highaltitude.log.20130622

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[02:58] <heathkid> anyone here in the usa? #usahab
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[07:59] <fsphil> morn n' stuff
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[08:01] <GW8RAK> morning
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[08:01] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning :)
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[08:05] <eroomde> good morning
[08:06] <PE2G> Goodmorning, receiving PYSY on 434.6581
[08:07] <number10> morning
[08:07] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde, My Dad tried to help me with setting and acknowledging flight mode last night... we made zero progress. However, we have designed our box and that should be contructed fully by the end of next week
[08:07] <ibanezmatt13> morning number10
[08:07] <PE2G> Dx 512 km: http://s12.postimg.org/df6uqo231/Screen931.jpg
[08:10] <eroomde> well that's progress at least
[08:10] <ibanezmatt13> for the box yeah :)
[08:11] <ibanezmatt13> I know the concept of what needs to be done: Set flight mode by sending the UBX command, read the response, but the thing is, I don't know where to stop reading the response and what's gonna be in the response, and what I need to look for in the response
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[08:16] <number10> ibanezmatt13: did you turn off the automatic sending of nmea - so that it only sends things you ask it for?
[08:16] <ibanezmatt13> no, I just kept looping until I recieved a GPGGA
[08:17] <number10> it makes things easier if you turn it off
[08:17] <number10> then all you get is the ack and no more data
[08:17] <ibanezmatt13> it's just, I'm not quite sure how exactly do do this.
[08:18] <number10> I think there is one command to send it - but I havent used this I turn each sentence off
[08:18] <ibanezmatt13> I send PUBX commands at the moment to disable all NMEA sentences except GPGGA
[08:19] <eroomde> might be easier to folow number10's suggestion. that way it won't speak unless spoken too
[08:19] <number10> this single command maybe on the wiki - I think project swift use it
[08:19] <eroomde> and you can see what you get back from a command and go through it with the datasheet
[08:19] <ibanezmatt13> I couldn't really make much sense of that datasheet last night. I'll have a look there
[08:20] <eroomde> don't punish yourself with it too much, but give a couple of hours of honest concentration on trying to get it to work, and do it often
[08:21] <eroomde> and your subconcious will usually take care of the rest
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13> I've got to go to a music competition soon, but when I get back I'll spend some time having a look and trying to above all understand it
[08:21] <eroomde> playing or watching?
[08:22] <ibanezmatt13> playing :)
[08:22] <ibanezmatt13> piano
[08:22] <eroomde> what are you playing?
[08:22] <eroomde> oh cool
[08:22] <eroomde> what kind of stuff?
[08:22] <ibanezmatt13> well, mainly classical to be honest
[08:22] <eroomde> (i am a pianist of the very poorest qiality but enjoy it a lot)
[08:22] <ibanezmatt13> do you know how the grading works with piano exams?
[08:22] <eroomde> yes
[08:22] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, good
[08:23] <ibanezmatt13> It's my first time performing in front of people with the piano (it's usually the guitar) and I'm doing a grade 7 piece! Not exactly looking forward to it
[08:23] <eroomde> but this isn't an exam?
[08:23] <fsphil> swift used ubx only, so probably not a great example
[08:23] <eroomde> ah cool
[08:23] <ibanezmatt13> no
[08:23] <eroomde> i hate exams
[08:23] <ibanezmatt13> as do I
[08:24] <eroomde> what are you playing?
[08:24] <number10> ibanezmatt13: try sending it this to turn the nmea off uint8_t setNMEAoff[] = {0xB5, 0x62, 0x06, 0x00, 0x14, 0x00, 0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0xD0, 0x08, 0x00, 0x00, 0x80, 0x25, 0x00, 0x00, 0x07, 0x00, 0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0xA0, 0xA9};
[08:24] <eroomde> music exams specifically, I mean
[08:24] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right
[08:24] <eroomde> they were the worst exams I've ever taken
[08:24] <number10> is from jcoxons code
[08:24] <fsphil> I quite like exams
[08:24] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks number10 I'll take a look
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13> I don't like having an old man sit behind me as I play, it's really offputting, and when you have to sing for him!
[08:25] <eroomde> yes that's both arbitrary and terrible
[08:25] <fsphil> playing music I like, singing .. nope!
[08:25] <eroomde> which piece are you performing today?
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13> It's called Kindersenen by Robert Shumann, I'm also playing Miniature in D minor
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13> By someone...
[08:26] <PE2G> Anyone from the PYSY team here?
[08:26] <ibanezmatt13> It doesn't look difficult, but you need to have a hell of a lot of control when you play it. Each finger plays a note at a different volume, that's the hard bit
[08:26] <fsphil> ooch
[08:26] <ibanezmatt13> aye
[08:26] <eroomde> yes i know it
[08:26] <ibanezmatt13> number10, I guess that's the same in Python, apart from the uint8 bit
[08:27] <fsphil> I can play happy birthday. that's about it :)
[08:27] <eroomde> there is a good horowitz performance of it on the tubes
[08:27] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah I've seen it, in Vienna?
[08:27] <eroomde> you've probably already seen it
[08:27] <eroomde> yep
[08:27] <ibanezmatt13> Not bad is it? :)
[08:27] <eroomde> like most of his stuff
[08:27] <eroomde> listening to his liszt consoloation 3 (same kinda deal) I had a bit of a revelation
[08:28] <eroomde> and it helped me play it a lot better
[08:28] <ibanezmatt13> I was tempted to play this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq4G3KRAuXc :)
[08:28] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS5LRRsNYZk
[08:28] <eroomde> same concert
[08:28] <eroomde> yes
[08:28] <eroomde> i've never felt up to beethoven
[08:29] <ibanezmatt13> it's pretty horendous. It's + grade 8
[08:29] <eroomde> i find more romantic stuff a bit easier
[08:29] <eroomde> temperamentally
[08:29] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah me too, you can sort of blag it a bit with the tempo
[08:29] <ibanezmatt13> Slow down here and there without getting penalised :) Rubato I think the technique is
[08:29] <eroomde> and sometimes if a rach prelude gets too much you just stick the pedal down and paper over the cracks
[08:30] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes,
[08:30] <ibanezmatt13> Ia'm just gonna go practice for a minute or to
[08:30] <eroomde> completely cheating and terrible. infact that's sort of why i don;t perform
[08:30] <eroomde> i'd rather play it right but badly
[08:30] <eroomde> than 'perform'
[08:31] <ibanezmatt13> Well, I suppose it's a good thing to do. I don't like performing either. But why not eh? :)
[08:31] <eroomde> yes it's a very good thing to do
[08:31] <eroomde> but i stopped at uni :)
[08:34] <ibanezmatt13> Right, I'd better go get sorted. See you later :)
[08:34] <eroomde> good luck
[08:34] <ibanezmatt13> thanks :
[08:34] <ibanezmatt13> :)
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[08:34] <eroomde> oh god i want a piano
[08:35] <fsphil> you can get really good electronic ones
[08:36] <eroomde> yes, a couple of people have said that
[08:36] <eroomde> i shall now beleive you and them
[08:36] <eroomde> on the basis that 3 is good
[08:37] <eroomde> any specific recommendations?
[08:38] <fsphil> I've heard good things about the Yamaha P95B
[08:39] <fsphil> has weighted keys, feels more like a real one
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[08:47] <eroomde> cool ta
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[08:55] <PE2G> PYSY is climbing through 38k. Not bad.
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[09:00] <mfa298> on the electric piano front I got an m-audio one a few years back which seems to be pretty decent - although I've ussed it nearly as much as I planned to.
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[09:02] <d0wnl0rd> Have a burst, any idea when the landing predicition will be available again?
[09:04] <fsphil> one sec
[09:05] <d0wnl0rd> Great, You are the best.
[09:07] <PE2G> Fast fading now, It is spinning
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[09:11] <LeoBodnar> Morning chaps!
[09:11] <fsphil> heading for Hersbruck
[09:11] <fsphil> mornin LeoBodnar
[09:11] <PE2G> Signal becoming stable again
[09:12] <fsphil> 39.2km peak, nice
[09:13] <PE2G> Yes, though I was hoping to see 40km...
[09:14] <PE2G> Never seen 40k
[09:14] <LeoBodnar> What are the balloon/payload details?
[09:14] <fsphil> there hasn't been a >=40km balloon in ages
[09:15] <LeoBodnar> Air density these days is not what it used to be when I was young!
[09:16] <LeoBodnar> I'll take me coat.
[09:16] <PE2G> LeoBodnar: No idea, there's nobody from the crew here AFAIK
[09:16] <PE2G> Losing it now.
[09:17] <LeoBodnar> No UK flights this weekend then?
[09:18] <PE2G> I believe not, due to unfavourable winds
[09:18] <d0wnl0rd> Hi Guys, Hwoyee 1600 with 280 g payload
[09:19] <d0wnl0rd> We are waiting for the balloon to land on our heads :-)
[09:19] <PE2G> d0wnl0rd: nice altitude you reached :-)
[09:19] <d0wnl0rd> And yes we were hoping for 40km as well
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[09:20] <LeoBodnar> Good job with 39K!
[09:20] <d0wnl0rd> Anyway our official personal best (last flight was probably above 40 km but no valid telemetry data)
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[09:23] <PE2G> d0wnl0rd: Good luck with the recovery, I'm off now. Bye!
[09:24] <d0wnl0rd> Thanks , might land on the highway ...
[09:24] <PE2G> I don't hope so. Bye.
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[09:26] <LeoBodnar> Beautiful woods you have there guys.
