highaltitude.log.20130626

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[00:31] <beingaware> beep Darkside
[00:31] <beingaware> you around?
[00:35] <beingaware> or does anyone have a guide on making a uhf beacon or something I can DX track for a ballooon?
[00:35] <daveake> Radiometrix module + batteries?
[00:44] <beingaware> is that all, just dropping constant carrier?
[00:48] <beingaware> I was going to make one of these
[00:48] <beingaware> http://www.instructables.com/id/433-MHz-UHF-lost-model-radio-beacon/?ALLSTEPS
[00:50] <beingaware> brb
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[05:39] Nick change: Hes_ -> Hes
[05:39] <costyn> morning all
[05:40] <arko> morning
[05:41] <griffonbot> Received email: Costyn van Dongen "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - 29th/30th June"
[05:42] <griffonbot> Received email: PhilipM "[UKHAS] Problem with habhub predict?"
[05:42] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Problem with habhub predict?"
[06:01] fz (~fz@c-98-207-169-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #highaltitude.
[06:03] <fz> Hi everyone. I'm getting started with high altitude balloons and I'm about to build my first balloon using a raspberry pi.. My (first) newbie question is what receiver I should buy. I'll use a NTX2 to transmit GPS and sensors information
[06:04] <fz> I read that you guys recommend FT-817ND but it's kinda expensive and overkill for me.
[06:04] <fz> Is the FT-790r good enough for balloon flights?
[06:05] <Darkside> sure is
[06:05] <Darkside> i think a lot of people here still use them
[06:13] <fz> Darkside: thanks
[06:14] <fz> Any idea where to buy one of those? :)
[06:14] <fz> Couldn't find it on ebay
[06:14] <Darkside> nope
[06:14] <Darkside> plenty of other options
[06:14] <Darkside> there are a number of scanners that will work
[06:15] <Darkside> as long as it can receive sideband (USB/LSB) on 434MHz, it'll do
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[06:18] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning :-)
[06:21] <ibanezmatt13> A nice big sheet of styrofoam arrived yesterday, just waiting for some UHUpor glue then I can begin!.
[06:23] <ibanezmatt13> We've decided to go for a base layer of 35x32cm. Once the 10cm high walls are installed, the inside space for our components will drop to 30x27cm which is what we've calculated.
[06:24] <ibanezmatt13> The lid will be made of one 35x32 layer attached to a 30x27 layer to ensure a good fit
[06:25] <ibanezmatt13> Itl
[06:25] <ibanezmatt13> Look more like a pizza box than a tall box if you see what I mean
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[06:45] <ibanezmatt13> Morning :)
[06:46] <eroomde> morning ibanezmatt13
[06:46] <ibanezmatt13> How's it going?
[06:49] <ibanezmatt13> Some styrofam arrived yesterday eroomde. Just waiting for the UHUpor glue and then I'll be making the box! Should be finished this weekend I hope :)
[06:50] <eroomde> nice
[06:50] <eroomde> standby lots of little balls covering the floor
[06:50] <ibanezmatt13> the material didn't look like it would create that problem when cutting
[06:51] <ibanezmatt13> There's always the hoover :P
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[06:56] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.airliners.net/photo/2276463/L/ smart
[06:58] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: an occupational hazard of this hobby is starting to get really excited about good connectors and switches and cables
[06:58] <eroomde> and switch panels
[06:58] <eroomde> !apollo+switch+panel
[06:58] <eroomde> killed it
[06:58] <eroomde> well anyway, there are some amazing things
[06:59] <ibanezmatt13> haha, shall I just google it
[07:00] <eroomde> really good switches that click really positively, and that are waterproof, on nice switch panels, are a good thing
[07:00] <ibanezmatt13> cool. I need some switches of that nature for my back garden raspberry pi project
[07:01] <eroomde> at work we often have to make specilisit bits of equipment for other people in the industry, eg we have made a fair number of sattelite propellant loading rigs, and quite like that aesthetic
[07:01] <eroomde> of nice control panels
[07:01] <eroomde> eg
[07:01] <eroomde> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VGwzLni4l4w/UEnAvL_dhTI/AAAAAAAADjY/Wz09Q-DGRhk/s320/Royal-Enfield-Bullet-Electra-Older-View.jpg
[07:01] <eroomde> er
[07:01] <eroomde> http://www.ael.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/fle_panel.jpg
[07:02] <ibanezmatt13> nice bike
[07:02] <eroomde> boss just bought one of them
[07:02] <ibanezmatt13> that second one looks complex, what is it?
[07:03] <eroomde> it's for loading sattelitesd with fuel
[07:03] <eroomde> satelites*
[07:03] <ibanezmatt13> wow, excellent
[07:03] <eroomde> satellites*
[07:03] <ibanezmatt13> My garden project: I'm gonna have a big water butt and a pump and several little sprinkler tubes running to different places in the garden controlled by different valves which will be openend and closed with the Pi. A nice set of those switches to control everything would be nice. I was even thinking of writing a GUI to control the irrigation of certain parts of the garden. :)
[07:04] <eroomde> nice
[07:04] <eroomde> well yes, making the whole thing >=ip66 will help
[07:04] <ibanezmatt13> what's ip66?
[07:05] <eroomde> http://www.euroboxenclosures.co.uk/IP-Ratings-Explained.php
[07:05] <eroomde> environment proof rating
[07:05] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right, yes definitely
[07:05] <eroomde> first digit is dust, second is water
[07:06] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, didn't know that
[07:06] <eroomde> i usually aim for ip66 parts
[07:06] <eroomde> or 67, or 68
[07:06] <ibanezmatt13> nice
[07:07] <eroomde> lots of milspec connectors will say things like 'ip67 when mated'
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[07:07] <Willdude123> Hello
[07:07] <eroomde> morning Willdude123
[07:07] <ibanezmatt13> morning will :)
[07:07] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: panel mount stuff will usually come with gaskets too
[07:07] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, that's good
[07:08] <eroomde> like a sort of rubber washer of the right shape to keep the panel-mountaing seal ip67 or whatever
[07:08] <ibanezmatt13> Our payload box has a 35x32cm base. When the walls are attached we get a component space of 30x27cm. The walls will be 10cm high and the lid will have one panel of 35x32cm and a smalle one of 30x27cm for a nice fit. Will that be ok? It's more like a pizza box than a HAB box
[07:08] <eroomde> yup
[07:09] <ibanezmatt13> Excellent
[07:09] <eroomde> might not be megga aerodynamkc
[07:09] <eroomde> but it doesn;t have to be
[07:09] <eroomde> try dropping it a few times
[07:09] <ibanezmatt13> dropping it?
[07:09] <ibanezmatt13> Even very gently touching it dents it
[07:10] <ibanezmatt13> Although I have been notified of the "drop down stairs" test :)
[07:11] <eroomde> yes
[07:11] <eroomde> if you are not happy to do that, be careful about flying
[07:11] <eroomde> they really can come down with a thump
[07:12] <ibanezmatt13> I guess so long as it survives the flight it should be fine. Destruction on landing should be ok. I mean, with my radio setup it's not like I'll get anything below 2000ft anyway even if I'm under it
[07:13] <daveake> Well you want the tracker to still be working
[07:13] <eroomde> no, you need it working on the ground to find it
[07:13] <number10> tape batteries in any connectors
[07:13] <eroomde> ewhat daveake said
[07:14] <ibanezmatt13> It should survive
[07:14] <ibanezmatt13> I could always cushion the components but that's extra weight
[07:15] <daveake> make sure the innards can't bounce around. If that means strapping them down or gluing or padding then do it
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[07:16] <ibanezmatt13> I'll tightly cable tie them
[07:16] <ibanezmatt13> That seems to work on the piece of cardboard everything's strapped to currently
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[07:20] <daveake> And as eroomde said, tape over batteries in their holder, and tape connectors down
[07:20] <Willdude123> I think my client disconnected me for some reason.
