highaltitude.log.20130610

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[01:30] <nigelvh_> Anyone on with a 1.8V atmel based board?
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[03:47] <arko> haha
[03:47] <arko> i've been messing with my sdr all day hearing static and signal
[03:48] <arko> so i finally shut everything down to relax for the evening
[03:48] <arko> but i keep hearing ax.25 packets
[03:48] <arko> i thought it was in my head, but it turns out my handheld radio i used for testing was still on with super low volume
[03:48] <arko> gah
[04:54] <x-f> morning
[04:56] <x-f> heathkid, you said you wanted to fly a 1mW transmitter, yesterday's Titan-One did that
[04:56] <x-f> it was a mistake in the code, but still a fair amount of people managed to receive it
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[06:06] <ibanezmatt13_> Good Morning :)
[06:07] <x-f> it is Monday, you optimist!
[06:07] <ibanezmatt13_> I tried powering only the NTX2 off the Pi, and the uBlox GPS off its own 3.3v regulator from some batterries. I got the same result as yesterday. When I activate the Pi Cam, the frequency goes all over the place.
[06:07] <x-f> good morning, Matt
[06:07] <ibanezmatt13_> x-f, I'm always omptimistic :) Good morning
[06:08] <ibanezmatt13_> Nothing like some troubleshooting before an exam ;)
[06:08] <x-f> have you tried running just the cam and NTX2 or cam and GPS?
[06:08] <ibanezmatt13_> yep, this morning just now tried NTX2 and Pi Cam on Pi, and GPS powered externally by battereis.
[06:08] <ibanezmatt13_> No luck :(
[06:09] <ibanezmatt13_> Also yesterday tried it with Pi only powering GPS on 3.3v line. But I found out that the Pi's 3.3v line is limited to a certain current, one that the GPS exceeds
[06:09] <ibanezmatt13_> So because the NTX2 doesn't draw as much current, I run it on the Pi's "better" 5v line
[06:10] <ibanezmatt13_> This means that the Pi is now only powering the NTX2 and the Pi Cam
[06:10] <griffonbot> Received email: Mike Willis "RE: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - frequency use"
[06:10] <ibanezmatt13_> It's almost like a power issue when the Pi Cam demands power, but I'm really not sure, I've tried almost every setup
[06:10] <x-f> i would try disconnecting the GPS completely for troubleshooting
[06:11] <ibanezmatt13_> I've tried that too
[06:11] <x-f> ah
[06:11] <ibanezmatt13_> Same result
[06:13] <ibanezmatt13_> just tried it now, not even got GPS connected at all
[06:17] <x-f> have you tried measuring the current draw on all devices?
[06:17] <ibanezmatt13_> nope, but I'm just trying something now
[06:18] <x-f> does the camera work without issues?
[06:18] <ibanezmatt13_> ok, I've not solved the problem but I've identified the issuew
[06:19] <ibanezmatt13_> If I only use the Pi to power the Pi Cam, and use the batteries to power the NTX2, running the Pi Cam does not affect the frequency at all
[06:19] <ibanezmatt13_> So it was definitely a power issue.
[06:19] <ibanezmatt13_> But this now means that I have to power the NTX2 and the GPS off the batteries as opposed to the Pi
[06:19] <ibanezmatt13_> camera works fine yes :)
[06:21] <ibanezmatt13_> I suppose running the NTX2 and Ublox from their own regulators from the Lithium batteries will be ok?
[06:22] <x-f> NTX2 yes, i don't know which GPS you have
[06:22] <ibanezmatt13_> Ublox Max 6
[06:22] <ibanezmatt13_> No onboard voltage regulation thought
[06:22] <ibanezmatt13_> though*
[06:22] <ibanezmatt13_> It draws more than 50mA
[06:23] <ibanezmatt13_> Wwhich is what the Pi's 3.3v line is limited to
[06:23] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "Re: [UKHAS] Launch announcement - Chalgrove 10 June - Vortex Flight 6"
[06:23] <ibanezmatt13_> I'm not sure why the NTX2 gives me the same problem but nevertheless, running both components off the batteries with their own regulators shouldn't be too much of an issue. So the Pi will only be connected via RX and TX, and will be powering Pi Cam
[06:24] <ibanezmatt13_> I've got to get ready for school now, History exam this morning :(
[06:24] <x-f> picam shouldn't have affected NTX2, imho
[06:24] <ibanezmatt13_> I agree
[06:24] <x-f> good luck with the exam!
[06:24] <ibanezmatt13_> Thanks a lot! Have a good day :)
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[06:32] Nick change: Upu2 -> UpuWork
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[06:56] <x-f> Upu, ping
[07:03] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - frequency use"
[07:04] <UpuWork> hey x-f
[07:05] <x-f> hi, glad to see you using this nickname again :)
[07:06] <x-f> UpuWork, if i ordered an NTX2 now, would it be delivered to Bradford till the end of the week?
[07:07] <eroomde> dog-walk-courier
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[07:21] <UpuWork> bradford ?
[07:21] <UpuWork> sorry x-f was on the phone
[07:21] <UpuWork> where in Bradford ? I could drop it off
[07:22] <griffonbot> Received email: Chris Atherton "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - frequency use"
[07:22] <x-f> Applehaigh Close
[07:22] <x-f> the other side from Halifax
[07:23] <UpuWork> not quite Bradford thats almost Leeds but not far
[07:23] <UpuWork> If you order now will be posted today or you're welcome to call in and get it
[07:23] <UpuWork> is this you personally ?
[07:23] <x-f> no, my sister is there
[07:24] <UpuWork> oh ok
[07:24] <x-f> mail will be easier, thanks
[07:24] <UpuWork> should be there tommorrow morning as long as the post office don't cock up
[07:25] <x-f> ok
[07:25] <UpuWork> Just need the order before 11am UK time thanks
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[07:32] <spiruel> hello - is there a general consensus on whether spherachutes or rocketman parachutes are better?
[07:33] <spiruel> I'm impatiently waiting for the Spherachute 24" to come back in stock... But I don't know how long I need to wait...
[07:33] <eroomde> spherchutes, i would say
[07:33] <eroomde> rocketman chutes look like a terrible geometry
[07:34] <eroomde> i have used neither so do what you like
[07:34] <spiruel> no problem, thank you
[07:34] <eroomde> but I do have some parachute experience more generally
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[07:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Rick Hewett "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - frequency use"
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[07:54] <SpeedEvil> hah
[07:54] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - frequency use"
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[08:05] <WillDuckworth> anyone know when the raspberry pi camera module is generally available?
[08:06] <daveake> Sold out
[08:06] <UpuWork> is your name daveake ? If so immediatly how many would sir like
[08:06] <daveake> lol
[08:06] <daveake> ssh my secret is blown
[08:07] <WillDuckworth> lol
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[08:14] <griffonbot> Received email: Mike Willis "RE: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - frequency use"
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[08:16] <G6WTR> Raspberry PI camera seem CPC could be better bet for supply 01772 654 455
[08:19] <fsphil> CPC are out too
[08:19] <daveake> yup
[08:20] <daveake> You can get fleeced on ebay
[08:20] <daveake> or wait
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[08:20] <fsphil> hah
[08:20] <daveake> They made 10,000 in the first run
[08:20] <fsphil> I'm after a few more myself
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[08:23] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - frequency use"
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[08:25] <Jess--> just been looking over the raw data from titan-one yesterday, it looks as though we lost power on landing, last airborne sentence 1272, 1st sentence received after it was on the ground 74
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[08:25] <daveake> batteries in a holder?
[08:26] <Jess--> I do know it hit the ground hard enough to seperate the battery holder from the polystyrene case of the payload
[08:26] <Jess--> yes daveake 2 x aa lithium ultra in a holder
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[08:27] <daveake> Battery holders have springs. The batteries push against the spring one end and when hitting the ground lose contact the other end
[08:28] <number10> I think ANU reset at the weekend - even though I had tape round the batteries
[08:28] <daveake> Ditto on PIE4
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[08:28] <daveake> Which is why it never did the ftp photo upload - it thought it hadn't taken off yet
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[08:29] <Jess--> if there is weight to spare would a hefty cap maintain power for the fraction of a second that the batteries disconnect?
[08:29] <Jess--> thinking supercap or equiv
[08:30] <daveake> Solder the wires straight to the batteries
[08:31] <Phil_M0DNY> Solder the batteries and then use some kind of small connector/terminal block to connect them at the launch site would be my suggestion.
[08:31] <daveake> Those ones used for R/C are ideal
[08:33] <Jess--> ok, that's something to do for the next one
[08:34] <fsphil> more work but worth it
[08:34] <fsphil> just be careful not to apply too much heat to the battery
[08:34] <Jess--> what is the convention on naming if the same payload is in use, should we jump to titan-two or titan-one-a ?
[08:35] <fsphil> entirely up to you :)
[08:35] <fsphil> I've started using random names
[08:35] <fsphil> numbers are so 2012
[08:35] <fsphil> wait
[08:35] <daveake> I used a number for my 2nd flight then stopped
[08:36] <Jess--> ok, think we will go with titan-two and only add an A if it is a secondary payload
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[08:38] <Jess--> overall I am pleased with how titan-one went yesterday
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[08:38] <number10> what do you mean fsphil numbers are so 2012" ;)
[08:38] <number10> is it time to change nick
[08:39] <daveake> You'd have to lose the 10
[08:39] <daveake> er, and "number"
[08:39] <daveake> * number10 is now known as null
[08:39] <number10> what are you trying to tell me daveake :(
[08:39] <Jess--> wouldn't null = 0
[08:40] <daveake> Fortunately for him, no :)
[08:40] Action: LazyLeopard has ReBoot flashbacks...
[08:40] <Jess--> only a coder would say that nothing does not = 0 ;)
[08:40] <daveake> exactly
[08:41] <LazyLeopard> ...and MegaByte's pet Null Nibbles...
[08:41] <Jess--> I have some more info on the balloons that titan uses
[08:41] <Jess--> ebay item 251283690873
[08:41] <griffonbot> Received email: Colin Tuckley "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - frequency use"
[08:41] <Jess--> 200g if I am reading the right part
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[08:49] <M0JCU> Vortex flight is on track for a launch some time between 11:00 and 11:30 am.
[08:49] <UpuWork> cheers M0JCU
[08:49] <griffonbot> Received email: Mike Willis "RE: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - frequency use"
[08:49] <UpuWork> whats estimate burst alt ?
[08:49] <M0JCU> just need to get the second payload which is stuck in traffic :)
[08:49] <M0JCU> Release altitude is 25km
[08:50] <UpuWork> and final burst ?
[08:50] <M0JCU> Burst altitude (for HelioSS) is then 32 ish
[08:50] <M0JCU> rate of ascent will increase significantly once the first payload has gone. Hopefully it won't overstress the balloon on release
[08:51] <UpuWork> I'd redo the prediction as its close to the M4 atm
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[08:59] <number10> i forgot to bring radio in
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[09:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> With so many channels in use I guess at least one would have interference on it ! http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/VORTEX_etal_20130610/
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[09:14] <UpuWork> now you're just showing off G8DHE :)
[09:15] <Phil_M0DNY> Just saw the HABE situation... we need a UKHAS tree climber!
[09:15] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - frequency use"
[09:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Any volunteers ?
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[09:18] <Alchamist> I have a chainsaw ... much easier than climbing trees ... ;)
[09:19] <GMT> if the retreiver cannot get to the ballon, then the balloon must come (down) to the retreiver
[09:21] <Phil_M0DNY> One idea that was mentioned to me was finding some way to limited the lifetime of the cord after launch, so the cord would degrade/disintegrate after a day or two.
[09:22] <eroomde> make it out of fat and nuts
[09:22] <Phil_M0DNY> Would be a fine art though, having an unreliable link between payload and parachute isn't the best idea..
[09:22] <eroomde> attach it to the payload by setting it in some sugar
[09:22] <eroomde> then hope it rains
[09:22] <Phil_M0DNY> ha yeah!
[09:22] <Alchamist> put a remote controlled cutaway just above the payload?
[09:22] <eroomde> use an explosive with a slow fuse
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[09:24] <GMT> but you'd need to be quite close to activate the remote cutaway
[09:25] <Alchamist> I assume you'd have found your payload dangling in a tree to know you'd need to use the cutaway ...
[09:25] <Alchamist> ;)
[09:26] <GMT> you would need the cutaway immediately above the payload
[09:26] <Phil_M0DNY> GMT or just have it trigger 3 hours after burst?
[09:26] <eroomde> if you can do burst detection then you can do alnding detection
[09:26] <eroomde> so you don;t really need to spaff with timers
[09:26] <eroomde> landing*
[09:26] <Phil_M0DNY> true
[09:26] <eroomde> you can just get it to cut away after landing
[09:27] <GMT> Phil: how does it know it's landed
[09:27] <Phil_M0DNY> yep, and cutaway between payload and chute is easy I think, easier than between chute and balloon.
[09:27] <eroomde> GMT: it's not going down anymore
[09:27] <Phil_M0DNY> GMT: if altitude <1000m && last 3 fixes: ascent rate < 1
[09:27] <Alchamist> But would you want it to cut away on just a nomral landing? Or only if it's hanging off a tree/lampost/hv line etc?
[09:28] <GMT> so if you get a delay in launching (weather, etc), would it suddenly trigger the '3 hour rule'?
[09:28] <eroomde> so do a remote control
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[09:29] <Phil_M0DNY> GMT: With obvious (&& burst_has_happened)
[09:29] <eroomde> i presume you have a finite state machine that detects you have been up and come back down again
[09:29] <eroomde> snot brain surgery
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[09:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> If it has landed, a passer-by might have picked it up, so no explosive or pyro-device is going to be usable!
[09:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> Has to be manually triggered by remote when on site
[09:30] <Phil_M0DNY> I would just use hot-wire I think.
[09:31] <eroomde> and have a disram switch that completely removes power from the pyro circuit
[09:31] <eroomde> but this is all standard stuff
[09:31] <Alchamist> Also, why waste a perfectly good cutaway for a normal landing?
[09:31] <eroomde> because perfectly good cutaways cost about £2 in parts?
[09:33] <eroomde> i'm on the side of remotely operated close-range triggering, having said all this
[09:34] <eroomde> as i think stateful flight logic is something that should be minimised where possible
[09:36] <Phil_M0DNY> RFM22/CC1101 packet trigger kidn of thing?
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[09:36] <eroomde> well whatever
[09:36] <eroomde> that's just details
[09:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> doesn't have to be radio even ultrasonic or even DTMF audio signal should be adequate
[09:37] <Phil_M0DNY> Fair enough! Dog Whistle - "here boy!", payload obediently drops to your feet
[09:37] <fsphil> bat-activated cut-down
[09:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> lol
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[09:38] <eroomde> there are lots of ways to skin the cat of sending a single instruction about 100m
[09:38] <Jess--> I would stick with dtmf rather than ultrasonic, we have no info on what not antenna wires whistle at during descent
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[09:39] <Jess--> where did that not come from
[09:39] <eroomde> but we should definitey now assume that antennas whistle and that it's definitely a problem and then propose complicated solutions to this problem
[09:39] <eroomde> just like the frequency usage thread on the mailing list
[09:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> he he
[09:39] <Phil_M0DNY> lol
[09:40] <UpuWork> Geoff I'm going to reject that mail you just sent due to lack of content :) Also it was answered about 10 mails previously so don't take it personally!
[09:41] <Phil_M0DNY> I think we should all go DSSS, solve all the problems!
[09:41] <eroomde> think of the noise floor!
[09:41] <GMT> in other matters ... news from the Far East ... suggestions that it may have been a weather balloon (!) - http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/516449-object-strike-fl-262-a.html
[09:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> When we put GB3VV (2.3GHz video repeater) on after a week we saw what looked like a flight sim program running
[09:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> only appeared about 11:00 and 15:00 every day
[09:41] <fsphil> weird
[09:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> after a while we noticed it wasn't a flight sim at all
[09:41] <GMT> Geoff: local school wifi setup?
[09:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> just he RAF doing training flights up the channel
[09:42] <Alchamist> And there's nothing worse than a training flight up your channel ...
[09:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> one jet had a CCTV setup using a video sender thay had tweaked the freq. of onto the repeater input channel by chance
[09:43] <GMT> got copies of the video?
