highaltitude.log.20130613

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[07:26] <UpuWork> ping Gadget-Mac GadgetDroid
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[07:59] <cuddykid> HABE 8 has been recovered :)
[07:59] <cuddykid> http://pic.twitter.com/4TRN4ziIYO
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[08:01] <WillDuckworth> good stuff - did the gopros work ok?
[08:02] <cuddykid> not sure, will get them back tomorrow hopefully
[08:02] <cuddykid> fingers crossed!
[08:02] <arko> grats!
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[08:06] <eroomde> gud news
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[08:17] <daveake> ping cuddykid
[08:17] <eroomde> pong daveake
[08:17] <eroomde> i haven;t got the hang of this yet
[08:17] <daveake> lol
[08:17] <daveake> Just read that he got his payload back from that tree
[08:18] <cuddykid> hello
[08:18] <cuddykid> yep :)
[08:18] <cuddykid> monkey man found it!
[08:18] <eroomde> yes i did recover it
[08:18] <daveake> Tree man got it for you then?
[08:18] <cuddykid> yep
[08:18] <daveake> lol
[08:18] <eroomde> no wait, still haven't got the hang of it
[08:18] <daveake> ping eroomde
[08:18] <cuddykid> I'm very surprised he managed to find it - was a nightmare to find even with the co-ordinates
[08:18] <eroomde> pong eroomde
[08:19] <eroomde> no...
[08:19] <daveake> lol
[08:19] <daveake> So he found it on his own?
[08:19] <daveake> Or was eroomde there to help?
[08:19] <cuddykid> yep
[08:19] <cuddykid> all I gave him was co-ords
[08:19] <eroomde> i was uvrywar
[08:19] <daveake> Stick his number on the wiki :)
[08:20] <cuddykid> ah yes, good idea - they are based in hereford though - so wouldn't be of much use to most flights probably
[08:21] <eroomde> i like hereford
[08:21] <eroomde> nice restaurants and walking
[08:22] <eroomde> daveake: i was in hungerford last night and this morn
[08:22] <eroomde> suddently remembered the roads looked familiarish
[08:22] <daveake> ha
[08:22] <cuddykid> do we have a tree / recovery page on wiki?
[08:22] <eroomde> roads and landscape anyway
[08:22] <daveake> The Bear?
[08:22] <eroomde> i'm not sure she'd appreciate being called a bear
[08:22] <daveake> or 2 separate trips
[08:22] <daveake> :)
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[08:55] <Darkside> the bear and the maiden fair?
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[08:59] <gonzo_> or a bare fair maiden
[08:59] Ugi (5004924d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.4.146.77) joined #highaltitude.
[08:59] <gonzo_> (though we don't see any of the combinations in Dorset!)
[08:59] <Ugi> Morning guys
[08:59] <gonzo_> mornin mr
[09:01] <Ugi> So who's balloon drifted all the way t'merica then?
[09:01] <Ugi> It's on the tracker
[09:02] <eroomde> it tells you on the right
[09:02] <eroomde> along with testing only :)
[09:03] <eroomde> been through indiana but never stopped there
[09:03] <eroomde> i have no idea wat it's like
[09:04] <eroomde> other than from documentary evidence like parks and recreation
[09:06] <eroomde> arko: at some point in the last bit of time, fpga stuff clicked
[09:06] <eroomde> i'm quite enjoying it now
[09:07] <eroomde> now that i can write the code in vim anyway
[09:07] <eroomde> haven't yet got a full cli-only toolchain set up (a whole new world of build tools that look like they need some grokking) but will get there
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[09:12] <Ugi> Sure - I wasn't being terribly serious - it's just interesting to see balloons plotted all the way over to the US and Australia.
[09:13] <Ugi> won't be long before we'll have one bobbing along in the jet stream or similar and tracked half-way across the globe
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[09:14] <eroomde> it's already happened
[09:14] <eroomde> we've had launches from the us west coast that have made it across the atlantic
[09:15] <eroomde> west-ish coast
[09:15] <Ugi> now that's a _long_ way!
[09:15] <eroomde> yep
[09:15] <eroomde> got the floater just right
[09:15] <Ugi> 6-7000 miles then?
[09:16] <eroomde> and probably a fair bit of luck with the weather and the uv-degredation of the balloon
[09:16] <Ugi> you'd need solar power or somethign for that too, surely
[09:16] <Ugi> something*
[09:16] <eroomde> 6236 miles
[09:17] <eroomde> nope just batteries
[09:17] <eroomde> it's only 2-3 days
[09:17] <eroomde> no biggie
[09:18] <Ugi> I guess you transmit and sleep in short cycles then? Even at 50mA, it's more than an Ah a day
[09:19] <eroomde> but taking say 10Ah is not very difficult
[09:19] <eroomde> lithium AAs at something like 3.2Ah each (i forget exactly)
[09:20] <eroomde> are*
[09:20] <Ugi> slightly under 3 I think, but I see your point.
[09:20] <Ugi> under 10mA is impressive
[09:20] <Ugi> and I guess not usign a 20mA NTX2
[09:20] <Ugi> using*
[09:20] <eroomde> nope, 3.2Ah @ 25mA
[09:21] <eroomde> says the datasheet
[09:21] <eroomde> but i mean, just put them in parallel
[09:21] <Ugi> I must have been looking at a different one then - which are they?
[09:21] <eroomde> i think these guys used aprs
[09:21] <eroomde> which would be a lot more power
[09:21] <Ugi> parallel - indeed.
[09:22] <Ugi> I have discovered a way to make feather-light solar panels
[09:22] <eroomde> but it's just a question of figuring out how many you need and putting that many onboard
[09:22] <Ugi> thinking of a solar + cap pico launch sometime.
[09:23] <Ugi> with no battery at all
[09:23] <eroomde> indeed, i think jcoxon tried such a flight quite recently
[09:23] <eroomde> nut don;t remember
[09:23] <eroomde> but*
[09:23] <Ugi> cool - I must ask if I see him/her around.
[09:24] <Ugi> need to get my standard tracker finished & validated first thou'!
[09:24] <eroomde> him
[09:24] <eroomde> the godfather
[09:24] <eroomde> first uk launch anyway
[09:24] <eroomde> another cam
[09:25] <eroomde> but not cusf
[09:25] <Ugi> I guessed there were quite a lot of CU people from the license-exempt launch sites.
[09:25] <Ugi> what is the SF in CUSF
[09:25] <Ugi> Space...?
[09:25] <eroomde> spaceflight
[09:25] <eroomde> made into two words
[09:25] <Ugi> Ah.
[09:26] <eroomde> historical quirk
[09:26] <Ugi> good aspiration, I would say
[09:26] <eroomde> 'license exempt' sites?
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[09:26] <Ugi> well, not needing individual CAA clearance type thingy
[09:26] <eroomde> well yep, the plan was always to launch a rocket from a balloon above 100km
[09:26] <eroomde> to justify the SF
[09:26] <eroomde> oh sorry yes with you
[09:27] <eroomde> i was thinking of radio modules
[09:27] <eroomde> slo start for me today
[09:27] <Ugi> sure - bad choice of wording
[09:27] <eroomde> well, clear from context in hindsight
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[09:27] <Ugi> has anyone lauched a rocket from a balloon yet then?
[09:28] <eroomde> we did a little one
[09:28] <eroomde> but nothing that really qualifies is a proper space-threatening rockoon
[09:28] <eroomde> it has been done in the world historically before
[09:28] <eroomde> van allen discovered his eponymous radiation belts with rockoons right back in the very early days of rocketry
[09:28] <Ugi> I guess low drag in thin atmosphere means it goes pretty far & fast
[09:28] <eroomde> yes
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[09:29] <eroomde> especially at our end of the cube square law where drag is a much bigger deal
[09:29] <eroomde> we calculated a roughly 1.5m tall, 3kg (loaded) carbon fibre dart rocket could launch from 30km into space
[09:29] <eroomde> so quite achievable, technically
[09:29] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: you mean 10km?
[09:29] <Ugi> Fab' - I'm in!
[09:30] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: 100km balloon seems optimistic
[09:30] Action: SpeedEvil should read all the way to the bottom before typing.
[09:30] <eroomde> launched from 30km into space
[09:30] <eroomde> Ugi: i think it's slightly chelved on launch range and general logistics grounds
[09:31] <eroomde> plus the two guys who were really into the idea have left cam
[09:31] <eroomde> and now have jobs
[09:31] <fsphil> DM would have a panic attack
[09:31] <SpeedEvil> You would as I understand it need permission under the outer space act.
[09:31] <Ugi> DM?
[09:31] <SpeedEvil> This has a £6000 application fee.
[09:31] <SpeedEvil> However this is waived if the applying body is an educational establishment.
[09:32] <fsphil> DM is the guy we have to ask before launching balloons
[09:32] <SpeedEvil> The powers are quite fun - they get to kick in the doors on your control centre.
[09:32] <SpeedEvil> (If you launch without permission)
[09:32] <Ugi> sounds fun
[09:33] <Brace> isn't the El Reg thing close to that? i.e. decent sized rocket from a balloon?
[09:33] <Ugi> None of that sounds too terrible.
[09:33] <fsphil> easier just to get your rocket to 30km with another rocket
[09:33] <Ugi> and I'm due a midlife cirsis
[09:34] <Ugi> so better 6K on a rocket license than 100K on a sports car
[09:34] <eroomde> Brace: no i think it's a tiny toy rocket from a balloon
[09:34] <fsphil> if you had a serious chance at getting to 100km, I bet there'd be other people interested in paying for that 6k
[09:34] <eroomde> as far as i can tell
[09:34] <Brace> Ugi: think that's just an application
[09:34] <Brace> eroomde: fair enough
[09:34] <eroomde> don't worry about rocket licenses
[09:35] <SpeedEvil> 6K for application - there may (will) be further costs.
[09:35] <Brace> i.e. they could turn you down?
[09:35] <eroomde> that kind of thing is details
[09:35] <SpeedEvil> Details that can put you in prison. :/
[09:35] <eroomde> well if you're doing it at a range they probably handle lots of that kind of stuff for you
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[09:36] <eroomde> but 6k is not going to be big bananas comapred to all the logistical costs
[09:36] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: As I understand not.
[09:36] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: the launch application has to be by you, and cannot be on behalf of the range.
[09:36] <SpeedEvil> There isn't a waiver for orbital launches from given sites.
[09:37] <SpeedEvil> And the 6K is the starting cost - you then have to prove your launch is safe - which is basically an open-ended cost.
[09:38] <SpeedEvil> This is however something I last read up on a couple of years ago.
[09:38] <SpeedEvil> It clearly falls into the noise for most 'proper' launches.
