highaltitude.log.20130625

[00:00] <beingaware> but thats cheating, don't you want to use range finding gear? :D
[00:01] <Darkside> l=pff
[00:01] <Darkside> not when you're flying expensive gamerasw
[00:01] <Darkside> cameras*
[00:02] <Darkside> DFing is super fun and all, and is great to have as a backup
[00:02] <Darkside> but when you want a launch to go smoothly, you want decent tracking capability
[00:03] <beingaware> but thats apart of the fun
[00:03] <beingaware> :D
[00:03] <adpirz> forgive my noobieness, but this is standard gps, no? so then i'd need no reason for radio tracking except to be able to receive coordinates from the GPS module
[00:03] <adpirz> ie, i wouldn't need any sort of license
[00:04] <Darkside> uhh
[00:04] <Darkside> you want to track the position of the payload
[00:04] <beingaware> you will need to be licensed
[00:04] <Darkside> nope
[00:04] <beingaware> or someone in your team
[00:04] <Darkside> if you use the radiometrix NTX2 modules, or similar, then you fall into the 434MHz ISM band
[00:04] <Darkside> which doesn't need a licence
[00:04] <beingaware> really?
[00:04] <Darkside> you are power limited though
[00:04] <adpirz> is this UK specific?
[00:04] <Darkside> to 25mW
[00:04] <beingaware> yeah
[00:04] <beingaware> :P
[00:04] <Darkside> no, this is effectively worldwide
[00:04] <adpirz> gotcha
[00:05] <adpirz> oh
[00:05] <Darkside> 25mW is more than enough for 50 baud rtty
[00:05] <Darkside> *more* than enough*
[00:05] <Darkside> the UK guys use 10mW
[00:05] <Darkside> and they get horuzon to horizon coverage
[00:05] <Darkside> horizon*
[00:05] <beingaware> yeah they did with the pi in the sky
[00:05] <Darkside> beingaware: they do with all their launches
[00:05] <Darkside> we do too
[00:05] <Darkside> though we run 25mW and 300 baud usually
[00:05] <KT5TK_QRL> Note that 434 MHz is NOT a ISM band in IARU region 2 (North & South America)
[00:06] <Darkside> oh?!
[00:06] <beingaware> some idiot kid up here used 5 watts :/
[00:06] <beingaware> heard it all the way down past byron
[00:06] <Darkside> KT5TK_QRL: is there an equivalent class license there then?
[00:06] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, we have some ISM around 902 MHz
[00:06] <Darkside> in australia 434mhz isn't actuallt an ISM band, but it's covered under the LIPD (Low interference potential devices) legislation
[00:06] <Darkside> oh
[00:07] <Darkside> bugger that
[00:07] <Darkside> 900mhz on a balloon is a pain
[00:07] <Darkside> means more gain on the ground side
[00:07] <Darkside> adpirz: go get your amateur ticket
[00:07] <KT5TK_QRL> But with an amateur license you can do 434 MHz of course
[00:07] <Darkside> its worth it
[00:07] <Darkside> beingaware: who used 5W?
[00:07] <adpirz> the biggest pain is the woit, it's looking like it'll be a few months
[00:07] <beingaware> some kids up here
[00:08] <Darkside> for what?
[00:08] <adpirz> to sit for the exam
[00:08] <adpirz> its not offered till mid september next, if this website is to be believed
[00:08] <adpirz> at least not in my area
[00:08] <beingaware> they made a whistler and sent it up up on a little trip
[00:08] <Darkside> oh
[00:08] <beingaware> it was great to see them playing with electronics
[00:08] <beingaware> they just forgot the legal side of it
[00:09] <Darkside> mm thats the kind of thing the ACMA takes a dim view of
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[00:11] <beingaware> gah not getting any data out of boms snode this morning
[00:11] <beingaware> even on analogue :/
[00:11] <Darkside> hmm
[00:11] <Darkside> i wonder where the one here is going..
[00:12] <beingaware> oh yay
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[00:12] <beingaware> I got some data
[00:12] <Darkside> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a3f676fcc1d6a8fe1c01269d7357a1972929209d
[00:12] <Darkside> blah
[00:12] <beingaware> in the golf?
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[00:12] <beingaware> oh the national parks haha
[00:13] <Darkside> the one here is on about 403MHz today
[00:13] <Darkside> it changes every day
[00:14] <beingaware> really?
[00:14] <Darkside> yeah
[00:14] <beingaware> they are always at 401.5mhz here
[00:15] <beingaware> sometimes 401.7mhz but I think thats freq drift more then anything else
[00:17] <beingaware> can you make heads or tails out of this
[00:17] <beingaware> http://pi.icanhaz.org/uploads/Screen%20Shot%202013-06-25%20at%2010.15.40%20AM.png
[00:18] <Darkside> analog sonde
[00:18] <Darkside> the data on those sondes is notoriously noisy
[00:18] <Darkside> you need to monitor it for the entire flight to get anything useful
[00:18] <Darkside> also
[00:18] <Darkside> you shoudl be using KL
[00:18] <Darkside> iirc
[00:19] <beingaware> kl?
[00:19] <Darkside> sonde selection
[00:19] <beingaware> arh
[00:19] <Darkside> could be wrong, i can't really remember
[00:20] <beingaware> about to loose the little bugger
[00:20] <beingaware> just running on my internal antenna under a steel roof
[00:20] <Darkside> heh
[00:20] <Darkside> yeah i dont have a good antenna here
[00:22] <beingaware> it seems to dislike KL mode
[00:23] <beingaware> mmm what you using?
[00:23] <Darkside> im not
[00:23] <Darkside> maybe it is 80
[00:23] <Darkside> i really cant remember now
[00:23] <Darkside> havent tracked a sonde in ages
[00:23] <Darkside> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=e1daaefbcee850bc61276911056972160a711e7c
[00:23] <Darkside> hmm
[00:23] <Darkside> (sunday morning)
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[00:25] <fin_> hello
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[00:26] <beingaware> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=c410f7a1c9a65c2c1fbcc6fdfa4c78c229fe0936
[00:26] <beingaware> day time run looks good too
[00:26] <Darkside> that was the daytime run
[00:26] <Darkside> they launch at 45 min before 0/12Z
[00:26] <arko> not going for a floater again :P
[00:26] <arko> ?
[00:26] <Darkside> arko: nah, looking at met launches
[00:27] <arko> nice
[00:27] <beingaware> arh
[00:27] <beingaware> haha shame all the brissy ones go into the drinl
[00:27] <beingaware> drink*
[00:29] <beingaware> could do with a sonde
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[00:31] <beingaware> anyone got a bb gun they can lend me? :P
[00:31] <beingaware> shoot the thing down before it leaves land haha
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[02:09] <heathkid> beingaware: one that'll hit a 20' target at 80-100k ft?
[02:09] <heathkid> heck of a BB gun!
[02:10] <heathkid> bet any military would *love* to have one!
[02:10] <heathkid> :)
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[02:10] <heathkid> not to mention a 10' target at 50k ft.
[02:11] <heathkid> realize how sub-MOA that is???
[02:11] <heathkid> if it were even possible (BB gun or not)
[02:12] <heathkid> you're not shooting anything out of the air at any altitude even close
[02:12] <heathkid> unless you tried a few minutes after launch... and *that* would be pushing it
[02:12] <heathkid> at 5m/sec
[02:13] <heathkid> accent
[02:14] <SpeedEvil> heathkid: various guided weapons can do that
[02:30] <heathkid> we were talking BB guns...
[02:30] <heathkid> and to correct my spelling... ascent
[02:31] <heathkid> though I'd love to see a rail gun take out a HAB at float altitude
[02:32] <heathkid> or even near burst altitude
[02:33] <heathkid> that would be some awesome tech!
[02:34] <heathkid> problem is... unless the payload is hit... it's just sort of an "early burst"
[02:34] <heathkid> and then... harder to track
[02:34] <heathkid> right?
[02:37] <heathkid> that is if someone wanted it to be...
[02:37] <heathkid> I don't
[02:37] <heathkid> I want to track my payload via APRS and RTTY
[02:37] <heathkid> and don't want anyone shooting it down with a BB gun! :)
[03:12] <beingaware> you shoot the balloon just after they send it off :P
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[05:45] Action: x-f offers a cake to everyone.
[05:45] <x-f> good morning.
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[06:23] <Maxell> Free cake?! :o
[06:25] <eroomde> comes with free death
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[06:38] <arko> some restrictions may apply, see stores for details
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[07:39] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning :)
[07:43] <UpuWork> morning Matt
[07:44] <UpuWork> are you coming to the conference / interesting in doing the foundation exam ?
[07:45] <ibanezmatt13> yes I am :)
[07:45] <ibanezmatt13> What's a foundation exam?
[07:48] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork, How many tickets are left?
[07:49] <ibanezmatt13> Nevermind, just looked at your website: 46 student tickets left
[07:49] <ibanezmatt13> I'll get one this week
[07:49] <UpuWork> oh ignore that
[07:49] <UpuWork> I just put 50 of each in stock
[07:49] <UpuWork> Foundation Radio exam
[07:49] <UpuWork> so you can use an amateur radio, transmit and get a callsign
[07:50] <ibanezmatt13> Probably not seen as I haven't been able to track any balloons yet because either me or my setup is terrible. I don't know much about radio to be honest :\
[07:50] <UpuWork> thats the idea you'll learn about the radio by doing it :)
[07:50] <ibanezmatt13> Are there any sample questions I can look at?
[07:50] <UpuWork> yep
[07:50] <ibanezmatt13> what's the exam called, I'll google it
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[07:51] <Darkside> can you data on a foundation licence in the UK?
[07:51] <UpuWork> you can do anything up to the limits of the license
[07:51] <UpuWork> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/yZHbhHf5lOE
[07:51] <UpuWork> http://rsgb.org/main/clubs-and-education/for-students/foundation/foundation-resources/
[07:51] <UpuWork> Test exams : http://www.hamtests.co.uk
[07:51] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks UpuWork I'll have a look
[07:51] <UpuWork> The syllabus is here : http://www.commsfoundation.org/rce/pdf/foundationsyllabus.pdf
[07:52] <UpuWork> and terms
[07:52] <UpuWork> http://licensing.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/spectrum/amateur-radio/guidance-for-licensees/samplelicence07.pdf
[07:52] <UpuWork> basically know your terms and conditions and you're half way to a pass
[07:53] <UpuWork> and they give you a copy of them in the exam anyway
[07:53] <ibanezmatt13> I'll try to learn them then and yes I'll do it, why not eh? :)
[07:54] <UpuWork> there may be some online training for a few hours with Phil M0DNY and me as well
[07:54] <craag> :)
[07:54] <UpuWork> him
[07:54] <UpuWork> :)
[07:54] <ibanezmatt13> sounds good
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[07:59] <ibanezmatt13> "Please Note: You need to have done all the practicals (signed off by a lead instructor) before you can sit the Foundation exam." UpuWork
[07:59] <fsphil> they'll be doing that on the day I believe
[08:00] <ibanezmatt13> Morning fsphil
[08:00] <ibanezmatt13> What sort of practicals? I'm not usually great at things like that :)
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[08:01] <fsphil> there's a bit where you do a simple radio contact
[08:02] <ibanezmatt13> How would that work?
[08:02] <fsphil> I can't remember what the other ones are
[08:02] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, I'll Google :)
[08:03] <craag> Yeah a simple contact with handhelds
[08:03] <craag> Just for operating procedure
[08:03] <fsphil> we got a script to work from
[08:03] <craag> Then you have to connect up a rig, power supply and antenna (to prove you know the right plugs)
[08:03] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... Full gory syllabus details here: http://www.commsfoundation.org/rce/pdf/foundationsyllabus.pdf
[08:03] <craag> Then there's a bit of tuning into various signals
[08:03] <UpuWork> its not hard
[08:04] <ibanezmatt13> ok, cool
[08:04] <craag> And finally tuning a dipole for best impedance
[08:04] <craag> we'll walk you through it
[08:04] <UpuWork> make a brief contact on the radio
[08:04] <fsphil> ah yes, antenna tuning
[08:04] <UpuWork> and show us your payload and that will do for the can you make up a board :)
[08:04] <craag> It's just designed to give you a bit of practical experience under supervision really.
[08:04] <ibanezmatt13> At least I'd know a lot more than I do now at the end
[08:04] <UpuWork> that is the idea
[08:04] <fsphil> I didn't like the radio contact bit
[08:06] <ibanezmatt13> That emergency I witnessed yesterday at the airport by the way turned out to be a fan blade detaching from the front of an engine and flying into it, destroying it. Huge bang it was
[08:06] <ibanezmatt13> http://avherald.com/h?article=46455b06&opt=0
[08:07] <ibanezmatt13> watch the top video
[08:10] <ibanezmatt13> I got a train to catch now, see you later :)
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[08:12] <fsphil> amazingly calm pilot
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[09:24] <Brian_> morning all, could i use a spot messenger instead of NTX2, ublox etc?
[09:25] <fsphil> you could, but spot has its flaws
[09:25] <fsphil> you can't use it to track during the flight, it doesn't work at altitude
[09:26] <Brian_> ahh
[09:26] <fsphil> and they seem to need to be facing upwards to work, so if your payload landed upside down it might not work
[09:26] <fsphil> but, if you're flying expensive cameras then it would be worth it as a backup
[09:27] <Brian_> ok thanks, i was looking into a simpler solution to try as a one off to see if I enjoy HAB before investing in the other bits scanner etc
[09:27] <fsphil> a radio tracker would probably be cheaper than a spot
[09:27] <fsphil> unless you already have one
[09:27] <Brian_> yeah the subscription does sting a bit
[09:28] <fsphil> there's also gsm trackers, but depending on the landing site it might not get a signal
[09:28] <fsphil> they don't work during flight either
[09:30] <UpuWork> I may have an answer to the scourge of SPOT soon
[09:30] <UpuWork> watch this space
[09:30] <UpuWork> but yes as a backup they are ok
[09:33] <mfa298> if you wanted to go down the radio tracker route without some of the intial expense you could always talk to your local radio club. There might be someone with a suitable reciever who might get involved or at least lend you something for your launch.
[09:33] <HixWork> Brian_, these have been used with some success i believe. BUT, only as a backup to RTTY trackers http://goo.gl/bE5g0
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[09:33] <mfa298> there's also the rtl-sdr devices which make cheap recievers
[09:35] <HixWork> Such as this http://goo.gl/v4VFo modified with an SMA connector like this http://i.imgur.com/s05EcqD.jpg
[09:35] <HixWork> Very cheap and pretty effective in my experience. Better in fact than my AR8000
[09:37] <mfa298> I just got one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190855889353?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 and at one point was getting decodes with the small antenna it comes with last flight.
[09:37] <mfa298> (you can also get it cheaper from china but have to wait for it to arrive)
[09:38] <HixWork> mfa298, pretty sure that's the same one http://i.imgur.com/Zw4pqWe.jpg
[09:39] <mfa298> mine had a mcx connector on the side and it's an 820T tuner
[09:39] <mfa298> there didn't appear to be much between it and my early E4000 version one.
[09:40] <HixWork> either way, I think they are perfect for those interesting in getting involved
[09:40] <HixWork> *interested
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[09:41] <mfa298> They certainly seem to do a good enough job. Not quite as good as the better recievers but they do work.
[09:42] <mfa298> this reminds me, I ought to try and fix the antenna that was giving me issues last time.
[09:46] <Brian_> excellent i'll check them out
[09:47] <mfa298> I'd highly recommend a better antenna than the ones they come with, but you can make something very cheaply.
[09:47] <mfa298> this is what I use http://m1ari.co.uk/antenna/diy-dipole
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[09:48] <Brian_> so what exactly would a good alternative to all the radio gear be? would I still need a scanner/receiver? one of these http://goo.gl/bE5g0 as backup
[09:49] <Brian_> how do these work http://goo.gl/v4VFo
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[09:50] <mfa298> For the TV dongles you replace the driver with a different one and it can be used as a radio reciever - so instead of a scanner or other dedicated reciever
[09:50] <Brian_> does the tv dongle work standalone or need integrating into the pi
[09:51] <mfa298> here's a guide for the TV dongles http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[09:51] <mfa298> the TV dongle is used on the ground as your radio reciever.