[09:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> probaly do have them stuck away somewhere several years ago now
[09:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> I'll have a search
[09:45] <SpeedEvil> :-)
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[09:53] <griffonbot> Received email: Rick Hewett "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - frequency use"
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[09:59] <GMT> what news from HABE yesterday, was it recovered?, any info why the signal was so bad?
[10:00] <Babs> ping eroomde
[10:00] <eroomde> pong Babaganoosh
[10:00] <Phil_M0DNY> GMT: http://i.imgur.com/PddrdKy.jpg
[10:00] <GMT> HELIOS just launched
[10:01] <Graham-G3VZV> getting signals from vortex
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[10:05] <eroomde> That was a pong to you Babs, just incase babaganoosh didn't set off your little client pingading thing
[10:05] <M0JCU> Balloon in the air!
[10:05] Nick change: LazyLeopard -> LazyL_M0LEP
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[10:06] Action: LazyL_M0LEP picks on VORTEX3
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[10:07] <Babs> babaganoosh didn't ping me eroomde, but i'm not a big fan of aubergine so perhaps that is the answer
[10:07] <eroomde> no me neither
[10:07] <eroomde> when you go to expensive tapas places with girls they always seem to go for it
[10:07] <eroomde> i resent
[10:08] <eroomde> Moro is about pork and chillies
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[10:08] <GMT> rather have roast prok and crackling
[10:09] <eroomde> any which way does fine
[10:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> Vortex good sig, Helioss looks a bit odd ?
[10:10] <HixWork> slow cooked belly pork ftw
[10:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah Helioss now OK
[10:11] <daveake> That's landing near me. Shame I'm not near me.
[10:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> Vortex3 decoding as well
[10:12] <GMT> Daveake: I think they're aiming for your launch field
[10:12] <daveake> not far off!
[10:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> No chance with Vortex-4 massive interfering signal
[10:12] <daveake> bad timing I'm away today
[10:12] <GMT> I think they've got enough people chasing this/these
[10:12] <daveake> 100 HAB points for landing on the white horse
[10:12] <Babs> I am not sure I have ever taken a girl to an expensive tapas place
[10:13] <Babs> although plenty to cheap ones
[10:13] <Babs> anyhows
[10:13] <Babs> i have my IMU all nicely calibrated
[10:13] <gonzo_> cheap tepes, or cheap girls?!
[10:13] <LazyL_M0LEP> VORTEX4 is definitely a trickier signal
[10:14] <Babs> if it is in the same plane as a dining table and defining z as coming out of the floor, and x and y parallel with the table
[10:14] <Nerdsville> vortex coming in nicely in Nottinghamshire
[10:14] <Babs> rocking to the horizontal is pretty rapid, although rotating around the z axis it appears to take its time to line up
[10:14] <eroomde> odd
[10:15] <eroomde> with magnetics?
[10:15] <Babs> is that a characteristic of a magnometer (my iphone compass isn't sometimes the quickest either)
[10:15] <Babs> or is it bad calibration
[10:15] <Babs> yes, all sensors working together
[10:15] <Babs> i don't think there should be any reason why it is slower, but just thought i would double check
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[10:16] <eroomde> are you doing any filtering?
[10:16] <Babs> yes, some filtering although it is not my own
[10:16] <Babs> i am just delving into the firmware code
[10:16] <eroomde> could well be in there
[10:17] <Babs> it is now quite stable w.r.t time, 1 degree drift every hour or so
[10:17] <eroomde> also depends on the bandwidth of the magnetometer
[10:17] <eroomde> it shouldn't drift at all really, if it's gyros referenced to accels and mags
[10:17] <LazyL_M0LEP> Getting VORTEX4 some of the time.
[10:17] <eroomde> that problem is moderately easy to solve, it's a question of accuracy and dynamic performance really
[10:17] <Babs> i think it definitely needs some work. just looking to get it working per se at the moment, and then improving it
[10:18] <eroomde> yes good idea
[10:18] <eroomde> kalman filters are the way to do it but you can iterate into that
[10:18] <Babs> i admire this guy's novel attempt at fan assisted stability, until about 45 seconds in when it goes comedy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDMEx4SSG2Q
[10:18] <Babs> that's what i figure.
[10:20] <Babs> replicating this would do the job. looks like the same hardware i have http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0SFAdPUUYs
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[10:26] <fsphil> spacenear is looking funky right now
[10:26] <fsphil> it's like art man
[10:26] Nick change: Mike -> Guest10148
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[10:28] <daveake> Makes a change from the weekend's etch-a-sketch
[10:29] <fsphil> hehe yea
[10:30] <fsphil> it was a mw-starved weekend
[10:30] <daveake> Matt chose a poor weekend to try tracking
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[10:33] <fsphil> yea
[10:34] <gonzo_> I'm actually getting useable signals from vortex and the LNAs are all powered down at home. so I have huge cable losses
[10:35] helioss_chase (5c28fd67@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.40.253.103) joined #highaltitude.
[10:36] <mfa298> I think I'm even seeing sigs on the RTL with no extra amp for this.
[10:36] <mfa298> just needs some decodes
[10:36] <M0JCU> Struggling to receive from mission control in Chalgrove. It's gone 10km up and about 1 km horizontal so we're in the null
[10:37] <fsphil> ah interesting
[10:37] <fsphil> must be a really calm day
[10:37] <GMT> very calm day here, almost no wind
[10:37] <helioss_chase> same here, getting a lot of broken strings - signal very low
[10:37] <fsphil> the high altitude winds should move it soon
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[10:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> Very rapid climb compared to horz. http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/VORTEX-6_20130610/index.php?ind=2
[10:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> Vortex3 drifitng low quite rapidly
[10:39] <GMT> is this 1 balloon with 4 payloads, or 4 balloons and 4 payloads?
[10:40] <LazyL_M0LEP> Vortex4 too
[10:40] <M0JCU_> The insulation on Vortex 3 and 4 isn't what it could be
[10:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Vortex 7 Helioss nice and stable
[10:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> 1 balloon 4 payloads
[10:40] <M0JCU_> yes
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[10:42] <LazyL_M0LEP> Vortex4 is quite a wobbly signal. What order are they strung in?
[10:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> Helioss wobbly as well
[10:43] <M0JCU_> From top to bottm - Vortex3, HelioSS, Vortex/Vortex4 (togehter)
[10:43] <LazyL_M0LEP> Ok. Thanks
[10:43] <M0JCU_> The antenna on Vortex4 is tied in a knot until release at 25km
[10:44] <M0JCU_> Vortex predicted landing spot is Cuddesdon
[10:44] <LazyL_M0LEP> Not doing too badly then. ;)
[10:45] <LazyL_M0LEP> Even with its antenna in a knot it's ten times louder than the louder of yesterdays payloads...
[10:45] <M0JCU_> HelioSS prediction is somewhere near Eynsham
[10:46] <Jess--> it should be 10 times louder, it should be running 10 times the power of titan-one yesterday
[10:46] <GMT> how much power was Titan1 then?
[10:46] <Jess--> 1mW
[10:46] <Jess--> by mistake
[10:46] <GMT> no wonder we couldn't hear it!
[10:46] <LazyL_M0LEP> Ah. Oops. ;)
[10:47] <LazyL_M0LEP> Oh, I think I did actually get one or two green lines from Titan. ;)
[10:47] <GMT> I got maybe 5 or 6 good decodes from it!
[10:47] <Jess--> I think everyone did well to get it
[10:47] <helioss_chase> @M0JCU: just coming up on holdpoint. chase car app not behaving
[10:47] <GMT> I thought that maybe the antenna had been damaged or snapped off
[10:48] <LazyL_M0LEP> I think my antenna was 24 elements too short for HABE though.
[10:48] <mfa298> I was surprised at just how poor HABE was yesterday - although I was assuming it would have been >5cm long.
[10:48] <GMT> and HABE was using a stubby, despite advice not to
[10:48] <UpuWork> it wasn't working
[10:49] <UpuWork> we've used stubs before and they were fine
[10:49] <UpuWork> I'm 100% something else is at play
[10:49] <UpuWork> insert "sure"
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[10:49] <M0JCU_> helioss_chase, currently directly over Chalgrove (it came back)
[10:49] <mfa298> I though people had used stubs before and they had worked reasonably well
[10:49] <M0JCU_> will keep you informed.
[10:49] <UpuWork> they do
[10:49] <gonzo_> poor qual stubby and lack of GP?
[10:50] <UpuWork> it was the same stub Dave used on the wedding dress launch
[10:50] <GMT> has anyone tried a wire collinear?
[10:50] <fsphil> mixing SMA and SMA-RP?
[10:50] <UpuWork> they don't do an RP SMA
[10:50] <UpuWork> version
[10:50] <M0JCU_> LazyL_M0LEP, did you lose it or change payload?
[10:50] <fsphil> on the payload though
[10:50] <UpuWork> however the connector on the board ?
[10:50] <M0JCU_> Sorry. Back on it
[10:50] <LazyL_M0LEP> Which one?
[10:50] <LazyL_M0LEP> I'm listening to VORTEX4
[10:51] <fsphil> from the sounds of it, the connection to the antenna was very poor so this could explain it
[10:51] <LazyL_M0LEP> 'cos VORTEX3 had three other listeners at one point.
[10:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Helioss very unstable again
[10:51] <UpuWork> hopefully we can get an analysis when cuddykid recovers
[10:51] <cuddykid> if I ever get it :P
[10:51] <UpuWork> check the end launch cuddykid
[10:51] <LazyL_M0LEP> VORTEX4 did just have a particularly wobbly patch though.
[10:51] <cuddykid> yeah, will do
[10:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> What is dial for v4
[10:52] <UpuWork> I've never purchased any RP ones intentionally
[10:52] <fsphil> we need trained HAB recovery monkeys
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[10:52] <M0JCU_> They are all coming home!
[10:52] <Jess--> fsphil trained pigeons maight work
[10:53] <GMT> or trained eagles to pluck payloads from the top of trees and drop them in nearby fields
[10:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> lol
[10:54] <daveake> Add a quadcopter to each payload
[10:54] <fsphil> ooh, or have them grab them in the air and return them
[10:54] <GMT> or maybe RPVs with grabbing-hooks
[10:54] <daveake> Get it to hover if it sees a tree
[10:54] <fsphil> quadcopters and trees don't mix either
[10:54] <daveake> the idea being to miss the tree ...
[10:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> Tie the He cylinder to the balloon and inject more gas!
[10:54] <fsphil> miss the tree? what a novel concept
[10:54] <GMT> the experts on RPVs and quadcopters seem to the the Black Sheep team from Switz, check them out on youtube
[10:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> LazyL_M0LEP do you have a dial freq. for vortex4 ?
[10:57] <LazyL_M0LEP> 434.325
[10:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> tks
[10:57] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - frequency use"
[10:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> Looks like their going around again!
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[11:01] <GMT> what just happened to VORTEX?
[11:01] <GMT> oh, came back again
[11:06] <M0JCU_> Predictions are holding
[11:06] <GMT> its going straight up, almost no change in lat/long, just change in alt
[11:08] <LazyL_M0LEP> Geoff-G8DHE: VORTEX4 is creeping up. Now 434.325.38 on dial.
[11:08] <mfa298> what shift are people using for HELIOSS - Is the default right or is it a bit narrower?
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[11:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> tks massive interference so not able to even see it on thw wf thru the racket
[11:09] <M0JCU_> mfa298, I was using the default
[11:09] <M0JCU_> don't forget to increase the filter bandwidth manually
[11:09] <mfa298> The signal might just be slightly too weak then.
[11:09] <M0JCU_> at least 300 Hz
[11:09] <mfa298> I've done the filter bandwidth
[11:10] <M0JCU_> :)
[11:10] <M0JCU_> always worth asking
[11:10] <M0JCU_> I forget often-enough
[11:10] <mfa298> I think they're still in the shadow of the building for me.
[11:10] <mfa298> I've asked the same before - and made that mistake myself as well.
[11:10] <fsphil> hmm.. getting bad qrm on vortex's frequency
[11:11] <mfa298> would be nice if dl-fldigi could put it in the right area with autoconfig
[11:11] <fsphil> getting partical decodes though
[11:12] <M0JCU_> Really good signal for me for Vortex. Luckily the radio is at home rather where I am directly under the balloon
[11:12] <mfa298> I made the opposite mistake earlier when I tried switching the FCD+ from HELIOSS to VORTEX (and left the bandwidth too wide)
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[11:12] <GMT> is there any way to make FLDIGI always start with the bandwidth at 200 or 300, instead of the standard value of '68'
[11:12] <fsphil> the next version will use the baud rate * 2
[11:12] <M0JCU_> helioss_chase, welcome back.
[11:12] <mfa298> Of the three 50bd payloads VORTEX looked to be the best. I couldn't see the other two on the RTL waterfall
[11:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> Doesn't Click the Save button save it ?
[11:13] <fsphil> woo, green line
[11:13] <M0JCU_> I will update your location after Vortex release when we know how fast HelioSS will be going up
[11:13] <GMT> it does save it, but not permanently
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[11:14] <helioss_chase> thanks - connection is a bit patchy
[11:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> Sure mine does, maybe the Save Config from the Config tab does it ?
[11:14] <mfa298> I did wonder earlier what happens if you enable the auto button for bandwidth and save it like that
[11:14] <M0JCU_> 5km to Vortex relese
[11:15] <M0JCU_> s/relese/release/
[11:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Helioss stays attached to balloon ?
[11:15] <M0JCU_> HelioSS and Vortex3 stay attached
[11:15] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - frequency use"
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[11:20] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - frequency use"
[11:21] <LazyL_M0LEP> Hmmm... VORTEX4 having a go at being very faint...
[11:22] <M0JCU_> Hopefully V4 will be great after release in a few minutes
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[11:23] <PA3WEG> Hi all
[11:23] <GMT> hi
[11:24] <GMT> balloon up, 434.077 if you are able to rx
[11:24] <M0JCU_> Hi PA3WEG. Thanks for listening - great job
[11:25] <LazyL_M0LEP> Hopefully. :)
[11:26] <Laurenceb> how many balloons?!!!!
[11:26] <eroomde> 1
[11:26] <Laurenceb> ah i see
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[11:26] <eroomde> but things detaching at 25 (?) km
[11:27] <M0JCU_> 5 minutes to go
[11:27] <M0JCU_> Yes - 25km
[11:27] <eroomde> cool. fingers crossed.
[11:27] <Ugi> What happens to the detached part? 'chute? Something fancier?
[11:27] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave B "Re: [UKHAS] Repeater inputs. (was I think:- Launch Announcement -
[11:28] <Randomskk> oh wonderful a new thread too
[11:29] Action: LazyL_M0LEP eyerolls and makes a note to sit on his paws.
[11:29] <eroomde> someone should tell himdigests are meant to be read-only
[11:30] <eroomde> but not me
[11:30] <Randomskk> I don't know if he's even seen the rest of the thread
[11:30] <eroomde> probably not
[11:31] <M0JCU_> 25km + 30s is release time
[11:31] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - frequency use"
[11:32] <mfa298> and I was hoping ed's comment might have been an end. (It seemed like a decent summary). I'm guessing we'll be back round the circle again.
[11:32] <GMT> remind me/us which one(s) will drop away
[11:32] <M0JCU_> vortex and vortex 4
[11:32] <LazyL_M0LEP> 24,769 in that last line from Vortex4
[11:32] <LazyL_M0LEP> 24,920
[11:33] <LazyL_M0LEP> Ah, there it goes!
[11:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> Helioss reports 25169
[11:33] <LazyL_M0LEP> 25,099
[11:33] <M0JCU_> :)
[11:33] <LazyL_M0LEP> 25,110
[11:33] <M0JCU_> going down :)
[11:33] <LazyL_M0LEP> It's going up still. Oh no it isn't! ;)
[11:34] <LazyL_M0LEP> Signal jumped by 10dB though. ;)
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[11:36] <M0JCU_> helioss_chase, stay put for the time being
[11:36] <helioss_chase> ok, still holding
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[11:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> V3 a bit wobbly
[11:40] <fsphil> vortex is gone here
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[11:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> v3 has cyclic fading
[11:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> a does H
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[11:43] <PA3WEG> I'm at work at the moment, but will try to keep tracking VORTEX3
[11:44] <PA3WEG> nice to see it climb faster after the cut
[11:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> v3 is fading heavily for me
[11:49] <helioss_chase> looks like a burst
[11:49] <M0JCU_> looks like Helioss burst
[11:52] <helioss_chase> can we have a new destination please?
