highaltitude.log.20130724

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[00:26] <jiffe98> anyone messed with gorilla glue for high altitude projects? wondering how it holds up
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[00:32] <SpeedEvil> I would have thought it would get quite hard
[00:32] <SpeedEvil> At low temps.
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[00:42] <morteh_> I get quite hard sometimes
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[00:59] <jiffe98> yeah, I figured that would be the case for most glues
[00:59] <jiffe98> guy that built the box built it wall by wall and used gorilla glue
[00:59] <jiffe98> its pretty light but that was my only concern
[01:00] <heathkid> there are special glues specifically for foam
[01:02] <heathkid> for example: http://www.hobby-lobby.com/uhu_por_glue_for_styrofoam_1035151_prd1.htm
[01:03] <heathkid> I've never bought it or from them... it's just an example...
[01:03] <heathkid> someone here may have used UHU Por Glue
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[02:07] <DL7AD> good evening
[02:07] <heathkid> hello DL7AD
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[02:22] <mazzanet> Darkside:
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[02:26] <Darkside> mazzanet:
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[03:08] <KT5TK> I've soldered up my first new Pecan Pico 4 tracker last night. Here are some pictures in case someone is interested: http://kt5tk.wordpress.com
[03:24] <DL7AD> like
[04:24] <Darkside> KT5TK: why th ecolour sensor?
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[05:16] <arko> KT5TK yo
[05:16] <arko> nice work on the pecan pico
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[05:23] <heathkid> no kidding!
[05:23] <heathkid> really nice work!
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[05:31] <arko> KT5TK: I got some questions about the Si4464
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[05:54] <x-f> http://amsat-uk.org/2013/07/23/uk-strand-1-cubesat-is-back/
[05:54] <x-f> URL says it all
[05:54] <x-f> good morning!
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[05:59] <arko> yay!
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[06:30] <maze> 1
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[07:04] <KT5TK> Sorry, I was afk, soldering a bunch of 915 MHz preamps
[07:05] <arko> nice
[07:05] <arko> i'm getting some terrible frequency drift on this chip
[07:06] <KT5TK> Darkside: I added a color sensor because I wanted a day/night sensor. While I needed just a photodiode I thought RGB was more flexible
[07:06] <KT5TK> arko: What oscillator are you using?
[07:06] <arko> 30Mhz external
[07:07] <KT5TK> Are you sure that you connected it to the Xout pin of the Si4464?
[07:07] <KT5TK> NOT Xin pin
[07:08] <arko> hmm
[07:08] <arko> i dont follow
[07:08] <arko> one pin of the crystal is on xin
[07:09] <arko> and the other pin is on xout
[07:09] <KT5TK> It's misleading in the datasheet
[07:09] <arko> oh?
[07:09] <KT5TK> For some reason you must insert your oscillator signal to the Xout pin
[07:10] <arko> are you sure?
[07:10] <KT5TK> if the internal oscillator is off, then the Xin pin is disconnected.
[07:10] <arko> its booting and transmitting at the correct freq
[07:10] <KT5TK> Yes, this took me several weeks to find out
[07:10] <arko> so where does the other leg for the crystal go?
[07:10] <KT5TK> it's probably swinging free
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[07:11] <KT5TK> the Xin is floating
[07:11] <arko> yeah, its very slowly drifting
[07:11] <KT5TK> Do you want to do FM or rtty with it?
[07:11] <arko> rtty
[07:12] <arko> its mostly working
[07:12] <KT5TK> ah, then you probably need a TCXO
[07:12] <UpuWork> morning all
[07:12] <arko> morning UpuWork
[07:12] <KT5TK> morning Upu
[07:13] Action: UpuWork is watching as I have a SI4060 based board sat here waiting to be programmed
[07:14] <arko> UpuWork: good news is i have rtty working..ish http://i.imgur.com/yIM5vZO.png
[07:14] <arko> but look as those wiggles
[07:14] <arko> it's killin me
[07:14] <UpuWork> getting there :)
[07:14] <arko> frequency is drifting
[07:14] <arko> :)
[07:15] <UpuWork> does yours have a TXCO on it ?
[07:15] <KT5TK> I have tried rtty also, but it was drifting a lot as well. Therefore I have now a GPIO pin connected to the ATMega and I'll try to let the Si4464 generate the FSK
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[07:15] <KT5TK> I have a pin compatible TCVCXO here but I haven't tried it yet
[07:15] <arko> yeah
[07:16] <arko> so i had to use the gpio
[07:16] <arko> i kaynar wired a pin
[07:16] <arko> originally i was hoping to do rtty over the fifo buffer, but the buffer is too small
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[07:17] <arko> so i'm going to do another board run once i have a full gps->mcu->rtty functioning device
[07:17] <arko> would suck to do another airwire :P
[07:18] <arko> KT5TK so a crystal like in the datasheet is wrong?
[07:18] <KT5TK> The Si4464 is primarily made for FM modes. I mainly do AFSK1200. But it should be possible to generate clean rtty with a TCXO
[07:18] <arko> that seems wrong that its wrong :P
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[07:19] <KT5TK> If you do 200k wide FSK there is no problem with a crystal
[07:19] <arko> yeah
[07:19] <arko> found that out
[07:19] <arko> so at first i had it at 500k
[07:19] <arko> worked like a charm
[07:20] <arko> brought it down to 1k
[07:20] <arko> it's moving around like crazy
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[07:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> G'Morning
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[07:25] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Guys
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[07:32] <chrisstubbs> Morning steve
[07:33] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi chrisstubbs :-)
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[07:34] <G0TDJ_Steve> I've been called on the radio. Just having a gas with my Mate Lee
[07:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> Is anything going up today?
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[07:47] Action: G4KLX_Jonathan slaps Jonathan_G4KLX around a bit with a large trout
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[07:53] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey chrisstubbs Did you find out why CHEAPO didn't behave the other day?
[07:54] <arko> LeoBodnar: did you notice any frequency drift with the Si443x?
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[07:57] <Jonathan_G4KLX> B-8 is up, I'll try tracking it in a bit.
[07:57] <LeoBodnar> B-8 has launched just now on 434.500 MHZ
[07:57] <arko> nice!!
[07:58] <arko> KT5TK: did you look at the POWER_UP register?
[07:58] <arko> look at the XTAL_OPTIONS bit
[07:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> cheers LeoBodnar
[07:59] <arko> B-8 is solar?
[08:02] <LeoBodnar> Not solar just yet, but getting ready for it.
[08:02] <gonzo__> was that announced?
[08:02] <arko> :)
[08:02] <gonzo__> ok, announced before just then!
[08:02] <fsphil> Leo should announce when he's not launching
[08:03] <arko> lol\
[08:03] <gonzo__> hehe that is true.
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[08:03] <gonzo__> But again, the LNA power is off at home. If I know there is a launch I can power the shed up
[08:04] <fsphil> remote controlled power switches
[08:04] <fsphil> I'd love a few of those, controlled via computer
[08:05] <gonzo__> did build some on a velleman board, buit the thing just does not seem to want to talk on usb anymore. Gone DFA?
[08:06] <gonzo__> I have a 6port sma relay to switch antennas and cd relays for power and to select yagi/omni
[08:06] <gonzo__> just needs that usb junk to work
[08:06] <gonzo__> cd=dc
[08:07] <Jonathan_G4KLX> gonzo__: I'd go with an Arduino for control these days, I used the K8055 in 2009 as I didn't know any better.
[08:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> Whats B8's target altitude LeoBodnar?
[08:09] <fsphil> I have a K8055 in the attic somewhere
[08:10] <fsphil> I can update the info box shortly if someone else hasn't already
[08:10] <gonzo__> actually, the k8055 was originally used on our DV repeater with your SW. retired it when it went over to a hardware modem board
[08:10] <gonzo__> will have a listen for B8, but there is a lot of loss in the system now
[08:15] <Jonathan_G4KLX> gonzo__: I know, I wrote the DV software!
[08:17] <chrisstubbs> G0TDJ_Steve: I think becuase the ublox was in power save mode, the 808 interfered and when the ublox lost fix. it reset itself
[08:17] <chrisstubbs> and came out of flight mode
[08:17] <chrisstubbs> the code now just sticks it in flight mode once a second. Might be flying it again this evening!
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[08:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh right, so you were correct the other day about the need for shielding.
[08:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> I look forward to that chrisstubbs
[08:18] <fsphil> I send the flight mode command about once a minute
[08:19] <chrisstubbs> the 808 dosent need sheilding, it needs blending
[08:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL
[08:20] <chrisstubbs> fsphil: I figured you cant really do it too much, i was thinking about querying the mode and changing it if not right. however you may as well drop the check command and just set it
[08:21] <fsphil> I was paranoid about the command to change mode affecting the position somehow
[08:21] <fsphil> though if it's setting a mode it's already in, I doubt it would
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[08:24] <gonzo__> Jonathan_G4KLX, yep, I did say YOUR sw. i recognised the callsign when you first joined.
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[08:25] <chrisstubbs> Well we should find out tonight ;)
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[08:26] <Jonathan_G4KLX> gonzo__: Fame :-)
[08:26] <G0TDJ_Steve> I hope the prevailing wind is Southerly chrisstubbs
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[08:27] <LazyLeopard> What's B-8s pattern of transmissions? Beeps for N minutes then M position lines?
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[08:29] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... N is about 4 and M is 2?
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[08:29] <LeoBodnar> Yes, trying to conserve some power and see what happens
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[08:30] <LeoBodnar> I cn't shut down blooming MAX-6, it just keeps waking up even if you don't want to. I'll take a MOSFET to it next time.
[08:30] <LeoBodnar> can't lol
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[08:45] <UpuWork> is this payload only transmitting occasionally ?
[08:46] <G0TDJ_Steve> Intermittent for power saving UpuWork
[08:46] <UpuWork> is it pipping ?
[08:46] <G0TDJ_Steve> Not sure. I havent aquired yet
[08:46] <UpuWork> I think I have it
[08:46] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good oh
[08:46] <LazyL_M0LEP> Yes, pips for about 4 minutes, then two position lines.
[08:46] <UpuWork> 3 sec pips ?
[08:47] <LazyL_M0LEP> Roughly
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[08:48] <UpuWork> yeah I see it
[08:49] <LazyL_M0LEP> Dial 34.5 offset 1425 or therabouts
[08:49] <LazyL_M0LEP> 434.5 even
[08:49] <daveake> Another 4 mins roughly till the next sentences
[08:49] <daveake> er
[08:49] <daveake> 3
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[08:50] <Rob_m0dts> pico heading my way... that's rare!
[08:51] <daveake> yes you should have this one for a long while!
[08:51] <Rob_m0dts> not back in from work till 2230 but wil ok out for it.
[08:52] <Rob_m0dts> *will look
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[09:14] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
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[09:20] Nick change: Guest19906 -> nick_
[09:22] <Lunar_LanderU> ed recently discussed with me using a bipolar NPN transistor for inducing the reset on the electrometer, and I just found this http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/23190/why-do-you-need-2-resistors-when-hooking-up-a-transistor-as-a-switch
[09:23] <Lunar_LanderU> my question would indeed be, do you need R2?
[09:24] <Lunar_LanderU> if I read that correctly, R2 helps to shut the transistor off
[09:24] <Lunar_LanderU> if there is a LOW signal on B
[09:24] <Lunar_LanderU> but do you need that?
[09:26] <fsphil> if you don't and your IO pin is floating, the transistor may switch on
[09:26] <Lunar_LanderU> which is bad
[09:26] <Lunar_LanderU> so better include it
[09:26] <daveake> Yes
[09:26] <fsphil> the pin may float for a moment after the microcontroller switches on
[09:26] <Lunar_LanderU> also ed recommended 100k, my prof said 1k is well enough
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[09:26] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[09:27] <fsphil> 100k is fine
[09:27] <daveake> In practice it'll probably be just fine without it, but it's worth adding
[09:27] <Lunar_LanderU> ok
[09:27] <LeoBodnar> If your circuit might end up with high impedance on R1 like when MCU comes out of reset you may want R2 as protection against transistor tuning on from spurious signals.
[09:27] <Jonathan_G4KLX> I'd also include a decoupling capacitor from the base to ground, especially in the presence of RF.
[09:27] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[09:28] <Lunar_LanderU> ah ok, hanks
[09:28] <Lunar_LanderU> +t
[09:28] <Lunar_LanderU> I suppose 100k is also a good value for R2?
[09:28] <Lunar_LanderU> or 10k-100k
[09:28] <Lunar_LanderU> in that range
[09:28] <LeoBodnar> If it is driven with low impedance driver like CMOS output then you might as well omit it.
[09:29] <LeoBodnar> Yes, should be OK.
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[09:29] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks to all
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[09:32] <Rob_m0dts> starting to hear B8 domino visible but weak so far.
[09:41] <Rob_m0dts> good signal now
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[09:42] <Piet0r> Hi
[09:43] <Piet0r> Didn't I also see B8 a few days ago?
[09:43] <Piet0r> Is it re-launched?
[09:45] <LazyL_M0LEP> It was testing a few days back.
[09:47] ibanezmatt13 (b0e395fa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.176.227.149.250) joined #highaltitude.
[09:47] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning
[09:47] EI4ESB (6d4d13cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.77.19.207) joined #highaltitude.
[09:47] <ibanezmatt13> ping daveake
[09:48] BRS38937 (5207d160@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.7.209.96) joined #highaltitude.
[09:48] <Willdude123> Hi
[09:48] <BRS38937> Hi
[09:48] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Willdude123
[09:48] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: on the Pi N Chips board, how is the digital temperature sensor connected to the Pi? I2c?
[09:49] <daveake> It's a DS18B20
[09:49] <daveake> Which isnt i2c
[09:49] <daveake> It's "One Wire" (though "one" is "three" really)
[09:50] <daveake> Google for that chip and "raspberry pi" there's plenty of info
[09:50] <ibanezmatt13> I see. Will do that now. Thanks daveake
[09:52] <fsphil> I like 1-wire. it's easier than i2c
[09:52] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: whats the free lift on B8?
[09:52] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: on the Pi n chips board, is the data pin for the DS18B20 connected to pin 7 on the GPIO? (GPIO 4 I think) ?
[09:54] <daveake> Have a look at the diagram
[09:54] <Laurenceb> looks about 1m/s ascent, so higher than previous
[09:54] <daveake> It's supposed to be GPI4 because that's what Raspbian expects
[09:54] <daveake> GPIO4
[09:54] Action: Laurenceb guesses 2 grams
[09:54] <Laurenceb> be interesting to see if it floats ok
[09:55] <Laurenceb> is there a prediction for this?
[09:57] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: 1.3 grams
[09:58] <LeoBodnar> Higher ascent rate due to sunshine heating. I used to launch during evenings before.
[09:59] chrisg7ogx (5699917e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.153.145.126) joined #highaltitude.
[09:59] <Laurenceb> ah
[09:59] <Laurenceb> why not go for higher free lift?
[09:59] <chrisg7ogx> can someone give me a dial freq for b8 please peeps?
[09:59] <Laurenceb> might make it more stable
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[09:59] <Laurenceb> you are just trying a lower power mode with this flight?
[10:00] <LeoBodnar> Predicted to float at 6380m during the daytime peak.
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[10:01] <Jonathan_G4KLX> I make it on 434.500
[10:01] <chrisg7ogx> tks Jonathan
[10:01] Action: mfa298_ likes Leo's flights, Turn on radio and dl-fldig, leave it and I already have partial decodes.
[10:02] <Jonathan_G4KLX> It's sending a short carrier every second or so most of the time.
[10:02] <chrisg7ogx> nothing here
[10:03] <Jonathan_G4KLX> Where are you?
[10:03] <mfa298_> I think I need to setup a special config directory for Leo's flights and put the radio frequency into a memory. It's that stable (even between flights) :D
[10:06] <BRS38937> B* is on 434.5003 be patient set radio to USB it only beacons evry 5 mins or so listen for bleeps and look for bars on your screen set auto config, its not strong on the south coast I can hear it but not got a green out of it y et
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[10:07] <BRS38937> next beacon in about 2 half mins
[10:07] Nick change: uwe__ -> uwe_
[10:08] <LeoBodnar> Sorry, B-8 is quite minimalist in what it transmits :-)
[10:09] <BRS38937> just beaconed...
[10:09] <BRS38937> may be usefull to have 5 times more beacons pretty please sir!!!
[10:09] <Jonathan_G4KLX> I think it's for power saving.
[10:10] <Laurenceb> http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02418/dotcom2_2418655k.jpg
[10:10] <chrisg7ogx> is it having a snooze now?
[10:10] <BRS38937> take a car battery up then!!!!
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[10:10] <mfa298_> I've wondered whether it would help if the beacons started at set times. Might make finding it easier when you don't have it.
[10:10] <mattbrejza> tbh its meeting the nyquist sampling criteria, no need to send any more data
[10:10] <Jonathan_G4KLX> LeoBodnar: Am I right in saying that you send a short carrier every second or so, and then about ten seconds before the beacon you miss one out, and then just before the beacon you send a double "blip"?
[10:10] <chrisg7ogx> That's what threw me then and also not having the antenna plugged in!
[10:11] <Laurenceb> no sign of float
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[10:13] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Oh whats the timing between beacons on B-8 ?
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[10:14] <BRS38937> about 5 mins +- few seconds
[10:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> OK I
[10:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> ll assume the last one was the last received time
[10:15] <LeoBodnar> Jonathan_G4KLX: I don't have multitasking inside this one so it pauses to collect data from GPS. And because you can hit GPS at any time inside its internal update cycle it will take any time to return data from 0 to 5 seconds. THis will sound like a missing beep or extended pause.
[10:15] <LeoBodnar> It's not very tidy on the air but simple to implement.
[10:16] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> About 1 miute ?
[10:16] <Jonathan_G4KLX> LeoBodnar: It's also good because it gives you warning of an impending beacon if you've got the PC unplugged.
[10:16] <BRS38937> Does it really matter? - its more of a challage for us, and keeps it simple
[10:16] <LeoBodnar> Yes, double blip is just before DominoEx burst
[10:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Got it
[10:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> At least to tune to!
