highaltitude.log.20130620

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[03:00] <heathkid> topic?
[03:01] <heathkid> high altitude pipe bombs?
[03:01] <heathkid> or a delivery system for IED's?
[03:01] <heathkid> seriously?
[03:01] <heathkid> on IRC?
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[07:05] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning :)
[07:06] <ibanezmatt13> I managed to survive the night - the batteries didn't explode
[07:09] <ibanezmatt13> The Pi Cam records by default in a format called .h264. There are also other format options which can be enabled such as .mpg and .mp4. I was wondering which one I should choose if I want good quality, but a smooth running program (perhaps one of the options makes encoding the videoa little slow?)
[07:10] <ibanezmatt13> It turns out that .H264 is excellent for high quality at low bit rates
[07:12] <x-f> now that's a definition of "good morning" :)
[07:13] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[07:14] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not quite sure how this works, but I guess that a higher bit rate gives more quality but takes up more space?
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[07:14] <x-f> that's correct
[07:14] <ibanezmatt13> I'm wondering how to set my Pi Cam to record the video...
[07:14] <x-f> it's like less compression
[07:14] <ibanezmatt13> Right
[07:15] <ibanezmatt13> I have options such as the H264 and MPEG forms for instance. I'm wondering which I should choose.
[07:15] <ibanezmatt13> The H264 is enabled by default
[07:16] <x-f> i'd stay with that, but you could test the other one for comparison too
[07:16] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, from what I've seen, H264 is really high quality
[07:17] <ibanezmatt13> The default bit rate is 10, but seen as I've got a pretty big card, it is recomended on Wikipedia to have a 25 bit rate for 1080p
[07:17] <ibanezmatt13> So, I'm thinking of just doubling the bit rate to say 20
[07:17] <ibanezmatt13> Won't do any harm I should think?
[07:18] <x-f> how big your SD card is?
[07:18] <ibanezmatt13> 32GB Ultra
[07:18] <x-f> oh
[07:18] <ibanezmatt13> bug enough?
[07:18] <x-f> should be good
[07:19] <mfa298> bit rate of 10 or 25 sounds low, do you mean frame rate ?
[07:19] <ibanezmatt13> I'm pretty sure that's bit rate, one sec
[07:19] <x-f> just don't forget to erase the test videos before actual launch :)
[07:20] <ibanezmatt13> err, yeah I miss read that
[07:20] <ibanezmatt13> Set bitrate. Use bits per second (e.g. 10MBits/ s would be  b 10000000)
[07:21] <ibanezmatt13> Doesn't actually say what to use
[07:21] <ibanezmatt13> Got this from Wikipedia: 25 Mbit/s approximate — HDV 1080i (using MPEG2 compression)[19]
[07:22] <mfa298> Frame rate is the number of images it takes per second, standard for TV/video is 25 frames per second (cinema is 24).
[07:22] <mfa298> a higher bitrate will give better quality, generally it helps if there are rapid changes
[07:23] <mfa298> I'd also go with h264 over mpeg, it's supposed to be better quality for a given bitrate.
[07:23] <ibanezmatt13> What about fps?
[07:23] <ibanezmatt13> Just keep them at say 30
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[07:25] <mfa298> fps is frame rate. For UK I'd probably go with 25 as that matches most other systems.
[07:25] <fsphil> that's waht I've been using
[07:25] <mfa298> 30fps is the american standard,
[07:25] <fsphil> though most TVs these days will handle either
[07:25] <ibanezmatt13> So it's just the bit rate I need to set now. I imagine it changes depending on resolution, in my case 1080p
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[07:26] <ibanezmatt13> Morning daveake
[07:26] <mfa298> it will vary depending on resolution and how quickly the image is changing.
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[07:26] <daveake> morning
[07:27] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, I may go for 25Mb/s. Not sure how I can justify that though, just what I found on Wikipedia that it is recomended for 1080p
[07:27] <mfa298> If you've ever watched sport or things with lots of flashing lights in freeview and the image goes a bit blocky that's usually a sign of the bitrate being too low
[07:28] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not sure what the default bit rate is on the Pi Cam, I was quite please with it then, but it could have done with an increase in bit rate.
[07:29] <mikestir> ibanezmatt13: you should certainly use H.264 on the pi because it's going to be the most mature encoder. it's the one broadcom's commercial customers will be using the most, therefore should be the most reliable
[07:30] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah I'll use it, it produces excellent quality
[07:30] <ibanezmatt13> 17Mbs is the default :)
[07:30] <ibanezmatt13> So I guess 25 would be appropriate for a nice increase in bit rate
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[07:31] <ibanezmatt13> I've never had much experience with video, but I'm guessing that file size / time depends on what happens in the image? Or is it constant as per the bit rate?
[07:32] <mfa298> if it's a constant bitrate it will depend on that.
[07:32] <fsphil> iirc the h264 encoding is done in hardware, and you've no choice anyway?
[07:32] <mikestir> I think they released some other gpu accelerated encoders recently
[07:33] <fsphil> ooh
[07:33] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I ended up saving mpegs
[07:33] <mfa298> there might be the option of variable bitrates which might make it smaller
[07:34] <ibanezmatt13> You mean actually setting a variable bit rate or settign a different bit rate for each 5 min video?
[07:35] <mfa298> video files get interesting. There's a container format (which could be mpeg) which is what the extension is based on. Inside that you have the video stream (and potentially audio/subtitle streams as well)
[07:35] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, it would be nice to have audio too
[07:35] <fsphil> raspivid normally puts out an H264 byte stream
[07:36] <ibanezmatt13> That's 17mb/s
[07:36] <mfa298> pi you can buy licenses to unlock other codecs in hardware for decode (which might also apply to encoding) but h264 is licensed by deault
[07:36] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
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[07:36] <mikestir> I'm trying to find the thing I saw about additional encoders
[07:37] <mikestir> it was only the other day
[07:37] <mfa298> and generally h264 is the one to go with
[07:37] <ibanezmatt13> So 1080p H264 at 25fps with a little higher but rate than default (about 20-25?)
[07:37] <ibanezmatt13> bit
[07:37] <mikestir> do you have any choice over what profile it uses?
[07:38] <ibanezmatt13> when I saved the file as video.mpg it produced an MPEG
[07:38] <ibanezmatt13> So I guess you can chnage it that way, I think
[07:38] <fsphil> suspect you still had an h264 byte stream
[07:38] <mfa298> the licenses can be bought at: http://www.raspberrypi.com/license-keys/ although that suggest decode only
[07:38] <ibanezmatt13> Quite probably
[07:39] <ibanezmatt13> I think it records it always in H264 anyway and must just change it when its finished
[07:39] <fsphil> don't think it changes it
[07:39] <fsphil> it's a very basic program
[07:39] <mfa298> chances are you've got an mpeg4 container with h264 video inside
[07:39] <fsphil> it's not even mpeg4
[07:39] <fsphil> thankfully. mpeg4 is a horrible format
[07:39] <ibanezmatt13> most probably. I'll just stick with H264 :)
[07:39] <mikestir> you should
[07:40] <mfa298> it you load it into vlc you should be able to see what's in it
[07:40] <ibanezmatt13> So bit rate, default is 17, I reckon I should increase it. Is 25 appropriate? 25mb/s
[07:40] <mikestir> MP4 container is an ISO standard and is quite common for use with H.264
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[07:41] <mikestir> it gets confusing because what broadcasters call MPEG4 is actually H.264 (MPEG4 part 10)
[07:41] <fsphil> MP4 is basically MOV
[07:41] <mikestir> what we call MPEG4 (DIVX) is MPEG4 part 3 (iirc)
[07:41] <mikestir> indeed. ISO MP4 is derived from Quicktime MOV and is essentially identical. you can just rename the files in most cases
[07:42] <mfa298> I was just thinking of the container format which I thought was often mpeg4 now.
[07:42] <mfa298> been a while since I've looked at these things in detail
[07:43] <ibanezmatt13> 8 to 15 Mbit/s typ – HDTV quality (with bit-rate reduction from MPEG-4 AVC compression)
[07:43] <ibanezmatt13> 19 Mbit/s approximate — HDV 720p (using MPEG2 compression)[19]
[07:43] <ibanezmatt13> 24 Mbit/s max — AVCHD (using MPEG4 AVC compression)[20]
[07:43] <ibanezmatt13> 25 Mbit/s approximate — HDV 1080i (using MPEG2 compression)[19]
[07:43] <ibanezmatt13> 29.4 Mbit/s max – HD DVD
[07:44] <mikestir> MPEG4 AVC is H.264
[07:44] <mikestir> AVCHD is specifically H.264 high-profile, but iirc the pi encodes using that anyway
[07:45] <fsphil> worse naming scheme in history?
[07:45] <mikestir> it's ISO so of course
[07:49] <ibanezmatt13> While we're on the subject of video, in one of Dave's flights, he had to set matrix metering as he had an issue with the default mode on a previous flight. That was for pictures. Would I have to do the same for video?
[07:50] <mikestir> most cmos image sensors will auto gain on the whole image
[07:51] <mikestir> so it ought to be ok. test it by going from indoors to outdoors on a sunny day and make sure it copes
[07:52] <ibanezmatt13> the indoor quality is absolutely shocking; the outdoor quality really is superb
[07:52] <ibanezmatt13> Seen as it'll be out anyway, I don't think I need to, but Dave still had an issue image wise
[07:52] <fsphil> the default used to be to set gain based on a spot in the middle of the image
[07:52] <fsphil> this is bad for HAB
[07:53] <fsphil> as the middle spot is often a dark sky
[07:53] <fsphil> and the ground will then be very over exposed
[07:53] <ibanezmatt13> Spot metering basically makes the centre part of the image a certain luminance, which means that if it’s pointing at the blackness of space that turns grey whilst anything else in the image whites out.
[07:53] <fsphil> matrix uses many spots
[07:53] <ibanezmatt13> In the words of Dave himself :)
[07:53] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, even matrix for video?
[07:54] <fsphil> what is video but a sequence of still images
[07:54] <ibanezmatt13> of course, ignore me. Thanks :)
[07:54] <fsphil> fixed exposure would be best
[07:54] <fsphil> but it doesn't support it
[07:54] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, matrix will do fine for me
[07:55] <fsphil> there's an average mode too, which may do something similar
[07:55] <fsphil> it's very difficult to test
[07:55] <fsphil> you need a good high contrast scene
[07:55] <ibanezmatt13> To be honest, I'll just go for matrix for this flight but yes, I will try out the different modes
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[08:01] <fsphil> ah, latest version of raspivid can disable timeout
[08:01] <fsphil> at last
[08:01] <ibanezmatt13> YES!
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[08:02] <ibanezmatt13> But still, we decided to record 5 minute videos consequetively to avoid a corruption, which to be honest I think is better than risking one long video
[08:02] <fsphil> yep
[08:02] <fsphil> I'm thinking for my streaming camera
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[08:03] <fsphil> I have to keep restarting it :)
[08:03] <ibanezmatt13> In that case, that's perfect
[08:04] <ibanezmatt13> I would quite like to have a streaming camera to. I had it working once with a program called motion. Is the streaming built into raspivid?
[08:05] <fsphil> nope
[08:05] <ibanezmatt13> What do you use?
[08:05] <fsphil> hacky thing
[08:05] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[08:05] <fsphil> https://github.com/fsphil/net264
[08:06] <ibanezmatt13> I'll read it, looks very complex
[08:06] <fsphil> nah, just spits the h264 over tcp
[08:07] <ibanezmatt13> When you say something like while(len), what does that mean? I was thinking while (len == something)
[08:07] <ibanezmatt13> does it mean while len is more than 0?
[08:07] <mikestir> not 0
[08:07] <fsphil> in C, false is 0, true is everything else
[08:07] <fsphil> while() loops while the condition is true
[08:08] <ibanezmatt13> so that's the same as while True in Python?
[08:08] <fsphil> nope
[08:08] <fsphil> while(1) would be the same
[08:08] <fsphil> because 1 is always true
[08:08] <fsphil> while(0) would never run
[08:08] <ibanezmatt13> and len is not always true I guess
[08:08] <fsphil> exactly
[08:08] <ibanezmatt13> So it runs while len is not 0
[08:08] <fsphil> that's it
[08:08] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[08:09] <fsphil> there'll be something inside the loop decreasing it
[08:09] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[08:10] <fsphil> or some code that breaks out of the loop
[08:10] <ibanezmatt13> In C there's pretty much always a main(). What is the difference between main() and other functions? Why do you have to have main()?
