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[03:16] <heathkid> anyone still awake?
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[03:42] <KT5TK-7> Hey guys! DL7AD and I just launched a mylar floater
[03:42] <KT5TK-7> Check APRS.fi for AF5LI-11
[03:43] <KT5TK-7> That's DL7AD's US callsign
[03:45] <KT5TK-7> We have 3 32 inch diameter party balloons with a total free lift of 6.5 grams
[03:45] <KT5TK-7> The payload is a Pecan Pico 3 with a AA Lithium battery
[03:46] <KT5TK-7> Payload weight 26.2 grams
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[04:03] <KT5TK-7> Check APRS.fi for AF5LI-11
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[04:39] <KT5TK-7> Hi nigelvh
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[04:57] <nigelvh> Howdy
[04:57] <nigelvh> How's things?
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[05:00] <KT5TK-7> Hi nigel, we've just launched a mylar floater
[05:00] <nigelvh> What is it flying?
[05:00] <KT5TK-7> Check APRS.fi for AF5LI-11
[05:01] <KT5TK-7> That's DL7AD's US callsign
[05:01] <KT5TK-7> We have 3 32 inch diameter party balloons with a total free lift of 6.5 grams
[05:01] <nigelvh> PecanPico3?
[05:02] <KT5TK-7> The payload is a Pecan Pico 3 with a AA Lithium battery
[05:02] <KT5TK-7> yes, I didn't code everything for PP4 yet
[05:02] <KT5TK-7> Payload weight 26.2 grams
[05:02] <DL7AD> good morning to europe
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[05:03] <nigelvh> Good morning from Washington.
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[05:06] <nigelvh> KT5TK-7, I didn't know you had the parts for PP4 yet.
[05:06] <nigelvh> I think the last I heard you had a board design done.
[05:07] <KT5TK-7> check out the pics on kt5tk.wordpress.com
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[05:13] <nigelvh> It's interesting you note that you're not happy with how fast digikey delivers to you. How long does it normally take?
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[05:20] <KT5TK-7> it takes digikey at least 3 days to ship to Houston. Sometimes I wait a week or more
[05:20] <nigelvh> Hmm. Normally my digikey orders get to me in about 2 days.
[05:20] <KT5TK-7> Mouser is usually here a day later. Even with ground shipping
[05:21] <KT5TK-7> If I order at 5 pm I receive Mouser stuff the next morning before noon on my desk
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[05:23] <KT5TK-7> We drive home now. bbl
[05:23] <nigelvh> Alrighty.
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[05:28] <ChrisstubbsM> Wow cheapo is still going for it!
[05:29] <ChrisstubbsM> The mobile tracker seems to have frozen with last night's coords
[05:37] <Upu> morning
[05:38] <nigelvh> Morning
[05:38] <Upu> yeah woke up and was wow I can still RX it
[05:38] <Upu> oh that said
[05:38] <Upu> carrier lost
[05:39] <Upu> yep
[05:39] <Upu> thats it
[05:39] <Upu> check battery voltage
[05:39] <Upu> not power saving ?
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[06:15] <Darkside> 20m is open from UK to australia
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[06:22] <DL7AD> good morning
[06:23] <chrisstubbsw> Upu was that cheapo down to carrier?
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[06:24] <x-f> good morning
[06:26] <chrisstubbsw> morning x-f
[06:30] <x-f> morning, Chris
[06:30] <chrisstubbsw> I would have expected a few more mins from cheapo. It died at pretty much 0.8v in testing
[06:31] <chrisstubbsw> then again that could just be a little error in the voltage divider
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[06:33] <x-f> did the powersaving fail or was this the expected battery life?
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[06:35] <chrisstubbsw> hm, power save could have failed
[06:35] <chrisstubbsw> but it was only about 8 hours in testing
[06:35] <chrisstubbsw> and it lasted what, 10:30 hours. Not bad!
[06:36] <chrisstubbsw> I think thats what I will have to change for the next flight. Sure i can squeeze some more life out of it
[06:36] <x-f> yep, float also looked good and stable
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[06:41] <UpuWork> no chrisstubbsw it just died
[06:41] <UpuWork> but 0.88v is about right
[06:41] <UpuWork> 3.3v ?
[06:41] <chrisstubbsw> Yeah
[06:41] <chrisstubbsw> How do you get your battery life so high?
[06:42] <chrisstubbsw> cycle the gps?
[06:42] <UpuWork> cyclic mode
[06:42] <UpuWork> will chat later need to do some soldering
[06:44] <chrisstubbsw> Okay cool yeah I have a new board to put together tonight, finish the software, then goa again on friday :P
[06:44] <craag> :)
[06:46] <craag> Great float Chris! Survived most of the sunrise ascent as well it looks like.
[06:46] <KT5TK> If you want to track more mylar floaters, then check out AF5LI-11 on aprs.fi
[06:46] <KT5TK> That's DL7AD's US callsign
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[06:47] <craag> Still ascending it looks like?
[06:47] <craag> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FAF5LI-11&timerange=86400&tail=86400
[06:48] <KT5TK> Yes, we launched at 0300 UTC
[06:49] <KT5TK> 3 mylar balloon (32") with a Pecan Pico 3 and one AA li battery
[06:50] <KT5TK> Predicted to go to Mexico
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[07:02] <arko> KT5TK: you around?
[07:03] <KT5TK> Sure
[07:03] <KT5TK> We have a mylar in the air
[07:03] <arko> so i noticed that my vcc line has a 482mhz signal
[07:03] <DL7AD> 3 of them.
[07:03] <arko> the choke maybe wrong
[07:03] <arko> or something
[07:03] <arko> it's flooding the crystal too
[07:04] <arko> if i stop transmitting the crystal is a perfect 30mhz
[07:05] <KT5TK> Do you have a circuit diagram how you connected what?
[07:05] <chrisstubbsw> Cheers craag
[07:05] <chrisstubbsw> I was worried the ascent was still a little fast, but worked out okay in the end
[07:06] <chrisstubbsw> Higher and more battery life is on the to do list, not sure if i can do both though :/
[07:06] <chrisstubbsw> Friday looks promising for going euro http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/17993_trj001.gif
[07:08] <arko> KT5TK: http://i.imgur.com/akVD2BK.png
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[07:09] <KT5TK> arko: first thing I'd try is to remove the 12 pf caps at the crystal
[07:10] <KT5TK> The Si4464 has internal caps
[07:10] <KT5TK> Is U$4 a crystal or a oscillator?
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[07:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> 'Morning
[07:12] <KT5TK> Pin 1 is labeled TRI which looks like an enable pin of an oscillator or what?
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[07:15] <LeoBodnar> Good morning!
[07:16] <KT5TK> Morning Leo
[07:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey LeoBodnar
[07:16] <chrisstubbsw> oh darn, the reason mobile tracker stopped working is my flight doc expired at midnight
[07:17] <chrisstubbsw> data download stops then too
[07:17] <craag> chrisstubbsw: You'd make a lot of people happy with that prediction, the Danes and the Latvians don't get much to track!
[07:17] <chrisstubbsw> Will give it a go!
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[07:19] <chrisstubbsw> Hi LeoBodnar and G0TDJ_Steve
[07:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey Chris. Left the kit on last night in case signal became stronger. Looks like it didn't
[07:22] <chrisstubbsw> Shame, the battery died about 6.30 this morning
[07:22] <KT5TK> Prediction for AF5LI-11: http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=b8b6eb723512d8e80a342fe4dfc8f68c2d47ca11
[07:22] <chrisstubbsw> not bad going, still have some more power saving to have a go at by the looks of things
[07:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> Tracker times are in UTC then
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[07:25] <arko> KT5TK: ignore that TRI
[07:25] <arko> that schematic is wrong
[07:25] <arko> i used it for the pads due to last minute change before sending off
[07:25] <KT5TK> is it a crystal?
[07:25] <arko> yes
[07:26] <arko> so i removed my antenna and all the noise is gone
[07:26] <arko> but im still at 482Mhz
[07:26] <arko> :/
[07:26] <arko> im going to solder up a new board with just a mcu and rf
[07:26] <arko> this is getting crazy
[07:27] <KT5TK> Do you have It seems like your Si4464 is not locked to the crystal
[07:27] <arko> It?
[07:27] <KT5TK> Do you have a 30 MHz external oscillator that you can tap in?
[07:28] <arko> no, just have the 30mhz crystal
[07:29] <KT5TK> then build an external oscillator with some cmos inverters and that crystal and feed that signal to Xout
[07:30] <KT5TK> Remove all the caps next to the crystal pins and use a 100 pf to feed your oscillator to Xout
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[07:31] <KT5TK> the 12pF caps will probably inhibit a proper swinging of the crystal, so remove them first
[07:31] <arko> hmm
[07:32] <arko> i'll give it a shot
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[07:49] <x-f> nice, looks like AF5LI-11 is floating, stable 6.4 km
[07:49] <fsphil> who's flying that?
[07:49] <Ugi_> didn't see that on the tracker
[07:49] <Ugi_> mornin' all
[07:50] <x-f> fsphil, KT5TK and DL7AD
[07:50] <fsphil> aah
[07:50] <fsphil> must do the spacenear thingy
[07:50] <DL7AD> good morning
[07:50] <KT5TK> Yes, seems we have reached float.
[07:51] <x-f> Ugi_, http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FAF5LI-11
[07:51] <KT5TK> Maybe someone can try and put AF5LI-11 on spacenear.us?
[07:52] <fsphil> just doing that now
[07:52] <fsphil> there you are
[07:52] <Ugi_> thanks x-f not seen that one before
[07:52] <fsphil> don't think I can import historical data
[07:53] <KT5TK> Thanks fsphil!
[07:53] <KT5TK> NP it'll show the float phase
[07:56] <LeoBodnar> arko KT5TK I think Silabs does not expect you to have any loading caps on xtal. they use internal varicap control
[07:58] <KT5TK> That's what I tried to tell arko
[07:59] <KT5TK> LeoBodnar: How do you connect your TCXO to the Si chip?
[07:59] <LeoBodnar> Via a DC blocking cap.
[07:59] <KT5TK> to which pin of the Si?
[08:00] <LeoBodnar> My VCXO is swinging only from 0V to 0.7V
[08:00] <LeoBodnar> XIN
[08:00] <KT5TK> interesting. I could only get it to work on the Xout pin
[08:01] <KT5TK> I currently use a 100pF DC blocking cap
[08:01] <KT5TK> and a 27 MHz VCXO
[08:02] <LeoBodnar> http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/Si4464-63-61-60.pdf Page 38: "A TCXO or external signal source can easily be used in place of a conventional XTAL and should be connected to the XIN pin."
[08:03] <LeoBodnar> Or page 14 "Production Test Conditions: External reference signal (XOUT) = 1.0 VPP at 30 MHz, centered around 0.8 VDC."
[08:03] <KT5TK> Yes, but I have found an application advisory that definitely says couple it to the Xout pin.
[08:04] <KT5TK> and that worked for me
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[08:04] <LeoBodnar> It's OK to be schizophrenic, it's Silabs.
[08:04] <KT5TK> :)
[08:06] <LeoBodnar> You might be right but it works for me on XIN. I guess the classical biasing circuit is still active so you just inject signal either before or after the invertor opamp
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[08:15] Nick change: DL7AD -> AF5LI
[08:15] <HixWork> moaning all. Lost B-8 and Cheapo6 then :/
[08:16] <fsphil> cheapo6 seems to have run out of juice
[08:17] <fsphil> AF5LI: altitude seemed to go to 0 for a moment there
[08:17] <HixWork> hmmm, thought B-8 would have gone on for a good while or was it an alt / horizon thing?
[08:17] <chrisstubbsW> I need a helicopter, aa battery, a long stick, and some tape :P
[08:17] <fsphil> HixWork: it splashed down
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[08:17] <AF5LI> fsphil: yes i also wondered.
[08:18] <AF5LI> fsphil but we (kt5tk and i) do not know the reason for that error
[08:19] <HixWork> oh yeah, it was low when lost
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[08:22] <LeoBodnar> good moaning HixWork
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[08:24] <LeoBodnar> Not sure what happened to B-8 - think Helium loss. Too stable a descent
[08:24] <LeoBodnar> -0.6m/s all the way down
[08:25] <gonzo__> there was a nice step. Assume a weather front
[08:25] <gonzo__> it didn't seem to coencode with passing the coast
[08:25] <gonzo__> coencide
[08:25] <gonzo__> coincide
[08:25] <gonzo__> (will get there eventually)
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[08:28] <AF5LI> gn
[08:29] <LeoBodnar> Helium loss at apogee but still floating due to the Sun heat. Sun goes down envelope cools, stretches - immediate step down. Air inside cools, lift becomes negative - descent. That's one of the theories
[08:29] <LeoBodnar> gn!
[08:29] <LeoBodnar> *shrinks
[08:29] <HixWork> bugger!
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[08:36] <gonzo__> LeoBodnar, I did wonder about the cooling, but it was still at high sun. and it seemed to be a discrete step in the alt
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[08:37] <Rob_M0DTS> morning... CHEAPO frequency?
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[08:37] <UpuWork> its dead Rob
[08:38] <gonzo__> would be supprised that it would be such a clean and rapis change in level. (I have no real knowledge, just an engineers hand waving feel for it)
[08:38] <LeoBodnar> Run out of battery Rob
[08:38] <Rob_M0DTS> aha..
[08:38] <Rob_M0DTS> thought ther emight be hope on that one too from here!
[08:38] <Rob_M0DTS> no sign of any signal from B8
[08:39] <LeoBodnar> I think it was the Sun stopping heating the envelope so it shrink which rapidly reduced its volume
[08:39] <LeoBodnar> But air inside was still warm
[08:39] <LeoBodnar> Thanks for checking Rob_M0DTS ! :)
[08:40] <Rob_M0DTS> you never know what can happen!
[08:41] <LeoBodnar> indeed!
[08:43] <KT5TK> I've posted some pictures from the AF5LI-11 launch: http://kt5tk.wordpress.com
[08:45] <AF5LI> KT5TK cant see it yet
[08:45] <fsphil> that's a huge CRT
[08:53] <LeoBodnar> KT5TK: what is the weight of the balloon itself?
[08:54] <LeoBodnar> or AF5LI ?
