highaltitude.log.20130627

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[02:29] <heathkid> and yet none of you folks are going to join #usahab to talk more APRS and Ham Radio stuff related to HAB?
[02:30] <heathkid> this is the best channel ever but I'm always here at the wrong time and feel like APRS is sort of off topic...
[02:30] <heathkid> though it does work
[02:30] <Darkside> we use APRS
[02:30] <heathkid> haven't done any RTTY yet
[02:30] <Darkside> though only as a secondary system
[02:30] <heathkid> that's my plan too
[02:31] <heathkid> I'm just saying the other channel would be a nice place for USA folks to chat too...
[02:31] <heathkid> no competition
[02:32] <heathkid> Darkside: do you know everyone in this channel?
[02:32] <heathkid> how many are in Europe and how many in the US?
[02:32] <heathkid> I'm considering Oz part of the UK folks...
[02:33] Action: heathkid worked for a company in Perth for about 5 years... I don't like the time zone difference. :)
[02:33] <heathkid> I ended up working 24/7
[02:33] <heathkid> with just over an hour commute by the time I got home the Perth office was open
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[02:33] <Darkside> most people in here are in the UK i think
[02:33] <Darkside> or europe
[02:34] <Darkside> theres maybe 4 people here in australia
[02:34] <heathkid> hence... #usahab
[02:34] <heathkid> those of us who can use ham radio at altitude...
[02:34] <Darkside> right
[02:34] <heathkid> it was just a thought
[02:35] <heathkid> if a bad one... no worries...
[02:35] <Darkside> im in 25 frigging channels as is
[02:35] <Darkside> i'd rather not add any more to the list just yet
[02:35] <heathkid> so what's one more? :)
[02:35] <heathkid> you *know* more than most!
[02:35] <heathkid> you and Upu of course!
[02:37] <heathkid> just received a RFM22B-S2 from SFE today... still not sure what I'm going to do with it.
[02:38] <heathkid> need an uplink of course
[02:38] <heathkid> the HX-1 on 2m is perfect for APRS... but need other options
[02:38] <heathkid> and a backup
[02:39] <Darkside> you don't *need* an uplink
[02:39] <Darkside> though an uplink is nice
[02:39] <Darkside> if in doubt, overfill balloon
[02:40] <heathkid> I want multiple cutdowns
[02:40] <heathkid> :) dropping off a few "payloads" on the way up to burst
[02:41] <Darkside> carefulw ith that
[02:41] <Darkside> thats definitely not allowed here
[02:41] <Darkside> maybe ok in the US, but i dont know the laws there
[02:44] <heathkid> just planning on dropping off a few drones on the way up.
[02:44] <heathkid> well... micro-drones
[02:45] <heathkid> controlled sensor packs
[02:45] <heathkid> why isn't that allowed there?
[02:46] <Darkside> dunno
[02:46] <Darkside> but all the payloads have to come down together
[02:46] <heathkid> where in Australia are you?
[02:48] <heathkid> east cost, west coast, south coast?
[02:48] <heathkid> I don't know anyone on the north coast...
[02:48] <Darkside> south-middle
[02:48] <Darkside> Adelaide
[02:48] <heathkid> lots of friends on the west and south
[02:48] <heathkid> ah
[02:48] <Darkside> north coast doesnt have many people
[02:49] <heathkid> true
[02:50] <heathkid> though most of the people and friends I know are in Perth
[02:50] <Darkside> idon't know anyone over there
[02:50] <heathkid> I've never been there yet
[02:51] <heathkid> but I've heard it's a *lot* different than Sydney
[02:51] <heathkid> Adelaide sounds nice.
[02:52] <heathkid> not too hot... not too cold...
[02:55] <heathkid> it's actually sort of "perfect"
[02:56] <Darkside> kind of
[02:56] <Darkside> it is quite nice here
[02:56] Action: heathkid only dreams of a climate like that!
[02:57] <heathkid> Indiana pretty much sucks lately... too cold or too hot and *very* unpredictible
[02:57] <heathkid> there's a saying... "don't like the weather... wait 10 minutes"
[02:58] <heathkid> we've been having 30-40 deg. F swings in temp between day/night
[02:58] <heathkid> and a lot of storms
[02:59] <heathkid> we have a very mild winter... *not good*
[02:59] <heathkid> Indiana *is* actually part of Tornado alley
[03:00] <heathkid> but, it's one of the safest locations on the planet
[03:01] <heathkid> average about 800ft+ above sea level, no oceans nearby... and only the New Madrid fault to really mess with us.
[03:01] <Darkside> heh
[03:01] <Darkside> no tornados here
[03:01] <Darkside> well
[03:01] <Darkside> very very rare
[03:01] <heathkid> I know
[03:01] <heathkid> saw three start to form last night but dissapated
[03:02] <heathkid> it was quite a storm... just not enough strength to really go anywhere
[03:02] <heathkid> I used to do a lot of storm chasing
[03:03] <heathkid> I'd *love* to do a HAB launch over a Supercell Thunderstorm that's dropping tornados and get a lot of sensor data!
[03:04] <heathkid> 6 minutes ago radar just popped up a descent cell about 100 miles west of me
[03:04] <heathkid> with a J hook
[03:04] <heathkid> no warnings issued yet
[03:04] <heathkid> should
[03:04] <heathkid> just SE of Urbana
[03:05] <heathkid> there's rotation and every indication on radar they should be under at *least* a tornado watch
[03:05] <heathkid> appears to be heading SE... strange
[03:06] <heathkid> this storm system is odd... not acting like it should
[03:06] <heathkid> need to keep an eye on it for sure
[03:06] <heathkid> too bad I don't have any He and can't launch at night (that part *really* sucks!)
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[03:09] <heathkid> anyone you know ever launched a HAB in the updraft of an oncoming supercell thunderstorm?
[03:09] <Darkside> nope
[03:10] <Darkside> most of us like our payloads to last more than a few minutes
[03:10] <heathkid> eh... I've seen some of the data... it's not like 150 MPH winds are going to rip them apart
[03:10] <Darkside> water is th ebiggest concern
[03:11] <heathkid> ah... water....
[03:12] <heathkid> well... if done right, hail would be a bigger problem until above 50k ft. or so
[03:12] <heathkid> above that... not sure what the atmosphere is like
[03:12] <heathkid> not during a storm beneath
[03:13] <heathkid> well... going up... possible rain, freezing condensation, hail, strong winds, etc...
[03:13] <heathkid> weird pressure changes
[03:14] <heathkid> lightning (no H launches please...) :P
[03:15] <heathkid> a lightning strike to the payload probably wouldn't do well...
[03:15] <heathkid> though if I could get that on a camera that survived... hmmm.....
[03:16] <heathkid> but I'd bed it wouldn't show much anyway
[03:16] <heathkid> wouldn't discharge on the payload
[03:16] <heathkid> well... shouldn't
[03:17] <heathkid> okay... so I want to do HAB launches in front of thunderstorms...
[03:18] <heathkid> let them get pulled in or float above
[03:18] <heathkid> collect data
[03:18] <heathkid> anything wrong with that?
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[03:25] <SpeedEvil> interesting
[03:26] <SpeedEvil> this leads me to wonder how long a length of .1mm aluminium wire can be and self support
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[06:27] <eroomde> mornatron tout le mondeabizzle
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[07:06] <Willdude123> Hi.
[07:06] <Maxell> Hello!
[07:07] <Willdude123> craag, you around?
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[07:08] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning :)
[07:09] <ibanezmatt13> http://sdrv.ms/15FEdgP http://sdrv.ms/1aOoMbT
[07:10] <ibanezmatt13> There are a couple of changes I'm making to my box, one of which I'm not sure about
[07:10] <ibanezmatt13> I'd like to secure the components into the box with cable ties.
[07:10] UpuWork (~UpuWork@2a02:b80:12:1:c08:80a0:912a:5a79) left irc:
[07:11] <ibanezmatt13> I don't exactly want to hav cable ties running outside of the box, so I need another layer of foam to go inside the box
[07:11] <ibanezmatt13> Due to the fact that I am already pushing the weight a little, I was thinking of reducing the very bottom layer by 1cm from 2.5cm making it 1.5cm
[07:12] <ibanezmatt13> I was then going to use that 1cm piece of foam I cut off as the second layer
[07:12] <ibanezmatt13> This means that the separation from the outside to the components is still 25mm
[07:13] <ibanezmatt13> just as a 1.5cm layer, then a 1cm layer which the components will be cable tied to
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[07:13] <ibanezmatt13> I was going to use tiny little square stumps of foam to elevate the second layer slightly so that the foam would be level
[07:13] <ibanezmatt13> This would create a little gap, that's the bit I'm not sure about
[07:13] <ibanezmatt13> Is this a good idea or a bad idea?
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[07:17] <UpuWork> as long as nothing moves you should be ok
[07:17] <ibanezmatt13> So reducing the thickness of the bottom layer, but then using that cut off piece again for a second layer would be ok? The gap wouldn't cause any issues?
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[07:19] <ibanezmatt13> Also, on the end of my stripboard where the SMA connector is, I think I need the SMA to be slightly elevated so that I can attach the coax cable. So I'm thinking of using a very very small piece of foam to lift that end up a bit so I can access the connector. Upu, is that a good idea or a bad idea?>
[07:20] <UpuWork> not entirely sure what you mean
[07:20] <UpuWork> but as long as everything is secure
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[07:21] <UpuWork> should be fine
[07:21] <ibanezmatt13> well the SMA connector, if the stripboard is cable tied, will be pushed into the foam a bit so I won't be able to access it. So I may raise that end ever so slightly so that I can get the coax cable to fit on it, if that makes sense?
[07:21] <Willdude123> When he introduced me, the chairman of the local club said I'm an "expert in radio beacons on hot air balloons" **facepalm
[07:22] <ibanezmatt13> haha, morning WILLdude
[07:22] <Willdude123> Morning.
[07:22] <UpuWork> hot air balloons ? they barely get off the ground :)
[07:22] <Willdude123> It's slightly forgivable.
[07:23] <Willdude123> The talk was on delta loops and other stuff.
[07:23] <UpuWork> did you enjoy it ?
[07:23] <Willdude123> Yeah
[07:23] <Willdude123> I didn't understand all of it.
[07:23] <Willdude123> But it was pretty good.
[07:24] <ibanezmatt13> Right I've made a decision, I think. I'm gonna glue the corners of the stripboard to some small pieces of foam. That way the whole board is elevated from the layer of foam which means I can access the SMA connector perfectly. And, the glue will keep it very secure, I imagine.
[07:24] <Willdude123> Upu, when I write my ntx2 code, where should I start?
[07:25] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123 What language?
[07:25] <Willdude123> C :-(
[07:25] <UpuWork> you should start by making it go hi and low
[07:25] <ibanezmatt13> :O
[07:25] <Willdude123> My only option, for arduino.
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[07:25] <ibanezmatt13> good luck with that :P
[07:25] <fsphil> you could use C++ too, or AVR assembly
[07:25] <fsphil> but don't :)
[07:25] <Willdude123> Any arduino like controllers that use python?
[07:26] <fsphil> C ain't so bad
[07:26] <ibanezmatt13> I'm sure you'll be fine. I guess the arduino tutorials teach you basic C anyway like my Pi taught me a bit of Python
[07:26] <fsphil> as a language it's simpler than python
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[07:27] <ibanezmatt13> That I find hard to believe, but you're right
[07:27] <fsphil> python can do more in fewer lines
[07:27] <ibanezmatt13> I think for my next payload, I'm gonna right it in C. I've learnt so much python just by putting it to practice doing this payload than off any guide or book
[07:27] <ibanezmatt13> write*
[07:28] <fsphil> yea actually writing code and then fixing it when it doesn't work is the best way to learn
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[07:28] <Willdude123> I hate it.
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[07:28] <ibanezmatt13> definitely. It's suprising how damn helpful it actually is :
[07:28] <ibanezmatt13> :)
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[07:28] <fsphil> C is less forgiving
[07:29] <Willdude123> Urgh.
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[07:29] <fsphil> it'll happly allow you to do stupid things
[07:29] <ibanezmatt13> But at least you have the freedom to format it how you like, sort of
[07:29] <Willdude123> Anyway, off to the hellhole.
[07:29] <fsphil> yea
[07:29] <ibanezmatt13> haha, have a good day WILLdude
[07:29] <fsphil> enjoy
[07:30] <ibanezmatt13> I really hope I don't destroy my beautiful creation today with my adjustments...
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[07:31] <ibanezmatt13> Morning eroomde
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[07:35] <fsphil> oh no!
[07:35] <ibanezmatt13> meow!
[07:35] <fsphil> this network has a ... split personality
[07:35] <ibanezmatt13> good one
[07:36] <ibanezmatt13> could somebody tell me which coax cable I need for my payload's aerial? I can't remember which one it was
[07:36] <fsphil> not really. my excuse is 8am
[07:37] <ibanezmatt13> fair enough
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[07:37] <ibanezmatt13> holy jesus
[07:38] <ibanezmatt13> I think it was RG54 perhaps?
[07:38] <x-f> RG58 is common
[07:39] <ibanezmatt13> ah thank you
[07:39] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes, 50 ohm, that's the one. Thanks :)
[07:39] <RocketBoy> wow what happened
[07:39] <fsphil> I get RG58 and 56 mixed up
[07:39] <RocketBoy> must be something eroomde said
[07:41] <eroomde> was i polite to someone?
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[07:44] <RocketBoy> was just a net split & join
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[07:45] <number10> scrolls back looking for politeness
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[07:46] <fsphil> 06:27:44 <eroomde> mornatron tout le mondeabizzle
[07:46] <fsphil> I'm not sure that's real French
[07:48] <eroomde> when you were brought up in the suburbs of paris...
[07:49] <gonzo_> is that the french equiv of ending a sentence with 'init' ?
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[08:31] <craag> WILLdude: pong
[08:37] <ibanezmatt13> I'm having trouble mounting my Pi Cam to the side of the box
[08:37] <ibanezmatt13> What's the best way to attach the Pi Cam to the side of the box securely
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[08:38] <ibanezmatt13> morning daveake
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[08:40] <ibanezmatt13> what's the best way for me to stick the Pi Cam to the side of my box?
[08:42] <daveake> I used duct tape
[08:42] <ibanezmatt13> only duct tape?
[08:42] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, and how about creating the hole for the camera in the side of the box? Should I just use a drill/
[08:43] <daveake> drills are good for making holes
[08:44] <ibanezmatt13> I'm wondering how big to make the hole...
[08:44] <HixWork> 28mm cannon too are good, but only for ~35mm holes ;p
[08:44] <fsphil> experiment!
[08:44] <daveake> Big enough so that the camera gets a clear view
[08:44] <HixWork> hot pastry cutter?
[08:45] <ibanezmatt13> thanks a lot. I'll send some pics when it's done. :)
[08:45] <daveake> How thick is the box wall?