[08:11] <mikestir> main() is where execution starts
[08:11] <fsphil> it's the first function called
[08:11] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[08:11] <fsphil> that's the only difference
[08:11] <fsphil> when main() finishes, the program ends
[08:11] <fsphil> it's return code is passed to the OS
[08:11] <fsphil> -'
[08:12] <ibanezmatt13> Do you have any slightly "easier" C code that I could try to understand? It would help if I actually understood what you were doing :)
[08:13] <ibanezmatt13> Another thing, in your repositories, there can be several .c files. I thought there was only one .c file for a program to run...
[08:14] <mikestir> large projects are split into modules and "linked"
[08:14] <mikestir> that's why there has to be a named main() function. unlike python where there's an obvious beginning
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[08:15] <ibanezmatt13> So in the main function, does that bring in automatically the other .c files or something
[08:16] <fsphil> the Makefile runs the commands that compile each .c file into an object file, .o
[08:16] <fsphil> then runs the linker which makes the actual executable
[08:16] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, ok
[08:16] <mikestir> the .o files are bit like the .pyc files that appear in python when you import a module
[08:16] <fsphil> it keeps things nice and tidy
[08:17] <ibanezmatt13> Everywhere I look on the web doesn't seem to teach me C well enough. Now that I have a decent knowledge of Python, perhaps trying to interpret other C code will help my understanding?
[08:17] <fsphil> yea that code of mine is not a good example of C, it was written very quickly
[08:17] <ibanezmatt13> Do you know where I can find a good example? Perhaps not too difficult?
[08:18] <fsphil> http://c.learncodethehardway.org/
[08:18] <fsphil> I've not gone thorugh this, but I liked their python documents
[08:18] <ibanezmatt13> I looked at that and tried my best to get through it
[08:18] <ibanezmatt13> I couldn't get much from it to be honest, but I could have a look at the example code I guess
[08:20] <ibanezmatt13> int main(int argc, char *argv[])
[08:20] <ibanezmatt13> I could never work out what the argc and argv was for.
[08:20] <fsphil> those are just variables, passed into the program by the OS
[08:20] <fsphil> ./myprogram -s hello
[08:20] <fsphil> "-s" and "hello" are what they contain
[08:20] <fsphil> actually the program name is passed too
[08:21] <fsphil> argc is how many, 3 in that case
[08:21] <fsphil> argv is an array pointing to the actual strings
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13> Does that have to be included in every function/
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13> ?
[08:22] <fsphil> just main()
[08:22] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, link bomb coming up
[08:23] <HixWork> http://www2.its.strath.ac.uk/courses/c/
[08:23] <fsphil> and not in every case then
[08:23] <HixWork> http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/cclass/cclass.html
[08:23] <HixWork> http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-087-practical-programming-in-c-january-iap-2010/
[08:24] <HixWork> http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/Dave/C/CE.html
[08:24] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks HixWork I think I have plenty matieral to be getting on with there :)
[08:24] <fsphil> I bet there are more...
[08:24] <fsphil> nope :)
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13> One of those in particular looks very readable so far
[08:25] <HixWork> http://crasseux.com/books/ctutorial/
[08:25] <HixWork> https://www.dropbox.com/s/t5fa19bq858x0ps/K%26R%20The_C_Programming_Language.pdf?m
[08:25] <HixWork> last one is K&R book in pdf
[08:26] <HixWork> very good.
[08:26] <HixWork> ha, you were right fsphil :)
[08:26] <ibanezmatt13> that last one looks good too. I'll start there
[08:26] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks :)
[08:26] <HixWork> nps
[08:26] <HixWork> same boat.....
[08:27] <mikestir> yeah you should definitely have K+R to hand
[08:27] <mikestir> it's like the horowitz and hill of C
[08:27] <ibanezmatt13> excellent, I'll start reading
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[08:35] <mfa298> looking at the start of C the hard way it looks like it could be a good tutorial *but* you have to work through it and do the exercises.
[08:35] <mfa298> just trying to read the material and understand it won't work.
[08:35] <ibanezmatt13> That K&R book has an excellent introduction about C. Just read it, excellently written and very informative.
[08:36] <mfa298> In the same way as you did with python you need to start off with small things, understand why they work and build up from there.
[08:37] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, hopefully the K&R book will help me in that way, it says it does in the introduction
[08:37] <HixWork> I also bought a second hand copy of "Programming in C" by Stephen.G. Kochan its a very good companion to K&R
[08:37] <mfa298> Even though I've been using C (and other languages) on and off for 10-15 years when I started playing with the AVR (the chip on the arduino) I started off with a nice simple program (blink.c) and tried to understand what it was doing.
[08:38] <ibanezmatt13> I'm gonna get an Arduino at some point.
[08:38] <ibanezmatt13> Will really help for C I guess
[08:38] <HixWork> just get an atmega with bootloader and breaduino it
[08:38] <ibanezmatt13> Atmega328?
[08:39] <HixWork> yes
[08:39] <ibanezmatt13> is a bootloader like a programmer for eeproms?
[08:39] <mfa298> personally I think I'd learn C writing small console apps rather than starting on arduino but that's probably only because thats the way I learnt
[08:40] <ibanezmatt13> I must admit, I understood Python more doing things with the Pi, but that's just me I guess. As I've learned with programming trackers, being thrown into the not so easy stuff it the best way to learn sometimes :)
[08:40] <mikestir> mfa298: I'd agree with that
[08:41] <ibanezmatt13> In fact, I did start learning Python before I got the Pi, but not in so much detail
[08:41] <mfa298> I think part of why you found doing the tracker stuff good was because you wanted to do it. Motivation can play a big part in learning something.
[08:41] <fsphil> it's linux that makes using python easy, rather than being a RPi thing
[08:42] <fsphil> the RPi just happens to be a handy linux machine :)
[08:42] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I keep thinking that because the Pi is the only Linux machine I've ever used
[08:42] <ibanezmatt13> I actually really like linux compared to other operating systems
[08:42] <fsphil> I do quite like python now, but not all of it
[08:42] <HixWork> oh, bugger, forget the breaduino thing ibanezmatt13 you'll need an ISP for that. so arduino cheaper
[08:43] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, sure :)
[08:43] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[08:44] <ibanezmatt13> In the K&R guide I'm reading, it says programs on linux can be compiled by running cc hello.c. Is that the same on my Pi or do I have to do something like gcc hello.c -o hello ?
[08:45] <mikestir> if you don't specify "-o hello" it will output a file called a.out
[08:45] <ibanezmatt13> Oh and then to run it creates a file called a.out which you run by typing a.out.
[08:45] <ibanezmatt13> Yes
[08:45] <ibanezmatt13> I see, thanks
[08:45] <mfa298> pretty sure cc and gcc will be the same thing on linux
[08:45] <fsphil> I think cc is a link to gcc
[08:45] <mfa298> they may not be the same on other unixes (e.g. solaris)
[08:45] <Babs> I bought the arduino cookbook. it's quite familiar in a 1980s "here's some code, type it in and mess around with it to work out what it does" computer magazine type of way. The problems each bit of code attempts to solve ramp up in their complexity through the book, I'm enjoying it.
[08:46] <ibanezmatt13> sounds good
[08:47] <fsphil> I remember getting upset after a large program I typed in from a magazine failed to save to tape
[08:47] <LeoBodnar> http://www.lynda.com/Eclipse-tutorials/CC-Essential-Training/94343-2.html
[08:47] <Phil_M0DNY> Has anyone experimented with PPP on the ubloxes?
[08:49] <HixWork> https://www.dropbox.com/s/vd7nbqh2zzdlfj5/Apress%20-%20Beginning%20Arduino%20Programming.pdf
[08:50] <HixWork> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yc1i2hoxlts762e/LearnCtheHardWay.pdf
[08:50] <LeoBodnar> PPP protocol on UBLOX?
[08:50] <ibanezmatt13> thanks HixWork. Learn C the Hard Way doesn't really help me, it wasn't really my prefered style to learn. This K&R book so far is fantastic!
[08:51] <HixWork> nps
[08:51] <Phil_M0DNY> LeoBodnar: Turns out it's only a feature of the NEO-6P chip, but gets <1m accuracy once stationary over a period of minutes.
[08:52] <Phil_M0DNY> Not v useful for hab, but was looking for other uses.
[08:52] <Babs> fsphil - I wouldn't like to estimate how many people didn't understand you when you said "failed to save to tape"
[08:52] <fsphil> lol Babs
[08:52] <LeoBodnar> RTK?
[08:53] <fsphil> sadly a small number
[08:53] <mikestir> R tape loading error
[08:53] <Babs> We had an intern who was showing me a new application and when I asked how to save the file he said "click on the TV"
[08:53] <mikestir> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts96J7HhO28
[08:53] <Babs> I was like "what?"
[08:53] <Babs> He said "CLICK ON THE TV"
[08:53] <Phil_M0DNY> LeoBodnar: It claims to give similar performance to RTK, but runs on the ublox chip without any extra hardware.
[08:53] <Babs> and then pointed to the floppy disc icon on the toolbar
[08:54] <Babs> He'd never seen a floppy disc and thought the picture was of a TV :-(
[08:54] <mfa298> I don't have many loading from tape memories but plenty of disk error on track xx type memories with 5 1/4" disks.
[08:54] <fsphil> haha
[08:54] <fsphil> yea the disk icon is a bit dated now
[08:54] <Babs> Those 5 1/4 disks rocked. I want to get one and frame it in a box frame.
[08:54] <Babs> but its difficult to find pristine 5 1/4s nowadays
[08:55] <Babs> (Not that I have looked)
[08:55] <SpeedEvil> It's probably as dated as using a punched card for 'save' when floppies were common.
[08:55] <Babs> My boss used a punch card program to get his PhD
[08:55] <SpeedEvil> Or close.
[08:55] <mikestir> Babs: I think I've got some somewhere :)
[08:55] <Babs> aww man, I would love one of those mikestir
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> I've got an a.out file but I don't know how to execute it...
[08:55] <mikestir> I'll see if I can find them
[08:56] <Babs> with a pristine label of some company that doesnt exist anymore "Maxell"
[08:56] <Babs> or soon, "Sony"
[08:57] <LeoBodnar> I used punchcard on the IBM370 mainframe
[08:57] <ibanezmatt13> In the guide it says to just type a.out to run the program but I get an error saying: -bash: a.out command not found. Must be another way to call the program?
[08:57] <mfa298> I've still got plenty of 5 1/4" disks but I dont think any are pristine
[08:57] <mikestir> ./a.out
[08:57] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[08:57] <mikestir> the current directory isn't in the path by default
[08:58] <ibanezmatt13> Ah that worked, thanks
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[08:58] <LeoBodnar> I have been loading disk packs on IBM370 mainframe as an extra money job in the Uni when I was a student.
[08:59] <LeoBodnar> Playing games on the operator console :)
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[08:59] <LeoBodnar> Disk drives the size of the washing machine
[09:00] <LeoBodnar> http://www.chilton-computing.org.uk/gallery/ral/med/r12600em.jpg
[09:01] <HixWork> That is one mean Roll-neck, cardigan, massive-set-of-burns combo
[09:01] <LeoBodnar> It's not me!!! lol
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[09:02] <mikestir> so on the earlier subject of video, has anyone done a live downlink using FM video on 2.4 or 5.8 GHz?
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[09:08] <HixWork> Oh speaking of downlink, was it Geoff-G8DHE who said he had some recording of RAF downlink fron training?
[09:09] <HixWork> apparently it's illegal to fly a powerful enough tx mikestir
[09:09] <mikestir> yeah 10 mW max, but then I was thinking about using a dish on the ground
[09:10] <SpeedEvil> Even a dish doesn't help that much
[09:10] <mfa298> I think gonzo was talking about trying it.
[09:10] <Darkside> you won't meet a link budget with that
[09:10] <mikestir> should get about 30dB out of a 80 cm dish?
[09:10] <Darkside> not enough
[09:10] <Darkside> nowhere near enough
[09:11] <Darkside> i've run through the math
[09:11] <mikestir> not for max altitude definitely
[09:11] <SpeedEvil> A 2.4m dish gets of the order of a 20-fold range improvement at 2.4ghz
[09:11] <Darkside> you would get maybe 100m or so
[09:11] <Darkside> maybe a bit more
[09:11] <Darkside> we did the sums with a 1W transmitter on 23cm
[09:11] <SpeedEvil> (To an omni)
[09:11] <SpeedEvil> For 23cm, it may be somewhat worse than at 2.4ghz and 30mW
[09:11] <Darkside> we would have needed a 30dBi dish + 20dB preamp , and that would get us about 40km range for FM video
[09:11] <SpeedEvil> err
[09:11] <SpeedEvil> 433
[09:12] <Darkside> on 70cm, it becomes a hell of a lot easier
[09:12] <SpeedEvil> 30dBi dish at 70cm is quite large.
[09:12] <Darkside> but you cant do thatin the UK
[09:12] <Darkside> on 70cm you just need a yagi on the ground, and not a big one at that
[09:12] <Darkside> thats assuming a few watts of TX power
[09:12] <mikestir> what about that allocation at 1394 MHz?
