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[06:29] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning :)
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[06:31] <ibanezmatt13> Morning number10
[06:31] <number10> morning ibanezmatt13
[06:33] <ibanezmatt13> In C programming, I can't understand when to use { }. Only because, the book I'm reading seems to do it whenever it feels like such as: while (c == '\n') { but other times it's left as just: while (c == '\n') why is this?
[06:34] <eroomde> { } contains a 'scoped' block of code
[06:34] <ibanezmatt13> what does scoped mean?
[06:35] <number10> you can use {} to define a block of code
[06:35] <eroomde> it lets you group a bunch of commands togather
[06:35] <number10> so..
[06:35] <number10> while (x<10) x=x+1; does just one line in the while
[06:35] <number10> or
[06:36] <number10> while (x<10) { x=x+1; y=y+1;} does the two lines for the while condition
[06:36] <eroomde> you're coming from python where you use tab indentation to denote which chunks of code belong togather, at the same level
[06:36] <ibanezmatt13> http://pastebin.com/yS7y0bKn
[06:37] <eroomde> but C doesn't have any concept like that, tabs and spaces are meaningless (we just do it to make it easier to read, but the compiler doesn't care). so it uses curly brackets to tie stuff together
[06:37] <eroomde> so let's say you had something like:
[06:37] <ibanezmatt13> in that code on the link above it doesn't use any braces
[06:37] <ibanezmatt13> and it looks like it should
[06:38] <number10> so you need to group the commands that you want to execute within the hile loop with { } - as C doesnt take any notice of indentation
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[06:38] <ibanezmatt13> So that program must be incorrect then.
[06:38] <number10> yes it needs the {}
[06:38] <eroomde> yes, that code doesn't look right and i would use curly brackets there for everything in the while loop
[06:38] <ibanezmatt13> I wondered why it didn't work right
[06:39] <ibanezmatt13> Perhaps they do it deliberately
[06:39] <number10> who did the code?
[06:39] <ibanezmatt13> It's the K&R book, and I must say I've learned a lot from it. Really well written generally
[06:39] <ibanezmatt13> what about for loops and if statements?
[06:39] <eroomde> same for *everything* in C
[06:39] <ibanezmatt13> Still need curly braces?
[06:39] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[06:39] <eroomde> yes
[06:39] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[06:40] <eroomde> where you would use indentation in python to group a bunch of lines togather in the same kind of logical 'block', you use curly brackets in C
[06:41] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, ok. It was the lack of consistency of application that confused me, but now that makes a lot of sense. I was thinking to myself, how does it distinguish those lines from those lines? Makes sense now
[06:41] <eroomde> yes, that's a very wierd example
[06:41] <eroomde> there are actually a few bad things in K&R
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[06:42] <eroomde> btw, you don't actually *need* explicity the curly braces for the loops in C
[06:42] <eroomde> but it's considered (this is a holy war issue) bad practice to not use them
[06:43] <ibanezmatt13> Well I think it makes sense to use them because it makes the code looker neater for one and more readable
[06:43] <eroomde> you can, in some circumstances where it's not ambiguous, not use curly braces
[06:43] <eroomde> eg
[06:43] <eroomde> while (descending == True) printf("holy shit!\n");
[06:44] <eroomde> that's just one line ended with one semicolon
[06:44] <eroomde> and it works if you split it over two lines too
[06:44] <eroomde> but it's basically frowned upon
[06:44] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, I think until I've understood C, I'll stick with multiple lines, despite the simplicity of them
[06:44] <ibanezmatt13> Good habit to get into :)
[06:44] <eroomde> yes, and using braces
[06:44] <eroomde> it makes it clearer to other people what the code is doing too
[06:45] <eroomde> which is very importnant
[06:45] <ibanezmatt13> Certainly is
[06:45] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, back to the guide :)
[06:45] <eroomde> you might see references to 'K&R' vs 'One True Brace Style'
[06:45] <eroomde> that kind of thing above is what it is about
[06:45] <ibanezmatt13> ah right ok
[06:45] <eroomde> it's a sort of vim vs emacs style holy-war
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[06:47] <cuddykid> morning all
[06:47] <number10> allthough not relevant to your question - there are some easily made errors when writing C.. one is accidental use of semicolon after a while or for, andother is using = instead of ==
[06:47] <ibanezmatt13> morning :)
[06:47] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, tell me about it :)
[06:47] <ibanezmatt13> http://pastebin.com/YFKTV7S1
[06:47] <eroomde> yes, '==' is a big one
[06:48] <ibanezmatt13> I could never understand what that code was actualy doing because it never worked ^^
[06:48] <eroomde> most compilers will warn you about this now
[06:48] <eroomde> some people do what is called 'yoda conditions' to catch that
[06:48] <ibanezmatt13> never broke out of the loop when I ran it, just kept taking characters
[06:48] <eroomde> so for axample
[06:48] <number10> morning cuddykid - at work this morning so no tracking - unless you laaunch in the afternnoon
[06:48] <eroomde> if (a == 5)
[06:48] <eroomde> fine^
[06:48] <eroomde> if (a = 5) will just make a equal to 5
[06:48] <eroomde> it will assign the value 5 to the variable a
[06:48] <cuddykid> slight mare - we're not on UTC right now are we?
[06:48] <eroomde> so some people do
[06:48] <ibanezmatt13> yes, that's the same in python too
[06:48] <eroomde> if (5 = a)
[06:49] <cuddykid> todays launch really needs to go up at a fairly precise time to get maximum chance of landing in back yard!
[06:49] <number10> and the statement (a = 5) evaluates to true
[06:49] <eroomde> which just makes an error cos you cxan't assign 'a' to 5
[06:49] <eroomde> it's just 5
[06:49] <eroomde> and that's called 'yoda conditions' because if you read it out load you sound like yoda
[06:49] <ibanezmatt13> haha, cool
[06:49] <eroomde> and the compiler will generate an error if you accidently do = instead of ==
[06:50] <ibanezmatt13> http://pastebin.com/YFKTV7S1 I'm not sure why this didn't work for me
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[06:53] <eroomde> 'c = '\t''
[06:53] <eroomde> line 16
[06:53] <cuddykid> off to do a BBC H&W interview
[06:53] <mikestir> what time is your launch?
[06:53] <number10> dont mention space cuddykid
[06:54] <ibanezmatt13> haha eroomde, I'm such an idiot
[06:54] <number10> one of the common errors
[06:54] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: people who've been programming c for 30 years still do that
[06:55] <number10> its easy not to see it when going through code
[06:55] <eroomde> which compiler are you using?
[06:55] <ibanezmatt13> tehy're doing this purposely, I can see.
[06:55] <ibanezmatt13> cc I think it is on Linux
[06:55] <ibanezmatt13> GCC or something
[06:55] <eroomde> yeah, gcc is the gnu compiler
[06:55] <eroomde> it's good
[06:55] <ibanezmatt13> I just complile like 'cc program name' and it forms an 'a.out' executable
[06:56] <eroomde> if you add '-Warn -Werror' to you command line when you use it, it should catch and deliberately fail to compile if you do things like that
[06:56] <eroomde> so
[06:56] <cuddykid> mikestir: around 11-12 more towards 12
[06:56] <eroomde> 'gcc -Warn -Werror sourcecode.c -o foo'
[06:56] <eroomde> -o foo makes the output file be called foo
[06:56] <eroomde> -o being short for 'output'
[06:56] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok, makes sense thanks
[06:56] <eroomde> so then ./foo to run
[06:57] <ibanezmatt13> I'm onto arrays now
[06:58] <mikestir> it's -Wall not -Warn
[06:58] <number10> looks like you are doing well ibanezmatt13
[06:58] <eroomde> you're quoite right
[06:58] <eroomde> i was about to correct myself
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[06:58] <eroomde> the last time i didn't cp some old makefile is probably about 5 years ago :)
[06:59] <ibanezmatt13> It's definitely getting harder - the way of teaching now that I'm stepping through the book
[06:59] <eroomde> it gets easier though too
[06:59] <eroomde> as you start to use it
[06:59] <eroomde> in anger
[07:00] <eroomde> you'll also see why people like python, having done an nmea parser in python, when you try and do an nmea parse in C!
[07:02] <ibanezmatt13> sounds like it's fun :)
[07:03] <ibanezmatt13> http://pastebin.com/NXMLL4Zr This is the next code in the tutorial to count the number of occurrences of each digit, of white space characters (blank, tab,
[07:03] <ibanezmatt13> newline), and of all other characters using arrays. I'm not moving any further forward until I understand, which I don't :\ These for i bits are strange
[07:04] <eroomde> so in python, you might do something like
[07:05] <eroomde> for i in range(10): blah
[07:05] <eroomde> range(10) makes a list with 10 items in in, the numbers 0 - 9
[07:05] <ibanezmatt13> I get that part, I guess I just can't work out why it's being done
[07:06] <eroomde> oh right ok
[07:06] <eroomde> oh yes, array initialisation
[07:06] <eroomde> it's making all the entries in your ndigits array to be 0
[07:06] <ibanezmatt13> why?
[07:07] <eroomde> because you have to explicity do that, because there's no guarantee as to what the initial values will be when you declare an array
[07:07] <ibanezmatt13> So you must set the value for the array before you do anything with it
[07:07] <eroomde> int ndigit[10] just says 'put asside 10 ints worth of space please'
[07:08] <eroomde> and the compiler/operating system will say 'ok, well we'll put that in this bit of ram over here'
[07:08] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[07:08] <eroomde> which might previously have been used for a youtube video and have any old crap in it
[07:08] <eroomde> 'ndigit' is actually just an address in some ram
[07:08] <eroomde> ndigit[0] is the same address as ndigit
[07:08] <ibanezmatt13> I get that, what are lines 11/12 doing in that for loop? I can't seem to work out why they're doing that
[07:10] <eroomde> so
[07:10] <eroomde> bear with
[07:10] <eroomde> ndigit[1] is also just an address
[07:10] <eroomde> it's the same thing as saying 'give me the int localted at address (ndigit + 1)'
[07:10] <ibanezmatt13> I understand that part
[07:10] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[07:11] <eroomde> so, each of these are just addresses. and they might have any old crap at each address
[07:11] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[07:11] <eroomde> so the for loop on line 11 and 12 is just saying 'go to each address, and put a 0 at it'
[07:12] <ibanezmatt13> are right, so to set it up ready to have data being stored and retrieved from it? Initialising it?
[07:12] <eroomde> you could do it manually and say 'ndigit[0] = 0; ndigit[1] = 0' etc
[07:12] <eroomde> but that would be tiresome
[07:12] <eroomde> especially for big arrays
[07:12] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, so the for loop goes through each part of the array and assigns it to 0 in one go
[07:12] <eroomde> yes
[07:13] <eroomde> so i will go for 0 to 9 there
[07:13] <ibanezmatt13> I see
[07:13] <eroomde> and so it will set ndigit[0] to ndigit[9] all to be 0
[07:13] <ibanezmatt13> That makes a whole lot of sense
[07:13] <eroomde> so you have to make sure that the for loop does it the right number of times
[07:13] <eroomde> what they have done there can be a bit fragile
[07:14] <ibanezmatt13> Lines 15/16, that c-'0' notation. What's all that about? Is that calling the value of hte 0 element of the array?
[07:14] <eroomde> it might be better to define a constant called ARRAY_SIZE
[07:14] <eroomde> eg
[07:14] <eroomde> #define ARRAY_SIZE = 10
[07:14] <eroomde> then make line 8
[07:14] <eroomde> int ndigit[ARRAY_SIZE]
[07:14] <eroomde> and line 11
[07:14] <eroomde> for (i = 0; i < ARRAY_SIZE; i++)
[07:14] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[07:14] <eroomde> that way if you change ARRAY_SIZE, they both change
[07:15] <ibanezmatt13> good idea
[07:15] <eroomde> rather than you having to remember to change both if you change one
[07:15] <eroomde> try changing just one, eg make it i < 11 on line 11
[07:15] <eroomde> you will probably get a segfault, which is a very common thing in C
[07:16] <ibanezmatt13> ok thanks
[07:16] <eroomde> and is often because c doesn't stop you running off the end of things like strings and arrays, which can do really bad things
[07:16] <ibanezmatt13> end up reading data from Youtube videos? :)
[07:17] <ibanezmatt13> Lines 15/16, that c-'0' notation. What's all that about? Is that calling the value of the 0 element of the array?
[07:17] <eroomde> basically, C will let you cut yourself, whereas higher level langauges often have more built-in safer things, like python, where you could just say 'for i in ndigit: i = 0' which will automatically stop the loop when you reach the end of ndigit
[07:17] <ibanezmatt13> I see
[07:18] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: or anything. just whatver happens to be in in that ram. just random garbage
[07:18] <ibanezmatt13> ah right I see
[07:18] <ibanezmatt13> brb breakfast
[07:20] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: i can see that might be a bit confusing
[07:20] <eroomde> you should look at a table of ascii characters
[07:20] <eroomde> difficult to explain if you're away
[07:22] <eroomde> but basically have a look at http://www.asciitable.com/index/asciifull.gif
[07:22] <eroomde> and note that '0' is not the same as 0
[07:22] <eroomde> one is a character in the alphabet, the other is the number 0
[07:23] <eroomde> but in ascii, which maps alphabet characters to numbers, '0' is number 48
[07:23] <eroomde> '1' is 49
[07:23] <eroomde> '2' is 50 etc
[07:24] <eroomde> so lines 15 and 16 are about putting the numbers of 0-9 that occur in the text into an array
[07:26] <ibanezmatt13> hmm
[07:26] <eroomde> and so line 16 is saying that if c = '0' which C (the language) sees as 48, and you want to put it into ndigit[0], you should put it into ndigit[c - '0'] which is the same as '0' - '0' or 48 - 48
[07:27] <eroomde> which is 0
[07:27] <eroomde> so it still gets put into ndigit[0]
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[07:27] <eroomde> if c = '1', then you put that into c - '0' which is '1' - '0' which is 49 - 48
[07:27] <eroomde> which is 1
[07:27] <eroomde> so it goes into ndigit[1]
[07:27] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "[UKHAS] HABHub/Spacenear.Us"
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[07:28] <ibanezmatt13> that sort of makes sense
[07:28] <eroomde> http://www.asciitable.com/index/asciifull.gif
[07:29] <eroomde> it might seem a bit odd to be subtracting a letter from something and getting anumber
[07:29] <fsphil> for i in ndigit: i = 0 <-- this would work in python? I'd have thought i was assigned the value rather than a reference to the array item?
[07:30] <eroomde> nope, i is the element in this case
[07:30] <fsphil> that's handy
[07:30] <eroomde> no wait
[07:31] <eroomde> i am possible thinking of something else
[07:31] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[07:32] <eroomde> i am
[07:33] <eroomde> i have been trying to write my own language recently, it's made my language knowledge very leaky
[07:34] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: but are you happy enough with the ascii thing?
[07:34] <ibanezmatt13> oh right, cool
[07:34] <ibanezmatt13> I understand why letters have numbers yes, but I don't understand the code still :\
[07:34] <eroomde> which bit?
[07:35] <ibanezmatt13> err, most of it to be honest I'm afriad...
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[07:37] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde, I have to go out now
[07:37] <eroomde> yep, and i to work
[07:37] <ibanezmatt13> But I'll be back later today and I'll try to work it out, if not, I'll let you know
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[07:37] <eroomde> keep thinking bout the code examples
[07:37] <ibanezmatt13> Sure
[07:37] <ibanezmatt13> Have a good day
[07:37] <eroomde> pencil and paper manually going through each line can help
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[07:38] <fsphil> I still remember learning C, it was tricky. partly because the guide I had was for C++
[07:40] <eroomde> i can imagine that would hurt
[07:40] <number10> I must learn pythn - I occasionally read a book - but I need to set my self a task to solve
[07:40] <number10> python
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[07:42] <fsphil> it did, the whole cout << thing really confused me
[07:42] <fsphil> still does tbh
[07:43] <fsphil> it's an ugly syntax
[07:43] <eroomde> yes very
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[07:44] <mfa298> I've never got to grips with cout / cin
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[07:52] <cuddykid> back
[07:55] <cuddykid> could someone change the spacenear wording if poss?
[07:55] <cuddykid> and clear it :) thanks
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[07:56] <fsphil> what time is launch?
[07:57] <fsphil> G8DHE/M-3
[07:57] <fsphil> you're swimming in the south atlantic :)
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[07:59] <mfa298> sounds like he should be /MM rather than /M
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[08:00] <fsphil> cuddykid: frequency, callsign and time pls :)
[08:03] <daveake> BBC, channel 101, and "soon" isn't it ?
[08:03] <fsphil> 1 on freeview :)
[08:03] <daveake> Oy, being pedantic is my job :p
[08:03] <fsphil> haha
[08:03] <x-f> 434.3, LAB, "off the ground by mid-day"
[08:04] <fsphil> close enough
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[08:07] <cuddykid> fsphil: sorry, was having breakfast :)
[08:07] <fsphil> mmmm
[08:07] <fsphil> bacon?
[08:07] <cuddykid> fsphil: 434.3
[08:07] <cuddykid> fsphil: just cereal unfortunately!
[08:08] <cuddykid> callsign $$LAB
[08:08] <fsphil> ta, all updated
[08:08] <cuddykid> time - probably around 12:00
[08:08] <daveake> cereal? It's all going to go horribly wrong ... :)
[08:08] <fsphil> lol
[08:08] <cuddykid> could someone confirm that 'UTC' on the predictor is actually UTC?! .. as it sets time by default to BST
[08:08] <cuddykid> today each minute makes a difference haah
[08:09] <fsphil> cuddykid: what parameters for the live predictor?