[08:54] <AF5LI> we dont know
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[08:54] <KT5TK> We've bought it filled with He. so I don't know exactly
[08:54] <AF5LI> we bought the balloon filled with helium
[08:55] <KT5TK> We only get 32 inch balloons, not 36" like in the UK
[08:56] <KT5TK> I'll have to bring a bunch of large mylars when I'm at the conference
[08:59] <fsphil> if we where not in london we could have done a launch
[08:59] <KT5TK> I'm in the UK the whole week before the conference
[09:00] <LeoBodnar> OK, thanks for the info. Our foil balloons weigh 37g
[09:00] <LeoBodnar> I don't believe they are Mylar, I think they are Nylon
[09:00] <KT5TK> I'll check the weight when I get a hold on an empty one
[09:01] <KT5TK> possible
[09:01] <LeoBodnar> 5µm Aluminised Mylar film weighs 6.8g/m^2
[09:01] <LeoBodnar> 0.9µm film is 1.3g/m^2
[09:03] <KT5TK> We were almost thinking about launching a He filled trash bag today.
[09:04] <KT5TK> We actually launched a small trash bag as direction finder balloon right before the launch
[09:04] <LeoBodnar> I have guessed! Try condom if you can seal it :)
[09:05] <gonzo__> the free lift of them is minimal
[09:06] <KT5TK> May be enough for the small trackers we have today
[09:06] <gonzo__> about 10g FL when inflated to burst
[09:06] <gonzo__> I know of one that was sent up with a radar reflector just for a laugh
[09:07] <KT5TK> Maybe there are different sizes
[09:07] <gonzo__> small/av/liar
[09:09] <KT5TK> It's good to know the approximate lift. Thanks for the info.
[09:09] <gonzo__> I asked the question a whiloe ago. no-one would admit to having tried it. So someone had to!
[09:10] <KT5TK> I still wonder if you could get a trash bag to float...
[09:10] <gonzo__> 10G with He is just at burst. So would not gibve mucg altutude before coming down
[09:11] <KT5TK> Yeah, condoms are just good for fun experiments
[09:11] <gonzo__> we use to fill them with methane/ethane as kids
[09:11] <gonzo__> bin bags that is
[09:11] <gonzo__> but suspect they were acting more as thermal balloons
[09:12] <KT5TK> I'm talking about the big ones where you collect the garden trash
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[09:12] <KT5TK> You can get thin, but rigid ones today
[09:15] <gonzo__> these were so thin you could see through. like a supermarket carrier bag. useless as bin bags but great to fly (and with a burning tail in our case. Well we were about 10yrs old
[09:18] Nick change: Guest32294 -> nick_
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[09:24] <LeoBodnar> I have tried it but it escaped and as soon as it touched the false ceiling it has exploded - I think static electricity killed it
[09:25] <KT5TK> Did you use hydrogen?
[09:25] <LeoBodnar> Standard inflation size for UK condoms is 25 litres but many go to 40 litres or more
[09:26] <LeoBodnar> The weight is less then 3 grams
[09:26] <LeoBodnar> Helium
[09:27] <LeoBodnar> 25 litres = 25 grams of lift
[09:29] <LeoBodnar> I have 13 gram payload so I was going to just chuck it up and see what happens. I thought it would have reached 40 litre size by 8000m or so - i can't remember now
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[09:49] <gonzo__> some real research has been done there LeoBodnar
[09:49] <gonzo__> (I knew lots would have tried it, but no-one would admit!)
[09:50] <gonzo__> I would term condoms as 'party balloons'. As they are used for entertaining!
[09:50] <gonzo__> and fun
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[10:01] <HixWork> they used to be included in RAF ejector seat liferafts, as emergency ater storage devices.
[10:01] <HixWork> *water
[10:04] <LeoBodnar> There was a bit of an oO moment when guys found a pack of condoms on my desk and shreds of a ruptured condoms around the office.
[10:05] <LeoBodnar> On Monday
[10:05] <Willdude123> Hi
[10:05] <Willdude123> At Bournemouth Airport.
[10:05] <mattbrejza> at least you also hadnt split yoghurt everywhere
[10:06] <LeoBodnar> lol
[10:06] <fsphil> lol
[10:07] <gonzo__> only down the raod from me Willdude123
[10:07] <HixWork> is something special appearing there today Willdude123?
[10:07] <HixWork> ah, no you are going on holiday aren't you
[10:08] <mattbrejza> getting his last fix of irc for potentially a week or so
[10:08] <HixWork> heh
[10:08] <fsphil> quick, kick him
[10:08] <HixWork> cruel but highly amusing
[10:09] <fsphil> hope Turkey is nice
[10:09] <HixWork> gonzo__, that recovery could be tricky :D wathc out for Ursus Maritimus
[10:11] <Willdude123> Thanks
[10:11] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: have fun
[10:11] <Willdude123> If you see Upu, tell him to email me.
[10:11] <Willdude123> Well
[10:11] <Willdude123> If he has news on the ubx
[10:11] <Willdude123> I may or may not be able to acess IRC there.
[10:12] <gonzo__> no plan to recover. Just give it it's freedom
[10:14] <Willdude123> Anyway, this wifi is free only for an hour, so I best talk about something interesting.
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[10:25] <ibanezmatt13> Morning :)
[10:26] <ibanezmatt13> ping UpuWork
[10:26] <Willdude123> Morning
[10:26] <ibanezmatt13> Morning Will
[10:28] <Willdude123> I'll prbably be cut off in a bit, the wifi here is only free fpr an hour. So if I don't get to go on irc, have a good couple of weeks.
[10:29] <Willdude123> Does griffonbot have a message feature,just wamt to make sire Upu emails me if I'm not here.
[10:29] <Willdude123> *sure
[10:29] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: I'm using your Eagle library to draw some schematics but I'm a little confused with the pin numbering on the ATMEGA328P. For instance, in Eagle it says pin 21 is GND but on other diagrams it's pin 22. And I can't work out what PB0, PB1 etc mean. Is there somewhere that explains this?
[10:30] <x-f> Will, email him you first?
[10:30] <Willdude123> Huh
[10:30] <Willdude123> Not sure I have his email.
[10:31] <Willdude123> Will check.
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[10:31] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: the PB0 pins are the data i/o pins the relevant data sheet (large pdf) will tell you what the do.
[10:32] <ibanezmatt13> Ah ok, thanks mfa298 I'll have a look
[10:33] <Willdude123> Amyway.
[10:33] <mfa298> datasheet should also tell you which pin(s) are ground. It's possible it's different between different variations of the chip
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[10:33] <Willdude123> ttfn peoples
[10:33] <Willdude123> Going through check in and security now.
[10:34] <HixWork> good holiday Willdude123
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[10:37] <LeoBodnar> Always read datasheets. They will get you through life better than anything else
[10:37] <LeoBodnar> RTFD
[10:39] <Jonathan_G4KLX> What about Silicon Labs ones? :-)
[10:39] <HixWork> LeoBodnar, we used to put a note on 3D drawings at McLaren for rush jobs MTFD :)
[10:39] <HixWork> *2D
[10:40] <mfa298> learning how to quickly get the relevant information from a data sheet is a good skill to have
[10:42] <LeoBodnar> If you use Silabs products than it's your own fault :-)
[10:44] <HixWork> cool - got octave running on wirk 'puter using cygwin
[10:47] <UpuWork> Willdude123 got the GPS module will test tonight
[10:47] <UpuWork> ibanezmatt13 http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/image/data/tutorial/arduino-hardcore/atmega328-tqfp-arduino-pinout.jpg
[10:48] <Willdude123> Nice
[10:48] <UpuWork> http://pinout-circuits-images.dz863.com/84/ATMEGA88P.jpg
[10:48] <ibanezmatt13> Just what I wanted, thanks UpuWork
[10:48] <Willdude123> Sat in the pub. Need something productive to do.
[10:49] <HixWork> drink
[10:49] <Willdude123> hmm
[10:49] <Brace> beeeeeerrrrr
[10:49] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: What is the Arduino_Sheildno_Silk?
[10:49] <Willdude123> Not beer
[10:49] <ibanezmatt13> on your Habduino schematic UpuWork
[10:50] <Willdude123> I know, I'll read the UBX datasheet.
[10:50] <chrisstubbsW> Im not a its good stuff Willdude123
[10:50] <chrisstubbsW> No idea where the start of that sentance came from
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[10:52] <HixWork> thats a cool ref pic UpuWork
[10:52] <UpuWork> is the sheild outline with the header on it ibanezmatt13
[10:52] <UpuWork> delete it, switch to board mode and see whats goine
[10:52] <UpuWork> gone
[10:52] <Willdude123> Thanks UpuWork, in advance for your testing.
[10:52] <Willdude123> If my parents weren't looking i'd have slipped a tenner in there.
[10:52] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: Just loading board mode now
[10:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Is CHEAPO still flying and trackable ?
[10:54] <HixWork> dead apparently
[10:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> wondered seeing as it wasn't logged since early hours
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[10:57] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13: I was wondering, how do you manage to tx on the raspberry pi to both the ntx and the ubx?
[10:58] <ibanezmatt13> You just connect them on the same line. Ublox RX connects to the Pi's TX line; NTX2 connects to the TX line too
[11:01] <Willdude123> So you end up txing the ubx instructions?
[11:01] <Willdude123> Over the radio?
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[11:01] <HixWork> my server appears to be having some issues today
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[11:02] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: I think jumping in to making PCBs with ATMEGAs and Ublox chips may be a bit above me at the moment. I should probably begin with making my own small break out boards for sensors and stuff.
[11:02] <mattbrejza> if you really care about sending the instructoins over the radio there is a reasonably easy 'fix', but in the end it doesnt make much difference
[11:03] <fsphil> the gps stuff will be too fast to have much effect
[11:03] <fsphil> just be a blip
[11:03] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13: Are you building an arduino tracker too?
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[11:04] <mattbrejza> http://i.imgur.com/1mKOKE3.png this is what i drew a while ago so the gps can ignore radio rtty
[11:04] <fsphil> ground it during gps comms?
[11:04] <ibanezmatt13> Sort of Willdude123. I'm gonna try to make my own tracker on a PCB using the ATMEGA328p. Just looking into understanding how to design the actual PCB :)
[11:05] <mattbrejza> hi-z when gps, otherwise set to high (serial idles high right?)
[11:05] <fsphil> yea the stop bit is high
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[11:05] <Willdude123> Isn't it best to o it woth an uno and breadboard first?
[11:05] <fsphil> uno is just an avr chip
[11:06] <fsphil> you can do it all on one board without much extra work
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[11:06] <mattbrejza> tbh if he posts his schematic here people will point out any errors he might have missed due to skipping breadboarding
[11:06] <fsphil> yea
[11:06] <fsphil> if I ever finish a board that's my plan :)
[11:07] <mattbrejza> whats currently waiting to be finsihed?
[11:07] <fsphil> I've started a couple but never got much past the schematic
[11:07] <mfa298> you could do a similar trick with the ntx2 by connecting it's enable pin to a gpio and using that to turn the ntx2 off when doing gps.
[11:07] <Ugi_> Willdude123: would you like a copy of the Eagle file for my Arduino-compatible tracker? It interfaces to UPU's GPS breakout rather than taking the chip itself but it works
[11:07] <Ugi_> all at 3v3 so no level shifting required
[11:07] <fsphil> a blip is probably better than switching off the ntx2
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[11:08] <LeoBodnar> mattbrejza: classic. I use similar thing to drive H-bridge PWM inputs from one MCU PWM output. HIgh-Z the one that you need and drive on that you don't low or high :)
[11:08] <mfa298> of go the daveake route and run the gps via an alternative bus (i2c?)
[11:08] <daveake> yes i2c
[11:08] <mattbrejza> who needs multiplexers anyway...
[11:09] <LeoBodnar> true
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[11:12] <HixWork> anyone got any good course material for Octave? I'm feeling inspired now I can play at work
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[11:25] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: I've been looking at the NEO board. It's a little confusing
[11:26] <Darkside> which board?
[11:27] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork linked me to an Eagle board file he made which used a Ublox Neo
[11:27] <ibanezmatt13> Every board diagram I seem to look at is confusing. There's so much going on
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[11:32] <Willdude123> Ugi_: Sorry missed that, just had lunch. Yeah I'd quite like to have a look at it.
[11:33] <Willdude123> Don't have any software to view it though.
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[11:40] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, one good tip is to selecte the eye icon and then click on a track. It will highlght everything connected
[11:40] <HixWork> you'll probably want the NEO6 datasheet too
[11:40] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok, thanks
[11:41] <ibanezmatt13> that's much clearer, thanks for the top
[11:41] <ibanezmatt13> tip*
[11:42] <HixWork> here's som e more useful resource http://amtek.wordpress.com/2010/10/24/eagle-tutorial/
[11:43] <ibanezmatt13> On the ATMEGA328P, does AVCC go to VCC?
[11:43] <Darkside> depends
[11:43] <Darkside> generally., yes
[11:43] <Darkside> do you want to use the ADCs?
[11:44] <ibanezmatt13> nah don't think so
[11:44] <Darkside> then just wire AVCC to VCC
[11:44] <Darkside> that'll be fine
[11:44] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks
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[11:44] <Darkside> if you want to use the ADCs, the general recommendation is to connct VCC to AVCC via a low pass filter
[11:44] <HixWork> here's 2 more http://goo.gl/HHNCOc this one is for creating your own footprints [essential] http://goo.gl/FouaEY
[11:45] <Darkside> as AVCC forms the reference for the ADCs
[11:45] <cyclops> hi all!
[11:45] <ibanezmatt13> I see. Will it say all this on the datasheet?
[11:45] <Darkside> probably
[11:46] <HixWork> yes, more than likely
[11:46] <HixWork> hi cyclops
[11:46] <cyclops> Whats up this morning?
[11:46] <HixWork> afternoon ;p
[11:46] <ibanezmatt13> I'll load it up then. Just looking to see what to do with the ADC pins 6 and 7
[11:47] <cyclops> well in spain till 2pm is morning :P
[11:47] <LeoBodnar> This is rubbish. Never do footprints from scaled images.
[11:47] <HixWork> heh cyclops i see wherre you are coming from
[11:47] <ibanezmatt13> cyclops: warm down here in Almeria :)
[11:47] <HixWork> DNSTFD
[11:47] <cyclops> too in Granada
[11:48] <cyclops> Ere you enjoying the trip¿
[11:48] <cyclops> *are
[11:48] <HixWork> Ere works too [if in london] :)
[11:48] <ibanezmatt13> Would I leave the ADC inputs open or grounded?