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[09:28] <LeoBodnar> Are you in the shopping centre? :)
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[09:33] Action: fsphil notes the electrical pylon
[09:35] <LeoBodnar> Blackout is coming
[09:36] <fsphil> gonna be close
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[09:41] <Upu> 39km
[09:41] <Upu> impressive
[09:42] <Upu> sorry I blipped the server just as he launched
[09:42] <Upu> essential upgrade
[09:42] <eroomde> not long ago that would have been a batshit mental altitude
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[09:42] <eroomde> look how far we've come in a couple of years
[09:42] <eroomde> about 3-4km
[09:42] <Upu> tbh recently few have gone over 40km
[09:43] <eroomde> it seems to be a summer thing
[09:43] <eroomde> and the balloon factory having a good day
[09:43] <Upu> that probably
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[09:47] <Upu> uh oh
[09:47] <Upu> power lines
[09:48] <Upu> hmm possibly not
[09:48] <Upu> ground level is 449 there
[09:48] <Upu> bloody close
[09:52] <LeoBodnar> Upu, do I need to do anything special if I want to test a payload with a server? I don't want to confuse anybody into thinking that it is going to launch
[09:52] <Upu> nah just avoid uploading when there is a live flight on
[09:52] <Upu> I think McClanes is down now
[09:53] <LeoBodnar> OK
[09:53] <LeoBodnar> Testing new tracker with DominoEX mode in.
[09:53] <Upu> record some in dl-fldigi and pop it somewhere
[09:54] <Upu> really interested in this
[09:54] <Upu> implemented error correction ?
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[09:54] <LeoBodnar> Nah, it works very well even without it! Down to -15dB S/N
[09:54] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/GPS-UHF-RevC-7.jpg http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/GPS-UHF-RevC-1.jpg http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/GPS-UHF-RevC-4.jpg http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/GPS-UHF-RevC-5.jpg
[09:55] <Upu> now your just showing off :)
[09:55] <Upu> that looks amazing
[09:55] <LeoBodnar> Lol. Working for common good.
[09:55] <Upu> Keystone ?
[09:56] <LeoBodnar> Yes, but they will have to go. 1.3g does not warrant steampunk look
[09:56] <Upu> lol
[09:56] <cuddykid> some clips of yesterdays flight bodged together - http://youtu.be/yjpa4HpgSdQ
[09:57] <LeoBodnar> I thought AAA holding clips! lol
[09:57] <Upu> whats the µC and the RF ?
[09:58] <LeoBodnar> PIC24FJ64GB002 because it has UB on it that I have dropped (temporarily) for this revision. RF is Si4460
[09:58] <LeoBodnar> USB
[09:58] <Upu> yeah very impressive when does it fly ?
[09:59] <LeoBodnar> Next weekend is F1 in Silverstone - it's a no-go zone from Friday around here due to crowds. We might launch from some other location next weekend if weather is good.
[10:02] <craag> A new record for lightest payload?
[10:03] <LeoBodnar> What's the current one?
[10:04] <Upu> mattbrejza's I guess
[10:04] <Upu> depends
[10:04] <Upu> lightest tracker
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[10:04] <Upu> or lighest actually launched successfully
[10:04] <craag> lightest launched successfully
[10:05] <d0wnl0rd> We just recovered PYSY5 directly underneath a big powerline, everything is fine, but a massive entanglement of parachute, cord and balloons remainders
[10:05] <Upu> nice d0wnl0rd :)
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[10:06] <LeoBodnar> Good job! Descent was about -10m/s, is it typical?
[10:06] <Upu> nope
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[10:08] <mclane> PYSY recovered just under a HV line ;-)
[10:09] <mclane> Balloon did not burst completely and was tangled around the parachute
[10:09] <mclane> so we had a rough landing
[10:09] <mclane> But payload not damaged
[10:10] <LazyLeopard> Seems to be not that unusual for the balloon to end up as a heavy lump of latex...
[10:10] <mclane> max height: 39392 m
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[10:13] <Ugi> Mornin' guys
[10:13] <Ugi> Pysy got pretty high!
[10:13] <LazyLeopard> What can be done to mitigate adverse effects of the balloon turning into a latex weight?
[10:14] <LeoBodnar> Forced cutdown?
[10:14] <LazyLeopard> Well, that just means the latex lump lands elsewhere without a chute.
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[10:15] <Ugi> If it's cut away then it should be rising pretty fast when it bursts, hopefully giving a clean burst
[10:16] <LazyLeopard> Not seen how the lines can tangle, myself, but I'm guessing chute and/or payload spinning might not be helping in the early stages of descent?
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[10:47] <gonzo__mob> anything flying today?
[10:47] <gonzo__mob> don't have enough internet to look on the web
[10:47] <mfa298> i don't think so
[10:48] <Spiruel> How accurate is the habhub tracker? If a flight is predicted to land 200m off the coast in the sea for example, would that you mean you'd postpone the launch?
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[10:49] <fsphil> I would yea
[10:49] <fsphil> it's accuracy depends on lots of things
[10:49] <fsphil> how accurate the wind data is (sometimes it isn't) and how accurate the parameters you give it
[10:49] <fsphil> predictions further ahead in time get less accurate
[10:50] <mfa298> it's about as accurate as the data you put in. And I suspect you'll struggle to get ascent/ descent rates exactly right.
[10:50] <fsphil> but if a prediction the night before was telling me there was a risk of an ocean landing, I probably wouldn't bother launching
[10:50] <Spiruel> ok, thanks
[10:52] Nick change: MoALTz_ -> MoALTz
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[10:57] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[10:58] <gonzo__mob> not supprising no flights in uk. windy as buggery here in mid wales
[10:59] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[10:59] <fsphil> getting rather windy here too in NI
[11:01] <mfa298> was about to say it doesn't seem to bad down here, but then the wind started blowing a bit
[11:03] <LazyLeopard> Blustery here. Damp, too.
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[11:04] <fsphil> rubbish predictions too. landing in the atlantic
[11:04] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm...
[11:04] <LazyLeopard> Not the usual direction?
[11:05] <fsphil> my flights normally go south east
[11:05] <fsphil> seems to reverse in the summer
[11:05] <LazyLeopard> Rght
[11:05] <fsphil> or that damp period between spring and autumn
[11:05] <LazyLeopard> Heh
[11:05] <fsphil> that's not fair actually, we had a good two weeks
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[11:09] <BenBancroft> For a NTX2, what would be the best aerial, and what length would I need it (was going to use a piece of coax)?
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[11:10] <fsphil> most flights use a quarter wave antenna on the payload
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[11:11] <fsphil> for 434mhz the main element should be about 16.4cm
[11:11] <fsphil> the other elements should be at least that
[11:11] <BenBancroft> Would half length be any better?
[11:12] <fsphil> you mean make it twice as long?
[11:12] <BenBancroft> yes
[11:12] <mfa298> if you're feeding a 1/2 wavelength at the end it's going to be a pretty high impedance.
[11:13] <fsphil> yea it's not as good. but I don't know the maths or theory enough to say why
[11:13] <BenBancroft> And coax is the best material?
[11:13] <fsphil> wouldn't say best, but it's pretty handy :)
[11:14] <mfa298> I think it's down to the current / voltage curves. I know for a half wave dipole it's high current, low voltage at the centre and high voltage/low current at the ends.
[11:14] <fsphil> I just strip 16.4cm of coax, leaving just the core. and solder the radials onto the remaining shield
[11:14] <BenBancroft> Is it OK to droop it out of the bottom of my payload?
[11:15] <Randomskk> yes but don't forget the radials
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[11:15] <fsphil> yep. though I'd suggest something to keep it straight
[11:15] <Randomskk> and don't let them droop
[11:15] <Randomskk> please don't let the radials droop
[11:15] <Randomskk> that was so upsetting
[11:15] <fsphil> the antennas own little personal faraday cage
[11:15] <LeoBodnar> High impedance should be good. GP in free air is about 25R.
[11:15] <LeoBodnar> 1/4 one
[11:16] <LeoBodnar> I am struggling to increase impedance of the UHF antenna and keep beam pointing downwards...
[11:16] <fsphil> the other option is a dipole, but I don't think it would offer any advantage
[11:16] <BenBancroft> In terms of keeping it straight, do I tie it to something more rigid?
[11:17] <fsphil> go to mcdonalds, borrow a straw :)
[11:17] <BenBancroft> and what about lining the base of my payload with tin foil?
[11:18] <fsphil> how would you connect it?
[11:18] <LeoBodnar> Actually you can make the payload 16.4 long and connect radials to the TX output and have no downward element - it is exactly the same in RF sense
[11:18] <mfa298> I think for the 1/2 wave as it's high impedance it's fed more by voltage than current. You could look at something like an end fed zepp but that might be more complex to make
[11:19] <LeoBodnar> 90 degrees radials GP has symmetrical radiation pattern in vertical plane
[11:19] <BenBancroft> I think Ill stick with 1/4 wavelength
[11:19] <fsphil> antennas are a dark magic
[11:19] <LeoBodnar> indeed!
[11:20] <mfa298> I think if you bend the radials away from the driven element you raise the impedance a bit - closer towards 50R
[11:20] <fsphil> yea
[11:21] <LeoBodnar> Yes, but radiation pattern will follow the radials for some time - i.e. upwards...
[11:21] <craag> Yeah I tend to use 4 radials bent upwards at ~45 degrees, and had good compliments on the signal.
[11:21] <LeoBodnar> And then starts coming back. Later becoming dipole
[11:22] <mfa298> If the payload box was large enough you could use tinfoil on the bottom connected to the rfgnd to provide the groundplane.
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[11:22] <LeoBodnar> I am thinking helix!
[11:22] Action: mfa298 must play more with exnec - It might be good to have some theortical plots of the various designs
[11:23] <LeoBodnar> http://www.q-par.com/products/helical-antennas/240-320-mhz-helical-antennas/images/2-helix-013.jpg?isImage=1
[11:23] <craag> End-fire helix?
[11:23] <craag> I was planning to build one for ground rx.
[11:23] <mfa298> I'd be interetsed to see how a halo / loop performs, but that won't be so good with most peoples vertical antennas
[11:23] <LeoBodnar> Has anybody used chip antennas for UHF? Might be just an easy escape.
[11:24] <anerDev> hi guys
[11:24] <LeoBodnar> Hi anerDev
[11:24] <craag> LeoBodnar: Yes, but they are a lot less efficient, drastically reduced signal strength.
