highaltitude.log.20130710

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[06:21] <eroomde> meta
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[07:37] <Willdude123> M6KZT: Ping
[07:38] <Willdude123> Posted?
[07:38] <Willdude123> How much do you want me to send?
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[07:48] <G0TDJ_Steve> Morning Guys
[07:51] <HixWork> good moaning
[07:51] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-)
[07:51] <G0TDJ_Steve> I notice a couple of new'uns on tracker. I know about Monty. Is Leo sending B5 up soon?
[07:57] <HixWork> B5 is in a weird location
[07:57] <HixWork> my bad, it panned to M0NTY
[07:58] <HixWork> Assume Leo is testing, he normally launches from S'stone
[07:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK
[07:58] <HixWork> Id Monty1 due soon? Fairly near me
[07:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> Unfortunately, I'm busy this weekend. Not sure how much tracking I can do.
[07:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> Chris Stubbs is the one to ask about Monty
[08:00] <G0TDJ_Steve> I know where Monty is going up from LOL... Can't remember the date
[08:00] <HixWork> Ahh is this the chaaaaaridy launch from churchill? Assume Monty is a rebranded NSE
[08:01] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, the charity one. Not sre about the re-brand
[08:01] <G0TDJ_Steve> Can you get to this: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/Cl4Vpuc40Gw
[08:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> Sunday week... I don't think I have anything going on that day
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[08:05] <HixWork> ahh, alles klar
[08:05] <HixWork> morning Babs__
[08:09] <Babs__> Morning HIxWork - have you got your pcb IMU up and running? House moves and wedding have meant that my HAB-related activity has been zero for the last month
[08:09] <Babs__> I haven't even had chance to mess around with my wireless arduino shields
[08:09] <Babs__> poor the babs
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[08:16] <HixWork> I have the boards, but am awaiting the stencil so I dont muller them
[08:17] <HixWork> Have you had the big day yet?
[08:17] <Babs__> ? Do you have to stencil in the tracks yourself?
[08:17] <HixWork> solder stencil
[08:17] <Babs__> (I have no clue how these things are done, i thought the only options were component populated or component unpopulated
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[08:18] <HixWork> heh
[08:18] <Ugi> morning
[08:19] <HixWork> Think of t-shirt screenprinting. Then s/tshirt/pcb & s/paint/solderpaste
[08:19] <HixWork> morning Ugi
[08:20] <Babs__> just looked it up. very cool.
[08:20] <Ugi> how's your stencil coming along?
[08:21] <Babs__> i SMTd some components without the assistance (or in fact knowledge of) a solder stencil. Much easier your way.
[08:21] <HixWork> ugi - hopefully its coming
[08:22] <fsphil> B5 is our last, best hope for float
[08:22] <HixWork> Babs__, yes, have done that too, but some of these parts are tiny
[08:24] <Babs__> i had the big SMT components and it was difficult enough. WIth this I guess you just do the stencil thang, place the components on top and then pop it in an oven at gas mark 5?
[08:25] <Babs__> I mean a carefully temperature controlled reflow oven
[08:25] <HixWork> I was thinking of slipping it into one of those apple pies McDonalds used to sell
[08:26] <HixWork> should reflow it
[08:27] <Babs__> You would melt the pcb at those temperatures. I have still have mouth scars from a McDonalds pie burn
[08:27] <HixWork> I think it is a western rite of passage
[08:29] <fsphil> it sets your level of expectation
[08:29] <fsphil> "Oh great, McDonalds again. But at least this time I'm not going to be permenantly scarred"
[08:31] <HixWork> true true - well physically. Maybe not mentally or nutritionally
[08:31] <fsphil> both good points
[08:33] <HixWork> Babs__, the ruler didn't scan too well, though you get the idea of the size from the 0805 cap pads
[08:33] <HixWork> http://i.imgur.com/Suqg6fS.jpg?1
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[08:34] <HixWork> hmm
[08:34] Action: HixWork remembers Babs__ already has an IMU with those very components
[08:34] <Babs__> you guys are far too obsessed with making things small. If you were only like me and were comfortable sending things up the size of a small car you would be fine.
[08:35] <daveake> HAB in a reasonably sized car
[08:35] <Babs__> arf
[08:35] <fsphil> would make the chase a lot easier
[08:35] <Babs__> we don't need a tracker on this one, we've got a visual on it the whole way
[08:35] <daveake> Fly a Google self-guided car
[08:36] <Babs__> "its over there, by that small moon"
[08:36] <daveake> s/car/tank/
[08:36] <Babs__> "thats no moon"
[08:36] <HixWork> trust me, if i could have got hold of some larger components or that board, i would
[08:38] <G0TDJ_Steve> "I've got a bad feeling about this"
[08:39] <HixWork> oh Babs__ re stabilotron. I was thinking of a system to replace the swivel system t'other week. I figured on using a system similar to a RC Heli swashplate to isolate rotation and also reduce pitch and roll
[08:43] <HixWork> something similar to this http://goo.gl/q9AK5
[08:58] <HixWork> has anyone used a USB Microscope for pcb assembly / inspection. something like this http://goo.gl/eCa1L
[08:59] <fsphil> good for inspection, but the lag on the screen makes it annoying for soldering
[08:59] <fsphil> the one I have needs to get too close too, can't get the iron near it
[08:59] <fsphil> that one looks better
[09:02] <Babs__> that swash plate is basically a gimbal in another name - but if it is pre fabbed and aluminium, its probably easier to implement than my system
[09:08] <HixWork> I was thinking it could be used in addition, just to lessen the load on the IMU based stabilotron
[09:08] <HixWork> like a hardware filter
[09:08] <HixWork> fsphil, reckon I'll get one, sure its fun for other stuff too
[09:11] <Babs__> agreed - however, bear in mind that you need a degree of friction on the rotational aspect of the HAB (you need something to rotate against to enable the camera to be pointed in the correct direction)
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[09:14] <Ferran> hello to all
[09:16] <UpuWork> morning Ferran
[09:16] <Ferran> hello UpuWork
[09:18] <HixWork> Hi Ferran
[09:19] <Ferran> hello HixWork
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[09:45] <Ferran> bye bye
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[10:39] <eroomde> re earlier, yes the problem with rotating a camera within a hab is that the rest of the hab will just want to twist the other way
[10:39] <eroomde> it's tricksie
[10:40] <eroomde> my sol is to move the whole hab payload
[10:40] <eroomde> at least in yaw
[10:45] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
[10:46] <fsphil> I'd still like to try using a mirror for aiming. the part you need to move is very light - won't push the payload around much
[10:48] <fsphil> won't help with the field of view rotating though
[10:48] <eroomde> as in to adjust what the camera can see?
[10:48] <fsphil> yea
[10:48] <eroomde> interesting
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[10:51] <infinity__> Hi Guys, just to give you a heads up my school intend to launch on Friday about 10.30 - 11.00am from Boston Spa. Onboard several science projects and usual cameras. Would appreciate some help with tracking. 434.075.10
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[10:53] <fsphil> infinity__: nice. flight docs all setup and tested?
[10:54] <Babs__> eroomde - surely the only thing you need is part of the hab above the rotating pivot, and part below, and a weight differential between top and bottom?
[10:54] <eroomde> i mean for yaw really
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[10:54] <eroomde> gravity sorts out roll and pitch
[10:54] <infinity__> Yep NOTAM done and cameras checked. New batteries purchased as we have had issues in the past! Not looking for records just decent flight and recovery.
