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[06:12] <steve_____> I know Luner_Lander is not on atm but I just looked at his double deck tracker: http://s.gullipics.com/image/n/h/b/5yv7u4-kraqln-1sob/IMG0222.jpeg and was concerned about the capacitors being so close to the voltage regulator - I think its touching even...
[06:12] <steve_____> wouldn't it get too hot?
[06:22] <Darkside> depends how much power it's dissipating
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[08:47] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning :)
[08:48] <mfa298> Morning
[08:49] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs and I yesterday worked out how to get my program to set flight mode and check it in the same loop as my gps() so I could transmit a True or a False for flightmode in my datastring
[08:49] <ibanezmatt13> However, we concluded that the ACK from the GPS is not "instant"
[08:50] <ibanezmatt13> If I timed it right between the GPS sending sentences and the ACk response it worked for a bit, but then the times crossed over and conflicted resulting in a load of GPGGA being taken in as part of the ACK
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[08:50] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[08:51] <mfa298> that sounds like something you'de need to check with the datasheet (or possibly someone that knows more than I do)
[08:51] <mfa298> Hi OZ1SKY_Brian
[08:51] <ibanezmatt13> well, we decided that what would solve it certainly is to disable the GPS sending sentences automatically
[08:51] <ibanezmatt13> When we want a GPGGA, call for it; when we want an ACK, it would be instant after sending
[08:52] <mfa298> that could work.
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> But I think not many people know of a command to do this
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> Even reading the datasheet
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[08:52] <M0CJM_Neil> Morning All
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> Morning M0CJM_Neil
[08:53] <M0CJM_Neil> How we doing? Whats going on?
[08:53] <mfa298> the other thing you could possibly do is keep a record of what you've sent to the ublox and then remove them from the list once you've had the ack - and if you don't get an ack after a period of time re-send the command
[08:54] <ibanezmatt13> but don't we still have the problem of the GPS interfereing
[08:54] <mfa298> so far it's been pretty quiet in these parts this morning.
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> What about using those PUBX commands to disable all sentences?
[08:55] <M0CJM_Neil> Oh ul hveass f auc today :-) So whats the B-2 Balloon all about up at Towcester?
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> Instead of all but GPGGA
[08:56] <M0CJM_Neil> Oh my crappy wireless keyboard!
[08:56] <M0CJM_Neil> I meant to say "Oh thought we would have a mass of launches today"
[08:56] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: you probably know more than I do at this point - all I'd end up doing is reading the datasheet to try and answer what the ublox would do
[08:56] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I'll have a good read of it again
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[08:57] <mfa298> M0CJM_Neil: I think most people decided not to as the wind predictions wern't that good.
[09:01] <M0CJM_Neil> Oh ok, its gone a bit qiet recently on launches :-)
[09:03] <Chetic> I have a BU-353 GPS. Does anyone know of a way to disable the cocom limit?
[09:03] <mfa298> flights tend to be like busses, you wait ages for one and then you get three at the same time
[09:04] <mfa298> Chetic: you might need to search google but it may not be possible to disable it.
[09:04] <Chetic> it's looking that way
[09:05] <Chetic> not sure what to do about it
[09:05] <Chetic> how weak the winds are at the altitudes where I won't get a position
[09:06] <mfa298> you might need to look up the actual chipset inside the gps to find out if some form of flight mode is possible
[09:07] <Chetic> ah right
[09:07] <mfa298> best place to see what's likely to happen is look at the predictors - but it can change over time.
[09:08] <mfa298> most people here use and recommend the ublox gps
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[09:09] <Chetic> does it use the AND condition for altitude/velocity?
[09:10] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, could it have anything to do with page 88: http://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/datasheets/Sensors/GPS/760.pdf
[09:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Video is up for todays rocket launch http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com/
[09:11] <mfa298> Chetic: you'de probably need to check the datasheet, I've not used it myself yet but they've been taken to over 40km
[09:12] <cardre> Chetic: it's up to the firmware developer of the chipset to decide what their interpretation of the rules means
[09:12] <cardre> Chetic: some of the its or, others are and - it's not normally published either, so you have to go on other's experience with the same GPS chipset/firmware revision
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[09:13] <Chetic> yes, that's why I asked :p
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[09:14] <mfa298> Chetic: what are you planning on using it for ?
[09:15] <Chetic> transmitting hab position over radio
[09:15] <Chetic> try to follow it with a car, I guess
[09:15] <ibanezmatt13> look what I've found :) https://www.thecraag.com/MAX6_GPS_Polling under features
[09:16] <mfa298> if it's for a balloon then the ublox is likely to be fine - plenty of people have done that already
[09:16] <Chetic> right, but I already have a GPS, and the ublox was $90 at sparkfun
[09:17] <Chetic> feel like I will have time to catch up once it drops below the altitude limit again
[09:17] <mfa298> Chetic: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=59
[09:18] <Chetic> that's better!
[09:18] <mfa298> You might also want to talk to Upu / UpuWork about the options.
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[09:18] <Chetic> you mean flight mode?
[09:19] <mfa298> and about the various breakout boards and ordering options.
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[09:20] <Chetic> this looks perfect though http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51
[09:20] <Chetic> I'm fine with £30
[09:20] <Chetic> thanks for the tip!
[09:21] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: I should have known craag/Phil_M0DNY would have had something
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[09:22] <ibanezmatt13> I'm reading his C code on Github, finding what I need, translating it into Python, and making it work in my own program; nice little exersise :)
[09:22] <mfa298> it's highly recommended to talk to Upu before ordering, I believe there's a pleasant surprise.
[09:22] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Direct link seems to work better http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ADq5sOfq-lI
[09:22] <cm13g09> mfa298: hehe, so I hear
[09:23] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: yep that's a very useful exercise
[09:23] <eroomde> reading other people's code is a really useful (and sometimes quite tricky) skill to develop
[09:23] <ibanezmatt13> it sure it, morning eroomde :)
[09:23] <ibanezmatt13> is*
[09:24] <mfa298> just stay away from other peoples perl code, that can be nasty to understand
[09:24] <ibanezmatt13> considering it's C code to Python, for me, it's not that easy. But I'm doing it ok so far
[09:24] <cm13g09> mfa298: Especially that which belongs to Gutteridge....
[09:26] <eroomde> this live hd stream from copehenhagen is a very good thing
[09:27] <mfa298> learning to read code is a great skill, once you've done a few languages you'll find you can get a good idea of what other languages are doing even if you've never used them.
[09:27] <bertrik> well, except for perl :)
[09:28] <mfa298> $_ exactly
[09:28] <fsphil> this stream is rather good
[09:28] <fsphil> much better than their last one
[09:28] <eroomde> yes, you find the are all more similar than they are different after a while
[09:29] <cm13g09> mfa298: cleverly done there :P
[09:29] <ibanezmatt13> Just a quick one, when I send a command to the GPS sendUBX(setNMEA_off, len(setNMEA_off)) because it's not as vital as flight mode and it wont be in my telemetry, do I need to read a response for it? And also, I guess I only need to disable the NMEA sentence response once in the program, is that correct?
[09:29] <mfa298> cm13g09: I had to hope no one else posted in the middle otherwise it wouldn't have made sense.
[09:30] <cm13g09> lol
[09:30] <cm13g09> indeed
[09:30] <cm13g09> you have to watch out for Python though.... it's very, very, selfish...
[09:30] <ibanezmatt13> how do you mean?
[09:31] Action: cm13g09 waits for penny to drop....
[09:31] <fsphil> if you have a function to read an ACK then it should be really simple to do anyway, even if it's not critical
[09:31] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5750785
[09:32] <ibanezmatt13> It has servere timing issues sometimes, that's why I'm disabling NMEA response unless called
[09:32] <cm13g09> I suspect people now hate me forever....
[09:32] <mfa298> best practice would suggest it's always good to get the acknowledgements but I doubt everyone does that.
[09:34] <ibanezmatt13> To be honest, I do want to get the acknowledgment, I just wondered whether it would work in the same function getUBX
[09:34] <ibanezmatt13> getUBX_ACK sorry
[09:35] <Hix> ibanezmatt13, have you got a link to craag's polling code please? link from his wiki is 404ing
[09:35] <ibanezmatt13> https://github.com/thecraag/CRAAG1/blob/master/CRAAG1.ino
[09:36] <ibanezmatt13> See, I construct the expected ACK in my ACK function but I think this will make it only work for a flightmode ACK
[09:36] <ibanezmatt13> Unless I just copy the function and change it slighylu
[09:36] <ibanezmatt13> slightly*
[09:37] <Upu> who needed to talk to me ?
[09:37] <ibanezmatt13> getUBX_ACK_flightmode() getUBX_ACK_nmea() I guess that could work so long as I changed the expected ACK
[09:37] <mfa298> Upu: Chetic was looking at buying gps modules so suggested talking you for ordering options
[09:38] <Upu> ah sure
[09:38] <Upu> here now if you're about
[09:38] <Upu> use UKHAS as a coupon code
[09:38] <Upu> :)
[09:38] <Hix> cheers ibanezmatt13
[09:39] <ibanezmatt13> nps
[09:40] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: or pass in the ID you expect to get an ACK for
[09:41] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes that's a good idea
[09:41] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not sure what the response looks like. What should I look for in the datasheet for this?
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[09:41] <fsphil> the ack contains the same command ID you sent
[09:42] <fsphil> if you look at your command to set the flight mode
[09:42] <fsphil> the third and fourth bytes are the ID (iirc)
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[09:42] <fsphil> there will be in the ACK packet
[09:42] <ibanezmatt13> I mean, do I only need to look at the ID, nothing else?
[09:42] <fsphil> these*
[09:43] <fsphil> it'll be the only part of the ack that changes
[09:44] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks
[09:44] <fsphil> if you look at the datasheet at the strcture of the ACK packet
[09:44] <fsphil> you'll see what I mean
[09:44] <ibanezmatt13> So instead of setting ackByte to 0 for flightmode, I'll set ackByte to ID as will be brought in when the function is called. Thanks
[09:45] <BenBancroft> Would there be any reason that would make my signal in the waterfall in dl-fldigi to be slanted to the right, and slowly moving towards that direction?
[09:45] <fsphil> I've not seen the code ibanezmatt13
[09:45] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5844387
[09:45] <ibanezmatt13> It's not complete, I'm half way through changing it
[09:45] <fsphil> BenBancroft: temperature most likely. the ntx2 (I'm assuming?) is sensitive to temperature changes
[09:46] <BenBancroft> ok
[09:46] <BenBancroft> but im guessing it will stop when warmed up?
[09:46] <fsphil> it should do
[09:46] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: seems you're already doing that
[09:47] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, will the ACK still have the same length. Look at where I contruct the ACK response. Is that exactly the same? I'm looking on the datasheet
[09:47] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: yep, the ACK is always the same size
[09:47] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks
[09:47] <fsphil> the only bit that changes is the payload, those two bytes which you're setting from MSG
[09:48] <BenBancroft> Another problem is the 4th line of data (sent one line at a time) I read always fails halfway through? All other lines read fine.