[09:51] <Brian_> ahh right, and what goes in the payload?
[09:51] <HixWork> NTX2
[09:51] <S_Mark> hello Brian_ www.stratodean.co.uk click on components
[09:51] <mfa298> with a pi/arduino you need a gps (to get position data) and a small radio transmitter like the NTX2 to send the data
[09:52] <mfa298> you can get the gps and NTX2 from Upu's store
[09:52] <mfa298> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=common/home
[09:53] <Brian_> would i still need the ublox
[09:53] <HixWork> yes, most other GPS modules drop out >18Km
[09:53] <mfa298> ublox is the gps module which you'll need on the pi/arduino so it knows where it is
[09:55] <HixWork> You can get NEO-6M's cheaply here http://goo.gl/AqDCm though they are larger than the MAX6/7
[09:56] <Brian_> ok looks like i'll have to stick to the original plan of ublox ntx2
[09:56] <mfa298> that's generally the recommended approach. ublox, NTX2 and something in the middle to stick them together (arduino/Pi or other micro controller)
[09:57] Nick change: staylo_ -> staylo
[09:59] <HixWork> Brian_, give this page a read through, its pretty simple really http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[09:59] <UpuWork> speak to me before ordering the NTX2...
[10:00] <S_Mark> UpuWork, is there shortages or something?
[10:00] <UpuWork> nope
[10:00] <Brian_> Upuwork will do
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[10:13] <HixWork> excessive cutdown anyone? http://goo.gl/izXMm
[10:16] <daveake> just a tad
[10:16] <daveake> 24W ... not surprised it gets warm
[10:17] <Alchamist> Just couple that with some thermite around the cord and ignite it with one of those ... what's the worst that could happen ...?
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[10:22] <HixWork> heh, you could install it in a H2 balloon. HindenbergHAB anyone? ;p
[10:23] <daveake> It's be find *inside*
[10:23] <daveake> It'd be fine *inside*
[10:24] <eroomde> no just roll with the first one
[10:24] <eroomde> daveake: where be i findin the igniter?
[10:24] <daveake> :)
[10:25] <Alchamist> Is it September 19th already?
[10:25] <eroomde> no
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[10:32] <HixWork> anyone know what the UBX hex code is for setting ublox to 9600?
[10:32] <HixWork> baud that is
[10:34] <mattbrejza> open ucenter, change the settings and copy the hex it gives you
[10:34] <mattbrejza> also doesnt it default to 9600?
[10:34] <daveake> ^ quicker than reading the manual :)
[10:35] <HixWork> can't install it at work, keep sfalling over
[10:35] <HixWork> manual is swahili too :)
[10:35] <eroomde> CFG-PRT
[10:35] <mattbrejza> the manual is fine, but you have to do the checksum yourself if you dont have a routine to do it
[10:36] <eroomde> 0xB5 0x62 0x06 0x00 [blah - see page 129 of spec] checksum
[10:36] <HixWork> in that case. I'll abandon until such time as i can run ucenter [sp]
[10:36] <eroomde> NO
[10:36] <eroomde> NOOO
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[10:36] <HixWork> that a -ve eroomde :)
[10:37] <eroomde> yes
[10:38] <eroomde> it's nee that hard
[10:38] <eroomde> ucenter is both cheating and windows
[10:38] <eroomde> double-plus ungood
[10:38] <HixWork> ++ --
[10:38] <eroomde> get some linux, download cutecom
[10:38] <eroomde> it's a really nice serial gui interface
[10:39] <HixWork> got a xubuntu vm here
[10:39] <eroomde> plug a ublox breakout into an ftdi cable
[10:39] <eroomde> cool
[10:39] <eroomde> and first try and manually construct a string to send to the thing to put it into 'only speak when spoken to' mode
[10:39] <eroomde> and then you can experiment with sending configurations and seeing if the string produces the expected response and so on
[10:40] <eroomde> you have to put it into the first mode first though, i found
[10:40] <mattbrejza> the are windows programs to send hex over serial btw
[10:40] <eroomde> otherwise it's just a firehose of stuff being sent back
[10:40] <eroomde> yes there are
[10:40] <eroomde> other retailers are available
[10:41] <eroomde> but i quite like cutecom
[10:41] <eroomde> one) free. 2) nice features
[10:41] <eroomde> you can esily cue up hex files to send it and stuff
[10:42] <HixWork> arse, FTDI is 5v uBlox is 3v3
[10:42] <eroomde> that is a bumshiggle
[10:42] <eroomde> i have 3
[10:42] <eroomde> 5, 3v3, 1v8
[10:42] <eroomde> for that reason
[10:42] <mattbrejza> lol 5V logic
[10:42] <UpuWork> Arduino...
[10:42] <UpuWork> stab stab stab
[10:42] <UpuWork> Move to 3.3V already
[10:43] <eroomde> i also have some with very nice lemo connectors on the end
[10:43] <HixWork> sorry afk. work [baaaasterds]
[10:43] <HixWork> back in a sec
[10:43] <eroomde> and put the corresponding connector on projects that need a panel serial port
[10:43] <eroomde> eg whooshy things
[10:44] <mattbrejza> wouldnt you need a really long serial cable for that one? :P
[10:45] <eroomde> for ground jizzum needless to say
[10:46] <mattbrejza> guessing you very rarely let something off into the air anyway?
[10:47] <HixWork> hello, I'm back
[10:48] <HixWork> UpuWork, my boards are 3v3 AVRs, but my FTDI cable is 5V [i think] would a dmm be able to tell or ar the pulses too short?
[10:48] <HixWork> do not mention saleae eroomde
[10:48] <HixWork> :D
[10:51] <Ugi> HixWork - if you want to plug Ublox direct to serial then a cheap CP2102 based module has a 3v3 output and works fine.
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[10:51] <eroomde> just overnight a 3v3 one from farnell
[10:51] <HixWork> comme ca http://goo.gl/zIujb
[10:52] <Ugi> This type of job:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200931605697
[10:52] <Ugi> Sorry - yes as you had
[10:52] <Ugi> Only issue is finding one in the UK rather than China.
[10:52] <Ugi> Do you need in a hurry?
[10:53] <eroomde> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1329311&MER=baynote-1329311-pr
[10:53] <eroomde> uk
[10:53] <eroomde> will arrive tomorrow if you order now
[10:53] <eroomde> every needs a farnell and RS account
[10:53] <eroomde> it's the single best account you can have
[10:54] <HixWork> just got that, ironically the one with no connector is ~£4 more expensive ???!!!
[10:54] <eroomde> yes
[10:54] <eroomde> odd
[10:54] <eroomde> i hate the ftdi pinout
[10:54] <eroomde> it's retarded
[10:54] <HixWork> change baudrate ;p
[10:55] <eroomde> it has power and ground in random locations
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[10:56] <eroomde> if you want to be good to yourself, terminate it with one of these:
[10:56] <eroomde> http://uk.farnell.com/lemo/fgg-1k-306-clac55z/plug-in-line-6way/dp/8387257
[10:57] <eroomde> and put the corresponding female panel mount bit (cheaper don;t worry) on your payload
[10:57] <eroomde> very nice way of getting to your flight computer without having to take stuff apart
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[10:58] <Ugi> eroomde: you have much more style and much more budget than me!
[10:58] <eroomde> good connectors repay themselves
[10:58] <eroomde> trust me
[10:58] <eroomde> have built hundreds of things
[10:59] <eroomde> tens of hab payloads
[10:59] <eroomde> rockets
[10:59] <eroomde> blimps
[10:59] <eroomde> all sorts of autonomous mechatronic vehicles
[10:59] <eroomde> robot wars robots...
[10:59] <Alchamist> imperial death stars
[10:59] <eroomde> you never skimp on cables and connectors
[10:59] <Ugi> or railings
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> or rafters.
[10:59] <number10> lemo - nice - they used to be used on radio mikes for the BBC - well most TV companies
[10:59] <Ugi> sorry - I was thinking of the death stars
[11:00] <eroomde> yes they're used a lot in pro audiovisial stuff
[11:00] <Alchamist> They never put railings on those dangerous exits
[11:00] <eroomde> these are the K-variety which are ip68 when mated
[11:00] <number10> meant to say mics
[11:00] <eroomde> they're also very compact which is nice
[11:00] <SpeedEvil> 'will withstand hot jets of urine'
[11:00] <eroomde> where size is not so important i use amphenol's gb62 range
[11:00] <Ugi> ip68 is insane - isn't that scuba-diving rated?
[11:01] <eroomde> which are standard circular milspecs
[11:01] <eroomde> they're a bit cheaper
[11:01] <eroomde> also ip68 when mated
[11:01] <eroomde> 'immersion beyond 1m'
[11:02] <eroomde> but i'm talking poo
[11:02] <eroomde> the lemos are only ip66
[11:02] <mattbrejza> HixWork: serial ports idle high so using a DMM on the TX pin will tell you what voltage it is, if its not written on it
[11:02] <eroomde> which is 'powerful water jets'
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[11:02] <Ugi> immersion beyond 1m = scuba diving to me.
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[11:03] <Ugi> ip66 is still pretty good.
[11:03] <eroomde> but srsly, good connectors and cables (using decent assembly techniques) can save an anormous amount of headache
[11:03] <mattbrejza> ref: sharp/blast
[11:03] <eroomde> along with good isolation and grounding practice, i think you can eliminate a great majority of common electrical bugs
[11:04] <HixWork> http://goo.gl/CHkVI THAT THEN ;P
[11:04] <HixWork> sorry CAD lock - - again...
[11:04] <Alchamist> Not BOUNDER lock?
[11:04] <eroomde> the biggest issue with our parachute drop test vehicle was crappy cabling and connections
[11:04] <eroomde> i have learnt my lesson since then
[11:04] <HixWork> Alchamist, heh
[11:05] <Ugi> HixWork: that's insane. ip69000 - interstellar travel rated.
[11:06] <fsphil> not likely to get too wet
[11:06] <eroomde> these are the equivalent 6 pin gb62 circular connector
[11:06] <eroomde> http://uk.farnell.com/amphenol/62gb-56t10-06pn-416/plug-free-size-10-6way-pin/dp/1816264
[11:08] <HixWork> THE PROBlem with Amphenol connectors is the crimp tool needed. hellishly expensive
[11:08] <fsphil> should do a workshop on connectors
[11:09] <eroomde> these are solder cup
[11:09] <eroomde> no crimpage needed
[11:10] <eroomde> fsphil: http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html
[11:10] <eroomde> cable and connector porn
[11:10] <eroomde> or just, how to do it properly
[11:11] <fsphil> "serious in a Darth Vader, rubber-fetish way"
[11:14] <eroomde> :)
[11:14] <eroomde> i do things v similar but a bit differently
[11:14] <eroomde> eg i use solder cups and i buy backshells instead of the pre-shaped heatshrink backshells
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[11:14] <eroomde> but i still use lots of adhesive lined heatshrink and raychem wire
[11:15] <HixWork> loom porn
[11:17] <mfa298> XABEN1 has just appeared
[11:17] <eroomde> LeoBodnar probably knows a bit about this too
[11:17] <fsphil> as if by magic
[11:17] <eroomde> as i think he does motorport electronics
[11:17] <eroomde> the salt water thing is especially scary
[11:18] <Alchamist> Somehow I don't believe the line back to the receiver for XABEN
[11:18] <mfa298> shame ibanezmatt13 isn't around. it's close enough that he should have had no problems recieving it.
[11:18] <HixWork> Yeah, looking at the loom in the front of my car the other week, the salt had wicked its way right up to the connector
[11:18] <HixWork> wouldn't take solder for love or money
[11:19] <HixWork> had to scotch clip it and then epoxy the result [awful bodge]
[11:19] <eroomde> ouch
[11:19] <eroomde> but yes, scary
[11:19] <fsphil> I've seen rain water travelling down coax
[11:20] <eroomde> golly
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[11:20] <HixWork> If the time ever comes for the engine to be rebiult, I think it'll be a new loom job. a proper one too
[11:20] <eroomde> airgap or solid dielectric?
[11:20] <fsphil> the solid kind
[11:20] <eroomde> ouch
[11:20] <fsphil> couldn't remember the name of it there
[11:20] <eroomde> but yes, scary huh
[11:20] <fsphil> the connector inside the attic was compltely corroded
[11:20] <eroomde> just think of those cutdown wires coming out of your payload to the pyro
[11:21] <eroomde> wicking stuff into your pcb enclosure
[11:21] <eroomde> stuff of nightmares
[11:21] <eroomde> conformally coating PCBs is a good thing too
[11:21] <eroomde> just with acrylic spray
[11:21] <LeoBodnar> w]
[11:21] <fsphil> I used some of that on the nestbox pcb, still going well 5 years later despite being outside
[11:22] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: just talking about cables and connectors
[11:22] <eroomde> and Doing It Right
[11:22] <LeoBodnar> Ah, i dribbled.
[11:23] <LeoBodnar> I fell out of love with soldered connectors.
[11:23] <LeoBodnar> If there is any movement in the cable they will snap off much earlier than crimped ones.
[11:23] <LeoBodnar> Solder joint creates a very concentrated stree point.
[11:23] <LeoBodnar> stress
[11:23] <eroomde> yes indeed, they live or die by how well you strain releive and seal up the back
[11:24] <LeoBodnar> So I am back to crimping them.
[11:24] <HixWork> are there reasonably priced crimp tools for circular MIL spec connectors?
[11:24] <LeoBodnar> £2000 in tools and counting
[11:24] <HixWork> see, I said they were outrageous :)
[11:24] <eroomde> for most of my stuff i use service loops and spun backshells with adhesive lined heatshrink, so hold the wire pretty firmy in place
[11:24] <eroomde> cable*
[11:25] <LeoBodnar> There is good stuff coming up on eBay from time to time from military surplus in UK and retiring aircraft mechanics in USA
[11:26] <LeoBodnar> Motorsport stuff is not usually built to last since the cars are rebuilt very often.
[11:27] <eroomde> we have 3 or 4 daniels crimp tools which i was a bit surprised to see the price of
[11:27] <eroomde> when i wanted to get my own set
[11:27] <LeoBodnar> DMC crimpers are industry standard
[11:27] <eroomde> decided i would just use the company set
[11:29] <LeoBodnar> Tools are only justified if you are doing it regularly so does not make much sense for occasional use. It's a shame there are no cheap universal crimping toolsets :(
[11:30] <eroomde> i think we got our ones for a big project
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[11:30] <eroomde> james did all the avionics of the qinetiq 1 balloon
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[11:30] <eroomde> (which never took off in the end as they found a hole in the balloon)
[11:31] <eroomde> but that was a big enough project to justify the investment
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[11:31] <HixWork> I got one of these Pololu ones http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1929
[11:31] <HixWork> cheap but ok for what I needed
[11:32] <LeoBodnar> By the way if anybody is making their own crimped JST connectors, this is the tool to get: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/universal-mini-micro-crimping-tool-molex-kk-zh-jst-xh-sl-amp-crimp-pliers-PA-09-/251268499824?pt=UK_Computing_NetworkingTools_Accessories_SM&hash=item3a80c50970
[11:32] <LeoBodnar> It is very good.
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[11:34] <fsphil> I have a good tool for doing standard crimp headers
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[11:34] <fsphil> does both parts at the time time
[11:34] <fsphil> not JST though
[11:36] <HixWork> gah, whats the cap order down. Micro, nano pico?
[11:36] <HixWork> brain fade
[11:36] <GW8RAK> Is Xaben testing or flying?
[11:37] <fsphil> flying today I think
[11:38] <GW8RAK> On a work day as well :( . It's so close I would have gone over to watch/learn/interfere.
[11:39] <Alchamist> GW8RAK: You and me both!
[11:39] <GW8RAK> Where are you?
[11:39] <GW8RAK> I'm near Holywell.
[11:39] <fsphil> boy that is close
[11:39] <fsphil> I might actually receive this one before 10km
[11:39] <Alchamist> Not quite that close - Just below Stoke
[11:40] <GW8RAK> If I had the car and work wasn't so demanding, I'd go. Nice day though, so a bike ride would be good.
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[11:40] <GW8RAK> I wonder what the projection is?
