highaltitude.log.20130719

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[00:25] <jcoxon> finally...
[00:26] <arko> woah
[00:26] <arko> you're awake/
[00:26] <jcoxon> got this damn thing to work
[00:26] <arko> yay?
[00:26] <jcoxon> yeah
[00:26] <jcoxon> so i'm now keying up my radio using hte vox feature rather than triggering the PT
[00:26] <jcoxon> PTT*
[00:27] <jcoxon> which means i'm not getting tones of RF back
[00:27] <jcoxon> which means i'm not resetting the avr
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[00:29] <jcoxon> arko, i go on to night shifts tomorrow (well today)
[00:29] <jcoxon> so need to stay up late and sleep late
[00:29] <arko> ah
[00:29] <arko> livin like the americas
[00:30] <jcoxon> so if this works i'll be able to ping the ISS tomorrow
[00:30] <arko> nice!
[00:30] <arko> 2.4ghz?
[00:30] <Guest10440> Anyone know of any license exempt transmitters for the US? ukhas.org states that "the main workhorse on the payloads are Radiometrix NTX2 434.075Mhz 10mW modules." But it seems to only be exempt for the UK and EU frequencies
[00:30] <jcoxon> 144.825Mhz
[00:30] <jcoxon> packet
[00:30] <arko> ohhh
[00:30] <arko> ax.25
[00:30] <arko> nice
[00:30] <arko> good luck dude
[00:31] <jcoxon> Guest10440, yeah thats correct
[00:31] <jcoxon> its actually easier to get your radio licence in the US then to find a good transmitter
[00:31] <jcoxon> i know that something around 900Mhz is exempt
[00:31] <arko> 915Mhz
[00:31] Action: jcoxon is uk based
[00:32] <arko> Guest10440: you in the US?
[00:32] <Guest10440> Yes
[00:32] <arko> nice! me too
[00:33] <Guest10440> So going for a license is a better idea than getting a license exempt one?
[00:33] <arko> very much so
[00:33] <arko> its worth it
[00:33] <arko> like $14
[00:34] <arko> if you are near Los Angeles I'll help you track
[00:34] <arko> im trying to get more RTTY stations in the US
[00:35] <qyx_> Guest10440: 434/868 are EU ism bands, try 915
[00:35] <arko> heck i'll buy you a rtl-usb even
[00:36] <Guest10440> oh wow thanks
[00:36] <Guest10440> How is the process of getting a license?
[00:36] <qyx_> dont't know, i am not licensed :)
[00:40] <jcoxon> Guest10440, there are exam centres i think
[00:40] <jcoxon> but also they do them at field days etc
[00:40] <jcoxon> which are quite cool as you can get to play around as well
[00:41] <jcoxon> Guest10440, http://www.arrl.org/find-a-club
[00:41] <jcoxon> perhaps http://www.arrl.org/licensing-education-training is better
[00:42] <Guest10440> thanks
[00:43] <jcoxon> also its good as it teaches some radio stuff, how things work
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[05:12] <Guest10440> Any americans here know anything about the ISM 900MHz band?
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[05:30] <Guest10440> Any americans here know anything about the ISM 900MHz band?
[05:32] Nick change: Arbition_ -> Arbition
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[06:27] <jcoxon> morning all
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[06:36] <UpuWork> morning jcoxon
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[06:45] <jcoxon> UpuWork, going for an ISS pass in a bit
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[06:46] <jcoxon> 10mins
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[06:58] <UpuWork> did you get it ?
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[07:00] <Guest10440> Anyone know if the 900MHz band is license exempt for the US?
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[07:02] <fsphil> Guest10440: I believe so
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[07:03] <Guest10440> alright thanks
[07:03] <fsphil> jcoxon: what changes did you make
[07:03] <jcoxon> damn, looks like they've turned off the packet
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[07:03] <jcoxon> no one got anything through
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[07:04] <jcoxon> fsphil, so i made everything simple, just a cap between the pwm and radio
[07:04] <fsphil> yea last packet was an hour and a half ago
[07:04] <jcoxon> then i added a tone before the packet to key up the vox
[07:04] <jcoxon> and then a tone a little bit after to key it down
[07:04] <jcoxon> well to stop it holding open
[07:04] <fsphil> that works?
[07:04] <jcoxon> yeah
[07:05] <fsphil> I'm surprised the second tone does anything
[07:05] <jcoxon> as a back up i added a transmission timeout of 15 seconds
[07:05] <jcoxon> well i think what it does is gives it a tone to then timeout on
[07:05] <jcoxon> rather then getting noise
[07:05] <jcoxon> which holds it open
[07:05] <fsphil> ah
[07:05] <eroomde> morn
[07:05] <fsphil> a little resistor to ground on the radio side might help
[07:06] <fsphil> though I'd expect it already to have that
[07:06] <jcoxon> ground aprs is working
[07:06] <jcoxon> http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FM6JCX-11&timerange=3600&tail=3600
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[07:09] <fsphil> wonder what they're up to
[07:09] <fsphil> it's quite unreliable
[07:09] <jcoxon> it turns off for EVAs
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[07:11] <fsphil> what ever happened the mailing list bot?
[07:12] <UpuWork> not sure
[07:12] <UpuWork> I know twitter was broken
[07:12] <UpuWork> but I disabled that
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[07:14] <Willdude123> Morning
[07:16] <eroomde> morning Willdude123
[07:22] <PB0NER> Morning Guy's and Girls
[07:22] <fsphil> one can hope
[07:23] <eroomde> i was gonna say
[07:23] <eroomde> it's not the best
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[07:24] <Willdude123> Right. I need an action plan. What I'm gonna do is stick with the BBB, ntx2 and ubx. I'm gonna solder some jumper wires to the 3v3 tx and rx on the ubx board, and then I am going to wire it up to a serial port. After that I will get it reading nmea, and then make a parser for that. Followimng that I will try and write ubx proprietary code.
[07:25] <Willdude123> Then I will make whatever efficiency improvements I can, and lock it away in an airtight chamber for 5 yearsa because I can't dly it.
[07:25] <eroomde> we can probably sort something out for the latter
[07:25] <eroomde> but the former sounds like a good plan
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[07:25] <eroomde> just set a small achievable objective to start with
[07:25] <eroomde> like, 'i want to see the gps just print *something* on a screen'
[07:26] <LeoBodnar> like making a cup of coffee
[07:26] <eroomde> anf that
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[07:26] <LeoBodnar> morning humans!
[07:26] <fsphil> or bottle of water
[07:26] <fsphil> once can hope about that too
[07:26] <Willdude123> Yeah
[07:26] <Willdude123> Well, I will take it in small steps.
[07:27] <eroomde> there's actually quite a lot involved just in terms of (depend on your linux) setting up things, ownerships, usergroups just to make sure you can easily access the gps
[07:27] <eroomde> so just getting that working is a good first step
[07:28] <Willdude123> I chose the BBB because using the arduino and c was like learning irregular verbs in french before english.
[07:28] <eroomde> then we can gradually introduce something like pyserial, which lets you control the serial port in python and so on
[07:28] <fsphil> to be honest, if you where learning that before english -- it would be english you'd struggle with
[07:28] <eroomde> however, you have picked something and are gonna stick with it
[07:28] <eroomde> and that's a good start
[07:29] <Willdude123> Yeah, the uarts seem to work fine, just need to enable them. (they also act as gpio pins)
[07:30] <Willdude123> And Upu's blog explanation of interrupts made it a bit clearer, but I'm not doing that just yet.
[07:30] <eroomde> indeed, you might not need them on the BBB
[07:30] <eroomde> because it's running linux
[07:30] <fsphil> you won't need interrupts on a linux system
[07:30] <eroomde> and linux, the operating system, is meant to handle all that low-level stuff for you
[07:31] <eroomde> and multitasking and so on
[07:31] <eroomde> so you could have one proces that just talks to the serial port and, say, writes the gps data to a file
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[07:31] <eroomde> and then another completely separate process that reads that file and writes the latest line to rtty, say
[07:31] <eroomde> there are lots of ways
[07:32] <eroomde> but first, as you recognise, let's get gps comms up and running
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[07:33] <eroomde> morning LeoBodnar
[07:33] <LeoBodnar> morning!
[07:34] <PB0NER> Yeah! Morning
[07:35] <Guest10440> Is having a tranciever particularly important for tracking a gps, or would a reciever only be suitable? I suppose it would be better to have a tranciever for the versatility though
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[07:36] <eroomde> Guest10440: receiver-only is ok
[07:36] <eroomde> indeed without a radio license you can't really use the receiver bit
[07:36] <eroomde> er, the transmitter bit sorry
[07:37] <mfa298> Guest10440: on the ground you only need a reciever but in the uk at least most of the good recievers are in amaareur radio kit which is usually a tranciever
[07:37] <eroomde> but it's worth, if you are willing to spend the money, getting a decent ham radio rig (the FT-817 is *really* popular) and then building up to getting an amateur radio license if you find you enjoy it
[07:38] <eroomde> it's a worthwhile thing to do as it means you can build your own radio equipment too (legally) which lets you do a lot of interesting experimentation
[07:38] <Guest10440> hmm
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[07:39] <fsphil> also means you can transmit on 434mhz in the US
[07:39] <fsphil> which is in the amateur 70cm band
[07:39] <eroomde> the FT-790R is an older rig that is also popular. it's just for the 70cm band, but it's very very sensitive
[07:39] <Guest10440> I do feel like learning the information and getting myself a license would be a good idea. Then I don't really have to worry too much about getting particular parts and I'll know much more about what I'm doing
[07:40] <mfa298> part of the choice of reciever will depend on what band you're using. There are fewer good recievers that operate at 900Mhz for the US ISM band
[07:40] <fsphil> I believe the UK has 900mhz now too
[07:41] <eroomde> Guest10440: yes i agree, there's basically nothing to loose getting a license. You'll learn stuff and you'll have the legal right to transmit on lots of interesting bands.
[07:41] <eroomde> eg in the US you can build a transmitter to use the existing APRS network
[07:41] <fsphil> you'll also get to meet people who might be able to help you
[07:42] <PB0NER> yeah Ham radio is great fun.... (why the hell is my 2350MHz VCO/PLL not stable....)
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[07:42] <eroomde> you'll also, with a callsign, suddenly open up a massive world of second-hand equipment
[07:42] <fsphil> above 1ghz lies madness :)
[07:42] <eroomde> hams are very good at reuse and recycle
[07:42] <eroomde> above 1GHz lies awesome :)
[07:42] <eroomde> i'm finding it *fascinating*
[07:42] <fsphil> yea same
[07:42] <fsphil> but it's so odd
[07:43] <eroomde> i've learnt so much working on the gps stuff
[07:43] <eroomde> and now the new project has downlinks at 2.4GHz too
[07:43] <PB0NER> I have 1,8-30Mhz, never use it, 2m and 70cm for sat & balloons
[07:43] <fsphil> I guess my main problem is I have few receivers for anything over 1.2ghz ish
[07:43] <fsphil> it's all a mystery :)
[07:43] <PB0NER> >1Ghz interesting side effects....
[07:43] <eroomde> there is a good power allowance at 5GHz too
[07:43] <eroomde> license free, airborne
[07:44] <eroomde> you'd need a dish, but that still presents a lot of interesting options
[07:44] <PB0NER> I have some 5Ghz radio links
[07:44] <fsphil> no shortage of old satellite dishes in the uk
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[07:45] <PB0NER> not every dish is usable due to its curve
[07:45] <fsphil> they're all offset dishes
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[07:46] <PB0NER> offset has advantages...
[07:46] <fsphil> yea, no shadow
[07:46] <fsphil> though it looks really odd when aiming at the horizon
[07:46] <PB0NER> like the send/receive head is not in the signal path
[07:47] <PB0NER> these are nice: http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/?model=TL-ANT5830B
[07:47] <eroomde> feed-points for dishes are an interesting science too
[07:47] <PB0NER> true
[07:47] <eroomde> basically loads of work we're doing at the moment necessitates our getting a ZVL
[07:47] <PB0NER> or really easy
[07:47] <eroomde> I really really want this little toy
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[07:48] <eroomde> we borrowed one last year, with the SpecAn and demod options
[07:48] <PB0NER> I use a similar grid antenna for 2,3Ghz
[07:48] <eroomde> http://www.rohde-schwarz.co.uk/product/zvl.html
[07:48] <eroomde> it's such a nice bit of kit
[07:48] <fsphil> yea I've got the same for 2.4ghz
[07:49] <PB0NER> it works well below 2400!
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[07:50] <eroomde> we have a wonderful open-field site at work in principle
[07:50] <eroomde> i.e. we're surrounded by massive empty fields
[07:50] <PB0NER> the 2,4Ghz model has 24dBi gain... which is salestalk, but ~20dBd is a more interesting figure
[07:50] <eroomde> which is sort of 80% as good as an anechoic chamber for 1% the price
[07:50] <PB0NER> 10Db is 10 times, 20 db = 10x10 = 100x and I put 35-40W into is....
