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[04:14] <heathkid> I'm surprised no one has joined #usahab for USA APRS HAB stuff yet...
[04:15] Action: stilldavid didn't know it existed
[04:15] <heathkid> HAB is more than just RTTY
[04:15] <heathkid> :) there it is
[04:15] <stilldavid> also more than just APRS beacons from the early '90s :)
[04:15] <heathkid> exactly
[04:16] <heathkid> APRS may take more power and a larger balloon... but hey... we (in the US) can use it so why not?
[04:16] <heathkid> actually not that much more power and not a really large balloon
[04:17] <heathkid> running 40+ hours on 2xAA Energizer Ultimate Lithiums
[04:18] <stilldavid> oh, for sure. I run APRS on my payloads now, but a lot of folks in the us hab scene haven't innovated in 20 years
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[06:06] <eroomde> morning
[06:06] <x-f> good morning
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[07:07] <Willdude123> Morning.
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[09:48] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[09:49] <mfa298> morning
[09:50] <HixWork> oh, action :)
[09:50] <mfa298> seems to have been quiet in these parts so far today
[09:50] <HixWork> yup
[09:52] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[09:52] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
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[10:11] <craag> G0TDJ_Steve: ping
[10:14] <Lunar_LanderU> hi GW8RAK
[10:14] <GW8RAK> Morning Lunar_LanderU
[10:14] <GW8RAK> U for university?
[10:14] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[10:14] <x-f> U for unlimited!
[10:15] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[10:15] <Ugi> Hi guys - just to break the monotony, I could ask you another inane question: what it is the most desirable window for shift? Is 560Hz too much for example?
[10:15] <mattbrejza> it should be a multiple of the baud rate
[10:15] <fsphil> at a minimum
[10:15] <mattbrejza> but when the baud rate is 50 this matters less
[10:15] <mattbrejza> unless you space it at 100hz
[10:16] <fsphil> 150 better than 175?
[10:16] <mattbrejza> (my 300 payload was 425 shift but lets ignore that)
[10:16] <mattbrejza> yep
[10:16] <GW8RAK> Do you mean a direct multiple of the baud rate? Why?
[10:16] <Ugi> So 500, 550, 600 is better than 560 for 50 baud
[10:16] <craag> 560 is a bit much for 50 baud, if it drifts then people will have to retune a lot.
[10:16] <mattbrejza> if you space at multiples of the baud, then each carrier is orthogonal
[10:16] <SpeedEvil> I thought it should _not_ be a multiple ideally
[10:17] <mattbrejza> the nulls are at the multiples
[10:17] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[10:17] Action: SpeedEvil decides it's too early for maths,
[10:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> craag: Hi Philip, sorry I was AFK
[10:17] <fsphil> I thought it didn't matter much as long as it was at least the baud rate
[10:17] <GW8RAK> I was just thinking that SpeedEvil
[10:17] <mattbrejza> i shall find source
[10:18] <Lunar_LanderU> bbl lunch
[10:18] Nick change: DanielRi1hman -> DanielRichman
[10:18] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: there is quite a lot of close-in energy made by on off keying a carrier. which is essentially what's being done.
[10:18] <SpeedEvil> aiui
[10:19] <SpeedEvil> if you on-off key a carrier, at 50hz, a large amount of energy pops out at ±50hz
[10:19] <mattbrejza> but 50 baud is 25Hz
[10:19] <Ugi> hi DanielRichman - thanks for responding to my CUSF e-mail.
[10:19] <SpeedEvil> if it's a swquatewave, more at 150hz, ...
[10:20] <fsphil> that's a fair point
[10:20] <mattbrejza> well a 50 baud 0101010 is a 25hz square wave
[10:20] <SpeedEvil> true
[10:20] <SpeedEvil> even harmonics will be quite a bit weaker
[10:21] <GW8RAK> So are you saying that the shift should be an even multiple of the baud rate?
[10:21] <SpeedEvil> so, I cautiously agree
[10:21] <mattbrejza> any multiple
[10:22] <mattbrejza> a 50 baud 0101010 will have peaks at 25Hz, 75Hz, 125Hz
[10:22] <mattbrejza> so you should space your other carrier at 50,100,150
[10:22] <mattbrejza> which is what ofdm does
[10:22] <SpeedEvil> ofdm also uses band limiting,
[10:22] <DanielRichman> Ugi: no problem
[10:23] <SpeedEvil> squarewaves were confusing me
[10:23] <SpeedEvil> it would matter with >2 carriers
[10:23] <Ugi> I need to get hold of the other guy involved & work on some availability
[10:23] <mattbrejza> well whether you filter or not the harmonics are still in the same place, just much weaker
[10:24] <Ugi> I think he might only be around weekends, where I do have a week with the kids mid-August which would be good for me.
[10:26] <HixWork> Researching for a job interview I've got tomorrow, I came across this. Maybe I can get to do some HAB with work :)
[10:26] <HixWork> http://www.compositestoday.com/2013/06/curing-prepreg-in-the-stratosphere/
[10:27] <SpeedEvil> hah
[10:28] <fsphil> sites with full screen popups when you visit them should be removed from the net
[10:28] <mfa298> Ugi: after the chatting yesterday about SDR software I did some tests and found all three apps seemed to work on my netbook (using an FCD Pro+) with HDSDR possibly being the lowest CPU with some tweaking.
[10:29] <Ugi> DanielRichman: Do you have a feel for how much prior notice we need to organise a Cam' launch? If the key 5 are on holiday over the summer it might take some doing.
[10:29] <Ugi> mfa298: Thanks - I _nearly_ got SDR running on my netbook using SDR#
[10:30] <Ugi> by cutting down the sample rate to 1M and the waterfall to v slow
[10:30] <Ugi> Had issues with the virtual audio cable running on XP
[10:30] <Ugi> but I could output to speaker a stream that my desktop would read with a microphone
[10:31] <Ugi> will have to try HDSDR
[10:31] <mfa298> my copy of sdr# is a few releases behind. You might also find the rtlsdr needs a bit more cpu.
[10:31] <Ugi> 'cos I was still running at 80+% CPU
[10:32] <mfa298> I also found the version of sdr# I had didn't really like such a small screen
[10:32] <Ugi> My dongle says E4000 - is that same as RTLSDR, or am I confusing two different things there.
[10:32] <DanielRichman> Ugi: hmm, tricky. It really depends on the day... are you looking at having U16s at the launch? if so, probably a week
[10:33] <mfa298> that's one of them, The rtlsdrs all have the same usb chip and various tuner ships (E4000, R820 etc.)
[10:33] <Ugi> DanielRichman: Yes, probably 2-3 Junior school age but a week is not problem. If we need a month then that becomes harder.
[10:34] <Ugi> Thanks - I'll try to get hold of Dave (the other dad involved).
[10:34] <DanielRichman> oh no, not a month
[10:34] <DanielRichman> advance warning is cool since it makes planning things easier, but certainly not necessary
[10:34] <DanielRichman> at any rate due to the weather we need to be closer to the time to decide
[10:34] <Ugi> We'll try to work on a date sooner rather than later.
[10:35] <DanielRichman> cool
[10:35] <Ugi> Tracker is not working, although some error trapping etc needs adding
[10:35] <Ugi> _now_ working!
[10:36] <Ugi> so it's a case of building a box and getting all the parts together
[10:37] <Ugi> I'm pretty sure we can predict being ready by mid August
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[10:42] <Chesnut> Hello
[10:43] <mfa298> Hello Chesnut
[10:43] <HixWork> hi
[10:46] <HixWork> am i correct in thinking that you can solder coax straight to the pins on the NTX2 to create a 1/4 wave?
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[10:47] <Chesnut> Where would I buy an antenna for the NTX2? :) Do they sell them on DealExtreme?
[10:47] <UpuWork> you make it
[10:47] <mfa298> most people make them
[10:47] <UpuWork> out of wire
[10:48] <Chesnut> I what?
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[10:48] <HixWork> UpuWork, safe to solder coax straight to the NTX2?
[10:48] <HixWork> thinking about molunting remotely from the pcb
[10:48] <HixWork> *mounting
[10:51] <mfa298> HixWork: as long as it's mechanically stable I can't see any real reason not to attach coax directly to the ntx2. There might be a slight impedance bump but then that's probably true with soldering it onto a pcb as well.
[10:51] <UpuWork> if you're quick yes
[10:51] <UpuWork> I'm going to to a Wiki article on making a 1/4wave at some point
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[10:52] <HixWork> mfa298, I was figuring the same re soldering tothe pcb never going to be perfectly 50ohm
[10:52] <mfa298> I keep thinking we need a high level block diagram article as well - maybe I should make some time to draw some diagrams.
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[11:00] <Rom> Is it possible to send a payload without a radio module such as an NTX2? We plan to send up an Arduino Uno R3>GPS module>GSM module(GSM mobile phone)
[11:01] <Lunar_LanderU> back
[11:01] <Ugi> Rom - I expect it's possible, but if you are seding an Arduino, why not adda radio?
[11:01] <fsphil> possible certainly, but you won't get a phone signal above 1km, and you may land in a place without a signal either
[11:01] <Ugi> sending
[11:01] <mfa298> Rom: you can but you won't get much data during flight and
[11:01] <Lunar_LanderU> HixWork: I soldered a coax directly to the NTX2 and it worked
[11:01] <mfa298> ... and you're relying on a good signal when it lands
[11:02] Action: mfa298 must get better at find the arrow keys rather than enter
[11:02] <fsphil> gsm is useful as a backup, but it's not recommended as your only method of tracking
[11:02] <fsphil> just too risky
[11:03] <mfa298> I think for the people that have flown a gsm tracker as backup it seems like there's around 50% success rate of getting a position from it on landing
[11:03] <Rom> OK, understood, what then would be the optimal method to record positions with minimal equipment to save on payload weight, and we are beginners! :)
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[11:04] <fsphil> definitely the ntx2 :)
[11:04] <fsphil> it's about 4 extra components
[11:04] <Lunar_LanderU> helios stolen?!
[11:04] <fsphil> ntx2, 3 resistors, and an antenna
[11:04] <fsphil> ok, five components
[11:05] <HixWork> Lunar_LanderU, 1.good to hear it works ok. 2. I asked about stoled tues.
[11:05] <HixWork> *Stonlen
[11:05] <HixWork> **Stolen
[11:05] <gonzo__> german cake?
[11:06] <HixWork> heh
[11:06] <Lunar_LanderU> ?
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[11:07] <gonzo__> is that a similar tradition to our bacon butties on launch day?
[11:08] <Lunar_LanderU> fun with A/V
[11:08] <Lunar_LanderU> a thermodynamics script was recognized 1/43 on virustotal in 2011, now 0/47
[11:08] <Lunar_LanderU> shows how crap these scanners can be
[11:09] <Lunar_LanderU> I mean that the earlier reading was surely a false positive now rectified
[11:09] <Lunar_LanderU> but let's not start that again
[11:09] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[11:10] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
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[11:14] <Rom> Ok thanks for that. So am I right in thinking GPS data and other data like temperature readings can be sent via the Ntx2 and ofcourse the associated ground based HAM radio receiver is required.
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[11:16] <fsphil> yes you can send anything really
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[11:16] <fsphil> data rate permitting
[11:17] <craag> Rom: This explains in detail how we do it http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[11:17] <craag> Basically we just send that $$ line over and over with new data each time.
[11:17] <Tion_> is there a recommened ham radio for use on the ground at a good price? what cost should i expect to pay etc.
[11:19] <mfa298> Tion_: decent recievers generally cost £100 and upwards for 2nd hand (usually via ebay)
[11:19] <craag> Tion_: It depends what your budget is. One of the best is probably an FT790, although they're a little pricey and quite rare to find now afaik.
[11:19] <mattbrejza> icom r10
[11:19] <mfa298> you can also use the rtl-sdr (TV dongle) sticks which are ~ £10 but not as sensitive as a HAM reciever
[11:19] <Rom> Fantastic thanks craag
[11:20] <craag> The rtl-sdrs also require a reasonably powerful laptop, as they do the radio demodulation in software.
[11:20] <Tion_> interesting, at least at that price its not going to get lost if you dont find the payload!
[11:22] <Tion_> what would you consider to be a powerful laptop? i currently own a old late-2008 Macbook
[11:23] <fsphil> my similarly aged Thinkpad does the job. I believe it's got a 1.2ghz processor
[11:23] <HixWork> easily up to it
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[11:24] <Tion_> cool :)
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[11:26] <gonzo__> lots of people are successfullt using RTL dongles with a preamp
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[11:26] <gonzo__> saw an interesting demo of an RTL on a smartphone.
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[11:28] <PE2G> Hi all, I will be tracking the De Bilt (NL) ozone sonde
[11:28] <PE2G> http://sondetracker.radiosonda.sk/v2/index.html
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[11:28] <PE2G> http://pe2gradiosonde.funpic.org/js/
[11:28] <PE2G> Launch in a few minutes
[11:28] <fsphil> chasing?
[11:29] <PE2G> Another schaser is already on standby, I'll monitor from home
[11:29] <mfa298> gonzo__: I couln't make it work on my phone (seemed to be a USB-OTG issue) but have had it working on a tablet.
[11:29] <x-f> that page says "don't touch it"
[11:31] <x-f> oh, wow, there are balloons appearing on the first link
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[11:32] <PE2G> x-f: That info goes for French experimental sondes
[11:32] <PE2G> Ozone sonde not yet up
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[11:34] <ibanezmatt13> Good Afternoon :)
[11:34] G8LZE (d4386511@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[11:36] <fsphil> yo
[11:38] <ibanezmatt13> How's it goin?
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[11:39] <ibanezmatt13> seriously http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4UpQdOcL_c
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[11:42] <Tion_> ok, thanks for al your help, so to summarise what i'll need/purchase. Arduino Uno R3 > "Arduino / 5V Compatible uBLOX MAX-6 Breakout With Sarantel Antenna" > NTX2 > Antenna > HAM Radio > laptop w/ internet
[11:43] <ibanezmatt13> First launch and we go for Hydrogen...
[11:44] <ibanezmatt13> Tion_: This guy has a load of good tutorials: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCxzA9_kg6s
[11:44] <ibanezmatt13> For Arduino
[11:44] <PE2G> This is a demo launch for Met Office personnel, so it's taking a bit more time...
[11:45] <PE2G> It's up
[11:46] <PE2G> Don't touch French experimental sondes (disclaimer)
[11:46] <PE2G> disregard
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[11:48] <aie93> Afternoon everyone
[11:49] <aie93> Currently tracking Tudor Grange Academy's first payload across the midlands.
[11:50] <gonzo__> is something flying today then?
[11:54] <aie93> Yep, I meant to come on before - but asked the leader to let you guys know. I assume they didn't!
[11:55] <aie93> They didn't put the payload on the tracker either, so my uploads are going nowhere I think
[11:55] <aie93> The payload is currently over bromsgrove (ish)
[11:56] <PE2G> aie93: Altitude?
[11:57] <aie93> Currently at ~5km
[11:57] <HixWork> is it this lainch aie93: MET BALLOON RELEASE FROM 521841N 0023522W (TENBURY WELLS)
[11:57] <aie93> That's the one :)
[11:57] <x-f> is is on the logtail
[11:57] <x-f> it is*
[11:58] <x-f> "payload": "TudorGrange"
[11:58] <x-f> aie93, keep tracking! :)
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[11:58] <x-f> "_fix_invalid": true - that's why it isn't on the map
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[11:59] Nick change: Steffann -> Steffanx
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[11:59] <aie93> Ah, I don't have a fix flag on the downlink
[11:59] <aie93> it just doesn't transmit if it's invalid
[12:00] <costyn> fsphil: I made this dependency chart a while back; maybe I should add it to the wiki so newbies can see what goes into a launch? http://i.imgur.com/Zhzn7Oo.png
[12:00] <x-f> i guess, they have specified it in the payload doc on habitat
[12:00] <aie93> I just configured the payload doc becuase they hadn't and I didn't put that in it...
[12:00] <Laurenceb> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-F9XDt63TX_Y/UdSPxBO5ZKI/AAAAAAAAWSs/t3ep8PGeYSo/s638/dougtricycle.png
[12:00] <aie93> Adding that to the Wiki would be great :)
[12:01] <x-f> costyn, that's awesome
[12:01] <costyn> thanks
[12:01] <HixWork> Laurenceb, Obree has gone too far now
[12:01] <Rom> Thanks for everyones input, one last question, i am in the process of buying the NTX2, after reading the HAB Supplies page it recommends to check over here for advice on ordering, i assume my choices are solely between the 434.075Mhz and 434.650Mhz
[12:02] <HixWork> fsphil, - NOTAM missing
[12:02] <HixWork> rom speak to Upu first
[12:02] <HixWork> or UpuWork
[12:03] <Chesnut> Ordered the Radiometrix NTX2 from Upu's store. :)
[12:03] <aie93> Should I re-submit the document to you think?