[08:47] <ibanezmatt13> 25mm
[08:47] <ibanezmatt13> could be cut down if needed
[08:47] <ibanezmatt13> really need to save on weight, but I was thinking about the insulation
[08:48] <ibanezmatt13> Roughly, what's the absolute lower bound for he thickness of the walls, including the lower layer and lid? Does it have to be 25mm
[08:53] <ibanezmatt13> I guess I'm probably better off leaving the walls at 25mm
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[09:03] <RocketBoy> 25mm is what people typically use (well me anyway)
[09:04] <RocketBoy> it gives a good degree of insulation and padding
[09:07] <RocketBoy> but 25mm is a bit of a goldilocks number
[09:11] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, thanks for that information RocketBoy :)
[09:12] <ibanezmatt13> I'll probably leave the thickness of the walls as they are, but I may just take 10mm off the lid and 7mm off the base
[09:12] <ibanezmatt13> I'll use the 7mm piece off the base as a layer for inside my box
[09:12] <ibanezmatt13> Should be ok, thanks
[09:13] <ibanezmatt13> Right, off to the workshop (my Granddad's house) :)
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[09:13] <ibanezmatt13> See you later
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[09:28] <Leyhart> Morning all, anyone know a Pi camera module supplier that's not charging the earth and has stock?
[09:30] <SpeedEvil> It's deeply annoying that it'[s not just possible to attach a random camera
[09:33] <fsphil> well, can attach a USB webcam
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[10:02] <Brian_> i've been looking for a pi cam as well but everywhere OOS i've signed up for stock notifications at farnell and RS. You could use a usb cam I have a HD one I was gonna use as a backup
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[10:04] <fsphil> there's one in southern france somewhere
[10:04] <fsphil> may be a bit soggy by now
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[10:06] <Jess--> not even available through ebay gougers
[10:06] <Ugi> Mornin' guys.
[10:07] <Ugi> Is there a limit, d'you know, to the number of telemetry fields spacenear will accept?
[10:07] <Ugi> I'm wondering about sending up 2xGPS to test an Adafruit one I have
[10:08] <Ugi> but would result in quite a few quite long fields
[10:08] <fsphil> you could send two strings, with different callsigns
[10:08] <Jess--> that would be my approach
[10:09] <fsphil> I'd be wary of long strings as the chances of bad characters breaking it would increase
[10:09] <Ugi> Good thought.
[10:09] <Jess--> keep the 2 sets of telemetry seperate so that they can be compared easily
[10:09] <fsphil> but habitat itself would be fine
[10:09] <eroomde> Ugi: you could do the first edge-of-space DOC attack
[10:09] <Ugi> I could always send the second string on every nth attempt - say 1 in 5 could be backup string.
[10:09] <fsphil> hah
[10:09] <Jess--> I would go 50 50
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[10:10] <fsphil> 100 baud ftw
[10:10] <Ugi> That's also a point - if I send 100 baud I can get them both equally fast!
[10:10] <eroomde> DOS*
[10:11] <fsphil> I think Darkside already DOSed spacenear, with so much 300 baud telemetry
[10:12] <Ugi> I currently use a bank-switching interrupt sending routine so I could just use one bank for GPS1 and the other for GPS2
[10:12] <Ugi> otherwise I run out of sram
[10:13] <Ugi> will it matter that both will transmit on the same frequency or do I need to do something cunning?
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[10:13] <Ugi> like an offset resistor on another pin
[10:14] <Jess--> I would transmit on the same freq
[10:14] <Jess--> that way nobody is having to retune between strings
[10:14] <Jess--> and everybody by default is receiving both
[10:14] <eroomde> bank switching interrupt....
[10:14] <Ugi> OK - I assume the decode SW will just send what it receives and spacenear will parse whatever it's sent
[10:14] <eroomde> are you using a pic?
[10:15] <Ugi> AVR
[10:15] <Ugi> ATMega 328
[10:15] <fsphil> are you using assembly?
[10:15] <Ugi> no - should I be?
[10:16] <Ugi> just c / Arduino
[10:16] <fsphil> avr's don't use bank switching
[10:16] <fsphil> well not for internal sram
[10:17] <Ugi> Sorry - maybe that sounded too fancy - I just mean that I have two buffers and I write to one while the iterrupt routine sends from the other.
[10:17] <fsphil> ah, double buffer
[10:17] <Ugi> Quite
[10:17] <daveake> Best not to use the term "bank switching" then it confuses some of us :)
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[10:18] <daveake> as it has a specific meaning
[10:18] <Ugi> sorry - I didn't realise there was a technical meaning to that one.
[10:18] <Ugi> tell me about that then.
[10:18] <fsphil> brings back horrible memories :)
[10:18] <eroomde> pic memory structure
[10:18] <eroomde> they have 2 banks of memory
[10:18] <eroomde> you have to manually switch between them
[10:18] <eroomde> it's a horrible bodge
[10:18] <daveake> yeah, and one that can bring back painful memories ...
[10:19] <eroomde> and upsets a lot of people who've ever done pic assembler
[10:19] <Ugi> because the address space is too small?
[10:19] <eroomde> yes
[10:19] <Ugi> don't PCs do something simlar?
[10:19] <daveake> My Z80 computer did it too
[10:20] <Ugi> I had a similar thing I suspect for my BBC micro - there were several banks or RAM/ ROM that could occupy the same address space
[10:20] <daveake> Yep that sounds right
[10:20] <Ugi> They called it "sideways" RAM/ROM
[10:20] <Ugi> didn't know it was known as bank-switching.
[10:20] <eroomde> you would try and write something to what you thought was a data structure address
[10:20] <Ugi> sorry about that
[10:20] <eroomde> and the pwm would come on
[10:20] <eroomde> on something
[10:21] <eroomde> or*
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[10:21] <griffonbot> Received email: Tomasz Brol "[UKHAS] Launch announcement Sat 29th June - Friedrichshafen Germany
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[10:22] <Ugi> That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
[10:22] <Ugi> Glad I've never tried pic's
[10:22] <Ugi> not really inclined to now!
[10:23] <eroomde> the newer ones are ok
[10:23] <daveake> yup
[10:23] <eroomde> but the old 16fxx[x]'s were bad
[10:23] <Ugi> OK. Maybe not so bad
[10:23] <Ugi> there seem to be approx 10^5 kinds of pic
[10:23] <daveake> yup
[10:23] <Ugi> why?
[10:24] <daveake> The first 50% of any PIC project is choosing the best one
[10:24] <jonsowman> and then deciding on an AVR
[10:24] <daveake> lol true :)
[10:24] <Ugi> OK - I'll cut out the middle-man and stick to my AVRs then!
[10:24] <jonsowman> wise
[10:25] <daveake> Lets put it this way ... I've never used a PIC through choice
[10:25] <eroomde> well there are some things PICs still excel at
[10:26] <eroomde> like low power
[10:26] <Ugi> I've run an ATtiny for 6 weeks off a button-cell. Lower than that?
[10:27] <fsphil> the first microcontroller I used was a 16f628. I enjoyed that but writing everything in assembly is tiring
[10:28] <Ugi> Not used assembler since ~1992. Shouldn't think I would manage now.
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[10:28] <Ugi> but if you ever need a morse-code throwie, I'm your man!
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[10:38] <mfa298> reading scrollback: just don't run two different baudrates on the same frequency, that really upsets people.
[10:38] <eroomde> yes that too
[10:39] <eroomde> i do like those flights though
[10:39] <eroomde> one basic tracker
[10:39] <eroomde> another 'experimenta' tracker with massive drift
[10:39] <eroomde> 'COMING THROOOOUUUUUUGGGGHHHHHH'
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[10:39] <eroomde> crashing into the carrier of the main tracker
[10:40] <eroomde> risk is not so much chance-of-failure-squares as chance-of-failure-doubled
[10:40] <eroomde> squared*
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[10:40] <daveake> Ideally with very long
[10:40] <daveake> gaps
[10:40] <daveake> between
[10:40] <daveake> sentences
[10:40] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[10:41] <fsphil> oh definitely don't switch bauds
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[10:46] <Ugi> mfa298: I was not planning on using two baud-rates! That's much too confusing for me too!
[10:47] <Ugi> Ah - is it a good idea to have long gaps between sentences?
[10:48] <Ugi> one of the design ideas in my code was that by using "double buffer" the transmitter never stops or breaks the baud rate
[10:49] <daveake> A short gap, or no gap, is fine
[10:49] <mattbrejza> dont have long gaps, for one fldigi cant track the signal when theres just a carrier
[10:49] <daveake> It's the long gaps combined with a drifting Tx frequency that's the problem
[10:49] <daveake> I have almost no gap in mine - just enough for the next sentence to be formatted
[10:50] <UpuWork> wut ?
[10:50] <UpuWork> no gaps no baud rate changes 50 baud is bestest baud
[10:50] <mattbrejza> generally a good idea to collect sensor data, write SD card, parse GPS while one string is being sent though
[10:50] <mattbrejza> snprintf doesnt take long at all
[10:51] <Ugi> mattbrejza - that's exactly what I have done.
[10:51] <daveake> Indeed
[10:51] <Ugi> sends from one buffer while other is updated.
[10:52] <LazyLeopard> I like just enough of a gap for me to see on the waterfall that the next line has started...
[10:52] <Ugi> all the information is collected and then just stops interrupts momentarily to update the spare buffer.
[10:52] <mattbrejza> you should have at least a few charater lengths of carrier to make sure the decoder locks to the start
[10:53] <Ugi> OK - at present it's completely seamless.
[10:53] <LazyLeopard> Some of the early payloads used to turn the transmitter right off for half a minute at a time. Always interesting trying to catch the first line when they started back up...
[10:53] <Ugi> I assume "carrier" is held high, like std serial
[10:53] <eroomde> you can just do tune-in characters to full the GAP
[10:53] <eroomde> RURURURURU or something
[10:53] <eroomde> fill*
[10:54] <mattbrejza> i think some nulls are probably needed too so that hte decoder can sync to the start of each character
[10:54] <mattbrejza> Ugi: yea
[10:55] <Ugi> mattbrejza: isn't that what the start & stop bits are for?
[10:55] <Ugi> I assumed that once it was reading characters it was best to keep them flowing
[10:55] <mattbrejza> yea but start and stop bits look very similar to regular bits
[10:55] <Ugi> there is a new-line character to tell the end of the string
[10:55] <mattbrejza> so if you send NUL then there is only a start bit, so the decoder will lock on better
[10:56] <mattbrejza> yea the issue is if the decoder is not synced to the start of bytes, it will lock correctly immediately if you send NUL rather than other characters
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[10:57] <mattbrejza> or just a carrier for a few periods also works
[10:57] <mattbrejza> periods = character length
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[10:58] <Ugi> OK - I'll have a play and see if I can improve it a bit.
[10:58] <fsphil> my payload transmits nulls when idle
[10:58] <fsphil> so afc keeps locked onto it
[10:59] <mattbrejza> if you get fldigi to start tracking a signal mid sentence, you should notice it takes a while for it to start getting correct characters
[10:59] <cardre> obviously a power conservation technique, but what tx 'off' time would be seen as acceptable?
[10:59] <eroomde> i think sticking a couple of capital U's before thre sentence wouldn't hurt
[10:59] <eroomde> the problem with $ is that it's 00100100 in binary
[10:59] <eroomde> whereas U is 01010101
[11:00] <eroomde> so it's easier for the decoder to get the time slicing bit synced up properly
[11:00] <mattbrejza> the ideal case is probably UUU followed by nul so that the bit sync is happy, then the character sync is happy
[11:00] <eroomde> whereas $$ is 0010010000100100
[11:00] <cardre> shutting down the tx can obviously extend battery life, esp if a bat voltage is getting low, might be worth extra code and a transistor to control it
[11:00] <eroomde> which is a lot of 0s in a row there
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[11:01] <cardre> for long flights that the device hasn't yet hit the ground
[11:01] <eroomde> cardre: probably not worth it unless you're dropping right down to something like 1 sentence a minute
[11:01] <mattbrejza> eroomde: there is a start/stop bit to make things a bit happier, but im not sure whether fldigis bit sync actually cares for this, based on how fsphil says it works
[11:02] <eroomde> yes, i reached *something* of a similar conclusion when i had a poke
[11:02] <eroomde> or at least, i remember think that it looked a bit odd
[11:02] <mattbrejza> but then there are other decoders that would apprciate some nice transitions to sync from :P
[11:04] <daveake> :)
[11:04] <Ugi> eroomde: 01010101 is easy to get lost in. The thing about 0010010000100100 is that you can quickly work out where you are in the string
[11:04] <Ugi> 'cos the gaps are different
[11:05] <mattbrejza> Ugi: the pattern 01010 is used to sync the bit decision maker with the datastream, rather than sync to the start of a character
[11:05] <eroomde> sure, but 01010101 is easy to lock onto after a period of silence
[11:05] <Ugi> I see.
[11:05] <eroomde> which is what we're talking about
[11:05] <eroomde> often the receivers have to train-up a phase locked loop to track the signal they;re trying to decode
[11:05] <fsphil> fldigi just waits for a stop>start transition, then captures the required number of bits
[11:05] <eroomde> that can take a bit of time to lock on
[11:05] <fsphil> if the last one is a stop bit, it considers it valid
[11:06] <fsphil> which will eventually be true, but maybe not for the first few characters
[11:06] <fsphil> I've seen it get it wrong for most of a sentence
[11:06] <fsphil> 8-bit is worse, as the MSB is always 0
[11:06] <daveake> Me too .. I've seen it, when I tune to the signal part way through a sentence, produce garbage till it gets to the following sentence
[11:06] <fsphil> for text
[11:07] <fsphil> so if you're using just text, please use 7-bit :)
[11:08] <Jess--> that was the reason the balcan payloads sent RYRYRYRYRY BALCAN RADIO REBOOTED after each reboot,
[11:08] <Jess--> it was just long enough to ensure a proper lock on the next sentance
[11:08] <fsphil> NUL, or 0x00 is fine too, and has the advantage of not appearing as text
[11:09] <Ugi> Does that mean NUL=0x00 or does "null" have another ascii value?
[11:09] <Ugi> I guess i could google it
[11:09] <fsphil> 0x00
[11:09] <fsphil> ascii 0
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[11:10] <Ugi> OK. I might send a couple of 0x00s before each sentence then.
[11:10] <RocketBoy> RYRY is only good for baudot sync
[11:10] <eroomde> yes i meant U
[11:10] <eroomde> when i actually looked it up
[11:11] <fsphil> wouldn't U be horrible, as it's basically presenting a lot of start>stop like transitions
[11:11] <mattbrejza> in c it helps to use 0x80 as nul, assuming sending 7n1
[11:11] <Ugi> I see why it would work, but why does that help?
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[11:12] <mattbrejza> because in c 0x00 is how to signal end of string
[11:12] <fsphil> for 0x00, the only 1 bit will be the start bit
[11:12] <Ugi> Ah - of course.
[11:12] <Ugi> good thought/
[11:12] <Ugi> .
