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[00:43] <beingaware> hey does anyone know what sondes bom use in AU
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[01:17] <Darkside> beingaware: yes
[01:18] <Darkside> Vaisala RS92SGPW's
[01:18] <Darkside> they mostly fly analog versions, but some stations, particularly automated ones, use digital sondes
[01:20] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/?p=42
[01:28] <beingaware> trying to chase / hunt the sondes out here
[01:38] <Darkside> ahh yep
[01:38] <Darkside> if they are analog sondes then chasing them means DFing
[01:39] <Darkside> if digital, then sondemonitor will decode them
[01:39] <Darkside> have a scan around betwen 400.3 and 403MHz around 0/12Z
[01:40] <Darkside> analog sondes you an hear on WFM, and it sounds like a descending, repeating sequence of tones
[01:40] <Darkside> digital sondes you can hear on NFM
[01:40] <Darkside> and i cant remember what they sound like, been so long since they've launched one here :P
[01:43] <Darkside> beingaware: where in aus are you?
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[01:48] <beingaware> Brisbane at present
[01:48] <beingaware> yeah bom brisbane uses 401.5MHz
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[01:48] <Darkside> ok brisbane is a crap place to track sondes from :P
[01:49] <Darkside> they all end up in the sea
[01:49] <beingaware> haha
[01:49] <beingaware> sometimes
[01:50] <beingaware> sometime they end up in in caboolture
[01:50] <Darkside> run predictions
[01:50] <Darkside> ascent/descent both 5m/s
[01:50] <Darkside> burst around 28km
[01:50] <beingaware> sounds like you live in brisbane dark
[01:50] <Darkside> i live in adelaide
[01:50] <beingaware> got a linky to a calc
[01:51] <Darkside> http://habhub.org/predict/
[01:51] <beingaware> oh the chase in adelaide, used to chase them back in 2008
[01:51] <beingaware> usually found them out past elizabeth
[01:51] <Darkside> heh
[01:51] <beingaware> or the port
[01:51] <Darkside> hrm
[01:51] <Darkside> you were in adelaide back then?
[01:51] <beingaware> yep
[01:51] <beingaware> I lived there until mid 2010
[01:51] <Darkside> ooh
[01:51] <Darkside> you an amateur?
[01:53] <beingaware> I am now
[01:53] <beingaware> tech going standard
[01:53] <beingaware> foundation*
[01:53] <beingaware> soz, so used to talking to the mericans
[01:54] <Darkside> lol
[01:54] <Darkside> no probs
[01:54] <Darkside> i got my f call a few years back, then upgraded to advanced last year
[01:54] <Darkside> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=3d886c504b85363addfc4d82dccdc2659ab4e122
[01:54] <Darkside> *sploosh*
[01:54] <beingaware> haha
[01:54] <beingaware> it went into the drink :(
[01:55] <Darkside> are they analog or digital sondes in brisbane?
[01:55] <beingaware> to be honest, I am not 100% sure
[01:56] <beingaware> it used to be analog
[01:56] <beingaware> but they have moved from 4 to 2 flights day now due to "more advanced" systems
[01:56] <beingaware> so maybe digital?
[01:56] <Darkside> haha
[01:56] <Darkside> nope
[01:56] <Darkside> analog
[01:57] <Darkside> the more advanced systems are vertical wind profile radars
[01:57] <Darkside> they'll be launching analog sondes still, i bet
[01:58] <beingaware> is there any other sondes being set free within 100km of me?
[01:58] <Darkside> unlikely
[01:58] <beingaware> ahaha
[01:58] <beingaware> seems they all go into the drink for the next few days
[01:59] <beingaware> was hoping one would go up north
[01:59] <beingaware> which it does from time to time
[02:00] <Darkside> keep running predictions
[02:01] <Darkside> see what weather patterns make it head north i guess
[02:04] <beingaware> I bet you moree might fly this way
[02:05] <Darkside> depends if they launch from there
[02:05] <Darkside> you'd have to ring up the BOM and find out
[02:06] <beingaware> damn it
[02:06] <beingaware> it seems to end up in crap land
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[02:11] <beingaware> why must I tune my scanner into the police bands
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[02:13] <beingaware> at lest I heard the speed camera being deployed haha
[02:15] <beingaware> going to find him and take some happy snaps
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[07:32] <radim_OM2AMR> morning to all
[07:32] <radim_OM2AMR> TOmek SP9UOB is chasing for STS-4 pico from saturday - http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FSP9UOB-9&timerange=3600&tail=3600
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[08:23] <Ugi> Mornin' all - How is life in the rarefied atmosphere of UKHAS this morning?
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[08:30] <beingaware> @Darkside, I grew up in Adelaide
[08:30] <beingaware> :)
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[08:54] <radim_OM2AMR> Tomek is on the landing site, it looks that we have another hangman (STS-4)
[08:54] <fsphil> big tree?
[08:55] <radim_OM2AMR> fsphil, I don't know, just watching spacenear and aprs
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[08:57] <Penfold> radim_OM2AMR: Google Street View ? :D :D
[08:59] <radim_OM2AMR> Penfold, have you available for that location ? I can't see it :-(
[09:00] <radim_OM2AMR> oh, i got it :-( holly s&t :-(
[09:01] <eroomde> Randomskk: 'awk - reducing the average biology PhD by 6 months'
[09:01] <eroomde> Iain Waugh, 2013
[09:02] <Randomskk> hah
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[09:09] <radim_OM2AMR> Penfold - http://i.imgur.com/v8EW3Fz.jpg
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[09:12] <LazyLeopard> radim_OM2AMR: Still looking for STS4?
[09:12] <radim_OM2AMR> it seems, that our pico loves trees. Tomek SP9UOB is onsite
[09:13] <fsphil> trees and high voltage power lines, all in one location. very efficient
[09:13] <fsphil> there's probably a river or lake nearby
[09:13] <LazyLeopard> Heh. Trees do seem to be a favourite HAB descent target...
[09:13] <radim_OM2AMR> fsphil :-D
[09:14] <radim_OM2AMR> STS-4 hung on a tree during launch too :-D
[09:15] <radim_OM2AMR> 10m tall tree, ladder was used for rescue short after launch, see tracker near launch site
[09:15] <LazyLeopard> Ah. It *REALLY* likes trees then. ;)
[09:16] <radim_OM2AMR> same payload few weeks ago :-D http://stsproject.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/IMG_7160.jpg
[09:16] <radim_OM2AMR> just the box is replaced by the polystyrene ball
[09:17] <LazyLeopard> Heh!
[09:18] <mfa298> someone needs to come up with a payload design that's repelled by trees instead of attracted to them.
[09:19] <fsphil> guided chute
[09:20] <eroomde> yes
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[09:20] <fsphil> I've been wondering if even something as simple as a thing to close the chute a bit, giving some control over the speed
[09:21] <fsphil> if you see it heading for a forest, have it drop a bit faster
[09:21] <Penfold> fsphil: it's an idea
[09:21] <Penfold> :D
[09:21] <radim_OM2AMR> into the lake :-)
[09:22] <mfa298> could you acheive the same with an openable vent hole in the top of the chute?
[09:22] <fsphil> well if it floats, lake would still be better than a 20m tree :)
[09:23] <radim_OM2AMR> that's true :-D
[09:23] <Penfold> just give it a downward pointing camera and if (altitude < 200m && predominant_colour == 'dark green') { panic(); }
[09:23] <Penfold> :D
[09:23] <Penfold> or better 'fire_rocket_jet()'
[09:24] <fsphil> the ability to identify a safe landing spot and move to it would be fantastic
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[09:24] <radim_OM2AMR> emergency ignition during descend :-)
[09:25] <Penfold> :
[09:25] <Penfold> D
[09:25] <Penfold> actually, triggering a bunch of hi-brightness flashing LEDs on landing wouldn't be dumb
[09:26] <Ugi> is it common to have ground-location assistance? I was wondering about a siren and/light if I can detect landing efficiently.
[09:27] <Penfold> ugh - landing = 'I haven't moved in time t, I still have GPS and my altitude < some suitable fudge)
[09:27] <Penfold> siren might be a bit unfriendly
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[09:27] <mfa298> could you have a set of accurate (laser?) measuring devices to get a number of distance samples to the ground. If they're all within 1-2m it's flat, if there's a large variation assume it's not a good landing location.
[09:27] <Ugi> I was just thinking of a short pip every second or two
[09:28] <Penfold> you've never been in a house with a smoke alarm with a flat battery, have you :D :D
[09:28] <Penfold> . o ( Arrhghh! Make it STOP! )
[09:28] <Ugi> Well I guess it would motivate _someone_ to find it ;-)
[09:29] <daveake> All my bleeper-equipped payloads have had a label on the outside "Remove this jumper to stop that annoying noise"
[09:29] <Ugi> Yes - I had thought something along the lines of "<------> cut here for quiet"
[09:29] <Penfold> *grin*
[09:30] <mfa298> To disable cut the blue wire.
[09:30] <mfa298> or is it the red one
[09:30] <Penfold> Wait, no...
[09:30] <daveake> Needs to be a tool-less option. Don't encourage someone to go find a tool (it might find a hammer first)
[09:30] <daveake> he*
[09:31] <Ugi> fair point
[09:31] <Penfold> daveake: smart
[09:32] <mfa298> The other reason for tool-less is you'll get to the payload after some trekking and realise you left the cutters in the car.
[09:32] <Ugi> interesting thought thou' - a smoke alarm siren might be a good choice for size & weight.
[09:32] <Ugi> mfa298: teeth!