[07:50] <PB0NER> is=it
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[07:51] <PB0NER> so birds, be carefull, that is a 3500-4000W microwave oven.... without the oven bit
[07:51] <LeoBodnar> Rohde & Schwarz == sweet surrender
[07:52] <PB0NER> I someone sposers me one... I will make all your messurements ;-)
[07:52] <PB0NER> spnsors...
[07:52] <PB0NER> sponsors
[07:52] <eroomde> it's a lovely poinson
[07:52] <eroomde> poison*
[07:52] <eroomde> our rep keeps lending us stuff
[07:52] <fsphil> getting you hooked
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[07:52] <eroomde> 'thought you might like a play with this....'
[07:52] <eroomde> he knows...
[07:53] <PB0NER> but... 13Ghz.... not really great range...
[07:53] <eroomde> but i think we have the project to justify getting this now
[07:53] <eroomde> so, am excited
[07:53] <LeoBodnar> It is illegal to show R&S equipment to university kids
[07:53] <PB0NER> what about the 24Ghz, 47Ghz......247Ghz amateur bands.... pretty useless for that...
[07:54] <fsphil> how would you even modulate something at 247ghz
[07:54] <PB0NER> that is the experiment
[07:54] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: hell yes
[07:54] <eroomde> or at a hackerspace
[07:54] <LeoBodnar> Just use IR
[07:55] <PB0NER> Gamma rays...
[07:55] <PB0NER> we have a repeater with a 450nm 'receiver'
[07:56] <LeoBodnar> I love Marconi for the name and R&S for everything else
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[07:56] <PB0NER> I know the guy with the original trans atlantic marconi call
[07:56] <eroomde> we have a pair of marconi siggens
[07:56] <PB0NER> G2Yt
[07:56] <eroomde> 10khz-5.4GHz
[07:56] <eroomde> amazingly good phase noise
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[07:56] <eroomde> can use them as LOs for GPS and so on
[07:57] <eroomde> and when i repaired one, i was delightly to see that the whole thing was machined out of a huge billet of aluminium
[07:57] <PB0NER> ehhh by the way.... 900Mhz receiver..... funcube dongle?
[07:57] <PB0NER> or RTL if it must be useless crap cheap
[07:57] <eroomde> you could lob it off a tall building and it would carry on working inside the enormous crater it would make
[07:59] <PB0NER> yeah I like working in craters.... they tend to fill up when it rains
[07:59] <eroomde> :)
[08:00] <PB0NER> interesting use for my scuba gear
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[08:01] <PB0NER> anyone reported B-6 'touchdown'?
[08:03] <PB0NER> (I would send an email If I would have found it, assuming there is such an address on the payload)
[08:07] <fsphil> correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe any payload has been recovered from France?
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[08:09] <x-f> has been, Upu received one of his back, with a bunch of parachutes from the meteosonde hunter
[08:09] <x-f> i don't remember his callsign or name though
[08:09] <fsphil> ah yes
[08:09] <fsphil> I forgot about that
[08:10] <UpuWork> F5APQ
[08:10] <UpuWork> Jacques
[08:10] <PB0NER> that is... people in France cannot read Brittish zip codes...
[08:10] <UpuWork> He went out into a frosty field @ 6am and recovered
[08:11] <PB0NER> Oh, F5APQ, remember that call... he dos some tracking too
[08:11] <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/IMG_0891.jpg
[08:11] <UpuWork> came back with more parachutes then it went with
[08:11] <PB0NER> haha during the fall..... it hit a french weather balloon?
[08:12] <PB0NER> or where there liitle bits of skydiver attached to it?
[08:13] <UpuWork> Jacques likes to collect radiosondes
[08:14] <PB0NER> The only one close to my house kept on flying to Germany... I did see it from my livingroom window though... The first one I ever tracked... PIE or something... the one with RPi and camera
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[08:16] <daveake> That one's lost, possibly in France
[08:16] <daveake> Last seen heading into France from Switzerland
[08:17] <daveake> Launched at the same time as UpuWork's AVA flight that was recovered from a mountain in Austria!
[08:17] <PB0NER> yep, that one.... I did receive and decode that one up to 530km+ with a IC910, no pre-amp and a diamond X5000
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[08:19] <PB0NER> Cannot wait until I have the same antenna rig as PA3WEG has @work
[08:19] <PB0NER> ¬2000,- down the drain, for tracking balloons...
[08:19] <PB0NER> ant satelites for that matter
[08:20] <PB0NER> the little insect should be 'and'
[08:21] <fsphil> when I move house I'm totally getting a motorised antenna for tracking sats and habs
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[08:22] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[08:22] <PB0NER> oh guess what, that vector analizer from R&S is discontinued...
[08:24] <PB0NER> refurbished still US$29322 ...
[08:24] <fsphil> no decimal points in there?
[08:25] <PB0NER> there is.... behind last digit, add ,00
[08:25] Action: fsphil cries
[08:25] <fsphil> my scope cost £200 and I thought that was bad
[08:25] <PB0NER> so us$ 29,322.00 in correct format for you overthere
[08:26] <PB0NER> ( in dutch it would have been US$ 29.322,00)
[08:26] <fsphil> the comma as a decimal point looks so odd to me
[08:27] <PB0NER> I'm a programmer and I'm used to both...
[08:28] <PB0NER> crap... 32C next week.... and my CC is broken (sensor fail)
[08:28] <fsphil> I've found some old AC units in one of the storage rooms, gonna borrow them
[08:28] <PB0NER> (in my car)
[08:29] <fsphil> my car's so old it doesn't even have a temperature sensor
[08:29] <fsphil> it has a fan, which blows hot air
[08:29] <PB0NER> I think it is the crancshaft sensor or so... some fool broke that fixing a new exhaust
[08:30] <fsphil> it's coming to the point where I should probably think about getting a new one
[08:30] <fsphil> a car with room for a radio and tracking equipment :)
[08:30] <daveake> My little car doesn't have a temp sensor, or A/C, or even a roof :p
[08:30] <PB0NER> me too... this one is from 2001
[08:30] <fsphil> hehe, same
[08:30] <fsphil> I imagine it's quite noisy too daveake
[08:30] <PB0NER> but basically still a very good car
[08:31] <fsphil> and don't even start on the fuel economy
[08:31] <daveake> It was quiet when I bought it, but I soon got that fixed
[08:31] <PB0NER> so getting a new one is sort of wast of money i do not have...
[08:31] <fsphil> lol
[08:31] <daveake> I'll take it over to Cambridge tomorrow
[08:31] <fsphil> yea other than the driver window not working, my car is fine
[08:31] <daveake> Should be a good run
[08:31] <fsphil> though the front suspension doesn't sound too healthy
[08:32] <PB0NER> mine does 1:15 (l/km)
[08:32] <PB0NER> with a 6cyl 3000cc Diesel
[08:32] <daveake> The Pug is in the garage ... the handbrake cable assembly (in 3 parts ffs) got changed last time, and the front part is broke
[08:32] <PB0NER> bummer]
[08:32] <fsphil> ack
[08:33] <daveake> Well it's a free repair
[08:33] <PB0NER> most of the time I fix stuff myself...
[08:33] <daveake> and it's not that I'm short of cars to choose from
[08:33] <fsphil> there is a car parked up the road from here, and they've put eyelashes on the headlights
[08:33] <daveake> It's done 228k miles now
[08:33] <daveake> ugh
[08:33] <fsphil> it's a bit sad looking
[08:33] <PB0NER> mine about the same
[08:33] <fsphil> otherwise a nice car
[08:34] <fsphil> also has no roof
[08:34] <PB0NER> visitor jus arrived....
[08:34] <fsphil> scare them away
[08:34] <PB0NER> not with this one... important
[08:35] <PB0NER> be back later
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[08:42] <jcoxon> oooo found a bug in my code that would have meant i wouldn't have been able to hit the ISS even if it was online
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[08:45] <fsphil> is it a good one?
[08:45] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:45] <jcoxon> did iss_in_view == 0 rather than = 0
[08:45] <jcoxon> so it wouldn't have sent the correct packet anyway
[08:45] <fsphil> ah!
[08:45] <fsphil> the compiler should warn about that kind of thing, it's easily done
[08:46] <jcoxon> i think this setup should work
[08:46] <jcoxon> its as good as my old setup with my ft817
[08:47] <jcoxon> easily getting into the local aprs network
[08:47] <jcoxon> if you see here: http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=M6JCX-11
[08:47] <jcoxon> the final int is the elevation of the ISS
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[08:48] <fsphil> this would be a good backup for a buoy
[08:49] <jcoxon> hmmmm, i wonder why jcoxon has 2 radios...
[08:49] <fsphil> hah
[08:49] <jcoxon> if it ever works
[08:50] <jcoxon> i'd love to get it to decode packet as well (those these uv-5r are really deaf)
[08:50] <jcoxon> and then we could send the latest ISS TLE to it vis the ISS
[08:50] <fsphil> yea that would fit in a packet
[08:50] <fsphil> the iss should transmit that anyway
[08:50] <jcoxon> it should
[08:51] <jcoxon> oh well
[08:51] <fsphil> decoding packet seems easily enough
[08:51] <jcoxon> we shall just have to wait for the packet repeater to be turned on
[08:51] <mattbrejza> put a 144 habamp on it...
[08:51] <jcoxon> fsphil, oh yes
[08:51] <fsphil> I'd be tempted to put some FEC in there, so the payload could be decoded even if the packet can't
[08:51] <jcoxon> mattbrejza, thats very beyonce
[08:51] <fsphil> lol
[08:52] <fsphil> habamp would be in the transmit path though
[08:52] <mattbrejza> although ud have to have a txrx switch, so not quite so simple
[08:53] <jcoxon> for balloon based operations would be cool to digipeat it
[08:53] <jcoxon> so ground -> iss -> balloon -> ground
[08:53] <mattbrejza> fsphil: does aprs have a checksum - meaning if there are errors the whole packet will be ignored whether or not there is FEC?
[08:53] <fsphil> just a crc
[08:53] <fsphil> it'll drop a packet for a single bit error
[08:54] <fsphil> there is a varient of AX.25 with FEC, FX.25
[08:54] <mattbrejza> so i suppose if its your rx you can use the fec, but for uplink you cant do that
[08:54] <fsphil> the ISS would receive an FX.25 packet, it's just FEC tacked onto the end
[08:54] <fsphil> but it wouldn't send it
[08:54] <mattbrejza> ah, if it supports fx25 then no issue i guess
[08:54] <fsphil> fx.25 is ax.25+fec .. the iss will just ignore the fec
[08:55] <mattbrejza> oh right
[08:55] <fsphil> what I was thinking of is having a packet within the packet
[08:55] <mattbrejza> so barely any point?
[08:55] <fsphil> inception for data
[08:55] <mattbrejza> but if the FEC is in the packet, and there is a couple of errors that can be recovered ,the crc will mean its not repeated
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[08:55] <fsphil> the receiver wouldn't be looking for an ax.25 frame, just the packet that happens to be in the ax.25 payload
[08:56] <fsphil> for uplink yes
[08:56] <mattbrejza> oh its just a voice repeater?
[08:56] <fsphil> but we have more power then
[08:56] <fsphil> this is just to make it a it easier for the remote device to receive the data
[08:56] <fsphil> it'll not have a great antenna
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[08:57] <mattbrejza> uplink in this context is a bit confusing :P
[08:57] <fsphil> yea, uplink to iss
[08:58] <mattbrejza> talking of buoys lets check on kraken today
[08:58] <LeoBodnar> Forget GPS tracking, we need to attach a bottle of water to the payload and have resident water diviner here. All water companies apparently use them as BBC R4 yesterday have revealed.
[08:58] <fsphil> you might need to clear the kraken map, from when it was on the boat
[08:59] <fsphil> oh it's moving away
[08:59] <fsphil> I'm guessing it's going to make little circles as it slowly moves back to shore
[08:59] <mattbrejza> it seems kinda warm still
[09:00] <mattbrejza> temp sensor must be in a different place to last time
[09:00] <fsphil> it's hot out there
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[09:49] <mattbrejza> hmm ofcom intend to upgrade freeview to DVB-T2 by 2017
[09:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> UpuWork: Ping
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[10:18] <nosebleedkt> hello people
[10:18] <nosebleedkt> I need an answer :)
[10:18] <nosebleedkt> how can i calculate the descent rate if i have the payload weight and the radius of the parachute?
[10:19] <UpuWork> hey G0TDJ_Steve
[10:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey Tony :D
[10:19] <SpeedEvil> nosebleedkt: using aerodynamics
[10:19] <nosebleedkt> any formula available?
[10:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> UpuWork: Have you got all the files?