[11:24] <WILLdude> Hello people.
[11:24] <anerDev> hello WILLdude
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[11:25] <LeoBodnar> What's their gain roughly? -2dB..-3dB ?
[11:26] <craag> Not sure, but why use one instead on a 1/4 wave?
[11:26] <craag> *of a
[11:26] <craag> It's proven, very simple to build, light, and properly omnidirectional.
[11:26] <LeoBodnar> Practicality?
[11:27] <LeoBodnar> (=laziness)
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[11:29] <WILLdude> I'm finding the dB scale incredibly confusing.
[11:29] <craag> LeoBodnar: Are you trying to reduce overall size, or weight?
[11:29] <mfa298> having seen how poor the signal has been when people have used lower quality antennas or lower power. I'm not sure it's worth the risk of using something you know will be a poor antenna
[11:29] <LeoBodnar> Size
[11:30] <craag> Ok, well you could go for a coil antenna like some have used recently.
[11:30] <craag> But you are trading signal strength, cuddykid flew one, and it was quite weak.
[11:31] <mfa298> WILLdude: in general dB is a way of indicating gains or loss in a way that's easy to use. Antennas will generally have a gain. Coax will have a loss (dependant on frequency and length).
[11:31] <daveake> WILLdude Adding and subtracting are easier than multiplying and dividing, right?
[11:31] <daveake> So actually it's easier :)
[11:31] <LeoBodnar> Coax has negative gain.
[11:32] <LeoBodnar> Like negative economy growth
[11:32] <mfa298> more gain in an antenna will mean it's more limited where it recieves from. For a vertical the pattern is like a donut, as the gain goes up the donut becomes more squashed - So it's better horizontally but worse for things at height.
[11:32] <fsphil> I've wondered if a higher gain antenna doesn't make a signal stronger, just makes other signals weaker
[11:33] <eroomde> yes
[11:33] <daveake> both
[11:33] <eroomde> it's not actually an amplifier
[11:33] <LeoBodnar> There is no signal if there is no antenna
[11:33] <eroomde> the total amount of power you can send remains the same
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[11:33] <craag> It reduces the amount of RF noise from/to other directions
[11:33] <eroomde> but you just focus it more
[11:33] <fsphil> for reception I mean
[11:33] <eroomde> it works completely reciprocally
[11:34] <mfa298> depends where the other signals are. Yagis work both by increasign the gain in the direction your pointing but also descreasing the gain of other noise sources in other directions.
[11:34] <craag> We should really call it 'focus' rather than 'gain'
[11:34] <eroomde> radiation pattern is good
[11:35] <eroomde> WILLdude: is it that the scale isn;t linear that's cpnfusing?
[11:35] <eroomde> confusing*
[11:35] <LeoBodnar> Yes, radiation pattern for receiving antenna sounds impressive
[11:35] <LeoBodnar> Appropriate if you leak receiver LO
[11:36] Action: SpeedEvil ponders trying to come up with new lyrics to Billy Braggs 'Sexuality' - for 'Reciprocality'
[11:36] Action: SpeedEvil decides that would be silly.
[11:36] <LeoBodnar> Photography has stops - same thing
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> It's not quite.
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> If you have a narrower field of view in a lens - that does not inherently make the image brighter.
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[11:37] <LeoBodnar> I mean log scale
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[11:38] <eroomde> there was a girl named dB // she expecting reciprocality // but she come across the patriarchy // which didn;t recognise her isotropery
[11:39] <fsphil> this gains nothing
[11:39] <eroomde> dB she looked at me // to assert my linearity // but her good logs grew on me // and
[11:39] <eroomde> i give up
[11:39] <daveake> That should get to number 0 in the log tables
[11:40] <eroomde> billy brag riffing on antennas is too difficult to do live
[11:41] <WILLdude> eroomde: Yeah
[11:42] <eroomde> i can explain it probably
[11:42] <WILLdude> Go on
[11:42] <eroomde> so, let's take a radio
[11:43] <eroomde> tuned to radio 4
[11:43] <eroomde> i could drive it to the radio 4 transmitter site
[11:43] <eroomde> and listen to radio 4 there, say 10m away from the antenna
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[11:43] <fsphil> probably without a radio
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[11:44] <eroomde> now the way to think about the radio power you receive is to do with the distance from the antenna
[11:44] <eroomde> and if you go twice as far away from an antenna, the signal is actually 4 times weaker
[11:45] <eroomde> because it's do do with the surface area of a sphere whose radius is how far away you are
[11:45] <eroomde> follow so far?
[11:45] <eroomde> and the surface area goes with the square of radius
[11:46] <eroomde> with me so far?
[11:49] <LeoBodnar> But the volume of the free space that the antenna has to fill with signal increases as the third power of radius?
[11:49] <eroomde> sure but it's not to do with volume
[11:49] <LeoBodnar> So why the signal is not dropping as r^3?
[11:50] <eroomde> it's not really filling space, it's just about surface area
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[11:50] <eroomde> imagine the tower broadcast a single ping
[11:50] <eroomde> that would just look like a thin-skinned sphere growing out from the antenna
[11:51] <LeoBodnar> Imagine receiving antenna is a jar, the density of radio waves inside it will drop as r^3, will it not?
[11:52] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: i love your pico paylaod design
[11:53] <Darkside> excellent job
[11:53] <LeoBodnar> eroomde: I am just taking proverbial one :)
[11:53] <LeoBodnar> Thanks Darkside, I am planning to TX DominoEX digimode from it
[11:53] <Darkside> yeah, how are you doing such fine shifts?
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[11:54] <LeoBodnar> Si4460 but its a tough cookie
[11:54] <Darkside> the SI chip used in the RFM22B doesn't allow frequency shifts that fine
[11:54] <Darkside> the SI4432 it hink
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[11:54] <Darkside> so the Si4460 does?
[11:54] <Darkside> or are you modulating the crystal
[11:54] <LeoBodnar> It can't shift frequency during transmit :-|
[11:54] <eroomde> well, it's just not really about volume
[11:54] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: so you have to key down for a little bit, change frequency, then key up?
[11:55] <LeoBodnar> Sort of, it creates a bit of dirty spectral footprint but I am working on it.
[11:55] <Darkside> ahh yeah
[11:55] <Darkside> it would
[11:55] <Darkside> and there wouldn't be any way to do amplitude shaping either
[11:55] <LeoBodnar> Forget phase continuity, etc...
[11:55] <Darkside> mm that too
[11:56] <Darkside> i think thats where the modulated crystal method works well
[11:56] <Darkside> as the output will be phase coherent
[11:56] <LeoBodnar> It looks like Si4432 was just plain RF ASIC, Si446x series has some sort of processor inside - you have to boot it before start using it, etc...
[11:56] <Darkside> oh thats interesting
[11:57] <Darkside> hmm nope
[11:57] <Darkside> theres no 8051 core in it
[11:57] <Darkside> i mean, with the Si4432 you had to set up various registers and things before you could get any output
[11:57] <LeoBodnar> Well first command is to boot and and alternatively apply a patch?
[11:58] <Darkside> odd
[11:58] <LeoBodnar> Or it looks like there is an option to upload a patch
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[11:59] <LeoBodnar> I remember Bluetooth TI CCxxx chips had similar stuff but there you had to send microcode into the chip when starting it up.
[11:59] <Darkside> i thought those chips had 8051 cores in them
[12:00] <LeoBodnar> You would think so because Silabs have 8051+RF chips
[12:00] <Darkside> yeah
[12:00] <Darkside> the Si1000
[12:00] <Darkside> hrm
[12:01] <LeoBodnar> Xtal pulling is very nonlinear and steps are too big for Domino modes
[12:01] <Darkside> i'd be interested to see if you can get the asynchronous demodulator working with 300 baud rtty
[12:01] <LeoBodnar> I use 15.625Hz tone spacing
[12:02] <Darkside> which domino mode is that?
[12:02] <LeoBodnar> DominoEX 16
[12:02] <Darkside> ok
[12:03] <Darkside> i've implemented that on a AD9834 DDS based transmitter
[12:03] <Darkside> had to do quite a bit of tweaking of the frequency shifts
[12:03] <LeoBodnar> Looks good so far, -15dB s/n decoding in dl-fldigi
[12:03] <Darkside> as i couldn't get exactly the right shift due to the frequency resolution of the AD9834
[12:03] <LeoBodnar> What's AD9834 power consumption?
[12:04] <Darkside> not much
[12:04] <Darkside> uhm
[12:04] <Darkside> 20mW
[12:04] <Darkside> but it can't drive much RF power
[12:04] <LeoBodnar> 8mA wow, I'll get one to play with
[12:05] <Darkside> its just a DDS though
[12:05] <Darkside> you'd need an amp to do anything useful with it
[12:05] <Darkside> and HF only
[12:05] <LeoBodnar> I see, but it can feed Si4432
[12:05] <Darkside> i built a HF data transmitter with one
[12:05] <Darkside> ooh now thats a good idea
[12:05] <Darkside> it has a square wave output
[12:05] <Darkside> just use that
[12:05] <Darkside> it can output the sign bit as TTL
[12:06] <Darkside> i use that output to drive a Class-E amplifier for a HF beacon
[12:06] <Darkside> works like a charm
[12:06] <Darkside> (albeit with a bit of phase noise)
[12:06] <LeoBodnar> I see. Is it portable one?
[12:07] <Darkside> i'm using them at a few remote sites for some propagation experiments
[12:07] <LeoBodnar> Very interesting, what mode do you use?
[12:07] <Darkside> PSK :-)
[12:08] <Darkside> i've implemented a crude form of phase shaping
[12:08] <Darkside> which cleans up the output signal quite significantly as compared to hard-keyed PSK
[12:08] <Darkside> still working on optimising that
[12:09] <Darkside> currently its just doing linear phase transitions, but i think if i shape the phase transition appropriately, it'll reduce the sidebands of the transmitted signal even more
[12:09] <LeoBodnar> Does AD9834 have a controlled phase synth?