[12:03] <Rom> whats upu's store called?
[12:03] <costyn> Rom: that's HAB supplies, where ylou're already at :)
[12:03] <costyn> -l
[12:03] <Rom> ah,... ;)
[12:03] <Rom> yeah
[12:04] <Rom> is upu on here often?
[12:04] <mfa298> but talk to UpuWork before ordering, you'll find it worthwhile
[12:05] <fsphil> that just sounds sinister
[12:07] <Rom> is i send a question via "query" will that stay there until he logs on? or do i have to catch him whilst online
[12:07] <costyn> Rom: he'll see it in the backlog
[12:07] <costyn> Rom: he's here quite often
[12:07] <Rom> sweet
[12:10] <fsphil> HixWork: what's that?
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[12:15] <jarod> ok i got my bnc-mcx adapter
[12:15] <jarod> signal so much better now
[12:15] <aie93> The flight is following the exact route the predictor said, that's amazing
[12:16] <aie93> Surprising that I'm still getting signal from the payload actually, it's the other side of birmingham
[12:17] <fsphil> there's a flight?
[12:17] <aie93> Payload flipped over on launch, so I'm incredibly glad that I put a di-pole on it rather than a monopole otherwise I'm sure I wouldn't be recieving anything. Guys at work had good advice obviously!
[12:17] <aie93> yeah, I appologise no one let you guys know - I asked them to, so that the frequency was clear
[12:18] <aie93> the payload is on its way to coventry on 434.650
[12:18] <aie93> currently at ~7km
[12:19] <aie93> hopefully the first of many payloads for tudor grange academy in solihull
[12:20] <fsphil> "_fix_invalid": true,
[12:21] <aie93> Yeah, I've apparently set the document up incorrectly
[12:22] <fsphil> there's no flight doc either
[12:22] <aie93> It's the payload I've done - is that not right?
[12:22] <fsphil> the payload doc specifies how the string is constructed
[12:23] <fsphil> the flight doc puts the flight on the dropdown list on dl-fldigi
[12:23] <fsphil> so you might make multiple flights with one payload doc
[12:23] <fsphil> for example
[12:23] <PE2G> aie93: 5km at 12::57 and 7km at 13:18, that would mean a climb speeds of 1.7 m/s
[12:23] <fsphil> http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[12:23] <fsphil> see the flight documents section here ^^
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[12:23] <craag> PE2G: hmm
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[12:23] <aie93> Just found it, filling it in now thanks
[12:23] <fsphil> you can still make one
[12:24] <craag> aie93: What size balloon?
[12:24] <aie93> 1000g
[12:24] <aie93> We were aiming for 2m/s so about 1.7 is pretty good
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[12:24] <fsphil> howyee balloon?
[12:25] <fsphil> 2m/s is risky ascent rate for those :)
[12:25] <craag> That's quite low.. people have floated with that!
[12:25] <HixWork> howyee sound in my head like how are you in a west of ireland accent
[12:25] <aie93> There we go :)
[12:25] <fsphil> howyee doin'
[12:26] <aie93> The payload was far heavier than I advised, so we'll see what happens - hope it doesn't just stay up there :)
[12:26] <Darkside> Chinese rubber: Lasts longer than you do
[12:26] <fsphil> it'll come down .. eventually
[12:26] <fsphil> hopefully not too far away
[12:27] <HixWork> grand there fsphil
[12:27] <fsphil> no signal here yet
[12:28] <Darkside> theres a launch on right now?
[12:28] <aie93> I said I'd give them a hand doing the tracking - the rest wasn't done too well it seems :)
[12:29] <craag> Darkside: Yep
[12:29] <HixWork> yup on sn now Darkside
[12:29] <craag> aie93: We can help too, if you let us know!
[12:29] <Darkside> call?
[12:29] <fsphil> TudorGrange Darkside
[12:29] <Darkside> huh
[12:29] <fsphil> there's no flight doc (unless you've made that aie93?)
[12:29] <Darkside> i dont see it
[12:29] <aie93> I just made it
[12:29] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/bnc-mcx-rtlsdrmini.jpg :-)
[12:29] <aie93> assume it's not approved as of yet
[12:30] <Darkside> i dont see any tudor on spacenearys
[12:30] <craag> Darkside: payload doc issues..
[12:30] <fsphil> Darkside: it's in logtail :)
[12:30] <craag> And it's already in flight... :|
[12:30] <Darkside> relatd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPv2lF3Dsgg
[12:31] <Darkside> wtf
[12:31] <Darkside> why was this not tested before launch
[12:31] <aie93> This is what happens when working with a school apparently :)
[12:31] <Darkside> even still
[12:33] <fsphil> it's near 434.650 yea?
[12:33] <aie93> that's right
[12:33] <craag> alt now?
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[12:34] <fsphil> 8175m
[12:34] <aie93> Thanks :) I'm not getting a great signal from the M5
[12:35] <aie93> It's quite windy today
[12:36] <fsphil> you're chasing aie93?
[12:36] <aie93> Yep
[12:36] <craag> aie93: How many receivers do you have in total?
[12:36] <aie93> Not quite at the M5 yet
[12:36] <aie93> I have one in total - me :)
[12:37] <aie93> Don't for one second think that this is a well planned flight guys
[12:37] <Darkside> we gathered thart
[12:37] <fsphil> what give it away? :)
[12:37] <fsphil> they have a notam right?
[12:37] <aie93> Yes, that's in place
[12:38] <aie93> Made sure it was safe
[12:38] <PE2G> 8175m at 13:34 would mean a climb rate of 1.2 m/s in the past 15 min
[12:38] <aie93> not that it was necissarily going to do exactly what we ant
[12:38] <Darkside> what size hwoyee?
[12:38] <aie93> 1000g
[12:38] <Darkside> hrm
[12:39] <fsphil> no new data in a while
[12:39] <Darkside> pretty good chance of a float
[12:39] <fsphil> oh there it is
[12:39] <fsphil> 8972m
[12:39] <fsphil> "temperature_internal": 26.75 -- yikes
[12:39] <Darkside> it it at least transmitting telemetry normally?
[12:39] <fsphil> strings look valid from the logtail
[12:39] <Darkside> still not seing anything on the tracker
[12:40] <Darkside> whats up with that?
[12:40] <fsphil> the _fix_invalid thing
[12:40] <Darkside> still no flight doc?
[12:40] <Darkside> oh
[12:40] <aie93> We're a bit confused about the internal temp because no one remembers putting in the hand warmers :P
[12:40] <Darkside> should i clear the tracker?
[12:41] <fsphil> go for it
[12:41] <Darkside> im guessing Leobodnar doesnt need his data?
[12:41] <Darkside> ok
[12:41] <Darkside> wiping it
[12:41] <fsphil> I've taken a screenshot incase he wants
[12:41] <Darkside> blam
[12:41] <UpuWork> hey Rom
[12:41] <UpuWork> here now
[12:42] <Darkside> now for data
[12:42] <Darkside> well theres the chase car
[12:42] <Darkside> :P
[12:42] <Darkside> ill get some predictions ready to go
[12:42] <PE2G> 2.7 m/s climb, based on fsphil's alts
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[12:43] <Darkside> oh god
[12:43] <Relz> hi everyone
[12:43] <Darkside> whats this per-vehicle stuff
[12:43] <Darkside> fsphil: you do it
[12:43] <Darkside> predictions that is
[12:43] <fsphil> k
[12:43] <fsphil> that array is for setting prediction values per-callsign
[12:43] <Darkside> and grab the wind data
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[12:43] <fsphil> so if you have two different burst alts, or cutting something down
[12:43] <Darkside> kk
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[12:44] <fsphil> aie93: having trouble decoding?
[12:46] <HixWork> ooh prediction has it landing near me
[12:47] Action: HixWork is UHFless
[12:47] <Darkside> HixWork: are you seeing stuff on the map?
[12:47] <Darkside> or did you run a prediction
[12:47] <fsphil> gfs download failed
[12:48] <eroomde> yay
[12:48] <Darkside> oh goody
[12:48] <eroomde> gfs sucks
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[12:49] <Chesnut> What are the USB radio receiver dongles called?
[12:49] <Chesnut> Is there a better name for them?
[12:49] <Darkside> which ones
[12:49] <HixWork> Darkside, its on spacenear
[12:49] <Darkside> HixWork: hrm
[12:49] <Darkside> not updating for me
[12:49] <fsphil> NOAA are quite unreliable of late
[12:49] <HixWork> ahh eroomde hello
[12:49] <eroomde> Chesnut: lots exist, eg EZCAP
[12:49] <eroomde> ah HixWork reciprocated
[12:49] <Chesnut> Well, that's a company
[12:49] <HixWork> eroomde, guess who called work yesterday evening?
[12:49] <Chesnut> I'm thinking of the more general name
[12:49] <x-f> Chesnut, a more general name might be RTLSDR
[12:49] <Darkside> yeah
[12:50] <Chesnut> Thanks, x-f :)
[12:50] <Chesnut> I also got your mail
[12:50] <Darkside> 'RTLSDR' is the name most people give them
[12:50] <HixWork> Chesnut, look for cosycave in the UK
[12:50] <HixWork> very cheap
[12:50] <Darkside> then put a HABAmp in front of it
[12:50] <Chesnut> I am not from the UK
[12:50] <HixWork> dang
[12:50] <craag> +1 for the habamp
[12:50] <HixWork> google this in your land then Newsky TV28T
[12:51] <Chesnut> I'm from a similar area to x-f, Estonia :)
[12:51] <x-f> Chesnut, didn't recognize you under this nickname :)
[12:51] <Darkside> HixWork: are you seing a balloon on spacenearus?
[12:51] <Darkside> as i'm not
[12:51] <HixWork> Darkside, yes
[12:51] <Chesnut> Huh?
[12:51] <HixWork> yellow one :)
[12:51] <fsphil> anyone else seeing the signal?
[12:51] <Ugi> Nothing on the map for me.
[12:51] <Darkside> hrm
[12:51] <Darkside> HixWork: refresh
[12:51] <Chesnut> Did I change my nickname?
[12:51] <craag> Nothing for me.
[12:51] <fsphil> I've got nothing near 434.650
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[12:51] <Darkside> i think you'r elooking at the wrong balloon
[12:51] <Ugi> or rather I have a chase car but no balloons
[12:52] <aie93> I can just about see that it's transmitting, but I can't recieve
[12:52] <mfa298> fsphil: I don't see anything on .650 either
[12:52] <fsphil> urg
[12:52] <HixWork> Darkside, worry ye not ctrl F5 sorted it out nothing now
[12:52] <mfa298> scrap that, something is jsut appearing on the waterfal
[12:52] <fsphil> hopefully not antenna fail
[12:52] <aie93> I'm recieving again
[12:53] <aie93> i'm on 434.649.34
[12:53] <mfa298> didn't last long enoguh to lock on though
[12:53] <aie93> USB
[12:53] <Darkside> doesnt it transmit continuously?
[12:53] <aie93> disappeared off lock again
[12:53] <aie93> it is still transmitting though
[12:54] <HixWork> TudorGrange
[12:54] <HixWork> Time: 2013-07-04 12:31:24
[12:54] <HixWork> Position: 52.40260433,1.37669717
[12:54] <craag> yay on map
[12:54] <Darkside> yup
[12:54] <HixWork> though im thinking its a GPS bug again
[12:54] <fsphil> that was old data
[12:54] <Darkside> uhm
[12:54] <craag> erm
[12:54] <mfa298> what I saw had around a 300hz shift
[12:54] <HixWork> he said ~Coventry earlier
[12:54] <Darkside> gps bug
[12:54] <Darkside> or so it looks like
[12:54] <HixWork> lat lon issue
[12:54] <craag> hotfix lon = -lon?
[12:54] <HixWork> its flitting back and forth
[12:55] <aie93> looks lke the lon is negative
[12:55] <Darkside> can anyone else receive data
[12:55] <fsphil> nothing here yet
[12:56] <craag> powering up receiver now, but don't have a great antenna set up yet.
[12:56] <Darkside> was this launch even announced on the list?
[12:56] <fsphil> nope
[12:56] <HixWork> nope
[12:56] <Darkside> yay
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[12:56] <mfa298> got a bit: $$tudorGrange,28
[12:56] <mfa298> and then it disappeared
[12:57] <mfa298> FCD Pro+ dead on .650 and it's in the waterfall near 2500Hz
[12:57] <aie93> That's her mfa...
[12:57] <mfa298> currently set on 7n2 300Hz split 50bd (not sure if that's what it should be but at least had some decode)
[12:58] <aie93> that's perfect config mfa
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[12:59] <x-f> Chesnut, you were Tramvai earlier, that's what i meant by nick change
[12:59] <mfa298> not sure if anyone can make anything useful from: 2$$Tu`orOrange,2<9,12:u8>28,+5228.0677,+0p046.12><1275n5,_E7^
[12:59] <Chesnut> Oh, I was? :P
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[13:00] <Tramvai> Well
[13:00] <Tramvai> Identitiy crysis :P
[13:01] <Tramvai> http://dx.com/p/92096 I'm thinking of ordering this one. I read the reviews on the web and concluded it's fine: anyone objects? :P
[13:01] <aie93> That'll be something like 52 28.0677 N, 001 46.12 W mfa
[13:01] <Laurenceb> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LK3Jc8YZXjs/S9CT87Jz3bI/AAAAAAAANgc/j73htgwoIoo/s1600/stupid-inventions-06.jpg
[13:01] <UpuWork> Tramvai they need an ESD diode fitting but otherwise fine
[13:01] <Darkside> that'll have a FC0013
[13:01] <Darkside> or FC0012
[13:01] <Darkside> which is fine for HAB
[13:02] <aie93> This is a right mess, but thanks everyone for your amazing response to the terrible planning
[13:02] <Darkside> aie93: now you need more listeners
[13:03] <Tramvai> Ah, hi Upu. I see you shipped the radio module :) Thanks!
[13:03] <craag> aie93: Too many people are starting to rely on this though, getting a balloon showing on spacenearus is a key part of the payload-building stage!
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[13:04] <Ugi> Looking at the logtail, I'm not sure it's sending GPS data correctly - jumps 30 minutes if arc between transmissions
[13:04] <aie93> I definately think that picture that was shown earlier would have been very helpful for future
[13:04] <eroomde> there was talk of a wall of shame
[13:05] <Darkside> do eet
[13:05] <Tramvai> UpuWork: I did not see anyone else say anything about the ESD diode on the web, is it necessary or optional?
[13:05] <eroomde> for people who make daniel and adam recode the DL on the fly because they haven't tested their strings and so on
[13:05] <craag> at the conference - yes!
[13:05] <iain_G4SGX> where exactly is it? Not where it is on the map i take it
[13:05] <UpuWork> necessary if you plug a larger antenna in
[13:05] <craag> iain_G4SGX: somehere 'above coventry'
[13:05] <G8LZE> Good signal here on 434.650 but what mode?
[13:05] <UpuWork> balloon up ?
[13:05] <aie93> RTTY 50 baud
[13:05] <craag> 7n2
[13:06] <aie93> 7n2
[13:06] <craag> UpuWork: yep
[13:06] <G8LZE> Ta
[13:06] <fsphil> 320hz shift from the doc
[13:06] <fsphil> UpuWork: yea. bit of a surprise one :)
[13:06] <aie93> 320 seemed to work well on the ground, drifting toward 300 in the air
[13:06] <fsphil> there may also be a meridian bug
[13:07] <fsphil> but really would need some more data to see
[13:07] <aie93> I looked at the code - there is a meridian bug
[13:07] <fsphil> which one?
[13:07] <aie93> (part[0] == 'N') ? '+' : '-';
[13:07] <fsphil> padding?
[13:07] <fsphil> hah
[13:07] <aie93> (part[0] == 'W') ? '+' : '-';
[13:07] <fsphil> yep
[13:07] <UpuWork> got it weakly
[13:08] <fsphil> aie93: how is it printing the numbers?
[13:08] <fsphil> there may also be a padding bug
[13:08] <UpuWork> weak signal ?
[13:08] <mfa298> it keeps going from my waterfall. I tried swapping to the 817 but still nothing and as it's so weak I don't really want to use a T piece
[13:08] <aie93> it's grabbing the numbers from the GPS strings, so shouldn't be a padding bug
[13:09] <UpuWork> wait up
[13:09] <UpuWork> where is it actually ?
[13:09] <fsphil> near coventry
[13:09] <gonzo__> I still question decoding and recoding the lat/lon in the air, if you are not using it in the air.
[13:09] <mfa298> 434.650, near coventry
[13:09] <aie93> coventry area
[13:09] <iain_G4SGX> got a trace
[13:10] <aie93> it's not decoding the string, just changing the N and W indicators to +,- (incorrectly in the one case :)
[13:10] <UpuWork> got it
[13:10] <gonzo__> ah. ok
[13:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nothing heard yet on the South Coast
[13:12] <craag> nowt here yet with yagi out the window.