[10:54] <Babs__> yes, i mean for yaw
[10:55] <Babs__> you put a low friction pivot above the whole of the payload to limit spin from the parachute / line a la BABS HAB
[10:55] <eroomde> well, you'll still get a rotation on the 'fixed' part in proportional to the ratio of the weights
[10:55] <eroomde> the torque generated by your rotation motor will act equally on both
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[10:55] <Babs__> that limits the general rotation of it to a low amount per the vid/evidence from my flight
[10:56] <Babs__> and then separating the payload into two, as long as there is a weight differential the speed of counterotating will be different from the top part to the bottom part
[10:56] <Babs__> like when a helicopters tail rotor fails
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[10:57] <Babs__> as long as the overall rotation of both upper and lower parts is slow (which it should be if there is a low friction bearing between the whole package and the balloon),
[10:58] <Babs__> tthen the motor between the two counter rotating parts of the payload should be able to keep up
[10:58] <x-f> infinity__, he meant Habitat flight docs - http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/ - are those done and tested for your flight?
[10:58] <eroomde> yes, you're right, but you just have to factor it in is all
[10:59] <eroomde> i.e. moving it 60 degrees won't actually move the camera in space 60 degrees
[10:59] <eroomde> but something less
[10:59] <Babs__> iie it might take 10 rotations of the servo between top and bottom part of the payload to result in the camera turning 360 degrees (if the mass of upper and lower parts is close to the same), but after that it should just require small adjustments
[10:59] <eroomde> and the gyros probably won't help counteract the torque from slow movements
[10:59] <Babs__> ahh, we got to the same point
[11:00] <Babs__> or you just make the camera part as light as possible and put as much of the weight as possible in the top half
[11:00] <eroomde> the thing is then what do you do if you've built up a load of momentum from all that turning :)
[11:00] <Babs__> trust it to settle down
[11:00] <eroomde> indeed
[11:00] <eroomde> i have a sneeky plan for that too
[11:00] <eroomde> but i need to test it
[11:00] <eroomde> i am building a hab btw
[11:01] <eroomde> for the first time in about 4 years
[11:01] <eroomde> all your stabilotron chat with hix has inspired me
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[11:01] <Babs__> we need to sketch some ideas out for this eclipse thang
[11:01] <eroomde> yes
[11:01] <eroomde> well i'm possibly aiming for a trip north for some long exposure northern lights flights
[11:01] <eroomde> soonish
[11:02] <Babs__> i have some very nice funky arduino wireless transmitting kit, servos, a working IMU code (which I then threw away and started again after all of the quarternion chat and still got it working)
[11:02] <Babs__> and it is just sitting there because i moved house and am getting married
[11:02] <eroomde> careless
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[11:03] <Babs__> it is like having the Technical Lego Car Chassis and not being able to open the box
[11:03] <HixWork> HEH
[11:03] <eroomde> i'm shamelessly nicking your 3d-printed truss joints thing
[11:03] <HixWork> sorry
[11:03] <eroomde> it completely solves the problem
[11:03] <Babs__> i have a tip having had some experience on the 3d-printed truss joints thing
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[11:04] <Babs__> don't rely on the strength of the polymer to have integrity on landing (albeit in the flight it worked really well)
[11:04] <eroomde> i was going to do landing legs proper
[11:05] <eroomde> with some form of deliberate plastic deformation to absorb the impact
[11:05] <eroomde> however i am also pretty handy at designing decent parachute systems :)
[11:05] <Babs__> instead, use the polymer to not only hold the carbon fibre in place, but also have a series of holes in it to insert small 1mm carbon fibre reinforcing rods to give it strength
[11:06] <Babs__> exactly like holding carbon fibres in a matrix of resin, only you are in turn holding carbon rods in a matrix of 3-d polymer
[11:06] <eroomde> ah interesting
[11:06] <eroomde> ok
[11:06] <eroomde> http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5524/9081579872_6f205fea97_b.jpg
[11:06] <eroomde> that's spider on the left
[11:06] <eroomde> which i went to visit (and did a bit of soldering for!) in princeton
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[11:07] <Babs__> this is the best example of where i got to in terms of reinforcing rods. you could drive a car over it. http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8462025127/in/set-72157632733154985
[11:07] <eroomde> but that's all mega 5-axis CNC'd large lumps of ali
[11:07] <Babs__> almost
[11:07] <eroomde> nice
[11:07] <eroomde> so 3dprintuk have changed their pricing
[11:07] <eroomde> no longer on volume of parts
[11:07] <eroomde> but volume of enclosing volume
[11:08] <Babs__> This, on the other hand, did not fare so well in the landing http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8465744003/in/set-72157632733154985
[11:08] <HixWork> eroomde, is that pic from your arko trip
[11:08] <eroomde> that was when i was on the east coast
[11:08] <Babs__> I'm going to have to do some rapid fire gluing in prep for the conf
[11:09] <Babs__> I need to try 3dprintuk's new SLS thing to see whether the polymer is stronger
[11:09] <Babs__> or whether it degrades as rapidly. the polymer perishes pretty quickly
[11:09] <Babs__> like a tired party balloon
[11:10] <HixWork> I was thinking about the trusses. I'm sure if you used a std set of angles you could get some pretty simple cnc 6082 alu bits machined up for not too much cost
[11:10] <Babs__> do you have a sketch of "i was going to do landing legs proper" eroomde?
[11:10] <eroomde> on a beer mat at home
[11:10] <HixWork> Babs__, SLS is normally fairly brittle in my experience
[11:10] <Babs__> is it going to look like the Eagle lander?
[11:11] <Babs__> That would be cool
[11:11] <Babs__> bit of pivoting action and some elastic to cushion
[11:11] <HixWork> car airbag :)
[11:11] <Babs__> although i imagine you have access to funky springs and do not have to resort to raiding your fiance's sewing box for raw materials
[11:11] <eroomde> sort of but plastic deformation
[11:12] <eroomde> which dissipates energy
[11:12] <eroomde> rather than elastic
[11:12] <eroomde> which just sores it
[11:12] <eroomde> stores*
[11:12] <HixWork> a simple heli landing leg arrangement should suffice?
[11:12] <HixWork> out of dural
[11:12] <eroomde> no metal
[11:12] <eroomde> f*cks radio
[11:12] <HixWork> hmm
[11:13] <HixWork> wouldnt all the carbon too though
[11:13] <Babs__> maximum hab points if you made it really elastic so it jumped back up to trackable height with an RTTY signal saying "hello boys, I'm here"
[11:13] <HixWork> HABTigger
[11:13] <eroomde> HixWork: yes but i can keep that above the natenna
[11:13] <Babs__> NASA could do with us on board as concept people
[11:13] <eroomde> legs will be fibreglass rods
[11:14] <HixWork> ah ok
[11:14] <Babs__> i need to see this eroomde
[11:14] <eroomde> i need a cad package
[11:14] <Babs__> I'm ready to hand over the truss baton
[11:14] <Babs__> google sketchup
[11:14] <HixWork> CAD to be sorted at conf
[11:14] <eroomde> i don't *need* one but i can make pretties with one
[11:14] <HixWork> you NEED it
[11:15] <Babs__> i thought it was pants and troublesome when I started, but then we had a longer term affair and developed quite a relationship together
[11:15] <eroomde> also my reaction wheel will be damn sexy
[11:15] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Will it make an ominous humming noise?
