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[02:23] <KF7FER> So is it really that common for people flying APRS to want to use more than say 500mW?
[02:23] <KF7FER> I've had it suggested to me that some people have found that 1-2W were needed for reliability
[02:23] <KF7FER> (in tracking, I assume)
[02:35] <KF7FER> BTW OH7LZB... on lunch today I tried to access http://he.fi/doc/aprs-base91-comment-telemetry.txt and it's blocked at my work! Luckily there was a copy archived at www.tapr.org
[03:07] <maxell> APRS on a HAB in the UK?
[03:08] <KF7FER> sorry no, I'm 'merican!
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[03:58] Action: arko high fives KF7FER as a bald eagle flys overhead
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[04:06] <KF7FER> sorry arko, I'm a bit slow
[04:07] <arko> haha
[04:16] <KF7FER> I'm just a bit embarassed to hear people say they need so much power... at 300mW and 50k+ I almost crossed the state of Washington into Canada... and I need more power?
[04:19] <KF7FER> 50k+ feet
[04:25] <heathkid> wow... I've made over 1k miles per watt (CW) tuning up my rain gutters and NO WAY line of sight!
[04:26] <heathkid> eh... and accidently did about 600 miles on CW before I realized I hadn't switched over from my dummy load
[04:26] <heathkid> yes... coax is lossy
[04:26] <heathkid> = radiates
[04:27] <arko> 300mW is more than enough
[04:27] <heathkid> and that was with about 400mW
[04:27] <heathkid> exactly
[04:27] <heathkid> 300mW at altitude is *powerful*
[04:28] <heathkid> and by altitude I mean more than 100 ft. above ground level
[04:28] <heathkid> at burst... heh...
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[04:29] <heathkid> I'd really be surprised if 1mW at 100k ft. wouldn't be enough and challenge myself to that task! :)
[04:29] <heathkid> burst... TX at 1mW and see who can receive it
[04:29] <heathkid> the 1mW HAB Challenge
[04:29] <heathkid> not APRS
[04:30] <heathkid> sloooooow
[04:30] <heathkid> but would work
[04:30] <arko> Heh
[04:30] <arko> I once flew a 35W hab
[04:30] <arko> That's right. I wanted aliens to decode my packets
[04:30] <arko> Too bad it died during flight
[04:30] <arko> Yep
[04:30] <heathkid> anyone up to my challenge?
[04:31] <heathkid> arko: you know those aliens are going to be heading right towards you now.... dang....
[04:31] <heathkid> time to build a bunker
[04:31] <heathkid> seriously? a 35-watt HAB???
[04:32] <heathkid> think it was going to make it to MARS?
[04:32] <arko> Yes
[04:32] <heathkid> oh... doesn't take 35-watts to TX from MARS
[04:32] <heathkid> hehe
[04:32] <heathkid> :)
[04:32] <arko> I was going for deep space
[04:32] <heathkid> no kidding
[04:32] <heathkid> so I put out there the 1mW HAB Challenge!
[04:33] <arko> Haha. It was my first hab and I had not researched
[04:33] <heathkid> use anything you want until burst altitude... decode a 1mW packet
[04:34] <heathkid> must be >than 1k ft.
[04:34] <heathkid> oops
[04:34] <heathkid> >100k ft.
[04:34] <heathkid> 1mW decoded packet from >100k ft.
[04:34] <heathkid> what's the prize?
[04:34] <heathkid> hmmm
[04:35] <heathkid> eh... doesn't matter. bragging rights! :)
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[04:36] <heathkid> should be *easy*... any digital or analog mode accepted...
[04:36] <heathkid> but needs at least Lat/Long/Alt.
[04:36] <heathkid> I guess a "Hello World" would also count (maybe)
[04:37] <heathkid> :)
[04:39] <arko> Heh
[04:39] <arko> Is it even possible?
[04:39] <arko> 1mW is very small
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[04:48] <heathkid> just thinking ahead to the next generation of sub-pico HABs when we'll need spacenear.us and aprs.fi to provide data for an International network of amateur radio telescopes for tracking...
[04:48] <heathkid> :)
[04:49] <heathkid> doesn't that sound like fun?
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[05:47] <G4MYS> good morning all
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[06:03] <x-f> good morning
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[06:09] <x-f> i had a dream last night, that i was doing a launch (my first), and when the payload landed, after some time i saw on the map, that it is moving towards the road while i was still driving to pick it up
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[06:09] <x-f> habber's nightmare, heehee
[06:29] <Upu> KF7FER when I flew APRS it had 300mW with no issues at all
[06:29] <Upu> ping KT5TK
[06:30] <KF7FER> Upu... god I'd hope so. I was embarassed how far 300mW hit at 60k feet
[06:31] <KF7FER> but I just had to ask
[06:31] <Upu> we aren't allowed airborne APRS in the UK
[06:31] <heathkid> Upu, what do you think of a 1mW HAB Challenge?
[06:32] <Upu> but I was transmitting over Germany I was igated by a few UK stations
[06:32] <KF7FER> btw... you use a real whimpy antenna for 70cm. Can I use the same for 300mW on 2m?
[06:32] <Upu> I think so but I used a separate slim jim made from some twin core feeder
[06:33] <Upu> err sure heathkid not sure why you'd want too ?
[06:33] <heathkid> for the challenge of it
[06:33] <heathkid> why not push things a bit
[06:34] <heathkid> I've been a ham most of my life... but enjoy QRP (<5W) and QRPp (<1W) more than blasting out 1500+ watts...
[06:35] <heathkid> 1mW is like the holy grail for a DX
[06:35] <heathkid> and we can do it
[06:35] <heathkid> we have *altitude*
[06:36] <heathkid> I can't exactly put up a 100k ft. tower in my back yard. :)
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[06:45] <KF7FER> So Upu... I wanted to put my MAX-7 on a good test platform and it looks like I'm going to use https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8240668/images/bobsYourUncle.png
[06:46] <KF7FER> sorry but your breakout didn't expose the battery backup and I NEED to test that
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[06:46] <KF7FER> did I do ok?
[06:47] <Upu> oh should have asked I have one just like that I can send made up
[06:47] <Upu> oh doesn't use the chip uses the Saratel
[06:48] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=56
[06:48] <Upu> but sure looks fine
[06:48] <KF7FER> well I see I didn't rate ;-)
[06:48] <KF7FER> us 'mericans ;-)
[06:48] <Upu> you're welcome to one of those PCB's
[06:48] <Upu> lol
[06:48] <KF7FER> ok. as long as it will work that's what matters
[06:50] <KF7FER> we're not all about the high power here in the states :-)
[06:51] <Upu> well we are only jealous becase we can't
[06:51] <KF7FER> though I wonder sometimes
[06:51] <KF7FER> and at the same time... so impressive what you can do with what you have... amazing
[06:51] <Upu> I do think it forces more innovation
[06:52] <KF7FER> I hate to see restrictions but love to see new things
[06:53] <KF7FER> I see you track payloads with 30mW and hear "experienced" people here tell me that 1-2W is required
[06:54] <KF7FER> of course you guys did lose the war ;-)
[06:54] <KF7FER> and what did the romans do for us?
[06:55] <Upu> lol
[06:56] <KF7FER> sorry it's Friday night and there are some good local microbrews available in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest
[06:56] <KF7FER> it's not all cowboys and indians here... after all, it's Friday :-
[06:57] <KF7FER> sorry :-)
[06:57] <eroomde> morn
[06:57] <KF7FER> hey
[06:57] <eroomde> the microbrew scene is a super wonderful thing
[06:58] <KF7FER> well Ben F. did say that beer is proof that god love man. And I think the Microbrew is a natural extension of that love...
[06:59] <KF7FER> love=loves
[06:59] <eroomde> god loves small men
[06:59] <KF7FER> small? sucks to be a fat boy like me eh? boy=50yo
[07:00] <Upu> boy at heart I suspect Brad
[07:00] <eroomde> (micro)brew
[07:00] <KF7FER> ah... I might be dumb but I'm not stupid
[07:00] <KF7FER> times passes so quickly
[07:01] <KF7FER> but Upu is too kind :-)
[07:01] <eroomde> so i hear
[07:04] <KF7FER> well have a good evening gents. It's past the hour that I... well, do something I guess. Or can no longer ignore the screaming of those family members in need. Or is that the call for more beer? I can never tell
[07:04] <Upu> have fun
[07:07] <eroomde> Upu: are you darn sarf?
[07:07] <Upu> no still ill
[07:07] <Upu> had to cancel
[07:07] <eroomde> trottocks
[07:08] <Upu> yup
[07:08] <eroomde> this is got you properly
[07:08] <eroomde> has*
[07:08] <Upu> campylobacter apparently
[07:08] <Upu> yay
[07:09] <eroomde> nice word at least
[07:09] <daveake> needs to camp somewhere else
[07:09] <Upu> I'd rather not have made its acquaintance
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[07:11] <eroomde> it's become self aware
[07:13] <Upu> This is nuts :
[07:13] <number10> is that a tentetive hypothesis
[07:13] <Upu> http://www.ebuyer.com/430446-proliant-microserver-turion-2-2-2gb-250gb-nhpl-sata-lff-in-704941-421?utm_source=b2c_weekend&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=b2c_weekend
[07:13] <Upu> £109
[07:14] <eroomde> hmm nice
[07:14] <eroomde> how many hdds can it hold?
[07:14] <Upu> 4
[07:15] <eroomde> nice
[07:15] <eroomde> we need suvh a thing at work
[07:16] <daveake> I have one of those (or poss an earlier model) here mainly being a NAS
[07:16] <eroomde> like it?
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[07:16] <daveake> yup
[07:16] <eroomde> jcoxon: !
[07:16] <eroomde> r u back?
[07:16] <daveake> Quiet, reliable
[07:17] <daveake> Easy to put the HDs in
[07:17] <Upu> for a proper business I'd recommend a proper server
[07:17] <eroomde> does it come with an OS?
[07:17] <Upu> no
[07:17] <Upu> you can stick Windows Foundation on there
[07:17] <Upu> which is £100 or something
[07:17] <Upu> 15 users
[07:17] <eroomde> ...
[07:17] <Upu> or Linux
[07:17] <eroomde> :)
[07:18] <daveake> Linux works well
[07:18] <jcoxon> eroomde, yup
[07:18] <jcoxon> i am abck
[07:18] <Upu> We put Windows on there and 3CX and they make great 50 user VOIP phone systems with clal recording
[07:18] <jcoxon> back*
[07:18] <Upu> morning jcoxon
[07:19] <eroomde> toast and coffee time
[07:20] <Upu> radim_OM2AMR's STS-4 is up
[07:20] <jcoxon> eroomde, hows tricks?
[07:20] <Upu> thats a very "tight" deviation when its on the ground
[07:20] <Upu> ping radim_OM2AMR is this a MAX7C ?
[07:21] <radim_OM2AMR> Upu MAX6 again
[07:21] <Upu> what mode is it in ?
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[07:23] <eroomde> jcoxon: they are good
[07:23] <eroomde> lots of good nerding recently
[07:23] <eroomde> and the weather is nice
[07:23] <eroomde> how was SL?
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[07:24] <Upu> eroomde only went and made a GPS thats returns 1000 points a second at a resolution of 2cms
[07:24] <jcoxon> SL was awesome
[07:24] <jcoxon> but hard work
[07:24] <eroomde> piestany looks beautiful too
[07:24] <jcoxon> managed to get to the beach for 2 days which was cool
[07:25] <eroomde> to return to the theme of looking at the places people launch from
[07:25] <eroomde> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=piestany&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=KNyyUfqfG8iy0QXUxYCwDQ&biw=1200&bih=670&sei=OdyyUcCML-mg0QWj64CQAw
[07:25] <eroomde> Upu: it can't do the 2cm yet!
[07:25] <eroomde> that'll be the dual frequency version
[07:27] <jcoxon> eroomde, http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/sets/72157633790755557/
[07:28] <eroomde> looks like you had a terrible time
[07:28] <jcoxon> hehe, yeah the beach was tough
[07:28] <jcoxon> the hard work was hard to capture...
[07:29] <jcoxon> you in town anytime soon?
[07:30] <eroomde> not this w/e
[07:30] <eroomde> but possibly next
[07:30] <eroomde> was the last two weekends
[07:30] <jcoxon> on nights for the next 2 weekends coming up
[07:30] <eroomde> slept outside one evening because i lost my keys in my own bag
[07:31] <eroomde> it wasn't a good night
[07:31] <jcoxon> oh dear
[07:32] <eroomde> poor you on nights
[07:32] <jcoxon> oh well
[07:32] <jcoxon> off to paris tomorrow for 2 days so can't really complain :-)
[07:33] <jcoxon> will bbl
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[07:34] <eroomde> well at least he's not bored :)
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[07:45] <relz> Hi all
[07:45] <eroomde> morning relz
[07:47] <arko> Duuude
[07:48] <arko> Gf got back from denver
[07:48] <arko> Bought me a tesla tshirt
[07:48] <arko> From the store
[07:48] <eroomde> i misread that (not coffee yet) as 'GF got dengue fever'
[07:48] <eroomde> which would be unfortunate
[07:48] <arko> Woah
[07:48] <Upu> is that a good thing or a joke Arko ? :)
[07:48] <arko> Haha
[07:49] <arko> Upu its epic
[07:49] <Upu> Tesla as in the electric car with a range of 10-15 miles ?
[07:50] <arko> Yes
[07:50] <arko> And its more than that
[07:50] <Upu> ok just checking
[07:50] <arko> Top gear episode is bs
[07:50] <arko> Scripted
[07:50] <Upu> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/mar/05/top-gear-tesla-jeremy-clarkson
[07:51] <Upu> well until they sort batteries out electric cars are fairly pointless
[07:51] <Upu> even if you do tart them up
[07:51] <Upu> super caps ...
[07:51] <arko> Meh
[07:51] <arko> At least someone is trying
[07:51] <arko> The model s is pretty sweet
[07:51] <Upu> yeah but they need to stop looking at the car part and work on the power part first
[07:52] <arko> Im sure they are
[07:52] <Upu> 200 miles at best then an 8 hour recharge
[07:52] <arko> Its the #1 limiting factor
[07:52] <Upu> at best reality way less
[07:52] <Upu> would have taken me 4 days to get to Scotland :)
[07:52] <arko> Well, yeah
[07:52] <arko> Long distance it makes no sense
[07:53] <arko> For a daily drive, it works
[07:53] <arko> I do about 100mi a day
[07:53] <arko> Give or take 20
[07:53] <eroomde> really!?
[07:53] <arko> Yes
[07:53] <eroomde> Murica
[07:53] <Upu> seriously
[07:53] <arko> School is 40mi away
[07:53] <Upu> you'd save money and have a much better time in a Audi RS4
[07:54] <eroomde> i think my commute is a bit long at 25 miles
[07:54] <Upu> and those aren't cheap
[07:54] <arko> Lol
[07:54] <daveake> mine is about 15m
[07:54] <daveake> m = metre
[07:54] <arko> Lol
[07:55] <arko> Our off site office for jpl is only 2 blocks from my home
[07:55] <arko> Its awesome
[07:55] <eroomde> yes that is suseful
[07:55] <eroomde> useful*
[07:55] <arko> Beats driving the 6mi to jpl
[07:55] <Upu> final rant : until they start producing the electricity from clean sources and work out the environmental impact of the battery manufacture / disposal its all a pile of marketing tosh
[07:55] <eroomde> and your friend (whose name I've forgotten) can catch you up with the days events at about 137 decibels
[07:56] <arko> Friend?
[07:56] <eroomde> well you didn;t punch him...
[07:56] <arko> ?
[07:56] <eroomde> the chap in the office next to the motorcycle place
[07:56] <g4fui> STS-4's rate of climb is very low, is it intended to be a floater?
[07:56] <arko> Ohhh
[07:57] <eroomde> am i thinking of the wrong office?
[07:57] <arko> My cousin
[07:57] <arko> Yeah hes nuts
[07:57] <arko> Adhd
[07:57] <arko> Upu: agreed
[07:58] <daveake> I'm imagining Loud Howard in Dilbert
[07:58] <Upu> Stratum 1 NTP Server : http://i.imgur.com/HlCx942.jpg
[07:58] <arko> eroomde: i work in a different office than that
[07:59] <daveake> Breadboard to connect 2 wires??
[07:59] <daveake> LL would be proud :)
[08:00] <eroomde> ah righty
[08:00] <eroomde> you have a hackerspace, a work space, and a project space
[08:00] <eroomde> that's awesome
[08:01] <arko> Yes
[08:01] <arko> And home
[08:01] <arko> Im not at often
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[08:02] <eroomde> why have you a UK phoen number?
[08:02] <arko> For kicks
[08:02] <arko> No one calls though
[08:03] <eroomde> lol
[08:03] <eroomde> you might get calls from a robot about payment protection insurance
[08:03] <arko> Lol
[08:03] <arko> Leave me funny voicemail
[08:03] <Upu> "huh huh huh huh I'm doing it now" *CLICK*
[08:03] <arko> Durrrrrr
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[08:04] <arko> Now to get an antarctic number
[08:04] <eroomde> ffs weather
[08:04] <Upu> it is not nice there ?
