highaltitude.log.20130617

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[02:45] <heathkid> hello?
[02:48] <heathkid> wish I hadn't missed the antenna conversation... <sigh>
[02:59] <nigelvh> Evening
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[04:58] <forrestv> anyone know what "mas" means in the context of GNSS system specifications?
[04:59] <forrestv> err, it's a unit
[05:02] <forrestv> my best guess right now is milliarcsecond
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[06:22] <eroomde> forrestv: do you have a link to where it is mentioned?
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[06:23] <forrestv> eroomde, near the bottom of http://www.navipedia.net/index.php/GLONASS_Satellite_Coordinates_Computation
[06:23] <forrestv> it's definitely mas
[06:23] <forrestv> err, milliarcseconds :P
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[06:24] <eroomde> oh right
[06:25] <eroomde> this is actually doing the proper position solving
[06:25] <eroomde> didn;t think it was a normal gps receiver unit
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[07:56] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning :)
[07:57] <fsphil> at least it is somewhere
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[08:04] <ibanezmatt13> Nah, not good here at all
[08:05] <ibanezmatt13> Am I ok to upload data to spacenear.us/tracker now or are there balloon launches?
[08:07] <fsphil> who's NAKI?
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[08:08] <ibanezmatt13> not sure?
[08:09] <ibanezmatt13> no need for '?'
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[08:16] <ibanezmatt13> morning daveake
[08:16] <daveake> morning
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[08:18] <ibanezmatt13> Currently testing my equipment; is it ok to upload to spacenear.us/tracker this morning daveake?
[08:18] <daveake> ofc. So long as there's no active flight no-one cares.
[08:18] <ibanezmatt13> brilliant, thanks
[08:19] <daveake> So you've finished your vero circuit?
[08:19] <ibanezmatt13> Yes, I'll take some pics later. It's excellent
[08:19] <ibanezmatt13> Everything's soldered
[08:19] <daveake> Problems gone?
[08:19] <ibanezmatt13> Completely gone, no fluctuations, nothing :)
[08:19] <daveake> Ah good. Breadboard strikes again then. I hate that stuff.
[08:19] <ibanezmatt13> As do I
[08:20] <ibanezmatt13> My Dad and I were talking about filling balloons last night
[08:20] <ibanezmatt13> Is it a complicated process?
[08:20] <ibanezmatt13> For a first time anyway?
[08:21] <daveake> Not complicated no. Instructions on the wiki. Main thing is to get everything else ready first (tracker running and online, car on the map too, payload tied to chute and chute line ready to attach to balloon)
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[08:22] <ibanezmatt13> is the attaching process difficult?
[08:22] <daveake> Suggest you make a checklist, with everything in the right sequence, and find someone whose sole job is tomake sure you follow the list :)
[08:23] <ibanezmatt13> I can do that, good idea
[08:23] <daveake> Not difficult. Just take it slowly.
[08:23] <daveake> If someone else who has done it before can be there, that will reduce the stress somewhat
[08:23] <ibanezmatt13> That would be a massive help.
[08:24] <ibanezmatt13> Also, my Dad wants the Pi Cam to record non-stop 1080p video for our first one. This means that we can't take pictures to do SSDV.
[08:24] <daveake> That's fine. Less to go wrong that way :)
[08:24] <ibanezmatt13> Suppose so, it's just pretty cool watching your image build as it transmits across the radio link
[08:24] <daveake> it is
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13> Now that it's all on vero, I have just recieved 100 packets and lost 0, that's a first
[08:25] <fsphil> how many fixes?
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13> it says 60
[08:25] <daveake> Cool. All down to a dodgy connection then (too much resistance somewhere)
[08:25] <fsphil> that's still a bit high
[08:25] <daveake> that is
[08:26] <ibanezmatt13> My next stage is to solder this end launch connector onto the board, that should arrive soon
[08:26] <daveake> later .. off to work
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[08:27] <Babs_> ibanezmatt13 - I did a big checklist for my last launch. Clearly every launch has specific equipment and needs a specific checklist, but if you would find it useful to tick off items that you might think about needing, and procedures you might think about following no problem, just pm me
[08:28] <ibanezmatt13> thanks Babs, I don't know how pmming people works on here :\
[08:29] <mfa298> I think there's a sample checklist on the wiki as well.
[08:29] <mfa298> make sure you know how to tie some good/ strong knots. (rather than granny knots)
[08:29] <mck1117> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:pre_launch_checklist?s[]=checklist
[08:29] <ibanezmatt13> That's one thing we really cannot do: knots...
[08:30] <ibanezmatt13> That's why it'd be a massive help if we could have a little assistance for our first launch
[08:30] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:knots
[08:30] <fsphil> the wiki has *everything*
[08:30] <ibanezmatt13> but me and knots don't get along...
[08:30] <ibanezmatt13> and I imagine my Dad's the same :)
[08:31] <fsphil> even I managed them
[08:31] <UpuWork> know the Alpine buttefly and you're set
[08:31] <fsphil> a few goes and you'll be fine
[08:31] <ibanezmatt13> I'll probably practise on some material first
[08:32] <Babs_> I hot adhesive any knots which I can do before going out in the field, and then duct tape them with a little bit of tape
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[08:32] <Babs_> nothing like a bit of knot based paranoia
[08:32] <ibanezmatt13> Annoyingly, I've only been running my tracker for half an hour and the input voltage to the reg has gone from 6.7v to 2.8v
[08:32] <ibanezmatt13> So that's why the GPS wasn't working just then
[08:33] <mfa298> lx tape is good for securing the ends of knots as well. but you need a good knot to hold first.
[08:33] <mfa298> what battery are you running from ?
[08:33] <ibanezmatt13> I'd better practise the knots. I was just using 6 Ni-MH AA's.
[08:33] <ibanezmatt13> Not ideal but at least I can re use them
[08:34] <ibanezmatt13> Only for testing btw
[08:34] <eroomde> the best knot is not a knot
[08:34] <eroomde> the 2nd best knot is also not a knot but is instead a chinese finger joint
[08:34] <eroomde> the thirst best knot is a figure of 8
[08:34] <eroomde> the remaining knots are poo or very application specific
[08:35] <eroomde> thirst best - fruedian slip
[08:35] <ibanezmatt13> interesting
[08:35] <eroomde> but anyway, if you have tubular vs braid, eg most kevlar lines, you definitely should use chinese finger joints instead of knots
[08:35] <fsphil> the thirst always wins
[08:35] <eroomde> they have about >90% the yeild stress of the thing they're made from
[08:35] <ibanezmatt13> I assume I'll be using braided nylon chord?
[08:35] <eroomde> most knots are more like 60-70%
[08:36] <mfa298> figure of eight (and it's variations are definetly the place to start. You can do most of what you want with them (others might be more ideal but as eroomde said they're more specialist)
[08:37] <ibanezmatt13> If these Ni-MH batteries operate at 1.2v, what's a safe minimum voltage to operate them at before charging?
[08:37] <eroomde> just learn to tie a figure of 8 around a prexisting loop
[08:37] <ibanezmatt13> will do, thanks
[08:38] <Babs_> eroomde - have you seen this? It's almost as if they are going for the ukhas x-prize you put up - although there is a bit of twisting http://hackaday.com/2012/10/02/weather-balloon-payload-that-almost-guides-itself-back-to-you/
[08:38] <eroomde> iirc about 0.9v
[08:38] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[08:38] <eroomde> i think i saw it
[08:38] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: 1V/cell is typical.
[08:38] <eroomde> but it was never completed so meh
[08:39] <eroomde> the hard part is making the hardware work properly
[08:39] <eroomde> rather than just making the hardware
[08:39] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: The risk is that if the cells are matched to within 10%, then if you discharge the pack to 5% charge, one cell will be at -5%
[08:39] <SpeedEvil> - overcharged
[08:39] <SpeedEvil> reverse charged even
[08:39] <mfa298> This is a decent resource for the various types of figure of 8 http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/F8Knots.htm although don't worry about the in-line variation.
[08:39] <SpeedEvil> For cell packs with many cells, that start out reasonably matched - 1v/cell is reasonable
[08:40] <SpeedEvil> For fewer cells, you can reduce the voltage a bit.
[08:41] <ibanezmatt13> I'm a little confused here. My battery pack is outputing over 5v, but coming into the reg it's only 3.3v, which gives 2.8v output. Something must be resisting it before it gets to the reg but there's only wires...
[08:42] <SpeedEvil> Have you got one battery backwards?
[08:42] <ibanezmatt13> No, they're all the right way
[08:42] <SpeedEvil> Also, at high currents, some battery packs are _really_ bad
[08:42] <SpeedEvil> the wires can be stainless steel springs.
[08:42] <ibanezmatt13> If it's outputing 5v, surely it should have 5v going into the reg
[08:42] <SpeedEvil> This can add up to 20cm or more of what is basically resistance wire.
[08:42] <SpeedEvil> Is this with no load?
[08:43] <ibanezmatt13> It's got a load
[08:43] <ibanezmatt13> Well
[08:43] <ibanezmatt13> The battery outputs 5v, but only 3.3v goes into the reg, making the output sub-sufficient
[08:43] <SpeedEvil> Measure voltages all over.
[08:43] <SpeedEvil> Measure at the actual terminals of the battery pack
[08:43] <SpeedEvil> Now, measure at the other ends of the wires, ...
[08:44] <mck1117> and at input/output of regulator
[08:44] <eroomde> what do you mean only 3.3v goes into the reg?
[08:44] <UpuWork> looks interesting Babs_ but I think that would fall foul of the UAV regulations
[08:44] <eroomde> i'm not so sure about that
[08:44] <eroomde> it's in the greyest of grey areas
[08:45] <ibanezmatt13> ok, when the battery is connected to the reg, it outputs only 3.3v when I put the meter across it, if it's on its own, it outputs over 5v
[08:45] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: that then implies, as speedevil says, that the barry pack is really suffering under the load you're trying to pull from it
[08:45] <ibanezmatt13> that's unusual as it was working earlier
[08:46] <eroomde> discharged?
[08:46] <mikestir> short circuit somewhere?
[08:46] <ibanezmatt13> well, voltage across each cell says otherwise
[08:46] <SpeedEvil> Either the batteries are dropping in voltage - or the holder is high resistance - or there is a bit of oxide in there.
[08:46] <eroomde> usually if a cell's voltage collapses under load it's because it is discharged
[08:46] <Babs_> UpuWork - yes, I agree, especially as not pre-deployed. I guess the question is at what point a pre-deployed parachute with two servo arms isn't essentially equivalent to a pre-deployed parachute with two string attached.
[08:46] <SpeedEvil> Try rotating the cells (on their axes) in the holder
[08:47] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, but I suppose they could do with a charge too
[08:47] <SpeedEvil> How many cells are there?
[08:47] <eroomde> Babs_: this is my thinking too
[08:47] <eroomde> under the UAV rules, HAB is illegal
[08:47] <eroomde> but HAB is legal because we have an exemption to take payloads up under balloon and drop them back through controlled airspace under a parachute
[08:48] <ibanezmatt13> SpeedEvil: 6
[08:48] <SpeedEvil> 6 cells - 5V is flat
[08:48] <eroomde> 5V is too low for 6 NiMH cells!!!
[08:48] <eroomde> 1.2*6 = 7.2
[08:48] <eroomde> that's what it should be
[08:48] <SpeedEvil> See above - 1V/cell is a reasonable guideline.
[08:48] <SpeedEvil> At 3.3V - you have reverse charged one or more cells that may have permenantly damaged them.
[08:48] <ibanezmatt13> oh right, well that makes sense
[08:49] <eroomde> i said that 0.9V per cells i basically discharged, 0.9*6 = 5.4 V
[08:49] <eroomde> that yours is at 5V should be enough to tell you that it's really thoroughly dead
[08:49] <eroomde> charging time :)
[08:49] <ibanezmatt13> that's if they're not completely screwed :) Thankfully I have some ore
[08:49] <ibanezmatt13> more*
[08:49] <Babs_> It would be good to test it by building one with random servo arm movements (no use wasting time on a guidance system if it ultimately going to be disallowed), noting that the string is attached to a servo and putting an application in to see what happens
[08:49] <Babs_> in fact, one could just put the application in and see what happens
[08:50] <eroomde> i'm not sure that the law particularly would differentiate between crap guidance and guidance
[08:50] <SpeedEvil> It's not guidance if it's random.
[08:50] <eroomde> i don;t even think you would have to put in an application
[08:50] <Babs_> as long as it is explicit in there and the full facts are presented I can't see the downside
[08:51] <ibanezmatt13> oh dear, some cells are down to 0.89v :\
[08:51] <eroomde> asking civil servants to make a call on technicalities is always a bad idea
[08:51] <eroomde> much easier to say no
[08:51] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: just give it a charge
[08:52] <eroomde> they can take a little abuse
[08:52] <eroomde> but not a lot of abuse
[08:52] <eroomde> so just keep an eye on the pack voltage
[08:52] <eroomde> this is why two multimeters are useful
[08:52] <eroomde> you can have one just set up to measure pack voltage
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[08:52] <eroomde> recharge at 6V
[08:52] <Babs_> there is no upside to the CAA approving anything out of the ordinary
[08:52] <Babs_> that is why the private sector is best
[08:53] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: ok, how do I know when they've recharged? Do I just have to test them with DMM?
[08:53] <Babs_> they can take a commercial view on everything, rather than just a technical view
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[08:53] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: hopefully your chrger will do it automatically
[08:53] <ibanezmatt13> hopefully
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[08:54] <Brian__> good mornig for suffolk uk
[08:54] <fsphil> I think I overcharged a battery last week, came out of the (suppose to be automatic) charger really hot
[08:54] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: a lab power supply would be such a good purchase :)
[08:54] <ibanezmatt13> I'd better keep an eye on it
[08:54] <eroomde> having to fight stupid battles is a recipe for disaster
[08:54] <ibanezmatt13> It really would
[08:54] <eroomde> you want to fight the hab stuff
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[08:55] <eroomde> being able to power your experiment should not be a battle you should be fighting.