[11:15] <eroomde> have sketches of that too
[11:15] <eroomde> fsphil: i need a star camera
[11:15] <eroomde> for the arcsecond pointing
[11:16] <Babs__> the people on google doing reaction wheels appear to also have second careers as chefs http://sci.esa.int/science-e-media/img/a6/ReactionWheel410.jpg
[11:16] <eroomde> lol
[11:16] <eroomde> for this it's all about getting the friction right down
[11:17] <Babs__> but what is the aim of this eroomde?
[11:17] <Babs__> every project needs an aim
[11:17] <eroomde> initially northn lights
[11:17] <eroomde> but then 'hobble'
[11:17] <eroomde> the poor man's space telescope
[11:18] <Babs__> if you could replicate the conditions on that apex video of babshab that would definitely be stable enough
[11:18] <eroomde> i think you really need like 100x better
[11:18] <Babs__> only thing is, i have no idea whether i was lucky with the weather conditions or whether it would always perform like that
[11:18] Action: SpeedEvil sighs at the condition of Kepler.
[11:18] <eroomde> hundreths of a degree
[11:18] <Babs__> bolds
[11:18] <Babs__> bold
[11:18] <eroomde> 1 degree per sec rotation is actually enormous
[11:18] <eroomde> for long exposure photography
[11:19] <Babs__> a 30 sec exposure is all you need right?
[11:19] <eroomde> more like 3 for nothern lights
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: I've seen some interesting CCDs that let you clock the pixels left/right/up/down - which seemed interesting.
[11:19] <eroomde> depending on iso performance of cams
[11:19] <Babs__> whadddabout
[11:19] <Babs__> my levels of stability, and then simply using image stacking ?
[11:19] <Babs__> that DSLR can fire off 5 photos a second
[11:20] <eroomde> works to a point, but SNR gets in the way eventually
[11:20] <Babs__> pop off 20 or so then process on the ground
[11:20] <SpeedEvil> Readout noise is unfortunately big.
[11:20] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Is the iCalendar being updated at present ? I notice nothing is showing as scheduled ?
[11:20] <eroomde> you need to collect a certain number of photons from weak things like northn lights to even be seen above the sensor noise
[11:21] <eroomde> there's a min exposure time basically
[11:21] <fsphil> stacking would help
[11:21] <Babs__> stacking also sounds cool
[11:21] <eroomde> however i would be looking at tracking movmement and doing motion deconvolution
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> Stacking doesn't really help.
[11:21] <HixWork> what about some form of off axis guider as used in astroimaging?
[11:21] <Babs__> cool sounding words have to help. I can't beleive they don't
[11:21] <mattbrejza> Geoff-G8DHE_: its empty because there are no flight docs for the future
[11:21] <fsphil> doesn't help for heat noise
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: The problem is that you have - say a 10 photoelectron readout noise.
[11:21] <fsphil> not heat noise -- hot spots
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: This means that you have about a 50 photon noise.
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[11:22] <Babs__> If only we could get lots of helium up there to cool the CCD down.
[11:22] <Babs__> oh.
[11:22] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Sp infinity has forgotten his ?
[11:22] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: 1000 frames only get you 30-fold improvement in SNR - so with 50 photon noise, you're still at about 2 photons of signal.
[11:23] <eroomde> need a star cam :)
[11:23] <LazyLeopard> Dark frames deal with hot spots.
[11:23] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: If, however, you can stretch the frame time out tenfold, and stack a hundred - you get a _LOT_ more SNR
[11:24] <HixWork> is there any mileage in adopting a similar strategy to guiding with scopes for astroimaging?
[11:25] <eroomde> they do star tracking don't they?
[11:25] <eroomde> keep a star in the crosshairs
[11:25] <HixWork> yes
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> HixWork: Sure.
[11:25] <eroomde> that's basically what i'm proposing
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> HixWork: but for 'just' tenths of a degree - gyros will work fine
[11:25] <eroomde> but the tracking has to be good
[11:26] <SpeedEvil> It would be interesting if Kepler would release _all_ thier specs.
[11:27] <HixWork> it seems a farsimpler method than reaction wheels
[11:27] <SpeedEvil> To see if there was any possible way to reprogram it to get science data that's been overlooked.
[11:27] <SpeedEvil> HixWork: err - sensing is different from positioning.
[11:28] <HixWork> course
[11:28] <LazyLeopard> Astrophotographers tend to have their scopes rather solidly mounted, so the corrections they usually have to make are very small...
[11:28] <eroomde> what seems simpler than reaction wheels?
[11:28] <LazyLeopard> Kepler, I expect, has some rather serious guiding kit to compensate for not being quite so solidly mounted...
[11:29] <fsphil> SpeedEvil: yea, you can't beat a longer exposure
[11:29] <eroomde> agreed
[11:29] <eroomde> LazyLeopard: but we can make serious guiding kit too
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> LazyLeopard: It's unfortunately decided to be comedic clown-walk guiding kit.
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> recently.
[11:29] <eroomde> and try and make up the rest in post-processing
[11:29] <Laurenceb> you talking about kepler?
[11:29] <HixWork> The Nikon D4 has some pretty outrageous ISO performance
[11:29] Action: Laurenceb too lazy to scrollback
[11:29] <eroomde> that would be nice
[11:29] <eroomde> not sure i have the monies for that
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: not really, I mentioned it as a pity.
[11:30] <Laurenceb> ah
[11:30] <eroomde> also heavy, tho i imagine we'd do some major surgery
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: eroomde is wondering about pointing his thingy at stuff.
[11:30] <Laurenceb> i was talking to someone who was working on some cool signal processing
[11:30] <Laurenceb> for kepler data
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: The asteroseismology is _fascinating_
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Did you see the kepler science conference?
[11:30] <Laurenceb> basically if you have one planet occluding the star, look at small fluctuations in its orbit
[11:30] <Laurenceb> an fit to a multiple planet model
[11:31] <Laurenceb> nope
[11:31] <Laurenceb> pointy thing for eclipse?
[11:31] <eroomde> eventually
[11:31] <eroomde> tho interested in doing something sooner
[11:31] <HixWork> eroomde, I believe the D800 has the same image processor and sensor
[11:31] <Laurenceb> isn't it a solved problem?
[11:31] <Laurenceb> the gimbal mounts
[11:31] <LazyLeopard> Nikon tend to do fairly agressive black clipping, which makes life difficult for astrophotographers, apparently.
[11:32] <Laurenceb> go to rcgroups XD
[11:32] <HixWork> if you could pretty much guarantee recovery, rent
[11:32] <Laurenceb> wouldn't you want canon with chdk?
[11:32] <eroomde> you're trolling
[11:32] <Laurenceb> canon have a 200gram camera with 14bit raw iirc
[11:32] <Laurenceb> im always trolling
[11:32] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Highly recommended - http://kepler.nasa.gov/Science/ForScientists/keplerconference/2011keplerscicon1/
[11:32] <Laurenceb> thanks
[11:32] <HixWork> LazyLeopard, i understand canon have easier IR filter removal too, but afaik the low light sensitivity is not a patch on Nikons
[11:32] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I watched all of it - it's very acessible to the layman - as it's a new field.
[11:33] <Laurenceb> nice
[11:33] <Laurenceb> im no photographer, but id hazard a guess you want raw mode with a lot of bits
[11:33] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: you just need to understand what spherical harmonics are, and that astronomers call everything heavier than helium a metal, and you're good.
