highaltitude.log.20130723

[00:08] <Willdude123> This is really quite an interesting piece of kit.
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[05:56] <arko> KT5TK_QRL: you around?
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[05:58] <jcoxon> morning all
[06:03] <x-f> morning
[06:08] <arko> good morning
[06:09] <jcoxon> hehe am doing ISS APRS testing
[06:09] <jcoxon> but managed to have it switch to the wrong freq for the pass
[06:09] <jcoxon> so no packets digipeated :-(
[06:10] <arko> awwww
[06:10] <arko> that sucks!
[06:14] <jcoxon> yeah, i can switch between freqs
[06:14] <jcoxon> but its blind
[06:14] <jcoxon> so it must have gone out of sync
[06:14] <jcoxon> going to need to fix that
[06:15] <arko> whats the hardware?
[06:15] <jcoxon> so its a uv5-r radio
[06:16] <jcoxon> controlled by an arduino
[06:17] <jcoxon> i'm quite pleased with the design
[06:17] <jcoxon> it can predict the position of hte ISS and then tx aprs to it
[06:17] <jcoxon> and in between passes it tx's local aprs (hence needing to change freq_
[06:17] <jcoxon> )
[06:18] <arko> nice!
[06:18] <jcoxon> arko, you'd be ideal to test this...
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[06:19] <jcoxon> as you could actually fly aprs that could work inland (i'd have to wait till out to see to use this)
[06:19] <arko> i would?
[06:19] <jcoxon> sea*
[06:19] <arko> send me anything and I'll fly it!
[06:19] <arko> :)
[06:22] <jcoxon> well i'll get it actually working first
[06:22] <jcoxon> but yeah
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[06:23] <arko> :)
[06:24] <arko> or make instructions and I'll build one here :)
[06:24] <arko> then again
[06:24] <arko> i actually have a hab with that exact hardware
[06:24] <arko> arduino+uv5r
[06:24] <arko> it was the RDF beacon on habex2
[06:24] <arko> good times
[06:26] <jcoxon> oh
[06:26] <jcoxon> then its easy as
[06:26] <jcoxon> i'll make build instructions!
[06:26] <jcoxon> how is the arduino connected to the uv5-r?
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[06:31] <arko> i2c i believe
[06:31] <arko> this was half a year ago now :P
[06:31] <arko> or something like that
[06:31] <arko> i think another pin for keying
[06:32] <arko> i'll look at it later tomorrow
[06:37] <jcoxon> cool
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[07:05] <jcoxon> grrr didn't work
[07:06] <fsphil> with the rubber duck antenna?
[07:06] <jcoxon> colinear still
[07:06] <jcoxon> but its worked with my ft817 in a simlar configuration
[07:06] <jcoxon> perhaps its something to do with my packet
[07:07] <jcoxon> APRS,ARISS,WIDE2-1,qAR,M1GEO:!/4K)4NLh*O /A=-00068|$+|8386/283/12
[07:07] <jcoxon> (thats a locally digipeated packet that was meant for hte ISS
[07:07] <jcoxon> )
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[07:09] <fsphil> been a while since I did it, but that looks ok
[07:09] <fsphil> I don't think i had WIDE*
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[07:33] <Darkside> hey jcoxon
[07:33] <Darkside> you made the WIA news
[07:34] <jcoxon> i did?
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[07:36] <jcoxon> haha
[07:36] <jcoxon> found it
[07:36] <jcoxon> i guess thats off southgatearc originally
[07:40] <arko> KT5TK_QRL:
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[08:35] <Pog_> hi,, anyone interested in taking a unique payload.. 800 grams includes a gopro3
[08:36] <fsphil> what's unique about it?
[08:36] <Pog_> r u in Australia?
[08:36] <fsphil> not at the moment
[08:37] <Pog_> has some sensors etc..
[08:38] <daveake> ok but what's unique about it?
[08:39] <Pog_> will get to that when i see the reality of someone sending up a kit in the next 3 weeks. from Australia pref.
[08:40] <Babs> punchy
[08:40] <Pog_> lol
[08:40] <Pog_> naah.. just hoping to snag an Aussie wanting a hand with costs etc
[08:40] <fsphil> where abouts in australia are you?
[08:40] <daveake> Oz is a big place
[08:40] <Pog_> Albury..
[08:41] <Pog_> will travel anywhere
[08:41] <Babs> Its the HAB equivalent of one of those shuttle-launch-in-the-dark-military-launch-things
[08:41] <Babs> only with a Gopro3
[08:41] <daveake> Not the best choice IMO
[08:42] <fsphil> there are many launches done from Adelade
[08:42] <fsphil> but they'll charge you :)
[08:43] <fsphil> I spelled that wrong
[08:43] <fsphil> Adelaide
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[08:45] <Babs> fsphil - Just to flag it, I'm expecting something special when it comes to you travelling over for the conference http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2007/07/balloons_450x350.jpg
[08:45] <mfa298_> sounds like some impressive sensors if they're unique.
[08:46] <fsphil> Babs: Easyhab
[08:46] <Babs> snigger
[08:47] <fsphil> oxygen costs extra
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[08:48] <pog_> lost my nets..
[08:48] <Babs> Easyboarding would be an experience.
[08:48] <Babs> sorry, speedyboarding
[08:48] <Babs> you can tell i have never speedyboarded in my life
[08:49] <pog_> so any Aussies interested in carting 800 grams?
[08:50] <fsphil> pog_: talk to these guys, http://projecthorus.org/
[08:50] <pog_> yar.. have an email into them.. just waiting for reply.. only 24 hrs
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[09:06] <LazyLeopard> Heh. Spam from RS offering "free next-working-day delivery". Kinda comic given I cancelled the last order I placed with them because they were so slow dispatching it... ;)
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[09:07] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[09:08] <Darkside> pog_: yo
[09:08] <Darkside> pog_: whats going on?
[09:08] <Darkside> pog_: ill contact terry
[09:08] <pog_> cool.
[09:09] <Darkside> whats the payload?
[09:09] <pog_> a gopro 3 with some stuff .. lol
[09:09] <Darkside> some stuff
[09:09] <Darkside> >_>
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[09:10] <pog_> r u on email? i really rather put it too the crew who would fly it..
[09:10] <pog_> r u in the horus crew?
[09:10] <Darkside> yep
[09:10] <pog_> cool.
[09:10] <Darkside> i build all the payloads
[09:10] <Darkside> wll, the trackers anyway
[09:10] <pog_> well ur the right guy then,
[09:10] <pog_> yep.
[09:10] <Darkside> jack?
[09:10] <pog_> i am gopro 3 housed + 630 grams..
[09:10] <pog_> yep..
[09:10] <Darkside> yep
[09:10] <Darkside> thats him
[09:11] <Darkside> ok
[09:11] <pog_> so send me an email and i will explain what i am after
[09:11] <Darkside> vk5qi@wia.org.au
[09:11] <pog_> ok..
[09:11] <pog_> will send.. r u Adelaide?
[09:11] <Darkside> yup
[09:12] <pog_> any plans for a flight soonish?
[09:13] <Darkside> uhmm
[09:13] <Darkside> heh
[09:13] <Darkside> depends
[09:13] <Darkside> the problem atm is the bad weather
[09:13] <Darkside> raining, constantly overcast
[09:13] <pog_> i hear ya.
[09:14] <pog_> i am in Albury
[09:14] <pog_> we get ur crap 12 hious later
[09:14] <pog_> will email.. jumping off here.
[09:14] <Darkside> sure
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[09:22] <cyclops> morning!
[09:22] <fsphil> morn
[09:22] <cyclops> Antennas just arrived :D
[09:24] <fsphil> what all did you get?
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[09:26] <Steve_2E0VET> Has anyone tracked commercial weather ballons - is it possible
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[09:26] <cyclops> Well Only balloon, upu's tracker, helium and parachute left
[09:27] <mattbrejza> btw cyclops you need to be careful that your cameras dont degrade the gps performance
[09:27] <Steve_2E0VET> What size balloon are you getting
[09:27] <fsphil> Steve_2E0VET: yea the met sondes can be decoded, search for Sonde Monitor
[09:27] <cyclops> ive been told that mattbrejza and upus said he added something to correct that
[09:27] <Lunar_LanderU> craag: are you at the keyboard?
[09:27] <gonzo__> there are loads of people chasing the met sondes and trying to recover them
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[09:28] <gonzo__> not may here, most are too busy with their own
[09:28] <gonzo__> many
[09:28] <mattbrejza> even so, you need to check
[09:28] <fsphil> I keep meaning to track the local ones. the winds should be carrying them towards me
[09:28] <fsphil> wouldn't mind getting one
[09:28] <mattbrejza> didnt realise he was putting on a LNA/SAW thing though (assuming thats what he is doing)
[09:28] <Steve_2E0VET> I presume it can be done with the regular equipment
[09:29] <mattbrejza> fsphil: set up an hourly for the metoffice site
[09:29] <fsphil> you need a radio that can do FM on 402mhz
[09:29] <gonzo__> do they still need the gps data post processing on the ground?
[09:29] <fsphil> mattbrejza: ah ha
[09:30] <Steve_2E0VET> FM not SSB ?
[09:30] <mattbrejza> indeed
[09:30] <fsphil> yea
[09:30] <fsphil> the met sondes have more RF power than we do
[09:31] <x-f> 60 mW, afaik
[09:31] <x-f> but 2400 bps
[09:31] <Lunar_LanderU> one short question, the radio guys we met at the landing of our balloon did propose to install a FM TX on our balloon as that is OK in germany
[09:31] <Steve_2E0VET> I will check what my radio goes down to.
[09:31] <Lunar_LanderU> would that still work with dl-fldigi?
[09:31] <fsphil> Lunar_LanderU: why?
[09:31] <Lunar_LanderU> well they didn't like that the NTX2 drifts so much
[09:31] <cyclops> in that case mattbrejza how can I shield them so they dont cause any problem?
[09:31] <Lunar_LanderU> that was what they were saying
[09:31] <fsphil> insulation Lunar_LanderU
[09:32] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[09:32] <fsphil> the drift isn't an issue anymore
[09:32] <mattbrejza> Al foil should do the trick
[09:32] <LazyLeopard> .
