highaltitude.log.20130616

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[00:14] <VK5KX_Peter> Darkside: Cowra huh, flat battery now??
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[01:06] <jcoxon> Horus still up?
[01:07] <arko> maybe
[01:07] <arko> but it died
[01:07] <Darkside> it was on ascent when it failed
[01:07] <arko> schodingers hab
[01:08] <Darkside> so it would have likely burst
[01:10] Action: jcoxon is on a night shift
[01:10] <jcoxon> time to head back to work
[01:11] <arko> have fun!
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[02:17] <Darkside> WHAT
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[02:22] <Darkside> someone in sydney thinks they can hear it
[02:22] <Dan-K2VOL> swesome
[02:23] <Darkside> im not usre on that though
[02:23] <Darkside> i cant hear it on the sudney globaltuner
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[02:28] <shenki> Darkside: get them to record the audio (assuming they can't decode it, we might be able to extract some packets later)
[02:29] <Darkside> yup
[02:38] <Dan-K2VOL> hey darkside, are your laws in AUS similar to UK or ICAO/US?
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[03:21] <Darkside> Carlo: hey
[03:21] <Darkside> VK5QI here
[03:21] <Carlo> Hiya..
[03:21] <Darkside> its possible the payload is in a reboot loop
[03:21] <Darkside> so when it turns on the transmitter, the battery voltage drops too low and it resets
[03:22] <Carlo> ah ha! So that is encouraging, I was worried I had been hearing things...
[03:22] <Darkside> a friend in newcastle thought he could hear a few beeps
[03:22] <Darkside> like, 3 beeps, then nothing for a few seconds
[03:22] <Carlo> If its still in the air do you have any educated guess as to its location?
[03:23] <Darkside> hm
[03:23] <Darkside> lemme run a prediction
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[03:26] <Darkside> hmm predictions being a pain
[03:26] <Darkside> hold o
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[03:28] <Darkside> Carlo: posibly out to sea
[03:28] <Darkside> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/14804_trj001.gif
[03:28] <Darkside> or possily directly over sydney
[03:31] <Carlo> hrmm. ok.
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[03:34] <Carlo> My antenna has direct line of sight out over the ocean, where that prediction would have had it.
[03:35] <Darkside> dont forget it is also up
[03:35] <Darkside> so it may be in the vertical null if your antenna
[03:36] <Carlo> yeah thats true..
[03:39] <Carlo> I will keep listening for the next 30 minutes or so, if I hear anything I will yell out. It's great that it made it so far with out any issues. Next time!! :)
[03:40] <Darkside> thanks
[03:41] <VK1KW> I am re-looking also
[03:41] <Darkside> thanks VK1KW
[03:41] <Darkside> it may just be a series of beeps
[03:45] <VK1KW> there are a couple of lpd in use around here too
[03:46] <Darkside> yeah
[03:46] <Darkside> next time i do one of these i'll move it outside the LIPD band
[03:46] <Darkside> might put it down around 432
[03:47] <VK1KW> was an excellent signal when it got up past the trees here - magic - well done
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[03:49] <Darkside> VK1KW: only 25mW
[03:49] <Darkside> but line of sight :-)
[03:49] <Darkside> i'll probably do another launch soon enough
[03:49] <Darkside> maybe next weekend
[03:49] <VK1KW> ONLY 25mW :>) wooow
[03:50] <Darkside> 25mW works fine for 50 baud RTTY when you have LOS :-)
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[03:52] <VK1KW> I have SpectrumLab running on the downlink freq - nothing yet
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[03:56] <Carlo> If you do one next week I will activate our club rig, we just installed a really nice 70cm antenna and we are on the highest point of sydney.
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[04:00] <VK1KW> cheers all - closing
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[06:32] <vk6qi> Team Horus: I have bits and pieces of decoded data from the last 7 1/2 hours of Picohorus 3 flight, if it's of any use to you (don't know if you can get the valid strings from the web server?). Mail to mark.bosma@pacific.net.au if you want the data.
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[06:34] <Darkside> vk6qi: i'm really only interested in the last bit
[06:35] <Darkside> like, just as it failed
[06:35] <Darkside> and i have that already from VK1OD
[06:36] <Upu> can we clear tracker shortly Darkside ?
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[06:39] <Darkside> Upu: ok
[06:39] <Darkside> lemme grab a screenshot
[06:40] <Darkside> done
[06:41] <steve_____> ha - so I see my friends and family in Taranaki may be useful after all ;)
[06:42] <steve_____> Its halfway there http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/14804_trj001.gif
[06:43] <steve_____> It's a shame I don't know anyone with the right equipment to track ...
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[06:53] <steve_____> Does anyone know approximately what time XABEN will be flying post says this afternoon but no more details
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[07:11] <mfa298> Morning all
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[07:12] <Willdude123> Good morning people.
[07:13] <mfa298> morning Willdude123
[07:13] <mfa298> this is way to early to be up on a Sunday
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[07:46] <nigelvh> Evening
[07:46] <number10> morning
[07:46] <nigelvh> How's it going over there?
[07:48] <number10> fine nigelvh
[07:49] <number10> I think steve is planning a launch today
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[07:50] <number10> the tracker seems to be cleared faily quickly last few launches - I was interested to see how HORUS ended up
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[07:51] <nigelvh> Generally people post a "post-flight" to the mailing list.
[07:51] <Darkside> number10: http://i.imgur.com/TFbyPqG.jpg
[07:52] <number10> yes, xaben has been announced
[07:52] <number10> thanks Darkside
[07:53] <Upu> batteries died sadly
[07:53] <nigelvh> :(
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[07:54] <cn8dn> please code
[07:54] <cn8dn> Linking an Arduino to a Radiometrix NTX2
[07:54] <cn8dn> rtty
[07:54] <Upu> you want the link to it ?
[07:55] <nigelvh> Nice, zeusbot delivers this time!
[08:02] <cn8dn> ok arduino uno
[08:02] <cn8dn> 5v
[08:02] <cn8dn> gnd
[08:03] <cn8dn> txd ?
[08:04] <nigelvh> Can you please phrase it in the form of a question?
[08:04] <arko> i'll take 200 alex
[08:04] <nigelvh> Complete sentences for 1000.
[08:04] <arko> haha
[08:04] <arko> wonder if the uk folks got that
[08:05] <nigelvh> I might guess so. Jeopardy is fairly big.
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[08:11] <arko> http://lego.gizmodo.com/lego-will-make-a-mars-curiosity-rover-set-513633690
[08:11] <arko> yessssss
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[08:18] <G4MYS_Andy> Morning all!
[08:18] <SpeedEvil> morning
[08:18] <SpeedEvil> perhaps
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[08:28] <g0hww> g'day. launches from cambridge again today?
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[08:30] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning :)
[08:31] <ibanezmatt13> Anybody know where I can get a ribbon cable? One with a 26 way header that can go onto the Pi GPIO? https://www.dropbox.com/s/umkk0gzvrgllady/photo%20%281%29.JPG
[08:32] <ibanezmatt13> I was supposed to be cutting one of the ends off and stupidly I cut off the end with the 26 way connector!
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[08:34] <ibanezmatt13> Nevermind, I've found one at Maplins
[08:41] <ibanezmatt13> Apparently, only one store in the country have a GPIO cable, and even they only have one; surely that's not right. It is Maplin...
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[08:47] <ibanezmatt13> Morning Hix
[08:48] <Hix> hi ibanezmatt13
[08:48] <ibanezmatt13> What's the bet that Maplin do have a GPIO cable even though their website states that only one store in the country has one
[08:48] <ibanezmatt13> ?
[08:49] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: your old floppy cables
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[08:49] <ibanezmatt13> The ones which I have destroyed
[08:49] <SpeedEvil> a 26 way ide cable, a length of ribbon cable
[08:50] <SpeedEvil> you can remove the connector and replace it on the wire
[08:50] <ibanezmatt13> So it has a 26 way header?
[08:50] <SpeedEvil> carefully inspect the latches, and use a screwdriver to pry them open
[08:50] <SpeedEvil> I forget, check
[08:51] <number10> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raspberry-Pi-GPIO-Interface-26-way-Ribbon-Cable-F-F-Connect-to-Breakout-Board-/200910417189?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&var=&hash=item2ec731ad25 ibanezmatt13
[08:51] <ibanezmatt13> https://www.dropbox.com/s/umkk0gzvrgllady/photo%20%281%29.JPG My initial plan was to cut the "right" end off that and just solder the wires I needed onto the stripboard
[08:51] Action: g0hww has an hf antenna made from ribbon cable. a NORCAL doublet. worked Lithuania on 6m with it.
[08:51] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks number10, although I was wondering if it was possible to pick one up from a store today
[08:52] <number10> its sunday
[08:52] <SpeedEvil> not everywhere
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
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[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> That ide cable looks like it'd be hard to fit onto the Pi's GPIO
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[08:53] <SpeedEvil> you can cut off the end of the connector
[08:53] <SpeedEvil> carefully
[08:53] <Relz> anyone here from the HABLAB launch today?
[08:53] <SpeedEvil> you do need to glue it down
[08:54] <ibanezmatt13> sounds a bit fidly for me
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[08:55] <SpeedEvil> it's really not, if you've got better coordination than a 3 year old.
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[08:56] <ibanezmatt13> what type of glue?
[08:57] <SpeedEvil> youthfully
[08:57] <SpeedEvil> err, hot melt
[08:57] <ibanezmatt13> so I need a hot glue gun?
[08:58] <SpeedEvil> no
[08:58] <SpeedEvil> glue stick and lighter
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[08:58] <SpeedEvil> I tend to rarely use ,my glue gun
[08:58] <SpeedEvil> with a lighter, you can get gluing a minute earlier
[08:59] <SpeedEvil> rotate the stick in an intermittent flame
[08:59] <eroomde> why not just start a log fire
[09:00] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, sounds good but I'm pretty sure I'd bodge it. I'm going down to Maplin anyway in an hour so if they've not got anything at all, I'll do that. Thanks
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[09:02] <iain_G4SGX> How did Horus go last night? Looked like a good float. Did it burst before it left Australia?
[09:03] <shenki> iain_G4SGX: it went flat as the sun came up, so we don't know its fate
[09:04] <shenki> some people in sydney could hear some tones mid-morning, but Darkside thinks that it was in a reset loop: as the transmitter was keyed up, the battery would die, so it didn't get much out
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[09:04] <Lunar_Lander> morning
[09:06] <shenki> i played with matplotlib thismorning: https://jms.id.au/~joel/picohorus3-plot-4.png
[09:06] <iain_G4SGX> shenki: Great, all good data. Successful pico float though which is good.
[09:07] <shenki> iain_G4SGX: yep, and that was the goal, so in that sense it was a success
[09:10] <Hix> morning Lunar_Lander
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[09:10] <jdtanner> Morning.
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[09:11] Nick change: M0JSN -> jonsowman
[09:13] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[09:13] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
[09:13] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[09:20] <steve_____> Does anyone here know of an online generator for the PUBX CRC checksums?
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[09:22] <fsphil> http://www.lammertbies.nl/comm/info/crc-calculation.html
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[09:23] <fsphil> actually no
[09:23] <fsphil> http://www.hhhh.org/wiml/proj/nmeaxor.html
[09:25] <steve_____> cool :)
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[09:25] <steve_____> how did you find that?
[09:26] <fsphil> google :)
[09:26] <steve_____> go go google
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[09:37] <steve_____> Its not a CRC checksum is it fsphil ...
[09:37] <steve_____> the second link is exactly what I was after though thanks
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[09:45] <Hix> could someone explain the following code please?
[09:45] <Hix> / Construct the request to the GPS
[09:45] <Hix> uint8_t request[8] = { 0xB5, 0x62, 0x01, 0x06, 0x00, 0x00,
[09:45] <Hix> 0x07, 0x16};
[09:46] <Hix> I know it is a NAV-SOL request in UBX but the header is 0xB5 0x62 and the ID is 0x01 0x06
[09:46] <Maxell> Hmm, 1500 UTC will be the next launch? :)
[09:46] <Hix> just can't work out what the rest is?
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[09:47] <steve_____> 0x06 0x01 = a CFG-MSG
[09:48] <LeoBodnar> Hix, This is the request for NAV-SOL response. To request a particular message you send the request with no data and Length field = 0x0000
[09:48] <LeoBodnar> Two last bytes are Checksum
[09:49] <Hix> ah, ok. was reading the protocol spdf and getting confuzzled
[09:50] <LeoBodnar> Page 86: There is not a single specific message which polls any other message. The UBX protocol was designed such, that when sending a message with no payload (or just a single parameter which identifies the poll request) the message is polled
[09:51] <Hix> this would be about the time I moved onto learning about bit banging then i guess :)
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[09:56] <jdtanner> If I'm honest, the only thing that really bakes my noodle is the UBlox protocol :P
[09:56] <Hix> I've made a pact with myself to not open eagle when the coding gets confusing for once
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[09:56] <eroomde> eagle is fun tho
[09:57] <Hix> not when you're supposed to be learning code though
[09:57] <Hix> I've got more pcb designs than i have anything to make them work :)
[09:58] <eroomde> learning code is fun
[09:58] <eroomde> it's all fun
[09:58] <eroomde> 250GB ssd from samsung for £108
[09:58] <eroomde> yussss
[09:58] <Hix> sweet, good deal - for the thinkpad?
[09:58] <bertrik> nice
[09:58] <eroomde> yes for the thinkpad
[09:58] <eroomde> modern but not the absolute fastest
[09:59] <eroomde> but it's going into sataII rather than sataIII so it'll still saturate it
[09:59] <eroomde> so it completely ticks the boxes
[10:00] <Hix> which model pad did you get?
[10:00] <eroomde> x200s
[10:00] <Hix> SSD is the fewteeer
[10:00] <eroomde> with the 1440x900 screen
[10:00] <eroomde> rather than 1280xwhatever it was
[10:00] <Hix> I've got the X201, similar
[10:00] <eroomde> basically i was going to get an x61
[10:00] <Hix> though no external monitor, so somewhat limiting
[10:00] <eroomde> but kinda wanted sataII (x61 is sata1) and kinda wanted the vertical resolution
[10:00] <eroomde> so that fit the bill
[10:01] <eroomde> doesn;t it have vga?
[10:01] <Hix> yes, i dont have a monitor though
[10:01] <eroomde> oh right
[10:01] <Hix> stuck with 1280x800
[10:01] <Hix> :/
[10:01] <eroomde> can you fit eagle in?
[10:01] <Hix> ish
[10:01] <Hix> scroll wheel is my friend with eagle :)
[10:02] <eroomde> i have a pair of 242 monitors at work and a big powerful box which i normally use for the big stuff
[10:02] <eroomde> on my macbook air 11" eagle's vertical button menu doesn;t quite fit in
[10:02] <Hix> along with a fancy DSO and speakers and the obligatory rule ;p
[10:02] <eroomde> ratsnest and DRC go under the fold
[10:02] <eroomde> thew fancy DSO is in the lab now
[10:03] <eroomde> we are pining for a ZVL
[10:03] <Hix> I'm not falling into your trap of opening eagle eroomde :)
[10:03] <eroomde> which is a vector network analyser and spectrum analyser and power meter
[10:03] <eroomde> with a battery
[10:03] <Hix> i can see what you were doing there :)
[10:03] <eroomde> it's basically a really nice thing for any rf work
[10:03] <eroomde> http://www.rohde-schwarz.com/en/product/zvl-productstartpage_63493-9014.html
[10:04] <eroomde> i really really really want one of those
[10:04] <eroomde> really
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[10:09] <Martin_G4FUI> yep use one of those for my work
[10:11] <Martin_G4FUI> Lightest network analyser ever
[10:12] <eroomde> they're great arenlt they
[10:12] <eroomde> apart from windows
[10:12] <mattbrejza> but if it has a built in power meter you wont have the fun task of connecting an external power meter via gpib and running a vba script to cal the device...