[09:38] <Ugi> I didn't imagine that was the total but I reckon if it was feasible then there would be people interested in sponsoring.
[09:38] <SpeedEvil> Ugi: Or you find a university interested in the product to take you under their corporate wing.
[09:38] <eroomde> indeed. i am actually doing all of this at the moment
[09:38] <SpeedEvil> project
[09:39] Action: SpeedEvil ponders FOIAing OSA applications and the process.
[09:39] <Ugi> eroomde: putting a rocket into space?
[09:40] <eroomde> mm
[09:41] <fsphil> he's on to us, release the hounds
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[09:45] <eroomde> hopefully no hounds needed
[09:46] <fsphil> they didn't help much last time
[09:46] <Ugi> Don't thin the hounds will be too happy at 30km
[09:46] <Ugi> think
[09:46] <eroomde> but yes, logistics are as much work as the technical side, usually
[09:46] <Ugi> probably too heavy as well
[09:46] <eroomde> and the problem with rockoons is the potential rossrange
[09:46] <eroomde> crossrange*
[09:46] <eroomde> i.e. the space of possible landing locations fr the rocket
[09:47] <eroomde> which is enormous
[09:47] <Ugi> would it actually make it back?
[09:47] <Darkside> come to woomera
[09:47] <Ugi> I had assumed it would be high enough to burn up on reentry
[09:47] <Darkside> no matter what you do it'll likely land in the woomera rocket range somewhere
[09:47] <SpeedEvil> :)
[09:47] <Darkside> then again the rocket range is probably as big as france
[09:48] <eroomde> i think you only go to woomera when you're desparate
[09:48] <eroomde> it sounds massively unpleasant
[09:48] <eroomde> and the commercial rate is just silly
[09:48] <Darkside> 127000 km^2
[09:48] <SpeedEvil> When I was considering this, I was looking at launching off the west coast of scotland somewhere.
[09:48] <SpeedEvil> Idly.
[09:48] <Darkside> woomera is in the middle of nowhere
[09:48] <Darkside> quite literally
[09:48] <eroomde> for rockoons, the winds probably take you back towards scotland
[09:48] <eroomde> which is bad
[09:49] <Darkside> its a really really boring area
[09:49] <Darkside> flat and dusty
[09:49] <eroomde> and permission will depends on worst case launch angles and ballistic rentry
[09:49] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: true
[09:49] <fsphil> Darkside: isn't that most of central australia?
[09:49] <Darkside> yes
[09:49] <Darkside> i've ben on a tour of the range
[09:49] <Darkside> lots of interesting history there
[09:49] <Darkside> the blue streak pads are huge
[09:49] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: I was more thinking of pure rocket, where it's not that much of an issue.
[09:49] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: Awesome!
[09:50] <eroomde> i now work for one of the blue streak engine designers :)
[09:50] <Ugi> Darkside - what took you there? (yes, a Jeep, but I mean what cause)
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[09:59] <Darkside> Upi: eh?
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[10:00] <Darkside> touristy things
[10:00] <Darkside> nerding out
[10:00] <Darkside> etc
[10:01] <srp84> hi, I'm looking at the NTX2 radios on HAB supplies and it advises me to come here to talk about the ordering options, so here I am :)
[10:01] <SpeedEvil> Hello!
[10:01] <Brace> srp84: you need to talk to UpuWork as he's the chap who sells them
[10:01] <Brace> and welcome to the channel
[10:02] <Ugi> Fair enough - seems a long way from anywhere you might happen to be, that's all.
[10:02] <srp84> ok, thanks! Do you know if he's around?
[10:02] <srp84> (never used irc before, so unsure how it works...)
[10:02] <HixWork> ping UpuWork
[10:02] <HixWork> is the man you need to speak to
[10:03] <SpeedEvil> He was talking yesterday
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[10:04] <HixWork> srp84, hang around for a while, he should pop up at some point. IRC can be flat out or quiet as hell
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[10:05] <srp84> i'll see if I can find him. Do any of you have experience with the ntx2? Interested to get some feedback
[10:06] <HixWork> its very widely used in HAB
[10:06] <HixWork> though there has been a lot of talk recently about theLMT2, which is adjustable frequency
[10:06] <srp84> mainly because we launched a balloon a few days ago and our radio sucked (was a zigbee). NTX seems to be recommended by many
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> srp84: Where are you?
[10:06] <srp84> Denmark
[10:08] <SpeedEvil> I guess some receivers from the UK might pick up a balloon at altitude, but not enough to be useful for recovery
[10:10] <srp84> our main problem was downlinking data, we have a separate iridium-based transmitter for tracking
[10:10] <srp84> but the bad radio meant no data from any of the sensors we had on the thing
[10:10] <SpeedEvil> http://spacenear.us/tracker/ - click 'pan to' next to the blue car, and zoom out
[10:11] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[10:11] <SpeedEvil> There is one reciever in the netherlands - at least for the last flight - I don't know if anyone closer has a listener setup
[10:11] <HixWork> The NTX2 is used extensively to relay a string of both tracking data and any other sensor data. There is a large distributed listener network over here too
[10:12] <SpeedEvil> All the antennas you can see are stations for that network
[10:12] <SpeedEvil> There are typically more - during a 'proper' launch, more pick up
[10:13] <SpeedEvil> Over a dozen recievers are not unusual for one transmitter. But these will mostly be of less use to you - unless you can encourage local hams. It's quite easy to setup.
[10:13] <SpeedEvil> All you need is a SSB 433MHz capable reciever, and the custom software.
[10:13] <SpeedEvil> Ranges have exceeded 500km with fairly reasonable equipment
[10:14] <HixWork> OZ1SKY i believe is from Denmark. He was certainly involved in a Danish flight in Jan '13 [SKYHAB]
[10:16] <SpeedEvil> srp84: Are you aware of the predictor? http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=3ed1157b670bd9ddcfe7456cca588bfb0cae9b2f - a launch now from Copenhagen.
[10:17] <SpeedEvil> Would end up close to olofstrom
[10:17] <srp84> thanks for the info - i never realised anyone else in DK was doing this
[10:18] <srp84> I'll talk to him about the tracking as well
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[10:19] <srp84> as for the predictor, we were using that - and also our own predictions (we're researchers so have access to the hi-res forecasts). Relative to the habhub prediction the landing site was off by 15km, not too bad.
[10:20] <srp84> and i suspect part of that was because our descent rate was faster than calculated
[10:22] <SpeedEvil> Did you find the payload?
[10:22] <HixWork> here's what i could export from the database, seems to have gone a bit wrong at the start and end though http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/download/1371118611-20318-78.86.159.23.html
[10:25] <srp84> a member of the public found it, yes.
[10:26] <srp84> it landed about 500m away from a major airport, which is worrying. The error in the landing predictions couldn't have put it in a worse place!
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[10:33] <HixWork> that doesn't sound too good. #lucky
[10:36] <eroomde> Ugi: darkside is an aussie
[10:37] <eroomde> new toy
[10:37] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/atnqynzht29hhcm/2013-06-13%2011.35.32.jpg
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[10:39] <cardre> eroomde: nice! I'm still deciding what to buy for my first DSO, but that one looks like it would be out of my price range!
[10:39] <eroomde> yes it's not something you want to pay for yourself
[10:40] <eroomde> let work pay for that kind of thing
[10:40] <HixWork> your ruler is always photobombing :)
[10:40] <eroomde> my ruler is my standard photobomb item
[10:40] <eroomde> i carry it around for work, it's a habit
[10:41] <eroomde> useful when documenting some disaster of a wiring job that you need to fix
[10:41] <cardre> what is the new one replacing?
[10:41] <eroomde> an old tektronix
[10:42] <eroomde> basically for my money, with DSOs, it's all about memory depth and triggering options
[10:42] <eroomde> and that 4ch are really really useful but i appreciate that does horrible things to the rice
[10:42] <eroomde> prince*
[10:42] <eroomde> price*
[10:42] <eroomde> but i think the new rigol range looks good
[10:43] <HixWork> DSO's really spoil the rice
[10:43] <cardre> the rigol was the one I was looking at, probably with one of those firmware hacks to double its bandwidth, but that's an older one
[10:43] <eroomde> yeah, if possible i would get the new one if the price difference is not too much of a deal breaker
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[10:43] <eroomde> the mem depth is great
[10:43] <eroomde> it can do intensity which is useful
[10:44] <eroomde> waveforms per sec is higher which is very useful
[10:44] <eroomde> and it has some very good math options
[10:44] <eroomde> intensity/persistance, i should say
[10:44] <eroomde> and the screen is bigger
[10:45] <eroomde> but memory depth is basically the sexytime feature. it's great to be able to really zoom in on single-shot logs of things
[10:45] <eroomde> especially if you want to use it as a sort of logic analyser too
[10:45] <cardre> which model are you talking about?
[10:45] <eroomde> you can record quite like packet streams
[10:45] <eroomde> 2xxx
[10:45] <eroomde> forget exactly
[10:45] <eroomde> 1 sec
[10:46] <eroomde> infact just watch this for a side by side with the old rigols
[10:46] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TSr9nFN1GU
[10:47] <Darkside> anyone got HF RX capability atm?
[10:47] <Darkside> in the UK
[10:47] <cardre> yeah Dave eevblog is what was get me onto the 1052E in the first place, then with the firmware hack, I alsmost bought it
[10:47] <srp84> hix: yeah, was a bit lucky - but we were coordinated well with ATC so flights were stopped. interesting test of prediction accuracy though :)
[10:48] <cardre> but I'm not doing enough work with DSO to justify just yet, still just amatuer hacking
[10:48] <HixWork> srp84, that's fortunate. Could have been very messy without co-ordination.
[10:49] <HixWork> by the way, have you seen the wiki?
[10:49] <HixWork> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:radio_modules:ntx2
[10:51] <srp84> yep, was reading that this morning
[10:52] <fsphil> Your DSO is bigger than my DSO
[10:52] <srp84> we have plenty of arduinos so I want to test it out with that before we decide if we should include it on the next balloon
[10:54] <HixWork> fsphil, whats your best range you've had from an NTX2 Rx-wise?
[10:54] <fsphil> about 600km-ish I think
[10:54] <HixWork> there you go srp84 reason enough :)
[10:55] <fsphil> yea the range is impressive
[10:55] <Darkside> cool, NVIS propagation works
[10:55] <Darkside> i can hear my beacon at bath from hack-green
[10:55] <Darkside> wherever the hell that is
[10:55] <HixWork> plus if you announce the launch on the mailing list you'd be surprised how much of the continent is involved in tracking
[11:01] <srp84> sounds good! I'll definitely pick up the ntx
[11:02] <Darkside> it works when your payload is upside down too!