[09:32] <fsphil> FM on 10mw is just not going to work well at all
[09:32] <LazyLeopard> oops
[09:32] <Steve_2E0VET> Are the radiosonde on eBay any good, thinking of trying one for a madien/test flight
[09:32] <mattbrejza> as you have bare boards, while a gopro has lots of metal everywhere id gue4ss theyre more liekly to interfere
[09:32] <UpuWork> no use Steve_2E0VET
[09:32] <fsphil> you can't legally fly one Steve_2E0VET
[09:32] <fsphil> need a license to transmit on 402mhz
[09:33] <gonzo__> if you wanted fm as a way of encouraging non ssb capable stations to listen, it should be possible to generate AFSK rtty too. (could do that every so many packets)
[09:33] <mattbrejza> also if theyve been used i think some turn the power right down after theyve detected landing (so ive been told)
[09:33] <Steve_2E0VET> Are ok thanks
[09:33] <gonzo__> the box and line winder from a sonde may be useable?
[09:34] <cyclops> so foil everywhere
[09:34] <fsphil> they have a little chute that might be useful too
[09:34] <gonzo__> I reused the winder and cheut on the latex BONZO
[09:35] <gonzo__> quita a big chute, 2'6" ?
[09:35] <Lunar_LanderU> is there any chance to extract the sensors from a Vaisala RS-92 or so?
[09:35] <gonzo__> descent was slower than expected. Meant we didn't ditch in water.
[09:35] <mattbrejza> well not everywhere, perhaps just a layer sitting ontop of the cameras, with the gps atennna at the top of the box
[09:35] <Lunar_LanderU> I am still keen about their THERMOCAP wire thermometer
[09:35] <mattbrejza> ull ahve to make sure you test it well
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[09:36] <gonzo__> would prob be less work to start afresh with sensors
[09:36] <fsphil> I'm sure you could Lunar_LanderU. would need calibrated
[09:36] <gonzo__> got given a new RS80 at the weekend. Even the bit of punch tape with the cal values on
[09:36] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[09:37] <Lunar_LanderU> my prof said capacitive thermometry is "a barrel without bottom"
[09:37] <gonzo__> you would not have to cal it in the air. Just send the raw adc value down and do the cal on the ground
[09:37] <Lunar_LanderU> due to the difficulties in making a proper amplifier and so on
[09:38] <cyclops> ok mattbrejza
[09:38] <cyclops> thatks
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[09:47] <fsphil> won't be chasing them this week anyway: http://predict.habhub.org/hourly/castorbay/
[09:48] <fsphil> I love that the predictor is using data generated from the sonde it's predicting
[09:49] <mattbrejza> good time to launch for us, would be special if we missed land http://predict.habhub.org/hourly/susf/
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[09:50] <cyclops> how can you make hourly predictions?
[09:50] <mattbrejza> ask in #habhub
[09:51] <cyclops> ok!
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[09:58] <x-f> heh, susf is not cusf, thought it was a typo for the first time
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[09:59] <mattbrejza> yea, why change a naming convention
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[10:05] <Steve_2E0VET> Has anyone done any charity launches
[10:05] <fsphil> there have been a few
[10:05] <daveake> there have been many
[10:06] <fsphil> many*
[10:06] <daveake> :)
[10:06] <Babs> Payloads are frequently given away to the North Sea
[10:06] <fsphil> Davey Jones Charity
[10:06] <Steve_2E0VET> Looking for ideas of what the charities can charge for other than guess the height
[10:06] <fsphil> I launched a Pudsey bear, though oddly not for charity
[10:06] Action: mfa298_ feels sorry for the atlantic, it doesn't get so many payloads.
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[10:07] <fsphil> Steve_2E0VET: many auction off an object flown
[10:07] <fsphil> or auction the space to fly something
[10:08] <fsphil> mfa298_: it's trying to get mine at the moment
[10:08] <mfa298_> you could probably do guess the lowest temperature fairly easily.
[10:08] <jcoxon> space port
[10:08] <fsphil> I'm not letting it
[10:08] <Steve_2E0VET> That's ok as long as you recover the object lol
[10:08] <jcoxon> aparently tastes better in blind tests
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[10:08] <fsphil> makes you go blind?
[10:08] <jcoxon> eventually
[10:09] <mfa298_> the trick is to do the flight when the predictions show it landing well inland.
[10:09] <mfa298_> (unless it's Lohan)
[10:09] <daveake> grrr
[10:09] <fsphil> yay atlantic http://hourly.sanslogic.co.uk/
[10:09] <daveake> Those predictions weren't even close to reality
[10:10] <fsphil> nope
[10:11] <mattbrejza> were the predictions very changable that day?
[10:11] <daveake> Yes
[10:11] <daveake> Real problem was the mt office didn't launch any balloons that day
[10:11] <mattbrejza> so it was probably only out by a few hours
[10:11] <daveake> Yes that's basically what happened
[10:12] <daveake> which is why these days I look at the hourly very closely
[10:12] <UpuWork> the weather due late afternoon arrived about 6 hours early
[10:13] <mattbrejza> do the met office have their balloon data online?
[10:13] <mattbrejza> so you can verify the predictons fopr the day?
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[10:30] <rogerponts> Hi, Which material could be used to make the directors, reflectors... of an antenna ?
[10:31] <Darkside> preferably somethign conductive
[10:32] <rogerponts> Yes, but what type of metal ?
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[10:32] <Darkside> aluminium tube works well
[10:32] <Darkside> 8mm or 10mm diameter
[10:34] <rogerponts> hollowed? It's easy to find it ?
[10:35] <Darkside> yeah
[10:35] <Darkside> 10mm is pretty common
[10:35] <Darkside> 8mm not so much
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[10:44] <rogerponts> How many directors would you recommend me ?
[10:44] <Darkside> 5 elements is about normal
[10:44] <Darkside> so reflector, driven, and 3 directors
[10:46] <rogerponts> ok
[10:52] <Jonathan_G4KLX> I like these: http://www.wa5vjb.com/yagi-pdf/cheapyagi.pdf
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[11:08] <chrisstubbsW> cyclops: are you still thinking of using that 808 cam style thing?
[11:08] <cyclops> 808?
[11:09] <Darkside> the little black cameras
[11:09] <Darkside> cheap
[11:09] <cyclops> oh yea ill be using them
[11:09] <Darkside> be careful
[11:09] <Darkside> they make great GPS jammers
[11:09] <cyclops> Ive been told
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[11:10] lbm (~lbm@mufasa.lbm.dk) got lost in the net-split.
[11:10] KriZtoV (~KriZtoV@puck1118.server4you.de) got lost in the net-split.
[11:10] schoppenhauer (~quassel@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer) got lost in the net-split.
[11:10] UpuWork (~UpuWork@2a02:b80:12:1:8918:4070:a922:2cc3) got lost in the net-split.
[11:10] <Darkside> cool
[11:10] <cyclops> But also that with little foil
[11:10] <cyclops> the problem can be solved
[11:10] <chrisstubbsW> Yep
[11:10] <chrisstubbsW> even if you test it and it works perfect ont he ground, it can still destroy your gps in the air
[11:10] <chrisstubbsW> as i found out
[11:11] <mattbrejza> if it takes longer to get lock on the ground when the cameras are on then the problem still isnt solved
[11:11] <chrisstubbsW> use cannons or gopros instead
[11:11] <chrisstubbsW> :)
[11:11] <Darkside> the image quality from those cameras is crap anyway
[11:11] <Darkside> so yeah, gopros are awesome
[11:12] <mattbrejza> or put them in a different box
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[11:12] <cyclops> different box
[11:12] <cyclops> that could be done
[11:13] <cyclops> how far from gps?
[11:13] <PB0NER> I arranged some bare solar cells.....
[11:13] <mattbrejza> dunno, a few meters
[11:13] <mattbrejza> just test it
[11:13] <daveake> As I keep reminding him, UpuWork put one on the outside of one of my payloads, and the GPS stayed working on the ground but never worked in the air
[11:14] <cyclops> what about a separate box, with the inside of foil
[11:14] <chrisstubbsW> cyclops: keep it far far away. or just use a canon
[11:15] <chrisstubbsW> the quality of the video from those cameras is so bad its hardly even worth keeping
[11:15] <cyclops> The cannon I was going to use cant be hacked
[11:15] <chrisstubbsW> :(
[11:15] <chrisstubbsW> well, thats not to say you cant have a 555 trigger the shutter every few seconds
[11:15] <daveake> You can get a hackable Canon for £30 on ebay
[11:16] <daveake> sometimes £20 or less
[11:16] <chrisstubbsW> I'm going to have a play with CHDK tonight, not really done anything past the basic timer loop script
[11:16] <gonzo__> I put a pulse every 10 sec on one of the IO pins of my tracker
[11:16] <gonzo__> interfacing ton the shutter button of a cam is poss more difficult
[11:17] <cyclops> Any recommended one?
[11:17] <gonzo__> as they may niot be a simple deck the line type interface
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[11:17] <gonzo__> could be muxed with other cam buttons
[11:17] <daveake> A56-,480,490,495
[11:17] <chrisstubbsW> a530 works but a bit old and low res now
[11:17] <mattbrejza> ixus ones too
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[11:18] <cyclops> and which interference does the cameras create and why?
[11:18] <daveake> I don't think resolution matters that much
[11:18] <daveake> clouds being fluffy
[11:19] <daveake> and there's usually enough mist to soften the ground
[11:19] <PB0NER> I have a Canon A580.... I think the CCD is broken as it puts out pink lines.... or might that be a loose connection?
[11:19] <gonzo__> pink, should let dave fly it!
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[11:20] <daveake> :)
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[11:21] <cyclops> But if these cameras are intended to use as aeromodelism
[11:21] <cyclops> recorders why do they case such interferences?
[11:21] <daveake> They're intended to be cheap
[11:21] <PB0NER> are thery really intended for that?
[11:22] <cyclops> I think so
[11:22] <mattbrejza> cyclops: i dont think youre using the same cameras as the 808 ones, but they could potentially have the same issue
[11:22] <daveake> You know where things have a CE label? Stands for "Chinese Export". They don't bother doing EMC tests.
[11:22] <PB0NER> cheap is nice, but sometimes it is hard to get good stuff nowadays
[11:22] <SpeedEvil> It is quite legal to do your own CE label.
[11:22] <daveake> It is
[11:22] <SpeedEvil> It is the responsibility of the importer to verify it.
[11:23] <SpeedEvil> In principle all of the UK ebay sellers selling 'fake' CE kit are up for jailtime.
[11:23] <SpeedEvil> (If the kit is in fact not CE compliant)
[11:23] <cyclops> and to power the camera?