[11:12] <fsphil> so it can't lock onto anything else
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[11:13] <eroomde> yes possibly
[11:13] <eroomde> i use U for my own decoder which tried to lock on a clock
[11:14] <eroomde> i.e. didn;t necessarily know the baud rate
[11:14] <eroomde> but had to learn it
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[11:14] <Ugi> I see why that would help teach a baud rate.
[11:14] <Ugi> I think I'll stick to a known baud rate for this one!
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[11:15] <eroomde> well, just in terms of tracking errors
[11:15] <eroomde> eg for the gps receiver i could just say that my adc is sampling the intermediate frequency at 16.368MHz
[11:15] <eroomde> but of course it's not because it's clocked by a crystal
[11:15] <eroomde> and that has some error
[11:16] <eroomde> so the tracking filter also tries to estimate what the local crystal frequency actually is so it can correct
[11:16] <Ugi> incidentaly, the tutorial for arduino NTX2 uses delays of greater than 20ms.
[11:16] <Ugi> is that a programing quirk
[11:16] <Ugi> or should we really use slightly slower than you might expect?
[11:16] <eroomde> it turns out most of the TCXOs i have on my receiver hardware are good to about 0.1ppm
[11:17] <eroomde> which is better than advertised
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[11:17] <Ugi> 0.1ppm sounds pretty good.
[11:18] <Ugi> I hope we don't need that accuracy for 50 baud RTTY!
[11:18] <eroomde> lol no
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[11:18] <Ugi> my cheap Chinese 8MHz crystal is not likely to cut it for that.
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[11:18] <eroomde> but you see, that's why a good fsk decoder for me would estimate the baud rate
[11:18] <eroomde> and try and track it
[11:19] <eroomde> as you do get variation
[11:19] <Ugi> good point.
[11:19] <Ugi> With temp also I suppose
[11:19] <fsphil> there's a big variation between payloads
[11:19] <eroomde> yep fazackerly
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[11:19] <fsphil> even the gap between bytes can be variable
[11:20] <fsphil> rtty is a bit too lax
[11:20] <fsphil> it doesn't mind things like that, but makes it tricker to make a good decoder
[11:20] <eroomde> we need the ultimate machine learning receiver of doom
[11:20] <eroomde> Randomskk:
[11:21] <Ugi> spaceneuralnet.us
[11:22] <fsphil> you know it'll eventually become skynet
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[11:22] <mattbrejza> it will send out the launch annouchments for us, learning out launch patterns
[11:23] <Ugi> Oops - then people will start coming back through time to kill us
[11:23] <mattbrejza> monitoring irc
[11:23] <Ugi> bset not go there
[11:23] <mattbrejza> looking at test data
[11:23] <Ugi> beset -> best
[11:24] <daveake> "I need your radio, your aerial and your chase car"
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[11:25] <eroomde> from a paper
[11:26] <eroomde> "The accelerometer is measuring specific force; specifically, acceleration"
[11:26] <eroomde> STAB STAB STAB
[11:26] <eroomde> who the f calls acceleration 'specific force'
[11:26] <eroomde> and how can 'specific force' be anything other than an acceleration
[11:27] <eroomde> i knew this paper would be BS
[11:27] <eroomde> now even if it's good i will dislike the author
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[11:30] <ibanezmatt13> ping daveake
[11:31] <ibanezmatt13> I did what I coud with regards to raising the components onto another level so that they could be cable tied without holes being created in the exterior. http://sdrv.ms/10YdMXm
[11:31] <ibanezmatt13> The problem is, my Granddad says that if I cut the 25mm pieces any thinner, they'll become much weaker and may snap
[11:32] <ibanezmatt13> So unfortunately, I must keep those pieces of foam for each component at 25mm unless there is any way of cutting it
[11:33] <ibanezmatt13> On the back of each piece of foam for those components, I'm gonna put a little groove in so that the cable tie doesn't prevent me from easily glueing them down
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[11:37] <PE2G> Hi all, I'll be tracking the De Bilt ozone sonde, which will start in a few minutes:
[11:37] <PE2G> http://pe2gradiosonde.funpic.org/js/
[11:38] <PE2G> http://sondetracker.radiosonda.sk/v2/index.html
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[11:39] <Jess--> eroomde: surely an accelerometer can only measure changes in acceleration
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[11:39] <Jess--> or to be more accurate changes in g force
[11:39] <zyp> no
[11:40] <zyp> accelerometers measure absolute acceleration
[11:41] <zyp> in a steady state they measure gravitational acceleration, giving you approx. 1g up
[11:41] <zyp> that's why they can be used to detect orientation
[11:42] <ibanezmatt13> I have a 1m piece of RG58 coax cable and I have absolutely no idea how to prepare it for my payload, nor do I know how it's going to connect to my SMA connector...
[11:44] <Jess--> Cheers for the clarification zyp
[11:44] <fsphil> with an SMA plug :)
[11:45] <Jess--> that's got me thinking about another project where I was planning on using gyros but trying to work out how to get around hyro drift
[11:45] <Jess--> hyro = gyro
[11:45] <Ugi> ibanezmatt13: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300924664161 I guess
[11:45] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> Jess--: you place the gyro into a system with an accellerometer, a magnetometer, and a GPS, and do the kalman thing.
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> Jess--: Though how much drift do you care about.
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> For a degree or so an hour, you can just use MEMS gyros
[11:46] <ibanezmatt13> What are the steps for creating the aerial for the payload? I've seen a picture about doing something to the insulation of thr coax
[11:46] <Ugi> I've been cheap and just left space to solder mine on!
[11:47] <Ugi> Good writeup here: http://www.stratodean.co.uk/search/label/Components
[11:47] <mfa298> the downside of sma plugs is that they tend to be crimp connectors so you need to get a suitable crimp tool
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[11:48] <mfa298> although on most of my crimp bnc connectors I tend to solder the pin as I never seem to get a good crimp on it.
[11:49] <mattbrejza> need a better crimp tool
[11:49] <mattbrejza> i tend to use wire cutters to crimp, only once have i cut the pin in half
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[11:51] <Jess--> SpeedEvil: its part of an idea for self levelling an RC aircraft, so that in the event of control loss it holds itself level side to side and slightly nose down front to back regardless of the orientation when it was activated, not worried about stopping the plane from turning since the receiver itself does a failsafe on the rudder which puts it into a slow CW turn
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> Jess--: You need an accellerometer plus gyro (ideally)
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> The accellerometer in a plane will (over time) always point down)
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> however.
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> If you're happy to have a 'set attitude' button, in principle, you could do that.
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> Hold plane in the right attitude, press button to set.
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> And then it will hold that to within a degree or two over the next hour
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> Also, an alternative is a horizon detector.
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[11:55] <ibanezmatt13> So with the aerial, am I right in thinking that I have to peel back 17cm of the black insulation?
[11:55] <Jess--> this is mainly as an extra to cover me for doing my usual trick of flying too high for 2.4g radio gear,
[11:56] <SpeedEvil> Jess--: Add a dish.
[11:56] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: that's one way of doing it.
[11:56] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: 164mm ish
[11:56] <SpeedEvil> Jess--: 2.4m dishes are pretty inexpensive on ebay, and will boost your range 20 fold
[11:56] <fsphil> you'll also need to remove the outer shield on that 164mm
[11:56] <ibanezmatt13> the coax looks like it has multiple layers which is confusing me a little
[11:56] <fsphil> but leave some to attach radials
[11:56] <mfa298> I think some some people prefer to just strip back part of it and then solder on suitable length wires
[11:57] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I'm afraid I have very little knowlege on doing this...
[11:57] <x-f> ibanezmatt13, an example from Stratodean - http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mF2Kyo6-8GU/ULPJNIxeexI/AAAAAAAAA7I/IWLYiqOTld0/s1600/IMG_1638.JPG
[11:57] <ibanezmatt13> I've been looking at that x-f. That's what I need to achieve but I don't know what the best way to do it is
[11:58] <x-f> it just takes time and patience
[11:58] <Jess--> but the thought occurs to me that a stripped down plane could be taken up by balloon and then released to fly back down on it's own, from memory anything other than self levelling would make the plane run foul of laws regarding drones
[11:58] <ibanezmatt13> what are those 4 wires coming from the wire?
[11:58] <Ugi> My plan was to strip back the braid leaving an inch or so then put strips of copper tape on the payload base.
[11:58] <Ugi> then solder brad to copper tape.
[11:58] <x-f> measure 17 cm, cut the outer plastic casing with a knife, then untwist the shielding
[11:59] <fsphil> radials
[11:59] <griffonbot> Received email: Matthew Brejza "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - UoS Outreach, East Midlands, 1st/2nd July"
[11:59] <ibanezmatt13> See, I'm not actually sure where all these, radials, are going to. They look like they just attach to the box corners. They don't connect to anything do they?
[11:59] <fsphil> nope
[12:00] <Ugi> They connect to the shield of the coax to form a "gound plane"
[12:00] <fsphil> radio voodoo
[12:00] <Jess--> how do you get 17cm? I get 15.5cm once you allow for velocity factor
[12:00] <ibanezmatt13> 434/4
[12:00] <Ugi> no vf once the brade is removes surely.
[12:00] <ibanezmatt13> oh neve rmind
[12:00] <x-f> 17cm is with a reserve, can always cut shorter when finished
[12:00] <daveake> 16.4cm
[12:01] <x-f> yes
[12:01] <ibanezmatt13> So the other end of the coax cable will have a SMA plug on it which will connect to the SMA connector?
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[12:01] <ibanezmatt13> Do I not need to solder this instead? Will the connector be secure?
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[12:02] <x-f> do you have a coax crimp tool?
[12:02] <ibanezmatt13> no
[12:02] <craag> mattbrejza: Did you want this charge sensor for the launch next week?
[12:03] <ibanezmatt13> All I have at the moment is the 1m piece of coax cable, that's it
[12:03] <ibanezmatt13> I'm ready to prepare it, but I'm not sure how.
[12:03] <mfa298> I think most people assume the velocity factor for single bits of wire is around .95 which gives the 16.4cm length
[12:04] <Jess--> I've always used 0.9 (which based on a freq of 434.2 gives 155mm)
[12:05] <ibanezmatt13> So using a knife, what is the first step for preparing the coax cable. I measure 17cm (I'll not go further just yet), then I'm not sure what to peel back
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[12:05] <mfa298> you might need to remove the outer covering of the coax in shorter pieces
[12:06] <ibanezmatt13> So I completely remove up to 17cm in small pieces the black outer shielding? Not the inner bit?
[12:06] <fsphil> remove the outer insulator first
[12:07] <x-f> cut the plastic carefully, try not to damage the shielding
[12:07] <ibanezmatt13> the black bit
[12:07] <ibanezmatt13> what sort of knife?
[12:07] <x-f> sharp :)
[12:07] <fsphil> be careful :)
[12:07] <ibanezmatt13> stanley knife?
[12:07] <x-f> you could practise cutting a couple of centimeters just so you know what is there inside
[12:07] <ibanezmatt13> I'll definitely do that x-f
[12:08] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'll go and get the old stanley knife
[12:09] <GW8RAK> ibanezmatt13 - cut the outer off, don't try to slide it off. Otherwise the layers may slide apart and you may pull the inner out of the outer.
[12:10] <ibanezmatt13> I'm a little confused.
[12:11] <GW8RAK> First job is to mark 17cm down from the end of the coax. Cut around the coax, but only through the black pvc outer. If you cut deeper, you'll cut the braid as well.
[12:11] <ibanezmatt13> ok, ill try it
[12:11] <GW8RAK> The cut along the black pvc from the end to the cut around the coax and you should be able to peel the black layer off.
[12:12] <GW8RAK> Then cut...
[12:13] <ibanezmatt13> There are a lot of strands of wire in the way
[12:13] <GW8RAK> Underneath the black pvc?
[12:13] <ibanezmatt13> ye
[12:13] <ibanezmatt13> s
[12:13] <GW8RAK> That is the outer which you don't want to cut through. Have you already removed the black pvc layer?
[12:14] <ibanezmatt13> yes, only about 2 cm though
[12:14] <ibanezmatt13> I can use this as a practice piece, it only cost £1.29
[12:14] <GW8RAK> Well keep going until you get to the 17cm mark
[12:14] <ibanezmatt13> ok
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[12:16] <GW8RAK> To separate the braid from the inner core, the easiest way is just to use a pin or similar and just unpick the braid until it is removed from the inner, but still attached to the rest of the cable.
[12:16] <ibanezmatt13> I'll try and get this outer PVC off first.
[12:16] <GW8RAK> afk - visitor
[12:16] <ibanezmatt13> So I have to do it in stages? nO slidin
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[12:25] <ibanezmatt13> GW8RAK: I've don it
[12:26] <ibanezmatt13> The black PVC has been peeled back and cut off to 17cm
[12:26] <ibanezmatt13> Not sure what next step is
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[12:28] <ibanezmatt13> What's next after peeling back the black PVC on the coax cable?
[12:30] <fsphil> depends how you want to do it
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[12:30] <fsphil> these days, I'd remove most of the shield
[12:31] <fsphil> leave 20mm at the base
[12:31] <ibanezmatt13> Not sure what you mean...
[12:31] <fsphil> below the black insulator, should be the shield
[12:31] <ibanezmatt13> the braided wire?
[12:32] <fsphil> yep
[12:32] <ibanezmatt13> what do I do with that?
[12:32] <fsphil> you can either untwist it all (which is painful to do)
[12:32] <fsphil> or remove all but a bit at the base
[12:32] <ibanezmatt13> what is the base?
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[12:32] <fsphil> where you still have insulator
[12:33] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[12:33] <ibanezmatt13> So I unbraid the whole thing
[12:33] <ibanezmatt13> ?
[12:33] <fsphil> that's one option ^
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[12:33] <ibanezmatt13> I don't get the second option
[12:34] <fsphil> cut it off, leaving enough to solder wires to
[12:35] <ibanezmatt13> cut it off? The braided wire, cut that completely off? Hmm, a little confused
[12:36] <fsphil> that's not what I said
[12:36] <ibanezmatt13> I'm just confusing this a little for some reaosn
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[12:36] <fsphil> think ahead. you're going to be attaching four wires to the braid
[12:36] <ibanezmatt13> I didn't know that, but yes
[12:37] <fsphil> so leave enough to solder the wires to
[12:37] <ibanezmatt13> So the wires we're talking about aren't part of this cable at all?
[12:37] <ibanezmatt13> They're other wires I'll get?
[12:38] <fsphil> you *could* use the braid, split it into four parts 17cm long but it's horrible doing it
[12:38] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I won't do that
[12:38] <ibanezmatt13> So I cut the braided wire, leaving 20mm of it for soldering?
[12:38] <x-f> it's not THAT bad
[12:39] <fsphil> yes it is :)
[12:39] <ibanezmatt13> I quite enjoy soldering anyway, so I might as well do that
[12:39] <ibanezmatt13> Am I correct ^^ ?