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> Are there any decent affordable ones?
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[08:55] <fsphil> I got a cheap one, it self destructed after a year
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> that's not great
[08:55] <fsphil> not ideal
[08:56] <ibanezmatt13> So I need a good one that's not ridiculously expensive
[08:56] <fsphil> it might be possible to fix it, but that's above my level
[08:56] <eroomde> old 2nd hand decent ones are the answer
[08:56] <eroomde> the chiese shit can be terrible
[08:56] <fsphil> yea, this was chinese
[08:57] <eroomde> they don;t evenhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/farnell-power-supply-/140997868707?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item20d420bca3
[08:57] <fsphil> it puts out a random voltage now
[08:57] <eroomde> ignore the 'they do't'
[08:57] <eroomde> don't*
[08:57] <mikestir> I've got a (chinese) one from CPC which is ok. was about £80 IIRC. digital, quite accurate metering.
[08:57] <UpuWork> I have the single output version of that eroomde
[08:57] <eroomde> the old farnell ones are good
[08:57] <fsphil> dials!
[08:57] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: is that a good one?
[08:57] <eroomde> they made them well
[08:58] <eroomde> yep
[08:58] <UpuWork> my pots are worn but in fairness it must be 30 years old
[08:58] <ibanezmatt13> looks good
[08:58] <eroomde> you *might* want something with a bit more current capacity
[08:58] <eroomde> not sure
[08:58] <eroomde> you can answer that question
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> err, what's the current capacity on that one?
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> I wouldn't ever be drawing more than 2A I should think. Or not in the near future anyway
[08:59] <fsphil> says right there
[08:59] <eroomde> says in the description
[09:00] <eroomde> 2x 0-30V, 1A
[09:00] <eroomde> if you needed more than 1A then you could put the two independant supplies in parallel
[09:00] <eroomde> and get 2A
[09:00] <eroomde> butyou'd have to set the voltages the same
[09:00] <eroomde> 2 supplies are really useful
[09:00] <eroomde> because you can generate + and - voltages from them
[09:00] <eroomde> eg often for analog electronics the sensors work on +/- 10V
[09:01] <ibanezmatt13> I'm probably better getting a decent second hand one which can handle up to 2A
[09:01] <eroomde> so you often want say +/- 15V supplies
[09:01] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: yes. for power supplies, which are very analoge anyway, the older ones are usually designed by masters
[09:01] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks]
[09:01] <eroomde> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FARNELL-LT-30-2-LT30-2-2-X-30V-2AMP-STABILISED-BENCH-PSU-POWER-SUPPLY-USED/330938132033?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222005%26algo%3DSIC.NUQ%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D15866%26meid%3D8436853065115471654%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D7588%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D140997868707%26
[09:01] <eroomde> 2A
[09:01] <eroomde> that would be a great unit
[09:01] <ibanezmatt13> shame it doesn't work
[09:02] <ibanezmatt13> but I'll look for somethng like that
[09:02] <eroomde> hmm but might be broken, check description
[09:02] <eroomde> it might be that it's just set to amperes and so won;t show anything if you turn the nob but it's not connected
[09:02] <eroomde> it's probably fiable anyway - old PSUs are very fixable
[09:02] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I suppose I could get it fixed if it didn't work
[09:05] Action: Laurenceb_ tends to use usb to power everything
[09:06] <HixWork> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?CMP=comingsoon_email&sku=2251946
[09:06] <HixWork> apparently good, though not in stock, as per usual
[09:06] <eroomde> if it's good and has decent reviews then yep perhaps go for it
[09:07] <Brian__> hi everyone complete newbie here, i'm interested in sending a payload up containing a raspberry pi and some cameras and record temperatures etc that side I can do but I know little or nothing about actually getting it up there. I've seen there's some people that launch from suffolk and cambridge which is relatively close to me. How do I work out what balloon size i need for a given payload size?
[09:07] <SpeedEvil> Brian__: where are you?
[09:07] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[09:07] <SpeedEvil> doh
[09:07] <SpeedEvil> nvm
[09:08] <Brian__> suffolk
[09:08] <Brian__> ha
[09:08] <eroomde> why do you want to use a Pi?
[09:08] <SpeedEvil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data
[09:08] <Brian__> as I know how to program it and use it to collect data, thanks for the link
[09:10] <ibanezmatt13> batteries charged, 1.29v per cell
[09:10] <ibanezmatt13> more than I thought
[09:10] <fsphil> that was quick
[09:10] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: They are not charged
[09:10] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: you should see 1.5V/cell at least from a rapid NiMH charge
[09:10] <ibanezmatt13> it says 1.29v, I thought they were only 1.2v for NiMhs
[09:10] <SpeedEvil> your charger is broken, or confused by the very dead cells.
[09:10] <HixWork> nominal
[09:11] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: they go up higher
[09:11] <eroomde> please stop second guessing your charger
[09:11] <eroomde> 1.2V is nominal
[09:11] <HixWork> did you get the Duracells ibanezmatt13 ?
[09:11] <eroomde> not maximum
[09:11] <ibanezmatt13> charger's fine, I just took them out to be precautious
[09:11] <HixWork> Ni-Mh prefer a few cycles to get the best out of them
[09:11] <Brian__> should I look at an alternative to the pi then?
[09:12] <Brian__> has anyone sent up lipo batteries if so how have they faired
[09:12] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/tutorial/InsideNimhBattery/inside_nimh_battery_technology_files/image018.gif
[09:12] <HixWork> most people use AVR here Brian__
[09:12] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: exactly, hence my saying stop second guessing your charger
[09:13] <eroomde> Brian__: rechargeable cells are usually avoided for hab
[09:13] <eroomde> especially LiPo
[09:13] <HixWork> most use Energizer Lithium AAs
[09:13] <eroomde> i think they have been used but really primary cells are better for the energeny density but mostly the temperature performance
[09:13] <eroomde> the energizer lithium ultimate cells are the defacto standard
[09:13] <Brian__> I guess due to their volatility, I use them in my RC vehicles
[09:14] <ibanezmatt13> only using rechargables to test though. Will be using lithiums for flight
[09:14] <eroomde> the blowing up thing is a disadvantage
[09:14] <HixWork> free cutdown?
[09:15] <Brian__> I just thought it might be easier to power the pi and camera from a single 5000mah lipo battery
[09:16] <Brian__> or a 2200mah
[09:16] <eroomde> easier than what?
[09:16] <Ugi> Morning guys.
[09:16] <Ugi> UpuWork - thanks for turning the GPSs round so fast
[09:16] <Brian__> than seperate AA's
[09:17] <ibanezmatt13> To be honest, I thought of that too
[09:17] <ibanezmatt13> Would be lighter
[09:18] <Brian__> that was my train of thought
[09:18] <Brian__> i was looking to power the pi and cameras from it
[09:18] <ibanezmatt13> Most people seem to use the Engergizer Lithiums though, I'm not sure what the advantage is but there must be something
[09:18] <Babs_> Those energizer lithiums are pretty light
[09:19] <eroomde> lower temperature performance and energy density
[09:19] <Ugi> I think disposable lithiums and LiPolys are pretty similar in power/weight
[09:19] <eroomde> wouldn;t be surprised if the energy density was better than your lipos but i'm not sure as lipos are built so delicately
[09:19] <ibanezmatt13> how about capacity?
[09:19] <eroomde> capacity is whatever you decide to buy
[09:19] <Babs_> In fact, Mr Mendeleev would probably argue only hydrogen based AAs would be lighter
[09:19] <eroomde> if you mean apacity per unit of mass, then that's what i mean by energy density
[09:19] <Babs_> *Babs makes first periodic table gag of the week
[09:19] <Brian__> I have numerous lipos 5000 6000 2000 2s 3s 4s etc
[09:20] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[09:20] <eroomde> LiPos are good ***for rechargeable cells***
[09:20] <Laurenceb_> there are lithium primary cells
[09:20] <Laurenceb_> *lipo primary
[09:20] <eroomde> doesn't mean they're good in the entire spectrum of battery technologies
[09:20] <Laurenceb_> they a little hard to buy
[09:20] <Brian__> how do you mean hard to buy?
[09:21] <ibanezmatt13> Which would be better overall for HAB flights?
[09:21] <Laurenceb_> few suppliers
[09:21] <eroomde> depends on your requirements
[09:21] <eroomde> but most people use energizer lithium ultimates, having tried lots of other things
[09:21] <Brian__> they are easily available in the uk, look at RC shops they stock them
[09:21] <eroomde> for a basic hab flight, that's what i would do
[09:21] <eroomde> up, down, cameras ina box
[09:21] <HixWork> In a bid to rid myself of my Adafruit USDB Tiny ISP is this Olimex AVR-ISP-MK2 the right one to go for http://goo.gl/LUN9Jb ? Can't remember
[09:21] <Darkside> use energizer lithiums. period.
[09:21] <Darkside> nothing else
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[09:22] <Darkside> unless you know you are goign to be drawing a large amount of current continuously
[09:22] <Laurenceb_> <Brian__>: those are rechargable lipo
[09:22] <Laurenceb_> i was talking lipo primary
[09:22] <ibanezmatt13> well in that case, it's gonna be the Energizer Lithiums for me
[09:22] <Laurenceb_> no uk suppliers aiui
[09:22] <eroomde> no, ignore Darkside's advice
[09:22] <Laurenceb_> lol
[09:22] <eroomde> doctrine is worth being shouted at for
[09:23] <Laurenceb_> also a123 if they still exist
[09:23] <ibanezmatt13> :\
[09:23] <Darkside> eroomde: eh?
[09:23] <eroomde> use energizer lithiums because you understand the reasons to use them
[09:23] <Darkside> oh
[09:23] <HixWork> ironically the've come back as B456
[09:23] <Darkside> yes
[09:23] <eroomde> don;t use them because someone on the internet said 'use them, period'
[09:23] <eroomde> that just means no one tries new or interesting things
[09:23] <HixWork> why not Duracell Lithium AA?
[09:24] <ibanezmatt13> sure, I was just thinking of reliability for a first launch. But I'll do some research
[09:24] <eroomde> i'll get off my high horse now
[09:24] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[09:24] <HixWork> laurenceb_ http://goo.gl/2tF8y
[09:24] <Laurenceb_> lol
[09:24] <HixWork> you coulnt make that up could you
[09:25] <Darkside> HixWork: we did try them once
[09:25] <Darkside> they didnt work as well
[09:25] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: have a look at that
[09:25] <HixWork> k
[09:25] <Darkside> i think we had a payload die with them
[09:25] <HixWork> fair enough Darkside
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[09:25] <eroomde> you can see the capacity at different discharge rates, see the mass, work out the number of what hours per kilogram or whatever you like
[09:25] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[09:25] <eroomde> and can then compare that to LiPos if you want
[09:25] <Babs_> HixWork - that will just be a lazy lawyer thinking up an on the shelf company name
[09:25] <eroomde> but not the effect of temp on capacity
[09:26] <HixWork> Babs_, I think its very amusing
[09:26] <Babs_> Example: Babs to Lawyer: "Why did you come up with the name CraneVan123 for that company?"
[09:26] <Babs_> Lawyer to Babs: "I needed a name, looked out of the window and there was a crane and a van there"
[09:27] <HixWork> found this yesterday Babs_ should be up your street http://www.varesano.net/projects/hardware/FreeIMU
[09:27] <Babs_> "What about the 123 bit?"
[09:27] <HixWork> works with your board too
[09:27] <Babs_> "When I went to post it on companies house, there was already a CraneVan registered"
[09:27] <Laurenceb_> HixWork: good luck buying it
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[09:28] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: I may be wrong, but according to that datasheet, at 21 degrees c with 1a continuous, it drops out to 0.8v after only 3 hours. We're aiming for a 4 hour flight
[09:28] <Laurenceb_> Fabio Varesano died :(
[09:28] <Brian__> do any of you guys meet up anywhere in the east of england?
[09:28] <ibanezmatt13> Although I guess I won't be drawing over 1000mA
[09:28] <Laurenceb_> so i guess that means no more webstore goods
[09:28] <Babs_> Hixwork - look at who posted on Wed, 2012-11-28 16:20 on that page
[09:28] <HixWork> was only really linking to the code on there
[09:29] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: you might have to put some in parallel
[09:29] <eroomde> ir also depends on how your power supply works
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[09:29] <eroomde> it might be able to convert say 10V at 1A max into a supply which can do 5V with 2A max
[09:30] <eroomde> basically the unit to consider everything in is power rather than voltags and amps
[09:30] <ibanezmatt13> well I was thinking just 8 Lithium AA's in a bat holder
[09:30] <HixWork> Babs_, josh?
[09:30] <eroomde> power (watts) = volts (V) x Amps (A)
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[09:30] <eroomde> Brian__: lots of launches happen in or near cambridge
[09:30] <Babs_> Hixwork - Josh
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[09:31] <Babs_> I imagine this was in the pre Richard Branson Challenge (TM) (Available for motivational talks) era
[09:32] <HixWork> lost me I'm afraid. Was there a prize for a space vehicle from RB?
[09:32] <Laurenceb_> pity Varesano was the one who died :(
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[09:33] <eroomde> HixWork: drop it
[09:34] <Laurenceb_> lol
[09:34] <Babs_> eroomde - I could hear your blood boiling from here
[09:35] <HixWork> ahhhhhhh - sorry Monday morning mode. Josh as in "Josh" Unit to measure the amount of bollox in an article
[09:35] <eroomde> nanoJosh's might be the better unit of c*ntiness of an article
[09:36] <HixWork> heh
[09:37] <HixWork> AVR-ISP-MK2 is that the correct ISP to go for?