[11:48] <LeoBodnar> Hard dimensions only and double-check with callipers if datasheet has Chinese names on it
[11:49] <cyclops> Well I now have things to do
[11:49] <cyclops> My Porexpan sphere just arrived
[11:49] <HixWork> can you not scan it with a ruler there too? LeoBodnar
[11:49] <cyclops> Ill have to shield and put the cameras in
[11:50] <HixWork> I much prefer the spanish for that - Poliestireno expandido
[11:50] <fsphil> nice
[11:51] <cyclops> Both words are accepted here
[11:51] <cyclops> But its commonly known as "Corcho"
[11:51] <HixWork> that sounds way better :)
[11:51] <ibanezmatt13> Darkside: With the ADC pins 6 and 7, should they be brought to ground if unused or should I just leave them open? I can't find it on the datasheet
[11:51] <HixWork> I meant as opposed tothe english cyclops
[11:51] <HixWork> whats corcho?
[11:51] <HixWork> sound colloquial
[11:51] <cyclops> Whine bottle tap
[11:51] <HixWork> *sounds]
[11:52] <HixWork> ahh
[11:52] <LeoBodnar> Question: What are wellies called in Spain?
[11:52] <HixWork> cork
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[11:52] <Darkside> ibanezmatt13: leave them open
[11:52] <ibanezmatt13> thank you
[11:52] <Ugi> Willdude123: sorry - my session did something funny there.
[11:52] <cyclops> wellies? Google traductor says Botas de Agua
[11:53] <Ugi> give me a mo' & i'll upload the boards somewhere.
[11:53] <gonzo__> I assume wellies would be called - Something that people further north wear
[11:53] <HixWork> boots of water
[11:53] <cyclops> yeah
[11:53] <gonzo__> have suffer that effect
[11:53] <gonzo__> suffered
[11:53] <HixWork> botas des ingleses
[11:53] <gonzo__> or ingress
[11:53] <HixWork> more pat
[11:54] <HixWork> apt even
[11:54] <gonzo__> pat thinks it's apt?
[11:54] <HixWork> dos he / she
[11:54] <cyclops> Spanish is sometimes difficult to translate
[11:54] <HixWork> spelling winning me
[11:54] <gonzo__> two he-she's ?
[11:55] <HixWork> Dios :D
[11:55] <cyclops> Virgen
[11:55] <gonzo__> I never touched her!
[11:55] <HixWork> Giuseppe
[11:55] <gonzo__> lunch. So you have half an hour break from my disjoint ramblings
[11:56] <HixWork> snap :D
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[11:56] <cyclops> The nap was invented in Spain :D
[11:56] <ibanezmatt13> ATMEGA328P - AREF goes to VCC?
[11:56] <Darkside> yep
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[11:57] <HixWork> grr damn server
[11:57] <ibanezmatt13> wish I could find the relevant datasheet.
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[11:58] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, https://www.dropbox.com/s/a5p6bf0rli9u10g/ATmega328P%20Data%20Sheet.pdf
[11:58] <Steve_2E0VET> Noticed foils mentioned on here a lot, will the predictor predict where these will land or is it a case of cross your fingers and hope you will get it back
[11:58] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks HixWork. Does it explain what to do with each pin like on the Ublox datasheet?
[11:58] <cyclops> Guys do you use any type of foam to cover the exterior of the Poliestileno Expandido¿
[11:59] <Darkside> Steve_2E0VET: the problem with foils is they generally leak, not burst
[11:59] <cyclops> As its pretty hard
[11:59] <Darkside> so they could descent at a very slow rate
[11:59] <Darkside> the predictor only works when you know the ascent, descent rates and burst alt
[11:59] <Darkside> and with foils... you don't
[11:59] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, that ojnes a biut pants https://www.dropbox.com/s/2dv62nlk20tbch4/ATMegaSpecSheet.pdf is good but not specific for the 328P
[12:00] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
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[12:00] <cyclops> HixWork: Its advised to add exteriour leds to the payload?
[12:00] <cyclops> So it seems a UFO when landed
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[12:01] <HixWork> cyclops, not many do, though it has been discussed, buzzeers too
[12:01] <cyclops> Dave encouraged me to use beeps instead of buzzers, as you cant locate last
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[12:04] <cyclops> the cheapo in spacenearus is designed to float isnt it?
[12:04] <Ugi> Willdude123: http://ugilabs.co.uk/Scrap/HAB.zip
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[12:05] <HixWork> cyclops, that was chrisstubbsW's intention
[12:05] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, here is your world of info http://www.atmel.com/devices/ATMEGA328P.aspx?tab=documents
[12:05] <cyclops> So probably he will loose the payload?
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[12:05] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, been looking at that. Loads of good info
[12:05] <HixWork> cyclops, yes
[12:05] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, http://goo.gl/T7hi24 is the daddy of specsheets >60pages
[12:06] <HixWork> >600 sorry
[12:06] <ibanezmatt13> been looking at that too
[12:06] <ibanezmatt13> huge ammount of information
[12:06] <cyclops> I hope i recover mine
[12:06] <HixWork> pg 242 for ADC
[12:07] <HixWork> cyclops, generally latex are intended to be recovered and picos / floaters not. I'm guessing you plan on a camera payload?
[12:07] <cyclops> Yes
[12:08] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: In Eagle there are loads of crystals. Which crystal should I use for the ATMEGA328P?
[12:08] <ibanezmatt13> TQFP pakcage
[12:08] <cyclops> Today I have to shield the sphere put the camera and roll it down stairs
[12:08] <HixWork> in which case I too hope you recover. Maybe look at SMS tracker as backup
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[12:08] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, one you can buy...
[12:09] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[12:09] <ibanezmatt13> So no particular type?
[12:09] <HixWork> https://github.com/Upuaut/Eagle-Libraries has parts that are commonly used in HAB
[12:10] <HixWork> though I learnt it is good to get a specsheet and manually make your own footprints
[12:10] <HixWork> I use through-hole xtals, only as i have a load of them
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[12:10] <ibanezmatt13> I'll experiment, thanks for the help. Gotta go, dad wants laptop
[12:11] <ibanezmatt13> Bye :
[12:11] <ibanezmatt13> :)
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[12:12] <HixWork> lunch bbl
[12:12] <LeoBodnar> Atmel's SAM3U datasheet is 1200 pages long and it does not even tell you anything about the processor itself (ARM core has its own datasheet)
[12:13] <cyclops> Que aproveche HixWork
[12:13] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: welcome to the world of arm
[12:14] <mattbrejza> and then there is all the AMBA datasheets if you really are about that bit
[12:14] <LeoBodnar> I know...
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[12:16] <LeoBodnar> And IAR/Keil $$$$$ thing
[12:17] <Laurenceb> ewwww
[12:17] <Laurenceb> gnu arm embedded ftw
[12:17] <mattbrejza> with eclipse IDE :P
[12:17] <Laurenceb> eww
[12:17] <Laurenceb> java
[12:17] <LeoBodnar> Life's too short
[12:18] <LeoBodnar> Java's only good in your cup
[12:19] <LeoBodnar> I'm considering ditching Microchip if they push their Java based IDE
[12:19] Action: Laurenceb uses stm32 for everything
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[12:19] <LeoBodnar> X-MPLAB or whatever it is called
[12:19] <Laurenceb> https://launchpad.net/gcc-arm-embedded
[12:19] <LeoBodnar> STM32 does not have HS USB sadly
[12:20] <Laurenceb> ah
[12:20] <Laurenceb> you can add external PHY
[12:21] <LeoBodnar> want embedded PHY
[12:21] <Laurenceb> i need to try this out - http://ugfx.org/
[12:23] <LeoBodnar> Does Launchpad store all the data n their servers?
[12:23] <Laurenceb> dunno
[12:25] <Laurenceb> http://ugfx.org/gwin <- nice
[12:25] <LeoBodnar> I want to be able to work offline. For when the doomsday cometh
[12:26] <Laurenceb> oh got you
[12:26] <Laurenceb> sure launchpad is a download site
[12:28] <LeoBodnar> Am I mixing them up with RED-smthing?
[12:28] <Laurenceb> prob
[12:29] <LeoBodnar> TI calls their Cortex platform "Launchpad"
[12:29] <LeoBodnar> It's a big mess in here in my scull
[12:29] <Laurenceb> oh
[12:29] <Laurenceb> yeah i forgot about that
[12:30] <LeoBodnar> Will Cortex-M0 kill 8 bit market?
[12:30] <Laurenceb> already has
[12:31] <LeoBodnar> Arduinos are still everywhere.
[12:31] <craag> The KL25z M0+ board with the mbed library is an arduino killer
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[12:32] <LeoBodnar> ARDKLR
[12:32] <craag> Only reason I'm not using one right now is it's quite a big board, put one on a Pro Mini-sized board and I'd buy 20 just to try..
[12:32] <mattbrejza> they would haveto call it arduM0+ to have any chance of being an arduino killer
[12:33] <LeoBodnar> Inertia kills progress unfortunately
[12:33] <LeoBodnar> Arduinos I mean
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[12:34] <LeoBodnar> Killerino
[12:34] <LeoBodnar> Cotexino?
[12:34] <LeoBodnar> * Cortexino
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[12:35] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[12:35] <Laurenceb> http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/LPC1112FDH20%2F102:5/LPC1112FDH20%2F102:5-ND/3430856
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[12:37] <Laurenceb> http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/LPC810M021FN8FP/568-10182-5-ND/3925130
[12:37] <Laurenceb> very cheap now
[12:38] <Laurenceb> http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/STM32F050G4U6/497-13619-ND/3947371
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[12:46] <LeoBodnar> Wow Laurenceb I hope they are still making some money on them
[12:46] <Lunar_LanderU> hey LeoBodnar, good flight
[12:47] <LeoBodnar> Yes, not bad :)
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[12:52] <Laurenceb> needs a gugar cube in future
[12:52] <Laurenceb> *sugar
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[13:03] <x-f> ice cube for delayed launch and sugar cube for delayed landing
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[13:11] <HixWork> cracias cyclops
[13:11] <HixWork> *Gracias
[13:13] <HixWork> Guys what is the reason for all the animosity towards ATMegas?
[13:13] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_%28programming_language%29#Example_2
[13:13] <Laurenceb> ^inpressive
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[13:15] <fsphil> animosity?
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[13:16] <HixWork> there seems to be quite a bit of animosity towards arduino based stuff, or is it just the dev boards not the ATMegas?
[13:17] <fsphil> more the arduino software I suspect
[13:17] <qyx_> cos its architecture from '90 for the same price as arms
[13:17] <fsphil> vastly simpler to use than arm chips
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[13:18] <HixWork> oh the [sh]IDE they use
[13:18] <fsphil> yea. it's quite poor. and to rub salt in the wound, it's written in java
[13:19] <HixWork> is it a step change to move to 32 bit chips? All can be programmed in C i guess?
[13:19] <fsphil> aye
[13:19] <HixWork> just no real need for current HAB projects
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[13:19] <fsphil> overkill
[13:19] <fsphil> though so is an atmega really
[13:19] <Lunar_LanderU> I recently read a comparison of PIC, AVR and some TI chip
[13:19] <fsphil> the attiny could probably do the job nicely
[13:20] <HixWork> apart from maybe EclipseCAM or Stabilotron++
[13:20] <Darkside> i can't gt to sleep
[13:20] <Darkside> i think about the implications
[13:20] <Lunar_LanderU> the guy came to the conclusion, that the PIC is the best for price and what I/O it offers
[13:20] <Darkside> of diving into deep
[13:20] <Darkside> and possibly the complications
[13:20] <Lunar_LanderU> diving yourself or making a submarine?
[13:20] <qyx_> you can also still use pentium2/3 computers, today's processors are just overkill
[13:20] <Darkside> Lunar_LanderU: sorry, joke
[13:20] <Lunar_LanderU> no because it is quite logical
[13:20] <fsphil> PICs C compiler is a joke
[13:20] <Lunar_LanderU> Auguste Piccard flew into the stratosphere for the first time
[13:21] <Darkside> Lunar_LanderU: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY7S6EgSlCI
[13:21] <Darkside> Men at work - Overkill
[13:21] <Lunar_LanderU> and then went on making his world record submarine
[13:21] <Lunar_LanderU> which was some sort of deep sea balloon
[13:21] <Lunar_LanderU> Darkside: thanks, blocked by GEMA for germany
[13:21] <gonzo__> that sounds like a committeee design
[13:21] <Darkside> lol
[13:22] <Lunar_LanderU> yea, it had ballast and petrol instead of helium
[13:22] <Darkside> Lunar_LanderU: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtAma-2uK_Y
[13:22] <Darkside> how about that on
[13:22] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[13:22] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[13:22] <Lunar_LanderU> never watched scrubs before actually
[13:23] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks :)
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[13:23] <Lunar_LanderU> actually
[13:23] <Lunar_LanderU> I don't know if Piccard could make his submarine like that today
[13:23] <HixWork> reading the spec sheet for the sample ATxmega128A3U I blagged
[13:23] <Lunar_LanderU> i.e. you could valve petrol to sink faster, up to 40 cubic meters
[13:24] <Lunar_LanderU> I think nowadays, people wouldn't like it if someone dumps that much petrol into the sea
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[13:25] <HixWork> what does "CRC-16 (CRC-CCITT) and CRC-32 (IEEE® 802.3) generator" mean? It can generate its own in hardware rather than a function to do it
[13:27] <KT5TK> Good morning!
[13:28] <KT5TK> Seems like AF5LI-11 has survived the daylight.
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[13:35] <Lunar_LanderU> HixWork: I think that means that one wouldn't have to burden the CPU with calculating checksums, as there is a hardware segment to it
[13:35] <Lunar_LanderU> this is how I would understand it
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[13:37] <HixWork> thats what i thought
[13:37] <mattbrejza> i assume the thing has DMA?
[13:38] <HixWork> "Four-channel DMA controller"
[13:38] <HixWork> dynamic memory allocation yes?
[13:38] <mattbrejza> yea, so the DMA is used to shift data in and out of the crc unit
[13:38] <HixWork> right
[13:39] <mattbrejza> direct memory access
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[13:50] <ibanezmatt13> Anybody know what I should do to pin 29 on the ATMEGA328P? It's the reset pin
[13:50] <ibanezmatt13> Do I tie it to VCC via a 10k resistor?
[13:51] <mfa298> Not checked the datasheet but 10k resistor between vcc and reset. You then connect reset to ground briefly to reset.
[13:51] <mattbrejza> im fairly sure its internally pulled up (so you dont have to do anything)
[13:51] <mattbrejza> but connecting it to the programmer helsp
[13:52] <ibanezmatt13> if it is already pulled up, would putting a 10k in anyway cause any issues?
[13:52] <mattbrejza> na
[13:52] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks
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[13:52] <mattbrejza> you can always not solder that part
[13:53] <ibanezmatt13> yeah suppose so.
