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[05:02] <costyn> jarod: well I'm moving to Curacao for 3 years in 2 weeks, so I'm not going to be doing any anytime soon ;)
[05:02] <costyn> jarod: not sure anyone at our hackerspace is going to continue
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[06:54] <Lunar_LanderU> morning
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[06:56] <x-f> morning
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[07:05] <x-f> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyuiShSePS4 - Proton-M Launch Failure Explosion July 2, 2013
[07:05] <x-f> quite a sight
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[07:07] Nick change: Guest14132 -> danielsaul
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[07:12] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Vague Launch Announcement XABEN-52 et al"
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[07:23] <WILLdude> Morning.
[07:23] <fsphil> morn
[07:24] <WILLdude> I think we should have a UKHAS subreddit.
[07:24] <Darkside> lol
[07:25] <eroomde> i think reddit is a black hole best avoided
[07:26] <fsphil> like myspace?
[07:27] <UpuWork> I went to reddit once
[07:27] <UpuWork> it was like a wall of random english words
[07:27] <WILLdude> But reddit is cooler than myspace.
[07:27] <UpuWork> my what ?
[07:27] <fsphil> the flu is cooler than myspace
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[07:28] <WILLdude> I like reddit, there's some good stuff on there sometimes, somewhere.
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[07:42] <number10> I think I may launch a pico on saturday.. if I could get it to float http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=aec5472b56b1c7864af00f53480f3ef29ebee44b
[07:46] ibanezmatt13 (56b0351b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[07:46] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[07:46] <eroomde> number10: wow
[07:46] <UpuWork> hi ibanezmatt13
[07:47] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: Hi Upu, not sure how to open a PM, could you do that?
[07:47] <daveake> number10 That's where Briian used to live
[07:48] <eroomde> 'msg UpuWork boooooooooooooo'
[07:48] <eroomde> '/msg UpuWork boooooooooooooo'
[07:48] <eroomde> 2nd one
[07:49] <fsphil> woooooooo might also work
[07:49] <eroomde> depends on kernel version
[07:50] <number10> wher has brian moved to daveake
[07:50] <daveake> somewhere else in Denmark :p
[07:50] <number10> :)
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[07:54] <fsphil> tracking that over the sea will be a pain
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[08:06] <gonzo_> anyhthing flying in the uk today?
[08:07] <fsphil> there's a dominoex flight I believe
[08:07] <fsphil> 1500 UTC
[08:07] <fsphil> not for a while yet
[08:07] <fsphil> it's a pico
[08:11] <gonzo_> ta, I'll leave ther system powered
[08:13] <daveake> I shall take my chase car today then as all my kit is in there :)
[08:19] <griffonbot> Received email: David Bowkis "[UKHAS] ANU-7: provisional foil balloon launch Saturday 6th"
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[08:22] <fsphil> number10: 343.250MHz? :)
[08:23] <number10> +1MHz
[08:23] <number10> you know me with a keyboard fsphil - I am sure people will work it out - ....maybe
[08:23] <fsphil> +90MHz
[08:23] <fsphil> lol
[08:23] <number10> or will we be inundated with emails
[08:24] <fsphil> oh I'm wrong too, +91MHz
[08:24] <number10> oh yes - got the keys in the wrong order
[08:24] <mfa298> fsphil: sureley you were accounting for the previous +1
[08:24] <fsphil> yes
[08:24] <fsphil> that was it
[08:24] <fsphil> all along
[08:24] <number10> :)
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[08:29] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - 29th/30th June"
[08:32] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "[UKHAS] Vague Launch Possibility Brightwalton 6th/7th July"
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[08:35] <fsphil> that's certainly vague
[08:35] <mfa298> daveake: I see you're going for the Steve style announcment now
[08:39] <daveake> He's the expert it's best to do what he does :)
[08:40] <number10> least
[08:40] <number10> at leat you havent made a frequency error in your announcement daveake
[08:40] <daveake> And announcing frequencies doesn't seem to help these days anyway
[08:40] <daveake> number20 Nope
[08:40] <number10> :)
[08:40] <number10> I dont have a programming header on the pico so I thought I would try and reserve that
[08:40] <daveake> Sunday looks great actually
[08:41] <number10> good for a BBQ
[08:41] <daveake> It's the NTX2 freqs that are in short supply
[08:41] <daveake> yup
[08:42] <daveake> One [rediction I ran yesterday was for a landing 1.2km from the launch
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[08:43] <daveake> ok off to work back in an hour or so
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[08:44] <number10> part timer
[08:45] <UpuWork> Use LMT2s...
[08:46] <number10> yes - I need to have a play around with that soon UpuWork
[08:55] <griffonbot> Received email: Mike Willis "RE: [UKHAS] Vague Launch Possibility Brightwalton 6th/7th July"
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[09:01] <ibanezmatt13> Morning :)
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[09:14] <HixWork> eroomde, looks lik ethe Americans aren't experiencing the same level of success with space as AEL http://goo.gl/76dGu
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[09:42] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] ANU-7: provisional foil balloon launch Saturday 6th"
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[09:49] <Maxell> B-2's foil lauch, will it be high enough for us Dutchies to hear it?
[09:50] <craag> Probably not unless it floats over that way.
[09:50] <Maxell> Darn
[09:50] <Maxell> I'll keep in eye in tough
[09:50] <craag> :)
[09:50] <Maxell> DominoEX 16 sounds like a great mode.
[09:50] <Maxell> s/in/on/
[09:52] <craag> It does! I'm looking forward to seeing how well it works.
[09:55] <mfa298> from the ground tests the person flying it has done it sounds like it copes well with weak signals which could be good, and it sounded like he might try and float it.
[09:56] <craag> I might have a go at receiving it from the Maths tower later.
[09:56] <craag> Once it's up.
[09:56] <mfa298> that could work well.
[09:57] Action: RocketBoy imagines maths tower looks like the Tower of Hanoi
[09:59] <craag> Unfortunately not. It's a concrete block with a cluster of telecoms antennas bristling from the top.
[09:59] <craag> Very boring :/
[10:02] <Ugi> Hi guys.
[10:02] <fsphil> sounds like a bad place to be trying low power reception
[10:02] <Ugi> how hard is getting CAA authorisation?
[10:02] <Ugi> Does it take long to get?
[10:02] <fsphil> Depends if your name is Dave or not
[10:02] <Ugi> Ugi =/= dave
[10:03] <fsphil> months then
[10:03] <Ugi> damn
[10:03] <craag> fsphil: It generally is, we've tried to use it for ham stuff, but I'm hoping the habamp will help a bit.
[10:03] <fsphil> it's quite variable
[10:03] <fsphil> I've had notam's issued within a few weeks, and sometimes 6 months
[10:03] <Ugi> Just wondering about mid August as a first launch target
[10:03] <fsphil> if you apply now then possibly
[10:04] <fsphil> they recommend 28 days
[10:04] <fsphil> before the event
[10:04] <Ugi> otherwise, we could easily make the Churchill site
[10:04] <Ugi> but I don't know the logistics of that
[10:04] <fsphil> that would be a bit easier
[10:04] <fsphil> you'd need to have a chat with one of the CUSF peoples
[10:04] <fsphil> or Steve
[10:04] <Ugi> does there need to be someone around?
[10:04] <fsphil> no Steve has a different site
[10:05] <fsphil> yea the person named on their notam needs to be there iirc
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[10:05] <Ugi> Ah. That could be an issue if they are undergrad'
[10:05] <Ugi> or indeed on hols
[10:06] <Ugi> who is CUSF and helpful?
[10:06] <fsphil> they're all helpful, but I'm not sure who's in it these days. suspect DanielRichman
[10:07] <jonsowman> Ugi: email contact@cusf.co.uk :)
[10:07] <fsphil> ah there you go
[10:07] <Ugi> Perfect - thanks jonsowman
[10:07] <fsphil> I do wish the notam procedure was simpler and quicker
[10:08] <fsphil> it's by far the longest process for me
[10:08] <Ugi> some people seem to put up flights near enough daily - how do they do that?
[10:08] <fsphil> special arrangements
[10:10] <Ugi> Sounds suspicious to me ;-)
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[10:11] <Maxell> craag: hmm, after hitting autoconfigure "FEC" is disabled. I tought you'd like to use DomEX for it's FEC
[10:11] <HixWork> cue father jack voice
[10:11] <fsphil> GRLs!
[10:11] <HixWork> DRNK
[10:12] <craag> Maxell: Even without the FEC it's quite robust.
[10:13] <craag> As it's 16-fsk rather than 2-fsk iirc
[10:13] <fsphil> yep
[10:14] <Maxell> and FEC prolly has a lot of overhead
[10:14] <craag> I played around with it on a HF DDS and found it to be extremely good at decoding while barely visible on the waterfall.
[10:14] <fsphil> FEC would make it a bit better at handling fading
[10:14] <craag> It does, and it's also not optimally implemented.
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[10:15] <fsphil> olivia's FEC would probably work better
[10:15] <Darkside> mm i'd like to see an olivia implementation
[10:15] <craag> The interleaving interval is designed for fast-fading iirc, so doesn't help with slow-fading.
[10:15] <Darkside> the othe rproblem is olivia needs amplitude shaping
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[10:16] <Darkside> i believe it uses the shaping for sync
[10:16] <fsphil> yea that's a pain
[10:16] <Darkside> so fldigi may not sync properly to constant-amplitude olivia
[10:16] <Darkside> would be an interesting experiment though
[10:17] <fsphil> I'm not sure why >4-FSK is better than 2-FSK
[10:17] <fsphil> wouldn't it end up using the same bandwidth for the bitrate?
[10:17] <fsphil> same noise level to deal with
[10:17] <Darkside> its better for HF
[10:17] <Darkside> where you may lose part of the channel due to multipath fading
[10:18] <Darkside> for VHF/UHF, not so much
[10:18] <Darkside> however, olivias error correction will let you keep a signal when its below the noise floor
[10:18] <fsphil> yea I've seen that happen
[10:18] <mattbrejza> M>2 is supposed to be better on AWGN as well, but not sure why
[10:18] <fsphil> getting good decodes from a signal I can't see or hear
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[10:18] <Darkside> my first DX data contact was with Olivia 32/1000
[10:18] <Darkside> i couldnt see the signal on my waterfall
[10:19] <fsphil> I've yet to get an answer to a CQ on the mode
[10:19] <Darkside> you need to be in the right place
[10:19] <fsphil> I was using the frequencies mentioned on the olivia website
[10:19] <fsphil> the only contact I managed was pre-arranged
[10:20] <Maxell> heh, DomEX is doing something strange. I mistuned on purpose and look it still decodes http://i.imgur.com/qyLDnli.png
[10:20] <Maxell> I'm doing local monitor of other fldigi btw.
[10:20] <fsphil> yea it's good at handling drift
[10:20] <Maxell> But no AFC :/
[10:20] <fsphil> none of the multi-fsk modes seem to
[10:20] <fsphil> though I'm sure it's possible to do
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[10:24] <Maxell> hmm, four $'s are not enough for dl-fldigi to start picking up DomEX
[10:28] <fsphil> you might need to start it with a newline
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[10:31] <Maxell> yeah, two newlines seem to be suffcient
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[10:37] <Ugi> What type of code is DomEX? Looks like multi-frequency from that screenshot.
[10:37] <Ugi> google is not terribly helpful
[10:38] <Ugi> the radio equivalent of a parallel interface?
[10:38] <UpuWork> MFSK Ugi
[10:39] <craag> Instead having two tones like rtty, it has 16
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[10:39] <Ugi> Thanks UpuWork
[10:39] <Ugi> cheers craag - I now have a wikipedia page to read! brb
[10:43] <mattbrejza> the problem with the built in modes is they dont provide any throughput gain over 300 baud rtty
[10:48] <Lunar_LanderU> RocketBoy: one question about the chute calculator on your page
[10:48] <Lunar_LanderU> it says that a 42" spherachute will fall at 5.7 m/s if loaded with 1.8 kg at sea level
[10:48] <RocketBoy> yep
[10:48] <Lunar_LanderU> when I do the maths myself with A = 0.3626 m^2 and C_D=1.33 I get 7.7 m/s
[10:48] <RocketBoy> its based on manufacturer data
[10:49] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[10:49] <RocketBoy> hang on ill check
[10:49] <Lunar_LanderU> ok
[10:50] <Maxell> mattbrejza: is speed the only thing you care about? :P
[10:50] <craag> 600 baud rtty ftw! :P
[10:50] <mattbrejza> well obv fec when the conditions are challenging is useful
[10:51] <mattbrejza> but the point is that you might as well do 600 baud rtty w/ 1/3 rate code or somethign similar
[10:52] <Maxell> true
[10:52] <Maxell> but i do have hard time pulling in packts at those speeds
[10:53] <craag> Yeah some FEC in rtty would be good.
[10:53] <Maxell> I feel like I need a much stronger signal when a balloon does RTTY 100+ baud
[10:53] <craag> You do, you need twice the signal power.
[10:53] <Darkside> we only do 4dB more here when we do 300 baud
[10:54] <craag> But with 300 baud you can afford to miss a few sentences.
[10:54] <Maxell> Well, if *all* the lines have a few broken chars in them it's not useful.
[10:54] <Darkside> yep
[10:55] <Darkside> yeah they generally dont
[10:55] <Maxell> if you would double the power, you increase the chance you'll get less broken decodes. instead of 4 broken chars you'd have 2 per line.
[10:56] <mattbrejza> suppose i could run some simulations and present them at the conference
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[10:56] <mattbrejza> in like a 10min slot
[10:57] <mattbrejza> if we have a session for lots of short talks
[10:57] <Maxell> I'd like to see those published in the net too.
[10:57] <mattbrejza> yea id write it up
[10:58] <mfa298> for the UK at least we're running maximum legal power, although I'm not sure how much youd gain by doubling the power, a better recieve antenna / more sensitive & selective reciever could get a lot more benefit
[10:58] <Maxell> twice the powe is 3dB extra
[10:58] <Maxell> g2g ttyl guys
[11:04] <RocketBoy> Lunar_LanderU: I think you have the maths wrong - for a 42" chute with Cd of 1.33 and a 1.8 Kg payload then the landing speed would be 4.98m/sec
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[11:04] <RocketBoy> although Cd of 1.33 is way too high
[11:04] <RocketBoy> to be sensible
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[11:05] <Lunar_LanderU> ok thanks RocketBoy
[11:05] <RocketBoy> A = 0.89 sqm for a 42" chute
[11:05] <Lunar_LanderU> hm
[11:05] <Lunar_LanderU> why do I have .3626 m^2
[11:05] <fsphil> I've only used 50 baud once, 300 seems fine
[11:05] <RocketBoy> PI() * D * D / 4
[11:06] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[11:06] <RocketBoy> 42" = 1.07m
[11:06] <Lunar_LanderU> isn't D in that case like the distance across the half sphere?
[11:06] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[11:07] <RocketBoy> let me see if I can dig out the words on this
[11:10] <mfa298> 50bd only seems to work slightly better with very weak signals and 10mW seems to be good enough to give a good LoS signal if your reciever is up to the job.
[11:11] <mfa298> I generally struggle due to location so the issue is more at my end than the tx - interestingly I think I got close to recieving the 300bd yesterday than the 50bd.
[11:12] <RocketBoy> Lunar_LanderU: the words of wisdom are: 1) Calculate the whole cloth area of the parachute including any gaps / holes within the canopy (e.g. for a ribbon parachute you would include the area of the gaps between ribbons). This is the nominal area.
[11:12] <Lunar_LanderU> ok
[11:12] <RocketBoy> 2) Calculate the diameter of a circle with the area derived above. This is the nominal diameter of the parachute
[11:12] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[11:13] <RocketBoy> the area is the area of that circle
[11:14] <Lunar_LanderU> ok, thanks
[11:14] <RocketBoy> in any event the calculator just takes the chute size and back calculates a Cd based on matching the manufacturer data
[11:14] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks :)
[11:15] <Lunar_LanderU> so I can take D to calculate the area of the hemisphere and substract the area of the hole at the top
[11:16] <RocketBoy> you could do - but then you'd just have to guess the Cd
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[11:17] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[11:17] <RocketBoy> so as long as the manufacturer uses a consistent measurement (e.g. across the top of the canopy) and consistent ratios for spill hole size - then the area will always be some factor related to the dimension squared
[11:18] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
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[11:18] <RocketBoy> and the Cd just needs to match the manufacturer rates for given loads
[11:21] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[11:23] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks again and thanks for providing the calculator
[11:24] <RocketBoy> np
[11:24] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - 29th/30th June"
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[11:29] <Lunar_LanderU> hi daveake
[11:29] <daveake> hi LLU
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[11:36] <ibanezmatt13> Afternoon :)
[11:51] <x-f> afternoon
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[11:54] <ibanezmatt13> seems very quiet on here today
[11:54] <ibanezmatt13> everyone's at work :P
[11:55] <gonzo_> since when did that stop them?!
[11:55] <gonzo_> who is flying the pico this arvo?
[11:56] <x-f> LeoBodnar is
[11:57] <x-f> actually what does "arvo" mean? :)
[11:57] <gonzo_> afternoon
[11:58] <gonzo_> may be an austrailianism, but I'm sure i'll be corrected
[11:58] <gonzo_> n
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[12:22] <Maxell> why am i already waiting for the DomEX launch?
[12:22] <Maxell> I think I might be habdicted.
[12:23] <Darkside> gonzo_: arvo is an australianism, eys
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[12:24] <LazyLeopard> not exclusively Aussie...
[12:26] <Willdude123> Hi
[12:26] <LazyLeopard> heard it a bit, mainly from folks with their roots in the laid-back slightly hippyish 1970s
[12:26] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13: I'm at school. Doesn't stop me .
[12:28] <Willdude123> :P
[12:28] <Willdude123> Still deciding about aerials.
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[12:33] <Willdude123> I think house mounting would be best, as I need a lot of height. My granddads house is quite a big obstruction.
[12:36] <Willdude123> http://bit.ly/17DIXXC http://bit.ly/120BEoK and http://bit.ly/12C11Ac would these be any good together?
[12:38] <mfa298> Willdude123: it's very hard for anyone here to suggest the best way to mount it to your house without seeing your house
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[12:39] <Willdude123> It's not on street view so it's slightly difficult for me to do that.
[12:40] <mfa298> who are you going to get to install it ?
[12:40] <Willdude123> Err.
[12:40] <Willdude123> IDK yet.
[12:41] <Willdude123> The problem is, it's difficult to afford a guy to come round and install it.