[09:37] <Darkside> yes
[09:38] <HixWork> cool
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[09:49] <HixWork> My 9 free ATMegas are out for delivery today :) I am soon to be the proud owner of 33 UARTS
[09:50] <HixWork> an 0 breakout boards :/ oops
[09:50] <eroomde> what are you going to do with all those uarts?
[09:51] <HixWork> take over the NSA ;p
[09:51] <HixWork> oh and have some IMU based fun
[09:51] <eroomde> does IMUs need 33 uarts?
[09:51] <eroomde> do*
[09:51] <mfa298> get some modems and you could start up a dialup company
[09:51] <Laurenceb_> even stm32 only has 8 ...
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[09:52] <HixWork> no, I just asked for a load of samples and got them no questions
[09:52] <eroomde> fun
[09:52] <HixWork> 328, 644 and XMEGA128
[09:53] <HixWork> impressed to say the least
[09:53] <eroomde> the XMEGAs are really quite nice
[09:54] <HixWork> 128KB of space for really messy code too
[09:55] <HixWork> I might biuld a reflow oven though as some of the IMU compnents are small and awkward
[09:55] <HixWork> I also need an inexpensive supplier of stencils for prototyping
[09:55] <HixWork> as Mitch has stopped
[09:55] <ikarus> ugh
[09:56] <ikarus> I am going to fix the bloody stupid Razor AHRS firmware
[09:56] <eroomde> they do exist
[09:56] <eroomde> try pcbtrain
[09:56] <eroomde> you get free ones with pcb-pool.com
[09:56] <eroomde> who i normally use
[09:56] <HixWork> looked at the weekend and ~£35 per stencil
[09:56] <HixWork> not looked at pcb-pool
[09:57] <HixWork> will do now, ta
[09:57] <eroomde> have a look at their prototyping service
[09:57] <eroomde> it's based in europe
[09:57] <eroomde> it's pretty good
[09:57] <eroomde> not as cheap as china but a no brainer if you attach some value to time
[09:58] <eroomde> and ENIG free as standard which is good for tiny high lead density devices
[09:58] <Babs_> ikarus - what are you working on? I was playing around with that firmware last week
[09:59] <HixWork> wow I like them already eroomde "English Version" or "American Version"
[10:01] <HixWork> hmm, the price, not so much
[10:01] <Ugi> sitopway do stencils. Their PCBs are good and not outrageously priced. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290748969337
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> shrdlu over on ##electronics does stencils too
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> Laser cut polyester
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[10:03] <HixWork> cheers guys
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[10:06] <SpeedEvil> Taking things too far - or maybe not - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qzOzjRJpaU
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[10:06] <Ugi> I got my boards on Friday and my NTXs this morning so I'm all set to knock up my first tracker - only my netbook died on Friday. Damn!
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> 2 stage water bottle rocket hits 810 feet
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[10:07] <Ugi> That's a lota feet - hope they were all wearing shoes
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[10:08] <fsphil> 246.88 metres
[10:08] <fsphil> I think mine reached 10
[10:09] <Ugi> I did water rockets with an after-school club my daughter attends.
[10:09] <fsphil> they're quite neat
[10:09] <Ugi> fired at 45' we cleared two school football pitches
[10:09] <fsphil> don't go far enough to need a tracker
[10:09] <SpeedEvil> That would be an interesting materials science/physics project.
[10:09] <Ugi> noy unless you are -very- good
[10:10] <SpeedEvil> You're given stock fins and stuff.
[10:10] <SpeedEvil> You can make the bottle and nozzle of anything you like, as long as you do not exceed the nominal volume, and twice the dry mass
[10:10] <Ugi> I was doing with primary school so we just fired with and without water and saw the difference that the ejection mass makes
[10:11] <SpeedEvil> And you must use tapwater and air.
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[10:11] <Ugi> could make much more of a project with older ones, as you suggest
[10:11] <fsphil> add an engine to it. a little pump and lipo battery
[10:12] <eroomde> just had an order arrive from pcb pool infact
[10:12] <SpeedEvil> Big pump. :)
[10:12] <eroomde> for something i ordered on thursday
[10:12] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Of course, then that devolves to a li-ion battery in a pressure vessel, and a nail.
[10:12] <fsphil> my pcb pool order hasn't arrived yet
[10:12] <fsphil> hah, now that would be interesting SpeedEvil
[10:13] <HixWork> you done a breakout for the 644 fsphil ?
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[10:13] <fsphil> for my early boards I just used a through hole version HixWork
[10:13] <HixWork> ah oki, got TQFP samples :/
[10:13] <SpeedEvil> 'yes - for my rocket I do have a large zinc/sulfur battery - so?
[10:17] Nick change: jol02 -> jolo2
[10:18] <eroomde> i'm slowly coming round to the idea that electronic music has a place
[10:18] <eroomde> but only has background music for coding
[10:18] Action: SpeedEvil tries to resist.
[10:18] Action: UpuWork sends eroomde ASOT Episodes 1-618
[10:19] <SpeedEvil> Classical music has its place. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckMvj1piK58
[10:19] <SpeedEvil> With suitable additions.
[10:19] <eroomde> and provided there are no words
[10:20] Action: HixWork has lost his Shure earphones *sob*
[10:20] Action: SpeedEvil has lost his nexus 7.
[10:20] <fsphil> how'd you do that?
[10:20] <eroomde> i won't be putting a donk on anything
[10:20] <eroomde> does it respond to ping SpeedEvil?
[10:21] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: No, it has the annoying habbit of occasionally falling off the network
[10:21] <SpeedEvil> but thinking it's still logged in.
[10:21] <SpeedEvil> I know it's within 15m from me - but...
[10:22] <Ugi> need to run a UHF GPS tracker on it
[10:23] <eroomde> it would probably confirm that he is within 15m of it
[10:23] <Babs_> eroomde - electronic music has always had a place http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB1NiNKwueE
[10:23] <Ugi> Humm.... yes, might need to average for a while to actually find it!
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[10:25] <ikarus> Babs_: I am going to port an efficient implementation of the AHRS code by Madgewick (quaternions) to the Razor IMU without the Arduino garbage surrounding it, most work will be in reimplementing the callibration
[10:26] <eroomde> we are now listening to the shame theme
[10:26] <eroomde> a good segue from your thing babs
[10:26] <eroomde> iain started saying 'who's the man who...' in an isaac hayes voice but didn't know any of the lyrics
[10:26] <eroomde> so made them up quite convincingly
[10:26] <eroomde> 'does the naughty things to the naughty people'
[10:27] <eroomde> but it sounded quite convincing
[10:27] <Babs_> shame?
[10:27] <SpeedEvil> Babs_: I thought that was going to be theremin.
[10:27] <eroomde> er
[10:27] <eroomde> shaft
[10:28] <Babs_> ikarus - would be interested to see how it turns out. I am using arduino garbage but I agree, the calibration is a bit of a faff
[10:28] <Babs_> is your contention that the calibration is rubbish, or just a faff to implement
[10:28] <Babs_> awww man, I'm now listening to the CHiPs theme.
[10:29] <HixWork> I'm on street Hawk :)
[10:29] <ikarus> Babs_: the calibration is a bitch to implement, but one of the main advantages of this code is that it should run at about 2-3x the speed
[10:29] <HixWork> ikarus I'd be interested to see how this turns out too, building my own board
[10:30] <Babs_> ahhh, ok. The only thing is use it for is to print yaw,pitch,roll to the serial port, I'm doing everything else outside it so once the calibration is done, that part of the code is a bit superfluous
[10:30] <eroomde> all of techno is shit
[10:30] <eroomde> it's all just nyan cat
[10:31] <ikarus> Babs_: I am going to be producing quaternions from it, but those can trivially be turned into yaw/pitch/roll data
[10:31] <eroomde> but with a donk
[10:31] <eroomde> you can actually apparently operate on the quaternions directly with sensor fusion algorithms
[10:31] <eroomde> but i find the idea of that terrifying
[10:31] <eroomde> mixing two alegras like that, linear and quaternion
[10:32] <eroomde> or at least, translating a kalman filter from linear algebra to something else
[10:32] Action: SpeedEvil puts on some Darude.
[10:32] <ikarus> eroomde: that is exactly what Madgwicks code does
[10:33] <HixWork> Babs_, look what you've done http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pLFqeXm_5X4
[10:33] <eroomde> it sounds horrible
[10:33] <eroomde> link me up
[10:33] <Babs_> ikarus - I thought the quaternions were the baddies from Battlestar Gallactica. Having read up on them I see what you mean. It's just a case of projecting the vector and the rotational component onto the x,y,z plane to get yaw pitch and roll
[10:34] <ikarus> yup
[10:34] <ikarus> Babs_: quaternions are actually horrible hacks by themselves, they are a specific case of geometric algebra (which is a subset of clifford algebra and an extension of linear algebra)
[10:35] <ikarus> but they work well enough for 3D that very few people use GA
[10:35] <Babs_> I loved airwolf. Ernest Borgnine also came up with one of my favourite quotes when insulting his wife. Its the first one on this page and for the sensitive amongst you, is not a pretty sentence http://www.holymoly.com/film-dvd/news/hollywood-legend-ernest-borgnine-dies-here-are-some-his-most-outrageous-quotes63648
[10:36] <Babs_> ikarus - whats your background?
[10:36] <ikarus> Babs_: computer science
[10:36] <eroomde> nice
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[10:37] <eroomde> yes when i've written anything quaterniony i've just kept them as internal state and translated back into something nicer to let them be prodded by bayesian things
[10:37] <HixWork> "plenty of absolute rubbish because he seemingly didn’t believe in turning down a role just because the script was a stinker! "
[10:37] <ikarus> eroomde: which is a pretty sensible approach in many cases
[10:37] <eroomde> especially when time contrained which is my style of working
[10:37] <ikarus> but even I can be too lazy to work out all the details, I just read Madgewicks paper and it seems to work out well, so I am on the "why not" front
[10:38] <eroomde> i might have a look at it all again for mixing inertial stuff with gps stuff
[10:38] <eroomde> which is the next thing
[10:40] Action: SpeedEvil ponders for a moment a kalmanesque GPS solver.
[10:40] <SpeedEvil> Where you don't actually decode the signal at all, just compute a maximal likelyhood from the waveforms.
[10:40] Action: SpeedEvil runs away.
[10:41] <eroomde> what?
[10:41] <eroomde> you're just lobbing thought grenades
[10:41] <eroomde> to disable me
[10:42] <SpeedEvil> :)
[10:42] <Darkside> nerd sniping
[10:42] <SpeedEvil> Out pops X/Y/Z positions, and a backscatter radar map of the surroundings.
[10:42] <Darkside> haha
[10:46] <eroomde> ikarus: can you link me to this magicthegathering code?
[10:48] <ikarus> http://www.x-io.co.uk/open-source-imu-and-ahrs-algorithms/
[10:52] <eroomde> thanks will read the paper
[10:55] <eroomde> interesting
[10:56] <eroomde> wish: all computer langauges should settle on one way of writing else if
[10:56] <eroomde> instead of 5
[10:57] <eroomde> elif, elsif, else if, elseif
[10:57] <mfa298> only 5
[10:57] Action: mfa298 suspects there are more
[10:57] <Darkside> what uses elsif?
[10:58] <eroomde> vhdl
[10:58] <Darkside> oh
[10:58] <Darkside> i should remember that
[10:58] <Darkside> since i implemented an AM2901 in VHDL
[10:59] <HixWork> my mother used to use "Or Else"
[10:59] <HixWork> on me
[10:59] <mfa298> perl is elsif as well (I thought I'd seen it more recently than vhdl)
[10:59] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/wPKTWml.png
[10:59] <cuddykid> wind predictions don't look good for earlier part of the week
[11:07] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - HABE 9 - Tues/Wed (18th/19th June)
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[11:23] <fsphil> winds here have shifted to dropping my payload in the atlantic again
[11:24] <fsphil> also, the G8 summit
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[11:33] <HixWork> Babs_, https://github.com/pololu/MinIMU-9-Arduino-AHRS
[11:33] <HixWork> may be of use
[11:34] <HixWork> and ikarus
[11:34] <Ugi> What do you guys reckon are the chances of getting an Ardu' to talk to these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130929802756
[11:34] <Ugi> Has a serial interface and might be handy for backup GPS on landing
[11:35] <Ugi> rather over-spec'd thou' for an 8MHz AVR!
[11:35] <HixWork> I've got a load of them ugi
[11:35] <HixWork> the connector is the problem for me at the mo
[11:35] <Ugi> Any good?
[11:35] <Ugi> I see. Too tiny to solder?
[11:36] <HixWork> not used one. I've got some breakouits boards though they need 2 holes drilling
[11:36] <HixWork> yeah, i think they need stenciling
[11:36] <eroomde> might be worth a breakout board tho
[11:37] <eroomde> if it's got a serial port then i don;t see the problem
[11:37] <HixWork> http://stratosvision.com/img/_D2X4298 done that
[11:37] <Ugi> Well, if they're viable I might throw in a minimal bid & worry later. I seem to have found hardware description and command set so should be doable.
[11:37] <HixWork> Ugi I've got all the docs you need
[11:37] <Ugi> Man that's small!
[11:37] <HixWork> yup
[11:38] <Ugi> OK, I give it a punt and if I get them then I might ask you for some doc's if what I have isn't enough.
[11:39] <Ugi> must be worht something to someone so chances I won't get them.
[11:39] <HixWork> nps, I'll send you a breakout to test if you want, got 10 of em done
[11:39] <Ugi> That would be great if I get them - I'll let you know.
[11:39] <Ugi> Many thanks
[11:40] <HixWork> I paid £15 a pop for mine.
