highaltitude.log.20130628

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[01:13] <heathkid> so... does anyone have any working and proven Arduino code for the RFM22B-S2 they'd be willing to share?
[01:16] <Darkside> hrm
[01:16] <Darkside> not sure if mine was the S2 or not
[01:17] <Darkside> https://github.com/darksidelemm/geofox
[01:17] <Darkside> heaps of code there
[01:17] <Darkside> i did a few mods to the RF22 library to expose some private functions though
[01:17] <Darkside> so you'll need to use my version of the lib
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[01:55] <heathkid> thanks!
[01:55] <heathkid> looking now Darkside
[01:56] <heathkid> I can always use a known good working lib!
[01:57] <heathkid> ah... the libs are there. do you have a newer version?
[02:25] <Darkside> eh?
[02:25] <Darkside> newer version of what
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[05:44] <G4MYS-Andy> Good morning all!
[05:45] <Upu> morning
[05:52] <Hix> sup
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[05:54] <Hix> Woke up thinking it was Saturday. It is not. I am a disappointed man
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[07:29] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - 29th/30th June"
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[07:45] <HixWork> moaning moaning
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[07:57] <HixWork> monring Babs_ & Jess--
[07:57] <HixWork> or morning depending on how you look at it
[07:57] <Jess--> Morning HixWork
[07:58] <Babs_> morning
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[07:59] <Jess--> not looking good for the titan flight on sunday http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=0f5c004d9d76b5b31940e2cdfd647b7246b2042e
[08:00] <HixWork> Babs_, found more resources for the SF board
[08:00] <HixWork> http://store.ckdevices.com/products/Mongoose-9DoF-IMU-with-Barometric-Pressure-Sensor-.html
[08:00] <HixWork> Jess--, plonk
[08:01] <Jess--> more like splash
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[08:02] <Jess--> that's an interesting looking board HixWork
[08:03] <costyn> HixWork: we're sending that one, or one very much like it, up this sunday
[08:03] <HixWork> its basically the same as what Babs_ bought but with a baro too. The code is apparently compatible with the SF board, as ironically the SF code isnt really
[08:04] <HixWork> costyn, cool, have you any code i could look through whilst i await my pcbs before making mine?
[08:04] <costyn> HixWork: well I'm not making the code. a guy at our hackerspace is responsible
[08:04] <HixWork> k
[08:04] <costyn> HixWork: I'll ask him if he has it in a git repo
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[08:05] <HixWork> cool thx
[08:05] <HixWork> what will you be monitoring with this board costyn?
[08:05] <costyn> HixWork: well we'll be writing all paramaters several times a second to SD card
[08:06] <costyn> HixWork: also there's electric field and UV measurements
[08:06] <HixWork> cool. 9DOF log of flight
[08:06] <costyn> and the science payload is on the camera platform, so we'll be able to see how much it wobbles and turns and also have data on which direction the camera is pointing because of the compass function
[08:06] <costyn> so we'll know direction for pictures
[08:08] <Jess--> just need to make sure that camera clock is accurate
[08:08] <HixWork> this is something I was looking at doing. fire camera only when level and at 10 degree increments in yaw
[08:08] <costyn> weird... my hourly predictor was working just fine, but being a bit of a PITA by not working the last few days
[08:08] <HixWork> NOAA servers are down apparently
[08:09] <costyn> Jess--: yea we'll be able to match up picture the camera takes as the balloon is launched with data from the accellerometer, so exactly syncing up camera clock with gps is not critical
[08:09] <x-f> costyn, how often you run the hourly?
[08:09] <HixWork> I remember someone asking about a composite casing for a HABlimp
[08:09] <HixWork> been looking through my knowledge folder.
[08:09] <fsphil> HABlimp not the best name
[08:09] <costyn> x-f: well usually once a day by hand
[08:09] <HixWork> ;p
[08:09] <costyn> x-f: but it's still using the gfs model of the 26th
[08:10] <costyn> whilte the habhub/predict server is using the gfs20130628_00z model... so it should be available
[08:10] <costyn> in any case, I have to go now... ttyl!
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[08:12] <Babs_> Hixwork - its a nice combo of the sparkfun board (which has the onboard atmega but no alt sensor) and the pololu one (which has an alt but no onboard atmega)
[08:13] <Babs_> Costyn - will be interested to see the results you get. My next payload is going to try and actively level the camera out using three servos to compensate for the recorded yaw, pitch and roll from the boar
[08:13] <Babs_> board
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[08:13] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning :)
[08:13] <Babs_> (I'm not sending a pig up)
[08:13] <ibanezmatt13> Babs_, After lastnight, I've decided to rethink the inside of my box completely
[08:13] <HixWork_> damn work requests.
[08:13] Nick change: MoALTz_ -> MoALTz
[08:14] <HixWork_> Anyway, carbon specs:
[08:14] <fsphil> you'd have to be really boared to launch a pig
[08:15] <daveake> Or a HAM
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[08:15] <HixWork_> T800 6K 2x2 twillcured thickness 0.220mm weight 333g/m^2
[08:15] <ibanezmatt13> I have my components currently laying flat on a piece of styrofoam. What I would like to do is cut holes in this sheet for each component. I need to do this without actually breaking the sheet apart. What tool could I use to cut individual shapes in the foam? Like using a buscuit cutter on a sheet of dough (bad example)
[08:15] <HixWork_> very porcine guys
[08:16] <HixWork_> T1000 12K 2x2 twill cured 0.309mm 467g/m^2
[08:16] <ibanezmatt13> For instance: http://sdrv.ms/1aOoMbT These aren't my actual templates for cutting but still, what tool could I use to cut holes out like that
[08:17] <HixWork_> so, basically to get a blimp the size whoever was asking would mean far too much weight to lift i think
[08:19] <Jess--> if you are looking for light weight material for a blimp (would need coating) look into hyperlast, its used in hot air ballooning as the envelope material
[08:20] <Jess--> for sources (in small quantities) you would be looking at Camerons in bristol or lindstrands in oswestry
[08:20] <eroomde> HixWork_: yo
[08:21] <eroomde> sorry bout yesterday
[08:21] <eroomde> so
[08:21] <eroomde> why quaternions
[08:21] <eroomde> it's because euler angles (roll, pitch, yaw) don't actually properly maintain orientation information
[08:21] <HixWork_> you - nps, how was the after work drink(s)
[08:21] <eroomde> and this can be demo'd with the phone
[08:21] <eroomde> drinks were good! stayed over at some friends last night
[08:22] <HixWork_> to prevent such things as gijhmbal lock from first looks
[08:22] <eroomde> drove in this morning feeling a bit unclean and hungover
[08:22] <HixWork_> nice. proper
[08:22] <eroomde> yes, gimbal lock is a side effect of this lack of ability to represent orientation properly
[08:22] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, do you have any recomendations for cutting shapes out of a sheet of styrofoam? For example, there's a square I need to cut out which is located in the middle of the foam. How should I get at that without cutting into the rest of the foam? http://sdrv.ms/1aOoMbT Not the final thing but an example
[08:22] <eroomde> so roll pitch and yaw and kind of polar-coordinate operations
[08:22] <HixWork_> go on
[08:23] <HixWork_> im all ears, apart from mouth and nose
[08:23] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 Don't
[08:23] <Babs_> ibanezmatt13 - i really don't think you need to do that. As long as everything is secured and doesn't bang around laterally (so using your system of blocks surrounding the components) and something to stop it flying off the surface (so extra strong velcro and a bolted plate on top of the components) it will be fine
[08:23] <Babs_> no hab points for neatness
[08:23] <eroomde> they http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/3D_Spherical_2.svg/240px-3D_Spherical_2.svg.png
[08:23] <daveake> Just cut little strips and glue to the base each side of each component
[08:23] <eroomde> so you have an angle of elevation and an angle of azimuth and so on
[08:23] <Babs_> wise words daveake
[08:23] <daveake> Then they can only move up and down
[08:24] <eroomde> but that doesn't rack orientation properly
[08:24] <eroomde> here is the phone bit
[08:24] <eroomde> have the phone pointed up, the screen facing you like a mirror, as with yesterday
[08:24] <daveake> Then fix that bit (e.g. you could stick a block underneath the lid to push down on a component)
[08:24] <ibanezmatt13> I doubt it'll be secure though because the bits at the sides wont properly fit so it will be able to move. That's why I was going to do it the other way. But I see what you mean
[08:24] <HixWork_> yup, then rotate 90 away
[08:25] <eroomde> yep
[08:25] <eroomde> so the screen is look at the ceiling
[08:25] <HixWork_> yarp
[08:25] <eroomde> now so with respect to http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/3D_Spherical_2.svg/240px-3D_Spherical_2.svg.png
[08:25] <eroomde> you've added 90 degrees in phi (the w-like chanacter)
[08:25] <eroomde> character*
[08:26] <eroomde> ok?
[08:26] <HixWork_> yeah phi ok
[08:26] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, what shall I do with the wires?
[08:26] <ibanezmatt13> under or over?
[08:26] <eroomde> now add 90 degrees in sigma - the '0' like character
[08:26] <HixWork_> yup
[08:26] <eroomde> so the screen is still facing the ceiling
[08:26] <daveake> Cut grooves for them in the foam you insert
[08:26] <ibanezmatt13> top or bottom?
[08:26] <eroomde> but it's 90 degrees rotated to where it was
[08:26] <HixWork_> yh huh
[08:26] <HixWork_> uh huh rather
[08:27] <daveake> top !! Otherwise you can't remove the parts!
[08:27] <eroomde> ok, now subtract 90 degrees in phi
[08:27] <eroomde> so it's pointing up again
[08:27] <ibanezmatt13> oh of course.
[08:27] <eroomde> i.e. just lifting it up with the bottom edge of the phone being the 'hinge'
[08:28] <HixWork_> yeah so screen is right now
[08:28] <eroomde> so in theory we're back where we started in a polar coordinate system
[08:28] <eroomde> and all we did was pitch and yaw transforms
[08:28] <HixWork_> right
[08:28] <eroomde> but we've actually ended up with 90 degrees of roll from somewhere
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[08:29] <HixWork_> this may not be too bad, CAD means i can do cartesian stuff in head quite well :)
[08:29] <eroomde> so euler angles can often get very confused by this, and what quaternions basically do is describe your attitude with 4 states 9rather than 3 in euler angles) and in doing so track the rotation about the angle that you're pointing
[08:29] <eroomde> 4 states (rather than 3 in euler angles)*
[08:30] <HixWork_> ok
[08:30] <eroomde> yeah they're used in cad and computer graphics and stuff
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[08:30] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[08:30] <eroomde> so the maths behind them is not mega intuitive (to me anyway) but they basically just keep tabs on where you are in a nice way
[08:31] <eroomde> and that's obviously very useful for a camera
[08:31] <HixWork_> things like this are great in principle, but to try and get my head around how to code such stuff is miles away
[08:31] <eroomde> because you don;t just want to 'point' the camera in a certain direction, you want to specify the roll along the pointing axis too
[08:31] <HixWork_> I can see the use, but its gonna be a huge curve
[08:31] <eroomde> let me email you a something
[08:31] <HixWork_> k
[08:31] <zyp> another way at looking at a quaternion is like a compact representation of a 3x3 rotation matrix, using only four components instead of nine
[08:31] <eroomde> pm me your email address
[08:32] <Babs_> ooo, can you email me it to eroomde?
[08:32] <Babs_> that 'ooo' sounded a bit too Russel Brand
[08:33] <HixWork_> you bounder
[08:33] <gonzo_> I was just thinking, leslie phillips
[08:34] <zyp> the connection between quaternions and 3D rotation matrices becomes rather intuitive when you realize it's a 3D expansion of complex numbers vs 2D rotation matrices
[08:34] <HixWork_> those carbon specs more tidily this time T1000 280g 12K 2x2 twill cured thickness 0.309mm/ply weight 467g/m^2
[08:34] <HixWork_> T800 200g 6K 2x2 twill cured thickness 0.220mm/ply weight 333g/m^2
[08:35] <HixWork_> "3D expansion of complex numbers vs 2D rotation matrices"!= intuitive in my brain
[08:35] <zyp> well, do you know the relation between a complex number and a 2D rotation matrix?
[08:35] <eroomde> you have mail HixWork_
[08:35] <HixWork_> can anyone remember who it was that was asknig about carbon weights?
[08:36] <HixWork_> cheers eroomde I'll forward it to you Babs_
[08:36] <HixWork_> Babs_, you too have mail
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[08:36] <ZN1> in 'mission control', setting up now! v exciting
[08:37] <HixWork_> zyp, not that i know of, though it may exist somewhere in there
[08:37] Nick change: Jess-- -> Jess--M0VBR
[08:38] <zyp> say you have a rotation of a degrees, a complex number for the rotation would be {cos a, sin a}, a matrix for the rotation would be [[cos a, sin a], [-sin a, cos a]] (unsure about which sin were negative, forgive me if I messed that up)
[08:38] <Babs_> ta hixwork
[08:39] <HixWork_> nps Babs_ ok zyp
[08:39] <eroomde> you're right if those are column vectors zyp
[08:40] <eroomde> and wrong if they're row vectors :)
[08:40] <zyp> good, then we say it's column vectors ;)
[08:41] <zyp> at this point we should probably get into the difference between rotations and rotation groups
[08:42] <zyp> +90deg is a rotation, -270deg is a rotation, both end up in the same position and is therefore the same rotation group
[08:42] <HixWork_> ok
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[08:43] <zyp> so what we did here is that we took a one component number (the angle) and turned into either a two component complex number or a four component matrix
[08:44] <zyp> 2D rotations are easy, there is only one axis to rotate about, so we only need to specify the angle
[08:44] Action: HixWork_ is going to have to break out the K A Stroud
[08:44] <zyp> in 3D, you can rotate about any arbitrary axis
[08:45] <HixWork_> yup, I'm all cool with the XYZ thing
[08:45] <zyp> but what is important to realize is that any set of 3D rotations can be compounded into one single rotation about a given axis
[08:46] <zyp> so the base unit for a 3D rotation is a three-component rotation vector
[08:46] <zyp> the angle of the vector describes the axis, and the length of the vector describes the angle around that axis
[08:47] <zyp> {pi/2, 0, 0} is for instance a 90deg rotation around the X axis
[08:47] <HixWork_> sort of there
[08:47] <HixWork_> ok that is clearer
[08:47] <HixWork_> pi or phi?
[08:47] <zyp> pi, I'm thinking in radians
[08:47] <HixWork_> ok
[08:47] <zyp> pi/2 = 90deg
[08:47] <HixWork_> yeah
[08:48] <zyp> let's call this vector for R
[08:48] <HixWork_> and column vectors yes
[08:48] <zyp> keep in mind how the angle a turned into the complex number {cos a, sin a}
[08:49] <ZN1> is g4fui on this irc atm? I think we may know him irl
[08:49] <zyp> the vector R will turn into the quaternion {cos |R|, sin R}
[08:49] <HixWork_> this is where it all goes wrong
[08:49] <zyp> or to expand it; {cos |R|, sin x, sin y, sin z}
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[08:58] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, http://sdrv.ms/1aOoMbT the SMA connector is a little close to the Pi and they can't really be moved. I'm trying to think where I should put the pieces of foam so that the Pi is secure but the SMA isn't blocked
[08:59] <GW8RAK> Morning. Has anyone got an suggestions for free CAD software please? Just looking to draw and scale 2D shapes.
[08:59] <GW8RAK> an > any
[08:59] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 That's easy you don't need much foam to hold those things still. Just leave space around the SD socket
[09:00] <zyp> GW8RAK, I used librecad once
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[09:00] <daveake> Yu may be overthinking this ... it'd take me 5 minutes to cut and glue scraps of foam to fix that lot
[09:01] <daveake> Translate the above as "just do it; you;ll figure it out"
[09:01] <GW8RAK> Thanks zyp, just Googling/Google'ing that
[09:01] <ibanezmatt13> Hope so
[09:01] <HixWork_> GW8RAK, inkscape is a vector drawing package that will handle 2D dxfs etc
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[09:02] <GW8RAK> dxfs?
[09:02] <HixWork_> standard 2D exchange format
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[09:03] <GW8RAK> Oh, that could be useful as I can probably get the patterns from the University. :) Would save a lot of time.
[09:03] <HixWork_> alternatively I can do it for you in CAD and save as a pdf
[09:03] <HixWork_> is this for templates etc
[09:03] <GW8RAK> Thanks HixWork_ that is most kind.
[09:03] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "[UKHAS] Vague Launch Announcement XABEN-52 et al"
[09:04] <GW8RAK> Garment patterns. I'm being given a large plotter and want to use it if I can.
[09:04] <HixWork_> what format are they in
[09:05] <GW8RAK> I will have to ask the University for the format. Hopefully they'll let me have them.
[09:05] <GW8RAK> But with all the development work we put in FOC, I think I deserve them.
[09:06] <Babs_> GW8RAK - sketchup
[09:07] <HixWork_> ok DXF, DWG or SVG are probably the most used for 2D EPS possibly too
[09:07] <GW8RAK> Thanks Babs_ another one for me to look at over the weekend.
[09:10] <GW8RAK> They all look capable of doing the job.
[09:14] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, https://www.dropbox.com/s/gjw3843l37maeyr/IMG_20130628_101322.jpg
[09:15] <ibanezmatt13> I can't think how to leave room for the SD with that SMA in the way
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[09:17] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: could you cut a slot in the bottom of that divider and then move it closer to the pi ?
[09:18] <ibanezmatt13> which divider?
[09:18] <mfa298> the one to the left of the pi.
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[09:18] <ibanezmatt13> a slot for the SD?
[09:18] <mfa298> so just cut a chunk of the bottom so it fits over the sd card
[09:18] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a look, one sec
[09:19] <ibanezmatt13> Thank you very much mfa298 that would work great. I need to think of things like this more often :)
[09:20] <mfa298> you might want to think of how you're going to ensure the SD card stays in place (cable tie, add a bit of something on the divider so it can't come out.
[09:21] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not sure I want to use cable ties now because they would create holes in the base of the box and let cold air in
[09:21] <mfa298> just think of the out the window test, what bad things might happen (e.g. sd card coming out of the socket) and how do you solve it)
[09:22] <Alchamist> Payload with remote robotic arm?
[09:22] <Jess--M0VBR> I was just about to raise the question of the sd card disconnecting, I have that problem on my pi (and that is in a fixed location)
[09:22] <mfa298> In terms of the SD card I'm thinking how do you make sure it stays plugged into the Pi. Which could be just a cable tie/ elastic band etc around the pi board and sd card
[09:22] <HixWork_> ibanezmatt13, you can always seal with Duct tape after holes
[09:23] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork_, That's a good point
[09:23] <mfa298> HixWork_: it's supposed to be pink gaffa tape isn't it ?
[09:23] <Jess--M0VBR> my pi is one of the 1st model b's so it may be that they have improved the socket
[09:24] <ibanezmatt13> Reckon an elastic band would work?
[09:24] <ibanezmatt13> for the sd and pi
[09:24] <HixWork_> mfa298, no. not pink
[09:24] <mfa298> I'm not sure the SD card socket is much better on my Rev B pi.
[09:24] <Jess--M0VBR> in general the central heating coming on is enough to cause my sd card to disconnect
[09:24] <HixWork_> hot glue for SD?
[09:25] <ibanezmatt13> my SD socket is pretty good but I need to still secure it. If I hot glued it, I wouldn't be able to get it out ever again :)
[09:25] <Jess--M0VBR> yes you would, warm the glue up and pull
[09:25] <daveake> Yeah it's pretty good if you need to remove later
[09:26] <ibanezmatt13> didn't know you could do that, daveake what did you do on your Pi flight?
[09:26] <ibanezmatt13> for the SD
[09:26] <daveake> hot melt
[09:26] <daveake> oh, tape for that
[09:26] <ibanezmatt13> you taped your SD?
[09:26] <daveake> yes
[09:27] <daveake> On 2 flights it was placed upagainst foam so it couldn't come out
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[09:28] <ibanezmatt13> My issue is that the SMA connector is too close to the Pi for me to put a piece of foam in. I would have to cut a slot in the foam and put it over the SD card to secure the Pi.
[09:28] <daveake> ibanezmatt13, eg http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/P1070798-1024x682.jpg
[09:28] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, that's an excellent design
[09:29] <ibanezmatt13> This is why I'm thinking it may be a good idea to make a mould
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[09:30] <HixWork_> daveake, whats the Aruino Pro Mini doing there? backup NTX2 tracker?
