highaltitude.log.20130618

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[02:18] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[02:37] <heathkid> copper pipe is pretty heavy to launch via balloon... 300 ohm twinlead works just fine.
[02:38] <heathkid> though I've never launched one yet... but that's what I use for my 2m antenna at home
[02:39] <heathkid> though does need a bit of a balun for impedence matching...
[02:39] <heathkid> here at home I just coil up some coax at the base of the antenna as a balun
[02:39] <heathkid> easy, cheap, and an awesome antenna!
[02:40] <heathkid> but that wouldn't work on a HAB
[02:41] <heathkid> so going for the 1/4 wave out of coax with the braided shield made into radials for a ground plane
[02:41] <heathkid> can't go wrong
[02:41] <heathkid> right?
[02:42] <heathkid> :) I know... *everything* can go wrong...
[02:42] <heathkid> planning for that...
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[02:48] <nigelvh> This year I just got a bit of thin dowel and some small wire and made a dipole. Worked great.
[02:49] <heathkid> 2m?
[02:50] <nigelvh> Yep
[02:50] <heathkid> I'd be interested in your design
[02:50] <heathkid> I prefer a dipole to a 1/4 wave anytime
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[02:50] <heathkid> I'm still preparing for my *first* launch
[02:51] <heathkid> I know I have been for quite a while...
[02:51] <heathkid> but I wan it to be *perfect8
[02:51] <heathkid> *perfect*
[02:51] <heathkid> text book example with TONS of data transmitted and logged...
[02:52] <heathkid> fast ascent to >100k ft. burst
[02:52] <heathkid> recover payload within a couple hundred miles of launch
[02:53] <heathkid> is that too much to ask for?
[02:53] <heathkid> for a first launch?
[02:53] <heathkid> :)
[02:53] <nigelvh> You can ask. The question is will you recieve.
[02:53] <heathkid> so I keep planning and reading and designing....
[02:53] <nigelvh> Here. http://ess205flight.tumblr.com/image/52183882505
[02:53] <nigelvh> I'm all the way at the left, you can see the payload in my right hand.
[02:53] <nigelvh> It's literally a stick with some wire taped to it to make a dipole.
[02:54] <heathkid> so you used the pink board?
[02:54] <nigelvh> Yeah
[02:54] <heathkid> I was wondering about that
[02:54] <nigelvh> Here's the same thing in video form. Get to see me run a bit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYpZNT62eyc&hd=1
[02:55] <heathkid> got a lead on some vacuum insulated panels (VIP) that it would take 85mm of the pink/blue stuff to replace but has to be custom made and $$$$
[02:55] <heathkid> did the pink board work?
[02:55] <nigelvh> Yes, and pink foam is cheap and easy. Just use it.
[02:55] <heathkid> easy to cut?
[02:55] <nigelvh> We use pink board every year. It works fine.
[02:55] <heathkid> :)
[02:56] <heathkid> I'll get some next time I'm at home depot
[02:56] <heathkid> problem is the He
[02:56] <heathkid> $$$
[02:56] <heathkid> even for a 600g balloon launch
[02:56] <heathkid> dang
[02:57] <nigelvh> My transmitter has an on board temp sensor near the PA, doing APRS at 250mW every 90 seconds and the coldest that reported was 8 degrees Fahrenheit.
[02:57] <heathkid> try explaining to wife why you need to spend $200 on a tank of He to send up a $60 balloon with >$300 worth of electronics to near space...
[02:57] <nigelvh> Oop, forgive me, 5.
[02:57] <heathkid> 5F?
[02:57] <heathkid> have your sensor on your HX-1?
[02:57] <nigelvh> Though, we've had much colder. This year's payload package was pretty well sealed.
[02:58] <nigelvh> I don't use a HX-1
[02:58] <heathkid> ?
[02:58] <nigelvh> I custom made my transmitter.
[02:58] <heathkid> what do you use?
[02:58] <heathkid> ah
[02:58] <heathkid> we're using the HX-1
[02:58] <nigelvh> VCXO->PLL->Filter->PA->Filter->Antenna.
[02:58] <heathkid> sounds like fun
[02:58] <heathkid> and too much work
[02:58] <heathkid> :P
[02:59] <heathkid> been there with QRPp rigs...
[02:59] <nigelvh> It's worthwhile for the learning experience, as well as the cost savings vs buying the HX-1.
[02:59] <heathkid> I can't pay for learning experience anymore. :)
[02:59] <nigelvh> Plus it's frequency agile, so I can tx on APRS then switch to a different frequency that's just us for direction finding.
[03:00] <heathkid> nice!
[03:00] <nigelvh> There are advantages to custom stuff.
[03:00] <heathkid> ours is custom
[03:00] <heathkid> entire tracker is about 12g
[03:00] <nigelvh> Except the HX1
[03:00] <heathkid> runs off 2AA Lithiums
[03:01] <heathkid> unless I add a LOT more sensors, cameras, ect. I'm going to have to add ballast
[03:02] <nigelvh> Adding ballast is ridiculous. Use a smaller balloon or underfill.
[03:02] Nick change: jiffe1 -> fxmulder
[03:02] <heathkid> I've already changed from a 1200g to a 600g
[03:02] <nigelvh> And?
[03:03] <heathkid> and still the predictions tell me a 300g payload is 102 minutes to burst at over 100k ft.
[03:03] <heathkid> I'm nowhere near 300g's
[03:03] <heathkid> and I don't want a floater for a first launch
[03:03] <nigelvh> You haven't made the package yet.
[03:04] <nigelvh> Antenna, package, cord will all add weight.
[03:04] <heathkid> okay... I might get to 200g
[03:04] <nigelvh> Perhaps build it and see what you get.
[03:05] <heathkid> in the process
[03:05] <heathkid> just got my 18 and 24" spherachutes
[03:05] <heathkid> the 36" was WAY too big
[03:05] <heathkid> have both a 600g and a 1200g balloon
[03:06] <heathkid> doing the 600g first...
[03:06] <heathkid> simple, easy... right?
[03:06] <nigelvh> Really, recovering is good, but what's the harm if you get a floater?
[03:06] <heathkid> 102 minutes to burst >100k ft.
[03:06] <heathkid> not for a first attempt
[03:06] <heathkid> I'll do the first full HAB orbit
[03:06] <heathkid> :)
[03:07] <heathkid> think big
[03:07] <nigelvh> Why not for the first attempt. What is the harm?
[03:07] <heathkid> Atlantic Ocean
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[03:07] <heathkid> I'm not launching an autonomous HAB/SUB *just yet*
[03:07] <nigelvh> Just put a two hour cutdown on. That will cover you.
[03:08] <heathkid> heh
[03:08] <heathkid> if it's going up it's going UP
[03:08] <heathkid> *first* launch will be >100k ft.
[03:09] <heathkid> or I won't launch
[03:09] <heathkid> and will have images, video, telemetry, etc. the entire time
[03:09] <nigelvh> Dude, you're using waaaay too many definitives. HABbing has zero of those.
[03:09] <heathkid> even if it takes me another year
[03:10] <heathkid> really?
[03:10] <nigelvh> Your goal should be a flight, whatever the outcome you'll learn and have fun doing it.
[03:10] <heathkid> I thought a first launch of >100k ft. was a decent *first goal*
[03:11] <heathkid> full orbit by 2015
[03:11] <nigelvh> This year (granted ours have large payload strings) but we got to about 105,000
[03:11] <heathkid> nice!
[03:11] <heathkid> that's what I want in a first launch
[03:12] <heathkid> and won't launch until I'm certain I can achieve that
[03:12] <nigelvh> You'll never launch then.
[03:12] <heathkid> I still have so much to learn
[03:12] <nigelvh> You will NEVER be certain.
[03:12] <heathkid> why's that?
[03:12] <heathkid> never be certain?
[03:12] <nigelvh> I never know if our balloons will reach 100,000.
[03:12] <heathkid> are the predictors that bad?
[03:13] <nigelvh> Weather, and materials, and systems, and everything else are entirely unpredictable.
[03:13] <heathkid> if all those variables are unpredictable... then you can predict for that
[03:14] <nigelvh> Just make your goal be a launch, and enjoy the process.
[03:14] <heathkid> :)
[03:14] <heathkid> okay
[03:14] <heathkid> but I must recover first payload
[03:14] <heathkid> too much to ask for?
[03:14] <heathkid> I know.... 50/50
[03:14] <nigelvh> Honestly we've had balloons go to 60,000, and balloons to 130,000
[03:14] <heathkid> but I want 100%
[03:14] <heathkid> 130k?
[03:14] <heathkid> dang!!!
[03:15] <nigelvh> And this year we got 2/3 and four systems with independent gps.
[03:15] <heathkid> using a uBlox?
[03:15] <nigelvh> four systems per balloon I should say
[03:16] <heathkid> and honestly... I didn't know a HAB could reach 130k ft.
[03:16] <nigelvh> As for GPSs, This year we used two uBlox's, a Garmin, and a Trimble Copernicus on each of three balloons.
[03:16] <heathkid> multiple per payload?
[03:16] <heathkid> we've currently got the uBlox-6 on ours
[03:16] <nigelvh> You saw the video, there are a number of payloads per balloon.
[03:17] <heathkid> how many cutdowns do you have?
[03:17] <nigelvh> None
[03:17] <heathkid> I didn't see the video
[03:17] <nigelvh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYpZNT62eyc&hd=1
[03:17] <heathkid> watching now... brb
[03:17] <nigelvh> I'm the one running.
[03:19] <heathkid> I know I have to use 50 lb. test line or less...
[03:20] <heathkid> what are you using?
[03:20] <heathkid> looks like string of some sort
[03:20] <heathkid> rope?
[03:20] <nigelvh> Some twisted nylon cord.
[03:21] <heathkid> 8 payloads?
[03:21] <heathkid> hard to count as you were running
[03:21] <nigelvh> Depended on the balloon.
[03:21] <heathkid> ah
[03:21] <heathkid> see... I have no clue how to actually build the payload
[03:21] <heathkid> or attach everything between it and the parachute
[03:22] <nigelvh> One of the three only had two, a main and a backup tracker. The other two had four-five student payloads, and four telemetry systems of various function.
[03:22] <heathkid> no one seems to want to give up that info
[03:22] <nigelvh> You hollow out some of the pink foam and stick your electronics in there.
[03:22] <nigelvh> Tie some string around it and duct tape it shut.
[03:22] <nigelvh> Done.
[03:22] <heathkid> not just build a box?
[03:22] <nigelvh> Sure.
[03:22] <heathkid> it's only 25mm thick
[03:23] <nigelvh> In summary, encase your electronics with the foam in one manner or another.
[03:23] <heathkid> does the pink foam expand?
[03:23] <nigelvh> No.
[03:23] <heathkid> good
[03:23] <heathkid> and you use the 25mm stuff okay?
[03:24] <heathkid> I can test up to 100k ft. and down to <55C in our lab
[03:24] <heathkid> but would rather just do a launch! :)
[03:24] <nigelvh> Whatever size you have works.
[03:24] <heathkid> I just need some He....
[03:24] <heathkid> I want to do a launch so badly
[03:29] <heathkid> nigelvh: you're telling me a HAB launch is pretty much completely random as far as altitude goes?
[03:32] <nigelvh> Yep
[03:33] <nigelvh> Within reason. If you don't have a total dud of a balloon you could get +/- 10-20k feet
[03:33] <nigelvh> The predictor does a good job of a broad estimate, but it's only that.
[03:34] <heathkid> ...yet I *still* have no clue how much He to fill my balloons with...
[03:34] <nigelvh> Some.
[03:34] <nigelvh> You fill till you get the free lift you want.
[03:34] <heathkid> somewhere between the calculators and magic is the correct amount...
[03:35] <heathkid> and how many balloons does it take to figure out the right amount?
[03:36] <nigelvh> You fill till you get the free lift you want.
[03:36] <heathkid> oh, that changes *every time* you launch... .based on temp, weather, etc...
[03:36] <nigelvh> Yep
[03:36] <heathkid> sucks
[03:36] <nigelvh> The weather changes, that's what it's going to be.
[03:37] <heathkid> why can't it be not easy... but at least predictable?
[03:38] <nigelvh> Because physics.
[03:38] <heathkid> which physics?
[03:38] <nigelvh> Some of them.
[03:39] <heathkid> and to think some people thing a HAB launch is *easy*
[03:39] <heathkid> HAH
[03:39] <heathkid> no, I haven't done 100 or 400+ launches like some on here...
[03:39] <heathkid> haven't done a single one yet
[03:39] Action: heathkid is learning from everyone elses mistakes
[03:39] <heathkid> :)
[03:40] <nigelvh> You'll make your own.
[03:40] <heathkid> I plan to
[03:40] <heathkid> and I'll share them with you all
[03:40] <heathkid> so you don't make the same
[03:40] <heathkid> but you will
[03:40] <heathkid> as will I
[03:41] <heathkid> so now that I now my tracker actually works... should I just do a 600g launch and see what happens?
[03:42] <heathkid> do I even need a radar reflector in the YS with such a small/light weight launch (I don't think so from what I've read)
[03:42] <nigelvh> Nope
[03:42] <heathkid> US
[03:43] <heathkid> so just launch
[03:43] <heathkid> need a tank of He
[03:43] <heathkid> I really don't want to do H
[03:43] <nigelvh> Generally we try to let the local tower know, but otherwise go for it.
[03:43] <heathkid> do but don't
[03:43] <heathkid> yep.. I'm about 5 miles from our local airport... I'll let them know out of courtesy
[03:44] <heathkid> last time I launched a "weather balloon" we ended up shutting down O'Hare International.... (I was 12 years old)...
[03:44] <heathkid> ooops...
[03:45] <heathkid> a LONG time ago
[03:46] <heathkid> and I did sort of get into a bit of trouble
[03:46] <heathkid> :)
[03:46] <heathkid> who knew
[03:46] <heathkid> it was just a balloon with a note tied to it...