[10:20] <nosebleedkt> i want to enter a number for the descent rate on habhub
[10:20] <SpeedEvil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data has a table of suggestions
[10:21] <HixWork> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:parachute_sizing_chart nosebleedkt
[10:21] <SpeedEvil> Ah - that was wwhat I was trying to find.
[10:21] <SpeedEvil> :)
[10:21] <UpuWork> just a PDF atm g0hww
[10:21] <UpuWork> sorry
[10:22] <UpuWork> G0TDJ_Steve
[10:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> Should be fully populated now. do a Ctrl-5 to refresh
[10:23] <UpuWork> not there
[10:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> Weird city.... Hold on
[10:24] <nosebleedkt> nice thank you
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[10:35] <fsphil> mattbrejza: boo, that'll make every one of my receivers useless
[10:37] <mattbrejza> it is 4 years time though, but ideally all new kit needs to be t2 soon
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[10:43] <mfa298> you mean I won't be able to use the USB DVB tuner I bought 10 years ago any more :(
[10:44] <mfa298> Not that I use it anymore anyway, it's large, requires external power and is only usb 1.1
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[11:05] <mfa298> that's a new one, the local rag says that the council is sending out the gritter lorries (normally seen for ice)
[11:06] <mfa298> apparently some of the roads are starting to melt in the heat.
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[11:06] <craag> hahaha!
[11:06] <LazyLeopard> Ah. Just hope they've put sand and grit in the gritters, and not salt...
[11:06] <fsphil> I thought for a horrible moment there, that you'd write "the council is sending out glitter lorries"
[11:07] <G0TDJ_Steve> 'D'you wanna be in my gang, my gang, my gang....'
[11:08] <morteh_> paedo
[11:08] <daveake> Does it go round picking up little girls?
[11:08] <fsphil> I was thinking of the shiney stuff, not the freaky man
[11:09] <fsphil> just this lorry spreading glitter all over the roads
[11:09] <fsphil> everything looking like the rainbow track from Mario Kart
[11:10] <daveake> Follow the yellow, red, blue, green and purple road
[11:11] <fsphil> don't fall of the edge
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[11:11] <fsphil> unless you're using the cheat at the start
[11:12] <jcoxon> hey all
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[11:12] <fsphil> afternoon!
[11:12] <jcoxon> i know this is cheeky but if any of you read hackaday it would be great if you could help out:
[11:12] <jcoxon> http://igg.me/p/let-s-buy-hackaday/x/4000931
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[11:32] <cyclops> Hi!
[11:32] <fsphil> ello
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[11:53] <Willdude123> Hi people.
[11:54] <Willdude123> I need some way of getting on reddit at school.
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[11:54] <mattbrejza> set up a aprs based internet relay to your house
[11:55] <fsphil> on 4343mhz
[11:55] <fsphil> -3
[11:56] <mfa298> surely packet/ax.25 rather than aprs
[11:56] <fsphil> IP over APRS messages
[11:56] <fsphil> cause APRS isn't convoluted enough
[11:56] <jcoxon> fsphil, hmmmm
[11:56] <jcoxon> http://www.issfanclub.com/node/36698
[11:56] <mfa298> hmmm, poor bandwidth and poor rtt.
[11:57] <mattbrejza> is imgur blocked as well Willdude123 ?
[11:57] <jcoxon> why is that i finally after months get everything working...
[11:57] <fsphil> that's a bit odd -- wonder if they've mis-configured it
[11:57] <mattbrejza> reddit is basically a front end for imgur it seems
[11:58] <Willdude123> mattbrejza: THink so, will check.
[11:59] <Willdude123> Yes it is
[11:59] <mattbrejza> shame
[11:59] <Willdude123> Hmm
[11:59] <mattbrejza> 3G enabled phone?
[11:59] <Willdude123> Nah
[11:59] <mattbrejza> you can tunnel internet through ssh
[11:59] <mattbrejza> if the ssh server has it enabled
[11:59] <Willdude123> Not without exes.
[11:59] <mattbrejza> all you need is putty
[12:00] <mattbrejza> (which is oc a exe_
[12:00] <Willdude123> Yeah
[12:00] <Willdude123> I'm using shellinabox.
[12:01] <mattbrejza> can you run java?
[12:01] <Willdude123> Yes
[12:01] <Willdude123> I think
[12:01] <Willdude123> But bery slowly.
[12:01] <mattbrejza> just need to find a java ssh client :P
[12:01] <fsphil> well it is java after all :)
[12:02] <Willdude123> I can use lynx.
[12:02] <Willdude123> I doubt a java ssh client will let me tunnel internet.
[12:02] <fsphil> have you checked them all?
[12:03] <mattbrejza> all it needs to be able to do is open a local port for you to tell your browser to direct traffic down
[12:03] <fsphil> dynamic forwarding
[12:03] <fsphil> or, you could just not do reddit at school :)
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[12:04] <daveake> Read K&R instead
[12:05] <mfa298> or work through all of learn python the hard way if you're going down the python route.
[12:07] <PB0NER> YEAH Python....
[12:07] <PB0NER> lynx..... use wget
[12:09] <PB0NER> In many cases I can help out with Python, I do a lot of low level stugg with it..
[12:10] <mattbrejza> Willdude123: it might be the case that putty or plink is sitting somwehere on c:/ to allow a program to work, so persumably runnning exes from c: is allowed
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[12:53] <x-f> Atlas 5 rocket launch in 6 minutes - http://www.spaceflightnow.com/atlas/av040/status.html
[12:55] <Piet0r> :o
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[13:05] <fsphil> that make it look soooo easy
[13:05] <fsphil> the*
[13:05] <fsphil> they*
[13:07] <Seejjay> Bit faster ascent than a HAB!
[13:08] <fsphil> ack, don't wanna see people
[13:09] <Seejjay> # of viewers shot down
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[13:37] <cyclops> Guys, wich software do you recommend to decode the RTTY with the Funcube DOngle Pro+?
[13:38] <cyclops> *which
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[13:39] <HixWork> cyclops, windows?
[13:39] <cyclops> Well i have a Mac but just virtualised windows
[13:39] <cyclops> I just installed SDRsharo
[13:39] <cyclops> *sharp
[13:39] <HixWork> i believe gnuradio runs on mac for win sdrsharp.com
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[13:40] <HixWork> that'll do cyclops
[13:40] <cyclops> Perfect
[13:40] <HixWork> s'what I use
[13:40] <cyclops> Lets see how its done
[13:41] <cyclops> Which option is to decode?
[13:41] <cyclops> this guide would work? http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi
[13:41] <HixWork> oh, sorry, missed out the fact that you then use the audio from that to feed into dl-fldigi
[13:41] <HixWork> yes
[13:42] <cyclops> thast the point
[13:42] <cyclops> i was confused
[13:42] <cyclops> Ok so from one to the other nice
[13:42] <cyclops> Thanks!
[13:42] <HixWork> yes- you can use aidio lead from audio out to mic or a virtual audio cable
[13:42] <HixWork> *audio
[13:43] <cyclops> perfect, lets test it
[13:44] <HixWork> here's a virtual audio cable solution too http://goo.gl/ZOYay
[13:45] <cyclops> so the SDRSharp sends the audio throw the "virtual cable" to the dl´fldigi
[13:45] <x-f> are you going to run dl-fldigi in windows?
[13:47] <cyclops> yes
[13:47] <cyclops> thats why i have the virtual machine
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[13:50] <x-f> my mac isn't strong enough to run sdrsharp and dl-fldigi on the virtualised windows, so i chose to run dl-fldigi on the mac
[13:50] <x-f> heh, it's complicated
[13:50] <cyclops> DOes it works well?
[13:50] <x-f> for me yes
[13:50] <x-f> but the idea is the same - get audio from one app to another
[13:51] <cyclops> ill try with windows and see how its works
[13:51] <x-f> right
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[14:21] <HixWork> cool clouds http://goo.gl/ZoVwY
[14:27] <Steffanx> On the internet everything is fake HixWork
[14:27] <HixWork> damn ;p
[14:27] <Steffanx> Especially when it looks like the image has been reposted 1000 times.
[14:27] <Steffanx> *uploaded and compressed
[14:28] <HixWork> i see no artifacts therer ;p
[14:28] <HixWork> *there
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[14:30] <HixWork> image search to the rescue http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap090824.html
[14:35] <HixWork> is there any regulation stopping a lgider being released at altitude any following its own course? i.e no control over it whatsoever
[14:35] <HixWork> *glider
[14:36] <daveake> Steve asked DM and was told "not allowed"
[14:37] <HixWork> grrr damn DangerMouse
[14:38] Action: HixWork contacts the government of sealand
[14:38] <daveake> :)
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[14:42] <HixWork> how far offshore is international waters?
[14:44] <HixWork> or would territorial waters do it
[14:44] <GW8RAK> 12 miles for territorial, but international is complicated around UK
[14:45] <HixWork> yeah, still >12Miles not very realistic i fear from the perspective of getting out there at reasonable cost
[14:47] <craag> Does that include dumb gliders like paper planes?
[14:47] <cm13g09> evening chrisstubbs
[14:47] <cm13g09> Parts are on their way
[14:47] <SpeedEvil> HixWork: clearly - the first stage is a RC boat.
[14:48] <daveake> craag It was paper planes that Steve asked about
[14:48] <craag> Thats a bit strange, oh well :(
[14:48] <HixWork> >12Miles it'd have to be automymous, and a pretty kin big one at that to carry a 1000g inflated balloon and payload safely
[14:49] <chrisstubbs> Hello
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[14:50] <GW8RAK> Windage on the balloon would be the problem unless you used it as a sail to drag the boat out to sea and release after 12 miles
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[14:50] <HixWork> yo chrisstubbs
[14:51] <craag> So a balloon tethered to a floating platform that then does a 'cut-up' at 12 miles out..
[14:51] <HixWork> I fear that using the balloon as a sail would end in tatters
[14:51] <HixWork> literally
[14:51] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: I have an RTLSDR and adaptors as needed on order
[14:51] <cm13g09> they may turn up tomorrow
[14:51] <cm13g09> but more than likely Monday
[14:52] <cm13g09> (after all, they are coming from Jersey!)
[14:52] <HixWork> cosycave?
[14:52] <cm13g09> yup
[14:52] <GW8RAK> Would the balloon tear? Have to launch in no severe weather
[14:52] <HixWork> they were pretty quick for me
[14:52] <cm13g09> HixWork: ok, cool
[14:52] <cm13g09> we'll see what happens
[14:52] <HixWork> GW8RAK, i think itd probably end up slapping the surface of the sea
[14:53] <chrisstubbs> Sweet :D
[14:53] <chrisstubbs> Is it the ezcap of the one with the curved end bit?
[14:53] <GW8RAK> There was talk of mesh covers for balloon the other day, so cover it until release
[14:53] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: it's a TV28T
[14:53] <HixWork> it'd snag, guarantee it
[14:53] <cm13g09> Newsky
[14:54] <GW8RAK> Considering the cost and size of a suitable hull, inflate at sea?
[14:55] <chrisstubbs> Fill a RIB with helium and just launch the RIB
[14:56] <HixWork> cm13g09, when did you order?
[14:57] <cm13g09> yesterday
[14:58] <cm13g09> late evening
[14:58] <cm13g09> only got a despatch message today
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[15:07] <HixWork> ahhh damn
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[15:10] <cm13g09> HixWork: yeah, so probably not tomorrow
[15:10] <cm13g09> I'm expecting Monday
[15:11] <cm13g09> unless we get a reprise of the sorting fiasco that used to happen with Sheffield vs Southampton
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[15:12] <cm13g09> Somehow, somewhere, with one supplier, I'd managed to arrange myself so my postcode was S017.... rather than SO17....
[15:12] <cm13g09> (spot the subtle difference)
[15:12] <HixWork> 00h
[15:12] <HixWork> ;p
[15:13] <cm13g09> One system was treating this as S 017, translating it to S17
[15:13] <cm13g09> and well....
[15:13] <froggy26862> hi new to irc, how do i change to a different channel?
[15:13] <cm13g09> the post was going to Sheffield...
[15:14] <cm13g09> froggy26862: use /join
[15:14] <craag> froggy26862: /join #channel
[15:14] <HixWork> "/join #newchannel"
[15:14] <froggy26862> thanks
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[15:15] <cm13g09> but yeah
[15:15] <cm13g09> HixWork: that was kinda fun
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[15:15] <cm13g09> I established fairly quickly that I'd actually typed SO, and somebody misread it as S0.....
[15:15] <cm13g09> it got printed as S0 on the label....
[15:16] <cm13g09> and Royal Mail were going "WTF!"?