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[08:09] <cuddykid> fsphil: 5m/s ascent
[08:09] <cuddykid> let me get burst alt
[08:09] <cuddykid> I think around 30500, but, one sec
[08:10] <cuddykid> yeah, stick 30,500 in please :)
[08:10] <cuddykid> though, this is pawan& probably more like 23km!
[08:10] <fsphil> third time lucky
[08:10] <fsphil> or am I thinking of someone else. have you done two flights with these before?
[08:10] <cuddykid> 1 flight
[08:11] <cuddykid> and it burst about 23km :)
[08:11] <cuddykid> when it should have easily gone over 30
[08:11] <cuddykid> need a neck lift of around 2750 today
[08:11] <x-f> cuddykid, as much as i understand, predictor takes input in UTC, but displays times on the map in your local time zone
[08:12] <x-f> if you check the CSV output, those timestamps are in UTC
[08:12] <fsphil> how does it know?
[08:12] <cuddykid> x-f: ah, good, thanks :)
[08:12] <x-f> JS knows
[08:12] <cuddykid> yep
[08:12] <cuddykid> that will be it
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[08:13] <cuddykid> yeah, so this has to go up around 11:30/12
[08:14] <cuddykid> and really needs to be >=5 ascent rate
[08:14] <cuddykid> looks to land about 13km away now on latest winds
[08:15] <fsphil> nice short drive
[08:15] <cuddykid> yep, should be nice for a change
[08:15] <cuddykid> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=076d36e42fdaab6eda0f576dc6ec1a30dcf588be
[08:15] <daveake> Yeah, looks like my flight this w/e will be off as the winds aren't nearly as kind
[08:16] <daveake> Choice of Stansted on Sat or Heathrow on Sun
[08:16] <cuddykid> I literally have a couple of hour gap today in which to launch - yday, landing in north wales, tomorrow in nottingham!
[08:16] <cuddykid> on that note, I have a few things still to do! bb soon
[08:16] <daveake> Well, when it's changeable the worry is that the predicted winds only need to be out by a few hours and your prediction is stuffed
[08:17] <daveake> and that happens
[08:17] <fsphil> yea the predictor can be wrong
[08:17] <daveake> For tomorrow, although there's a period of several hours where it's safe, I don't know when those hours will actually be IYSWIM
[08:18] Action: fsphil googles IYSWIM.
[08:18] <fsphil> I see
[08:18] <daveake> Just see the changes tomorrow http://hourly.upuaut.net/
[08:19] <HixWork> Predictions have a habit of letting you down in mountaineering http://goo.gl/8MQjo
[08:19] <fsphil> it's very changable here today too
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[08:19] <fsphil> if I launch at 11:00 UTC it lands nearby
[08:19] <fsphil> at 14:00 it lands in belfast
[08:19] <daveake> hah
[08:19] <daveake> I've been caught out by this kind of thing before
[08:20] <fsphil> and any time in between it lands in the giant lake badly placed in the middle of NI
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[08:21] <HixWork> daveake, if you launch at 05:00 i could problably catch it for you :)
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[08:21] <daveake> hah
[08:21] <daveake> However notam is from 08:00
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[08:23] <cuddykid> http://panther.acudworth.co.uk/hourly
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[08:23] <cuddykid> trying to catch in around 12 :)
[08:24] <F6AGV> morning all
[08:24] <HixWork> I'm assumming NOTAMS are easier for night flights due to less airtraffic
[08:24] <Phil_M0DNY> pong UpuWork
[08:24] <fsphil> morning F6AGV
[08:24] <Phil_M0DNY> (foundation exams)
[08:26] <UpuWork> hey Phil
[08:27] <UpuWork> just had this mad idea
[08:27] <Phil_M0DNY> Yes I am a registered instructor
[08:27] <UpuWork> which I'll speak to the RSGB about letting people do the Foundation exam at the conference
[08:27] <UpuWork> is that viable ?
[08:27] <Phil_M0DNY> Yes I think so!
[08:27] <cuddykid> that's a great idea
[08:27] <cuddykid> I'd be up for that
[08:28] <cuddykid> probably fail though :P
[08:28] <UpuWork> lol doubt it
[08:28] <daveake> That's quite tricky
[08:28] <fsphil> we'll be around to tease you if you do
[08:28] <cuddykid> provided fets don't appear on it
[08:28] <daveake> lol
[08:28] <daveake> no FETS
[08:28] <UpuWork> is that something you can inquire about Phil or should I speak to the RSGB ?
[08:28] <Phil_M0DNY> As a registered instructor I'd have to do all the practical bits, and someone else (they don't even have to be licensed) has to be lead invigilator.
[08:29] <UpuWork> PM
[08:29] <mikestir> UpuWork: You got a boxed up HABamp in?
[08:30] <UpuWork> no mikestir but can make one up fairly quickly
[08:30] <daveake> Those who pass get to buy the beers. Anyone who fails just gets teased :)
[08:30] <cn8dn> raspberry soft balloon
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[08:31] <mikestir> UpuWork: does it work well? Frequency stability aside, does it render an ezcap a reasonable alternative to a proper rx?
[08:31] <UpuWork> well
[08:32] <UpuWork> it makes them actually work :)
[08:32] <UpuWork> never as good as say a FCD
[08:32] <UpuWork> I use a HABAmp in front of the FCD as well
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[08:32] <UpuWork> but yes they do work
[08:32] <UpuWork> don't take my work for it quite a few people use them
[08:33] <mikestir> hey I picked up the launch on Sunday using an unfiltered, unamped ezcap and an X30 propped up on boxes in the loft ;)
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[08:34] <mikestir> I didn't think that was too bad going!
[08:34] <fsphil> aye
[08:34] <UpuWork> not at all
[08:34] <UpuWork> it may mean you get more packets
[08:35] <UpuWork> and be able to decode weaker signals
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[08:35] <mikestir> Well I think it's worth having one as a masthead anyway, because the installation is likely to require a fairly long downlead
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[08:41] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Morning all
[08:41] <mikestir> UpuWork: ordered and paid
[08:42] <UpuWork> thanks mikestir I'll go see if I can get that made up and tested for you shortly
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[08:44] <F6AGV> Morning Geoff
[08:44] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "[UKHAS] Conference + Foundation Exam"
[08:44] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Morning all
[08:46] <m3eav> morning
[08:48] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Internet is a bit slow here at the moment, better check the state of my SIM!
[08:49] <fsphil> Geoff-G8DHE_: your station is in the south atlantic ocean on spacenear
[08:50] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Oh right its probably dropped the current site location!
[08:52] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Conference + Foundation Exam"
[08:52] <fsphil> I can do that bit where they talk to someone on the radio -- I'd be more nervious than them so might help :)
[08:54] <daveake> it does ime :)
[08:54] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Right that's the SIM sorted for the day! Now where in the world am I
[08:55] <Geoff-G8DHE_> The virtual me is at home and the real me is Stourbridge, now where else am I
[08:56] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Oh yes I'm in the roraing 4's!
[08:56] <Geoff-G8DHE_> *roaring
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[09:13] <cuddykid> packing up for launch site - catch you all later :)
[09:13] <cuddykid> hope the rain stays off& looking v threatening atm!
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[09:23] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Saturday 22nd or
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[09:42] <Leyhart> Hi, I ordered the NTX2- UHF Narrow Band FM Transmitter Frequency 458.700MHz have I ordered the wrong one or is this ok in the UK?
[09:42] <HixWork> you want 434MHZ
[09:43] <Leyhart> ouch, looks like I have wasted £29
[09:44] <eroomde> £29!?
[09:44] <eroomde> when you have that conversation with upu any second now, you'll be upset
[09:44] <radim_OM2AMR> oh, you should try Upu's shop first, I did same mistake first time :-)
[09:44] <daveake> On the plus side, he's about to learn he doesn't have to spend another £29
[09:45] <Leyhart> Radiometrix £16.56 + £7.50 Delivery + VAT
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[09:45] <Leyhart> Do you have the link for Upu's shop
[09:45] <Leyhart> that made me laugh Dave
[09:46] <Babs> Morning all - just logged on. Is HABE-lab still going up today?
[09:46] <eroomde> Leyhart: talk to UpuWork
[09:46] <eroomde> summon him
[09:46] <daveake> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=71_63
[09:46] <eroomde> pm him before buying online
[09:46] <daveake> And don't buy till you've spoken to him
[09:47] <daveake> Babs Yes
[09:47] <eroomde> Babs: it's still happening apparently
[09:47] <eroomde> we are like the messenges of identicalness daveake
[09:47] <eroomde> excxept i have a thinkpad
[09:47] <eroomde> so im different
[09:47] <Leyhart> ok, thank you, can you recommend a beginners receiver so I don't make a similar mistake with that?
[09:47] <Brace> eroomde: say UpuWork three times into a mirror?
[09:47] <daveake> So do I
[09:47] <eroomde> oh
[09:47] <daveake> But not in front of me
[09:47] <eroomde> hmm
[09:47] <fsphil> is it not apple people who are "different"?
[09:47] <daveake> It's a web server
[09:47] <eroomde> i have one of those two
[09:48] <fsphil> really different then
[09:48] <eroomde> i have one laptop for the coffee shop and another for the electronics lab
[09:48] <daveake> Only the former has java on it
[09:48] <eroomde> and a windows craptop for some f*cking abnoxious proprietary datalogger we have to use
[09:48] <fsphil> we don't speak about those
[09:48] <Babs> Thanks daveake, eroomde- Its a shame this wasn't found a few weeks ago http://io9.com/5979854/bacteria-and-fungi-living-30000-feet-above-the-earth-could-be-affecting-the-weather - tbh haven't got above a fan blowing air across some sellotape (or if we are being really funky, some aerogel) but this would have been a cool experiment to take on there
[09:49] <eroomde> i have actually designed a replacement for this datalogging thing which can be sensible and work in linux
[09:49] <eroomde> you could talk to oliver de peyer about high altitude bioprospecting
[09:49] <eroomde> but you shouldn't
[09:49] <eroomde> but the thrust of his thesis is that no one can adequately prove that it didn;t actually just get contaminated on the ground
[09:49] <fsphil> it's only 9km up
[09:51] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: I guess the gold standard would be a stick-out sampler that heats to 200C or so in flight.
[09:52] <Babs> eroomde - what about medical grade tape on a spool (made in a clean environment) and only spooled out at certain times on the way up (a bit like how onboard F1 cameras keep their lenses clean)
[09:52] <jcoxon> fsphil, been looking to the iss stuff again
[09:52] <Babs> hmm. probably still not that clean even in a clean room
[09:52] <fsphil> jcoxon: got a plan?
[09:52] <Babs> "cleanish" room
[09:52] <jcoxon> i think i need to improve the output from the avr
[09:52] <jcoxon> even room to room i'm not getting every decode
[09:53] <fsphil> try adding a bit more preamble
[09:53] <Babs> those dudes who collected stuff out of the back of a comet with aerogel presumably got around the problem
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[09:53] <Babs> even if their recover efforts went a bit awry
[09:53] <jcoxon> fsphil, how?
[09:54] <fsphil> the comet one worked fine, it was the solar partical one that crashed I think
[09:54] <jcoxon> fsphil, https://github.com/jamescoxon/Eurus/blob/master/2mTracker/Combo_new/Combo_new.ino
[09:54] <fsphil> jcoxon: one sec, got a github link handy?
[09:54] <fsphil> ah, read my mind
[09:54] <fsphil> #define PREAMBLE_BYTES (25)
[09:54] <Babs> *Babs googles
[09:55] <Babs> fsphil wins.
[09:55] <jcoxon> go to 50?
[09:55] <fsphil> I think so, just double checking
[09:57] <jcoxon> testing now
[09:57] <fsphil> yea
[09:57] <fsphil> I really need to comment that better
[09:58] <fsphil> rest bytes are how long it'll wait for the next packet before turning off the radio
[09:58] <fsphil> preamble is a kind of forced rest
[09:59] <jcoxon> also what circuitry would you expect between the avr and the radio?
[09:59] <fsphil> for the hx1 nothing as it has a low pass filter built in, but a proper radio ... it might need one
[10:00] <UpuWork> ping Leyhart
[10:00] <jcoxon> fsphil, yeah thats what i'm thinking
[10:00] <jcoxon> online people suggest a 1uF cap
[10:01] <fsphil> what crystal are you using?
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[10:02] <jcoxon> well i've been using a 8mhz
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[10:03] <fsphil> pwm will be 31.250 khz, the LPF should be lower than that
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[10:04] <fsphil> 5khz would be fine for ax.25 at 1200
[10:05] <fsphil> yea, 0.1uF and a 330ohm resistor
[10:05] <chrisstubbs> Is cuddykid going ahead today?
[10:05] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host109-156-28-230.range109-156.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:06] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Yup he is onsite
[10:06] <fsphil> T minus 54 minutes
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[10:06] <Maxell> -ish
[10:07] <jcoxon> fsphil, i can do 16mhz 5v if that would be better
[10:07] <Ugi> Mornin' guys - everything seems to be going a bit mad for me today.
[10:07] <Ugi> Any sign of cuddykid's launch?
[10:07] <fsphil> it probably wouldn't make much difference jcoxon
[10:07] <Maxell> Ugi: 12:06:21 < fsphil> T minus 54 minutes
[10:07] <Maxell> 12:06:30 -!- Ugi [5004924d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #highaltitude
[10:08] S_Mark (~anonymous@ictmr.pndsl.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[10:08] <fsphil> moral of the story, always join 10 seconds earlier
[10:08] <Maxell> like S_Mark just did :)
[10:09] <S_Mark> lol did i miss something?
[10:09] <Ugi> I _was_ joined 10 seconds (and indeed minutes) earlier, only something went a bit strange.
[10:09] <Maxell> S_Mark: 12:07:41 < Maxell> Ugi: 12:06:21 < fsphil> T minus 54 minutes
[10:09] <Maxell> 12:07:41 < Maxell> 12:06:30 -!- Ugi [5004924d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #highaltitude
[10:09] <Maxell> 12:08:00 -!- S_Mark [~anonymous@ictmr.pndsl.co.uk] has joined #highaltitude
[10:10] <fsphil> this could go on for a while
[10:10] <Maxell> Yes. End it now.
[10:10] <Maxell> Get some sort of IRC bouncer.
[10:10] <fsphil> there's an online log already
[10:10] <fsphil> well, if the bots are working
[10:10] <griffonbot> Received email: matt darley "Re: [UKHAS] Conference + Foundation Exam"
[10:10] <griffonbot> Received email: Matt Holmes "Re: [UKHAS] Conference + Foundation Exam"
[10:10] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Toombes "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Saturday 22nd or
[10:10] <griffonbot> Received email: Radim Mutina "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - STS4(3) Saturday 22/06/13"
[10:11] <fsphil> see
[10:11] <Maxell> Eek. Public logs.
[10:11] <fsphil> yes, don't insult your boss here. mine's a right twat and is probably reading them
[10:11] <fsphil> (joking)
[10:11] <Maxell> Sup, NSA?
[10:11] <fsphil> haha
[10:12] <fsphil> they don't need the bots
[10:12] <Maxell> I wonder if they would track RF too. "wow check it out Bob another HAB from the UK"
[10:12] <Maxell> Amazing!
[10:13] <fsphil> they probably know where my missing payload is
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[10:15] <Phil_M0DNY> If only they'd install dl-fldigi, our receivers would be redundant!
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[10:22] <Babs> ukhas
[10:22] <Leyhart> Sending up a Pi, what uBLOX should I be using please? http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_60
[10:24] <Phil_M0DNY> Leyhart: You want 3.3V IO, as the Pi header is 3.3V.
[10:24] <Phil_M0DNY> And go for the larger, sarantel antenna.
[10:24] <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51
[10:24] <UpuWork> that one Leyhart
[10:24] <Leyhart> Thanks guys
[10:26] <fsphil> ah I2C is broken out
[10:26] <daveake> yup
[10:26] <daveake> UpuWork You need to add "Buy this one for the Pi" to that page :)
[10:26] <UpuWork> lol
[10:26] <daveake> I've been asked a few times :)
[10:27] <UpuWork> I will amend the description
[10:27] <UpuWork> "Buy this one for the Pi but really use an Arduino Pro instead"
[10:27] <daveake> lol
[10:27] <daveake> Pro ???
[10:27] <UpuWork> err
[10:27] <UpuWork> Mini
[10:27] <daveake> oh
[10:27] <daveake> my mistake
[10:27] <fsphil> hey to be fair to the Pi, it's handling it well :)
[10:27] <daveake> Yeah Mini Pro
[10:28] <daveake> Indeed 6 Pi flights by me and it's not skipped a beat
[10:28] <fsphil> UpuWork: did you use the timepulse for the ntp server?
[10:30] <mikestir> UpuWork: thanks for the quick turnaround on the habamp!
[10:31] <UpuWork> welcome
[10:31] <UpuWork> yes fsphil just making up a more permanent cable for it now
[10:31] <fsphil> does the ntpd software support that directly?
[10:32] <UpuWork> you have to recompile ntpd and kernel
[10:32] <fsphil> aaah yes
[10:32] <UpuWork> http://ntpi.openchaos.org/pps_pi/
[10:32] <fsphil> remember now
[10:32] <mfa298> Add one to the store as for the Pi and put on a Pi markup
[10:38] M0CJM_Neil (~neil@host86-180-86-90.range86-180.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
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[10:40] <M0CJM_Neil> anyone about?