[03:47] <heathkid> unfortunately lanuched from an airport and it floated into Chicago air space...
[03:47] <heathkid> again... oooops....
[03:54] <x-f> did they get your note? :)
[04:20] <Darkside> always leave a note
[04:22] <arko> YOU ALWAYS...LEAVE.A NOTE.
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[05:43] <Upu> 130k heathkid ? :)
[05:44] <Upu> and then some
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[08:09] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning :)
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[08:10] <ibanezmatt13> I've got my Python executable running well in the rc.local folder on my Pi so that it runs from startup. However, I was wondering how, after the Pi has booted, I can stop that program running.
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[08:15] <ibanezmatt13> Why is it better to execute programs from my own bash script as opposed to the startup bash script already on the Pi?
[08:15] <fsphil> the startup scripts are expected to finish
[08:16] <fsphil> and you might want a bash script that runs your program in a loop forever, incase it crashes
[08:18] <ibanezmatt13> I see, I'm just looking at writing bash scripts
[08:18] <ibanezmatt13> Is there a way to stop my program running once I've booted too?
[08:18] <ibanezmatt13> Something to do with killing a PID or something
[08:19] <daveake> kill
[08:20] <ibanezmatt13> My program is an executable. Do I do "kill /home/pi/MATT-1.py" ?
[08:20] <fsphil> calm down daveake
[08:20] <Brace> ibanezmatt13: man kill
[08:20] <fsphil> oh you too Brace
[08:20] <daveake> killall
[08:20] <Brace> \o/
[08:20] <fsphil> violence is not the answer :)
[08:20] <Brace> ibanezmatt13: man pgrep
[08:21] <Brace> ibanezmatt13: when the program is running it gets a Process ID (PID) and you issue something like
[08:21] <Brace> kill 1234
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13> will man pgrep return all the processes and their PIDs?
[08:21] <Brace> if you started the program, you can stop it, otherwise you'll need to be root
[08:21] <fsphil> man man
[08:22] <fsphil> (man is short for manual)
[08:22] <x-f> "man" is short for manual
[08:22] <Brace> either via sudo
[08:22] <x-f> heh
[08:22] <fsphil> get outta my head
[08:22] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'll try it
[08:22] <Brace> pgrep is a program you can use to get the PID
[08:22] <Brace> http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/using-man-to-get-help-in-linux-and-unix/
[08:23] <Brace> read that and if you still have questions about man, then ask them here
[08:23] <fsphil> $ man love
[08:23] <ibanezmatt13> I see, didn't realise it meant manual :)
[08:23] <fsphil> No manual entry for love
[08:24] <Brace> ibanezmatt13: I don't always agree with him but this is a good read - http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
[08:24] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[08:24] <daveake> find cat
[08:25] <Brace> and here's how to kill programs in linux - http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/kill-process-in-linux-or-terminate-a-process-in-unix-or-linux-systems/
[08:25] <Brace> infact, the whole cyberciti.biz website is excellent
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13> I've been looking at the site before
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13> good site
[08:27] <Brace> and if you're doing bash development I'll direct you here as well - http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide - Greg's wiki!
[08:28] <ibanezmatt13> kill [signal] PID what's the signal part for?
[08:29] <ibanezmatt13> nevermind, I did it
[08:29] <ibanezmatt13> just needed sudo
[08:30] <daveake> $ open the pod doors, Hal
[08:31] <daveake> I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that
[08:31] <daveake> $ sudo open the pod doors, Hal
[08:31] <daveake> OK
[08:31] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, Just out of curiosity, what would be needed in a bash script to loop forever and keep restarting the program if it stops running? Or do I really need to do that?
[08:32] <ibanezmatt13> Basically how would it know if it had stopped running?
[08:32] <ibanezmatt13> Perhaps it could check for a particular PID and if that PID didn't exist no more it could re start the program?
[08:33] <x-f> while true; do ./your/script.py; sleep 5; done
[08:33] <ibanezmatt13> won't that keep executng the program even if it's running?
[08:34] <x-f> no
[08:34] <x-f> ; means do next command when previous has finished
[08:35] <fsphil> you don't have to have them on the same line
[08:35] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, that's handy. Could I do this for two python programs?
[08:35] <daveake> from 2 bash scripts
[08:36] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, I'll do that. For bash, can I just import time as in python to use sleep or is it different?
[08:39] <x-f> sleep is a common shell command, you don't need to import anything
[08:39] <x-f> there is no way or need to import anything anyway
[08:39] <Brace> ibanezmatt13: no importing in bash
[08:39] <Brace> it's basically just a list of commands to run
[08:39] <Brace> sleep is just a command
[08:40] <Brace> read that bash link that I sent you
[08:40] <Brace> and if you still dont' get it, then ask questions
[08:40] <Brace> cause I guarantee that page will have all the answers you need
[08:40] <ibanezmatt13> excellent I'll be sure to read it. So #!/bin/bash at the start while [ 1 ]; do nohup /home/pi/MATT-1.py & sleep(5)
[08:41] <daveake> ibanezmatt13, see http://thumbsnap.com/f/uKQAJiyx top-left :)
[08:41] <ibanezmatt13> haha, that's good
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[08:42] <ibanezmatt13> I like the Unix one
[08:42] <fsphil> flower pot
[08:43] <ibanezmatt13> would I run this bash script from the rc.local instead of executing the program in rc.local?
[08:43] <Brace> ibanezmatt13: why don't you just run the script in cron?
[08:43] <Brace> if you just want to run it every x minutes or similar?
[08:44] <Brace> is this the tracker code?
[08:44] <ibanezmatt13> Well, I'm not quite sure what I want to do. Yes this is tracker code
[08:44] <Brace> so the program will just keep on running won't it?
[08:44] <Brace> and you want it to run the whole time the tracker is on right?
[08:45] <ibanezmatt13> Theoretically, but I was making sure that if it did fail it would start agai
[08:45] <ibanezmatt13> again*
[08:45] <Brace> yeah
[08:45] <Brace> well you could put a cron job in to start it when the rpi boots
[08:45] <Brace> and then a script to monitor it and restart it if it fails
[08:46] <Brace> and run the monitor script out of cron
[08:46] <fsphil> cron would be annoying. you'd have to check if it's running
[08:46] <ibanezmatt13> I've never used a cron job, or a bash script. :\ Would be good to learn it though
[08:47] <Brace> fsphil: yes, but that's how you do it, especially when dealing with bash/perl/python scripts
[08:47] <Brace> or at least it's a good way of doing it
[08:47] <fsphil> would also mean you might get up to a minute of the program not running
[08:48] <Brace> is that a massive problem?
[08:48] <fsphil> if it's the last minute of the descent, maybe :)
[08:49] <Brace> yeah, true, but I'd want to make sure that the code is robust enough not to bomb out
[08:49] <Brace> with the restart / monitor job as a emergency catch all
[08:49] <mfa298> the trick is to write good code so that it doesn't crash!
[08:50] <Brace> mfa298: hear hear! :)
[08:50] <ibanezmatt13> apart from one line in the code, I think that's where we're at. The gps.readline() Very rarely ,but it does happen...
[08:51] <mfa298> but for what ibanezmatt13 is doing a controlling bash script with a while true loop to keep the script running if it does bomb out is probably good enough and is the easiest option.
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> Easiest is always good when learning...
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> I think
[08:52] <mfa298> trying to write a good script to check your other script is working can become a challenge in itself.
[08:53] <ibanezmatt13> It was mentioned earlier that I needed to do while true; do ./your/script.py; sleep 5; done
[08:53] <ibanezmatt13> I've started to write it
[08:54] <mfa298> sounds about right. You can put it over several lines to make it more readable
[08:54] <ibanezmatt13> Don't I need "nohup /home/pi/MATT-1.py &;"
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[08:55] <fsphil> you'd call your bash script that way
[08:55] <mfa298> think about what & does and what the effect would be
[08:55] <fsphil> instead
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> the & runs un the background?
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> in*
[08:56] <mfa298> yes,
[08:56] <ibanezmatt13> so I wouldn't want to do that because the bash script won't know what it's doing
[08:56] <mfa298> so what would happen if you ran your script in the background in a while loop
[08:56] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'll remove that
[08:57] <mfa298> that's part of it. as the contol goes straight back to the bash script it will then sleep 5 seconds and start a new version of your script. (So you'll end up with lots of copies of your script running
[08:58] <ibanezmatt13> I still don't understand why that doesn't keep re executing the program anyway...
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> ; means 'do the next command when the previous command has finished.' Is that the reason why?
[08:59] <mfa298> the ; is similar to hitting enter.
[08:59] <fsphil> ; is just a bash way of putting more than one command on the same line
[09:00] <ibanezmatt13> right, so why doesn't that keep re-executing the program? It just looks like that's what it should do
[09:00] <fsphil> it would
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[09:00] <ibanezmatt13> ah
[09:01] <fsphil> hopefully it'll never need to loop
[09:01] <fsphil> your python program should never return
[09:01] <ibanezmatt13> what would it return if it did
[09:01] <ibanezmatt13> An error?
[09:01] <mfa298> think about what happens on the shell when you just run ./MATT-1.py
[09:02] <mfa298> the bash script is just a set of commands to run on a shell.
[09:02] <ibanezmatt13> at the moment it returns all the datastrings and print statements when I run the program
[09:03] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, Wouldn't it loop every 5 seconds anyway?
[09:03] <mfa298> when you run it like that when do you see the shell prompt again ?
[09:03] <ibanezmatt13> ah, when it ends
[09:03] <ibanezmatt13> So it will only try to execute the command when it gets to a prompt
[09:03] <ibanezmatt13> i.e. the end of program
[09:03] <mfa298> yes
[09:04] <ibanezmatt13> I see, that makes sense
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[09:05] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5803776
[09:05] <mfa298> have you tried running it yet ?
[09:05] <ibanezmatt13> no
[09:05] <ibanezmatt13> how do I run a bash script?
[09:05] <mfa298> that's the best way of testing it.
[09:06] <mfa298> make it executeable
[09:06] <mfa298> and in the same way as your python
[09:06] <ibanezmatt13> I'll do that
[09:06] <ibanezmatt13> ./MATT-1.sh
[09:07] <ibanezmatt13> ./MATT-1.sh: line 6: syntax error near unexpected token `5'
[09:07] <ibanezmatt13> ./MATT-1.sh: line 6: `sleep(5)'
[09:07] <mfa298> all scripts like that work in the same way, executable flag means the OS will treat it like a program. The first line #!/bin/bash tells the OS what interpertor to use.
[09:07] <mfa298> man sleep
[09:09] <ibanezmatt13> ah SLEEP(5_
[09:09] <mfa298> you also don't need the nohup in the script
[09:10] <ibanezmatt13> nohup is where breaking from the interpreter stops the program isn't it?
[09:10] <ibanezmatt13> In which case, I don't need it
[09:10] <mfa298> nohup is for when the controlling terminal/program will disappear - but your bash script should be there all the time your python is running
[09:11] <ibanezmatt13> I see, that makes sense
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[09:11] <mfa298> you will want the nohup and & when you call the bash script from rc.local
[09:11] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[09:12] <mfa298> when it's running you might find it useful to run "ps auxwf" in another shell. That command will give you a list of all process running in a tree form of what's been started from something else.
[09:12] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, I've used that before
[09:13] <ibanezmatt13> ok the bash script is working but it's running a bit slower than it did before, that's normal I guess?
[09:13] <ibanezmatt13> well, the difference is negligable to be honest, nevermind
[09:13] <mfa298> you python shouldn't be aly slower
[09:13] <ibanezmatt13> I think it's just me :)
[09:14] <mfa298> it will take slightly longer to start up as you're now running two commands
[09:14] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'm gonna modify rc.local then it should be ready to go
[09:15] <ibanezmatt13> yes it works :)
[09:15] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[09:16] <ibanezmatt13> I guess if I want another bash script for another python program (e.g to run the Pi Cam) I could do that in the same way
[09:17] <mfa298> if you want to kill it totally you should just be able to kill the bash script (if you had nohup on the python script you'de need to kill both)
[09:17] <mfa298> yes
[09:17] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks for that
[09:19] <mfa298> although if you're just writing something like https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5318252 there's no need for python at all now.
[09:19] <ibanezmatt13> I was just about to ask that :) Thanks
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[09:24] <cuddykid> hey UpuWork - have you gone to the PO yet? Could I get an order in now
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[09:35] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, you said about me killing the bash script. When I run top, the bash script isn't there, only the MATT-1.py
[09:38] <ibanezmatt13> As expected, killing the .py script makes no difference because of the bash script doing the re-loop. I need to find the bash script to kill it. How can I find the PID of the bash script
[09:38] <mfa298> try the "ps auxwf" command
[09:39] <mfa298> top only shows the top processes so your .sh script is probably off the bottom somewhere
[09:39] <mfa298> you can also use "ps -ef | grep MATT" to see the ones that match
[09:40] <ibanezmatt13> oh yes that worked, thank you
[09:40] <mfa298> normally I use the ps -ef method but I think you'll find the ps auxwf output useful in understanding how the processes are linked
[09:41] <ibanezmatt13> in fact it didn't work
[09:41] <ibanezmatt13> It's still coming through on the radio
[09:41] <mfa298> check what's running now.
[09:41] <ibanezmatt13> oh sorry, I had to end both, I only ended the bash script
[09:41] <mfa298> killing the bash script may not have quit the python script so you might need to kill both still
[09:41] <ibanezmatt13> It's fine now
[09:42] <mfa298> did you still have the nohup when you called the python script or did you take that out ?
[09:42] <ibanezmatt13> I took that out
[09:43] <ibanezmatt13> Doesn't matter though because it worked
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[09:57] <HixWork> Bugger, about to start designing a quad and someone comes over with some work work. tut
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[10:00] <fsphil> nooo, not the W word
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[10:06] <ibanezmatt13> is anybody familiar with raspivid for the Pi Cam?