[09:48] <fsphil> hoes does it fail?
[09:49] <fsphil> how*
[09:49] <BenBancroft> bad characters
[09:49] <BenBancroft> and the bad characters are very simular each time
[09:49] <fsphil> your timing could be slightly off
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[09:51] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, ackPacket[7] = MSG[3] #ACK id Does that mean the ID is the third element along the byte array or the fourth (depending on whether you count 0 or not)
[09:51] <ibanezmatt13> Ah, must be the fourth because the thirds are the same for both commands
[09:52] <fsphil> indexes always start from zero
[09:52] <fsphil> (not always, but if they don't it's wrong :)
[09:52] <Chetic> Upu: awesome, thanks!
[09:52] <Upu> nps
[09:52] <Upu> might be a few days on that my stock is low atm
[09:52] <Chetic> will this work above the cocom limit? http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51
[09:52] <Upu> will make some more up tomorrow
[09:53] <Upu> it works up to 50,000 meters in flight mode
[09:53] <Chetic> does it require both the altitude and velocity limit, or just one of either?
[09:53] <Upu> or
[09:53] <Upu> very well tested we've had them up to 45km
[09:53] <Upu> are you in the UK ?
[09:53] <Chetic> Sweden
[09:53] <Upu> oh so metric is ok :)
[09:54] <Chetic> haha you bet :)
[09:54] <Upu> I tend to say it in feet too if you're american :)
[09:54] <Chetic> how come flight mode bypasses the cocom limit thing?
[09:54] <BenBancroft> Im using serial for timing, so Im not sure what i can do to fix this
[09:54] <Upu> 164k feet
[09:54] <Upu> it doesn't bypass th COCOM limits
[09:54] <BenBancroft> Im already transmitting at 50 baud
[09:54] <Upu> some manufacturers applied the rules as altitude AND speed
[09:54] <Upu> others altitude OR speed
[09:54] <Upu> you still can't exceed 100m/s vertically
[09:55] <Upu> don't know the horizontal but its about 240mph I think
[09:55] <Chetic> you said this follows the OR-rule, so it won't work above the altitude then?
[09:55] <Upu> 50km is the max
[09:55] <Chetic> (is how I'm, most likely incorrectly, interpreting what you're saying)
[09:56] <Upu> 500m/s or 4G
[09:56] <Chetic> 18km is the cocom altitude limit from what I've gathered
[09:56] <Chetic> I want to go to ~30km
[09:56] <fsphil> the limit is both the altitude and speed
[09:56] <fsphil> but only both at the same time
[09:56] <Upu> Yes most modules SiRF4 etc stop at 18km
[09:57] <Chetic> yes, but many implement it so that only one has to be true, fsphil
[09:57] <Upu> the ublox in default mode stops at 12km
[09:57] <fsphil> yep, which is wrong
[09:57] <Chetic> yep
[09:57] <Upu> anyway if you're asking is a ublox suitable for use up to 30km then as long as its in flight mode very yes
[09:58] <Upu> there aren't that many that do work
[09:58] <Upu> the Venus one does
[09:58] <Upu> the Adafruit Ultimate tops out at 27km
[09:59] <Chetic> I believe that it will work, but I don't understand what flight mode does
[09:59] <fsphil> the old venus modules didn't, so be careful if buying of ebay or the like
[10:00] <Upu> there are various modes the GPS module can work in
[10:00] <fsphil> 2 minutes to launch and there are people on the rocket platform
[10:01] <Upu> See : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/u-blox6_ReceiverDescriptionProtocolSpec_%2528GPS.G6-SW-10018%2529.pdf
[10:01] <Upu> page 1
[10:01] <Upu> 2 Navigation Configuration Settings Description
[10:01] <Upu> Generally we use Airborne <1g
[10:02] <mfa298> fsphil: looks like they're working on ISH time
[10:02] <Upu> Used for applications with a higher dynamic range and vertical acceleration than a
[10:02] <Upu> passenger car. No 2D position fixes supported. MAX Altitude [m]: 50000, MAX Velocity
[10:02] <Upu> [m/s]: 100, MAX Vertical Velocity [m/s]: 100, Sanity check type: Altitude, Max Position
[10:02] <Upu> Deviation: Large
[10:02] <fsphil> ah they've reset the clock
[10:02] <fsphil> done a NASA
[10:02] <Upu> reminds me fsphil we need to put the modules in Stationary for ntp server
[10:02] <Upu> Used in timing applications (antenna must be stationary) or other stationary applications.
[10:02] <Upu> Velocity restricted to 0 m/s. Zero dynamics assumed. MAX Altitude [m]: 9000, MAX
[10:02] <Upu> Velocity [m/s]: 10, MAX Vertical Velocity [m/s]: 6, Sanity check type: Altitude and Velocity,
[10:02] <Upu> Max Position Deviation: Small
[10:03] <fsphil> hah, I didn't realise there was a stationary mode
[10:03] <Upu> yup
[10:03] <fsphil> my kernel compile has finished
[10:03] <Chetic> ok but cocom still applies above 18km? so in flight mode it effectively uses the AND-rule?
[10:04] <fsphil> yea, in flight mode unless you're going very very fast it'll work fine up to 50km
[10:04] <Upu> Basically Chetic it will work fine for balloon but if you try make a cruise missile out of it you won't get positional data
[10:04] <Chetic> good, that's all I was wondering
[10:05] <Chetic> haha damn it
[10:05] <BenBancroft> This is an example of how regular the random characters are: http://pastebin.com/99V9M7ZB
[10:05] <eroomde> timing issue?
[10:06] <BenBancroft> I guess but how do i fix?
[10:06] <eroomde> i've just been out and trying to catch up with CS launch
[10:06] <fsphil> better timing? :)
[10:06] <eroomde> anyone know why they're holding?
[10:06] <fsphil> how are you doing this BenBancroft?
[10:06] <BenBancroft> Im using serial for the timing
[10:06] <fsphil> a hardware serial port?
[10:07] <BenBancroft> yes
[10:07] <BenBancroft> On a RPi
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[10:07] <fsphil> hmm.. that should be alright
[10:07] <fsphil> what baud rate?
[10:07] <BenBancroft> at 50 baud, and 50 baud in dl-fldigi
[10:08] <fsphil> is the signal clean? any noise?
[10:08] <BenBancroft> program writes sentance and sleeps for 5 seconds
[10:08] <BenBancroft> as far as i can tell no noise
[10:10] <fsphil> I've got a similar setup here working fine
[10:10] <fsphil> I'm using two stop bits, only odd thing I can think off
[10:10] <BenBancroft> ok
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[10:10] <BenBancroft> no stop bits as far as i can tell
[10:10] <BenBancroft> would that be an idea to setup?
[10:10] <fsphil> well there is always at least one
[10:10] <fsphil> the default is one I think
[10:11] <fsphil> worth trying
[10:11] <BenBancroft> Im just doing serial using plain Posix API
[10:12] <mfa298> is the rpi happy with 50bd, I thought dave had used 300bd as there were issues at lower speeds (although I could be completly wrong)
[10:12] <fsphil> indeed. it's working here but it could be a per-device thing
[10:12] <fsphil> worth trying 300 baud
[10:13] <BenBancroft> OK will try that
[10:13] <fsphil> but definitly do use 2 stop bits for that
[10:13] <BenBancroft> How do you set that?
[10:13] <fsphil> not sure via C
[10:13] <fsphil> but it's easy in python
[10:13] <BenBancroft> ok
[10:18] <BenBancroft> Ok set two stop bits and 300 baud, and it seems to have fixed it, and is a lot faster ;)
[10:18] <ibanezmatt13> what is the Altitude above user datum ellipsoid.
[10:18] <ibanezmatt13> I'm trying to get altitude but from this sentence: $PUBX,00,hhmmss.ss,Latitude,N,Longitude,E,AltRef,NavStat,Hacc,Vacc,SOG,COG,Vvel,ageC,HDOP,VDOP,TDOP
[10:19] <eroomde> altitude above sea level probably
[10:19] <eroomde> there are lots of different ways of defining the size of the earth
[10:19] <ibanezmatt13> what does datum ellipsoid mean?
[10:19] <eroomde> the model you're using
[10:19] <eroomde> so GPS usually uses WGS84
[10:20] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, should be what I want then
[10:20] <eroomde> which defines the earth to be an ellipsoid with a certain radius at the equator and a certain radius at the poles
[10:20] <eroomde> and so on
[10:20] <eroomde> the earth being not quite a sphere but a squashed sphere, fatter at the equator
[10:20] <ibanezmatt13> I see, thanks
[10:24] Action: SpeedEvil realises with a Pi based payload - having the full-res SRTM data to detect landing wouldn't be insane.
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[10:27] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5844387 newly updated code which I have changed a lot! Is it ok from first looks?
[10:28] <staylo_> http://www.xcsoar.org/ has some GPLv2 code for landing detection taking elevation into account. Probably overcomplex for this task, I guess payloads don't often try to fly into wind ;)
[10:36] <ibanezmatt13> You probably won't believe this, but the code which I have myself just completely modified by translating certain parts from some C code into Python has worked first time! :)
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[10:37] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: the more important question is does it continue to work correctly when it's not sending the right data.
[10:37] <cm13g09> ibanezmatt13: congrats
[10:39] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, yep it does. :) It works if there is no lock, an invalid ACK response, an invalid PUBX sentence response, timeouts are set, I think it's ok, but I'll check everything anyhow
[10:39] <ibanezmatt13> thanks cm13g09 :)
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[10:39] <mfa298> The most important bit of testing is to check it does the right thing when you don't get what you expect.
[10:40] <craag> t-3 minutes for sapphire launch http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ADq5sOfq-lI
[10:40] <mfa298> they have some very long seconds over there
[10:40] <craag> hehe
[10:40] <mfa298> T-1 (but a very long second)
[10:41] <fsphil> that's minutes
[10:41] <craag> Yeah, need to get all 'go' before countdown continues I expect
[10:41] <mfa298> I was hopeing to report T-2 (Again) but they skipped 2m totally
[10:42] <mfa298> interesting, sounds like they're counting down but no onscreen
[10:42] <fsphil> yea
[10:42] <craag> yeah, someone forgot to click 'resume'
[10:42] <fsphil> hah, too late clock guy
[10:43] <craag> v straight!
[10:43] <fsphil> oh nice
[10:43] <craag> oops clock underflow
[10:43] <fsphil> lol
[10:43] <cm13g09> yeah lol
[10:43] <fsphil> clock guy is fired
[10:44] <OZ1SKY_Brian> -60ms now
[10:44] <mfa298> unsigned time rather than signed
[10:44] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 7km alt
[10:44] Action: craag checks spacenear just incase..