[09:30] <ibanezmatt13> I'll stick with patching up using foam dividers. There must be some way of fitting it in
[09:31] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: you might be able to achieve a similar result by cutting a slot for the sd card but either don't go all the way through or add a small piece of foam over where the slot ends. i.e so the foam sits against the pi pcb and the sd card
[09:31] Action: Alchamist starts humming the Tetris tune to ibanezmatt13
[09:31] <HixWork_> heh
[09:32] <ibanezmatt13> haha
[09:32] <daveake> HixWork On that one I used 2 NTX2s, and the Pi can't do that itself. So the Pi sends data for both radio channels to the Arduino, and that demuxes the data and controls both NTX2s
[09:32] <mfa298> to quote the local radio station: We hated living in the tetris house, whenever someone moved into the room next door the whole floor disappeared
[09:32] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, I thought of that, but I wondered how I could cut the foam to be so small without it being so weak
[09:33] <daveake> The Pi took large and small images, with large ones sent to one channel and smaller to the other
[09:33] <ibanezmatt13> That's looking like the better option
[09:33] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, sounds like a very clever method of doing it
[09:34] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: if it's only to hold the sd card in it shouldn't need to be as strong. I'm thinking of effectivly making a mould but by building it up rather than cutting shapes out.
[09:34] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, I'll have a think
[09:34] <HixWork_> hmmm all the RF stuff is a bit above me really.
[09:34] <ibanezmatt13> for extra security, I could put a small piece of duct tape over the SD card too. Looking at it now, that looks a good thing too
[09:35] <mfa298> there's nothing wrong with using two or three ways of keeping the sd card in place as long as they don't interfere with each other
[09:36] <ibanezmatt13> I think the tape wouldn't interefere with the piece of foam. And looking at the thickness of the foam piece here now, like you said, I don't need to go all the way through, there's plenty room to manouvere
[09:37] <ibanezmatt13> I'm off downstairs to cut this SD mold, brb
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[09:47] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, I think it worked ok
[09:48] <ibanezmatt13> I've cut a little slot into the foam piece. The SD cannot move about, and if it's secured by tape, it should be ok
[09:48] <mfa298> sounds good
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[09:49] <HixWork_> Babs_, http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial/3d/quaternions.html
[09:51] <Babs_> thanks hixwork
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[09:54] <ibanezmatt13> Here we are: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ldlndnkfuokczis/IMG_20130628_105315.jpg
[09:54] <ibanezmatt13> And yes, I had a slight mishap with the battery wire...
[09:56] <eroomde> is that solid core?
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[09:56] <ibanezmatt13> what you mean?
[09:56] <eroomde> the wire
[09:56] <gonzo_> that is a bloody big bit of vero!
[09:56] <eroomde> is it lots of little strands or a single thick strand
[09:56] <eroomde> of copper
[09:56] <ibanezmatt13> thick strand
[09:56] <ibanezmatt13> gonzo_, yes it is! Wanted to be safe :) A little too safe
[09:57] <eroomde> don't fly solid core
[09:57] <ibanezmatt13> fly?
[09:57] <eroomde> ok for breadboard
[09:57] <eroomde> not ok for actual stuff
[09:57] <costyn> eroomde: why?
[09:57] <costyn> breaks off with too much movement?
[09:57] <eroomde> it work hardes and fails if you bend it more than about once
[09:57] <ibanezmatt13> When I tried stranded wire, it was near impossible getting it into the veroboard, nevermind soldering it
[09:57] <jonsowman> also is are the RF out and gnd pins cut?
[09:57] <jonsowman> otherwise that entire strip is radiating?
[09:57] <ibanezmatt13> as you can see on the picture, that is correct
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[09:58] <ibanezmatt13> yes it's cut
[09:58] <jonsowman> ok
[09:58] <ibanezmatt13> just behind the NTX2
[09:58] <costyn> eroomde: oh well, not going to replace the couple solidcore cables on my payload now :(
[09:58] <gonzo_> no prob with the gnd lines. The more ground the better
[09:58] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde, I have stranded wire and I'm tempted to use it for the batteries only
[09:58] <eroomde> solid core really just exists for breadbaord work and for winding transofmrers 9really thin solid core) but for general hookup work you shouldn't touch it
[09:58] <jonsowman> ok the rf ground doesn't really matter
[09:58] <jonsowman> but the RF out does
[09:59] <eroomde> if you do use it, i.e for making links in veroboard (which is ok) then make sure it's really difficult for it to move
[09:59] <eroomde> i.e. it's a precise well-cut link
[09:59] <eroomde> but anything that could waggle, hell no
[10:00] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde, would it be ok to solder some stranded wire to some single core wire? On that pic, I can't exactly take off that single core wire now you see
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[10:00] <eroomde> i'd be more inclined to mount your PSU on the veroboard
[10:00] <eroomde> and have very short solid links from their outputs into the board
[10:00] <eroomde> it's the loose waggling that will kill you
[10:01] <ibanezmatt13> the battery pack is very heavy
[10:01] <ibanezmatt13> relatively
[10:01] <eroomde> i mean the bits on the right
[10:01] <ibanezmatt13> the regulators?
[10:01] <Martin_G4FUI> Hi all, is Zenith going to happen today?
[10:01] <eroomde> yes
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[10:02] <fsphil> Martin_G4FUI: maybe. just waiting on news
[10:02] <eroomde> and have the battery pack attach via a connector
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[10:02] <eroomde> eg molex
[10:02] <eroomde> hmm but no crimp tool
[10:02] <x-f> Martin_G4FUI, they were looking for you actually
[10:02] <ibanezmatt13> I think with the way it all is at the moment, changing those sorts of things could create more problems. I will definitely do that for the next one, but for now, I'll just have to make sure those wires can't move
[10:03] <eroomde> i think you're definitely wrong and that bad wiring will create lots of problems
[10:03] <eroomde> but, your shout
[10:03] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a think
[10:03] <jonsowman> you could remove all the solid core and replace with multi core without too much hassle
[10:03] <jonsowman> it'd take some time but not impossible
[10:04] <eroomde> and tie it all down to something
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[10:04] <eroomde> you might get away with the solid core if you route them all carefully and tie them down
[10:04] <M0TVU> Good morning
[10:04] <jonsowman> yes, mounting everything properly is important in either case
[10:04] <fsphil> maybe a blob of something where the wires connect to the board?
[10:04] <M0TVU> Is ZENITH going up today?
[10:05] <ibanezmatt13> I was thinking if I route them all through grooves in the foam pieces and then cap them with a piece of foam, they shouldn't be able to move much at all really
[10:05] <fsphil> in theory M0TVU, but no updates from the launch team
[10:05] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, glue the soldered part of the stripboard?
[10:05] <M0TVU> Aha fsphil. I think I need to talk to you.
[10:05] <fsphil> uh-oh
[10:06] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: maybe not glue, that'd be crappy if you needed to resolder something
[10:06] <ibanezmatt13> tape?
[10:06] <M0TVU> Are you the guy that did all the work on raspberry pi?
[10:06] <fsphil> innocent M0TVU, that's daveake
[10:06] Action: fsphil runs away
[10:06] <M0TVU> In particular the streaming camera?
[10:06] <fsphil> well I did the code that does the image transmittion
[10:06] <fsphil> guilty of that
[10:06] <eroomde> tape or cable ties
[10:06] <eroomde> and logic routing
[10:06] <eroomde> let me find you a pic of the sort of thing i mean
[10:07] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[10:07] <fsphil> transmission even
[10:07] <Martin_G4FUI> I have sigs!
[10:07] <eroomde> i had to knock up a box for someone last year, it was a problem similar to yours, eg a bunch of modules that had to all be wired up together
[10:07] <fsphil> main screen turn on
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[10:08] <Martin_G4FUI> 434.074.400 on my FCDP+
[10:09] <fsphil> any decodes?
[10:09] <Martin_G4FUI> Partials only
[10:10] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: it's just uploading to my dropbox
[10:10] <eroomde> biggish jpeg so taking a sec
[10:10] <ibanezmatt13> ok thank you
[10:11] <daveake> M0TVI If by "streaming camera" you mean the images sent live (ish) from the payload, that uses fsphil's image conversion code; if you mean the live video stream from the launch site and landing site, that was done using a hacked version of ffmpeg
[10:11] <ibanezmatt13> Would I be able to solder some wire onto some wire? Stupid question I think.
[10:11] <eroomde> probably not
[10:11] <eroomde> wait for photo
[10:11] <eroomde> there are various things i want to point out
[10:11] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[10:11] <M0TVU> Hmmm interested in this. - Is the info in the wikki?
[10:11] <fsphil> I wonder if you're receiving this on the ground Martin_G4FUI
[10:12] <fsphil> I'd have expected a decode by now
[10:12] <fsphil> unless it's very low power
[10:12] <UpuWork> is it up ?
[10:13] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ywa2k99p0x5b5e/psu.JPG
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[10:13] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[10:13] <daveake> M0TVU http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ssdv?s[]=ssdv for SSDV
[10:13] <fsphil> Martin_G4FUI is getting partial decodes
[10:13] <UpuWork> oh wow look how close Martin_G4FUI is
[10:13] <fsphil> so I'm wondering if he's getting it before they launch
[10:13] <UpuWork> possibly
[10:13] <eroomde> so first thing, note that wires are logically grouped together and cable-tied down
[10:13] <UpuWork> are you recieving the altitude Martin_G4FUI ?
[10:13] <fsphil> though it's a bit far
[10:13] <M0TVU> daveake. It's the live(ish) transmission from the payload
[10:14] <fsphil> liveish :)
[10:14] <M0TVU> I'll have a look at that link
[10:14] <daveake> And grab SSDV from fsphil's github
[10:14] <Gadget-Mac> eroomde: very neat :)
[10:14] <daveake> It's pretty simple to use -- take an image, run it through the SSDV encoder, then transmit the resulting file
[10:14] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: secondly, note i never solder wire directly to veroboard
[10:14] <fsphil> https://github.com/fsphil/ssdv/
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[10:15] <eroomde> instead i use screw terminals
[10:15] <fsphil> oh, I got an angry pink unicorn
[10:15] <ibanezmatt13> I didn't think of that
[10:15] <eroomde> 3rdly, note that i don;t screw terminal directly into stripped wire as that will just fatigue and break, but instead put a 'bootlace ferrule' (just a hollow metal tube with the plastic jacket) over the end
[10:15] <Gadget-Mac> eroomde: Whats it do ?
[10:15] <eroomde> and crimp that on
[10:16] <eroomde> Gadget-Mac: that was just a quickish PSU we made for someone after we'd done some electronics dev for them
[10:16] <eroomde> they just wanted some wierd voltages for a bit of equipment they had made
[10:16] <Martin_G4FUI> I'm getting a lot of garbled sentences, I'presently trying to work out whether it's a local issue or not ...
[10:16] <eroomde> 80V, 15V, -9V, etc
[10:16] <Gadget-Mac> eroomde: Still very cool
[10:16] <UpuWork> Martin_G4FUI can you post some to pastebin ?
[10:16] <fsphil> if they'd launched, someone else would probably be receiving it
[10:16] <UpuWork> its likely you're getting it on the ground
[10:16] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: you can just use pliers to crimp the bootlace ferrules onto the end of a stripped bit of wire
[10:16] <UpuWork> YEah I can't see it
[10:17] <Martin_G4FUI> I just had a green one whilst typing!
[10:17] <fsphil> at least, I *hope* they haven't launched - cause if the signal is that weak, we've no hope :)
[10:17] <ibanezmatt13> looks good eroomde
[10:17] <daveake> If UpuWork can't see it, it's on the ground :p
[10:17] <fsphil> 2920m
[10:17] <fsphil> yea they've launched
[10:17] <Martin_G4FUI> Solid greens now
[10:17] <GW8RAK> Another Northern launch :)
[10:17] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: also note that on the veroboard itself, i am careful to use short, straight links
[10:17] <eroomde> that can't flex around
[10:18] <UpuWork> must be up
[10:18] <ibanezmatt13> yes, I need to do that
[10:18] <fsphil> this one shouldn't take long to get over my horizon
[10:18] <daveake> I predict M0DTS will have this till it does hit the ground
[10:18] <daveake> and perhaps after
[10:18] <fsphil> 5m/s ascent, yea :)
[10:18] <UpuWork> I see it
[10:18] <GW8RAK> Over mine already, if I was at home.
[10:18] <eroomde> so yes, i would commend screw terminals to you
[10:18] <UpuWork> lack of ground RX....
[10:18] <eroomde> and bootlace ferrules
[10:18] <mattbrejza> lack of ground 3G?
[10:18] <GW8RAK> Could probably pick it up down here on the coast.
[10:19] <ibanezmatt13> not easy now with everything soldered unfortunately but I really need to consider those parts as they'd be much more reliable
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[10:19] <zn1> launched! we all ok??
[10:19] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: there's always a v2
[10:19] <daveake> 7.125 degress ... why do people bother with all those decimal places?
[10:19] <UpuWork> yep zn1
[10:19] <UpuWork> no RX on the ground ?
[10:19] <G4MYS-Andy> Do we have a correct freq for ZENITH please Andy
[10:19] <fsphil> 434.075-ish
[10:19] <UpuWork> 434.073
[10:20] <G4MYS-Andy> many thanks Andy Southampton
[10:20] <eroomde> but yes, my general rule, and this sounds a bit silly until you make a few flying things, is that good cables and connectors are equally important as a subsystem as everything else
[10:20] <eroomde> possibly more so
[10:20] <ibanezmatt13> I think we'll have to go up with v1, not gonna be able to purcahse more stuff just yet.
[10:20] <eroomde> so many failures, especially the worst kind - intermittent failures - come from dodgy cables and connectors
[10:20] <fsphil> I'd go with "more so"
[10:20] <daveake> They're probably the next most unreliable thing after the main one which would be untested software
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[10:20] <fsphil> what use is a gps if the wire for VCC has fallen out :)
[10:21] <eroomde> well, quite
[10:21] <daveake> fsphil Very useful if parasitic power fixes it :p
[10:21] <gonzo_> hmmm, looks like they did not have an on site RX.
[10:21] <fsphil> well possibly phantom power
[10:21] <UpuWork> that prediction doesn't match the prediction this morning
[10:21] <daveake> phantom
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[10:21] <daveake> wrong p word
[10:21] <fsphil> going further south
[10:21] <M0TVU> Hi Dave - G0ELJ - This is where it all happens welcome!
[10:21] <fsphil> last prediction has it landing near Richmond
[10:21] <fsphil> near hadie:2 :)
[10:22] <daveake> Richmond ... some MOD establishments near there IIRC
[10:22] <Martin_G4FUI> First time I've ever seen 40dB+ on fldigi!
[10:22] <fsphil> yea
[10:22] <mattbrejza> Richmond greater london?
[10:22] <daveake> hah no :)
[10:22] <zn1> no, near middlesborough
[10:22] <fsphil> army base in richmond, and an MOD training site near the dales
[10:22] <mattbrejza> :P
[10:23] <daveake> I remember putting a lot of gas in that dress flight to avoid said sites
[10:23] <fsphil> got it
[10:23] <Martin_G4FUI> Just keep it away from Menwith Hill, or there'll be Eurofighters scrambled!
[10:23] <fsphil> sonic boom
[10:23] <fsphil> woo, green on the first string
[10:23] <fsphil> love nearby launches :)
[10:23] <daveake> :)
[10:23] <GW8RAK> :)
[10:24] <daveake> Not bad as you're outside the blue circle
[10:24] <fsphil> the big lake to my east has its advantages
[10:25] Rob_m0dts (57c262d3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.194.98.211) joined #highaltitude.
[10:25] <fsphil> morning Rob_m0dts
[10:26] <Rob_m0dts> hi, local drop today it seems!
[10:26] <Jess--M0VBR> just starting to show in the noise in lincolnshire
[10:26] <fsphil> hah, I thought you said "just starting to snow"
[10:26] <Jess--M0VBR> that wouldnt surprise me
[10:26] <daveake> nor me
[10:26] <gonzo_> show in the snow?
[10:27] <Jess--M0VBR> pretty accurate looking at my fl digi waterfall, 2 faint lines in white noise snow
[10:27] <fsphil> -0.0 elevation
[10:28] <Martin_G4FUI> 12.5 deg here!
[10:28] <GW8RAK> Can I get home before burst?
[10:28] <mattbrejza> wait, did this basicalyl launch on time :/
[10:29] <fsphil> it seems to have
[10:29] <mfa298> on time for a HAB launch at least.
[10:29] <fsphil> zn1 making us look bad :)
[10:29] <mfa298> obviously they havn't taken lessons from sharp/blast
[10:30] <mattbrejza> its getting more radiation up there
[10:30] <fsphil> elevation 0.1 .. woo
[10:30] <g6gzh> visible in the noise in Cambs
[10:31] <mattbrejza> the UV sensor values need more resolution though
[10:31] <Jess--M0VBR> 1 char short of gree decode in lincs
[10:31] <fsphil> 8-bit ascii for text-only. tsk tsk :)
[10:32] <Jess--M0VBR> 1st green in lincs
[10:32] <Jess--M0VBR> elevation 0.5
[10:33] <ibanezmatt13> could anybody reccomend a backup tracker I could use?
[10:33] <fsphil> 0.3 here now
[10:33] PE2G (~Miranda@a83-161-208-176.adsl.xs4all.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[10:34] <Jess--M0VBR> ibanezmatt13: throw together a pico, arduino pro mini, ublox gps & rfm22
[10:34] SamuelBancroft (~SamuelBan@www.nowhere-else.org) joined #highaltitude.
[10:34] <LeoBodnar> Oh, habitat parses time without ":"? I can save 128ms/decode on that
[10:34] <LeoBodnar> Make it 256
[10:34] <SamuelBancroft> geiger counts raising ;D
[10:34] <ibanezmatt13> Jess--M0VBR, Or maybe one of those GPRS things :) That might be a bit much
[10:34] <HixWork_> :D
[10:35] <LeoBodnar> standing up!
[10:35] <SamuelBancroft> OK looking good fingers crossed ;D
[10:35] <LeoBodnar> Very accurate temperature sensor
[10:35] <SamuelBancroft> two sensors
[10:35] <Jess--M0VBR> ibanezmatt13: I was thinking of a cheap tracker that could be tracked in flight
[10:35] <g6gzh> first green, it's a shame I get interference from power sensors down at the lower frequencies
[10:36] <fsphil> yea I've got a load of local noise
[10:36] <fsphil> blips and bleeps
[10:36] <LeoBodnar> Why parser logtail says all decode attempts failed?
[10:36] <SamuelBancroft> that may have been earlier
[10:36] <ibanezmatt13> I've already got my Pi, NTX2 and ublox Jess--M0VBR. I just need a backup GPRS in case that fails
[10:36] <Martin_G4FUI> I think something like that was mucking up the start of the flight here - launch site is obscured by a local hill
[10:36] <LeoBodnar> OK now
[10:36] <gonzo_> not accurate, just lots of places of precision
[10:36] <Babs_> Just looked at it - nice set of instrumentation on there. who is flying it?
[10:36] <fsphil> the failed to parse messagse are from people who have partical but bad decodes
[10:37] <ibanezmatt13> Like this maybe: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mini-Global-Tracker-GPRS-connection/dp/B003XDQUQE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372415727&sr=8-1&keywords=gprs+tracker
[10:38] <SamuelBancroft> it rising ok?
[10:38] <LeoBodnar> K
[10:38] Leyhart (~Leyhart@78.40.152.129) joined #highaltitude.
[10:39] <LeoBodnar> So dl-fldigi sens red decodes to the server too?
[10:39] <ibanezmatt13> those increasing gieger counts are interesting
[10:39] <jonsowman> LeoBodnar: anything beginnig with $$ and ending with \n is submitted
[10:40] ei4esb (6d4d1891@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.77.24.145) joined #highaltitude.
[10:40] <mfa298> I did wonder if the geiger count was a total count but looking at the way it's changed it seems to go up and down
[10:40] <M0TVU> Hi again. WHat's the shift for ZNITH?
[10:40] <jonsowman> yeah it was 56 a minute ago
[10:40] <M0TVU> I have something but it's wider than 450
[10:41] <fsphil> 580hz
[10:42] <mattbrejza> uv's shot up
[10:42] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: if you havn't already it might be worth getting your reciever out, you ought to have a chance of hearing this one.
