highaltitude.log.20130701

[00:00] <G4MYS_Andy> yes Iain is here acording to the list
[00:00] <Lunar_Lander> I think it will come down where the predicted path has that bend right now
[00:00] <Lunar_Lander> do you know how I mean?
[00:01] <iain_G4SGX> Yep, still here..
[00:02] <G4MYS_Andy> yes 35 miles is a little further out but could be some on shore winds
[00:02] <LeoBodnar> PA3WEG how?
[00:03] <G4MYS_Andy> I see HORIZ 2 is baxk testing
[00:04] <iain_G4SGX> Elevation 45.7 deg
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[00:07] <iain_G4SGX> If its just leaking a full sac of hydrogen landing on North Walsham should liven it up, always hated that town.. :)
[00:08] <Lunar_Lander> dropping just a little bit faster
[00:09] <Lunar_Lander> iain_G4SGX, please hang on
[00:09] <Lunar_Lander> just half an hour left
[00:10] <iain_G4SGX> Will do but reception East of me is patchy, antenna too low
[00:10] <Lunar_Lander> ohhh
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[00:20] <gonzo_> spacenear is really showing a mad prediction now
[00:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[00:23] <gonzo_> it's going to be a wet landing. Was there anythuing on it that they wanted back?
[00:24] <iain_G4SGX> Fading fast for me now
[00:25] <SpeedEvil> And it's turning!
[00:25] <SpeedEvil> Gonna be too late unless it does a 180 though
[00:25] <qyx_> maybe some sea winds?
[00:26] <SpeedEvil> I guess feet wet at 1420m or so now.
[00:26] <Lunar_Lander> no updates
[00:26] <SpeedEvil> Quite
[00:28] <db_g6gzh> still on the waterfall but too weak to get a decode over local noise
[00:28] <iain_G4SGX> Ver weak trace only
[00:29] <g0hww> faded completely for me
[00:30] <db_g6gzh> 66RY.83592,1.52983,892,4.2381,82D0*47AC
[00:34] <iain_G4SGX> Gone for me too
[00:34] <db_g6gzh> yep, night all
[00:35] <iain_G4SGX> nite all, been a good flight
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[00:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah awesome flight
[00:38] <Lunar_Lander> never had something like that before!
[00:38] <Lunar_Lander> night
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[02:59] <F6AGV> http://alerte-radiosondes.blogspot.fr/2013/06/ballon-hablab-du-30-juin-2013.html
[02:59] <F6AGV> morning
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[03:03] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re : Re: [UKHAS] Vague Launch Announcement XABEN-52 et al"
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[05:36] <Upu_M0UPU> morning all
[05:36] <Darkside> morning
[05:37] <Upu_M0UPU> were those last packets from HABLAB "faked" as they aren't in the export telemetry
[05:38] <Upu_M0UPU> mind you
[05:38] <Upu_M0UPU> should have been even if faked
[05:38] <Upu_M0UPU> Was the payload doc set to stop @ midnight ?
[05:42] <Upu_M0UPU> interesting
[05:42] <Upu_M0UPU> @ 800 meters alt
[05:42] <Upu_M0UPU> it was still over the ground
[05:42] <Upu_M0UPU> 52.83722,1.48338
[05:43] <Darkside> this situation sounds familiar
[05:43] <Darkside> Horus 8
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[05:44] <jcoxon> that is one amazing flight path
[05:45] <Upu_M0UPU> I think it turned as it landed
[05:45] <Upu_M0UPU> 01:30] <db_g6gzh> 66RY.83592,1.52983,892,4.2381,82D0*47AC
[05:46] <Upu_M0UPU> if you fix that up
[05:46] <Upu_M0UPU> 53.83592,1.52983,892
[05:46] <Upu_M0UPU> still over land
[05:47] <jcoxon> hehe
[05:47] <jcoxon> wonder if anyone is nearby to have a listen
[05:49] <Upu_M0UPU> Actually take that back its in the sea but only just
[05:53] <jcoxon> difficult round there
[05:53] <jcoxon> big tides
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[06:11] <Maxell> At 7347 meters altitude, G6GZH was the first UK lister to hear HABANERO
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[07:27] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[07:28] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk - POP/ASTRA Launch ~1400BST 01/07/13 from Oakham, UK
[07:28] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[07:28] <jonsowman> any objections to my clearing the tracker ahead of further launches today?
[07:29] <fsphil> who's up today?
[07:29] <jonsowman> southampton people with POP/ASTRA from a school in Oakham
[07:29] Action: fsphil reads the title
[07:30] <jonsowman> hehe
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[07:49] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning :)
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[07:50] <fsphil> you're half right
[07:51] <ibanezmatt13> I'm either half right or never right :)
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[07:52] <fsphil> you may have made an infinite loop there
[07:52] <G4MYS_Andy> Morning all late night last night!!!
[07:53] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: think I did
[07:53] <fsphil> yea looks like she ditched in the sea
[07:54] <costyn> for those interested, this was our camera platform: http://imgur.com/a/Jnktr#2
[07:54] <ibanezmatt13> looked like a great setup on that livestream costyn
[07:55] Nick change: jess--asleep -> Jess--
[07:55] <costyn> ibanezmatt13: thanks
[07:56] <costyn> ibanezmatt13: it worked really well for being so simple. it didn't wobble or spin like payloads usually do
[07:56] <costyn> ibanezmatt13: the video from it is actually very watchable without getting sick from all the spinning
[07:56] <ibanezmatt13> How should I avoid spinning in my flight?
[07:56] <costyn> ibanezmatt13: good that you could see enough details from the livestream; the quality wasn't very good
[07:57] <ibanezmatt13> I watched it from the police car at the launch site to the step ladders at the end :P
[07:57] <costyn> ibanezmatt13: if you only have a stills camera, you don't need such an elaborate setup, but if you have video, making something ilke this is a good idea
[07:57] <costyn> ibanezmatt13: cool
[07:57] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, no stills, just video
[07:57] <ibanezmatt13> We've not attempted anything to give any stability from spinning because we're not sure how.
[07:58] <costyn> if you dn't want such a huge thing you can build a payload and then put a foam ball on the end of a rod to try to give it more rotational inertia
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[07:59] <costyn> jonsowman: I think I've made all the screenshots I wanted so you can clear habanero and maxell_chase
[07:59] <ibanezmatt13> I must admit it's not exactly small; it's more tall than wide but it's not that big
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[08:01] <ibanezmatt13> Any idea of a possible way to stop my box from spinning. I could try that ball idea costyn but I'm open to all other ideas too :)
[08:04] <daveake> despite the name, a spinner :)
[08:05] <daveake> sorry
[08:05] <daveake> a swivel
[08:05] <daveake> better name :)
[08:05] <daveake> this sort of thing http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-Barrel-Swivels-SIZE-4-66lb-Sea-Coarse-Fishing-Rigs-/121109049425?pt=UK_SportingGoods_FishingAcces_RL&hash=item1c32a97051
[08:05] <ibanezmatt13> a swivel? :) Morning btw
[08:06] <ibanezmatt13> Fishing rings?
[08:06] <ibanezmatt13> Would that not accelerate the spin?
[08:07] <Jess--> allows the balloon to spin without the payload
[08:07] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right, I was thinking it allowed the payload to spin without the balloon :P
[08:08] <ibanezmatt13> How does that attach to the balloonn?
[08:08] <ibanezmatt13> balloon*
[08:09] <Jess--> on the line between balloon and payload
[08:09] <ibanezmatt13> So is the lines split in two for this?
[08:09] <Jess--> yes
[08:09] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, sounds good
[08:09] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks
[08:09] <Jess--> you tend to get more spin on descent
[08:10] <Jess--> you could hear titan was doing around 120rpm on the way down
[08:11] <Jess--> and to be honest I think it tied the chute up on that one
[08:11] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right, I think those hooks are a good idea though
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[08:12] <x-f> costyn, nice pictures of the coastline and the moonshots from yesterday, congratulations on a successful flight!
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[08:27] <m3eav> whats going up, whats on th emap but should be marked test etc?
[08:27] <m3eav> i take it pop/astra is today
[08:27] <Jess--> anyone know the legality of releasing a glider from a balloon?
[08:28] <Jess--> unguided
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[08:29] <Jess--> 600g, 1m wingspan
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[08:53] <eroomde> Jess--: probably not even legislators
[09:02] <daveake> The permission I get for flights says that the equipment will "descend by parachute", however I check the "parachute" box on the application form. Don't check that :-)
[09:02] <daveake> Or, more sensibly, depoly parachute near the ground so it doesn't fly sideways into some unexpecting person
[09:03] <daveake> deploy even
[09:05] <Jess--> I specified unguided because guided brings it under laws regarding uav's
[09:05] <daveake> yes I thought that :)
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[09:05] <Jess--> now trying to work out how to stash a chute on the glider and be able to deploy it
[09:05] <eroomde> i think most people have thought that at some point
[09:05] <eroomde> mortar
[09:05] <eroomde> or sprung pilot
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[09:07] <ibanezmatt13> I've had a revolution with my box design. I'm gonna make moulds for each component in a layer, then another mould for those components in another layer, then merge the two layers together and everything should fit. The only thing I'm having trouble with is routing the wires through the foam. Apart from that, I think it'll be a decent design
[09:08] <Jess--> question is at what point does a glider become guided? if I have self levelling to stop it spiralling and control of the pitch (to try and prevent stalling or dive) but ignore heading (so it goes whatever direction it happens to be pointing when it's released) is it still unguided
[09:12] <eroomde> i think this is the kind of thing that no one legislating has thought of (it's very grey) and there isn't a right answer
[09:12] <eroomde> you'd have to test it
[09:12] <eroomde> thre are other questions in a similar vein too
[09:12] <eroomde> at what point does a parachute become a glider (given parachutes glide)
[09:12] <eroomde> and parachutes are usually stable
[09:12] <eroomde> i've always thought you'd get away with a guided parachute
[09:12] <eroomde> like a parafoil
[09:13] <eroomde> legally if not from an engineering pov anyway
[09:18] <HixWork> woo hoo parafoils
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[09:19] <eroomde> hard to control though
[09:19] <Jess--> eroomde: this is the sort of aircraft I was thinking of (turns out it's a lot lighter than I thought) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190862122081
[09:20] <eroomde> i'd give it a go and see what happens
[09:20] <eroomde> it'll be much easier to write a control laws for that than a parafoil
[09:21] <fsphil> hard not to end up with a tangled mess of cords
[09:21] <eroomde> exactly
[09:21] <eroomde> parafoils don't really recover from stalls
[09:21] <eroomde> unless you get lucky
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[09:25] <UpuWork> you could stick an Ardupilot in that and it would work fine
[09:25] <UpuWork> however not legal
[09:26] <Jess--> would it be legal if ardupilot was NOT controlling direction of flight, merely pitch and roll to keep it flying
[09:26] <Jess--> natural direction of flight would end up being downwind
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[09:31] <eroomde> i'm not sure how the law views stability
[09:31] <eroomde> i.e. if it allows electronics in the loop
[09:31] <eroomde> vs passively stable
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[09:34] <Jess--> I don't see how you could be sure of passive stability at high altitude and maintain it all the way down
[09:34] <eroomde> a really high wing
[09:35] <eroomde> i.e. low CoG relative to the wing
[09:35] <LeoBodnar> I think "unguided" means it is not directionally controlled.
[09:36] <Jess--> I suppose a delta wing with lots of dihedral would fly, but it wouldnt glide too well
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[09:36] <Jess--> that was my thinking LeoBodnar
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[09:37] <eroomde> someone did have a go at this in the past
[09:37] <eroomde> it worked moderately well
[09:38] <eroomde> but i don't think he was bothered about legality
[09:38] <eroomde> cool project though, got me into hab
[09:38] <Jess--> there was PARIS from the register, from memory they flew from spain
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[09:38] <Jess--> but that was no control at all on the plane
[09:39] <eroomde> yes, this was slightly more sophisticaed than that....
[09:39] <eroomde> it was guided
[09:39] <eroomde> trying to find link, it's rather fallen off the net
[09:39] <eroomde> was over 10 years ago
[09:39] <Jess--> so it would have been before the rules regarding uav's came in then
[09:40] <eroomde> http://web.archive.org/web/20061026014851/http://www.members.shaw.ca/sonde/
[09:40] <eroomde> it was in canada too
[09:41] <fsphil> is that the team that flew into a mountain?
[09:42] <eroomde> i think so, on one of the flights
[09:43] <fsphil> yea, 5th flight
[09:43] <eroomde> that's still about the coolest hab project i've seen
[09:43] <eroomde> 11 years later
[09:44] <fsphil> live images too
[09:44] <eroomde> oh there was a v2 that never made it
[09:44] <eroomde> and he discussing the thing i calculated the other day
[09:45] <eroomde> the discrete change in ascent velocity due to reynolds nuber
[09:49] <fsphil> yea this was the first hab project I'd heard of -- someone mentioned it on slashdot, back when that wasn't as awful as it is today
[09:50] <eroomde> it's cool
[09:50] <eroomde> should do more stuff like that
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[09:53] <eroomde> it's much easier now hardware-wise too
[09:55] <Jess--> just the pesky laws get in the way now
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[09:58] <HixWork> If someone is going to do it, surely they have to launch a scale U2 :)
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[10:04] <M0TVU> Morning all
[10:05] <M0TVU> Can anyone tell me what happened to HORIZON yesterday
[10:05] <Ugi> I was wondering what happened to HABLAB - last tracked very close to the coast!
[10:07] <fsphil> all I heard was they lost the balloon when the payload got caught in some trees
[10:08] <fsphil> which would suggest not enough lift, and bad knots
[10:09] <Jess--> M0TVU: wind took the payload into trees, balloon seperated and flew off minus payload
[10:09] <SpeedEvil> hqblab - signal was lost
[10:09] <SpeedEvil> just before it crossed the coast
[10:09] <fsphil> yea hablab is likely floating a second time
[10:10] <fsphil> not sure you can call that a float though. more a slow fall
[10:10] <SpeedEvil> probably fell in 5km or so in the waters
[10:10] <fsphil> probably with a mostly inflated balloon too
[10:11] <mfa298> That should make it easier to spot
[10:11] <SpeedEvil> true - massive sail area
[10:11] <HixWork> SpeedEvil, founf that channel its ##ibmthinkpad
[10:11] <mfa298> could be interesting to be the local coast guard:
[10:12] <mfa298> Fisherman: there's this strange white ball floating above the sea
[10:12] <gonzo_> would lookm like the intro to 'the prisoner'
[10:12] <HixWork> heh
[10:13] <SpeedEvil> would probably burst quite quick when the payload fouled it
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[10:21] <x-f> depends on the weight of the payload - maybe the balloon never touched the water at all
[10:24] <Ugi> Interesting if the baloon sat like a flag above the payload! The wind could blow it quite a long way!
[10:25] <HixWork> HABKrakken
[10:26] <gonzo_> that seems to be a probable landing situation for multi balloon foil picos
[10:26] <gonzo_> unless iot's in a tree
[10:26] <Ugi> Was that the method - lots of small foil balloons?
[10:27] <Ugi> I noticed the small drop & then float & wondered how that was done
[10:27] <gonzo_> my last one, I ran the antenna up the line to the balloons, to try and take advantage of that. So keeping the antenna up in the air when on the ground
[10:27] <gonzo_> not sure what this one was
[10:27] <gonzo_> the max alt of 30km suggests a latex
[10:28] <fsphil> two latex balloons I believe
[10:28] <gonzo_> poss it was filled to only have a little lift?