[11:41] <HixWork> though they are pretty small > http://i.imgur.com/8LAo9.jpg
[11:41] <Ugi> Well these are untested and I don't really need many so I won't be offering much but you never know with an auction - it could come up
[11:42] <cuddykid> ping UpuWork
[11:43] <Ugi> That's tiny - and light I guess so good for a light payload.
[11:55] <UpuWork> ping cuddykid
[11:58] <cuddykid> hi UpuWork - do you have a spare ezcap kicking around the office that I could pay you for?
[12:02] <cuddykid> afk
[12:07] <UpuWork> hmm
[12:07] <UpuWork> I have one you can borrow
[12:07] <UpuWork> don't want to sell it though
[12:07] <UpuWork> its an original EZCAP
[12:07] <UpuWork> wtih E4000
[12:10] <Babs_> Thanks Hixwork - that's awesome. will look into it
[12:11] <HixWork> nps
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[12:18] <Babs_> Hixwork - https://github.com/mikeshub/Pololu_Open_IMU/blob/master/Pololu_Open_IMU/Pololu_Open_IMU.ino
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[12:19] <Babs_> uses arduino uno, their board and does the quaternion thing that is in vogue this morning
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[12:24] <HixWork> heh nice patronsing println on line 75 :)
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[12:30] <ibanezmatt13> Good Afternoon :)
[12:30] <Laurenceb> wow
[12:30] <Laurenceb> thats going to be slow on failmega
[12:30] <ibanezmatt13> In dl-fldigi what is QTH and locator for?
[12:32] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: you can ignore those. But QTH means home location and locator is the IARU locator which is made up from some letters and numbers
[12:32] <ibanezmatt13> ah right ok, thanks
[12:32] <mfa298> they're used more in the standard fldigi application when doing digital modes
[12:33] <ibanezmatt13> Oh right
[12:33] <ibanezmatt13> I'm uploading my telemetry. Everything's running perfectly since I put it on stripboard
[12:36] <eroomde> quaternions have always been in vogue
[12:37] <HixWork> That Pololu Open IMU code has given me the fear.
[12:37] <eroomde> they're the solution to the problem of non-commutitivy of matrix transforms in linear algebra
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[12:52] <Babs_> eroomde - I'm going to start running a statistical analysis of words in your posts that I actually understand
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[12:53] <Babs_> c.30% on a good day, but only if the discussions also incorporates off-topic discussions on jazz flute and 1980s TV programmes
[12:54] <fsphil> mmmm 80s TV
[12:56] <HixWork> he jazz flute
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[12:57] <eroomde> dey all jazz flute
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[12:59] <Laurenceb> yo dssing my techno
[13:01] Action: SpeedEvil ponders suitable songs.
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> On the importance of getting the proper launch permission: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsU8fRvTeCI
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[13:03] <Babs_> The HAB version:
[13:04] <Babs_> 99 Red Balloons go by: "Luftballoon #1, I'm getting an intermittent decode. Luftballoon #2, the voltage is dropping rapidly, they must have used a LiPo...."
[13:06] <ibanezmatt13> :)
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[13:20] <ibanezmatt13> What's the best way to run my program automatically from boot on my Pi?
[13:22] <ibanezmatt13> And also, is it worth making my python code executable; at the moment I'm just running it with "sudo python ...,py" which I assume is using the standard python interpreter
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[13:28] <x-f> add it to /etc/rc.local to run at startup
[13:29] <x-f> or crontab - @reboot
[13:29] <ibanezmatt13> do I have to make it executable first?
[13:29] <x-f> you can add the whole `python /your/script.py` string there
[13:30] <x-f> it is not required to be executable
[13:30] <ibanezmatt13> oh is that a file, I thought it was a directory
[13:32] <ibanezmatt13> does it matter that the file is not executable? Will that have no effect on it?
[13:33] <x-f> your run it with python, not the file itself
[13:33] <x-f> so it can be without x
[13:34] <x-f> but you can of course chmod it for the peace of mind
[13:34] <ibanezmatt13> what is x?
[13:34] <x-f> just rememeber to specify the absolute path to python
[13:34] <x-f> file mode
[13:34] <x-f> rwx
[13:34] <x-f> read, write, execute
[13:34] <ibanezmatt13> is that where I include #!usr/bin or what ever that is
[13:35] <ibanezmatt13> at the start of the script
[13:35] <x-f> that too, but i meant in the rc.local or crontab script
[13:35] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, ok
[13:35] <x-f> usually it runs without PATH so i cannot find python or some other things by default
[13:36] <x-f> it*
[13:37] <ibanezmatt13> So I can use crontab to append it to the start up programs
[13:38] <x-f> do you really need to run your script with sudo?
[13:38] <mfa298> personally I'd use rc.local rather than in a cronjob.
[13:39] <mfa298> you probably also want to run it like:
[13:39] <mfa298> nohup sudo python script.py &
[13:40] <mfa298> & makes it run in the background and nohup stops it being stopped when the controlling shell/script exits
[13:40] <ibanezmatt13> does that mean that it won't close the program as a result of an interrupt or somethinfg
[13:40] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I've seen that before :)
[13:40] <x-f> i just start it in screen so i can attach to it and see, what's going on
[13:41] <ibanezmatt13> yeah that's what I'll do when I'm doing it
[13:41] <mfa298> the #!/usr/bin/python you can put at the top of the script it a hint to the shell as to what to use to run the code if you make it executeable. So if you had that line and made it executeable you could just run the script as ./script.py
[13:42] <ibanezmatt13> I see, thanks
[13:42] <mfa298> the same works for perl, php or any other interpreted language that's run from the shell like that
[13:43] <Laurenceb> http://invensense.com/ <- lolling
[13:44] <ibanezmatt13> So I can use chmod to make it executable, then open that /etc/rc.local file and add "nohup ./script.py &"
[13:45] <x-f> use absolute path
[13:46] <ibanezmatt13> That the #!usr/bin whatever?
[13:46] <x-f> that's the "nohup .." line
[13:47] <ibanezmatt13> So that's only put in the rc.local isn't it?
[13:48] <x-f> yes
[13:48] <ibanezmatt13> okie dokie, thanks :)
[13:48] <x-f> np
[13:50] <mfa298> ./ means run from the current directory, so in rc.local you need something like /home/pi/script.py
[13:52] <ibanezmatt13> so I need "nohub /home/pi/script.py &" ?
[13:53] <mfa298> the depends on where your script is
[13:54] <mfa298> that would work if your script is on /home/pi
[13:54] <ibanezmatt13> yeah it is :)
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[13:59] <eroomde> HixWork: 0.4mm pitch connector spacings
[13:59] <eroomde> to answer your q about should you use a stenci;
[13:59] <eroomde> yes
[13:59] <eroomde> observer board edge
[13:59] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/kyez24tzn0n8azd/2013-06-17%2014.24.51.jpg
[14:00] <eroomde> observe*
[14:00] <eroomde> infact regardless of the question abotu using stencils, the answer is always yes
[14:01] <HixWork> http://stratosvision.com/img/_D2X4298 see what happens with none
[14:01] <eroomde> i did
[14:01] <eroomde> that's why i was inspired to email you this picture
[14:02] <eroomde> comes free with pcb-pool
[14:02] <eroomde> tell them i sent you
[14:02] <eroomde> to which they will say 'who the f*ck is eroomde?'
[14:02] <Laurenceb> http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/3/2/4/0/5/7/a4437543-121-DSCN6724.jpg?d=1322085724
[14:02] <HixWork> looked at their board prices, and for a few dev boards at 50x50mm it was quoting >£140
[14:03] <eroomde> for what turnaround?
[14:03] <Laurenceb> http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/3/2/4/0/5/7/a4918699-78-DSCN7695.jpg
[14:03] <eroomde> jesus wept
[14:03] <HixWork> 8 days from memnory, longest you could choose
[14:03] <eroomde> i thought it was 15
[14:03] <HixWork> that board got warm then :)
[14:03] <eroomde> oh well
[14:03] <Laurenceb> why to use a stencil XD
[14:03] <eroomde> i love it when someone else is paying
[14:04] <HixWork> hmmm :/
[14:04] <eroomde> that's small bananas for consulting work
[14:04] <eroomde> painful for hobby tho i can see
[14:04] <HixWork> yup
[14:04] <Laurenceb> hehe "happy hacking"
[14:04] <HixWork> assuming it WAS an ESC
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[14:14] <S_Mark> does anyone know of a smd microsd socket and associated eagle file and footprint please?
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[14:18] <HixWork> sec S_Mark
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[14:18] <S_Mark> thanks HixWork
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[14:25] <HixWork> yhm S_Mark
[14:25] <S_Mark> hello
[14:25] <HixWork> gmailed you links and .brd and .sch
[14:26] <S_Mark> ah brilliant thank you v much!
[14:26] <S_Mark> will check them out when I get home
[14:27] <HixWork> nps
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[15:19] Action: Laurenceb has been discharging farnell lipos
[15:19] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/3LKQRh6E
[15:19] <Laurenceb> time - voltage, at 40mA
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> For any good reason?
[15:20] <Laurenceb> test them
[15:22] <Laurenceb> http://uk.farnell.com/bak/lp-503759-is-3/battery-lithium-pol-3-7v-1300-mah/dp/2077882 <- that
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[15:24] <SpeedEvil> Ow.
[15:25] <Laurenceb> nice for 3.3v operation through a ldo
[15:27] <eroomde> HixWork: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0cri7qld5466reb/2013-06-17%2016.22.09.jpg
[15:27] <eroomde> stencil boya
[15:27] Action: Laurenceb sends to tom66
[15:27] <fsphil> so clean
[15:28] <Laurenceb> what are the murata inductors for?
[15:28] <Laurenceb> well - murata style
[15:29] <eroomde> SMPA
[15:29] <eroomde> SMPS*
[15:30] <eroomde> was that rc groups guy tom66?
[15:30] <Laurenceb> including the 0603?
[15:30] <Laurenceb> the guy with the "soldering", yes
[15:30] <fsphil> sounds bad
[15:31] <eroomde> what happened there?
[15:31] <eroomde> was it next to a lipo fire?
[15:31] <Laurenceb> he poured solder paste on it
[15:31] <eroomde> or in a ham radio tower that got struck by lightning?
[15:31] <Laurenceb> then tried to reflow on a gas hob
[15:31] <eroomde> oh holy fuck
[15:31] <eroomde> so that's not actually an accidnet?
[15:31] <fsphil> lol
[15:31] <Laurenceb> no
[15:31] <eroomde> jesus
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[15:32] <Laurenceb> he decided stencils were not needed, and gas hob reflow is a good idea
[15:32] <eroomde> those inductors are to stop schmablah getting into the GPS
[15:32] <Laurenceb> ah
[15:32] <eroomde> stencils are the best investment
[15:32] <HixWork> tidy eroomde
[15:32] <HixWork> tom66 is obviously a cock of the highest order
[15:33] <Laurenceb> he raised tons on kickstarter
[15:33] <Laurenceb> then it turned out he'd wasted it all on ??
[15:34] <Laurenceb> and couldn't solder his OSD product
[15:34] <HixWork> have you got any links for this? sonds like a laugh to read through
[15:36] <HixWork> eroomde, have you had any joy with the paste and toothpick/hypo needle method for smd stuff?
[15:37] <lz1dev> q
[15:37] <Laurenceb> HixWork: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1290963&page=1
[15:37] <Laurenceb> 101 pages O_o
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[15:38] <HixWork> cheers
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[15:47] <eroomde> HixWork: no
[15:47] <eroomde> the only joy to be had is with stencils
[15:48] <eroomde> look at me doing the doctrine thing
[15:48] <eroomde> but seriously
[15:48] <eroomde> every other way is shit, this way is great
[15:48] <eroomde> the end
[15:49] <HixWork> I'm going to give the coke can etch thing a try, it's for one board at the mo. if it works, then I'll get a stencil with the next batch of boards
[15:49] <HixWork> fsphil, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nOGGzmFV0SY
[15:51] <eroomde> sure but don;t judge stenciling as a technique based on your experiences with a homemade effort
[15:52] <fsphil> looks like an american robin
[15:52] <HixWork> I won't. though I am considering making a stencil for every board i own in one sheet....
[15:52] <HixWork> replace make with purchase
[15:53] <mfa298> but also don't just do it because some person on the internet told you to (although he's probably right...) :p
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[15:54] <eroomde> 15:48 < eroomde> look at me doing the doctrine thing
[15:54] Last message repeated 3 time(s).
[15:54] <Laurenceb> ccccombobreaker
[15:54] <eroomde> 15:48 < eroomde> look at me doing the doctrine thing
[15:54] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
[15:54] <Laurenceb> ccccombobreaker
[15:55] <eroomde> oh sorry
[15:55] <eroomde> middle button fail
[15:55] <eroomde> it scrolled intead of pressed
[15:55] <eroomde> begging your pardon
[15:56] <mfa298> I missed that line scanning through.
[15:56] <eroomde> you didn;t this time :)
[15:56] <HixWork> eroome broke momentarily
[15:58] <eroomde> it happens
[15:58] <eroomde> too long a gap between my 11th and 12th coffee today
[15:59] <HixWork> heh
[15:59] <HixWork> Laurenceb, his soldering is very tidy http://goo.gl/W4kFZ
[15:59] <HixWork> not yours eroomde
[15:59] <HixWork> obviously
[16:00] Action: fsphil cries
[16:00] <mfa298> sounds like you just need to get a coffee intravenious drip.
[16:00] <fsphil> what's worse is that he's soldered wires to it, it's like he expects it to work?
[16:00] <HixWork> what could possibly go wrong
[16:00] <mfa298> it's alright, he can short the wires and blow the supply and blame it not working on that
[16:01] <HixWork> http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/3/2/4/0/5/7/a4918699-78-DSCN7695.jpg
[16:01] <HixWork> that
[16:02] <Laurenceb> looks like someone got excited by dat dspic
[16:04] <BrainDamage> wtf is that white goop?