[10:40] <SpeedEvil> ?
[10:40] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Na
[10:40] <M0CJM_Neil> Ahh didnt think so :-)
[10:41] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE\M
[10:42] <M0CJM_Neil> Are we still set for a launch?
[10:42] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Thta's why I'm sat here ;-)
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[10:42] <M0CJM_Neil> just cant see the flight listed in fl-digi
[10:43] <fsphil> it should be
[10:43] <m3eav> i hav erit in Fldigi ok
[10:43] <fsphil> dl-fldigi yea?
[10:43] <m3eav> have it
[10:43] <fsphil> regular fldigi won't have it
[10:44] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> HABE Lab:LAB
[10:44] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> refresh?
[10:44] <m3eav> yteah dl-fldigi is showing it okay here
[10:44] <m3eav> restart program maybe?>
[10:44] <M0CJM_Neil> oki# I will refresh. Habe flkight yeah?
[10:44] <M0CJM_Neil> flight
[10:45] <fsphil> yep
[10:45] <M0CJM_Neil> cool, got i tnow
[10:45] <M0CJM_Neil> it
[10:45] homewld (51982950@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[10:45] <M0CJM_Neil> I think the batteries in my wireless keyboard are giving up!
[10:46] <fsphil> I've never trusted wireless keyboards :)
[10:46] <fsphil> don't like entering passwords into them
[10:47] <cm13g09> and there's the person who stole my M0 callsign :P
[10:47] <cm13g09> I wanted M0CJM :P
[10:47] <M0CJM_Neil> Well, theyare very annoying when letters keep disappearing to!!
[10:47] <M0CJM_Neil> You wanted M0CJM?
[10:47] <cm13g09> (when I go and get my full)
[10:47] <m3eav> Aliens intercepted my keyboard fsphil
[10:48] <m3eav> :-)
[10:48] <cm13g09> M0CJM_Neil: Ny initials are CJM!
[10:48] <cm13g09> *My
[10:48] <M0CJM_Neil> Oh dear I am sorry, it was just issued to me in order, I never requested it :-)P
[10:48] <cm13g09> lol
[10:48] <cm13g09> fair enough
[10:49] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Ah ha he's on the map
[10:49] <cm13g09> I never thought that I'd bump into the person who had it....
[10:49] <M0CJM_Neil> Had it since 1999
[10:49] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[10:49] <M0CJM_Neil> I know this room is mad, was on here last weekend and a guy was in here who lives just round the corner!
[10:49] <cm13g09> lol
[10:50] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> and the Sun haas come out
[10:50] <cm13g09> it's OK, now I'm back from uni, I'm probably about 10 miles of chrisstubbs' launch site...
[10:51] <cm13g09> small world!
[10:51] <mfa298> not sure it's a small world, but certainly a small country
[10:52] <cm13g09> mfa298: lol
[10:52] <M0CJM_Neil> Yeah small country I agree there!
[10:53] <mfa298> although eroomde did try doing the birthday problem on towns/villages and there was a reasonable probability of getting some duplicates in the coutry with the number of people on here
[10:53] <cm13g09> hahah
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[10:58] <fsphil> sunshine? unpossible!
[10:58] <S_Mark> we have a payload
[10:58] <S_Mark> lab
[10:58] <S_Mark> maplab
[10:59] <S_Mark> this one not predicted to go very far is it?
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[11:00] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Up & Down
[11:00] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> He's hoping ;-)
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[11:04] <g6gzh> I think the prediction is http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=076d36e42fdaab6eda0f576dc6ec1a30dcf588be
[11:05] <Ugi> cm13g09: You must live close to me if you are in CM13 - I'm in CM15!
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[11:06] <cm13g09> not in cm13
[11:06] <cm13g09> :P
[11:06] <cm13g09> cm13g09 was my Uni username....
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[11:06] <cm13g09> just so happens, that I *do* live in a CM postcode :P
[11:07] <Ugi> Ah. CM13 is a Chelmsford PC and that's where christstubs lives...
[11:07] <Ugi> cm13 could be a cambridge userid
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[11:07] <Ugi> I was crg11
[11:08] <Randomskk> cambridge crsids are all letters then numbers
[11:08] <Randomskk> looks more like soton?
[11:08] <cm13g09> Randomskk: well identified :P
[11:08] <Randomskk> :P
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[11:08] <cm13g09> I was @soton.ac.uk.... I am no longer
[11:08] <cm13g09> well...
[11:08] <cm13g09> we'll find out in about 2 houts
[11:09] <cm13g09> *hours
[11:09] <Randomskk> hehe
[11:09] <Randomskk> hoping to stay on for a PhD or something?
[11:09] <Ugi> sorry - misunderstood - I read it as cm13 userid. Ho Hum. What is Soton?
[11:09] <Randomskk> you're not the only person here waiting for their final result from soton :P
[11:09] <cm13g09> Ugi: Soton = So'ton = Southampton
[11:09] <Ugi> gotcha
[11:09] <cm13g09> Randomskk: no - I'm escaping
[11:10] <Randomskk> hehe
[11:11] <cm13g09> Escaping back to Essex
[11:11] <cm13g09> and going to write python for a living
[11:12] <Randomskk> oh happy
[11:12] <Randomskk> what's the python to do?
[11:13] <g6gzh> UpuWork: order 714 just arrived, thanks.
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[11:14] <cm13g09> Randomskk: Customer Relational Managementy things
[11:14] <Randomskk> cool
[11:15] <cm13g09> but I have a feeling I'm going to end up doing sys-adminy things as well
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[11:21] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Ah we have signa;
[11:22] Action: g6gzh turns up the volume
[11:23] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> 434.301 s the center
[11:23] <UpuWork> thx g6gzh
[11:23] <schoppenhauer> hello. who is the person again that will start a balloon in deuerling tomorrow? [calls himself "mclane" in the announcement mail]
[11:23] Nick change: UpuWork -> Upu_M0UPU
[11:24] <Upu_M0UPU> he's not online at the moment schoppenhauer
[11:24] <schoppenhauer> Upu_M0UPU: ok. thx.
[11:24] <Upu_M0UPU> but he's likely to come on at some point
[11:24] <schoppenhauer> well, the main question would be that ... there will probably be storms tomorrow ...
[11:24] <Upu_M0UPU> it probably won't affect the launch
[11:24] <schoppenhauer> k
[11:24] <Upu_M0UPU> goes way over storms
[11:25] <Upu_M0UPU> as long as its not too windy on the ground
[11:25] <schoppenhauer> at least yesterday evening it was windy.
[11:25] <Upu_M0UPU> they managed to launch balloons in Hurricane Sandy
[11:25] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Um strange sounded like reboot
[11:25] <schoppenhauer> lol
[11:25] <Upu_M0UPU> bit too windy for my liking though
[11:26] <daveake> up
[11:26] <g6gzh> signal
[11:26] <M0CJM_Neil> nowt here yet
[11:26] <g6gzh> shift about 450
[11:26] <schoppenhauer> hm. I am not sure whether I can manage to go to regensburg this early tomorrow anyway. Just want to know how probable it is that it starts.
[11:27] <g6gzh> still below horizon
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[11:27] <Upu_M0UPU> keep an eye on the mailing list and hang about here
[11:27] <Upu_M0UPU> I can see it
[11:28] <Upu_M0UPU> this has a proper 1/4 wave on it ?
[11:28] <M0CJM_Neil> think its just coming though
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[11:29] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> I think so
[11:29] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Ah another restart
[11:29] <Ugi> cuddykid said this one had a 1/4 wave on it
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[11:30] <M0CJM_Neil> getting green telemetry now
[11:30] <g6gzh> it's a nice signal, not strong but no fading
[11:30] <Ugi> does the tracker get confused of the transmitter restarts and begins transmitting at sentence No 1 again?
[11:30] <cuddykid> how's the signal?
[11:30] <m3eav> nothinig at Portland yet
[11:30] <g6gzh> cuddykid: good here in Cambs
[11:31] <cuddykid> good stuff :)
[11:31] <Upu_M0UPU> Geoff may have RFM22B restart code in
[11:31] <Upu_M0UPU> if its every 20 lines
[11:31] <cuddykid> yes
[11:31] <cuddykid> it does
[11:31] <cuddykid> Upu_M0UPU: it's rev 3 (the latest) :)
[11:31] <cuddykid> running mostly your code - hacked a little :)
[11:32] <Upu_M0UPU> lol
[11:32] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> I think he has its clear shut off freq. jumps and then restarts back on the roriginal freq!
[11:32] <Upu_M0UPU> basically if it dies its Upu's fault
[11:32] <cuddykid> haha
[11:32] <Maxell> Pfew. Just in time.
[11:32] <Ugi> Good to have someone to blame!
[11:33] <Maxell> Dial is 343.3 ish?
[11:33] <Upu_M0UPU> 434.301
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[11:34] <M0CJM_Neil> I am on 434.301.71 puts the centre frequency about 1400 Hz
[11:35] <Upu_M0UPU> signal fine cuddykid
[11:35] <Maxell> ah, 434.30x is fine.
[11:35] <Upu_M0UPU> not even had to play with the FCD gain
[11:35] <Upu_M0UPU> novel
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[11:36] <Maxell> Oh, I just keep tuner autogain for rtlsdr dongle.
[11:36] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Its drifted alittle high since appearing but not much
[11:36] <Maxell> And it doesnt aprear to be zapped by static
[11:36] <griffonbot> Received email: Chris Atherton "Re: [UKHAS] Conference + Foundation Exam"
[11:37] junderwood (~John@host86-174-55-61.range86-174.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[11:38] <junderwood> Hmm. Who set the banner on Spacenear.us? The payload name seems to be close but that's about all :)
[11:38] <M0CJM_Neil> signal constantly drifting upwards
[11:39] <cuddykid> good stuff
[11:39] <junderwood> Ah. It's been changed since I opened the page this morning
[11:39] <junderwood> The predicted path is as crazy as the one we did a couple of weeks ago
[11:40] <fsphil> twas me
[11:40] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Just seeing it back in Sussex as well now
[11:41] <HixWork> Hurrah, IMU board ready for hackvana http://i.imgur.com/Fevo7rf.png
[11:42] <m3eav> just getting it in portland, no decode yet
[11:43] <M0CJM_Neil> cuddykid You got an email addy? Can send you a short video of the radio decoding down here in Basingstoke
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[11:44] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> INtriguing dips in freq. just before it restarts ?
[11:44] <Upu_M0UPU> just the voltage stablising
[11:45] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> About 3-4 seconds before the restart!
[11:46] <Upu_M0UPU> I wouldn't worry about it :)
[11:47] <cuddykid> M0CJM_Neil: adam at acudworth.co.uk :)
[11:47] <cuddykid> packing up now - will be back online later - thanks for tracking everyone
[11:47] <M0CJM_Neil> cuddykid Onb its way to you
[11:47] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Just intriguing, it might just be coinciendence as tere have been a couple of others as well
[11:50] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> cuddykid, Can you lend me a Hard Hat its landing quite close me!
[11:50] <m3eav> just starting to get some decode now
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[11:53] <Upu_M0UPU> 434.302 now
[11:54] <mfa298> cracking signal (now that I've finished all the setup issues)
[11:54] <Phil_M0DNY> mfa298: Makes a nice change for you I bet!
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[11:55] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> He he I bought a Habamp for the van, first balloon and I'm underneath it!
[11:56] <Upu_M0UPU> lol
[11:56] <mfa298> I should have heard it ages ago, but found there's a duff joint somewhere. Not sure if it's the PL259 plug, the coax or the T piece
[11:58] <mfa298> Now I need another cable so I can properly do side by side of the E4000 and R820T. However both seem to be able to decode the signal.
[12:00] <M0CJM_Neil> Whats a good S/N ratio that I should be looking for?
[12:00] <Upu_M0UPU> if you can decode
[12:00] <Upu_M0UPU> its fine :)
[12:00] <Upu_M0UPU> I have 0db atm
[12:01] <M0CJM_Neil> yep am decoding @ 25 db
[12:02] <Upu_M0UPU> interesting
[12:02] <Babs> HABE-Lab's predicted path is aping the Suzuka Race circuit. It even has the required crossover. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuka_Circuit
[12:03] <daveake> erm what's it doing ....?
[12:03] <qyx_> it has somehow jumped to the left
[12:03] <qyx_> ?
[12:03] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Well it was !
[12:03] <Upu_M0UPU> how much customisation did you do with the code ?
[12:03] <qyx_> hh
[12:04] <M0CJM_Neil> I have to pop out now guys, will leave the radio decoding but signals disappearing
[12:04] M0CJM_Neil (~neil@host86-180-86-90.range86-180.btcentralplus.com) left irc:
[12:04] <Alchamist> If it does a step to the right, start to worry
[12:04] <Upu_M0UPU> thats wierd
[12:04] <HixWork> picked up by a UFO
[12:04] <Upu_M0UPU> $$$$$LAB,430,12:01:37,52.2113468,-2.1003497,12704,8*F983
[12:04] <Upu_M0UPU> $$$$$LAB,431,12:01:49,52.2110178,-2.998120,12757,8*E28F
[12:04] <Upu_M0UPU> seems to have lost a digit
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[12:05] <Ugi> That looks like a decimal conversion error
[12:05] <Upu_M0UPU> that code has been tested to death
[12:05] <qyx_> huh, if the two numbers are processed separately
[12:06] <m3eav> cant help think that tracking is not right?
[12:06] <qyx_> then it might be only leading-zero problem
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[12:06] <Upu_M0UPU> yeah error on reported position m3eav
[12:06] <m3eav> i thought so, was starting to think my rotator has lost synch :-)
[12:06] <m3eav> sync
[12:07] <m3eav> getting strongest signal about +15-20deg azimuth of my position here
[12:07] <Ugi> if it crosses past -1.0 and comes back to the correct spot we will know what the error is!
[12:08] <Ugi> -2.0
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[12:09] <chrisg7ogx> getting stronger here but is a weak signal
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[12:10] <LazyLeopard> Riiight... Slight glitch in the positional decoding there, I think. ;)
[12:10] <Upu_M0UPU> I think he's amended my code to increase the number of digits
[12:10] <Upu_M0UPU> but unsure what error has been introduced
[12:10] <Ugi> without putting in all the leading zeros by the loko of it
[12:10] <Ugi> look
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[12:11] <Upu_M0UPU> yep
[12:12] <junderwood> It's going to be all over the place as it goes through -2
[12:12] <Ugi> Should be fine in about 15 mins when it crosses 2.0
[12:12] <LazyLeopard> Yeah. Ten times exaggeration in the decimal part of the longitude.
[12:12] <junderwood> Unfortunately, that's where it is predicted to reverse direction :(
[12:12] <Upu_M0UPU> I bet
[12:12] <Ugi> After that, hope it's on the ground before it reaches -1.1
[12:12] <Upu_M0UPU> he's increased the number of digits
[12:12] <junderwood> 100x next, then 1000
[12:12] <Upu_M0UPU> but not amended the telemetry line
[12:12] <Upu_M0UPU> %s%i.%05ld
[12:12] <Upu_M0UPU> to match
[12:13] <LazyLeopard> Oops.
[12:13] <Upu_M0UPU> however fairly easy to work out where it is
[12:13] <daveake> More ammo for JGC :p
[12:13] <Upu_M0UPU> so no biggie
[12:13] <Upu_M0UPU> lol
[12:13] <S_Mark> whats JGC?
[12:14] <Upu_M0UPU> who :)
[12:14] Nick change: daveake -> daveake_M6RPI
[12:14] cuddykid (~acudworth@host-92-28-51-239.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[12:14] <S_Mark> Ahh!
[12:14] <cuddykid> oh dear! what's going on with gps! wonder if flight mode wasn't set :S
[12:14] <Gadget-Mac> Yay, decodes here :)
[12:14] <Upu_M0UPU> cuddykid
[12:14] <cuddykid> hi Upu_M0UPU
[12:14] <Upu_M0UPU> did you increase the number of digits in my code ?
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[12:14] <Upu_M0UPU> number of digits of GPS accuracy ?
[12:14] <cuddykid> no
[12:14] <cuddykid> but hacked a lot about with GPS code
[12:15] <Upu_M0UPU> its not putting the leading zeros in
[12:15] <junderwood> too much :)
[12:15] <cuddykid> took a huge portion of the power saving stuff out
[12:15] <cuddykid> oh
[12:15] <cuddykid> lol
[12:15] <Upu_M0UPU> have you got the code to hand ?
[12:15] <cuddykid> yeah, one sec
[12:15] <Upu_M0UPU> specifically the sprintf line
[12:15] <Upu_M0UPU> sprintf(txstring, "$$$$$BECKFOOT,%i,%02d:%02d:%02d,%s%i.%05ld,%s%i.%05ld,%ld,%d,%i",count, hour, minute, second,lat < 0 ? "-" : "",lat_int,lat_dec,lon < 0 ? "-" : "",lon_int,lon_dec, maxalt,sats,errorstatus);
[12:15] <Upu_M0UPU> that one
[12:16] <cuddykid> http://pastebin.com/2eZPdcTj
[12:16] <cuddykid> ^ whole code
[12:16] <daveake_M6RPI> Silly big building between me and the payload
[12:16] <Upu_M0UPU> yeah you're not padding correctly
[12:16] <cuddykid> oops
[12:16] <Upu_M0UPU> should be %07
[12:16] <g6gzh> now all you need to do is fix the code and upload a new version 8-)
[12:17] <cuddykid> oh - I didn't change that bit - should have checked
[12:17] <cuddykid> is this hot fixable server side?
