highaltitude.log.20130605

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[06:01] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning :)
[06:01] <arko> mornin
[06:01] <ibanezmatt13> I'm trying to take pictures using the Pi Cam while transmiting telemetry and the two things are interfering with each other very much
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[06:02] <arko> processor time?
[06:02] <ibanezmatt13> When I'm decoding fine, I try to take a video, and the GPS fails completely and I have to wait a little before restarting the program
[06:02] <arko> or literally rf to camera?
[06:02] <ibanezmatt13> I think rf interference but I'm not sure
[06:02] <arko> brownout?
[06:02] <arko> hmm
[06:03] <ibanezmatt13> so dl-fldigi works fine, I take a video, and the frequency goes all wierd and then the GPS fails
[06:03] <ibanezmatt13> once the video stops, the frequency goes back to normal but by this time the GPS has failed
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[06:03] <cardre> how are you powering the ntx2 and the gps?
[06:04] <cardre> it sounds like you're drawing too much power and they drop out
[06:04] <ibanezmatt13> with power from Pi. GPS = 3.3v, NTX2 = 5v
[06:04] <cardre> you may need to bypass the pi for powering the devices
[06:04] <cardre> but be sure that they have the right voltage being supplied to them
[06:05] <ibanezmatt13> I do have a voltage regulator. But I think I'll wait until it's all on stripboard first
[06:06] <cardre> you need to use a common ground for all devices, but the power for the ntx2 and the gps are likely going to need to come from their own regulators or battery directly, depending on the volatage requirement
[06:06] <ibanezmatt13> I'm trying to download fsphils SSDV repositry
[06:07] <ibanezmatt13> I git clone, cd to it, I run "make", it builds, but then it won't execute the program from the terminal
[06:07] <ibanezmatt13> I run ssdv and it says "command not found"...
[06:08] <x-f> are you "sudo make install"?
[06:08] <ibanezmatt13> no
[06:08] <ibanezmatt13> i thought I just needed make?
[06:08] <x-f> maybe
[06:08] <x-f> are there any new files in that folder after "make"?\
[06:09] <ibanezmatt13> er, don't think so
[06:09] <x-f> mm, should be, though
[06:10] <ibanezmatt13> it worked. Thanks x-f
[06:10] Action: x-f didn't do anything..
[06:10] <ibanezmatt13> sudo make install worked :)
[06:11] <x-f> then we're good :)
[06:13] <ibanezmatt13> anybody know how to configure dl-fldigi for SSDV? Is it just a case of clicking view->SSDV RX?
[06:14] <ibanezmatt13> It's sending packets, receiving stuff, but not showing any packets received on SSDV RX
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[06:17] <ibanezmatt13> is there something I must set in dl-fldigi to recieve SSDV packets?
[06:18] <x-f> afaik it should work automatically, but i have no practical experience with SSDV yet
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[06:18] <ibanezmatt13> hmm
[06:19] <ibanezmatt13> rather bizzare
[06:19] <x-f> does the green bar say anything other than your telemetry sentences?
[06:19] <ibanezmatt13> the program I'm running now doesn't send telemetry at all. Just image data
[06:21] <ibanezmatt13> Can SSDV work with the same RTTY setup?
[06:21] <x-f> yes
[06:21] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, strange
[06:22] <x-f> will have to wait for other UKHASers to wake up
[06:22] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I'll try and sort it later. I'm off to school now. Thanks x-f :) Good day
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[06:23] <x-f> cheers :)
[06:23] <x-f> have a nice day you too
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[07:18] <griffonbot> Received email: Mike Willis "RE: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - HABE 8 (Worcester) - June 8th/9th"
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[08:49] <griffonbot> Received email: gonzo_ "[UKHAS] Stubby vs 1/4 wave"
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[08:54] <cuddykid> oh no.. I seem to have started this
[08:55] <gonzo_> just an interesting bit of technical chatter I hope
[08:56] <cuddykid> yeah, I do wonder why some people say it's drastically different
[08:57] <fsphil> the one upu flew was a fair bit weaker
[08:57] <fsphil> despite being closer to me than most flights
[08:58] <fsphil> it would be great for shorter range
[08:58] <fsphil> I imagine it would be a bit more omnidirectional too
[09:00] <gonzo_> I think that theoretically it should be the same, on TX, but there must be practial differences
[09:00] <daveake> If it's for tracking only, and not going for any distance records, I see no problem in flying one
[09:01] <daveake> Because they're good enough
[09:01] <gonzo_> on RX, the reduced capture area will make it far less effective. But that's where the reciprocal view of antennas (between rx and TX) starts to falter
[09:01] <fsphil> yea. not like tracking at 500km is too useful
[09:01] <cuddykid> daveake: exactly the same view I hold
[09:01] <gonzo_> well, only for you phil!
[09:02] <daveake> Nope all you need to know is where it landed, and yes people will get a 1/4 wave a bit lower, but it's still plenty good enough
[09:02] Nick change: Matt_soton -> mattbrejza
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[09:03] <Babs> ping eroomde
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[09:06] <GW8RAK> But the problem with aerials comes not when one aerial reports S5 and another S4, but when the first one reports S0 and other reports nothing. It's under weak signal conditions where aerials become important. A typical rubber duck will also be heavier than a DIY quarter wave groundplane, so why change?