[10:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I'm mobile at present trying to tune in is fun ;-) Not sure the Dongle is stable yet either!
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[10:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> Sorry I can't join you on this one LeoBodnar I'm just not high enough :-)
[10:18] <LeoBodnar> I admit having blips lined up to GPS timing is the thing to go with. WIll look at it next time
[10:18] <UpuWork> what battery is it LeoBodnar ?
[10:18] <LeoBodnar> G0TDJ_Steve: There will be more stuff going your way I am sure :-)
[10:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-)
[10:18] <BRS38937> the compter locked last time did anyone get that problem?
[10:18] <LeoBodnar> AA Energizer Lithium
[10:18] <UpuWork> should last for days at this rate :)
[10:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> LeoBodnar: I'm trying to get a friend of mine locally interested in HAB. He's all set up to decode but nothing has come our way for a few days. Hopefully soon.
[10:19] <UpuWork> FCD Pro+ is way more sensitive
[10:19] <LeoBodnar> I can't put MAX-6 to sleep! It just keeps waking up - little restless rascal.
[10:20] <UpuWork> P fet on power
[10:20] <LeoBodnar> Oh, I want Betty's Fat Rascal now!
[10:20] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Works fine on a straight Dongle with HABAMP
[10:20] <UpuWork> and wire battery to vbatt
[10:20] <LeoBodnar> I miss Bettys shops
[10:20] <G0TDJ_Steve> LeoBodnar: Can't you literally power down the MAX-6 or does it take too long to acquire sats?
[10:21] <LeoBodnar> I'll go radical next time - MOSFET to cut the power (leave VBATT on)
[10:21] <BRS38937> just beaconed
[10:21] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Partial decode, dongle still warming up!
[10:21] <UpuWork> uses power better to link battery to vbatt and just turn it off
[10:21] <UpuWork> the circuit works I use it on mine
[10:21] <LeoBodnar> It amazes me why one has to - it's not 1980's
[10:21] <mattbrejza> low power mode not enough then?
[10:22] <LeoBodnar> No, 10mA+ current all the time
[10:22] <mattbrejza> it is still tracking though, but i thought there was a deeper power state
[10:23] <LeoBodnar> UBLOX-6 protocol spec: "On firmware 7.03, on/off operation is not available." What this is all about?! :-/
[10:23] <UpuWork> http://i.imgur.com/fmzDRts.png
[10:24] <LeoBodnar> THis comes after a lengthy explanation how ON/OFF operation actually works.
[10:24] <LeoBodnar> Approve. Why R10?
[10:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Got it
[10:25] <LeoBodnar> V_BACKUP to GND? Surely a mistake?
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[10:29] <zyp> doesn't seem so surely to me, if you don't have a backup battery, why not?
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[10:30] <UpuWork> ah yes
[10:30] <UpuWork> well done you've spotted the dumb mistake
[10:30] <LeoBodnar> You'll lose all settings if its GND
[10:31] <UpuWork> I know
[10:31] <UpuWork> it was a mistake
[10:31] <UpuWork> will fix on rev2
[10:31] <LeoBodnar> Get some scalpel blades from Sheffield :)
[10:31] <UpuWork> yeah that is one way :)
[10:32] <mattbrejza> are you sure you cant put it to sleep, im fairly sure thats what kraken does
[10:33] <LeoBodnar> Maybe through some jumping through hoops but life is too short mattbrejza :) Just when you think it's down it comes back for no reason and demands 40-50mA
[10:33] <mattbrejza> ah
[10:33] <LeoBodnar> Do you have any references to kraken?
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[10:34] <LeoBodnar> And then goes down to 10mA, for awhile etc
[10:34] <mattbrejza> https://github.com/danielsaul/kraken/tree/master/firmware/kraken
[10:34] <LeoBodnar> Cheers!
[10:34] <mattbrejza> whether or not it actually sucessfully goes into sleep mode is a different matter
[10:36] <Laurenceb> ive done sleep on ublox5
[10:36] <Laurenceb> it was very impressive
[10:36] <Laurenceb> i mean it drew 50ma or so, but only for a second
[10:36] <Laurenceb> to get a loc
[10:36] <LeoBodnar> 7000m a bit too high for comfort, we'll see.
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[10:37] <Laurenceb> maybe balloon has more volume
[10:37] <LeoBodnar> They keep fiddling with FW
[10:38] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Are you expecting a float Leo ?
[10:39] <LeoBodnar> Yes Geoff-G8DHE-M
[10:39] <LeoBodnar> B-7 did similar thing http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-7/2.png
[10:40] <LeoBodnar> You can clearly see it going super-pressured at 5800m
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[10:43] <LazyL_M0LEP> Not quite so clear on the B-8 display because of the compressed scalefrom the midnight-ish points
[10:43] <LazyL_M0LEP> ...but does look very similar
[10:45] <Laurenceb> ~float?
[10:45] <LeoBodnar> Or was it second stage that separated at 5800m :-)
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[10:48] Nick change: MichaelC|Sleep -> MichaelC
[10:50] <LazyL_M0LEP> The knee is where the balloon gets taut, and then there's still some rising to do but it's not assisted by the balloon expanding so much, though it'll be stretching a little one way or another.
[10:50] <LazyL_M0LEP> ...or so i figure...
[10:51] <LeoBodnar> That's when envelope starts stretching elastically first and then plastically.
[10:52] <LeoBodnar> If you were to take it down and launch again the knee will be higher because the envelope is irreversibly stretched and the volume is higher
[10:52] <LazyL_M0LEP> Right.
[10:53] <LeoBodnar> You get more balloon for your money thanks to the Sun :)
[10:53] <LazyL_M0LEP> Wasn't sure how much of the stretch was plastic.
[10:53] <LazyL_M0LEP> ;)
[10:54] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-6/1.png the difference between 1st night float and 2nd night float is due to envelope unable to contract to original size
[10:55] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Right time to gomobile, but can't track at the same time so catch you all later
[10:55] <HixWork> hi LeoBodnar. Another B-launch? Whats the plan with B8?
[10:56] <LeoBodnar> Just fooling around :) Trying to test power saving before using solar
[10:59] <HixWork> AA or AAA? what have you got the current draw down to now?
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[10:59] <cyclops> HI!
[11:01] <HixWork> hi cyclops
[11:01] <x-f> oh, wow, the prediction on spacenearus pretty much agrees with HYSPLIT - http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/19150_trj001.gif
[11:02] <x-f> HixWork, AA
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[11:03] <HixWork> cool - so we should get a couple of days at least beased on B-6
[11:03] <x-f> yeah, tour of islands
[11:03] Nick change: chrisstubbs -> chrisstubbsW
[11:04] <HixWork> though a;t seems higher. but then again temp is also high too
[11:04] <chrisstubbsW> HixWork: im doing 3d in autocad. save me.
[11:04] <fsphil> I'm starting to think these pico's are avoiding me
[11:04] <HixWork> chrisstubbsW, just end it all now :P
[11:05] <cyclops> Guys when I solder batteries some "oxide" appears on the tin
[11:05] <cyclops> any way to prevent this?
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[11:06] <SpeedEvil> cyclops: you mean leaks past the seal?
[11:06] <HixWork> is it me or does the B-8 prediction look like a MASSIVE moon at the USandA
[11:06] <cyclops> I dont think so SpeedEvil
[11:07] <cyclops> One sec ill find a pic
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> cyclops: Flux can be corrosive.
[11:07] <cyclops> not using flux
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> You should in general, unless you know it's OK, clean off flux.
[11:07] <fsphil> use flux
[11:07] <HixWork> doesn't flux prevent oxidisation?
[11:07] <cyclops> well i've soldered without flux
[11:08] <cyclops> only scratching the surface
[11:08] <SpeedEvil> How long did it take you to solder each battery?
[11:08] <LeoBodnar> It will fall off without flux
[11:08] <SpeedEvil> It should take no more than half a second.
[11:08] <HixWork> they normally spot-weld battery tabs don't they
[11:08] <fsphil> yep
[11:08] <cyclops> I bought a 80W solder with nearly 1cm tip
[11:08] <cyclops> And its fast
[11:08] <LeoBodnar> Yep, do the use Nickel tabs?
[11:09] <cyclops> Y use coaxial cable
[11:09] <chrisstubbsW> G0TDJ_Steve: Trajectory for possible flight this evening: http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/19972_trj001.gif
[11:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> Thanks chrisstubbsW
[11:10] <HixWork> how do you get this HYSPLIT data?
[11:10] <SpeedEvil> My recommended procedure is: Wash your hands. Now, with some clean 600 grit sandpaper, clean the attachment point to brightness. Immediately add a tiny smear of flux. Now, with a hot iron, with the flat placed horizontally - place a blob of solder on the iron, and touch the battery to it for half a second or so.
[11:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Some trip chrisstubbsW
[11:10] <chrisstubbsW> select isobarix HixWork
[11:10] <chrisstubbsW> *isobaric
[11:10] <SpeedEvil> You should be able to immediately touch the battery afterwards without pain - it cools so fast.
[11:11] <HixWork> sounds like my brother chrisstubbsW
[11:11] <cyclops> I bought "Eco Flux"
[11:11] <SpeedEvil> Leave it to fully cool, and then place a tinned wire against the solder, and repeat the process
[11:11] <cyclops> And it says it has to ble cleaned
[11:11] <chrisstubbsW> XD
[11:11] <SpeedEvil> The battery only gets mildly warm.
[11:12] <cyclops> Nover so hot that you can hold
[11:12] <cyclops> *cant
[11:12] <HixWork> so the NOAA data for our hourlies is gone for good do we think?
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[11:13] <fsphil> my hourly is still working
[11:13] <cyclops> Hwoyee balloons >totex ?
[11:13] <mfa298_> my hourly seems to have recent data as well
[11:14] <HixWork> mine had a few points yesterday but has run out of data now. seems to sporadically get bursts of info
[11:14] <fsphil> I have it only updating at 2am though
[11:14] <fsphil> once a day
[11:14] <HixWork> hmm
[11:15] <LeoBodnar> Are you launching a floater chrisstubbsW ?
[11:15] <mfa298_> although realistically if there's a central one that can manage multiple scenarios then there's not much need for people to run their own now.
[11:16] <LeoBodnar> B-8 seems to be envious of latex ones. Getting a bit too high
[11:18] <cyclops> Guys which would you choose? Hwoyee 800 or Totex 800 for about 500-600g
[11:18] <Darkside> they both work similar
[11:18] <Darkside> might get more alt out of a 800
[11:18] <Darkside> hwoyee, i mean
[11:19] <cyclops> Hwoyee its also cheaper
[11:19] <cyclops> a39 vs 65
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[11:24] <Laurenceb> looks like float
[11:24] <Laurenceb> pity it looks like it will go out of range it its long duration
[11:24] <Laurenceb> can hysplit be run for longer?
[11:25] <x-f> for 180 hours max
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[11:30] <fsphil> I've removed the test positions from spacenear
[11:30] <fsphil> altitude graph is very steppy
[11:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cheers fsphil That's a lot tidier
[11:33] <ibanezmatt13> On this guide http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox6 what is the difference between myserial and Serial?
[11:33] <ibanezmatt13> I'm looking at the hardware serial section
[11:34] <HixWork> myserial is software serial
[11:35] <HixWork> which is ok for testing but not for flight
[11:35] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not sure what the software serial is being used for.
[11:35] <Piet0r> Is used for debug information
[11:35] <Piet0r> So you can monitor on your PC what the unit is doing
[11:36] <ibanezmatt13> So is myserial the serial connection through the USB cable to the serial monitor on the PC?
[11:36] <Piet0r> Indeed
[11:36] <HixWork> yes
[11:36] <Piet0r> The hardware serial is connected to the GPS unit
[11:36] <ibanezmatt13> So what's the actual serial then for the Ublox? I thought just doing Serial. would talk to the PC to
[11:37] <Piet0r> The hardware serial does all operations in a dedicated UART-chip
[11:37] <Piet0r> So the CPU does not have to do that
[11:37] <Piet0r> When using software serial the CPU is doing all the stuff
[11:38] <Piet0r> So you have less CPU-cycles to do actual work
[11:38] <chrisstubbsW> LeoBodnar: thats the plan
[11:38] <chrisstubbsW> cheapo 6
[11:38] <ibanezmatt13> Ah I see. So where it says Softwareserial myserial (4, 5) the 4 and 5 are the pins connected to the FTDI module that is connected to the PC?
[11:38] <HixWork> yup
[11:38] <Piet0r> Yes
[11:39] <ibanezmatt13> That makes sense then, thanks. I was getting confused with the connections
[11:39] <ibanezmatt13> I was thinking that pins 4 and 5 were tx and rx :)
[11:40] <Piet0r> They are, but they are tx/rx to your PC
[11:40] <Piet0r> 1 and 2 are tx/rx to your GPS receiver
[11:40] <ibanezmatt13> I see. I understand that now
[11:41] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks for the help
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[11:42] Nick change: DanielRi1hman -> DanielRichman
[11:42] <HixWork> LeoBodnar, http://goo.gl/N1Vuua
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[11:52] <LeoBodnar> Cool! chrisstubbsW
[11:53] <LeoBodnar> Thanks fsphil - looks like a proper stepladder now :)
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[11:56] <iain_g4sgx> Hi whats the B8 freq?
[11:57] <iain_g4sgx> sorry, didnt look at map.. doh
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[12:06] <Rob_m0dts> hopefully still on when i get in later...ttfn
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[12:07] <PE2G> Hi all, what are your dial and cursor freqs for B-8?
[12:08] <iain_g4sgx> Si its just sending data every 5 mins? my dialis 434.501920 and it about 1.5kc's in
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[12:09] <Pilgrimpaul> Good afternoon all :)
[12:09] <mattbrejza> afternoon
[12:10] <Pilgrimpaul> How's it going Matt :)
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[12:10] <mattbrejza> not bad
[12:10] <mattbrejza> theres a balloon launch going on atm
[12:10] <mattbrejza> but this one is no effort to track
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[12:12] <Pilgrimpaul> Is it possible to track other peoples balloons online?
[12:12] <mattbrejza> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[12:12] <PE2G> iain_g4sgx: Thanks for the freqs. I don't know when it's on/off
[12:13] <Pilgrimpaul> cool thanks
[12:13] <mattbrejza> it beeps every few secs PE2G
[12:14] <mattbrejza> although you might have difficulty hearing them
[12:14] <mattbrejza> txing
[12:14] <iain_g4sgx> on now
[12:14] <mattbrejza> and stopped
[12:15] <PE2G> Ok, thanks, no trace here
[12:16] <Pilgrimpaul> how often does the tracker update?
[12:16] <mattbrejza> this balloon is sleeping most of the time so every 3-4 mins
[12:16] <Pilgrimpaul> sleeping?
[12:16] <Pilgrimpaul> lol
[12:16] <Pilgrimpaul> <------ Noob
[12:16] <mattbrejza> but normally it would be updating every 2-10sec depending on how much data youre sending and how fast
[12:17] <mattbrejza> well the payload electronics is sleeping
[12:17] <mattbrejza> to save power
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[12:20] <iain_g4sgx> Dial 434.502420 and the left side of the trace is dead on 1000Hz
[12:20] <PE2G> iain_g4sgx: OK
[12:20] <Pilgrimpaul> heading out to sea?
[12:21] <mattbrejza> Pilgrimpaul: this is the hardware: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-2/
[12:21] <mattbrejza> so notyhing too expensive
[12:21] <mattbrejza> and this is a previous flight http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-6/
[12:22] <mattbrejza> btw this isnt a 'standard' latex balloon that goes up for 2 hrs then falls back down
[12:22] <iain_g4sgx> txing now
[12:22] <mattbrejza> its a foil party balloon that if you fill just right will float at a particular altitude
[12:23] <LeoBodnar> Has B-8 sent any archived flight log data yet?
[12:23] <Pilgrimpaul> Brilliant! So no cameras attached for piccys? Just purely used for tracking?
[12:24] <LeoBodnar> Yes, practicing RX skillz :)
[12:24] <iain_g4sgx> yes $B-8,1,074134,52.0807,-1.0254,188,6,1.77,38*420d
[12:24] <iain_g4sgx> $$B-8,11,080154,52.0899,-0.9744,848,6,1.6,33*d695
[12:24] <iain_g4sgx> $$B-8,71,100209,52.5572,-0.4886,6343,5,1.48,14*54c0
[12:24] <iain_g4sgx> $$B.8,131,120344,53.1657,-0.0566,7523,6,1.46,8*bb11
[12:24] <ibanezmatt13> Anybody know where I can find some decent Arduino code for reading data from a Ublox? I'm not sure how to read the GPS data and store it in C
[12:25] <Pilgrimpaul> seems I have so much to learn :)
[12:25] <Laurenceb> archived data?
[12:25] <LeoBodnar> Cheers iain_g4sgx, this seems to not have caused any problem with habitat (like track jumping back)
[12:25] <mattbrejza> http://ukhas.org.uk/ Pilgrimpaul
[12:25] <LeoBodnar> Yes Laurenceb
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[12:25] <LeoBodnar> condensed flight log
[12:25] <Pilgrimpaul> :)
[12:26] <Laurenceb> why?
[12:26] <Laurenceb> it stores data during the off period?
[12:27] <LeoBodnar> If it travels out of RX range and comes back few days later wouldn't you want to know where it has been?
[12:27] <SpeedEvil> if it's out of signal for a few hours
[12:27] Nick change: iain_g4sgx -> G4SGX_Garden
[12:27] <LeoBodnar> It stores 5 days worth of data with 2hour intervals
[12:27] <Laurenceb> oh
[12:27] <LeoBodnar> And beams it back every 2 hours
[12:27] <Laurenceb> very clever
[12:28] <mattbrejza> that will probably upset spacenear, but probably isnt causing any issues atm as the archieved data it's sent has already been recieved and plotted
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[12:34] <fsphil> We're gonna need a station in Thurso
[12:34] <fsphil> who's up for a drive?
