highaltitude.log.20130718

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[01:09] <DL7AD> why has been B-6 removed so fast while BUZZ and ZURG are still displayed on the map?
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[01:11] <mfa298> Buzz and Zurg were flown this evening (recovered a couple of hours ago)
[01:12] <mfa298> I think B-6 was removed as the number of data points made it slow to load the map
[01:14] <mfa298> there's some writeup and screen shots of map etc at http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-6/
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[01:17] <DL7AD> mfa298 thx for explain the reason. i already saw the link. i like that report :)
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[05:30] <DL7AD> good evening
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[05:33] <arko> evening
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[05:37] <x-f> good unusually-quiet-morning
[05:37] <Upu> mainly because everyone was up till 1am recovering payloads from fields
[05:39] <x-f> yeah, i read the backlog
[05:39] <zyp> good afternoon
[05:39] <x-f> Dave said he doesn't land in the trees all the time :)
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[05:40] <x-f> zyp, aren't you from Norway?
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[05:41] <zyp> yep, but currently I'm in Korea
[05:42] <x-f> oh, nice
[05:42] <arko> cool!
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[06:47] <ibanezmatt13> Good morning
[06:47] <arko> morning
[06:48] <ibanezmatt13> Did Zurg just cut out?
[06:51] <UpuWork> yes
[06:51] <UpuWork> I'm sure we'll have a debrief when Dave wakes up
[06:51] <UpuWork> which given he probably went to bed about 4am
[06:51] <UpuWork> might be a while
[06:51] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[06:52] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: When we were talking about Yagi's to use to find the tracker once it's on the ground, which would you recomend? Not something too big that it won't fit in the car
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[06:58] <UpuWork> well I would recommend a Arrow II Portable however
[06:59] <UpuWork> http://www.arrowantennas.com/arrowii/440-5ii.html
[06:59] <UpuWork> expensive
[06:59] <Darkside> mm i love mine
[06:59] <Darkside> i have a dual-band arrow
[06:59] <UpuWork> yes they are amazing
[07:00] <ibanezmatt13> I'd better get one then :)
[07:00] <ibanezmatt13> I'll check Radio World
[07:00] <UpuWork> well you can get a cheaper one
[07:00] <UpuWork> basically a 3 or 5 element should do
[07:00] <UpuWork> or
[07:00] <UpuWork> you can make one
[07:01] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a look around
[07:01] <UpuWork> I've seen peple make them from a tape measure
[07:01] <Darkside> bit harder to do on 70cm than on 20m tho
[07:01] <Darkside> 2m*
[07:02] <UpuWork> haha
[07:02] <UpuWork> check this :
[07:02] <UpuWork> http://www.work-sat.com/Work-Sat/Antennas_files/W6NBC-Beam.pdf
[07:02] <UpuWork> buy one :)
[07:03] <ibanezmatt13> That's fantastic :)
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[07:05] <x-f> i made the 70cm one using that guide
[07:07] <ibanezmatt13> I'm tempted by that arrow II
[07:08] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: Would that Arrow II portable Yagi work with 70cm/
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[07:12] <Willdude123> Morning, ibanezmatt13
[07:12] <Willdude123> Morning a
[07:12] <Willdude123> *all
[07:12] <ibanezmatt13> Morning Willdude123
[07:14] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: Do you reckon I should purchase it from Arrow Antennas? It's £35 and somehow it says delivery from US to UK, free...
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[07:23] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: http://www.cheapham.com/products/Arrow-Antenna-440%252d5.html Would that do the job?
[07:24] <ibanezmatt13> The 3 element version is a lot cheaper but would that be good enough?
[07:27] <eroomde> it'll do direction finding and reaching the far habs very nicely
[07:28] <eroomde> so yes, i'd say that's a good idea
[07:28] <ibanezmatt13> The 3 element?
[07:28] <eroomde> i'd be temped to buy/fashion some sort of tripod mount for it, so you can set it up and leave it
[07:28] <eroomde> yeah
[07:28] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks :)
[07:28] <eroomde> oh wait
[07:28] <eroomde> is that not the one you just linked to?
[07:28] <eroomde> 440-5
[07:29] <eroomde> oh no
[07:29] <eroomde> i see
[07:29] <UpuWork> I'd get it from Arrrow direct
[07:29] <eroomde> hmm, well it'll still work better than a normal vertical (though obviously you need to point it)
[07:29] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, Ill get it from Arrow, they had free delivery :)
[07:29] <fsphil> I managed to break my cheap tripod last night
[07:29] <UpuWork> its not free
[07:30] <UpuWork> ibanezmatt13 when you ship to UK
[07:30] <UpuWork> its about £70 imported
[07:30] <ibanezmatt13> I thought that but I estimated shipping and handling for delivery to UK and it said £0
[07:30] <UpuWork> you'll get whacked for import duty too
[07:30] <UpuWork> ~£12
[07:30] <ibanezmatt13> Ah, that's not great
[07:31] <number10> jest get arko to bring a few over in his hand luggage ;-)
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[07:32] <ibanezmatt13> haha :)
[07:32] <eroomde> they should both fit across your car's parcel shelf :)
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[07:33] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'll price up how much the 3 element comes to with shipping
[07:34] <number10> these are not bad for chase http://www.moonraker.eu/zl7-70-70cm-7-element-special-yagi-antenna-1
[07:34] <F6AGV> morning all
[07:34] <number10> morning
[07:35] <gonzo__> Ar kit should bezero rated, as it is considered educational
[07:35] <gonzo__> http://www.frars.org.uk/cgi-bin/render.pl?pageid=1295
[07:39] <Laurenceb_> sup
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[07:43] <Piet0r> Hi
[07:44] <fsphil> morning Piet0r
[07:44] <Piet0r> I see B6 has finally touched down ;)
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[07:44] <fsphil> it might still be floating about!
[07:44] <Piet0r> :o
[07:45] <fsphil> without moar power we'll never know
[07:45] <Piet0r> Poor B6
[07:45] <LeoBodnar> morning! :)
[07:45] <fsphil> morning LeoBodnar
[07:46] <Piet0r> Hello
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[07:46] <Piet0r> Just reading your report on B6
[07:50] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: congrats on flight
[07:50] <Laurenceb_> pity it missed amateur record
[07:51] <Laurenceb_> but its still #2
[07:51] <LeoBodnar> Cheers Laurenceb_
[07:51] <LeoBodnar> Good enough!
[07:51] <Laurenceb_> i was doing some simulation of eroomdes suggestion
[07:51] <Laurenceb_> that descent can become unstable
[07:52] <Laurenceb_> looks like it is true, but only once you lose some lift
[07:52] <Laurenceb_> so shade + some He loss, so you have <1gram or so free life
[07:52] <LeoBodnar> With loss of lift nothing will save you I guess
[07:52] <Laurenceb_> *lift
[07:53] <Laurenceb_> well rest state life is still easily +ive
[07:53] <Laurenceb_> its due to the temperature in the troposphere
[07:53] <Laurenceb_> that you get instability
[07:53] <Laurenceb_> so i think some small drop masses are needed for very long duration
[07:54] <Laurenceb_> looks like you might get over 1 week flight with 4 x 1gram drop masses
[07:54] <LeoBodnar> They are required to combat eventual Helium leak/diffusion anyway
[07:54] <Laurenceb_> yes
[07:55] <Laurenceb_> id use 0603 smd resistors with masses epoxied on
[07:55] <Laurenceb_> 4r7 might work
[07:56] <LeoBodnar> Interesting stuff. I have never seen such massive undulations before. 7000m to 2000m and back purely due to weather
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[07:56] <LeoBodnar> I have some stuff in the works for ballast control
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[07:57] Action: Laurenceb_ -> work
[07:57] <Laurenceb_> cya
[07:58] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork, I'm having trouble decoding in dlfldigi. I can hear it fine but the waterfall is crazy
[08:00] <LeoBodnar> CU Laurenceb_
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[08:01] <UpuWork> screen shot pls ibanezmatt13
[08:02] <ibanezmatt13> it may be my audio setup, one sec
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[08:45] <f5ct> B-6 still in the sky, or has it been recovered?
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[08:47] <x-f> f5ct, it may still be up there, but its battery died yesterday afternoon
[08:49] <f5ct> OK, thanks.
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[09:22] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: When you said "I know why we solder everything," I see what you mean
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[09:24] <ibanezmatt13> Just out of curiosity, what are those connectors called UpuWork?
[09:26] <Laurenceb> http://bellard.org/lte/
[09:26] <UpuWork> which connectors ?
[09:28] <ibanezmatt13> the ones that connect from the regulator to the c
[09:28] <ibanezmatt13> pi and chips*
[09:28] <ibanezmatt13> The ones we crimped
[09:28] <UpuWork> oh
[09:28] <UpuWork> JST
[09:28] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, these? http://proto-pic.co.uk/jst-jumper-2-wire-assembly/
[09:28] <ibanezmatt13> They look different
[09:29] <zyp> JST is a connector manufacturer, they have a lot of different connector ranges
[09:29] <ibanezmatt13> Didn't know that; thought it was a type of connector :P
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[09:30] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: The ones we made from two wires, with the crimp tool, do they sell the same ones pre-crimped?
[09:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Guys
[09:31] <eroomde> yoyo
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[09:36] <ibanezmatt13> Are they just called male 2 wire JST jumpers? UpuWork
[09:38] <UpuWork> bear with me just on the phone
[09:38] <daveake> Yogi?
[09:39] <UpuWork> JST do many connectors ibanezmatt13
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[09:39] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not sure which ones we made. Do they do the exact same ones but pre-crimped?
[09:39] <UpuWork> don't think so
[09:40] <ibanezmatt13> Are they made by anyone else or can they only be made from scratch?
[09:40] <UpuWork> They are the JST PA series
[09:41] <UpuWork> but tell me what you need as you need a £50 crimper
[09:41] <ibanezmatt13> Well to save purchasing a crimp tool I was going to see if I could buy some already done.
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[09:42] <UpuWork> that protopc link is PH series
[09:42] <ibanezmatt13> looks like they don't do premade ones
[09:42] <UpuWork> nah I'll make som eup for you
[09:43] <ibanezmatt13> It's just the ones we were doing but one of them has come loose, the one I did I think...
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[09:50] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
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[10:07] <daveake> morning LLU
[10:09] <LeoBodnar> JST = Japanese Solderlles Terminals
[10:10] <LeoBodnar> UpuWork: GPSes arrived
[10:10] <LeoBodnar> Ta!
[10:11] <eroomde> they are like little sweeties aren't they
[10:11] <eroomde> in their little reel of sweetiejarness
[10:11] <daveake> and he eats them very quickly
[10:11] <eroomde> i'm hoping to not eat them
[10:11] <Lunar_LanderU> I think I just grasped a good way to solder SMD
[10:11] <eroomde> the pcb i'm putting them on i had to mod
[10:12] <eroomde> so it's not been sent off yet
[10:12] <eroomde> which is irritating
[10:12] <Lunar_LanderU> that you actually create jumpers but then use solder wick to remove the excess and the pads themselves stay soldered
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[10:12] <eroomde> i realised some static badness could get in through the hotwires
[10:12] <eroomde> which given they're not FET-activated would be badness 10000
[10:12] <eroomde> they're now*
[10:13] <LeoBodnar> Yumm! One is gone
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[10:15] <LeoBodnar> Does Würth sales guy bring Waitrose jam doughnuts to all customers or is it just me?
[10:15] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: not sure if u were around yesterday when i was fruitlessly pontificating, but i'm interested in the random plummets the balloons do
[10:15] <eroomde> from a seemingly stable float
[10:15] <LeoBodnar> No wasn't around. Can't be moisture.
[10:16] <LeoBodnar> Or can it?
[10:16] <eroomde> and it would be fascinating if a future flight had both differential balloon pressure and internal balloon temp and external balloon temp, and floated for long enough to get a good dataset, like B-6
[10:16] <eroomde> well, my pontification was to the effect that it's only marginally stable in a float
[10:17] <eroomde> and say it goes up a bit (which seemed to precurse the plummets) and suddenly find once the dynmic effect of going up is over that it's not actually got enough bouyancy to stay there,
[10:17] <eroomde> then it will start to descend
[10:18] <eroomde> however in ascending to a cooler region (we're beneath the tropopause here so higher = cooler) its internal gas temperture will have cooled
[10:18] <eroomde> as it drops it will be descending into warmer air, so the cooler internal gas will be at a lower pressure
[10:19] <eroomde> and so it will keep descending even more
[10:19] <eroomde> somewhat runaway
[10:19] <eroomde> before after say 30-mins/hr the internal temp as finally warmed up enough for the bouyancy to become zero or positive
[10:19] <eroomde> then it slowly starts to march back up again
[10:19] <eroomde> and sometimes it seems to get lucky and hit a stable float
[10:19] <eroomde> and other times it seems to ascend intil another plummet
[10:20] <eroomde> i don't think it would be moisture at that altitude, i think it will all turn to vapour
[10:20] <LeoBodnar> It will only descend until it will become non-superpressured?
[10:20] <eroomde> yes basically
[10:22] <LeoBodnar> So if super-pressure transition region has negative altitude over ground level le ball is doomed
[10:22] <eroomde> uhuh
[10:22] <eroomde> effect might be different above the tropopause tho
[10:22] <eroomde> i.e. more stable
[10:23] <eroomde> as higher = warmer
[10:23] <Laurenceb> http://sakuraboard.net/index.html
[10:23] <Laurenceb> eroomde: lol i was going to say
[10:23] <LeoBodnar> Yes, I think ice sublimation is more probable than melting and then evaporating
[10:23] <Laurenceb> i simulated your idea
[10:23] <Laurenceb> and it works
[10:23] <Laurenceb> but you have already written tons...