[13:53] <ibanezmatt13> ping HixWork
[13:57] <navrac-work> I've always put a 10k in to vcc myself
[13:57] <UpuWork> me too
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[13:57] <ibanezmatt13> I'm making a schematic for the ATMEGA328P and I'm looking at this as a reference https://www.dropbox.com/s/l4v29ha18opitp0/neo.png. In that schematic, what is going on around the bottom right corner?
[13:57] <UpuWork> I heard it was internally pulled up
[13:58] <navrac-work> hi upu
[13:58] Nick change: daveake1 -> daveake
[13:58] <UpuWork> hey navrac-work
[13:58] <UpuWork> been a while
[13:58] <navrac-work> been a while - I've been flat out at work and trying to move house at the same time so haven't been around for monthsw
[13:58] <ibanezmatt13> All I've done for VCC, AVCC and AREF is connect them all to VCC. I've not used any caps...
[13:58] <Lunar_LanderU> I once read a tutorial on a protoboard arduino, to be programmed via FTDI, and they said you'd need a 0.47 uF cap on the RESET line
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[13:59] <Lunar_LanderU> ibanezmatt13: don't connect AREF
[13:59] <fsphil> you'll want a cap between vcc and gnd near each vcc pin
[13:59] <UpuWork> ibanezmatt13 the caps are decoupling caps to prevent
[13:59] <fsphil> and yea leave AREF disconnected
[13:59] <Lunar_LanderU> that is for any external reference voltage for the ADC
[13:59] <jiffe98> harder to find a good launch point this time around :\
[13:59] <fsphil> a cap between AREF and GND is ok
[13:59] <navrac-work> Discovered my new house is 5m ASL, listed and in an area of outstanding natural beauty and the conservation officer wont even permit a 1/4 wave....
[13:59] <mattbrejza> Lunar_LanderU: i think tjhe arduino needs a series cap on reset
[13:59] <Lunar_LanderU> I think you can even fry the ADC if you connect a voltage without specifying that in software
[13:59] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[13:59] <fsphil> navrac-work: ooch
[14:00] <fsphil> navrac-work: stealth mode!
[14:00] <UpuWork> noise from the power supply
[14:00] <navrac-work> yep....
[14:00] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right. It said if unused tie to vcc... So I don't need anything on AREF, and I need a cap between every VCC and ground including AVCC?
[14:00] <jiffe98> do you guys typically move your launch points around to try to get it to land it a good area?
[14:00] <UpuWork> basically it stops any AC on the DC line
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[14:00] <daveake> rarely jiffe98
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[14:00] <daveake> The permission is for a particular site
[14:00] <jiffe98> gotcha
[14:01] <navrac-work> looking for a hydraulic mast that I can bury - or go for soemthing thunderbirds like where a rotary clothes drier magically opens up into a dish, raises 10m above the ground and then tilts
[14:01] <daveake> Once or twice I've swapped to someone else's site, and once we managed to get the site changedwith the CAA a couple of days before launch
[14:01] <UpuWork> ibanezmatt13 yes and it nees to be close to the pin on the actual board
[14:01] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: Ok, thanks.
[14:01] <ibanezmatt13> What cap value should I choose UpuWork ?
[14:01] <UpuWork> 100nF is fine
[14:02] <ibanezmatt13> Ceramic?
[14:02] <Darkside> yes
[14:02] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks :)
[14:02] <Darkside> X5R or X7R dielectric
[14:02] <Darkside> oh wait
[14:02] <Darkside> through hole
[14:02] <mattbrejza> every clock cycle when all of the flipflops in the IC change it causes a surge of current, which is supplied by the capacitors, and so keeps the power rail steady
[14:02] <UpuWork> wheres Mark and what have you done with him ?
[14:03] <Darkside> UpuWork: ?
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[14:03] <ibanezmatt13> Darkside: ?
[14:03] <UpuWork> through hole ?
[14:03] <Darkside> UpuWork: i meant about ibanezmatt13's board
[14:03] <Darkside> or is that going to be SMD
[14:03] <UpuWork> SMD ibanezmatt13
[14:04] <mattbrejza> 0402
[14:04] <UpuWork> you can solder it here if needs be
[14:04] <mattbrejza> and QFN of everything
[14:04] <UpuWork> 0201
[14:04] <Darkside> mattbrejza: +1
[14:04] <UpuWork> I showed Matt 0201's when he was here
[14:04] <Darkside> mattbrejza: im working on a board with a BGA on it atm
[14:04] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks. Should I aim for 0201s for all components UpuWork ?
[14:04] <Darkside> lol
[14:04] <Darkside> no
[14:04] <UpuWork> haha
[14:04] <UpuWork> hell no
[14:04] <Darkside> stick with 0805s
[14:04] <mattbrejza> 0805 is a good start
[14:04] <UpuWork> I only have some as I ordered the wrong ones
[14:04] <UpuWork> 0805 or 0603
[14:05] <ibanezmatt13> They a bit small? :)
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[14:05] <Darkside> preferably 0805 to start with
[14:05] <jiffe98> my concern is that south dakota has a lot of areas that are very difficult to get to
[14:05] <jiffe98> the predictor is just a prediction, but it worked well for us last time
[14:05] <mattbrejza> Darkside: whats BGA?
[14:05] <mattbrejza> (what component)
[14:05] <Darkside> mattbrejza: TPS62366B
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[14:06] <Darkside> I2C controlled buck converter
[14:06] <mattbrejza> i guess if you solder QFN in an oven BGA isnt a massive step up, unless its really dense and you can get the wires out
[14:06] <navrac-work> aren't 0201's actually better known as dust particles
[14:06] <Darkside> mattbrejza: i do QFNs by hand
[14:06] <mattbrejza> also BGA doesnt require you to add paste...?
[14:06] <Darkside> the BGA i'll have to do with either reflow or hot air
[14:06] <Darkside> and yeah, you dont apply paste
[14:06] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, them vias are to shield the GPS Ant from noise [apparently]
[14:06] <Darkside> just melt the balls
[14:07] <Darkside> balls of..
[14:07] <Darkside> solder
[14:07] <mattbrejza> doing QFN by hand is less easy when theres an exposed pad
[14:07] <Darkside> nope
[14:07] <Darkside> its just as easy
[14:07] <Darkside> you put a large via under it
[14:07] <Darkside> and solder from th ebottom of the pcb
[14:07] <mattbrejza> yea last time i tried to solder QFN w/ pad there was no via
[14:07] <mattbrejza> didnt go well
[14:07] <Darkside> yeah that doesnt work
[14:07] <UpuWork> meanwhile
[14:07] <UpuWork> http://i.imgur.com/fa2oOyA.jpg
[14:07] <Darkside> you cant get the solder un itder it
[14:08] <Darkside> urgh lag
[14:08] <HixWork> ah cool you got them UpuWork
[14:08] <mattbrejza> i used paste in the middle though
[14:08] <fsphil> boards!
[14:08] <ibanezmatt13> looks good
[14:08] <UpuWork> no tantalums Darkside
[14:08] <mattbrejza> i know someone who will be happy to see those
[14:08] <Darkside> good UpuWork
[14:08] <UpuWork> I feel the world becoming a better place already
[14:09] <Darkside> you should try and get a quote for board loading
[14:09] <UpuWork> well
[14:09] <Darkside> at least fo the SMD parts
[14:09] <UpuWork> lets see how many sell
[14:09] <Darkside> mm
[14:09] <HixWork> have you shown cyclops yet?
[14:09] <UpuWork> haha
[14:09] <UpuWork> no
[14:09] <Lunar_LanderU> it is a good idea in any way UpuWork :)
[14:09] <UpuWork> he asks me daily anyway
[14:09] <UpuWork> sometimes twice a day
[14:10] <mattbrejza> might have to try a small BGA part, potentially less to go wrong as you cant over do the paste
[14:10] <HixWork> heh
[14:10] <Darkside> mattbrejza: well ive got test boards on the way, to determine just how well i can do BGA
[14:10] <HixWork> did you deliberatly wait 'till he'd gone for a spanish nap
[14:10] <Darkside> mattbrejza: i had to do some tricks to get some signals out from the middle of the chip
[14:10] <Darkside> basically put a via right underneath a pin i dont care about
[14:11] <mattbrejza> i guess you can via on the pad, but then it might suck away some of the solder?
[14:11] <Darkside> yes
[14:11] <Darkside> exactly
[14:11] <Darkside> but i dont care about the pin
[14:11] <mattbrejza> ah right
[14:11] <Darkside> it has an internal pulldown, so if it floats, i dont mind
[14:12] <Darkside> the pin above it, however is the one i care about
[14:12] <Darkside> the enable pin
[14:12] <Darkside> i have to keep the regulator off, program it with the correct voltage, then enable it
[14:12] <Darkside> as the default voltage will kill the load
[14:12] <mattbrejza> cant say ive come across a programmable DCDC before
[14:13] <mattbrejza> whats it powering?
[14:13] <Darkside> bitcoin mining ASIC
[14:13] <Darkside> >_>
[14:13] <mattbrejza> :P
[14:13] <mattbrejza> you can buy the ASIC bare?
[14:13] <fsphil> I bet it won't pay for itself
[14:13] <Darkside> mattbrejza: most peopel can't
[14:13] <Darkside> not easily anyway
[14:14] <Darkside> http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/
[14:14] <Darkside> thats one group selling them
[14:14] <Darkside> about 20 euro each
[14:14] <mattbrejza> not too bad i guess
[14:14] <Darkside> oh wait
[14:15] <mattbrejza> are they power in one side, stream of hashes the other?
[14:15] <Darkside> SPI controlled
[14:15] <Darkside> 55nm process
[14:15] <Darkside> for the SHA cores anyway
[14:15] <mattbrejza> then you have to get something in the middle to send the hashes to da internet?
[14:15] <Darkside> 120nm for the SPI logic
[14:15] <Darkside> yeah
[14:16] <Darkside> anyways, im jusjt doing pcb design
[14:16] <Darkside> and some prototyping
[14:16] <Darkside> paid work
[14:16] <mattbrejza> ah
[14:16] <mattbrejza> tbh should have borrowed a decent fpga from labs a few years ago and had that do some mining
[14:16] <Darkside> im using the bga chip as the board real-estate is very small
[14:17] <Darkside> all the other buck converters i've seen that require a huge amount of external components
[14:17] <fsphil> did anyone ever get a good match on that xkcd hash contest?
[14:17] <Darkside> all the TI buck converters have all the loop filters external
[14:17] <Darkside> which is a pita
[14:17] <Darkside> so this is actually a good solution
[14:17] <Darkside> and i get the benefit of being able to control the voltage from my interface uC
[14:18] <mattbrejza> it is quite fancy
[14:18] <mattbrejza> and only 2mmx2mm
[14:18] <Darkside> yeah
[14:18] <Darkside> im hoping i can place it correctly
[14:18] <Darkside> >_
[14:19] <Darkside> once its in place i should be able to use a preheater and some very very slow flow hot air to solder it down
[14:19] <mattbrejza> a hotplate to preheat does work very well
[14:20] <Darkside> we have a hakkp preheater thing
[14:20] <Darkside> hakko*
[14:20] <mattbrejza> but no IR oven in your lab?
[14:20] <Darkside> blows hot air up
[14:20] <Darkside> nope..
[14:20] <Darkside> iv been consiering getting an IR rework station
[14:22] <ibanezmatt13> Is this how you would connect one pin to vcc via a cap? https://www.dropbox.com/s/ifurmlgttg8pxtv/mine.png
[14:22] <ibanezmatt13> Ignore the cap value
[14:23] <mattbrejza> yep
[14:23] <ibanezmatt13> good, so I just need to do the same for the other two
[14:23] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
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[14:31] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: is this finished version ok? https://www.dropbox.com/s/rvnhner1zqsis4v/done.png
[14:32] <ibanezmatt13> I attempted to hook all three up to vcc with a cap each but not sure if it's ok
[14:32] <mattbrejza> yea thats fine
[14:32] <ibanezmatt13> Yes! Thank you :)
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[14:33] <KT5TK> Make sure that you don't put 22uF caps next to the crystal!
[14:33] <mattbrejza> btw you have wires shorting across the two caps by the crystal
[14:33] <KT5TK> They should be 18 pF or similar
[14:33] <UpuWork> ibanezmatt13 put junctions on everything where wires intersect
[14:33] <mattbrejza> (he hasnt got the actual values yet KT5TK )
[14:34] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, just changed them now, sorry
[14:34] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: Are they already intersected?
[14:34] <UpuWork> never assume it is
[14:34] <ibanezmatt13> Or is that just for clarity?
[14:34] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[14:34] <UpuWork> the board ERC will complain probably
[14:34] <UpuWork> also hit move , then select the chip and move it round
[14:34] <ibanezmatt13> Is there a tool where I can add junctions?
[14:34] <UpuWork> check everything moves with it
[14:35] <UpuWork> yes icon bottom left 3 up
[14:35] <UpuWork> next to the ABC
[14:35] <mattbrejza> otherwise this might happen: http://i.imgur.com/66fl5w8.png
[14:35] <ibanezmatt13> thanks UpuWork
[14:35] <ibanezmatt13> yeah the moving bit I have trouble with
[14:35] <ibanezmatt13> I move one thing, nothing moves with it. I need to move it as a group
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[14:36] <cyclops> yay, just connected a SD to my arduino :D
[14:36] <cyclops> The pins where arduino outputs data going to the radio are?
[14:37] <fsphil> whatever you want them to be
[14:37] <fsphil> you can use any gpio pin
[14:37] <fsphil> that isn't already being used obviously
[14:38] <cyclops> so i could tell the arduino to also also writte the output of those pins to the sd am i right?
[14:38] <fsphil> don't understand
[14:38] <cyclops> I mean
[14:39] <cyclops> AFAIK the arduino picks up the GPS signal
[14:39] <HixWork> SD will need SPI
[14:39] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: Is there a particular push button switch in Eagle that I should use for my reset pin on the ATMEGA? There are hundreds and I'm not quite sure which to choose
[14:39] <cyclops> And then formats it, plus sensor data and outputs to the radio
[14:39] <cyclops> Is that right?
[14:39] <mattbrejza> im not convinced at the need for a reset button
[14:39] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, download the sparkfun libraries
[14:39] <cyclops> SPI HixWork ?
[14:39] <ibanezmatt13> already got them HixWork
[14:40] <fsphil> reset buttons mainly exist to be pressed at the worst moments
[14:40] <HixWork> download a sparkfun board that you see one on, then you have it there to copy
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[14:40] <HixWork> cyclops, serial parallel interface
[14:40] <UpuWork> ibanezmatt13 yes its the "don't put one on" button
[14:40] <HixWork> heh
[14:40] <UpuWork> you don't need a reset button on a tracker
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[14:41] <daveake> or want
[14:41] <cyclops> No idea HixWork but ill try to find info :P
[14:41] <ibanezmatt13> So should I tie the reset pin to VCC or leave it completely untouched?