[10:42] <mattbrejza> look at /mt for graphs
[10:42] <Martin_G4FUI> The autoconfigure worked pretty will for me, but I agree with fsphil that it's just a tad narrower than 600Hz
[10:42] <zn1> its right up!
[10:43] <mattbrejza> cloud layer @ 10km?
[10:43] vladimirek (~vladimire@95.105.250.72) joined #highaltitude.
[10:43] <mattbrejza> (the top at 10km?)
[10:44] <mfa298> or placement of uv sensor (could it have been obscured by the payload / parachute/ balloon)
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[10:44] <LeoBodnar> where to look for /mt?
[10:44] <mattbrejza> 10km could be the top of the clouds tbh
[10:44] <mattbrejza> habhub.org/mt
[10:45] <LeoBodnar> Cheers
[10:45] <mfa298> clouds does seem more likely for the sudden climb - the fluctuations we have now might be due to it's placement.
[10:45] stucky_ (~stucky@ip-2-204-1-26.web.vodafone.de) joined #highaltitude.
[10:46] Action: LazyLeopard suspects there's wet roof as well as geography in the way at the moment.
[10:46] <M0TVU> fsphil - Can I email you about SSDV - Interfaces hardware etc etc...?
[10:46] <fsphil> M0TVU: sure
[10:46] Jess--M0VBR (51a81682@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.168.22.130) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[10:47] g0hww (~g0hww@46-18-104-230.static.vivaciti.org) joined #highaltitude.
[10:47] <LazyLeopard> Ah. Faint traces
[10:48] PD2MST (2e910351@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.145.3.81) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[10:49] <M0TVU> Has someone switched the Transmitter off. - lost it completely here in North B'ham
[10:50] Jess-- (51a81682@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.168.22.130) joined #highaltitude.
[10:50] <mfa298> ooh, funky effects when listeners appear on /mt
[10:50] <HixWork_> Babs_, eroomde look what I unearthed Visualizing Quarternions-Hanson.pdf http://www.maths.ed.ac.uk/~aar/papers/hanson.pdf
[10:50] <LeoBodnar> We need same slick on regular tracker screen
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[10:51] <mattbrejza> for some reason on /mt all data is displayed on the graph using 'steps', expect temperature which is slopy
[10:51] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, I'm planning on removing the wires to the regulators and batteries and changing them for different and longer wire. If I were to just cut the wire instead of unsolder it, would that be ok? Just have a tiny little stump of wire on the stripboard not connected to anything
[10:52] <LeoBodnar> HixWork_: good find, saved for bedtime reading
[10:52] <HixWork_> :)
[10:52] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm. Just under 390kms.
[10:52] <mfa298> mattbrejza: I wonder if it's something related to the data types, alt and temp appear to be floats with the rest being integers
[10:52] <Babs_> Hixwork - nice. He's come a long way since mmmmbop in the 1990s
[10:52] <Martin_G4FUI> M0TVU guess it's 'sferics, strong signal here though with fading even at <50km distance
[10:53] <HixWork_> who'd have thought eh Babs_
[10:53] <Babs_> there is a schlag method in there
[10:53] <Babs_> for mathematicians who sleep around no doubt
[10:53] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: ideally you probably want to remove them totally
[10:53] Nick change: Jess-- -> Jess--M0VBR
[10:54] <HixWork_> Babs_, shaaat it....
[10:54] <Jess--M0VBR> just had my first blue screen in over 2 years
[10:54] Lunar_LanderU (83ad0bed@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.173.11.237) joined #highaltitude.
[10:54] <Lunar_LanderU> hello everyone
[10:54] <mattbrejza> shame the UV sensor is saturatinh
[10:54] <fsphil> did you miss it Jess--M0VBR?
[10:54] Action: Alchamist gets the Duff-Duffs ready for HixWork_ and Babs_
[10:54] <Lunar_LanderU> hi GW8RAK
[10:54] <fsphil> morning Lunar_LanderU
[10:54] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, I don't think I can. I've tied previously to heat with the soldering iron the part where the wire is soldered to, then pull it out while it's melted. Didn't work
[10:54] <LeoBodnar> Maybe update rate on some sensors is not 1/tx
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[10:55] <HixWork_> Alchamist, Duff-duffs?
[10:55] Nick change: HixWork_ -> HixWork
[10:55] <Lunar_LanderU> nice to see Zenith flying
[10:55] <Alchamist> HixWork_:AKA The start of the Eastenders theme tune
[10:55] <Lunar_LanderU> why is it saturating at 600 bits?
[10:55] <fsphil> man that predicted landing spot is verrry familiar
[10:55] <Jess--M0VBR> fsphil: not much, it's very disconcerting when three screens go blank in front of you and then one comes back up in bright blue
[10:55] <HixWork> Alchamist, ahhh gotcha
[10:56] <mfa298> interesting, pressure went from stepping to being more of a curve, could be some sort of rouding/ precision error (or just not updating the data all the time)
[10:56] homewld (51982950@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.152.41.80) joined #highaltitude.
[10:56] <fsphil> zn1: if you guys have to go into the dales, keep an eye out for a silver payload :)
[10:56] <Alchamist> Jess--M0VBR: Winblowz?
[10:57] <LeoBodnar> Have you seen the icon that Mac OS X uses for Windows PCs?
[10:57] <HixWork> no?
[10:57] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: if the solder is meting you should be able to remove the wire.
[10:57] <Jess--M0VBR> Alchamist: winblows 7, to be fair that's the first crash in 2 years+ even though the system gets pushed hard
[10:58] <Alchamist> Jess--M0VBR: Well Winblowz 7 is on the positive side of the good/bad release cycle I guess! :)
[10:58] <LeoBodnar> http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/30/mini-how-to-remove-the-windows-bsod-icon-in-leopard-make-os-x-a-little-less-smug/
[10:58] <fsphil> I wouldn't mind Win7 so much if they're not removed XP's file search
[10:58] <x-f> mfa298, might be a /mt issue, data looks ok to me - http://i.imgur.com/pN4XO1G.png
[10:58] <fsphil> the win7 search is horrible
[10:58] <LeoBodnar> Below belt. Kernel panic themselves sometimes
[10:58] <ibanezmatt13> I've decided that I'm gonna give it a go. I'd rather spend time making it better than risking flying it like this. I'm gonna completely remove all regulators and battery pack. The other connections are ok as they are. I'll then use stranded wire to reconnect the regulators in relation to the design of the box so they're unlikely to snap and aren't tangled. Good diea?
[10:59] <ibanezmatt13> idea
[10:59] G0ELJ (4d6668da@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.102.104.218) joined #highaltitude.
[10:59] <G4MYS-Andy> Just got faint trace of RTTY in Southampton
[10:59] <mfa298> x-f: interesting
[10:59] <Jess--M0VBR> I use effective file search, pretty powerful
[11:00] <fsphil> xp did have that annoying animated dog I kept having to switch off. only for it to do another animated switching off
[11:00] <HixWork> I've noticed that since finding out that my cotract will not be renewed [not told, found out] i have lost the word productivity
[11:00] <eroomde> i use 'find'
[11:00] <fsphil> I can't run a real OS at work :(
[11:00] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: yes, good idea i think
[11:00] <LeoBodnar> x-f: how do you get the plots?
[11:01] <eroomde> as much for playing with it on the ground as flying it
[11:01] <fsphil> though I could run windows in a VM
[11:01] <eroomde> alsco screw terminals are good
[11:01] <eroomde> probably £2 will get you more than you need
[11:01] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: with the size of vero board you've got I'd be very tempted to attach the regulators to the vero board (unless you're going to cut the vero board down to a smaller size
[11:01] <x-f> LeoBodnar, http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/13e25372fe5eef0f3400c80a88a2c67d
[11:01] G0ELJ (4d6668da@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.102.104.218) left irc: Client Quit
[11:01] <LeoBodnar> HixWork: is it after you flashed notepad with HAB stuff in it to the boss?
[11:01] <PE2G> Hi all, what't the current dial for ZN1?
[11:02] <Martin_G4FUI> 434.077 with me
[11:02] <PE2G> Thanks
[11:02] <fsphil> my fcd frequency is well out
[11:02] <fsphil> it's saying 434.070
[11:02] <eroomde> external temp looks like it has a bug doesn;t it
[11:02] <LeoBodnar> x-f: cheers. does link include payload doc ID or is it random?
[11:02] <x-f> random
[11:02] <HixWork> LeoBodnar, nope - the MD is diggin his heels in and refusing to renew any contracts
[11:02] <HixWork> Perm only for him from now.
[11:02] <fsphil> shift is down to 550hz
[11:03] <HixWork> which kinda screws the companies transition to Catia
[11:03] <HixWork> as I am the only trained user
[11:03] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, I'm gonna keep the board the same size, but I don't know how to mount the regs to the board... Solder surely wouldn't hold it
[11:03] <HixWork> and will be off in ~6 weeks
[11:03] <x-f> ibanezmatt13, drill some holes and use screws
[11:04] <HixWork> btw LeoBodnar if you know of any design places up on the estate looking for Catia V5 contractors for build season, let me know
[11:04] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: hot glue / cable ties
[11:04] <LeoBodnar> Sorry to hear :-\
[11:04] <HixWork> 5717 happens in this game
[11:05] <fsphil> crazy frequency jump there
[11:05] <fsphil> or was that my receiver?
[11:05] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/mc000034/terminal-block-pcb-2way-26-12awg/dp/2008004
[11:05] <ibanezmatt13> problem is, I would have to break out some tracks, which would be a massive pain because I need several tracks to run most of the way
[11:05] <eroomde> these are good
[11:05] <eroomde> 2 terminals
[11:05] <LeoBodnar> We had one in the shop nearby and he has moved out too. I'll keep this in mind though if somebody says "CAD"
[11:05] <ibanezmatt13> thanks eroomde
[11:06] <eroomde> you can get them in lots of flavours though
[11:06] <eroomde> 4/5/6/8 terminals etc
[11:06] <HixWork> cheers LeoBodnar
[11:06] <LeoBodnar> I like 0.1" screw terms
[11:07] <eroomde> turbulence
[11:07] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: yes me too
[11:07] <HixWork> they're very PLC
[11:07] <eroomde> they make putting stuff together quickly less annoying
[11:07] <fsphil> payload is rising into the westerly winds
[11:08] <ibanezmatt13> I'm even gonna get a new GPIO cable. I'm really doing it properly now.
[11:08] <Martin_G4FUI> Just getting to the "twiddly bit" on the prediction ...
[11:08] <LazyLeopard> Heading your way for a while, fsphil ;)
[11:08] <fsphil> frequency is all over the place
[11:09] <LazyLeopard> Yeah. Quite wobbly
[11:10] <M0TVU> What freq now? - I lost it a while back
[11:10] <fsphil> fast enough for the AFC to lose it
[11:10] <Lunar_LanderU> eroomde: thanks for that, was looking for these for a long time
[11:10] <Lunar_LanderU> i.e. for models with more than 2 terminals
[11:10] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: for the gpio cable you might just be able to use the other end of the one you cut in half
[11:10] <fsphil> near 434.077 I believe M0TVU
[11:11] <eroomde> np LL
[11:11] <UpuWork> 434.075
[11:11] <fsphil> pretty certain it's landing in the dales
[11:11] <ibanezmatt13> afraid not mfa298. Not only have I binned it, I cut it right at the edge too. I've just reserved one at Maplin, they're only £1.99
[11:11] <M0TVU> nothing here on my modest setup
[11:11] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 What I tend to do is build 2 complete trackers - one for development and one for the flight. That means all the manhandling during development only happens to the one that's not flying
[11:12] <SamuelBancroft> We are going to chase it when we know where it is more likely to go
[11:12] marcosscriven (~marcosscr@cpc14-slam6-2-0-cust507.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[11:12] <UpuWork> I would be setting off noe
[11:12] GMT (GMT@cpc15-haye15-2-0-cust426.17-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[11:12] <UpuWork> go to Richmond
[11:12] <fsphil> yes
[11:12] <UpuWork> you want to be close to it when it lands
[11:12] <SamuelBancroft> Bu t if anyone wants tochase it you are welcome to, just dont turn it of if you find it
[11:12] <fsphil> you don't want to have a large area to search in the dales
[11:12] <fsphil> trust me :)
[11:12] <daveake> hah
[11:12] <UpuWork> lol no go now :)
[11:12] <eroomde> yes, start chasing now
[11:13] <eroomde> we know roughly where it's going to go
[11:13] <eroomde> you want to be there
[11:13] <UpuWork> serously have you not set off already ? :)
[11:13] <Alchamist> fsphil: voice of experience?
[11:13] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, Can't believe it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vgs0k8xwfpbbgfk/IMG_20130628_121224.jpg
[11:13] <daveake> go
[11:13] <daveake> now
[11:13] <daveake> be gine
[11:13] <daveake> gone
[11:13] <eroomde> NOW
[11:13] <fsphil> Alchamist: sadly yes. there's a lonely payload still in there, full of wonderful pictures nobody will see :)
[11:13] <UpuWork> 5 hour battery life and Friday traffic
[11:13] <UpuWork> oh boy its Friday awesome
[11:14] <eroomde> http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbo6kyreOf1ri1bqgo1_500.gif
[11:14] <fsphil> are you there yet?
[11:14] <Lunar_LanderU> hey UpuWork
[11:14] <Martin_G4FUI> Nice fossils to be found in the R.Swale :)
[11:14] Action: UpuWork pokes Lunar_LanderU
[11:14] <UpuWork> you know there is a launch on Lunar ?
[11:14] <UpuWork> where is Lunar and what have you done with him ?
[11:14] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah and I am at work
[11:14] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, all those wires sticking up I need to remove as I was talking about earlier
[11:14] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[11:14] <fsphil> so am I :)
[11:14] <UpuWork> me too :)
[11:15] <x-f> multitasking? :)
[11:15] <daveake> me too
[11:15] <UpuWork> eating a sandwich actually :)
[11:15] <Lunar_LanderU> yea :)
[11:15] <Lunar_LanderU> tasty!
[11:16] <fsphil> does it have HAM?
[11:16] <UpuWork> confirming ham salad
[11:16] <fsphil> another crazy frequency jump
[11:16] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: if you melt the soler with a solering iron they should come out. Failing that if you cut them flush to the board you might find you can remove the end with the soldering iron.
[11:16] <UpuWork> thats wierd
[11:16] <LazyLeopard> Another sudden frequency shift...
[11:16] <daveake> NTX2?
[11:17] <UpuWork> yes
[11:17] <daveake> strange then
[11:17] <UpuWork> power
[11:17] <Alchamist> Strong winds blowing the wave particles ...
[11:17] <UpuWork> possibly
[11:17] <fsphil> aliens
[11:17] Nick change: KyleYankan -> KYLEYANKAN
[11:17] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, ok thanks. I can't believe I'm redoing it, but at least it should be better. Before I do anything, where shall I put the regs in my box, assuming I can't break out any of the tracks.
[11:17] <Martin_G4FUI> Had a deep fade here, but it seems to be recovering
[11:17] <Jess--M0VBR> seems to be shifting more than the rfm22s
[11:17] <LeoBodnar> Lack of electrons up there
[11:17] <Alchamist> sun spots
[11:17] <daveake> Lack of insulation probably
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> Bad Feng Shui.
[11:18] <Alchamist> As least we don't have the etch-a-sketch effect this time
[11:18] <Martin_G4FUI> 24deg el
[11:19] <Jess--M0VBR> it's shift seems to be varying too
[11:19] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: with the vero board you've just I'd just secure the regs onto a free bit of space on the board and then run short wires from the regs to the board as you did previously.
[11:19] <Martin_G4FUI> I wonder what the VRP of my aerial looks like?
[11:19] <mfa298> just means there's less floating around in your box that you need to secure.
[11:19] <fsphil> yea shift is down to 550hz
[11:19] <fsphil> resistors affected by the cold?
[11:19] <daveake> Nah
[11:20] <UpuWork> driving yet SamuelBancroft ?
[11:20] <ibanezmatt13> but how should I stick the regs to the stripboard? I don't want to solder anything really apart from the wires
[11:20] <daveake> they'd all be affected the same and the coeff won't be anywhere near enough
[11:20] <gonzo_> pull ups from vbattg then?
[11:20] <fsphil> hope not
[11:20] <daveake> Just the NTX2 itself I think
[11:21] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: hot glue, drill some hole and screw it on or cable tie. various options.
[11:21] <Jess--M0VBR> I am suspecting that vbatt is dropping, seems to be getting weaker to me too
[11:21] <daveake> That would be worrying
[11:21] <daveake> They have 5 hours someone said
[11:22] <LeoBodnar> What batteries tech does it use?
[11:22] <daveake> They'll be Energizer Lithiums
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[11:22] <daveake> I hope
[11:22] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, wouldn't hot glue go through the holes and block the tracks?
[11:22] <Jess--M0VBR> is anyone else seeing weaker signals? or is it just me
[11:22] <mfa298> I think they said something like that earlier for the batteries
[11:22] <LeoBodnar> Wot no Vbat in telemetry?
[11:23] <Martin_G4FUI> SNR here hovering around 30dB
[11:24] <Martin_G4FUI> with quite a bit of fading
[11:24] Action: HixWork has no vbat in my string
[11:24] <HixWork> maybe that should go in
[11:24] <LeoBodnar> Is UV sensor overflowing?
[11:25] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: it might go through te holes a bit. although you don't necessarily need to solder wires near to there. What I'd probably aim to do is use short wires from the reg onto the stripboard which would also hold it in place then add some hot glue / cable ties to provide additional security.
[11:25] <LeoBodnar> Shame, it would be interesting to see if the Sun is still ups there
[11:25] <ibanezmatt13> cable ties sound like the better option
[11:26] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: but you might find using longer wires easier as you can get the connections to wher they need to be.
[11:26] <ibanezmatt13> that's mainly the reason I'm redoing it :)
[11:27] <Martin_G4FUI> The Tan Hill pub is supposed to be good :)
[11:27] <Lunar_LanderU> the problem with a single UV sensor is anyway, how I got it, that you do not have much information afterwards
[11:27] <Lunar_LanderU> you'd need a reference diode to compare with for example
[11:29] <Jess--M0VBR> it's gone back into the noise in lincs now
[11:29] <Jess--M0VBR> maybe 1 char in 5 readable
[11:29] <fsphil> being decoded in france
[11:30] <GMT> can't decode it in London, but can see sig on waterfall
[11:30] <gonzo_> same in dorset
[11:30] <PE2G> I have traces on 434.0758
[11:31] <Jess--M0VBR> here's what I can get $$Z!,279,113018,4/6071p4,-2.09955=,25474>?,-8,,-q.1r,4401181022.7"2C
[11:31] <LeoBodnar> I guess you want a UV and maybe an eye response photodiode to correlate the results?
[11:31] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, that would be nice: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xje3plit8amommm/IMG_20130628_123049.jpg
[11:31] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: this is what I did for a small module I had that I wanted to use with breadboard: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14636926/2013-06-28%2012.28.34.jpg no glue on that due to size, number of connections and only being for testing. but if it needed something more I'd either add hot glue or cable ties
[11:32] <ibanezmatt13> looks good
[11:32] <Martin_G4FUI> Silly question: if only ASCII data is being sent, why use an 8-bit transmission format?
[11:32] <ibanezmatt13> I don't think cable ties are going to work in my case either mfa298. May have to use glue. What do you think? https://www.dropbox.com/s/xje3plit8amommm/IMG_20130628_123049.jpg
[11:33] <fsphil> Martin_G4FUI: yes I've ranted a bit about this :)
[11:33] <LeoBodnar> I'd rather use 7N2 as start bit has more chance
[11:33] <Lunar_LanderU> LeoBodnar: yes or have two UV diodes at different wavelenghts, so that their response curves overlap
[11:33] <M0TVU> $$ZN1,287,11324254.606997,-2.118215,26342.8,8,0.4,-10.562,2118,1751014*8B8A - Is about as close as i've got so far
[11:33] <mfa298> With those mouting holes on the regs I might look to see if you could use some sort of nut and bolt combination (probably nylon ones rather than metal)
[11:34] <LeoBodnar> Just get spectrophotometer up there. It produces beautiful images. I have one :)
[11:34] <mfa298> you might need to make a bigger hole in the veroboard so check which tracks are unused
[11:34] <ibanezmatt13> unfortunately, one of them has a heat sink
[11:35] <G4MYS-Andy> suggest reduce RTTY to 560 may find it more easy to resolve Andy
[11:35] <ibanezmatt13> is it worth getting another without heatsink mfa298 ?