[12:41] <Willdude123> I guess we could do it ourselves.
[12:41] <mfa298> Chances are if you get a proffesional aerial installation company to do it they can supply decent stuff to mount it. If it fails you can probably call them up to fix it as well.
[12:41] <mfa298> You might want to talk to your parents first and see that they would be happy to install it themselves.
[12:42] <junderwood> Or you could try something like http://www.moonraker.eu/poles-and-masts/telescopic-masts/lma-l-33ft-portable-telescopic-mast
[12:42] <junderwood> which doesn't need to be "installed"
[12:42] <junderwood> just put it up each time you need it
[12:42] <junderwood> no need to fall off a room
[12:42] <junderwood> s/room/roof/ (rofl)
[12:42] <Willdude123> Not now.
[12:42] <Willdude123> *Wait
[12:43] <Willdude123> Not working, 404 that's that I meant.
[12:43] <Willdude123> :)
[12:43] <Willdude123> Cant afford that.
[12:44] <junderwood> spend less on the antenna (there is a smaller discone which works just as well and is half the price)
[12:44] <Willdude123> Also, can I use the chimney monting kit on just the house?
[12:44] <Willdude123> I'm looking at a W-2000 atm.
[12:44] <mfa298> sometimes it's worth spending a little more. Buying the cheap option that fails in 6 months get's expensive - especially if it damanges the antenna / roof etc.
[12:44] <LazyLeopard> I found many so called professional aerial installation companies refused the job as soon as they realise it's not a standard TV aerial or satellite dish.
[12:44] <Willdude123> Also, can I use the chimney monting kit on just the house?
[12:44] <junderwood> WMD50 is fine
[12:45] <mfa298> Chimmney mounting kit *needs* a chimmney. They're designed to go around the chimmney
[12:45] <mfa298> if you're mounting to the side of the house you need something like a T&K kit
[12:45] <Willdude123> Yeah.
[12:45] <Willdude123> T&K kit?
[12:45] <mfa298> T and K brackets
[12:46] <mfa298> the smaller wall mount bracket screwfix have might also work but wont take as much weight
[12:46] <Willdude123> What's a gable end?
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[12:48] <Ugi> gable end = triangular bit of wall at the end of the roof
[12:48] <Willdude123> And how exactly would a pole screw into this T&K bracket?
[12:48] <Willdude123> Do they screw in.
[12:48] <S_Mark> Willdude123: Hi Will, whats the antenna for?
[12:49] <mfa298> normally you attach things with U bolts
[12:50] <mfa298> Willdude123: these are T&K brackets and you can just see the end of the U bolts http://www.aerialsandtv.com/_wp_generated/wp4c9043e4_01_1a.jpg
[12:50] <Willdude123> A w-2000 for 70cm
[12:50] <mfa298> Willdude123: you might find it's cheaper to get a 2/70 vertical and then make a dipole for 6m (if you're still interested in that)
[12:50] <S_Mark> right
[12:50] <Willdude123> And 6m and 2m
[12:51] <HixWork> hurrah, my stencil is "already process"
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> Woo!
[12:51] <Ugi> HixWork: sounds like progress!
[12:51] <Ugi> where (as in what country) is it coming from?
[12:54] <HixWork> HK
[12:55] <HixWork> www.smart-prototyping.com
[12:56] <HixWork> worked out to £26.27 GBP so just under double the cost of the acetate one. This is framed stainless. Much better
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[12:59] <ibanezmatt13> For a first Arduino, is the Uno the best one to get?
[13:00] <S_Mark> thats what i got first ibanezmatt13
[13:00] <ibanezmatt13> I'll get one of those then, thanks S_Mark
[13:01] <S_Mark> lots of examples on the web for it too
[13:01] <kokey> facebook is full of a video of someone's Kerbel Space Program failure
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: There are many clones - it's probably a better idea to get one of those - that have decent reviews. I also note there is #arduino
[13:03] <ibanezmatt13> thanks for the info. I've had a good look at all the other models but I think the Uno is fine for learning a bit of C.
[13:04] <ibanezmatt13> I like the PWM interface that the Pi doesn't really do. Well, it does but just not as easily
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> The Pi can do DMA output to GPIOs, this lets you run a lot of GPIOs in complex PWM
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> http://pythonhosted.org/RPIO/pwm_py.html
[13:05] <S_Mark> my first tracker was just an uno with a homemade sheild plugged in on top of it
[13:06] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, you can do a breaduino too
[13:06] <HixWork> basically an uno on a breadboard
[13:06] <ibanezmatt13> ah cool, will have a look thanks :)
[13:07] <HixWork> you got an FTDI cable a while back did you not [or is that my brain not working correctly again?]
[13:07] <ibanezmatt13> nope
[13:07] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Amadiro, \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\333333#
[13:07] <ibanezmatt13> that was probably Willdude
[13:08] <ibanezmatt13> Is rev 3 the latest Uno?
[13:08] <HixWork> ahh, that rules breaduino out then i think. you need to be able to program it
[13:08] <HixWork> all the info is on arduino.cc
[13:08] <ibanezmatt13> aye it is
[13:09] <S_Mark> yes r3
[13:09] <ibanezmatt13> Wow, just bought an uno rev 3 for only £13.02 including postage! At Farnell it was nearly £25.00
[13:09] <HixWork> win
[13:09] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.tmart.com/search.html?q=arduino+uno
[13:09] <ibanezmatt13> very win!
[13:10] <ibanezmatt13> if you want an Arduino get it from that place
[13:10] <S_Mark> looks good, got mine new from an ebay shop
[13:10] <HixWork> sneaky blighters "Arduino Compatible" but it will be perfectly fine
[13:10] <ibanezmatt13> good
[13:10] <ibanezmatt13> Just needed something for learning C :)
[13:10] <S_Mark> ah yeah thats a clone
[13:11] <ibanezmatt13> I'm sure it'll be fine
[13:11] <HixWork> yeah
[13:11] <HixWork> its still an ATMega at the end of the adya
[13:11] <ibanezmatt13> exactly
[13:11] <HixWork> *day
[13:11] <ibanezmatt13> So will I need any particular cables?
[13:11] <S_Mark> no just the one included
[13:12] <S_Mark> usb
[13:12] <ibanezmatt13> ah good, thanks
[13:12] <HixWork> type B
[13:13] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: you can learn C on a Pi or even windows although how you use it will be different to an arduino (you don't tend to go toggling hardware pins in windows C programs)
[13:14] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I've noticed I learned Python much easier on the Pi doing things with circuits. Plus, I quite like some of the features of the Arduino so should be good :)
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[13:16] <mfa298> if you're wanting to interface with electronics then arduino is probably the way to go then.
[13:19] <ibanezmatt13> yeah
[13:19] <ibanezmatt13> Any launches happening today?
[13:19] <ibanezmatt13> Is this pico going up?
[13:19] <mfa298> there's one at 4pm BST hopefully
[13:19] <x-f> hopefully up :)
[13:20] <ibanezmatt13> ah good
[13:20] <ibanezmatt13> So I guess I could use an Arduino for another HAB flight?
[13:21] <ibanezmatt13> Silly question, I think S_Mark used one
[13:21] <mfa298> a lot of people have used arduino as a starting point for HAB
[13:21] <ibanezmatt13> In fact, I'm gonna check what the power consumptions like on those things compared to the Pi
[13:22] <mfa298> should be much lower
[13:22] <ibanezmatt13> I guess it's still 5v
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[13:22] <S_Mark> www.stratodean.co.uk its all on there
[13:22] <mfa298> I think some arduino boards run the arduino at 5v (needing 5v logic gps) some at 3v3
[13:22] <ibanezmatt13> S_Mark, I've read that several times, really enjoyable to read
[13:22] <ibanezmatt13> I'll check it out
[13:23] <mfa298> it might be worth getting a 3v3 one as that should work with your existing gps board
[13:23] <ibanezmatt13> I'm still fine with getting a 5v GPS if not, I could do with having more than one anyway
[13:23] <S_Mark> yes or you'll have to get the 5v breakout
[13:23] <S_Mark> thanks :)
[13:24] <ibanezmatt13> I've already soldered the GPS onto a piece of stripboard anyway. It's not gonna be easy to get it out again anyway.
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[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, There is a 3v3 pin but just like the Pi it is limited to 50mA
[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> not great for the GOS
[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> GPS*
[13:26] <mfa298> it's the logic level that particularly matters
[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> 5v
[13:27] <mfa298> if the arduino runs on 5v it's logic high is likely to be 5v which is too high for the gps without logic converter
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> when I've gotten used to the Arduino platform and begin developing software for another HAB, I'll purchase another GPS from Upu, the 5v one :)
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> I'd be inclined for my next launch to use an Arduino as the tracker and the Pi for SSDV
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> Then I can if I recover it, reuse the GPS stripboard I already have
[13:29] <S_Mark> have you launched your first then ibanezmatt13 ?
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[13:29] <mfa298> the 5v gps does cost a bit more although it depends on how much that matters to you
[13:29] <ibanezmatt13> S_Mark, not yet
[13:29] <ibanezmatt13> I'm sure it'll be fine, I'll see what happens. A second launch wouldn't be soon after the first because I have A levels to study
[13:29] <HixWork> you could change the LDO and crystal on the arduino to make it a 3V3
[13:30] <S_Mark> it also depends if live images are really what you want? if you want high quality images and you arent bothered about the live aspect then just stick a digicam inside
[13:30] <ibanezmatt13> Not sure, I really like the idea of SSDV but I'll have to think about it. Might not even do it
[13:31] <S_Mark> could work up to that? first time could script a canon camera
[13:32] <ibanezmatt13> I've already got SSDV working perfectly. It's just, we don't have a spare HD digicam and we want to use the Pi Cam for HD video
[13:32] <mfa298> The real challenge is coming up with a new idea or approaching an existing way of doing things from a new angle.
[13:32] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, for the second one, I have a trick up my sleve...
[13:32] <S_Mark> agreed mfa298
[13:33] <mfa298> live video is probably the next challenge but that will be harder to do.
[13:33] <ibanezmatt13> Is that possible with the NTX2?
[13:34] <mfa298> the problem is having enough bandwidth especially as we're power limited.
[13:34] <ibanezmatt13> Ah, don't think that'd be possible then
[13:35] <ibanezmatt13> Is it legal to try and reach escape velocity with our payload box? :)
[13:35] <mfa298> video might happen if we can persaude ofcom to allow amateur radio from airborne but that will be limited to who can send up such payloads
[13:36] <S_Mark> lol as in reach orbit ?
[13:36] <ibanezmatt13> Why don't we try to send out payloads into space and back? I think Dave tried it once
[13:36] <ibanezmatt13> yeah :)
[13:36] <ibanezmatt13> A nice streamlined heat resistant aerodynamic capsule with solid rocket boosters
[13:37] <HixWork> re-entry is normally an issue
[13:37] <mfa298> plus firing a rocket safely from a moving platform could be interesting
[13:37] <mfa298> the register have a project to try and do something along those lines
[13:38] <PE2G> Afternoon all, what are the expectations for B-2's max altitude?
[13:38] <ibanezmatt13> that's what I read last night mfa298
[13:39] <Maxell> PE2G: 11:49:08 < Maxell> B-2's foil lauch, will it be high enough for us Dutchies to hear it?
[13:39] <Maxell> 11:50:16 < craag> Probably not unless it floats over that way.
[13:39] <Maxell> 11:50:23 < Maxell> Darn
[13:39] <Maxell> PE2G: I'm also intrested in the DomEX digital mode :-)
[13:39] <PE2G> Me too :)
[13:40] <PE2G> But it will float to the east...
[13:40] <Maxell> \o/
[13:42] <mfa298> oooh, there might be more spectrum being made available, question will be how much power and can it be used airborne: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/28/ofcom_commits_to_srd_release/
[13:42] <mfa298> 6MHz at 870MHz and 6MHz at 917MHz
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[13:43] <Maxell> Thats not bad.
[13:44] <ibanezmatt13> With these atmega chips, what are these things called crystals? Is it a component which allows it to base its time off?
[13:44] <Maxell> 1% dutch cycle stuff would suck :/
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[13:44] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: the crystal is what provide the timing pulses for the chip
[13:44] <mfa298> there's probably at least one on your pi doing the same thing
[13:44] <ibanezmatt13> I see they're rated in different frequencies
[13:45] <mattbrejza> yea dont expect 100% DC from that
[13:45] <mattbrejza> probbly on the same regs as 868
[13:45] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, why would the Pi have more than two?
[13:46] <ibanezmatt13> it does, but why does it need that?
[13:46] <mfa298> looking on the bottom of my Pi there are two crystals, they're the small silver things marked X1 and X2
[13:46] <Jess--> different clock rates required for different parts
[13:47] <Jess--> and no simple muliplier or divider possible to get from one freq to the other
[13:47] <mfa298> for the arduino the crytal will usually be rated for the same speed that the arduino runs
[13:47] <ibanezmatt13> can't find them
[13:47] <ibanezmatt13> oh it's to do with speed
[13:47] <ibanezmatt13> I see
[13:47] <ibanezmatt13> I was thinking something else
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[13:47] <mfa298> on my model B pi one is marked 25MHz and one is 19.2MHz
[13:48] <ibanezmatt13> not on here
[13:48] <ibanezmatt13> where on the board?
[13:48] <mfa298> on the bottom
[13:48] <ibanezmatt13> oh, I was on the top :P
[13:48] <Maxell> "overclocking" making the clock/crystal tick at a higher rate, get the chip to preform faster.
[13:49] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right, that makes sense. I see them now
[13:49] <ibanezmatt13> So there are two parts on the Pi rated at different speedS? GPU and CPU perhaps?
[13:49] <mfa298> you'll find them on almost anything digital that has some sort of clock
[13:50] <ibanezmatt13> i see
[13:50] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[13:50] <mfa298> one might be for the ethernet port or something else
[13:50] <ibanezmatt13> The ethernet port has a clock?
[13:51] <mfa298> lots of things will have a clock on the pi but they can potentially be generated from a few reference ones.
[13:51] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[13:51] <LeoBodnar> B-2 is launching in about 1 hour. It's a foil balloon with 1 gram free lift. It's a bit windy and and light drizzle here. How much precipitation affects foil balloons?
[13:51] <ibanezmatt13> I think I'm gonna have a read up on the ATMEGA328 to see the pinout
[13:52] <gonzo_> how much rain on the foil equals 1gm ?
[13:52] <craag> LeoBodnar: A lot :(
[13:52] <mfa298> so the CPU running at 700MHz (i think that's the normal speed) could be running at 28x 25MHz
[13:52] <Ugi> ibanezmatt13: Arduino is great because once you get the hang of it you can make your own compatible boards for almost nothing.
[13:52] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, the 328 working at 3v3 is 8MHz
[13:52] <LeoBodnar> Bummer.
[13:53] <craag> You're probably only going for 3-5g of free lift. Once you have 6g of water droplets on it, it's coming back down!
[13:53] <gonzo_> and be aware that all the rain from the balloon will drip down the string onto the payload
[13:53] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork, ah right, so the speed varies with current
[13:53] <ibanezmatt13> voltage*
[13:53] <HixWork> yeah
[13:53] <eroomde> daveake: that makes sense
[13:53] <HixWork> 16MHZ at 5v
[13:53] <eroomde> the breaking strain
[13:53] <Jess--> 25mhz is a fairly common one because it multiplies up well for cpu freqs (25 x 4 = 100mhz x 7 = 700 mhz etc) trouble is when multiplying up what can be a tiny error at the crystal freq (0.00000000001% error) can end up being a significant error at the wanted freq
[13:53] <Ugi> strictly the _max_ speed varies with voltage
[13:53] <eroomde> super finger in air, assuming a 1.5m diameter balloon in 20mpg wind
[13:53] <mfa298> if you find the 328 datasheet there's a graph / table that shows you the speeds vs voltage
[13:53] <eroomde> 20mph*
[13:54] <eroomde> the drag would be 0.5*air_density*velocity^2*Cd*area
[13:54] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, pinout http://i.imgur.com/JI7qcw2.png
[13:54] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[13:54] <eroomde> = 0.5*1.22*100[10m/sish squared]*0.3*pi*0.75^2
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[13:55] <daveake> eroomde yeah I'll take a look at the line this evening
[13:55] <griffonbot> Received email: Rick Hewett "[UKHAS] Re: Vague Launch Possibility Brightwalton 6th/7th July"
[13:55] <eroomde> = about 55N of drag
[13:55] <eroomde> or 5kg
[13:55] <eroomde> in combo with 4ish kg of lift
[13:55] <eroomde> you've little change from 10kg
[13:55] <daveake> yeah sounds very likely
[13:56] <eroomde> which puts it in the ballpark of breaking strain for helf the area of 25kg cord
[13:56] <daveake> yup
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[13:59] <Jess--> ibanezmatt13: the reason speed varies with voltage is because of the time it takes to switch a transistor from on to off within the chip, higher differences between gnd and vcc will give faster transitions and allow for faster operation (this is the reason most computer overclocking involves increasing the cpu voltage), inversely smaller differences mean slower transitions, this is the reason UPU's pava payloads (which run on 1.
[14:00] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, thanks for that information Jess--
[14:00] <Jess--> I hope it made sense
[14:00] <x-f> 1.8V, we lost you there, Jess--
[14:01] <ibanezmatt13> it does, just re reading it to secure my understanding
[14:01] <Jess--> for you x-f ..... this is the reason UPU's pava payloads (which run on 1.8v from memory) run the chip at 4 mhz
[14:01] <x-f> thanks :)
[14:02] <ibanezmatt13> I do recall him running a pava payload on one AA???
[14:02] <UpuWork> you do
[14:03] <Jess--> I believe he uses a step up regulator to supply 1.8v from any input above 0.9v
[14:03] <Jess--> afternoon UpuWork
[14:03] <ibanezmatt13> Hi UpuWork
[14:03] <UpuWork> hi
[14:04] <LeoBodnar> Hi UpuWork
[14:05] <Jess--> does my understanding of the pava payloads ring true UpuWork
[14:05] <Ugi> ibanezmatt13: when you get a feeling for Arduino, give me a yell before you go buying GPSs
[14:05] <Ugi> I have a 3v3 board that goes nicely with UPU's 3v3 GHPS
[14:05] <Ugi> GPS
[14:05] <LeoBodnar> UpuWork: I am sending Si4060s to you today.
[14:05] <Ugi> If it's working by then you could have one.