[16:04] <BrainDamage> is that thermal paste?
[16:04] <Laurenceb> like i said...
[16:04] <BrainDamage> you said he didn't use a stencil and reflowed on a gas hob
[16:05] <BrainDamage> but that doesn't even look like tin
[16:06] <HixWork> I wonder how much IPA her had on there for the reflow :)
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[16:12] <WILLdude> Hi.
[16:12] <eroomde> i think solder can look like that if your temperatures are massively completely wrong
[16:13] <HixWork> what >500C
[16:14] <eroomde> jesus
[16:15] <eroomde> that terrible one you linked to is apparently the result of *cleaning* the board
[16:16] <WILLdude> It's so difficult to find UHF and VHF ham communications.
[16:16] <eroomde> yes
[16:16] <eroomde> because they're more line of sight
[16:17] <Ugi> looking at some of these links reminds me why I stick to through-hole!
[16:18] <Ugi> remind
[16:18] <Ugi> yours looks amazing thou' ermoode - do you have a reflow oven?
[16:20] <mfa298> VHF and UHF can often be dead at times. Although as it's around going home time you might find some stuff around the calling channels and repeaters
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[16:29] <WILLdude> Is there a directory of repeaters?
[16:29] <WILLdude> Still damn annoyed the scan function won't work.
[16:29] <mfa298> http://www.ukrepeater.net/
[16:30] <mfa298> you probably want http://www.ukrepeater.net/2m.htm and http://www.ukrepeater.net/70cm.htm
[16:31] <eroomde> Ugi: i have a reflow oven yes
[16:31] <eroomde> it's a £20 argos toaster oven
[16:31] <mfa298> WILLdude: GB3ET on 70cm (430MHz) might be worth a try.
[16:32] <eroomde> i get v nice results from it Ugi, i recommend it highly
[16:32] <eroomde> i do everything through it now
[16:32] <eroomde> eg https://www.dropbox.com/s/4aixgwq3poojom8/daqlayer.JPG
[16:34] <Laurenceb> sheeet
[16:34] <Laurenceb> those pressure sensors look pricey
[16:35] <Laurenceb> where are they from?
[16:36] <arko> i like the traco power regulator
[16:36] <Ugi> You converted at £20 toaster oven? With your own temperature profile controller?
[16:37] <Ugi> That's some lovely neat looking work!
[16:38] <WILLdude> mfa298: Is it active?
[16:39] <eroomde> Ugi: yes
[16:39] <eroomde> Laurenceb: GE
[16:39] <eroomde> arko: yes me too they're great
[16:39] <eroomde> isolated +/- 15V
[16:40] <arko> i wish i could have them on my uav, but they weigh a ton
[16:40] <WILLdude> I feel like giving upp.
[16:40] <arko> for a light aircraft
[16:40] <WILLdude> *up
[16:40] <mfa298> WILLdude: it should be working but there might not be anyone using it at the moment so you may only get the morse ident every 15 minutes
[16:40] <eroomde> they're quite heavy. and also do you really need the isolation on a uav?
[16:40] <arko> nah
[16:41] <Ugi> I did see an instructable on converting a toaster oven one time but I wasn't sure the result would be worth the effort.
[16:41] <arko> the sensor noise difference won't really be worth it
[16:41] <mfa298> I dont think I can quite get into gb3et normally. Not that im currently setup to recieve at the moment
[16:41] <WILLdude> Urgh. This is soo difficult.
[16:41] <Ugi> do you need anything fancier than a SSR, thermocouple & an AVR?
[16:42] <Laurenceb> ah yeah
[16:42] <Laurenceb> the GE sensors - i looked at them for pitot
[16:42] <Laurenceb> but nothing small
[16:46] <WILLdude> Any hams on here close to basingstoke?
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[16:46] <Laurenceb> tom66 ?
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[16:49] <mfa298> WILLdude: are you listening to a repeater at the moment ?
[16:50] <WILLdude> gb3et
[16:50] <WILLdude> Yes
[16:50] <WILLdude> Nothing received, poor los.
[16:50] <mfa298> I think it sent it's ident a couple of minutes ago.
[16:50] <mfa298> I'll see if I can access it.
[16:51] <mfa298> ready ?
[16:51] <WILLdude> Indeed.
[16:52] <mfa298> hear anything ?
[16:52] <mfa298> I think I got in although I didn't hear a acknowledgement beep so I may not have got in.
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[16:54] <mfa298> It just sent a morse ident so you should have heard that if your antenna is working
[16:54] <WILLdude> Nope, didn't
[16:54] <mfa298> actually that may have been gb3sn (dual recieve is a pain)
[16:55] <mfa298> one of them just sent an ident.
[16:55] <griffonbot> Received email: mclane "[UKHAS] Launch announcement PYSY-5"
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[16:57] <WILLdude> Maybe try another one?
[16:57] <mfa298> I can try gb3sn
[16:59] <Ugi> gotta run guys - TTFN.
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[17:00] <WILLdude> Ok
[17:00] <mfa298> let me know when your ready
[17:01] <WILLdude> Ready
[17:02] <mfa298> Just tried but I don't think I could get into the repeater.
[17:02] <mfa298> I did hear it send an ident a while ago.
[17:03] <mfa298> it just sent a morse ident (only lasts a couple of seconds though)
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[17:04] <WILLdude> FM-N, right? Not heard.
[17:04] <mfa298> yep should be FMN
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[17:05] <mfa298> you should hear it on FM as well but will probably work slightly better on FMN
[17:05] <mfa298> you might need to try moving your antenna around a bit.
[17:05] <mfa298> if you can get the end up high that's likely to help
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[17:06] <WILLdude> It's as high as possible.
[17:07] <ibanezmatt13> Good Evening :)
[17:08] <ibanezmatt13> I've started reading this pretty good .pdf about learning C
[17:10] <mfa298> WILLdude: is it just a long piece of wire connected to the centre of the coax ?
[17:11] <mfa298> (and how long is long ?)
[17:13] <WILLdude> mfa298: Yesh
[17:14] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: what's the title?
[17:15] <mfa298> you might find adding some radials to the braid of the coax helps. and then get the wire from the centre going vertical.
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[17:15] <mfa298> If you have a tree you can suspend it from that could help.
[17:16] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde, I don't think it's a proper one to be honest, it just says C programming. It's not as good as I thought actually. They just seem to assume that I know it already
[17:17] <ibanezmatt13> I'm looking for a really good one that will help people like me who have never used C before to get from nothing up to a good enough standard to do this sort of stuff.
[17:18] <eroomde> Learn C The Hard Way
[17:18] <eroomde> it's great
[17:18] <eroomde> you would enjoy it
[17:18] <ibanezmatt13> I looked at that too, it's pretty darn complicated
[17:18] <eroomde> it assumes you've done a bit of nother language before which you have
[17:18] <eroomde> just start at the beginning
[17:19] <ibanezmatt13> I got up to the Valgrind and then I thought it was no good
[17:19] <eroomde> don;t look at chapter 22 or whatever before you get there
[17:19] <ibanezmatt13> I started from the beginning
[17:19] <eroomde> valgrind looks much more intimidating than it actually is
[17:19] <ibanezmatt13> I'll try it again
[17:19] <eroomde> lots of tools in linux will fire-hose a wall of text at you
[17:20] <mfa298> the best piece of advice I can give for using any course is work through it all. Don't assume you can skip steps because you know it already or try using it as a reference as that doesn't work.
[17:20] <eroomde> but the important thing to remember is lots of it is just crap and crud and not actually that complicated. the skill you develop is noticing the bits you need to notice
[17:20] <eroomde> and LCTHW is pretty good in that respect
[17:21] <ibanezmatt13> Well in that case, I'll start it again. And if there's something I really don't get, I'll just mention it.
[17:21] <eroomde> yes, come and ask on here
[17:21] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks
[17:21] <eroomde> you're definitely up to it, based on what you've shown here of the stuff you're doing
[17:21] <eroomde> you picked up the python stuff pretty quickly
[17:22] <eroomde> but yes, it might all look a bit arcane but just give it time to digest in and ask questions on here. the underlying concepts are usually really simple and neat
[17:22] <jcoxon> evening eroomde
[17:22] <ibanezmatt13> will do, thanks eroomde :
[17:22] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[17:22] <eroomde> just can look a bit confusing when it's wrapped up as (a **b)(c,&d){}
[17:22] <eroomde> yo jcoxon
[17:23] <jcoxon> eroomde, hows it going?
[17:23] <eroomde> v well
[17:23] <jcoxon> :-0
[17:23] <jcoxon> oops
[17:23] <jcoxon> :-)
[17:24] <eroomde> just making up some stuffs at work
[17:24] <eroomde> made up a pcb
[17:24] <eroomde> had some coffee
[17:24] <eroomde> bought an ssd
[17:24] <eroomde> bore witness to iain loosing the plot next to me
[17:24] <jcoxon> eek
[17:24] <eroomde> he's taken on the Great Multithreaded Bug
[17:25] <eroomde> he just stormed out of the office into his car and drove home
[17:25] <eroomde> about 2 minutes ago
[17:25] <jcoxon> i'm soldering up my iss aprs setup
[17:25] <eroomde> just left the terminal with an error message
[17:25] <eroomde> can't link against clang's address sanitiser
[17:25] <eroomde> been battling that for hours
[17:25] <eroomde> anyway it has broken him
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[17:27] <WILLdude> I wonder if an ssd would fit in my pc case securely. It has runner that you screw onto a hard drive.
[17:28] <WILLdude> I'll ask #hardware
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[17:28] <jcoxon> hopefully going to test it on tonights iss pass
[17:28] <arko> jcoxon: nice!
[17:29] <arko> whats the hardware?
[17:29] <jcoxon> arko, so its an arduino and a baofeng uv-3r
[17:29] <jcoxon> it can predict the iss position
[17:29] <jcoxon> and then transmit packets to it
[17:29] <arko> oh no way
[17:30] <arko> does the arduino calculate based on the tle?
[17:30] <jcoxon> yeah
[17:31] <jcoxon> and uses its gps for position
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> Nice.
[17:32] <SpeedEvil> I was pondering doing something similar using NASA TV and a laser
[17:32] <SpeedEvil> The size of laser you need to be visible from an ISS camera isn't very large
[17:33] <jcoxon> arko, that said its debatable whether the radio is sufficient
[17:33] <arko> jcoxon: wow dude, nice
[17:33] <arko> yeah you need a directional antenna
[17:33] <arko> i;ve tried
[17:33] <arko> you may get lucky though
[17:34] <jcoxon> well i hope on a balloon it might be better
[17:34] <jcoxon> :-p
[17:34] <arko> oh no way!!
[17:34] <arko> is that what you're doing?
[17:34] <arko> hab to talk to the iss?
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[17:34] <jcoxon> yeah
[17:34] <jcoxon> so get position reports via the iss passes
[17:36] <SpeedEvil> Hah
[17:36] <arko> :)
[17:36] <arko> super cool
[17:36] <Hes> I've gotten packets through ISS using a vertical antenna, 2*5/8 in Helsinki, FI
[17:36] <arko> whens launch?
[17:36] <arko> Hes: but have you sent?
[17:36] <Hes> yes, of course
[17:36] <ibanezmatt13> How do you judge how much free space to leave in the payload box for heat dissipation and what not?
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[17:37] <Hes> A directional antenna is needed if you need to overpower someone else's signal at the ISS
[17:37] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: i'm not sure people do
[17:37] <eroomde> although the pi gets quite hot so maybe there's some science there
[17:38] <arko> hmm, i must be stuck in a pretty crappy place, i've always had bad luck with the iss
[17:38] <Hes> if you don't transmit on top of someone else, 5W and GP should work.
[17:38] <eroomde> ask dave
[17:38] <arko> i can hear it, but thats about it
[17:38] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, was just thinking about stuff overheating. I will do
[17:38] <arko> thermal lump it, have good contact with the foam
[17:38] <eroomde> it melts the foam
[17:38] <eroomde> so don;t do that
[17:38] <eroomde> maybe some copper foil
[17:39] <arko> wait what?
[17:39] <ibanezmatt13> it melts the foam!?
[17:39] <eroomde> yes
[17:39] <ibanezmatt13> wow
[17:39] <eroomde> it gets hot
[17:39] <arko> the Pi specifically
[17:39] <eroomde> yes
[17:39] <eroomde> it was probably the usb/eth chip tho iirc
[17:39] <eroomde> not sure about the model A
[17:39] <arko> ah ok
[17:39] <arko> even if you coat it?
[17:40] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.daveakerman.com/?attachment_id=1155
[17:40] <ibanezmatt13> There wasn't much free space there by the looks of it
[17:40] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.daveakerman.com/?attachment_id=1160
[17:40] <eroomde> coating it wouldn't help much
[17:40] <eroomde> maybe copper foil
[17:41] <arko> hmm
[17:42] <ibanezmatt13> I think we'd better give dave a ping
[17:42] <arko> i'm curious what you mean by copper foil, as in wrap it in copper foil or connect it directly to the power reg (i assume is what generates most of the heat) ?
[17:43] <eroomde> just have a tab in contact with the surface of the package
[17:44] <eroomde> and then run it away into freer space
[17:44] <eroomde> or to something else
[17:44] <arko> heatsink it
[17:44] <arko> i see what you mean
[17:44] <eroomde> yes
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[17:45] <arko> vacuum thermal testing would be handy to find out how well these things work :P
[17:45] <eroomde> yes
[17:45] <eroomde> yes it would
[17:46] <arko> i need to have a cheap setup ready and demoed by ukhas
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[17:47] <arko> goal being to provide cheap env testing for habs
[17:47] <arko> it's funny, for spacecraft, it's always thermal analysis in something like comsol or whatever
[17:48] <arko> for habs it's just something really simple and cheap
[17:48] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, for powering the Pi through its GPIO header, Do you feed a regulated +5v into pin 2 (the 5v pin) and then ground pin 6 (the ground pin) ? Is it that simple?