[11:40] <GW8RAK> Bit of wind and lovely weather here
[11:41] <GW8RAK> Most days I can sneak for a couple of hours, but not today.
[11:41] <GW8RAK> sneak out
[11:42] <S_Mark> While you guys are talking about cables and things, if I am using the AVR-ISP500 programmer, does that put a 5v directly into my icsp header and if so, how will that affect my ublox?
[11:42] <fsphil> it might
[11:42] <fsphil> the one I have can be configured to provide power
[11:42] <fsphil> or just use the VCC line to sense the boards voltage
[11:42] <S_Mark> ah so it can be changed
[11:43] <S_Mark> so it will need to have external voltage applied as normal though the regulator
[11:43] <fsphil> NOAA servers down?
[11:43] <fsphil> check the manual of the programmer, but probably yea
[11:43] <mfa298> fsphil: if you're trying the same as I am it looks like they might be
[11:43] <S_Mark> cool thank you
[11:47] <mfa298> just seeing if I can stick something in my hourly and use the gfs data already downloaded
[11:48] <fsphil> my hourly failed to download gfs data last night
[11:48] <mfa298> not sure what data is on mine at the moment.
[11:49] <mfa298> but the data it's got suggests it heads towards shrewsbury
[11:49] <mattbrejza> fsphil: my hourly seems to have run at 0600 using gfs_00z (which is what it usually uses at that time)
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[11:49] <HixWork> eroomde, UpuWork, you will be pleased to hear that I have a 3v3 FTDI cable on its way from Farnell for tomorrow :)
[11:50] <HixWork> no more stabbing arduino UpuWork ;p
[11:50] <eroomde> nice
[11:50] <mfa298> looks like I'm on midnight data. (last data it downloaded was at 06:48 bst) - I might need to put better times in the cron
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[11:51] <HixWork> speaking of which. If i change the LDO and crystal on my Uno board I can run that at 3v3 can i not?
[11:51] <mfa298> hourly with xaben launch location and guess at values (5/5/30k) http://hab.yapd.net/hourly/
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[11:54] <eroomde> HixWork: yes probably
[11:54] <HixWork> COOL, NO MORE 5V ISSUES WITH PROTOTYPING
[11:54] <HixWork> oh ffs sorry
[11:54] <HixWork> what can't CAD just live with normal case
[11:55] <HixWork> I need a red cree-LED on my monitor for CADlock
[11:55] <fsphil> it's a special case
[11:55] <eroomde> maybe a separate keyboard
[11:55] <eroomde> one with capslock, one with not
[11:55] <eroomde> 2 monitors
[11:55] <eroomde> one keyboard infront of cad monitor
[11:56] <HixWork> don't get me started with 2 monitors
[11:56] <fsphil> caps lock is not per-keyboard
[11:56] <eroomde> is it not?
[11:56] <HixWork> one monitor is a pita
[11:56] <fsphil> not the last time I did it (on windows)
[11:56] <HixWork> full stop
[11:56] <Jess--> if you think 2 monitors is fun, wait until you run 3 monitors
[11:56] <HixWork> I have in the past
[11:56] <Jess--> never go back to 2 or 1
[11:57] <eroomde> standby daveake
[11:57] <HixWork> my laptop is a 12.1" which is a bit painful doing multi-tasking stuff
[11:57] <jarod> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS1YAX70edc - Jet engine explodes on runway, Airbus A330.
[11:57] <daveake> sitting by
[11:57] <mfa298> I think I've had upto 5 monitors across a few machines with synergy. That can get confusing.
[11:57] <Alchamist> 3 monitors, 2 pc's, one keyboard and mouse with no kvm or the like here ... :)
[11:57] <Jess--> 3 x 22" here in front of me (5760 x 1080)
[11:58] <eroomde> cue daveake
[11:58] <HixWork> jarod, WILLdude was there yesterday whenb that happened
[11:58] <HixWork> daveake has a simulator not a computer
[11:58] <daveake> No I'll keep quiet :)
[11:58] <mfa298> don't think it was WILLdude, I think it was matt
[11:58] <fsphil> daveake has more monitors than the NSA
[11:58] <daveake> That was my New Year resolution
[11:58] <HixWork> sorry mfa298 I stand corrected
[11:58] <HixWork> see what tyou did there daveake
[11:59] <daveake> :)
[11:59] <Jess--> if I go any further it will be to 9 screens (3x3 matrix)
[11:59] <HixWork> each with PiP
[11:59] <HixWork> :p
[11:59] <HixWork> 1984! x 1080
[12:00] <Jess--> unusual resolution
[12:00] <fsphil> a bit orwellian
[12:01] <HixWork> NSA spec Jess--
[12:01] <Jess--> I see
[12:01] <Jess--> (and so do they)
[12:01] <HixWork> right time for the feeding trough
[12:01] <HixWork> see if Tesco pass my eating habits to the NSA too
[12:04] <daveake> every little helps
[12:04] <Jess--> I'm going to try and receive both payloads simultaneously through one receiver today, plan is 2 x hdsdr (one active with fcd pro+ and one passive) one copy feeding out audio from 0 to 2khz and the other from 2khz to 4khz, then 2 copies of fl-digi (one on 0-2khz and the 2nd on 2-4khz) should be fun with freq drift
[12:05] <fsphil> we need a simpler way
[12:05] <Jess--> any issues with 2 copies of fl-digi uploading as the same callsign?
[12:06] <fsphil> nope
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[12:06] <mfa298> Jess--: if two copies of HDSDR doesn't work look at sdr-radio (http://v2.sdr-radio.com/)
[12:06] <craag> Jess--: Have you looked at Virtual Audio Cable?
[12:07] <craag> Might make audio-routing a bit easier.
[12:07] <LazyLeopard> jarod: <ibanezmatt13> That emergency I witnessed yesterday at the airport by the way turned out to be a fan blade detaching from the front of an engine and flying into it, destroying it. Huge bang it was: http://avherald.com/h?article=46455b06&opt=0
[12:08] <Jess--> the 2 copies of hd-sdr play nicely together, however because of the audio configuration on my system here (it's complicated... very complicated) VAC doesn't play nicely with the rest of the system
[12:08] <craag> Ah ok.
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[12:09] <Jess--> put it this way.... windows currently sees 16 audio outputs and 32 inputs
[12:09] <qyx_> you can also try with gnuradio - downconvert multiple payloads from sdr and feed it to that virtual audio caable
[12:09] <Jess--> and yes they are truly seperate audio lines
[12:13] <Jess--> is xaben1 up already? I just got this... &44$XABEN1~500,q2:13:08l53.57>7,-3.2q214,4bADM
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[12:14] <UpuWork> how close are yuo ?
[12:14] <Jess--> opposite side of the country
[12:14] <UpuWork> err
[12:14] <fsphil> hmm
[12:14] <Jess--> Lincolnshire M0VBR
[12:14] <fsphil> woowoo?
[12:14] <mfa298> last uploaded data from Steve was almost an hour ago.
[12:14] <Jess--> it's there 680 shift
[12:14] <mfa298> although no uXABEN on the map yet
[12:14] <UpuWork> its up
[12:15] <UpuWork> hang on
[12:15] <UpuWork> 5500 m
[12:15] <UpuWork> not appearing on map
[12:15] <UpuWork> there it is
[12:17] <fsphil> steve must be without net
[12:17] <UpuWork> both payloads are up
[12:17] <daveake> Do they have net in Wales?
[12:17] <UpuWork> uxaben 434.355
[12:17] <fsphil> it sneaks in over the border sometimes
[12:17] <UpuWork> Xaben 434.250
[12:17] <daveake> ah
[12:17] <UpuWork> 660 shift
[12:18] <Jess--> 1st decode on xaben1
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[12:19] <craag> Jess--: Nice range!
[12:20] <Jess--> it's only a co-linear 6 feet off the ground
[12:20] <Jess--> green on both payloads now
[12:21] <UpuWork> wierd
[12:22] <fsphil> boo, I left my payload on at home. it's wiping out the signal
[12:23] <Jess--> so far my dual decode plan seems to be working
[12:23] <WILLdude> Hello.
[12:24] <WILLdude> I didn't ask my teacher today, decided it's best to do so tomorrow.
[12:24] <Steffanx> procrastination
[12:24] <UpuWork> WILLdude I can put her in touch with other teachers who have done it
[12:25] <WILLdude> Hmm.
[12:25] <WILLdude> Should I talk to her first?
[12:25] <UpuWork> thats how conversations work ?
[12:25] <WILLdude> Any from the basingstoke area?
[12:25] <UpuWork> nah
[12:25] <WILLdude> UpuWork: Just checking.
[12:25] <WILLdude> Any from anywhere near hre?
[12:26] <WILLdude> *here
[12:26] <WILLdude> It's not procrastination, I had nothing else to replace the task with.
[12:29] <WILLdude> Also, assuming we do it, can we get insurance from the local authority?
[12:30] <mattbrejza> anyone worked out what xaben1 is doing?
[12:30] <UpuWork> I have a feeling Steve has another one at site and its transmitting ?
[12:30] Action: SpeedEvil tries to get up the energy to procrastinate most days.
[12:30] <UpuWork> with same details ?
[12:31] <Jess--> here's the receive setup (image resized) http://81.168.22.130/screencap.jpg
[12:31] <GW8RAK> Who is XABEN?
[12:31] <UpuWork> Steve
[12:31] <HixWork> rocketboy GW8RAK
[12:31] <GW8RAK> ty
[12:31] <GW8RAK> Can't rx so back to website
[12:32] <UpuWork> prediction data is from 0000Z
[12:32] <mattbrejza> yea maybe, it seems that only steves radio is getting the dodgy ones
[12:33] <UpuWork> I texted him
[12:33] <mfa298> if he's on a poor net connection could slow uploads of old data be confusing something ?
[12:34] <UpuWork> he may have a duplicate payload onsite and be demostrating it
[12:35] <mfa298> I seem to have a whole load of noise at 434.355 which is making uXABEN hard. lovely signal on XABEN1 though.
[12:36] <Jess--> I'm struggling with uxaben but fine on xaben1
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[12:40] <HixWork> WOW f5APQ picked it up before the Horizon.
[12:40] <HixWork> must be that Fylingdales set up on his roof
[12:41] <UpuWork> http://files.qrz.com/q/f5apq/f5apq.jpg
[12:41] <mfa298> unless he's at 0m ASL it's probably over his horizon although only just
[12:41] <HixWork> thats the one UpuWork
[12:41] <HixWork> he gets some impressive reception
[12:42] <UpuWork> I just spoke to Steve he's unsure what was going on but bad 3G
[12:42] <GMT> it's quite flat in that part of France, and as he's close to the coast he has a good take-off to the north-west
[12:44] <mfa298> looking at the times on the points from Steve I'd guess it's just old packets being uploaded slowly
[12:45] <mfa298> he just uploaded 11:33:09 UTC
[12:45] <LeoBodnar> Does habitat allow for non-sequential packets?
[12:46] <mfa298> (the balloon happened to appear as I was zoomed in)
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[12:50] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: yeah i think it handles it
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[12:51] Nick change: Jess-- -> Jess--M0VBR
[12:53] <GMT> not getting bearing/distance/elevation calcs in FLDIGI for balloon XABEN1
[12:53] <fsphil> have you entered our own coordinates?
[12:53] <fsphil> your*
[12:53] <GMT> yes, checked those; all correct
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[12:54] <fsphil> odd, should be fine
[12:54] <fsphil> I can only receive uxaben
[12:54] <UpuWork> both have nice signals
[12:55] <GMT> ah well, never mind, my c/s is appearing on the tracking list
[12:55] <fsphil> I've an ntx2 on 434.075 on my desk at home, got a harmonic where xaben1 should be
[12:55] <g6gzh> GMT: have you selected the correct payload ?
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[12:56] <GMT> I've selected payload XABEN1 from the dropdown, tuned to .250, decodes showing XABEN1
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[12:57] <GMT> ah, okay ... dunno what happened there, but bearing etc now showing!
[12:57] <GMT> I blame the electron fairies inside my PC
[12:58] <g6gzh> I had something similar a few weeks back
[13:09] <PE2G> What's the current dial for uXABEN?
[13:09] <UpuWork> 434.354
[13:09] <PE2G> Thanks.
[13:12] <staylo> Oops, wish I'd known xaben was launching from ruthin. I'm not too far away (Llangollen).
[13:13] <GMT> it launched an hour earlt, which caught me out!
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[13:13] Nick change: UpuWork -> Upu_M0UPU
[13:13] <GMT> earlt=early!
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[13:44] <PE2G> First decodes at dx 655 km: http://s15.postimg.org/hsig3a9ln/Screen935.jpg
[13:44] <Upu_M0UPU> impressive :)
[13:44] <fsphil> sweet
[13:44] Nick change: fsphil -> fsphil_MI0VIM
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[13:49] <fsphil_MI0VIM> those high altitude winds are fast
[13:51] <PE2G> uXABEN is slightly weaker at dx 660 km: http://s23.postimg.org/5awkvhp23/Screen936.jpg
[13:51] <Jess--M0VBR> uXaben does seem to be the weaker transmission all over
[13:52] <PE2G> uXABEN's decoding is good though
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[13:52] <Upu_M0UPU> I suspect XABEN is an LMT2 and µXaben is an RFM22B
[13:54] <Jess--M0VBR> I would be inclined to agree, xaben1 has been rock solid throughout, uxaben has been drifting
[13:55] <mfa298> agreed uXABEN seemed to drift a bit at times, signal seems to have come and gone so I wonder if it's got fewer radials as well
[13:55] <mfa298> or some other compromise on the antenna
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[13:56] <Jess--M0VBR> I'm getting around 20% green on uxaben right now, 100% on xaben1
[13:56] Nick change: Eric -> Guest86493
[13:57] <Guest86493> Fine signal here in the Netherlands at 434.249
[13:57] <gonzo_> local rwm on 434.350
[13:57] <Guest86493> Gueast86493 is Eric...
[13:58] <mfa298> from a few strings I'm generally getting good decodes on both, but I've not been paying enough attention to them
[13:58] <gonzo_> qrm
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[14:03] <Jess--M0VBR> Hmmmm something seems to have been messing with the agc for uXABEN, turned off the agc completely and its 100% green now
[14:03] <PE2G> Burst
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[14:05] <mfa298> So English or Welsh landing ?
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[14:08] <Jess--M0VBR> bit of freq wobble on xaben1
[14:08] <Jess--M0VBR> still decoding ok
[14:09] <eroomde> i just soldered my fingertip
[14:09] <eroomde> this is among my least favourite occupation hazards
[14:10] <HixWork> did you mention flux
[14:10] <Jess--M0VBR> ouch (although I'm sure most of us have done it)
[14:10] <HixWork> or something similar
[14:10] <eroomde> something like that
[14:10] <eroomde> but now james brown is on six music
[14:10] <cn8dn> gps.cpp:6: error: 'TinyGPS' does not name a type
[14:10] <cn8dn> problem arduino uno
[14:10] <mfa298> if you havn't tried soldering yourself you've probably not done enough soldering
[14:10] <eroomde> so i can dance on my swivel chair as i type here with my little finger in a wrap with an icecube
[14:11] <HixWork> burn on up!!
[14:11] <HixWork> like a flux machineeeee
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[14:11] Possible future nick collision: Semafoor
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[14:13] <HixWork> damn. Opened Notepad++ to show boss something.
[14:13] <HixWork> It was full of HAB code in C
[14:13] <HixWork> bugger
[14:14] <Jess--M0VBR> the downside of editors that remember their last state
[14:14] <eroomde> nice
[14:14] <eroomde> it's all one big downside unless you use vim
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[14:15] <HixWork> Catia is Win only these days so not an option
[14:15] <eroomde> vmvm
[14:15] <zyp> I've used vim on windows before
[14:16] <mfa298> gvim is available for windows
[14:16] <HixWork> The VM stands out like a sore thumb, so use n++ for a more covert apporach
[14:16] <HixWork> or so i thought
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[14:17] <LeoBodnar> Hi Hix's boss, welcome to this channel. Sorry about his earlier goof..
[14:18] <Upu_M0UPU> haha
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[14:20] <LeoBodnar> Isn't 12m/s descent a bit too fast?