[15:16] <cm13g09> (especially when said delivery address was "University of Southampton"
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[15:17] <HixWork> sometimes and address just works
[15:18] <HixWork> especially when it comes to humans interpreting things erroneously
[15:18] <HixWork> ^*an
[15:19] <Froggy2684> Just thought I'd let you all know I am looking at trying my hand at HAB. I was going to use a raspberrypi but changed to an arduino
[15:19] <cm13g09> HixWork: yup
[15:19] <HixWork> good plan Froggy2684
[15:19] <HixWork> smart move
[15:19] <cm13g09> I was amazed that stuff only got delayed by ~1 day
[15:19] <Froggy2684> It's cheaper when I lose it
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[15:20] <cm13g09> (as it went up to Sheffield, whose sorting office went "WHAT!?" and sent it to Southampton
[15:20] <craag> Froggy2684: And lighter to fly!
[15:20] <cm13g09> craag: we're on for a permanent tracking station in Essex
[15:20] <cm13g09> when the weather cools down
[15:20] <HixWork> huh?
[15:20] <cm13g09> I can't run everything in this weather
[15:20] <HixWork> where
[15:20] <cm13g09> well
[15:20] <cm13g09> semi-permanent
[15:21] <cm13g09> because I'm aiming to have a web-tunable SDR
[15:21] <craag> cm13g09: That sounds good, would be good to encourage a few more people to get one up.
[15:21] <HixWork> chelmsford way?
[15:21] <cm13g09> yeah
[15:21] <cm13g09> Chelmsford area
[15:21] <HixWork> sweet
[15:21] <craag> I've been meaning to put one up here, but need to talk to HeliosFA about firewall holes.
[15:21] <cm13g09> craag: you won't have a problem with F/W holes
[15:21] <Froggy2684> Just need to work out how to put it all together and to be able to track using ntx2. Think I will purchase the funcube or try to
[15:22] <cm13g09> I probably could poke them for you if he authed it
[15:22] <craag> Nah no rush
[15:22] <cm13g09> not sure I know that password though
[15:22] <HixWork> Froggy2684, for testing go to cosycave and get a cheap rtlsdr
[15:22] <craag> Froggy2684: Have you had a read of the UKHAS wiki?
[15:23] <HixWork> TV28T http://goo.gl/AMsmQ
[15:23] <Froggy2684> Yes that's where I found the orc channel. There is a lot of info on there to go through
[15:23] <HixWork> use the search function, it's effective, unlike most sites
[15:23] <Froggy2684> I have registered as well but haven't recieved an email with the password
[15:23] <craag> Froggy2684: There is! And a lot is hard to find, but there's an answer/guide to nearly everything somewhere on there/
[15:25] <Froggy2684> Hixwork thanks I will take a look
[15:25] <x-f> the orc channel :>
[15:25] <HixWork> onrine chat?
[15:26] <Froggy2684> Time to leave work so catch you all later I guess
[15:26] <HixWork> bye
[15:34] <cm13g09> lol - just had an update turn up for my phone
[15:34] <cm13g09> that "Allows you to update to the latest version of Android"
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[15:38] <HixWork> cm13g09, just root it
[15:38] <HixWork> hi Babs
[15:39] <Babs> Hey HixWork. So two weeks ago it was all quaternions, this week its being long duration, what current HAB trend should I be focusing on this weekend?
[15:40] <Babs> Did you get your IMU working? Mine keeps on staring at me from my desk willing me to do something with it
[15:40] <HixWork> I have pcbs a stencil components and no sodding solderpaste :/
[15:40] <HixWork> Have you had your wedding yet?
[15:42] <HixWork> babs i believe you should be concentrating on materials research to both reduce the cost and improve the structural integrity of stabilotron II
[15:43] <HixWork> or you could come up with a sceme to make it more expensive and even more outrageous :)
[15:43] <HixWork> *sheme
[15:43] <HixWork> jesus scheme
[15:43] <HixWork> *****jesus. Scheme
[15:43] <HixWork> can i go home yet?
[15:44] <cm13g09> HixWork: 15 mins :P
[15:44] <cm13g09> (I assume)
[15:45] <HixWork> hmmm, I didn't turn up until late as i knew theer would be no CAD server. There still is no CAD server
[15:46] <HixWork> Though I pretty much watched the whole of todays Tour de France stage uninterrupted
[15:46] <Babs> My scheme for stabiltron should really be to make it as large as possible.
[15:46] <Babs> so that it can reach altitude without ever getting off the ground.
[15:46] <HixWork> but I'm bored of being held against my wishes, doing nothing now
[15:46] <Babs> saves on Helium to produce a tower of babel HAB. A tower of Habel, if you will.
[15:47] <HixWork> i read thjat as a tower or barbel, could be slippery
[15:47] <HixWork> though they are vvery strong
[15:48] <Babs> Hixwork. do you actually attempt to type, or just fall on the keyboard periodically and hope that the words come out right?
[15:48] <Babs> thjat? vvery? sheme? sceme?
[15:48] <HixWork> Babs, i was involved in a horrid accident in my childhood and am currently typing with my elbows
[15:48] <Babs> We should get you and eroomde to do a spelling bee at the conference
[15:48] <HixWork> ;p
[15:48] <cm13g09> HixWork: I take it IT are doing some "maintenance"
[15:49] <HixWork> IT are SH atm
[15:49] <Babs> U-B-L-O-C-K-S Ublocks. Oh.
[15:49] <HixWork> *Ublox
[15:49] <HixWork> ;p
[15:49] <HixWork> unless that was a profane typo
[15:50] <HixWork> spelling is so real world
[15:50] <HixWork> though i am a proper grammar nazi in the real world
[15:51] <Babs> Spelling Ublox incorrectly was the point.
[15:51] <HixWork> so i should spell correctly in IRCland
[15:51] <Babs> I shall do a primer on stand up comedy at the conference
[15:51] <HixWork> yes
[15:51] <Babs> using my hefty tracker as the main comedy vehicle
[15:51] <HixWork> will it backfire and lose a wheel?
[15:51] <Babs> whilst LeoBodnar's gets lifted up by a small dust mite or something
[15:52] <HixWork> and can you wear a flower that squirts water please?
[15:52] <Willdude123> I have decided to set up the UKHAS Ofcom Lobbying comittee.
[15:52] <Babs> "That's no flower"
[15:52] <HixWork> heh
[15:52] <Babs> "And thats not water"
[15:53] <HixWork> i believe there are <18s attending Babs. Save that one for the pub
[15:53] <HixWork> though not the barmaid
[15:53] <Willdude123> We will lobby and bribe ofcom officials with free ntx2s in exchange for changing the amateur radio license to allow airborn use and allowing anything up to 10w on 70cm license free.
[15:53] <Babs> barmaids love that kind of thing.
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[15:53] <Willdude123> I still don't get why I can't go to the UKHAS conf.
[15:54] <HixWork> Babs, when you come up with these plans, you are at a level of inibreation as such that the plan is clouded by your brain, which in turn has partially shut down
[15:54] <Babs> Blame HixWork's ASBO Willdude123
[15:54] <HixWork> they never pinned it on me
[15:55] <HixWork> and it does sound like a bank.
[15:55] <HixWork> ASBO Premier account please
[15:56] <HixWork> Babs, I have it. Make it out of graphene
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[16:00] <cyclops> hi
[16:01] <HixWork> hola
[16:01] <cyclops> Caracola
[16:07] <HixWork> did you get the RTTY to work?
[16:08] <cyclops> I tested the software
[16:08] <HixWork> todays word is: eudaemonia. I'm liking this one
[16:08] <cyclops> But I have no antenna
[16:08] <cyclops> neither RTTY trasnmiter
[16:09] <cyclops> I tested the USB dongle :P
[16:09] <cyclops> It received some radio but with a lot of noise
[16:09] <HixWork> ah TX is needed antenna at close range not
[16:09] <cyclops> Waiting for the antenna and tracker for indepth testing
[16:11] <HixWork> has it been posted yet cyclops ?
[16:11] <HixWork> the tracker?
[16:12] <cyclops> Nope
[16:12] <cyclops> Im waiting for Upu
[16:12] <cyclops> to test it
[16:12] <HixWork> ok
[16:12] <cyclops> At least the arduino is on its way home
[16:13] <cyclops> Only balloon and helium left
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[16:17] <Willdude123> HixWork doesn;t have an asbo!
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[16:18] <Willdude123> cyclops: W-FM radio is difficult for the FCD
[16:19] <cyclops> AFAIK It will work well with RTTY
[16:19] <cyclops> So thats enough
[16:19] <Willdude123> Yeah
[16:19] <mfa298> Willdude123: it depends on which FCD people have. The newer Pro+ can do WFM and is a lot more sensitive
[16:20] <Willdude123> It works fine for RTTY, although mine has a smallish bandwidth so rtty is easier than wfm
[16:22] <cyclops> I have the pro+
[16:22] <cm13g09> evening mfa298
[16:23] <mfa298> evening cm13g09
[16:24] <cm13g09> if you haven't already seen
[16:24] <cyclops> As long as RTTY works well, no prob for me
[16:24] <cm13g09> I went tracking station shopping yesterday....
[16:24] <cm13g09> this can only mean bad news :P
[16:24] <cm13g09> (for my wallet)
[16:24] <mfa298> cyclops: I've often used the FCD Pro+ for tracking balloons as do various others
[16:25] <mfa298> cm13g09: I saw some of the comments earlier
[16:25] <cm13g09> hehe
[16:25] <cyclops> mfa298 Perfect, that will be its main task
[16:26] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Guys - Are any of you going to the Waters & Stanton open day in Hockley on 28th Jul?
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[16:29] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:30] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi
[16:30] <cyclops> hi
[16:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> No one going to the Waters & Stanton open day then...
[16:33] <GW8RAK> Are you going to buy a 7100?
[16:34] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'm certainly going to play with one....
[16:34] <craag> G0TDJ_Steve: A little far for me.
[16:34] <G0TDJ_Steve> I just invested in a TS-590S
[16:34] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, I would guess that for a lot of the guys craag
[16:34] <GW8RAK> I'll never be completely homebrew, but I'm trying
[16:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> I started on a 1W homebrew 10MHz TX from PW way back when I was first licenced
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[16:37] <GW8RAK> An IC215 2m rig back in 78
[16:38] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-) Interesting looking box. My first 'proper' ham rig was a '290R - Still have it
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[16:39] <GW8RAK> Always wanted the IC202 SSB rig to go with it, but couldn't afford it at the time
[16:39] <Lunar_Lander> I wanted to try my first interrupt program today, but didn't get to coding due to hardware issues
[16:39] <Lunar_Lander> oscillating opamps and stuff
[16:39] <Lunar_Lander> really pulls your hair
[16:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, I@ve coveted loads of rigs over the years
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[16:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> Lunar_Lander: Last year I was mucking around with rotary encoders and found a nice interrupt routine to drive them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw7awP9PMOQ&feature=share&list=UULg0d7zbkaw9Bjc8K5NvaRg
[16:42] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[16:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> I didn't post the code on the video but I could probably dig it out
[16:43] <G0TDJ_Steve> The red light blinks to show the Arduino doing something and the green LEDs are driven via the rotary encoder by hardware interrupts.
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> yea interrupts aren't the problem now
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> there is some disturbance being coupled into the opamp
[16:44] <G0TDJ_Steve> I did it to find out if I could use it in a project I had on but never included it.
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> so that is purely hardware that needs to be solved now
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[16:52] <Willdude123> Done some testing, got about 95% success with decodes.
[16:53] <Willdude123> I can't use my UBX yet with my BBB, I don't have a soldering iron atm.
[16:54] <Willdude123> I need something to do in the meantime.
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[16:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> Looking forward to Monty and CHEAPO launch on Sunday
[16:59] <Herman-PB0AHX> Hoi to all no launch to day ??
[16:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> Not that I'm aware of, which is a bit of a chame.
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[17:00] <Herman-PB0AHX> ok
[17:00] <craag> Almost reaching a habless 48 hours.. :(
[17:01] <Herman-PB0AHX> maby we can find B6 agn hihihihi
[17:01] <G0TDJ_Steve> I dunno if we can all cope Philip
[17:01] <craag> Yep wake up Leo! You've had your vacation, now back to work (habs)
[17:01] <daveake> I'm habbed out
[17:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'm waiting for parts for my very first launch
[17:02] <Herman-PB0AHX> nice STEVE wen
[17:02] <daveake> 4 in 2.5 weeks
[17:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> Unsure. Some bits coming from China, could take a while LOL. It's only a foil one to begin with though.
[17:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> All on the same day daveake ?
[17:03] <craag> G0TDJ_Steve: Foils are fun :)
[17:03] <daveake> No 4 separate days!
[17:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, I know Philip :D
[17:04] <iain_G4SGX> Ah man, just soldered the ublox to the breakout board. What a pain is the butt. I think its ok but cant see that small, need a mag eyepiece. Never want to have to do that again.
[17:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh, that's good, stretch out the fun
[17:04] <Herman-PB0AHX> nice steve i hope he wil flying and i can trace him
[17:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> I certainly hope so Herman-PB0AHX
[17:04] <daveake> 3 weeks till my next one (well that's the plan)
[17:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> iain_G4SGX: I have all that fun to look forward to
[17:05] <Willdude123> I know, I'll read up on ACKs and the UBX proprietary protocol.