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[10:13] <Martin_G4FUI> yes, embedded windows xp, but seems reliable enough and doesn't break your back like the Agilent ones
[10:13] <eroomde> indeed
[10:13] <eroomde> we borrowed one last year and i did like it
[10:14] <eroomde> but didn;t really have the cash lying around to justify it just because it was nice
[10:14] <Martin_G4FUI> yes, you don't get many to a £
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[10:14] <eroomde> but i think we possibly can justify it now
[10:14] <eroomde> need to do quite a lot of custom antenna stuff for a difficult environement
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[10:18] <Martin_G4FUI> Just the job and easy on bench space
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[10:19] <Martin_G4FUI> and I have found R&S customer support to be very good
[10:22] <eroomde> oh very much
[10:22] <eroomde> we have a R&S rep who visits us very often
[10:22] <eroomde> with loaners
[10:22] <eroomde> we are small fry for him but he just likes what we do
[10:22] <eroomde> and i know for sure that if something went wrong with something we'd got from him then he'd get in his car and be over within a day
[10:23] <Martin_G4FUI> Yes, they are a nice company to deal with, they look after their customers well
[10:23] <Martin_G4FUI> No I don't work for them !
[10:24] <eroomde> :)
[10:24] <eroomde> but yes their stuff is great and their support is great
[10:24] <Martin_G4FUI> I don't suppose you remember the Polyskop?
[10:24] <eroomde> we built a gps receiver just for shiggles but also for some projects
[10:25] <eroomde> and when we showed it to him when he popped in for coffee he turned up a couple of days later with one of their sig-gens which does GPS (among everything else)
[10:25] <eroomde> just so we could have a play
[10:25] <eroomde> left it with us for a couple of weeks
[10:26] <Martin_G4FUI> He will reap the benefits of that gesture somewhere down the line ...
[10:26] <eroomde> well indeed - the reason i want to ZVL is because he leant one to us last year
[10:26] <eroomde> lent*
[10:27] <Martin_G4FUI> I won't be tracking after today for a wee while as we're heading off for some R&R in sunnier climes
[10:27] <eroomde> i have no idea what the past participle of 'to lend' is
[10:27] <Martin_G4FUI> lent sounds good
[10:27] <Martin_G4FUI> better than lended
[10:27] <eroomde> well yes
[10:27] <eroomde> but i was briefly unsure
[10:27] <eroomde> which sunnier climbs are you heading to?
[10:27] <Martin_G4FUI> the joys of english grammar!
[10:28] <Martin_G4FUI> Italy
[10:28] <eroomde> oh nice
[10:28] <eroomde> that should do it
[10:28] <Martin_G4FUI> Contribute to their economy
[10:28] <Martin_G4FUI> sample their food and wine
[10:29] <eroomde> i'm contributing to their economy in july
[10:29] <eroomde> it's all very magnanimous you see
[10:29] <Martin_G4FUI> struggle with their language and grammar ...
[10:29] <Martin_G4FUI> Yes spread the Word
[10:30] <Martin_G4FUI> Bonhomie and all that
[10:30] <eroomde> i speak spanish
[10:30] <eroomde> accidently
[10:30] <eroomde> i have basically 0 italian
[10:31] <Martin_G4FUI> To be a polyglot is a gift
[10:31] <Hix> I wish i could pick up C as easily as human languages
[10:32] <Martin_G4FUI> I have a theory that children who are brought up in multilingual environments have an advantage over those who aren't
[10:32] <eroomde> it gets easier
[10:32] <eroomde> i suspect you're right
[10:32] <eroomde> they also get a free a-level or two
[10:32] <Hix> is it. slowly. I've grasped a lot more recently.
[10:33] <Martin_G4FUI> It promotes a kind of mental flexibility which serves them well in other non-language-related areas
[10:33] <LazyLeopard> Any foreign language I try to speak usually comes out as atrocious mangled Swahili...
[10:33] <eroomde> likewise music
[10:33] <Hix> I love language. everywhere I go, I try and pick up a few bits and bobs
[10:33] <eroomde> without sounding like a telegraph comment, i do think all kids should learn latin
[10:33] <Martin_G4FUI> I play music semi-professionally but my sight reading is atrocious
[10:33] <Hix> yup
[10:34] <eroomde> it is the best rosetta stone for visiting almost any european country
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[10:34] <Hix> my nephew dropped latin. I was disappointed. I never had the opportunity to learn it at school
[10:34] <eroomde> i no 0 italian but can usually figure most things out from a mix of school latin and french
[10:34] <LazyLeopard> ...much to the befuddlement of the French teachers at school.
[10:34] <Martin_G4FUI> Q. what did the Romans do for us? A. A hell of a lot!
[10:34] <eroomde> Martin_G4FUI: i wonder if that's a thing too
[10:34] <eroomde> my sight reading is *terrible*
[10:34] <LazyLeopard> Concrete.
[10:34] <eroomde> but i've always been quite musical
[10:35] <eroomde> my brain is optimised for sounds i think
[10:35] <eroomde> the way it remembers music is something i find fascinating as someone whose academic background was in machine learning
[10:36] <LazyLeopard> There are musicians who learn by ear, and musicians ho can relate dots and lines to sounds. They're different breeds.
[10:36] <Martin_G4FUI> Mine is more like that than for the visual senses - I like many kinds of music but I like pictures to "look like something"!
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[10:36] <eroomde> just how efficient the lookup is
[10:36] <bertrik> I've had lessons in latin for two years at school, can't say I've found it very useful
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[10:37] <eroomde> like i can annoy friends if i randomly switch the radio on and identify the piece of music just from one single chord
[10:37] <eroomde> but it just maps onto something really concrete in my head
[10:37] <eroomde> can;t do faces tho
[10:37] <Martin_G4FUI> I can't say I enjoyed latin at school, but then again I didn't enjoy history. I became a huge Time Team fan ...
[10:37] <m3eav> are these two going up or has nobody out test on them?
[10:37] <LazyLeopard> The former can often learn Morse fairly easily. The latter often have great trouble learning Morse. (Well, based on my sample of three...)
[10:37] <Martin_G4FUI> Arise Sir Baldrick!
[10:38] <Martin_G4FUI> I learned morse very easily when in my teens
[10:38] <eroomde> never learned morse
[10:38] <Martin_G4FUI> It's like riding a bike, a bit
[10:38] <eroomde> tried to, to show some willing at the uni ham club
[10:38] <eroomde> but i was really just there for the license to make my own circuits
[10:38] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[10:39] <Martin_G4FUI> At least these days you don't _have_ to learn it to get on in ham circles
[10:39] <eroomde> indeed
[10:39] <eroomde> i would have found that a bit tiresome
[10:40] <eroomde> but having the license has been very useful. it let my hobby turn into a job
[10:40] <Martin_G4FUI> That isn't always necessarily a Good Thing, but something similar happened to me, and on balance it worked out fairly well
[10:41] <eroomde> so far so good
[10:41] <eroomde> i work for a very small place that does all the things i was interested in (and did in a hobby capacity) at university
[10:41] <LazyLeopard> Aye. Morse was _the_ obstacle that kept me out of ham radio for decades.
[10:41] <Martin_G4FUI> It's good to have a hobby unrelated to the Day Job, which is more or less where the music fits in with me
[10:41] <Hix> Anyone in the south east hear an explosion or sonic boom a few minutes ago?
[10:41] <eroomde> what do you play?
[10:42] <eroomde> Hix: no?
[10:42] <number10> not in essex/suffolk hix
[10:42] <Hix> hmm, just felt and heard a bang, vibrated the walls
[10:42] <Martin_G4FUI> Guitar, bass, keyboards www.faginspocket.com
[10:42] <LazyLeopard> Hix: Nope
[10:42] <Hix> according to twitter heard as far away as Cambridge
[10:42] <Martin_G4FUI> None to a particularly high standard, but I usually get away with it!
[10:43] <Hix> lots of comments from muppets on twitter "omg it was like in my street wtf"
[10:43] <Hix> wondering if something got cleared to go supersonic in order to intercept
[10:43] <eroomde> Martin_G4FUI: i play (badly) the piano too
[10:43] <eroomde> i also conduct in the car to the detriment of everyone else on the road
[10:43] <Martin_G4FUI> :)
[10:44] <Martin_G4FUI> If I had my time over again I would love to be a record producer
[10:44] <m3eav> it was my chilli from last night...
[10:45] <Martin_G4FUI> m3eav no naked flames then :)
[10:45] <m3eav> lol
[10:45] <Martin_G4FUI> Right peeps, I'm going to mow the lawn as it's been dry for long enough now ...
[10:45] <eroomde> 10 minutes you mean
[10:46] <eroomde> i wonder what this explosion is
[10:46] <Martin_G4FUI> Been dry all morning here, but there was a deluge last night
[10:46] <Hix> about 11:37 eroomde
[10:46] <eroomde> seems to be herts/essex/cam/north london on the twitter
[10:46] <Hix> yup
[10:47] <Hix> it seemed too short for an actual explosion, I think sonic boom
[10:47] <Laurenceb__> IT WAS ME
[10:47] <Hix> hmm 1st credible rumour is gas explosion in Stevenage
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[10:48] <Hix> trollence
[10:48] <Laurenceb__> is my name
[10:48] <Hix> :)
[10:48] <Laurenceb__> troll by name, troll by nature
[10:48] <eroomde> i would have heard it by now if it was 11:37
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[10:49] <eroomde> would have taken bout 5 minutes to get here assuming NE london
[10:49] <eroomde> also if it was a sonic boom then i might not hear it at all unless it travelled over me
[10:50] <Hix> twitter is very good for breaking events
[10:51] <Laurenceb__> or exploding ones
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> Plot the timelines of the post with geography to get the wavefront.
[10:55] <steve_____> I didn't hear a thing in Camberley
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[10:56] <Phil_M0DNY> anyone at newbury for a ukhas meetup?
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[11:14] <eroomde> Hix: sonic boom
[11:14] <Hix> BBC Cambs have apparently had confirmation that is was a sonic boom http://goo.gl/qIrFJ
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[11:14] <eroomde> seems to be what police and fire have told everything
[11:14] <eroomde> everyone*
[11:14] <eroomde> wonder what that was for
[11:14] <Hix> obvoiusly not training as weekend
[11:15] <Hix> Eurofighter pilots not really known for having shiggles :)
[11:15] <eroomde> and a bit illegal
[11:16] <Hix> heh
[11:16] <Hix> good fun though, if you can
[11:16] <eroomde> heh, supersonic is for pedestrians :)
[11:16] <Hix> ohh, what does "Afterburn" do, lets try it and see
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[11:27] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFWeoxrhbE8
[11:27] <eroomde> i adore this character
[11:28] <eroomde> it's like my inner monologue
[11:31] <Upu> lol
[11:31] <number10> there was quite a lot of activity yesterday over east coast for a show I think http://imgur.com/a/OqwMg
[11:32] <Martin_G4FUI> I was out last night so lost the plot with HORUS - how did that end up?
[11:32] <Upu> batteries died
[11:32] <Martin_G4FUI> Interesing, the batteries outlived the RFM module, I guess that was somewhat unexpected?
[11:33] <Martin_G4FUI> Sorry I meant the othe way round :)
[11:33] <Upu> well the reason the batteries died was they were powering a resistor to keep the RFM warm :)
[11:33] <Martin_G4FUI> A classic case of design compromise ...
[11:33] <Upu> ping LeoBodnar there is a launch this afternoon so if you can go to offline mode at some point would appreciate it
[11:34] <LeoBodnar> I am off!
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[11:34] <Upu> ta
[11:34] <Martin_G4FUI> It was looking to me that the temp sensor hit an endstop at -28C
[11:34] <Hix> number10: https://www.facebook.com/northwealdairfield?fref=ts
[11:34] <Hix> Queens Brithday Flypast on Sat
[11:35] <Martin_G4FUI> What was the battery duration?
[11:36] <eroomde> Martin_G4FUI: do you ever work on old test equipment in addition to old radios?
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[12:06] <Hix> pretty cool aerial shot of Red Arrows from Met ASU Heli http://goo.gl/T688l
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[12:22] <cuddykid> looks like I've finally got my cutdown control mechanism sorted :)
[12:23] <Darkside> oh?
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[12:26] <cuddykid> just a mosfet working for once with me :D
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> :-)
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[12:57] <Willdude123> Just received a yaesu receiver.
[12:57] <Willdude123> Shame I can't turn the damn thing on.
[13:08] <chrisstubbs> Nice one WILLdude123!
[13:08] <chrisstubbs> what did you get?
[13:08] <Hix> Found a good resource for IMU based fun http://www.varesano.net/projects/hardware/FreeIMU
[13:09] <mfa298> How did you find the rally Willdude123
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[13:13] <ibanezmatt13> Good Afternoon :)
[13:13] <ibanezmatt13> I now have a new GPIO cable http://www.maplin.co.uk/gpio-cable-for-raspberry-pi-682482
[13:13] <ibanezmatt13> I'm ready to prepare it for my stripboard, but I just want to clarify what I should do because I really need to get this part tight
[13:13] <ibanezmatt13> right*
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[13:14] <chrisstubbs> wow for maplin thats a reasonable price
[13:14] <ibanezmatt13> So with this cable http://www.maplin.co.uk/gpio-cable-for-raspberry-pi-682482 I guess the first port of call is to cut one of the connectors off. Is that correct?
[13:14] <ibanezmatt13> not bad at all chrisstubbs
[13:15] <chrisstubbs> either that or you could use loads of header on the stripbioard, but for simplicity i would cut one end off
[13:15] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I'm not using a header on stripboard. So I cut one end off, and the idea is that I'll be soldering on the wires which I want to connect from the Pi?
[13:15] <chrisstubbs> yes
[13:16] <ibanezmatt13> How am I supposed to tell which wire is which pin?
[13:16] <ibanezmatt13> It's just 26 wires, no idea which goes to which pin
[13:16] <chrisstubbs> look online for the pinout of the gpio header of the pi
[13:16] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[13:16] <chrisstubbs> then use a multimeter on continuity/resistance mode to check what wire goes to what pin
[13:17] <chrisstubbs> after testing a few wires you will probably find there is a pattern
[13:17] <ibanezmatt13> How should I test the continuity?
[13:17] <ibanezmatt13> I mean, which pin should I connect the DMM to?
[13:18] <mfa298> if you stick the red cable at the pin 1 end you should find the red cable is pin1 (3v3), next cable is pin2 (5v) etc.
[13:18] <junderwood> You need to be a little careful cutting the cable it two. Some of those IDC cables are unsolderable
[13:19] <mfa298> If the cable is long enough I'd also cut it in half then you've got a second connector and cable ready for the next project.
[13:19] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, they're multi-stranded
[13:20] <ibanezmatt13> So shall I just cut one end off with normal scissors?
[13:20] <junderwood> I had one cable canibalised from a hard disk which looked OK (multistrand) but the solder jusr wouldn't flow.
[13:21] <ibanezmatt13> I'll try my best. So I'm definitely cutting one end off with scissors now?
[13:24] <chrisstubbs> junderwood, was it that funny plastic coated stuff they use in cheap headphones?
[13:24] <ibanezmatt13> I can't find a good pinout diagram for the Pi GPIO cable. So if I cut one connector off with some scissors will that be ok?
[13:25] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: I just tend to use the diagram at http://elinux.org/RPi_Low-level_peripherals#General_Purpose_Input.2FOutput_.28GPIO.29
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[13:25] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: I mean for this cable http://www.maplin.co.uk/gpio-cable-for-raspberry-pi-682482
[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> When I cut one of the connectors off, I then have 26 wires and I don't know what the pattern is
[13:26] <mfa298> If you pluged it in with the red wire at the pin1 end the red wire should go to to pin 1
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> Ah ok I see
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> So I'm definitely using scissors now to cut the end off?
[13:27] <mfa298> it's a fairly standard connector (or at least used to be)
[13:27] <qyx_> ibanezmatt13: why do you want to cut it off?
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> well I need to connect certain pins of the Pi's GPIO to some stripboard.
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[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> So, if I cut one end off, I can solder the wires I want onto the stripboard and keep the good connector for the pi
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> At least I think that's what I'm doing, is that right?
[13:28] <mfa298> sounds right.
[13:29] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'm cutting it now
[13:29] <ibanezmatt13> it's cut
[13:29] <mfa298> once you cut the end off you might want to check that what you think is pin 1 (based on the pi gpio diagram) is the red cable (if plugged in as I said earlier)
[13:30] <junderwood> chrisstubbs, no. The headphone stuff is usually enamelled - just needs a VERY hot soldering iron to make the solder flow
[13:30] <junderwood> not sure what this was
[13:30] <ibanezmatt13> red cable?