[10:28] <fsphil> only one burst
[10:28] <gonzo_> That would explain it phil
[10:29] <Ugi> cunning
[10:29] <mfa298> I think Steve said 2 300g balloons
[10:29] <fsphil> so you could fill one to have no lift
[10:29] <Ugi> with a mechanism to ensure the dead balloon falls away when it bursts?
[10:29] <fsphil> and the other with some lift to get it up
[10:33] <gonzo_> I have to get on and test my pressure relief valves. Knocked a prototype up, but jst been sooooo busy
[10:33] <gonzo_> then can try the 100gm floater
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[10:37] <eroomde> Ugi: someone said he just let the dead one hang
[10:37] <eroomde> when it burst
[10:37] <eroomde> and it just sat underneath the one filled for neutral bouyancy
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[10:39] <Ugi> fair enough, if you can make that work. 300g seems like a lot of dead-weight but it seems to have worked well.
[10:39] <eroomde> well rmemeber the balloons in theory shred
[10:39] <eroomde> so you won't have the whole 300g sitting there
[10:40] <eroomde> but yes i agree in principle
[10:40] <eroomde> when we used this technique a few years ago we cut away the lifter balloon before it burst
[10:40] <eroomde> easier to be sure of your masses that way
[10:40] <eroomde> and also we were testing a star camera so didn't want the risk of latex falling over the lens
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[10:47] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[10:47] <HixWork> I've managed to source a supplier for Laser solder stencils. Stainless with Aluminium frame
[10:47] <Lunar_LanderU> what an amazing flight that was indeed
[10:47] <HixWork> £20 pluss shipping for ~A5 sized stencil
[10:49] <eroomde> you seem a bit stunned Lunar_LanderU
[10:49] <eroomde> HixWork: that's impressive
[10:49] <HixWork> yes, they seem on the ball too.
[10:49] <HixWork> smart-prototypes
[10:49] <Lunar_LanderU> well I think we never had such a slow descent before
[10:49] <HixWork> eroomde, nickjohnson uses them [you know FETgate]
[10:50] <HixWork> These guys http://goo.gl/yUuDs
[10:50] <HixWork> there is no option to order a stencil on its won, but you can add to a pcb order [I#ll stick with Mitch for PCBs]
[10:51] <HixWork> though you can email them and it works that way
[10:51] <Darkside> i dont think mitch does stencils anymore
[10:51] <eroomde> Lunar_LanderU: i believe there has been
[10:51] <fsphil> Lunar_LanderU: yea there've been a few
[10:51] Action: HixWork raises a virtual glass to having a stencil at last
[10:51] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[10:51] <HixWork> no Darkside but I've founf an alternative source
[10:51] <HixWork> Darkside, http://goo.gl/yUuDs
[10:51] <HixWork> ftw
[10:52] <Darkside> ok
[10:52] <HixWork> I'll report back when it arrives
[10:53] <Darkside> please do
[10:53] <HixWork> sure
[10:54] <HixWork> they seem pretty on the ball so far. I'll still use mitch though for my boards
[10:54] <eroomde> he's simply the best
[10:54] <eroomde> der der der der
[10:54] <fsphil> better than all the rest?
[10:55] <HixWork> heh. He's a damn good guy
[10:55] <fsphil> I know a Tina Turner song. Kill me now
[10:55] <eroomde> we all do
[10:55] <staylo> I never heard that one, sounds quite depressing
[10:55] <eroomde> she lives in all of our hearts
[10:56] <eroomde> is she still alive?
[10:56] <Darkside> rolling
[10:56] <eroomde> yes
[10:56] <Darkside> (rolling)
[10:56] <Darkside> rolling
[10:56] <Darkside> (rolling)
[10:56] <Darkside> rolling on the river
[10:57] <Darkside> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brdqJ29PQac
[10:57] <Lunar_LanderU> Adele is cool too
[10:57] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[10:58] <eroomde> no
[10:58] <fsphil> you took that too far
[10:59] <HixWork> Darkside, you've now given me an earworm http://goo.gl/5oNZb
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[11:00] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu_M0UPU
[11:01] <Darkside> goddamnit
[11:01] <Darkside> now i am listening to stuff by the seekers
[11:02] <ibanezmatt13> I'm trying to cut moulds into a piece of foam for some components and the tool I'm using isn't working very well. What tool should I use if I want to cut shapes into the foam without going all the way through? Stanley knife isn't working and I don't have a hot wire cutter
[11:02] <HixWork> scalpels cut cleanly with a new blade
[11:03] <ibanezmatt13> I was cable to cut the outline for the mould, but trying to scrape out the foam with a stanley knife didn't work, and that was very sharp
[11:04] <daveake> "was"
[11:04] <daveake> That stuff blunts blades quite quickly
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[11:05] <daveake> Get a scalpel for the twiddly bits
[11:05] <eroomde> a dremel
[11:05] <eroomde> make dust *everywhere*
[11:05] <mfa298> a scalpel might work better as its likely to have a thinner blade (and often even sharper than a stanley knife - but not as strong)
[11:05] <daveake> And donb't cut through a nerve in your finger like I did at your age :D
[11:05] <eroomde> with the devils own tool
[11:05] <eroomde> perpetrator of a billion bodged efforts the world over
[11:05] <daveake> Someone should invent a 3D foam printer
[11:06] <HixWork> CNC mill it and be done with it
[11:06] <daveake> :)
[11:06] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not sure I have a scalpel. I'll see what I can do.
[11:06] Action: daveake looks around
[11:06] <daveake> nope don't have one :p
[11:06] <eroomde> cnc mills do work nicely on that blue foam
[11:06] <HixWork> yup use them in F1 for cores
[11:06] <ibanezmatt13> I would normally cut the foam with a panel saw but this involves me not going all the way through
[11:07] <daveake> Melt with a soldering iron. Die young.
[11:07] <daveake> ^^ not serious
[11:07] <daveake> serious ^^
[11:07] <daveake> missed
[11:08] <fsphil> there is no step 3
[11:09] <ibanezmatt13> I'll ask my granddad, he's probably got some tool that'll wor
[11:09] <ibanezmatt13> work
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[11:12] <eroomde> chisel
[11:13] <Lunar_LanderU> soldering iron works awesome but stinks and smokes
[11:13] <fsphil> the fumes are quite dangerous
[11:13] <fsphil> don't do that :)
[11:17] <ibanezmatt13> would a chisel definitely work?
[11:17] <ibanezmatt13> I have several of those
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[11:19] <mikestir> can anyone give me some advice on the CAA exemption for picos? Can they be launched without obtaining CAA clearance?
[11:19] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: would a chisel definitely work?
[11:20] <fsphil> mikestir: if the entire thing fits within a 2m sphere at all times during the flight, then yes
[11:20] <fsphil> it's exempt
[11:20] <eroomde> stop using the word definitely
[11:20] <daveake> mikestir Needs to be < 2metres in any direction and at all times during the flight
[11:20] <eroomde> i've told you once
[11:20] <daveake> you definitely have
[11:20] <eroomde> you can't use it in engineering
[11:20] <eroomde> it's not a concept
[11:21] <mfa298> unless marketing has had a totally out there idea that definitely won't work.
[11:22] <mfa298> although even then a good engineer might have a go
[11:22] <mikestir> fsphil: daveake: thanks. The "small balloons" exemption in the CAA doc states that article 163 - the one about balloons - still applies. What's the deal with that?
[11:23] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, I'll try it. My apolgies for the word "definite"
[11:23] <ibanezmatt13> brb
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[11:25] <fsphil> 163-(2) is annoying
[11:25] <fsphil> ah, tethered
[11:25] <fsphil> ignore that
[11:25] <HixWork> is aweful a word. If so its should be an autonym for awful
[11:26] <fsphil> aweful .. full of awe?
[11:26] <gonzo_> full of awe. seems to suggest a quite differet description
[11:28] <mikestir> fsphil: Is the implication that anything not mentioned explicitly in 163 is fair game? The only mention of uncontrolled balloons is the rather vague para 4
[11:29] <HixWork> not necessarily full of awe, just aweful. I like it as opposed to awful.
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[11:29] <Ugi> electronics 101 question - probably showing my ignorance here: is there any additional spec' to capacitors beyond capacity & working voltage?
[11:30] <daveake> yes
[11:30] <Ugi> what & how do I assess it?
[11:30] <daveake> working temperature ... inductance
[11:30] <fsphil> mikestir: seems to be. 163 looks to deal with flying in airports or restricted areas
[11:30] <fsphil> which is sensible enough
[11:30] <Ugi> OK. Working temp I have under control
[11:31] <mfa298> there's lots of variables, the question would tend to be which ones matter in your particular scenario.
[11:31] <Ugi> Inductance - is that labeled on a cap?
[11:31] <Ugi> sizable electrolytic
[11:31] <gonzo_> ESR
[11:31] <daveake> nah you'd need the datasheet
[11:31] <daveake> ESR is the one you might want though
[11:32] <fsphil> dielectric absorption
[11:32] <fsphil> learned about that recently
[11:32] <daveake> leakage
[11:32] <daveake> tolerance
[11:32] <fsphil> where a fully drained capacitor might recover some voltage
[11:32] <gonzo_> physical dims
[11:32] <daveake> ability to emit nasty smoke when connected the wrong way round :)
[11:32] <daveake> or explode
[11:32] <fsphil> they're good at exploding
[11:32] <Ugi> physical dim's I also have but what is ESR in context?
[11:33] <Ugi> as background - I replaced a cap# & teh new one got hot
[11:33] <Ugi> the
[11:33] <mfa298> life time in hours of use (some are only rated for 1000 hours and may emit nasty smoke)
[11:33] <Ugi> I suppose I had the spec' wrong
[11:33] <daveake> hot??!!
[11:33] <daveake> oops
[11:33] <gonzo_> effective series resistance
[11:33] <Ugi> yep
[11:33] <Ugi> hot = bad
[11:34] <Ugi> I believe
[11:34] <gonzo_> think of a perfert cap, with a res in series
[11:34] <Ugi> gotach.
[11:34] <Ugi> could well be the issue given the symptoms
[11:34] <Ugi> are cap's marked for that?
[11:34] Action: mfa298 is having memories of circuit theory lectures and making a simple circuit 10x more complicated.
[11:35] <gonzo_> may be marketed at low-esr
[11:35] <gonzo_> not usually marked
[11:35] <mfa298> Ugi: most of this stuff will be in a datasheet. Markings on the capacitor should help you find the right thing in a datasheet
[11:36] <gonzo_> a shortcut may be to find a reliable source of a similar cct design and see what tyhe designer recommends there
[11:36] <Ugi> Cap' was from my old 790R - spec's may not be too easy to find. However I do have full circuit diagram so there may be something there.
[11:37] <gonzo_> reusing old components, especially caps can be a world of wows
[11:38] <fsphil> it's quite common now to replace caps in older computers, even if they haven't failed yet
[11:38] <fsphil> you can buy kits for many
[11:38] <Ugi> not re-using. Was replacing but new one evidently not appropriate
[11:38] <gonzo_> where in the cct?
[11:39] <gonzo_> would be supprised at any components in a 790 getting hot
[11:39] <mfa298> if you can read all the markings on the cap it might be worth googling them to see if you can find out what they all mean. That should lead to looking for the right thing.
[11:39] <fsphil> maybe that cap failed because of something else
[11:39] <fsphil> which could be causing the new one to get hot
[11:39] <Ugi> my receiver was (is) not stable - googling suggested the audio circuit. Was replacing largest electrolytics on audio board since that seemed a place to start.
[11:40] <Ugi> fsphil: I wondered about that too. However, I didn't feel the old one so I don't know whether that was getting hot too.
[11:41] <gonzo_> you have schematics?
[11:41] <Ugi> I suspect not so much. this was pretty hot.
[11:41] <fsphil> is it easy to get to without taking the radio apart? I could check my own
[11:41] <Ugi> schematics - yep.
[11:41] <mikestir> is the new one definitely in the right way around?
[11:42] <Ugi> polarity - yes 100%. Board is _very_ clearly marked and it was the first thing I checked after it got hot.
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[11:43] <Ugi> fsphil: if you open the battery compartment the audio board goes across the front of the battery holder. I was changing the two obviously large cap's you see there.
[11:43] <gonzo_> poss worth posting a marked up schematic, showing what you have replaced and what is getting hot. May get better advice
[11:44] <Ugi> gonzo_: good idea. I'll scan in the relevant part when I can (it's at home & I'm at work).
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[11:45] <fsphil> I'll see if I can measure the voltage going across it, and check if its hot
[11:45] <fsphil> does it heat up straight away?
[11:46] <Ugi> I had only had this on for less than a minute, I would say.
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[11:47] <gonzo_> anything other than the main PA transistor should not be getting even warm
[11:48] <gonzo_> the old 290/790 mk1 rigs are known for being very low current draw
[11:48] <fsphil> yea I rarely have to charge the battery in this
[11:48] <fsphil> puts the ft817 to shame :)
[11:48] <G0TDJ_Steve> FYI ISS over the UK
[11:50] <Ugi> Then something is wrong, but I wonder whether it's just my new caps or whether they are heating as a symptom of whatever is really wrong.
[11:50] <G0TDJ_Steve> Actually, ISS will go over France but it's a good pass
[11:51] <Ugi> I could put the old ones back, but it seems more sensible to get correctly spec'd replacements.
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[11:53] <LeoBodnar> microphonics (for ceramic caps)
[11:53] <fsphil> is there a brand name on the old ones?
[11:54] <LeoBodnar> or piezo effect - in the opposite direction
[11:54] <Ugi> I think there was but I don' have them here & I do'nt remember what it was.
[11:54] <Ugi> don't x2
[11:55] <LeoBodnar> tempco
[11:55] <Ugi> They are an odd squat-shape. Shorter & fatter than typical.
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[12:14] <eroomde> class 1 caps are the signal-quality ones that don't have the microphonic effects
[12:14] <eroomde> don't have the density of the class 2 ones
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[12:24] <Jess--> just emailed my usual RC plane supplier to see if they can supply a suitable airframe from a returned / faulty plane, after all for my purposes it doesnt matter if the electronics are dud
[12:27] <eroomde> let us hope and pray
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[12:27] Nick change: GMT_afk -> GMT
[12:28] <GMT> any news on the laucnhes from the east Midlands this afternoon?
[12:29] <Jess--> leaning away from the ask-21 glider (reading reviews it's very twitchy on control and that's the last thing we need), looking towards the dynam hawk sky or ez hawk eroomde
[12:30] <eroomde> that does look a bit more stable
[12:30] <eroomde> high wing
[12:31] <Jess--> it flies nicely, here's video from it in 20mph winds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Jia5I5-B4
[12:31] <Jess--> mute your sound.... sorry
[12:33] <eroomde> nice
[12:33] <eroomde> presumably flying it without motor?
[12:33] <Jess--> losing the motor to reduce drag and weight
[12:34] <Jess--> it's a very floaty plane
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[12:34] <Jess--> and yes it's me you see on the ground
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[12:38] <PB0NER> hhhh hablab really went bezerk....