[17:05] <Willdude123> That sound like a good plan?
[17:05] <G0TDJ_Steve> Any learning is good learning
[17:05] <iain_G4SGX> I was always only fair with SMD soldering, now my eyes are older its much harder. Thank god for solder wick.
[17:06] <G0TDJ_Steve> Do you hand solder with an Iron iain_G4SGX
[17:06] <Willdude123> Well, learning your wife cheated on you wouldn't be good learning.
[17:06] <iain_G4SGX> yep.
[17:06] <G0TDJ_Steve> You know what I mean Willdude123 :-)
[17:07] <G0TDJ_Steve> iain_G4SGX: Have you seen the SMD soldering stations on eBay? Around £40, hot air?
[17:09] <iain_G4SGX> G0TDJ_Steve; If i have to do more than one or two i may invest.
[17:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> They're worth every penny!
[17:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> iain_G4SGX: My very first attempt: http://imgur.com/AsMKp67
[17:11] <iain_G4SGX> Nice and neat, nice one.
[17:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> I@m pretty sure a lot of it was to do with the equipment rather than my skill!
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[17:14] <Willdude123> Didn't know the Remote Inventory existed.
[17:14] <Willdude123> Does anyone use it for some purpose?
[17:15] <cyclops> Guys do you usually use one of this for temperature problems? http://goo.gl/ubCu2
[17:15] <iain_G4SGX> Yep, just measure a short. Can't even see it. Damn. Off to maplin 2moro for a mag glass
[17:16] <cyclops> They are pretty cheap, would they work well?
[17:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'm in the same boat iain_G4SGX I wear glasses for close stuff and they're nowhere near good enough. I'll be soldering 0603 sized components on my first payload!
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[17:20] <craag> cyclops: A decent polystyrene box is the usual solution.
[17:20] <cyclops> or sphere :P
[17:20] <craag> Those blankets will probably block GPS and RF, so won't do your tracker good!
[17:20] <cyclops> Oh
[17:20] <cyclops> I didnt consider that
[17:21] <cyclops> Im glad I asked here before ordering
[17:21] <eroomde> you could have an external antenna
[17:21] <eroomde> then, no problems
[17:22] <iain_G4SGX> G0TDJ_Steve: he he, need a pair of those jewellers eyeglasses that flip over when needed. I think I'd like to look too ! Will re-inforce my local reputation for being a crazy techy.
[17:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL :D I saw some of them at the Kempton Radio Rally last time. I WISH I'd have got a pair
[17:23] <cyclops> Well
[17:23] <cyclops> I think Ill consider that after getting all the components
[17:26] <iain_G4SGX> I have an old chum who works writes for PICS for engine management and injection machine temp control hardware. He's got a whole PCB making setup with a UV exposure box. He owes me a few favours! lol Not fired eagle up yet, software to finish forst.
[17:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> Eagle is a very good piece of software - mostly iain_G4SGX
[17:29] <eroomde> it has its quirks
[17:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> I wish you could import vector graphics properly!
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[17:31] <qyx_> G0TDJ_Steve: there is dxf importer in ulp
[17:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hmmm, not tried that. theres another importer I've used. It's awful
[17:32] <SpeedEvil> iain_G4SGX: The price of actual properly manufactured 2 layer PCBs can be remarkably inexpensive.
[17:32] <SpeedEvil> And signle layer boards can be considerably more annoying to use and less flexible in some cases.
[17:33] <G0TDJ_Steve> I got some boards made by OSH Park (.com) and they were beautiful
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[17:35] <Giodell> Hello
[17:35] <iain_G4SGX> As soon as the software is finished I will work out the PCB. Currently mounted a development board onto vero, (using alternate pins cos of differing pin spacing). http://www.g4sgx.org/images/pic.jpg
[17:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cool iain_G4SGX
[17:36] <eroomde> http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/55411631444/spent-4-hours-on-a-bug-only-to-find-it-was-a-misspelled
[17:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> iain_G4SGX: Have you tried AVRs or do you just like PICs?
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[17:38] <iain_G4SGX> Just have previous experience with pics and some of their new ones are quite capable. Mine has onboard USB interface and 128K program space, 4K RAM
[17:39] <iain_G4SGX> I write in assembler mostly also
[17:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nice. I take it that will become a payload at some stage?
[17:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ohhh, nice. 'Proper' coding *ducks*
[17:40] <iain_G4SGX> Yep, just the UBX to work on and its mostly done. The RTTY TX uses interupts and about 1K of program memory
[17:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ah - You may be able to help.. cyclops? Is it you trying to sort RTTY with interrupts?
[17:41] <iain_G4SGX> Was gonna put it into sleep mode between bits while TX'ing also to save power
[17:41] <iain_G4SGX> 20mS is an eternity for a uP to wait for a timer to finish
[17:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> Are you aware of LeoBodnar's B6 exploits? iain_G4SGX
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[17:42] <Giodell> Hell I have just joined
[17:43] <G0TDJ_Steve> Is that a bad thing Giodell?
[17:44] <Giodell> No it was a typo I am very sorry
[17:44] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-) Oh, Hello, you've just joined - Welcome
[17:44] <iain_G4SGX> Yep amazing performance, definitely ground breaking. Those are far beyond me right now, im still struggling with the GPS comms, ori will be when i find this short.
[17:45] <G0TDJ_Steve> iain_G4SGX: I was referring to Leo's 'Night Mode' Prolonged the batt
[17:45] <Giodell> Thanks
[17:46] <G0TDJ_Steve> Giodell: Have you flown anything? (I'm working towards my first launch)
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[17:49] <Giodell> Neat!!! No but me and some mates are thinking about a small one
[17:50] <Giodell> A balloon by the way
[17:51] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nice one Giodell You are in the right place then. I@m a noob myself but there's a lot of VERY knowledgeable people in here.
[17:53] <Giodell> Well G0TDJ_Steve if you now more than the basics you know more than me!!
[17:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-) Only what I've picked up around here. I'm reminded almost daily that I have much to learn. The great thing is, in here you just ask.
[17:55] <iain_G4SGX> G0TDJ: Its fairly simples, all built around bit shifting to the right every 20mS and setting the output to the same as the carry bit.
[17:56] <G0TDJ_Steve> iain_G4SGX: The simplest ideas are the best.
[17:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> iain_G4SGX: Giodell I'm being reminded that I will be required to make the evening meal in a couple of ticks :-) I'll catch you both and everyone else later 73
[17:57] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
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[18:00] <Giodell> Hello again
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[18:47] <Herman-PB0AHX> WHEN is cheapo and Markee fly?
[18:48] <cm13g09> Herman-PB0AHX: CHEAPO is a chrisstubbs creation...
[18:48] <cm13g09> if memory serves me right?
[18:48] <Herman-PB0AHX> ok
[18:48] <cm13g09> I think he's got a couple of flights planned for next week
[18:49] <cm13g09> no idea if anything for this weekend
[18:50] <mfa298> I think CHEAPO was going up as a backup for MONTY over the weekend (tomorrow ?)
[18:50] <cm13g09> ah, possibly
[18:50] <Herman-PB0AHX> let we hope condities are good
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[19:01] <froggy2684_> hi all i'm having trouble using Mirc, does anyone know of a server i can use?
[19:01] <Upu> irc.freenode.net
[19:01] <froggy2684_> thanks i will give that a go
[19:01] <Upu>  /server irc.freenode.net 6667
[19:01] <G0TDJ_AFK> mfa298: cm13g09 Herman-PB0AHX Monty and CHEAPO are flying Sunday
[19:02] <G0TDJ_AFK> Project: Charity Launch Group: Matt Downs Location: Churchill College, Cambridge, England (lat: 52.2135 lon: 0.0964) Payloads: CHEAPO 434.7MHz USB RTTY 50 baud 425Hz shift ASCII-7 no parity 2 stop bits MONTY1 434.075MHz USB RTTY 50 baud 350Hz shift ASCII-8 no parity 1.5 stop bits
[19:03] <froggy2684_> Mirc doesnt seem to want to connect. Havent used irc for years, can anyone recommend a good client
[19:03] <G0TDJ_AFK> nick G0TDJ_Steve
[19:03] <Herman-PB0AHX> G0TDJ_AFK tnx info
[19:03] <G0TDJ_AFK> My pleasure Herman-PB0AHX
[19:04] <mfa298> froggy2684_: if you're on windows a fair number of people use xchat
[19:04] <g4fui_mart> Froggy2684, what platform are you using?
[19:04] <froggy2684_> windows 7
[19:04] <mfa298> for linux I think one of the most popular is irssi
[19:04] <froggy2684_> i could use my Pi i presume
[19:04] <g4fui_mart> I use hexchat, which I quite like (WinXP and 7)
[19:05] <froggy2684_> is hexchat windows or linux
[19:05] <mfa298> for the more experienced linux users irssi with screen is very popular (you can leave it running and connect to it from anywhere)
[19:06] <g4fui_mart> I use windows version of hexchat
[19:06] Nick change: g4fui_mart -> Martin_G4FUI
[19:06] <froggy2684_> sudo apt-get install hexchat
[19:06] <cm13g09> mfa298: Screen + IRSSI = made of win ;)
[19:06] <froggy2684_> woops wrong screen
[19:06] <cm13g09> froggy2684_: it's OK - we do it all the time
[19:07] <cm13g09> especiall those of us screen + IRSSI users
[19:07] <Martin_G4FUI> all over my head, unfortunately ! :(
[19:07] <cm13g09> Martin_G4FUI: sorry ;)
[19:07] <Martin_G4FUI> np
[19:08] <froggy2684_> ok.. 1st question (of many as i am new here)... I tried registering on the site but havent been sent a password, anyone know how long it takes
[19:09] <mfa298> froggy2684_: if that's for the ukhas wiki you need to talk to Upu
[19:09] <mfa298> although the account is only needed if you want to edit the wiki
[19:10] <froggy2684_> oh right thanks, no need to edit wiki, I dont know what i am talking about yet
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[19:11] <G0TDJ_AFK> It's really nice to see this facet of the hobby is growing by the minute
[19:11] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[19:11] <Froggy> ok,, so HEXCHAT worked first time thanks for the suggestion..
[19:12] <Froggy> can anyone recommend a ballon for noobs first attempt
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> Froggy:What's your bidget, and where are you?
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> budget
[19:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'm going to use a Qualtex Foil for my first Froggy
[19:12] <mfa298> Froggy: balloon choice is likely to depend on what you want to send up and how high you want it to go
[19:13] <Froggy> ok, my only criteria at the moment is to get it back....
[19:13] <bertrik> G0TDJ_Steve: what kind of payload (weight-wise) can you lift with a foil balloon?
[19:14] <Froggy> Probably Ardunio, NTX2 to start with
[19:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> That's a good question, and one that I'll let the other guys answer but my payload will probably be around 20-30gramms
[19:14] <Froggy> i am guessing i would lose a foil as i thought they are for distance not height
[19:15] <mfa298> the foil balloons tend to be fairly light payloads and can be more tricky (burst when you want float, and float when you want burst)
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[19:15] <cyclops> hia
[19:15] <cm13g09> Froggy: first law of UKHAS - Launch when the wind is favourable. second law of UKHAS - Never expect your payload back, but much of the time you will get it back....
[19:15] <mfa298> you can do a small arduino with ntx2 and 808 camera on a foil and recover (unless it's stuck in a tree)
[19:16] <cm13g09> mfa298: ah yes, we don't mention the payload up tree incident ;)
[19:16] <Froggy> nice one. Ii was told you couldnt ad a camera to the arduino, obviously thats wrong
[19:16] <cm13g09> lol, the camera is separate to the arduino
[19:16] <mfa298> cm13g09: there are lots of payload up a tree incidents - some have been recovered, some are awaiting recovery
[19:17] <cm13g09> indeed
[19:17] <Froggy> i was going to send the "Pi" up with a camera but changed my mind for the maiden voyage
[19:17] <Froggy> sorry keyboard playing up
[19:17] <cyclops> Froggy the Pi was also my main idea
[19:18] <Froggy> at least with nxt2 i will get a good idea where i lost it
[19:18] <cyclops> But the people here told me it was not as good and easi as it seems
[19:18] <cyclops> easy
[19:18] <mfa298> Froggy: this is one that was done with an arduino and camera. The camera is the smaller box at the top, the arduino is in the bit at the bottom https://www.thecraag.com/CRAAG1_Camera_Launch_26th_November
[19:18] <Froggy> cyclops - great camera on the pi for video and stills
[19:18] <cyclops> Camera module?
[19:19] <mfa298> Pi is possible but the prefered method is to use a pi model a and remove most of the connectors you don't need.
[19:19] <Froggy> yes camera module
[19:19] <cyclops> Is it in stock?
[19:20] <cyclops> When i was looking for it about a week ago
[19:20] <mfa298> I think the pi camera is due back in stock soon.