[10:24] <LeoBodnar> So 10km is a sort of worst reagon?
[10:24] <LeoBodnar> region?
[10:24] <LeoBodnar> or Reagan ?
[10:25] <Laurenceb> i think its also a function of free lift
[10:25] <Laurenceb> i was talking about drop masses before
[10:25] <LeoBodnar> Haha, Harakiri board. Only has Rev 0.1
[10:25] <Laurenceb> but actually i dont think you ned them for <1week flight time
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[10:25] <Laurenceb> as you have a bit of scope to increase the free lift imo
[10:25] <Laurenceb> stick it up to 2 grams or maybe even 2.5grams
[10:25] <Laurenceb> rather than 1.3
[10:26] <LeoBodnar> But ballast drop means if it survives it will have to sustain larger differential pressure later unless it vents some gass off
[10:26] <Laurenceb> i think this will keep you stable
[10:26] <Laurenceb> no
[10:26] <LeoBodnar> Good point
[10:26] <Laurenceb> ballast drop maintains a stable ~1gram free lift
[10:26] <Laurenceb> think about this - during sun on B5 you were approaching 7grams free lift
[10:27] <Laurenceb> so if you have a bit of leeway on envelope stress - as you are flying at higher altitude than previous superpressure picos
[10:27] <Laurenceb> then you can increase it by another gram or so
[10:28] <Laurenceb> which imo would be enough for stability
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[10:30] <LeoBodnar> eroomde and Laurenceb are you in agreement or disagreement re meta-stability in float? My head is a bit empty now.
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[10:30] <Laurenceb> i think i basically agree with eroomde
[10:30] <LeoBodnar> Would be interesting to run simulation on this
[10:31] <Laurenceb> but i think that its maybe only unstable if theres some shade and its lost some gas
[10:31] <Geoff-G8DHE-> Morning
[10:31] <SpeedEvil> NEAD MOAR DATA.
[10:31] <Laurenceb> i think its unstable once you get tp ~ <1gram free lift
[10:31] <SpeedEvil> Seems logical.
[10:31] <eroomde> sorry work meeting 5 mins
[10:31] <eroomde> will rd backlog then
[10:31] <LeoBodnar> I assume A in drag equation can be assumed constant
[10:32] <LeoBodnar> Morning Geoff-G8DHE-
[10:32] <Laurenceb> the tropospheric lapse rate based effect is going to be small
[10:32] <Laurenceb> so only at low free lift will it cause the instability
[10:33] <Geoff-G8DHE-> Was it rain that caused those height variations?
[10:33] <fsphil> there was cloud about
[10:33] <Laurenceb> maybe partly
[10:33] <fsphil> it could have gained weight from moisture sticking to the balloon
[10:33] <Laurenceb> yes
[10:34] <rharrison_> Humidity sensor in there too then
[10:34] <fsphil> and that probably played with the temperature too
[10:34] <x-f> do clouds have some vertical air movement above them too?
[10:34] <Geoff-G8DHE-> That would be a good idea
[10:34] <LeoBodnar> I think rain causes a lot of vertiical air movement - cold downdraft causes massive funnel effect above the clouds.
[10:34] <SpeedEvil> x-f: yes
[10:34] <x-f> didn't know
[10:34] <Laurenceb> i wonder about lowering the current draw
[10:34] <Laurenceb> turning max7 "off"
[10:34] <fsphil> fewer gps updates
[10:34] <LeoBodnar> This looks similar to wind shear that has killed a lot of airplanes but the V/S is too low for windshear
[10:35] <Laurenceb> just ram backup and rtc
[10:35] <fsphil> once a minute would probably be fine
[10:35] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: baro too would be good
[10:35] <Laurenceb> then use baro to detect altitude changes
[10:35] <LeoBodnar> It is like windshear slowed down by x100 ?
[10:35] <Laurenceb> yeah
[10:35] <Laurenceb> only transmit if altitude changes a lot
[10:35] <Laurenceb> otherwise once every 10 minutes or something
[10:35] <SpeedEvil> Noise sensor would be interesting
[10:35] <eroomde> right i have caught up
[10:35] <eroomde> yes i think laurence and i agree
[10:36] <SpeedEvil> to pick up rain
[10:36] <eroomde> and i also agree that, intuitively to me at least, the amount of free lift is somewhat like the gain term in this feedback loop
[10:36] <LeoBodnar> Superpressured balloon = good microphone
[10:36] <eroomde> but i think it's all a bit non-linear and so i'm being a bit handwavey
[10:37] <Laurenceb> drop masses would be fun
[10:37] <Laurenceb> but im unsure if its overkill
[10:37] <eroomde> so basically a plot of altitude, delta-pressure, delta-temperature vs time would be really instructive
[10:37] <LeoBodnar> I need a workbreak to do useful stuff for a few mins
[10:37] <SpeedEvil> http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html#The_Mathematics_of_Sous_Vide amused me.
[10:37] <eroomde> i wonder how you measure telata-temperature accurately
[10:37] <eroomde> hmmm
[10:37] <eroomde> d'oh, thermocouple
[10:37] <eroomde> obviously
[10:37] <SpeedEvil> In a cook book!
[10:37] <Laurenceb> heh
[10:38] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Or the TI IR thingy
[10:38] <eroomde> don't know what that is
[10:38] <Laurenceb> tmp006
[10:38] <Laurenceb> reference temperature is an issue
[10:38] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: TI SMD tiny I2C IR thermomemter
[10:38] <LeoBodnar> aluminised foil = one metal in the pair
[10:38] <Laurenceb> lol
[10:38] <eroomde> i'd have thought a thermocouple running from in the balloon down to the flight computer (with an exposed 'cold junction' - a clumsy term in this context) would do the trick
[10:38] <Laurenceb> i think getting a air temp reference is the fiddly bit
[10:39] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: i'd really like to measure the temp of the gas in the middle of the ballon, ideally
[10:39] <eroomde> rather than balloon skin
[10:39] <Laurenceb> actually... tmp006 might be good for that
[10:39] <eroomde> although i don't really know what the temp profile inside the balloon would look like
[10:39] <Laurenceb> using some emittor suspected in the middle of the envelope
[10:39] <Laurenceb> poss overkill
[10:40] <eroomde> you sort of want thed_temp readings to be good to 0.1C or so. Hence why i was thinking a thermocouple over 2 individual temp sensors
[10:40] <eroomde> want the d_temp*
[10:40] <Laurenceb> yeah
[10:40] <Laurenceb> thermocouple is most sane
[10:40] <LeoBodnar> It was the very middle of the balloon on B-5 but it did not go on a wild ride
[10:40] <eroomde> yeah, B-5 instrumentation with B-6's ride would be a really really fascinating dataset
[10:40] <eroomde> well to me anyway
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[10:43] <Geoff-G8DHE-> What would be the battery life of a B-5 with AA battery?
[10:43] <SpeedEvil> Also - has still nobody measured delta-p at the top of a latex floater?
[10:43] <LeoBodnar> Same as B-6
[10:45] <Geoff-G8DHE-> LeoBofdnar, hoped that would be the vanswer
[10:45] <LeoBodnar> Where can get a sample of latex used on proper balloons? I can stick on a rubber tester and get stress/strain curve
[10:45] <LeoBodnar> *stick it on a rubber tester
[10:45] <Darkside> gt a 100g hwoyee from steve
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: That would be fun.
[10:46] <SpeedEvil> For 100g, you could pretty much do it with a water-loop manometer, and a hoover.
[10:46] <LeoBodnar> Then you can plug it into the ascent / float simulation
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[10:47] <Laurenceb> of course if you have 4 drop masses there could only be one name for the hab
[10:47] <Laurenceb> Quatermass
[10:48] <Darkside> hhahahah
[10:48] <LeoBodnar> :)
[10:48] <Darkside> hey, when you did the first ones i was thinking of B1 and B2
[10:48] <Darkside> bananas in pajamas
[10:49] <LeoBodnar> lol need to work a little
[10:49] <staylo_> And if it accidentally releases all drop masses together, quatermass and the pit
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[11:05] <eroomde> i think there are references to be got here that i'm nt getting
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[11:26] <Lunar_LanderU> eroomde: did you see the plot of superpressure vs. altitude and "time" from B-4 that I made?
[11:26] <Lunar_LanderU> no B-5 I think it was
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[11:43] <Lunar_LanderU> hi S_Mark
[11:44] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_LanderU: where?
[11:44] <Lunar_LanderU> [12:09] <Lunar_LanderU> LeoBodnar: http://s.gullipics.com/image/4/i/m/ji1rd83-ksgn31-kbew/Graph6.png and http://s.gullipics.com/image/o/f/3/ji1rd83-ksgn81-je76/Graph7.png
[11:44] <Lunar_LanderU> (copied from the Logs of July 15)
[11:45] <Laurenceb> looks like some zeros offset
[11:45] <Laurenceb> *zero
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> What happened at sequence 1000-2000?
[11:47] <Laurenceb> maybe a cloud
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[11:48] <LeoBodnar> 1000-2000 was nighttime
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> And where is 1000-2000 on the superpressure/altitude graph - is it that little wrinkle halfway down?
[11:49] <LeoBodnar> First peak is when it caught a bit of sunshine before sunset
[11:49] <SpeedEvil> ah
[11:54] <Laurenceb> hmm
[11:54] <Lunar_LanderU> altitude graph http://s.gullipics.com/image/6/3/y/ji1rd83-ktl7j6-y101/Graph1.png
[11:54] <Laurenceb> so superheating is about 6.5grams lift
[11:54] <Laurenceb> that puts the free lift into context
[11:55] <Lunar_LanderU> around number 1800, it climbs and the superpressure rises, ending that plateau
[11:55] <Laurenceb> id try with a little more free lift
[11:55] <Lunar_LanderU> and P only levels off again when the balloon levelled off at 7 km
[12:01] <LeoBodnar> I estimated that superheating during the day increased envelope volume by 10% is this right?
[12:02] <UpuWork> ping Chetic http://i.imgur.com/4qBbGwe.jpg
[12:02] <Chetic> weeee
[12:02] <LeoBodnar> As B-6 has shown some of this envelope volume increase was plastic so it is not reversible - 2nd night float is higher than the first.
[12:02] <UpuWork> needs testing.. so bear with me
[12:02] <Chetic> that looks beautiful
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[12:03] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: seems about right
[12:03] <Lunar_LanderU> and temperatures http://s.gullipics.com/image/y/j/a/ji1rd83-ktl7yh-rd3g/Graph2T.png
[12:03] <Lunar_LanderU> http://s.gullipics.com/image/m/e/f/ji1rd83-ktl7zp-o3go/Graph3.png
[12:03] Action: Martin_G4FUI has just lost the will to live during a full virus scan ...
[12:04] Action: Martin_G4FUI curses all virus authors, hanging is too good for them . . .
[12:04] <Laurenceb> i think theres some sensor offset there
[12:04] <LeoBodnar> Temperature sensors can't be trusted!
[12:04] <Chetic> UpuWork: more info?
[12:05] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:05] <UpuWork> not yet Chetic
[12:05] <Chetic> darn
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[12:07] <Lunar_LanderU> UpuWork: cool!
[12:09] <PB0NER> LeoBodnar.... about testing latex... keep in mind that temperature, UV etc do infuence the lifetime of the material. testing it in lab conditions might not give you the needed data...
[12:10] <LeoBodnar> I want to see at what point on the stress/strain plot balloon bursts
[12:12] <craag> daveake: Looking through some of the pics now, in the early ones you can just about make out the parachute, payload and buzz seperately.
[12:12] <daveake> oh excellent :)
[12:12] <PB0NER> (not that I think you do not know about that)
[12:12] <craag> I mean, they're slight white splodges, but there's 3 of them, correctly spaced and following the balloon.
[12:13] <fsphil> did you see the burst craag?
[12:13] <UpuWork> pics craag :)
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[12:13] <x-f> did the balloon light up after sunset on the ground?
[12:13] <craag> fsphil: No, someone turned up and distracted me just as it happened..
[12:14] <craag> UpuWork: Cropping them now.
[12:14] <UpuWork> ok cool :)
[12:14] <craag> There's 200 of them :P (down from 400 off the camera)
[12:14] <Martin_G4FUI> craag - ahhh that'll be your celebrity status, no doubt ...
[12:15] <craag> fsphil: I was looking through the viewfinder about 15s before burst, and about 10s after.. but stopped to say Hi to Dave.
[12:15] <daveake> craag is a future video star :)
[12:15] <daveake> ah my fault then :p
[12:15] <craag> Indeed!
[12:15] <craag> :P
[12:15] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[12:15] <Martin_G4FUI> celeb!
[12:15] <daveake> Actually, my fault for missing the turning off the A4 - I'd have been there much earlier :)
[12:16] <craag> Oh well, later pics didn't come out well at all anyway, light level was far too low for a decent speed exposure, so they're all blurs.
[12:16] <fsphil> lol
[12:17] <daveake> yeah was tricky
[12:17] <daveake> you need a big lens :D
[12:17] <Martin_G4FUI> RC of shutter speed ? ?
[12:17] <craag> *bigger
[12:17] <fsphil> I need to link my telescope to habitat :)
[12:17] <daveake> *even bigger
[12:18] <Martin_G4FUI> faster film
[12:18] <fsphil> film?
[12:18] <PB0NER> film? faster bits :-)
[12:19] <fsphil> quicker sketch artists
[12:19] <db_g6gzh_> a very powerful flash
[12:19] <fsphil> haha
[12:19] <x-f> laser tracking
[12:19] <PB0NER> I have a PTZ camera here with backlight in the CCD... looked at MArs with that
[12:19] <fsphil> a laser pointing at a retroreflector on the payload
[12:20] <db_g6gzh_> if you had a powerful enough laser you could guarantee to catch the burst 8-)
[12:20] <Martin_G4FUI> Just goes to show, practically everything is a compromise ...