[09:33] <daveake> You can get cheap and very loud piezo buzzers - just apply a few volts (more = louder)
[09:34] <daveake> Had one on my very first flighgt. Hadn't had time to add code/driver to turn the thing on after landing, so it wass on permanently. It was so loud we put gaffer tape over it at the launch. Then forgot to remove the tape. It was *still* loud enough to hear 20 metres away where it landed
[09:36] <daveake> It landed in someone's garden. He was there but didn't hear it, as the pitch was too high for his elderly hearing!
[09:36] <radim_OM2AMR> .. but his dog was unusual angry :-D
[09:39] <daveake> hah
[09:39] <Ugi> I must look into this.This type of thing? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190827619127
[09:39] <daveake> Well if you have 12V handy
[09:40] <daveake> Maplin do a few for around £1
[09:40] <Ugi> Great. I'll look there.
[09:40] <beingaware> woohooo, managed ADS-B range of 325km with just a bit of wire haha
[09:40] <Ugi> I thought maybe a lithium pp3 would be enough for the 12v one even it that's only 9v.
[09:41] <daveake> It will be
[09:41] <daveake> This is fine http://www.maplin.co.uk/wire-endedpiezo-sounder-3211
[09:41] <daveake> Several others there
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[09:43] <radim_OM2AMR> TOMEK: I've found it. But it is in really high tree. 15m sondekilelr is in the half way
[09:44] <Penfold> radim_OM2AMR: your payload really does like trees!
[09:44] <Ugi> daveake: fab' thanks
[09:44] <radim_OM2AMR> yeah :-D not ordinary, but extraordinary tall trees
[09:44] <Penfold> "sondekilelr"??
[09:46] <radim_OM2AMR> Penfold, sondekiller is a tool for getting payload from tall trees, Tomek's SK - http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YEu1xgqKmQw/UZutGB1BXbI/AAAAAAAARkw/FzFM2yyYdpI/s1600/sondekiller.jpg
[09:47] <radim_OM2AMR> based on fishing pole
[09:47] <Penfold> ah. what my dad would can 'a gurt big 'ook' ('great big hook' in a Yorkshire accent)
[09:47] <Penfold> call
[09:50] <radim_OM2AMR> blades look brutal, so that's the reason for name Sonde-killer :-D
[09:51] <Ugi> razor-bladed quadcopters are clearly essential for this passtime.
[09:51] <radim_OM2AMR> or chainsaw :-D
[09:52] <radim_OM2AMR> of course, with permission of forrest owner
[09:52] <Ugi> chainsaw-bladed quadcopters! Now that I like!
[09:52] <radim_OM2AMR> :-D
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[09:53] <UpuWork> beingaware : http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=72_73&product_id=85
[09:54] <Darkside> UpuWork: already linked that tho him in another channel
[09:56] <UpuWork> rgr
[09:56] <UpuWork> oh reminds me
[09:56] <UpuWork> you got mail
[09:56] <radim_OM2AMR> UpuWork, what a beatiful piece !
[09:56] <UpuWork> thx radim :)
[09:57] <Darkside> UpuWork: cheers
[10:00] <beingaware> upuwork
[10:00] <beingaware> nice :)
[10:00] <beingaware> http://pi.icanhaz.org/uploads/2013-06-24%2019.19.55small.jpg
[10:00] <beingaware> you will like this, I live just past where it says wynumm
[10:02] <HixWork> Is this a new ADS-B amp UpuWork ?
[10:03] <UpuWork> yes
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[10:05] <Darkside> it works well
[10:05] <HixWork> cool
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[10:09] <HixWork> UpuWork, how do you fir it in the Hammond? Do you have to solder the ned-launches in situ?
[10:09] <HixWork> *fit
[10:10] <beingaware> Darkside, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Antenna-Adapter-BNC-Female-to-MCX-Male-Pigtail-DVB-T-GPS-SDR-Radio-RTL2832U-/230999747819?pt=AU_Electronics_Radio_Equipment&hash=item35c8a86ceb&_uhb=1
[10:10] <beingaware> yes? no?
[10:10] <Darkside> er
[10:10] <Darkside> depends what tv tuner sdr you have
[10:10] <Darkside> does yours have a MCX?
[10:11] <beingaware> actually yes, I have bnc connectors
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[10:11] <beingaware> yeah
[10:11] <beingaware> it does
[10:11] <beingaware> http://dx.com/p/rtl2832u-r820t-mini-dvb-t-dab-fm-usb-digital-tv-dongle-black-170541
[10:11] <beingaware> this tuner
[10:11] <Darkside> then sure, that cable would be fine
[10:12] <beingaware> how ironic
[10:12] <beingaware> its coming from sa
[10:12] <beingaware> lol
[10:13] <Darkside> hah
[10:13] <UpuWork> Yes Hix
[10:13] <UpuWork> the board slides in solders then rotates into place
[10:14] <beingaware> done!
[10:33] <Brian_> cheap model A pi UK http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raspberry-Pi-Model-A-256MB-Brand-New-Boxed-/321148601160?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item4ac5f2c348
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[10:43] <Steffanx> nice price.. and only two left
[10:45] <Ugi> 7 left. I may well take one. Thanks Brian_
[10:48] <Brian_> no problem I bought one but tempted to buy a second.
[10:52] <Ugi> Yes, I don't actually have any need for one but at £12 it's potentially well worth having in the bits-box!
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[10:56] <mfa298> certainly tempting at that price (around £20 new from farnell)
[10:57] <Ugi> Having never used linux or rpi before, anyone have a recommended place to start learning about my new toy?
[10:58] <HixWork> gimme on sec ugi
[10:58] <Ugi> No hurry - I don't have any urgent need.
[10:59] <mfa298> you might want to plug a wifi dongle in (probably with a powered usb hub) so you can get it online. Then plug in a keyboard, mouse and screen and have a play
[10:59] <Ugi> Have all of those things, so I'll try that - it ships with a operating system>
[10:59] <Ugi> ?
[10:59] <HixWork> Ugi, http://goo.gl/H6e4T
[10:59] <mfa298> you'll need to put something on an SD card
[11:00] <mfa298> raspbian is probably the popular choice of linux for the pi.
[11:01] <Ugi> Thanks HixWork. That's sorted out my train reading for a while!
[11:01] <HixWork> :D
[11:01] <Ugi> mfa298: Cool. I'll look that up. Thanks.
[11:02] <mfa298> If you want some slightly old school experience you can also get RiscOS (which ran on the acorn computers schools used a lot ~20 years ago)
[11:03] <mfa298> you can get various images from http://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads
[11:03] <HixWork> If anyone else is interested the link at 11:59 is O'Reilly Unix in a nutshell
[11:05] <mfa298> that looks slightly dated. I stopped using Solaris 7 quite a long time ago.
[11:06] <mfa298> although it's probably still a reasonable reference to various tools
[11:06] <Ugi> I still have my Acorn A3000 somewhere!
[11:07] <fsphil> riscos has a funky license
[11:07] <fsphil> it's not quite open source
[11:07] <mfa298> I've got a RiscPC although half the old games I've got don't seem to work on it.
[11:08] <Ugi> I used to speak ARM assembler back in the day. Would be funny if the pi could run some of my old code!
[11:08] <mfa298> it's a newer arm processor so you might need to do some work but could be interesting to try
[11:09] <mfa298> I know there were comments about old software not necessarily being compatible as the address space / instruction size has changed from the old Acorn machines
[11:11] <Ugi> I suspect there have been a lot of changes since the A3000.
[11:11] <fsphil> ah, Acorn renamed themselves to Element14 .. who sell Raspberry Pis
[11:11] <Ugi> makes more sense for me to learn ably linux these days.
[11:11] <fsphil> so it is very nearly a modern Acorn machine
[11:11] <Ugi> fsphil: that's interesting - I assumed they had died a death.
[11:12] <fsphil> "restructured"
[11:12] <fsphil> similar thing possibly
[11:12] <fsphil> owned by Broadcom now
[11:12] <fsphil> which strangly enough is the chip on the Pi
[11:13] <Ugi> Odd that.
[11:13] <mfa298> I think the old Acorn split into the hardware side (which became very successful) and OS which didn't do so well
[11:14] <Ugi> Yes, ARM was origianally the "Acorn RISC Machine" for the Arci'
[11:14] <Ugi> ARM split out long ago
[11:15] <mfa298> reading some of the wikipedia stuff it looks like some of the earliest ARM stuff was in the BBC (as a co-processor)
[11:16] <Ugi> I didn't know that, but it makes sense, I guess.
[11:16] <mfa298> so your modern smartphone is a distant relation of bits of the BBC
[11:16] <fsphil> better sound thankfully
[11:18] <staylo_> nothing sounds better than 'podd can dance', surely?
[11:18] <fsphil> aaah I remember that!
[11:20] Nick change: Spoz -> spoz|food
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[11:31] <Brian_> Ugi: if you need a hand setting up raspian let me know
[11:32] <Ugi> Thanks Brian_ - I won't be in a hurry - have many other projects too but it's time I learned somethin about Linux.
[11:33] <Brian_> no problem
[11:33] <Ugi> I have a feeling I may have been missing out for a while.
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[11:37] <fsphil> just bear in mind that the UI experience on the Pi is not great, it's very slow
[11:39] <mfa298> you might be as good learning linux with a Virtual Machine (assuming you've got a decent enough computer)
[11:41] Nick change: spoz|food -> Spoz
[11:41] <Ugi> OK. I'll look into that one too! Plenty to keep me busy here!
[11:42] <mfa298> If you go down the virtual machine route most people seem to recommend ubuntu for beginners (although I think a couple of us here prefer fedora)
[11:43] <mfa298> ubuntu would be closer to rasbian (they both use debian as their base)
[11:43] <fsphil> nice thing about linux is you can try them all :)
[11:43] <Ugi> OK, daft question here then: How different or similar are all these versions?
[11:43] <mfa298> and then get into Holy Wars about which is best.