[07:20] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, will definitely do that
[07:20] <daveake> One of mine rebooted on landing even though I had taped the batteries. Didn't tape them enough
[07:21] <Willdude123> I'm going to go to maplin today to pick up the right resistora
[07:21] <Willdude123> *resistors
[07:21] <daveake> Normally a reboot wouldn't make any odds but in this case it was programmed to upload photos via ftp after landing, and the reboot meant it was still in pre-flight mode
[07:22] <ibanezmatt13> daveake I've got a bash script naming my video files as the time they were taken. If the Pi reboots, is there a risk of them being overwritten as the Pi doesn't have a real time operating systsem? To avoid this, after each video I was going to move it to another directory: record in one, store in another
[07:22] <Willdude123> I'm also going to try and find an irssi script which censors or removes swear words from messages I send. Not that I will, but it's a good precaution.
[07:23] <daveake> Yes, and that's good thinking btw :).
[07:23] <ibanezmatt13> thanks :)
[07:23] <ibanezmatt13> I'll probably do it anyway to keep things organised
[07:23] <daveake> 'cos HAB has a habit of biting you in the bum over things like that
[07:23] <eroomde> it's also a good idea (maybe) to check that a file doesn't already exist before you create it
[07:24] <daveake> yup
[07:24] <ibanezmatt13> yeah I could do that too
[07:24] <eroomde> but it sounds like your method is quite robust anyway
[07:24] <daveake> and before launch, delete all the old crud so you don't run out of space during the flight :)
[07:24] <Willdude123> You videoing and SSDVing images?
[07:24] <ibanezmatt13> oh yes of course
[07:24] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123, not SSDV first time
[07:24] <ibanezmatt13> even though I got it working, my Dad reckons we should stick to video for a first launch
[07:25] <ibanezmatt13> Perhaps if I had a spare HD camera I would do
[07:25] <eroomde> join Team GoPro
[07:25] <Willdude123> Someone invent FSDV or FSTV so we can have images!
[07:25] <eroomde> (for a second flight when you think you can get it back)
[07:26] <Willdude123> Wait. Do fstv and fsdv exist?
[07:26] <eroomde> yes
[07:26] <ibanezmatt13> yeah exactly, don't want to give too many valubules to the North Sea
[07:26] <eroomde> they're called 'TV'
[07:26] <eroomde> SS is to differentiate from normal TV
[07:26] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: she gets them all eventually
[07:26] <daveake> The North Sea has enough of our kit already
[07:26] <daveake> Well enough of mine anyway
[07:26] <ibanezmatt13> That's not great
[07:27] <eroomde> our second flight ever we went to jessops to get 6 new kodak digital cameras (this was before chdk was a thing) with a view to flying them and then repackagaing them and returning them
[07:27] <Darkside> wat
[07:27] <Darkside> oh
[07:27] <eroomde> spent *a lot* of money on them
[07:27] <daveake> So long as you don't think "that prediction is a bit close to the coast but I'll fly anyway", and you get the fill right, you'll be fine
[07:27] <ibanezmatt13> wow
[07:27] <eroomde> and of course it went 500km out to sea
[07:27] <eroomde> before we abandoned it and went to the pub
[07:27] <Willdude123> But if it lands in france, you can have a day trip :-)
[07:27] <eroomde> but it was the first time anyone had properly range testing 50 baud rtty
[07:28] <eroomde> and i guess we were pleased we could do a few hundred km
[07:28] <ibanezmatt13> I beginning to doubt that Cambridge is a good location for habbing, it's not far off the east cost really and we do have a Westily prevailing wind
[07:28] <eroomde> we were trying to find positives anyway
[07:28] <eroomde> yes, it's not ideal in that respect
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[07:28] <eroomde> but we never really had tree landings
[07:28] <eroomde> but it is why we wrote the predictor
[07:28] <ibanezmatt13> you wrote the predictor?
[07:28] <eroomde> if we were to launch in arizona we'd probably just say something like
[07:29] <daveake> Cambridge does need gentler winds but the area is so good for landings
[07:29] <eroomde> 'well, it just gone doggon land where they lord jesus gonna make in doggon land'
[07:29] <eroomde> and be done with it
[07:29] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[07:29] <eroomde> but proximity to danger (the sea) is quite motivating
[07:29] <Darkside> if you're really concerned about landing in teh sea, then come to ausrtralia and launch here
[07:29] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes that's a great idea
[07:29] <Darkside> we have about 1500km of range before you hit ocean again
[07:29] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: yep, the predictor is a cusf invention
[07:29] <Darkside> even with that, we've managed to drop payloads in teh sea a few times
[07:30] <daveake> where you can still land an overnight flight 1 miles out to sea :)
[07:30] <Willdude123> eroomde, 50baud sounds impressive, my internet is nearly as fast as that!
[07:30] <Darkside> daveake: yeah
[07:30] <Darkside> actually iy was a few km
[07:30] <Darkside> but anwyay
[07:30] <daveake> ah ok
[07:30] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, depending on the winds and the predictor, it may be worth launching west of Cambridge
[07:30] <Darkside> ibanezmatt13: you jsut wait for a day whre launching from cambridge is acceptable
[07:31] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, should be fine
[07:31] <ibanezmatt13> jesus, I didn't know coffee could be spicy!
[07:32] Action: ibanezmatt13 pours horrible coffee down sink
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[07:33] <eroomde> coffee and hab
[07:33] <eroomde> off to a good start
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[07:33] <ibanezmatt13> indeed
[07:35] <Willdude123> Right I'm off to school.
[07:35] <Willdude123> Bye people!
[07:35] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, you not at school today?
[07:36] <ibanezmatt13> finished GCSE's last week, off for summer, college in September
[07:36] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[07:36] <Willdude123> Ah right.
[07:36] <Willdude123> Lucky.
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[07:37] <Willdude123> I have 3 and a bit more school years of this hellhole.
[07:37] <daveake> best days of your life (TM)
[07:38] <ibanezmatt13> The only part of school which really is amazing are your final years, particularly the last one
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[07:40] <fz> Darkside: Tried to look for alternatives to FT-790R on ebay but couldn't find anyone. There are some 790R on ebay.co.uk but they don't ship to us
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[07:41] <eroomde> fz: where are you?
[07:41] <fz> california
[07:41] <fz> USA
[07:41] <fsphil> was wondering where that was
[07:41] <eroomde> :)
[07:41] <Darkside> cahleeforniaa
[07:42] <eroomde> the arnie pronunciation?
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[07:47] <ibanezmatt13> right, off downstairs for a bit to measure and pencil mark my styrofoam. Laters :)
[07:48] <daveake> pencil will be too sharp use a felt/fibre pen
[07:51] <ibanezmatt13> ah right ok
[07:51] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[07:52] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: have you looked at babs' flickr?
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[07:52] <number10> thats a little complex - but very nice
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[07:53] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde, no
[07:54] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/sets/72157632733154985/
[07:54] <eroomde> scroll down to the blue polystyrene
[07:54] <eroomde> admire
[07:55] <fsphil> tis an amazing thing
[07:55] <Darkside> wow
[07:55] <Darkside> purty
[07:59] <number10> cant see any photos of it after landing - wonder if it got damaged much
[07:59] <eroomde> bit muddy apparently
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[09:01] <ibanezmatt13> wow, that's one amazing box
[09:13] <LazyLeopard> Came down a little hard, I think.
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[09:52] <griffonbot> Received email: Jonas Allesson "[UKHAS] A few (perhaps crazy) questions"
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[10:12] Nick change: Chetich -> Chetic
[10:13] Action: HixWork is now in possession of a 3v3 FTDI cable
[10:13] <HixWork> & the wrong size resonators for the IMU board :/
[10:14] <HixWork> damn Farnell and the £20 min order value
[10:19] <gonzo_> are thay doing that now. hmmm. RS started that too
[10:19] <fsphil> CPC don't, but do charge a "handling fee"
[10:26] <HixWork> I've never understood why there is CPC and Farnell
[10:26] <gonzo_> were seperate co's till recently
[10:26] <gonzo_> well, a few years ago
[10:26] <number10> I think cpc was bought out by farnel
[10:26] <fsphil> fair few years now
[10:27] <fsphil> I registered on both many years ago, and couldn't use the same username because of the shared db
[10:27] <gonzo_> do RS still have electrovalue, as their hobbiest sales?