[11:52] <M0JCU_> Stay put. I will update your map in a tick
[11:53] <M0JCU_> helioss_chase, map updated
[11:53] <M0JCU_> better predictions in a minute
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[12:00] <helioss_chase> still holding, not seeing an update destination yet
[12:02] <GMT> V3/Helioss prediction (according to Spacenear) showing as down near Abingdon
[12:02] <Laurenceb> or in Abingdon....
[12:02] <M0JCU_> don't believe it
[12:03] <GMT> Vortex prediction now showing as approx 1.5 kms from launch site!
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[12:03] <M0JCU_> Vortex is now just about above my predicted landing site
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[12:04] <M0JCU_> landing time 13:20 for Vortex
[12:05] <GMT> impressive, when you think about where it's travelled and how high, and how close to launch point
[12:06] <M0JCU_> Heliss landing time predicted as 13:50
[12:06] <GMT> I started to hear the signal at about 700m, so I'd hope to get it that low on the way down
[12:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> Wow that was a sudden drify on V3
[12:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> *drift
[12:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> but its now come up in sig strength
[12:12] <Laurenceb> wow the wind is being weird
[12:13] <GMT> with VORTEX I am still getting an end-stop signal even using an attenuator
[12:13] <UpuWork> updating GFS's for prediction
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[12:14] <M0JCU_> thanks UpuWork
[12:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> VORTEX now faded out on me
[12:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> below my hrizon
[12:16] <fsphil> silly earth, always getting in the way
[12:16] <fsphil> we should get rid of it
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[12:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Water world here we come
[12:17] <Willdude123> Yo. I'm at the ferry port in france
[12:17] <fsphil> salut
[12:17] <Willdude123> I had suxh
[12:17] <Willdude123> A good time
[12:19] <fsphil> nice
[12:19] <fsphil> not the place
[12:19] <Willdude123> I asked for tea at breakfast and my exchange gave it to me in a bowl.
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[12:19] <Willdude123> Oui. Any launches a la weekend?
[12:20] <UpuWork> "now" WillDuckworth
[12:20] <GMT> 2 launches
[12:20] <UpuWork> doh
[12:20] <LazyL_M0LEP> Expecting to lose Vortex4 soon...
[12:20] <UpuWork> Willdude123
[12:20] <LazyL_M0LEP> That's probably just about it...
[12:21] <M0JCU_> LazyL_M0LEP, did the signal improve after release?
[12:21] <LazyL_M0LEP> 674 perhaps
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[12:21] <M0JCU_> recovery crew have Vortex in sight
[12:21] <LazyL_M0LEP> M0JCU_: By about 10dB ;)
[12:21] <Laurenceb> heh right under it
[12:22] <LazyL_M0LEP> VORTEX4 faded from waterfalll now
[12:22] <fsphil> catch it!
[12:22] <GMT> partial decode on VORTEX at 580m
[12:22] <GMT> VORTEX now gone
[12:22] <G6WTR> $HELIOSW,246,12>22:05,051.73628,-001.27100,06305,073, 5.0,-16.3,-16.5(-15.8, 1.1, 2.0,460.Xb"#B? on a 145 Mhz folded dipole in Eastleigh
[12:22] <fsphil> oh still 6km up
[12:23] <LazyL_M0LEP> Back on VORTEX3 here now.
[12:23] <Willdude123> Any near me?
[12:23] <Willdude123> Any on the english channel? :-)
[12:23] <Willdude123> Sorry fsphil
[12:24] <Willdude123> That was too offtopic
[12:24] <fsphil> shush bot
[12:25] <fsphil> helioss must be swinging about a lot
[12:25] <Willdude123> (fsphil) not the place
[12:25] <PA3WEG> vortex3 gone now for me
[12:25] <PA3WEG> for some time already
[12:25] <PA3WEG> but foorprint plots indicate that
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[12:28] <UpuWork> ping M0JCU
[12:28] <UpuWork> what GPS is in Heliios ?
[12:29] <M0JCU_> FSA03?
[12:29] <fsphil> I've been wondering if it's swinging about
[12:29] <M0JCU_> It's a uBlox module
[12:29] <Laurenceb> wtf
[12:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> Helioss fading on me now V3 still going
[12:29] <UpuWork> so still a ublox
[12:29] <M0JCU_> with built-in antenna
[12:29] <Laurenceb> how did the car get there
[12:29] <M0JCU_> I only fly uBlox :)
[12:29] <M0JCU_> Laurenceb, beats me !
[12:29] <helioss_chase> holding at Wickes
[12:29] <UpuWork> much "noiser" than the MAX6
[12:29] <fsphil> the predictions are way off
[12:30] <M0JCU_> Chase boat
[12:30] <UpuWork> damn close to pylons
[12:30] <Laurenceb> must be on foot
[12:30] <Laurenceb> run faster :P
[12:30] <UpuWork> oh its not down
[12:31] <fsphil> not yet
[12:31] <UpuWork> yes fair to say prediction isn't working
[12:31] <M0JCU_> It's about 180deg out at the moment
[12:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> All gone for me
[12:33] <helioss_chase> how stable is the landing prediction?
[12:33] <UpuWork> normally ok but totally out today
[12:33] <UpuWork> ignore it
[12:33] <UpuWork> no idea where this is going
[12:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oxford town center ?
[12:34] <UpuWork> don't think so
[12:34] <UpuWork> hmm well possibly
[12:34] <GMT> earlier, Helioss prediction was Abingdon high street
[12:34] <UpuWork> going on the other one
[12:34] <helioss_chase> @M0JCU - head for Binsey Lane?
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[12:35] <UpuWork> not significantly moving
[12:35] <UpuWork> could do with clearing that train track
[12:36] <M0JCU_> helioss_chase, I would go for Halfords car park at the moment
[12:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its still at 2Km
[12:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> Town center
[12:36] <Laurenceb> hopefully not the Thames
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[12:36] <UpuWork> I know but its not moving quick
[12:36] <Laurenceb> adventure playground atm :P
[12:36] <Ugi> Hope Helioss recovery can punt!
[12:37] <LazyL_M0LEP> Fading more than Vortex4
[12:38] <LazyL_M0LEP> A bit further away, I guess.
[12:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> oh coming back towards the rails again
[12:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> now the Thames ???
[12:39] <GMT> which side of the Thames will it land on?
[12:39] <mfa298> not so many trees though.
[12:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> over the Thames
[12:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Thames St.
[12:40] <UpuWork> Oxford ice Rink
[12:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Maybe Oxford Road
[12:41] <Laurenceb> hopefully that area of park
[12:41] <UpuWork> cut down now :)
[12:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its going skating
[12:41] <UpuWork> oxford ice rink helioss_chase
[12:41] <mfa298> anyone looked up the ground height there ?
[12:41] <LazyL_M0LEP> Lost Vortex3 completely now.
[12:41] <Ugi> Too warm down here compared to up there!
[12:42] <helioss_chase> ty, enroute
[12:42] <UpuWork> so slow...
[12:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> 58m
[12:42] <mfa298> prediction looks a bit more sensible now
[12:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> could still make it back over the railway
[12:42] <mfa298> althoguh that's puting it near the tracks and water
[12:43] <UpuWork> scratch that helioss_chase
[12:43] <helioss_chase> we have visual
[12:43] <UpuWork> Gibbs Cresent off Mill Street
[12:43] <GMT> down
[12:43] <UpuWork> well if you need a boat...
[12:44] <UpuWork> in the water ?
[12:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> no its still floating
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[12:44] <mfa298> still moving
[12:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> ground is 58-59m
[12:44] <Ugi> Cool - can't believe that was tracked down to <500m!
[12:44] <UpuWork> damn land already
[12:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> might not get past the Canal
[12:44] <Laurenceb> eeek
[12:44] <G6WTR> in the Thames?
[12:44] <Laurenceb> possibly
[12:45] <G6WTR> Wet Transmitting Radio then !!!
[12:45] <mfa298> wet landing looks like a reasonable bet
[12:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> must be down now ....
[12:45] <x-f> still updating!
[12:45] <Ugi> Now reading 96m on the map!
[12:45] <mfa298> Ugi: there have been a few flights tracked from before launch to after landing and not just by the launch team
[12:46] <UpuWork> Still sticking with Mill Street/Gibbs Crescent helioss_chase
[12:47] <Ugi> Cool! 96m is pretty impressive, especially in a city, next to an electric train line!
[12:47] <G6WTR> Be interesting to know where they have got too, esp after yesterdays frustrating tracking ...
[12:47] <G6WTR> Dont think that railoway is electic yet!
[12:47] <UpuWork> yesterday wasn't a good day
[12:48] <PA3WEG> if you hear a loud bang, it was electric after all ...;)
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[12:48] <G6WTR> Dead right yestreday had some real funny radio conditions duid wonder if an Alford slot =maight nake an interesting aerial but after today ill stay with the colinear
[12:49] <Ugi> electric railway makes for a difficult cutdown, I suspect!
[12:49] <G6WTR> Let me assure you its diersal or steam not overhead there not fitted yet and the thirds rail does not go m north of Reading some 30 K to the Soiuth East
[12:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> Very finicky are Alford slots, played with them on the videorepeaters
[12:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> very difficult replicate each time
[12:49] <UpuWork> its on the land
[12:50] <Laurenceb> that was close
[12:50] Nick change: LazyL_M0LEP -> LazyLeopard
[12:50] <UpuWork> lucky lucky lucky people
[12:50] <G6WTR> I did wonder heard the Alforsd Slots could be alkward what you think worth a go or waste of time?
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[12:50] <daveake> oh wow
[12:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> waste of time unless you like to play a lot, the actual angle of radiation varies dramaticlly
[12:50] <Willdude123> Is there a mobile friendly map?
[12:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Anyway must go for lunch bbl
[12:51] <M0JCU_> OK. It's down and it appears from the signal that the last uploaded position is correct
[12:51] <Ugi> Man! did it really hit that tiny bit of grass? That's crazy luck!
[12:51] <M0JCU_> I believe it's still transmitting so I think it missed the river
[12:51] <HixWork> http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/ willdu
[12:51] <UpuWork> I suspect thats on land M0JCU just
[12:51] <daveake> After a landing like that, I'd be doing the lottery
[12:51] <Alchamist> What about Vortex3?
[12:51] <HixWork> http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker Willdude123
[12:52] <M0JCU_> I think we've used up our luck
[12:52] <LazyLeopard> Not in trees, and not in water. Win!
[12:52] <G6WTR> OK Geofff thank you Ill stay away and carry on twith the Colinear, today using a 145 Folded dipole at just 15ft ion an Industrialk estate surprisaed to hear anything
[12:52] <M0JCU_> Chase crew is trying to find somwhere to park in Oxford
[12:52] <M0JCU_> don't hold your breath
[12:52] <daveake> It mssed the river (both sides), boats, trees, roads, factories
[12:52] <fsphil> lol
[12:52] <UpuWork> train track
[12:52] <PA3WEG> that stretch of land seems really really nice to lay down
[12:52] <daveake> Assuming it didn't land on a duck it did well
[12:52] <PA3WEG> quack!
[12:52] <UpuWork> right lunch time excitement over
[12:54] <mfa298> so many places you wouldn't want to land within 100m of that!
[12:54] <Willdude123> Please tell me there is a balloon I can see on the caen to portsmouth ferry. :-)
[12:55] <G6WTR> hopefully some one near a boat heard it land back to work now have fun!
[12:56] <gonzo_> out for a duck?
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[12:56] <fsphil> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=f74fad5f83b7a659ff6aa2977dbbe7503e0ff1fc
[12:57] <fsphil> not gonna launch that, but still, would be cool
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> Get it to go another 20 miles in a straight line, and I'll pick it out of my garden.
[12:58] <M0JCU_> Vortex recovered
[12:58] <G6WTR> not surprised think youd lose it!
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> M0JCU_: :)
[12:58] <fsphil> if only I had that parafoil working SpeedEvil :)
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[13:01] <M0JCU_> HelioSS found. Recovery crew going to collect it
[13:02] <M0JCU_> found by a Mr D. Duck
[13:02] <Alchamist> M0JCU_: Not floating down the Thames then? ;)
[13:02] <x-f> is it on the island?
[13:02] <daveake> Last flight a duck and ducklings walked in front of the car ...
[13:02] <M0JCU_> Not sure. Awaiting confirmation from recovery crew
[13:02] <daveake> .... ducklings were short enough to go under ...
[13:03] <daveake> ... sadly they now have no mum.
[13:03] <fsphil> but taste delicious
[13:03] <daveake> lol
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[13:05] <gonzo_> remember hitting a pheasant once, the driver got out, picked it up and shook it, then threw it away
[13:05] <gonzo_> said it rattled, so didn't want it
[13:07] <G6WTR> waste nt not want not stuff it up your jumper
[13:11] <gonzo_> he said if the rattle they are broken. (And he was a butcher, so recon he knows!)
[13:14] <G6WTR> all I know there was a dead cat by side of road this morning and no way was I going to shake that!
[13:14] <eroomde> Helios has landed like on my house
[13:14] <eroomde> about 50m away
[13:14] <G6WTR> lucky you
[13:14] <eroomde> i'm at work
[13:15] <eroomde> so can't steal it
[13:15] <eroomde> actually it's on that little island that is going to be annoying to get to
[13:16] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Thers a bridge and the lock to get across to it
[13:17] <G6WTR> soits secure thats good unless a boaty nicks it!
[13:17] <Alchamist> Just ask that boat that's heading towards it on the west side of the island if they can help recover it .... these are realtime satellite images, aren't they? ;)
[13:18] <eroomde> that is fairly central oxford...
[13:18] <eroomde> the lock bridge is usually guarded by the grumpy lock keeper
[13:18] <eroomde> i smile at him every morning i go past on a run
[13:18] <eroomde> never smiles back
[13:19] <number10> he'll be pleased with a balloon landing there
[13:19] <eroomde> 'do you have a license to be on the river!?'
[13:19] <eroomde> is standard question
[13:19] <Jess--> 10 points for a direct hit?
[13:19] <eroomde> it would end up going down the thames if it hit him, i think
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[13:25] <griffonbot> Received email: Mike Willis "RE: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - frequency use"
[13:28] <Jess--> helioss is about 300m east of where I used to fly from with a hot air balloon (the field next to the ice rink)
[13:29] <Jess--> west I mean (it's been a long morning)
[13:30] <Laurenceb> sounds like a tricky takeoff
[13:30] <Laurenceb> lots of obsticles
[13:31] <Jess--> not too bad, nothing too tall apart from the ice rink itself
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[13:35] <iain_G4SGX> Hmm. Launches when I'm at work, how inconsiderate... Hope they went well.
[13:35] <Geoff-G8DHE_> They did
[13:37] <LazyLeopard> Aye, 'twas a fun few hours of tracking. Thanks, Vortex crew.
[13:38] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - frequency use"
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[13:39] <iain_G4SGX> Will have to activate my VNC server next time, play from work..
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[13:42] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - frequency use"
[13:43] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - HABE 8 (Worcester) - June 8th/9th"
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[13:47] <PA3WEG> no helioss recovery yet?
[13:49] <eroomde> i would like to know too
[13:49] <eroomde> it's a hariy area to get to!
[13:51] <M0JCU_> HelioSS is on its way back
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[13:51] <M0JCU_> found by a very nice man
[13:51] <PA3WEG> the last packets are some time ago, so hopefully it was not nicked in the mean time. It might mean the heloiss recovery team does not have a tracker to take with on foot
[13:51] <M0JCU_> obviously not Ed's bridge troll
[13:51] <PA3WEG> ah, ok
[13:51] <eroomde> no!
[13:51] <PA3WEG> good news then
[13:51] <PA3WEG> congrats
[13:52] <Ugi> That's both payloads recovered then? Good stuff.
[13:54] <HixWork> Has HelioSS parked itself in an island on the Thames?