[11:23] <PB0NER> I've done some CE tests and it is a laugh
[11:23] <Steve_2E0VET> Any tips on either building a 70cms yagi or where I can buy a cheap one for direction finding
[11:24] <gonzo__> moonraker
[11:24] <gonzo__> if you can get hold of an arrow antenna, they atre nice but not cheap
[11:24] <cyclops> and daveake at which altitude did the GPS failed?
[11:25] <daveake> As soon as it left the table it was on
[11:25] <cyclops> so i coud try to see if it happens with my cammera
[11:25] <gonzo__> plenty of designs for simple yagi. A wooden boom with some ali rods pushed through works well
[11:25] <cyclops> which one where you using?
[11:26] <gonzo__> if you have (or can borrow) an rx that will cover 1542MHz, you could test for interference to gsm
[11:26] <gonzo__> gps
[11:27] <mattbrejza> 1575mhz?
[11:27] <mattbrejza> 1542 is close enough though
[11:27] <gonzo__> probably, yes. 1542 sounds a bit low (innmarsat downlinks)
[11:28] <mattbrejza> i have tried this before with stuff that was jamming and i couldnt hear anything
[11:28] <gonzo__> 1575.42?
[11:28] <mattbrejza> better off with a dongle really
[11:28] <mattbrejza> yep
[11:28] <PB0NER> a analog sat tuner might show stuff... on a tele
[11:28] <gonzo__> yes that's true
[11:28] <gonzo__> needs to be quite sensitive really
[11:29] <PB0NER> indeed rtl dongle will do
[11:29] <mattbrejza> the dongle waterfall is more useful than just listening to a narrow ssb channel
[11:29] <cyclops> and how can i measure interference
[11:29] <cyclops> With the fun cube?
[11:29] <Steve_2E0VET> Has the balloonhelium.co.UK shutdown. Haven't been able to access for a couple of days
[11:30] <Steve_2E0VET> Just when I wanted to buy some
[11:30] <gonzo__> use a small rx antenna (1" of wire?) and bring the can towards it,. and look for increased noise
[11:30] <PB0NER> they ran out of helium?
[11:30] <gonzo__> not calibrated, but will give some idea
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[11:31] <cyclops> well the camera im using mattbrejza is this http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-RD32-HD-Digital-Sports-video-Camera-HD-720p-20-Meter-Waterproof-DVR-Cam-DV-/300762680479?pt=Camcorders_Professional_Video_Cameras&hash=item4606da4c9f
[11:31] <PB0NER> I agree... if 10mW has a 500km+range....
[11:31] <cyclops> only that without enclousre
[11:31] <PB0NER> local signals are allways strong.
[11:32] <mattbrejza> yea tahts not a 808, but still might have the same issues
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[11:34] <cyclops> And would just covering it with foil and in a separate box work?
[11:34] <mattbrejza> well if its a few m away then it should be fine, but test it
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[11:35] <cyclops> 5M is ok?
[11:35] <cyclops> and it interferes 1575mhz?
[11:37] <PB0NER> remember RF energy travels over powelines ...... decouple those with c's
[11:37] <PB0NER> or chokes
[11:37] <mattbrejza> yea 5m seems fine
[11:38] <mattbrejza> and if you line with Al foil that should stop most of it anyway
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[11:39] <cyclops> i hope so
[11:40] <cyclops> Im reading and it seems this new version generates some noise but not tht much
[11:40] <cyclops> the problem is the 1080p
[11:40] <cyclops> also, if it "hurts" 433mhz i wont receive from the balloon¿
[11:41] <mattbrejza> it doesnt matter about 434 as youre only txing
[11:42] <cyclops> good to know as i have 2 of these cameras on hand
[11:42] <cyclops> so only matters the 1575mhz
[11:42] <mattbrejza> ya
[11:43] <cyclops> yes it sais it can intherfere with UHF band
[11:43] <cyclops> *says
[11:43] <cyclops> On a video, not hobbyking
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[11:44] <ibanezmatt13> Good afternoon :)
[11:45] <cyclops> and to ground it recommend to solder the aluminum foil to the camera
[11:45] <cyclops> hi ibanezmatt13
[11:45] <ibanezmatt13> hi :)
[11:45] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[11:46] <cyclops> and mattbrejza i think that to test I could put the camera on top of the gps and see how it works
[11:48] <cyclops> Copper tape better than aluminum Im reading
[11:49] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: Would those wires be ok to post?
[11:49] <daveake> Ali is fine. Ali and distance.
[11:50] <cyclops> daveake: the camera Upu used how far was from gps?
[11:50] <daveake> I don't know exactly, but nore more than 200mm
[11:51] <cyclops> oh
[11:51] <cyclops> so 5m would make a difference
[11:51] <cyclops> great an ant just entered into my keyboard
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[11:52] <cyclops> so ill shield it with both ali and copper to be sure :P
[11:54] <ibanezmatt13> Managed to get my Arduino up and running. First project: I chopped the USB connector of a Wii nunchuck and interfaced with it using i2c. Got the potentiometer inside to control 2 servos and the buttons controlled the playing of different sounds. Neat little project :)
[11:55] <Steve_2E0VET> Are there any applications or websites that allow GPS data to be transmitted to, just so I can do some GPS tracking testing
[11:56] <mattbrejza> http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/ ?
[11:56] <SpeedEvil> nsa.gov
[11:56] <Steve_2E0VET> Cheers Matt
[11:56] <Babs> ibanezmatt13 - I'm doing a similar thing with an IMU. Question: what is an i2c?
[11:56] <Babs> i keep on seeing it mentioned
[11:57] <ibanezmatt13> inter-intergrated circuit I think
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[11:57] <mattbrejza> i2c = eww
[11:57] <ibanezmatt13> It uses two lines, an SCL (clock line for timing) and SDA (data line)
[11:57] <SpeedEvil> I2C is a common seril bys
[11:57] <ibanezmatt13> So devices have an address and you can talk to various devices using addresses with only two lines.
[11:58] <ibanezmatt13> Babs: http://www.robot-electronics.co.uk/acatalog/I2C_Tutorial.html That's a good site
[12:01] <Babs> thanks - this is end of August's project, getting my IMU to work three servos to keep a camera level.
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[12:02] <Babs> and pointing in the right direction
[12:02] <ibanezmatt13> sounds good :)
[12:02] <Babs> talking of which http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23419543
[12:02] <Babs> they are probably using 3 arduinos or something ;-)
[12:02] <Babs> after all, it is a little further away
[12:02] <ibanezmatt13> Just a little :)
[12:04] <ibanezmatt13> Babs: When I was looking at the Wii Nunchuck, it had an accelerometer inside which was very sensitive to tilt. Perhaps you could have a 3 axis accelerometer that uses i2c to give readings to say an Arduino and then control some motors based on that/?
[12:04] <ibanezmatt13> Just a thought :)
[12:04] <ibanezmatt13> I've never heard of an IMU so I'm not sure whether that's possible or not
[12:05] <Babs> So my set up is IMU http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1269 running this https://github.com/mikeshub/Pololu_Open_IMU
[12:06] <Jonathan_G4KLX> We used Wii nunchucks at Uni for the second year project, it was used for information on the attitude of a flying "thing". We used bluetooth to interface to it.
[12:06] <ibanezmatt13> Sounds good Jonathan_G4KLX
[12:06] <Babs> I've got it linked up to an Uno and pushing out yaw, pitch and roll. THe Uno is dedicated because I took one look at the code and figured it will slow everything down unless I have a dedicated processor for it
[12:06] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right
[12:07] <Babs> This then outputs via software serial to another arduino which drives the servos
[12:07] <ibanezmatt13> That sounds like a good setup
[12:07] <x-f> Babs, there were one around the same time from the Mercury's side too - http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2013-229
[12:07] <Babs> I got it working well driving the three servos but am yet to link all of the servos together so they move together
[12:07] <Babs> and I now have to get married which unfortunately will curtail everything for the next month
[12:08] <ibanezmatt13> Maybe you could use one of those servo driver ICs?
[12:08] <Babs> I mean "I'm really looking forward to putting the project on hold for a month etc."
[12:08] <Babs> ibanzematt13 - this is the issue
[12:08] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[12:08] <fsphil> you're safe here Babs
[12:08] <Babs> I understand the software serial route of inputting the data and driving the servos
[12:09] <ibanezmatt13> Ah ok
[12:09] <Babs> but i don't know whether I am storing up a problem by not using some of the more funky terms i see flying around like "i2c"
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[12:09] <ibanezmatt13> Several people seem to not like i2c for some reason
[12:10] <Babs> The IMU arduino just punts out the co-ordinates and the other arduino just picks them up, all I am unsure about is
[12:10] <ibanezmatt13> I'm interested in this IMU thing. What are you using as an IMU?
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[12:10] <Babs> whether it is storing up problems for the future (for example, are they getting buffered up somewhere because I am not doing the "do you have any co-ordinates", "yes I have some coordinates", "can you send me the coordinates" type of communication
[12:11] <Babs> (I love my technical speak)
[12:11] <Babs> that people on here seem to do
[12:11] <ibanezmatt13> haha, :)
[12:11] <Babs> This thing ibanezmatt13 http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1269/resources
[12:11] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks
[12:12] <Babs> its got an altimeter on too
[12:12] <ibanezmatt13> Looks like a nice little board, the altimeter makes it even better. I'll have a look into that. Thanks :)
[12:12] <Babs> fsphil - #highaltitude is my respite from all things wedding
[12:12] <Babs> ibanezmatt13 - I think they are all much of a muchness
[12:13] <Babs> the key is the software that drives them and the potential for errors over time
[12:13] <Babs> the maths is pretty complex in practice, although the theory is easier if you understand integration
[12:13] <ibanezmatt13> I understand integration a little so I could be ok :)
[12:13] <Babs> but i figured if an altimeter was on board what was the problem?
[12:14] <Babs> plus unique and secret sensors are very much in vogue here today
[12:15] <Babs> I'm saying nothing else in public and without a confidentiality agreement being signed
[12:15] <ibanezmatt13> yeah. So how do you use that IMU with the Arduino? Serial did you say?
[12:15] <Babs> yes, I don't have a photo, but basically it has a header strip that you solder to it
[12:15] <ibanezmatt13> Ah it says I2C
[12:16] <ibanezmatt13> Sounds good
[12:16] <Babs> use some jumpers to connect it to the arduino
[12:16] <Babs> load a program into the arduino to calibrate it and off you go
[12:16] <Babs> the calibration is key
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[12:16] <Babs> and i haven't yet had the time yet to work out quite how affected it is by local conditions
[12:17] <Babs> ie it works in my living room, but if i take it to the office will i have to calibrate it again etc.