[14:21] <mfa298> I think it's fine at 10km
[14:22] Maxell (~Maxell@ipv7.xs4all.nl) got lost in the net-split.
[14:22] Hes (GSygmH@tunkki.fi) got lost in the net-split.
[14:22] <mfa298> it will slow down as it drops (or should)
[14:22] Nick change: HixWork -> HixsBoss
[14:22] <HixsBoss> hello LeoBodnar
[14:23] Nick change: HixsBoss -> HixWork
[14:23] <eroomde> also the Cd seems to increase as is drops as lunar taught us
[14:23] <LeoBodnar> Lol, it was harmless scientific experiment.
[14:23] <eroomde> which shouldn;t really happen for a proper chute
[14:23] <eroomde> i am quite unsettled
[14:23] <HixWork> to be fair, they have benefitted from me knowing about GPs
[14:23] <HixWork> so HAB is sort of in their favour 1% of the time
[14:23] <eroomde> was one of them ill?
[14:24] <HixWork> mentally yes probably
[14:24] <HixWork> :D
[14:24] <Upu_M0UPU> LeoBodnar decent speed @ ground level is about 1/2 what it is at 10km
[14:24] <Upu_M0UPU> so 9.4 @ 10k is spot on
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[14:25] <LeoBodnar> OK, is it exponential? I.e. 20km is x4 and 40km x8?
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[14:26] <Upu_M0UPU> not 100% sure but I think its close someone else may be able to comment
[14:27] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: the model we use is the nasa model
[14:27] <eroomde> which splits the atmosphere into 3 layers
[14:27] <eroomde> each locally expoential
[14:27] <HixWork> LeoBodnar, http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/atmosphere/q0046b.shtml
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[14:27] <eroomde> but basically you can't do the whole thing as a exponential because as you go up it gets cooler, then pauses, then increases in temp
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[14:28] <eroomde> this is the model the predictor uses
[14:28] <eroomde> http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/atmosmet.html
[14:29] <LeoBodnar> Thanks for the links eroomde HixWork
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[14:30] <Ugi> My model A that I bought off ebay this time yesterday has just shown up - pretty impressive!
[14:30] <Ugi> All I have to do now is learn to use it!
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[14:31] <mfa298> uXABEN has gone very drift now
[14:31] <LeoBodnar> Not another Pi?! lol
[14:31] <Upu_M0UPU> mfa298 RFM22B
[14:32] <Upu_M0UPU> note the LMT2 hasn't moved since launch :)
[14:32] <HixWork> LeoBodnar, are all your projects PIC based?
[14:32] <mfa298> I was thinking it didn't seem as drift on the way up, but then it's now down to where the first fixes were recieved
[14:32] <LeoBodnar> No, I did some Atmel, 8051 and ARM stuff
[14:33] <LeoBodnar> What's inside LMT2? I need to take it apart. Is it TCXO?
[14:33] <Ugi> LeoBodnar: not yet by a long way but they clearly have potential
[14:34] <mfa298> LMT2 seems to have been a stronger signal throughout as well but that could be a different antenna on there
[14:34] <Upu_M0UPU> TCXO and a PIC actually
[14:34] <Jess--M0VBR> Lost uXABEN @ 5289m and Xaben1 @ 4644m
[14:34] <mfa298> I'm still getting XABEN1 but not had a good decode on uXABEN for a bit
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[14:35] <Andy_G4MYS> Lost Xaben at 17,532 ft 5289 M at 0.3 degrees in Southampton
[14:36] <Upu_M0UPU> Steve is RXing it
[14:37] <Upu_M0UPU> elevation for me is currently 0 :)
[14:37] <eroomde> awesome sauce board repair
[14:37] <LeoBodnar> 3.1V Vdd min on LMT2?
[14:37] <Upu_M0UPU> yes LeoBodnar
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[14:37] <eroomde> i now have to desolver a 144 pin 0.5mm tqfp part
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[14:37] <eroomde> desolder*
[14:38] <Upu_M0UPU> they aren't pico but if you want a rock solid reliable payload thats the radio I would current choose
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[14:38] <mfa298> predicted landing spot looks pretty decent. Not water, few trees, lots of open land
[14:38] <mattbrejza> dont suppose you have some of those things taht vacuum onto the ic with a little spring loaded plunger?
[14:38] <mattbrejza> eroomde: ^ ?
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[14:40] <LeoBodnar> LMT2 on eBay is not what I have expected :-\
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[14:40] <Upu_M0UPU> lost it
[14:40] <fsphil> had a weak signal down to about 8000m here, from uxaben
[14:41] <fsphil> but with the qrm it's difficult to say how good a signal it was
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[14:42] <HixWork> is QRM from the same family as QNH and QFE?
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[14:43] <Upu_M0UPU> making a run for England
[14:43] <Jess--M0VBR> and woods maybe
[14:43] <Jess--M0VBR> hope it clears them
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[14:44] <HixWork> the nick change when using radio is this to identify oneself on the tracker?
[14:44] <Upu_M0UPU> should
[14:44] <mfa298> that wooded area looks akward, looks like it might be an island on sat view
[14:44] <Upu_M0UPU> its putting on the waist coat :)
[14:44] <fsphil> should probably put my nick in dl-fldigi, would make more sense
[14:45] Nick change: Upu_M0UPU -> UpuWork
[14:45] Nick change: Jess--M0VBR -> Jess--
[14:45] <GMT> one either side of the river ... that will be interesting!
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[14:46] <mfa298> GMT I think we've only had updates from XABEN1 for a while. uXABEN should be with it
[14:46] <mfa298> but I'd guess steve only has one radio with him
[14:46] <Ugi> It's found a bit of the border where England is to the West of Wales - that's confusing enough in itself!
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[14:50] <Jess--> it's found a bit of england that has wales to the East, South and west
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[14:51] <mfa298> looks like it could be an interesting bit of land to access
[14:51] <LeoBodnar> Needs visa
[14:51] <GW8RAK> There's a house in that part of the borders, which is approached via a bridge. The house is in England, but the start of the bridge is in Wales.
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[14:53] <mfa298> with a house like that you need to hope the welsh don't want to split away, you might need a passport to leave the house
[14:53] <GMT> the 'border' is odd around there, you'd think they'd make it follow the course of the river
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[14:54] <beingaware> Darkside, are you awake?
[14:54] <g6gzh> I'm in Cambridgeshire but the road is in Norfolk
[14:55] Nick change: eroomde_ -> eroomde
[14:55] Possible future nick collision: eroomde
[14:55] <Jess--> where I used to live the front room was in warwickshire but the kitchen was in northamptonshire
[14:55] <Jess--> both used to try and charge council tax
[14:55] <GW8RAK> Traditionally Shropshire and other counties were part of Wales, but when the border was redrawn after those counties wanted to be in England, the border would have been drawn around landowners perferences.
[14:55] <mfa298> I wondered if the border should follow the river but the overlay might not quite match the image data. Although the border line doesn't quite match the shape of the river in places
[14:56] <GMT> ... was it here that somebody mentioned a bar in Belgium (?) where the seats outside were in Netherlands
[14:57] <Ugi> If your payload lands in a field like that with not much around but more fields who do you contact about access? Just knock on the closest door>?
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[14:57] <g6gzh> Jess--: that's fun, I reckon I could have not paid council tax as they took some persuading of my existence. I wondered if the previous owner had ever paid.
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[14:58] Possible future nick collision: daveake
[14:58] <Jess--> yeap, armed with a screen showing the location, generally they will know who to speak to and how to get in
[14:58] <Jess--> g6gzh: it took the water board 3 years to accept that the house I am in now exists, and that was with me trying to pay them
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[15:00] <g6gzh> similar here, despite initially receiving a final demand when I moved in and then heard nothing for several years
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[15:00] <SpeedEvil> GMT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baarle-Nassau
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[15:50] <WILLdude> How do I explain to my cousin why people don't launch from airfields?
[15:50] <Randomskk> so that you don't hit planes
[15:50] <BrainDamage> you want to avoid air traffic
[15:51] <BrainDamage> why launching from the point it has the most air traffic?
[15:52] <mfa298> that said I think some people have launched from airfields, but I suspect those are very quiet airfields.
[15:53] <lz1dev> an empty field
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[15:56] <WILLdude> I'll have to remember to ask my science teacher tomorrow.
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[16:02] <Jess--> even launching close to airfields can be fun, with a lot more coordination between the local tower and yourself, the launchsite we use as Titan is very close to RAF Coningsby which gives us very little flexibility with regard to launch times, we have to launch between 12:00 and 12:02 local time or abort the launch,
[16:03] <Jess--> last time we were treated to a very low flyby from the BBMF Lancaster 10 minutes after launch (seriously impressive at < 500 feet & full throttle)
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[16:09] <Jess--> interestingly coningsby tower track the balloon using spacenear until it clears their area
[16:09] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:09] <SpeedEvil> They can't get 'skin paints' off it?
[16:09] <SpeedEvil> Though I guess the tracker is the easy way
[16:10] <Jess--> I daresay they would be able to get a radar reflection that close in but the website is probably far simpler (given that the largest metallic object on the balloon or payload is 2 AA batteries
[16:11] <HixWork> Jess--, where was the Warks/Northants place you lived?
[16:11] <Jess--> between Braunston and Dunchurch
[16:12] <HixWork> I'm from Rugby :)
[16:12] <HixWork> Thought it had to be somewher around that way
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[16:13] <Jess--> I'm originally off the boats at braunston but lived in daventry for a fair few years before moving close to Onley
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[16:13] <Ugi> Speaking of radar - do you guys include a radar reflector on your flights?
[16:13] <Jess--> nope, not on the titan flights
[16:14] <SamuelBancroft> Has anyone used BOC for helium before?
[16:14] <Ugi> for some reason I though one was supposed to be included.
[16:14] <HixWork> Used to have a Girlfriend in Willoughby, RAF used to tear down the hill from Barby in Jaguars and Tornadoes in the evenings very low over the back garden
[16:14] <GadgetDroid> Upu, parcel arrived many thanks.
[16:15] <Jess--> the best place for watching military aircraft around there was the top of napton hill, the hercs used to have to fly around it
[16:15] <GadgetDroid> Anyone know what's decent coax to be buying these days?
[16:15] <Jess--> depends what you want it for GadgetDroid
[16:15] <HixWork> Jess--, I used to cyle there - killer. But rewarding especially when the A10's used to do sorties over here
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[16:16] <GadgetDroid> HAB, and ADS-B, n's both ends, about 1m length, RX only
[16:16] <HixWork> Who banned the RAF from low-level sorties over the populus. grumble grumble!!!
[16:16] <Jess--> for long lengths / fixed location / uhf I use westflex for anything else I use whatever I have laying around
[16:17] <Jess--> for a length of under 5m I doubt you would see any difference between types of coax
[16:17] <HixWork> RG58 should be fine GadgetDroid get is virtually anywhere
[16:17] <HixWork> *get it
[16:18] <Jess--> HixWork: we used to get the A10's here flying over the bombing range (raf wainfleet) before that closed
[16:18] <Jess--> these days it's all typhoons circling on full afterburner
[16:18] <GadgetDroid> Tbh, I might chat and but some made up cables
[16:19] <Jess--> or prop trainers that look / sound very much like the old american mustangs
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[16:19] Action: HixWork recreates the bit in the Flintstones where the hooter goes off http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zX53PVe8Rck#t=6s
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[16:20] <HixWork> laters people. Tucanos i think Jess--
[16:20] <Jess--> catch you later HixWork
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[16:20] <WILLdude> Where can I find revision material for the foundation licence?
[16:21] <Jess--> best bet is the book, mock tests at hamtest.co.uk
[16:21] <Jess--> hamtests.co.uk rather
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[16:22] <mfa298> for 1m I'd probably just use RG58 as well, othwise RG213 or Westflex.
[16:22] <GadgetDroid> Jess--: westflex w103 ?
[16:22] <WILLdude> The book?
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[16:22] <mfa298> GadgetDroid: westflex 103 is good stuff but for 1m it's probably more hassel than its worth
[16:22] <Jess--> from memory yes, it's a pain as you can't use standard pl 259's (centre core is too thick)
[16:23] <GadgetDroid> Well, not planning on pl's
[16:24] <WILLdude> Jess--: Which book?
[16:24] <mfa298> same with N plugs for westflex 103, you need special ones and their a pain to solder on.
[16:24] <Jess--> it may be worth noting that what I was receiving the payloads on today was an x50 colinear, with around 30m of rg58 with 4 adaptors and 2 joins in it
[16:25] <Jess--> WILLdude: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Foundation-Licence-Now-Alan-Betts/dp/1872309801/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372177485&sr=8-1&keywords=foundation+license
[16:25] <mfa298> I've done a decent job of getting ads-b (1090MHz) with a home made dipole for 2m with a couple of meters of RG58 on it.
[16:25] <GadgetDroid> Sure.
[16:26] <Jess--> WILLdude: I would have offered to send you my old copy from last year but I have already passed it onto someone else
[16:26] <GadgetDroid> Been about 25 years since I made an rf cable up
[16:27] <WILLdude> Bought it anyway
[16:27] <WILLdude> Thanks for the offer.
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[16:28] <mfa298> If the quality of the Foundation book is anything like the RAE book from when I did the license (older system) then it's worth getting
[16:28] <SamuelBancroft> Is it a OK to use bunsen burner piping instead of a hosepipe for filling a balloon up? http://img.ehowcdn.com/article-new/ehow/images/a07/nm/i0/set-up-bunsen-burner-800x800.jpg
[16:28] <Jess--> the foundation is pretty straightforward, if you have any previous experience with radio / cb you will have no problems at all
[16:29] <Jess--> intermediate is a bit harder but everything is in the book
[16:29] <WILLdude> Does my morning alarm count ? :)
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[16:30] <GadgetDroid> Hmmm. £12 for a 2m rg213 n terminated cable.
[16:30] <WILLdude> The book I have atm is old and doesn't even mention the existence of color tv.
[16:30] <Jess--> full license.. the book (Advance) is well overdue for a re-write
[16:31] <mfa298> GadgetDroid: that sounds pretty expensive (although It's been a while since I bought N plugs for 213)
[16:32] <GadgetDroid> Depend how much you value your time ;-)
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[16:32] <mfa298> I don't think I've made up any cables that short with 213 or N plugs.
[16:34] <mfa298> WILLdude: if it's an amateur radio book it probably won't talk about TV much, amateur TV gets more specialst.
[16:35] <WILLdude> Wow. TalkTalk is amazing. I have 900 bps on a torrent.
[16:36] <nigelvh> Is 900bps actually good, or are you being sarcastic?
[16:36] <WILLdude> Think about it.
[16:37] <WILLdude> 0.9kbps,
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:37] <WILLdude> But I was being semi sarcastic, even though it's quite good.
[16:42] <nigelvh> Yes, I know it's terrible for my standards, but I don't know what kind of internet you have.
[16:42] <nigelvh> I have 50mbit down 10mbit up.
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[16:43] <SamuelBancroft> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2796361990.png
[16:44] <SamuelBancroft> that's really good for me actually, we were below 1Mb/s last year
[16:44] <SamuelBancroft> so significant improvements have been made
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[16:57] <nigelvh> Not my best test, but here's one. http://www.speedtest.net/result/2796388530.png
[16:57] <nigelvh> You should also note that I was VPN'd to home and remote desktoped to my computer, so that will suck some upstream.
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[16:58] <SamuelBancroft> =( Jealous
[16:58] <SamuelBancroft> I guess it's what I should expect, living in Cumbria :D
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[16:58] <Randomskk> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1981753836.png
[17:00] <Randomskk> :P
[17:00] <nigelvh> Randomskk, that isn't exactly an equal comparison of home connections. I could walk over to our datacenter and get a better result than that, but it doesn't prove anything.
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[17:00] <Randomskk> it's my home connection
[17:00] <nigelvh> It's the University connection.
[17:00] <Randomskk> it's also my home connection
[17:01] <nigelvh> I still don't think that really counts.
[17:01] <KT5TK_QRL> You live inside the datacenter?