[12:21] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHhn3QWPGZk
[12:21] <Martin_G4FUI> daveake, did you get to the root cause of the ZURG transmission problem?
[12:21] <PB0NER> by the way, I'm soon looking at a radome recovered from a ship with gyro stabilised rotor....
[12:22] <daveake> Martin_G4FUI, No not had a look yet. Will do today
[12:22] <craag> At teaser for you guys (don't link this anywhere), one of the last pics I got, zoomed out to 150mm. http://i.imgur.com/yXiPlBq.jpg
[12:22] <daveake> Essentially same firmware as the other one (just minus the special messages!) and the same that I've flown loads of times
[12:22] <Martin_G4FUI> ... apart from my commenting on here about what a nice stable transmission it was, immediately before it went belly up!
[12:23] <fsphil> bit of a worry
[12:23] <daveake> And the board is a variation on something that has also flown loads
[12:23] <PB0NER> I just might put that on to op my '72 VW van (under restauration)
[12:23] <daveake> It'll be power, I'm sure
[12:23] <daveake> Bad connection or a mistake with the batteries
[12:23] <daveake> I ran that board in testing for days without issue
[12:26] <mikestir-work> fsphil: was it you I was chatting with about jpeg camera modules for ssdv?
[12:26] <fsphil> mikestir-work: aye
[12:26] <mikestir-work> well I've ordered a couple of those Aptina modules from China. £12 each with the lens mount and lens
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[12:27] <fsphil> that's a great price
[12:27] <mikestir-work> aim being to fly one in september
[12:27] <fsphil> what sort of flight computer?
[12:27] <mikestir-work> they are still parallel out so debating how to deal with that. possibly a CPLD and SPI SRAM
[12:27] <PB0NER> ..... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093511/Pilot-warns-copycat-weather-balloon-experiments-bring-airplane.html
[12:27] <Martin_G4FUI> https://www.dropbox.com/s/exqx9qcomqmv9mi/SL_2dcap_130717_2022.jpg Screen grab of my waterfall before the ZURG failure - RH portion is my QSY to buzz and subesequent VFO tweaks to track it
[12:28] <fsphil> yea you need the memory
[12:28] <PB0NER> yeah right... and they shoot frozen chickens into an engine for testing....
[12:28] <mikestir-work> fsphil: hopefully just atmega with external ram
[12:28] <UpuWork> PB0NER Daily Mail = reactionary clap trap wouldn't wipe my arse on it
[12:29] <fsphil> if you can DMA the camera data into external ram, then read it at a slower pace, that would be ideal
[12:29] <mikestir-work> will probably play around with them on an STM32F4 to begin with, then think about how it could be simplified
[12:29] <fsphil> PB0NER: it's often called the Daily Fail, for good reasons :)
[12:29] <mikestir-work> an mcu with a dma-capable parallel port was my first thought, but that basically means something high-end with an EBI
[12:29] <Martin_G4FUI> Daily Fascist!
[12:30] <PB0NER> UpuWork... that is the problem with press, they blow up stories to sell stuff....
[12:30] <fsphil> mikestir-work: yea. though the STM would make a good flight computer too
[12:30] <PB0NER> and that Pilot they refer to... he is some stupid ass...
[12:31] <mikestir-work> even the stm only has the bus interface on the really high pin count variants
[12:31] <mikestir-work> although the F407 has a camera port (but not enough ram for a framestore!)
[12:32] <fsphil> d'oh
[12:32] <fsphil> yea you'd need the whole frame
[12:32] <mikestir-work> anyway they won't be here for a couple of weeks, but I'll let you know how I get on
[12:32] <fsphil> I don't think it could encode a x16 strip fast enough
[12:32] <mikestir-work> no probably not. that's how these aptina sensors do it though, so you still have to clock it out on the sensor's terms
[12:33] <LeoBodnar> DailyMail will post anything just to get you onto the website as they know you will drift to the right.
[12:33] <LeoBodnar> Side of the web page that is
[12:35] <LeoBodnar> "Teenager makes 50A 1kV MOSFET with zero gate capacitance out of his snot"
[12:38] <UpuWork> who whole Jan Moir vs Katherine Jenkins thing sums it up for me
[12:39] <UpuWork> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10015181/Katherine-Jenkins-v-Jan-Moir-Twitter-wins-the-first-round.html
[12:39] <UpuWork> for summary
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> I just read the right-hand bar on that article down to the comments, and failed to find one positive story.
[12:43] <LeoBodnar> Happy people are bad audience
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[12:44] <Laurenceb> it was pretty sad for me
[12:44] <Laurenceb> royalty crap
[12:44] <Laurenceb> we need to become a republic asap
[12:45] <Laurenceb> looks like tons of celebrity crap too
[12:45] <Laurenceb> i dont know or care who these losers are
[12:45] <LeoBodnar> We can buy some republic in China.
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> Their 'benefit' stories are often hideously inaccurate and misleading.
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[12:46] <Laurenceb> #politics ...
[12:46] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: any new balloons coming up?
[12:47] <Lunar_LanderU> let me guess
[12:47] <Lunar_LanderU> B-7
[12:47] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
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[12:48] <Lunar_LanderU> fsphil: did read a bit about interrupts, still need to run it through my mind again, but seemed to be useful
[12:48] <fsphil> very useful
[12:48] <Lunar_LanderU> now I also understood upu's code he wrote here http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=408
[12:48] <fsphil> and very simple, but easy to get wrong :)
[12:48] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
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[12:49] <Lunar_LanderU> yesterday you said that making a LED blink would be like a good start for this
[12:49] <fsphil> yes, all the code needed would be self contained
[12:49] <fsphil> no interaction between the main program and the interrupt
[12:49] <Lunar_LanderU> when I look into the code by Upu, would the LED Blinking instruction then be in what is labelled as "ISR(TIMER1_COMPA_vect)" ?
[12:49] <fsphil> yes
[12:49] <Lunar_LanderU> as I can see his radio code in there in his coda
[12:49] <Lunar_LanderU> *code
[12:49] <Lunar_LanderU> ah, thanks
[12:50] <fsphil> that interrupt is fired when the timer reaches a certain value
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[12:50] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[12:50] <UpuWork> 1 sec Lunar I think I have a blink example
[12:50] <Lunar_LanderU> cool, thanks
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[12:52] <UpuWork> grab the latest HABduino code Lunar_LanderU
[12:52] <Alchamist> Ar'noon all. When did B6 finally give out?
[12:52] <LeoBodnar> I will probably take this week off for B-series XD.
[12:52] <UpuWork> under the Interupt routine in there is a blinky LED bit
[12:52] <fsphil> leave it all B-hind?
[12:52] <LeoBodnar> Haha
[12:53] <fsphil> I'm very sorry
[12:53] <Lunar_LanderU> UpuWork: I'm at it, checking now
[12:53] <fsphil> I'll B-have from now on
[12:54] <Lunar_LanderU> can see it, line 303-328
[12:54] <Lunar_LanderU> using millis
[12:54] <LeoBodnar> Form a B-line
[12:54] <LeoBodnar> to France
[12:55] <Lunar_LanderU> what exactly are the OK and WARN LEDs for?
[12:55] <fsphil> guess
[12:55] <Lunar_LanderU> when I understand it, WARN turns on if altitude is above 1000 and less than 4 sats?
[12:56] <Lunar_LanderU> wait, more than 4
[12:56] <fsphil> we've been 16 hours without a balloon in the air. this is weird
[12:57] <LeoBodnar> Withdrawal syndromes?
[12:57] <LeoBodnar> Sweating and shaking
[12:57] <LeoBodnar> Random limb movements
[12:57] <fsphil> I'm hearing rtty everywhere
[12:57] <gonzo__> contest ear
[12:58] <fsphil> haha
[12:58] <Willdude123> Hi people.
[12:58] <Lunar_LanderU> so http://paste.ubuntu.com/5887455/
[12:58] <gonzo__> go and get a bacon roll from the cafe. it's the only known cure
[12:58] <Willdude123> Hi UpuWork
[12:58] <UpuWork> hi Will
[12:58] <Lunar_LanderU> I think these belong together
[12:58] <Martin_G4FUI> fsphil I keep warning folk about how addictive this is!
[12:59] <Lunar_LanderU> can you say that is like a second setup and loop?
[12:59] <fsphil> good advice gonzo__
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[12:59] <UpuWork> no Lunar
[12:59] <Willdude123> So yeah
[12:59] <Willdude123> Hi
[12:59] <UpuWork> if alt > 1000 and sats >=4 (sanity check) turn the LED's off no one is going to be there
[12:59] <Willdude123> IRC at school
[13:00] <UpuWork> otherwise blink depending on the error status
[13:00] <Willdude123> I best get started on the uxbx
[13:00] <UpuWork> if you do anything based on altitude its best to check the GPS knows where it is
[13:00] <LeoBodnar> Is bacon roll aerobatics manoeuvre?
[13:00] <Lunar_LanderU> UpuWork: ah sorry I missed out that both are called LOW
[13:00] <Lunar_LanderU> I thought I read WARN to be HIGH
[13:01] <UpuWork> the board has 2 LED's on
[13:01] <Lunar_LanderU> UpuWork: and you are right, I did that the same way for the cutdown
[13:01] <UpuWork> if its blinking green you're good to launch
[13:01] <Lunar_LanderU> I only had the cutdown activate if altitude>H and lock == 3
[13:01] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
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[13:02] <Lunar_LanderU> and red means NO GO then?
[13:02] <daveake> <UpuWork> if alt > 1000 and sats >=4 (sanity check) turn the LED's off no one is going to be there
[13:02] <Lunar_LanderU> (red, orange or somesuch)
[13:02] <daveake> 1000 you say ....? :)
[13:02] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[13:02] <UpuWork> well yes
[13:02] <UpuWork> possibly
[13:03] <Lunar_LanderU> Radim
[13:03] <Lunar_LanderU> Austria
[13:03] <Lunar_LanderU> recovery
[13:03] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[13:03] <fsphil> that led only helps increase entropy
[13:03] <daveake> yup
[13:04] <Willdude123> UpuWork: PM
[13:04] <UpuWork> quite busy Willdude123
[13:04] <UpuWork> don't be offended if I don't respond
[13:04] <Willdude123> OSrryNVm
[13:04] <Willdude123> ]]]Lol
[13:04] <Willdude123> Shelling a box
[13:04] <Willdude123> Is bad
[13:05] <Willdude123> UpuWork: I sent it earlier. :)
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[13:06] <Lunar_LanderU> but was the idea about the two functions being a setup and loop correct?
[13:06] <Lunar_LanderU> when I look at initialise_interrupt, it looks like a setup routine for the following interrupt
[13:07] <fsphil> it configures the timer and enables the timer interrupt yea
[13:07] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[13:07] <fsphil> there are many kinds of interrupt
[13:07] <Lunar_LanderU> and this is interesting
[13:07] <Lunar_LanderU> OCR1A = F_CPU / 1024 / RTTY_BAUD - 1; // set compare match register to desired timer count:
[13:07] <Lunar_LanderU> is that the definition of the time interval?
[13:07] <fsphil> the timer in that case counts up to the value in OCR1A
[13:08] <fsphil> then the timer goes back to zero, and triggers the timer overflow interrupt
[13:08] <fsphil> (if enabled)
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[13:08] <cyclops> HI!
[13:08] <craag> From 407 photos, I'm now down to ~30 good ones... this photography malarky is time consuming..
[13:08] <UpuWork> oh
[13:08] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> :-)
[13:08] <UpuWork> cyclops you were the one interested in habduino ?
[13:09] <Lunar_LanderU> fsphil: thanks
[13:10] <cyclops> ye syes
[13:10] <UpuWork> ah sorry Chetic :)
[13:10] <UpuWork> wrong person beginning with 'c' :)
[13:10] <Lunar_LanderU> so I think F_CPU is the quartz freq.
[13:10] <UpuWork> http://i.imgur.com/4qBbGwe.jpg
[13:10] <UpuWork> will test
[13:10] <fsphil> Lunar_LanderU: yes
[13:10] <UpuWork> tonight
[13:10] <Chetic> daaaamn!
[13:10] <cyclops> You great
[13:10] <cyclops> :D
[13:10] <Lunar_LanderU> ah, and with RTTY_BAUD you can select any baud rate you want
[13:10] <cyclops> Looks awsome
[13:10] <Lunar_LanderU> cool
[13:10] <fsphil> within limits yes
[13:11] <UpuWork> ok afk
[13:11] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah I read that 600 is max for the RFM
[13:11] <fsphil> the result is rounded to the nearest integer, so you can't do some odd rates
[13:11] <fsphil> and I think the register it's writing to is 8-bit
[13:12] <fsphil> no tell a lie, OCR1A is 16-bit
[13:12] <fsphil> so the result must be between 0-65535
[13:13] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[13:13] <LeoBodnar> What was the Dave's task UpuWork ?
[13:14] <Lunar_LanderU> why is the freq. divided by 1024 first?
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[13:14] <fsphil> Lunar_LanderU: the timer is setup to tick once every 1024 cpu cycles
[13:14] <fsphil> it has the divider enabled
[13:14] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[13:14] <fsphil> I think /1024 is the slowest -- if it was too fast 50 baud would be impossible
[13:15] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[13:16] <Lunar_LanderU> so would it work on a 8 MHz system?