[10:44] <fsphil> hah, canon camera just ran out of batteries
[10:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 780m alt
[10:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no gps fix
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[10:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> data but no gps fix
[10:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gps fix again
[10:46] <bertrik> no launches from the UK today, right?
[10:46] <OZ1SKY_Brian> -50ms
[10:46] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 400m alt
[10:46] <OZ1SKY_Brian> range 2000m
[10:46] <number10> none today bertrik
[10:48] <OZ1SKY_Brian> so lets see if they can find it again
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[11:07] <craag> Have they got a chase tracker?
[11:08] <craag> aah I think they might have APRS.
[11:10] <fsphil> odd choice for a rocket
[11:10] <craag> not on the the rocket, but on the boats
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[11:11] <craag> I remember something on twitter about them putting APRS on the launch platform.
[11:12] <craag> WOuld have been nice to have a live telemetry view as well. (eg spacenear :P)
[11:13] <fsphil> yes, would have been better on the stream instead of the video of clouds
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[11:13] <fsphil> looking forward to seeing the onboard video
[11:13] <fsphil> assuming they had that -- they must have
[11:14] <craag> From Twitter: Blue RIB will continue to search for Sapphire for another 20 minutes. But it's probably hit the bottom
[11:14] <fsphil> eek
[11:14] <craag> That was 10 minutes ago
[11:15] <craag> Also: The nose contains a floatation device, but if it came down without the main chute, it's probably damaged.
[11:15] <craag> Hitting the water at 60m/s, not sure there's much that can survive that.
[11:16] <mfa298> would give someone a shock if they found it washed up on the beach.
[11:16] <fsphil> may as well have hit the ground
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[11:18] <fsphil> "Harmless scientific experiment"
[11:19] <mfa298> fsphil: I was thinking the same thing
[11:20] <mfa298> if found please phone N.Korea
[11:21] <Hix> is it possible to find 150uF 0805 caps? I'm struggling.
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[11:22] <craag> 2MBit telemetry downlink from the rocket, so they'll have a bit of flight data at least.
[11:23] <OZ1SKY_Brian> craag its AIS they have on the boats
[11:23] <craag> OZ1SKY_Brian: Ah yeah I forgot they'd have that.
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[11:24] <craag> My bad, I got mixed up, Csete was tracking himself by APRS while he was working on their launch barge.
[11:25] <ibanezmatt13> I've been doing this for a while now and I've made loads of progress, but I have just one issue. When I run the program in the terminal, in the datastring, it always prints a 'true' for flightmode being set. However, in dl-fldigi, it comes through as false. After checking the calling of the send function and the function itself, it reveals no errors. https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5844387 Why is this ha
[11:25] <ibanezmatt13> ppening to me?
[11:25] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> not sure 0805 but http://bit.ly/1cae7WI
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[11:27] <LeoBodnar> There are 100uF tantalum caps in 0805 size.
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[11:28] <WILLdude> Dafuq is going on here? Have I forgotten to do something? http://imgur.com/jkjBHRY
[11:29] <Hix> hmm just found them LeoBodnar £2.64 each. Ouch
[11:29] <craag> Twitter: Recovery has been officially called off. Sapphire will stay at the bottom of the Baltic Sea
[11:30] Action: x-f sighs.
[11:30] <mfa298> WILLdude: a broadcast signal might be too wide to see the edges with th FCD Pro
[11:30] <WILLdude> No but I can't actually move the frequency out of there.
[11:31] <WILLdude> I want to look at 50mhz.
[11:31] <WILLdude> Ish
[11:31] <mfa298> you should be able to change by altering the frequency values
[11:33] <WILLdude> Errgh]
[11:34] <fsphil> the FCDP can't do 50mhz
[11:34] <mfa298> I'm assuming you have clicked the play button at the top
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[11:35] <WILLdude> It's refusing to go anywhere above 96khz.
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[11:35] <fsphil> at least it used to be sold as 64-1700MHz, it might work outside that
[11:35] <fsphil> that's the sample rate
[11:35] <griffonbot> Received email: Jens Pirnay "[UKHAS] Re: Launch announcement PYSY-5"
[11:36] <fsphil> it's fixed at 96khz
[11:37] <WILLdude> Wait, I've got to 434mhz,(don't need to be on that, just testing) and it is all like that was before.
[11:37] <ibanezmatt13> my program has turned into a disaster https://join.me/396-551-157
[11:38] <ibanezmatt13> ready to watch the program run?
[11:38] <WILLdude> One sec
[11:38] <WILLdude> It's like this http://imgur.com/7m9J5Mx
[11:39] <WILLdude> You're using x-chat. He
[11:39] <WILLdude> *heh
[11:39] <ibanezmatt13> what the hec
[11:39] <ibanezmatt13> is wrong with my program
[11:40] <WILLdude> I can see me.
[11:40] <WILLdude> On x chat.
[11:40] <WILLdude> :)
[11:40] <cm13g09> ibanezmatt13: I just had one of those moments - thankfully mine turned out to be a trivial case of replacing a "set" with a "send"
[11:40] <cm13g09> I wish I could jump in and have a look
[11:40] <ibanezmatt13> you can
[11:40] <cm13g09> but I have a demo to do this afternoon!
[11:40] <ibanezmatt13> oh right
[11:41] <cm13g09> and mine's not ready for it :P
[11:41] <ibanezmatt13> if anybody would like to assist feel free :) I've been at this for hours
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[11:42] <Hix> does the value of input and output decoupling caps have such an effect on an LDO?
[11:42] Action: cm13g09 's head hits desk!
[11:44] <ibanezmatt13> Sorry can't help you. Never give control to people. :)
[11:45] <ibanezmatt13> Well I knew it was you so I thought it'd be ok
[11:45] <WILLdude> Fair enough.
[11:46] <WILLdude> Are you using the ublox proprietary method?
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[11:48] <ibanezmatt13_> Had internet failure
[11:48] <ibanezmatt13_> Who wants control?
[11:48] <WILLdude> Hehe
[11:48] <WILLdude> I really need to grow up.
[11:48] <ibanezmatt13_> Haha, it's a cool thing though :)
[11:49] <WILLdude> But you can trust me, the university graduate.
[11:49] <WILLdude> Awh.
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[11:49] <ibanezmatt13_> ooh I quit
[11:49] <WILLdude> You can ghost your other nick.
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[11:49] <ibanezmatt13_> Yeah I know
[11:49] <ibanezmatt13_> It's ok
[11:49] <WILLdude> Which basically kicks it if you know the pass.
[11:49] <ibanezmatt13_> aye
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[11:51] <WILLdude> Anyway, why is this happening?
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[11:51] Nick change: nayr_ -> nayr
[11:51] <mfa298> WILLdude: after talking antennas the other day, here's a diagram for making a basic 6m dipole https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14636926/6m%20dipole.jpg
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[11:51] <ibanezmatt13> look https://join.me/203-188-173
[11:52] <ibanezmatt13> it's working
[11:52] <ibanezmatt13> Only issue is, I can't trust it :)
[11:53] <WILLdude> You can trust me, the university graduate.
[11:53] <ibanezmatt13> now now WILLdude
[11:53] <WILLdude> heh
[11:54] <ibanezmatt13> So yes, it's outputing true now. Whether it is actually true I don't know but hey.
[11:54] <WILLdude> Right. I need an FTDI board but I can't remember why.
[11:54] <WILLdude> Ah yes, the UBLOX.
[11:55] <WILLdude> But what was it for with the ublox? Urgh.
[11:56] <WILLdude> Upu: Remind me what was I going to get an FTDI board to do?
[11:57] <ibanezmatt13> Must be working because I got a false in the middle of some trues! :)
[11:57] <ibanezmatt13> yay
[12:01] <iain_G4SGX> Anyone know of a good level converter circuit for 3.3V to RS232 ? (Read only, non inverting) Some sorta MAX chip i presume?
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[12:02] <Hix> realising that I should have placed a through hole electrolytic on the board instead of an 0805 has proved costly
[12:03] <mfa298> something like max3232 or is it max2323
[12:03] <fsphil> does it definitly need to be RS232?
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[12:04] <iain_G4SGX> So i can monitor traffic on the pc rs232 port
[12:04] <fsphil> ah
[12:04] <fsphil> was thinking it would be simpler to get a usb adaptor
[12:04] <Hix> iain_G4SGX, Maxim are your people for tha
[12:04] <mfa298> read only I wonder if you could do it with op-amp and/or resistor divider
[12:04] <Hix> t
[12:05] <fsphil> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9873
[12:06] <fsphil> something like that
[12:09] <Hix> didnt Upu have some logic level converter breakout boards for the ublox. that could be used no?
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[12:11] <fsphil> those are for 3.3v <> 5v, not rs232
[12:11] <iain_G4SGX> Hmm,bit over the top for what I need, will check out the MAX chips.
[12:12] <mfa298> max3232 is the 2way version of what you probably want
[12:13] <BenBancroft> Does anyone have an example of CRC-16 done in C for a Raspberry Pi?
[12:13] <fsphil> it'll be the same code as for the avr
[12:13] <fsphil> oh wait
[12:13] <fsphil> that's in a library :)
[12:13] <ibanezmatt13> I've got one
[12:13] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5750785
[12:14] <ibanezmatt13> crc16f = crcmod.predefined.mkCrcFun('crc-ccitt-false') # function for CRC-CCITT checksum
[12:14] <BenBancroft> Thanks will check that out
[12:14] <ibanezmatt13> That's setting a variable crc16f to the function
[12:14] <fsphil> http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__util__crc.html
[12:14] <BenBancroft> hopefully save me some time
[12:14] <ibanezmatt13> csum = str(hex(crc16f(string))).upper()[2:] # running the CRC-CCITT checksum
[12:14] <ibanezmatt13> running it
[12:14] <ibanezmatt13> csum = csum.zfill(4) # creating the checksum data
[12:15] <daveake> C <> Python
[12:15] <fsphil> there is C code in that link BenBancroft
[12:15] <ibanezmatt13> then just add it to your datastring: datastring = str("$$" + string + "*" + csum + "\n")
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[12:15] <daveake> sorry C != Python :-)
[12:15] <ibanezmatt13> oh
[12:15] <fsphil> that was almost BASIC daveake :)
[12:15] <ibanezmatt13> sorry, assumed you meant python because you said Pi
[12:15] <daveake> <BenBancroft> Does anyone have an example of CRC-16 done in C for a Raspberry Pi?
[12:15] <BenBancroft> I could disassemble the library ;p
[12:15] <daveake> fsphil Yes, scary eh?
[12:15] <ibanezmatt13> in that case, of course I don't :)
[12:16] <BenBancroft> Thats what I did for my spi implementation
[12:16] <fsphil> you're after the crc_xmodem_update function
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[12:18] <WILLdude> Anyone have aclue why this is happening?