[09:13] <Darkside> got a video transmitter that will go there?
[09:13] <mikestir> not yet! it's not legal for airborne anyway :(
[09:13] <mikestir> 500mW though if it was
[09:13] <mikestir> shame
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[09:34] <Maxell> problem, Babs? :P
[09:35] <Babs> Maxell - heh
[09:36] <Babs> I was mistaken, they are actually still going anyway http://www.maxell.eu/
[09:36] <Maxell> muhhahaha
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[09:38] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork, May I just say how much I thank you for providing me with that K&R guide. I've already learned so much and C is started to make so much more sense. Thank you so much :)
[09:39] <HixWork> no worries. Though if you think it's good buy the real book. It's only fair arfterall. s'what I do. pdf to ascertain if worth buying first
[09:40] <ibanezmatt13> I've already ordered it :)
[09:40] <HixWork> :D
[09:43] <daveake> I call that book "Cardigan and Rich Tea"
[09:43] <daveake> Well worth getting
[09:43] <daveake> The book that is not the biscuits
[09:43] <daveake> Those are rubbish
[09:44] <fsphil> get chocolate digestives instead
[09:44] <daveake> mmmm
[09:44] <daveake> or
[09:44] <daveake> Dark Chocolate Hob Nobs
[09:44] <fsphil> not as much a fan of those
[09:44] Action: daveake is shocked
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[09:55] <Ugi> Hi Guys! I see the tickets are out for the 2013 conference.
[09:56] <Ugi> Are they usually any good/well attended?
[09:56] <daveake> brilliant/yes
[09:56] <Ugi> Do you need to have actually launched to come?
[09:56] <Ugi> It'll be touch-and-go for me I should think!
[09:56] <Ugi> My stuff keeps breaking!
[09:57] <daveake> from the email ... "The UKHAS conference is open to anyone. "
[09:58] <Phil_M0DNY> Ugi: nope, as long as you're interested in hab and not just there for the food :P
[09:58] <Ugi> daveake: sorry - I must not be on the right mailing list yet 'cos I didn't get that e-mail.
[09:59] <Ugi> just happened to see on the UKHAS site
[09:59] <daveake> UKHAS mailing list
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[09:59] <x-f> Phil_M0DNY, but.. cakes!
[09:59] <UpuWork> Ugi anyone of any level or interest please come along
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[09:59] <UpuWork> in fact those of you who haven't launched may get more out of it
[10:00] <UpuWork> as you will have lots of people to speak too
[10:00] <UpuWork> like S_Mark for example
[10:00] <UpuWork> hi Mark
[10:00] <Ugi> Hopefully I will have managed at least one by then but it depends on many factors.
[10:00] <HixWork> what happened with sarantel then UpuWork
[10:00] <UpuWork> Gone bust
[10:00] <HixWork> bugger
[10:00] Action: x-f is investigating accomodation options in London.
[10:00] <UpuWork> immediate supply of antennas isn't an issue
[10:00] <Ugi> I'll speak to Mrs Ugi & see if she can handle the kid's taxiing that day.
[10:00] <Ugi> kids'
[10:01] <UpuWork> x-f we might be able to get student accomodation just asking now
[10:01] <x-f> ooh
[10:03] <HixWork> good location to test your GPS code too
[10:03] <HixWork> I'm lucky tho, I live just off the meridian
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[10:04] <daveake> Someone could do a workshop on common payload errors
[10:04] <daveake> "Walk with me and watch it break"
[10:04] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Baker "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference 7th September 2013"
[10:04] <mattbrejza> is that what jgc is doing?
[10:04] <Ugi> HixWork - that's a good point - I must take a trip out there once I think my code is working!
[10:04] <UpuWork> he's doing a slightly different one this yeah
[10:05] <daveake> Talk rather than workshop, but he could have a stooge outside for a live demo :)
[10:05] <mattbrejza> well hopefully not the same talk
[10:05] <UpuWork> no its a new talk
[10:05] <mattbrejza> new rpi talk, different subject this time?
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[10:05] <UpuWork> I am aware its the same people talking but we are trying to mix it up a bit
[10:06] <UpuWork> We have a list of people who want to talk
[10:06] <gonzo_mob> will the conf be streamed?
[10:06] <UpuWork> remotely as well
[10:06] <daveake> "Life of Pi 12012-2013"
[10:06] <UpuWork> Dan, Bill, Alain etc
[10:06] <HixWork> Babs is bringing stabilotron isnt he?
[10:06] <daveake> yep
[10:06] <UpuWork> Yes I hope to stream it
[10:06] <mattbrejza> i suppose if there are lots of people wanting to do talks on new stuff the current plan can be reworked
[10:06] <UpuWork> absolutely
[10:07] <HixWork> is there a google calendar of the day / schedule?
[10:07] <daveake> Then I can just do the pi workshop and not talk :)
[10:07] <gonzo_mob> rr. hope the internet holds up
[10:07] <eroomdeaway> i think my tolerance to the words 'raspberry pi' is falling by the second
[10:07] Nick change: eroomdeaway -> eroomde
[10:07] <UpuWork> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference2013
[10:07] <UpuWork> at the moment
[10:07] <daveake> lol eroomdeaway
[10:07] <daveake> lol eroomde then
[10:07] <eroomde> i will need two hours and the doors to the room will need to be locked before i start
[10:07] <eroomde> it won;t work as a talk at all
[10:08] <UpuWork> daveake just refer to it as Generic Cheap Educational Processing Unit
[10:08] <mattbrejza> how many rooms do we have this year?
[10:08] <UpuWork> 2
[10:08] <UpuWork> big ones
[10:08] <eroomde> please note ^
[10:08] <mattbrejza> it can be split up then
[10:08] <UpuWork> indeed
[10:09] <UpuWork> and some outside area too
[10:09] <UpuWork> lol Ed
[10:09] <UpuWork> Comment
[10:09] <UpuWork> you smell of upu
[10:09] <eroomde> i thought you would like it
[10:09] <UpuWork> and the tickets are selling well
[10:09] <eroomde> but yes, i think the gps talk is definitely more of a 2 hour (with a 5 min break in the middle) workshop
[10:09] <UpuWork> we have the ability to go over 50 people this year
[10:10] <eroomde> the idea is that you can hopefully go from not understanding gps to being able to make your own receiver
[10:10] <mattbrejza> well eroomde i suppose it depends at what point you have to start
[10:10] <UpuWork> price is based on 50 if we get more I'll refund as applicable
[10:10] <mattbrejza> but it is probably the beginning
[10:10] <eroomde> i will be starting at the beginning
[10:10] <eroomde> and i'll try and build one up in numpy as we go along
[10:10] <eroomde> at least that is the plan
[10:10] <fsphil> to make a GPS receiver, first you must invent the universe
[10:10] <HixWork> does this include launching your own satellites for your own gps netwrok ed
[10:11] <eroomde> no
[10:11] <eroomde> that would take more than 2 hours
[10:11] <HixWork> oh man.
[10:11] <Brace> HixWork: I'll be disappointed if that's not tha case
[10:11] <HixWork> :D
[10:11] <eroomde> i'd have to teach all of rocket science
[10:11] <fsphil> that's for 2014
[10:11] <HixWork> you could skip the launch monkey bit
[10:11] <mattbrejza> i thought that was partly last year too
[10:11] <eroomde> but i wuld hope that by the end of it you could have a stab and at least getting the gps sattelite bitstreams out with an ezcap dongle
[10:11] <gonzo_mob> z
[10:11] <fsphil> wake up gonzo_mob
[10:12] <HixWork> on a serious note, for me and I siuspect many others a code workshop would be a great benefit
[10:12] <gonzo_mob> heh. well i'm almost noddihg off
[10:13] <mattbrejza> i reckon i could give it a reasonable go now, but still not sure on the best way to align the DSSS codes and last time i tried a costas loop it didnt work too well
[10:13] <fsphil> I'm still at AM demodulation
[10:13] <eroomde> you should all come then
[10:13] <SpeedEvil> Early-late gate reciever is in principle just fine for lowish performance
[10:14] <mattbrejza> yea, just schedule the 'how not to fail at programming' aat the same time
[10:14] <SpeedEvil> http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gps.html
[10:15] <mattbrejza> you still need to align the spreading code correctly before E/L sync being relevent?
[10:15] <mattbrejza> i got E/L working quite nicely, not sure how optimum though
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> Err - no - you align the spreading code with early/late
[10:16] <eroomde> i'll be using an E/P/L discriminator for this talk
[10:16] <eroomde> for the code phase
[10:16] <SpeedEvil> you have a code generator that generates the code at n, and n+1
[10:16] <mattbrejza> lol this is why i need to come
[10:16] <eroomde> it's much easier with diagrams
[10:16] <eroomde> ascii sucks
[10:16] <SpeedEvil> you correlate the output with the code at N and n+1, and then you aim for having it at the same magnitude with each code.
[10:16] <mattbrejza> only learned DSSS atthe 'multiply RX by the code and it magically returns your signal'
[10:16] <mattbrejza> stage
[10:17] <SpeedEvil> You sync by 'slipping' the code-rate slightly.
[10:17] <SpeedEvil> Then PLL it using the early/late amount.
[10:17] <eroomde> just come to the talk ;)
[10:17] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference 7th September 2013"
[10:18] <mattbrejza> i shall
[10:18] <SpeedEvil> http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gif/bitsanim.gif
[10:19] <SpeedEvil> If you can - then do that. Sounds like a fun talk.
[10:20] <eroomde> I think i can do it without even talking about fourier transforms too. can do it entirely time domain
[10:20] <eroomde> won;t be very fast, but it'll work
[10:20] <SpeedEvil> You can make a GPS reciever with a small handfull of TTL chips.
[10:20] <mattbrejza> why would you need the DFT in the reciever anyway?
[10:21] <eroomde> cos having to explain the FT inside two hours (which i would - i really want this to be completely accessible to anyone) would be a push
[10:21] <eroomde> sorry the fft
[10:21] <SpeedEvil> That will output the bitstream from one satellite.
[10:21] <mattbrejza> also that gif makes it look easy, not sure how EL comes into it, but we can save that
[10:21] <eroomde> i think that gif is more just showing generally correlation
[10:21] <eroomde> and not really EL
[10:21] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: by the fact that if your clock drifts - one channel - the early or late channel - has a higher output.
[10:22] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: you can then use that to correct.
[10:22] <eroomde> the fft is useful just because of correlation in time domain vs multiplication in freq domain
[10:22] <eroomde> so it's a pretty standard thing to do the correlation in the freq domain
[10:22] <Babs> eroomde - you should do a practical demonstration at the conf of testing via throwing the package down a flight of stairs. It will be a short but practical demonstration.
[10:22] <eroomde> i have been tempted
[10:22] <eroomde> if i have a payload i'll hoof it across the stage
[10:22] <eroomde> how about
[10:22] <mattbrejza> oh right SpeedEvil
[10:22] <eroomde> then start talking about gps
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[10:24] <cuddykid> going to go ahead with launch tomorrow
[10:24] <gonzo_mob> do you have a rough time for launch?
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[10:27] <gonzo_mob> (looking at the wx, you may well have a rough time!)
[10:33] <cuddykid> gonzo_mob: hopefully around 12 :)
[10:33] <cuddykid> predictions look v good - http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=ed7ebba43c36f78e2143e7ed0e3d11e9ee09048c
[10:33] <cuddykid> just the weather that's the annoying bit
[10:34] <gonzo_mob> will be mid wales then. will have a listen
[10:35] <Ugi> That's a trememnous flight-path!
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[10:35] <cuddykid> yep :)
[10:35] <Ugi> Tremendous
[10:35] <UpuWork> awesome
[10:35] <gonzo_mob> though decode will have to be a mic against spkr job
[10:35] <cuddykid> similar to my 1st flight which landed only a few miles away
[10:36] <Ugi> shame I will be at work
[10:36] <Spiruel> Does anybody have a guide on working out when you have the right amount of helium in your balloon? (Using water bottle to calibrate free lift.)