[11:33] <Laurenceb> knew that already :P
[11:33] <eroomde> Laurenceb: it's the noise performance i care about most
[11:33] <eroomde> the highest usable ISO setting
[11:33] <Laurenceb> yeah
[11:34] <Laurenceb> id be worried about high dynamic range
[11:34] <Laurenceb> well - more complex than that
[11:34] <HixWork> I was offered the loan of a D3 for HAB, may be able to call it in eroomde especially oop north for aurora, he's a polar explorer
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[11:34] <eroomde> nice
[11:34] <eroomde> well i want 3 cams for this
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[11:34] <Laurenceb> I suspect youd need weird nonlinear remappings to get the best results
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: My favourite quote of the conference 'The first thing we discovered was that the sun is not a sun-like star'
[11:34] <eroomde> each with at least a 120 degree FoV
[11:34] <eroomde> for a 360 panorama
[11:35] <HixWork> 14mm on a full frame sensor should do that
[11:35] <HixWork> damn 104
[11:35] <LazyLeopard> Black-clipping, however, takes the fine detail out of astrophotographs.
[11:35] <HixWork> 10mm then
[11:35] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Fisheye your not looking for massive resolution
[11:35] <Laurenceb> eroomde: clearly you need a Hasselblad hd4
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: - as Kepler was designed to detect planets around sun-like stars. The sun was used as a reference brightness source - as it's the only one we had good brightness data on. It turns ou tthat the sun flickers a lot less than most sun-like stars. This does _bad_ things to the SNR when you're trying to pick up little fluctuations.
[11:36] <Laurenceb> interesting, i see
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: And is the reason the 'extended mission' was needed to get to baseline (pick up earth-like worlds in earth-like-orbits around sun-like stars
[11:36] <eroomde> hmm that might be too optimistic
[11:36] <eroomde> might have to go for 4 cams
[11:36] <Laurenceb> http://www.hasselblad.co.uk/products/h-system/h4d-50.aspx
[11:36] <Laurenceb> 16bit adc O_o
[11:37] <Laurenceb> or for mortals: http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/G1_X
[11:38] <Laurenceb> which would also stand a chance of fitting on a gimbal, and run chdk
[11:38] <Laurenceb> for extra marks run PTP over the usb and SSDV the photos
[11:40] <Laurenceb> http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_PowerShot_G1_X/high_ISO_noise.shtml
[11:40] <eroomde> that's ludicrously bad iso performance
[11:41] <Laurenceb> from the G1X too?
[11:41] <eroomde> oh wait i was looking at the g12
[11:41] <eroomde> !
[11:41] <eroomde> g1 not bad
[11:41] <Laurenceb> yeah i thought G1 was best for eclipse when i looked at this
[11:42] <Laurenceb> i was looking for lots of bits+ raw + PTP + cheap + lightweight
[11:42] Nick change: KingJ_ -> KingJ
[11:42] <Laurenceb> it seemed the best
[11:43] <Laurenceb> http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/110884344056?var=gv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y
[11:44] <Laurenceb> there is an eclipse in the Faroes in 2015
[11:45] <Laurenceb> dunno how you'd get back the payload.. guess you could try from iceland
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[12:04] <Laurenceb> meanwhile on irc
[12:04] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MeIKla-TIkM
[12:04] <Laurenceb> ESCs from ##stm32
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[12:39] <eroomde> HixWork: remind me was the tuteledge in SW or CA?
[12:47] <HixWork> both if you so deire to be "schooled" in them
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[13:05] <eroomde> would love dearly
[13:06] <eroomde> sw would be the more compatible schooling for othe tthings
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[13:31] <LazyLeopard> Oops.
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[13:35] <mfa298> ...and we return
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[14:20] <HixWork> what's all this *net *split bussiness all about?
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[14:22] <fsphil> the irc network's servers becoming disconnected from eachother
[14:22] <fsphil> effectivly splits the network into 2 or more parts
[14:22] <HixWork> ahh
[14:23] <fsphil> someone moron is probably ddos'ing the network
[14:23] <UpuWork> thats generally it
[14:26] <Babs__> Hey guys - sorry, was away ddos'ing the network. Did anything happen whilst I was away?
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[14:29] <eroomde> Babs__: no
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[14:31] <HixWork> heh Babs__
[14:33] <Babs__> eroomde - further theoretical and never-will-see-the-light-of-practical-application-on the two part HAB counterrotating problem - if the servos are fast responding enough it should actually improve the sensitivity of the whole thing
[14:34] <eroomde> because
[14:34] <Babs__> on the basis that 1 degree rotation of the servo could be <<1 degree of actual camera pointy rotation
[14:34] <Babs__> if the masses of the top and bottom bit are similar
[14:34] <eroomde> yes indeed
[14:34] <Babs__> i've got until 2017 to work it out in practice
[14:34] <eroomde> :)
[14:34] <Babs__> which coincidentally is approximately the time it will take for me to pay off my wedding
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[14:35] <ibanezmatt13> Good afternoon
[14:35] <Sven___> Hi there
[14:36] <ibanezmatt13> I'm currently sat on a pretty quick train south bound on my own. Very good service
[14:36] <Babs__> In other news, and slightly off topic, I have 120mb virgin fibre being installed. Anyone else have it?
[14:36] <Babs__> virgin being "Virgin" rather than "never before used"
[14:37] <ibanezmatt13> Lol
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[14:37] <Babs__> it looks tres rapido. Although in reality all it will be used for is the missus downloading the latest episode of masterchef quicker than usual
[14:37] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> I'm happy with BT FTTC via Plusnet!
[14:37] <eroomde> nope
[14:37] <eroomde> have 50mBit virgin
[14:38] <eroomde> which is fast enough for housemate and i to independently watch HD streams
[14:38] <eroomde> so is basically fast enough
[14:39] <Babs__> eroomde - nice use of proper mBit units
[14:39] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/2827849426
[14:39] <Babs__> and not calling me out for using a unit of storage for a statement of speed
[14:39] <Babs__> you are a gent
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[14:43] <eroomde> i am trying to fire an engine
[14:43] <eroomde> poo off
[14:43] <eroomde> zeromq bug talking to the datalogger
[14:43] <eroomde> new laptop
[14:43] <eroomde> etc blah
[14:44] <Babs__> is it the air breather?
[14:46] <eroomde> nope
[14:46] <eroomde> methane calibration run
[14:46] <eroomde> no fart jokes
[14:46] <eroomde> just want to dial in the mass flow meters
[14:47] <Laurenceb> fart smell is not actually methane
[14:48] <Laurenceb> contrary to popular belief
[14:49] <Babs__> natural gas smell is not the smell of natural gas either
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[14:49] <eroomde> it doesn't smell of anything
[14:49] <eroomde> i know
[14:50] o2o (~o@186.195.176.2) joined #highaltitude.
[14:50] <Babs__> the stuff that comes out of your hob when the piezo fails
[14:50] <nigelvh> I'm not certain, but methylmercaptain (sp?) comes to mind.
[14:54] <HixWork> didn't natural gas used to smell, when it was sourced from a certain area?
[14:55] <HixWork> ooh, Froome has gone off the ramp. That'll put paid to any work they expected for this afternoon
[14:55] <eroomde> ?
[14:55] <HixWork> TourDe France. It like sport and french geography all in one
[14:55] <Babs__> Tony Martin was riding a 57 this afternoon. Phenomenal.
[14:55] <HixWork> armchair sightseeing en France
[14:56] <HixWork> avg speeds in the ITT are mindblowing
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[14:57] <Babs__> HixWork - http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8716896559/in/set-72157594252810501 - if you are a cyclist, it is top fun
[14:58] <HixWork> have you been there Babs__ as in cycled it
[14:58] <Babs__> That is me in No. 2 position
[14:59] cyclops (57dac545@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.218.197.69) joined #highaltitude.