[12:40] <Ugi> Sounds like it was some cunning double-balloon floating excitement
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[12:42] <Jess--> guess who left the habhub app running on their phone and has just found the phone completely dead
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:44] <x-f> aww, hawksky or ez hawk.. i wanted to get one of those planes, when i wanted to get into RC-thingies, they seem very stable and are easily controllable, take beating very well
[12:46] <Jess--> x-f: I can recommend them, the one I shot the video from has been crashed into the ground at full throttle, snapped into 3 pieces, put back together with packing tape and it still flies as well as it did fresh out of the box
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[12:47] <x-f> nice :)
[12:47] <Jess--> the ez came with 35mhz gear which works but was prone to interference, the sky runs on 2.4 and has no problems
[12:50] <HixWork> the Precedent Hi-Fly would probably make a nice stable platform, not sure of the all u pweight though
[12:50] <HixWork> I resisted the urge to go to wings 'n' wheels yesterday. Fearing that I'd blow money I cant blow on shiny
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[12:54] <Jess--> HixWork: I wouldnt fancy flying something as solid as that unguided
[12:55] <Jess--> may be just me though
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[12:57] <Jess--> the hawks (stock) weigh in at 600g, I reckon that once the once the motor, esc, rx and battery are out it would be under 300 (leaving spare weight for tracker / control system & smaller battery)
[12:58] <Jess--> and being EPO if they hit anything they absorb a hell of a lot of the force
[13:02] <Jess--> just checked, the stock battery weighs in at 216g on it's own
[13:04] <PE2G> Hi all, any news whether POP/ASTRA will fly?
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[13:11] <fsphil> 1400 BST .. so, 11 minutes ago
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[13:14] <HixWork> weird. Smart-prototyping were very efficient at responding to queries and quoting, when i ask for an invoice to order and pay its all gone silent
[13:14] <fsphil> long lunch break
[13:15] <HixWork> all in the quote including registered post [not DHL etc] was US$37.20 for a framed stainless stencil a little larger than A5
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[13:18] <craag> ASTRA/POP planned for 1500 last I heard.
[13:18] <G4MYS_Andy> many thanks fer update which OAKHAM is it the oine in Rutland or Hampshire?
[13:19] <HixWork> super reasonable. All my boards on one stencil plus footprints for different ATMegas
[13:19] <craag> G4MYS_Andy: Rutland
[13:19] <G4MYS_Andy> Thank you Craag
[13:19] <mfa298> original email said 1300 BST but that was 4 days ago so could have changed a lot by now
[13:19] <fsphil> ASTRA1 is on the map
[13:19] <craag> mfa298: Twitter this morning said 1500
[13:19] <craag> It's 3 hours drive for them from soton :P
[13:19] <G4MYS_Andy> I see M6TWO can hear ir
[13:20] <fsphil> wonder if M6SIX is free
[13:20] <mfa298> craag: fair enough. I was trusting your information more than a 4 day old email anyway
[13:20] <craag> I think M6TWO might be matt?
[13:20] <mfa298> sounds vaguely familiar
[13:20] <craag> Yep it is
[13:20] <G4MYS_Andy> dont know I am member of Southampton club which is not the uni club!
[13:21] <ibanezmatt13> I managed to get this far: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8sguui3217jos8s/IMG_20130701_141418.jpg
[13:21] <craag> Member of uni club here, we're not anything to do with this launch though.
[13:22] <ibanezmatt13> The wires from my Pi need to go at the bottom of the striboard on that picture. I was wondering where would be the best place to mount the Pi
[13:22] <G4MYS_Andy> I noted that has there been a squabble?
[13:23] <craag> G4MYS_Andy: No, there's a seperate "SU Spaceflight Society" who are doing the balloon launches, and don't want much help with it. (I've been trying to get involved for a while)
[13:24] <G4MYS_Andy> funny as I am thre keeper of GB3SU currently off air the Southampton UHF repeater!
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[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu_M0UPU
[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> Upu_M0UPU: Hi Upu
[13:26] <Upu> hi ibanezmatt13
[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8sguui3217jos8s/IMG_20130701_141418.jpg I've got this far, but I'm not sure where to mount the Pi.
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> Wires from the Pi's GPIO header will need to go at the end of the stripboard near the bottom of the pi
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> pic*
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> However, I also need to have a cut out for the stripboard with all the components to sit in on the other piece
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> So I'm really confused as to where I should mount the Pi :\
[13:28] <Upu> 1 sec sorry busy
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> sure
[13:29] <Upu> another layer for the Pi ?
[13:30] <ibanezmatt13> That design will be tipped on its side so that the coax connector can go vertically down into another base layer with the 4 channels for the radials
[13:31] <ibanezmatt13> So I think another layer might be necessary
[13:31] <ibanezmatt13> But I'm not sure how to create that extra layer for the Pi because there will be several wires going from the Pi to the stripboard
[13:31] <HixWork> can the radials be embedded in the blue-foam? is it dielectric enough?
[13:32] <ibanezmatt13> we will use drinking straws
[13:32] <ibanezmatt13> and hot glue those into the channels
[13:32] <HixWork> ahhh
[13:32] <ibanezmatt13> I'm just confused as to how I mount the Pi
[13:37] <ibanezmatt13> Any ideas?
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[13:38] <Lunar_LanderU> hi GW8RAK
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[13:39] <GW8RAK> Hi Lunar_LanderU
[13:40] <Lunar_LanderU> how's life?
[13:40] <m3eav> whats ther babbon situation then
[13:40] <GW8RAK> Okay. Wish it wasn't Monday.
[13:40] <m3eav> ha balloon
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[13:40] <GW8RAK> Busy week ahead
[13:40] <eroomde> there are worse excuses to call off a launch than babboobs
[13:40] <eroomde> babboons*
[13:41] <m3eav> yeah babboons....you never seen em fly:-)
[13:41] <eroomde> i wrote an email a few months ago to someone proposing a new way of going about the design of something which i thought would be better
[13:41] <m3eav> has todays been fcalled off? been busy with some stuff not keeping up
[13:41] <craag> m3eav: Nope launch at 1500
[13:41] <eroomde> i had a section of 'miscellaneous other niceties'
[13:42] <eroomde> except i wrote 'nice tities'
[13:42] <m3eav> oh good stuff, will stick aroudn for that then, cheers
[13:42] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[13:42] <Lunar_LanderU> http://www.voelkner.de/products/44916/SMA-Einbaubuchse-90-50-Ohm-Vergoldet.html are the plugs for these easy to find?
[13:43] <Lunar_LanderU> i.e. do these fit together? http://www.voelkner.de/products/260612/SMA-Kabelstecker-Loet-Crimp-50-Ohm-Rg58.html
[13:43] <x-f> yes
[13:44] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks
[13:45] <fsphil> Temperature, External: 85.0 °C
[13:45] <Lunar_LanderU> fsphil: DS18B20?
[13:45] <HixWork> eroomde, what was the feedback on your nice tities?
[13:45] <fsphil> likely Lunar_LanderU
[13:46] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah I always get that too on arduino startup
[13:46] <Lunar_LanderU> the zeroth string always has 85°C
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[13:47] <eroomde> HixWork: they said it was the breast design they had ever seen
[13:47] <Lunar_LanderU> LOL
[13:48] <HixWork> heh
[13:48] <HixWork> I'm glad you didn't make a tit of yourself
[13:49] <S_Mark> hi all, do farnell do samples?
[13:49] <HixWork> dont' think so, what were you trying to get
[13:50] <S_Mark> a few of tsm2314cx
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[13:52] <HixWork> S_Mark, http://www.taiwansemi.com/home/en/products/sample_request.php?pid=TSM2314CX
[13:53] <S_Mark> ah thanks! will request later!
[13:53] <eroomde> S_Mark: it's usually the mnaufacturers who do samples
[13:53] <eroomde> not the retailers
[13:53] <Ugi> I'm finding DS18B20s very unstable - reads fine for a few readings then goes obviously mad. Is that a known issue?
[13:53] <eroomde> manufacturers/distributors
[13:54] <S_Mark> ok cool will check next time
[13:55] <Upu> I sell those lunar
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[13:56] <M0TVU> Good afternoon
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> 'n
[13:57] <M0TVU> Is Astra going up today?
[13:57] <craag> M0TVU: In 3 minutes, ISH
[13:57] <M0TVU> :-)
[13:57] <M0TVU> Live feed?
[13:57] <craag> No
[13:58] <m3eav> always with the "Ish" :-)
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[13:58] <M0TVU> Why the 300 Baud?
[13:58] <mfa298> m3eav: http://ukhas.org.uk/general:glossary:ish
[13:58] <craag> School launch, southampton uni spaceflight supplying advice and 2x trackers.
[13:58] <M0TVU> Oh I see
[13:58] <m3eav> mfa298...hahahahahaha]
[13:59] <craag> POP1 has a lot of sensors on board, so 300 baud to give good refresh rate.
[13:59] <m3eav> damn i got bogeys on .434.650........75 is clear though
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[14:02] <craag> Weather must be nice in Rutland today, 85 degrees outside!
[14:02] <CHRISG7OGX> lol 85 ish
[14:03] <G4MYS_Andy> perhaps they mean*F even d so thats hot!
[14:05] <mfa298> 85C might be a bit too hot to be described as nice
[14:06] <mfa298> (I'm assuming there should be a /10 in there somewhere. 8.5 would seem more likely)
[14:06] <fsphil> 85c is an invalid reading from a DS 1-wire sensor
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[14:07] <M0TVU> What's the shift for Astra?
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[14:07] <fsphil> autoconfigure should set that
[14:07] <fsphil> hopefully
[14:07] <mfa298> M0TVU: autoconfigure on dl-fldigi should get you close, then tweak if needed
[14:07] <M0TVU> So they must be both the same
[14:08] <G4MYS_Andy> I know were on ish time any news?
[14:08] <M0TVU> Just seems to alter the baud selecting betweenthe two
[14:09] <fsphil> tat's right
[14:09] <fsphil> +h
[14:09] <M0TVU> Actually it doesn't
[14:09] <M0TVU> Can't alter the baud between the two
[14:10] <M0TVU> I'll do it manually
[14:11] <G4MYS_Andy> Ive played with dl fldigi and cant change away from 300 bald so is it set up wrong?
[14:12] <mfa298> POP1 should be 300bd, ASTRA 50bd both 7n1 from the email (but no note of the shift for either)
[14:13] <mfa298> G4MYS_Andy: looks like the flight doc is wrong so you'll have to manually change to 50bd for ASTRA
[14:13] <G4MYS_Andy> OK mant thanks if I can work out how!!
[14:13] <mfa298> right click on the RTTY in the bottom left of dl-fldigi
[14:14] <G4MYS_Andy> got it in the config
[14:14] <G4MYS_Andy> many thanks
[14:14] <mfa298> if you're recieving the 300bd payload you'll probably need to change the recieve filter bandwidth on that setting page as well (to at least 300)
[14:15] <G4MYS_Andy> well see which one we can hear then sort out settings!!
[14:15] <M0TVU> 3mins ish time = 17 mins and counting realtime :-)
[14:15] <mfa298> the other useful setting in there is the carrier shift (space between mark and space frequencies)
[14:16] <mfa298> M0TVU: ISH time can be +/- 3 hours (and occasionally more)
[14:16] <G4MYS_Andy> why oh why does RTTY have to be so complicated?
[14:16] <mfa298> although rarely there's -ve ish.
[14:17] <mfa298> RTTY isn't too bad when you get used to it and at least it's tweakable on the recieve side if things change as the temperature drops
[14:17] <G4MYS_Andy> ytes I had noted the shift drift during flights Im no expert but that seems a little odd
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> It's normal.
[14:18] <G4MYS_Andy> but why?
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> But it's not ideal, it's a known problem with the transmitter.
[14:18] <mfa298> it's due to various components getting cold
[14:18] <HixWork> Think of it as electronic teetch chattering at -50C
[14:18] <G4MYS_Andy> OK many thank need to know for understanding sake
[14:19] <HixWork> coz I'm sure you would be chattering your teeth at that temp :)
[14:19] <G4MYS_Andy> weve tested auto ATUs doiwn to that temp and its COLD
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> Someone in ##physics raised a question. Replace yagi elements with disks with the axis of the yagi - do you get an antenna which has equal horizontal and vertical performance?
[14:19] <fsphil> I'd be more worried about the low pressure and imminent impact with the ground :)
[14:20] <craag> SpeedEvil: How do you feed the driven element?
[14:21] <G4MYS_Andy> Speedevil interesting try it and see! sure the ARRL antenna book will have something if its been thought about
[14:21] <craag> ASTRA1 IS UP!
[14:21] <Jess--> astra may be up
[14:21] <Jess--> snap craag
[14:21] <craag> ;)
[14:22] <mfa298> I wonder if there's no POP or if it's just had anything uploaded.
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> G4MYS_Andy: I assume with two crossed nornmal elements
[14:22] <craag> mfa298: They only have one receiver I think, so might not be uploaded.
[14:22] <G4MYS_Andy> not quite a polr phasar will have to be used then theres no point of discs
[14:23] <Jess--> 1st grren on astra
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[14:23] <Jess--> 1162m
[14:24] <Jess--> 434.076
[14:27] <Jess--> nobody else receiving it?
[14:28] <G4MYS_Andy> think i can hear something on 434.649 not sure
[14:28] <G4MYS_Andy> something on076
[14:29] <HixWork> is there a prediction for POP?
[14:29] <Jess--> there, pop on map now, good rx on either from here
[14:29] <G5SGX-iain> got something on dial 434.078
[14:29] <CHRISG7OGX> i can see ASTRA but weak
[14:30] <Jess--> pop is uploading green but not showing on map
[14:30] <Jess--> $$$$POP1,2521,14:30:01,5240.6622,-00038.5013,3581,16.1,21.3,579,26130,11108,6422*EA9A $$$$POP1,2522,14:30:05,5240.6706,-00038.4336,3608,16.1,21.3,580,26119,11079,10118*6BB4
[14:31] <mfa298> craag: I was suspecting only one reciever, although I was assuming they might have tested upload before launch (but then they might just have poor internet)
[14:31] <craag> Jess--: Issue with the paylaod doc :/
[14:32] <Jess--> seems it, back on astra now
[14:32] <Upu> Astra is 50 baud then
[14:33] <Jess--> yes, pop is 300, both transmitting fine
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[14:34] <GMT> I can just about detect a signal from ASTRA in London, nothing heard of POP
[14:34] <Upu> why is pop not on the map ?
[14:35] <Jess--> it uploads green but doesnt show, payload doc wrong?
[14:35] <fsphil> aye
[14:35] <Jess--> sample strings...
[14:35] <Jess--> $$$$POP1,2521,14:30:01,5240.6622,-00038.5013,3581,16.1,21.3,579,26130,11108,6422*EA9A $$$$POP1,2522,14:30:05,5240.6706,-00038.4336,3608,16.1,21.3,580,26119,11079,10118*6BB4
[14:35] <fsphil> experts are looking into it right now
[14:35] <fsphil> top experts
[14:35] <Upu> [2013-07-01 14:34:58,888] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: Exception in UKHAS main parse: ValueError: Incorrect number of fields (got 11, expect 7)
[14:35] <Upu> [2013-07-01 14:34:58,875] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: Parsing [ascii] '$$POP1,2591,14:34:54,5240.5575,-00033.7530,5227,16.1,19.1,577,24925,8945,10002*2E07\n' (8947bce843c80dfa56366e467b0796aaa96f9699a3112ab089a43057354ea2c5) from M0UPU-1
[14:36] <m3eav> we is experts.....
[14:36] <Jess--> so we're guessing on the extra strings then
[14:37] <HixWork> hmm no prediction on my map
[14:37] <mfa298> Email said POP is uploading Pressure, Temperature and UV
[14:37] <CHRISG7OGX> green here..I was on the ghost of ASTRA1
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[14:38] <GMT> ASTRA decoding perfectly, POP now very strong sigs
[14:41] <PE2G> POP1 on the map now
[14:42] <G4MYS_Andy> many thsanks pop1 very fast data
[14:42] <fsphil> 300 bits/s ftw
[14:44] <mfa298> at that speed you could send image data down :p
[14:44] <G4MYS_Andy> any ideas why the lat long elevation etc does not fill
[14:44] <fsphil> someone should totally try that
[14:46] <GMT> G4MYS_Andy: which balloon are you tracking?