[19:20] <cyclops> I coundt find it
[19:20] <Martin_G4FUI> Froggy, you could do worse than trawl through the logs from this IRC channel, it contains practically the combined knowledge of the entire universe, if you look hard enough!
[19:20] <cm13g09> mfa298: back in stock at Farnell yesterday#
[19:20] <mfa298> I looked at RS recently and it had it due back in at the end of the month
[19:20] <cm13g09> mfa298: mine turned up on Wednesday or Thursday
[19:20] <Froggy> yes i get my stuff locally, they are a little bit more than RS but its just down the road
[19:21] <mfa298> Froggy: where in the world are you based ?
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[19:21] <Froggy> yorkshire
[19:21] <cyclops> I ended up buying 2 of these http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__17200__HD_Wing_Camera_1280x720p_30fps_5MP_CMOS.html
[19:21] <bertrik> how do you typically fill a foil balloon? fill on the launch spot, or pre-fill it? or do you even buy it pre-filled?
[19:21] <cyclops> As I dont have the time to wait for it to be in stock
[19:21] <mfa298> for foils a lot of people have pre filled them at home - much easier to check the lift inddors
[19:21] <cyclops> Changed my mind and went to arduino
[19:21] <Froggy> this is the guy i use http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raspberry-Pi-Rev-2-0-512-MB-The-latest-UK-made-Model-/110997679563?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item19d7fa2dcb
[19:22] <cyclops> The problem is that it needs much more batts
[19:22] <bertrik> mfa298: because the lift is already so low, and outdoors lift check would be too much affected by wind etc?
[19:22] <daveake> That's expensive
[19:23] <daveake> And don't use a model B
[19:23] <Froggy> this is the link to his cameras and he has them in stock, i think they are £2-£3 more than rs http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raspberry-Pi-Camera-Module-Board-Latest-Model-In-stock-for-immediate-posting-/121144205331?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item1c34c1e013
[19:23] <cm13g09> daveake speaks the truth.....
[19:23] <mfa298> bertrik: that's the idea. for the odd people with a suitable place they'll fill a latex inside as well, but that needs a barn or similar
[19:23] <cyclops> BTW if I use a balloon bigger than the recommended one the flight will be shorter
[19:23] <cyclops> or will I encounter any problem
[19:23] <Froggy> anyone know the link to the store on ukhas
[19:24] <x-f> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/
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[19:24] <Froggy> ta
[19:24] <x-f> np
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[19:25] <daveake> cyclops a larger balloon gives you more altitude or a faster ascent to the same altitude, or some combination of those
[19:25] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
[19:25] <Froggy> I was thinking of these for a first test, Hwoyee 100
[19:25] <cyclops> Im saying it as the balloon I should use 1000g is not in stock, so ill go with the 1200g
[19:26] <daveake> Best thing it so have a play with the burst calculator to see what you can get for your expected payload weight
[19:26] <daveake> Generally the ascent rate should be 5-6m/s
[19:27] <Froggy> any thought son my parachute http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008Z3J2SK/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
[19:27] <daveake> Yes don't get that
[19:28] Action: chrisstubbs hides
[19:28] Action: chrisstubbs may have used that parachute on his last 2 flights
[19:28] <daveake> Go to rocketboy's site (randomsolutions.co.uk) and get a spherachute. They come in different sizes and you should get one that's right for your payload weight. So don't get one till you know roughly what that will be
[19:28] <mfa298> Froggy: that pi cam module is very expensive - looks to be under £20 delivered from RS
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[19:29] <daveake> CPC have them back in stock now
[19:29] <Froggy> mfa298 yes, but the guy is local only a mile from me and i am impulsive lol
[19:29] <daveake> Might get a couple more I only have 4 here :p
[19:30] <cm13g09> daveake: lol
[19:30] <cm13g09> I've only got one
[19:30] <cyclops> BTW its possible to attach more than one cammera to the raspberry?
[19:30] <cm13g09> not as far as I know
[19:30] <Froggy> daveake - its not a good idea is it, or is it because there is only one left and you want it!!
[19:30] <cm13g09> well, not two+ cam modules
[19:31] <cyclops> well I allready ordered my cameras
[19:31] <daveake> er no I use spherachutes they fly well and have the hoops at the top
[19:31] <cyclops> So no step backwards
[19:32] <cyclops> Hwoyee or Totex?
[19:32] <cyclops> Totex much more expensive, why=?
[19:32] <Froggy> spherachtue are pretty reasonable - again as long as you get them back
[19:33] <Froggy> ok next question FunCube or dirt cheap alternative
[19:34] <daveake> totex are more reliable for bursting at the calculated altitude - hwoyee are more variable
[19:34] <daveake> Funcube
[19:34] <cyclops> Yeah
[19:34] <mfa298> +1 for funcube
[19:34] <cyclops> Mi Funcube arrived yesterday
[19:35] <Froggy> i wish i never got rid of my FT-857
[19:35] <cyclops> But go and add yourself to the waiting list
[19:35] <daveake> I should order the new Pro+pro+super or whatever it's called
[19:35] <Froggy> i have just had email that it is ready to order
[19:35] <cyclops> nice
[19:35] <mfa298> if you want a real rig the ft-817 is popular (and gives you hf-70cms)
[19:35] <cyclops> Mine was shipped 8Am the 18, by 7PM it was here in spain at my door
[19:36] <cyclops> The same day i mean
[19:36] <Froggy> would like that but the wife wont let me, need to sell my kenwood first
[19:37] <mfa298> if it's a kenwood with 70cms ssb then you can use that for recieving (depends on what you have)
[19:37] <Froggy> no its the 2m/70cms TMD-710 I use it for aprs
[19:38] <Martin_G4FUI> I find my FCD Pro+ is useful for tracking HABs
[19:39] <cyclops> 1mm Nylon cord is enough isnt it?
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[19:39] <Martin_G4FUI> The main advantage is the panoramic display the SDR top end software gives you
[19:41] <Martin_G4FUI> But it's horses for courses, everyone will have their own favourite piece of kit and favourite way of doing things
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[19:43] <Froggy> how do you chaange your name in hexchat
[19:43] <Martin_G4FUI> slash nick newname
[19:43] Nick change: Froggy -> testing
[19:44] Nick change: testing -> Steve_2E0VET
[19:44] <Steve_2E0VET> easy when you know how
[19:46] <Martin_G4FUI> There's a whole bunch of commands, just Google "IRC Commands" and see what pops up!
[19:48] <SpeedEvil> Still no CTCP STABINFACE
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, evening, didn't try out the interrupts today, as we were struggling with the electrometer, but I had a good read on them
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:49] Nick change: g4klx -> Jonathan_G4KLX
[19:49] <cyclops> Upu no photos today? :P
[19:49] <eroomde> the electrometer looks like an interesting instrument
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> yea, but the opamp on it is swinging like nothing, that is really strange
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> maybe it is because it is built on protoboard
[19:50] Action: SpeedEvil wishes you could get more than just a vector from electrometers.
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> but we don't know yet
[19:50] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: Do you know what 'guard rings' mean?
[19:51] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: and why you might wire an electrometer with some pins sticking out of the board, and wired directly?
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> yes, and actually there is a line called GUARD on the circuit diagram, but when we hook that up to ground it does not eliminate all swinging
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> how do you mean your last question?
[19:51] <SpeedEvil> Do you have a circuit diagram, and a picture of your construction?
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/j/m/l/ji1rd83-ktleb7-l321/ElectrometerCircuitDiagram.png
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> a photo will take about 2 minutes
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> hang on
[19:53] <craag> heh that looks familiar
[19:53] <Martin_G4FUI> don't forget to give it a soak in the fixer! :)
[19:53] <craag> I'm building one of those for soton uni spaceflight :)
[19:54] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if there is much point in the FET, with modern opamps.
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> the FET is supposed to short out the system in intervals to reset it
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> well here it is http://s.gullipics.com/image/d/f/l/5yva41-ktonh5-jcjl/IMG0599.jpeg
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> don't be irritated by the FETs at the lower right, they are disconnected now
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> the whole FET stuff moved to the top right
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> http://www.analog.com/en/all-operational-amplifiers-op-amps/operational-amplifiers-op-amps/ad8602/products/product.html - 200 femptoamp offset current $.44
[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:57] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> I'm too tired to look at this right now I discover, it's not making sense. Sorry
[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> no problem
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> my prof and I sat at it the whole afternoon testing connections
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> I know I found an awesome electrometer resource on ADs site before
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> I think one source of fault is http://s.gullipics.com/image/0/8/a/5yva41-ktoom1-xt20/IMG0600.jpeg
[19:58] <craag> oh god...
[19:58] <craag> And I thought the layout on the top was bad enough!
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> SpeedEvil, could it be http://www.analog.com/en/obsolete/ad515a/products/product.html ?
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[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> oh no, says obsolete, sorry
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.analog.com/en/all-operational-amplifiers-op-amps/operational-amplifiers-op-amps/ad549/products/product.html
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> In general - I'd say get a proper guard-ringed board made.
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> Or lift the sensitive traces off the board.
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> And put a shield over it.
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> guard ring means a ground plane around the critical components on the PCB I just read?
[20:00] <Maxell> Is there a tool you guys use to calculate at what altitude there will be line of sight?
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> Guard ring is not ground.
[20:01] <Maxell> derp http://www.calculatoredge.com/electronics/lineofsight.htm
[20:01] <chrisstubbs> Upu, what was that cheap PC website you reccomended a while back?
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> It is a output, held at the input voltage by feedback, so that there is no leakage to ground.
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: Also - have you washed the board?
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:01] <mfa298> Maxell: you could get some idea of what's possible with a fresnel zone calculator.
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> not yet
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> Conductances can be significant.
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> stupid question: water? alcohol?
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[20:02] <craag> Lunar_Lander: What's the issue with it? I'm building an identical one at the moment and it seems to work (although I haven't done much calibration of it)
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> ok we had it hooked up on the oscilloscope, and when it is not resetting, there is a wave all the time, that is what I saw
[20:02] <Maxell> mfa298: ok, chekking it out
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[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> my prof said that the opamp always seems to hang at the top or bottom limit
[20:03] <craag> Hmm so it's picking up some other signal.
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:04] <craag> I'd say the layout was the first thing to fix, try to keep the output as physically far away as possible from the input.
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> http://www.analog.com/library/analogdialogue/archives/43-09/EDch%2012%20pc%20issues.pdf - you may find page 17 useful
[20:04] <mfa298> Maxell: the one I've used you put in the height at both ends and the distance and it will indicate how far above the ground level the signal goes, but with some experimenting you can get an idea of how high a balloon needs to be for a given distance
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> that was reduced when we hooked up Ground to the line you can see labelled with N$20
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> And other pages - search for 'guard ring'
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> ok, thanks
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> but still we had something like a line on the zero line with bulbs along it
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> and these bulbs were like oscillation centres so to speak
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> trying to explain that better
[20:05] <craag> I've built mine on stripboard and it seems to work. Although I have well-grounded tracks next to all Hi-z signal lines.
[20:05] <craag> Yeah, a standing wave
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:05] <craag> so a single frequency
[20:05] <craag> what frequency?
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> good question, bad that I didn't take notes
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> I think we had the scope at 50 ms maybe
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> and there were several of these visible
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> so I can't be conclusive on that
[20:07] <craag> Could it have been 50hz?
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> yea we were thinking about that
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> I have to show you the test rig
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> please don't laugh
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/2/i/3/5yva41-ktoorg-y9qu/IMG0596.jpeg
[20:07] <craag> In which case, sort your grounds. Star-ground, no loops, etc.
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:08] <craag> Heh nice, I haven't even got a testing rig yet.
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> well thanks :)
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> my prof said that the electrodes should be much further down
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> as he showed when he laid his hand on the top of the box, it already went nuts
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> and I understood that
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> I just had it at the height at the moment because of the wiring and the desk
[20:09] <Maxell> mfa298: bummer, It needs to go atleast 45 km up in the sky to get line of sight from revspace' locatien
[20:09] <craag> Yeah, I've just waved some wires near mine and seen a change.
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[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> now another crazy thing
[20:10] <craag> I'll calibrate it properly when we've got a flight sorted (currently est. October)
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> You absolutely must cover it.
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> For example, a seive can work well
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> grounded metal
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> I have to tell you something though
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> now it is crazier than before, now that I moved the FETs up there
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> the scope is at zero, then you connect the batteries and suddenly the scope jumps to +0.5 V
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[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> and the reset now shows as a jump to 4V instead of 3V as before
[20:11] <craag> :/
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> and if you now crank up the condenser voltage to create a field, the line goes to negative voltages!
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> that thing is nuts
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> re-design time!
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[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> craag, do you have a photo of yours by any chance?
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[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> SpeedEvil, thank you
[20:15] <craag> Lunar_Lander: Not at the moment.
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> so the guard is supposed to loop below the IC and then run parallel to the input line?