[13:54] <eroomde> it's recovered now
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[13:54] <HixWork> ok, Is that where it actually landed though
[13:54] <HixWork> or last update
[13:55] <M0JCU_> I think it landed there
[13:56] <eroomde> i suspect recovery options would be limited if it didn;t land there
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[13:56] <Phil_M0DNY> Should I put a quick 2 cents on the mailing list about my attempts with 868MHz RTTY or just let it drop?
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[13:57] <eroomde> probably best to let that one drop
[13:57] <eroomde> and save it for a technical chat
[13:57] <eroomde> rather than righteous hams chat
[13:57] <Phil_M0DNY> Yep! Will do that then.
[13:57] <HixWork> that thread has been going a while. one of the longest I've seen
[13:57] <mfa298> that does seem like a thread to let die (if that's possible)
[13:57] <eroomde> i'm sure we'll have another thread about insurance soon
[13:58] <HixWork> please no
[13:58] <eroomde> someone who has never launched before declaring that we NEED it
[13:58] <mfa298> although after it being said several times the point about there only being two frequencies for the NTX2 seems to have finally got through
[13:58] <HixWork> who happens to know of a broker that could do it
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[13:58] <HixWork> NTX2 only has 2 frequencies?
[13:58] Action: HixWork ducks
[13:58] <eroomde> everyone has a friend who works in insuance, it turns out
[13:59] <Phil_M0DNY> *and who, when asked, wouldn't want to touch it with a barge pole.
[13:59] <HixWork> speaking of the NTX2, I was trying to source crystals
[13:59] <HixWork> that fit them and happened to be in the right MHz range - drew a blank. Any ideas?
[14:00] <eroomde> what xtals are you looking for?
[14:00] <HixWork> I know they are 1/5 Tx MHz rate
[14:00] <HixWork> for the NTX2
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[14:00] <eroomde> i think Upu went through this but wouldn't get ones with the right voltage coefficient
[14:00] <eroomde> or something
[14:00] <eroomde> i don;t remember reall
[14:00] <eroomde> y
[14:01] <HixWork> I just couldn't find anything in the right frequency. At all
[14:01] <number10> i think he gave an xtal to mickmondo for his last flight
[14:01] <jonsowman> you can have them custom cut
[14:01] <HixWork> wasn;t that a hacked NTX2?
[14:02] <number10> is expensive I guess jonsowman ?
[14:02] <HixWork> doesn't sound particularly cheap
[14:02] <jonsowman> number10: Upu looked into it for the NTX2. I had 10 5x3mm ones cut for joey for around £45
[14:02] <jonsowman> from Euroquartz
[14:02] <HixWork> So, apart from the temp issues, what are downsides of RFM22?
[14:02] <PA3WEG> in the uk I can recommend Euroquartz
[14:03] <HixWork> wow - lot less expensive than i thought it would be
[14:03] <jonsowman> for about £4.50 per xtal I didn't think that was too bad
[14:03] <jonsowman> I needed exactly 13.58MHz
[14:03] <number10> no thats pretty good
[14:03] <PA3WEG> or try golledge or PDI
[14:03] <Jess--> I have heard good things about http://www.quartslab.com/ in the UK, not sure on pricing
[14:04] <jonsowman> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62498867/Screenshot%20from%202013-06-10%2015%3A04%3A27.png
[14:04] <jonsowman> here you go
[14:04] <eroomde> HixWork: the freq fidelity
[14:05] <PA3WEG> the stability could be a lot better if you pay slightly more
[14:05] <PA3WEG> but that depends on how anal you want to be about that...
[14:06] <jonsowman> these ones have been absolutely fine
[14:06] <jonsowman> have flown several
[14:06] <jonsowman> of course you can indeed do better by paying more, but I wouldn't necessarily suggest it
[14:06] <HixWork> as in drift eroomde ?
[14:06] <eroomde> HixWork: no
[14:06] <eroomde> as in fidelity
[14:07] <eroomde> so, with the ntx2 you can get any frequency you want between about carrier and carrier + 20kHz
[14:07] <eroomde> as in maps onto input voltage, continuously
[14:07] <griffonbot> Received email: Turan Orenbas "[UKHAS] Clarification of two guides"
[14:07] <eroomde> whereas with the rfm22 you have to digitally adjust the freq, and the step size for that is quite large
[14:07] <Darkside> lol
[14:07] <HixWork> ok
[14:07] <eroomde> oh jesus christ
[14:08] <eroomde> not this guy again
[14:08] <number10> i suppose getting some cut for say 86.925 or 86.92 may extend the current email thread a bit
[14:08] <eroomde> i suspect he's not worth the pain that trying to help him could inflict on us
[14:08] <HixWork> don't do it :)
[14:08] <jonsowman> number10: have a chat to Upu first, he investigated it, but I don't remember the outcome
[14:08] <HixWork> the thread i meant
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[14:08] <number10> ok will do
[14:09] <number10> I wont HixWork
[14:09] <HixWork> :)
[14:09] <HixWork> it'd be lik edeja vu all over again
[14:09] <jonsowman> oh is it still going?
[14:09] <jonsowman> I muted it this morning
[14:10] <number10> it has been going a bit
[14:10] <mfa298> that thread has hopefully come to a conclusion...
[14:10] <HixWork> how's your new dress jonsowman ;p
[14:11] <jonsowman> i'm sorry?
[14:11] <HixWork> ebay
[14:11] <griffonbot> Received email: John D. Tanner "Re: [UKHAS] Clarification of two guides"
[14:11] <jonsowman> HixWork: oh, lol
[14:12] <jonsowman> :|
[14:12] <HixWork> heh
[14:12] <HixWork> a likley excuse ;p
[14:12] <UpuWork> hi
[14:12] <UpuWork> I'm blinking sup ?
[14:13] <jonsowman> HixWork: haha
[14:13] <UpuWork> yes you can recrystal the NTX2
[14:13] <UpuWork> but it ain't cheap
[14:13] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Clarification of two guides"
[14:13] <HixWork> UpuWork, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62498867/Screenshot%20from%202013-06-10%2015%3A04%3A27.png
[14:14] <UpuWork> yes the ones for the NTX2 aren't as cheap
[14:14] <HixWork> ah oki
[14:14] <UpuWork> in fact Euroquartz couldn't do them
[14:14] <HixWork> :/
[14:15] <HixWork> are LMT2's going to be in the 30's
[14:15] <UpuWork> and they are an odd harmonic or something
[14:15] <UpuWork> about that yes
[14:15] <HixWork> hmm
[14:15] <UpuWork> not priced them up yet
[14:16] <UpuWork> still cheaper than a recrystalled NTX2 and more stable
[14:18] <G6WTR> I have used Quartslb in the past and found them to be very good an recomend them
[14:18] <UpuWork> yep those are the ones
[14:18] <eroomde> will they do TCXOs?
[14:19] <UpuWork> for the record the crystal cost £30.37 inc VAT
[14:19] <HixWork> jaysus
[14:19] <UpuWork> And Mondo Mick has the only one in existance :)
[14:21] <UpuWork> 86.8400MHz UM-1/ 10/20/-30+75/SR/AT5 (5th overtone)
[14:21] <UpuWork> actually wrong
[14:21] <UpuWork> its a 3rd overtone
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[14:23] <UpuWork> just use the LMT2
[14:23] <UpuWork> its frequency agile and TCXO
[14:24] <griffonbot> Received email: Geoff Mather "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - frequency use"
[14:27] <Jess--> I have been playing with a page to track previous launches by the titan group, and would appreciate any thoughts www.titanballoon.co.uk
[14:27] <Jess--> I certainly need to brush up on my google maps code
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[14:30] <number10> just had a shock... received an email that wasnt UKHAS
[14:34] <eroomde> about that accident you had?
[14:34] <eroomde> you might be entitled to compensation
[14:35] <HixWork> PPI
[14:36] <number10> well it went straight in the bin
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[14:39] <ibanezmatt13_> Good Afternoon :)
[14:41] <ibanezmatt13_> So I now know that the only configuration that works for my payload is running both the NTX2 and the uBlox off their own regulators from the batteries, and have the Pi power only the Pi Cam. This seems to be the only way that the Pi Cam can work without affecting the serial port
[14:42] <ibanezmatt13_> I understand why I couldn't power the uBlox from the Pi with its 50mA+ current draw, but on the 5v line, the NTX2 should have been fine...
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[14:48] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: it could be your pi psu isn't providing quite enough power so when everything is running the 5v line is dropping which could also mean the 3v3 line drops
[14:48] <HixWork> is it that the PIcam is just placing too much load on the vreg and adding further components is just overloading it?
[14:48] <eroomde> maybe the pi is just being irrational
[14:48] <eroomde> AHUAHAUAHAUAHAUAHAUAHAUAHAUHA
[14:49] <ibanezmatt13_> The Pi is connected to the mains :)
[14:49] <mfa298> or the onboard fuses drop to much power when everything it running (although I thought that was improved on later models)
[14:49] <eroomde> that probably won;t help the pi much either ibanezmatt13_
[14:49] <HixWork> badum tish eroomde
[14:49] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: it's connected to a psu that's connected to the mains. That PSU will have a limit on how much power it can supply
[14:50] <ibanezmatt13_> hmm. Would it make much difference to my power consumption if I power NTX2 and GPS from batteries instead of Pi?
[14:50] <ibanezmatt13_> mfa298, I just thought that limit wouldn't have been low
[14:50] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: most psu's like that are around 1000mA (1A)
[14:50] <ibanezmatt13_> Yeah it says 5b - 1A
[14:50] <ibanezmatt13_> 5v*
[14:50] <mfa298> but you'll have losses in the cables etc as well.
[14:52] <ibanezmatt13_> I think a Pi Model B draws about 500mA current or something like that, the uBlox draws over 50mA, not sure about the NTX2 but it can't be much. I guess the Pi Cam will draw a fair bit too. In that case, you're probably right
[14:53] <ibanezmatt13_> But I would have still thought it would have worked if the mains PSU was only powering the Pi, NTX2 and Pi Cam...
[14:53] <mfa298> you might not be hitting the limit on the PSU but as you draw more power from it the losses in the cable might have more impact (hopefully you've covered ohms law in science - V=IR)
[14:53] <ibanezmatt13_> yep
[14:53] <mfa298> I've had issues with the mains PSU just running the Pi and a wifi dongle (although that's an early Pi)
[14:54] <ibanezmatt13_> Oh right, well I was running the Wifi dongle from a powered USB hub
[14:54] <ibanezmatt13_> I'll do a bit of research on the power of each component to try and identify the total current draw
[14:55] <HixWork> can you not just measure it with a DMM
[14:55] <HixWork> reality != theory in my experience
[14:55] <mfa298> with ohms law if the cable had a resistance of 1 ohm (hopefully it's not that high) if you're only drawing 500mA you'll lose 0.5V on the PSU cable. When you're drawing 1A you'll loose 1V (so the Pi will be powered by 4V instead of the 5V it should be)
[14:55] <ibanezmatt13_> I have a multimeter which supposedly does current but it never works
[14:56] <ibanezmatt13_> Oh right
[14:56] <HixWork> do you need to change the socets on the front to measure current?
[14:56] <HixWork> *sockets
[14:56] <ibanezmatt13_> Not sure, I'll have a look
[14:56] <mfa298> the downside of a DMM is you probably won't see the spikes/drops of voltage/current
[14:56] Nick change: benoxley -> benoxley_2
[14:56] <ibanezmatt13_> Yeah, I don't have one of those ocillators either...
[14:57] <ibanezmatt13_> bad spelling today
[14:57] <mfa298> current the DMM also needs to be in series with the circuit rather than in parallel (like when you're measuring voltage)
[14:57] <ibanezmatt13_> yeah I know, I'll try it again
[14:57] <mfa298> If you've connected the DMM in parallel with a PSU to measure current you might have blown the fuse
[14:57] <mfa298> (I've done that by mistake a few times)
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[14:58] <ibanezmatt13_> quite possibly
[14:58] <Jess--> I once connected a multimeter in continuity check mode across the mains (amazingly it survived)
[14:58] <ibanezmatt13_> I may just wait until I get the Model A Pi, I'm getting that this week at some point. Then I can just power it from the batteries and try it out properly
[14:58] <eroomde> you can use your second multimeter to measure the resistence across the terminals of the suspect multimeter
[14:59] <ibanezmatt13_> I only have one :\
[14:59] <eroomde> multimeters are really useful in pairs
[14:59] <eroomde> one for current, one for voltage say
[14:59] <ibanezmatt13_> I really could get another I suppose
[15:00] <eroomde> worthing picking up a second
[15:00] <eroomde> worth*
[15:00] <Ugi> I must try that - dual DMMs
[15:00] <eroomde> it's good
[15:00] <HixWork> DDMM
[15:00] <eroomde> i am going to get a second one of my own
[15:00] <Ugi> Have blown more fuses by forgetting to put leads back into Voltage holes!
[15:00] <eroomde> at the mo i just use mine and another one that belongs to work
[15:01] <eroomde> pricier ones will shout at you if the plugs are in current sockets but you're set to voltage
[15:01] <mfa298> you'll also find different types can be useful. I've got an old one (with basic functions) where the dmm is part of one of the probes which make it nice and small and useful for quick tests.
[15:01] <Ugi> They're not hugely expensive after all, compared with ditching a GoPro in the North Sea
[15:01] <eroomde> yes i am going to get a dissimilar second one
[15:01] <eroomde> i have a fluke 87 now
[15:01] <eroomde> was going to get the agilent that targets it as a competitor
[15:01] <ibanezmatt13_> talking of Go Pros, was HABE recovered?
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[15:02] <HixWork> i believe it's still in the trees ibanezmatt13_
[15:02] <ibanezmatt13_> really?
[15:02] <HixWork> di dyou see the pic?
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[15:02] <ibanezmatt13_> no
[15:02] <Ugi> was there a pic to se?
[15:02] <Ugi> see
[15:02] <HixWork> sec
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[15:03] <ibanezmatt13_> Good Afternoon GW8RAK :)
[15:04] <mfa298> This was the spot the payload pic: http://i.imgur.com/1JB4WMn.jpg
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[15:04] <mfa298> and the answer: http://i.imgur.com/PddrdKy.jpg
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[15:05] <ibanezmatt13_> I can't even see it :p
[15:05] <GW8RAK> Afternoon ibanezmatt13.
[15:05] <Laurenceb> http://www.semtech.com/wireless-rf/rf-transceivers/sx1276/
[15:05] <mfa298> you're best off looking at the answer picture. It's in the middle of the red circle
[15:05] <ibanezmatt13_> oh wow, that's not good...
[15:06] <GW8RAK> With regards your power supply, and Pi PSU's in general, a lot of the 5V 1A wallwarts seem to be very optimistically rated.
[15:06] <HixWork> old PC PSU, great for 5V power
[15:06] <HixWork> and 12V too
[15:06] <Ugi> How in the name of Hell did they see it up there? Buzzer or something?
[15:06] <HixWork> you can pretty much get them for free these days too
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[15:07] <HixWork> it does stick lut a bit
[15:07] <mfa298> apart from an old PC PSU I tried once where you had to pull 1A from the 5V line for it to work.
[15:07] <HixWork> *out
[15:07] <eroomde> a good adjustable lab power supply is an excellent purchase though
[15:07] <eroomde> one of the most useful bits of quipment
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[15:07] <HixWork> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?CMP=comingsoon_email&sku=2251946
[15:07] <HixWork> though never in stock :/
[15:08] <ibanezmatt13_> I assume the Energizer lithium ultimate AAs can handle a decent current draw of say 1Aa
[15:08] <HixWork> easily
[15:08] <UpuWork> won't last long though
[15:08] <Laurenceb> hmm im not sure this is feasible
[15:08] <Laurenceb> http://www.semtech.com/wireless-rf/rf-transceivers/sx1276/ <- link budget is insane
[15:08] <HixWork> just use NiMh for testing
[15:09] <ibanezmatt13_> NiMh?
[15:09] <ibanezmatt13_> Are they just alkaline?