[12:39] <fsphil> you'd still unbraid the 20mm into four parts
[12:39] <fsphil> but that's a lot easier
[12:40] <ibanezmatt13> also, just say I'd cut too much of the black insulation. Could I cut the whole wire down to the right size again?
[12:40] <ibanezmatt13> using wire cutters?
[12:41] <fsphil> doesn't matter as long as at the end, the end of the cable is about 16.4mm-ish away from where the shield begins
[12:41] <ibanezmatt13> good. I'll be back in a few mins then :)
[12:42] <Ugi> 164mm not 16.4!
[12:42] <fsphil> er yes
[12:42] <fsphil> 16.4cm
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[12:48] <eroomde> arko: the DCM ardupilot stuff is total bullshit
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[12:49] <eroomde> i mean i know i had a flick through it and said it looked confused
[12:49] <eroomde> but i properly read it, especially their stuff on gps velocity, and it's just really confused and wrong
[12:49] <eroomde> it's difficult to read
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[12:52] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: done it, picture uploading now
[12:53] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: http://sdrv.ms/139Soyx
[12:54] <fsphil> aye, that looks good
[12:54] <ibanezmatt13> brilliant
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[12:55] <ibanezmatt13> So for these 4 wires, what wires should I get? Normal one strand wire?
[12:55] <fsphil> any old wire you happen to have
[12:55] <ibanezmatt13> with or without insulation?
[12:55] <fsphil> don't believe it would matter
[12:56] <ibanezmatt13> what length do these 4 wires need to be?
[12:56] <fsphil> about the same as your main element
[12:56] <ibanezmatt13> 16.4?
[12:56] <ibanezmatt13> cm
[12:56] <fsphil> yep, or longer
[12:56] <eroomde> 'this improves the head error from +/- 180 degrees to +/- 0.1 degree'
[12:56] <ibanezmatt13> I'll probably cut them down to about 17 to be safe
[12:57] <eroomde> how can you have a heading 'error' of +/- 180 degrees
[12:57] <ibanezmatt13> thanks fsphil :)
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[12:57] <eroomde> saying you have anything that could be justifiably be called a 'heading' in that situation is probably absuing english beyond some limit
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[12:59] <fsphil> I'm starting to wonder of the reg's project LOHAN exists only so they can come up with bad names for things
[12:59] <eroomde> what's the latest?
[12:59] <eroomde> and yes i think that's a tesable hypothesis
[12:59] <fsphil> "CHARM"
[12:59] <fsphil> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/27/lohan_failsafe_update/
[13:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Matthew Brejza "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - UoS Outreach, East Midlands,
[13:00] <fsphil> clockwork high altitude release mechanism
[13:01] <x-f> everybody likes word-like acronyms
[13:01] <UpuWork> yes I've already made my comments known about that
[13:01] <UpuWork> its 350g...
[13:01] <eroomde> so 'fail safe' involves firing a pyro?
[13:02] <eroomde> and launching a rocket?
[13:02] <UpuWork> oh will I be safely in the UK ? :)
[13:02] <UpuWork> oh yes
[13:03] <mattbrejza> i see a timer that has arm written on it
[13:03] <mattbrejza> wasnt there something about timers and explosives that dont go well?
[13:03] <mattbrejza> when combined with hab timekeeping
[13:06] <eroomde> yes there was something about that
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[13:08] <WillDuckworth> how heavy is all this going to be?!
[13:08] <mattbrejza> also if you set the timer up wrong its going off on the ground it seems
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[13:11] <eroomde> yes
[13:12] <eroomde> i have medium-to-strong opinions about all this
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[13:19] <eroomde> but i guess they're doing it in the middle of nowehere so the damage is limited to consenting adults
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[13:21] <HixWork> Speaking of Acronyms. That LOHAN system looks Seriously Horrendously In need of Testing
[13:23] <fsphil> Shoudn't Hit Its Target
[13:24] <HixWork> Clockwork Rubbish Analogous to Problems
[13:25] <mfa298> when it goes wrong they'll need a Fast Action Response Team
[13:26] <eroomde> i think if it goes wrong the fast action response team might follow through
[13:27] <HixWork> They seem like (a) Team Without A Test Strategy
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[14:11] <Ugi> I love the label "set timer BEFORE arming". What could possibly go wrong there....
[14:11] <Ugi> What is that project anyway?
[14:13] <x-f> rockoon
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[14:15] <Ugi> I see. Sounds like a good plan in theory.
[14:18] <Ugi> Can you get even close to "low orbit" with a balloon?
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[14:22] <eroomde> there's no fundamental reason you couldn;t
[14:23] <eroomde> but the balloon doesn;t buy you much
[14:23] <eroomde> if anything
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[14:43] <Ugi> Seems that it should get you lower air resistance.
[14:43] <Ugi> but maybe the difficulty of launch out-weighs thatn
[14:43] <Ugi> that
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[14:48] <Babs_> is eroomde on?
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[14:55] <SamuelBancroft> when does the spacenear.us tracker upcoming launch box update?
[14:57] <mfa298> SamuelBancroft: when someone (with suitable permissions) updates it.
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[14:57] <SamuelBancroft> no problem, ty
[14:59] <mfa298> you could try prodding UpuWork as I think he usually does it.
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[15:02] Action: mfa298 wonders what must be up with the internetz. Seems to be more people joining/leaving than talking today
[15:02] <mfa298> "Today must be a Thursday. I never could get the hang of Thursdays."
[15:04] <fsphil> wise words
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[15:09] <UpuWork> I'll sort it tonight
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[15:17] <WILLdude> Afternoon
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[15:32] <eroomde> https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/350253608115240961
[15:32] <eroomde> i'm posting a george osborne tweet
[15:32] <fsphil> snap out of it man
[15:32] <eroomde> that gives you an idea of how un-usually exciting this is
[15:32] <daveake> I bet :)
[15:33] <mattbrejza> is he buying your new network analyser with part of that? :P
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[15:38] <eroomde> oh golly, we've just made a list of all the things we want to buy
[15:38] <eroomde> there's lots
[15:39] <HixWork> You know the question about swearing yesterday - I have lots of words to utter in relation to George Osborne
[15:39] <HixWork> well, I say utter....
[15:40] <eroomde> yes
[15:40] <eroomde> well
[15:40] <eroomde> i don;t
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[15:40] <eroomde> because he's just given me a massive present
[15:40] <eroomde> but i can still feel empthathy as i look down at the ruins from my shiny tower
[15:41] <HixWork> remember - the government giveth. And the government taketh away
[15:42] <HixWork> Though it would be very interesting to see how much of the quoted funding makes it to the right place.
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[15:43] <Babs_> eroomde - have you seen this? https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsharenet-wii-motion-trac.googlecode.com%2Ffiles%2FAn_efficient_orientation_filter_for_inertial_and_inertialmagnetic_sensor_arrays.pdf&ei=g13MUZmiEcaLOMPjgagE&usg=AFQjCNEBfCip2CAVZhCKjxP1HYvVvWruYw&sig2=z0E6lRqIx3o1Mu6cbINzmA&bvm=bv.48340889,d.ZWU
[15:44] <Babs_> hmmm. that link wasn't meant to be quite as long as that.
[15:44] <eroomde> Babs_: no because i have been busy today being very very happy
[15:45] <eroomde> actually i think i have seen that one
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[15:46] <eroomde> it's sort of a numerical thing that is still a kalman filter, as far as i can see, in that it's just trying to minimise a least-squared error
[15:46] <eroomde> and quaternions are cool and the way to represent attitude
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[15:47] <Babs__> whoops. dropped out for a couple of minutes. At the moment my life appears to be composed primarily of trying to get a signal on Virgin Trains.
[15:47] <eroomde> 15:44 < Babs_> hmmm. that link wasn't meant to be quite as long as that.
[15:47] <eroomde> 15:44 < eroomde> Babs_: no because i have been busy today being very very happy
[15:47] <eroomde> 15:45 < eroomde> actually i think i have seen that one
[15:47] <eroomde> 15:45 -!- Spiruel [568efcb0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.142.252.176] has joined
[15:47] <eroomde> #highaltitude
[15:47] <eroomde> 15:46 < eroomde> it's sort of a numerical thing that is still a kalman filter,
[15:47] <eroomde> as far as i can see, in that it's just trying to minimise a
[15:47] <eroomde> least-squared error
[15:47] <eroomde> 15:46 < eroomde> and quaternions are cool and the way to represent attitude
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[15:48] <Babs__> what is making you happy?
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[15:48] <daveake> George Osborne
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[15:48] <eroomde> https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/350253608115240961
[15:48] <Babs__> food, girls or science?
[15:49] <daveake> money
[15:49] <daveake> well that pays for the others
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[15:49] <ibanezmatt13> Good Afternoon :)
[15:49] <Babs__> or should i call him Georgina
[15:49] <Babs__> I'm not sure which of those three George fits into
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[15:50] <WILLdude> Hello
[15:50] <eroomde> Babs__: fo science
[15:50] <eroomde> we're funded now properly to move very very fast
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[15:50] <eroomde> and do some exciting rocket science
[15:50] <Babs__> are you doing sabre?
[15:50] <eroomde> yes
[15:50] <ibanezmatt13> Box is pretty much complete apart from glue. I've even cut the hole for my camera. The final weight of everything including the batteries is 783g
[15:50] <Babs__> that thing is pretty cool
[15:50] <Babs__> cool
[15:50] <eroomde> yes it is
[15:50] <eroomde> that's my day job
[15:50] <Babs__> 150 degrees of cool in fact
[15:50] <Babs__> *-150
[15:51] <Babs__> did you meet George?
[15:51] <eroomde> no no t there today
[15:51] <Babs__> i remember hotol (I think it was called anyway) BITD
[15:51] <eroomde> BITD?
[15:51] <eroomde> back in the doofus
[15:51] <eroomde> yes
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[15:52] <eroomde> that predates me a bit
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[15:52] <Babs__> similar air breathing then rocketing concept (from my uneducated eye)
[15:52] <eroomde> but it's still alan
[15:52] <eroomde> yes
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[15:52] <eroomde> same bloke
[15:52] <eroomde> skylon basically is the solution to the problems uncovered by hotol
[15:52] <Babs__> to be fair, the technology to make hotol work post dated hotol
[15:52] <eroomde> yep
[15:52] <Babs__> hence why it never got off the ground
[15:52] <eroomde> it exists now though
[15:52] <Babs__> but it is proper science
[15:52] <eroomde> we've testing it and shown it to work steady-sate
[15:54] <Babs__> careful with that one. Keanu Reeves thought a similar thing in his movie Chain Reaction.
[15:54] <Babs__> ;-)
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[15:55] <ibanezmatt13> afternoon fsphil
[15:55] <fsphil> yo
[15:55] <ibanezmatt13> finished the box
[15:55] <ibanezmatt13> apart from gluing
[15:55] <ibanezmatt13> even cut a hole in the side for the Pi cAM
[15:55] <ibanezmatt13> And the coax is done up to the point of attaching the four wires as you saw earlier
[15:56] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[15:57] <ibanezmatt13> just one thing fsphil, for the other end of my coax cable, I definitely need an SMA plug to go onto the end of it don't I?
[15:57] <fsphil> you could solder it to PCB but I wouldn't recommend that
[15:57] <Babs__> thats the neatest solution ibanezmatt13, but not necessarily
[15:57] <mfa298> if you want to plug it into the sma socket on your board an sma plug makes sense
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[15:58] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks. I'm just trying to find the one I saw earlier on ebay for 30p :P
[15:58] <ibanezmatt13> I need one from the UK
[15:58] <daveake> And make sure it's a male SMA plug (one with a pin in the centre). Don't make a mistake and use the RP type. Can't think who would maka mistaka lika thata ...
[15:59] <mfa298> if it's a crimp plug you might need to get a suitable crimp tool.
[15:59] <fsphil> that'd be silly
[15:59] <daveake> even sillier if it flew like that
[15:59] <mfa298> you mean someone was silly enough to make that mistake ?
[15:59] <daveake> and even worse if you made the same mistake on 2 flights
[15:59] <daveake> and then nearly made it yet again before Upu spotted it for you
[15:59] <fsphil> we would surely tease that individual
[15:59] <daveake> definitely
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[16:00] <HixWork> what kind of a fool would do such a thing daveake ?
[16:00] <daveake> One who tries to save money and time by buying leads with plugs already on them
[16:01] <daveake> And buys the ones intended for extending wifi aerials
[16:01] <ibanezmatt13> that would have been better, but hey :)
[16:01] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMA-Connector-male-inner-pin-plug-RG58-LMR195-crimp-/271206330208?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item3f25282f60
[16:01] <HixWork> i hope you mocked them a lot daveake ;p
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[16:01] <daveake> However all those leads are now in my bin. Er, his bin. Whoever he is.
[16:01] <HixWork> heh
[16:01] <Babs__> heh
[16:02] <HixWork> hi Babs__ how is stabilotron going?
[16:02] <eroomde> no sma connector is probably better than a ropely made sma connector
[16:02] <eroomde> so if you do put a connetor on, and have any doubts, do come and ask here
[16:03] <Babs__> Hixwork - I got the whole yaw, pitch, roll outputting from the sparkfun board to the arduino and driving three servos which was cool
[16:03] <HixWork> sweet
[16:04] <HixWork> I'm awaiting the arrical of the pcb for my board
[16:04] <HixWork> got all the components
[16:04] <HixWork> apart from a stencil
[16:04] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: I don't think I have any alternative as I already have the SMA connector soldered onto the NTX2
[16:04] <Babs__> then everyone on here started talking about quaternions etc and I was like "OMG, I'm going to be humiliated for the millionth time because I was using a coffee filter rather than a kalman filter or something"
[16:05] <HixWork> I've got some roll up filters from the off licence. they seemed the lightest ones for HAB
[16:05] <eroomde> baby steps
[16:05] <eroomde> quaternions can wait
[16:05] <eroomde> and you probably don;t need them for pointing cmera
[16:06] <HixWork> quaternions sounds like how long you had to wait for christmas as a child
[16:06] <eroomde> ok, let me teach you what quaternions do in 3 seconds
[16:06] <eroomde> get your mobile phone
[16:06] <Babs__> so i got one of these, which has a quaternion bit of code as a resource http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1269
[16:06] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: that looks like the right thing but to put it on right you'll need access to a suitable crimp tool. It's probably worth getting some spares as well in case you don't get it right first time.