[08:04] <eroomde> it's going back to be dull
[08:04] <arko> All my friends get charge $6/min
[08:04] <daveake> And "Is that Mr Arko? We've been told that someone at your address may have had a car accident in the last millenia"
[08:05] <daveake> My usual response is something like "F off you lying scum"
[08:05] <arko> Or you can be the "FAA" calling me after i had the phone number visible during my talk
[08:05] <fsphil> I've been very very lucky, not got those calls yet
[08:06] <arko> That was a fun prank someone played
[08:06] <fsphil> but Sky are phoning my mobile at least 4 times a week atm
[08:06] <Upu> My parents get a phone call at 12.30 every day
[08:06] <Upu> without fail
[08:06] <daveake> Did you have sky and dump them? That goes on for 18 months
[08:06] <fsphil> daveake: yep
[08:06] <arko> You cant call the tele comp and have it bkocked,
[08:06] <fsphil> but weirdly they didn't have my mobile number
[08:06] <daveake> me too
[08:06] <arko> Blocked?
[08:07] <daveake> They called home not mobile
[08:07] <daveake> They seemed to think that their special deal was better than having 100+ channels for free
[08:08] <fsphil> after stargate ended, there wasn't anything worth the subscription
[08:09] <daveake> I dumped them after realising the only thing I watched on Sky was The Simpsons
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[08:09] <daveake> Oh and Frasier
[08:09] <cn8dn> hello please lien balon latex
[08:09] <daveake> Good as they are still not work £££
[08:09] <fsphil> frasier was a good show
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[08:26] <cn8dn> please lien balon latex
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[08:31] <eroomde> cn8dn: that's not emnglish that we can understand
[08:31] <eroomde> english*
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[08:49] <cn8dn> link latex balloon
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[08:53] <cn8dn> eroomde,link latex balloon
[08:54] <cn8dn> th
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[08:57] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning :)
[08:58] <ibanezmatt13> I've had a go at putting functions into my program: https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5732488 Not sure if it's right though so I'm gonna try it out later.
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[09:05] <eroomde> cn8dn: http://randomaerospace.com/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html
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[09:07] <cn8dn> eroomde: payload max 300gr helium 1M3
[09:09] <g0hww> morning. i have fldigi-hab talking to my AOR8600mk2 via hamlib. should fldigi-hab actually tune the radio to the selected flight/payload's freq or is that a manual process?
[09:09] <number10> manual
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[09:09] <g0hww> ah. ok
[09:10] <DanielRichman> Upu: nice NTP Server :-)
[09:10] <Upu> cheers DanielRichman
[09:10] <Upu> thanks for the idea :)
[09:10] <g0hww> its just that i can't control the rx manually while CAT is running, so i can't flip between the two payload freqs
[09:10] <cuddykid> morning :)
[09:10] <jonsowman> morning all
[09:11] <cuddykid> been thinking (never a good sign!) - has anyone used the wifi go pro remote before to set the go pros running whilst inside payload?
[09:12] <jonsowman> we haven't yet, but plan to next time we fly one
[09:12] <Upu> buy me a GoPro with it on and happy to test it for you
[09:12] <cuddykid> wondering if it degrades the battery life though?
[09:12] <cuddykid> ha
[09:12] <cuddykid> I'm guessing wifi then remains on throughout the flight on go pros - which wouldn't be a good thing
[09:13] <g0hww> ah. actually, i can if i increase the hamlib write delay, i have just enough time to force the rx out of remote control mode and toggle the vfos before the next serial traffic forces it back into remote mode
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[09:19] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[09:19] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk - Launches 08/06/13: STS-4 ~0700UTC from Borovce, Slovakia; ANU/NANU ~1200ISH from Churchill, Cambridge
[09:19] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
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[09:24] <eroomde> if you mean that your payload is 300g and you can only use 1m^3 of helium, then i would get a 300g or 500g balloon
[09:24] <eroomde> probably 500g
[09:25] <eroomde> 1m^3 of helium has a lift of about 1kg. 500g balloon + 300g payload = 800g, so you will have 200g of lift left over. which is good.
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[09:33] <cuddykid> should be interesting with the 2000g balloon tomorrow..
[09:33] <cuddykid> probably end up landing on the brecons
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[09:37] <SpeedEvil> What is the maximum altitude on the 100's?
[09:39] <eroomde> put a beacon on it
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[09:47] <jcoxon> looks like kraken has a listener station
[09:47] Nick change: [1]Geoff-G8DHE -> Geoff-G8DHE_
[09:47] <jcoxon> so much more then just habhub's server
[09:49] <daveake> It got the travel bug
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[09:53] <fsphil> I thought that chase car was in the irish sea for a second .. it was covering the isle of man
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[10:31] <g0hww> is ANU/NANU launch imminent now?
[10:31] <fsphil> another hour, 12:30 according to the email
[10:32] Action: g0hww is reminded of Mork and Mindy
[10:32] <maxell> In one hour.
[10:32] <g0hww> ah 1130 UTC
[10:32] <maxell> :-)
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[10:39] <M0TVU> Good morning
[10:40] <fsphil> mornin!
[10:40] <M0TVU> Is anu nanu launching today as space tracker seems to have dates mixed up
[10:40] <M0TVU> Morning fsphil
[10:41] <fsphil> today at 12:30 BST
[10:41] <fsphil> ISH
[10:41] <M0TVU> Two payloads. Which one is best to listen for?
[10:42] <fsphil> they're on the same balloon so either is fine
[10:42] <fsphil> or both if you can :)
[10:42] <Geoff-G8DHE_> :-)
[10:43] <M0TVU> Cool. I'll give the 736 a spin.
[10:43] <M0TVU> I could actually do both I guess
[10:43] <M0TVU> 817 on one and 736 on the laptop
[10:44] <M0TVU> Hmmmm now that's thrown the cat amongst the pigeons. Off to see if I have enough leads....
[10:44] <g6gzh> g0hww: you can type and/or click in the frequency panel in dl-fldigi and you can also enable it to track drift on DL Client->Configure->Enable menu
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[10:46] <g0hww> g6gzh, ok, thanks
[10:46] <Jess--> I'll be tracking whichever comes up best in lincolnshire
[10:46] <fsphil> I'll probably be having lunch
[10:46] <G7UXW> Mornin All Has anyone got a 706 MKIIG working with DL fldigi ???
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[10:47] <fsphil> I did a while back G7UXW, but it wasn't my own radio
[10:47] <fsphil> but it does work
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[10:48] Nick change: [1]Geoff-G8DHE -> Geoff-G8DHE__
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[10:49] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE__ -> Geoff-G8DHE_
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[10:51] <G7UXW> fsphill do you remember any of the config values mine lock up fldigi so cant traco with dopler correctly
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[11:18] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Are we expecting any communications with the ANU/NANU team ?
[11:19] <daveake> You mean Mork & Mindy?
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[11:22] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> Probably daveake ;-)
[11:22] <Babs> Mindy: Why are you building a tower of Cheerioats? Mork: Because it's hard to stack oatmeal.
[11:23] <Babs> I mean, I only ever saw Mork and Mindy on re-runs on UK Gold
[11:23] <Babs> really
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[11:23] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> I've got something called an Off switch, mainly for the TV!
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[11:24] Nick change: [1]Geoff-G8DHE -> Geoff-G8DHE_
[11:24] <daveake> does it work on IRC too?
[11:24] <daveake> seems to :
[11:24] <daveake> :
[11:24] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Only when I'm not expecting it!
[11:25] <Geoff-G8DHE_> WiFi congestion I think
[11:25] <daveake> hmm dodgy keyboard
[11:26] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Oh they are on the map
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[11:30] <Babs> When Kraken2 gets to STS-50 I think we should warn him to stop there
[11:31] <DanielRichman> We're still setting up for the ANU launch - rhaven't started filling yet
[11:32] <Upu> cheers DanielRichman
[11:34] <maxell> nanu sending packets, no gps fix yet
[11:34] <maxell> It now has gps fix
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[11:41] <M3EAV> nobody here?
[11:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> We at=re all here
[11:42] <M3EAV> lol...
[11:42] <GMT> no, there's nobody here, we're all out launching balloons
[11:42] <GMT> (this is a recording)
[11:42] <M3EAV> can't join in today, damn Wimo antenna still not arrived and no UHF antenna backup until it does
[11:42] <daveake> please leave your name and number your custom is important to us
[11:43] <M3EAV> daveake...what number do i press:-)
[11:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> 42
[11:43] <GMT> ... in the meanwhile, if you'd like to discuss your PPI claim, please press '1'
[11:43] <daveake> 4-3-4-0-7-2
[11:44] <G0MJW-PC> Getting ready for the RT.See there is a hackathon in Harwell Dave
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[11:44] <daveake> oh yeah saw that somewhere
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[11:44] <G0MJW-PC> just on my way up there to have a look.
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[11:46] <EI4ESB> Anybody know frequencies and time for todays launch's
[11:46] <M3EAV> ANU 434.072MHz, 50 baud, 450Hz shift, 7N2 NANU 434.248MHz, 50 baud, 450Hz shift, 7N2
[11:46] <daveake> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[11:46] <M3EAV> time.....fifteen minutes into the future
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[11:53] Action: jcoxon is fighting with dl-fldigi to compile on mac os x 10.5.8
[11:53] Action: SpeedEvil puts on the Picard voice.
[11:53] Action: SpeedEvil intones 'make it_so'.
[11:54] <fsphil> use linux jcoxon :)
[11:55] <jcoxon> hehe the irony is that 10.5.8 was the first os i got dl-fldigi working on
[11:55] <jcoxon> back in the day
[11:55] <mfa298> grab boot camp and boot into windows. Make that expensive hardware look like something costing half the price.
[11:56] <jcoxon> fsphil, i've been thinking about our old ISS/Balloon plans
[11:56] <fsphil> aye
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[11:57] <jcoxon> so the UV-3R with the hack can detect a strong signal
[11:58] <jcoxon> we could use this to trigger an avr to decode packet
[11:58] <jcoxon> when the ISS is heard
[11:58] <jcoxon> (as well as transmitting)
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[11:59] <fsphil> makes sense
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[12:00] <DanielRichman> filling commences
[12:00] <jcoxon> the ISS seems to be more reliable these days
[12:01] <fsphil> I've not tuned into it for ages
[12:01] <M0TVU> I keep getting script errors on spacenear.us. IE 8.06. Any ideas?
[12:02] <M0TVU> I can see the boxes on the right like I used to :-(
[12:02] <G0MJW-PC> oooh - its up
[12:02] <G8KNN> DanielRichman> In case you weren't aware NANU hasn't yet got a GPS lock
[12:04] <DanielRichman> M0TVU: do yiu have the content of the error mesaage to hand?
[12:04] <G7UXW> Mike Which one is up ??
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[12:04] <M0TVU> Hang on
[12:05] <G0MJW-PC> NU - it is claiming al altitude of 68m, in Cambridge that's up
[12:05] <daveake> Er, no, that's not up
[12:05] <G7UXW> Its been at 68m for 10 or so mins
[12:06] <M0TVU> A script on this page is causing internet explorer to run slowly. If it continues to run your computer might become unresponsive.
[12:06] <G7UXW> good hovering then
[12:06] <G0MJW-PC> Looks to me like thay are at Churchill. 68m would be in the clouds around there.
[12:06] <maxell> Don't use IE!
[12:06] <M0TVU> Damn right don't use IE
[12:07] <G7UXW> firefox works fine
[12:07] <Jess--> so does Chrome
[12:07] <Jess--> although chrome seems to be turning into a memory hog
[12:08] <G0MJW-PC> Ah - no lock then?
[12:09] <M0TVU> off to download firefox on this PC
[12:09] M0TVU (d9290680@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Quit: Page closed
[12:09] <daveake> ANU is fine; NANU has time but no long/lat yet
[12:09] <G0MJW-PC> Been using Opera on my mobile - much better - but stick with the Classic version.
[12:10] Nick change: Upu -> Upu_M0UPU
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[12:11] <G7UXW> Taking a close at the google map ist being walked around Churchill collage
[12:11] Nick change: Slartibartfast_ -> Guest15981
[12:11] alf2 (~androirc@dab-hlw1-h-1-5.dab.02.net) joined #highaltitude.
[12:11] <maxell> DanielRichman: filling the balloon is going OK?
[12:11] Guest15981 (02671a89@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Client Quit
[12:12] Nick change: daveake -> daveake_M6RPI
[12:12] jdtanner (5696739e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[12:13] <jdtanner> Aternoon all.
[12:13] <G0MJW-PC> Off to the Hackathon. Back later.
[12:14] <Jess--> I didnt think you had a ham license Daveake
[12:14] <Jess--> if it's new congrats on the new callsign
[12:15] <nommo> Boooo! I'm getting a big pulse of interference every 5 secs all accross 434 - any ideas what it might be? I doubt I'll get a decode today :(
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[12:15] <g0hww> i get a fair bit of intermod around here. i have to back the gain off on my preamp and usrp a bit
[12:16] Ugi (5773518e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[12:16] <nommo> usrp?
[12:17] M0TVU (d9290680@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[12:17] <g0hww> i'm looking at 500kHz of spectrum so i can see both signals
[12:17] <Ugi> Hi Guys - did ANU go up?
[12:17] <daveake_M6RPI> Waiting
[12:17] <M0TVU> That's MUCH better. Don't know why I never installed fire fox on this PC
[12:17] <g0hww> but i'm (hopefully) decoding one of them with the aor8600mk2 and fldigi
[12:17] <Upu_M0UPU> they were filling it a short while ago
[12:17] <Upu_M0UPU> so won't be too long
[12:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Waiting on all flights
[12:18] <Ugi> Fab - hoping to try my new (old radio) if antenna permits
[12:18] <g0hww> actually i lied. i'm looking at 250kHz
[12:19] <maxell> g0hww: i'm looking at more then 2 mhz of spectrum :P
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[12:19] <nommo> hopefully I'll be able to juggle the gain right after launch
[12:20] <M0TVU> A bit off topic but wonder if anyone can help me. I have a load of PCB's here which look like they are all part of a 13cm ATV station. Does anyone this they might be usful for balloon flight or should I just stick them on ebay?
[12:20] <g0hww> maxell, i can do up to 8MHz but it is more noisy
[12:21] <maxell> intresting
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[12:21] <maxell> I do not notice that behaviour with rtl-sdr
[12:21] <g0hww> the noise floor should change with sample rate
[12:21] number10_M0Mdb (1f6e369a@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[12:22] <g0hww> or is that the number of FFT bins. perhaps i'm confused
[12:23] <maxell> g0hww: ok, wow. it might even be true
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[12:24] ibanezmatt13 (~ibanezmat@host31-52-183-130.range31-52.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[12:24] <ibanezmatt13> Good Afternoon :)
[12:24] <Phil_M0DNY> M0TVU: You could try it, but you'll be limited to 10mW output, so I wouldn't expect a great deal of range.
[12:25] Fishy (50b10a7c@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[12:25] <ibanezmatt13> I've just tried to run this code https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5732488 and I got an error saying that the variable counter was referenced before assignment. The variable is first defined at the start of the program but I reference it within a function. Is it something to do with it not being local to that function. It's in the read_gps() function
[12:25] <number10_M0Mdb> balloon filled wil launch soon - cant get lock on NANU not going to open it up to reboot
[12:26] Nick change: number10_M0Mdb -> number10_M0MDB
[12:26] <maxell> number10_M0MDB: no NANU tracker with the balloon?
[12:26] <M0TVU> Thanks Phil_M0DNY - it looks like its somethig to mess around with anyway.
[12:28] <Phil_M0DNY> M0TVU: I'd be interesting in giving receiving from nearby the launch site a go, and I'm sure other ATVers would listen out for it as well!
[12:29] <maxell> Could you take with with a HAB, what about transmitting wattage
[12:29] Relz (5ea86fda@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[12:30] <M0TVU> I dunno. It just seemed too useful to not use for something. I have never done any ATV but I know a guy locally that does a bit. I'll ask his advicce
[12:30] <M0TVU> Maybe I could get someting up and running for a launch site broadcast :-)
[12:30] <maxell> :P
[12:30] <GW8RAK> You can only use ATV in flight at licence free powers.
[12:31] <Phil_M0DNY> GW8RAK: Yep, hence 10mw.
[12:31] <Phil_M0DNY> M0TVU: That would work.. especially for launch sites without 3G.
[12:32] <Phil_M0DNY> Just TX into the local repeater and we can all watch it's online stream.
[12:32] <maxell> :D
[12:32] <maxell> Sell it as a DIY kit
[12:32] <maxell> ???
[12:32] <maxell> profit
[12:32] <g0hww> has anyone tried balloon scatter?
[12:33] <Phil_M0DNY> g0hww: hehe, the US government has.
[12:33] <M0TVU> lol
[12:33] <Phil_M0DNY> With big metallised balloons.
[12:33] <Phil_M0DNY> Doubt latex would reflect much though.
[12:34] <M0TVU> Well time to start reading up on ATV. Don't you just love this ham radio malarky ...:-)
[12:34] <g0hww> yeah, i heard someone figured out how to form a parabolic dish from the inside of one half of a balloon
[12:34] <schoppenhauer> is anybody here who can give some suggestions for radio hardware to use in germany (that is, obeying german laws - the wiki only speaks about the UK law)
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[12:35] <cn8dn> please ebay usb srd link ?*
[12:35] <Phil_M0DNY> schoppenhauer: THere's a bit on the legal side of the ballooning here: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:legalgermany?s[]=deutsch
[12:36] <maxell> cn8dn: any R820T tuner will do
[12:36] <Phil_M0DNY> Radio wise: You can use airborne APRS with a ham radio license, or the 434MHz UK RTTY system.
[12:37] radim_OM2AMR (~radimmuti@adsl-dyn107.91-127-85.t-com.sk) joined #highaltitude.