[17:49] <arko> most of the trick is really just thermally "lumping" the electronics boards and contacting it against the chassis
[17:49] <daveake> yes that simple
[17:49] <ibanezmatt13> Wow, that's excellent
[17:51] <ibanezmatt13> And regarding those LM2596 regulators (the one with the four corners and all the capacitors and potentiometers already one it), would it matter if it didn't have a heatsink?
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: At low currents no
[17:51] <ibanezmatt13> ah good, thanks
[17:55] <ibanezmatt13> The next step on the checklist is to wire 9v into my breadboard, then connect the 3.3v and the 5v regs to this 9v rail. Once that's done, the next step is box design, which is where I need to think about heat dissipation and all that jazz - should be fun :)
[17:55] <ibanezmatt13> stripboard*
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[18:13] <W0OTM> iHAB-11 Balloon Burst Video - https://www.dropbox.com/s/05bzaml7nxnu80z/GO020083_Burst.mp4
[18:13] <W0OTM> ~80,000ft
[18:14] <arko> cool video
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[18:19] <fsphil> 24.8km -- heavy payload?
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[18:40] <jcoxon> okay, all wired up
[18:42] <arko> when you flying?
[18:42] <jcoxon> next iss pass is in just over an hour
[18:42] <jcoxon> arko, it needs to be tested thoroughly
[18:42] <arko> ahh
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[18:42] <arko> coolio
[18:42] <jcoxon> i haven't yet hit the iss with this setup
[18:43] <arko> how much power?
[18:43] <jcoxon> 2W
[18:43] <jcoxon> its going to be tight
[18:43] <jcoxon> but if it doesn't work it just needs a radio upgrade
[18:43] <arko> ah
[18:44] <jcoxon> also need to get it to switch freqs
[18:44] <jcoxon> so that it can do terrestrial APRS as well
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[18:47] <jcoxon> its been a fun project though
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[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[18:49] <arko> jcoxon: i cant remember, but the iss is ax.25 on a different freq
[18:49] <arko> ?
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[18:56] <fsphil> 145.825 mhz
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[18:57] <jcoxon> yeah its just adifferent freq
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[18:57] <jcoxon> fsphil, i think this might fail :-p
[18:58] <arko> ah cool
[18:58] <fsphil> optimism jcoxon :)
[18:58] <arko> whats aprs in the uk?
[18:58] <arko> its 144.390 here
[18:58] <fsphil> but yea I think you're right ;)
[18:58] <jcoxon> 144.800
[18:58] <arko> ah
[18:58] <arko> cool
[18:58] <jcoxon> i've attached it to my colinear
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[18:58] <fsphil> last time I tried this I had to use 50 watts
[18:58] <arko> jcoxon: are you interfacing to the beofeng via i2c?
[18:58] <jcoxon> fsphil, i've done it with my ft817
[18:59] <fsphil> interesting
[18:59] <jcoxon> arko, no currently i'm just using PTT and mic
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[18:59] <jcoxon> but some baofengs are hackable
[18:59] <jcoxon> (but not mine apparently)
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[19:00] <jcoxon> elevation is currently -62
[19:00] <jcoxon> so got a bit to go before its in sight
[19:01] <arko> :)
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> did Upu say he is afk?
[19:05] Nick change: MichaelC -> MichaelC|Away
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[19:09] <daveake> believe so LL
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
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[19:54] <jcoxon> eleveation - 10
[19:54] <jcoxon> not long...
[19:56] <fsphil> hmm,, I must setup
[19:56] <jcoxon> hehe you've got about 3 mins :-p
[19:56] <jcoxon> -3
[19:57] <fsphil> it's above my horizon already...
[19:57] <jcoxon> currently we only start telem if >5 deg
[19:58] <mfa298> Just got my TS2000 setup although the only place I might see packets is in agwpe at the moment (that's if I hear anything)
[19:58] <jcoxon> okay here we go
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[19:59] <fsphil> see it
[20:00] <fsphil> very weak
[20:01] <gonzo_> strong here
[20:01] <jcoxon> oh no
[20:01] <jcoxon> my radio batter is running out
[20:01] <jcoxon> battery
[20:01] <jcoxon> eek
[20:02] <gonzo_> battered radio, sounds nice
[20:02] <fsphil> deep fried radio
[20:02] <fsphil> I'm hearing packet but not decoding any of it
[20:02] <jcoxon> oh
[20:02] <jcoxon> damn it
[20:03] <fsphil> that doppler shift is fast
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[20:04] <fsphil> gone quiet
[20:04] <jcoxon> i'm out of power
[20:04] <mfa298> I obviously need a better antenna I didn't hear a thing (it's only a simple dipole so didn't expect great things)
[20:04] <jcoxon> so nothing go transmitted
[20:04] <fsphil> bad timing :/
[20:04] <jcoxon> couldn't find my spare
[20:05] <jcoxon> that is so annoying
[20:05] <fsphil> I've decoded ISS packet before, not sure why that didn't work
[20:06] <WILLdude> If I get a license, I wanna tx to the iss..
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> The rocket is probably the expensive part.
[20:07] <gonzo_> get on with it then will
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[20:07] <WILLdude> The license?
[20:07] <gonzo_> yep. with your progress you'll have no probs
[20:07] Nick change: MichaelC|Away -> MichaelC
[20:07] <WILLdude> I'm attending a course in autumn.
[20:08] <jcoxon> right lets charge this radio
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[20:16] <jcoxon> next pass is 2236
[20:16] <jcoxon> so will give that a go (though its not ideal)
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[20:21] <fsphil> lower might be a bit better for the colinear
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[20:27] <Laurenceb_> http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/mmc/FM141/SC1169/SS1295/LN1808?icmp=stm32l100_bn_home_jun2013
[20:27] <Laurenceb_> new stuff
[20:31] <WILLdude> Can Upu's breakout board for the ublox support 3.3v serial too?
[20:32] <Upu> yes Will dude you can use the 3.3V RX & TX at the side
[20:32] <Upu> but you'll still need to supply 5V to the 5V input
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[20:32] <WILLdude> Looking at the BBB.
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[20:32] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong here, but I'm not sure if I'm putting the correct path at the start of my python script. I'm trying to use chmod -x scriptname.py to make my program executable but when I try to run it with ./scriptname.py, I get a permissions error, even doing sudo ./scriptname.py.
[20:33] <fsphil> isn't it +x?
[20:33] <ibanezmatt13> yeah that's what I meant sorry.
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[20:33] <ibanezmatt13> Is it definitely #!usr/bin/python?
[20:33] <mfa298> you can also do chmod 755 which will force it to rwxr-xr-x
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[20:34] <fsphil> that's what I normally do
[20:34] <mfa298> you want a / in front of the use
[20:34] <mfa298> s/use/usr/
[20:34] <fsphil> oh yea
[20:34] Action: mfa298 realises that correction might be a bit confusing
[20:34] <mfa298> #!/usr/bin/python
[20:34] <ibanezmatt13> ah I see, thanks
[20:34] <mfa298> (I'm assuming python on the pi is where you'de expect it to be)
[20:35] <fsphil> tis
[20:35] <ibanezmatt13> don't know how I missed that really. Yes it is
[20:35] <ibanezmatt13> chmod 755 scriptname.py ?
[20:35] <WILLdude> might be good for doing away with C, for the Ublox.
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[20:36] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: yep
[20:36] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[20:36] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: don't worry about it. It's one of those silly mistakes we all make and spend hours try to fix, and someone else spots it immediately
[20:37] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, thanks for spotting it :)
[20:37] <WILLdude> Anyon done a BBB payload?
[20:37] <fsphil> a what what?
[20:38] <mfa298> WILLdude: what do you mean by a BBB payload ?
[20:38] <ibanezmatt13> ./MATT-1.py
[20:38] <ibanezmatt13> - ./MATT-1.py: No such file or directory
[20:38] <WILLdude> Beagle Bone Black
[20:39] <WILLdude> ibanezmatt13: Type ls
[20:39] <mfa298> wikipedia doesn't help unless it's a Blue Brothers Band payload
[20:39] <WILLdude> See if it's there.
[20:39] <ibanezmatt13> ah, only the .py file is there
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[20:40] <fsphil> I spent 30 minutes trying to fix a bug in python where it couldn't seem to find any of the serial port functions
[20:41] <fsphil> turned out naming the filename of the python script is important. I'd called it serial.py
[20:41] <ibanezmatt13> ah
[20:41] <ibanezmatt13> still not working here I'm afraid
[20:41] <fsphil> which to a C programmer is a stupid way of doing things :)
[20:42] <ibanezmatt13> From what I've read, a C programmer is "more" of a programmer than a python programmer.
[20:42] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: try a "ls -l" and check the perms are correct (you want rwxr-xr-x)
[20:42] <ibanezmatt13> not got one of those
[20:42] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: thar be dangerous words ;)
[20:44] <mfa298> I'd suggest the best programmer is someone that picks the right tool for the job.
[20:44] <fsphil> unless they pick VB6
[20:44] <fsphil> then they're doing the wrong job
[20:45] <mfa298> For string processing I'd tend to go for perl (or python for the younger people) over C, for some complex maths I'd probably use something like matlab (or a free alternative)
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> My Uncle is a programmer for a bank and they use VB6 - Santander that is. He always says that one day where you had £50 in your bank, you could end up with £5 million
[20:45] <fsphil> the program I wrote to query my PV inverter was in python - it was just easier
[20:45] <mfa298> VB6 would be like using a wet piece of string as a screwdriver.
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> Apparently a of this week they're moving over to VB.NET
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> as of*
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[20:46] <fsphil> they should spend the tiny bit of extra effort and just use c sharp
[20:46] <mfa298> please let that day be tomorrow and with my bank account (just as long as it can't go the other way - not that I have 5mil to change to £5)
[20:46] <fsphil> lol
[20:46] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[20:46] <fsphil> -5mil + £5
[20:46] <fsphil> you owe the bank nearly 5 million
[20:46] <anerDev> hi guys !
[20:46] <fsphil> evening and
[20:46] <fsphil> anerDev even :)
[20:47] <fsphil> skipped ahead to the D there
[20:47] <ibanezmatt13> back to the boring troubleshooting... This executable lark is really starting to become frustrating
[20:47] <anerDev> guys, where can I buy a usb dongle ?
[20:47] <anerDev> on the ava store there isn't !
[20:48] <anerDev> Ezcap
[20:48] <fsphil> you'll have to be more specific anerDev
[20:48] <fsphil> ah
[20:48] <fsphil> yea upu doesn't sell them anymore
[20:48] <ibanezmatt13> sudo chmod 755 MATT-1.py with #!/usr/bin/python at the start then to run: sudo ./MATT-1.py I've tried with and without sudo
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[20:49] <fsphil> you don't need sudo
[20:49] <mfa298> a few people have suggested cosycave for the dongles. Otherwise try ebay. Or spend a bit more and get a Funcube Pro+
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> how muh are those?
[20:49] <mfa298> shouldn't need sudo to change the permissions (unless the script is owned by root)
[20:49] <chrisstubbs> you will need sudo to execute hte python script on the pi as it uses the serial ports and stuff
[20:49] <fsphil> plus you can also buy fake medicine
[20:50] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: can you show the output of "ls -l MATT-1.py"
[20:50] <ibanezmatt13> yeah sure, one sec
[20:50] <mfa298> you might be able to add the pi user to the right group so you don't need to sudo
[20:50] <ibanezmatt13> before stupidly I just ran ls -l didn't realise you needed the name
[20:50] <ibanezmatt13> -rwxr-xr-x 1 pi pi 3841 Jun 17 20:36 MATT-1.py
[20:50] <anerDev> 124 £ ! O.O
[20:51] <fsphil> ls -l would work too, just show every file in the current directory
[20:51] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[20:51] <fsphil> yep that's fine
[20:51] <anerDev> on ebay I'm searching RTL2832U and all ship or from USA or China (20 days !!!)
[20:51] <ibanezmatt13> Wonder why it's not working
[20:51] <anerDev> where can i buy in europe ?
[20:51] <fsphil> what happens when yo utry?
[20:52] <ibanezmatt13> -bash: ./MATT-1.py: /usr/bin/python^M: bad interpreter: No such file or directory
[20:52] <mfa298> anerDev: cosycave has been suggested by some people for the rtl dongles
[20:52] <fsphil> there you go
[20:52] <ibanezmatt13> That's not utry btw :)
[20:52] <chrisstubbs> anerDev, cozycave
[20:52] <fsphil> utry, not itry
[20:52] <ibanezmatt13> just utry on its own?
[20:52] <fsphil> n/m :)
[20:53] <fsphil> your error is telling you something
[20:53] <Tommo> https://www.cosycave.co.uk/category.php?id_category=61
[20:53] <anerDev> https://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=220
[20:53] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: chrisstubbs: "sudo usermod -a -G tty pi" should let you access the serial port without needing to sudo
[20:53] <ibanezmatt13> that the interpreter aint in the right place?
[20:53] <ibanezmatt13> thanks mfa298
[20:54] <fsphil> look at the interpreter name
[20:54] <mfa298> you'll need to log out and back in for the group change to take effect
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[20:54] <ibanezmatt13> ^M?
[20:54] <fsphil> yarp
[20:54] <ibanezmatt13> stupid puTTY!
[20:55] <ibanezmatt13> I can fix that
[20:55] Action: mfa298 hopes the pi has dos2unix (unless it's just the single line thats bad)
[20:56] <fsphil> how'd it end up with a dos newline to begin with though
[20:56] <ibanezmatt13> looks fine in nano, same error again
[20:56] <ibanezmatt13> must be puTTY
[20:57] <fsphil> it's not
[20:57] <mfa298> I wonder if the file started off on windows at which point all lines might have a dos newline
[20:57] <nigelvh> That would be a more reasonable explanation.