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[12:17] <ibanezmatt13> Why do you have to recalibrate it? What does the callibration do
[12:18] <Babs> it basically gives it a standard set of values that it knows are horizontal and vertical etc.
[12:18] <ibanezmatt13> Ah ok I see
[12:18] <Babs> look on it like when they do wheel tracking for your steering wheel for your car. Make sure the wheels are straight when the steering wheel is horizontal etc.
[12:19] <ibanezmatt13> Ah yes, makes sense
[12:19] <Babs> the Wii does a similar thing i think based on when i have used it before for wii bowling etc.
[12:19] <ibanezmatt13> So when you call for the information, does it respond with all the information in one go, i.e, is the device under one address or do you have to call to each component on the board in turn (probably a stupid question)
[12:21] <ibanezmatt13> Babs: Gonna have to go, my Dad wants his laptop back. Thanks for the informaiton
[12:21] <Babs> No worries.
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[12:21] <daveake> each chip will have its own address
[12:21] <daveake> too late
[12:22] <Steve_2E0VET> Is there anything like GPS visualizer that allows coordinates to be up loaded realtime to display track on map, just like aprs.fi or spacenear.us
[12:24] <Babs> daveake - am i storing up problems having the IMU and arduino just spit out values whenever it can, and then having another arduino receiving (ie checking the serial interface) of those co-ordinates at a potentially different rate?
[12:25] <daveake> Sounds like it to me
[12:25] <Babs> does the receiving arduino just stack up all received values one by one like checking cars in a traffic jam?
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[12:25] <daveake> All I've done is log the data from an IMU. Not done any maths yet. The maths will need the timing to be right
[12:25] <Babs> or does it do the equivalent of looking out of a window and seeing whether a car is going past?
[12:26] <Babs> the maths in terms of getting yaw, pitch and roll is all solved. its the timing of communicating from one arduino to another that i am querying (if that helps)
[12:26] <Jonathan_G4KLX> Arduino's do have *some* buffering.
[12:26] <daveake> Well I'd be uneasy that your data is delayed by a random amount by the other Arduino
[12:28] <Babs> hmmm, i guess i could run the arduino IMU program with it just updating its variables as frequently as it wants but not spitting it out, and then get the master arduino to ask for the latest variable when it is good and ready.
[12:29] <Babs> in electronics speak i think this must just sound like trying to deal with a Phillipino call centre
[12:29] <Jonathan_G4KLX> Would it not make sense to swap one Arduino for a RPi which has more processing power?
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[12:31] <Babs> Jonathan_G4KLX - i'm very much a beginner. I think my aim is to get it working, and then try and refine it to make it more suitable/tailored to the task in hand.
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[12:32] <Babs> which might then involve looking at different processors
[12:32] <fsphil> looks like XABEN was found
[12:33] <fsphil> up a tree
[12:33] <fsphil> evil things
[12:33] <Jonathan_G4KLX> I love the Arduino, especially for real-time work, but the extra power of an RPi could be useful for handling lots of processing. I think the RPi has either SPI or I2C built-in. I wonder if anyone has got an RPi to drive an NTX2 for the downlink.
[12:33] <Darkside> haha
[12:34] <Darkside> i think that might have happened just a few times
[12:34] <fsphil> Jonathan_G4KLX: yes
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[12:34] <fsphil> there have been a few RPi flights
[12:34] <Darkside> quite a few
[12:35] <fsphil> it's very easy to drive the NTX2 from the Pi's uart
[12:35] <fsphil> not so easy to use a GPIO and software timing
[12:35] <fsphil> linux gets in the way
[12:35] <fsphil> but I'm sure it could be done as a kernel module
[12:35] <PB0NER> I have build a python library for handling SPI and I2C on the Pi
[12:36] <Babs> one last question : does an interrupt stop a program in its tracks and run a subroutine before returning to the original program, or does it continue to run the original program in parallel with the interrupt
[12:36] <Babs> ?
[12:36] <fsphil> interrpts
[12:36] <fsphil> interrupts*
[12:36] <fsphil> the name is accurate :)
[12:36] <Jonathan_G4KLX> The interrupt stops the main program, so code in the interrupt routine should be as short as possible.
[12:36] <Penfold> ..and as non0destructive to its environment as possible
[12:37] <gonzo__> also you have to be aware that the execution could happen at any time, even within operations on a single line
[12:37] <fsphil> it could interrupt at any point. even during an operation like updating a variable larger than 8 bits
[12:37] <gonzo__> snap phil!
[12:37] <fsphil> nice
[12:38] <gonzo__> great minds....
[12:38] <mattbrejza> and during PORTD &= ~(1<<4); etc
[12:38] <gonzo__> (or sheep... bahhh)
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[12:39] <Laurenceb> http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Triune-Systems/TS52001-MQFNR/?qs=EumP11lMQtMVhVxbsj2Ldw==
[12:40] <Laurenceb> very nice
[12:40] <Babs> fsphil - if the variable is updating, does it corrupt the variable in the meantime? so any reading of it would be total nonsense?
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[12:40] <mattbrejza> it wouldnt mess up the operation
[12:40] <mattbrejza> the issue is if the interrupt then uses that variable
[12:41] <Jonathan_G4KLX> You can disable interrupts, but be careful. You need a mutex when sharing a variable.
[12:43] <Babs> mattbrejza - thats what I mean. the program is updating yaw, but has only partially updated it when the interrupt comes in asking for the yaw variable. does it then return nonsense potentially?
[12:43] <mattbrejza> yep
[12:43] <mattbrejza> also the calcuation for yaw is gonna be much more than one line
[12:43] <gonzo__> imagine sonethuing like reading a 16bit value, such as a buffer pointer. Then the same pointer is being updated within interrupt, when characters are coming into rs232 and being written to the buffer. You could read the first 8 bits from the pointer, and an interruot comes in. Your processor willgo and handle the interruot, in this case put the rs232 character in the buffer and uopdate the pointer. Now when you come back and read the second half of the
[12:43] <gonzo__> pointer in the main program, you have a 16bit value made up of two different parts. so is in effect corruopt
[12:44] <gonzo__> wow, long line!
[12:44] <Jonathan_G4KLX> The trick is to use a ring buffer, so that the two routines aren't accessing the same data at the same time. It works a treat.
[12:44] <Jonathan_G4KLX> That's what I do professionally.
[12:44] <gonzo__> ditto
[12:44] <Babs> i'll go away and read about it, thanks guys
[12:45] <gonzo__> but babs needs the reasoning behind it first.
[12:45] <gonzo__> interrupts are easy really. But you do have to keep your wits about you
[12:46] <Babs> i might just run the standard way i am doing it now first. if seemed to work for all the 10 mins i was able to test it for...
[12:46] <Babs> but thanks again
[12:48] <gonzo__> if you can fins some skeleton code with the inrterruopts already working, say on a timer and rs232, that makes it so much easier.
[12:49] <gonzo__> I find that the hardest part of the job is getting all the setup correct for interrupts, signal routings, timer options etc.
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[12:50] <gonzo__> that done the coding is easy
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[12:56] <Laurenceb> http://www.b3tards.com/u/dceb14b0c0ee9d13b69a/kate-lizard-baby.jpg
[12:59] <Jonathan_G4KLX> gonzo__: I reckon the RPi could probably do 75 baud on a GPIO pin at user level.
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:59] <Laurenceb> http://www.b3ta.com/board/10985157
[12:59] <fsphil> not reliably
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> Jonathan_G4KLX: It can be done with DMA, perfectly accurately.
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> http://pythonhosted.org/RPIO/pwm_py.html
[13:00] <gonzo__> I've never used an OS in embedded systems. So i couldn't comment Jonathan_G4KLX
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> I think even with the examples given - you might be able to do it through python without further C hackery
[13:01] <Jonathan_G4KLX> SpeedEvil: I've not done DMA on a Pi, thanks for the link. I'd be using C or C++ though.
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> But the basic idea is really simple - you setup a bitmap - setup the DMA unit, and blit it out.
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> This works for driving LCDs even.
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> graphical LCDs.
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[13:05] <cyclops> mattbrejza: just a silly question the camera box 5m on top or under the GPS?
[13:06] <Darkside> under
[13:06] <cyclops> thats what I thought
[13:06] <cyclops> but wasnt sure
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[13:34] <Babs> On the subject of transferring variables between two arduinos, this looks like a neat off the shelf solution http://www.billporter.info/2011/05/30/easytransfer-arduino-library/
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[13:46] <Steve_2E0VET> Any advice where to get helium other than boc
[13:47] <daveake> The two main suppliers are BOC and Air Products. It's cheaper to get helium through an online party balloon supplier than it is if you open an account with them
[13:47] <daveake> AP gas seems hard to get these days
[13:47] <daveake> try balloonhealium.co.uk for BOC gas
[13:48] <Steve_2E0VET> That website hasn't worked for a couple of days
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[13:49] <fsphil> balloonhelium are cheaper for getting the cylinder directly, but they charge more for monthly rental than BOC
[13:49] <Laurenceb> http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ZMDI/ZSPM4523AA1W/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtOXy69nW9rMxrNmh6FsmgJQtiiA5XqGMo%3d
[13:49] <daveake> yes that's a problem if you never use it :p
[13:49] <chrisstubbsW> AP only gave matt 7 day rental!
[13:50] <chrisstubbsW> he called up and played the charity story and they extended it a bit
[13:50] <daveake> :)
[13:50] <chrisstubbsW> going to empty it into some picos this week :)
[13:51] <Steve_2E0VET> God knows what size cylinder I need
[13:51] <daveake> He may do, but we're probably more accessible
[13:53] <Steve_2E0VET> His website's always down as qell
[13:53] <daveake> 404
[13:53] <Steve_2E0VET> That's the one
[13:56] <daveake> Have you played with the burst calculator? That'll give you an idea of the volume
[13:56] <daveake> For most flights a medium ("T") cylinder is enough. 3.6m^3
[14:05] <Steve_2E0VET> Is the burst calc value the same measurement as the cylinders cone in
[14:05] <fsphil> yea
[14:05] <fsphil> metres cubed
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[14:25] <cyclops> Steve_2E0VET: did you ended up building your own tracker?