[12:35] <mattbrejza> SpeedEvil: any recieving gear?
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[12:38] <mattbrejza> Pilgrimpaul: do you think youll be sticking with the spot tracker?
[12:43] <Pilgrimpaul> Now that I've bought it I think I'll need to... but would like to find out more about the way you guys do things for future flights
[12:44] <mattbrejza> does your school teach electronics? could be a project for some students to do
[12:46] <Pilgrimpaul> We don't teach it on any scale
[12:46] <Pilgrimpaul> I'm thinking along the lines of an after school gifted and talented club
[12:46] <mattbrejza> well you have a lot of time left for them to come up with something
[12:47] <Pilgrimpaul> :)
[12:47] <Pilgrimpaul> And on holiday at the mo for 6 weeks so can get my own homework done :)
[12:48] <mattbrejza> what we (soton uni students) have done is helped schools (local and not so local) launch and provide tracking for their own projects
[12:48] <mattbrejza> should you feel you need help nearer the time
[12:49] <Pilgrimpaul> Much appreciated Matt
[12:49] <mattbrejza> email: suspaceflight@gmail.com
[12:49] <Pilgrimpaul> Is this the best way to make contact?
[12:49] <Pilgrimpaul> Aah thanks
[12:49] <mattbrejza> either email or irc, but more people will see the email
[12:50] <Pilgrimpaul> brill
[12:50] <chrisg7ogx> thgink ive lost it here
[12:50] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: At the moment I don't have any receiveing gear - funds are really tight.
[12:50] <Pilgrimpaul> It would be really good for our school to be able to make the links with a Russel Group Uni such as Southampton
[12:50] <mattbrejza> never mind then SpeedEvil
[12:50] <chrisg7ogx> B8 that is
[12:51] <Laurenceb> altitude is looking stable
[12:51] <mattbrejza> the physics department has a particularly active outreach team
[12:51] <mattbrejza> and they support us with our outreach stuff
[12:52] <LeoBodnar> Not bad going chrisg7ogx
[12:52] <chrisg7ogx> tks chores time
[12:52] <LeoBodnar> Exponential relaxation?
[12:53] <Pilgrimpaul> Would be good if we could maybe organise a trip for our students to attend one of your balloon launches in the future (if possible)
[12:53] <LeoBodnar> Can one transmit on pretty much any frequency in international waters/airspace.
[12:54] <LeoBodnar> ?
[12:54] <iain_G4SGX> Radio Caroline thought so..
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[12:54] <mattbrejza> we've had a large audience before Pilgrimpaul, not sure when our next one will be, but perhaps nov/dec time
[12:55] <LeoBodnar> Drop a very long wire and TX on SW?
[12:55] <mattbrejza> which will probably slip to spring due to weather and similar things
[12:55] <fsphil> know that feeling well
[12:55] <Pilgrimpaul> Ideal.. I'll keep a look out :)
[12:55] <mattbrejza> orginal launch date for this one was july but lets ignore that
[12:56] <LeoBodnar> I..e. let one thin long wire hang under the payload and one go up to the balloon top = vertical [shortish] dipole
[12:56] <mattbrejza> Pilgrimpaul: you might find others are launching nearer. most people dont mind others to come along and watch/help, although a class full of kids might be pushing it
[12:57] <Pilgrimpaul> haha no worries :)
[12:58] <mattbrejza> would be a long day for you too? 3hrs drive i think?
[13:00] <Laurenceb> <LeoBodnar>: might work
[13:00] <Laurenceb> going to weight a bit
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[13:00] <Pilgrimpaul> We're used to travelling, living so far from everywhere but the sea we have no choice :)
[13:00] <mattbrejza> heh
[13:01] <Jonathan_G4KLX> LeoBadnar: The classic Zeppelin antenna.
[13:01] <mattbrejza> LeoBodnar: there are ISM SW bands, although only 10mW
[13:02] <cyclops> guys imput on mi first battery soldering? http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/397/eqkc.jpg
[13:02] <Pilgrimpaul> Just reading the Derek the Teddy story from the daily echo
[13:02] <mattbrejza> yea that one got around a bit
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[13:03] <mattbrejza> btw Pilgrimpaul the mailing list is generally where launches are announced: http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:mailing_list
[13:03] <x-f> cyclops, is the middle one upside down?
[13:03] <cyclops> yes
[13:03] <cyclops> i know it not wired like that
[13:03] <cyclops> 2 to the same
[13:04] <x-f> ok then
[13:04] <cyclops> but i wanted to prectice
[13:04] <Laurenceb> the sea :P
[13:04] <cyclops> and upside down http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/7578/hyws.jpg
[13:04] <cyclops> do you know what the black spots on the tin are?
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[13:05] <daveake> burnt flux
[13:06] <cyclops> I didnt aplied any
[13:06] <cyclops> Maybe the tin has preaplied flux?
[13:06] <craag> cyclops: Nearly all solder comes with flux in it.
[13:07] <cyclops> oh, so that is "normal"
[13:07] <craag> It's what makes the smoke when you leave solder on the iron.
[13:07] <craag> yep
[13:07] <cyclops> oh
[13:07] <cyclops> Now everything makes sense
[13:08] <cyclops> And soldering i made is ok?
[13:08] <craag> mattbrejza: btw don't know if you got my message last night. If you want local QRM surveys I have the FCD pro + on a colinear in the loft.
[13:09] <craag> Can do 192KHz at 16-bit with fixed-gain
[13:09] <mattbrejza> yea that might be more useful
[13:09] <craag> cyclops: Looks good to me.
[13:09] <mattbrejza> just need to get it to dump the data to a file somehow
[13:10] <cyclops> :D its my seccond attempt
[13:10] <mattbrejza> i guess just get sdr# to do a long fft
[13:10] <craag> SDRsharp will dump it to a wav file.
[13:10] <craag> I tried it last night, 18GB per hour..
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[13:10] <cyclops> time to have lunch
[13:10] <mattbrejza> hmm data
[13:10] <cyclops> cya in a while
[13:11] <craag> cya cyclops
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[13:12] <craag> Let me know a freq and timspan and I'll dump it onto my 300GB usb drive.
[13:13] <mattbrejza> i might make a little java app to process and create a bmp
[13:13] <craag> That'd be cool.
[13:13] <mattbrejza> if you set sdr# to silly high FFT than the display will contain a few hours of data?
[13:15] <craag> Yep I suppose. And the wall behind my PC would have a burn mark on it.
[13:16] <mattbrejza> yea there is that
[13:16] <craag> Post-processing the wav data might be useful though, to mess with the dynamic range.
[13:16] <craag> And I believe the wall behind linuxproj is fireproof :)
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[13:17] <mattbrejza> complexity of FFT is O(N log (N))
[13:17] <mattbrejza> so the complexity per sample is log(N)?
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[13:17] <craag> Sounds about right..
[13:17] <mattbrejza> so longer ffts dont take quite as much extra processing power
[13:17] <mattbrejza> as you might think
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[13:21] <ibanezmatt13> I'm looking into designing my own PCBs for a few different projects I have lined up. Are there any companies anybody would recommend that I would make the PCB based on a schematic I give them?
[13:21] <Darkside> we
[13:21] <Darkside> nobody will make a pcb from a schematic
[13:21] <Darkside> you will ned to do the pcb design yourself
[13:21] <mattbrejza> (cheaply)
[13:21] <Darkside> yes
[13:22] <ibanezmatt13> hmm
[13:22] <Darkside> once you have the pcb design, there are many options
[13:22] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, have a look on #hackvana
[13:22] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 there can be as much effort needed to design the pcb as design the circuit
[13:22] <Darkside> often more
[13:22] <daveake> yup
[13:23] <daveake> habamp for example :)
[13:23] <daveake> anything with high frequency stuff. the pcb is a component
[13:23] <Darkside> meh
[13:23] <Darkside> havamp was easy
[13:23] <Darkside> habamp*
[13:23] <Darkside> the board i'm working on now is way more difficult
[13:23] <daveake> relative to the cct I mean
[13:23] <Darkside> oh
[13:23] <Darkside> yeah
[13:23] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, I'll have a look into it. I'll probably start with a basic PCB anyway to avoid complicated design issues
[13:23] <Darkside> your first pcb will always seem complicated
[13:24] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, have a look at this tut https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/108
[13:24] <mattbrejza> half of the initial effort is getting the software to so what you want
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[13:24] <daveake> ibanezmatt13, there are things to remember, like keep high-frequency stuff short (keep the xtal close to the CPU), having good ground planes, and lots of other things
[13:25] <ibanezmatt13> I see. I'll start with a basic schematic and I guess I can work on the positioning of the components and design after that. I've started using Eagle and it's not that easy :)
[13:27] <daveake> Sensible positioning is an important first step
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[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: That tutorial looks really helpful, I'm gonna give it a good read :) Thanks
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[13:34] <HixWork> any of the student types used OpenFOAM [or anyone for that matter] open source CFD language
[13:34] <Laurenceb> i tried to get elmer working
[13:34] <Laurenceb> bit of a learning curve...
[13:36] <HixWork> whats elmer Laurenceb?
[13:37] <HixWork> oh FE software
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[13:42] <ibanezmatt13> Just been watching some videos on creating PCBs at home. Looks pretty good actually, may give it a go after I've designed by PCB print :)
[13:42] <nosebleedkt> hi allz
[13:42] <nosebleedkt> my new payload is only 600g
[13:42] <nosebleedkt> !
[13:43] <nosebleedkt> while the 1st one was 1350g :D
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[14:12] <LazyL_M0LEP> Ho hum. Some piece of garden machinery nearby is playing the spark-gap transmitter game...
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[14:21] <G4SGX_Garden> I have electric fence problems. Keep having to go out at night to trim the grass underneath and emery paper the gate connector, works a treat. .
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[14:22] <G4SGX_Garden> Got caught once, now they definately think im crazy.
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[14:26] <x-f> :)
[14:27] <LazyL_M0LEP> Electric fences are a right nuisance. Noise blanker will usually take out one, but if there are half a dozen then most of them get through.
[14:28] <LazyL_M0LEP> However, this problem's a high-revs petrol strimmer.
[14:28] <LazyL_M0LEP> I can see the QRM going up and down with the revs...
[14:29] <LazyL_M0LEP> ...and B-8 is pretty much out of range now anyway.
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[14:33] <fsphil> I'm hoping it comes back a bit further east than the prediction
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[14:34] <fsphil> well, a lot further east
[14:34] <x-f> have you ever tracked a pico, fsphil?
[14:34] <fsphil> not yet
[14:34] <fsphil> nearly
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[14:35] <fsphil> one of jcoxon's got close, then the radio died
[14:35] <x-f> :/
[14:35] <fsphil> well I tracked one of NigeyS's, but I was in Cardiff so that doesn't count
[14:36] Action: mfa298_ just looks at the prediction. Nice an anti clockwise circuit of the UK
[14:37] <fsphil> the prediction does assume a slow descent
[14:37] <fsphil> which hopefully it won't do
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[14:41] <mfa298_> hmmm, looking at an ubuntu howto guide, It states it will use the IP's 12.34.56.789 and 12.23.34.456 I can see this working well.
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[14:42] <Laurenceb> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-8/
[14:43] <Laurenceb> is that an external thermistor?
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[14:48] <guest_____> No this is my launch pad power supply. I cut it off a minute before release.
[14:49] <Laurenceb> heh
[14:50] <Laurenceb> nasa style
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[14:50] <daveake> Indeed :)
[14:54] <HixWork> mfa298_ its doing a big moon at the US
[14:56] <mfa298_> HixWork: or a big heart over europe/africa
[14:57] <Jonathan_G4KLX> LeoBodnar: An observation about DominoEx, it would be useful to transmit a few more symbols ($s ?) before the first position so that the decoder can lock. I have B-8 very weak here (crap location) and it only picked up the first position after a few characters and was invalid, while the second position was fine.
[14:59] Nick change: LazyL_M0LEP -> LazyLeopard
[15:00] <guest_____> Jonathan_G4KLX: I will look into this, it adjusts the TX carrier frequency between the sentences and this might break up the reception, cheers for letting me know
[15:01] <guest_____> That was from LeoBodnar :)
[15:01] Nick change: guest_____ -> LeoBodnarW
[15:02] <Jonathan_G4KLX> :-) What is the TX module used by B-8 BTW?
[15:04] <LeoBodnarW> Si4460
[15:04] <Jonathan_G4KLX> Locked to GPS, nice. I had to go out this morning and it was still receiving B-8 when I got back.
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[15:06] <Willdude123> Busy preparing for the hols. Downloading many episodes of the daily show and colbert report, some movies and a few tux radar podcasts.
[15:07] <Willdude123> I need a HAB talk to watch :)
[15:07] <mfa298_> Jonathan_G4KLX: it's so good I've my radio and dl-fldigi are still tuned from the last flight without having to adjust anything (although I've only got a few partials due to location)
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[15:08] <HixWork> Willdude123, i think last years conf is on the batc site
[15:08] <Willdude123> Actually. Nah.
[15:08] <Willdude123> Wasn't the sound quality really bad?
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[15:24] <Jonathan_G4KLX> LeoBodnarW: The problem is showing itself every time here now, dl-fldigi is reporting signals at -10 dB or lower.
[15:25] <LeoBodnarW> It could be subtle timing change - i'll check this area more carefully in the code.
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[15:31] <Laurenceb> nned more listeners
[15:31] <UpuWork> its ok for a bit M0DNY will be back
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[15:35] <Lunar_LanderU> hello again
[15:37] <Lunar_LanderU> I am just wondering about my small payload I have, 3xAAA powered, Atmega328, SD card slot, NTX2, chip antenna ublox, should weigh about 100 g
[15:37] <Lunar_LanderU> what exactly I can do with it
[15:37] <Lunar_LanderU> just looking at the burst calculator
[15:37] <Lunar_LanderU> that is what I mean
[15:37] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[15:38] <fsphil> marry it?
[15:38] <Lunar_LanderU> a 800 balloon should bring it well across 30 km
[15:38] <Lunar_LanderU> xD!
[15:39] <fsphil> float it .. good way of getting rid of payloads
[15:39] <Lunar_LanderU> lol
[15:39] <Lunar_LanderU> would make the SD slot obsolete
[15:40] Upu (~UpuWork@2a02:b80:12:1:d484:1367:7942:f7d) joined #highaltitude.
[15:40] <Lunar_LanderU> I can practise interrupts on it
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[15:45] <chrisstubbs> float the 808 camera, the footage wont be worth getting back anyway
[15:45] <chrisstubbs> even if you did want to recover it, you probably wont becuase it will screw your gps
[15:45] <chrisstubbs> </rant>
[15:45] <Lunar_LanderU> xD yea
[15:50] Nick change: Upu -> UpuWork
[15:50] <cm13g09> evening chrisstubbs
[15:50] Nick change: Upu- -> Upu
[15:51] <Willdude123> UpuWork: Sent the UBX
[15:51] <Willdude123> UpuWork: There's a good chance IRC will be blocked in Turkey, so if I don't respond, then email me (iam at willdover dot co dot uk)
[15:53] <chrisstubbs> Hey cm13g09
[15:54] <chrisstubbs> matt is going to come over with the helium about 7/7.30 so expect launch soon after
[15:54] <cm13g09> ok
[15:54] <cm13g09> anyone got a dial freq for B-8?
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[15:56] Nick change: stilldavid -> SparkBot
[15:56] Nick change: SparkBot -> stilldavid
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[16:00] <mfa298_> cm13g09: 434.500 DominoEX
[16:00] <cm13g09> mfa298_: has it not drifted?
[16:00] <mfa298_> Leo's flights are always the same
[16:00] <mfa298_> gps controlled tx so no (or very little) drift
[16:01] <cm13g09> fair enough
[16:01] <mfa298_> one of these days he'll confuse us and use a different frequency or mode.
[16:01] <chrisstubbs> oh cool the new predictor dosent have the lat/lng deltas anymore
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[16:01] <cm13g09> hmm...
[16:01] <cm13g09> can't find it
[16:02] <mfa298_> it only sends a few strings then sleeps for a few minutes
[16:02] <cm13g09> ah right
[16:03] <mfa298_> there should be short bits of carrier every few seconds although I've found that harder to spot than the DominoEX
[16:03] Nick change: ghoti_ -> ghoti
[16:03] <cm13g09> I don't know what DomEx sounds like :P
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[16:04] <Jonathan_G4KLX> Odd!
[16:04] <cm13g09> lol
[16:04] <mfa298_> slightly more musical than rtty
[16:04] <Jonathan_G4KLX> It works when the signal is just about sub-audible, so dial up 434.500 and let dl-fldigi see what it can do. Even the waterfall isn't showing a lot.
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[16:06] <Jonathan_G4KLX> I'm thinking of trying to do DominoEx on an Arduino + NTX2.
[16:07] <cm13g09> I'm just not hearing anything....
[16:07] <Jonathan_G4KLX> Data within 30s
[16:07] <Laurenceb> there
[16:08] <cm13g09> yep
[16:08] <cm13g09> I see it
[16:08] <cm13g09> /here it
[16:08] <mfa298_> Jonathan_G4KLX: from what others have said it's more tricky as you need to take into account frequecy drift with temperature.
[16:08] <cm13g09> *hear
[16:08] <Jonathan_G4KLX> -14 dB here, I assume it's -14 dB in the noise bandwidth of dl-fldigi which appears to be 2700 Hz.
[16:08] <cm13g09> but I can't get a decode
[16:09] <cm13g09> it doesn't seem to line up with the bars in dl-fldigi
[16:09] <mfa298_> although if you create a lookup table with drift vs temp it might be possible to adjust it suitably
[16:09] <Jonathan_G4KLX> I'd only be playing to start with, not flight hardware.
[16:10] <Jonathan_G4KLX> I'd be interested to learn how Leo does the GPS locking, is the CPU involved or just hardware.
[16:12] <cm13g09> hmm
[16:12] <cm13g09> I'm right on the edge of the blue now
[16:14] Action: cm13g09 puts radio on....
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[16:14] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: what freq for you later?