[14:41] <cyclops> UpuWork: Does the habduino needs Pins 13,12,11 or 4?
[14:41] <mattbrejza> itll need connecting to the programmer, but otherwise nothing else
[14:42] <ibanezmatt13> the reset pin mattbrejza ?
[14:42] <mattbrejza> yea
[14:42] <HixWork> cyclops, http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/SD/
[14:42] <ibanezmatt13> I've not worked that bit out yet :P
[14:42] <HixWork> cyclops, and http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/SPI
[14:42] <ibanezmatt13> I've not worked out how to leave room for an FTDI..
[14:42] <UpuWork> hey cyclops
[14:43] <UpuWork> you can check the schematic
[14:43] <cyclops> Thanks HixWork
[14:43] <UpuWork> http://i.imgur.com/fa2oOyA.jpg
[14:43] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, ISCP header will be connected
[14:43] Action: HixWork waits for cyclops to spot that pic
[14:43] <cyclops> UpuWork: Awsome, as I told you triying to figure out how to log things to a SD
[14:43] <LeoBodnar> What DCDC chip did you use Darkside ?
[14:43] <ibanezmatt13> Not sure what the ISCP header does, not used one yet HixWork
[14:44] <ibanezmatt13> Well, I know what it's for but not what the pins need to be connected to
[14:44] <cyclops> Beautiful boards UpuWork :P
[14:44] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, its the 6 pins that you have on a standard Uno
[14:44] <cyclops> Thanks for the info HixWork
[14:44] <HixWork> bypasses need for a bootloader
[14:45] <ibanezmatt13> Is there any info which tells me what the 6 pins are?
[14:45] <HixWork> though you need a programmer such as http://goo.gl/lG53xc
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[14:45] <cyclops> Ah and UpuWork the 2 batteries only power the tracker not the Arduino right?
[14:46] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: Would a USB to TTL converter breakout be ok instead?
[14:46] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, http://goo.gl/0quscf
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[14:47] <cyclops> arduino is not as difficult as it seems :D
[14:48] <ibanezmatt13> So I need to replicate that in my schematic HixWork ?
[14:48] <HixWork> yup
[14:48] <HixWork> I'm not 100~% on the FTDI programming part - others will havve to vouch for that
[14:48] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks for that pic
[14:48] <HixWork> nps
[14:48] <LeoBodnar> I have recently used 0.4mm pitch XDFN package sized 1.2x1.2mm.
[14:48] <LeoBodnar> I need a shoulder to cry on. They are such a pain for manual work.
[14:49] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: Should I tie the reset pin 29 to VCC or just leave it un soldered?
[14:49] <LeoBodnar> Went back to 0.5mm pitch DFNs
[14:49] <mattbrejza> LeoBodnar: ive done .4mm before, but it had nice leads to solder to
[14:50] <LeoBodnar> I don't mind larger chip but 1x1 mm thingy with 6 pads is just impossible to stay put
[14:50] <cyclops> Guys how much is helium there in the UK?
[14:50] <cyclops> *price I mean
[14:50] <HixWork> bloody expensive
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[14:51] <LeoBodnar> So what was the I2C controlled DCDC thingy?
[14:51] <HixWork> cyclops, http://goo.gl/vYkgH
[14:51] <mattbrejza> TPS62366B
[14:52] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
[14:52] <mattbrejza> balls
[14:52] <cyclops> a little cheaper than here HixWork
[14:52] <mattbrejza> but yea that one
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[14:53] <LeoBodnar> Cheers mattbrejza
[14:53] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, on my boards, the reset pin goes to the RST in ICSP and there is a 10k resistor to VCC too
[14:53] <HixWork> though I am no expert
[14:53] <UpuWork> ibanezmatt13 to VCC via a 10k Resistor
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[14:54] <mattbrejza> no resistor is needed
[14:54] <ibanezmatt13> thanks UpuWork
[14:54] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: I'll do it anyway; looks nice on my schematic :)
[14:54] <cyclops> UpuWork: so the ones of the pic are finished ones?
[14:54] <mattbrejza> until you realise theres no space on the pcb
[14:55] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, hopefully that won't happen just ye
[14:55] <ibanezmatt13> t
[14:55] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: I think you can only use an ftdi to program the chip if it's got a suitable bootloader on and by default it probably won't have a bootloader. The ISCP is the standard programming header (which needs a suitable programmer)
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[14:55] <HixWork> thats it, though you can get bootloaded ATMega 328s iirc
[14:56] <mattbrejza> http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc8161.pdf pg47, there is an internal pullup
[14:56] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: I was going to use an ATMEGA328P which already had an UNO bootloader. However, I will definitely get a proper programmer at some point
[14:56] <cyclops> HixWork: were you the one who sent mi this pic? http://i.imgur.com/WpZEFYJ.jpg
[14:57] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, if you are using a DIP chip you could use the uno to burn a bootloader onto a blank 328
[14:57] <HixWork> cyclops, yes
[14:57] <cyclops> :D
[14:57] <cyclops> Well the dongle arrived yesterday
[14:57] <HixWork> cool
[14:57] <cyclops> so to take it apart without damaging
[14:58] <cyclops> As it does not have screws with a flat screwdriver could work?
[14:58] <ibanezmatt13> I could HixWork, but I'm thinking of using the TQFP package. For that version would I need the 6 pin header?
[14:58] <mattbrejza> pg314 says the pullup is 20-50kohm
[14:58] <HixWork> i used fingernails and gently prised it open
[14:58] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, you can use Uno as an ICSP, i forgot about that
[14:59] <cyclops> done
[14:59] <cyclops> Opened
[14:59] <HixWork> nice
[14:59] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: you might want to check you can get the TQFP package with a bootloader already on it (I think normally from farnell/rs etc. there won't be any bootloader)
[14:59] <cyclops> ok so i sonly see one antenna contact
[14:59] <HixWork> centre one cyclops?
[14:59] <cyclops> and you soldered 2 points
[14:59] <cyclops> yes
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[15:00] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, HixWork: In the case that I have a chip without a bootloader and I needed to use an UNO to burn the bootloader onto it (the TQFP package), would that 6 pin ISCP header be ok for that or not?
[15:00] <HixWork> cyclops, i cleared the mask either side of the centre pin with a scalpel blade until i saw copper then soldered to that, it being GND
[15:00] <mfa298> the 6 pin iscp header is exactly what you need in that case.
[15:01] <mfa298> you also need that header if you want to change fuses on it (different ways of clocking it etc)
[15:01] <cyclops> So HixWork I have to solder 2 pins of the antenna conector right?
[15:01] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, yes
[15:01] <ibanezmatt13> excellent, thanks
[15:01] <cyclops> and to take the old connector off, desoldering it right?
[15:01] <HixWork> cyclops, cnetre and a GND either side
[15:01] <HixWork> yes
[15:01] <ibanezmatt13> so all I need to follow is this basically for my schematic http://freeduino.ru/arduino/images/Prog_Mega-ISP_scheme_icsp.gif ?
[15:01] <cyclops> so 2 pins soldered
[15:02] <HixWork> 3 - the photo is WIP
[15:02] <cyclops> oh Isee
[15:02] <cyclops> so the near the led pin soldered right?
[15:03] <HixWork> yes, though avoid the LED track
[15:03] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: Is this all I need to follow for making the ISCP header on my schematic? http://freeduino.ru/arduino/images/Prog_Mega-ISP_scheme_icsp.gif
[15:03] <HixWork> just gently reveal copper with the tip of a scalpel
[15:03] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: check the datasheets, they should tell you the pins you need (probably vcc, gnd, reset, mosi, miso and a clock)
[15:03] <cyclops> ok!
[15:04] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: I didn't think to find a datasheet for the ISCP header. I'll have a look
[15:04] <cyclops> Thanks for the help, ill wait for Upu to deliver it with the habduino and then solder it
[15:04] <cyclops> from knowing nothing about soldering I'm gonna became an expert :P
[15:04] <mfa298> there should be some stuff in the 328 datasheet (well worth grabbing - but warning it's big)
[15:05] <mfa298> there's also a seperate datasheet for the standard header layout
[15:06] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: Will there be a different ISCP header pin out for different versions of the ATMEGA328P? This looks ok http://www.enchantedage.com/node/244
[15:06] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, ICSP is on the board i linkd you
[15:06] <HixWork> .sch and .brd
[15:06] <ibanezmatt13> Ah yes, I'll take a lok
[15:06] <ibanezmatt13> look
[15:07] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: Ah, I see it :) How did you get that icon for your header? Is there a headers section in Eagle?
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[15:09] <HixWork> copy and past it from my board
[15:09] <HixWork> cant remember where
[15:09] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: I think one of the keys for selecting components in eagle is to match to components you can buy. Once you do the pcb layout you need the pads to match what you put on there.
[15:10] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok. I'll do that
[15:10] <mfa298> although standard for the iscp seems to be a 2x3 2.54mm pitch header (also sometimes marked .1")
[15:10] <mattbrejza> there is a part in a library for the isp that has all the pins labelled
[15:10] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, note: you need to group select and copy or it doesn't work in eagle. weird but that how it is
[15:11] <mattbrejza> in library 'avr-6'
[15:11] <ibanezmatt13> oh so I can copy the ISCP header from one .sch to another?
[15:11] <HixWork> yes
[15:11] <ibanezmatt13> that's handy
[15:11] <mattbrejza> dont know where i got that library from though :P
[15:11] <HixWork> but using group to select
[15:11] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks
[15:13] <HixWork> so choose copy icon first then group then drag select then right click copy:group
[15:13] <ibanezmatt13> done it, thank you :)
[15:13] <HixWork> then when you go to the other sch choose the paste icon one up from the X delete icon
[15:14] <HixWork> damn!!! plot from octave no worky in cgywin
[15:15] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: Where you've done those labels to connect each pin on the ISCP to other parts of the board, how do you find those labels?
[15:15] <ibanezmatt13> How can I insert one?
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[15:16] <HixWork> you choose label and select a wire the border is reference option on the tools at the top
[15:16] <ibanezmatt13> thanks I'll have a look
[15:17] <HixWork> you'll see the xref on icon next to the layers dropdown
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[15:28] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: With the ISCP header, I've connected GND to GND, VCC to VCC, but as for MOSI, MISO and SCK, where do they go
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[15:29] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, on my sch look at the 328
[15:29] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: you should find them in the 328 datasheet
[15:30] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks
[15:30] <HixWork> top left 15,16,17
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[15:31] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: Why are the same connections made to the micro SD? Will I need that?
[15:32] <mfa298> depends on whether you want to use a micro SD to log data
[15:32] <HixWork> SPI uses MOSI: master output, slave input http://goo.gl/IObC
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[15:33] <HixWork> http://avrbeginners.net/architecture/spi/spi.html
[15:33] <ibanezmatt13> I won't be using a Micro SD, so are the only connections from the ISCP header to the chip the MOSI, MISO and SCK?
[15:33] <HixWork> in that case yes
[15:34] <HixWork> plus RST VCC GND obv
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[15:34] <mfa298> MOSI/MISO are part of the SPI bus which you can use to talk to other devices that use SPI (like a microSD)
[15:34] <ibanezmatt13_> HixWork: Thank you! :)
[15:35] <HixWork> nps
[15:35] <ibanezmatt13_> Ah ok mfa298, thank you
[15:35] <HixWork> and mfa298
[15:35] <HixWork> :)
[15:36] <ibanezmatt13_> Off out for dinner, thanks for all the help. Bye! :)
[15:36] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13_ don't make the mistake i made on the first board i did. break out every bloody pin you can.
[15:36] <HixWork> rather than have a board that you can't add to
[15:36] <ibanezmatt13_> HixWork: Thankfully I've not done that
[15:36] Action: HixWork stupid boy!!
[15:36] <ibanezmatt13_> See you :)
[15:36] <HixWork> bye
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[15:43] Action: AF5LI wake up
[15:43] <AF5LI> good morning
[15:44] <HixWork> Hi
[15:46] <x-f> hi
[15:46] <x-f> must be a good feeling to wake up and see your balloon still floating :)
[15:47] <AF5LI> yep
[15:47] <AF5LI> watched the whole night
[15:48] <AF5LI> got no real sleep
[15:49] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/T56P9YU.gif
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[16:12] <chrisstubbs> blimey this electrolube flux is like glue
[16:12] <chrisstubbs> good stuff but sticky as hell
[16:13] <HixWork> sticky lube
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[16:14] <cyclops> hi
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[16:16] <chrisstubbs> HixWork, careful
[16:24] <HixWork> sounds like it could all go wrong
[16:25] <AF5LI> hm its stuck ^
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[16:26] <HixWork> escape time
[16:30] <chrisstubbs> How do they make 0 ohm resistors to +- 5%
[16:30] <chrisstubbs> they would have to be exactly 0 ohms
[16:30] <AF5LI> :D
[16:31] <AF5LI> 0 * 0.05% => 0
[16:32] <AF5LI> i'd like to have an resistor with -0.00001ohm and a tolerance of 10% :P
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[16:35] <PB0NER> there is absolutely no material capable of making 0 Ohm resistors or you would need to chill it quite a bit.
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[16:55] <G0TDJ_Steve> 'Evening guys
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[17:01] <cyclops> which software to use for opening sch files?
[17:01] <cyclops> Eagle does not
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[17:05] <G0TDJ_Steve> cyclops: Not just Eagle uses the SCH extension. I think Protel used it too?
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[17:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> To paraphrase the great Kenneth Williams 'Flying Tonight?'
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[17:23] <SpeedEvil> Flying is dangerous. But there are worse things http://b3ta.com/board/10986698
[17:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'll steer away from Donkeys then...
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[17:56] <DL7AD> good afternoon
[17:57] Nick change: DL7AD -> AF5LI
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[18:00] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi LeoBodnar
[18:00] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh Hi AF5LI as well :-)
[18:03] <AF5LI> hi :)
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[18:03] <AF5LI> or good evening in your part
[18:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> Thank you, yes, 7:05pm here in Crayford
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[18:04] <LeoBodnar> Hi G0TDJ_Steve !
[18:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> How you doing Leo?
[18:05] <AF5LI> LeoBodnar what do you think about this? http://www.baerenballons.de/artikeldetailseite/kategorie/ohne-druck.134/artikel/pvc-riesenballon-6-meter-umfang.html
[18:05] <AF5LI> PVC Balloons...