[10:36] <eroomde> that's the guide
[10:36] <eroomde> you just said it
[10:36] <eroomde> use a water bottle
[10:37] <Spiruel> haha, ok XD
[10:37] <Babs> or a water butt in the case of BABSHAB
[10:37] <Spiruel> well, do I get a water bottle that weighs the same as the payload and free lift combined? And then when the balloon begins to hover with this weight, it's time to seal the balloon
[10:37] <eroomde> bingo
[10:37] <Babs> exactly Spiruel
[10:37] <HixWork> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data?s[]=balloon&s[]=calc
[10:37] <daveake> minus the filler weight
[10:37] <Spiruel> Thank you very much
[10:38] <eroomde> however the only detail would be that in practive we define 'begisn to hover' as being a very slight lift
[10:38] <Babs> just don't take advice from my on free lift, its not a specialist subject of mine
[10:38] <eroomde> it can be difficult to tell sometimes if there's a breeze
[10:38] <Ugi> I assumed you tied it to a weight on a scale and fill until it weighs less by the lift that you need. Never done it thou'
[10:38] <eroomde> the problem is wind
[10:38] <eroomde> if you do that you're not measureing just lift
[10:39] <HixWork> I was thinking that you could have a filler with a dry-break fitted to it so removing the hose was a simple op. plus you can factor the weight of the known filler adaptor
[10:39] <eroomde> you're also measuring, modoulo some trigonometry, the force of the wind acting on the balloon
[10:39] <daveake> This happened to me on my 2nd flight. Part of the lift was the wind actiing on the balloon. So I underfilled. It landed 10 miles out to sea.
[10:39] <eroomde> so with the bag of crap attached method, you can kind of let the balloon go with the wind a bit and still see if it's going up or down
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[10:41] <Ugi> so you tie Balloon - weight - string - more weight & see if balloon + first weight hovers?
[10:41] <mfa298> with a prediction like that you should be seeing if you can get the landing spot even closer to the launch location.
[10:41] <eroomde> Ugi: not sure what you mean
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[10:41] <eroomde> that sounds too complicated
[10:42] <Ugi> Not to worry - I'll check the wiki when I get that close to launching
[10:42] <eroomde> just attach some weight your your balloon neck during fill (,imus the weight of the fill tube) so that the total weight hanging off the neck is the same as the amount of lift you calculated that you want
[10:42] <eroomde> minus*
[10:42] <cuddykid> 06 run is just in on predictions & even better& http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=85751db06b7ecdcdd8ed42769f92bf0ff6f395f3
[10:43] <Ugi> You'll have to add a deck-chair and binoculars to your lauch-kit that day!
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[10:43] <daveake> The burst calculator gives you "neck lift". Might be say 2.2kg for a 1kg payload. Say your filler weighs 300g. Now the balloon needs to be able to lift the filler plus an attached weight of 2.2 - 0.3 = 1.9kg. So you fill a water bottle to weigh that, and tie it to the filler. Then fill till the balloon can just lift this lot in no breeze (or let go if there is a breeze and see if it goes up or down)
[10:44] <cuddykid> Ugi: shame it's going to be cloudy!
[10:44] <daveake> When the balloon movement is level or slightly up, add 3 more Stirks and tie it all off :)
[10:45] <cuddykid> it's tough judging it
[10:45] <cuddykid> last time I was wary that I almost lost previous flight due to ridiculously slow ascent so overfilled it
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[10:45] <daveake> Well wind is a problem, but usually it drops enough to be able to measure
[10:46] <Ugi> it's not possible to predict from amount of He added or balloon diameter or similar?
[10:46] <cuddykid> it's hard to judge the filling kit weight too
[10:47] <daveake> Yes you can measure the gas going in
[10:47] <eroomde> Ugi: try measuring the diameter then get back to us
[10:47] <daveake> CUSF have such a device
[10:47] <fsphil> measuring the gas going in is probably the best way
[10:47] <cuddykid> yep
[10:47] <fsphil> but it's not a simple thing
[10:47] <cuddykid> that would be good
[10:47] <eroomde> yes it is
[10:47] <eroomde> it's really very simple
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[10:48] <fsphil> expensive?
[10:48] <eroomde> i could design one in about 15 minutes. there are several i have made for rocket propellant mass flows on our rig currently. it's just that you probably want some decent machining and decent differential sensors
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[10:48] <HixWork> wasn't someone looking into Dive gear to meausre flow. Darkside's mate iirc
[10:48] <eroomde> which puts the BoM for a simple one at around £200
[10:48] <fsphil> hmm
[10:48] <Darkside> HixWork: yes
[10:48] <HixWork> any info?
[10:48] <Darkside> not really
[10:48] <Darkside> juxta is the person to ask
[10:48] <HixWork> k
[10:49] <Darkside> he isnt online righ tnow
[10:49] <Babs> We put stones in a bucket and hung that below. Then, when we think we are done and it is floating and also lifting the filling pipe, detach the pipe and put that in the bucket too.
[10:49] <HixWork> just put a dry-break inline, much easier to disconnect the pipe then
[10:50] <eroomde> yes, we have that on our fill rig too
[10:50] <eroomde> we = cusf which is not really 'we' anymore as i have left
[10:50] <eroomde> but seriously, mass flow is pretty easy and it's not so much about finding your mate bob who can give you a black box and say 'this does it'
[10:51] <eroomde> it can be done with orifice plates
[10:51] <eroomde> so you can by a plate with a carefully sized and machine hole in the middle off the shelf
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[10:51] <eroomde> you can then get orifice flow meter lookup tables which will tell you to put one pressure sensors say 1cm upstream and another pressure sensor say 2cm downstream
[10:52] <eroomde> and then give you a big polynomial you can use to get mass-flow from the absolute and differntial pressure readings
[10:52] <eroomde> for a given gas
[10:52] <HixWork> same as a pitot static in essence?
[10:52] <eroomde> yes, same instrumentation
[10:52] <HixWork> nice
[10:53] <fsphil> so yea I'm still going with the not simple thing
[10:53] <HixWork> got some links? I may be able to design and make this
[10:53] <eroomde> it's all in BS books
[10:53] <eroomde> british standard rather than not-very-good
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[10:53] <eroomde> will hunt online
[10:53] <HixWork> was wondering :)
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[10:53] <eroomde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orifice_plate
[10:53] <HixWork> I';ve got access to BSOL, what am i searching for specifically
[10:54] <eroomde> you could probably make one as a kit-of-parts from swagelok
[10:54] <HixWork> ahh that then
[10:54] <Babs> good tip hixwork.
[10:54] <HixWork> in the words of the virgin mary: come again :)
[10:56] <HixWork> Babs, lost me there?
[10:58] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Baker "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference 7th September 2013"
[10:58] <eroomde> HixWork: BS1042
[10:59] <Ugi> You couldn't just adapt a standard welding argon flow meter? Lower density of He will be relelvant but must be possible to re-calibrate.
[10:59] <Ugi> maybe flow is too low
[11:00] <eroomde> do welding rigs have flow meters?
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[11:00] <eroomde> this is news to me
[11:00] <HixWork> cheers eroomde
[11:00] <eroomde> it's old but physics is still physics
[11:00] <Ugi> This type of thing: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140995854887
[11:01] <eroomde> ah right
[11:01] <eroomde> that looks maybe a bit coarse to me
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[11:01] <eroomde> and you'd have to integrate it visually anyway
[11:01] <Ugi> true - I was thinking along the lines of set it to a certain flow and time it
[11:02] <eroomde> yes, that's a good idea in principle
[11:02] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference 7th September 2013"
[11:02] <HixWork> BS 1042-2.2:1983, ISO 7145:1982
[11:02] <HixWork> Measurement of fluid flow in closed conduits. Velocity area methods. Method of measurement of velocity at one point of a conduit of circular cross section
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[11:02] <eroomde> but it would be nice to just have a pressure sensor thing and wrap a microcontroller and valve around it
[11:02] <eroomde> so you can say 'give me 2 m^3'
[11:02] <eroomde> and then go off and eat a bacon buttie
[11:02] <eroomde> or perform some other hab ritual
[11:03] <Ugi> I agree that is much more stylish
[11:03] <Ugi> if you have the budget etc
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[11:05] <daveake> There's always a bacon budget
[11:05] <HixWork> link to that stansard if anyone wants https://www.dropbox.com/s/sut88d0nd6rgybt/BS1042.pdf?m
[11:05] <fsphil> mmmm
[11:09] <mattbrejza> any recommendations on box building materials that one can easily pick up in store?
[11:10] <Babs> hixwork - way back up (was away from my desk) "just put a dry-break inline, much easier to disconnect the pipe then" - good tip
[11:11] <Babs> mattbrejza - polystyrene ceiling tiles are a good option
[11:11] <mattbrejza> then next issue is making it box shaped
[11:11] <Babs> blue polystyrene however beats it hands down. flakes less, cuts better, and its not got pimplies
[11:11] <mattbrejza> could go for layers of that thick foam stuff people use
[11:12] <mattbrejza> and cut out layers
[11:12] <mattbrejza> i couldnt find somewhere to buy the blue polystene stuff though
[11:13] <Babs> http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/7329586332/in/set-72157629918448066 - this was metal backed polystyrene that could be built up (although I am not sure whether the layers of metal might block GPS) - wasn't an issue for this one
[11:13] <Babs> built up in layers
[11:13] <Babs> dead easy and a square box
[11:13] <Babs> hot weld glued together
[11:13] <mattbrejza> hmm the wiki needs a gallery of boxes
[11:14] <Ugi> I have one of these at home: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200929186825
[11:14] <Ugi> would that make a box?
[11:15] <Babs> make sure you know when enough cutting of polystyrene is enough though. One can get obsessive about it. http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8622543326/in/set-72157632733154985
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[11:15] <Babs> These also work if your payload is small enough http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B006UERW6A/ref=pe_217191_31005151_3p_M3_dp_1
[11:15] <mattbrejza> yea im not going htat far Babs :P
[11:16] <mattbrejza> yea its not that small
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[11:16] <Babs> I think Upu has used those balls extensively
[11:16] <mattbrejza> any idea where steve gets the material for these from? http://www.flickr.com/photos/16828840@N07/8455732839/
[11:16] <Babs> S_Mark has a good guide on stratodean.co.uk, and a video of him putting it together
[11:17] <Babs> i think that is just sheets of blue polystyrene and a nice scalpel to cut them up
[11:17] <mattbrejza> is that just from B&Q?
[11:18] <mattbrejza> the sheet?
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[11:18] <daveake> Not sure if they have it, but it's for underfloor insulation
[11:19] <daveake> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Underfloor-Heating-Insulation-Board-6mm-/180590961383?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&var=&hash=item2a0c0f62e7
[11:19] <mattbrejza> ah thanks
[11:19] <daveake> That link is think stuff but it comes in a few thicknesses
[11:19] <daveake> thin
[11:19] <mattbrejza> although need to find in B&Q/wicks
[11:19] <daveake> I tried Wickes and couldn't find it
[11:20] <cuddykid> mattbrejza: try hindleys
[11:20] <cuddykid> I use that stuff for all my boxes
[11:20] <daveake> Much easier to work with than the white stuff
[11:20] <cuddykid> not sure how he gets the holes to be so smooth though
[11:20] <Darkside> hot wire?
[11:20] <Babs> guide to polystyrene different types http://www.antenocitisworkshop.com/news/blue-foam-pink-foam-foamboard-and-styrofoam/
[11:20] <daveake> Dunno. For small holes I use pastry cutters
[11:21] <cuddykid> Darkside: doesn't tend to look that neat though
[11:21] <Darkside> does mrs dave pprove?
[11:21] <Darkside> approve*
[11:21] <Babs> hindleys! yes. i got mine from there.
[11:21] <HixWork> pair of compasses with a scalpel blade for circles
[11:21] <cuddykid> yeah, hindleys are very good
[11:21] <daveake> So long as I don't cover the carpet in white bits, she doesn't mind :)
[11:21] <Babs> even if cut roughly, you can dremel the hole smooth
[11:21] <daveake> I bought the pastry cutters they are mine :)
[11:21] <mattbrejza> hindleys the shop in sheffild?
[11:22] <cuddykid> mattbrejza: http://www.hindleys.com/index.php/materials/plastics-foam/sheet/styrofoam-high-density-polystyrene-foam.html
[11:23] <cuddykid> each big sheet is at least 2 normal payload boxes
[11:23] <mattbrejza> interesting to ship something so big though
[11:24] <Ugi> pack it in polystyrene it'll be fine
[11:30] <x-f> see: loop, endless
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[11:35] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Should get a good signal from you tomorrow, only about 5 miles away in Stourport!
[11:35] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[11:41] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: It gets made in big 1.2*1.2*2.4m or so lozenges. It'd be fun to be able to get those
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[11:51] <cuddykid> nice Geoff-G8DHE !
[11:51] <cuddykid> have they finally put out that big fire now?
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[12:13] <ibanezmatt13> Tracker has been running perfectly for 10 minutes now. If it reaches 30 minutes, I know that it was definitely the batteries that were the issue
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[12:16] <ibanezmatt13> S_Mark, with your payload box, did you not need heat sinks for your equipment? Did they not melt the foam?
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[12:18] <cuddykid> daveake: have you had experience of switching cylinders mid filling?
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[12:19] <ibanezmatt13> that's an interesting question. I've been wondering what to do in that instance :)
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> t them?