[16:14] <chrisstubbs> 434.300
[16:15] <cm13g09> ok
[16:15] <cm13g09> cheers
[16:15] <chrisstubbs> Still waiting for a lock testing
[16:15] <DL7AD> good morning
[16:15] <cm13g09> fair enough
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[16:16] <mfa298_> cm13g09: if you havn't already it's probably worth seeing how accurate your dongle is and adjusting the ppm so it's closer to being accurate.
[16:17] <cm13g09> ppm?
[16:17] Action: cm13g09 feels lost again
[16:17] <mfa298_> parts per million
[16:18] <cm13g09> ok
[16:18] <Jonathan_G4KLX> My FCD Pro is out to lunch.
[16:18] <HixWork> cm13g09, there is a tuning offset
[16:18] <Jonathan_G4KLX> Using my FT-817.
[16:18] <HixWork> what software do you use? and what dongle did you get
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[16:19] <cm13g09> HixWork: using gqrx
[16:20] <cm13g09> and it's a TV28T
[16:20] <cm13g09> therefore, E4000 tuner
[16:20] <HixWork> can't help with that one i'm afraid, but basically there's normally a tunable offset with dongles, you hone them in on a known signal
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[16:20] <cm13g09> mine seems pretty damned accurate anyway
[16:20] <cm13g09> (I'm using a local radio station as a reference
[16:21] <Lambeta> KT5TK, KT5TK_QRL per chance are you available on irc?
[16:21] <mfa298_> this is a guide for the fcd for sdr# which should give some idea of what to do http://funcubedongle.pbworks.com/w/page/62293464/Calibration
[16:21] <KT5TK> Yes, I'm here
[16:21] <HixWork> as in FM station cm13g09 ? bear in mind the width of them is huuuge
[16:21] <cm13g09> HixWork: yeah, I know
[16:21] <mfa298_> I've found mine aren't too bad. It's good enough to find the signal the tuning is just slightly off from where it should be.
[16:21] <cm13g09> that's why I want to use chrisstubbs' launch
[16:21] <cm13g09> in order to test
[16:22] <Lambeta> KT5TK, I came across your pecan pico 3 project using the SI4463/64
[16:22] <HixWork> a tracker will really pin it down
[16:22] <chrisstubbs> cm13g09, its transmitting now, want me to throw it on the roof?
[16:22] <mfa298_> I found trying to work on the correction using APRS failed miserably as everyone's TX seemed to be slightly off.
[16:22] <Lambeta> I switched a month ago from using the CC1125 SoC from TI to the SI4464 because it's much friendlier towards AX.25
[16:22] <cm13g09> lol
[16:22] <chrisstubbs> you might get it from the other side of town haha
[16:22] <cm13g09> can try it ;)
[16:22] <Lambeta> Just wondering if you managed to get it to work with your project?
[16:23] <KT5TK> I actually just built a Pecan 4
[16:23] <Lambeta> Using the same ic?
[16:23] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: is you have a way to launch the signal skywards
[16:23] <KT5TK> and it worked right out of the box
[16:23] <cm13g09> *if
[16:23] <Lambeta> how did you modulate the data? using the built in vco/modulator/mixer
[16:23] <chrisstubbs> ok will do. It took 15 mins to get a fix with the new software :/
[16:23] <Lambeta> or did you provide a modulated data stream to the ic?
[16:24] <chrisstubbs> sill be better for flight mode but may delay the launch a little.
[16:24] <KT5TK> yes. See https://kt5tk.wordpress.com/2013/07/24/pecan-pico-4-serial-number-1-built-working/
[16:24] <cm13g09> fair enough
[16:24] <KT5TK> I actually modulate the VCXO
[16:25] <Lambeta> and you just send data to it?
[16:25] <Lambeta> bit bang?
[16:25] <KT5TK> The transmitter is just switched on and off
[16:26] <Lambeta> the documentation is not that great when it comes to using the built in fifo
[16:26] <Lambeta> i'd like to send data to the fifo and have the si4464 fsk modulate it
[16:26] <KT5TK> the AFSK is generated by the micro
[16:26] <Lambeta> I'm looking at using MSK
[16:27] <Lambeta> but there seems to be nothing in regards to greater than fifo length
[16:27] <KT5TK> The Si4464 can do 4FSK only in internal mode
[16:27] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: I'm seeing nothing :(
[16:27] <Lambeta> right - using the fifo
[16:27] <Lambeta> otherwise i'd have to use afsk
[16:28] <chrisstubbs> cm13g09, just flashing new software
[16:28] <cm13g09> ah OK
[16:28] <Lambeta> i'm building a cubesat communications module
[16:28] <chrisstubbs> shame this board dosent have an SMA on it or i could just hook it up to my x-50 and beam it out
[16:28] <chrisstubbs> or could just key my 817
[16:30] <cm13g09> lol
[16:30] <chrisstubbs> cm13g09, its on the roof, anything?
[16:30] <cm13g09> :(
[16:30] <cm13g09> nothing obvious
[16:30] <chrisstubbs> 434.296
[16:31] <cm13g09> nope
[16:31] <chrisstubbs> when I used the rtlsdr you really had to scroll around the area, i didnt find much on the waterfall
[16:31] <cm13g09> It was, perhaps, asking a bit much
[16:31] <chrisstubbs> lol
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[16:31] <chrisstubbs> only a couple of miles
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[16:31] <chrisstubbs> ok cool that got a fix within seconds :)
[16:31] <Lambeta> KT5TK, i'm just a bit lost right now on the capabilities of the si4464, if i'm able to use it to send data over spi and have the si4464 gfsk/msk modulate the data
[16:32] <HixWork> kt5TK how does the chip antenna perform on that board? I thought they needed a fair bit of space to themsleves
[16:32] <HixWork> *themselves
[16:33] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: I think I can hear it
[16:33] <chrisstubbs> give it a decode
[16:33] <chrisstubbs> 50 baud 7n2
[16:33] <Lambeta> HixWork, thats enough space
[16:33] <Lambeta> i have a 2.4ghz chip antenna with an atmega128rfa1
[16:33] <Lambeta> on a high density board and it works quite well, comparable to the evaluation board
[16:34] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: can't get a decent decode :(
[16:34] <HixWork> ok cool Lambeta - i plan to use one
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[16:35] <cm13g09> in fact
[16:35] <cm13g09> I'm not getting enough stuff on the waterfall in dl-fldigi
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[16:37] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Back again
[16:41] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> PArtial decode
[16:46] <Willdude123> Anyone know of any good arduino/linux/microcontroller/electronics podcasts worth listening to?
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[16:49] <arko> into the either
[16:49] <arko> ether*
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[16:51] <LeoBodnarW> hometime! see you later!
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[17:17] <LeoBodnar> Current forecast for B-8: http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/18424_trj001.gif
[17:18] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/8Mo2VfD.jpg
[17:18] <Upu> FCD+ on the right you could decode that by eye LeoBodnar :)
[17:18] <LeoBodnar> My goal prank was to try to overfly launch site but I have probably injected it a bit too high...
[17:18] <Willdude123> Upu: Did I tell you I posted it now?
[17:19] <Willdude123> *I'Vve
[17:19] <Upu> ok cool thanks Will
[17:19] <Willdude123> *i've
[17:19] <Willdude123> Thanks for looking at it, and giving it to me.
[17:19] <LeoBodnar> Beauty! colour! I want it now!
[17:19] <LeoBodnar> What was it Upu ?
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[17:19] <Willdude123> LeoBodnar: £5k cash
[17:20] <Willdude123> :P
[17:21] <LeoBodnar> Is it FCD Pro+ with habamp?
[17:21] <Willdude123> Guess
[17:21] <Willdude123> Nope
[17:21] <Willdude123> keep guessing
[17:23] <Willdude123> Upu: If I don't respond on IRC can you email me please? IRC might be blocked in Turkey.
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[17:36] <Upu> hey LeoBodnar sorry was walking dog
[17:36] <Upu> one on left is FCD Pro with Habamp, right is FCD Pro+ without
[17:36] <LeoBodnar> No probs, ther's nothing that can't wait :)
[17:36] <Upu> FCD Pro+ is getting piles of QRM
[17:36] <fsphil> habamp might be overloading that
[17:36] <LeoBodnar> Intermod?
[17:36] <Upu> no amp on FCD+
[17:36] <fsphil> possibly
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[17:40] <LeoBodnar> Upu: Does your rotator do 360º?
[17:40] <Willdude123> Hi G0TDJ_Steve
[17:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey Will, HOws you?
[17:41] <Upu> yeah 450
[17:41] <LeoBodnar> ok
[17:41] <Upu> though @ 360 it will spin back to 0
[17:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nice flight again LeoBodnar
[17:41] <LeoBodnar> Just practicing :-)
[17:42] Action: cm13g09 patiently waits for chrisstubbs
[17:42] <chrisstubbs> cm13g09, better find something to entertain yourself for an hour :P
[17:42] <LeoBodnar> Going back to TX in international waters, what is the best band to choose? HAM or not?
[17:43] <G0TDJ_Steve> chrisstubbs: What freq will CHEAPO be on?
[17:43] <chrisstubbs> 434.300 (434.295 more like)
[17:43] <G0TDJ_Steve> Thanks
[17:43] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: I'm configuring network switches...
[17:44] <cm13g09> so....
[17:44] <chrisstubbs> XD
[17:44] <cm13g09> that'll take an hour :P
[17:44] <cm13g09> They're Netgears
[17:44] <cm13g09> and one of them is being stubborn!
[17:44] <G0TDJ_Steve> chrisstubbs: Just setting up radio etc.
[17:45] <cm13g09> (if anyone fancies dropping a network switch from high altitude.... feel free to do it with the Netgear FS728TP)
[17:45] <chrisstubbs> "SD/TF/MS Small Airship Multifunction Reader" wtf
[17:45] <arko> LeoBodnar: looks like it will be out of range soon
[17:45] <arko> err later
[17:45] <chrisstubbs> cm13g09, thats given me some inspiration for my next flight
[17:45] <chrisstubbs> bye bye 808 camera
[17:45] <LeoBodnar> yes, sooner or later
[17:46] <arko> :(
[17:46] <fsphil> cm13g09: that the one that you can only configure from a Win32 app?
[17:46] <cm13g09> fsphil: it's the one whose web UI doesn't actually work
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[17:46] <arko> i like going to sleep and waking up to say "It's still flying!?"
[17:47] <fsphil> cm13g09: at least it has one. the last netgear I got didn't
[17:47] <LeoBodnar> When you will wake up it will still be flying :)
[17:47] <cm13g09> fsphil: I'd prefer a console ;)
[17:47] <fsphil> try to stay awake until it bursts
[17:47] <arko> lol
[17:47] <arko> die from sleep debt
[17:47] <fsphil> which could be a while.. it'll be out of signal range before we see that
[17:48] <arko> i bet B-6 is still flying over france
[17:48] <fsphil> hah
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[17:49] <fsphil> the shriveled remains of an AA battery just floating over paris
[17:49] <fsphil> it seemed to like the city
[17:49] <LeoBodnar> It was supposed to come back according to forecast at the time: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-6/Last-prediction.gif
[17:49] <G0TDJ_Steve> They'll eventually be a whole load of 'B' balloons floating above the EU from 6000m to 7000m in a layer visible from the ground LOL
[17:50] <LeoBodnar> All tangled together?
[17:50] <G0TDJ_Steve> :D
[17:50] <G0TDJ_Steve> CHEAPO On the map
[17:51] <LeoBodnar> coolio! Go CHEAPO !
[17:51] <G0TDJ_Steve> Wacky prediction chrisstubbs
[17:51] <PE2G> Hi all, just to be sure: is B-8 sending beeps between data strings?
[17:51] <LeoBodnar> Yes
[17:51] <Jonathan_G4KLX> LeoBodnar: Is the GPS locking for the TX on your trackers done via the CPU or just in hardware?
[17:51] <PE2G> Then I think I'm receiving it!
[17:52] <fsphil> my pico repellent field is working well
[17:52] <LeoBodnar> CPU, GPS can only output 1kHz ref signal and PLLing TX to it in HW would be night on impossible
[17:53] <PE2G> Green decodes! Dx 481 km elev -1.3 deg
[17:53] <fsphil> sweet
[17:53] <LeoBodnar> AD makes some chips that can take 50kHz reference signal but they are big and hungry
[17:53] <fsphil> there might actually be a chance I could receive this
[17:53] <LeoBodnar> Haha well done PE2G
[17:53] <Jonathan_G4KLX> Interesting, Andy Talbot has done a lot of work using the 1pps output of a GPS with good results. All in hardware though.
[17:54] <PE2G> Very excited about this, I am so far outside the bleu circle
[17:54] <fsphil> sporadic e :)
[17:54] <LeoBodnar> Yes, but he probably uses slow LPF before PLL?
[17:54] <Jonathan_G4KLX> PE2G: Nice over sea ducting I'd imagine.
[17:54] <Jonathan_G4KLX> I think so.
[17:55] <PE2G> The beeps are getting even stronger :)
[17:55] <Jonathan_G4KLX> http://www.g4jnt.com/freqlock.htm
[17:56] <LeoBodnar> I wanted more agile correction when needed. E.g. when GPS is powered down you have no reference so when you wake up you need to correct quickly and decisively
[17:57] <LeoBodnar> MAX-7 can output up to 1MHz reference signal. It is very short stretch from there to just feeding it directly to the UHF synth.
[17:57] <Jonathan_G4KLX> The system you use would be worthy of publication.
[17:58] <fsphil> no sign of it here
[17:58] <LeoBodnar> Si4460 might even accept 1MHz reference input, who knows I can't see a reason why not.
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[17:58] <LeoBodnar> But phase noise on GPS output reference signal might be horrible.
[17:58] <fsphil> is the dial freq. 434.500 UAB?
[17:58] <fsphil> USB*
[17:59] <Jonathan_G4KLX> It usually is, people using it to lock uwave oscillators notice that more than most.
[18:00] <mfa298_> LeoBodnar: reading back a bit, For international waters I think HAM usage is based on UK regs (or your licenced country) and the ITU region - So no HAM usage for a UK license. Over other countries it's down to CEPT and the visited countries regs.
[18:00] <LeoBodnar> AD makes very nice chips for reference pulse train locking and they clean up the phase noise by employing intermediate crystal oscillator, but they are not really for portable use so I did not investigate.
[18:01] <LeoBodnar> They are used in mobile network base stations
[18:02] <LeoBodnar> What laws/regulations are governing RF transmission in international waters?
[18:03] <arko> "go crazy!"
[18:03] <PE2G> fsphil: 434.45013 , cursor freq 1278 Hz here
[18:03] <PE2G> 434.5013
[18:03] <arko> http://www.arrl.org/maritime-mobile-operation-in-international-waters
[18:03] <arko> please forgive me for posting a link that goes to the ARRL
[18:03] <fsphil> ta PE2G
[18:04] <arko> i'm struggling to forgive myself
[18:04] <LeoBodnar> I think we need another colour circle just for Dutch guys :-)
[18:04] <mfa298_> i would probably look at the ITU for international waters as a place to start
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[18:05] <LeoBodnar> Well, it is airborne and there is no human operator so it is a bit muddled
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[18:06] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:06] <PE2G> http://s15.postimg.org/qmwwz1fvv/Screen986.jpg
[18:06] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey jcoxon
[18:07] ChrisstubbsM (~AndChat35@host86-169-76-240.range86-169.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:07] <jcoxon> whats occuring
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[18:07] <LeoBodnar> iRoar
[18:07] <LeoBodnar> evening, business as usual
[18:08] <jcoxon> b-8 still txing?
[18:08] <LeoBodnar> yep
[18:08] <jcoxon> cool
[18:09] <jcoxon> nice trajectory
[18:09] <LeoBodnar> Dutch are receiving it from under the water, just a normal day really
[18:10] <LeoBodnar> :-)
[18:10] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, need to recruite M0DTS
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[18:10] <LeoBodnar> Did he say he'll be home after 22:30?
[18:10] <arko> LeoBodnar: I got some rtty last night http://i.imgur.com/yIM5vZO.png
[18:11] <PE2G> LeoBodnar: lol
[18:11] <arko> but i have some drift, did you use a TCXO?
[18:11] <fsphil> not a trace of it
[18:11] <arko> or 30mhz crystal?
[18:11] <arko> some terrible squiggles
[18:11] <fsphil> PE2G: impressive. you can't even see the signal
[18:12] <PE2G> Antenna direction is very critical, just a few deg off and the signal is completely gone
[18:12] <arko> LeoBodnar: if the fsk devation is 1k it drifts, but at like 500k it's nice and stable :/
[18:12] <fsphil> I'm on a colinear which probably explains it
[18:12] <LeoBodnar> yes arko
[18:13] <arko> yes to tcxo?
[18:13] <LeoBodnar> Is your crystal near the TX chip?
[18:13] <arko> yeah
[18:13] <arko> right next to it
[18:14] <LeoBodnar> It hits it up! Place it as far as possible despite what common sense says
[18:14] <LeoBodnar> yes, TCXO but used crystal as well
[18:15] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/SU5sP9Y.jpg
[18:15] <arko> so you didnt have any drift when the crystal was far away?
[18:16] <PE2G> fsphil: I can see the beeps and the telemetry in dl-fldigi's waterfall clearly. It wasn't in my screenshot
[18:16] <LeoBodnar> Environmental temperature change drift but not the pull when the TX starts/stops
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[18:16] <arko> hmm
[18:17] <arko> odd
[18:17] <arko> i would do a tx start and it just slowly drifts
[18:17] <arko> it leaves the 1k bandwidth within a minute
[18:18] <arko> the frequencies wiggle a lot otoo
[18:18] <PE2G> http://s11.postimg.org/xl2bg8tkz/Screen987.jpg
[18:19] <LeoBodnar> It's quite a sharp altitude drop on B-8, I wonder if it has leaked or pulled down by weather or sun is low?
[18:20] <LeoBodnar> -21dB S/N oO
[18:21] <LeoBodnar> arko: Hmm, not sure about wiggles, have you tried increasing internal capacitors load? Is power supply stable?