[12:17] <junderwood> daveake_M6RPI, I like this direction. I didn't bother putting the antenna mast up.
[12:17] <Upu_M0UPU> I've asked
[12:17] <cuddykid> ta
[12:19] <cuddykid> Upu_M0UPU: think it's because it's now got 9 sats?
[12:19] <Upu_M0UPU> nah
[12:19] <cuddykid> why would it have suddenly got more accurate?
[12:19] <griffonbot> Received email: Colin Tuckley "Re: [UKHAS] Conference + Foundation Exam"
[12:20] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Conference + Foundation Exam"
[12:20] <Upu_M0UPU> I don't know because my code only reports to 5 digits
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[12:20] <cuddykid> hm
[12:20] <Upu_M0UPU> which is odd
[12:20] <Upu_M0UPU> $$$$$PAVA,13,14:52:26,53.75247,-1.81801,273,6,8*A27
[12:20] <cuddykid> yeah
[12:20] <Upu_M0UPU> I'll double check when I get home
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[12:21] <Upu_M0UPU> Adam is hot fixing it
[12:21] <Nerdsville> Hi all, just saw this on twitter, fired up FCDP+ remotely, amazingly getting decodes using HF long wire in the loft, till I get home at lunch to change antenna
[12:21] <cuddykid> thanks Upu_M0UPU thanks Randomskk
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[12:23] <Ugi> Man I gatta pay attention to my code! - once it's up there's no changing it!
[12:23] <F6AGV> hi ALL
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[12:23] <daveake_M6RPI> Yup. Out of your hands and rather public!
[12:23] <Upu_M0UPU> oh yes :)
[12:23] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> F6AGV, Afternoon
[12:23] <Upu_M0UPU> hi F6AGV
[12:24] <Upu_M0UPU> its ok cuddykid its good at making the map look like a spider has run over it :)
[12:24] <Alchamist> There was just a really really strong gust of wind ...
[12:24] <Maxell> woot
[12:24] <Upu_M0UPU> lol Alchamist
[12:25] <F6AGV> afternoon to boys
[12:25] <Maxell> I just set the rtlsdr/fldigi up over 3G
[12:25] <cuddykid> school kids are watching this lol
[12:25] <cuddykid> wonder if they'll believe the strong gust ;)
[12:25] <Maxell> and two ssh tunnels where required.
[12:25] <cuddykid> probably
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[12:26] <Alchamist> It was caught in the jetwash of a passing RAF jet ...
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[12:26] <cuddykid> indeed
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[12:26] <mfa298> this signal is so good I'm now getting decodes with an rtl dongle and it's stock magmount antenna!
[12:26] <cuddykid> was a very easy launch apart from backup tracker not wanting to turn on
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[12:27] <cuddykid> did it the other way around this time - filled the balloon first
[12:27] <Maxell> mfa298: wat?!
[12:27] <F6AGV> can you tell me why hablab trajectory is a straight in the middle?
[12:27] <cuddykid> at least no signal issues on this flight :D
[12:27] <Maxell> mfa298: i tried that while chasing, it was not that great.
[12:27] <Randomskk> there
[12:27] <Randomskk> think that's fixed it
[12:28] <cuddykid> woo
[12:28] <cuddykid> cheers Randomskk
[12:28] <Randomskk> please confirm :P
[12:28] <Alchamist> F6AGV: It's the new etch-a-sketch HAB'ing
[12:28] <cuddykid> looks it
[12:28] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Looks better
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[12:28] <mfa298> Maxell: it's in a reasonably good position and only really started being useable like that once I was inside the green circle.
[12:28] <cuddykid> just a lot of jets passing near by
[12:28] <Alchamist> I blame global warming
[12:29] <Alchamist> woah ...
[12:29] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Oh oH
[12:29] <LazyLeopard> Heh!
[12:29] <cuddykid> oh dear haha
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[12:29] <Maxell> mfa298: yeah, while chasing your always nearby.
[12:29] <daveake_M6RPI> symmetry
[12:29] <qyx_> uha
[12:29] <Alchamist> Can I just say that the teleportation code is working like a charm!
[12:29] <m3eav> i think it's trying some sky-writing :-)
[12:29] <daveake_M6RPI> I did that once :)
[12:30] <Ugi> Is the lat' off now?
[12:30] <HixWork> $$$EtchASketch
[12:30] <Upu_M0UPU> haha
[12:30] <Maxell> hah
[12:30] <Alchamist> It's the all new Stealth HAB'ing
[12:30] <daveake_M6RPI> Well cuddykid, your fault for missing last year's conf :)
[12:30] <m3eav> chase car gonna have fun.
[12:30] <HixWork> couldn't be anything to do with RAF or USAF jamming tech in the Mach Loop could it?
[12:30] <cuddykid> :P
[12:31] <m3eav> Space aliens !!
[12:31] <qyx_> is the rtty encrypted and digitally signed?
[12:31] <Alchamist> GCHQ ....
[12:31] <daveake_M6RPI> arty rtty
[12:31] <Randomskk> right, what is going on :P
[12:31] <cuddykid> school kids will love this
[12:31] <Alchamist> Like a rubber ball ...
[12:32] <cuddykid> they probably will believe it
[12:32] <HixWork> cuddykid, you sure you fitted a uBlox not a seismometer
[12:32] <mfa298> Maxell: I've got a lot more height than a chase vehicle will have, also if you're too close you'll end up being in the antenna null. This is pure experimentation. I've already got a better radio and antenna decoding.
[12:32] <cuddykid> well.. ha
[12:32] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Deep fading for me now I reckon its overhead
[12:32] <Maxell> qyx_: alienz know how github works, they figued out how the checksum works :P
[12:32] <cuddykid> heading into Pawan burst territory now!
[12:33] <cuddykid> I think the location atm is probably correct
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[12:33] <Maxell> mfa298: ah
[12:33] <HixWork> heading into unknown territory morelike :)
[12:34] <Alchamist> "And this, children, is why you never code when you are drunk ..."
[12:34] <HixWork> I've heard thats one of the best times :)
[12:34] <daveake_M6RPI> I was working at a customer site in Denmark recently. They had a beer dispenser.
[12:35] <HixWork> Ford canteen on Cologne deos too, beer at lunch :)
[12:35] <Alchamist> I want to try the Pi controlled beer dispenser ...
[12:35] <daveake_M6RPI> i.e. drink vending machine stocked with bottles of beer
[12:35] <HixWork> there is a BrePi produced by one of the guys on hackvana
[12:35] <chrisg7ogx> can i have a dial freq please?
[12:36] <Ugi> Stil keep doing a jig to the east every now and again
[12:36] <Ugi> some sort of fill routine?
[12:36] <mfa298> The last one where it stepped to the right looks like it gained an extra leading zero
[12:36] <F6AGV> very strange this lab
[12:36] <HixWork> have you got anything on board that could be glitching things?
[12:36] <mfa298> raw: -2.824870, spacenear: -2.0082487
[12:36] <chrisg7ogx> can I have a dial freq please?
[12:36] <Upu_M0UPU> its a simple problem
[12:36] <Upu_M0UPU> in code
[12:37] <F6AGV> ok
[12:37] <cuddykid> at least I got ascent rate reasonably bang on
[12:37] <Ugi> and the transmitter - you have a dozen or more receivers this time!
[12:37] <Alchamist> cuddykid: You assume you did, and that there's not a 0 missing from that .. ;)
[12:37] <daveake_M6RPI> Only if you didn't mess with the altitude part of the code :)
[12:38] <cuddykid> :)
[12:38] <mfa298> i think the spacenear.us positions are jumping when there's 0s at the end of the value, so it's adding more 0s at the start than it needs to.
[12:38] <Alchamist> Although, if there's a 0 missing from the alitiude, it's either really impressive, or really not ..
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[12:39] <Ugi> mfa298: I agree. Same with jumps south it looks like
[12:39] <chrisg7ogx> can someone give me a dial freq please?
[12:39] <cuddykid> this could land very close by
[12:39] <LazyLeopard> 434.302.3
[12:40] <fsphil> just looked at the map
[12:40] <mfa298> I was just looking at the raw data for the jumps south and it looks like the same thing is happening
[12:40] <chrisg7ogx> lazyleopard tks
[12:40] <F6AGV> ascent speed is about 4.44 m/s
[12:40] <fsphil> someone is going to get shouted at by JGC :)
[12:41] <Ugi> Who is JGC and why is (s)he shouty?
[12:41] <Upu_M0UPU> JGC did a really good talk on common coding errors at the conference last year
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[12:41] <Upu_M0UPU> nope
[12:41] <fsphil> well he's not shouty, actually rather nice chap
[12:41] <daveake_M6RPI> and he's doing another this year
[12:42] <daveake_M6RPI> and he's probably working on it right now :p
[12:42] <fsphil> lol
[12:42] <fsphil> laughing manically
[12:42] <Upu_M0UPU> just so you know in the back ground we Adam and Daniel are busy trying to fix this as we speak so bear with them
[12:42] <Ugi> I think I have read the wiki entry on that
[12:42] <fsphil> maniacally even
[12:42] <Upu_M0UPU> taking screen shots anyway :)
[12:43] <daveake_M6RPI> Saying "Fly, my pretty, fly"
[12:43] <Upu_M0UPU> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LEaf1QLRUY&feature=player_detailpage#t=6301s / http://blog.jgc.org/2012/09/my-ukhas-2012-conference-talk-hab.html
[12:43] <Upu_M0UPU> worth watching
[12:43] <fsphil> unit testing ftw
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[12:44] <Upu_M0UPU> the current position errors are the hotfix that isn't working so well
[12:44] <Upu_M0UPU> but its ok we know where it is keep recieving
[12:44] <Ugi> tracking isn't going to matter ATM - due to land back in cuddykid's lap anyway!
[12:44] <daveake_M6RPI> tbh I think most payloads get no more testing than "showing my house on the map"
[12:44] <Upu_M0UPU> sadly this is true
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[12:45] Action: LazyLeopard remembers one or two classic Meridian-crossing incidents. ;)
[12:45] <jcoxon> back in the day in cambridge it was known to drive the payload over 0.0 just to check
[12:45] <Ugi> I'm mentally booking a trip to greenwich when I think I have my tracker working!
[12:46] <HixWork> I've been testing mine in the car and recording the RTTY. DEcoding it back home to check its all ok :)
[12:46] <mfa298> sounds like we have a good example of why trying to fix stuff on the fly isn't always a good idea.
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> Ugi: Play it safe. A short boat-ride off the west coast of africa.
[12:46] <g6gzh> I'm sure someone must have produced a file of NMEA sentences to test boundary conditions
[12:46] <Upu_M0UPU> Rob Harrison did it
[12:46] <Ugi> SpeedEvil: not a bad plan - wonder if Mrs Ugi would buy that one?
[12:46] <Upu_M0UPU> it plays a circle 1 degree round 0,0
[12:47] <Upu_M0UPU> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing
[12:47] <daveake_M6RPI> Yep. I did my own after my 1st 2 flights failed horribly
[12:48] <g6gzh> the wiki has everything it seems, eventually I might read it all
[12:49] <mfa298> by the time you think you've read it all someone will have written some new pages
[12:49] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Conference + Foundation Exam"
[12:50] <m3eav> has anyone arranged a live video feed fomr the chase car, i could do with a good laugh:-)
[12:50] Action: SpeedEvil imagines an anneka-rice-esque chase video of the chasers.
[12:50] <Upu_M0UPU> eyah daveake and I have done it m3eav
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[12:50] <Upu_M0UPU> have you seen the video where the Pi live streamed its own recovery ?
[12:50] <fsphil> the interceptor
[12:51] <Upu_M0UPU> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZW8g8bwmiM&feature=c4-overview&playnext=1&list=TLD-NoDhRj-Yo
[12:51] <daveake_M6RPI> That was very x-files :)
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[12:51] <Upu_M0UPU> very too close to power lines
[12:51] <daveake_M6RPI> don't remind me
[12:51] <fsphil> needed to be darker, and with more flash lights for x-files
[12:52] <fsphil> oh, and in a warehouse
[12:52] <daveake_M6RPI> One flashing light not enough?
[12:52] <Upu_M0UPU> I think the position reporting is accurate now
[12:52] <Randomskk> not always
[12:52] <Upu_M0UPU> ok
[12:52] <Randomskk> basically if it transmits "52.123" it will be corrected to "52.0000123"
[12:53] <Randomskk> which is right
[12:53] <Ugi> Still jiggin south
[12:53] <Randomskk> but if it transmits "52.1230000" it will be corrected to "52.0000123" which is not right
[12:53] <cuddykid> this must be record pawan altitude haha
[12:53] <Upu_M0UPU> what size Pawan ?
[12:53] <Randomskk> ironically this is because of a padding error in habitat ;)
[12:53] <cuddykid> 1200g
[12:53] <Randomskk> though unfortunately a much less easily fixed one
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[12:55] <cuddykid> aiming for 30,500m burst
[12:56] <g6gzh> oh well, not quite 8-)
[12:57] <cuddykid> not too bad though
[12:57] <Upu_M0UPU> you missed cuddykid :)
[12:57] <cuddykid> :)
[12:57] <cuddykid> few extra stirks
[12:57] <cuddykid> right - wonder where this thing will land!
[12:57] <cuddykid> predictions?
[12:58] <cuddykid> think I might head out droitwich way
[12:58] Action: Alchamist gets out the barcode scanner to see if the lines on the map scan ...
[12:58] <Ugi> M5
[12:58] <cuddykid> :)
[12:59] <eroomde> i just looked at the map
[12:59] <eroomde> um....
[12:59] <Randomskk> eta landing?
[12:59] <Randomskk> eroomde: padding
[12:59] <LazyLeopard> I think "Oops" probably covers it. ;)
[13:00] <S_Mark> lol tewkesbury
[13:01] <cuddykid> forgot to change my chase car callsign
[13:01] <cuddykid> right - ready to head off :) - I'll head droitwich way
[13:02] <Ugi> Just drive up & down the M5 with the sunroof open!
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[13:02] <junderwood> Has someone been playing with an Etch-a-sketch?
[13:03] <g6gzh> I couldn't find Droitwich on the map until I realised it was under a mass of red lines 8-)
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[13:04] <daveake_M6RPI> hah
[13:04] <Phil_M0DNY> It's been trying hard to erase worcester.
[13:04] <daveake_M6RPI> fair
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[13:05] Action: daveake_M6RPI makes note not to fly at same time as cuddykid :p
[13:05] <fsphil> lol
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[13:06] <daveake_M6RPI> "Where's your flight, Dave?" "Dunno somewhere under that red block"
[13:06] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> I reckon he
[13:06] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> s trying a Square balloon
[13:07] <S_Mark> at least he has shown the school kids the importance of testing :p
[13:07] <Ugi> going down fast - 17 m/s!
[13:08] <eroomde> that's not that fast at that altitude
[13:08] <Ugi> Is that the thin air up there?
[13:08] <eroomde> yep
[13:08] <Ugi> I see.
[13:08] <Alchamist> either that or a rounding error ...
[13:08] <Ugi> Alt graph looks lovely - don't think any errors there
[13:09] <Ugi> Had forgotten it was still at 747 crusing height!
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[13:10] <daveake_M6RPI> cuddykid Could you quickly put the same bug into your chase car app then you'll have a better idea where to go :)
[13:11] <Upu_M0UPU> haha
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[13:11] <daveake_M6RPI> ah
[13:11] <daveake_M6RPI> <daveake_M6RPI> cuddykid Could you quickly put the same bug into your chase car app then you'll have a better idea where to go :)
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[13:13] <junderwood> Is it just me or did the path look better before the server was "fixed" to accommodate the bug?
[13:14] <Upu_M0UPU> cuddykid
[13:14] <Upu_M0UPU> do you want me to clear the tracker ?
[13:15] <Upu_M0UPU> before it lands to make it little more visable
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[13:16] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Mighr make some sense but confuse cuddykid !
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[13:16] <S_Mark> is the landing point even going to be accurate though?
[13:16] Action: cm13g09 can confirm that he's actually leaving Southampton this year
[13:17] <Randomskk> well done :P how'd you do?
[13:17] <cm13g09> 2:1
[13:17] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> cm13g09, Congratulations ?
[13:17] <Randomskk> yay!
[13:17] <cm13g09> Thanks people
[13:17] <Alchamist> cm13g09: Congrats
[13:17] <daveake_M6RPI> well done :0
[13:17] <daveake_M6RPI> :)
[13:18] <g6gzh> cm13g09: congrats, what were you studying?
[13:18] <cm13g09> Computer Science
[13:18] <m3eav> not navigtion i hope :-)
[13:19] <m3eav> navigation
[13:19] <cm13g09> m3eav: you've lost me
[13:19] Nick change: daveake_M6RPI -> daveake
[13:19] <Alchamist> You have to hope the backup tracker is a) working, and b) not based on the same code!
[13:19] <m3eav> do they know where it is?
[13:20] <g6gzh> the tracker is accurate if you discount the positions with trailing 0
[13:20] <cm13g09> m3eav: oh, are we trying to track something - I've interrupted, pardon me!
[13:20] <qyx_> woth trolling 0's
[13:20] <qyx_> with
[13:20] <m3eav> no, just wondering if they have an idea of where the balloon is given the "artistic" tracking lines:-)
[13:21] <costyn> it seems the predictor on the tracker still has the right idea
[13:22] <LazyLeopard> ...at least when it makes a guess based on a sensible position.