[13:12] <Darkside> hrm
[13:12] <Darkside> if its not decoding the string
[13:12] <fsphil> still nothign here. I guess from the sounds of it, it's going to be too weak for me to decode anyway
[13:12] <Darkside> that means its DD.MMMMM or something?
[13:12] <fsphil> ddmm.mmmm
[13:13] <Darkside> ah
[13:13] <fsphil> it may just be negative
[13:13] <fsphil> from what it should be
[13:13] <craag> can't we hotfix that?
[13:13] <fsphil> DanielRichman is on da case
[13:14] <craag> :)
[13:14] <Ugi> from the code posted above it looks like N/S is OK but E/W should be reversed.
[13:14] <Darkside> Daniel is a man Rich in talent
[13:14] <fsphil> yea
[13:14] <fsphil> position should be good too, no padding bugs
[13:14] <fsphil> apart from the obvious one
[13:14] <fsphil> 2.7m/s .. it might not float
[13:15] <craag> 2.7 with a heavy payload, probably not.
[13:15] <craag> aie93: How heavy is the payload?
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[13:16] <Darkside> i take it the hotfix is in place
[13:16] <fsphil> yep
[13:16] <mfa298> looks like it
[13:16] <mfa298> otherwise it just moved very quickly
[13:17] <fsphil> heading for the wash
[13:17] <iain_G4SGX> Well done upu, what you got, a parabolic dish for 70cms? he he.
[13:17] <mfa298> that's further east that I was expecting from the early suggested location
[13:18] <UpuWork> close Iain, close :)
[13:18] <fsphil> UpuWork will be part of the DSN soon
[13:18] <UpuWork> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAM/Rotator/IMG_0796.JPG
[13:18] <UpuWork> is that position now accurate ?
[13:18] <craag> mfa298: I think it's heading east worryingly quickly.
[13:18] <fsphil> in theory. I can't think of anything else that could affect it
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[13:19] <M0TVU> Afternoon all
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[13:19] <iain_G4SGX> I put my colinear on a 12M pneumatic mast at the end of the garden next weekend, that'll help. Neighbours wont like it tho.
[13:19] <fsphil> howdy M0TVU
[13:19] <M0TVU> Howdy
[13:19] <M0TVU> M3IKN chase is that really there?
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[13:20] <Darkside> sucks you cant use amateur on balloons in the UK
[13:20] <Darkside> my callsign woudl be great
[13:20] <Darkside> M0HFO - M0 High Flying Object
[13:20] <M0TVU> I have a debate abou that
[13:20] <fsphil> well you could still use ths callsign
[13:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> Is this signal cpntinous or intermittent ?
[13:20] <M0TVU> Why can't you use it?
[13:20] <aie93> sorry, pulled over to use the yagi
[13:21] <fsphil> that doesn't make the NTX2 an amateur radio transmitter :)
[13:21] <aie93> payload is 950g
[13:21] <HixWork> take it this flight is headed for the North Sea
[13:21] <iain_G4SGX> Ofcom are getting a proposal soon, we shall see wat they say. Its a start at least.
[13:21] <M0TVU> I mean if I call my palyload M0TVU because that's it's name then why should it matter
[13:21] <aie93> the chase car is in the right place
[13:21] <fsphil> winds above 18km are blowing west HixWork, it may come back in
[13:21] <mfa298> damn, was trying to run a prediction but looks like the predictor cant get the gfs data :(
[13:21] <fsphil> yea NOAA is broke
[13:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> iain_G4SGX, tks for copy of email by the way looks interesting ..
[13:22] <craag> 34km burst altitude?
[13:22] <HixWork> fsphil, its only going up as 2.3m/s
[13:22] <M0TVU> Is something flying?
[13:22] <M0TVU> I'm missing it?
[13:22] <HixWork> and currently ar ~16.5
[13:22] <fsphil> it should still get to that altitude
[13:22] <craag> 950g payload, 2.2m/s ascent, hwoyee 1000 gives 33794m burst.
[13:22] <x-f> i think it will turn back to west at higher altitude just like PE2G's sonde has done
[13:22] <aie93> earlier prediction (before launch)http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=87915a33682b44b8913fa061a3645267e62a14aa
[13:23] <craag> Ok, so it will turn back.
[13:23] <iain_G4SGX> Geoff-G8DHE: Yeh, even a refusal with reasons or conditions is a start. The RSGB guy have a VHF bandplan meeting or summut with Ofcom soon, gonna bring it up see what happens.
[13:24] <x-f> aie93, you planned for such a low ascent rate?
[13:24] <fsphil> that would be very cool
[13:24] <aie93> planned for 2.7 apparently
[13:24] <Darkside> even if they allow just a small segment of the band that'd be fine
[13:24] <Darkside> like, if you guys have an experimental section
[13:24] <Darkside> that'd be perfect
[13:24] <UpuWork> what balloon is it ?
[13:24] <Darkside> 1000g hwoyee
[13:24] <UpuWork> interesting
[13:24] <craag> iain_G4SGX: Are they asking about 2m or 70cm?
[13:24] <mfa298> this seems a lot further east than that prediction suggests
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[13:25] <iain_G4SGX> Geoff-G8DHE: They think 2M is better as is primary.
[13:25] <craag> 2m would be better. I'm trying to put a 2.5W ERP repeater on 70cm and having no luck, so I doubt you'd get that.
[13:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> TudorGrange: Is that really its position on the map or .... ?
[13:26] <mfa298> starting to turn ? (need more data really)
[13:27] <gonzo__> the prob with 70cm is that everything has to be vetted by the MoD
[13:27] <Darkside> you guys dont have a lot of bandwidth on 2m though do you
[13:27] <Darkside> see if you can get 23cm too
[13:27] <M0TVU> Im confused - is Tudor grange really flying? Is the chase vehicle just down the road?
[13:27] <craag> No, although we might be getting more soon..
[13:27] <Darkside> that'd be nice for ATV experiments
[13:27] <Darkside> oh you guys might be getting the full 144-148?
[13:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> 2Mteres is currently 144-146 and maybe increasing
[13:27] <craag> yep
[13:27] <Darkside> noice
[13:27] <Darkside> we have that here
[13:27] <gonzo__> I put in a submission to rsgb, for their reviews, asking for permission to use airborn tx.
[13:27] <Darkside> pagers are 148-149 here
[13:28] <craag> with .5MHz DATV channel
[13:28] <Darkside> oh wat
[13:28] <Darkside> on 2m
[13:28] <craag> yeah
[13:28] <Darkside> srs
[13:28] <Darkside> wtf
[13:28] <gonzo__> 23cm we are 2ndary users again
[13:28] <craag> Why, would be good I reckon!
[13:28] <Darkside> couldnt you guys do with the voice bandwidth
[13:28] <Darkside> oh well
[13:28] <Darkside> we have 440-450 for ATV here
[13:28] <M0TVU> Yeah 2m is sooo crowded here.
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[13:28] <fsphil> oh they're thinking of increasing the 2m band?
[13:28] <gonzo__> there are request going un for allocations at 40 and 60MHz aand more at 70MHz
[13:29] <Darkside> all of our repeaters are 146-148
[13:29] <gonzo__> it's a bit of the spectrum that no-one wants
[13:29] <craag> 2m is almost empty here.
[13:29] <iain_G4SGX> We shall see, took the sneaky route and brought it up on the CDXC reflector. Lots of very old and influential old boys on there. Got the interest of the ex RSGB VHF manager who CC'd it.
[13:29] <fsphil> here too
[13:29] <mfa298> I think 2m varies depending where you are, most of the time there doesn't seem to be much happening down here (apart from repeaters - when they're not shutdown)
[13:29] <gonzo__> DATV at 40-60mhz would be uber cool
[13:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes adding 1Mhz possibly 2Mhz but likly toloose some on 2.4GHz
[13:29] <Darkside> i guess you guys wont ever get 440-450
[13:29] <Darkside> or 420-430
[13:29] <craag> no
[13:29] <Darkside> mm
[13:30] <Darkside> we lost 420-430 at the start of the year
[13:30] <craag> car key fobs are stopping any new stuff there.
[13:30] <Darkside> now we have 430-450
[13:30] <gonzo__> UHF is saleable. The low VHF bands they just can;t even giove away
[13:30] <fsphil> there are handheld radios on 446 mhz here
[13:30] <fsphil> license-exempt
[13:30] <Darkside> ahh
[13:30] <fsphil> and business radio has a few frequencies around there
[13:30] <Darkside> yeah
[13:30] <Darkside> land-mpbile
[13:31] <Darkside> mobile*
[13:31] <Darkside> anyways, airborne 23cm woudl be nice
[13:31] <Darkside> can do decent ATV there
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[13:31] <craag> We're losing most of 23cm+ bands.
[13:32] <craag> Possibly getting some big primary allocations up around 10GHz though I think.
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> Have all of the analog TV allocations been reused?
[13:32] <craag> Almost.
[13:33] <craag> But that's very valuable space.
[13:33] <Darkside> im still waiting for 60m here
[13:33] <Darkside> damn useful band
[13:34] <Darkside> usable NVIS for 3/4 of the day
[13:34] <fsphil> you still need an NoV for that band in the UK I think?
[13:35] <Darkside> i thought you had set channels?
[13:35] <mfa298> fsphil: pretty sure 60m is NoV still although I don't think it's hard to get a NoV
[13:35] <mfa298> and they've opened up more frequencies
[13:35] <craag> It is NoV
[13:36] <Darkside> i guess each country really can do things different on 60m
[13:36] <Darkside> since its very much lcoal
[13:36] <Darkside> local*
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[13:36] <iain_G4SGX> I got an NOV for 60, worked USA on it once, dx is possible
[13:37] <iain_G4SGX> rarely though
[13:37] <M0TVU> 5mhz is set channels now. You still need to apply for an NOV but it takes 30 seconds
[13:37] <refzz> what's wrong with habhub predictor?
[13:37] <Darkside> NOAA model data unavailable
[13:37] <Darkside> due to NOAA website being shit
[13:38] <refzz> sad but true
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[13:38] <GW8RAK> 60m is now small band segments up to 12KHz wide, so no longer channelised
[13:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> TudorGrange: whats happening with this ?
[13:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> 434.650 is it normal power levels etc.?
[13:40] <iain_G4SGX> Green finally
[13:40] <mfa298> its on 434.650 but I suspect the emitted power is down compared to other flights
[13:40] <iain_G4SGX> Think its a fair bit further west somehow
[13:41] <craag> They said something about the payload being flipped on launch!?
[13:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> right that sort of makes sense, and the shown position is wrong ?
[13:41] <iain_G4SGX> It was centered on Birmingham before launch
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[13:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> but something about using a dipole so nothing aimed downwards ?
[13:42] <Lunar_LanderU> hi Geoff-G8DHE, got a short question
[13:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> fire away
[13:42] <Lunar_LanderU> can I use a screenshot of your Google Earth plot of my flight in my flight report?
[13:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes please do or download the image if you want, I always use copyright but as I say in the text no problem for anybodt to use in relation to HAB work.
[13:44] <iain_G4SGX> I also got a short question. The Max 6Q module, I'm querying it with UBX not NMEA. Does it give the lang and long back in that wierd NMEA format or something more sensible ?
[13:44] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah I would give the URL and your name as a source
[13:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> That's fine, if you want any other views please shout as well, happy to provide.
[13:45] <gonzo__> we won't ever get 23cm airborne. As it's shared with CAA radar. And we suspect that the CAA have sort ofb forgotten that we are there at all.
[13:45] <x-f> iain_G4SGX, UBX gives the normal decimal format coordinates
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[13:46] <iain_G4SGX> Cool, perfect.
[13:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> I doubt that they have forgotten! They use a couple of repeaters as markers!
[13:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> just finished boxing a Dongle and HABAMP for use in the vehicle http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/HABAMP_and_DONGLE/index.php?ind=3
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[13:47] <UpuWork> nice and tidy geoff
[13:48] <gonzo__> There were a few incidents where amateurrs were ablut to start officially complaining about some radars that had gone noisy. But instead it was filtered back quietly to the nats tech people. So some points were earned without popping our head above the parapet
[13:48] <Lunar_LanderU> Geoff-G8DHE: thanks :)
[13:48] <UpuWork> predictor wouldn't be a bad idea..
[13:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup so I gather ;-) Yes I wanted the ability to use as a straght DOngle for other bands, but didn't want the cost of a relay!
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[13:52] <iain_G4SGX> I need to buy a notebook/laptop for chasing, any recommendations for cheap and long battery? All the 12 power supplies I've tried are switch mode and noisy as hell.
[13:52] <Lunar_LanderU> I got a ThinkPad T23 and for that I bought one of those cigarette lighter power supplys by Trust
[13:53] <Lunar_LanderU> and that worked quite good
[13:53] <mattbrejza> tablet :-P
[13:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> I've been using the Maplin 12volt 120Watt supply in the Camper no problem other than making sure not to flatten the leisure battery ;-)
[13:53] <HixWork> Thinkpad X series s/h try jw@edgeuk.net he gets ex corporate ones
[13:53] <HixWork> paid 260 for my X201 >4hrs std batt
[13:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> and its been running when tracking
[13:53] <HixWork> X60s on ebay will be cheap
[13:53] <Lunar_LanderU> the battery or the whole computer?
[13:54] <iain_G4SGX> whole computer. My 12V inverter thing wipes out HF, maybe OK at VHF
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[13:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.maplin.co.uk/120w-auto-voltage-laptop-adaptor-with-usb-charging-531311
[13:55] <iain_G4SGX> Bought an FT857 and spent first hour wondering why I could only hear noise til I unplugged it
[13:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> sorry wrong link its this one http://www.maplin.co.uk/120w-auto-voltage-car-air-laptop-adaptor-with-usb-charging-socket-614037
[13:56] <iain_G4SGX> <Geoff-G8DHE> Have you tried it / Is it noisy?
[13:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> Works fine for me, using the devices that are now in the box here http://www.maplin.co.uk/120w-auto-voltage-car-air-laptop-adaptor-with-usb-charging-socket-614037
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[13:57] <craag> VHF NFD last year, unplugged my laptop from 12V charger on the sunday, 2m rig at other end of the tent dropped 3 s-points of noise..
[13:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> only tried on 70cms however not had the time to tune a massive range but nothing visible on 2m or FM broadcast band
[13:58] <iain_G4SGX> Bet you were popular! I'm operating 70Mhz CW on Sunday hopefully
[13:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> that's using an MSI laptop 8 core device that takes a bit of power.
[13:59] <iain_G4SGX> <Geoff-G8DHE> What laptop you using it on?
[13:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> Hangon I'll find a link to the pr4cise one
[14:00] <fsphil> craag: ooch
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[14:00] <Lunar_LanderU> no I meant HixWork , if the X60 battery is cheap or the whole laptop
[14:00] <fsphil> older thinkpads are a great price atm
[14:00] <gonzo__> tried using an sdr-iq on the IF when running a 23cm contest statiosn once. The laptop psu noise got through to the 10.7 and killed everything
[14:00] <gonzo__> iain_G4SGX, I'm up with G4RFR over the weekend
[14:01] <gonzo__> we do quite well on 4mtrs
[14:01] <HixWork> Lunar_LanderU, x60s they are cheap - china batteries run about £35 for the 9 cell [7 hours]
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[14:01] <fsphil> balloon is above my horizon, but no signal. definitely well down
[14:01] <aie93> Thanks for receiving upu...
[14:01] <UpuWork> welcome
[14:01] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[14:01] <aie93> where are you phil?
[14:01] Nick change: UpuWork -> Upu_M0UPU
[14:02] <craag> iain_G4SGX: Won't hear you then, no-one in our young student club does CW unfortuntely.
[14:02] <fsphil> wait, I tell a lie. the slightest trace on the waterfall now
[14:02] <Upu_M0UPU> going to have to go into a meeting soon though
[14:02] <fsphil> aie93: n.ireland
[14:02] <fsphil> I've got the two rtty lines
[14:02] <aie93> It's a dipole onboard so sideways tx will be very poor
[14:02] <fsphil> but much too weak to decode
[14:02] <craag> aie93: What orientation is the dipole in?
[14:02] <gonzo__> horizontal dipole?
[14:02] <aie93> i keep getting it and loosing it, yagi while in a mini bus is nion impossible
[14:02] <GW8RAK> Horizotnal or vertical?
[14:02] <aie93> horizonal, yep
[14:02] <craag> please not h
[14:02] <craag> oh
[14:02] <GW8RAK> Could explain
[14:03] <gonzo__> not good, fo all the reasons that are about to erruopt onto the chan!
[14:03] <GW8RAK> lol
[14:03] <aie93> shouldn't have said anything :)
[14:03] <fsphil> hah
[14:03] Action: craag frowns and turns his yagi 90 degrees...
