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[02:12] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brdmnUBAS00
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[05:28] <griffonbot> Received email: A. Coghlan "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Horizon 2 - 06/07/13"
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[05:52] <Maxell> arko: 'it's called electrical tape because it conducts electicity" :P
[05:53] <arko> so good :P
[05:54] <Maxell> oh, other people noticed too in the youtube comments :P
[05:56] <Upu> I think what I like most is that comment has been give 49 thumbs up
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[06:11] Action: SP9UOB-Tom_ is gone. Gone since Tue Jul 9 23:10:00 2013
[06:12] <Chetic> so I just found out I need to apply for a permit 30 days in advance how the heeell
[06:12] <Chetic> am I supposed to know what the weather will be like 30 days from now?
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[06:18] <x-f> Chetic, people usually ask for a window - two weekends, for example
[06:19] <Chetic> I shall attempt to do the same
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[07:00] <Willdude223> Hello.
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[07:05] <UpuWork> morning Willdude223
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[07:06] <Willdude223> Wth, I'm willdude223 again.
[07:06] <arko> freenode is getting ddos;d
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[07:07] Nick change: Willdude223 -> Willdude123
[07:08] <Willdude123> Again?
[07:08] <Willdude123> Srsly?
[07:08] <arko> yeah, its been pretty bad the last few days
[07:08] <UpuWork> why ?
[07:08] <arko> glad im also on efnet
[07:08] <arko> people just attacking
[07:08] <arko> nothing better to do i guess
[07:08] <UpuWork> yeah but whats the beef ?
[07:08] <arko> no clue
[07:09] <UpuWork> christel (christel@freenode/staff/exherbo.christel): [Global Notice] As you may have noticed we appear to have trotted over the grumpy troll's bridge -- the network is currently being attacked and as a result we're temporarily without services as we work to get a working copy of the db fired up elsewhere. Apologies for the inconvenience.
[07:10] <Willdude123> That wads yesterdays
[07:10] <Willdude123> *was
[07:10] <Willdude123> *yesterday
[07:10] <arko> must be still attacking
[07:11] <Willdude123> They got it back up and rumnnimg last night thought.
[07:12] <arko> ej
[07:12] <arko> eh*
[07:12] <arko> wow 38 people prereg'd with ukhas
[07:12] <arko> :)
[07:15] <arko> woo! im excited to try out this new vacuum pump
[07:18] <arko> i can replicate the same pressure at 85,000m :D
[07:19] <arko> totally pointless
[07:25] <arko> hahahaha
[07:26] <arko> if you google street view Westminster Bridge Road near big ben
[07:26] <arko> the weather keeps change ever click
[07:26] <arko> sunny, cloudy, sunny, cloudy..
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[08:08] <rharrison_> Oh I still regognise a few names
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[08:08] <UpuWork> oh wow
[08:08] <UpuWork> morning Rob
[08:09] <rharrison_> Hi Upu
[08:09] <UpuWork> your annual visit ? :)
[08:09] <rharrison_> Yep somehting like that
[08:09] <rharrison_> Hoping to get my flight doc approved
[08:09] <UpuWork> when you launching ?
[08:09] <rharrison_> I set it up on habhub
[08:09] <rharrison_> Hoping to launch 10am tomorrow boston spa
[08:09] <UpuWork> ok cool got the id ?
[08:10] <rharrison_> Will try to put it over your head again :-)
[08:10] <rharrison_> One sec
[08:10] <UpuWork> I'm driving down to brightwalton tommorrow to do the launch on Sat
[08:11] <rharrison_> ea52013dc3168259655fb8491e460a7d
[08:11] <rharrison_> Is that what you ment? Launch doc is Icarus (20)
[08:11] <UpuWork> think its approved
[08:11] <UpuWork> first time I've done one :/
[08:12] <rharrison_> Thanks
[08:12] <UpuWork> DanielRichman can you check I did that ok ? :)
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[08:13] <rharrison_> Thanks Upu
[08:13] <rharrison_> I might call this evening whist I test everything works
[08:14] <rharrison_> Trying to run the pred. but issues around getting the wind data ATM will try later
[08:14] <UpuWork> ah its in the ical feed
[08:14] <UpuWork> so must be approved
[08:15] <UpuWork> PM
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[08:22] Nick change: HixWork__ -> HixWork
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[08:29] <fsphil_> ooh a rob launch
[08:35] <UpuWork> been a while :)
[08:35] <G0TDJ_AFK> Are there any going up this coming weekend?
[08:36] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[08:36] <fsphil_> saturday is busy
[08:36] <fsphil_> I think there's one on friday too
[08:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh, I hope so!
[08:36] <fsphil_> as well as robs
[08:36] <LazyLeopard> Yep, there's q party on Saturday. One balloon with 4 trackers, for a start...
[08:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'm not available on Sat and part of Sun. Just didn't want to miss out :-)
[08:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> Damn! I'll miss that LazyLeopard
[08:37] <LazyLeopard> Ah, well...
[08:38] <LazyLeopard> Not often one lands quite as close as CHEAPO did last week.
[08:38] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah... They'll be others
[08:38] <LazyLeopard> Never tracked one below 100 metres before.
[08:38] <G0TDJ_Steve> :D No, that was amazing luck
[08:38] <G0TDJ_Steve> I was amazed when I spotted it out the window
[08:40] <SpeedEvil> :)
[08:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> I took my first step the other day. Ordered some Foil Balloons....
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[08:41] <LazyLeopard> I wonder how low it was when I lost the signal. Last fix was sixty-something metres,
[08:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> I think it came in very shallow LazyLeopard
[08:42] <LazyLeopard> but it must have been decending as it transmitted.
[08:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> Where I recovered it, is a valley.
[08:43] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, it was probably still a good 50 metres up when I lost it.
[08:43] Action: HixWork 's stencil has arrived
[08:43] <HixWork> whoop
[08:44] <LazyLeopard> I think the winds must have been a bit erratic there, as I would have expected its final landing place to be further west.
[08:44] <G0TDJ_Steve> Stencil HixWork ? SMD?
[08:44] <HixWork> yeah
[08:44] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK
[08:44] <G0TDJ_Steve> Does everyone design their own trackers? I seem to recall at least three of you have...
[08:45] <HixWork> Most end up doing so I think. There are lots of options. you can use breakouts or veroboard with a std arduino Uno too
[08:46] Nick change: fsphil_ -> fsphil
[08:46] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, I'll probably use a pre-made one to begin with but I'd like to design my own. I have a few ideas I'd like to implement.
[08:46] <HixWork> I beleive Upu has something up his sleeve. Not sure when it will be revealed
[08:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> I like AVRs, I almost understand the code LOL
[08:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> I look forward to seeing that.
[08:49] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave B "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement : LOHAN Launch Saturday 13th"
[08:50] <Babs__> Morning all - This LOHAN launch - I've been on here for 9 months and never heard of it before. Is it recent or has it just been well hidden all of this time? Eroomde will like the truss action going on with it
[08:51] <Babs__> You can't beat a bit of truss action at 30km
[08:52] <Darkside> its been going on for a while
[08:52] <LazyLeopard> Babs__: You hear a lot about it if you read The Register.
[08:52] <LazyLeopard> Here, you get occasional veiled references...
[08:52] <Babs__> Lazyleopard - that will be my failing then
[08:53] <LazyLeopard> Nah. ;)
[08:53] <Babs__> plus a poor ability to pick up on veiled references
[08:53] <SpeedEvil> The future of HAB
[08:53] <SpeedEvil> http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0052725
[08:54] <Babs__> hold on - is that a radio controlled moth?
[08:54] <LazyLeopard> Some regulars here try to keep the LOHAN crew from being too reckless...
[08:54] <SpeedEvil> Babs__: yes
[08:54] <SpeedEvil> (badly)
[08:54] <Babs__> speedevil - cool
[08:55] <Babs__> lazyleopard - is the brightwalton flight a test flight? i thought GPS gliders were anathema to the CAA in the UK
[08:56] <LazyLeopard> Yes, it's a test for mechanisms. They'll probably go to some other country to do the things they want to do but can't do here.
[08:57] <HixWork> is this the cooker timer test?
[08:57] Action: LazyLeopard isn't sure he wants to know too much. ;)
[08:57] <SpeedEvil> 'but can't do here' - in flight turkey cook?
[08:58] <LazyLeopard> The one Upu was shaking his head about a few days back, I think....
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[08:59] <Lunar_LanderU> morning
[09:00] <LazyLeopard> Babs: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/08/spears_flight/
[09:04] <LazyLeopard> Well, that's another notebook full of Morse practice randomness... :/
[09:05] <Babs__> lazyleopard - thanks , makes sense
[09:05] <Babs__> at least in terms of knowing what they are attempting to do anyway
[09:08] <LazyLeopard> Take with large pinches of salt, most of the time.
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[09:11] <Babs__> i think i remember the paper planes thing now
[09:11] <HixWork> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/27/lohan_failsafe_update/
[09:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> Just watched the video.... interesting project
[09:12] <LazyLeopard> ...for various values of "interesting" ;)
[09:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-)
[09:17] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... The Morse in the title sequence is too fast for me.
[09:18] <SP9UOB-Tom_> yeah, really fast
[09:18] <LazyLeopard> I'd be kinda worried that a purely mechanical override like that would fire the beast even if it had come down early. The fail-safe needs a fail-safe.
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[09:21] <LazyLeopard> About 25wpm?
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[09:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> The Morse is Special Projects Bureau at about 26/28WPM
[09:22] <LazyLeopard> Thanks.
[09:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> I couldn't get it all but I got a snatch that gave it away ;-)
[09:23] Action: LazyLeopard might've been able to pick it apart with a few hundred repeats...
[09:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> It's just practice... I do a few DX QSOs here and there and they all go at that kind of speed.
[09:25] <LazyLeopard> Yeah. Finding anything on-air much under 25wpm is unusual.
[09:25] <LazyLeopard> ...and under 15 it's usually just beacons.
[09:25] <LazyLeopard> Did catch GB2CW this morning, though.
[09:25] <G0TDJ_Steve> I haven't had a 'proper' conversation on the key for ages. Just Tnx UR 599 BK..
[09:26] <G0TDJ_Steve> I used to do the GB2CW broadcasts on a Thurs eve.
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[09:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> It was difficult to come up with stuff to send every week.
[09:27] <LazyLeopard> The Thursday morning ones are mixed mode 3.605 SSB and 3.5043 CW, which makes them easier to handle.
[09:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah
[09:27] <LazyLeopard> Evening ones on 80 metres seem to get clobbered by noise this time of year.
[09:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> I@m not a great fan of the lower bands
[09:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> My ones awere on 2m
[09:28] <LazyLeopard> Even this morning 80 metres was borderline.
[09:28] <LazyLeopard> Where'd you transmit from? Crayford?
[09:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, stopped last year.
[09:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> I used to have regularlisteners all over the place.
[09:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> We've got a noisy parrot now so broadcasting could be difficult LOL
[09:29] <LazyLeopard> Right. Tried listening for them once or twice, but Thursday evenings are busy often as not. However, if CHEAPO's signal was any guide, you'd need a 50 metre tower for me to hear you here.
[09:30] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hmmm
[09:30] <G0TDJ_Steve> Problem is, I'm on the brow of a hill in a valley
[09:30] <G0TDJ_Steve> North is a real problem. South not much better
[09:30] <G0TDJ_Steve> E & W OK
[09:33] <G0TDJ_Steve> So, where can I find detials of the launch for tomorrow?
[09:34] <UpuWork> he's not posted them he's out of practice :)
[09:34] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-) I'll settle for knowing if it's morning or afternoon
[09:36] <fsphil> hah
[09:36] <daveake> launch tomorrow?
[09:36] <fsphil> maybe he's put it on the wiki page
[09:36] <daveake> I might be too busy to track :p
[09:38] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'm around tomorrow but not Saturday. I need my tracking fix :D
[09:38] <fsphil> haha
[09:39] <fsphil> addicted to rtty
[09:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL :D I do like RTTY actually.
[09:39] <daveake> Well one of the trackers is called REHAB ....
[09:40] <fsphil> this could become a BADHABIT
[09:42] <LazyLeopard> I''ve got higher ground most ways around. Bit of a sort-of gap between NE and W. See http://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=PPO1TS8K (and click the visibility cloak option)
[09:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> Doing...
[09:42] <fsphil> that's a cool site
[09:43] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, I'm gonna do it. LazyLeopard Cheers. You're only in Orpington...
[09:44] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, in a bit of a hollow, though not quite as bad as being right down in town.
[09:45] <G0TDJ_Steve> Do you have to sign up to use it?
[09:45] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, I expect my view will be similar
[09:46] <LazyLeopard> I've not signed up to heywhatsthat as far as I know...
[09:48] <LazyLeopard> Did use it to figure out why the Bromley club couldn't hear much on VHF though. Even with a 50 foot mast they're only seeing this much: http://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=O1BES7VG
[09:49] <G0TDJ_Steve> Blimey....
[09:49] <G0TDJ_Steve> LazyLeopard: Check mine out: http://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=OMS4CTE1
[09:50] <fsphil> nice horizon to the south
[09:50] <G0TDJ_Steve> At least I have that
[09:50] <LazyLeopard> Bromley club's the classic "If you want to operate VHF, here's a good place not to operate from" site ;)
[09:50] <G0TDJ_Steve> :D
[09:53] Action: LazyLeopard used to work in an office in that little bump of visibility north of Biggin Hill.
[09:55] <G0TDJ_Steve> Must have been nice. If you're into aviation
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[09:56] <craag_> LazyLeopard: Ouch, that isn't a great site at all!
[09:56] <LazyLeopard> Oh yes. At air-show time the planes used to use the office as a turning spot.
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[09:57] <craag_> This was our nfd site: http://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=EF7Q0AQ0
[09:57] <LazyLeopard> Nice. ;)
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[09:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good site... LazyLeopard I've sent that link to our clubs newsletter editor, thanks.
[09:59] <LazyLeopard> Camb Hams use this one: http://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=GRV47NFJ
[10:00] <LazyLeopard> Which Club? CVRS?
[10:00] <craag_> THat's a nice one, quite flat around there!
[10:01] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, and they're on top of a bump, and they have a van with a 12 metre mast...
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[10:02] <craag_> Hehe, rocking up to the site 30mins before the contest starts.. that must be nice!
[10:02] <craag_> We were putting masts up Friday night.
[10:04] <LazyLeopard> Usually for NFD and the like they're also setting up other antennas and a campsite, but they do seem to have fun with the van. ;)
[10:04] <UpuWork> ICARUS is on 434.075 @ 0900 UTC from Boston Spa near Wetherby tommorrow
[10:05] <G0TDJ_Steve> There we go, Our NFD site - Thanks UpuWork
[10:06] <daveake> ooo Icarus
[10:06] <mattbrejza> UpuWork: icarus as in rjh?
[10:06] <daveake> long time no see
[10:06] <UpuWork> yep been a while :)
[10:06] <LazyLeopard> :)
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[10:06] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cripes, long way. I'll give it a go though.
[10:06] <UpuWork> Near York
[10:07] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, just had a look on the map
[10:07] <LazyLeopard> Should be trackable once it gets up a bit.
[10:07] <daveake> UpuWork tracking from the car tomorrow then? :)
[10:07] <G0TDJ_Steve> Having just looked at my ositions profile, I may have difficulty with that one.
[10:07] <UpuWork> could do :)
[10:08] <LazyLeopard> It's amasing how much difference a little elevation makes though.
[10:09] <mattbrejza> i see that leo is having another go later tonight
[10:09] <UpuWork> yeah he is, it has a solar panel on it
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[10:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> Tonight??
[10:10] <daveake> I sense an issuette
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[10:10] <mfa298> I was thinking we must be due another Leo Balloon, it's been a few days without one
[10:10] <nosebleedkt> hi all
[10:11] <UpuWork> hey nosebleedkt
[10:11] <UpuWork> PM
[10:11] <craag_> Is he using battery+solar panel?
[10:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> Have you guys got access to a launch list I don't know about :-)
[10:11] <craag_> ie diode-or kind of thing?
[10:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Philip, Didn't know you were about
[10:11] <LazyLeopard> Lot depends on how long it lasts...
[10:12] <craag_> Hi G0TDJ_Steve
[10:12] <LazyLeopard> I expect some folks can see the innards of HabHub's flights database...
[10:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK LazyLeopard May I have the launch info?
[10:12] <mattbrejza> its just the calendar
[10:12] <LazyLeopard> Ah. OK.
[10:13] <mattbrejza> also habitat.habhub.org/ept will show flight docs
[10:13] <mattbrejza> in launch date order descending
[10:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh yes, I see it
[10:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> Thanks
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[10:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> Time for a cuppa and screen break methinks :-)
[10:24] <nosebleedkt> take a look at my new photoshoed images
[10:24] <nosebleedkt> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=666574760023238&set=a.531010533579662.138394.259791880701530&type=3&theater
[10:24] <nosebleedkt> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=666430196704361&set=a.531010533579662.138394.259791880701530&type=3&theater
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[10:38] <G0TDJ_Steve> I got booted and didn't even realise...
[10:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> Right, quick question. Are eBay: 181110776394 any good for trackers?