[11:02] <Darkside> unlike sat stuff
[11:02] <srp84> and will also announce the next launch here. maybe i can also test in reverse and see if I can pick up any of your UK launches from here in DK
[11:02] <srp84> our sat transmitter had multiple antennae, so worked in all orientations. we experienced that problem with rockets in the past ;)
[11:03] <Darkside> still, the RTTY stuff is damn reliable
[11:03] <Darkside> doesnt cost as much
[11:03] <srp84> yep, i'd rather have multiple redundant means of tracking/telemetry
[11:03] <Darkside> and doesnt use as much power
[11:04] <srp84> yeah, our previous radio ate power - something like 700mW
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[11:04] <daveake> srp84 Whereabouts in DK are you?
[11:05] <srp84> Copenhagen, but we launch from near silkeborg in jutland
[11:05] <daveake> ah ok
[11:05] <daveake> Was up near the NW coast near Thisted yesterday
[11:06] <daveake> You have a lot of water to aim at :)
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[11:08] <srp84> Tell me about it!
[11:08] <srp84> makes finding a suitable launch day quite hard
[11:09] <fsphil> yea that's a pain
[11:09] <srp84> have any of you had experience using SDR to track the NTX? We have several funcube pro+ dongles and i'd be interested in knowing how well those work for tracking. the ukhas wiki doesn't seem optimistic!
[11:10] <mfa298> funcube pro+ works well.
[11:10] <mfa298> it's similar in performance to using something like the FT-817
[11:10] <HixWork> I've had great results with a very cheap SDR
[11:10] <srp84> also, the other downside of launching from DK is that most of the bits without water have trees instead. makes finding the payload rather challenging
[11:11] <Darkside> very well
[11:11] <srp84> ok, sounds good
[11:11] <srp84> i was thinking about getting the ft-817, so if the funcube works just as well then that's one less thing to worry about
[11:12] <mfa298> the rtl-sdr dongles aren't as sensitive as the Pro+ but a few people have used them (I've used one a few times as well). There's also the HAB Amp on the HAB store which helps.
[11:12] <Darkside> not really required with a FCD++
[11:13] <fsphil> FCD++ would have been a better name
[11:13] <Darkside> yeah
[11:13] <Darkside> thats what i always call it
[11:13] <mfa298> not all rtl-sdr dongles are equal as well. Some have worked fairly well (E4000 tuners?) but others have been pretty deaf.
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[11:13] <mfa298> FCD++ does that make the next model the FCE ?
[11:14] <Darkside> FCD+++
[11:14] <fsphil> with the current naming scheme, the next one is probably the Funcube Dongle Pro Plus Extra
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[11:17] <srp84> sounds promising, I'll have a play with the funcube+ntx and see what's what.
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[11:19] <srp84> but time to go. thanks for all your advice. I'll definitely be back on here to chat, and let you know of our future launches
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[11:24] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> FCE is clear, as is FCF. Is the next FCG or FD0?
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[11:31] <iDrac> good afternoon
[11:32] <iDrac> http://kaymontballoons.com/Near_Space_Photography.html
[11:32] <fsphil> howdy
[11:32] <iDrac> is there a better place to order balloons within EU?
[11:32] <mfa298> http://randomaerospace.com/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html
[11:33] <iDrac> thank you
[11:33] <mfa298> there maybe others as well but thats whats normally recommended
[11:38] <cuddykid> anyone know a cheap source for lithium AAs?
[11:38] <daveake> 7dayshop
[11:39] <daveake> It varies but they were the cheapest when I bought a few packs last week
[11:39] <cuddykid> cheers
[11:42] <cuddykid> crazy £6 delivery charge
[11:42] <fsphil> ooch
[11:42] <cuddykid> might order a few more then
[11:44] <cuddykid> buyabattery.co.uk worked out cheaper in the end
[11:44] <cuddykid> £2.95 deliv
[11:44] <cuddykid> and pretty much same price
[11:45] <daveake> ok
[11:46] <daveake> Issue is that RM won't (if they know) ship Lithiums
[11:46] <daveake> So they have to, well should, go by DHL or whoever
[11:46] <cuddykid> oh haha
[11:46] <daveake> Anyhoo I bought enough packs to make the £6 not a problem :)
[11:46] <cuddykid> they must sneakily ship with RM
[11:46] <daveake> I think so
[11:47] <cuddykid> in fact, when I had a batch from energizer direct, they sent with RM iirc
[11:47] <UpuWork> Tescos have AA lithiums on for a £5 a pack atm
[11:47] <UpuWork> my local one anyway
[11:48] <daveake> Not bad
[11:48] <cuddykid> not bad at all for tesco
[11:48] <daveake> These ar £4.39 so you need to buy a few to get that delivery cost back
[11:49] <cuddykid> time to clear this pi down
[11:49] <cuddykid> hoping for 1 or 2 flights next week
[11:49] <cuddykid> tues / wed / thurs before I go to london for 10 weeks
[11:50] <HixWork> Amazon £5.50 with free delivery http://goo.gl/IZQzc
[11:50] <Laurenceb> batteryforce?
[11:51] <Laurenceb> http://www.battery-force.co.uk/?via=pg&bt=kg4&gclid=CLuE5_P74LcCFaXMtAodSGQAEg
[11:57] <Brace> anyone got a recommendation for a good battery charger? pref one which does all the common sizes and has a nice progress display?
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[12:31] <ibanezmatt13> Good Afternoon :)
[12:35] <ibanezmatt13> We've decided that for our first launch, we're not going to use SSDV. This is because we want to have the full flight recorded in HD with the Pi Cam instead of using a normal HD camcorder (mainly because we don't have one which has a good enough battery life).
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[12:36] <ibanezmatt13> Even though we could record the video in intervals and take a low res image for sending in between videos, we may miss the video of the burst which we don't really want to miss :)
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[12:38] <ibanezmatt13> However, if our first launch is successful, we're going to send a second one up with two payloads. That is, two radio transmitters and two Pi's - One Pi to take pictures and send them with SSDV, the other is for telemetry. This second flight will also have temperature sensors in each box. The idea being that one box will be made out of cardboard!
[12:39] <ibanezmatt13> My Dad creates chemicals for cardboard production and he believes that he can make a good insulating, completely waterproof box which can withstand temperatures of -50c!
[12:39] <Brace> ibanezmatt13: you're letting your dad build you a box then?
[12:39] <ibanezmatt13> Basically yes :)
[12:40] <ibanezmatt13> I'm building the first one and then I have to tell him the dimensions of the second one so he can get his company to make it
[12:41] <ibanezmatt13> Should be a decent experiment: Can cardboard protect electrical equipment at the edge of space? :)
[12:43] <eroomde> yes
[12:44] <ibanezmatt13> Different is always good :)
[12:44] <eroomde> but i mean, do the experiment anyway
[12:44] <eroomde> but, yes
[12:45] <ibanezmatt13> The Pi Model A should be here tomorrow. Then, Soldering Sunday awaits
[12:45] <eroomde> at university we had a thing called sicide sunday
[12:45] <eroomde> but it was less constructive than i suspect soldering sunday would be
[12:45] <eroomde> suicide*
[12:46] <Ugi> you need to inhale rather a lot of solder fumes to committ suicide!
[12:46] <Ugi> in the short term anyway
[12:46] <HixWork> Brace google Imax B5, it does lipo, NiMh, LiFe Pb etc etc
[12:46] <ibanezmatt13> Lead, or Lead-Free, is there a comprimise?
[12:47] <eroomde> no because they're discrete things
[12:47] <eroomde> use leaded
[12:47] <ibanezmatt13> ok :)
[12:47] <Ugi> is it less brittle at low tmep then?
[12:47] <eroomde> less brittle, melts at a lower temperature, easier to rework, doesn't have such bad problems with whiskers
[12:47] <eroomde> not that most hab payloads have a long enough life for whiskers to be an issue
[12:47] <fsphil> those cats again, getting into everything
[12:48] <eroomde> fast as lightening
[12:48] <Ugi> I was impressed!
[12:48] <ibanezmatt13> For soldering onto the Pi, do I just solder some wire onto those TP1 and TP2 points?
[12:49] <eroomde> http://www.electronicstheory.com/COURSES/ELECTRONICS/pic/TinWhiskers.png
[12:50] <eroomde> i've not played with a pi so i don;t know
[12:50] <ibanezmatt13> I guess I should use one stranded wire
[12:50] <daveake> yes and yes
[12:50] <eroomde> but generally, don;t trust wires soldered onto test points to be rigid mechanically
[12:50] <eroomde> they will almost always break off unless you help them stay down with something like hot-melt glue
[12:50] <eroomde> or you very thoroughly stress-releive the wire some other way
[12:50] <ibanezmatt13> Oh right, I thought it;d be pretty solid
[12:51] <eroomde> no
[12:51] <daveake> These are proper holes fairly wide diameter
[12:51] <eroomde> wires to board are a massive nono as a general rule
[12:51] <eroomde> unless they are through-hole
[12:51] <daveake> they are
[12:51] <eroomde> oh if it's through hole then fine
[12:51] <ibanezmatt13> Good good :)
[12:51] <ibanezmatt13> I've pretty much messed up one of my regulators, hopefully it's fixable
[12:52] <daveake> Yeah, if these were pads on one side, the wire will fall off soonber or later, taking the pad with it
[12:52] <ibanezmatt13> I soldered some multi stranded wire onto each corner. Works ok but looks terrible
[12:52] <daveake> sooner
[12:53] <Ugi> Always tin the end of multi-stranded wire first
[12:53] <ibanezmatt13> Didn't do that...
[12:53] <daveake> always do that
[12:53] <Ugi> that would be why you got the mess
[12:53] <ibanezmatt13> I guess I can just cut it off and do it properly.
[12:53] <ibanezmatt13> Though it's probab;y irreversible
[12:53] <ibanezmatt13> probably*
[12:53] <Ugi> unsoldering can be a b**ch
[12:54] <ibanezmatt13> in that case, I might as well just pick up another one seen as they're so cheap
[12:54] <Ugi> depending on the tools you have
[12:54] <ibanezmatt13> I have a small 25w soldering iron and I'm using a dish cloth to clean it :)
[12:54] <ibanezmatt13> Great setup
[12:54] <Ugi> If you have a solder pump you could probably re-do OK.
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[12:55] <Ugi> if not, might like to get one.
[12:55] <Ugi> sometime
[12:55] <ibanezmatt13> In the future at some point, I'll improve my soldering equipment
[12:55] <eroomde> solder pump?
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[12:56] <Ugi> This type of job: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm//261160439609
[12:56] <Ugi> very handy for those little mistakes
[12:56] <Ugi> not that I make any!