[10:27] <HixWork> not heard of electrovalue. think just RS in th eUK
[10:28] <gonzo_> ev was a cut down RS catalogue, but with a min order charge
[10:28] <gonzo_> hmmm, sounds familiar
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[10:31] Nick change: nick__ -> nick_
[10:32] <HixWork> arse VM cannot open FTDI as it thinks it is in use
[10:32] <HixWork> win version of CuteCOM anyone?
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[10:34] <Steffanx> I liked hterm, HixWork, but it looks more advanced than CuteCom and .. ( some have trouble with a high cpu usage )
[10:35] <Steffanx> http://www.der-hammer.info/terminal/ <= that hterm, not hyperterminal
[10:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - XABEN-51 Tuesday 25/06/2013"
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[10:38] <HixWork> cheers Steffanx. Schnittstelle my new word of the day :)
[10:40] <Steffanx> Heh
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[10:41] <HixWork> literally translated crossing place. sort of makes sense
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[10:52] <HixWork> OH WOW Steffanx Thats really useful. Hex aswell as ascii in the data received. perfect for what i wanted to do.
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[11:03] <HixWork> ping Ugi
[11:06] <Chetic> guess I need to rethink my choice of rtl sdr
[11:07] <Chetic> mcx to sma adapters seem to cost at least $30
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[11:07] <fsphil> ebay?
[11:07] <mfa298> You could always go via bnc. Or if you've got passable soldering skills make something up.
[11:08] <fsphil> yea, remove the mcx socket
[11:08] <Darkside> MCX is a bitch to solder
[11:08] <daveake> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMA-plug-to-MCX-plug-right-angle-pigtail-cable-RG316-/300417605637?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones_Communication_Coax_Cables_Connectors&hash=item45f248e005 for example
[11:08] <Darkside> and theres nothing you can replace the socket with
[11:08] <fsphil> oh
[11:08] <Darkside> the sockets are too small
[11:08] <Darkside> cant fit a SMA on it
[11:08] <mfa298> I've got a mcx - bnc cable by cutting the cable on the antenna that came with it and putting a bnc on the spare end
[11:08] <Darkside> heh
[11:08] <Darkside> oh they have decent coax on them?
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[11:09] <Darkside> my dongle (Which had a belling-lee connector) had twinlead for the antenna cable
[11:09] <Darkside> not coax
[11:09] <HixWork> Cheltic cosycave sell them leads ~£1.50
[11:09] <Darkside> which was interesting
[11:09] <mfa298> Not sure how good it is - I don't think it was marked. But I worked on the principle that 10cm of anything passable should work
[11:09] <x-f> mine came with RG174
[11:09] <Darkside> nice
[11:09] <Darkside> easy
[11:09] <gonzo_> it prob does not matter if you are downstream of the lna
[11:10] <mfa298> Considering I've generally used it on a T piece with some other reciver and have PL259s in the cable as well it does pretty well
[11:10] <HixWork> Chetic, http://goo.gl/Bi3v7 here £1.45
[11:11] <gonzo_> I built a 2mtr LNA based on one of these new mmics, and looks like I am going to have to put lost of atten after it
[11:11] <Darkside> mm
[11:11] <gonzo_> gain and NF are cheap these days
[11:11] <Darkside> how much gain does the MMIC have?
[11:11] <Darkside> 20+dB?
[11:11] <gonzo_> about 24db
[11:11] <Darkside> the one in the habamps has about 24ish at VHF/UHF
[11:12] <gonzo_> this is one of the pga103 ones
[11:12] <Darkside> k
[11:12] <gonzo_> I have an lpf and a couple of notches in, for use on a contest site
[11:12] <gonzo_> but still recon it will flatten the following radio
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[11:19] <gonzo_> there is an interesting talk, in the archive section of the BATC site, from the 2012 convention
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[11:20] <gonzo_> one on preamos, and aniother very good one on antenna feeds and baluns
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[11:23] <Ugi> Hi HixWork - sorry I was working!
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[11:24] <HixWork> no worries, did you get the MC55 modules?
[11:24] <Ugi> No - I forgot to watch and was out-bid. They went for a steal so I was pretty gutted.
[11:24] <Ugi> I always plan to bid last-minute and then forget!
[11:24] <HixWork> Bummer
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[11:25] <Ugi> How are you getting on with yours?
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[11:26] <HixWork> waiting for the PCBs from hackvana then I've got to get a stencil for them. But stencil works out at ~£45 for smaller than A5.
[11:28] <Ugi> There has to be a cheaper way than that - have you looked at sitopway?
[11:29] <HixWork> yeah, they came back this morning with $45, guessin it could be ~3weeks suppose that'll have to do.
[11:30] <Ugi> They aren't likely to take that long but that's pretty pricy. They courier everything so you get their PCBs in around 7-10 days to UK
[11:31] <Ugi> e-bay suggests $20: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290748969337
[11:31] <Ugi> Maybe that's before postage
[11:32] <HixWork> think that is to keep their costs down. they quoted $20 plus $10 ofr laser and $15 for DHL, said to buy it now then adjust payment
[11:32] Nick change: daveake1 -> daveake
[11:33] <Ugi> small pich size? They do charge extra to laser rather than etch
[11:33] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] A few (perhaps crazy) questions"
[11:34] <Ugi> I wonder whether stencils could be made on an "ordinary" laser cutter out of acetate or similar
[11:34] <HixWork> Ugi, yes, thats the reason. found this, but not sure if quality is any good http://www.smtstencil.co.uk/
[11:34] <HixWork> cheap, quality, working. pick two...
[11:36] <Ugi> Yeah - it might depend how often you expect to use it.
[11:36] <Ugi> I guess a polymer stencil would be fine for use once or twice.
[11:36] <Ugi> If you're making dozens then no-doubt SS is better
[11:40] Action: HixWork has just been caught on the net looking at syringes
[11:40] <HixWork> took some expolaining
[11:40] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:41] <HixWork> for solder paste..... youoknow for PCBs - no not them PCBs, circuit boards ones
[11:42] <Ugi> Oops! :-)
[11:43] <Ugi> HixWork - do I remember right that you had requested some samples from Atmel?
[11:43] <HixWork> I did 3 of each 328 644 and X128 got them no issues
[11:44] <HixWork> also got some 3axis accelerometers from Analog for the IMU ;p
[11:44] <HixWork> samples ftw
[11:44] <Chetic> daveake / HixWork : thanks for the links!
[11:44] <Chetic> I should shop by ebay more often
[11:44] <HixWork> nps
[11:45] <Ugi> How long did Atmel take to tell you they were sending them?
[11:45] <daveake> If you don't mind waiting, people like ChinaRF have all sorts of stuff very cheap
[11:45] <Ugi> I put in a cheaky request but haven't heard anything.
[11:47] <HixWork> Ugi about 30 mins. did you use a hotmail, gmail etc address?
[11:47] <Ugi> daveake - http://www.china-rf.com/ ? Site is only in Chinese!
[11:47] <Ugi> No, I used my ugilabs.co.uk address
[11:47] <Chetic> who would've thought!
[11:47] <LeoBodnar> I have used smtstencil.co.uk in the past. It can be used for 10-50 PCBs no problem as soon as they are not large as plastic is not dimensionally stable. 10x10cm is OK. The guy's name is Andy Nicol.
[11:47] <HixWork> http://goo.gl/hOAMs bingo. seems to be 0.260mm i.d so hopefully good enough
[11:48] <HixWork> ah nice LeoBodnar didn't thinkn to ask you
[11:48] <daveake> Ugi They're on ebay
[11:48] <HixWork> have you used needles before LeoBodnar - for solder paste :)
[11:49] <Ugi> Ah - ok. Nearly everything in my bits box is from Chinese e-bay suppliers!