[13:31] <junderwood> pin 1 is frequently marked on the black connector with a small triangle
[13:31] <junderwood> and then it alternates across the cable
[13:31] <ibanezmatt13> yep, small triangle, it's a blue one
[13:32] <ibanezmatt13> those wires aren't easy to separate
[13:32] <junderwood> sharp knife on a block of wood is the easiest
[13:32] <Laurenceb__> wow
[13:32] <ibanezmatt13> never thought of that :)
[13:32] <Laurenceb__> lancaster + 2 spitfires just flew over
[13:32] <junderwood> BBMF
[13:32] <GMT> flew over where?
[13:33] <junderwood> not supposed to be displaying today
[13:33] <Laurenceb__> my house
[13:33] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: I'm a little confused as to where I should be putting this multimeter
[13:34] <Laurenceb__> interesting
[13:34] <Laurenceb__> wonder where they are off to
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[13:34] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: did you buy the grey cable with a red wire or the multicoloured cable ?
[13:34] <ibanezmatt13> multicolourer
[13:35] <ibanezmatt13> d*
[13:35] <mfa298> ah, I was assuming the grey one as that's what's in the picture
[13:35] <GMT> BBMF flypast at Sutton Bridge today
[13:35] <ibanezmatt13> it still has the triangle so I know which should be pin one, but I need to check really
[13:36] <ibanezmatt13> One part of multimeter to the wire end with no connector, the other part?
[13:36] <mfa298> the end wire where pin 1 is marked should be connected to pin1
[13:36] <GMT> BBMF also at Newark in Cambridgeshire this afternoon
[13:36] <mfa298> usually with those cables they're just grey with the end wire marked in red
[13:36] <ibanezmatt13> ah i see, I'll check now
[13:37] <mikestir> the multicoloured ones _should_ follow the resistor colour code for pin numbering
[13:38] <mikestir> so the first wire nearest the triangle ought to be brown
[13:38] <mikestir> but it is from maplin :)
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[13:39] <Willdude123> Hi.
[13:39] <Willdude123> Got my yaesu working.
[13:40] <mfa298> which yaesu have you got ?
[13:40] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: multimeter has confirmed pattern; I know which one is which now
[13:40] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: yay!
[13:40] <ibanezmatt13> now then...
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[13:41] <Willdude123> A frg 965.
[13:41] <Willdude123> Sorry I didn't see you or dave at the rally.
[13:41] <ibanezmatt13> I've had a thought. We were talking about not powering the Pi from the test points and powering from the header instead. Which part of the GPIO would I need to power the Pi from?
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[13:42] <mfa298> spotting anyone you know at the rally is a challege. I only found the group I was meeting there after talking on the radio
[13:42] <mfa298> what did you make of the rally ?
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[13:42] <Willdude123> I thought it was really cool.
[13:43] <Willdude123> I'm slightly confused on how to use it.
[13:43] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: I think you can feed 5v into the 5v pin on the header if you're doing it that way - I've not checked it myself though.
[13:43] <mfa298> Willdude123: you can probably find a manual for it online
[13:43] <ibanezmatt13> I don't think I'm using the 5v pin for anything else so that's good
[13:44] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, so I'm gonna solder the Pi's 3.3v pin now to a rail on the stripboard which creates the voltage divider for the NTX2. Am I correct?
[13:44] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: that sounds good
[13:44] <ibanezmatt13> ok, back soon :) thanks
[13:45] <GMT> Willdude, you can always look for a manual for an FRG-9600
[13:45] <mfa298> Willdude123: you probably need to press the mode button to cycle through FM/AM/USB/LSB etc. and there's probably a button to select the band
[13:46] <Willdude123> Hmm
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[13:46] <Willdude123> Wondering if it'll scan for channels or if I have to do it manually.
[13:47] <mfa298> Or you might just need to enter the rough frequency in on the keypad
[13:47] <chrisg7ogx> broke my FCD Pro Plus (sniff)
[13:47] <Willdude123> Yeah you do.
[13:47] <mfa298> (just realised it's more of a wide band scanner for vhf/uhf rather than just ham bands)
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[13:48] <GMT> I used to have a '9600 ... I think you have to load all the freqs into memories before you can scan
[13:50] <Relz> how you break the funcube?
[13:50] <Willdude123> What can I listen to though? And how do I find it.?
[13:50] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: with the wires I don't need on that cable, can I just cut them really short so they're not in the way?
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[13:51] <cuddykid> seems to be quite a bit of demand for this free HABE Lab tracking app.. 85 downloads in first day on app store
[13:52] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: you can cut them. I'd probably keep the cable together most of the way and the just seperate at the end
[13:52] <mfa298> and trim the ones you dont need back a bit
[13:52] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks
[13:53] <mfa298> Willdude123: you might find some stuff in the HAM bands (144.800 usually has APRS traffic). Or look up what you might be able to find on airband.
[13:53] <mfa298> marine band may not be so good for you.
[13:54] <mfa298> you may also hear bits on the PMR446 frequencies (the small walky talkies you can get that do up to 3km *supposedly*)
[13:55] <GMT> there's *plenty* of stuff on Airband ... 118-137 MHz AM; try your local radio ham repeater outputs
[13:56] <GMT> XABEN1 has just appeared on the tracker
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[14:02] <chrisg7ogx> relz used a 259 to n type connection and was too heavy pulling on the USB connector
[14:02] <Relz> :(
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[14:03] <chrisg7ogx> Relz yes should be in a screened box i think anyone with that sort of experience?
[14:03] <Relz> i got something supporting mine
[14:04] <Relz> it does put some weight on it when you have a PL259 going into it
[14:04] <Relz> not to mention i'm using westflex coax
[14:04] <Relz> i should get a pigtail
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[14:05] <chrisg7ogx> Yes i was too impatient to get it up and running and just left it
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[14:06] <Relz> it is a nice bit of kit
[14:06] <ibanezmatt13> Ok mfa298 I've soldered the 3.3v cable onto the stripboard
[14:06] <ibanezmatt13> I hope it's gonna be ok
[14:07] <Willdude123> Hmm.
[14:07] <Relz> i'm going to have it dedicated to HF i think once i get my antenna up, and use my cheap Dongle for UHF/VHF. Although i would be tempted to buy another one. I want to try some EME with it and a 2m yagi
[14:07] <chrisg7ogx> relz yes great compared to EZCap dongle i'm using now which is vy noisy
[14:08] <chrisg7ogx> relz it would be nice to have a row of them lol. what software do you use
[14:09] <chrisg7ogx> using simon brown's SDR Console here
[14:09] <Relz> SDR Radio v2. Only software i found which runs it over the network. I was using RTL_TCp with my cheap dongle. as my Antenna goes into my shed where i have a computer. I don't want to be sat down there all the time so i need a way to remote in
[14:09] <Relz> I run the server and console
[14:12] <chrisg7ogx> Relz is the server to allow other access to your equipment? don't really understand it
[14:13] <Relz> it allows you to access the funcube remotely , or any other radios you setup to be shared
[14:13] <Relz> you can have user accounts and let people access your kit remotely
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[14:13] <Relz> but i use it across my LAN
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[14:15] <chrisg7ogx> Relz i see thanks have been trying to read between the lines on SDR group pages! I used MIXW over my LAN vy successfully could operate my equipment upstairs whilst agreeing with wife downstairs!
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[14:16] <chrisg7ogx> think we have just under an hour before release?
[14:16] <Willdude123> Found a frequency where something is txing. Can't identify what it's txing.
[14:16] <chrisg7ogx> willdude123 Freq??
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[14:17] <Willdude123> 233.6 mhz
[14:20] <GMT> and what are you hearing? voices or data?
[14:21] <Willdude123> Data. I can't record it, cant find a jack lead.
[14:21] <Willdude123> And on fm wide
[14:21] <m3eav> 233, taxi's or satcom maybe
[14:21] <GMT> on 233 mhz you should be on AM
[14:22] <jarod> 233 = airband
[14:22] <GMT> I do have trace of a signal on 233.6675, but its not voice or data ... maybe just a constant tone
[14:22] <m3eav> milair maybe
[14:22] <jarod> 233.625 MHz AM Cranwell, UK EGYD ATIS
[14:22] <jarod> country?
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[14:23] <Willdude123> It's varying. I'm in the uk.
[14:23] <Relz> anyone know if the XABEN/HABLAB are transmitting RTTY today? or is it something else?
[14:23] <Willdude123> Shame I have no jack lead atm.
[14:23] <Willdude123> I'll look for one,
[14:23] <m3eav> yes relz in a while i beleive
[14:23] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: I think I've finished. I only need 3.3v, 5v, GND, TXD and RXD don't I? Shall I cut the rest short?
[14:24] <GMT> Willdude, try on 125.25 MHz AM
[14:24] <m3eav> iot's milair, taxis are a bit lower and satcome up a bit
[14:24] <Willdude123> Widr?
[14:25] <Willdude123> Wide?
[14:25] <GMT> normal AM, not wide AM
[14:25] <Willdude123> Nope nothing.
[14:25] <GMT> 125.25 is Farnborough Zone, controls all the low-level aircraft west of London
[14:26] <Willdude123> Hmm
[14:26] <chrisg7ogx> willdude123 maybe radio ham rtty or sstv
[14:26] <GMT> It's not constant! you need to listen for about 20 minutes
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[14:26] <Willdude123> Stupid question, but what mode do hams use for voice?
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> boring
[14:27] <m3eav> will..USB, LSB, NFM mostly
[14:27] <GMT> all modes! am, fm, usb or lsb
[14:27] <Willdude123> Haha that makes it difficult.
[14:28] <GMT> no not really, diff modes for diff freqs
[14:29] <Willdude123> Got little fragments of conversation.
[14:29] <GMT> are you on 125.25 like I said?
[14:29] <Willdude123> Yes
[14:30] <GMT> right, stay on that freq, I will tune-in to same, and report what I hear ...
[14:30] <ibanezmatt13> ping mfa298
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[14:31] <Willdude123> The reason I got the radio was to listen to ham shortwave bands but I doubt I have much chance of hearing anything anywhere.
[14:31] <Willdude123> Bear in mind my antenna is just a long wire,
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[14:34] <GMT> Will, try 125.125 AM
[14:34] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gvo7x1a0iqju7tn/WP_000106.jpg
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[14:35] <chrisg7ogx> willdude123 don't underestimate long wires!
[14:36] <Willdude123> Dammit. I was accidentally on nfm
[14:36] <m3eav> yeah, you can hang your washing on them
[14:36] <Willdude123> I still heard something.
[14:36] <GMT> true, on my long-wire I've heard Australia, Antarctica, Japan
[14:36] <Relz> telephone wire?
[14:37] <Willdude123> I'll try 125.125 on narrow am
[14:37] <GMT> yes, please do. let me know if you hear talking
[14:38] <iain_G4SGX> , I got a short wire and I still get all over the world. he he
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[14:38] <Willdude123> Not yet.
[14:38] <chrisg7ogx> i used for single core stranded for many years..put up what you can afford as high and as in the clear as poss
[14:39] <Willdude123> What happens on 125.135???
[14:39] <GMT> 125.125 is a constant bradcast from west London ... its a weather broadcast from RAF Northolt
[14:39] <Willdude123> Uhuh.
[14:39] <chrisg7ogx> 124.750 London control is vy busy also
[14:40] <Willdude123> Ok
[14:40] <jarod> search for TMA :)
[14:40] <Willdude123> I can't hear my local club repeater thus far.
[14:41] <jarod> 120.525 MHz AM London, UK CONTROL London TMA
[14:41] <jarod> should be very busy
[14:41] <jarod> TMA is all incoming and outgoing traffic
[14:41] <chrisg7ogx> g8khw can you give us a dial freq please?
[14:43] <chrisg7ogx> willdude123 where are yooo/
[14:44] <Willdude123> Basignstoke.
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[14:45] <chrisg7ogx> Perfect!! both for Heathrow and Gatwick have a look here, http://www.radarbox24.com/
[14:46] <M0CJM_Neil> I am in Basingstoke to!
[14:47] <chrisg7ogx> If interested there's an app that you can point your mobile/pad ect at A/C and it identifies it!
[14:47] <Willdude123> A/c?
[14:48] <Willdude123> What are some well populated bands for ham voice?
[14:48] <M0CJM_Neil> Willdude I am in Oakley, you need sme elp?
[14:49] <M0CJM_Neil> some help
[14:49] <M0CJM_Neil> ?
[14:49] <Relz> pickup london control fine from here
[14:49] <chrisg7ogx> aircraft
[14:49] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: sorry was afk
[14:49] <mfa298> I think those are all the connections you needed
[14:50] <Willdude123> M0CJM_Neil: Really? Me too.
[14:50] <M0CJM_Neil> Yep. Am near the One Stop
[14:50] <Willdude123> Which side of oakley? I'm on fox lane.
[14:50] <chrisg7ogx> willdude123 http://rsgb.org/main/operating/band-plans/uk-band-plan/
[14:51] <Willdude123> You couldn't tx so I can hear, could you?
[14:51] <M0CJM_Neil> I know Fox lane, 2 mins from me. I am near The One Stop
[14:51] <M0CJM_Neil> I can do, what freq?
[14:51] <Willdude123> Errm.
[14:51] <Willdude123> I'm new to this. I have no clue.
[14:51] <M0CJM_Neil> ham bandddddd m?
[14:52] <Willdude123> some ham band.
[14:52] <M0CJM_Neil> 2m?
[14:52] <M0CJM_Neil> 20m?
[14:52] <Willdude123> Shortwave preferably.
[14:52] <Willdude123> 2m will do.
[14:52] <Willdude123> What mode?
[14:52] <M0CJM_Neil> fm 145.550
[14:52] cn8dn (5009324f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.9.50.79) joined #highaltitude.
[14:53] <cn8dn> good sound rtty SDRSharp
[14:53] <M0CJM_Neil> Will you listening?
[14:53] <Willdude123> My grandad saw a guy he knew from Oakley's church at a radar rally.
[14:53] <Willdude123> The one at newbury.
[14:53] <Willdude123> Not yet.
[14:53] <chrisg7ogx> did someone say there is a new Hab tracking app out?
[14:53] <cn8dn> no dlfidigi
[14:53] <M0CJM_Neil> ok say when your listening
[14:54] <Willdude123> Narrow fm?
[14:54] <M0CJM_Neil> just fm on 2m
[14:54] <M0CJM_Neil> prob is classed as narrow
[14:54] <M0CJM_Neil> you should hear me on either
[14:54] <Willdude123> Go ahead. I'm listening.
[14:54] <Willdude123> Heard.
[14:54] <Willdude123> Thanks.
[14:54] <M0CJM_Neil> cool
[14:54] <Willdude123> Nice.
[14:55] <M0CJM_Neil> no worries, 100W overboard though..lol
[14:55] <M0CJM_Neil> u new to all this?
[14:55] <Willdude123> Do that again please.
[14:55] <Willdude123> That was so cool.
[14:55] <Willdude123> Yeah.
[14:55] <M0CJM_Neil> ok
[14:56] <M0CJM_Neil> u hear?
[14:56] <Willdude123> Wow.
[14:56] <Willdude123> Yeah.
[14:56] <M0CJM_Neil> cool
[14:56] <M0CJM_Neil> what radios you got?
[14:56] <Willdude123> Frg965
[14:56] <Willdude123> Yaesu.
[14:57] <Willdude123> Guy from nadars lent it to me.
[14:57] <chrisg7ogx> cn8dn tks
[14:57] <M0CJM_Neil> cool, u listenon 20m?
[14:57] <Willdude123> Sure. I'll try.
[14:57] <Willdude123> Freq?
[14:57] Tommo (51b2ec1c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.178.236.28) joined #highaltitude.
[14:57] <M0CJM_Neil> 20.160
[14:57] <M0CJM_Neil> 14.160
[14:57] <Willdude123> Oh ok
[14:58] <M0CJM_Neil> u tuned in?
[14:58] Nerdsville (5211b854@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.17.184.84) joined #highaltitude.
[14:58] <chrisg7ogx> has ur frg965 been wide banded? document say 60Mhz is lowest capability
[14:58] <Willdude123> Ah yeah. Just noticed
[14:58] <M0CJM_Neil> oh is it a VHF only rig?
[14:58] <Willdude123> Yup.
[14:59] <Willdude123> Tim Doncaster from Nadars lent it to me.