[14:03] <fsphil> the signal seems quite choppy
[14:03] <aie93> although I've hit beadrock now, so can't dig any deeper
[14:03] <mfa298> that could explain the signal fading
[14:03] <iain_G4SGX> I'm the only CW freak in our group, mostly SSB. Listen out for G6IPU/P.. http://www.qrz.com/db/G6IPU
[14:04] <gonzo__> the spin modulation will be nasty
[14:04] <aie93> did not even consider that
[14:04] <mfa298> I'm not sure it's worth rotating my dipole as it will be in the null
[14:04] <GW8RAK> Should be good right underneath it
[14:04] <aie93> it's amazing it's been tracked so reliably by ubu - what rig have you got up there?
[14:04] <gonzo__> you will only get a steady signal if using a circular polarised rx ant, from right below it
[14:04] <fsphil> iain_G4SGX: I'm gonna be doing rtty and psk this weekend
[14:04] <fsphil> so I'm totally expecting 0 contacts :)
[14:05] <craag> fsphil: We might try some data overnight if things get quiet.
[14:05] <gonzo__> I think all modes will count in the contest. But doubt may stations will be geared up for data phil
[14:05] <iain_G4SGX> Not sure of the rules, is it extra points per mode ?
[14:05] <craag> no
[14:06] <gonzo__> think just pts/km on each band
[14:06] <craag> yep
[14:06] <fsphil> if any of you have a massivly high gain system on 70cm or 2m, we should try olivia or dominoex
[14:06] <fsphil> or that jt mode
[14:06] <fsphil> go for meteor scatter
[14:06] <Darkside> how active is 2m SSB in the UK?
[14:06] <Darkside> its dead here
[14:06] <fsphil> outside of contests, dead here
[14:06] <iain_G4SGX> I been experimenting with the new JT9
[14:06] <fsphil> during contests, maybe two or three stations in n.ireland
[14:06] <Darkside> mm
[14:06] <mfa298> I've only heard a few people calling cq during contests on 2m ssb
[14:07] <craag> fsphil: I'd be up for trying it on 70cm overnight, we'll have a 15 ele yagi at 160m asl with masthead preamp.
[14:07] <Darkside> last contest i got >2000 points on FM alone
[14:07] <Darkside> only made 1 SSB contact
[14:07] <aie93> I've never noticed anyone on 2m SSB
[14:07] <aie93> all FM
[14:07] <iain_G4SGX> We dpo quite well on 70cms as were on the coast, won 2 years ago on that band
[14:07] <mfa298> the few times I've tried calling cq on ssb there's been no response - although often the same on fm as well
[14:07] <fsphil> craag: nice! I can head up the big hill here
[14:07] <fsphil> I guess there's a chance of aircraft scatter
[14:07] <iain_G4SGX> Few EME contacts and you've won! lol
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[14:08] <fsphil> hah
[14:08] <gonzo__> hehe, satellites don't count, even natural ones
[14:08] <fsphil> aww
[14:08] <fsphil> what's the difference from refracting of the atmosphere vs. a big lump of metal or rock in space? :)
[14:08] <craag> fsphil: Oh not much power on 70cm though, only a 20W rig. Can do 100W on 2m into 18ele.
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[14:09] <fsphil> 20W here too
[14:09] <gonzo__> the east coast is the place to bee for the higher bands.
[14:09] <craag> Got W. Ireland on that setup at 4am last year.
[14:09] <iain_G4SGX> Well, I'm just gonna try and not be too wasted, I find beer an integral part of my operating criteria.
[14:09] <gonzo__> 4mtrs is becoming interesting with the eu statiosn getting on.
[14:09] <aie93> never even tried 4m - i'll give it a go at some point maybe
[14:09] <gonzo__> wx is good, so wonder if any spE will happen?
[14:10] <Tramvai> What is the most common and approved way of powering the Arduino on the flight? 6xAA Li-ion?
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[14:10] <fsphil> energizer lithium batteries Tramvai
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[14:10] <fsphil> they're not rechargable
[14:10] <gonzo__> contest=beer. That is one of the basic equations of physics!
[14:11] <craag> fsphil: Not sure you can sched contacts in the contest, but could set up some digital for giggles anyway if you're around.
[14:11] <aie93> hey - that's one think we got right - the batteries :)
[14:11] <fsphil> craag: certainly
[14:11] <fsphil> I'll be online when I'm up the hill
[14:11] <Tramvai> Are they expensive?
[14:11] <fsphil> I got some from Tesco a while back, £5 for 4
[14:11] <fsphil> AA's
[14:12] <Tramvai> Alright
[14:12] <fsphil> the price does vary a bit
[14:12] <fsphil> but you can use the cheap ones for testing
[14:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> Sry for delay I had shut VNC down when out and about its an MSI -MS-16G5
[14:12] <fsphil> then keep the lithiums for the flight
[14:12] <Tramvai> Of course, thanks .:)
[14:12] <gonzo__> the energiser batts are about half the weight of the equiv alkaline
[14:12] <Tramvai> And to power the board, do you use 6xAA case?
[14:12] <iain_G4SGX> fsphil: Up the hill?
[14:12] <Tramvai> That should give you... 9V
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[14:13] <fsphil> 6xAA would power a 5V system well
[14:13] <aie93> 4xAA is fine though in my experience - not that it means anything after today :)
[14:13] <fsphil> 4xAA if you can run everything at 3.3v
[14:13] <fsphil> and may do 5V too
[14:14] <Tramvai> Hmm, both the uBlox and the temperature sensor want 5V
[14:14] <gonzo__> getting clost to the limit. And the vreg drop
[14:14] <Ugi> do you know the voltage of a fully charged energizer Li?
[14:14] <Ugi> Just wondering for my voltage monitoring
[14:14] <aie93> Think they output about 1.6v
[14:14] <Ugi> OK - perfect.
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[14:17] <aie93> Don't think they drop their voltage very quickly either
[14:17] <fsphil> they're quite steady until nearly flat
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[14:17] <iain_G4SGX> <Geoff-G8DHE> Thanks Geoff, will look it up
[14:17] <fsphil> then they're like dropping of a cliff
[14:17] <Ugi> OK, well that makes monitoring them a bit less useful
[14:18] <Ugi> but I may as well do so.
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[14:18] <fsphil> yea, best thing is to do a full test run, see how long they last on the ground
[14:19] <Ugi> I've been running of alkalines at the moment and they last _hours_ so I don't think it's an issue
[14:19] <fsphil> nope
[14:19] <Ugi> But I might give it a soak-test in the freezer
[14:19] <Ugi> with Lis
[14:19] <Tramvai> http://dx.com/p/65273 Does anyone use this for their project?
[14:19] <Ugi> It's all running at 3v3 on switching reg' and takes around 100ma
[14:19] <Tramvai> Seems like a great way to put all the modules into one package
[14:20] <Ugi> which should give around 20 hours
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[14:20] <fsphil> I'd strongy suggest not using Breadboard
[14:20] <fsphil> at all
[14:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> Got it from CPC last year, the only one which had a Matte screen, decent processor 8 core @2.2GHz and 8Gb memory, battery life is short at 2 hours but hence Maplin psu.
[14:20] <fsphil> but espeically not in flight
[14:20] <Tramvai> How come? What are the alternatives?
[14:20] <fsphil> stripboard, solder :)
[14:20] <fsphil> breadboard is horrible. bad connections, sensitive to vibration, things falling out
[14:20] <Tramvai> Ah
[14:21] <Ugi> Tramvai: have you seen the stratodean blog?
[14:21] <Tramvai> No, no I have not
[14:21] <fsphil> many a test payload built on breadboard have had really odd behaviour, which turned out to be the breadboard itself
[14:21] <Ugi> http://www.stratodean.co.uk/
[14:21] <Ugi> they use Arduino + stripboard
[14:22] <Ugi> & the blog posts are pretty useful
[14:22] <iain_G4SGX> Heard good things about MSI, their new laptops sell out quick but its all about RF noise & battery life for me.
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[14:23] <Tramvai> Thanks :)
[14:23] <Ugi> is the rf noise from my little switching reg (6v -> 3v3) likely to cause GPS issues?
[14:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes been very pleased with it, for me cores and memory (I think it might take 16Gb) are critical for processing Pano's in the field.
[14:23] <Ugi> It's fine on the ground
[14:23] <Ugi> As far as I can tell
[14:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> also having lots of cores means you can run multi channel on the radio easily as well!
[14:25] <Tramvai> Ugi: Just need a confirmation: proto- and stripboard are the same thing, yeah?
[14:25] <fsphil> protoboard may not have the strips
[14:25] <fsphil> I think it's just a grid of solder points, you have to add the wires
[14:26] <fsphil> which would be fine too
[14:26] <gonzo__> strip board/vero has a matrix of holes and strips of coller running end to end
[14:26] <fsphil> stripboard might be easier
[14:26] <Tramvai> Ah
[14:26] <Ugi> Tramvai: I think fsphil is right, some protoboard is "perfbpoard" which typically just has a circular pad for each hole.
[14:26] <fsphil> so you cut the trackers where you need too, rather than having to wire everything manually
[14:27] <iain_G4SGX> Well, I estimate my first Balloon computer, Strato-Naaarfolk, or SNARF will be ready for testing in about 4 weeks.
[14:27] <gonzo__> there are versions of vero with copper strips that mathc the prototyping block as well
[14:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=33u-46SFRNuAxM&tbnid=AJlJW8dn20hU7M:&ved=&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parallax.com%2Ftabid%2F162%2FProductID%2F682%2FList%2F0%2FDefault.aspx&ei=D4bVUeDPO4XtPPT-gaAB&psig=AFQjCNFpKAi8mPoTBQ-9OfouaYzud4rlaQ&ust=1373034384112544 http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Equipment/Stripboard-25-X-64mm-34-0500/?source=googleps&utm_source=googleps&gclid=CIfYz_WFlrgCFXMRtAod8XwAbw
[14:27] <gonzo__> match
[14:27] <fsphil> you get 100 HAB points for the name iain_G4SGX
[14:27] <gonzo__> ouch
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[14:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oops the text missed out two links above first Proto second Strip
[14:28] <craag> fsphil: Just realised we're down as Low Power for 70cm, so can't run the 70cm side on contest overnight anyway. We'll have to try this digital malarky :)
[14:30] <Maxell> what freq is TudorGrange?
[14:30] <aie93> 434.650
[14:30] <aie93> USB RTTY 50 7n2
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[14:31] <aie93> Having to head back to solihull to drop off the kids, hope that we can manage to get back out again before it drops below the horizon of upu
[14:31] <Maxell> k
[14:31] <PE2G> I have a weak signal on 434.6513
[14:31] <fsphil> craag: what's the limit for low power?
[14:32] <aie93> I'm getting an amazing signal driving away from it!
[14:32] <craag> fsphil: 25W, and no more than 16 hours operation in the 24 hours.
[14:32] <aie93> helps when I don't kick the radio though
[14:32] <fsphil> oh they limit the time too
[14:32] <fsphil> I really need to read the rules
[14:32] <aie93> I didn't know about the time limit either
[14:33] <aie93> generally what's the most that people stick on HAB?
[14:33] <aie93> I assume it's usually no more than ~10mW
[14:33] <craag> On a hab you're only allowed 10mW.
[14:33] <Tramvai> http://goo.gl/HRUcL Is this the droid I'm looking for?
[14:33] <Maxell> *It's pretty darn weak but
[14:33] <Maxell> I can see it!
[14:33] <craag> We're talking about the Ham radio VHF National Field day this weekend.
[14:34] <craag> - contest.
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[14:34] <aie93> Oh, cool
[14:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes that strip board or veroboard
[14:34] <fsphil> yea, sadly you can't use amateur radio in the air in the UK (at the moment at least)
[14:34] <Tramvai> Thanks
[14:34] <aie93> I always work weekends (and most weekdays!) so I never manage to get on the air much let alone for contests
[14:35] <aie93> and yet you can for sat... I assume there's a cut-off at a certain altitue?
[14:35] <fsphil> satellites are exempt
[14:35] <Maxell> $DelorGr`nfd-4$14z35:7<+=261.Xw92 :P
[14:35] <fsphil> Delor ... ian? :)
[14:35] <craag> I'm more of a projects person than being on net nights, but portable contests are fun to do :)
[14:36] <fsphil> yea I do contests occasionally
[14:36] <fsphil> never chat :)
[14:36] <aie93> Has anyone tried getting a hab to stay up in a certain location for an extended period before?
[14:36] <aie93> kinda like a sat (but obviously not in orbit)
[14:37] <fsphil> they can be made to float
[14:37] <fsphil> but the position relative to ground is up to the winds
[14:37] <fsphil> there's not much you can do about that sadly
[14:37] <fsphil> by float I mean they keep the same altitude
[14:37] <fsphil> at least until dawn, then they tend to burst
[14:38] <mattbrejza> is the power on this thing lower than usual?
[14:38] <fsphil> very much so mattbrejza
[14:38] <craag> mattbrejza: Horizontal dipole antenna as well..
[14:38] <mattbrejza> oh :/
[14:38] <Maxell> $$TudorGrange,549, \o/
[14:38] <aie93> ah, so the heat has an effect - obviously
[14:38] <Maxell> But thats most of the readable stuff.
[14:39] <Maxell> jarod: you could try this one too...
[14:39] <mfa298> horizontal dipole probably makes up half the weak signal effect (around 20dB from what I remember for being the wrong polaristation)
[14:39] <aie93> Lots of good learning (that you could have told me before hand)
[14:39] <Maxell> jarod: 434.65 MHz, 50 baud RTTY 7N2.
[14:39] <jarod> country? not in browser?
[14:40] <aie93> Midlands, England
[14:40] <Maxell> It's in the UK :-)
[14:40] <mfa298> would be interesting to hear from anyone normally using a horizontal antenna to track to see if they think it's stronger/weaker than normal
[14:40] <Maxell> I can see/hear it from the Hague.
[14:40] <fsphil> aie93: any details of the payload?
[14:40] <jarod> lemme try
[14:40] <Maxell> Disclaimer: it's pretty weak :P
[14:41] <GW8RAK> A horizontal rx aerial isn't going to make much difference unless the dipole is perpendicular to it. End on, it will be pretty weak
[14:42] <Maxell> Grmbl http://i.imgur.com/n2n9Ecn.png
[14:42] <jarod> 50 baud RTTY 7N2. <-- how do i set that?
[14:42] <aie93> Click configure
[14:42] <aie93> or you can go to browse all
[14:42] <Maxell> <not autoconfigure>
[14:43] <aie93> then all payloads
[14:43] <Maxell> jarod: or rightclick on the bottem left "RTTY".
[14:43] <fsphil> yea the payload is in the All Payloads (testing) bit
[14:43] <PE2G> Dist is 490 km, clear traces, but signal to weak for green decodes, and local QRM doesn't help either
[14:43] <jarod> DOM it still says
[14:43] <aie93> if you're not in RTTY then you have to click op mode
[14:43] <Maxell> PE2G: it's just very weak here http://i.imgur.com/n2n9Ecn.png
[14:43] <aie93> the rtty
[14:43] <aie93> *then
[14:43] <jarod> 7N2 where that?
[14:44] <mattbrejza> 7 means data bits
[14:44] <fsphil> 7-bit ASCII
[14:44] <mattbrejza> 2 means stop bits (but this can be ignored)
[14:44] <aie93> click rtty then custom
[14:44] <aie93> you can change the settings in there
[14:44] <jarod> no signal here :/
[14:45] <mfa298> GW8RAK: I was wondering if part of the weak signal is due to the payload having a horizonal dipole, in which case the trackers with a horizontal antenna might see a stronger signal than normal (at least when the payload is pointing in the right way for them)
[14:45] <PE2G> Maxell: Have you seen green decodes?
[14:45] <jarod> Maxell you use your discone?
[14:45] <aie93> I'm always surprised with the quality of my £10 eBay whip
[14:46] <aie93> the cable is a crazy narrow gauge too!
[14:47] <jarod> 7N2 7 ascii, none, 2 stop bits?
[14:47] <Maxell> PE2G: no green decodes yet :P
[14:47] <jarod> Maxell screenshot of config?
[14:47] <Maxell> jarod: no, a 2m/70cm colinair with habamp.
[14:48] <jarod> why not in auto config? cant someone add it?
[14:48] <aie93> it's on there under the all payloads
[14:48] <jarod> ah
[14:48] <jarod> which one?
[14:49] <Maxell> jarod: http://i.imgur.com/If8SYnx.png
[14:50] <Maxell> jarod: http://i.imgur.com/gkFVKGa.png
[14:51] <jarod> ya found that, via your first :)
[14:51] <Maxell> :P
[14:51] <Maxell> jarod: here is a pick of the antenna we use for HABs. https://revspace.nl/images/0/05/SaZOJpU.png
[14:51] <Maxell> Dedicated habtenna :P
[14:51] <mfa298> hmmm, is that ascent rate slowing ?
[14:51] <jarod> you have adjusted shift?