[11:49] <Ugi> Always on the lookout for new good ones.
[11:50] <HixWork> Ugi bitsbox in the UK are pretty good
[11:50] <LeoBodnar> My colleague here uses them and swears by them. I use stencils. I can send you a sample of smtstencil.co.uk stuff if you want to have a look at them - I have a few sheets left that I don't need.
[11:50] <LeoBodnar> Andy sends out free samples I think.
[11:50] <HixWork> right gonna give smtstencil a whirl and buy some syringes with the savings on £45 :)
[11:51] <HixWork> ooh free samples as in my design free samples LeoBodnar?
[11:51] <LeoBodnar> By the way pcb-pool gives you a free stencil with the order so it might work out cheaper.
[11:51] <Ugi> HixWork: sounds like a good plan! £14 is much more realistic for a one-off
[11:51] <SpeedEvil> smtstencil hangs out on ##electronics as shrdlu
[11:51] <HixWork> ok cool
[11:51] <SpeedEvil> shrdlu- now
[11:51] <HixWork> ok
[11:51] <Ugi> There is another listing of the MC55is
[11:51] <Ugi> More realistic starting price
[11:52] <Ugi> but I might go for them.... if I remember
[11:52] <HixWork> I saw. maybe send him a message and offer him a price - he evidently has a stockpile
[11:53] <Ugi> Interesting thought - I might do that.
[11:56] <HixWork> bbl - lunchtime :D
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[12:24] <WILLdude> Hello.
[12:25] <WILLdude> I didn't have the chance to talk to my teacher today
[12:25] <WILLdude> ]So the next time I can really is next tusesday.
[12:26] <WILLdude> Which is after all my exams are done.
[12:28] <WILLdude> Can someone explain to me the math used in the NTX2 tutorial?
[12:29] <HixWork> the voltage divider?
[12:31] <number10> WILLdude: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_divider
[12:33] <HixWork> WILLdude, "for each 1Hz change in frequency you need to change the voltage by 0.0005v (3 divided 6000) so to get a shift of 500hz you need to toggle the voltage applied to the TXD pin by 500×0.0005=0.25v."
[12:33] <WILLdude> And how do you change the voltage when the NTX 2 is digital?
[12:34] <eroomde> it isn;t digital
[12:34] <WILLdude> I mean the arduino
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[12:35] <WILLdude> Oh so it goes between 0.25 and 0v?
[12:35] <eroomde> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_divider#Resistive_divider
[12:36] <WILLdude> Because surely 0v from the arduino is 0v pure and simple?
[12:36] <HixWork> space and mark are offset by this voltage difference
[12:37] <mfa298> In the digrams the arduino is modelled as a simple switch moving between logic high (5v) and logic low (0v) which is how the two diagrams come about
[12:38] <mattbrejza> when you put 0V into the resistor network you get ~2.25V, and when you put 5V into it you get ~2.5V out
[12:38] <mattbrejza> (cant remember the actual output voltages)
[12:38] <WILLdude> How can you get a voltage out of 0v though?
[12:38] <mattbrejza> because the resistor netowrk is connected to 5V
[12:38] <WILLdude> Surely 0v is 0v is no power.
[12:38] <WILLdude> Ah right.
[12:39] <WILLdude> I understand now.
[12:39] <mattbrejza> so thats where the voltage 'comes from'
[12:40] <daveake> The 5V pulls the NTX2 signal pin up a bit, and 0V pulls it down a bit.
[12:41] <WILLdude> ah right./
[12:41] <WILLdude> Anyone know of a self-censorship script for irssi?
[12:42] <eroomde> no, because that would be stupid
[12:42] <eroomde> you just don;t think 'i know, i'll sit here and type a swear word'
[12:42] <eroomde> not difficult
[12:42] <mfa298> when you've got the time to work through it you might want to grab some paper and draw out the various states and see if you can get from there to the sets of formula on the wiki
[12:42] <WILLdude> I could just not swear. Yeah
[12:42] <mattbrejza> typing /quit can also be effective
[12:43] <WILLdude> typing /part would be better.
[12:43] <mfa298> or for some old school dancing go for /disco
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[12:44] <HixWork> go for a /
[12:44] <daveake> ^ beat me to it :)
[12:44] <WILLdude> a / ?
[12:45] <fsphil> hehe
[12:45] <mfa298> in terms of swearing it's much better to train yourself not to do it.
[12:45] <fsphil> save the swear moments for when you really need them :)
[12:45] <fsphil> they're more effective that way
[12:45] <mfa298> WILLdude: a different way to think of it is: if you swear all the time, what will you use when things go really wrong? (you don't need to answer it)
[12:46] <daveake> belgium
[12:46] <fsphil> language daveake
[12:47] <daveake> oh, sorry
[12:47] <daveake> flemish
[12:47] <fsphil> I've been through belgium twice in a bus -- only stopped the once
[12:48] <daveake> for a / ?
[12:48] <fsphil> yep!
[12:48] <daveake> ha!
[12:48] <HixWork> not frittes?
[12:48] <daveake> Bruges is lovely. Antwerp too. Ghent and Leuwen not bad.
[12:48] <daveake> with mayo
[12:49] <HixWork> Spa is very nice when the rain is over the other side of the fiorest for 30 mins
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[13:28] <HixWork> got FTDI 3v3 and now I cant get a GPS lock in the sodding office. grrr humph
[13:42] <Ugi> Is there an easy way that I can convert the output of my payload into something that google earth can plot?
[13:42] <Ugi> I have no receiver ATM but I have SD card data
[13:43] <Ugi> I just want to see that it's returning sensible GPS data
[13:44] <HixWork> gpsvisualiser.com
[13:44] <Ugi> Fab'
[13:44] <Darkside> i have some python scripts that convert fldigi logs to kml
[13:45] <Darkside> if you're just writing the transmitted sentence to SD that'd work too
[13:45] <Ugi> Yep - only I don't think I have anything that will run a python script.
[13:46] <Ugi> gpsvisualiser.com seems to be a place-holder
[13:46] <HixWork> gps visualiser should pull the lat lon from the file and spit out a kml easy enough
[13:46] <HixWork> http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/
[13:46] <HixWork> sorry - damn americanisms :)
[13:46] <Ugi> Ah. Gotit
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[13:47] <HixWork> or even pull it into excel and cut out the lat lon and then feed it that
[13:48] <HixWork> as , delimited
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[13:54] <Ugi> Yay! I now have 400 red pins centred around my back patio!
[13:54] <HixWork> it worked then?
[13:55] <Ugi> 100%
[13:55] <Ugi> Furthest outlying points are around 200ft from the true location. Is that typical?
[13:56] <HixWork> there is a fairt bit of scatter
[13:56] <Ugi> 98% are within 100ft
[13:56] <HixWork> ooh slipped out a posh fart then
[13:56] <fsphil> hehe
[13:56] <fsphil> one does amuse
[13:56] <HixWork> one does beg excusing
[13:57] <HixWork> i like my new word
[13:57] <HixWork> I think i shall submit it to the Viz profannisaurus
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[14:02] <HixWork> is it safe to come back in yet?
[14:02] <fsphil> just aboot
[14:02] <HixWork> I'll open the windows
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[14:04] <Ugi> That GPSvisuliZer will also conver to Google Earth format, so I have lots of little squares on my patio on Google earth too now!
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[14:07] <eroomde> awk will convert to google earth format
[14:07] <HixWork> hmm, randomly stumbled on some useful gimbal info http://web.media.mit.edu/~wad/mas864/ eroomde costyn
[14:07] <eroomde> mumble mumble get off my lawn
[14:07] <daveake> Some tips for you HixWork http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8762zEOkSo
[14:08] <HixWork> I'm knida hoping that wasn't bookmarked daveake :)
[14:09] <daveake> lol no saw it earlier, coincidentally
[14:09] <eroomde> HixWork: 3D reconstruction from images?