[18:22] <arko> i have the 3.3v line directly from a clean power supply. But i will add more decouple caps, maybe it cant provide the instant current
[18:22] <arko> im bypassing my voltage reg for now
[18:23] <LeoBodnar> Wires = inductance/resistance?
[18:24] <arko> i dont follow
[18:24] <arko> also increasing internal cap load?
[18:24] <PE2G> I lost it, no trace anymore
[18:24] <LeoBodnar> Try minimum TX power to start from to avoid heat/power pull issues and then step it up when you get it working well
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[18:25] <LeoBodnar> It has descended almost 1000m PE2G
[18:25] <PE2G> One green string again out of nowhere
[18:26] <arko> oh good idea
[18:26] <arko> gonna try that next time im at my lab
[18:26] <LeoBodnar> How come CHEAPO prediction is in the opposite direction to B-8 ?!
[18:26] <G0TDJ_Steve> Must be the prevailing wind LeoBodnar
[18:27] <LeoBodnar> I gave up on understanding the wind patterns G0TDJ_Steve :)
[18:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> It does seem a little more than chaotic LeoBodnar
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[18:30] <G0TDJ_Steve> I wonder how chrisstubbs is getting on?
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[18:30] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi cyclops
[18:32] <PE2G> LeoBodnar: You've made my day with B-8, never decoded anything so far below the horizon :)
[18:33] <LeoBodnar> I'm pleased too! :-) It's almost double the blue radius
[18:33] <x-f> these winds are easier to understand, if you look from above - http://www.sat24.com/ - looks like B-8 is in a cyclone, which CHEAPO won't catch anymore
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[18:34] <cyclops> hi GOTDJ
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[18:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> That's cool x-f Thanks
[18:35] <cyclops> Guys, I'm going to order the parachute now
[18:35] <cyclops> The recommended sea level descent speed is 5m/s right?
[18:36] <arko> yeah
[18:36] <arko> fast but not too fast
[18:36] <arko> 5/5 is a good combo
[18:36] <arko> at least for me, but i dont think i fly enough :P
[18:36] <Laurenceb__> CHEAPO launch?
[18:37] <cyclops> Yes 5ms ive been told for the ascent
[18:37] <cyclops> but not sure for the descent
[18:37] <arko> 5-7 is fine
[18:37] <arko> 7 is pretty fast though
[18:38] <cyclops> 25km/h
[18:38] <arko> ya
[18:38] <arko> just go with 5
[18:38] <cm13g09> Laurenceb__: don't think so yet
[18:38] <arko> meh
[18:38] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs said something about ISH time
[18:42] <cyclops> or 5.5m/s :P
[18:42] <cyclops> 42 inch spherachute then
[18:42] <arko> close enough
[18:42] <arko> fly it
[18:43] <cyclops> balloons and parachutes are expensive
[18:43] <cyclops> 42 pounds parachute 39 the balloon
[18:43] <arko> haha
[18:43] <arko> welcome to the world of habs :)
[18:43] <cyclops> well
[18:43] <x-f> welcome to the world of each hobby :)
[18:43] <arko> where are you launching from?
[18:43] <cyclops> I wanted to spend 300¬ to launch one balloon
[18:43] <cyclops> and know what
[18:44] <cyclops> Ive allready spent 400
[18:44] <cyclops> and have to spent 300¬ more
[18:44] <arko> yeah helium rental is 220 alone for something that weighs like 3-4lbs
[18:44] <arko> 1800g
[18:44] <G0TDJ_Steve> Look at tit this way cyclops, It's not golf!
[18:44] <arko> this is why i've moved over to picos
[18:44] <arko> much much cheaper
[18:44] <arko> i now have a tank and heads for hydrogen
[18:45] <arko> cyclops: are you in SD?
[18:45] <cyclops> Way more expensive than i thought
[18:45] <cyclops> im launching from spain arko
[18:45] <cyclops> But the thing is that except helium and balloon you can reuse the other parts every launch
[18:46] <arko> cyclops: ah
[18:46] <cyclops> SD?
[18:46] <arko> san diego
[18:46] <arko> california
[18:46] <arko> nvm
[18:46] <cyclops> A bit too far
[18:46] <arko> mixed you up with someone else
[18:46] <arko> haha
[18:46] <cyclops> a couple of thousand kilometers away
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[18:46] <ibanezmatt13> Evening :)
[18:46] <cyclops> hi!
[18:47] <PE2G> B-8 signal completely gone again, I'm hoping for a return at sunset
[18:47] <cyclops> well lets order the parachute and balloon then
[18:47] klaas_PD4KDZ (3e2d8485@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.45.132.133) joined #highaltitude.
[18:47] <cyclops> and how much does a 3.6m3 helium tank cost there?
[18:47] <ibanezmatt13> Anybody know if there's a problem with Cadsoft's website? The site loads but I can't reach any of the downloads
[18:48] <ibanezmatt13> Is there another, "legit" place I can download Eagle from? :)
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[18:49] <chrisstubbs> Okay we are going to go and launch now
[18:50] <chrisstubbs> just down the road, so you wont be able to see us walk it accross this time :P
[18:50] <G0TDJ_Steve> GO Chris
[18:50] <Jonathan_G4KLX> spacenear.us is showing a predicted burst for B-8 about now.
[18:50] <arko> that prediction isnt accurate
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[18:53] <mclane> cyclops: you can do the parachute yourself
[18:54] <mclane> description here: http://www.nakka-rocketry.net/paracon.html#Design
[18:54] Lunar_Lander (~gd-compto@p54888910.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[18:55] <klaas_PD4KDZ> Hi Lunar_Lander
[18:55] <cyclops> but mclane arent the spherachutes designed for a vertical descent?
[18:56] <mclane> yes as every parachute ;-)
[18:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> mclane: How about the one's on the back of drag racers? :-)
[18:57] <mclane> ok ;-) you caught me...
[18:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> :D
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> hi klaas_PD4KDZ and mclane
[18:58] <mclane> or as Lunar_Lander says xD
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> LOL
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:58] <cyclops> i mean that the spherachutes aim for less gliding
[18:58] <cyclops> traveling less distance
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[18:58] <jcoxon> how many m0upu's are there!
[18:58] <RocketBoy> 3
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> evening RocketBoy, might be that I will try a Hwoyee balloon soon
[18:59] <RocketBoy> if you zoom in
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> soon/in some time
[18:59] <craag> one receiver for each of his arms :)
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:59] <Upu> testing FCD vs FCD+ vs 817
[18:59] <craag> evening Lunar
[18:59] <mclane> cyclops - yes; but the design I have shown you is of the same design
[19:00] <RocketBoy> strangely all the UPSs all in different houses
[19:00] <RocketBoy> UPUs
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> hi craag
[19:00] <LeoBodnar> Which one is the winner atm Upu ?
[19:00] <Upu> original FCD atm
[19:00] <PE2G> cyclops: Did you already order a parachute?
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> didn't try out the electronics today, did work on the B.Sc.
[19:00] <LeoBodnar> I mean is 817 good?
[19:00] <Upu> Trident of doom RocketBoy
[19:00] <Upu> yeah considering its on the colinear its not doing bad
[19:01] <Upu> loads of QRM
[19:01] <craag> Lunar_Lander: No worries, I was just saying hello! Work is hectic at the moment..
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[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> :) yeah
[19:01] <cm13g09> craag: having fun though?
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> seems we won't fly on the balloon in berlin
[19:02] <mclane> Lunar_Lander: launch planned? when?
[19:02] <craag> Carefully deconstructed and soldered wires to a ex-USB 12V -> 5V smpsu, then proceeded to connect it the wrong way across a 12V sla..
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> mclane, we were invited to fly our electrometer on the PTB balloon from Lindenberg on August 6 or 7
[19:03] <cyclops> PE"G no
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> but we won't be ready until then due to problems with getting the system running
[19:03] <craag> cm13g09: Absolutely. Lots of fun stuff coming up, just gotta get 2x working systems built by friday.. with parts arriving tomorrow.
[19:03] <mclane> ah - is the electrometer already running?
[19:03] <cyclops> Not yet PE2G
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[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> mclane, not yet, the opamps seem to go into the limit all the time, and currently there seems to be a short
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> we have to figure out why
[19:04] <LeoBodnar> craag: at least you are still alive
[19:04] <LeoBodnar> craag: ?
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> one difficulty is that touching the protoboard on two places already changes the output
[19:05] <mclane> yea, but that's the problem with any kind of high impedance circuit
[19:05] <craag> LeoBodnar: I am today, having just got back from work. How alive I'll be on friday evening is another matter..
[19:05] <PE2G> cyclops: If you can settle for a used meteorlogical parachute, I can send you one of these:
[19:05] <PE2G> http://www.aeromet.de/products/parachutes/tech__spez__parachutes/tech__spez__parachutes.shtml
[19:05] <craag> Anyway, another reliable float from you I see Leo!
[19:06] <cyclops> the 110 or the 055?
[19:06] <PE2G> Whichever you want
[19:06] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, what sort of flight time are we expecting?
[19:07] <jcoxon> not going to be as easy as B-6 to track
[19:07] <cyclops> price?
[19:07] <LeoBodnar> Lunar_Lander: Solution: clearly mark the places that change the values with placards "DO NOT TOUCH HERE"
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:07] <PE2G> cyclops: zero euro :)
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> I mean it like that
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> you can place your fingers on any place on the board and the output will change
[19:08] <LeoBodnar> 4-5 days jcoxon
[19:08] <cyclops> Its proven to work well? :P
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[19:09] <LeoBodnar> ... in standard lab conditions jcoxon
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[19:09] <cyclops> Hove you successfully used them PE2G ?
[19:10] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/16604_trj001.gif
[19:11] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, I know. It keeps a flight log, hopefully we will hear from it again
[19:11] <PE2G> cyclops: Not myself, but the Dutch met-office has :) The 110 chutes have done one flight with an ozone sonde and are undamaged
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[19:11] <craag> jcoxon: Should have fitted kraken with an rx...
[19:11] <jcoxon> yes!
[19:12] <cyclops> and shipping would be?
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[19:12] <LeoBodnar> What is kraken? I have heard it twice today
[19:12] <jcoxon> well its two things
[19:13] <jcoxon> it is sea buoy
[19:13] <jcoxon> and also the main habitat server
[19:13] <LeoBodnar> Is server afloat?
[19:13] <jcoxon> hopefully not
[19:13] <LeoBodnar> XD
[19:13] <jcoxon> http://track.poseidon.sgsphysics.co.uk/
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[19:14] <relz> What freq is b8 on as I can't see it on the one advertised
[19:15] <fsphil> that's it
[19:15] <Upu> 434.500
[19:15] <Upu> M0DTS should be online soon
[19:16] <fsphil> it's quite low down relz, out of the range of much of england now
[19:16] <LeoBodnar> Hehe, what does Kraken use to report position WSPR?
[19:16] <ChrisstubbsM> We are up
[19:16] <LeoBodnar> Yay!
[19:16] <relz> Ah ok. Thanks
[19:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> YAy!
[19:17] <relz> What freq Chris?
[19:17] <fsphil> LeoBodnar: satellite
[19:17] <ChrisstubbsM> How long since last update
[19:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> 434.300
[19:17] <fsphil> kraken should have had a 434mhz receiver :)
[19:17] <cyclops> One thing a "radar deflector" or something like that is necessary to use?
[19:18] <fsphil> it depends on local regulations
[19:18] <PaulCDR> Upu, are you about?
[19:18] <fsphil> it's not required in the UK, but I believe it is in some countries
[19:18] <cyclops> The fact is that in spain there is no regulation about balloons
[19:19] <Willdude123> I thought it was a radar reflector, not a deflector?
[19:20] <Upu> sorry PaulCDR just a little bust atm
[19:21] <LeoBodnar> going up ChrisstubbsM at 1.7m/s
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[19:21] <jcoxon> sort of
[19:21] <jcoxon> :-)
[19:21] <cm13g09> ChrisstubbsM: data seems rather erratic
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[19:22] <PaulCDR> no problem, let me know when you are free
[19:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> On it's way to Egypt ChrisstubbsM :-)
[19:22] <LeoBodnar> ChrisstubbsM: is it noise or you have local weather?
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[19:22] <ChrisstubbsM> Oops bit fast
[19:23] <[1]iain_g4sgx> LeoBodnar: Have you changed anything on the Tx of B8? May just be my take-off angle but seems harder to receive than I remember.
[19:24] <cm13g09> ChrisstubbsM: I'm getting something
[19:24] <cm13g09> I think
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[19:25] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, ChrisstubbsM Surprisingly I am at 434.295 but the shift seems to be wide
[19:25] <LeoBodnar> Do you mean power maybe lower or signal won't decode?
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[19:26] <M0CJM_Neil> Evening all
[19:26] <[1]iain_g4sgx> The power
[19:26] <DL7AD_QRL> good evening\\
[19:26] Nick change: [1]iain_g4sgx -> G4SGX_Garden
[19:27] <chrisstubbs> Looks fine to me!
[19:27] <DL7AD_QRL> LeoBodnar did you change anything at the duty cycle?
[19:28] <M0CJM_Neil> What are we TXing on for the CHEAPO flight??
[19:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> chrisstubbs: First green :D
[19:28] <chrisstubbs> Whoop
[19:28] <cm13g09> G0TDJ_Steve: where abouts are you?
[19:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> Crayford, just South of the Thames
[19:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> Near Dartofrd
[19:28] <cm13g09> in other words, I should be easily picking it up just north of Chelmsford :P
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[19:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> chrisstubbs: It's a good direction for me, past the hill
[19:29] <LeoBodnar> iain_G4SGX: power is the same
[19:29] Nick change: number10 -> number10_M0MDB
[19:29] <LeoBodnar> DL7AD_QRL: 3-4 minutes of beeps and then 2 sentences
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> hm ubuntu forums were hacked
[19:30] <DL7AD_QRL> LeoBodnar cool :)
[19:31] <Upu> power does seem down from here
[19:31] <Upu> though its getting to the edge of my reception
[19:31] <chrisstubbs> its only about 800m :P
[19:31] <Upu> I don't think I'd be able to find it if I didn't know where it was
[19:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> chrisstubbs: Shouldn't the red lines be outside the yellow waterfall traces? http://i.imgur.com/goCKu8l.jpg
[19:31] <Upu> give me about 20 mins PaulCDR
[19:32] <Lambeta> has anyone here ever done a gps occultation experiment?
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[19:32] <chrisstubbs> bump the shift up to about 450
[19:32] <LeoBodnar> Upu: do you mean it is going down or was low all the way?
[19:32] <Laurenceb__> Lambeta: yes
[19:32] <PaulCDR> No problem, drop me a pm when you get a chance. cheers
[19:32] <chrisstubbs> thats still probably close enough though, could open the bandwith up a bit
[19:32] <Upu> doesn't seem as strong as previous ones
[19:32] <Laurenceb__> with sige sampler
[19:32] <LeoBodnar> Cheers Upu
[19:33] <G0TDJ_Steve> chrisstubbs: Hate to say it but I@ve no idea where the setting is
[19:33] Action: cm13g09 can't find chrisstubbs' balloon!
[19:34] <x-f> G0TDJ_Steve, right click on the "RTTY" in lower left corner of dl-fldigi window
[19:36] <number10_M0MDB> its at 434.296.4
[19:36] <LeoBodnar> G0TDJ_Steve: you probably need to make filter bandwidth wider as well (width of red bands over the yellow traces) Click RTTY at the bottom left corner -> Custom... -> Receive Filter Bandwidth
[19:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cheers x-f Has set shifts,
[19:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> THanks LeoBodnar
[19:37] <LeoBodnar> Play and see if it improves tracking/reception
[19:37] <Upu> cm13g09 if you're after Leo dial in 434.500 and wait
[19:38] <G0TDJ_Steve> Seems better LeoBodnar x-f The freq is slowly drifting upward
[19:38] <LeoBodnar> Interesting that PE2G has been receiving B-8 and you see its mW power lower than usual. Ducting?
[19:38] <fsphil> tis likely
[19:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> Getting good greens now
[19:39] <LeoBodnar> Both balloons are predicted to go to Africa :)
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[19:40] <G0TDJ_Steve> LeoBodnar: In completely different directins LOL
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[19:40] <LeoBodnar> I love this planet
[19:40] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL LeoBodnar
[19:41] <Willdude123> Hi M0CJM_Neil
[19:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey Willdude123 Did you see me reply to you earlier?
[19:41] <G4SGX_Garden> Geez, just realised I hadn't plugged in the antenna.. doh
[19:41] <Lambeta> Laurenceb__, how about did you do the experiment?
[19:41] <Lambeta> ordinary gps reciever sampling data at a hf
[19:42] <Willdude123> G0TDJ_Steve: I think so :)
[19:42] <Laurenceb__> used a ublox to see when a sat was going down/coming up
[19:42] <Willdude123> Did you say anything important? :P
[19:42] <Lambeta> ublox?
[19:42] <Laurenceb__> then setup a sige sampler with the Kai Borre matlab code
[19:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK Cool, just wanted to make sure. This UI is a little flaky at times
[19:42] <Laurenceb__> Lambeta: off the shelf gps module
[19:42] <Laurenceb__> to get the ephemeris
[19:42] <Lambeta> Laurenceb, unlocked?
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[19:43] <Laurenceb__> huh
[19:43] <Lambeta> and as far as my understanding, i do not need a gps lock?
[19:43] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[19:43] <Laurenceb__> wait
[19:43] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[19:43] <Laurenceb__> i used some really basic octave code to do the sat rx
[19:43] <Lambeta> because my module will travel 9km/s
[19:43] <Laurenceb__> so ublox -> FTDI thingy -> python script
[19:43] <Lambeta> okay
[19:43] <Laurenceb__> then gnu octave to grab the sat trace
[19:43] <Lambeta> and you sampled the data how often?
[19:43] <Laurenceb__> got some doppler curves like that
[19:44] <Laurenceb__> erm - its like 2Msps or something
[19:44] <Lambeta> yeah - ill use matlab to process it
[19:44] <Laurenceb__> set by the sige sampler
[19:44] <Lambeta> okay
[19:44] <Laurenceb__> i got bored at that point :P
[19:44] <Lambeta> and how long did you sample for?