[15:09] <HixWork> Nickle Metal Hydride rechargables
[15:09] <mfa298> one of the standard recargable batteries
[15:09] <HixWork> Nickel
[15:10] <ibanezmatt13_> Of course. I could get some of those
[15:10] <mfa298> probably what you have already if you've got any AA rechargeables
[15:10] <ibanezmatt13_> Not atm, but I can get some
[15:11] <HixWork> these http://goo.gl/qxYBo
[15:11] <HixWork> are good
[15:11] <mfa298> I don't think they're particularly good for a flight but would do for testing. Although watch their capcity - you might not get that long from them for testing
[15:12] <HixWork> them duracells are 2400mAh so last ages
[15:12] <HixWork> and they take rapid charges well too
[15:12] <mfa298> nice deal
[15:12] <Ugi> Those ones liked are about the same capacity as Lithiums
[15:12] <ibanezmatt13_> ah right, I'll just get those then
[15:12] <Ugi> Just much heavier
[15:12] <ibanezmatt13_> It'll do for testing though
[15:12] <HixWork> I bought 2x 8 as it was cheaper than 16 strangely
[15:12] <mfa298> and may not be so good in the cold.
[15:13] <ibanezmatt13_> I guess I need a battery charger too
[15:13] <HixWork> I've used them in -10 in a camera and flash, they weren't as bad as you'd think
[15:13] <PA3WEG> You can't beat sanyo's for testing
[15:13] <Ugi> I don't have the experience to comment on that but you're most likely right.
[15:13] <Ugi> I do know alkalines are hopeless in even gentle cold
[15:14] <ibanezmatt13_> For testing it'll be room temp :)
[15:14] <HixWork> I've got a 15 min duracell charger http://goo.gl/21EnC
[15:14] <HixWork> great for when you're using multiple flashes and caning cells at a rate of knots
[15:15] <eroomde> i would talk to mr ebay about a lab power supply
[15:15] <ibanezmatt13_> What is the voltage of those batteries you linked me to? 1.5?
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[15:16] <ibanezmatt13_> It doesn't say
[15:16] <Ugi> 1.2
[15:16] <Ugi> NiMH and NiCd both 1.2v as standard
[15:16] <ibanezmatt13_> oh right, so I'd need quite a few in that case
[15:17] <ibanezmatt13_> Best get a pack of 8
[15:17] <HixWork> think 1.2 is nominal they are higher on a full charge iirc
[15:17] <Ugi> HixWork is quite right - up to nearly 1.4 on a full charge iirc
[15:17] <mfa298> most rechargeables are 1.2 and will stay there until almost flat. Alkalines will start off higher (at least 1.5v) but that will drop as the charge goes down
[15:18] <Ugi> But yes, still much shallower than alkaline
[15:18] <ibanezmatt13_> I suppose the rechargables are better then.
[15:18] <HixWork> Some useful Ni-mh info here http://www.powerstream.com/NiMH.htm
[15:18] <Ugi> much cheaper over medium or long term
[15:19] <HixWork> you only buy them once ibanezmatt13_ plus you can use them for other stuff
[15:19] <HixWork> emergency phone power for one :)
[15:19] <iain_G4SGX> Maybe a dogdhy breadboard connection is causing a voltage drop? Just thought I'd throw it in another option! :)
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[15:19] <ibanezmatt13_> I think I'm pretty much sorted. I'll get some of those, I now have two regulator boards - All I need now is the Pi Model A and the skill required to put things onto stripboard (this is where I fail miserably...)
[15:20] <ibanezmatt13_> iain_G4SGX, very possible. I really need to get it onto stripboard but I really think it's gonna go worng
[15:20] <ibanezmatt13_> wrong
[15:21] <ibanezmatt13_> I have plenty of stripboard, I have a soldering iron and some solder, and I've done a lot of soldering before. It's just knowing how to put everything onto it which is my issue
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[15:21] <Ugi> Design a small PCB then. There's nearly free if you keep them small.
[15:21] <Ugi> I have 10 5x5 cm on their way from China for £10 delivered.
[15:21] <UpuWork> ping Ugi - pm
[15:21] <ibanezmatt13_> pcb? Like a circuit board
[15:22] <mfa298> putting the stuff onto stripboard shouldn't be any harder than breadboard. They're both a similar design.
[15:22] <ibanezmatt13_> I'm not sure if my breadboard setup is excellent you see
[15:23] <ibanezmatt13_> Now that I'm powering the NTX2 and Ublox from the batteries, that will change what I'm doing completely
[15:24] <mfa298> assuming your regulator is up to it you should only need one 5v reg which can power the pi and the ntx2
[15:25] <ibanezmatt13_> how about the ublox?
[15:25] <Ugi> Yep. Exactly. like a circuit board.
[15:25] <Ugi> Makes the soldering so much easier
[15:25] <mfa298> you probably want the 2nd reg for the ublox (as it seems like the 3v3 line on the pi isn't powerful enough)
[15:26] <HixWork> Ugi 10x5x5 for £10 where from? Seeed or #hackvana
[15:26] <HixWork> seems very cheap
[15:26] <eroomde> itead i guess
[15:26] <UpuWork> itead probably hackvana is about £14 for that
[15:26] <UpuWork> but I'd use Mitch as you can speak to him
[15:26] <ibanezmatt13_> So would I regulate the batteries 9v down to 5v, then have that 5v powering Pi and NTX2, and have another part of that 5v signal regulated down further to 3.3v for GPS?
[15:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> Couple of Object Movies of the flight this morning http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/VORTEX-6_20130610/index.php?ind=1
[15:27] <UpuWork> £14 for 10 PCB's :)
[15:27] <mfa298> but you should end up with something like you had before when the NTX2 was on the pi. Just the Pi will be powered via a different place (not through the micro USB)
[15:27] <eroomde> not sure speaking is that important for simple stuff
[15:27] <eroomde> vs deterministic lead times
[15:27] <UpuWork> That cost me £45 for 2 from Olimex
[15:27] <HixWork> yup - mitch is very good. avg 9 days to uk with included shipping
[15:27] <UpuWork> even with his some times slow delays he's still quicker than Seeed ever were
[15:28] <PA3WEG> I would power the 3v3 converter from battery as well
[15:28] <ibanezmatt13_> oh so I'm powering the NTX2 from the Pi?
[15:28] <UpuWork> Seeed was 23 days on average over 6 orders
[15:28] <PA3WEG> saves you one extra efficiency step
[15:28] <ibanezmatt13_> PA3WEG, good point
[15:28] <UpuWork> you can also power the NTX2 from the battery directly
[15:28] <UpuWork> internal regulator on that too
[15:29] <ibanezmatt13_> Really, wow that's good to know
[15:29] <mfa298> Yup I'd have both regs straight into the battery.
[15:29] <PA3WEG> so just power the NTX and Pi from the 5V converter, with the pie being powered not through the microUSB but through the headers
[15:29] <PA3WEG> OK, I do not have experience with the NTX, so I take it handles the power conversion quite well
[15:29] <ibanezmatt13_> when you say through the headers, do you mean the two points you can solder on to? i.e TP1 and TP2
[15:29] <PA3WEG> is that a linear or switched mode in there?
[15:30] <ibanezmatt13_> UpuWork, so I can feed the NTX2 9v and it'll still be as good as having a regulated 5v?
[15:30] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: I think you can either use TP1 and TP2 or the pins on the header (probably where you used to power the NTX2 from originally)
[15:31] <UpuWork> yep
[15:31] <ibanezmatt13_> I've been wondering how I'm gonna connect everything to the Pi's GPIO pins
[15:31] <UpuWork> anything from 2.9V to 15V in
[15:31] <ibanezmatt13_> Surely I can't solder directly onto them
[15:31] <ibanezmatt13_> Upu, That's good
[15:31] <UpuWork> to VCC only
[15:31] <UpuWork> the data needs to 3V
[15:31] <ibanezmatt13_> yeah, that's ok
[15:32] <mfa298> I'm guessing you might need to do something different for the EN pin on the NTX2 if you go direct to battery for VCC
[15:32] <ibanezmatt13_> hmm, UpuWork
[15:33] <Ugi> HixWork - sorry distracted by work.
[15:33] <UpuWork> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/87779.pdf
[15:34] <Ugi> ITead studio
[15:34] <UpuWork> thats whats in the NTX2
[15:34] <UpuWork> 2.8V version
[15:34] <PA3WEG> great...piece of adobe reader junk... I was checking the Pi Schematics for the TP1 and 2 locations on their schematic
[15:35] <PA3WEG> yup,. TP1 is perfectly fine for +5V
[15:35] <PA3WEG> TP2 is GND then
[15:35] <Ugi> ITead have done me well in the past so no reason to suspect won't be fine again.
[15:35] <ibanezmatt13_> UpuWork, does the EN pin require a certain voltage unlike VCC on the NTX2?
[15:35] <UpuWork> > 1.6V is on
[15:35] <HixWork> Ugi fair enough, worth giving #hackvana a try sometime though, he's very good
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[15:36] <UpuWork> and you can tie it to Vin
[15:36] <Ugi> I may well do that.
[15:36] <UpuWork> The LP2985 is shut off by driving the ON/OFF input low, and
[15:36] <UpuWork> turned on by pulling it high. If this feature is not to be used,
[15:36] <UpuWork> the ON/OFF input should be tied to VIN to keep the regulator
[15:36] <UpuWork> output on at all times.
[15:36] <Ugi> Have also use SITOPWAY which always ship by courier so get in 10 days.
[15:36] <ibanezmatt13_> So if I tie EN to the incoming 9v for VCC, all will be good?
[15:36] <Ugi> 10 10x10s for less than £40 typically.
[15:36] <UpuWork> yep ibanezmatt13_
[15:36] <Ugi> with delivery inc.
[15:37] <ibanezmatt13_> ok, that's good
[15:37] <ibanezmatt13_> well, off for a curry now in this glorious weather. Thanks for the help, I'll discuss all this with my Dad later. See you
[15:38] <UpuWork> laters
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[15:39] <eroomde> i want a curry
[15:39] <UpuWork> I don't
[15:40] <UpuWork> give me a few more days...
[15:40] <Ugi> then give yours to eroomde!
[15:40] <fsphil> curry would be nice
[15:40] <fsphil> it's a bit cooler here today
[15:40] <fsphil> not too hot, not too cold
[15:40] <HixWork> Ugi for 10x10s then definitely try hachkvana
[15:41] <UpuWork> anything heard from Helios ?
[15:41] <HixWork> think recovered UpuWork
[15:41] <HixWork> from an island in the Thames
[15:41] <UpuWork> oh they got it ?
[15:41] <UpuWork> cool
[15:41] <HixWork> apparently, don't quote me
[15:42] <HixWork> 14:51 <M0JCU_> HelioSS is on its way back
[15:42] <HixWork> * Guest10148 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[15:42] <HixWork> <M0JCU_> found by a very nice ma
[15:42] <HixWork> that worked well then
[15:42] <UpuWork> oh super
[15:42] <HixWork> :/
[15:42] <HixWork> pretty lucky landing by looks of things
[15:42] <HixWork> I'm now really paranoid about wet cameras
[15:43] <Ugi> Will check out hackvana then. Don't order 10x10 very often unless panelised but sometimes.
[15:43] <HixWork> http://tinyurl.com/hvpcbfaq
[15:44] <UpuWork> I use him
[15:44] <UpuWork> +1 would use again etc
[15:45] <fsphil> I'm still designing my first board
[15:45] <fsphil> it's on a lunar timescale at this point
[15:46] <HixWork> heh
[15:46] <HixWork> are you going to put a straw on your pcb fsphil
[15:46] <fsphil> I keep getting stuck, then distracted
[15:46] <fsphil> haha
[15:47] <UpuWork> by the birds
[15:47] <Ugi> Have had a quick look and he _does_ look good.
[15:47] <HixWork> I keep reverting to board design when i am supposed to be code learning
[15:48] <UpuWork> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/HAB%20Filter/habamp-adsb.jpg cutting is nice and silk is good
[15:48] <Ugi> I like coding and board design because I can do them on the train which is otherwise dead time. It's soldering time and validation time that I'll struggle for.
[15:48] <HixWork> Ugi - he is not only good, he's helpful and really into hobbyists doing stuff like we are loiter on his channel and you'll see
[15:48] <fsphil> HixWork: I'm the opposite, coding instead of PCB'ing
[15:48] <HixWork> we should swap brains for a month
[15:49] <HixWork> hmm, thats not going to work unless theres removable storage is it
[15:49] <fsphil> fatal flaw
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[15:49] <HixWork> probably just fatal thinking about it
[15:49] <HixWork> my neurosurgery is a lkittle rusty
[15:49] <Ugi> Looks good to me.
[15:49] <fsphil> it's not exactly rocket science though
[15:49] <HixWork> we i say a little its not existent
[15:50] <HixWork> neitehr is plumbing
[15:50] <HixWork> according to eroomde
[15:50] <fsphil> the last rocket I saw was mostly plumbing
[15:50] <Ugi> I like a bit of plumbing but this week's leak is under a screed floor in our hallway!
[15:50] <Ugi> Just what I need.
[15:51] <Ugi> Apparently we used 100 m3 more water last 6m than we should!
[15:52] <HixWork> thats a lot in one go anyway
[15:53] <Ugi> Yes, I just hope it's not under-cut the foundataions!
[15:54] <HixWork> Tikme for some infinite monkey action. laters peoples
[15:54] <Ugi> Catch you later.
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[15:59] <IRC_ukhas> What is the command for resetting my nickname anyone?
[16:00] <fsphil> it's /nick
[16:00] Nick change: IRC_ukhas -> astrobiologist
[16:00] <astrobiologist> Oooh, I like that. It's very "Mr Ben"
[16:01] <astrobiologist> Thanks fsphil
[16:06] <fsphil> so little gets done the 10 minutes before home time
[16:06] <WillDuckworth> Hey UpuWork and fsphil - what aerial do you have on the roof? is it an X-50?
[16:06] <fsphil> I've the Diamond X-50, I believe upu has the watson version, cunningly called the W-50
[16:06] <WillDuckworth> i see what they've done there
[16:06] <eroomde> i have that W-50 too
[16:06] <eroomde> and like it
[16:07] <WillDuckworth> good news - have been given the green light by the other half
[16:07] <fsphil> excellent
[16:07] <WillDuckworth> to get one installed
[16:07] <fsphil> they're quite big up close, but on the roof they're not bad at all
[16:08] <Ugi> Is that a perminant antenna? How big is quite big?
[16:08] <eroomde> yes fairly permentant
[16:08] <WillDuckworth> cool - shall go hunting on t'interwebs
[16:08] <eroomde> and about 1.5m tall
[16:08] <eroomde> a white rod
[16:08] <fsphil> by chance both by 2.4ghz colinear and the X-50 are exactly the same height
[16:08] <fsphil> it looks kinda weird having the two up there
[16:08] <Ugi> I'm aiming for one in September when we get some roof work done.
[16:08] <fsphil> by/me
[16:08] <fsphil> er
[16:08] <fsphil> by/my
[16:09] <fsphil> I had to correct a typo in my typo correction
[16:09] <WillDuckworth> chortle
[16:09] <Ugi> What do you use the 2.4 GHz for - long distance wifi?
[16:09] <fsphil> yep
[16:09] <fsphil> well, not huge distances, just around the town
[16:10] <Ugi> Really? Cool plan!
[16:10] <Ugi> Does the whole town use your wifi then>
[16:10] <Ugi> > ?
[16:10] <x-f> what's your SSID, fsphil?
[16:10] <fsphil> nope, it's got password
[16:10] <fsphil> there's about 10 people on it
[16:10] <Ugi> Wise.
[16:10] <Ugi> 10 still seems a lot.
[16:11] <PA3WEG> I just had some conversations this morning to finally get my X50 up as well
[16:11] <PA3WEG> but I might go for the X5000
[16:11] <fsphil> it's not used as much these days - the towns internet is generally as fast as it
[16:12] <costyn> fsphil: pretty cool, about that wifi ... what kind of radio/router/ap is it connected to?
[16:12] <fsphil> costyn: wrt54gl
[16:13] <fsphil> I did get a buffalo for it, as it has slightly higher output power
[16:13] <fsphil> but it exploded
[16:13] <costyn> so is the longer range mostly due to the antenna rather than a specific AP with a stronger output?
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[16:13] <fsphil> yep - the antenna has a really high gain
[16:14] <costyn> fsphil: what make/model?