[11:35] <LeoBodnar> It's RS232 and very flyable http://www.science-surplus.com/products/spectrometers
[11:35] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: ultimately you need to work out what's going to work best for you and how much you want to replace.
[11:36] <Lunar_LanderU> LeoBodnar: awesome :)
[11:36] <ibanezmatt13> I need the best possible fit for my stripboard, and I'm prepared to pay seen as they're very cheap
[11:36] <PE2G> First green decodes at dx 633km: http://s17.postimg.org/orobp0k8v/Screen942.jpg
[11:37] <mfa298> as long as it's not going to overheat a new psu module might make things easier
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> PE2G: Nice!
[11:37] <UpuWork> nice distance PE2G
[11:37] Action: SpeedEvil wonders what sort of antenna would be needed to receive at 1000km.
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> (From a balloon)
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> (From = recieving at)
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[11:38] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, what do you mean? You think it'll overheat?
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[11:39] <Lunar_LanderU> wb GW8RAK
[11:40] <Lunar_LanderU> hello PE2G thanks again for the e-mail
[11:40] <GW8RAK> Hi Lunar_LanderU
[11:40] <Lunar_LanderU> (this is Kevin from the Uni at Osnabrück)
[11:40] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 It won't overheat
[11:40] <Lunar_LanderU> GW8RAK: how's life?
[11:40] <GW8RAK> It's good. Work is doing very well and there's only 2 months to the wedding. :)
[11:40] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, https://www.dropbox.com/s/xje3plit8amommm/IMG_20130628_123049.jpg that'll be ok even without the heatsink?
[11:40] <daveake> They don't get warm with a model B tracker let alone a model A one
[11:41] <LeoBodnar> Does Sarantel look shorted on this picture? https://www.dropbox.com/s/xje3plit8amommm/IMG_20130628_123049.jpg
[11:41] <ibanezmatt13> the regulators I mean
[11:41] <PE2G> Lunar_LanderU: Hallo Kevin
[11:41] <GW8RAK> How are things in Osnabruck?
[11:41] <Lunar_LanderU> ah overcast and a bit of drizzle but OK and with you?
[11:42] <GW8RAK> 36hours of rain has just finished
[11:43] <fsphil> ah, past 30km
[11:44] <fsphil> if it bursts early, it'll be near the A1, if it bursts late it'll be deep in the dales
[11:44] <GW8RAK> Nearly 5 degrees over the horizon for you fsphil
[11:44] <fsphil> yea! 4.7
[11:44] <fsphil> this is most unusual
[11:45] <fsphil> 4.8 now
[11:45] <GW8RAK> You'll be forgetting what weak signals are
[11:45] <fsphil> distanec down to 290km
[11:45] <fsphil> e<>c
[11:45] <UpuWork> 17' for me
[11:45] <UpuWork> I should elevate really but its disabled
[11:45] <Martin_G4FUI> Good job radios don't get neck ache - just gone over 45deg here :)
[11:46] <Jess--M0VBR> 6.6 and 234 for me
[11:46] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: if they're switchmode power supplies and your not using them at full power they shouldn't overheat but it not something I'd make a call on without having information about them (I've never used them), but if daveake is saying they'll be fine then I'd listen to him.
[11:46] <fsphil> 4.9
[11:46] <LazyLeopard> 2.7 and 396
[11:46] <GMT> signals getting stronger here, but still no decode
[11:47] <ibanezmatt13> alright, thank you :)
[11:47] <fsphil> burst
[11:47] <Lunar_LanderU> 31685 m
[11:47] <Lunar_LanderU> well done
[11:47] <UpuWork> that was bang on
[11:47] Action: HixWork knows the whole maths thing is going to be an uphill struggle when he had to resort to the textbook to remember order of precedence. BODMAS
[11:48] <Lunar_LanderU> 103953 ft for the american colleagues
[11:48] <fsphil> earlier than the predictor was set to
[11:48] <Lunar_LanderU> :P
[11:48] <HixWork> *head in hands
[11:48] Action: fsphil shakes Lunar_LanderU. snap out of it man!
[11:48] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[11:48] <HixWork> There are 2 feet L and R
[11:48] <UpuWork> lying burst slightly early
[11:48] <PE2G> I lost ZN1 already
[11:48] <G4MYS-Andy> and for us who dont want to understand european measurements! feet please!
[11:49] <fsphil> which may put it near the A1
[11:49] <gonzo_> you just put your foot in it
[11:49] <fsphil> actually that prediction doesn't look too bad
[11:50] <UpuWork> SamuelBancroft put the chase car app on
[11:50] <eroomde> is he chasing now?
[11:50] <UpuWork> no idea
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[11:50] <fsphil> there are some massive trees on that Reeth Road into the dales
[11:50] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[11:51] <Lunar_LanderU> the only three countries remaining with Imperial are Myanmar, Liberia and
[11:51] <Lunar_LanderU> USA
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[11:53] <Martin_G4FUI> Wife passes me a sausage butty whilst I'm glued to the console ...
[11:53] <fsphil> mmmm
[11:53] <Babs_> I need one of those wife things
[11:54] <Babs_> I've just passed myself a diet coke but its not the same
[11:54] <Martin_G4FUI> ;)
[11:54] chrisg7ogx (6d9e943f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.158.148.63) joined #highaltitude.
[11:54] <daveake> We've been married 27 years today I'm kinda hoping for something better than a sausage butty
[11:54] <fsphil> I hear they're expensive
[11:54] <daveake> bacon butty perhaps
[11:55] <chrisg7ogx> just got in can i have a dial frequency please someone?
[11:55] <Martin_G4FUI> you only get 20yrs for murder, they say ...
[11:55] <G4MYS-Andy> try 434.075=- dial cal
[11:55] <HixWork> Babs_, aren't you about to get wife1.0
[11:55] <chrisg7ogx> thanks Andy..only occasional low freq bleeps there
[11:56] <G4MYS-Andy> also try to narrow to 50 /560
[11:56] <LazyLeopard> Faint and fading fast.
[11:56] <Martin_G4FUI> daveake congrats, enjoy your posh dinner and bottle of wine !
[11:56] <Rob_m0dts> it might just land before i leave for work... 13:30, close!
[11:56] <G4MYS-Andy> aggreed freq has QRM on it
[11:57] <G4MYS-Andy> well there are others for you to chase over next few days, been interesting to have one way up north!
[11:57] <Rob_m0dts> fsphil: that landing area looks familiar!
[11:57] <G4MYS-Andy> back to monitoring 10M bacons and rag chews on 40M me thinks!
[11:58] <fsphil> it does indeed. at least this payload has a working antenna
[11:58] <Alchamist> 10M bacons? That's a big pig ....
[11:58] <Babs_> HixWork - yes, but the deposit is down for the wedding now so effectively its a done deal. EDIT: she doesn't have to try hard anymore.
[11:58] <Rob_m0dts> ha true
[11:58] <G4MYS-Andy> wedding? hope you knowwhat your letting urself in for! ha ha ha
[11:59] <Babs_> congrats daveake. I shall model not only my polystyrene skills on you now but also my marriage.
[11:59] <daveake> hah!
[11:59] <Babs_> 27 years is good work
[11:59] <HixWork> heh
[11:59] <UpuWork> lol
[11:59] <GW8RAK> Only 60 days to mine, it's getting close!
[11:59] <HixWork> Congrats daveake
[11:59] <daveake> Handy hint on both subjects: Don't use the white foam
[11:59] <Babs_> gross
[12:00] <Babs_> but useful nonetheless
[12:00] <daveake> er ... I mean that covering the carpet with bits of white polystyrene isn't conducive to a long marriage
[12:00] <daveake> Some people have dirty minds .......
[12:01] <Babs_> I think Jenn would say that HABing isn't conducive to a long marriage
[12:02] <Babs_> She was very patient with it sitting in the living room for 6 months during the build though
[12:02] <Babs_> I need a garage or shed
[12:03] <HixWork> manshed should be like a dowry
[12:03] <G4MYS-Andy> you need a female prove hovel to play in out the way of prying eyes!
[12:03] <Babs_> I was in Zimbabwe once and saw a dowry being negotiated live
[12:03] <Babs_> it was quality
[12:03] <HixWork> heh
[12:03] <Babs_> and they say Africa is less advanced than us
[12:04] <Babs_> I'm not taking anything less than 3 cows and a pig for her
[12:04] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: do you have multicore wire already?
[12:04] <HixWork> whoa, thats a fair bit of grub
[12:04] <G4MYS-Andy> I supose if you w pay a furtune for your woman may may not as much greif!
[12:04] <Babs_> or him, i can't remember which way around it was as I was as drunk as a skunk on scuds
[12:04] <HixWork> bacon and steak, oh and burgers too
[12:04] <eroomde> i made a proper bacon buttie this morning
[12:05] <eroomde> proper thick back bacon and a very cheap soft white bap
[12:05] <eroomde> was dropping my friend off at heathrow super early
[12:05] <eroomde> which justifies butties
[12:05] <Martin_G4FUI> My missus is chucking herself out of an airoplane for charity a week on Sat!
[12:05] <eroomde> as long as it's not somehting you said
[12:05] <Martin_G4FUI> That's a kind of High Altitude, I suppose!
[12:05] <Babs_> top porcine skills eroomde
[12:06] <eroomde> well, it's ually a pre-hab thing
[12:06] <HixWork> Martin_G4FUI, thats very kind of her
[12:06] <eroomde> usually*
[12:06] <HixWork> ;p
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[12:06] <Alchamist> Martin_G4FUI: Are you attaching a tracker? ;)
[12:06] <Martin_G4FUI> :)
[12:06] <fsphil> ssdv ... just enough time to get one image...
[12:06] <HixWork> are you bothered about recovery?
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[12:07] <Alchamist> Cutdown on the parachute?
[12:07] <Martin_G4FUI> Well, I'd miss the sausage butties! :)
[12:07] <UpuWork> go get it Martin_G4FUI free Rasp Pi :)
[12:07] <fsphil> hah
[12:07] <fsphil> 6700m and I'm still receiving it
[12:08] <fsphil> and just as I said that, red line
[12:08] <UpuWork> now that doesn't happen very often :)
[12:08] <Babs_> hmmm. are UAVs permitted below a certain altitude?
[12:08] <HixWork> ooh Mahlzeit
[12:08] <HixWork> bbl
[12:08] <fsphil> yea I've lost it
[12:08] <Martin_G4FUI> It's more or less following the line of the so-called "Cumberland Gap" relative to me
[12:08] <fsphil> well that was different
[12:08] <UpuWork> I'll loose it soon
[12:08] <SpeedEvil> Babs_: you're in the UK?
[12:08] <fsphil> they disappear so quickly when they're nearby!
[12:08] <SpeedEvil> I forget
[12:08] <Babs_> SpeedEvil: yes
[12:08] <daveake> Fifteen miles on the Cumberland gap
[12:09] <Babs_> does that mean the standard answer about anything remotely airborne ie no?
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> Babs_: IIRC 250m altitude, and you are required to directly visually observe them at all times - for RC models.
[12:09] <fsphil> landing in 15 minutes
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> Babs_: indirect (FPV) is _NOT_ permitted.
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> Babs_: UAVs have different requirements, but you don't want to do that.
[12:10] <Babs_> So you couldn't parachute down to 250m, then cut the parachute, then do a whole mars skycrane thing to direct the thing to somwhere sensible?
[12:10] <SpeedEvil> Yes.
[12:10] <SpeedEvil> If you have it under direct visual observation at the time
[12:10] <eroomde> i think a skycrane from hab thing is cool
[12:10] <eroomde> should do it
[12:10] <daveake> yup
[12:10] <Babs_> too many great ideas, too little time, too much red tape
[12:11] <SpeedEvil> Do the CAA get pissy if you address letters to them 'To the soulless minions of orthodoxy' ?
[12:11] <Babs_> I guess one would have it in direct visual observation at all times
[12:11] <GMT> ignore the red-tape, JFDI!
[12:11] <eroomde> guided descent is the new black now
[12:11] <Babs_> ie you know where you are looking
[12:11] <eroomde> for planetary entry
[12:11] <Babs_> and then it just comes down to debating how good one's eyesight is
[12:11] <SpeedEvil> I note that landings on mars are unregulated.
[12:11] <eroomde> schmetails
[12:11] <GMT> no NOTAMs either
[12:12] <eroomde> what i have observed is this
[12:12] <fsphil> this payload is heading for an annoyingly big forest
[12:12] <Babs_> once DM gets an office on Olympus Mons that will all change
[12:12] <eroomde> if you have money, rules go away
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Quite.
[12:12] <costyn> HixWork: here's our code http://roysmeding.nl/habscience.ino
[12:13] <Martin_G4FUI> Just gone through the 5deg circle and still receiving
[12:13] <Martin_G4FUI> The Pennines will intervene soon . . .
[12:13] <fsphil> go away trees
[12:13] <fsphil> this is where a guided descent would be useful
[12:13] <fsphil> could command it to throttle the chute a bit, speed up the descent
[12:14] <eroomde> or just a freefall with an uplink to deploy
[12:14] <eroomde> and an automatic deployment at 1km if you've not got a signal
[12:14] <fsphil> safer with the pre-deployed one
[12:14] <GMT> at least that forest has plenty of tracks
[12:14] <Martin_G4FUI> Those navy cadets in the US try that kind of thing, don't they?
[12:14] <Babs_> anyone want to see something incredibly light that flies (this is not a joke)
[12:15] <G4MYS-Andy> interesting to see its just over the Slightholme road, I recall running a rabbit flat, about the cross over point 25 years ago while working in the area!
[12:15] <chrisg7ogx> you southampton chappies are putting me to shame! Can't find it, is it rtty?
[12:15] <Babs_> Pah. I'm going to show you anyway. I reckon 15 grams is pretty impressive http://www.wheelspinmodels.co.uk/i/196805/
[12:15] <G4MYS-Andy> It was RTTY long since lost to me I only had good copy for about 25 mins
[12:16] <Martin_G4FUI> Yes it's RTTY 8N1 560 shift
[12:16] <G4MYS-Andy> amazing so far i up north and 4 still tracking very good lads
[12:16] <GMT> Babs: I like the 'Team Black Sheep' videos of them flying around various cities
[12:16] <chrisg7ogx> somebody your way is doing well matbe south downs in the way for me
[12:17] <fsphil> I don't think it's going to miss this forest :(
[12:17] <chrisg7ogx> tks Martin
[12:17] <UpuWork> going for me
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[12:17] <Martin_G4FUI> 50 baud
[12:17] <Lunar_LanderU> coming down quite quick
[12:18] <fsphil> local terrain is about 400m asl
[12:18] <Babs_> its pretty impressive, but I think is passively rather than actively stabilised
[12:18] <eroomde> treeeeeeeee
[12:18] <UpuWork> can still see it
[12:18] <Babs_> passive stabilisation is sooooooo summer 2013
[12:18] <fsphil> nice going UpuWork
[12:18] <fsphil> lies. there was no summer in 2013
[12:19] <G4MYS-Andy> my last good copy in Southampton $$ZN1,357,115321,54.619408,-2.355259,18007.4,8,4.2,-18.875,7423,201,1023*E1E
[12:19] <fsphil> ok, gotta be down now
[12:19] <Martin_G4FUI> lost it
[12:19] <Martin_G4FUI> I can just see the trace
[12:19] <G4MYS-Andy> you did well mate!
[12:19] <fsphil> oh Rob_m0dts still getting lines
[12:19] <UpuWork> M0DTS RXing through the Earths core again
[12:20] <fsphil> 557m...
[12:20] <Martin_G4FUI> Gone
[12:20] <fsphil> just above the trees
[12:20] <UpuWork> in a tree :/
[12:20] <fsphil> near a path anyway
[12:20] <fsphil> definitely down now
[12:20] <UpuWork> can you still see it Rob_m0dts ?
[12:20] <Rob_m0dts> weak trace with me still but no decode now, down.
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[12:21] <chrisg7ogx> it's not a bleep every 30 secs is it? lol
[12:21] <UpuWork> ok cool
[12:21] <UpuWork> who is G4FVP ?
[12:21] <fsphil> hmm.. that might be good news ... possibly not in a tree?
[12:21] <G4MYS-Andy> that scrub look pretty dence !
[12:21] <chrisg7ogx> rob what kit r u using please?
[12:21] <fsphil> what are the odds you'll get some aircraft scatter? :)
[12:21] <Rob_m0dts> G4FVP is at Darlington but maybe on old software version as not showing up.
[12:21] <UpuWork> ah ok
[12:22] <UpuWork> well down to 500 meters they should be able to locate that locally
[12:22] <fsphil> local ground is 400m asl
[12:22] <fsphil> so that's more like 100m
[12:23] <fsphil> wonder how far they are
[12:23] <eroomde> probably miles
[12:23] <mfa298> hopefully they've got a radio reciever with them.
[12:23] <chrisg7ogx> i would like to thank whoever keeps the spacenear.us up to date for next balloon details it's a great help
[12:23] <Martin_G4FUI> here here
[12:24] <UpuWork> welcome
[12:24] <UpuWork> and fsphil sometimes
[12:24] <Rob_m0dts> if i had a couple more dB i would be able to decode! oh well.
[12:24] <UpuWork> how incomplete are the strings ?
[12:24] <Rob_m0dts> last partial decode
[12:24] <Rob_m0dts> $$ZN1,447,121953,54.470047,-1.952863,455.4,10,35l >?ּ
[12:25] <Martin_G4FUI> Nice flight for me - peaked around 47deg el and last decode just over 1000m
[12:25] <GMT> Oh well, that's it for today, see you all tomorrow
[12:25] <Rob_m0dts> odd char thats all decoding.
[12:25] <G4MYS-Andy> Iadmo ir the men who put the ballons up as for me the radio side is interesting and I give my thanks as I ve learnt more about UHF
[12:25] <Rob_m0dts> right i'm off....GL to the recovery team!
[12:25] <eroomde> they'll appreciate it when they arrive there tomorrow
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[12:26] <chrisg7ogx> UHF is very like marriage..
[12:26] <UpuWork> I could fake the last bit but it may mess up their data
[12:26] <UpuWork> its in the woods anyway
[12:26] <chrisg7ogx> Be direct..and get it as high as poss!
[12:26] <mfa298> reading scrollback they were told to leave ~1 hour ago and it looks to be ~50miles in a straight line so it might take them a while to get there
[12:27] <chrisg7ogx> Is that harvesting trees or new one planted on the southern edge of the forrest?
[12:28] <UpuWork> http://goo.gl/maps/2Fsbz
[12:28] <Babs_> those Blade Nano QXs are like something of Minority Report
[12:28] <Babs_> *off
[12:28] <Lunar_LanderU> UpuWork: sarantel GPS order might come up later!
[12:28] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[12:29] <Babs_> and i take it back, may actually be actively stabilised
[12:29] <Jess--M0VBR> UpuWork: could you not fake the last bit under a diff payload name
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[12:29] <Jess--M0VBR> i.e. ZN1_FAKE
[12:31] <LeoBodnar> I have seen one of them they are actively stabilised. If you tilt while props spun up it alters the RPM of motroer
[12:31] <LeoBodnar> motors on opposite sides
[12:31] <Babs_> how the &^% do they do that in 16 grams or so?
[12:32] <Martin_G4FUI> Brampton to Penrith is about 25min Penrith to Scotch Corner about 50min give or take traffic
[12:32] <Babs_> my IMU weighs 6g alone
[12:32] <Babs_> LeoBodnar - haev you seen that actual model
[12:32] <Babs_> ?
[12:32] <Babs_> I have seen some that look like them, quite small but looked a little heavier
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[12:32] <LeoBodnar> It was very similar and the first thing I did I looked at the PCB to see if it has IMU
[12:33] <Babs_> it looks like an IMU doesnt it?#
[12:33] <LeoBodnar> Conclusion was that it had.
[12:33] <Babs_> (well, Babs sees three chips on there and it looks a bit like his anyway)
[12:33] <Babs_> amazing
[12:34] <LeoBodnar> I remember three ICs there, one power controller, one RF and one IMU/MCU
[12:35] <LeoBodnar> I am surprised that I am not surprised!