[12:09] <Darkside> yeah, you can set the phase of the output signal
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[12:10] <Darkside> 10 bit resolution iirc
[12:10] <ibanezmatt13> Good Afternoon :)
[12:10] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: i've been meaning to implement QPSK on it, but havent gotten around to it yet
[12:10] <Darkside> im thinking of doing offset-QPSK instead, as that shoudl be even cleaner
[12:10] <Darkside> smaller phase shifts and all
[12:11] <LeoBodnar> Interesting stuff, does it have low enough phase noise to be used in receivers?
[12:11] <Darkside> the AD9834? yeh
[12:11] <Darkside> well
[12:11] <Darkside> i've seen similar chips used as LO's in receivers
[12:11] <Darkside> i use an AD9851 as a LO for an old codan HF manpack
[12:12] <LeoBodnar> just looked up: -110dBc/Hz at 100Hz, looks good!
[12:12] <Darkside> mm
[12:12] <Darkside> if you want a 30MHz LO, i'd use the AD9851
[12:12] <Darkside> uses more power though
[12:13] <Darkside> has more frequency resolution iirc
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[12:13] <Darkside> ahh
[12:13] <Darkside> way more power
[12:13] <Darkside> heh
[12:13] <Darkside> 555mW
[12:13] <Darkside> maaaybe not
[12:14] <ibanezmatt13> ping eroomde
[12:14] <LeoBodnar> A lot of (all?) good clean synthesisers are power hungry chips :(
[12:15] <Darkside> linearity = power inefficient
[12:15] <LeoBodnar> hmmm
[12:16] <LeoBodnar> I have made another tracker based on Si4460 but this is non-GPS stuff http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/IMG_1274.jpg http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/IMG_1275.jpg
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[12:17] <Darkside> just a little beeper?
[12:17] <LeoBodnar> Yes, Sputnik-like
[12:17] <Darkside> heh cool
[12:17] <Darkside> only 20mW output tho :(
[12:17] <Darkside> oh yeah
[12:18] <Darkside> something i'd be interested in knowing, is the receive noise floor on your board
[12:18] <Darkside> when you have an antenna hooked up
[12:18] <LeoBodnar> It's for model airplanes tracking, pretty much fox-hunting
[12:18] <Darkside> cool, i'm well into foxhunting :-)
[12:19] <Darkside> hmm
[12:19] <Darkside> maybe the Si4464 would be a good chip to use as a 2m fox transmitter
[12:19] <LeoBodnar> You can HIDE this one
[12:19] <LeoBodnar> lol
[12:19] <Darkside> hey, i can hide mine too :P
[12:20] <Darkside> so your boards are all 4-layer?
[12:20] <LeoBodnar> Have you used RF+mcu from Silabs? This sounds like what it should be from the beginning
[12:20] <LeoBodnar> No, 2 layer, they are just toys really
[12:20] <Darkside> wat
[12:20] <Darkside> niiiiice
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[12:20] <Darkside> thats some excellent routing then
[12:21] <Darkside> anyways, i;'d be interested to know what the noise is like on your boards
[12:21] <Darkside> the noise floor the Si chip sees, that is
[12:21] <ibanezmatt13> Hi chrisstubbs :)
[12:21] <chrisstubbs> afternoon
[12:22] <ibanezmatt13> I'm trying to work out how to set flight mode on my Ublox still
[12:22] <ibanezmatt13> I've made "some" progress
[12:22] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5750785
[12:22] <ibanezmatt13> I have one line of code which sends a UBX command to the GPS, that's all :\
[12:22] <LeoBodnar> Cheers! I won't expect much as they are 2-layer and compromised for size. I was thinking about making a proper on-off prototyping PCB for measurements.
[12:22] <LeoBodnar> one-off that is
[12:22] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not sure how to read the response, and what to expect from it
[12:23] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: still very cool
[12:23] <Darkside> what boost converter are you using?
[12:23] <LeoBodnar> Silabs probably has some evaluation kits? Probably on special for only 999.99 :)
[12:24] <LeoBodnar> LTC3526
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[12:24] <Darkside> hmm
[12:24] <Darkside> need >100mA for 100mW
[12:24] <Darkside> at 3.3v this is
[12:25] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, with your hex in quotes like that, i expect it would just send it as ascii text
[12:25] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, do I need a list?
[12:25] <ibanezmatt13> [0xB5, 0x62, 0x06, 0x24, 0x24, 0x00, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0x06, 0x03, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x10, 0x27, 0x00, 0x00, 0x05, 0x00, 0xFA, 0x00, 0xFA, 0x00, 0x64, 0x00, 0x2C, 0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x16, 0xDC] ?
[12:26] <chrisstubbs> PM
[12:27] <eroomde> pong ibanezmatt13
[12:27] <LeoBodnar> Mouser has 433MHz plug-in boards http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Silicon-Labs/4460-PCE10D434-EK/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsWX%252bhSDNx2gZZccu%2fwgGab for £35
[12:28] <Upu> hey LeoBodnar would you be willing to share the schematic for the PCB you linked this morning, mainly so I can check mine against a known working one
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[12:30] <LeoBodnar> Yes, sure, I'll email you one after I have played a bit more with Si4460. I have a few minor issues I can't put down to a specific reason. When the board gets reset by WDT the Si4460 won't initialise.
[12:30] <ibanezmatt13> Hi eroomde. It went ok, but it was very biassed. The judges were teachers of all the other participants...
[12:30] <Upu> ok thanks
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[12:33] <eroomde> that's annoying ibanezmatt13
[12:33] <ibanezmatt13> little bit, I was happy with what I did though
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[12:43] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, do you still have the link to that cheap camera?
[12:44] <cuddykid> ended unfortunately
[12:44] <cuddykid> there was another one I spotted earlier - but looks like you can't run CHDK on it
[12:45] <cuddykid> oh, that's ended now too
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[12:46] <Hix> anyone fancy a nice cheap GPS module from Radical :) http://goo.gl/ggU5S
[12:49] <ibanezmatt13> bit pricey :)
[12:49] <eroomde> what kind of gps is that?
[12:49] <LeoBodnar> Connectors look cheap :) I have similar system from Motec for a customer - also about £5000
[12:51] <Hix> I'm guessig its no more than a 10Hz unit. LeoBodnar agree connectors look cheap.
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[12:52] <LeoBodnar> They use it for lap timing where trackside sensors are not available or switched off. At 200mph 1 metre is about 10 msec.
[12:52] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, darn, mums after a new camera
[12:52] <cuddykid> chrisstubbs: keep an eye on HUKD - there have been a few bargains recently
[12:52] <eroomde> so are they differential?
[12:52] <cuddykid> the one this morning was a good SLR for £100
[12:52] <LeoBodnar> I don't know whether it has some sort of DR or INS or just massively fast update rate
[12:53] <LeoBodnar> No, not differential
[12:54] <eroomde> hmm, i wonder what it actually is
[12:54] <LeoBodnar> This is the one I have seen: http://www.motec.com/gpsl10/gpsl10overview/ seems average spec to me, apart from price. I think your job is safe, eroomde
[12:54] <Hix> race technology hint at using a kalman filter with GPS and accelerometers
[12:54] <Hix> http://www.race-technology.com/dl1_gps_receiver_test_2_30667.html
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[12:55] <eroomde> once you've cnc'd a box from aluminium and given raychem and deutche a mortage's worth of money for cables and connectors and then taken your margin, i can't see you'd have much left for a military or differential gps
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:55] <LeoBodnar> It's just like everything in motorsport. Add another zero to everything
[12:56] <eroomde> yes
[12:56] <eroomde> i wish that were true for rockets
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: It is.
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> It's just you also add zeros to the zeros.
[12:56] <LeoBodnar> Are you adding them in front?!
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> The motorsport people haven't realised this applies.
[12:57] <eroomde> it's probably true for miliary rockets
[12:57] <Hix> http://www.autosportlabs.com/ is an open source project
[12:57] <Hix> eroomde: you should use your new GPS god-status to bring a product to market - nice little sideline
[12:57] <LeoBodnar> I hope it does not have another duino or pi inside it
[12:58] <eroomde> well it's tempting
[12:58] <eroomde> but i do like machining things from billet and putting expensive circular connectors on them
[12:59] <Hix> LeoBodnar: 48MHz 32 bit ARM processor
[12:59] <Hix> billet housings and deutsch is shinyporn
[13:00] <eroomde> yes
[13:00] <eroomde> we don;t use deutsch usually
[13:00] <LeoBodnar> Good. However Arduino uses Cortex-M3 already. I think it flopped though.
[13:00] <eroomde> just more conventional milspec
[13:00] <Hix> raychem
[13:00] <eroomde> amphenol GB62 range is what i use normally
[13:00] <eroomde> do use raychem :)
[13:01] <Hix> ahh
[13:01] <eroomde> spec 55
[13:01] <Hix> i love nice connectors
[13:01] <eroomde> practically eatbthe stuff with bolognese
[13:01] <Hix> they are works of art
[13:01] <eroomde> i really like lemo
[13:01] <eroomde> but tend not to use them
[13:01] <LeoBodnar> Are they greenish colour?
[13:01] <eroomde> because their pins are wierd
[13:01] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: yes (olive drab) though they do a more pleasing plated black version
[13:02] <eroomde> 62LC
[13:02] <eroomde> otherwise identical
[13:02] <LeoBodnar> Are they not ROHS compliant because of some cadmium issues?
[13:02] <eroomde> no idea but we don;t care about any of that
[13:02] <Hix> heh
[13:02] <eroomde> aerospace prototypes are exempt
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[13:02] <Hix> LeoBodnar: do you have any good resources for learning about logging?
[13:02] <LeoBodnar> I see, I had to avoid them because of this for commercial products
[13:03] <LeoBodnar> Hix, what sort of logging?