[13:22] <Upu_M0UPU> lol
[13:23] <Upu_M0UPU> my wife just called me to ask why the antenna on the roof was going left and right every minute
[13:23] <daveake> hah
[13:23] <daveake> Didn't think of that :)
[13:23] <Upu_M0UPU> no neither did I lol
[13:23] <costyn> Upu_M0UPU: haha cool
[13:23] <LazyLeopard> Heh ;)
[13:23] <S_Mark> haha
[13:23] <Ugi> Upu_M0UPU: you have an auto-tracking antenna?
[13:23] <Upu_M0UPU> Yes Ugi
[13:24] <Upu_M0UPU> using Phil_M0DNY's software
[13:24] <Phil_M0DNY> Upu_M0UPU: LOL! habrotate working faithfully!
[13:24] <g6gzh> Needs a sanity check to ignore sudden jumps
[13:24] <Brace> heh, nice
[13:24] <Upu_M0UPU> working very well Phil :))
[13:24] <Ugi> or you did before it became smoking hot tracking this one!
[13:24] <Upu_M0UPU> I've shut it down now
[13:24] <Phil_M0DNY> Great, still have your other bug reports sitting in the pile to look at.
[13:24] <Phil_M0DNY> Will get round to them soon.
[13:25] <m3eav> still waiting for my ST2 foxdelta to work then i can try the HAB auto track
[13:25] <m3eav> it got here from india and doesn;t work
[13:26] <Phil_M0DNY> m3eav: You got a 2-axis rotator as well?
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[13:26] <m3eav> yeah got the g-5500
[13:26] <m3eav> yaesu
[13:26] <Phil_M0DNY> Very nice.
[13:26] <m3eav> will be when the interface works:-)
[13:27] <Upu_M0UPU> m3eav you should get a K3NG rotator PCB
[13:27] <m3eav> i am using the WImo x-quad yagi RHCP configured
[13:27] <m3eav> well th eguy sent me a new usb/rs232 board, that didnt fix it, so now sending neew motherboard, try that
[13:27] <Upu_M0UPU> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=372
[13:27] <m3eav> it is the USB version of the ST2
[13:27] Nick change: Upu_M0UPU -> UpuWork
[13:27] <m3eav> double checked everything i can think of driver wise etc
[13:28] <LazyLeopard> Pretty much gone here now.
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[13:29] <m3eav> how much for that k3ng interface made up?
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[13:30] <UpuWork> £25 delivered
[13:30] <UpuWork> just stick an Arduino in and you're set
[13:31] <m3eav> wow, pretty good
[13:31] <UpuWork> got a few made up if you want one
[13:31] <m3eav> well if this motherboard does not repair the st2, i will certainley look into that
[13:31] <m3eav> who is selling them?
[13:31] <UpuWork> that will be me
[13:31] <UpuWork> K3NG does the code
[13:31] <UpuWork> I do the hardware
[13:31] <costyn> UpuWork: looks really nice
[13:31] <m3eav> ok i will make a note of that and get back ot you on here if the motherboard doiesn;lt work
[13:31] <UpuWork> cheers
[13:31] <UpuWork> nps
[13:32] <m3eav> thanks for that, it has been really frustrating having no auto tracking fo rthe sats
[13:32] <UpuWork> combined with PSTRotate and Phil_M0DNY's software and it autotracks
[13:32] <m3eav> i bought it all for that reason..had a home made az-el prior to that i made out of a tv rotator and satellite actuator arm
[13:32] <m3eav> yeah i want to get that pstrotate for it's remote ability too
[13:32] <UpuWork> http://blog.radioartisan.com/yaesu-rotator-computer-serial-interface/
[13:33] <UpuWork> afk a few
[13:33] <Ugi> cauddykid going for the catch it looks like!
[13:34] <HixWork> CURVED BALL
[13:34] <HixWork> Bugger CAd lock sorry
[13:35] <HixWork> what are the odds on the lat/lon screwing up on land.....
[13:35] <HixWork> oh back
[13:36] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Could it have landed on th Church tower?
[13:36] <cuddykid> off to recover :)
[13:37] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> http://goo.gl/maps/Rw70j
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[13:50] <Babs> The Daily Mail just called. They are convinced that the trace on spacenear.us is more evidence of students driving around the UK countryside whilst under the influence.
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[13:52] <Ugi> Programming under the influence maybe
[13:52] <costyn> Babs: haha
[13:53] <fsphil> foreign students, surely. daily mail after all
[13:53] <Babs> fsphil: asylum seeking single mother foreign students
[13:54] <Babs> on benefits
[13:54] <Ugi> with uninsured cars...
[13:58] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> He must be having a job grabbing it, just as he reaches for it ....
[13:59] <chrisstubbs> wow habe lab has had a bad time
[13:59] <chrisstubbs> anyway off home! :)
[14:00] <S_Mark> nice!
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[14:03] <Babs> off to uni reunion. time to see who has put on most weight/lost most hair. Have a good weekend all.
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[14:10] <gonzo_mob> did chris' hab go up?
[14:13] <HixWork> Up, left, right left again, down etc etc
[14:13] <HixWork> comme ca http://i.imgur.com/nt4BsCI.jpg
[14:15] <eroomde> looks like a box jellyfish
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[14:23] <Darkside> good lord
[14:23] <Darkside> code bugs
[14:28] <HixWork> spacenear issues apparently
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[14:29] <mfa298> I think it was a mixture of payload bug and trying to fix on spacenear
[14:30] <mfa298> but the fixing on spacenear broke it in other ways
[14:32] <jcoxon> yeah its a little unfair to say it was a spacenear.us issue
[14:32] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Looks like something in the NMEA conversion, its actually the decimal fraction that varied in length and then some oddities ?
[14:34] <mfa298> the payload bug was it loosing the leading zeros after the decimal point (so x.012 became x.12)
[14:34] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Could be then the result wasn't the right length
[14:34] <mfa298> the spacenear bodge to fix it was trying to add those missing 0s back in, but when the end of the decimal part ended in 0s it added too many extra leading zeros.
[14:35] <mfa298> (at least that's my understanding from looking at the raw data and the plotted values)
[14:35] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Makes sense!
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[14:36] <Ugi> Any reports of recovery?
[14:36] <Ugi> or indeed non-recovery?
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[14:38] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> No report either way as far as I can see
[14:38] <LazyLeopard> At 14:36, cuddykid said "off to recover :)"
[14:38] <LazyLeopard> Hasn't been heard from since. ;)
[14:39] <LazyLeopard> ...though the chase car seemed to be within a few hundred metres of the probable payload location at that point.
[14:43] <daveake> I hope he's not following the flight path :p
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[14:47] <Ugi> track-car has not moved. Hope it's not another tree problem, or similar
[14:48] <daveake> Well he knows who to call
[14:48] <Ugi> very true!
[14:49] <HixWork> ghostbusters?
[14:53] <fsphil> only if they've branched out
[14:53] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> leaf him alone
[14:54] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> he hasn't twigged on yet
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[14:55] <Ugi> time to bough out gracefully from this conversation
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[14:55] <cuddykid> hi all
[14:56] <Ugi> Ah ha.
[14:56] <Ugi> How goes it?
[14:56] <cuddykid> easy recovery - 2 farmer chaps seemed surprised to hear what had unfolded in their back yard
[14:56] <fsphil> nice one
[14:56] <cuddykid> think I spotted the chase car on descent video as we were right underneath it most of way
[14:56] <Ugi> no tress or ghosts involved then?
[14:56] <cuddykid> no trees fortunately :)
[14:57] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Excellent
[14:57] <cuddykid> thanks everyone for tracking
[14:57] <Ugi> Sounds like a considerable success
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[14:57] <cuddykid> window of the box fogged up a bit
[14:57] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Usual good fun :-)
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[14:57] <cuddykid> well, sort of froze moisture that was obviously on it
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[14:58] <cuddykid> http://pic.twitter.com/CyFIdhw1lk
[14:58] <cuddykid> ^ recovery
[14:58] <griffonbot> Received email: Russ Garrett "Re: [UKHAS] Conference + Foundation Exam"
[14:59] <Ugi> looks an ideal spot to recover from!
[14:59] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> ah yes easy recovery!
[14:59] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> Right back to thecamping life then for me
[15:00] Action: Geoff-G8DHE\M Stretches back out on lounger
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[15:00] <Upu> nice cuddykid
[15:00] <cuddykid> landed about 10km away if that :) took 10/15 mins to get back
[15:01] <Upu> will have a debrief when you get home :)
[15:01] <cuddykid> I'm back :)
[15:01] <cuddykid> just trying to get my useless internet working
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[15:08] <daveake> broke it
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[15:16] <eroomde> gps doppler based velocity measurements are really impressively good
[15:17] <eroomde> even with our simple tracking algorithm, the doppler velocities are instantaneously good to a few cm/s
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> i can detect my footsteps with ublox5
[15:17] <Ugi> you can seriously measure normal terristrial velocities with GPS doppler shifts?
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> - gps velocity wobbling
[15:18] <eroomde> Ugi: yup
[15:18] <eroomde> it's really good
[15:18] <Ugi> I wouldn't even think to try that
[15:18] <Laurenceb_> like i said, you can walk down the street with a ublox5 at 5hz
[15:18] <Laurenceb_> and look at the results
[15:18] <Ugi> surely the shift is minute
[15:18] <eroomde> but we can track it minutely too
[15:19] <eroomde> like, centihertz
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[15:19] <Laurenceb_> easily see individual footsteps
[15:19] <Ugi> on a GHz signal?
[15:19] <Laurenceb_> yup
[15:19] <eroomde> mixed down to an IF
[15:19] <eroomde> easy enough
[15:19] <eroomde> doppler stays the same
[15:19] <Ugi> That's unbelievably sensitive!
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> wtf @ makerbot
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> $403 million for some perman00b junk
[15:20] <Steffanx> lol, you can also just copy your rant about it from ##stm32 to here Laurenceb_
[15:20] Action: Laurenceb_ is RAGGGIIINGGG
[15:21] <Ugi> what is the man-boob thing?
[15:21] <Laurenceb_> someone should pay me $10 billion for some sane ideas
[15:22] <HixWork> bettoer off with £10b
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=perman00b
[15:22] <Ugi> I'm good with either
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> wtf urban dictionary
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> they are WRONG
[15:22] <eroomde> relax Laurenceb_
[15:23] <eroomde> Ugi: so yes, take good advantage of gps velocity
[15:23] <eroomde> maybe Tx it down
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> http://rlv.zcache.com/forumwarz_permanoob_button-rdf79a61fdd3d4b658e2f147e4f09410e_x7j3i_8byvr_210.jpg?bg=0xFFFFFF
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> finally
[15:24] <Ugi> OK - I assumed it was just taking the difference between position fixes but the doppler thing is a whole different ball-game
[15:24] <eroomde> diff between position fixes is always very noisy
[15:24] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Conference + Foundation Exam"
[15:24] <Ugi> that was what I expected
[15:24] <eroomde> although you can get velocity from positions differences in a smart way (just subtraction divided by time period is not a smart way)
[15:25] <eroomde> but yeah, doppler is way better
[15:25] <Ugi> so wasn't rating GPS velocity very highly
[15:25] <Laurenceb_> http://burymeinthisdress.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/picture-10.png
[15:25] <Laurenceb_> makerbot user is the cybertard at back right
[15:26] <griffonbot> Received email: John Tanner "Re: [UKHAS] Conference + Foundation Exam"
[15:27] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Conference + Foundation Exam"
[15:28] <cuddykid> photos are up http://www.flickr.com/photos/acudworth/ :)
[15:28] <mattbrejza> ^ i think its 10W but w/e
[15:29] <Phil_M0DNY> It is
[15:29] <mfa298> I thought it was 10W as well. But then 5W is plenty for the local repeater (if you have one)
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[15:31] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Conference + Foundation Exam"
[15:31] Action: Phil_M0DNY is writing up a response.
[15:31] <fsphil> too late :)
[15:32] <mattbrejza> however most small radios only tx 5W so it might as well be 5W
[15:32] <fsphil> yea
[15:32] <fsphil> I only had the ft817 then
[15:32] <fsphil> looks like it's going to be popular, hopefully it can happen
[15:33] <Relz> are there any HAB launches this weekend in UK?
[15:33] <fsphil> there was one today Relz
[15:33] <fsphil> don't believe there are any sat/sun
[15:33] <Relz> yeah i missed it :( I saw it had an interesting path plotted
[15:33] <fsphil> haha yea
[15:33] <mattbrejza> hopefully events will be scheduled so people can do the events they want
[15:33] <fsphil> the trace of a bug
[15:33] <fsphil> yep
[15:34] <fsphil> hoping to see ed try to explain gps
[15:34] <Relz> i have trouble finding out when they are happening unless i see them on news sites
[15:34] <fsphil> if I come out of it with enough to write a decoder, he deserves a medal
[15:34] <mattbrejza> im interested in how to implement it (parts of it)
[15:34] <eroomde> Relz: join the ukas mailing list
[15:34] <eroomde> ukhas*
[15:34] <fsphil> oh bot
[15:35] <fsphil> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ukhas
[15:35] <mattbrejza> could probably do the same talk for a rtty decoder too, but probably one is enough :P
[15:35] <fsphil> forum?
[15:35] <fsphil> I keep getting stuck with finding the phase
[15:36] <mattbrejza> for fsk or gps?
[15:36] <fsphil> fsk
[15:36] <mattbrejza> you can do it non-coherently
[15:36] <mattbrejza> so you dont need to
[15:38] <Randomskk> or you can try and track the phase
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[15:38] <Randomskk> but not sure there's any point
[15:38] <Randomskk> as mattbrejza suggests you just do non coherent detection
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[15:38] <fsphil> not sure what that means
[15:38] <Randomskk> ed drew a diagram once
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[15:39] <mattbrejza> would you have to track the phase over the entire BW (like 500Hz)?
[15:39] <Randomskk> it means you multiply the incoming signal with cos and sin at the detection frequency over the entire bit period
[15:39] <Randomskk> and see which has the bigger response or whatever
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[15:39] <Randomskk> basically iq demod
[15:39] <Randomskk> uhm
[15:39] <Randomskk> gotta run. ed has a diagram!
[15:40] <mattbrejza> for coherent?
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[15:40] <mattbrejza> either way, cba to actually implement
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[15:40] <fsphil> what I had was an array of samples, 1 bit long, storing the differences - so a change in bit produces a peak
[15:40] <Randomskk> for incoherent
[15:40] <mattbrejza> yea i know that one :P
[15:41] <Randomskk> I was explaining to fsphil :P
[15:41] <Randomskk> I should hope you do :P
[15:41] <fsphil> but it only worked if the timing was very good
[15:41] <Randomskk> yea you really want to track the bit timing as well
[15:41] <Randomskk> and stuff
[15:41] <Randomskk> or sync to it
[15:42] <Relz> thanks fsphil
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[15:47] <eroomde> we track the local oscillator frequency in our kalman filter
[15:47] <eroomde> from it i can say that the tcxo is good to about 0.1ppm
[15:47] <eroomde> which is good
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[15:48] <Brian_> does anyone in east anglia want to team up to do a HAB project/launch?
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[15:49] <eroomde> in which areas do you feel that you might need some help?
[15:51] <Brian_> tracking got a list of parts to buy for it, and the actual launch ie filling the balloon etc, don't want to be a loner ha
[15:51] <eroomde> that doesn't leave much :p
[15:52] <eroomde> well, i would definitely try and attend a launch if you can
[15:52] <eroomde> most people are happy for others to come along
[15:52] <eroomde> and it demysitfies a whole lot
[15:52] <eroomde> it's quite straightforward once you've seen it once
[15:52] <griffonbot> Received email: Philip Crump "Re: [UKHAS] Conference + Foundation Exam"
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[15:53] <Brian_> good thinking i'll keep an eye out for any in cambridge, just thought would be nice to work with someone on it to have input etc otherwise I will be doing everything by myself
[15:54] <eroomde> it's really quite easy to launch a hab and build a tracker, honestly it probably seems more daunting than it actually is
[15:54] <eroomde> i mean, try and find a collaborator by all means, but don't let the lack of one put you off
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[15:55] <Brian_> ok i'll trry if you hear of anyone looking for a partner let me know
[15:55] <fsphil> 10GHz is a new one to foundation
[15:55] <fsphil> odd choice of band to allow them on
[15:55] <fsphil> why not the higher GHz bands too
[15:56] <eroomde> interesting though
[15:56] <fsphil> or all of them
[15:56] <Phil_M0DNY> I'm not sure to be honest.
[15:56] <Phil_M0DNY> But all the microwave bands are in flux at the moment
[15:56] <fsphil> true
[15:56] <Phil_M0DNY> half may not exist in a year or so
[15:57] <mattbrejza> relevent: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?reload=true&arnumber=6515173
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[15:57] <fsphil> 38ghz
[15:58] <Phil_M0DNY> Very relevant! Less amateur bands, more people able to watch HD cat videos when out and about!
[15:58] <fsphil> that's not going to work well indoors
[15:58] <Phil_M0DNY> It's designed mainly for open spaces like stadiums, shopping centres, streets I guess.
[15:59] <mattbrejza> i think it will work inside, but it wont leak outside
[15:59] <mattbrejza> new wifi 802.11ad is 60GHz i think
[15:59] <fsphil> aye
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[15:59] <eroomde> like farting
[15:59] <fsphil> unless the window is open
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[16:00] <fsphil> IP over fart would be quite slow
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[16:01] <daveake> The packet my friend is blowing in the wind
[16:02] <nigelvh> Have to figure out the TTLs before it disperses though.