[19:44] <Laurenceb__> doppler inversion is hard
[19:44] <Lambeta> to get enough data in order to process it?
[19:44] <Laurenceb__> ~1minute
[19:44] <LeoBodnar> chrisstubbs: your ascent rate is 0.82m/s for the whole flight duration
[19:44] <LeoBodnar> Bang on
[19:45] <G0TDJ_Steve> chrisstubbs: Whats the dx value on the tracker panel represent?
[19:46] <chrisstubbs> Sorry back now
[19:46] <chrisstubbs> Cool thats not bad at all!
[19:46] <Lambeta> Laurenceb, interesting
[19:46] <Lambeta> and you managed to get a result out of it?
[19:47] <chrisstubbs> I failed at venting a little bit of he back out with a straw
[19:47] <Lambeta> we are doing a gps occultation experiment on a nanosatellite
[19:47] <chrisstubbs> Added some kapton tape over the valve to get the free lift down a little
[19:47] <Laurenceb__> Lambeta: interesting
[19:48] <chrisstubbs> Dx is distance from launch site
[19:48] <DL7AD_QRL> http://i.imgur.com/2dZVOTd.gif SWC Europe, Height-Numbers in Hecto-Feet (200 => 20.000ft), ISOL=Isollated, EMBD=Embedded, CB=Culombus Nimbus (thunderstorm), XXX=unlimited high (or ground), _/\_ turbulence, \_||_/ ice
[19:48] <chrisstubbs> in Km
[19:48] <Laurenceb__> yeah i got a doppler trace from around 1 min
[19:48] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cheers chrisstubbs
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[19:49] <G0TDJ_Steve> I@m impressed, FLDigi repoets Elevation at 1.8 and I have a solid sig.
[19:49] <chrisstubbs> Did anyone spot the surprise in the next field from the launch site? ;)
[19:49] <Lambeta> Laurenceb, impressive
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[19:50] <LeoBodnar> I forgot how to read the charts DL7AD_QRL , GR is hail, I remember that
[19:51] <LeoBodnar> Haha yes
[19:51] <DL7AD_QRL> LeoBodnar yes hard to read. i got them from my flight-weather-account of the dwd. that are the special flight charts
[19:52] <Lambeta> Laurenceb__, we are planning on using this module http://www.csgshop.com/product.php?id_product=127
[19:52] <Lambeta> ublox module
[19:52] <Laurenceb__> hmm
[19:52] <Laurenceb__> might work
[19:52] <Laurenceb__> but it will probably need a stronger signal than i was working with
[19:52] <bertrik> I think I can see CHEAPO on the waterfall, is drifting up a bit and slightly wider than the autoconfig value?
[19:52] <Laurenceb__> not sure about that...
[19:52] <Laurenceb__> itd be worth a try
[19:53] <chrisstubbs> bertrik, thats the one
[19:53] <chrisstubbs> where are you?
[19:53] <chrisstubbs> cm13g09, hows it going for you?
[19:54] <Lambeta> Laurenceb__, thats what I worry about -- i'm not directly working with the payload team
[19:54] <DL7AD_QRL> LeoBodnar are there stations in the north of uk?
[19:55] <Laurenceb__> you'd have to try it on the ground to find out
[19:55] <Lambeta> talking with a few CSA engineers who've done it they raised rx levels
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[19:55] <Lambeta> and stated that they needed a large 30cm diameter patch antenna
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[19:55] <bertrik> yay, CHEAPO is starting to come in here :)
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[19:55] <G0TDJ_Steve> niceone bertrik
[19:55] <chrisstubbs> bertrik, where are you based?
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[19:56] <M0CJM_Neil> NNice signals here in Basingstoke
[19:56] <Laurenceb__> <Lam?beta>: using ublox
[19:56] <LeoBodnar> DL7AD_QRL: I don't think so.
[19:57] <bertrik> chrisstubbs: I'm controlling the RevSpace receiver, at the hague, netherlands
[19:57] <chrisstubbs> Ah pretty close then :)
[19:57] <chrisstubbs> You should get a fair bit of this flight
[19:58] <bertrik> just got first green on CHEAPO, at -0.7 elevation
[19:58] <Laurenceb__> is cheapo rtty?
[19:58] <bertrik> yes
[19:58] <chrisstubbs> Laurenceb, yeah
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[19:59] <Laurenceb__> need the guys in newcastle to wake up
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[20:00] <chrisstubbs> RocketBoy, coming your way!
[20:00] <bertrik> I think there was someone in denmark with a receiver setup, don't see him on the map though
[20:01] <RocketBoy> i'll break out the rx
[20:01] <chrisstubbs> Awesome :D Cheers!
[20:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I'm in York tonight!
[20:02] <cyclops> Upu when you have a moment i'd like talk with you
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[20:03] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> U'm a sn B-8 ?econd dip i
[20:03] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> second*
[20:04] <LeoBodnar> We'll see, it's the weather...
[20:04] <LeoBodnar> Maybe rain or frost?
[20:04] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> There is quite a bit of cloud kicking around at present up here
[20:05] <Laurenceb__> sunset
[20:05] <bertrik> The signal has faded for me, I'll wait for it to get higher
[20:05] <Laurenceb__> sun is setting now
[20:06] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'm getting QSB every so often
[20:07] <kpiman> B-8 Just give out a flight log, Very nice touch
[20:07] <G0TDJ_Steve> kpiman: Could you paste for those of us who haven't seen it?
[20:08] <Upu> http://pastebin.com/ndPhtQBd
[20:08] <Upu> later cyclops sorry busy atm
[20:08] <G0TDJ_Steve> Thanks Tony
[20:08] <Steve_2E0VET> hi all anyone know the link for configuring NTX2 and Ublox arduino module
[20:08] <cyclops> No problem, when you have a moment
[20:09] <kpiman> thanks Upu
[20:09] <DL7AD_QRL> moisture is very likely at the current point
[20:09] <Steve_2E0VET> thanks zeusbot
[20:10] <Willdude123> Upu: Your twitter profile pic is scary.
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[20:10] <brize> hi all i am watch out for the payload in suffolk
[20:11] <Laurenceb__> http://www.sat24.com/?culture=en
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[20:11] <Steve_2E0VET> zeusbot, Thats the Arduino and NTX2, I thought there was one for Arduino, NTX2 and ublox ?
[20:11] <chrisstubbs> Evening brize
[20:12] <brize> hi chris the wind is light
[20:12] <mfa298_> Steve_2E0VET: there's another guide for ublox and arduino you have to provide the glue to join the two together
[20:12] <chrisstubbs> Steve_2E0VET, http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox6 explains the connection to the ublox
[20:13] <chrisstubbs> gluing them together is a case of writing your own code and is all part of the fun!
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[20:13] <chrisstubbs> Where are you from brize?
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[20:13] <Steve_2E0VET> urm.. I wouldnt know where to start... Well havent got the radio yet, so i will probably leave it for another day, and guess what... probably ask on here lol
[20:13] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[20:14] <chrisstubbs> Steve_2E0VET, well you are in the right place! Have a go at the tutorials and pop on if you have any trouble
[20:14] <mfa298_> Steve_2E0VET: start off simple, get the two things working seperately then hopefully it shouldn't be too hard to join them together.
[20:15] <mfa298_> it's important you understand how it works so when it breaks you know how to fix it. That's why there isn't just a block of code to use.
[20:15] <Steve_2E0VET> will do. i have the ublox working, albet it seems intermittent but that could just be me, unfortunatly i had to work outside on the laptop at midnight to get any results
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[20:16] <chrisstubbs> bad cheapo, go back up!
[20:16] <chrisstubbs> there we go
[20:16] <LeoBodnar> Interesting that the B-8 internal temperature is dropping even with descent. Is it in a pocket of cold air that is sucking it down?
[20:16] <chrisstubbs> Steve_2E0VET, how are you powering the ublox. they are sensitve to psu noise
[20:17] <mfa298_> Steve_2E0VET: is that the ublox working with an arduino or just plugged into a PC.
[20:17] <Steve_2E0VET> argh... i have a question. i took the coordinates the gps pumped out and put them into google earth (or some mapping software) and it said I was in Sheffield, however i was about 20 miles away as the crow flies. any ideas?
[20:17] <Randomskk> Steve_2E0VET: put an @ first
[20:17] <Randomskk> as in, on google mas, search @52.12345,-0.01345
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[20:17] <Randomskk> wait
[20:18] <Randomskk> you might have a different problem
[20:18] <Steve_2E0VET> Randomskk, it wasnt actually google earth, that was an example because I couldnt remember which one it was
[20:18] <Randomskk> give the gps a bit of time and check you have the format right
[20:18] <mfa298_> also make sure you're tellling the mapping which side of the meridian you are.
[20:18] <Steve_2E0VET> ok, lets approach this from a different angle, can you recommend a site for me to put the coordinates into
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[20:19] <LeoBodnar> http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/df5b557049df9d0236fc9804e6dbd9ab and CHEAPO is on there too
[20:19] <Steve_2E0VET> i'll wander out side with the laptop and do it again
[20:19] Action: cm13g09 can't find chrisstubbs' payload :(
[20:20] <PaulCDR> i have used gps visualizer before steve http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/
[20:20] <mfa298_> lat/long I'd tend to put into google earth/maps
[20:20] <chrisstubbs> Ahh cmon cm13g09! Where do you have your antenna?
[20:20] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Are yuo just pasting the NMEA co-ords ?
[20:20] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: it's a dipole indoors
[20:20] <chrisstubbs> ha
[20:20] <chrisstubbs> *hm
[20:20] <chrisstubbs> at this range that should be fine
[20:21] <chrisg7ogx> nice nice Cheapo
[20:21] <mfa298_> cm13g09: getting the antenna out the window could make a big difference.
[20:22] <cm13g09> mfa298_: ok
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[20:24] <fsphil> I'm not sure what the current predictions are drawing
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[20:24] <Rob_M0DTS_work> need some scottish trackers...
[20:24] <cm13g09> I'm just about to upload a couple of screengrabs of dl-fldigi and gqrx
[20:24] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar, our live prediction paths seem to be drawing a large bottom in the direction of norway
[20:24] <cm13g09> http://hosting.cmalton.me.uk/chrism/hab/gqrx.png
[20:25] <cm13g09> http://hosting.cmalton.me.uk/chrism/hab/dlfldigi.png
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[20:27] <chrisstubbs> If i was using srd#m i would tune that center frequency away from what I am looking for
[20:27] <chrisstubbs> then click around the 434.300 mark and zoom in
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[20:28] <LeoBodnar> LOL
[20:28] <chrisstubbs> I expect the big line you have on your waterfall is the iq feedback thingy from the sdr (which I dont really understand)
[20:28] <cm13g09> yes
[20:28] <chrisg7ogx> that gqrx looks nice and clean
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[20:29] <chrisstubbs> those two lines just to the right of your reds in dlfldigi *could* be the payload, but seem very weak
[20:29] <cm13g09> chrisg7ogx: was that sarcasm?
[20:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> Loosing CHEAPO in the noise ATM chrisstubbs
[20:30] <chrisg7ogx> no not at all uncluttered and so in my opinion user friendly
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[20:31] <LeoBodnar> CHEAPO coming to float nicely
[20:31] <chrisstubbs> cheapo seems to have tailed off on the ascent rate! A little low
[20:31] <bertrik> What shift are you using for CHEAPO now? I'm trying 470 Hz
[20:32] <chrisstubbs> twice the weight half the float altitude LeoBodnar?
[20:32] <chrisstubbs> bertrik, 450 is working for me
[20:32] <LeoBodnar> What was your payload weight chrisstubbs ?
[20:32] <chrisstubbs> 35g without tape
[20:32] <chrisg7ogx> i have the default shift of 425 Hz working nicely
[20:33] <mfa298_> cm13g09: you might be tuned a little low I think I've got it around 434.298
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[20:33] <chrisstubbs> yeah 434.298.50 here
[20:33] <bertrik> hm, ok, finally getting greens again, using 470 Hz shift
[20:33] <chrisstubbs> http://i.imgur.com/rSzNBSq.png
[20:34] <chrisstubbs> my pc's sound card is a hell of a lot cleaner than the netbook I used to use
[20:35] <Steve_2E0VET> Where am I $GPGLL 5338.58809 N 00144.60412 W
[20:35] <LeoBodnar> Should float at about this altitude for 35-40g weight http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/projects:microballoons:foil-floaters-leo.png?id=projects%3Amicroballoons%3Adata
[20:35] <mfa298_> and I think I've finally got rig control working, had cheapo on the waterfall but high up. turned on the tracking feature and it retuned the radio and moved location on the waterfall :D
[20:35] <chrisstubbs> mfa298_, is that CAT through dl-fldigi?
[20:35] <Steve_2E0VET> PaulCDR, How do you enter coordinates in gps visulier, it seems to want a file
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[20:36] <arko> LeoBodnar: how much current does your board draw on transmit?
[20:36] <Lambeta> how would I setup fldigi to decode GFSK?
[20:36] <chrisstubbs> Ok cool, cheers LeoBodnar
[20:36] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Steve_2E0VET, You are telling it that its NMEA not lat/long
[20:36] <Lambeta> I can't seem to get anything out of tuning to a GFSK signal
[20:36] <PaulCDR> Steve, if you hit this part, you can copy and paste it in http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/map_input
[20:36] <cm13g09> anyone got a dial freq for mfa298_ ok
[20:36] <mfa298_> chrisstubbs: yep CAT using rigcat with the TS2000
[20:36] <cm13g09> lol
[20:36] <cm13g09> fail
[20:37] <Steve_2E0VET> Geoff-G8DHE, I thought $GPGLL was LAT/LONG
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[20:37] <mfa298_> Steve_2E0VET: that gives me an address in huddersfield
[20:37] <chrisstubbs> steve its formatted in DDMM.MMMMMM
[20:37] <PaulCDR> you can just paste in lat and lon and it will plot all the points onto a map for you
[20:37] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> the format is DDMM.mmmm not DD.ddddd
[20:37] <mfa298_> that's in google earth
[20:37] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, correct cheers
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[20:38] <Steve_2E0VET> i presume this data will e ok to track the balloon
[20:38] <cm13g09> mfa298_: I just can't find this :P
[20:38] <mfa298_> Steve_2E0VET: this is what I put into google earth @53 38.58809, -001 44.60412 (note the added spaces and change W into a -ve number )
[20:39] <Upu> better hope M0DTS gets online soon
[20:39] <Upu> as I'm running out of radio horizon
[20:39] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, cheers, I'll download GE now
[20:39] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> You need to convert to DD.dddddd for tracking
[20:40] <Steve_2E0VET> thers more to this than meets the eye lol
[20:40] <Upu> ping PaulCDR
[20:40] <Upu> here now
[20:40] <cm13g09> any pointers mfa298_
[20:40] <mfa298_> Steve_2E0VET: you can probably put something similar into Google Maps
[20:40] <cm13g09> because I can see where I think it is
[20:40] <LeoBodnar> It's going down fast and still at freezing temperature
[20:41] <craag> cm13g09: 0x4B3EFF
[20:41] <LeoBodnar> That's one British summer! XD
[20:41] <cm13g09> craag: NOT HELPFUL
[20:41] <craag> cm13g09: :P
[20:41] <LeoBodnar> Hottest day of the year and all
[20:41] <craag> You got the rtl-sdr running?
[20:41] <cm13g09> craag: I believe so
[20:41] <craag> sdrsharp?
[20:41] <cm13g09> no
[20:41] <cm13g09> gqrx
[20:41] <cm13g09> because it's native
[20:42] <mfa298_> cm13g09: if you're able to zoom in on gqrx around 434.298 you might get to see the rtty there.
[20:42] <cm13g09> SDR# under mono was like trying to wade through molasses, even on an i7
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[20:42] <chrisstubbs> If anyone on cheapo can actually get B-8 please switch, I have loads of people now
[20:42] <craag> yeah mono doesn't run all the optimised filter stuff.
[20:43] <craag> It's good on windows native.
[20:43] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> anything flying tomorrow ?
[20:43] <craag> Probably time for me to try a gqrx install though
[20:43] <chrisstubbs> Geoff-G8DHE, Depends how lucky im feeling ;)
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[20:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> TRue! OK I'm off got to make this camp tidy! SUS
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[20:45] <Upu> ping cyclops
[20:45] <cm13g09> craag: I've switched to SDRSharp
[20:45] <cyclops> here i am
[20:45] <cm13g09> and I'm not getting any furthere there
[20:45] <cyclops> Private or here?
[20:45] <chrisg7ogx> i'm using sdr console very successfully
[20:46] <cm13g09> chrisg7ogx: under Linux?
[20:46] <Upu> B-8 is out of my range now
[20:46] <Upu> help us M0DTS you're our only home
[20:46] <Upu> hope
[20:46] <G0TDJ_Steve> That's a shame Tony...
[20:46] <chrisg7ogx> oh sorry not reading all the mail no its windows only
[20:46] <cyclops> upu how doI open a private conversation?
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[20:46] <Upu> type /query Upu
[20:47] <Steve_2E0VET> Once I have the $GPGLL data how do i get the position onto spacenear.us. is there a tutorial hanging about anywhere
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[20:49] <chrisstubbs> Steve_2E0VET, you want your data formatted like this: http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[20:49] <chrisstubbs> so have a think about converting from arcminuited to decimal degrees
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[20:50] <chrisstubbs> you can either use a GPS library for the arduino, or write your own parser
[20:50] <chrisstubbs> just a case of splitting up the data from the ,'s
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[20:53] <DL7AD_QRL> that does not match: G0EHV haas an excellent transceiver but no excellent antenna.
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[20:56] <g4sgx-iain> Been tracking using vodafone on aWWAN card cos my internet dodgy. Data use is on Fl-digi is about 600Kb an hour, just over £0:01 an hour on a PAYG sim. Nice..