[14:46] <G4MYS_Andy> pop1
[14:46] <GMT> have you had any green decodes yet?
[14:46] <G4MYS_Andy> yes pleanty
[14:46] <Jess--> it doesnt fill for either on mine (all green decodes)
[14:46] <G4MYS_Andy> but red ones too
[14:46] Action: mfa298 relises that having commented on setting the recieve bandwidth for 300bd he should follow his own advice
[14:46] <GMT> have you set-up your own lat.long and elevation correctly
[14:47] <G4MYS_Andy> good ! im not thre only one I like to know the elivation for interest sake
[14:47] <CHRISG7OGX> same here jess
[14:47] <mfa298> From the lines Jess-- posted it looks like the lat/long is in a format dl-fldigi may not currently support natively
[14:47] <GMT> same for me Andy
[14:47] Nick change: Jess-- -> Jess--M0VBR
[14:47] <G4MYS_Andy> never mnind Ill hang inhere looks interesting
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[14:48] <Herman-PB0AHX> i hrd pop1-astra but not writing ??
[14:49] <GMT> signals from POP ... do they hesitate in the middle of the string, or is that just for me?
[14:49] <Upu> POP is 300 baud
[14:49] <Upu> ASTRA is 50 baud
[14:49] <benoxley> heya, could somebody update the live habhub predictor please? Would be very useful right now
[14:50] <benoxley> GFS winds really dont agree with balloon flightpath haha
[14:51] <G4MYS_Andy> signal display seems to have a pause but the string is constant I think
[14:51] <GMT> maybe just my machine then, running 2 FLDIGIs
[14:51] <fsphil> a pause on a stop bit between characters would be valid
[14:51] <fsphil> though not ideal
[14:52] <GMT> gonna give-up on POP and stay with ASTRA
[14:52] <Herman-PB0AHX> al shift is 425 ??
[14:53] <fsphil> autoconfigure in dl-fldigi should set the shift for you automatically
[14:53] <G4MYS_Andy> pop1 shift 425
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[14:53] <Upu> when pop1 pops say burst not pop or its going to get confusing
[14:53] <Herman-PB0AHX> than he is not writing here is hrd him very well 59+
[14:54] <fsphil> what about popped?
[14:54] <PE2G> Currently, 650 is unusable here due to massive QRM :(
[14:54] <mfa298> with current predictions db_g6gzh will be in a good location - although no doubt that will change
[14:58] <GMT> G6GZH could walk to that landing spot ... how many hab points for that!
[14:59] <m3eav> just getting first whifs of pop through my neigbours wall and roof, no astra yet down here
[15:00] <LazyLeopard> Heh. Didn't even have to twiddle the 817's tuning. Astra pretty much exactly where HABLab left off last night.
[15:01] <G4MYS_Andy> any news on where HABLAB fell
[15:02] <Herman-PB0AHX> astra 50/425 ???
[15:02] <GMT> astra a bit narrower, say 50/400
[15:03] <PE2G> ASTRA 50/387 here
[15:03] <Herman-PB0AHX> ok tnx
[15:04] <Herman-PB0AHX> yes first green line now
[15:05] <PE2G> Hope 650 will quiet down here, would like to try 300 bd
[15:06] <fsphil> traces of astra1 here
[15:06] <Herman-PB0AHX> yesssss only green lines now from astra
[15:08] <GMT> Herman-PB0AHX: your QTH?
[15:08] <Herman-PB0AHX> my qth jo22ea Delft near rotterdam
[15:08] <GMT> okay, nice ... what distance from balloon?
[15:08] <Herman-PB0AHX> 300 km
[15:09] <Jess--M0VBR> just tried an experiment (with astra showing s5) I was able to get a green decode with no antenna attached
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[15:10] <Jess--M0VBR> but only one green out of around 50 red
[15:10] <fsphil> what radio?
[15:10] <Jess--M0VBR> fcd pro+
[15:10] <Herman-PB0AHX> bearing from me to balon is 284.5 an 2 deg elevation
[15:10] <fsphil> odd
[15:10] <Herman-PB0AHX> i have only green lines
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[15:11] <Herman-PB0AHX> radio is icom 910H
[15:11] <PE2G> Solid rx of ASTRA at 446 km
[15:11] <GMT> if it does land where predicted the chase team could all pile into G6GZHs for tea
[15:12] <Herman-PB0AHX> pe2g nice distance
[15:13] <PE2G> Herman-PB0AHX: Yes, also thanks to good signal and quiet band at 075
[15:13] <Jess--M0VBR> 60km from me + or -
[15:14] <Herman-PB0AHX> pe2g no here the band sometimes splash from data
[15:15] <Babs_> Afternoon all - what happened to HABELAB in the end? Did it get recovered/
[15:15] <Babs_> ?
[15:15] <PE2G> Herman-PB0AHX: 650 completely unusable here caused by wideband noise
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[15:16] <Herman-PB0AHX> here also s6 qrm on 650
[15:16] <G4MYS_Andy> Babs data was lost from it about 0100local about 3 mile inland at 1000M asume lost at sea till we know better
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[15:17] <Herman-PB0AHX> i was also on my bed babs i dont know it
[15:19] <Babs_> Thanks G4MYS_Andy and Herman-PB0AHX - I booted up my laptop this morning and saw last signal at 0100 but I didnt know whether or not i was just getting an old page
[15:20] <G4MYS_Andy> no Babs that was where it was lost to the trackers
[15:20] <fsphil> lost at sea
[15:20] <Jess--M0VBR> that 300 baud really shows up the gps margin of error
[15:21] <Babs_> hmmm. might have been lucky but I guess it was a pretty slow descent rate.
[15:21] <G5SGX-iain> I think it probably made it tom the ocean, luckily, as it was full of H2
[15:21] <fsphil> I think he used He for this one
[15:21] <fsphil> for exactly this reason
[15:21] <G5SGX-iain> he he. just fopund this, anyone we know? http://www.burnham-on-sea.com/news/2013/weather-balloon-23-02-13.php
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[15:21] <fsphil> I'm tempted to give it a go myself
[15:22] <Babs_> are you sure it wasn't going over birmingham? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23128982
[15:22] <fsphil> G5SGX-iain: that's a shame. they must not have run a prediction
[15:22] <fsphil> or did and ignored it
[15:23] <Babs_> fsphil - want to see something funky (and not to do with an amiga this time?)
[15:23] <fsphil> I'm curious now
[15:24] <Babs_> http://www.opensourcerf.com/rfd21815-wireless-inventors-shield-for-arduino.html
[15:24] <Babs_> bluetooth/wireless/whatever you get with no wires, but without pairing/logging in faffage
[15:25] <Babs_> just uses the standard uart or software serial ports
[15:25] <fsphil> immune to noise is a bold claim
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[15:25] <Babs_> I've ordered a couple. Will play Ace of Spades loudly next to it and see whether the claim holds up.
[15:25] Action: mfa298 wonders if there are enough chase cars (assuming they're all for this balloon)
[15:26] <Jess--M0VBR> car manufacturers think the same with their keyfobs until someone fires up a hab tracker nearby
[15:26] <fsphil> that's quite a bit of noise
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[15:26] <G5SGX-iain> Or an amateur puts 400W out and calls CQ on its frequency!
[15:27] <fsphil> astra1's signal is not really getting much stronger here
[15:27] <mfa298> long range .... up to 500ft, should we tell them about our short range links ?
[15:27] <fsphil> hah
[15:27] <fsphil> to be fair, they run slightly faster than our links
[15:27] <Babs_> i was looking for a solution for Stabilotron where I can have a freely rotating camera around 3 axes at the bottom of a payload communicating with another arduino with a gps at the top of the payload sharing the workload
[15:27] <Babs_> "its a long shot but it just might work"
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[15:28] <fsphil> you could use a couple of rfm22b's
[15:28] <Babs_> plus the likelihood of any noise (Motorhead, car key fob or otherwise) at 100,000ft is pretty unlikely.
[15:28] <eroomde> someone might be doing EME
[15:29] <eroomde> if you're unlucky
[15:29] <fsphil> you may have a 434mhz transmitter right next to it
[15:29] <G5SGX-iain> g6gzh has switched on
[15:29] <HixWork> Babs_, Can you get Stabilotron to broadcast Ace of Spades over RTTY please :)
[15:29] <db_g6gzh> been working too hard - only just noticed there's ballons heading right at me!
[15:29] <HixWork> preferably not at 50 baud though
[15:30] <GMT> db_g6gzh: and if it lands as predicted they're all coming to your place for a cuppa!
[15:30] <WILLdude> Hi
[15:30] <db_g6gzh> they're welcome. who is it?
[15:30] <Babs_> HixWork - it has to be possible. like those dudes who do it with spinning up hard drives (or if you are the CIA, with Iranian centrifuges)
[15:31] <Babs_> eroomde - what is EME?
[15:31] <G5SGX-iain> What I learnt from the tracking last night, get a chase car siorted
[15:32] <Babs_> Don't even think about coming near stabilotron with your snazzy air breather rocket engine
[15:32] Action: HixWork heads over to youtube for a fix of motorhead
[15:32] <GMT> db_g6gzh: there's 3 chase vehicles on the screen - assume the worst; maybe they're all transit vans full of screaming kids (think: St Trinians)
[15:32] <eroomde> Babs_: earth-moon-earth comms
[15:32] <Babs_> given the weight of BABSHAB there is only going to be one winner
[15:32] <eroomde> people talk on higher freqs using the moon as a relector
[15:32] <HixWork> mooning at the earth
[15:32] <eroomde> it involves a lot of power and a lot of gain
[15:32] <Jess--M0VBR> db_g6gzh: that's it... now I've got the music stuck in my head for the rest of the night
[15:32] <Babs_> eroomde - can you use EME if you have a low voice as well?
[15:33] <G5SGX-iain> Not aso much power needed on EME now wth new data modes
[15:33] <Babs_> (that was my first radio based gag since my foundation exam pass - you need to give me a bit of latitude)
[15:33] <G4MYS_Andy> Babs the EME path is too lossy for SSB CW is best used
[15:33] <HixWork> 52.56788
[15:33] <HixWork> there you go Babs_
[15:34] <G5SGX-iain> Most use the JT modes now, can do it on less than 100W
[15:34] <Babs_> HixWork - was that a useful number or have you left the top off the tipp-ex again and fallen asleep on your keyboard?
[15:35] <benoxley> Is the predicted landingh still roughly 5km NW of G6GZH?
[15:35] <HixWork> you asked for some latitude didnt you ;p
[15:36] <HixWork> Tipp-ex would require me to do something wrong at work. Doing nothing erradicates any mistakes
[15:36] <db_g6gzh> last weekend I was at a camp site on the cliff top at Happisburgh, a good location to have tracked HABLAB if it had been a week earlier and I actually had a tracking setup in the Land Rover 8-)
[15:36] <craag> benoxley: About 2km N now.
[15:37] <HixWork> I've been looking into a WWAN card for my thinkpad, specifically for tracking. Bonus side is the unit has built in GPS too :)
[15:37] <HixWork> memory map and 3G ftw
[15:37] <benoxley> thanks craag
[15:37] <fsphil> still not quite getting astra
[15:37] <benoxley> coming up on march atm
[15:37] <m3eav> decoding astra now
[15:37] <craag> benoxley: Go into March, out E of it, and head for Christchurch.
[15:38] <m3eav> bu tonly JUST
[15:38] <G5SGX-iain> db_g6gzh: We use that bit of coast at Trimingham for our VHF contest site. Get good coverage on 70cms.
[15:38] <fsphil> I had thought all the recent flights where a bit weaker than usual. I'm wondering if it's my setup now
[15:38] <fsphil> or the weather
[15:39] <GMT> not so Phil, the sigs from the weekend were terrible, but ASTRA is the usual strength
[15:41] <G4MYS_Andy> its that time of year when the RF does funny things like reflect! and bounce about a bit !
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[15:42] <WILLdude> hello.
[15:42] <GMT> hello
[15:42] <benoxley> woo 30k
[15:43] <m3eav> christ what a terrible reception
[15:43] <PE2G> 650 has finally gone quiet here, decoding POP now
[15:43] <m3eav> atr 30k meters
[15:43] <benoxley> db_g6gzh: fancy coming to the recovery?
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[15:44] <fsphil> getting closer to decoding, which means it's probably about to burst :)
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[15:45] <Jess--M0VBR> probably fsphil , I think they are above predicted burst now
[15:46] <fsphil> well 30km was a guess
[15:46] <fsphil> benoxley: know what the aim is?
[15:47] <mfa298> gps issue on pop - seems its not gone above 30km on spacenear.us
[15:47] <G4MYS_Andy> pop1 maintauning 30488
[15:48] <db_g6gzh> benoxley: could do. Are you M6TWO_chase?
[15:48] <benoxley> yes
[15:48] <Jess--M0VBR> astra is at 32876
[15:48] <G4MYS_Andy> 30488 is the data to me from ballon perhaps its stuck?
[15:49] <GMT> sigs from astra very weak now
[15:49] <GMT> not getting a decode
[15:49] <Laurence2> wtf with pop1?
[15:49] <Laurence2> gps limit?
[15:49] <mfa298> I suspect that 30488 is either a gps issue or software bug - although odd point to stop working
[15:49] number10 (56aca2b9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.172.162.185) joined #highaltitude.
[15:49] <GMT> are the two payloads under 1 balloon?
[15:49] <G4MYS_Andy> getting lots of reds
[15:50] <Laurence2> Temperature, External: 85.0 °C
[15:50] <db_g6gzh> the position is stuck too
[15:50] <Laurence2> hmm
[15:50] <mfa298> position hasn't updated for pop either
[15:50] <G5SGX-iain> astra at 33517
[15:50] <G4MYS_Andy> external 85 is fault default
[15:50] <Jess--M0VBR> could Unknown 2 be sats on pop?
[15:50] <Laurence2> heh "Crowland"
[15:50] Nick change: number10 -> number10_M0MDB
[15:50] <GMT> what's wrong with 'Crowland'?
[15:51] <fsphil> astra1 quite strong here, but still not quite enough to decode
[15:51] <benoxley> it maintains last known gps position
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[15:52] <G4MYS_Andy> think pop 1 has fault on GPS feed qth not changing on data coming in
[15:52] <GMT> benoxley: 1 or 2 balloons?
[15:53] <G4MYS_Andy> 2 note the differnt heights up to 100m differnt
[15:53] <fsphil> gps variations
[15:53] <benoxley> 1 balloon
[15:53] <Lunar_LanderU> POP floating?
[15:53] <fsphil> Lunar_LanderU: no gps lock
[15:54] <Lunar_LanderU> oh ok
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[15:54] <fsphil> there's an interesting bump in the altitude graph just before it stopped
[15:54] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[15:54] <fsphil> possibly something got shaken loose
[15:54] <benoxley> almost at christchurch
[15:55] <Jess--M0VBR> same bump on astras graph
[15:55] <craag> benoxley: Prediction is now for March
[15:55] <craag> :P
[15:55] <fsphil> long flight?
[15:55] <fsphil> woo, decode
[15:55] <fsphil> 522km
[15:55] <G4MYS_Andy> looks like it will be up there forever!