[15:00] <cyclops> hi
[15:00] <HixWork> heh the look of pain :)
[15:00] <cyclops> can anyone help me?
[15:00] <HixWork> what an ironic name to join at this exact moment :)
[15:00] <HixWork> hi cyclops
[15:00] <cyclops> Im looking foward to launch a raspberry pi
[15:00] <HixWork> not me then :)
[15:00] <cyclops> as a high school project
[15:01] <cyclops> so here I am
[15:01] <HixWork> why Pi?
[15:01] <cyclops> It is what some colleages recomend me
[15:01] <HixWork> generally [from my limited knowledge] it isn't really the best suited to HAB
[15:01] <cyclops> I assume that it has more processing power
[15:01] <cyclops> USB
[15:02] <HixWork> large, relatively heavy, power hungry
[15:02] <cyclops> Well I also looked at the examples here:
[15:02] <fsphil> if you need a USB device then you might need to. otherwise, an Arduino would work well
[15:02] <HixWork> most people use AVR processors, with great success.
[15:02] <cyclops> http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=873
[15:03] <eroomde> he has a lot to answer for
[15:03] <HixWork> heh
[15:03] <HixWork> what do you need USB for cyclops ?
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[15:03] <cyclops> I've been looking at connecting a USB 3g Dongle
[15:03] <Babs__> That Tardis only worked though because the Tardis has more space on the inside than looks like from the outside
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[15:03] <fsphil> oh hi ChanServ
[15:03] <cyclops> to get the landing info
[15:04] <Babs__> Any Dr Who fan could work that one out
[15:04] <fsphil> any Doctor Who fan would be obliged to point out that it's Doctor Who, not Dr Who ;)
[15:04] <Babs__> Jelly baby fsphil?
[15:04] Nick change: nigelvh -> Guest17761
[15:04] <fsphil> fantastic
[15:04] <daveake> and it's TARDIS not Tardis :)
[15:04] <fsphil> oh crap I missed that one
[15:05] Action: fsphil hands in his notice
[15:05] <Babs__> Was there any aspect of my sentence that was correct?
[15:05] <eroomde> cyclops: we usually prefer tracking the flight throughout with a low power radio
[15:05] <eroomde> than using gsm/3g
[15:05] <daveake> eroomde> he has a lot to answer for
[15:05] <eroomde> though the latter can work
[15:05] <daveake> This is very true
[15:05] <cyclops> I was planing on using both
[15:05] <eroomde> ah ok
[15:05] <eroomde> well that's fair enough
[15:05] <HixWork> whoa Froome 1sec under Martin
[15:06] <cyclops> BTW i've been looking at this receiver for the radio signal
[15:06] <HixWork> cyclops, you can use aq gsm board on a UART rather than USB
[15:06] <cyclops> http://www.funcubedongle.com
[15:06] <eroomde> yep there are a few people who use them
[15:06] <daveake> yes a good choice
[15:06] <eroomde> they work ok
[15:07] <HixWork> they are highly rated, especially with Darksides HABamp from UPu's store
[15:07] <cyclops> Thats about 130¬
[15:07] <eroomde> i think you probably want to put some kind of filter infront
[15:07] <cyclops> And the other receivers about 400¬
[15:07] <eroomde> eg the one HixWorks suggested
[15:07] <eroomde> cyclops: on their own they're not as good as a normal amateur radio receiver
[15:07] <eroomde> but with the some filtering they're very usable
[15:08] <cyclops> HixWork no idea about that, I am searching for the easiest to set up
[15:08] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> Have you looked thru the Wiki ?
[15:08] <cyclops> Yep
[15:08] <eroomde> cyclops: easiest involved more money
[15:08] <eroomde> involves*
[15:08] <HixWork> cyclops, look here http://goo.gl/zXZVY
[15:09] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> the straight TV dongles and HABAMP work very wwll as well
[15:09] <cyclops> I see
[15:09] <HixWork> i paid ~€10 for a dongle and it is fine
[15:09] <cyclops> Well
[15:10] <HixWork> admitedly not as good as the fcd but good enough to track
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[15:10] <eroomde> yes, anything on rtl-sdr + habamp (or similar) should work fine for you
[15:10] <cyclops> Lets start by the begining as i plan the launch in August
[15:10] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/HABAMP_and_DONGLE/
[15:10] <cyclops> So for the main flight computer
[15:10] <HixWork> where do you plan to laiunch cyclops ?
[15:10] <cyclops> I live in spain
[15:11] <HixWork> ah, ok
[15:11] <cyclops> It will be in the south of spain
[15:11] <cyclops> No sea nearby
[15:11] <Babs__> trackuino?
[15:11] <HixWork> probably a better chance of not ditching in the sea there :)
[15:11] <cyclops> And no high trees
[15:11] <HixWork> see that daveake ^
[15:11] <Babs__> I built one, found it was illegal to use in the air here (but is legal in Spain), and since then has been a great locator of my living room table
[15:11] <cyclops> And a lot of space
[15:13] <HixWork> cyclops, the easiest route is arduino, NTX2 and uBLox GPS
[15:13] <cyclops> okay
[15:13] <cyclops> Do I need codin skills?
[15:13] <cyclops> *coding
[15:13] <HixWork> you can get a 5V breakout Ublox from Upu and you can wire straight to the NTX2 as long as you don't get too much heat into it
[15:13] <eroomde> yes
[15:14] <eroomde> you need coding skills
[15:14] <HixWork> that's the crunch part to time-limited launches
[15:14] <eroomde> or at least you need to be willing to learn them
[15:14] <cyclops> Im willing to learn
[15:14] <eroomde> then you've come to the right place
[15:15] <cyclops> Babs__ the Trackuino sounds interesting
[15:15] <HixWork> the best thing to get you atarted is this link http://goo.gl/s7MXy
[15:15] <cyclops> but I have to create the pcb and solder all?
[15:16] <Babs__> cyclops - http://www.trackuino.org/ - although no-one uses it here (which is probably a legal thing only, but may mean that it doesn't work as well( legal or not) as the NTX-2 Ublox route
[15:16] <cyclops> and why is it illegal?
[15:16] <Babs__> and I don't see Javier on here either (the guy who designed it) which also might say something. don't know, but it is an alternative for you.
[15:16] <HixWork> if you used an arduino Uno you can just get a plain prototyping shield
[15:17] <HixWork> UK radio laws cyclops
[15:18] <UpuWork> babs there is a Habduino in the wings
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[15:18] <UpuWork> basically trackuino with an NTX2 on it
[15:18] <UpuWork> err LMT2 even
[15:19] <cyclops> Hum
[15:20] <Babs__> UpuWork - interesting...
[15:20] <cyclops> So I should go with an arduino and leave the raspberry
[15:21] <eroomde> tracksuino would probably sort you
[15:21] <eroomde> trackduino*
[15:22] <cyclops> Im looking for the assembly guide
[15:22] <HixWork> I'd say advoid the Pi cyclops
[15:22] <cyclops> for it
[15:22] <cyclops> SO, I want to get sure that
[15:22] <cyclops> *make sure
[15:22] <cyclops> in case radio fails
[15:22] <cyclops> the temp and other sensors data gets logged
[15:23] <HixWork> sd card shield
[15:23] <cyclops> to a micro sd or somethingh like that
[15:23] <eroomde> https://code.google.com/p/trackuino/wiki/TrackuinoShield22
[15:24] <cyclops> I need a custom pcb then?