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[10:10] <fsphil> a little
[10:10] <ibanezmatt13> I was trying to make raspivid run forever. In the end I just decided to set the time to like 6 hours in ms
[10:11] <fsphil> yea, rather silly you can't specify forever
[10:12] <ibanezmatt13> yep, oh well. 18000000 ms will do :)
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[10:13] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, for the bash script for my raspivid line, should I still specify a delay of say 5 seconds in the loop?
[10:16] <ibanezmatt13> I was just thinking with the delay of 18000000ms I may not need that :)
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[10:18] <daveake> ibanezmatt13, check what that timeout actually does before flight. iirc cuddykid flew a Canon camera with a "max number of photos" value set high enough to cause an overflow, and ended up with few/no pictures
[10:19] <cuddykid> I set sleep to 1000000
[10:19] <cuddykid> max is 999 999
[10:19] <cuddykid> hence it ticked over to -1
[10:19] <cuddykid> which is shut down
[10:20] <daveake> hah thanks for adding facts to my memory :)
[10:20] <ibanezmatt13> I'll check, but I wonder if that's the same for raspivid
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[10:21] <daveake> check. always worth checking. do a dry-run flight on a new set of lithiums and everything as if it was actually flying
[10:22] <ibanezmatt13> will do
[10:22] <cuddykid> yeah, I tweaked this the morning of
[10:22] <cuddykid> stupidly
[10:22] <ibanezmatt13> somehow, what I've done to my bash script has messed things up a little
[10:22] <cuddykid> I thought, I need more time for filling! I know.. I'll pop it to a million
[10:23] <ibanezmatt13> in fact, it's working
[10:26] <ibanezmatt13> the Pi Cam seems to have a bit of an effect on the transmitter
[10:26] <cuddykid> very annoying the winds are bad over the next few days for me :(
[10:26] <cuddykid> looks like I have to wait 10 weeks now to launch
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[10:53] <daveake> I need votes please :-) https://www.facebook.com/element14page/app_160731467314127
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[10:55] <cuddykid> daveake: voted :)
[10:56] <cuddykid> you're going to win for sure
[10:56] <daveake> lol
[10:56] <cuddykid> 80% of the votes
[10:56] <daveake> hope so :)
[10:56] <daveake> and cheers :)
[10:56] <daveake> yeah but that's 80% of 5 ....
[10:56] <daveake> 1 was me, 1 Darkside, 1 you 1 a FB friend
[10:57] <cuddykid> haha
[10:57] <cuddykid> still, it's defiantly the best I think
[10:57] <cuddykid> the only other one that comes close is the frogs tongue or w/e
[10:58] <mfa298> it's the frogs toungue picture right :p
[10:58] <mfa298> I accidentally voted for Pi in the Sky instead
[10:58] <daveake> lol
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[11:34] <ibanezmatt13> I've been reading this: https://github.com/raspberrypi/userland/blob/master/host_applications/linux/apps/raspicam/RaspiVid.c As far as I can see, it doesn't look like there is a maximum time for raspivid to run for.
[11:35] <ibanezmatt13> Anybody know if there is a max time for raspivid to run? At the moment I have "raspivid -w 1280 -h 720 -o movie.mpg -t 18000000" the -t being 5 hours in milliseconds.
[11:36] <mfa298> try reading the source again...
[11:36] <mfa298> ... this looks interesting:
[11:36] <mfa298> { CommandTimeout, "-timeout", "t", "Time (in ms) to capture for. If not specified, set to 5s. Zero to disable", 1 },
[11:37] <ibanezmatt13> I specify the -t as 18000000, so I thought that it would automatically not set it to 5000
[11:37] <ibanezmatt13> It hasn't stopped recording so far and it has been 30 mins
[11:37] <mfa298> read the whole line of the help.
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[11:38] <ibanezmatt13> Doesn't look like it does have a max time
[11:39] <mfa298> there might be a better answer for what you're trying to do rather than the question your asking
[11:40] <ibanezmatt13> I'll just see if it runs the 4 hours
[11:41] <mfa298> there might be a max dependant on what type of variable the number is being stored in. In C you define the variable and it will have a length - although with out checking the source code to see how it reads in the input and also checking the size of types of variables in rasbian I'm not sure what the max might be.
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[11:41] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: the key to what I was hinting at is the words "Zero to disable"
[11:42] <ibanezmatt13> I looked at that thinking I could just put -t 0
[11:42] <mfa298> which sounds like it might make it run continuously
[11:42] <ibanezmatt13> The least I can do is try it
[11:43] <mfa298> that's the right answer, If you're not sure try it and see what happens.
[11:44] <ibanezmatt13> -t 0 made it end instantly.
[11:45] <fsphil> yea tried that
[11:45] <fsphil> you have to use a number
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[11:46] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, do you know if there is a max time for raspivid?
[11:48] <daveake> Use the source, Luke
[11:48] <daveake> s/Luke/Matt/ :)
[11:48] <mfa298> from what the README says on the github -t might not do what you think it does.
[11:48] <mfa298> The program will run for this length of time, then take the capture (if output is specified). If not specified, this is set to 5seconds
[11:49] <mfa298> that sounds a bit like it might wait that long before starting to capture anything.
[11:49] <fsphil> that's for pictures
[11:49] <mfa298> that was from the RaspiVid section in the readme!
[11:49] <fsphil> raspivid it's the time to capture video
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[11:49] <fsphil> must be a mistake
[11:50] <ibanezmatt13> it definitely works on raspivid as I've played back 20 mins of video. I was just wondering whether it would last until the end of my -t 18000000
[11:50] <fsphil> I refer to daveake's previous comment :)
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[11:52] <ibanezmatt13> brb, food
[11:53] <Laurenceb> http://hackaday.com/2013/06/17/brushless-motor-camera-gimbal/
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[12:08] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hand-made-Guinea-Pig-Scale-Mail-and-Helmet-Armor-/321142440749
[12:08] <SpeedEvil> I'm not quite sure why this is related to #ha
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[12:12] <Laurenceb> it looks... determined
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[12:17] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - HABE Lab - Friday 21st June - Worcester"
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[12:17] <cuddykid> going to fly a Pawan 1200 again..
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[12:40] <Ugi> SpeedEvil - that has to be final and unquestionable proof that the world has officially gone mad.
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[12:45] <Laurenceb> http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/287/3/R502.short
[12:46] <Laurenceb> i never knew that before
[12:47] <chris_99> haha that is awesome SpeedEvil!
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[12:48] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Interesting.
[12:48] Action: SpeedEvil wishes it was easier to study muscles without biopsies.
[12:49] Action: Laurenceb shoves reference in his thesis
[12:49] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, If I set a -t 18000000 for my raspivid and I choose to end it before it reaches that time, if I do ctrl+c will that delete the entire video that has been recorded or will it just save the video up to where it was ended?
[12:49] <Laurenceb> 26 pages of references O_o
[12:50] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: SIGHUP is probably the right signal to send generally to tell something to stop
[12:51] <ibanezmatt13> The issue is, even ending the program from where I am running raspivid from, it carries on unless I kill the correct PID number.
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: There is so much historical unexamined crap.
[12:53] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: yes
[12:53] <cuddykid> argh, anyone know how to stop these CRW (cannon raw) files from being creatd?
[12:53] <cuddykid> they keep getting created for some reason and are about 10Mb each
[12:53] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, yes CTRL+C or yes SIGHUP?
[12:54] <fsphil> yes it saves the video up to where it is ended
[12:54] Action: Laurenceb is trying to understand tissue versus metabolic acidosis
[12:54] <Laurenceb> for my PhD work
[12:54] <Laurenceb> s/metabolic/respiratory
[12:54] <ibanezmatt13> ok so if I want to end the program, I need to kill it using its PID. If I did sudo kill pidnumber, would it still be ok?
[12:55] <ibanezmatt13> Laurenceb, that sounds rather difficult
[12:56] <Brace> ibanezmatt13: yup, sounds right
[12:56] <Laurenceb> the most difficult thing is that im aiming to submit in a couple of months
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[12:56] <ibanezmatt13> cuddykid, I know I'm not usually good at helping people but I know that on my Nikon in the settings there's a mode to set the output file type from raw to jpeg. It should be similar on Canon but don't hold me to that
[12:56] <Laurenceb> scientific writing drives you slightly insane
[12:57] <Laurenceb> references for everything :PO
[12:57] <cuddykid> cheers ibanezmatt13 - I'll have a look
[12:57] <ibanezmatt13> np
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I couldn't find nice answers anywhere - for example - single extremal short burst of exertion on a muscle. What is the timescale of fibre breakdown/rebuilding - and what amount of protein is actually required.
[12:57] <Laurenceb> no clue here :P
[12:57] <ibanezmatt13> cuddykid, what Canon are you using?
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[12:57] <cuddykid> ibanezmatt13: A570
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: For example, do you need a large systemic surplus of protein to do anything - or will even a small amount of protein over a small excess go to muscle rebuilding if it's only needed in a small area.
[12:58] <cuddykid> didn't have this problem for 5 flights, now it's suddenly occuring
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: What's your actual PhD in?
[12:58] <Laurenceb> tissue vitality stuff
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Oooh - fun.
[12:58] <Laurenceb> sensors for detecting tissue with insufficient blood flow
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> Burns/scars/... ?
[12:59] <Laurenceb> yeah I should get a few patents out of it
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> strokes too, I guess.
[12:59] <Laurenceb> at the moment we are looking at detection of deterioration in critical patients
[12:59] <Laurenceb> as the skin flow tends to be cut off first
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> I've wondered about photogrammetry - pulsatile colorimetry
[13:00] <Laurenceb> currently writing a chapter on use of tissue pH - some interesting stuff
[13:00] <Laurenceb> i have a presentation somewhere...
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> But they need the patient to be naked, which is usually a problem
[13:01] <Ugi> Laurenceb - if you need a pharma' patent attorney or help in finding one, I'm happy to advise. It's what I do.
[13:02] <Laurenceb> interesting, thanks
[13:02] <Ugi> any time
[13:03] Action: Laurenceb proceeds to reveal all the info
[13:03] <Laurenceb> http://filebin.ca/l2F9giVcZPm/wrapper.pdf
[13:03] <Ugi> no No NO!
[13:03] <Laurenceb> heh
[13:03] <Laurenceb> ive given the presentation several times already
[13:04] <Ugi> Seriously, and I expect you know this, you need to keep what you do confidential if you really are thinking of a patent application.
[13:05] <Ugi> If you've presented it already then that doen't change anything thou'
[13:07] <Laurenceb> i only have a small steak in IP, so im not too enthusiastic :P
[13:08] <Laurenceb> also, its "science" and i like open access and all that
[13:08] <Laurenceb> you have to share some of your ideas
[13:08] <ibanezmatt13> cuddykid, is it a Canon A570IS?
[13:08] <cuddykid> yep
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: A lot of your calibration issues could be solved with a rabbit and a hole-punch.
[13:09] <Laurenceb> heh
[13:09] <ibanezmatt13> cuddykid, video or pics?
[13:09] <Laurenceb> UCL are helping me out with calibration issues
[13:09] <cuddykid> ibanezmatt13: pics
[13:09] <ibanezmatt13> ok, one sec
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> Coincidentally, I was wondering about something that looks very, very like the LEDs and photodiode.
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> For heartrate and blood oxygen measurment
[13:10] <Ugi> patents are intended to encourage sharing of ideas. It's just that they are a centuries-old idea and don't work too well in the context of high-tech.
[13:10] <Laurenceb> yeah - im using an F4 discovery
[13:11] <Laurenceb> with opamp photodiode interface
[13:11] <Laurenceb> very simple hardware
[13:11] <Ugi> With a decent patent agent you should not have to wait a long time to share.
[13:12] <cuddykid> ibanezmatt13: be back in 30 - leave me a PM if you want - thanks! :)
[13:12] <ibanezmatt13> sure :)
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[13:16] <ibanezmatt13> cuddykid, I've seen this in several places now: "The A570IS doesn't support the RAW or TIFF image formats" A little confusing
[13:17] <Ugi> There is a way to hack Canon cameras that people use for HAB (as well as other things)
[13:17] <Ugi> Could be that cuddykid has done that
[13:17] <Ugi> I need to look into it but haven't yet
[13:18] <ibanezmatt13> In the manual it mentions something about CHDK which allows the camera to take raw images. Perhaps it has something to do with that.
[13:18] <Ugi> Yes, that was what I was thinking: http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK
[13:22] <W0OTM> Howdy
[13:22] <ibanezmatt13> http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_for_Dummies scroll down to where it talks about RAW. The camera should take the image as a RAW, save it as a JPEG and discard the RAW. However, CHDK saves the JPEG and the RAW too. Under the RAW section of this, it explains steps to follow on how to enable save RAW which needs to be disabled. Perhaps that is a clue?
[13:23] <ibanezmatt13> Ugi, How do I pm someone?
[13:23] <ibanezmatt13> Nevermind, think I've done it
[13:24] <Ugi> Sorry ibanezmatt13 - never done it so I can't tell you.
[13:24] <ibanezmatt13> I've got it. You right click on the name and click "open new window." At least in Xchat anyway
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[13:36] <HixWork> science mnemonics anyone? http://goo.gl/au8wF
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[13:40] <ibanezmatt13> I must say, these Duracell Ni-MH rechargable AA's are fantastic for testing. I've been running the entire payload including the Pi Cam since 10 this morning and they've still got plenty voltage left. Each cell is still above 1.2V
[13:41] <HixWork> you get the 2400's ibanezmatt13?
[13:41] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[13:41] <ibanezmatt13> really pleased with them
[13:42] <HixWork> they are excellent, they last ages in my Nikon flash, and that EATS batteries, hence the recommendation
[13:42] <HixWork> I've got a shedload of them now
[13:42] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah thanks :)
[13:42] <HixWork> pay for themselves in no time
[13:43] <ibanezmatt13> certainly, I'd have gone through at least 12 Alkaline's by this stage
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[13:43] <HixWork> only downside is self draining over a couple of months
[13:44] <ibanezmatt13> Do you know how SIGHUP works in Linux?