[16:14] <PA3WEG> I might get a batch of high gain omnis as well
[16:14] <fsphil> it was from an american company, it's actually really old now
[16:15] <mfa298> and of course you've adjusted the power on the AP to account for the gains/losses in the antenna / coax :p
[16:15] <Ugi> wavelength of 2.4 GHz is pretty short so 1.5m colinear will be many wavelenghts long.
[16:15] <fsphil> costyn: hyperlink tech -- I'm not sure they exist naymore
[16:15] <fsphil> any*
[16:16] <costyn> fsphil: hehe ok, I'll just google around.
[16:16] <Ugi> do you actually get any signal in your house or is it all radiated to the town?
[16:16] <fsphil> very weak signal in the house
[16:16] <fsphil> I have to have another AP
[16:17] <fsphil> one thing I noticed, before I got the house AP
[16:17] <costyn> I have a Cisco 871 which I might put back into use for mobile devices and switch my Apple APs to 5GHz
[16:17] <fsphil> was the signal from the roof antenna would improve when it was raining
[16:17] <fsphil> I guess the rain was reflecting it back into the house
[16:17] <Ugi> scattering I should think
[16:17] <fsphil> yea
[16:18] <PA3WEG> I know those
[16:18] <PA3WEG> pretty decent, but the coaxial entry is fixed and rots shut...
[16:19] <PA3WEG> I recently threw one away because of that, i had to saw it open
[16:20] <fsphil> http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/images/2.4ghz_omni.jpeg
[16:20] <fsphil> I can't remember what gain it had
[16:20] <PA3WEG> that's a decent size
[16:21] <PA3WEG> coupled dipoles I presume?
[16:21] <PA3WEG> or one big element?
[16:21] <fsphil> not sure
[16:21] <PA3WEG> I'm re-using some of the WiFi antenns now for ATV
[16:21] <PA3WEG> but the frequencies are too far off...
[16:22] <PA3WEG> not omni by the way, but flat panel
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[16:23] <PA3WEG> any way, off to home, done working!
[16:23] <PA3WEG> TTYL
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[16:42] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-hdIwGcOL9o - well - it's sort of high altitude :)
[16:43] <SpeedEvil> Unpostprocessing.
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[16:46] <eroomde> valgrind sometimes reminds me of eddie izzard's british colonialist
[16:46] <eroomde> you argue with it
[16:46] <eroomde> and it basically just says "well, do you have a flag?"
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[17:03] <nigelvh> Morning all
[17:03] <SpeedEvil> Morening
[17:03] <nigelvh> How's the afternoon treating most of you?
[17:03] <SpeedEvil> Toothaches are not fun.
[17:04] <nigelvh> That sounds less than good.
[17:06] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "Re: [UKHAS] Launch announcement - Chalgrove 10 June - Vortex Flight 6"
[17:12] Ugi (5004924d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.4.146.77) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[17:12] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Launch announcement - Chalgrove 10 June - Vortex Flight 6"
[17:13] <eroomde> morgan freeman just hacked into steve's email account
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[17:26] <chrisstubbs> This whole repeater discussion seems to have got a little out of hand
[17:29] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/axW4x2n.gif
[17:29] <arko> i use to get crap from a local ham club about some stuff, i told them to complain to the FCC
[17:30] <arko> never got a knock on the door
[17:31] <nigelvh> What were you doing that pissed off the local club?
[17:31] <chrisstubbs> that gif took far too long to load :P
[17:32] <arko> i was hitting their repeater with cw tests "too much"
[17:32] <nigelvh> Were you IDing?
[17:32] <arko> yes
[17:32] <eroomde> chrisstubbs: well it seems to have finished now anyway
[17:32] <arko> i followed all the rules
[17:32] <nigelvh> Then you're legal, but annoying.
[17:32] <arko> yes
[17:32] <arko> but you know what
[17:32] <arko> no one what using it
[17:32] <arko> and my bursts were short
[17:32] <nigelvh> But people monitor it and it gets annoying.
[17:33] <arko> its not like i was doing it for an hour
[17:33] <nigelvh> It's commonly known as "kerchunking"
[17:33] <arko> blah
[17:33] <nigelvh> Tends to be frowned upon.
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[17:33] <ibanezmatt13_> I'm back :)
[17:34] <eroomde> there is lots of kerchunking on the one at cambridge
[17:34] <eroomde> at least there was
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[17:34] <nigelvh> Some repeaters actually time transmissions and if it's too short they play a message that says to please not do so.
[17:34] <arko> where is the fun in sitting around just listening to people farting into their mics about their health care and aarp
[17:34] <arko> not to mention
[17:34] <arko> this was their 3 repeater
[17:34] <arko> and the most unused one
[17:35] <arko> figured i'd give them a run
[17:35] <IRC_ukhas> Quit
[17:35] <nigelvh> Not a ton. That's why I don't do much talking on ham radio. Mostly I use it for experiments like balloons.
[17:35] <arko> i was a member too
[17:35] <arko> right!
[17:35] <arko> i was experimenting trying to see what kinda speeds i could get over computer to computer cw
[17:35] <arko> it was fun
[17:35] <arko> anyway
[17:35] <arko> </rant>
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[17:36] <nigelvh> Yes, but CW on a voice repeater is going to be annoying to the users.
[17:36] <arko> yeah
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[17:36] <arko> too bad there are no cw repeaters
[17:36] <ibanezmatt13_> I've been drawing up some schematics for the stripboard; it's going ok... If I'm powering the NTX2 straight off the 9v from the batteries, then I need to have a 9v rail on my stripboard don't I?
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[17:37] <arko> nigelvh: it really shows how much the fcc cares when 147.435 is still running
[17:37] <ibanezmatt13_> And then for the Pi, I need to regulate down to 5v, but I guess this doesn't go on the stripboard. But I need to regulate the 9v also to 3.3v for the GPS; will that go on the stripboard as a rail?
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[17:38] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: well depending on what regulators you use you might need the 9v supply on the board for them to as well.
[17:38] <ibanezmatt13_> The regulators won't be going onto the board, they're almost like components themselves with capacitors and all. So I was wondering whether I'd need to or not...
[17:39] <mfa298> even if the regs are on wires you may want to take them via the stripboard and attach the regs to the board as well (rather than have them floating around in the box)
[17:39] <mfa298> but that's more of the mechanical issue
[17:39] <ibanezmatt13_> I'm just thinking of whether I'd have room on the board
[17:41] <ibanezmatt13_> Just thought, the 9v will have to be a rail on the stripboard, otherwise I wouldn't be able to connect it to anything in parallel
[17:42] <ibanezmatt13_> I'll probably leave the regulators floating about because I can stabilise them when I make the box
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[17:43] <ibanezmatt13_> So as for rails, I'll need 9v and 3.3v. I guess seen as only the Pi will be on 5v, there's no need to worry about having it as a rail on the stripboard?
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[17:52] <mfa298> that should work
[17:52] <ibanezmatt13_> excellent
[17:52] <ibanezmatt13_> I hate drawing schematics :P
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[17:55] <mfa298> part of the trick to that is finding what works for you.
[17:55] <mfa298> I draw so few schematics I tend to still work on paper
[17:56] <mfa298> usually with several revisions
[17:56] <ibanezmatt13_> When I say drawing schematics, I'm basically doing terrible drawings on a piece of paper :)
[17:56] <mfa298> that's how mine start out.
[17:57] <mfa298> although I do like doing them on squared paper, which helps get the lines near to straight
[17:57] <ibanezmatt13_> Later on I'll send you them. I tried square paper before, but because I didn't have an idea what to do, I kept messing it up. So i thought I'd start rough first
[17:59] <griffonbot> Received email: Turan Orenbas "Re: [UKHAS] Clarification of two guides"
[17:59] <ibanezmatt13_> Ok, I've become a bit confused drawing the ground connections
[18:00] <Upu> wire them all together
[18:00] <ibanezmatt13_> All grounds are connected?
[18:00] <Upu> yes
[18:00] <nigelvh> Yes
[18:00] <ibanezmatt13_> ok
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[18:00] <Upu> all the same voltage level there
[18:00] <ibanezmatt13_> Are they?
[18:00] <Upu> yes
[18:00] <ibanezmatt13_> Oh I see, sorry
[18:00] <Upu> its ok
[18:00] <eroomde> well that's a slightly better question than 'i don;t understand'
[18:00] <eroomde> re: mailing list
[18:01] <Upu> indeed :)
[18:01] <Upu> I'll get Lunar to assist
[18:01] <eroomde> yes
[18:01] <eroomde> good thinking
[18:01] <mfa298> possibly a better way to think of the ground connection is that it's the reference point for everything else.
[18:01] <mfa298> but it's only a reference point of all grounds are the same - ie. connected
[18:01] <ibanezmatt13_> yeah, I'm forever overcomplicating issues
[18:03] Action: mfa298 wonders if that will be the first payload written in JavaScript (RE the email)
[18:03] <Upu> I think you're learning ibanezmatt13_ which is something to be commended
[18:03] <Upu> you're taking the time to understand what you're doing
[18:03] <Upu> and questioning everything
[18:03] <Upu> carry on
[18:03] <ibanezmatt13_> You wouldn't believe how much I have learned recently. The ammount is phenomenal :)
[18:04] <Upu> I would as I've been there
[18:04] <Upu> :)
[18:05] <mfa298> the key thing to remember is that we're all learning still - just different things. As you learn more you realise there's even more you don't know.
[18:05] <eroomde> thinking about voltage in terms of 'potential difference' is very useful, i find
[18:05] <ibanezmatt13_> As do I
[18:05] <eroomde> i.e. a voltage isn't an absolute thing, it's a value which is the difference between the potential of two points
[18:05] <ibanezmatt13_> I remember the first time I was taught it in school in terms of a waterfall and the potential at the two different points
[18:06] <ibanezmatt13_> Makes logical sense really
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[18:06] <ibanezmatt13_> You wouldn't think water would relate so well to electricity...
[18:06] <eroomde> so ground doesn't really mean anything in an absolute sense, it's just an arbitrary reference that you use to compare other things too
[18:06] <eroomde> fluids and electricity relate really well together
[18:06] <eroomde> it starts to do it again at very high frequencies too
[18:07] <eroomde> if you want to split a very high frequency track, you have to start doing the bend radius and thicknesses very carefully
[18:07] <eroomde> in the same way you might with a high pressure hose
[18:07] <ibanezmatt13_> Ok, I've finished one diagram. It's basically a piece of stripboard and it shows how everything's connected onto it. What it doesn't show however are the regulators and the Pi and things like that.
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[18:09] <mfa298> For those sorts of things you could draw them as boxes around the edge of the stripboard with the various wires marked (purpose and identification are useful)
[18:10] <ibanezmatt13_> Yeah good idea, it would have helped if I hadn't have taken up a whole page for the stripboard...
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[18:10] <mfa298> if you havn't got space for the actual devices just draw wires going off the edge and mark what they are etc.
[18:11] <ibanezmatt13_> Or on a separate piece I could just do a top down view of pretty much everything but instead of all the connections on the stripboard, just show the power lines going into and out of it
[18:13] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Clarification of two guides"
[18:14] <ibanezmatt13_> If I'm not using the Pi's GPIO header at all, not even to power it, I don't need to touch that ground pin on the header do I? Or do I?
[18:14] <mfa298> what's the odds on this next thread becoming as long as the repeaters one?
[18:15] <mfa298> I *think* the ground pin on the GPIO header is exactly the same as the TP (but not checked recently so could be wrong)
[18:16] <ibanezmatt13_> If I'm powering Pi with the two TPs, I don't think I need to touch it. I'll be using the TX and RX on the Pi's header but there won't be any voltage outputs from the Pi.
[18:18] <mfa298> remember that ground is also the reference point for the digital signals (rx/tx)
[18:18] <mfa298> but as long as the grounds are connected somewhere you should be fine
[18:19] <ibanezmatt13_> Ah of course, never thought of that. In which case I will need to connect the Pi's ground pin to the ground rail on the stripboard
[18:20] <ibanezmatt13_> OK, I'm just gonna go and scan these drawings onto the PC; I shall be no more than 5 minutes I hope :)
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[18:26] <ibanezmatt13_> Ok, I've uploaded them to Dropbox, I'll get a link now
[18:27] <ibanezmatt13_> Here's one: https://www.dropbox.com/s/q0kr4vynmydth6y/scan0002.jpg
[18:28] <ibanezmatt13_> Here's the other: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8s41vead41oxzje/scan0003.jpg
[18:28] <ibanezmatt13_> One of them is a representation of a stripboard (the one with resistors and stuff), the other is more a physical representation
[18:30] <mfa298> I think that's got everything, it's a bit akward with two diagrams
[18:30] <ibanezmatt13_> I've just realised that the scan has missed a little bit of one of them. Where those wires go off the page to the left, it's the 9v rail
[18:31] <ibanezmatt13_> Yeah, I'll try to make it a little neater at some point. But if I were to make the stripboard part according to that, would it go ok?
[18:31] <ibanezmatt13_> Should work good enough for the actual flight I imagine
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[18:35] <mfa298> i think so
[18:35] <ibanezmatt13_> good good :)
[18:35] <mfa298> i was just trying to see if I could sketch how I would have drawn it both as schematic and as layout
[18:36] <mfa298> I'm just wondering if the resistor values will still be right with a different psu for the ntx2
[18:36] <ibanezmatt13_> err... that I must admit I do not know
[18:36] <mfa298> not sure what the answer is off hand though
[18:36] <ibanezmatt13_> perhaps we should ask daveake?
[18:37] <daveake> see the wiki :)
[18:37] <ibanezmatt13_> I'd better check the Wiki :)
[18:38] <daveake> brb food
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[18:39] <ibanezmatt13_> ah, it's to do with the vcc pin on the NTX2
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[18:40] <ibanezmatt13_> Although I thought with the onboard regulation, the incoming VCC voltage shouldn't matter... But hey I'll keep looking :)
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[18:44] <mfa298> the think to look at is what the txd pin expects
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[18:45] <ibanezmatt13_> That expects a voltage of up to 3v
[18:46] <ibanezmatt13_> I'm not quite sure what the TX pin on the Pi outputs so I'll check that now
[18:47] <ibanezmatt13_> ok so the TXD like most pins on Pi outputs 3.3v
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[18:49] <mfa298> The question to look at is what the voltages will be going into txd on the ntx2 when the output from the pi is high (3v3) and when the output is low (0v)
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[18:49] <ibanezmatt13_> I remember doing this with daveake
[18:49] <ibanezmatt13_> :)
[18:50] <ibanezmatt13_> I'll see if I can work it out myself
[18:51] <mfa298> there might actually be an easy solution that doesn't require any sums
[18:51] <ibanezmatt13_> really
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[18:53] <mfa298> I'm just trying to scan a schematic version which I think matches what you've drawn.
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[18:54] <ibanezmatt13_> Ok, I'm gonna try and do it the sums way and see what I ge
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[18:54] <ibanezmatt13_> get*
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[18:55] <mfa298> this is what I think you have: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14636926/ntx2_pi_1.jpg
[18:56] <ibanezmatt13_> that looks pretty damn correct. Did you draw that?
[18:57] <mfa298> yes
[18:57] <mfa298> that was the 2nd full version
[18:57] <ibanezmatt13_> thank you very much. That looks a lot better than having it on two images
[18:58] <mfa298> that's more of a schematic than a layout so you'de need it more as a layout for putting it onto stripboard
[18:58] <ibanezmatt13_> I see. I think what I drew before was ok for the stripboard, but this is perfect for the whole schematic
[18:59] <mfa298> ooops just realised that one missed a line that was on version 1
[18:59] <mfa298> I missed the groun from the Pi (which I think you can take eaither from TP2 or the gpio)
[18:59] <mfa298> but in terms of the voltages for the NTX2 it might be a bit clearer where it's likely to be from that schematic
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13_> I thought that TP1 and TP2 went into the 5v reg?
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13_> Yeah it does sorry
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[19:01] <ibanezmatt13_> So does that mean you'd still need to connect the ground pin on the GPIO to the ground rail on the stripboard as well?