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[12:56] <ibanezmatt13> looks good
[12:56] <ibanezmatt13> Afternoon GW8RAK
[12:56] <eroomde> oh yes the suckers
[12:57] <eroomde> i prefer brain
[12:57] <eroomde> er
[12:57] <eroomde> braid
[12:57] <Ugi> brain is also handy
[12:57] <Darkside> much better for SMD stuff
[12:57] <eroomde> i find braid completely necessary for smd rework
[12:57] <Darkside> yup
[12:57] <eroomde> solder sucker would take 0402s with it :)
[12:57] <Darkside> braind and liquid flux
[12:57] <GW8RAK> Hi ibanezmatt13
[12:57] <ibanezmatt13> So yes, for the first launch, we're probably going to have to give SSDV a miss. We want ideally to record the full flight on the Pi Cam without intervals
[12:58] <eroomde> but i do use suckers to, for example, clean out solder cups on connectors and so on
[12:58] <eroomde> also flux pen
[12:58] <eroomde> flux pen and solder braid
[12:58] <Ugi> I've not done significant SMD work as yet.
[12:58] <GW8RAK> I won't be able to get over to Bolton this week, so it'll probably be in about 2 weeks time
[12:58] <eroomde> with those two you are set
[12:58] <eroomde> all i do nowadays is smd work
[12:58] <ibanezmatt13> GW8RAK: Not a problem, whenever will do me :)
[12:58] <Darkside> not a fan of flux pens
[12:58] <eroomde> or cables and connectors
[12:58] <Darkside> most of the ones i'v eused have had crap flux in them
[12:58] <eroomde> amazing how much time it takes to make up a connector
[12:58] <Darkside> i use liquid rosin and a little syringe bottle dispensor
[12:58] <GW8RAK> Should have been an easier week at work, but it's actually been manic
[12:59] <eroomde> getting through it tho
[12:59] <Ugi> Darkside: example of rosin syringe?
[12:59] <ibanezmatt13> GW8RAK: To be honest, the number of exams I've had this week too, not been enjoyable
[12:59] <Darkside> hrm
[12:59] <Darkside> would have to find it on farnell
[12:59] <eroomde> honestly, that sounds like faff compared to just having a decent flux pen
[12:59] <Ugi> no prob's I'll google it
[12:59] <GW8RAK> Exams only last a few weeks. Work lasts years.
[13:00] <ibanezmatt13> true
[13:00] <GW8RAK> As you will find out!
[13:00] <Darkside> http://au.element14.com/multicomp/146-0010/flux-bottle-esd-20-gauge-2oz-each/dp/1503214
[13:00] <Darkside> this kind of thing
[13:00] <Darkside> but it has a syringe tip
[13:00] <Ugi> not given away
[13:00] <Ugi> wirth it, I guess then
[13:00] <Ugi> worth
[13:01] <eroomde> i have a couple of these
[13:01] <eroomde> http://uk.farnell.com/circuitworks/cw8200/dispensing-pen-rosin-flux/dp/130709
[13:01] <Darkside> http://au.element14.com/plato/fd-21/needle-flux-liquid-dispensing-bottle/dp/9616080
[13:01] <Darkside> that the one i use
[13:01] <ibanezmatt13> What happens if I solder the NTX2 onto some stripboard and it doesn't work? Am I completely stuffed?
[13:01] <Darkside> yeah i know the kind
[13:02] <Darkside> eroomde: the tip lets me get the flux where i want it, instead of having to pump the pen a few times
[13:02] <eroomde> true
[13:02] <eroomde> tho i only ever need flux to get something off the board
[13:02] <Darkside> i can control the amount of flux better too
[13:02] <Darkside> ahh
[13:02] <eroomde> so i rarely need to be that precise
[13:02] <Darkside> i hand-solder everything
[13:02] <eroomde> yes same
[13:02] <Darkside> so i use a lot of flux to do things like drag soldering
[13:02] <eroomde> well no, not same. i oven when i can
[13:02] <Darkside> yeah, i dont have an oven
[13:02] <eroomde> but i generally don;t need flux to sollder stuff down
[13:02] <eroomde> as the solder has flux in it
[13:03] <Darkside> so doe smine
[13:03] <Darkside> but never enough
[13:03] <eroomde> it's enough for me :)
[13:03] <Darkside> i cant do QFNs with it :P
[13:03] <Ugi> ibanezmatt13 - that's when you need the solder sucker!
[13:03] <eroomde> braid
[13:03] <Darkside> anyway, sleep time for me
[13:03] <eroomde> i can do qfns without flux
[13:03] <Darkside> eroomde: you need the flux to get the solder thats already on there moving
[13:04] <Darkside> without adding more solder
[13:04] <eroomde> just go for a moderately high heat but solder v quickly
[13:04] <Laurenceb> lurn 2 stencil
[13:04] <Darkside> then taking it away
[13:04] <eroomde> so as not to let the flux boild off
[13:04] <Darkside> yeah i just use flux + solder + heat
[13:04] <Darkside> and the solder goes where it needs to
[13:04] <ibanezmatt13> that may be a worthy investment then :)
[13:04] <Darkside> i've never killed a chip with heat
[13:04] <Brace> HixWork: thanks for that, I'll take a look
[13:04] <eroomde> i think i killed a venus gps chip a few years ago with heat
[13:04] <Darkside> Laurenceb: i dont have access to a reflow oven
[13:05] <eroomde> they seemed very delicate
[13:05] <Darkside> mm
[13:05] <Ugi> ibanezmatt13: you also don't need to solder it flush to the board if you think you might need to get it off!
[13:05] <eroomde> Darkside: access to a reflow oven is a $30 problem
[13:05] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, you can just desolder the NTX2 from the board. I've replaced the pins on one of mine no problems
[13:05] <Darkside> eroomde: toaster?
[13:05] <eroomde> yep
[13:05] <Darkside> but if you want decent control on it you need more
[13:05] <Laurenceb> or just a hot air tool
[13:05] <Darkside> Laurenceb: yeah i have access to that
[13:05] <Laurenceb> simple
[13:05] <ibanezmatt13> oh right, that's good
[13:05] <eroomde> well, there are off the shelf controllers to close the loop
[13:05] <Darkside> i do hot air rework
[13:06] <Laurenceb> then use a stencil with it
[13:06] <HixWork> I bought an Atten 858 for £42 and it's excellent for the money
[13:06] <Laurenceb> problem solved
[13:06] <Darkside> meh
[13:06] <Darkside> anyway
[13:06] <Darkside> sleep time
[13:06] <Laurenceb> cya
[13:06] <HixWork> night Darkside
[13:06] <eroomde> for hot air rework ive found a preheater to be a really excellent investment
[13:06] <eroomde> infact for soldering in general
[13:06] <Darkside> got oen of those
[13:06] <Darkside> hakko one
[13:06] <Darkside> love it
[13:06] <eroomde> they make life better
[13:06] <Darkside> k sleep
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[13:11] <cuddykid> part of next flight - http://imgur.com/9VaiO5h
[13:11] <cuddykid> going to be a huge rig
[13:12] <cuddykid> that 'man' is going to have a camera boom attached to him
[13:12] <cuddykid> then another big camera boom up above
[13:14] <Ugi> Where does he go relative to balloon & tracker? Is that the 'chute he's on or just for show?
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[13:17] <cuddykid> Ugi: about 3meters above
[13:17] <cuddykid> that's the chute he will be on
[13:17] <cuddykid> there will be another chute above tracking equip and 2nd boom
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[13:18] <cuddykid> hopefully mid-flight separation but I'm not sure it's going to work :S
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[13:22] <Ugi> like that idea
[13:22] <Ugi> hot wire?
[13:23] <cuddykid> pyro
[13:23] <Ugi> I'm wondering, in light of recent landings, whether I should try to implement landing detection and a hot wire to cut the string
[13:23] <cuddykid> this whole rig is going to be at least 2kg
[13:24] <cuddykid> extremely hard to do
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> Ugi: To avoid trees?
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[13:24] <Ugi> trees. yes
[13:24] <cuddykid> best way would be uplink
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if assuming weight on the string going away is sane.
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> Or can buffeting screw that.
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> ^force
[13:24] <cuddykid> yeah, I really don't want another tree landing this time haha
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[13:25] <SpeedEvil> I guess one option would be a simple n hour timer.
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> 'bugger, it's in a tree -> come back in 12h when the timer fires'
[13:25] <Ugi> I was just thinking software, if we have been <1000m and within a 100m window for 30mins then cutaway
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> Or a IR remote controlled thingy
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> Would be easy
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[13:26] <Ugi> not tried yet but I reckon a bit of nichrom wire on a lithium pp3 could cut through nylon string fast enough.
[13:27] <mfa298> I think I'd go for manual uplink for a tree cutdown.
[13:27] <mfa298> having it in a tree could be of use finding it initially - better range for getting a signal if you're unsure exactly where it is.
[13:27] <Ugi> IR means you need to have LoS to sensor thou'
[13:28] <cuddykid> yes, but a cutdown doesn't really help most flights when stuck in a tree
[13:28] <cuddykid> if the payload box becomes wedged then a cutdown isn't going to do anything when in the tree
[13:28] <HixWork> why not have a 70cm uplink?
[13:28] <cuddykid> wouldn't have helped either of my flights stuck in trees
[13:29] <cuddykid> you really need to detect/action before it lands in tree
[13:29] <cuddykid> and that's hard to do
[13:29] <mfa298> that probably depends on whats holding it in the tree.
[13:29] <Ugi> OK, I assumed it was mostly the line or 'chute that would catch
[13:29] <cuddykid> not for mine it wasn't
[13:29] <cuddykid> especially this time of year when all leaves are out
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: True
[13:30] <mfa298> also you probably don't want to cut away whilst it's still decending unless you're sure there's nothing to damage below (which probably requires you to be in the area)
[13:30] <Laurenceb> so you need a rogallo
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Or a butterfly net.
[13:30] <Ugi> what is a rogallo?
[13:31] <Laurenceb> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:mihab:p4130055.jpg?w=700
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> Ugi: It is a hypothetical means to return a payload to a specified location. Which has not yet in this channel worked. :)
[13:31] <cuddykid> or flying wing :P
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Life getting in the way of reflying?
[13:32] <cuddykid> that is going up at sometime in the future& not sure when though
[13:32] <Laurenceb> yes
[13:32] <Laurenceb> too busy
[13:32] <Laurenceb> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:ukhas_glider_project:pict7855.jpg?w=500
[13:35] <Ugi> Need 4-part system:
[13:35] <Ugi> Lift balloon - hover balloon - payload - ballast
[13:36] <Ugi> lift balloon fuller & bursts
[13:36] <Ugi> at 500m ballast drops
[13:36] <Ugi> payload hovers gently to gnd on hover balloon & is easily spotted & recovered
[13:36] <Laurenceb> lol
[13:37] <Ugi> it's a theory
[13:37] <Ugi> may not be much more
[13:37] <Phil_M0DNY> Or is dragged by wind across several miles of fields and roads..