[14:52] <aie93> looks like it - does that usually happen?
[14:52] <jarod> Maxell you have NONE instead of USB next to the green numbers
[14:52] <jarod> makes a difference?
[14:53] <Maxell> jarod: no, thats for trancrievers that you can hook up w/ serial
[14:53] <Ugi> Ascent rate tends to slow you it reaches the elastic limit of the latex - now will it burst or float?
[14:53] <Maxell> so you can use dl-fldigi to controll your (hardware) radio.
[14:53] <aie93> it's sped up again now
[14:53] <jarod> ok
[14:53] <Maxell> Is it supposed to float?
[14:53] <aie93> It's not *supposed* to :)
[14:54] <Maxell> Signal looking stronger now :P
[14:54] <mfa298> it got really strong for me just now (I alsmost got a complete string) but it's gone again
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[14:54] <jarod> how can you read freq on te page?
[14:54] <Ugi> burst
[14:54] <mfa298> spacenearus shows burst
[14:54] <aie93> looks like it
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[14:55] <jarod> How can i find freq of TudorGrange on website?
[14:55] <Maxell> jarod: this flight wasn't planned it seems. It's not on the http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=TudorGrange map
[14:55] <jarod> but how to know freq?
[14:55] <fsphil> ah busrt
[14:56] <eroomde> ask someone
[14:56] <HixWork> what was predicted burst?
[14:56] <Upu_M0UPU> no idea
[14:56] <Upu_M0UPU> I just guessed
[14:56] <Upu_M0UPU> aie93 head for Spalding best speed
[14:56] <aie93> we were aiming for 30,0000
[14:56] <fsphil> 23km is a bit low
[14:56] <aie93> *-0
[14:56] <fsphil> er, 29km
[14:56] <Maxell> jarod: I just asked in channel here :P
[14:56] <Upu_M0UPU> 29km
[14:56] <jarod> Maxell i got it
[14:56] <Maxell> It's 434.65 mhz btw
[14:56] Action: fsphil goes back to reading school
[14:56] <jarod> on my dvb-t antenna!
[14:57] <aie93> Going to grab my car and head there as fast as possible
[14:57] <Maxell> oh wow
[14:57] <Maxell> jarod: a good decode?
[14:57] <aie93> hope it will text me
[14:57] <Ugi> aiming for 30K then 29076 is not a bad attempt!
[14:57] <fsphil> aah, gsm backup
[14:57] <fsphil> lets hope it lands somewhere with a signal :)
[14:57] <jarod> its fading away
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[14:57] <Upu_M0UPU> ok I have to go afk
[14:57] <jarod> just was great briefly
[14:57] <fsphil> aie93: are you anywhere near it?
[14:58] <fsphil> cause if you're still in birmingham, you've a long way to go :)
[14:58] <aie93> No where near it because we have a bug full of kids we have to drop off
[14:58] <aie93> hopefully it will text me if that works :S
[14:59] <jarod> Maxell: TuorGrange497,1:56:4,+524356831,+000341717,2107.5,,,27.V049Y3,193X8.5*DB9 $TDobGrafge9814:<7:\,+51$.61l89,GA`-{205o<204.3,,1Gw_p6-22*4,C}'ORR_p<I060~L*42W*?60$\A4V27*6AFF
[14:59] <jarod> Wsg+$$TuDO`_N~,600,q69S+#]5Y43n019,+008N,7l06,D{37.37O3]642,18>55*827Fiwx=rorGrange,60<*68:18,+5243n|240,+00[8}6,1874,,,N3{36{,105.-2DA228pnge,>2,14:4n#0,+5c78440,+00043.51505,18r94W9lrf/O!<P;~
[14:59] <jarod> :P
[14:59] <fsphil> aie93: that's a bit risky :)
[14:59] <Maxell> jarod: thats neat!
[15:00] <jarod> $$Tudorange,6/959:51,+`KK;lp3.14327,16823.6,VZ0,09679V1!9?W53*2EC3
[15:00] <jarod> first red one :)
[15:00] <GW8RAK> mfa298, sorry for slow response. Yes, it should make a difference if the payload aerial is at right angles to the RX aerial. I tried to decode a vertical payload with a horizontal 21 ele yagi and the gain of the aerial was cancelled out by the polarisation loss, 20dB
[15:01] <iain_G4SGX> HixWork: Thinkpad on its way, 201 for £290 including delivery, tnx for the tip.
[15:01] <Maxell> Still falling very fast.
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[15:01] <aie93> I was thinking that
[15:01] <aie93> far too fast for my linking
[15:01] <Maxell> Oh, it's improving now \o/
[15:02] <mfa298> that descent speed will improve. There's not much air up there for the parachute to work with
[15:02] <aie93> hope the parachute hasn't tangled
[15:02] <mfa298> I think in the past someone has suggested 20m/s at 20km is a reasonable speed - not sure how that translates to 15km though
[15:03] <PE2G> 15 km -> 15 m/s
[15:03] <aie93> fallen to 17m/s now
[15:03] <Ugi> at least a fast fall will keep it out of the sea!
[15:04] <Seejjay> Afternoon, Is there any frequency I can tune to so that I can do a test decode of a signal with dl-fldigi. I have a FunCube Pro+ and I would just like to see that my setup is in fact working. (Other than receiving Radio 2!) Live down in Basingstoke. TIA
[15:04] <aie93> yes!!!
[15:04] <aie93> You can try, but it's a terrible signal :)
[15:04] <aie93> 434.650 USB
[15:04] <Maxell> mfa298: I know the drill. But it was taking so long :-)
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[15:04] <aie93> transferring vechicles now...
[15:04] <jarod> Maxell sheer concidence the dvb-t atenna was directed towards the balloon
[15:04] <mfa298> Seejjay: there's a flight on 434.650 but it's coming down and a weak signal
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[15:04] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/konig-ant-uhf70-kn.jpg
[15:05] <Seejjay> aie93: tried that and got nothing here
[15:05] <Maxell> jarod: "directed"? on the right side of the house. hmm?
[15:05] <Seejjay> but then I am a reasonable distance away
[15:05] <Maxell> ah, like that :P
[15:06] <Maxell> You'd really use it for DVB-T?
[15:06] <jarod> 35cm band :)
[15:06] <jarod> but ya bbc dvb-t sometimes too
[15:06] <mfa298> Seejjay: you might find a whole load of normal ham communications on the 70cm band over the weekend as there's a contest happening (and possibly some flights at the weekend as well)
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[15:07] <Seejjay> I was thinking that, but am anxious to do it while quiet. iirc these contests seem to be very quick contacts/short bursts.
[15:07] <x-f> spacenearus shows a prediction at last
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[15:08] <Maxell> jarod: keep an eye on pirates in the headwphone band? :P
[15:08] <jarod> ya, know the guy that invented it :)
[15:09] <Maxell> lolololol
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[15:10] <jarod> slowly fading away now
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[15:14] <jarod> Maxell you still receive it?
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[15:16] <fsphil> Upu_M0UPU seems to be the last one decoding
[15:19] <fsphil> ah, G6GZH
[15:20] <fsphil> coming down quite fast
[15:20] <fsphil> nice open fields though
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[15:24] <fsphil> is that a huge greenhouse near the landing site?
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[15:24] <fsphil> any messages aie93?
[15:24] <fsphil> it should be down now
[15:25] <mfa298> data down to 1km, not bad.
[15:25] <aie93> just got a text
[15:25] <aie93> blown the fuse in my car so no GPS
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[15:25] <fsphil> what's the position?
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[15:26] <aie93> 52 46.16266 N, 000 20.47794 W
[15:26] <aie93> just got another one
[15:26] <aie93> 52 46.21570 N 000 20.20189 W
[15:26] <Ugi> For GSM backup, what network do you guys use?
[15:27] <Ugi> I was wondering whether I should use a foreign SIM 'cos they will pick up any network!
[15:27] <Lunar_LanderU> too low to track?
[15:28] <mfa298> I make that 52.7702616666, -0.336698166 in nicer numbers
[15:28] <aie93> good idea - we had an O2 in it
[15:28] <fsphil> yea
[15:28] <fsphil> in a field
[15:28] <ikarus> Ugi: uh, no, usually just a few specific ones
[15:28] <Upu_M0UPU> I'll put that on the map in a sec
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[15:28] <mfa298> not far off the predicted landing spot
[15:28] <fsphil> hey that's a sports field
[15:28] <Upu_M0UPU> actually no I won't
[15:29] <mattbrejza> the new google maps can understand NMEA gps format without any conversion :)
[15:29] <mfa298> Milking Nook Drove
[15:29] <Ugi> ikarus: do foreign networks have deals with specific UK nets then? I seem to be able to take any network when abroad.
[15:29] <ikarus> Ugi: yes they do
[15:29] <aie93> think it's being blown just got 52 46.21439 00020.19734
[15:29] <gonzo__> I did find a useful site that would do online NMEA plotting
[15:30] <fsphil> aie93: gps could be inaccurate due to the altitude
[15:30] <fsphil> it may vary a bit at first
[15:30] <gonzo__> you just pasted a block of NMWEA capture, set some filters and it would give a map
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[15:30] <gonzo__> (forget the url though... usefull eh!)
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[15:31] <HixWork> hmm another late chase? batteries going to hold out this time?
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[15:34] <Upu_M0UPU> well it slanded on a rugby field so if its moving its likely someone picked it up :)
[15:34] <jarod> maybe should make balloons with ads-b? :P http://x264.nl/dump/vrs-with-adsb-gp-radials-90degrees.jpg
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[15:35] <Upu_M0UPU> 1 Milking Nook Drove
[15:35] <Upu_M0UPU> Bourne, Lincolnshire PE10 0AX 
[15:37] <Jess--> what was the freq for this one?
[15:38] <db_g6gzh> 434.650
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[15:41] <jarod> Maxell next balloon you launch i can point dvb-t antenna your direction :)
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[15:43] <Jess--> I spent a while working in the scrapyard that is just over 2km ese of this balloons landing site, sorting metal parts after they had been through a crusher, most mind numbing job ever, good money though
[15:43] <Maxell> jarod: won't happen in near future, we need to get supplies
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[15:44] <jarod> you lost balloon?
[15:44] <Maxell> The explode...
[15:44] <jarod> :O
[15:45] <Maxell> Hence "burst" is when we call it as soon as it starts dropping back to earth
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[15:46] <Maxell> Floaters would be nice though, listening = fun
[15:47] <eroomde> for the first few years
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[15:57] <Laurenceb> lol eroomde
[15:57] <Laurenceb> im bored of hab
[15:57] <Laurenceb> nothing new for like 5 years
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> well, you could give guided descent a go.
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> :-)
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[16:00] <eroomde> Laurenceb: but this is UKHAS not UKHAB
[16:00] <eroomde> so there are always lots of new challenges
[16:00] <Laurenceb> indeed
[16:01] <Laurenceb> but lack of challengers
[16:02] <eroomde> well it's keeping me busy enough
[16:02] <Laurenceb> what you working on?
[16:03] <eroomde> rockets!
[16:03] <HixWork> SpeedEvil, is that like guided dissent :)
[16:03] <Willdude123> Hello
[16:03] <fsphil> explodatron 2000
[16:03] <eroomde> i hope it doesn't explode
[16:03] <eroomde> have yet to have one explode
[16:03] <fsphil> well, in a controlled mannor
[16:03] <eroomde> always a first time though granted
[16:03] <Willdude123> *manner
[16:04] <HixWork> manoir
[16:04] <fsphil> manor
[16:04] <fsphil> you never been in a controlled manor?
[16:04] <HixWork> heh
[16:04] <HixWork> au quait saisons
[16:04] <Laurenceb> http://www.sbit.com.tw/en/productsearch.aspx?_searchtext=SDSDQUA-128G-U46A
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[16:04] <eroomde> manoir au quatre hydrogens evec duex nitrogens
[16:05] <HixWork> le centre du partie
[16:05] <HixWork> des atoms
[16:05] <Laurenceb> cancer tiem
[16:05] <Laurenceb> hydrazine rockoon?
[16:06] <Laurenceb> now that would be something to get excited about
[16:06] <eroomde> sod involving balloons
[16:06] <eroomde> too much faff
[16:06] <Laurenceb> lol
[16:06] <eroomde> just build a bigger booster
[16:06] <HixWork> plasma soot burning steam driven 800A turbine bicyle rocket
[16:06] <HixWork> with a stand
[16:06] <Laurenceb> dahell
[16:06] <Laurenceb> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-F9XDt63TX_Y/UdSPxBO5ZKI/AAAAAAAAWSs/t3ep8PGeYSo/s638/dougtricycle.png
[16:06] <Laurenceb> ^like that?
[16:07] <HixWork> no thats just obree showing off. I'm thinking bigger just like a certain Mr R V-C
[16:07] <HixWork> woo hoo freedom time. bye
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[16:08] <Laurenceb> freedomzzz
[16:08] <eroomde> that's job satisfaction
[16:08] <fsphil> haha
[16:08] <fsphil> VB6 has a similar effect on people
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[16:11] <jarod> http://spacenear.us/tracker/ = burst at 1009m? TudorGrange
[16:11] <fsphil> burst at 29km
[16:11] <fsphil> last position was 1km up
[16:12] <jarod> ah, then fell to quick?
[16:12] <jarod> too
[16:12] <fsphil> it was rather fast
[16:13] <chrisstubbs> Does anyone know if its possible to use multiple step-up converters in parallel?
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> In general, maybe.
[16:13] <eroomde> also in with the specific and pragmatic answers
[16:13] <mattbrejza> only if they give an example of it in the applications guide
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> Current sharing between power supplies is in general an area where details matter
[16:14] <mattbrejza> often you need to sync them i think
[16:14] <Jess--> I wouldn't like to try it, manuf tolerences would mean that they would end up fighting with each other
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> Simple stuff like a resistor can help.
[16:14] <chrisstubbs> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tlv61225.pdf no mention of parallel use
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> Or several
[16:14] <jarod> so what is the main goal of these balloons?
[16:14] <Jess--> to fly
[16:14] <fsphil> lift a payload
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> jarod: Taking amusing pictures of cats.
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[16:14] <jarod> ok, so hobby, good :)
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately, this has so far been o limited success.
[16:15] <fsphil> well the main users are the met offices around the world
[16:15] <fsphil> cats and balloons don't mix well
[16:15] <Jess--> they do for amusing videos fsphil
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> You rub a balloon with a cat, and it is repelled, and rises much faster.
[16:16] <mattbrejza> chrisstubbs: why you wanting to parallel?
[16:16] <eroomde> i think putting them in parallel would be fine
[16:16] <eroomde> if you can run them from the same clock, good
[16:16] <eroomde> if not no biggy
[16:16] <eroomde> but try and put some decent output filtering on them
[16:16] <chrisstubbs> One on its own dosent seem to put out enough current
[16:16] <chrisstubbs> output drops down to 2.5v when I connect the tracker
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> In general.
[16:17] <eroomde> it's the beat frequencies between them that I suspect would cause headaches if there were headaches to be caused
[16:17] <eroomde> worth filtering the inputs too
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> If the raccuracy rating is considerably better than the variance under load, it generally shares well.
[16:17] <chrisstubbs> eroomde, so you think its worth a go? I will build up another independant circuit and put 10uf and 100nf decoupling caps on the input and output of each, then tie them together?
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[16:18] <eroomde> you'll basically get am-modulated ripple. you probably don't want this for anything rf or analogue
[16:18] <eroomde> you need more than just decoupling caps for filtering
[16:18] Nick change: si -> Guest56985
[16:18] <eroomde> you'll need an inductor and a capacitor
[16:18] <mattbrejza> ive decided from now on ill use capacitor only step ups when possible, inductor ones have fallen out of my fancy
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[16:19] <eroomde> inductor in series, cap to ground like a decoupling cap, and make their cutoff freq significantly lower than the psu's switching freq
[16:19] <chrisstubbs> Ok so basically a low pass filter
[16:20] <Willdude123> How come my rxed freq isn't 434.075? Which is what the ntx2 is labelled at?
[16:21] <mattbrejza> you need to tune a bit below the actual output freq for a start
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[16:21] <mattbrejza> and the input signal varies the frequency
[16:21] <eroomde> chrisstubbs: yes
[16:21] <mattbrejza> and not all crystals are 100% accurate
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> See page 9 of that datasheet 'operation at output overload'
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> I think this implies that yes, you can current share them - sort of.
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> What happens is that one chip goes into overload, drops its output voltage to the other ones voltage, but continues to supply maximum current.