[14:59] <M0CJM_Neil> oh ok, we cant try that then, bak onto 434.250 for balloon tracking :-)
[14:59] <cn8dn> chrisg7ogx: config dldigi
[14:59] <Willdude123> Heh
[14:59] <g0hww> try listening for London VOLMET on 121.605 AM
[14:59] <M0CJM_Neil> I know who Tim is
[14:59] <Relz> anyone tracking the balloon launch at 4 BST?
[15:00] <g0hww> hopefully me
[15:00] <Willdude123> Do you know many hams from oakley.?
[15:00] <M0CJM_Neil> Am going to try but down in Basingstoke so dont fancy my chances
[15:00] <Relz> if anyone hears or sees the RTTY let me know.
[15:01] <g0hww> wilco
[15:01] <Willdude123> Do you mind txing again in a few mins so I can show my granddad? :-) sorry for asking you to do it so many times, but it's so cool.
[15:01] <M0CJM_Neil> Nope not really know. I know of Steve Harding, he taught me the RAE
[15:01] <M0CJM_Neil> ok same freq?
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[15:02] <chrisg7ogx> give a call 0n 433.500 the fm calling frequency
[15:02] <mfa298> M0CJM_Neil: as long as your location is reasonable you should hear the balloon. Hopefully these ones will have a better radio/antenna setup (Several of the recent ones havn't been as good as they should have been)
[15:02] <M0CJM_Neil> hi mfa Well, didnt hear anything from the Frida Chelmsford launch :-(
[15:03] <M0CJM_Neil> who wants a call on 433.500?
[15:03] <Relz> as I'm new to the HAB thing, why are there two payloads on the balloon?
[15:03] <mfa298> From what others said the chelmsford launch wasn't the best tx and went up fairly slowly so was harder to hear - Steve generally has good payloads (I might even hear it in Southampton through the re-inforced concrete)
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[15:04] <mfa298> Relz: Possibly they're doing different things. One might be a trial one (so the other is for backup)
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[15:04] <M0CJM_Neil> Didnt even know there was a launch today!
[15:04] <Relz> i had something up at my end, i could see the RTTY clearly but the program didn't want to decode it
[15:05] <M0CJM_Neil> so which is the best to listen out for HABLAB or XABEN
[15:05] <Relz> M0CJM_Neil: you putting a call out on 433.500? NFM ?
[15:05] <GMT> Relz: where are you located?
[15:05] <M0CJM_Neil> I can do...
[15:05] <M0CJM_Neil> Basingstoke
[15:05] <cuddykid> ping daveake
[15:06] <daveake> pung
[15:06] <Relz> M0CJM_Neil: yeah go ahead i'll see if i can get it
[15:06] <G4MYS_Andy> XABEN is off by the looks
[15:06] <M0CJM_Neil> Anything?
[15:06] <Relz> GMT: I am in Essex
[15:06] <Relz> M0CJM_Neil: nope
[15:06] <G4MYS_Andy> turn your rdio on then!
[15:06] <M0CJM_Neil> ahh only have 50W on 70cms
[15:07] <iain_G4SGX> they're off
[15:07] <mfa298> Basingstoke to Essex sounds like quite a challenge for 70cms
[15:07] <LeoBodnar> What is tx for the launch?
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[15:08] <mfa298> 434.450MHz - Callsign: HABLAB - 700Hz shift 100 baud 7N1 ASCII
[15:08] <mfa298> 434.250MHz - Callsign: XABEN1 - 650Hz shift 50 baud 7N1 ASCII
[15:08] <LeoBodnar> ta
[15:08] <RocketBoy_S2> its away
[15:08] <Relz> i can see it on 450
[15:08] <M0CJM_Neil> I heard the balloons up in Derby last Weekend but only once up hery high
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[15:09] <g0hww> 434.4393MHz low tone
[15:09] <mfa298> Depending on your setup you should start to hear it when your somewhere between the blue and green circles. And with almsot any setup you should hear it when you're in the green circle
[15:10] <Relz> its nearly decoding here, but a few errors
[15:10] <g0hww> boths signals strong here, not got yhe config right for a decode yet
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[15:11] <LazyLeopard> Usually figure the blue circle's a good starting point. Sometimes I get them a bit before it, sometimes it takes a little longer. This one was visible before, but not immediately decodable.
[15:11] <GMT> only partial decodes here
[15:11] <M0CJM_Neil> 100 baud 700 shift?
[15:11] <g0hww> looks like a 740Hz shift
[15:11] m3eav (bc1efcb3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.30.252.179) joined #highaltitude.
[15:11] <g0hww> printing now
[15:11] <Upu> Wow
[15:11] <Upu> a launch
[15:11] <Upu> with an antenna
[15:11] <g0hww> green
[15:12] <daveake> lol
[15:12] <LazyLeopard> Clean decodes on XABEN now. Can only track one, so will stick with that for now.
[15:12] <Upu> this should be encourage
[15:12] <Upu> d
[15:12] <Maxell> Upu: antenna?
[15:12] <Upu> yes
[15:12] <LazyLeopard> Heh!
[15:12] <Upu> launching with one
[15:12] <Maxell> omg
[15:12] <g0hww> is the other payload the same
[15:12] <Maxell> how
[15:12] <Maxell> why?!
[15:12] <Upu> quite a novel approach to HABing
[15:12] <Maxell> lol
[15:12] <daveake> Maybe Steve has done this before?
[15:12] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, payloads transmit better when they've got antennas, for some strange reason. ;)
[15:12] <iain_G4SGX> Getting good decodes and half way between blue and green, nice sigs
[15:12] <GMT> if at first you don't succeed, try using an antenna
[15:13] <GMT> good decodes now
[15:13] <M0CJM_Neil> Who decoding HABLAB
[15:13] <g0hww> 434.4494MHz low tone
[15:13] <Upu> me
[15:13] <g0hww> me
[15:13] <number10> me
[15:13] <Upu> everybody I think
[15:13] Nick change: number10 -> numer10_M0MDB
[15:13] <g0hww> 740Hz shift
[15:13] Nick change: Upu -> Upu_M0UPU
[15:13] <Upu_M0UPU> Dave get your coat on mate
[15:13] <M0CJM_Neil> getting lud signal bt no decces?
[15:13] Nick change: LazyLeopard -> LazyL_M0LEP
[15:14] <iain_G4SGX> Current predicted landing is about 3 miles from me.
[15:14] <Upu_M0UPU> 100 baud
[15:14] <M0CJM_Neil> yep
[15:14] <GMT> , get walking then!
[15:14] <Maxell> RevSpace setup will also aim for the 100 baud
[15:14] <iain_G4SGX> No portable gear alas
[15:15] <Maxell> 5 m/s thats fast
[15:15] <Upu_M0UPU> thats normal
[15:15] <mfa298> damn, I'd better get a move on, the blue cirle has already made it's way down here
[15:15] <M0CJM_Neil> ooh i can hear but cant dede :-(
[15:15] <g0hww> xaben1 also good 434.2487 low tone
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[15:15] <g0hww> 50bd 670Hz shift
[15:15] <M0CJM_Neil> got it, 434.44865
[15:16] <Upu_M0UPU> Xaben is on 434.247.500
[15:16] <M0CJM_Neil> nice decodes from HABLAB
[15:16] <Upu_M0UPU> yeah 100 baud seems fine
[15:16] <M0CJM_Neil> is t best to centre signal anywere on waterfall?
[15:16] <Maxell> Oh, it's not going to float :o
[15:16] <junderwood> Hablab looks _very_ strong for 10mW
[15:17] <M0CJM_Neil> cracking signal in Basingstoke
[15:17] <Maxell> M0CJM_Neil: some say 1000 hz, some day 1500 hz
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[15:17] <Tommo> yeah... got it :)
[15:17] <LazyL_M0LEP> Generally figure near the middle of your rig's pass band...
[15:17] <LeoBodnar> What is the TX power level on the payloads?
[15:17] <iain_G4SGX> very nice sigs, will have to check what his setup is..
[15:17] <M0CJM_Neil> i have centered it about 1200 Hz
[15:18] Jess-- (51a81682@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.168.22.130) joined #highaltitude.
[15:18] <M0CJM_Neil> wow no signal strength on radio but perfect decodes
[15:18] <Upu_M0UPU> 10mW LeoBodnar
[15:18] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: Law says max 10 mW for the LPD 70 cm...
[15:18] <Upu_M0UPU> my S meter never ever registers
[15:19] <Relz> i hear it fine, but dl-flddigi doesn't decode it right, no idea what i am doing wrong
[15:19] <Relz> had the same thing on friday
[15:19] <M0CJM_Neil> u got 10 baud and 740 shift on
[15:19] <junderwood> Upu_M0UPU, signal report of 50 doesn't sound right :)
[15:20] <Upu_M0UPU> Relz which payload are you on ?
[15:20] <Jess--> are you on lower sideband instead of upper?
[15:20] <Relz> i am on xaben1
[15:20] <Relz> i tried both
[15:20] <Relz> i am on USB
[15:20] <eroomde> that explains the low ascent rate
[15:20] <Upu_M0UPU> ok do a screen shot lets see what you see ?
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[15:20] <ibanezmatt13> sorry mfa298 I had to go out
[15:20] <Relz> heres an example
[15:20] <Relz> $$$"$XABEN1,3V4,16:20:2952'27687,-001<40l9997BM
[15:21] <Upu_M0UPU> ah ok
[15:21] <Upu_M0UPU> right screen shot of your dl-fldigi pls
[15:21] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gvo7x1a0iqju7tn/WP_000106.jpg
[15:21] <M0CJM_Neil> mfa nice signals from HABLAB in Basingstoke
[15:21] <Jess--> have you got the squelch active (bottom right corner) I think most run with it off (no green light)
[15:22] <Relz> yes, and the green bar is all the way to the top
[15:22] <Maxell> Relz: what kind of reciever? rtl-sdr?
[15:22] <M0CJM_Neil> Spacenear.us not showing me as having heard the balloon :-(
[15:22] <Upu_M0UPU> might be something silly a screen shot may answer the question
[15:22] <Relz> funcube pro+
[15:23] <Maxell> hmm, k
[15:23] <Maxell> could be still weak signal
[15:23] <LeoBodnar> I know law says 10mW - it must be a good antenna then :)
[15:24] <Relz> what shift should i have. as its more than 600 right?
[15:24] <Upu_M0UPU> lol
[15:24] <GMT> shift is about 650
[15:24] <Upu_M0UPU> the thing is LeoBodnar this is how it should be, the last few launches have been extremely weak
[15:24] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: line of sight - nothing in between is the magic trick here.
[15:24] <Upu_M0UPU> this is what it should actually look like
[15:24] <Maxell> yeah
[15:25] <Jess--> unlike titan which flew on 1mW by mistake
[15:25] <GMT> oops!
[15:25] <Jess--> the clue was that everyon was saying it seemed 10db weaker than they expected
[15:25] <Geoff-G8DHE_> M0CJM_Neil Have you loaded the Location tab on the DL config tab ?
[15:25] <iain_G4SGX> Between strings, its not a continuous mark tone, is he sending nulls?
[15:26] <Relz> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pyseip8ud2rv48e/HAB.jpg
[15:26] HixPad (~Hix-pad@host86-167-219-57.range86-167.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:26] <GMT> relz: increase the bandwidth filters to about 200
[15:26] <Upu_M0UPU> boost the output from the SDR
[15:26] <Upu_M0UPU> and increase the
[15:26] <Upu_M0UPU> what GMT said
[15:26] <M0CJM_Neil> Yeah, I am on the spacenear.us screen and also just seen my callsign under the receivers list for hablam on the right hand side :-)
[15:27] <Jess--> that looks a very low volume input to fl-digi
[15:27] <HixPad> Afternoon, any news on the conf? It is 7th Sept correct? Any ideas on location?
[15:27] <LeoBodnar> I was comparing it to 1mW last Friday lol
[15:27] <Upu_M0UPU> you've chopped it off but bottom right near AFC is a diamond
[15:27] <Upu_M0UPU> it should be green
[15:27] <Relz> GMT: bandwidth filter?
[15:28] <g0hww> http://www.g0hww.net/2013/06/hablabxaben1.html
[15:28] <GMT> relz: bottom left corner, see 'RTTY' ... right-click on RTTY; in pop-up box move slider at bottom, then'save' and 'close'
[15:28] <Upu_M0UPU> should look like this : http://i.imgur.com/TPE45XG.png
[15:29] Action: mfa298 discovers decoding works better when the selected payload matches the frequency your on
[15:29] <mfa298> M0CJM_Neil: I'm even getting it though the re-inforced concrete block I live in down the road from you.
[15:29] <bertrik> We're getting our first decodes from xaben here in the hague, netherlands
[15:29] Nick change: mfa298 -> mfa298_M1ARI
[15:30] <m3eav> got first faint signal here in Portland despite beam ing through a gable wall presently
[15:30] Action: mfa298_M1ARI joins the club
[15:30] <ibanezmatt13> ping fsphil
[15:30] <Upu_M0UPU> yeah this is a proper singal :)
[15:30] <M0CJM_Neil> hi M3EAV, nice to see yu geting sme igals?
[15:30] <GMT> but this is Steve flying, so you always knew it would be okay
[15:31] <m3eav> not decodable yet thogh, bit longer
[15:31] <Maxell> elevation 0.3 :)
[15:31] <mfa298_M1ARI> m3eav: it should get stronger so hopefully you'll get some decodes
[15:31] <M0CJM_Neil> I have been lucky today, heard it minutes after launch
[15:31] <Jess--> anyone else getting fading on hablab?
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[15:32] <m3eav> it's .250 i am getting, nothign on .450 but also interterference higher on .450
[15:32] <Maxell> fading on xaben also
[15:33] <pws> any info abt. max. expected altitude?
[15:33] daveake (~daveake@daveake.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:33] <Maxell> pws: Predicted Burst
[15:33] <Maxell> 52.5768, 0.628537, 30831 m at 17:05 UTC
[15:33] <Jess--> it's faded twice so far (completely off waterfall when it goes)
[15:33] <Upu_M0UPU> no idea pws
[15:33] <pws> tnx
[15:33] <Upu_M0UPU> I put 31km in the predictor
[15:33] <pws> guess too low for me...
[15:34] <Relz> not having much luck having changed things
[15:34] <Upu_M0UPU> given the ascent rate and the proximity of the sea I doubt its going to go much higher than that
[15:34] <Upu_M0UPU> where are you ?
[15:34] <pws> Kiel, N-DL
[15:34] <pws> 54N 10E
[15:34] <Maxell> Strong signal back
[15:34] <GMT> Relz: new dropbox pictuire please
[15:35] <mikestir> I can hear both now. weak though
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[15:35] <Upu_M0UPU> I would be surprised if you could receive it even if it went super high
[15:36] <Relz> https://www.dropbox.com/s/g4wzxv6580phorw/HAB2.jpg
[15:36] <LeoBodnar> What is Temperature3 sensor on HABLAB?
[15:36] <M0CJM_Neil> 54.6 degrees
[15:36] <LeoBodnar> What is it?
[15:36] <M0CJM_Neil> oh soprry thought you was asking for the reading.. sorry
[15:36] <LeoBodnar> nps :)
[15:37] <LeoBodnar> Seems quite hot, heater of some kind?
[15:37] <Upu_M0UPU> Don't know who's payload it is
[15:37] <Upu_M0UPU> Steve launches quite a few commercial ones so we may never find out
[15:38] <mfa298_M1ARI> ibanezmatt13: that looked pretty good.
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[15:38] <ibanezmatt13> excellent
[15:38] <ibanezmatt13> I have one thing I need to ask
[15:39] <Maxell> 100 baud not getting clean copys from .nl& I'll stick with 50 baud :-)
[15:39] <pws> switched back from fldigi to baudline for high integration rates
[15:39] <ibanezmatt13> With regard to powering the Pi through this GPIO header, would I take a regulated +5v into the Pi's GPIO and is that all if I already have it connected to ground?
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[15:40] <qyx_> Relz: there are some "LAB", "HAAB" characters in your decode, but you have selected xaben settings
[15:40] <mfa298_M1ARI> ibanezmatt13: If what I think you can do is correct then that should work (It's been a while since I read the stuff on powering the Pi through other means than the micro usb)
[15:40] <qyx_> couldn't it be that?
[15:40] <Relz> i was trying both
[15:40] <PE2G> First decodes from HABLAB, dx 426 km
[15:41] Chris_M6CSV (52085b0a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.8.91.10) joined #highaltitude.