[16:06] <eroomde> hold it infront of you, with the screen facing you and the top earpiece at the top
[16:07] <eroomde> as if it were a mirror
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[16:07] <Babs__> (yes yes, I know that technically the code should work with both boards as a bit of tweaking)
[16:07] <eroomde> tell me when you are doing this
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[16:07] <HixWork> ok eroomde
[16:07] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: So I need a crimp tool and one of those. They sell these at Maplins too I believe. http://www.maplin.co.uk/reverse-polarity-sma-male-44015 Probably not right
[16:08] <fsphil> RP / Reverse Polarity
[16:08] <Babs__> but this one has an altimeter, and who wouldnt want to do a nice compare and contrast of a GPS derived altitude and a sensor derived altitude
[16:08] <ibanezmatt13> oh of course
[16:08] <fsphil> you want to avoid that
[16:08] <HixWork> thats wrong ibanezmatt13 its reverse
[16:08] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[16:08] <eroomde> HixWork: cool
[16:08] <Babs__> (plus when i'd got it working, it was a bunch more stable than the sparkfun coded one
[16:08] <eroomde> now just move it 90 degrees down
[16:08] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 No need to copy my mistake :)
[16:08] <eroomde> so that the screen is looking up at the ciling
[16:08] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[16:08] <eroomde> and the earpiece end is pointing away from you
[16:08] <mfa298> if it says RP or Reverse polarity run away
[16:08] <ibanezmatt13> turns out they only do RP. Not maplins then...
[16:08] <HixWork> yup eroomde
[16:09] <mfa298> maplin do sell sma plugs and the crimp tools (although elsewhere might be cheaper)
[16:09] <ibanezmatt13> what's the name of the connector exactly? Is it a male SMA plug? Should it have a pin inside it?
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[16:09] <Babs__> hixwork - are you going to surface mount solder it all and build it from scratch?
[16:10] <HixWork> babs yup
[16:10] <mfa298> male sma should find it (and it should have the pin)
[16:10] <Babs__> that would be cool. I love making things from scratch.
[16:10] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[16:10] <HixWork> i've got 10 boards
[16:10] <HixWork> loads of room for f*&^ing it up
[16:10] <Babs__> although plaiting my own cord for BABSHAB#1 was probably a step too far.
[16:10] <HixWork> hmm :)
[16:11] <eroomde> hey HixWork can we postpone
[16:11] <eroomde> bottles of fizz have just appeared
[16:11] <HixWork> yes
[16:11] <eroomde> i think we're finishing for the day
[16:11] <daveake> eroomde's new future begins :)
[16:11] <HixWork> miseread fizz as jizz
[16:11] <HixWork> ewww
[16:11] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: for the sma crimp plug from mapln try MM55K (read from the spare in my connectors box)
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[16:14] <ibanezmatt13_> mfa298: I think this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMA-Connector-male-inner-pin-plug-RG58-LMR195-crimp/271206330208?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D8675786537087843930%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D271206330208%26 is the best I'll be able to find
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[16:16] <ibanezmatt13_> what do you think?
[16:17] <Babs__> hixwork - are you still on?
[16:17] <HixWork> yo
[16:17] <mfa298> should be ok. The expensive bit is the crimp tool
[16:17] <Babs__> have you started coding all of this?
[16:17] <mfa298> http://www.maplin.co.uk/coax-connector-crimping-tool-4234
[16:17] <ibanezmatt13_> mfa298: do I need that definitely?
[16:17] <Babs__> ie the ahrs code?
[16:18] <HixWork> nope
[16:18] <ibanezmatt13_> mfa298: my granddad may have that tool, he does a lot of work with coax cable
[16:18] <HixWork> I've been looking at my flight computer code and ridding myself of evil TinyGPS
[16:18] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: I would highly recommend it
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[16:18] <ibanezmatt13_> ok
[16:18] <Babs__> that will be something to get your head around
[16:19] <HixWork> AHRS code?
[16:19] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: it's probably worth talking with him. If he does a lot of coax cable and connectors he may well have a suitable tool
[16:19] <HixWork> pah, simple
[16:19] <Babs__> the calibration is interesting too
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[16:19] Action: HixWork jokes
[16:19] <mfa298> (I'm sure it was cheaper than that when I got mine)
[16:19] <ibanezmatt13_> yeah I will do. He's asleep at the moment, I'll ask him shortly :)
[16:20] <Babs__> there are some nice examples out there that are readable
[16:20] <Babs__> and then there are some which are mental
[16:20] <Babs__> are you putting an atmega on your board with the chips to use as a slave computer?
[16:20] <HixWork> I've been looking at some sample stuff
[16:20] <HixWork> yes theres a 328 onboard
[16:21] <mfa298> you can probably find something suitable cheaper elsewhere as well (maplin may be convient but they're not cheap)
[16:21] <ibanezmatt13_> mfa298: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMA-Connector-male-inner-pin-plug-RG58-LMR195-crimp/271206330208?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D8675786537087843930%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D271206330208%26 Can't tell if they have the inner pin attached. Look like it comes separately
[16:21] <Babs__> thats good. the expensive spark fun that I bought has one and it is really quick
[16:21] <HixWork> mine is based on the SF board
[16:22] <Babs__> the second pololu one doesn't, and I think that once I've wapped the flight computer code onto it too it will make the sampling rate a lot slower
[16:22] <Babs__> which will make it more inaccurate
[16:22] <WILLdude> Where should I start with my NTX2 code?
[16:22] <HixWork> I think in the grand scheme of things 2 processors are better for the weight gain
[16:23] <Babs__> i guess I could always link the pololu board to another arduino nano or something to use as a slave, and then use a main arduino just to receive the data and drive the servos
[16:23] <craag> WILLdude: You pinged me this morning?
[16:23] <HixWork> yup
[16:23] <Babs__> which is a bit clunky but i am learning about these things at the moment really
[16:23] <mfa298> with a crimp connector you should have 3 parts, the centre pin, the body and a metal ring (which from the picture that looks like it does)
[16:23] <WILLdude> Oh hi craag. Do you know Tim from BARC?
[16:23] <HixWork> dualcoreduino babs :)
[16:23] <ibanezmatt13_> so the tool would help me put all 3 together mfa298
[16:23] <ibanezmatt13_> ?
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[16:24] <craag> WILLdude: I do.
[16:24] <craag> Not very well, but have met him a couple of times.
[16:24] <mfa298> you (hopefully) crimp the pin onto the centre of the coax (although on some of my connectors I've had to solder them as well). Then push it together and crimp the braid of the coax between the body and the outer ring
[16:25] <HixWork> Babs__, why have you ditched the SF board then?
[16:25] <WILLdude> It was just that he said you were doing a field event in basingstoke.
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[16:25] <ibanezmatt13_> sounds good mfa298. I'll tell my Granddad. Gotta go for tea now. Thanks for the help :) See you
[16:25] <Babs__> HixWork - I got the quaternion fear
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[16:25] <HixWork> hope you've cleaned it up Babs__
[16:26] <craag> WILLdude: Yep, VHF National Field Day, 6-7th July, from a hill near Ramsdell, E. of Basingstoke.
[16:26] <Babs__> but also there are so many pololu driven balancing robots the sheer amount of resource it has is far easier to get the basic thing working
[16:26] <craag> uh West of Basingstoke.
[16:26] <Babs__> although i did get the sparkfun board working
[16:27] <HixWork> hmm. Pololu although awkward to type seem to have soe great reaources
[16:27] <HixWork> *some
[16:27] <Babs__> the aim is to get a three axis servo set up to point an arrow at whatever direction the board is pointing at.
[16:27] <HixWork> i was aiming for a similar objective
[16:27] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Toombes "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - UoS Outreach, East Midlands,
[16:28] <WILLdude> craag: They mentioned in the meeting that there will be a load of University of Southampton guys there cause barc doesn't have enough people.
[16:28] <WILLdude> craag: Is it alright if I could come along and see it?
[16:28] <craag> WILLdude: Yep, we'll basically be running it with BARC's help.
[16:28] <Babs__> once i've got that working then getting it to point to a constant point on the ground or in space should be pretty easy
[16:28] <craag> You'd be very welcome!
[16:28] <Babs__> at the moment, I've got the three servos moving independently when the three directions of the board change independently so i think i'm halfway there
[16:29] <WILLdude> He actually mentioned you after I told him about hab.
[16:29] <craag> We'll be there from 9am on Saturday, contest starts at 3pm, and lasts until 3pm on Sunday (24h continuous).
[16:29] <HixWork> Babs__, good work
[16:29] <Babs__> but i've got no time at the moment, work is mental, i'm trying to rent my flat out and move to a new house before i get married in less than four weeks
[16:30] <WILLdude> Congratulations.
[16:30] <Babs__> so it may have to wait until late August before I get my head down on it :-(
[16:30] <HixWork> perfect time to learn about quaternions then ;p
[16:30] <WILLdude> If that's what you say when people get married.
[16:30] <Babs__> WILLdude. You are wise beyond your years.
[16:31] <WILLdude> What do you mean?
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[16:31] <HixWork> heh
[16:32] <Babs__> HixWork - now that i've got the servos working thats all I needed. I know I can do it. The next month will just be spent thinking of how to do the physical implementation of it all, which i can do in my head.
[16:32] <Babs__> WILLdude - your uncertainty of whether or not marriage was a cause for congratulations
[16:32] <HixWork> Babs__, I'm not really sure that is how the honeymoon thing is supposed to go
[16:32] <HixWork> :D
[16:33] <WILLdude> Because if I say congratulations, that sounds like we never thought you could.
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[16:33] <WILLdude> Which is true, but we wouldn't want to say that.
[16:34] <WILLdude> :)
[16:35] <Babs__> tbf, if I get through the wedding without a "with this capacitor, I thee wed" line fluff that will be an achievement
[16:35] <HixWork> heh
[16:36] <WILLdude> my mother actually had "to cook and to clean" in her vows.
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[16:40] <Babs___> Testing testing - switched to mobile
[16:40] <HixWork> I'm off from the office, bbl.
[16:40] <mfa298> Test status: Failed
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[16:47] <craag> WILLdude: Ping me nearer the time and I can give you directions and details. We'll be running 3 stations so more operators are always welcome! (you can operate under a full licensees supervision)
[16:47] <WILLdude> If I had a clue how to operate, I'd do that.
[16:48] <WILLdude> Wait.
[16:48] <WILLdude> Yep OK
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[16:52] <WILLdude> 3~
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[17:04] <WILLdude> Are there regulations as to how bright LEDs on payloads are?
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[17:07] <Ugi> Hey cuddykid - can I ask you a quick Q' on PCBs?
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[17:08] <SpeedEvil> WILLdude: There are the eye-safety rules.
[17:08] <WILLdude> Could someone cover it with super bright leds?
[17:09] <Ugi> Hey cuddykid_ - can I ask you a quick Q' on PCBs?
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> WILLdude: I was pondering a UAV which did a rapid ascent to 4km, then took pictures.
[17:09] <cuddykid_> Hi Ugi - fire away
[17:09] <Ugi> I say on your flickr that you had a design with a Ublox Lea
[17:09] <Ugi> Did you do that in Eagle?
[17:09] <WILLdude> OK
[17:09] <Ugi> Saw not say
[17:10] <cuddykid_> Ugi: no lea - only used NEO and MAX
[17:10] <cuddykid_> and yes, both in Eagle
[17:10] <Ugi> Ah - OK.
[17:10] <SpeedEvil> WILLdude: I had planned to surround it by a ring of LEDs, pulsed to give an equivalent output to 2kW or so.
[17:10] <Ugi> I was looking for a Lea footprint for Eagle
[17:10] <SpeedEvil> (of halogen)
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[17:10] Nick change: cuddykid_ -> cuddykid
[17:11] <Ugi> Any idea where I can get a LEA footprint for Eagle?
[17:11] <Ugi> I hate designing parts
[17:11] <Ugi> takes forever
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> WILLdude: The nice thing about pulsing is you can almost entirely neglect the heatsink. As though your 5*5mm LED may be dissipating 8W, it's only doing this 1% of the time.
[17:13] <WILLdude> Do parachutes have to deploy immediately or can you delay them, and deploy them after a freefall??
[17:13] <cuddykid> Ugi: not sure - not in Upu's library?
[17:13] <Ugi> I didn't think so, but that was only from memory so I'll check.
[17:13] <Upu> https://www.dropbox.com/s/q2x8g7pesoqezgc/laforge.lbr
[17:13] <Upu> why the LEA ?
[17:13] <Ugi> Had to buy a new laptop so need to DL again
[17:14] <Upu> hang on
[17:14] <Upu> not in that
[17:14] <cuddykid> typical - on a 'corporate responsibility' day tomorrow outside - only day of the week it decides to rain.. rest of the week has been spent in a windowless room inside
[17:14] <eroomde> there are a few LEA footprints floating around
[17:14] <eroomde> i think the pararazzi autopilot project has an eagle library
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> ^8kW, not 2.
[17:14] <Ugi> I also have a "summer outing" climbing trees in Kent.
[17:14] <Upu> https://www.dropbox.com/s/db50f80je7aaueg/LEA6T-PiEval.sch
[17:15] <Upu> its in there just open 2 Eagles and copy
[17:15] <cuddykid> Ugi: good practice for HAB recovery
[17:15] <eroomde> i think the pinouts are different for the T varients
[17:15] <eroomde> iirc
[17:15] <Ugi> Man I hope not!
[17:15] <eroomde> but i may not rc
[17:15] <Upu> I'll have to check that eroomde
[17:15] <eroomde> well they're certainly different, but i think they might be incompatible in some ways
[17:16] <eroomde> it maybe by the power, gnd, uart and rf_in are the same
[17:16] <Upu> best check that
[17:16] <eroomde> in which case that's probably ok
[17:16] <Ugi> Thanks guys. so long as it fits I can mess with the pinout.
[17:16] <eroomde> the last one i did was the LEA-5H for the badger 2 flight computer
[17:16] <eroomde> which is a while ago now
[17:17] <eroomde> and memory is ropey
[17:17] <eroomde> google generation thing
[17:17] <eroomde> messes with your brain
[17:18] <Ugi> Upu: Is there a board file to go with that schematic?
[17:18] <Upu> http://openbsc.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/osmo-lea6t-gps
[17:18] <WILLdude> Upu: Do parachutes have to deploy immediately or can you delay them, and deploy them after a freefall?
[17:18] <Upu> I would have it predeployed WILLdude
[17:19] <Ugi> Thanks guys.
[17:20] <chrisstubbs> ah man, got some parts to make a boost regulator but the element in my soldering iron has gone :*
[17:20] <WILLdude> Could a hab without a parachute kill someone ?
[17:20] <eroomde> i like how you're the only one who can answer these questions Upu
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[17:20] <Upu> I know
[17:21] <LeoBodnar> Evening
[17:21] <Upu> evening Leo
[17:21] <eroomde> hello LEO
[17:21] <SpeedEvil> chrisstubbs: Blowtorch + soldering iron
[17:21] <SpeedEvil> WILLdude: Certainly
[17:22] <chrisstubbs> SpeedEvil, aha hopefully it wont come to that!
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[17:57] <WILLdude> I actually know someone at school who might be interested in doing a hab now.
[17:57] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:57] <WILLdude> I said to him this is the best place to ask.
[17:58] <WILLdude> And emailled him instructions for getting on IRC, so he might turn up at some point on here.
[17:59] <SpeedEvil> http://uk.news.yahoo.com/remote-control-model-plane-attack-foiled-205754696.html#t7R9A2F damn
[18:01] <Hix> it was only a matter of time
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> Yeah.