[14:05] <Ugi> I have way more than I need
[14:06] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, thank you very much, won't be any time soon though Ugi. Thanks! :)
[14:06] <Ugi> It's not a place to start learning Arduino
[14:06] <ibanezmatt13> oh god no, don't worry
[14:06] <Ugi> but it's quite neat once you have an idea what you are doing.
[14:07] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, can't wait
[14:07] <Ugi> Hopefully by then I can give you an example code to go with it too...
[14:08] <Ugi> makes coding a bit easier
[14:08] <Ugi> if you have something to start from
[14:08] <ibanezmatt13> I'll probably try to translate the code I already have into C or basically with my new knowledge just write my own from scratch. But if I get stuck, I'll let you know. Thanks :
[14:10] <Jess--> my first experience with arduino was building a 180A pwm motor controller with back emf feedback (back emf feedback means that the controller automatically increases or decreases motor power to match loading)
[14:10] <Jess--> apart from the heatsink on the fets it was small enough to fit in a matchbox
[14:10] <Ugi> that sounds like quite a big first project Jess--
[14:10] <Ugi> 180A!
[14:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Mike Willis "RE: [UKHAS] Re: Vague Launch Possibility Brightwalton 6th/7th July"
[14:11] <Jess--> 150A stall current on the motor it was controlling Ugi
[14:11] <LeoBodnar> A lot of TO-220 MOSFETs can do 250A peak.
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[14:11] <ibanezmatt13> That's a lot of current to be messing with
[14:11] <Ugi> that's a lot of juce
[14:13] <HixWork> ahh Ugi my MC55 boards arrived today :)
[14:13] <Ugi> Yes, I used a MOSFET in a project for PWM about 3A at one point and was slightly embarrased to discover it was rated to about 90A
[14:13] <Ugi> Yay!
[14:13] <HixWork> time to pray once the stencil arrives
[14:13] <Ugi> I give the e-bay guy an offer but he ignored me.
[14:13] <HixWork> the "no magic smoke prayer"
[14:13] <HixWork> hmm
[14:13] <Ugi> gave
[14:14] <Ugi> might think about shelling out the £30 - it's still a great deal
[14:14] <Ugi> it's jus that they are untested
[14:14] <Ugi> and I don't really need 10!
[14:14] <Ugi> but then I might in time
[14:14] <Ugi> I guess
[14:14] <HixWork> was that £30 for 10? I paid 150 for 10
[14:14] <HixWork> :/
[14:14] <Jess--> I wound up using 4 matched irfp044n paralleled (55v / 53A each)
[14:14] <Ugi> Yep £25 + £5 p&p. But noone is buying
[14:15] <Ugi> 'cos sold "untested"
[14:15] <Ugi> I would only really need 2-3 to work
[14:15] <Ugi> for it to be a good deal
[14:15] <HixWork> hmm, well if my boards work then i might get some
[14:15] <Ugi> did you use Eagle?
[14:16] <HixWork> yup
[14:16] <ibanezmatt13> when people use voltage as part of their datastring, is that the potential across the microcontroller they're using or is that the potential across the power supply?
[14:16] <Ugi> Could I snag the Eagle files from you at some stage?
[14:16] <LeoBodnar> Voltage is difference of potentials.
[14:17] <HixWork> sure, though I havve a couple of tweaks if they do work
[14:17] <Ugi> Fab' - no hurry.
[14:17] <ibanezmatt13> LeoBodnar, That's what I meant :)
[14:17] <Ugi> I have plenty to do on my basic tracker just now
[14:17] <LeoBodnar> You want battery voltage as MCU voltage is stable.
[14:17] <Ugi> and I haven't summoned up the budget to buy the MC55s yet
[14:18] <LeoBodnar> Or at least supposed to be if you are using regulators.
[14:18] <ibanezmatt13> thanks, thought it was
[14:18] <HixWork> hi LeoBodnar launch postponed until rain goes away?
[14:18] <Ugi> ibanezmatt13: I think the idea is to monitor the battery to see that there is life left in it
[14:18] <Ugi> if it goes down too fast then panic!
[14:18] <HixWork> damn, I completely forgot about voltage monitoring
[14:19] <HixWork> is there a schematic and sample code for that anywhere?
[14:19] <Ugi> HixWork: for what?
[14:19] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, just reading some info on the arduino.cc website and it says the voltage applied to the AREF pin (0 to 5V only) is used as the reference that's for external voltage reference
[14:19] <Ugi> HixWork: my plan is to use a simple voltage divider
[14:19] <Ugi> and the 1.1v internal ref on the '328
[14:20] <Ugi> ibanezmatt13: that's for the AtoD converter
[14:20] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[14:20] <Ugi> you then use a voltage divider to compare your battery voltage to that
[14:20] <Ugi> but it's the one part of my code I have not starte yet.
[14:20] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, thanks
[14:21] <HixWork> ahh. must read up on that
[14:22] <Ugi> in Arduino you need: analogReference(INTERNAL1V1);voltage=analogRead(voltPin);
[14:22] <Ugi> then scale
[14:23] <HixWork> ok cool, sounds relatively straighforward
[14:23] <Ugi> should be.
[14:23] <HixWork> ah, drat. that relies on the ADC pin being broken out.
[14:23] <Ugi> Sadly so.
[14:24] Action: HixWork hatches a very pikey bodge idea
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[14:24] <Ugi> surface mount?
[14:24] <HixWork> that requires steady ahnds and hot glue
[14:24] <HixWork> yeah TQFP
[14:24] <Ugi> Ah.
[14:24] <Ugi> that'll be fun.
[14:24] <HixWork> yeah. Can't wait ;p
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[14:25] <HixWork> PC0 through to PC5 correct?
[14:26] <Ugi> Yep.
[14:26] <Ugi> any of those will do.
[14:26] <eroomde> i've never beleived that a TO-220 could actually get 200A through it or whatever batty peak figures the manufacturers claim
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[14:26] <eroomde> maybe for the shortest possible time with some mega low inductance layout
[14:27] <eroomde> but for like DC-motor control timescales, it seems a bit optimistic
[14:28] <LeoBodnar> HixWork: No, 16:00 local time still holds.
[14:28] <HixWork> ah oki
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[14:29] <Ugi> in fact, why not bridge 2-3
[14:29] <Ugi> ;-)
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[14:32] <HixWork> perfect. none of those pins broken out anywhere :/ http://i.imgur.com/uEE19H9.jpg
[14:33] <Jess--> HixWork: link wire and a steady hand
[14:34] <Ugi> Seriously, it wouldn't matter if you soldered it to both PC2 & PC3.
[14:34] <HixWork> yup - and hot glue to cover the pro job ;p
[14:34] <Ugi> Wire-wrap wire is your friend
[14:34] <HixWork> not a bit of 1/0.6?
[14:35] <Ugi> You could probably use nearly anything - I like wire-wrap but that' just a personal thing.
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[14:36] <HixWork> as in stator warpping wire?
[14:38] <Ugi> This type of business - only you don't need 300m! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290912818223
[14:38] <Ugi> there is a curcuit--layout technique that uses this type of wire
[14:38] <Ugi> and a special wrapping tool
[14:39] <LeoBodnar> Leaving now
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[14:39] <Ugi> never actually used the wrapping method
[14:39] <Ugi> but the wire is very handy
[14:41] <Ugi> This is arguably a better example: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290875042701
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[14:55] <Ugi> Googling has just revealed that the apolo guidance computer was assembled using wire-wrap technology! If it's good enough for the moon....
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[14:57] <PE2G> B-2 has appeared on the map.
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[14:59] <S_Mark> cool actually at the track
[14:59] <S_Mark> does he work there?
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[15:00] <HixWork> yeah - on the business park adjacent
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[15:14] <GMT> any news of the launch, or are we in '-ish' time?
[15:15] <HixWork> 16:00 BST [ish]
[15:15] <HixWork> sorry misread that
[15:16] <iain__> is off
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[15:17] <LeoBodnar> B-2 is off but have Lta/Lon issues just like last time.
[15:18] <GMT> 'off' as in 'its launched'?
[15:18] <craag> Wow that is a slow ascent
[15:18] <iain__> looked like it but stuck
[15:19] <UpuWork> whats the issues ?
[15:20] <UpuWork> and float
[15:20] <UpuWork> :)
[15:20] <gonzo_> that must be the most prompt launch ever!
[15:20] <Maxell> Ah, B-2 is up :P
[15:20] <gonzo_> only 18 hab minutes late
[15:20] <G4MYS_Andy> is the projection correct?
[15:21] <UpuWork> doubt it will be set for 30km burst
[15:21] <UpuWork> general direction should be ok
[15:21] <iain__> Looks like I got time to go make coffee.
[15:21] <UpuWork> whats dial freq ?
[15:22] <LeoBodnar> 434.600MHz
[15:22] <UpuWork> ok I'll await its arrival :)
[15:22] <UpuWork> btw thx for Si4060's
[15:22] <UpuWork> just noticed that
[15:23] <gonzo_> doubt I well see it
[15:24] <GMT> nothing visible on my waterfall in w London
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[15:27] <UpuWork> cloud ?
[15:27] <GMT> what mode should I set on my scanner or SDR? - NFM, USB?
[15:27] <iain__> Not exactl climbing ver fast
[15:27] <iain__> usb
[15:27] <LeoBodnar> USB DominoEX16
[15:27] <gonzo_> seems to have topped out? Rain on the balloons?
[15:28] <mfa298> thats a low float if it's topped out.
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[15:29] <LazyLeopard> Ah. Needs to get a bit higher if I'm going to hear it, I think. :)
[15:29] <mfa298> does look like it has though, and it's moving away from me :(
[15:29] <G4MYS_Andy> and too low for mosr of us to track it!!!
[15:29] <junderwood> Much strangeness on the signal. Only have GPS coordinates on every third string (or so)
[15:29] Nick change: junderwood -> junderwood_M0JCU
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[15:32] <Ugi> from the map, it looks like it is sending out several strings a few seconds apart then pausing before the next batch.
[15:32] <UpuWork> still climbing
[15:32] <UpuWork> slowly
[15:32] <UpuWork> this is good
[15:33] <fsphil> might actually float
[15:33] <junderwood_M0JCU> Ugi, strings are coming out periodically but a lot have missing GPS coords
[15:33] <UpuWork> might just be making its way through cloud
[15:33] <iain__> GZH was decoding before the blue line, bodes well for Domino and s/n
[15:34] <db_g6gzh> yeah, seems quite resilient
[15:34] <fsphil> isn't dominoex16 slower than 50 baud rtty/
[15:34] <fsphil> ?
[15:34] <Ugi> junderwood_M0JCU: I guess that's why the tracker is not able to plot them!
[15:34] <PE2G> There is hope, here in NL
[15:34] <junderwood_M0JCU> fsphil, Looks about the same to me
[15:34] <junderwood_M0JCU> maybe slightly faster than 50 baud by eye
[15:36] <junderwood_M0JCU> LeoBodnar, what is the message which keeps appearing in dlfldigi after a successful upload?
[15:37] <junderwood_M0JCU> It looks like the complete payload spec :)
[15:37] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, an Easter egg :)
[15:37] <junderwood_M0JCU> How do you do that?
[15:38] <PE2G> Easy/difficult to decode the telemetry?
[15:38] <junderwood_M0JCU> Easy from here but I'm close.
[15:38] <iain__> Prediction going crazy
[15:38] <junderwood_M0JCU> No significant errors.
[15:39] <junderwood_M0JCU> Just the annoying flakey GPS
[15:39] <LazyLeopard> Got it!
[15:39] <junderwood_M0JCU> $$B-2,390,153605,52.21432,0.0,835,5,1.48,27*e5de
[15:39] <junderwood_M0JCU> $$B-2,391,153613,52.21543,-0.96604,840,5,1.48,27*083d
[15:39] <junderwood_M0JCU> $$B-2,392,153620,-0.0,-0.96527,847,5,1.47,27*6087
[15:39] <junderwood_M0JCU> $$B-2,393,153628,-0.0,-0.9643,845,5,1.47,27*fc7b
[15:39] <junderwood_M0JCU> $$B-2,394,153635,-0.0,0.0,851,5,1.47,27*667d
[15:39] <junderwood_M0JCU> $$B-2,395,153642,52.21925,0.0,857,5,1.47,27*0ffd
[15:40] <G4MYS_Andy> can we have exact frequency to listen on please
[15:40] <junderwood_M0JCU> As advertised
[15:40] <junderwood_M0JCU> 434.600
[15:40] <db_g6gzh> and stable too
[15:40] <junderwood_M0JCU> Locked to the GPS
[15:40] <G4MYS_Andy> spot on 600?
[15:40] <LeoBodnar> 434.600 with disciplined TCXO sho in theory +- 10Hz
[15:40] <db_g6gzh> ah
[15:40] <db_g6gzh> that explains it
[15:40] <gonzo_> is that dial freq or centre of data?
[15:40] <junderwood_M0JCU> show off!
[15:40] <Jess--> starting to appear in lincs now
[15:40] <db_g6gzh> very nice signal
[15:40] <junderwood_M0JCU> 434.6 dial
[15:41] Nick change: Jess-- -> Jess--M0VBR
[15:41] <LazyLeopard> 434.600 dial, 434.60135 centre of data
[15:41] <junderwood_M0JCU> Modem at +1512
[15:41] <G4MYS_Andy> thank you saves checking +-50kc!
[15:42] <HixWork> LeoBodnar, how does the TXCO link to the radio? indeed what are the components?
[15:43] <db_g6gzh> the URL is in the easter egg
[15:43] <junderwood_M0JCU> Going up rather quickly
[15:43] <iain__> Some sorta D/A probably.
[15:45] <mattbrejza> i would guess the TXCO connects to a radio, modified NTX2, RFM22b, or any of the other many ICs, then the shift done through the crystal pulling method driven by a DAC
[15:45] <mattbrejza> mind you TXCOs sometimes also have a tune input that can be used to modulate the output
[15:46] <db_g6gzh> screen cap of dl-fldigi from a while back http://album.dbrooke.me.uk/b-2.jpg
[15:47] <danielsaul> I like the data at the bottom
[15:47] <danielsaul> oooops
[15:47] <danielsaul> wrong channel
[15:47] Action: mfa298 realises there are slightly better chances of decoding if the radio is plugged into the laptop mic jack rather than the headphones jack
[15:48] <db_g6gzh> strange that the lat and long can have a 0 value independently
[15:49] <HixWork> its a pretty small payload from memory I think the RFM and NTX2 would be too big
[15:49] <LeoBodnar> Payload weight is 13.4 grammes: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-2/Images/8.jpg http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-2/Images/9.jpg
[15:50] <junderwood_M0JCU> ... and a welcome message every 100 strings
[15:50] <iain__> No AFC available with DominoEx on flidgi i see but sure it must be possible
[15:50] <junderwood_M0JCU> ID, Seq, UTC, Lat, Lon, Alt, Sat, Vbatt, TempC
[15:50] <junderwood_M0JCU> $$B-2,501,155006,52.34597,-0.86168,1748,4,1.46,25*909e
[15:50] <junderwood_M0JCU> $$B-2,502,155014,-0.0,-0.86058,1753,5,1.47,25*0869
[15:51] <LeoBodnar> I think the reason for the 0 coordinates is a bug in printf function. E.g. even digit in a specific decimal place would cause it to reset to zero.
[15:52] <GMT> still nothing heard in London. 8-(
[15:52] <LeoBodnar> This is why when it travels travels along it has "blackout" stripes that have 0 coordinate.
[15:52] <LeoBodnar> It is written in assembly - that's probably why :-|
[15:52] Action: LazyLeopard is getting it nicely here in SE London.
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[15:55] <HixWork> jesus LeoBodnar http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-2/Images/3.jpg ENIG too. flash git ;p
[15:55] <HixWork> thats obscenely compact
[15:56] <jarod> what that?
[15:56] <HixWork> 2.4g tracker
[15:56] <mfa298> that is (presumably) what's flying now
[15:56] <HixWork> yup
[15:57] <iain__> Very nice
[15:58] <mfa298> damn, I think it's moving away faster than it's ascending to the radio horizon isn't getting any closer :(
[15:58] <fsphil> no chance here
[15:58] <fsphil> these picos are no fun :)
[15:59] <GMT> I've been 'in the blue circle' for ages, but still no sign of a signal
[15:59] <mattbrejza> well that answers the radio question
[15:59] <mattbrejza> didnt realise you could get TCXOs in such small packages
[15:59] <mattbrejza> mind you the ublox has one
[15:59] <fsphil> solid?
[16:00] <G8KNN> dl-fldigi reporting an SNR of 2dB yet 100% green decodes!
[16:01] <junderwood_M0JCU> Same here. Haven't seen Domino since CUSF stopped using it
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[16:01] <mattbrejza> it has FEC right?
[16:01] <fsphil> optional
[16:01] <G8KNN> very impressive, and it sounds nice too :-)
[16:01] <fsphil> not used on this flight
[16:02] <mattbrejza> yea just checked in fldigi :P
[16:02] <PE2G> G8KNN: Impressive. I already love it.
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[16:02] <Ugi> my reading of wikipedia on these thins this morning suggests that this type of code can potentially be decoded _below_ the sig/noise threshold
[16:03] <Ugi> -10db sig/noise was mentioned IIRC
[16:03] <LeoBodnar> I am glad you like this! XD
[16:03] <mattbrejza> the sig/noise threshold being 0dB?
[16:03] <Ugi> As I understand it (which is very poorly).
[16:04] <mattbrejza> gps can be decoded below hte noise floor so meh
[16:04] <Ugi> they pre-arrange frequencies because youcan't find the signal in the noise
[16:04] <db_g6gzh> LeoBodnar: it's almost too easy to receive 8-)
[16:05] <g8gtz> Sounds similar to the JT modes
[16:05] <fsphil> the JT modes sound quite depressed
[16:05] <fsphil> the sort of tune marvin would whistle
[16:05] <eroomde> we talking about dominoEX?
[16:06] <g8gtz> Umm this is much more lively ;-)
[16:06] <eroomde> it always to me sounds like what an alien might sound like on the clangers
[16:06] <g8gtz> Getting good decodes on not much signal though
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[16:09] <iain__> Got alerted a local to me G7VRK and he decoded before blue too.
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[16:10] <junderwood_M0JCU> With lightweight, frequency-locked trackers like this you could start thinking about putting a serious number of balloons in the air at once
[16:10] <LeoBodnar> It's probably local terrain affecting certain areas as it is so low.