[12:18] <WILLdude> http://imgur.com/7m9J5Mx
[12:18] <daveake> What were you expecting?
[12:19] <ikarus> daveake: "for a raspberry pi" is a bit silly there
[12:19] <ikarus> first decide on what CRC polynomial you need
[12:19] <Hix> contrast slider in SDR# WILLdude
[12:19] <daveake> ikarus, Not my request
[12:20] <ikarus> oh, I misread that
[12:20] <WILLdude> Ah thanks.
[12:20] <daveake> I was just pointing out that C was asked for and Pyhton given
[12:20] <ibanezmatt13> sorry :(
[12:23] <Hix> theres nothing to stop me soldering the leads on an electrolytic onto the pads for an SMD cap on the board is there? I can hot glue it for security
[12:23] <LeoBodnar> What is python? Is it low level language?
[12:24] <iain_G4SGX> While were on the code tip, anyone got any examples of Ublox parsing with assembler? Am tempted to move to C as its all string manipulation.
[12:24] <LeoBodnar> What mcu iain_G4SGX ?
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> Hix: nope
[12:24] <iain_G4SGX> PIC 18F but anything will do for ideas
[12:24] <Hix> LeoBodnar, http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/
[12:27] <iain_G4SGX> Got the NTX2 working via interrupts, pretty simples, now perusing the Ublox software manual. Not exactly bed time reading!
[12:27] <LeoBodnar> I have tried a language beginning with p but it needs a gui to run it and crashes pathetically on OS X
[12:28] <iain_G4SGX> pascal? lol
[12:31] <iain_G4SGX> LeoBodnar: I saw your new board, nice work.. Alas the PIC i've chosen needs at least 2V.
[12:31] <fsphil> moving to C for string manipulation is an odd choice :)
[12:33] <iain_G4SGX> Damn site simpler than with assembler in terms of programming and time spent though not in program space
[12:34] <LeoBodnar> I think it was python. Yes, it was. Never again
[12:34] <LeoBodnar> I went back to "A"
[12:34] <LeoBodnar> Well, I have a step-up to 2.2V because this is what needed for my PIC as well.
[12:35] <WILLdude> LeoBodnar: It needeth no gui.
[12:36] <LeoBodnar> I don't like when something becomes a fab and everybody is jumping on it like Arduino, Raspberry Pi or python. I am a sort of contrarian and refusnik. If it's popular, it's not for me
[12:37] <LeoBodnar> And it helps if GUI does not crash
[12:37] <iain_G4SGX> LeoBodnar: Aha.. cool. What did you use to do that? Some sort of switch mode module or a diode voltage multiplier?
[12:38] <LeoBodnar> iain_G4SGX: I have used LTC3526 but purely for package size. Modern step-up converters are wonderful!
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[12:39] <LeoBodnar> They run at 1-2MHz switching freq so only need 0805 or 1206 sized inductors. The efficiency is typically 80-90%. Amazing.
[12:41] <LeoBodnar> iain_G4SGX: Do you parse NEMA or UBX protocol?
[12:42] <LeoBodnar> *NMEA
[12:42] <iain_G4SGX> Only just looking at the data sheet. probably NMEA as I THINK I only need UBX for setting flight mode? Only got to first few pages so far
[12:44] <LeoBodnar> The benefit of UBX is it has fixed byte structure as opposed to NMEA. So if you need a variable you can just jump in and get it from response packet.
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[12:45] <LeoBodnar> It really pays to switch to UBX and poll messages rather than parse them when you are served. I have started writing a NMEA string parser but gave up and did it UBX way.
[12:45] <ibanezmatt13> iain_G4SGX, You probably won't have this issue, but I have just tried using UBX to set flight mode an NMEA for my telemetry. The automatic sending of NMEA from the GPS occasionally conflicted with the ACK from the UBX for flightmode. So, I went by Craag's method of disabling all NMEA sentences and just calling a PUBX GPS string when I wanted it to respond. That way there was no risk of conflict
[12:46] <ibanezmatt13> Works great now
[12:46] <ibanezmatt13> https://www.thecraag.com/MAX6_GPS_Polling
[12:46] <ibanezmatt13> and his code https://github.com/thecraag/CRAAG1/blob/master/CRAAG1.ino
[12:47] <ibanezmatt13> as LeoBodnar says, it's a lot more reliable to do it that way
[12:48] <iain_G4SGX> ok tnx, good info..
[12:48] <craag> :)
[12:48] <WILLdude> https://www.thecraag.com/MAX6_GPS_Polling
[12:48] <WILLdude> Sorry
[12:48] <ibanezmatt13> nps
[12:49] Action: craag checks there aren't any mistakes in there... forgot that page existed.
[12:49] <ibanezmatt13> I translated your code into Python (well, some of it) and it worked perfectly :)
[12:49] <WILLdude> With FTDI boards, would I use the hardware serial for the UBX and the software serial for uploading and debugging code?
[12:50] <craag> Ah syntax highlighting is broken
[12:50] <ibanezmatt13> craag, one thing, field 18 is satellites yes?
[12:50] <ibanezmatt13> Well, I was getting lat and lon readings when field 18 read 0
[12:50] Action: mfa298 assumes any mistakes in craags code are deliberate to catch out the people that just copy and paste.
[12:51] Action: ibanezmatt13 is very happy that he did it without copying and pasting :)
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[12:52] <Hix> so void gps_get_position() will poll the gps for data as and when it needs it. as opposed to NMEA spitting it out every second. Correct?
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[12:53] <ibanezmatt13> I just shoved that PUBX command in my code and then read the response immediately, I didn't have a function. But I'm sure that's what it does
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[12:53] <Hix> from looking into craag's code I believe I can finally rid myself of the awful TinyGPS
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[12:56] <craag> I've fixed the github link and the syntax highlighting.
[12:57] <craag> Can't really tell you much more about it though, I last worked on that code over a year ago.
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[12:59] <LeoBodnar> Hey craag, have you ever got that CRAAG1 + 808 Camera back from up the tree?
[13:00] <LeoBodnar> I am considering getting one of these keyfob cameras.
[13:00] <iain_G4SGX> Thing about those 808's is there are SO many variants, all very different in performance etc.
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[13:01] <craag> LeoBodnar: Not yet, haven't found the time to head up there.
[13:02] <LeoBodnar> I think placing a small camera into payload somehow makes it end up in a tree or a pond :)
[13:02] <craag> I don't think it's going to fall down by itself, so it'll be a case of contacting the estate and seeing if they'll help me out. (While hoping they don't shout at me for repeated trespassing!)
[13:03] <craag> LeoBodnar: Of course it does, every other flight has been so easy to recover!
[13:03] <eroomde> trees were never such a problem 5 years ago
[13:03] <eroomde> i don;t know what's happened
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[13:03] <eroomde> i guess maybe it was that 99% of launches back then were east anglia
[13:03] <eroomde> which is less tree-ey
[13:03] <eroomde> that's the only epxlanation i can think of anyway
[13:04] <craag> eroomde: Were your payloads heavier on average back then?
[13:05] <eroomde> yes there is that too
[13:05] <eroomde> but i don;t really remember trees being a thing
[13:05] <eroomde> was always fields
[13:05] <craag> Maybe I need to move :P
[13:06] <craag> Found somewhere in east anglia, and on a hill, combination might be difficult though!
[13:06] <eroomde> you often couldn;t see them because they'd be at ground level ina field of 1m high crop
[13:06] <craag> *Find somewhere
[13:06] <eroomde> but that's why lurid parachutes were good
[13:08] <iain_G4SGX> I'm in Norfolk and although very agricultural, there is very little 'wild' land here, its all private cultivated land.
[13:08] <eroomde> nice for recovery
[13:08] <iain_G4SGX> Hard to get of the beaten track as it were
[13:08] <eroomde> you can always park fairly close
[13:09] <eroomde> i remember launch from cambridge at 4am one morning, and chasing in real time (was doing about 60km/h in the wind) and not really noticing where i was driving in the grad scheme of things, we just had the 5 of us in the car, 3 on laptops, two radios, 'left!, right! next left!'
[13:09] <eroomde> we recovered it at about 8.30am
[13:09] <iain_G4SGX> Remember, 'Get orf my laaand' is a norfolk expression! :)
[13:09] <eroomde> then i got my phone out to see where we were
[13:09] <eroomde> f*cking north of manchester
[13:10] <eroomde> honestly had no idea we'd gone that far
[13:11] <eroomde> we did usually ask for landowners permission
[13:11] <eroomde> if it was anything other than 10 meters into a field from a roadside
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[13:15] <iain_G4SGX> He he, bet you get some funny looks. Strange people from outside Norfolk (therefore foreigners) talking about flying machines and electrickery..
[13:16] <eroomde> nearly got burnt once
[13:16] <iain_G4SGX> Thought you were witches?
[13:16] <eroomde> yep
[13:16] <iain_G4SGX> lol
[13:17] <iain_G4SGX> Pitchforks at dawn..
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[13:37] <WILLdude> Who did the Toshiba space chair?
[13:37] <SpeedEvil> Ford?
[13:38] <eroomde> jp aerospace
[13:38] <eroomde> a hab outfit in the US
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[13:42] <WILLdude> When using an FTDI board, is the code uploaded via it?
[13:42] <WILLdude> UpuWork: Around?
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[13:43] <eroomde> when using an ftdi board to do what?
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[14:05] <ibanezmatt13> In my rc.local file on my Pi (startup folder), I start a bash script running by the line "nohup /home/pi/MATT-1.sh &". Within this bash script is a loop which tries to start the python program running every 5 seconds and if it's already started, it just re loops. Now, you know I've been having issues with flight mode ACK. Well, in the rc.local folder, when I have nohup in there, it is nearly always false, with
[14:05] <ibanezmatt13> the odd true. Without the nohup, it's always true and not false. I can't work out why this is and which method I should trust.
[14:06] <ibanezmatt13> no nohup or nohup? That is the question...
[14:07] <Randomskk> whether tis better to run in the foreground and so receive hangup signals, or to ignore them, and in doing so, run forever?
[14:08] <Randomskk> there are probably better ways to accomplish your goals here
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[14:08] <ibanezmatt13> so I shouldn't use nohup. You reckon the persistent true values are reliable?
[14:09] <Randomskk> no, you probably should use nohup unless you do something better
[14:09] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, I can't really think of much more I can do...
[14:09] <Randomskk> do you understand what nohup does?
[14:09] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[14:10] <ibanezmatt13> it stops like interupts stopping the program. Like from the shell or something. Something like that anyway
[14:10] <Randomskk> yes
[14:10] <Randomskk> or it stops the shell exiting causing the script to stop
[14:10] <Randomskk> which may not be an issue for rc.local anyway, not sure
[14:11] <ibanezmatt13> But the fact that I get different results using and not using it worries me
[14:11] <Randomskk> yes that is a bit curious
[14:11] <Randomskk> what do you mean by true and false?