[20:57] <fsphil> how did you create the file ibanezmatt13?
[20:57] <mfa298> nano and vim will hide it by default
[20:57] <ibanezmatt13> using the python GUI
[20:57] <nigelvh> Putty doesn't do crap to newlines.
[20:57] <fsphil> on windows?
[20:57] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[20:57] <fsphil> bingo
[20:58] <mfa298> dos2unix doesn't seem to be in the default rasbian
[20:58] <fsphil> the newline on windows is, in hex, 0x0D 0x0A
[20:58] <fsphil> on linux and unix, it's just 0x0A
[20:58] <mfa298> must be time to learn some sed :D
[20:58] <fsphil> dos2unix will fix it
[20:58] <ibanezmatt13> I've no idea how this hex thing works, but still. So I need to get dos2unix?
[20:58] <mfa298> it's not on rasbian by default
[20:59] <nigelvh> apt-get install ....
[20:59] <nigelvh> Freaking love apt.
[20:59] <fsphil> it'll be alright when they make the apt-get update part automatic
[20:59] <mfa298> yup, it's in apt, I hadn't got as far as checking.
[20:59] <ibanezmatt13> ok, it has installed
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[21:00] <fsphil> afaik you just run it on the file, should do the job
[21:00] <ibanezmatt13> dos2unix MATT-1.py ?
[21:00] <fsphil> yep
[21:00] <fsphil> if in doubt, run: man dos2unix
[21:01] <fsphil> for the manual
[21:01] <ibanezmatt13> hey it worked, that's a nice little app
[21:01] <fsphil> there is also the less useful unix2dos
[21:01] <ibanezmatt13> all is good now
[21:02] <mfa298> not sure why you'd ever need that one :p
[21:02] <fsphil> doesn't everyone use gvim on windows anyway? :)
[21:02] <mfa298> just install gvim on windows if you want to edit unix text files on windows, much easier
[21:02] <ibanezmatt13> Just need to get this to load at boot now
[21:02] <nigelvh> Some people still use windows.
[21:02] <ibanezmatt13> will do
[21:02] <anerDev> but with GQRX
[21:03] <anerDev> I can use all type of usb dvb-t dongle ?
[21:03] <nigelvh> ibanezmatt13, if you need something to run at boot, look at /etc/rc.local
[21:03] <ibanezmatt13> yep, I got that info earlier. Gonna give it a try now :)
[21:03] <fsphil> lovely huge thunderstorm over france atm
[21:04] <ibanezmatt13> well, I've never seen a bash script before
[21:04] <nigelvh> Bash makes the web go round.
[21:05] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, I'm wondering where to shove this executable line
[21:05] <fsphil> it's the duct tape of the internet
[21:05] <ibanezmatt13> which I think is "nohup ./MATT-1.py &"
[21:05] <mfa298> not just the web, the whole internet (unless you want to start talking about BGP instead)
[21:05] <ibanezmatt13> wow, I didn't think it was so useful
[21:05] <mfa298> /home/pi/MATT-1.py rather than ./MATT-1.py
[21:05] <nigelvh> The VAST majority of the internet runs on linux.
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[21:06] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes, forgot that part
[21:06] <mfa298> after linux there's a whole range of other unixes as well (I still don't trust linux for some stuff)
[21:06] <ibanezmatt13> So do I just put it anywhere in this bash script rc.local? It looks like a normal piece of code really. Comments say that it doesn't do anything by default
[21:07] <mfa298> although even a lot of bit internet routers are going down the linux route.
[21:07] <nigelvh> The linux stack these days is perfectly good for any of that stuff.
[21:07] <fsphil> I used to have a freebsd box back in the day
[21:08] <fsphil> it was for a while a bit faster as a server than linux
[21:08] <nigelvh> I haven't looked recently, but I remember for a while the freebsd network stack was slightly faster than the linux network, but I wonder where it is these days.
[21:08] <fsphil> very much doubt it
[21:08] <fsphil> or at least, not enough to matter
[21:08] <nigelvh> That's my thought
[21:09] <fsphil> still waiting for hurd to take over
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[21:09] <mfa298> some of my home stuff is solaris as the linux stack wasn't that good with IPv6 when I was setting it up. ip6tables wasn't stateful although that should have changed now.
[21:09] <nigelvh> Hahaha
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[21:09] <fsphil> my ipv6 setup is pretty basic
[21:10] <fsphil> works well though
[21:10] <nigelvh> My ISP hasn't gotten around to getting IPv6 to me yet, so I don't run IPv6.
[21:10] <nigelvh> Though where I work we use lots of IPv6 on linux and it works fine.
[21:10] <mfa298> my ISP doesn't either but tunnels are easy.
[21:10] <fsphil> I used a broker for a while
[21:10] <fsphil> but current isp has native
[21:11] <ibanezmatt13> this is definitely a bit on the confusing side.
[21:11] <fsphil> well, they do native and a tunnel - I'm using the tunnel atm, couldn't get native working in openwrt
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[21:11] <nigelvh> Never been terribly impressed with openwrt
[21:11] <fsphil> it has many issues :)
[21:12] <nigelvh> I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a lot better than a lot of stock firmwares, but it's far from perfect.
[21:12] <mfa298> every time I think of trying the likes of openwrt I find all the hardware I've ever bought isn't compatible.
[21:12] <fsphil> my wrt56gl's are horribly outdated
[21:13] <mfa298> although I'm not sure openwrt will beat IOS for an ADSL router
[21:13] <fsphil> become a bit of a bottleneck
[21:13] <nigelvh> Yeah, I moved to a Ubiquiti Bullet M2HP for wifi (runs linux stock), and use a RouterBoard 750 running RouterOS for my main network
[21:13] <fsphil> I've hit another bug recently, I can't remove any packages
[21:14] <fsphil> it's out of space and I'm stuck. can't even edit a file
[21:14] <fsphil> if the raspberry pi had a few ethernet ports I'd probably use one of those
[21:15] <nigelvh> I used to run my network on an old soekris 4501, but it can only really push about 11mbps through, and when my home connection is 50/10, I'm not willing to give up the other 40.
[21:16] <fsphil> I've got one of those somewhere
[21:16] Action: mfa298 wishes for the day of having >0.448 upstream
[21:17] <fsphil> not sure any modern distro would run on it
[21:17] <nigelvh> Yeah, I'm quite happy with my 10 upstream (rated), often speedtests show me closer to 15.
[21:17] <fsphil> it's a 486 isn't it?
[21:17] <nigelvh> I got debian 5 on mine.
[21:17] <nigelvh> Yes, it's a AMD Geode processor. 486 at 133MHz.
[21:17] <nigelvh> 64 MB of ram.
[21:17] <fsphil> if you ever need another one, lemme know :)
[21:17] <nigelvh> I've got three. I think I'm good.
[21:18] <nigelvh> Work was dumping a few a number of years ago, so I grabbed 'em.
[21:18] <fsphil> nice
[21:18] <fsphil> I've no idea what to do with these
[21:18] <nigelvh> However, one of their new 6501s would be shiny.
[21:18] <mfa298> you could always try disposing of it on a HAB
[21:18] <fsphil> lol
[21:18] <nigelvh> Though kind of spendy for what it is.
[21:18] <fsphil> mine had been used for a vpn
[21:19] <nigelvh> I had been using one of mine for that too, but I recently got my RouterBoard which takes care of that now.
[21:19] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5800565
[21:20] <anerDev> Guys, this is good for receive the signal than the USB dongle ?
[21:20] <anerDev> baofeng uv3
[21:20] <fsphil> assuming you're using RTTY, you'll need a receiver that can do SSB
[21:20] <mfa298> anerDev: I don't think that will do ssb
[21:20] <fsphil> baofeng's are only FM
[21:21] <nigelvh> AFSK RTTY would work.
[21:21] <anerDev> GRRRR :@@@
[21:21] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: no . at the start of the script path.
[21:21] <fsphil> not looked at cosycave?
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[21:22] <ibanezmatt13> sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean
[21:22] <fsphil> https://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=104
[21:22] <mfa298> you have nohup ./home/pi/MATT-1.py &
[21:22] <mfa298> you want nohup /home/pi/MATT-1.py &
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[21:23] <fsphil> I'd suggest not starting the .py file directly on startup
[21:23] <fsphil> but start a bash script that runs it
[21:23] <fsphil> in a loop
[21:23] <anerDev> fsphil yes, looked at cosycave
[21:23] <mfa298> the . like that is a way of showing the current directory. Starting with a / means it's a complete path
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[21:23] <ibanezmatt13> ah I see, that makes sense when running programs in home directory
[21:23] <anerDev> fsphil perfect this ! RTL2832U/E4000
[21:24] <anerDev> another question, I'm searching a portable radio like the baofeng
[21:24] <anerDev> any idea ?
[21:24] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, I will have a look at making a bash script for it at some point. Would a bash script be able to execute more than one program at once?
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[21:24] <arko> fsphil: yeah doppler shift for anything in orbit is crazy
[21:25] <anerDev> NO NO NO !!!! the website is close We will resume normal operations on 1st July
[21:25] <arko> did anyone ever make an ax.25 decoder for fl-dldigi
[21:25] <mfa298> anerDev: there's a list of radios that people have used on http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[21:25] <anerDev> they say ! -_____-
[21:27] <mfa298> people have suggested the Yupiteru MVT-7100 is good (I've still not done a side by side test with mine)
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[21:29] <anerDev> http://www.subito.it/audio-video/yupiteru-mvt-7100-taranto-61931310.htm
[21:29] <jcoxon> okay
[21:29] <anerDev> FOUND !
[21:29] <anerDev> 150 euro
[21:29] <jcoxon> radio slightly charged
[21:29] <jcoxon> lets try this again
[21:30] <mfa298> anerDev: you should be able to get it for less than that. I think I paid around £60 on ebay (70 euro)
[21:30] K9JKM (~chatzilla@c-67-184-171-11.hsd1.il.comcast.net) joined #highaltitude.
[21:30] <jcoxon> my fav is the ft790
[21:32] <arko> another pass coming overhead?
[21:32] <jcoxon> yeah but i have only just powered on
[21:32] <jcoxon> so no gps lock
[21:33] <jcoxon> typical
[21:33] <arko> http://www.n2yo.com/satellite/?s=25544
[21:33] <arko> oh look
[21:33] <arko> cool
[21:33] <arko> are you outside?
[21:34] <K9JKM> ISS was acive on 145.825 packet just a few minutes ago (QTH Chicago)
[21:34] <K9JKM> K9JKM]CQ,RS0ISS-4*,qAR,N4XS-3:=4211.29N/08827.08W-Greetings :-)
[21:34] <K9JKM> K9JKM]CQ,RS0ISS-4*,qAR,N4XS-3::KE7MHG-1 :Testing with DireWolf and UISS
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[21:34] <anerDev> I found yaesu ft 817 at 200 euro
[21:35] <arko> whats the max alt on this pass?
[21:35] <arko> looks like your window is going to be pretty small
[21:35] <Upu> I put IIS on Spacenear.us
[21:36] <arko> haha
[21:36] <jcoxon> without a lock this isn't really worth it
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[21:36] <arko> Upu that would be awesome
[21:36] <Upu> its there
[21:36] <Upu> sort of
[21:36] <Upu> whats its APRS call sign ?
[21:37] <arko> out of date tle?
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander_> evening arko
[21:37] <nigelvh> RS0ISS
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander_> and nigelvh
[21:37] <arko> hi lunar
[21:37] <nigelvh> Hody
[21:37] <nigelvh> Howdy*
[21:37] <Upu> not using APRS recently ?
[21:37] <arko> altitude of 35m
[21:37] <arko> awesome!
[21:37] <arko> haha :)
[21:37] <K9JKM> Both were active just a few minutes ago ... RS0ISS-4 and RS0ISS
[21:38] <Upu> hmm
[21:38] <Upu> why is APRS.fi saying 49 days ago
[21:38] <arko> does the iss self identify with position and alt on aprs?
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[21:39] <fsphil> don't believe so, think it's an addon
[21:39] <fsphil> to the website
[21:39] <arko> might be better to just plot based on the tle
[21:40] <K9JKM> ISS ID on 145.825 looks like
[21:40] <K9JKM> RS0ISS]CQ,qAR,EI7IG:]ARISS - International Space Station
[21:41] <fsphil> ah, I missed this pass
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[21:41] <fsphil> it's almost over
[21:41] <jcoxon> got a lock
[21:41] <jcoxon> system appears to be working
[21:41] <jcoxon> doesn't appear anything got through
[21:42] <arko> aw
[21:42] <jcoxon> never mind
[21:42] <arko> did you hear yourself?
[21:43] <fsphil> might need a different kind of antenna
[21:43] <jcoxon> my gnd station is decoding my packets
[21:43] <arko> nice
[21:43] <jcoxon> also i need to check that the packet is correct
[21:43] <K9JKM> www.ariss.net is the ARISS packet log
[21:43] <jcoxon> K9JKM, yeah watching that now
[21:43] <K9JKM> Kewl
[21:44] <jcoxon> i might try local aprs first
[21:44] <fsphil> oh they finally updated that page
[21:44] <K9JKM> This looks like it was a busy european pass ... I'm prolly down near the bottom of the log by now
[21:45] <fsphil> I see you
[21:45] <jcoxon> also for this low power system it probably doesn't benefit that i'm london
[21:45] <arko> Upu: http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FISS&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[21:45] <arko> aww only from yesterday
[21:45] <arko> nvm
[21:45] <arko> err last month
[21:45] <arko> heh
[21:46] <jcoxon> the other thing is i probably need my radio fully charge
[21:46] <jcoxon> suspect the power output will be dependent on batt V
[21:46] <Hes> I already implemented telemetry-based ISS plotting for aprs.fi in the winter, just didn't finish the interesting bits in the visualization
[21:46] <Hes> so it's not running in production...