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[12:35] <LeoBodnar> You start turning a blind eye to tech advancements
[12:37] <Martin_G4FUI> Looking at my fldigi scrollback, my first partial strings had serial numbers 207 to 211 before the serial count seemed to "reset" to zero and start again. What's going on there?
[12:37] <daveake1> Was this before launch?
[12:38] <daveake1> If so they either reset it or changed the batteries
[12:38] <Martin_G4FUI> Not sure, I just spotted the signal on the waterfall and zeroed in on it - it might have still been on the ground I suppose
[12:39] <Martin_G4FUI> In fact string #1 has a lot of zeroes in it
[12:40] <Martin_G4FUI> $$ZN1,1,0,0.000060,p.040000/0.0,0,0.0,0.000,0,0,0*0AEC
[12:41] <UpuWork> Jess--M0VBR good idea
[12:41] <daveake1> OK probably it starts transmitting before it gets GPS
[12:41] <UpuWork> well
[12:41] <daveake1> So that looks like a power up
[12:41] <UpuWork> no I'd have to do a payload doc
[12:41] <UpuWork> and cba
[12:42] <Martin_G4FUI> Ah, daveake1 that makes sense, thanks!
[12:43] <Martin_G4FUI> This string was a couple before : $$ZN1,210,100829,54*95816-2.7325,670.8,9,2415.187,94911,3,0*AD68 So I guess the software was reset
[12:43] <UpuWork> may have reset on lanidng
[12:43] <UpuWork> landing
[12:43] <Lunar_LanderU> btw
[12:44] <UpuWork> it came in quite quick
[12:44] <Lunar_LanderU> "A good idea always beats a supercomputer" Zvi Bern, UCLA
[12:44] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[12:44] <Martin_G4FUI> UpuWork this was around launch time
[12:46] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, https://www.dropbox.com/s/f2lmjc3jx464nbh/IMG_20130628_134537.jpg possible?
[12:46] <fsphil> streetmap of the nearby road shows the trees to be about 10m tall
[12:46] <fsphil> view*
[12:46] <UpuWork> updated with reconstructed packet
[12:46] <gonzo_> the trees there look quite young,, so reachable
[12:47] <fsphil> they've a half km walk or drive down that road
[12:47] <fsphil> it has a gate not sure if it's locked
[12:48] <Alchamist> fsphil: if you look the other side of the road it look like there's a carpark there - so I assume that gate is locked
[12:48] <fsphil> yes indeed
[12:49] <Jess--M0VBR> Babs_: there are always one like these kicking around (not sure on weight) http://www.snelflight.co.uk/QuadPod%20Nano.htm
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[12:49] <fsphil> hopefully fell in a gap between the trees
[12:49] <daveake1> One of mine managed that
[12:49] <daveake1> Brushed one on the way down
[12:50] <gonzo_> thin trunks, covertly sawable
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[12:52] <Babs_> thanks Jess
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[12:55] <Jess--M0VBR> no probs Babs_ I used to fly one of their jumpjets
[12:56] <eroomde> Babs_: how about you build one into a pcb?
[12:56] <eroomde> i was tempted to do this but work can scratch that itch now
[12:56] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/8EHIp0O.jpg
[12:57] <Babs_> eroomde - cool. would save with the wiring. is that your design?
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[12:58] <Babs_> I taught myself surface mount soldering to build a trackuino
[12:58] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/cPTBStu.jpg
[12:58] <Babs_> which was great until after the cost, expense and time i asked someone whether it was legal and found it wasnt :-(
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[12:58] <eroomde> not my design no
[12:58] <eroomde> my hovering thing is heavier
[12:59] <Babs_> so i've been looking for a valid outlet for my smt skills?
[12:59] <eroomde> got an iron?
[13:00] <Babs_> eroomde - is this your hovering thing?
[13:00] <eroomde> nope
[13:00] <Babs_> I mean, its impressive and everything but looks quite heavy
[13:00] <Babs_> imagine flying that thing!
[13:01] <Babs_> those mercury 7 dudes were ballsy
[13:01] <Babs_> eroomde - soldering iron?
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[13:01] <eroomde> do you have one?
[13:01] <Babs_> i have a couple of soldering irons
[13:01] <eroomde> skylon looks heavy you mean?
[13:02] <Babs_> no, i was makiing a gag about the flying bedstead
[13:02] <eroomde> ah
[13:02] <Babs_> which wasn't funny, even before i started explaining it, at which point it becomes the definition of a very unfunny thing
[13:02] <eroomde> i am slow on the uptake today
[13:03] <Babs_> you are digesting too much pork
[13:03] <eroomde> good night and rough morning
[13:03] <LeoBodnar> What was illegal Babs_, building trackuino?
[13:03] <HixWork> maketh the man eroomde
[13:03] <Babs_> I have a 15W soldering iron with a fine tip, managed to surface mount soldering with it just about, although it isnt temperature controlled which makes it not the easiest thing to operate
[13:04] <eroomde> would have been bad anyway but having to drop a friend at heathrow first thing was amplifying
[13:04] <Babs_> ledbodnar. legal to make, legal to operate on the ground, not legal in the air in the UK
[13:05] <LeoBodnar> Ah, APRS?
[13:06] <LeoBodnar> OK, got it
[13:06] <HixWork> Babs_, these guys are cheap but the products seem to be pretty good, they do spares too which is a plus. UK based for quick delivery too http://goo.gl/3Mwxz
[13:06] <Babs_> Going to add it to the wedding list
[13:06] <HixWork> my IMU boards have left GLB now :D
[13:07] <Babs_> "Floral tea towel, chopping board, temperature controlled soldering station, cookery book"
[13:07] <Babs_> she'll never spot it
[13:07] <HixWork> its for creme brulees silly
[13:07] <LeoBodnar> Just TCSS will do
[13:07] <HixWork> very arty creme brulees
[13:07] <Babs_> HixWork - are you coming to the conf? You need to give me 5 mins on PCB design etc., you have the skills
[13:07] <HixWork> *you might want to change the tip
[13:08] <LeoBodnar> Get yourself a stereo microscope
[13:08] <HixWork> Babs_, I am no PCB expert by any stretch
[13:08] <LeoBodnar> for knitting
[13:08] <Babs_> I will throw a scalpel into the wall like Mel Gibson in Braveheart in return
[13:08] <HixWork> I do 3D CAD for a living, I can help with that
[13:08] <gonzo_> it will bounce and add injury to insult!
[13:08] <Babs_> I've got Sketchup, feel free to mock at will
[13:08] <HixWork> there are plenty here more skilled than I with Eagle
[13:09] <HixWork> Babs_, do you have that on your chips ;p
[13:09] <HixWork> though if i can help, of course I will
[13:09] <Babs_> just itnerested if you have a minute
[13:09] <HixWork> sure
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[13:09] <Babs_> ta
[13:10] <HixWork> best thing to do is download eagle and then play with open source designs imho
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[13:11] <HixWork> LeoBodnar, save money on expensive bino scopes http://goo.gl/I77Mt
[13:12] <LeoBodnar> Haha, might get two of them
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[13:15] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003XDQUQE/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=14Q000490DHQQZRM8E9X&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=358549767&pf_rd_i=468294 Has anybody got this exact backup tracker?
[13:15] <daveake1> I've used one. They just about work.
[13:16] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, i know cuddykid uses these http://goo.gl/Nll3k
[13:16] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork, Does that thing work by replying with location when sent a text message?
[13:16] <HixWork> yarp
[13:17] <daveake1> The one I used, you call it then it texts back
[13:17] <ibanezmatt13> Ideally, I need to know the exact dimensions of it for this box.
[13:17] <ibanezmatt13> I can't find anywhere on the web
[13:17] <HixWork> you can pack it out with small bits of foam surely?
[13:18] <ibanezmatt13> well yeah I could do that, do you know what the maximum dimensions it could be are?
[13:18] <ibanezmatt13> roughly
[13:18] <HixWork> ahh ebay one Dimension 77*45*24(mm)
[13:18] <ibanezmatt13> 77*45*24
[13:18] <ibanezmatt13> ah just about to say
[13:18] <HixWork> you did :)
[13:19] <ibanezmatt13> thanks HixWork! :)
[13:19] <HixWork> nps
[13:19] <LeoBodnar> ibanezmatt13: it's rubbish mine never even connected to the GSM network
[13:19] <ibanezmatt13> oh
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[13:19] <HixWork> you live in the costwolds don't you? is there a GSM network there?
[13:20] <ibanezmatt13> I think it's worth a try
[13:20] <HixWork> whenever i used to be in the silverstone locale there was blackout
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[13:20] <LeoBodnar> We are just discovering electricity here!
[13:20] <HixWork> dont trust that stuff
[13:20] <HixWork> it'll never replace gas and horses
[13:22] <Babs_> ibanzezmatt13 - i used one twice. once it worked, once no signal. you can see it in the payload photo i sent you yesterday
[13:22] <Babs_> careful what sim you use. i couldnt get it to work with 3, but its good with vodafone
[13:23] <Babs_> ibanezmatt13 - also, it comes in a foam packaging insert that you can simply remove and insert into your box so you dont have any more box dilemmas
[13:23] <HixWork> hopefully my GSM boards will arrive start of next week, then I'll have a backup
[13:24] <HixWork> *subject to my design working of course
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[13:27] <fsphil> Temperature, External: 127.0 °C
[13:28] <fsphil> habanero is on fire
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[13:29] <daveake1> Reminds me of that Simpsons song ...
[13:29] <daveake1> "12 yards long, 2 lanes wide, 65 tons of American pride! Canyonero! Canyonero! Top of the line in utility sports, Unexplained fires are a matter for the courts! Canyonero!"
[13:30] <ibanezmatt13> Babs_, Thanks
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[13:33] <BenBancroft> Ok any news on our payload
[13:33] <BenBancroft> We are on the way now
[13:35] <HixWork> there is one bad word but I had to share the screengrab of this twitter conv http://goo.gl/WZNZI
[13:37] <mfa298> BenBancroft: how close are you to where it's landed ?
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[13:40] <HixWork> I think they mean they have just left mfa298
[13:40] <daveake1> wtf
[13:40] <daveake1> really?
[13:40] <mfa298> HixWork: that's what I fear
[13:40] <daveake1> and it's 5 hours battery life in the payload?
[13:40] <HixWork> thats some relaxed HABing if it is so
[13:41] <daveake1> I've done some relaxed ones. Ones I haven't chased.
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[13:41] <mfa298> sounds like we need a chasing howto on the wiki. Unless it's predicted to land in your back garden leave immediately after you've launched so you can hear the payload as it descends
[13:41] <daveake1> good idea well volunteered :)
[13:41] <daveake1> actually I'll do one
[13:42] <Jess--M0VBR> step 1 : Chase the damn balloon
[13:42] <UpuWork> haha
[13:42] <UpuWork> amazing
[13:42] <Jess--M0VBR> step 2 : See step 1
[13:42] <mfa298> Requirements: a radio that works
[13:42] <daveake1> step 3: you didn't read step 2 did you?
[13:42] <daveake1> AIUI they have an SDR only
[13:42] <daveake1> and no Yagi
[13:43] <Jess--M0VBR> Step 4 : what are you still doing here?
[13:43] <mfa298> 2nd: Requirements, charger for your phone/laptop that works in your vehicle
[13:43] <HixWork> 1st requirement: Transport
[13:43] <UpuWork> oh chase car o nthe map
[13:43] <UpuWork> confirming they have left
[13:44] <mfa298> Post recovery: Fish and Chips
[13:44] <UpuWork> if the batteries are 5 hours
[13:44] <x-f> 8.28 km/h?
[13:44] <UpuWork> 1hour 15 left
[13:44] <HixWork> panic over they are right on it. i wait ermmm scrollwheel. oh errr scratch that
[13:45] <daveake1> lol
[13:45] <UpuWork> time in current traffic 1 hour 2 mins
[13:45] Action: UpuWork gets the pop corn
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[13:45] <daveake1> beat me to it
[13:45] <daveake1> Ben Step on it
[13:45] <UpuWork> payload battery life 5 hours BenBancroft ?
[13:46] <HixWork> he's hardly likely to step onm the payload from that distance, oh, yeah i get ya
[13:46] <BenBancroft> Hello
[13:46] <BenBancroft> On my way
[13:46] <BenBancroft> Im on map?
[13:46] <daveake1> yes
[13:46] <UpuWork> you are yes
[13:46] <HixWork> a map
[13:46] <daveake1> How much battery life in that tracker?
[13:46] <UpuWork> are you walking ?
[13:46] <daveake1> You have 1 hour driving to get there
[13:46] <HixWork> not sure its the same OS map though :)
[13:47] <BenBancroft> It has a 4 aa lithium enisizers
[13:47] <UpuWork> did you do a run time test
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[13:48] <Jess--M0VBR> I wonder what effect being cooled down and then warmed up again will have had on the battery life
[13:48] <daveake1> nothing
[13:48] <HixWork> ooh this is like Apollo XIII
[13:48] <daveake1> So long as it's warm now it's fine
[13:48] <HixWork> except not really
[13:49] <daveake1> Main Bus B undervolt?
[13:49] <daveake1> Yeah that's coming
[13:49] <HixWork> M6 underspeed
[13:49] <x-f> chase car no moving at 96.372 km/h
[13:49] <HixWork> gimbal. sorry gridlock
[13:50] <Jess--M0VBR> I did wonder, had a horrible thought that the capacity loss in cold temps may be a permanent loss (i.e. not recoverable when they warmed up)
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[13:52] <HixWork> get thy foot down lad
[13:52] <BenBancroft> Ok 3g keeps going
[13:53] <BenBancroft> Im not actually driving :p
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[13:54] <HixWork> give the donkey amnother carrot then
[13:56] <daveake1> BenBancroft Do you know how long the batteries should last?
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[14:00] <mfa298> looks like three isn't the right network for chasing up north.
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[14:04] <HixWork> Genius http://goo.gl/zB0Sv
[14:04] <Jess--M0VBR> voda and cellnet are useless in lincs
[14:04] <Jess--M0VBR> or should I say o2
[14:05] <daveake1> "3" is normally the best for a 3G signal
[14:06] <daveake1> Even so we had lots of dropouts in the flight I did up there
[14:06] <daveake1> and I have a 3G aerial on the car which helps
[14:07] <Jess--M0VBR> on the titan chase we only dropped out twice in 4 hours (using laptop integrated antenna)
[14:07] <Jess--M0VBR> both times were in valleys surrounded by trees
[14:08] <mfa298> I suspect most networks aren't that good up there
[14:10] <HixWork> whats the story with Habanero? is it the habitat bug again?
[14:11] <Lunar_LanderU> LOOOL
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[14:12] <daveake1> Yeah, down south dropouts are rare
[14:14] <HixWork> LeoBodnar, I assume you aren't in the office today :)
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[14:17] <Lunar_LanderU> I think what we see on spacenear is an ublox getting lock
[14:18] <Lunar_LanderU> when they get lock here, I get a slightly west longitude reading and about 30°N and 13 km altitude
[14:20] <UpuWork> lunar is correct
[14:20] <UpuWork> they need a filter on habitat
[14:20] <UpuWork> invalid lock = < 4 sats
[14:22] <eroomde> you can get a position with 3 sats
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[14:28] <Martin_G4FUI> mfa298 we do have running water up here you know! :)
[14:29] <number10> lots of it
[14:29] <Martin_G4FUI> We are just working our way through the barter system ...
[14:30] <Martin_G4FUI> I saw a "horseless carriage" just the other day!
[14:31] <Jess--M0VBR> I have seen a few carriageless horses
[14:31] <daveake> The horse escaped?
[14:32] <Martin_G4FUI> Probably exchanged for a pack of Energiser Lithiums
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[14:33] <mfa298> Martin_G4FUI: I was looking that the area around the landing site and it looked to be more trees than houses - Similar to the New Forest which is also bad for 3G.
[14:33] <Martin_G4FUI> But 3G is a bit hit and miss up here, you'd have thought they would have the major roads like M6/A66 well covereed wouldn't you?
[14:34] <Martin_G4FUI> Yes, I remember a recent flight which ended up a very long way up a very large tree in the Forest of Dean area ...
[14:35] <Martin_G4FUI> Was it ever recovered?
[14:35] <ibanezmatt13> does zenith have a backup gsm tracker?
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[14:43] <gonzo_> I had one of those. Big tree, high up and shee side of a quary to climb. That one got left as an offering to the gods of hab
[14:44] <fsphil> totally loony idea: http://www.southgatearc.org/news/june2013/uk_radio_ham_plans_lunar_cubesat.htm
[14:44] <fsphil> love the disk ... "REWARD IF FOUND"
[14:45] <fsphil> if someone finds it on the moon, they deserve a heck of a reward
[14:47] <daveake> lol
[14:48] <fsphil> that and that fact that it would probably vapourise on impact
[14:48] <fsphil> which is a kind of landing
[14:49] <Babs_> NASA will love it if one of them wipes out the Apollo landers
[14:50] <HixWork> they're not there remeber Babs_ they are in a studio
[14:50] <fsphil> turns out it was too tricky to fake it on earth, so they built the studio on the moon
[14:50] <Babs_> I think those discs have more chance of being in a studio than the apollo landers
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[14:51] <Babs_> I guess its what near earth orbit needs really
[14:51] <Babs_> lots more random uncontrolled objects in it
[14:51] <Jess--M0VBR> forget the ones on the moon, wouldn't a batch of extra sats in low earth orbit using 434 possibly cause problems for us
[14:52] <fsphil> amsat should do a proper lunar repeater though, that'd be cool. make it easier for smaller stations who can't really do passive EME
[14:52] <fsphil> 435mhz + 2400mhz it says
[14:52] <Jess--M0VBR> my apologies, I read it as 434
[14:53] <HixWork> You too can own a piece of space debris orbiting at over 17,000 mph. It could be your disc which takes out a future space program
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[14:54] <Babs_> heh
[14:54] <HixWork> suppose at least you could pay NASA to track your debris
[14:55] <Martin_G4FUI> I see that some continental amateurs have actually communicated via passive ISS bounce!
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[14:56] <gonzo_> aircraft scatter is regularly used by microwavers, so it's prob just the natural progression
[14:56] <fsphil> I see the effect of aircraft scatter quite often
[14:56] <fsphil> I'm not far from an airport
[14:56] <Brace> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1677943140/send-your-own-pocket-spacecraft-on-a-mission-to-th
[14:57] <Brace> HixWork: he talks about the stuff released in earth orbit returing to earth
[14:58] <HixWork> hmm
[14:58] <Martin_G4FUI> Nicely written up here http://www.dj5ar.de/
[14:58] <HixWork> cant see it myself
[14:59] <ibanezmatt13> does anybody know where I can get some 25mm thick styrofoam, but not a massive sheet of it?
[14:59] <fsphil> I've seen rain scatter on my wifi -- with the dipole on the roof reception in the house is poor, except when it's raining
[14:59] <fsphil> quite a neat effect
[14:59] <number10> I have only seen big sheets ibanezmatt13
[15:00] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok. I need a little bit more you see, and they're not exactly cheap :( Oh well
[15:00] <Babs_> ibanzematt13, where are you located?
[15:01] <ibanezmatt13> Wigan
[15:01] <ibanezmatt13> Near Manchester UK
[15:01] <Martin_G4FUI> If I monitor GB3ANG on 2m I get almost constant a/c reflections and to a lesser extent from GB3NGI
[15:01] <Babs_> I know WIgan
[15:01] <Babs_> home of the pie
[15:01] <ibanezmatt13> Babs_, really? Yes!
[15:01] <ibanezmatt13> How do you?
[15:02] <Babs_> if by any chance you or your parents are going near wolverhampton, my mother has a big box of it she is looking after for me.
[15:02] <ibanezmatt13> 25mm styrofoam?
[15:02] <HixWork> pie
[15:02] <Babs_> you would be welcome to any of it if you were nearby
[15:02] <Babs_> 10mm.
[15:02] <Babs_> but you can layer it up
[15:03] <fsphil> Martin_G4FUI: I can't even get GB3NGI
[15:03] <fsphil> I'm about 50km from it .. with a mountain in between fair enough
[15:03] <ibanezmatt13> Babs_, That would be fantastic! I'll have a word with my Dad as he does a lot of travelling around the country. Thank you very much :)
[15:03] <Babs_> no worries
[15:05] <ibanezmatt13> Babs_, Thank you very much for the offer, but my Dad says it's a little too far really for where he's going. I appreciate the offer :)
[15:06] <ibanezmatt13> what's the cheapest place I can get styrofoam?