[16:10] <LeoBodnar> I have 15 PCBs left :-)
[16:10] <GMT> I think that it keeps hiding behind trees
[16:10] <GMT> do the PCBs do any other modes?
[16:11] <LeoBodnar> It did RTTY before I culled it.
[16:11] <GMT> I've never launched anything before, so I'd need to start with something simple such as rtty
[16:12] <HixWork> then boards must have cost a fair bit or did you work them into a job order?
[16:12] <Jess--M0VBR> LeoBodnar: why domino vs rtty?
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[16:12] <g8gtz> You are going to be upsetting GB3NR in Norwich on RB0 - it would be kind to try and stay clear of repeater inputs by say 12.5KHz rather than sit bang on the channel ;-)
[16:13] <LeoBodnar_> Is 434.6 Repeater freq?
[16:13] <mattbrejza> there was a time when seeed would give you something that wasnt HASL (i might have got something nicer due to luck i suppose)
[16:13] <G4MYS_Andy> more liky well be upset by anyone working through GB3NR!
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[16:13] <g8gtz> Actually NR is quite busy as is BN also on RB0 - input = 434.6 MHz
[16:14] <Upu> wow
[16:14] <Upu> seriously
[16:14] <G4MYS_Andy> well hopefuly we have no trackers in there coverage areas!
[16:14] <Upu> that is amazing
[16:15] <LeoBodnar_> What what what?
[16:15] <mfa298> the most it's likely to do is increase the noise floor for the repeater input by a very small margin, Chances are anyone unlocking their car nearby will de-sense the input more than the balloon payload does
[16:15] <Upu> its hardly visible on the waterfall
[16:15] <Upu> but decodes
[16:15] <LeoBodnar_> XD
[16:15] <Upu> reboot ?
[16:15] <g8gtz> Just suggesting it would be good to try be good neighbours, particularly as a lot of amateurs help out with high spec tracking stations ;-)
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[16:16] Nick change: Upu -> Upu_M0UPU
[16:16] <Willdude123> Hi.
[16:16] <LeoBodnar_> Please can some active UHF ham produce no-go areas in 434MHz slice?
[16:17] <LeoBodnar_> Could? Pleease?
[16:17] <G4MYS_Andy> AS most of us use high f gain colinears ( verticals ) we would get an untence squalking off the FM transmissions to the repeater(s) and likely unable to decode for this reason it is best not tobe on a 25Kc cahnnel from this freq up!
[16:17] <HixWork> LeoBodnar_, is this kind of thing used in RF noisy Car to pit telemetry?
[16:18] Nick change: GMT -> GMT_hearing_noth
[16:18] Nick change: GMT_hearing_noth -> GMT_hears_nowt
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[16:18] <Willdude123> What does the & bitwise thing do in C?
[16:18] <LeoBodnar_> No, this is purely HAM digimode. I have no idea what they use on the track. There are lots of antennas on the circuit - might scan around to see if I can pick something up.
[16:19] <Upu_M0UPU> sounds ace :)
[16:19] <mfa298> looks like the 0deg horizon has stopped teasing me and is now heading away :(
[16:19] <LeoBodnar_> But the beauty of DominoEX is that it is not critical to tuning errors compared to Olivia, Throb, etc.
[16:19] <g8gtz> See here - 70cms frequencies - 434.6 up in 25 KHz steps http://www.ukrepeater.net/repeaterlist0.htm
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[16:19] <LeoBodnar_> Cheers g8gtz - saved for perusing later
[16:20] Nick change: Steve___ -> Guest58432
[16:20] <G4MYS_Andy> are lokely to be data receing aerials the cars stream all aorts off data to there minders engine temp fuel levels all this kind of thing live pickys off course &etc
[16:20] <Willdude123> Does it evaluate if the first bit given is equal to the last?
[16:20] <g8gtz> Loads of room up there for all of us ;-)
[16:21] <G4MYS_Andy> There ois loads of room but funny how we all want to be on the same flaming channel!!!!
[16:21] <mattbrejza> Willdude123: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operation#AND to save us repeating a decent explaination :)
[16:21] <LazyLeopard> No life on 70cms here. ;)
[16:21] <g8gtz> No problem down your way Andy ;-(
[16:22] <mattbrejza> tbh on all the .650 flights (right in the middle of repeaters), ive never heard of any issues
[16:22] <HixWork> LeoBodnar_, appears to have a great recovery device for payloads, it appears too http://goo.gl/1S27y
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[16:22] <G4MYS_Andy> Lazy L try looking between the 25kc slots... find a carrier and monitor it you may be surprised as one in a while someone will say sommit!!
[16:22] <g8gtz> I don't want to get in to a debate just beleive we should try to be good neighbours to avoid any probs...
[16:23] <mfa298> I had issues once on 650 (one of the few times the repeater portsmouth way on 70cms was active - and that was only when someone closer was using it.
[16:23] <mattbrejza> i think if a balloon and a repeater clash the balloon is gonna lose
[16:24] <Upu_M0UPU> hey Leo
[16:24] <mattbrejza> (or at least hte listener near the repeater)
[16:24] <LazyLeopard> Local 70cms repeater went to 9MHz split before the Olympics and stayed there.
[16:24] <G4MYS_Andy> the 70cm repeater on the isle of wight was jammed by crane advoid-ance data! Gb3PH lost it site now off air
[16:24] <Upu_M0UPU> where is it getting thank you for tracking from ?
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[16:24] <mattbrejza> keeping away from repeaters is not gonna happen while one of the ntx2 frequenies is .650
[16:24] <Upu_M0UPU> the message that appears in the bottom
[16:24] <Maxell> Hows the DomEX reception doing?
[16:24] <LeoBodnar_> I have been monitor 434.600 for awhile and it is clean here
[16:24] <Upu_M0UPU> great
[16:24] <LeoBodnar_> ing
[16:25] <Jess--M0VBR> set and forget for reception here
[16:25] <iain_g4sgx> VHF/UHF contest coming up, will be very busy then
[16:25] <G4MYS_Andy> Problem is a 70cM repater can be almost silent for weeks then 2 o hams find it and oplay on the damm thing for hours or even days thats when we will get a problem
[16:25] <Upu_M0UPU> LeoBodnar in the bottom of dl-fldigi it is saying thanks for tracking and has lots of info where is it getting that from ?
[16:26] <LazyLeopard> It's well garbled in places. ;)
[16:26] <G4MYS_Andy> Gretting a "Ticking" is that it?
[16:26] <eroomde> you might be tuned slightly off
[16:26] <LeoBodnar_> Lol HixWork
[16:27] <eroomde> and just picking up the high freq components of the transitions
[16:27] <G4MYS_Andy> like a small dag yapping
[16:28] <Upu_M0UPU> morse
[16:28] <LeoBodnar_> Upu_M0UPU: this is a "side channel" in DominoEX protocol. It is used for... well this is what it is used for :-)
[16:28] <db_g6gzh> Upu_M0UPU: there seemto be a few characters before each $$ but I don't know how he's sending them to that box
[16:28] <Upu_M0UPU> now you're just showing off
[16:28] <Upu_M0UPU> nice :)
[16:28] <Upu_M0UPU> you seem to be sending more data in the side channel than the main one :)
[16:28] <LeoBodnar_> Just to hint if somebody does not know what the heck this signal is.
[16:29] <Upu_M0UPU> anyway congrats great success
[16:29] <G4MYS_Andy> what does our signal look like?
[16:29] <mfa298> G4MYS_Andy: I don't think so (although I'm hearing something very similar from just up the road)
[16:30] <LeoBodnar_> It's an idle transmission when MCU is busy else where (like getting Lat/Lon wrong) - like deedle-deedle in RTTY
[16:30] <G4MYS_Andy> mfa298 OK guess your hear it before me mate!
[16:30] <G8KNN> It's not very tolerant to frequency shifts though. A 10Hz shift in rx dial causes a red decode.
[16:30] <mattbrejza> so domx is a form of trellis coded modulation?
[16:30] <db_g6gzh> G4MYS_Andy: http://album.dbrooke.me.uk/b-2.jpg
[16:31] <Upu_M0UPU> http://i.imgur.com/s9hCMRv.jpg
[16:31] <mfa298> G4MYS_Andy: I'm not in a great position for hearing various flight. I'm on te wrong side of the building unfortunately. Although looking at the 0 degree horizon it looks like the chances are dropping.
[16:31] <G4MYS_Andy> G6GZH very usefull thanks
[16:31] <Jess--M0VBR> G4MYS_Andy: this is what you are listening for http://www.k3dcw.net/web_media/DomEx16.wav
[16:31] <mfa298> G4MYS_Andy: I tend to look at how well ASTRA is doing as thats on a Uni building and usually does well
[16:32] <G4MYS_Andy> M0VBR that Forbidden to me!!!! ( wow whats she like ?)
[16:32] <G4MYS_Andy> Mfa 298 you relly in the big block?
[16:33] <eroomde> mattbrejza: yes that's correct
[16:33] <mattbrejza> mfa298: did you get any decodes?
[16:33] <Jess--M0VBR> http://www.k3dcw.net/index.php?p=1_4_Digital-Mode-Samples click on the entry for dominoEX 16
[16:33] <Willdude123> Argh. http://pastie.org/8103877
[16:33] <mfa298> G4MYS_Andy: yes, but unfortunately facing the avenue so the block gets in the way
[16:33] <Willdude123> I figured out what the bitwise and does.
[16:33] <mattbrejza> so even without fec the trellis coding still means there is some sort of error correction
[16:33] <Willdude123> And I'm shifting the bits.
[16:33] <Willdude123> Hence line 20.
[16:33] <eroomde> mattbrejza: yus
[16:34] <Willdude123> Serial output is R111
[16:34] <eroomde> well, correction if it's assymetric
[16:34] <HixWork> time to go time. later peoples
[16:34] <eroomde> if it's symetric bit probability you just say 'em, it's wrong'
[16:34] <mfa298> mattbrejza: unfortunately I didn't I think it was probably just too far to the east for me to get LoS
[16:34] <Willdude123> It's almost as if it's stuck in an infinite loop.
[16:35] <mfa298> Willdude123: how many times does it print out 1 per character (and how many times should it print out a 1 or 0 )?
[16:36] <LeoBodnar_> G8KNN: don't point and clic, use left/right arrows around the centre freq to shift RX modem frequncy
[16:36] <Willdude123> Per character? Err. Well, it prints it thrice.
[16:36] <Willdude123> It should do 8
[16:37] <mattbrejza> mfa298: i had it for a bit, then it drifted away
[16:38] <mfa298> mattbrejza: I saw ASTRA appear a few times on there. The circle made it to around twyford so was probably just on the horizon for us in reality
[16:38] <Willdude123> mfa298: Is that correct?
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[16:39] <mfa298> Willdude123: 8 is the correct number. So what can you deduce from the fact it didn't print enough characters ?
[16:39] <mattbrejza> if you knew two bits with decent certainty, but the middle one is unsure, then you should be able to correct the middle one, as there is only one valid path on the trellis
[16:39] <M0CJM_Neil> What freq we on guys for B-2?
[16:39] <Willdude123> That it's missing 5 bits from R and it's getting stuck.
[16:39] <Jess--M0VBR> 434.6 dead
[16:39] <M0CJM_Neil> Cool
[16:39] <Willdude123> Or maybe I'm shifting the wrong way.
[16:40] <Willdude123> No, I'm not.
[16:40] <G8KNN> LeoBodnar_:thanks. Was just checking its tolerance to small frequency shifts
[16:40] <M0CJM_Neil> Hi Willdude123
[16:40] <Willdude123> Hi
[16:40] <M0CJM_Neil> Nowt being received down this way :-(
[16:40] <mfa298> Willdude123: at this point it shouldnt matter which way your shifting you should get 8 bits some of which will be 0 and some 1
[16:40] <Willdude123> Ah yeah
[16:41] <mfa298> this should tell you which bit of code isn't working as you expect it to work
[16:41] <LeoBodnar_> Cheers for tracking guys, really appreciate it as I am not chasing this one.
[16:41] <Willdude123> mfa298: I don't understand where or why it's getting stuck.
[16:41] <G8KNN> Having a GPS locked reference seems to be key to this working for HAB
[16:41] <Willdude123> It's the same (in principle) as your code :)
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[16:42] <M0CJM_Neil> g8gtz I see your not far from me
[16:42] <mfa298> Willdude123: there's a few bugs in there, the first one to work out is why you dont show all the bits for the character
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[16:44] <arko> for people who like control systems http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo9wEV3oj5M&feature=player_embedded
[16:44] <arko> http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/artificial-intelligence/darpa-vrc-followup-competition-videos-bloopers-and-reddit-ama#.UdLyJ-S_GZ4.reddit
[16:44] <arko> some of these are hilarious
[16:44] <mattbrejza> im confused by a ieee url that has reddit in it
[16:45] <arko> hehe
[16:45] <Willdude123> mfa298: I will try.
[16:46] <mfa298> Willdude123: From the fact that there should be 8 bits but you only print out 3 can you deduce which bit of code isn't working as it should ?
[16:46] <Willdude123> The for(int bits=0;bits<=8;bits++) bit
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[16:47] <Willdude123> But why?
[16:47] <mfa298> you could confirm that with a couple of print statements (that's why in my code it had a print at the start and end of that block)
[16:47] <arko> mattbrejza: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo9wEV3oj5M&feature=player_embedded&t=1m21s
[16:48] <arko> best part
[16:49] <mattbrejza> well he got in
[16:49] <arko> lol
[16:49] <arko> you know the developers were like "f it, just make him swan dive in"
[16:50] <M0CJM_Neil> Ahh great, some guys come up on repeater input freq of 434.6!
[16:50] <Willdude123> OK. It Txes over serial the character it's doing, and then TX the bits over serial.
[16:50] <Willdude123> What else?
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[16:51] <ibanezmatt13> Good Evening :)
[16:51] <g8gtz> Yep - me too somebody on the input of GB3BN!
[16:52] <ibanezmatt13> Not looking great for B-2
[16:52] <g8gtz> m0cjm - yes, in Basingstoke
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[16:53] <LeoBodnar_> Why's that ibanezmatt13 ?
[16:53] <ibanezmatt13> looks like a North Sea landing could happen from what I can see
[16:53] <M0CJM_Neil> g8gtz Yeah I am out in Oakley! Yeah, just looked it up, BN input freq :-(
[16:54] <g8gtz> I'm in Kempshott but my remore gear is at the GB3ET site...
[16:54] <mfa298> Willdude123: as a reminder this is what my version looks like and it's output http://pastie.org/private/zb6yx74kticuigtshmil8a
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[16:54] <Willdude123> Oh hi g8gtz
[16:54] <ei4esb> POP1 on map, is there frequency?
[16:54] <M0CJM_Neil> Ahh I see the location on the map was on the Newbury road! I wondered what was going on
[16:55] <g8gtz> willdude123 Hi - you're both in Oakley...
[16:55] <M0CJM_Neil> Yep 2 Oakley Boyz on here :-)
[16:56] <g8gtz> GB3BN input clear now - just audible and getting decodes ;-)
[16:56] <M0CJM_Neil> I think I can just hear someting bu very very weak with me
[16:56] <g8gtz> 19 ele Tonna & mast head pre-amp helps
[16:57] <craag> Hi All, hows the dominoex?
[16:57] <Upu_M0UPU> super craag
[16:57] <g8gtz> Brill
[16:57] <mfa298> Willdude123: you might want to look through my version, write down on a piece of paper what you think it should do and compare that to the output. You might also want to look up what R is in binary
[16:57] <Upu_M0UPU> everyone should use it
[16:57] <craag> :)
[16:57] <G8KNN> Just had dl-fldigi decoding reliably down to about -15dB SNR
[16:57] <Upu_M0UPU> I can turn the antenna totally away from it, can hardly see it in the waterfall
[16:57] <Upu_M0UPU> and it still decodes
[16:57] <craag> Fantastic, any downsides?
[16:58] <Upu_M0UPU> hard to do
[16:58] <craag> Yeah, tx is more difficult
[16:58] <G8KNN> I wonder how it would survive a burst :)
[16:58] <Upu_M0UPU> however I have a board with an LMT2 on it and a 16 bit DAC coming
[16:58] <mattbrejza> well, you just need to use a slightly more expensive XL and a DAC
[16:58] <Willdude123> There. I have a bajillion print statements, and still no clue. http://pastie.org/8103933
[16:59] <LeoBodnar_> ibanezmatt13: The plan is to lose it in the North Sea
[16:59] <ibanezmatt13> Oh right, how come?
[16:59] <Upu_M0UPU> the test is over ibanezmatt13 :)
[16:59] <M0CJM_Neil> Nearly geting decodes here...
[16:59] <craag> Right, off out with the yl. Nice one LeoBodnar_ !
[16:59] <LeoBodnar_> IT's almost disposable: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-2/
[17:00] <ibanezmatt13> that is pretty small
[17:00] <Willdude123> M0CJM_Neil: Did I tell you my dad wants to avoid oakley aerials.
[17:00] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar_, like the chip antenna position
[17:00] <mattbrejza> just looked up and flidigi flashed green
[17:00] <M0CJM_Neil> Why does the info bar along the bottom that usually says "uploaded telemetry blah blah blah" now just a load of gobbeldy gook!
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[17:00] <mattbrejza> must be going up
[17:01] <jonsowman> M0CJM_Neil: what does it say?
[17:01] <M0CJM_Neil> Willdude123 Oh OK, why?
[17:01] <SteveG7vrk> Hi all new this cant stay got things to do but will radio on and come back later see how it going
[17:01] <iain_g4sgx> Now getting reliable decodes at -17db s/n
[17:01] <mfa298> Willdude123: the trick is getting the print statements in a useful place and also understanding what they should give. I'd suggest taking a look at the version I wrote, work out what you think it should do, Look at what the output really is and then try to work out which bit isn't working as it should.
[17:01] <mattbrejza> im not conviced at the accuracy of flidigi's SNR meter tbh
[17:01] <LeoBodnar_> How does dl-fldigi calculates S/N?
[17:01] <jonsowman> mattbrejza: lol same
[17:02] <M0CJM_Neil> jonsowman Just a load of gobbeldy gook, I cant copy & paste but just andom letters and symobols
[17:02] <mattbrejza> is this the ratio of signal between the red lines to the noise in the entire 3kHz?
[17:02] <LeoBodnar_> How do I know if it pierced the cloud cover? Without the light sensor...