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[10:46] <fsphil> it's about 5mw, quite low power
[10:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> No not oggd for range then
[10:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> good even...
[10:48] <fsphil> well you'd still get the same range, but would be a bit more difficult to decode
[10:48] <fsphil> minimum frequency step seems to be 2.5khz which is quite wide
[10:48] <fsphil> though there's probably ways around that
[10:49] <G0TDJ_Steve> Just thinking of economy
[10:49] <PaulCDR> Upu, are you around?
[10:50] <UpuWork> hey PaulCDR
[10:50] <UpuWork> ye shere
[10:50] <mattbrejza> but the rfm22b is cheaper G0TDJ_Steve ?
[10:50] <PaulCDR> do you mind if i pm
[10:50] <UpuWork> go for it
[10:50] <G0TDJ_Steve> Is it? Hadn't looked it up
[10:51] <mattbrejza> the cc1101 modules from dx.com are also cheaper
[10:51] <G0TDJ_Steve> mattbrejza: The one I posted was a tenner, rfm22b's listed from £17
[10:52] <craag_> G0TDJ_Steve: Use hab supplies.
[10:52] <mattbrejza> even farnell has the rfm22b for <£10
[10:52] <G0TDJ_Steve> They're 20 quid too Philip :-)
[10:52] <UpuWork> uh ?
[10:52] <craag_> really?
[10:52] <UpuWork> RFM22B's aren't £20 from me
[10:53] <craag_> I didn't think so.
[10:53] <UpuWork> £7.14 less 10% + postage
[10:53] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh, hang on. Maybe I've got the wrong one's, sorry Tony
[10:53] <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=65
[10:53] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, I was in the wrong place :-) My bad
[10:54] <mattbrejza> does 'Come speak to me on IRC' mean dont buy 144.8 in the UK?
[10:54] <UpuWork> in fact if all you are order is those speak to me
[10:54] <UpuWork> I'll do the postage cheaper
[10:54] <UpuWork> no mattbrejza
[10:54] <UpuWork> just for the discount code
[10:54] <mattbrejza> oh right
[10:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cool, Thanks Tony
[10:55] <UpuWork> 144.800 is correct for the UK anyway :)
[10:55] <mattbrejza> well potentially
[10:55] <UpuWork> with a license
[10:55] <UpuWork> but Radiometrix don't check licenses
[10:56] <mattbrejza> the lmt2 will set you back a bit
[10:56] <G0TDJ_Steve> Drat, I've got to get some work done. Be back later for Leo's launch etc.
[10:56] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
[10:56] <mattbrejza> im fairly sure my radio will pick up leos flight without any reconfig :P
[10:57] <mattbrejza> (or rather logging into remote desktop to fiddle with the radio/fldigi)
[10:58] <mfa298> I've got a feeling dl-fldigi didn't save where on the waterfall you're listening so you might have to re-select that again.
[10:59] <mfa298> although at least once you've found it you can leave it going all night (unless dl-fldigi stops uploading like I had)
[10:59] <mattbrejza> yea but fldigi was never closed (unless windows has updated and restarted)
[11:01] <mfa298> I've got a feeling patch tuesday was this week so you might have had updates.
[11:01] <mattbrejza> yea it restarted :(
[11:01] <UpuWork> mattbrejza again I can't sell them any cheaper than RMX have them on their website
[11:01] <UpuWork> but subtle hint : COME SPEAK TO ME
[11:01] <mattbrejza> lol, completely subtle
[11:01] <UpuWork> or just guess what the code is lol
[11:02] <mattbrejza> i wasnt after them anyway
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[11:02] <UpuWork> right food
[11:02] <UpuWork> bbl
[11:02] <fsphil> oh farnell are back online
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[11:17] <Ugi> Hi guys
[11:17] <mfa298> afternoon Ugi
[11:17] <Ugi> Seeing "Monty" on the map - it's pretty close to home for me.
[11:18] <Ugi> Anyone know who's that is?
[11:19] <mfa298> I think that might be the one that sent a launch announcement a few days ago launching in just over a weeks time
[11:19] <daveake> yup
[11:19] <Ugi> Great - I'll have a look on the Google group.
[11:19] <Ugi> didn't spot it myself
[11:20] <mfa298> I think they're launching from Cambridge with help from Chris Stubbs
[11:21] <Ugi> Ah got it - launching from Cambridge 21st
[11:21] <Ugi> I need a HABamp
[11:22] <Ugi> then hopefully I can track from slightly further afield.
[11:24] <mfa298> A good antenna in a good location helps a lot as well.
[11:28] <HixWork> Hi Ugi
[11:30] <Ugi> HI HixWork!
[11:31] <Ugi> How's it going?
[11:31] <HixWork> stencil has arrived :D
[11:31] <Ugi> Yay!
[11:31] <Ugi> Look good?
[11:31] <HixWork> seems to be
[11:33] <Ugi> Good stuff - when do you get to try it?
[11:33] <Ugi> do you have a reflow oven or need to borrow one?
[11:33] <Ugi> I mean use of one
[11:33] <HixWork> I've got an Atten Hot air station
[11:33] <HixWork> gonna try that first
[11:34] <Ugi> Don't see why that wouldn't work
[11:34] <Ugi> do you have many very heat-sensititve components to add?
[11:35] <HixWork> for the IMU there are a few, but I'll probably just ramp it up then quickly pass over the areas at melt temp
[11:35] <PE2G> Hi all, am tracking the De Bilt (NL) ozone sonde at:
[11:35] <PE2G> http://nl.aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FPE2G-11&timerange=10800&tail=10800
[11:36] <PE2G> http://pe2gradiosonde.funpic.org/js/
[11:36] <PE2G> http://sondetracker.radiosonda.sk/v2/index.html
[11:36] <HixWork> I've seen this, reckon it could be easily hacked
[11:36] <HixWork> http://goo.gl/EPBVi
[11:37] <Ugi> Yeah - I wondered about that.
[11:37] <Ugi> There is quite a good instructable that shows somebody doing it with an AVR and a thermocouple
[11:37] <Ugi> Their version is fancier than you would need
[11:38] <Ugi> but the profile was pretty impressive
[11:39] <Ugi> http://www.instructables.com/id/Hack-a-Toaster-Oven-for-Reflow-Soldering/
[11:39] <Ugi> this one
[11:40] <Ugi> personally I would output by serial and do the monitoring on a PC but I'm cheap!
[11:40] <HixWork> http://i.imgur.com/1Ycn6dP.jpg the stencil itself. I didn't know it was going to come in a frame though
[11:41] <HixWork> yes, I've seen that instructable
[11:42] <Ugi> Looks very professional - you're set for making thousands with that!
[11:43] <Ugi> I mean thousands of copies
[11:43] <HixWork> Apart from it needs to be removed from the frame and sliced. its >A3 <A2 sized and the IMU board is ~35mm^2
[11:43] <Ugi> but thousands of pounds too if you can sell them!
[11:44] <Ugi> Dremmel?
[11:44] <SpeedEvil> Scissors!
[11:44] <Ugi> Stainless is a bi*ch to cut with tool -scissors might be a good option!
[11:44] <Laurenceb> whats this imu for?
[11:45] <HixWork> camera stab Laurenceb
[11:45] <Laurenceb> ah
[11:45] <Laurenceb> seen vrgimbal?
[11:46] <HixWork> not yet - that i know of
[11:46] <Laurenceb> http://www.virtualrobotix.com/page/vr-gimbal
[11:46] <HixWork> yup there
[11:46] <HixWork> :)
[11:48] <HixWork> is the frame actually carbon or that vile carbon-look plastic s*ite
[11:48] <Laurenceb> who cares
[11:48] <HixWork> me :)
[11:48] <Laurenceb> youd have to make your own frame
[11:48] <Laurenceb> but the controller could be useful
[11:49] <SpeedEvil> expanded polystyrene can be more rigid than carbon.
[11:49] <HixWork> I just hate the whole carbon-llok thing. Especially in car interiors
[11:51] <Laurenceb> if you flew something like a canon G1-X, youd need something quite beefy, and also well balanced
[11:52] <HixWork> initially aiming for a G9 but ultimately a D3 or possibly D4
[11:52] <HixWork> static balance is a given
[11:53] <mattbrejza> you would want something to counteract the torque when you rotate? otherwise hte box is just gonna spin in the opposite direction?
[11:54] <Laurenceb> yeah thats a big issue
[11:54] <Laurenceb> you'll need some lots CF tube rods on the box, to increase its moment of inertial
[11:54] <Laurenceb> *-l
[11:55] <Laurenceb> sounds like the G9 is 12bit raw, but G1-x is 14
[11:55] <Laurenceb> might help you to get the max out of the images
[11:55] <Laurenceb> but postprocessing could be challenging
[11:56] <HixWork> I don't own a G1-X though :(
[11:56] <mattbrejza> i suppose you could add an active gyro system to it
[11:56] <mattbrejza> to counteract
[11:56] <Laurenceb> ah
[11:56] <Laurenceb> thought you were talking about cameras to buy :P
[11:56] <Laurenceb> mattbrejza: wtf
[11:56] <UpuWork> haha just found this : http://spacenear.us/tracker/lunar.html :)
[11:56] <HixWork> nope. Own a G9 and 2 D2's
[11:56] <Laurenceb> gyros or CF rod... whats simplest?
[11:56] <mattbrejza> might have explained badly
[11:56] <UpuWork> or should I say XD
[11:57] <HixWork> may be able to blag a D3/4
[11:57] <Laurenceb> oh yeah mean for the stabilisation?
[11:57] <Laurenceb> got you
[11:57] <Laurenceb> UpuWork: lolling
[11:58] <mattbrejza> yep
[11:58] <Laurenceb> yeah id have gone with gyro stabilization too
[11:58] <Laurenceb> if it was from scraATCH
[11:58] <Laurenceb> but the RC guys have solved a lot of the problems already
[11:58] <Laurenceb> so might as well borrow from then if you get my drift
[11:59] <mattbrejza> you could have a mass equal to the camera thats rotated in reverse to the camera to stop it spinning
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[12:04] <HixWork> that could end up being fooking heavy
[12:05] <HixWork> I've looked a lot at RC stuff Laurenceb also at stuff like cineflex
[12:05] <Laurenceb> i think its easy to do
[12:05] <Laurenceb> just an "inverted piramid" of three or four ~2m long CF rods
[12:06] <Laurenceb> sticking out of the top of the payload box
[12:06] <Laurenceb> then camera + gimbal on the bottom
[12:06] <Laurenceb> gives a payload box with over an order of magnitude more moment of inertia than the camera
[12:07] <Laurenceb> so it should be possible to stabilize
[12:07] <HixWork> hah just seen that email on the list
[12:09] <Laurenceb> yaw control may be an issue
[12:10] <Laurenceb> if you stretched thin polythene sheet between the CF rods it would bleed off yaw rate as drag
[12:10] <Laurenceb> but make thing a bit hard to stabilise - due to the air flowing down during ascent
[12:11] <Laurenceb> i guess that problem can be solved by rigging
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[12:14] <Laurenceb> hmm
[12:15] <Laurenceb> this almost seems too easy
[12:21] <mattbrejza> i found carbonfibre-Aluminium composite arrows to be very stiff and strong, dunno how they compare to a standard CF rod
[12:21] <mattbrejza> (also in arrow form they arnt 2m long)
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[12:28] <HixWork> to be fair I reckon gf rods / tubes are going to be up to the task, far cheaper and more readily available
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[12:57] <Laurenceb> you need length
[12:58] <Laurenceb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_of_inertia
[12:59] <mattbrejza> yea i realise, was just wondering on the comparision between the materials. Would guess 2m cf is easier to get hold of than something fancier
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[13:07] <eroomde> increasing the moment of inertia of the frame doesn't 'solve' any problems
[13:08] <eroomde> re the early conversation about countertorque
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> Doesn't it greatly slow the required control loop?
[13:08] <eroomde> 'greatly'
[13:09] <eroomde> don;t know what adjectives mean in the context of engineering
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> Reduce the required control bandwidth significantly.
[13:09] <Laurenceb> it makes the problem massively easier
[13:09] <Laurenceb> its not really speed
[13:09] <Laurenceb> its authority
[13:09] <eroomde> i doesn't make it easier though at all
[13:09] <eroomde> it's the same problem
[13:09] <eroomde> just with different moments of inertia
[13:10] <Laurenceb> stick a gimbal on a lightweight EPs box
[13:10] <eroomde> those are just variables in the same equations
[13:10] <Laurenceb> you have no control authority
[13:10] <Laurenceb> increase moment of inertia of the box, suddenly you start getting control authority
[13:10] <Laurenceb> you only need to bleed of inertia in the yaw axis
[13:10] <Laurenceb> hence the polythene sheet i discussed
[13:12] <eroomde> that just damps it
[13:12] <eroomde> damping isn't control
[13:12] <eroomde> it's just damping
[13:12] <Laurenceb> nope
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> It also adds a absolute damping term.
[13:12] <Laurenceb> balloon -> "box" -> gimbal -> camera
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> Referred to the atmosphere.
[13:12] <Laurenceb> you are aiming to use the gimbal to aim the camera
[13:12] <Laurenceb> with non moment of inertia in the box, you have no control authority
[13:13] <Laurenceb> there is nothing to "thrust against"
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> You can of course use momentum wheels.
[13:13] <Laurenceb> im trying to make it simple
[13:13] <Laurenceb> so theres a realistic chance of it getting built
[13:14] <Laurenceb> s/non/no
[13:14] <eroomde> you saying momentum wheels don't have a chance of getting built?
[13:14] <Laurenceb> maybe by you eroomde XD
[13:14] <Laurenceb> mortals need off the shelf RC kit
[13:14] <Laurenceb> i.e. gimbals
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> Well, in principle, you just screw three brushless outrunners to a box, optionally slip on some flywheels, add some reflashed servo controllers, and you're good.
[13:15] <Laurenceb> yeah
[13:16] <SpeedEvil> reflashes ESCs
[13:16] <Laurenceb> a bit hard to fit
[13:16] <Laurenceb> especially if you want a view from the camera
[13:16] <Laurenceb> i would have done it with a single large gyro
[13:16] <Laurenceb> and simple gyroscopic stabilization
[13:17] <Laurenceb> but RC gimbals are off the shelf
[13:17] <Laurenceb> so its almost trivial to build a stabilized platfrom now
[13:17] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[13:30] <iain_G4SGX> HixWork: Received my X201 from your geezer, very pleased with it. Would be interested in to know how you got an internal SIM card network adaptor working when you have a minute.
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[13:35] <nosebleedkt> hi all again :D
[13:37] <Babs__> ooo, I missed a conversation that I could actually contribute to
[13:37] <HixWork> Hi iain_G4SGX glad the recommendation was good
[13:38] <Babs__> I would say that IMHO attaching a 2m long carbon fibre rod to a gimbal - good luck
[13:38] <HixWork> iain_G4SGX, it was a world of pain to be honest. Jon sells them for £50 but i bought one for £15
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[13:38] <HixWork> he Babs__
[13:38] <HixWork> *hi
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[13:38] <Babs__> a few truss like cross braces gets it stiff enough though
[13:38] <Babs__> ooer missus
[13:38] <Laurenceb> <Babs__>: other way around
[13:39] <Laurenceb> Cf rod to the payload box
[13:39] <Babs__> also, whatever you do, you want to make the bit below the gimbal heavier than the bit above the gimbal
[13:39] <Babs__> in one of my tests, i made them equal (not necessarily in terms of absolute mass, more mass * centre of the gimbal equal)
[13:40] <Babs__> the thing ricked back and forth for 5 minutes
[13:40] <Babs__> *rocked
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[13:40] <Babs__> + points for the smoothness of my gimbal, minus points for it being of any practical use
[13:41] <Babs__> As long as the gimbal is low friction, and the mass*distance to centre of gimbal is about double for the bottom bit than the top that seemed to work well
[13:41] <Laurenceb> by gimbal i mean the Rc stuff
[13:41] <Laurenceb> using rewound brushless motors
[13:43] <mattbrejza> do rewound motors change how they behave to inputs, or just change their characteristics (eg move slower but more torque)?
[13:43] <eroomde> the latter
[13:43] <mattbrejza> ah ok
[13:43] <mattbrejza> could use stepper motors?
[13:44] <HixWork> what sort of Kv are you talking about Laurenceb
[13:44] <eroomde> brushless motors on all the axes was what i proposed in my masters for this
[13:44] <eroomde> you just can't get accuracy with servos
[13:44] <eroomde> stepers!!?!?!?
[13:44] <eroomde> even worse!
[13:44] <mattbrejza> :P
[13:44] <mattbrejza> ok
[13:44] <eroomde> the point is to get very fine smooth linear control
[13:44] <eroomde> steppers are none of those
[13:44] <mattbrejza> cant you hold them inbetween steps?
[13:44] <Laurenceb> <HixWork>: the sort you buy off the shelf with the gimblas
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[13:44] <Laurenceb> thats the point - use off the shelf
[13:44] <eroomde> well maybe, but that just makes everything complicated
[13:45] <eroomde> you want to command a torque really
[13:45] <mattbrejza> so what did you use for your masters project?