[15:06] <Jess--M0VBR> are there any building sites near you, they use it as insulation
[15:07] <Jess--M0VBR> ask if they have a broken sheet
[15:07] <Jess--M0VBR> only thing you may have to do is remove a foil layer
[15:07] <ibanezmatt13> not much building going on around here at the minute
[15:08] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.hindleys.com/index.php/materials/plastics-foam/sheet/styrofoam-high-density-polystyrene-foam/styrofoam-sheet-600mm-x-1245mm-x-25mm.html That's the best I can find really
[15:08] <Babs_> Poole's Pies in wigan will have some foam insulation
[15:09] <Jess--M0VBR> builders merchants (jewsons etc) may be able to do a deal on damaged sheets
[15:09] <Babs_> I know my pie companies
[15:09] <Jess--M0VBR> Babs_: when you first said about the Pie I was thinking you had missed the R off Pier
[15:09] <Babs_> I never joke about my pies Jess
[15:09] <Babs_> (said in a Q voice)
[15:11] <Martin_G4FUI> I thought all pies came from Melton Mowbray :)
[15:11] <Jess--M0VBR> only the decent pork pies
[15:11] Action: ibanezmatt13 really wants a pie now...
[15:12] <Martin_G4FUI> Ahhh ... Mr Pavlov and his dogs !
[15:13] <Jess--M0VBR> I fancy a Pie too, but I've just had a peanut bitter sandwich
[15:13] <Jess--M0VBR> butter rather
[15:14] <Jess--M0VBR> I dread to think how peanut bitter would taste
[15:14] <fsphil> bitter I think
[15:15] <Babs_> cold pie from melton, the best hot pie from Bedwas
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[15:15] <ibanezmatt13> Martin_G4FUI, you do Biology?
[15:16] <Martin_G4FUI> Not guilty m'lud
[15:16] <fsphil> well technically we all do biology
[15:17] <SpeedEvil> even full sheets aren't that spendy
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[15:17] <WILLdude> Hi
[15:17] <Jess--M0VBR> when oh when will the wind dir shift so that a launch from here doesn't go between north and east (3 weeks so far)
[15:18] <mfa298> Jess--M0VBR: probably when the weather changes making it impossible to launch
[15:20] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, B&Q http://goo.gl/gCZ0V £2.18 25mm
[15:20] <Jess--M0VBR> we had 8 possible launches this month, so far 6 have been 100% landing in the north sea (and it's not looking good for this sunday's either)
[15:21] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork, That is an excellent price but surely that's not going to be strong enough or be able to provide the insulation we need for our flight?
[15:21] <HixWork> why, are you launching an anvil?
[15:22] <HixWork> thought you just needed a bit of spare to finish the payload off?
[15:23] <ibanezmatt13> Idea: I've since had a complete rethink of my box which requires a new big sheet anyway. But, I may need some of that cheap material for spacing inside. So I'll get some of that, thank you
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[15:23] <ibanezmatt13> By the time I finish I might as well launch an anvil :P
[15:23] <HixWork> you can get a 2400 x 1200 x 25 for £6.98 http://goo.gl/XUYJw
[15:24] <HixWork> and B&Q are like speed-cameras, bloody everywhere
[15:24] <ibanezmatt13> looks good. I think the smaller size will be ok :) Shame they don't sell styrofoam
[15:24] <fsphil> not as bad as homebase
[15:24] <fsphil> there seem to be more of them here than B+Q
[15:25] <HixWork> it'll do surely?
[15:25] <HixWork> think the styrofoam thing is just the cutting cleanliness.
[15:25] <ibanezmatt13> If it's identical to sytrofoam how come it's like half the price?
[15:25] <HixWork> you could make a hotwire cutter
[15:26] <HixWork> I'm not sure but for HAB i think its mechanical properties are easily up to the task
[15:26] <HixWork> hmmm CNC hotwired payload
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[15:26] <ibanezmatt13> I'll pop into B&Q tomorrow and have a look. If it looks decent I'll get it and let you know :)
[15:26] <HixWork> CNC is better than bacon!
[15:27] <fsphil> how dare you
[15:27] <eroomde> not always true
[15:27] <HixWork> :D
[15:27] <eroomde> we just got some cnc'd calibration nozzles from a nice delivery motorbike man
[15:27] <eroomde> more firings next week
[15:27] <Jess--M0VBR> not sure if it helps anyone else but for the titan payloads we are using polystyrene shipping containers designed for mugs
[15:27] <HixWork> shoulnd't he have had pizza?
[15:28] <fsphil> cnc'd pizza
[15:28] <HixWork> swarf and pinapple
[15:28] <fsphil> delivered by quadcopter
[15:28] <HixWork> railgun
[15:28] <eroomde> sshfs is amazing
[15:28] <eroomde> i have always known it has existed
[15:29] <eroomde> and never used it
[15:29] <eroomde> and now i am using it
[15:29] <eroomde> and it's very good
[15:29] <fsphil> oh man you've missed out
[15:29] <eroomde> and i should have been using it for ages
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yigRgG_NIyU - more nozzle porn
[15:29] <eroomde> i loose man-days to trying to remeber file paths on remote machines for scp
[15:30] <HixWork> hmm chase is within 3 miles of the payload
[15:30] <fsphil> scp is a pain if any files have a space in the name
[15:30] <fsphil> I like to sshfs my music directory sometimes, when I wanna play some tunes
[15:30] <HixWork> is sshfs a file explorer for *-unix?
[15:30] <fsphil> even better than that
[15:31] <fsphil> you can mount a directory on a remote machine locally, via ssh
[15:31] <HixWork> oh nice
[15:31] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: that's wonderful
[15:31] <eroomde> such a think could save my years
[15:33] <HixWork> ahh that CNC pipe bender
[15:33] <HixWork> twas on hackvana t'other day
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[15:35] <HixWork> Zenith loks like it'll be an arse to find with an RTLSDR
[15:35] <HixWork> or the Mk1 eyeball for tha matter
[15:37] <mfa298> looks like it's going to be a fair trek as well, if you're using radio DF that's when having a portable radio is much better
[15:37] <fsphil> hopefully they have an exact coordinate
[15:37] <fsphil> if they made it in time
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[15:38] <HixWork> hopefully they arent reliant on google maps
[15:38] <Jess--M0VBR> also bear in mind that their 5 hour battery life expired 30+ minutes ago
[15:38] <HixWork> i heard they had no yagi
[15:38] <fsphil> yea they can't do DF
[15:38] <HixWork> Mk1 eyeball it is then
[15:38] <Martin_G4FUI> Well every flight has lessons to learn, it seems ...
[15:39] <mfa298> I'm assuming they're using the last coordinates from spacenear.us - I'm not sure they uploaded any packets for the payload
[15:39] <HixWork> 1. do not wait until it lands to set off on the chase
[15:39] <M0DTS-P> Drat, i knew i should have put the extra 3 yagis up...... :-)
[15:40] <mfa298> I've done crude DF with just the rubber duck on the 817 (using my body as an antenuator
[15:40] <Martin_G4FUI> As the boys pretty well went past the end of my road en route, I could have lent them a "proper" radio (with 20:20 hindsight of course!)
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[15:41] <HixWork> ooh hello
[15:42] <Babs_> Finding a payload sans yagi is a far more joyful experience http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8858695548/in/set-72157632733154985
[15:42] <Jess--M0VBR> I have a straight dipole which can be used for df (end on = weakest signal) done from 2 positions it can give a decent position
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[15:44] <Martin_G4FUI> A handheld HB9CV can be a fairly decent DF aerial
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[15:46] <Jess--M0VBR> fresh updates on chase vehicle
[15:48] <mfa298> hmmm, I wonder if they're heading for the predicted landing spot, that might not work so well
[15:48] <fsphil> no
[15:49] <mfa298> might need to dig a 400m hole if they expect to find it there
[15:51] <Martin_G4FUI> OK you've lost me - what's the problem with their plan?
[15:51] <mfa298> the predicted landing spot assumes ground is at 0m ASL
[15:52] <Willdude123> Hello
[15:52] <Martin_G4FUI> Ah ...
[15:52] <Jess--M0VBR> they are heading for landing at 0m when land is as 400m
[15:52] <Martin_G4FUI> Hence the 400m hole!
[15:52] <mfa298> the correct location will be where the last position report is (or close)
[15:52] <mattbrejza> no contact with chase?
[15:52] <Martin_G4FUI> Thanks, I'll add that to my list of "lessons learned by proxy"!
[15:55] <eroomde> yes it's not really clever enough to intersec terrain like that
[15:56] <eroomde> and i vaguely recall that when we/someone else looked for a global terrai database there wasn't anything particularly good or with useful enough resolution that was freely available
[15:56] <eroomde> that might have changed
[15:56] <mfa298> The trick is to be close enough to underneath it as it lands so you can get position information.
[15:57] <mfa298> they might have been lucky with this one as someone got data with it pretty low.
[15:57] <mfa298> which might also mean they're unlucky as it could be stuck in a tree
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[15:57] <LeoBodnar> There was a decent radar map a few years ago, I think one of Shuttle missions did 30x30m radar scan
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Well, the SRTM dataset has been around for _ages_ - and gives 90m imagery
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> 30m in the states
[15:58] <Willdude123> Ah jesus
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> There is basically nothing better yet.
[15:58] <eroomde> i think we looked at that and it wasn't as good as i first thought
[15:58] <Willdude123> avrdude: stk500_getsync(): not in sync: resp=0x00
[15:58] <eroomde> it was definitely the shuttle rdara data that i had in mind
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> It does have some voids.
[15:58] <eroomde> Willdude123: check it's on the right comm port
[15:58] <Willdude123> It is.
[15:58] <eroomde> check it's got power
[15:59] <Willdude123> Of course it's plugged in.
[15:59] <Jess--M0VBR> check there is nothing else feeding data into the serial line on the arduino
[15:59] <Willdude123> Yep.
[16:00] <Willdude123> Nothing else.
[16:00] <LeoBodnar> http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/
[16:00] <Willdude123> ffs
[16:02] <Jess--M0VBR> ftdi lead plugged in backwards (I've done it)
[16:02] <LeoBodnar> I remember using it to create a bump map for x-plane in 2004 or so and it worked beautifully
[16:02] <Martin_G4FUI> Well reading between the lines then, I tracked almost the entire flight as I was getting recognisable strings right from 1 to 442 when it was just over 1000m, and the last partial I had was 447 which seems to be pretty much the last gasp
[16:03] <mfa298> Martin_G4FUI: that's pretty impressive
[16:03] <Martin_G4FUI> I'm "right chuffed"!
[16:03] <Willdude123> Jess--M0VBR: I've taken the ftdi lead out.
[16:04] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: hmm that data doesn't look as bad as i remember
[16:04] <eroomde> thanks
[16:04] <LeoBodnar> nps
[16:04] <Willdude123> My jumper wires are extremely tempremental.
[16:04] <Jess--M0VBR> Willdude123: it was just a thought based on mistakes I had made in the past
[16:05] <Willdude123> Oh ffs why isn't this uploading?
[16:06] <Jess--M0VBR> try hitting the reset on the arduino just after it finishes compiling, it could be that your connections aren't triggering the required reset to run the bootloader
[16:06] <Willdude123> It resets, but retains the code.
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[16:07] <Jess--M0VBR> check and double check your data lines then
[16:07] <Willdude123> Data lines?
[16:07] <Jess--M0VBR> tx & rx on the arduino
[16:08] <Willdude123> Nothing on them.
[16:08] <Jess--M0VBR> I mean check that they are connected to your programming lead
[16:09] <Jess--M0VBR> assuming you are programming via the serial connection
[16:09] <Willdude123> What as in over USB?
[16:10] <Willdude123> my arduino is definetly connected.
[16:10] <Willdude123> Urgh.
[16:10] <Jess--M0VBR> its usually usb --> ftdi chip --> arduino
[16:10] <Jess--M0VBR> between the ftdi chip and the arduino is serial data
[16:10] <Willdude123> Wait wa?
[16:10] <Willdude123> I'm not using my ftdi cable.
[16:11] <eroomde> the older arduinos have ftdi chips aboard them, on the pcb itself
[16:11] <eroomde> the newer ones have a usb-peripheraled avr doing the same job
[16:11] <Jess--M0VBR> aaah
[16:11] <Willdude123> Ah right. So check to see if my arduino has had it's ftdi chip come off?
[16:12] <fsphil> they don't just come off
[16:12] <eroomde> do any of the rx/rx led's flickr when you try to program?
[16:12] <eroomde> i suspect not given that error
[16:12] <eroomde> but just for thoroughness
[16:13] <Willdude123> Com3 already in use.
[16:14] <Willdude123> It isn't.
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[16:14] <eroomde> which operating system are you using?
[16:14] <eroomde> i guess com gives it away
[16:14] <eroomde> sorry ignore that q Willdude123
[16:15] <Willdude123> WTF happened^^^
[16:15] <Willdude123> In that nick join.
[16:15] <Willdude123> Anyway.
[16:15] <Willdude123> Rebot.
[16:15] <Babs_> Willdude123. My best result in terms of eliminating the problem is to disconnect the arduino, pull all of the wires out of the arduino (put little bits of numbered tape on it so rewiring is easy), restart the computer, replug in the arduino, seclect your com port, select the type of arduino you have and go from there
[16:16] <Babs_> it you label the connectors it will take 3 mins
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[16:20] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:22] <fsphil> yes
[16:23] <daveake> WILLdude, If you're running Windows, it may have decided your Arduino/GPS is a serial mouse. If so disable the mouse in Device Manager
[16:23] <daveake> If you're using a sensible O/S this doesn't apply
[16:23] <Lunar_Lander> actually there was an interesting thing
[16:24] <LeoBodnar> Does floating foil balloon eventually descends due to gas leak ?
[16:24] <Lunar_Lander> FTDI+AVR+ublox once was recognized as Trackball by Windows
[16:24] <Lunar_Lander> and that seems to happen sometimes
[16:24] <Lunar_Lander> when you google that
[16:24] <daveake> Yes it's a silly MS thing they should have removed that a decade ago
[16:24] <fsphil> you can't even buy serial mice these days
[16:24] <fsphil> nobody makes them
[16:25] <mattbrejza> as in ps/2?
[16:25] <fsphil> pre-ps/2
[16:25] <fsphil> RS232
[16:25] <LeoBodnar> Proper serial mouse
[16:25] <mattbrejza> was wondering which one you ment
[16:25] <mattbrejza> ps/2 is still serial :P
[16:25] <mattbrejza> just not rs232 serial
[16:25] <fsphil> well it has a clock and a data line
[16:25] <mattbrejza> still serial
[16:25] <fsphil> so it's kinda parallel :)
[16:25] <fsphil> yea
[16:26] <LeoBodnar> One bit parallel then
[16:26] <fsphil> all my machines still have PS/2 mice
[16:26] <daveake> ditto
[16:27] <daveake> Which means I can use my lovely IBM keyboards
[16:27] <LeoBodnar> beauty
[16:27] <daveake> click clack clack click
[16:27] <LeoBodnar> Washable too
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[16:28] <arko> Model M!
[16:28] <arko> best keyboards ever made
[16:28] <Martin_G4FUI> Coffee proof?
[16:28] <Jess--M0VBR> snap, old IBM ps2 keyboard here (datestamp of 1987)
[16:28] <daveake> Best not to investigate the ecosystem surviving under the keys too closely
[16:28] <Martin_G4FUI> Quatermass springs to mind ...
[16:28] <LeoBodnar> Are they looking back at you daveake ?
[16:28] <daveake> Lots of springs
[16:29] <daveake> Probably!
[16:29] <arko> those keyboards were pretty damn heavy too
[16:29] <daveake> yup
[16:29] <LeoBodnar> Coiled cords?
[16:29] <daveake> yup
[16:29] <LeoBodnar> Approve
[16:29] <daveake> I have a spare in case this one dies before I do
[16:29] <daveake> Unlikely
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[16:30] <Jess--M0VBR> 2 spare keyboards 1 spare lead
[16:30] <arko> i forgot the company, but someone actually started a company and bought all the IBM keyboard molds
[16:30] <arko> so you can still get parts and what not
[16:30] <Jess--M0VBR> any other keyboard lasts 6 months daily use with me
[16:30] <arko> i think they make a full keyboard too
[16:31] <LeoBodnar> We had an IBM technician to come around on site and service/repair a keyboard within 4 hours.
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[16:31] <LeoBodnar> AS/400 but keyboards are almost the same
[16:31] <arko> wow
[16:32] <LeoBodnar> All gone now
[16:33] <Martin_G4FUI> Never mind, Window$ * will have us all using touch screens!
[16:33] <Martin_G4FUI> Windows 8 that should have been - stupid damn Logitech k/b!
[16:34] <LeoBodnar> No punchcards, disk packs, twin coax tockering, chainprinters, dumb terminals :-\
[16:34] <LeoBodnar> OS/2, all gone
[16:34] <Martin_G4FUI> Luxury! I used to dream of having those ... !
[16:35] <LeoBodnar> tokenring that was
[16:35] <Martin_G4FUI> I thought you'd invented a new verb ...
[16:35] <LeoBodnar> Mainframes, calling an operator to delete your job... Need cuppa to cheer up.
[16:36] <Martin_G4FUI> I expect most folk think that a PDP-11 is a form from the Inland Revenue
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[16:38] <craag> Hehe I went to a conference where a guy had a PDP-11 set up, was encouraging people to try and work out the boot sequence!
[16:38] <LeoBodnar> Lol. Do modern supercomputers have a console with bus lights, hex switches and big IPL button.
[16:39] <Martin_G4FUI> Kids these days just don't know they are born!
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[16:41] <craag> Ended up trying to look at the first few lines of one of the manpages for the secondary disk unit driver, had to print the entire thing out on a ribbon printer!
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[16:42] <mfa298> LeoBodnar: unfortunately these days I think most super computers are just racks of standard servers with a fast interconnect (like infiniband) and they're probably more unstable
[16:43] <craag> Navigating unix without less, cat, and other core utils is painful.
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[16:43] <craag> Albeit strangely satisfying.
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[16:48] <Qeeet> hi
[16:49] <craag> Hi Qeeet
[16:50] <SpeedEvil> craag: echo * in place of ls is not fun
[16:51] <craag> Works though! I'm playing around with a javascript PDP-11 emulator now..
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[17:02] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: ping
[17:03] <LeoBodnar> here
[17:03] <eroomde> so i followed that link
[17:04] <eroomde> and randomly donloaded a dataset for the 1 degree grid that starts just south of the isle of wight
[17:04] <eroomde> and it's really nice data!
[17:04] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/byx752368jtzluw/shuttleradarwight.png
[17:04] <LeoBodnar> Told ya!
[17:04] <eroomde> quicky python script to pull the data out
[17:05] <arko> woah, where'd you get the data?
[17:05] <eroomde> http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/version2_1/
[17:05] <eroomde> shuttle rdara
[17:05] <eroomde> strm3 folder
[17:05] <eroomde> but read the documentation folder first
[17:05] <arko> neato
[17:05] <eroomde> specifically strm_topo.pdf
[17:05] <eroomde> so Randomskk are you about?
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[17:15] <arko> wow, go google, i was about to send an email and i mentioned an attachement and it asked me if i was sure i want to send it out without an attachement
[17:15] <arko> i love the future!
[17:16] <Willdude123> The NSA might find that feature useful.
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[17:16] <Willdude123> When you mention terrorism, it should ask you if you're sure you don't want to send it without protection from the NSA.
[17:17] <x-f> When you mention terrorism, it is already too late.
[17:17] <arko> ^^
[17:17] <arko> when you mention anything it's too late
[17:17] <eroomde> when
[17:17] <arko> SO BRAVE
[17:18] <eroomde> i didn't finish the sentence because it was already too late
[17:18] <arko> :P
[17:18] <LeoBodnar> I haven't even started mine!
[17:18] <arko> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrOZllbNarw
[17:18] <Willdude123> Having troubles commenting the NTX2 code. I don't understand much of it.
[17:18] <arko> one of my favorite scenes
[17:18] <LeoBodnar> Bring the precogs
[17:20] <Randomskk> eroomde: yes
[17:20] Action: mfa298 watches the black helicopters heading towards basingstoke
[17:21] <Randomskk> eroomde: I am for a short while yet
[17:21] <Randomskk> but graduate tomorrow and fly out to canada sunday morning
[17:21] <Randomskk> then canoeing down the yukon so no contact at all for two weeks
[17:22] <arko> thats awesome!