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[12:20] <zyp> do you have to do something in particular?
[12:21] <daveake> cuddykid yep a few times
[12:21] <zyp> close valves, remove regulator from old one, put regulator on new one, resume filling
[12:21] <cuddykid> daveake: any problems or is it just a simple switch over?
[12:21] <cuddykid> do you tie off balloon whilst switching?
[12:22] <daveake> Close reg valve and tank valve / remove reg / put on new cylinder / open tank valve / open reg valve
[12:22] <cuddykid> nice :)
[12:23] <cuddykid> was worried that all the gas would come out balloon or something!
[12:24] <daveake> nope
[12:25] <zyp> all the gas floats to the top, so as long as you keep the neck pointing down there's no problem
[12:26] <ibanezmatt13> Depending on how things go, we're looking to launch in either 3.5 weeks, or 6 weeks (we have a holiday in between). We're also gonna go for a 1200g balloon, and we'll be launching down at Cambridge
[12:27] <ibanezmatt13> Aiming for an 800g payload, but I'm not sure how that's gonna go until I have the box sorted
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[12:29] <Brian_> can anyone recommend a place in the UK to source a polystyrene payload box?
[12:29] <ibanezmatt13> Brian_, Here's a good site to get the material to make your own http://www.hindleys.com/index.php/materials/plastics-foam/sheet/styrofoam-high-density-polystyrene-foam/styrofoam-sheet-600mm-x-1245mm-x-25mm.html :)
[12:30] <ibanezmatt13> They also do the 50mm variant
[12:30] <Brian_> excellent thanks, i'm guessing the 50mm would be better for impact?
[12:31] <ibanezmatt13> Most probably
[12:31] <ibanezmatt13> That's what was used on Stratodean's project: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MePTSX0Wx1w
[12:31] <ibanezmatt13> thw 25mm that is
[12:33] <daveake> 25mm is plenty
[12:33] <ibanezmatt13> there you go :)
[12:33] <Brian_> nice thank guys, also re tracking after chatting with david akerman i'm going to go for a uBLOX MAX-6 and RADIOMETRIX - NTX2 what else do I need?
[12:34] <ibanezmatt13> Err, you got any voltage regulators sorted?
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[12:34] <daveake> I generally use the 10m. I just made a hooge box (23cm cube) for a school so they have plenty of space for decoration and putting things inside, and I used 25mm for that as the sheets are so large
[12:34] <daveake> 10mm
[12:35] <daveake> powweerrr
[12:35] <Brian_> thanks dave
[12:35] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, how should I consider empty space in the box for heat dissipation? Also, do the components need heat sinks?
[12:36] <daveake> Remind me .. model A?
[12:36] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[12:36] <ibanezmatt13> powering a pi cam
[12:36] <Brian_> as an educational tool I would like to send something up like the pongsats project for my childs class would this be feasible?
[12:36] <daveake> You'll be fine
[12:36] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: if by cambridge for launching you meant the CUSF (University) site, you might want to check people will be around. Uni's tend to finish their terms a lot earlier than schools / colleges.
[12:36] <ibanezmatt13> great, won't it melt the foam, somebody mentioned that?
[12:36] <daveake> B gets warmer but still OK.
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[12:36] <daveake> No, that was me using 8 AAs through a linear regulator on my first Pi flight :p
[12:37] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, I'm not sure what we're doing yet, but I think somebody said about somewhere that's always open on weekends
[12:37] <ibanezmatt13> I may need to go for 8 AAs too to be safe daveake
[12:37] <ibanezmatt13> unless you used a model b
[12:37] <Brian_> ibanezmatt13: are you near cambridge then?
[12:37] <daveake> noooo
[12:37] <ibanezmatt13> Brian_, nowhere near :p
[12:37] <ibanezmatt13> Wigan
[12:38] <Brian_> ahh
[12:38] <Brian_> i'm going to use a model B pi
[12:38] <ibanezmatt13> Just thought that there will be more people nearby to track it and hopefully I may be able to have some people local available to help me prepare seen as it's my first time...
[12:38] <daveake> Use a model A, please :)
[12:39] <Brian_> ahh will be my first time as well
[12:39] <Brian_> why the A dave?
[12:39] <ibanezmatt13> Brian_, the model B is fine so long as you have the adequate power supply. This means extra weight so I would be inclined to follow Dave's idea of the Model A
[12:39] <daveake> 1/3rd of the power
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[12:39] <Brian_> oh
[12:39] <daveake> fewer battteries less weight less heat more run time
[12:39] <ibanezmatt13> I got one from CPC for £20
[12:40] <daveake> I got one from RS for £0
[12:40] <ibanezmatt13> lucky...
[12:40] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[12:40] <Brian_> would that power from 4 energizer lithiums with voltage regulation then
[12:40] <ibanezmatt13> Brian_, Have you already sorted out some voltage regulators?
[12:40] <daveake> ibanezmatt13, and a free Pi cam :p
[12:40] <ibanezmatt13> If not, I would reccomend http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-LM2596-DC-Buck-Step-Down-Voltage-Adjustable-Converter-Power-Module-Regulator/150841422837?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D8509908595980734016%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D150841422837%26
[12:41] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, I paid £30 for my Pi Cam in desperation of owning one before they were resold!
[12:41] <Brian_> nice i'll order a couple now
[12:41] <daveake> eek
[12:41] <daveake> I tried for more but they could only find one :p
[12:41] <ibanezmatt13> I've got two, one for 3.3v for ublox and ntx2, the other for 5v for Pi
[12:42] <daveake> Yeah I ordered 5 of those last week forgetting I already had 5 spares :p
[12:42] <ibanezmatt13> They're really efficient and produce very little heat compared to some linear ones
[12:42] <Brian_> I may have to pick your brains about the tracking side of things ;)
[12:42] <ibanezmatt13> feel free :)
[12:43] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: that sounds reasonable, just wanted to make sure you werent relying on the uni site
[12:43] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, somebody forwarned me about that too. Wouldn't have been great turning up with nowhere to launch after a 4 hour drive :p
[12:44] <Brian_> /msg ibanezmatt13 hi
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[12:45] <ibanezmatt13> hi :) Don't think that worked
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[12:45] <mfa298> i think that might be called a public private message
[12:45] <ibanezmatt13> never heard of that, what's that for
[12:46] <ibanezmatt13> :
[12:46] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[12:46] <mfa298> when you make a mistake sending s private message
[12:46] <Brian_> lol
[12:46] <Brian_> doh
[12:47] <mfa298> Brian_: people do a lot worse by mistake
[12:48] <Brian_> phew good job I was only saying h
[12:49] <mfa298> luckily I think I've only typed my password on private servers so far
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[12:58] <ibanezmatt13_> Brian_, sorry, internet
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[13:15] <Brian_> what handheld radio reciever do people recommend?
[13:16] <Darkside> Icom IC-R10 if you can get one
[13:16] <Darkside> they are out of production
[13:16] <Darkside> can sometimes find them secondhand for about AUD$200
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[13:17] <Brian_> £148 on ebay but no power supply
[13:18] <Darkside> its battery powered
[13:18] <Brian_> would this do the trick http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/yaesu_ft-60_dual_band_2m_70cm_handheld-p-399.html
[13:18] <Darkside> no
[13:18] <mfa298> mvt-7100 seems to be recommended as well - still not done a comparison myself
[13:18] <Darkside> to receive HABs you need sideband reception
[13:18] <daveake> I've tried the IC-R10, AOR Ar800, and Yupiteru MVT-7100. I still have the ICOM and I rate them in that order
[13:18] <Darkside> yeah, i had a MVT-7100
[13:18] <Darkside> i killed it trying to tap out the IF :(
[13:18] <daveake> ha
[13:19] <daveake> The AOR is the bestmade one, but the ICOM is smaller and has the aerial attenuator
[13:19] <Darkside> it's actually manual control over the AGC
[13:19] <Darkside> but it has the same effect
[13:19] <mfa298> My main reason for getting the mvt was when everyone was talking about 868 payloads.
[13:19] <daveake> Paid £86 for mine
[13:19] <daveake> ok
[13:20] <Darkside> well the R10 will cover those too :-)
[13:20] <daveake> handy hint: if it sometimes switches off, check the springy connectors that take power from the battery board to the main board
[13:20] <Darkside> we use the R10's for foxhunting competitions
[13:20] <Darkside> as it covers 80m right through to 23cm in the one unit
[13:20] <Darkside> bloody excellent device
[13:20] <Brian_> there's a few MVT-7100 on ebay
[13:20] <Darkside> my only gripe with it is the BNC socket
[13:21] <Brian_> ahh ok i'll watcha c ouple of auctions
[13:21] <Darkside> good idea
[13:22] <daveake> tbh any of them will do tehe job just fine. Don't pay more than £100 just wait for another one
[13:22] <mfa298> I think my mvt was £60-70
[13:22] <daveake> I made a profit on my MVT, and the AOR
[13:22] <mfa298> but it took a few non wins to get that price
[13:22] <daveake> yeah, patience is key
[13:22] <daveake> these things are popular sometimes bidders get "I want it" fever
[13:22] <Darkside> heh
[13:23] <Darkside> one of our team members has about 8 IC-R10s
[13:23] <daveake> !!
[13:23] <Darkside> yep
[13:23] <daveake> OK, I'll bite. Why?
[13:23] <Darkside> foxhunring
[13:23] <Darkside> foxhunting*
[13:23] <Darkside> one hooked into the DF rig permanently
[13:23] <Darkside> one as a threat receiver
[13:24] <Darkside> a couple for handheld sniffing receivers
[13:24] <Darkside> and a few spares
[13:24] <daveake> hah
[13:24] <Darkside> http://pipe2.darklomax.org/pics/2011-05-21_Foxhunting_Prep/Pages/5.html
[13:24] <Darkside> see that one next to the RDF display?
[13:24] <Darkside> that got modded so the attenuator knob is brought out to a separate box
[13:24] <Darkside> thats a one-way mod
[13:24] <Brian_> ok i've given myself 3 months so will wait it out for a good price
[13:25] <Darkside> so that R10 is now permanently a DF unit :P
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[13:32] <BenBancroft> does habitat support unit conversions, such as temperature as an int into a float?
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[13:33] <Darkside> join #habhub
[13:33] <Darkside> and ask there
[13:33] <mattbrejza> you dont need to worry about datatypes like int/float
[13:33] <mattbrejza> but you can apply linear scaling on values
[13:34] <mattbrejza> as defined in the payload doc
[13:35] <BenBancroft> so I could set it to divide my integer temp by 1000 to get it into a readable format?
[13:35] <mattbrejza> yea
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[13:53] <HixWork> daveake, why are them regulators used for the Pi over an LDO vreg?
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[13:54] <Darkside> efficiency
[13:54] <daveake> and you can get more runtime by putting a couple of extra batteries in series
[13:55] <zyp> an LDO reduces voltage by burning up excess power
[13:55] <daveake> With an LDO that just creates heat
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[13:55] <Ugi> Do you guys find you need to smooth LM2596 based reg's a lot?
[13:55] <Ugi> Looked at mine on the 'scope and it was pretty messy
[13:56] <daveake> I do use an LDO sometimes - you can get a lower dropout voltage making it possible to run from 4 AAAs
[13:56] <HixWork> ah ok. So if you are putting in close to the outputV you are less inefficient with an LDO?
[13:56] <daveake> Yup
[13:56] <HixWork> cool
[13:57] <eroomde> is it a switcher you've layed out yourself?
[13:57] <daveake> This was with no 5V devices, so the Pi ran from 3.3V on both 3.3 and 5V rails
[13:57] <Ugi> my messy one? no just a cheapy off ebay
[13:57] <HixWork> I got some D2Pack 5 3v3 Regs rated to 2A for the GSM boards
[13:57] <daveake> The LDO in question is an MCP1825S which really is an "L" DO
[13:58] <daveake> I've not looked at the switcher output on a scope but the NTX2 output was fine
[13:59] <Ugi> without smoothing it there was close to 100mV p-p noise when drawing 300mA IIRC
[13:59] <HixWork> what is classsed as low, from the NCP5662 sheet 3v3 varies between 0.73 to 0.85 @2A
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[14:01] <daveake> HixWork Something like 0.15V @ 0.5A IIRC
[14:01] <HixWork> whoa
[14:01] <HixWork> see what you mean then
[14:02] <daveake> I had 3V going into the reg and the Pi still booted and ran fine
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[14:02] <daveake> A model A tracker should be less than 0.15A with a tad of power saving
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[14:07] <HixWork> GSM board quotes 2A when sending SMS
[14:07] <HixWork> !
[14:07] Nick change: Maxell_ -> maxell
[14:07] <daveake> Big cap
[14:07] Nick change: maxell -> Maxell
[14:07] <daveake> It's very peaky
[14:07] <HixWork> SMS?