[12:37] <maxell> cn8dn: RTL2832 and R820T are useful keywords.
[12:37] <maxell> You'll also going to need a good antenna for the 70cm band.
[12:37] <daveake_M6RPI> STS-4 has updated - about to be recovered I guess
[12:37] <cn8dn> maxell: thank you
[12:38] <schoppenhauer> Phil_M0DNY: thx, but this is only about the balloon itself, not about the allowed frequencies. i can try to find it somewhere else (and then maybe putting a link into the wiki of course), but if somebody already knows this, it would be easier.
[12:38] <Phil_M0DNY> schoppenhauer: You can use airborne APRS with a ham radio license, or the 434MHz UK RTTY system.
[12:38] <maxell> cn8dn: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?LH_BIN=1&_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=RTL2832&LH_PrefLoc=2
[12:38] <maxell> no problem
[12:38] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-136-118-55.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[12:38] <G0MJW-Phone> FCD Pro plus. Best choice
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[12:39] <g4fui> G0MJW-Phone - I agree with that . . .
[12:39] <maxell> G0MJW-Phone: http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-DVB-T-RTL-SDR-Realtek-RTL2832U-R820T-DVB-T-Tuner-Receiver-/290923526279
[12:39] <maxell> $11 best hack ever...
[12:40] <mfa298> maxell: FCD Pro Plus is a lot more sensitive than the RTL devices.
[12:40] <G0MJW-Phone> TV sticks. Good but limited.
[12:41] <radim_OM2AMR> hello, STS-4 will fly again. The first attemt was terminated by B737 flying 300m under our balloon
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> Eeek.
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> It caused it to burst?
[12:41] <fsphil> what SpeedEvil said
[12:41] <Upu_M0UPU> PICS ?
[12:41] <g4fui> FCD P+ has built in filters which make it very good for the 432MHz band
[12:42] <GW8RAK> Does anyone know the Maidenhead locator for the launch site please?
[12:42] <G0MJW-Phone> What is STS4's payload?
[12:42] <maxell> mfa298: you think it's worth 20 times as much?
[12:42] <G0MJW-Phone> JO02
[12:43] <mfa298> maxell: definetly.
[12:44] <G0MJW-Phone> Bf
[12:44] <maxell> mfa298: the lower freqencies are very tempting
[12:44] <mfa298> there are plenty of flights that the FCD Pro+ has recieved that the RTL doesn't even hear
[12:44] <mfa298> plus having all of HF is food
[12:44] <mfa298> s/food/good/
[12:44] <G0MJW-Phone> JO02BF
[12:44] <GW8RAK> Thanks G0MJW-Phone
[12:44] <GW8RAK> Going to try the big beam
[12:45] <maxell> but we (local hackerspace) use a dedicated tuner for HABs.
[12:45] <maxell> I do not have the space for a good antenna for habs at home
[12:45] <maxell> so I would not like to buy two FCD+s :P
[12:46] <g4fui> I get pretty decent results with my vertical colinear
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[12:46] <radim_OM2AMR> SpeedEvil, yep, turbulence probably
[12:46] <mfa298> RTL + habamp will have similar filtering to the FCD Pro+ and might match it for performance.
[12:46] <Upu_M0UPU> not a chance
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[12:47] <Phil_M0DNY> Pro+ outperforms habamp+rtlsdr by a long way.
[12:47] <Phil_M0DNY> I've found..
[12:48] <maxell> old ham saying: $10 transmitter, $100 antenna.
[12:48] <Phil_M0DNY> However if you had the habamp at the antenna end of 20m of coax, that's a different story.
[12:48] <mfa298> I don't (yet) have a hab amp to do the comparison. But I know the FCD Pro+ does as well as a good reciever and the rtl doesn't
[12:49] <GW8RAK> In practice £2k rig + bit of wire
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[12:49] <bertrik> not all rtlsdrs are created equal, I think it depends on the tuner it's used with
[12:49] <g0hww> GW8RAK, a small bit of wire :(
[12:49] <G0MJW-Phone> Nope. £150 rx, £1000 antenna.
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[12:50] <mfa298> decent receiver and knowing how antennas work (you can do well with a cheap bit of wire if you know how)
[12:50] <G0MJW-Phone> It not the antenna, its the skyhook
[12:50] <mfa298> most of my HAB reception is £150 rx and £5 antenna (and that works to the horizon baring local obstructions)
[12:51] <G0MJW-Phone> Hight is might at UHF
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[12:52] <mfa298> if you're spending on a decent antenna you also need to spend on the coax. It's pointless having 20dB of gain if theres -40dB in the coax
[12:52] <g4fui> 12foot scaffold pole on my gable end with the colinear at the top, an elevated location and horizon to horizon views all round (more or less) = HAB joy!
[12:53] <g4fui> + 12m of RG213
[12:53] <maxell> Good antenna location, good antenna, good coax, nice habamp. and a $11 tuner rtlsdr. It just works"
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[12:53] <G0MJW-Phone> Bet that location cost more than £10
[12:53] <GMT> low-loss phone-network coax used here ... cost me a crate of beer; collinear at 7 m
[12:53] <GW8RAK> 240m asl helps here :)
[12:54] <daveake_M6RPI> up
[12:54] <g4fui> 170m here but a takeoff to die for to the SE
[12:54] <DanielRichman> laumch
[12:54] <Upu_M0UPU> dial ?
[12:54] <maxell> 240 meters, 170 meters. damn :P
[12:54] <DanielRichman> *launched
[12:54] <G0MJW-Phone> what antenna? I use 18 ele rhcp to overcome the fading.
[12:55] <GW8RAK> Only got clear take off for perhaps 300 degrees of the 360
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[12:55] <maxell> DanielRichman: nice!
[12:55] <g0hww> hmm. i might be seeing a signal
[12:56] <g0hww> yep
[12:56] <Upu_M0UPU> dial ?
[12:56] <g0hww> $$ANU,502,12:510,5".0037h2< ]LwoYq A,430
[12:56] <maxell> <ANU 434.072MHz, 50 baud, 450Hz shift, 7N2>
[12:56] <g4fui> takeoff is poor here N to E due to the highest point in the Pennines being in the way, but the rest is pretty decent, especially E to S
[12:56] <G8KNN> 434.072
[12:56] <g0hww> 434071
[12:56] <Upu_M0UPU> I know what its meant to be :)
[12:56] <g0hww> +1627
[12:57] <Upu_M0UPU> reality rarely matches spacenear.us :)
[12:57] <schoppenhauer> ok, as far as I see, one has to pass a test, and then get an amateur license.
[12:57] <GW8RAK> Want to quantify the horizontal beam against the vertical colinear today
[12:57] <maxell> G6GZH, G8KNN and M0MDB decoes already
[12:57] <g0hww> green decode
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[12:57] <g6gzh> shift is more like 470 on .072
[12:58] <schoppenhauer> at least according to http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cln_1931/DE/Sachgebiete/Telekommunikation/Unternehmen_Institutionen/Frequenzen/SpezielleAnwendungen/Amateurfunk/amateurfunk_node.html;jsessionid=265FB6A776337EAADD7083BAC84A6B51
[12:58] <g0hww> has it launched yet?
[12:58] <Upu_M0UPU> yes
[12:58] <iain_G4SGX> Good strongs sigs this one for me
[12:59] <maxell> g0hww: 1645 meters :P
[13:00] <g0hww> yeah just noticed
[13:00] <maxell> oh noes QRM
[13:00] <maxell> shitshitshit
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[13:01] <g0hww> shift of 470 better for me
[13:02] <G7UXW> how do I change shift in DL- fidigi
[13:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> Right click RTTY in left corner
[13:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> change to custom and set it
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[13:03] <Upu_M0UPU> NANU also stron
[13:03] <Upu_M0UPU> but no GPS
[13:03] <maxell> :P
[13:03] <G7UXW> coustm shift not availble
[13:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> Select custom from main shift settings
[13:04] <Upu_M0UPU> ping radim_OM2AMR did you have a camera on board ?
[13:04] <radim_OM2AMR> Upu_M0UPU, no just light pico there
[13:05] <Upu_M0UPU> oh shame that would have been an impressive pic :/
[13:05] <g4fui> Does that count as an aviation "near miss"?
[13:05] <radim_OM2AMR> :-) sure :-)
[13:05] <GW8RAK> ibanezmatt13 - are you going to listen out for this one?
[13:06] <radim_OM2AMR> we found whole 100g balloon with payload
[13:07] <GW8RAK> on .072. Where is the audio signal centred?
[13:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> 1khz
[13:08] <GW8RAK> ty
[13:08] <number10_M0MDB> maxell: the NANU tracker isnt getting lock
[13:08] <GMT> you need to tune up and down in small increments until you get the two yellow lines on the waterfall somewhere in the middle
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[13:08] <maxell> number10_M0MDB: ai ai :(
[13:08] <maxell> gps antenna broke off?
[13:08] <number10_M0MDB> i dont know if the chipantenna cracked when I put it in the payload
[13:09] <G7UXW> ok got it had dumb head on for a min or so
[13:10] M0TVU (d9290680@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Quit: Page closed
[13:10] <ibanezmatt13> GW8RAK, I'll have a go :)
[13:10] <GW8RAK> I'll give you a call when it's strong enough here
[13:11] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks, I can't even load the tracking website up; it keeps freezing
[13:12] <number10_M0MDB> Upu_M0UPU: hi, what is the altitude of the prediction
[13:12] <maxell> inboud signal for all dutchies
[13:13] <maxell> wake up dutch mill!
[13:13] <Upu_M0UPU> 30km
[13:13] <Upu_M0UPU> what do you want it set too ?
[13:13] <number10_M0MDB> 34k please
[13:13] <PD4KDZ_klaas> good afternoon what's ANU's frequency..
[13:14] <number10_M0MDB> 434.071
[13:14] <maxell> strong fading
[13:14] <PD4KDZ_klaas> dutch-mill -> pd4kdz now ;-)
[13:14] <Upu_M0UPU> done
[13:14] <maxell> good decode plz
[13:14] <Upu_M0UPU> whats up with NANU ? Looks like GPS is dead - TXing fine
[13:15] <number10_M0MDB> yes, Upu_M0UPU i dont know if i broke the chip antenna
[13:15] <Upu_M0UPU> I'll stick on it just in case
[13:15] <number10_M0MDB> it had time but wouldnt get lock then i rebooted and now no time
[13:15] <number10_M0MDB> cheers
[13:16] <g0hww> http://www.g0hww.net/2013/06/anunanu.html
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[13:17] <Upu_M0UPU> looks good g0hww
[13:18] <PD4KDZ_klaas> weak signal ... getting stronger
[13:19] <maxell> Hmm, $$ANU,608.,I9EY]QQ1a9EEQIb7818,8,45.0,
[13:19] <g4fui> Just emerging from the noise here in Penrith
[13:20] <ibanezmatt13> GW8RAK, no sign yet?
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[13:21] <GW8RAK> I think it is just emerging from the noise. Not much here until about 8500m
[13:21] <maxell> It keeps breaking after the time stamp here
[13:21] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok. I'm set up but I'm not sure if my setup is capable of tracking it
[13:22] <ibanezmatt13> GW8RAK, it's over 8500 now
[13:22] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: the only way to find out is try
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[13:22] <Ugi> Hey! My first decodes!
[13:22] <Upu_M0UPU> congrats :)
[13:22] <Ugi> Not quite getting to checksum accuracy but getting data!
[13:23] <mfa298> well done Ugi
[13:23] <M0TVU> Can I just check ANU - 50 baud 7n2?
[13:23] <Upu_M0UPU> keep going
[13:23] <GW8RAK> Yes, but it's not guaranteed to appear at a particular altitude. Propogation still plays it's part
[13:23] <Upu_M0UPU> yep M0TVU
[13:23] <Upu_M0UPU> autoconfig works
[13:23] <GW8RAK> Propa
[13:23] <M0TVU> I can here it but no meaningful decodes yet.
[13:24] <GW8RAK> But I am getting a strange CW like signal, but with a carrier
[13:24] <PD4KDZ_klaas> cq costyn
[13:24] <M0TVU> Aha - RTTYR !
[13:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/ANU_NANU-20130608/
[13:25] <ibanezmatt13> what frequency are you on?
[13:26] <GW8RAK> 434.072 USB
[13:26] <M0TVU> 434.072.7
[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> I'm getting on line on that
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[13:26] <M0TVU> Always just miss the $anu
[13:27] <M0TVU> Ooh got one
[13:27] <GW8RAK> Getting signal now. Just unplugged the preamp
[13:27] <M0TVU> $NU,645,13:27:09,52.14310,0.11113,9846,9,40.3,0.0,6.17*8342 - Most are like this though :-(
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> So I'm 434.072, and only one line...
[13:27] <Ugi> How d
[13:28] <Ugi> o I know when uploading? This looks good datad:
[13:28] <GW8RAK> lower line is at 1500HZ
[13:28] <Ugi> NU,645,13:27:09,52.14310,0.11113,9844,9,40.3,0.0,6.17*834 NU,646,13:27:22,52.14243,0.11090,9896,9,40.2,0.0,6.20*F892
[13:28] <maxell> M0TVU: here it gets jibberish after the timestamp
[13:28] <maxell> hmm
[13:28] <M0TVU> Here comes a good one
[13:28] <g0hww> try a shift of 475
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[13:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nanu is trying to get out the passband again!
[13:29] <M0TVU> Im 460 shift i'll try 475
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[13:29] <Upu_M0UPU> yeah its drifty
[13:29] <ibanezmatt13> 50 baud 7N2?
[13:29] <g0hww> yep
[13:29] <M0TVU> yes
[13:29] <ibanezmatt13> how about receive filter bandwidth?
[13:29] <g0hww> mine's fixed
[13:30] <GW8RAK> The shift is 470Hz, so as long as the bandwidth is wider, you'll get both lines
[13:30] <g0hww> its so drifty i wouldn't bother
[13:30] <Ugi> Hey, I got "uploaded successfully"! I'm officially online!
[13:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> ibanezmatt13 http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/ANU_NANU-20130608/index.php?ind=1
[13:31] <maxell> g0hww: hmm, uhm. filter is auto. $$ANU,645,13:27-9EEEM1eaQQ1e1QA9M1A9A*8342
[13:31] <maxell> $$ANU,646,13:27:9EEAeA1eaeY1e1A80.0,6.20*F892
[13:31] <maxell> $$ANU,647,13:27:3+9EEA]e1eeQU1e1QA9E120*9807
[13:31] <GW8RAK> We should get a good signal at about 12km ibanezmatt13
[13:31] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, I hope so
[13:32] <g6gzh> It seems to be following the M11 8-)
[13:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> Is it in the middle lane ?
[13:32] <g6gzh> Weaving a bit
[13:32] <Ugi> Drat! I gotta go - kids to taxi! Back later if I can.
[13:32] <ibanezmatt13> GW8RAK, should I still get something at 434.072?
[13:33] <g6gzh> Maybe there's a display at Duxford it wants to be a part of
[13:33] <GW8RAK> It is still very weak. You may hear something if you listen until the signal gets temporarily stronger.
[13:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> ibanezmatt13 ANU is drifting a little high about 434.073 now
[13:33] <GW8RAK> However, the signal is quite constant in strength
[13:34] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: you might find you need to tune +/- 5khz to find it not all recievers report exactly the same frequency
[13:34] <GW8RAK> Just put the big beam on and 21 ele horizontal is not as good as a colinear vertical
[13:34] <ibanezmatt13> I've been deviating around the frequency and still get nothing. On 434.073, it's a very very low noise, not even on waterfall
[13:35] <mfa298> is the antenna indoors or outside ?
[13:35] <maxell> strong signal here now. Decodes still break after the timestam
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[13:35] <ibanezmatt13> outside of my window, facing south east
[13:35] <ibanezmatt13> Not sure if my location has anything to do with it
[13:35] <GMT> what is your locatio ibanezmatt13?
[13:35] <mfa298> if that's with the magmount you probably also want it on something metalic if possible.
[13:36] <GW8RAK> It's getting stronger, soon have first decode
[13:36] <G7UXW> screen full of rubish
[13:36] <g0hww> i think the shift has become narrow, now abt 460
[13:36] <ibanezmatt13> GMT, Wigan
[13:36] <GMT> okay, other side of Pennines
[13:36] <ibanezmatt13> It's on the metal part of my window
[13:36] <ibanezmatt13> GMT yes
[13:36] <maxell> PD4KDZ_klaas: how are you doing? Any decodes yet?
[13:36] <mfa298> that would hopefully work.
[13:36] <ibanezmatt13> GW8RAK, you still on 434.072?
[13:36] <PE2G> First decodes at dx 444 km: http://s23.postimg.org/izanaeljf/Screen911.jpg
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[13:37] <maxell> PE2G: WHY?! how can I not decode this strong signal :S
[13:37] <GW8RAK> .0725 with the audio at 1500hz, so if you are on .73, the audio will be at 1000Hz.
[13:37] <GW8RAK> First decode
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[13:37] <PE2G> maxellSignal is rather weak here yet
[13:37] <ibanezmatt13> at 434.0725 it's at 500hz
[13:38] <bertrik> maxell: squelch setting on dl-fldigi perhaps?
[13:38] <GW8RAK> Our rigs are not calibrated so 500Hz variation is not too bad. Can you see two lines?