[13:16] <daveake> Except you can count ticks and only do the rtty bit even n ticks
[13:16] <daveake> s/even/every/
[13:17] <Lunar_LanderU> ok
[13:17] <fsphil> yes. I should have said 50hz would be impossible
[13:17] <daveake> :)
[13:17] <fsphil> the interrupt code could skip steps too
[13:17] <fsphil> 8000000 / 1024 / 50 - 1
[13:18] <fsphil> gets rounded down to 155
[13:18] <fsphil> which is about 50.40 hz
[13:18] <fsphil> close enough
[13:19] <Lunar_LanderU> sounds good
[13:19] <fsphil> sorry, 50.08 hz
[13:19] <daveake> Woah http://lightsinthedark.wordpress.com/2010/11/26/fear-a-flying/
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[13:20] <Lunar_LanderU> so when I think about it, the code from the NTX2 tutorial used a delay of some 20k ms at the end to generate the 50 baud transmission
[13:20] <Lunar_LanderU> in this case, the time runs down and then constructs the next part of the transmission?
[13:21] <fsphil> if the interrupt sets the next bit each time, then the timer will control the baud rate
[13:22] <Lunar_LanderU> ok
[13:22] <fsphil> the interrupt's job is to just set the 1 or 0, and exit
[13:22] <fsphil> well it needs to find out which one it has to be too
[13:22] <daveake> Just think of the timer int happening on the dot every 20ms (or whatever) comewhat may. The interrupt code has to do whatever should happen at exactly that point in time.
[13:22] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[13:23] <HixWork> did you download them pdfs Lunar_LanderU ?
[13:23] <daveake> So first time it gets called, it checks to see if there's a sentence for it, and if so sends the start bit for the first byte
[13:23] <Lunar_LanderU> HixWork: yea, also had some reading of them, now want to understand this practical example
[13:23] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[13:23] <daveake> Next time it sends the first bit of that byte,
[13:23] <daveake> and next time the 2nd bit
[13:23] <daveake> etc till it's done the top bits
[13:23] <daveake> then it does the next byte
[13:23] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[13:23] <daveake> etc etc till it's done all the bytes
[13:24] <Lunar_LanderU> when I look into the code, I can see that there is a status flag running from 0 to 4
[13:24] <daveake> then (the way I do it) it sets a flag saying "I need another sentence"
[13:24] <daveake> and then each tick tests to see if the sentence has magically appeared
[13:24] <Lunar_LanderU> when I get it right, it begins data acquisition at status 1, then it switches between 2 and 3 to transmit and 4 gives the stop bit
[13:24] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[13:25] <daveake> The main loop just checks that "create sentence please" flag and builds the sentence and sets a flag to say the sentence exists
[13:25] <daveake> So it's all quite simple
[13:25] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[13:25] <daveake> Simple when you've done it anyway :)
[13:25] <Lunar_LanderU> so you can also have the string generation in the main loop and then tell the chip to write all the stuff to the SD while the radio is running?
[13:25] <daveake> Yes
[13:25] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[13:26] <daveake> You *could* build the sentence in the timer routine, but there's a danger that it will take a while
[13:26] <fsphil> you just have to remember that it's sending it in the background, and you can't over-write that string
[13:26] <daveake> And as ageneral rule, keep interrupt routines short and quick
[13:26] <fsphil> which I have done many times
[13:26] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[13:26] <daveake> fsphil indeed :)
[13:26] <Lunar_LanderU> I think the Habduino does just that
[13:26] <Lunar_LanderU> i.e. generating the string in the interrupt
[13:27] <Lunar_LanderU> when I read the code correctly
[13:27] <daveake> timer stuff can go pear-shaped if you don't remember these rules
[13:27] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[13:27] <daveake> You can I just don't like doing it, because of the risk
[13:27] <Lunar_LanderU> so while transmitting a string takes 15 seconds at 50 bauds, the interrupt is short, as there is one character broadcast each time
[13:28] <daveake> no
[13:28] <daveake> one BIT
[13:28] <Lunar_LanderU> yes, sorry
[13:28] <Lunar_LanderU> at the 15 sec is the total time thenm
[13:28] <Lunar_LanderU> -m
[13:28] <UpuWork> I construct the sentence in the interupt but I lock the variables whilst I do it
[13:28] <daveake> And 1 bit = start bit or data bit or stop bit
[13:28] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[13:29] <Lunar_LanderU> what I meant was "keeping the interrupt short"
[13:29] <daveake> Yeah UpuWork I'm just allergic to doing anything complex in an ISR, having been bitten before
[13:29] <Lunar_LanderU> that the interrupt in there follows that rule as each bit is a really short thing to do
[13:29] <UpuWork> I present the Habduino code for people to improve on
[13:30] <Lunar_LanderU> one sec
[13:30] <daveake> Right, off to return 1 slightly used cylinder
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[13:32] <Lunar_LanderU> so if I want to have the main loop making the string, I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/5887534/
[13:32] <Lunar_LanderU> ?
[13:34] <LeoBodnar> Thou shalt beware of timing jitter via different condition paths in ISRs.
[13:38] <Lunar_LanderU> ?
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[13:38] <rogerponts> Hi !
[13:41] <rogerponts> I will do a yagi antenna like this (http://makezine.com/projects/homemade-yagi-antenna/) to receive the signal from a NTX2 (434.650 Mhz) and I don't know the lenght and the separation between the rods
[13:42] <craag> rogerponts: You want to look for a 'yagi calculator'
[13:42] <craag> YOu can put in the frequency and it will tell you length and spacing
[13:42] <mikestir-work> beat me to it craag. http://www.vk5dj.com/yagi.html
[13:42] <craag> like that one ^^ :)
[13:43] <rogerponts> ok thanks
[13:43] <Lunar_LanderU> fsphil: next problem would be our electrometer
[13:43] <mikestir-work> I used that for my 7 ele pvc pipe yagi which I'm very pleased with
[13:43] <Lunar_LanderU> there is an opamp oscillator resetting the system by giving a full scale pulse every 14 seconds, which lasts about 1.5 seconds
[13:43] <Lunar_LanderU> can an interrupt be used to read data from it just after a reset?
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[13:44] <Lunar_LanderU> thing is, when it runs normally, data is pulled every 16 seconds, without sychronization
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[13:57] <UpuWork> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/18/spears_flight_summary/
[13:58] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks UpuWork :)
[13:59] <Lunar_LanderU> do you have an idea to the problem I just presented?
[14:08] <eroomde> Lunar_LanderU: you want the microcontroller to do something when (or just after) an op-amp produces a pulse?
[14:15] <rogerponts> One question, what is boom position ?
[14:16] <mikestir-work> the position of the element along the boom
[14:16] <rogerponts> boom and beam is the same ?
[14:17] <mikestir-work> the boom is the bit that the elements are mounted on
[14:17] <rogerponts> ok
[14:18] <Lunar_LanderU> eroomde: sorry was afk
[14:18] <Lunar_LanderU> exactly
[14:18] <Lunar_LanderU> currently, my balloon code grabs GPS and sensor data, assembles the string, then transmits
[14:18] <Lunar_LanderU> and that takes 16 seconds currently, as you can see from the steps in the time section in the data line
[14:19] <Lunar_LanderU> now my professor asked me if we could synchronize the reset induced by the oscillator and the data grabbing
[14:20] <eroomde> sure
[14:20] <eroomde> why do you need a separate oscillator?
[14:20] <eroomde> could the microcontroller not reset the thing that the oscillator is resetting?
[14:22] <Lunar_LanderU> we built the electrometer circuit from a 2001 paper by Giles Harrison, and he included that oscillator to reset the electrometer in evenly spaced intervals, but his circuit was to be attached to a RS-80 radiosonde
[14:22] <Lunar_LanderU> and the reset sequence then also was used as a reference marker
[14:23] <eroomde> does it have to be that way though?
[14:23] <Lunar_LanderU> I don't think so, my prof also said what you meant: if we cannot synchronize it, we have to reset by sending a pulse from the AVR
[14:23] <eroomde> yeah
[14:23] <eroomde> i mean, that's probably easier, is all i was thinking
[14:24] <eroomde> but yes you could just use the op-amp reset pulse to trigger an interrupt to sample the sensor
[14:24] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
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[14:25] <Lunar_LanderU> as I said, we built on that circuit, but in a 2009 paper by Harrison, he uses a pulse from the CPU to induce reset
[14:25] <eroomde> you'll need to use of the external interrupt pins one the avr
[14:25] <Lunar_LanderU> still we wanted to build it like the 2001 system
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[14:25] <Lunar_LanderU> especially as the 2009 system had something like a 128 second reset interval
[14:26] <Lunar_LanderU> let me look up the voltage that pulse had to have
[14:26] <Lunar_LanderU> seems like 9 V
[14:27] <eroomde> right
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[14:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> Guys, quick question. When there's a launch, there's often a chase car on the map too. Can you point me to some info on how that's done please?
[14:27] <eroomde> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:chase_car_trackers
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[14:28] <eroomde> Lunar_LanderU: that sounds nice and easy
[14:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cheers eroomde
[14:28] <mfa298> G0TDJ_Steve: there are some chase car apps, also if you use a gps module with dl-fldigi it appears as a chasecar
[14:28] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[14:28] <eroomde> if it's just a simple square pulse
[14:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> mfa298: as in iPhone?
[14:28] <eroomde> https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/habhub/id599960446?mt=8
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[14:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> Accessing....
[14:29] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[14:29] <eroomde> Lunar_LanderU: so, divide that pulse down to 3V or something, and plonk it into the avr's interrupt pin
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[14:29] <Lunar_LanderU> yea, one moment
[14:29] <Lunar_LanderU> the 9 V pulse was from that other system
[14:29] <mfa298> chasecar apps should be on the page eroomde linked, for last night m1ari_camera_chase was just done using dl-fldigi - but instead of entering static location details I set dl-fldigi to use a gps (mac/linux only)
[14:30] <eroomde> which other system?
[14:30] <G0TDJ_Steve> eroomde: Says the item requested isn't available in this country, but I'll search manually
[14:30] <eroomde> odd
[14:30] <Lunar_LanderU> one moment
[14:30] <eroomde> well anyway it was the link from the wiki page
[14:31] <mfa298> G0TDJ_Steve: there's also http://habhub.org/mt which I think can show your position
[14:31] <Lunar_LanderU> eroomde: http://s.gullipics.com/image/f/2/a/ji1rd83-ktlet1-tcix/Harrison2009.png
[14:31] <Lunar_LanderU> this is not our system
[14:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK I'll have a read up
[14:31] <Lunar_LanderU> but as you can see, there is a line called RESET
[14:31] <mfa298> hmmm, looks like mattbrejza's app is missing from that wiki page.
[14:31] <Lunar_LanderU> and this should input 9 V into that MOSFET there
[14:31] <Lunar_LanderU> one moment
[14:32] <eroomde> 'this' being your oscillator?
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[14:32] <Lunar_LanderU> no, one moment, uploading
[14:33] <Lunar_LanderU> http://s.gullipics.com/image/l/j/9/ji1rd83-ktlew6-y0qt/Harrison2001.png
[14:33] <Lunar_LanderU> ours is based on this
[14:33] <Lunar_LanderU> the oscillator is built around IC2b
[14:33] <Lunar_LanderU> and we don't use IC5, but rather the line under R7 goes to the AVR
[14:33] <Lunar_LanderU> to read out the values
[14:34] <Lunar_LanderU> and B1 is 3V
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[14:36] <Lunar_LanderU> if you hook up the output line to an oscilloscope, you can see the reset pulse as jump from 0 to 3 V
[14:37] <Lunar_LanderU> oh and one more modification, where it says 24V, we have 12V
[14:38] <Lunar_LanderU> eroomde: give me a moment, I can post you an Eagle schematic of our circuit
[14:38] <Lunar_LanderU> that should make life much easier
[14:38] <eroomde> ok
[14:39] <eroomde> but i mean, you are just trying to make a 9V pulse right?
[14:39] <eroomde> I don't really need you to show me a schematic of how to make something that does a 9V pulse :)
[14:39] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
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[14:39] <Lunar_LanderU> well, you see Q2 there
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[14:40] <Lunar_LanderU> that MOSFET has to be actuated to activate the reset cascade comprised by Q1
[14:40] <eroomde> yes
[14:40] <HixWork> weird. all the servers and network have gone down at work yet my socks proxy is still connected - so I'm watching the Tour de France with "no internet"
[14:40] <Lunar_LanderU> and on our system, we send 12 V to the Gate
[14:40] <Lunar_LanderU> and on the other system, it's 9 V
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[14:40] <Lunar_LanderU> but the gate threshold is 0.8-2.5 V according to the datasheet
[14:40] <Lunar_LanderU> so I suppose 3.3V could be OK as well
[14:40] <eroomde> uhuh
[14:41] <eroomde> i'm confused
[14:41] <eroomde> are we just trying to make a microcontroller produce a 12V pulse to reset your circuit?
[14:42] <Lunar_LanderU> http://s.gullipics.com/image/j/m/l/ji1rd83-ktleb7-l321/ElectrometerCircuitDiagram.png
[14:42] <Lunar_LanderU> this is the actual circuit
[14:42] <Lunar_LanderU> one moment
[14:42] <eroomde> jesus lunar
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[14:44] <Lunar_LanderU> so what that opamp does is to turn on the MOSFET every 14 seconds, which then allows the jFETs to turn on, which in turns gives a full scale reading
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[14:44] <Lunar_LanderU> now I think there are two options: 1) sensing that or 2) triggering the MOSFET from the AVR
[14:44] <eroomde> ok, so you want something to turn on that mosfet
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[14:45] <eroomde> i think 2 is easier
[14:45] <eroomde> to my mind anyway
[14:45] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[14:45] <eroomde> it makes sense to just be able to control when you take measurements or not
[14:45] <Lunar_LanderU> that is true
[14:45] <eroomde> so, you need to drive the gate of the mosfet with how many volts?