[17:02] <jonsowman> interesting
[17:02] <M0CJM_Neil> I can email you screenshot if you want
[17:02] <mattbrejza> LeoBodnar_: dew point sensor? :P
[17:03] <M0CJM_Neil> was fine on all other balloon decodes over weekend
[17:03] <Willdude123> M0CJM_Neil: He knew him.
[17:03] <LeoBodnar_> You can limit the top b/w to say 2kHz if you don't use it - should improve S/N then
[17:03] <Willdude123> M0CJM_Neil: A crook, apparently.
[17:03] <M0CJM_Neil> Oh Ok :-) Horizon aerials in town then
[17:03] <Willdude123> mfa298: I have no clue.
[17:03] <Willdude123> I've put them in a useful place.
[17:03] <mfa298> Willdude123: have you looked at my version and written down what you think it should have done ?
[17:04] <LeoBodnar_> Can't find this setting now :-|
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[17:04] <Ugi> Gotta go guys
[17:05] <Ugi> TTFN
[17:05] <LeoBodnar_> Cheers Ugi
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[17:06] <iain_g4sgx> Must say Im impressed with its peformance, a tad quicker may be worth a go too
[17:06] <Willdude123> I think it should have done Sending "RTTY\n", 5 ; then bindary for R, T, T and Y
[17:07] <Willdude123> And \n
[17:08] <LeoBodnar_> iain_g4sgx: higher ascent rate?
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[17:08] <mfa298> When it print out the R looking at my version does it go through all the bits ?
[17:09] <Willdude123> Yeah
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[17:09] <mfa298> so from that you can conclude the for loop is going through all 8 bits, yes?
[17:10] <iain_g4sgx> LeoBodnar_: I was tinking of data rate, seems quite resilient
[17:10] <mfa298> have you looked up the binary for the letter R ?
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[17:11] <LeoBodnar_> Next rate up needs a different TCXO frequency which is unobtanium for now.
[17:11] <Willdude123> mfa298: yes and yes
[17:11] <mfa298> G4MYS_Andy: looks like the horizon is heading back over soton so it might be recievable
[17:12] <LeoBodnar_> I was tempted to use DominoEX8 which twice slower but has 3dB better S/N decoding threshold.
[17:12] <Willdude123> 0101 0010
[17:12] <LeoBodnar_> But it is as slow as RTTY 50.
[17:12] <G4MYS_Andy> mfa 298 Yes but thosse who receive are well within the blue line!
[17:13] <mfa298> Willdude123: so you've got the three 1's being matched. So can you determine which bit isn't working ?
[17:13] <G4MYS_Andy> and its about to go bang!!!
[17:13] <Willdude123> 0
[17:13] <fsphil> ah it's still in the air
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[17:13] <Willdude123> M0CJM_Neil: Do you subscribe to the link?
[17:13] <mfa298> G4MYS_Andy: ASTRA is on the uni campus and doing well. Just depends if you've got anything in the way that blocks the signal
[17:13] <G4MYS_Andy> ok 10 miles off i suspect we wont hear it in southampton
[17:13] <LeoBodnar_> It's foil balloon so [almost] totally unpredictable.
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[17:14] <G4MYS_Andy> basett is inthe way!!!!
[17:14] <Willdude123> Right. I know where the problem is, now I need to find what it is.
[17:14] <mfa298> Willdude123: so have you worked out which bit of code isn't working ?
[17:14] <Willdude123> yeah
[17:14] <Willdude123> if(datastring[x] &0){
[17:14] <Willdude123> digitalWrite(13,0);
[17:14] <Willdude123> Serial.println("Bit: 0");
[17:14] <mfa298> Willdude123: that's the bit.
[17:15] <iain_g4sgx> LeoBodnar_ What transmitter does it use? How does it produce the tones, via an D2A?
[17:15] <mfa298> what you want to look up is what datastring[x] &0 is actually doing
[17:15] <LeoBodnar_> I might have got TX levels mixed up. This is very new fresh design - lot's of things to go wrong (and they did.)
[17:15] <mfa298> if you've done any digial electronics think of the logic tables for an and gate
[17:16] <M0CJM_Neil> Willdude123 Nope, never heard of the link
[17:16] <Willdude123> Oakley magazine.
[17:16] <M0CJM_Neil> umm no. You have to pay for it?
[17:16] <Willdude123> It said we're getting fibre.
[17:16] <LeoBodnar_> It modulates the signal via PLL synth and keeps freq aligned with GPS through this as well. Pulling TCXO is too severe. Upu_M0UPU is going to try pulling the freq via 16 bit DAC and I am sure it will work.
[17:17] <Willdude123> Yeah
[17:17] <mfa298> lol, the building caretaker finally noticed I had an antenna hanging out the window, only taken around a year
[17:17] <M0CJM_Neil> Nope never hear dof the link but thats good if we do BUT BT Openreach doesnt say anything about it being planne don their website
[17:17] <Willdude123> BT signed a contract with HCC
[17:18] <M0CJM_Neil> I will look on openreach website
[17:18] <LeoBodnar_> iain_g4sgx: Si4460 or Si4060 if you will.
[17:18] <Willdude123> mfa298: I understand it, after wikipediaing it.
[17:18] <Willdude123> But it's hard to explane.
[17:18] <Willdude123> *explain
[17:19] <mattbrejza> LeoBodnar_: is the minium shift on those ICs small enough then?
[17:19] <Willdude123> I found this and I kinda understand it:
[17:19] <mattbrejza> i seem to remember the rfms being way too big
[17:19] <LeoBodnar_> Yes mattbrejza
[17:20] <Willdude123> bit a bit b a & b (a AND b)
[17:20] <Willdude123> 0 0 0
[17:20] <Willdude123> 0 1 0
[17:20] <Willdude123> 1 0 0
[17:20] <Willdude123> 1 1 1
[17:20] <Willdude123> Oops.
[17:20] <Willdude123> The table for it.
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[17:20] <LeoBodnar_> In fact twice smaller than necessary
[17:20] <mattbrejza> personally i would try crystal pulling - although im not too sure how the varactor is affected by temperature
[17:20] <mattbrejza> although tcxos have a tune pin
[17:21] <mattbrejza> currently trying to find how much is a typical tuning range
[17:21] <Willdude123> So if datastring[x]=0 and 0=0 then it evaluates to 0 so we aren't going thru the loop. mfa298
[17:21] <mfa298> Willdude123: that sounds like you've understood it
[17:22] <mattbrejza> 10ppm ish, so seems doable that way too
[17:22] <LeoBodnar_> I don't like to inject spectral noise over XTAL input but of course we are not that finicky on UHF.
[17:22] <Willdude123> So how to fix? Replace with =0?
[17:22] <mattbrejza> crystal pulling seems very clean to me
[17:22] <mattbrejza> depends how much you filter the signal too
[17:23] <LeoBodnar_> mattbrejza: DominoEX tone spacing is 0.018 ppm
[17:23] <mfa298> Willdude123: there's an easier method, how many states can the bit have ?
[17:23] <Willdude123> 2
[17:23] <Willdude123> 0,1 commonly referred to as False, True.
[17:23] <mattbrejza> you can adjust the 'gain' of a crystal pulling network by the series cap though, which will help
[17:24] <M0CJM_Neil> Willdude123 BT Openreach says no current plans for Fibre ;-(
[17:24] <mattbrejza> i reckon it can be done, annoyingly i put a regular crystal footprint on my lastest board
[17:24] <mfa298> Willdude123: so how else could you write the two if statements ?
[17:24] <daveake> Willdude123 I think you'll find that if (anything AND FALSE) is always .... FALSE
[17:24] <LeoBodnar_> Also, does PLL loop has large enough b/w? VCO might keep going and going after you have changed the ref input
[17:24] <Willdude123> mfa298: Err.
[17:25] <Willdude123> What's wrong with "="?
[17:25] <mattbrejza> well its worked well so far :P (600Hz rtty mind you)
[17:25] <M0CJM_Neil> Just had my first green decode
[17:25] <mfa298> with == you'll be comparing the whole byte not just one bit
[17:25] <Willdude123> http://www.oakleydeane-pc.gov.uk/Oakley-Deane-Parish-Council/broadband_news-1918.aspx
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[17:25] <LeoBodnar_> Look closely, can you see the TCXO bodge mattbrejza? :) http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-2/Images/6.jpg
[17:26] <mattbrejza> ah yes
[17:26] <mattbrejza> always annoying
[17:26] <eroomde> LeoBodnar_: lol!
[17:26] <Willdude123> mfa298: I'm not sure.
[17:26] <LeoBodnar_> mattbrejza: the good thing with pulling is you preserve coherency and phase jumps.
[17:26] <Willdude123> Bitwise OR? maybe
[17:27] <LeoBodnar_> Proper TCXO layout PCBs are coming later this week.
[17:27] <mattbrejza> yea to me pulling has always seemed nicer than reprogramming the PLL, but then it depends on the PLL
[17:27] <mfa298> Willdude123: try it this way, if the bit isn't 1 what is it ?
[17:27] <LeoBodnar_> Analogue ftw!
[17:27] <Willdude123> 0
[17:27] <Willdude123> AH
[17:27] <Willdude123> Else.
[17:27] <eroomde> LeoBodnar_: Look closely, can you see the TCXO? https://www.dropbox.com/s/9www6tzkm6i9e47/2013-05-24%2018.48.49.jpg
[17:27] <LeoBodnar_> Agree. If it work, great.
[17:27] <mfa298> Willdude123: that's the one.
[17:27] <mattbrejza> btw how do you do the gps syncing thing? also probably not necessary given the tcxo?
[17:28] <LeoBodnar_> Yeah, I was going to post this but lost your link from a few weeks ago. XD
[17:28] <eroomde> always the damn crystals
[17:29] <LeoBodnar_> I am using 1PPS output as a reference gate interval and calculate necessary correction for PLL base frequency
[17:29] <Willdude123> OK
[17:29] <M0CJM_Neil> Willdude123 Just signed up, looks good!!
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[17:29] <mattbrejza> ah right
[17:30] <eroomde> LeoBodnar_: with filtering of the cycles/sec count?
[17:30] <Willdude123> But this is the output http://pastie.org/8104037
[17:30] <Willdude123> Which isn't binary for R
[17:30] <LeoBodnar_> II guess TCXO inside UBLOX is not synched to GPS? They probably correct for the drift in FW?
[17:31] <M0CJM_Neil> Getting several good decodes now
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[17:31] <eroomde> LeoBodnar_: probably yes
[17:31] <eroomde> that's certainly how i did it
[17:31] <eroomde> from which i can tell that the tcxo is good to about 0.1ppm
[17:31] <eroomde> which is not bad
[17:31] <LeoBodnar_> Yes, just LP filter to slowly pull freq back. DominoEX is reliant on frequency shifts between the chips so step change will break a few chars.
[17:31] <LeoBodnar_> I am doing the correction between sentences.
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[17:32] <eroomde> indeed - used it on a hab a few years ago (just lifted the dlfldigi code)
[17:32] <eroomde> but with a DAC to an ntx2
[17:32] <Willdude123> mfa298: Do i need to reset bits to 0 at the end ?
[17:32] <Willdude123> But seriously.
[17:32] <LeoBodnar_> chips = bits or whatever they are called in DominoEX.
[17:33] <Willdude123> There are 9 bits reported.
[17:33] <mfa298> Willdude123: that is the right output, it's sent LSB (Least Significant bit) first which means it starts at the right end of the binary you gave earlier
[17:33] <Willdude123> Right.
[17:33] <ibanezmatt13> anybody know what the power rating for a 5v arduino uno is?
[17:33] <Willdude123> So it does it the wrong way>
[17:33] <mfa298> Willdude123: well done you spotted bug #2 :D
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[17:34] <mfa298> Willdude123: it's the right way for RTTY. different ways of sending data will be LSB or MSB (Most significant bit)
[17:34] <M0CJM_Neil> LeoBodnar_ Where is all the info coming from in the box under the waterfall regarding this flight??
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[17:35] <Willdude123> So how come it's the wrong output? And there are 9?
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[17:38] <mfa298> the output is correct for RTTY, In normal decimal numbers 2013 the 3 (units) is the Least Significant number and the 2 is the Most significant number (thousands) for RTTY you start at the least significant number the 3 in that case.
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[17:38] <Willdude123> mfa298: OK, but why is it giving 9 bits?
[17:38] <mfa298> which bit of your code controls how many bits to send ?
[17:39] <Willdude123> Ah
[17:39] <Willdude123> The for loop.
[17:39] <Willdude123> It should start on 1
[17:39] <Willdude123> Not 0
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[17:40] <Willdude123> Right. Got it, but it only does R.
[17:40] <Willdude123> Also how do I set the baud rate?
[17:40] <LeoBodnar_> M0CJM_Neil: it is a secondary comms channel in DominoEX mode. You specify what to send to the main screen and what to the ticker line.
[17:40] <PB0NER> just to confirm, receive USB?
[17:40] <mfa298> normally counting starts at 0 but it will continue running whilst the middle part is true. Changing the initialisation to 1 will work but isn't the way most programmers would do it
[17:41] <mfa298> a better way would be to change the test (either by changing how it tests or the value it tests for)
[17:41] <LeoBodnar_> Yes PB0NER
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[17:42] <PB0NER> LeoBodnar_, thx
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[17:44] <Willdude123> Now I need to get it to loop.
[17:44] <Willdude123> For the other chars.
[17:44] <fsphil> still ascending
[17:44] <fsphil> it must be near its limit
[17:44] <iain_g4sgx> Think it'll float?
[17:45] <mfa298> Willdude123: this might be the harder one to work out.
[17:46] <fsphil> I'm usually wrong with predictions ... so, no I think it'll rip
[17:46] <fsphil> (hoping for a float)
[17:46] <Willdude123> Do I need to reset bits to 0 at the end of the char loop?
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[17:47] <LeoBodnar_> I hope it floats but just as I am saying probably BOOM!
[17:47] <mfa298> what you need to try to understand is what the datastring[x]>>1 is doing to your string and how strlen detects the end of a string.
[17:47] <fsphil> yea I don't think it will, but these are so tricky to predict
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[17:47] <PE2G> How does this foil behave at low temps?
[17:47] <Willdude123> Well, with a byte equal to 0.
[17:48] <Willdude123> So maybe an if datastring[x]==0 then reset bits.
[17:48] <mfa298> and what does datastring[x]>>1 do to the first byte in your string ?
[17:49] <Willdude123> Shift it left.
[17:50] <fsphil> wrong way
[17:50] <Willdude123> Shift it right.
[17:50] <mfa298> what does it do to the other end ?
[17:50] <Willdude123> Shift it right.
[17:50] <fsphil> what happens the bit that gets shifted of the end?
[17:51] <Willdude123> It becomes readable.
[17:51] <PB0NER> AHL XA,0x04
[17:51] <mfa298> you had 0101 0010 you shift it right (so take the 0 off the right hand end) what happens to the left hand end ?
[17:51] <PB0NER> SHL XA,0x04
[17:51] <Willdude123> A 0 is added maybe?
[17:51] <mfa298> Willdude123: correct
[17:52] <Upu_M0UPU> wow
[17:52] <Upu_M0UPU> why hasn't that burst
[17:52] <Upu_M0UPU> 36" Qualatex LeoBodnar ?
[17:52] <mfa298> so after you've shifted all 8 bits out what does that byte look like ?
[17:52] <fsphil> I think it's about to
[17:52] <Willdude123> How do I know if it's just a 0 or if it's an ending 0?
[17:52] <LeoBodnar_> Yes Upu_M0UPU because payload is so light
[17:52] <Willdude123> What is DominoEX 16 ?
[17:52] <fsphil> -0.2
[17:52] <Upu_M0UPU> what was final weight ?
[17:52] <fsphil> here we go
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[17:53] <Upu_M0UPU> either floating or bursting :)
[17:53] <fsphil> yep
[17:53] <fsphil> ...
[17:53] <LeoBodnar_> 13.4 grammes
[17:53] <fsphil> c'mon
[17:53] <Willdude123> The map is one of the first results for it.
[17:53] <Willdude123> Anyway teatime.
[17:53] <arko> oh wow
[17:53] <Upu_M0UPU> yeah impressive
[17:53] <PB0NER> slowly getting in range, what should domx16 sound like
[17:53] <PB0NER> or look like in waterfall?
[17:53] <fsphil> no updates?
[17:53] <db_g6gzh> http://album.dbrooke.me.uk/b-2.jpg
[17:53] <fsphil> oooh
[17:53] <fsphil> 0.4
[17:54] <arko> nice
[17:54] <fsphil> floaty?
[17:54] <LeoBodnar_> YEssss!
[17:54] <Upu_M0UPU> lowest we've been is 25g
[17:54] <Upu_M0UPU> http://i.imgur.com/s9hCMRv.jpg
[17:54] <mfa298> looks floaty :D
[17:54] <arko> LeoBodnar_: very nice!
[17:54] <Upu_M0UPU> still going up :)
[17:54] <arko> any pictures of the payload?
[17:54] <Upu_M0UPU> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-2/
[17:54] <bertrik> no sign of b2 signal here in the hague, netherlands
[17:54] <PB0NER> Upu_M0UPU, thx
[17:54] <gonzo_mob> what radio is flying ?
[17:54] <PE2G> PB0NER: http://www.w1hkj.com/FldigiHelp-3.21/Modes/DomEX16.wav
[17:54] <Herman-PB0AHX> Martijn i reed also
[17:54] <Upu_M0UPU> nice Leo
[17:54] <mfa298> that was a painful wait for the data point to come in to see if it was floating or bursting.
[17:55] <Upu_M0UPU> well done :)
[17:55] <M0CJM_Neil> LeoBodnar_ Thanks for the info on the ticker strip
[17:55] <Upu_M0UPU> it may burst but that is currently a float
[17:55] <fsphil> 0.3
[17:55] <Upu_M0UPU> and if it makes it to sunset you're good
[17:55] <arko> WOW!
[17:55] <fsphil> yea, that's a float atm
[17:55] <arko> dude
[17:55] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[17:55] <fsphil> 2C
[17:55] <fsphil> brrr
[17:55] <fsphil> oh
[17:55] <jarod> http://i.imgur.com/s9hCMRv.jpg <-- not rtty?
[17:55] <fsphil> 0.7
[17:56] <fsphil> it's going up again
[17:56] <Upu_M0UPU> jarod DominoEX16
[17:56] <Herman-PB0AHX> tnx pe2g now i now the sound
[17:56] <jarod> ah i see such signals i think :)
[17:56] <Upu_M0UPU> RTTY is 2 tones
[17:56] <jarod> ya
[17:56] <Upu_M0UPU> thats 16
[17:56] <fsphil> c'mon balloon, keep it together
[17:57] <PB0NER> PE2G, thx
[17:57] <M0CJM_Neil> Lost GPS?