[15:56] <benoxley> craag: back we go :P
[15:56] <m3eav> ncie oine fsphil
[15:56] <craag> benoxley: Prediction moving around a lot, maybe stop til burst.
[15:56] <PE2G> fsphil: Nice dx.
[15:56] <m3eav> 306 here...thourhg a wall and roof:-)
[15:56] <G4MYS_Andy> note too time has stoped on POP1
[15:57] <mfa298> benoxley: any idea what burst alt should be ?
[15:58] <fsphil> 37km
[15:58] <fsphil> this is a good altitude
[15:58] <m3eav> FINALLY got a POP decode
[15:59] <benoxley> parked up with mat atm
[15:59] <mikestir> I wish I'd left the habamp and yagi connected at home this morning. I can just about hear pop on the html5 sdr I'm working on
[15:59] <fsphil> burst
[15:59] <Jess--M0VBR> 37679
[15:59] <m3eav> yeah pop popped
[16:00] <G4MYS_Andy> how youn know POP has burst its my guess as lots of reds but the data is not being uodated!
[16:01] <m3eav> lol landin gin ANTWERP !!
[16:01] <fsphil> astra1 and pop are on the same balloon
[16:01] <fsphil> and astra1 is falling fast :)
[16:01] <GMT> well, ASTRA has burst, and there's only 1 balloon ...
[16:01] <G4MYS_Andy> sure?
[16:01] <fsphil> 100%
[16:01] <fsphil> the prediction will become sensible shortly
[16:02] <G4MYS_Andy> OK I conceed to your knowledge good job too!
[16:02] <fsphil> two separate balloons wouldn't stay that close during a flight
[16:02] <fsphil> unless they where attached somehow
[16:03] <WILLdude> Afternoon
[16:03] <mfa298> unless you're daveake and Darkside - although even those had some seperation.
[16:03] <fsphil> howdy will
[16:03] <fsphil> yea that was cool
[16:04] <fsphil> there we go, better prediction
[16:04] <LazyLeopard> Brief excursion into extreme whackiness there...
[16:06] <WILLdude> urgh. Need to comment on the RTTY code.
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[16:06] <GMT> go ahead WILLdude, the floor is all your ...
[16:06] <Lunar_LanderU> RocketBoy: congratulations on your flight again
[16:06] <RocketBoy> ta Lunar_LanderU
[16:07] <fsphil> it averages the last few vertical rates, so after burst they sometimes cancel eachother out a bit
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[16:09] <benoxley> waiting for the thrid chase car to arrive and we'll head for march
[16:09] <benoxley> sorry for weird questions, minutes lag on essage
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[16:11] <WILLdude> Anyone considered using this on a flight? http://radiometrixstore.com/wfx2.html
[16:11] <G4MYS_Andy> has everyone gone to dinner? only 1 tracker on Astra!
[16:12] <LazyLeopard> Its signal's a bit rubbish at the moment...
[16:12] <mfa298> WILLdude: wouldn't be legal in the UK for airborne
[16:12] <GMT> sigs poor from ASTRA until it stabilises
[16:13] <LazyLeopard> ...assuming its antenna hasn't been mangled in the tumble, or something.
[16:13] <WILLdude> Is the NTX2 at 458.7MHZ illegal in the UK?
[16:13] <G5SGX-iain> Its taken a while, hasnt stabalised yet..
[16:13] <G4MYS_Andy> OK thats inteesting as I am getting lots of greens from POP1 but no updates!
[16:13] <RocketBoy> you may only use 10mw airborne in the 458MHz band in the UK
[16:13] <G5SGX-iain> oh here uit comes
[16:13] <WILLdude> radiometrix is now slightly cheaper than Upu.
[16:13] <mfa298> WILLdude: 458 isn't allowed airborne in the UK. it might be ok on the ground - can't remember off hand and may not be allowed at 500mW
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[16:14] <G4MYS_Andy> and many aerials will be out of band thus out of gain on that freq
[16:14] <Upu> WILLdude no I'm the same price but you need to come and speak to me first subtle hint
[16:15] <number10_M0MDB> Upu: bits arived today thanks
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[16:15] <WILLdude> What do you mean? Talk to you if I see it cheaper elsewhere?
[16:15] <Upu> nps
[16:15] <Upu> no will when you want one you come speak to me
[16:16] <WILLdude> You gave me one :)
[16:16] <WILLdude> Oh radiometrix didn't include vat.
[16:17] <G5SGX-iain> I often think a streetview option would be good on the spacenear map
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[16:17] <RocketBoy> talk to upu - you will learn something to your advantage
[16:20] <WILLdude> Upu: What are the advantages of the LMT2?
[16:21] <RocketBoy> its very stable
[16:22] <RocketBoy> tempreture wise
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[16:22] <RocketBoy> and multi channel
[16:22] <Lunar_LanderU> my professor had a question we wanted to investigate
[16:23] <RocketBoy> A: 42
[16:23] <WILLdude> I found someone at school who might be interested in doing a HAB project with me.
[16:23] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[16:23] <GMT> isnt there also a Radiometrix doodah at 169 mhz, is that the same deal (ie, not airborne) as the 458 mhz one?
[16:23] <Lunar_LanderU> he thought about if not only the xtal is temperature dependent but also the resistor network
[16:23] <Lunar_LanderU> and to what extent that contributes to the frequency drifte
[16:23] <Lunar_LanderU> -e
[16:23] <mfa298> WILLdude: well done - See we told you to ask around!
[16:23] <RocketBoy> GMT: yep IIRC
[16:24] <RocketBoy> we been through it a few times
[16:24] <GMT> okay, thank, did wonder why nobody used it!
[16:24] <RocketBoy> 434MHz or 868 are the way to go
[16:24] <mfa298> GMT: the best place to look for what can be done airborne is IR2030
[16:24] <WILLdude> mfa298: I've yet to ask my science teacher though.
[16:24] <craag> With 868 the high power is nice, but I tried it and only got one listener :(
[16:24] <mfa298> I think below 434 the next option was around 27MHz
[16:25] <Lunar_LanderU> WILLdude: do ask him, will be an awesome thing to get things kickstarted
[16:25] <WILLdude> It's her, :)
[16:25] <mfa298> WILLdude: with two of you it should also help persaude a teacher.
[16:25] PB0NER_ (53a07f7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.160.127.122) joined #highaltitude.
[16:25] <WILLdude> I gave my friend the details of how to get on to the IRC channel.
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[16:25] <WILLdude> I doubt he will. :)
[16:26] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[16:26] <Lunar_LanderU> here in germany we had a flight with a 2.4 GHz video downlink
[16:27] <Lunar_LanderU> and at the HF lab they made their own parabolic dishes for receiving that
[16:27] <Laurence2> any chase car?
[16:28] <PB0NER> or 5.8Ghz?
[16:28] <GMT> 3 chase car, I think
[16:28] <craag> Laurence2: Yep several, but chase car trackers aren't working too great.
[16:28] <Lunar_LanderU> 5.8 GHz is another WLAN frequency right?
[16:28] <WILLdude> 2,4-GHz-Wow. Ich wundere mich über wifi, wenn 2,4 GHz möglich.
[16:28] <Laurence2> need to get to Benwick
[16:29] <PB0NER> yes and no.... I think there is an ISM part, there is an amateur band we use for video and you can buy 5,8Ghz video links
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[16:29] <PB0NER> and telem modems
[16:29] <WILLdude> Sind Sie Deutsch Lunar Lander?
[16:30] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[16:30] <PB0NER> Guten Tag..
[16:30] <Lunar_LanderU> hallo
[16:30] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[16:30] <WILLdude> Was ist Ihre Meinung zu dem Krieg?
[16:30] <Lunar_LanderU> nicht gut
[16:30] <PB0NER> ich hab mal ein Jahr in Deutschland gearbeitet
[16:31] <Lunar_LanderU> cool
[16:31] <PB0NER> yeah sure, in a liitle hole in the ground called Niederlehme
[16:31] <WILLdude> Haben die Deutschen haben Gedenkfeiern für die Soldaten in dem Krieg gegeben, dass Deutschland nicht mehr unter der Naziherrschaft?
[16:32] schoppenhauer (~quassel@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer) left irc: Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.
[16:32] <Lunar_LanderU> no, we damn the war and everything about the nazis nowadays
[16:33] <WILLdude> Ich weiß nicht unhöflich sein, ich bin nur interessiert.
[16:33] <Laurence2> lol
[16:33] <Laurence2> godWIN
[16:33] <WILLdude> Lunar_LanderU: Really? Are there many surviving SS soldiers?
[16:33] <Lunar_LanderU> no
[16:34] <Lunar_LanderU> and any which are found are tried
[16:34] <PB0NER> I have seen Germany slowly getting rid of the WWII trauma over the years, everybody responsible for organizing is dead or very, very old
[16:35] <WILLdude> Hat Deutschland haben Wehrpflicht?
[16:36] <PB0NER> seems like Google translate....:)
[16:36] <WILLdude> Es ist.
[16:36] <Laurence2> come on chase car
[16:36] <Laurence2> hurry up
[16:36] <Laurence2> less godwin more chase car
[16:37] <Laurence2> thats what i want
[16:37] <PB0NER> anybody knows what happend to our floating friend?
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[16:37] <RocketBoy> in the sea
[16:37] <RocketBoy> my guest guess
[16:37] <PB0NER> last position looked like that
[16:37] <RocketBoy> - as out at sea 800m up
[16:37] <RocketBoy> was
[16:37] <RocketBoy> and heading east
[16:38] <PB0NER> yeah... I was amazed by that
[16:38] <RocketBoy> Ive told the cost guard
[16:38] <number10_M0MDB> was a good flight RocketBoy
[16:38] <RocketBoy> - you never know
[16:38] <RocketBoy> yes was v interesting
[16:38] <Lunar_LanderU> WILLdude: no, was abolished in 2011
[16:38] <PB0NER> if it will float or blow?
[16:38] <Lunar_LanderU> will it blend?
[16:38] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[16:39] <RocketBoy> well i suspect the balloon is up on aline above the sea
[16:39] <RocketBoy> so it will go with the wimd
[16:39] <RocketBoy> wind
[16:39] <PB0NER> I received some POP packets..... but no greens
[16:39] <PB0NER> picket it up a little late
[16:39] <RocketBoy> the tide was going out as well
[16:39] <PB0NER> picket=picked
[16:40] <RocketBoy> when it lnded
[16:40] <RocketBoy> landed
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[16:40] <RocketBoy> so suspect its several km out by now
[16:41] <RocketBoy> heading E or SE
[16:41] <PB0NER> I'm drilling holes for my homebrew 2,35Ghz TX
[16:41] <GMT> if that landing prediction for ASTRA is good, right next to the road
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[16:42] <db_g6gzh> well that signal went very quickly
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[16:46] <Herman-PB0AHX> ok boy's i go to eating someting a lot of grren pakkets today i am happy
[16:47] <db_g6gzh> hopefully it missed the drain
[16:50] <HixWork> quick Q: if I have dl-fldigi and an onboard GPS on the laptop can it update the location on the fly?
[16:50] <HixWork> for chasing
[16:50] <chrisstubbs> HixWork seems not to work properly in windows
[16:50] <chrisstubbs> I could never get it to work at least
[16:50] <db_g6gzh> supposedly, though someone was saying it's broken on windows
[16:51] <db_g6gzh> (whatever that is)
[16:53] <HixWork> hmm, I'm not tethered to Win
[16:53] <HixWork> bugger - memory map is
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[16:56] <mfa298> when I've tried it the gps has worked on linux but not windows (and a few other people have said about it not working on windows)
[16:56] <mfa298> HixWork: do you have enough ram to run linux and put memory map in a VM
[16:56] <mfa298> or even try it with wine
[16:57] <WILLdude> Urgh. Commenting the code is scary.
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[16:57] <WILLdude> Can I do a join.me session on it so people can help me?
[16:57] <mfa298> WILLdude: if you want to get good at writing code being able to read other peoples code and understand it is a vital skill
[16:58] <WILLdude> And I'm trying to.
[16:58] <HixWork> mfa298, wine - good shout
[16:58] <HixWork> its the SSD that limits things when it comes to the VM
[16:58] <eroomde> trying everything with wine often improces things
[16:58] <eroomde> improves*
[16:58] <HixWork> heh
[16:58] <HixWork> proof of theory there eh eroomde ;p
[16:59] <WILLdude> https://join.me/740-739-317
[16:59] <eroomde> i've a lot of experimental data
[17:00] <WILLdude> Who is the first viewer?
[17:02] <GMT> gn all, see you for the next launch
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[17:02] <mfa298> WILLdude: rather than looking at the whole thing in detail break it into chunks, Either look at it at a high level and understand what calls what and what the aim is (maybe draw it as a set of interconnected boxes).
[17:03] <mfa298> alternativly look at one function in detail and understand what its doing
[17:05] <WILLdude> You viewer 2 mfa?
[17:05] <Steffanx> WILLdude, you really trust me controlling your pc? :)
[17:05] <WILLdude> Kinda.
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[17:06] <Steffanx> Good
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[17:09] <WILLdude> Right. I kinda get this now.
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[17:11] <WILLdude> Now how do I iterate through a sentence?
[17:13] <WILLdude> Wait.
[17:13] <WILLdude> I need to store the sentence first.
[17:14] <WILLdude> What's a conflicting declaration?
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[17:15] <WILLdude> WTF? Invalid conversion from 'const char*' to 'char'
[17:15] <Upu_M0UPU> what happened to POP
[17:15] <Upu_M0UPU> ?
[17:16] <WILLdude> It popped. Presumably.
[17:16] <craag> Lost GPS lock, never got it back.
[17:16] <WILLdude> Why does char datastring="RTTY" produce the error invalid conversion from 'const char*' to 'char'
[17:17] <WILLdude> I need an arduino with python.
[17:17] <Upu_M0UPU> bummer
[17:17] <craag> On the same flight as ASTRA though, so should be recovered.
[17:18] <mfa298> if your like of code is char datastring="RTTY" you're allocating space for one character then trying to store 5 chars in it.
[17:18] <mfa298> you need an array of characters and it needs to be big enough for the string your putting in it.
[17:20] <WILLdude> I really need an arduino that can do python.
[17:20] <mfa298> or just learn how C works.
[17:21] <craag> Basically C tells the computer exactly what to do with every bit of memory.
[17:22] <craag> Python tries to work that out for you, and so needs 10x the computing power, therefore 10x the electrical power, and sometimes gets it wrong (particularly when it comes to timing).
[17:23] <WILLdude> Now how do I iterate through this array of chars?
[17:23] <mfa298> by knowing what's happening with your code and how it uses memory allows you to do some really clever things as well.
[17:23] <mfa298> usually use a for loop
[17:24] <S_Mark> WILLdude: http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/String
[17:24] <bertrik> perhaps you can strtok it on comma's
[17:24] <griffonbot> Received email: Leo Bodnar "[UKHAS] Balloon launch: Tue, 2 July 2013, 15:00 UTC (16:00 local UK time)"
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[17:25] <mfa298> you can use strlen to get the length of the data in the string (NOTE that it's not the length of the space you've allocated for the string which will hopefully be longer than the data)
[17:27] <WILLdude> Right so how do I do a for loop?
[17:27] <mfa298> first declare the for loop (from the bits above you should know all you need to know for that)
[17:29] <WILLdude> So for(datastring){ ?
[17:32] <mfa298> lookup how a for loop is defined.
[17:33] <mfa298> Hint there's an example in the link S_Mark gave 10 mins ago
[17:35] <WILLdude> Ooh
[17:35] <WILLdude> I've got it to split up the datastring.