[13:38] <Ugi> most liekly
[13:38] <Laurenceb> rogallo already
[13:38] <Ugi> likely
[13:38] <SpeedEvil> Teeny quadcopter with tree-avoidance guidance.
[13:38] <Laurenceb> fail
[13:38] <Ugi> ballast should be on a long string then
[13:39] <Laurenceb> better with chainsaw on the bottom
[13:39] <SpeedEvil> Did I link that kinda awesome string of circular saws on a helicopter?
[13:40] <Laurenceb> yes
[13:40] <Ugi> sounds distinctly scary
[13:41] <SpeedEvil> 1yj5QtFu2RA
[13:41] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yj5QtFu2RA
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[13:42] <SpeedEvil> Jesus, that looks 'interesting' flying.
[13:42] <Ugi> Thanks - I'll save the link for later - can't youtube at work.
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[13:47] <Ugi> cuddykid: do I take it your payload is still in that mahoosive tree?
[13:47] <cuddykid> Ugi: no, got recovered by monkey man last night :D
[13:47] <cuddykid> should hopefully get it tomorrow
[13:47] <Ugi> Hurrar!
[13:47] <Ugi> did it cost a packet to recover?
[13:49] <Ugi> Glad to hear you got your GoPro etc back.
[13:50] <Laurenceb> hehe US patent 6,845,262
[13:50] <Laurenceb> lolling
[13:52] <Ugi> Low field MRI?
[13:52] <Laurenceb> the diagrams
[13:57] <Ugi> you mean that they look like kid's chalk-drawings?
[13:57] <Laurenceb> yes
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[14:00] <Ugi> not too unusual to file like that but usually they ask you to file formal dwgs before they will grant it
[14:01] <Ugi> there is some truly weird sh*t in the world of patents
[14:02] <Ugi> seen this one? http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US3216423
[14:02] <Laurenceb> hahaha
[14:02] <Laurenceb> irl lolled
[14:02] <Ugi> my wife did not approve
[14:11] <HixWork> thats highly amusing. I will upset many female friends with this :D
[14:12] <Ugi> It's my all-time fav' mad patent idea.
[14:13] <Ugi> makes sense thou'
[14:13] <Ugi> in an incredibly crazy kind of way
[14:13] <Brace> that's nuts
[14:14] <Ugi> It's messy, that's for sure
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> Err, I'm sure that was thought of first, earlier by Heinlien.
[14:17] <Ugi> I confess I have not looked into the prior art background in any detail.
[14:21] <Ugi> According to this random piece of googling, the patent was 8 years earlier: http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=2987
[14:26] <SpeedEvil> Ah - right - time enough for love - 1973
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> Oh - right - that even cites that
[14:30] <Ugi> It's a fairly well known wacky patent but it's a favourite of mine.
[14:30] <Ugi> Just wouldn't like to clean up after!
[14:32] <HixWork> apparetly 1 in 300 women experience orgasm in childbirth
[14:32] <HixWork> wonder if that patent would affect the stats :)
[14:34] <Ugi> I shudder to think
[14:34] <Ugi> It would affect the number that die horribly, I would imagine
[14:36] <Ugi> on an utterly different note, has anyone here used ublox in i2c mode?
[14:36] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:36] <Laurenceb> it tends to die horribly if you set the update rate too high
[14:37] <Ugi> I get the impression from the datasheet that it's a case of watching bits 0xFD/0xFE for a new sentence and then reading it from 0xFF
[14:37] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:37] <Ugi> how fast is too fast?
[14:37] <Laurenceb> 5hz
[14:37] <Laurenceb> on ublox5
[14:37] <Ugi> OK.
[14:38] <Ugi> If I'm sending RTTY at 50 baud then 1 every 5/10/20 seconds would be enough I would think
[14:38] <Laurenceb> this was for ublox5 on my rogallo
[14:38] <Ugi> when UPU has some in, this should be ublox6.
[14:39] <Laurenceb> yeah, 6 is faster
[14:39] <Ugi> don't have one yet, just trying to formulate a strategy
[14:39] <Ugi> doesn't seem like a practical issue but I'll remember to keep the rate reasonable in any case.
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[14:41] <Ugi> I'm hoping to use i2c, keeping UART free for serial debug etc during development without needing soft serial
[14:42] <Ugi> might possibly use UART for a adafruit GPS for comparison.
[14:42] <Laurenceb> get a better micro :P
[14:43] <Ugi> yeah, that would do it, but I have some background in '328 using the Arduino IDE
[14:43] <Ugi> and there's only so much you want to learn at a time!
[14:43] <Ugi> might try a bigger AVR sometime
[14:44] <Laurenceb> use stm32
[14:44] <fsphil> 324 has two uarts
[14:44] <HixWork> ATMega324 fsphil ?
[14:44] <fsphil> HixWork: yep
[14:44] <fsphil> I've been using the larger version for a while, the 644p
[14:45] <fsphil> the 324p is the same just with less memory
[14:45] <Ugi> I used to speak ARM assembler back when it was first in the Acorn Archemedes but that's the last time I had anythign to do with them
[14:45] <HixWork> hmm i'll look up 644p, i need 2 uart for stablisation
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[14:46] <Ugi> bigger AVR may be my best way to go, 'cos there are Arduiino cores for some of them which would mean I can re-use some code.
[14:46] <Ugi> but for now an 8MHz '328 will do.
[14:47] <UpuWork> ublox chips are due in Monday
[14:47] <Ugi> Yay!
[14:47] <Ugi> Not that it's the GPS that's holding me back right now anyway
[14:47] <fsphil> HixWork: the ATxmega128A3U claims to have 7 uarts
[14:48] <Ugi> it's mostly work & kids diong that!
[14:48] <Ugi> who the hell needs 7 UARTS?
[14:48] <Ugi> When I was going to St Barts
[14:48] <Laurenceb> stm32 has 8
[14:48] <Ugi> I met a chip with 7 UARTS
[14:48] <Laurenceb> HA
[14:48] <fsphil> lol
[14:48] <fsphil> you win this time
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[14:50] <mfa298> need 8 UARTS so you can do the next line: each UART had 8 bits.
[14:50] <Ugi> works with 7 too!
[14:50] <mfa298> as long as you don't want to do ssdv
[14:51] <Ugi> and if you're running an ARM, you may as well, I guess
[14:55] <Laurenceb> https://www.olimex.com/Products/Duino/STM32/OLIMEXINO-STM32/
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[14:57] <Ugi> Wow! not seen those before - an ARM based Arduino-type-thingy?
[14:58] <Ugi> Did I read that Arduino Due was an ARM system?
[14:59] <Ugi> The thing I like currently is that I can make my own '328 boards that use the Arduino IDE.
[14:59] <Ugi> not sure I could hand-solder an STM32!
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[15:05] <HixWork> think 7 is a bit Ott for my needs. 644P sounds fine
[15:07] <Laurenceb> Ugi: yeah stm32 with arduino firmware
[15:08] <Ugi> The Due?
[15:08] <Ugi> Could be handy!
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[15:10] <HixWork> yay eagle file too :D http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/displayProduct.jsp?sku=1455121&CMP=KNC-GUK-FUK-GEN-LISTINGS&gross_price=true&mckv=YKMwxwd8|pcrid|14164337469|plid|
[15:11] <HixWork> link shortener worked there then :/
[15:11] <fsphil> it is shorter than usual for farnell
[15:12] <Ugi> I'm gonna have to buy a reflow oven!
[15:13] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/12/dark_lightning_threat_to_aircraft/
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[15:13] <Laurenceb> interesting balloon project
[15:14] <HixWork> i like the weight spec Weight (kg): 0.002188
[15:14] <HixWork> i was trying to keep it under 0.002175 ;p
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[15:52] <HixWork> So the 644P can be programmed via usb-ttl
[15:53] <fsphil> there are bootloaders you can put on it
[15:53] <fsphil> but normally you'd just use the ISP method
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[16:06] <Laurenceb> how do i buy underground tickets online?
[16:06] <Laurenceb> seems to be impossible?
[16:07] <eroomde> buying individual underground tickets is a tax on tourists
[16:07] <eroomde> just get an oyster card
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[16:17] <HixWork> would this sample request from Atmel be classed as taking the pi55?
[16:17] <HixWork> ATMEGA644P-20AU IC MCU 8BIT 64KB FLASH 44TQFP 3
[16:17] <HixWork> ATMEGA328P-AU IC MCU 8BIT 32KB FLASH 32TQFP 3
[16:17] <HixWork> ATXMEGA128A3U-AU IC MCU 8BIT 128KB FLASH 64TQFP 3
[16:17] <LazyLeopard> ...or get a travel card on the day.
[16:17] <HixWork> nah, get oyster then you've always got it. cheaper too
[16:17] <LazyLeopard> Not always.
[16:18] <HixWork> You can take the RFID chip out, dress up as a wizard and insert it into a wand if you wish, like some nut did once
[16:18] <LazyLeopard> Sometimes, especially if you use afternoon peak-time routes, a travel card can work out cheaper.
[16:19] <daveake> I bet someone's put the rfid chip into a sonic screwdriver
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[16:21] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
[16:24] <number10> fsphil: bird fottage http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f7d_1370973921
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[16:24] <number10> footage
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[17:12] <fsphil> number10: I've been doing the nest boxes wrong all this time
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[17:38] <SpeedEvil> ?
[17:38] Action: SpeedEvil wondered if to bother this year
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[17:48] <GadgetDroid> Upu: UpuWork lo
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[18:15] <Upu> hey Gadget-Mac
[18:16] <Upu> back in an hour
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[18:32] <anerDev> hi guys
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[18:41] <cn8dn> payload prix finished ?
[18:42] <cn8dn> price
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[18:42] <cn8dn> url sie
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[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:11] <fsphil-m> Yo
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:12] <KT5TK_QRL> Hi Lunar
[19:12] <ali> hi wanna chat
[19:12] <nigelvh> Howdy all
[19:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> Evein'g
[19:12] <KT5TK_QRL> Anybody planning to go to the UKHAS conference this year?
[19:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup when we know where it is !
[19:12] <fsphil-m> Hoping to go
[19:13] <KT5TK_QRL> Just trying to book flights
[19:13] <fsphil-m> Nice
[19:13] <nigelvh> Nice KT5TK_QRL. Give everyone a high five for me.