[17:01] <Randomskk> I'd accept your datacenter score if you lived inside the datacentre :P
[17:01] <nigelvh> No, but I could walk to the datacenter and get a better connection
[17:01] <Randomskk> this is what I get from my desktop in my bedroom, no walking to data centres required
[17:02] <Randomskk> and I suspect it wasn't my internet connection that was the limiting factor either ;)
[17:02] <SamuelBancroft> Well, I would be more than happy to swap my F grade internet with your A+ grade ones any day...
[17:02] <nigelvh> Yes, often the servers cant handle more than about a hundred mbit or so.
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[17:04] <KT5TK_QRL> Always reserve 50% of your bandwidth for GCHQ and NSA ;)
[17:04] <Jess--> it's not much but it's 100% solid http://www.speedtest.net/result/2796406484.png
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[17:05] <nigelvh> Yeah, when I lived in the dorms at UW I got really good speeds too. Though their dorm networks are overloaded.
[17:05] <nigelvh> Had to time your tests right to get the best results.
[17:05] <mfa298> Jess--: I get a very similar result - including the ISP :D
[17:06] <Jess--> the only downside to eclipse is the speed clip on p2p (which you cant disable on a business connection)
[17:07] <mfa298> I've not noticed any real issues - but then the occasional P2P I tend to do overnight on the unmetered time.
[17:07] <Jess--> been with them since the old surftime days (after plusnet threw me off for having the cheek to use a 24/7 connection 24/7)
[17:07] <mfa298> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2796414765.png
[17:08] <mfa298> wow, I got a decent ping time for once.
[17:09] <Jess--> business connections on eclipse have no caps, which is just as well since I shift around 400gb a month
[17:09] <mfa298> I really need to sort out the new (2nd hand router) and see if I get any benefit from 21cn - my current router only does 8mbps max
[17:09] <LeoBodnar> Any two locations within UK can achieve 1Gb/sec transfer rate but ping time is quite slow
[17:09] <mfa298> I'm on business bronze which has a 50G cap daytime (but uncapped overnight)
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[17:10] <mfa298> LeoBodnar: is that a ping time that could be measured in hours rather than fractions of a second ?
[17:10] <LeoBodnar> yep
[17:10] <Jess--> I forget what business plan I'm on, it dates back to when adsl first appeared on the market
[17:11] <WILLdude> Urgh. I'm bored.
[17:11] <WILLdude> I'm awaiting the arrival of my book and the cable.
[17:12] <Jess--> just checked... my plan is simply called business broadband
[17:12] <WILLdude> I guess I'll setup the ntx2 again.
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[17:14] <WILLdude> Urgh
[17:14] <WILLdude> Lost my breadboard.
[17:15] <Jess--> look in the kitchen
[17:15] <Jess--> near the bread bin
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[17:17] <LeoBodnar> For all your breadbording needs: Royal Breadboard Society
[17:18] <Jess--> off out flying (RC Plane)
[17:18] Nick change: Jess-- -> Jess--AFK
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[17:21] <WILLdude> Shit
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[17:22] Nick change: [1]Geoff-G8DHE -> Geoff-G8DHE
[17:22] Possible future nick collision: Geoff-G8DHE
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[17:30] <fsphil> mind the language pls WILLdude :)
[17:31] <daveake> Yeah bad language breaks the interwebz
[17:31] <fsphil> as you can see
[17:31] <fsphil> freenode is very sensitive
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[17:32] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:32] <SamuelBancroft> hi
[17:33] <LeoBodnar> It's about bad thoughts, nod language, isn't it? Language is just an encoding.
[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> SamuelBancroft, one more question, what GM counter will you fly?
[17:34] <SamuelBancroft> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiLKWjr9ALE&feature=c4-overview&list=UUTwyWeG1eE7rSjgClfHcD8Q
[17:34] <SamuelBancroft> mightyohm.com
[17:34] <mattbrejza> itll be interesting to see if they survive the low pressure
[17:35] <mfa298> A different way to think about it, if you use swear words as part of your regular language. What's left to use when things go really wrong?
[17:35] <SamuelBancroft> we tested it at Lancaster Uni and it was successful
[17:35] <SamuelBancroft> fingers crossed
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[17:36] <Lunar_Lander> SamuelBancroft, cool, will fly the same one
[17:36] <SamuelBancroft> testing it with a gamma source was also impressive - seeing it work well for the first time :D
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander> how did you test it, decompression chamber?
[17:36] <SamuelBancroft> yup
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander> and it worked full range?
[17:36] <SamuelBancroft> no apparent differences at all
[17:37] <SamuelBancroft> had the cobal 60 source next to it at all times
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> cool, thank you
[17:37] <SamuelBancroft> well, we tested it with and without cobalt-60
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> I will put mine into the vacuum chamber too in the next few days hopefully
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:38] <SamuelBancroft> it's our first flight so we are certainly being ambitious... the data should be streamed back live so I just really hope it works ;D
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[17:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> really interesting as the same geiger flew with Nick in Belgium and it had the count rate shoot through the roof above 20 km
[17:39] <SamuelBancroft> do you have the data for that? id be interested in taking a look
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> and the thing is that the counters start to work again when the balloon descends
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> and the altitude where they start working is the same where they stopped
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> second
[17:40] <Lunar_Lander> http://mightyohm.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3333&hilit=Altitude
[17:40] <arko> SamuelBancroft: nice video on duna!
[17:40] <arko> sstv signal
[17:40] <SamuelBancroft> arko: haha thankyou - I found the easter egg first ;D
[17:40] <SamuelBancroft> recognised the SSTV signal from Portal 2
[17:40] <arko> really?
[17:40] <arko> hah!
[17:40] <SamuelBancroft> lunar_lander: excellent thanks
[17:40] <arko> did kerbal contact you?
[17:41] <Lunar_Lander> and this is a flight in southern germany http://p56.de/ballonprojekt/20110605/strahlung900.jpg
[17:41] <SamuelBancroft> nope, I think I got a few posts by the dev responsible though
[17:41] <SamuelBancroft> Lunar_Lander: Thank you very much
[17:42] <Lunar_Lander> you are welcome
[17:42] <Lunar_Lander> SamuelBancroft, as I said I got the same counter and my idea was that the low pressure causes the HV part to malfunction, as Nick also says in the forums
[17:43] <Lunar_Lander> but as you said, that did not happen in the chamber
[17:43] <SamuelBancroft> interesting
[17:44] <Lunar_Lander> my argument is that the counters fail at a height but start again when descending below that height again
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[17:51] <SamuelBancroft> fisheye lens doesnt work on uv sensor
[17:51] <SamuelBancroft> should I place the sensor outside, on the lid of my payload box?
[17:51] <SamuelBancroft> or will it die
[17:51] <SamuelBancroft> it's been industrially tested to -55 degrees c
[17:52] <SpeedEvil_> -55C is about as cold as it gets
[17:52] <SamuelBancroft> good, thanks
[17:52] <SpeedEvil_> And in the sun, substantially warmer
[17:52] <SamuelBancroft> the sensor was cheap when we got it, so we'll see how it fares outside the box
[17:53] <SamuelBancroft> hopefully we can see some changes that correlate with estimate ozone conc :D
[17:54] Nick change: SpeedEvil_ -> SpeedEvil
[17:57] <LeoBodnar> Have you tested your flight computer SamuelBancroft ?
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[17:57] <SamuelBancroft> we're using a raspberry pi and yes we have
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[17:57] <SamuelBancroft> well, what exactly do you mean by 'tested'?
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[17:58] <eroomde> hill-to-hill range test
[17:58] <eroomde> battery life test
[17:58] <eroomde> freezer test
[17:58] <LeoBodnar> Flown it on a dummy mission without payload or at least stuck in the freezer overnight?
[17:59] <SamuelBancroft> we've done freezer test, battery life test, leave on for a long time test
[17:59] <SamuelBancroft> why do you ask?
[18:00] <Babs_> chucked it down the stairs
[18:01] <LeoBodnar> Out of interest I suppose.
[18:01] <Babs_> I'm not claiming credit for that one, and have never done, but it does seem popular on here
[18:01] <jcoxon> out a window is quite a good test
[18:03] <WILLdude> Upu: When you gave me the NTX2 were the resistors 22k and 10k?
[18:04] <eroomde> yes out the window is more extreme than the ed test
[18:05] <eroomde> that's the james test
[18:05] <Babs_> I think keef got there before James http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8KnGio4oJ8
[18:06] <Babs_> "Mick, we forgot to encase the payload in polystyrene *slaps forehead*"
[18:06] Nick change: qyx__ -> qyx_
[18:06] <eroomde> rock and roll
[18:08] <WILLdude> Remind me why do I have a 22k resistor for the NTX2 circuit?
[18:08] <WILLdude> It says 47k
[18:08] <jcoxon> Babs_, and the com in ready made packaging
[18:09] <jcoxon> come*
[18:10] <Babs_> jcoxon. huh?
[18:11] <LeoBodnar> Giving orders?
[18:12] <WILLdude> Ah geez
[18:12] <LeoBodnar> Has Upu flown Hell mode sometime ago?
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[18:13] <eroomde> jcoxon has flown hell
[18:13] <LeoBodnar> How did it go?
[18:13] <WILLdude> Wait. Urgh I'm so confused.
[18:13] <eroomde> i think it worked alright. it's obviously completely sillily redunadnat from an info theory pov
[18:13] <eroomde> but it's fun
[18:13] <eroomde> redundant*
[18:14] <LeoBodnar> You mean people were typing data in? :)
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[18:15] <eroomde> i mean it takkes a huge amount of energy per bit of information
[18:15] <eroomde> shannon would weep
[18:15] <eroomde> but it's cool
[18:15] <WILLdude> Why are resistors such a pain.
[18:15] <LeoBodnar> Ticker tape
[18:16] <eroomde> WILLdude: because resistance is futile?
[18:16] <LeoBodnar> Brings memories of 1930s
[18:17] <LeoBodnar> I have settled on DominoEX 8 for the next flight
[18:18] <WILLdude> Upu gave me 22k and 10k resistors, not 47k and 4.7k resistors.
[18:18] <WILLdude> I', so confused.
[18:19] <LeoBodnar> Did you try them in the circuit yet?
[18:19] <mfa298> resistor values will depend on the logic vcc level.
[18:19] <WILLdude> I just don't understand why the tutorial says that.
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[18:20] <mfa298> to some extend as long as the ratios are similar you'll get the same results. you might just find the shift is slghtly different
[18:20] <WILLdude> Will it work with 22k and 10k resistors?
[18:21] <mfa298> you could always stick the values into the forumla on the wiki and work out what the shift will be.
[18:22] <WILLdude> Double bars means?
[18:23] <mfa298> resistors in parallel
[18:23] <mfa298> this version might make more sense http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:ntx2_divider.jpg
[18:25] <WILLdude> I don't understand.
[18:25] <mfa298> what bit dont you understand
[18:29] <mfa298> what quantity of each resistor do you have (are you sure they are 10k and 22k)
[18:29] <number10> LeoBodnar: tracking jcoxons, the hell data was manually entered for the upload - but it was different and a bit fun on the day
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[18:31] <WILLdude> Yes I am.
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[18:33] <WILLdude> Upu labelled them. I don't understand how to do the equation.
[18:33] <mfa298> if it's 2x10K and 1x22K it will work but will be quite a wide shift.
[18:34] <WILLdude> Right.
[18:34] <WILLdude> So on here, http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:linkingntx2-3.jpg?id=guides%3Alinkingarduinotontx2
[18:34] <WILLdude> The positive line on the breadboard goes to 5v right?
[18:34] <mfa298> you should try and work out the shift before you start as that will help you find it on the radio
[18:35] <mfa298> if 5v is your logic high value (which it will be if you have a 5v arduino)
[18:35] <mfa298> on other arduinos / pi it will be 3.3v
[18:36] <WILLdude> It's 5v
[18:36] <mfa298> if you start out with the formula on http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:ntx2_divider.jpg and substitute in your values you should have everything you need to work out the shift
[18:38] <mfa298> this is a slightly blurry worked example for logic high with different values https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14636926/2013-06-11%2012.38.18.jpg
[18:40] <WILLdude> Ok. So R1 is 10k R2 is 22k and R3 is 10k?
[18:40] <WILLdude> ,
[18:42] <mfa298> look at the values given on the ukhas example I linked above, does what you said seem to match that ?
[18:42] <WILLdude> ah no. R1 and R2 are the same.
[18:49] <mfa298> then stick the values into the formula and work out the results
[18:50] <WILLdude> Okay, so 34380v :)
[18:50] <WILLdude> Can I send you the spreadsheet I made?
[18:51] <mfa298> if you want
[18:51] <mfa298> 34380v sounds high, 34Kv, that's approaching what you get in overhead pylons
[18:51] <mfa298> I'm guessing there should be a decimal point
[18:51] <daveake> shirly shum mishtake
[18:52] <WILLdude> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9477294/Book1.xlsx
[18:52] <mfa298> personally for that sort of thing doing it as a quick set of sums I just use paper
[18:53] <WILLdude> Have you downloaded that ok?
[18:54] <mfa298> just looking at it
[18:54] <mfa298> I think you've got a bad bracket in A6
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[18:57] <WILLdude> Well, for x5 it needs to be in brackets.
[18:58] <mfa298> you just need to move one bracket.
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[18:59] <mfa298> currently you're doing ( (R2/R2) + R3|R1 ) *5
[18:59] <mfa298> when you want ( R2 / (R2 + R3|R1) ) * 5
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[19:04] <Jess--AFK> here's why I cant launch from home address http://81.168.22.130/sea.jpg pic taken from about 500 feet above my house, the nice blue line is the wash
[19:04] Nick change: Jess--AFK -> Jess--
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[19:05] <mfa298> you'll just have to do a floater instead and invade europe
[19:06] <WILLdude> Ah right.
[19:06] <WILLdude> Good. 2.962v
[19:06] <mfa298> that's a more sensible value
[19:08] <mfa298> it's always worth having an idea of what sort of value you should get so you can check if the result you've got seems sensible. 34,000V out with only a 5V supply should make you suspect something isn't right
[19:09] <WILLdude> 1851 hz shift.
[19:09] <mfa298> that's what I got.
[19:09] <mfa298> it will work for testing but probably isn't good for a flight.
[19:10] <WILLdude> Dafuq? O.O
[19:10] <WILLdude> http://imgur.com/SAeoySs
[19:11] <mfa298> it would also be worth trying to understand how that to get from the circuit diagram to the formula - it's the sort of thing that's useful for general electronics and for doing the Radio exams (I'm not sure what level you might need to know that sort of thing)
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[19:12] <WILLdude> What's happening?
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[19:13] <WILLdude> TXD is connected to D13 by the 10k resistor.
[19:14] <mfa298> generally you should connect up the circuit first and then apply power.
[19:14] <WILLdude> I have.
[19:14] <mfa298> weird stuff can happen if you only have part of the circuit and power
[19:15] <mfa298> and have you connected it in the same way as the diagram ? (10K between the NTX2 and arduino sounds wrong)
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[19:16] <kieran> hello
[19:16] Nick change: kieran -> Guest31554
[19:16] <Guest31554> has anyone got a good location to launch from near bristol?
[19:16] <WILLdude> http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:linkingntx2-2.jpg?id=guides%3Alinkingarduinotontx2
[19:17] <WILLdude> ^ on there i13 would be connected to D13
[19:17] <WILLdude> Fucking hell
[19:18] <chrisstubbs> yes
[19:18] <chrisstubbs> or whatever pin your are toggling
[19:18] <Guest31554> can anyone help me?
[19:18] <WILLdude> Jesus
[19:19] <WILLdude> It's setup exactly like it is in the picture.
[19:19] <WILLdude> + line to 5v - to ground?
[19:19] <chrisstubbs> Guest31554, a little far from cambridge!
[19:20] <Guest31554> pardon?
[19:20] <chrisstubbs> There are 2 permanent launch sites in cambridge
[19:20] <Guest31554> really :/
[19:20] <jcoxon> WILLdude, lauguage
[19:20] <mfa298> WILLdude: language
[19:20] <WILLdude> Sorry
[19:20] <jcoxon> jcoxon, grammer
[19:21] <Guest31554> so there isnt a place anyone near bristol?
[19:21] <WILLdude> My signals come up on the whole band pretty much?