[13:04] <Hix> anything really, just interested in a logging project max 200Hz
[13:04] <eroomde> don't use NI or labview
[13:04] <eroomde> here endeth my lesson
[13:04] <LeoBodnar> Do you mean just generic datalogging?
[13:05] <Hix> LeoBodnar: initially, but when i learn there will be an autosport bias
[13:05] <Hix> Work use NI and Labview eroomde
[13:05] <Hix> looks expensive for what it is
[13:05] <eroomde> the hardware is ok enough
[13:06] <eroomde> the software and ecosystem and monstrosoities that get produced by it sometimes put me intoa coma
[13:07] <LeoBodnar> No idea, Hix, I am flattered you asked me though :) It should be just a common sense project, sensors-acquisition-processing-storage
[13:07] <Hix> I'm becoming increasingly bored of just being a CAD monkey. It would be interesting to work on developent and testing
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[13:09] <eroomde> my advice if you want it - op amps are great. learn about making nice analogue front ends. this is an area i'm interested in too. microcontrollers you've got covered. saving is interesting - there are a million options from sd cards (wierd beasts) to ethernet
[13:10] <cn8dn> LeoBodnar: please Products pack full system balloon
[13:10] <eroomde> also op amps are great
[13:10] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, go for analogue! Analogue engineers are like COBOL programmers. Rare but expensive.
[13:11] <eroomde> you're the latest target of a cryptogram LeoBodnar
[13:11] <Hix> I'll give op amps book another proper look eroomde - great resource
[13:12] <eroomde> or just have a stab at a front end
[13:12] <eroomde> gut a bridge-type pressure sensor or something
[13:12] <eroomde> and learn how and way to feed it
[13:12] <eroomde> why*
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[13:13] <eroomde> or fly a bridge-type differential pressure sensor on a hab
[13:13] <eroomde> and log that
[13:14] <LeoBodnar> Whatever you do don't forget to watch some Bob Pease: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N6cjGS7lUE
[13:14] <eroomde> float/burst data of what's going on inside the balloon relative to outside would be invaluable atm
[13:14] <eroomde> he gets his strength from his beard
[13:14] <eroomde> his favourite programming language is solder
[13:15] <Hix> could an xbee or similar be used to relay internal balloon data to the flight computer?
[13:16] <eroomde> also microchip has a bit of software called something like filterlab or filterdesigner
[13:16] <eroomde> shows you have to make active filters with opamps
[13:16] <eroomde> it's *really* good, i like it
[13:16] <eroomde> gives you bode plots for everything you make
[13:16] <eroomde> Hix: yes
[13:16] <eroomde> but could be noisy
[13:16] <eroomde> but can show you how to rf-filter before you get to the instrumentation amp
[13:17] <Hix> I'm currently designing some dampers for my car as the bought ones don't fit :/
[13:17] <eroomde> when i had no idea what i was doing at all with electronics, at all (about 2 years ago) i designed a pitot sensor that was very effective at telling me when i was sending telemetry or not
[13:18] <Hix> would be interesting to be able to log damper rates to optimise them as it's from scratch
[13:20] <Hix> HAB has been a really good way of broadening my horizons [if you excuse the punnage]
[13:20] <LeoBodnar> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E_zUJ-SKRE
[13:20] <LeoBodnar> For all your damper modelling needs
[13:21] <LeoBodnar> Sorry! Wrong link above. Here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cpTZcXdCDY&feature=player_detailpage#t=625s
[13:21] <Hix> cheers
[13:22] <Hix> though bandwidth limited for the next 23:38 due to Le Mans :)
[13:23] <Hix> found it - cheers eroomde http://goo.gl/ap2VR
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[13:29] <eroomde> i use it to design antialias filters for frontends
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[13:47] <cn8dn> 434.617 no 434.650 pb
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[13:47] <cn8dn> ntx2
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[13:52] <cn8dn> no sound
[13:52] <cn8dn> fldigi
[13:53] <eroomde> cn8dn: do you have a receiver?
[13:54] <cn8dn> yes dvb-t-dan+fm
[13:54] <cn8dn> good sound SDRSharp
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[13:59] <JFS1> Have a problem - when running rtty test code get beautiful clear rtty on dl-fldigi but when gps is plugged in the waterfall bands get 'smeared'
[13:59] <fsphil> that sounds like a problem with power
[13:59] <JFS1> and checksum is right only 50% of the time - suggestion?
[13:59] <fsphil> what are you powering the gps with?
[13:59] <JFS1> 5v arduino uno
[14:00] <fsphil> what gps module?
[14:00] <JFS1> u-blox6
[14:00] <fsphil> guessing it has its own regulator? the ublox needs 3.3v
[14:01] <JFS1> am using the 5v connection on the gps but could switch to 3.3v and give that a go if you think it worthwhile
[14:01] <fsphil> some breakout boards have all the hardware needed to interface with 5v logic devices like the arduino uno
[14:02] <fsphil> either way, it sounds like whatever is powering the board is not handling the load of both the arduino and the gps module
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[14:06] <SebastianFlyte> Anyone here been following the Solar Impulse?
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[14:08] <Hix> cn8dn: My hovercraft ... is full of eels
[14:08] <fsphil> a little bit SebastianFlyte
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[14:16] <LeoBodnar> Why or why?! It looks so ugly! Gossamer Condor is a beauty compared to Impulse.
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[14:19] <cn8dn> photo ardunio uno + gps+ ntx2 178.32.247.0/uno
[14:19] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> cn8dn, Do you have Virtual Audio Cable installed ? http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.htm
[14:19] <cn8dn> than
[14:20] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Then SDR# Audio output to VAC line 1, then dl-fldifi input from VAC line 1, dl-fldigi output to speakers
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[14:34] <SebastianFlyte> It looks pretty damn pretty to me, especially from 7,000 feet, or landing at KIAD
[14:34] <SebastianFlyte> Solar Impulse flew into Dulles airport (KIAD) last Saturday -- I chased it from Charlottesville to the Washington DC area.
[14:35] <SebastianFlyte> It's compelling to watch -- very big, very slow, very quiet. Strange watching it land on the same runway as 747s and A380s
[14:38] <LeoBodnar> I don't like heavy sponsorship. Reminds me of Steve Fosset.
[14:38] <LeoBodnar> Fossett
[14:47] <ibanezmatt13> what was that program called which changed unix text into something. I know that sounds really bad, something like linux2unix but obviously not that?
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[14:47] <fsphil> dos2unix
[14:47] <ibanezmatt13> that's it thanks
[14:48] <LeoBodnar> I though there was something like that on BBC 4 last night
[14:49] <ibanezmatt13> really confused how my GPS is working when it's not even powererd!!!
[14:50] <fsphil> what makes you think it's working?
[14:50] <ibanezmatt13> it's returning a GPGGA sentence as it should in the program
[14:50] <fsphil> then it is powered :)
[14:50] <fsphil> what connections are there to it?
[14:50] <ibanezmatt13> but how?
[14:50] <ibanezmatt13> e
[14:51] <ibanezmatt13> well VCC would be connected to regulator from batteries, but there are no batteries atm.
[14:51] <ibanezmatt13> Only the Pi power. GPS is only connected to TXD, RXD and GND really
[14:51] <ibanezmatt13> Although Pi is on GND too
[14:52] <fsphil> odd
[14:52] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[14:52] <fsphil> measure the voltage between gnd and the gps vcc
[14:52] <LeoBodnar> phantom power?
[14:52] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[14:52] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[14:53] <LeoBodnar> via i/o pins?
[14:53] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[14:53] <SpeedEvil> In principle, enough may be supplied by txd
[14:53] <ibanezmatt13> that's what I thought, but I did think it had to go to VCC
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[14:58] <ibanezmatt13> 3.2v VCC to ground on ublox
[14:58] <ibanezmatt13> must all be interlinked in the ublox
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[15:06] <fsphil> spooky
[15:06] <ibanezmatt13> mm
[15:06] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[15:06] <ibanezmatt13> still wating for the GPS to get a lock... unusually slow
[15:07] <fsphil> can depend on the position of the satellites
[15:07] <ibanezmatt13> yeah suppose so
[15:07] <ibanezmatt13> can the GPS work from inside a house?
[15:08] <ibanezmatt13> i.e., not near any walls?
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[15:08] <ibanezmatt13> or windows
[15:09] <number10> no - place it by the window - or take it outside to get lock quicker and then bring inside by the window
[15:09] <ibanezmatt13> won't it loose it?
[15:10] <ibanezmatt13> woo got it
[15:10] <ibanezmatt13> you're right
[15:11] <ibanezmatt13> now, I've added a new field to my datastring which is either True or False. Must I edit the payload file for this to work on Habittat?
[15:12] <Hix> Wow! This analog Discovery looks like great value. http://goo.gl/1bVyV would it be a better buy than a saleae logic analyser?
[15:13] <number10> put whatever you want in the payload string but usually name,count,time,lat,long,alt and then create a document to match
[15:15] <ibanezmatt13> ok
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[15:26] <iain_G4SGX> Well Well, I've had a very encouraging email from the RSGB VHF manager ( after much harassment) about proposing an NOV for us. I think they're going to go for it in their annual Ofcom consultations in next few weeks. I can email anyone the letter if they're interested.
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[15:27] <number10> thats good iain_G4SGX
[15:27] <LeoBodnar> Great stuff Hix! Does it do bus decoding like I2C, SPI, CAN?
[15:29] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> iain_G4SGX, Go on copy to geoff@g8dhe.net
[15:29] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> sounds good
[15:29] <iain_G4SGX> I think the gist is they're going to make a proposal which will probably get refused, but may respond with some pre-conditions if wer're lucky.
[15:29] <ibanezmatt13> number10, Just re-did a payload file and it's not working
[15:30] <number10> oh some thing wrong the ibanezmatt13 :) did you use the same config file you henerated for fldigi
[15:31] <ibanezmatt13> err, I just clicked, create new payload doc, and wen't through the setup
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[15:32] <mfa298> iain_G4SGX: sounds like a good start
[15:33] <ibanezmatt13> still nothing...