[20:16] <Steve_2E0VET> anyone know where i can get scripts for the ardunio and NXT2
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> if you look at figure 12.15
[20:16] <eroomde> Steve_2E0VET: the wiki
[20:16] <eroomde> but really it's worth writing yourself
[20:17] <Steve_2E0VET> oh ok thanks
[20:17] <eroomde> as emphasised on the wiki
[20:17] <craag> Lunar_Lander: When are you planning to launch?
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[20:17] <Steve_2E0VET> i would if i knew how to do it, what language is it in
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah there is still some time, actually this is to be a sub-payload on a balloon by the PTB (germany's national physics lab)
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> they want to launch August 6 roundabout
[20:18] <craag> Ah ok, I won't be doing any more work on mine before then.
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:18] <craag> Will be interested to hear how you get on!
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> I am thinking if I should make a new board
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> especially as I discussed with ed yesterday how to synch the reset with taking a reading at the arduino
[20:19] <craag> I know very little about the underlying physics of it, but was given a schematic by the physicists and just built it how I thought best.
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> that we should scrap the oscillator but rather have a transistor turning on the OpAmp
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> and thus arduino commanding the reset
[20:20] <craag> Yep, new board is a good idea, at least redo the layout to keep signals as isolated and short as possible.
[20:20] <craag> Yeah we're driving the reset FETs from the microcontroller.
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> do you have your schematic at hand?
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[20:23] <craag> It's one in a paper, with a few minor tweaks, do you have AIP journal access?
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[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, let me guess
[20:24] <Adam012> Does anyone know how to contact jcoxon? I've tried email but no luck. I'm trying to return a Yaesu FT-790R that he loaned us.
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> Harrison 2001?
[20:24] <Adam012> Thank you!
[20:25] <craag> Lunar_Lander: Harrison 2009
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[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> ah that one
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> yeah we built it based on the 2001 one, but took the double jFET from 2009
[20:25] <craag> Ah ok.
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> also ripped out the PLL FM thing and put in a direct link to the Arduino ADC
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[20:27] <craag> Matt's got a decent ADC which we're using for this flight.
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> what is your CPU?
[20:28] <Steve_2E0VET> any tips on launch sites will i be able to launch from my house?
[20:28] <Adam012> Does anyone have any tips about settings for the Canon A560 to prevent over exposure? What image processing do you do?
[20:28] <Upu> Oh btw http://i.imgur.com/8baqCk9.jpg LMT2 + 16 bit DAC = ezmode DOMEX16 (or any other)
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:29] <craag> CPU will probably be POP which I think is avr328. But we've got a SPI-controlled ADC for this and a bunch of other high-precision sensors.
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> at least this did not happen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-efQbRVZrs
[20:31] <craag> Upu: Nice, what DAC did you use?
[20:32] <Upu> LTC2606
[20:34] <craag> :) Would be good to see some on up+down flights. Chasecar tracking would suddenly be v easy!
[20:34] <craag> As if in tracking from the chasecar.
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[20:39] <Upu> might test fly it in the next few weeks
[20:39] <craag> :D
[20:40] <Upu> needs a GPS on it
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[20:41] <cyclops> Hey Upu , no photos today? :P
[20:41] <Willdude123> Hello
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[20:42] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/Y7qZ7ia.jpg
[20:42] <Upu> Leo wannabe in the foreground
[20:42] <cyclops> Only radio?
[20:43] <Upu> top one is a LMT2 with a DAC on it (may find its way on Habduino at some point)
[20:44] <cyclops> nice
[20:44] <Willdude123> G0TDJ_AFK: Giodell, who came on earlier is one of my school friends.
[20:44] <Willdude123> I was afk though.
[20:44] <mattbrejza> does the bottom one attach to a AAA in a nice way?
[20:45] <G0TDJ_AFK> Oh OK. Sounds like a nice bloke :-)
[20:45] <Upu> yeah mattbrejza keystone clips on the underside
[20:45] <mattbrejza> :)
[20:45] <Willdude123> He's in the year below me.
[20:46] <Upu> however need to work out how to make the radio work now
[20:46] <mattbrejza> heh
[20:46] <mattbrejza> not the same as teh rfm IC i take it
[20:46] <Upu> no
[20:46] <Upu> SI4460
[20:46] <chrisstubbs> Herman-PB0AHX, just saw you were asking about cheapo earlier
[20:49] <mattbrejza> hmm still need to solder up my latest tracker
[20:49] <mattbrejza> had the boards for almost 2 months now :/
[20:50] <Upu> cc whatever it is ?
[20:50] <mattbrejza> yea
[20:50] <mattbrejza> http://i.imgur.com/JL9Y0Is.jpg
[20:50] <mattbrejza> one step up from a pico
[20:50] <mattbrejza> (cc430)
[20:51] <Upu> not far from it :) SD card ?
[20:51] <mattbrejza> yep
[20:52] <Upu> get it soldered :)
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, I read up on how to SMD solder
[20:52] <mattbrejza> give me another month maybe :P
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> when you wold solder an MAX-6 for example
[20:53] <mattbrejza> all be it a 2-3hr job max
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> I read you have to solder one pad for fixing the orientation
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> and then you put on a solder blob on multiple pins and then use the solder wick to clean up
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[20:55] <Upu> something like that
[20:55] <Willdude123> G0TDJ_AFK: I think you'll like him more than me, he has a hell of a lot more patience.
[20:56] <G0TDJ_AFK> Willdude123: Patience can be learned, trust me on that one
[20:56] <mikestir> Upu: what boost converter did you use? one of the TI ones?
[20:56] <mattbrejza> Lunar_Lander: if you have a fine enough tip you can solder each pin individually and avoid bridging
[20:56] <Upu> LTC3606
[20:56] <Upu> err
[20:56] <mattbrejza> helps to get a flux pen and sone really fine solder
[20:57] <eroomde> especially on something with big fat pads like the ublox
[20:57] <Upu> LTC3526
[20:57] <Upu> bit of a pig to solder
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[20:58] <mattbrejza> DFN?
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:58] <mikestir> yeah. I was looking at tps61028. has an LDO for when vin>vout
[20:58] <mikestir> that's QFN so not quite so bad
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, thanks for the tip
[20:58] <mattbrejza> it really helps when you have the right tools
[20:58] <Upu> yes Matt
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> I just began reading the sparkfun SMD tutorial, maybe they mention that later on as well
[20:58] <Upu> the GND pad is really small
[20:58] <mfa298> Willdude123: it sounds like you just need to plan what you're trying to do better and work towards small goals (e.g. see the nmea strings, find the strings you want, pull out the lat and long) if you treat each of those as a goal you'll realise that you're making progress.
[20:58] <Upu> a 0.3mm via is too big
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> the method with the wick was the first one
[20:58] <Willdude123> mfa298: Yah
[20:59] <Willdude123> I came up with a plan of attack earlier.
[20:59] <mattbrejza> wick probably wont be needed for the ublox, the pins are quite big
[20:59] <cm13g09> daveake: around?
[20:59] <mikestir> Upu: did you hand-solder by tinning the pad and sticking the iron up through a via then?
[20:59] <mattbrejza> also you dont want to apply too much heat to it
[20:59] <cyclops> Upu , I saw the HAbd test on space near.us how did it went?
[20:59] <daveake> might be
[20:59] <Upu> very well cyclops
[20:59] <cm13g09> daveake: have you had much exposure to raspivid?
[20:59] <Upu> mikestir generally with the TPS62100 chips
[20:59] <daveake> not much
[20:59] <cyclops> Im glad
[21:00] <cm13g09> ok
[21:00] <Upu> put some paste on the pad, tack it down with the iron
[21:00] <Upu> then solder through the bottom
[21:00] <cm13g09> thought I'd ask
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[21:00] <daveake> Just enough to run a single video recording in a recent flight
[21:00] <Upu> if its shorting any where a quick whack with the hot air sorts it
[21:00] <cm13g09> ok
[21:00] <Upu> however I have an oven now
[21:00] <cm13g09> because I'm trying to punt its output down netcat
[21:00] <mattbrejza> proper oven or toaster one?
[21:00] <cm13g09> and raspivid keeps dying....
[21:00] <cm13g09> with no messages ;)
[21:00] <mikestir> last time I used a QFN was CC1100, hand soldered like that. not fun but ok
[21:01] <Upu> Thanks to G0TDJ_AFK https://www.dropbox.com/s/nhple52zknjkc0i/DA-20130719-01%20-%20Anthony%20Stirk%20-%20Habduino%20Logo_RGB_300.jpg
[21:01] <cyclops> Looks good
[21:01] <Guest10440> As for starting out with arduino, do you recommend purchasing just the microcontroller or their starter pack?
[21:01] <G0TDJ_AFK> My pleasure Tony - Did you get my e-mail about the B&W version?
[21:02] <Upu> I did looks great again
[21:02] <daveake> cm13g09 I'd email James Hughes at Broadcom about it
[21:02] <daveake> As he wrote it
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> craag, but I am very happy about the ICs
[21:03] <G0TDJ_AFK> Upu: Thanks - Would you like me to update the mono versions then?
[21:03] <cm13g09> daveake: oh hang on....
[21:03] <Upu> sure if you have time I do appreciate it
[21:03] <cm13g09> it probably helps to be root....
[21:03] <G0TDJ_AFK> Of course - I'll either do it later or tomorrow morning
[21:03] <craag> Lunar_Lander: LMC6042?
[21:03] <G0TDJ_AFK> Just catching up on a bit of TV :D
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> yeah and the others
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> imagine being in 1957
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> one sec
[21:04] <daveake> even I wasn't around then
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> having to make it like that http://s.gullipics.com/image/s/l/g/5yva41-ktoros-umsx/Bildschirmfotovom20130719230310.png
[21:04] <craag> haha
[21:04] <craag> You're talking to the guys with 3 pieces of Valve kit on his desk..
[21:04] <craag> *guy
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[21:05] <daveake> :)
[21:05] <daveake> Used to repair valve radios for fun when I was young
[21:05] <craag> 2x HF rigs with valve PAs, and a 1KW HF linear :)
[21:05] <daveake> :)
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> on EEVBlog, Dave had a old multimeter from yugoslavia
[21:06] <craag> Although linear isn't mine, it's my club's. But it lives on my desk, plugged into my rig :P
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> and someone said that like in Serbia is one of the last factories making tubes
[21:06] <mfa298> need a valve based 70cms rig for real tracking :P
[21:06] <mfa298> might need some more batteries for that though
[21:07] <craag> mfa298: Even more than an 897..
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, so repairing radios as a kid makes big people obviously
[21:07] <eroomde> lots of calories in those broken valves
[21:07] <daveake> no, chocolate makes big people
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> I mean big like in great figures in the world
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> like Feynman also did radio repairs
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[21:08] <daveake> Don't think I'm quite in his leaguie
[21:08] <daveake> can't even type
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> no but half of europe knows you now because of your ballooning skills :)
[21:09] <daveake> That's still nothing to do with actual skill
[21:09] <daveake> That's to do with combining two "cool" things at the right time
[21:10] <daveake> I may have done some moderately clever things in my time but that wasn't one of them
[21:13] <mattbrejza> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23379930 that poor bloke....
[21:14] <daveake> They're the first down the birth canal
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[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> let me guess before I look
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> she finally gave birth?
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> eagle has landed?
[21:15] <mattbrejza> not quite
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:15] <fsphil> that's quite sad
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> like people sleeping in front of shops to be first for a Sale or so?
[21:15] <mattbrejza> also im just supprised tht you can still boat from liverpool to london
[21:16] <eroomde> canals are amazing
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> do you know where Osnabruck is?
[21:16] <eroomde> germany
[21:16] <fsphil> over that way
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> like between two mountain ridges
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> in the middle of NW germany
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> still we got a harbour
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> also cause of a canal
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> proof https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafen_%28Osnabr%C3%BCck%29
[21:18] <fsphil> [citation needed]
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/tools/FM147/CL1794/SC961/SS1533/PF258513?ecmp=pf258513_fp_mcunl_jul2013
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[21:20] <mattbrejza> laziness ftw
[21:20] <mattbrejza> tbh im more impressed with thte matlab->verilog one, i wonder how well it does though
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> they also have an stm32 java runtime and gui stuff...
[21:22] <mattbrejza> still better than arduino
[21:23] <eroomde> they have to spoil the nice things
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> mattbrejza: true
[21:24] <mattbrejza> can the stm32f4 execute java byte code though?
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> nope
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> no jazell
[21:25] <mattbrejza> mm, wouldnt be so bad if it had jazell
[21:25] <Laurenceb_> cortex Mx is thumb2 only
[21:26] <mattbrejza> i have a booklet with all that sorta info in it somewhere
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: any good with n00b level state?
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> im trying to fit a straight line to data (dont laugh :P)
[21:27] <mattbrejza> excel?