[13:38] <ibanezmatt13> GW8RAK, 434.0725 gives me one line at 500 on the waterfall
[13:38] <maxell> http://[2001:610:76a:0:b174:d0d9:6a8a:a850]/ audio stream
[13:39] <ibanezmatt13> still only one line
[13:39] <maxell> PE2G: bertrik: i have decodes all the time but after not on the middle
[13:39] <maxell> $$ANU,701,13:398EaA]1A9EQI]E1EI]26,10,32.8,0.0,6
[13:39] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: if there's only one line on the waterfall that might not be the payload
[13:40] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I'm moving around a bit but can't find anything
[13:40] <GW8RAK> Patience. It is still low and the signal is not even registering on the S meter
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[13:41] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, I'll wait a bit. 434.072 gives one line on waterfall at 1000. So, whn it gets higher on that freq I should get something?
[13:42] <daveake_M6RPI> That one line will definitely be something else, so ignore that.
[13:42] <PE2G> Signal strong here now, with some slow fading: http://s22.postimg.org/gxvcgxjup/Screen912.jpg
[13:42] <g0hww> i'm up to 434.074 now for the low tone, and 450 shift
[13:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> Agree with that
[13:43] <GW8RAK> Also on .074 with low tone at 400
[13:43] <PE2G> 456 Hz Shift here
[13:43] <ibanezmatt13> .074, one line at 1100. Oh dear...
[13:44] <G7UXW> turn off the bloddy rev button just found that out
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[13:44] <ibanezmatt13> rev button off
[13:44] <G7UXW> been sitting like the sort of well you know
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[13:45] <ibanezmatt13> could the one line I have at .074 be the payload; I imagine not...
[13:46] <mfa298> if there's only a single line it's unlikely to be the payload
[13:46] <g0hww> nope, should be two lines waving about a bit
[13:46] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, I'm not sure why I'm not picking it up. Been through all frequencies
[13:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> Is the aerial still that rubber duck on the rig ?
[13:47] <GW8RAK> Although clear here, ibanezmatt13, it is still not showing any signal strength
[13:47] <g0hww> its about S9 with me
[13:47] <GW8RAK> But strength is coming up. If it gets to S3 here, you should be able to hear it with your whip
[13:47] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[13:48] <g0hww> with about 3-5 S points of fading
[13:49] <g0hww> i just noticed NANU's signal
[13:49] <mfa298> if you still fail to hear anything in a bit it could be worth going outside with the radio and see if you can hear it.
[13:49] <g0hww> its a bit weaker
[13:50] <mfa298> the house / window frame could be interfering a bit with reception
[13:50] <ibanezmatt13> Aany better places I could go?
[13:52] <mfa298> if you can get a few meters away from the building on the same side it might help. Or just try a few areas in the garden
[13:52] <ibanezmatt13> does height matter?
[13:52] <PE2G> yes, much!
[13:52] <mfa298> if you can find the payload outside you at least know what frequency its on so you can try again from inside
[13:52] <ibanezmatt13> ok :)
[13:52] <ibanezmatt13> how long roughly do i have left to get it?
[13:53] <mfa298> height generally helps but being away from metal objects might help more (apart from a ground pland for the antenna)
[13:53] <G7UXW> hight is good the higher the better I'm at 200m asl
[13:53] <G7UXW> 706 + white stick collinear here
[13:54] <ibanezmatt13> that one line I had is increasing freq pretty quickly
[13:54] <g6gzh> ibanezmatt13: predicted burst is 16:29 local
[13:54] <mfa298> the main thing you want is a clear line of sight to be balloon. Height above ground helps get that when the balloon is at a lower altitude
[13:54] <ibanezmatt13> if i have time, I may go up to the famous Billinge hill
[13:55] <GW8RAK> The signal strength has dropped here as it often does at around 17km, but this does look low
[13:55] <g0hww> some decodes of NANU, but no info, so back to ANU for me
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[13:56] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'm gonna move around, will have to sign out for this. Wont be long
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[13:59] <Laurenceb_> how shit
[13:59] <Laurenceb_> how many receivers
[13:59] <Laurenceb_> we need reverse gps already
[13:59] <GMT> ?
[14:00] <G7UXW> reverse gps ????
[14:01] <Laurenceb_> transmit pseudorandom noise from the balloon
[14:01] <Laurenceb_> correlate on the ground
[14:02] <G7UXW> sorry still dont understand
[14:02] <Laurenceb_> nvm then
[14:02] <PD4KDZ_klaas> maxell back in .. yes alle greens now
[14:03] <G7UXW> NVM ????
[14:03] <G4MYS> ALF RTTYR ok!
[14:03] <iain_G4SGX> There have been some experiments with HF global direction finding to find pirates etc. Uses accurate timing and synch, been accurate within a few miles so far I believe.
[14:04] <GMT> that's been available for years ... UK Govt DF site in Cyprus and Baldock
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[14:04] <GW8RAK> That's better now I've got the preamp in
[14:05] <iain_G4SGX> Yeh but these are amateurs with lots of listening stations.
[14:05] <GW8RAK> I'm wondering if my beam isn't defective. S8 on colinear, but barely audible on beam.
[14:06] <GMT> is yr beam vertical or horizontal?
[14:06] <GW8RAK> Difference between horizontal and vertical should be about 20dB
[14:06] <PD4KDZ_klaas> scare the birds..
[14:06] <GW8RAK> It's horizontal so would expect weaker signal, but not 8 s points
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[14:11] <g0hww> i'm getting a much better decode rate now i've turned down the audio drive level
[14:11] <maxell> PERFECT DECODES
[14:11] <maxell> PE2G: OMG OMG OMG
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[14:11] <maxell> PD4KDZ_klaas: omg omg :D
[14:12] <PD4KDZ_klaas> Yep OMG
[14:12] <maxell> i went from 0,9 megasamples/sec to 0,25 it works \o/
[14:12] <maxell> bertrik: thanks for making me check that setting once again!
[14:12] <g0hww> good news
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[14:13] <maxell> so much win
[14:14] <PE2G> maxell: Congrats!
[14:15] <maxell> Next time I will fiddle with setings I did not knew that needed fiddling
[14:15] <g0hww> is the distance shown in fldigi-ham the slant range or the great circle path length?
[14:15] <g0hww> fldigi-hab, even
[14:16] <GW8RAK> MInes not showing anything in those fields
[14:16] <PD4KDZ_klaas> maxell what program you use #sharp?
[14:16] <gonzo___> what's the story on NANU?
[14:16] <gonzo___> not on the spacenear and sending zero coords
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[14:16] <g6gzh> GW8RAK: I had that until I selected ANU rather than NANU as the payload
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[14:17] <gonzo___> ah ok
[14:17] <maxell> PD4KDZ_klaas: yeah.
[14:17] <g6gzh> gonzo___: NANU has no GPS fix
[14:17] <g0hww> or even dl-fldigi. damnit
[14:17] <g0hww> GW8RAK, mine didn't until i selected the flight and payload
[14:17] <PD4KDZ_klaas> maxell and the preamp?
[14:17] <gonzo___> not seeing it at all on spacenear though. Has the gps never sent a useable location?
[14:18] <gonzo___> ah, soulds like that is the case
[14:18] <gonzo___> anu and nanu the same balloon?
[14:19] <maxell> PD4KDZ_klaas: preamp? hamamp :P
[14:19] <bertrik> ANU looks to be quite warm inside
[14:20] <PD4KDZ_klaas> maxel going to swap to FDC too...
[14:20] <GW8RAK> g0hww, I selected the payload and autoconfigured
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[14:21] <GW8RAK> If all else fails, RTFM. Just found the payload option, not just the callsign. How long have I been doing this?
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[14:22] <g6gzh> I didn't know that affected the boxes until today. It was still uploading OK.
[14:23] <cn8dn> maxell: seeks to file ardunio ntx2 gps finished
[14:23] <maxell> ?
[14:24] <fsphil> ah it's still flying
[14:25] <fsphil> what's with the unusual course?
[14:25] <fsphil> oh n/m, I was looking at the wrong payload
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[14:25] <g6gzh> The chase car seems to be in a pub carpark, that's good planning.
[14:26] <fsphil> lol
[14:26] <maxell> 24 listeners! nice
[14:26] <fsphil> always think ahead
[14:26] <fsphil> I have the signal, but it's weak and fady
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[14:26] <fsphil> normal enough for this low on the horizon
[14:27] <PD4KDZ_klaas> maxell running on SDR now
[14:28] <mfa298> interesting flight path, looks like several different wind directions at different heights
[14:29] <GMT> signal now very broken and weak, and not getting decodes, but is probably at its closest point to me.
[14:29] <maxell> PD4KDZ_klaas: and better? :)
[14:30] <maxell> GMT: too strong or in blind spot :P
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[14:30] <maxell> Unity gain helps if HABS fly above your head.
[14:30] <ibanezmatt13> GW8RAK, went up to the hill, absolutely nothing. I'm really quite annoyed...
[14:31] <fsphil> did you tune around a bit?
[14:31] <PD4KDZ_klaas> nope the ft817 is more sensitive ..
[14:31] <ibanezmatt13> Yea
[14:31] <fsphil> odd
[14:31] <GMT> possibly a blind spot, or maybe some weird atmospherics?
[14:31] <fsphil> should definitly be hearing something
[14:31] <fsphil> unless faulty equipment
[14:31] <ibanezmatt13> It picks up my own tracker perfectly
[14:31] <GMT> ... but its all come back to life again, full decodes
[14:31] <fsphil> just got my first decode
[14:32] <PE2G> ibanezmatt13
[14:32] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[14:32] <EI4ESB> Signal 5/5 with me in Dublin, trying to configure dl-fldigi
[14:32] <ibanezmatt13> what freq should I try
[14:33] <EI4ESB> 434.074
[14:33] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[14:33] <fsphil> EI4ESB: if you have the signal on the waterfall in dl-fldigi, all that remains should be to select ANU from the flight list, ANU from the payload list, and press Auto-configure
[14:33] <ibanezmatt13> just one line :(
[14:33] <ibanezmatt13> still
[14:33] <GW8RAK> ibanezmatt13 - don't know why you could not hear it. I can hear it in my garden using the telescopic whip on the 7100. It's not strong, but it's there
[14:33] <PE2G> ibanezmatt13: what receiver are you using?
[14:34] <ibanezmatt13> Alinco DJX-10
[14:34] <G0MJW-Phone> 817 has two antenna inputs
[14:34] <EI4ESB> No waterfall crazy letters showing in yellow box
[14:34] <GW8RAK> Where you up Billinge hill?
[14:34] <PE2G> ibanezmatt13: Is known as a good one
[14:34] <ibanezmatt13> nah, I got naf all up there
[14:34] <GW8RAK> Were, not where
[14:34] <ibanezmatt13> I get more in my house
[14:34] <Geoff-G8DHE_> ibanezmatt13 When you took it out to the hill the other night did you hear any stations then ?
[14:35] <fsphil> EI4ESB: in USB mode and with good sounding rtty?
[14:35] <ibanezmatt13> nope
[14:35] <iain_G4SGX> burst?
[14:35] <ibanezmatt13> nothing, not even repeaters
[14:35] <GW8RAK> What have you heard on it?
[14:35] <ibanezmatt13> my own RTTY from my tracker 3 ft away
[14:35] <ibanezmatt13> Perfectly
[14:35] <GW8RAK> Try airband around 134MHz AM, they will be right over the top of you
[14:35] <fsphil> signal faded quite a bit here
[14:35] <g0hww> is the rf gain turned down?
[14:36] <g0hww> always worth checking that
[14:36] <GMT> bad signals again for a few sentences, but all okay again, still climbing
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[14:36] <G0MJW-Phone> Erm Alinco? Didnt know thew did ssb radios
[14:36] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, it's got USB
[14:37] <fsphil> it's sounds turbulent up there
[14:37] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> Yes its all mode scanner
[14:37] <g0hww> has it burst?
[14:37] <fsphil> yes
[14:37] <ibanezmatt13> GW8RAK, nothing on 134mhz AM
[14:37] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> It covers broadcast as well doesn't it 88-108MHz do you get th FM stations ?
[14:37] <fsphil> she's coming down
[14:37] <GW8RAK> around 134MHz
[14:37] <GW8RAK> not dead on it
[14:37] <daveake1> number10's made the same mistake I made last flight - going to the expected landing spot instead of waiting for the burst
[14:37] <G0MJW-Phone> Not got am sma has it
[14:37] <ibanezmatt13> I got something then, like a voice
[14:38] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> BNC connector I think on top for a rubber duck
[14:38] <ibanezmatt13> GW8RAK, I'm picking up ATC, air traffic control
[14:39] <fsphil> I seem to hear aircraft on 123.775 a lot
[14:39] <ibanezmatt13> So that works, but USB 434.074 only gives one line on waterfall
[14:39] <GW8RAK> Okay, so we can assume it's working for strong signals.
[14:39] <PE2G> daveake1: my rule of thumb is to always stay behind the balloon.
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[14:39] <GW8RAK> Are you back at school this week or have you finished now?
[14:39] <ibanezmatt13> Back this week for exams only, so not all day every day. This is my last week really
[14:39] <daveake1> PE2G Agreed :)
[14:40] <daveake1> I knew this I just forgot it :)
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[14:40] <GW8RAK> I may be in Bolton late next week, so could test your radio for you if you like
[14:41] <ibanezmatt13> That would be absolutely fantastic
[14:41] <G0MJW-Phone> You just wanted to be there to catch it coming down
[14:41] <PE2G> daveake!: Yeah, you remember it when an early burst happens
[14:41] <fsphil> 10000 HAB points to anyone who catches a payload descending from > 10km :)
[14:41] <GW8RAK> It'll probably be Thursday pm, but won't know till nearer the time.
[14:42] <ibanezmatt13> That would be excellent. Just let me know :) Thanks
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[14:43] <ibanezmatt13> I think I'm just gonna have to give up on this one I think
[14:43] <G0MJW-Phone> Dave nearly landed one on me once. Missed by a mile.
[14:44] <ibanezmatt13> Still 434.074?
[14:45] <g0hww> 434.0744 for the low tone
[14:45] <fsphil> gone here now
[14:45] <daveake1> Usually I aim for number10
[14:45] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: for range testing you could try listening for aprs traffic on 144.800, with some suitable software you should be able to decode it. The challenge is working out who actually sent the packet you recieved.
[14:45] <daveake1> Landed near him 3 times now
[14:45] <G7UXW> yup at 18.000
[14:45] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, yeah I could have a go at that
[14:46] <g0hww> S5 here
[14:46] <G7UXW> $$ANU,1009,14:46:01,52.09878,-0.01520,17241,9,27.8,0.0,5.96*2EC3
[14:46] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: software I've used for aprs is agwpe to decode the data and ui-view32 to plot it, but there might be better options.
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[14:47] <ibanezmatt13> I'll look into that later. thanks :)
[14:47] <ibanezmatt13> Are we descending?
[14:47] <fsphil> yep
[14:47] <G0MJW-Phone> H
[14:47] <daveake1> Not personally
[14:48] Nick change: daveake1 -> daveake
[14:48] <mfa298> probably worth listening to see if you can hear anything on 144.800 (NFM) first before trying to setup software
[14:48] <fsphil> into madness
[14:48] <G7UXW> yup at 15990 ft
[14:48] <G0MJW-Phone> Cambridge is difficult from Bolton.
[14:48] <daveake> got there years ago
[14:48] <mfa298> fsphil: I thought madness had already descended upon this chanel
[14:48] <fsphil> G7UXW: metres
[14:48] <ibanezmatt13> was going to say :)
[14:48] <fsphil> mfa298: good point
[14:48] <G7UXW> ooopppsss sorry
[14:49] <fsphil> feet are for walking, not measuring :)
[14:49] <G7UXW> its only 7 degrees above my horizon
[14:49] <daveake> Yeah, toe the line or you'll be inching towards the door
[14:49] <G0MJW-Phone> A closed mouth gathers no feet
[14:49] <fsphil> we're inching towards metric
[14:50] <fsphil> 7 degrees would be amazing here
[14:50] <daveake> still using imperial but not furlong
[14:50] <fsphil> fur how long?
[14:50] <mfa298> careful you you might be put in chains
[14:51] <fsphil> fur is how some people here pronounce for
[14:51] <daveake> damn I was going to use that one
[14:51] <daveake> I'll get back on my perch
[14:52] <G0MJW-Phone> Can you imagine the Who song? I can see for kilometers? Metric is miles beter for caculations though.
[14:52] <daveake> STS-4 coming down too
[14:52] <fsphil> old units are better for songs yes
[14:53] <fsphil> ahd phrases
[14:53] <cn8dn> ibanezmatt13: have the files thank you for arduino
[14:53] <fsphil> and*
[14:54] <ibanezmatt13> It would probably be good if I could use C before Arduino
[14:55] <fsphil> you can write C stuff on the Pi
[14:55] <ibanezmatt13> I really can't seem to learn C
[14:55] <GMT> I really struggled with C
[14:55] <ibanezmatt13> I'm gonna stick with python for this flight, then I'll start learning it...
[14:55] <fsphil> My zen moment came when I realised just how simple C is, and I was overcomplicating it all along
[14:56] <GMT> I've tried a little Python on my Pi ... early days yet, but is a little weird
[14:56] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: it's probably worth sticking with one language when you're learning.
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/9098879.htm?cmpid=APP003
[14:56] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I'm sticking with python I think :)
[14:57] <GMT> I think that I will persevere with Python, and also a little bit of Java
[14:57] <cn8dn> Looking for Arduino file full gps rtty
[14:57] <mfa298> the bit of C that took me a while to get my head around is pointers, after a while it sudenly clicked and you realise how simple they are
[14:57] <fsphil> yep
[14:57] <fsphil> everything in C is either a number, or a pointer, which is just a number
[14:57] <fsphil> functions are just pointers to code
[14:58] <mfa298> cn8dn: do you mean you're looking for a pre-built tracker. Generally you have to make it yourself and write code for it.