[13:45] <eroomde> brushless
[13:45] <mattbrejza> oh right
[13:46] <eroomde> basically just magnetic fields to put a torque on an axis which has really, really low friction
[13:46] <eroomde> no gearboxes (friction, backlash) or anything like that
[13:47] <HixWork> iain_G4SGX, http://goo.gl/aQqfk have a look here
[13:47] <Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ALNKv2VYwE
[13:47] <eroomde> i'm also having my reaction wheel biased with a low rpm
[13:47] <eroomde> eg 100 rpm
[13:47] <eroomde> so you don't get stiction
[13:48] <Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydHQiaHKmgI
[13:48] <Laurenceb> thats a vrgimbal
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[13:50] <Laurenceb> wait no
[13:50] <Laurenceb> http://flyduino.net/Alex-Mos-Brushless-Gimbal-BLG_1
[13:50] <Laurenceb> its that
[13:50] <Laurenceb> lol failmega
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[13:50] <mattbrejza> urgh ____duino
[13:50] <Laurenceb> indeed
[13:51] <Laurenceb> http://www.virtualrobotix.com/profiles/blogs/vr-gimbal-board-control-and-imu-we-are-ready-for-developer
[13:51] <Laurenceb> ^thats what you want
[13:51] <mattbrejza> 'Access to serial port, so a Bluetooth can also be hooked for easy tuning'
[13:51] <mattbrejza> er what
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[13:54] <iain_G4SGX> HixWork: Thanks.
[13:55] <Laurenceb> mattbrejza: yeah they used tuning and easy in the same sentence
[13:56] <mattbrejza> cant you just use adaptive control? (my limited understanding of state space based control is that it doesnt need tuning, but im not really wanting to start a big control discussion)
[13:57] <mattbrejza> one of the first things we were told in classical control is that noone really uses it anymore
[13:57] <Laurenceb> now you are at it, you use just and adaptive in the same sentence
[13:57] <Laurenceb> *+d
[13:57] <Laurenceb> i hate control
[13:57] <mattbrejza> hence off the shelf?
[13:58] <Laurenceb> or "building oscillators"
[13:58] <Laurenceb> which is what it always turns into for me
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[13:58] <Laurenceb> off the shelf doesnt solve tuning issues
[13:58] <mattbrejza> true
[13:58] <eroomde> state-space control does need tuning
[13:58] <eroomde> adaptive is a different thing
[13:59] <eroomde> state space is really just a way of representing systems
[13:59] <mattbrejza> oh i think we were told optimum doesnt need tuning, but i guess it needs its cost function thingy
[14:00] <Laurenceb> yeah
[14:00] <Laurenceb> im using optimum control on a couple of projects atm
[14:00] <Laurenceb> you need a realistic model for it to stand a chance of working
[14:01] <Laurenceb> atm i have a project using an extended kalman filter to fit a model and then using the model for optimal control
[14:01] <mattbrejza> i suppose at least the PID + tune method can be brute forced
[14:01] <Laurenceb> yes, but they are often very poor
[14:01] <Laurenceb> im imagine for a gimbal PID would work okish
[14:04] <HixWork> pid?
[14:04] <eroomde> optimum does need tuning too
[14:04] <eroomde> it relies on a good model
[14:04] <eroomde> it's adaptive that doesn't need tuning
[14:05] <HixWork> something inertial device?
[14:05] <HixWork> programmable?
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[14:05] <eroomde> Laurenceb has already got there sorry
[14:05] <eroomde> i keep leaving my computer. not reallt following along in realtime
[14:05] <HixWork> ahh proportional-integral-derivative
[14:05] <eroomde> i think i gave a brain dump of the state of modern control thoery on irc a month or two ago
[14:05] <mattbrejza> you did
[14:06] <eroomde> and yes PID should work fine for a gimbal
[14:06] <eroomde> it's a nice simple model
[14:06] <eroomde> as we used to say, there'd PID control and PhD control
[14:06] <eroomde> and at least PID usually works
[14:07] <Laurenceb> heh
[14:07] <Laurenceb> most of the time, in my case it didnt
[14:07] <Laurenceb> i wanted to control a linear actuator to apply pressure to someones arm
[14:07] <Laurenceb> a human arm is mechanically rather complex
[14:07] <eroomde> i bet your feedback/sesning was wierd
[14:08] <eroomde> by which i mean not linear
[14:08] <Laurenceb> viscoelastic, thixotropic and nonlinear
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> On that topic, I've just been listening to a podcast on medieval torture devices.
[14:08] <Laurenceb> PID managed press/release in ~2 seconds
[14:08] <Laurenceb> optimal control with EKF fitter managed 120millisecond press/release
[14:09] <Laurenceb> (with no overshoot and <5% pressure error as constraints)
[14:09] <Laurenceb> yeah feedback was a strain guage in the end of the actuator
[14:10] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/ngh7ejA.jpg
[14:11] <eroomde> i reckon ekf + pid WOULD PROBABLY HAVE GOT YOU THERE
[14:11] <eroomde> whoops
[14:11] <Laurenceb> how would an EKF have helped the PID?
[14:11] <eroomde> there should be that big a difference between a well tuned PID and an optimal controller (they sort of converge)
[14:11] <eroomde> for estimating state
[14:11] <eroomde> and therefore error
[14:11] <Laurenceb> oh i see
[14:12] <Laurenceb> hmm interesting idea
[14:12] <eroomde> should not be*
[14:12] <eroomde> tbh i think optimal control is a bit overblown
[14:13] <eroomde> it's sort of because the name promises a lot
[14:13] <Laurenceb> yeah a simple fast response PID oscillated due to the stress/strain profile of biomaterials
[14:13] <eroomde> when really it just means you design acontroller to minimise some cost function
[14:14] <Laurenceb> "linear actuator" is actually a stepper motor, but that graphic is from a poster for n00bs, so...
[14:14] <eroomde> non-linear actuator
[14:14] <Laurenceb> hehe
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[14:18] <Laurenceb> of course in my case there is a simpler way
[14:19] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/2kjI5DI.jpg
[14:19] <Laurenceb> just use air
[14:19] <Laurenceb> and a membrane
[14:26] <Laurenceb> atm my problem is the air hose detaches from the sensor
[14:26] <Laurenceb> i think its PVC plasticiser causing the silicone rubber adhesive to fail :S
[14:26] <Laurenceb> funtimes
[14:27] <eroomde> it's always the little problems
[14:28] <Laurenceb> im going for the overkill solution: some brass sleeving to fit over the PVC hose, then i can silicone to the brass
[14:29] <Laurenceb> unfortunately i need alkoxy silicone for that, or the acetic acid from curing will corrode the brass and the bond will still fail...
[14:29] <eroomde> blah
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> you can neutralise acetoxy cure silicone.
[14:30] <eroomde> maybe i should tell you for many hours about the pitfalls of multiphase flow through swirl injectors
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> But, probably not for actual medical apps.
[14:30] <eroomde> it's been a fight recently
[14:30] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: interesting
[14:30] <Laurenceb> this doesnt have to meet medical standards
[14:30] <Laurenceb> i can get the silicone out of patent contact
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Add damp oxide to it, and it sets in 2-3 minutes.
[14:31] <Laurenceb> damp oxide?
[14:31] <Laurenceb> like what?
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> sodium bicarbonate makes it foam
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> tin oxide worked
[14:31] <Laurenceb> hmm
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> I suspect NaO would be too fast.
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> It's handy for at-home potting stuff cheaply, and mouldmaking
[14:32] Action: SpeedEvil has a LOT of tin oxide.
[14:32] <Laurenceb> this is with standard air curing silicone?
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[14:32] <Laurenceb> wow didnt know that, thanks
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> Normally it releases acetic acid vapour and takes in water to set.
[14:32] <Laurenceb> yeah
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> If you kill the acetic acid vapour - by neutralising it - and provide the water - bang.
[14:33] <Laurenceb> that would be handy
[14:33] <Laurenceb> actually, sodium bicarbonate would be handy
[14:34] <Laurenceb> if i want it to seal rough surfaces
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> I got about a 50% density foam.
[14:34] <Laurenceb> perfect
[14:34] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[14:34] <Laurenceb> i still have the plasticizer issue though
[14:34] Action: SpeedEvil needs to finish his birdcage
[14:35] <Laurenceb> guess brass sleeve isnt horribly difficult
[14:35] <Laurenceb> getting flexi pcbs for prototypes is my major headache atm
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> Or an insert inside the tubing, and clamp over the outside.
[14:35] <Laurenceb> yeah
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> can you reuse fishtank stuff? :)
[14:36] <Laurenceb> adhering to PVC is easy - just superglue
[14:36] <Laurenceb> im using fishtank kit at the other end
[14:36] <Laurenceb> to apply the pressure
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> 'Ok - now, place this on the patient - ignore the little clump of artificial seawead'
[14:36] <Laurenceb> well - modified with an stm32 controller
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> err - fruitcage^
[14:37] <Laurenceb> he
[14:37] <SpeedEvil> Bastards are stealing my fruit.
[14:37] <SpeedEvil> It's either a fruitcage, or a really, really large birdcage.
[14:38] <Laurenceb> can't you use netting?
[14:38] <SpeedEvil> It's 3*4.8*4.8m or so.
[14:38] <SpeedEvil> netting is involved.
[14:39] <SpeedEvil> I have also got a stanley stapler - that wasn't outputting staples reliably.
[14:39] Nick change: Steffann -> Steffanx
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> I cleaned it - and put it together again - after being unable to work out where one spring goes, and it now works better than ever.
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[14:45] <Steffanx> Just curious who are 'operators' in this channel?
[14:46] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6235wlQ38w
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[14:51] <Brace> HixWork: you might like this - http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/climbing/mountaineering/Disposable-Man-History-of-the-Sherpa-on-Everest.html?page=all
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[15:06] <Ugi> Laurenceb: did you know itead studio do flex PCB prototyping now? Not cheap but I've not seen it elsewhere.
[15:06] <Laurenceb> oh
[15:06] <Laurenceb> no i didnt, ill check it out
[15:07] <Laurenceb> atm i'm paying ~700 euros a pop
[15:07] <Ugi> http://imall.iteadstudio.com/open-pcb/pcb-prototyping/2layer-flexible-printed-circuits-fpc-5cm-x-5cm-max.html
[15:08] <Ugi> this type of business - a few 10s of $ for a small one
[15:08] <Ugi> $80 for 100 x 100mm
[15:08] <Ugi> plus post I guess
[15:09] <Laurenceb> hmm
[15:09] <Laurenceb> they have slightly smaller vias than seeed
[15:10] <Laurenceb> (on solid)
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[15:10] <Laurenceb> wow this is very nice
[15:11] <Ugi> I've never used a flex PCB I'm afraid - I just mentioned it because I had seen the service
[15:12] <Laurenceb> thanks
[15:14] <Laurenceb> would save me a little...
[15:14] <Ugi> no problem - looked interesting and their normal PCBs are fine but I just can't comment on the quality of their flex PCBs 'cos I've never used theirs or anyones
[15:14] <Laurenceb> i was wording from Germany
[15:14] <Laurenceb> *ordering
[15:15] <Laurenceb> massive tooling charges
[15:15] <Ugi> Well, if you can make it $80 + fedex rather than 700 euros should be a bonus
[15:16] <Laurenceb> not that its my money, but it all goes down well
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[15:17] <Ugi> never hurts to be able to say you have saved someone some costs
[15:17] <Ugi> if the quality is ok, of course
[15:17] <Laurenceb> I'm sure its good enough for prototyping
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[15:18] <Laurenceb> prototyping at 700euros/iteration is not fun
[15:18] <Ugi> Itead are certainly stunning value on small normal PCBs
[15:18] <chrisstubbs> er, is this why the predictor was down? http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-07/09/us-agency-overreacts-virus
[15:18] <Laurenceb> well - seeed are good too
[15:18] <Ugi> I got 10 of my tracker boards for #10
[15:19] <Laurenceb> Min trace width and Space 1/3 OZ 2.0mil/2.0mil
[15:19] <Laurenceb> holy shit
[15:20] <mattbrejza> itead?
[15:20] <Ugi> They were only 50 x 50mm but it means they are almost cheaper than buying perfboard!
[15:20] <Laurenceb> i could probably fit all the electronic in the sensor
[15:20] <Laurenceb> the itead flex specsa
[15:20] <mattbrejza> ah
[15:20] <Laurenceb> the other nice thing about flexi is they precision laser cut it out of kapton
[15:21] <Laurenceb> so if you are clever you can use it as a structural element as well
[15:21] <Laurenceb> when you are making flexible sensors like mine
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[15:22] <mattbrejza> it looks like itead stole the subboards graphic from seeed
[15:23] <Ugi> didn't see that they were 2 mil trace width - that's crazy!
[15:24] <Laurenceb> hmm thats a bit confusing
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[15:25] <Laurenceb> i see specs for FR4 reinforcement
[15:25] <Laurenceb> but no instructions for submitting
[15:28] <Ugi> I would e-mail PBC@
[15:28] <Laurenceb> yeah
[15:29] <Ugi> they usually respond in less than 24 hours to gerber files sent to that address
[15:29] <Ugi> PCB obviousl
[15:29] <Ugi> y
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[16:05] Action: Laurenceb is playing with an automated blood pressure cuff
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[16:07] <Laurenceb> 121/75 - is there any significance to the diastolic being slightly low?
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[16:07] <Laurenceb> can find anyone talking about the ratio of the two
[16:09] <Laurenceb> * i can't
[16:10] <Laurenceb> oh apparently it can indicate dehydration.. that may be true
[16:11] Action: Laurenceb grabs something to drink
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[16:21] <Adam012> Hi all, I have a few questions that I haven't yet been able to answer.
[16:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> q42
[16:22] <Adam012> A HAB project often falls for 15-25 minutes before it hits the Troposphere. Do they often break the sound barrier and if not why not?
[16:23] <Willdude123> Hi
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[16:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> They fall fast above the Troposphere, but only because the air density is lower, I guess it depends on what the speed of sound is at that density.
[16:25] <bertrik> Adam012: I've seen descent speeds of about 60 m/s, so nowhere the sound barrier
[16:26] <eroomde> Adam012: no they usually don't
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[16:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> remember it doesn't excatly HIT the troposphere, its just lower density all the way up
[16:26] <eroomde> because their equilibrium speed is lower than the speed of sound
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[16:27] <eroomde> it's all to do with the ratio between its weight and its frontalarea/shape
[16:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> so he never saw the answers!
[16:27] <eroomde> one of ours would certainly have gone supersonic
[16:27] <Seejjay> Afternoon,
[16:27] <Seejjay> Geoff-G8DHE - On Saturday you sent a screen shot showing you tracking 2 payloads with fldigi. Can I do that using the FUNcube Dongle and if so, how?
[16:27] <eroomde> we deliberately wanted to get it to the beginnings of transonic for the test, where we then deployed the chute
[16:28] <eroomde> but it would have happily gone supersonic if we'd left it
[16:28] <Ugi> eroomde: I assume you aren't getting normal hobby clearance for this type of thing!
[16:29] <arko> eroomde!
[16:30] <Laurenceb> who cares how fast it is
[16:30] <Laurenceb> its still lightweight
[16:30] <Laurenceb> and an plane it hits is likely to be going >M0.8
[16:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not sure withthe FCD I use a standard TV Dongle and SDR-Radio supports 6 seperate VFO's with independent audio out feeds each channeled to a seperate copy of dl-fldigi
[16:30] <Adam012_> Thanks guys, I saw Geoff's comment about the Troposphere and everything after but I missed what went before due to a glitch forcing me offline.
[16:31] <Adam012_> My second question is this: When we flew Horizon 2 to 32km we couldn't see any stars. Is this because our side of the planet was exposed to the sun at the time?
[16:32] <Ugi> Adam012_: I think the summary is - No, because the surface area to weight is too high.
[16:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> Seejjay, see here for the VAC software I use
[16:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker?s[]=vac
[16:32] <mfa298> Seejjay: you can with the FCD and sdr-radio but the both need to be in the supported bandwidth (192khz for the pro+)
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[16:33] <bertrik> habanero2 got some pictures of the moon, but no stars IIRC
[16:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah yes SDR-Radio supports FCD hadn't spotted it before!
[16:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> The normal TV Dongle lets you go up to 2MHz bandwidth which helps of course ;-)
[16:35] <Adam012_> The moon is nearby and may be lit by the sun though. Stars are different as their light travels from a great distance away and I wonder if it is washed out by reflected light from the Earth's surface.
[16:35] <mfa298> the issue I've had is often if there are two active flights they've been too far apart frequency wise for the FCD Pro+
[16:37] <Seejjay> Ah, OK, I was using SDR#, so I will have a play with SDR-Radio later - thanks for that! I was wondering about frequency separation, but still learning. Did my HAM stuf back in the 70's - never did sit the exam!! Cars and women came along!!!
[16:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> I'll put a screen grab up in a moment showing how it all links, iused SDR# till I heard about SDR-Radio, much nicer once you get used to it!
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[16:41] <Ugi> anyone got any advice on setting up the VAC under windows XP?
[16:41] <Ugi> I can set it up on Win 7
[16:41] <Ugi> but my netbook runs XP
[16:41] <Ugi> and I can't make SDR# talk to dl-fldigi
[16:41] <eroomde> Ugi: what's normal hobby clearance?