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[14:27] <Steve_2E0VET> Sort of got the ntx2 from ero and using an ardunio board
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[14:28] <cyclops> Nice
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[14:29] <Steve_2E0VET> Haven't done any programming yet only ordered the board yesterday lol got the gpa module as well
[14:32] <cyclops> as you know ill go with the Habduino
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[14:42] <Steve_2E0VET> I've looked at so many I'm confused
[14:45] <fsphil> the *duino naming scheme is annoying
[14:46] <PB0NER> Off... for a vizit to revspace
[14:46] <fsphil> enjoy!
[14:46] <PB0NER> yeah, those guy's did the last balloon overhere
[14:46] <PB0NER> (and the one before)
[14:47] <PB0NER> first meet with BBQ!
[14:48] <fsphil> there are some thunderstorms heading your way, hope you don't get wet :)
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[14:51] <mfa298_> sounds like a typical English BBQ. Rain and thunder :D
[14:52] <x-f> +30C is over?
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[14:55] <PB0NER> BBQ + thunder.... that is why I go by car
[14:55] <PB0NER> (and not on a pushbike) ... clouds are forming indeed
[14:56] <fsphil> drive-through bbq
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[15:11] <gonzo__> would singe the tyres phil
[15:12] <nigelvh> Morning crew.
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[15:35] <Lunar_LanderU> hi nigel
[15:38] <nigelvh> How's life?
[15:43] <Lunar_LanderU> good, thanks and with you?
[15:44] <chrisstubbs> Credit to BT, their new system holds your place in the queue when you call them and rings you back when someone is availible :)
[15:46] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[15:46] <Lunar_LanderU> here in germany it is now law, as far as I know, that waiting queues must be for free, even if the number is a service line
[15:48] <gonzo__> that would ber very welcome
[15:48] <gonzo__> it's bad eniough being on hold for half an hour, and to know you are having to pay for it too!
[15:49] <SpeedEvil> gonzo__: It's even worse that many benefit claim and enquiry numbers are 0845.
[15:49] <SpeedEvil> And there aren't free or local equivalents.
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[15:51] <chrisstubbs> I wish they would just ditch 0845 numbers, they are a waste of space
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[15:52] <mfa298_> the worst bit is when you have to call your phone company from a mobile on a 0845 (or similar) when your landline has died
[15:56] <iain_G4SGX> Yay, my serial reader is getting 5 NMEA strings every second or so out the MAX6. I didn't blow it up when soldering it after all..phew.
[15:57] <fsphil> always a good sign
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[15:59] <iain_G4SGX> Yep, no lock but thats to be expected indoors i spose. Never get an indoors lock from my lappy GPS either. Probably need an active antenna.
[15:59] <Willdude123> Hi
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[16:01] <iain_G4SGX> howdy WIll
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[16:35] Nick change: [1]chrisstubbs -> chrisstubbs
[16:36] <cm13g09> hey chrisstubbs
[16:37] <chrisstubbs> hi cm13g09
[16:37] <cm13g09> picked a day yet?
[16:37] <craag> Lunar_LanderU: pong. (long trip time :P)
[16:37] <Lunar_LanderU> ah :)
[16:37] <Lunar_LanderU> we found out that something must have shorted in the circuit
[16:38] <Lunar_LanderU> as the 12 V battery just gets warm and the output is at the limit
[16:38] <craag> :O
[16:38] <craag> 12V battery getting warm isn't a good sign
[16:38] <craag> Did you fix it?
[16:38] <cm13g09> nothing up today is there?
[16:39] <craag> Evening cm13g09
[16:39] <cm13g09> hey craag
[16:39] <chrisstubbs> cm13g09, wednesday looks like the least rain
[16:39] <cm13g09> okie dokes
[16:39] <cm13g09> that's good for me
[16:39] <cm13g09> will try and do some armchair tracking
[16:40] <cm13g09> and maybe come out to the next launch
[16:40] <chrisstubbs> awesomee
[16:40] <chrisstubbs> yeahwill try and go again this weekend
[16:40] <cm13g09> ah
[16:40] <cm13g09> I'm away this weekend
[16:40] <cm13g09> in fact, most weekends :P
[16:40] <chrisstubbs> maybe friday?
[16:40] <cm13g09> I'm off to Birmingham Friday
[16:40] <cm13g09> (for the weekend)
[16:41] <cm13g09> don't move your flights because of me ;)
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[16:45] <Lunar_LanderU> craag: not yet, did some work for the B.Sc. thesis today
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[16:45] <Lunar_LanderU> will check it the next days
[16:45] <craag> Cool.
[16:45] Action: craag has been playing with solar panels
[16:46] <craag> slightly larger than hab-scale though.
[16:47] <cm13g09> lol
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[16:49] <Lunar_LanderU> cool
[16:50] <SpeedEvil> craag: you're just not ambitious enough.
[16:51] <craag> Yeah I guess not, although I'd have to join the "5kg limit on the cusf calc isn't enough!!!" club.
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[16:51] <Lunar_LanderU> XD
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[16:55] <mfa298_> I thought the 5kg on cusf isn't enough brigade worked in lbs as well. You might have to give up metric to join them :p
[16:55] <nigelvh> Come to the dark side
[16:55] <cm13g09> mfa298_: PM please - I have a few o/t questions
[16:55] <craag> Yep, no way that's happening.
[16:56] <nigelvh> You know it makes waaay more sense then metric. Yes, count by twelves in one instance and 16s in another!
[16:56] <nigelvh> You know you want to.
[16:57] <craag> Solar radiation in KWh/sq.ft has caused me enough pain already.
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[16:57] <nigelvh> Yes. Let the hate boil inside you. Soon you will be one of us.
[16:58] <craag> You're not going to make me a budge an inch!
[16:58] <craag> oh no
[16:58] <craag> it's happening...!
[16:58] <Lunar_LanderU> be back later
[16:58] <daveake> lol
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[16:59] <nigelvh> Join the Imperial Empire!!!!
[16:59] <daveake> I can't fathom why you haven't changed
[17:02] <mfa298_> he's still in the chains of metric
[17:02] <nigelvh> Those chains are weakening. Soon enough he will join us.
[17:02] <craag> and I have been furlong time
[17:04] <craag> It's in a different league, far from my perch
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[17:04] <cm13g09> welcome back chrisstubbs
[17:05] <cm13g09> craag: STOP IT
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> You're just making a rod for your own back.
[17:05] <cm13g09> lol
[17:05] <cm13g09> true
[17:05] <cm13g09> I am just as bad sometimes
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[17:06] <nigelvh> Those stones will soon be too heavy to carry.
[17:06] <SpeedEvil> Someone should shut the barn door.
[17:06] <SpeedEvil> It was a bad idea anyway - a door that small.
[17:06] <chrisstubbs> Sorry had to reset the homehub in order to beat the bt technical support man into giving me a new one
[17:07] <cm13g09> lol, no worries chrisstubbs
[17:07] <cm13g09> they're stubborn like that, aren't they!
[17:07] <chrisstubbs> Yeah
[17:07] <chrisstubbs> got there in the end
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[17:08] <cm13g09> lol - I like our broadband support people
[17:08] <craag> stubborn as a rod
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[17:08] <craag> at least they're only a cable away
[17:09] <cm13g09> I ring them up "Yeah, I've got no service, and the modem won't sync with the phone line. Keeps going Full Initial, then back to Ready."
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[17:09] <cm13g09> "Oh, is the modem a DrayTek by any chance?" "Yep" "Ah ok, yeah, we'll get that looked at for you"
[17:10] <chrisstubbs> can you please press the http "semicolon" // for me mr stubbs
[17:10] <chrisstubbs> no wonder it didnt bloody work...
[17:10] <cm13g09> lol
[17:10] <chrisstubbs> oh well back to HAB
[17:10] <chrisstubbs> Need to stick a flight mode check in my main loop
[17:11] Action: craag starts writing a patch for the cusf calc to give He volume in scruples
[17:11] <nigelvh> There you go.
[17:12] <nigelvh> Yard feet is another good measure.
[17:13] <cm13g09> nigelvh: Nothing is as good as heights of double decker buses..... Olympic-sized swimming pools.....
[17:13] <nigelvh> Because people can't imaginate.
[17:13] <x-f> football fields..
[17:14] <nigelvh> UHMEHRIKAN FOOTBALL FIELDS!!!!
[17:14] <daveake> Define "football" :)
[17:14] <cm13g09> especially when they say that the new leisure facility that's going to get built has a swimming pool that's the length of a two double decker buses....
[17:14] <cm13g09> that's one I heard last year
[17:14] <craag> daveake: easy, a sport where the ball barely ever touches the foot :)
[17:15] <daveake> makes perfect sense
[17:15] <daveake> what's a "world series"? :p
[17:15] <craag> Where everywhere that the americans have heard of compete :)
[17:15] <craag> :P
[17:15] <nigelvh> A competition to see who can run in circles the most.
[17:16] <craag> hehe, or who can dress up the best to throw the opening pitch
[17:16] <nigelvh> Because pop stars should obviously be baseball players.
[17:17] <craag> (Bill Nye wins that for his bow tie)
[17:17] <nigelvh> Bill Nye wins anyway.
[17:17] <craag> always
[17:17] <craag> by many leagues
[17:17] <nigelvh> Also NdGT
[17:18] <craag> hehe, barely heard of the guy before I found reddit
[17:18] <nigelvh> NdGT is kick ass.
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[17:56] <Laurenceb> http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/09/01/71_1314909873877.html
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[18:01] <Survivor> Hey guys.. I was looking for possibilities to reduce the weight of my HAB, like removing un-necessary stuff.. I have to concentrate to take aerial pictures, and retreive the HAB. I have a tracker installed. Any suggestions on how to reduce the weight?
[18:02] <Willdude123> Well.
[18:03] Boggle (~jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:04] daveake (~Dave@daveake.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:04] <mfa298_> choice of tracker and choice of camera can help you reduce the weight.
[18:04] <Willdude123> Survivor: What microcontroller/computer are you planning on?
[18:05] <Willdude123> If you use a raspberry pi, you could take photos and use it as the tracker.
[18:05] <Willdude123> Anyway I best shut up as I'll get slaughtered if I try and give any more advice.
[18:06] <Survivor> Willdude123 : Its a theoritical project.. so I am not actually building anything..
[18:06] <Willdude123> Ah OK
[18:06] <Willdude123> Well, are you experienced in electronics/microcontrollers?