[13:44] <ibanezmatt13> I'm trying to end a program with it
[13:45] <Brace> ibanezmatt13: google it!
[13:45] <Brace> you'll probably get a better explanation
[13:46] <ibanezmatt13> I'll take another look
[13:49] <Brace> but basically it's sending a signal to a process, normally to get it to re-read it's config files
[13:49] <Brace> but it actually means signal hangup
[13:50] <Brace> however it can kill the process
[13:50] <Ugi> Hixwork - today's XKCD also balloon related: http://xkcd.com/
[13:51] <ibanezmatt13> Wow, 1 hour 40 minutes of 720p vid only takes up 1.3gb. Not bad on a 32 gb card
[13:51] <ibanezmatt13> Should be ok for four hours of 1080p
[13:53] <HixWork> ugi heh
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[13:54] <Ugi> My fav' Nemonic for resistor codes was from evilmadscientist:
[13:55] <Ugi> Black Beetles Running On Your Garden Bring Very Good Weather.
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[14:21] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Toombes "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - HABE Lab - Friday 21st June - Worcester"
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[14:33] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: you need to check with the application. Not everything will use SIGHUP to end.
[14:33] <ibanezmatt13> it's ok. It turns out kill works fine. But, I've had a problem with the Pi Cam...
[14:34] <ibanezmatt13> It must have a max time
[14:34] <ibanezmatt13> When I started to play the video, it started where I would have expected to be half way through
[14:35] <ibanezmatt13> So with the reloop of the bash, the command must have reached a max time, looped, then started recording again with the same file name, thus overwriting it
[14:35] <ibanezmatt13> So to avoid that, I need to a: get rid of the max timeout, or b: set raspivid to save it as a different file name each time
[14:35] <ibanezmatt13> Neither of which I have discovered how to do through Google
[14:35] <mfa298> when you run kill it's sending a signal to the application which by default is SIGTERM
[14:36] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[14:36] <mfa298> if you run the command from a bash shell you can get that control the filename you run the program with.
[14:37] <mfa298> look at the date command and how back ticks ` work in bash
[14:37] <ibanezmatt13> I thought that. I thought of having a time stamp
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[14:38] <mfa298> you could also have a counter but date works well as you won't usually get clashes.
[14:39] <ibanezmatt13> I guess I could just do "raspivid -o /home/pi/%H%M%S.mpg -t 18000000" from what I've read so far, but I'll keep looking
[14:40] <mfa298> that's the general idea but you'll need to lookup the bits I mentioned before to make the magic happen
[14:40] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I will do
[14:40] <ibanezmatt13> looks like my tea's ready, I'll be back in 15
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[14:55] <ibanezmatt13> back]
[14:56] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, what do you mean exactly by this: if you run the command from a bash shell you can get that control the filename you run the program with
[14:56] <ibanezmatt13> nevermind
[14:56] <ibanezmatt13> I read it wrong
[14:56] <ibanezmatt13> I understand
[14:57] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, this bit: lookup the bits I mentioned before to make the magic happen
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[14:57] <mfa298> you want to look at the date command
[14:57] <mfa298> and lookup what back ticks do in a bash script
[14:58] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'll do that now
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[15:14] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - HABE Lab - Friday 21st June - Worcester"
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[15:17] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, I've had a good read and I've tried several things. All the time, the command saves the video file as something I don't want it to. e.g, it saves it as "%H%M%S.mpg" and keeps overwriting it.
[15:17] <mfa298> what command are you currently trying to run.
[15:18] <ibanezmatt13> raspivid -w 1920 -h 720 -o /home/pi/%H%M%S.mpg -t 10000
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[15:18] <fsphil> fswebcam does the time thing, raspivid doesn't
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[15:18] <fsphil> you'll have to do that manually
[15:18] <ibanezmatt13> I looked at date
[15:18] <mfa298> that's where I hinted at date and back ticks
[15:19] <ibanezmatt13> I couldn't work out what back ticks where. It was like running a command with '...'
[15:19] <ibanezmatt13> were*
[15:20] <x-f> ` <--
[15:20] <mfa298> usually on the top left of the keyboard
[15:20] <mfa298> they do intresting things with the output of the program
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[15:21] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[15:22] <mfa298> first of all see if you can get the date command to print out the time in a suitable format for a filename
[15:22] <mfa298> (hint spaces are generally bad)
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[15:24] <ibanezmatt13> http://ss64.com/bash/date.html I'm not sure whether I would write it as date -T or something else. I'm trying to get the 24 hour format as stated in the 'time' section. But I'm not sure if the format of it is correct
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[15:25] <mfa298> try it out
[15:26] <ibanezmatt13> am doing :)
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[15:26] <mfa298> there's some examples of how to use date on that page as well
[15:27] <mfa298> don't forget you can also try man date
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[15:32] <ibanezmatt13> few things haven't worked yet. I may be getting close
[15:33] <mfa298> if you're not getting anything out try looking at the examples on that page
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[15:36] <ibanezmatt13> think I may have it
[15:36] <ibanezmatt13> And I think I know why you hinted back ticks
[15:37] <ibanezmatt13> raspivid -w 1920 -h 1280 -o /home/pi/`date %H%M%S`.mpg -t 18000000
[15:37] <ibanezmatt13> perhaps?
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[15:38] <mfa298> that's along the right lines
[15:38] <mfa298> you could try it and see what happens.
[15:38] Action: x-f is tempted to give the right answer, but admits mfa298's teaching method is better.
[15:39] <ibanezmatt13> :
[15:39] <ibanezmatt13> Didn't work, x-f I'll see if I can do it
[15:40] <mfa298> chances are you got an error message if it didn't work.
[15:40] <ibanezmatt13> Yes I did
[15:41] <ibanezmatt13> error opening output file /home/pi So the `` bit didn't work. And, it didn't know what SLEEP was, and it said there was an invalid time
[15:41] <ibanezmatt13> that's not good
[15:42] <mfa298> when trying to make it work it's usually worth trying out the individual commands in a terminal
[15:43] <ibanezmatt13> I tried date %H%M%S on its own and it returned exactly what I want
[15:43] <ibanezmatt13> 160535 or something like that
[15:43] <mfa298> are you sure - I get an error when I run date like that
[15:44] <ibanezmatt13> ah, I missed something out. '+'
[15:44] <ibanezmatt13> Sorry :z\
[15:44] <ibanezmatt13> should be date +%H%M%S
[15:44] <mfa298> that looks better
[15:44] <ibanezmatt13> I'll try it again
[15:46] <ibanezmatt13> it worked
[15:46] <ibanezmatt13> But
[15:46] <ibanezmatt13> Appaerntly the sleep part is incorrect
[15:46] <ibanezmatt13> SLEEP 5
[15:46] <ibanezmatt13> I tried sleep 5
[15:46] <ibanezmatt13> And SLEEP(5) and sleep(5)
[15:47] <mfa298> one of those 5 looks correct
[15:47] <ibanezmatt13> Yet SLEEP 5 actually works in my other bash script
[15:47] <mfa298> you can always test it by trying things on a command line
[15:47] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I'll try it
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[15:51] <ibanezmatt13> sorted
[15:51] <ibanezmatt13> Why the heck did I capitalise it
[15:52] <fsphil> you sleep loudly?
[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> afraid so :)
[15:53] <ibanezmatt13> I may take the delay out actually. In theory, the video shouldn't stop, but if it does like it did after 1 h 30 mins before, it can restart under a new name straight away. Should be fine without delay
[15:53] <fsphil> worth restarting it now and then, if the Pi lost power on landing an opened file might get corrupt
[15:54] <ibanezmatt13> I may miss a vital part of flight
[15:54] <fsphil> yep :)
[15:54] <ibanezmatt13> better than missing all of it I suppose
[15:55] <fsphil> there are three vital bits I guess, launch, burst and landing
[15:55] <ibanezmatt13> Yep, don't want to miss any really
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[15:56] <ibanezmatt13> reckon it's worth it then? Restarting the bash script to run the video?
[15:57] <ibanezmatt13> I could do it every say 10 minutes. Surely the loss I'd have would be negligable. Restarts should be quick I would think...
[15:57] <fsphil> up to you
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[15:59] <ibanezmatt13> When you say restarting, do you mean just shortening the time of each video so that it can keep starting new videos?
[15:59] <ibanezmatt13> That way, the delay between ending one video and starting the next would be extremely small
[15:59] <ibanezmatt13> I think
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[16:07] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: ping
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[16:13] <ibanezmatt13> ping UpuWork
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[16:15] <ibanezmatt13> Hi S_Mark
[16:15] <S_Mark> Hello ibanezmatt13
[16:16] <ibanezmatt13> I've been looking at your payload design
[16:16] <S_Mark> Ah yeah
[16:16] <ibanezmatt13> I'm starting to design my own box and I'm not very good at it
[16:16] <S_Mark> Lol right ok
[16:16] <S_Mark> Whats the prob
[16:17] <ibanezmatt13> I have all my stuff that needs to go in, but I'm just thinking about which components should go where. On your video, were where your voltage regulators?
[16:18] <S_Mark> I didn't have separate voltage regulators - they were built into the Ardunio Uno board, which is underneath the board with the GPS and NTX2 on
[16:18] <ibanezmatt13> ah right ok
[16:18] <S_Mark> Have you seen the video
[16:18] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[16:18] <S_Mark> Cool ok
[16:19] <S_Mark> What is the plan then, seen you talking about a Pi - are you going straight for that on your first launch?
[16:19] <ibanezmatt13> yes, Pi, Pi Cam, UBLOX, NTX2
[16:19] <ibanezmatt13> 6 Lithium AA's, 2 voltage REGS
[16:19] <ibanezmatt13> That's it pretty much
[16:19] <S_Mark> Cool how come pi? You gunna so SSDV?
[16:19] <S_Mark> do
[16:20] <ibanezmatt13> well, if I had a decent HD camera with a good battery life yes I would have done. I already have had that working and it's really cool
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[16:20] <ibanezmatt13> But, we only have a Pi Cam with a limited budget and we really want non stop HD video too
[16:20] <S_Mark> so you gunna be recording onto the pi SD card?
[16:21] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[16:21] <S_Mark> I see
[16:21] <S_Mark> You have the Pi working now?
[16:21] <S_Mark> getting gps and sending over ntx2?
[16:21] <ibanezmatt13> Would have prefered pics personally but we also want video. Yes, Pi works perfectly. All on stripboard ready for box yes
[16:22] <ibanezmatt13> All ready now, just need to plan the box which is prooving tough
[16:22] <S_Mark> soldered stripoard
[16:22] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[16:22] <S_Mark> cool
[16:22] <Ugi> Hi S_Mark - is yours the Stratodean project?
[16:22] <S_Mark> Hi Ugi, yep
[16:22] <Ugi> Lovely project and the write-up is great.
[16:23] <S_Mark> ah thanks very much!
[16:23] <S_Mark> guys will be back in 10 mins!
[16:23] <Ugi> I think I'm going to end up with something quite similar first time at least.
[16:23] <ibanezmatt13> agreed, excellent write up
[16:23] <S_Mark> brb
[16:23] <Ugi> see ya'
[16:23] <ibanezmatt13> Ugi, Where are you based? In the UK?
[16:24] <Ugi> Essex
[16:24] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right, cool
[16:25] <Ugi> I Guess that's your payload on the tracker near Wigan
[16:25] <ibanezmatt13> yep :)
[16:25] <Ugi> Good stuff
[16:26] <ibanezmatt13> Not a good place for launching though... Right under MAN's flight path
[16:26] <Ugi> Got my GPS today - gotta see if I can get myself on there sometime soon!
[16:26] <ibanezmatt13> Definitely
[16:26] <Ugi> Ah - I see the issue with flight path
[16:26] <ibanezmatt13> Many transatlantic heavies coming in, very busy
[16:27] <ibanezmatt13> Liverpool traffic too
[16:27] <Ugi> Humm. Can't go north or south a bit to evade flight-path? M6 looks handy
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[16:32] <ibanezmatt13> I'm sure we can.
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[16:34] <Ugi> We're going to have issues like that too - east wind would put a payload in London, westerly could put it into the sea
[16:35] <ibanezmatt13> So I now have my code taking a 5 minute video, saving it, then immediately starting to record another 5 minute video. Am I right in thinking that this will lower the probability of getting a corrupt file?
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[16:35] <Ugi> Might need to head up to Cambridge & launch from there.
[16:35] <ibanezmatt13> Our initial plan is to go to Cambridge
[16:36] <Ugi> Seems popular
[16:36] <ibanezmatt13> Loads of people launch there to so it's likely there'll be help available for us filling the balloon and so on
[16:36] <anerDev> hi guys ! ordered this: http://www.ebay.it/itm/190855889353?ssPageName=STRK:null:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1542.l2649
[16:36] <Ugi> If you do then I might even be able to be one of those tracking you!
[16:36] <anerDev> I hope that in 6 days will arrive ://
[16:36] <ibanezmatt13> That would be good, the more the better
[16:38] <Ugi> Don't have a great setup yet - need a real antenna - but have got some signals from that way.
[16:38] <Ugi> easily enough to test my payload and find it if close-by thou'
[16:39] <Ugi> might need a small Yagi for hunting the landing site I reckon
[16:40] <WILLdude> Is the diamond x-50 vertical, co-linear or both?
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[16:41] <mfa298> it's definetly vertical and I think it's a colinear
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[16:41] <Ugi> I think any straight antenna as long as that is likely to be colinear
[16:42] <mfa298> a colinear is a particular type of vertical
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[16:43] <WILLdude> Is it one?
[16:43] <WILLdude> There are sooo many antennas to choose from.
[16:43] <chrisstubbs> Ugi, http://bit.ly/XPYfHz worked pretty well for the price, think its gone up since then
[16:43] <chrisstubbs> the build quality was horrid though, needed a bit of modification :P
[16:43] <mfa298> I don't think it's going to make a huge difference for what you want to do whether it's a colinear or not.