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[20:58] <chrisstubbs> CHEAPO-6 launch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZuO9XqmVL4&feature=youtu.be
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[20:59] <chrisstubbs> The yellow balloon was a bit on the slow side
[21:00] <chrisg7ogx> someone on local VHF asking me what is the longest a balloon has been up?
[21:00] <chrisstubbs> 72 hours I think?
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> chrisg7ogx, you mean like these flights or the longest balloon flight ever?
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[21:01] <chrisg7ogx> these flights
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[21:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> nice vid chrisg7ogx
[21:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> Sorry, wrong chris LOL
[21:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nice Vid chrisstubbs
[21:03] <chrisg7ogx> 72 hours ok tks
[21:03] <chrisstubbs> chrisg7ogx, http://ukhas.org.uk/general:uk_records
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[21:04] <cm13g09> still can't find this damned balloon....
[21:04] <Iain-G4SGX_> I was always told for a groundplane 1/4 wave the radials had to be at 45 degrees to make a 50 ohm impedance. Is this not applicable ?
[21:04] <Steve_2E0VET> chrisstubbs, Thanks for that, but as i am a NOOOB, i best possibly get more details once I have bilt it and got the radio to test something is coming out
[21:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> cm13g09: It's a pain to find it the first time. Keep looking.
[21:05] <Steve_2E0VET> hopefully i will have my FT-817 on the weekend wife permitting
[21:05] <cm13g09> G0TDJ_Steve: I don't see how it's so hard.....
[21:06] <G0TDJ_Steve> I always find it hard to tune SDRs Persevere
[21:06] <chrisg7ogx> Leo's B6 balloon Flight duration: 70.9 hours (from 14/Jul/2013 18:42 UTC till 17/Jul/2013 17:37 UTC - last known position) Launch site: Silverstone, UK Last known position: 6633 metres above Paris, France Float duration: 68.7 hours (last known position was in float state) Power source: 1xAA battery Free lift: 1.3 grams. Downlink mode: DominoEX 16 on 434.500MHz Transmitter power level: 10mW
[21:06] <Iain-G4SGX_> Otherwise you lose up to 25% of radiated power.
[21:07] <chrisstubbs> RocketBoy, If I order a couple more foils now do you think they will get to me by the weekend?
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[21:07] <chrisg7ogx> what happens to the helium in the balloon?
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[21:08] <Steve_2E0VET> chrisg7ogx, BOOOOMMM I presume
[21:08] <RocketBoy> chrisstubbs: Probably - they will go 1st class tomorrow if you put the order innow
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[21:08] <mfa298_> Iain-G4SGX_: I believe that's true although the loss through mismatch if they're at 90 degrees may not be that significant so for payloads it tends to depend on whats easiest to manage
[21:08] <chrisg7ogx> ??? from friend does it leak microscopically or just carry on stretching the membrane till boom??
[21:09] <chrisstubbs> Done :)
[21:09] <Steve_2E0VET> chrisg7ogx, i have no idea, thats the most sensible thing i could think of lol
[21:10] <RocketBoy> chrisstubbs: save me looking - how many did you order
[21:10] <RocketBoy> I'll get em now
[21:10] <chrisstubbs> 3
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[21:10] <chrisstubbs> cheers:D
[21:10] <RocketBoy> just gathering stuff together to ship out tomorrow
[21:11] <Steve_2E0VET> chrisstubbs, Do you ever recover the foils or do they just drift
[21:11] <chrisstubbs> Great, want to try and get a few more picos up this week
[21:11] <RocketBoy> orders are like buses - they come in packs
[21:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> Go Chris :-)
[21:11] <chrisstubbs> G0TDJ_Steve recovered my last one
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[21:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> :D
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[21:12] <chrisstubbs> which was great of him :D
[21:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> Steve_2E0VET: It was fun watching it fly over my house
[21:12] <G4SGX> Geez, damn internet round here is rubbish., keep disconnecting... I think its worth sticking an analyser to check. Its only 10mW and all the QRP freaks concentrate on their antennas.
[21:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> It was a pleasure Chris
[21:12] <Steve_2E0VET> you must lose a fortune in tracking equipment lol
[21:12] <gonzo__> oh, what a shock. Discovered I only have a couple of ntx2 in stock and a single upu gps!
[21:12] <gonzo__> must sit down!
[21:13] <chrisstubbs> cheapo 1 was on a latex which i recovered, same for cheapo2. cheapo3 was a failed floater that ended up in the sea before washing up in germany. cheapo4 landed near dartford. cheapo5 flew this weekend and had bad GPS problems
[21:13] <Upu> please order some more
[21:13] <chrisstubbs> this is cheapo6
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[21:13] <gonzo__> I will do upu. This is not satisfactory!
[21:15] <chrisg7ogx> cheers chrisstubbs
[21:15] <craag> lol gonzo__
[21:15] <chrisstubbs> Oh shoot, I only have enough boost regulators for one more flight
[21:15] Action: chrisstubbs checks current ebay orders
[21:16] <Steve_2E0VET> ive just bought a couple of RadioSonde, can these be converted to a legal frequency?
[21:16] <Upu> nope Steve
[21:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> How can M0UPU-1 and M0UPU-2 be monitoring CHEAPO and B8 at the same time?
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[21:16] <Steve_2E0VET> upu oh dear
[21:16] <Upu> G0TDJ_Steve hehe I'm not
[21:16] <Upu> note time
[21:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh! You lost B8 yes?
[21:16] <LazyLeopard> B-8 sank...
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[21:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> Doh!
[21:17] <Steve_2E0VET> G0TDJ_Steve, did i buy them from you?
[21:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> Buy what Steve?
[21:17] <Steve_2E0VET> G0TDJ_Steve, ignore that....
[21:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL... I was about to become confused
[21:18] <Steve_2E0VET> Upu, correct person this time - did i buy them from you lol
[21:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-)
[21:18] <Upu> Radio Sondes ?
[21:18] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: we think it's my Ant
[21:18] <DL7AD_QRL> theres a need of an auxilary balloon
[21:18] <Upu> not me
[21:18] <Steve_2E0VET> upu yes
[21:18] <cm13g09> it's a bit well tuned to 2m
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[21:18] <Steve_2E0VET> i'm now CONFUSED!!
[21:18] <chrisstubbs> possibly, it is a bit far now. when it was close your should have got it with a stripped bit of coax
[21:19] <cm13g09> lol
[21:20] <mfa298_> G4SGX: I think you might have missed what I poseted before in answer to your query about GP antennas
[21:20] <mfa298_> 21:08 < mfa298_> Iain-G4SGX_: I believe that's true although the loss through mismatch if they're at 90 degrees may not be that significant so for payloads it tends to depend on whats easiest to manage
[21:20] <chrisg7ogx> will leave tracker o/n but not allways at the keyboard nice strong sigs on the south coast
[21:21] <mfa298_> cm13g09: the 2m dipole should work, the two bands are harmonically related. although a 70cm GP antenna isn't hard to make.
[21:21] <cm13g09> mfa298_: well, as craag has just seen
[21:21] <cm13g09> it quite clearly doesn't!
[21:21] <craag> mfa298_: No sign of any signal :(
[21:21] <LeoBodnar> I have fallen asleep :)
[21:21] <craag> Could be his is especially bad or something.
[21:22] <mfa298_> that might be location then. I've had a good range with mine
[21:22] <LeoBodnar> Has M0DTS been around?
[21:22] <craag> LeoBodnar: No sign of him yet.
[21:23] <craag> I think he was getting back from work at 10pm, so should be on soon.
[21:23] Action: cm13g09 thinks we need more 2m balloons... (if that is such a thing
[21:23] <LeoBodnar> Righto
[21:23] <craag> cm13g09: Not til we get an NoV for airborne :(
[21:23] <mfa298_> cm13g09: not allowed (no airborne use in uk license)
[21:24] <cm13g09> ah
[21:24] <cm13g09> fair enough
[21:25] Action: cm13g09 won't get time to build a 70cm ant for a while
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[21:26] <mfa298_> If you've got some coax, a plug, some wire and wooden skewers (or similar) you can make something pretty quickly
[21:26] <cm13g09> lol
[21:26] Action: cm13g09 doesn't fancy ordering an entire reel of coax
[21:27] <cm13g09> not unless there's a lot of people who want RG213 or RG58
[21:27] <cm13g09> RG58 is reasonably priced
[21:27] Action: mfa298_ reckons having a drum of coax should be part of the radio examination.
[21:28] <mfa298_> for a short length (a few meters) rg58 is fine for 434
[21:28] <cm13g09> £34 a reel
[21:28] <RocketBoy> Perhaps Upu or I should carry some
[21:28] <RocketBoy> and sell it by the M
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[21:31] <cm13g09> RocketBoy: wouldn't be a bad idea ;)
[21:31] <cm13g09> although for RG58 at £34 a reel
[21:32] <cm13g09> it's hardly bank-breaking
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/07/19/fake-signs-warn-of-drones-patrolling-bay-area-highways/ - haha
[21:33] <chrisstubbs> rg58 is about £1.50 per m in maplin which isnt bad considering its maplin...
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> At CHP we definitely do not have drones. We use radar, lidar, pace, we have planes and we have helicopters, but we do not have drones, he said. Along with not having drones we definitely do not have any drones that would fire any type of weaponry.
[21:34] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: You said the M word....
[21:34] <cm13g09> (Top tip, I have CPC and Farnell accounts....)
[21:35] <mfa298_> that reel price isn't that different from when I got mine for 10base2 networking.
[21:35] <cm13g09> lol
[21:36] <RocketBoy> eek - Maplins - I have to be really pushed to buy something from them
[21:36] <mfa298_> although mine was from maplin so if thats a cpc price that makes sense.
[21:36] <gonzo__> a reminder to anyone in the soutn. Flight Refuelling Hamfest is Sunday August 11th.
[21:36] <gonzo__> westlake cables will be there
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[21:37] <mfa298_> gonzo__: should be coming to the rally although I've got half a drum of w103 here already
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[21:37] <Rob_m0dts> B8 signal ok here packet soon...
[21:37] <x-f> woo!
[21:37] <Rob_m0dts> just got back in!
[21:38] <LeoBodnar> Hehe! Nice job Rob_m0dts
[21:38] <mfa298_> having a source of good quality connectors might be useful as well if someone did start stocking cable.
[21:38] <Rob_m0dts> 2.9km up
[21:38] <LeoBodnar> YOu are the last frontier!
[21:38] <arko> oh no
[21:38] <arko> its coming down
[21:38] <Rob_m0dts> ha
[21:39] <Upu> err http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_66&product_id=88
[21:39] <Upu> RG174 + SMA on it
[21:39] <Rob_m0dts> i'l leave rx running...back in abit
[21:39] <LeoBodnar> MUst have been hammered by rain
[21:39] <Upu> enjoy
[21:39] <LeoBodnar> Cheers!
[21:40] <mfa298_> Upu the earlier comment was about having by the meter of rg58/rg213
[21:40] <Upu> ah sorry
[21:41] <Laurenceb__> might just get lucky
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[21:41] <Laurenceb__> you need a sugar cube on the bottom
[21:41] <mfa298_> although I might stick tomy earlier comment that buyingsome coax should be part of the license.
[21:41] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> Buying? Meh.
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> Kids today.
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[21:42] <mfa298_> fair enough s/buying/owning/
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> When I was a lad, we drew our own wire, threaded it carefully through selected catgut, and then wove the outer case with loving care.
[21:43] <chrisstubbs> Laurenceb, thats a very good idea
[21:43] <arko> i dont believe i've ever seen LeoBodnar's payloads land
[21:43] <chrisstubbs> need more of that out of the box thinking
[21:43] <arko> it's just going to shoot back up again
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[21:43] <DL7AD_QRL> LeoBodnar B-8 is not hammered down by rain. KT5TK and i launched a balloon last weekend and its descent was much stronger than yours.
[21:44] <LeoBodnar> Ah, OK, thermal instability maybe?
[21:46] <DL7AD_QRL> i think it just got a bit moisture from the clouds beeing in this region
[21:46] <LeoBodnar> Quite possible, and cannot dry out because of 100% humidity?
[21:46] <G0TDJ_Steve> Sadly, almost lost CHEAPO completely. I hope the prediction is correct and it starts moving East
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[21:48] <arko> aww its not day time
[21:48] <arko> i was gonna say you could hope some albedo would save the day
[21:48] <chrisstubbs> ehh im starting to lose it too now! :(
[21:48] <chrisstubbs> should have put the yagi up :(
[21:49] <DL7AD_QRL> LeoBodnar im not sure. think about B-6. unexpected recovered in noth france ^^ ours dropped 2.2m/sec
[21:49] <DL7AD_QRL> with 5g lift
[21:49] <LeoBodnar> Oh really? What balloon was it?
[21:49] <G0TDJ_Steve> chrisstubbs: My Mate Lee is doing well with it
[21:50] <DL7AD_QRL> mylar. it just got 4miles far away
[21:50] <LeoBodnar> Very interesting. Do you have altitude profile pictures?
[21:50] <Rob_m0dts> Domino16 at its limits now last decode right in the noise, maybe last... $$B-8,422,21494855.9877,0.6274,2370,5,1.47,13*09a8
[21:50] <DL7AD_QRL> we launched it again and the ballon was ripped off in 14.000ft. it fell down and landed on concrete at a speed of 15m/sec
[21:51] <DL7AD_QRL> LeoBodnar http://kt5tk.wordpress.com/2013/07/22/the-k5w-11-balloon-blt33-5-and-blt33-6/
[21:51] <LeoBodnar> Cheers Rob_m0dts
[21:51] <Rob_m0dts> over the horizon now!
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[21:54] <chrisstubbs> Anyone tracking cheapo, can you paste me line 809 please
[21:54] <chrisstubbs> dropped a 0 on the lng for me, want to see if its just scrambled rtty or a software fault
[21:54] <Upu> $$$$CHEAPO,809,215252,52.228661,01.257110,328,8,1,1.26,11,1,79.88*0DF0
[21:54] <chrisstubbs> Ah nice, just my end
[21:55] <chrisstubbs> not getting close to 12km so wont be able to test the navigation mode this time
[21:55] <LeoBodnar> So it has ruptured DL7AD_QRL ?
[21:55] <DL7AD_QRL> yes totally
[21:56] <DL7AD_QRL> because of any reason
[21:56] <DL7AD_QRL> its likely that it popped
[21:57] <chrisstubbs> What was the link for that site that generates graphs from habitat data?
[21:57] <arko> http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/
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[21:57] <Upu> LeoBodnar not my most exciting work :)
[21:57] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzDGeg7U5RE&feature=youtu.be
[21:57] <chrisstubbs> arko there was one that would plot things like temp and voltage
[21:58] <arko> click the graph button below
[21:58] <Upu> just testing my new CHDK script
[21:58] <chrisstubbs> Oh wow neat :)
[21:59] <Rob_m0dts> $$B-8,425,2a6,56.o22,0.6198,2203,5,1.48,15|B73f $$a8,426,257488i.00n,61812L848D,1.49,15c3b .ertnott
[21:59] <LeoBodnar> Fantastic video! Upu
[22:00] <LeoBodnar> Still hear it Rob_m0dts ?
[22:00] <Rob_m0dts> very weak!
[22:02] <Rebounder> Upu: great video! i will fall asleep very fast tonight..
[22:02] <Upu> lol
[22:02] <Rob_m0dts> thats it, last decode was gibberish.. might come up a little for ne more as it's totally sea path but unlikely.
[22:02] <LeoBodnar> Nice soundtrack too :-)
[22:03] <Rob_m0dts> ha its come back up a bit...
[22:03] <LeoBodnar> What's the weather like in your neck of woods?
[22:03] <LeoBodnar> Rob_m0dts: ?
[22:04] <Rob_m0dts> cloudy no rain about
[22:04] <Rob_m0dts> just got one big curst of signal... odd decodes:
[22:04] <Rob_m0dts> $$Be,189,140014,53.8297,0.24,7510,7,1.45,5*1e03 $B-8,249,160044,54.4256,0.5915,7464,7,1.44,4*1eba $$B-8,309,180209,54.9999,0.7877,7119,9,1.43,-1*c58a $$B-8,369,200259,55.5896,0.8468,6053,5,1.43,-2*cae8 $$B-8,427,220019,56.0095,0.6148,2166,6,1.48,16*c08d
[22:04] <LeoBodnar> They are flight log
[22:04] <Rob_m0dts> aaah cool
[22:04] <LeoBodnar> rolled past two hours
[22:04] <DL7AD_QRL> it recoveres itselves :D
[22:07] <DL7AD_QRL> or not
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[22:08] <LeoBodnar> More not than yes
[22:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> Who does the programming for the HAB part of FLDigi?
[22:10] <craag> Hmm I wonder how well this runs HAB Modem.. : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/24/google_unveils_nextgen_nexus_7_android_43_tablet_to_take_on_apple/
[22:10] <chrisstubbs> G0TDJ_Steve, its on jcoxon's github
[22:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> chrisstubbs: Does jcoxon develop it then?
[22:11] <jcoxon> there is a team of us
[22:11] <chrisstubbs> I was running habmodem on my s4 today, need a 3.5mm cable for it really
[22:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> jcoxon: Can I drop you an e-mail. Just got a small suggestion that's a bit too long winded to go into on here
[22:12] <jcoxon> sure
[22:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> Can you pm me your e-mail add please?
[22:16] <LeoBodnar> How can you still receive it Rob_m0dts ?!
[22:16] <Rob_m0dts> probably ducting over the sea surface
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[22:19] <DL7AD_QRL> does anyone hav a boat to recover it? ^^
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[22:20] <LeoBodnar> Hehe
[22:20] <gonzo__> I've seen signals over the predicted horizon
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[22:20] <mattbrejza> is cheapo just heaver, or smaller balloon, or both?
[22:20] <gonzo__> that mode is just better at marginal snr
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[22:21] <Rob_m0dts> B8 come back up to S3 at this moment so definately sea duct, the lower B8 gets the better signal i will get likely until a certain point
[22:21] <DL7AD_QRL> wow
[22:22] <gonzo__> interesting
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[22:22] <gonzo__> certain point = splash?