[14:58] <ibanezmatt13> Well I've put functions into my Python code, and it partly works. Apart from the fact that it keeps sending the same packet over and over
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[14:58] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: when I looked at your code earlier I think there's probably better ways of doing it.
[14:58] <ibanezmatt13> almost certainly
[14:59] <ibanezmatt13> i've updated it slightly though, I'll update it npow
[14:59] <ibanezmatt13> now*
[14:59] <mfa298> I think you had two functions that are almost identical (and could probably be a single function)
[14:59] <cn8dn> yes
[14:59] <ibanezmatt13> I just seem to have a problem with variables with functions
[14:59] <cn8dn> le source file
[15:00] <ibanezmatt13> here's where I am now: https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5732488
[15:01] <ibanezmatt13> I get an error at the "while packets != ''" part saying local variable 'packets' referenced before assignment
[15:01] <mfa298> cn8dn: you might find some peoples code on github but you will need to write your own as their code probably won't work in the way you need it to.
[15:01] <fsphil> putting the GPS into flight mode would make a lovely little function
[15:02] <ibanezmatt13> I will definitely do that when I get it working :)
[15:02] <cn8dn> gps to nxt2 to rrty
[15:03] <ibanezmatt13> functions are not my thing
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[15:03] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: in your prepare_sending function you've got while packets!='' but packets doesn't appear to have been defined
[15:04] <ibanezmatt13> I'll check it out
[15:04] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 probably once they "click" with you, you'll wonder what the fuss was and you'll be using them all the time
[15:04] <ibanezmatt13> that's definitely the case daveake
[15:05] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, so I need to add packets to the arguments of that function
[15:05] <mfa298> also your send_packets and send_gps functions look to do the same thing (so you only need a single function for that)
[15:05] <daveake> Bit like pointers in C
[15:05] <daveake> Once you realise it's "Oh is that all?"
[15:05] <ibanezmatt13> I thought that mfa298 I will fix that eventually
[15:05] <ibanezmatt13> take 2
[15:06] <ibanezmatt13> global name packets is not defined
[15:06] <mfa298> personally I would have started with the code you had before and just created one function (possibly to send data to the ntx2). Once that's working look at what else could be put into a function
[15:06] <daveake> Yeah try not to use globals
[15:06] <G0MJW-Phone> Polymorphism
[15:06] <G0MJW-Phone> Function overliading.
[15:07] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, I'll go back to my ugly code and just add the 1 function
[15:08] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5694404 this works perfectly, just it looks terrible without functions
[15:08] <G0MJW-Phone> Actually globals are ok on embedded microcontrollers,
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[15:08] <Matt_> .
[15:08] <fsphil> ,
[15:08] <mfa298> there's a lot to be said for making small changes and then fixing the errors.
[15:08] Nick change: Matt_ -> Guest1560
[15:09] <G0MJW-Phone> but tidy code is so much easier to debug
[15:09] <ibanezmatt13> So I'm gonna create my first function to send data to NTX2
[15:10] <ibanezmatt13> I want it to send telemetry and packets
[15:10] <fsphil> both strings as far as python cares
[15:10] <cn8dn> yes
[15:10] <fsphil> that's not the case for C btw
[15:10] <fsphil> C strings are ended by a 0x00 byte
[15:10] <cn8dn> ibanezmatt13: ardunio ?
[15:10] <ibanezmatt13> Pi :)
[15:11] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: from your ugly code I think you could create a small function to send data to the NTX2 (like you had in your functions version) and then call it twice once for datastring and once for packets
[15:11] <cn8dn> ibanezmatt13: arduino please ?
[15:11] <ibanezmatt13> cn8dn, I'll start with Arduino eventually I think
[15:12] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, ok, so I need it to be generic for sending both things.
[15:12] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: one thing to remember, the variables inside the function aren't usually the same as the ones in the calling code.
[15:12] <ibanezmatt13> oh right
[15:12] <cn8dn> I'm looking for
[15:12] <cn8dn> arduino
[15:12] <fsphil> a function, the code and variables within it are it's own little program
[15:13] <fsphil> it only interacts with what calls it via the values passed to it when calling the function, and what it returns
[15:13] <fsphil> or global variables, but you generally try to avoid those
[15:13] <fsphil> but sometimes they are a handy evil :)
[15:13] <ibanezmatt13> So when I create my send function, would the arguments be the variables from outside the function that I need? i.e. send(datastring, packets)
[15:14] <fsphil> probably just a single string
[15:14] <mfa298> (or if you start using pointers - but I'm not sure if you can do that in python.
[15:14] <fsphil> you'd call it for both the data strings, and the packets
[15:14] <ibanezmatt13> I don't think pointers are used much in Python
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[15:14] <ibanezmatt13> So it'd be send(variabletobesent)
[15:15] <ibanezmatt13> that's for defining it I guess?
[15:15] <fsphil> something like that
[15:15] <fsphil> brb
[15:15] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: that sounds right, from the gist code lines 171-176 should be able to be replcaced with two lines, send(datastring); send(packets)
[15:16] <ibanezmatt13> def send(variable): and then for calling it from outside the function I'd do send(packets) or send(gps)
[15:16] <ibanezmatt13> It's the defining the function which isn't quite right then?
[15:16] <mfa298> you could define the function as someting like def send (datatosend)
[15:16] <mfa298> then you use datatosend as the variable inside the function
[15:17] <ibanezmatt13> that makes sense! I've been thinking in a complete different way
[15:17] <ibanezmatt13> Now I see why people do f(x)
[15:18] <ibanezmatt13> i've prepared a send function https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5694404
[15:18] <G7UXW> $$ANU,1152,15:17:00,52.04297,0.03548,2412,8,24.1,0.0,5.91*8CA7<<<<<<<<<< Last good packet from ANU here in Godalming IO91qe
[15:19] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: that looks good, now you just have to send the two bits of data to the function
[15:19] <ibanezmatt13> it would be much easier if I also worked on a function for reading the GPS, it's in my way a bit
[15:19] <g6gzh> horizon in about 15 strings from now
[15:19] <GMT> is there a HAB award for closest landing to the prime meridien ... ANU looks like it will land at 0 degrees longitude
[15:20] <Upu_M0UPU> be impressive if it does :)
[15:21] <mfa298> it's probably best to get one function working first, then you can move onto the next. Reading gps might be a bit more interesting as you might need to return data from the function.
[15:21] <daveake> It did -32767 metres once before, so why not? :)
[15:21] <Upu_M0UPU> haha
[15:22] <G0MJW-Phone> Is it using floats?
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[15:23] <g6gzh> and gone
[15:24] <ibanezmatt13> I'm pretty sure there's nothing more to do on that send function. I know how to call it for the different data too, I just think I need to tidy it up a bit before I call it
[15:25] <cuddykid> payload almost built for tomorrow :)
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[15:25] <cn8dn> ibanezmatt13: http://hackaday.com/2010/03/17/arduino-balloon-tracking/
[15:25] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: with whats on gist it looks like you've done the right thing. Although you removed two sends of sending data but not put the function calls back in yet - but you might not have uploaded that version
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[15:26] <cn8dn> file you have
[15:26] <ibanezmatt13> cn8dn, I'll have a read of that, thanks
[15:26] <mfa298> cn8dn: there are various examples of how to read data from the gps and send it to an ntx2 on the ukhas wiki.
[15:26] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, I deliberately left the calls out
[15:27] Nick change: Upu_M0UPU -> Upu
[15:27] <ibanezmatt13> I'd like to neaten the GPS side of things before I put them in because it's a bit all over the place
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[15:27] <mfa298> personally I'd put them in as then your code should work the same as it did before.
[15:27] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'll do it :)
[15:29] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: for reading the gps personally I'd have a function that get's the string from gps, processes it into variables and then returns the bits you need in a suitable format to the calling function.
[15:30] <mfa298> although that's going to require looking up how to return multiple values from a function
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[15:30] <daveake> Also you need to decide how it handles things like not getting any GPS data at all
[15:31] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'll just see if the updated code works then I'll work on that. And daveake I'll work on that too :)
[15:31] <daveake> e.g. it might time out after 5 seconds and return a value meaning "No GPS"
[15:31] <ibanezmatt13> I had something like that previously, a timeout
[15:31] <ibanezmatt13> and loads of print statements
[15:31] <ibanezmatt13> running I get, name "send" is not defined
[15:32] <ibanezmatt13> although I have defined send function
[15:33] <ibanezmatt13> do I have to define the function above where it executes?
[15:33] <mfa298> you might need to put the function definition at the start of the code. unless you can do a prototype defintion at the top
[15:33] <ibanezmatt13> aha, I'll move it :)
[15:34] <ibanezmatt13> ok, it's working
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[15:35] <GadgetDroid> cuddykid: any prediction for tomorrow?
[15:36] <cuddykid> one mo
[15:36] <cn8dn> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[15:36] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, it's still sending the same packet over and over
[15:36] <ibanezmatt13> must be something to do with where it reads the file
[15:36] <cn8dn> ok good code full gps ....................final
[15:36] <daveake> ARe you closing and opening the file each time?
[15:36] <ibanezmatt13> no
[15:37] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: I think you've lost the line " packets = packets_file.read(256)" which was after sending the data
[15:37] <daveake> So you're not reading a new blovck eahc time
[15:37] <cuddykid> GadgetDroid: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=d801ad0a81ef7ccc64d810e704280b703b5a06ae
[15:37] <ibanezmatt13> aha, that used to exist, I'll put that back in
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[15:37] <daveake> Handy Hint: Try and figure these things out yourself first - good practice :)
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[15:38] <daveake> The errors you get are usualyl a big clue as to where you've messed up
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[15:38] <mfa298> this is why its worth making small changes and testing after each one - and keep copies of the previously working version
[15:38] <ibanezmatt13> only issue is, the send function doesn't know what packets_file is
[15:38] <daveake> The send function shouldn't care
[15:38] <mfa298> i don't think your send function needs to know that
[15:38] <daveake> The send function should just send whatever you tell it to send
[15:39] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[15:39] <ibanezmatt13> I'll run it now
[15:39] <ibanezmatt13> so far so good
[15:39] <daveake> which could be part of that file, or some telemetry, or "Hello Mum look my payload is up in the air"
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[15:39] <mfa298> your send function replaces 6 lines from the previous code - you took out 7 lines
[15:39] <ibanezmatt13> still one packets
[15:40] <ibanezmatt13> packet
[15:40] <daveake> Well, fix it then :)
[15:40] <ibanezmatt13> I'm attempting to
[15:40] <daveake> good stuff let us know when you've done it :)
[15:41] <ibanezmatt13> I will do, hopefully
[15:41] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[15:41] <daveake> I'm being cruel to be kind ... it's all good learning
[15:41] <ibanezmatt13> Trust me, I'm glad you are :)
[15:41] <ibanezmatt13> I'll thank you one day
[15:41] <cuddykid> one of my trackers has gone walkabouts.. not good
[15:41] <daveake> Programming is a masochistic career - constantly being told by compilers etc that you've messed up yet again
[15:42] <daveake> So best get used to it :)
[15:42] <ibanezmatt13> I will do I'm sure
[15:42] <mfa298> usually a cryptic message telling that tells you the error is on the line after the real error
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[15:42] <daveake> I remember once trying to write a program in Algol
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[15:42] <daveake> 100 lines of code
[15:42] <daveake> 105 errors
[15:43] <ibanezmatt13> oh dear
[15:43] <daveake> I think I missed a brace or something :)
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[15:43] <mfa298> if it's anything like C it would be a missing brace or missing semi-colon
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[15:44] <ibanezmatt13> perhaps in my send function I should have a while packets != '' part. That way it'll stay pretty much in the function and won't mess up
[15:44] <mfa298> your previous send function was right (when it only had three lines)
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[15:45] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, I wonder why it wasn't reading the file properly then...
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[15:45] <cn8dn> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[15:45] <cn8dn> no gps
[15:46] <mfa298> look at your previously (no functions) code and look at what was there, and what your function has replaced
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[15:46] <jcoxon> haha i managed to 25 strings decoded
[15:47] <jcoxon> i haven't even been here - just left the radio and dl-fldigi running
[15:47] <ibanezmatt13> well done :)
[15:47] <mfa298> cn8dn: that guide is for the ntx2, there are other guides for the gps.
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[15:49] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, the problem is that I'm not re-reading the packets file
[15:49] <LeoBodnar> Is 7N2 slightly better for staying in sync then 7N1?
[15:50] <cn8dn> seeks full code please I give you a paypal for this code
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[15:51] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: what you used to do was: open ntx2, send data, close ntx2, open ntx2, send data, close ntx2, read in more packets.
[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[15:52] <mfa298> you now have a function to: open ntx2, send data, close ntx2
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[15:52] <mfa298> and you call that function twice.
[15:52] <mfa298> which bit is missing ?
[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> I need to re read the packet file under the call of send(packets) ?
[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> perhaps
[15:53] <mfa298> try it
[15:53] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[15:53] <Hix> Wondering about groundplane for uBlox. If I have bot top and bottom ground pour [is that correct term for filling board with ground apart from tracks] do I then need a separate polygone for the ublox footprint?
[15:53] <Hix> that would be polygone not a dead parrot btw
[15:53] <Hix> or polygon
[15:53] <Hix> even
[15:54] <mfa298> cn8dn: i don't think anyone here is going to provide full code. Plus without exactly the same hardware any code is unlikely to be of use.
[15:55] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, we have liftoff :)
[15:55] <ibanezmatt13> all new packets
[15:55] <mfa298> excellent
[15:55] <ibanezmatt13> I think the fact that I understand it is more excellent than the program even working! :)
[15:56] <ibanezmatt13> looks like the send function is complete
[15:56] <jcoxon> ibanezmatt13, no point getting something working if you don't understsand how its works!
[15:56] <mfa298> understanding it the important bit.
[15:56] <ibanezmatt13> of cours it is
[15:56] <ibanezmatt13> now onto the GPS function.
[15:56] <cn8dn> gps small PA6C GPS + LLC
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: I still want a light sabre.
[15:58] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: that one is likely to be more of a challenge but hopefully you now understand how functinos work a bit better
[15:58] <ibanezmatt13> I actually do, thanks :)
[15:59] <ibanezmatt13> So the GPS function takes no arguments. And it's gonna produce a datastring
[15:59] <mfa298> there's a few different ways you can do it - that's one
[15:59] <ibanezmatt13> I'll try this one out
[16:00] <LeoBodnar> Hix, why do you think you need separate ground for U-BLOX?
[16:00] <Hix> something on the spec sheet for improving the signal
[16:00] <Hix> though don't have sheet to hand
[16:01] <mfa298> personally I would have it read in the gps data and just return time,lat,long,alt,sats etc. However that's probably a bit harder to do. The main loop would then create the data string (or could use the gps data for something else - e.g. make it available to add exif data to photos)
[16:02] <mfa298> it's probably worth doing it your way first as that's going to be much simpler to do and understand
[16:02] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I'll start with this way first. I can always modify it later on when I gain more experience I suppose :)
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[16:03] <mfa298> that's what I was thinking
[16:04] <LeoBodnar> You only need separate ground planes if your have heavy return currents over them. Not the case for U-BLOX
[16:04] <LeoBodnar> You have ground pour on all layers?
[16:05] <Hix> top and bottom yes LeoBodnar
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[16:06] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5694404
[16:06] <ibanezmatt13> That's where I'm up to
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[16:07] <ibanezmatt13> I'm just troubleshooting an error: local variable 'counter' referenced before assignment
[16:09] <ibanezmatt13> I have a variable 'counter' defined out of all functions and loops at the start of the program. In my function, I thought that if I define something out of a function, I should still be able to use it without re-defining it
[16:09] <ibanezmatt13> in a function
[16:09] <mfa298> one fix might be to have couter as a global variable - there might be another option as well
[16:10] <mfa298> this is probably the one downside of doing it this way
[16:10] <ibanezmatt13> I htought globals were bad
[16:10] <ibanezmatt13> thought*
[16:10] <LeoBodnar> Hix, stitch them together everywhere and especially around U-BLOX and UHF parts. I have looked through U-BLOX integration manual the don't have any scary stuff there. Just pour all layers under U-BLOX with ground copper and don't slice it with unnecessary signals.
[16:10] <ibanezmatt13> there must be an alternativ way
[16:11] <lz1dev> ibanezmatt13: you need global <variable name>
[16:11] <mfa298> globals are generally seen as bad, but there are some times when they're acceptable.
[16:11] <lz1dev> at the start of your functino
[16:12] <lz1dev> if you are going to change it
[16:12] <lz1dev> if you are just reading you dont
[16:12] <ibanezmatt13> I'm going to define it once, and it's going to increment. I use it for an incrementing sentence id for checksum
[16:12] <mfa298> another way you could possibly do it is have counter incremented in the main loop and pass the value to your function
[16:12] <lz1dev> nonsense
[16:13] <Hix> here's what Ive currently got LeoBodnar
[16:14] <Hix> http://i.imgur.com/T7dnDtr.png
[16:14] <mfa298> that way means you don't need a global variable. I don't think there's much in it between the two methods.
[16:14] <chrisstubbs> Ah Mr Hix
[16:14] <lz1dev> ibanezmatt13: just add 'global counter' at the start of read_gps()
[16:14] <chrisstubbs> would you still like my board files?