[15:34] <iain_G4SGX> Indeed. He thinks 2M will be a better bet as we're primary users and wont need CAA approval
[15:34] <ibanezmatt13> number10, I didn't generate a config file for dl-fldigi, never have...
[15:35] <mfa298> that could provide some good things to experiment with
[15:35] <ibanezmatt13> number10, oh I used the same name
[15:36] <Hix> not sure LeoBodnar http://goo.gl/qQkhh is the data sheet. look great for the money though. Shame it'll be the same price in £ as $ tho
[15:40] <ibanezmatt13> really confused as to why dl-fldigi is not uploading my data to HabHub
[15:41] <ibanezmatt13> Just created a new payload file, which is definitely the issue, but I can't understand why
[15:41] <Hix> you're not in offline mode are you?
[15:41] <ibanezmatt13> Nope
[15:41] <Hix> k
[15:41] <mfa298> there's a logtail option on habitat which might tell you if there's an issue
[15:41] <ibanezmatt13> It's definitely a problem with the new file I created
[15:41] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a look
[15:42] <ibanezmatt13> According to that, my lat and lon are not floats
[15:42] <ibanezmatt13> I'll change them to strings
[15:43] <ibanezmatt13> working now
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[15:43] <ibanezmatt13> It was the type of the variables
[15:44] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[15:44] <ibanezmatt13> Major issue though, flightmode isn't working
[15:44] <ibanezmatt13> Always getting a False for setting it
[15:46] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5750785
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[15:46] <ibanezmatt13> I think I've worked it out
[15:47] <ibanezmatt13> The only way it return a false is if the timeout fails. It's either timing out or the timeout function is incorrect
[15:49] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, does it print "(FAILED!)" about every 3 seconds?
[15:50] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[15:50] <ibanezmatt13> timeout issue
[15:50] <ibanezmatt13> it's longer than 3 seconds but that's probably just because of everything else I have running at once
[15:52] <chrisstubbs> yes possibly, I dont suppose python is very good at timing either.
[15:52] <chrisstubbs> I have a few ideas, will PM you
[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> ooh, just got a success
[15:52] <chrisstubbs> ah good :)
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[16:36] <Hix> Anyone used chipKIT? Seems pretty good http://goo.gl/MgXaW
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[16:42] <PaulCDR> UPU are you about?
[16:43] <Upu> I am
[16:43] <PaulCDR> can i ask you a quick question about a gps module i got off you a while ago
[16:43] <Upu> sure shoot
[16:44] <PaulCDR> i can no longer get a fix with it, is there anyway to test it? im getting all the nema strings out, but all zeros
[16:44] <Upu> do you get time ?
[16:44] <PaulCDR> no
[16:44] <Upu> has it been dropped ?
[16:44] <PaulCDR> dont think so
[16:45] <Upu> generally that means the antenna is fault
[16:45] <PaulCDR> emm, fixable?
[16:45] <Upu> the Sarantel ones are prone to being damaged if they are dropped or banged
[16:45] <Upu> well yes and no
[16:45] <Upu> yes they are fixable
[16:45] <Upu> no I don't have any more of the antennas as they are end of life
[16:45] <PaulCDR> easier to buy a new one?
[16:45] <Upu> probably you can send it back
[16:46] <Upu> and I can try remove the module
[16:46] <Upu> and put it on a new board
[16:46] <Upu> but I don't alway have 100% success :)
[16:46] <Upu> always
[16:46] <PaulCDR> hoping to launch in about 3 weeks, probably safer to get a new one then
[16:47] <PaulCDR> do you have any in stock
[16:48] <Upu> was it the level converter one ?
[16:48] <PaulCDR> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=68
[16:48] <PaulCDR> that one
[16:48] <Upu> yes I have some in stock
[16:48] <Upu> send it back as well I'll try fix it
[16:48] <Upu> I do have some spare center bits but they have been removed from other boards
[16:49] <PaulCDR> Thats great, thanks, ill place an order now and get that sent back on monday
[16:49] <Upu> nps thanks
[16:49] <Upu> buy a conference ticket as well :)
[16:50] <PaulCDR> conference ticket?
[16:50] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference2013
[16:52] <PaulCDR> that looks great,
[16:53] <PaulCDR> can you do it next week as i could do with some of that info for a few weeks time :)
[16:53] <Hix> Upu, whilst you are here have you seen the Analog Discovery device http://goo.gl/buHJ1 thinking it could be a very useful purchase, but not sure
[16:54] <Upu> interesting
[16:54] <Upu> I have a Salea
[16:55] <Hix> it seems to do the same and more. The free software looks pretty powerful too http://goo.gl/eFFKK
[16:55] <Hix> not got budget for it atm but looks like its on the list
[16:55] <Upu> yup :)
[16:56] <Hix> You think it would be more useful than a Saleae?
[16:59] <Upu> possibly
[16:59] <Upu> priced well
[16:59] <Upu> I use my occasionally
[16:59] <Upu> mine
[16:59] <Upu> ok afk
[17:08] <LeoBodnar> I have scope with HW analyser but this is one cool little portable thing
[17:11] <eroomde> have both
[17:11] <eroomde> like both
[17:11] <eroomde> i do like having it on the scope though
[17:13] <Hix> eroomde: you have the analog device?
[17:14] <mfa298> Hix: that does look like an interesting device. Might solve the whole Logic Analyser or Scope question.
[17:14] <eroomde> oh no
[17:14] <eroomde> sorry
[17:14] <eroomde> scope vs salae
[17:14] <Hix> s'what i was thinking. seems to tick lots of boxes
[17:14] <eroomde> it's not a scope
[17:14] <eroomde> not a patch on one
[17:15] <eroomde> i did look at that discovery thing as a complex impedance meter
[17:15] <eroomde> but it's no scope
[17:15] <eroomde> would always get a scope first, if anything
[17:16] <Hix> more useful than a logic analyser?
[17:16] <eroomde> yes
[17:16] <eroomde> definitely definitely
[17:16] <eroomde> it is a logic analyser too really
[17:17] <eroomde> in that if it's a digital one (recommend) then it has memory
[17:17] <eroomde> so you can capture say a couple of million samples and see the waveform
[17:17] <Hix> ok, I'll read up on scopes and look for a sh one
[17:17] <eroomde> the rigols are reviewed well
[17:17] <eroomde> the new rigols especially so
[17:17] <eroomde> more pricey tho
[17:17] <eroomde> but get as much memory depth as you can
[17:17] <LeoBodnar> The one that you like always costs about £15,000
[17:18] <eroomde> well yes, there is that...
[17:18] <Hix> my ongoing 4 figure damper saga has caned any hope of shiny stuff
[17:18] <eroomde> you can get amazing scopes now for £5k, £800, £250
[17:18] <eroomde> they seem to be the price points
[17:18] <eroomde> with kinda no-mans lands in between
[17:19] <eroomde> or £30 for an old analog one
[17:19] <Hix> £250 is the ceiling for my situation
[17:19] <eroomde> hmm
[17:19] <eroomde> rigol 1052
[17:19] <Hix> analog useful though?
[17:19] <eroomde> still useful but they don;t have storage
[17:19] <eroomde> usually
[17:19] <eroomde> and storage is *so* useful
[17:20] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: this is the happy unit on my desk
[17:20] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/atnqynzht29hhcm/2013-06-13%2011.35.32.jpg
[17:21] <LeoBodnar> Yum!
[17:21] <LeoBodnar> I have lowly Agilent 3000 series.
[17:22] <eroomde> i actually quite want one of those twoo
[17:22] <eroomde> the mixed signal 4ch 350MHz one
[17:23] <eroomde> i like the interface and the bajillion triggering options
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[17:26] <eroomde> Hix: a scope is to electronics what a lathe is to machining
[17:26] <eroomde> if the choice is lathe or mill or drill, you get the lathe
[17:27] <eroomde> because you can mill and drill on the lathe too
[17:27] <Hix> don't start me on CNC, I want a man shed with CNC and a Faro sooo badly
[17:27] <eroomde> same deal with scopes. you can measure voltages, frequencies, look at digital packets, all sorts
[17:28] <eroomde> we have an old but nice ser-driven bridgeport retrofit at work
[17:28] <eroomde> i like it
[17:28] <eroomde> though the controller needs a bit of care and feeding
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[17:31] <mfa298> eroomde: looking at those rigols do you have any particular thoughts over something like 1052E + seperate Logic analyser (Salae) or having the 1052D with it's built in 16 chan la.
[17:32] <mfa298> I've not done any real feature comparison, more interested in the usefulness of two seperate devices or a combined one.
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[17:33] <eroomde> hmm, interesting question and i'm not sure i know the answer
[17:33] <eroomde> i've not used a builtin LA on the rigol
[17:33] <eroomde> i like the salae very much
[17:33] <eroomde> if budget allows rigol + salae, that might be a nice combo
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[17:34] <zyp> my guess is that internal analyzer in rigol is not as good as saleae
[17:34] <mfa298> I suppose part of it is whether having a seperate la to the scope is more useful than one box that does it all.