[16:44] <WILLdude> Is it because I called it one in my email to someone? :)
[16:44] <mfa298> the key bit is that it's designed for the right bands and that it's vertical polarisation
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[16:44] <Ugi> Looks a good price, but what modification needed?
[16:45] <WILLdude> What is vertical polarization.
[16:45] <Ugi> effects of element diameter and length on phase etc are well beyond my level at present!
[16:45] <chrisstubbs> Some of the mounting holes were sloppily drilled so i redrilled them, and had to bend all the brackets out that hold the elements
[16:45] <mfa298> I think it is a colinear - don't worry too much. There tends to be bits of confusion as to what's a colinear and what's not
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[16:46] <WILLdude> Okay.
[16:47] <Upu> hi did people need me ?
[16:47] <Ugi> Ah - that type of thing I can handle - as long as you didn't need to re-tune it by some detailed theoretical analysis!
[16:47] <Upu> Gadget-Mac / ibanezmatt13
[16:47] <WILLdude> Most shortwave ham communications are on 70cm and 2m right?
[16:47] <Ugi> Hi Upu - thanks for getting those GPSs turned round so fast - mine came today
[16:47] <mfa298> WILLdude: polarization is roughly which way the waves go, which is related to how the antenna is mounted,
[16:47] <chrisstubbs> Ugi, Not tested it like that at all, but it helped us find NSE2 when the antenna smashed to bits on landing :P
[16:47] <Upu> nps
[16:47] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Upu, the parts arrived. Thanks
[16:47] <Upu> super :)
[16:48] <WILLdude> anerDev: Are you going to get a HABamp with that?
[16:48] <mfa298> WILLdude: shortwave tends to refer to lower frequencies - more like things up to 30MHz
[16:48] <ibanezmatt13> I guess I may have to modify the stripboard a little though
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[16:48] <Ugi> chrisstubbs - that sounds like what I need. Something useful and not too delicate
[16:48] <Ugi> ships from far east?
[16:49] <WILLdude> Hi Upu
[16:49] <Upu> hi Will
[16:49] <chrisstubbs> Yeah took about 3 weeks, apparently the LPRS ones are nice but about £40 i think
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[16:50] <Ugi> Great - good enough works for me and I'm not going to be launching in less than 3 weeks.
[16:50] <ibanezmatt13> Upu, is it just a case of drilling the holes a little bigger?
[16:50] <Upu> for ?
[16:50] <ibanezmatt13> the SMA connector
[16:50] <Upu> does it not fit ?
[16:51] <WILLdude> mfa298: Well, UHF/VHF.
[16:51] <WILLdude> I think.
[16:51] <ibanezmatt13> the legs are a little big for the holes
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[16:52] <mfa298> WILLdude: for finding the HAM bands the band plans on http://rsgb.org/main/operating/band-plans/ will help.
[16:53] <mfa298> I'd suggest the Excel or PDF versions
[16:53] <anerDev> WILLdude
[16:53] <anerDev> yes, because yesterday I broke my ezcap
[16:53] <S_Mark> back now
[16:53] <mfa298> VHF/UHF bands are 6m, 4m, 2m and 70cm. with 2m probably being the most popular. But as you go up the bands the range can drop
[16:53] <ibanezmatt13> Upu, just slightly too big for the holes. Would a little drill do the trick?
[16:54] <WILLdude> anerDev: Cool
[16:54] <S_Mark> glad you found the write up useful Ugi ibanezmatt13
[16:54] <Ugi> Hi S_Mark
[16:55] <Ugi> Yep, very interesting. I think I'm going to have to work on the Canon camera for mine
[16:55] <Ugi> Did you have any issues with SD card size
[16:55] <Ugi> ?
[16:55] <anerDev> WILLdude I will buy a Yagi, but for now I need this
[16:56] <S_Mark> Nope, just used a 16gb which was more than enough
[16:56] <S_Mark> a810
[16:56] <Ugi> Great - I bought a 32 and I have a 16 anyway but someone said on here that some cameras have issues
[16:56] <Ugi> especially once hacked
[16:57] <S_Mark> ah no should be fine, you got the same camera?
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[16:58] <Ugi> Think so - A810
[17:00] <Ugi> 32GB is enough for 16Mpix still every 0.5-1 second for a 3h flight!
[17:00] <Ugi> or so it seems
[17:01] <S_Mark> I couldnt get the photos to take more than once every 8 - 10 seconds
[17:01] <Ugi> Why so?
[17:01] <eroomde> always assume that you will have to hold for 1 hour on the ground
[17:01] <Ugi> Not looked into scripting at all so may be obvious
[17:01] <Ugi> Thanks eroomde - good thought
[17:01] <WILLdude> Ugi: You are messing up my tab completion for Upu.
[17:01] <WILLdude> :)
[17:01] <eroomde> and thus will almost certainly miss apogee and burst if you size your SD card to only just hold a nominal flight's worth of stuff
[17:02] <S_Mark> agreed eroomde
[17:02] <eroomde> it happens time and time again
[17:02] <eroomde> especially with video
[17:02] <WILLdude> I have to waste an extra half second now.
[17:02] <Ugi> Don't know what tab completion is but sorry about that!
[17:02] <eroomde> that'll add up to something significant over a year WILLdude
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[17:02] <eroomde> Ugi: type 'ero' then hit tab
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[17:02] <Ugi> eroomde: Gotcha
[17:02] <eroomde> it should autocomplete to'eroomde' if you have a half decent irc client
[17:03] <WILLdude> Webchat does it too.
[17:03] <eroomde> yep
[17:03] <Ugi> only on the web client but it works
[17:03] <S_Mark> Ugi: the camera takes time to set itself, focus, take the pic, save it to memory card, start again
[17:03] <WILLdude> Ugi: Don't worry about it.
[17:04] <Ugi> WILLdude: Ta' - and thanks for the tab tip!
[17:04] <WILLdude> You could change your nickname but that would be too helpful :P
[17:05] <Ugi> 15 years too late for that! Sorry.
[17:05] <S_Mark> he is entitled to his name WILLdude
[17:05] <S_Mark> lol
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[17:05] <Ugi> I've been Ugi since 1997 at least
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[17:06] <Ugi> I's a four-component condensation reaction, as I'm sure you well know.
[17:06] <eroomde> xkcd is so named because it was a unique string and so easy to grep IRC logs
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[17:08] <WILLdude> So easy to grep ?
[17:09] <eroomde> and therefore easy to search for in large logs of conversations, with a very low likelihood of an accidental hit
[17:09] <eroomde> it's a very improbably string of characters in almost any language
[17:10] <eroomde> whereas if you were to hunt through the zeusbot logs for 'will' you might find a conversation about will power
[17:10] <eroomde> or good will hunting
[17:10] <eroomde> or the actor rufus sewill (misspelt)
[17:11] <WILLdude> Right.
[17:11] <eroomde> or swill
[17:11] <S_Mark> or "will you stop complaining about peoples nicknames"
[17:11] <eroomde> or willies
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[17:13] <Ugi> S_Mark: you put in your blog that you would like to try a custom PCB. I have a batch of 10, of which I am likely to use about 2.
[17:13] <Ugi> if they work, would you like one/some?
[17:13] <WILLdude> Does the RSGB bandplan just show typical usage of frequencies or are they legally only allowed on their frequencies?
[17:13] <Ugi> (free obviously)
[17:13] <eroomde> WILLdude: the band plan is a 'gentleman's agreement'
[17:14] <eroomde> it's basically the agreed standards. it's not legally binding
[17:14] <eroomde> but it allows everyone to get along
[17:14] <S_Mark> Hi Ugi, that is very kind - I'll pm now
[17:14] <eroomde> sometimes it's ok to not quite follow it, eg using ntx2s on 434.650 which is in theory a repeater input but has absolutely zero bloody chance of possibly activating a repeater ever
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[17:15] <mfa298> it's only the gentlemens agreenment for HAM stuff. License exempt things don't have to work to the HAM bandplans (but might have their own limits).
[17:16] <mfa298> There are some legal bits in there but that's the band limits (144.0-146.0 for 2m) and the transmission power limits
[17:17] <WILLdude> How come many ham repeaters are on license free bands?
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[17:18] <mfa298> probably historical
[17:19] <mfa298> repeaters have been around for 30+years, license free stuff is a fairly recent thing.
[17:19] <eroomde> i think all repeaters are technically non-compliant with ofcom/ham rules
[17:19] <eroomde> and they all have NoVs
[17:19] <eroomde> i *think* that's the case anyway
[17:19] <WILLdude> NoVs?
[17:20] <eroomde> the interest i take in it is a bit limited so there will be more authoritative sources
[17:20] <eroomde> notice of variation
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[17:20] <mfa298> both license free and Amateur on 70cm are secondary users. MoD are the people who own the band
[17:20] <eroomde> special permission you can apply for to do something outside the rules
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[17:21] <WILLdude> Oh yeah the rule you cant use it within 100km of Charing's Cross.
[17:21] <WILLdude> Which basically means no car keys.
[17:22] <eroomde> well exactly
[17:22] <eroomde> a lot of it is all a bit silly
[17:22] <Ugi> I gotta run guys
[17:22] <Ugi> TTFN
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[17:22] <WILLdude> It makea
[17:22] <WILLdude> It makes for a cool fac
[17:22] <WILLdude> *fact
[17:22] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[17:23] <mfa298> remember these are the rules/agreement for HAM use not license free so the 100km of charring cross won't apply to car keys
[17:23] <eroomde> i suspect most hams ignore it too
[17:23] <mfa298> probably
[17:23] <eroomde> there are 70cm repeaters in london afterall
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[17:24] <mfa298> repeaters are probably outside the 431-432 exclusion
[17:25] <WILLdude> I'm bored.
[17:26] <eroomde> read a book
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[17:27] <jcoxon> fsphil, time for another test of hitting hte iss
[17:28] <number10> something to read WILLdude http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/
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[17:31] <number10> or how about this WILLdude http://www.open.edu/openlearn/science-maths-technology/science/physics-and-astronomy/galaxies-stars-and-planets/content-section-0
[17:31] <eroomde> theoreticalminimum.com
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[17:34] <number10> thats good eroomde - maybe useful for my nephew who is interested in physics
[17:35] <babs_> afternoon all - i have a question on servo modification where you are modding a servo for continuous rotation
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[17:35] <babs_> the technique seems pretty established and basic
[17:35] <eroomde> shoot
[17:35] <babs_> but before I break it open and do something I will regret
[17:35] <eroomde> number10: yes very much
[17:35] <number10> he is doing AS and is off to a summer thing at CU
[17:36] <eroomde> oh great
[17:36] <babs_> do you just write a number to a servo between 0 and 360 rather than 0 and 180 once the mod has been done, or is accessing the 180-360 degree rotational part of the servo more complex than that?
[17:36] <eroomde> neither
[17:36] <eroomde> well
[17:37] <eroomde> typically a servo pulse is a pulse you send 50 times per second
[17:37] <eroomde> the pulse length is between 1ms and 2ms
[17:37] <eroomde> 1.5ms in in the middle
[17:37] <eroomde> 1ms is the extreme at one end (say -90 dgereees), 2ms is the other extreme (say 90 degrees)
[17:37] <babs_> eroomde, I'm using the servo.h library on arduino, and i guess that the higher level library is doing that work for me
[17:37] <eroomde> hmm possible
[17:37] <eroomde> ok, well the position interval maps onto speed
[17:38] <eroomde> 0 degrees = 0rpm
[17:38] <eroomde> full one way = full speed one way
[17:38] <eroomde> full swing the other way = full speed the other way
[17:38] <babs_> to go to +90 degrees i just myservo1.write(90) (where myservo1 is the name of my servo)
[17:39] <eroomde> i'm not familiar with arduino but if that's the case then yep
[17:39] <eroomde> that'll be full speed
[17:39] <babs_> I've got no need to spin it continuously really, its just a matter of taking a -180 to 180 and doing a translation
[17:39] <babs_> yes, it is full speed
[17:39] <eroomde> except that actually servo pulses are not quite that reguklar, so 1ms might not be -90, it might be -78 or -102 or whatever
[17:39] <babs_> which might normally be an issue with kick back
[17:40] <eroomde> position linearly maps to speed after the mod, basically
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[17:40] <babs_> ok, understood
[17:41] <babs_> I'll give it a go and see how I get on
[17:41] <eroomde> the mod just bypasses the feedback potentiometer and fixes it as the voltage when the pot is in the middle
[17:41] <babs_> it sounds as if even if the servo library doesnt work, there is a lower level coding solution that can do the same thing
[17:41] <eroomde> and then takes advanatge of the fact that a servo controller is basically proportional feedback, so the voltage applies to the motor is propertional to the effor between current angle and desired angle
[17:42] <babs_> understood
[17:43] <eroomde> so if you wantyes there is lower level
[17:43] <eroomde> you can just gen the pulses
[17:43] <eroomde> 1ms-2ms, 50 pulses per second
[17:43] <eroomde> 1ms fullspeed one way, 2ms full speed the other, 1.5ms 0 speed
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[17:44] <babs_> ok, lets see whether the simpler solution works for now. tbh i'm dying to take the thing apart now i know it is doable so even if i have to learn a bit more on the coding side it will be worth it
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[17:44] <babs_> thanks eroomde
[17:44] <eroomde> yep take it apart
[17:44] <eroomde> it's a fun mod
[17:44] <eroomde> used to do that loads when i was 13 for making little robot wars robots
[17:45] <babs_> george francis was my favourite robot war competitor
[17:45] <babs_> boy, girl, who knows?
[17:45] <eroomde> haha
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[17:46] <eroomde> amazed you remember
[17:46] <Upu> ibanezmatt13
[17:46] <eroomde> i really like george
[17:46] <Upu> its edge mount
[17:46] <babs_> although he does have his own wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Francis_(Robot_Wars)
[17:46] <eroomde> but yes i was never sure
[17:46] <Upu> just just slide on the edge
[17:46] <eroomde> he helped me out a lot tho
[17:46] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Upu
[17:46] <babs_> like? do you know him
[17:46] <ibanezmatt13> Slide it on the edge?