[15:41] <Relz> i am leaving it on XABEN1 now
[15:41] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298_M1ARI: I can't find anywhere which shows how to do it. I'll keep lookig
[15:41] <PE2G> elevation -0.4 deg
[15:41] <M0CJM_Neil> I am sticking with HABLAB
[15:41] <Maxell> PE2G: nice. I forgot to check distance...
[15:41] <Maxell> It was at 0.3 degrees elevation
[15:42] <Maxell> PE2G: but how, the 100 baud signal is not stable enough to create a green decode
[15:42] <m3eav> getting first decode a bit
[15:42] <iain_G4SGX> Its a joy to have such a strong sig so close for a change, I can safely leave it on AFC and go and make some coffee.. Nice.. :)
[15:43] <m3eav> still beaming through a gable end wall and roof:-)
[15:43] <PE2G> Maxell: 1 out of 10 are failures here: http://s15.postimg.org/e4h3mzcu3/Screen917.jpg
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[15:44] <M0CJM_Neil> Willdude you still on here?
[15:44] <LeoBodnar> iain_G4SGX, is decoding more stable with manual tracking?
[15:44] <Maxell> PE2G: meh, this is as close as it gets Predicted Burst
[15:44] <Maxell> $$$HABLAB,81,15:43:27,52.41178,0.42481<12333l4.5l:l.0,-7.6,55.8,42.9,/ *AE3C
[15:44] <m3eav> $$$$$XABEN1,457,11:43:44,52.41378,0.43087,12414*79A
[15:44] <iain_G4SGX> Will soon have a beam at the end of the garden on a Scam telescopic mast.. AFC only reliable when its a strong sig otherwise it can drift off frequency
[15:44] <pws> which signal is the stronger one?
[15:45] <Jess--> same strength but you have a better margin for noise on 50 baud
[15:45] <pws> tnx
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[15:46] <ibanezmatt13> Anybody know how to power a Pi from the GPIO?
[15:47] <Jess--> my current antenna is a little sharmans x50 (2/70 co-linear) tied to the washing line pole
[15:47] <mikestir> ibanezmatt13: afaik you can just feed +5v in on the relevant pin
[15:47] <chrisg7ogx> XABEN nice and stable
[15:47] <mikestir> the only caveat is it's on the wrong side of the polyswitch
[15:47] <bertrik> to what extent does dl-fldigi try to be an optimal decoder w.r.t. noise?
[15:47] <mikestir> so there's no overcurrent protection
[15:48] <Upu_M0UPU> I suspect though I might be wrong and Steve can correct me, XABEN may be using an LMT2
[15:48] <Upu_M0UPU> RocketBoy_S2 ?
[15:48] <ibanezmatt13> I could just put a diode in before it? mikestir. And also, is it +5v into the +5v line on the Pi? Definitely?
[15:48] <m3eav> pretty good decode here now green bar
[15:49] <chrisg7ogx> who is tracking both using SDR Console and how do you do it please?
[15:49] <mikestir> ibanezmatt13: I'll buzz it out on mine. brb
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[15:49] <ibanezmatt13> thanks mikestir
[15:49] <mfa298_M1ARI> chrisg7ogx: if you're using a single FCD Pro + you can't do both at the same time.
[15:50] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 The 5V line on the GPIO is the same as the test point is the same as what goes to the 3.3V regulator. There's a circuit diagram on the web you can check for these things. Or use a multimeter!
[15:50] <mfa298_M1ARI> if you've got a rtl-sdr you can, you'll need to set one on vfo-a and the other on vfo-b
[15:50] Nick change: daveake -> daveake_M6RPI
[15:51] <M0CJM_Neil> Was this launch notified via the google email group as I never got it :-(
[15:51] <Upu_M0UPU> yes only a day or so ago
[15:51] <M0CJM_Neil> ok, must have missed it
[15:51] <ibanezmatt13> daveake_M6RPI: Ah right, so +5v into the +5v pin on the GPIO will be fine, thanks :)
[15:51] <Upu_M0UPU> Are you getting any mails ?
[15:51] <mikestir> ibanezmatt13: my multimeter agrees
[15:52] <M0CJM_Neil> yeah i dont usually have a problem. Must have got lost in amongst the junk!
[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> excellent, thanks
[15:52] <mikestir> pin 2
[15:52] <mfa298_M1ARI> maybe you missed it as there wasn't a torrent of emails about frequencies and repeater inputs afterwards
[15:52] <Upu_M0UPU> ok
[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> Upu_M0UPU: I purchased that SMA connector yesterday :)
[15:52] <M0CJM_Neil> lol M1ARI
[15:52] <Upu_M0UPU> oh cool I'll sort it out tomorrow cheers
[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks :)
[15:54] <chrisg7ogx> using rtl-sdr have assigned vfo to each tracker
[15:54] <jcoxon> morning all
[15:54] <Upu_M0UPU> morning ? :)
[15:54] <numer10_M0MDB> on nights jcoxon ?
[15:54] <daveake_M6RPI> long doctor hours
[15:54] <daveake_M6RPI> they confuse
[15:54] <chrisg7ogx> do i need to open two dlfldigis??
[15:54] <mfa298_M1ARI> chrisg7ogx: you probably then need something like virtual audio cable so you can feed each set of audio through a different sound device and then two dl-fldigis listening to the different sound devices
[15:56] <chrisg7ogx> mfa298 mni tks using differant VACs to two FLDLDigis
[15:56] <mfa298_M1ARI> doesn't appear to be strong enough here for my to use the rtl-sdr
[15:58] <LeoBodnar> Why HABs don't use more efficient digital modes? RTTY is almost 100 years old.
[15:59] <Upu_M0UPU> working on it Leo
[15:59] <M0CJM_Neil> G8KKN why are you off the coast of Ghanna?
[15:59] <Upu_M0UPU> mainly as its quite hard to make a small enough shift
[15:59] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, cause they are easy to do on the micro/radio
[16:00] <Upu_M0UPU> I've got it down to 22hz on the LMT2 but sau DominoEX16 needs 16hz tone spacing or something
[16:00] <Upu_M0UPU> like I say working on it :)
[16:00] <GMT> somebody last year did some helschreiber
[16:00] <Upu_M0UPU> lol thats hardly ned :)
[16:00] <jcoxon> GMT, that was me
[16:00] <Upu_M0UPU> new
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[16:00] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, in theory you could do anything dl-fldigi can decode
[16:01] <jcoxon> so the system is open to a fair few different modes
[16:01] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[16:01] <PE2G> Has THOR ever been tried?
[16:01] <LeoBodnar> I have plenty of power in the MCU and TX chip, can I use MFSK, etc?
[16:01] <GMT> jcoxon: was that a one-off experiment, plan to do any more?
[16:01] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, yeah dl-fldigi does mfsk
[16:01] <jcoxon> GMT, well its was an experiement - its not particualarly pratical
[16:02] <Upu_M0UPU> I'm going to put a DAC on an LMT2 which should open up the MFSK modes
[16:02] <LeoBodnar> Mu next tracker has a Si4462 on board, it allows for multiples of 14.3Hz shifts
[16:02] <Upu_M0UPU> if you can get the tone spacing down to ~ 16hz and make 18 of them without any real fluctuation
[16:02] <Upu_M0UPU> you should be able to do it then
[16:03] <Upu_M0UPU> in theory
[16:03] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, cool
[16:03] <mattbrejza> does MFSK in fldigi have fec or source coding, otherwise there is very little advantage over rtty
[16:03] <Upu_M0UPU> Not sure
[16:03] <Upu_M0UPU> the FEC is something I'm interested in
[16:04] <chrisg7ogx> tracking both now but dare not go to sleep before next balloon launch! TKS all
[16:04] <PE2G> THOR has FEC
[16:04] <Upu_M0UPU> DominoEX and Olivia sound better than RTTY :)
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[16:04] <LeoBodnar> I can bodge the man crystal freq to produce necessary frequency shifts, e.g. exactly 16Hz
[16:04] <chrisg7ogx> Does Olivia have FEC? My favourite
[16:04] <Upu_M0UPU> feel free to try it LeoBodnar
[16:05] <Upu_M0UPU> but I think DominoEX 16 is slower than 50 baud rtty
[16:05] <Upu_M0UPU> I might be wrong
[16:05] <mattbrejza> also wernt these modes designed for HF, hence the tiny shifts?
[16:05] <Upu_M0UPU> yes
[16:05] <LeoBodnar> Coll, I am on it then! :0
[16:05] <LeoBodnar> cool
[16:06] <mattbrejza> it seems best to just use a 2FSK scheme with a decent source code and FEC (but oc wont work with fldigi)
[16:06] <Upu_M0UPU> Use GTOR
[16:06] <mattbrejza> the other modes on fligi dont seem to give much of an advantage
[16:06] <Upu_M0UPU> they used it on Voyager
[16:06] <Upu_M0UPU> stiill do
[16:06] <Upu_M0UPU> :)
[16:06] <mattbrejza> well its kinda hard to change
[16:07] <LeoBodnar> So what's the best one to use for UHF then?
[16:07] <mattbrejza> well assuming noone is going to do anything coherent itll be a FSK based thing
[16:08] <mattbrejza> going M>2 MFSK doesnt help too much as we dont have the BW
[16:08] <eroomde> not sure i agree
[16:08] <eroomde> we have like 3khz
[16:08] <LeoBodnar> does GFSK help or is just to conserve the bandwidth?
[16:08] <mattbrejza> so thats 1200baud 2FSK?
[16:09] <mattbrejza> well symbol rate
[16:09] <chrisg7ogx> can hear both on my scanner and bob marley antenna
[16:10] <chrisg7ogx> flexi discone
[16:10] <mikestir> how do I get the extra HAB-specific controls along the top on dl-fldigi?
[16:10] <eroomde> ./dl-fldigit --hab
[16:10] <eroomde> except without the the typos
[16:10] <eroomde> and not into irc
[16:10] <mattbrejza> (im assuming that 2FSK at X symbol rate has the same performance of say 4FSK at X/2 symbol rate)
[16:10] <eroomde> and not on windows
[16:11] <mikestir> lol. doesn't like xinerama
[16:11] <Laurenceb_> mattbrejza: maybe...
[16:11] <mikestir> it's decided it wants to span both my monitors
[16:11] <Laurenceb_> mattbrejza: shannon says you need n-FSK
[16:11] <Laurenceb_> this is why mfsk-64 works so well
[16:11] <eroomde> if shannon told you to jump off a cliff
[16:12] <Laurenceb_> id ask if it would also be bandwidth efficient to do so
[16:12] <LeoBodnar> Nyquist would
[16:12] <mattbrejza> last time i tried to find info on this i didnt come up with much
[16:12] <M0CJM_Neil> HABLAB very quiet here now, getting a few red decodes
[16:12] <WILLdude> Hi pople.
[16:12] <WILLdude> *people
[16:13] <Laurenceb_> and trolls
[16:13] <WILLdude> Hi M0CJM_Neil.
[16:13] <M0CJM_Neil> Hi Will
[16:13] <m3eav> still getting decodes down her on Portland isle
[16:13] <WILLdude> Hello Laurenceb_.
[16:13] <WILLdude> I shan't feed you today,
[16:13] <chrisg7ogx> leaving everything on but have chores..it's been a pleasure
[16:13] <M0CJM_Neil> Bye Chris
[16:14] <mattbrejza> tbh just use 4x4 MIMO 16QAM OFDM (cant be too hard to implement right?)
[16:14] <WILLdude> I cut one end of the coax upu gave me so I could use it with my piece of wire.
[16:14] <eroomde> there was a guy here about 2 years ago who would always suggest something like that
[16:14] <M0CJM_Neil> Will, do you want me email address? Happy to help if you just round the corner
[16:15] <mattbrejza> was he serious?
[16:15] <eroomde> and then any technical question you asked him was defended with 'I do this for a living'
[16:15] <eroomde> but seemed to have no technical justification
[16:15] <mattbrejza> also im not sure OFDM is needed over our channel anyway
[16:15] <Laurenceb_> QAM?!
[16:15] <Laurenceb_> fail
[16:15] <WILLdude> Yeah, sure. My parents are quite wary of people I meet on the interweb.
[16:15] <Laurenceb_> shannon says you need to do the opposite
[16:15] <M0CJM_Neil> I am off for dinner folks!
[16:15] <Laurenceb_> for good reason
[16:15] <Laurenceb_> im on here
[16:15] <Laurenceb_> MUHAHAHAHAHA
[16:16] <M0CJM_Neil> I understand Will, but atleast can email me for help. neil@toombes.co.uk
[16:16] <WILLdude> So coming round to help isn't really an option.
[16:16] <WILLdude> yeah thanks.
[16:16] <M0CJM_Neil> nope that fine
[16:16] <WILLdude> Mine is iam@willdover.co.uk
[16:16] <M0CJM_Neil> email for help if you want
[16:16] <M0CJM_Neil> ok
[16:16] <M0CJM_Neil> off for dinner, will leave things decoding
[16:16] <WILLdude> Whereabouts in oakley are you>
[16:16] <WILLdude> Oh sorry ok
[16:16] <M0CJM_Neil> near barley mow
[16:17] <Laurenceb_> <mattbrejza> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon%E2%80%93Hartley_theorem
[16:17] <Laurenceb_> we are power limited
[16:17] <WILLdude> Seen the new thai takeaway there?
[16:17] <WILLdude> It's really good.
[16:17] <WILLdude> :)
[16:17] <Laurenceb_> no
[16:17] <eroomde> i love thai food
[16:17] <Laurenceb_> shocking isnt it
[16:17] <eroomde> this inspires me
[16:17] <Laurenceb_> i havent spotted it at all
[16:17] <eroomde> i shall eat thai tonight
[16:17] <bertrik> maybe use some kind of spread spectrum? :D
[16:17] <mattbrejza> i would say we are BW limited tbh
[16:18] <eroomde> or approximate something with chicken and rice and a great deal of chilli
[16:18] <WILLdude> M0CJM_Neil: The Fox has also started doing carribean food.
[16:18] <mattbrejza> bearing in mind 600 works pretty well atm
[16:19] <m3eav> lol, someone just switche deon a piece of made in china aroudn here and got a huge sig right next to the rtty creeping toiwards it, i screamed at it...it started drifting back the other way
[16:19] <m3eav> hahaha, don't mess with trhe Zol-ham
[16:20] <m3eav> tinypic.com
[16:21] <WILLdude> Weird how of 153 people there's someone from the same village as I.
[16:22] <m3eav> http://i41.tinypic.com/2ppn12u.png....go away!!!!!!
[16:22] <m3eav> [IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/2ppn12u.jpg[/IMG]
[16:22] <eroomde> the odds are low that there's someone from the same village as you
[16:22] <eroomde> but probably enormously higher that there will be at least 2 people from the same village in the channel
[16:23] <eroomde> in the same way that there only need to be 23 people for it to be probably that any two of them share the same birthday
[16:24] <WILLdude> 9th July anyone? ;)
[16:24] <eroomde> probable*
[16:25] <eroomde> sadly not
[16:25] <eroomde> summer birthday would be nice
[16:25] <eroomde> though i guess mine at least helps combat the winter blues
[16:25] <mfa298_M1ARI> with 153 people there ought to be a few birthday clashes.
[16:26] <WILLdude> I think my birthdays are cursed.
[16:26] <WILLdude> Last year, I had to go to hospital on the day after.
[16:27] <WILLdude> This year, I have a trumpet exam on the day before.
[16:27] <daveake_M6RPI> I can beat that. I was in hospital the day I was born. How unlucky is that?
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[16:28] <WILLdude> haha
[16:28] <WILLdude> That's quite lucky.
[16:28] <numer10_M0MDB> 5 or 6 years earlier daveake_M6RPI you would have been at home
[16:29] <WILLdude> it was a little bit stressful to go to the hospital on the day after my birthday.
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[16:30] <WILLdude> Actually, I am being referred to camhs so with not much luck I'll be there on my bday.
[16:30] <WILLdude> Or some date surrounding it.