[16:14] <Hix> oh, btw LeoBodnar HAVE YOU SEEN THIS COMPANY, JUST UP THE ROAD FROM YOU, VERY REASONABLE TOO http://www.toby.co.uk/index.aspx
[16:14] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[16:14] <Hix> Grrr CAD lock
[16:14] <Hix> ahh hello chrisstubbs
[16:15] <fsphil> CAD lock sounds scary
[16:15] <chrisstubbs> DTEXT WE LOVE CAPS
[16:15] <Hix> it wasnt really CAD lock fsphil
[16:15] <Hix> though i often shout when im at work and using CAD-lock
[16:15] <Hix> chrisstubbs: should be good thanks.
[16:15] <Hix> reckon what i had was up to spec
[16:16] <ibanezmatt13> it works now
[16:16] <lz1dev> its simple, if you use a global varible and want to change it inside of function, you need global <variable name>
[16:17] <ibanezmatt13> I just thought globals were bad
[16:17] <Hix> board pretty much good to go http://i.imgur.com/E02fjOe.png just need some poncey silk artwork now :)
[16:17] <LeoBodnar> Thanks Hix, we have a large customer on the Beaumont Road in Banbury :) I will have a look at Toby next time I am there.
[16:17] <lz1dev> ibanezmatt13: its bad if you have really long code
[16:17] <ibanezmatt13> hmm suppose it is
[16:18] <ibanezmatt13> I'm gonna try decoding it. Am I allowed to upload to spacenear.us/tracker and ssdv.habhub.org now?
[16:18] <lz1dev> you can use globals ,for stuff you need
[16:18] <LeoBodnar> You need to go more mental on vias Hix. :)
[16:18] <lz1dev> that doesnt change
[16:18] <lz1dev> like urls and whatnot
[16:18] <ibanezmatt13> I see, thanks lz1dev :)
[16:18] <Hix> nps LeoBodnar they do look really good. Especially for 1m lengths of Dual-lok
[16:19] <ibanezmatt13> Have all HABs finished for today?
[16:19] <chrisstubbs> Hix we are in the same boat now, water pump went on the fiesta last night :(
[16:19] <Hix> leo more vias? really?
[16:19] <Hix> chrisstubbs: Dampers ordered. wallet caned, 2 week lead-time
[16:19] <Hix> did you destroy the engine or just get it a bit warm?
[16:19] <chrisstubbs> Car book into garage on same day as pico launch, this could be interesting
[16:19] <chrisstubbs> dont want to cancel either
[16:20] <Hix> to be fair, it should be a cheap fix on a fiesta
[16:20] <Hix> if I'd have known I could have had a look today
[16:20] <chrisstubbs> My dad usualy helps out and we do jobs like that at home, but hes tied up at the moment
[16:20] <Hix> bugger
[16:20] <chrisstubbs> not literally
[16:21] <Hix> bring out the gimp
[16:21] <mfa298> in this case the correct way would probably be to increment counter in the main loop and pass the value to the read_gps function. *but* I think the use of a global variable like you've done makes the code more readable - which is a good thing. Quick searching suggests there are other methods to do this but they're more complex.
[16:21] <chrisstubbs> sorry gone totally OT.. Yeah Hix more vias never hurts
[16:21] <Hix> more vias on the menu then
[16:21] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, in that case, I'll stick with globals just for a little while :)
[16:22] <LeoBodnar> Yes, especially where you have RF connector. Bottom ground layer needs to connect to the top one otherwise it is just a massive antenna.
[16:22] <LeoBodnar> What Eagle version are you using?
[16:22] <ibanezmatt13> so far so good, it's uploading telemetry and images. Reckon I should create a function for finding the best image and packetising it?
[16:23] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: good idea - readable code is always worth while.
[16:23] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'll go for it
[16:23] <ibanezmatt13> I certainly understand functions a lot more!
[16:23] <mfa298> the good idea was for sticking with globals.
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[16:23] <mfa298> not looked at what your doing for finding the best image yet
[16:24] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5694404
[16:24] <ibanezmatt13> In the main loop I'm looking for the biggest image (I know biggest isn't always best, but hey :)
[16:24] <ibanezmatt13> It then returns the name of the file that is the biggest image
[16:25] <ibanezmatt13> This file name is then packetised with fsphil's SSDV prograqm
[16:25] <ibanezmatt13> Then I have the holy packet file
[16:25] <LeoBodnar> HIx, what Eagle ver do you have?
[16:25] <Hix> 6.3.0 LeoBodnar
[16:26] <mfa298> for choosing what to put in the function look at what makes a block of related code that could easily be replaced by a function
[16:26] <mfa298> part of that you need to consider where/how the variables are used
[16:27] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a look now
[16:27] <mfa298> I know which bit I'd put in a function - but I'll let you have some ideas first.
[16:28] <ibanezmatt13> I guess I'd definitely put the bit up to where it returns the file name of the best file
[16:29] <LeoBodnar> I have 5.11 otherwise I could have added them to your file to show what I mean. Here is what I usually do: http://leobodnar.com/files/mental-VIAs.png
[16:29] <LeoBodnar> Vias are cheap (free)
[16:31] <chrisstubbs> Hix: http://bit.ly/14J9SgH Page 33 onwards
[16:31] <chrisstubbs> Good reading if you get bored at work
[16:32] <chrisstubbs> Note if you put vias VERY close to the gnd pins on the module they can get hard to solder with a fine tip
[16:32] <Hix> I've got it cheers chrisstubbs LeoBodnar geep ground pour away from GPS and then?
[16:33] <LeoBodnar> Only if you use chip antenna.
[16:33] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, I've had a think. I need the function to scan for the best file, then packetise it. Is that all I need it to do. I'm at the point where I've started to put what looks like too much into the function
[16:33] <LeoBodnar> You seem to be using SMA?
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[16:34] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: one thing that's worth thinking of is justifying why your doing something.
[16:34] <LeoBodnar> What is this single pad to the right of the SMA/SMB socket?
[16:35] <mfa298> i think there's a couple of options. What you said first works with your code as it is now (function to return the name of the best file)
[16:36] <Hix> top left is sarantel though the chip antenna shares the RF in pin
[16:36] <Hix> so I can choose either antenna
[16:36] <mfa298> or you could also move the ssdv line into that function to create the packets file
[16:36] <chrisstubbs> Hix i dont think the chip ant will work there
[16:37] <ibanezmatt13> So two functions, one to find best file, another to packetise. I could sent the bestfile from that function to the other; I know how to do that now :)
[16:37] <LeoBodnar> Chip antenna won't work in this case. It needs a lot of clear space, no ground anywhere near it. I would even suggest leaving solder mask out.
[16:37] <chrisstubbs> the GND underneath it will make it next to useless :(
[16:37] <mfa298> the way I was thinking first was just to replace the code to select the best file with a function than returns the best file name.
[16:37] <ibanezmatt13> I'll start with that then
[16:37] <Hix> hmm, sod the chip ant then. another u.fl it is then
[16:38] <chrisstubbs> Whats the heaer on the middle left?
[16:38] <mfa298> this function will do something new that you've not done yet as it needs to return a value to where it was called.
[16:39] <LeoBodnar> If you can track down antenna's manufacturer datasheet it will have a section of recommended PCB layout.
[16:39] <mfa298> so you'll probably want to have something like file=get_best_file()
[16:39] <ibanezmatt13> I was just about to say that I could do that :)
[16:39] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks :)
[16:39] <ibanezmatt13> I'll try it
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[16:41] <Hix> chrisstubbs: which one?
[16:41] <Hix> above 10K silk?
[16:41] <LeoBodnar> I have just received these prototypes: http://leobodnar.com/files/IMG_1254.jpg http://leobodnar.com/files/IMG_1255.jpg
[16:41] <chrisstubbs> 6 pin 0.1" header
[16:41] <ibanezmatt13> ok mfa298 I got it working :)
[16:42] <mfa298> wow, that was quick
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[16:42] <Hix> pin breakouts chrisstubbs
[16:42] <ibanezmatt13> It was :)
[16:42] <Hix> they're "compact" LeoBodnar
[16:42] <chrisstubbs> Ah fair play :)
[16:42] <chrisstubbs> Yes very small, something to do with servos?
[16:42] <Hix> 2analogue and 3 digital this time
[16:42] <chrisstubbs> good plan!
[16:42] <LeoBodnar> No, they are backup trackers, no GPS, just beeping signals - sputnik-like.
[16:43] <Hix> LeoBodnar: that some kind of amt amp
[16:43] <ibanezmatt13> I have only a little bit left in the main loop: The packetising bit. Should I put this into a function or shall I just leave it in the loop
[16:43] <Hix> oh wow cool
[16:43] <chrisstubbs> Ah I see, sneaky servo connector in the background put me off
[16:43] <Hix> are they flowed, surely not done by hand
[16:43] <mfa298> i think your main loop is probably simple enough now
[16:43] <LeoBodnar> Yes, in a small IR oven
[16:44] <ibanezmatt13> I'll upload my new code for you
[16:44] <mfa298> i dont think there's much you could sensibly do to make it simpler
[16:44] <ibanezmatt13> nor do I. I can't thank you enough for helping me with functions. They make so much more sense
[16:45] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5694404
[16:45] <mfa298> as daveake or fsphil said earlier, once you get functions they make so much sense.
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[16:46] <ibanezmatt13> They do! Also, I'll neaten it up a bit with some spacing and comments later
[16:46] <ibanezmatt13> Thank you again :)
[16:47] <mfa298> the indentation for "return best_file" might want looking at although that's ouside of my python knowledge - I prefer it when things are scoped with braces not tabs.
[16:47] <fsphil> one of the early programming languages I used didn't have functions. just line numbers and goto :)
[16:48] <ibanezmatt13> i will work on the spacing and other little things later. Thanks :)
[16:48] <mfa298> fsphil: that sounds a bit like a form of basic - although even bbc basic had functions of a form.
[16:48] <G0MJW-PC> Gotos? You were lucky....
[16:48] <fsphil> mfa298: yea, C64 basic. which I learned later was made by Microsoft
[16:48] <G0MJW-PC> We had to write code in assembler
[16:48] <fsphil> it also had gosub and return
[16:49] <mfa298> with the current indentation in your find_best_file function I think it might be returning the first file it looks at rather than the largest.
[16:49] <ibanezmatt13> oh, I'll have a look
[16:50] <fsphil> yea I prefer the braces too mfa298
[16:51] <ibanezmatt13> in the first instance yes you're correct
[16:52] <ibanezmatt13> i could run it twice before packetising
[16:52] <ibanezmatt13> Or I need to do something with that biggest size variable at the start
[16:53] <ibanezmatt13> I guess I need biggest_size out of the function?
[16:53] <mfa298> i'm assuming return does the same as other funtions in that it ends the function at the point it's reached
[16:53] <LeoBodnar> Hix, you are placing components too close to the mounting holes. I usually leave at least twice the hole diameter area free.
[16:53] <mfa298> most of your function is fine
[16:54] <mfa298> but I think it will only ever check the first file
[16:54] <ibanezmatt13> I thought it automatically only returned the largest file, but I'm probably wrong, I'll check it out
[16:54] <mfa298> as you'll get the first file, compare it's size to 0, set the biggest size to it's size and then return
[16:55] <LeoBodnar> All the mounting screws will interfere with components
[16:55] <Hix> Nylon screws LeoBodnar that's ok no?
[16:55] <mfa298> you need it to finish the for loop before returning
[16:55] <ibanezmatt13> I thought that's what it was doing?
[16:55] <ibanezmatt13> Oh i see
[16:55] <ibanezmatt13> Of course
[16:56] <ibanezmatt13> Yep, otherwise as you say it'll always be the first file. I'll re indent it so that it only executes at the end of the for loop
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[16:56] <mfa298> it's one of those not so obious bugs as it will look like its working when you run the code
[16:56] <ibanezmatt13> you won't believe this, it's received 15 and lost 0! 0! That's never happened before
[16:57] <Hix> vias anyone http://i.imgur.com/NiR4knW.png
[16:57] <mfa298> can we pretend thats due to your improved code with functions :D
[16:58] <ibanezmatt13> of course we can :)
[16:58] <mfa298> even though I doubt the functions have made that improvment
[16:58] <LeoBodnar> I just don't rely on specific screws. Typical M2.5 M3, etc screws have head diameter slightly smaller than double thread. I.e. 6mm dia for M3 screw clearance area, etc.
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[16:58] <ibanezmatt13> definitely not, I'm not sure why it's loosing far less actually. I'm not complaining though :)
[16:59] <ibanezmatt13> received 25 lost 2, that's a record.
[16:59] <ibanezmatt13> and the 2 I lost happened when I had to alter the receiver freq
[17:00] <mfa298> it could be as simple as the reciever being in a slightly different location so a better signal.
[17:01] <ibanezmatt13> Possibly. I think a reliable power supply will eventually make a big difference
[17:01] <mfa298> the signal could just have been too strong before so upseting the reciever
[17:01] <ibanezmatt13> I must say, signal strength is off the scale
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[17:01] <Hix> got thatr covered LeoBodnar http://www.toby.co.uk/content/catalogue/products.aspx?series=BSS-xx
[17:02] <cuddykid> too many points for chrome by the looks of it, can't load up spacenear as it keeps on freezing ha
[17:03] <ibanezmatt13> cuddykid, I had the same problem
[17:03] <cuddykid> finally finished the payload box - talk about leaving it late :P
[17:03] <cuddykid> now to pack the car!
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[17:06] <LeoBodnar> Lol Hix I though the are screw holes. Otherwise I would have used large vias :)
[17:07] <Hix> ?
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[17:08] <LeoBodnar> Good job with vias Hix
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[17:10] <number10_M0MDB> payload recovered was in large stud
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[17:13] <Upu> cool
[17:13] <cuddykid> tesco mobile's online account management thing is utterly attrotious
[17:14] <Upu> didn't seem too bad a place to land number10_M0MDB
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[17:14] <number10_M0MDB> large number of expensive racehorses, but noone around
[17:14] <number10_M0MDB> so climbed fence
[17:15] <number10_M0MDB> i am probably on their cctv
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[17:15] <Upu> no numbers to call ?
[17:16] <number10_M0MDB> no
[17:16] <number10_M0MDB> pressed the gate intercom on both the eas and west wing tuds
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[17:16] <Upu> oh well
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[17:21] <Hix> that Hirose DF12 is an utter arse to solder, tried drag method with loads of flux and it's bridged like a good un :/
[17:22] <LeoBodnar> Post it to me and I will fix it :)
[17:23] Nick change: GadgetDroid -> G7SWP
[17:26] <LeoBodnar> Hix, you can use a cheap oven for SMT stuff
[17:27] <Hix> LeoBodnar: replacing the dampers on the car have put paid to purchases for a good while
[17:32] <Hix> Bugger!!! http://stratosvision.com/img/_D2X4299 http://stratosvision.com/img/_D2X4298
[17:33] <LeoBodnar> Oh dear
[17:34] <LeoBodnar> Do you have good solder wick?
[17:34] <cuddykid> payload weighs in at 1kg :)
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[17:35] <zyp> I'd try a solder suction pump rather than wick
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[17:36] <zyp> also, flux doesn't help much if your solder iron can't supply enough heat
[17:37] Nick change: Steffann -> Steffanx
[17:38] <Hix> just hot aired the header off the board, will wick it then see if i can hot air it back on
[17:39] <cuddykid> to double check (as usually I just put in a whole T cylinder into H1000 so don't bother with free lift etc) - when it says "neck lift" on the calc - it's referring to free lift right?
[17:40] <cuddykid> actually, that might not be the correct term
[17:41] <cuddykid> rephrased - is "neck lift" the amount of lift the balloon should have? so, I'll dangle that amount of weight below balloon whilst filling?
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[17:42] <zyp> cuddykid, it's the amount of lift measured at the neck, i.e. not subtracting the weight of the payload hanging below the neck
[17:42] <cuddykid> great, cheers zyp
[17:42] <cuddykid> looking about 2.2kg of neck lift for tomorrow :)
[17:44] <fsphil> hold on tight
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[17:49] <anerDev> guys
[17:49] <anerDev> my payload polystirine box is a cylindrer
[17:50] <anerDev> the maxium distance from the border of electronics circuit is 5 cm
[17:50] <anerDev> the minium is 3 cm
[17:50] <anerDev> with 3 cm I have problem for the temperature insulation ?
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[17:51] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[17:53] <anerDev> hello ! =D
[17:55] <anerDev> anyone can help me ?
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[17:56] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs,
[17:56] <Lunar_Lander> I found a drill for my breakout :)
[17:57] <Ugi_> Hi Guys - how did ANU get on? Looks from the tracker as if they must have recovered the payload.
[18:01] <x-f> Ugi_, number10 reported about successful recovery
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[18:01] <x-f> had a minor break-in :>
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[18:01] <x-f> anerDev, you should be fine
[18:03] <Hix> any ideas why my tracker has what appears to be two signals http://i.imgur.com/97qa9yf.png
[18:03] <Phil_M0DNY> Hix: That's called RTTY
[18:03] <Phil_M0DNY> It shifts between the two frequencies
[18:04] <Phil_M0DNY> one freq for '1', the other for '0'
[18:06] <Hix> understand that but in SDR# there is normally 1 peak and 1 signal http://i.imgur.com/m7xrdF2.png
[18:06] <chrisstubbs> hix could you have set your shift wayyy too high?