[16:42] <Ugi> As in in the CAA would not be happy if I proposed doing that!
[16:42] <eroomde> how do you know?
[16:42] <eroomde> cos that's what i did
[16:42] <Ugi> I don't - I just wonder
[16:42] <eroomde> i'm no different to anyone else
[16:42] <eroomde> just explained what i was trying to do
[16:42] <eroomde> arko:
[16:43] <Ugi> I thought that since they didn't like gliders because they are faster than 'chutes
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[16:43] <Ugi> they would not be keen on ballistic payloads
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[16:43] <eroomde> find the right person to talk to
[16:43] <eroomde> and talk to them
[16:43] <eroomde> the rule for getting anything done
[16:43] <Ugi> the first part is the trick!
[16:44] <eroomde> well yes
[16:44] <arko> eroomde: dude, edl sim talk was epic
[16:45] <eroomde> go on
[16:45] <arko> went through how they simulated and told stories on the early days (pathfinder)
[16:45] <Seejjay> Geoff-G8DHE: Thanks you.
[16:46] <arko> mentioned how now days engineers can get lazy and start to use these simulations as if its real life
[16:46] <arko> less thinking and more shotgun method
[16:46] <arko> then went over the important of good design and understand
[16:46] <arko> using the simulation only as a method of design verification
[16:47] <eroomde> did you know also you can get licenses to transmit watts and watts from your airborne experiment?
[16:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> See http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/index.php?ind=2 The orange is the second channel the greeen is the first channel two seperate copies of VAC running then just drop the audio from SDR-Radio into the right channel and configure dl-fldigi to use the correct channel I have a batch file that will ask for the number of channels and run the relevant copies
[16:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> each dl-fldigi has its own config setup for the right channel
[16:47] <arko> he said how great it was during the pathfinder days since simulations took 2 months so they really had to concentrate and confirm input and verify outputs, otherwise months of work is wrong
[16:48] <Ugi> eroomde: I didn't know that. Under what (watt) circumstances?
[16:48] <arko> then he dove right into technique
[16:48] <eroomde> well, ofcom experimental licenses
[16:48] <eroomde> the trick is basically to not say 'i'm a radio amateur hobbyist'
[16:48] <eroomde> because they'll jus tthink you're a timewaster
[16:48] <eroomde> and instead declare yourself a radio professional rather than a radio amateur
[16:49] <arko> pretty cool how they integrated gnc and the sim, then spent lots of time verifying the validity of simulations (component by component)
[16:49] <eroomde> and just sort of be serious about it (i'm saying this in a slightly inflamatory way cos that's how they see it - not because i think radio amateurs 9i am one) don't know what they're doing)
[16:49] <Ugi> eroomde: I would struggle to pull that off - but maybe in a while
[16:49] <eroomde> same with the CAA
[16:50] <eroomde> not 'i've done something in my shed' but 'i'm doing research for mars landing parachutes'
[16:50] <eroomde> like with jokes it's the way you say it
[16:51] <Seejjay> Geodd-G8DHE: I'll need to look at that when I get back home - just looked at the time and need to leave now, or dinner 'will be in the dog' I'll be back in about 2 hours. Thanks for what you have shown me.
[16:51] <Ugi> Sure, but best not to outright lie I suspect
[16:51] <eroomde> Ugi: no indeed
[16:51] <Ugi> many of these things are only valid if the representations that you made were true
[16:51] <eroomde> but there's a whole way of selling truth
[16:51] <eroomde> without lying
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[16:52] <Babs__> eroomde - its known as corporate finance
[16:52] <eroomde> we were 4 undergrads when we did that. but for the purposes of this we were a research team at the university of blah
[16:52] <Ugi> Fair enough. And a University department address would help a lot I suspect
[16:53] <Babs__> If I had a penny for every time that someone said to me "We've had a huge amount of interest in this asset" only to find we were the only game in town....
[16:53] <Babs__> I'd have about 18p
[16:53] <eroomde> lucrative
[16:53] <eroomde> but then they would by lying
[16:53] <Babs__> lucrative, but where?
[16:53] <Babs__> in Africa 18p can be a pretty penny, no pun intended
[16:54] <Babs__> however, in the geographies in which most corporate financiers operate, its worth naff all
[16:55] <Babs__> Watching all of the discussion today, i feel my stabilotron II to photograph the eclipse has already become obsolete before I've even connected up the servos to the arduino
[16:56] <eroomde> actual hardware makes people shut up
[16:56] <Babs__> *#highaltitude laughs in unison at my use of an arduino and servos
[16:56] <eroomde> until then it's all BS you should ignore
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[16:56] <eroomde> lots of people, me included, are good at getting into theoretical discussions
[16:57] <eroomde> but it's a heap of crap compared to actual hardware
[16:57] <Ugi> Babs__: If you've made it and it works then you get a thumbs up from me!
[16:59] <Babs__> Ugi - a 2014 flight with a compact camera consistently pointing at a large structure on the ground as it goes up in the air (footie stadium, small body of water or something) on a consistent basis is what I am shooting for and I think broadly doable.
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[16:59] <mattbrejza> if you want a to just point a camera in a direction and take a photo with a short exposure servos should work fine
[17:00] <Babs__> Followed by a wide angle SLR flight with brushless motors (once I work out what they are)
[17:02] <Babs__> I've already got past the quaternions quatschmertions stage.
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[17:03] <Ugi> Babs__: Sounds like a great project to me and an Arduino or two should surely be able to handle it.
[17:03] <Ugi> why use an ARM if an AVR will do?
[17:04] <Ugi> In fact, I like using the little ATtiny85s
[17:04] <Ugi> they are fabulous for the 50p they cost!
[17:04] <Babs__> Ugi - got two arduinos and two wireless shields
[17:04] <Ugi> one for the sensor data and one for communication?
[17:05] <Babs__> Ugi - exactly. One does the maths for the IMU and drives the servos, one does the GPS and communication.
[17:06] <Babs__> the latter communicating with the former so the former can work out a bearing to point the camera in the correct direction
[17:06] <Ugi> Could you not just link them by Serial rather than wireless?
[17:06] <Ugi> Must be more reliable
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[17:07] <Babs__> (Of course this is all in my head) but
[17:07] <Babs__> you need two counterrotating capsules to enable the package to rotate and point without autorotating
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[17:08] <Babs__> so this might be the best way of spreading the weight
[17:08] <Ugi> I see - and you don't want to have wires between to get twisted...
[17:08] <Babs__> exactly
[17:09] <Ugi> figures
[17:09] <Babs__> when it comes down to it there might be a way around it, but with a house move done this week and impending doom - I mean marriage - in two weeks the only way I can sate my HAB habit is to buy some cool electronics
[17:10] <Ugi> fair enough.
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[17:10] <iain_G4SGX> Don't think Ill be tracking tonight, just cant get DLflidgi to use the FCD sound input no matter what I do, had the same with my old computer thought it was just that install but exactly the same on the new lappy with windows 7
[17:10] <Babs__> ahh, the other thing was that even if you were able to put the two arduinos in one package, the external batteries to drive the cameras need to go somewhere, which would mean some complicated brush arrangement between the two capsules to give it constant power
[17:10] <Ugi> I wouldn't panic about the marriage bit too much - we were 13 years this week and it seems to be workign out!
[17:11] <Babs__> You got married aged 13?
[17:11] <Ugi> yes
[17:11] <Ugi> I mean no
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[17:11] <Ugi> we have been married for 13 years this week.
[17:11] <Babs__> Ugi = Jerry Lee Lewis
[17:11] <Babs__> ahhh, I understand. congrats!
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[17:12] <Ugi> 13 is not a particularly special number but it's quite nice - you can remember how long you've been married fairly easily from the year!
[17:13] <Gadget-Mac> Babs__: something like http://www.adafruit.com/products/736
[17:14] <Ugi> Ooo.. that's cool
[17:14] <Babs__> ooo. nice... gadget mac
[17:14] <Gadget-Mac> you could potentiallly do power + serial
[17:14] <Babs__> although i will have to wait until i am home before typing "Slip Ring with Flange" into google to avoid getting sacked.
[17:15] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[17:15] <Laurenceb> ooh nice
[17:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Guys
[17:15] <Laurenceb> 6 wires... enough for two motors :P
[17:15] <mfa298> iain_G4SGX: what software are you using with the FCD to convert the radio into audio ?
[17:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> mfa298: iain_G4SGX I'm wondering if the driver installed correctly.
[17:16] <mfa298> with the FCD Pro+ I've just plugged it in and it's worked
[17:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> My Mate let me play with the first version and it hiccuped.
[17:17] <mfa298> you need something like sdr-radio, sdr# or hdsdr to convert radio into audio, then feed that audio into dl-fldiig
[17:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> I had SDR# running on it but it wasn't great. Maybe the new one is an improvement.
[17:18] <mfa298> sdr-radio is possibly the most useful option (multiple vfo's) but takes a bit more getting used to
[17:18] <Laurenceb> ooh 12 wires
[17:18] <Laurenceb> http://www.adafruit.com/products/1195
[17:20] <G0TDJ_Steve> Recieved my order of 3x Foil balloons today.... so it starts...
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[17:21] <Babs__> Laurenceb - i wonder whether there is any discontuity of power at any point, even for ms?
[17:22] <Babs__> I used an external battery to drive the SLR in BABSHAB, and if it didn't receive power for any length of time it shut down (and then of course needs to be manually reset)
[17:22] <Babs__> I guess the only thing would be to test it by spinning it around a lot (or else putting a switch in series with the external battery and SLR, and seeing how much (if any) power disruption time it could handle
[17:23] <Babs__> - if say 0.5 seconds, then this thing would work
[17:23] <Gadget-Mac> Those slip rings are rated at 300ms
[17:23] <Gadget-Mac> 300 revs
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[17:24] <Babs__> 300 revs, or 300 ms?
[17:24] <Gadget-Mac> 300 revs
[17:24] <Gadget-Mac> you could put a capacitor on the camera side, that would probably smooth any problems
[17:25] <iain_G4SGX> Using SDR sharp, got audio coming out the speakers ok but the levels are well down for flidgi, got all mixer controls full on
[17:25] <Babs__> Gadget-Mac - clever - so the capacitor just charges up and then once charged passes through the current on a consistent basis
[17:25] <Babs__> and then if the power is disrupted the capacitor discharges?
[17:25] <Babs__> before the slip ring reconnects?
[17:25] <Babs__> (I know nothing about electronics)
[17:26] <G0TDJ_Steve> iain_G4SGX: I had a problem like that once. It turned out to be Quicktime, I'd gone in and reduced the volume and it turned it down globally. Worth a look if you have QT installed.
[17:26] <Gadget-Mac> watch the vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cngf_eyV_l8 Babs__
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[17:27] <Gadget-Mac> Thats SPI LEDs running through the slip ring
[17:29] <Babs__> Its more the theoretical impact of a disrupted power supply (however small the disruption) through the slip ring on a camera that requires a continuous power supply rather than how to connect it up
[17:29] <mfa298> iain_G4SGX: you might need to look in the record settings, presumably you're using stereo mix or VAC to get audio from sdr# to dl-fldigi
[17:29] <Babs__> an arduino tracker would just reboot and get on with things
[17:30] <Babs__> but a camera running magic lantern or CHDK needs to be manually set for intervalometer every time it reboots
[17:30] <Gadget-Mac> Babs__: Get one and try it
[17:31] <Babs__> yes, agree
[17:31] <Babs__> *agreed
[17:31] <Babs__> its a cool bit of kit
[17:31] <Gadget-Mac> I suspect it's probably fine, and you can work round it as I said
[17:34] <Ugi> Babs__: You are right about the cap' - it would supply power for the short time that the slip-ring might disconnect.
[17:34] <Babs__> Ugi - then that would definitely work. Excellent.
[17:34] <Ugi> It does depend, however on how much current the camera needs and how long the disconnects are
[17:35] <Ugi> however, I suspect they will be very short if any
[17:35] <Ugi> safer to add a nice fat cap' in there just to be sure, however
[17:35] <iain_G4SGX> Yeh, all mixer settings on full. Line in level from SDR very low still. CAnt find another record level control
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[17:36] <Ugi> the low temperature might make things fit slightly less well than they normally do.
[17:36] <M0CJM_Neil> \clear
[17:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> iain_G4SGX: Did you see my comment^
[17:36] <M0CJM_Neil> Evening all
[17:36] <Ugi> gotta run guys - TTFN
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[17:38] <iain_G4SGX> G0TDJ_Steve: yep, no quick time installed, its a new install of windows 7
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[17:42] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE
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[17:48] <G0TDJ_Steve> I wish when you dropped out of here there was some kind of indication....
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[17:49] <mfa298> G0TDJ_Steve: if you got a standard irc client it should indicate if you've dropped ou
[17:49] <mfa298> out
[17:49] <G0TDJ_Steve> No, I use the web interface normally. Click on the nme in Tracker
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[17:52] <mfa298> you could try something like xchat on windows instead of the web interface which should show if it's disconnected
[17:53] <mfa298> LeoBodnar is giving ISH a bad name, already on the map
[17:53] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey LeoBodnar - mfa298 Yeah. I used to use mIRC years ago. Might look it up
[17:53] <LeoBodnar> B-5 is launching 5 min early this time 434.500 MHz DominoEX16
[17:53] <arko> go Leo!
[17:53] <G0TDJ_Steve> LeoBodnar: Is that... now?
[17:54] <M0CJM_Neil> Ready to track here
[17:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> SCRAMBLE!
[17:55] <arko> LeoBodnar: I'm going to get my station in Los Angeles setup :) lets hope you make it over here
[17:55] <G0TDJ_Steve> ...Actually, switch radio on and listen, get tracker window open
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[17:56] <G0TDJ_Steve> Blimey, is it up already?
[17:56] <LeoBodnar> Yep now!
[17:56] <Babs__> The fact that B-5 has a main bus b rocks
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[17:56] <g6uim> if B-5 does come past me will track as far as can out to sea
[17:57] <Babs__> if it RTTYs "undervolt" I am calling Ron Howard
[17:57] <daveake> Hope it doesn't have an undervolt
[17:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> Can someone give me a freq when they have aquired B5 pls
[17:57] <daveake> "UKHAS We have a problem"
[17:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ooops, what's going on?
[17:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> Not climbing?
[17:58] <LazyLeopard> GPS altitude issues?
[17:59] <Babs__> daveake - to be fair, this http://manufacturingpearls.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/apollo-13-air-scrubber1.png looks pretty much like my workbench
[17:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ah! THat looks more healthy 105m
[17:59] <LazyLeopard> Either that or it's gone mining....
[17:59] <arko> LeoBodnar: don't sir those O2 tanks
[17:59] <LeoBodnar> we don't need no GPS alt - two pressure altimeters on board :)
[18:00] <Babs__> LeoBodnar - when you say balloon pressure, is it inside the balloon itself, or inside the capsule?
[18:01] <Adam012_> Quick question: When we flew Horizon 2 to 32km we couldn't see any stars. Is this because our side of the planet was exposed to the sun at the time?
[18:01] <Upu> its in the balloon Babs__
[18:01] <Upu> too bright Adam012_
[18:02] <Upu> you can usually spot the moon
[18:02] <Adam012_> Thought so, thanks!
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[18:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> Adam012_: Upu That definitely makes me want to do a night flight ;-)
[18:03] <Babs__> Upu - cool. I thought so by the slight pressure difference.
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[18:04] <Babs__> Presumably from the pressure differential and the mass of the capsule, one could estimate air resistance on the way up.
[18:04] <Adam012_> Funnily enough, that was what I have been toying with. Do the CAA have anything against night flights?
[18:05] <G0TDJ_Steve> Adam012_: There's a lot less air traffic.
[18:06] <Adam012_> I figured, I'm not even sure they run any passenger flights after 1am (probably still running military and shipping)
[18:06] <LeoBodnar> INside the balloon Babs__
[18:08] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, I'm sure you're right. Still, I'd love to send one up. I'd like to put a strobe on it to see how far it would be visible.
[18:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> Pretty slow climb LeoBodnar Were you expecting this?
[18:09] <G8KNN> LeoBodnar:Is B-5 doing discontinuous transmissions?
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[18:10] <M0CJM_Neil> Getting data in Basingstoke
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[18:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nothing in Crayford but it needs to be way higher.
[18:12] <arko> wow thats a low altitude
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[18:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> arko: Yeah...
[18:12] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> Is there a dial freq ?
[18:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> arko: It could be mis-reporting though?
[18:13] <M0CJM_Neil> 434.500.40 puts it about 1200Hz centre for me
[18:14] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> Tks , I take it it hasn't launched yet despite the track?
[18:14] <mattbrejza> 900m alt i reckon
[18:14] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> Oh it is tracking just very low ?
[18:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> Geoff-G8DHE: Launched abut 10mins ago
[18:15] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> Oh!
[18:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> Still nothing here but B4 was near Oxford when I first heard it.
[18:16] <arko> G0TDJ_Steve: I dont think so, the barometer isn't changing with it very much
[18:16] <LazyLeopard> Just seeing bits of data here.