[18:02] <Hix> Soon they'll be outlawing autonomous hobby vehicles in sensationalist daily mail over-reacting stryle
[18:02] <WILLdude> So if you see him on here, get him to ping me.
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[18:13] <ibanezmatt13> Just ordered the stuff for a male SMA connector. My granddad says that he'll try and find his 1963 crimp tool tomorrow. The box has been weighed with absolutely everything apart from the backup tracker which comes to 783g, hopefully the backup tracker doesn't weigh too much. I've cut a hole in the side of my box for the camera. I've partly prepared the aerial from some RG58 coax cable. Phew! :)
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[18:16] <ibanezmatt13> what's the chance of me finding a "precrimped" male connector? I'm not too bothered about buying some more coax cable with a connector attached to be honest
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[18:17] <x-f> chance is, but the cable usually is short and has another connector on the other end
[18:18] <x-f> it is called "pigtail"
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[18:19] <ibanezmatt13> So my only practical method is to use my Granddad's 1963 crimp tool that may not be found to crimp the three parts of the connector together to the coax cable? Hmm...
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[18:20] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UHF-SO239-female-to-SMA-male-for-pigtail-cable-RG58-1M-3feet-/330690791625?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cfeb508c9 something like this. Couldn't I just use some wire cutters to cut the unnecessary connector off?
[18:20] <ibanezmatt13> It's RG58
[18:22] <x-f> you could, yes
[18:22] <x-f> is the crimp tool too expensive?
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[18:22] <x-f> this wouldn't be the only time you would use it
[18:23] <ibanezmatt13> Well, it's a little more than I'd like to pay, but I'd definitely get one at some point. I just don't think I'd make a good job of the crimping
[18:23] <ibanezmatt13> for instance: http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/221050773725?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=63
[18:24] <x-f> you just squeeze it and that's it :)
[18:24] <ibanezmatt13> would the connection be reliable?
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[18:24] <x-f> should be
[18:24] <stobby> can you guys help with a gps?
[18:24] <stobby> system
[18:25] <x-f> i solder the inner pin to be sure
[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> to what?
[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> oh right
[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> nevermin
[18:25] <x-f> :)
[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> I'll wait and see if my Granddad finds his. I may even buy one this week myself. I'll just see how it goes, thanks x-f
[18:25] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: there looked to be some crimp tools that should be suitable for around £7 on ebay (bit cheaper than maplins)
[18:25] <x-f> hello, stobby, what's up?
[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: really?
[18:26] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BNC-TNC-RG58-RG59-Coax-Coaxial-CCTV-Cable-Crimp-Crimper-Crimping-Hand-Tool-Plier-/330920841560?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d0c6b5158
[18:26] <stobby> new to this stuff so wondering about what gps setup is needed to ensure its tracked
[18:26] <ibanezmatt13> would that do the male SMA mfa298 ^^
[18:26] <mfa298> I found a few, as it's ebay you never know quite what the quality is but cheaper than maplin
[18:26] <ibanezmatt13> that one I linked doesn't fit SMA,
[18:26] <ibanezmatt13> I'll keep looking
[18:26] <x-f> i have one of those, it's not great, but it does the job fine
[18:27] <mfa298> that's the sort of think I spotted.
[18:27] <Hix> Hi stobby
[18:27] <x-f> it can handle SMA as well
[18:27] <stobby> Hix:hello
[18:27] <mfa298> I *think* but not checked it would probably manage sma, it's more about the size of the cable
[18:27] <ibanezmatt13> strange how it doesn't say it can
[18:28] <Hix> have you read the Wiki stobby ? http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[18:28] <Hix> there's a ton of info there.
[18:28] <ibanezmatt13> x-f: when you say it's not great, how do you mean?
[18:28] <x-f> it is adequate for the price :)
[18:28] <ibanezmatt13> ok. I may just get that then. Hopefully it'll do the SMA ok
[18:29] <x-f> i don't know, it just feels like it could be a little better
[18:29] <Hix> unless you had a specific question I'm sre most of the info you'll need is there stobby
[18:29] <Hix> it takes a bit of digging, but its a treasure trove of info
[18:29] <x-f> ibanezmatt13, but it crimps my SMAs to RG58 so i shouldn't really complain
[18:30] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'll trust your information :) Thank you
[18:30] <LeoBodnar> It is probably only a question of time when flying a model will require a license.
[18:31] <Hix> stobby: this may also help you http://goo.gl/35cXL
[18:31] <Hix> tescnically it already does LeoBodnar BMFA
[18:32] <mfa298> looking at a crimp bnc and crimp sma in my box they look to be the same size at the point you crimp them so that tool should work.
[18:32] <ibanezmatt13> brilliant, thanks
[18:33] <daveake> Well it's the cable size it's designed for that matters
[18:33] <Hix> ping babs
[18:33] <stobby> hix: so you need a gps module,microcontroller and an antenna ?
[18:33] <ibanezmatt13> great :)
[18:33] <daveake> You can get SMA for RG174 or RG58 for example
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[18:34] <Hix> stobby: yes, a VHF module too though. Speak to Upu about the VHF module first though
[18:34] <daveake> My tool (ooer missus) has 3 holes for 3 cable diameters
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[18:35] <Hix> stobby: its reasonably simple in principle. GPS spits out NMEA, uC then parses this into a string, this is then turned into RTTY over VHF by FSK
[18:35] <daveake> UHF :)
[18:35] <Hix> pendant
[18:35] <Hix> ;p
[18:35] <daveake> I was about to say I'm being pedantic today :)
[18:35] <stobby> Hix: http://www.instructables.com/id/Low-cost-Near-Space-Without-HAM-Radios-or-Cellphon/ what do you think of this
[18:35] <Hix> intentional error
[18:36] <daveake> But then that probably doesn't need announcing
[18:36] <Hix> stobby: if you are UK then the one advantage this system has is the distributed listener network. really improves your chances of recovering your camera and GoPro :)
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[18:37] <stobby> yeah im in the uk
[18:38] <Hix> I am not a HAM but i strongly suspect the sparkfun radio is illegal here in the UK
[18:38] <Hix> and wouldnt be something that most track
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[18:38] <Hix> have you been to www.spacenear.us/tracker yet?
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[18:41] <Hix> oh stobby looking at that RF module - it's vastly more expensive than an entire 434MHz tracker including GPS etc
[18:42] <stobby> Hix:really :/
[18:42] <Hix> yup
[18:42] <Hix> http://goo.gl/ONdpE
[18:43] <Hix> http://goo.gl/WueKj
[18:43] <WILLdude> ibanezmatt13: Is your granddad helping you with the HAB?
[18:43] <WILLdude> Oh he's gone.
[18:43] <Hix> plus arduino bit of stripboard and some passives
[18:43] <Hix> go figure the cost
[18:43] <Hix> but as I said speak to Upu first
[18:43] <Hix> he is HABSupplies
[18:44] <Hix> and is very helpful
[18:44] <x-f> the HABdealer
[18:44] <Hix> stobby: you havent already bought the SF thing have you?
[18:44] <Hix> x-f :D
[18:45] <stobby> nope
[18:45] <Hix> good DON'T :D
[18:45] <stobby> okay
[18:46] <Hix> seriously - have a look through the wiki, work out the bits and bobs and follow a launch or two on spacenear
[18:46] <Hix> you'll see how good the newtork of listeners is, coupled with this channel
[18:47] <Hix> infact stobby
[18:47] <Hix> Date/Time: 28th June 2013 - around 11:00 BST
[18:47] <Hix> Flight: Zenith1(ZN1)
[18:47] <Hix> Callsign: ZN1
[18:47] <Hix> Freq: 434.075 MHz NTX2 Shift 600 Hz 300 Baud
[18:47] <Hix> Launch site: William Howard School Lat 54.943967 Long -2.743438
[18:47] <Hix> Payload: 500g Scientific Equipment involving UV sensor, GM tube, pressure and temp sensors etc.
[18:47] <LeoBodnar> I think Sprkfun used the same RF module and proudly lost the balloon https://www.sparkfun.com/news/389
[18:47] <Hix> heh
[18:48] <stobby> oh dear :L
[18:48] <arko> i still cant believe they used a heater
[18:48] <LeoBodnar> Correction - https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/180
[18:48] <Hix> if you want to be really flash stobby you can get 10 pcbs custom made for your tracker and that will cost you the hefty sum of $19
[18:48] <LeoBodnar> It's in tutorials folder. Lol
[18:49] <Hix> you could do a custom tracker on a custom pcb for less than their radio module cost
[18:49] <Hix> and get your s^&t back ;p
[18:50] <Hix> afk 5 mins
[18:50] <LeoBodnar> Sprkfun/Lessons learnt: Test your radio. This goes without saying, but this balloon was lost because 'hoping it would work out' overcame common sense. But sometimes this is the only way to truly learn. For the next flight, we will be using a different radio system.
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[18:57] <Hix> http://goo.gl/oR980 posting this as a "bookmark" for Babs its some more IMU resource
[18:59] <Upu> hi stobby
[19:00] <Hix> here's yer man :)
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[19:00] <Hix> Gurupu
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:00] <Hix> hi Lunar_Lander
[19:00] <Upu> evening Lunar
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[19:01] <WILLdude> Hmm. What should I do first to make my NTX2 code?
[19:02] <Hix> WILLdude: its on the wiki
[19:02] <WILLdude> I know, I want to make my own/
[19:02] <Hix> I managed to make it work, so you have a chance :)
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[19:05] <Hix> looking through all the IMU resources it seems it is possible to program an ATMega328 using FTDI
[19:06] <WILLdude> The one on the wiki works for me.
[19:06] <WILLdude> But I wanna write my own code.
[19:06] <daveake> Yes. That's how the Arduino Mini Pro does it Hiz
[19:06] <daveake> x
[19:07] <daveake> WILLdude Understand the code in the wiki then you can write your own
[19:07] <WILLdude> Ah OK.
[19:07] <Hix> sods law, ordered olimex
[19:07] <Hix> oh well, i now live in a multi programming environment :)
[19:07] <daveake> That's how I learnt electronics at your age ... look at other people's circuits and figure out how they work
[19:08] <daveake> Hix That's always good :)
[19:08] <Hix> yup
[19:08] <Hix> redundancy :)
[19:09] <stobby> hix: can you recommened a gps module
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> I think all Arduino Pro modules work that way
[19:09] <WILLdude> Ublox, stobby
[19:09] <Hix> speaking of which, my contract is not getting renewed at work, so I'm back in contractmarketville
[19:09] <WILLdude> Ublox MAX6
[19:09] <stobby> uBLOX MAX-6?
[19:09] <WILLdude> Upu sells breakout boards for them.
[19:09] <stobby> yeah cool
[19:09] <Hix> stobby: speak to Upu he just pinged you
[19:09] <WILLdude> You going to use an arduino?
[19:09] <Upu> hi stobby
[19:10] <daveake> stobby Find the HAB Supplies site that's Upu's
[19:10] <Hix> linked daveake
[19:10] <Upu> What are you after ?
[19:10] <daveake> ah so sorry
[19:10] <Hix> no worries
[19:10] <Upu> they are all on commission :)
[19:10] <daveake> lol
[19:10] <Hix> cool - tracking code pls Upu ;p
[19:10] <daveake> pay me in parts
[19:11] Action: Hix needs eyetesting
[19:11] <Hix> read that as pay me in pants
[19:11] <Hix> and eroomdes fizz as jizz earlier
[19:11] <daveake> lovely
[19:12] <WILLdude> fizz as jizz?
[19:12] <WILLdude> What does that mean?
[19:12] <daveake> ah ignore that WILLdude :)
[19:12] <WILLdude> If it's a rude word you know you shouldn't be swearing in the channel.#
[19:12] <daveake> lol
[19:12] <WILLdude> I have the temptation to google it now.
[19:12] <daveake> oh dear
[19:13] <daveake> Hix this is all your fault :p
[19:13] <Hix> *jazz ;p
[19:13] <Hix> nice
[19:13] <Hix> you know me any my typos
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[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> anthony, got a moment?
[19:14] <Hix> zeusbot seems to have filtered it out of the search
[19:16] <Hix> seems my thinkpad is censoring me via the medium of dead batteries
[19:16] <Hix> bbl
[19:20] <WILLdude> Connect UB6 TX on the board to pin 1 TX
[19:20] <WILLdude> Connect UB6 RX on the board to pin 0 RX
[19:20] <WILLdude> Sure that's right???
[19:20] <WILLdude> RX to RX, TX to TX??
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[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> you are right, TX to RX and vice-versa
[19:23] <SamuelBancroft> for the launch tomorrow, will all the trackers start switching on before the estimated launch time?
[19:23] <SamuelBancroft> as in, we won't be stuck waiting for them
[19:25] <SamuelBancroft> forgive the most probably stupid questions, I say it's part of the learning process ;) I hope to be helping the newbies one day in the future
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[19:27] <Upu> don't worry SamuelBancroft
[19:27] <Upu> just get it in the air safely
[19:28] <Upu> if you have connectivity
[19:28] <Upu> and can post on here do so
[19:28] <Upu> and try be late I'm onsite first thing :)
[19:28] <SamuelBancroft> :P
[19:28] <Upu> how long to the batteries last ?
[19:29] <SamuelBancroft> don't know off the top of my head - the energizer lithium ones...
[19:29] <SamuelBancroft> Does 5 hours sound about right? I think it was that
[19:29] <Upu> sounds about right yeah
[19:29] <Upu> just make sure you put enough gas in
[19:29] <Upu> when you think you have enough in
[19:30] <Upu> put some more in
[19:30] <Upu> then add a little more
[19:30] <SamuelBancroft> does overfilling have disadvantages?
[19:30] <SamuelBancroft> I have a newtonmeter and a calibrated water bottle ready - and I'll be using the school's sports hall if it's considerably windy outside
[19:31] <SpeedEvil> SamuelBancroft: It may burst lower
[19:31] <Upu> you should be ok but just stick a few extra squirts in
[19:31] <SpeedEvil> Getting it out a door may be amusing
[19:31] <SamuelBancroft> lol, ok
[19:31] <SamuelBancroft> they're big doors but I'll be keeping an eye on that
[19:31] <SpeedEvil> A sheet large enough to completely cover the balloon, and close at the bottom may be useful
[19:33] <SamuelBancroft> thanks for the advice
[19:34] <WILLdude> Hix: Jazz as fizz doesn't make sense.
[19:34] <WILLdude> Nor does fizz as jizz.
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[19:36] <WILLdude> ibanezmatt13: Hi
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> hi :)
[19:40] <WILLdude> Witht the ublox, which pin on the arduino does tx and rx go to?
[19:40] <WILLdude> I mean from the FTDi cable.
[19:41] <ibanezmatt13> I know that TX would go to RX, and RX to TX. Not sure what an FTDi cable is though :P
[19:41] <ibanezmatt13> Ah, now I know what that is
[19:42] <ibanezmatt13> Didn't know the Arduino had a socket for that.