[17:58] <Upu_M0UPU> it comes and goes
[17:58] <PB0NER> ping Herman-PB0AHX
[17:58] <Upu_M0UPU> possible code issue ?
[17:58] <PE2G> PB0NER: any rx?
[17:58] <PB0NER> PE2G no but slowly something is coming
[17:58] <PE2G> You got a trace?
[17:58] <fsphil> steady altitude again
[17:59] <bertrik> PB0NER: at what exact frequency?
[17:59] <PE2G> 436.600
[17:59] <fsphil> ah, no
[17:59] <PB0NER> 434600
[17:59] <fsphil> this is all over the place
[17:59] <PE2G> 434.600
[17:59] <fsphil> -0.9
[17:59] <Upu_M0UPU> probably split
[17:59] <Upu_M0UPU> possibly ?
[17:59] <fsphil> why can't foils be sensible :)
[17:59] <Upu_M0UPU> lol
[17:59] <Upu_M0UPU> no going up again lol
[18:00] <fsphil> 0.4
[18:00] <fsphil> aaarh
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[18:00] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/hmmsignal.jpg ?
[18:00] <fsphil> it might be being pushed around by the wind
[18:00] <junderwood_M0JCU> We're going to need some listeners in Norway (tomorrow)
[18:00] <jarod> i see them all over the place
[18:00] <mfa298> this is really painful watching the info box, needs faster updates :P
[18:00] <fsphil> yes lol
[18:00] <jarod> what are those?
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[18:01] <Upu_M0UPU> altitude is working live
[18:01] <Upu_M0UPU> 6492
[18:01] <junderwood_M0JCU> 6494
[18:01] <Upu_M0UPU> 6501
[18:01] <Upu_M0UPU> proper update
[18:01] <jarod> is B-2 a constant signal or on/off?
[18:01] <mfa298> jarod: that's probably some local interference, maybe someones wireless weather station or a car lock, it should be right on 434.600
[18:01] <Jess--M0VBR> 6496
[18:01] <LeoBodnar_> I'll fix Lat/Long issues for the next flight.
[18:01] <Upu_M0UPU> pretty constant
[18:02] <jarod> ok
[18:02] <jarod> tuner am or usb?
[18:02] <Upu_M0UPU> jarod its a rock solid signal about 300 hz wide at 434.600
[18:02] <Upu_M0UPU> USB
[18:02] <Upu_M0UPU> burst ?
[18:02] <Upu_M0UPU> soryr
[18:02] <Upu_M0UPU> ignore me sorry Leo
[18:02] <jarod> HAB mode?
[18:02] Action: Upu_M0UPU shuts up
[18:02] <Upu_M0UPU> yep
[18:02] <fsphil> yea it's doing that to me too :)
[18:02] <Herman-PB0AHX> yessssssss i have a trace from B-2
[18:02] <fsphil> wish it would make its mind up
[18:03] <junderwood_M0JCU> sunset can't come soon enough
[18:03] <Upu_M0UPU> yep :)
[18:03] <Jess--M0VBR> has the flight doc been set to allow it to go past midnight?
[18:03] <LeoBodnar_> Heading for home, will see you in 30 min! Exciting so far! XD
[18:03] <Upu_M0UPU> I've mentioned it to leo
[18:03] <jarod> guess to far away for .nl :O
[18:03] <Upu_M0UPU> we can fix that if its still up
[18:04] <Upu_M0UPU> just edging into Netherlands now
[18:04] <iain_g4sgx> V exciting, my mate VRK has a good antenna so sould be good for a while in Nort Sea, mine is pants
[18:05] <mfa298> jarod: with a decent antenna and reciever people have been recieving it as the blue circle gets close to them.
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[18:05] <mfa298> and a decent location
[18:05] <Jess--M0VBR> based on reception as it was coming up I should be able to track it out to it's current predicted landing position
[18:05] <Jess--M0VBR> and there is nothing high in between me and that point
[18:05] <jarod> 80 meters up, discone, crappy rtlsdr :)
[18:06] <Jess--M0VBR> 2/70 colinear (sharmans x50) and fcd pro+
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[18:06] <Jess--M0VBR> colinear is 6 feet off the ground (which is pretty damn near sea level)
[18:07] <Upu_M0UPU> got anything PB0NER ?
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[18:07] <mfa298> jarod: you might need it to be a bit closer to you then to recieve but at least it's heading towards you.
[18:07] <fsphil> this is a really choppy float
[18:07] <PB0NER> PE2G, negatibe, PB)AHX does (dat 5km)
[18:07] <PB0NER> dat=dst
[18:07] <jarod> ok
[18:08] <Herman-PB0AHX> yes first green line from B-2
[18:08] <PB0NER> Herman-PB0AHX first green
[18:08] <PE2G> PB0NER:: Nice thanks
[18:08] <Upu_M0UPU> nice
[18:08] <jarod> how much power?
[18:08] <iain_g4sgx> slowly descending,
[18:08] <Upu_M0UPU> 10mW
[18:08] <jarod> :O
[18:08] <jarod> i am just outside the blue circle :/ :P
[18:09] <iain_g4sgx> v slow, may be a float?
[18:09] <fsphil> you'd be surprised what you can manage with 10mw
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[18:09] <fsphil> the altitude chart looks like it's descending
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: I have wondered if 1000km can be gotten,
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: with a balloon borne yagi
[18:10] <fsphil> you'd need help from the atmosphere
[18:10] <fsphil> or a handy aircraft
[18:10] <Upu_M0UPU> right afk cooking hopefully still up when I get back :)
[18:10] <fsphil> -1.5m/s
[18:10] <fsphil> coming back to earth I suspect
[18:10] <fsphil> or, sea
[18:10] <PB0NER> decoding started
[18:10] <Willdude123> mfa298: it looks like 00000000
[18:11] <mfa298> balloon borne yagi could be fun, would need some way of being pointed to the right place
[18:11] <junderwood_M0JCU> not at any significant rate
[18:11] <junderwood_M0JCU> no - accelerating down now :(
[18:11] <mfa298> Willdude123: and what does strlen look for to detect the end of the string ?
[18:11] <PB0NER> $$B-a1610,181108,52.999,-0,6257,1a3n-0*bcf4
[18:11] <Willdude123> mfa298: A 0
[18:12] <junderwood_M0JCU> and up again
[18:12] <PB0NER> it is that I was playing with the gains of fl-digi, I hear totally nothing
[18:12] <mfa298> so how long will strlen thing the the string is once you've sent the first character
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[18:13] <Willdude123> mfa298: 0
[18:13] <Willdude123> So if the strlen is 0, set bits to 0?
[18:14] <mfa298> technically it's looking for a null character (\0) or 0000 0000 in binary
[18:14] <mfa298> from that do you understand why it's stopping after the R character
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[18:16] <Willdude123> mfa298: Because bits is equal to 8.
[18:16] <Willdude123> Which makes the for conditional false.
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[18:17] <G8KNN> Lovely float, green decodes, bliss :-)
[18:17] <PE2G> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypub-bin/trajresults.pl?jobidno=14534
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[18:18] <Willdude123> mfa298: So is it if(strlen==0){int bits=1;) ?
[18:18] <Willdude123> *bits=0
[18:19] <mfa298> what do you think that would acheive ?
[18:19] <daveake> Willdude123 Seriously, get yourself a copy of K&R and read it
[18:19] <Willdude123> Well, the loop stops at 8 bits, after the first char is done.
[18:19] <Willdude123> So it needs to go back to 0.
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[18:20] <daveake> You need to learn about loops, scope, logical operations and probably a bunch of other stuff
[18:20] <Willdude123> daveake: Can't afford it.
[18:20] <mfa298> the for(bits=0; loop is fine and will start at zero each time it's started
[18:20] <daveake> I'll send you one
[18:20] <Willdude123> Oh thanks.
[18:21] <zyp> Willdude123, don't you have a library nearby? I bet the library would have it
[18:21] LeoBodnar (4e96728a@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[18:21] <daveake> Because you're trying to jump before you can walk here and sorry but this isn't a C beginner's channel
[18:21] <LeoBodnar> Hiya up!
[18:21] <LeoBodnar> Falling down!
[18:21] <Willdude123> OK. I'll stop developing the code.
[18:22] <PB0NER> Green lines !!!!
[18:22] <daveake> It'll be faster
[18:22] <PB0NER> I can even hear it ish
[18:22] <junderwood_M0JCU> LeoBodnar, descending rather than falling
[18:22] <junderwood_M0JCU> I think it's coolling rather than leaking at the moment
[18:23] <mfa298> Willdude123: I think you've got all the information to solve that bug you just need to understand how the outer for loop is working and how what you're doing to datastring with the bit shifting affects it.
[18:23] <LeoBodnar> Maybe valve has given up.
[18:23] <KT5TK_QRL> That's normal when the balloon gets over the colder sea.
[18:23] <Willdude123> Right
[18:24] Action: Jess--M0VBR has finally got around to calibrating the rx on the fcd, now reads dead on rather than 2kc high at 434 mhz and 0.9kc high at 144mhz
[18:24] <mfa298> Willdude123: you've made a decent bit of progress with it already, you should be proud of that.
[18:24] <Willdude123> But, as daveake said, I should stop it now.
[18:24] <daveake> indeed
[18:24] <daveake> Well I suggest you learn a bit more because some of the code I've seen you post is showing a lack of understanding
[18:25] <daveake> And that's what I want you to fix
[18:25] <Willdude123> Uhuh.
[18:25] <daveake> i.e. the understanding
[18:25] iain_g4sgx (2ed0171c@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Quit: Page closed
[18:25] <daveake> code will follow
[18:25] <Jess--M0VBR> Willdude123: sounds like it's time to bury your head in a book rather than writing code where you aren't 100% sure of how it's working
[18:25] <mfa298> I'd agree with that, go read some bits about how the bits of code work, maybe also find a good tutoral and work through that.
[18:25] Relz (5ea86fda@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[18:25] <Relz> hi everyone
[18:25] <Willdude123> I understand it.
[18:25] <Relz> good evening
[18:25] <Willdude123> Just about.
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[18:26] <Jess--M0VBR> there is the problem... just about != 100%
[18:26] <LeoBodnar> Hi Relz
[18:27] <M0CJM_Neil> Right all, off round to mates house to help him wire up his VW Camper van so catch you all next time!
[18:27] <Relz> finally managed to decode my first balloon today
[18:27] <Willdude123> I still wanna know what the error is.
[18:27] <Jess--M0VBR> Willdude123: that's not meant to sound harsh, I know I have a lot of reading coming up for my next planned project
[18:28] M0CJM_Neil (~neil@host86-143-86-155.range86-143.btcentralplus.com) left irc:
[18:28] <Willdude123> I understand it. But I can't fix the bloody bug.
[18:29] mclane (~uli@p5B02EEA6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[18:29] <mfa298> Willdude123: have a read, hopefully it will become more obvious, chances are you'll learn quicker than us trying to help you over IRC.
[18:32] <PB0NER> $$B-2,1687,1N2059,-0.0,0.59037,U791,6,1.37,r*f919 $$B-2,1688,2105,-0.0,0.59173,5791,5,1.37,-1*c4be $$B-2,1689,182114,53.03857,-0.0t 785,6,1.37,-1*9359
[18:33] <mclane> B-2 is using dominoex as modulation?
[18:33] <LeoBodnar> Yes mclane
[18:33] <Willdude123> Chances are after reading a book I still won't be able to fix it.
[18:34] <mclane> what kind of transmitter is used?
[18:34] <PB0NER> another green one!
[18:34] <bertrik> PB0NER: not a trace of signal in revspace, the hague yet
[18:34] <PB0NER> I can barely hear it
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[18:36] <Willdude123> Arrgh ffs
[18:38] <Willdude123> I somehow think reading a book won't help.
[18:38] <Willdude123> I understand the damn code.
[18:38] <Willdude123> But I can't figure out what's wrong with it.
[18:38] <Willdude123> Because it shouldn't stop between characters.
[18:38] <Willdude123> Why would it?
[18:38] <mfa298> Willdude123: if you can't figure out what's wrong then you don't fully understand the code
[18:39] <Herman-PB0AHX> here he is also no trace on this moment
[18:39] <Jess--M0VBR> dropped out with me for about a min, coming back now
[18:40] <Willdude123> But I do.
[18:40] <Willdude123> How the hell can it just stop??
[18:40] <Willdude123> Arrgh
[18:41] Action: Willdude123 headdesks many tims.
[18:41] <Willdude123> *times
[18:41] <Jess--M0VBR> Willdude123: from what I understand you have code that is running per character, that stops after one character correct?
[18:41] <Willdude123> Yes.
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[18:41] <bertrik> Willdude123: if you post your code I can have a look at it and correct things perhaps
[18:42] <Jess--M0VBR> I would be looking at the loop that goes through the whole string rather than each character
[18:42] <mfa298> Willdude123: it stops because that's what your code currently tells it to do, you need to understand how that outer for loop is working with the data it's being given and how that data is changing.
[18:42] <Willdude123> http://pastie.org/8104222
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[18:42] <Willdude123> So now the outer string is just "TTY"?
[18:42] <mfa298> Willdude123: honestly go read K&R
[18:43] <Willdude123> And x is not <strlen(datastring)
[18:43] <g4sgx_ian> I like this flight, especially so soon after the unusual float t'other day. Promising new mode AND its been written in a proper programming language. Discuss.. he he..
[18:43] <mclane> does someone know what kind of transmitter is used on B-2? and how the dominoex is generated?
[18:44] <Willdude123> Wait yes it is.
[18:44] <LeoBodnar> Ha and you don't have to stay up late at night! :)
[18:44] <Willdude123> The outer loop will only stop if x is not <strlen(datastring) which it still is.
[18:44] <daveake> No need to do strlen
[18:45] <Willdude123> What should I do then?
[18:45] <daveake> The normal C way of doing that is to test the character value - zero is the end of the string
[18:45] <daveake> strlen can be slow, for a start
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[18:46] <LeoBodnar> mclane: Si4060 DominoEX is generated by altering PLL frequency.
[18:46] <daveake> Also, you don't have the start/stop bits yet
[18:46] <Willdude123> Oh god
[18:46] <Willdude123> So to check that the end of the datastring is 0? And if it is, go through the loop?
[18:46] <Willdude123> Wait.
[18:46] <Willdude123> It always will be.
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[18:47] <mclane> uhh, QFN package??
[18:47] <daveake> Also, you're modifying the string (shifting) and the normal way will be to grab a character from the string and shift that
[18:47] <mclane> for the Si4060
[18:47] <LeoBodnar> I think it is section 0.1a in K&R - honestly
[18:47] <g4sgx_ian> Waiting for a level converter to RS232 before I attack the UBX with my pic, will speed up development being able to monitor comms, I'm not into making life too hard for myself
[18:47] <daveake> Also, the if/then/else stuff could all be just 1 simple line
[18:47] <LeoBodnar> Yes, QFN
[18:47] <Willdude123> Oh ffs.
[18:48] <Willdude123> My code is shit, I'll go read that K&R book probably.
[18:48] <Willdude123> Delete my code.
[18:48] <Willdude123> Start again.
[18:48] <mclane> is there a breakout board available (I do not know SMS soldering)
[18:48] <Willdude123> Find it doesn't work.
[18:48] <Willdude123> Read again.
[18:48] <Willdude123> Start code again.
[18:48] <mfa298> Willdude123: don't delete the code, just understand why it's not working (which reading the book will help with)
[18:48] <Willdude123> Find that I still can't figure it out.
[18:49] <KT5TK_QRL> LeoBodnar: Do you use external FSK keying through a GPIO pin of the Si4460?
[18:49] <junderwood_M0JCU> mclane, SM soldering isn't half as frightening as you might think
[18:49] <Willdude123> As daveake said, I'm doing it all the wrong bloody way.
[18:49] <LeoBodnar> Yes Willdude123 , books are for losers (like most of us here.)
[18:49] <daveake> No I said there's a better way
[18:49] Maroni_ (~user@ joined #highaltitude.
[18:49] <daveake> And K&R will teach you the right way
[18:49] <LeoBodnar> No KT5TK_QRL, Domino uses 18 shift tones.
[18:49] <junderwood_M0JCU> daveake, define better :)
[18:50] <daveake> :)
[18:50] <mclane> might be, but QFN?
[18:50] <Jess--M0VBR> junderwood_M0JCU: probably more efficient (smaller code, faster running)
[18:50] <junderwood_M0JCU> no problem. Chisel tip and flux pen
[18:50] <mclane> and I need to design a board for that
[18:50] <mfa298> I can think of at least three ways that you can fix the code with a simple change (some of which are better than others)
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[18:50] <KT5TK_QRL> Theoretically you could have used 18 channels in the chip but I think switching channels is too slow.
[18:51] <KT5TK_QRL> My rtty sounds quite hard when I do this
[18:51] <junderwood_M0JCU> Jess--M0VBR, sometimes "better" is clearer or more robust
[18:51] <LeoBodnar> Si4060 does not do channel hopping on TX :(
[18:52] <KT5TK_QRL> Ah, I thought you used a Si4460
[18:52] <LeoBodnar> It's the same thing (TX part of it)
[18:52] <Upu_M0UPU> wow still up :) Slow leak ?
[18:52] <Willdude123> Arrg
[18:52] <LeoBodnar> Yes, probably valve gave up.
[18:53] <LeoBodnar> Upu_M0UPU: did you have to tine the RX? I can't hear it from here anymore.
[18:53] <Upu_M0UPU> tune ?
[18:53] <LeoBodnar> yeap
[18:53] <Upu_M0UPU> not touched it since launch
[18:53] <LeoBodnar> yep
[18:53] <LeoBodnar> cool
[18:53] <Upu_M0UPU> all my designs are going to be TCXO from now on :)
[18:53] <LeoBodnar> this bit worked (something did!)
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[18:54] <Upu_M0UPU> I'm recording it
[18:54] <Willdude123> I guess I'll look for this amazing miracle book in my library.
[18:54] <Upu_M0UPU> so you can hve a copy when done if its of use
[18:54] <F6AGV> evening all
[18:54] <LeoBodnar> Hi!
[18:54] <Upu_M0UPU> Bon soir
[18:54] <PB0NER> totally lost it
[18:55] <Willdude123> daveake: My library has no copy.