[16:02] <nigelvh> Also best to make communications UDP rather than TCP. Avoid the acks/nacks
[16:03] <eroomde> like a girlfriend
[16:03] <eroomde> / end of satire
[16:03] <nigelvh> Haha
[16:03] <mfa298> have to be careful of people spoofing the source address
[16:04] <nigelvh> Every source is unique. Though can be hard to distinguish sometimes.
[16:04] <mattbrejza> probably should have used the word 'propagate' instead
[16:04] <fsphil> baked beans is a DOS?
[16:05] <nigelvh> Just need to have large buffers.
[16:05] <cuddykid> launch - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjjn7dNY2Mk&feature=youtu.be
[16:06] Action: SpeedEvil ponders commenting about gut flora being unique to the individual, and aerosols containing those bacteria and sloughed off gut cells being highly unique.
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[16:07] <fsphil> Big Mac address
[16:07] <nigelvh> HAHAHAHA
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[16:12] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> cuddykid, Nice launch ! Very smooth.
[16:12] <cuddykid> yeah, very smooth flight
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[16:13] <wsirc_6242> how do register a flight for spacenear.us/tracker? My brother ha probably organised this on my behalf - but I'm just wondering
[16:15] <wsirc_6242> doesn't matter, I think i've found info on UkHas, sorry ;P
[16:15] <cuddykid> hardly any balloon left too - restored my faith in pawan
[16:15] <Geoff-G8DHE\M> wsirc_6242, see here http://habitat.habhub.org/
[16:16] <wsirc_6242> thanks
[16:16] <mclane> Hi, can someone please approve a flight document?
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[16:21] <fsphil> best to ask in #habhub mclane
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[16:22] <cuddykid> took me 10 mins to pick it up after landing - including a few mins spent talking to farmer - not bad
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[16:24] <BenBancroft> What type of checksum does NMEA use, and does it hash the dollar on the start of the string as well (I'm guessing it won't hash itself)
[16:24] <fsphil> it is calculated from everything between but not including the $ and *
[16:25] <BenBancroft> ok
[16:25] <BenBancroft> so $GPGGA,161744.00,,,,,0,00,99.99,,,,,,*67 would hash GPGGA,161744.00,,,,,0,00,99.99,,,,,,
[16:25] <fsphil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMEA_0183#C_implementation_of_checksum_generation
[16:25] <fsphil> yes
[16:25] <BenBancroft> which includes comma on end?
[16:25] <fsphil> yep
[16:25] <fsphil> everything between the $ and *
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[16:27] <x-f> what was HABE's max alitude? tracker has been half-cleaned.
[16:27] <x-f> altitude*
[16:28] <qyx_> something below 30K
[16:29] <x-f> but higher than 23 km? :)
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[16:29] <qyx_> 14:55 < cuddykid> aiming for 30,500m burst
[16:29] <qyx_> 14:56 < g6gzh> oh well, not quite 8-)
[16:29] <qyx_> 14:57 < cuddykid> not too bad though
[16:29] <qyx_> 14:57 < Upu_M0UPU> you missed cuddykid :)
[16:30] <qyx_> yep, higher than 23km
[16:30] <x-f> thanks
[16:30] <cuddykid> 28,658m was max
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[16:35] <eroomde> and only 4 years later, the xilinx tools are installed on the thinkpad
[16:36] <eroomde> a process i started at about lunchtime
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[16:57] <arko> eroomde: lol
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[17:02] <Hix> in the absence of my IMU boards, I've come up with a plan to use the heading from the GPS to try and control a servo to try and maintain a northerly heading.
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[17:02] <Hix> should be a good way to practise stabilising a camera platform
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[17:03] <eroomde> angle and direction are different
[17:03] <eroomde> how do you know which way your payload is pointing?
[17:04] <Hix> i wont from the gps, but its something i can play with until i have the IMU sorted out
[17:05] <Ugi> Anyone have an opinion on whether these are good enough for HABing: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251282944333
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[17:06] <eroomde> but i mean, i don;t think you can use a servo to maintain a northerly heading or anything
[17:06] <eroomde> if you can measure the direction you're pointing
[17:07] <eroomde> Ugi: not an opinion, no
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[17:07] <eroomde> i can just declare that they'll be absolutely fine for hab
[17:07] <Ugi> Ah. Better still.
[17:07] <eroomde> used them loads
[17:08] <eroomde> their power consumptopn is a bit more than the modern, lowest power ubloxes
[17:08] <eroomde> but i mean, not really a big deal
[17:08] <Ugi> I thought they looked cheap enough that I might put a disposable pico board together with them.
[17:08] <Hix> eroomde: I probably worded it badly, I was aiming to use the gps to point the servo and try to get it linked to a parameter from the gps
[17:08] <eroomde> well if you want pico, check the power calcs
[17:08] <eroomde> Hix: ah right i see
[17:08] <Hix> with my coding skills this will be an accomplishment
[17:08] <Hix> but a base to work from
[17:08] <eroomde> so maintaining the contraint that the payload will point in the ditrection that it's going
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[17:09] <Hix> sort of yeah
[17:09] <Hix> very basic, but a start.
[17:09] <Ugi> I see. Well, may be worth having a few in at that price anyway.
[17:09] <Hix> tiny acorns etc
[17:09] <Hix> :)
[17:10] <Hix> Ugi you can get LEA6s from aliexpress for that sort of money, just a bit of shipping fdelay
[17:11] <Ugi> Cool. OK, might do that then. Thanks Hix.
[17:11] <Hix> sorry NEO-6 2@ $18 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2PCS-LOT-Free-Shipping-UBLOX-modules-NEO-6M-GPS-positioning-module-NEO-6M-0-001/920210395.html
[17:11] <Hix> MAX are smaller but for testing these are great
[17:12] <Hix> and have native usb
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[17:14] <Ugi> Cool. Thanks. Have not used aliexpress before - they're good?
[17:14] <Hix> bugger - someone forgot to charge laptop battery. bbl
[17:14] <Ugi> TTFN
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[17:34] <griffonbot> Received email: M5AKA "Re: [UKHAS] Conference + Foundation Exam"
[17:35] <eroomde> radically different eh
[17:37] <mfa298> you've got to keep a log on the old regs
[17:37] <mfa298> can't remember off hand what else has changed since those days
[17:38] <Upu> the LEA5's are rock solid but fairly large modules, nothing wrong with the NEO6M's apart from they are larger and can't use the power saving modes the 6Q's can
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[17:45] <eroomde> i have a blinky stm32f4 chip
[17:45] <eroomde> with arm's new officially maintained gcc version
[17:46] <eroomde> which is nice
[17:46] <eroomde> all downhill from now
[17:47] <arko> yep
[17:47] <eroomde> i'm pleased there's now an arm maintained thing
[17:48] <arko> the problem is that the focus is mostly on the high end arms
[17:48] <arko> like the A series
[17:48] <eroomde> it does all the cortex parts
[17:48] <arko> since smartphone devices and what not
[17:49] <arko> yeah, but the M series stuff isnt the main focus from what i've heard
[17:49] <arko> im lame and use IAR
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[17:49] <arko> so i dont really know about gcc arm other than this sdr i use
[17:49] <eroomde> it's fine
[17:50] <eroomde> https://launchpad.net/gcc-arm-embedded
[17:50] <eroomde> you must be thinking of something different
[17:52] <arko> ohhhh
[17:52] <arko> yeah i was
[17:52] <arko> heh
[17:54] <arko> oh sna[
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[17:54] <arko> snap, must have been gcc not gcc arm embedded
[17:55] <arko> i think the latest gcc releases supported only cortex-A
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[17:58] <mikestir> eroomde: do you use one of the pre-built gcc bundles or build your own?
[17:58] <eroomde> i just downloaded their own build
[17:59] <eroomde> works fine so far
[17:59] <eroomde> the 2013_q1 one
[17:59] <mikestir> is that a codesourcery one?
[17:59] <eroomde> nope
[17:59] <eroomde> it's now the offocial ARM build of GCC for cortex devices
[18:00] <eroomde> maintained by people on the ARM payroll
[18:00] <eroomde> it's quite new
[18:00] <mikestir> is it distributed by arm or the gcc team? I used to use the codesourcery binaries but they became a PITA to download since Mentor Graphics took over, so I switched to linaro
[18:02] <eroomde> arm
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[18:03] <mikestir> oh sorry, I didn't realise that launchpad link was to the actual distribution
[18:04] <eroomde> sorry yes
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[18:05] <arko> oh wow
[18:05] <mikestir> will need to do some benchmarks. be good if it's faster than keil
[18:05] <arko> these devs are getting paid?
[18:05] <eroomde> yes
[18:05] <arko> awesome!!
[18:06] <arko> that means it wont suck
[18:06] <arko> :)
[18:06] <arko> jk, it still could
[18:06] <arko> but yeah, should help
[18:07] <mikestir> eroomde: what you up to on f4? work or play?
[18:07] <eroomde> play this weekend
[18:08] <eroomde> probably work soon
[18:08] <eroomde> got a clean sheet project, an opportunity to try it out
[18:08] <mikestir> I do a lot on stm32 at work. played around with the f4 at home as well. it's nice
[18:08] <eroomde> indeed. i've certainly used the previous gen arms a bit
[18:09] <eroomde> haven't really needed to do anything embedded that was that powerful in the last couple of years, so have just been using avrs
[18:09] <eroomde> but now that cortex stuff is firmly here and the toolchains now seem less of a moving target, i'll give it a go
[18:09] <eroomde> what do you use them for at work?
[18:10] <mikestir> payment terminal
[18:10] <mikestir> have you looked at some of the M0 and M0+ devices?
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[18:10] <eroomde> yes
[18:10] <eroomde> they look great
[18:10] <mikestir> nxp
[18:11] <mikestir> yeah they're still not quite there on power consumption, but they're unbelievably cheap
[18:11] <eroomde> the little M0 with CAN really hits the spot for something we were going to make
[18:11] <eroomde> and yes, the price is amazing
[18:12] <mikestir> I'm actually in the process of throwing together a little handheld decoder for an 868 MHz tracker I may use as a backup
[18:12] <eroomde> the FPU on the f4 is nice for one of our little internal projects which requires some decent sensor fusion and control
[18:12] <mikestir> used an LPC1114 dev board I had spare
[18:12] <eroomde> and we might use it for dataloggers too
[18:13] <eroomde> and then as the brainstem of a fun project we've just been asked to do. it'll be quite overkill for that that it gives us some room to experiment
[18:13] <mikestir> a lot of M4s don't seem to bother with the FPU. it's nice that the STM32 has it
[18:13] <mikestir> e.g. the Kinetis doesn't have it until you get to the big ones
[18:13] <eroomde> yes, having it on a smallish lqfp package is lovely
[18:15] <eroomde> just the ticket for an imu
[18:16] <mikestir> means you get to use floats ;)
[18:17] <mikestir> I was thinking last night about whether the STM32F4 would make a nice low power SSDV encoder board, after writing off the idea of FM analogue video
[18:17] <mikestir> it has a camera interface
[18:17] <mikestir> not enough RAM for a framestore but it has an EBI as well at least on the higher pin-count version
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[18:19] <eroomde> if you can already get the jpeg, you're sorted
[18:20] <eroomde> fsphil did that for the first ssdv thing, as i understand
[18:20] <eroomde> he had it running on an avr
[18:20] <eroomde> using one of the cheapy embedded jpeg engine serial cameras (i think?)
[18:21] <jcoxon> good iss pass about to occur
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[18:21] <fsphil> correct
[18:22] <fsphil> it works on small parts of the jpeg, rather than the whole. takes up about 2k
[18:22] <fsphil> jcoxon: gonna try tx'ing?
[18:23] <eroomde> very neat
[18:24] <fsphil> depending on the camera, if it can store the image and send it slowly, you might be able to do jpeg encoding with a small memory footprint
[18:24] <fsphil> you'd need width x 16 pixels at least for normal jpegs
[18:24] <mikestir> most cmos sensors allow you to choose the output window, even non-soc ones
[18:24] <fsphil> encode each x16 row at a time
[18:24] <mikestir> although of course that would be a shit idea!
[18:24] <mikestir> forget I said it!
[18:25] <fsphil> you could still do FM video... sorta... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGgmCiJ9iEM
[18:26] <mikestir> I think I'm going to talk them out of doing video on this flight
[18:26] <fsphil> I'm debating flying this sometime.. no practical value to it beyond it being quite unusual :)
[18:27] <fsphil> unless you can get more power it's not practical to do proper video
[18:27] <mikestir> video unavailable. i'll try later
[18:27] <mikestir> so what sensor did you use that outputs jpeg?
[18:28] <fsphil> I used a serial camera from 4D systems, which has been discontinued
[18:28] <fsphil> there is also the Linksprite
[18:28] <fsphil> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10061
[18:28] <fsphil> I've had problems with corrupt jpeg out of the linksprite
[18:28] <fsphil> I think my timing is upsetting it
[18:29] <fsphil> others have used it just fine
[18:29] <jcoxon> fsphil, yeah just had a go
[18:29] <jcoxon> nothing
[18:30] <fsphil> gonna need a few more watts I suspect
[18:30] <jcoxon> and i'm now decoding nearly all packets olcally
[18:30] <fsphil> aah, the longer preamble help?
[18:30] <fsphil> the packets have no FEC so it wouldn't take much to stop it decoding
[18:30] <jcoxon> possibly
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[18:31] <jcoxon> also i made a few changes to the ax_init
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[18:33] <jcoxon> i think the next thing is to upgrade the antenna as you've suggested
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[18:33] <BenBancroft> Does anyone have a working binary command to disable VTG on a ublox max-6, as the one on the wiki doesn't appear to work?
[18:34] <fsphil> yea something a bit more directional
[18:36] <fsphil> the other binary commands working ok though BenBancroft?
[18:36] <BenBancroft> yes
[18:37] <eroomde> looked at the ublox protocol datasheet?
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[18:37] <ibanezmatt13> Good Evening :)
[18:38] <fsphil> yo
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[18:39] <ibanezmatt13> I'm gonna order some styrofoam later and start building :)
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[18:40] <fsphil> hopefully not as messy as polystyrene
[18:41] <daveake> BenBancroft, I use 0xB5, 0x62, 0x06, 0x01, 0x08, 0x00, 0xF0, 0x05, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x01, 0x05, 0x47
[18:41] <BenBancroft> Thanks I will try that now
[18:41] <ibanezmatt13> We're thinking of making the box with two compartments: A lower compartment containing the batteries (heaviest so I assume better for stability) and the upper compartment for everything else. It also means that I can keep components well spaces out for heat dissipation and the lower layer will allow some slack on the coax cable before leaving the bottom of the box out of a hole. fsphil I'm using the same as S_Mark used on h
[18:42] <mikestir> fsphil: There's quite a few jpeg camera modules on ebay. Some using the aptina MT9D111, which I have used before albeit in BT.601 mode
[18:42] <fsphil> that's quite similar to what I've done ibanezmatt13, though I usually keep open space to a minimum
[18:43] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, I'm not going over the top with spacing to be honest, just better than having it all crammed into one layer I think
[18:43] <fsphil> yes
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[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[18:43] <ibanezmatt13> Evening
[18:44] <BenBancroft> OK I had actually modified that of the wiki to be the same as yours earlier, as per something I found on internet, but its still not working so Im guessing I need to reboot the GPS
[18:44] <daveake> Shouldn't
[18:44] <fsphil> mikestir: interesting, those cameras don't look too bad
[18:45] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: with the Pi Cam, would it be ok temperature wise sticking it to the inside of the box but having a hole for it to film? Will it not get too cold?
[18:45] <daveake> Why you ask him? :p
[18:45] <fsphil> I've not flown one yet, but suspect it'll be fine :)
[18:45] <daveake> It will be :)
[18:46] Action: fsphil defers to daveake :)
[18:46] <ibanezmatt13> Ah ok, thanks. Sorry daveake :)
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[18:47] <BenBancroft> Still getting VTA, so it must be something else
[18:47] <ibanezmatt13> I was trying to explain how my tracker worked to my Granddad earlier; he still believes that the internet comes through the mains electricity and one time, he cut the plug off a cable in fear of people spying on him... He thought my tracker was going to end the world :)
[18:48] <fsphil> well if you land in the wrong place, you never know
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[18:48] <ibanezmatt13> true
[18:49] <BenBancroft> OK I moved it from being disabled last to second last and now its disabled? Im guessing it could be timing issue?
[18:49] <fsphil> you may be sending too quickly yea
[18:49] <BenBancroft> I might add a sleep then
[18:50] <daveake> What I do is send a "turn off xxx" message if I see unwanted message "$GPxxx"
[18:50] <BenBancroft> But Im closing it afterwards so it should have plenty of time, and the ACK packet is correct
[18:50] <fsphil> maybe a later command was turning it back on?
[18:50] <ibanezmatt13> In fact, that's what I really need to do. Flight mode... completely forgot
[18:51] <fsphil> flight mode, and do a simulation
[18:52] <ibanezmatt13> I may have asked this previously, but is it the same command in the C example on the wiki for my ublox in python?
[18:53] <fsphil> ubx command?
[18:53] <ibanezmatt13> yeah I think so
[18:53] <fsphil> what you send and receive from the ublox won't change
[18:53] <ibanezmatt13> setting flight mode
[18:53] <fsphil> just how you send and receive it
[18:53] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[18:54] <ibanezmatt13> I looked at some example python code to check whether flight mode was set, and I must say I didn't understand it. Something about ACK packet headers or something like that...