[18:07] <Hix> it also has a kind of weird warble
[18:07] <Phil_M0DNY> Shift looks normal, you're just zoomed in a lot.
[18:07] <Hix> nothing has changed on the board
[18:07] <Phil_M0DNY> The warble does look strange though..
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[18:08] <anerDev> ook x-f
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[18:09] <Phil_M0DNY> Double-peak is perfect RTTY, with 10101010 both peaks will be equally strong (roughly).
[18:10] <Hix> could be that I've just never zoomed in that far with SDR# before. The issue is that the frequency is drifting up and down, which is weird
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[18:11] <Phil_M0DNY> The drifting is not normal. NTX2 or RFM22b?
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[18:11] <Hix> NTX2
[18:12] <x-f> Hix, you sure it isn't your receiver that is drifting?
[18:12] <Hix> doing it on rx and dongle
[18:12] <Ugi_> x-f cool - glad to hear it.
[18:12] <Phil_M0DNY> I wouldn't expect the receiver to drift in sharp steps like that.
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[18:13] <Hix> no i would think that if it was warming up it would be linear
[18:13] <x-f> my R820T rarely does that
[18:13] <Phil_M0DNY> The slow drift will probably be rtlsdr warming up
[18:13] <Phil_M0DNY> but the sudden jumps are something different.
[18:13] <Hix> but there are distinct steps too and then it goes back down also
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[18:14] <Phil_M0DNY> yeah.. and shift stays the same!
[18:14] <Phil_M0DNY> What are you using for yur mcu power supply?
[18:14] <Hix> NiMh at the mo
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[18:16] <Phil_M0DNY> What regulator? I'm wondering if you've got slight voltage steps happening on the power rails.
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[18:17] <Hix> TPS76633D
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[18:19] <Phil_M0DNY> Simple LDO, hmm. Might be worth checking the voltage rails to make sure they're not drooping every now and then.
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[18:19] <Phil_M0DNY> Have you got the GPS connected?
[18:19] <Hix> ok, cheers
[18:20] <Hix> yes, GPS is on the pcb
[18:20] <Hix> and locked
[18:20] <Phil_M0DNY> Ok, thinking that might be the GPS switching between power levels (acquisition/tracking)
[18:21] <Hix> lock has been steady for >30 mind
[18:21] <Phil_M0DNY> It's unlikely to affect a 250mA regulator, but it's my best guess.
[18:21] <Hix> mins, so shouldnt be in acquisition mode
[18:21] <Lunar_Lander> hi chrisstubbs
[18:22] <chrisstubbs> evening LL
[18:22] <Phil_M0DNY> The ublox current draw doesn't tend to be very constant in my experience, even when in the sky.
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[18:25] <anerDev> hello daveake
[18:26] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, today I found a drill that made holes so the HIH-6121 fit on the board
[18:26] <Lunar_Lander> but soldering was a nightmare
[18:26] <Lunar_Lander> thus, the second sensor died of heat as it seems
[18:26] <chrisstubbs> ah :( A little too close together?
[18:27] <Lunar_Lander> yeah and also the soldering didn't work on the board
[18:27] <chrisstubbs> The solder didnt stick to the copper?
[18:27] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. I held the iron on the component and the board itself, then came in with the solder and the solder more like sticked to the iron
[18:27] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:28] <chrisstubbs> The copper may have been dirty or oxidised so the heat wasnt getting in properly
[18:28] <chrisstubbs> You can get little PCB erasers to clean then up a bit
[18:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> then connected to the arduino, loaded up the program and got nothing
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> when I unplugged the sensor, it streamed out "Diagnostic. 99.9 124.7"
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> which are humidity and temperature
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> yeah and the datasheet says not to apply heat more than 4 sec
[18:31] <Lunar_Lander> then soldered the third and final sensor like on the left here http://s.gullipics.com/image/j/7/w/5yvg8g-krkll5-wrkz/IMG0197.jpeg
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[18:31] <Lunar_Lander> and that worked
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[18:37] <chrisstubbs> 1/3 is better than 0/3
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> farnell probably would have had 8 weeks delivery time again
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> mouser has the sensor in stock, but two sensors plus shipping = 50 euro
[18:41] <chrisstubbs> wow thats steep, can you get some free samples?
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> I once wrote honeywell explaining that I am studying physics and so on and asking for samples
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> they wrote that I can find all info about their sensors on their website
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> that was it
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[18:43] <chrisstubbs> haha thats no good!
[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> like these auto e-mails "your suggestion was forwarded to the responsible person..."
[18:43] <chrisstubbs> you may be better off contacting another company that just uses components like that and ask for sponsorship
[18:44] <chrisstubbs> guess they are not too expensive though :P
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah 10 euro/piece
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> xD or we can pass the hat around here
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[18:51] <TeessideJay> Evening all, I'm looking for some advice about launching a balloon...
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> welcome
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> please enter your details for quick help
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> details needed
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> country of origin
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> desired experimental load of balloon
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> I think 'teeside' may be a clue
[18:52] <TeessideJay> Im a Science teacher at a small private school in the north east uk
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> thank you for working with the UKHAS Semi-Automatic entrance system
[18:53] <chrisstubbs> Lunarbot
[18:53] <daveake> Lunartic
[18:53] <TeessideJay> I'm running a STEM project for a small group of students to launch two very simple payloads; one with camera, one with altimeter/temperature logger
[18:54] <chrisstubbs> Ah a fellow STEM member, got my registration through yesterday!
[18:54] <TeessideJay> So a couple of questions really;
[18:54] <lz1dev> 2~```
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> May be useful
[18:55] <TeessideJay> 1. Which form do I need to fill in for the CAA? there's one from 2005 on UKHAS, but I can't find the new 'fill in online' one on the CAA website
[18:55] <TeessideJay> 2. Are there any authorised launch sites 'up north?'
[18:56] <daveake> 1. The 2005 one is the right one
[18:56] <daveake> 2. Nope
[18:56] <TeessideJay> great stuff, not so great stuff
[18:56] <daveake> :)
[18:56] <daveake> It's not a big deal to apply yourself
[18:56] <daveake> Key thing is finding somewhere good to launch from
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[18:57] <daveake> Winds predominantly take the payload eastwards, so you might want to find somewhere west of you :)
[18:57] <TeessideJay> I agree; I've ran a couple of launch simulations from our school grounds, and 8 times out of 10 we're in the north sea!
[18:58] <daveake> Well you could wait for the 2 out of 10. Eventually all parts of the compass get hit, but you may need to wait for a dry landing from there!
[18:58] <SpeedEvil> Find someone in iceland.
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:58] <daveake> Mums like that
[19:00] <TeessideJay> As far as tracking goes; is everyone unanimously a fan of using APRS and a radio? Is there a idiotsguide to this kind of thing? Or do I need to spend months brushing up
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=4bbd74b7df911102a73f91493948782259188d20 - oooh - an actual on-land one.
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> APRS does not work in the UK
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> It's not legal.
[19:00] <TeessideJay> ah buggery
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> (Well, omn the normal frequency, and not using the normal frequency makes it kind of pointless)
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> It is very convenient in the USA
[19:01] <TeessideJay> perhaps i am confusing with something else then
[19:01] <TeessideJay> I read somewhere about using SDR to track the balloon which was broadcasting it's location on the licence exempt chunk of the airwaves
[19:01] <mfa298> APRS on the normal frequency also needs an Amateur Radio License (if you dont have one already) but as AR isn't allowed airborne in the UK that's not so relevant
[19:01] <fsphil> most UK flights use little 434MHz ISM modules, such as the NTX2
[19:02] <LeoBodnar> Hey Jay, where are you in Teesside?
[19:02] <fsphil> to generate RTTY which can be received with an SDR
[19:02] <TeessideJay> Eaglescliffe/Yarm
[19:02] <TeessideJay> I picked up a cheap TV dongle off amazon/ebay a while back...but i'm running mac osx so haven't had much joy getting the thing running
[19:03] <fsphil> those are handy for testing
[19:03] <fsphil> not the most sensitive receivers in the world
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[19:05] <LeoBodnar> Hi buddy, I used to live in Thornaby and had a small office near Eaglescliffe at chromium works place.
[19:05] <TeessideJay> How would one go about setting up a gps transmitter? I have a limited understanding of electonrics
[19:05] <TeessideJay> ah Elementis? a delightful place to work I'm sure....!!
[19:06] <LeoBodnar> ANd I run OS X all my life lol. Sadly I have moved down South last year
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[19:08] <LeoBodnar> They shut down then. Worked at Armstrong's before. They shut down too. OS X has Gqrx to receive the signal on the dongle and dl-fldigi to decode the RTTY signal into data that is then displayed on the tracking website: http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[19:09] <LeoBodnar> This one is slightly buggy but it works http://dekar.wc3edit.net/2012/09/30/osx-port-of-the-awesome-gqrx-sdr-software/
[19:10] <TeessideJay> So how do I actually go about setting the thing up to broadcast the signal in RTTY? Would like students to have as much involvement as possible; so it would be great if this was relatively straight forward...otherwise we've got a SPOT as a backup
[19:10] <TeessideJay> downloading that now Leo; cheers
[19:12] <LeoBodnar> THis one is for decoding http://www.w1hkj.com/download.html you can sometimes pipe audio from a speaker into a mic but the better way is to get some tool that will link audio in and out on a system level. I haven't done this as I am using external receiver.
[19:12] <LeoBodnar> Have a look at this Jay http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[19:13] <mfa298> there are some links on the ukhas wiki for apps that let you pipe audio between applications
[19:14] <TeessideJay> that looks great Leo; our budget is limited, so we couldn't aford to go out and purchase a radio...would SDR be good enough? Or would we rely purely on the spacenear.us tracker?
[19:14] <mfa298> http://ukhas.org.uk/frontpage:software
[19:14] <LeoBodnar> UKHAS wiki is a great site but the only way I could find anything is via the sitemap http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2?do=index
[19:15] <mfa298> the spacenear.us tracker is reliant on people picking up your payload. As it gets lower you need someone close by it (which woulf probably be you) so some sort of reciever is useful
[19:15] <TeessideJay> budget is £700 for two launches so any guidance on gear would be great
[19:15] <TeessideJay> what sort of receiver could we expect to pick up
[19:15] <TeessideJay> ?
[19:16] <TeessideJay> (I appreciate all the help by the way... apologies for the barrage of questions!)
[19:16] <mfa298> for recieving it yourself a few people have used the cheap sdr dongles with a habamb successfully
[19:16] <mfa298> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=72_73&product_id=83
[19:16] <LeoBodnar> I would not get a dedicated receiver just yet if you already have SDR.
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[19:17] <mfa298> there's a decent list of recivers on http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide but most of them cost a fair bit second hand (£400 or more)
[19:17] <TeessideJay> so one assumes the preamp boosts the ability of the SDR to receive signals from further away?
[19:17] <daveake> Successful day number10?
[19:17] <mfa298> the hab amb boosts the signals and also helps filter out other signals
[19:17] <daveake> And helps remove local interference
[19:17] <LeoBodnar> Because other people will help you track it when it is high up there and with SDR you can get the laptop into a car get near expected landing
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[19:18] <number10> thanks to everyone who tracked ANU-6 today - amazing number of listeners
[19:19] <chrisstubbs> number10, great signal from it! NTX2?
[19:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> Flight path object moview etc on here http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/ANU_NANU-20130608/
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[19:19] <number10> yes chrisstubbs
[19:19] <ibanezmatt13> Evening :)
[19:20] <chrisstubbs> Cool, must have been well insulated it seemed rock solid, but I only caught the last half
[19:20] <number10> antenna was not idea as I had the payload tilted at 45 degrees
[19:20] <number10> ideal
[19:20] <number10> so the radials would have not been good in one direction
[19:21] <number10> I dont know what happened to the GPS on the rfm22 board - it was chip antenna and maybe I cracked it - I will look later
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[19:25] <ibanezmatt13_> I've got a very minor problem which for some reason I can't seem to fix. https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5694404 When it scans the directory to check for the largest image, I have an if statement which says, if no image name is returned, only read and send gps. However, I get an error: local variable "file" referenced before assignment. I'm pretty sure I don't need to make this global, so I'm a little c
[19:25] <ibanezmatt13_> onfused...
[19:26] <ibanezmatt13_> Everything works fine apart from when there are no images
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[19:28] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: does it give you anything more useful in the error output (like line number or function it's in)
[19:28] <ibanezmatt13_> line 110, and line 103
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[19:29] <ibanezmatt13_> find_best_file
[19:29] <ibanezmatt13_> I know its a simple fix, but I can't seem to fix it no matter what I try. This only happens when there are no images
[19:30] <mfa298> the the find_best_file consider what happens to the file variable if there are no files.
[19:31] <mfa298> the error for 110 will be a follow on from 103
[19:31] <ibanezmatt13_> I thought that, does it not have a value or something like that
[19:32] <ibanezmatt13_> So the for loop doesn't work properly because there are no "files" to check
[19:32] <mfa298> i think that's going to be the issue. Because os.listdir is probably going to return a null value (or whatever python does)
[19:33] <ibanezmatt13_> I'll run it in the shell to see what it returns
[19:33] <mfa298> there's probably two ways to fix it. An easy (single line fix) or a correct way.
[19:33] <Jess--> how long roughly should a ublox take to get a lock in flight mode with a clear view of the sky?
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[19:33] <ibanezmatt13_> correct way is probably better
[19:34] <chrisstubbs> Jess--, it can vary a lot
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13_> mfa298, It returns []
[19:34] <chrisstubbs> takes 12 mins to load the almanac data
[19:35] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: my guess is that indicates its an empty array
[19:36] <Jess--> I'm at 12 mins and it hasn't got time yet, let alone a lock
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13_> Perhaps I could check to see what os.listdir returns prior to running the for loop>
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13_> ?
[19:36] <mfa298> looking at that function again I think there's still an indentation issue (I'm really beginning to hate the lack of braces in python)
[19:37] <chrisstubbs> Jess--, if you have a usb --> TTL cable (FTDI) you can connecto the ublox chip to the u-center software and check out the signal quality of each satelite
[19:37] <mfa298> that's the sort of thing I was thinking of as the correct way.
[19:37] <ibanezmatt13_> yeah your right, I'll re-indent
[19:38] <mfa298> there's probably also another option that's as good - think about what biggest_size will be in the case of files or no files
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13_> more than 0
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[19:39] <mfa298> and what will it be if there are no files ?
[19:39] <ibanezmatt13_> 0 I would think
[19:39] <ibanezmatt13_> But it returns it in list form like []
[19:40] <mfa298> biggest_size looks like it's just a number
[19:40] <ibanezmatt13_> Oh sorry, I was looking at the os.listdir. Yeah of course
[19:41] <ibanezmatt13_> So I could try if size > 0: do everything else: only do gps
[19:41] <mfa298> so could you use that to decide what to return from the function if there are files or not ?
[19:41] <ibanezmatt13_> I shall experiment
[19:42] <mfa298> there should be a fairly obvious solution...
[19:42] <ibanezmatt13_> there should be, but my brain doesn't seem to be functioning. I'll work it out soon I think :)
[19:43] <Jess--> could you not use someting like this ... if functionname <> "[]"
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13_> hmm
[19:44] <Jess--> using <> will catch if it is null
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13_> The thing is, my function at the momet just expects there to be files
[19:46] <ibanezmatt13_> I thought it would have still worked and would just return no file name
[19:46] <Jess--> option 2 would be to leave a blank file in there
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[19:47] <Jess--> and then have your function ignore that file
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13_> could do that I suppose. I just thought there was a much simpler way. I've seen this error many times
[19:47] <mfa298> I think i had a simpler option than that.
[19:48] <ibanezmatt13_> I thought I could work it out myself, but it seems I cannot :( Yet, I know that it's so simple relatively
[19:48] <mfa298> from the answers to the questions I asked earlier biggest_size will be 0 for no files or >0 for files.
[19:48] <ibanezmatt13_> yea
[19:49] <ibanezmatt13_> I could put that at the start of my function I guess
[19:49] <ibanezmatt13_> in fact, scratch that
[19:49] <mfa298> so what do you want to return if there's a file? and what do you want to return *if* there's no files
[19:50] <ibanezmatt13_> if there's a file, I need a filename, if there's no files, I just want it to move on to sending the gps
[19:50] <mfa298> so what return value does your main loop use to decide there's no files
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13_> it just says if the file name is == '' then do the gps function
[19:52] <ibanezmatt13_> and it gets file name from doing best_file = find_best_file()
[19:53] <mfa298> so if you want it to go to the gps function what do you want to return ?
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13_> err, "" I guess - nothing?
[19:54] <mfa298> that would seem sensible. internally it's probably an empty string rather than just nothing
[19:54] <ibanezmatt13_> that's what's already in place...
[19:55] <mfa298> but your function won't currently return that value ever.
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[19:55] <ibanezmatt13_> really? I thought it was setting best_file and then checking best_file
[19:56] <mfa298> currently it will return a filename or the value won't be defined (which is different to "")
[19:56] <mfa298> and as it's undefined you get the errors.
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[19:57] <mfa298> so you want to return a defined value that you know means there are no files (so "")
[19:57] <ibanezmatt13_> so it's undefined because that functions not working because the for loops aren't working.
[19:57] <Ugi_> Hey Guys - is Titan One going up this evening? It's out on the tracker with chase cars etc. but currently at 6m.
[19:58] <mfa298> in a way the for loop is working. It's just that it never runs as there's no data for it to run with.