[18:55] <F6AGV> Salut Anthony
[18:55] <LeoBodnar> There will be more PB0NER
[18:55] <Upu_M0UPU> you did well to get it given the altitude
[18:55] <LeoBodnar> search in the include path
[18:56] <LeoBodnar> Lol Willdude123, don't take it too hard! XD
[18:56] Hiena (~boreger@ joined #highaltitude.
[18:56] <LeoBodnar> It will do you good.
[18:57] <Willdude123> C est très confuse, et putain gênant, mais je vais prendre un livre qui empêche pas d'être ennuyeux.
[18:57] <arko> did the balloon pop?
[18:57] <arko> or has it lost bouy
[18:57] <PE2G> PB0NER: I see you got 9 green lines, PB0AHX 25 lines
[18:57] <LeoBodnar> I think it has pfffed
[18:58] <Upu_M0UPU> leak
[18:58] <arko> lol
[18:58] <PB0NER> haha PE2G I just told Herman-PB)AHX that
[18:58] <arko> techincal term "pfff"
[18:58] <mclane> Willdude: do not use this p... word!
[18:59] <LeoBodnar> Need to complain to Qualatex. They are saying "...will float for at least 3-5 days.."
[18:59] <Willdude123> Putain?
[18:59] <bertrik> pastie
[18:59] <Willdude123> Porquoi?
[19:00] <PE2G> PB0NER: Easier than RTTY?
[19:00] <mclane> this is very bad language!
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[19:00] <Maxell> hot
[19:00] <Willdude123> Putain.
[19:00] <PB0NER> PE2G, I almost did not hear it....
[19:01] <mfa298> Willdude123: this is the book you're looking for http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Programming-Language-2nd-Edition/dp/0131103628 it's known as K&R based on the authors initials who are the guys who created C (and were involved in creating Unix)
[19:01] <Willdude123> Quel est le problème avec putain?
[19:01] <bertrik> Willdude123: this is what I would do http://pastebin.com/S26epE29
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[19:01] <Willdude123> Not for £30
[19:01] <mclane> F6AGV: est-ce que tu peux lui expliquer?
[19:01] <LeoBodnar> B-2 didn't hurry on either side of the road, did it? Stopped for a tea break on the way up though.
[19:01] <bertrik> use a char to take one character from the string and do manipulations like shift on that, not directly on the string itself. Also I've taken the strlen out of the outer loop
[19:01] <PB0NER> I 'tuned'on the waterfall PE2G
[19:02] <PE2G> PB0NER: If you compare it to ASTRA, yesterday?
[19:02] <mfa298> Willdude123: that's just so you know what your searching for
[19:02] <PB0NER> never got that working...QRM
[19:02] <number10> Willdude123: can we cut out the swearing - whatever the language
[19:02] <PE2G> Ah.
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[19:04] <arko> is that a point of inflection i see on the altitude graph?
[19:04] <Willdude123> mfa298: Right.
[19:04] <bertrik> Willdude123: I just wrote that, haven't compiled it
[19:04] <Willdude123> I'm just looking over bertrik's code, to make it not work.
[19:05] <F6AGV> Ah, j'arrive ! il ne sait pas ce que ça veut dire ?
[19:05] <HixPad> Yo. Conf ticket purchased. Official attendance now :)
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[19:05] <Willdude123> Because if I change it so it doesn't work, I know what's wrong.
[19:05] <arko> nope
[19:05] <arko> aw well
[19:05] <mfa298> and Willdude123 I had been starting to think I should say well done on the language tonight, but that's gone down dramatically in the last half hour
[19:05] <Willdude123> mfa298: is that a decent way to go about it?
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[19:07] <mfa298> Willdude123: it's as important to understand why it didn't work and why what bertrik has posted could fix it.
[19:07] <Willdude123> It does.
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[19:07] <Willdude123> Right. I'm saving that for tomorrow.
[19:08] <Willdude123> I have homework.
[19:08] <PB0NER> hey guys.... I'm off
[19:08] <LeoBodnar> Thank PB0NER !
[19:08] <LeoBodnar> thanks PB0NER
[19:08] <PB0NER> LeoBodnar your baloon right?
[19:08] <Willdude123> But yeah thanks for your patience mfa298 and others.
[19:08] <LeoBodnar> Yes
[19:08] <mfa298> but unless you *understand* why that works you've not learnt anything and there could be other bugs. This is never a good thing as bugs from not understanding the code will bite you when it's 30km up in the atmosphere
[19:09] <PB0NER> I'll check it is going up again
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[19:10] <PB0NER> eh negative
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[19:11] <Willdude123> mfa298: Indeed.
[19:12] <Willdude123> I shan't use it without understanding it.
[19:12] <F6AGV> were are some pictures of B-2? please.
[19:12] <Upu_M0UPU> F6AGV http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-2/
[19:13] <F6AGV> OK? thanks his trajectory at the first part is very amazing!
[19:13] <Willdude123> Sorry for swearing en francais.
[19:13] <bertrik> Willdude123: the problem probably was that, due to shifting chars in the string itself, those chars became 0 at some point, which caused strlen to see a shorter string (a 0 is the string terminator in C/C++)
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[19:13] <g4sgx_ian> OMG those radials arent at 90 degress are they?
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[19:14] <fsphil> setting the first byte of a string to 0 is basically making an empty string. and is a trick sometimes used :)
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[19:14] <Willdude123> bertrik: Ahah
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[19:14] <Willdude123> So how does your code eliminate that?
[19:14] <Upu_M0UPU> probably clouds F6AGV, its a foil balloon
[19:14] <PB0NER> haha wain until I have my AZ/EL rotor en m2 yagi's
[19:14] <fsphil> don't change the string
[19:14] <LeoBodnar> Maybe rain clouds F6AGV ? It only had 1.3g lift
[19:14] <bertrik> Willdude123: it copies a character from the string into the 'char c'. Also it does the strlen outside of the loop.
[19:15] <F6AGV> Yes, here we have clouds very dark and perhaps cumulonimbus?
[19:15] <fsphil> you don't need to do strlen either if you're just reading each character in the string
[19:15] <bertrik> so the datastring itself is not modified
[19:15] <fsphil> testing for when you've reached the end of the string is simple
[19:15] <PB0NER> WillDude123 what are you up to? sting handling in c?
[19:16] <fsphil> sting handling is a bee thing
[19:16] <PB0NER> I've done my share of C in the linux kernel and many other projects.... done with it if possible
[19:16] <mclane> LeoBodnar: very nice piece of work!!
[19:17] <PB0NER> I really love python
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[19:17] <fsphil> python is written in C
[19:17] <PB0NER> I know..
[19:18] <LeoBodnar> C is written in C
[19:18] <fsphil> not the first versions :)
[19:18] <PB0NER> I I hate a language I usaly make a python -> xxx translator
[19:18] <F6AGV> very good job with B-2 !
[19:18] <PB0NER> if I
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[19:18] <fsphil> isn't gcc written in C++ these days?
[19:18] <PB0NER> chicken and egg
[19:19] <cm13g09> so... this is where #ha went! I lost it in a client restart yesterday
[19:19] <LeoBodnar> Experimenting so far... It's my second balloon only
[19:19] <PB0NER> the ++ is just that it supoorts objects
[19:19] <fsphil> wb cm13g09 :)
[19:19] <cm13g09> although I've been in the channel, it was one of 30+ IRSSI windows!
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[19:20] <cm13g09> and I'd not had time to find the one with
[19:20] <PB0NER> yeah fsphil... once you have a compiler.....
[19:20] <fsphil> I used to wonder what the first assembler was written in
[19:21] <PB0NER> there are lots of people telling the program c++ without actually using the ++ part
[19:21] <PB0NER> fsphil, assembly
[19:21] <fsphil> assembled by hand?
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[19:22] <fsphil> they must have been quite simple programs so it could have been done on paper, programmed in manually
[19:22] <LeoBodnar> Wasn't it B?
[19:22] <PB0NER> I (Dinosaur) actually programmed confusers with switches (0/1) for data and address, en just ENTER as one press button.... output was on 5-bit papertape
[19:22] <LeoBodnar> No, scrap that. Assembly I think
[19:22] <mfa298> cm13g09: you need to close some windows in irssi then (alternativly add some config so that favourite channels are always in the same window)
[19:22] <cm13g09> mfa298: lol yeah
[19:23] <cm13g09> you can say that again
[19:23] <fsphil> at some point someone must have been putting the machine code in with switches
[19:23] <LeoBodnar> Did you make holes in the punchacrds to correct the program when it was too late to as girls for re-punch?
[19:23] <fsphil> or manually punching paper
[19:23] <LeoBodnar> ask
[19:23] <PB0NER> a 5 bit computer that was
[19:23] <LeoBodnar> Well I did
[19:24] <PB0NER> those where the days!!
[19:24] <LeoBodnar> Sigh! But I am glad h/w reliability improved.
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[19:25] <PB0NER> fsphil, I still have a little machine somewhere to create data, and correct data on papertape
[19:25] <fsphil> sweet!
[19:25] <fsphil> I've never seen one
[19:25] <fsphil> always thought about making one, just for fun
[19:25] <PB0NER> @fsphil by punching holes and placing small stickers
[19:25] <LeoBodnar> Why 5 bit? Did you use one side of the tape only?
[19:26] <PB0NER> @LeoBodnar, lol
[19:26] <mclane> yeah - hand assembly and teletype terminals with paper tape as "non volatile" memory!!
[19:26] <mclane> 5 bit Baudot code
[19:26] <fsphil> punch cards are just an early version of a CD :)
[19:27] <PB0NER> write down mnomics... convert the to 'byte' code in binary format, on paper too and then enter the 0's and 1's by hand
[19:27] <mclane> nice work to rearrange them when you left a deck of cards falling to the ground
[19:27] <PB0NER> that is why it was very long tape
[19:27] <fsphil> yikes
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[19:28] <fsphil> and I thought cassettes where bad
[19:28] <LeoBodnar> Oops, tried JCL language and IRC client ate the data
[19:28] <LeoBodnar> Slash-slash space MYRPOC...
[19:28] <fsphil> don't start with a forward slash
[19:28] <fsphil> put a space first
[19:28] <LeoBodnar> Wot, no JCL?
[19:29] <fsphil> any line with a forward slash is treated as a command
[19:29] <fsphil> *starting with a
[19:29] <fsphil> in most IRC clients anyway
[19:29] <PB0NER> I'm really feeling old.... working on a quad core MacBook Pro, connected to radio's receiving balloons by sampling audio and process that, chatting on IRC, and hacking into a samsung DVR running linux
[19:30] <PB0NER> and talking about 5bit paper tape.....
[19:30] <Willdude123> Will this be ok with the labgear screwfix pole and w-2000? http://www.maplin.co.uk/large-tandk-wall-bracket-914
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[19:31] <G8KNN> Upu_M0UPU:How far below the horizon are you decoding?
[19:32] <HixPad> Oh, I forgot to mention. I bought a secondhand C by exercises book from amazon US.
[19:32] <Upu_M0UPU> quite a bit
[19:32] <Upu_M0UPU> Antenna is 300m ASL
[19:32] <HixPad> It came with at least 1 5 1/4 floppy in the rear cover
[19:32] <Upu_M0UPU> and I have a pretty clear take off in that direction
[19:32] <HixPad> Sealed!
[19:32] <Upu_M0UPU> signal is still very strong
[19:33] <G8KNN> Ah OK. Signals are holding up here so far.
[19:34] <Upu_M0UPU> it will probably just cut off as it drops below something
[19:34] <Willdude123> WTF?
[19:34] <Willdude123> My NTX2 has stopped working.
[19:34] <fsphil> probably still a bit above your horizon Upu_M0UPU
[19:34] <Upu_M0UPU> yep
[19:34] <LeoBodnar> Upu_M0UPU: Do you reckon I failed to get 10mW output? I did not do any RF side tweaks or measurements.
[19:34] <fsphil> you've just got a bigger horizon than most of us :)
[19:34] <Upu_M0UPU> signal looks fine to me LeoBodnar
[19:34] <Upu_M0UPU> hard to tell with it not being RTTY but it doesn't seem under powered
[19:35] <Upu_M0UPU> what wire did you use for the antenna and how come it was so straight ?
[19:36] <LeoBodnar> Guitar string wire.
[19:36] <LeoBodnar> Sorry guitar.
[19:36] <Upu_M0UPU> interesting
[19:36] <Upu_M0UPU> img
[19:36] <fsphil> is that springy?
[19:36] <Upu_M0UPU> http://i.imgur.com/dXX1jWh.jpg
[19:36] <fsphil> I was looking at getting some springs for my next flight
[19:37] <Upu_M0UPU> top one is FT817
[19:37] <Upu_M0UPU> bottom is FCD with gain @ 20dB and a HABAMP
[19:37] <fsphil> so if they did get shaken they'd straighten up
[19:37] <Willdude123> Upu_M0UPU: What do you think?
[19:37] <Upu_M0UPU> I think you stop
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[19:37] <Upu_M0UPU> step back, apply some power to it with nothing else and see if you get a carrier
[19:37] <fsphil> remembering to raise the EN pin too
[19:38] <Upu_M0UPU> yes that
[19:38] <Upu_M0UPU> just wondering when I am going to loose this
[19:38] <Upu_M0UPU> its only 1.8km up now
[19:38] <HixPad> Upu_M0UPU: there's some images about 17:00 ish
[19:39] <Upu_M0UPU> I saw them :)
[19:39] <fsphil> oops, habhound is plotting the 0 longitude and latitude
[19:39] <ibanezmatt13> anybody know anything about i2c?
[19:39] <Upu_M0UPU> I've had to turn off the hab rotator :)
[19:39] <Upu_M0UPU> fading now
[19:39] <LeoBodnar> Same as http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/IMG_1283.jpg but at the bottom.
[19:40] <bertrik> ibanezmatt13: yes, but it's been a while
[19:40] <Upu_M0UPU> why at the top ?
[19:40] <bertrik> the most common problem with i2c is getting the address right (bit 0 of the address is the write/read bit) :)
[19:40] <db_g6gzh> signal gone!
[19:40] <ibanezmatt13> bertrik, I've never used it before and I'm trying to learn about it by hacking an old Wii Nunchuck on the Pi. I'm up to the point where the i2c bus has recognised the device and has an address for it. BUT, I've no idea what to do now.
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[19:41] <ibanezmatt13> bertrik, http://www.windmeadow.com/node/42 it's for arduino but I'm sure I could replicate it somehow on Pi :)
[19:41] <LeoBodnar> I can haz 1/4 wave GP on the top right now
[19:42] <Upu_M0UPU> I think if this was RTTY I wouldn't be decoding now
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[19:42] <Willdude123> Upu_M0UPU: One of the resistors was touching the ntx2.
[19:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
[19:42] <fsphil> Upu_M0UPU: it's below your horizon now
[19:42] <Upu_M0UPU> well below
[19:42] <HixPad> Hi SP9UOB-Tom
[19:42] <Upu_M0UPU> hardly on the waterfall but decoding still
[19:42] <Willdude123> But I was asking about the aerial mount I mentioned really.
[19:42] <HixPad> Is LeoBodnar s new method going to be the new standard for floaters then?
[19:42] <Upu_M0UPU> not audiable any more
[19:43] <HixPad> Seems to work well
[19:43] <LeoBodnar> Well, that was a good session to test this DominoEX thingy, don't you think?
[19:43] <HixPad> Not that I can hear
[19:43] <Upu_M0UPU> with FEC this will be great
[19:43] <Upu_M0UPU> greater
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[19:43] <fsphil> I'd call this a successful flight
[19:43] <Upu_M0UPU> indeed
[19:43] <Willdude123> Why not use rtty?
[19:43] <fsphil> cause :)
[19:43] <HixPad> Seems to be the feedback I've seen on it
[19:43] <LeoBodnar> FEC is 50% slower?
[19:43] <db_g6gzh> nice flight LeoBodnar
[19:43] <Upu_M0UPU> Willdude123 RTTY is fine but this is better with a weak signal
[19:44] <Upu_M0UPU> but it hard to do it
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[19:44] <Willdude123> Will this be ok with the labgear screwfix pole and w-2000? http://www.maplin.co.uk/large-tandk-wall-bracket-914
[19:44] <fsphil> FEC would smooth out errors caused by a swinging payload
[19:44] <LeoBodnar> For the fun of it?
[19:44] <fsphil> well depends on the FEC
[19:44] <HixPad> Is fec some kind of error correction?
[19:45] <Upu_M0UPU> going now
[19:45] <fsphil> forward error correction
[19:45] <G8KNN> Well done LeoBodnar! Signal now gone :(
[19:45] <HixPad> Ah
[19:45] <LeoBodnar> OK, I will look into FEC. I think it can't be autoconfigured in dl-fldigi so needs manual turning on
[19:45] <Upu_M0UPU> FCD stil decoding
[19:45] <fsphil> not sure which dominoex uses
[19:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> all: anyone can recommend FET that fully opens from 1.8V :) ?
[19:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> What type is B2 ?
[19:45] <fsphil> G7VRK
[19:45] <fsphil> is in an excellent spot
[19:46] <Upu_M0UPU> HABAmp win
[19:46] <bertrik> ibanezmatt13: try gordonDrogon on #raspberrypi , he wrote i2c routines for the pi
[19:46] <ibanezmatt13> I installed wiringPi but I couldn't work out how to import it into python
[19:46] <Upu_M0UPU> lol
[19:47] <bertrik> the arduino i2c API looks a bit weird, beginTransmission(addr) probably does a <start> and writes addr
[19:47] <bertrik> endTransmission() probably just sends a <stop>
[19:47] <LeoBodnar> SP9UOB-Tom: you can specify Vth on Farnell website under FETs
[19:47] <Upu_M0UPU> can still see it
[19:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: thanks i check
[19:48] <PB0NER> I2C, RPi.. I write a pythonlib for that
[19:48] <LeoBodnar> What package SP9UOB-Tom
[19:48] <LeoBodnar> ?
[19:48] <Upu_M0UPU> http://i.imgur.com/H8efStP.jpg
[19:48] <bertrik> and requestFrom(addr, x) probably sends addr (with the 'write' bit off), then reads x bytes
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[19:48] <LeoBodnar> N-ch?