[11:43] <fsphil> indeed
[11:44] <fsphil> though everyone knows Fedora is best
[11:44] <fsphil> the main difference is probably package management
[11:44] <fsphil> but each will give the default UI their own look
[11:44] <radim_OM2AMR> STS-4 pico (tree-lover) https://www.dropbox.com/s/oqvcnf7tl4zzpc6/20130624_112413.jpg <- image by SP9UOB
[11:45] <mfa298> unfortunately most of the channel might disagree with that - luckily it seems like they're currently away.
[11:45] <fsphil> yes I'm safe at the moment
[11:45] <fsphil> I didn't really like debian, but have to admit raspbian is very well put together
[11:45] <mfa298> looks like there's pidora for the pi now which might be based on fc18. I ought to give that a try sometime.
[11:45] <fsphil> so I may put Debian on one of my main machines here
[11:46] <Brian_> debian is the best :P
[11:46] <mfa298> I ought to try debian again. Ubuntu tends to upset me when I've tried it.
[11:46] <Brian_> ubuntu is normally recommended for behinners as it's has nice window manager
[11:47] <GW8RAK> I think I'm at the same stage as Ugi. But why is debian best? Practical reasons please, not just some obscure technical reason.
[11:47] <mfa298> a lot of what's best is down to personal choice.
[11:47] <GW8RAK> Tried Ubuntu many times, but have learnt more from the Pi in 6 months, than I ever have with Ubuntu
[11:48] <Brian_> I only every use at CLI level ie fro running web and database servers and have found it very stable etc, I used to run FreeBSD
[11:48] <fsphil> ubuntu is probably the most different of all the distros
[11:48] <mfa298> personally I like Fedora (or CentOS/RHEL), but that's partly as it's what I've grown up with and CentOS/RHEL tends to be the preferred option for servers.
[11:48] <fsphil> they like to do their own thing a lot of the time
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[11:50] <Brian_> where as i don't like centos, a lot of the time it's personal preference
[11:50] <mfa298> You almost need to look at the linux distro's like a family tree, but then in some cases it gets a bit more complex than that.
[11:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - XABEN-51 Tuesday 25/06/2013"
[11:51] <GW8RAK> But is that personal preference based on what software is available or is it that distro X uses 2 lines of code to do function Y while distro Z needs 20 lines?
[11:51] <mfa298> they all come from the same routes (kernel and base software), then there's a few original distros (Debian, RedHat, Gentoo, LFS) and then other options are based on those.
[11:51] <fsphil> most distros will offer the same software
[11:51] <GW8RAK> That could be defined as obscure technical details, but is it that for example, one distro is better for robotics etc?
[11:51] <fsphil> what you may find is that certain distros will use newer versions of some programs
[11:52] <fsphil> which isn't always a good thing
[11:52] <Brian_> indeed i'm always hesitant to upgrade to latest version until thouroughly yesyed
[11:53] <fsphil> but it can be annoying sometimes if you need a feature in the next version up
[11:53] <Brian_> tested
[11:53] <GW8RAK> I struggle with the unexplained bits of Linux. People will post code on a website which works for them, but it doesn't work for me using, supposedly the same distro, i.e Raspbian
[11:53] <Brian_> what code is it? perl? php? bash
[11:54] <GW8RAK> Sorry, not code, but a sequence of commands usually without any explanation of what they are doing or why.
[11:54] <Brian_> a lot of code will have depndancies
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[11:54] <mfa298> Within the REHL/CentOS/Fedora family Fedora is bleeding edge so has the latest and greatest stuff but then has a shorter life cycle (~18 months) and could break in interesting ways, RHEL is more stable but will be using older software with a longer support life (5-6 years), CentOS is just a clone of RHEL.
[11:55] <Brian_> for command help use man
[11:55] <fsphil> RHEL costs many moneys
[11:55] <mfa298> theres similar things within Debian and Ubuntu (Ubuntu has LTS releases which are supported longer and more stable)
[11:56] <GW8RAK> Code is the next bit on the learning curve
[11:56] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - 29th/30th June"
[11:57] <Brian_> first bit is deciding which languiage
[11:58] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - 29th/30th June"
[11:59] <Spiruel> Sorry, does anybody have an idea of how long it takes to fill a Hwoyee Balloon 1000g with 2.23 cu m of Helium, using BOC gas?
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[12:00] <UpuWork> a few mins
[12:01] <fsphil> depends on your regulator
[12:01] <Spiruel> Apparently the filling kit has a bendy end with an 'outlet diameter similar to a biro pen, say about 3/8 or 9.5mm'
[12:01] <fsphil> and how full the tank is
[12:01] <Spiruel> is that bad/too small?
[12:02] <fsphil> that's similar to the one I use, it's not too bad
[12:02] <Spiruel> phew
[12:02] <fsphil> I haven't timed it, but I don't remember it taking too long
[12:02] <Spiruel> so I wrap the neck of the balloon around this small nozzle, and cable tie+duct tape it secure
[12:03] <fsphil> make yourself a filling rig
[12:03] <Spiruel> sorry for the questions, Lancaster Uni are organising delivery now and I'm getting overloaded with emails
[12:03] <Spiruel> is a filling rig essential?
[12:03] <fsphil> at the very minimum you'd want a hose pipe
[12:03] <fsphil> you need the balloon to rise to be able to measure the neck lift
[12:04] <Spiruel> Ok, I have the water bottle at the specific weight for that
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[12:04] <fsphil> yes
[12:04] <Spiruel> so If I attach a bit of hosepipe to the end of the nozzle and the balloon, that can be my filling rig?
[12:04] <Spiruel> ands that's to allow the balloon to lift
[12:05] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/ideas:balloon_filler
[12:05] <fsphil> some use this sort of device
[12:05] <Darkside> we have something similar
[12:05] <Darkside> we have a regulator, then hose, then adaptors to a larger bit of pvc tube
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[12:05] <Darkside> that fits in the balloon neck nicely
[12:06] <Darkside> makes a better seal
[12:06] <fsphil> I've used just a hose pip before, but the pvc pipe will be more snug
[12:06] <Darkside> but a bit of hose is good enough for a first launch
[12:06] <fsphil> pipe*
[12:06] <Spiruel> I think the filler is too much for me to build short notice... Am I OK to use hosepipe tubing?
[12:06] <Spiruel> darkside: Thanks
[12:06] <fsphil> should be fine
[12:06] <fsphil> just remember to take into a account the weight of the hose
[12:06] <fsphil> when measuring lift
[12:07] <Spiruel> got to go now, sorry for the noob questions... many thanks
[12:07] <Spiruel> fsphil: Ok, certainly
[12:08] <fsphil> I'll need to make one of these mass flow meters sometime
[12:09] <HixWork> Could a MAF sensor from a car induction system work for that?
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[12:34] <Ugi> HixWork - MAF sensor an interesting thought. Would need to find the right sort & calibrate it but I'm sure it should work in theory.
[12:34] <Ugi> Not difficult to integrate on a small microcontroller either.
[12:34] <Ugi> I wonder what the actual flow-rates are.
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> Ugi: _way_way_way_ too high
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> You're looking at hundreds of litres a minute for a small car
[12:37] <Ugi> Ah. That might be an issue.
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> Well - you could always fix the issue by increasing the balloon size a lot.
[12:38] <Ugi> Must be quite a range between tickover at 1K rpm and flat-out at 7K or whatever.
[12:40] <SpeedEvil> Not forgetting that the throttle is closed at tickover (mostly) - meaning that it's way less than 1/7th the air
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> From memory, my nissan micra wanted about 7% of the fuel at idle as flat out
[12:41] <Ugi> I'm amazed that you ever asked it.
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> I connected an injector cable up to a laptop soundcard
[12:42] <Ugi> cunning.
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/gear.gif
[12:43] Action: SpeedEvil tries to remember the axes.
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> I think that's injector pulsewidth vs speed
[12:44] <SpeedEvil> You can clearly see the five gears.
[12:44] <Ugi> I was looking at it thinking that the various gradients must be different gears.
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> That's not being driven at all hard.
[12:45] <Ugi> And the noise below from braking, I suppose
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> Well - no.
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> At any below full throttle, it will drop pulsewidth. UInder actual braking, it stops injection
[12:46] <Ugi> Well, slowing rather than braking - where the road spead is above equilibrium for the throttle setting.
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[12:47] Action: SpeedEvil goes back to trying not to fail at welding.
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> 'stick' welding is called that for a reason.
[12:48] <zyp> because it sticks? :p
[12:48] <Ugi> Welding is another skill that is on my "to learn" list.
[12:48] <Ugi> Along with learn Linux & learn to speak cantonese, amongst others
[12:48] <SpeedEvil> zyp: I can light up wonderfully well on a nice flat bit of metal.
[12:48] <SpeedEvil> And make - if not great - acceptable beads.
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> I go to what I actually want to weld, and it just sticks.
[12:50] <Ugi> Are you going for the world's first welded HAB payload? Now we know why you were talking about such big balloons!
[12:51] <Darkside> american style
[12:51] <zyp> I've only tried MIG/MAG welding, and sticking is usually not the primary problem there
[12:59] <cn8dn> r
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[13:01] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[13:03] <HixWork> Ugi I have an OBD interface so can check fuel rates on my car at some point
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[13:05] <Ugi> HixWork - so much to play with, so little time!
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[13:06] <HixWork> snap - though being relatively quiet at work does help :D
[13:07] <Ugi> Busy at work, plus kids, plus wife works full time = not much time for anything.
[13:07] <HixWork> bugger!!
[13:09] <Ugi> Yeah. Still, doesn't do to be idle!