[18:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK arko
[18:16] <arko> oh wait
[18:16] <arko> i take that back
[18:16] <Upu> thats odd
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[18:16] <arko> pressure is changing
[18:16] <mattbrejza> beginning to get data in soton
[18:16] <mattbrejza> so yea its going up
[18:17] <arko> started off at 95 and its now 89 and dropping
[18:17] <LazyLeopard> Heh. Elevation -0.4.
[18:17] <arko> G0TDJ_Steve: you win :P
[18:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-P
[18:17] <mattbrejza> 1024m
[18:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> mattbrejza: Is that from the telemetry?
[18:18] <mattbrejza> yea
[18:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cool
[18:18] <Upu> so why isn't it updating ?
[18:18] <mattbrejza> because thats from pressure
[18:18] <Upu> ah ok
[18:18] <mattbrejza> and gps alt is broke
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[18:18] <Upu> but location is fine
[18:19] <Upu> wierd
[18:19] <LeoBodnar> GPS altitude issues of some sort
[18:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> So the altitude that mattbrejza reported from the telemetry is read by air pressure rather than the GPS hence no sync with Tracker?
[18:19] <LeoBodnar> Pressure altitue is OK
[18:19] <Upu> bet that could be hot fixed
[18:19] <mattbrejza> 1135m
[18:20] <G0TDJ_Steve> Keep 'em coming mattbrejza
[18:20] <mattbrejza> yea im gonna check on my pizza in a moment
[18:20] <mattbrejza> someone get something to do it automaticalluy :P
[18:20] <Upu> whats the pressure in ?
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[18:21] <mattbrejza> 10s of mb
[18:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> I wouldn't mind if I could hear it mattbrejza
[18:21] <mattbrejza> the pressure is on sn.us
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[18:22] <mattbrejza> altitude might be fixing itself though
[18:22] <LeoBodnar> Yep, GPS altimeter is inop. Use good'ol barometric one :)
[18:22] <LeoBodnar> Must be Main Bus B undervolt.
[18:22] <arko> lol
[18:22] <arko> you now have 15 minutes to boot up the LEM
[18:22] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> Well the GPS one is changing now ?
[18:22] <Upu> thats wierd
[18:23] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> Oh has it reall turned back on itself
[18:23] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> Ah n
[18:24] Nick change: [1]Geoff-G8DHE -> Geoff-G8DHE_
[18:24] <arko> looks like Leo just had the glitch for this mission
[18:25] <G0TDJ_Steve> Blue footprint past Crayford
[18:25] <Babs__> Has anyone got a new waistcoat? That might help.
[18:26] <mfa298> I'm suspecting that altitude is still bogus, just saw an ascent rate of 12m/s
[18:26] <arko> has anyone plotted the baro?
[18:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> Anyone here good at moving mountains, well actually a small hill
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[18:31] <mattbrejza> gps alt is 100m more than pressure alt
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[18:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> Still nothing received in my (rather useless) location. Hopefully it'll get over my horizon soon.
[18:36] <M0CJM_Neil> Constant green decods here
[18:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nice one Neil
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[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[18:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> Goooooooooooooooooood Evening! :D
[18:37] <Maxell> oh hai
[18:38] <Maxell> Once again the Dutchies will have a boring evening :(
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[18:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening All
[18:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: what envelope is B5 ?
[18:41] <Adam012_> Is B-5 on sn.us?
[18:41] <KT5TK_QRL> Yep
[18:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> Spacenear.us? Yes
[18:42] <mfa298> nice one, I just got: $$Brew,292,184105
[18:42] <mfa298> I think it's telling me something
[18:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL
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[18:42] <number10> i was going to relaunch nanu tomorrow.. I'll save that untill the predictions go towards the east Maxell
[18:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> Interesting how similar B5's route is to B4 but different ascent
[18:43] <eroomde> back
[18:43] <LeoBodnar> SP9UOB-Tom: 36" Qualatex foil (0.9m for SI guys) http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-5/
[18:43] <eroomde> any ideas why the discrete change in ascent rate at 1.5km?
[18:43] <LazyLeopard> eroomde: Just before that the GPS altitude "fixed" itself...
[18:44] <LazyLeopard> ...so altitudes before that are dodgy/stuck/whatever.
[18:44] Ferran (5f3f61c4@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[18:44] <Ferran> hello
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[18:45] <eroomde> er what?
[18:46] <LazyLeopard> Launch was just before that small descent before 18:00. Then the GPS began giving duff altitude values.
[18:46] <eroomde> so that's like 6 minutes of very wrong altitudes?
[18:46] <LazyLeopard> Yes.
[18:46] <eroomde> oh launch was just b4 6
[18:46] <eroomde> sorry
[18:46] <eroomde> ok
[18:46] <eroomde> that's still really really odd
[18:46] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: what mode is the gps in?
[18:47] <LeoBodnar> Predicted trajectory for the next 24 hours http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/13864_trj001.gif
[18:47] <arko> awww
[18:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> LeoBodnar: It's be nice if it did do that. I might get to receive it! LOL
[18:48] <G0TDJ_Steve> Sorry arko
[18:48] <arko> i was hoping it would come to los angeles :(
[18:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: i had one of those floating :-)
[18:48] <LeoBodnar> Maybe it will arko, via China XD
[18:49] <LeoBodnar> We had B-3 and B-4 floating at 7500 m
[18:49] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-5/Pages/1.html AWESOME :-)
[18:50] <LeoBodnar> SP9UOB-Tom: B-3 6800m in the night, B-4 went up to 7700 m during the day http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-3/ http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-4/
[18:50] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: what mode is the gps in?
[18:50] <LeoBodnar> Yep, fed it up balloon's arse with a probe to stay inside (hopefully)
[18:50] <LeoBodnar> eroomde: Ah, Airborne <1g
[18:50] <LeoBodnar> G
[18:51] <eroomde> that alt vs time graph is really really bizarre
[18:51] <eroomde> if it is due to the gps being confused
[18:51] <eroomde> i've never seen anything like that
[18:51] <eroomde> ublox 6?
[18:51] <LeoBodnar> It is wrong, but I don'y know why. Barometric readings are fine
[18:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: solar powered ?
[18:51] <LeoBodnar> I have used a half wave dipole for GPS antenna
[18:52] <LeoBodnar> Assisted rather than powered
[18:52] <arko> interesting antenna for the gps
[18:52] <eroomde> yes
[18:52] <eroomde> interesting
[18:52] <Geoff-G8DHE_> How is the dipole positioned ?
[18:52] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: ok, how are You connecting solar cells with battery?
[18:52] <LeoBodnar> arko it's sort of dipole considering the rest of the body
[18:53] <eroomde> but it's veru difficult, i'd have thought, for a gps to spend 7 minutes to drift to the right position
[18:53] <arko> ah
[18:53] <eroomde> in a sort of monotonically ascending way
[18:53] <LeoBodnar> With a massive ugly bodge directly to Main Bus B.
[18:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: in parallel with diodes ?
[18:53] <arko> main bus b is the solar panel?
[18:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> bodge? Must chech in dictionary
[18:54] <LeoBodnar> No, it feed system Vdd directly, don't do it
[18:54] <LeoBodnar> It's last minute bodge because I got some solar panels courtesy Upu
[18:54] <eroomde> hmm, i guess if you're feeding a gps with a wobby vcc then all bets are off
[18:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> SP9UOB-Tom: Strapped together for function, not done tidily
[18:55] <SP9UOB-Tom> ah i see
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[18:55] <SP9UOB-Tom> and what about reverse current?
[18:55] <SP9UOB-Tom> solar panel reverse current
[18:55] <LeoBodnar> There is only one goal for this mission - research transition from ZP flight into super-pressured flight and find out solar gain at the sunrise (if we make it that far.)
[18:55] Action: SpeedEvil sighs at sikorski prize fail.
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> (It being won due to bad definitions)
[18:56] <LeoBodnar> The rest is just decoration.
[18:56] <LeoBodnar> Vcc is quite stable eroomde,
[18:56] <eroomde> how are you reserahcing the transition - do you have balloon delta-pressure?
[18:56] <LeoBodnar> 2.0V bang on
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[18:57] <eroomde> ah i must have misread what you said at the top
[18:57] <LeoBodnar> I have two sensors, one on the outside, another is inside the balloon
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> http://inhabitat.com/aerovelo-human-powered-helicopter-scoops-elusive-250000-sikorsky-prize/ - this is really cool - but it's not a helicopter if it can't get out of ground effect
[18:57] <eroomde> would be interesting to see what they say. i think the delta-p might be lots in the noise for a pair of absolute mems sensors
[18:57] <eroomde> though i guess this is quite a lot lower altitude than normal habs
[18:58] <LeoBodnar> SP9UOB-Tom: diode is in line with Solar panel to avoid leakage during the night
[18:58] <Herman-PB0AHX> good evenind to all
[18:58] <Herman-PB0AHX> evening
[18:58] <arko> wow
[18:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good evenind Herman :-)
[18:58] <arko> thats awesome, im excited to see this data
[18:58] <arko> :)
[18:58] <Herman-PB0AHX> hi Steve
[18:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: I see. Im working on solar/lipol PSU dor long duration hab
[18:58] <LeoBodnar> Expecting 7kPa at burst
[18:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> Herman, do you use CW?
[18:59] <eroomde> mmmm, this is a much nicer thing to measure than a latex hab floating at 35km
[19:00] <KT5TK_QRL> Is there a way to display the pressure data on spacenear.us?
[19:01] <LeoBodnar> SP9UOB-Tom: I thought solar panel would look cool and it won't hurt http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-5/Images/9.jpg I have stripped it down to 0.7g
[19:01] <Herman-PB0AHX> yes i can cw
[19:01] <KT5TK_QRL> Like in a graph?
[19:01] <eroomde> KT5TK_QRL: http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/
[19:01] <eroomde> click the telemetry graph tab
[19:01] <G0TDJ_Steve> Herman-PB0AHX: Your call is familiar, I may have worked you :D
[19:02] <LeoBodnar> eroomde: sensors are not calibrated (unfortunately) due to lack of time and lab gear but we should see their readings diverge at the point of super-pressurisation
[19:02] <eroomde> nice
[19:02] <eroomde> so should be able to get something
[19:02] <Herman-PB0AHX> yes is posible i work lot of cw last yearsthis year less
[19:03] <eroomde> you should pop south to westcott if you want to borrow some nice pressure cal stuff
[19:03] <eroomde> we do a lot of pressure sensor calibration :)
[19:03] <LeoBodnar> I wouldn't mind eroomde but just a nice float at night will do just fine :)
[19:03] <arko> eroomde: wow! this is awesome!
[19:03] <KT5TK_QRL> Thanks, eroomde, but the page is quite empty and says No vehicles :(
[19:03] <arko> i didnt know this existed
[19:03] <M0CJM_Neil> eroomde Who do you work for?
[19:04] <SpeedEvil> International Rescue.
[19:04] <LeoBodnar> eroomde: I feel our paths will cross at some point :)
[19:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: :-)
[19:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> Herman-PB0AHX: I'll dig my log out sometime :D
[19:04] <mfa298> KT5TK_QRL: it works for me but takes a little while for things to appear
[19:04] <eroomde> M0CJM_Neil: i small rocket propulsion research consultancy called Airborne Engineering
[19:04] <Ferran> it works for me
[19:04] <LeoBodnar> OK chaps, I am going home, back in 30 min
[19:05] <Herman-PB0AHX> steve u have a log ??? hihihihi
[19:05] <KT5TK_QRL> Ah, it works with Chromium, but not with Iceweasel
[19:05] <eroomde> we mostly work with a company called Reaction Engines who are just south of oxford, but we do other consulting and instrumentation for people
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[19:05] <mfa298> KT5TK_QRL: failing that you can download the raw data from http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
[19:05] <M0CJM_Neil> Ahh Ok, I work for Gems Sensors, a pressure transducer manufacturer. Wondered if you had seen or heard os our products
[19:05] <eroomde> yep!
[19:05] <G0TDJ_Steve> Herman-PB0AHX: :D Digital... on a Hard Drive... Somewhere LOL
[19:05] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ah ha just becoming visible onwf
[19:05] <KT5TK_QRL> Nice
[19:05] <Maxell> number10: woot.
[19:05] <M0CJM_Neil> eroomde Ahh wondered if you had
[19:06] <Herman-PB0AHX> steve me too i have a digital log but is very old
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Oh - I thought you were direct Reaction Engines.
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> hmm.
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[19:07] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: it's more complicated than i just made out
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:07] <eroomde> the 4 of us are sort of spun out
[19:07] <G0TDJ_Steve> Herman-PB0AHX: I use HRD. If I work a station, it goes in there. I recently changed PCs
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[19:07] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Ah - intricate corporate structures ala starbucks - to hide the billions in profit.
[19:07] <eroomde> bingo
[19:08] <Herman-PB0AHX> B5 must go up than i can trace him
[19:08] <G0TDJ_Steve> How do I find out what elevation B5 is with respect to my position?
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[19:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> Don't feel bad Herman, I can't hear it yet
[19:09] ian_g4sgx (577019c6@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[19:09] <SpeedEvil> G0TDJ_Steve: the green circle is 5 degrees.
[19:09] <SpeedEvil> the blue one is the horizon
[19:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> SpeedEvil: Can you quantify that for me please?
[19:10] <ian_g4sgx> Found a temporary fix for my sound issues, a patch lead between mic and speaker, will do for now.
[19:10] <Maxell> How would you even decode it if you can't see it on the waterfall or hear it?!
[19:10] <Herman-PB0AHX> i will test new vertikal antenne 15 elements vertical on 70 cm
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> G0TDJ_Steve: If your position on the map is on the green circle, then you will see the balloon at 5 degrees over the horizontal.
[19:10] <mfa298> ian_g4sgx: it might be worth trying virtual audio cable - it does the same thing but in software
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> Maxell: Click the 'use the force' button.
[19:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ahh right. The green circle needs to double to get to me yet...
[19:10] <Upu> RX in sunny Yorkshire
[19:10] <Maxell> what
[19:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> ian_g4sgx: Well done :D
[19:11] <Maxell> SpeedEvil: wat
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> Maxell: never mind - bad star wars joke.
[19:11] <Maxell> wat
[19:11] <ian_g4sgx> Yep, VAC it is i thinlk
[19:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> What's B5's actual height?
[19:16] <Geoff-G8DHE_> about 8cms I think going by the ruler
[19:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL
[19:16] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ah no 6cms then the whip aerial ;-)
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[19:18] Action: LazyLeopard figures the GPS is now giving a reasonable approximation of the actual altitude...
[19:18] <eroomde> am still confused by that
[19:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> THanks LazyLeopard
[19:18] <eroomde> very odd to have a gps spend nearly 10 minutes gradually catching up with the right position
[19:18] <Upu> I would concur as it appeared on my horizon when it should
[19:18] <Upu> yeah that very odd
[19:19] <LazyLeopard> I wonder whether the satellite geometry was sub-optimal at that time?
[19:20] <eroomde> very improbable
[19:20] <eroomde> out latitude is not that high
[19:20] <eroomde> and you shouldn't get such weird offsets
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[19:20] <Upu> *cough* code
[19:20] <Geoff-G8DHE_> With the aerial for the gps beig a vertical dipole (of sorts) then it might not hear much above it just the horizon
[19:21] <eroomde> yes indeed, quite poss the vertical reading are much coarser
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[19:21] <LazyLeopard> Was the satellite count low for those early fixes?
[19:21] <Geoff-G8DHE_> I saw 5
[19:21] <eroomde> 5 is plenty
[19:22] <eroomde> there'd be some overhead ones among that lot probably
[19:22] <Geoff-G8DHE_> yer 6&7 as well
[19:22] <LazyLeopard> File under weird.
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[19:22] <LeoBodnar> No, maybe it is due to strange multipath propagation? I am using a sort of dipole and it is under reflective aluminised envelope
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[19:22] <eroomde> possibly
[19:23] <eroomde> but
[19:23] <eroomde> hmm
[19:23] <eroomde> well i don't think so
[19:23] <Upu> but it got the location correct
[19:23] <eroomde> so the chip rate is 1.023MHz
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> btw, for the problem of the NTX2 shift being just 85 Hz, I desoldered and measured the resistors today, they are 4k7 and 33k, just like on the other board where they work, so it was a problem of connecting it correctly
[19:23] <eroomde> well actually that's not mega relevant
[19:23] <LeoBodnar> Quite close to the balloon and there is also a data cable going upwards into the insides of the balloon
[19:23] <eroomde> but the multipath from a balloon within a few meters should not significantly delay the chips
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[19:24] <eroomde> i mean i guess it is most probably some kind of SNR issue but it's wierd that the internal filter would behave in that was as a result
[19:24] <LeoBodnar> Well, I have no reasonable explanation, just mumnling XD
[19:24] <LeoBodnar> b
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> You don't need much attidude dependant time-skew to do really odd things.
[19:24] <eroomde> previously we've seen them try and hold an alt, then give up and make a discrete jump upwards, then try and hold a bit longer, then jump, repeat
[19:25] <eroomde> i guess that 1800-1820 thing could plausibly be that
[19:25] <LeoBodnar> Sats overhead are probably blocked by the balloon so alt accuracy is reduced. I'll downlink the DOP for altitude next time
[19:26] <LeoBodnar> Maybe it has picked up overhead satellite signal reflection from the ground?