[17:46] <eroomde> yes
[17:46] <babs_> THAT IS AWESOME
[17:46] <babs_> is he a boy or a girl?
[17:46] <eroomde> i used to run robot wars events
[17:47] <eroomde> he often judged
[17:47] <eroomde> boy anatomically
[17:47] <ibanezmatt13> I don't quite understand. How will it connect to the NTX2 Upu? And how will it be soldered?
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[17:47] <Upu> ibanezmatt13 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_0869.JPG
[17:47] <Upu> note it slides on
[17:47] <eroomde> less sure by temperament
[17:47] <Upu> I don't have any here
[17:48] <Upu> but it should just slide on parallel to three tracks
[17:48] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right
[17:48] <ibanezmatt13> Then just solder?
[17:48] <Upu> bingo
[17:48] <ibanezmatt13> Any particular way round?
[17:48] <eroomde> rex garrod was my big hero
[17:48] <Upu> well you can't solder the bottom
[17:48] <Upu> so just the top with the center pin on the NTX2 TXD
[17:49] <ibanezmatt13> Centre pin on NTX2 txd? I thought it was those three other pins?
[17:49] <babs_> I mock but his robots were awesome
[17:50] <eroomde> they were
[17:50] <Upu> center pin on the SMA = NTX TXD
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[17:50] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right. What are those three other ones for then?
[17:51] <babs_> rex garrod also built Brum
[17:51] <Upu> ground
[17:51] <eroomde> robot wars got me into engineering
[17:51] <Upu> slide it on where you think it should go
[17:51] <Upu> and take a picture before soldering and lets take a look
[17:51] <eroomde> i got the bug just before the years of girl-hiatus
[17:51] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, so i dont need those 3
[17:51] <ibanezmatt13> ok
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[17:52] <Upu> yes they need to be grounded
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[17:52] <eroomde> otherwise i'm pretty sure i'd have gone in a completely different direction
[17:52] <ibanezmatt13> All 3 of those other pins go to ground?
[17:52] <babs_> The US got KITT (and KARR for the that matter). We got Brum.
[17:53] <ibanezmatt13> This by the way is how I fail at box design :) https://www.dropbox.com/s/a03lgwgbxgcl3sn/photo%20%287%29.JPG
[17:53] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, http://i.imgur.com/4smdrem.png
[17:53] <ibanezmatt13> So they do go on those other three pins... hmm
[17:53] <babs_> Robot wars very similar to HAB-ing in many ways. multi disiciplinary. electronics, engineering, radio.
[17:54] <babs_> Although to my knowledge Phillipa Forrester never presented any programs on HAB.
[17:54] <eroomde> :)
[17:54] <eroomde> but yes it did get me into a systems-ey mindset right back then
[17:54] <eroomde> which is useful as i like say thermodynamics as much as electronics now
[17:55] <eroomde> and stayed fairly general
[17:55] <babs_> Which for many teenage boys my age was at least 50% of the pull of robot wars.
[17:55] <chrisstubbs> I guess Upu meant "RFOUT"
[17:55] <Upu> damn
[17:55] <Upu> sorry yes
[17:55] <Upu> not had food brain not working
[17:55] <Upu> I can understand why you'd find that confusing
[17:55] <eroomde> RW was dying off when i got to that kinda age
[17:55] <WILLdude> http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/http://www.open.edu/openlearn/science-maths-technology/science/physics-and-astro
[17:55] <WILLdude> nomy/galaxies-stars-and-planets/content-section-0
[17:55] <WILLdude> Sorry
[17:55] <eroomde> hmm actually maybe i'm just misremembering
[17:56] <chrisstubbs> can we put my awful image on the wiki?
[17:56] <eroomde> more my interest in it was dying off at that age
[17:56] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: I'm still confused, sorry :\ What am I doing here?
[17:56] <Upu> ok
[17:57] <Upu> you need to connect that SMA connector to the RFOUT
[17:57] <Upu> and RFGND pins on the NTX2
[17:57] <ibanezmatt13> So the three other pins are for the SMA, the other 4 stay as they are?
[17:57] <Upu> yes
[17:57] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[17:57] <Upu> slide the sma on the edge of the strip board
[17:57] <babs_> man i am too old. i have my 20 year gaudy at uni this Friday :-(
[17:57] <Upu> and take a pic of it
[17:57] <ibanezmatt13> So only 3 of those pins on the actual connector are used? The other 2 aren;t?
[17:58] <eroomde> babs_: my dad is up this weekend too
[17:58] <eroomde> but 40 yr
[17:58] <eroomde> some balliol thing
[17:58] <ibanezmatt13> I'll take a pic now
[17:58] <babs_> Which college?
[17:58] <eroomde> balliol
[17:59] <eroomde> ...
[17:59] <babs_> was it his second choice or something?
[17:59] <eroomde> lol
[18:00] <eroomde> well it does seem odd for an OE at the height of people's republic but i dunno
[18:00] <eroomde> i think one of his teachers said he should go there to do law
[18:00] <eroomde> in the interview they said 'i think you should do classics'
[18:00] <babs_> OE?
[18:00] <eroomde> he got there, started rowing, and switched to french because he was french
[18:00] <eroomde> so he could row
[18:01] <eroomde> old etonian - the only english school french granny had heard of and therefore the place he had to go
[18:02] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5tjnv1uha6thaf4/photo%20%289%29.JPG
[18:02] <Upu> yep bingo
[18:02] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3eqge5g6ti6g5mw/photo%20%288%29.JPG it's gonna be a real tight fit
[18:03] <eroomde> babs_: where were you?
[18:04] <babs_> it was *exactly* the same process with my granny choosing my school
[18:04] <eroomde> you're french?
[18:04] <Upu> just make the center pin on the SMA centered on the RFOUT track
[18:04] <Upu> also try the larger one
[18:04] <babs_> no, she was from Wolverhampton and the only school she knew of was the local comprehesniv
[18:04] <jcoxon> oh dear Ipswich made it onto slashdot
[18:04] <babs_> *comprehensive, so i went there
[18:05] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: The Pi is very close to where the coax cable will be going into the SMA. Hiopefully it'll fit ok
[18:05] <eroomde> where at oxford tho?
[18:06] <babs_> eroomde - Brasenose. i applied for maths but unluckily had the mathematical ability of an amoeba.
[18:07] <babs_> Luckily however, the maths tutor who i interviewed with played on the football team and needed a new central midfielder
[18:07] <eroomde> i've had a few friends apply to do maths at uni and come in for a terrible terrible surprise
[18:08] <eroomde> a-level maths, it turns out, doesn;t really have anything to do with actual maths
[18:08] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: really
[18:08] <babs_> No joke, they asked me to differentiate in the interview and i integrated instead
[18:08] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: it's bascially just arithmatic at school
[18:08] <babs_> i blame the comprehensive school system
[18:08] <babs_> although i could outdrink all of the poshos from day 1
[18:09] <babs_> its all about making the most of your core capabilities
[18:09] <eroomde> at least you knew it was something to do with calculus tho
[18:09] <eroomde> that's a start
[18:09] <babs_> physics is the best prep for business
[18:09] <eroomde> it's the first month spent showing 1=1 that seems to put people off
[18:09] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not sure what I want to do at uni. I'm doing A level: Maths, Physics and computing
[18:09] <eroomde> and then the more maths you do the less sure of that you become
[18:10] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: are you doing them already?
[18:10] <eroomde> or are you about to start?
[18:10] <ibanezmatt13> about to start
[18:10] <babs_> all of business comes down to looking at a multitude of variables that affect a business, and choosing the ones that you can estimate most accurately and most affect the outcome
[18:10] <ibanezmatt13> well, not actually picked them yet
[18:10] <eroomde> if it's not too late, and if you feel like you can, then I would really recommend doing further maths too
[18:10] <ibanezmatt13> I'm still considering it but I think it might be too much for me
[18:11] <eroomde> it's really quite important to a lot of sciencey degrees, especially at oxbridge (if you want to give that a try)
[18:11] <babs_> eroomde - true! all of my mates used to p*ss themselves when they say 1=1 at the bottom of the page
[18:11] <eroomde> well, you've picked up the programming stuff pretty quickly
[18:11] <eroomde> i think you could probably manage further maths
[18:11] <ibanezmatt13> that's not really further maths though
[18:11] <babs_> or in my case, 1=0 at least until midway through the second year
[18:11] <ibanezmatt13> Further maths looks truly brain-crushing
[18:11] <eroomde> it's just more maths
[18:11] <eroomde> maths is stupid, right
[18:11] <babs_> ibanezmatt13 - you could definitely manage further maths
[18:11] <eroomde> it's conceptually simple stuff
[18:12] <eroomde> encoding with hyroglyphs
[18:12] <eroomde> to make it harder to understand
[18:12] <ibanezmatt13> no it really isn't simple
[18:12] <eroomde> encoded*
[18:12] <eroomde> yes it is
[18:12] <eroomde> i promise
[18:12] <ibanezmatt13> :\
[18:12] <eroomde> so much maths learning looks like this:
[18:12] <eroomde> 'what the fk..... what the fk.... what the fk... what are you tsalking about... ... .... OH! why the hell didn;t you just say it like that to begin with?'
[18:12] <babs_> my school didn't offer it, and i was b7ggered when it came to studying it because i thought a matrix was just a keanu reeves film
[18:13] <eroomde> you're older than that surely :p
[18:13] <ibanezmatt13> haha, I wish it was like that. For me, the last part doesn't exist
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[18:13] <eroomde> i promise it gets easier
[18:13] <ibanezmatt13> I looked at the Binomial Expansion formula and then I died
[18:13] <eroomde> programming and maths are the same
[18:13] <eroomde> integration is just a for loop
[18:13] <eroomde> it's different ways of expressive the same thing
[18:13] <ibanezmatt13> I actually understand calculus
[18:13] <eroomde> expressing*
[18:14] <ibanezmatt13> Isn't that finding the area between two limits?
[18:14] <eroomde> i could teach you everything you need to know about binomial expandsion and binomial distribution and pascal's trinagle (all the same thing) with diagrams in about 30 minutes
[18:14] <ibanezmatt13> I understand the triangle
[18:14] <eroomde> i promise, it's really *just* about finding the right way to look at it
[18:15] <ibanezmatt13> I can do it with the triangle
[18:15] <eroomde> at least until you gwet up to scary degree maths
[18:15] <eroomde> then you just have to trust the formalism of your maths system because it's too brain-bending to actually intuiviely grapple
[18:15] <ibanezmatt13> but ncr, substituting the right values into n and r, and understanding where it comes from with all the factorials and stuff... that's where I fail
[18:15] <babs_> eroomde - or switch to applied maths, like i did
[18:15] <eroomde> or that
[18:16] <eroomde> but then we trusted the formalism somewhere around cubic roots and imaginary numbers
[18:16] <eroomde> i can't give you i fish
[18:16] <eroomde> i can give you 2 fish
[18:16] <ibanezmatt13> i is a right pain
[18:16] <eroomde> i can just about give you -2 fish in that it's you giving me 2 fish
[18:16] <ibanezmatt13> who would want to understand root 1
[18:16] <ibanezmatt13> -1 sorry
[18:16] <eroomde> but i can't visualise giving you i fish
[18:17] <eroomde> but that's still basic electronics engineering stuff
[18:17] <eroomde> so at some point you have to sort of embrace the formalism of your algebra
[18:17] <ibanezmatt13> what? root -1 is used in BASIC electronics?
[18:17] <eroomde> but i'm cool with that, in small doses
[18:17] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: yep :)
[18:17] <ibanezmatt13> where?
[18:17] <eroomde> everywhere
[18:17] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: Have you got the datasheet for the hammond enclosure you use ?
[18:17] <ibanezmatt13> now I am beginning to turn into a vegetable
[18:18] <eroomde> every time you try and model a capacitor, you're using imaginary numbers
[18:18] <ibanezmatt13> I don't see why
[18:18] <eroomde> a capacitor, to sine waves, looks like a resistor with imaginary resistance
[18:18] <eroomde> saying it like this makes it sound complicated
[18:18] <eroomde> but if i would to set up an experiment with an oscilloscope i coukld explain it to you
[18:18] <ibanezmatt13> hmm
[18:19] <ibanezmatt13> I really enjoy physics, and I suppose I like Maths, but it just looks a little overwhelming at times
[18:19] <ibanezmatt13> I love programming too
[18:19] <eroomde> basically sin and cos are just placeholder words for something to the power of imaginary numbers
[18:19] <ibanezmatt13> that's my next trig exam failed... :)
[18:20] <eroomde> euler's forumla
[18:20] <eroomde> one of the most beautiful results in physics
[18:20] <eroomde> but don't stare at the maths and say 'wtf'
[18:21] <eroomde> again, need a diagram really
[18:21] <eroomde> just trust me for now that there's almost always a good way of picturing the squiggles on the paper that'll make much more sense
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[18:21] <ibanezmatt13> Well, I'm still considering it. But to be honest, if I ever got stuck, sounds like you know what you're talking about :)
[18:21] <eroomde> yes, you can always ask here
[18:22] <eroomde> babs has a maths degree too
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[18:22] <eroomde> way more maths than I can do :)
[18:22] <eroomde> you can ask him stuff
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> I'm gonna have to go for a bit now. Will be on again at around 9. Thanks for all the advice :)
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[18:29] <ibanezmatt13> Back, got another 30 mins
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[18:31] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde, Here's the first further maths exam: http://filestore.aqa.org.uk/subjects/AQA-MFP1-QP-JUN12.PDF
[18:32] <ibanezmatt13> Q3 involves the famous... i
[18:34] <babs_> that paper demonstrates that after 20 years, ones knowledge of maths rapidly approaches the limit k=0, where k represents knowledge of maths
[18:35] <ibanezmatt13> So maths today isn't maths?