[22:22] <DL7AD_QRL> yes when it falls in the wather you cant receive it anymore
[22:22] <DL7AD_QRL> :D
[22:23] <gonzo__> well it has happened before and still rxed
[22:23] <Rob_m0dts> * i can sea the north sea from my antenna so that helps
[22:23] <gonzo__> and floated back on the tide
[22:23] <Rob_m0dts> *see even!
[22:23] <gonzo__> useful
[22:24] <bertrik> I'll leave the receiver at RevSpace.nl, the hague running tonight, goodnight!
[22:24] <chrisstubbs> mattbrejza, cheapo is 35g, about twice as heavy as B-8
[22:24] <Rob_m0dts> this is the upper air plot for North Sea: http://weather.uwyo.edu/cgi-bin/sounding?region=europe&TYPE=GIF%3ASKEWT&YEAR=2013&MONTH=07&FROM=2412&TO=2412&STNM=01400
[22:24] <chrisstubbs> http://www.flickr.com/photos/68579973@N02/
[22:25] <mattbrejza> thats basically a brick :P
[22:26] <DL7AD_QRL> propably when it touches the water, the balloon stayes dry and lift off next day? :)
[22:26] <jcoxon> DL7AD_QRL, well we have previously thought of that
[22:26] <chrisstubbs> mattbrejza, a floating brick, dont tell the CAA!
[22:26] <jcoxon> having an extra string below with a small float
[22:27] <DL7AD_QRL> hey cool :)
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[22:28] <jcoxon> DL7AD_QRL, never been done though
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
[22:29] <LeoBodnar> gn!
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[22:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> Seeya LeoBodnar
[22:30] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh, I bet it was Lunar going
[22:30] <chrisstubbs> Im off too. Thanks to all those who have tracker/are tracking :)
[22:30] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL
[22:30] <LeoBodnar> Oh yes :)
[22:30] <chrisstubbs> *tracked
[22:30] <LeoBodnar> see you lter chrisstubbs
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[22:30] <gonzo__> what's the cheeop freq?
[22:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> Seeya Chris.....tooo late
[22:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> 434.298
[22:31] <gonzo__> ta. Looks to be out of ramnge but will try
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[22:32] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good oh. Unfortunately, it's being shadowed by terrain here.
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[22:36] <Rob_m0dts> last partial.. looks like 1100m alt
[22:36] <Rob_m0dts> t84e nm-5,444,a 5oeg,56.0548,0.i3,11a, I.in62a5ria6
[22:36] <DL7AD_QRL> okay is M0DTS still receiving?
[22:36] <Rob_m0dts> gone weak again
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> I am amazed you picked up even that - it's way beyond horizon
[22:38] <Rob_m0dts> yes not bad really
[22:39] <Rob_m0dts> aH$B-U,rr4F,223724,50a5,0.6593,1064,6,1.5,23*9d0a
[22:41] <DL7AD_QRL> 1064m thats low
[22:41] <LeoBodnar> It just won't give up
[22:41] <M6PFX> when you run one of those radiometrix boards like shown on the UKHAS site with a arduino , there is no antenna so how close does it need to be near the radio to get picked up?
[22:42] <craag> M6PFX: Within 10m or so
[22:42] <craag> 10 metres
[22:42] <M6PFX> ok
[22:44] <Rob_m0dts> $$B-8,448,224 e4,'6.0608O0.67,867,6,1.51,24*6Hfb stil falling..
[22:44] <craag> mattbrejza: Did you want some rf data? I can run it overnight.
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[22:44] <LeoBodnar> Yes, pretty constant rate as well
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[22:48] <Rob_m0dts> B8 no decode last signal.. extremely weak now, probably my lot!
[22:49] <LeoBodnar> Thanks for tracking it all the way down Rob_m0dts !
[22:49] <DL7AD_QRL> next time we should attatch an ping pong ball at the bottom ;)
[22:49] <Rob_m0dts> no problem, gl with the next one!
[22:49] <LeoBodnar> Yeah :)
[22:49] <LeoBodnar> Cheers
[22:49] <DL7AD_QRL> Rob_m0dts keep on receiving. maybe its coming back next day
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[22:50] <LeoBodnar> Haha
[22:50] <Rob_m0dts> i cant leave rx on but wil check tomottoe, freq stability is excellent on B8.
[22:50] <Rob_m0dts> *tomorrow
[22:50] <fsphil> you say tomottoe, I say tomatoe
[22:50] <Rob_m0dts> ;-)
[22:51] <gonzo__> I say, bacon buttie
[22:51] <fsphil> mmm
[22:51] <Rob_m0dts> ooh yes
[22:52] <gonzo__> must put a balloon up. need bacon
[22:52] <LeoBodnar> Why not?!
[22:52] <cyclops> ping upu
[22:52] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'm hoping that the prediction for CHEAPO is correct and past Lowestoft, it'll start heading a little eastward. Might re-acquire then
[22:53] <LeoBodnar> OK guys! Good night for now! :)
[22:53] <G0TDJ_Steve> GN Leo OB :D
[22:53] <LeoBodnar> Thanks for tracking !
[22:53] <DL7AD_QRL> gn
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[22:58] <M6PFX-1> sorry who said to me on here the range was 10m for the radiometrix boards?
[22:59] <fsphil> hopefully nobody
[22:59] <fsphil> with a short wire antenna the range should be a good 500m / 1km on the ground. depending on the buildings, hills, etc
[23:00] <cyclops> Guys
[23:00] <cyclops> To power the arduino board on flught
[23:00] <M6PFX-1> fsphil: sorry it was when setting it up on the breadboard like the arduino example on site
[23:00] <cyclops> What dhould I use?
[23:00] <cyclops> *should
[23:00] <fsphil> M6PFX-1: it should still be pretty good if you just have a wire handing of the RF output
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[23:01] <fsphil> in my tests I was able to receive it down the street
[23:01] <daveake> \\A really long mains lead
[23:01] <fsphil> wind power (not too daft, except for floaters)
[23:02] <M6PFX-1> fsphil: hmm i wanted to try out the example on the site so purchased a module but using the simple blinking LED test its not transmitting a tone. i will keep looking at what i've done wrong
[23:03] <fsphil> M6PFX-1: the ntx2 should always transmit a tone if it's powered up, and the EN pin is raised (wired to the ntx2's vcc)
[23:03] <fsphil> well not a tone, a carrier
[23:03] <daveake> this ^^
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[23:03] <daveake> It's useful first test before messing about sending signals to it
[23:04] <fsphil> what receiver do you have?
[23:05] <M6PFX-1> i am using my ft857d
[23:05] <fsphil> nice radio
[23:05] <fsphil> in USB mode?
[23:05] <M6PFX-1> yep
[23:05] <G0TDJ_Steve> Seconded
[23:05] <M6PFX-1> i was tracking chris' balloon today fine, i got the module which is 434.650 from hab supplies
[23:06] <fsphil> only other comment I have is to tune around a bit. you only have 2.8khz of bandwidth, and the signal probably won't be on exactly 434.650
[23:06] <fsphil> it'll be +/- that by about 10khz
[23:06] <M6PFX-1> so to just get a carrier, i need to put + to VCC and EN, and the V0 to ground
[23:07] <fsphil> yep yep
[23:07] <M6PFX-1> and 3,3v is ok direct
[23:07] <fsphil> that'll cause it to transmit it's lowest frequency
[23:07] <fsphil> yes
[23:07] <M6PFX-1> ok
[23:07] <fsphil> 3.3v is its minimum
[23:08] <fsphil> regulates it to 3v internally I think
[23:08] <daveake> 2.8 IIRC
[23:08] <fsphil> yes that's right
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[23:13] <M6PFX-1> right i got a tone
[23:13] <M6PFX-1> sweet atleast i know it works
[23:13] <M6PFX-1> thank you fsphil
[23:14] <gonzo__> name that tune
[23:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> BBC Testcard
[23:15] <gonzo__> all sing along. hmmmmmmmmmm
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[23:18] <cyclops> One question, its advised the use of a buzzer to locate the payload?
[23:20] <daveake> I don't bother
[23:20] <cyclops> why?
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[23:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'd like mine to send out a Morse ident
[23:21] <mattbrejza> craag: no hurry, im probably not gonna do anything with it for a week or so anyway
[23:21] <daveake> Because buzzer tones are too high in pitch to get a direction on
[23:21] <cyclops> The fact is that I dont have a handheld radio, so if I have to search for the payload in the middle of a olive tree forest I have to carri the macbook
[23:21] <cyclops> *carry
[23:21] <daveake> Make it click or something
[23:22] <cyclops> Click?
[23:22] <daveake> Right, in that case my strong advice is to buy such a radio
[23:22] <cyclops> No money
[23:22] <cyclops> :/
[23:22] <daveake> Wrong hobby then
[23:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> daveake: Would one of those BaoFengs be any good. I know it's only FM but you'd get a carrier
[23:22] <daveake> Seriously, you can buy a receiver for £100 on ebay, use it, then sell it for the same
[23:23] <daveake> Actually I've made a profit on all the ones I've sold
[23:23] <cyclops> Can you link anyone?
[23:23] <craag> mattbrejza: Ok, I'll have a go at it over the weekend.
[23:23] <craag> gn all
[23:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> Seeya Philip
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[23:28] <gonzo__> just about any hoddy is the wrong one, without money. With a few exeptions
[23:28] <gonzo__> but they make you blind
[23:28] <M6PFX> so it wasn't working for me before due to the 4.7k resistor being connected between TXD and GND. i remove that and it transmits. i had it setup identically to the guide on the site. hmm
[23:28] <cyclops> and which type of radio is advised for a handheld?
[23:28] <cyclops> To search for one
[23:28] <gonzo__> any that will do SSB
[23:29] <gonzo__> if you are really cash strapped, the RTL dongle and habamp. (Think that was prob suggested?)
[23:30] <cyclops> Well I allready have the funcube dongle
[23:30] <cyclops> So that might work?
[23:30] <fsphil> M6PFX: a resistor between txd and gnd won't have any effect, if that's the only thing added to the basic circuit
[23:30] <gonzo__> you don't need to take the laptop into forrests etc. Only get near enough to get some telemerty
[23:30] <fsphil> TXD is internally pulled down by a 100k resistor
[23:30] <cyclops> What do you suggest then
[23:31] <cyclops> Well the forest are of olive trees, so 2-3 meters high
[23:31] <M6PFX> sorry it was the one between TXD and +
[23:31] <fsphil> M6PFX: okie. that will change its output frequency
[23:31] <fsphil> you probably just shifted outside your radios bandpass
[23:31] <gonzo__> ah, cyclops you have most of what you need. For final DFing, an FM handheld/scanner would work. You just listen for the quietest signal (rather than the rush of static when there is no signal there0
[23:31] <fsphil> and would need to retune higher
[23:32] <M6PFX> ok
[23:32] <fsphil> for doing rtty, we use very tiny voltage changes
[23:32] <cyclops> FM handheld radio?
[23:33] <cyclops> The fack is that ive allready spent nearly 800¬ so little money left :P
[23:33] <gonzo__> cyclops, even the cheapest scanner would work for that. as long as it covres the 434 band. Actually, you don't want one that is too sensitive.
[23:33] <fsphil> radio should have been the first thing cyclops :)
[23:33] <cyclops> Funcube
[23:35] <cyclops> Well just saying, if I pickup the funcube and the computer i can still locate the payload
[23:35] <gonzo__> cyclops, yep any FM RX would work. This is just for the last 100mtrs. You won't be able to do any rtty decoding on FM, but you can hear the rx go quiet when you are beaming at the balloon (with a directional antenna) or just getting close (with a helical/whip)
[23:35] <cyclops> Just that Ill have to carry the equipment
[23:36] <gonzo__> get close to the landing area. use the FCD and laptop to pick up and decode the telem. That will give you an actual gps location. Then home in using a little FM rx.
[23:37] <M6PFX> fsphil: thanks for the pointers, i have it all working now and decoding the beacon text fine. heart attack over :)
[23:37] <cyclops> Can you point me to any link to see what im looking for?
[23:37] <gonzo__> Though I have found that just getting the telemetry of the actual landing point is enough. Then a hendheld GPS (on my phone) and just walk around till the lat/lon matches
[23:37] <fsphil> lol np M6PFX. it's nice to see data decoding
[23:38] <gonzo__> have found balloons in the pitch black dark that way
[23:38] <cyclops> Then i wont worry much
[23:38] Action: fsphil is watching a thunderstorm on http://www.blitzortung.org/Webpages/index.php?lang=en&subpage_0=12 -- slowly heading my way
[23:38] <cyclops> Im glad that here i probably wont have problems with the balloon in top of a tree
[23:38] <gonzo__> that is a common prob in the UK
[23:39] <fsphil> yea trees are not fun
[23:39] <cyclops> if trees are all arround like: http://www.dondeviajar.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/olivos1.jpg
[23:39] <cyclops> Thats the forest
[23:39] <cyclops> All arround andalucia, the most common
[23:40] <gonzo__> such a wrench to chase a hab, find it's location only to have to walk away becaus eit's in a tree,
[23:40] <daveake> <gonzo__> Though I have found that just getting the telemetry of the actual landing point is enough. Then a hendheld GPS (on my phone) and just walk around till the lat/lon matches
[23:40] <daveake> That's what I do
[23:40] <daveake> Once you have that landing position it's all easy*
[23:41] <daveake> *barring trees, rivers, ditches, nettles, angry farmers ...
[23:41] <daveake> cows
[23:41] <gonzo__> we found the one that came from south wales to sailsbury that way. we had a gps match and were looking at the tree line looking for a reflection off the torch. Then realised it was right in front of us within 6ft
[23:41] <daveake> 2m high maize
[23:41] <daveake> I walked into one payload
[23:42] <gonzo__> tx on floor, foil balloons at chest height
[23:42] <daveake> Couldn't see it at all
[23:42] <gonzo__> anghy cows!
[23:42] <cyclops> daveake: main radio is bought
[23:42] <cyclops> So ill follow your recommendations
[23:42] <cyclops> and gonzo__ '2
[23:42] <cyclops> *'s
[23:43] <daveake> I *much* prefer a real radio for chasing, however you can chase with what you have
[23:43] <cyclops> So ive allready spent a lot of money on this hobby
[23:43] <cyclops> Considering im at school
[23:43] <cyclops> So no salary
[23:44] <daveake> I understand; I'm just saying you would have (in my opinion) been better off spending £100-ish on a suitable scanner rather than more than that on a FCD
[23:44] <gonzo__> you can usually get the signal at a reasonable range. Thay may mean you can leave the laptop in the car and go out on foot with the handheld gps
[23:45] <daveake> Yes, I've always managed that
[23:45] <daveake> I wouldn't want to go hiking with a laptop if you can't get close enough
[23:45] <gonzo__> easier in the UK where there is little area between roads
[23:46] <cyclops> Ah for the car i bought a 50cm Antenna will that be enough?
[23:46] <cyclops> this one http://www.astroradio.com/113211.html
[23:46] <mfa298_> 50cm antenna should be fine if its designed for 70cms band
[23:47] <gonzo__> that one looks fine
[23:47] <gonzo__> is your FCD a new pro+ ?
[23:47] <cyclops> yes it is
[23:47] <gonzo__> good. Probably get away without an extra preamp
[23:47] <cyclops> Works really well
[23:47] <cyclops> Oh daveake
[23:48] <cyclops> I tested the camera interfereces on GPS 1575Mhz
[23:48] <gonzo__> saw one of the prototypes last year. Was really impressed. So brought one. (well another one!)
[23:48] <cyclops> measured with the funcube and yes it was emiting noise
[23:48] <mfa298_> and I'd agree with daveake and gonzo, once you've got telemetry from the balloon on the ground (be close enough as it comes down to recieve data) you'll have lat/long to put into a gps (just make sure you know how to use it)
[23:48] <gonzo__> useful test
[23:48] <cyclops> Shielded with 2 layers of ali and all gone
[23:48] <gonzo__> well done
[23:49] <cyclops> :D
[23:49] <cyclops> I think Im gonna have the best "pre university" project of my school
[23:49] <cyclops> So many solutions to find
[23:50] <cyclops> Ah and just in case the cameras will be shielded in a box 5m away from tracker as daveake suggested
[23:50] <gonzo__> if you do not have any internet/3g coverage in the landing zone, you shoudl make sure you have maps. And ones marked with lat/lon
[23:51] <cyclops> I think ill have
[23:51] <daveake> I don't think I said "5m"
[23:51] <cyclops> But ill bring just in case
[23:51] <daveake> Unless I meant "5 miles" :p
[23:51] <gonzo__> you feel so lost when you know the balloon is 'oer there somewhere' but your phone/laptop maps won't update
[23:51] <cyclops> oh sorry then daveake
[23:51] <cyclops> Then someone told me
[23:51] <daveake> Nah 5 metres should be fine :)
[23:51] <cyclops> Perfect :D
[23:52] <gonzo__> gn all.
[23:52] <cyclops> Im glad you guys advised me before putting cameras on the payload
[23:52] <cyclops> If not
[23:52] <cyclops> Who knows what could have happen
[23:53] <mfa298_> also make sure phone/laptop etc are properly charged and you can keep them charged. Running out of battery at the landing site is annoying
[23:53] <cyclops> inverter for the car
[23:56] <cyclops> And mobilephone charger
[23:56] <mfa298_> just as long as you remember to take them.
[23:57] <fsphil> hehe
[23:57] Action: fsphil forgot to bring the payload once...
[23:57] Action: mfa298_ realises he's up late again on a wednesday night, although no traipsing through fields with angry cows with week.
[23:58] <mfa298_> s/with/this/
[23:58] <fsphil> I really should be asleep but hoping this storm arrives soon
[23:58] <fsphil> gonna regret it when the alarm goes off
[23:58] <cyclops> Well guys thanks a lot for the help and imput
[23:58] <cyclops> Ill follow your recommendations
[23:58] <cyclops> Good night!
[23:58] <fsphil> nite!
[00:00] --- Thu Jul 25 2013