[21:47] <Hes> Some folks are broadcasting ISS objects to the APRS-IS at times, but they're not of much use
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander_> hi S_Mark
[21:48] <S_Mark> hello Lunar_Lander_
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[21:49] <Lunar_Lander_> how's life?
[21:50] <iain_G4SGX> Evening guys. Got my NTX2 transmitting RTTY but its inverted, ie. I have to use LSB to receive on dl-flidgi. (Using resistor divider). I'm positive I'm outputting a high for every bit. Someone wanna illuminate me on what schoolboy error I've made?
[21:51] <anerDev> guys, I'm confused
[21:51] <anerDev> for receive the signail from the NTX we need an SSB receiver
[21:51] <anerDev> the ntx is a fm transmitter
[21:51] <anerDev> but the ssb is the AM modulation ?
[21:52] <S_Mark> good thanks!
[21:53] <fsphil> iain_G4SGX: might be worth writing a really simple program that slowly toggles the pin
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[21:53] <fsphil> and gives you time to verify with a multimeter
[21:54] <iain_G4SGX> I've stuck it on a scope., 1 stoop bit, (low), 7 data bits and 2 sops bits(high)
[21:54] <fsphil> the stop bit is high
[21:54] <fsphil> ah typo
[21:54] <fsphil> yea the start bit is low
[21:55] <mfa298> anerDev: it's to do with the way the NTX2 is used. by feeding it a steady voltage it outputs a carrier on a single frequency, two different voltages gives a moving carrier which is FSK (used by rtty)
[21:55] <fsphil> when not transmitting, is it sending out the higher frequency?
[21:56] <fsphil> well it is, I mean does it sound right?
[21:56] <mfa298> almost everytime I go to a rally / radio shop I buy more connectors, yet when I try and connect two cables I still don't have the right connector for the two ends.
[21:56] <mfa298> how is that possible ???
[21:56] <fsphil> I'm sure that's a fundimental law of the universe
[21:56] <mfa298> probably
[21:57] <fsphil> each time you get an adaptor, someone somewhere is inventing a new connector
[21:57] <anerDev> thank u mfa298
[21:57] <mfa298> probably means my rtl pigtail has the wrong sort of bnc on it
[21:57] <anerDev> I'm searching a portable radio
[21:58] <anerDev> I put "430 mhz ssb" is correct ?
[21:58] <jcoxon> okay cool so my packets get through on the local aprs
[21:58] <mfa298> anerDev: you'll probably do best searching for particular models.
[21:59] <fsphil> if you're after a real radio, the smallest new one is probably the FT817
[21:59] <mfa298> if you want a search term try "70cm multimode"
[21:59] <fsphil> but the price will make you sad :)
[22:00] <mfa298> the MVT-7100 is probably the cheapest option you'll find for a reasonable and small reciever
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander_> btw Upu still there?
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[22:03] <anerDev> this is my problem: I broke my Ezcap usb dongle because I put 12 V for one second, for test the led power thhat I mounted
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[22:04] <anerDev> now, a similar usb dongle cost 20 £, but if with a 100 euro I buy a portable radio or a normal desk radio
[22:04] <anerDev> I will buy, because is much better than the usb dongle, or no ?
[22:04] <anerDev> used or new
[22:04] <anerDev> radio
[22:05] <fsphil> a real radio will be better yea
[22:05] <anerDev> but i need max in 8 days ! Because I have the high school exam
[22:05] <anerDev> !
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[22:06] <mfa298> some of the recommended radios are only available used (MVT-7100 isn't sold new any more). The others (like the FT-817) can be really expensive new so used is cheaper (although can still be a fair bit)
[22:07] <anerDev> i found a YAESU FT-76 used at 150 euro
[22:07] <anerDev> is good '
[22:08] <mfa298> looks like it's FM only
[22:08] <mfa298> most handhelds are FM, there's very few that are multmode
[22:09] <anerDev> grrr
[22:09] <mfa298> if you really meant the FT-76 150 euro sounds very expensive for that.
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[22:10] <anerDev> but Ft-76 is only fm, I don't buy this (because don't receive ssb)
[22:11] <anerDev> so, for tonight stop searching
[22:11] <mfa298> The only radio's I've used that size that would work are the MVT-7100 and the Kenwood TH-F7E (Both listed on the wiki page I linked to earlier)
[22:12] <mfa298> I think there was a fairly recent Yaesu handheld that was multimode recieve but I can't remember it's model number.
[22:12] <anerDev> tomorrow I will ask to my friend If they have a radio for lend to me
[22:13] <mfa298> The Kenwood TH-F7E isn't as good at recieving as some of the other options on the wiki.
[22:13] <anerDev> mfa298 the problem is one: this model can't find on ebay or similar site ! :/
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> I keep wondering about range for FM for receiving payloads
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> It's going to be a small fraction.
[22:13] <anerDev> i'm very unlucky, on ebay can't find a usb dongle
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> And clearly it's going to need DC recovery, but there should be some signal
[22:13] <anerDev> :///
[22:14] <mfa298> anerDev: can you try ebay sites for other countries. When I've looked there are usually lots of radios on ebay.co.uk some of which will probably ship to the rest of europe
[22:15] <anerDev> stupid ebay, why put the field "international" and if I go to other national ebay I found what don't found in my national ebay ?
[22:15] <fsphil> SpeedEvil: faster baud rates should be easier?
[22:16] <anerDev> wait wait
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[22:16] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: probably
[22:16] <Willdude123> Evening.
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[22:16] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: wider capture bandwidth does bad things to noise of course
[22:16] <fsphil> indeed
[22:16] <mfa298> that said the three mvt-7100s on ebay.co.uk that are on auction seem to be post to UK only
[22:16] <anerDev> but can I use 144 MHz radio with 433 MHz antenna for receive the signal ? (is a stupid question)
[22:16] <Willdude123> Urgh. School tomorrow.
[22:17] <Tommo> anerDev have you tried searching eBay using R820T ?
[22:17] <mfa298> the radio will need to be 434MHz. The antenna could be 144MHz (a lot of magmounts cover both as they're harmonically linked)
[22:17] <Willdude123> I have a messed up school.
[22:18] <Tommo> this one is post to Europe http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OVS9-RTL-SDR-FM-DAB-DVB-T-Dongle-Stick-RTL2832-R820T-SPC-0155-/190855889353?pt=UK_Computing_Video_Capture_TV_Tuner_Cards&hash=item2c6fe5c1c9
[22:18] <anerDev> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OVS4-RTL-SDR-FM-DAB-DVB-T-Dongle-Stick-RTL2832-R820T-SPC-0155-/400509274698?pt=UK_Computing_Video_Capture_TV_Tuner_Cards&hash=item5d40368a4a
[22:18] <anerDev> same !
[22:18] <Willdude123> Everyone is taking the piss about the physics video I did a while ago.
[22:19] <anerDev> Tommo is perfect ! I will buy tomorrow
[22:19] <anerDev> and I will change the mini sma connecotr !
[22:21] <Willdude123> Mfa298: Do you go to Nadars?
[22:22] <mfa298> I went to the rally but not part of the club. It's a bit to far for me to go.
[22:22] <anerDev> Today I make this http://imgur.com/D0jJRnG
[22:22] <anerDev> is wonderful, but I broke the usb, putting 12 V for test the led ! -___-
[22:23] <Willdude123> Trying to get a better aerial at some point. I'm attending the next meeting on aerials for small gardens.
[22:24] <fsphil> they may only be covering HF antennas
[22:24] <mfa298> Willdude123: you could try making a slightly larger version of the one Upu made.
[22:25] <Willdude123> Indeed I could, but I'm looking at more than just 0.7/2m
[22:25] <Willdude123> Looking at a discone.
[22:25] <fsphil> those are pretty poor at every frequency
[22:25] <mfa298> what other things do you want to try recieving ?
[22:26] <fsphil> wideband antennas are a compromise
[22:26] <fsphil> usually a bad one
[22:26] Action: bertrik received an image from the NOAA-15 weather satellite using a discone this weekend
[22:27] <mfa298> I've heard it said you can achieve 2 out of 3 for: frequency range, gain, compact size.
[22:27] <mfa298> and that generally seems to be true.
[22:29] <mfa298> hmmm, why is it that having setup the software to try getting adsb data there's now no planes overhead.
[22:30] <mfa298> Willdude123: what is it you want to try listening to ?
[22:30] <fsphil> or there are planes overhead, that they don't want you to see :)
[22:30] Action: mfa298 looks out the window at the black helicopters
[22:30] <Willdude123> Various repeaters.
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[22:31] <mfa298> now where's my tin foil hat :p
[22:31] <Willdude123> Actually, looks like many are on 2m. Meh
[22:31] <mfa298> Willdude123: I was meaning the stuff that's not in 2m/70cm
[22:31] <fsphil> repeaters are 2m or 70cm
[22:31] <fsphil> a 2m/70cm antenna will also be pretty good at receiving everything in-between
[22:32] <Willdude123> Err
[22:32] <fsphil> no worse than a discone certainly
[22:32] <mfa298> certainly for airband / marine band a 2/70 white stick will do a decent job.
[22:32] <Willdude123> Are dipoles directional?
[22:33] <mfa298> depends how it's mounted
[22:33] <mfa298> if it's vertical it's omni directional and chances are most of what you want to listen to is vertical polarisation
[22:34] <mfa298> although other metal nearby (e.g. a mast it's mounted on) can affect it a bit
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[22:34] <fsphil> directional is a pain for a general antenna -- you'd need to be able to move it
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[22:35] <mfa298> a dipole works in a very similar way to the ground plane antenna you got from Upu
[22:35] <Willdude123> The diamond x-50 is a dipole is it?
[22:35] <fsphil> it's a colinear
[22:35] <Willdude123> All these terms.
[22:35] <Willdude123> :-)
[22:35] <fsphil> yep :)
[22:35] <Willdude123> I am getting really confused.
[22:35] <fsphil> there are no shortage of antenna types
[22:35] <Willdude123> I might look into the x 50
[22:35] <fsphil> though there tend to be main groups
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[22:36] <mfa298> something like that should do a good job. Especially if you could get it mounted as high up as possible on the side of the house.
[22:37] <mfa298> And the neighbours probably wouldn't even notice it. People tend to be fairly un-observant.
[22:37] <fsphil> they're not obvious until you have two
[22:37] <fsphil> then everyone notices them
[22:38] <mfa298> and probably then compains that ever since you put it up their TV hasn't worked even though there's no coax on them yet.
[22:38] <fsphil> lol
[22:39] <nigelvh> I had a neighbor come to me thinking my ham stuff was blocking her wifi in the mornings. Except I hadn't used it in a few weeks. Turns out it was comcast...
[22:39] <nigelvh> When is it ever NOT comcast?
[22:39] <fsphil> I can't blame comcast
[22:39] <nigelvh> 'MERIKUH
[22:39] <nigelvh> Blaming comcast.
[22:39] <fsphil> suppose I can blame BT instead
[22:40] <nigelvh> There you go.
[22:40] <fsphil> my dog barks at night, BTs fault
[22:40] <nigelvh> Obviously
[22:40] <mfa298> I've heard that told as a story - although in a slightly longer form, where they got the person to look at their TV antenna and agree that having coax to the antenna was a required part and that the antennas he had up didn't have coax on them yet.
[22:40] <anerDev> good night guys
[22:40] <Willdude123> What are you actually supposed to do when people say that?
[22:40] <fsphil> nite anerDev
[22:40] <anerDev> I very hope that tomorrow I will find a friend with an 430 Mhz Lsb radio
[22:41] <fsphil> just say it isn't plugged in
[22:41] <fsphil> or, that yea you knew because you overheard their phone call
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[22:41] <nigelvh> I don't know what the laws are in the UK, but in the US hams are licensed users of the spectrum, so generally avoid making interference, and be friendly, but you don't have to fix their crappy stuff for them.
[22:41] <fsphil> maybe not that last one
[22:42] <fsphil> yep
[22:42] <fsphil> it's pretty much the same here
[22:42] <mfa298> dogs barking being BTs fault reminds me of this story: http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=74;t=001085;p=0
[22:42] <Willdude123> Oh god, the diamond x-50 is very expensive.
[22:42] <fsphil> try the watson w-50
[22:42] <Willdude123> Nobody has one they could mail me do they? :-) :-)
[22:42] <fsphil> it's basically the same thing
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[22:43] <Willdude123> 7quid cheaper
[22:43] <fsphil> yay
[22:43] <fsphil> there are smaller lower gain ones too
[22:43] <fsphil> W-30?
[22:43] <Willdude123> Difference?
[22:43] <Willdude123> Oh
[22:43] <Willdude123> :-)
[22:44] <Willdude123> £9 cheaper
[22:44] <Willdude123> Jesus
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[22:45] <fsphil> man these things all come with SO-239s
[22:46] <mfa298> lolz, the first no shop result for watson w-50 is ali (although no obvious mention of HAB on his site)
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[22:49] <mfa298> Willdude123: there are designs for antennas you can make as well requireing differing levels of skill. Simple Dipole or colinear shouldn't be too hard to make - although you'll want to make sure it's waterproof if it's going outside.
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[22:52] <Hix_> 2 samples of ADXL345 (triple-axis accelerometer) being shipped from Analog.
[22:52] <Elijah__> I like J-poles, really easy to fabricate out of copper pipe
[22:52] Action: Hix_ likes the free sample business
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[23:32] <SpeedEvil> You store it as hot water, in a hot water tank.
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> oops
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[00:00] --- Tue Jun 18 2013