[19:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> I am on the right freq 434.500 +/-
[19:27] <Geoff-G8DHE_> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-5/index.php?ind=1
[19:27] <LeoBodnar> There are no reflective surfaces though underneath
[19:27] <LazyLeopard> Yep. 434.500
[19:27] <LeoBodnar> Guys, could you please keep an eye on the TX drift? I have made some changes. I hope they can me called fixes.
[19:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK Still nothing here sadly. I think its the hill I'm behind.
[19:27] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Mine reads 434.499.100 center1243
[19:28] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Hz
[19:28] <LazyLeopard> Then 1425 in the offset.
[19:28] <eroomde> in /mt how do i zoom out on the telemetry graph?
[19:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> Thanks Geoff-G8DHE_
[19:28] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: ok so looking at it
[19:29] <eroomde> just before launch it looks like you had 3 sats only
[19:29] <eroomde> "If the receiver only has 3 SVs for calculating a position, the navigation algorithm uses a constant altitude to
[19:29] <eroomde> compensate for the missing fourth SV."
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[19:29] <eroomde> from section 2.6.1 of the ublox 6 receiver description protocol
[19:30] <eroomde> it then suddenly seems more sats at the point that the altitude started to increase
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[19:31] <eroomde> however in the intervening 20 mins it saw 5 sats but still held the altitude
[19:31] <LeoBodnar> Ah, that might be it. It switches from pedestrian mode into Airborne at 1000m. It would have suppressed fix in Airborne mode in such case which would be better in out case. Maybe I need to make it go into pedestrian only during the descent phase.
[19:31] <eroomde> don't really have a good explanation for that, except perhaps that it had dodgy ephemerides and had to wait for some new sats to come into view to get better ephemerides
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[19:32] <eroomde> yes that's quite plausable
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[19:32] <LeoBodnar> I wouldn't stick one of these MAX-6 in the UAV.
[19:33] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE
[19:33] Possible future nick collision: Geoff-G8DHE
[19:34] <eroomde> their dynamic performance is actually among the best i've seen
[19:35] <eroomde> i think with pedestrian modes the onboard kalman filter probably assumes roughly constant altitude
[19:35] <LeoBodnar> 0.5m/s is not bad for pedestrian. Elevator?
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[19:35] <eroomde> and if the SNR from the antenna is a bit ropey, and the KF actually uses measurements of SNR to decide how much to trust the data and how much to trust the internal model, then that might explain it
[19:36] <eroomde> i.e. it says 'signal poo, keep assuming you're sitting still'
[19:36] <LeoBodnar> I got a bit sick with chip antennas, decided to do something new.
[19:36] <eroomde> :)
[19:36] <eroomde> gps antennas are v tricky
[19:36] <LeoBodnar> Can't be worse! I don't have enough groundplane for chip antenna though to be fair to them.
[19:37] <eroomde> so from the moment it wakes up in altitude to the moment it seems to catch up, is about 3 mins
[19:37] <eroomde> in which time it climbs about 1500m
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[19:37] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, next flight level.
[19:37] <eroomde> which is ballpark 10m/s ascent
[19:38] <G0TDJ_Steve> Still nothing here - Any luck for you Herman-PB0AHX ?
[19:39] <eroomde> pedestrian mode is max 20m/s vertical according to the datasheet
[19:39] <eroomde> hmm, nothing really conclusive
[19:39] <LeoBodnar> Why balloon temperature is lower? Adiabatic expansion or external sensor picks up IR from the ground?
[19:39] <LazyLeopard> eroomde: Best explanation so far, though. ;)
[19:40] <eroomde> my fingers smell of cutting fluid
[19:40] <LeoBodnar> Good stuff
[19:40] <LeoBodnar> Manly stuff, grrrr
[19:40] <eroomde> i know
[19:40] <LazyLeopard> G0TDJ_Steve: Good signal here, USB 434.500 centred 1425.
[19:41] Elijah__ (~elijah@71-209-231-163.phnx.qwest.net) got lost in the net-split.
[19:41] Tygrys^ (tygrys@moo.pl) got lost in the net-split.
[19:41] Boggle (~jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) got lost in the net-split.
[19:41] <eroomde> gotta do a bit of turning each day
[19:41] <eroomde> just to keep the grrr
[19:41] <eroomde> where is the balloon temp sensor located?
[19:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> LazyLeopard: Where are you located?
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[19:41] <eroomde> and where is the external temp sensor located?
[19:41] <LeoBodnar> In the middle of the balloon
[19:41] <LeoBodnar> Inside
[19:41] <eroomde> helium?
[19:41] <LeoBodnar> Yep
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[19:42] <eroomde> and external is outside somewhere?
[19:42] <LeoBodnar> Under the body, covered by reflective mylar "skirt"
[19:42] <eroomde> can it see earth?
[19:42] <eroomde> re adiabatic expansion
[19:42] <LeoBodnar> There could be heat wake airflow from the balloon though.
[19:42] Action: LazyLeopard backscrolls: See http://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=PPO1TS8K (and click the visibility cloak option)
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[19:43] <eroomde> helium actually warms up as it expands
[19:44] <eroomde> it has a different joule-thompson coefficient to almost everything else
[19:44] <eroomde> hydrogen does the same thing though
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[19:47] <iain_G4SGX> he he.. I'm in my nice warm shack, left the lappy on the lawn as the antennas been moved onto a Scam mast at the bottom of my garden and I dont have enough coax yet. Seems to be working fine.
[19:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> I just did the HeyWhatsUp thing again and it reckons I'll hear B5 around the time it reaches Marlborough
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[19:48] <eroomde> cool you've hit the winds taking you to france, it looks like
[19:48] <LeoBodnar> Yep, is there anybody out there tracking?
[19:48] <daveake> and past me
[19:48] <daveake> how do you do that??
[19:49] <eroomde> shoot it down with lasers
[19:49] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ohhh! Suddenly, it moves toward me a little....
[19:49] <LeoBodnar> We keep an eye on you Dave.
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[19:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> Looks like its hitting float ?
[19:50] Nick change: SpeedEvil_ -> SpeedEvil
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[19:52] <Willdude123> Hello people, and daveake. :P
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> Hey
[19:52] <Willdude123> Jk
[19:52] <Willdude123> How's life?
[19:52] <Willdude123> (or lack thereof)
[19:52] <eroomde> interesting flight happening atm
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[19:52] <Maxell_> whaats going on with that floater? omg dutchies going to have good times
[19:53] <LeoBodnar_> Maxell_: predicted path http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-5/NOAA-24h.gif
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[19:54] Nick change: LeoBodnar_ -> LeoBodnar
[19:54] <Upu> going to kill the live prediciton for the moment
[19:54] <eroomde> it's a bit upset innit
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[19:54] <Upu> lets just go on a mystery tour
[19:54] <LeoBodnar> yep, not feeling well for quite awhile
[19:55] <iain_G4SGX> I suppose the cooling affect of wind running past the balloon surface is much greater than for the other temp sensor.
[19:55] <LeoBodnar> to France!
[19:55] <G0TDJ_Steve> The green circle inexorably moves toward Crayford.....
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> predictions still down due to NOAA server?
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[19:56] <LeoBodnar> Upu: you are copying?
[19:56] <Upu> I am
[19:56] <LeoBodnar> cool
[19:57] <mattbrejza> what happened to our email bot :/
[19:58] <Maxell_> LeoBodnar: ah, thats looks OK
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[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> Good evening
[19:59] <Maxell_> oh hai
[19:59] <LeoBodnar> Should be levelling off within the next 800m
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> Just returned from the Goodwood festival of speed. Best event I've ever been to. They had every car you could imagine and many planes too. Sat inside a Cirrus aircraft, absolutely fantastic. Even had my first ever helicopter flight
[20:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> No appreciable freq. drift since you asked Leo.
[20:00] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: cool
[20:00] <eroomde> i'm from just north of goodwood
[20:00] <ibanezmatt13> I strongly recomend going to it if you get the chance
[20:00] <daveake> LeoBodnar, Are you trying to get this one even closer to me than the last one? :p
[20:00] <eroomde> small village in the downs
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: cool. You should definitely go
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> Get the screwdriver out daveake :) I know you are bored. It's become scheduled flight past :)
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> ibanezmatt13, did you see Richard Noble and the Bloodhound there
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> at least they wrote on Facebook that they will be represented there
[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> Err, not sure what that is but I imagine it was there
[20:02] Nick change: danielsaul_alt -> danielsaul
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> THanks Geoff-G8DHE
[20:02] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: i have been!
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> ibanezmatt13, the 1000 mph car
[20:03] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right, good isn't it?
[20:03] <LeoBodnar> my receiver is still warming up so I see some drift
[20:03] <ibanezmatt13> Lunar_Lander: I'm not quite s
[20:03] <ibanezmatt13> sure*
[20:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> I track a beacon in another VFO window as a reference
[20:03] <ibanezmatt13> We won complimentary tickets for today otherwise we wouldn't have been going. The ticket prices are incredible
[20:04] <eroomde> if you heard someone loud and posh talking about 'sarnce' and 'engernairing' then that was him
[20:04] <ibanezmatt13> lol, many people spoke like that
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13> They had a £5 million yacht for sale and somebody was being serious about buying it!
[20:05] <G0TDJ_Steve> B5 is departing from the prediction somewhat
[20:05] <eroomde> occupation hazard at goodwood
[20:05] <Maxell_> Can someone take a screenshot of a very weak DomEX16 waterfall? I have no idea what to look for
[20:05] <eroomde> prediction has departed from reality a while ago
[20:06] <LeoBodnar> I think it has slightly heavier payload than I thought, about 15g due to solar panel and extra sensors/cables.
[20:06] <G0TDJ_Steve> Maxell_: It's like a stream of dots
[20:06] <LeoBodnar> You often receive it before you hear it.
[20:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> Looks like a spiral staircase when its weak
[20:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not that weak here http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-4/DominoEX16%20signals.JPG
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> Reckon it's worth getting a breakout which does temp, pressure and humidity that communicates over I2C, OR, use individual temp sensor, humidity sensor and pressure sensor as analog inputs to be read consecutively?
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[20:11] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13: Hi.
[20:11] <ibanezmatt13> Evening :)
[20:11] <mattbrejza> depends whether you want somethnihg that will just work, or whether you want to get a bit more involved
[20:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> There you go a weak signal http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-5/weak_domex16.JPG
[20:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> I see a VERY weak trace on my waterfall in FLDigi but nowhere near strong enough to decode. It's intermittent at the moment.
[20:12] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13: I'm going to be building a tracker with a beaglebone black. The GPIO library is incredibly similar to the Rpi so I might need your help at some point.
[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: Sure :)
[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> I am an expert... :\
[20:13] <Willdude123> How's non school life?
[20:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> Just noticed a drift of about 30Hz low in the last minute
[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> marvellous
[20:13] <Willdude123> Got a job yet?
[20:13] <Willdude123> that's what she said.
[20:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> Has the prediction thing completely failed?
[20:13] <Upu> I turned it off
[20:13] <Upu> data was days out of date
[20:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> OH OK Tony
[20:13] <Upu> and NOAA's servers aren't forthcoming with new data at this time
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: sorting my Granddad's photos out for him. Aside from that, just waiting for college :)
[20:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> Roger that
[20:14] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13: Digitizing them?
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> basically
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[20:15] <LeoBodnar> Thanks Geoff-G8DHE
[20:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh carrier went ?
[20:15] <Upu> where did line 828 go ?
[20:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> No morse
[20:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> and 829
[20:15] <Upu> 829 was there
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[20:16] <Willdude123> Hello people/
[20:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah yes after the rubbish
[20:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> YAY! My first decode :D
[20:16] <Willdude123> Upu: Why aren't NOAA's servers up to date
[20:16] <LeoBodnar> \o/ G0TDJ_Steve
[20:17] <Upu> they are will
[20:17] <Upu> but the data set for the world is 19Gb
[20:17] <Upu> and its updated 4 times a day
[20:17] <Upu> so we request a section of it every time a prediction is run
[20:17] <Upu> however NOAA's servers aren't supplying this at the moment
[20:17] <LeoBodnar> I had all the lines RX OK Geoff-G8DHE
[20:17] <Upu> DanielRichma is working using the full data set
[20:18] Nick change: Maxell_ -> Maxell
[20:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> It's still a little weak LeoBodnar but it's getting there.
[20:18] <LeoBodnar> No - 828 confirm !
[20:18] <LeoBodnar> I.e. I confirm that 828 is missing
[20:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> Odd - carrier went expected to hear morse, but nothing no change in noise levels and beacon stayed on ...wierd
[20:19] <Upu> there is a pressure differential now
[20:20] <LeoBodnar> There was a massive voltage dip around 828.
[20:20] <LeoBodnar> Bus undervolt ?!
[20:20] <Upu> switching between solar and primary ?
[20:21] <LeoBodnar> I wonder of oxygent tanks are OK?
[20:21] <Upu> 404 Oxygen tanks not found
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[20:21] <Willdude123> Upu: Ah right.
[20:21] <Willdude123> Do you know why? You emailed them?
[20:22] <LeoBodnar> just give 'em a little stir, er....
[20:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> Lots of QSB on the sig LeoBodnar Probably just grazing over the hill.
[20:22] <arko> tell me this isn't a government operation
[20:22] <LeoBodnar> Roger that
[20:22] <daveake> Roger Fred
[20:22] <Willdude123> Ack
[20:22] <Willdude123> Hi daveake
[20:23] <Willdude123> Beaglebone black should arrive tomorrow.
[20:23] <Willdude123> daveake: Is it better in your experience to connect the NTX2 to a serial port or to IO pins?
[20:24] <Laurenceb_> oh nice
[20:24] <Laurenceb_> pressure sensors
[20:24] <daveake> I think you can answer that yourself
[20:24] <Laurenceb_> this looks epic
[20:24] <daveake> If you have a serial port spare, use it.
[20:24] <Upu> pictures Leo ?
[20:24] <Upu> it looks even cooler tbh Laurenceb :) Looks like a min satellite
[20:24] <Laurenceb_> Leo you're epic XD
[20:25] <Laurenceb_> it has panels?
[20:25] <Upu> single panel
[20:25] <Laurenceb_> niiiiiiiiiceeee
[20:25] <Upu> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-5/
[20:25] <Laurenceb_> all this data is retreivable via habhub right?
[20:25] <Laurenceb_> ill have to have a play in gnuplot
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[20:26] <eroomde> unusually genuine enthusiasm for lb
[20:26] <Laurenceb_> heh
[20:26] <Upu> lol
[20:27] <Laurenceb_> i am rather nihalistic
[20:27] <mfa298> Willdude123: if you were after trying to get more cheap bits there's a radio rally at reading on sunday http://www.mcmichaelrally.org.uk/
[20:27] <Upu> oh wait not even using a chip antenna
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[20:27] <Upu> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-5/Pages/3.html
[20:27] <eroomde> yes, i'm not sure that's a good thing though :)
[20:27] <Laurenceb_> *nihilistic
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[20:28] <Laurenceb_> wait wtf
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> whip for gps?!
[20:28] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: it did do some wierd at the beginning
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> well if it works :P
[20:28] <eroomde> failed to track the ascent for a bit
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[20:28] <Willdude123> mfa298: Nah
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> maybe some interference
[20:28] <Willdude123> Wouldn't want to put too much strain on my granddad.
[20:28] <eroomde> suspect leo is only just getting away with it :)
[20:29] <eroomde> that said the ublox does give you snr stats for each sv
[20:29] <Laurenceb_> id suspect the out of band rejection would be poor
[20:29] <Upu> Having tried that I agree
[20:29] <Willdude123> Can't wait for the Beaglebone
[20:29] <Laurenceb_> so what are the pressure units in?
[20:29] <LeoBodnar> Chip antennas betrayed me Upu :)
[20:29] <Upu> in what way ?
[20:29] <Laurenceb_> superpressure seem exceptionally low?
[20:29] <eroomde> did they?
[20:29] <Willdude123> We used raspberry pi GPIOs in school today, it was really cool.
[20:29] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: there's only like 1g of free lift in the thing
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> ah
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> so what are the pressure units?
[20:30] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: via arko
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> KPa ?
[20:30] <eroomde> http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/dsc_3074_1.jpg?itok=e48xC5G2
[20:30] <eroomde> 3d printed injectors
[20:30] <LeoBodnar> My calculations show super-pressure differential at thermal balance at this altitude = 1.2kPa
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[20:31] <LeoBodnar> Lunar_Lander: kPa
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[20:31] <fsphil> seems to be coming back down
[20:31] <eroomde> that's plausible within the accuracy of the sensors probably
[20:32] <LeoBodnar> Sorry, Laurenceb : kPa
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> no problem
[20:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> B-5 External pressure along flight path http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/display/1373574697-08505-
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[20:33] <Laurenceb_> RAGEEE
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> firefox just spewed junk all over ram again
[20:34] <LeoBodnar> Ooh! Nice pictures
[20:34] <Willdude123> Laurenceb_: Calm down.