[18:59] <eroomde> ACK is just standard communications jargon
[18:59] <eroomde> it just means 'ok'
[18:59] <fsphil> acknowledgment
[18:59] <eroomde> the opposite is NACK - not ok
[18:59] <eroomde> well it means acknowledge
[18:59] <eroomde> so if you send a bunch of config stuff to say the gps, it will send back (hopefully) 'ack' to say 'yup, got it'
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13> oh right, that makes sense. What is the general way to set flight mode then check to see if it's confirmed. The C code on the Wiki is not really of use to me.
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13> does that happen when you send it?
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[19:01] <eroomde> you get acks or nacks in response to you sending something
[19:01] <eroomde> there's that c implementation but you could write your own in any language
[19:02] <Upu> ping Phil_M0DNY
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[19:03] <ibanezmatt13> so is the idea to write the command then while the serial port is still open, read and check for an ACK
[19:03] <ibanezmatt13> ?
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[19:06] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: yes
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13> what does the ACK look like?
[19:08] <ibanezmatt13> ok
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[19:09] <eroomde> http://www.u-blox.com/images/downloads/Product_Docs/u-blox6_ReceiverDescriptionProtocolSpec_%28GPS.G6-SW-10018%29.pdf
[19:09] <fsphil> more a not than a bot
[19:09] <eroomde> poor thing
[19:09] <eroomde> channel's got too big for her
[19:09] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
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[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> will this ACK acknowledge whether flight mode is on or off? Or wil it ackknowledge whether the GPS has received the command ok?
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> 91 ACK-ACK 0x05 0x01 2 Answer Message Acknowledged
[19:13] <ibanezmatt13> 0x05 0x01 apparently means message acknowledged
[19:13] <fsphil> the ACK says the command was received and executed
[19:13] <ibanezmatt13> is there no way to check whether it's actually set, or is that the way to check?
[19:13] <fsphil> yea, the same command that sets it, if you send it without data (just the command ID)
[19:13] <fsphil> will cause the module to reply with the current config
[19:14] <fsphil> and also an ACK, which confused me for ages
[19:14] <ibanezmatt13> So once I've set it, I read the serial port expecting an array? "0x05 0x01"
[19:15] <ibanezmatt13> that's not even an array is it :)
[19:15] <fsphil> the ACK will contain more than that
[19:15] <fsphil> it's basically a small packet
[19:15] <ibanezmatt13> I'm looking on that datasheet, not sure what to look for.
[19:18] <fsphil> pdf won't load for me
[19:19] <ibanezmatt13> this one: v
[19:19] <ibanezmatt13> 91 ACK-ACK 0x05 0x01 2 Answer Message Acknowledged
[19:19] <ibanezmatt13> oh god one sec
[19:19] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.u-blox.com/images/downloads/Product_Docs/u-blox6_ReceiverDescriptionProtocolSpec_%28GPS.G6-SW-10018%29.pdf
[19:19] <fsphil> yea it's downloading verrry slowly
[19:20] <fsphil> but somewhere in there it'll show the layout of a typical packet
[19:20] <ibanezmatt13> mine downloaded slowly too, I had to refresh for it to work
[19:20] <fsphil> starts with two bytes that are always the same
[19:20] <fsphil> ends with a checksum
[19:20] <fsphil> the data is in between
[19:20] <fsphil> ACK's are small packets that only contain a few bytes of data
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[19:21] <ibanezmatt13> An ACK-ACK starts with 0x05 0x01
[19:21] <ibanezmatt13> Not sure about the rest
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[19:21] <ibanezmatt13> Can't find it on datasheet
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[19:24] <wb8elk> Just uploaded a flight Doc for Saturday June 22nd at 1800 UTC for Field Day in Alabama if someone can approve it
[19:25] <eroomde> even God is better off asking on #habhub
[19:25] <ibanezmatt13> lol
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[19:26] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: any luck?
[19:26] <Upu> wb8elk have you tested the payload document ? Should work and upload now
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[19:28] <wb8elk> Will do
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[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox6 is there a python version of this or shall I try to do it myself?
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[19:34] <fsphil> no harm in trying
[19:35] <fsphil> you know from that code what bytes to expect for the ACK
[19:35] <ibanezmatt13> yes, I coud do with understanding it though I think...
[19:35] <ibanezmatt13> when i understand it I can have a go
[19:38] <Upu> seems to work wb8elk
[19:38] <Upu> do you have the flight id ?
[19:40] <ibanezmatt13> this UBX ACk is rather confusing
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[19:45] <wb8elk> Seems to work....how do I add a formula for my Internal Temp conversion?. To calculate it you subtract 63 from the value
[19:45] <wb8elk> how do I see the Flight ID?
[19:46] <wb8elk> I entered a Flight Doc
[19:46] <Upu> at the end it gives you an id number
[19:46] <Upu> we can add a filter to the flight doc I'll see if I can get someone to sort that out for your
[19:46] <wb8elk> I closed that page...how do I get that number back?
[19:46] <Upu> let me see if someone can find it hang on
[19:46] <wb8elk> I saw the filters but didn't see where I can add the formula.
[19:47] <daveake> if you start to create a new one, and search for the old one, it shows the ID
[19:47] <wb8elk> ok will try that
[19:47] <Upu> $$WB8ELK,33,19:41:57,34.4086684,-86.8128611,325,8,850,0,108*3C24\n
[19:47] <Upu> the 108 = temp Bill ?
[19:48] <wb8elk> The Flight is called Field Day 2013 and the Number is: d40876c9f4232bfdddf8687154476ddf
[19:48] <wb8elk> 108-63 = 45 deg C
[19:48] <Upu> ok I've asked for that to be approved ok thx
[19:49] <wb8elk> it's sitting on the porch in the hot Sun
[19:49] <Upu> toasty :)
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> btw why has 63 to be substracted?
[19:49] <wb8elk> Going to fly your MAX 7 GPS again
[19:49] <Upu> ok cool
[19:49] <Upu> let me know how it goes
[19:50] <wb8elk> The ADC count is 108 on a 10-bit ADC... then subtract 63 from that...I'd do it in my software but running out of time to mod it
[19:50] <Upu> we are still working the itinerary out for conference lots of people wanting to speak and only so much time, I'll come back to you when we've worked out what we can squeeze in where
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:50] <wb8elk> have to head back into work now...thanks all
[19:50] <Upu> take care
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> see you soon Bill!
[19:50] <wb8elk> Would love to talk and possibly may attend in person
[19:51] <Upu> in person ? wow :)
[19:51] <Upu> that would be fantastic let me know
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:51] <wb8elk> My talk can be shortened to as little as 15 minutes and as long as 2 hours (how long I spoke at GPSL :-)
[19:51] <Upu> invasion of the yanks :)
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:51] <Upu> lol we don't have 2 hours :)
[19:51] <Upu> struggling to fit 30 min slots in at the moment
[19:51] <wb8elk> I gave them the long version of my talks LOL
[19:52] <Upu> well let me know if you can make it in person
[19:52] <wb8elk> I can speak fast and do a 20-minute talk if necessary
[19:52] <Upu> nps thanks
[19:52] <wb8elk> I'll let you know...it would be fantastic to attend in person
[19:52] <wb8elk> bye for now...gotta head back into work now
[19:52] <Upu> bye
[19:53] <Upu> at the rate this is going its going to be GPSL held in London :)
[19:54] <Upu> change the name to The International UKHAS 2013 Conference
[19:55] <Upu> Tom is coming from Poland too
[19:55] <Upu> possibly Radim from Slovakia
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[20:08] <AndChat|8064> Upu see pm :-)
[20:08] <Upu> seen
[20:09] Nick change: AndChat|8064 -> gadget
[20:09] Nick change: gadget -> GadgetDroid
[20:09] <GadgetDroid> Better
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[20:14] <WILLdude> Evening peoples.
[20:15] <eroomde> we have to do some ignition tests for yoyo william of dude
[20:15] <eroomde> right so i do this thing where i don't look at the screen when i type
[20:15] <Upu> evening WILLdude
[20:15] <eroomde> because i have to peck
[20:16] <eroomde> so i don;t see that i already have a message waiting to be sent in another channel before i start typing a new message
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[20:16] <daveake> WILLdude can now relax in the knowledge that he's not about to be set alight
[20:16] <WILLdude> Huh?
[20:17] <daveake> ignition ^^
[20:17] <WILLdude> Ah sorry.
[20:17] <mfa298> I was starting to wonder what yoyo was (maybe you only yawn once)
[20:17] <WILLdude> You're igniting a yoyo?
[20:17] <eroomde> it's a nice idea
[20:17] <WILLdude> #yolo mofos
[20:17] <eroomde> a sort of catherine wheel
[20:18] <eroomde> no yolo in the channel
[20:18] <eroomde> you know the rules
[20:18] <WILLdude> I'm confused.
[20:18] <WILLdude> IK.
[20:18] <WILLdude> I hate #yolo
[20:18] <eroomde> i meant to say
[20:18] <WILLdude> #yolt is better.
[20:18] <eroomde> 'yoyo william of dude'
[20:19] <eroomde> #yolt is a very good film
[20:19] <WILLdude> Wait so why are you igniting a yoyo?
[20:19] <WILLdude> While playing with it?
[20:19] <eroomde> gotta get my kicks somewhow
[20:19] <eroomde> it's a friday night, i'm in tonight.
[20:19] <eroomde> money saving pre-holiday
[20:20] <eroomde> saw a yoyo
[20:20] <eroomde> one thing leads to another
[20:20] <WILLdude> So you are igniting a yoyo, what part of it and for what purpose?
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> purpose?
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> we need a purpose to set things on fire?
[20:22] <eroomde> speedevil can have a job at my workplace
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[20:22] <mfa298> surely the only purpose for setting stuff on fire is to have fire!
[20:22] <heathkid> sounds like an interesting payload too!
[20:23] <eroomde> space fire yoyos
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> mere burning, deflagration, or might it detonate?
[20:23] <eroomde> you could have a rocket powered autorotating landing system
[20:23] <heathkid> hydrogen balloon of course
[20:23] <eroomde> freefall then lift in the last few meters of descent
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: sky crane ftw!
[20:23] <heathkid> ignites at the bottom of it's fall then returns to balloon
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[20:25] <heathkid> eroomde: sounds like that would take some serious electronics... 9DOF maybe? or could you get by with 6?
[20:25] <eroomde> it's amazing how much rocket you need to get 500g from ground level to 30km
[20:25] <eroomde> shows you the power of nuclear energy
[20:25] <eroomde> (earth's helium being alpha decay that grabs an electron from underground uranium)
[20:26] <eroomde> heathkid: 9 is always useful
[20:26] <eroomde> well, or at least gyros = acclerometers won;t give you a yaw vector because gravity doesn;t tell you anything about yaw
[20:26] <eroomde> gibal lock etc
[20:27] <heathkid> true
[20:27] <eroomde> but this might be a level of analysis too far
[20:27] <heathkid> working on a payload stabilization platform of some sort... not just for imaging
[20:27] <eroomde> w should probably first decide that a rocket yoyo is not the most efficient way of doing things
[20:28] <eroomde> heathkid: you are?
[20:28] <heathkid> yep
[20:28] <eroomde> v interesting
[20:28] <eroomde> what else apart from imagine?
[20:28] <eroomde> imaging*
[20:29] <heathkid> it'd be nice to keep the payload from spinning unless I want it to on purpose
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[20:30] <heathkid> would make it easier for better magnetometer readings / survey stuff...
[20:31] <eroomde> that's very true
[20:31] <eroomde> it seems there are a few stabilisation efforts ongoing atm
[20:31] <eroomde> which i think it's absolutely marvellous
[20:31] <heathkid> hard to get a good "picture" of the Earth's magnetic field if the payload is spinning out of control
[20:32] <heathkid> not impossible with enough samples... but still...
[20:32] <eroomde> it does help to know where you're pointing
[20:32] <heathkid> zero spin = a lot better resolution
[20:33] <WILLdude> eroomde: Your job is to set stuff on fire, right?
[20:33] <eroomde> how are you thinking of doing the stabilisation?
[20:33] <eroomde> WILLdude: yes
[20:33] <heathkid> and I have yet to do a single launch yet...
[20:33] <eroomde> details heathkid
[20:33] <fsphil> he's the firestarter
[20:34] Action: heathkid used to be a firefighter
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> btw, best ebay auction ever http://www.ebay.de/itm/MAN-Futura-Lenkrad-Bus-Reisebus-Omnibus-/121131035112?pt=Nutzfahrzeugteile&hash=item1c33f8e9e8
[20:34] <eroomde> my arch nemesis
[20:34] <eroomde> we meet again
[20:34] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: best to keep bus conversation to yourself
[20:34] <mfa298> fsphil: a twisted firestarter
[20:35] <heathkid> volunteer firefighter
[20:35] <fsphil> mfa298: not enough data yet
[20:35] <fsphil> are any firefighters forced into it?
[20:35] <arko> aawww
[20:35] <arko> i want an arch nemesis
[20:35] <arko> how cool would that be
[20:35] <arko> "hey arko who was that?"
[20:35] <eroomde> my other arch nemesis in National Instruments
[20:35] <heathkid> pays not bad and it's usually 24 hours on and 48 hours off...
[20:35] <eroomde> or at least its LabView division
[20:35] <arko> "oh him.. thats my arch nemsis.."
[20:35] <arko> haha
[20:35] <heathkid> volunteers are pretty much 24x7
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:35] <heathkid> with no pay
[20:35] <arko> shhh, do not speak of NI
[20:36] <heathkid> and less respect from the "paid" guys
[20:36] <fsphil> the knights who say NI
[20:36] <BrainDamage> eroomde: not anerdev?
[20:36] <eroomde> i like anerdev
[20:36] <WILLdude> Teachers at my school are so stupid. They give students their email addresses.
[20:36] <eroomde> he is pleasingly mental
[20:37] <heathkid> eroomde: ever sit inside a room that was fully envolved except for a small spot on the floor where you're sitting just watching HOW the fire *lives and grows*?
[20:37] <heathkid> WOW!
[20:37] <eroomde> no
[20:37] <eroomde> i start different kinds of fires
[20:37] <heathkid> it truly is alive
[20:38] <heathkid> the movie Backdraft may have been a bunch of B.S. but they did get a few of the special effects right
[20:38] <eroomde> i try and contain them in a chamber and let them out of a hole in the end
[20:38] <heathkid> that's better than NOT having a hole in the end! :)
[20:38] <eroomde> well yes
[20:39] <eroomde> that result in a detonation
[20:39] <eroomde> and badness
[20:39] <Phil_M0DNY> ls
[20:39] <eroomde> lrwxrwxrwx yourmum yourmum address.txt
[20:39] <heathkid> incredible photo!!! http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/301111main_superpressureballoonatflight.jpg
[20:40] <eroomde> sorry i was briefly possessed by Laurenceb_
[20:40] <arko> wow coool
[20:40] <heathkid> taken by a telescope at float altitude over Antarctica
[20:40] <heathkid> http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/superpressure_balloon.html
[20:40] <heathkid> not new... but really awesome!
[20:41] <Phil_M0DNY> eroomde: lol
[20:41] Action: heathkid wants one of those!
[20:41] <eroomde> they're yours for most of a million dollars
[20:42] <heathkid> eh... a few hours of ascent to burst and not much driving to recover payload sounds fine to me. :)
[20:42] <heathkid> for now
[20:42] <heathkid> until I do my HABSub
[20:43] <heathkid> high altitude balloon launched micro-submarine drone
[20:43] <heathkid> bwahaha
[20:43] <eroomde> quite a convoluted way of dropping something into water
[20:44] <fsphil> it wouldn't be the first payload to be droppe dinto the ocena
[20:44] <fsphil> ocean too
[20:44] <heathkid> true enough
[20:44] <heathkid> but this one would be on purpose
[20:44] <heathkid> NASA launches up until the Shuttle not counted...
[20:44] <heathkid> well... and boosters
[20:44] <heathkid> bah
[20:45] <heathkid> anyway
[20:46] <heathkid> but I'm pretty far from the ocean
[20:46] <fsphil> being close the ocean is both good and bad
[20:47] <heathkid> yep
[20:47] <fsphil> it's nice getting to the beach without having to travel too much
[20:47] <heathkid> not many storm surges in Indiana
[20:47] <heathkid> some minor flash flooding on occassion but nothing too severe
[20:48] <fsphil> don't get too many hurricanes this side of the atlantic thankfully
[20:48] <fsphil> just the remains of them
[20:48] <fsphil> lots of rain and gusty winds
[20:48] <eroomde> indiana!
[20:48] <eroomde> which reminds me, i am trying to get through parks and rec
[20:48] <heathkid> ?
[20:49] <heathkid> and speaking of beaches... I've got a 180 acre lake in my back yard... good enough (I don't like oceans that much)
[20:50] <heathkid> or seas
[20:50] <BenBancroft> what conversions do I need to do on latitude and longitude from ublox max-6 to make it standard?
[20:50] <eroomde> parks and recreation
[20:50] <eroomde> my current happy tv show
[20:50] <eroomde> it is standard?
[20:51] <BenBancroft> well its of by 2 decimal places, and about 50 miles out
[20:52] <eroomde> 'of by 2 decimal places'?