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[19:01] <mfa298> I think TP2 and the GPIO ground are the same thing so it doesn't matter which is connected
[19:03] <ibanezmatt13_> I see. I was just thinking that the TP1 and TP2 being connected to the REG would mean that the GPIO pin would have to be grounded as well for the TXD and RXD pins to work. I think you're right though
[19:04] <mfa298> there *is* a missing connection. Question is just where to make it.
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[19:04] <ibanezmatt13_> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2 on this guide in the formula where it multiplies the resistances by VCC, is VCC in my case gonna be 9V. I wouldn't have thought so seen as it will slowly decrease from 9v over time but still
[19:06] <fsphil> it'll be the voltage of the logic level of whatever is driving it
[19:06] <ibanezmatt13_> so not the PSU?
[19:06] <ibanezmatt13_> The Pi's TXD logic levels?
[19:07] <fsphil> 3.3v
[19:07] <fsphil> ideally
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[19:07] <fsphil> most arduino boards have 5v logic level
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13_> Ok, thanks. Just got a bit confused when we were talking about VCC being 9v earlier :p
[19:08] <fsphil> and there's been a few boards running at 1.8v
[19:08] <ibanezmatt13_> yeah, it's because I thought VCC was the voltage going from the PSU into the NTX2
[19:08] <fsphil> just to add to the confusion :)
[19:08] <fsphil> nah, that's regulated down to 3.something volts internally in the ntx2
[19:08] <mfa298> this is my version of the schematic with the added ground: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14636926/ntx2_pi_2.jpg
[19:09] <ibanezmatt13_> fsphil, not 5v?
[19:09] <ibanezmatt13_> mfa298, I'll take a look
[19:09] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13_: actually it runs on 2.8v internally
[19:09] <fsphil> just checked the datasheet
[19:10] <ibanezmatt13_> So it regulates my 9v input down to 2.8 wow
[19:10] <fsphil> yea. a fair drop
[19:10] <fsphil> most of that makes heat :)
[19:10] <ibanezmatt13_> mfa298, I see what you've done. That makes sense, allthough it doesn't sound like a very easy thing to do
[19:11] <ibanezmatt13_> If I have a wire going from TP2 to the regulator...
[19:11] <mfa298> in terms of the ground it probably depends on what's connected where.
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13_> hmm. Well for power, I thought TP1 and TP2 would only go to the regulator. And then I thought for the TXD and RXD on the Pi, they could be grounded on the common ground rail via a wire form the ground pin on thw GPIO
[19:12] <mfa298> for your regs then using the ground on the gpio is probably easiest
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> HELLO
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> IS IT ME YOURE LOOKING FOR?
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:13] <mfa298> if you did a second board with regulators on the stripboard then using TP2 might be easier
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[19:13] <ibanezmatt13_> probably :)
[19:14] <fsphil> you'd probably be easier to power the ntx2 from 3.3v
[19:14] <fsphil> it and the gps
[19:15] <ibanezmatt13_> I didn't know I could power the NTX2 from 3.3v... That's quite handy to know
[19:15] <ibanezmatt13_> But it doesn't really make a difference does it?
[19:15] <mfa298> the trick is to learn to read the datasheets
[19:15] <fsphil> puts less load on your 5v reg
[19:15] <fsphil> which will be powering the pi+cam
[19:16] <ibanezmatt13_> fair enough :) That makes sense
[19:16] <fsphil> just as long as the 3.3v reg can handle the load of both the ntx2 and gps
[19:16] <mfa298> in terms of it making a difference it could make a difference to the board layout and getting useful voltage levels into the NTX2
[19:16] <fsphil> which it should be able to
[19:16] <ibanezmatt13_> yeah suppose so. I'll re draw my schematics :)
[19:17] <steve_____> I was going to ask Daveake about his mod'ed model a
[19:17] <fsphil> a lower input voltage would save you some wasted power
[19:17] <ibanezmatt13_> it would :)
[19:17] <steve_____> from his blog he looks like he replaced the regulator on it
[19:18] <fsphil> yea, the 3.3v vreg on the Pi is a bit rubbish
[19:18] <steve_____> he stated that he ran the pi on 3v incoming vcc
[19:18] <mfa298> I should have drawn my version a bit bigger so there was space to add more info to it (those squares are 5mm)
[19:18] <steve_____> that included the cammera
[19:18] <fsphil> yea
[19:18] <fsphil> the only thing that uses 5v on the Pi.A is the USB socket
[19:18] <mfa298> I think for the A the only thing that uses 5v is the usb
[19:18] <steve_____> which would be nice as you could run the whole circuit on 3v3
[19:19] <fsphil> yep
[19:19] <fsphil> that said, you still need to put 3.3v onto the 5v rail
[19:19] <fsphil> or it won't boot
[19:20] <ibanezmatt13_> 3.3v regulated needs to go onto pin 2 5v on the Pi's GPIO?
[19:20] <fsphil> only if the Pi's own vreg is removed
[19:20] <ibanezmatt13_> oh, nah that's staying
[19:21] <fsphil> yea I wouldn't recommend it for your first board :)
[19:21] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: for yours I think you just needs to change how the ntx2 (and associated stuff) is powered
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[19:21] <mfa298> I also highly recommend squared paper if you have it. that's the only reason my schematic was reasonably neat
[19:22] <fsphil> not just me that can't draw a straight line then
[19:22] <mfa298> and a decent (fine tipped) pen/pencil
[19:23] <ibanezmatt13_> So the NTX2 is being powered from its own connection to the 5v regulator, not by the Pi? And the 5v pin on the Pi's GPIO will have regulated 3.3v coming into it?
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[19:23] <fsphil> no
[19:23] <fsphil> you're only providing the Pi with 5v
[19:24] <ibanezmatt13_> Ok scratch that what I said
[19:24] <fsphil> so basically, power the Pi from a 5v reg. power the ntx2 and gps from a 3.3v reg
[19:24] <fsphil> job jobbed :)
[19:25] <ibanezmatt13_> Yes sorted!
[19:25] <ibanezmatt13_> Thanks :)
[19:25] <steve_____> Here is my circuit so far https://www.dropbox.com/s/m0dm5i5aa659e0n/tracker.jpg
[19:25] <fsphil> you do have choices with the ntx2, so you could power it from either vreg
[19:25] <steve_____> I am planning on running the pi on 3v3 if possible
[19:25] <fsphil> but the 3.3v probably makes more sense
[19:26] <fsphil> using an avr just to interface the gps and pi?
[19:26] <mfa298> steve_____ obviously doesn't believe in drawing schematics by hand :p
[19:26] <steve_____> I am going to take photos on the pi and log telemetry
[19:27] <steve_____> the avr is going to transmit and read the gps
[19:27] <Phil_M0DNY> mfa298: I've given up doing digital schematics except for PCB layout, it takes ages!
[19:28] <steve_____> I need to figure out how to access the 2nd UART on the avr but thats going to change as I want to interface to the pi as well
[19:28] <fsphil> 328 only has one uart
[19:28] <steve_____> I already have it reading a telemetry string from the avr and am considering sending pictures for transmission but thats a nice to have
[19:28] <mfa298> for quick things I prefer doing it by hand. As it get's more complicated I can see some point in doing digital, it get's annoying redrawing it when there's too many corrections on the drawn version
[19:28] <steve_____> I thought it had 2
[19:29] <ibanezmatt13_> I may have calculated this wrong, but before when I was calculating the shift between the TXD low and high for Pi, I've ended up with a 1.07v shift. Now that is definitely incorrect
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[19:29] <Upu> steve_____ you need decoupling caps on max6 VCC and AVR vcc's
[19:30] <Upu> certainly incorrect ibanezmatt13_ as shift is measured in hz not volts :)
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[19:30] <ibanezmatt13_> I meant the voltage differential between a high and low output, sorry
[19:30] <ibanezmatt13_> But that translates into shift
[19:30] <Upu> I know I was being pedantic
[19:30] <fsphil> getting your 5vs and 3.3vs mixed?
[19:31] <fsphil> +'
[19:31] <ibanezmatt13_> well I thought 3.3v was vcc
[19:31] <mfa298> also remember that the shift will be dependant on the vcc voltage to the potential divider, the logic levels into it and the resistor values
[19:31] <Babs> Fsphil - some good bird cam analysis on spring watch bbc2 now
[19:31] <fsphil> your logic level is 3.3v
[19:31] <ibanezmatt13_> Yeah I multiplied by 3.3v
[19:32] <fsphil> Babs: oooh, will check that out shortly, recording it
[19:32] <ibanezmatt13_> I used the formulas on this page http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[19:32] <Upu> have those been fixed ?
[19:32] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:ntx2_divider.jpg
[19:32] <Babs> I'm glad you are recording, because 5 secs after I wrote that they cut away from the camera truck they had been talking through !
[19:33] <ibanezmatt13_> I changed R3 to 30k and VCC to 3.3v
[19:33] <Upu> Adam is better
[19:33] <Upu> Adams
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13_> So with Adam's example, I just change R3 to 30k, and I change where he multiplies by 5v to 3.3v?
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13_> That should work?
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13_> I have to leave now I'm afraid, Maths exam for me tomorrow. Thanks for the help.
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13_> :)
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[19:43] <steve_____> Upu if I run the circuit of a voltage regulator such as http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=DC+Buck+Step-Down+Voltage+Adjustable+Converter+Power+Module+Regulator+LM2596+New&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0&_nkw=DC+Buck+Step-Down+Voltage+Adjustable+Converter+Power+Module+Regulator+LM2596&_sacat=0 do I still need decoupling capacitors?
[19:43] <SpeedEvil> If you mean do you need external ones - maybe not
[19:43] <SpeedEvil> It depends on how sensitive your device is, and what the output spikes are like
[19:48] <Phil_M0DNY> steve_____: I got one of those modules recently, if you're using anything over 1A you *will* need more decoupling!
[19:49] <steve_____> ok :)
[19:49] <Phil_M0DNY> With 2A load at 6V output I had 1V of ripple..
[19:49] <Phil_M0DNY> I soldered on a few more electrolytics and it reduced it to an 'ok' level.
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[19:51] <SpeedEvil> Phil_M0DNY: Ow
[19:54] <Phil_M0DNY> Indeed.. looking at the reg datasheet I think the one on there might be fake, or the capacitors are fake, or both!
[19:54] <Phil_M0DNY> But.. with a few additional capacitors it worked for me.
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[19:59] <LeoBodnar> Evening chaps
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> I've managed to work out that there is a 0.24v shift between the TXD high and TXD low.
[20:00] <Upu> evening Leo
[20:00] <ibanezmatt13> How do I turn 0.24v voltage shift into hz?
[20:00] <ibanezmatt13> Do I need that graph?
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> I know how to do it now, it's ok :)
[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> for my two voltages for high and low, do I just draw a vertical line on that graph on the Wiki of frequency against voltage?
[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> And see the difference in hz between them?
[20:04] <LeoBodnar> I am cleaning my RTTY code. What is the best code to transmit while idling? Similar to NUL in Baudot. I thought 0x7F is the best (for 7N2) because it leaves only start bits in the transmission.
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[20:05] <Upu> don't idle
[20:05] <Upu> just keep transmitting
[20:06] <Upu> ibanezmatt13 I think the NTX2 is about 0.005v per hz
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: With my current setup it's exactly a 500hz shift
[20:06] <Upu> its on the wiki
[20:07] <Upu> well sorted
[20:07] <LeoBodnar> I have interrupt based RTTY code and if TX queue is empty it will transmit idle character instead. Sometimes the information is not ready yet.
[20:07] <Upu> make it ready :)
[20:07] <Upu> null is fine
[20:07] <steve_____> :)
[20:08] <steve_____> Upu - your example interrupt based code has an optional delay
[20:08] <Upu> never said I used it :P
[20:08] <Upu> that code is pretty rough tbh
[20:08] <LeoBodnar> I'll stick with all ones (0x7F / 0xFF) - fldigi ignores it as I can see.
[20:08] <steve_____> I have it working just fine
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[20:09] <steve_____> and i also use the UART to send to my pi for logging
[20:10] <LeoBodnar> I have been trying to align different branches in the interrupt code to the same timing. Otherwise bit edges jitter and signal spectrum looks "dirty" at high baudrates.
[20:10] <Upu> there was something up with it I can't recall what it was
[20:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> Anyone got the time http://anomaly.org/wade/projects/svgClocks/color-bands.svg
[20:12] <chrisstubbs> Oh man thats cool :)
[20:13] <chrisstubbs> One of my first computing projects was to make a clock, that would have been a cool one
[20:13] <steve_____> case 1: // Initialise transmission, take a copy of the string so it doesn't change mid transmission.
[20:13] <steve_____> &.
[20:13] <steve_____> read_telematry=1;
[20:13] <steve_____> break;
[20:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> I think that idea would be just right for a Pebble
[20:14] <LeoBodnar> Lol. Geekiness squared
[20:15] <LeoBodnar> It needs a massive resistor mockup with internally lit bands
[20:18] <LeoBodnar> Does habitat parser accept integer strings instead of floats? I.e. can I substitute "3.00" for just "3". Cleaning and leaning my code but too clever a code usually bites your back.
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[20:18] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> mfa298: have you spotted the "obvious" error with your NTX2/Pi schematic? Not sure if you're leaving it as an exercise for the reader ;-)
[20:18] <Upu> yep LeoBodnar it can accept a variety of data formats
[20:20] <LeoBodnar> I mean in the course of the session, if the field is declared as float and the results uploaded are 2.98 2.99 3 3.01 Would it accept 3 with no decimal point in the float field?
[20:21] <Upu> possibly not
[20:21] <Phil_M0DNY> h4yn0nnym0u5e: I'm not seeing it..
[20:21] <Upu> best check with DanielRichman or Randomskk
[20:21] <mfa298> h4yn0nnym0u5e: it was an attempt at redrawing the diagrams someone else had done, there was definetly an obvious mistake in the first version of it
[20:22] <LeoBodnar> OK, I'll try not to be too efficient.
[20:22] <DanielRichman> yes, it does
[20:22] <DanielRichman> a float field will parse "3" just fine
[20:22] <DanielRichman> in addition, you can specify fields as integer-only
[20:22] <LeoBodnar> Cool, thanks DR
[20:22] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> pull-up to 9V - makes the swing from 4.17V to 4.41V, which is outside the 0-3V accepted input swing
[20:23] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> also will drift as the unregulated 9V drops
[20:23] <LeoBodnar> Where is the schematic for this?
[20:23] <mfa298> h4yn0nnym0u5e: I'd spotted that was going to be an issue - which is what I'd started trying to guide the person doing it towards
[20:24] <mfa298> I think he's now going for runninf the ntx2 from the 3v3 reg instead - so will solve that
[20:24] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> So long as it doesn't blow up the NTX2 input if he tries it
[20:24] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> Will be fine if he does use the 3.3V
[20:25] <mfa298> it's just a redraw of the two diagrams ibanezmatt13 had drawn done just before
[20:26] <DanielRichman> LeoBodnar: habitat is open source, if that's what you mean: https://github.com/ukhas/habitat
[20:26] <DanielRichman> otherwise, have a play with http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[20:27] <LeoBodnar> Thank you, will have a look
[20:28] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> so I saw; he's found the wiki...
[20:28] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> ...but that assumes the GPIO swings from 0V to Vcc (single supply)
[20:28] <LeoBodnar> How can I get dl-fldigi to control arbitrary the Az/El platform?
[20:29] <Upu> you don't there is a 3rd party program by Phil_M0DNY
[20:29] <Upu> that does it
[20:29] <mfa298> I was half hoping from my version of the schematic that the quick fix would have been to change the resitor going to 9v to use the 5v or 3v3 pin on the pi gpio (depending on resistor values)
[20:29] <Upu> you have a rotator interface ?
[20:29] <LeoBodnar> Thanks Upu
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[20:29] <Upu> https://www.thecraag.com/HABrotate
[20:30] <LeoBodnar> I have Meade telescope that I want to follow the ballon.
[20:30] <LeoBodnar> balloon*
[20:30] <Upu> oh ok
[20:30] <Upu> well this may be of use : http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=372
[20:30] <Upu> depends how it interfances
[20:30] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> I'd've picked the 3v3 from the Pi, myself, then the wiki diagram works (with the 30k he's spotted)
[20:31] <LeoBodnar> So I need to get the data back from the website?