[13:11] <HixWork> the devil makes work for idle hands ;p
[13:18] <Darkside> ooh god
[13:18] <Darkside> that movie
[13:18] <Darkside> (Idle hands)
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[13:45] <radim_OM2AMR> STS-4 chase continues http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FSQ9DIQ-9&timerange=21600&tail=21600 Tomek's friend - Mariusz SP9DIQ has climbing equipment (and skills)
[13:46] <fsphil> just looking at that photo of the trees, brings back memories
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[13:56] <HixWork> Sorry CAD lock again :/
[13:56] <Maxell> So many test on the map :-)
[13:56] <Maxell> Hope they will launch soon.
[13:56] <Maxell> Need to get my HAB-fix for a HABless weekend.
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[13:58] <mfa298> sounds like there's at least three launches in the next 7 days
[13:58] <Maxell> NOAA 18 inbound for all dutchies
[13:58] <Randomskk> had a launch from cambridge today
[13:58] <Randomskk> school group with just spot though
[13:59] <fsphil> did it work?
[13:59] <eroomde> did they get into a spot of bother?
[14:00] <HixWork> is B-2 LeoBodnar?
[14:01] <mfa298> I think B-2 is LeoBodnar (LeoB is a bit of a give away)
[14:01] <Randomskk> haven't heard yet
[14:02] <eroomde> that's the problem with spot
[14:02] <eroomde> you let go
[14:02] <eroomde> you wait a few hours
[14:02] <Randomskk> indeed
[14:02] <eroomde> you cross your fingers
[14:02] <eroomde> it's like apollo 13 renetry
[14:02] <eroomde> except much more boring
[14:02] <eroomde> and longer
[14:02] <eroomde> and with ,much lower stakes
[14:03] <Maxell> mfa298: thats great news!
[14:03] <HixWork> didn't spot that mfa298 still recovering from LeMans :)
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[14:12] <craag> Could do with clearing the tracker, chromium on my laptop tries to kill it twice before it finishes parsing.
[14:14] <Ugi> Seems like there are some new payloads being tested. I'm going to have to get mine on the tracker soon.
[14:14] <Ugi> Just got it reading GPS, RTTY and saving to SD over the weekend.
[14:14] <Ugi> Very basic so far but working :-)
[14:16] <mfa298> firefox seems to do ok loading it up.
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[14:19] <HixWork> anyone seen Chromoscope? http://goo.gl/WfrG0 very cool
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[14:21] <Steffanx> The "visible" view is still the best view HixWork :)
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[14:22] <ibanezmatt13> fternoon :)
[14:22] <HixWork> dunno Hydrogen Alpha is pretty spectacular
[14:22] <beingaware> morning
[14:22] <ibanezmatt13> Just got back from Manchester Airport, watched an unusual arrival - Antanov 225 Mirya
[14:22] <ibanezmatt13> 6 engines, huge thing
[14:23] <ibanezmatt13> It dwarfs the A380
[14:24] <ibanezmatt13> I reckon by the end of this week I'll have finished the payload box, some styrofoam and uhuPOR glue is on its way :)
[14:26] <griffonbot> Received email: Costyn van Dongen "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - HABANERO2 - Sunday 29/06/2013"
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[14:28] <HixWork> That must have been pretty cool to see land ibanezmatt13
[14:28] <ibanezmatt13> it certainly was. And, we witnessed an A330 Thomas Cook emergency!
[14:29] <fsphil> A380 is impressive
[14:29] <ibanezmatt13> As it was rolling down the runway, a really REALLY loud explosion happened. It came to a halt on the runway, fire engines came, and there were loads of diversions. Right engine caught fire
[14:29] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, it is, but the Antanov 225 is better :)
[14:30] <fsphil> not seen one yet :)
[14:30] <x-f> costyn, 29th is Saturday?
[14:30] <costyn> aargh
[14:30] <ibanezmatt13> The horizontal stabiliser (wing at the back) has the same span of the actual wing of a 737! That's not even the main wings!
[14:31] <costyn> x-f: thanks
[14:31] <griffonbot> Received email: Costyn van Dongen "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - HABANERO2 - Sunday 30/06/2013"
[14:32] <x-f> costyn, np, we might do a launch on Sunday, too, that's why i know the dates :)
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[14:50] <daveake> costyn Don't feel too bad I get dates right I just can't remember which flight is which :p
[14:51] <ibanezmatt13> Afternoon Daveake :) How do?
[14:51] <eroomde> arko: pingpongpang wakeup
[14:52] <daveake> Well it's Monday. Aside from that np
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[14:52] <ibanezmatt13> good good :)
[14:53] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, you're slightly in the lead ;)
[14:54] <ibanezmatt13> now even more so :)
[14:54] <JelmerD> [spam] Could you guys please vote on my friends photograph? http://canon.nrc.nl/Picture/view/1374 (click on "stemmen"). Takes about 2 seconds of your time. No email or what so ever required.
[14:55] <JelmerD> Ps. It is a really awesome photograph! :) If you don't vote, you should at least check it out. I guess you'll guys love it. For sure
[14:55] <ibanezmatt13> wow that's one nice Photo
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[14:56] <fsphil> TRON
[14:57] <ibanezmatt13> We've designed our box to be more wider than taller, like a pizza box. That much of a problem aerodynamically?
[15:00] <HixWork> in basic terms, what is the difference between Hwoyee and Totex balloons?
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[15:00] <HixWork> of equivalent weight
[15:00] <SpeedEvil> Theyr' different brands.
[15:00] <HixWork> heh
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[15:01] <SpeedEvil> The hwoyee - at least some batches - seem to exceed their stated burst diameter, or perhaps have a very high delta-p before burst.
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[15:01] <SpeedEvil> This leads to it being easier to float them.
[15:02] <HixWork> so they are more likely to float. Extra stirks needed to ensure they don't then?
[15:02] <HixWork> prcing seems very dissimilar between them
[15:03] <ibanezmatt13> we're looking at using a Hwoyee and really don't want it to float :)
[15:07] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: In general, balloons ascending at 5m/s do not float
[15:07] <SpeedEvil> ^which begin
[15:07] <ibanezmatt13> ah good :)
[15:10] <HixWork> ah, so they don't have more of a tendency to float, it is just that if you wanted to, it is easier to get them to?
[15:10] <fsphil> not always
[15:10] <fsphil> but often
[15:11] <fsphil> there was a batch of them that burst early not that long ago
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[15:20] <SpeedEvil> There are people like Ben Krasnow on youtube - who make you watch their videos because of the sheer research and dedication involved in putting together episodes on such topics as DIY X-ray backscatter imaging.
[15:20] <SpeedEvil> And then there is this guy.
[15:20] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW1UhKH8zuY&sns=em
[15:26] <HixWork> the guy at 1:36 followed through by the looks of things
[15:27] <SpeedEvil> It's all one guys work.
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[16:04] <Chetic> yey rtl2832 dongle is here
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[16:04] <fsphil> uau
[16:05] <fsphil> er
[16:05] <fsphil> yay
[16:05] <Chetic> lol
[16:05] <Chetic> I'm a bit concerned about the connector
[16:05] <fsphil> fingers out of alignment
[16:05] <fsphil> which one did you get?
[16:05] <Chetic> uhh
[16:05] <Chetic> "mini digital tv stick"
[16:06] <Chetic> from "digital energy"
[16:06] <fsphil> haha
[16:06] <fsphil> magic
[16:06] <Chetic> it was silly cheap
[16:06] <fsphil> it's very tiny in the pics I see
[16:06] <Chetic> yeah couldn't make out the connector
[16:06] <Chetic> I just guessed
[16:07] <Chetic> but there should be a converter from this to the preamp I ordered from Upu, right?
[16:09] <Chetic> uploadin pix
[16:14] <Chetic> http://i.imgur.com/B1ipfGw.jpg
[16:14] <Chetic> http://i.imgur.com/JZFdqtB.jpg
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[16:15] <Chetic> is there a name for that format?
[16:15] <craag> MCX connector I think
[16:15] <craag> I have it on one of my rtlsdrs
[16:15] <craag> Even with a decent adaptor, it has intermittent connectivity issues.
[16:15] <craag> I'd suggest trying to replace it.
[16:17] <Chetic> >:|
[16:17] <craag> Yep it's MCX.
[16:17] <jarod> Chetic
[16:17] <Chetic> yes, jarod?
[16:17] <jarod> sec
[16:17] <jarod> http://www.ebay.com/itm/281119075320?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
[16:17] <jarod> http://www.ebay.com/itm/281114080029?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
[16:18] <Chetic> excellent, I can grab one of those from work
[16:18] <jarod> ordered 10 of both... yesterday.... waiting for confirmation email...
[16:18] <Chetic> the non-MCX connector there is what the HABamps use?
[16:19] <x-f> HABamp has SMA connectors
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[16:20] <Chetic> ah yeah, nice
[16:21] <x-f> you can get SMA-MCX adapters on ebay too
[16:21] <Chetic> and at work, too!
[16:21] <x-f> a nice place to work, i guess
[16:22] <Chetic> embedded systems consultant
[16:22] <Chetic> they spoil me :p
[16:24] <Chetic> I think the biggest privilege is being able to use the climate chamber for testing
[16:25] <Chetic> though it won't do vacuum
[16:25] <Chetic> that would've been ideal
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[16:28] <SamuelBancroft> has anybody sent a gm tube up on a balloon?
[16:30] <Chetic> I'm really curious about that too
[16:31] <Chetic> seeing as how the atmospheric radiation protection is about the same as on mars (from what I understand)
[16:32] <eroomde> SamuelBancroft: yes
[16:32] <eroomde> forget who exactly but a few people have
[16:32] <SamuelBancroft> im interested in seeing their graphs... can't find any though
[16:33] <arko> mornin
[16:35] <Ugi> There is a GM tube due to go up at the w'end I think - was id daveack?