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[19:44] <SamuelBancroft> does anybody have a blanket of thick, grey cloud blocking the sky completely?
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> I do
[19:45] <chrisstubbs> SamuelBancroft, welcome to the UK
[19:45] <WILLdude> Okay. FTDi cable in. How do I TX through it?
[19:45] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude, https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/DevTools/FTDI%20Cable%205V.pdf has the pinout of which colour cable is wich
[19:46] <SamuelBancroft> haha, just wondered if it was Cumbria specific :P Southenr England is like the sahel when I visit for holidays
[19:46] <fsphil> dare I say it, the sun has come out here
[19:46] <chrisstubbs> FTDI 5v --> GPS 5v FTDI GND --> GPS GND FTDI RX --> GPS TX FTDI TX -- GPS RX
[19:46] <chrisstubbs> then you can use putty to open the relevant com port
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[19:47] <WILLdude> Actually I don't need to.
[19:47] <WILLdude> Because it's just for debug.
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[19:48] <WILLdude> Getting a load of rubbish through serial.
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[19:48] <chrisstubbs> check your SS speed matches your speed in putty/serialmonitor
[19:49] <chrisstubbs> also, have you connected your ftdi gnd to arduino gnd?
[19:49] <WILLdude> Yeah
[19:49] <WILLdude> Wrong port, je pense.
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[19:51] <WILLdude> This normal?
[19:51] <WILLdude> http://pastie.org/8087203
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> hi chrisstubbs
[19:51] Nick change: Upu- -> Upu
[19:51] <chrisstubbs> Check GPS RX and TX arent crossed
[19:52] <chrisstubbs> that basically means your arduino isnt getting the acknowlegement response from the ublox when you try to send it a command
[19:52] <chrisstubbs> evening Lunar_Lander
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[19:53] <WILLdude> chrisstubbs: Yep, they're OK
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[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> how's life chris?
[19:54] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude, you can use the RX line of the ftdi cable to probe around to see if 1) your gps is sending out NMEA, 2) its going to the right place
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[19:56] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, okay thanks, got some bits through to put together a couple of boost regulators, however the element has gone in my iron. New one on order but it will be a few days :(
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> :( not so good
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[20:20] <Willdude123> I have discovered, there is power from the arduino on it's rx line.
[20:20] <Willdude123> But not from the UBX's TX
[20:20] <SamuelBancroft> gtg now - see you all for the launch tomorrow hopefully
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[20:26] <Willdude123> Very weird.
[20:26] <Willdude123> I could try swapping tx and rx.
[20:28] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, Yes thats worth a go
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[20:30] <Willdude123> Worked, momentarily
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[20:31] <ibanezmatt13> This is quite simply excellent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uwY3sjqYX0
[20:35] <steve_____> hiya
[20:36] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, suppose thats a result, If you had it working you should be able to replicate it by doing exactly what you did again.
[20:36] <chrisstubbs> Hi steve_____
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[20:40] Nick change: Elijah__ -> Elijah
[20:40] Nick change: Elijah -> Elijah_
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[20:43] <Willdude123> I am getting NMEA though.
[20:44] <chrisstubbs> ok thats good news
[20:44] <chrisstubbs> when you swapped rx and tx, did you swap the rx and tx going from the ublox to arduino, or ublox to ftdi?
[20:45] <Willdude123> Ublox to arduino, not arduino to ftdi
[20:45] <Willdude123> It is supposed to out the NMEA data.
[20:46] <Willdude123> Not sure if it is supposed to bring up all the ack stuff or not.
[20:46] <ibanezmatt13> what are your print statments?
[20:47] <ibanezmatt13> by the way, Willdude123 are you software serial or hardware?
[20:48] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not fully up on C, but I guess that a .print or a .println prints things onto the screen. If you find something be printed that you don't want to be printed, comment it out
[20:48] <ibanezmatt13> But don't just listen to me :)
[20:49] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13: Both
[20:50] <ibanezmatt13> that confuses me a little. But yes, what I said about the print statements, try that
[20:50] <ibanezmatt13> I think in C a comment is //
[20:51] <daveake> / it is
[20:51] <daveake> er
[20:51] <daveake> // it is
[20:51] <ibanezmatt13> I'm learning :)
[20:52] <ibanezmatt13> From the code on the wiki: Serial.print(MSG[i], HEX); you may be able to just put a // before it. Then I guess it won't print out the HEX and ACK. Little steps
[20:52] <fsphil> it's /* comment */
[20:52] <fsphil> the // came from C++
[20:52] <ibanezmatt13> There you go Willdude123
[20:52] <mfa298> Technically I think // is C++
[20:52] <fsphil> but most compilers allow it these days in C
[20:52] Action: mfa298 was beaten by fsphil
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[20:53] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, http://sdrv.ms/10YdMXm
[20:53] <ibanezmatt13> I think it's ok
[20:54] <ibanezmatt13> I'm gonna have to make a groove for those cable ties in the back of each small piece of foam
[20:54] <ibanezmatt13> Should be ok
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[20:56] <ibanezmatt13_> daveake, would you consider my materpiece to be a bit of a bodge?
[20:57] <daveake> yup
[20:57] <daveake> but they usually are :)
[20:57] <ibanezmatt13_> excellent :)
[20:57] <ibanezmatt13_> haha, it'll be fine
[20:57] <ibanezmatt13_> I've got 100g to play with so I'll try my best to secure everything. I hope cable ties were a good decision...
[20:58] <fsphil> as long as they're not holding a load
[20:58] <ibanezmatt13_> err
[20:58] <fsphil> they get breaky when they're very cold
[20:58] <ibanezmatt13_> ah
[20:58] <ibanezmatt13_> http://sdrv.ms/10YdMXm
[20:58] <fsphil> well, depends on the material I suppose
[20:59] Action: ibanezmatt13_ may need to rethink entire box plan
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[20:59] Nick change: ibanezmatt13_ -> ibanezmatt13
[20:59] <fsphil> duct tape :)
[20:59] <ibanezmatt13> wait a minute
[21:00] <fsphil> that's a really big bit of stripboard
[21:00] <steve_____> ibanezmatt13: did you put the mounting blocks in so you could cable tie in the components?
[21:00] <ibanezmatt13> yes, thankfully nothings glued yety
[21:00] <ibanezmatt13> yet
[21:00] <ibanezmatt13> only because I didn't want little holes in the bottom layer of the box
[21:01] <ibanezmatt13> But now, cable ties are being thrown out the window I think
[21:01] <fsphil> they'd probably work fine for that
[21:01] <ibanezmatt13> Ideally I could do with saving on weight, therefore ditching the bodged pieces I have on that pic http://sdrv.ms/10YdMXm
[21:01] <ibanezmatt13> well, they could work fine, but there must be something better
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[21:02] <fsphil> or put your boards on the bottom, and use the blocks to hold them in position
[21:02] <ibanezmatt13> If you were in my posistion where it's not exactly feasible to use compartments, how would you secure it in the box?
[21:02] <fsphil> ^^
[21:02] <ibanezmatt13> that way is an idea I've considered, but I wasn't happy with it in the end, plus it's more weight
[21:02] <steve_____> I like daveake's idea of calving out groves in between two sheets of foam and just sandwiching them in there
[21:02] <fsphil> you're using blocks already
[21:03] <ibanezmatt13> yeah guess so
[21:03] <ibanezmatt13> hmm...
[21:03] <fsphil> then you need a thin sheet to set on top to cover them up
[21:03] <fsphil> stop them bouncing out
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[21:04] <ibanezmatt13> Well I asked my granddad if he could cut some pieces down to 10mm from 25mm, he said it was impossible due to the size and fragility of the material
[21:04] <ibanezmatt13> So everthing has to be 25mm
[21:05] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, you sould be able to cut them down smaller, how was he doing it?
[21:05] <steve_____> I think people use a hot wire cutter on the forums but not to half the thickness of the sheets I imagine
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> Hot wire is easy
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[21:05] <ibanezmatt13> Using a panel Saw chrisstubbs
[21:06] <ibanezmatt13> don't have a hot wire cutter I'm afraid
[21:06] <ibanezmatt13> http://sdrv.ms/1aOoMbT here are the components without those bodged blocks. I need to do something to that
[21:06] <ibanezmatt13> I made the stupid mistake of soldering all the wires on before designing the box. Now I have to secure it in like it is
[21:06] <steve_____> you almost have compartments ready - you could use the mounting blocks as spacers and then a top and bottom sheet
[21:07] <fsphil> this is why I like connectors :)
[21:07] <Babs__> ibanezmatt13: I don't know whether this helps, but for some of my components I have bolted them in using plastic nylon bolts
[21:07] <ibanezmatt13> I think I know what you mean
[21:08] <ibanezmatt13> Babs__, I heard of those too. Just wondered what I could do with duct tape
[21:08] Action: ibanezmatt13 has an idea
[21:08] <Babs__> Make a hole in the bottom, or make a little shell of styrene that fits there too, and bolt it together
[21:08] <Babs__> There is an example on my flickr site
[21:09] <Babs__> Where I bolted in the tracker, GPRS tracker and external battery
[21:09] <Babs__> It held really well
[21:09] <Babs__> Other more simple option
[21:09] <ibanezmatt13> Another idea would be to cut a mould out for each component into the base layer of the box and sit them in there
[21:09] <Babs__> That's what I did - hang on a sec
[21:10] <steve_____> yes but not too far in
[21:10] <steve_____> you might want to do half in the base and half in the top
[21:10] <steve_____> or use spacers then you don't have to mould
[21:10] <steve_____> all your mounting blocks are the same hight
[21:10] <ibanezmatt13> This would make the components only 17.5mm from the outside...
[21:11] <ibanezmatt13> I could actually, yes
[21:11] <steve_____> height*
[21:11] <Babs__> Here you go http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/91049302@N00/8665144505/
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[21:11] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[21:12] <Babs__> Other option that works really really well
[21:12] <Babs__> Jumbo strength Velcro
[21:12] <steve_____> have a bottom, lay your compents directly on the bottom sheet, put spacers in between and around the edges then lay the top sheet on
[21:12] <ibanezmatt13> Babs__, that link didn't work
[21:12] <ibanezmatt13> steve_____, I like that idea too
[21:12] <steve_____> I can see Babs__ 's link
[21:13] <ibanezmatt13> when you say bottom sheet, do you mean the 25mm thick base layer
[21:13] <steve_____> yes
[21:13] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[21:13] <Babs__> Steve's method is basically the same
[21:13] <ibanezmatt13> I'll try it in a different browser
[21:13] <ibanezmatt13> got it now
[21:13] <Babs__> I built my compartments up in layers, then had a sheet over the top
[21:13] <Babs__> As in my capsule was laminated
[21:13] <Babs__> But the method is identical
[21:14] <steve_____> I think some people use glue but I like the bolts idea as well
[21:14] <ibanezmatt13> Babs__, what did you use to cut the foam like that? What could I use insetad of a hot wire?
[21:14] <chrisstubbs> Hmmmmm http://hackaday.com/2013/06/27/rf-wireless-kernel-module-for-raspberry-pi-beaglebone-and-others/
[21:14] <Babs__> Bolting it all together is a nice idea though, makes assembling at the launch site very quick
[21:15] <ibanezmatt13> bolt vs glue
[21:15] <Babs__> ibanezmatt13: A scalpel and a lot of patience
[21:15] <Babs__> Bolt
[21:15] <ibanezmatt13> what bolts would you reccomend
[21:15] <ibanezmatt13> ?
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[21:15] <Babs__> You've learnt the hard way already that attaching things permanently can cause problems further down the line!
[21:15] <ibanezmatt13> it can
[21:15] <Babs__> Search for nylon bolts on google
[21:15] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[21:16] <ibanezmatt13> these: http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/320866977537?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=63 ?
[21:16] <Babs__> They do them in bags of 10
[21:16] <ibanezmatt13> o
[21:17] <ibanezmatt13> aha http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nylon-Screw-Nut-Washer-Washers/dp/B006WNJDWA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1372367832&sr=8-3&keywords=nylon+bolts
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> Better way to attach - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ncgq6OPmY4o
[21:18] <Babs__> The washers are a good idea as it stops the nuts grinding into the styrene
[21:19] <Babs__> And then I just do them finger tight and duck tape to stop them undoing
[21:19] <Babs__> I've done two flights and zero problems but admittedly that is not a large data set
[21:19] <ibanezmatt13> Babs__, You've inspired me to dispose of my current box. Not sure what to do now
[21:20] <steve_____> I must say thats an awesome payload Babs__
[21:20] <Babs__> Those nylon bolts are exactly the ones you want
[21:20] <Babs__> Thanks steve_____
[21:20] <ibanezmatt13> Should I rebuild the box from scratch or is there a possible bodge I can make
[21:20] <Babs__> ibanezmatt13: Don't do it ! My payload is totally overengineered
[21:21] <steve_____> did the gyroscopes stablise as much as you hoped
[21:21] <Babs__> Your box is great, just do the spacer thing to stop them moving around and cover over with a flat piece bolted in and you will be done
[21:21] <ibanezmatt13> Babs__, http://sdrv.ms/1aOoMbT it's not that easy
[21:22] <Babs__> Velcro everything to the bottom and nothing is going to shift around
[21:22] <Babs__> steve_____: I think so - check out the gopro video at apogee on the same page. It's pretty stable. In going to do an active stabilisation rather than passive next time though
[21:22] <ibanezmatt13> So instead of cable ties and glue, you reckon bolts and velcro and bits of foam to stop components moving laterally Babs__
[21:22] <steve_____> velcro is another good idea
[21:23] <ibanezmatt13> Is that the best thing I could do to this box at this stage?
[21:24] <steve_____> are you talking about motors Babs__
[21:25] <ibanezmatt13> I have a possible option
[21:25] <Babs__> That's what I would do ibanezmatt13 , it's worked for me but there are a bunch of people on here who've done it far more than me
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[21:26] <Babs__> So check them out too so I'm not giving you a bum steer
[21:26] <Babs__> steve_____: Yes, servos and an imu
[21:26] <WILLdude> How much would a pole for a w-50 cost?
[21:26] <ibanezmatt13> Babs, I have two minutes remaining on parental limits. https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=751BE9DFE50F64AE!229&authkey=!AO7-7peZGf2j4_Y that was my lid, I may have to use the smaller piece to make spacers. Would the top lid on it's own be enough thickness?
[21:26] <ibanezmatt13> I'm short on foam
[21:26] <WILLdude> So I can stick it in my garden?
[21:27] <WILLdude> ibanezmatt13, what software does your parental control?
[21:27] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude, I got mine from screwfix
[21:27] <ibanezmatt13> not sure WILLdude
[21:27] <WILLdude> Hah.
[21:27] <ibanezmatt13> Babs__, What do you reckon?
[21:27] <Babs__> How thick would it be?
[21:27] <WILLdude> What does it do?
[21:27] <ibanezmatt13> 25mm
[21:27] <WILLdude> Log you out?