[14:08] <daveake> Yes. Watch on a meter you won't get 2A for long., especially if you've got a reasonable signal level
[14:08] <cuddykid> yay - BBC have revised the weather forecast for tomorrow - no longer rain!
[14:09] <daveake> :)
[14:10] <Ugi> But have they revised the wind directions too?
[14:10] <cuddykid> only thing that can let me down now is the Pawan& dun dun, dun dun
[14:10] <cuddykid> Ugi: fortunately not :)
[14:10] <Ugi> good stuff!
[14:10] <HixWork> cool, was starting to think that if it was hunting and trying to send repeatedly it would kill eAAs
[14:11] <HixWork> Pawan sounds like the word for colourful websites and magazines used by the natives in this part of the country
[14:13] <daveake> Well I've run a flight with 3G which was being used to stream video from launch and landing, plus send telemetry. That lot plus Pi plus webcam ran from 6 AAs, with plenty enough capacity for the flight
[14:13] <daveake> SMS will use a lot less power
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[14:24] <mikestir> daveake: out of interest, how high did the 3G get, or did you shut it down to avoid interference?
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[14:24] <Babs> Afternoon all - lots (well 3) of servos connected to arduino. Clearly won't be able to powered off the arduino board, or least it will cause havoc with varying levels of current draw. General solution would be white (control) wire to arduino output pin, then red and black linked in series with a battery pack?
[14:25] <daveake> The video dropped out at 300m ASL
[14:25] <daveake> Which is 100m up
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[14:27] <mikestir> wow. that's even lower than I would have guessed!
[14:27] <daveake> me too
[14:28] <mattbrejza> impressive 3G antenna design
[14:30] <mikestir> definitely. unless the RAN did something clever and shut you down on purpose for popping up across a wide area
[14:31] <daveake> I doubt it was seen by any others at that height round here
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[14:47] <cuddykid> ping UpuWork
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[14:51] <fsphil> was that with a 3G antenna?
[14:51] <fsphil> or just the one built into the dongle?
[14:52] <daveake> latter
[14:53] <Phil_M0DNY> Theoretically you'll probably only get 10-20m more with a decent omni antenna.
[14:53] <fsphil> yea, the limit is the ground antennas
[15:01] <mfa298> does that mean one of the next launch criteria will be based on the cell. (presumably cell size and distance from the cell mast)
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[15:08] <Phil_M0DNY> Well one idea I did have was to have a large enough steered metal reflector at the launch site to reflect the signal from the towers up to the balloon and vice-versa.
[15:09] <Phil_M0DNY> But steering could not be accurate enough.
[15:11] <fsphil> easier just to get a big 2.4ghz antenna
[15:11] <fsphil> use slow wifi
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[15:18] <mfa298> ip over rtty
[15:19] <fsphil> wonder if it would be possible to get enough speed on 434mhz to do some low bitrate video
[15:19] <fsphil> assuming a nice big antenna on the ground
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[15:22] <mfa298> could be interesting.
[15:23] <mfa298> sounds like we need some faster baud payloads to try and determine what limits we might have
[15:24] <mfa298> although moving to QAM/QPSK might be better - if possible
[15:24] <Randomskk> bpsk better than qam I suspect
[15:24] <Randomskk> for our link conditions
[15:24] <Randomskk> be fun to experiment though
[15:25] <mfa298> the other challenge could be having the compute power in a lightweight payload to encode and modulate a suitable signal
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[15:26] <Randomskk> mm
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[15:28] <eroomde> Randomskk: this machine is lovely4
[15:28] <mattbrejza> depends whether we think we are bandwidth or power limited
[15:28] <eroomde> the old thinkpad which has just arrived
[15:29] <eroomde> i'm impressed.
[15:30] <Randomskk> nice
[15:31] <HixWork> X220 was it?
[15:31] <eroomde> x200s
[15:31] <HixWork> that was it
[15:31] <eroomde> with a squarish screen
[15:32] <HixWork> they are excellent. My nephew has my x60s and hasn;t managed to detroy it at all
[15:32] <Brian_> for a project for my childs school i'd like to give a class of children the opportunity to send something small up with the balloon to see the effects of objects in near space, how feasible would this be? would I need to use one payload box for the computing stuff and the other for the objects or just one big one?
[15:33] <eroomde> it depends on what you want to send up
[15:33] <eroomde> please please, not teddybears
[15:33] <eroomde> in the past we have used one flight computer box and had the thing under experiment out on an arm
[15:33] <daveake> I can see I'm going to annoy you again soon :p
[15:33] <Brian_> no ha, seeds, sweets each one will be in a small pod theres was a similar project done pongsats i think it was called
[15:33] <eroomde> really!?
[15:34] <daveake> Drop Bear for a local school
[15:34] <eroomde> it's like tech-blog-optimised habbing
[15:34] <eroomde> but yes it's for a school so all is allowed
[15:34] <eroomde> but...
[15:34] <eroomde> still sigh
[15:34] <fsphil> sweets
[15:34] <Brian_> it was an example lol
[15:34] <daveake> it's for chaaarity
[15:35] <eroomde> well that's alright then
[15:36] <Brian_> you dont think its a good idea?
[15:36] <eroomde> teddy bears?
[15:36] <eroomde> oh sweets and seeds
[15:36] <eroomde> no that seems like a good idea
[15:37] <eroomde> the effect of near-space on actual things is quite interesting
[15:37] <fsphil> bottle of water
[15:37] <eroomde> my wail of anguish was that i thought the teddy-bear thing had finally died
[15:37] <eroomde> alas
[15:38] <daveake> Well the bear has its own tracker and will be dropped, so that's a teeny weeny bit different
[15:38] <daveake> I did the same sigh when they suggested a bear
[15:38] <eroomde> (we actually did that too)
[15:38] <daveake> well I shall change my plans forthwith :p
[15:38] <Brian_> no i won't be doing bears don't worry
[15:38] <eroomde> just sans media coverage over the ridiculous bollocks of teddy-bear 1
[15:39] <daveake> and they are filling the box with whatever they come up with
[15:39] <eroomde> which kind of put me off the whole thing forever
[15:39] <fsphil> you just can't bear it anymore
[15:39] <eroomde> it knocked the stuffing out of me
[15:39] <eroomde> END OF PUNS
[15:40] <eroomde> Brian_: marshmallows and crisp packets are fun
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[15:41] <eroomde> you can see them expand/burst if you take a photo every minute or so
[15:42] <Brian_> sounds good i'll add that to the list of ideas
[15:42] <eroomde> you could also, if they're up to it, fly an ice cube
[15:42] <eroomde> because at low pressures it should go directly from solid to vapour
[15:43] <Brian_> nice
[15:43] <eroomde> i.e. you might be at -50 but that's still above the melting point because it's a function of pressure
[15:44] <eroomde> so you can see the ice cube getting smaller in the photos
[15:44] <eroomde> obviously it's good to log temp
[15:44] <Brian_> i'll give that a try
[15:44] <HixWork> Tomato has to be worth some entertainment value
[15:44] <eroomde> you could take an actual raspberry pi
[15:44] <eroomde> and have it freeze into a solid discus
[15:45] <eroomde> and drop it over the gizmodo uk headquaters
[15:45] <Brian_> got spare one then?
[15:45] <eroomde> and hope it cracks open the head of one of their editors
[15:45] <Brian_> ha
[15:45] <fsphil> let it all out
[15:45] Action: HixWork has just thought of a method for terribly costly dehydrated expedition foods
[15:46] <fsphil> don't hold it in :)
[15:46] <LeoBodnar> I can't stand the words "Raspbery Pi" anymore.
[15:46] <Spiruel> This may seem like a really silly question... But what's the best way to connect nylon cord to the polystyrene payload box? Should I cut two holes, loop the cord through them and tie a knot?
[15:46] <fsphil> I put two loops around the box and duct tape them
[15:46] <HixWork> you misse dout gaffa, there has to be gaffa there somewhere
[15:47] <HixWork> see :)
[15:47] <LeoBodnar> Use Kapton tape for airspace look :)
[15:47] <Spiruel> And is it worth attaching four cords from the parachute to the box - a cord connected to each corner, to prevent twisting/swaying?
[15:48] <eroomde> no
[15:48] <eroomde> and don;t have the parachute that close to the payload box
[15:48] <eroomde> better to have a clearance of say 10 forebody diameters between the payload box and the chute
[15:49] <Spiruel> thanks very much
[15:49] <eroomde> hopefully you parachute has more than 4 lines too?
[15:49] <eroomde> (the reason for the above is just that the forebody will likely produce turbulence which you don;t want to affect your chute)
[15:50] <fsphil> there's also a chance of it wrapping around the payload box if it's too close
[15:50] <fsphil> catching on to the antenna or something silly
[15:51] <Spiruel> OK
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[15:51] <Spiruel> fsphil: When you talk about two loops round the box, do you mean like cord around a present box?
[15:52] <HixWork> is a swivel between the balloon and payload effective?
[15:53] <eroomde> i think babs liked his
[15:53] <eroomde> it might save some major tanglage
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[15:53] <eroomde> but major tanglage is a sign that something is probably not designed right
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[15:56] <fsphil> Spiruel: I have the payload sitting on two loops of cord, tied together at the top. difficult to describe, and I don't have a decent photo. https://secure.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/8449921745/in/set-72157624515320914
[15:57] <Spiruel> ahh, that makes sense, thankyou
[15:58] <Babs> bearings between balloon and payload make a lot of sense based on my comprehensive data set of 2 flights, one with, one without
[15:58] <HixWork> sold
[15:58] <Babs> one conclusion I have reached however which I think is pretty inarguable to knock down is that three anchor points for cord on the payload is better than 4
[15:59] <HixWork> did you use sdandard fishing swivels?
[15:59] <HixWork> 3 is the magic number, oh yes it is
[15:59] <Babs> working on the chair principle upside down. ie a three leg chair never rocks, a four legged chair will always wobble
[15:59] <Babs> brb
[16:00] <HixWork> tri explaining that again
[16:00] <fsphil> oh dear
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[16:19] <chrisstubbs> Are the tickets for ukhas actual tickets or is it just a guest list?
[16:20] <eroomde> don;t know for sure this year, has always just been a guest list before
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[16:25] <eroomde> overheard in the corner of the lab from iain who is stuck in a dependancy hell
[16:25] <number10> you dont get an actual ticket - just a confirmation by email of the order
[16:25] <eroomde> "NONE OF THIS IS ENGINEERING!?!"
[16:26] <number10> sounds like he is having a bad couple of days
[16:29] <Upu-> chrisstubbs just a list I don't post tickets out
[16:30] <chrisstubbs> Okay cool, just wondering becuase i got the dispatched email :P
[16:30] <Upu-> ah ok yes maybe that is confusing
[16:30] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - HABE Lab - Friday 21st June - Worcester"
[16:37] <chrisstubbs> Will have to throw together another cat cable to track adams flight from work tommorow
[16:40] <nigelvh> Morning Evening People.
[16:41] <daveake> Evening morning person
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[16:45] <WILLdude> Hi
[16:45] <nigelvh> How's things in the land of not here.
[16:45] <nigelvh> ?
[16:46] <WILLdude> Wha?
[16:48] <nigelvh> I'm in the US, not the UK, so I'm asking how's it going to everyone.
[16:48] <arko> USA USA!
[16:48] <arko> s/U/N/
[16:50] <nigelvh> Something like that.
[16:50] <WILLdude> YOU-ESS-AYY
[16:52] <nigelvh> It's pronounced UHMEHRIKUH!!!
[16:52] <arko> you get a complimentary bald eagle when you become a naturalized citizen
[16:53] <daveake> free donuts for life?
[16:53] <arko> yep
[16:53] <daveake> sign me up
[16:53] <arko> x_______________
[16:53] <arko> sign above
[16:53] <arko> just sign your screen with a sharpy
[16:53] <arko> err
[16:53] <arko> sharpie
[16:53] <daveake> Done
[16:54] <nigelvh> Sharpie (R) (TM)
[16:54] <daveake> It won't come off the screen now
[16:54] <arko> well you commited
[16:54] <arko> why would you want to turn back
[16:54] <nigelvh> Dry erase markers are magical at removing sharpie.
[16:54] <arko> ^
[16:54] <arko> true
[16:54] <zyp> hold still, I can't write when it's moving up all the time
[16:54] <arko> it blew my mind
[16:54] <arko> haha
[16:55] <arko> i like how the UK govt is overly attached, if you leave to go to another country, you cant get rid of your citizenship
[16:55] <arko> once brit, always brit
[16:56] <eroomde> it's like the GPL
[16:56] <eroomde> but equally why would you want to become foreign?
[16:56] <nigelvh> Well the US will let you renounce if you REALLY REALLY REALLY want to, but after that it's screw you, not an american anymore, we don't need you.