[16:35] <eroomde> nick_ is working on a better detector
[16:35] <WILLdude> Hi. Streaming my hw again. https://join.me/369-022-531
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[16:37] <SamuelBancroft> I'm involved with one launching on Friday
[16:37] <SamuelBancroft> If you're interested this is what we're using: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiLKWjr9ALE
[16:37] <Ugi> Sorry - it was yours I was thinking of!
[16:38] <SamuelBancroft> OK :P
[16:38] <Ugi> At least I read the message, even if I didn't remember it! ;-)
[16:39] <SamuelBancroft> A balloon in 1933 noticed a considerable differences @ 50,000 ft it seems: http://stratocat.com.ar/artics/explorer-e.htm
[16:39] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/ziAbEop.png
[16:39] <SamuelBancroft> fingers crossed for a good trend :D
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[16:44] <Ugi> in 1933 they had impressive hats, it seems.
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[17:08] <ibanezmatt13> Here's a very good watch for people who like planes and fantastic music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSiWrZvT3hE
[17:09] <ibanezmatt13> Make sure it's turned up loud
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[17:20] <Steffanx> You have to like that type of music though ibanezmatt13 :) ( i do )
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[17:22] <ibanezmatt13> Excellent isn't it :)
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[17:28] <Steffanx> if you like this you must like Hans Zimmer and Two Steps From Hell too, ibanezmatt13 :)
[17:28] <fsphil> Two Steps are great
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[17:28] <ibanezmatt13> never heard it
[17:29] <fsphil> if I ever make a film, they're totally doing the trailer music :)
[17:29] <ibanezmatt13> I'll look it up :_
[17:29] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[17:29] <fsphil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP1QHVNHMAE
[17:30] <Steffanx> There are videos with hours of music from them on youtube ibanezmatt13
[17:30] <ibanezmatt13> excellent, thanks
[17:30] <Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3P2iaWma-Y for example
[17:30] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkcIllFdp7U - not quite the same. Though does contain quite high altitude kittens.
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[17:31] <Steffanx> Too bad that movies does not apply to me SpeedEvil :)
[17:31] <Steffanx> *-s
[17:31] <ibanezmatt13> this Two Steps from Hell is awesome!
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[18:02] <jarod> there sis this discussion of pirate music on airband freqs again..... i posted this... http://danceradio.nl/dr-sweeper-demos/danceradio-and-janet-its-good.mp3 .... some laughed... some got mad :P
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[18:20] <eroomde> Randomskk: i have just seen iain's shooping list. on the phone rachel told him that he had to do because she was out. he's done well, bless him. the list (I just spotted it, he didn;t show it to me) is: 'Mustard. Beer. Cider. Sweet Chilli Sauce. Champagne'
[18:21] <Randomskk> haha
[18:21] <Randomskk> excellent list
[18:21] <Randomskk> all gels and liquids too
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[18:32] <griffonbot> Received email: mclane "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Zenith - Friday 28/06/13"
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[18:35] <ibanezmatt13> Ja guten abend :)
[18:36] <mclane> Guten Abend allerseits ;-)
[18:36] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[18:36] <mclane> Seit wann spricht man hier Deutsch?;-)
[18:37] <KT5TK_QRL> Wir haben leider noch lange nicht Abend in Texas, aber auch hier spricht man Deutsch...
[18:39] <mclane> Talking about german in the US, I have just seen a documentation about Werner von Braun on german TV
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[18:41] <KT5TK_QRL> If the US didn't get him overseas maybe the Germans would have been the first on the moon :)
[18:42] <mclane> I doubt that, it needed a visionary president like Kennedy and a hell of money
[18:44] <KT5TK_QRL> Yeah, I was just joking. The Germans would have taken too much time to optimize all the safety regulations before launching the first rocket to space...
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> The germans did launch the first rocket to space.
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> (For some definitions of space)
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> They kept hitting Kent though.
[18:44] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes I meant manned rocket
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> There were proposals for manned V2s IIRC
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> Then again - tehre were lots of _truly_ wacky things proposed.
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> http://io9.com/5983278/how-the-nazis-tried-to-bomb-new-york
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[18:48] <KT5TK_QRL> What I've seen in Peenemuende they were quite far with rocket technology, but manned rockets were still far away.
[18:48] <mclane> Yea, but it cost many people their lives
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> Quite.
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> Then again - it was a very inefficient means of making war.
[18:49] <mclane> not only in England but also in the concentration camps where the rockets have been assembled
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> The argument could probably reasonably be put that compared to building - say - conventional bombers - lhe waste of labour (whatever its source) reduced germanies war effort.
[18:51] <SpeedEvil> And hence saved lives due to the hideous inefficiency. (Though of course costing them on production)
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[18:56] <mclane> costyn: are you available for a question?
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[19:11] <LeoBodnar> Evening gents
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[19:13] <Upu> evening Leo
[19:15] <LeoBodnar> I have not forgotten, I am ironing the bugs out :) Looks like Si4460 SDN pin needs to be controlled rather then just tied to GND
[19:16] <LeoBodnar> What is the ACTUAL max Vdd for MAX-6G module?
[19:17] <LeoBodnar> I have run it at 2.7V by mistake and it did not release magic smoke (yet)
[19:17] <Upu> 2.2 I think
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[19:18] <Upu> 2.0V
[19:19] <LeoBodnar> OK. Datasheet says MAX-6G range is 1.75-2.0v 2.0 and MAX-6Q is 2.5-3.6v. I am stuck in the middle with Vdd=2.2v for now
[19:19] <Upu> just don't send it back :)
[19:19] <Upu> you need the MAX7
[19:19] <Upu> however...
[19:19] <Upu> no real supply until end of August
[19:19] <Upu> though I'm badgering for some more samples
[19:19] <LeoBodnar> I do indeed!
[19:20] <LeoBodnar> Somebody said they die at low temperatures?
[19:20] <Upu> not that I'm aware of
[19:20] <LeoBodnar> Or is it XTAL drift?
[19:20] <Upu> again as above
[19:20] <Upu> they've been up on a few flights
[19:20] <LeoBodnar> OK
[19:21] <Upu> and have worked fine
[19:21] <Upu> the only one thats had an issue was damaged by my hot air rework before it launched
[19:21] <Upu> the metal can came off and some internal components fell out
[19:21] <Upu> I put them all back
[19:21] <Upu> but :)
[19:21] <LeoBodnar> OK, software people tend to blame hardware and the opposite.
[19:21] <Upu> There are 10 out there with people for testing
[19:21] <chrisstubbs> Upu you are a brave man putting those back in
[19:21] <Upu> I've not had any fail in flight yet
[19:22] <LeoBodnar> What's inside :)? I am tempted to pop it open.
[19:22] <Upu> lol
[19:22] <Upu> 1 sec I'll show you the one cuddykid destroyed :)
[19:22] <chrisstubbs> The case is very hard to put back on too :P
[19:22] <LeoBodnar> No need I guess
[19:23] <chrisstubbs> http://bit.ly/19lJb9Q is the one i destroyed
[19:23] <chrisstubbs> neo6 not max6 though
[19:23] <Upu> that looks workable :)
[19:23] <chrisstubbs> It was
[19:23] <SamuelBancroft> Upu: Is there a way I can get in contact with the owner of the Manchester tracker, or will he already know about the Friday launch?
[19:23] <chrisstubbs> i bodged the components back on and it kinda gets a fix
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[19:24] <Upu> Middlesbrough
[19:24] <Upu> he'll know
[19:24] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_0448.JPG
[19:24] <chrisstubbs> Just finished soldering up yet another cheapo board, got some foils on the way from steve too :)
[19:25] <SamuelBancroft> if you're sure, thanks
[19:25] <chrisstubbs> lmao, paint stripper removal method?
[19:25] <SamuelBancroft> middlebrough* sorry
[19:25] <Upu> SamuelBancroft you could tweet him @M0DTS
[19:25] <SamuelBancroft> I shall thanks
[19:26] <LeoBodnar> It looks sad :)
[19:26] <Upu> I lolled when I took it out of the packet :)
[19:26] <SamuelBancroft> will our flight be on the upcoming launch window on spacenear.us/tracker soon?
[19:26] <Upu> yep I'll put it up SamuelBancroft
[19:26] <Upu> Question LeoBodnar do you use a stencil and oven on your boards ?
[19:26] <SamuelBancroft> tyvm
[19:26] <LeoBodnar> I am curious if they are pulling XTAL frequency or just correcting it in software
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[19:27] <LeoBodnar> Yes I do. Life's to short! Sometimes I don't use/have a stencil but always reflow them.
[19:27] <Upu> how do you put the paste on without a stencil ?
[19:29] <LeoBodnar> With a toothpick. Solder paste is very forgiving. I also have a stereomicroscope and a very fine soldering bit to fix any problems.
[19:29] <Upu> cool
[19:29] <LeoBodnar> Stereo microscope is the best thing I have ever bought after soldering iron and a scope.
[19:29] <Upu> and do you get your PCB's made in the UK ?
[19:30] <LeoBodnar> Prototypes are usually done at https://www.pcb-pool.com/ppuk/index.html and production panels at http://www.multi-circuit-boards.eu/
[19:33] <LeoBodnar> What is the current consumption of typical Arduino or derived project at normal MIPS it usually runs?
[19:33] <Upu> with that design
[19:33] <Upu> at 10 mw
[19:33] <LeoBodnar> E.g. on pAVA boards?
[19:33] <Upu> with that step up from a single AA you should be getting ~ 48 hours from an AA
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[19:33] <Upu> in power saving from the battery
[19:33] <Upu> on a 1.8V board
[19:33] <Upu> PAVA pulls about 65mA
[19:34] <Upu> µXABEN which is a PIC with the LTC step up @ 1.8 is possibly a fraction better
[19:35] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/%C2%B5Xaben.JPG
[19:35] <ibanezmatt13> My Dad's just suggested that we used solid rocket boosters on our flight...Oh dear :)
[19:35] <Upu> bit lardier than yours but having seen yours I may be having a redesign :)
[19:35] <LeoBodnar> I am getting about 40mA from 2.2V source with MAX-6G and 10mW TX.