[14:11] <ibanezmatt13> Running it now without nohup gives persistent true values for flight mode, which I don't believe
[14:11] <ibanezmatt13> flightmode ACK
[14:11] <Randomskk> oh, as in the response from the ublox about its flight mode status?
[14:12] <Randomskk> that's curious
[14:12] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5844387
[14:12] <ibanezmatt13> it is indeed
[14:12] <Randomskk> might be true. flight mode should stay correct 4eva unless you power cycle
[14:12] <ibanezmatt13> I was trying to sort this lastnight and I couldn't.
[14:12] <ibanezmatt13> yeah it should, but I can't think of any other way to check it
[14:13] <ibanezmatt13> Just before I read the response, I set the variable to False, meaning that surely it must be doing something right..
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[14:15] <ibanezmatt13> oh, I just realised something
[14:15] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk, look at the very bottom of my code https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5844387
[14:15] <ibanezmatt13> I think that might be the issue
[14:16] <ibanezmatt13> That while not loop
[14:16] <ibanezmatt13> perhaps
[14:16] <ibanezmatt13> couldn't I just get rid of that while not loop and have everything in the while loop? That could fix it?
[14:16] <Randomskk> perhaps. add more print statements so you can figure out what the program is doing exactly, and when
[14:17] <ibanezmatt13> yeah I will do
[14:18] <WILLdude> eroomde: So I can debug the UBX and not use ss for it.
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[14:23] <ibanezmatt13> well this is a bit of a disaster :)
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[14:31] <WILLdude> I'm confused, how are FTDI boards used with UBX modules?
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[14:36] <SamuelBancroft> Can the cord from the parachute to the payload box be any length? I'm sure somebody told me 'longer than 10 forebody diameters' but I'm afraid that doesn't make sense for me
[14:37] <daveake> Nor me. Personally I go for 10 metres, and then 5 metres from chute to balloon
[14:37] <WILLdude> I presume they mean 10x the diameter of the forebody.
[14:39] <SamuelBancroft> daveake: I have a habit of overthinking/complicating things so I'll go for your suggestion, thanks
[14:40] <WILLdude> Also, why is UBX proprietary system better than nmea?
[14:40] <daveake> Is it?
[14:41] <daveake> Depends. If for example you want your code to work with other makes of GPS then you need to handle NMEA
[14:42] <daveake> If you don't, it's simpler to get values from UBX messages than it is to parse NMEA
[14:42] <daveake> UBX also gives you access to things that aren't in NMEA. e.g. UBlox flight mode.
[14:43] <WILLdude> What's flight mode?
[14:44] <WILLdude> Oh wait I'll google it first.
[14:45] <daveake> Some gps receivers won't report high altitudes in normal (ped / car) modes
[14:48] <SamuelBancroft> Here's our box (WIP): http://i.imgur.com/fLf3bbx.jpg Is the best way to attach a connection to have two loops of cord around each side, with the four cords from these loops connected to the bottom of the parachute. Obviously the box will then be taped over.
[14:48] <eroomde> SamuelBancroft: if your payload is 1m wide, say, the it means the parachute mouth should be about 10m back
[14:48] <eroomde> 10 is conservative
[14:49] <eroomde> there is no 'best way'
[14:49] <eroomde> for the harness
[14:49] <eroomde> whatever works and is reasonably well made
[14:49] <SamuelBancroft> eroomde: Ok thanks - just wanted to be sure I don't screw anything up ;D
[14:50] <eroomde> no indeed. you could epoxy lines to the edge and run them up to a lightweight caribina or something gucci like that
[14:50] <eroomde> so you can just clip the payload the parachute's loop
[14:51] <eroomde> just do it in advance (as it seems you are) rather than one the day, which always leads to bodges
[14:51] <Randomskk> "always"
[14:51] <Randomskk> "bodges"
[14:51] <SamuelBancroft> The weather balloon was funded with a grant from the Royal Society - so I'm meticulously over-analysing everything to make sure it makes a good impression!
[14:51] <SamuelBancroft> thank you
[14:51] <eroomde> often leads to bodges
[14:52] <Randomskk> :P
[14:53] <WILLdude> How do I edit a page on the wiki?
[14:53] <WILLdude> Oh I need perms.
[14:53] <WILLdude> *permissions
[14:53] <WILLdude> Can I have permission?
[14:54] <Upu> whats your user name ?
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[14:54] <WILLdude> willdude123
[14:55] <WILLdude> Ah man. Investigating the possibility of a Foundation exam at the conference is just rubbing salt in the wound.
[14:55] <Upu> done
[14:55] <WILLdude> Thanks
[14:57] <WILLdude> Seriously though. I really really wish I could come.
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[14:58] <WILLdude> Damn, I can't login.
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[15:03] <Upu> reset your password
[15:03] <WILLdude> Ah thanks.
[15:03] <WILLdude> How are you planning on doing RSGB exams there? Won't that cost a lot?
[15:04] <WILLdude> You'd need to pay for an invigilator, right?
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[15:05] <ibanezmatt13> anybody want some interesting viewing?
[15:05] <ibanezmatt13> https://join.me/607-948-397
[15:05] <ibanezmatt13> print statments have revealed things
[15:06] <ibanezmatt13> please look
[15:06] <craag> WILLdude: There's an RSGB admin fee per exam. But I'm a registered instructor so I can do the rest.
[15:06] <WILLdude> Ah right.
[15:07] <WILLdude> I could use this to persuade my parents to let me go, as they said they'd let me do the exam.
[15:07] <craag> Have you looked into doing the exam locally?
[15:08] <WILLdude> À quelle heure serait l'examen se passer?
[15:08] <WILLdude> Yes.
[15:08] <craag> If you are struggling, I'll probably be running a course in October for new uni freshers at Southampton Uni.
[15:08] <WILLdude> I need an excuse to go to the conf.
[15:09] <craag> As long as we've got club members on the course as well, we don't charge any overhead, just the RSGB exam fee.
[15:10] <ibanezmatt13> so it's reading a byte, which turns out to be a "[" and it decides that that's what it was expecting after all. Which it wasn;'t
[15:10] <WILLdude> So the course is free? The nadars course is £15
[15:10] <WILLdude> And it's a weekend course. It doesn't say how long it is.
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[15:11] <mfa298> different places will do the course in differen ways depending on numbers, previous skills etc.
[15:11] <craag> WILLdude: We haven't charged anyone yet, but it's at our discretion. So basically as long it's not too much extra work for us we don't mind.
[15:11] <craag> 15 quid isn't bad though!
[15:11] <craag> I've heard of places charging 60+
[15:11] <WILLdude> I would probably be able to learn all the stuff I need without doing a course.
[15:12] <WILLdude> Plus, as I said I need an excuse to go to the conf.
[15:12] <WILLdude> PM as this is slightly off-topic?
[15:12] <craag> I've gotta go actually.
[15:12] <craag> Talk to you later!
[15:13] <WILLdude> Okay. Also, are there practical assessments involved in the exam?
[15:13] <mfa298> WILLdude: if you think you could manage without doing the course I think there are some sample papers you can look at to see how you do.
[15:14] <ibanezmatt13> SUCCESS!
[15:14] <ibanezmatt13> yay
[15:14] <mfa298> WILLdude: there's some practical stuff you've got to do, from memory it's around the ideas of using a radio and making some contacts
[15:15] <WILLdude> Ah right. I'll talk to Upu later.
[15:15] <Upu> you'd be better talking to craag :)
[15:15] <mfa298> craag: would be the best bet to talk to about the practical bits as he's a registered instructor
[15:15] <mfa298> the details should also be on the website.
[15:16] <mfa298> rsgb website
[15:16] <eroomde> you have to make a contact and tune a dipole don;t you? or something. that might have been intermediate. the place i got my license did them both at the same time.
[15:17] <eroomde> so i can;t remember which needed which
[15:17] <WILLdude> Heh
[15:17] <eroomde> i guess those two things might be more of an intermediate thing
[15:17] <mfa298> Tune an antenna and tune in a radio I think (doesn't have to be a dipole)
[15:17] <WILLdude> craag has left.
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[15:17] <mfa298> WILLdude: you should be able to find the information online
[15:18] <WILLdude> FOund the syllabus
[15:19] <WILLdude> Is the exam multiple choice only?
[15:19] <mfa298> it's multiguess
[15:19] <WILLdude> Because I can't write very well at all.
[15:22] <Upu> can you put a cross in a box ?
[15:24] <mfa298> WILLdude: there's a couple of sample papers here so you can see the sort of questions you need to answer http://rsgb.org/main/clubs-and-education/for-students/foundation/foundation-resources/
[15:26] <WILLdude> Upu: Just about :P
[15:28] <SamuelBancroft> I have a little UV sensor in my payload. Would mounting it externally break it in the extreme conditions?
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> Probably not.
[15:29] <SamuelBancroft> obviously the sunlight has to fall on the top of the box, but if it's behind a 2.5cm deep hole in the box then light wont reach it well if it's internal
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> Low pressure is basically harmless to almost all electronics.
[15:29] <SamuelBancroft> ok, thanks
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> And most stuff doesn't mind cold temperatures at least once.
[15:29] <qyx_> fuu, the 8th question, bulb and battery :))
[15:30] <SamuelBancroft> i considered using a fisheye lens but it seems to block uv significantly. However ground level uv is so minimal I can't test it well using sunlight
[15:30] <SamuelBancroft> anyway, tyvm :P
[15:32] <mfa298> qyx_: it's between 1&3 right :p
[15:33] <qyx_> of course
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[15:45] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[15:46] <SamuelBancroft> hi
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[16:10] <WILLdude> I've decided to broadcast me doing my hw on join.me. Just for the lolz, https://join.me/323-464-747
[16:14] <SamuelBancroft> urgh, French
[16:14] <SamuelBancroft> that brings back the nightmares
[16:18] <fsphil> un cauchemar sr
[16:18] <fsphil> surely
[16:19] <fsphil> I liked that class but I absolutly couldn't remember words for more than a few days
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[16:25] <WILLdude> Is there a badgeboard this year?
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[16:29] <WILLdude> What kind of USB cable would I need to buy with this? https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9716
[16:29] <SamuelBancroft> OK i've filled in a payload document form. Who do I speak to get it added on habhub?
[16:30] <WILLdude> Or would it be easier to get this? https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9718
[16:31] <WILLdude> Upu:^
[16:31] <SamuelBancroft> excellent, thanks
[16:37] <qyx_> WILLdude: they use the same chip, choose the one which looks better :>
[16:39] <WILLdude> I'll need a USB A to Mini-USB B cable.
[16:41] <WILLdude> Actually, I can't afford it ATM.