[15:25] <eroomde> read that link
[15:25] <eroomde> the answer is in it
[15:25] <eroomde> i'm not the expert as i've never used this before
[15:27] <HixWork> cyclops, you could probably use veroboard and the schematic provided
[15:27] <HixWork> or ask #hackvana about making some boards for you - they are very inexpensive
[15:28] <cyclops> Inexpensive is about...?
[15:29] <HixWork> well for a 50mm x 50mm pcb <$20 for 10
[15:29] <eroomde> $19 for 5x 5cmx5xm boards very roughly
[15:29] <eroomde> 10x then*
[15:29] <cyclops> how can i contact him to get a quotation?
[15:30] <HixWork> "/join #hackvana"
[15:30] <HixWork> he is called hackvana there
[15:30] <eroomde> read his guide on hackvana.com about how to ask for quotations
[15:30] <eroomde> it's all explained there
[15:30] <Laurenceb> hackvana: nevermind
[15:31] <HixWork> cyclops, http://tinyurl.com/hvpcbfaq
[15:31] <eroomde> it's difficult for him to give you a quote unless you follow his guide
[15:31] <Laurenceb> or neverbreadboard in his case
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[15:34] <cyclops> lets see then
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[15:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement : www.theregister.co.uk LOHAN Launch
[15:39] UpuWork (~UpuWork@smtp.nevis.co.uk) left irc:
[15:40] <eroomde> yippee falling things
[15:40] <fsphil> I'm glad I'm not too close to this one
[15:40] <mattbrejza> i read the 4th payload as SHITIT
[15:40] <mattbrejza> (initially0
[15:41] <mattbrejza> dw guys, at least it has a fail'safe'
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[15:41] <eroomde> still amazed by that
[15:42] <eroomde> it is much more accurately described as a 'fuck-it mechanism'
[15:42] <eroomde> or leeroy jenkins device
[15:42] Action: Willdude123 facepalms. The local ham clubs newspaper mentions "Blackberry Pie's"
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> haha
[15:42] <eroomde> nice
[15:42] <Willdude123> eroomde: No swearing in the chan.
[15:42] <Willdude123> Please
[15:42] <eroomde> it's ok when i do it
[15:42] <HixWork> ha
[15:43] Amadiro (jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no) got lost in the net-split.
[15:43] <mattbrejza> its a technical word so ok
[15:43] <eroomde> yes look. inverted commas
[15:43] <mattbrejza> like refering to a female dog as a bitch
[15:43] <HixWork> agreed that is an engineering context
[15:43] <Willdude123> But seriously.
[15:43] <Willdude123> Blackberry Pie's
[15:43] <eroomde> I am serious
[15:43] <mattbrejza> or stop cock
[15:43] <Willdude123> That is unforgivable.
[15:43] <eroomde> yes that is funny
[15:43] <eroomde> bless them for trying
[15:43] <Willdude123> And saying I'm an expert in radio beacons on hot air balloons.
[15:44] <HixWork> reamer too
[15:44] <eroomde> you are compared to their readership
[15:44] Action: Willdude123 wants to join craag's club instead.
[15:46] <mattbrejza> is a bit further though
[15:46] <mattbrejza> a by 'a bit', probably 'a lot'
[15:46] <mattbrejza> *and
[15:47] <mfa298> in terms of meetings I'm not sure the Uni club has so much happening of interest. But it a bit better at getting out an operating in interesting locations.
[15:47] <mfa298> (e.g. tracking HAB's in the New Forest)
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[15:51] <Willdude123> Hi Upu
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[15:54] <SpeedEvil> You're kidding me.
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> http://www.russianspaceweb.com/proton_glonass49.html#culprit
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> 'Ensure sensors are bolted on the right way up'.
[15:56] <HixWork> whoaaa
[15:56] <eroomde> yes i saw that
[15:56] <eroomde> staggering
[15:57] <Laurenceb> lolling
[15:57] <Laurenceb> http://science.slashdot.org/story/13/07/10/1438251/upside-down-sensors-caused-proton-m-rocket-crash
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> Also fun 'safety' issue.
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> The engines can't cut off under 30s into flight - to ensure the rocket clears the pad, so the command to shutoff engines at 17s was vetoed.
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> - not that it'd have made significant difference.
[15:59] <Laurenceb> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3958407&cid=44238975
[16:00] <eroomde> I have just added a note in my notebook to my sure i install my gyros the right way up
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> American launchers fly at least three times more long, and kill seven more people on average.
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> haha
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[16:13] <Willdude123> UpuWork: For the NTX2, what resistor values would be needed for 3v3?
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[16:32] <cyclops> hello again
[16:32] <x-f_> hello
[16:32] Nick change: x-f_ -> x-f
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[16:34] <cyclops> Yo finally i decided to use arduino with a HABduino for my project
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[16:47] <eroomde> god irc is in a bad way
[16:47] <eroomde> well, freenode
[16:47] <eroomde> nickserv has died a death
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[16:50] <nigelvh> Yes, things are not pretty..
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[17:37] <G0TDJ_AFK> Hey guys, where would I go to find out how to get a device on the tracker? Haven't looked into that yet.
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[17:37] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[17:39] <x-f> you mean, on the spacenearus map?
[17:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah
[17:39] <SpeedEvil> G0TDJ_Steve: you mean how to setup a payload, or how to broadcast?
[17:39] <fsphil> you just need to setup a payload document on habitat
[17:39] <fsphil> then a flight document
[17:39] <x-f> http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[17:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> If I had a tracker board, how do I test it? Is there a sandbox somewhere?
[17:39] <fsphil> if you make at least the payload doc, it'll appear on spacenear
[17:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ahh right!
[17:39] <fsphil> but please don't test during a real flight :)
[17:40] <G0TDJ_Steve> No, obviously
[17:40] <G0TDJ_Steve> But isn't there a test mode or test page?
[17:40] <fsphil> not yet
[17:40] <G0TDJ_Steve> In develoipment?
[17:40] <fsphil> possibly
[17:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK - Seems essential to me :-)
[17:41] <fsphil> I might have a go
[17:41] <fsphil> it's too hot to do anything else atm
[17:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> I can relate to that. It's only just cooling down here and I have to sort our evening meal out.
[17:41] <x-f> how hot is hot?
[17:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> Sweaty
[17:41] <fsphil> 28c
[17:42] <x-f> lucky you!
[17:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> 24.5deg C here
[17:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> Indoors
[17:42] <fsphil> I'm in a back room, shaded a bit
[17:42] <fsphil> suspect it's a lot hotter outside
[17:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> Thanks for the habitat link guys, better sort the eats out.
[17:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> Catcha later.
[17:42] <fsphil> cya
[17:43] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
[17:46] <Willdude123> Just gonna order my bbb soon.
[17:46] <Willdude123> Wait
[17:46] <Willdude123> Dammnit.
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[18:35] <Willdude123> I need some good books on c programming.
[18:35] <Willdude123> Might head to the library at the weekend.]
[18:38] <Willdude123> Why so few peeps here?
[18:39] <arko> freenode has been having netsplits
[18:40] <arko> Willdude123: http://www.amazon.com/C-Programming-Language-2nd-Edition/dp/0131103628
[18:40] <arko> i liked that one
[18:40] <arko> but
[18:40] <LazyLeopard> yeah, not so much a network as a scattering of un-connected networks...
[18:40] <arko> its not great for learning the lang
[18:40] <arko> its good for reinforcing
[18:40] <Willdude123> Hmm.