[19:35] <chrisstubbs> ah thats what I was going to ask, what are those hook things you use for programming upu?
[19:36] <Upu> pogo pins
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> PM chrisstubbs
[19:36] <LeoBodnar> At least you have space for nice logos :)
[19:36] <chrisstubbs> awesome will add that to the wish list :)
[19:36] <Upu> lol
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> ah that didn't work. Chrisstubs I got the flight mode code working :)
[19:37] <Upu> well that was just some ideas thrown on a board
[19:37] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/Scan109.jpg
[19:37] <Upu> as you can see someone made a boo boo :)
[19:39] <WILLdude> Hello
[19:39] <LeoBodnar> Lol :) It is so disappointing to overlook something silly. I don't know anybody who has not done it.
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[19:39] <Upu> evening WILLdude
[19:40] <Upu> anyway redesign I suspect
[19:40] <LeoBodnar> Does UBLOX sell their ICs in small volume or it is MOQ 1,000+ and NDA type of product?
[19:40] <Upu> I'm going to try the ATMega328P-MU next
[19:40] <Upu> the ublox AMY-6
[19:40] <Upu> http://www.u-blox.com/en/gps-modules/pvt-modules/amy-6m.html
[19:40] <Upu> its BGA
[19:40] <LeoBodnar> You get a free stencil at https://www.pcb-pool.com/ppuk/index.html
[19:40] <WILLdude> What should I say to my science teacher about HAB?
[19:41] <Upu> Yeah its also 10 times as much as Mitch :)
[19:41] <Upu> though quicker I suspect
[19:41] <Upu> ask him/her if he's heard of it WILLdude
[19:42] <Upu> an yes LeoBodnar I think when I enquired MOQ was 1000
[19:42] <chrisstubbs> :O this chat5 has COPPER inside
[19:42] Action: chrisstubbs thinks cheapo4 might actually work
[19:43] <chrisstubbs> s/chat5/cat5
[19:43] <LeoBodnar> s/h//
[19:43] <Upu> I have the data sheet for it
[19:44] <LeoBodnar> Did you have to sign an NDA?
[19:44] <Upu> nope
[19:44] <Upu> 8mm x 6.5mm x 1.2mm
[19:44] <LeoBodnar> Can I have a look at it then please?
[19:44] <Upu> ofc
[19:44] <Upu> pm your mail address
[19:45] <Upu> hang on
[19:45] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/amy-6m_datasheet_gps.g6-hw-10052.pdf
[19:45] <LeoBodnar> There is some GPS silicon on DigiKey but I think they are just RF frontends
[19:45] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - XABEN-51 Tuesday 25/06/2013"
[19:45] <Upu> yes
[19:45] <LeoBodnar> Ta
[19:45] <Upu> come to the conference and attend Ed's GPS Workshop
[19:45] <Upu> you will go home being able to make a GPS
[19:45] <Upu> he tells me
[19:46] <LeoBodnar> Something tells me I shouldn't but I am arguing back
[19:47] <LeoBodnar> THis week predictions are horrible. Everything ends up in the channel or in France
[19:48] <WILLdude> I doubt the answer will be anything but WTF go habe lunch.
[19:48] <LeoBodnar> I wanted to try a new tracker.
[19:48] <Upu> yep a common issue :)
[19:48] <LeoBodnar> So the only option I think is to try to float it away.
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[19:49] <Upu> floating is good
[19:49] <Upu> if you get it to float
[19:49] <Upu> especially with the low powered trackers
[19:49] <Upu> question are you clocking the PIC from the SI4460 ?
[19:50] <WILLdude> i can't say things unless I've spent ages thinking about it.
[19:50] <Upu> thats a good motto WILLdude
[19:50] <Upu> engage brain long before opening mouth
[19:51] <WILLdude> I don't engage my brain before moving my middle finger to the UP position.
[19:51] <LeoBodnar> I am starting on the internal oscillator and switching over to Si4460 clock. I need to check clock failure mode though
[19:51] <Upu> how to make friends and influence people
[19:51] <Upu> I don't think I can do that on the AVR
[19:51] <mfa298> WILLdude: if you're talking to your teacher tomorrow lunchtime get him to look at spacenear.us as there should be a flight on.
[19:52] <WILLdude> It's her.
[19:52] <Upu> this weekend I'm going to sit down and put this Si4460 on PCB
[19:52] <mfa298> well get her to look at spacenear.us then.
[19:53] Action: mfa298 made a bad assumption - just shows why you shouldn't assume things
[19:53] <LeoBodnar> Cool. Let me know if you make any sense of their programming API. It's so much more complicated than Si4432
[19:53] <Upu> KT5TK has some code for it
[19:53] <Upu> my other issue is the AVR needs to run at 4Mhz for 1.8V
[19:54] <Upu> and you can't find a small 4Mhz crystal
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[19:54] <Upu> all the huge HC49 ones
[19:54] <Upu> may end up using a resonator
[19:54] <fsphil> can you use an 8mhz crystal and divide the clock?
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[19:54] <LeoBodnar> Hmm interesting twist
[19:54] <mfa298> WILLdude: when talking to your teacher one of the things that's likely to help is talk about why you want to do it. If you're enthusiastic about it that will show and help.
[19:54] <mfa298> remember you're WILL dude, not WONT dude
[19:55] <fsphil> urg
[19:55] <Upu> yes actually fsphil DIV/8
[19:55] <Upu> may use 16Mhz
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[19:55] <LeoBodnar> You can get divided clock from Si4460 if you start up from something else and switch over
[19:55] <fsphil> ah there isn't a /2 is there?
[19:56] <Upu> nope
[19:57] Nick change: WILLdude -> WONTdude
[19:57] <WONTdude> Actually, I'm WONTdude now.
[19:58] Nick change: WONTdude -> DEFINITELYWILLdu
[19:58] Nick change: DEFINITELYWILLdu -> WILLdo
[19:58] Nick change: WILLdo -> WILLdude
[19:59] Nick change: WILLdude -> Willdude123
[19:59] Nick change: Willdude123 -> WILLdude
[20:01] <WILLdude> sorry about that.
[20:01] <fsphil> we all have an irc identity crisis eventually
[20:01] <LeoBodnar> If a balloon somehow floats, will there be any trackers beyond France/Germany/Poland?
[20:01] <fsphil> not really
[20:02] SP9UOB-Tom (~verox@matrix.verox.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[20:02] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening All
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> Evening!
[20:02] <fsphil> evenin tom
[20:02] <SP9UOB-Tom> STS-4 Was allmost recovered :-) We have really high trees in Poland ;-)
[20:02] <Upu> Ah Mr Brol
[20:03] <Upu> quick PM whilst you're on
[20:03] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: in the flesh ;-)
[20:04] Action: SP9UOB-Tom is just after elbow surgery
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[20:04] <fsphil> intentional?
[20:04] <qyx_> SP9UOB-Tom: do you need firemen again?
[20:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: hard to say, i just go to the surgeon for consultation, and he said - we must cut ;-)
[20:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> and he did the surgery
[20:11] <WILLdude> For some reason, meditation at my school seems like glorified Neuro-Linguistic Programming.
[20:11] <fsphil> good as new SP9UOB-Tom?
[20:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: we'll see in 2 weeks
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[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:15] <ibanezmatt13> This may be a stupid question, but do we need any public liabilty insurance in case my payload hits something or someone at terminal velocity (which of course I hope it wont) :)
[20:16] <mfa298> nooooooo, not the insurance debate.....
[20:16] <Upu> you could do with it but you won't get it :)
[20:16] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: in general I think most people dont have any insurance - and it's not easy to get
[20:16] <ibanezmatt13> why's that?
[20:17] <daveake> Insurers are risk adverse
[20:17] <ibanezmatt13> ah of course
[20:18] <daveake> and they go all "what if it brings down a jumbo jet full of people?"
[20:18] <ibanezmatt13> So what happens in that event?
[20:18] <ibanezmatt13> Do we get sued millions?
[20:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> i'll try to explain how do i get insured
[20:19] <SP9UOB-Tom> but i must find some words in dictionary
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[20:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> how do You call hobby of making flying models ?
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> model airplanes
[20:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> and in general? Modellong ?
[20:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> modelling ?
[20:20] <nigelvh> RC (Radio Control)
[20:20] <nigelvh> ?
[20:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> in general hobby of making flying models - lets cal it modelling
[20:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> so i went to the insurance company
[20:22] <SP9UOB-Tom> and i ask them to insure my hobby - aircraft modelig
[20:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> and i ask to include to the policy balloons to weight 4kg
[20:23] <WILLdude> What does happen if it has an accident?
[20:23] <ibanezmatt13> that's not a bad idea actually. And it covers you completely from a HAB incident?
[20:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> and they did it
[20:23] <ibanezmatt13> how much did this cost roughly?
[20:24] <daveake> and they know these are free-flying uncontrolled balloons that go to 30km?
[20:24] <RocketBoy> I wonder if they will cover people in the UK?
[20:24] <SP9UOB-Tom> yes it covers all damages caused by model - up to 200 000 PLN (about 50 000 GBP)
[20:24] Action: Upu googles how much a 747 costs
[20:24] <SP9UOB-Tom> daveake: yes, they know - but they treat it as a MODEL
[20:25] <Upu> at least you have some cover
[20:25] <RocketBoy> not gonna cover much of a road crah either
[20:25] <PD4KDZ_klaas> ..don't hit a plane ;-)
[20:25] <RocketBoy> crash
[20:25] <WILLdude> How much was it?