[18:35] <babs_> ibanezmatt13 - no, maths stays the same, just after 20 years without using it i would need to go and scrub up with my lecture notes
[18:36] <babs_> EDIT: they are all eminently doable
[18:36] <jcoxon> hmmm should aprs be WFM or NFM?
[18:36] <ibanezmatt13> oh I thought you meant any person's k=0. Even Q1?
[18:38] <ibanezmatt13> Is it bad that I don't know how to do Q1. I know that a root is where it touches the x axis a y=0 (even that is possibly wrong). Without factorising is there any other way to do it?
[18:40] <eroomde> bk
[18:41] <eroomde> you could use the quadratic formula
[18:41] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes
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[18:43] <ibanezmatt13> 7 + sqrt(29) all over 10 and 7 - sqrt(29) all over 10
[18:43] <eroomde> but note it's not asking you to find them
[18:43] <ibanezmatt13> add them
[18:43] <ibanezmatt13> and x time
[18:44] <eroomde> yes
[18:44] <eroomde> so let's say i had a toy quadratic equation in factorised form
[18:44] <eroomde> (x+2)(x+3)
[18:44] <eroomde> that has roots of -2 and -3
[18:44] <eroomde> happy with that?
[18:44] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[18:44] <eroomde> so expanding that out
[18:45] <eroomde> x^2 + 5x + 6 = 0
[18:45] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[18:45] <eroomde> now, how did i get the '5x' in the middle?
[18:45] <eroomde> what did it come from in the factorised form?
[18:45] <ibanezmatt13> adding 2x and 3x of course
[18:45] <eroomde> yep
[18:46] <eroomde> and where did the '6' come from?
[18:46] <ibanezmatt13> multiplying them
[18:46] <eroomde> yep
[18:46] <ibanezmatt13> That's all secured in my mind from doing it to death in school
[18:46] <eroomde> so the coefficient for the 'x' term comes frommadding the two roots (or rather the negative to the two roots)
[18:47] <eroomde> 2 and 3
[18:47] <Upu> Gadget-Mac http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/7788.pdf
[18:47] <ibanezmatt13> yep, that's secure :)
[18:47] <eroomde> and the term on the right comes from multiplying the two roots
[18:47] <eroomde> cool
[18:47] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: ta.
[18:47] <eroomde> so you've just answered 1 (a) there
[18:47] <eroomde> do you see?
[18:47] <ibanezmatt13> but on that paper, 1b looks awful
[18:47] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[18:47] <eroomde> nah
[18:48] <eroomde> you get two equations
[18:48] <ibanezmatt13> oh no not 1b
[18:48] <ibanezmatt13> 1c
[18:48] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: still can't decide on cased or not :(
[18:48] <Upu> well make your mind up or I'll sell it to someone else :)
[18:48] <ibanezmatt13> or is 1c just about substituting
[18:48] <eroomde> yes
[18:48] <eroomde> probably
[18:48] <eroomde> just substitute in and expand
[18:49] <ibanezmatt13> ok, that's easier than i thoguth
[18:49] <ibanezmatt13> thought
[18:49] <eroomde> and you might have to multiply the whole thing a few times until you get integer coefficients
[18:49] <eroomde> it usually is easier than you think
[18:49] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a go at it anyway
[18:49] <eroomde> that's both the chanllenge and the joy
[18:50] <eroomde> and if in doubt, just start writing down what you know on a piece of paper and diving in
[18:50] <eroomde> easier than trying to pre-do the entire thing in your head
[18:51] <eroomde> anyway, i am going off for a drink
[18:51] <eroomde> good luck, see you later
[18:51] <eroomde> and remember you're attempting a maths paper for which you haven;t yet learnt the material
[18:51] <eroomde> so anything you get is a result
[18:52] <ibanezmatt13> thanks eroomde. Have fun :)
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[19:04] <LeoBodnar> Evening all!
[19:05] <Upu> hey Leo
[19:06] <fsphil> jcoxon: any luck?
[19:06] <fsphil> I'm stuck at work, can't listen in
[19:06] <jcoxon> not on the last pass
[19:06] <jcoxon> i've made a few adjustments
[19:07] <mfa298> jcoxon: answering your question I think ARPS probably wants NFM.
[19:07] <jcoxon> yeah thats what i'm going for
[19:08] <jcoxon> also added a WIDE into the packet
[19:08] <jcoxon> after APRS
[19:08] <jcoxon> and ARISS
[19:08] <jcoxon> okay here we go
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[19:09] <mfa298> and reading the notes last night on sending to the ISS it looked like ideally you want it narrower than standard so you can stay in the pass band with doppler shift
[19:10] <mfa298> sorry for the slowish second line, irssi was being laggy.
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[19:11] <mfa298> hmmm, it's not a good sign when your shell says "You don't exist, go away!"
[19:12] <fsphil> lol
[19:12] <fsphil> who said that?
[19:12] <mfa298> I tried to ssh into another system and the shell responded with that.
[19:13] <mfa298> I think NIS had broken so the user info had gone
[19:13] <daveake> That's the Jason Bourne shell
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[19:15] <LeoBodnar> Anthony, I think I will need 1.8V Max-6 modules, do you have them in stock?
[19:15] <LeoBodnar> Changing my mind every second day.
[19:16] <jcoxon> fsphil, hmmm doesn't look like it worked
[19:16] <fsphil> this might need a better kind of antenna
[19:16] <griffonbot> Received email: Jens Pirnay "[UKHAS] Re: DL-FLDFIGI [Win] GPS Setvbuf error"
[19:16] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Toombes "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - HABE Lab - Friday 21st June - Worcester"
[19:16] <Upu> Yeah got quite a few Leo
[19:16] <LeoBodnar> OK, I will order some.
[19:16] <Upu> nps
[19:16] <Upu> btw
[19:17] <Upu> use coupon code UKHA
[19:17] <Upu> UKHAS
[19:17] <LeoBodnar> Cheers for that!
[19:17] <jcoxon> i'm wondering if its too quiet
[19:17] <jcoxon> even my local station doesn't get every decode
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[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> Guten Abend :)
[19:49] <fsphil> ja
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[19:53] <chrisstubbs> daveake, looks like your doing well on that pi contest! What do you win?
[19:53] <daveake> hah
[19:53] <chrisstubbs> more pi cams?
[19:53] <daveake> Yeah I think the other entries haven't told their FB friends to vote for them yet :p
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[19:54] <daveake> It's 1 of every new Pi device that Farnell add to their catalogue for the rest of the year
[19:54] <daveake> Which could be nothing :p
[19:54] <SpeedEvil> Oh.
[19:54] <SpeedEvil> I misread that as 'every device'
[19:54] <SpeedEvil> which could be a large parcel.
[19:55] <fsphil> keys to the company storage depot
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[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> damn missed him again
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> hi chrisstubbs
[19:57] <chrisstubbs> Evening Mr Lander
[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[19:58] <chrisstubbs> ok thanks!
[20:00] <chrisstubbs> the DSI board for the pi would be neat, but not much good for ballooning
[20:04] <fsphil> in car tracker
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[20:05] <daveake> that ^^
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> Just found out that I have to decide what A levels I'm doing for college in only 4 weeks! And still don't know :\
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, nice to hear :)
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> what i found out, the sanguino package for atmega644 does not support the arduino way of calling analogue pins, i.e. A0
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> you have to use analogRead(0)
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[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> I think I may have made the wires from the Pi to the stripboard a little bit short... Will not be easy getting it all set up in the box I'm afraid
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> Ah well, nothing like a good bodge :)
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> I am wondering if I can get my head around the GPS code
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> to move from EURUS code to something else that is maybe more stable
[20:21] <ibanezmatt13> what's the norm for operating a battery pack? I can't exactly solder wires on because they'd forever drain, yet I can't use clips because they'll come off
[20:21] <fsphil> writing a gps parser is a rite of passage :)
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> to get rid of GPS hanging
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> that there are no new readings for one line
[20:24] <eroomde> buy a lab power supply
[20:24] <eroomde> tonight
[20:24] <eroomde> so it arrives this week
[20:24] <eroomde> :)
[20:25] <ibanezmatt13> talking to me eroomde :)
[20:25] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, do you mean for testing or flying?
[20:25] <ibanezmatt13> flying
[20:25] <chrisstubbs> solder it
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> I guess he is talking to you
[20:25] <chrisstubbs> and just put the batteries in before flight
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> as I got a LPSU at uni
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, yeah :)
[20:26] <ibanezmatt13> ah :)
[20:26] <ibanezmatt13> never thought of that, thanks
[20:26] <chrisstubbs> then wrap the holder up in tape so they dont fall out or anything silly
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> I actually have two at my bench
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> one from 0 to 16 V and the other to 32 V
[20:26] <fsphil> stop tempting me :)
[20:26] <fsphil> I'm trying to save money atm :p
[20:27] <ibanezmatt13> Anybody know what the best way is to start designing a box. So far I have this https://www.dropbox.com/s/akuzgln1bjown2d/photo%20%286%29.JPG which is absolutely unbelivably shocking :)
[20:27] <chrisstubbs> insulate those bare stripped wires with some tapbe btw on the regulator
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> yay cardboard innovation!
[20:28] <ibanezmatt13> slightly easier to look at https://www.dropbox.com/s/a03lgwgbxgcl3sn/photo%20%287%29.JPG
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> it even says RASPBERRY on the side!
[20:28] <ibanezmatt13> exactly!
[20:28] <ibanezmatt13> well spotted
[20:28] <ibanezmatt13> I didn't think anybody would get that
[20:29] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, insulate those bare stripped wires with some tape btw on the regulator
[20:29] Nick change: Laurenceb_ -> manchild
[20:29] <ibanezmatt13> normal tape?
[20:29] <chrisstubbs> as long as it dosent conduct electricity
[20:29] <ibanezmatt13> I'm pretty sure it doesn't :)
[20:31] <ibanezmatt13> But seriously, my ability to design things is tantamount to a duck's ability to write
[20:33] <ibanezmatt13> I looked at my ASDA cool cups box, wondering deeply how the heck I was going to put compartments into my box. Shortly after, the box found itself in the bin
[20:34] <fsphil> I don't so much design, as just cut random blocks of polystyrene and see if everything fits into it
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[20:36] <ibanezmatt13> that will probably be my way of doing it too. I was just wondering what the principle is for putting certain things into compartments, and of course free space and heat dissipation. And then the risk of the Pi melting the foam. All of these things I don't really know what to do about
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[20:37] <amp1> exit
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[20:38] <fsphil> hmm
[20:38] <fsphil> peace in our time
[20:38] Action: fsphil waits patiently
[20:40] <ibanezmatt13> How do you get the * fsphil bit to work?
[20:41] <nigelvh> /me
[20:41] Action: nigelvh uses /me to emote stuff.
[20:42] Action: ibanezmatt13 err
[20:42] <ibanezmatt13> ooh
[20:42] <ibanezmatt13> wow
[20:42] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[20:42] Action: nigelvh nods
[20:43] Action: ibanezmatt13 nods too
[20:43] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, http://bit.ly/18XqyZD Not sure If i will stick with that design though, it seems very bulky. Easy to cut into compartments using layers though
[20:44] <ibanezmatt13> thanks chrisstubbs, It looks worth a good look :)
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> that one of yours?
[20:45] <chrisstubbs> Yeah uses an eyetoy camera
[20:46] <ibanezmatt13> what components are you using. Is that a Pi Cam on the side?
[20:46] <chrisstubbs> the resolution is pants, trying to justify paying for the balloon and gas to launch it :P
[20:47] <ibanezmatt13> keep an eye on those jumper cables
[20:48] <chrisstubbs> USB eyetoy cam, a USB GPS board I made, ntx2, the same regulator as you, and the cannon camera running CHDK. Will probably throw in one of my CHEAPO boards too as backup (if i can ever get them to work)
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[20:49] <ibanezmatt13> how about the coax cable?
[20:50] <chrisstubbs> 1/4 wave coax antenna with an SMA connector to the ntx2
[20:50] <chrisstubbs> need to remake it though
[20:50] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[20:50] <ibanezmatt13> I'd love to see it when it's done
[20:50] <ibanezmatt13> SSDV I guess?
[20:50] <chrisstubbs> Will probably be a couple of months, I want to play about with picos first :)
[20:50] <chrisstubbs> thats the plan
[20:51] <ibanezmatt13> sounds good
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[20:55] <ibanezmatt13> so what's the crack with having compartments then? really necesary?
[20:55] <chrisstubbs> It will probably give better insulation
[20:55] <chrisstubbs> and stop stuff rattling about in the box and possibly breaking
[20:56] <ibanezmatt13> are you not using heatsinks? I heard that the Pi can melt foam
[20:56] <ibanezmatt13> that makes sense
[20:56] <chrisstubbs> Im not using the pi cam
[20:56] <ibanezmatt13> I meant for the Pi
[20:57] <chrisstubbs> oh sorry misread can for cam
[20:57] <chrisstubbs> I guess we will find out ;)
[20:57] <ibanezmatt13> :) famous last words
[20:57] <manchild> http://etheses.nottingham.ac.uk/503/
[20:57] <manchild> ^nomnative determinism
[20:59] <ibanezmatt13> that's probably the most complicated thing I've ever looked at.
[20:59] <ibanezmatt13> Besides understanding the 4-d hypercube :)
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[21:09] <ibanezmatt13> look at those steam rollers https://www.dropbox.com/lightbox/home/TGB/Edited%20Photos
[21:10] <ibanezmatt13> sorry, I'm supposed to be talking to my Dad
[21:10] <ibanezmatt13> oops
[21:10] <ibanezmatt13> Confused the Skype window
[21:14] <jcoxon> ping daveake
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> in mönchengladbach there was a fire in a gas company
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> and tonight another gas supplier is on fire
[21:15] <daveake> pong
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[21:19] <ibanezmatt13> really tired now. Night all :)
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon, once again, the EURUS code on github did not fly, right?