[18:40] <arko> in my opinion
[18:40] <arko> others will say otherwise
[18:40] <Willdude123> The library has none of that.
[18:41] <arko> i got the most out of that book after learning the basics of C
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[18:47] <Willdude123> Say wha---?
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[18:59] <Willdude123> Is anyone actually here?
[18:59] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: "Battery: 0.03 V" wat
[18:59] <LeoBodnar> It's testing for the moment
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[19:04] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Toombes "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement : www.theregister.co.uk LOHAN Launch
[19:05] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement : www.theregister.co.uk LOHAN Launch
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[19:40] <Willdude123> With the ntx2 circuit, why are the voltages 2.763v and 2.235v chosen, and what would happen if you used different value resistors, but with R2 and R3 being 10x r1 ?
[19:41] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, the voltages are chosen as their difference sets the shift of your RTTY
[19:41] <chrisstubbs> 2000hz/v I think
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[19:44] <chrisstubbs> cheap lithiums --> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121102732376?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
[19:45] <Willdude123> So any other difference would work?
[19:45] <Willdude123> So I could use the same resistors with 3v3.
[19:45] <Willdude123> ?
[19:45] <Willdude123> chrisstubbs: You got the photos?
[19:46] <chrisstubbs> Errrr, you can work it out, I did, but dont have the result anymore :P
[19:46] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, yeah they are on flickr, let me grab the link
[19:46] <Willdude123> Right.
[19:46] <chrisstubbs> http://www.flickr.com/photos/68579973@N02/sets/72157632670675629/with/9248713725/
[19:47] <mfa298> Willdude123: you'll get a different shift with the same resistors and 3v3.
[19:47] <chrisstubbs> http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:ntx2_divider.jpg
[19:47] <mfa298> if you want to work out the shift you'll get stick the values into the formula on the wiki (didn't you do a spreadsheet to work it out ?_
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[19:50] <Willdude123> mfa298: So yeah I will need to get some different resistors.
[19:51] <mfa298> work out if the voltages are within the allowed values for the ntx2 data pin and what the shift is. As long as you're not over the max voltage or the shift outside of the reciever pass band it should be ok for testing.
[19:51] <mfa298> but a large shift isn't ideal for an actual flight.
[19:52] <mfa298> it's well worth getting a selection pack of resistors from somewhere.
[19:55] <Willdude123> Oh god, to find the right resistors, am I gonna have to derive that?
[19:56] <Willdude123> Wth is wrong here? https://www.dropbox.com/s/4rqhgh7bxui2f0d/Book1%20%281%29.xlsx
[19:56] <Willdude123> I've probably missed something.
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[19:59] <mfa298> I think there are some values on the wiki for 3v3 but it's always good to be able to work it out for yourself
[19:59] <Willdude123> I am trying. :P
[19:59] <Willdude123> Just figuring it out, but my spreadsheet is broken.
[19:59] Nick change: nigelvh -> Guest83777
[19:59] <Willdude123> 2351 volts might just damage an ntx2.
[19:59] Nick change: Lunar_Lander -> Guest50448
[20:00] <Willdude123> :P
[20:00] <mfa298> at least one of your formula doesn't match the title (R3|R1)
[20:01] <mfa298> The clue for that is that R1==R2 so R1|R3 should be the same as R2|R3
[20:01] Nick change: Guest50448 -> Lunar_Lander_
[20:01] <Willdude123> Ah 4273 volts, that makes much more sense.
[20:02] <mfa298> Your formula for High might not be right as well having brackets around a single value doesn't make much sense
[20:02] <Willdude123> Oh yeah/
[20:03] <mfa298> It might also be worth moving the Voltage value into another cell so it's easy to change
[20:04] <Willdude123> =B2/(B2+A4)
[20:04] <Willdude123> Now it's right.
[20:04] <Willdude123> Oh
[20:04] <Willdude123> 0.52V
[20:05] <Willdude123> r3||R1 is 4272.727 with 5v
[20:05] <Willdude123> Ah forgot to *5
[20:05] <Willdude123> Well, times 3.3
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[20:07] <Willdude123> 314hz shift!
[20:07] <Willdude123> Which is tiny.
[20:08] <mfa298> for 50bd that should be ok.
[20:08] <Willdude123> Actually.
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[20:08] <Willdude123> My values are a bit off.
[20:08] <mfa298> it might even be ok for 300bd although there are better people to comment on that
[20:09] <Willdude123> 2.619 for high and 2.38 for lo.
[20:09] <Willdude123> On 5v.
[20:09] <Willdude123> Best order the beaglebone now
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[20:10] <mfa298> those values match what I had in my spreadsheet
[20:10] <chrisstubbs> Wow that was easy, just modified my 5v boost reg to 3.3v by adding one resistor ontop of the other. Cheers for the tip LeoBodnar!
[20:11] <Willdude123> Different from da wiki.
[20:11] <chrisstubbs> bang on 3.30v
[20:11] <mfa298> I think the key thing is that the voltage for the ntx2 data pin is under 3v for both tones.
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[20:12] <Willdude123> So why are my values different?
[20:12] <mfa298> which version on the wiki are you looking at
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[20:13] <Willdude123> http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:ntx2_divider.jpg
[20:13] <mfa298> look at the values used in those sums
[20:14] <Willdude123> AH righty
[20:15] <mfa298> your values do match what's on http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:ntx2_eqn.gif
[20:17] <Willdude123> Yup
[20:17] <mfa298> If you've got a spreadsheet for calculating it all that you're happy with make sure you save it for next time!
[20:17] <Willdude123> Doh farnell is down.
[20:17] <fsphil> when isn't it
[20:18] <Willdude123> Since the beaglebone has a RTOS, will I the ntx2 be fine with one?
[20:18] <Willdude123> Ie will I have to use the UART port?
[20:18] <Willdude123> Or can I use normal pins.
[20:18] <fsphil> if you have one free, use it
[20:19] <fsphil> saves you much hassle
[20:19] <Willdude123> Why though? It takes all the fun out of rtty code.
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[20:19] <fsphil> it's hardware designed for exactly that job
[20:19] <Willdude123> If you are just serial.print ing.
[20:19] <fsphil> exactly
[20:19] <Willdude123> Oh so will it not work otherwise?
[20:19] <fsphil> it may well do
[20:20] <fsphil> but even on an avr I'd still use a uart if there was one
[20:20] <Willdude123> I guess if it's quicker.
[20:20] <mfa298> general rule of programming, if there's a simple way to do it, use that.
[20:20] <fsphil> most avr uarts are busy doing gps though
[20:20] <mfa298> dont make more work for yourself, it just means there's more to go wrong
[20:20] <Willdude123> Except when it means stealing code you don't understand.
[20:20] <Willdude123> yeah
[20:20] <Willdude123> 4 UARTS
[20:20] Nick change: Guest83777 -> nigelvh
[20:20] <fsphil> oh definitly, would be mad not to use them
[20:20] <fsphil> the only catch might be
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander_> UART for NTX2?
[20:21] <fsphil> if they don't support the very slow modes
[20:21] <fsphil> the Pi can do 50 baud, but I know a few USB<>RS232 adaptors that don't
[20:21] <fsphil> but work fine at 300
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[20:23] <LeoBodnar> ping Upu
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[20:35] <Willdude123> Why can't I find a usb a to mini-a cable anywhere?
[20:35] <Willdude123> Literally, nowhere actually sells them.