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[16:58] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> SamuelBancroft, Might be best to ask on #habhub normally someone around, or they pick it up later.
[16:59] <SamuelBancroft> thanks
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[17:09] <craag> WILLdude: I'm back.
[17:10] <WILLdude> Oh hi.
[17:11] <WILLdude> How do I convince my parents it's a good idea to let me go the conference?
[17:11] <WILLdude> They think because there's a pub trip, it's for adults.
[17:12] <Upu> n habhub?
[17:12] <Upu> [17:30] <WILLdude> Or would it be easier to get this? https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9718
[17:12] <Upu> meh
[17:15] <ibanezmatt13> Finally got it working! www.spacenear.us/tracker :
[17:15] <ibanezmatt13> :)
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[17:16] <craag> WILLdude: I can't answer that.
[17:17] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde, earlier when we were talking about that datum ellipsoid altitude thing, it turns out that this type of altitude reference is around 50m higher than my actual altitude. Is this ok for flight or must I have it in units above sea level?
[17:18] <WILLdude> The main obstacle is nobody in my family cares about HAB.
[17:19] <ibanezmatt13> neither does anybody in my family. Don't let it affect you
[17:19] <craag> Most of my family think it's crazy and a waste of money.
[17:20] <ibanezmatt13> same here, but it's what you want to do
[17:20] <WILLdude> ibanezmatt13: Who's taking you?
[17:20] <ibanezmatt13> irrelevant really
[17:20] <craag> Indeed, just don't get angry at them for it.
[17:20] <ibanezmatt13> exactly
[17:21] <ibanezmatt13> You've got to remember Will, even if I was 14, I would certainly not be allowed either. Things change as you get older, trust me
[17:25] <ibanezmatt13> Is it ok to use the datum ellipsoid altitude reference for my altitude? I would have prefered altitude above sea level, but with this PUBX sentence, it doesn't give it
[17:26] <eroomde> it's probably ok
[17:26] <eroomde> but how do you know what the error is?
[17:26] <ibanezmatt13> I don't think it's an error, I think it's just basing the altitude reference in a different way
[17:27] <eroomde> sure, but i mean how did you calculate that the value is 50m?
[17:27] <ibanezmatt13> well, it's not exaclt 50m. From using NMEA I used to get around 90m, now it returns around 140
[17:27] <eroomde> try it a few times
[17:27] <eroomde> in a few hours
[17:27] <eroomde> when you have a different set of sats overhead
[17:28] <ibanezmatt13> oh yes, didn't think of that. Somebody mentioned that a while back.
[17:28] <eroomde> you can get variations in accuracy and errors from the geometry of the sats above you
[17:28] <eroomde> and the ionosphere
[17:28] <ibanezmatt13> Sat position affects it, forgot about that, yeah thanks :)
[17:29] <eroomde> but yep, i wouldn't loose too much sleep over 50m
[17:29] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, just curious. It's fine :) Makes my balloon look higher anyway
[17:29] <eroomde> it could still be a different refernce frame though
[17:29] <eroomde> that's definitely foobared me before
[17:29] <ibanezmatt13> yeah I thought that too
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[17:29] <eroomde> when i was trying to make a blimp fly autonomously along the side of a mountain
[17:29] <eroomde> and it kept trying to fly into the mountain
[17:30] <ibanezmatt13> oh dear :)
[17:30] <eroomde> turns out it though the ground was about 50m lower than it actually was
[17:30] <craag> eroomde: Were you using anything special with the GPS on that?
[17:30] <ibanezmatt13> Before when my code seemed to be printing weird characters and thought it was right, turns out it was right and I needed to see the ASCII equivalent of the characters by doing ord(variable). So it was working, just my idocy :)
[17:31] <eroomde> craag: nope, just some off the shelf IMU with GPS
[17:32] <craag> I was reading about ublox PPP, but it doesn't say exactly how slow you need to go for it.
[17:32] <craag> Ah cool.
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[17:34] <eroomde> craag: not sure how they do that
[17:34] <eroomde> i could guess
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[17:36] <craag> Yeah I remember you saying you needed two receivers for carrier phase measurements.
[17:36] <eroomde> hmm, not nece3ssarily
[17:37] <craag> But they claim to be able to do it with one, over the period of a few minutes.
[17:37] <eroomde> yes, i think you could do it with one
[17:37] <eroomde> but you'd probably have to let it stand still for a bit
[17:37] <craag> Yep, it seems to suggest that.
[17:38] <SpeedEvil> I have wondered in the past about a phone OS vendor (specifically openmoko, but the idea extends) creating iono and other accurage geo models from stationary phones.
[17:38] <SpeedEvil> Accurate
[17:38] <craag> Forums suggest it works well when still for 6 minutes or more, then loses phase lock and goes back to normal deviation when you move it.
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[18:00] <Lunar_Lander> Geoff-G8DHE\M, do you have time for a short question?
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[18:11] <Upu> ping SamuelBancroft are you sorted ?
[18:15] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[18:16] <Upu> hi Lunar
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[18:16] <Lunar_Lander> wb Geoff-G8DHE\M
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[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> hi mclane
[18:44] <SamuelBancroft> upu: My brother is working on the code and he has it working on the map now. Do we need to get flight docs approved for friday launch? Sorry about message delay
[18:44] <Upu> no problems
[18:44] <Upu> yes you need to make a flight document , then note the flight doc number it gives you at the end
[18:44] <Upu> let us have this
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[18:44] <Upu> and also mail the mailing list announcing the flight
[18:45] o2o (~o@ left irc: Quit: thanks
[18:45] <SamuelBancroft> ok, sure
[18:45] <SamuelBancroft> don't know if I know about this mailing list
[18:46] <SamuelBancroft> where do I find it?
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[18:46] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:mailing_list
[18:46] <mclane> hi LL
[18:46] <SamuelBancroft> If it's inviting people to the launch unfortunately that's not possible as it's being launched from a school (on sports day)
[18:46] <Upu> no it just announces it to listeners
[18:46] <Upu> so you get some coverage
[18:46] <eroomde> it's inviting people to track it for you
[18:47] <eroomde> which i suspect you want
[18:47] <SamuelBancroft> ah, OK thanks
[18:47] <SamuelBancroft> yes, especially in hilly cumbria ;)
[18:47] <eroomde> yup!
[18:47] <Upu> Oh is that you ?
[18:47] <Upu> you need M0DTS :)
[18:47] <Upu> and don't forget to run the predictor before launch
[18:48] <SamuelBancroft> habhub.org/predict the night before, absolutely
[18:48] <SamuelBancroft> M0DTS? Sorry, my brother is managing the code
[18:48] <Upu> M0DTS is a receiver near Middlesbrough with a clear view into Cumbria
[18:49] <Upu> I'm close as well but you're in my blind spot with hills
[18:49] <SamuelBancroft> OK so we need to contact the owner of M0DTS?
[18:49] <Upu> just mail the list he's on it
[18:49] <Upu> M0DTS is his HAM Radio call sign
[18:49] <Upu> like mine is M0UPU
[18:50] <Upu> and Ed's is M0TEK
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[18:50] <LazyLeopard> ...and mine's M0LEP
[18:50] <SamuelBancroft> OK thanks ;P
[18:50] <Upu> I could go through everyones but it would get boring :)
[18:51] <LazyLeopard> ...but down south here, so Cumbria will be a little tricky.
[18:51] <SamuelBancroft> posting a new topic in this google group is messaging the mailing list?
[18:51] <LazyLeopard> ...and besides I'm sure a pretty large selection of callsigns appear on habhub somewhere or other.
[18:51] <Upu> yes you'll need to join it first
[18:52] <Upu> just mail ukhas+subscribe@googlegroups.com
[18:53] <SamuelBancroft> sorry for the lack of knowledge and thanks
[18:53] <Upu> not a problem
[18:53] <Upu> I suggest on your announcement
[18:53] <Upu> tell us what the call sign is
[18:53] <Upu> what the frequency is
[18:53] <Upu> what time you think you're going to launch
[18:53] <Upu> the balloon size and estimated burst altitude
[18:54] <Upu> and the ascent and decent rates
[18:54] <Upu> we can set the live predictor up
[18:54] <SamuelBancroft> sure, thanka
[18:54] <SamuelBancroft> thanks*
[18:54] <Upu> you have a NOTAM ?
[18:54] <SamuelBancroft> yup
[18:54] <Upu> super
[18:55] <SamuelBancroft> Messaging ukhas+subscribe@googlegroups.com is that an automatic robot or a real person that adds me to the list?
[18:55] <Upu> can't remember its moderated anyway
[18:55] <Upu> so someone has to permit the post
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[19:02] <SamuelBancroft> When you refer to 'mailing the list', is that posting a topic?
[19:02] <Upu> yes
[19:02] <SamuelBancroft> Ive posted my announcement, hope it's OK
[19:02] <SamuelBancroft> many thanks
[19:02] <Upu> once you have subscribed
[19:02] <Upu> just send a mail to
[19:03] <Upu> you got it :)
[19:03] <SamuelBancroft> send a mail to?
[19:03] <SamuelBancroft> OK :D
[19:03] <Upu> ----\/
[19:03] <griffonbot> Received email: Samuel Bancroft "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Zenith - Friday 28/06/13"
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> yay!
[19:04] <SamuelBancroft> Woohoo :P
[19:04] <Upu> can I make one suggestion ?
[19:04] <SamuelBancroft> sure
[19:04] <Upu> drop tha baud to 50
[19:04] <Upu> the
[19:04] <Upu> you're quite away from other stations
[19:04] <Upu> so decoding 300 may cause issues
[19:04] <SamuelBancroft> My brother tells me he had problems with 50 baud as we're using a raspberry pi
[19:05] <Upu> oh ofc
[19:05] <Upu> "because of pi"
[19:05] <Upu> no problems
[19:05] <SamuelBancroft> if you're sure :P
[19:05] <Upu> you have no choice :)
[19:05] <SamuelBancroft> hm...
[19:05] <eroomde> why use a pi?
[19:06] <eroomde> it's an irrational choice
[19:06] <eroomde> and now i will see myself out
[19:06] <SamuelBancroft> ;'(
[19:06] <Upu> lol
[19:06] <SamuelBancroft> we're only students, and it's out first flight
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> oh please don't cry
[19:06] <Upu> its ok SamuelBancroft
[19:06] <SamuelBancroft> we were awarded a grant from the Royal Society
[19:06] <eroomde> no, it was a terrible joke
[19:06] <SamuelBancroft> So I hope it works ;(
[19:07] <eroomde> pi... irrational... transcendental... etc
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, we got a guy called Dave and he is awesome at Raspberry Pi
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:07] <SamuelBancroft> Because if it does it's great for the school and will inspire many people from the lower years, which is what one of our aims is
[19:07] <Upu> absolutely SamuelBancroft
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> SamuelBancroft, i.e. that they make sub-payloads?