[17:35] <WILLdude> And tx it over serial.
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[17:37] <WILLdude> http://pastie.org/8100612
[17:37] <WILLdude> So what do I need to do inside that loop?
[17:37] <daveake> WILLdude K&R is your friend. Failing that, Google.
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[17:39] <WILLdude> Yeah I've got the loop working.
[17:39] <mfa298> what you do inside that loop depends on what you want to acheive
[17:40] <WILLdude> For now, I want it to call up the binary values of each character, and tx them.
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[17:40] <mfa298> it might be worth trying to understand what the different bits in the for (int x=0; x<5; x++) is doing
[17:41] <WILLdude> Initialzing x, if x is smaller than five, add 1 to x, and then run this code?
[17:41] <WILLdude> Right?
[17:42] <mfa298> pretty much
[17:42] <fsphil> nearly
[17:42] <fsphil> the last part only runs when the loop, er.. loops
[17:42] <fsphil> so on the first loop x will be 0
[17:42] <S_Mark> WILLdude there is a lot of example code out there that does this, even on the ukhas wiki. Have you searched through that yet? Sometimes the best way to learn things is to look at existing examples and then break them down so you understand what each bit is doing. Learning from the ground up is sometimes a lot harder especially if it is new concepts
[17:42] <fsphil> also declaring a variable in a for() loop like that is C++
[17:42] <fsphil> that won't work in C
[17:43] <mfa298> next you might want to consider how you'de change that loop to cope with strings of other lengths
[17:44] <WILLdude> Change 5 to something else.
[17:44] <mfa298> what might you change the 5 to ?
[17:45] <WILLdude> Well, you'd change it to the legnth of whatever string you are txing.
[17:46] <WILLdude> Remembering to count the first character as 0
[17:46] <fsphil> wouldn't it be so much easier if it knew when the string ended :)
[17:46] <mfa298> what if your string length changes each time ?
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[17:46] <fsphil> (hint: C strings always end with a byte == 0x00)
[17:47] <WILLdude> err.
[17:47] <WILLdude> IDK
[17:47] <mfa298> there's actually two answers here. you were given one answer earlier
[17:47] <fsphil> your condition, the middle part of the for() loop, can be any code
[17:47] <fsphil> it doesn't have to compare against the value of x
[17:48] <fsphil> it will happly loop until that condition becomes false
[17:48] <fsphil> you could put a true in there and it would loop forever
[17:48] <WILLdude> for(int x=0;x<sizeof(datastring);x++)
[17:50] <mfa298> thats close to one answer
[17:50] <fsphil> there is a function to find the length of a string
[17:50] <fsphil> sizeof() might actually work in some conditions
[17:51] <WILLdude> Right, that works.
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[17:52] <WILLdude> Now I need to find the binary value of datastring[x] somehow.
[17:52] <mfa298> I suspect sizeof will retudn 1 or 4 always in this case
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[17:55] <WILLdude> Why?
[17:56] <fsphil> it depends
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[17:56] <fsphil> sizeof returns the length of a datatype
[17:56] <mfa298> 1 being the length of a character or 4 (possibly) being the length of a pointer. It might work for a string on an arduino
[17:56] <fsphil> sizeof(uint32_t) would be 4, as it's 4 bytes
[17:57] <WILLdude> Using strlen now.
[17:57] <fsphil> sizeof() on a const string may actually work
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[17:58] <fsphil> but it's a silly way of doing it
[18:00] Nick change: Laurence2 -> Laurenceb_
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[18:07] Nick change: Upu -> UpuWork
[18:07] Nick change: Upu_M0UPU -> Upu
[18:07] <jcoxon> fsphil, got my uv-5r
[18:07] <jcoxon> hooray
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[18:10] <fsphil> phew!
[18:10] <RocketBoy> my fave bit of c is:- #define SIZE(x) sizeof(x)/sizeof(*x) - gives you the number of elements in an array - irrespective of the size of the element
[18:10] <fsphil> they redelivered it?
[18:11] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:11] <jcoxon> due to my fake redelivery request
[18:11] <fsphil> hah
[18:11] <fsphil> cunning
[18:12] <jcoxon> made up the details
[18:12] <fsphil> so there's a rubbish postman/woman out there not leaving cards
[18:13] <fsphil> any ISS passes tonight?
[18:13] <WILLdude> Aah
[18:13] <jcoxon> no
[18:13] <jcoxon> sadly not
[18:13] <jcoxon> they are afternoon passes
[18:13] <jcoxon> which i will miss this week
[18:13] <fsphil> there's a low one about to start now
[18:13] <jcoxon> but then its probably worth me reconstructing my setup first
[18:13] <fsphil> true
[18:13] <jcoxon> its about 2deg
[18:14] <WILLdude> This is the life. A copy of WIRED (good) US WIRED (better) and MIT Technology Review (better still), and an hour spare to read them.
[18:14] <jcoxon> will warn when i attempt again
[18:15] <Maxell> costyn: i also got intresting screenshots
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[18:19] <Seejjay> Hi, been lurking for a week or so and I have purchased a FunCube Pro+ with the object of tracking balloon flights (admire the effort that goes in and am interested in helping out). I am looking for advice on a good antenna to go with this to do the tracking. Anyone got any suggestions? TIA
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[18:19] <WILLdude> Hmm. Budget?
[18:19] <mfa298> Seejjay: if you want to spend money some form of dual band colinear is the usual
[18:20] <mfa298> for cheaper options you can make various things fairly cheaply
[18:21] <Seejjay> I saw the co-linear as an option and is not 'out there' budget wise. Been a long time since I did any radio stuff!!
[18:21] <mfa298> you'll also want to invest in some decent coax. RG213 is a reasonable choice
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[18:22] <Seejjay> What I want to get is something that gives results over saving money.
[18:22] <Seejjay> mfa298 - understand the the choice of Co-ax is important
[18:23] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:23] <mfa298> location and height help a lot with getting good results
[18:24] <craag> My suggestion: Buy a house like Upu's!
[18:24] <daveake> Something like a Watson W-50, as high as you can practically get it, then RG213 down to your FCD
[18:24] <daveake> That's a good setup and not expensive
[18:25] <Seejjay> I am down in Basingstoke and unfortunately I have slightly higher ground (well trees) to the North
[18:25] <craag> A lot of Basingstoke hab people now...
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[18:25] <Seejjay> :lol OK, I give in, what is UPU's houde??
[18:26] <mfa298> Basingstoke seems to be a popular place these days
[18:26] <craag> Why were none of you around when I was dropping picos on your heads?
[18:26] <WILLdude> Seejjay: I'm in Basingstoke too.
[18:26] <craag> Seejjay: He's a guy who lives up north, on a hill, and does very well with balloon receiving!
[18:27] <craag> I was joking, go with daveake's advice.
[18:27] <WILLdude> haha
[18:27] <WILLdude> Best quote on a rum advert. " If we have to die, so then we die"
[18:29] <Seejjay> craag - I understand about UPUs house - daveahe's advice is definitely cheaper!!
[18:29] <Seejjay> Willdude - There might be a balloon launch here early August - if conditions are right for some guys I know.
[18:29] <WILLdude> Ooh
[18:29] <WILLdude> probably can't go.
[18:30] <Seejjay> Oops daveahe = daveaka - can't get used to this new keyboard!
[18:32] <Seejjay> I am hoping to get things set up by then so they have a local static 'tracking point'
[18:32] <Seejjay> Bought the FubCube because it is in budget and seemed to get good reviews, my piece of wire gets some results, but not as good as I hoped
[18:33] <WILLdude> Right where to go from here http://pastie.org/8100773
[18:33] <mfa298> Seejjay: I mostly use a Funcube Pro+ for tracking now as it's very similar performance as my other radios
[18:35] <mfa298> the real key is getting the antenna as high as possible
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[18:39] <mfa298> WILLdude: that looks good, what do you want it to do next ?
[18:39] <WILLdude> Je ne sais pas.
[18:40] <Seejjay> mfa298: Thanks for that input - backs up what I have read.
[18:40] <Seejjay> Might go for a mobile station on top of the hill where the launch is
[18:40] <Seejjay> (Is there an etiquette for a mobile tracking?)
[18:42] <mfa298> if you're mobile in a car a magmount antenna works fairly well
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[18:45] <Seejjay> I am an organiser of the event they are launching from and so tied to the field :lol
[18:45] <Seejjay> I would be able to mount the antenna on a pole with no problem.
[18:45] <Seejjay> but magmount sounds fine for mobile - any recommendations there?
[18:46] <WILLdude> mfa298: Convert each character to binary, make a string that goes like 0010010100101110, and iterate through that to tx it.
[18:47] <mfa298> Seejjay: most people have some sort of dual band magmount designed for amateur radio they'll usually be advertised as 2/70 or 2m/70cm the 70cm part is the band your interested in
[18:47] Nick change: MichaelC1 -> MichaelC
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[18:48] <mfa298> I think this is one some people have used http://cpc.farnell.com/watson/wsm-270/wsm-270-mini-mag-antenna/dp/IT44456?in_merch=Products%20From%20This%20Range
[18:48] <Seejjay> OK, seen a few of those.
[18:48] <Seejjay> BTW enjoying the programming as well
[18:48] <Seejjay> I will bow out now and let you concentrate on that.
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[18:48] <Seejjay> Thank you for the help!!
[18:49] <mfa298> Seejjay: feel free to ask questions any time, there are plenty of knowledgeable people in here
[18:49] <WILLdude> mfa298: Is that correct?
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[18:49] Action: WILLdude points to everyone else.
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[18:50] Action: arko looks around shifty eyed
[18:50] <WILLdude> Will this work with the W-2000 and maybe the W-50? http://www.aerialsuperstore.co.uk/aluminium-aerial-mast-measuring-6-x-1-diameter-518-p.asp
[18:51] <mfa298> WILLdude: you shouldn't need to make a string of the binary
[18:51] <mfa298> you might need to copy the current character and then you can itterate through that for each bit
[18:51] <mfa298> you might want to look at left shifting and right shifting and binary comparison
[18:52] <daveake> this ^^
[18:52] <WILLdude> How can I get the bits of the current character?
[18:52] <daveake> The character IS the binary
[18:53] <daveake> And you can use ...
[18:53] <daveake> if (somecharacter & 1) ...
[18:53] <mfa298> WILLdude: that pole is only 6ft (1.8m) and probably not wide enough to have enough strength
[18:53] <daveake> to see if the bottom bit is set
[18:53] <WILLdude> I don't need a long one.
[18:53] <daveake> or .... if (character & 0x80) for the high bit
[18:54] <WILLdude> mfa298: Can you suggest one.
[18:54] <mfa298> WILLdude: if it's to mount to the side of the house then you probably want something a bit wide 1.5inch or two inch
[18:55] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude, http://www.screwfix.com/p/labgear-29924lab-3m-aerial-mast/32094
[18:55] <chrisstubbs> and 1 or 2 http://www.screwfix.com/p/labgear-tv-aerial-stand-off-bracket-9/90874
[18:55] <chrisstubbs> 2 would be your best bet
[18:56] <mfa298> WILLdude: if you're getting someone to mount the antenna then chances are they can supply a suitable mast for it
[18:56] <mfa298> or they'll have somewhere they can recommend
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[18:58] <mfa298> if you get to small a diameter mast it will probably be fine most of the time but fail in strong winds
[18:58] <WILLdude> Well this doesn't work http://pastie.org/8100829
[18:58] <WILLdude> It keeps the pin low.
[18:59] <mfa298> for a bitwise and that will only be looking at one bit
[19:00] <WILLdude> I don't understand.
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[19:00] <WILLdude> A logical shift?
[19:00] <mfa298> datastring[x] is a character (8 bits)
[19:00] <WILLdude> So it moves the foremost bit into a function then discards it?
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[19:01] <WILLdude> So how do I iterate through those 8 bits?
[19:01] <mfa298> WILLdude: try looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operations_in_C
[19:01] <daveake> a for loop
[19:02] <daveake> Also, remember you need to do the start and stop bits as well as your data bits
[19:03] <WILLdude> Right.
[19:03] <WILLdude> Databits first/
[19:03] <mfa298> you might also find an ASCII lookup chart useful - especially if it has hex values as well (Hex - binary is easy to do in your head or on paper)
[19:04] <WILLdude> Urgh. This is complicated.
[19:04] <mfa298> e.g. R is 82 decimal or 52 in hex so the binary is 0101 0010
[19:05] <WILLdude> Rigth
[19:05] <daveake> Read it up. It'll click. It's not complicated.
[19:06] <daveake> And after that look at how data is sent serially with start and stop bits
[19:06] <WILLdude> When you iterate with bitwise operations, where does the bit "go?"
[19:06] <daveake> You test the bit using "&" like I said earlier
[19:07] <mfa298> read the bit on that wiki page about left shift and right shift
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> btw can you like have several dollar signs at the start of the string to make AFC's life easier?
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> like five or so
[19:08] <daveake> yes
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> ok thanks
[19:08] <daveake> $ may not be the best character to use but it works
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> ok
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[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> we once had that a chain of U is like an almost uniform signal, if I remember correctly
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[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> btw, I had my payload in the fridge overnight, in a plastic bag
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/a/3/z/5yvabp-ksq9ar-r1xu/TemperatureComparison.png
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> have a look at the temperature readings
[19:11] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, fridge or freezer?
[19:11] <WILLdude> expected primary-expression before ')' token ?
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> freezer part of a fridge
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> WILLdude, you probably missed out a ; at the line before that error
[19:12] <chrisstubbs> Ah okay, was going to ask if your beers came out solid
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:12] <WILLdude> http://pastie.org/8100864
[19:12] <bertrik> wow, those are huge differences
[19:13] <mikestir> isn't the DS18B20 specced at +/- 1 degree absolute accuracy? that looks pretty bad!
[19:14] <WILLdude> http://pastie.org/8100867
[19:14] <WILLdude> This is sheer hell
[19:14] <bertrik> differences in self-heating between sensors perhaps?
[19:15] <mikestir> willdude: you need variable<<=1 if you want the bitshift equivalent of ++
[19:15] <mikestir> you can't just say variable<<
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[19:16] <mfa298> WILLdude: where did the for(;;datastring[x]<<){ come from ? did you decide to write it like that or did you copy it from somewhere ?
[19:16] <WILLdude> Decided to write it like that.
[19:16] <WILLdude> I was thinking if I shifted through it.
[19:16] <mikestir> you need to count the bits as well
[19:16] <mikestir> so that you know when you're done
[19:16] <mfa298> I think you've created a while(true) loop like that.
[19:18] <WILLdude> http://pastie.org/8100883
[19:19] <WILLdude> Not moving the pin at all.
[19:19] <mfa298> you've still got an infinite loop.
[19:20] <mikestir> Lunar_Lander: I did an analysis of a few temperature sensors a while ago for an environment sensor project. In general they were pretty close. Might be of interest: http://goo.gl/gTuuK
[19:20] <WILLdude> How can I check if datastring[x] has data in it? Would that be the right conditional?
[19:20] <mfa298> the for loop is controled by the middle option, with nothing in there there's not reason for it to stop
[19:21] <mfa298> think about what it is your sending
[19:21] <WILLdude> Uhm
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[19:22] <WILLdude> I'm sending the bit I'm on in datastring[x]
[19:22] <mfa298> and how many bits in datastring[x]
[19:22] <WILLdude> So how do I check that datastring x exists
[19:23] <benoxley> safely recovered :)
[19:23] <WILLdude> I'm confused.