[16:23] <chrisstubbs> Ok cool thanks eroomde :) Would I be lucky enought to be able to use a 4.7uF inductor for said filter, as thats all I have
[16:24] <eroomde> the cutoff frequecy is 1/2*pi*sqrt(L*C)
[16:24] <chrisstubbs> Ok cheers will work that out :)
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[16:29] <chrisstubbs> Just realised that uF should be a uH :P
[16:30] <eroomde> correctos
[16:31] <chrisstubbs> eroomde, would that formula give a result in Hz? (http://bit.ly/12JaUHS)
[16:31] <eroomde> yus
[16:31] <eroomde> that's what the 2*pi factor is for
[16:31] <eroomde> to convert from radians per second
[16:31] <chrisstubbs> Hmmmmm http://bit.ly/12JaUHS
[16:32] <chrisstubbs> 4.7uH 10uF
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[16:32] <eroomde> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=1/2*pi*sqrt(L*C)&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=1.0%2F(0.5*pi*sqrt(0.0000047*0.000010))&oq=1.0%2F(0.5*pi*sqrt(0.0000047*0.000010))&gs_l=serp.3...6210.8500.1.8828.,or.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=febdb5320ec5866&biw=1440&bih=814
[16:33] <chrisstubbs> Ah awesome thats more sensible thanks
[16:35] <Willdude123> Woah
[16:35] <Willdude123> Does the Rpi have serial pins?
[16:36] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, yes
[16:36] <Maxell> jarod: fun mostly. fun at building the lighest payload, most robust transmitter, best videos shot frm a balloon, or just listing to the signals... It's extrmly wide, from Arduino code to chopping away insulating foam
[16:36] <Willdude123> Would it be better to use that or my arduino?
[16:37] <Ugi> define _better_
[16:37] <Ugi> You can do more stuff with the RPi but you can do the basics more easily with an Arduino.
[16:38] <Willdude123> I guess I'd have to get different value resistors for the ntx2.
[16:39] <eroomde> also the raspi takes massively more power
[16:39] <chrisstubbs> And has a lot more ways to go wrong
[16:39] <eroomde> and it's harder to use i think, really
[16:41] <Willdude123> I think the yun is the perfect balance between th pi and the arduino.
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[16:42] <eroomde> perfect for what?
[16:43] <eroomde> there's not really such a thing as a 'balance' in any absolute sense, it completely depends on the application
[16:43] <Ugi> What is a Yun? Google is not helpful (unless it's a wookie).
[16:43] <eroomde> for a gps+ntx2 tracker anything that takes more than about 10mW as a microcontroller is just wasteful
[16:44] <eroomde> involving linux is completely mental
[16:44] <eroomde> just from the pov of looking at the actual amount of computation that needs to be done
[16:44] <Willdude123> Yeah. Wasn't really thinking of using for a flight.
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[16:45] <Ugi> from a computing PoV, my 8MHz '328 seems to have plenty left
[16:45] <eroomde> yep
[16:45] <eroomde> you could probably do it with just a 1mhz cpu
[16:46] <eroomde> and get enormously lower power consumption
[16:46] <Ugi> '328 power consumption is pretty immaterial in the balance of what I have
[16:46] <Willdude123> I wish I could use python on an arduino. C is good in some ways but Python doesn't make me headdesk repetetively.
[16:46] <eroomde> indeed
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[16:46] <eroomde> it's just the learning curve Willdude123
[16:46] <eroomde> it's a process
[16:46] <Willdude123> The Pi is the only option for ssdv really.
[16:46] <eroomde> you'll get through it
[16:46] <eroomde> Willdude123: nope
[16:47] <eroomde> nonsense
[16:47] <eroomde> fsphil first flew it on an atmega
[16:47] <Willdude123> Is there a better one?
[16:47] <Willdude123> Orly?
[16:47] <eroomde> which is the chip that arduinos use
[16:47] <eroomde> yep
[16:47] <Willdude123> Did he use a usb webcam?
[16:48] <Ugi> you would have to use something with more muscle than a '328 shirley
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[16:48] <eroomde> Ugi: clearly not
[16:49] <eroomde> it used a uart camera module with onboard jpegification
[16:49] <eroomde> and just sent the jpeg bit by bit
[16:49] <Ugi> well, an ATmega 1284 at 20MHz has a bit more to work with than an Arduino.
[16:50] <eroomde> let's ask fsphil
[16:50] <eroomde> fsphil: summon theyself
[16:51] <eroomde> (that's how you summon fsphil, after you've drawn a circle on the screen with blood)
[16:51] <Ugi> OK - thought you'd had an accident.
[16:51] <Willdude123> I still don't understand how people prove contacts at ham radio contests.
[16:53] <eroomde> suspect there's an element of gentlemanly agreement
[16:53] <Laurenceb> or use stm32
[16:53] <Laurenceb> with camera interface
[16:53] <eroomde> angry hams are not pretty
[16:53] <jarod> 132.085 MHz - Maastricht Delta High Sector EBUR EDVV EHAA - on:
[16:53] <Willdude123> Best ask in ##hamradio.
[16:54] <Willdude123> They have checking software, but is it only stations participating in the contest.
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[16:54] <Willdude123> It must be no fun if you have to contact other contest stations, because then everyone has a similar amount of points.
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[16:55] <eroomde> s/if you have to contact other contest stations, because then everyone has a similar amount of points.
[16:55] <eroomde> //
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[16:56] <Willdude123> Huh?
[16:57] <Ugi> he's being mean
[16:57] <eroomde> a speciality
[16:58] <eroomde> i've never really understood the appeal anyway. but then where would we be if everyone had the same interests
[16:58] <Ugi> at the gym, I suppose
[16:59] <eroomde> why would everyone default to the gym?
[16:59] <Ugi> it seems to be where everyone here other than me likes to go.
[17:00] <eroomde> where are you?
[17:00] <Ugi> at my desk in Lonodon
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[17:02] <Ugi> which, coincidentally, I am just about to vacate
[17:02] <Ugi> so I shall bit you all TTFN
[17:02] <Ugi> bid
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[17:11] <Willdude123> Adafruit copied wikipedia without citing.
[17:11] <Willdude123> http://www.adafruit.com/products/570
[17:11] <Willdude123> Hmm. To email or not to email.
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> Unless one or more authors wrote that for wikipedia, and released it to adafruit.
[17:13] <Laurenceb> generally reaching between 60,000 to 120,000 feet (18 to 37 km)
[17:13] <Laurenceb> accept here :P
[17:14] <Willdude123> SpeedEvil: you can't do that.
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> Of course you can.
[17:14] <Willdude123> SpeedEvil: Us wikipedia authors don't "own" what we make.
[17:14] <Willdude123> *write
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> Wikipedia does not have an exclusive licence to the wikipedians text.
[17:15] <Willdude123> "Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License; additional terms may apply. "
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> They can release their own text to any party they like, freely. In addition to releasing it under the wikipedia licence.
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> Same as if you release software under the GPL - you are also free to sell that code commercially under a different licence. (If you are the only author)
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[17:17] <Laurenceb> ironically i got an email from ST today
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[17:17] <Willdude123> It is not your own work. Your work on wikipedia is exclusive license.
[17:17] <Laurenceb> offering to sell me their GCC build for stm32
[17:18] <Willdude123> You agree that in order for text to be made available, you must Attribute, and share under a similar license.
[17:18] <Laurenceb> itt: nerd arguments
[17:19] <Willdude123> SpeedEvil: See enwp.org/WP:C
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> 'Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, Licensor hereby grants You a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual (for the duration of the applicable copyright) license to exercise the rights in the Work as stated below:'
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> Non-exclusive.
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> the authors of the work can choose to release it under other licences also.
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_3.0_Unported_License
[17:22] <Willdude123> Ah right.
[17:22] <Willdude123> Meh
[17:22] <Willdude123> It's an unlikely situation though.
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[17:23] <SpeedEvil> Sure, in most cases the number of authors effectively precludes it.
[17:24] <SpeedEvil> Licences often have holes too. GPLV2 breaks if you have a secure computing environment that can do compilation.
[17:25] <SpeedEvil> Openstreetmap had _major_ pain when it turned out that their initial cc-by-sa licence was basically a noop in the states, as you can't copyright collections of facts.
[17:27] <Willdude123> I'm getting back into wikipedia now.
[17:27] <SpeedEvil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noun_River_%28Morocco%29 - heh
[17:29] <jarod> Maxell when is next balloon scheduled?
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[17:32] <Maxell> jarod: Not sure. Let me check the malinglist.
[17:33] <Maxell> jarod: Saturday there are 2, could be 3. https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!forum/ukhas
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[17:54] <Willdude123> Is dominoex PSK or FSK?
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[18:03] <craag> Willdude123: multiple-FSK
[18:03] <fsphil> Willdude123: yep, if you can get a JPEG streaming into an AVR (via UART or SPI or some such) then SSDV will work fine
[18:03] <fsphil> the encoding process takes less than 2K of RAM
[18:04] <fsphil> you don't need to store the entire image in memory to do it
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[18:10] <jarod> Maxell others
[18:10] <jarod> those... balloon signals are V or H?
[18:11] <craag> V is preferred.
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[18:18] <jarod> thanks
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[18:20] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:20] <jcoxon> ping Upu
[18:22] <fsphil> howdy jcoxon
[18:22] <jcoxon> hey fsphil
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[18:27] <Willdude123> fsphil: Did you see this? http://mattrichardson.com/Descriptive-Camera/index.html
[18:29] <costyn> I updated the dependency chart on the wiki: http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning#dependency_chart comments welcome
[18:29] <fsphil> Willdude123: I did :) Check out the acknowledgements :)
[18:30] <costyn> Not sure what to do with the DOT "source" code for this graph
[18:30] <Willdude123> fsphil: That's why I asked.
[18:31] <fsphil> we could fly one but all it would report is "Dark sky, some clouds. Everything is spinning."
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[18:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
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[18:46] <Willdude123> Anyone know where I can get 100m of coax cheaply?
[18:46] <mfa298> what do you need 100m for
[18:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> Willdude123: which coax
[18:46] <mfa298> and if you need that length you need good coax as otherwise your antenna will be worthless
[18:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> MRC400 or RG-58 ;-) ?
[18:47] <Willdude123> Actually.
[18:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> in case of coax cheaper=worse
[18:47] <Willdude123> I might as well just setup a station in my granddad's house.
[18:48] <Willdude123> If he'll let me.
[18:48] <mfa298> looking at rg-58 for 100m at 400Mhz there will be over 30dB loss. You'de need a habamp at the mast end to even hope of hearing anything.
[18:48] <Jess--> does anyone know offhand the address and format of request you need to plot a chase car on spacenear?
[18:49] <mfa298> Willdude123: if you mount an antenna on your roof you really shouldn't need that much coax.
[18:50] <Willdude123> On my granddad's house, and getting it my bedroom.
[18:50] <Willdude123> So from the far right of his house to the far left of mine.
[18:50] <number10> do you live in same street
[18:50] <mfa298> are your houses next door to each other ?
[18:50] <Jess--> trying to build a lightweight system to update chase car position without having to use the habhub app (it's near impossible to use on an iphone 3gs with vodafone)
[18:50] <Willdude123> mfa298: Yes.
[18:51] <Willdude123> Actually no, his house is on the west side of america :P
[18:51] <mfa298> if you're doing that length you really need RG213 or W103 (which is a pain to put plugs onto)
[18:51] <LeoBodnar> Stick PC at his and remote control it over WiFi
[18:52] <LeoBodnar> = downconverting
[18:52] <LeoBodnar> technically upconverting to 2.4GHz but you know what I meant
[18:53] <eroomde> transverting
[18:53] <LeoBodnar> XD
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[18:55] <mfa298> In terms of losses per 100m you get, rg58: 36dB, RG213: 16dB, W103: 7.5 dB.
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:55] <mfa298> but you also pay more for the lower loss (£140 for 100m of W103)
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[18:57] <mfa298> rg213 is £100 for 100m, rg58 is £40 although for that length rg58 you're better off not bothering for 434Mhz as the loss will mean you hear nothing
[18:57] <Upu> pong jcoxon
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[19:09] <Willdude123> If the loss is the same as the antenna gain does that mean it's useless?
[19:10] <mfa298> you want as much signal to get to your radio as possible. There will be a limit at which point your radio can't receive anything.
[19:11] <mfa298> whilst you might get a strong signal with an overall loss for hab your interested in very weak signals so you want to minimise any losses as much as possible
[19:12] <mfa298> one thing you can do that would help is to put a preamp (like the habamp) at the antenna. So you get +9dB from the antenna, +20dB from the amp and -20db from the coax (example numbers)
[19:13] <mfa298> as well as loosing signal long coax will also introduce noise, putting a pre-amp at the antenna boosts the signal level over the noise that will be introduced.
[19:13] <mfa298> putting an amp at the radio end doesn't help as you end up amplifying the noise as much as any signal thats left
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[19:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu, jcoxon: did anyone tried big trashbag (240 or 480 litres) as superpressure envelope :) ?
[19:14] <fsphil> that might help for deaf radios
[19:15] <Upu> not that I'm aware of Tom
[19:15] <fsphil> there was a video not that long ago of someone launching a bin bag
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[19:15] <fsphil> though it was a solar balloon .. was just air, heated by the sun
[19:15] <Willdude123> Uhm Yeah I think I will just take my equipment next door if that's okay with my granddad.
[19:15] <HixPad> Hey y'all
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> can somone explain to me how these work? http://de.farnell.com/amphenol-connex/132113/rf-koaxial-steckverbinder-sma/dp/1704346
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> I suppose you have to solder up GND and RF to it somehow
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> but it seems that you have to assemble the parts first
[19:17] <mfa298> Willdude123: in simple terms keep the coax as short as possible and get the best quality coax you can get
[19:17] <Willdude123> Hallo Lunar_Lander
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:17] <Willdude123> How are you yah?
[19:17] <x-f> Lunar_Lander, you need a crimp tool for that connector
[19:17] <HixPad> So I had an idea for a really simple device to reduce spinning payloads
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> well I am OK
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> and you can talk in proper English to me
[19:18] <HixPad> Involves 2 simple turned parts and a decent ball bearing
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> x-f, I am still looking for a connector to fit the PCB one I have on my board, so I went to farnell
[19:18] <HixPad> Much better than the fishing swivel
[19:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> i Have some helium left, and i brought large bin bags :-)
[19:19] <HixPad> And probably very cheap
[19:19] <x-f> Lunar_Lander, it's a very popular connector so you can surely use it
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> hm ok
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[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> so does the coax like insert into that cylinder?
[19:19] <x-f> yes, kind of
[19:19] <SP9UOB-Tom> amd im think its worth to try PICO :-)
[19:20] <HixPad> In fact talking about it has given me an even better idea
[19:20] <x-f> Lunar_Lander, there are videos on the Youtube on how to attach it - a video will be better than thousand words :)
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> OK, thanks
[19:21] <HixPad> i.ebayimg.com/t/Swash-plate-for-TS-500-Align-T-Rex-Helicopter-TS500-16-/00/s/NDI4WDY0MA==/z/V60AAOxyOM5Rdj~Q/$T2eC16R,!)kE9s4Z+lr1BRdj+QRUBQ~~60_58.JPG
[19:21] <mfa298> Lunar_Lander: some photos of putting a crimp sma onto rg58 https://www.dropbox.com/sh/28dfumszrb0vrpj/5ZNxY6NNyQ
[19:21] <HixPad> Hmm that didn't work
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[19:22] <HixPad> Basically a rc heli swash
[19:22] <HixPad> Rotation and also movement in x and y too. Win
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> so that is like BNC?
[19:22] <HixPad> What ye thinketh?
[19:22] <mfa298> ah sorry, yes thats a bnc not sma
[19:23] <mfa298> but it's the same principle with any of them
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> yeah as you have GND and the RF part
[19:24] <mfa298> the idea is that crimp is much easier than soldering etc, when you're doing lots of connectors.
[19:25] <mfa298> although I did cheat and soldered the pin as I can never get a good crimp (I tihnk my crimp tool isn't doing a good job any more)
[19:27] <HixPad> mfa298: LeoBodnar was saying that in pro looms solder actually weakens the joint, hence they crimp amphenol circular connectors mostly
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:27] <HixPad> Iirc
[19:27] <eroomde> i think a lot of it depends on the backshell they're using
[19:28] <mfa298> I did that bnc the other day after the pl259 that had been soldered on had failed
[19:28] <eroomde> eg just heatshrunk backshells can put more load on the wires and joints
[19:28] <HixPad> If I am to use a swash plate assy in my stage one stabilisation platform it surely needs to be $$$$$swashbuckling
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[19:29] <eroomde> get some dmc crimp tools
[19:29] <eroomde> spoil yourself
[19:29] <HixPad> eroomde: Hence the kapton to avoid pinching and load transfer to individual wires
[19:29] <HixPad> You paying? I'll have 3 ta muchly
[19:29] <mfa298> I think the main reason a lot of pro jobs go for crimp is it's much faster - the first picture shows all the tools you should need
[19:30] <eroomde> i'm not
[19:30] <eroomde> also we have some
[19:30] <HixPad> #^%^{{ off :)
[19:30] <eroomde> i think the kapton is to stop the adhesive from attaching to individual wires
[19:30] <HixPad> Yup
[19:30] <eroomde> which would make rework v difficult
[19:30] <HixPad> But also stops the shrink pulling the wires
[19:31] <eroomde> but i can't see how, with service loops, you would ever get enough load on a solder joint to kill it
[19:31] <HixPad> Soot and plasma that's what looms need
[19:31] <HixPad> And 800A
[19:32] <HixPad> Oops, not really my idea, I stole it
[19:33] <eroomde> the poor genius who could have made a fortune
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[19:35] Nick change: cuddykid_ -> cuddykid
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[19:38] <HixPad> Happy belated Canada day natrium42
[19:38] <HixPad> Or have you moved
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[19:39] <eroomde> he is there now according to fb
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> and we have independence day :)
[19:39] <eroomde> i noticed
[19:39] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: 'we'
[19:39] <eroomde> you are german
[19:39] <Willdude123> n same street
[19:39] <Willdude123> 14:50 < mfa298> are your houses next door to each other ?