[20:35] <LeoBodnar> I need calibrated sensors for this
[20:35] <eroomde> indeed
[20:35] <eroomde> an absolute and a differential would probably be an improvement too
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[20:36] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[20:36] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: 3d printed plastic injectors??
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> dont they melt?
[20:37] <LeoBodnar> All I want to see is how much in/out temperatures and pressures diverge after the sunrise. Then I will be a happy man. French can keep the balloon.
[20:37] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: metal
[20:37] <arko> lol
[20:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> B-5 Sats along path http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/display/1373575006-08834-
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> oh
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> nice
[20:37] <eroomde> you can 3d print metal nowadays
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> yeah i know :P
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> too much time talking to reprap n00bs
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> i need to return to the right mindset
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: you know you could do this on the ground
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[20:39] <LeoBodnar> Oh, nice! Geoff-G8DHE could you please make 5 and below some bright colours? 6+ sats means power regime is very benevolent.
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[20:40] <Laurence2> LeoBodnar: you know you could test this on the ground
[20:40] Nick change: Laurence2 -> Laurenceb_
[20:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Possibly, let me see its done via a remote site! above with right title http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/display/1373575135-08949-
[20:41] <LeoBodnar> Yes, I know Laurenceb_
[20:41] <LeoBodnar> SOmething for the future....
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> i keep meaning to do it
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> but then life happens
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> i could use an automated blood pressure cuff
[20:42] <Laurenceb_> with custom firmware
[20:42] <eroomde> to monitor you when on IRC?
[20:42] <Laurenceb_> lolling
[20:42] <Laurenceb_> to inflate the mylar balloon and look at the behaviour
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[20:44] <LeoBodnar> Ooh, mobile tracker has sunset zones! http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/ nice!
[20:46] <LeoBodnar> Settings -> Daylight overlay -> On
[20:46] <arko> handy
[20:47] <Laurenceb_> nice
[20:47] <Laurenceb_> im going to use this on my desktop :P
[20:47] <Laurenceb_> like the data graph
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[20:48] <Laurenceb_> http://imall.iteadstudio.com/electronic-components/sensor/im130619001.html
[20:48] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> so only about 700Pa higher inside the balloon
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> BMP085?
[20:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK Sats more clearly shown by colour http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/display/1373575771-09758-
[20:51] <mattbrejza> is 10.5GHz a ISM band? (20dBm)
[20:51] <LeoBodnar> Cheers!
[20:51] <mattbrejza> it seems to be in thte us anyway
[20:53] <Laurenceb_> looks like theres a little altitude drop
[20:54] <Laurenceb_> corresponding with sunset
[20:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> And this time its below 5 Sats is Bright above is green and good http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/display/1373576009-10038-
[20:56] <Laurenceb_> i just thought
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> hi PE2G
[20:57] <Laurenceb_> the superpressure is a good indicator of impending catastrophic descent
[20:57] <PE2G> Hi Lunar_Lander
[20:57] <Laurenceb_> if we lose superpressure we're screwed
[20:57] <Laurenceb_> due to gas loss/condensation
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> PE2G, won't fly this month to have more time to prepare
[20:58] <Laurenceb_> the balloon is very cold, which is bad, but the ambient is below the dew point, so it should be ok atm
[20:58] <KT5TK_QRL> Interesting relation: B-5 Pressure difference (Pballoon - Poutside) over altitude: http://postimg.org/image/fjs1p9m2z/
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[20:58] <PE2G> OK, thanks for letting me know.
[20:59] <Laurenceb_> *silence as everyone starts playing with gnuplot*
[20:59] <PE2G> Lunar_Lander: When do you expect to fly?
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> ah not known yet
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> august, september maybe
[21:00] <PE2G> OK
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> have to discuss with my professor
[21:00] <M0CJM_Neil> Going to look outside to see if I can see it
[21:00] <daveake> I tried but failed
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> lol
[21:01] <daveake> Even with a camera with a long lens
[21:01] <Laurenceb_> its a getting dark
[21:01] <LeoBodnar> KT5TK_QRL: the sensors are not calibrated or aligned with each other but the divergence is quite pronounced
[21:01] <daveake> Sure but a reflection was possible
[21:02] <PE2G> Lunar_Lander: Do you know of any other upcoming flights in Germany?
[21:02] <M0CJM_Neil> Cant see anything :-)
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> nothing that I know of right now, sorry
[21:03] <PE2G> OK
[21:03] <PE2G> Lunar_Lander: I'll watch the NOTAMs
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> good idea
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> we will fly a sub-payload on a balloon near Berlin in early August
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> but that will be more interesting for the Polish listeners I think :)
[21:05] <PE2G> Lunar_Lander: Yes very likely :)
[21:06] <PE2G> Lunar_Lander: And I need easterly winds
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> first have to repair the transmission circuit
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> it worked, but only with a shift of 85 Hz
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> the resistors are OK as I found out today, so I made a mistake connecting it
[21:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> A litle more drift low about 60Hz since last report
[21:08] <M0CJM_Neil> Its directly to the north of me now!
[21:08] <LeoBodnar> What was that jump, was it him? http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-5/Flight1.png
[21:08] <arko> woah neat http://www.planetary.org/blogs/guest-blogs/2013/20130606-programmable-mars-watch.html
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> hi arko
[21:10] <arko> yo
[21:10] <M0CJM_Neil> LeoBodnar Maybe you need to add a mode-s transmitter on next flight :-)
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[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> arko, I am lowering my head due to the crap I have to see on german TV
[21:12] <LeoBodnar> Mode-C will do as well :) I think TCAS picks it up.
[21:12] <fsphil> I was disappointed when I found AstroTV, and quickly realised it wasn't Astronomy
[21:12] <eroomde> grats arko
[21:12] <arko> :)
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:13] <arko> fsphil: lol
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:14] <fsphil> how can there be entire tv stations dedicated to telling lies
[21:14] <fsphil> oh wait, Fox News
[21:14] <arko> HAHA
[21:14] <arko> yeah, come to america, thats every channel
[21:14] <fsphil> seriously? I thought that was the only weird one
[21:14] <arko> they are all the same
[21:14] <arko> cnn is better
[21:14] <arko> but not by much
[21:14] <fsphil> yea CNN is the only other one I've seen
[21:14] <arko> i enjoy bbc news at 2am when im driving home
[21:15] <arko> only way to get news
[21:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> Solid Greens all the way now
[21:15] <M0CJM_Neil> Maybe the green glow from Aldermaston is luring it that way :-)
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[21:17] <M0CJM_Neil> Nowt seen here :-(
[21:17] <LeoBodnar> Cool G0TDJ_Steve !
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> arko, there is a show where mothers accompany their adult sons (for example: one of the men is 34) to help them find a wife
[21:18] Action: SpeedEvil doesn't need help.
[21:18] Action: SpeedEvil has a large bottle of chloroform.
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> I diddn't realise it was chloroform till I googled it - bought it for bonding polycarbonate
[21:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> LeoBodnar, Nicer view yet ! http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-5/flight%20path%20and%20sats.jpg
[21:19] <PE2G> Lunar_Lander: I just came across a NOTAM for a launch from Hilchenbach tomorrow:
[21:19] <PE2G> http://goo.gl/maps/aAt4b
[21:19] Action: Geoff-G8DHE Now must stop playing
[21:19] <arko> Lunar_Lander: thats all scripted
[21:20] <arko> dont worry
[21:20] <arko> american tv is 1000% worse
[21:20] <arko> reason why i dont watch tv
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> ah I occasionally watch Gordon ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares US on youtube
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> PE2G, cool thanks
[21:21] <LeoBodnar> Great images Geoff-G8DHE, the last one is very good, lots of data without overcomplicating the visuals
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[21:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> When flight has finished I'll put it up as a KMZ so its interactive as well
[21:23] <M0CJM_Neil> Actually getting an S3 signal now from B5 :-)
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[21:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> M0CJM_Neil: No sig here but nice greens :D
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[21:26] <M0CJM_Neil> G0TDJ_Steve Cool, the S3 has gone now sadly and back to an S1 but its only a few miles up the road from me. Looks like we could have an all nighter here again!
[21:26] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yep, another classic Leo flight :D
[21:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> interestingly, Sig is falling for me too
[21:27] <M0CJM_Neil> How do I get the path prediction up on spacenear.us?
[21:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> Upu switched it off
[21:28] <M0CJM_Neil> ahh ok thought it was something i had to do
[21:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL... THanks Upu :D I think he just switched it on again
[21:28] <M0CJM_Neil> its on now
[21:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> Upu: Is the data OK now?
[21:29] <M0CJM_Neil> I love the way AWE is just a grey patch on the spacenear.us map :-)
[21:29] <iain_G4SGX> Do wish I had another 50 meters of 213 coax, not sitting on the lawn all night. There are NO radio shops for at least 100 miles from me alas.
[21:30] <LeoBodnar> Upu: is this based on the latest NOAA data?
[21:30] <LeoBodnar> It's not going across France then?
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[21:34] <G0TDJ_Steve> Looks like it's veering back to it's original course.
[21:34] <G0TDJ_Steve> Looks like it's going to go around Neil
[21:36] <M0CJM_Neil> G0TDJ_Steve As you say Steve, its just dodging itself round me
[21:37] <Willdude123> Hi
[21:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Will
[21:37] <Willdude123> Hi M0JCM_Neil
[21:38] <M0CJM_Neil> Hi Willdude123
[21:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh another 80Hz low drift since last report
[21:38] <Willdude123> Hi G0TDJ_Steve
[21:38] <Willdude123> Neil, ever done a hab flight?
[21:39] <M0CJM_Neil> Willdude123 Nope, never done one or been at a launch
[21:39] <Upu> oh
[21:40] <Upu> yes sorry I left it updating
[21:40] <LeoBodnar> Oh, really? I did not notice? It would be great to save compressed waterfall image somehow over a course of a few hours
[21:40] <Upu> this is current prediciton
[21:40] <M0CJM_Neil> LeoBodnar Should have fitted a nice flashing LED to it, I amy have been ad
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[21:40] <M0CJM_Neil> able to see it then
[21:40] <Willdude123> Heh
[21:40] <Willdude123> Do you wish to?
[21:40] <LeoBodnar> Give me some time! :) This one is too heavy already.
[21:40] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'd like to do that when I finally get a launch
[21:40] <M0CJM_Neil> Willdude123 Yeah I hope to oneday
[21:40] <jcoxon> oooo this is an exciting flight
[21:40] <jcoxon> hey LeoBodnar
[21:41] <jcoxon> awesome with the balloon sensors
[21:41] <LeoBodnar> Hey jcoxon I knew you'd be pleased
[21:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its been a slow drift whilst I was making a drink, yes the w/f files get a bit big! also needs a referece in case Rx drifts as well so that doubles it :-(
[21:41] <mfa298> Willdude123: if you've got a bit of spare time now you should get the radio out and see if you can hear anything. at that distance you should be able to get it
[21:41] <LeoBodnar> I have also made the chart here http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/projects:microballoons:foil-floaters-leo.png?id=projects%3Amicroballoons%3Adata
[21:42] <PE2G> Lunar_Lander: http://www.hilchenbach.de/standard/page.sys/details/eintrag_id=820/content_id=4371/726.htm
[21:42] <jcoxon> yeah i'm still getting my head around that
[21:42] <Willdude123> Why don't you build a tracker? I have absolutely no hope to launch one, but I still am building a tracker from bits upu gave me together with a beaglebone black.
[21:42] <Willdude123> mfa, I'm in bed.
[21:42] <Upu> www.habduino.org coming soon..
[21:43] <Willdude123> As on should be asleep.
[21:43] <arko> nice Upu :)
[21:43] <Willdude123> Nice is that your shield upu?
[21:43] <Upu> yes
[21:43] <M0CJM_Neil> I have a raspberry pi not being used! Maybe I need to lean how to use it
[21:43] <M0CJM_Neil> learn
[21:43] <mattbrejza> i know youre only keeping with convention but the name makes me sad :P
[21:44] <Upu> well open to suggestions :)
[21:44] <Willdude123> Upu, can I beta test it ? :p
[21:44] <Upu> I am beta testing it
[21:44] <Upu> the new revision is somewhere in china atm
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[21:44] <Upu> besides the board is only half of it
[21:44] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, so what have we seen with the pressure between external and balloon?
[21:44] <LeoBodnar> Luddituino
[21:45] <LeoBodnar> I need one
[21:45] <Willdude123> You selling it with an arduino?
[21:45] <LeoBodnar> Sensors are not calibrated or aligned with each other so you have to account for this.
[21:45] <mattbrejza> rfm22b too unreliable?
[21:45] <Willdude123> Takes half the fun out of it though.
[21:46] <Upu> yep mattbrejza
[21:46] <Upu> LMT2 is nice as its very stable
[21:46] <LeoBodnar> They were dropping in sync and then diff pressure shot up to almost 2kPa and the dropped to what it is now. AFter the sunset
[21:46] <mattbrejza> could use a TXCO + TX IC, but i guess thats also untested
[21:46] <Upu> yeah thats rev 3
[21:46] <Upu> :)
[21:46] <LeoBodnar> I love LMT2 build
[21:46] <mattbrejza> (i suggest cc1101) :P
[21:47] <Willdude123> Becuase it's a challenge to build it yourself and it's boring if it just works.
[21:47] <mattbrejza> also matching is now much easier
[21:47] <Upu> I also have a board coming back which isn't too disimilar to Leo's boards but AVR based with a SI chip and TXCO on it
[21:47] <mattbrejza> for domex?
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[21:47] <Upu> no
[21:47] <Upu> thats the third board which is being made in china :)
[21:47] <mattbrejza> although toy could
[21:47] <mattbrejza> *you
[21:47] <Upu> LMT2 with a DAC on it
[21:48] <M0CJM_Neil> Right I need sleep, night all! I will leave the PC & Radio on decoding
[21:48] <Upu> the SI chip with the 30mhz crystal can't do the spacing needed for Domino
[21:48] <G0TDJ_Steve> 73 M0CJM_Neil De G0TDJ
[21:48] <mattbrejza> can you get a 30mhz crystal with a vc input?
[21:48] <mattbrejza> and use that to make the small shifts?
[21:48] <Upu> well thats phase 2
[21:48] <M0CJM_Neil> Cheers G0TDJ_Steve :-)
[21:48] <Upu> and yes Golledge can make them
[21:49] <Upu> phase 1 is see if the basic circuit works
[21:49] <Willdude123> Upu, why did you decide to make it, because it's boring when it 'just works'
[21:49] <Upu> go look at the mailing list Willdude123
[21:49] <mattbrejza> hmm farnell have no 30mhz tcxos
[21:49] <Upu> that last mail from Ugne D.
[21:49] <mattbrejza> what a weird frequency
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> PE2G thanks for the linkj
[21:49] <Upu> that is exactly why I made it
[21:49] <g6uim> if any of you plan a balloon that comes my way, 434.500 is not a good frequency, lots of noise.
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> -j
[21:50] <G0TDJ_Steve> g6uim: Where are you?
[21:50] <Willdude123> Upu, sorry didn't see that.
[21:50] <Willdude123> It reallyt does suck beimg 13.
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[21:51] <LeoBodnar> Wouldn't it be cool if there was some sort of distributed listeners network that maps QRM across the contry(ies). Could be done with just regular dongles
[21:51] <G0TDJ_Steve> 13... Blimey. I can't even remember when I was 13
[21:51] <craag_> This is cool, could only hear it in the audio when I tuned across it, but decodes 100%.
[21:51] <Gadget-Mac> LeoBodnar: Go for it ;)
[21:51] <Upu> oh congrats Willdude123
[21:51] <Gadget-Mac> Evening all.
[21:51] <Upu> hi Gadget-Mac
[21:51] <LeoBodnar> Haha if I go for it will never happen
[21:51] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hiya
[21:52] <g6uim> @G0TDJ down in the straw chewing part of the country, SW England
[21:52] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oi see :-)
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[21:52] <Willdude123> Upu, still it's exciting for school people to make trackers.
[21:53] <Willdude123> It just seems like it takes hakf the fun away.
[21:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> Muh iq data record 0.5GB holds 60 seconds of data :-(
[21:53] <mattbrejza> Upu: SD card logging, presssure sensors, onewire header, stepup converters planned for your sheild?
[21:53] <x-f> Upu, at least some assembly required?
[21:53] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: Case ordered, just need to source some RF cable and N sockets
[21:53] <Upu> possibly mattbrejza I truly home someone decides to enchance it with those
[21:54] <Upu> it has a step up on it
[21:54] <Upu> note the board in the back ground of the image
[21:54] <Upu> thats me testing a step up
[21:54] <Upu> does about 11 hours from 2 x AA
[21:54] <Upu> possibly x-f
[21:54] <Upu> all open source
[21:54] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: Out of interest which stepup ?
[21:54] <mfa298> Willdude123: people can still make their own if they want to - in the same way that people will use an AVR and required comonents rather than using an arduino
[21:54] <mattbrejza> tps61200
[21:54] <mattbrejza> (stepup)
[21:55] <Gadget-Mac> Spooky, just looking at making a board for those :)
[21:55] <mattbrejza> yea, out of all the stepups they work down to thte lowest voltage at decent output current
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[21:56] <PE2G> Lunar_Lander: No info to be found on the tracker, alas
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:56] <Upu> TPS62100
[21:56] <Upu> well 62102
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> just general stuff
[21:56] <Upu> there is the slot for a HX1 on the bottom of it btw and it can do simultanious RTTY and APRS where your local laws permit
[21:57] <Willdude123> Upu, how much might this cost?