[19:14] <KT5TK_QRL> I have a reunion from high school the weekend after it near Munich
[19:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> so touring Europe I guess
[19:14] <KT5TK_QRL> And I may stay in South England the week before the conference
[19:15] <KT5TK_QRL> Just South England and South Germany
[19:15] <KT5TK_QRL> nigelvh: Yes I will
[19:16] <nigelvh> I forget, what are you working on these days KT5TK?
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[19:16] <KT5TK_QRL> So it's not sure where it'll be?
[19:17] <KT5TK_QRL> I'm just trying to get a PecanPico3 do RTTY
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[19:17] <ali> hi any boddy tlak to me
[19:18] <nigelvh> Is it not capable of RTTY presently?
[19:18] <KT5TK_QRL> Theoretically yes, but I need to write some code for it
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[19:20] <nigelvh> Ah, so not a hardware change then.
[19:22] <KT5TK_QRL> I'm just trying to write a Si446x library that is somewhat compatible to jcoxon's RF22 lib so that mods of many UK trackers can be easily changed
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[19:25] <nigelvh> Makes sense. Is the idea that you'll do the RTTY by modulating the VCXO or actually going to ask the 4464 to change frequencies?
[19:28] <KT5TK_QRL> The clean way would be to do it with two channels inside the Si446x. In either case I need to program the VCXO to tune to a distinct frequency, so regardless, I need to write code for both.
[19:30] <mikestir> hi all
[19:30] <mikestir> just thought I would say hello as by coincidence I've just written a RTTY tx for RFM22
[19:30] <mikestir> I used the fine tune regs
[19:31] <KT5TK_QRL> interesting
[19:31] <KT5TK_QRL> Do you share your code?
[19:31] <mikestir> I can do although it needs a clean up first
[19:31] <mikestir> the back story is that I have just been asked to do the telemetry on a HAB for a local school
[19:32] <mikestir> I already had some ATMEGA/RFM22 boards of my own design so cobbled the rtty thing together for a demo
[19:32] <mikestir> I'll stick it on github when it's done
[19:32] <mikestir> the main missing piece is that the bit timing needs to go onto a timer interrupt
[19:32] <KT5TK_QRL> Thanks. I'm open for all ideas.
[19:33] <KT5TK_QRL> However the channel resolution of a Si446x is in the range of a few Hz
[19:33] <KT5TK_QRL> So it should be doable that way
[19:33] <mikestir> currently testing on an 868 MHz version because I'm waiting for some 434 MHz modules. I can get 300 Hz shift. Should be half that on the 434 MHz version.
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[19:34] <KT5TK_QRL> Are you in the UK or in the US?
[19:34] <mikestir> uk
[19:34] <nigelvh> Get a divider and you could probably do wspr with the 4464.
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[19:34] <anerDev> hi guys !
[19:34] <nigelvh> Or any other DDS/Frac-N PLL that covers the HF bands.
[19:35] <KT5TK_QRL> Maybe WSPR on 2m directly...
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> Do check the lock time is sane though
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> An accurate PLL that takes a second to lock isn't going to be of much use
[19:36] <anerDev> I have a question about NTX2
[19:36] <anerDev> the vcc is 5V and the TDX pin are connected directly to gnd
[19:37] <anerDev> the frequency of output is 434.650 MHz ?
[19:41] <nigelvh> Only if you can get the appx 1.5hz shift.
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[19:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> anerDev Yes the lower the voltage the lower the frequency, nominally 434.650
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[19:51] <anerDev> and if i put txd = 5v ?
[19:51] <anerDev> what's the f out ?
[19:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> One second or so whilst I look at the datasheet
[19:53] <fsphil-m> The max range is 0-3v
[19:53] <mikestir> anyone here with some experience of using a 70cm RTTY downlink under SRD restrictions (10mW)?
[19:53] <fsphil-m> but for rtty you'd want a lot less
[19:54] <fsphil-m> 70cm 10mw is what is normally used in the uk
[19:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> They don't appear to quote a Hz/V sensitivity.
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[19:56] <mikestir> fsphil-m: the maths suggests that with, say, a 7 ele yagi the rssi will be pretty big even at 70-80k ft. does that sound reasonable?
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[19:57] <anerDev> and a 3v what's the outpt ?
[19:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah here we are 2Khz/V according to the write up on the Wiki http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2?s[]=ntx2
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[20:00] <eroomde> mikestir: yes that sounds fine
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[20:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Actually I would have thought that it would be expectd to be a symmetrical deviation around the nominal frequency so 0V would be nominal-3KHz and 3V nonimal+3KHz
[20:00] <eroomde> 10mW 70cm rtty is the standard here
[20:00] <eroomde> just a whip antenna on each end does the job
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[20:02] <mikestir> eroomde: thanks. it's good to have some confirmation
[20:04] <fsphil> we've gotten some impressive ranges with it
[20:04] <fsphil> the narrow bandwidth of rtty really helps
[20:04] <nigelvh> Yep
[20:05] <fsphil> I often decode the signal from 500km away
[20:05] <fsphil> though only after it's up quite high
[20:06] <mikestir> are there any uk launches coming up?
[20:06] <fsphil> I think so
[20:06] <fsphil> not sure about this weekend
[20:07] <fsphil> but I think someone mentioned planning a launch in the next few weeks
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[20:07] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: was planning a launch sometime this weekend I think
[20:07] <mfa298> posibly 16th ?
[20:07] <fsphil> there's a slim chance I might launch something too
[20:07] <chrisstubbs> 14th at 3:30pm
[20:07] <fsphil> but predictions are really bad at the moment
[20:08] <fsphil> ooh tomorrow?
[20:08] <chrisstubbs> yeah thats the plan :D
[20:08] <fsphil> sweet
[20:08] <fsphil> what are you launching?
[20:08] <chrisstubbs> will be live streaming and all if it goes according to plan
[20:08] <chrisstubbs> chelmsford
[20:08] <mfa298> still planning on trying to float it ?
[20:08] <chrisstubbs> pico/floaty style thing
[20:08] <chrisstubbs> *trying* yeah, no idea if it will work or not. just a bit of fun
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[20:09] <mikestir> i'm in the north west so that will be a challenge
[20:10] <mfa298> I think the record for receiving balloons is around 800km.
[20:10] <mfa298> there's good line of sight once it's up in the atmosphere!
[20:10] <fsphil> the 800km one wasn't even line of sight, there was some interesting propagation going on there
[20:10] <GadgetDroid> mikestir: you can get allot watching the tracker, and irc
[20:11] <chrisstubbs> i have a hysplit hang on
[20:11] <eroomde> that's a kind of helium induced hangover ^
[20:11] <fsphil> very good
[20:11] <chrisstubbs> may as well run a new one actually this is a few days old
[20:11] <chrisstubbs> lol
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> hi chrisstubbs
[20:12] <mfa298> as long as you've got a radio capable of recieving ssb and a half decent antenna you should be able to receive things
[20:13] <mikestir> I have a discone in the loft and the newer RTL-SDR sticks seem to be more sensitive than the E4000 ones
[20:13] <mikestir> I'll set that up
[20:13] <fsphil> a pico may not get high enough
[20:13] <fsphil> they don't have the same kind of coverage as a latex balloon
[20:13] <fsphil> which can cover basically all of the UK, and well into france and holland
[20:14] <chrisstubbs> what altitude would a latex even float at
[20:14] <chrisstubbs> foils are usualy 5km or so
[20:14] <chrisstubbs> the same, or at their burst height?
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, we've seen balloons bound to 40 km by inflation to start floating at 37 km
[20:14] <fsphil> depends, I remember one floating at about 35km for a while
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> that is why the record was not broken until hydrogen was used
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[20:18] <chrisstubbs> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/17443_trj001.gif
[20:18] <chrisstubbs> this thing is going in the sea 100% :P
[20:19] <fsphil> 20km float?
[20:19] <chrisstubbs> hysplit crapped out when i put in 35k
[20:19] <fsphil> what balloon are you using?
[20:19] <chrisstubbs> 200g :/
[20:19] <fsphil> be very cool if you managed to float that
[20:20] <chrisstubbs> lol yeah i have my doubts
[20:20] <chrisstubbs> will probably just be a reasonably long flight due tot he low ascent
[20:23] <fsphil> still worth a try
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[20:23] <ibanezmatt13> Good Evening :)
[20:24] <ibanezmatt13> My Pi Model A has arrived! I think everything's working OK but I'm not happy with how it was delivered with Farnell...
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> :) :(
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> Why not?
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> Did they tie it to a brick and chiuck it through your window?
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> Or drop it from 35000m?
[20:24] <ibanezmatt13> The Pi was in nothing but a cardboard box, crushed underneath the heaviest Farnell catelogue ever!
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[20:24] <fsphil> the cardboard box is normal
[20:25] <ibanezmatt13> Literally, 5 times thicker than an Argos one
[20:25] <ibanezmatt13> The carboard parckinging was crushed
[20:25] <ibanezmatt13> I can't spell today
[20:25] <fsphil> welcome to my world
[20:25] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[20:25] Action: SpeedEvil remembers an early computer order, with a 4MB stick lying in the bottom.
[20:25] <fsphil> or should that be wrold
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> And this was when this was £600 per SIMM
[20:25] <fsphil> eek
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> And lots of heavy stuff
[20:25] <mfa298> if you're really lucky you'll start getting farnell sales things several times a month as well.
[20:26] <fsphil> I don't remember memory being that expensive
[20:26] <ibanezmatt13> Anyways, I tried a new tactic with regards to powering everything
[20:26] <fsphil> guess I couldn't afford it :)
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> And 4M was a reasonable amount.
[20:26] <ibanezmatt13> Well, the tactic we discussed
[20:26] <fsphil> speaking of Pi, I must wire up mine
[20:27] <ibanezmatt13> Both NTX2 and GPS were powered from the 3.3v regulator. The multimeter suggested that 3.3v exactly was coming out of the regulator. I tuned in and when you would expect to here a constant tone, it was all over the place, much like before but worse in fact
[20:27] <mfa298> I got frustratted with one of mine the other day. kept on corrupting SD cards - althoguh I'm not sure if that's an SD card issue or power issue.
[20:28] <fsphil> the Pi is quite fussy when it comes to SD cards
[20:28] <ibanezmatt13> Really getting quite annoyed with it now. I've tried so many things
[20:28] <fsphil> I had one get corrupted after properly shutting it down
[20:28] <fsphil> have you got caps on both input and output of the vreg?
[20:29] <ibanezmatt13> It's a full component, not just a 3 pin regulator. It's got capacitors all over it
[20:29] <mfa298> I thought I'd used those ones before but could be wrong - one of the SD cards is similar to one I've got running raspbmc happily
[20:29] <ibanezmatt13> they're really good for outputing really smooth regulated voltages. They're very low drop out and are very efficient
[20:30] <fsphil> does it still happen if you disconnect the gps?