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:40] <HixPad> German independence? You ave tat up when you went for a jaunt to Poland ;p
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[19:40] Action: mfa298 wonders if the uk should be celebrating "Good Riddance" day
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[19:41] <HixPad> Exodus, movement for jah people
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[19:42] <mfa298> who pulled the plug out then ?
[19:42] <HixPad> France
[19:42] <HixPad> They've had enough again
[19:44] <HixPad> Ping chrisstubbs
[19:44] <chrisstubbs> Hello
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[19:44] <HixPad> Yo, how is the solidworks coming on?
[19:45] <chrisstubbs> Not done anything since :P managed to avoid using autocad today too
[19:45] <HixPad> Heh, auto ad is evil
[19:46] <chrisstubbs> utterly pointless redrawing a paper draft in 2D again in autocad, whats the point?
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> hi chrisstubbs
[19:46] Nick change: Upu_M0UPU -> UpuWork
[19:46] <chrisstubbs> was my argument :P
[19:46] <HixPad> Waste time and money?
[19:46] Upu- (~Upu@2a00:14f0:e028:0:7906:7a8c:3ce1:a300) joined #highaltitude.
[19:46] <chrisstubbs> btw I reccomend getting a scalpel to anyone that dosent have one, only just got one and much more useful than I expected
[19:47] <HixPad> Swan Morton FTP
[19:47] <HixPad> Wtf ftw
[19:47] Action: HixPad despises Apple
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[19:48] <eroomde> did you stab things chrisstubbs?
[19:48] <HixPad> After speaking to babs the other day, I am happy to help people out with any CAD at the conf
[19:49] <eroomde> can you get me solidworks?
[19:49] <eroomde> no tuition necessary
[19:49] <eroomde> just the dvd :)
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[19:49] <HixPad> Legally no
[19:49] <jarod> yay: http://x264.nl/dump/rtlsdr-mini-virtual-radar-server-distance-adsb- :D
[19:49] <HixPad> Off the record yes
[19:50] <eroomde> could i have some "tuition" at the conference?
[19:51] Nick change: qyx__ -> qyx_
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[19:51] <HixPad> Legally no
[19:52] <HixPad> What version of tuition did you want?
[19:52] <eroomde> unsure
[19:52] <eroomde> nothing too fancy pants
[19:53] <HixPad> Not sure what rev I have of tuition
[19:53] <Willdude123> http://x264.nl/dump/rtlsdr-mini-virtual-radar-server-distance-adsb- :D
[19:53] <HixPad> I can tutor you with Catia
[19:53] <HixPad> Sorry in
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[19:53] Nick change: Upu- -> Upu
[19:53] <mfa298> Willdude123: I think you need to change your copy paste options in putty
[19:53] <Willdude123> What kind of antenna do I need to rx ads-b?
[19:53] <Willdude123> Will do.
[19:53] <eroomde> HixPad: i think SW would make me future-compatible with work stuff
[19:54] <Willdude123> jarod: Why don't you join flightradar24?
[19:54] <eroomde> but, well, tis all up in the air atm
[19:54] <jonsowman> sounds like the right place for it
[19:54] <HixPad> Ok, chrisstubbs what tuition level of SW do you have?
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[19:54] <mfa298> Willdude123: first of all you'de need a suitable receiver (I think most people use the rtl-sdr devices)
[19:54] <chrisstubbs> err let me just look at my notes
[19:54] Nick change: nigelvh_ -> Guest20796
[19:54] <HixPad> Anyways, I'm happy to do a cad help session
[19:54] <chrisstubbs> 2010?
[19:54] <Willdude123> Yah, I have one.
[19:54] <HixPad> In exchange for C knowledge
[19:55] <HixPad> Ok, may have more recent
[19:55] <mfa298> Willdude123: I've got some ads-b data with an rtlsdr and the antenna it came with.
[19:55] <eroomde> C easy
[19:55] <eroomde> programming hard
[19:55] <chrisstubbs> Im really looking forward to eroomde's gps talk :D
[19:55] <eroomde> my koan for the day
[19:55] <HixPad> Syntax not worky with my brain and I shut off after a while
[19:55] <mfa298> Willdude123: ah, I did't realise you had an rtl as well, sounds like you're getting a range of recievers.
[19:55] <chrisstubbs> HixPad, X64 2010 SP0.0
[19:56] <HixPad> Talking through stuff it goes in
[19:56] <eroomde> syntax practice
[19:56] <eroomde> wax on, wax off
[19:56] <Willdude123> Oh is the FCD a suitable receiver?
[19:56] <eroomde> reference, dereference
[19:56] <HixPad> Paint da fence
[19:56] <Willdude123> That's what I meant.
[19:56] <eroomde> make a ring buffer or something
[19:56] <eroomde> to practice pointers
[19:56] <eroomde> you will also find it the perfect data structure for asynchronously dealing with crap coming into your uart
[19:56] <eroomde> or an other byte stream
[19:56] <HixPad> Bit banging really doesn't work either
[19:56] <Willdude123> So will a long piece of wire be OK?
[19:57] <mfa298> Willdude123: I don't think you can use the fcd for ads-b
[19:57] <HixPad> Afpad
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[19:58] <mfa298> probably want a shorter bit of wire for ads-b, it's 1090Mhz, you can probably work out how to make a suitable dipole / ground plane for that.
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[19:59] <HixPad> SW 2012 in the server eroomde chrisstubbs I'll bring tuition with me
[19:59] <HixPad> For now I'm off to eat
[20:00] <eroomde> supertastic
[20:00] <Willdude123> Not suitable nvm
[20:01] <LeoBodnar> What is the most reliable way of sealing the foil ballon's valve thingy?
[20:02] <Upu> gaffer tape
[20:03] <Willdude123> Hi Upu
[20:03] <LeoBodnar> How about this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Impulse-Sealer-200mm-8-New-Heat-Plastic-Bag-Sealer-ABS-With-Spare-Part-/121094552991?pt=UK_Packaging_Materials&hash=item1c31cc3d9f
[20:03] <Upu> evening Will
[20:04] <Upu> gaffer tape :)
[20:04] <Willdude123> I've decided it'd be best to establish my station in my granddad's spare bedroom.
[20:06] <LeoBodnar> Gaffer tape applies pressure from the outside, doesn't it? And it's heavy.
[20:06] <mfa298> I'm assuming your parents didn't like the idea of putting up an antenna
[20:07] <Upu> just a small piece
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[20:07] <Upu> not sure I'd be heat sealing it
[20:08] <gonzo__> LeoBodnar I used parcel tape. light and sticky as buggery
[20:09] <eroomde> buggery can be sticky
[20:09] <eroomde> so i'm told
[20:09] <gonzo__> (that phrase could be misunderstood if not said with a northern accent!)
[20:09] <gonzo__> hehe
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[20:14] <LeoBodnar> Heatsealing gizmo ordered. Heatsealing is is how baloons are made so it can't be worse than it already is.
[20:15] <eroomde> famous last words
[20:15] <eroomde> oh picos?
[20:15] <eroomde> many years ago we made a heat sealing rig
[20:15] <LeoBodnar> XD not H2 latex
[20:15] <eroomde> to try and make zero pressure balloons
[20:15] <eroomde> it was A Job
[20:15] <eroomde> but y'know, latex felt a bit 'last-year' in the heady days of 2007
[20:15] Action: Upu predicts LeoBodnar making zp torus balloons by this time next week
[20:16] <eroomde> but jesus we didn't realise how much work it would be to build a single zero pressure balloon
[20:16] <LeoBodnar> Klein bottle ballon?
[20:16] <LeoBodnar> balloon? O's shrtage here
[20:16] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK80MXHQ5hA
[20:17] <eroomde> we then made some which were much less optimal shapes
[20:17] <eroomde> but the time to make them was reduced almost quarticly with descrease in shape complexity
[20:18] <eroomde> we have a few still in sports bags that should take several 10s of kg up to about 28-30km
[20:18] <eroomde> just.... sitting
[20:18] <LeoBodnar> Google will have them
[20:19] <eroomde> yes i bet
[20:19] <Upu> any recommendations for a pressure sensor ?
[20:19] <Upu> small SMD
[20:19] <eroomde> one of the older faces round here is now a loony
[20:19] <eroomde> they're all crap
[20:19] <LeoBodnar> I am using MPL115
[20:19] <eroomde> get a proper bridge one
[20:19] <Upu> I know
[20:19] <Upu> is only for a sanity check
[20:19] <mattbrejza> Upu: the one i used last launch
[20:19] <eroomde> also the british empire
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[20:19] <eroomde> also something about my lawn
[20:19] <Upu> which is mattbrejza
[20:20] <mattbrejza> actually goes to low pressures
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[20:20] <LeoBodnar> MPL115 goes only to about 35-40kPa but enough for foils
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[20:20] <Upu> its enough for my intended application
[20:20] <Upu> what was the one you used mattbrejza ?
[20:20] <mattbrejza> mpxm2102
[20:20] <Upu> thanks
[20:20] <mattbrejza> not
[20:20] <mattbrejza> oops
[20:21] <mattbrejza> its analogue btw
[20:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: HP03SA looks ok http://sp9uob.verox.pl/SEBA-1/czujniki.png
[20:21] <Upu> I think I'll go with the MPL115, it should do the trick
[20:22] <Upu> thats an odd little thing
[20:22] <LeoBodnar> If you need 1.8V Vdd BMP085 is ok'ish
[20:22] <LeoBodnar> MPL115 is 2.4v
[20:23] <Upu> I'm making a cut down board that runs independently and detects zero g
[20:23] <Upu> but I want the pressure sensor as a sanity check so it doesn't trigger on the ground
[20:23] <mattbrejza> oh so cheap and small rather than good
[20:24] <mattbrejza> just search farnell by price
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[20:24] <Upu> yeah £1.73 is in my price range
[20:24] <Upu> cheers
[20:25] <LeoBodnar> SP9UOB-Tom: what happened to your MPL?
[20:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: some kind of overflow
[20:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> i think
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[20:26] <chrisstubbs> Made up another regulator and put them both in paralell, the headaches may have started though :P
[20:26] <LeoBodnar> Yes, correction formula are a bit hairy. Just went through them.
[20:27] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: someona had the same problem with BMP085
[20:27] <eroomde> Upu: EOSS had an ingenious mechanical version
[20:27] <LeoBodnar> They are designed for MAC on Freescale dsp hardware.
[20:27] <eroomde> it stayed locked when there was tension in the line
[20:27] <chrisstubbs> eroomde, sorry to be a pest, but any ideas: http://bit.ly/13vToNU
[20:27] <eroomde> but when tension was released it would wpring open and detech the line (to the balloon)
[20:27] <chrisstubbs> does it just need the filtering, or is there a bigger problem going on there
[20:28] <Upu> I did consider something like that eroomde
[20:28] <Upu> parachute release style
[20:28] <eroomde> but the cool thing was they used a pistony pressure switched with a sealed internal volume to pull a pin out to arm the mechanism
[20:28] <eroomde> when about about 20km
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[20:28] <eroomde> i.e. it was all passive
[20:28] <eroomde> i thought it was really neat
[20:28] <eroomde> stopped it happening on the ground as you say
[20:29] <LeoBodnar> chrisstubbs: what chip are you using?
[20:29] <LeoBodnar> And what are Vin Vout Iout
[20:29] <chrisstubbs> TLV61225
[20:29] <chrisstubbs> vin 1.7 vout 3.3
[20:29] <eroomde> chrisstubbs: can't really do sound as am in a noisy test bay
[20:29] <chrisstubbs> eroomde, there is no sound :)
[20:29] <eroomde> oh
[20:30] <chrisstubbs> showing the output on the scope and the voltage readings
[20:30] <chrisstubbs> with tracker connected/disconnected
[20:30] <LeoBodnar> What is the Iout?
[20:30] <eroomde> oh i see
[20:31] <eroomde> so it gets upset under load?
[20:31] <chrisstubbs> eroomde, yes
[20:31] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar, the tracker pulls about 100ma on startup, but im only reading about 10ma when using the boost regs
[20:31] <eroomde> what output cap are you using?
[20:31] <LeoBodnar> DS has efficiency charts ending at 100mA here's your hint
[20:32] <eroomde> lol
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[20:32] <chrisstubbs> 10uf 16v like it says on the datasheet
[20:32] <eroomde> but what kind of cap?
[20:32] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar, im using two in parallel to try and overcome that
[20:32] <LeoBodnar> It has minimum switch current limit 160mA
[20:32] <eroomde> cermic/tantalum/aluminium electrolytic
[20:32] <chrisstubbs> electrolytic
[20:32] <LeoBodnar> Duh
[20:32] <JDat> anybody form Latvia?
[20:33] <Upu> a few people JDat
[20:33] <gonzo__> all the latvians for example?
[20:33] <LeoBodnar> DS says A ceramic capacitor placed as close as possible to the VIN and GND pins of the IC is recommended.
[20:34] <LeoBodnar> Do you know the switching frequency?
[20:34] <eroomde> yes electrolytics are probably not a great choice for smps output caps, and you definitely want good local cermic decoupling cap at the input
[20:34] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar, ah right that could well be one problem then, and no idea i'm afraid :/
[20:35] <chrisstubbs> I have loads of 0.1uf but nowhere near 10uf cermaics
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[20:35] <eroomde> i use ceramics both sides unless there's a specific technical reason i want something with a bit more ESR, which there often isn't
[20:35] <chrisstubbs> 100 of them may be a bit extreme
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[20:36] <JDat> I am interesting regarding 6. jul Hi altfitude balloon flight in Latvija
[20:36] <LeoBodnar> Looks like 1MHz, eloctrolytic cap will almost definitely not work
[20:37] <LeoBodnar> Well, try to make up at least 1uF maybe in parallel with electrolytic?
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[20:38] <LeoBodnar> Both input and output are important
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[20:39] <eroomde> chrisstubbs: you can get 10u 16V ceramics in 0805
[20:39] <eroomde> np
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[20:41] <chrisstubbs> Hmm okay, looks like I might have to buy some boost reculators with a bit more current output, and actually get the right components :P
[20:41] Nick change: Guest20796 -> nigelvh
[20:47] <aie93> Recovered the payload
[20:47] <eroomde> so
[20:47] <mfa298> aie93: well done
[20:47] <eroomde> i just built gnuradio
[20:47] <aie93> All of the strings were available on the onboard card
[20:48] <aie93> thanks so much to everyone
[20:48] <eroomde> and then to sanity check it i tried to find a local fm radio station
[20:48] <eroomde> annd what was it? I programme about marconni and the history of radio communication
[20:49] <chrisstubbs> eroomde, I was shocked to find they have torn down most of the marconi new street factory now!
[20:49] <chrisstubbs> Noticed it was all boarded up driving through town last week so stopped to check it out, very eerie seeing the half torn down buliding in the moonlight. Wish I had my camera!
[20:51] <eroomde> a bit sad
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[20:51] <eroomde> marconi test equipment is/was nice
[20:51] <eroomde> we have a pair of really fantastic microwave siggens of theirs
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[20:51] <chrisstubbs> eroomde, do you use any EEV/E2V stuff?
[20:54] <eroomde> don't beleive so
[20:54] <chrisstubbs> Ah, we used to be part of marconi applied technologies so tons of that stuff kicking around
[20:54] <eroomde> are they the satt imaging people in east anglia?
[20:54] <eroomde> name rings a bell
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[20:55] <eroomde> or light sensors in general
[20:55] <chrisstubbs> Yeah we do all sorts of CCD's and RF products
[20:56] <chrisstubbs> I'm an apprentice there (incase you were wondering how I work there but am so hopeless at anything RF related)
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[20:57] <eroomde> lol
[20:57] <eroomde> you have things on james webb - is that right?
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[20:58] <chrisstubbs> Yes
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[21:00] <chrisstubbs> James webb is gaia?