[19:24] <mfa298> start off with what it datastring[x
[19:25] <WILLdude> An array of bits, which makes up a character.
[19:25] <WILLdude> Argh ffs this is damn annoying.
[19:26] <mfa298> close. it's a character that's made up of bits.
[19:26] <mfa298> most stuff in C only goes down to the byte/character level.
[19:26] <mfa298> so the next question is how many bits in a byte.
[19:27] <WILLdude> 8
[19:28] <mfa298> so how many times do you need to shift a bit out of the character to do the bitwise comparison
[19:28] <CHRISG7OGX> is there anything still up to track please?
[19:28] <WILLdude> 8
[19:29] <mfa298> how can you use that knowledge to control your for loop ?
[19:29] <mfa298> CHRISG7OGX: all down now I believe.
[19:30] <WILLdude> by making an integer to track the bits shifted.
[19:30] <CHRISG7OGX> thank you
[19:31] <mfa298> WILLdude: that should work
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[19:32] <WILLdude> This keeps the pin high.
[19:32] <WILLdude> http://pastie.org/8100927
[19:33] <bertrik> the x++ in the inner loop should be removed I think
[19:33] <mfa298> how will bits get over 8 to exit the loop
[19:33] <craag> In case people missed ben's message: POP/ASTRA safely recovered.
[19:33] <daveake> WILLdude you're shifting the wrong way and you don't want that c++
[19:33] <daveake> x
[19:34] <WILLdude> Oh it should be bits++
[19:34] <mfa298> I'm not sure how well it will work having the shift and the increment in there either
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[19:35] <WILLdude> Same as before, pin staying low http://pastie.org/8100942
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> thanks mikestir
[19:37] <WILLdude> Aaargh
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> I am just wondering why the DS18B20 reading is so high
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> the sensor also was in the bag, like the rest of the board
[19:38] <mfa298> WILLdude: I'd probably move the shift operation out of the for statement (choose a suitable place in the loop to put it). I'm not sure that having the third part of the for statement having the shift operation and increment will work.
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> have to look at that
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> question for everyone: is there anything you would need to watch out for flying a Hwoyee balloon?
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[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> IIRC especially the 1600 was resisting to burst sometimes
[19:39] <bertrik> here's an interesting bit about one possible source of errors for the ds18b20: http://www2.buoy.com/pipermail/weather/2005-November/006327.html
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> and that the filling tube is different from Kaymont
[19:39] <Willdude123> Right
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> thanks bertrik
[19:40] <Willdude123> But where do I put the shift operation?
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[19:43] <mfa298> Willdude123: think about when you need to do the shift operation
[19:44] <Willdude123> After a tx?
[19:44] <g0hww> do we have an explanation for the cyclic frequency variations that can be observed on HAB telemetry? do we think this is due to the transmitter;s trajectory spiralling on the way down?
[19:45] <ikarus> g0hww: can you tell me the parameters of the frequency variation ?
[19:45] <ikarus> or better yet
[19:46] <g0hww> well, no
[19:46] <ikarus> a dataset
[19:46] <g0hww> i'll see what i can acquire next time
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> so Hwoyees can be filled with the fill tube from the Wiki guide, just have to tie down the appendix?
[19:47] <g0hww> but we're talking 100s of Hz over minutes i guess, roughly
[19:47] <g0hww> or 10s of seconds
[19:47] <Willdude123> mfa298: Is that correct?
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[19:48] <g0hww> some have talked of doppler shift, but with the S shaped trends i would have thought it would be down to cicular motion
[19:48] <g0hww> not linear motion
[19:48] <ikarus> g0hww: I can do some high dimensional pattern analysis on it
[19:49] <g0hww> and then i wondered about forcing acting on crystals and if that could also contribute
[19:49] <g0hww> er, forces, not forcing
[19:49] <ikarus> especially if I can mix it with 9-dof data
[19:49] <bertrik> I calculate 1.45 Hz for each m/s for doppler
[19:49] <bertrik> I think slow changes are due to temperature effects on the crystal
[19:50] <g0hww> i have a bunch of sdr gear, so i'll see about grabbing a wadge of spectrum next time there's a good one near me
[19:50] <g0hww> bertrik, but cyclic temperature changes?
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> evening GW8RAK
[19:51] <mfa298> Willdude123: you might find additional debug messages useful as well - I've just re-written it to something I can run on linux and added in statement to show me when it tests each bit
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[19:52] <ikarus> bertrik: yup, but if you can mix in sensor data (preferably the movement and temperature) and do a correlation on it
[19:52] <ikarus> g0hww: just drown me in data and we'll see what we can dredge up
[19:53] <bertrik> ikarus: HABANERO2 flew a bunch of sensors including gyro, acceleration and compass, but we didn't record radio
[19:53] <ikarus> although that is hardly proof, it just allows you to start looking for the real outcome
[19:53] <g0hww> ikarus, okey dokey. can you send an email to g0hww at mac.com so i remember who to send it to when i get around to acquiring it
[19:54] <g0hww> bertrik, its a good plan i think
[19:54] <Willdude123> ARRGH
[19:55] <Willdude123> WTF?
[19:55] <Willdude123> This should work http://pastie.org/8100997
[19:56] <daveake> Remember this ..
[19:56] <daveake> if you think it should work, but it doesn't
[19:57] <daveake> you thought wrong
[19:57] <Willdude123> Anyway, I'm gonna leave this fu***** thing, because it's just annoying me extremely.
[19:57] <daveake> Computers are quite good at doing exactly what you told them to do and not what you wanted them to
[19:57] <Willdude123> But why wouldn't it do that? Do i need nested for loops?
[19:57] <daveake> I suggest you think about that loop because it's not close to doing it
[19:57] <daveake> e.g.
[19:57] <daveake> if(datastring[x] &0){
[19:58] <daveake> Read up logical ops and see what that actually does
[19:58] <daveake> Also read up about shifting bits
[19:58] <daveake> and actually shift them
[19:58] <mfa298> Willdude123: adding a lot of debug data is very useful.
[19:58] <Willdude123> I'm leaving this **cking thing now.
[19:58] <daveake> fine
[19:58] <Willdude123> I'll do some more tomorrow.
[19:59] <daveake> look at the code when calm
[19:59] <Willdude123> When I calm down, and am not angered by it.
[19:59] <daveake> Remember it's your own code angering yourself. The compiler is only doing what you're telling it to
[19:59] <daveake> And I think patience will help
[20:00] <daveake> And (I said this before) when it doesn't work, THINK about why that is
[20:00] <daveake> don't just post the code and lose your rag
[20:00] <mfa298> Willdude123: this is the output from my console variation, understanding the why it does what it does may help - for testing you might want to include a similar amount of debugging
[20:00] <mfa298> http://pastie.org/private/ek9axpgajpnxnvfoldwbxa
[20:00] <Willdude123> Should I start again, because the code I wrote is shit?
[20:00] <daveake> No
[20:00] <g0hww> ikarus, i suppose the tricky part is correlating the FFT data with the IMU data, but if you get a raw RF recording you can perhaps demodulate and recover the telemetry as you analyse the spectrum
[20:00] <daveake> Debug it
[20:00] <Willdude123> *shi*
[20:01] <daveake> do what mfa298 says
[20:01] <daveake> Adding debug info is a very useful thing and a good habit to get into
[20:01] <Upu> appreciate you're frustrated Willdude123 but the swearing even if masked stops ok ?
[20:01] <Willdude123> mfa298: What? I don't understand that.
[20:01] <Willdude123> Upu: Sure.
[20:02] <mfa298> that's what my program printed out having added *lots* of print lines to help debug
[20:03] <Willdude123> Right,
[20:04] <mfa298> Willdude123: this is the code I ran on a linux console to get that output http://pastie.org/8101032
[20:04] <mfa298> it's re-written slightly as it's not for arduino but you should see you code in it.
[20:06] <Willdude123> What does it mean bit: 0$ etc?
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[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> Good Evening :)
[20:06] <mfa298> try and workout in my code where the bits printed out come from
[20:07] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[20:07] <Upu> o7
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Upu. Pretty much finished my box :)
[20:08] <Willdude123> Does ping Upu mean you've PMed him or you want to talk to him?
[20:08] <Upu> pics ?
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> The parts that needed glueing have been glued. Yes pics on the way, give me few mins :)
[20:08] <Upu> it means my client blinks so I know someone wants to speak to me, or Lunar has said hello
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[20:09] <LeoBodnar_> Hello
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> Also Upu, that stripboard *should* arrive tomorrow at some point. First class delivery and I posted it on Saturday
[20:09] <Willdude123> My terminal has a bell, so my PC makes a sound.
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[20:13] <Willdude123> Wow. PuTTY is still beta.
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[20:14] <Willdude123> Anyway. I best be doing hw.
[20:14] <mfa298> Willdude123: also try not to let code not working first time annoy you. It took me several attempts to go from what you had to something that worked on the console, that's the nature of writing C code, you spend a lot of time fixing errors
[20:14] <chrisstubbs> This is a fantastic bit of work: http://www.tomthompson.com/radio/AntennaRotator/Rotator.html
[20:14] <chrisstubbs> Looks like its a bit beyond the typical DIYer without a proper machine shop though :(
[20:15] <Willdude123> Ok
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[20:16] <LeoBodnar_> Saved for later chrisstubbs
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> chrisstubbs: In principle, car windscreen wiper motors are an excellent starting point.
[20:16] <Willdude123> Python is better
[20:16] <chrisstubbs> SpeedEvil, yeah I have used a few for robotics before so have 3 or so laying about
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:16] <gonzo_> a heavy duty camera pan tilt unit is a good starting point
[20:16] <mfa298> depends what you're trying to do. C has a lot of power under the hood but you've got to understand it better.
[20:16] <gonzo_> add some multiturn pots for the feedback and an LVB tracker and you are there
[20:17] <chrisstubbs> trying to think of a source for some big old gears i could bodge together. Have my metric drive components book open but its all more expensive than just buying a rotator in the first place ;)
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[20:17] <SpeedEvil> chrisstubbs: You can make gears out of wood.
[20:17] <gonzo_> a yaesu az/el unit will cost about a grand new
[20:17] <Upu> it does
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[20:17] <gonzo_> an cam pan tilt can be less than £50
[20:18] <chrisstubbs> True, but this needs to pass the dad test for durability before it can go on the roof so i was thinking steel/nylon
[20:18] <LeoBodnar_> Upu et al,, I am hoping to fly the new tracker tomorrow on a foil balloon. It looks like it will head to Denmark
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> http://woodgears.ca/gear_cutting/template.html
[20:18] <Willdude123> Upu: What client do you use?
[20:18] <craag> LeoBodnar_: Float?
[20:18] <Upu> yes LeoBodnar I really hope I can RX it
[20:18] <Upu> client Willdude123 ?
[20:18] <Upu> for what ?
[20:18] <LeoBodnar_> Hoping so
[20:18] <Willdude123> IRC
[20:18] <Upu> mIRC
[20:19] <Upu> be very interested to see how that radio performs
[20:19] <LeoBodnar_> Not sure how to achieve 0.5m/s ascent if there will be wind.
[20:19] <Upu> very low ascent rate Leo
[20:19] <Willdude123> I've always thought mIRC is crappy shareware.
[20:19] <Upu> and try hit 4000m as the sun goes down if thats possible
[20:19] <Willdude123> Sorry I swore.
[20:19] <Upu> nah its far from crappy
[20:19] <LeoBodnar_> Hmmm, otherwise there is a danger of it bursting before floating.
[20:20] <Upu> I've been using it for longer than you've existed
[20:20] <Upu> yeah
[20:20] <Upu> also gives us all something to tomorrow evening :)
[20:20] <gonzo_> http://www.uhf-satcom.com/rx/ the last few pics in the 's' band section, with the mesh dish. they are on a cam motor unit
[20:20] <LeoBodnar_> That was the plan! :)
[20:20] <LeoBodnar_> Well, still is
[20:20] <chrisstubbs> Think I need to take a trip to the scrapyard after work tommorow for some inspiration
[20:21] Action: SpeedEvil just got a great gearbox for random high torque stuff.
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> Annoyingly, it went 'spang' as it fell off my electric tiller.
[20:21] <Willdude123> Upu: Did you pay the $20 dollars for it?
[20:22] <LeoBodnar_> I have switched over to using I2C to communicate to MAX-6 and it has been nothing but pain so far. Well, if GPS fails we will at least test the UHF bit.
[20:22] <gonzo_> dob it back on with some weld
[20:22] <Upu> it cost me £10 in 1996
[20:22] <Willdude123> Oh dear there's going to be a "Well back in my day, those many years ago, mIRC was $15" story
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: yeah - aluminium.
[20:22] <gonzo_> tig it back on
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: And oily.
[20:22] <Willdude123> I would get it but I can't afford it.
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> And I don't have my tig-converter thing built yet.
[20:23] <gonzo_> you get a smelly fire then too.
[20:23] <gonzo_> I don't have a tig. Would like, but too much for summut that wiuld not be used enough
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: Never mind the plastic bits pressed into the gearbox that I can't seem to dislodge
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[20:24] <gonzo_> sounds like typical chinees kit then SpeedEvil
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[20:24] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: :/
[20:24] <LeoBodnar_> Here's a puzzle. Will heating up gas inside underfilled balloon cause its ascent rate to increase?
[20:25] <LeoBodnar_> My current thinking at the moment - no. Earlier today I thought it would.
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[20:26] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar_: Neglecting tempco of the balloon - and assuming a latex balloon - I'd say yes
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar_: Consider that it's the same as the 'what if I swap out the helium for hydrogen' case.
[20:27] <LeoBodnar_> But expanding gas will also cause the cros-sectional area to increase thus increasing drag.
[20:27] <Hix> ping chrisstubbs
[20:27] <chrisstubbs> Hey Hix
[20:27] <Hix> yo google hpc saw a ref to gears
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar_: Yes - but more volume is r^3. But drag is r^2
[20:28] <chrisstubbs> Was playing with solidworks the other day, pretty easy to pick up from pro/d!
[20:28] <Hix> yeah SW is pretty intuitive
[20:28] <Hix> gaining popularity too
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar_: Lift (in this case) is simply proportional to volume. An extra litre lifts 1.4g (or so) But, the drag only goes up slower than the radius.
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> This is why inflating balloons more makes them go up faster
[20:29] <LeoBodnar_> Sounds plausible. The idea is to have very low buoyancy at thermal equilibrium and then heat the balloon up to increase initial ascent profile to clear trees etc
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> I think you're going to need to get it quite hot
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar_: One option that might almost work is a weight on a long string
[20:30] <Hix> chrisstubbs: http://www.hpcgears.com/
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> But that obviously has its own issue.
[20:30] <Hix> what did you want gears for?
[20:31] <LeoBodnar_> Well, we considered helper ballon on a string and a fuse to separate the two. Slow day in the office...
[20:31] <chrisstubbs> Hix on the site now cheers, I know somone at Davall gears that has sorted me with bits before so may get a better deal with them! Im just throwing ideas about for a DIY antenna rotator
[20:31] <Hix> ahh
[20:31] <chrisstubbs> seeing if I can just throw together one of of bits but proving more difficult than these things sound :P
[20:32] <Hix> know the story ;p
[20:32] <chrisstubbs> All I have to do is make a wiper motor turn an antenna, come on brain :P
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> chrisstubbs: Old breadmaker may be useful
[20:32] <Hix> you may get away with nylons jobbies
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> It's all about radius.