[19:21] <Guest31554> anywhere
[19:21] <jcoxon> i guess it would be
[19:21] <daveake> jcoxon, spelling (grammar) :)
[19:21] <jcoxon> jcoxon, spelling
[19:21] <jcoxon> oops
[19:21] <daveake> lol
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[19:21] <chrisstubbs> Guest31554, S_Mark and cuddykid are nearby (I think)
[19:22] <chrisstubbs> But dont forget you can apply for a notam!
[19:22] <WILLdude> Does anyone have a clue WTH is happening here.
[19:22] <Guest31554> notam?
[19:22] <cuddykid> I'm worcester area - but not for next 10 weeks :)
[19:22] <chrisstubbs> Notice to airmen
[19:22] <chrisstubbs> Guest31554, see: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:faq
[19:22] <WILLdude> This is so blooming weird
[19:23] <mfa298> WILLdude: you might be better trying to follow the circuit diagram rather than a picture
[19:23] <Jess--> WILLdude: if you are close to the transmitter you will get a lot of images of the transmission, get a little distance between the tx and Rx or remove the antenna from the rx
[19:23] <steve_____> I think its weird that a 12 year old says blooming :)
[19:23] <Guest31554> yeah i was going to complete the application but i wasnt sure where was a good place to launch
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[19:24] <chrisstubbs> Okay well I have launched froma local playing field before, just make sure you are well away from pylons and airports
[19:24] <WILLdude> Jesus
[19:25] <jarod> i can almost touch it: http://x264.nl/dump/747-antenna-clipper.jpg :P
[19:25] <WILLdude> Bloody hell this is hard.
[19:25] <Guest31554> okay
[19:26] <WILLdude> Should I pull everything out and start again?
[19:27] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude, are the peaks on your waterfall making rtty noises?
[19:27] <WILLdude> Nope
[19:27] <chrisstubbs> solid beep from the carrier?
[19:27] <Upu> jarod
[19:27] <WILLdude> Think so.
[19:28] <WILLdude> Hi Upu.
[19:28] <Upu> have you got a preamp on your setup ?
[19:28] <Upu> Hi Will
[19:28] <WILLdude> I'm pulling everything out.
[19:28] <chrisstubbs> Okay, well double check your connection from the ntx2 / resistor / arduino
[19:28] <chrisstubbs> and make sure you have the right pin defined in your software
[19:29] <Guest31554> so is anyone from or live near bristol
[19:29] <steve_____> it could easily be the code I most often got a solid beep when the microcontroller was not functioning as it should
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[19:30] <SamuelBancroft> anybody watching the ariane launch atm?
[19:30] <chrisstubbs> Guest31554, I'm not sure off the top of my head, someone else may know. I would suggest going on spacenear.us next time there is a big flight and see if any receiving stations pop up nearby
[19:31] <Guest31554> oh really thanks man
[19:31] <mfa298> I don't remember there being anyone that close to bristol.
[19:31] <chrisstubbs> Guest31554, are you on the mailing list?
[19:31] <Guest31554> no
[19:31] <mfa298> S_Mark is probably one of the closest in the forest of dean.
[19:31] <chrisstubbs> http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:mailing_list Thats where flights are announced, I think steve is doing one this weekend
[19:32] <daveake> meeeee
[19:32] <mfa298> steve did one today.
[19:32] Nick change: Maxell_ -> Maxell
[19:33] <chrisstubbs> Ah yes sorry dave
[19:33] <chrisstubbs> oo two flights :)
[19:33] <daveake> catching up :)
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[19:33] <mfa298> and there's one on Friday as well
[19:34] <Guest31554> has anyone tried sending a server up as part of the payload?
[19:35] <daveake> what do you mean by "server"?
[19:35] <mfa298> probably the closest to a server that's been done is a raspberry pi. But then a server isn't likely to be much use.
[19:36] <chrisstubbs> http at 50 baud sounds like fun
[19:36] <daveake> 501 server not found it was here a minute agp
[19:36] <daveake> ago
[19:36] <mfa298> and brodcast only
[19:37] <mfa298> 192.168.0.1 -> 255.255.255.255 HTTP/403 Location Moved
[19:38] Action: mfa298 fails with HTTP status codes, should have been 301
[19:40] <Guest31554> yeah we are thinking about sending up a raspberry pi with a game on it and live streaming the flight and the game being played at the same time
[19:40] <WILLdude> I fucking give up now. Rebuilt. Does exactly the same.
[19:40] <SpeedEvil> WILLdude: Have you tried running in circles, and screaming?
[19:40] <mfa298> WILLdude: Language!
[19:40] <WILLdude> Sorry
[19:40] <chrisstubbs> Stop swearing then reupload your code
[19:41] <WILLdude> avrdude: stk500_getsync(): not in sync: resp=0x00 ?
[19:41] <steve_____> are you trying to reset it?
[19:41] <Jess--> disconnect the tx line from your gps if you have it connected
[19:42] <WILLdude> I don't have the gps atm
[19:42] <chrisstubbs> Did you do upload to board or upload using programmer?
[19:42] <WILLdude> OMG. I will feel so stupid if the code never uploaded.
[19:42] <WILLdude> Just uploaded. I'll try the older ide
[19:42] <mfa298> Guest31554: the sort of bandwidth you can get within the power limits permitted for airborne use is pretty low (I think the fastest that's been done in the UK is 600 baud)
[19:42] <steve_____> http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=32708
[19:43] <steve_____> Make sure you have the right board type selected in Tools->Board. Also make sure you have the right serial port selected in Tools->Serial Port.
[19:43] <KT5TK_QRL> Server on a balloon. We did this with Wifi 2.4 GHz: http://2013.texaslinuxfest.org/content/howto-first-wifi-edge-space
[19:43] <Guest31554> mfa298: i am working with nitrous networks
[19:43] <WILLdude> Ah the minecraft hosts
[19:43] <Guest31554> whhat are the power limits
[19:44] <Guest31554> yeah :L the minecrafts host
[19:44] <WILLdude> MINECRAFT IN NEAR SPACE??? :)))
[19:44] <mfa298> the standard used is 10mW on 434 MHz
[19:45] <WILLdude> How can it even go that far?
[19:45] <Guest31554> yeahhh thats what we are trying to achieve
[19:45] <mfa298> if you're looking at wifi I'm not sure that standard wifi is allowed airborne in the UK.
[19:45] <WILLdude> But how can you get wifi from space?
[19:46] <KT5TK_QRL> It does work to a certain degree
[19:47] Harry (5610b88d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.16.184.141) joined #highaltitude.
[19:47] <KT5TK_QRL> We used 1 W amplifiers and Dishes
[19:47] <KT5TK_QRL> on the ground
[19:47] Nick change: Harry -> Guest77747
[19:47] <Guest31554> harry beasant
[19:47] <Guest77747> ye
[19:47] <steve_____> There is very little detail in the deck
[19:47] <KT5TK_QRL> It's necessary to modify some delay parameters in the router software.
[19:47] <Guest31554> this is the nitrous networks guys
[19:47] <steve_____> http://2013.texaslinuxfest.org/sites/default/files/WiFi-Mesh%20From%20Space_0.odp
[19:48] <mfa298> looks like you can have 10mW eirp airborne in the UK limits.
[19:48] <mfa298> that's for 2400-2483MHz
[19:49] <Guest31554> could you guys suggest a battery?
[19:50] <SpeedEvil> Guest31554: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm//190828055303
[19:50] <WILLdude> Right. Right board, right port, same error.
[19:50] <Upu> that one
[19:50] <mfa298> Guest31554: what is it your actually planning on doing ?
[19:51] <WILLdude> *you're
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[19:51] <Guest31554> send up a server into space with a camera live streaming its ascent and live streaming yogscast playing it
[19:52] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude, tried disconnecting and reconnecting power? Restarting windows may help too if it gets funny with serial ports
[19:52] <mfa298> How are you planning on streaming it (hopefully in a legal way ?)
[19:53] <mfa298> and what do you mean by server ?
[19:54] <steve_____> I am imagining a mesh network = a set of balloons floating about up there :)
[19:54] <WILLdude> Hmm
[19:54] <WILLdude> Project Loon comes to mind.
[19:54] <steve_____> Did you read the link I sent WILLdude - there are quite a few suggestions in that thread
[19:56] <Guest31554> nah should be one raspberry pi running the server with minecraft on
[19:57] <mfa298> and how did you plan on streaming it ?
[19:57] <Guest77747> Stream it from the raspberry pi to a server on the ground
[19:57] <Guest77747> then to twitch.tv or something
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> Guest31554: Over a few hundred meters - high bandwidth comms is a _real_ problem.
[19:58] <mfa298> using what technology to stream it, are you planning on using standard 2.4Ghz wifi ?
[19:58] <Guest31554> guest77747: care t answer these questions
[19:59] <mfa298> For 2.4GHz wifi I've almost made it work over 4km with good antennas and line of sight with 100mW (ground power limit). Looking at the regs you can't use that much power airborne, you can only have 10mW
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> Isn't it 100mW EIRP limit?
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> (at least in the U, I forget where you are)
[19:59] <craag> As KT5TK said, they managed wifi, but were using 1W (100x the amount of power we're allowed in the UK) and big antennas.
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> UK
[20:00] <Guest77747> What speeds can i get with 2.4Ghz wifi or can we use satellites
[20:00] <Guest77747> of some sort
[20:00] <Guest77747> Or a GPS signal, i dunno
[20:00] <craag> Wifi would work, but only for the first few kms, and with a lot of effort!
[20:00] <mfa298> looking at IR2030 the bit for wifi networks says nothing about airborne (so assume not) but 2.4Ghz is listed in short range but 10mW limit (no channel bandwidth limit)
[20:01] <chrisstubbs> satelite internet could work
[20:01] <chrisstubbs> Its horribly slow though
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> From memory, microwave cookers are grandfathered in - and there is an allocation around 915MHz
[20:01] <mfa298> I think satelite internet is horibly slow and very expensive
[20:01] <craag> lots of latency, awful for a minecraft server!
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> Sure - you need to send up a chicen too - but that lets you do a few kilowatts.
[20:01] <Guest77747> Is it possible to relay connections to satellites? I read its about 600ms?
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> Guest31554: High bandwidth satellite signals are _really_ expensive, as well as heavy and high power.
[20:02] <craag> maybe 600ms each way.
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> And usually requiring a stable platform.
[20:02] <craag> so 1.2 seconds+
[20:02] <craag> And it will be expensive.
[20:03] <Guest77747> So whats the cheapest method of streaming at 1mbps uplink at the edge of space lol
[20:03] <craag> If you have the budget, satellite internet would work.
[20:03] <craag> It wouldn't be great, but it would work.
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[20:04] <steve_____> I like the idea of a mesh
[20:04] <craag> Other than that, I'm not sure there's a way to do it in the UK.
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[20:04] <steve_____> put enough balloons up there and get them to hook up :)
[20:05] <craag> steve_____: That would be fun, but ridiculously expensive, and require a lot of man power.
[20:05] <steve_____> join em up with a really long string
[20:05] <mfa298> probably the only other way to try it is buy some spectrum from ofcom.
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[20:05] <WILLdude> steve_____: I did not see that link, link me again please.
[20:05] <mfa298> or a really long cat5 cable
[20:05] <steve_____> http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=32708
[20:06] <WILLdude> http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=32708
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[20:07] <WILLdude> You could just buy a really really long ethernet cable, Guest77747
[20:07] <WILLdude> :)
[20:07] <WILLdude> Are nitrous networks sponsoring you?
[20:08] <Guest31554> guest77747 is nitrous netowkrs
[20:08] <mfa298> probably actually need to run it on singlemode fibre, ethernet cable is only good for around 100m (and I think the issue is timing rather than power). With the right optics you can get 40km on single mode fibre.
[20:09] <steve_____> There is the answer then...
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[20:09] <Guest77747> A long length of fibre lol?
[20:09] Action: mfa298 wonders what the CAA would make of a tethered HAB to 40km
[20:10] <steve_____> it may need an extra couple of balloons to lift it
[20:10] <Guest31554> what is the worst that can hapen?
[20:10] <WILLdude> Code uploaded properly, same error. mfa298
[20:10] <Guest31554> happen?
[20:10] <steve_____> might as well build the space elevator while we are there
[20:11] <mfa298> you might even get 10G like that (I can't remember the lengths off hand, it's been a while since I had to look it up)
[20:11] <steve_____> for ants and hampsters
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[20:12] <Guest77747> 4km of fibre optics
[20:12] <steve_____> 40km...
[20:12] <Guest77747> Can't decide if im being trolled
[20:12] <Guest77747> right
[20:12] <Guest77747> defo a troll
[20:12] <SpeedEvil> mfa298: It's not actually that bad.
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[20:12] <SpeedEvil> mfa298: I did some numbers for an aerostat to 5km.
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> Using a mylar tape, encapsulating two aluminium wires.
[20:13] <Guest77747> What is going on
[20:14] <Guest77747> The fibre would need insulating, which would make 40km extremely heavy
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> mfa298: Seemed plausible.
[20:14] <Guest77747> There is no way on earth that it would work
[20:14] <Guest77747> Imagine 40km of fibre flying around the atmosphere
[20:14] <mfa298> 10G-ER is 40km https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-gigabit_Ethernet#10GBASE-ER
[20:14] <WILLdude> Actually. Thing about it.
[20:14] <WILLdude> *think
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> For 40km, you're pretty much going to need intermediate thrusters.
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> Which complicates things.
[20:15] <WILLdude> The average weight of an ethernet cable is 40g per m
[20:15] <WILLdude> Walk into screwfix and ask for 40km of ethernet cable.
[20:15] <Guest77747> yeah but ethernet is nothing like fibre
[20:15] <Guest77747> ..
[20:15] <mfa298> WILLdude: ethernet cable isn't much good over 100m (and I think the issue is timing), fibre is much better and should be lighter
[20:15] <Guest77747> Ima just email nasa and get them to boot up a MC server in the international space station
[20:16] <chrisstubbs> Iridium operates at only 2.2 to 3.8 kbit/s, ouch
[20:16] Nick change: Guest31554 -> nitrousnetworkss
[20:16] <nitrousnetworkss> hi harry
[20:16] <Guest77747> hi
[20:16] <steve_____> stick 10 balloons 4km apart on a string and use a mesh network
[20:16] <Guest77747> that would be a mess
[20:16] <Guest77747> and fibre isnt that cheap!
[20:17] <Guest77747> For 40km!
[20:17] <steve_____> roll them out like a fishing line
[20:17] <WILLdude> Doing this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbwKJvJABpo&feature=youtu.be
[20:17] <WILLdude> Annoying.
[20:17] <WILLdude> Code uploaded.
[20:17] <WILLdude> Pulsing txd.
[20:17] <mfa298> I susoect you'de have to go somewhere well alway from airplane routes to get permission for a tether that long.
[20:18] <Guest77747> Okay, well we can't do that
[20:18] <Guest77747> thats out of our league
[20:18] <steve_____> Otherwise pay the $5-7 per megabyte and use a satellite modem
[20:18] <mfa298> still 40km of fibre is probably cheaper than iridium.
[20:18] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude, are you 100% sure you havent connected your arduino digital pin to the power input of the ntx2?
[20:19] <mfa298> the tether idea wasn't particularly serious. But technically could be possible (permission and weight would be the issues)
[20:19] <craag> mfa298: Cheaper for the fibre maybe... but not for the required helium!
[20:19] <steve_____> 350500 kbit/s
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[20:19] <steve_____> you may get minecraft on that but it would be slow
[20:19] <craag> Satellite internet is the real answer, despite the cost. You'll have to work on keeping the payload weight down as well.
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> hi steve_____
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[20:20] <steve_____> hi Lunar_Lander
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> steve_____, did read your recent question about the decoupling caps
[20:20] <steve_____> ah cool
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> I'm not really worried, we put in 7 V and get out 3.3 V
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> craag: natural gas is 50p/m^3. £1/2m^3 for the equivalent lift to heliuum
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> at about 150 mA
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> For the cost of £90 of helium, you get 180m^3 of natural gas.