[20:30] <mfa298> that sounds like marketing blurb (rather than datasheet) talk
[20:30] <ibanezmatt13> I must admit, I have better results without GPS.
[20:30] <fsphil> yea you won't know how well regulated it is unless you put it on a scope
[20:31] <ibanezmatt13> The NTX2 outputs a much better signal than with the GPS
[20:31] <fsphil> I'd also put a capacitor on the vcc input to the gps
[20:31] <ibanezmatt13> Already got one
[20:31] <ibanezmatt13> Pushed right up to the pins
[20:32] <fsphil> breadboard can also cause issues
[20:32] <fsphil> I'm about to make a similar circuit on breadboard
[20:32] <iain_G4SGX> Just worked out what max error I will have on the TX baud rate due to slightly shorter interrupt routines on stop & start bits, 0.01%.. Think that's acceptable? I could reduce that error if needed..
[20:33] <ibanezmatt13> Well I was hoping to solder everything onto stripboard on Sunday but now I'm in doubt
[20:33] <fsphil> iain_G4SGX: yep :)
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[20:34] <ibanezmatt13> I purchase some 2.54mm headers for going onto a prototype stripboard so that I wouldn't have to make it permanent until I was confident. Yet, the amazing headers don't even break apart
[20:35] <mfa298> it could work better on stripboard.
[20:35] <ibanezmatt13> I might as well try it on stripboard.
[20:35] <mfa298> you know it will be a good connection when it's soldered. Breadboard isn't always so good
[20:35] <ibanezmatt13> Despite the fact that we've had this conversation so many times, I'm now in doubt as to what I should do for power.
[20:36] <ibanezmatt13> I could have 9V into NTX2 with no regulation, 5V from the 5V reg like the Pi, or 3.3v from the same reg as the GPS.
[20:36] <ibanezmatt13> 3.3v would be better option but that has just returned worst results
[20:38] <mfa298> I'd probably stay away from powering the NTX2 from the same as the Pi (as the Pi probably pulled more power than the gps)
[20:38] <mfa298> Just remember to do the right thing with resistors depending on what you do.
[20:38] <ibanezmatt13> Oh
[20:38] <ibanezmatt13> Hmm
[20:39] <ibanezmatt13> In fact, the resistors values I used should have still been ok earlier
[20:39] <ibanezmatt13> I calculated it for 3.3v VCC
[20:39] <ibanezmatt13> And that setup worked worse than with 5v
[20:40] <fsphil> just remember one resistor goes to gnd, the other goes to 3.3v - regardless of what's powering the ntx2
[20:40] <mfa298> What fsphil said.
[20:40] <mfa298> the wiki page isn't particularly good on this. You want the Logic VCC not the NTX2 VCC
[20:41] <daveake> And if you then get dodgy signals form the NXT2, the fault is the 3.3V line (or dodgy wiring)
[20:41] <ibanezmatt13> Ah, well on my previous setup I had one resistor from the potential divider going to 5v
[20:41] <ibanezmatt13> And that sort of worked
[20:41] <fsphil> it'll work but the shift will change
[20:41] <daveake> And if you're using a model B PI with a 5V USB PSU, then the 3.3V line probably is all over the place
[20:41] <mfa298> it would have worked with 5v (you'll be centered around 2.5v) It wont work from 9v (centered around 4.5v)
[20:41] <ibanezmatt13> I'm using a model Aa now :)
[20:41] <daveake> Ditto a model A with WLAN
[20:41] <ibanezmatt13> A*
[20:42] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: I wasn't powering anything off the 3.3v line from Pi
[20:43] <ibanezmatt13> I was using a...oh. Would a standard 9v alkaline pp3 be ok?
[20:43] <daveake> a what? what for?
[20:43] <ibanezmatt13> Those PP3 square batteries
[20:43] <ibanezmatt13> For NTX2 and GPS
[20:43] <ibanezmatt13> 9V PP3 into 3.3v reg, into NTX2 and uBlox
[20:43] <daveake> you can
[20:44] <daveake> but I suspect the Pi 3.3V line is your problem
[20:44] <ibanezmatt13> I wasn't using it though
[20:44] <daveake> The whole Pi uses it
[20:44] <fsphil> your uart is though
[20:44] <ibanezmatt13> Oh I see
[20:44] <ibanezmatt13> Sorry, I thought you just meant the 3.3v pin, pin 1
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> I still would have thought that the UART would have been OK though. It's been OK in previous attempts...
[20:46] <daveake> Back to basics, the NTX2 frequency depends on the voltage between the data input to the NTX2, and the GND pin on the NXT2
[20:46] <daveake> The supply to the NTX2 matters very little as it has its own regulator.
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[20:46] <Upu> ping Gadget-Mac
[20:46] <GadgetDroid> Loop
[20:46] <GadgetDroid> Lo
[20:46] <Upu> evening
[20:46] <Upu> pm
[20:46] <daveake> So first thing make sure the NTX2 ground is connected directly to 0V on the Pi GPIO connector
[20:47] <ibanezmatt13> It is
[20:47] <daveake> and the data input goes via resistors to the same GND, the Pi UART output, and the Pi 3.3V line
[20:47] <ibanezmatt13> I made sure that all grounds were connected
[20:47] <ibanezmatt13> I was using 3.3v from batteries
[20:47] <ibanezmatt13> battery
[20:47] <daveake> Then send something out of the Pi UART and tell us if the signal is good. No batteries. no GPS.
[20:48] <ibanezmatt13> The NTX2 is perfect without the GPS
[20:48] <ibanezmatt13> And it does work with the GPS but it has a really bad signal. It's all over the place
[20:49] <daveake> and you have everything wired as I said above?
[20:49] <ibanezmatt13> Yes
[20:50] <daveake> And the GPS is powered from where?
[20:50] <mfa298> was the resistor connected to 3v3 on the battery reg or the Pi ?
[20:50] <ibanezmatt13> I've tried the GPS on both the batteries and the Pi's 3.3v line. mfa298 I tried both
[20:50] <ibanezmatt13> Same result
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[20:51] <ibanezmatt13> I mean it works, but with a really wonky signal
[20:51] <daveake> Cannot be
[20:51] <mfa298> not the gps power, The resistor from the NTX2 to 3v3 ?
[20:51] <mfa298> which 3v3 supply was that connected to ?
[20:51] <ibanezmatt13> resistor from NTX2 to 3.3v, I've tried it from Pi 3.3v and regulator
[20:51] <daveake> Is this all on a breadboard?
[20:51] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[20:52] <ibanezmatt13> I'm putting it onto a prototype stripboard on Sunday
[20:52] <daveake> That probably explains it then
[20:52] <ibanezmatt13> I'll use headers so it's not permanent
[20:52] <Upu> get on to PCB asap or you spend 80% of your time diagnosing faults caused by the prototyping board
[20:52] <daveake> The NTX2 signal voltage is changing, due to the 3.3V rail being pulled down or the GND being pulled up
[20:53] <daveake> And with a breadboard any didgy connection is liable to do just that
[20:53] <daveake> dodgy
[20:53] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right
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[20:54] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: I've never looked into PCBs, I think I'd better stick to stripboard for now
[20:54] <Upu> better than nothing :)
[20:54] <fsphil> well it's still a PCB :)
[20:54] <ibanezmatt13> I suppose
[20:54] Nick change: [1]Geoff-G8DHE -> Geoff-G8DHE_
[20:54] <fsphil> I've seen breadboard do very odd things
[20:55] <fsphil> I had tried my 869mhz module on breadboard and it was putting out an awful signal
[20:55] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, well I'll sort that on Sunday then
[20:55] <daveake> I saw it work once. that was odd
[20:55] <fsphil> yes it often works fie
[20:55] <fsphil> fine*
[20:55] <ibanezmatt13> So for the prototype stripboard job, NTX2 VCC will be...? 3.3v perhaps?
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[20:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
[20:56] <daveake> Doesn't really matter
[20:56] <daveake> What matters are where the resistors go
[20:56] <fsphil> howdy tom
[20:56] <ibanezmatt13> Do resistors depend on VCC input seen as NTX2 has a regulator on board?
[20:57] <ibanezmatt13> Even though it will be getting 3.3v on VCC
[20:57] <daveake> Think about it
[20:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> hi fsphil
[20:57] <daveake> The regulator is just controlling the voltage the innards of the NTX2 run from
[20:57] <daveake> What matters is the signal voltage that the NTX2 sees
[20:58] <ibanezmatt13> Ah ok, that's fine then
[20:58] <daveake> And that depends on those 3 resistors and exactly where they go
[20:58] <ibanezmatt13> I've calculated a 480 shift with my current setup
[20:58] <daveake> Which should be a nice clean 0V, nice clean 3.3V, and the Pi UART
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[20:59] <daveake> Any noise on that 3.3V line will directly affect the NTX2 frequency
[20:59] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: how shall I make connections on RPI GPIO permanent on my stripboard?
[20:59] <mfa298> I'll upload a sketched version of how it should be connected when dropbox does its thing
[20:59] <daveake> And if you made the mistake of wiring it to a battery, it'll drift as the battery discharges
[20:59] <ibanezmatt13> Surely I can't just solder directly onto the pins
[20:59] <daveake> Of course you can
[20:59] <ibanezmatt13> Oh right, just normal 1 strand wire?
[21:00] <daveake> Only if it won't be bending often
[21:00] <mfa298> here's how the ntx2 bits should be done https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14636926/2013-06-13%2021.58.42.jpg
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[21:00] <HixPad> Whoop. Made a sample order with atmel. 3@328 3@644 and 3@ATXMEGA128A3U-AU. They've shipped them already priority courier :D
[21:00] <mfa298> (hopefully I got that right)
[21:00] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks mfa298 I'll read it
[21:01] <chrisstubbs> HixPad, win! they seem to have ignored my latest request
[21:01] <daveake> yup nice pic :)
[21:01] <ibanezmatt13> very nice pic
[21:01] <mfa298> only a quick sketch but as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words
[21:01] <HixPad> Think my @stratosvision.com address may have swayed any decision
[21:01] <ibanezmatt13> So I use Pi's 3.3v line for the NTX2's data line
[21:02] <daveake> It's what I said and what the diagram says :)
[21:02] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks mfa298 and daveake
[21:02] <ibanezmatt13> I must sign out now, last ever GCSE exam tomorrow, maths. Better get to sleep. Thanks again for the help and on Sunday I should hopefully have this working. Good night :)
[21:03] <daveake> nn
[21:03] <mfa298> the 3v3 and gnd lines are just acting as a voltage reference point for the NTX input
[21:03] <HixPad> To paraphrase Jarvis cocker I'm sorted for ics
[21:03] <ibanezmatt13> that makes sense actually. Thanks mfa298
[21:03] <ibanezmatt13> Night all
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[21:03] <HixPad> Night
[21:04] <HixPad> Too slow
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[21:05] <eroomde> power supplies are nice
[21:06] <fsphil> I wanna good one
[21:07] <mfa298> I probably ought to get a decent bench psu along with all the other things I don't have space for.