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[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> in germany the problem with normal RC insurance is that balloons cannot be included
[20:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> WILLdude: less than 200 PLN
[20:25] <daveake> per flight? per year?
[20:25] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, worth a try I guess.
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> btw I once even contacted Lloyd's and they got me a contact in Bremen
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> when I told them that we have no control over the balloon, they declined
[20:26] <griffonbot> Received email: Samuel Bancroft "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Zenith - Friday 28/06/13"
[20:27] <SP9UOB-Tom> when im done all the stuff (NOTAM, approval) im cant be sued for air crash
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[20:27] <SP9UOB-Tom> because safety should be ensured by Polish Air navigation Agency
[20:27] <ibanezmatt13> You shouldn't be liable for any accident if you get permission from the CAA anyway
[20:28] <ibanezmatt13> really
[20:28] <SP9UOB-Tom> yes
[20:28] <WILLdude> What happens when it hits a power line?
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[20:28] <SP9UOB-Tom> so, insurance covers ie car damage or any injuries caused by the balloon
[20:28] <ibanezmatt13> I'm sure that's covered too WILLdude
[20:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> poweline will not notice it :-)
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[20:29] <WILLdude> Does this look OK? http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/serial-cable-ftdi-cable-p-356.html
[20:30] <mfa298> you'de probably need to read the documentation carefully when you get it, they could well put something in there that means they can get out of it.
[20:30] <SP9UOB-Tom> i think i explained it - as my
[20:30] <SP9UOB-Tom> as far as my English is
[20:31] <ibanezmatt13> thanks SP9UOB-Tom :) Good English too
[20:31] <SP9UOB-Tom> understandable
[20:31] <Upu> possibly WILLdude
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[20:32] <Upu> http://proto-pic.co.uk/ftdi-basic-breakout-5v-new/?gclid=CKfuxO7E_bcCFUTHtAodsH8AlA
[20:32] <Upu> possbly
[20:32] <WILLdude> I'd prefer the cable to the board
[20:32] <WILLdude> http://proto-pic.co.uk/ftdi-basic-breakout-5v-new/?gclid=CKfuxO7E_bcCFUTHtAodsH8AlA
[20:32] <ibanezmatt13> night All :)
[20:32] <mfa298> SP9UOB-Tom: that was aimed more at people looking for insurance in the UK. Although it's been a few years since I tried looking for Liability Insurance (and I stopped looking last time as I decided I was covered under other policies due to what I was doing and who for)
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[20:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> mfa298: i have litterally included free balloons up to 4kg in the policy
[20:34] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude, either should work fine
[20:34] <chrisstubbs> if it says FTDI it should be good :)
[20:34] <mfa298> SP9UOB-Tom: sounds good, and certainly worth a try.
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[20:34] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: and how much a 747 costs :) ?
[20:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> just treat balloon as flying model. Thats all
[20:35] <mclane> ping costyn
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> hi mclane
[20:35] <mclane> Hi LunarLander
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[20:37] <mfa298> Hopefully you never have to test that they'll payout.
[20:37] <mfa298> although I'm sure you've read the documents that come with it so it would be hard for them to claim it's not covered.
[20:38] <mfa298> just thinking in the UK they'll have some clause hidden away saying that you're only covered to an altitude of 500m or similar.
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[20:39] <SP9UOB-Tom> mfa298: yes i have read :-) I have clearly stated that covers all damages caused by the model
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[20:42] <S_Mark> hello Lunar_Lander
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[20:52] <WILLdude> ordered FTDI
[20:53] <LeoBodnar> chrisstubbs: have you done RFM22 tests in the lab?
[20:53] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar, yes!
[20:53] <chrisstubbs> sorry kodak printer drivers giving me grief, let me find the link...
[20:54] <fsphil> all aspects of printing are designed to annoy
[20:54] <LeoBodnar> And drain your cash
[20:54] <fsphil> unless you've found a way to print cash
[20:55] <chrisstubbs> it insists you update the driver at least once a week, then deletes all your printer setting, then you have to go through endless prompt boxes i just hold down enter for
[20:55] <chrisstubbs> then it restarts your computer
[20:55] <LeoBodnar> Do you think it dropped out because of condensation?
[20:55] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar, thats my theory
[20:55] <chrisstubbs> http://chris-stubbs.co.uk/wp/?p=295
[20:55] <LeoBodnar> Conformal coating?
[20:55] <Upu> the crystals are only rated to -20C as confirmed by the manufacturer
[20:55] <WILLdude> I have never ever had any problems when I don't reebot and it asks me to.
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> wb chrisstubbs
[20:56] <WILLdude> U
[20:56] <WILLdude> Upu: I think I'm not going to bother with NMEA anymore.
[20:56] <Upu> ok
[20:56] <WILLdude> I forgot most of it too :)
[20:56] <Upu> good to learn
[20:56] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar, might help. But yeah as upu says the component ratings arent great
[20:57] <WILLdude> I'll use the proprietary one for the tracker I'm making.
[20:57] <chrisstubbs> however I didnt see it drop out in my tests, a longer soak may have been different
[20:57] <WILLdude> I call it a tracker but all it will ever track is my desk.
[20:57] <Upu> every launch I've done thats floated the RFm22B has crapped out
[20:57] <LeoBodnar> Proprietary what? Everything is proprietary lol
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[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> hi SamuelBancroft
[20:58] <Upu> in fact it only came to life on the last one due to a short on the HX1 board producing about 0.5w of heat which warmed it back up
[20:58] Action: Upu pokes Lunar_Lander everyone does not need greeting :)
[20:58] <WILLdude> LeoBodnar: NMEA has no owner.
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> I greet him because I would like to ask him something
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[20:59] <LeoBodnar> Free greetings to all deprived!
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[20:59] <SamuelBancroft> Lunar_Lander Hello :P
[21:00] <mikestir> Upu: LeoBodnar: I have some RFM23B based sensors that I built. They work fine in the freezer for extended periods down below -20. Difference is the Si4431 instead of Si4432 and they are the SMT crystal version. Most RFM22Bs seem to use the HC49/4H xtal
[21:01] <Upu> hmm
[21:01] <Upu> all of the RFM22B's I've used/sold have been SMD
[21:01] <Upu> >120
[21:01] <mikestir> I have noticed that at full power the RFM22B comes nowhere near the rated 1.8V minimum voltage
[21:01] <mikestir> they crap out around 2.7 - 2.8
[21:01] <mikestir> measured at the module terminals
[21:01] <Upu> Never run one at full power, 10mW seems ok at 1.8V
[21:02] <Upu> well 12.5mW if you're counting
[21:02] <LeoBodnar> Did they all crash? lol
[21:03] <craag> I've run the 868MHz RFM22B at 1.8V at 100mW.
[21:03] <mfa298> WILLdude: if any of your tracker is transportable it might be worth taking in when you talk to your teacher.
[21:03] <LeoBodnar> Maybe crystal needs higher capacitance loading at low temperatures. Higher loading usually means more stable oscillations.
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> SamuelBancroft, I'd like to ask what UV sensor you want to fly
[21:03] <Upu> no generally they are ok LeoBodnar
[21:03] <LeoBodnar> BUt longer startup times (not an issue with CW)
[21:03] <Upu> but putting a reboot loop in every 20 telemetry lines is generally accepted practice
[21:04] <Upu> I'm convinced its not the SI chip as they've used them in Cubestats
[21:04] <mikestir> in general i've found them to be pretty solid when vcc isn't marginal
[21:04] <WILLdude> mfa298: Haven't built yet.
[21:04] <Upu> right dog walk
[21:05] <mikestir> anyway the RFM22B is going to getting harder to find
[21:05] <mikestir> *be getting
[21:06] <chrisstubbs> Wow the ublox power saving mode makes a lot of difference! Tracker just dropped from 80ma to 50ma
[21:06] <mfa298> even if you have a few parts to show and maybe a diagram of how it goes together - doesn't have to be compex but may help explain some of it.
[21:07] <SamuelBancroft> Lunar_Lander If you look at the announcement on the mailing list, I've posted links there! :D https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/ZgXaEVDWBoA
[21:07] <LeoBodnar> -40C crystals are easy to get - http://uk.farnell.com/txc/7m-30-000meeq-t/quartz-crystal-30-mhz-10-pf-smd/dp/2308724
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> cool! thanks
[21:08] <LeoBodnar> Not sure why HopeRF is going for the cheapest rubbish
[21:08] <mikestir> margins I guess
[21:08] <mikestir> it's not like the modules are expensive
[21:09] <mikestir> still waiting for the new Semtech-based modules to turn up in Europe
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[21:10] <LeoBodnar> What's that? Sniff-sniff
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[21:10] <mikestir> the new modules?
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[21:14] <LeoBodnar> yes, what are they?
[21:14] <mikestir> rfm69w and rfm69hw
[21:14] <mikestir> based on some Semtech device as far as I can tell
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[21:14] <mikestir> SX1231H
[21:15] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all
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[21:15] <mikestir> I think rfstore in Germany has them, but I was waiting for Quasar to get them so I could get a couple to try out
[21:16] <mikestir> they RFM69W is targeting RFM23B and the HW the RFM22B
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[21:17] <Willdude123> Hello
[21:17] <LeoBodnar> What is their frequency resolution?
[21:17] <DanielRichman> x-f: that form wasn't really designed for humans
[21:18] <DanielRichman> are you just using it to test parsing strings?
[21:18] <Upu> I have some RFM69W's
[21:18] <Upu> they dont' go down to 1.8v
[21:18] <mikestir> no. I was kind of hoping they would with the second PA turned off, as would be the case in the non-HW version
[21:18] <mikestir> is that not the case?