[20:21] <steve_____> I put them on but I don't think I need them unless something weird happens in flight
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> Which will have a lift of around 90kg
[20:21] <steve_____> 0.1uf on the max 6 and the avr
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> steve_____, something else was my arduino Uno supplied by a 12 V wall wart
[20:22] <steve_____> I have been transmitting for a full week non-stop without a problem
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> that gave a quite warm regulator
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:22] <steve_____> ha
[20:22] <WILLdude> chrisstubbs: Yes
[20:23] <WILLdude> WTF is happening here?
[20:23] <SamuelBancroft> It's a shame you can't return unused helium for a reduced price. And they complain about helium supplies running out... ;L
[20:23] <nitrousnetworkss> that because it leaves our atmosphere
[20:23] <SamuelBancroft> yup
[20:24] <SamuelBancroft> so we should care for what we have :P
[20:24] <SamuelBancroft> and return what we don't need
[20:24] <steve_____> I am going to use AA batteries and one of these (DC Buck Step-Down Voltage Adjustable Converter Power Module Regulator LM2596) ebay
[20:24] <nitrousnetworkss> we should collect it from near space
[20:24] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude, take a photo of your setup, clear enough to see the resistor values if you can
[20:24] <SamuelBancroft> I'm getting 3.6 cu m but will only use 2.23 cu m
[20:24] <chrisstubbs> You seem to have endless trouble with this NTX2 :P
[20:25] <SamuelBancroft> lots of donald duck experiments coming up... but it's a shame that it's lost
[20:26] <steve_____> I have my whole circuit planned for 3v3 so I will only need one but thats subject to testing
[20:27] <steve_____> Upu is correct though the max 6 data sheet does indeed suggest using a decoupling capacitor
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[20:27] <steve_____> although my testing suggested it was not needed...
[20:29] <WILLdude> I don't have a camera.
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> isn't helium likened to Mickey Mouse?
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:31] <mfa298> decoupling capacitors are always worth adding. your circuit might be fine with out them most of the time but the time it stops working will be the time you need it to work.
[20:31] <mfa298> and for the cost of a few pence it's worth doing
[20:31] <steve_____> that was my thoughts as well
[20:31] <steve_____> so I added them
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[20:33] <steve_____> I have a couple of questions of my own though
[20:33] <WILLdude> Ah jesus
[20:33] <WILLdude> Now it's not txing at all.
[20:33] <steve_____> 1) for measuring battery voltage do people use a simple resistor based voltage divider
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[20:34] <daveake> 1) yes
[20:34] <steve_____> and 2) Has anyone used the LM19 temperature sensor
[20:34] <daveake> 2) not me
[20:34] <WILLdude> Fucking hell
[20:34] <mfa298> arrg, the pain, VMWare dropdown for Solaris is now Oracle Solaris 10 (I realise most people won't understand what that's painful)
[20:34] <jcoxon> WILLdude, last warning
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[20:34] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[20:34] <Upu> seconded WILLdude ask you again and again to stop swearing
[20:34] <Upu> asked
[20:34] <WILLdude> Sorry
[20:35] <WILLdude> I'm just very angry.
[20:35] <Upu> just stop and go back to where it was working
[20:35] <WILLdude> It never was.
[20:35] <daveake> Which you need to fix not vent here
[20:35] <Upu> well go back to basics then
[20:35] <cuddykid> eat it
[20:35] <Upu> make a circuit that goes hi and lo tones
[20:35] <cuddykid> heard it helps with stress relief
[20:36] <steve_____> stick a led on the output pin instead of the radio transmitter
[20:36] <WILLdude> jcoxon: Just ban me please.
[20:37] <WILLdude> I swear too much and I should be punished.
[20:38] <craag> WILLdude: Walk away from it for a bit, come back in a few minutes and start from basics.
[20:38] <craag> Being angry at it never helps.
[20:38] <jcoxon> WILLdude, i'm going to ignore that comment
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[20:39] <jcoxon> however i will ban you if you continue being an idiot
[20:39] <WILLdude> Ok, led flashing.
[20:39] <steve_____> that rules out half the circuit then
[20:40] <steve_____> which is helpful
[20:40] <steve_____> as Upu says do high pause low pause now and hook it up to the radio
[20:41] <WILLdude> That's the code I was running?
[20:41] <WILLdude> The blink code.
[20:41] <WILLdude> Ffss I've had enough for not.
[20:41] <steve_____> well its good that the avr is working and you have hooked up the led to the right pin
[20:42] <WILLdude> *now
[20:42] <WILLdude> I've lost hope.
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> WILLdude, please don't
[20:42] <Upu> petes sake
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> can I tell you something?
[20:42] <Upu> Will
[20:42] <WILLdude> I'm gonna do this tomorrow.
[20:42] <WILLdude> Go on.
[20:42] <Upu> thats a good idea take a break
[20:42] <Upu> Will question
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> yeah that is what I wanted to say
[20:42] <Upu> are you trying to make the 3 resistor circuit ?
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> when I tried the GPS Navmode command first, it failed a whole afternoon
[20:43] <WILLdude> Upu: Indeed.
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> around 9 pm it finally worked!
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> I was extremely happy :)
[20:43] <WILLdude> But I'm not continuing today.
[20:43] <Upu> ok do you know what value the resistors are you have ?
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[20:43] <Upu> do you have a multimeter?
[20:43] <WILLdude> 22k and 10k, the ones you gave me a while back.
[20:43] <WILLdude> no
[20:44] <Upu> are you sure thats the value ?
[20:44] <Upu> pick one up and write down the colour bands
[20:44] <Upu> then go work out what value it is
[20:44] <Upu> clue : google resistor colour bands
[20:45] <WILLdude> I did
[20:45] <WILLdude> Plus the fact you wrote 10k and 22k
[20:46] <Upu> well just because I wrote it doesn't mean its correct
[20:46] <Upu> and those may actually be the wrong values
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> do you have four or five band resistors?
[20:47] <Upu> they should have been 47k and 4.7k
[20:47] <WILLdude> I check the color codes, and that's correct.
[20:47] <WILLdude> *checked
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[20:48] <WILLdude> 22k and 10k. I must have misplaced the 47k and 4.7k ones.
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[20:48] <Upu> the example on the wiki was wrong
[20:48] <Upu> and revised with 47k and 4.7k resistors
[20:49] <WILLdude> So did you give me any 47k and 4.7k ones?
[20:49] <WILLdude> I'm damn confused now.
[20:49] <mfa298> WILLdude: have you checked the colours on them today, if not it's always worth doing, think of it as practice for a useful electronics skill
[20:50] <WILLdude> Yes!
[20:50] <steve_____> I am using 3.2k and 14.6k so i don't think the resistance matters for testing as long as R1 and R2 are the same - but agree you should be able to work out what the resister values are
[20:51] <iain_G4SGX> Hi y'all. Just a quicky. If the ublox GPS doesn't get a fix for whatever reason, what is sent in telemetry? Is there no telemety, does it send nulls ,zero's or the last known fix?
[20:51] <WILLdude> I'll leave it there for today. Being called an idiot is enough to make me want to kill myself, so I shan't continue speaking in this channel for at least a day.
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[20:52] <daveake> sigh
[20:52] <mfa298> he's turning back into WONTdude, or CANTdude
[20:53] <steve_____> iain_G4SGX: it depends on what you have configured but I believe it sends empty comma separated values
[20:53] <daveake> PITAdude
[20:53] <chrisstubbs> iain_G4SGX, do you mean the serial NMEA output of the GPS, or the radio output of the tracker?
[20:53] <Babs_> the way he was swearing he was only one vowel away from turning CANTdude into something far worse
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> LOL!
[20:53] <iain_G4SGX> the tracket transmit telemetry, HAD protocol
[20:54] <Babs_> Lunar_Lander, are you going to the conference?
[20:54] <Upu> I don't want to remove him from the channel but he he carries on
[20:54] <iain_G4SGX> *UKHAB
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> Babs_, yea considering it, looking how to get to london etc.
[20:55] <chrisstubbs> iain_G4SGX, it depends on the software on your arduino/pi/whatever
[20:55] <chrisstubbs> Its a good idea to transmit last know coordinates, with a flag saying if its a valid fix or not
[20:55] <iain_G4SGX> I want to know because I am writing the software..OK empty fields it is.. Ta
[20:55] <iain_G4SGX> Ah ok
[20:55] <steve_____> i was referring to the max6
[20:55] <chrisstubbs> At least that way if the gps detatches on landing you should still know where it is
[20:56] <Babs_> I'll be very disappointed if you don't turn up dressed as a metal capsule with a ladder and a couple of astronauts climbing down from you to plant a flag of your home nation in the lecture theatre.
[20:56] <Babs_> I wish I had had the foresight to choose a cool nick before coming on here.
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[20:57] <iain_G4SGX> Ok gotcha.. I thought last pos wouyld be more usefull for sure.. lol
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:57] <steve_____> I don't like nicknames - I prefer real names :)
[20:57] <daveake> :)
[20:58] <chrisstubbs> I think mine is too long to have my callsign too :(
[20:58] <K9JKM> That way I won't forget who I am ...
[20:58] Nick change: chrisstubbs -> chrisstubbs_M6ED
[20:58] <chrisstubbs_M6ED> darn
[20:58] Nick change: chrisstubbs_M6ED -> chrisstubbs
[21:00] <iain_G4SGX> All these callsigns make me feel old.. ! But then I got my licenece when I was 14 and went inactive for30 years til recently.. (45 now so quite old..) Seen a lot of changes. The internet for example.
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[21:01] <iain_G4SGX> And summut called 'data mode' lol
[21:02] <daveake> that'll never catch on
[21:02] <steve_____> regarding your previous question iain_G4SGX - I believe habitat is configurable and so you should check that out before designing your code
[21:03] <mfa298> I think I used packet radio before the internet. Although I didn't get on with packet.
[21:03] <mfa298> Although I'm not quite old enough to have been a G (if only I did the RAE a year earlier)
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[21:09] <iain_G4SGX> Looking at previous code for the Ublox, not many seem to wait for an ACK, (I'm gonna use UBX not NMEA, seems much easier to deocode), has this caused any problems in the past ? Is hell of lot easier so therefore bound to be troublesome i thought.
[21:11] <steve_____> I used PUBX there is a TinyGPS library that has been written that takes care of the parsing
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[21:11] <iain_G4SGX> Not using C
[21:12] <steve_____> there was some pretty simple python code floating about as well
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> thing is when I was a boy Internet became big
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> and people were discussing Baud
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> and PPPoE and stuff
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> and then came DSL and these words disappeared from the normal user
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> and now with uCs I am actually using Bauds
[21:14] <steve_____> its good isn't Lunar_Lander
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:14] <steve_____> Have you seen the nand2tetris course
[21:14] <steve_____> the elements of computer systems
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> no, sorry
[21:15] <steve_____> its the same sort of thing but for general purpose computers
[21:16] <fsphil> I hated PPP, especially on linux. though wvdial made things much simpler
[21:16] <fsphil> do miss the sounds of dialup though :)
[21:17] S_Mark (~S_Mark@212-139-255-107.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:17] <S_Mark> Hello
[21:18] <steve_____> I think rtty sounds a lot like dialu
[21:18] <steve_____> especially at 600 baud with random length strings and pauses
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[21:19] <iain_G4SGX> At school in 1981 I has a 56K modem, big fluffy box you put your telephone handset in. Used it to hack into the local college networl. Security wasnt a big deal then..lol
[21:19] <S_Mark> hello Lunar_Lander
[21:20] <steve_____> security by obscurity
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:20] <S_Mark> Evening chrisstubbs
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> we had a silent modem in 2001 fortunately
[21:20] <chrisstubbs> Hi S_Mark, ready for hackvanaing?
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> but did you actually have that sound all the time when you were online?
[21:21] <iain_G4SGX> No, the fluffy box had a lid.
[21:21] <S_Mark> I think so!
[21:21] <fsphil> it muted after the intial conversation
[21:21] <steve_____> Right off to bed soon early morning tomorrow
[21:21] <steve_____> bb4now
[21:21] <fsphil> nite steve_____
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[21:21] <LeoBodnar> 56K in 1981???!!
[21:21] <iain_G4SGX> yep. maybe 1982 at apush
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> our fax at uni (modern hp one) does the sounds
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> very quietly
[21:22] <LeoBodnar> No way!
[21:22] <fsphil> not sure 56k was around even in 1992
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> can I show you something from 1999?
[21:22] <iain_G4SGX> Mabe i got my numbers wrong, it was acoustically coupled, maybe 289K
[21:22] <iain_G4SGX> 28K
[21:23] <LeoBodnar> 1200 or 300
[21:23] <iain_G4SGX> It was a direct dialup connection, no internet, memory fuzzy
[21:23] <iain_G4SGX> bulletin board
[21:23] <fsphil> possibly 300
[21:23] <LeoBodnar> I bough myself a big shiny expensive Hayes 1200 in 1985
[21:23] <fsphil> I missed the BB era
[21:24] <LeoBodnar> BBS all the way!
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> OK 1998-2009 there was a TV station called GIGA in Germany
[21:24] <fsphil> by the time I got a modem it was for the internet
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> all about computers and stuff
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> and look at this end of the show from 1999 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EYgHaKB4xk
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[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> at 6 seconds they show that monitor up close
[21:24] <mfa298> 56K would have been early to mid 90s. Freeserve with 0845 dialup started end of 1998
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> and I think even back then they livestreamed the programme!
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[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> can you see it?
[21:25] <fsphil> I remember giga Lunar_Lander :)
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> cool! :)
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[21:25] Nick change: aTRain_ -> [a]Train
[21:25] <Willdude123> Hi, I'd like to apologize.
[21:25] <iain_G4SGX> Yeh your right, must be confused with later. probably 300.
[21:25] <LeoBodnar> I remember the rise and fall of FIDO network
[21:26] <fsphil> I used to channel hop through the german channels on astra, no idea what was being said
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[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:26] <Willdude123> I apologise to all other people present in this channel, for my excessive, and extreme use of bad language.
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> so you saw it post 2006?
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> as they were on EUTELSAT on NBC Europe before that
[21:27] <fsphil> the NBC europe channel was on astra too, it shared with a kids tv channel
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> I was always told it only ran on Hotbird
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> well anyways
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> I assume that tiny window in the video is the livestream as it switches with a delay
[21:28] <fsphil> was a while ago, I'm probably wrong
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> do you know what I mean?
[21:28] <iain_G4SGX> Found a picture if one identical.. http://www.g4sgx.org/images/modem.jpg
[21:28] <iain_G4SGX> but without the fluff
[21:28] <LeoBodnar> I have used IBM370 mainframe and submitted programs for overnight processing on punchcards.
[21:28] <fsphil> probably used realvideo
[21:28] <Willdude123> I would also like to apologize to jcoxon, for being an idiot. I am also sorry for discussing the fact that him calling me an idiot, (and quite rightly so) led me to wish to kill myself. I understand that is not something to discuss, and that I should get on and do it.
[21:28] <fsphil> urg
[21:29] <Willdude123> And to many other people for being rude.
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, and I like the thing later when the blonde waves to the camera
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> the black screen with the orange text "You can switch the computer off now."
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> classic Win 98 times
[21:30] <Babs_> Willdude123 - when you get 5 mins away from the arduino, read Bounce by Matthew Syed. Forget about all of the 10,000 hours stuff which is not my point. There is some interesting research in there that says that people who most succeed in life are the ones who don't just choose stuff that is easy and that they can succeed at without trying
[21:30] <LeoBodnar> And collected printouts next day on folded paper. Printout of either half the page or two inches thick both meant embarrassing failure - since everyone could see your printout thickness in your pigeon hole.
[21:31] <Willdude123> 10,000 hours?
[21:31] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander: we used to change that image at school
[21:31] <Babs_> those who are most successful are the ones who try something out of the box, fail, try things again, fail and then succeed.
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:31] <Willdude123> Upu, I thank you for your patience, despite my lack thereof.
[21:31] <fsphil> it was a bitmap, it it was often changed to something a bit sillier
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> we never had it
[21:31] <Babs_> and until then, revel in the fact that Lunar_Lander has a game named after him. http://phet.colorado.edu/en/simulation/lunar-lander
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> our PC switched off after Shutdown
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[21:32] <fsphil> ooooh you with your fancy ATX power supplies
[21:32] <fsphil> us AT owners had a big clunky power switch
[21:32] <Willdude123> I will pick up some 4.7 and 47k resistors asap.