[19:48] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a look
[19:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: package really doesnt matter
[19:48] <Upu_M0UPU> still getting partials from what looks like noise
[19:49] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: yes N channel - for cutoff
[19:49] <LeoBodnar> lol, reflection from alien ships
[19:49] <Upu_M0UPU> very impressive LeoBodnar
[19:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: Independence Day is in 2 days ;-) LOL
[19:50] <LeoBodnar> SP9UOB-Tom: http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=204245+110158844+731+502+110169524&No=0&getResults=true&appliedparametrics=true&locale=en_UK&divisionLocale=en_UK&catalogId=&skipManufacturer=false&skipParametricAttributeId=&prevNValues=204245+110158844+731+502&mm=1002572||,1002090||,&filtersHidden=false&appliedHidden=false&autoApply=false&originalQueryURL=%2Fjsp%2Fsearch%2Fbrowse.jsp%3FN%3D204245%26No%3D0%26getResul
[19:50] <LeoBodnar> 0.7V threshold, 62 matches
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[19:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: thank You :-)
[19:52] <Upu_M0UPU> G7VRK may get this most of the way down
[19:52] Nick change: Upu_M0UPU -> Upu
[19:52] <ibanezmatt13> bertrik, http://wiki.erazor-zone.de/wiki%3alinux%3apython%3asmbus%3adoc which should I use to simply read a byte from my device?
[19:52] <SteveG7vrk> i will lose it as soon as it gets below abt 150m
[19:53] <PB0NER> Ok, I'm reallyu gone now, behind sceen since 09:00 and I'm uk time +01:00
[19:53] <Upu> really thats only 60 seconds from the sea anyway :)
[19:53] <SteveG7vrk> i got ridge in the way
[19:53] <LeoBodnar> Thanks for sticking with B-2
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[19:54] <SteveG7vrk> new to all this will stay with it till it drops out
[19:55] <Upu> welcome aboard :)
[19:55] <PB0NER> I like the fact that every packet received, might be the only one! The more listeners, the more packets
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[19:56] <LeoBodnar> Lol, this can be addictive
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[19:57] <SteveG7vrk> droping out now
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[19:57] <HixPad> LeoBodnar: I noticed the ublox was gold. Is there a different spec max6?
[19:57] <PB0NER> I am preparing to build a sat station.... will do excellent for this too (same rig as PA3WEG uses @work)
[19:58] <PB0NER> but... bye!
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[19:58] <LeoBodnar> UBLOX is courtesy Upu - it might be just colour balance. The pads (half-holes) are gold-plated
[19:58] <bertrik> ibanezmatt13: I guess for nunchuck_init you do write_i2c_block_data(0x52,0x40,0x00), for send_zero you do write_i2c_block_data(0x52,0x40, ??) and to actually read the data you use read_i2c_block_data(0x52, ????), but I don't know python that well, and this python i2c documentation seems a bit lacking (e.g. don't know how to specify the number of bytes to read)
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[19:59] <HixPad> Ah ok. I know the pads well, they are an arse to solder by hand
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[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> thanks for that bertrik, I'll try it
[20:00] <Upu> some of the max6's I've been getting recently have had gold cases
[20:00] <HixPad> More shiny == better
[20:01] <LeoBodnar> Radiation hardened?
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[20:02] <SteveG7vrk> lost it noe
[20:02] <HixPad> Anodises?
[20:02] <HixPad> Anodised
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> We need off-shore tracking stations :)
[20:02] <HixPad> Krakentrack
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> Bye B-2 :)
[20:02] <Upu> its safe to say landing in the sea
[20:02] <Upu> Awesome flight Leo
[20:02] <HixPad> No ferry route under it?
[20:02] <HixPad> :)
[20:02] <Upu> seems the foils respond better to less weight
[20:03] <Upu> need to test that theory
[20:03] <chrisstubbs> darn my heavy tracker!
[20:03] <LeoBodnar> yep
[20:03] <chrisstubbs> was that a 36"?
[20:03] <SteveG7vrk> if Im reading the data right last spot at 608m
[20:03] <LeoBodnar> yes, Qualatex
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[20:03] <chrisstubbs> Awesome
[20:04] <LeoBodnar> 604m SteveG7vrk
[20:04] <chrisstubbs> As soon as I can sort a boost reg I will be giving one a go :)
[20:04] <HixPad> Is it fair to refer to B2 as a femtoHAB?
[20:04] <LeoBodnar> Thanks for staying until the end :)
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[20:04] <chrisstubbs> Wow I didnt realise it was a AAA in that photo!
[20:04] <LeoBodnar> Well technically it is not an order of magnitude smaller than picoHABs
[20:04] <HixPad> Pico doesn't really do it justice
[20:05] <fsphil> perspective: corrected
[20:05] <LeoBodnar> Hmmm.... LeoBodnar pulls out an envelope and a pen.
[20:05] <HixPad> And a microscope
[20:05] <SteveG7vrk> $$B-2,2476,200236,-0.0,-0.0,604,7,1.4,18*2463 was last data rx here
[20:05] <fsphil> altitude but no position
[20:06] <fsphil> won't get plotted
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[20:06] <LeoBodnar> LeoBodnar gives Zinc Air batteries another hard look. Nah, too little oxygen
[20:07] <SteveG7vrk> was geting noise after 800m
[20:07] <LeoBodnar> But decoded still?
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[20:08] <SteveG7vrk> yes was decoding most but missing some no plot
[20:09] <SteveG7vrk> $$B-2,2476,200236,-0.0,-0.0,604,7,1.4,18*2463 this was last data rx here
[20:09] <LeoBodnar> It is 100% my bug in the routine that converts binary number into printable string. I'll tear up the code tonight and fix it.
[20:09] <LeoBodnar> The most annoying thing is that bug does not show up with the coordinates of my home and my office.
[20:10] <bertrik> what's the bug? the minus sign in front of the zero?
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[20:10] <Tramvai> Hey
[20:10] <x-f> hey, Tramvai
[20:10] <x-f> was just about to email you!
[20:11] <Tramvai> Aha! :D
[20:11] <LeoBodnar> SO everything is tested and works 100%, driving to the launch site 500m away. Lat = 0.0 What?! Must be bad joint. Back to the office. Everything works 100%. To the launch site. Lat=-0.0. Oh, screw it, back to the office. EVerything is perfect. Nah, just chuck it!
[20:11] <Tramvai> I've been gathering a lot of equipment and such lately
[20:11] <Tramvai> Soldered the uBlox GPS module yesterday, tested it today with nice weather
[20:12] <Tramvai> Worked like a charm
[20:12] <Tramvai> Now I'm here for the next stage: radio transmitter
[20:12] <LeoBodnar> I think it must have something to do with decimal conversion. Full report later tonight. I know some are [barely] interested XD
[20:12] <Tramvai> I understand Radiometrix NTX2 is the most common choice amongst habbers?
[20:12] <Upu> code can be fixed
[20:12] <Upu> Hye Tramvai
[20:12] <Upu> indeed its one of the easiest to get working
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[20:13] <Tramvai> Sounds good, are there any alternatives?
[20:13] <Upu> there is the RFM22B, slightly more complex to get working
[20:13] <LeoBodnar> PIC24F assembly. NObody does it hard way anymore. Some are sticking with asm though but mostly for PIC18Fs
[20:14] <Upu> the LMT2 by Radiometrix which is expensive but very stable
[20:14] <Upu> if its your first one I'd use the NTX2
[20:15] <LeoBodnar> OK chaps, great evening to all ! Thanks again for tracking and good conversation!
[20:15] <Tramvai> Figured as much, thank you :)
[20:15] <HixPad> Can anyone remember the name of the free design software for rf circuits? chrisstubbs
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[20:15] Nick change: [1]G8KNN -> G8KNN
[20:15] <Upu> if you're getting it from HAB Supplies speak to me first Tramvai
[20:15] <chrisstubbs> ahh it was by that company that once was HP
[20:15] <chrisstubbs> errrrr
[20:15] <Tramvai> I found an NTX2 at an electronics store here for 33¬.
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[20:15] <chrisstubbs> might be on evernote let me check
[20:15] <Upu> ouch :)
[20:16] <Tramvai> HAB Supplies?
[20:16] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/
[20:16] <Tramvai> Wait a second
[20:16] <Tramvai> Upu
[20:16] <Tramvai> Upuaut
[20:16] <Tramvai> I see... :P
[20:16] <HixPad> Heh
[20:16] <Tramvai> Ordered the uBlox from there
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[20:17] <Upu> thats my shop
[20:17] <mclane> Upu: what is the advantage of the LMT2?
[20:17] <chrisstubbs> hix appcad
[20:17] <Upu> I sent you a private message
[20:17] <Upu> mclane frequency agile
[20:17] <HixPad> Nice cheers chrisstubbs
[20:17] <Upu> has a TCXO so is very stable
[20:17] <Tramvai> You have a great shop, I would have probably given up on my mission without the website
[20:17] <Upu> extremely linear response
[20:17] <mclane> so you can do dominoex with it?
[20:17] <Upu> with a DAC on it yes
[20:17] <LeoBodnar> mclane frequency? Is it Die Hard?
[20:17] <Upu> Its something I'm in the process of testing
[20:18] <x-f> Tramvai, have you got a radio receiver in your arsenal yet?
[20:18] <mclane> LeoBodnar: should be ISM band (I have no ham licence)
[20:18] <Tramvai> No, I have not
[20:18] <Tramvai> I am currently searching for a um... radio amateur
[20:19] <mclane> Upu: DAC should have what kind of resolution?
[20:19] <Tramvai> Someone with knowledge of radio signals and with the equipment
[20:19] <LeoBodnar> I see, it has to be ISM even if you have the license.
[20:20] <mclane> I live in Germany
[20:20] <Upu> in theory a 16 bit DAC on an LMT2 should give
[20:20] <Upu> 1 sec
[20:20] <Upu> 1/12 of a hz
[20:21] <Upu> in theory
[20:21] <mclane> but then the reference voltage needs to be very stable
[20:21] <Upu> yeah
[20:21] <LeoBodnar> Is it ratiometric vs power supply or absolute Upu ?
[20:21] <Maxell> B-2 not been heard anymore?
[20:21] <mclane> which I do not assume to be realistic in a hab environment
[20:21] <LeoBodnar> Splashdown
[20:21] <Maxell> fuuu
[20:22] <Upu> no idea LeoBodnar I'll send you one to play with
[20:22] <LeoBodnar> Good flight though!
[20:22] <LeoBodnar> Cheers :)
[20:22] <mclane> 1V -> 10bit -> 1 mV (about) / bit
[20:23] <Tramvai> 7.4V power source is fine for an Arduino, right?
[20:23] <mclane> LeoBodnar: I am considering 434 MHz but also 868 MHz
[20:24] <Tramvai> Arduino Uno that is.
[20:24] <Willdude123> Hi guys, and Upu :)
[20:24] <Upu> hi Willdude123
[20:24] <HixPad> Tramvai: Yeah that's fine. Onboard reg
[20:24] <Upu> Yes Tramvai
[20:24] <Upu> however
[20:25] <Upu> a trick for you
[20:25] <Upu> just get a step up converter from somewhere
[20:25] <Upu> Sparkfun LiPower on
[20:25] <Upu> one
[20:25] <LeoBodnar> 434 is great because lots of hams have 70cm equipment already installed.
[20:25] <Upu> and feed it into the 5V
[20:25] <Upu> not whilst plugged into PC though
[20:26] <Willdude123> Upu: Daveake offered to lend me a K&R book.
[20:26] <Upu> tbh Tramvai this may be of interest : http://i.imgur.com/MYRQ2Im.jpg
[20:26] <Upu> K&R ?
[20:26] <Willdude123> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language
[20:26] <Willdude123> If you see him before I do, tell him my address.
[20:27] <Willdude123> Unless there's someway to send messages to offline peop.e
[20:27] <Upu> its called "email" :)
[20:27] <Willdude123> I don't know his email.
[20:27] <mclane> LeoBodnar: we do not have a lot of distributed listeners here
[20:28] <mclane> so I am on my own basically
[20:28] <Upu> I'll mention it to him
[20:28] <HixPad> Willdude123: Search logs. I posted a Dropbox link to PDF of k&r
[20:28] <Willdude123> Thanks.
[20:28] <Tramvai> Thank you, Upu
[20:28] <Upu> thats a prototype HAB shield
[20:28] <Willdude123> Today?
[20:28] <Upu> yeah
[20:28] <Upu> it will have an onboard step ip
[20:28] <Upu> so you can power it from a pair of AA's
[20:28] <Upu> ~12-14 hours
[20:29] <Tramvai> Oh
[20:29] <Willdude123> HixPad: Can't find it.
[20:29] <Willdude123> When did you post it?
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[20:30] <HixPad> Past couple of weeks Boolean search
[20:30] <LeoBodnar> I still think 434 is easier. 868 is much more demanding to RF layout, etc.
[20:30] <LeoBodnar> You can get ham rigs and 70cm antennas for use on 434
[20:30] <x-f> Upu, what are the three SMA connectors for? GPS, radio and..?
[20:31] <HixPad> http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs_highlighted/highaltitude.log.20130620.html
[20:31] <HixPad> Willdude123: ^
[20:31] <Upu> Active GPS antenna, LMT2 and optional HX1 on the bottom, it can do APRS simultaniously
[20:31] <x-f> nice
[20:31] <mclane> LeoBodnar: yes, correct (I have flown 5 habs with NTX2 and RFM22 so far)
[20:32] <mclane> I need a new challenge ;-))
[20:32] <HixPad> Willdude123: Got it?
[20:32] <LeoBodnar> Try live videolink on 2.4GHz then :)
[20:32] <HixPad> Ctrl f is your friend from that link
[20:33] <Willdude123> Yeah.
[20:33] <arko> woah! who's N6NHP?
[20:33] <Willdude123> But I'd rather have a proper copy.
[20:33] <Willdude123> I'll read it though.
[20:33] <mclane> thats what I plan for 868MHz (not quite live video, but SSDV with a little higher baud rate)
[20:33] <arko> anyone know this person?
[20:34] <Tramvai> Might be a silly question: is there really no antenna on the NTX2?
[20:34] <HixPad> Willdude123: You could google dave Ackerman and find his site, email form there
[20:34] <HixPad> Tramvai: You attach one to the ntx2
[20:34] <HixPad> Most use a 1/4 wave
[20:34] <HixPad> Via an sma
[20:35] <mclane> Tramvai: no, needs to be added (lambda/4 at 70 cm wavelength is about 18cm)
[20:35] <Tramvai> Thanks!
[20:35] <HixPad> 164mm iirc
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[20:36] <HixPad> Time to eat, chill and not look at screens anymore. Night all
[20:37] <x-f> night
[20:37] <arko> night
[20:37] <Willdude123> Wow. My CPU is at 14C
[20:37] <Willdude123> And the ambient temperature is about the same.
[20:38] <Willdude123> Probably higher, but wait that would be impossible.l
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[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[20:43] <Tramvai> Hi there
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[20:46] <Willdude123> Hallo
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[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> payload in the freezer did it again http://s.gullipics.com/image/f/q/v/5yvcmp-kss92p-0zon/TemperatureComparison.png
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> far too high value for DS18B20
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[21:04] <mikestir> Lunar_Lander: it's not a software bug is it? the start temperature looks way too low as well, like the range is compressed
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> I was checking the part where the double gets converted into a string, it is the same as in the code that flew on March 5 and worked well
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> I suspect software too but I will also try another DS18B20 first
[21:07] <mikestir> if it's out by a factor of 8 it would be in the right ballpark
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> everything is the same
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> in the software
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> the dtostrf function and so on
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> only difference is that it runs on an atmega644P instead of the 2560 now
[21:15] <LeoBodnar> Lunar_Lander: looks like DS18* is self-heating somehow.
[21:15] <LeoBodnar> Can you turn it off between readings?
[21:16] <mikestir> it goes into standby itself iirc, and it's then specced at 750nA
[21:17] <mikestir> but look at the positive temperatures - they are too low, not too high
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[21:18] <LeoBodnar> Do you have similar room temperatures on all sensors Lunar_Lander ?
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> Maybe wrong scaling?
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> room temperature http://paste.ubuntu.com/5838595/
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> column 11, 13 and 14 are BMP085, DS18B20 and HIH-6121 respectively
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[21:21] <mikestir> weird
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[21:25] <mikestir> Lunar_Lander: Can you return the raw values as well as a sanity check?
[21:26] <mikestir> or feed a counter into the conversion routine to test it
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[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> will try that
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> thanks mikestir
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[21:36] <ibanezmatt13> What's the biggest balloon available today for HAB?
[21:36] <ibanezmatt13> 3000g?
[21:37] <fsphil> not sure you can even get that off the shelf
[21:37] <eroomde> i've not seen bigger
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[21:38] <eroomde> but you can get 3000g from steve if you ask
[21:39] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not getting a 3000g, I was just curious :)
[21:40] <ibanezmatt13> My Dad says we should do a future project involving rocket science, similar to what dave did with LOHAN but... up :)
[21:40] <ibanezmatt13> I'm sure we'd get permission for that :P
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[21:43] <eroomde> lol
[21:43] <eroomde> i have used several 3kg balloons
[21:43] <eroomde> about 5 or 6
[21:43] <eroomde> they are good at lifting
[21:43] <eroomde> but their burst alts are quite variable
[21:43] <eroomde> guess the production isn't as consistant on them
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[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> evening roc
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> oh
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[22:21] <LeoBodnar> Good night guys!
[22:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> Night LeoBodnar
[22:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> its time for me also
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[22:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all
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[22:49] <LeoBodnar> Gah! Found zero lat/lon bug affecting B-1 and B-2
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[22:54] <anerDev> hello guys
[22:54] <LeoBodnar> If (bit 15 in 64 bit UBX lat/lon coordinates == 1) then bugger(coordinates);
[22:55] <LeoBodnar> Assembly hiccup. Picked up wrong register to check!
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[22:56] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> Clearly UBX is evil.
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> And you should use NEMA
[22:57] <LeoBodnar> Clearly my assembly language attention span is two lines
[23:00] <LeoBodnar> Basically this error translates into the whole area of the UK painted in black and white stripes about 363m high and 223m wide. You only get correct coordinates on the intersection of two white stripes.
[23:00] <LeoBodnar> So you get 25% chance of GPS working.
[23:00] <LeoBodnar> Random pretty much.
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:02] <LeoBodnar> Absolutely ironically both places where I tested the system - the office and my home are on the intersection of white stripes.
[23:03] <LeoBodnar> Launch site was on the black/white intersection. So Lat did not work but Lon was OK?
[23:03] <LeoBodnar> I was pulling my hair out.
[23:03] <LeoBodnar> Fixed now.
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[00:00] --- Wed Jul 3 2013