[20:32] <chrisstubbs> Thats what I was hoping for, would stand up to the weather too
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> With enough radius, plywood will work fine
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> (But will of course need covered)
[20:33] <Hix> worm gear, slow but huuuge torque
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[20:33] <chrisstubbs> SpeedEvil, yes thats my main concern, with the weather i would imagine the teeth would just sheer of of ply
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> Cutting helical gears is annoying
[20:33] <jcoxon> fsphil, the uv-5r doesn't turn on :-(
[20:33] <Hix> SpeedEvil: 5 Axis ftw ;)
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> chrisstubbs: Well, you size it right. If you have a 30cm diameter gear with 3cm teeth - it's going to be pretty shear resistant.
[20:33] <chrisstubbs> Hix, yes worm gears were my first thought but they are expensive and will probably be hard to align with a frame bodged out of arc welded steel :(
[20:34] <Hix> ping me some sketches and i can CAD you sommit
[20:34] <Hix> least you can drill after welding to +-0.5mm
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[20:35] <SpeedEvil> Steel alignment is easy if you have a big hammer :)
[20:35] <Hix> every problem is easy with a hammer
[20:36] <chrisstubbs> SpeedEvil, I like this breadmaker idea, what kinda pitch are the gears going to be though?
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> chrisstubbs: They tend to have a belt drive
[20:37] <chrisstubbs> This is slowly starting to drift wildly off topic :P Bread maker drive mechanisms
[20:38] <Hix> bread == bacon so no way near off topic. Correct fsphil ?
[20:39] <chrisstubbs> If bread == bacon then what is a bacon sandwich?
[20:39] <x-f> doubled happiness
[20:39] <LeoBodnar_> Well get an old manipulator robot arm and make it hold/move your antenna. They look cool. Fanuc or ABB will do.
[20:40] <mfa298> bacon, brown sause, bacon,brown sause, bacon
[20:41] <Hix> chef sauce ftw
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> Also, I should mention ##mechanics
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> A small channel at the moment.
[20:42] <chrisstubbs> Cheers SpeedEvil. Might throw some sketches together giving a basic idea and see what people can think of, would be awesome if I could get one massive and one small quite beefy gears from the scrappie for about £15
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon
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[20:44] <craag> chrisstubbs: I'd be v interested in that...
[20:44] <Hix> chrisstubbs: you arent really after great resolution are you? Just torque
[20:45] <chrisstubbs> yeah, to 5 degrees would be nice I guess :P
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[20:45] <craag> I doubt you'd be able to calibrate it to much better than that?
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[20:45] <chrisstubbs> wiper motors are pretty beefy and the antenna is reasonably light but tourque will still be interesting
[20:46] <chrisstubbs> I was thinking about using a digital compass instead of a pot
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> so Hwoyees can be filled with the fill tube from the Wiki guide, just have to tie down the appendix?
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> question to everyone
[20:46] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, check the neck size on the wiki for your balloon
[20:46] <craag> oh nice idea. I have a manipulator arm lying around that I've thought of using, but had no position feedback.
[20:47] <craag> Digital compass chip would work v well :)
[20:47] <chrisstubbs> wiper motors kick out a LOT of noise though, I ended up with a run away robot before if you drove it more than a few feet away haha
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I read the 1600 have a 8.3 cm neck
[20:47] <chrisstubbs> wonder if that would affect the compass
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> our kaymont filler is 4 cm
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[20:48] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, what do you mean by appendix?
[20:48] <Hix> thinking digi compass near a magnetic motor may have issues
[20:48] <chrisstubbs> Its that or stick a ublox at each end of the yagi ;)
[20:48] <Hix> neck I'm guessing
[20:49] <Hix> German is quite a literal language, so a balloon neck i s prob described as something it resembles, hence appendix
[20:49] <Hix> am i right Lunar_Lander
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:50] <Hix> ha, cool.
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:50] <Hix> some of the best word i know in german are sooo literal
[20:51] <Hix> bustwatrz ;p
[20:51] <Hix> sp?
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[20:52] <Hix> chrisstubbs: a stepper would prob be easiest. known number of steps per rev, so fine
[20:52] <chrisstubbs> Hix yes that would be nice, an endstop for a datum too
[20:52] <Hix> steper and some pulleys. sorted
[20:52] <chrisstubbs> but I already have wiper motors and steppers are not cheap :P
[20:53] <Hix> ok
[20:53] <Hix> how about a waterpump ;p
[20:53] <chrisstubbs> I like your out of the box thinking
[20:53] <chrisstubbs> would not be as water tight as you may think though
[20:53] <Hix> im guessing its no longer watertight at all
[20:54] <Hix> did you sort the new Fiesta?
[20:54] <chrisstubbs> Yeah i have had it for 2 weeks :D
[20:54] <Hix> sweet
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> Hix, xD
[20:54] <Hix> ok for wiper what about some kind of optical encoding?
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> did I tell you about the blonde woman midwife Fiesta I saw?
[20:55] <Hix> no, Lunar_Lander does it onvolve a train crash ;p
[20:55] <Hix> *involve
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> xD no
[20:55] <Hix> he
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> supermarket parking lot
[20:55] Action: fsphil arrives at a really odd moment in the channel
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> new raspberry red Fiesta
[20:55] <chrisstubbs> Hix Yep thats a good option, trying to get my head around the mechanics first
[20:55] <Hix> fsphil: missed that bacon
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> and she parks, gets out and goes into the supermarket
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> car stands at an angle in the parking lot
[20:55] <fsphil> I did
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[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> on the back window it says "Midwife 2012"
[20:56] Action: x-f looks up "midwife" in dictionary.
[20:56] <Hix> soo lastyear
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> and the license plate was SE-XY 1661
[20:56] <x-f> soo 17th century
[20:56] <Hix> heh
[20:56] <Hix> 1661 -relevance?
[20:56] <Hix> or just the first bit
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[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> no just the letters
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> numbers probably random
[20:57] <chrisstubbs> Is google maps down?
[20:57] <Hix> ahh. alles klaar
[20:57] <fsphil> bacon's the only thing I've understood so far
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:58] <Hix> fsphil: recap. we went ffrom bacon to kaymont to nipples to midwives to ermmmm, dunno
[20:58] <Hix> ah yes, it started at rotators
[20:58] <daveake> average night then
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> rotators rotate, balloons are round, nipples too
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> and car engines rotate too
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:58] <Hix> so rotating nipples with bacon sandwiches
[20:58] <fsphil> mine doesn't
[20:58] <fsphil> car engine that is
[20:58] <Hix> phew
[20:59] <daveake> you need a wankel
[20:59] <Hix> thought your nipple had seized
[20:59] <Hix> oh god
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> well the output of the engine is a rotation
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> to go into the gear and into the wheels
[20:59] <chrisstubbs> Hix fancy going lootin? http://goo.gl/maps/MEgCm
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> but Wankel is a ingenious idea
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[21:00] <Hix> chrisstubbs: thought you meant Luton there.
[21:00] Action: Hix got the fear
[21:01] <Hix> chrisstubbs: Apart from people who keep pigs, you dont want to cross a scrappie owner #snatch
[21:02] <chrisstubbs> The guy that owns that heap is about 900000 years old and still climbs about over it on a daily basis
[21:02] <Upu> updated spacenear.us LeoBodnar
[21:03] <fsphil> I've been through Luton many many times, not once ever stopped there
[21:03] <Hix> foot to the floor territory
[21:04] <fsphil> I'm sure it's lovely
[21:05] <Hix> all roads out are
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[21:11] <LeoBodnar_> Cheers Upu
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[21:12] <chrisstubbs> Hmm dads still not keen on having a massive yagi on the roof, may need to factor buying my own house into the rotator budget
[21:12] <Hix> that'll screw the budget
[21:13] <Hix> or just tell him he can use it to pick up sky for free
[21:13] Action: Hix blatantly lies with that
[21:15] <Hix> i'm out. laters peeps
[21:15] <Maxell> cya
[21:15] <LeoBodnar_> GN Hix
[21:15] <chrisstubbs> Night Hix
[21:16] <LeoBodnar_> How high foil ones usually go?
[21:16] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar_, http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:microballoons:data
[21:17] <craag> LeoBodnar_: About 5500 max I think.
[21:17] <craag> Depends on the payload weight.. ?
[21:18] <LeoBodnar_> One day one will be able to find all these gems on the Wiki
[21:18] <LeoBodnar_> So far 12g but may increase slightly with enclosure craag
[21:19] <chrisstubbs> Im caling it a night too, bye all!
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[21:19] <fsphil> ah he's gone. was gonna say yagi's don't look that big when on the roof
[21:19] <fsphil> and most people would think it's just for telly
[21:19] <craag> 12g is nice, probably a 4500-5000m float with 0.5 ascent... at a wild guess.
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[21:19] <mfa298> usually the best way to find stuff on the wiki is via google
[21:20] <eroomde> true dat
[21:20] <eroomde> or ask here
[21:21] <eroomde> lot's isn't on the wiki
[21:21] <daveake> WANT http://i.imgur.com/zvS3p71.jpg
[21:21] <eroomde> the back history of cusf isn't, forex, and it often gets dispersed via curmudgeonly proclamations from me
[21:21] <eroomde> should fix that
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[21:21] <ibanezmatt13> that would be convenient daveake
[21:21] <daveake> yup
[21:21] <daveake> Won't need the chase car
[21:21] <craag> Nice daveake! Let me guess... 3am?
[21:22] <daveake> 7am
[21:22] <daveake> Sunday
[21:22] <craag> Oh, not so bad!
[21:22] <ibanezmatt13> gonna do it?
[21:22] <daveake> Well it'll change
[21:22] <daveake> but you bet
[21:22] <mfa298> that's a bit rude for a sunday.
[21:22] <daveake> Just sit there with BBQ, beer and binoculars
[21:22] <craag> I'll be up :)
[21:22] <craag> (VHF Field Day)
[21:22] <ibanezmatt13> As will I :)
[21:22] <daveake> 7am it'll just be bacon
[21:22] <daveake> Did I say "just"?
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[21:23] <ibanezmatt13> Bacon seems very popular on this channel :P
[21:23] <mfa298> have to hope the winds change so you can do that flight at a slightly more popular time
[21:24] <LeoBodnar_> Very calm here. Perfect for launches with 0.5m/s VS
[21:24] <daveake> Me too, but I'd get up early to do that
[21:24] <mfa298> hmm, I'm disappointed, search on the wiki for bacon and there are no results :(
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[21:25] <fsphil> great, may as well shut it down now
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> hm damn
[21:26] <S_Mark> hows it going Lunar_Lander
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> ah well OK
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> not so good that Steve has no KCI-1500 currently
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> and our filling tube might not be good for a Hwoyee 1600 as that is 8 cm in diameter at the filler and ours is 4 cm
[21:27] <LeoBodnar_> Are there any special techniques for launching foil balloons? This is my first.
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> and KCI-1200 can't carry 1.8 kg
[21:27] <Upu> its super easy to over fill
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar_, http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:filling_foil_balloons
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:27] <Upu> so just go really slow
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> and with you S_Mark
[21:28] <LeoBodnar_> Are the valves one-way only? I have 3" Qualatex
[21:28] <Upu> and go on actual ascent rate rather than lift
[21:28] <Upu> yeah you can let the gas out but its tricky
[21:28] <S_Mark> something similar to this LeoBodnar_
[21:28] <S_Mark> http://www.stratodean.co.uk/2013/04/launch-practice.html
[21:28] <S_Mark> lol
[21:28] <S_Mark> good thanks Lunar_Lander
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:29] <LeoBodnar_> Cool.
[21:30] <S_Mark> that was a joke video btw lol, please dont take it seriously haha
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, you got Hwoyee experience?
[21:31] <Upu> well
[21:31] <Upu> I have used them as have many others
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> dave has left
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> hm
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[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> OK call out to any hwoyee users: what is your experience in handling them prelaunch?
[21:33] <Upu> don't stab them with a knife
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[21:34] <LeoBodnar_> How do you seal foil balloon's neck?
[21:34] <S_Mark> Both my launches were hwoyee
[21:34] <Upu> self seal
[21:34] <S_Mark> 1000g
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, cool
[21:34] <Upu> but I fold it over and secure with a small piece of gaffer
[21:34] <S_Mark> seemed pretty straightforward
[21:34] <S_Mark> though I did delegate the balloon responsibility to my Brother who was helping on the day
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> 7.7 cm diameter at the neck
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> we made our balloon filler from the tutorial on the wiki with a 40 mm tube
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> and as the 1600 has an even wider neck, I was concerned about that
[21:37] <S_Mark> just fold the excess around and tape it
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> sounds good
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> also being puzzled by this http://s.gullipics.com/image/z/j/v/5yvabp-ksqgy9-nwo4/TemperatureComparison.png
[21:42] <S_Mark> I am looking at where to get these http://www.maplin.co.uk/0.1inch-series-straight-plug-pcb-header-1487#media and associated plugs on free samples
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[21:43] <eroomde> S_Mark: they're such commodity items that might be diffilcult
[21:43] <S_Mark> yeah it was proving difficult eroomde
[21:44] <S_Mark> fair enough, hand will have to go in pocket
[21:44] <eroomde> if your time is worth more than 50p/hr you might never fecoup the effort of getting samples
[21:44] <eroomde> but
[21:44] <eroomde> big but
[21:45] <eroomde> use the proper crimp tool
[21:45] <Upu> +1
[21:45] <eroomde> if you can't, don't use those connectors
[21:45] <eroomde> use screw terminals or something
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[21:46] <S_Mark> Yeah cool agreed
[21:46] <S_Mark> Thanks!
[21:46] <mikestir> S_Mark: they are molex KK series. they appear to do samples
[21:46] <mikestir> e.g. http://www.molex.com/molex/products/datasheet.jsp?part=active/0010112083_CRIMP_HOUSINGS.xml
[21:47] <mikestir> might be worth a go
[21:47] <S_Mark> ah thanks mikestir!
[21:48] <S_Mark> Will have a look now
[21:49] <S_Mark> I got some SD card housings from molex on sample so fingers crossed
[21:49] <LeoBodnar_> By the way, heads up to everybody - Farnell sells a lot of pre-crimped wires. http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=203772+731+502&No=0&getResults=true&appliedparametrics=true&locale=en_UK&divisionLocale=en_UK&catalogId=&skipManufacturer=false&skipParametricAttributeId=&prevNValues=203772&filtersHidden=false&appliedHidden=false&autoApply=false&originalQueryURL=%2Fjsp%2Fsearch%2Fbrowse.jsp%3FN%3D203772%26No%3D0%26ge
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[21:53] <S_Mark> Ah yeah
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[22:01] <jarod> bertrik when is next balloon in .nl? :)
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar_, so these are supposed to go into JST plugs?
[22:02] <LeoBodnar_> Yes just check which JST series you have.
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
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[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> are there also ready to use wires?
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> or are you supposed to make them on your own?
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. I mean like three, four, five lead ones
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[22:12] <LeoBodnar_> Well these just click into JST housings, I guess it would be difficult to stock every possible connector type and number of pins combination.
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> true
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> so you could buy a pack of 10 of these and the housings
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> and make two five lead ones
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> for example
[22:16] <LeoBodnar_> Yes, I usually buy 300mm long ones - they are crimped on both ends.
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[22:20] <alesan> wow
[22:20] <alesan> hallo to all
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[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok, thanks LeoBodnar_
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> night!
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[23:46] K9JKM (~chatzilla@c-67-184-171-11.hsd1.il.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: I'm getting tired of holding my nose in the election booth
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[00:00] --- Tue Jul 2 2013