[20:31] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> wiki equation for TXDhigh is wrong though, should have +R4 on the denominator
[20:31] <Upu> thats what HABRotate does
[20:32] <mfa298> agreed, the only real reason for the 5v was he originally used the ntx2 with 5v so had already done the resistors for that
[20:33] <LeoBodnar> The delay could be a bit too high, this also precludes off-line use, hmmm. Interesting problem, if I could get data directly from dl-fldigi
[20:34] <Upu> I think thats possible too
[20:34] <mfa298> the equations have been looked at a few times so should be correct now
[20:34] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> plus he wants to run the Pi from 5V rather than go for a 3.3V-only system
[20:35] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> which is sensible as it lowers the load on his own 3v3 regulator
[20:35] <mfa298> I wonder if the wiki needs a note stating that the configs are only valid if the NTX2 is powered from 5v or 3v3.
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[20:36] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> or to distinguish the GPIO voltage from NTX2 Vcc
[20:36] <mfa298> that as well
[20:36] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> and make R5 pull up to that
[20:40] <steve_____> while we are on the topic of the NTX2 I was looking at antenna's and I read that the Hadie3 flight used a piece of coax successfully using the shielding as the ground plane - is that the recommended approach?
[20:41] <steve_____> I couldn't find anything on the wiki about it
[20:41] <Upu> the shaggi
[20:41] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/5431825038_b623e5ca8e_o.jpg
[20:41] <bertrik> steve_____: do you have a picture of that antenna?
[20:42] <Upu> fine if you want to loose the will to live
[20:42] <steve_____> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/sets/72157626013096240/
[20:42] <Upu> they aren't pleasant to make
[20:42] <steve_____> I can imagine
[20:42] <fsphil> I cheat now
[20:42] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> I believe the wiki equation *is* wrong, but gives correct results so long as R4==R5
[20:42] <fsphil> I only have little stumpy radials, and solder a wire to each
[20:42] <Upu> yep thats what I do
[20:43] <fsphil> far quicker :)
[20:46] <steve_____> so you still use the shielding as the stump radials?
[20:46] <fsphil> yea
[20:47] <fsphil> my last one had about 3cm of shield left, which I split into four and twisted
[20:47] <fsphil> then soldered the wire on each to bring it up to the proper length
[20:47] <steve_____> well that would seem nice and simple
[20:47] <fsphil> much simpler than untwisting 16cm of the shield
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[20:48] <fsphil> there are better things to be doing with your life than that :)
[20:48] <steve_____> Is there any reason to use the shielding at all?
[20:48] <fsphil> you need a ground plane
[20:48] <LeoBodnar> Anybody used any fancy antennas like fractal ones, etc?
[20:49] <steve_____> any reason not to just use the 4 wires - rather than attaching them to the shielding
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[20:50] <fsphil> where else would you attach them to?
[20:50] <bertrik> I think you could use a square piece of copper PCB as ground plane
[20:50] <fsphil> yep but that would be heavy
[20:50] <fsphil> and breakable
[20:50] <mfa298> square piece of PCB could also get expensive
[20:50] <bertrik> hm, yes probably
[20:50] <fsphil> one of the reasons I used just the coax was there are no joins, and it would survive landing
[20:51] <mfa298> 4 bits of wire are good enough. You can always use more if you want (but limited benefit)
[20:51] <steve_____> :)
[20:51] <fsphil> my second antenna on hadie2 was soldered together from wire, no coax, and it failed horribly
[20:53] <mfa298> but as fsphil said the radials need to connect to the shield of the coax otherwise they're just random bits of wire that don't do anything
[20:54] <steve_____> does the other end need to be connected via a sma plug then or equivalent - I was just going to attach the centre strand directly on to the NTX2 RF pin
[20:55] <Upu> that will do
[20:55] <mfa298> at the ntx2 the shield connects to RF ground, and the centre to RF out
[20:55] <Upu> and connect the gnd to the RF gnd too
[20:55] <mfa298> which can be via an sma or direct
[20:56] <Jess--> if it helps anyone here is how the antenna on titan-one was put together (please remember it was only sending 1mW) http://www.titanballoon.co.uk/payloads/titan-one_bare.jpg
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[20:58] <steve_____> The data sheet doesn't mention hooking up the RF gnd with a whip antenna
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[20:59] <mfa298> I suspect the data sheet doesn't give a particularly efficient antenna (I dont think I've read that bit of it)
[21:00] <mfa298> they're not expecting you to want 10s of km at altitude.
[21:00] <mfa298> most people only want a few 10s of meters
[21:00] <steve_____> ok - I am still very new at this stuff so any advice is appreciated :)
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[21:02] <mfa298> RF is a bit like any other energy source it's just that the energy gets converted into energy by the antenna
[21:03] <mfa298> having a good bit of metal for each side of that gives a better antenna. With the best length being dependant on frequency
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[21:04] <steve_____> Well if I build a successful tracker then I'll write the wiki page for antenna's :)
[21:04] <mfa298> if you're interested in the RF side of things it's well worth finding your local radio club and potentially doing some of the amateur radio exams
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[21:05] <steve_____> I wasn't before I started
[21:07] <steve_____> Its quite interesting, I think I mentioned before having a chat with a local commication store owner about bouncing signals of the moon and also around the world off the atomphere
[21:07] <mfa298> there's also a lot of books on antennas and antenna theory if you want some bed time reading
[21:08] <mfa298> if you've ever listened to SW radio for distant stations they will have bounced off the ionosphere/atmosphere
[21:09] <mfa298> anyhow I'd highly recommend doing at least the foundation course then you'll learn a bit about the various things.
[21:09] <steve_____> the guy said that he sometimes could hear himself a few seconds later after the signal had bounced all the way around the worlf
[21:10] <mfa298> One of my first experiences of amateur radio was EME (bouncing signals off the moon) as a way to measure the distance of the moon (this was a science type course)
[21:12] <steve_____> I don't get the postcard exchanges - are they real physical post cards or data transmissions
[21:13] <mfa298> used to be lots of real postcards as a confirmation of the contact.
[21:13] <mfa298> it's also done online now
[21:13] Nick change: AndChat|8064 -> g7swp
[21:14] <mfa298> not everyone does it. Although they're often done for special events
[21:14] <mfa298> you can see some examples if you search google for "QSL Cards"
[21:15] <Jess--> simple rule for 1/4 wave antennas... 7500 divided by desired freq then multiply the answer by 0.9 (to allow for the velocity factor) and you have your ideal wire length in cm
[21:15] <mfa298> often they can be sent via a local organisation so actual postage costs are fairly low - you send a batch in and they then get sorted and sent onwards
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[21:16] <g7swp> What's the full extent of the 434 band that gets used for hab ?
[21:18] <Upu> are you on the mailing list g7swp ?
[21:19] Action: chrisstubbs regrets starting this argument
[21:19] <g7swp> Possibly, not read to much email over the past few days. Why?
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> http://hackaday.com/2013/06/10/gesture-control-uses-wifi-doppler-shift/#comments
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> wow
[21:20] <Upu> 434.040 -> 434.790
[21:21] <g7swp> OK.
[21:21] <g7swp> Thanks.
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> evening Anthony
[21:21] <g7swp> Sounds like I should go read the mailing list
[21:22] <Upu> seriously don't :)
[21:23] <fsphil> yea not missing much
[21:23] <Upu> well do just ignore that threadnaught
[21:23] <fsphil> yes the list is otherwise good
[21:24] <g7swp> Upu: wanted to check as we're ordering our ground station in the next few weeks and hab work is one of the things we want to do.
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> uh oh
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> frequency nerdrage ?
[21:24] <fsphil> your head will megahurtz
[21:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> IT GOES IN CYCLES
[21:24] <g7swp> Oh dear
[21:24] <Upu> you don't need much g7swp
[21:24] <fsphil> oh very good
[21:25] <Upu> colinear up high and a FCD
[21:25] <Upu> or USB TV dongle if you're on a real budget
[21:25] <Upu> obligatory link to HAB Amp which may help the USB dongle :
[21:25] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=72_73
[21:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> How's the build work goong ?
[21:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> +going
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[21:26] <Upu> done
[21:26] <Upu> will post tomorrow
[21:26] <Upu> have them here now
[21:26] <g7swp> Yeah, that's fine, but if we can reuse the sat kit then we get all the benefits of proper rigs, and evz, as tracking
[21:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh goody, I was expecting to have to box them on Friday! Thankyou!
[21:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> well one of them
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[21:27] <Upu> tested tonight
[21:28] <Upu> and drilled the Hammond enclosures
[21:28] <Upu> will fix up and post tomorrow
[21:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Sounds the job ;-)
[21:30] <steve_____> BTW - do we know what went wrong with the HABE flight on sat, how come the signal was so weak?
[21:31] <steve_____> Was it ultimately recovered?
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[21:31] <Ugi_> Last I heard it was at the top of a mahoosive tree.
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[21:31] Nick change: DrLuke__ -> DrLuke
[21:31] <mfa298> don't think there have been any more updates about HABE yet
[21:32] <Upu> stuck up a tree
[21:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> Like here http://i.imgur.com/PddrdKy.jpg
[21:33] <steve_____> I was looking forward to testing my new HAB Amp and I don't think it was the best flight to test it on :)
[21:33] <steve_____> oh - well at least you found it
[21:34] <Ugi_> Some sort of quadcopter razor-blade mod is called for in those situations!
[21:34] <mfa298> todays flights were a lot better and hopefully the flights next weekend will be better
[21:34] <Ugi_> I was amazed that the Oxford landing tracked all the way to the ground
[21:35] <mfa298> depends on where people are located
[21:35] <mfa298> Astra managed to track one flight down this way from before launch until the batteries died (that one also ended in a tree)
[21:36] <mfa298> and I tracked one launched in the new forest from before it launching
[21:36] <Ugi_> Damn trees
[21:36] <mfa298> but for the one I got before it launched I had a good location for it (one of the few times my location has been good)
[21:37] <Ugi_> I suspect it will be too built up around where I am to catch many low to the ground, but who knows.
[21:37] <chrisstubbs> Upu, how far in advance does that HYSPLIT predictor work?
[21:37] <Ugi_> Pico-cheapo next weekend will only be a few miles away.
[21:38] <chrisstubbs> Ugi_ you are in brentwood right?
[21:38] <Ugi_> right
[21:38] <Upu> its based on the GFS model
[21:38] <Upu> so same as that really anything >3 days is going to have a significant margin of error
[21:38] <Ugi_> you're launching from Chelmsford way?
[21:38] <Ugi_> I'm spitting distance from Shenfield station.
[21:38] <chrisstubbs> Ugi_, thats the plan!
[21:39] <nigelvh> Youtube down for you guys?
[21:39] <chrisstubbs> Danbury if its light winds and bicknacre if not so light
[21:39] <chrisstubbs> And thanks Upu, will have a play with how to set it up now, looks complicated!
[21:39] <Upu> nah not too complex
[21:39] <Upu> pick isobaric
[21:40] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: are you planning a float ?
[21:40] <chrisstubbs> If its possible to float such a small balloon with a 50g payload then yes :P
[21:40] <chrisstubbs> Was going for a "low ascent rate see what happens" thing
[21:40] <mfa298> could be interesting
[21:41] <chrisstubbs> Hope so :)
[21:41] <mfa298> I'll be interested to see where the predictions go
[21:42] <mfa298> hopefully in a direction I can pick it up.
[21:42] <Ugi_> I'll not be home by 4pm but if it stays up a while then hopefully I can track for a bit after work.
[21:42] <chrisstubbs> Cool :)
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs,
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> check this prediction out http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=6c6a8282a71da3eb0679f82a977bbbf31ce61546
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:43] <mfa298> nigelvh: got a 502 error from youtube
[21:43] <chrisstubbs> Yeah shame about the timing but i hope it stays up long enough for people to get involved!
[21:43] <nigelvh> Yeah, it's not working so good.
[21:43] <mfa298> worked 2nd time (first attempt seemed to try https)
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> hi nigelvh
[21:44] <nigelvh> Howdy
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> I think this is a prediction one can dream of
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> what do you say?
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[21:45] <chrisstubbs> Lol nothing like a short range one
[21:45] <nigelvh> We've had one drop within a couple blocks of where we launched it.
[21:45] Ugi (545cd630@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.92.214.48) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[21:45] <Ugi_> Odd - I'm still here.
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:45] <chrisstubbs> nigelvh, what balloon?
[21:46] <nigelvh> What kind? It was a 1600 if I recall.
[21:46] <chrisstubbs> Ouch
[21:46] <nigelvh> No, it was a full flight. 120,000ft, just magically fell right next to us.
[21:46] <chrisstubbs> Oh sorry im with you! haha
[21:47] <chrisstubbs> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/18811_trj001.gif looks promising if I did that right!
[21:48] <Ugi_> that would be quite a flight!
[21:48] <Ugi_> how are you powering this for so long on 50g?
[21:48] <chrisstubbs> 3x aaa
[21:48] <chrisstubbs> I have some half used ones in there at the moment
[21:49] <Ugi_> That must be half your weight.
[21:49] <chrisstubbs> well i say half used, they are about 0.1v down per cell
[21:49] <mfa298> might need Lunar_Lander and the polish guys to be ready with radios
[21:49] <chrisstubbs> If it looks like its going that direction closer to the time then that would be much appreciated!
[21:49] <chrisstubbs> How do we go about summoning them? :P
[21:50] <eroomde> there is no protocol to summon lunar lander
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:50] <eroomde> that kind of dark magic was banished by the ancients many flights ago
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[21:50] <eroomde> he just arrives
[21:50] S_Mark (~S_Mark@79-75-90-38.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> *knight rider music*
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> he arrives
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> Lunar Rider
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:51] <eroomde> lunar rider is a good name
[21:51] <arko> you germans and hasselhoff
[21:51] <eroomde> next balloon should be called that :)
[21:51] <arko> so silly
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:51] <eroomde> dude, hasselhoff brought down the berlin wall
[21:51] <eroomde> i was alive then, i remember
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> microprocessor controlled
[21:51] <arko> HAHAHAHAHAHA
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> turbine driven
[21:51] <chrisstubbs> Evening S_Mark
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> radio receiving
[21:51] <S_Mark> Hey chrisstubbs
[21:52] <arko> you almost made me crack up laughing in this quite office
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> Lunar Rider, a Man and his Car for exploring the stratosphere
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[21:52] <eroomde> upu was thinking of selling kits too
[21:53] <S_Mark> hey Lunar_Lander
[21:53] <S_Mark> Been up in sunny Scotland for the weekend
[21:53] <S_Mark> first time
[21:53] <Upu> mmm ?
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[21:54] <fsphil> not often you hear the words sunny and scotland in the same sentence, unless separated by "is never"
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:54] <eroomde> sellings kits.... knight rider
[21:54] <eroomde> kit
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:54] <S_Mark> Haha
[21:54] <eroomde> it was a clever pun you see
[21:55] <arko> free david action figure
[21:55] <S_Mark> Yeah I was suprised too, Edinburgh
[21:55] <Upu> oh I'll go back to not following the conversation
[21:55] <eroomde> especially funny now i've had to explain it
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> actually Kitt is a german word
[21:55] <fsphil> I was just south of glasgow on sunday, the weather was amazing
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> it means that paste you use to like glue the sides of windows shut
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah something like mastic
[21:55] <S_Mark> Yeah was the best weekend weather wise for ages
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> Putty seems to be the english word
[21:56] <fsphil> I have an old game called Putty
[21:59] <nigelvh> Putty is an excellent SSH client.
[21:59] <eroomde> yes
[21:59] <eroomde> i bought the guy who wrote it a drink
[21:59] <nigelvh> Good job
[21:59] <eroomde> he's a cambridge geek
[21:59] <nigelvh> He deserves it.
[22:00] <gonzo_> Surface Sea Height
[22:00] <nigelvh> Though, these days I run on Macs most of the time, so I just use the standard terminal.
[22:00] <eroomde> a great service to the world anyway
[22:00] <gonzo_> and to the sea
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[22:04] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[22:10] marcosscriven (~marcosscr@cpc14-slam6-2-0-cust507.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
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[22:18] <chrisstubbs> I'm off, laters all!
[22:19] <LeoBodnar> Good night!
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[23:52] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[00:00] --- Tue Jun 11 2013