[21:07] <SP9UOB-Tom> ping X-f
[21:08] <x-f> hey, SP9UOB-Tom
[21:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: in sending a PICO to You :-)
[21:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=f21a20eb7a255023010636640e80b8cf40bee28b
[21:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: can You track it :) ?
[21:10] <SP9UOB-Tom> should be not so far from You :-)
[21:10] <x-f> i will sure try to track it
[21:10] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: have You any HAM-friends in Belarus ?
[21:10] <x-f> nope
[21:10] <SP9UOB-Tom> or lithuana
[21:11] <x-f> either :/
[21:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> what a pity :-(
[21:12] <chrisstubbs> Who is PD4KDZ
[21:13] <steve_____> Power supplies are nice but I want an oscilloscope - can't justify buying one though
[21:13] number10 (56aacfba@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.170.207.186) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[21:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> chrisstubbs: http://qrz.com/db/PD4KDZ
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[21:14] <chrisstubbs> Does he appear on here a lot? Would be awesome if he could track on friday for me
[21:14] <mfa298> steve_____: my problem is I want oscilloscope, logic analyzer, Antenna VNA, Bench PSU and probably other stuff (but not sure I have space for any of it)
[21:14] <chrisstubbs> ideal position
[21:15] <steve_____> The list is never ending!
[21:15] <steve_____> This sol space problem http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Nano-ARM-DSO201-Pocket-Size-Handheld-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-/111044717173?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item19dac7ea75
[21:16] <steve_____> only 1MHz though
[21:16] <chrisstubbs> Looks like an MP3 player :P
[21:17] <chrisstubbs> it probably used to be until the chinese put a different firmware on it
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> That is to scopes what a miniature poodle is as to a girlfriend.
[21:18] <chrisstubbs> sums it up quite nicely
[21:18] <mfa298> probably good enough for diagnosing a dodgy psu but might not do much more
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7562232064/hEF834B22/
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> It would be useful for stuff like 'why is my raspberry pi crashing'
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> If you just wanted to look at the power voltages
[21:19] <x-f> SP9UOB-Tom, HYSPLIT forecast, if it floats - http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/15463_trj001.gif
[21:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: i have did overpressure valve - it MUST float :-)
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[21:20] <x-f> ooh, nice
[21:22] <x-f> i'll alert the local radio people tomorrow morning, maybe someone will have contacts in Lithuania or Belarus
[21:24] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: thanks, e-mail me please :-)
[21:25] <anerDev> good night guys !
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[21:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: if there be no trackers - i vave to postpone launch :-(
[21:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: if there be no trackers - i have to postpone launch :-(
[21:28] <x-f> well, i can't promise you anything, but i'll let you know if there will be positive replies
[21:28] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: thanks
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> hello SP9UOB-Tom
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> I got an info for you
[21:35] <eroomde> http://uk.farnell.com/bi-technologies-tt-electronics/rb/counting-dial-15-turn-1-13-16-diam/dp/9431950
[21:35] <eroomde> this is so beautiful
[21:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> Lunar_Lander: im listening :-)
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> we will fly a electrometer payload on a balloon launched at Lichtenberg near Berlin some time in July
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> with an NTX2 434.650 MHz
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> that might be interesting to you
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:39] <x-f> SP9UOB-Tom, what will you be transmitting? standard 434 MHz, USB, RTTY?
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[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> as this is not our own balloon, we don't have a date yet
[21:39] <SP9UOB-Tom> Lunar_Lander: please post to ukhas list - we will listen :-)
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> will do when I have further details :)
[21:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: 437.600 MHz USB RTTY 50 baud 7n2
[21:43] <x-f> kthx
[21:43] <x-f> i'll post this info tonight
[21:44] <x-f> as i'm way past my bedtime anyway
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[21:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: should be over Belarus at saturday's morning
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[21:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> F... moskitos
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[21:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> time to bed - night all
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[22:24] <heathkid|2> whew! I'm back. :)
[22:25] <heathkid|2> can anyone answer a trackuino question?
[22:25] <KT5TK_QRL> What was the q?
[22:26] <heathkid|2> any clue why my telemetry is showing up with the project name of "Battery State Tracking" when that's not what's in the code?
[22:27] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> http://lewiscollard.com/cameras/hdr-sucks/
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> ^lolling
[22:35] <KT5TK_QRL> heathkid You mean on APRS.fi?
[22:35] <heathkid> yes
[22:36] <KT5TK_QRL> This is created by sending APRS messages to your call sign
[22:36] <KT5TK_QRL> You can overwrite it the same way
[22:36] <heathkid> spacenear doesn't seem to support APRS telemetry (yet)
[22:36] <heathkid> that's not what I'm sending
[22:36] <KT5TK_QRL> No, spacenear.us doesn't
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[22:37] <heathkid> no one had asked yet I guess... so I asked. :)
[22:37] <heathkid> maybe someday
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/airchinapilot/2312975136/in/photostream/
[22:37] <heathkid> how do I overwrite it?
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[22:37] <jcoxon> Ping upu
[22:38] <KT5TK_QRL> Send an aprs message to KA8MAV-11
[22:38] <heathkid> hmm
[22:39] <KT5TK_QRL> Wait, I'll look up the syntax
[22:40] <heathkid> thanks
[22:41] <heathkid> I'm using UI-View32 and *think* I can send a message...
[22:41] <heathkid> never tried
[22:42] <KT5TK_QRL> Send the following messages to the tracker callsign.
[22:42] <KT5TK_QRL> In Xastir skip the ":"
[22:42] <KT5TK_QRL> :PARM.Batt,GPSpwr,Alt,TXpwr,ADC3,NA,NA,NA,NA,NA,NA,NA,ISS
[22:42] <KT5TK_QRL> :UNIT.V,V,feet,V,V,NA,NA,NA,NA,NA,NA,NA,visible
[22:42] <KT5TK_QRL> :EQNS.0,0.05195,0,0,0.01289,0,0,1000,0,0,0.01289,0,0,0.01289,0
[22:42] <KT5TK_QRL> :BITS.11111111,Pecan High Altitude Balloon Telemetry
[22:42] <KT5TK_QRL> This is what I use
[22:43] <heathkid> here's the code I'm using:
[22:43] <heathkid> prog_char string_0[MAX_TEMP_SIZE] PROGMEM ="PARM.Temp/I,Temp/E,Alt,Vin,FixQ,LowP\0";
[22:43] <KT5TK_QRL> The line after BITS is where you change the comment for the project
[22:43] <heathkid> prog_char string_1[MAX_TEMP_SIZE] PROGMEM ="UNIT.deg.F,deg.F,m,volts,sats,on\0";
[22:43] <heathkid> prog_char string_2[MAX_TEMP_SIZE] PROGMEM ="EQNS.0,.1,0,0,.1,0,0,7,0,0,.01,0,0,1,0\0";
[22:43] <heathkid> prog_char string_3[MAX_TEMP_SIZE] PROGMEM ="BIT.1,Trackuino (BALLOON)\0";
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[22:44] <heathkid> should that be...
[22:44] <heathkid> BITS.11111111, Project Name
[22:44] <heathkid> ?
[22:45] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, that's what it could be.
[22:45] <heathkid> I'll give it a try... thanks!
[22:45] <KT5TK_QRL> Depending if and what BITS you use or not
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[22:46] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Sometimes auto HDR in capture would be nice. http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/3618667767/ - say
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> I'd love to be able to blow out the sky and keep the foreground.
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> (And yes, I know that wasn't what he was talking of)
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[22:56] <heathkid> KT5TK: hey! it worked!!! THANKS!!!
[23:00] <KT5TK_QRL> great!
[23:01] <KT5TK_QRL> Nice QTH at the lake...
[23:01] <heathkid> thanks :)
[23:02] <heathkid> one of these days I'll actually launch the tracker! lol
[23:02] <heathkid> have everything except helium
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[23:02] <heathkid> both a 600g and 1200g balloon as well as 18", 24", and 36" parachutes
[23:03] <heathkid> I keep having to go smaller due to the payload not weighing very much
[23:04] <heathkid> might have to add ballast! :)
[23:04] <KT5TK_QRL> Simply add less helium
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[23:10] <heathkid> eh... I do want a fast ascent to burst for first launch
[23:10] <heathkid> I'll play with floaters later...
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: yeah, but HDR doesnt work
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> from an "increase the number of ADC bits" point of view
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> loads of cheap cameras at 8bit
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> which when you think about it is really crappy
[23:11] <SpeedEvil> I know - it's the wierd artificial mapping that comes with it that is usually used.
[23:11] <heathkid> right now basing all my predictions on a 300g payload
[23:11] <heathkid> I'll be *lucky* to get it up to 100g
[23:11] Action: Laurenceb_ is no camera nut
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> i was looking into cameras for eclipse capture
[23:12] <Laurenceb_> and suprised how "pro" you have to go to get a decent number of bits
[23:12] <SpeedEvil> Quite.
[23:12] <heathkid> well, haven't built the enclosure yet so that'll add some
[23:12] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Well - there is also the fact that oversampling gets you more
[23:12] <heathkid> looking into Vacuum Insulated Panels (yep... google them)
[23:12] <heathkid> NOT cheap and have to be custom made (can't cut them)
[23:12] <SpeedEvil> heathkid: don't bother.
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[23:12] <Laurenceb_> high altitude eclipse photography will stress the dynamic range
[23:12] <heathkid> why?
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> heathkid: see above
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> blerg.. work 2morrow
[23:13] Action: Laurenceb_ zzz
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> nighjt
[23:13] <heathkid> how far above?
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> your line
[23:13] <heathkid> about weight?
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> NOT cheap and have to be custom made (can't cut them)
[23:14] <heathkid> ah
[23:14] <heathkid> well, if they can form them the way I want them to
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> I was looking idly at them for making a big freezer
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> Just get http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1400ml-Three-Tiers-Double-Wall-Stainless-Steel-Vacuum-Food-Flask-Jar-With-Handle-/221144391361?hash=item337d3b9ec1
[23:14] <heathkid> I got to test with some the other day
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> Also - small VIPs suck
[23:15] <heathkid> why?
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> The edges conduct a lot
[23:15] <heathkid> ah
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[00:00] --- Fri Jun 14 2013