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[14:10] <HixWork> there is some filtering code in there too. not had time to read it properly but there seems a fair bit of info buried in there
[14:15] <HixWork> I also figure it could be a good resource for Babs' idea about the eclipse stailised cam
[14:15] <eroomde> just read McKay
[14:15] <eroomde> mackay*
[14:16] <eroomde> it can be fruitless to read a million specific instances of papers about doing specific things
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[14:16] <eroomde> when they're all 95% the same thing
[14:16] <eroomde> and that's all in mackay
[14:17] <eroomde> and people on the internet get confused *a lot* once you get to degree-level stuff, i find
[14:17] <daveake> You could stop at the second *
[14:17] <eroomde> so reading non-peer reviewed stuff can be super fruitless, and reading peer-reviewed stuff still can be BS
[14:18] <eroomde> much better to just go away and grok the maths from fundamentals
[14:18] <eroomde> true for all x
[14:18] <eroomde> except antenna radiation pattern simulation
[14:19] <eroomde> that will make you go mad
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[14:20] <mfa298> for antennas just learn to use EZNEC
[14:20] <mfa298> and then realise it probably won't be as perfect as your simulations
[14:20] <mfa298> so just go make something and see how it works
[14:21] <eroomde> yes
[14:21] <eroomde> though that's expensive for what i'm doing atm
[14:21] <mfa298> then tweak it to make it better
[14:22] <eroomde> but yes, i'd like something to get me 90% of the way there in simulation
[14:23] <mfa298> EZNEC does seem to be the way to go, just needs some practice to understand it - like all specialist software.
[14:24] <mfa298> which is always my problem. I want to install it, plug some stuff and and get results without spending the time first learning how it works
[14:25] Action: eroomde googles
[14:25] <eroomde> OH GOD WINDOWS
[14:26] <craag> eznec is the only reason I have an xp vm
[14:26] <eroomde> wine?
[14:26] <craag> Wouldn't work last time I tried.
[14:27] <craag> Wasn't the latest version though, so I'll try it again at some point.
[14:29] <HixWork> eroomde, this "Information Theory, Inference, and Learning Algorithms"
[14:29] <eroomde> yes
[14:29] <eroomde> it's a bit of a textbook really
[14:29] <eroomde> but probably the best one i own
[14:30] <eroomde> so can eznec handle complicated shapes?
[14:30] <HixWork> http://goo.gl/jMVZX it's freely downloadable from cam.ac.uk
[14:33] <eroomde> yes
[14:33] <eroomde> though i have 2 paper copies
[14:33] <eroomde> one for work, one for home
[14:33] <Randomskk> it's a wonderful book
[14:34] <mfa298> eroomde: I believe you can do some quite complicated designs in it but you'll probably need a paid version to have enough wires/segments to play with
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[14:37] <eroomde> i thought nec was free?
[14:38] <eroomde> i guess that's just the libs right
[14:38] <mfa298> with EZNEC there's a free version that's supposed to be good enough to basic antennas but if you want more wires etc you have to pay. I think it's based on NEC4 which might be free but might require more work. It's not something I've looked at.
[14:40] <Randomskk> hey eroomde, talking of mackay
[14:40] <Randomskk> https://plus.google.com/114005052144439249039/posts/Xix28PRr6cH
[14:41] <eroomde> THAT@S AMAZING
[14:42] <Randomskk> or really awkward, I can't tell
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[14:43] <eroomde> jens can pull it off
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[15:01] <ibanezmatt13> Good Afternoon :)
[15:02] <ibanezmatt13> Look what I've done: http://sdrv.ms/11NpGi7 :)
[15:02] <ibanezmatt13> http://sdrv.ms/15FE78Q
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[15:03] <ibanezmatt13> the actual box: http://sdrv.ms/15FEdgP
[15:04] <ibanezmatt13> Thought I'd only get it done on the weekend :)
[15:04] <mfa298> at this rate you'll be flying it at the weekend !
[15:05] <ibanezmatt13> Yes!
[15:05] <ibanezmatt13> By the way, when cutting styrofoam, only use a panel saw, don't mess about with knives
[15:05] <ibanezmatt13> The panel saw is perfect for it
[15:06] <ibanezmatt13> Just wondering, what's the method of properly applying the UHUpor glue?
[15:06] <daveake> What it says on the tube :)
[15:06] <ibanezmatt13> Not got the tube yet :)
[15:07] <daveake> Apply to one surface; bring surfaces together briefly; wait 5 mins or so; push together
[15:07] <ibanezmatt13> Is it just a squirt on and hold job or do I have to apply some to a cloth and rub it on?
[15:07] <ibanezmatt13> together briefly?
[15:07] <daveake> So you get a film of glue on both surfaces
[15:08] <daveake> Just rub them together then separate, wait for it to dry, then (carefully) align and push together
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[15:08] <ibanezmatt13> So they will stick together even when the glue is dry?
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[15:09] <daveake> well it's tacky not dry
[15:09] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks daveake
[15:09] <ibanezmatt13> that was
[15:09] <ibanezmatt13> ignore that
[15:10] <ibanezmatt13> How should I stick my payload into the box? I need a secure fit in the bottom. I was thinking some more cable ties but then I wondered about the cable ties being exposed and the little holes letting cold air in
[15:11] <daveake> Yeah you don't want holes letting cold air in esp. when it's descending
[15:11] <ibanezmatt13> hmm.
[15:11] <ibanezmatt13> http://sdrv.ms/191ERML
[15:11] <ibanezmatt13> That's the payload equipment cable tied to some cardboard
[15:12] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not really keen on gluing the components
[15:12] <ibanezmatt13> celotape would be a disaster
[15:12] <daveake> Put in an internal partition and tie-wrap to that
[15:13] <daveake> Or ... build walls round the board / nbatteries / etc so they can't move much
[15:13] <ibanezmatt13> I've not really got much styrofoam left. Is there any other material that would be ok for that?
[15:13] <daveake> correx which is corrugated plastic
[15:13] <ibanezmatt13> lightweight?
[15:14] <daveake> ye
[15:14] <daveake> s
[15:15] <ibanezmatt13> the box alone currently weighs 408g. The payload stuff weighs just over 300g. That doesn't include the coax cable either. We're pushing the weight a bit. Don't want to go more than 800g really
[15:15] <daveake> 400g sounds heavy but that is a fairly large box
[15:16] <ibanezmatt13> it is pretty big, but that's how big my payload contents will need it to be
[15:16] <daveake> My first flight was 1kg. Anything below that is fine really
[15:17] <ibanezmatt13> of course, for another launch, I'd design the box first instead of soldering everything together and having to design the box around that
[15:17] <ibanezmatt13> It should be less than 1k
[15:18] <daveake> I've done a regular camera payload in about 200g, but not with a Pi of course.
[15:18] <ibanezmatt13> with those programmable chips?
[15:18] <ibanezmatt13> Or your own PCB or something?
[15:18] <daveake> One of Upu's
[15:18] <daveake> Used the camera batteries to run the tracker
[15:19] <ibanezmatt13> That's why I'm learning C. I'd love to be able to program a little chip myself like the ATMEGA328. So lightweight. Using the camera batteries would save a fair bit of weight
[15:21] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: just back to an earlier point. If I used some styrofoam as another internal layer for the cable ties, that would restrict the space in the box (which I guess is not really needed anyway), but would styrofoam be lighter than correx?
[15:22] <daveake> Probably but I've never compared them
[15:22] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, I'll see what I can do with the remaining styrofoam. Regarding free space in the box, I guess I don't need much?
[15:23] <daveake> nope
[15:23] <ibanezmatt13> excellent.
[15:23] <ibanezmatt13> Right, off to the garage to get some styrofoam
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[15:28] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: I have enough styrofoam for the job daveake. I'll probably have to use several pieces to create the area I need (they've ben cut quite small) and I'll probably also cut it thinner too seen as I already have a base layer. Probably go for 1cm thick
[15:28] <ibanezmatt13> I'll jst push the cable ties through that
[15:28] <daveake> cool
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[15:30] <chrisstubbs> Fantastic, UPS have delivered my package to a neighbor that now refuses to open the door to us.