[19:07] <Upu> I'm doing a launch
[19:07] <Upu> with a school shortly
[19:07] <Upu> which reminds me
[19:07] <Upu> PM SamuelBancroft
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[19:23] <Chetic> Upu: what is the "2.54mm pitch header/ battery retainer installing" on the uBLOX breakout board?
[19:24] <Upu> hey Chetic
[19:25] <Upu> the header is some small pins that allow you to push it into prototyping board
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[19:26] <Chetic> ah! thanks
[19:26] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/image/cache/data/bo-m6alc-1-500x500.jpg
[19:26] <Upu> that has the header installed
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[19:44] <Chetic> when/where is a preamp necessary?
[19:46] <eroomde> pre-amp on its own, usually just if you have a longish length of coaxial cable (say) from your antenna to your receiver, which adds lots of loss
[19:46] <eroomde> a pre-amp pre-amplifies the signal at the antenna end before it gets sent down the coaxial cable to the receiver
[19:46] <eroomde> that way you can compensate for coaxial cable losses
[19:46] <Chetic> ah, and only on the receiver
[19:46] <eroomde> you frequently pair it with some kind of filter so you can amplify the bits you want to get rid of some of the crap you don't
[19:46] <eroomde> yep
[19:47] <Chetic> very good to know
[19:47] <eroomde> it's often used with the sdr dongles because on their own they're not that sensitive or selective
[19:47] <eroomde> compared to more conventional ham radio rigs which is what most people use
[19:48] <Chetic> ah hm, so I might need one
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[19:48] <eroomde> possibly yes, if you're using the common sdr dongles
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[19:49] <Chetic> a RTL2832 dongle yeah
[19:49] <eroomde> it'll help
[19:49] <Chetic> should I perform some kind of on-ground long-range test first?
[19:49] <Chetic> need to be as sure as possible
[19:50] <eroomde> it's difficult because you can;t get line of sight + LONG RANGE ON THE GROUND
[19:50] <eroomde> whoops
[19:50] <Chetic> whoa whoa calm down
[19:50] <Chetic> :P
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[19:50] <eroomde> try listening to someone else's balloon flight
[19:51] <Chetic> they can't be that common in Sweden
[19:51] <eroomde> ah right
[19:51] <eroomde> no probably not
[19:51] <eroomde> but some float over denmark
[19:51] <eroomde> where in sweden are you?
[19:51] <Chetic> Stockholm, kind of
[19:51] <eroomde> ...kind of
[19:51] <Chetic> well I'm mobile of course
[19:52] <Chetic> live west of stockholm and am moving in a month
[19:52] <Chetic> to there
[19:52] <eroomde> just interested as i lived in uppsala for a bit
[19:52] <Chetic> ah neat, me too
[19:52] <Chetic> studied comp sci
[19:52] <Chetic> what about you?
[19:52] <eroomde> studied something else :)
[19:53] <Chetic> heheh alright
[19:53] <eroomde> gf was a native
[19:53] <eroomde> well, she still is a native. but not my gf
[19:53] <Chetic> pff women
[19:54] <eroomde> i'm live in the uk
[19:54] <eroomde> I*
[19:54] <Chetic> I see
[19:54] <Chetic> how badly can my poor soldering skills affect the RF connection?
[19:54] <Upu> the rf connector is probably the easiest thing to solder :)
[19:54] <eroomde> well, as long as you don't go mad, 434mhz is a low enough frequency that there's not too much woo
[19:54] <Chetic> at all? how careful should I be with the RF stuff?
[19:55] <Chetic> I'm completely new to radio, as you might've noticed
[19:55] <Upu> "it will probably work"
[19:55] <Chetic> but it's very interesting stuff, and I like learning hands-on like this
[19:55] <eroomde> (tm)
[19:55] <Chetic> lol..
[19:55] <Chetic> I don't like all the probably-will-works adding up
[19:55] <eroomde> you should be ok making the antenna
[19:55] <Upu> most of my stuff is designed around this simple premise
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[19:56] <WILLdude> Double checked and I certainly can't go because nobody can be fucking assed to take me.
[19:56] <Chetic> so I guess I won't order a preamp..?
[19:56] <eroomde> they're a good idea for receiving
[19:57] <eroomde> if a hab does drift towards denmark, you could probably hear it in stockholm
[19:57] <Upu> language WILLdude
[19:57] <eroomde> people have got 700km from balloons before
[19:57] <Chetic> what would I listen for/at?
[19:58] <Chetic> RTTY? guess the baudrate? guess the frequency?
[19:58] <eroomde> it's all announced here and on the ukhas milaing list
[19:59] <Chetic> oh :)
[19:59] <eroomde> during flight there are lots of amateurs in the channel here, receiving with their eqipment
[19:59] <Chetic> awesome
[19:59] <Chetic> !
[19:59] <eroomde> and sharing the actual freq (it drifts a bit with temp)
[19:59] <eroomde> it's a sort of nerdy carnival (in ascii)
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> hello to sweden Chetic
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, do you have a moment for something interesting?
[20:03] <eroomde> always
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/6/v/f/5yvfoy-krbdu4-kmw0/CDAltitude.png
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> tried to plot the drag coefficient of my parachute against altitude
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[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> got the density from calculating it from pressure and temperature and the velocity from differentiating the altitude-time curve
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> and as you see it is not constant
[20:04] <eroomde> wow Lunar_Lander
[20:05] <eroomde> that is actually very interesting
[20:05] <eroomde> so the Cd appears to be increasing as you descent
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:06] <eroomde> hmm
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> and what I find is that Cd for a hollow half sphere is 1.33
[20:06] <eroomde> it should be a lot less than that
[20:06] <eroomde> for any chute
[20:06] <eroomde> about 0.8
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> and I was told by a professor who works on turbulence and so on that Cd > 2 is almost not existing
[20:06] <eroomde> it's also very noisy nearer the ground, interestingly
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[20:07] <eroomde> do you have the raw data available?
[20:07] <Chetic> Upu: I have to choose a state/region when registering. Just wanted to mention that that is not necessary in Sweden and the choice I'm given can be confused with a city I'm not in :p
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, yea
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> but one thing
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> the velocity curve was really like having spikes, and that is where the GPS hang
[20:08] <Upu> OpenCart Chetic :)
[20:08] <Chetic> heh gotcha ;)
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> and I omitted the lines on which the GPS error was not 0 and that smoothed the curve
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> well I am thinking where I can upload the CSV
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, can I mail it to you?
[20:09] <eroomde> pastebin?
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> ah thanks
[20:10] <Chetic> Upu: what's the difference between international signed and airsure for shipment?
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[20:11] <Upu> Airsure is tracked
[20:11] <Upu> International Signed isn't
[20:11] <Upu> I'm considering dropping International Signed for the 90p extra Airsure costs
[20:12] <Chetic> ah cool
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> OK http://paste.ubuntu.com/5793600/
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> shall I explain what I did?
[20:14] <eroomde> sure
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> OK I used SciDAVis to manipulate colums
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> I converted the air temperature to Kelvins
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> then used p*M/R*T to calculate density
[20:15] <eroomde> some of the time stamps are identical
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:15] <eroomde> for different packets...
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> that is where the GPS hang
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> and what I did was removing any line that had a GPS error not zero
[20:15] <eroomde> do you have a cleaner dataset?
[20:15] <eroomde> ah right
[20:15] <eroomde> yes
[20:15] <eroomde> that's the column after alt?
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:16] <eroomde> 2 after alt*
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:16] <eroomde> cool thanks
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> in line 33 for example that is 77
[20:16] <eroomde> yep
[20:16] <eroomde> ok
[20:16] <eroomde> do you have this cleanedup data before i do it myself?
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> and M=0.029 kg/mol and R=8.3145 J/(mol*K)
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> one sec
[20:16] <Chetic> yey no mo money in the bank
[20:17] <Upu> yay money in my bank :)
[20:17] <Upu> thx Chetic
[20:17] <Chetic> haha :)
[20:17] <Chetic> np
[20:17] <Upu> give me a few days I need to order some new enclosures in for the habamps
[20:17] <Upu> will do it tomorrow
[20:18] <Chetic> gotcha
[20:18] <Chetic> I'm still waiting for my dvbt dongle
[20:18] <Chetic> have to return the one I borrowed tomorrow
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5793631/
[20:23] <eroomde> thanks
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> you are welcome
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> in short, I got density from the procedure given above
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> plotted altitude vs. time and made the differential
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> which I adjusted, as each data line is 22 sec apart
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> and I wanted m/s
[20:24] forrestv (~forrestv@ left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> and then the two missing variables are payload mass and parachute area
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> A=0.3626 m²
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> and m=490.6 g
[20:25] <cuddykid> had a few tweets from astronauts today - including one on the ISS :)
[20:25] <eroomde> ok thanks
[20:25] <eroomde> i'm going to have a go at crunch it
[20:25] <eroomde> crunching it*
[20:25] <Upu> nice one cuddykid :)
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[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> thanks eroomde
[20:33] <WILLdude> Any UK places I can buy an FTDI board from?
[20:35] <eroomde> coolcomponents probably
[20:35] <eroomde> also you can get the chips built into cables
[20:35] <craag> cuddykid: Nice, get them to install dl-fldigi! :P
[20:36] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: have not forgotten you, just someone popped round
[20:36] <eroomde> i have a new laptop so i'm having to write a load of code from sratch
[20:36] <eroomde> nasa atmospheric model etc
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[20:38] <WILLdude> This do http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/serial-cable-ftdi-cable-p-356.html ?
[20:41] <cuddykid> craag: haha, now that would be cool if we had a decode from the ISS!
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, no problem
[20:41] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re :: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference 7th September 2013"
[20:41] <cuddykid> if anyone hasn't seen - this was the landing http://www.flickr.com/photos/acudworth/9120420420/in/photostream/
[20:42] <cuddykid> perfect compared to the tree landing a few weeks ago :)
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[20:47] <WILLdude> Can someone do a WILLdude: at me?
[20:49] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude,
[20:49] <WILLdude> Nice,
[20:49] <WILLdude> Facebook message sound is my terminal bell now.
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> hi chrisstubbs
[20:49] <chrisstubbs> evening
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[20:54] <S_Mark> evening
[20:54] <chrisstubbs> Hows it going?
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[20:55] <Upu> hey Mark
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[20:55] <S_Mark> Hey, yeah good thanks
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[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[20:57] <chrisstubbs> How is the PCB coming along S_Mark?
[20:57] <S_Mark> finished eagle I think!
[20:57] <S_Mark> Need to annotate it a bit more
[20:58] <chrisstubbs> nice one :)
[20:59] <S_Mark> You annotate and change labels in the schematic side?