[21:27] <Babs__> I would go for more
[21:28] <ibanezmatt13> more
[21:28] <Upu> ibanezmatt13 did you see how Stratodean was put together ?
[21:28] <ibanezmatt13> ?
[21:28] <WILLdude> Or stop the internet,
[21:28] <ibanezmatt13> yes Upu, won't be able to do that really
[21:28] <Babs__> Use normal polystyrene for your spacers?
[21:28] <ibanezmatt13> In fact, that's what I aimed for
[21:28] <chrisstubbs> about £10-15 for a 10ft pole I think, you might be able to pick up scaffold poles on the cheap though
[21:28] <Babs__> No one is going to see it
[21:28] <Upu> ok
[21:28] <Babs__> And your lid looks neat!
[21:28] <ibanezmatt13> hmm
[21:28] <Upu> to be blunt if stuff can move around it will
[21:28] <WILLdude> 10ft in meters is?
[21:28] <Upu> it has to be totally secure
[21:29] <chrisstubbs> 3ish
[21:29] <WILLdude> How big is daveake's
[21:29] <Upu> Daves is enormous
[21:29] <ibanezmatt13> internet's failing. Will speak tomorrow, thanks for all help
[21:29] <chrisstubbs> 10m i think
[21:29] <Upu> I've see it
[21:29] <mfa298> WILLdude: pole for an antenna probably depends on how high you want to get it. Alternativly do you have any reasonably high trees ?
[21:29] <ibanezmatt13> Good night! :)
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[21:29] <chrisstubbs> night ibanezmatt13
[21:29] <Upu> ibanezmatt13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGLB9-LdpYM&feature=c4-overview&playnext=1&list=TLSnCmHicFlbI
[21:29] <WILLdude> Not really no
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[21:29] <Upu> just imagine your box of bits ..
[21:29] <ibanezmatt13> fantastic Upu
[21:29] <WILLdude> What type of pole is it?
[21:30] <arko> 20% off everything at sparkfun until July 4th
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[21:30] <arko> in case no one mentioned that here
[21:30] <WILLdude> ibanezmatt13, there must be some way to disable it,
[21:30] <mfa298> WILLdude: I think daveake has something that's designed as a portable antenna mast - they can get expensive
[21:30] <fsphil> ta arko
[21:30] <WILLdude> Idk.
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> lol arko
[21:31] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude, http://www.screwfix.com/p/labgear-29924lab-3m-aerial-mast/32094 comes as 2x 1.5m interlocking parts
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[21:31] <arko> i assume someone mentioned it :P
[21:31] <WILLdude> Mine would need to be at least 10m.
[21:31] <arko> my scrollback got messed up today
[21:31] <fsphil> I was not aware
[21:31] <arko> YOU CAN THANK AMERICA
[21:31] <WILLdude> Anyone have an image of his, in comparison to his house?
[21:31] <mfa298> for a 10m mast like that lift get's fun, you'll need enough space to put guy ropes out
[21:32] <fsphil> for all those chinese made parts
[21:32] <arko> you can now buy stuff from sparkfun for 20% off because we broke up with your country :P
[21:32] <arko> haha yeah
[21:32] <mfa298> if you guy near the top you ideally want ~16mx16m of garden to have space for guys
[21:32] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude, did you manage to convince the parents to put an x-50 in the garden then?
[21:33] <WILLdude> Cause not
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> chrisstubbs: http://www.beatsons.co.uk/redwood-planed-c143/dressed-planed-c152/joinery-quality-redwood-vs-square-dressed-planed-70mm-x-70mm-x-4-8m-p12534
[21:33] <WILLdude> Must cost a lot to deliver.
[21:33] <WILLdude> Where did he buy it.
[21:33] <WILLdude> I need a 10m.
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[21:34] <mfa298> WILLdude: how big is your garden ?
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> I made an 8m mast out of bamboo.
[21:34] <WILLdude> Very big
[21:34] <mfa298> WILLdude: for a 10m mast ideally you want around 16m x 16m of ground space to guy it.
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> 9+5+3+1 canes.
[21:35] <fsphil> what's a garden?
[21:35] <mfa298> for a 10m mast you'll also need help putting it up.
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> What's on top of the 10m mast?
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[21:35] <SpeedEvil> If it's just a small ariel - there is no real need for guys, if you've got the appropriate footings.
[21:36] <WILLdude> Might house mount it instead.
[21:36] <ibanezmatt13> Woo, managed to find a device with a parental limit of 11:00
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[21:36] <fsphil> you leet hacker you
[21:36] <ibanezmatt13> Important question, regarding the backup GPRS tracker, which woukd you recomend, and I need to know how wide it is
[21:36] <ibanezmatt13> Why thank you fsphil :-)
[21:37] <fsphil> you need your neighbours wifi password
[21:37] <ibanezmatt13> I do :-) anybody have a btfon login I could use, jokingly :-)
[21:37] <mfa298> WILLdude: the best thing to do would be have a short mast mounted at the roof line - similar to what most people have a TV antenna on.
[21:38] <ibanezmatt13> I have unlimited internet on my phone. Are there any irc apps for windows phones?
[21:38] <WILLdude> My roof sticks out a bit though.
[21:38] <ibanezmatt13> If there were, i could stay on
[21:38] <fsphil> windows phone? probably. also, hehe :)
[21:38] <mfa298> WILLdude: The other trick I've used is a rope over a branch on a tall tree and use that to suspend an antenna
[21:38] <ibanezmatt13> Ive looked but cant find one...
[21:39] <ibanezmatt13> Need one in the next 20 mins!
[21:39] <fsphil> there must be. it can't be a real platform if it doesn't have an irc client
[21:39] <fsphil> my amiga has an irc client
[21:39] <mfa298> WILLdude: there are mounts designed for wall mounting TV antennas, or if you've got a chimney you can get chimney mount options
[21:39] <ibanezmatt13> Please help me :'(
[21:40] <fsphil> google
[21:40] <steve_____> I wish I still had my amiga
[21:40] <ibanezmatt13> Googling :-)
[21:40] <fsphil> which one did you have steve_____?
[21:40] <steve_____> 512
[21:40] <fsphil> a500?
[21:41] <steve_____> yeah
[21:41] Action: mfa298 wonders if you can run putty on a windows phone - then you just need a linux machine to log into
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[21:41] <ibanezmatt13> You can
[21:41] <ibanezmatt13> But not putty
[21:42] <ibanezmatt13> Its called the ssh client
[21:42] <ibanezmatt13> From marketplace
[21:42] <steve_____> I have an emulator somewhere but its not the same
[21:42] <ibanezmatt13> Works really well
[21:42] <fsphil> steve_____: agreed. I still have a few amigas floating about
[21:42] <ibanezmatt13> Found one
[21:42] <mfa298> in that case you just need a linux based system you can log into and then learn to use irssi on linux.
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> Or quassel
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> Quassel is nice.
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> I don't know if there is a windows phone client
[21:43] <ibanezmatt13> Whats the server?
[21:43] <fsphil> http://code.google.com/p/microirc/
[21:44] <fsphil> freenode
[21:44] <ibanezmatt13> Its asking for a server and password
[21:44] <ibanezmatt13> Just freenode?
[21:44] <fsphil> irc.freenode.net maybe
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> Quassel is a two part client. It consists of a 'core' which has a persistant connection to the server, and a database.
[21:44] <fsphil> shouldn't need a password
[21:44] <mfa298> if thats in your ssh client you'll need a linux machine you can log into.
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> It then has a multitude of clinets which can connect to that core concurrently, and view scrollback and notifications and ...
[21:45] <steve_____> It was my 2nd computer but unlike you brits I didn't have a sinclair Z81 I had a sega SC3000
[21:45] <fsphil> sega made computers?
[21:45] <steve_____> hehe
[21:45] <steve_____> yeah
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[21:45] <fsphil> cool. didn't know that
[21:45] <steve_____> cartridge based
[21:45] <fsphil> I didn't have a z81 either, got a c64 instead :)
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[21:46] <steve_____> I think that was somewhere in the middlle
[21:46] <WILLdude> ibanezmatt13, pm
[21:46] <steve_____> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sega_SC-3000_wb.jpg
[21:46] <fsphil> cool
[21:46] <fsphil> that keyboard looks evil
[21:47] <steve_____> it was sponge like
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> I still have one of these.
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Z88
[21:47] <fsphil> similar sort of character set to the c64
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> It boots in a few seconds if given 4 AA batteries.
[21:47] <fsphil> but with the sinclair keys
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[21:47] <fsphil> ah now that's cool
[21:48] <fsphil> I love old computers
[21:48] <steve_____> I think Bletchly park is epic
[21:48] <steve_____> have you been
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> Too far.
[21:49] <ibanezmatt13> Irc.freenode.net and freenode dont work!
[21:49] <steve_____> if you go now you get to speak to the people who operated the Bombe machine while they are still alive
[21:49] <fsphil> I'll get there eventually
[21:49] <ibanezmatt13> Its asking for a password
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: What are you trying to do?
[21:50] <ibanezmatt13> Get an irc client for my win phone before internet shuttoff 11:00
[21:50] <steve_____> well it is almost criminal not to visit if you live in the UK and you like computers
[21:50] <ibanezmatt13> Got one but it wont connect
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[21:51] <ibanezmatt13> Not sure what credengials are
[21:51] <steve_____> you get to try and break the Colossus code
[21:51] <ibanezmatt13> Typing on a tablet
[21:52] <steve_____> they say it was as fast as a pentium computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer
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[21:52] <steve_____> was mechanical and used punch tape for input
[21:52] <steve_____> the faster the tape went the faster it processed
[21:53] <steve_____> got it up to 60 miles per hour and then the tape broke
[21:53] <steve_____> filled up the room before they could stop it
[21:53] <steve_____> :)
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[21:53] <steve_____> awsome
[21:53] <fsphil> gives new meaning to computer crash
[21:53] <fsphil> or old meaning I guess
[21:55] <steve_____> I think Bletchley Park has a significance for radio operations as well
[21:56] anerDev (~anerDev@host119-105-dynamic.13-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #highaltitude.
[21:56] <anerDev> hi guys
[21:56] <SpeedEvil> Hello
[21:56] <chrisstubbs> I went to quite an interesting talk at bletchley about baudot
[21:57] <ibanezmatt13> Afraid no luck in getting an irc app
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[21:57] <SpeedEvil> Oh dear.
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> Night then.
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[21:57] <ibanezmatt13> Gonna have to skgn out now, good nigh
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[21:58] <ibanezmatt13> Good night
[21:58] <steve_____> I think thats part of the Colossus code chrisstubbs - well at least 5 bit code with a shit
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[22:01] <anerDev> guys, with gqrx how can i watch a spectrum much weight ?
[22:01] <anerDev> for example
[22:01] <anerDev> from 500 Mhz to 700 Mhz
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[22:03] <KT5TK_QRL> You can only receive as wide as the badwidth of your receiver is.
[22:03] <KT5TK_QRL> If you use a RTL dongle this is about 2 MHz
[22:03] <anerDev> yes
[22:03] <anerDev> i'm using usb dongle
[22:03] <anerDev> rtl dongle
[22:04] <SpeedEvil> You can get 200MHz wide receivers, they are not cheap
[22:04] <anerDev> http://www.ebay.it/itm/190855889353?ssPageName=STRK:null:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1542.l2649
[22:04] <KT5TK_QRL> You could write a script or your own software to permanently change frequency and record the input signal
[22:04] <anerDev> I'm watching that in my country there are many signal withous sense ! Like this: http://d.pr/i/jqNO
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[22:04] <anerDev> KT5TK_QRL how ?
[22:05] <KT5TK_QRL> e.g by using rtl_fm in a loop
[22:06] <anerDev> i don't understand !
[22:07] <anerDev> and how can I analyze the signal ? for example what's this: http://d.pr/i/m86Q
[22:09] <Babs__> I've still got my Amiga
[22:09] <Babs__> I also still have a CD:TV
[22:09] <Babs__> If you remember that particular Amiga derivative fsphil
[22:12] <fsphil> I do!
[22:12] <fsphil> never did see one
[22:12] <fsphil> a friend had a CD32
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[22:13] <Babs__> I won it in a Computer & Video Games competition
[22:13] <Babs__> It wasn't any good
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[22:13] <Babs__> Although it did make a very nice CD player
[22:14] <Babs__> Phil - I am sure between us we could do a computers of yesteryear museum
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[22:15] <Babs__> My original iPod and mini disc player also need an airing
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[22:19] <fsphil> Babs__: suspect so
[22:20] <Babs__> Reading the wiki on cd:TV "it came with proprietary 64kb memory cards"
[22:20] <fsphil> hah
[22:21] <Babs__> I think a 64kb memory card must be on the limits of
[22:21] <fsphil> commodore kept trying the no-keyboard console format, never worked
[22:21] <Babs__> Being visually readable
[22:21] <fsphil> they where probably huge too
[22:21] <Babs__> Are commodore still going?
[22:21] <fsphil> nah, gone a long time now
[22:22] <Babs__> Having said that, I was at my moms a couple
[22:22] <fsphil> 1994
[22:22] <Babs__> Of years ago and got my
[22:22] <Babs__> Amiga down from the loft
[22:22] <Babs__> Booted up turricane II and completed it right off the bat
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:22] <fsphil> oh nice
[22:22] <fsphil> have to admit, never played that one
[22:23] <Babs__> Turricane II was mega
[22:23] <fsphil> might see if I can nab a copy
[22:23] <Babs__> What was weird it was a 2 hour completion
[22:23] <Babs__> And I could still remember my way around 20 years after I last played it
[22:24] <Babs__> I think I spent a whole year playing that and xenon II in my yog
[22:24] <Babs__> *Yoof
[22:24] <Babs__> It must be on an emulator somewhere
[22:24] <fsphil> I often wouldn't get past the first xenon-ii disk .. just listen to the music
[22:24] <Babs__> Bomb the bass iirc - epic
[22:24] <fsphil> yep
[22:26] <Babs__> We should bring floppy discs etc along to the conference and get WILLdude and ibanz in a head to head to try and identify what each one is
[22:26] <fsphil> lol
[22:26] <Babs__> Winner gets some UHU-por
[22:26] <fsphil> "it's not even in 3D"
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[22:27] <Babs__> Heh
[22:27] <Babs__> They would think a blinking cursor was a
[22:27] <Babs__> Mild swear word
[22:28] <Babs__> Right - I need sleep. Night y'all
[22:28] <fsphil> g'nite!
[22:29] <fsphil> I'm very tempted to boot up this thing and have a go at lemmings 2
[22:29] <steve_____> nn
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[22:47] <KT5TK_QRL> anerDev: http://d.pr/i/m86Q looks like a computer monitor that produces a lot of crap. Try to move your antenna away from your flatscreen or switch it of and remote control your computer with VNC to see if it goes away.
[22:50] <Steffanx> Heh, that's indeed that my screen does as well :(
[22:51] <Steffanx> it's terrible
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[00:00] --- Fri Jun 28 2013