[14:45] <Lunar_LanderU> ok, datasheet says
[14:46] <Lunar_LanderU> gate-source threshold 0.8-2.5V
[14:46] <eroomde> yes but that's the threshold voltage
[14:46] <eroomde> which just sort of flirts with turning it on
[14:46] <eroomde> you want to really turn it on properly
[14:46] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[14:47] <eroomde> so you want to put many more volts in
[14:47] <eroomde> do you have a 9 or 12V supply available somewhere on your payload?
[14:47] <Lunar_LanderU> yes, as you can see on the schematic there is a 12V battery
[14:47] <Lunar_LanderU> which supplies IC2 also
[14:47] <eroomde> ok
[14:47] <eroomde> so i'd use that
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[14:48] <Lunar_LanderU> yea, so we imitate what the oscillator has been doing
[14:48] <Lunar_LanderU> sending 12 V into the MOSFET gate
[14:49] <eroomde> cool
[14:49] <eroomde> yes
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[14:49] <Lunar_LanderU> so that needs to be switched as well, right?
[14:49] <eroomde> yes
[14:49] <eroomde> you need a transistor to supply 12V to the mosfet gate
[14:50] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[14:50] <eroomde> that you can activate with the microcntroller's 3.3V
[14:50] <Lunar_LanderU> like the logic level mosfet I used on my cutdown? that also had a 3.3V arduino
[14:51] <eroomde> i'd not bother with fets for this
[14:51] <eroomde> it's really a job for a simple bipolar transistor
[14:51] <eroomde> BC847 or something
[14:51] <Lunar_LanderU> ok, thanks
[14:51] <eroomde> so you want say a 10k base resistor
[14:52] <eroomde> and a 10k resistor between the emitter and ground
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[14:52] <eroomde> and connect the collector to 12V
[14:52] <eroomde> and connect the emitter, just above that emitter resistor, to the mosfet gate
[14:52] <Lunar_LanderU> ok, keeping leads short then?
[14:53] <eroomde> um ignore what i just said
[14:54] <eroomde> my brain is addled by thinking about something else
[14:54] <eroomde> you want the emitter to gnd
[14:54] <eroomde> and a 10k between 12V and the collector
[14:54] <eroomde> and feed the mosfet gate from between the resistor and the collector
[14:54] <eroomde> and use a 100k resistor on the base
[14:54] <Lunar_LanderU> and the AVR pin goes across that 100k into B
[14:55] <eroomde> you can make a wire sculture of hello-kitty with the leads if you like
[14:55] <eroomde> doesn't make much difference
[14:55] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
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[14:55] <eroomde> yes, so
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[14:55] <eroomde> avrpin----[100k]-----B
[14:55] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[14:56] <eroomde> then 12V----10k--(a)--[C this is the transistor E]--- GND
[14:56] <Lunar_LanderU> and a is the Gate?
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[14:56] <eroomde> where you feed the mosfet gate from (a)
[14:56] <Lunar_LanderU> ok
[14:57] <Piet0r> Big ass powersurge here in Utrecht, Netherlands!
[14:57] <Lunar_LanderU> I think I understood the hardware
[14:57] <Lunar_LanderU> now with the software, we would pull the pin connected to the Base high to reset
[14:57] <Lunar_LanderU> then we lower it to measure and then grab a reading from the analogue pin the output is connected to
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[14:58] <eroomde> sounds reasonable
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[14:59] <Lunar_LanderU> can we like have a 2 sec delay between going high and low in order to have a reasonable pulse duration?
[14:59] <eroomde> yes, that's just software
[14:59] <eroomde> you can have whatever you like
[15:00] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[15:00] <Lunar_LanderU> then grab data and transmit
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[15:00] <eroomde> yep
[15:01] <eroomde> so your string takes 16s to send?
[15:01] <Lunar_LanderU> maybe have an interrupt transmission thing to grab further data to the SD while the TX is busy
[15:01] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
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[15:06] <Lunar_LanderU> at least that is the time difference between the times you can see coming from the GPS
[15:06] <Lunar_LanderU> difference between two successive lines
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[15:13] <Lunar_LanderU> eroomde: why were you asking?
[15:13] <eroomde> you asked for help with your problem
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[15:18] <cyclops> Upu No pricing for the Habduino yet¿
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[15:19] <daveake> Nice shots craag !
[15:21] <eroomde> cyclops: just built a tracker yourself
[15:21] <eroomde> this is the problem with wanting to buy stuff off the shelf
[15:21] <eroomde> you get removed from understanding how things work
[15:21] <eroomde> and it just becomes a transaction
[15:21] <eroomde> it's pointless
[15:21] <eroomde> hab is not a right
[15:22] <eroomde> /rant
[15:22] <Lunar_LanderU> eroomde: ah
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[15:23] <Lunar_LanderU> I thought you were thinking about something related to that and needed the time interval
[15:23] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[15:23] <eroomde> no
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[15:23] <Lunar_LanderU> thank you very much for taking the time :)
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[15:23] <craag> daveake: :)
[15:24] <Lunar_LanderU> was a great help eroomde
[15:25] <cyclops> The problem is
[15:25] <cyclops> My time is limited
[15:25] <cyclops> If I could
[15:25] <cyclops> I would do it all myself
[15:25] <cyclops> I love to do everithing myself
[15:26] <cyclops> But sadly now I need something proven to work as I dont have the time to learn and test
[15:26] <eroomde> Adam and Jon, two cusf member, put together a tracker in 2 hours when they needed one quickly
[15:26] <eroomde> unless you need to launch next week you probably have time
[15:27] <eroomde> it's not a big job
[15:28] <Lunar_LanderU> like Bill Brown
[15:29] <Lunar_LanderU> I remember how he made a tracker on the livestream, then launched
[15:29] <eroomde> people decide it's going to be complicated
[15:29] <eroomde> and then it becomes complicated
[15:29] <eroomde> but if you know it isn't, then it isn't
[15:30] <cyclops> I've tried to find out how to do it myself
[15:30] <eroomde> cyclops: you could have built a tracker by now in the week you've spent asking upu when you can buy his product
[15:30] <cyclops> And I did read a lot of info
[15:30] <cyclops> and tuts
[15:30] <fsphil> Lunar_LanderU: I could do that, but it would be really dull
[15:31] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[15:31] <fsphil> "And here I'm programming a nmea parser ... " *keyboard tapping for 30 minutes*
[15:31] <Lunar_LanderU> :P
[15:31] <eroomde> well actually it might make a good video tutorial
[15:31] <fsphil> actually yea
[15:31] <fsphil> watch me making mistakes
[15:31] <fsphil> see how I debug it
[15:32] <fsphil> bleep out the swearing
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[15:32] <fsphil> (not true.. I keep swearing for moments that really need it)
[15:33] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
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[15:35] <jcoxon> Afternoon
[15:35] Babs__ (~babs@212.183.140.52) joined #highaltitude.
[15:35] <Babs__> Eroomde - you're famous - top hit on Reddit this afternoon
[15:35] <fsphil> howdy jcoxon
[15:35] Action: jcoxon is sitting in the back of an ambulance
[15:36] <fsphil> eek ... as the doctor or patient?
[15:36] <craag> jcoxon: ouch?
[15:36] <jcoxon> Just transferred a patient to London
[15:36] <jcoxon> As the doctor
[15:36] <fsphil> ah phew
[15:36] <jcoxon> now stuck in traffic getting back
[15:37] <eroomde> Babs__: skylon?
[15:37] Action: Martin_G4FUI am just about at the bottom of a nice cold beer :)
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[15:37] <jcoxon> can't blue light :(
[15:37] <craag> Martin_G4FUI: Sounds like a plan!
[15:38] <Babs__> Yes, just a guardian article. But pretty cool in terms of the worldwide interest it is generating. I'll come and raise your next stage of development capital.
[15:38] <Babs__> ;-)
[15:38] <eroomde> don't joke
[15:38] <eroomde> I'm sure alan would be interested!
[15:39] <Babs__> You guys will burn through 60 big ones like nobody's business ;-)
[15:40] <eroomde> well that's only about 25% of what we think we need for the next 3 years
[15:40] <craag> Btw guys if you haven't seen them yet, ground-based photos of Dave's flight last night: https://www.thecraag.com/photos/index.php?album=buzz-zurg-hab-photography/
[15:40] <jcoxon> Fsphil, going to setup the iss rig tonight in anticipation for tomorrow mornings passes
[15:40] <eroomde> the idea is that we can match it sort of 3:1
[15:40] Action: SpeedEvil offers a tenner.
[15:41] <eroomde> thanks
[15:41] <eroomde> i'll engrave you name on the single milspec crimp that'll buy
[15:41] <SpeedEvil> Hah.
[15:41] <fsphil> ooh what time jcoxon? I'll leave an igate running
[15:41] <SpeedEvil> It's all a cunning front for the connector industry.
[15:41] <jcoxon> It's morning I think from 7 till 11
[15:41] <SpeedEvil> Actually - that may cover all of aerospace.
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[15:42] <fsphil> nice one craag
[15:42] <fsphil> you can see the separation between the balloon, chute and payload nicely
[15:43] <fsphil> or payloads
[15:43] <craag> fsphil: Yeah, buzz was a meter or so below the main payload.
[15:43] <Martin_G4FUI> interesting photos craag - suggest you edit the caption for photo #19!
[15:43] <fsphil> kettle and everything
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[15:44] <craag> So that's a 15-20cm polystyrene ball!
[15:44] <craag> Buzz is.
[15:44] <craag> Martin_G4FUI: Cheers.. :/
[15:44] <Babs__> I definitely need to come up and check it out
[15:45] <Martin_G4FUI> craag np
[15:45] <Babs__> The concept has generated so much interest , now is the time to monetize your investment
[15:45] <eroomde> well, give me a buzz if you happen to be local
[15:45] <daveake> Found the problem with ZURG
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[15:45] <daveake> Buzz changed his batteries for old ones
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[15:45] <daveake> ^^ might not be entirely accurate
[15:46] <daveake> Might have been be picking up used ones by mistake
[15:46] <daveake> s/be/me/
[15:46] Nick change: Elijah___ -> Elijah_
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[15:46] <LazyLeopard> Ooops.
[15:46] <daveake> yup
[15:46] <daveake> silly error
[15:46] <daveake> Broke my rule about only using ones that are in a sealed packet
[15:47] <Babs__> Thanks mate - 6 days to I sign my life away - but defo after the honeymoon
[15:47] <eroomde> indeed, i'm in Puglia next week too
[15:47] <eroomde> because it's too cold in england
[15:48] <Martin_G4FUI> daveake, I'm intrigued as to why ZURG was so stable up until the point it died - what tx did you use?
[15:48] <fsphil> uh-oh, the heat has finally got to him
[15:48] <Martin_G4FUI> I'm talking about frequency stability ...
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[15:49] <daveake> Both were rfm22bs. However, ZURG was inside a box with 3 GoPros and a Canon A495. Buzz was on his lonesome in a ball with, it turns out, some gaps where I didn't seal the 2 parts together properly
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[15:50] <Martin_G4FUI> Had the rfms burned a lot of hours during testing?
[15:50] <LazyLeopard> ZURG gave up in the face of heat and electronic competition?
[15:51] <Martin_G4FUI> ZURG seemed to be a happy bunny until ...
[15:51] <LazyLeopard> ...an BUZZ got a little chilly during early stages of descent?
[15:52] <daveake> ZURG died because of old batteries; BUZZ drifted because of cold air
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[15:52] <daveake> So all is explained :)
[15:52] <LazyLeopard> Good. ;)
[15:53] <daveake> Buzz would have been sealed nicely had the hot glue gun not been so hot that the foam just melted ...
[15:53] <UpuWork> my hardware exhonerated
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[15:53] <UpuWork> exonerated even
[15:53] <Martin_G4FUI> In the old days we would just bin old batteries, nowadays we put them on a shelf so they can go in the recycling box ....
[15:53] <daveake> and my firmware for that matter :)
[15:53] <UpuWork> yeah looks like he was wrong
[15:55] <daveake> shocking
[15:56] <cyclops> Guys the various landing predictors
[15:57] <cyclops> For example the one posted un ukhas
[15:57] <cyclops> Do the bear in mind the wind prediction?
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[15:57] <eroomde> that's exactly what they do
[15:57] <eroomde> otherwise it would just go straight up then come back down
[15:57] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
[15:57] <cyclops> For example if I set coordinates other than the defined spots"
[15:57] <eroomde> on the same spot
[15:57] <craag> cyclops: Several GBs of wind data!
[15:57] <cyclops> Of all the world
[15:58] <cyclops> or only UK?
[15:58] <eroomde> it pulls global forecast data in several times a day
[15:58] <eroomde> GBs and GBs as craag says
[15:58] <cyclops> Global ok
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> They all take detailed recent weatehr forecasts, and preduct out from the launch position what parcels of air a balloon will move through, and how they will affect it.