[18:07] <Willdude123> If you are you might want to build the tracker on a PCB.
[18:08] <Survivor> I was thinking.. I can simply put a mobile phone in the basket, and track its location from the ground (via a tablet or something)
[18:08] <Willdude123> Well.
[18:08] <Willdude123> This is a slightly bad idea.
[18:08] <Survivor> please elaborate
[18:08] <Willdude123> What if it lands where there's no phone coverage?
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[18:09] <mfa298_> Mobiles wont get a signal over a couple of km. also a log of gps modules stope below 18km
[18:09] <Survivor> well, its a theoritical project.. I am not actually flying it.. I just have to find out possible ways of doing things
[18:09] <nigelvh> Also phones don't have coverage all the way up.
[18:09] <Willdude123> This *might work* but most people prefer to build radio trackers.
[18:09] <Survivor> ahh I see
[18:09] <Willdude123> And if you use a radio tracker you can see where it is the whole way up.
[18:10] <Willdude123> Not just when it lands.
[18:10] <Survivor> suggestions for radio tracker?
[18:10] <Willdude123> Build one.
[18:10] <Survivor> I dont have to build anything.. this is a simple theoritical project
[18:11] <Willdude123> Oh OK, so are you not going to do it?
[18:11] <Survivor> i just have to say.. THIS IS ONE WAY ... THIS CAN BE DONE.. BLAH BLAH...
[18:11] <Survivor> no building involved..
[18:11] <Willdude123> Why?
[18:11] <mfa298_> Depending on where you are radio trackers tend to either use APRS or ISM band trasmitters. The choice being partly down to what you can use legally where you are.
[18:11] <Survivor> I am in the UK
[18:11] <Willdude123> So why do you have to say that?
[18:12] <Survivor> Willdude123 : coz in my project, I only have to do a thesis.. I dont have to build it..
[18:12] <Willdude123> Ah right.
[18:12] <Willdude123> Is this for some degree or something?
[18:12] <Survivor> yea
[18:12] <Willdude123> It would help you understand how it works, if you actually do one.
[18:12] <Willdude123> Nice, what degree?
[18:12] <Survivor> I know.. I asked my professor for permission to build one.. but she said NO.. -_-
[18:12] <mfa298_> So for UK you're choices are, GSM (bad as above), SPOT tracker, or making (even if theoretical) a radio based tracker using the ISM band (this is what most UK people do)
[18:12] <Survivor> MSc aerospace
[18:13] <Willdude123> Survivor: She can't stop you.
[18:13] <Survivor> Willdude123: she is the one who will mark me.. and she said it is not necessary for me to build one..
[18:13] <Willdude123> It would really help you to build one.
[18:13] <Willdude123> Even if it's worth no marks.
[18:13] <Jonathan_G4KLX> Which Uni?
[18:14] <Survivor> Manchester
[18:14] <Willdude123> It would help you understand how it works.
[18:14] <Survivor> alright.. I will ask again..
[18:14] <Jonathan_G4KLX> Look at the UKHAS Wiki for a lot of good stuff: http://ukhas.org.uk
[18:14] <Willdude123> I'm sure some people on here could talk to her about it.
[18:14] <Survivor> nevertheless... any suggestions to reduce the overall weight of the balloon?
[18:14] <Willdude123> Well.
[18:15] <Willdude123> Designing or using reasonably light trackers.
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[18:16] <Survivor> I was also thinking.. I can buy a cheap phone, and remove all its unwanted components, and just use the camera. This would reduce the overall weight.. do you think it will work?
[18:16] <Randomskk_> not really
[18:17] <Randomskk_> removing other components is probably just going to break the phone and not seriously likely to reduce weight
[18:17] <mfa298_> I think you'll struggle removing much from a phone to leave just a camera.
[18:17] <Randomskk_> a keychain camra from ebay is a handful of grams, and a ightweight homebuilt radio tracker can be like 30g
[18:17] <Survivor> I can remove unwanted stuff from a regular camera as well
[18:17] <Randomskk_> whole payload inclduing video and batteries etc might be as low as 50 or 100g
[18:17] <Randomskk_> not sure what kind of low weight you're shooting for
[18:18] <Willdude123> Seems a bit silly to make you do a purely theoretical thesis on this.
[18:18] <Willdude123> How many words?
[18:18] <Survivor> 15K
[18:18] <Randomskk_> but I mean, also, we're not here to do your thesis, you should probably be able to think of feasible ways to pull this off
[18:18] Nick change: MichaelC -> MichaelC|Away
[18:18] <Randomskk_> chopping up a phone isn't the best option by a long shot
[18:19] <mfa298_> Survivor: you probably want to consider if you want stills or video and then chose a suitable device. For stills remember you won't be there to hit the button so you need something that can be programmed to automatically take pictures
[18:19] <Randomskk_> you can probabl think of reasons why. and then write about them
[18:20] <Jonathan_G4KLX> 15K words isn't a lot. I had to leave loads out of my MSc dissertation (it's a thesis for a PhD).
[18:20] <Willdude123> Survivor: Finding 15k words for it will be a hell of a lot easier if you have actually built and flown a HAB
[18:20] <mfa298_> reading the ukhas.org.uk wiki and looking at peoples blogs linked to from there and the mailing list will give lots of ideas of what people have done in the past
[18:22] <Willdude123> There is a hell of a lot to write about.
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[18:22] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[18:22] <daveake> I can't see how asking for answers here is at all worthwhile. At least put the effort into reading up on past projects and analyse what they did right and what they did wrong.
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[18:23] <Willdude123> Survivor: If you google it, there are many blogs about HAB projects.
[18:24] <Willdude123> And even a few presentations dotted around.
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[18:31] <LazyLeopard> Xrick
[18:32] <LazyLeopard> oops...
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[18:37] <DL7AD> good afternoon
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[18:38] <Steve_2E0VET> Good evening
[18:39] <DL7AD> good evening
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[18:56] <Herman-PB0AHX> GA to all
[18:58] <DL7AD> hi
[19:03] <Willdude123> J'ai maintenant une copie de l'étranger en anglais et en français.
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[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> I have the strange feeling that the question "what is a theoretical HAB" had been asked here before
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[19:11] <iain_g4sgx> Well guys, my Max6 has locked succesfully, all thats left to do now is to code the UBX Rx & Rx and to tie it all together as the rest is done. One happy bunny. :)
[19:12] <arko> LeoBodnar: http://www.the90sbutton.com/
[19:13] <arko> talking about the 90's
[19:13] <arko> and all
[19:21] <Babs_> Nice horizon programme on bbc4 about high altitude photography
[19:22] <Babs_> On now
[19:22] <Babs_> Although they do have a jumbo jet to help
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[19:44] Nick change: Randomskk_ -> Randomskk
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[19:54] <cuddykid> evening
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[19:58] <jcoxon> evening all
[19:59] <Upu-> evening James
[20:00] Action: jcoxon is sitting on his balconey - nice and warm still
[20:01] Action: SpeedEvil is trying to get up the energy to put the grocery delivery away.
[20:01] <Upu-> I'm trying to get this DominoEX payload working
[20:01] <Upu-> something odd going on with GPS
[20:02] <jcoxon> hey SpeedEvil, i've just left mine by the door
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> I get a massive shop delivered once a month.
[20:03] <fsphil> it's a bit cooler here after the storms
[20:03] <mclane> upu: do you need to calibrate the dac to frequency shift relation over temperature / supply voltage to get decodable dominoex telegrams?
[20:03] <Upu-> don't think so
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[20:06] <jcoxon> fsphil, i'm going to have to go the optoisolator route
[20:06] <fsphil> still getting resets?
[20:06] <jcoxon> since i've switched to battery power the RF Is reseting the mcu
[20:06] <jcoxon> guess on usb power it was grounding everything
[20:06] <fsphil> I can't explain that at all
[20:07] <jcoxon> perhaps a self contained RF loop
[20:07] <mclane> upu : why not?
[20:07] <jcoxon> i've also gone from an Uno (5v) to a Fio (3.3v)
[20:07] <Willdude123> Hi Upu-
[20:08] <jcoxon> but the fio works fine if audio goes straight into the soundcard
[20:08] <Upu-> the response is very linear under my testing
[20:08] <fsphil> might be helpful to put the avr's power supply on a scope
[20:08] <fsphil> see if the voltage dips
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: Wierd
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: I recommend neutrino couplers. They're even more isolating.
[20:10] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> Oh dear.
[20:10] <mclane> upu : but what about the change of the response gradient with temperature (df/du might vary over temperature)?
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> I've just realised you could get _considerable_ speedup in new-york london comms if you use a neutrino beam comms system
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[20:11] <jcoxon> i'll try the optoisolators and see if that helps
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> Shave off hundreds of millisesconds
[20:11] <fsphil> probably easier :)
[20:11] <fsphil> and a little bit lighter
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[20:11] <fsphil> SpeedEvil: the bandwidth would be crap
[20:12] <SpeedEvil> dunno.
[20:12] <Babs__> If you were trading stocks though, you could actually make some money
[20:13] <Babs__> They are placing relays in the middle of the oceans now just to try and speed up some of the connection routes
[20:13] <Upu-> tbh no idea mclane
[20:13] <Upu-> I'll see what happens
[20:14] <fsphil> looking forwarded to a dominoex flight on a real balloon :)
[20:14] <bertrik> Babs__: I think I read about some new kind of hollow fiber that is supposed to be faster than a glass fiber
[20:14] <Upu-> something up with the µC TXD to ublox RXD
[20:14] <Upu-> commands aren't getting to it
[20:14] <Babs__> I guess that could be possible
[20:14] <Babs__> I'm just getting used to optical fibre broadband
[20:15] <bertrik> I meant faster as in lower latency
[20:15] <Babs__> For once I'm seeking out mega bandwidth streams to see whether I can cause it to jump
[20:15] <Babs__> Not succeeded yet, it's awesome
[20:15] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[20:16] <Babs__> Bertrik - I get it, all about speed of light through different materials I guess?
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> Babs__: yep
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> Babs__: metamaterial fibers can have velocities approaching C.
[20:17] <mclane> upu : different question: the ltc2606 is in a qfn package as far as I have seen in the datasheet - how do you connect it? do you have already a finished pcb?
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> Not 2/3C or 1/2C that conventional fibre is
[20:17] <Babs__> Achieving C is key
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> mclane: basically - yes.