[18:05] <AF5LI> i'd like suppose its more robust
[18:06] <bertrik> CHEAPO died because of empty battery, right?
[18:06] <AF5LI> bertrik yes
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[18:09] <LeoBodnar> Doing juuust fine!
[18:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nice one
[18:10] <LeoBodnar> Interesting find AF5LI, is it heavy?
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[18:12] <KT5TK_QRL> We don't know how heavy they are
[18:12] <KT5TK_QRL> but likely thicker than foil balloons
[18:13] <nigelvh> Your flight looks to be still going well this morning.
[18:13] <nigelvh> Do you know how long the battery should last?
[18:13] <KT5TK_QRL> They say that they can lift 2 kg when fully inflated
[18:14] <KT5TK_QRL> nigelvh: a AAA battery lasted 15 hours on a Pecan. I never depleted a AA
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[18:15] <nigelvh> Hmm
[18:15] <KT5TK_QRL> BTW here are some pics: http://kt5tk.wordpress.com/
[18:15] <nigelvh> Last position looks to have dropped by about 7km.
[18:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nice shack...
[18:17] <KT5TK_QRL> According to the air pressure this seems to be a hickup from the GPS.
[18:17] <nigelvh> Yeah...
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[18:17] <arko> KT5TK_QRL: Nice!!
[18:18] <nigelvh> Interesting, no insulation.
[18:18] <nigelvh> Suppose it's just weight.
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[18:19] <KT5TK_QRL> I absolutely don't understand why the GPS does this? Maybe something in my code?
[18:19] <nigelvh> Good question.
[18:20] <nigelvh> Baro is handy for knowing when the GPS is full of crap.
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[18:20] <KT5TK_QRL> It says it has 7 Sats, so that doesn't seem to be the issue...
[18:21] <nigelvh> Yeah, and the anomalous points said 7 and 9 sats.
[18:21] <nigelvh> Do you use serial or i2c?
[18:22] <nigelvh> I think serial right?
[18:22] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, serial.
[18:22] <nigelvh> And standard NMEA rather than the ublox proprietary?
[18:23] <AF5LI> KT5TK_QRL did you remember when we searched for the same pcb on sunday? we recognized the deviation on sunday too.
[18:23] <nigelvh> And if I recall you use the tinygps library.
[18:24] <nigelvh> Are you on the hardware serial or the software serial?
[18:24] <AF5LI> that pcb which is currently flying is that one we used on sunday
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[18:25] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes NEMA. Similar hickups have been seen at Ron's transatlantic flights. Maybe this is intentional misinformation from the US Army to misguide foreign missiles over US territory :)
[18:26] <nigelvh> How does your timing work. Do you sequentially read gps then transmit, or is transmit on its own interrupt timing?
[18:27] <nigelvh> You're using a modified Trackuino code base aren't you?
[18:28] <nigelvh> My flights dont see those errors, but I don't use trackuino.
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[18:30] <cyclops> Guys so in the Arduino SPI pins, more than one shield can be connected?
[18:30] <nigelvh> Yes, you just use a different SS pin for each device.
[18:30] <nigelvh> The devices ignore SPI data unless their SS pin is chosen.
[18:31] <cyclops> Perfect
[18:31] <cyclops> Then ill be able to add a SD to my Habduino :D
[18:31] <nigelvh> KT5TK_QRL, my most recent flight is still up on APRS.fi. K7NVH-11 and set the show and tail to 3 days.
[18:32] <nigelvh> There's the one outlier point on I-90 as the system was on in the trunk as we were driving home.
[18:32] <LeoBodnar> I like direct routing on PCBs with non-45 degrees angles
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[18:33] <KT5TK_QRL> The cycle goes: Acquire GPS until you have at least 5 sats and 3 valid (CRC) positions in a row. Then switch off GPS, wait till 2 minutes are expired and transmit the APRS packet. Then switch on GPS and start over.
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[18:33] <mattbrejza> LeoBodnar: eww
[18:34] <ganjika> high altitude ganja growing on mount everest
[18:34] <KT5TK_QRL> The bat pin of the MAX6 is permanently powered
[18:34] <mattbrejza> the only non-45 bends that should allowed are old school curvy ones
[18:34] <nigelvh> I just wonder if there's something funny in the trackuino code for GPS parsing.
[18:34] <nigelvh> Because I don't see those errors.
[18:35] <KT5TK_QRL> I thought I understood all steps from that code and I successfully made several modifications.
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[18:35] <KT5TK_QRL> I rather think that switching the GPS completely off and on is challenging
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[18:35] <nigelvh> I don't do that either.
[18:36] <KT5TK_QRL> But it saves a lot of power
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[18:36] <nigelvh> Does Ron also use trackuino?
[18:37] <nigelvh> Because you said his flights also see hiccups.
[18:37] <KT5TK_QRL> No, he uses Bigredbee trackers
[18:37] <nigelvh> Do they say what code they use, or if they wrote custom.
[18:38] <KT5TK_QRL> That's custom code
[18:38] <cyclops> Arnt APRS trackers difficult to follow when balloon is +20km?
[18:38] <nigelvh> cyclops, they work just fine.
[18:38] <nigelvh> Most of the US guys use APRS.
[18:38] <cyclops> I was going to use APRS till I knew I needed a license
[18:38] <nigelvh> Myself included.
[18:38] <cyclops> And here in spain costs 200¬
[18:39] <cyclops> So RTTY FTW
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[18:39] <x-f> have you contacted some radioamateurs to help you with tracking?
[18:39] <KT5TK_QRL> It mainly depends on what receiver network you have available
[18:40] <cyclops> Im on process x-f
[18:40] <x-f> good :)
[18:41] <nigelvh> KT5TK_QRL, on the other hand, we don't normally do floaters, so my flights are done in a couple hours. So maybe I just don't see it for that reason.
[18:45] <nigelvh> Anyway, out for a bit. Hope your flight continues well guys!
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[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[18:47] <AF5LI> hi
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[18:54] <iloilailir> how old do u guys think a a 18 year old girl would go?
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[19:00] <Upu> that doesn't make any sense sure you're on the correct channel ?
[19:01] <cyclops> Upu
[19:01] <cyclops> Which is the SS pin of the habduino?
[19:01] <Upu> cyclops
[19:01] <Upu> SS ?
[19:01] Action: Lunar_Lander buzzes in
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> 10
[19:01] <cyclops> Well as i have been reading
[19:02] <cyclops> You connect the shield using SPI
[19:02] <Jonathan_G4KLX> Is PIE flying tonight?
[19:02] <cyclops> And the 11,12,13 pins as ive seen in the sch
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[19:02] <cyclops> And If I want to connect more shields to the SPI i Need to use another SS pin
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> ah as far as I know, you can select any pin to be SS for the second device
[19:03] <cyclops> Oh
[19:03] <cyclops> Fine then
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[19:04] <cyclops> dont worry Upu problem solved
[19:04] <Upu> nps :)
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[19:05] <cyclops> The photo you sent before was of finished boards?
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[19:06] <Upu> yeah
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[19:08] <cyclops> You are good soldering :P
[19:09] <iloilailir> what is this channel about btw?
[19:09] <Upu> check the topic out iloilailir
[19:10] <iloilailir> alirght. i've always wondered the max speed of an F-35
[19:10] <Upu> I'm sure you can find that on Wikipedia
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[19:11] <ibanezmatt13> ping UpuWork
[19:11] <Upu> hey Matt
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: https://www.dropbox.com/s/frxtqzobofk73wa/HAB.sch Is this ok?
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> No rush
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> It's my first attempt at a PCB
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> I can't tell whether everything is definitely joined up as I'm not that used to Eagle yet :)
[19:12] <Upu> checking
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> Thank you
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> No NTX2 yet
[19:12] <Upu> Ok ready ? :)
[19:13] <Upu> R1 isn't connected to anything
[19:13] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[19:13] <Upu> pin 21 GND not connected to 328
[19:13] <LeoBodnar> Darkside: around?
[19:13] <ibanezmatt13> Is this to do with putting in junctions?
[19:13] <Upu> no its just not connected
[19:13] <Upu> click move on the AVR
[19:13] <Upu> and move it round (press esc to cancel)
[19:14] <Upu> note the 10k and the missing link to GND
[19:14] <Upu> C4 not connected
[19:14] <ibanezmatt13> a little confused... :/
[19:14] <LeoBodnar> Oh, night in Oz
[19:14] <ibanezmatt13> Basically, nothing connected :)
[19:14] <Upu> C2 not connected
[19:14] <Upu> C1 not connected
[19:14] <Upu> Crystal is :)
[19:14] <ibanezmatt13> thank god
[19:14] <Upu> same with GPS
[19:15] <Upu> many things not connected
[19:15] <Upu> pro top
[19:15] <Upu> tip
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[19:15] <ibanezmatt13> What do you mean that they're not connected?
[19:15] <LeoBodnar> KT5TK_QRL AF5LI_QRL what is GPSpwr?
[19:15] <Upu> ok 1 sec
[19:15] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[19:15] <Upu> https://join.me/679-072-837
[19:15] <KT5TK_QRL> GPS power is an indicator if the GPS is on for a full cycle
[19:16] <AF5LI_QRL> LeoBodnar if it is around 0, the gps wasnt switched on for the whole cycle
[19:16] <KT5TK_QRL> It should be always low if all is correct and 3.3V if GPS hangs
[19:16] <Upu> ok PM ibanezmatt13
[19:16] <LeoBodnar> Thanks
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[19:17] <LeoBodnar> So it is an average of GPS Vcc over the last cycle?
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[19:18] <KT5TK_QRL> No, not really. It just shows a single datapoint
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[19:19] <KT5TK_QRL> I put the ATMega to sleep for almost 2 minutes, so no adc is on
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[19:19] <cyclops> Ahh Upu one thing
[19:19] <LeoBodnar> KT5TK_QRL: Haha I can see you weren't sure which pin to feed TCXO into on Si4462! :)
[19:19] <cyclops> The two AA Batts only power the habduino right?
[19:20] <LeoBodnar> So was it XIN in the end?
[19:20] <LeoBodnar> Darkside thinks it is XOUT
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[19:21] <KT5TK_QRL> On my Pecan Pico 2 board I only had a connection to Xin and that didn't work for me.
[19:21] <Upu> so anyway Matt :)
[19:21] <Upu> nice split if you can still read this
[19:22] <KT5TK_QRL> Now I have both options, but only Xout works for my oscillator.
[19:22] <LeoBodnar> KT5TK_QRL: http://kt5tk.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/pecanpico4_annotated.png?w=700&h= looks like XIN?
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[19:22] <nigelvh> Leo, it's on XOUT
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[19:23] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, definitely Xout
[19:23] <Willdude123> Hi Upu
[19:23] <Willdude123> In the lobby.
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[19:24] <LeoBodnar> KT5TK_QRL: http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/AN629.pdf page 22 shows XIN ?!
[19:24] <nigelvh> Yes, the datasheet is wrong. Or not good for our xtals.
[19:24] <LeoBodnar> And it says "Figure 25. Schematic of the 4463-PCE20C868SE RF Pico Board Matching Network" XD
[19:24] <LeoBodnar> What a mess
[19:25] <LeoBodnar> Do they make EVM modules with XTALs or TCXO?
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[19:25] <nigelvh> EVM?
[19:25] miss (riza.febr@ left #highaltitude.
[19:26] <LeoBodnar> Evaluation modules
[19:26] <nigelvh> They're probably cheap and use regular xtals.
[19:27] <LeoBodnar> It's such a disaster I don't want to upset my current design that uses XIN but everybody else seems to disagree...
[19:27] <nigelvh> Just put a capacitor pad to both and then just populate the one you find works.
[19:27] <nigelvh> But we've found XOUT works.
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[19:28] <KT5TK_QRL> Maybe the Si4464 is more critical in this aspect than the plain transmitter
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[19:29] <KT5TK_QRL> Usin Xout you take away the problematic oscillator circuit entirely
[19:29] <LeoBodnar> Have you set config values to TCXO? I have seen no difference at all
[19:30] <nigelvh> Yes, we've tried that.
[19:30] <nigelvh> Tried tuning the xtal capacitance
[19:30] <KT5TK_QRL> I put the caps to minimum value
[19:30] <LeoBodnar> It would be nice to switch problematic oscillator circuit off but it does not want to
[19:30] <cyclops> dinner time!
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[19:35] <Willdude123> I'm loving this 200 kbit/s internet.
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[19:36] <LeoBodnar> OK, I am jumping the ship and changing to XOUT :)
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[19:37] <LeoBodnar> I can always bodge it back but I it would be nice to have PCB without any wire links finally
[19:37] <nigelvh> In my testing with XIN, I was able to get it to boot by tapping an exposed part of the trace with an electrically conductive object, but not in a reliable fashion. XOUT works well.
[19:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> BBC 2 in the UK Science club - Sending up a balloon experiment
[19:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> NOW
[19:38] <LeoBodnar> CUSF?
[19:39] <LeoBodnar> USA?
[19:39] <nigelvh> Not sure what you're asking.
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[19:42] <chrisstubbs> G0TDJ_Steve, did i miss it?
[19:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, but you can catch it on iPlayer later
[19:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> Only a couple of mins
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[19:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> Interesting though
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[19:44] <LeoBodnar> I would.
[19:45] <LeoBodnar> nigelvh: what DC blocking cap do you use now? I have 120pF to XIN
[19:46] <nigelvh> KT5TK has done more experimenting with the actual value of the cap, I believe his schematic says he's using 100pF to XOUT
[19:48] <KT5TK_QRL> I started off with 4pF as this should be the correct voltage divider AC) according to the datasheet, but I found it to be stable at around 22pF.
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[19:48] <KT5TK_QRL> Now I use 100 pF to have enough margin
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[19:49] <KT5TK_QRL> This is with a 3.3V 27 MHz VCXO
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[19:50] <LeoBodnar> What is your voltage swing on TCXO out?
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[20:06] <craag> Parts and 100g balloons ordered for 434MHz $$CRACKLE tracker :)
[20:08] <craag> 50g tracker might be a bit heavy, but I'll give it a go.
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[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[20:08] PB0NER (~pb0ner@2001:980:5578:1:19ad:9f62:daee:9f94) joined #highaltitude.
[20:09] <D001_> anyone used a "mini Digital TV Stick" off of ebay for tracking, it doesnt give me any more information on the box
[20:09] <craag> argh and i forgot discount code for hab supplies.
[20:09] <craag> D001_: Is it an RTL based?
[20:10] <D001_> think so
[20:10] <craag> I've used a mini Digital TV stick for tracking, no idea if it's the same one.