[15:58] <eroomde> for the whole world
[15:58] <eroomde> anywhere
[15:58] <cyclops> I doubted if only UK
[15:58] <cyclops> Was the data from
[15:58] <cyclops> Perfect
[15:58] <eroomde> the gloabl forecase system
[15:58] <eroomde> er
[15:58] <eroomde> global forecast system*
[15:58] <cyclops> Ah and eroomde BTW
[15:59] <cyclops> I have another reason for getting the Habduino
[15:59] <cyclops> instead of making it myself
[15:59] <cyclops> The fact is that the launch
[16:00] <cyclops> Is for a High School project trying to demostrate that with low resources and knowledge
[16:00] <cyclops> Its possible to experiment near space
[16:00] <cyclops> And also that schools could use this system
[16:00] <cyclops> So offering a nearly "off the shelf" product gives the project a big punch
[16:00] <cyclops> onwards
[16:00] <eroomde> fair enough
[16:01] <cyclops> Believe me
[16:01] <cyclops> If I hadnt found the Habduino
[16:01] <cyclops> I would have made the tracker myself
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[16:02] <Elijah_> 'morning all
[16:02] <cyclops> Well OFFtopic
[16:02] <cyclops> So once I start getting the RTTY from the tracker
[16:02] <cyclops> If I have internet connection
[16:02] <S_Mark> Hello All - super sorry that I have been signing in and out all day, saw on the logs that it was quite frequent! Defo off now, catch you later!
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[16:03] <cyclops> I can upload data to space near and everyone will be able to follow the balloon?
[16:03] <S_Mark> laptop troubles
[16:03] <craag> cyclops: That's the idea.
[16:03] <SpeedEvil> cyclops: Yes.
[16:03] <craag> Dl-fldigi will automatically upload good data.
[16:04] <SpeedEvil> cyclops: And if you use a compatible radio, and are in range, many other people can receive your packets.
[16:04] <SpeedEvil> Which can at times be handy.
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[16:05] <cyclops> SpeedEvil yea but they will have to be spaniards
[16:06] <cyclops> And I dont think a lot of people can receive the packets where I plan to launch
[16:06] <cyclops> But ill get in touch with them
[16:06] <eroomde> considered APRS instead?
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> Well, a high flying balloon over spain mal be picked up over england, I'd think.
[16:06] <cyclops> And inform about the launch
[16:06] Action: SpeedEvil would need to check.
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> But pickups of high flying balloons are almost useless from a practical POV
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> If you want to recover it.
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[16:08] <cyclops> Well i do want to recover
[16:08] <cyclops> You say it may travel from spain to UK?
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[16:09] <DL7AD> good morning
[16:09] <SpeedEvil> A balloon at 35000m can be recieved a long way away
[16:09] <cyclops> well Its in sourh spain
[16:10] <cyclops> Summer so less wind
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[16:10] <cyclops> and the zone is not very windy
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> Then that's unlikely
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[16:10] <cyclops> Ive run predictions that told it will fall about 20 km from launch site
[16:10] <cyclops> Doing a V sahape
[16:11] <eroomde> what ascent and descent and burst altitudes did you use?
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[16:12] <cyclops> dafault
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[16:12] <eroomde> right
[16:12] <eroomde> nice conditions
[16:13] <cyclops> yes its really hot and dry
[16:14] <cyclops> about 34ºc
[16:14] <eroomde> it's not far from that here currently
[16:14] <eroomde> but this is unusual
[16:14] <cm13g09> for those complaining about the heat....
[16:15] <cm13g09> I work in an air conditioned office ;)
[16:15] <cyclops> yeeeee
[16:15] <cyclops> my funcube
[16:15] <cyclops> just arrived by fedex
[16:15] <cyclops> I ordered it yesterday
[16:16] <cyclops> woa really fast
[16:16] <mattbrejza> cm13g09: http://i.imgur.com/Bc4bUYe.jpg my 'aircon'
[16:16] <cm13g09> lol
[16:16] <cm13g09> mattbrejza: but then it would be
[16:17] <cm13g09> the Uni don't understand temperatures above 20C, and much colder than 10C
[16:17] <mattbrejza> i wonder what b34 is like atm, thats supposed to be really bad
[16:18] <cm13g09> lol
[16:18] <cyclops> Great i have a funcube but no antenna
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[16:18] <cm13g09> you should ask Clayton about B35 ;)
[16:18] <cm13g09> (if you know who Clayton is ;) )
[16:18] <mattbrejza> i might have to go and 'borrow' some Liq CO2 from chemistry
[16:18] <mattbrejza> according to denis you can get it no qns asked
[16:18] <cm13g09> lol
[16:18] <mattbrejza> or was that LN2
[16:18] <mattbrejza> either way
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[16:19] <mattbrejza> he also might have been taking without asking
[16:19] <cm13g09> indeed
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[16:24] <Willdude123> Hey yall
[16:24] <craag> yo, how ya doin?
[16:28] <Willdude123> Fine
[16:28] <Willdude123> craag: I got the radio working with checksums.
[16:29] <Willdude123> I will start on the UBX after a break, because I need a brief break from the frustration.
[16:30] <cyclops> goys
[16:30] <Willdude123> goys?
[16:30] <cyclops> cant use a funcube dongle without antenna can i?
[16:30] <Willdude123> Yeah
[16:30] <Willdude123> You can, for testing.
[16:30] <fsphil> you could, but only for a strong nearby signal for testing
[16:30] <craag> Willdude123: Good news!
[16:30] <cyclops> :D
[16:31] <cyclops> Perfect my antenas are on the way
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[16:31] <Willdude123> craag: What is it? :P
[16:32] <craag> Willdude123: You getting radio tx + checksums working!
[16:32] <cyclops> only batteries cameras micro sd and ballon left to order
[16:32] <Willdude123> Jk
[16:32] <craag> :P
[16:33] <craag> I've spent 3 hours staring at white blobs on blue backgrounds.. my brains a bit fried.
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[16:33] <Willdude123> craag: Why?
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[16:34] <craag> Photos of Dave's balloon last night. Had 407 RAW photos to process, select and crop. Done now though :)
[16:35] <arko> :D
[16:35] <cyclops> do you usuarry load coemras on payloads?
[16:35] <cyclops> *usually *cameras
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[16:35] <fsphil> you went all japanese there for a moment
[16:36] <cyclops> :P
[16:36] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: you really need to me order this RTLSDR among other things, right?
[16:36] <cm13g09> and get a tracking station up?
[16:36] LeoBodnar (51932a7b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.147.42.123) left irc:
[16:37] <chrisstubbs> cm13g09, yeah! ;)
[16:38] <chrisstubbs> Could probably do with a nice new laptop too
[16:38] <chrisstubbs> some servers
[16:38] <chrisstubbs> 150ft antenna mast
[16:38] <cm13g09> lol
[16:38] <cm13g09> wishful thinking ;)
[16:38] <chrisstubbs> lol
[16:39] <chrisstubbs> would you have anywhere to put a sof off great yagi at home?
[16:39] <cm13g09> I wish
[16:39] <cm13g09> I have a hard enough time getting an antenna up!
[16:39] <chrisstubbs> lol
[16:39] <chrisstubbs> I have some temp. masts now that i could put the yagi on
[16:40] <chrisstubbs> not in this heat though, had enough trouble getting up off my chair
[16:40] <cm13g09> I agree it's hot
[16:40] <cm13g09> too hot
[16:41] <Steffanx> The weather is never good uh? :P
[16:41] <cm13g09> lol
[16:42] <cm13g09> I'm going and living in the server room at work for the next 6 weeks ;)
[16:42] <cm13g09> if the weather stays like this!
[16:43] <Steffanx> Get some ear plugs
[16:43] <cm13g09> Steffanx: yes, already packed for next week ;)
[16:43] <cm13g09> right chrisstubbs
[16:44] <cm13g09> I've ordered the RTLSDR
[16:44] <cm13g09> When are you flying next?
[16:44] <chrisstubbs> Oo cool :)
[16:44] <chrisstubbs> Well im helping matt in cambridge on sunday
[16:44] <Lunar_LanderU> hi chrisstubbs
[16:44] <cm13g09> I'm out :(
[16:44] <chrisstubbs> probably going to do some picos in the week. I have 2 foils left and he has a shed load of helium
[16:45] <cm13g09> and RTLSDR might not be there by then
[16:45] <cm13g09> ok, would they be mornings or afternoons?
[16:45] <cm13g09> (I'm working 8-4 ;) )
[16:45] <chrisstubbs> Afternoons probably
[16:45] <chrisstubbs> 4.30pm ish?
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[16:45] <cm13g09> lol - sounds like a good idea ;)
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[16:45] <chrisstubbs> might go all Leo and do a late evening
[16:46] <cm13g09> I'll let you know as soon as the SDR turns up
[16:46] <chrisstubbs> hello Lunar_LanderU
[16:46] <chrisstubbs> awesome :D
[16:46] <cm13g09> I'm hoping I have enough computing power here
[16:46] <cm13g09> that I can get some kind of web-tracker up
[16:46] <chrisstubbs> May have been a slight bug in my recording code for sunday. i ahve 186 6 second long clips
[16:46] <cm13g09> so you can tune it as needed....
[16:46] <chrisstubbs> awesome!#
[16:47] <chrisstubbs> I might set up a splitter one day and set my SDR up on the server
[16:47] <chrisstubbs> Does websdr run on windows?
[16:47] <cm13g09> no idea
[16:48] <cm13g09> I'm a linux house ;)
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[16:48] <craag> chrisstubbs: no
[16:48] <costyn> hello
[16:48] <costyn> so what happened to B-6?
[16:48] <chrisstubbs> darn :P
[16:48] <costyn> when did it die?
[16:48] <craag> costyn: Battery ran out
[16:48] <craag> Early last night
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[16:50] <arko> candlelight vigil is being held tonight
[16:55] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: I'm out all Sat/Sun/Mon
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[16:55] <cm13g09> so earliest I'll be able to set up and test is Tuesday
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[16:57] <costyn> craag: thx :)
[16:58] <Lunar_LanderU> see you all later :)
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[16:58] <chrisstubbs> Ok no probs
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[16:58] <chrisstubbs> we will probably go for mid week and end week
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[17:06] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuljrfVVUM4
[17:07] <stilldavid> what's it take to get a "team futaba" shirt, I wonder
[17:07] <LeoBodnar> Rolling shutter imagers must be banned
[17:07] <stilldavid> other than those mad skills
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[17:13] Action: SpeedEvil was reading stilldavids line on a phone, which quite changed its meaning.
[17:19] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: cool
[17:19] <cm13g09> that gives me the mid-week to find your payload at all/test if it works
[17:19] <cm13g09> and end-week to actually do some tracking ;)
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[17:21] <Elijah_> nice flying
[17:24] <cm13g09> hmm
[17:24] <cm13g09> Markee has just turned up....
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[17:31] <cyclops> hi again
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[17:33] <Upu> hey cyclops
[17:33] <cyclops> Upu one quest
[17:33] <Upu> shoot
[17:33] <cyclops> Will it be possible to atach an external temp/other sensor
[17:34] <cyclops> to the Habd?
[17:34] <cyclops> So it also sends its data to the receiver
[17:34] <Upu> Answer : yes (another DS18B20 - already has one on board) / yes most pins are broken out
[17:34] <Upu> I have made a boo
[17:34] <Upu> I put the red LED where the green one should go :)
[17:35] <cyclops> Perfect :D
[17:35] <Willdude123> Upu: With the habduino ,you said the leds would turn off above a certain altitude. What if the GPS malfunctions?
[17:35] <Upu> on the upside with the step up converter and the MAX7 it looks like a run time of 24 hours from 2 x AA
[17:35] <Upu> yeah Willdude123 1000 meters
[17:35] <cyclops> I want to put also a pressure sensor
[17:35] <Upu> if the GPS malfunctions no one up there to notice
[17:36] <cyclops> XD
[17:36] <arko> does it make a sound?
[17:36] <cyclops> 24Hours is a great bat life
[17:36] <Upu> no buzzer on it
[17:36] <cyclops> Just received my Funcube dongle Upu
[17:36] <Upu> but could have if you want to get deep and meaningful arko
[17:36] <Upu> super cyclops
[17:36] <arko> haha
[17:36] <cyclops> I dont know what fedex did
[17:36] <cyclops> From UK to spain
[17:37] <Upu> what coun...
[17:37] <cyclops> in about 12 hours
[17:37] <Upu> Spain thx
[17:37] <Upu> Are you a radio amateur ?
[17:37] <cyclops> Not a lot
[17:37] <cyclops> Well no
[17:37] <Upu> do you have a license i.e are you considering using APRS ?
[17:37] <arko> what is a sound really? well according to Bertrand Russell
[17:37] <arko> ..
[17:37] <cyclops> I asked if APRS was better
[17:38] <cyclops> But I was Told RTTY is faster
[17:38] <cyclops> and ill receive more info
[17:38] <Upu> this does both at the same time
[17:38] <Upu> but you need an amateur license to use it
[17:38] <arko> you really should get a license
[17:38] <Upu> APRS that is
[17:38] <cyclops> Can the funcube
[17:38] <cyclops> receive APRS?
[17:38] <Upu> don't see why not
[17:39] <cyclops> same 70cm/2m antenna?
[17:39] <Upu> yes you need separate antennas to TX from though
[17:40] <cyclops> so the HABduino sends both?
[17:40] <arko> i'd recieved aprs on my RTL-USB
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[17:41] <cyclops> BTW Upu estimated price for the Habduino?
[17:41] <Upu> I need to do that bit
[17:42] <Upu> it will be less than £100 delivered
[17:42] <Upu> the radio is £40
[17:42] <Upu> how much less I need to work out as at the moment I've only bought bits in 1's & 2's for it
[17:43] <chrisstubbs> Oh right is this LMT2?
[17:43] <Upu> Yes
[17:43] <chrisstubbs> Cool
[17:43] <Upu> also I have a PCB here with an LMT2 on it and a 16 bit DAC
[17:43] <cyclops> As soon as you have ready to ship
[17:43] <cyclops> contact me
[17:43] <Upu> which may make it onto V2 of Habdunio as that will open up MFSK modes
[17:43] <Upu> http://imgur.com/a/wNYMz#0
[17:43] <cyclops> Upu as I am reading it seems I dont need a license here in spain
[17:43] <cyclops> For APRS
[17:43] <Upu> you do need a license to transmit APRS
[17:43] <cyclops> At least for what I want to do
[17:44] <Upu> not for RTTY
[17:44] <Upu> but defo for APRS
[17:44] <Upu> ok I need to afk
[17:44] <Upu> bbl
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[18:02] <cyclops> RTTY doesnt need repeaters?