[16:30] <daveake_M6RPI> numer10_M0MD or hours
[16:30] <jcoxon> right, stupid question time from me
[16:31] <jcoxon> back to controlling my cheapie uv-3r radio
[16:31] <eroomde> WILLdude: ok so i decided to work this out
[16:31] <eroomde> i've written a little function to calculate it
[16:31] <jcoxon> using a transistor to control the ptt
[16:31] <G7UXW-Kevin> I've got a question ?? the small change in the ballons direction Does that match the long drifting clouds at 20,000m
[16:31] <eroomde> according to the office for national statistics, there are 3232 towns, cities and villages in the uk
[16:32] <jcoxon> so the ptt activates when you link the ground for mic and spk
[16:32] <jcoxon> normally i use a transistor for switching say an led etc
[16:32] <daveake_M6RPI> yup
[16:32] <eroomde> so just taking that at face value, the number of people you'd have to have in here (assuming all were from the uk) to make it probably that two people would be in the same place would be...
[16:32] <jcoxon> but thats got V+ and Gnd
[16:32] <jcoxon> this is just GND and GND
[16:32] <eroomde> 68
[16:33] <LazyL_M0LEP> fadey momennt there...
[16:33] <eroomde> with 153 people, the probability that two people will be in the same twon.village/city is about 98%
[16:33] <numer10_M0MDB> that doesnt sound right jcoxon
[16:33] <eroomde> this of course is bullshit because i'm treating all people as being uniformly likely to come from any town village or city
[16:34] <eroomde> whereas it's far more likely that you come from london than, say, your village
[16:34] <jcoxon> numer10_M0MDB, yeah
[16:34] <jcoxon> there must be a current flow i assume
[16:34] <M0CJM_Neil> Am back!
[16:34] <eroomde> but you get the idea
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[16:36] <m3eav> if the green circle is 5 deg , it mayb e a bit slow, my signal here is peaking at 5 deg now, been moving th ebeam up and down
[16:36] <eroomde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem if you're interested.
[16:36] <eroomde> here is the python, also if interested
[16:36] <eroomde> http://pastebin.com/Tx6RRnYn
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[16:37] <WILLdude> M0CJM_Neil: Have you seen the thai at the barley mow?
[16:37] <mfa298_M1ARI> m3eav: the circles assume you're at sea level which isn't always true
[16:38] <m3eav> ah i see okay
[16:38] <m3eav> no i am about 100m up near center of the island
[16:38] <m3eav> buty STILL beaming at it through a brick wall and a tiled roof :-)
[16:38] <M0CJM_Neil> Yeah I have sen that the Barley does Thai but not a fan of foreign foods, roast dinner fan here :-)
[16:39] <m3eav> will you stop talkign abotu thai food...i'm on a diet , it's killing me :-)
[16:39] <mfa298_M1ARI> wow, I didn't realise portland got that high, although last time I was there was probably on a family holiday
[16:39] <M0CJM_Neil> How do i put someoens name in a message automatically like... <WILLdude> M0CJM_Neil:
[16:39] <WILLdude> Tab
[16:39] <WILLdude> Type WI then tab
[16:39] <m3eav> according ot GPS anyway M1ari
[16:40] <M0CJM_Neil> WILLdude cool
[16:40] <M0CJM_Neil> Learning all the time
[16:41] <WILLdude> Giving the radio a break for a bit.
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[16:41] <jcoxon> numer10_M0MDB, it certainly works directly
[16:41] <jcoxon> as in if i do it manually the ptt engages
[16:41] <M0CJM_Neil> So you monitring the balloon launches or this the first time in here
[16:42] <m3eav> M1ari my antennas are 450ft ASL
[16:43] <m3eav> but i have two taller buildings to my east and west that bugger me up somewhat
[16:43] <numer10_M0MDB> maybe try a FET?
[16:44] <m3eav> using a RHCP Wimo x-quad on this balloon on G-5500
[16:44] <LeoBodnar> Optocoupler?
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[16:45] <mfa298_M1ARI> m3eav: I have a similar issue. I'm in a block of flats so have a good view to the west but anything to the east of southampton has to through the re-inforced concrete.
[16:45] <m3eav> m1ari, if only it wasn;t for the planning nazi's :-(
[16:46] <mfa298_M1ARI> it has worked in my favour a couple of times but most of the time it doesn't help.
[16:46] <m3eav> my soutrh is great, see the sea all the wy to horizon, north not too bad
[16:46] <mfa298_M1ARI> I need a flat around the corner with some north facing windows and I'd be sorted.
[16:46] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298_M1ARI: I'm getting ready to bring in the regulator: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290580442556?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 This one has a heatsink which means that soldering wire to the 4 corners of the reg may be tricky. Do you have any recomendations for soldering to these corners?
[16:47] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, tin the pad and wire
[16:47] <m3eav> i'm going L and S band soon too, real shame abotu my N-W
[16:47] <chrisstubbs> then apply heat to join them both together
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[16:47] <m3eav> do some monitoring
[16:47] <m3eav> E-W i mean
[16:47] <ibanezmatt13> brb food :)
[16:47] <mfa298_M1ARI> ibanezmatt13: it shouldn't be too bad. The pads shouldn't be connected to the heatsink directly, and as chrisstubbs said tin everything first
[16:48] <WILLdude> M0CJM_Neil: Were you at the Newbury rally today?
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[16:49] <G4MYS_Andy> on their way down
[16:49] <M0CJM_Neil> No I couldnt go sadly. Did you go?
[16:49] <m3eav> whens anyone doing another ballooin that sends pics?
[16:49] <G7UXW-Kevin> burst
[16:49] <WILLdude> Indeed I did.
[16:49] <m3eav> has this one just burst?
[16:49] <g0hww> yep
[16:49] <m3eav> yeah signal changed
[16:50] <WILLdude> Just got that receiver from tim today
[16:50] <m3eav> 30.8000 mtrs, not bad
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[16:51] <g0hww> very fast qsb. changed to xaben1
[16:51] <WILLdude> Why is it that system reboots are almost never necessary, despite the fact most installers think it is.
[16:51] <g0hww> better decode
[16:52] <junderwood> That descent is a bit rapid
[16:52] <junderwood> 8.5 m/s at sea level
[16:52] <junderwood> That's going to hurt
[16:53] <m3eav> losing decode here
[16:53] <mfa298_M1ARI> WILLdude: often down to the fact that it's easier to tell people to reboot than say you might need to (which they think means they don't need to). With software it's usually best to tell uses to do something or not do something than give them a choice.
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[16:54] Action: bertrik thinks "do you want to reboot now?" is a silly question
[16:54] <M0CJM_Neil> Guys I have to pop to brothers for a bit, catch up soon. WILLdude, send me an email (neil@toombes.co.uk)
[16:54] <M0CJM_Neil> Will catch you all soon!
[16:54] <g0hww> -27m/s
[16:55] <PE2G> -27 m/s at 18k is too fast
[16:55] <g0hww> is there gonna be an unplanned lithobreaking manoeuvre?
[16:55] <BenBancroft> If i am trying to setup a Ublox max-6 to talk via one way serial, is there anything I need todo to get it to initilise?
[16:55] <m3eav> anyone got a catchers mitt :-)
[16:55] <LeoBodnar> No parachute?
[16:56] <m3eav> chute tangle?
[16:56] <mfa298_M1ARI> it will slow down (although that seems a tad faster than the rule of thumb says it shoudl be)
[16:56] <m3eav> almost lost it here, see it but no decode
[16:57] <g0hww> xaben1 is better with me at 50bd
[16:57] <m3eav> Xaben was better for me all along
[16:57] <G4MYS_Andy> 66ft sec = 100 MPH decent too fast for you?!
[16:57] <junderwood> Still predicting 8 m/s at landing
[16:57] <mfa298_M1ARI> I think it should drop to around 6-7 m/s at landing
[16:58] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs: sorry about that.
[16:58] <junderwood> mfa298_M1ARI, it slows down with the square root of the density ratio
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[16:58] <ibanezmatt13> You say to tin the pads? What do you mean
[16:58] <junderwood> 14 km. Density ratio is 0.186 so 17.6 m/s becomes 7.6 m/s
[16:59] <mfa298_M1ARI> junderwood: I was trying to guesstimate in my head - probably not the best method
[16:59] <x-f> BenBancroft, it just spits out NMEA sentences right on, there is no initialisation command needed for that
[16:59] <chrisstubbs> apply heat to the pads (connectors on the pcb for the wires) add solder so you get a little blob. Apply heat and solder to the stripped wires, put wire on pad and touch with iron to melt together
[16:59] <bertrik> junderwood: I'm always a bit surprised that the speed going up is so relatively constant, despite radical changes in pressure, balloon size, etc.
[16:59] <ibanezmatt13> ah I understand, thanks
[17:00] <junderwood> bertrik, indeed. Lift should be constant. Drag area increases (as the balloon gets bigger) so it should slow down
[17:00] <junderwood> but it doesn't
[17:00] <BenBancroft> I have it setup so that the gps's TX going into the Rx on my Pi, but I have a feeling I need to use I2C to get it to start talking
[17:00] <junderwood> partially due to the flow regime
[17:00] <junderwood> don't know abou the rest
[17:00] <BenBancroft> i would use the RX as well but its already in use
[17:00] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298_M1ARI: For testing the stripboard circuit, would it be ok if I power the Pi off the mains, but power the NTX2 and ubLOX from the regulator? It's just, I can't really use two regs at this moment
[17:00] <mfa298_M1ARI> ibanezmatt13: should be fine. just don't feed 5v into the pi from anywhere
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[17:01] <ibanezmatt13> No I won't, that's only when I'm powering Pi off batteries I think. Thanks :)
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[17:02] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gvo7x1a0iqju7tn/WP_000106.jpg Good Afternoon :)
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[17:02] <daveake> cool does it work? :p
[17:03] <ibanezmatt13> not tried it yet, will do soon. I'm testing by keeping Pi on mains power but ublox and gps off a 3.3v reg from a battery
[17:04] <ibanezmatt13> Is there any particular place I need to connect the SMA to the NTX2? I'm using an end launch one which points vertically from the board
[17:04] <daveake> close to the ntx2; keep the wires/tracks short
[17:05] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, may not be easy really. I'll try my best
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[17:06] <mfa298_M1ARI> ideally you might want to cut the tracks just past where the sma is mounted as well.
[17:06] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, not sure what side I should put it on though. https://www.dropbox.com/s/gvo7x1a0iqju7tn/WP_000106.jpg You can see where the NTX2 goes on that pic
[17:07] <ibanezmatt13> Which is the better side to put it one
[17:07] <ibanezmatt13> on*
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[17:08] <mfa298_M1ARI> I'd be tempted to put the sma at the top of the board, with the ntx2 as close to it as possible and then cut the track just after the ntx2 (althoguh someone will probably say the other way around)
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[17:09] <ibanezmatt13> That's the side I would have thought; I was just thinking of it getting stuck in all those wires
[17:09] <ibanezmatt13> Well I don't have that part yet, so I'm gonna solder the regulator onto the board now and I'll leave room to accomodate it either way
[17:10] <ibanezmatt13> So as for soldering the regulator, out of the reg: +3.3v into the regulated 3.3v rail to power NTX2 and uBlox - then regulator out goes to ground
[17:10] <mfa298_M1ARI> it shouldn't make much difference. Just keep them as close to each other as possible and remove any extra copper (as it will start acting like an antenna)
[17:11] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, thanks. Would that ^^ be correct for my next step
[17:13] <mfa298_M1ARI> sounded about right
[17:13] <ibanezmatt13> Excellent, thanks :)
[17:13] <m3eav> 13800 mtrs before i saw it , interesting to kn ow the effects of wall etc in way
[17:14] <ibanezmatt13> I might as well sign out while I do it, could be doing it for a while. See you
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[17:15] <g0hww> i have a large building and half a terrace's loft walls in the way. still S7 with 30dB SNR for RTTY at 40km and 2.9degs elev
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[17:16] <m3eav> oh no lower than that, going by spacenear map, searchign through all the uploads
[17:16] <m3eav> alogn th eline
[17:16] <m3eav> i am about 190miles from it g0hww
[17:17] <g0hww> :)
[17:18] <m3eav> oh well bye all, interesting fun, helps me work out my limits on my rotator saetup nicley
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[17:20] <g0hww> lost it at 500m, 0.5 degs elev
[17:21] <qyx_> what
[17:21] <qyx_> why is there a water drawn on the map near the landing site?
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[17:25] <eroomde> qyx_: do you live in a desert?
[17:26] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> qyx_, the area ia quite low lying very flat, zoom in and you will see many water ditches in the area!
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[17:31] <bertrik> hm, the terrain map isn't quite in sync with the satellite map there
[17:32] <qyx_> i am saying the same
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[17:56] Nick change: mfa298_M1ARI -> mfa298
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[18:04] <eroomde> HixServer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22926813
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[18:09] <jcoxon> ping fsphil
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> The associated pic with that story - http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/HAD15-0.4-AG/179-2306-ND/1634196
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> Can it really go supersonic with all that crap hanging off it?
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> err
[18:11] <SpeedEvil> http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/68205000/jpg/_68205180_hi002838230.jpg
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[18:19] <Laurenceb_> moar missiles
[18:19] <Laurenceb_> http://www.mdpi.com/journal/sensors
[18:19] <S_Mark> What is the 'smashed' attribute on Eagle?
[18:19] <Laurenceb_> ^this is epic
[18:20] <fsphil> pong jcoxon
[18:20] <Laurenceb_> open access
[18:21] <jcoxon> hey fsphil, i've got to go in a few mins but was wondering if you could help me
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Looks in principle interesting.
[18:21] <jcoxon> i've managed to get my iss tracking, aprs gen setup working
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> I need to be awake before trying to parse it though
[18:21] <jcoxon> so it tracks the iss position and when its overhead transmits packets
[18:21] <fsphil> sounds good
[18:21] <jcoxon> the issue is the you usually have the path set to ARISS
[18:21] <eroomde> S_Mark: attriubes are often physically stuck to the component
[18:21] <jcoxon> rather than WIDE1-1 etc
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[18:21] <eroomde> eg a value or a name
[18:21] <fsphil> right
[18:22] <eroomde> you move the component and all the text labels move with it
[18:22] <jcoxon> but the function i've got from your aprs stuff sticks on a ssid
[18:22] <eroomde> smash lets you get rid of this grouping and move everything individually
[18:22] <fsphil> an ssid of 0 is no ssid
[18:22] <fsphil> the packet header always has the byte
[18:22] <S_Mark> Ahh ok, just like grouping then
[18:22] <S_Mark> ungroup
[18:22] <eroomde> you need this because often you want to move labels around where components are close so that they can all be read in a clear, non-overlapping way
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[18:22] <jcoxon> so when i decode it as ARISS-0 thats alright?
[18:22] <fsphil> so ARISS-0 and ARISS is the same
[18:23] <fsphil> yep
[18:23] <S_Mark> thanks eroomde
[18:23] <fsphil> that's my understanding of it anyway
[18:23] <fsphil> aprs is an odd beast
[18:23] <jcoxon> okay well once i've made the mess of wires more secure i'll give it ago
[18:23] <fsphil> lol
[18:23] <eroomde> np
[18:23] <fsphil> be very cool if it could be heard
[18:24] <jcoxon> the radio causes a tonne of RF which can sometimes reset the micro
[18:24] <jcoxon> so i need to sort that bit out
[18:24] <fsphil> could be the long wires
[18:24] <jcoxon> yeah it'll benefit from a general sort out
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[18:25] <fsphil> lemme know when you're testing, I'll setup an igate
[18:25] <S_Mark> one other eagle question. My sma for the radio antenna connection insists on some weird grounding track route to my ublox gps. Any way to avoid that - I haven't even made a connection in the schematic (this is my first time with eagle pcb so this might be an easy / simple thing)
[18:25] <eroomde> jcoxon: i've bought an old thinkpad
[18:25] <eroomde> olish
[18:25] <eroomde> oldish*
[18:25] <jcoxon> fsphil, https://github.com/jamescoxon/Eurus/tree/master/2mTracker/Combo_new
[18:25] <jcoxon> eroomde, cool
[18:26] <eroomde> cos i want a little linux machine
[18:26] <jcoxon> :-)
[18:26] <eroomde> somewhat like your aprs node
[18:26] <eroomde> but maybe not that old
[18:26] <homewld> Hi I monitors this pm signal and recorded what I hear. The sounded like rtty and looked like rtty but fl digi would not decode??
[18:26] <eroomde> S_Mark: not sure i understand the q
[18:26] <jcoxon> eroomde, good luck :-)
[18:26] <eroomde> could you screenshot?
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> Have you perhaps got the wrong sideband selected?