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[20:10] <craag> Have you got it in front of you?
[20:10] <D001_> yes
[20:10] <craag> Can you open it up and look at the chips?
[20:11] Nick change: D001_ -> teve_2e0vet
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[20:11] <craag> Ah Steve, good evening!
[20:11] <teve_2e0vet> let me just check the ebay listing first
[20:11] <teve_2e0vet> good evening
[20:11] <craag> The chip nearest the USB needs to be a Realtek RTL2832
[20:12] Action: fsphil lends teve_2e0vet an S :)
[20:12] <teve_2e0vet> DVB-T USB TV RTL-SDR FM+DAB Radio Tuner Receiver Stick Realtek RTL2832U+R820T
[20:12] <teve_2e0vet> lol
[20:12] <craag> that'll work :)
[20:12] <teve_2e0vet> i didnt think these things were meant to be opened but i will give it a try
[20:13] <craag> If that's the one, then it tells you what chips are in it, no need to open it!
[20:13] <craag> RTL2832U and R820T will work fine.
[20:13] <craag> I'd suggest getting a habamp though.
[20:13] <teve_2e0vet> it doesnt mention that on the packaging though which is surprising
[20:13] <teve_2e0vet> got one lol
[20:14] <teve_2e0vet> i have been busy purchasing this week
[20:14] <teve_2e0vet> just wondering how i connect the hab amp to the stick
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[20:15] <craag> Ah, need adaptor SMA to belling-lee?
[20:15] <teve_2e0vet> 'ollocks
[20:16] <teve_2e0vet> does habsupplies do them or maplin
[20:16] <fsphil> easy enough to make
[20:16] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> teve_2e0vet, Try http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/HABAMP_and_DONGLE/
[20:16] <teve_2e0vet> Geoff-G8DHE, thanks
[20:16] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE-M: If you've got an rx setup with a long bit of coax though, you want the habamp near the antenna.
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[20:17] <craag> Cool bit of kit though!
[20:17] Nick change: teve_2e0vet -> steve_2e0vet
[20:17] <steve_2e0vet> i found my "S"
[20:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> That's what I use in the Campervan ;-)
[20:18] <steve_2e0vet> Geoff-G8DHE, whats on the end of the black and red wires not the DVB??
[20:18] <Upu> ping Willdude123
[20:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Its only about 4 foot at most from the aerial!
[20:18] <craag> A guy I know put an rtl-sdr in a large metal box with rugged N connector and USB, and persuaded several ESA peeps it was a several-hundred-quid bit of kit. Does make it look very pro!
[20:19] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> They provide the power from the USB to the HABAMP
[20:20] <steve_2e0vet> Geoff-G8DHE, the HABAMP, is it the one from UPU
[20:21] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yes the new design
[20:21] <db_g6gzh> neat re-packaging Geoff-G8DHE-M
[20:21] <steve_2e0vet> argh you have repackaged it, now it makes sense lol
[20:22] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Needed it small and neat for use when out in a Mazda Bongo!
[20:23] <steve_2e0vet> the one i got is the VK5QI/M0UPU HABAMP V2 343Mhz... would that be the same as yours?
[20:23] <Gadget-Mac> Geoff-G8DHE: Very neat.
[20:23] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://360.g8dhe.net/default.php?52010
[20:23] <Gadget-Mac> Got plans to do https://www.dropbox.com/s/uyeayelpbvugafe/IMG_20130712_113207.jpg myself
[20:24] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yes thats the one, they fit in the next size up of the Hammond box, provided you can cut the dongle board klength down in size a bit.
[20:24] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> *length
[20:25] <Upu> nice Gadget-Mac :)
[20:25] <steve_2e0vet> where do you get the hammond boxes from?
[20:26] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: Yeah, might end up putting the amps and USB sticks on some copperclad with an RF box over the top
[20:26] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Farnnel
[20:26] <steve_2e0vet> Geoff-G8DHE, notice you dont have power into that box?? or am i missing something
[20:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Power from USB
[20:28] <steve_2e0vet> Geoff-G8DHE, argh ok, and you utilise the power "hole" for the DVB antenna
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[20:28] <steve_2e0vet> ok screwdriver in hand time to crack open DVB
[20:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Just picked up the outer connections of the USB plug on the Dongle, to feed the power to the HabAmp.
[20:29] <fsphil> take it apaaaat
[20:30] <steve_2e0vet> shame i wont be able to cut this dongle down
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[20:31] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Are you sure ? Most of the front end of the dongle is just PCB to allow the socket to be mouned.
[20:31] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> *mounted
[20:31] <Gadget-Mac> If only there was an RF bypass option on the HAB amp ;)
[20:32] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Would be nice I ouldn't have needed the extra connectors!
[20:32] <steve_2e0vet> yeah i have a transistor right at the back of the board
[20:33] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Is that not the esd diode which can be moved if needed ?
[20:33] <db_g6gzh> Mine is like Gadget-Mac's ones, with an MCX connector on the side, so can't be shortened enough (assuming that box is actually square).
[20:33] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Close enough to square, just a few mm differnce
[20:34] <steve_2e0vet> mine has the connector on the side and a diode and transistor at the back, i think its a transistor however its pretty bulky
[20:35] <db_g6gzh> It's longer than the long side of the pre-boxed habamp anyway.
[20:36] <Gadget-Mac> Need to find some time to finish it all off and get it up the mast
[20:36] <db_g6gzh> I assume from previous mention that one of those is for 1090 MHz ?
[20:37] <steve_2e0vet> can i ask a really stupid question, and i mean stupid, my mind has gone blank
[20:38] <steve_2e0vet> whats the DVB dongle for?
[20:38] <Gadget-Mac> db_g6gzh: Yes
[20:39] <Willdude123> ping Upu
[20:39] <Gadget-Mac> Which reminds me, I have some paperwork to complete for FR24
[20:39] <Willdude123> How peculiar
[20:40] <Gadget-Mac> Willdude123: some people do tell me that
[20:40] <cm13g09> steve_2e0vet: DVB dongles tend to work reasonably well for RX of HAB
[20:40] <Upu> Willdude123
[20:40] <steve_2e0vet> but my radio will do that?
[20:40] <Upu> Willdude123 http://i.imgur.com/SJBVozJ.jpg nothing wrong with your GPS module
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[20:41] <Willdude123> Well, I got no lock when it was just outside the window dfor an hour. he winodw for over han h
[20:41] Action: cm13g09 hasn't read the history of this conversation...
[20:41] <Willdude123> For half an hour
[20:41] <Upu> you must have something near it causing an issue
[20:41] <Upu> as it locked up with 40 secs here
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> "<fsphil> take it apaaaat"
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> no not disassemble!
[20:41] <Willdude123> Upu, Sorry about that.
[20:42] <Upu> its ok
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, I just wondered about something
[20:42] <Willdude123> I really am, it just didn't get any lock so I was really confused.
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> the 808s seem to be assembled from electronics which have failed QC
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> at least that is the opinion at RCGroups
[20:42] <steve_2e0vet> OK, so how do i set the frequency on the DVB's
[20:42] <Willdude123> Let me paypal you £3 for the return delivery.
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[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> I wonder how much effort it would be to construct a proper version that has no RF issues
[20:43] <Upu> well I doubt they fail QC
[20:43] <Upu> fail emissions for sure
[20:43] <Upu> Lunar
[20:43] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EQ9hjTHNJM#at=88
[20:43] <Upu> is that all true ?
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[20:45] <Willdude123> upu, how much do you want for return delivery/annoyance compensation?
[20:45] <db_g6gzh> Nice mast, not too far from Upu, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Radio-Mast-Tower-Aerial-Tower-Telecommunication-mobile-phone-mast-/130953354548?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones_Communication_Radio_Antennas&hash=item1e7d6d9d34
[20:45] <Upu> £250
[20:45] <Upu> wow
[20:46] <db_g6gzh> I dread to think how much it would cost to dismantle, move and re-erect.
[20:46] <Upu> Emley Moor Jnr
[20:46] <arko> ah perfect, i've been meaning to buy a tower
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, no I don't know what guy that is
[20:46] <db_g6gzh> and the nighbours might notice it
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> though I was told that german can sound quite rough
[20:47] <mattbrejza> comes with £1400 of diesel too
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[20:47] <chrisstubbs> the generator comes with 1000l of diesel
[20:47] <chrisstubbs> ^ lol
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[20:47] <Jonathan_G4KLX> Buy it now for £5000, I'll take two!
[20:47] <db_g6gzh> that cost extra though, as does the fence
[20:48] <chrisstubbs> Upu knows he wants to get the yagi up that
[20:48] <Upu> lol
[20:48] <Upu> would be amazing
[20:48] <Willdude123> Upu, you want £259 for return delivery??? :-)
[20:48] <Upu> yes pls Willdude123
[20:48] <Willdude123> *250
[20:48] <LeoBodnar> AF5LI_QRL: How long are expecting to float the balloon? Will it hold for 3 days maybe?
[20:48] <Willdude123> Sure.
[20:48] <Upu> :)
[20:48] <Willdude123> Paypal Email?
[20:48] <LeoBodnar> *you
[20:48] <Upu> speak to me when you're back from holiday
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[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, someone found out that one of the memory chips on the 808 contains some mobile phone wallpapers
[20:49] <Willdude123> I can do it here, despite the 200 kbps internet
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> so it was thought that they are assembled from leftover mobile parts
[20:50] <LeoBodnar> Interesting that GPS started to spend more time in powered mode after 12:00
[20:50] <mfa298> 200kbps! I remember the days of 56kbps if you were lucky
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> lucky...
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> daft punk - getting lucky
[20:50] <LeoBodnar> GPS wake up time went from 10% to 40%
[20:52] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, internal memory?
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> yea something like that
[20:53] <chrisstubbs> Okay pico board ready for tomorow
[20:53] <chrisstubbs> decent flux, solder and a 0.5mm tip worked really well for the ublox
[20:53] <chrisstubbs> it was almost easy!
[20:54] <cm13g09> lol
[20:54] <cm13g09> I won't be around to track tomorrow chrisstubbs
[20:54] <cm13g09> driving to Birmingham tomorrow
[20:54] <AF5LI_QRL> LeoBodnar i dont know. i hope the battery will go off first.
[20:55] <chrisstubbs> ah darn
[20:55] <G0TDJ_Steve> What time is launch chrisstubbs ?
[20:55] <LeoBodnar> I hope you mean "expect" not "hope" ? :)
[20:56] <LeoBodnar> I want it to float forever XD
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[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> Alphasat is in orbit
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> seems to be one of the first satellites UK Space Agency participated inb
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> -b
[20:57] <AF5LI_QRL> im not supposed to expect anything. i have no idea how it is going on LeoBodnar. i have no experience at all ;P
[20:57] <fsphil> shouldn't they at least have waited for the beta?
[20:57] <bertrik> Lunar_Lander: can we receive it somehow?
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> don't know, I don't even know what exactly it does
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, yea :P
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[20:59] <AF5LI_QRL> LeoBodnar: but i hope so thats floating for a long time. because in that case the next step would be solar.
[20:59] <steve_2e0vet> Geoff-G8DHE, have u replaced the DVB socket with an sma one
[21:00] <LeoBodnar> Yes, solar is the way to go!
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[21:03] <cyclops> Hi!
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[21:04] <AF5LI_QRL> hi cyclops
[21:05] <cyclops> :D
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, what will B-9 do?
[21:05] <chrisstubbs> ooerr getting some strange signal shifts from this rfm22b
[21:06] <LeoBodnar> No idea yet, fiddling with timing and GPS power control now.
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> steve_2e0vet,Yes the board I have allows that very easily, just cut across the wdth of the board and then slide on and sodered an SMA infront of the ESD diode.
[21:07] <Upu> ping craag
[21:07] <craag> Upu:
[21:07] <Upu> PM
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[21:11] <cyclops> Upu: you are testing the habdu arent you? :P
[21:11] <Upu> lol
[21:11] <Upu> next week cyclops :)
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[21:11] <Upu> I'll ship you one :)
[21:11] <Upu> I'm going to be launching one in 2 weeks
[21:11] <Upu> full up test
[21:11] <ibanezmatt13> Upu was the parcel for those wires small enough to get through the letterbox?
[21:12] <Upu> you can have one before as long as you accept I've not tested it in flight
[21:12] <Upu> ibanezmatt13 yes
[21:12] <Upu> just a normal letter
[21:12] <Upu> I put 4 harnesses in
[21:12] <Upu> one was a double to link the 5 and 3v to one power wire
[21:12] <cyclops> I do accept
[21:13] <ibanezmatt13> well, I've heard from my Grandma that I got a message through the post box saying something couldn't be delivered and is at the sorting office... You know what that means Upu
[21:13] <Upu> I suspected as much
[21:13] <chrisstubbs> Upu are you free for a bit to talk about the ublox cyclic mode?
[21:13] <Upu> ibanezmatt13 it was definitely just a letter
[21:13] <Upu> let me go walk dog
[21:13] <Upu> and then I'll be with you chrisstubbs
[21:13] <chrisstubbs> Awesome, cheers :D
[21:13] <Upu> 15 mins
[21:13] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: it means the tracker is here
[21:13] <Upu> oh
[21:13] <ibanezmatt13> the lost one
[21:13] <Upu> they returned it!
[21:13] <Upu> awesome sauce
[21:13] <ibanezmatt13> Well if the wires can fit through, what else can it be?
[21:13] <ibanezmatt13> :)
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[21:14] <Upu> afk
[21:14] <Willdude123> /windoe 12
[21:14] <Willdude123> Ack
[21:16] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Cheers all
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[21:17] <PB0NER> hi, seem to have trouble finding cheapo frequency
[21:17] <fsphil> cheapo ran out of batteries
[21:17] <PB0NER> seems gone from dl-fldigi
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[21:18] <chrisstubbs> oo good reminder
[21:18] <fsphil> yea the flight doc has expired
[21:18] <chrisstubbs> need to take my printscreens
[21:18] <fsphil> it's getting crowded on there
[21:18] <chrisstubbs> Filter ftw
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[21:20] <Willdude123> Ah. Finally settled down in the hotel room. 200 kbps internet, unless you pay them ten euros a day. I never thought I would be so untroubled by hellishly slow internet.
[21:20] <chrisstubbs> fsphil, do you have any idea if I can get a data download of all my data (as it cuts off at midnight where the doc expired)
[21:21] <Willdude123> I realized on the plane here that some bands put the facebook message sound into their songs just to confuse people. I swear I heard it during thr Protest The Herp album I was listening to.