[17:34] <zyp> and saleae is a bit more portable too
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[17:34] <mfa298> cost wise there doesn't look to be a lot in it - although space wise it's one less box (although the salae looks to be fairly small)
[17:34] <zyp> so I wouldn't bother with internal LA
[17:35] <radim_OM2AMR> evening, STS-4 is airborne, second attempt. First one landed on the 10m tree. Succesfuly rescued with balloon. Added two or three more stirks :-)
[17:35] <eroomde> i'd probably sooner get a mixed signal scope for a bit more money
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[17:36] <eroomde> more like £3k (i.e. someone else is paying / for doing paid work)
[17:36] <eroomde> and for hobby, the salae and the rigol
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[17:37] <mfa298> going on the principle that have a tool that does one job and does it well having the seperate devices is probably the way to go. Sounds like it might be a case of grab some paper and compare the specs
[17:38] <radim_OM2AMR> info for polish hams - STS-4 dial freq is 438.013 MHz
[17:43] <eroomde> mfa298: yep
[17:43] <eroomde> easier to try new things too
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[17:48] <eroomde> we on a few occassions used to launch north-east ou of cambridge, well out into the north sea, then it would dog-leg back towards rob
[17:48] <eroomde> it seemed to be a summer thing
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[17:56] <LeoBodnar> Don't be fooled with LA capabilities in scopes - often you need to pay extra to unlock bus decoding analysis. Usually in the order of 100-300 per bus type - I2C, SPI, UART, CAN, etc
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[17:57] <eroomde> though often with more expensive test equipment a rep will come round
[17:57] <eroomde> who is amenable to haggling
[17:57] <eroomde> we got all the licenses thrown in with a purchase of a scope arriving next week
[17:58] <LeoBodnar> OH, and definitely call local sales office an nag for free stuff or discounts
[17:58] <LeoBodnar> Lucky!
[17:58] <eroomde> our rohde an schwarz guy really likes us
[17:58] <eroomde> we're lucky
[17:58] <eroomde> we just make nice coffee and show him shiny rocket things
[17:59] <eroomde> despite our annual turnover probably being less that what vodafone would pay for a single field LTE simulator from them or something
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[18:01] <mfa298> less likely to get the sales guy calling around for hobbyist purchases.
[18:01] <eroomde> yes indeed
[18:01] <eroomde> but the salae comes with all the decoders
[18:02] <mfa298> it's amazing what you can acheive in a business though, especially if you're buying at the right time of year
[18:02] <eroomde> yeah
[18:03] <eroomde> see i'm quite new to the world of work
[18:03] <eroomde> a lot of my trying-to-get-shit-done experience was formed by CUSF
[18:03] <eroomde> and one of the big eye openers in business-to-business is sales reps/engineers and customer service in general
[18:03] <eroomde> you don;t have to spend hours reading up on wikipedia about pipe fittings
[18:04] <eroomde> someone will just come over and explain it to you and leave you with a bunch of samples and his card
[18:04] <mfa298> getting in at the end of quarter / year can be good if they're eiter trying to hit targets / shift stock from the warehouse
[18:04] <SpeedEvil> It helps if you're trying to order a hundred thousand connectors - or one connector worth a hundred thousand. :)
[18:04] <eroomde> if you think a vector network analyser looks nice, but want to compare it with another one, you don't have to pore over the datatsheets
[18:04] <eroomde> a rep will drive out and loan you one
[18:05] <eroomde> it's really good
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[18:06] <mfa298> I've done the same sort of things with enterprise network kit and servers.
[18:06] <mfa298> the difficulty is having enough time to play with all the stuff you can get like that
[18:08] <eroomde> yep
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[18:14] <BenBancroft> In dl-fldigi, is it normal to have a black screen with a series of coloured bands every transmition, as I have this but I cant read any data, just the odd random character?
[18:14] <mfa298> that sounds like you don't have enough audio input into it.
[18:15] <BenBancroft> I have
[18:15] <BenBancroft> as when i kill my transmission program the bands stop coming
[18:15] <BenBancroft> so from that Im presuming its getting some data
[18:15] <mfa298> you might just need to turn the volume up
[18:16] <mfa298> usually the waterfall is mostly blue with the signal lines showing up as yellow
[18:16] <BenBancroft> Im using SDR# and a virtual audio cable
[18:18] <BenBancroft> Im talking to the transmitter at 300 baud, and configured dl-fldigi to 300 in settings, and now its cursor matches the length in the window at the bottom
[18:18] <mfa298> there's a diamonond at the bottom next to the AFC button that should be green if it's got a good signal
[18:18] <BenBancroft> by AFC?
[18:19] <BenBancroft> if so its grey
[18:19] <BenBancroft> or black even
[18:19] <mfa298> sounds like you need to turn the volume up somewhere
[18:20] <mfa298> it's not a good example but this is roughtly how it looks when I'm receiving a payload https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14636926/dl-fldigi%201.jpg
[18:20] <mfa298> I didn't have a particularly strong signal when I did that screenshot so there's not much signal line to see
[18:23] <BenBancroft> I have a completly black screen (no noise), and some faint blue bars from far left across to right, when My payload is running
[18:23] <BenBancroft> if not running I get nothing
[18:23] <BenBancroft> if i move the frequency in sd# i get loads of noise
[18:24] <mfa298> it sounds like you need to turn the volume up, probably either in sdr# or the record level
[18:24] <mfa298> It sounds like there's not enough audio signal for dl-fldigi to lock onyo
[18:24] <BenBancroft> any idea how to do that?
[18:25] <mfa298> Volume control in sdr# or look at the recording properties (assuming you're on some sort of windows)
[18:25] <mfa298> it's probably the sdr# volume control thats too low
[18:26] <BenBancroft> Could it also be my program?
[18:26] <BenBancroft> Im just doing write(serial, "test\n", 5); to a serial connection
[18:27] <mfa298> all that dl-fldigi sees is an audio stream from the radio (sdr# in this case), if there's not much on the waterfall then it doesn't have enough *audio* level.
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[18:28] <mfa298> with no signal the waterfall should look a bit like the screenshot I did, you payload should show up on that as two yellow lines
[18:29] <BenBancroft> if i turn up the audio gain in sdr# i get more
[18:29] <BenBancroft> my lines are longer, and a load of noise
[18:30] <mfa298> that sounds more like it should do. Hopefully that diamond has turned green now as well
[18:31] <BenBancroft> nope
[18:32] <mfa298> can you take a screenshot ?
[18:33] <BenBancroft> ok
[18:33] <BenBancroft> Just give me a second
[18:38] <BenBancroft> thats without transmitting
[18:38] <BenBancroft> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/37357280/normal.png
[18:39] <BenBancroft> and thats just after i start
[18:39] <BenBancroft> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/37357280/after.png
[18:39] <daveake> "without transmitting" - you mean transmitter completely off, or just no data?
[18:39] <daveake> 'cos I don't even see the carrier
[18:40] <mfa298> you might want to start dl-fldigi in hab mode (which will give you the hab extensions)
[18:40] <mfa298> that looks like you still need to turn the volume up a bit more
[18:40] <daveake> Looks like it's not tuned in and/or not in USB mode
[18:40] <BenBancroft> no data
[18:41] <mfa298> you might also want to check that dl-fldigi is listening to the virtual sound card rather than some other input
[18:41] <daveake> OK no data you should get a vertical yellow line
[18:41] <BenBancroft> iv changed to 50 baud and im getting yellow column now
[18:42] <daveake> Hold on. When there's no data it makes no difference what baud rate the data would be if it were there
[18:42] <daveake> You should get a solid yellow line with no data
[18:42] <BenBancroft> nope
[18:43] <BenBancroft> unless its of the screen
[18:43] <daveake> Well start with the SDR screen
[18:43] <BenBancroft> ok
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[18:43] <daveake> Look at the area around where the NTX2 labelled frequency is
[18:44] <BenBancroft> i see band at 434.100 in sdr#
[18:44] <daveake> And it's a 434.075 NTX2?
[18:44] <BenBancroft> yes
[18:45] <daveake> OK and what mode is SDR# set to?
[18:45] <BenBancroft> WFM i think
[18:45] <daveake> Wrong
[18:45] <daveake> USB
[18:45] <BenBancroft> USB?
[18:45] <BenBancroft> i have changed now
[18:46] <daveake> OK now make sure you've selected the correct frequency range is SDR# to pass through to the virtual audio channel
[18:46] <daveake> Then check the waterfall in dl-fldigi
[18:47] <BenBancroft> lots of yellow
[18:47] <daveake> You might want to reduce the volume
[18:47] <BenBancroft> turned down AF gain and it changed into band
[18:47] <daveake> Anyhoo, you should now see a vertical line
[18:48] <BenBancroft> i see large yellow block
[18:48] <daveake> and when you transmit you should see 2 lines (for 50 baud) or 2 wide bands (for 300)
[18:48] <daveake> No still wrong then
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[18:49] <BenBancroft> got yellow band now
[18:50] <daveake> Good what did you change?
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[18:50] <BenBancroft> the freuqncy slightly
[18:51] <daveake> ok
[18:51] <BenBancroft> was failing to master horrible slider on sdr#
[18:51] <BenBancroft> anyway i have band now
[18:51] <BenBancroft> and when I transmit the band gets bigger
[18:51] <BenBancroft> at 50 baud on both
[18:52] <BenBancroft> Diamond is green, but still no data
[18:53] <daveake> Have you set the shift in dl-fldigi to match the shift between the 2 yellow lines?
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[18:54] <BenBancroft> another thing I notice is another yellow band apears when i transmit, to the left of first
[18:54] <BenBancroft> and the first gets bigger
[18:54] <BenBancroft> Im on RTTY-50
[18:54] <daveake> Yes this is correct
[18:55] <BenBancroft> serial is 50 baud also
[18:55] <daveake> The distance between those 2 lines is the "audio shift"
[18:55] <daveake> and you need to set that in dl-fldigi
[18:55] <BenBancroft> ok
[18:55] <BenBancroft> and is that what the potential dividor does
[18:56] <daveake> yes
[18:56] <BenBancroft> ok
[18:56] <BenBancroft> so I need to calculate it from the resistors
[18:56] <daveake> No you can see it on the screen in front of you
[18:57] <schoppenhauer> hello. mclane, how was your balloon flight? (I could not come to deuerling, I was sick, unfortunately.)
[18:57] <BenBancroft> ok
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[18:57] <mclane> Hello schoppenhauer, we had a successfull flight: 39.392 m altitude
[18:58] <schoppenhauer> mclane: imba.
[18:58] <BenBancroft> The gap is about half the blue horizontal bands height
[18:58] <mclane> we recovered the payload under a high voltage power line
[18:58] <BenBancroft> where abouts do I set the shift?