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> usb/lsb
[18:26] <jcoxon> i used soundmodem in hte end but in usermode rather than kernel
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> or on your radio
[18:26] <S_Mark> yep 1 sec
[18:26] <eroomde> homewld: hit 'Rv' in the bottom-right corner
[18:26] <fsphil> is there a balloon in the air?
[18:27] <fsphil> ah guess not
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[18:34] <jcoxon> time for work
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[18:51] <eroomde> S_Mark: did you solve the problem?
[18:52] <S_Mark> I think so thanks eroomde
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[18:53] <S_Mark> hello Lunar_Lander - back in a bit
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> earlier someone showed me "Kitchen Nightmares" about Amy's Baking Company in Scottsdale, AZ
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> the first time Gordon Ramsey gave up
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> but I could understand him
[18:56] <eroomde> he does sound quite german
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[18:56] <mfa298> from searching some reviews of that place it sounded a bit like it might have improved after his visit
[18:56] <mfa298> or it might just be a 50/50 chance of getting good service
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[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> problem is that the woman in there is so angry
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> and claims they have been hacked after the show
[19:00] Nick change: LazyL_M0LEP -> LazyLeopard
[19:02] <WILLdude> Hello.
[19:02] <WILLdude> Trying to figure out the damn limited band scan.
[19:02] <WILLdude> It doesn't seem to work.
[19:03] <Gadget-Mac> Not sure if anyone saw this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22905199
[19:03] <mfa298> WILLdude: best bet is to find the manual online and read it - that's what most people are likely to do
[19:04] <WILLdude> Following the manual.
[19:05] <eroomde> Gadget-Mac: yep
[19:05] <eroomde> was on the mailing list too
[19:05] <Gadget-Mac> Ok, just checking
[19:05] <eroomde> the video is annoying
[19:06] <eroomde> or rather the google guy
[19:06] <eroomde> fully soundbite-optimised BS designed to appeal to annoying people
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[19:07] <mfa298> WILLdude: if there are particular bits that are confusing you about what it says try asking about them. Although I might need to go and find a burger (hopefully with shorter queues than the burger van earlier)
[19:08] <eroomde> make a burger!
[19:08] <eroomde> 2:1 beef:pork mince
[19:08] <eroomde> chopped onion
[19:08] <eroomde> quite a lot of salt
[19:08] <WILLdude> Just to check, limited band scan does actually scan automatically? And doesn't just limit it, while I scroll the wheel?
[19:08] <eroomde> lots of petter
[19:08] <eroomde> pepper*
[19:08] <mfa298> the issue is I've not defrosted anything to cook and nothing that's cookable from frozen - Need to go shopping tomorrow
[19:08] <eroomde> hmm
[19:09] <eroomde> i would like to live next to a 24hr waitrose
[19:09] <eroomde> don;t think they exist tho
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[19:09] <eroomde> you wouldn;t even have to own a fridge
[19:09] <WILLdude> Anyone know?
[19:09] <mfa298> and most 24hr shops aren't 24/7 damned sunday selling rules
[19:09] <eroomde> yes
[19:10] <mfa298> WILLdude: I would assume that a limited scan mode would scan between two frequencies, but most recivers will stop scanning when you do somethign your self
[19:10] <WILLdude> urgh
[19:11] <WILLdude> The down arrow is supposed to initiate the scan, but it just moves the freq down.
[19:11] <mfa298> it might just scan through a limited set of memories rather than between two frequencies
[19:12] <mfa298> it might be a press and hold job to start the scan
[19:12] <WILLdude> Could be, but it definitely is between two freqs
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[19:16] <steve_____> I am having problems with supplying power to my tracker via a raspberry pi 3v3 when I hook it up via a battery so I am considering other options and was wondering if anyone could tell me what the effect would be of supplying an independent voltage on the RX and pin
[19:16] <steve_____> (it works on the mains and the battery is rated to 5v and up to 1.5A so something is not adding up)
[19:18] <mfa298> the docs say you shouldn't pull more than 50mA from the 3v3 pin on the pi (although if you changed the reg to something better you might manage more)
[19:18] <steve_____> yeah I knw
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[19:18] <steve_____> it does work on the mains though
[19:19] <steve_____> I should check how much the radio, avr and the gps
[19:19] <mfa298> gps can pull a fair bit at times (I think >50mA)
[19:19] <mfa298> don't think AVR's pull that much (can't remmeber off hand though)
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> yeah that is the point
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> even arduino can only provide 50 mA
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> anthony's ublox needs about 60
[19:20] Nick change: Upu_M0UPU -> UPu
[19:20] <steve_____> so that will mean that I will have to mix voltages
[19:20] Nick change: UPu -> Upu
[19:20] <WILLdude> Lol Upu
[19:20] <steve_____> I thought that UART used a reference voltage
[19:21] <WILLdude> Upu: Do you have any experience with the frg-965?
[19:21] <nigelvh> The arduino uart uses the supply voltage.
[19:21] <mfa298> from what daveake has said if it's a model A and you're not using anything that needs 5V (like USB) you can run the Pi from 3v3 as long as something is on the 5v line
[19:21] <Upu> hi and no but I doubt it will be too hard
[19:21] <steve_____> I am just testing with my model B
[19:21] <mfa298> on the pi the UART is 3v3 logic from what I remember.
[19:21] <steve_____> it is
[19:22] <WILLdude> It's not. I got a guy from the other side of oakley to tx and I heard.
[19:22] <WILLdude> It's the band scan I'm having problems with.
[19:22] <mfa298> although back to the original question I don't think there's a problem with the pi from one battery and the NTX2/gps etc from another as long as the grounds are connected and the logic is at a suitable level
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[19:24] <steve_____> cool - in this case the pi will be 5v and the rest of the circuit will be 3v3
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[19:25] <mfa298> steve_____: these are a couple of diagrams I drew for someone else of what you should be able to do: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14636926/2013-06-13%2021.58.42.jpg and https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14636926/ntx2_pi_2.jpg
[19:25] <mfa298> The 2nd one is just NTX2, the first as GPS and regulators etc.
[19:25] <WILLdude> Can anyone tx on 145.550 from somewhere near basingstoke?
[19:26] <steve_____> yeah thanks for that - I saw those
[19:26] <mfa298> scrub that, they're the other way around
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[19:26] <mfa298> maybe I should draw them up better ant stick on the wiki.
[19:27] <mfa298> also note resistors are wrong in the ntx2_pi_2 one.
[19:27] <steve_____> you saw mine already - I think
[19:27] <mfa298> probably
[19:27] <WILLdude> I'm just wanting to test the range of my antenna.
[19:27] <WILLdude> Oh and on NFM please.
[19:28] <mfa298> although I've looked at so many such diagrams recently I'm not sure I remember it.
[19:28] <WILLdude> Want to know how far this can get.]
[19:28] <steve_____> https://www.dropbox.com/s/m0dm5i5aa659e0n/tracker.jpg
[19:29] <mfa298> WILLdude: you might hear some stuff on 145.725
[19:29] <WILLdude> Annoyed this band scan doesn't work.
[19:29] <mfa298> if its not active you will only get a short bit of morse every 15 minutes
[19:30] <WILLdude> Is it a repeater?
[19:30] <mfa298> Ah yes I remember that one
[19:30] <mfa298> WILLdude: yes, that's GB3SN which is near Alton
[19:30] <mfa298> http://www.avsi.co.uk/fvhfg/gb3sn/home.htm
[19:31] <mfa298> steve_____: as long as the 3k2 resistor from the ntx2 goes to the logic vcc (3v3 on the pi) you should be good (assuming you did resistors for 3v3)
[19:32] <steve_____> the whole circuit is 3v3 - I have been testing it on the mains supplied via the GPIO header on the pi :)
[19:32] <WILLdude> mfa298: Can you tx to it?
[19:32] <mfa298> at whoops I just realised it's connected to the AVR not the pi so that doesn't matter
[19:33] <WILLdude> What's a squelch tone?
[19:33] <mfa298> was about to say could use the 3v3 vcc as well if you wanted - but as thats on the AVR I'd use the AVR 3v3 vcc
[19:33] <mfa298> WILLdude: I'm not setup for tx at the moment and can't always open that repeater
[19:34] <steve_____> the pi is used for 2 things atm
[19:34] <steve_____> programmer for the AVR
[19:34] <steve_____> and serial debug for the avr
[19:34] <WILLdude> Been ten mins or so and no tx.
[19:34] <steve_____> I am considering using a model and and camera module for pics as well
[19:34] <Upu> Hi Lunar
[19:35] <steve_____> sorry model a
[19:36] <mfa298> WILLdude: if no ones using it the idents will only be every 15 minutes. As for tone squelch you shouldn't need to worry. It's mostly used by people transmitting as a way or turning the repater on.
[19:36] <G7UXW-Kevin> WILLdude there is a transmission on 145.550 as I type
[19:38] <G7UXW-Kevin> WILLdude: I'm in godalming
[19:38] <mfa298> the other place to try listening is 145.500 which is the 2m calling channel - but that can be pretty quiet a lot of the time.
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[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> btw why is every restaurant in britain full on valentine's night?
[19:40] <nigelvh> Because some people plan ahead.
[19:40] <G7UXW-Kevin> 145.550 is active her in godalming
[19:41] <G7UXW-Kevin> I live in Godalming
[19:41] <WILLdude> Funny name.
[19:42] <WILLdude> Not hearing it.
[19:42] <G7UXW-Kevin> WillDude whats your location
[19:43] <WILLdude> Oakley, Bstoke
[19:43] <eroomde> i used to live just near godalming
[19:43] <G7UXW-Kevin> #
[19:43] <G7UXW-Kevin> 1
[19:43] Last message repeated 5 time(s).
[19:43] <WILLdude> Erm
[19:43] Action: WILLdude slaps zeusbot
[19:43] <eroomde> G7UXW-Kevin entered a race condition
[19:43] <steve_____> I live fairly close
[19:44] <G7UXW-Kevin> there seems to be a long lag between what I type and when it appears on the screen
[19:45] <G7UXW-Kevin> 1
[19:45] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[19:45] <G7UXW-Kevin> race condition ???
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[19:47] <G7UXW-Kevin> Sorry for the above crap
[19:48] <steve_____> there was a pretty strong signal at 145.564
[19:48] <G7UXW-Kevin> will Dude wuold you like me to wake up SN at Alton ??
[19:51] <G7UXW-Kevin> eroomde not race condition here just some dumb cluck that had the right hand slider not set on the bottom
[19:55] <WILLdude> G7UXW-Kevin: Not atm.
[19:55] <WILLdude> I've taken the wire back in.
[19:55] <G7UXW-Kevin> ok
[19:55] <WILLdude> But if I could get you to tomorrow that'd be great.
[19:56] <Upu> do we know if Steve recovered his payloads?
[19:56] <G7UXW-Kevin> ommorrow I'll be in Ashford as I stay away during the week and return on Friday
[19:57] <WILLdude> Oh nvm then
[19:57] <WILLdude> I'll se if neil will tomorrow.
[19:57] <WILLdude> *see
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[20:06] <G7UXW-Kevin> WillDude The beacon on 144.430 is quite strong and should be able to be heard accross most in southern uk
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[20:22] <RocketBoy> hi folks - just to say thanks for tracking - I got it back - I'm back home now
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> Congrats!
[20:23] <RocketBoy> reasonably east recovery - just a lot of waling
[20:23] <RocketBoy> walking
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[20:23] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:25] ibanezmatt13 (1f34b771@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.52.183.113) joined #highaltitude.
[20:25] <ibanezmatt13> Good Evening :)
[20:26] <Upu> what was the transmitter on XABEN RocketBoy ?
[20:26] <RocketBoy> LMT2
[20:26] <Upu> suspected as much
[20:26] <Upu> rock solid
[20:26] <RocketBoy> why?
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[20:26] <RocketBoy> ah - they are
[20:27] <Upu> I put them on the shop
[20:27] <Upu> I think with a DAC you will be able to do MFSK modes with them
[20:27] <RocketBoy> in fact I think some of the minimal temp shift is in fact due to the external resistor
[20:27] <Upu> yep
[20:27] <RocketBoy> I did some measurements and concluded that the other day
[20:28] <Upu> above 0.5V input they are very linear response
[20:28] <Upu> I've ordered a DAC anyway
[20:28] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[20:28] <Upu> pung
[20:29] <ibanezmatt13> Sorry, Upu, don't know why I pinged you
[20:29] <ibanezmatt13> Sorry :)
[20:29] <Upu> lol
[20:29] Action: Upu marks his piece of paper
[20:29] <fsphil> ping ibanezmatt13
[20:29] <ibanezmatt13> Hey fsphil
[20:29] <fsphil> evening :)
[20:29] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: I've finished!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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[20:30] <ibanezmatt13> All onto stripboard! GPS, radio, the lot!
[20:30] <ibanezmatt13> It works perfectly!
[20:30] <fsphil> haha
[20:30] <ibanezmatt13> Transmitting data beautifully!
[20:30] Action: mfa298 was about to ask does it work
[20:30] <ibanezmatt13> No fluctuations
[20:30] <fsphil> your breadboard must be none too good
[20:30] <Upu> hey ibanezmatt13
[20:30] <mfa298> next question is does it work at altitude
[20:30] <fsphil> congrats :)
[20:30] <Upu> I've got permission to launch from a site in Bradford
[20:30] <ibanezmatt13> No bad connections on stripboard, hey Upu :) I'm so happy
[20:31] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: when I set flight mode, hopefully yes! :)
[20:31] <mfa298> well done on getting it this far.
[20:32] <ibanezmatt13> thanks mfa298, really appreciate the help I've been given
[20:32] <mfa298> you've now got closer to having something launch ready than I have.
[20:32] <ibanezmatt13> wow :)
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[20:56] <Willdude123> If a payload uses APRS, does everyone building it need a license?
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> Only the operator.
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> Chinese factory workers don't need licences.
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[21:03] <LeoBodnar> Upu, what chips do LMT2 use? I can see you have abandoned RFM22 in favour of LMT2?
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[21:05] <Upu> I've not abandoned it
[21:05] <Upu> but the RFM22B is EoL
[21:05] <Upu> I'm doing a design round the Si4464
[21:06] <LeoBodnar> I think in former USSR you had to get approved permission to start building the HAM transmitter, even if you didn't turn it on.
[21:06] <Upu> (which I might pass by you at some point!)
[21:06] <LeoBodnar> :)
[21:06] <Upu> but the LMT2 is an old school analogue radio with good quality components
[21:06] <Upu> frequency agile
[21:06] <Upu> TCXO and generally rock solid
[21:06] <Upu> well sort of analogue
[21:07] <Upu> not as analogue as the NTX2
[21:07] <LeoBodnar> Why Si4464? I use Si4460 as they are better optimised for 10mW range.
[21:07] <Upu> I think I started down the line as it was a transciever
[21:07] <Upu> like the SI whatever it is on the RFM22B
[21:08] <Upu> but 4460 does actually make more sense
[21:08] <Upu> and its rated to -40
[21:08] <Upu> cheers I'll take a look
[21:09] <mattbrejza> any reason for recreating the rfm22b?
[21:09] <Upu> I'm not recreating it tbh
[21:09] <Upu> I've always wanted to address the issue of temp and component quality
[21:09] <mattbrejza> oh ok
[21:10] <Upu> by rolling my own with one of the SI chips can get hopefully better performance
[21:10] <Upu> and use different modes
[21:10] <mattbrejza> could always just replace the crystal for the temperature failing thing though?
[21:10] <Upu> but being honest i'm out of my depth with them but you have to start somewhere
[21:10] <Upu> I have done that yes
[21:10] <mattbrejza> did it work?
[21:10] <Upu> I have 3 RFM22B's here with new crystals on
[21:10] <Upu> well not flight tested but they work
[21:10] <mattbrejza> although hard to say without lots of testing
[21:11] <LeoBodnar> They are command and pin-compatible anyway between themselves and with Si406x Tx only series.
[21:11] <mattbrejza> unless you have a very cold freezer
[21:11] <Upu> so if I've designed something for the 4464 I can drop a 4460 straight in?
[21:11] <Upu> well
[21:11] <Upu> might have that
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[21:11] <Upu> I have one ready to go on a Pico
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[21:12] <Upu> anyway its on my list of many things
[21:12] <mattbrejza> yea
[21:12] <mattbrejza> does the matching have a decent number of components on it?