[15:30] <ibanezmatt13> lol, Hi chrisstubbs
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[15:34] <ibanezmatt13> I don't know whether this is a stupid question daveake, but could I not just trim the carboard that the components are currently cable tied to and put that in the box? That would save messing about with styrofoam again, but if it's a bad idea please let me know
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[15:35] <daveake> Well, I've avoided cardboard as it might wick water to the electronics if the payload lands in a lake or river or (worse, much worse) at sea
[15:35] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, would styrofoam be much better?
[15:35] <daveake> Yes
[15:36] <ibanezmatt13> ok then. I'll do that
[15:37] <ibanezmatt13> I'd probably better start looking at getting permission from the old CAA soon
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[15:41] <chrisstubbs> oh wow the UPS customer support woman was a total b***h too
[15:44] <HixWork> Send UPS a nice turd
[15:44] <SpeedEvil> chrisstubbs: what was the box?
[15:44] <SpeedEvil> ^in
[15:47] <GW8RAK> UPS causing someone else grief?
[15:48] <GW8RAK> Sent a parcel to Switzerland and one to Norway, both ended up in Harlow.
[15:48] <chrisstubbs> GW8RAK, yep
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> GW8RAK: that takes skill.
[15:48] <GW8RAK> When they got to the correct countries, they then went to different ends of those countries.
[15:49] <chrisstubbs> "I knocked at the door but the woman would not open it" "did you speak to the woman?" "she didnt open the door" "have you tried going to her house"
[15:49] <chrisstubbs> at that point I had had enough
[15:49] <chrisstubbs> SpeedEvil, just some electronic bits
[15:50] <GW8RAK> UPS account number was on the consignment note, but some clever person photocopied them with a piece of paper over just account number.
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[15:53] <chrisstubbs> How can they say "The package was delivered to the residence" when they didnt even give it to the right house. They could have just thrown it in the road and said it was delivered
[15:53] <Babs_> ping eroomde
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[15:58] <HixWork> I seem to find that getting stuff couriered to work addresses works much better.
[15:58] <mfa298> at the point of couriers being akward I'd ask them to provide the signature of who signed for it (and state that it's not your signature)
[15:58] <chrisstubbs> Apparently they stopped allowing that where I work :( You can only collect a delivery if it has been ordered through the company
[15:59] <mfa298> failing that get the sender to take it up with the courier as a failed delivery
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[16:10] <GW8RAK> With regards a signature, a colleague imported some tear gas and launchers which went missing at Heathrow. All they had was an unreadable signature. Scotland Yard are not happy.
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[16:12] <GW8RAK> Customers paying up. :) What a good day :)
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[16:28] <WILLdude> Oh joy http://imgur.com/e3o6uTp
[16:29] <WILLdude> Proper resistors.
[16:29] <WILLdude> But still messed up.
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[16:32] <WILLdude> Wait.
[16:32] <WILLdude> I think I hear proper rtty.
[16:32] <Babs_> Tune it in WILLdude, we are rooting for you
[16:33] <WILLdude> Rooting?
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[16:34] <WILLdude> Upu, Can you link me to your vac copy?
[16:35] <WILLdude> Actually, I'll just TPB it.]
[16:37] <WILLdude> I never said that^
[16:37] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude, you might have an option called "Stereo Mix" in your recording devices list
[16:37] <chrisstubbs> same things as VAC just free :) but not all audio cards have it
[16:37] <WILLdude> I don't.
[16:37] <chrisstubbs> ah darn
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[16:37] <WILLdude> I use integrated sound on my mobo.
[16:38] <WILLdude> COuldn't be arsed to buy a sound card.
[16:38] <chrisstubbs> Yeah thats what I use but still have it
[16:39] <mfa298> it's sometimes a disabled device so you have to tell your os to show disabled sound devices (right click on the list of sound devices)
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[16:39] <WILLdude> The only problem I have is USB noise through the headphones.
[16:40] <Babs_> rooting. it means we want you to hear rtty.
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[16:42] <WILLdude> WOoho
[16:42] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/121.5mhz-2013-06-26-1640utc-emergecy-beacon-reported-by-pilot.jpg
[16:43] <WILLdude> But 1000hz shift :(
[16:43] <daveake> WILLdude what resistor values?
[16:43] <WILLdude> 4.7k and 47k
[16:44] <daveake> Wrong answer
[16:44] <daveake> There are 3 of them
[16:44] <WILLdude> Heh
[16:44] <daveake> Give me pull-up, pull-down, the other one
[16:45] <Upu> Jaord
[16:45] <WILLdude> 2 4.7k Ones.
[16:45] <Upu> jarod do you have a preamp on that ?
[16:45] <WILLdude> 1x 47k
[16:45] <daveake> That won't give you 1kHz shift
[16:45] <Upu> oh thats not ADS-B
[16:45] <WILLdude> Ah. I'm listening to a reflection.
[16:45] <WILLdude> I think.
[16:46] <WILLdude> Upu: Got it working, nearly!
[16:46] <daveake> Look, make it simple. Disconnect the 47k then see what you get
[16:46] <Upu> good :)
[16:46] <daveake> Then connect the 47k between NTX2 and GND, and see what happens to the frequency
[16:46] <daveake> Then disconnect from 0V and connect to 5V and note that frequency too
[16:47] <daveake> And those last 2 are your low and high frequencies, and they should be approx 480Hz apart
[16:48] <WILLdude> Hmm
[16:49] <WILLdude> The frequency doesn't seem to change.
[16:49] <WILLdude> Is it just a load of reflections?
[16:49] <daveake> All of them should change
[16:50] <daveake> The "real" one will be at or near the labelled frequency on your NTX2
[16:50] <daveake> NTX2s do vary and also your receiver frequency readout may not be accurate, but it'll be within 10k roughly
[16:50] <WILLdude> Nearer to the actual frequency they are actually quite far apart.
[16:51] <daveake> Remember you're looking for ONE frequency because the NTX2 isn't being modulated
[16:51] <mfa298> if you've got any antenna on the ntx2 or on the fcd then it might be worth removing them.
[16:51] <daveake> 'cos you disconnected the 47k resistor
[16:51] <WILLdude> OK.
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[16:52] <daveake> It can get confiusing when the signal is so strong
[16:52] <WILLdude> Looks like the "real frequency is on 434.1126
[16:52] <daveake> Unlikely
[16:53] <daveake> Have you calibrated your receiver's frequency?
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[16:54] <WILLdude> As in the FCD?
[16:54] <WILLdude> My antenna is just a long piece of wire.
[16:55] <WILLdude> My yaesu picks it up on the exact right frequency.
[16:55] <WILLdude> I must find a jack lead.
[16:55] <WILLdude> So I can plug it in.
[16:56] <mfa298> WILLdude: for testing like this remove all antennas - that will make the signal weaker so you should get fewer odd things happening
[16:56] <WILLdude> Picking up only some Letters.
[16:57] <WILLdude>
[16:57] <WILLdude> RTY TEST BEACON RTTY TEST BEACON*CF08
[16:57] <mfa298> If you can it might also help if you can move the reciever away fom the transmitter
[17:00] <WILLdude> Should I write my own code now?
[17:01] <mfa298> if you're happy that you're recieving the basic rtty and understand how its working then move on to the next step.
[17:01] <mfa298> Just remember to do it in small steps and test that it does what you expect it to
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[17:14] <WILLdude> Uhuh
[17:14] <WILLdude> Or should I do the GPS first?
[17:15] <WILLdude> I'll do the GPS, I think.
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[17:17] <mfa298> personally if you're starting to get to grips with the ntx2 side I'd carry on with that and get it completed.
[17:18] <WILLdude> Actualy yeah ok
[17:19] <WILLdude> So where do I start?
[17:19] <Ugi> Yay! I just took my proto-payload for a little drive to pick up the kids. I can see the exact route plotted on google earth! It's incredibly accurate.