[21:27] <mattbrejza> :P
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> lolz
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> writing it in c for an stm32 and i realise i dont know how to do it with proper statistics
[21:28] <mikestir> least squares fit
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> each point also has an error covar
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> yeah sure
[21:28] <mattbrejza> just compile the matlab function using that ST thing you linked to
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> lolz
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> i can do the fit, thats easy
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> but how do i estimate the error on my gradient fit?
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> i can find the error from points to line...
[21:29] <Laurenceb_> but what about the standard error on my fit gradient?
[21:29] <mattbrejza> sounds like a-level stats (which i have forgotten)
[21:29] <mikestir> don't you just want standard deviation, or variance or something
[21:29] <mikestir> ages since I've done that
[21:29] <Laurenceb_> i tihnk itll be rather more complex than that..
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[21:30] <Laurenceb_> i mean i can see it intuitively
[21:30] <Laurenceb_> and i could probably brute force it
[21:30] <eroomde> i would have thought you're just want the mean-squared error
[21:30] <Laurenceb_> but theres got to be a nice matrix technique for it
[21:30] <eroomde> the best fit model is whichever straight line minimises that
[21:30] <Laurenceb_> sure
[21:30] <Laurenceb_> ive got that part working nicely
[21:31] <Laurenceb_> but i need error covar on my gradient
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[21:35] <Laurenceb_> i guess its actually weighted least squares
[21:35] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: Polynomial quadratic regression using 128 bit fixed decimal point written from scratch in 16-bit dsPIC assembly
[21:36] <Laurenceb_> as the covar matrix for my data is diagonal
[21:36] <Laurenceb_> erm yes
[21:36] <LeoBodnar> Work of a madman
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[21:36] <LeoBodnar> I.e. mine
[21:36] <Laurenceb_> lolz
[21:36] <Laurenceb_> ok can you tell me how to estimate the error?
[21:37] <Laurenceb_> ideally i'd have a phd supervisor to help me with such issues... but he hasnt even turned up for work for a month
[21:37] Action: Laurenceb_ has had entire building to himself for 4 days
[21:38] <LeoBodnar> Is he a she?
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> hope
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> erm
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> nope
[21:38] <LeoBodnar> They are dying from alcoholism
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> lol
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> i need to get this finished and get a proper job :(
[21:39] <Laurenceb_> to put this in context, im working in a building where there are supposed to be 30 people
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[21:40] <eroomde> sorry was away
[21:40] <eroomde> well, a lot of linear regression techniques give you a covariance matrix
[21:41] <eroomde> generalised least squares forex
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> oh
[21:41] <eroomde> or do you want the covarience matrix for the data?
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> thats how gls differs
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> i have covar for the data
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[21:42] <eroomde> ok. well that's presumably telling you what your line wants to be too
[21:42] <eroomde> so there's a technique called principal component analysis
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[21:42] <eroomde> you take the eigenvectors of the covariance matrix of the dataset
[21:42] <eroomde> it assumes they're all orhtogonal
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> how does pca help me?
[21:43] <eroomde> but basically the biggest eigenvector and corresponding value is the principle axis your data is sitting on
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> i trying to fit absorbers to spectrometer data :P
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> my absorbers are fixed absorbance vectors
[21:43] <eroomde> well, it gives you the line you want (i have not been following so sorry if i misunderstand)
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> yeah i dont think thats my problem
[21:44] <eroomde> but with that you can get the straight line to describe the data
[21:44] <Laurenceb_> but it might be useful... hadnt thought of using pca
[21:44] <eroomde> and you can easily get an MSE value for the model fitted to the data
[21:44] <Laurenceb_> i might be able to assume an absorber and see how its spectrum is distorted by scattering using pca
[21:44] <Laurenceb_> but thats another problem
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> craag, do you have a project website?
[21:46] <Laurenceb_> http://www.gnu.org/software/octave/doc/interpreter/Linear-Least-Squares.html
[21:46] <Laurenceb_> yeah looks like gls will do exactly what i want, thanks
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> :)
[21:47] <craag> Lunar_Lander: Not with any info on the electrometer at the moment.
[21:48] <craag> And I don't think the spaceflight soc have a general website for launches yet.
[21:48] <Adam012> Has anyone tried to apply the sunny 16 rule to the canon a560? Is it possible to set aperture/shutter speed to any degree using CHDK?
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> yea would have been interested in a general page
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:51] Action: craag adds it to the list of stuff to sort out before the freshers bunfight.
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> wait no
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> gls doesnt solve the problem
[21:52] <mattbrejza> website was george's job so hasnt been done...
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> it gives me errors on values in a new vector space
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> no errors on the fit vector
[21:53] <Willdude123> Hi Laurenceb_
[21:53] <Willdude123> How's the thesis coming along?
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> slowly...
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> it'd help if there was some supervision.. or anyone else in the building for that matter :P
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[21:56] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: what you're missing is that this is the setup for a zombie movie.
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[22:02] <Laurenceb_> y = x*b + e
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> ^i need the covar matrix for b
[22:04] <Laurenceb_> hmm maybe this?
[22:04] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Errors-in-variables_model
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[22:08] <cm13g09> craag: ping
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[22:17] <Adam012> Does anyone have a number for James?
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[22:21] <craag> cm13g09: pong
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[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> craag, thanks again for helping
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> and thanks to SpeedEvil too
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[22:35] <cyclops> hi
[22:36] <craag> np LL, hope it works out for you!
[22:40] <G0TDJ_AFK> Anyone know if there's anything launching tomorrow?
[22:40] <craag> G0TDJ_AFK: Yeah steve is launching.
[22:40] <G0TDJ_AFK> Oh? Are there details anywhere?
[22:40] <craag> Details are on the mailing list
[22:41] <G0TDJ_AFK> OK I'll check it out. If I can find the link....
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[22:46] <Willdude123> G0TDJ_AFK: Are you rea
[22:46] <Willdude123> lly afk?
[22:46] <G0TDJ_AFK> No, I should change my nick
[22:46] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[22:46] <G0TDJ_Steve> I forget
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[23:00] <Willdude123> G0TDJ_Steve: If you see Giodell again when I'm not here, I'd be quite grateful if you could explain a bit about what IRC is and how you use it to him.
[23:00] <Willdude123> He's a bit new to it.
[23:00] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, no problem Willdude123
[23:00] <Steve_2E0VET> any tips on launch sites?
[23:00] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'll help all I can. I haven't used it for donkeys years :-)
[23:01] <Willdude123> :-)
[23:01] <Willdude123> The frightening thing is he's in the year below me and has a higher grade in science.
[23:02] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: If you're anywhere near cambridge, you can ask CUSF nicely to use theirs.
[23:02] <craag> They have a permanent NOTAM.
[23:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-) If I may quote Liam Neeson from Star Wars Episode I 'There's always a bigger fish'
[23:03] <Steve_2E0VET> noo i'm yorkshire, just wondered if i would be accepted to launch in the back garden
[23:03] <craag> Ah ok, well as long as there aren't any flight paths around, don't see why not.
[23:03] <craag> DM has the final say of course though.
[23:04] <Steve_2E0VET> DM??
[23:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> Dungeon Master LOL
[23:04] <mattbrejza> daily mail
[23:05] <craag> Don't actually know his name, but he's the guy at the CAA? who grants/denies NOTAMs for balloons.
[23:05] <Steve_2E0VET> lol i think we have a few here.. are there any sites that tell you the flight paths
[23:05] <Willdude123> Finished school for summer noww.
[23:05] <G0TDJ_Steve> Debbie McGee
[23:06] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh of course, it'll be Dylan Moran
[23:06] <Willdude123> The whole level
[23:06] <Willdude123> system is stupid
[23:07] <Willdude123> I was predicted 6b in english for the end of y9, I got 7c in y7 and 7a this year
[23:08] <mattbrejza> and youll be a 5 at the end of a 7 week break
[23:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'd hate to think what I am in English now!
[23:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> We should have to do adult exams every 10 years to see how bad we've got LOL
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[23:11] <cyclops> Upu one question
[23:11] <Willdude123> Well, I kept the 7c from year 7 up.
[23:11] <Willdude123> After last summer, I got the same grade again.
[23:11] <cyclops> Its possible that all the info trasmited trough RTTY gets logged to a local SD car?
[23:11] <Willdude123> I don't think it goes above 7a
[23:12] <Willdude123> cyclops, why wouldn't it be?
[23:12] <Guest10440> Do you guys recommend getting the arduino starter kit or would just the arduino uno be suitable?
[23:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> cyclops: I'm building one of chrisstubbs boards and he tells me it does that.
[23:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> For what purpose Guest10440 ?
[23:13] <cyclops> which is the chrisstubbs board?
[23:13] <cyclops> Also habduino?
[23:13] <Willdude123> cyclops, using habduino or something?
[23:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> He designed it himself cyclops
[23:13] <cyclops> yea Willdude123
[23:13] <Willdude123> Well, it's possible to do it yourself.
[23:14] <Willdude123> Idk if it has an sd card.
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[23:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> Guest10440: If you have a few components like LEDs resistors capacitors transistors etc. hanging around, you may as well just get an Uno
[23:14] <Guest10440> G0TDJ_Steve :Mainly to be a flight computer for a balloon. I know I would have to purchase jumper wires and resistors, but I'm not sure if I want everything in the starter kit.
[23:14] <cyclops> well im waiting for him to have it ready to ship
[23:15] <craag> Guest10440: Have you worked with the arduino before?
[23:15] <craag> or any PICs, or similar?
[23:15] <Guest10440> unfortunately not
[23:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> Guest10440: Probably best to get a bare board and build up the components for a payload, although you might like to wait for upu to finish his habduino
[23:15] <cyclops> Like me
[23:15] <cyclops> XD
[23:16] <craag> In which case I'd suggest getting the starter kit, and having a go with all the tutorials on using an arduino before you start building the hab paylaod.
[23:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, seconded craag
[23:16] <craag> eg blinking leds, then reading inputs, etc.
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[23:16] <craag> It'll make it soooo much easier when you want to build the payload.
[23:17] <Guest10440> Yeah, probably a good idea
[23:17] <Willdude123> I'm upset a bit about the habduino because when I build my own traclers,it will feel less worthwhile.
[23:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> Willdude123: If it does the job then what's the problem?
[23:18] <eroomde> building a tracker has a lot of value
[23:18] <Guest10440> I also plan to get a amateur radio license so it seems I've got quite a lot to learn
[23:18] <eroomde> the learning is worth far more than paying one hobbyist to do what everyone else does already for you
[23:18] <craag> +1 for amateur radio license!
[23:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> Guest10440: Well, foundation isn't too heavy
[23:18] <craag> yeah foundation is easy really.
[23:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> Guest10440: There's lots of help available.
[23:19] <Willdude123> Guest10440: Are you planning on aprs?
[23:19] <Steve_2E0VET> +2 for amateur radio licence
[23:19] <Guest10440> yeah
[23:19] <craag> Guest10440: Which country are you in?
[23:19] <Guest10440> United States
[23:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ah! OK Novice isn't too heavy!
[23:20] <craag> Ah cool
[23:20] <G0TDJ_Steve> Guest10440: Are you a member of your local radio club?
[23:20] <Guest10440> No, I'm basically starting from scratch
[23:20] <craag> Yeah there's a fair few US Habbers that hand around on here (arko, KT5T_K, etc)
[23:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> Well I'd advise you to find your local club and join
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[23:21] <arko> \o/ USA
[23:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> They'll give you LOADS of help
[23:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey arko lurking LOL
[23:21] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: looks like i need to copy this
[23:21] <Laurenceb_> http://octave.sourceforge.net/statistics/function/regress.html
[23:21] <eroomde> coolio
[23:21] <Laurenceb_> also it can invert spectroscopy data directly
[23:22] <Laurenceb_> there goes all my code :P
[23:22] <arko> come to LA if you want to see some habs and habs being built
[23:22] <Laurenceb_> just input basis functions of linear ramps in absorber molarity
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> so rows=wavelengths columns=time
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> i can haz PhD
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> with single line codebase....
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[23:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> Right, time to find my pillow - Good Night Guys - See you in the (UK) Morning
[23:23] <Guest10440> I hear there are classes near my area for getting a license, but do you know of any websites that might help?
[23:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> www.arrl.org
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> basically atm i've got infrared through end of finger
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[23:24] <Laurenceb_> then a little inflating band that restricts venous blood return for ~4 seconds
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> i model then inflowing blood as a linear ramp and convert to flow volume
[23:26] <Willdude123> Laurenceb_: In plain english, what is your thesis on?
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> blood flow
[23:26] <Willdude123> k
[23:26] <Willdude123> nighy
[23:26] <Willdude123> nighr
[23:26] <Willdude123> nigjt
[23:26] <arko> thgin
[23:27] <Willdude123> night damn goftware feyboard
[23:28] <Willdude123> o gate it
[23:30] <arko> haha
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[23:50] <cyclops> *
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[00:00] --- Sat Jul 20 2013