[21:57] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: Good choice
[21:57] <mattbrejza> £70 at a guess
[21:57] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, did a graph of teh pressure data
[21:58] <mattbrejza> (no aprs)
[21:58] <LeoBodnar> And?!
[21:58] <jcoxon> interesting
[21:58] <jcoxon> definitely balloon pressure increases above 5500
[21:58] <KT5TK_QRL> Well, just the differential pressure
[21:59] <Gadget-Mac> Upu, 1.8v ?
[21:59] <LeoBodnar> Well it is expected
[21:59] <Upu> Willdude123 not sure yet need to price it up
[21:59] <Upu> Gadget-Mac no its an Arduino runs at 5V
[22:00] <LeoBodnar> But I did not expect it to be so low now. I'd expect about 1.2kPa
[22:00] <S_Mark> My boards arrived today! https://twitter.com/stratodean/status/355231893794463745/photo/1
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[22:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Done it again carrier gone
[22:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> just odd beeps
[22:01] <Gadget-Mac> S_Mark: Ah, you've hit the large xtal problem ;)
[22:01] <gonzo___> pipping a bit
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[22:01] <S_Mark> what do you mean Gadget-Mac
[22:01] <G0TDJ_Steve> Signal lost!
[22:01] <daveake> er gone!
[22:01] <daveake> just some blips
[22:02] <Gadget-Mac> S_Mark: the xtal for the AVR is a bit on the large side.
[22:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> LeoBodnar: Telemetry lost.
[22:02] <Willdude123> Upu pm
[22:03] <S_Mark> Ah!
[22:03] <S_Mark> Yes, I could have put the smaller one on had I realised
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[22:03] <S_Mark> still a revision 1 board but was fun to do
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[22:03] <S_Mark> got almost all components through the post now
[22:03] <Gadget-Mac> Always are
[22:03] <LeoBodnar> Ah, died then! :)
[22:04] <LeoBodnar> I'll have more XD
[22:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> THat's such a shame LeoBodnar
[22:04] <CHRISG7OGX> beeping every second ish
[22:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> Well its beeping quite happily nothing else was on the channel, and now a series of beeps
[22:04] <LeoBodnar> Hold on, I need to look at my code...
[22:04] <Babs> Just logged on - how far/high did it get? (I don't have enough signal and no Internet installed yet in the new house)
[22:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> its back
[22:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> WOAH! BAck!
[22:04] <arko> noo!!!
[22:05] <arko> it's alive!!
[22:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> and gone
[22:05] <CHRISG7OGX> ssssh
[22:05] <arko> wow all in like 10 seconds
[22:05] <G0TDJ_Steve> Briefly
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[22:05] <craag_> night mode?
[22:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> got one complete green record and another
[22:05] <G0TDJ_Steve> And again
[22:05] <CHRISG7OGX> battery save???
[22:05] <mattbrejza> its on just very low power
[22:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> no beeps this time
[22:05] <Laurenceb_> sounds like speed?
[22:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> and back
[22:05] <Laurenceb_> *sleep
[22:06] <LeoBodnar> Night mode [headslap]
[22:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> its playing games with us ;-)
[22:06] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-)
[22:06] <craag_> my decoder only gets lock halfway through the sentence :(
[22:06] <Laurenceb_> running silabs tx all the time is very current hungry
[22:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> one record at a time
[22:06] <LeoBodnar> 22:00 to 4:00 is night mode
[22:06] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: 5v , is it a shield ?
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[22:06] <Laurenceb_> looks like stable superpressure
[22:06] <Laurenceb_> very interesting
[22:07] <arko> oh wow
[22:07] <Laurenceb_> what kind of battery has it got?
[22:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> so what is Night mode ?
[22:07] <daveake> back
[22:07] <daveake> oh I'm quick :p
[22:08] <arko> does it still transmit sensor data in night mode?
[22:08] <G0TDJ_Steve> LeoBodnar: What's the Night MOde behavior?
[22:08] <LeoBodnar> Just sleeping for a few minutes and sending a few sentences now and then. I need to look at the code. Sorry for the heart attacks I might have caused
[22:08] <arko> lol
[22:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> makes sense why run the battery down
[22:08] <G0TDJ_Steve> Maybe it should be Day Mode too
[22:08] <CHRISG7OGX> good idea even for daytime
[22:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> Snap CHRISG7OGX
[22:09] <CHRISG7OGX> great minds think alike or..
[22:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> :D
[22:09] <CHRISG7OGX> fools never differ!
[22:09] <LeoBodnar> Lol
[22:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah.... So I've been told - MANY times
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[22:09] <CHRISG7OGX> i may stay up and give it a wave
[22:09] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: Just found the pic in scrollback, very nice
[22:10] <Upu> which pic ?
[22:10] <LeoBodnar> To be hones TXing continuously is such a waste but usually it wasn't the battery that ended up most float attempts.
[22:10] <CHRISG7OGX> even the beeps must cost the battery something
[22:10] <LeoBodnar> honest
[22:10] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: the one on habduino.org
[22:11] <Upu> oh yeah thanks
[22:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> LeoBodnar,Is there any significance to the occasional higher freq. beep ?
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> Geoff-G8DHE: It gets scared of the dark.
[22:11] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: Any reason why you didn't include the avr on the board ?
[22:12] <Willdude123> Wow puberty really has hit now I'm 13, I found a metal band that I kinda like.
[22:12] <Upu> Gadget-Mac adds quite a bit of stuff I need to solder
[22:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> LeoBodnar: I reckon it should be a Morse beacon instead of pips :D
[22:13] <jcoxon> hehe the debate of the night time mode
[22:13] <LeoBodnar> I think it switches LPF off when pulling the frequency for correction so it will just go for corrected frequency. I can't remember now :-\
[22:13] <LeoBodnar> During the night that is
[22:13] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: well, 1 avr + xtal ? But anyhow looks cool.
[22:13] <Willdude123> Someone help me
[22:13] <CHRISG7OGX> does AFC still work in DL Fldigi in this mode?
[22:13] <Upu> Gadget-Mac how do you program it with USB ? :)
[22:14] <Upu> no Chris_M6CSV
[22:14] <Willdude123> I didn't even think I liked metal.
[22:14] <Upu> grr too many Chris's
[22:14] <Upu> CHRISG7OGX
[22:14] <CHRISG7OGX> i fear that i may have been first!
[22:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> For once I'm glad to be a Steve :-)
[22:14] <LeoBodnar> I didn't expect it to even make it to the Night Mode! XD
[22:14] <Chris_M6CSV> I asked the same on the last flight Upu! :)
[22:15] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: FTDI cable tbh, or use a 32u4
[22:15] <CHRISG7OGX> leobodnar congrats
[22:15] <Upu> makes it less accesible Gadget-Mac :)
[22:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, well done LeoBodnar I love the thought you've put into the code.
[22:15] <LeoBodnar> I have swicthed Morse code off for this flight, you'll hear it again! G0TDJ_Steve
[22:15] <Gadget-Mac> Save a couple of grams
[22:15] <Upu> sorry its out of my range
[22:15] <Upu> so whats the payload doing atm ?
[22:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> LeoBodnar: Good oh
[22:16] <LazyLeopard> Upu: Having a snooze...
[22:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> CHRISG7OGX, No AFC doesn't work on DOMex16 but the freq. stability is much nicer on LeoBodnar design.
[22:16] <CHRISG7OGX> snoring..
[22:16] <Upu> oh cool not transmitting ?
[22:16] <LeoBodnar> Well, just sleeps between transmissions.
[22:17] <CHRISG7OGX> geoff g8dhe thanks yes rock solid.. just thinking about when i leave shack
[22:17] <Upu> how long does it sleep for ?
[22:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its droping the number of sats seen in this mode as well http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-5/index.php?ind=3
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> good night
[22:18] <LeoBodnar> gn Lunar_Lander
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[22:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good Night LL
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[22:19] <LeoBodnar> About 4 minutes? sleep then TX
[22:19] <Upu> lovely
[22:20] <CHRISG7OGX> version 2.0 of Simon Brown's SDR Console is planned for release 26 July
[22:20] <LeoBodnar> It switches GPS off and then restarts it. Might bite me by the backside. UBLOXes are unpredictable.
[22:20] <LeoBodnar> What'd you say Upu ?
[22:21] <LeoBodnar> Wakes GPS up rather than restarts
[22:21] <Upu> well
[22:21] <LeoBodnar> =hot restart
[22:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> Warm
[22:21] <Upu> wire the battery direct to vabbt
[22:21] <Upu> do a warm start
[22:21] <Upu> never done it personally
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[22:21] <KT5TK_QRL> That's what I do in my Pecan code as well (restarting the MAX6)
[22:21] <Upu> just makes sure your code deals with whatever crap the module spurts out till it gets alock
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[22:21] <LeoBodnar> TCXO might drift off. Is 1PPS still working during off mode?
[22:22] <Upu> Evening KT5TK
[22:22] <LeoBodnar> Hi KT5TK_QRL
[22:22] <KT5TK_QRL> Hi Upu
[22:23] <KT5TK_QRL> Just having up a screen with B-5 stuff and observing during my work
[22:23] <joeman> Hello. Am I glad to find an IRC channel for hab stuff.
[22:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> joeman, Welcome
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[22:26] <nigelvh> Afternoon KT5TK_QRL, I'm making progress with packet decode. Though haven't done any work with the 4464 yet.
[22:26] <LeoBodnar> 7 sats after wakeup?
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[22:26] <joeman> Thanks.
[22:26] <KT5TK_QRL> Hi nigelnv. Sounds good.
[22:27] <HixPad> Any news on the school launch?
[22:27] <joeman> One builds a Hab payload and then one thinks of many ways to improve it!
[22:28] <joeman> Anyone by any chance in AU Cairns?
[22:28] <HixPad> joeman: Darkside is au
[22:28] <HixPad> But not cairns
[22:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-5/flight%20path%20and%20sats.jpg
[22:29] Action: joeman nods
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[22:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> Looks like B-5 is after me now he has passed daveake
[22:31] <joeman> Thanks Hixpad
[22:32] <joeman> Yeah...Ive come to the realisation of how much work is involved and thinkning giving someone else a hand might be the way to go for a bit
[22:32] <joeman> pick up a bit of knowledge and be a willing helpful hand.
[22:33] <joeman> leederville.net/hab is small blog on what ive been doing
[22:34] <joeman> but it is clear there is so much more...and giving someone else a hand would be good. Distance is an issue in AU
[22:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> Coming up on West Sussex LeoBodnar, better get the Visa out for stamping please ;-)
[22:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> Right guys, gotta go. Flagging here :D Great Flight Leo. See you all tomorrow!
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> Can we maybe... negotiate, gov? :)
[22:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh allright then, but the French won't be as easy!
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[22:39] <Laurenceb_> what kind of battery does it have?
[22:39] <LeoBodnar> Guts found that kitchen extractor hood makes a great GP for car 70cm/2m antenna
[22:39] <LeoBodnar> See you tomorrow G0TDJ_Steve
[22:40] <G0TDJ_Steve> Roger 73!#
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[22:40] <LeoBodnar> 1x AAA
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[22:40] <craag_> +solar?
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[22:41] <Laurenceb_> ah, so it doesnt actually recharge
[22:41] <LeoBodnar> It's mostly for looks. I didn't have time to use it to its full capacity
[22:42] <LeoBodnar> Can't have all at once!
[22:42] <craag_> How have you got it connected, diode or or just in parallel?
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[22:43] <LeoBodnar> diode
[22:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> West Sussex
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[22:43] <craag_> kl
[22:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> So far its 160Km covered
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[22:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> If anyone else is using Google Earth then try loading this KMZ file http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-5/index.php?ind=0
[22:46] <joeman> anyone tested cutdown with wire around throat of balloon?
[22:47] <joeman> nichrome wire
[22:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> Sounds like balloon suicide!
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[22:51] Nick change: reflejo -> Fz
[22:51] Nick change: Fz -> fz
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[22:56] <LeoBodnar> Geoff-G8DHE: Frequency correction is most probably off in night mode so it is all up to how good TCXO temperaure compensation is. I expect it to drift off.
[22:56] <LeoBodnar> I think GPS reference output is disabled when it is snoozing (it must be)
[22:57] <LeoBodnar> It will be pulled back where it was in the morning if there are no bugs in the sofwtare
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[22:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes its currently 200Hz since I started logging lower in freq. most in the last hour
[22:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh just found I can give GPSVisualizer the irl of habitat and it will download direct from the db! Nice
[22:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> *URL
[22:59] <LeoBodnar> SOmething had to be sacrificed for the sake of longer runtime...
[23:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Thta's understandable
[23:00] <LeoBodnar> oh, are they some custom scripts that you are using?
[23:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Sort of go to this panel http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/map_input?form=googleearth
[23:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> and you can load in the metadata you want it to process and it outputs a KMZ for overlaying in GE or GM whatever
[23:01] <LeoBodnar> Oh, looks ipressive!
[23:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> I use it a lot for tracking video and images http://www.g8dhe.net/blog/content/static/Bongo_Travels_2009.php
[23:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> and then post on my own site
[23:03] <LeoBodnar> Saved for later perusal! XD
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[23:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> it will also take dynamic data but not used that so far ... could be impressive add-on to Habitat!
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[23:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> Warning the data files can get rather large to load it times ;-)
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[23:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh yes looks like B-5 is gong to inspect my aerials!
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[23:10] <LeoBodnar> Haha you are the last one to see it off Geoff!
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[23:11] <LeoBodnar> How cool
[23:11] <g0lfp> Hi Geoff, it's been a while! Are you still getting anything from B-5 ?
[23:12] <LeoBodnar> g0lfp: it's in the night mode, 4 mins beeps and 2min TX
[23:12] <LeoBodnar> Conserving power
[23:13] <g0lfp> Nothing in the waterfall here, not to worry.. I'm just simply not hearing it.
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[23:14] <LeoBodnar> It's TXing now
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[23:14] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> Ah did it split again ?
[23:14] <LeoBodnar> Stopped for beeps
[23:14] <fz> Does anyone know where to buy weather balloons in USA? Looking for a 800g balloon for my first launch
[23:14] <LeoBodnar> Yes, something is happening
[23:15] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> Ooh it just lept down another 100Hz in that off period
[23:15] <LeoBodnar> Vbatt dropped. Maybe short circuit of some sort
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[23:21] <LeoBodnar> Off to bed! Good night all!
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[23:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> Cheers
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[23:28] <KT5TK_QRL> PecanPico4 is in the works: http://kt5tk.wordpress.com
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[23:29] <arko> KT5TK_QRL: nice!
[23:29] <arko> launch it so that flys to los angeles
[23:29] <DL7AD> good evening
[23:32] <joeman> geoff: yep a cutdown mechanism....as requires by CASA regs
[23:33] <KT5TK_QRL> Hi DL7AD
[23:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> joeman, Ah we don't have that problem over here!
[23:33] <DL7AD> is there anybody else than just this single station in france?
[23:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> F5APQ and F5CT currently displayed ?
[23:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> But neither seem to be watching for B-5 at present
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[23:46] <mfa298> with the shorter transmissions it's harder to find it.
[23:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its pretty stable
[23:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> dropped about 200Hz since about 21:00
[23:47] <craag_> Lost it in the noise here.
[23:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> The beeps this time seem to have moved up however so just waiting
[23:47] <mfa298> I keep trying to get my antenna in a suitable place to get a good signal but by the time I've seen it's started transmitting and tried moving the antenna it's gone again
[23:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> for next cycle before leaving it for the night here we go
[23:48] <craag_> Probably antisocial to bang around in the loft putting my colinear up at this time of night.
[23:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes its drifted back up 100Hz
[23:48] <mfa298> I do have a building in the way though which doesn't help
[23:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> I'm getting deep fades now its directly overhead! seroiusly overhead!
[23:49] <joeman> geoff: lucky
[23:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> -70dBm
[23:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> normally track at around -120dBm
[23:50] <joeman> Though I like the idea of complete control over flight. knowing.
[23:50] <mfa298> needs a flashing beacon and you'd have a good chance of spotting it
[23:50] <craag_> fs_phil was going to have a go at that I think
[23:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> well actually leo is the guy to put lights on it! If you look at his business site
[23:51] <craag_> With some 20W leds pulsing up into the latex balloon.
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> A pretty modest LED goes a long way at night
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> A nanowatt a square meter is quite visible.
[23:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=90&products_id=213
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> From a point source
[23:52] <mfa298> next we need a UFO shaped balloon to put some sort of beacon into.
[23:52] <craag_> haha
[23:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> Right just going to put my Twizzle arm out and have a look at it!
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> Is a Twizzle Arm like a Pimp Hand?
[23:54] <Darkside> twizzle mah dizzle, shiggle?
[23:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Twizzle
[23:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nope can't feel it out there ;-)
[23:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> Drifting higher again another 100Hz
[00:00] --- Fri Jul 12 2013