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[19:58] <ibanezmatt13_> Lost connection
[19:58] <mfa298> I guessed
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13_> :)
[19:58] <mfa298> my last line if you didn't see it was:
[19:58] <mfa298> in a way the for loop is working. It's just that it never runs as there's no data for it to run with.
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[19:59] <ibanezmatt13_> Ok, so I need to check for file names before that loop
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[19:59] <mfa298> well after the for loop has run (or not run) you know if there's a file or not based on biggest_size
[20:00] <ibanezmatt13_> ah ok, so I can just check for biggest_size to be more than 0
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[20:00] <mfa298> that's what I was heading for.
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13_> I know you mentioned that a while back, but now I actually understand where to put that :)
[20:01] <mfa298> and if it's zero you just return "" instead of the filename
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[20:02] <ibanezmatt13_> So I'm still doing this inside the function and keeping the if statements that follow
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[20:02] <ibanezmatt13_> Ok, I think I now understand
[20:02] <mfa298> try it and if you upload the code I'll see if it matches what I was thinking of - but I think you've got it now.
[20:03] <ibanezmatt13_> Thanks mfa298, I'll try it now and I'll upload the code. Shouldn't be too long really
[20:03] <mfa298> this was the third option I came up with. I'll tell you my first ideas in a bit (once you've got this working)
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[20:04] <ibanezmatt13_> I'm gonna run it now
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13_> Haha!!! Yes :)
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13_> Only two lines were needed
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[20:07] <ibanezmatt13_> mfa298, https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5694404
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[20:08] <ibanezmatt13_> meow
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[20:08] <mfa298> in terms of returning the right value that looks right
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[20:09] <mfa298> although your getting some other errors in that function
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13_> Am I? It was working perfectly
[20:09] <mfa298> currently it will return the last file in the directory allways
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[20:10] <mfa298> it's to do with when your running the line: best_file = file
[20:10] <ibanezmatt13_> ah right
[20:11] <ibanezmatt13_> so I need to put "best file = file" back into the for loop
[20:11] <ibanezmatt13_> so it updates
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[20:11] <mfa298> yeah
[20:11] <ibanezmatt13_> wow, I worked that one out myself :)
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[20:11] <mfa298> just get it at the right point of the for loop
[20:12] <mfa298> I think that's where your indentation was wrong earlier
[20:12] <ibanezmatt13_> ok, I'll do that. I've been told by my mother to Google "how to help a toddler with a blocked nose" I'll be back in a minute :)
[20:12] <mfa298> think about when best_file should be updated
[20:12] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13_: get a wet+dry vacuum cleaner.
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[20:13] <ibanezmatt13_> :)
[20:13] Nick change: wibble -> Guest76375
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[20:13] <ibanezmatt13_> ok, blocked nose rectified :)
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[20:15] <ibanezmatt13_> yes mfa298 I realise now that best_file must be updated for each iteration of the for loop otherwise it would always, as you say, return the last file name. Makes sense, thanks :)
[20:16] <mfa298> hopefully not every itteration of the for loop.
[20:16] <ibanezmatt13_> you know what I mean :) I don't even know what that word means
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[20:17] <mfa298> itteration ?
[20:17] <ibanezmatt13_> yeah
[20:17] <ibanezmatt13_> I sound really thick, I mean in a programming sense
[20:18] <mfa298> it's effecively saying every time you run that loop
[20:18] <ibanezmatt13_> why not ever itteration then?
[20:18] <ibanezmatt13_> every*
[20:19] <mfa298> well if you update it every itteration it will be set to the last filename again.
[20:19] <ibanezmatt13_> oh right
[20:19] <mfa298> you only want to update it if it's better than what you previously thought was the best file
[20:20] <ibanezmatt13_> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5694404 I've updated it but now I'm beginning to think it's incorrect
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[20:20] <ibanezmatt13_> oh i see!
[20:20] <ibanezmatt13_> I see!
[20:21] <mfa298> in terms of updating it whats in that gist is right
[20:21] <ibanezmatt13_> That's good :)
[20:21] <mfa298> but you might want to re-write the if statment slightly afterwards
[20:22] <ibanezmatt13_> the one inside or out of the function?
[20:22] <mfa298> the one inside the function
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[20:22] <ibanezmatt13_> if biggest size is > 0
[20:22] <mfa298> best_file will already be correct if there's a file. So you just need to set it to "" if the size is 0
[20:22] <mfa298> (change one line and delete 2)
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[20:23] <ibanezmatt13_> oh right, sure I can do that :)
[20:23] <mfa298> you just need to work out the right lines
[20:24] <ibanezmatt13_> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5694404
[20:25] <mfa298> that looks good.
[20:25] <ibanezmatt13_> Makes sense to keep it simple as opposed to having pointless if statements :)
[20:26] <mfa298> My hacky solution was to put a best_file="" at the start of the function
[20:26] <mfa298> although I'm not sure it would have worked.
[20:26] <ibanezmatt13_> already got that
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[20:26] <mfa298> my other solution was along the ideas you had of checking to see if there were files before the for loop
[20:26] <ibanezmatt13_> I think what we have now is the best option
[20:26] <mfa298> but I think this version is probably better and easier than those.
[20:27] <ibanezmatt13_> Yep
[20:27] <ibanezmatt13_> Do you know what's really pathetic, nobody in my school knows what programming is. In IT, all we've ever learned is how ICT affects individuals.
[20:27] <ibanezmatt13_> We've never ever used programming, not even Scratch or Pic or anythin
[20:28] <ibanezmatt13_> Surely today of all days programming should be the main aspect of IT in schools
[20:28] <ibanezmatt13_> It's certainly better and a hell of a lot more interesting and rewarding than why online shopping is convenient for old people
[20:29] <daveake> Well, that is starting to change
[20:29] Action: SpeedEvil online shops 99.9% of the time
[20:29] <ibanezmatt13_> Yeah I know, thankfully. My school has just ordered lots of Pi's
[20:29] <mfa298> just re-reading hacky solution might have been to add file="" at the start of the function - but that still may not have worked and it's hacky and horrible
[20:30] <chrisstubbs> Im still not sure about the Pi in schools. When my school got landed with the educational trials of the gadgeteer the teachers did not know what to do with it until i rummaged in the cupboard and rescued them!
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> lol that is really crappy
[20:30] <mfa298> wow, I think when I was at school we did some pseudo programming and that would be almost 20 years ago.
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> why invest in schools when there is no one competent to use the sponsored stuff
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[20:31] <chrisstubbs> I suppose its down to the interest of the teacher
[20:31] <daveake> Well obviously just having the kit in schools isn't enough - the teachers need training
[20:31] <ibanezmatt13_> fair point, they could incorporate it into teacher training though.
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> that is what I meant
[20:31] <mfa298> that programming was just simple if type statements for some sets of traffic lights.
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> our school got two cases with fuel cell models in 2003 or so
[20:31] <daveake> If you're going to hand kit out, give it to kids who'll learn at home
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> they were unused until one of our physics+chemistry teachers used them with us about 2005
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[20:32] <ibanezmatt13_> There are some IT teachers at my school who don't know any programming languages
[20:32] <ibanezmatt13_> I said to one not to long ago about me using Python, they said: "What's Python"
[20:32] <daveake> Sadly, IT stands for Incredibly Tedious in most UK schools these days
[20:33] <ibanezmatt13_> it does, it's not IT, it's more about the ethics of IT
[20:33] <daveake> No point "teaching" kids IE and Word or whatever
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[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> how can they be IT teachers?
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> didn't they have to take informatics at uni?
[20:34] <chrisstubbs> I was working with someone who did an A-Level in IT the other day and asked him to type up 5 sentances and print them. Didnt know how.
[20:34] <ibanezmatt13_> If I was lucky enough to get onto the news with my balloon launch, I'd talk about how the youths of today use computers to play video games and just take how the machines work for granted.
[20:35] <ibanezmatt13_> And let's not forget, the world is short of programmers and engineers - at a time when we need them most
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, even IE
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> IE is like the worst browser I would say
[20:35] <chrisstubbs> This has given me somthing to think about for when I start these STEM talks. Kids need to hack
[20:35] <ibanezmatt13_> Agreed
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> axes.
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[20:36] <daveake> Yes, but that's not the point. Kids will pick up whatever browser it is easily. They don't need to be taught it.
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I just wanted to say it
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> informatics in school should be really doing stuff
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> C maybe
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> if that is not too difficult
[20:37] <fsphil> sometimes difficult is better
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> people here at uni get to know Java first
[20:37] <daveake> Python seems an obvious choice
[20:37] <ibanezmatt13_> I try my best to demonstrate some python code to my teachers at school, and they just look at me in disarray
[20:37] <fsphil> I found computers at school so very boring, because it was so simple
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> thing is that I have no idea how python works
[20:37] <fsphil> I learned more hacking the library computer than anything in class :)
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:38] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: if you were looking for another way to improve your code with a function there's a set of operations in your code that get's repeated for two sets of values
[20:38] <daveake> I had to get a bus to get to the nearest computer :p
[20:38] <fsphil> if I did that now I'd probably be expelled or something stupid
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> how far was it away?
[20:38] <daveake> 15 minutes on the bus
[20:38] <ibanezmatt13_> mfa298, the ssdv part?
[20:38] <ibanezmatt13_> wow
[20:39] <daveake> a room full of teletypes
[20:39] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: nope there's something totally different that could be simplified
[20:39] <ibanezmatt13_> hmm, let me take a look
[20:39] <fsphil> I always wanted a printer
[20:39] <fsphil> when I was wee
[20:40] <mfa298> I think I was probably lucky with when I went to school, we had BBC's to play with.
[20:40] <fsphil> loved those machines
[20:40] <mfa298> the original raspberry pi (although not as cheap)
[20:40] <ibanezmatt13_> mfa298, the sending of packets and telemetry?
[20:41] <fsphil> I liked the screens, as back then I had the C64 plugged into a telly and it was all really fuzzy
[20:41] <fsphil> the BBC screen was lovely
[20:41] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: it's related to the telemetry
[20:42] <mfa298> it's a set of calculations you do and then repeat the same calculations for a different set of values
[20:42] <ibanezmatt13_> oh the for loops for the lat and lon?
[20:42] <mfa298> those are the ones.
[20:42] <ibanezmatt13_> So I could have a lat function and a lon function.
[20:43] <mfa298> other than variable names it looks like you're doing the same thing in both
[20:43] <ibanezmatt13_> yeah I am
[20:43] <mfa298> so you should be able to have one function that converts from one format to the other.
[20:43] <ibanezmatt13_> Yeah, I think I'm up to that
[20:44] <ibanezmatt13_> I'll do it
[20:44] <Jess--> fsphil, sounds like you mean the old microvitec cub monitors
[20:45] <mfa298> you should be able to feed it (lats,northsouth) or (lngs,westeast) and get back the string for your telem string
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13_> what would feeding a function multiple values do exactly?
[20:46] <mfa298> I've still got a BBC with the CUB monitor although as it never gets used I was looking at ebaying it.
[20:46] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: you can pass multiple values to a function - it doesn't just have to be a single value
[20:47] <ibanezmatt13_> Ok, I'm working on it
[20:47] <Jess--> the rm nimbus monitors were great for conversion to analogue rgb to use with the amiga's, the cub ones weren't so nice thanks to non linear driver transistors
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[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> Jess--, do you have a science background also?
[20:52] <fsphil> our school had a few rm nimbus PCs too
[20:52] <ibanezmatt13_> mfa298, I've made a shambles of that: https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5694404
[20:52] <Jess--> ish... I was brought up with little / no money so I learnt how to repair or build what I wanted
[20:52] <fsphil> I don't remember much about them
[20:53] <ibanezmatt13_> ooh just realised something, hang on
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> but that is a good trait
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[20:54] <Jess--> also used to be into cb and used to repair / modify those, that got me into radio and I gave up last year and went for the ham license (went from M6 to M0 in 8 months)
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[20:55] <ibanezmatt13_> Ok mfa298 that's what I've got https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5694404
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> and now you did the balloon as of recently?
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[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> Balkan or how was it called?
[20:56] <Jess--> you can blame theregister for me getting into balloons, that got me interested, Ian had been trying to get one up in the air through the local radio club for a couple of years with no luck
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:57] <Jess--> we got talking towards the end of last year and the vbrtest tracker was built (later renamed balcan-one-a)
[20:58] <Jess--> I have also spent several years working with balloons (big hot air balloons, 400,000 cubic feet)
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[20:58] <SpeedEvil> hawt
[21:00] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: i missed the middle version. but the 2nd one looks like it might be right.
[21:00] <mfa298> that's the sort of thing I was thinking
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[21:00] <ibanezmatt13_> I can't believe I'm even close :) I'll try it out
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[21:01] <ibanezmatt13_> mfa298, it said "lats" was not defined
[21:01] <Jess--> for an example of the size of balloon I worked with have a look here
[21:01] <mfa298> i was about to say I think there's one error, but running it will pick it up
[21:01] <ibanezmatt13_> I can't understand why
[21:02] <jcoxon> just watching the aura video
[21:02] <mfa298> look at the line that gives the error and what you've done to the variable names in that function
[21:02] <jcoxon> at 13:57 do we think thats the moon?
[21:02] <jcoxon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FglEnYSAwdg
[21:03] <ibanezmatt13_> ooh so lats needs to be position_data?
[21:03] <mfa298> looks like it
[21:03] <ibanezmatt13_> I'll change it
[21:04] <mfa298> you might need someone that knows python better to confirm if this does what you think it will:
[21:04] <mfa298> if orientation == "S" or "W":
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[21:04] <ibanezmatt13_> Ok, this time it runs but for latitude and longitude when it transmits, lat and lon say "non"
[21:04] <ibanezmatt13_> none"
[21:05] <ibanezmatt13_> oh of course
[21:05] <ibanezmatt13_> why did I do that :) I'll change it
[21:05] <mfa298> in more traditional languages you'de need: if (orientation == S) or (orientation == W)
[21:05] <mfa298> but what you've got might be valid for python
[21:05] <ibanezmatt13_> i think it is
[21:06] <ibanezmatt13_> in fact, I can't work out what's wrong
[21:06] <mfa298> how do you get a value back from the function ?
[21:07] <ibanezmatt13_> Oh god, I forgot the return line
[21:07] <ibanezmatt13_> :p How stupid
[21:07] <ibanezmatt13_> That would make massive sense
[21:07] <ibanezmatt13_> at least I seem to be getting to terms with functions a bit more
[21:08] <mfa298> don't worry, In C and PHP I've spent hours trying to debug issues which ended up being a missing ; on the previous line. (and I'm sure many others have done the same)
[21:08] <ibanezmatt13_> It's working now. :)
[21:09] <ibanezmatt13_> mfa298, you deserve to be knighted for what you've done today. I understand functions so much more you wouldn't believe! Although I must leave now, my Dad is making a fire in the garden so he wants me to sit outside. I thank you so much for your help once again
[21:10] <mfa298> no problems and I think a couple of others deserve some of the credit as well.
[21:10] <ibanezmatt13_> of course, but I think everyone left :)
[21:11] <ibanezmatt13_> thanks :) good night
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[21:40] <chrisstubbs> My hourly predictor is playing up, since moving the VM to another computer the scenario information has gone. I have checked the json config file and it all seems fine. Any idea what the problem could be?
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[21:50] <x-f_> /data/ was not found on this server
[21:51] <x-f_> the predictor hasn't run sucessfully
[21:51] <x-f_> have you checked the logfiles?
[21:51] Nick change: x-f_ -> x-f
[21:51] <chrisstubbs> Ah logfiles!
[21:51] <chrisstubbs> how do i get to those again? ;)
[21:52] <x-f> landing-prediction-data/logs and web/logs
[21:53] <x-f> first one is for the fetcher, second - predictor
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[21:59] <chrisstubbs> x-f http://i.imgur.com/reur4Jf.png
[22:00] <lz1dev> do you have empty files in there?
[22:01] <chrisstubbs> in /gfs?
[22:01] <lz1dev> yep
[22:01] <chrisstubbs> let me take a look
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[22:01] <chrisstubbs> how do you quit VI btw? i struggled last time and just closed terminal
[22:01] <lz1dev> :q
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[22:02] <chrisstubbs> ah the colon, cheers :)
[22:03] <chrisstubbs> ok there are quite a few gfs files in there
[22:03] <chrisstubbs> shall i clear them all out then rerun the cronjob?
[22:05] <x-f> yes, do it
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[22:05] <chrisstubbs> ok all done, will rerun the cronjob overnight :)
[22:06] <x-f> you are running the fetch-run-cronjob.sh?
[22:07] <chrisstubbs> yeah thats the one
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[22:08] <x-f> chrisstubbs, you could edit the grabdata-cronjob.sh to let it fetch gfs data for just a couple of hours, not the default 180 hours
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[22:08] <x-f> just for a quicker test
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[22:09] <chrisstubbs> thats a fair idea, but going to get some sleep now anyway
[22:09] <chrisstubbs> will see if its working in the morning, thanks guys!
[22:11] <x-f> sure, good night
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[22:34] <KF7FER> Hix: I'm a bit late responding, but nice work on your PCB. I'm not sure what GPS you are using, but if it's a ublox you might want to check out the hardware integration manual. You should be careful about routing traces under the GPS (I try to have nothing but ground under my MAX-6)
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[22:38] <KF7FER> or not... maybe that's an RFM22?
[22:38] <KF7FER> oops
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[23:05] <Hix> I've been looking at "C Programming: A modern approach" by K.N King would any of you recommend it or something else? Already have K&R
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[00:00] --- Sun Jun 9 2013