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[17:21] <mfa298> WILLdude: you probably want to build it up to send a telemetry string, but intially just have it send hard coded location information.
[17:21] <mfa298> and for any copy/pasted code make sure you understand what it's doing and how it works - it will make debugging problems much easier
[17:22] <mfa298> also add lots of comments.
[17:22] <mfa298> when you're learning there can never be too many comments.
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[17:22] <Ugi> Or too many debug serial print statements!
[17:22] <mfa298> and when you have something that works make a copy of the source code
[17:23] <mfa298> debug messages are good as well.
[17:23] <mfa298> most of my code has lots of debug stuff, usually with a numeric variable to enable/disable different amounts of it.
[17:32] <Ugi> I tend to put the debug message in and then comment them out again as I get bits working.
[17:33] <Ugi> My coding is probably not very high standard however
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[17:38] <WILLdude> Anyawy, I'm off to a ham club meeting.
[17:39] <mfa298> most of the code I've put good debug stuff into has been system applications designed to stay running for a long time, so being able to change how much debug info is sent out without having to restart is useful
[17:39] <mfa298> WILLdude: have fun.
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[17:47] Action: craag is about to go to a ham club meeting near basingstoke..
[17:49] <Zenith> Please may somebody explain the blue circles on spacenear tracker?
[17:49] <craag> Zenith: Blue circle is the radio horizon.
[17:50] <craag> *estimated radio horizon
[17:50] <craag> So when you are inside it, assuming you have no hills/obstructions in the way, the balloon payload should be above the horizon for you.
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[17:51] <craag> The green circle is where the payload would be >5 degrees above the horizon I think.
[17:51] <jonsowman> correct
[17:51] <Zenith> thanks
[17:51] <Zenith> and for our Friday launch we had to adjust our baud rate
[17:52] <Zenith> ive submitted a change on the mailing list for it to be accepted
[17:52] <Zenith> that's OK, right?
[17:52] <Zenith> when people check to put their tracker's online they'll read the post on the day?
[17:52] <griffonbot> Received email: Samuel Bancroft "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Zenith - Friday 28/06/13"
[17:52] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Toombes "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - 29th/30th June"
[17:52] <Zenith> brb
[17:53] <jonsowman> yeah that'll be fine, though if you made a payload doc you might want to make a new one wit the new baud rate
[17:53] <jonsowman> *with
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[18:22] <Zenith> hm... you cant edit posts on the mailing list but rather only post updated ones
[18:22] <Zenith> I hope people see the updated baud rate...
[18:23] <mattbrejza> its easy enough to see on the waterfall, also fldigi autoconfigures anyway providing youve changed the payload doc
[18:23] <jonsowman> Zenith: as I said, it'll be fine. the change will be obvious to any experienced trackers anyway
[18:24] <Zenith> OK ;( thanks
[18:24] <jonsowman> but yes, do update the payload doc
[18:24] <Zenith> will make an updated payload doc asap
[18:25] <jonsowman> if you've made one
[18:26] <mfa298> the other place people tend to look for info is the info box in spacenear.us so as long as the person that updates that get's the right baud rate all should be good
[18:28] <Zenith> ok :D
[18:32] <griffonbot> Received email: mclane "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Zenith - Friday 28/06/13"
[18:38] <LeoBodnar> Who updates this info box in TL corner on tracker website?
[18:39] <Zenith> I believes it's Upu
[18:40] <daveake> Usually is though some others have access too
[18:43] <Zenith> http://spacenear.us/tracker/admin/
[18:43] <Zenith> ooohh
[18:46] Action: mfa298 suspects glastonbury_chase isn't going to move very quickly over the weekend
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[18:48] Action: daveake wonders if there's an f1_chase
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[18:50] Action: mfa298 suspects that wouldn't move very quickly either unless it's doing round in circles
[18:50] <mfa298> s/doing/going/
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[19:00] <Upu> its me normally LeoBodnar
[19:01] <LeoBodnar> OK, thanks
[19:01] <LeoBodnar> Did you manage to decode DominoEX?
[19:01] <Upu> sure did
[19:02] <Upu> note last receiver of B-2 on spacenear.us
[19:02] <LeoBodnar> :)
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[19:10] <mclane> what is DominoEX?
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[19:15] <Upu> its a different format of data
[19:15] <Upu> like RTTY
[19:15] <Upu> but instead of high/low
[19:15] <Upu> it uses a series of tones
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[19:15] <mclane> ok, so more efficient use of available bandwidth?
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[19:19] <Upu> not entirely sure
[19:19] <Upu> it sounds nicer :)
[19:19] <Upu> and you can use FEC on it
[19:19] <Upu> and it decodes even if the signal is super weak
[19:19] <Upu> but its hard to get the radio to make the tones so accurately
[19:20] <mclane> can it be done with the usual NTX2 /RFM22b transmitters?
[19:21] <chrisstubbs> I doubt the RFM can be tuned finely enough
[19:23] <Upu> it can't
[19:23] <Upu> nor can the NTX2
[19:23] <Upu> however the LMT2 with a 16 bit DAC is likely
[19:23] <Upu> its on my list of stuff to test
[19:23] <Upu> you need to make 16 tones spaced by 16.5hz
[19:24] <mclane> ah ok, that sounds to be non-trivial
[19:31] <Upu> the LMT2 is stable enough to do it I think
[19:40] <mclane> I have briefly looked into the data sheet: you have to feed an analog signal as far as I understand?
[19:41] <mclane> like for the NTX2
[19:41] <mclane> to do the multi-tone FSK
[19:41] <mclane> which DominoEX seems to be kind of
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[19:54] <LeoBodnar> DominoEX tone spacing is 15.625 Hz
[20:00] <fsphil> there was a dominoex flight today?
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[20:02] <Upu> no
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[20:02] <Upu> but Leo has a payload that can transmit it
[20:02] <mclane> LeoBodnar: what transmitter do you use for dominoex?
[20:03] <Maxell> Any disadvantages? :o
[20:03] <fsphil> it doesn't do AFC
[20:03] <fsphil> and quite tricky to get right
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[20:04] <LeoBodnar> I use Si4460 bare chip
[20:05] <LeoBodnar> Here is a bit of received DominoEX 8 with HAB data: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/DominoEX8-HAB.mov
[20:06] <Upu> sounds ace :)
[20:08] <Maxell> It sounds doable.
[20:08] <Maxell> $$B-2,905,22:32:48,52.12958,-0.99161,137,7,1.26,-7*d4c6
[20:08] <Maxell> $$B-2,906,22:33:04,52.12951,-0.9915,129,6,1.26,-8*e228
[20:08] <Maxell> $$B-2,907,22:33:20,52.12956,-0.99152,135,8,1.26,-8*ee8a
[20:08] <fsphil> the checksum should be upper case
[20:09] <fsphil> I remember there being an issue with a lowercase one, but I can't remember what it was
[20:09] <jonsowman> %04X
[20:09] <daveake> That sounds lovely. All of a sudden rtty sounds so 2012 :)
[20:09] <Zenith> has anybody used a raspberry pi camera before?
[20:09] <daveake> yes
[20:09] <LeoBodnar> lowercase is 64ms faster for each A and E
[20:10] <LeoBodnar> * correction - 128ms
[20:10] <fsphil> yay varicode
[20:10] <mclane> LeoBodnar: what kind of dominoex is it (I try to decode it with dl-fldigi)
[20:10] <LeoBodnar> DominoEE 8
[20:10] <LeoBodnar> DominoEX 8
[20:11] <fsphil> I like olivia too, but I don't believe it deals with drift as well as dominoex
[20:11] <LeoBodnar> RTTY is 100 years old soon
[20:11] <LeoBodnar> Olivia needs accurate tuning and low drift RX/TX
[20:12] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: It needs something extra - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rxxENL20ksI#t=33s
[20:12] <LeoBodnar> It uses absolute values of tones while DominoEX encodes data in difference between the tones
[20:12] <fsphil> aye
[20:13] <fsphil> the large jump between the last and first tones seemed to be an issue for me and Upu doing it on the ntx2
[20:13] <fsphil> well not last and first, it never jumps just one tone
[20:13] <fsphil> but when it overflowed to the beginning again
[20:14] <LeoBodnar> It slides slowly?