[18:02] <chrisstubbs> cyclops, no
[18:02] <cyclops> just to be on the safe
[18:02] <cyclops> side
[18:02] <chrisstubbs> you decode it using your PC and it uploads to habitat to be displayed on the map
[18:03] <cyclops> Nice
[18:05] <cyclops> And thats the fun cube dongle + lap task
[18:11] <craag> It is useful to have a few people around decoding and uploading it though.
[18:12] <craag> It does mean if your laptop crashes while the balloon is coming down, someone else can still decode!
[18:13] <cyclops> I ordered a second cheap
[18:13] <cyclops> SDR USB
[18:14] <cyclops> and antenna
[18:14] <cyclops> just in case
[18:15] <fsphil> just spotted on gpsl: http://www.space.com/20837-comet-ison-balloon-mission.html
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[18:28] <arko> oh neat
[18:28] <x-f> a test before eclipse HAB
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[18:38] <arko> is it going to be visible from the ground?
[18:38] <arko> i'd be cool to see a HAB attempt to snap a shot, even if its a spec
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[18:45] <fsphil> the balloon or the comet?
[18:45] <x-f> ISON is predicted to be a very spectacular comet and it will be visible in the Northern hemisphere
[18:45] <fsphil> both hopefully
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[18:46] <fsphil> looking forward to it. the last bright comet passed when I had manflu, and couldn't go outside to see it
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[18:48] <arko> the comet
[18:49] <fsphil> hart to predict, but should be a good one
[18:49] <fsphil> hard*
[18:50] <arko> ya
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[18:52] <arko> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57594322-1/69-year-experiment-captures-pitch-tar-drop/
[18:52] <arko> neat
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[18:58] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah back again :)
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, thanks again for helping this afternoon
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> I think I will try to combine that change in hardware and also try out the interrupt transmission
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[19:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Evening
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[19:37] <Markee> Looking for advice with with NTX transmitters
[19:38] <Markee> that's I'm looking for some advice!!
[19:38] <fsphil> is it advice you're after? :)
[19:39] <fsphil> what do you want to know?
[19:39] <number10> here is a start http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:radio_modules:ntx2?s[]=ntx2
[19:41] <Markee> Hi, I've built a payload transmitter, Microchip controller, BLOX Max-6Q and NTX-2 transmitter, what distance will I be able to test it to at ground level before sending it skywards?
[19:41] <fsphil> as far as you can get line of sight
[19:42] <fsphil> around buildings, I've got about 2km but one of the antennas was quite high up
[19:42] <fsphil> so expect less
[19:44] <Markee> Hmmm not sure how far it will work, I left the transmitter in the house and went about 3km up a hill with line of site, and although I could see the signal couldn't get tuned in enough to decode, so not confident yet!!
[19:46] <fsphil> what sort of antenna did you have at both ends?
[19:49] <Markee> wire on the transmitter, but not cut it down yet, the other end a DVB-T+DAB+FM with the naff aerial it came, recommendations?
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[20:13] <fsphil> Markee: yea you need a 70cm antenna
[20:13] <fsphil> the thing that comes with those is not good at all
[20:13] <fsphil> I use this: http://cpc.farnell.com/watson/wsm-270/wsm-270-mini-mag-antenna/dp/IT44456
[20:13] <fsphil> for the rtl-sdr receivers I'd also suggest using a habamp
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[20:27] <Markee> Thanks, I'll take a look, I'm using SDRsharp and Dl-fldigi which seems quite reliable
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[20:30] <cyclops> hi!
[20:33] <Upu> hey cyclops
[20:33] <fsphil> yes sdrsharp is a nice program
[20:33] <cyclops> you are allways the only one who says hello :P
[20:33] <fsphil> hiya cyclops :p
[20:33] <cyclops> :D
[20:34] <cyclops> BTW upu ive been looking at APRS
[20:34] <Upu> yup
[20:34] <cyclops> And i dont think i can get the license on time
[20:34] <arko> HI CYCLOPS
[20:34] <cyclops> ill ask some friends
[20:34] <cyclops> Hi arko !
[20:34] <Upu> cyclops http://i.imgur.com/6vshE4v.jpg
[20:34] <S_Mark> Hello
[20:34] <Upu> another pic :)
[20:34] <arko> ooo
[20:34] <cyclops> But would it be possible just not to send Info via APRS
[20:34] <Upu> hey S_Mark
[20:34] <cyclops> Only rtty?
[20:35] <Upu> absolutely yes
[20:35] <Upu> thats what it does by default
[20:35] <Upu> the APRS is an option
[20:35] <cyclops> nice
[20:35] <cyclops> Looks awsome
[20:35] <cyclops> is everithing working smoothly?
[20:35] <Upu> yep just got the LED's switched over
[20:35] <Upu> I'll fix tomorrow
[20:36] <cyclops> Maybe ill be distributing the Habduino in Spain
[20:36] <cyclops> So school can do Simple HAB
[20:36] <Upu> I can ship to Spain no issues :)
[20:36] <cyclops> And teach their students
[20:36] <Upu> but yes this is basically why I made it
[20:36] <chrisstubbs> Evening mark
[20:36] <cyclops> And thats why I want it
[20:36] <Upu> if I get time tomorrow I'll price it up
[20:36] <Upu> I need to get some pins for the power plug
[20:37] <cyclops> Nice
[20:37] <S_Mark> Just to let everyone know, we are doing a presentation on Saturday at AMSAT-UK about our HAB project so far
[20:37] <Upu> yup S_Mark
[20:37] <Upu> if you're coming to the conference don't watch it ? :)
[20:37] <cyclops> After launch ill talk to my High School Director
[20:37] <cyclops> And see if he is interested
[20:37] <S_Mark> haha
[20:38] <S_Mark> We'll see, one might be enough for Cassie lol
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[20:38] <ibanezmatt13> good evening
[20:38] <cyclops> Ill be here tomorrow upu waiting for your pricing :P
[20:39] <Upu> lol no promises cyclops
[20:39] <Upu> evening Matt
[20:39] <cyclops> just in case
[20:39] <cyclops> im kinda impatient
[20:39] <S_Mark> hey chrisstubbs
[20:39] <Upu> I know but I need to test this really
[20:39] <ibanezmatt13> I'm afraid I kinda need some more of those wires Upu... :\ They're so fragile
[20:39] <Upu> properly
[20:39] <Upu> hehe
[20:40] <Upu> did the wire come out of the crimp ?
[20:40] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, only one of them though
[20:40] <Upu> nps I'll make up some more tomorrow
[20:40] <ibanezmatt13> Though guess a few spare would be a safe bet if it's ok. No rush though, I'm off to spain at 3AM tomorrow
[20:40] <ibanezmatt13> Thank you very much
[20:41] <cyclops> Upu the weight including bats is about..?
[20:41] <S_Mark> ok back to writing
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[20:41] <Upu> good question checking
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> evening anthony
[20:42] <ibanezmatt13> I really ought to get off to bed, can't believe I'm up at 3am. Night all, thanks Upu :)
[20:42] <cyclops> is for ordering the ballon and helium
[20:42] <Upu> 63g for the Arduino + HABduino board with a stub antenna on there
[20:42] <cyclops> cya ibanezmatt13
[20:43] <ibanezmatt13> bye :)
[20:43] <cyclops> Spain is wonderfull
[20:43] <Upu> 30g for the active patch antenna
[20:43] <ibanezmatt13> a bit hot though cyclops
[20:43] <Upu> batteries + holder ~ 25g
[20:43] <cyclops> I know i live in spain
[20:43] <cyclops> :P
[20:43] <cyclops> 30 degrees right now
[20:43] <cyclops> Thanks Upu
[20:44] <ibanezmatt13> cool, I'm coming into Alicante but driving from there down to Almeria cyclops. Pretty hot
[20:44] <cyclops> ~130g
[20:44] <cyclops> Yeah
[20:44] <cyclops> Im now in Granada
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> cool. Yeah really better go. Night :)
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[20:45] <cyclops> So 130g Tracker + 60G cameras = less than 200g
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, a short question regarding the TX on the habduino
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> does it do RTTY just like the NTX2?
[20:48] <x-f> cyclops, + antenna, + the box
[20:48] <cyclops> Antenna included
[20:48] <cyclops> Only box left
[20:48] <x-f> cyclops, why do you need to rush it so bad?
[20:48] <Upu> No Lunar_Lander
[20:48] <cyclops> So total payload would be about 350-400G
[20:48] <Upu> it uses PWM to do it
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:49] <cyclops> Rush what?
[20:49] <x-f> your launch
[20:49] <cyclops> Well
[20:49] <cyclops> Im on holydais now
[20:49] <cyclops> *holidays
[20:50] <cyclops> August in spain is awfull to get parts
[20:50] <cyclops> The latest i can launch is 23 august
[20:50] <cyclops> And I started the project early this month
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, but the code in your interrupt seems to be generic to RFM22 and the LMT2 and so on?
[20:51] <x-f> why 23rd? a special date?
[20:51] <cyclops> After holydais I have to give the draft of the project
[20:51] <x-f> ah, i get
[20:51] <cyclops> Well I launch in the south of spain
[20:52] <cyclops> But live in the north
[20:52] <cyclops> By 23August I leave
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[20:52] <Upu> Well yes lunar, NTX2 you go high or low, LMT2 drive via PWM , RFM twiddle the frequency register, the end result is the same
[20:52] <cyclops> So my time is limited
[20:52] <cyclops> And thats wy Im so annoying
[20:52] <x-f> :)
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:53] <cyclops> At least I only have left to order the batts, helium and balloon
[20:53] <cyclops> And of course Habduino
[20:53] <Upu> www.randomengineering.co.uk for the balloons
[20:54] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander: check the swift code too, it does something similar
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> so in the habduino code, rtty_txbit has the PWM for the LMT2, but for an NTX2 you would have the digitalWrite(RADIOPIN, HIGH); and LOW respectively?
[20:54] <x-f> don't forget the chute
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, thanks
[20:54] <cyclops> Yeah upu thats were i am going to buy
[20:55] <cyclops> look thats the cammera im gonna use http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__17200__HD_Wing_Camera_1280x720p_30fps_5MP_CMOS.html
[20:56] <fsphil> have you got the camera?
[20:56] <cyclops> 2 on the way
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[20:56] <fsphil> do test that the cameras don't interfere with the GPS receiver
[20:56] <fsphil> it's been known to happen
[20:56] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good evening guys :-)
[20:57] <fsphil> howdy Steve
[20:57] <Upu> reason I picked an active patch for the Habduino
[20:57] <x-f> good evening
[20:57] <Upu> evening Steve
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[20:57] <cyclops> the 1080p does interfere with the 433Mhz band
[20:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nicw welcome :D
[20:57] <cyclops> But this one is intended for Aeromedelism
[20:57] <cyclops> So i believe not
[20:58] <chrisstubbs> that camera looks like it has a little vibration motor on the front :/
[20:58] <cyclops> yes
[20:59] <cyclops> It is for you to know that its turning on
[20:59] <cyclops> no other use
[20:59] <chrisstubbs> how odd
[20:59] <cyclops> in theory the batt last for 3.5 hours of recording
[20:59] <cyclops> so i think enough
[21:00] <fsphil> if it has a lipo battery it might not last that long
[21:00] <fsphil> though the camera should keep itself warm
[21:00] <cyclops> otherwise
[21:01] <fsphil> lipo's don't like being cold
[21:01] <cyclops> i think that i could easily detach the batt and use Energizer lithium
[21:01] <Upu> ping craag
[21:01] <fsphil> that would work
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[21:01] <cyclops> BTW The Energither Ultimate Have about 3000mah?
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[21:02] <cyclops> *energizer
[21:02] <Upu> exactly 3000mah
[21:02] <cyclops> and the camera bat is 850mah
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> btw I had a Ultimate Lithium AAA in my MP3 player
[21:02] <cyclops> so i bat for the two
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> that was awesome
[21:03] <cyclops> *1 bat
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> today it stopped as the battery ran out, but I had it running for 2 weeks I think
[21:03] <cyclops> Whoa im glad i found these cameras
[21:03] <cyclops> Lunar_Lander Awsome!
[21:03] <cyclops> Otherwise i would have bought some canon from ebay to hack
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[21:04] <cyclops> With increased weight and batt
[21:04] <cyclops> These only 32g
[21:04] <chrisstubbs> cyclops, you will probably find the quality of the image from a cannon compact would be better than a tiny camera like that
[21:05] <cyclops> I do know, as the lens has no comparation point
[21:05] <chrisstubbs> But at 720p it should be reasonable
[21:05] <cyclops> But for the price and use
[21:05] <cyclops> And 5MP photos
[21:05] <cyclops> 1 will be recording
[21:05] <cyclops> the other Photos every X secs
[21:06] <cyclops> So in case one fails I have the other
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[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> cyclops, see this easy example
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[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/a/7/x/5yv9lo-ktmw4d-xf8y/IMG8071.jpeg
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> ah no, not that one
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> hang on
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[21:07] <cyclops> XD
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/7/t/g/5yv9lo-ktmw6h-vvey/IMG8188.jpeg
[21:09] <cyclops> AWSOME
[21:09] <cyclops> what is the straw for?
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> ah that was a part of the antenna
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> like a protection for one of the ground plane wires
[21:10] <cyclops> which camera did you use?