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[20:39] <fsphil> it's an unusual combination
[20:40] <fsphil> it's like getting an A to A .. there's not much you could do with that
[20:41] <mfa298> I'm not sure I've ever come accross something using the mini-a connector
[20:41] <Willdude123> Oh it doesn't exist.
[20:41] <Willdude123> And I don't need one.
[20:41] <Willdude123> Cause it comes with one.
[20:42] <Willdude123> Urgh farnell is still down.
[20:42] <fsphil> nor me
[20:42] <fsphil> would be nice to have on smaller devices like a nexus 7
[20:43] <fsphil> instead of the otg thing
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[20:43] <mfa298> that's assuming they would like to give you a proper host usb port
[20:44] <mfa298> which does seem to be the thing that's really missing on tablets
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[20:51] <chrisstubbs> Has anyone had the "jumbo" 9m^3 cylinder from boc/balloonhelium before?
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[21:00] <Maxell> chrisstubbs: 9m³? How much do they charge you for that and how many "avarage party ballons" could you fill with that?
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[21:03] Action: SpeedEvil is not satisfied with those.
[21:03] Action: SpeedEvil will only want excellent party balloons.
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[21:08] <chrisstubbs> Maxell, £139.95 1250 9" latex
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[21:18] Nick change: mfa298_ -> mfa298
[21:18] Possible future nick collision: mfa298
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[21:18] <chrisstubbs> Pull yourself together freenode
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[21:18] <chrisstubbs> Evening Mr Lander
[21:18] <mfa298> I think today is the first time I've been netsplit off and it's happened twice already :(
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander_> hello chrisstubbs
[21:19] <chrisstubbs> Sup
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander_> everything goodß
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander_> *?
[21:20] <craag_> mfa298: Has anyone mentioned the prediction for the elreg flight on sat?
[21:20] Nick change: craag_ -> craag
[21:20] <mfa298> craag: dont think so
[21:20] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[21:20] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey chrisstubbs
[21:20] <mfa298> I've not even looked at it yet
[21:21] <craag> mfa298: Wondered if it might be landing somewhere around here..
[21:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> amd mfa298
[21:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good evening
[21:21] <craag> Also is Reading rally I believe
[21:21] <Maxell> chrisstubbs: oh, about 160 euros. Thats pretty neat.
[21:21] <mfa298> craag: I believe it is as well
[21:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> Philip too!
[21:21] <chrisstubbs> Ita bout 75 kg thought, this thing is a beast
[21:21] <craag> Evening G0TDJ_Steve !
[21:21] <chrisstubbs> Hey Steve
[21:22] <chrisstubbs> Ugh looks like its typo o'clock
[21:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> Been chillin' on the sofa. Hows everyone?
[21:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> Did you get it Chris?
[21:23] <chrisstubbs> Not yet, should be here tomorow I expect
[21:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hope so.
[21:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> They don't guarantee next day unless you pay double :D
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[21:24] <chrisstubbs> I went to see Matt who is flying on the 21st to look over his payload. He wants to go for the jumbo but at 75kg i have a feeling it might shatter my spine
[21:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> Blimey 75k???
[21:24] <Willdude123> I think I'll be doing all future tracker development on the BBB.
[21:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> THat's like two thirds a bag of sugar!
[21:25] <G0TDJ_Steve> three quaters even
[21:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> Suddenly, it went quiet....
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[21:27] <craag> Willdude123: I'll be interested to hear how you get on with it.
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[21:27] <chrisstubbs> G0TDJ_Steve, where on earth do you buy your sugar?
[21:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL... Yeah, I got the decimal wrong :D
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[21:28] <mfa298> Willdude123: the downside is that there's likely to be much less help available if you have issues with it.
[21:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> You'll get used to my hopeless maths
[21:29] <mfa298> 75kg of gas sounds like it needs at least two people to shift (and probably a decent sized vehicle to get it in)
[21:29] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... Looks like something turned HF off...
[21:31] <chrisstubbs> Yeah, sounds like a trolley job to me. But for the hassle of sorting out a trolley it may be easier to get two smaller cylinders
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[21:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> I see, 75kg of gas, not payload
[21:32] <LazyLeopard> Definite trolley job, on a par with one of those pneumatic masts beloved of some Field Day set-ups...
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[21:33] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cuppa time - brb
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[21:44] Nick change: Matt_soton -> mattbrejza
[21:49] <fsphil> getting there... http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/news_center/news/20130710.php
[21:49] <fsphil> two years to go
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[21:50] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander_> finally we will see it
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[21:51] <arko> fsphil: so excited :)
[21:51] <arko> i remember when it launched thinking, bah thats 2015, thats like forever away
[21:52] <fsphil> same
[21:52] <fsphil> also impressed that they can resolve the moon at this distance
[21:53] <arko> yeah!
[21:53] <arko> todays talk was so cool, eroomde you shoulda been tehre
[21:53] <arko> the guy who did all the simulations for EDL gave a talk about how it all works
[21:55] <jcoxon> ping eroomde
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander_> hi arko
[21:56] <arko> yo
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander_> what will you do Oct 26 2015?
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander_> no Oct 21
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[21:58] <fsphil> I'm not sure what I'm doing tomorrow
[21:58] <fsphil> never mind 2015
[21:58] <arko> not sure
[21:58] <arko> thats in 2 years
[21:58] Nick change: ms7821_ -> ms7821
[21:58] <arko> fsphil: same
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[21:59] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah but that day has a significance
[21:59] <fsphil> visiting the ISS hopefully :) sadly my expectations are probably a bit high
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander_> it's the day featured in Back To The Future II
[22:00] <arko> oh yeah
[22:00] <arko> we are doing some event
[22:00] <arko> at universal studios
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander_> :)
[22:01] <fsphil> I'll have just finished my holographic shark display
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[22:01] <Lunar_Lander_> so JPL will finally release the hoverboard?
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander_> :)
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[22:01] Nick change: Laurence2 -> Laurenceb_
[22:02] <arko> cant disclose
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/10/human_error_blamed_for_toxic_russian_rocket_explosion/
[22:03] <Laurenceb_> looks like wrong polarity
[22:03] <Laurenceb_> so not that stupid
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[22:03] <arko> and it has always been due... to human error....
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander_> "Turning your volume down is advised"
[22:04] <fsphil> hopefully people will be better dressed than in the film
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
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[22:15] <x-f_> is CHAV an acronym or a word?
[22:15] Nick change: x-f_ -> x-f
[22:16] <x-f> i decyphered SHUTIT, but can't figure this one out :)
[22:17] <daveake> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDueCnJHno4
[22:17] <Willdude123> mfa298, it's pretty similar to the rpi, well the gpio lib is.
[22:18] <Willdude123> But urgh python 3
[22:20] <arko> daveake: lol
[22:20] <daveake> I'm to blame for the names of the backup trackers :p
[22:20] <LazyLeopard> Uh huh....
[22:23] <x-f> haha, cheers!
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[22:26] <arko> man, freenode has been all sorts of messed up
[22:27] <LazyLeopard> yeah, sort of free nodes today...
[22:29] <Willdude123> I think it was a ddos
[22:31] <Maxell> [freenode] -christel(christel@freenode/staff/exherbo.christel)- [Global Notice] As you may have noticed we appear to have trotted over the grumpy troll's bridge -- the network is currently being attacked and as a result we're temporarily without services as we work to get a working copy of the db fired up elsewhere. Apologies for the inconvenience.
[22:32] <G0TDJ_Steve> Gonna close this one, bbl
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[00:00] --- Thu Jul 11 2013