[20:52] <BenBancroft> 5456.996920 should be 54.56996920
[20:53] <heathkid> Ublox code from http://ava.upuaut.net/store (check the wiki)
[20:54] <heathkid> don't forget to set it to flight mode
[20:54] <BenBancroft> I have that all coded
[20:54] <BenBancroft> Im now parsing the NMEA strings
[20:54] <fsphil> the ublox sends something like ddxx.xxxxxx
[20:54] <BenBancroft> but values are wierd, but same as sample values on that wiki
[20:54] <fsphil> the dd is the decimal part, the xx.xxxxxx you divide by 60
[20:55] <eroomde> sorry was away
[20:55] <fsphil> and add to the dd
[20:55] <eroomde> yes, it's sending you degrees and decimal minutes
[20:55] <fsphil> it's a stupid system
[20:55] <BenBancroft> ok
[20:55] <eroomde> so you movinf of the decimal point is wrong too
[20:55] <eroomde> you actually need to convert it
[20:55] <fsphil> but it's what we are stuck with
[20:55] <BenBancroft> should i convert for habhub?
[20:56] <eroomde> best to just transmit down decimal degrees
[20:56] <eroomde> it makes more sense to humand and computers
[21:00] <heathkid> I'd look at that code... all the formatting for the uBlox-6 is in there and just works.
[21:00] <heathkid> tested with our tracker on aprs.fi and spacenear.us
[21:01] <BenBancroft> I can't find any code to parse NMEA on that wiki, just serial?
[21:02] <heathkid> gps.cpp
[21:05] <BenBancroft> Ok thanks
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[21:08] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.hindleys.com/index.php/materials/plastics-foam/sheet/styrofoam-high-density-polystyrene-foam/styrofoam-sheet-600mm-x-1245mm-x-25mm.html Does anybody know what the grams/sq metre this material is? We're trying to work out how much we need and the weight
[21:11] <number10> just weighed a piece 19g for 160x125mm
[21:12] <ibanezmatt13> is that 25mm thick or 50mm thick?
[21:12] <number10> 25
[21:12] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks for that :)
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[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> yeah closed for the night xD
[21:42] <griffonbot> Received email: M5AKA "Re: [UKHAS] Conference + Foundation Exam"
[21:44] <eroomde> it's like he's getting emails 6 hours after everyone else
[21:44] <ibanezmatt13> our total payload weight including box is set to be 650g: We're looking to get 37km
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> I got an interesting data processing problem
[21:44] <eroomde> really
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[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> take a pair of sucessive GPS coordinates and put these into the great circle formula and then divide by the time between data lines to get wind speed
[21:45] <ibanezmatt13> is decent usually quicker or slower than accent? I guess quicker...
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[21:45] <eroomde> quicker
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[21:46] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[21:46] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: so what's the problem?
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[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> it's a lot of work to do that manually, also the distances are so small that the linux calculator or wolframalpha round the result to 1
[21:47] <eroomde> use a normal calculator?
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> so that you would have to take arccos(1) for almost every point, which is nonsense
[21:47] <eroomde> i'm baffled
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> still a lot of work processing those 300-400 pts
[21:49] <eroomde> not really for a computer
[21:49] <eroomde> i'm a bit confused sorry
[21:49] <eroomde> what are you trying to work out and why?
[21:49] <number10> that seems reasonable ibanezmatt13
[21:50] <eroomde> when tyou calculated the difference in distance between great circle distance and euclidean distance between 2 gps points just a few seconds apart, why did you conclude that those resulting nanometers per second differences mattered?
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> no wait
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[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> I wanted to figure out wind speed from the balloon trajectory
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> Just assume that a square degree is 100km*sin(yourlatitude)*100km square
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> (or something like that, I'm tired)
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> no problem
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> And work it out simply that way.
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> The errors are basically close to zero at further from 10 degrees or so from the poles.
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> that sounds good
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, my idea was to get wind speed by getting the great circle distance between two GPS points divided by the time between those points
[21:54] <eroomde> yes i think i understand that bit
[21:54] <eroomde> but 1)
[21:55] <eroomde> what is the size of the error if you assume a straight line between points rather than great circle
[21:55] <eroomde> (suspect you will find it's small...)
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> If fixes are x seconds apart
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> Even at 300kmh and 60s, you've only moved 5km
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:56] <eroomde> 2) getting speed from the difference between positions is noisy
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, you are right, the geometrical distance should be fine too, now that SpeedEvil said it too
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> due to the GPS error you always have?
[21:56] <eroomde> yes
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:58] <eroomde> you can use a kalman filter to help better estimate velocity from differences between positions
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> Or just don't bother.
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[21:59] <SpeedEvil> Windspeed over successive positions a minute apart is going to be quite accurate enough with simple GPS, and deltas.
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> Sure - it may bounce around a little.
[22:00] <eroomde> average the last minute or something yep
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> so like our data lines were 22 sec apart
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> so better take 3 lines?
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[22:03] <SpeedEvil> Or just b=a;a=input;c=b;d=c;print d-a
[22:04] <SpeedEvil> Or similar
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> thank you
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[22:28] <g4sgx-iain> Evening peeps,no tracking this weekend?
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[22:35] <mfa298> there was one earlier but dont think there's anything else planned for the weekend now
[22:37] <g4sgx-iain> Yeh,just got the tail end of it.
[22:38] <Willdude123> Hi peoples
[22:38] <g4sgx-iain> Howdy.
[22:38] Nick change: MoALTz_ -> MoALTz
[22:40] <g4sgx-iain> I got my Transmitter working fine, all on interrupts and CRC working, now starting on the U-Blox, much tricker.
[22:41] <Willdude123> I think if I want to receive ham 6m stuff and 70cm hab signals, I'm gonna have to get a discone and a colinear.
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[22:42] <mfa298> Willdude123: you can get antennas for ham that do 6m, 2m & 70cms
[22:43] <mfa298> I've got a comet gp15 which does all three and I'm sure there are cheaper options
[22:43] <Willdude123> Hmm. Tim mentioned tribands.
[22:43] <LazyLeopard> WILLdude: There are co-linear antennas that'll do 6/2/.70
[22:43] <Willdude123> Is it directional?
[22:44] <Willdude123> I kinda want a roof-mountable one.
[22:44] <LazyLeopard> A colinear would be vertival, and therefor not directional.
[22:44] <LazyLeopard> vertical, even.
[22:44] <mfa298> if you were buying two antennas you'd be better off with two tuned antennas, a discone is a compromise antenna and is unlikely to be good at recieving anything
[22:44] <g4sgx-iain> I was looking at making a quagi for 70cms out of wood and wire, http://commfaculty.fullerton.edu/woverbeck/quagi.htm
[22:45] <mfa298> gp15 goes on a mast so could be mounted on a roof easily
[22:45] <LazyLeopard> ...except that the "ground" radials may skew its pattern a bit.
[22:45] <Elijah__> discones work fine, just have very little gain
[22:46] <LazyLeopard> ...but for balloon tracking gain is useful.
[22:46] <Willdude123> Jeez that' expensive.
[22:46] <Elijah__> If it's got much gain, you'll need to aim it, complicating roof mounting
[22:47] <craag> Elijah__: Colinear's have gain at the horizon in all directions - perfect for hab tracking.
[22:47] <Willdude123> £130
[22:47] <LazyLeopard> A colinear will have gain in the horizontal direction. Fine until a balloon comes directly over the house.
[22:47] <Willdude123> Heh
[22:47] <craag> Willdude123: THat's way too much.
[22:47] <Elijah__> (that's what I was getting at, gain at the horizon doesn't always help)
[22:48] <Willdude123> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/gp-15_tri-band_70_fibreglass_antenna-p-1962.html
[22:48] <Willdude123> And apparently the 6m has good ionospheric propagation.
[22:48] <Willdude123> Atm
[22:48] <mfa298> the gp15 might be a bit too much gain for hab, it was an example of a triband antenna I knew was out there.
[22:49] <Willdude123> Looks as if it's the only one.
[22:49] <mfa298> 6m can be good (apparently it's been good the last few days) but can also be totally dead
[22:50] <LazyLeopard> Cheaper? --> http://www.moonraker.eu/amateur-radio/base-vertical-antennas/moonraker-vertical/dual-and-triband-colinear/sqbm1000n-mkii-triband-6-2-70-vertical-ntype
[22:50] <mfa298> generally radio waves at different frequencies do different things in the atmosphere. HF will tend to be reflected by some layers (F) but absorbed by others (D) and that changes during the day, year and over a number of years
[22:51] <Willdude123> http://pastie.org/private/abmgymmnkmvu3vebu6vgkw
[22:51] <mfa298> 6m tends to propogate via sporadic E, which can be very short lived. Sometimes sporadic-E will reach the higher bands
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[22:53] <dougs> Quit
[22:53] <dougs> Ha
[22:53] <Willdude123> mfa298: I'm a bit confused by that email I was sent.
[22:53] <mfa298> I've come accross 6m being called the magic band as it can go from being dead to having impressive propogation
[22:54] <Willdude123> Hmm
[22:54] <mfa298> dougs: if you're trying to leave try /quit (to leave irc) or /part (to just leave this channel)
[22:55] <Willdude123> Tim, in that email I just posted a link to (I'm sure he won't mind) said there was little use in other antennas, because they are better at txing.
[22:55] <dougs> Tnx couldn't remember!
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[22:55] <mfa298> Willdude123: it all depends on what else you want to listen to, although mostly it seems like you want the ham bands
[22:56] <Willdude123> Basically ham and hab.
[22:56] <mfa298> however I think a 2m vertical will do a reasonable job of airband (~118MHz) and marine band (~160MHz)
[22:57] <mfa298> well hab is in the 70cm ham band
[22:57] <Willdude123> Have you read that paste of the email.
[22:57] <Willdude123> I know.
[22:57] <mfa298> so for ham and hab I'd go with a tuned vertical
[22:57] <mfa298> a discone will be much worse at recieving anything
[22:59] <Willdude123> Like this http://www.moonraker.eu/amateur-radio/base-vertical-antennas/moonraker-vertical/dual-and-triband-colinear/sqbm1000n-mkii-triband-6-2-70-vertical-ntype ?
[23:00] <mfa298> as I've said a few times the general rule of thumb is that you can get two out of three properties for an antenna: Efficiency (how well it picks up signals), Bandwidth (what range of continuous frequencies it covers), smaller physical size (generally related to wavelengths). A discone is generally fairly small in comparison to wavelengths and has a massive bandwidth so isn't very effiecient
[23:00] <Willdude123> MK2 with wideband receive? What does that mean.
[23:02] <Willdude123> Apparantly, because I have a wideband scanner the good performance would be wasted.
[23:02] <mfa298> depends if you want to recieve weak signals or not
[23:03] <mfa298> that antenna would probably do quite well.
[23:03] <LazyLeopard> Willdude123: It probably means it'll receive FM broadcast radio and the like just fine.
[23:03] <mfa298> for some of the more distant 6m stuff you might want a horizontal dipole
[23:04] <Willdude123> This is so confusing.
[23:04] <Willdude123> Bear in mind I can only afford one.
[23:05] <LazyLeopard> Do you plan to get an amateur licence?
[23:05] <mfa298> horizontal dipole you can probably make with what you've got already
[23:05] <Willdude123> LazyLeopard, yes
[23:06] <LazyLeopard> Then get an antenna that can be used to transmit on amateur bands.
[23:07] <Willdude123> I think I'm going to stop thinking about it for the weekend, it's doing my heasdin.
[23:07] <Willdude123> *head in
[23:07] <mfa298> For a Horizontal dipole you want two lengths of cable around 1.4m long, connect one to the centre of the coax and one to the outer. Then put it up as high as possible so you get a T shape (The top of the T is the two lengths of wire, and the vertical bit is the coax)
[23:07] <LazyLeopard> A 2m/70cm colinear or a 6m/2m/70cm colinear would at least get you chatting locally, and be fine for balloon tracking too.
[23:08] <LazyLeopard> By the time you've passed the Foundation exam you'll know enough to make a dipole.
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[23:09] <Willdude123> I thought you weren't allowed to build your own equipment with the foundation license
[23:10] <LazyLeopard> You're not allowed to build your own tranceiver.
[23:10] <mfa298> you can't build radio transmitters / rf amps
[23:10] <Willdude123> His advice is very different to the advice I get here.
[23:10] <LazyLeopard> ...but antennas are fair game.
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[23:10] <mfa298> there's no problem making antennas
[23:11] <mfa298> and dipoles are easy to make and pretty effective.
[23:11] <mfa298> There also fairly easy to put up for HF when your out in a forest.
[23:11] <Willdude123> Wow. Coax is expensive,
[23:12] <arko> heh
[23:12] <Willdude123> What does the outer layer of coax do?
[23:12] <mfa298> very good coax is expensive
[23:12] <LazyLeopard> What stuff are you looking at?
[23:12] <arko> not as expensive as this freakin 3d printer binder
[23:12] <mfa298> decent coax isn't cheap.
[23:12] <arko> today we both learn things we want are expensive :(
[23:12] <Willdude123> Urgh.
[23:13] <mfa298> Willdude123: outer layer - do you mean the metal braid ?
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[23:13] <Willdude123> Might be difficult to roof mount.
[23:13] <Willdude123> er
[23:13] <Willdude123> Idk
[23:13] <mfa298> the braid acts as a screen and also one of the conductors
[23:13] <arko> is field day tomorrow?
[23:13] <Willdude123> Enough.
[23:13] <Willdude123> I
[23:14] <Willdude123> This really is doing my head in now,
[23:14] <mfa298> coax has an inner conductor, an insulator, then annother conductor (shield or braid) then an external covering
[23:15] <mfa298> om more expensive coax cables the braid might also have copper foil
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> or be solid pipe.
[23:15] <LazyLeopard> ...and on really expensive coax, silver plating might be involved. ;)
[23:16] <mfa298> I've not gone for anything that expensive
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> superconductors too.
[23:16] <mfa298> although I've notices the quality of coax you can get for ~£1/m has dropped.
[23:17] Action: SpeedEvil sighs, and wants room temp superconductors.
[23:17] <Elijah__> A lot of times you can pick up coax cheap at hamfests
[23:17] <mfa298> I think the drum RG213 I bought a year or two ago was a similar price to the drum of W103 I bought 7 years ago
[23:18] <Willdude123> So it will add at least £40 to the price by the look of it,.
[23:18] <LazyLeopard> There's a few chunks of coax we take along to courses. I think the biggest is about 10 inches in diameter.
[23:18] <mfa298> depends on what coax you're looking at. Although I'd suggest RG213 as a good point between cheap and good quality
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[23:19] <mfa298> for a 6m dipole you could probably get away with rg58 which will be cheaper but I wouldn't recommend it for 70cm
[23:20] <LazyLeopard> I started balloon tracking with just RG58. Worked OK. the RG213 I use now is better.
[23:21] <mfa298> depends on how long it is
[23:21] <LazyLeopard> the RG50 has been relegated to the HF field trips bag.
[23:21] <LazyLeopard> Yeah.
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[23:22] <LazyLeopard> 10 metres is pushing it for RG58 at 70cms.
[23:22] <mfa298> although if you can afford it it's well worth the investment the best coax you can afford for the higher bands - and look after it (i.e. make sure the connections are waterproofed)
[23:23] <LazyLeopard> ...and the foxes, squirrels and rats can't get at it to chew it...
[23:24] <LazyLeopard> It's also worth figuring how short you can make the cable runs, especially at 70cms.
[23:24] <mfa298> that's when you need the full license... Fried rodent.
[23:25] <LazyLeopard> A fox ate part of a dipole I was sorting out on the lawn once.
[23:26] <LazyLeopard> I went in to grab a pair of pliers and a cup of coffee, came back out, and found buts of wire all over the lawn.
[23:26] <LazyLeopard> bits of wire
[23:27] <LazyLeopard> Erf. Past bedtime.
[23:27] <LazyLeopard> mfa298: ...and a linear that has plenty of headroom...
[23:27] <mfa298> Not had that issue. Although we've had some interested ponies when operating /P in the new forest.
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[23:27] <Willdude123> I think I'll need a at least 50m
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[23:28] <LazyLeopard> Big house?
[23:28] <mfa298> 50m is a lot of coax, do you live in a mansion ?
[23:28] <Willdude123> No.
[23:29] <LazyLeopard> I've only used 35 metres for the HF vertical at the end of the garden.
[23:29] <Willdude123> Wondering how I email tim politely, as the advice here contradicts what he said,
[23:30] <LazyLeopard> The co-linear's maybe 8 metres away.
[23:30] <mfa298> I think I've used 30m lengths when putting antennas up a 10+m mast and had plently of slack on the end.
[23:31] <mfa298> I think he's assuming you're going to scan the whole of the 50mhz-900mhz range (where a discone might just about make sense) however I don't think there's all that much of interest outside the ham/air/marine bands and I think a ham triband vertical would do better than a discone for those.
[23:32] <LazyLeopard> Willdude123: We've a slightly different focus here - tracking a 10mW balloon at 500kms is a little less trivial than scanning for the local traffic...
[23:33] <LazyLeopard> Anyway, time for sleep. G'night.
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[23:34] <mfa298> and it sounds like you're much more interested in the weaker signals on 6m, and HAB which will need a better antenna
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[23:34] <Willdude123> Will the colinear be any good with weaker 6m signals?
[23:37] <mfa298> I've not done much with 6m, however I suspect a horizontal antenna might be better
[23:37] <mfa298> but one of those tri band verticals might do a good job.
[23:40] <mfa298> but you can can make the dipole I described a bit earlier to use as a horizontal 6m antenna#
[23:41] <mfa298> It will probably do a reasonable job on 2m as well for the ssb portion of the band (on the occasional times there's ssb traffic)
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[00:00] --- Sat Jun 22 2013