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[16:57] <nigelvh> Or you can get dual citizenship if you want to pay taxes twice.
[16:57] <arko> eroomde: we made a whole country of people like that
[16:58] <eroomde> yeah ut they were all nuts
[16:58] <eroomde> but*
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[16:58] <eroomde> well, the ones that came from england
[16:58] <nigelvh> What me? Nuts? How dare you make such an implication sir!
[16:58] <eroomde> i can see how you might want to go from foreing to foreign
[16:59] <eroomde> but english to foreing makes no sense
[16:59] <eroomde> type error
[16:59] <nigelvh> Though my family came from the Netherlands, so I suppose I'm still good then.
[16:59] <eroomde> foreign -> foreign
[16:59] <eroomde> the type checker allows
[16:59] <arko> i dont understand why you wouldn't want to become an american
[16:59] <nigelvh> NSA
[17:00] <nigelvh> Congress
[17:00] <nigelvh> Stupid Laws
[17:00] <nigelvh> You know, those things.
[17:00] <arko> SHHHH
[17:00] <arko> you aren't suppose to tell them that
[17:01] <arko> don't listen to nigelvh, he's joking
[17:01] <arko> come, pay our taxes eat our food
[17:01] <nigelvh> HAHAHAHA Good one, me!
[17:02] <eroomde> i did like the food
[17:02] <eroomde> taxes were odd
[17:02] <eroomde> like, you always have to pay it
[17:02] <eroomde> but they never quoted it
[17:02] <eroomde> this bear is $6!!
[17:02] <eroomde> thank you that'll be $8 please
[17:02] <nigelvh> Nope
[17:02] <arko> thats pretty cheap for a bear
[17:02] <eroomde> beer*
[17:02] <arko> oh of course
[17:02] <arko> eroomde: 10% sales tax
[17:03] <eroomde> yes beer was generally a lot more expensive there than here
[17:03] <nigelvh> You're used to it being quoted, we aren't, so we just always add it in our heads.
[17:03] <arko> so more like $6.60
[17:03] <arko> oh yeah!
[17:03] <arko> beer
[17:03] <nigelvh> Because we're gooder at maths.
[17:03] <arko> there is an alcohol tax
[17:03] <arko> so thats more
[17:03] <WILLdude> nigelvh: And worser at English.
[17:03] <arko> wait didnt we leave the uk to get rid of stupid taxes?
[17:03] <arko> ah shi....
[17:03] <nigelvh> We speak UHMEHRIKAN!!!!
[17:04] <arko> nice job americans of 1776, sorry we screwed it up again
[17:04] <eroomde> i'm looking forward to the heavy payloads talk
[17:04] <nigelvh> Dunno wut u BRITS speek...
[17:04] <arko> OY!
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[17:04] <arko> thanks to jcoxon im talking about heavy HABs
[17:04] <nigelvh> Arko, remember it wasn't the taxes, those are important, it's the taxes without representation.
[17:04] <arko> totally need to change all my slides now
[17:04] <eroomde> why heavy habs?
[17:05] <arko> wait
[17:05] <arko> im confused, is there actually a heavy hab talk?
[17:06] <eroomde> dunno
[17:06] <arko> or are we just making fun of us ballooning?
[17:07] Action: arko is lost
[17:07] <arko> oh no, forgot to get coffee
[17:07] <arko> brb
[17:07] <eroomde> 1150 Ara Kourchians - Heavy Payloads aka Ballooning in the US
[17:08] <nigelvh> Haha
[17:08] <eroomde> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference2013
[17:08] <nigelvh> I'm not sure I've heard of anyone but KT5TK doing picos over here.
[17:08] <nigelvh> I know the flights I work with each spring are rather heavy.
[17:09] <Babs> right I'm back. Hixwork - I used a plastic bearing from SMB bearings. Plastic so it wouldn't freeze.
[17:09] <eroomde> my heaviest is about 30lbs
[17:09] <eroomde> in murican
[17:10] <eroomde> but that was an outlier...
[17:10] <Babs> I will bring along the cord from the below and above the parachute as an illustration of how it worked. Above the parachute, like an alive Chubby Checker. Below the parachute, like a dead Chubby Checker
[17:10] <nigelvh> We've never done one that heavy, We also fit ours within the limit for not needing permission which is 11 pounds.
[17:10] <eroomde> yes
[17:10] <nigelvh> s/also/always
[17:10] <eroomde> should have done that too
[17:11] <nigelvh> We just do two balloons each with about 9-10 pounds.
[17:15] <Ugi> What could you want to lift that weighs 30lb?
[17:15] <Babs> Ugi - Karen Carpenter
[17:15] <Babs> *bows*
[17:15] <Ugi> incidentally, the calculator reckons a 200g balloon could get a 70kg mand to 50,000 ft before bursting!
[17:15] <Ugi> man
[17:15] <eroomde> Ugi: my last payload
[17:16] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU6j49eCkF4
[17:16] <eroomde> on which note, time to go and watch a fillum
[17:16] <eroomde> bbl
[17:16] <Ugi> I'll have to save that for non-work time. No Youtube here.
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[17:16] <eroomde> shorter summary
[17:16] <eroomde> http://www.eng.cam.ac.uk/news/stories/2011/CU_Spaceflight/
[17:17] <eroomde> bbl
[17:18] <Ugi> OK, so that _is_ worth sending up.
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[17:32] <Ugi> Gotta run - TTFN all
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[17:40] <jcoxon> evening all
[17:40] <arko> yo
[17:41] <nigelvh> 'sup pimp dizzle
[17:41] <arko> hahaha
[17:41] <arko> eroomde: didnt see the wiki until now
[17:41] <arko> nice move Upu :P
[17:42] <Upu-> hmm ?
[17:42] <arko> 1150 Ara Kourchians - Heavy Payloads aka Ballooning in the US
[17:42] <arko> brilliant
[17:42] <Upu-> haha
[17:42] <Upu-> jesting ofc
[17:42] <Upu-> Thomas is across the US as well
[17:43] <nigelvh> Yeah he does a number of picos.
[17:43] <KT5TK_QRL> But also payloads where we don't talk about the weight....
[17:44] <fsphil> supersizehab
[17:44] <arko> :) this line up looks great
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[17:48] <arko> is anyone going to launch a hab at ukhas?
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[17:50] <fsphil> I'd like to
[17:51] <arko> me too!
[17:51] <arko> but i probably cant due to some crazy regulation i bet
[17:52] <daveake> Yeah, the UK NOTAM actually stands for NOT AMericans
[17:52] <nigelvh> HAHAHA
[17:52] <nigelvh> Need to show your British passport to get approval?
[17:52] <fsphil> yes, they've seen your picos
[17:52] <arko> hahaha
[17:52] <fsphil> permission from the Queen
[17:52] <arko> HERSELF
[17:53] <arko> err
[17:53] <arko> HER MAJESTY
[17:53] <fsphil> well corrected
[17:53] <fsphil> arise, Sir Balloon
[17:53] <nigelvh> Remember arko, unless you're canadian or british she's not our queen.
[17:54] <arko> damn right!
[17:54] <arko> "care for some tea?"
[17:54] <arko> "NMNOOOOOOO"
[17:54] <daveake> She does do the HAB approvals which is why it can be so slow
[17:54] <Upu-> fuck health care BANG ATTYBANG
[17:54] Nick change: Upu- -> Upu
[17:55] <fsphil> ok
[17:55] <arko> haha
[17:55] <nigelvh> Hahahaa
[17:55] <arko> love it
[17:55] <nigelvh> DAMN YOU OBAMA FOR MAKING US LIVE BETTER LIVES!!!
[17:55] <Upu> (nsfw due to swears)
[17:55] <fsphil> we need to make the opposite of this^^
[17:56] <fsphil> ok I was expecting a url there before my line
[17:56] <fsphil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-BPWQv-yRk
[17:56] <Upu> yet again the bot does not deliver
[17:57] <nigelvh> And sadness befell the land.
[17:59] <fsphil> good boy
[18:00] <arko> googling google gives maps?
[18:00] <nigelvh> Except it returns maps.google.com for a search for google
[18:00] <nigelvh> Which seems a bit odd.
[18:01] <fsphil> yes, it gives you a map. you have to find it for yourself
[18:01] <nigelvh> I suppose if google could find google that would be somewhat recursive...
[18:03] <daveake> google can't find their local tax office either
[18:04] <arko> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=google&l=1
[18:07] <fsphil> have some google with your google
[18:08] <lz1dev> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=http%3A%2F%2Flmgtfy.com%2F%3Fq%3Dgoogle%26l%3D1&l=1
[18:08] <lz1dev> am i doing it right?
[18:09] <arko> aww
[18:09] <arko> i think they coded to prevent that
[18:09] <arko> recursion yo
[18:09] <lz1dev> :[
[18:09] <lz1dev> well, look on thee bright side
[18:10] <lz1dev> at some point, it must've been working
[18:10] <arko> haha true
[18:11] <lz1dev> sometimes i sit back and think about all those people
[18:11] <lz1dev> that visited goatse
[18:12] <arko> poor souls
[18:13] <fsphil> some of them are dead now. and the rest, well it's only a matter of time
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[18:15] <fsphil> ooh, http://windytan.github.io/slowrx/
[18:15] <fsphil> linux has lacked a good sstv decoder
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[18:17] <ibanezmatt13> Good Evening :)
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[18:18] <fsphil> yo
[18:18] <ibanezmatt13> How's it going?
[18:18] <fsphil> not bad here, you?
[18:19] <ibanezmatt13> yeah not bad. Just returned from a piano lesson.
[18:19] <lz1dev> posh
[18:19] <ibanezmatt13> rather
[18:19] <ibanezmatt13> :p
[18:20] <ibanezmatt13> ping Brian_
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[18:21] <ibanezmatt13> 000023 130100 130141 130221 130302 130342 130423 130503 130544
[18:21] <ibanezmatt13> 114620 130102 130142 130223 130303 130344 130424 130505 130545
[18:21] <ibanezmatt13> 115122 130103 130144 130224 130305 130345 130426 130506 130547
[18:21] <ibanezmatt13> 115624 130105 130145 130226 130306 130347 130427 130508 130548
[18:21] <ibanezmatt13> 120126 130106 130147 130227 130308 130348 130429 130509 130550
[18:21] <ibanezmatt13> 120628 130108 130148 130229 130309 130350 130430 130511 130551
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 121130 130109 130150 130230 130311 130351 130432 130512 130553
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 121632 130111 130151 130232 130312 130353 130433 130514 130554
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 122134 130112 130153 130233 130314 130354 130435 130515 130556
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 122636 130114 130154 130235 130315 130356 130436 130517 a.out
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 123138 130115 130156 130236 130317 130357 130438 130518 crcmod-1.7
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 123640 130117 130157 130238 130318 130359 130439 130520 Desktop
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 124142 130118 130159 130239 130320 130400 130441 130521 fahrtocels.c
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 124644 130120 130200 130241 130321 130402 130442 130523 getchar.c
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 125146 130121 130202 130242 130323 130403 130444 130524 hello.c
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 125648 130123 130203 130244 130324 130405 130445 130526 kgstolbs.c
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 130040 130124 130205 130245 130326 130406 130447 130527 MATT-1.py
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 130042 130126 130206 130247 130327 130408 130448 130529 MATT-1.sh
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 130044 130127 130208 130248 130329 130409 130450 130530 ocr_pi.png
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 130048 130129 130209 130250 130330 130411 130451 130532 video.sh
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 130050 130130 130211 130251 130332 130412 130453 130533
[18:22] <bertrik> hello to you too ibanezmatt13
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 130051 130132 130212 130253 130333 130414 130454 130535
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 130053 130133 130214 130254 130335 130415 130456 130536
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 130054 130135 130215 130256 130336 130417 130457 130538
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 130056 130136 130217 130257 130338 130418 130459 130539
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 130057 130138 130218 130259 130339 130420 130500 130541
[18:22] <chrisstubbs> 130042 130126 130206 130247 130327 130408 130448 130529 pronz.jpg
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> 130059 130139 130220 130300 130341 130421 130502 130542
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> That's not right
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> The videos are supposed to be every 5 minutes, not 2 seconds
[18:22] <daveake> ctrl-c
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> Hello bertrik
[18:23] Action: ibanezmatt13 remains confused...
[18:23] <fsphil> wait, is this the matrix?
[18:23] <ibanezmatt13> it's my /home/pi :)
[18:23] <ibanezmatt13> not quite as expected
[18:24] <ibanezmatt13> I guess changing the bit rate caused that...
[18:24] <LeoBodnar> We want to see pronz.jpg
[18:25] <fsphil> use pastebin next time pls :)
[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> I'll return the bit rate back to default. Yeah, didn't know it was going to do it like a matrix :)
[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> Sorry about that
[18:27] <ibanezmatt13> Anybody know a command to remove all of those video files in the terminal?