[21:32] <LeoBodnar> Big red switch on the side of IBM PC
[21:32] <fsphil> and a turbo button!
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[21:32] <fsphil> which didn't do what you thought it might
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[21:32] <Babs_> turbo button!
[21:32] <fsphil> (turbo was normal speed)
[21:32] <mfa298> Willdude123: remember you learn as much from making mistakes. If something is giving you problems take a break from it and go back later.
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[21:33] aTRain_ (~atrain@ip174-70-61-40.om.om.cox.net) joined #highaltitude.
[21:33] <LeoBodnar> No turbo, just 4.77MHz all the way
[21:33] Nick change: aTRain_ -> [a]Train
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> why did some PCs have a two digit display on them=
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[21:33] <LeoBodnar> 640KB RAM and 4.77MHz CPU.
[21:33] <nigelvh> To display error codes
[21:33] <iain_G4SGX> South America romping in on 15M this evening, if anyone interested.
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[21:34] <fsphil> mine was just to display speed
[21:34] <fsphil> the digits would change when the turbo button was pressed
[21:34] <fsphil> the actual numbers where configured using jumpers on the back
[21:35] <Willdude123> I need to get some 4.7 and 47k resistors, looks like I have none anymore.
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:35] <LeoBodnar> 5-1/2" floppies.
[21:35] <LeoBodnar> Epson matrix printers
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> the Iomega drives
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> ZIP and JAZ
[21:36] <LeoBodnar> DR-DOS
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> interesting ideas but too late
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[21:36] <LeoBodnar> Click of death
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> what was the biggest size again?
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> something similar to RAR
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> was like JAZ but more memory
[21:37] <LeoBodnar> 100MB? or something like that 120MB?
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> that other drive offered 0.5, 1 and 2 GB
[21:37] <LeoBodnar> QIC tape backups
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> REV
[21:37] <Willdude123> So in short, I'm sorry guys.
[21:37] <Willdude123> I should keep suicidal thoughts to myself.
[21:38] <mfa298> Original zip was 100MB (I think I still have my drive and some disks)
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, ah ok JAZ was 0.5, 1 and 2 GB
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> mfa298, yea
[21:38] <LeoBodnar> 1GB is JAZ I think
[21:38] <mfa298> I think there was also a 250MB version later
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea and wiki says 750 MB was there too
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> and REV was 35, 70, 120 GB
[21:39] <mfa298> 1G sounds familier for Jaz I don't think I knew anyone that used them though. We had one machine at Uni with a Jaz drive - most had zip drives
[21:39] <mfa298> at least in the computing dept
[21:39] <nigelvh> Zip drives were the shit man.
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:39] <LeoBodnar> Massively expensive MO disk from Squest (xp?)
[21:39] <iain_G4SGX> Resistor colour codes are definitely not a issue for Euthanasia. Capacitors maybe ! lol
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> I have a Clik
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> that 80 MB disc
[21:40] <LeoBodnar> sp?
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> for PCMCIA
[21:40] <nigelvh> Syquest
[21:40] <Willdude123> Iain, it was more the whole being called an idiot thing.
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> but my windows vista laptop couldn't run it
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:40] <Babs_> They need to bring back those perspex domes that you could put over dot matrix printers to keep them quiet
[21:40] <Willdude123> Where can I buy resistors?
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> do you know what is funny?
[21:40] <Babs_> but make them bigger so i can silence my colleagues
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> matrix printers are expensive today
[21:40] <LeoBodnar> Lol and cartridges that never dry out
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> because doctors use them
[21:40] <Willdude123> http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/erj3geyj472v/resistor-4-7k-100mw-5/dp/2059619 how come this doesn't look like a resistor?
[21:41] <nigelvh> Laser Printers FTW
[21:41] <Babs_> Lunar_Lander - my first computer was an Apple II in 1981
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> actually xD
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> you won't believe it
[21:41] <iain_G4SGX> Willdude: I go maplins cos I cant wait for the post
[21:41] <Babs_> its a surface mount one willdude - for teeny tiny projects
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> my dentist told me that someone broke into the dentist office
[21:41] <mfa298> Willdude123: that looks like a surfaec mount resistor.
[21:41] <Babs_> the Apple II is in the design museum now
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> just to steal the matrix printer
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:41] <LeoBodnar> You could have had £5000 LaserJet (plus postscript cartridges)
[21:42] <mfa298> Willdude123: best place if you only want resistors is maplin - either just get the values you want or get a kit of various sizes
[21:42] <iain_G4SGX> I bilt a ZX-80 I think it was call, first sinclair home PC. 1K ram.
[21:42] <iain_G4SGX> Worth quite a bit of money now if you got one
[21:42] <Upu> Willdude123 looks like a resistor to me :)
[21:42] <Upu> big one mind
[21:42] <Babs_> the Apple II is worth more now than when my dad bought it
[21:43] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, the maplin resistor selection packs are very handy
[21:43] <chrisstubbs> same for the capacitor ones
[21:43] <iain_G4SGX> Also had a commodore pet, i was a spoilt kid
[21:44] <LeoBodnar> Do we sound like old gits from outsider POV?
[21:44] <fsphil> prolly
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> one CompactFlash card in 2000
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> 128 MB
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> 700 DM
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:44] <LeoBodnar> I still use Norton Commander 3.0 to look for files (quickly)
[21:44] <fsphil> HUGE
[21:45] <iain_G4SGX> Spent 3 weeks writing an auto fire procedure for defender in machine code.. Happy days, that was about 1979.
[21:45] <Willdude123> Maplin doesn't sell 4.7k ones.
[21:45] <fsphil> they sell kits with many kinds, might be handier
[21:46] <LeoBodnar> Wot? No 4.7k resistor in Maplin?
[21:46] <LeoBodnar> But they do novelty USB office rocket launchers instead
[21:46] <iain_G4SGX> Damned surface mount probably not
[21:46] <iain_G4SGX> Who do you guys get PCB's made by, say 10 at a time max
[21:47] <iain_G4SGX> pcb pool?
[21:47] <LeoBodnar> Yes.
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[21:47] <Willdude123> Indeed.
[21:47] <Upu> they look good quality
[21:48] <Upu> shame they are relatively expensive compared to the chinese
[21:48] <LeoBodnar> They still screwed up one batch for me.
[21:48] <Upu> in fairness Mitch has yet to screw up anything
[21:48] <mfa298> Willdude123: I'd be pretty surprised if maplin didn't sell 4.7k - it might be listed as 4k7
[21:48] <Upu> apart from slightly dodgy silk screen on one which hasn't been an issue since
[21:48] <Upu> and 10 50mmx50mm PCB's for £14
[21:48] <LeoBodnar> Vias did not have enough Cu plating and all the PCBs died slow death over 2-3 months. Very embarrassing.
[21:49] <iain_G4SGX> I have an old GSM/GPRS module here I need to sell if anyone interested. Very cheap or even given away for a good cause. Bit old not but works a treat. will did out a link.
[21:49] <Willdude123> Ah they do.
[21:49] <LeoBodnar> Who is Mitch?
[21:50] <mfa298> Willdude123: you'll want them from this page http://www.maplin.co.uk/metal-film-0.6w-resistor-2162
[21:50] <Upu> he runs Hackvana.com
[21:50] <Upu> use him for my PCB's very cheap
[21:51] <Upu> quite slow round time ~14-18 days
[21:51] <Upu> but if you're not in a hurry
[21:51] <gonzo_> cpc and rapid do resistor packs. Worth looking at if you can get enough of an order together to not get hit for the delivery cost
[21:51] <iain_G4SGX> Its the Fargo Maestro 20, bit big for my uses.. http://www.induowireless.com/manualer/gsm/maestro_100_20_100_lite.pdf
[21:51] <mfa298> Willdude123: alternativly get something like http://www.maplin.co.uk/610-piece-e12-1-4w-resistor-starter-pack-2163
[21:51] <Upu> he's on IRC usually so you can chat to him too which is nice, he's an Australian based in China
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[21:55] <LeoBodnar> Thanks Upu.
[21:55] <Upu> no probs he's mainly for the hobbyist but if you want an introduction let me know and/or just join #hackvana
[21:57] <eroomde> i agree- he's good if time isn't money
[21:57] <eroomde> and a very good bloke
[21:57] <eroomde> but i've found it difficult to plan around him
[21:57] <Upu> yep
[21:57] <eroomde> so am inclined to him more for hobby
[21:57] <eroomde> or for non-prototype work
[21:58] <LeoBodnar> I am overgrown hobbyist. I have used to have PCBs done in China by a small guy. This Chinese guy was always on email - I asked him how and he said he goes to bed at 1am and starts working at 5am. Very humbling...
[21:58] <eroomde> i.e. a batch of something i've already prototyped and am happy to produce in larger quantities
[21:58] <Upu> in fairness he's got much better the round time has been 10 days recently but yes I'd love some where in the UK that was quick
[21:58] <Upu> Oh yeah Mitch doesn't sleep much
[21:58] <eroomde> well most are quicker than that
[21:58] <eroomde> it's the price that is different
[21:58] <Upu> yep
[21:59] <eroomde> like we do 5 day turnaround for our stuff as standard
[21:59] <eroomde> 1 day if we're in a hurry
[21:59] <eroomde> but you pay for it
[21:59] <eroomde> but free stainless stencil
[21:59] <Upu> this is usually why I'm working on 3 or 4 things at once
[22:04] <LeoBodnar> I would like to ask trackers: I am going for DominoEX mode next flight. Would you prefer slower DominoEX 8 mode with a better S/N ratio or faster DominoEX 16?
[22:05] <Upu> have you put FEC on it ?
[22:05] <eroomde> 16 is still quite conservative
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[22:05] <LeoBodnar> DominoEX8 is roughly the speed of 50baud RTTY
[22:05] <Upu> yeah 16 is slower than 50 baud isn't it ?
[22:05] <eroomde> depends on fec iirc
[22:05] <LeoBodnar> 16 is about == 100baud RTTY
[22:05] <eroomde> 5 years since i programmed it. basically just remember the pretty noise it makes :)
[22:06] <LeoBodnar> No FEC this time as FEC is 50% slower
[22:06] <Upu> very interested in seeing if the FEC makes a difference but no one has launched it in the UK
[22:06] <eroomde> 16 with FEC >> 8 without FEC poss
[22:06] <Upu> so I would err towards slower
[22:06] <eroomde> i think we launched it actually
[22:06] <Upu> can you record some and put the wav file up somewhere
[22:06] <LeoBodnar> OK, DominoEX 8 then.
[22:06] <Upu> it does sound ace
[22:07] <eroomde> but i don't think we shouted about it
[22:07] <eroomde> but there wasn't really anyone to shout to then
[22:07] <eroomde> so...
[22:07] <LeoBodnar> not mine but DominoEX8: http://www.w1hkj.com/FldigiHelp-3.21/Modes/DomEX8.wav
[22:07] <eroomde> but it is just by inspection on paper a much better mode tha rtty
[22:07] <LeoBodnar> It's shockingly good. Decodes when you barely hear it.
[22:08] <Upu> yeah I want to see if dl-fldigi decoders it which it probably will
[22:08] <Upu> this is what I'm interested in
[22:08] <Upu> just never been able to get a radio to generate the tones
[22:08] <LeoBodnar> Have been testing it with dl-fldigi and it works 100%
[22:08] <Upu> think a LMT with a DAC will rock it
[22:08] <Upu> only my list...
[22:09] <Upu> on my list even
[22:09] <mfa298> having some FEC in it might be good, one of the annoying things with the standard HAB rtty is when you get one bad char at 50bd.
[22:09] <eroomde> it does decode it fine
[22:09] <eroomde> but you just need to ensure the inter-tone spacing stays good
[22:10] <eroomde> as you say, lmt2 will help
[22:10] <LeoBodnar> 15.625Hz bang on.
[22:10] <LeoBodnar> dl-fldigi has some intertone adjustment but I did not investigate
[22:10] <LeoBodnar> Ideally you we want Domino with larger intertone distance.
[22:11] <LeoBodnar> There is no spectrum width problem on UHF.
[22:11] <Upu> that sample doesn't decode for me
[22:11] <eroomde> would be nice to stay in the 3khz standard ham passband
[22:12] <LeoBodnar> This sample prints onto the ticker tape at the bottom of dl-fldigi
[22:13] <LeoBodnar> DominoEX 16 b/w is 270Hz only.
[22:13] <Upu> ah ok
[22:13] <Upu> I see
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[22:14] <LeoBodnar> DominoEX has two alphabets that print onto the main screen and onto the ticker tape for ID
[22:14] <KT5TK_QRL> Why doesn't it show up in the text area?
[22:14] <iain_G4SGX> Whats that new-ish mode caused all the fuss recently cos america FCC reckoned it could be classed a spread spectrum?
[22:15] <LeoBodnar> Secondary alphabet is used to fill up unused TX time instead of diddle-diddle on RTTY
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[22:15] <LeoBodnar> ROC ROC or smth like that?
[22:15] <LeoBodnar> RAC?
[22:15] <iain_G4SGX> yeh, thats it.. tnx
[22:16] <LeoBodnar> If you stretch it then any MFSK is spread spectrum.
[22:16] <KT5TK_QRL> So how do you transmit actual positions and telemetry with DominoEX?
[22:16] <eroomde> ROS
[22:16] <iain_G4SGX> indeed, more than 3kcs i reckon..
[22:17] <Upu> same as RTTY KT5TK
[22:17] <LeoBodnar> Same way as RTTY - it just a TX mode. Can use CW I suppose just as well
[22:17] <eroomde> i'm not sure about your spread spectrum definitions
[22:17] <KT5TK_QRL> Do you have an example audio for that?
[22:17] <eroomde> you can define it quite precisely in terms of rundundancy and whether each freq represents a data symbol
[22:17] <Upu> anyway night all
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[22:18] <iain_G4SGX> Sure, thats MY definition.. :) Big greedy in bandwidth but some new spread spectrum modes seem very error resistant.
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[22:18] <eroomde> but it's not really spread spectrum if the data rate directly maps onto the bandwidth
[22:18] <LeoBodnar> In incremental MFSK same symbol can be transmitted on multiple frequencies since it is a "sliding scale" So I'd class it as a narrow bandwidth spread spectrum
[22:20] <LeoBodnar> What was that thing about massively wide spectrum TX. Like ultralow power spread over DC..UHF. I think it is license-free still.
[22:20] <eroomde> i think hell is a candidate for spread spectrum
[22:20] <eroomde> by my definition of bandwidth/data-rate
[22:21] <LeoBodnar> Agree eroomde. DominoEX uses pretty much MSK
[22:21] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: spark plugs?
[22:21] <iain_G4SGX> PLT adaptors?.
[22:21] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, spark transmitters. Went the whole circle.
[22:22] <LeoBodnar> Can't remember where I read about this ultra wide transmission thing. Maybe Ofcom allocation documents
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[22:23] <LeoBodnar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-wideband
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[22:26] <LeoBodnar> Licensed technology though... Interesting read anyway. RF bats?
[22:30] <eroomde> i did some work with ultra wideband rf location
[22:30] <eroomde> on a project at university
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[22:30] <eroomde> it was a bit interesting
[22:30] <eroomde> simple concepts, but quite a lot og engineering
[22:30] <eroomde> i kind of prefer the other way round :)
[22:32] <iain_G4SGX> I suppose phase differences at differing frequencies can be correlated. clever..
[22:34] <iain_G4SGX> I gotta go, work (if you can call it that) in the morning. cyas.
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[22:36] <eroomde> me too
[22:36] <eroomde> nn
[22:36] <LeoBodnar> nn!
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> Night all.
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> Upu: still around?
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[22:42] <LeoBodnar> Just recorded DominoEX8 from the tracker via mic. http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/DominoEX8-HAB.mov
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[23:17] <griffonbot> Received email: Ben Bancroft "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Zenith - Friday 28/06/13"
[23:17] <griffonbot> Received email: A. Coghlan "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Horizon 2 - 30/06/13"
[23:17] <griffonbot> Received email: A. Coghlan "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - 29th/30th June"
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[23:23] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[23:36] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - 29th/30th June"
[00:00] --- Wed Jun 26 2013