[21:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "[UKHAS] Launch - Saturday 6th"
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[21:14] <griffonbot> Received email: A. Coghlan "[UKHAS] Re: Launch - Saturday 6th"
[21:14] <griffonbot> Received email: A. Coghlan "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Horizon 2 - 06/07/13"
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[21:54] <Willdude123> Hehe http://i.imgur.com/loTD38l.png
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[21:58] <Willdude123> Very quiet tonight it seems.
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[21:59] Nick change: Laurence2 -> Laurenceb_
[21:59] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/DvW6GPP.jpg
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[22:05] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP1YAzPvyUc - 3d printed house (sort-of) - cutter + plywood sheets
[22:05] <Laurenceb_> I could build something like that in the woods round here :P
[22:05] Action: Laurenceb_ is lurking in Vermont
[22:06] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:06] <SpeedEvil> The one in the USA?
[22:06] <Laurenceb_> lots of nice forest
[22:07] <Laurenceb_> yes :P
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> Funky.
[22:07] <Laurenceb_> unfortunately only for work, coming back fairly soon
[22:11] Nick change: Willdude123 -> Willdude123Schoo
[22:11] Nick change: Willdude123Schoo -> WILLschool
[22:11] <Laurenceb_> well.. it might be nice at the moment, but i can see a ski slope out of my window
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[22:12] Nick change: WILLschool -> WILLdude
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[22:15] <nearspaceman> hi guys ! first time here and first time on irc for about 20 years :)
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:16] <Adam012> Hi
[22:16] <nearspaceman> looking for info on high altitude data logger or altimeter for my balloon capsule
[22:18] <Adam012> How complicated/accurate do you want? You could use a pressure sensor and convert the reading into an approximate altitude which should work up to ~30km up. Or you could use a GPS chip and log the output
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> Quite.
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> GPS is pretty easy
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> There are even canned logging modules.
[22:19] <Adam012> The BMP085 is a cheapish pressure sensor
[22:19] <nearspaceman> i'm looking for something easy !
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> However - practically speaking - a GPS position broadcast is almost required to reliably get your payload back.
[22:19] <Adam012> Have you done any programming in the past?
[22:19] <nearspaceman> up to around 100,000 feet
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> Oh - low altitude.
[22:19] <nearspaceman> haha
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> And GPS broadcast means that the altitude logger kind-of solves itself.
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> nearspaceman: Wherea re you?
[22:20] <nearspaceman> Donegal , Ireland
[22:20] <nearspaceman> i'm using a SPOT tracker
[22:21] <nearspaceman> just need to record altitude
[22:21] <Adam012> You'll see the signal dissappear early on and then pop up when it's almost back to Earth.
[22:22] <nearspaceman> yeah, I have done 6 previous launches
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> oh noes
[22:22] <nearspaceman> but now i'm getting serious :)
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> someone just sent me http://i.imgur.com/11Z6nlI.jpg
[22:23] <Adam012> Thats a good number to have under your belt, do you have a blog?
[22:23] <nearspaceman> nearspaceman.blogspot.com
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> SPOT may land upside down, which is an issue.
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> I assume you have approval from the appropriate authority - CAA?
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> IAA?
[22:24] <nearspaceman> I have a gps transmitter back up as well
[22:24] <nearspaceman> not needed if its under 5kg
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[22:25] <SpeedEvil> So you just want pressure? What's your controller?
[22:25] <eroomde> that's unusual
[22:25] <WILLdude> spot trackers are cheating.
[22:25] <nearspaceman> cheating ? :)
[22:25] <Adam012> They are a handy back up as are smartphones
[22:25] <eroomde> WILLdude: you can have opinions once you've launched
[22:26] <Adam012> Ouch!
[22:26] <nearspaceman> don't have a controller - looking for suggestions people ! :)
[22:26] <WILLdude> Sorry eroomde.
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> nearspaceman: What programming have you done?
[22:26] <eroomde> well, we're very keen here on making our own flight stuff
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[22:26] <WILLdude> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AidhPfJkIZ0/T0pHJPluetI/AAAAAAAAADM/CKOkgI8ZpZw/s1600/capsule.jpg
[22:26] <nearspaceman> um..... not much programming
[22:27] <WILLdude> What do you keep in there? A person?
[22:27] <eroomde> we find a lot of people are surprised that it doesn;t take much to make something a lot more capable than spot/gsm
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> i made one back in 2004 :P
[22:27] <eroomde> eg updates every 10s or so with all sorts of flight info, and even pictures
[22:27] <WILLdude> eroomde, I'm allowed to have opinions.
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> using atmega8 and ericsson t26
[22:27] <Adam012> Building your own radio tracker is a little bit of a steep learning curve at first
[22:28] <Adam012> but with a little help from those in this chat room it is much easier.
[22:28] <WILLdude> nearspaceman, most payloads are a lot smaller than the ones you seem to make.
[22:28] <nearspaceman> i'm just at the learning stage :)
[22:29] <eroomde> WILLdude: lots of recent ukhas onces are smaller than that, 'most' might be a stretch
[22:29] <WILLdude> nearspaceman me too.
[22:29] <SpeedEvil> Some people have recently been doing very, very small payloads :)
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> heh my first balloon is still on the wiki :P
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:mihab:p4290016.jpg?cache=
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> not very small
[22:29] <Adam012> When I started following UKHAS just over a q.5 years ago the payloads were pretty similar to that!
[22:30] <eroomde> nearspaceman: so a common pattern here is to connect a gps to a microcontroller board like an arduino, and also a small radio
[22:30] <eroomde> then get a system that can send gps position (including alt) once every 10s or so from the balloon
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> Some people have used raspberry PI
[22:30] <eroomde> there's a lot of info about how to do this on the wiki
[22:30] <Adam012> I've got to climb the wooden hill. Goodnight all, be nice to nearspaceman!
[22:30] <eroomde> we're not so good at off-the-shelf solutions somewhat ideologically
[22:30] <eroomde> but in a gentle way
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[22:31] <nearspaceman> yes - be nice to me !
[22:31] <WILLdude> It sends it via RTTY, which basically varies a frequency to make up bits that can be received on the ground, well that's how most trackers work.
[22:31] <nearspaceman> I did help make fuel for the Space Shuttle many moons ago !
[22:32] <WILLdude> Anyway I'll shut up because I'm not allowed any opinions.
[22:32] <nearspaceman> that deserves some brownie points !
[22:32] <eroomde> yes it does
[22:32] <nearspaceman> I will check wiki and pi
[22:32] <eroomde> what do you use in your balloons - hydrogen or helium?
[22:33] <nearspaceman> helium
[22:33] <eroomde> i think the concensus here would be to recommend an arduino over a pi
[22:33] <eroomde> they're simpler
[22:33] <nearspaceman> oh, okay
[22:33] <eroomde> (but still plenty powerful enough for this job)
[22:33] <WILLdude> indeed
[22:33] <WILLdude> But I'll shut up, since I'm not allowed any opinions.
[22:33] <eroomde> so we have a wiki, it's chaotic but very rich with info
[22:34] <eroomde> WILLdude: you can also not keep repeating yourself too
[22:35] <nearspaceman> can someone just send me a link to what I need ?
[22:35] <WILLdude> whatever
[22:35] <eroomde> nearspaceman: for example
[22:35] <eroomde> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[22:35] <eroomde> which helps explain how you connect the radio module that is popular to the microcontroller
[22:36] <eroomde> it assumes a little bit of electronics and programming, but if it all looks greek then don't worry too much, there's less to learn than there looks
[22:36] <nearspaceman> thank you !
[22:37] <nearspaceman> I'm not a total loss - just a bit out of practice
[22:37] <eroomde> and then the same thing for gps
[22:37] <eroomde> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox6
[22:37] <WILLdude> z
[22:37] <eroomde> the ublox6 is the particular module we all like
[22:37] <eroomde> they don;t suffer from altitude limitations if you put them in the right mode
[22:37] <eroomde> so you can track the whole trajectory
[22:38] <nearspaceman> okay , that sounds good
[22:38] <nearspaceman> where are you from?
[22:38] <eroomde> oxford
[22:38] <eroomde> used to be in the cambridge group
[22:39] <nearspaceman> I bookmarked those links for viewing tomorrow
[22:39] <eroomde> who wrote the flight predictor among other things
[22:39] <nearspaceman> okay, I have used that :)
[22:40] <eroomde> cool. well, you have used some of my code. but mostly others by now - it's evolved into something much better than the early days
[22:40] <eroomde> i actually am a colleague of @rocketengines
[22:40] <eroomde> i suggested to him that you come here when he asked :)
[22:41] <nearspaceman> small world !
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[22:41] <eroomde> it is
[22:42] <nearspaceman> I was at Imperial College materials science dept before I hid out here :)
[22:42] <WILLdude> I'm gomna take a break from talking in here and developing my tracker for a while. It's really doing my head it talking to people on the internet. For some crazy reason I get depressed because of any negative comments, so yeah, see you all in a week or so maybe.
[22:42] <eroomde> well if you're a student into space stuff, there aren't that many places you'll likely end up
[22:43] <WILLdude> (if I'm still alive)
[22:43] <eroomde> WILLdude: I have some sympathy with your position (a lot really) but the general un-edited relaying of drama onto the irc channel is a bit innappropriate
[22:43] <eroomde> this isn't the venue
[22:43] <nearspaceman> hey willdude, thanks for chatting
[22:44] <eroomde> sorry if you think I'm being short with you, it's more just tough-love
[22:45] <WILLdude> um sorry?
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> WILLdude: Don't be silly - you are a special snowflake!
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> WILLdude: Seriously - take negative comments with a beeeg pinch of salt.
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> Remember - on the internet - you don't know everyone else isn't an idiot.
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[22:46] <nearspaceman> hey guys - gotta go too , thank you , chat soon okay
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[22:47] <eroomde> it's shit being 13/14/whatever, but we've all been there, and it does get better, but you won't believe me probably because that's part of being 12/13/14
[22:47] <WILLdude> Yeah I'll leave for maybe a day, but the last thing I'd want to do is be melodramatic. I guess I just wanted my frustration to be clear with you, but I guess I am just an overreactive person.
[22:47] <eroomde> so there's not much we can do. but it does get easier and less frustrating
[22:47] <eroomde> but it doesn't seem like it at the time
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> WILLdude: Also:
[22:48] <WILLdude> The reasomn I don't believe you is because so many people say when I'm 16 it'll be fine and I can study what I want and I'll never have any problems and I'll get the most interesting job in the world.
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> http://brainsciencepodcast.com/bsp/2009/11/11/david-bainbridge-on-the-teenage-brain-bsp-63.html - on the teenage brain - highly recommended.
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> WILLdude: They're lying, you never have a clue what's coming up.
[22:49] <mfa298> WILLdude: I'm sure you can get the most interesting job in the world (or at least what you think it interesting) but you have to work at it and be *positive*
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> (Above is what's going on in the architechtural and wiring changes in the brain.
[22:49] <WILLdude> Heh
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> One of my favourite podcasts.
[22:50] <WILLdude> It's difficult to be positive.
[22:50] <eroomde> WILLdude: it's not that you're being melodramatic either, or at least not unusually. i took a door off its hinges slamming it once around that age
[22:50] <WILLdude> I can never be 100% sure it's possible.
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> It may not be. You might get hit by a bus tomorrow, or come down with a crippling illness.
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> It's all luck. You can only play the cards you're dealt.
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> And try to maximise your odds.
[22:52] <mfa298> the main think about being positive is believing that you can acheive something. If your attitude is always "I can't do this, it's too hard" you will fail.
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> Also - learn how to hide aces up your sleeve.
[22:53] <Laurenceb_> ooh nice
[22:53] <Laurenceb_> MAX21000+ in stock
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> Beliving you can achieve things doesn't however make it so. Try also to consider the rational likelyhood of success for someone in a similar position to you. For 99.999% of people, trying to become a career footballer will fail.
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> This doesn't mean you shouldn't try - if you have the aptitude - but prepare a backup plan.
[22:54] <WILLdude> SpeedEvil, the former option of being hit by a bus is my preferred over the other options.
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> The above podcast goes into some of why emotions are so random. There is _massive_ rewiring going on in the teenage brain.
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> And no, rationality may not help at all.
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[22:57] <WILLdude> Brain science can't give me a meaning to life.
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[22:58] <SpeedEvil> It's not about meaning so much.
[22:58] <SpeedEvil> Meaning is whatever you choose it to be.
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[23:04] <WILLdude> Meh
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> A profound and true statement.
[23:09] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] Tudorgrange balloon launched July 4th"
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[23:20] <WILLdude> I wonder if the BBB would be any good for a tracker.
[23:20] <WILLdude> *Beaglebone black.
[23:21] <mfa298> There's one way to find out - try it!
[23:22] <mfa298> although you might want to ask first what does it give you thats of use for HAB that an AVR/Arduino/Pi doesn't do.
[23:22] <mfa298> apart from a bigger hole in the bank balance
[23:23] <craag> It would be better than a Pi, and has a lot more power than an AVR. But is a lot more expensive.
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> $45?
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> thats not a lot
[23:23] <craag> *than an AVR.
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> ah
[23:24] <craag> :)
[23:24] <craag> I've been meaning to get one to try out as a pi replacement.
[23:24] <mfa298> Could be interesting to see if there's enough power on it to run dl-fldigi (or if it could be made to run matt's app)
[23:24] <craag> Yeah that might work, it is a 1GHz core.
[23:26] <WILLdude> Hmm if I have any birthday money leftover after I've bought my antenna, I'll get one.
[23:27] <WILLdude> We're using raspis as part of 'challenge week' next week. amd we're using scratch.
[23:27] <mfa298> thinking of matt's app, I really out to find out how to get alsa to route audio from one app to another so I can try piping rtl_fm to the decoder
[23:27] <WILLdude> Which we have on school computers.
[23:27] <WILLdude> Unless we're using th gpio.
[23:27] <WILLdude> wait I doubt it,.
[23:29] <WILLdude> In fact, I might do what ibanezmatt13 is doing and start with python code for the tracker.
[23:29] <WILLdude> And then do C/Arduino.
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> In principle, as I understnad it the BBB should have much better power usage.
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> But nobodies implemented it.
[23:33] <KF7FER> and having Ethernet available at 100k feet can be useful. Never know when ET needs to...well, download pr0n I guess
[23:34] <zyp> I bet BBB also have multiple UARTs, so you can have one dedicated to gps and one for transmitter
[23:35] <WILLdude> I think transmitter connected to serial is considered slightly temperamental.
[23:36] <craag> Multiple UARTs is nice. Also lots more io, including ADC.
[23:36] <craag> You might be able to do dominoex with the DAC on them..
[23:39] <WILLdude> How does dominoex work?
[23:39] <WILLdude> What's ADC?
[23:39] <mfa298> NTX2 on serial could be more favourable to bit banging a pin, but requires the UART to manage a suitable speed
[23:40] <craag> An ADC allows you to read analog voltages, like battery voltage and sensors.
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[23:40] <craag> You can add one to the pi, but the beaglebone black has them builtin iirc.
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[23:41] <WILLdude> Like analog inputs on the arduino?
[23:41] <craag> Exactly.
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[23:43] <WILLdude> 5 serials
[23:48] <WILLdude> wow
[23:48] <craag> It's got a lot of IO.
[23:48] <WILLdude> Indeed.
[23:49] <WILLdude> a
[23:49] <craag> I'd really suggest starting with an arduino to get the hang of how to use it, on a device that's already got a lot of community support though.
[23:49] <WILLdude> Are they 5v or 3.3v?
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[23:49] <SpeedEvil> PRUs are interesting too.
[23:49] <craag> 5V afaik, but I haven't got one.
[23:49] <craag> Yeah PRU looks v interesting
[23:50] <WILLdude> Ah but the serial is 3.3v.
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> They're basically a couple of small 32 bit 8K RAM/ROM microcontrollers on die
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> which can take over pins.
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> Ideal for hard-real-timey stuff
[23:50] <craag> SO you can do what Dave did with his arduino managing the serial, but onboard :)
[23:50] <craag> *managing the rtty
[23:52] <WILLdude> Nowhere says if it've 5v or 3v3.
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> #beagle
[23:54] <WILLdude> So it is 5v then?
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[23:55] <Darkside> 3.3v
[23:55] <WILLdude> Oh
[23:56] <Darkside> which is fine
[23:56] <WILLdude> Might have to get some different value resistors for my ntx2 though.
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[23:58] <craag> WILLdude: Have you got a tracker of some kind working and appearing on the map?
[23:58] <WILLdude> Nope.
[23:59] <craag> Because I'd really suggest doing that with a well-known platform (eg arduino) before trying something where none of us can help you (beaglebone).
[23:59] <WILLdude> I'd rather sort of start with python, as it will help me to understand rtty in a non-headdesking way.
[23:59] <WILLdude> Does the UBX breakout board support 3v3 serial?
[23:59] <craag> But the hardware interface might be more tricky than with arduino.
[00:00] --- Fri Jul 5 2013