[18:28] <fsphil> rm
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[18:28] <fsphil> just be careful not to delete your other files
[18:28] <ibanezmatt13> I mean a way to remove all video files in one go. Does something like that exist?
[18:29] <fsphil> rm :)
[18:29] <ibanezmatt13> just rm, won't that delete everything
[18:29] <fsphil> rm on its own won't do anything
[18:29] <fsphil> it deletes the files you tell it to
[18:29] <fsphil> but you can use a wildcard too
[18:30] <ibanezmatt13> a nice for loop
[18:30] <fsphil> to catch many files
[18:30] <ibanezmatt13> nah
[18:30] <ibanezmatt13> rm all files starting with 13
[18:30] <fsphil> that'd be good
[18:30] <fsphil> I'd suggest putting your video files in another directory
[18:31] <ibanezmatt13> but is there a way to do that without using a program? Or do I need to make a bash script. In fact, it'd be good practice to do it through making a bash script
[18:31] <ibanezmatt13> Could do that for some bash scripting experience?
[18:31] <fsphil> wildcard :)
[18:31] <LeoBodnar> rm 13*
[18:31] <SpeedEvil> rm 1[123]*[0-9] - remove anything beginning with 11, 12 or 13, and ending with 0-9
[18:32] <ibanezmatt13> not bad :) Thanks
[18:34] <ibanezmatt13> apart from the fact that I had to enter a 'y' for each one, that's exactly what I needed, thanks :)
[18:34] <ibanezmatt13> That's where a bash script may have been easier
[18:35] <fsphil> did you sudo that?
[18:35] <mikestir> rm -f to avoid that
[18:35] <ibanezmatt13> didn't sudo, and didn't know that
[18:35] <fsphil> hmm
[18:35] <fsphil> my laptop, the default is not to ask unless I delete files as root
[18:36] <ibanezmatt13> hmm
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[18:36] <ibanezmatt13> By the way, I'm moving nicely through that K&R book. It's really good :)
[18:39] <KT5TK_QRL> fsphil: were you able to compile slowrx?
[18:40] <fsphil> compile yes, but not run. it's segfaulting when I select an audio device
[18:40] <KT5TK_QRL> I don't have gtk3 on my Debian stable
[18:41] <KT5TK_QRL> There is also qsstv btw.
[18:42] <fsphil> I've never got qsstv to work
[18:43] <fsphil> just got as far as an ugly interface
[18:43] <KT5TK_QRL> Hmm, no problems with qsstv here
[18:43] <fsphil> not that I'm getting much further with this to be fair :)
[18:43] <fsphil> but at least the UI is a bit nicer
[18:44] <fsphil> ahh wait
[18:44] <fsphil> qsstv has been updated since I last saw it
[18:46] <KT5TK_QRL> You should try v7.1 http://users.telenet.be/on4qz/
[18:47] <fsphil> the one packaged in fedora is 7.1.7
[18:47] <fsphil> it's vastly better than the old one
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[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> hallo
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> *hello
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> sorry xD
[18:47] <fsphil> hallow works too
[18:47] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes qsstv 7.1.7 is the latest
[18:47] <fsphil> sweet
[18:47] <fsphil> I don't have to use wine/MMSSTV anymore
[18:48] <LeoBodnar> allo allo
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[19:03] <Upu> evening all
[19:09] <LeoBodnar> C<CBHB?!
[19:09] <LeoBodnar> evening that is
[19:10] <LeoBodnar> Thanks for quick shipping Upu
[19:10] <Upu> nps got it already ?
[19:10] <LeoBodnar> Yes, earlier today.
[19:10] <Upu> super
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[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> hello S_Mark
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[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, where are you from?
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[19:24] <LeoBodnar> Russia/UK
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[19:27] <LeoBodnar> Has anybody flown non-RTTY modes yet you know of? I have DominoEX 16 planned for the next mission. Not sure if I will have any trackers with this :)
[19:28] <bertrik> if it's supported by dl-fldigi, I suppose people will try to decode and report strings
[19:30] <LeoBodnar> OK, Habitat seems to have configuration for this mode.
[19:31] <LeoBodnar> Seem to be a bit of a challange.
[19:31] <LeoBodnar> challenge
[19:36] <Upu> you can use it
[19:36] <Upu> would love to try decode it
[19:39] <LeoBodnar> We will see probably in two week after F1 stampede ends.
[19:40] <Upu> is it transmitting now ?
[19:41] <LeoBodnar> I am testing Si4460 with another PIC and it is just transmitting a test string. Full PCBs for the tracker should arrive tomorrow. I hope to squeeze the whole payload into 15g.
[19:42] <Upu> should be interesting, you will be able to get it to that with ease I suspect
[19:42] <LeoBodnar> Well, the battery is 7.5g :)
[19:42] <Upu> AAA ?
[19:43] <LeoBodnar> Yeas
[19:43] <LeoBodnar> Yeah/yes
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[19:43] <Upu> meh 12g then :)
[19:43] <Upu> brb need to reboot my serial ports seem to have self destructed
[19:43] <LeoBodnar> What the whole thing?
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[19:44] <Upu> well with an AAA + antenna I'm about 12g
[19:44] <Upu> though tend not to fly with AAA's
[19:44] <LeoBodnar> With enclosure?
[19:44] <Upu> well bubble wrap :)
[19:44] <Upu> Lightest with decent insulation and AA https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PAVA/IMG_1260.JPG
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[19:45] <Upu> made myself a pogo pin programming cable so saved 0.7g straight away :)
[19:45] <Upu> brb
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[19:45] <LeoBodnar> OK, my notes say that payload sans enclosure is expected at 11.2g
[19:46] <LeoBodnar> Nice battery holder clips are 1.3g - I can ditch them too.
[19:46] <LeoBodnar> A strip of Kapton will do.
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[19:47] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar, you can solder straight to the battery and tape
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[19:48] <LeoBodnar> You bet I will but I have a place for nice AAA clips anyway.
[19:49] <Upu> back
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[19:49] <LeoBodnar> Upu, do you have your PCB pictures?
[19:50] <Upu> yeah 1 sec
[19:50] <Upu> its not as tightly packed as yours
[19:50] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/pAVA/IMG_1038.JPG
[19:50] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/pAVA/IMG_1039.JPG
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[19:52] <LeoBodnar> YOu haven't seen my yet! :)
[19:53] <Upu> saw the other one :)
[19:53] <bertrik> hm, is that a switching power supply on there?
[19:53] <Upu> step up yes
[19:53] <bertrik> nice
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[19:58] <LeoBodnar> Nice ones! I have a new one coming tomorrow.
[19:58] <Upu> get them made up locally ?
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, cool!
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[19:59] <KT5TK_QRL> https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/101257939408512121331/albums/5883534171455434113/5883534173914988098?pid=5883534173914988098&oid=101257939408512121331
[20:00] <Upu> yeah yeah :)
[20:00] <Upu> ping mattbrejza :)
[20:00] <KT5TK_QRL> :)
[20:00] <LeoBodnar> What's the smallest? :)
[20:00] <Upu> mattbrejza's by a mile
[20:01] <Upu> its 2g tops or something
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[20:01] <LeoBodnar> brb
[20:01] <Upu> http://imgur.com/a/SWyR6
[20:02] <Upu> thats very light considering what you have on it KT5TK
[20:02] <KT5TK_QRL> It's a very thin PCB
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> OK I think the time has come now
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> I would like to present to you something that has been the result of many developments
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> Stormdrifter II: http://s.gullipics.com/image/1/t/p/5yvgb5-kr6zia-sgrj/IMG0282.jpeg
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[20:03] <Upu> wow
[20:03] <Upu> 2 GPS modules ?
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> yes :)
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[20:04] <Upu> interesting
[20:04] <Upu> we need to teach you PCB design :)
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> for Stormdrifter III :)
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/s/n/v/5yvgb5-kr6zq1-yyaj/IMG0289.jpeg
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[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> I know, it looks ...
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah unservicable
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, how are you?
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[20:26] <chrisstubbs> S_Mark dosent hang around
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> he missed the premiere of Stormdrifter II
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:27] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Baker "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference 7th September 2013"
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[20:27] <griffonbot> Received email: Graham Shirville "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference 7th September 2013"
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[20:33] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference 7th September 2013"
[20:34] <fsphil> ah sweet
[20:40] <Upu> we should give people the option to do the Foundation Exam at the end of the conference :)
[20:42] <fsphil> oooh
[20:42] <fsphil> not a bad idea
[20:42] <fsphil> is there a local club?
[20:43] <Upu> not sure
[20:43] <Upu> ping Phil_M0DNY
[20:43] <Upu> are you an authorised RSGB invigilator ?
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[20:58] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference 7th September 2013"
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[21:03] <chrisstubbs> Has anyone got a 1.8v to 3.3v step up regulator board they can reccomend just to experiment with, dont really want to mess about getting a load of new boards ordered with regulators on them.
[21:04] <LeoBodnar_> most DC-DC chips have evaluation boards with them on. Try Farnell
[21:06] <chrisstubbs> evaluation boards seem to be horrendously expensive, but I will have a look
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[21:09] <LeoBodnar> chrisstubbs: http://uk.farnell.com/microchip/mcp1640ev-sbc/mcp1640-sync-boost-conv-eval-board/dp/1798098
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[21:10] <LeoBodnar> chrisstubbs: you get two converters on one PCB for £15
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[21:12] <chrisstubbs> Not too bad then, cheers for that
[21:13] <LeoBodnar> pleasure
[21:13] <chrisstubbs> http://bit.ly/12eiSZr would be perfect, small and cheap but its 5v :(
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> you can replace one of the voltage setting resistors on this PCB
[21:17] <Upu> Sparkfun do one
[21:17] <chrisstubbs> sounds like a plan!
[21:17] <Upu> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10255
[21:17] <Upu> thats the same one I use on my boards
[21:18] <chrisstubbs> I found https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10967
[21:18] <Upu> I had issues with those not starting up on a single cell
[21:18] <Upu> though it may have been a poor choice of inductor
[21:18] <Upu> on my part
[21:18] <chrisstubbs> looks much simpler, And theres the the reason why you dont use them :P
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[21:19] <LeoBodnar> It looks like they are using 47k / 15k voltage divider to get 1.2V reference http://www.marcmart.com/ebay/o/OT076/OT076-5m.jpg
[21:20] <chrisstubbs> I like the idea of hacking up one of those ebay ones
[21:20] <LeoBodnar> You need to replace 47k with 27k and you are done
[21:21] <chrisstubbs> Nice and simple! will get a pair of those to have a play with. thanks :)
[21:22] <LeoBodnar> Or solder 62K on top of 47 instead :)
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah S_Mark is back
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[21:23] <LeoBodnar> 47uH ? Wow, moassive
[21:25] <LeoBodnar> And only 200mA? something isn't right. You usually need 2.2-4.7uH in such design.
[21:26] <chrisstubbs> Its rated to 1.5A
[21:26] <chrisstubbs> Possibly if its LN2 cooled
[21:28] <LeoBodnar> Datasheet does not specify operating frequency. Fishy.
[21:28] <LeoBodnar> Looks like 150kHz, no wonder it needs massive inductor.
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[21:39] <chrisstubbs> http://sci-ence.org/helium/ hah
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[21:55] <cuddykid> damn, bbd have changed their mind again
[21:55] <cuddykid> now rain/showers forecast
[21:56] <fsphil> :(
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[21:56] <chrisstubbs> With any luck the showers will be short and you can fit in
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[21:59] <fsphil> what time are you hoping to launch?
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[22:14] <arko> YEEEHA!!!!
[22:14] <arko> we're getting a 3d printer
[22:14] <arko> nice one too
[22:14] <arko> http://www.zcorp.com/en/Products/3D-Printers/ZPrinter-310-Plus/spage.aspx
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[22:16] <fsphil> that will be super useful. what'cha thinking of making on it?
[22:17] <arko> EVERYTHING
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[22:17] <fsphil> where you gonna put it all?
[22:18] S_Mark (~S_Mark@212-139-244-206.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:18] <fsphil> I love the idea of making specific parts for things
[22:18] <arko> our hackerspace
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[22:18] <fsphil> no bodges, just an exact shape
[22:19] <fsphil> ooh, skeleton for a humanoid robot
[22:19] <fsphil> do that
[22:19] <arko> :D
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[22:26] <anerDev> hi guys
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[22:28] <anerDev> Upu i watched your video about radiometrix lp2
[22:28] <anerDev> lmt2
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[22:43] <arko> http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-06/bacteria-33000-feet
[22:43] <arko> whos taking air samples!
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[00:00] --- Fri Jun 21 2013