[21:12] <Upu> yeah loads
[21:13] <Upu> going to be a pita to solder
[21:13] <mattbrejza> no single balun solution like you have for TI's stuff now
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[21:13] <eroomde> stencil
[21:13] <eroomde> peasy
[21:13] <LeoBodnar> Upu, yes, drop Si406x into Si446x nps
[21:13] <Upu> ok cheers Leo
[21:13] <nigelvh> Interesting
[21:13] <Upu> the 4464 isn't rated to -40
[21:13] <Upu> worth noting
[21:14] <nigelvh> KT5TK flew it fine.
[21:14] <Upu> yep
[21:14] <nigelvh> Plus we'll tend to run at higher power so it will run warmer.
[21:14] <Upu> well yeah I want to run at 1.8V as well
[21:14] <nigelvh> Yeah
[21:14] <nigelvh> Which is it's own challenge.
[21:14] <mattbrejza> i still like my transciever IC, but i guess a lot of people will be happy if you can solve the rfm issues
[21:15] <Upu> there are some new modules from HopeRF
[21:15] <Upu> but none that run at 1.8V like the RFM22B
[21:15] <LeoBodnar> I have run them off 1.8V for another project. Might just stick them into freezer to see what happens.
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[21:15] <Upu> I think it was chrisstubbs had access to a test chamber
[21:16] <eroomde> i'm not sure you can get 10mW with only a 1.8V supply
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> Why do you think it is not rated to -40C? My datasheet says they are
[21:16] <eroomde> given 10mW is 2V peak-to-peak into a 50-ohm load
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[21:16] <eroomde> unless my mental maths is wrong
[21:16] <mattbrejza> yea but you can have a say 10ohm output load and match it to 50
[21:16] <steve_____> Excellent - I have just managed to track myself all the way to the local mc donalds and back for a mc flurry :)
[21:16] <Upu> http://www.silabs.com/products/wireless/EZRadioPRO/Pages/si446x.aspx
[21:16] <Upu> click product matrix
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[21:16] <Upu> sorry
[21:16] <Upu> ignore me
[21:17] <Upu> thats Output power range
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[21:17] <LeoBodnar> erromde, the use class E mode where Vpp can be almost 3 times Vdd
[21:17] <mattbrejza> also the cc1101 is differential out
[21:17] <steve_____> hooking up a 3v3 battery the the rest of the circuit made the thing come to life
[21:17] <chrisstubbs> "please contact your local authorized sales representative."
[21:18] Action: chrisstubbs dialing UPU
[21:18] <Upu> hey chrisstubbs
[21:18] <Upu> you put an RFM22B in a cooling test chamber ?
[21:18] <chrisstubbs> Evening, Yeah I did, still need to write up the results on that!#
[21:18] <Upu> it died at ?
[21:18] <chrisstubbs> It was good down to -50
[21:18] <Upu> oh
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[21:19] <Upu> it died though ?
[21:19] <chrisstubbs> but on the way back UP it died from -10 to +10 due to the dew I think
[21:19] <Upu> ok
[21:19] <Upu> how long was it in for ?
[21:19] <chrisstubbs> I have a nice dewpoint vs temp vs frequency graph somewhere
[21:19] <chrisstubbs> 2 and a half hours
[21:19] <Upu> interesting
[21:20] <LeoBodnar> Bizzare, http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/Si4464-63-61-60.pdf page 48: Si4464-Bxx-FM ISM EZRadioPRO Transceiver QFN-20 Pb-free 40 to 85 °C
[21:20] <Upu> sorry Leo I misread something it is -40
[21:21] <LeoBodnar> Upu, you managed to almost convince me! :)
[21:21] <Upu> lol
[21:22] <LeoBodnar> mattbrejza: I suspect Si446x are also differential Tx, they have a N/C pin near Tx and a mode that switches between +50%/0 and +50%/-50% square wave.
[21:22] <chrisstubbs> http://chris-stubbs.co.uk/hab/rfm22b_test_data.xlsm
[21:23] <mattbrejza> i would have thought it would be obvious from the matching
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> they do clever things with the drive
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> disadvantage is that the requirements for the inductors on the impedance matching are troublesome
[21:24] <LeoBodnar> mattbrejza: they only show single ended matching on appnotes but this N/C pin is definitely Tx-
[21:24] <mattbrejza> hmm odd
[21:24] <mattbrejza> are there <20mW and >20mW appnotes maybe?
[21:24] <LeoBodnar> Can't see much point though without balun or dipole
[21:24] <mattbrejza> or X mW
[21:25] <LeoBodnar> Yes, they have different appnote for matching 20dBm parts
[21:26] <mattbrejza> how many components is a 10mW match then?
[21:26] <mattbrejza> and different values
[21:26] <mattbrejza> (or inductor)
[21:26] <mattbrejza> *of
[21:26] <LeoBodnar> They control output power by selectively switching off unused output mosfets "fingers" so it makes no sesnse to use higher power part in lower power mode.
[21:28] <LeoBodnar> High power parts have higher output capacitance. Even though it's a good thing in some cases (class E in lower frequencies like 2m band)
[21:29] <Willdude123> Hi Upu. How's stuff?
[21:30] <LeoBodnar> I know you are barely interested but anyway: high power matching http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/AN648.pdf low power matching: http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/AN627.pdf
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[21:30] <mattbrejza> hmm, now isnt really the best time to read them :P
[21:32] <LeoBodnar> Does anybody know how to quickly calculate an impedance for 434MHz 1/4 GP antenna we all use on payloads?
[21:33] <nigelvh> LeoBodnar: http://www.comportco.com/~w5alt/antennas/notes/ant-notes.php?pg=20
[21:33] <nigelvh> Or you can measure it.
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[21:34] <LeoBodnar> Cool, that's exactly what I wanted. I remember 0 degrees had higher impedance than 45
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[21:34] <LeoBodnar> They don't happen to have real and imaginary parts?
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[21:34] <LeoBodnar> On that website?
[21:35] <nigelvh> I'm sure any actual antenna will. But it's hard to know without measuring it.
[21:36] <LeoBodnar> Theoretical values could be a good 1st approximation, since it is pretty much suspended in the free space.
[21:36] <nigelvh> You could sim it.
[21:37] <LeoBodnar> Any software suggestion nigelvh ?
[21:37] <nigelvh> The EZnec demo should support enough points to simulate a 434.
[21:37] <nigelvh> http://www.eznec.com/
[21:37] <nigelvh> I have a paid version which handles more points, but the demo should cover your needs for a small antenna.
[21:37] <LeoBodnar> Thnaks
[21:37] <LeoBodnar> Thanks / snacks
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[21:40] <nigelvh> Though I will admit I haven't tried getting complex impedance out of eznec.
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> hi nigelvh
[21:42] <nigelvh> Howdy Lunar
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[21:43] <nigelvh> Doing ok besides the allergies bit. Been sneezing all stupid day.
[21:44] <nigelvh> Alright LeoBodnar, you can get the impedances out of it if you use the SWR option and then move the cursor to the frequency of interest.
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> that isn't good
[21:45] <LeoBodnar> Thanks Nigel, I am downloading free version. Which paid version do you use?
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[21:45] <nigelvh> I have EZNEC+ which I think gives me 1500 points, where the free version does something like 500.
[21:45] <nigelvh> If I recall correctly.
[21:45] <LeoBodnar> 20 segments (elements?) they say
[21:47] <LeoBodnar> I'll buy it later on. I am a sucker for buying software I never use from 90's looking websites.
[21:47] <nigelvh> Oh, is it really only 20 segments?
[21:47] <nigelvh> 20 should still cover you, but you really can't get too fancy.
[21:47] <LeoBodnar> Should still be OK for a GP or simple Yagi
[21:47] <Upu> Quite modern for a HAM site
[21:47] <nigelvh> It is a good program, I've used it many times.
[21:48] <nigelvh> Also, keep in mind that there are multiple segments per "element" (say in a yagi)
[21:48] <nigelvh> The segment length should be chosen to be within a size range relative to the wavelength of interest.
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[21:49] <nigelvh> The program will warn you if it things the segments are too large/small
[21:49] <LeoBodnar> I love antennas. They make no sense.
[21:49] <chrisstubbs> Right im off, night!
[21:49] <LeoBodnar> gn!
[21:49] <Upu> night
[21:50] <Upu> lol
[21:50] <LeoBodnar> How could one invent Yagi-Uda in 1920's? I think aliens were involved.
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[21:52] <LeoBodnar> Firing up Bootcamp
[21:52] <nigelvh> I use VMware Fusion
[21:52] <nigelvh> Works well.
[21:53] <LeoBodnar> I meant Boot Camp partition inside VMware Fusion. :)
[21:53] <nigelvh> Yep
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[21:59] <LeoBodnar> 6.5MB download. Surreal. That's almost 20 floppies.
[22:00] <nigelvh> Yeah, it's not big, but it works well.
[22:03] <LeoBodnar> I like it already. No software should be bigger than 10MB
[22:06] <mfa298> +1 for eznec even though I've not used it much yet - something I keep meaning to do more of.
[22:10] <LeoBodnar> It's so much fun already
[22:12] <mfa298> the tutorial is good for getting started with it.
[22:14] <LeoBodnar> Quick question - does one element have to be multiple segments? I have loaded default 1/4 wave over solid ground and it consists of 10 segments.
[22:15] <mfa298> In simple terms I think the answer is yes
[22:15] <mfa298> from memory it does the calculations per segment so it needs a reasonable number of segments to get a plot
[22:16] <mfa298> or something like that
[22:17] <mfa298> I think the tutorial does something like 11 elements for a dipole example (I think it needed to be odd or even depending on where the source is)
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[22:20] <LeoBodnar> mfa298: I am confused how elements are connected to each other and how they are excited by the source. Not intuitive...
[22:21] <mfa298> it's well worth doing the tutorial in the help manual as it helps get to grips with things
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[22:21] <mfa298> I didn't get much further than the tutorial (started trying to go too big and struggled)
[22:22] <LeoBodnar> I found something called d_Elevrad1.ez that looks like GP with horizontal radials
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[22:24] <nigelvh> So, you construct the antenna from wires, and wires are composed of a number of elements. Wires can only be joined together at intersections of elements. Sources are attached to a wire at a % from end, and it will snap to the nearest element intersection.
[22:28] <LeoBodnar> I have loaded d_Elevrad1.ez, set ground to free space and got radiation pattern that looks like a vertical dipole :-\
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[22:30] <iain-g4sgx> Evening guys, a question on the resistor network for keying the NTX2. The VCC for the resistors is the VCC for the micro and NOT the VCC for the NTX2 unless it is powered at the same voltage as the micro? Its not that clear on the wiki
[22:30] <mfa298> iain-g4sgx: that's correct. The wiki seems to assume that logic vcc == ntx2 vcc
[22:31] <LeoBodnar> How do I feed e.g. dipole, source seem to have just single connection. Is it a single ended referenced to ground? Does dipole need two sources with 180 degree difference?
[22:31] <nigelvh> No, just feed at the center
[22:32] <nigelvh> From the help manual "Like other insertion objects, sources are connected in an imaginary break in a wire."
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> So source breaks the wire?
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[22:33] <LeoBodnar> OK, I will RTFM then :)
[22:33] <iain-g4sgx> mfa298: he he, thats why i only had about 10Hz deviation! managed a decode on a harmonic so I know the codes ok anyway.. Looked at the circuit and realised my error
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[22:47] <nigelvh> LeoBodnar: http://www.w8ji.com/ground_plane_verticals.htm
[22:47] <nigelvh> You'll see that it can also be very important to include the transmission line.
[22:50] <LeoBodnar> Makes sense, however in my case I have transmitter sitting almost directly at the radials intersection.
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[22:51] <mfa298> it's amazing how many people get confused when you start talking about coax effecivly having three conductors
[22:51] <LeoBodnar> Blimey, ideal GP has radiation pattern symmetrical in vertical plane. We are radiating 50% into space and maximum signal is horizontal (=space at 30000m)
[22:52] <LeoBodnar> Hmmm, not ideal antenna for HABs
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[22:53] <LeoBodnar> http://www.w8ji.com/images/Zepp/end-fe10.gif
[22:53] <mfa298> a few people have suggested bending the radials by 45 degrees from the horizontal plane as it helps bring the feed point impedance up and helps with the radiation pattern
[22:53] <LeoBodnar> Downwards?
[22:54] <LeoBodnar> I need to think about this all over again.
[22:54] <mfa298> downwards for a normal grund plane (or upwards for a HAB) i.e. away from the driven element.
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[22:55] <mfa298> this is what I wanted to try and model in eznec but kept getting lost on how to make the model work, and then usually decided that I needed to get a better version to have more segments to play with
[22:57] <LeoBodnar> Just bent them 45 degrees but the radiation pattern remains almost symmetrical.
[22:57] <nigelvh> Yeah, changing the angle of the radials doesn't change the pattern too much.
[22:58] <nigelvh> To direct more downward you want something more like a moxon.
[22:58] <LeoBodnar> Impedance does not matter much because we don't have feedline to match. Tx can be matched to lower impedance I guess if radiation pattern is right. Which it is not. :-(
[23:00] <LeoBodnar> Bend radials a bit more and we have vertical dipole. :-)
[23:00] <nigelvh> Yep
[23:00] <LeoBodnar> Black magic
[23:00] <nigelvh> I've found they work well.
[23:01] <nigelvh> But I tend to use more power.
[23:01] <LeoBodnar> 2.5 times lighter too
[23:01] <nigelvh> Yep
[23:03] <mfa298> impedance may have mattered a bit more with the ntx2 as i think that's 50ohm although it's going to be close enough that you get enough power into the air so it doesn't matter that much
[23:05] <mfa298> especially considering the poorer flight's we've had recently are down to mis configuration of the radio or some other antenna issue
[23:06] <iain-g4sgx> I think a theoretucal 1/4 wave has an impedance of 35 ohms, bending the radials brings it up to 50 Ohms. It has a low angle of radiation so most will be going to the horizon, good for log distance trackers
[23:07] <nigelvh> The radiation pattern isn't squat like you'd imagine.
[23:07] <LeoBodnar> Without ground 50% of power gets lost in space...
[23:08] <LeoBodnar> Or with ideal ground (infinite conductive surface)
[23:09] <iain-g4sgx> At least the simulators give radiation patterns in 'free space', which is impossible to create near the surface but easier 30K up.
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[23:12] <iain-g4sgx> Often think a vertical dipole would be worth trying
[23:13] <nigelvh> That's what I use
[23:13] <nigelvh> Works well.
[23:13] <iain-g4sgx> My favourite on HF when travelling..
[23:13] <nigelvh> But I'm also in the US and use a bit more power.
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[23:14] <nigelvh> Though based on the patterns you wouldn't really lose anything by moving to a dipole vs the ground plane in free space.
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[23:16] <LeoBodnar> It's an eye opener even though it is logical if you think about it
[23:16] <nigelvh> Yep
[23:16] <nigelvh> That's why EZNEC is awesome.
[23:16] <LeoBodnar> I'll buy it then! :)
[23:17] <mfa298> I've wondered a few times about how well something like a halo would work on a hab, downside is that it's horizontal and most HABbers are setup for vertical and it's a bit more fun to build one.
[23:17] <nigelvh> We've done halos on some of our rockets due to space constraints.
[23:17] <nigelvh> Seem to work reasonably well.
[23:18] <LeoBodnar> Maybe something like 2 element Yagi?
[23:18] <iain-g4sgx> How about upside down NVIS antenna? lol
[23:19] <nigelvh> NVIS generally relies on the ground to create its pattern
[23:19] <nigelvh> Problem with Yagi in the air is that it's going to rotate so your polarization will constantly be changing.
[23:19] <iain-g4sgx> Or a ground plane will do
[23:20] <LeoBodnar> AT this rate chip antennas, inverted F or fractals don't seem that bat anymore
[23:20] <LeoBodnar> bad
[23:20] <nigelvh> We've used a crossed moxon (circularly polarized) and that works well.
[23:20] <mfa298> NVIS could be interesting with a higher band, could be a way of getting some live video down in more limited bandwidth / power
[23:20] <nigelvh> We use a crossed moxon for NTSC video
[23:20] <nigelvh> about 1W transmit power on 434.
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[23:26] <LeoBodnar> Good night all!
[23:27] <nigelvh> Evening!
[23:27] <mfa298> night
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[00:00] --- Mon Jun 17 2013