[17:22] <Randomskk> then a couple of weeks in vancouver with intermittent contact
[17:23] <arko> hop down to LA
[17:23] <arko> no big deal
[17:24] Nick change: KYLEYANKAN -> KyleYankan
[17:24] <Randomskk> :P
[17:25] <eroomde> Randomskk: did you see my dropbox thing?
[17:25] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/byx752368jtzluw/shuttleradarwight.png
[17:26] <eroomde> using the openly available shuttle earth height data
[17:26] <eroomde> bring this up wrt knowing where flight paths intersect ground
[17:26] <Randomskk> oh nice
[17:26] <Randomskk> yea I'd seen the shuttle height data before but never toyed with it
[17:26] <eroomde> for example today's flight landed somewhere about 400m ASL so the predicted landing spot was pretty off, in difficult terrain
[17:26] <eroomde> well, that was about 5 mins of python to get the pic
[17:26] <eroomde> it's in a really easy format
[17:27] <eroomde> and in a sensible place on the server
[17:27] <Randomskk> p.s. topology[x,y] = val if val != -32768 else None
[17:27] <eroomde> sensible generable filenames to wget and so on
[17:27] <Randomskk> yea, very nice
[17:27] <eroomde> yes yes, was a bit hacky as i didn't read the spec properly first time
[17:27] <eroomde> so was getting random points in the earth's core
[17:28] <eroomde> changed
[17:28] <eroomde> didn;t know about topology[x,y] tho
[17:28] <eroomde> thanks
[17:28] <Randomskk> that's just numpy isn't it
[17:28] <Jess--M0VBR> do we know whether zenith has been recovered?
[17:29] <eroomde> yes, it's assuming numpy namespace
[17:29] <Randomskk> I mean indexing with [x, y]
[17:30] <eroomde> i had always done it clunkily
[17:30] <eroomde> now i'm enlightened
[17:31] <Randomskk> oh man :P you should read the chapter from that python for data analysis on numpy indexing, it's mental
[17:31] <mfa298> Jess--M0VBR: I'm not aware of any updates from them
[17:31] <Randomskk> you can do all the indexing
[17:31] <eroomde> i haven't yet
[17:32] <eroomde> but i've got it saved for a rainy day
[17:32] <eroomde> it happens to be raining
[17:32] <eroomde> but i don;t feel like it today
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[17:52] <arko> ooo
[17:52] <arko> new sublime text 2 beta
[17:52] <arko> new sublime text 3* beta
[17:52] <arko> shiny
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[17:59] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[18:03] <HixPad> Ping anyone
[18:03] <gonzo_> pong everyone
[18:04] <HixPad> Cool colloquy was being a Ming
[18:04] Action: arko dances
[18:04] <HixPad> Mong
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[18:05] <arko> i was wondering how a program would go 13th century on you
[18:05] <HixPad> Heh
[18:07] <HixPad> So Randomskk has a cool trip coming up I see. Jealous. Plus the Vancouver bit is nice too, my friend emigrated there. Love that city. And I don't do cities really
[18:07] <arko> Victoria is very nice too
[18:07] <fsphil> every city has good and bad bits
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[18:11] <HixPad> Apart from Coventry
[18:13] <arko> http://ww2.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/ISS-DATV.pdf
[18:13] <daveake> HixPad Exactly
[18:14] <arko> ATV for the ISS by august
[18:14] <Martin_G4FUI> We've just returned from our first trip to Italy, now they _really_ do cities there!
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[18:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening All
[18:14] <HixPad> Hi SP9UOB-Tom
[18:15] <fsphil> I've a DVB-S receiver but it doesn't do the ISS frequencies
[18:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: you need downconverter
[18:16] <fsphil> any good off-the-shelf ones?
[18:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: http://www.kuhne-electronic.de/en/products/down-converters/ku-lnc-25-tm.html
[18:16] <fsphil> ah
[18:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: already ordered :-)
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[18:17] <craag> Note, they recommend a 2m dish to be able to pick it up.
[18:17] <craag> The link budget is very dodgy!
[18:17] <fsphil> I've a 1.2m dish
[18:17] <fsphil> drat :)
[18:17] <craag> Well a lot depends on the coax situation in the ISS
[18:18] <craag> It's a 12m run of mini-coax, that was installed when it was built, and hasn't been used since.
[18:18] <gonzo_> zenith recovered?
[18:18] <fsphil> aah
[18:18] <craag> So nobody knows what the loss is, or whether it's still connected.
[18:18] <fsphil> bit of a risk
[18:18] <Martin_G4FUI> Well it won't be full of water, will it?
[18:18] <craag> If it's in good condition, 1.2m will probably do it :)
[18:18] <fsphil> I shall wait and see then
[18:18] <mfa298> at least that coax shouldn't have got water into it
[18:19] <craag> Yeah I'd guess not water..
[18:19] <Martin_G4FUI> Cosmic rays, maybe, and the odd passing quark
[18:19] <HixPad> Floating balls of custard maybe
[18:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: ...or you need decent mast ;-) 100km should be enough ;-)
[18:20] <craag> Well basically they don't know if it was damaged during launch/deployment.
[18:20] <fsphil> lol
[18:20] <Martin_G4FUI> What, no network analyser on board?
[18:20] <fsphil> 80m will have to do
[18:20] <HixPad> Farnell wouldn't deliver Martin_G4FUI
[18:20] <craag> Martin_G4FUI: I would assume they do.. but maybe don't have the time/approval to test it.
[18:20] <Martin_G4FUI> :)
[18:20] <craag> lol
[18:21] <craag> Wifi's going to be the main issue with rx
[18:21] <fsphil> true
[18:21] <Martin_G4FUI> Probaby could knock up a TDR tester with a scope, a battery and an indeterminate length of Gaffer Tape!
[18:23] <Martin_G4FUI> Blue Peter used to make everything with old 78rpm records and Fairy Liquid bottles ...
[18:23] <Martin_G4FUI> I've just had an idea for an HAB payload!
[18:23] <fsphil> have you prepared one earlier?
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[18:24] <HixPad> Does this mean we should be using minidiscs and cif bottles
[18:24] <Martin_G4FUI> I have a stash of minidiscs in my loft
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[18:24] <fsphil> I really wanted a minidisc when I was young but wasn't allowed it
[18:24] <fsphil> sorta glad I didn't in the end :)
[18:24] <mfa298> People bought minidiscs ?
[18:25] <Martin_G4FUI> I just wouldn't recommend porting Sonic Stage to the Arduino (or any other) environment
[18:25] <fsphil> sonic what?
[18:25] <fsphil> not related to a blue hedgehog?
[18:25] <Martin_G4FUI> Mindiscs were/are great, SonicStage always was cack
[18:26] <Martin_G4FUI> Worse than Blackberry Desktop
[18:26] <fsphil> oh dear god
[18:26] <HixPad> I've still got a Sony minidisc deck
[18:26] <HixPad> Portable player is borked
[18:27] <Martin_G4FUI> They sound good tho
[18:27] <fsphil> I've often wondered if you could store a high enough bitrate on regular tape to store an MP3 or one of the modern codecs
[18:27] <fsphil> at CD quality
[18:27] <HixPad> Doubt it
[18:27] <HixPad> Maybe a couple of tracks
[18:27] <Martin_G4FUI> Well DAT never really took off did it?
[18:28] <HixPad> Professionally I think so
[18:28] <HixPad> Before the mbp
[18:28] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: yes
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: phone gets 10bits/hz or so. on two channels totalling 40khz, that'd be 400kbps
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> phone modems
[18:29] <Martin_G4FUI> I think SonicStage was so bad that it gave Apple the inspiration for iTunes
[18:29] <mfa298> I think DAT only really got used in the pro audio world.
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> with FEC of course, 320k should work
[18:30] <Jess--M0VBR> dat was used heavily by the bbc in the mid 90's, I used to shift van loads of them in / out of borough hill in daventry (where they used to tx the world service)
[18:30] <Martin_G4FUI> Ahh 2DX
[18:30] <mikestir> fsphil: record a DRM signal onto it
[18:30] <HixPad> Ahh that's what the mast was
[18:30] <Martin_G4FUI> BBC Tape Reclamation Dept or something
[18:31] <mfa298> lots of tape still being used in the IT world for backups, but that's more specialist.
[18:31] <Jess--M0VBR> there used to be aroud 30 masts on there, only one left now carrying microwave dishes
[18:32] <HixPad> Dav also ATC no?
[18:32] <Jess--M0VBR> just a beacon afaik
[18:32] <HixPad> Odb i think
[18:32] <Martin_G4FUI> They used to say that on Borough Hill, the minute you dug a hole in the ground, it immediately filled up with archaeologists!
[18:33] <Martin_G4FUI> There's DAB there now
[18:33] <Jess--M0VBR> true
[18:33] <HixPad> Are you local to there Martin_G4FUI ?
[18:33] <Jess--M0VBR> you also used to receive the world service on gas cookers
[18:34] <Martin_G4FUI> And on tooth fillings
[18:34] <fsphil> mikestir: I may just try that
[18:34] <mikestir> fsphil: if you don't I will!
[18:34] <fsphil> I'm trying to think where I put my tape recorder
[18:34] <mikestir> I think there's an 18kHz mode
[18:35] <mikestir> and SNR would be reasonably high
[18:35] <Jess--M0VBR> Martin_G4FUI: were you local to daventry?
[18:35] <gonzo_> my cassette deck is back out and wired in
[18:35] <fsphil> hmmms
[18:35] <fsphil> I've been after a USB tape drive, something that can play and record straight to a PC
[18:35] <fsphil> the only ones I've found are playback only
[18:36] <Jess--M0VBR> any deck and a usb soundcard
[18:36] <HixPad> ^
[18:36] <fsphil> that's extra cables and things :)
[18:37] <Martin_G4FUI> Were it not for Sony's Sonic Stage and their STUPID DRM, a NETMD minidisc unit would have been ideal for that
[18:38] <fsphil> I'm after it mostly to transfer C64 tapes to/from the PC
[18:38] <HixPad> Can it not be done as wav?
[18:38] <gonzo_> I exchumed mine to play some tape copies of albums that I've never found on cd
[18:39] <mikestir> I never had a netmd player. I ended up building some hacky thing on an FPGA dev board that took SPDIF and wrote raw PCM to an SD card, with track splits
[18:39] <mikestir> all the MDs are in a box now and everything is on the server in flac
[18:40] <Martin_G4FUI> No DRM issues there, mikestir !
[18:40] <fsphil> nice!
[18:40] <mikestir> nope. especially because I ignored the SCMS bit
[18:40] <fsphil> wait, the DRM was just a bit?
[18:40] <mikestir> yup
[18:40] <fsphil> muhaha
[18:40] <fsphil> that's as bad as the evil bit
[18:40] <Martin_G4FUI> A nice feature of MDs was the seamless track changes, due to their buffering system
[18:40] <mikestir> elektor did a project that stripped it out
[18:41] <mikestir> in the late 90s
[18:42] <Martin_G4FUI> I think I remember that, mikestir - those naughty continental types :) !
[18:42] <mikestir> http://www.minidisc.org/copybit/shematic.jpg
[18:42] <mikestir> that was it i think
[18:43] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - 29th/30th June"
[18:44] <mikestir> lol that's a nice design. basically a discrete SPDIF rx and an EPROM used as a LUT between a pair of shift registers
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[18:45] <LeoBodnar> Great design idea
[18:47] <Martin_G4FUI> What was being looked up?
[18:48] <LeoBodnar> I think it is just of a PLL/sync recovery loop
[18:48] <LeoBodnar> a part
[18:48] <mikestir> it must be involved in the frame sync certainly
[18:49] <mikestir> looks ingenious anyway!
[18:49] <Martin_G4FUI> Was the SCMS bit in the header?
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[18:50] <mikestir> iirc yes
[18:54] <Martin_G4FUI> I take it there's been no news from the Z1 chase team?
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[18:57] <x-f> nope
[19:05] <Martin_G4FUI> Pity
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[19:07] <Martin_G4FUI> afk (gone for a breath of fresh air ...)
[19:15] <LeoBodnar> I am looking at the Excel file from this page http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:splat here http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:float1b.xls
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[19:16] <LeoBodnar> Does not make sense to me when I put heavy load in and total lift becomes negative float altitude is still 6500m ;-|
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[19:26] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: that's the burst altitude
[19:28] <LeoBodnar> No, I don't think so. The burst altitude will be dictated by burst pressure differential and it is not related to float altitude. If it Hburst > Hfloat it will burst, if the other way it will float
[19:28] <LeoBodnar> s/it//
[19:29] <LeoBodnar> I think the xls assumes truly rigid balloon, i.e. not crumpled when it launches
[19:30] <LeoBodnar> I.e. rigid evacuated ballon will float but the foil woun't
[19:30] <LeoBodnar> *won't, OK, I give up correcting typos
[19:30] <LeoBodnar> *balloon oh God
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[19:34] <BenBancroft> hello
[19:34] <BenBancroft> we never found the payload in the end
[19:34] <BenBancroft> landed in middle of massive dence forest
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> hi
[19:35] <number10> oh thats a shame
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> was it that big patch of woods you could see on spacenear?
[19:35] <mfa298> Did you look near the predicted landing spot or where the last string was from ?
[19:37] <BenBancroft> yes
[19:37] <BenBancroft> and yes
[19:37] <BenBancroft> both
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[19:38] <BenBancroft> have some photos of the terrain
[19:38] <fsphil> the dales claim another one
[19:38] <fsphil> that's a shame
[19:38] <Willdude123> Can someone help me comment on the NTX2 code? I don't understand much of it.
[19:38] <mfa298> it's more likely to be near the last telemetry line (quite possibly high up in a tree)
[19:38] <number10> whos code is it Willdude123
[19:38] <fsphil> yea we worked out the last string was about 40m above ground level
[19:39] <mfa298> I'm guessing you didn't get their early enough with a radio to recieve any telemetry from it (then you'de have a good position for it)
[19:39] <Willdude123> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> well it forms strings and then bytes and the bits are instructions to key the transmitter
[19:40] <LeoBodnar> It's probably abeam this tiny kink in road.
[19:40] <Upu> BenBancroft could you hear it on the radio ?
[19:40] <BenBancroft> nope
[19:41] <Upu> did you get your data ?
[19:41] <number10> looks fairly straight forward Willdude123 sets the pin high then sets it low
[19:41] <Willdude123> there are still many bits of it I don't understand.
[19:42] <number10> does this for either a 1 or a 0 of your data
[19:44] <mfa298> Willdude123: you might find it useful to print it out so you can write over the code what each bit does
[19:44] <Willdude123> I prefer to comment on it.
[19:44] <mfa298> or stick it into a word processor so you can add comments
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[19:44] <Willdude123> I can just do //
[19:45] <Willdude123> But things like #include <string.h>
[19:45] <Willdude123> #include <util/crc16.h>
[19:45] <Willdude123> I don't understand.
[19:45] <mfa298> sometimes being able to scribble on it helps as you can draw arrows or circle stuff - that's not so easy to do with // or /* */
[19:46] <Willdude123> Meh, IDk
[19:46] <mfa298> #include is a fairly standard C thing, it makes various functions available to your code
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> Willdude123, I have a thing I want to say to you
[19:46] <Willdude123> Go on, just say it.
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[19:46] <mfa298> if the name in in <> it's in the standard library path, sometimes you'll see it in "" which means it's in your code
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> there is a not so famous 1988 movie called "Bill & Ted" and the main soundtrack song was called "In Time" by south african singer robbie robb
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> and that is like my main motto because he sings "In Time everything will be allright"
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> and that is how I see the world and you should too
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:48] <Willdude123> Can you imagine how annoying it'd be if everyone said "I have a thing I want to say to you" every time they did.
[19:48] <Willdude123> *alright
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:48] <Willdude123> Anyway/
[19:49] <mfa298> Lunar_Lander: that comment is "most excellent"
[19:50] <Willdude123> So difficult.
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[19:51] <mfa298> Willdude123: the best things come from stuff you've worked hard on. If things were easy you'de never learn anything.
[19:51] <mfa298> just break it down into small chunks
[19:51] <Willdude123> Uhu
[19:51] <Willdude123> I'm gonna take a break, because this looks very complicated.
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> mfa298, yeah :)
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[19:53] <mfa298> Willdude123: in trying to understand it you might find it helps if you look at the rtty_txbit function first, then move onto rtty_txbyte
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[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> wb S_Mark
[20:56] <chrisstubbs> S_Mark S_Mark S_Mark S_Mark S_Mark when is the film festival?
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[20:56] <chrisstubbs> ahhhh
[20:56] <fsphil> see what you did
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[21:06] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "[UKHAS] New wiki page - Successful Payload Recovery"
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:13] <daveake> Brave doing that the day before I launch :p
[21:15] Action: fsphil makes a note
[21:15] <arko> hahaha
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> cool thanks :)
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> the gordon ramsay of HAB :)
[21:16] <daveake> f-off
[21:16] <daveake> :)
[21:17] <nigelvh> That leaves things open for some pretty bad jokes.
[21:18] <x-f> good job, daveake :)
[21:27] <daveake> cheers :)
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[21:28] <daveake> So frustrating when recoverable flights go missing
[21:28] <ibanezmatt13> ping HixWork
[21:30] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, I'm looking for some 10mm thick material which is as close to styrofoam as possible, basically 10mm thick foam. Any idea where I can get that from?
[21:30] <daveake> ebay
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: Cutting with a hot wire is quite possible
[21:31] <ibanezmatt13> Well HixWork linked me to some decent stuff from B&Q but it was 25mm thick. Reckon theyd do 10mm?
[21:31] <ibanezmatt13> We dont currently have hot wire
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/40-EXPANDED-POLYSTYRENE-SHEET-LD-GRADE-600-X-400-X-10MM-/200648373379?hash=item2eb7933483
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[21:33] <ibanezmatt13> Looks good. I need that really, just wondered if there was somewhere I could pick it up like B&Q
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> Well, that's a lot of sheets
[21:33] <daveake> Don't you have some packaging foam you can use?
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> It doesn't have to be polystyrene
[21:33] <ibanezmatt13> Not that im aware of
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> no reason cardboard won't work
[21:34] <daveake> I'm sure you can find something suitable
[21:34] <ibanezmatt13> Were making internal walls in our box. Were going now for a three tier design
[21:34] <ibanezmatt13> Ill have a look
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[21:48] <mattbrejza> so can i assume the flight hasnt been recovered today?
[21:48] <mfa298> mattbrejza: they couldn't find it
[21:49] <mattbrejza> so no radio?
[21:49] <mfa298> sounds like they got there after the batts died, or didn't have a radio with them
[21:49] <mattbrejza> oh this was a pi flight (hence betteries)
[21:50] <mfa298> I think so.
[21:50] <mfa298> and I'm not sure how much good testing they did, and wern't on here much
[21:50] <mfa298> I'm not even sure they tied to track it :S
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[21:54] <ibanezmatt13> http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=171057747494&index=6&nav=SEARCH&nid=67682388150 would this definitely do the job as a backup?
[21:55] <chrisstubbs> "definitely" and "GSM Tracker" dont go together too well
[21:55] <chrisstubbs> looks like the one cuddykid uses which has saved his day a couple of times I think
[21:55] <Martin_G4FUI> Zenith was RPi with Pi Camera on board, which is a shame to lose. There were logistical issues getting to the landing area followed by quite a long hike, apparently
[21:55] <Martin_G4FUI> Not as straightforward as it looked on spacenear.us
[21:56] <ibanezmatt13> It sounds like these Gsm trackers are terrible but is it still worth getting one just in case?
[21:56] <mattbrejza> added a predictor warning to daveake 's guide
[21:56] <mattbrejza> seems to happen too offen
[21:57] <daveake> Ah well done I thought about that after I finished
[21:57] <mfa298> finding the payload is *a lot* easier if you get there when it's still transmitting, you have a suitable radio and its still light - I think they failed at least on one of those counts and possibly two
[21:59] <mfa298> I wouldn't be surprised if it was in the top of a tree at which point having accurate gps coordinates helps a lot.
[22:00] <mattbrejza> ive walked past payloads a few times
[22:01] <fsphil> I sat looking up at trees for quite a while before spotting it hanging right above me
[22:01] <daveake> I walked into one once
[22:01] <daveake> In a 2m high maize field
[22:01] <fsphil> I've taken to making them bright florescent colours since then
[22:01] <craag> My first pico dropped into a 3 inch gap behind a wheelie bin, I'd parked 6 feet away and it still took me 25 minutes to find!