[21:21] <Willdude123> I had a good read of the ubx protocol spec
[21:22] <PB0NER> thanks
[21:22] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, do you want testing? haha
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[21:22] <cyclops> Upu send it no problem :D
[21:23] <fsphil> chrisstubbs: suspect that'll be a Daniel one.. though I might be able to dump the raw strings
[21:23] <chrisstubbs> If possible, i can process the raws
[21:23] <chrisstubbs> will it only be checksum passed ones/
[21:23] <fsphil> yea.. lemme see if I can
[21:23] <chrisstubbs> Cheers!
[21:24] <Willdude123> I promise I got no lock for 30 minutes
[21:24] <Willdude123> What exactly is this dominoex thing?
[21:25] <LeoBodnar> Strange detours KT5TK_QRL - very repeatable pattern
[21:26] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, kinda similar principle to rtty, it uses more than one tone to send the data
[21:26] <chrisstubbs> shift between tones is much lower though
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[21:35] <fsphil> chrisstubbs: http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/cheapo.txt
[21:35] <fsphil> looks like it reset
[21:35] <fsphil> near the end
[21:35] <chrisstubbs> Ah yeah
[21:35] <chrisstubbs> regulator probably dropped out and came back for a few mins
[21:35] <chrisstubbs> Cheers :)
[21:35] <fsphil> that may not necessarly be in order
[21:36] <fsphil> though it seems to be
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[21:43] Nick change: DL7AD -> AF5LI
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[21:53] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar, have you had any of your floaty payloads found?
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[22:01] <Laurenceb__> Anthony Weiner
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> what is a good ascent rate for a Hwoyee that you shouldn't get below to ensure burst?
[22:02] <Laurenceb__> best case of nomnative determinism ever
[22:02] <LeoBodnar> Not yet chrisstubbs :)
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[22:15] <LeoBodnar> 12 sats! Active antenna?
[22:16] <KT5TK_QRL> No, actually the antenna is a provisional lambda /4 stub for 1.5 GHz
[22:17] <KT5TK_QRL> We had to remove the chip antenna before launch because it seemed to have a short cut
[22:18] <LeoBodnar> I zapped one MAX-7 module this way (probably)
[22:18] <LeoBodnar> Bare wire?
[22:18] <KT5TK_QRL> Well just insulated wire
[22:19] <KT5TK_QRL> Did you touch the + pole of the battery?
[22:19] <AF5LI_QRL> KT5TK_QRL the temperature is rising again\
[22:19] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-5/Images/3.jpg
[22:19] <Laurenceb__> http://amsat-uk.org/?attachment_id=11166
[22:20] <Laurenceb__> multiple balloons?
[22:20] <LeoBodnar> No idea, have been young and foolish two weeks ago
[22:21] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, similar to B5, just insulated wire
[22:21] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, 3 foil balloons. 32" each
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[22:22] <KT5TK_QRL> That AMSAT pic was from about 1 year ago
[22:23] <KT5TK_QRL> Here is the current launch: http://kt5tk.wordpress.com
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[22:24] <arko> http://kt5tk.wordpress.com/#jp-carousel-423
[22:24] <arko> haha
[22:24] <arko> that looks good
[22:24] <Laurenceb__> lol
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[22:25] <AF5LI_QRL> you misplaced fork and knife thomas
[22:25] <Laurenceb__> typical texas food :P
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[22:26] <LeoBodnar> Haha! It's a toothpick
[22:26] <KT5TK_QRL> That's the classical Pecan Pie photo for every new Pecan tracker generation :)
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[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:29] <AF5LI_QRL> i thought everytime, leos balloon is going to be the slowest balloon ever. but now i think thats not the case ^^
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[22:30] <LeoBodnar> Yes, this actually moves in one direction but very slowly!!
[22:31] <AF5LI_QRL> it was supposed to move to mexico.
[22:31] <AF5LI_QRL> acually
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[22:33] <LeoBodnar> Any idea why GPS usage went from 10% to 40%?
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[22:36] <LeoBodnar> KT5TK: Any idea why GPS usage went from 10% to 40%?
[22:36] <LeoBodnar> Daytime mode?
[22:38] <KT5TK_QRL> Nope. There is no such thing as a day/night mode
[22:39] <KT5TK_QRL> When the GPS regulator pin is in disabled mode, then it's more or less floating. I just measure the voltage.
[22:39] <KT5TK_QRL> It may be that the capacitor is still slightly charged
[22:40] <LeoBodnar> OK. Don't they have pull-down on it?
[22:41] <LeoBodnar> Voltage on the GPS Vcc?
[22:41] <LeoBodnar> Or enable pin?
[22:41] <KT5TK_QRL> Not sure, but likely not on the main power input
[22:41] <KT5TK_QRL> Voltage on the GPS supply pin
[22:41] <LeoBodnar> Gotcha
[22:42] <LeoBodnar> Maybe leaking via I/O pins?
[22:42] <KT5TK_QRL> When the GPS is off, the voltage will drop below the PN voltage and then it becomes high impedance
[22:43] <KT5TK_QRL> Then the cap may keep some charge.
[22:43] <LeoBodnar> Do you keep UART Tx pin on MCU in high state or tristate it?
[22:44] <KT5TK_QRL> I'd have to look that up in the code, but I think in sleep mode they're tri state
[22:44] <steve_2e0vet> has anyone configured and extra usb on the arduino board to use hardware serial for the ublox
[22:45] <KT5TK_QRL> But I do a full reset on the GPS each cycle
[22:45] <LeoBodnar> If you don't do it yourself MCUs tend to maintain the i/o state when going into sleep
[22:46] <LeoBodnar> Atmega might be different
[22:46] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, but there is some special stuff with brownout protection and sleep motdes on a ATMega
[22:46] <KT5TK_QRL> modes^
[22:46] <KT5TK_QRL> I don't remember exactly
[22:47] <LeoBodnar> OK, I speak from a position of complete ignorance when it comes to Atmel so don't pay attention. Just curious! :)
[22:47] <LeoBodnar> But my 1st thought was that i/o pins in high state provide phantom power to GPS.
[22:48] <LeoBodnar> This is usually the 1st thing to check in micropower designs.
[22:48] <KT5TK_QRL> I essentially put the GPS and the MCU itself in a deep sleep mode so that the whole circuit consumes maybe 5 mA or less
[22:48] <LeoBodnar> 5mA is massive! :)
[22:49] <LeoBodnar> DO you shut down TCXOs as well?
[22:49] <KT5TK_QRL> When the MCU wakes up, it'll reset the GPS and send over the high altitude config
[22:49] <KT5TK_QRL> yes I do
[22:49] <LeoBodnar> I see. I am sure that you can get below 1mA easily.
[22:49] <KT5TK_QRL> I only have it on while I have the transmitter enabled
[22:49] <LeoBodnar> Cool.
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[22:50] <KT5TK_QRL> I just can't measure that low currents XD
[22:51] <LeoBodnar> http://www.adafruit.com/products/882 or bodge something from an instrumentation opamp and a resistior :)
[22:51] <mattbrejza> 10ohm resistor and multimeter?
[22:52] <LeoBodnar> ANy instrumentation opamp and a resistor = three components
[22:52] <LeoBodnar> including gain setting R
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[22:52] <mattbrejza> yea but the opamp doesnt have leads coming out of it and a nice LCD display with a readout
[22:53] <KT5TK_QRL> uCurrent costs more than a Pecan ;)
[22:53] <LeoBodnar> When the thing wakes up it will kill itself over 10 ohm resistor V drop :)
[22:53] <LeoBodnar> Dave's a good bloke
[22:53] <mattbrejza> well 1ohm
[22:53] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, that was exactly my problem
[22:53] <mattbrejza> a multimeter does .1mV so should be fine
[22:54] <LeoBodnar> Sorry, "Dave's f mate"
[22:54] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, but my cheap ones have a higher self resistance
[22:54] <LeoBodnar> * good mate"
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[22:54] <LeoBodnar> Just do it once and you are set for life :)
[22:55] <LeoBodnar> It's fun chasing uAmps
[22:55] <KT5TK_QRL> Note that im my lab I do DNA testing, not electronics
[22:55] <KT5TK_QRL> Launching balloons is just a fun hobby for me.
[22:56] <KT5TK_QRL> So I don't have those tools available
[22:57] <KT5TK_QRL> And you really don't need them
[22:57] <KT5TK_QRL> <5 mA is precise enough for me.
[22:57] <KT5TK_QRL> Better test the tracker in operation.
[22:58] <mattbrejza> every decent habbing lab should contain: logic analyser, multimeter, scope, fine soldering iron, air reflow, IR oven, network analyser, spectrum analyser right?
[22:58] <KT5TK_QRL> :)
[22:58] <mattbrejza> RF sig gen (idk, testing the uplink rx)
[22:59] <mattbrejza> temperatire test chamber
[22:59] <LeoBodnar> mattbrejza: when you buy your first Agilent from your pay money we'll talk again :)
[22:59] <craag> variable psu
[22:59] <mattbrejza> forgot that one
[23:00] <mattbrejza> yea i dont intend to buy any of that (the last two anyway) with my own money
[23:00] <craag> Upto 900v for the older circuit designs..
[23:01] <LeoBodnar> Not everyone is lucky to have access to these. I definitely don't :(
[23:01] <mattbrejza> and all the mechanical tools
[23:01] <mattbrejza> i own very few, but have access to all of those if i ask nicely enough
[23:02] <mattbrejza> not that ive yet found a use for the netan
[23:02] <mattbrejza> oh almost forgot, RF power meter
[23:02] <mattbrejza> actually is there a temperature chamber in labs craag ? not too sure ive seen one
[23:03] <craag> I haven't
[23:03] <craag> Although glacsweb have a cold one I think
[23:04] <craag> Although I have a suspiscion it's a repurposed mini fridge/freezer.
[23:04] <mattbrejza> id imagine its one of the cheaper things lying around
[23:04] <mattbrejza> i used one last year at summer work that went down to -55
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[23:04] <mattbrejza> which is really quite cold
[23:04] <craag> youch, yeah
[23:05] <mattbrejza> there is a lab next to my office for electronics, but one of the machines is hooked up to a nitrogen tank, yet to work that one out
[23:06] <craag> meh, probably just some mild cpu overclocking
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[23:07] <mattbrejza> i dont think its liquid
[23:12] <craag> gn
[23:14] <mattbrejza> night
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[23:18] <Steve_2E0VET> any one familier with the USB DVB dongles
[23:21] <KT5TK_QRL> Go ahead and ask. Not sure if I can help
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[23:21] <Steve_2E0VET> just wondered if i can use an external antenna, i.e one on the house
[23:22] <KT5TK_QRL> Depends, but generally yes.
[23:22] <KT5TK_QRL> What are you trying to receive?
[23:22] <Steve_2E0VET> do i need any particular one.
[23:22] <Steve_2E0VET> i'm trying to track the ballons
[23:23] <KT5TK_QRL> So you want to use your TV antenna for that?
[23:23] <Steve_2E0VET> a antenna for the DVB dongle
[23:23] <Steve_2E0VET> the dvb dongles or so i heard can recieve 434
[23:24] <KT5TK_QRL> That might fairly work, but usually you can't point those antennas in alternating directions
[23:24] <Steve_2E0VET> mhz
[23:24] <KT5TK_QRL> Most TV antennas might cover 434 MHz
[23:24] <KT5TK_QRL> but they're not great
[23:24] <Steve_2E0VET> no i appriciate that, but i cannot do anting with the antenna supplied i get absolutly nothing in the house with it
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[23:25] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes those plain dongles are insensitive.
[23:25] <Steve_2E0VET> oh ok i didnt know that, so i could probably test my dongle for tv/radio just using the current house antenna]
[23:25] <KT5TK_QRL> They are made for killowatt TV stations and the trackers are in the milliwatt range
[23:25] <Steve_2E0VET> i have a booster for it
[23:26] <Steve_2E0VET> not sure what it is called
[23:26] <KT5TK_QRL> It's some kind of preamp and it should work to a certain degree
[23:27] <Steve_2E0VET> well i think its time for bed been playing with the arduino all evening and i knackered, trying to get another usb socket working on it and failed
[23:27] <KT5TK_QRL> For tracking balloons you should get a low noise preamp and a good antenna on the roof if possible.
[23:27] <KT5TK_QRL> e.g. http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=72_73&product_id=83
[23:28] <Steve_2E0VET> thats the one i got, was just looking for it lol
[23:29] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, that's a good one, but you also need a good antenna
[23:30] <KT5TK_QRL> No matter what antenna you want to use, the key is that it should be mounted as high as possible
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[23:31] <KT5TK_QRL> and outdoors of course
[23:32] <Steve_2E0VET> can you recommend one?
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[23:32] <Steve_2E0VET> or just any decent one
[23:34] <KT5TK_QRL> I'm in the US, so I probably can't suggest something good for you because I'm not too familiar what you have available
[23:34] <Steve_2E0VET> no probs, thanks anyway
[23:34] <KT5TK_QRL> There are two general types of antennas: Omnidirectional and directional antennas
[23:35] <KT5TK_QRL> directional antennas have better gain (usually) but need a rotor on the roof and are expensive
[23:35] <KT5TK_QRL> So you likely want an omnidirectional one
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[23:37] <KT5TK_QRL> You can build a vertical antenna (omnidirectional) by yourself by attaching a coax cable to a vertical radiator. That is a tube or strong wire in resonant wavelength
[23:38] <KT5TK_QRL> Simplest form is a ground plane
[23:38] <LeoBodnar> KT5TK_QRL: Do you have 5mA consumption from the AA cell when idle?
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[23:40] <KT5TK_QRL> LeoBodnar: That's what I measured. But my meter doesn't really cover that range in low resistance mode
[23:40] <LeoBodnar> OK
[23:41] <gonzo___> bit late into the chat here
[23:41] <LeoBodnar> I am measuring current after the DCDC converter and I am getting 1.4mA in sleep mode. But I keep TCXO running
[23:41] <gonzo___> but uk tv antannas can be banded form between 500 and 800meg
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[23:42] <LeoBodnar> YOu should be getting less then 1mA if you are shutting TCXO down
[23:42] <gonzo___> ant even in their band they are pretty terrible
[23:43] <gonzo___> Steve_2E0VET, for har rx, see if you can find a commercial white stivk colinear that covers 70cm
[23:44] <gonzo___> and if using a cheap dongle you really do need a preamp. the habamp is ideal as it gas a filter to keep other signals out
[23:44] <gonzo___> if you are only using the antenna for rx, put the hab amp as close to the ant as practical
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[23:53] <cyclops> hi
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[00:00] --- Fri Jul 26 2013