[18:58] <mclane> descent was quite fast since the balloon remnants tangeled around the parachute
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[18:59] <mclane> data will be published soon on our web site www.stratosphaere.net
[18:59] <schoppenhauer> mclane: ok, I will watch it.
[19:00] <daveake> BenBancroft, See http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/guides:sdr6.png from the wiki
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[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:01] <mfa298> BenBancroft: right click on the "RTTY" at the bottom of the screen and it's the option called carrier shift
[19:01] <daveake> The shift is set on the rtty setup page, same as the baud rate etc
[19:01] <schoppenhauer> well, I have a general question on 434 MHz radio. does one have to drive after the balloon to track it? and if so, what if the connection is lost at some point?
[19:04] <mfa298> schoppenhauer: whilst their at altitude they can be picked recieved from a good distance (100km or more). As it comes down that range gets smaller. Obviously if people want it back they need to drive after it to collect it.
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[19:04] <BenBancroft> OK i have set it to 100 which looks about correct, and bits per character to 8, but still no data
[19:05] <mclane> schoppenhauer: we had people receiving PYSY5 in the Netherlands today
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[19:06] <mfa298> BenBancroft: that's quite a small shift compared to most payloads (although in theory I think 100Hz is ok)
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[19:06] <mfa298> did you use the resistor values suggested on the wiki ?
[19:06] <schoppenhauer> mclane: ok, that is far.
[19:06] <mfa298> I think the record for distance is around 800km
[19:07] <schoppenhauer> mfa298: ok, so if on some point one lose the connection, one can only hope that either somebody else maybe receives it, or the gsm-fallback works.
[19:07] <BenBancroft> two 2k7 and a 20k
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[19:08] <mfa298> schoppenhauer: depends on what people put in the payload, Some people will fly two radio payloads, some people have tried gsm. The aim is to have someting that doesn't fail
[19:09] <mfa298> BenBancroft: what voltage is logic high ?
[19:09] <BenBancroft> 3.3v
[19:09] <schoppenhauer> mfa298: ok.
[19:15] <mfa298> BenBancroft: If I did the sums right a shift of 100Hz sounds too low.
[19:15] <BenBancroft> it could be my noise level
[19:15] <BenBancroft> Im actually doing the calculations now - what did you get?
[19:15] <mfa298> around 400Hz
[19:16] <daveake> Sounds about right. I use 4k7/4k7/16k for 600Hz on 3.3V
[19:18] <mfa298> more screenshots and possibly a diagram (and photos) of your setup might help if you still cant make it work.
[19:20] <BenBancroft> Am doing now
[19:21] <BenBancroft> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/37357280/400.png
[19:21] <mfa298> the shift is definetly too small there.
[19:21] <daveake> Er, that's 600Hz shift not 100
[19:21] <daveake> You need to set 600 in dl-fldigi then you need to click halfway between the 2 yellow lines to "tune in"
[19:22] <mfa298> the two red lines show the configured shift, the yellow lines are the payload
[19:22] <BenBancroft> ok done
[19:23] <daveake> Also I think that's 300 baud you've got there not 50
[19:23] <mfa298> you should see the red seperate more as you increase the shift
[19:23] <daveake> Or it's a very short message at 50
[19:23] <BenBancroft> test\n i message
[19:24] <GadgetDroid> Upu: see pm pls
[19:24] <BenBancroft> Also is it normal to get two bands
[19:24] <mfa298> I was going to say that's some odd horizontal banding on the waterfall. It's also not showing much at the lower frequencies.
[19:24] <daveake> Yes those are the 1's and 0's in the data
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[19:25] <BenBancroft> The second is only when I send data
[19:25] <mfa298> you should have the two yellow lines
[19:25] <mfa298> one is the mark frequency and one is the space frequency for rtty
[19:25] <BenBancroft> got it working
[19:25] <daveake> woohoo
[19:26] <BenBancroft> now reading my string! thank
[19:26] <BenBancroft> I needed to click in middle of two bands
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> evening daveake , did I show you my new flight computer too? I think you were not online when I did
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[19:39] <griffonbot> Received email: mclane "[UKHAS] Re: Launch announcement PYSY-5"
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[20:10] Nick change: radim_OM2AMR_ -> radim_OM2AMR
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[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> hi radim_OM2AMR
[20:19] <radim_OM2AMR> hi Lunar_Lander
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
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[20:19] <radim_OM2AMR> our pico is freezing now :-(
[20:19] <radim_OM2AMR> see tracker, gps is frozen
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[20:22] <craag> Which GPS chip?
[20:23] <radim_OM2AMR> max6
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[20:25] <craag> :( hopefully it warms back up soon!
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[20:26] <radim_OM2AMR> RFM still reporting temp aroung -27C
[20:26] <radim_OM2AMR> around
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[20:28] <LazyLeopard> Ah. Another one with a simple height restriction?
[20:29] <radim_OM2AMR> no, it's proven above 22km, that pico is doing it's 5-th flight
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[20:30] <craag> I asked because the non-tcxo MAX7 appears to have issues with cold.
[20:30] <craag> MAX6 however should be fine.
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[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> hello to austria
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:32] <radim_OM2AMR> evening erwin
[20:32] <OE1FEA> hello out there :)
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[20:32] <OE1FEA> hi radim
[20:33] <OE1FEA> in short word: what happend with STS-4?
[20:33] <OE1FEA> comig home from red cross, tune in and find no signal ... :(
[20:34] <radim_OM2AMR> STS-4 is still alive, but GPS is frozen
[20:34] <OM1ATS> Hello Erwin signal is good try 438.0125
[20:35] <OM1ATS> but GPS is dead :(
[20:35] <radim_OM2AMR> 40 minutes without GPS
[20:35] <OE1FEA> dano, did not receive anything .. only short pieps in this band
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> radim_OM2AMR, can I show you something in compensation of the GPS?
[20:36] <radim_OM2AMR> let's go Lunar :-D
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/x/p/x/5yv7u4-krapdb-xebh/IMG0282.jpeg
[20:36] <OM1ATS> This is weird, I decode STS-4 without problems
[20:37] <radim_OM2AMR> Lunar, nice - second generation of your tracker ?
[20:37] <OE1FEA> 438.0125 USB .... null ... :(
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> yes, Stormdrifter II :)
[20:38] <radim_OM2AMR> :-X
[20:38] <radim_OM2AMR> oops
[20:38] <radim_OM2AMR> :-D
[20:38] <radim_OM2AMR> should be XD
[20:39] <OM1ATS> Erwin, you use Diamond X-50 ?
[20:39] <OE1FEA> yes
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:39] <OE1FEA> SP9 projects I receiver normally ...
[20:41] <OM1ATS> I have relatively strong signal S4-5
[20:42] <OE1FEA> only noise with S0 .... but I hear something unidentifyable in the backgrouns .. WSPR? ;)
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> radim_OM2AMR, two deck design http://s.gullipics.com/image/n/h/b/5yv7u4-kraqln-1sob/IMG0222.jpeg
[20:43] <radim_OM2AMR> oh, nice XD
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :) no more dangling battery packs
[20:46] <radim_OM2AMR> burst
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[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> wb daveake
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[20:55] <daveake> evening LL
[20:55] <daveake> STS-4 broken? Not in flight mode?
[20:56] <Wolfbl> whats about a cross bearing to find sts-4, if gps dont wake up
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[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, http://s.gullipics.com/image/n/h/b/5yv7u4-kraqln-1sob/IMG0222.jpeg have a look if you like
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:58] <daveake> Your new tracker?
[20:58] <daveake> APRS + RTTY?
[20:59] <daveake> Oh one radio
[20:59] <daveake> What's the second gPS/proc for?
[21:01] <radim_OM2AMR> daveake, was in flight mode, but freezes gps
[21:01] <daveake> ok, which gps?
[21:01] <radim_OM2AMR> max6
[21:01] <daveake> OK, I thought you were going to say max7
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[21:02] <daveake> Max6 is normally fine
[21:02] <radim_OM2AMR> yes, but I didn't have time to prepare max7 tracker :-(
[21:02] <radim_OM2AMR> stoped under -20 C
[21:02] <daveake> hmm
[21:03] <radim_OM2AMR> now we have -31C
[21:03] <Upu> hey
[21:03] <daveake> Well hopefully it'll be OK when it warms up
[21:03] <OE1FEA> I will put a body heater in the payload :)
[21:03] <Upu> odd
[21:03] <Upu> not seen a MAX6 freeze up
[21:04] <Upu> power saving code ?
[21:04] <radim_OM2AMR> it was strange flight from the beginning, payload hang on the tree at first :-)
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, that is just recording data in higher frequency to an SD card
[21:04] <radim_OM2AMR> no power saving Upu
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> that idea came up before I heard of the interrupt method
[21:05] <Upu> odd
[21:05] <daveake> LL OK I'd just do that with 1 processor
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> the thing is I had built it when I heard that you can do it in software
[21:05] <daveake> ok
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> which is what I probably do on the next one, along with a proper PCB
[21:07] <eroomde> interrupts are good
[21:07] <eroomde> it's difficult to do things on microcontrollers without them
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:11] <OE1FEA> going QRX ... will be back in 30 mins ..
[21:11] <OE1FEA> no I get some signal ...
[21:11] <OE1FEA> now
[21:12] <OE1FEA> false alarm, no RTTY ...
[21:13] <OE1FEA> AFK
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[21:18] <radim_OM2AMR> we have fix again !
[21:18] <daveake> aha
[21:19] <radim_OM2AMR> defrost successful :-)
[21:20] <qyx_> uf, too much lakes around
[21:22] <qyx_> many :)
[21:22] <radim_OM2AMR> trees or field, nice :-)
[21:23] <qyx_> is it down already?
[21:23] <qyx_> no new updates
[21:24] <radim_OM2AMR> should be down
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[22:20] <SpeedEvil> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/06/22/1840234/introducing-the-nsa-proof-crypto-font hahahhahahha
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[00:00] --- Sun Jun 23 2013