[21:18] <Upu> thats the one I'm retro fitting LeoBodnar (crystal)
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> 61Hz bummer (
[21:19] <LeoBodnar> :(
[21:19] <x-f> DanielRichman, i'd like to upload telemetry from our backup GSM tracker, is there a correct way to do that without dl-fldigi?
[21:19] <mikestir> there is an SX1231 no H which does go down to 1.8 V, but I but HopeRF just used the H version on all of them for scale
[21:19] <LeoBodnar> No DominoEX then....
[21:19] <DanielRichman> x-f: Ideally you'd be looking to make requests to CouchDB rather than the transition app
[21:20] <DanielRichman> the transition app is for the old dl-fldigi and isn't used any more (so may be turned off soon)
[21:20] <Upu> I just ordered some more direct from hoperf today mikestir (RFm22B's)
[21:20] <DanielRichman> it has a html form on it just for debugging really
[21:20] <DanielRichman> here's a reference uploader: https://github.com/ukhas/habitat/blob/develop/habitat/uploader.py
[21:21] <DanielRichman> it uses a couchdb library, which is cool if you can get hold of one in your language, but otherwise
[21:21] <DanielRichman> this https://github.com/ukhas/habitat-cpp-connector contains the implementation used in dl-fldigi that depends only on cURL
[21:21] <DanielRichman> I link that because it's fairly minimal so may help if you have to build the http requests yourself
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[21:22] <x-f> DanielRichman, thanks, i'll read that code, sorry for the trouble
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[22:02] <Willdude123> Hello.
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[22:03] <Willdude123> Cable is on it's way, hopefully.
[22:04] <Willdude123> Upu, you around?
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[22:16] <Willdude123> Remind ,e
[22:17] <Willdude123> Me, what are the advantages of the ublox proprietary interface?
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[22:20] <daveake> reminder: http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs_highlighted/highaltitude.log.20130623.html
[22:22] <Willdude123> Thanks, sorry for the stupid question.
[22:23] <daveake> not stupid, just repetitive :)
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[22:23] <Willdude123> Ah right? So why is it easier?
[22:23] <daveake> Is it?
[22:24] <daveake> wasn't for me as I already had an NMEA parser I wrote ages ago
[22:24] <Willdude123> I mean why is it easier to get values from it?
[22:24] <daveake> 'cos you can just load the reply into a structure/record/whatever-it-is-in-your-language and read the values within
[22:25] <daveake> With NMEA you have to parse (search for commas, counting fields) then convert from ASCII to integer/float/time
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[22:30] <fsphil> it's also already decimal degrees (fixed point)
[22:30] <fsphil> not that oddball xxyy.yyyy format
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[22:31] <fsphil> ah well
[22:41] <mfa298> even if you have a few parts to show and maybe a diagram of how it goes together - doesn't have to be compex but may help explain some of it.~..
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[22:54] <LeoBodnar> Upu, are you around?
[22:57] <adpirz> hey newbie here, looking to build my first balloon / camera rig, and debating between a raspberry pi style rig or an arduino rig, any sage advice?
[22:57] <eroomde> arduino
[22:57] <LeoBodnar> no Pi
[22:57] <eroomde> it will save you thyme
[22:58] <adpirz> much obliged, any good sites / resources for reference?
[22:58] <eroomde> the ukhas wiki
[22:58] <eroomde> it's a mess but contains everything
[22:58] <eroomde> brew a hot beverage of your choice and dive in
[22:58] <LeoBodnar> The only way I can find stuff on it is via sitemap. http://ukhas.org.uk/start?do=index
[23:00] <adpirz> much obliged; anyone here state-side know if there are legal hurdles to cross, i.e. FAA / FCC regs?
[23:00] <eroomde> asking here works too
[23:00] <eroomde> though a lot of the time the answers will be a link to the wiki
[23:00] <eroomde> adpirz: you can ask some of the US regulars like arko
[23:00] <eroomde> or wb8elk who is actually the gosfather of hab
[23:01] <eroomde> godfather*
[23:03] <arko> haha
[23:03] <arko> adpirz: if you are under 4lbs you just follow part 101
[23:03] <arko> no waiver required
[23:03] <arko> you dont need faa approval, but you should be nice and at least issue a NOTAM
[23:04] <adpirz> gotcha, is there a standard procedure / time period in which to do that?
[23:05] <adpirz> ie, call at least three days before a launch?
[23:05] <arko> yeh
[23:05] <arko> actually
[23:05] <arko> 3 days
[23:05] <arko> to 24hrs before
[23:05] <adpirz> haha
[23:05] <arko> usually the time window
[23:05] <arko> keep it simple, and issue it 2 days before
[23:06] <adpirz> any recommendations on cameras?
[23:06] <arko> hmm
[23:06] <arko> pretty much anything that can run CHDK
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[23:06] <adpirz> so a canon then
[23:07] <arko> and if you really get bored you can watch me ramble in my talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-v-B03a1Jk
[23:07] <arko> yeah, Upu found a good camera recently
[23:07] <arko> but there is a list (google is your friend :P ) with all the supported cameras
[23:07] <arko> pick whats in budget
[23:07] <arko> sometimes you can get a good deal on ebay
[23:07] <arko> most of the time really
[23:08] <adpirz> kudos on working for JPL
[23:08] <daveake> A810 is the one Upu found
[23:08] <daveake> 28mm equiv and 16MP
[23:08] <daveake> Uses AAs and is fairly light
[23:09] <adpirz> gotcha, found it for a decent price on ebay
[23:09] <adpirz> what about balloon suppliers? struggling with that
[23:09] <arko> Kaymont is usually who i go with
[23:10] <arko> adpirz: http://wiki.032.la/nsl/HABEX2
[23:10] <arko> check out the balloon section
[23:10] <arko> the habhub balloon calculator is a great tool for picking too
[23:11] <arko> pop in your hab mass and all this stuff, and you can try different balloons
[23:11] <arko> see what ascent rate / alt you like
[23:12] <adpirz> what would you say the total cost of the launch rig is, fully filled with he ?
[23:12] <arko> whats the payload?
[23:12] <arko> mass
[23:13] <adpirz> 4 lb
[23:14] <arko> so He will be around $240
[23:14] <arko> balloon assuming you use a 1200g
[23:14] <arko> is about $90
[23:14] <arko> parachute from spherechutes is about $50
[23:14] <arko> and you probably want a scale
[23:15] <arko> so you are looking at $400ish
[23:15] <arko> thats no payload
[23:15] <arko> He includes tank rental cost
[23:15] <arko> now, these are the prices i got
[23:16] <adpirz> so u'd strongly advise against using H instead?
[23:16] <arko> not at all
[23:17] <arko> just be careful
[23:17] <arko> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:hydrogen
[23:17] <arko> thats a good write up
[23:17] <arko> i went with He my first hab just to avoid extra risks
[23:18] <arko> i was a little chicken about it
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> I've also wondered about natural gas.
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> For very, very, very cheap launches.
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> (though you get 5km lower altitude or so)
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> But it's about $1 for a m^3
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[23:23] <adpirz> is there a preferable arduino board or any one will do? looking at an uno
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[23:25] <arko> are you planning on using aprs?
[23:26] <adpirz> how hard is it to get a ham license?
[23:26] <arko> not too difficult
[23:27] <arko> there are probably ham tests being given around you
[23:27] <arko> ask a local ham club or google :)
[23:27] <adpirz> googling now, but what are the pros/cons vs. cell GPS?
[23:28] <Randomskk> the school flight today recovered OK, nice
[23:28] <arko> cell/GPS can be cheap and light, but reception is only good below 20,000ft
[23:28] <arko> ish
[23:29] <adpirz> whats the APRS ceiling?
[23:29] <arko> also if you land in a low reception area, youre screwed
[23:29] <arko> line of sight
[23:29] <adpirz> ahhh, makes sense
[23:29] <arko> you can get far enough away from earth to not be heard with 300mW
[23:29] <arko> with a hab that is
[23:31] <adpirz> next session is in mid september, would like to launch before then: so if not cell, what are your thoughts on SPOT and RDF beacon?
[23:33] <arko> if you go RDF i'd have your team ready and well practiced
[23:33] <arko> it takes a little trial and error from our findings
[23:33] <arko> never used SPOT
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> SPOT is great - if it lands upright
[23:34] <Randomskk> today someone used just SPOT and it worked, but I was surprised
[23:34] <Randomskk> highly recommend an actual radio tracker that constantly radios back positions
[23:34] <arko> ^^^
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> The GPS also dies >18km IIRC
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[23:50] <adpirz> assuming i'm working with APRS, what arduino board works best?
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[23:50] <Darkside> adpirz: i take it you're in the US?
[23:50] <adpirz> yep
[23:50] <Darkside> righto, just checking
[23:50] <Darkside> APRS cant be used airborne in the UK
[23:51] <Darkside> in the US it's fine, as long as you haev the required licence
[23:51] <adpirz> so what's ur alternative? i'm asking because i might want to forego the licesnse
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> 433MHz 50bps ascii FSK
[23:51] <Darkside> yerp
[23:51] <Darkside> UKHAS standard telemetry
[23:51] <Darkside> we use it in australia too
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> We have our own network of recievers - which work well.
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> And report to a central location.
[23:52] <Darkside> arduino + GPS + Radiometrix NTX2
[23:52] <Darkside> effectively
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> Ranges of 500km are not uncommon at altitude, with fairly modest recievers.
[23:53] <Darkside> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
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[23:53] <SpeedEvil> (But this is generally pointless if you want to recover the device - you don't care about ranges over 100km)
[23:56] <adpirz> so would an arduino uno board work?
[23:57] <Darkside> sure
[23:58] <Darkside> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=68
[23:58] <Darkside> there's a level-shifted GPS module
[23:59] <beingaware> oh gps tracking?
[23:59] <beingaware> :D
[00:00] --- Tue Jun 25 2013