[22:01] <Martin_G4FUI> upu reconstructed a final string from partials, but apparently didn't receive it until much later, which didn't help
[22:02] <Upu> well I was in two minds about effectively faking data
[22:02] <Upu> but I've told them to discount the last reading
[22:02] <fsphil> the position and altitude made sense
[22:02] <Upu> they were correct
[22:02] <Upu> but I just copied the scientific data from the previous like
[22:02] <Upu> line
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[22:04] <Martin_G4FUI> It's Ok saying that we all learn from mistakes, but it's definitely the school of hard knocks when it's a school funded project!
[22:05] <Martin_G4FUI> I can imagine the kids all wanting to see the blackness of space, and the curvature of the earth, etc from the camera, I know I would!
[22:05] <mfa298> The annoyance for most of us comes from knowing that they should have been able to at least find the tree it was in even if they couldn't get it back.
[22:06] <Martin_G4FUI> That's one thing about this activity, everything you do gets a hell of a lot of scrutiny from very wise heads!
[22:07] <Martin_G4FUI> Not for the faint-hearted ...
[22:08] <infinity_> Don't give up Martin, I'm sure we have all lost them in the past including me but you learn each time!
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[22:08] <fsphil> I've lost more than recovered
[22:08] <mfa298> I'm not sure I'd say wise heads but lots of combined experience and lots of good advice if people ask for it.
[22:08] <craag> I'm at 2 recovered, 2 lost.
[22:09] <jcoxon> goodness knows how many i've lost
[22:09] <jcoxon> :-p
[22:09] <craag> Trying to lose it as far away as possible doesn't count!
[22:10] <infinity_> I thought they always went down as a test flight!
[22:10] <Martin_G4FUI> Well as a tracking excercise it was extremely interesting for me as I think it was only the last 3 or so sentences I couldn't hear
[22:10] <mfa298> craag: think if you hadn't lost one of those you wouldn't have had such a good report title
[22:10] <craag> Both times I've flown more than a basic tracker, I've lost it.
[22:11] <fsphil> yea you tracked it nearly all the way down
[22:11] <craag> mfa298: Lol yes, the mbed guy didn't like it very much though, he approved the budget :P
[22:12] <Martin_G4FUI> That was quite a surprise, annoyingly I decided to "wander off" when the Tx frequency did, so I lost a big chunk of data in the middle :(
[22:12] <fsphil> yea the big frequency jumps caused AFC some problems
[22:12] <fsphil> I' mat a loss to explain those
[22:12] <fsphil> I'm*
[22:13] <craag> NTX2?
[22:13] <fsphil> yea
[22:13] <Martin_G4FUI> But overall from a transmission of telemetry point of view it was quite a successful flight from my point of view anyway
[22:13] <fsphil> three time it jumped up about 300hz
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[22:14] <Adam012_> Is anyone able to add our flight doc to Habhub Habitat?
[22:15] <Martin_G4FUI> And it launched on time (nearly)!
[22:15] <fsphil> hi Adam012_, you can make one at http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[22:15] <fsphil> make a note of the flight document ID, as it needs to be approved
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[22:16] <fsphil> Adam012_: and then paste the ID in #habhub :)
[22:17] <Martin_G4FUI> OK peeps, Bedfordshire beckons - thanks for the crack and BFN ...
[22:18] <fsphil> nite Martin_G4FUI
[22:18] <Adam012_> Goodnight!
[22:18] <LeoBodnar> Can you REALLY see curvature of the Earth if you lose those horrible GoPro lenses?
[22:19] <fsphil> yep, but it's quite subtle
[22:19] <LeoBodnar> I I think not
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[22:20] <Adam012_> I'll let you know, we've got a Canon A560 and a GoPro Hero 2 going up on Sunday
[22:20] <fsphil> where you launching from?
[22:21] <nigelvh> I've flown a canon, and yes, you can see the curve.
[22:21] <Adam012_> We're launching from Queen Mary's Grammar School, Walsall
[22:21] <nigelvh> http://digitalnigel.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/IMG_5048.jpg
[22:21] <daveake> yup. And those have low distortion. The curvature is real
[22:22] <arko> thats no death star, thats a moon!
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[22:22] <fsphil> a fully operational moon?
[22:22] <nigelvh> Yeah, I love how I caught the moon in that one.
[22:22] <daveake> arko Did you see my gay death star?
[22:22] <arko> haha
[22:22] <arko> i dont think so
[22:22] <arko> FabulousStar1
[22:23] <LeoBodnar> Looks dead straight to me
[22:23] <daveake> webcam holder on my TARDIS flight
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[22:23] <daveake> Painted in Pantone colour "Upu"
[22:23] <nigelvh> Haha
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[22:24] <daveake> http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/3-682x1024.jpg
[22:26] <arko> woah cool!
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[22:26] <Randomskk> i can't remember who the bronys here are. arko? darkside?
[22:26] <arko> we need to submit to the international paint commitee a propsoal to rename hotpink to Upu
[22:26] <arko> Randomskk: I'm far from a brony
[22:27] <arko> sorry bud
[22:27] <Randomskk> not.. not sure you need to apologise really :P
[22:27] <daveake> arko I write software to control paint mixing systems
[22:27] <daveake> I'll add it to the database :)
[22:27] <arko> get out!
[22:27] <arko> no way
[22:27] <arko> thats cool stuff
[22:27] <nigelvh> Yo
[22:27] <arko> good :)
[22:27] <nigelvh> Randomskk, I'm a brony
[22:28] <Randomskk> not that I am or anything but I may have been playing dress up with my graduation stuff
[22:28] <Randomskk> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/kpez4tr5etuannu/MJ-ToMTGcn
[22:29] <nigelvh> Nice!
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[22:29] <griffonbot> Received email: Chris Atherton "Re: [UKHAS] New wiki page - Successful Payload Recovery"
[22:29] <eroomde> is that you?
[22:29] <arko> Honey I shrunk the Randomskk
[22:30] <nigelvh> Hmm, interesting question, can you be a brony if you're already a pony?
[22:30] <daveake> My what big eyes you've got
[22:30] <fsphil> lol
[22:31] <Randomskk> my sister thought it would be amusing to get me a build-a-bear rb with a "class of 2013" ribbon as a graduation present
[22:31] <Randomskk> but since I have all the other accroutements lying around..
[22:32] <nigelvh> It's the first hooks dude. It's honestly a really good show.
[22:33] <Randomskk> I mean you say that, but http://images.wikia.com/mlp/images/4/43/Equestria_Girls_February_10_2013_character_models_and_background_cropped.jpg
[22:34] <fsphil> LeoBodnar: http://i.imgur.com/A1E3FHR.jpg
[22:36] <LeoBodnar> OK then, looks convincing. Also this: http://www.thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> mattbrejza: I thin eroomde is looking at elevation map corrected predictor
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> think
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> Non-circular circles would be awesome too
[22:39] <nigelvh> Yes Randomskk, I'm unsure about Equestria Girls too. But MLP:FIM is good.
[22:39] <craag> elevation corrected predictor should be quite easy, as google allows you to query elevation data along a linear line.
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[22:40] <craag> Circles would take a lot of data and computation though.
[22:41] <LeoBodnar> He got Shuttle radar elevation map
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[22:43] <craag> I've used that in the past and found the definition somewhat lacking. Knowing him though he's probably got a better version :)
[22:43] <chrisstubbs> craag, there is quite a low limit on the elevetion API iirc so I expect it would need to cache the results
[22:43] <LeoBodnar> No, public one http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/version2_1/
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[22:44] <craag> chrisstubbs: For the linear line, you can pull 1000+ points every couple of seconds no problem (I do it on one of my sites)
[22:45] <craag> Area data however I think they make sure no-one can grab enough of it to build a local cache.
[22:45] <chrisstubbs> craag, I have a site that uses it too but seems to pack up for the day after about 2500 queries
[22:45] <chrisstubbs> may just be becuase its terribly written though :P
[22:45] <craag> I think I might have a daily limit of 25k.
[22:46] <craag> But it would only get queried server-side once every time the predictor updates.
[22:46] <craag> (on spacenear)
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> I got a little bit into downloading the data, and doing fresnel zone calculations for every voxel a signal passed through
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> But diddn't get far
[22:48] <chrisstubbs> I made a crude LOS calculator, and also a tool that finds the highest peak in a given radius
[22:48] <chrisstubbs> chris-stubbs.co.uk/extras/maps/alt/ rears its ugly head again
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> Add a highest tree finder, and you've got something.
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[22:48] <chrisstubbs> :P
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[22:50] <craag> chrisstubbs: Sign up for the Google apis console (free) and get an api key, that gives you a higher daily quota
[22:53] <chrisstubbs> My LOS tool: http://bit.ly/18losBZ
[22:54] <chrisstubbs> I was just having a play about really, I would have to have to go back through the code and rewrite it :P
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> http://www.b3ta.com/links/1025004 shaaark
[22:56] <craag> chrisstubbs: I like it. I'd considered trying to add something like that into habrotate.
[22:56] <craag> So that it told you when the balloon was above your horizon.
[22:57] <craag> But decided it would be a bit too inaccurate (due to buildings and stuff) to be useful.
[22:57] <chrisstubbs> That would be neat
[22:57] <chrisstubbs> hmm maybe
[22:57] <craag> And also it would have tripled the lines of code count :P
[22:58] <craag> But you can definitely use >100 samples per query.
[22:58] <chrisstubbs> Yeah that limit was just so i didnt destroy the API limit testing it 20 times a day trying to debug it
[22:59] <chrisstubbs> I was in the progress of making it parse KML files exported from habitat. I cant remember why
[22:59] <chrisstubbs> to see how much of the path you could have tracked i guess :P
[23:00] <craag> Yeah it'd be nice to have an indicator in dl-fldigi that said "No use staring at the waterfall yet mate, it's still behind the hill"
[23:00] <craag> And it's opposite "Did you remember to connect the antenna? It's in full sight now!"
[23:01] <chrisstubbs> Oh no my idea was for it to parse prediction KML's
[23:01] <chrisstubbs> so I know if its worth getting out of bed early to track
[23:01] <craag> Oh cool
[23:01] <LeoBodnar> Or, "everybody else is receiving it now!"
[23:01] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar, that would be far too easy ;)
[23:03] <craag> chrisstubbs: That would be awesome as an automated alert system! Wake you up 10 minutes before it gets into range :)
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[23:04] <LeoBodnar> Well awesome system would just tune and receive it all while you carry on sleeping!
[23:04] <chrisstubbs> True, what happened to the support of CAT in dl-fldigi?
[23:05] <craag> LeoBodnar: True.. I might try that with Matt's decoder and my FCD at some point, relies on an accurate dial freq though!
[23:05] <chrisstubbs> You could use a bot that just asks for the dial on IRC for tuning :P
[23:06] <LeoBodnar> I am planning to pin down TX frequency with few Hz accuracy. Hopefully this will keep trackers happy (and bored)
[23:06] <craag> chrisstubbs: That might be a good idea, for answering people who ask as well!
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[23:06] <WILLdude> Hi.
[23:06] <chrisstubbs> !dial
[23:06] <gonzo_> would bneed to have reasonable cal on the receivers
[23:06] <craag> chrisstubbs: Exactly.
[23:06] <LeoBodnar> What if another bot replies?
[23:07] <craag> THen they argue :P
[23:07] <gonzo_> let the bits chat
[23:07] <gonzo_> bots
[23:07] <chrisstubbs> could pull the freq from my 817 over CAT (if its on, and tuned, which is not very often)
[23:08] <chrisstubbs> I did make a VB program that connected to a mobile phone over bluetooth and would text me if someone mentioned me on IRC to use when tracking in non-3G areas
[23:08] <chrisstubbs> Thanks to the beauty of VB it never worked properly
[23:09] <WILLdude> craag, what exactly does one do at a VHF field/contest thing?
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[23:09] <craag> WILLdude: evening.
[23:09] <WILLdude> Morning
[23:09] <craag> WILLdude: The idea of the contest is to contact as many people as possible in the 24 hours.
[23:10] <WILLdude> Could I just turn up for an hour or so?
[23:10] <craag> You get points per km for each contact, so the further away the better.
[23:10] <craag> Sure
[23:10] <craag> We'll be swapping operators all the time.
[23:10] <craag> There'll be a bunch of other people dropping in.
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[23:11] <WILLdude> A right so you choose a VHF frequency to do a cq call on, then find out the qth of whoever replied, right?
[23:11] <craag> Exactly.
[23:11] <gonzo_> it originally comes from the idea of setting up an emergency station. But tends to just be treated as a contest
[23:11] <SpeedEvil> Is it cheating to use a balloon antenna?
[23:11] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: there's some cat stuff in dl-fldigi - It worked with my TS-2000 but not the 817 (but that could be the cable)
[23:11] <mfa298> I don't think the CAT stuff reports frequency though
[23:11] <craag> SpeedEvil: Yes, counts as airborne :(
[23:11] <WILLdude> I have almost no clue how to operate.
[23:12] <gonzo_> craag, what group are you with
[23:12] <craag> WILLdude: Not an issue.
[23:12] <mfa298> what I really mean is dl-fldigi doesn't report freq upstream
[23:12] <craag> gonzo_: Southampton Uni, assisted by Basingstoke.
[23:12] <gonzo_> call?
[23:12] <craag> G3KMI
[23:12] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, 817 commander will read the frequency back from my radio. never had it working with fldigi though
[23:12] <WILLdude> Do only calls to other contest stations count?
[23:12] <mfa298> maybe it's not my cable but something with rigcat/hamlib then
[23:12] <gonzo_> rr, we will certainly speak then. G4RFR and G4BRA
[23:12] <craag> WILLdude: Anybody.
[23:13] <WILLdude> Also, does the contacted party have to send a qsl card?
[23:13] <craag> gonzo_: Absolutely :)
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[23:13] <craag> WILLdude: Nope.
[23:13] <WILLdude> Is there some way of proving contacts?
[23:13] <craag> We made 136 contacts last year, don't want to send a card to all of them, we'd be broke!
[23:14] <craag> Yes, everyone submits their log, and a computer program checks that the other station logged your contact at the same time.
[23:14] <WILLdude> Also, do all the operators stay there, even if they aren't txing?
[23:14] <craag> stay on site?
[23:14] <WILLdude> Is there a central logging system then?
[23:14] <WILLdude> Yeah
[23:15] <craag> There'll be a few of us uni peeps there all weekend
[23:15] <craag> But a lot of other people dropping in for short times.
[23:15] <craag> Yep, logging is managed by the RSGB, you upload your log file after the contest.
[23:16] <chrisstubbs> craag, when/where is this? I might jump on for a QSO if its within range
[23:16] <craag> chrisstubbs: next weekend, 6th/7th, on 6m, 2m and 70cm.
[23:16] <craag> (Mostly)
[23:16] <mfa298> with the comments about automated tracking, I've found the rtl_fm program now supports ssb and seems to run quite happily on the pi.
[23:16] <craag> SSB as well, none of this fancy FM rubbish
[23:17] <mfa298> Now just need to find out how to route the audio on the pi to mattbrejza's app
[23:17] <mfa298> There's a -U flag for USB.
[23:17] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, that sounds promising
[23:17] <mfa298> Just need to find a stream to listen to, maybe a balloon flight tomorrow
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[23:18] <craag> WILLdude: What makes this contest special is that you have to operate from temporary accomodation (eg tents/caravans) and not on mains power.
[23:18] Action: LazyLeopard was going to point at http://www.rsgbcc.org/vhf as a source of information overload about contesting, but it seems it's down....
[23:18] <WILLdude> Ah.
[23:18] <craag> Subsequently theres a lot of planning: http://www.suws.org.uk/Outing:VHF_NFD_2013
[23:18] <WILLdude> Solar panels won't be great :-)
[23:19] <craag> When you're pushing 100W RF out, solar panels don't provide much.
[23:19] <arko> ^^
[23:19] <LazyLeopard> Just as well it's not an HF field day, 'cos the HF predictions are dire.
[23:20] <gonzo_> 100W, you going qrp then?
[23:20] <LazyLeopard> Heh!
[23:20] <craag> lol yes.
[23:20] <craag> We have 10m masts and 100W rigs, so fit nicely into the Restricted Category.
[23:21] <craag> The uni club lost it's 400W 2m linear back in 2001.
[23:21] <gonzo_> yep, makes sense
[23:21] <WILLdude> I'll try and come if I can find this hill.
[23:21] <LazyLeopard> Careless of them. What happened to it?
[23:21] <craag> WILLdude: https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=za7BzI-3Wfdo.kuzY4Clb_O3A
[23:21] <gonzo_> I've been battling with getting a comercial PA for 2mtrs working. Looks just to be a crappy design. But think we are there
[23:22] <craag> LazyLeopard: Long story, club dissolved, it got thrown in the skip as 'junk' by the student's union.
[23:22] <LazyLeopard> Ooops...
[23:22] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/3NAxhIO.jpg
[23:22] <gonzo_> ouch
[23:22] <craag> Lecturer found it the next day, but it was trashed. (Broken valve + rain damage)
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[23:22] <SpeedEvil> :/
[23:22] <WILLdude> craag, I'll be sure to try and turn up and say hi. So you'll be there all weekend?
[23:22] <craag> It was 400W out, where 400W ~= 1KW ;)
[23:23] <gonzo_> hope he mentioned how many £K they cost
[23:23] <gonzo_> what was it?
[23:23] <craag> WILLdude: Yep, from 9am sat morning setup, radio operation from 3pm sat through to 3pm sun.
[23:23] <WILLdude> Cool. Will Tim be there do you think?
[23:23] <craag> gonzo_: Homebrew.
[23:24] <craag> I don't know much more as I have never seen it. It was known as the "Black Box of Death" for it's weight.
[23:25] <craag> WILLdude: Maybe, haven't heard from him specifically, but I imagine he might drop by at some point.
[23:25] <gonzo_> we have similar, 2x 4cx250. The PSU is a two man lift. But want to try out the commercial amp this time
[23:26] <WILLdude> They mentioned the field day at the nadars meeting.
[23:26] <craag> Amp would be nice, but the club needs other things first. Like a shack.
[23:26] <craag> It's been hard enough getting some storage boxes into the budget :P
[23:27] <craag> WILLdude: To give you an idea, we ran 1 station last year due to horrendous mud, here are some photos: http://photos.suws.org.uk/index.php?album=outings/vhf-national-field-day-2012/
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[23:27] <craag> We'll be running 3 this year.
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[23:29] <WILLdude> Ah alright.
[23:30] <craag> Should be a little more exciting this time, with a caravan and a proper bbq :)
[23:31] <gonzo_> we got rained off the hill last year. All kit and every bit of clothing soaked.
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[23:32] <gonzo_> emptied my wellies into an old milk carton at one point and got a pint or water out of them
[23:34] <craag> We managed quite well, mostly lucky timing with getting tents up while it was still dry, and getting them packed away after drying out on sun and before the rain arrived later that afternoon.
[23:34] <LazyLeopard> There's Wimbledon, Glastonbury, and VHF NFD all at the same time? Got to be a massive wet weather magnet!
[23:34] <mfa298> and British GP
[23:35] <LazyLeopard> We're in for a flood!
[23:35] <gonzo_> only needs a few bbqs and car washers to seal it
[23:35] <craag> Darn.
[23:35] <mfa298> If we're lucky the rain will get so confused it will stay dry
[23:35] <LazyLeopard> Here's hoping ;)
[23:35] <craag> :P
[23:35] <craag> Anyway, last day moving out of old qth tomorrow, should get some sleep.
[23:35] <craag> gn all!
[23:36] <mfa298> actually NFD is not this week so less confusion for the rain then.
[23:36] <mfa298> but will be end of Wimbledon and NFD together
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[23:39] <LazyLeopard> Ah. Ok.
[23:39] Action: LazyLeopard got confused.
[23:39] Action: LazyLeopard needs sleep. G'night.
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[23:56] <LeoBodnar> What's the difference between TOW and UTC on GPS? I have 16 sec difference in the same sentence. UTC is 16 sec behind TOW. Does TOW include leap seconds ?
[23:59] <Darkside> should be in datasheet
[23:59] <Darkside> or ublox protocol spec
[00:00] --- Sat Jun 29 2013