[21:00] <Upu> right click the part on the board
[21:00] <Upu> select smash
[21:00] <Upu> then delete what you don't need
[21:00] <Upu> change the font to vector
[21:01] <Upu> size to 0.8mm min
[21:01] <Upu> and the ratio 10% min
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> proportional font doesn't work out on the final board, right?
[21:02] <Upu> not always
[21:02] <S_Mark> Cool thank you for this!
[21:02] <S_Mark> good idea to keep the default C1 C2 R2 etc?
[21:02] <chrisstubbs> Yeah keep them
[21:02] <Upu> you should keep those
[21:03] <Upu> but remove the values
[21:03] <Upu> as they are just clutter
[21:03] <eroomde> i HAAAAAATE component labels on silkscreen
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[21:04] <eroomde> unless it's an old fashioned bit of test equipment
[21:04] <eroomde> i just put on labels for whichever is pin 1 in a connector, names for connectors (eg SPI or RF), max input voltage, label LEDs etc
[21:04] <eroomde> basically label for end users rather than designers
[21:04] <Upu> they help when assembling
[21:05] <Upu> help me anyway
[21:05] <qyx_> ju dont have to remove them
[21:05] <eroomde> i just have a laptop and say 'show my R17'
[21:05] <eroomde> and it does
[21:05] <qyx_> always keep them for reference
[21:05] <qyx_> just hide their layers
[21:05] <eroomde> me*
[21:05] <qyx_> *you
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> do you all have Eagle 6.4 too?
[21:06] <qyx_> no
[21:06] <qyx_> still 5.xx
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[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[21:42] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: ping
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:43] <eroomde> can you remind me of your mass and parachute area please?
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[21:46] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: ^
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> sorry
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> OK m=0.4906 kg A=0.3626 m²
[21:48] <eroomde> ta
[21:51] <eroomde> hmm lunar
[21:51] <eroomde> i think you are right
[21:51] <eroomde> let me try and explort what i've done
[21:51] <fsphil> explort?
[21:52] <eroomde> export
[21:52] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: can you link me back to your graph?
[21:53] <fsphil> oh, I thought some weird mix of explain and export
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/6/v/f/5yvfoy-krbdu4-kmw0/CDAltitude.png
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[21:57] <eroomde> fsphil: where can i put up just some html?
[21:58] <eroomde> i've got a html file and a subfolder with piccys that it needs
[21:58] <eroomde> i don't actually have any kind of raw html hosting
[21:58] <eroomde> it occurs to me
[21:58] <fsphil> tiamat?
[21:58] <eroomde> that might be a bit abusive
[21:58] <eroomde> Upu: ?
[21:59] <Upu> go for it
[21:59] <eroomde> where should i put it?
[21:59] <eroomde> i am on kraken right now
[21:59] <Upu> temp or permanent ?
[21:59] <eroomde> temp
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> brb just getting water
[22:00] <Upu> checking
[22:00] <Upu> var/www/habitat
[22:00] <Upu> just make a subdir
[22:02] <eroomde> i have not the permissions
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> back
[22:02] <eroomde> can i mail you a zip?
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:03] <eroomde> as talking to upu
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[22:04] <Upu> sure
[22:04] <Upu> is it on Kraken ?
[22:05] <eroomde> sent
[22:05] <eroomde> no just emailed it
[22:06] <Upu> k 1 min
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[22:08] <Upu> ava.upuaut.net/ed.com/
[22:09] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: http://ava.upuaut.net/ed.com/Untitled0.html
[22:09] <eroomde> thanks Upu
[22:09] <eroomde> so basically scroll to the bottom
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> one second
[22:09] <eroomde> there's still some curious noise in there (didn;t properly sanity check all the data)
[22:09] <eroomde> but basically yes, i get the same as you
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> cool, thanks for verifying
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:10] <eroomde> Cd seems to increase as you decrease
[22:10] <eroomde> in altitude
[22:10] <eroomde> i suspect it's transitioning into a stable glide as it descends
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> that might be
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> what was wondering us even in the car on flight day was the extremely slow descent
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[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> we calculated some 5.5 m/s before
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> and as you see we rather have 3 m/s near the ground
[22:11] <Willdude123> I think I'll ask my science teacher on tuesday instead as I need some time to think about what to say.
[22:11] <eroomde> that's impressively slow
[22:11] <eroomde> i think it must have been gliding a lot
[22:11] <Chrisstubbs> Would the parachute shape/fill change within density?
[22:11] <eroomde> what kind of parachute was it?
[22:11] <eroomde> not really
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> a spherachutes 42" one
[22:11] <eroomde> hmm
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> eight gores and a hole at the top
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> with two crossed cords to mount the load line
[22:12] <eroomde> i can only guess that it was gliding
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[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:13] <eroomde> that is very very very hacky code written off the top of my head (except the altitude model) but note i used a kalman filter to get velocities from positions
[22:14] <eroomde> it's in theory the better way to do it
[22:14] <eroomde> it's probably not much better with my wild stabs at noise parameters
[22:14] <eroomde> but you can play with it if you want
[22:14] <Willdude123> Where's the ofcom document that describes license free operation on 70cm?
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[22:15] Nick change: [1]Geoff-G8DHE -> Geoff-G8DHE
[22:15] <mfa298> Willdude123: you're probably after IR2030
[22:15] <Willdude123> Just trying to politely tell a ham radio operator why it's not illegal.
[22:16] <Upu> just tell him its the 10mW ISM
[22:16] <Upu> to which he is a secondary user
[22:16] <GadgetDroid> Evening all
[22:16] <mfa298> if it's someone on irc and he's still confused point him here.
[22:16] <Upu> evening
[22:16] <GadgetDroid> Upu, you got the order ?
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, thanks
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> I am just looking at the altitude curve again
[22:18] <Upu> I did and instructions noted
[22:18] <Upu> I'll sort it all out tomorrow cheers
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> and wondering if it really is an exponential on the descent
[22:18] <Upu> right I'm off now night all
[22:18] <Chrisstubbs> Night upu
[22:19] <eroomde> i'm off too
[22:19] <eroomde> g'night
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> night and thanks again
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, and SciDAVis can't fit an exponential to my altitude curve
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> that is interesting
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> thanks again! :)
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[22:22] <jdtanner> Evening all
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[22:22] <jdtanner> Have any of you ever had a problem with using the SD card library?
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> hey jdtanner
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> yes I had a very strange observation
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> sometimes that code simply stops working
[22:23] <jdtanner> For some strange reason my tracker code works fine without, but then completely stands still when I include SD.h
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> then copying the code from the library example makes it work again
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> despite that is exactly the same that it is saying
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> just SD.h breaks it?
[22:23] <jdtanner> Hmm. My code just ceases to work even after just having the include line...yep
[22:25] <jdtanner> Yep, just tried it again...without include <SD.h> it works...with it doesn't :(
[22:25] <S_Mark> Hello jdtanner - I had ram issues when using the SD libraries
[22:26] <jdtanner> That might be it...I was thinking along the same line. What did you do?
[22:27] <S_Mark> I used this freeRAM bit of code from here to tell me if that was the problem
[22:27] <S_Mark> http://jeelabs.org/2011/05/22/atmega-memory-use/
[22:28] <Willdude123> Someone just said that any aerial with gain is directional. How does the x-59 have gain?
[22:29] <jdtanner> Hmmm...I think it will be RAM...bugger.
[22:30] <S_Mark> I had to experiment with different SD libraries to get one to work
[22:30] <S_Mark> In the end I used sdFAT
[22:30] <fsphil> Willdude123: colinears have a pattern like a pancake.. the higher gain the flatter it is
[22:31] <fsphil> so they pick up less from above or below
[22:31] <mfa298> I prefer donuts for my gain.
[22:31] <fsphil> mmmm
[22:31] <fsphil> yes but not flat donuts
[22:31] <Willdude123> So high gain is bad?
[22:31] <mfa298> depends what your after
[22:32] <fsphil> for normal terrestrial use it's good
[22:32] <jdtanner> Yep, that might be what I end up using as well... S_Mark do you have any example code?
[22:32] <fsphil> as it focuses the antenna on the horizon
[22:32] <mfa298> but for hab too high a gain makes it harder to hear balloons when they're high up and close to you
[22:32] <fsphil> though, if it's close enough to be above you you'll probably get a signal anyway - unless it's directly above you
[22:33] <Willdude123> The guy who emailed me said they can't have gain unless they're directional.
[22:33] <Willdude123> Oh.
[22:33] <Willdude123> They are, at the horizon.
[22:33] <Willdude123> Right?
[22:33] <fsphil> yep
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[22:34] <fsphil> gain always comes at a price
[22:34] <mfa298> a zero gain antenna would recieve from all directions (above, below, and to the sides) equally. A Vertical is good to the sides but not so good above and below.
[22:34] <mfa298> a zero gain (isotropic) antenna is pretty much impossible to make
[22:35] Action: SpeedEvil tries to comb the hair on his hairy ball.
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hairy_ball_theorem
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[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
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[22:44] <Willdude123> iain has the weirdest quit message ever.
[22:44] <mfa298> Willdude123: this might help you understand antennas and gain a bit more. When you get down to the patch antennas it's gain pattern is similar to what you might get from a yagi as well (they're both more directional)
[22:44] <fsphil> patch might be good for iss contacts
[22:44] <Willdude123> That's like saying, always have a huge stash of pills next to your bed.
[22:44] <Willdude123> Patch?
[22:45] <mfa298> it's a type of directional antenna
[22:45] <fsphil> though for 2m would be rather large
[22:45] <fsphil> http://psas.pdx.edu/news/2003-09-21/ag_steve_trackmaster.jpg
[22:45] <fsphil> oook
[22:45] <mfa298> there's a whole world of antennas out there you can get interested in
[22:46] <Willdude123> A w-50 is more convenient
[22:46] <fsphil> I do like my x-50
[22:46] <Willdude123> X-50 or W-50?
[22:46] <fsphil> same thing really
[22:46] <fsphil> different manufacturer
[22:46] <Willdude123> And how the hell am I going to mount it?
[22:46] <Willdude123> :-)
[22:46] <mfa298> fsphil: that looks like it could be good for sats,
[22:47] <fsphil> mine's on a 3 metre pole on the roof
[22:47] <mfa298> for a W50, X50 usually you'd mound it on a pole attached to the side of the house
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[22:54] <Willdude123> Can I just mount the x50 w50 to the house?
[22:56] <mfa298> you probably need a short pole. Ideally you want to get it above the roof level
[22:56] <craag> Basically on a tv antenna mast.
[22:57] <craag> A guy I know here recently got quoted 100 pounds for a contractor to come and put up the mast, install his antennas and run the coax to the loft.
[22:57] <craag> a w-50 and a couple of yagis
[23:04] <mfa298> as a temporary solution 2m of 34mm waste pipe and some gaffer tape works fairly well (as long as there isn't too much else in the way) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14636926/IMAG0081.jpg
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[00:00] --- Mon Jun 24 2013