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> Canon PowerShot A490
[21:11] <cyclops> 10MP
[21:12] <cyclops> my photo will be half
[21:14] <cyclops> I hope i can take pictures like that
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:15] <cyclops> And video
[21:15] <cyclops> BTW what do you think
[21:15] <cyclops> Should I record the from the bottom or side?
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[21:18] <cyclops> to see the descent from bottom or sided
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[21:19] <SpeedEvil> If you point the camera portrait - a little above horizontal at the top edge - you get both
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[21:21] <cyclops> abobe horizontal
[21:21] <cyclops> *above
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[21:27] <cyclops> i hate wifi...
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[21:30] <cyclops> time to go
[21:30] <cyclops> thanks all for your help
[21:30] <cyclops> Its very appreciated
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[21:34] <Willdude123> Hi
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[21:56] <Willdude123> Anyone here?
[21:56] <S_Mark> no
[21:56] <x-f> where?
[21:57] <fsphil> I'm there
[21:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> Under the stair?
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[21:57] <fsphil> yes, right there
[21:57] <S_Mark> hi Lunar_Lander
[21:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Lunar_Lander and others
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> hi
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[21:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> 42
[21:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh no, that's just the answer....
[21:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> Erm, life... Well. I'd have to say it hasn't lived up to my expectations LOL
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:59] <S_Mark> Good thank you!
[22:00] <G0TDJ_Steve> It's not all bad. HOw about you?
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> mine is OK as well
[22:00] <G0TDJ_Steve> GOod stuff :-)
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> discussed a lot about interrupts on AVR the last days here
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> an interesting idea
[22:01] <S_Mark> ah really
[22:01] <S_Mark> need to look into interrupts asap
[22:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> Interrupts, fantastic things
[22:02] <S_Mark> yeah heard good things, gets you reliable timigs?
[22:02] <Willdude123> I really don't understand interrupt rtty,
[22:03] <Willdude123> Can someone explain it?
[22:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> Well, I can't claim to be an expert. Not sure about the timings but they can be very useful
[22:03] <S_Mark> cool I will have a read soon
[22:04] <fsphil> there are many good explanations of interrupts online
[22:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> Careful, you'll get addicted LOL "Oh no I HAVE to use interrupts"
[22:05] <fsphil> starting with that
[22:07] <db_g6gzh_> http://i.imgur.com/6vshE4v.jpg
[22:07] <Willdude123> Okay, so how is it applicable to rtty?
[22:08] <Willdude123> Surely you can't quit txing to go have a cuppa.
[22:08] <S_Mark> bookmarked
[22:08] <fsphil> you're looking at it backwards
[22:09] <S_Mark> It isnt anything to do with rtty is it really
[22:09] <fsphil> you interrupt what you're doing to do the rtty
[22:09] <S_Mark> its to do with your software
[22:09] <fsphil> but read that page, learn what interrupts are first
[22:09] <fsphil> then realise that the avr's timer can trigger interrupts
[22:09] <fsphil> it all falls into place after that :)
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[22:10] <fsphil> db_g6gzh_: snazzy
[22:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> IIRC Because the interrupts are triggered with clock pulses, you can get precise timings from them, Is that right guys?
[22:11] <db_g6gzh_> not sure how I pasted that here, but at least it's on topic
[22:11] <eroomde> several things can trigger interrupts
[22:11] <eroomde> including clocks/timers
[22:11] <eroomde> you can also have pulses on microcontroller pins
[22:11] <eroomde> the reset pin is a special-case interrupt
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[22:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yes, of course (remembering now) Hardware and software interrupts
[22:12] <eroomde> it makes the program instruction counter jump to 0, as opposed to other interrupts which make it jump to some bit of code you define
[22:12] <gonzo__> you can't rti from that!
[22:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'll have to design a payload with a Z80, I@ll be OK then ROTFL
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[22:14] <eroomde> nowt wrong with that
[22:14] <fsphil> I'll probably end up doing a 6502 payload
[22:14] <eroomde> avrs are pretty overspecced for just basic gps->rtty
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> ok now the jackpot question
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> can you have delays in loop() while an interrupt is running RTTY?
[22:15] <eroomde> you don
[22:15] <eroomde> whoops
[22:15] <eroomde> you'll stop using delay functions when you have interrupts
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> the thing was about the reset mechanism we discussed earlier
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> that the transistor should be ON for some time, like 1 sec
[22:18] <eroomde> uhuh
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[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> let me guess
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> use the millis function like in "blink without delay"?
[22:19] <eroomde> forget anything and everything about arduinos
[22:19] <eroomde> and millis functions
[22:19] <eroomde> and whatever
[22:20] <eroomde> that just is a dead-end
[22:20] <eroomde> learn about interrupts properly
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:20] <eroomde> then you wouldn't have to ask the question
[22:20] <eroomde> read all of the tutorials on the fourwalledcubicle site that people keep linking to
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:20] <eroomde> http://www.fourwalledcubicle.com/AVRArticles.php
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I read Interrupts and USART so far
[22:20] <eroomde> all of it
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> now I am at USART Interrupts
[22:21] <eroomde> it answers all your questions
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> but if I may ask that one thing now
[22:21] <eroomde> no
[22:21] <eroomde> you need to do some research and hard work
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:21] <fsphil> and try things. write code
[22:21] <eroomde> good
[22:21] <eroomde> the end
[22:21] <fsphil> writing code is the best way to learn
[22:22] <eroomde> this is the tough-love approach to trying to fix the constant stream of asking-the-wrong-questions
[22:22] <eroomde> progress is much faster once you accept that irc is not the answer
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> like I figured out for myself that hydrodynamics is probably the cause of the strange behaviour for my b.sc. project
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> (which is a sample deliverer for a EPR spectrometer, so something else)
[22:24] <eroomde> good. thinking is a useful technique for problem solving
[22:24] <eroomde> i find
[22:24] <Willdude123> fsphil, hasn't fallen into place.
[22:24] <fsphil> youtube is not. sadly
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> and our vice chief was quite surprised and impressed by that approach, as it is plausible
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:24] <fsphil> funny videos of cats doesn't always help
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[22:24] <fsphil> unless I'm trying to tease the dog
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> I already have an idea and i'll try it on the hardware tomorrow
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:25] <fsphil> Willdude123: that's because you ignore advice :)
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[22:26] <Willdude123> fsphil: I've read it.
[22:27] <Willdude123> It's difficult to understand how it's, ah wait is it pausing the radio for a bit while you poll the gps or something?
[22:28] <fsphil> you're going ahead of yourself
[22:28] <fsphil> forget radios
[22:28] <fsphil> forget gps
[22:28] <fsphil> just understand what the cpu is doing
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[22:29] <Willdude123> ok
[22:30] <Willdude123> So it's like what I do with my homework.
[22:30] <eroomde> make a really simply toy problem. like making an LED blink via a timer that is interrupting
[22:31] <eroomde> that's the best way to learn. get a simple model you cabn fit in your head, understand, and then gradually add too as your understanding improves
[22:31] <Willdude123> I start it, then pause it to go on ksp or talk on irc. Then a few hours later, I come back to it.
[22:31] <eroomde> carrying on for an hour when it gets really confusing or annoying is usually the best and most productive time
[22:32] <eroomde> it doesn't seem so at the time
[22:32] <eroomde> but it does later
[22:32] <Willdude123> eroomde I don't really understamd the ting you said with the leds.
[22:32] <Willdude123> Anyway.
[22:32] <eroomde> i.e. just when you think 'ah, bugger this i don't understand' when it's failed to work/compile for the 100th time, and just as you want to go and ksp, that's when you should push and carry on for a bit
[22:32] <mfa298> Willdude123: a lot of this sounds like the advice you've been given for weeks. You need to learn the basics before trying to write complex code - you'll probably also find it easier to stick with one thing when learning code
[22:33] <Willdude123> I needn't learn more than what is relevant atm.
[22:33] <fsphil> it'll help to have a good understanding of C too
[22:33] <mfa298> swapping between python/C Arduino/Pi/BBB is likely to just lead to more confusion
[22:33] <eroomde> Willdude123: you're in no position to judge
[22:33] <eroomde> you have no idea what is and isn't relevent for your success in getting a hab flight computer
[22:33] <eroomde> really
[22:33] <eroomde> you should listen to the advice here instead
[22:34] <Willdude123> I don't really understamd how I'm not.
[22:34] <mfa298> you need to learn *all* the basics of programming first. If you don't understand loops, conditionals, variable scoping (and typing) then you'll struggle with the more advnaced stuff
[22:34] <Willdude123> I just think interrupts are beyond my pay grade atm.
[22:34] <eroomde> they're not
[22:34] <eroomde> they're basic
[22:35] <eroomde> you're in no position to judge because you say totally confused and nonsensical things like 'interrupts are beyond my pay gtrade'
[22:35] <eroomde> you don't know just how much you don't know
[22:36] <eroomde> this isn't being mean, it's just being true
[22:36] <Willdude123> Thanks for the support. I'm going to sleep now and quite frankly I never want to wake up.
[22:36] <eroomde> your easiest path to success is to listen to the people here that know what they're talking about
[22:37] <Willdude123> Ever
[22:37] <eroomde> i'm sure i told you not to confuse the issue with the BBB
[22:37] <eroomde> as have others
[22:37] <eroomde> for example
[22:37] <eroomde> you're just making things harder for yourself. this is the right place for you if you want help. but that does require some patience and humility
[22:38] <eroomde> well anyway, good night if you're heading off now
[22:38] <mfa298> Willdude123: as eroomde just hinted at, choose one language and platform and stick to it!
[22:39] <Willdude123> It will only be a good night if I never wake up, I unfortunately will do.
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[22:56] <craag> Upu: pong
[22:56] <fsphil> I was wondering what that pong was
[22:56] <craag> :P
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[22:59] <Iain_G4SGX> Hi y'all. Neen battling with Ubuntu all night, anyone familiar with compiling gqrx via QT Creator? Got a path setting issue.
[23:00] <craag> Guessing he's gone to bed, I'll be on tomorrow morning.
[23:00] <fsphil> I normally use qmake
[23:00] <fsphil> qmake makes the Makefile, then running make builds it
[23:01] <fsphil> though I'm on Fedora, but I imagine it's a similar deal
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[23:03] <Iain_G4SGX> Its been a nightmare. The binary was unstable so I had to compile gnuradio. Qt cant find the gnuradio headers though they are there, probably a rookie error.
[23:04] <fsphil> yea the current gqrx code on github needs the latest gnuradio
[23:05] <fsphil> it also crashes about 50% of the time when retuning the FCD
[23:05] <Iain_G4SGX> tried the latest binary but was unstable, got told v2.0 is the most stable for the FCD pro+
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[23:05] <fsphil> it only recently got support for the fcd++
[23:05] <fsphil> and for that you definitly need the latest sources
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[23:11] <Iain_G4SGX> Well I think its beaten me. Think I'll have to use windows if im using the FCD til there's an easier install.
[23:12] <Iain_G4SGX> The latest version kept crashing.
[23:12] <fsphil> ah you might have hit the same problem I did
[23:12] <fsphil> I've found it stable when running, it's just retuning that crashed it
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[23:14] <mfa298> there is a module (and I think ubuntu packages) for gnuradio with the fcd pro+, although that requires making gnuradio do something useful
[23:15] <craag> I'm wondering if I could get anybody interested in being an 'external customer' for a 4th year GDP working on 100g hwoyee float trackers?
[23:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> Eyes are beginning to shut here. Good Night.
[23:15] <fsphil> nite!
[23:15] <fsphil> I'd need to do the same shortly
[23:15] <craag> gn steve!
[23:15] <Iain_G4SGX> me too, nit.
[23:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> CYA Phil
[23:15] <fsphil> the alarm doesn't care if I stay up late... :/
[23:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> Bye Iain
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[23:16] <fsphil> external customer?
[23:16] <craag> fsphil: Yeah, someone to supply a specification, and maybe turn up to the end presentation if they feel like it.
[23:18] <craag> Hmm does seem a little more far-fetched now than it did at the pub.
[23:18] <fsphil> hehe, pubs have that effect I'm told
[23:18] <craag> Could be quite a cool project to have a group of us working on long-lifetime aprs/rtty/sat trackers.
[23:19] <craag> With Uni funding :)
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> with our own sat?
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> or not that much funding.
[23:20] <craag> lol not quite!
[23:21] <craag> Although the uni is trying to launch their own one.. that could be a 'future goal'
[23:21] <Guest10440> Anyone know of any license-exempt radio transmitters for the U.S.?
[23:21] <craag> But I was thinking rockblock
[23:23] <craag> fsphil: Do you reckon steve r. might be interested? It'd need no money, just a spec from him, and his name/Random Aerospace all over it.
[23:24] <fsphil> honestly don't know
[23:24] <mfa298> maybe whatever follows sharp/blast might actually get off the gound!
[23:24] <craag> Ok, I'll drop him an email.
[23:24] Action: mfa298 watches flying pigs
[23:25] <fsphil> wasn't that the .net one?
[23:25] <craag> yep
[23:25] <fsphil> that worked well
[23:25] <fsphil> for vague definitions of well
[23:26] <craag> The fun of this would be potentially 10+ pico launches with low-cost trackers (for SHARP definition of low-cost)
[23:26] <mfa298> if you define working well as being a demonstration of what not to do then it worked extremely well :p
[23:26] <fsphil> might be worth chatting with Leo too :)
[23:26] <craag> good point!
[23:27] <craag> Thanks.
[23:28] <craag> I'll send emails in the morning, good night!
[23:28] <fsphil> nite!
[00:00] --- Fri Jul 19 2013