[21:19] <jcoxon> well it flew on eurus1
[21:20] <fsphil> aprs code flew on a pava flight too
[21:20] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, if you worry then you should find over code
[21:20] <jcoxon> other*
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> no as I said that code flew on OERNEN-II and it worked OK :)
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[21:37] <jcoxon> fsphil, i think i might need to upgrade my radio
[21:37] <Willdude123> Hi.
[21:37] <jcoxon> for this iss project
[21:37] <Willdude123> Did someone say ISS?
[21:37] <Willdude123> Oh are you planning on txing to it?
[21:38] <fsphil> is there such a thing as a little amp, maybe 2 watts to 10 watts?
[21:38] <Willdude123> What happens on the ISS when loads of people are trying to contact them?
[21:39] <fsphil> on packet, either the loudest gets through or none
[21:40] <fsphil> a colinear might not be the best kind of antenna to use, with its high gain
[21:41] <nigelvh> FM uses what's known as a descriminator, which latches onto the strongest signal. If there are several of near the same level, then it can't latch well and you'll get garbled noise.
[21:42] <Willdude123> Is high gain bad?
[21:42] <fsphil> I suppose the same is true of voice comms on the ISS too
[21:42] <nigelvh> Yes
[21:42] <fsphil> on a colinear, high gain means a narrow flatter signal
[21:42] <Willdude123> What is txed and rxed over packed radio.
[21:42] <fsphil> which is great for signals near the horizon
[21:42] <fsphil> but not above it
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> hi nigelvh
[21:42] <fsphil> which is kinda the opposite you want for the iSS
[21:43] <nigelvh> Any time you have gain you have a more directional signal. A colinear does this in a flattened donut shape.
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon, just wanted to let you know it's flight tested at last :)
[21:43] <fsphil> most people use packet for APRS, just position reports
[21:43] <fsphil> but it could be anything
[21:43] <fsphil> I've done IRC over packet
[21:43] <fsphil> and http
[21:44] <Willdude123> How fast?
[21:44] <nigelvh> Slow
[21:44] <fsphil> not very
[21:44] <fsphil> 1200 baud
[21:44] <fsphil> irc worked quite well
[21:44] <jcoxon> fsphil, well we could use a uv-5r
[21:44] <jcoxon> thats 4W
[21:45] <jcoxon> 40 on ebay
[21:45] <Willdude123> So you set up something that takes packet data and sends it over http?
[21:46] <Willdude123> If and when I get a licence, I am so doing that.
[21:46] <fsphil> linux supports IP over packet
[21:46] <fsphil> just a matter of running apache
[21:46] <fsphil> or any other http server
[21:46] <fsphil> jcoxon: probably better even with a more appropriate antenna
[21:47] <jcoxon> what antenna you thinking?
[21:47] <jcoxon> needs to be hab able
[21:47] <fsphil> http://www.kr1st.com/Images/ISS_car.jpg
[21:47] <fsphil> sans car
[21:47] <jcoxon> cross dipole?
[21:47] <Willdude123> Can it only connect to specific servers that you set up then?
[21:47] <mfa298> I tried using a packet bbs once when I was first licensed. Took several minutes to download a small text file.
[21:47] <fsphil> I knew it had a name, yep cross dipole
[21:48] <Willdude123> Are you trying to tx voice to the iss
[21:48] <jcoxon> fsphil, i shall build
[21:48] <fsphil> anything really Willdude123. but it has to be compatiable with the license
[21:48] <jcoxon> at some point
[21:48] <fsphil> like it can't be encrypted (no https or ssh)
[21:48] <fsphil> or commercial
[21:49] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "[UKHAS] UKHAS Conference 7th September 2013"
[21:49] <jcoxon> oh yes...
[21:49] <fsphil> lol
[21:49] <fsphil> was gonna say, you multitasking?
[21:49] <mfa298> there's also rules about non licensed traffic over radio etc. so the actual use of ip over packet is limited.
[21:49] <Willdude123> I don't think I can go to that.
[21:49] <fsphil> haha, -0.0050
[21:50] <fsphil> appropriate
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon, would you mind if I take the code as a base to try to tweak it?
[21:50] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, of course, its on there for a reason
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:52] <Willdude123> Why is that appropriate?
[21:52] <Willdude123> I don't think I'll be able to come.
[21:52] <Willdude123> I also doubt my grandfather will want to,
[21:52] <Willdude123> Well, I'll be able to.
[21:53] <Willdude123> But my parents probably won't let me,
[21:53] <fsphil> many payloads have had a bug, that going near or crossing the meridian (0 degrees longitude) triggered
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[21:53] <Willdude123> Ah right.
[21:53] <fsphil> either a padding error or not handling negative 0 fractions
[21:53] <fsphil> like -0.123 appearing as 0.123
[21:53] <Willdude123> I'm slightly upset, I'd quite like to go to that, but nvm.
[21:54] <Willdude123> Can you stream it?
[21:54] <fsphil> in theory
[21:54] <fsphil> we always try
[21:54] <fsphil> but it didn't work so well last year
[21:54] <chrisstubbs> you have ages to figure out a way to get there
[21:54] <fsphil> I don't think bandwidth will be a problem this year
[21:54] <chrisstubbs> Talks look good though, looking forward to it :)
[21:54] <fsphil> could put a couple of RPi's with cameras about the room :)
[21:54] <nigelvh> All my flights are a -120ish of the meridian, so I don't ever worry about crossing it.
[21:55] <Willdude123> Sneaking out isn't an option Chris.
[21:55] <fsphil> I'm at -6 and I still managed to cross it
[21:55] <fsphil> my first flight didn't, thankfully -- it had both meridian bugs
[21:56] <nigelvh> That's part of why I don't share much of my code, because it's lazy and probably bad for other people to use.
[21:56] <nigelvh> I'm pretty certain my code wouldn't handle the meridian well.
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[21:56] <jcoxon> fsphil, you going to come this year?
[21:56] <fsphil> hoping to jcoxon
[21:56] <jcoxon> excellent
[21:57] Action: daveake fakes a student card
[21:57] <fsphil> I'm a student of life?
[21:57] <daveake> :)
[21:57] <nigelvh> I'm a student of NotMadeUpUniversity
[21:57] <fsphil> ah, ProfessorWhatsHisName lectures there
[21:57] <eroomde> i thing gps might be more of a workshop
[21:57] <nigelvh> Not that it matters. I'll be on my honeymoon in New Zealand when the conference is going on.
[21:58] <eroomde> i can't do it in 30 minutes :)
[21:58] <fsphil> oooh nice
[21:58] <Willdude123> I'm actually a student.
[21:58] <nigelvh> Perhaps next year timing and monies will allow me to visit for the conf.
[21:58] <fsphil> I'd love to do a launch when I'm over there this time
[21:59] <fsphil> though everyone might be too busy/tired
[21:59] <Willdude123> I'd be willing to sell my identity to someone,.
[21:59] <S_Mark> I think Stratodean would like to come to the conference!
[21:59] <Willdude123> If I am not allowed to or can't come, I'll sell my status as a student for £14
[21:59] <Upu> would be great to see you there
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[21:59] <Upu> both coming Mark ?
[22:00] <fsphil> yep it's good fun
[22:00] Action: Upu pokes Willdude123 not allowed :)
[22:00] <S_Mark> yep should be I think
[22:00] <Upu> super
[22:00] <Willdude123> Doh.
[22:00] <Willdude123> I'll just have to come.
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> why I am thinking about melanie thornton's plane crash right now?
[22:00] <Upu> because you're a little odd Lunar ?
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[22:01] <fsphil> too much caffine?
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> at least I hope Air Berlin has pilots who know where to fly to
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[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> or so
[22:01] <Upu> are you coming along ?
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> thinking about it
[22:01] <Upu> super
[22:01] <Willdude123> Well. I need to convince my parents that you aren't all paedophiles first,
[22:01] <S_Mark> wow
[22:01] <S_Mark> How old are you Willdude123??
[22:01] <fsphil> only on weekends. oh wait
[22:01] <Willdude123> 12
[22:01] <S_Mark> right ok
[22:02] <Upu> http://www.0-60mag.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/double-facepalm.gif
[22:02] <Willdude123> Why the facepalm Upu?
[22:02] <fsphil> I've seen that picture a few times but I don't remember seeing it in the show
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[22:03] <Upu> you would need to bring a parent or guardian Willdude123
[22:03] <Willdude123> Of course.
[22:03] <daveake> but not a 70's TV personality
[22:03] <Willdude123> To grandads count?
[22:03] <Willdude123> Hah
[22:04] <Willdude123> *do
[22:04] <fsphil> lol
[22:04] <Upu> yep he's welcome to come along
[22:04] <Willdude123> My parents will never come with me and my grandad is the only one in my family who is slightly interested.
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:05] <Willdude123> But then I'll feel guilty.
[22:05] <Upu> why ?
[22:06] <Willdude123> Well, because I don't really want to make him take me to london, that said, it might be interesting for him.
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[22:08] <Willdude123> I guess he took me to the nadars rally and found that very interesting.
[22:08] <daveake> That's probably all the WW2 crap that people were trying to flog
[22:08] <daveake> Did you get an antenna?
[22:09] <daveake> A few Watson W-50s there - ideal
[22:09] <Willdude123> Upu, is there an OAP discount? ;-)
[22:09] <Willdude123> No
[22:09] <Willdude123> Should havel
[22:09] <Willdude123> *have
[22:09] <daveake> Should have
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[22:09] <Upu> well if he's bringing you £15
[22:09] <Upu> http://imgur.com/a/5M1YA
[22:09] <daveake> At least 1 s/h one there
[22:09] <Upu> thats where we are going
[22:10] <Willdude123> Ah right then, that is worth £45
[22:10] <Upu> The dinner is costing over £500 :)
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> wb S_Mark_
[22:10] <mfa298> I missed those antennas, although I wasn't really looking for them
[22:10] <eroomde> looks a bit 60s and concrete Upu
[22:10] <eroomde> am dissapointed
[22:10] <Upu> lol
[22:10] <Willdude123> I was lent a 60-900 mhz yaesu receiver.
[22:11] <Willdude123> Bought a bit of wire.
[22:11] <Upu> it will have to do Ed
[22:11] <chrisstubbs> We can probably knock a venue up out of foam
[22:11] <Willdude123> Wait there's lunch???
[22:11] <Upu> yes included
[22:11] <Willdude123> Where?? :-)
[22:11] <Upu> at the venue
[22:11] <eroomde> well, i guess i'll get over it
[22:11] <Willdude123> Heh
[22:12] <Willdude123> What food?
[22:12] <eroomde> but srsly it's a spectaclar venue
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[22:12] <Willdude123> Dave how much were they there?
[22:13] <Upu> "Selection of Generously filled breads, rolls, wraps and baguettes (1.5 rounds per person) kettle chips, seasonal fruit skewers, fruit juice coffee and tea"
[22:13] <Willdude123> I'll ask my parents about roof mounting,
[22:13] <daveake> Anything s/h probably you just offer and haggle
[22:13] <cuddykid> ah, shame the conf is a week after I leave london
[22:13] <eroomde> coffee
[22:13] <Willdude123> 1.5 rounds per person, meaning?
[22:13] <cuddykid> having been down there for 10 weeks
[22:13] <Willdude123> S/h?
[22:13] <mfa298> If there's a price label ask if they'll acept something lower
[22:13] <daveake> Plenty enough kit there for tracking ... W-50s, AOR AR8000, Yupi MVT7100 etc
[22:14] <eroomde> second home
[22:14] <Upu> night all
[22:14] <daveake> second/hand
[22:14] <daveake> nn U
[22:14] <cuddykid> Upu: how many tickets this yr?
[22:14] <daveake> capacity 100
[22:14] <Willdude123> There another rally soon daveake, I wanna w-59
[22:14] <cuddykid> not too bad
[22:14] <Upu> we are priced for 50 but can take up to 100
[22:14] <Willdude123> *w-50
[22:14] <Upu> so come along
[22:14] <cuddykid> yeah, hope it
[22:14] <cuddykid> *to
[22:14] <Upu> bring Geraldine seen as she pays for everything :)
[22:15] <cuddykid> hahah
[22:15] <Willdude123> I hope to be able to Upu.
[22:15] <Willdude123> *seeing
[22:15] <mfa298> Willdude123: list of rallies here: http://rsgb.org/events/rsgb-events-site/rallies-summary-for-the-year/
[22:16] <chrisstubbs> Dont think I have ever remembered my habsupplies password before
[22:16] <mfa298> you'll have to work out what's relativly close to you
[22:16] <Willdude123> Damn, there arent many
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[22:17] <Willdude123> I'll have to talk to my parents about mounting one on the roof,
[22:17] <Willdude123> Will be extremely difficult.
[22:18] <mfa298> there's one most weeks but it depends how far you want to travel
[22:18] <Willdude123> daveake, IIRC you have an x 50 in your garden, how do you acheive LOS given the x 50's size.
[22:18] <Willdude123> ?
[22:18] <daveake> W-300
[22:18] <daveake> on a 10m telescopic pole
[22:19] <daveake> As always, height matters
[22:19] <Willdude123> Ah right
[22:20] <Willdude123> Anywhere I can get a cheap w-50?
[22:20] <daveake> Yes, 2 days ago ....
[22:22] <mfa298> Willdude123: next one that should be relativly close to you is the mcmichael rally. I'm not sure what its like though as I've not been to it before
[22:22] <mfa298> thats in about a months time
[22:22] <Willdude123> Urgh
[22:22] <Willdude123> But I didn't know I wanted one then.
[22:23] <Willdude123> Not sure it'd fit in the car,
[22:24] <mfa298> should do. I get a comet gp15 into my fairly small car
[22:24] <mfa298> the gp15 is about 2m long
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[23:22] <SpeedEvil> I wonder what boeing knows about me that I don't.
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> Just got a targeted ad for the boeing 787
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> I wasn't thinking of buying one.
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> Amusingly - on fmylife.com
[23:27] <nigelvh> Quick buy a lotto ticket!
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[00:00] --- Wed Jun 19 2013