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[20:14] <LeoBodnar> Agree SpeedEvil
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> Evening :)
[20:14] <Upu> Ah
[20:14] <Upu> ibanezmatt13
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> http://sdrv.ms/1aOoMbT here is the interior (nothing secured down yet)
[20:14] <fsphil> the accuracy of the tone spacing was more important for the larger shifts
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Upu
[20:14] <Upu> pm
[20:15] <qyx_> ms domain O_o
[20:15] <fsphil> taking over the world
[20:15] <Maxell> SpeedEvil: lol, I did not expect that
[20:16] <ibanezmatt13> http://sdrv.ms/15FEdgP Really pleased with how its turned out :)
[20:16] <mfa298> The first .ms domain I came accross was http://sod.ms/fast/
[20:17] <mfa298> which appears to do IPv6 as well now
[20:17] <LeoBodnar> daveake: I have heard you are using I2C to talk to UBLOX?
[20:17] <Upu> that looks neat ibanezmatt13
[20:17] <qyx_> seems really huge to me
[20:17] <ibanezmatt13> thanks Upu. I used a proper panel saw instead of a stanley knife; far easier!
[20:18] <ibanezmatt13> qyx_, yes, rather big
[20:18] <ibanezmatt13> Instead of too big I look at it as, big enough :) For a first attempt, it's ok
[20:19] <daveake> LeoBodnar Yep
[20:19] <LeoBodnar> Put a real pie inside in case it gets found
[20:19] <ibanezmatt13> lol
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[20:21] <LeoBodnar> If you don't mind - How do you know when the information is available in receive buffer? Do you read 0xFD and 0xFE registers that are supposed to hold queued data length? Or do you read the data until it dries out? I suppose 0xFF mean no more data
[20:21] <daveake> That last one
[20:22] <LeoBodnar> Cheers
[20:23] <ibanezmatt13> I have a little dilema. http://sdrv.ms/1aOoMbT Where I have marked out some rectangles, that's where I'd planned to cut out several pieces of styrofoam for each component instead of having one flat sheet, basically to save weight. But I was thinking, because the weight isn't that much if I'm cutting it down to only 10mm thick anwyay, to save the hassel I could just use a simple sheet of foam. More weight, b
[20:23] <ibanezmatt13> ut far FAR less hassel. daveake what d'you reckon?
[20:25] <daveake> Whatever works for you
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[20:26] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, not sure. I've got one chance at it. I'll have a think
[20:26] <daveake> Personally I'd have made the box a cube, and mounted things vertically with walls between
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[20:26] <daveake> but just make sure nothing can move
[20:26] <ibanezmatt13> As would I, had I not have stuplidly soldered everything together in such a way that I had to build the box around it ;)
[20:26] <ibanezmatt13> :P
[20:26] <ibanezmatt13> I'm sure cable ties will give a secure fit
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[20:31] <ibanezmatt13> I think when I weighed the box with all components inside it came to the top end of 500g. Added to that will be a small piece of coax cable and another thin piece of foam and glue. That is all
[20:31] <ibanezmatt13> Should be less than 1kg
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[20:47] <jcoxon> evening all
[20:48] <jonsowman> evening
[20:48] <number10> evening
[20:48] <ibanezmatt13> abend
[20:48] <fsphil> nighting
[20:48] <number10> night shift over jcoxon ?
[20:49] <jcoxon> yes thankfully
[20:49] <daveake> evening
[20:50] <jcoxon> no more for another couple of weeks
[20:51] <jcoxon> typical, royal mail claim they have delivered something
[20:51] <jcoxon> or attempted
[20:51] <jcoxon> but there is no red card
[20:51] <jcoxon> so i can't go and collect it
[20:52] <number10> that's not good, but not unusual -stuff for hab?
[20:54] <jcoxon> yeah - its a uv-5r
[20:54] <jcoxon> its to upgrade my automated ISS upload payload
[20:54] <jcoxon> currently running with a uv-3r radio
[20:54] <jcoxon> but its 2W just isn't enough for hte ISS
[20:54] <jcoxon> uv-5r will give me 5W
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[20:59] <jcoxon> fsphil, if it works (haha) we'll need to add a feature to spacenear.us
[20:59] <number10> did you buy ebay from china. prices on amazon are reasonable
[20:59] <jcoxon> ebay but from UK supplier
[21:00] <fsphil> ISS predictions
[21:00] <jcoxon> fsphil, so balloon to ISS to ground stations
[21:01] <fsphil> which should be considered the receiver?
[21:01] <fsphil> I think aprs-is dumps duplicate packets, so annoyingly can't know who all received it
[21:02] <jcoxon> fair point
[21:02] <Randomskk> I think the ISS gets the credit ;)
[21:02] <jcoxon> just to say i haven't yet got this working
[21:02] <jcoxon> so close...
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[21:04] <fsphil> the uv-5r can be tweaked too?
[21:05] <fsphil> brb
[21:05] <jcoxon> sadly not
[21:05] <jcoxon> but it has same interface as uv-3r so will work immediately with my current setup
[21:05] <jcoxon> just won't be able to change frequency
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[21:13] <Maxell> Are these cheap handhelds good as a first handheld? I'm looking into becoming a ham radio operator but as a student i'd wish to expriment with cheaper solutions first.
[21:14] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, the current base of my box is 25mm, and as you know, I need another layer for my components to be cable tied... So, why not, cut the base layer in half which would make it 12.5mm. Then with the other 12.5mm piece, I could use that as another layer. So we get the same overall 25mm thickness from the outside to the components. I could have tiny little stumps of styrofoam too to elevate the layer so tha
[21:14] <ibanezmatt13> t the cable ties don't make it wonky. Bad idea or excellent idea?
[21:17] <ibanezmatt13> Oh damn, the time restraint on my PC is set to 10:30. Is that ^^ a good idea or not?
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[21:22] <ibanezmatt13> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7BN0W7CONpw
[21:22] <ibanezmatt13> skip to 1.09
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[21:22] <ibanezmatt13> damn wrong window, sorry i'm confusing skype and irc
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[21:28] <ibanezmatt13> Gonna have to go now, two minutes remaining. Good night :)
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[21:42] <fsphil> Maxell: yea they're alright. depends if 2m or 70cm has much activity where you are too
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[21:56] <Maxell> fsphil: nice. APRS is hot here, so is the local 70 cm repeater.
[21:56] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[21:56] <fsphil> ah handy enough
[21:57] <mfa298> handhelds are good enough for local communications and you can always stick a better antenna on it.
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[22:00] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - 29th/30th June"
[22:05] <mfa298> I'd have thought launches this weekend were gaurenteed rain, with Wimbledon, F1 and Glasto
[22:05] <daveake> ha :)
[22:06] <daveake> We got married that weekend, [insert_large_number_here] years ago
[22:06] Action: fsphil checks for meteor showers or eclipses
[22:06] <fsphil> nope, safe from that at least
[22:07] <daveake> Saturday's launch has a landing prediction of Portsmouth. Thought it best not to try that one :)
[22:08] <mfa298> always a good plan to stay away from Portsmouth
[22:08] Action: mfa298 has been trained by living in Southampton for too long
[22:10] <Maxell> is it going to be another extreme crowded weekend?
[22:10] <Maxell> any freq-collsions hmm
[22:10] <Maxell> but first: gmt+2 sleepytime
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[22:16] <fsphil> MULTI-K-lined
[22:16] <daveake> It's the new net split
[22:17] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm.
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[22:19] <fsphil> seems quite random
[22:20] <fsphil> oh wait, all web clients
[22:21] <qyx_> someone accidentally the whole web gateway :S
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[22:24] <fsphil> hehe
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[00:00] --- Thu Jun 27 2013