[20:17] <Upu-> yes I do mclane
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> mclane: Getting PCBs made can be quite inexpensive.
[20:18] <Upu-> hang on
[20:18] <Babs__> Or if you are an Italian scientist, really really trying to prove >c is possible
[20:18] <Babs__> And failing
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> mclane: and soldering isn't too hard.
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> Italian politicians ar emore concerned with n>18
[20:18] <Upu-> http://i.imgur.com/YB8RUjC.jpg
[20:18] <Upu-> top one mclane
[20:20] <mclane> yea; the ltc is quite expensive (20 EUR) so I do not want to ruin too many of them until I succeed to solder
[20:20] <mclane> ;-) so I need to find another cheap qfn part for training purposes
[20:20] <mclane> upu: looks quire neat!
[20:21] <Upu-> mclane you can get samples from Linear
[20:21] <Upu-> shame it doesn't work :)
[20:22] <mclane> do they give them to private persons?
[20:22] <Willdude123> Upu-: have you heard of the Saleae logic analyzer?
[20:22] <Upu-> yes mclane
[20:22] <Upu-> yes Willdude123 been using one this evening to diagnose this issue
[20:22] <mclane> ok, then I will try ;-)
[20:23] Action: mfa298_ suspects Willdude123's next question has already been answered
[20:24] <Upu-> oh btw : http://i.imgur.com/PiJMXsC.jpg
[20:24] <Willdude123> Upu-: Got a student discount.
[20:25] <Willdude123> mfa298_: What were you expecting my question to be?
[20:25] <Upu-> they are very useful for debugging
[20:25] <mfa298_> Willdude123: something like "is it worth getting one" or "are they useful"
[20:25] <Willdude123> Of course they are.
[20:25] <Willdude123> I know they'll be useful.
[20:25] <mclane> upu : 2 receivers - for which purpose?
[20:26] <arko> Willdude123: they are so useful i carry a 16 channel onein my backpack at all times
[20:26] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/7fc0TVP.jpeg
[20:26] <Upu-> receiving 2 balloons at once :)
[20:26] <Upu-> technically 3 as I have the 817 as well
[20:26] <daveake> Only 1 817?
[20:26] <fsphil> hehe
[20:26] <Willdude123> mfa298_: I'm learning not to ask stupid questions. OK?
[20:26] <Upu-> yeah that one of Tim's was wrecked
[20:26] <daveake> ah
[20:26] <mclane> the grey box is a 3 dB splitter I assume?
[20:26] <Upu-> yeah
[20:26] <daveake> and how many TV tuners?
[20:27] <Upu-> oh lost count
[20:27] <Upu-> not enough antennas
[20:27] <fsphil> Tim broke something?
[20:27] <daveake> :)
[20:27] <daveake> shocking
[20:27] <Willdude123> Upu-: Did you see yesterday's PM?
[20:27] <Upu-> nope
[20:27] <mclane> and the grey box next to the funcube on the right is a habamp?
[20:28] <Upu-> it is yes
[20:28] <Willdude123> sometimes.
[20:28] <Willdude123> 16:49 <Willdude123> BTW, my GPS has stopped working.
[20:28] <Willdude123> 16:49 <Willdude123> It's never getting any lock.
[20:28] <Willdude123> 16:50 <Willdude123> After I come back from my holiday, I'm going to test the
[20:28] <Willdude123> continuity of the antenna( I will buy a multimeter when i
[20:28] <Willdude123> come back)
[20:28] <Willdude123> 16:50 <Willdude123> Is the antenna easy to replace?
[20:28] <Willdude123> 16:51 <Willdude123> And also do you have a warranty on stuff you give away for
[20:28] <Willdude123> free? :)
[20:28] <Upu-> cut and paste training needed
[20:28] <Willdude123> Failed
[20:28] <fsphil> smooth
[20:28] <Willdude123> I did /msg
[20:28] <Willdude123> I swear
[20:28] <Willdude123> I swear I did /msg
[20:28] <fsphil> which only works on one line
[20:28] Action: Upu- pats Willdude123
[20:29] Nick change: Upu -> UpuWork
[20:30] Nick change: Upu- -> Upu
[20:34] <iain_g4sgx> A similar question from me, is it normal for a max6 with a sarantel chip antenna on a windowsill to get lock then lose it for over half hour? Still waiting for lock again..
[20:34] <Upu> well
[20:34] <Upu> I get all sorts of wierdness with GPS modules sometimes
[20:34] <Upu> sometimes they take ages to lock
[20:34] <Upu> sometimes they lock within 30sec
[20:35] <Upu> make sure there is nothing touching the antenna (should have cap on it)
[20:35] <Upu> keep it away from the window frame
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[20:35] <Babs__> I found some issues getting signal under dense cloud
[20:35] <Babs__> Ie lock
[20:35] <Babs__> Tried it again next day in clear skies and was fine
[20:36] <Babs__> Just a though with them there storms that we are having at the moment
[20:36] <Babs__> *thought
[20:37] <iain_g4sgx> Cool, all adds up, still waiting for 100nF cap and dark clouds overhead.
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[20:38] <iain_g4sgx> Just worried about RF a I'm continously transmitting rtty also, will stop tx and see if different.
[20:39] <mclane> http://i.imgur.com/pPoHm0d.jpg - our next generation payload
[20:39] <Upu> dual TX?
[20:40] <mclane> yes 433 and 868 MHz
[20:41] <Upu> nice
[20:42] <mclane> the hole in the front is for a small uart jpg cam
[20:47] <mclane> http://i.imgur.com/9ekcArP.jpg - and this is the flight computer
[20:47] <craag> mclane: Is that a PA for 868?
[20:48] <mclane> what do you mean with PA?
[20:48] <craag> how much power are you running on 868?
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[20:51] <mclane> I am using an ARF module from ciseco
[20:51] <craag> I was about to celebrate being able to use my 868 habamp for tracking! but then whois-ed you..
[20:52] <craag> Looks like you might be launching a bit out of my range.
[20:52] <mclane> yea, I am located in southern Germany
[20:52] <fsphil> I must get one of those
[20:53] <craag> Are you using RTTY on 868?
[20:53] <mclane> yes
[20:54] <craag> :)
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[20:54] <Jonathan_G4KLX> Can we use 868 MHz in the UK?
[20:54] <craag> Jonathan_G4KLX: Yep, I've used it.
[20:55] <craag> Only had one other person track it though.
[20:55] <mclane> it is ISM like 434 MHz
[20:55] <craag> But worked great with 600 baud RTTY at 100mW
[20:56] <jcoxon> craag, is the duty a bit less on 868?
[20:56] <Jonathan_G4KLX> I have a FCD Pro so 868 MHz is a possibility for me to RX. Are we allowed higher powers also?
[20:56] <mclane> the TI cc1190 which is used in the module can provide up to 500 mW according to the datasheet
[20:56] <craag> That's the difficult bit, at a glance you have to use either 10% duty cycle, or listen-before-talk
[20:56] <mclane> which is the legal limit to my knowledge
[20:56] <craag> but it's actually more complicated than that.
[20:57] <Jonathan_G4KLX> So should be better than 434 MHz even taking into account increased LOS losses.
[20:57] <craag> Yep.
[20:57] <mikestir> 500mW is only legal in a small sub-band
[20:57] <jcoxon> Jonathan_G4KLX, few listeners
[20:57] <mikestir> 869.4 to 869.65
[20:57] <mclane> yes
[20:58] <craag> There were lots of people with SDRs, but no-one tried to rx it because 'SHARP Control' told everyone on irc it wasn't working.
[20:58] <craag> Apart from Rob, who used his 3m dish to rx it :)
[20:58] <Jonathan_G4KLX> I'd to 23cms EME with such a dish!
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[20:59] <craag> It worked well!
[21:00] <Jonathan_G4KLX> I'd hope so.
[21:00] <craag> Until the module cooled enough that it switched off (I'd left the ENABLE pin connected to the wrong arduino output...)
[21:00] <craag> So it was high-z
[21:01] <mikestir> Upu: did you say you'd tried out the RFM69W?
[21:01] <Jonathan_G4KLX> Is there a definition of the flags in the HAB download protocol anywhere?
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[21:01] <Upu> No mikestir though I have some if you want to try it
[21:01] <craag> But yes, the legalities of 868 rtty are a bit dodgy.
[21:01] <mikestir> I just ordered a couple. was waiting for quasar to get them in, but I gave in and got some from europe
[21:02] <craag> mclane: Are you using 10% duty cycle or lbt?
[21:02] <mikestir> since this launch I was building the tracker for has been postponed, I thought I might do a board rather than lashing it together
[21:02] <mclane> lbt
[21:03] <craag> Not sure I can justify a cross-channel trip just to give my habamp some use..
[21:03] <mikestir> Upu: so I might get some bare MAX6 modules off you in a couple of weeks
[21:03] <Upu> stick a comment on the order
[21:04] <Upu> I'll pop some RFM69W's in for you
[21:04] <mikestir> ok that would be great thanks
[21:04] <mclane> we have still some work to do
[21:06] <mikestir> craag: why do you think rtty on 868 is iffy?
[21:06] <mclane> so if we are lucky we will launch some time in August
[21:07] <craag> mikestir: I found a doc that suggested the max tx time inbetween listening is 1 second.
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[21:08] <mikestir> that's probably likely, but if you want for the 10% duty cycle instead then it should be ok
[21:08] <mikestir> IIRC the duty cycle is measured over an hour
[21:08] <craag> yep
[21:08] <mikestir> or rather, averaged over an hour
[21:09] <mattbrejza> the issue is after you apply 10% DC then you have no gain
[21:09] <mikestir> maybe good for a long-life floater with big signal but long periods of shutdown to save power
[21:09] <craag> But I wasn't sure whether it was a recommendation or a restriction, so I listened every 10s.
[21:10] <craag> The main issue is *far* more people have 70cm-only rx.
[21:10] <craag> SDRs are the minority
[21:10] <craag> and then people complain their antennas aren't tuned for it.
[21:10] <mikestir> well I have an ex-GSM yagi that works at 869 MHz so I'll give it a go if I'm around when you do another one
[21:11] <mattbrejza> the spectral efficiency of 500mW @ 869 vs 10mW @ 434 is only 4dB all in
[21:11] <mattbrejza> sorry 1dB
[21:12] <craag> mikestir: I still have fizzle sitting here, fixed and in a strung box just needing batteries, so may do a 100g hwoyee pico at some point.
[21:13] <Willdude123> My blog post on HAB http://willdover.co.uk/
[21:13] <craag> Maybe as a go with natural gas.
[21:13] <mclane> gn everybody
[21:13] <mikestir> mattbrejza: isn't it 11dB better? +27 vs +10dBm, but -6dB for the additional path loss?
[21:13] <craag> gn mclane !
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[21:13] <mattbrejza> 10%DC
[21:13] <mattbrejza> leads to 10dB 'loss'
[21:14] <chrisstubbs> Nice will :)
[21:14] <chrisstubbs> like the title lol
[21:14] <craag> Willdude123: Looking good!
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[21:16] <Willdude123> Thanks
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[21:16] <craag> You could post pictures to show people what's going on, eg pics of RTTY deciding in fldigi, or the beaglebone connected to the NTX2.
[21:16] <mattbrejza> further reading mikestir http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/300200_300299/30022001/02.04.01_40/en_30022001v020401o.pdf
[21:17] <Willdude123> Hmm
[21:17] <Willdude123> The theme manager doesn't seem to work-I can't edit the tagline.
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[21:20] <mikestir> mattbrejza: yes I've looked at that doc before. It certainly does imply a max 1s tx time for LBT craag
[21:21] <craag> yep :(
[21:22] <craag> And max 100s within an hour on the same 200khz.
[21:22] <mikestir> there's always 27 and 40 MHz
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[21:22] <mikestir> probably too much QRM though
[21:22] <craag> 27 matt and I thought would be good.
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[21:22] <mattbrejza> 40 has less BW?
[21:22] <craag> I've got a DDS doing RTTY on it, but never got round to building the PA.
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[21:23] <mikestir> 40 kHz
[21:23] <mattbrejza> yea somewhat less
[21:23] <mikestir> according to ir2030
[21:23] <mikestir> still plenty for rtty
[21:23] <mattbrejza> depends on your baud...
[21:25] <mattbrejza> im gonna record 24hrs of HF and make a big waterfall, see how bad it really is
[21:25] <Willdude123> Wow
[21:25] <Willdude123> Looking at my access log I can see referring URLS.
[21:26] <mattbrejza> hmm guessing i cant lock the 817 on highest gain...
[21:27] <craag> You can disable the AGC matt if that's what you're after?
[21:27] <craag> Did it on Mike's when LOHAN-hunting the other weekend.
[21:27] <mikestir> Willdude123: have you used google analytics?
[21:27] <Willdude123> No
[21:28] <craag> He's using wordpress, which has it's own pretty good analytics.
[21:28] <craag> And makes google analytics a pain to implement.
[21:28] spankee (1fb9f672@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.185.246.114) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[21:28] <mikestir> hosted wordpress? I've never seen any analytics in my wordpress install!
[21:29] <mattbrejza> craag: over the pc interface?
[21:29] <craag> mattbrejza: No idea :P
[21:29] <craag> Probably not
[21:29] <mattbrejza> whatever itll do
[21:29] <craag> Need a super-long pokey-stick!
[21:30] <mattbrejza> i wonder long itll take matlab to fft it all tomorrow mornign
[21:30] <craag> mikestir: Hosted has it set up. I think you have to install a lot of other garbage to get it to work on an install.
[21:30] <craag> I'm guessing Willdude123 has it on wordpress.com
[21:31] <mikestir> yeah because it doesn't have any as standard as far as I can tell. I used to use webalizer, but adding google analytics isn't that hard - you can just paste the code into the header template
[21:35] <Willdude123> craag: No I have it on Upu :)
[21:35] <craag> That's what I did when I did it, but it's annoying there isn't a nice plugin for it. Installed it for a month last summer and saw all the stats hit rock bottom, switched back to mediawiki :)
[21:36] <craag> Willdude123: Ah, the hosting of upu!
[21:36] <Willdude123> I need Upu
[21:36] <Willdude123> Without him, this would have failed.
[21:36] <Willdude123> Badum Chink
[21:40] <mfa298_> mattbrejza: just had a quick look at the 817 manual and it looks like settings via CAT are pretty limited :(
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[21:42] <Willdude123> Any good ads platforms for WP?
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[21:44] <mikestir> Well I incorporated the adsense code into the template in mine. Not sure if there are any plugins as it's kind of layout-dependent
[21:47] <Willdude123> Actually it'd be nice to have some hab related banners.
[21:47] <Willdude123> For HAB companies, if there are many.
[21:48] <Willdude123> Though I'll probably mention them anyway.
[21:52] <mattbrejza> o well...
[21:52] Laurenceb__ (~Laurence@host86-179-80-156.range86-179.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:53] <craag> mattbrejza: I could do it with the funcube here and send you a nice biiiig wav file.
[21:57] <Laurenceb__> LeoBodnar: ping
[21:57] <LeoBodnar> yo
[21:57] <Laurenceb__> i found a nice ic
[21:57] <Laurenceb__> just a sec
[21:57] <LeoBodnar> oO
[21:57] <LeoBodnar> :D
[21:57] <Laurenceb__> http://www.triunesystems.com/micro-solar
[21:58] <Laurenceb__> also on Farnell, but not in stock yet
[21:58] <Laurenceb__> it needs a 3v3 supply
[21:58] <Laurenceb__> and draws 3ma quiescent current when not shutdown
[21:58] <Laurenceb__> which makes it a little faffy
[21:58] <Laurenceb__> prob needs a dedicated LDO
[21:59] <Laurenceb__> then tie EN to the panel or something
[21:59] <LeoBodnar> Hmm, 3mA is quite a lot but worth playing with
[21:59] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[21:59] <LeoBodnar> Via power supervisor
[21:59] <Laurenceb__> it also wont charge below 0C, but you can bodge the thermistor settings
[22:00] <Laurenceb__> theres a similar Taiwanese IC
[22:00] <Laurenceb__> just a sec..
[22:00] <LeoBodnar> like this http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=8690421&CMP=i-bf9f-00001000
[22:00] <LeoBodnar> Great solution to kick MCU out of coma
[22:01] <LeoBodnar> when power dies very slowly and comes back slowly as well. Most mcus don't like that
[22:04] <Laurenceb__> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=2031+202737+110201791+110133786+110519454+110515256+110470198+110155235+103124&Ntk=gensearch&Ntt=charger&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&No=0&getResults=true&appliedparametrics=true&locale=en_UK&divisionLocale=en_UK&catalogId=&skipManufacturer=false&skipParametricAttributeId=&prevNValues=2031+202737+110201791+110133786+110519454+110515256+110470198+110155235&mm=1002689||,&
[22:04] <Laurenceb__> filtersHidden=false&appliedHidden=false&autoApply=false&originalQueryURL=%2Fjsp%2Fsearch%2Fbrowse.jsp%3FN%3D2031%2B202737%26Ntk%3Dgensearch%26Ntt%3Dcharger%26Ntx%3Dmode%2Bmatchallpartial%26No%3D0%26getResults%3Dtrue%26appliedparametrics%3Dtrue%26locale%3Den_UK%26divisionLocale%3Den_UK%26catalogId%3D%26skipManufacturer%3Dfalse%26skipParametricAttributeId%3D%26prevNValues%3D2031%2B202737
[22:04] <Laurenceb__> eeek
[22:04] <Laurenceb__> http://uk.farnell.com/zmdi/zspm4523aa1w/supercap-charger-1mhz-1-5a-16pqfn/dp/2322439
[22:04] <Laurenceb__> that
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[22:05] <Laurenceb__> http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ZMDI/ZSPM4523AA1W/?qs=%2fha2pyFadugg8%2fzr6mrd6H9Imef%2f1OGyUmDzRB5S3kM%3d
[22:06] <Laurenceb__> nice and cheap
[22:07] <LeoBodnar> I am going to play with them. I think I will stick with LiFePO4 for now. LiPo has too high a voltage for charging
[22:07] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[22:07] <LeoBodnar> Unfortunately small pouch LiFePO4s are hard to find
[22:11] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[22:12] Wouter-[pa3weg] (~wouter@5354D2D3.cm-6-5d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[22:13] <Herman-PB0AHX> go a way wouter hihihihi lol
[22:13] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> hahaha, zak door je stoel (pardon my french)
[22:13] <LeoBodnar> PowerFilm panels are really good but very fragile.
[22:13] <Laurenceb__> bbl
[22:13] <LeoBodnar> k
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGJWbTosdfs&feature=player_detailpage&t=168 insane
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> (3d printer + octocopter)
[22:14] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> hi all
[22:15] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> just here to check up on Herman, Hi
[22:16] <arko> SpeedEvil: that;s the rosebowl!
[22:16] <arko> thats where i go flying myself
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> yes
[22:16] <arko> i met the deezmaker guy
[22:16] <arko> and his poop machines
[22:17] <arko> i imagine that 3d print comes out all drink squiggle like
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> Small world.
[22:17] <arko> srsly
[22:19] <Laurenceb__> why has youtube got all carbon fibrey
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[22:19] <SpeedEvil> ?
[22:19] <Laurenceb__> the scroll bar
[22:19] <Laurenceb__> wtf
[22:19] <Laurenceb__> that thing is mad
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> Looks the same here
[22:21] S_Mark (~S_Mark@host81-157-60-183.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:23] <Willdude123> Wouldn't it be cool if you could get ucas points for Ham radio exams?
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[22:25] <SpeedEvil> It's something to go onto the application forms.
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[22:45] <SpeedEvil> Is there a UK lightning detector?
[22:45] S_Mark (~S_Mark@host81-157-60-183.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> I'm getting constant grumbling around me, with the occasional bright flashes
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[22:49] <LazyLeopard> There's UK coverage on http://www.blitzortung.org
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[22:58] <D001_> just looking at spacener.us and xaben is still transmitting, does that mean it is stuck 181m aBS
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[23:08] <cyclops> hi!
[23:09] <cyclops> Just soldered my first battery pack :D
[23:09] <cyclops> With old batteries but its a start
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[23:19] <Willdude123> Is anyone here?
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[23:22] <arko> yes
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> Maybe.
[23:23] g0hww (~g0hww@46-18-104-230.static.vivaciti.org) joined #highaltitude.
[23:27] <jiffe98> planning our second balloon launch on saturday
[23:28] <Willdude123> Got acceptef for adsense.
[23:30] <Willdude123> ^not an invitation to click ads on my blog, but if something appeals to you go ahead, but you really don't have to.
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[00:00] --- Wed Jul 24 2013