[09:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Martin Bud "[UKHAS] Spare Chute for sale"
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[09:15] <fsphil> having a little antenna entirely inside the box would be a bit safer. less likely to break on landing
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[09:15] <mattbrejza> attach tin foil to the box and make the whole box the antenna
[09:15] <mattbrejza> i hope you have good anenna sim software though
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[09:18] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning :)
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[09:22] <fsphil> it's a morning at least
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[09:23] <cuddykid> daveake: a couple of questions re-pi power
[09:23] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil have you tried your Pi camera at the same time as your NTX2 and GPS?
[09:23] <fsphil> I've not wired up a gps yet
[09:23] <cuddykid> daveake: how many batts do you use to power your pi? I tried 8AAs the other day (alkaline however) and only got about 2.5hrs out of them - yes, I know I'd get more from lithiums but still don't want to be pushing it incase launch gets delayed on ground
[09:23] <ibanezmatt13> ah right. It's just, I was running my telemetry program this morning and every time I took a picture or video, the GPS basically failed
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[09:24] <cuddykid> daveake: also - been thinking about running flight computer from 5v output of pi for simplicity - however, I guess you're going to tell me that's an awful idea :P
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[09:25] <fsphil> your pi isn't the flight computer?
[09:25] <cuddykid> fsphil: no - just using it for SSDV
[09:25] <cuddykid> all the GPS/radio is on another pcb
[09:26] <fsphil> the pi doesn't have a 5v regulator
[09:26] <fsphil> you could just take power from whatever is powering the pi
[09:26] <cuddykid> yeah, that's why I think it might be a bad idea
[09:26] <fsphil> then you've less to worry about
[09:26] <cuddykid> as the voltage could drop too low for the 3v3 reg on my other pcb
[09:26] <cuddykid> yeah
[09:26] <cuddykid> might end up going for 10AAs to power both
[09:27] <gonzo_> ouch
[09:27] <daveake> 10 ????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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[09:29] <LazyLeopard> Sheesh! My portable rig manages on 8 ;)
[09:29] <SpeedEvil> I power my house on 12.
[09:29] <x-f_> 18V, that is actually dangerous to your life
[09:29] <SpeedEvil> (*) may be a lie.
[09:29] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: when you used your pi cam for your flight, did it ever interfere with the GPS and NTX2?
[09:29] <LazyLeopard> ...and the RockMite (if only I could crack Morse) manages on a PP3 . ;)
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[09:30] <fsphil> meow
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[09:30] Possible future nick collision: x-f
[09:30] <LazyLeopard> and lo! the kittens pounced!
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[09:30] <fsphil> could be puppies this time
[09:30] Nick change: arko_ -> 5EXAAQTO8
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[09:30] <Babs> cuddykid - once you are up to 10 you might as well use the new trent that I used http://www.newtrent.com/store/iphone-external-battery-iphone-portable-battery.html
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[09:30] <LazyLeopard> widdling on the wires? could be. ;)
[09:31] <Babs> it has epic amounts of capacity and two built in USB power ports
[09:32] Nick change: priyesh -> priyesh_
[09:32] <fsphil> I need one of those for my HTC
[09:32] Nick change: priyesh_ -> priyesh__
[09:32] Nick change: priyesh__ -> priyesh
[09:33] <fsphil> hehe, 13,500mAh
[09:33] <Babs> they are awesome fsphil. I powered the SLR for 1600 photos off it during BABSHAB's dawdle to the stratosphere, and it only went down a quarter of the way (i.e. I could have done the same thing with a far smaller battery). It would have powered the go pro and the tracker
[09:33] <Babs> and it was only a desire not to put too many eggs in one battery driven basket that made me separate them out
[09:34] <fsphil> wise
[09:34] <cuddykid> lol
[09:34] <cuddykid> daveake: how many do you use?
[09:34] <cuddykid> my concern was that 8AAs (although alkaline) drained far too fast
[09:34] <cuddykid> they were fairly cheap shitty ones though
[09:35] <fsphil> how did you have these wired up?
[09:35] <mattbrejza> you should be able to work out fairly accurately how long itll last from current draw
[09:36] <fsphil> and which model Pi?
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[09:37] <fsphil> there's quite a difference between A and B
[09:37] <Babs> fsphil - you could use the spare mAh to power a kettle to make a celebratory cup of tea from the capsule when you found it. That would be qaulity.
[09:37] <Babs> *quality even
[09:37] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: yes and no
[09:37] <fsphil> lol
[09:37] <daveake> You should be around the 200mA mark for a model A tracker
[09:37] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: you can disable the USB side - or place it in standby - with an echo
[09:37] <fsphil> use the extra power to drive some wheels
[09:38] <Babs> using a GPS to drive it back to your house
[09:38] <SpeedEvil> but there is no benefit, other than one extra USB port
[09:38] <SpeedEvil> and Ethernet
[09:38] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: I ran my telemetry program this morning along with the Pi Cam. Everything was fine until the Pi Cam took some pictures. Then the GPS failed and the NTX2 frequency went all over the place. RF interferece perhaps? Did you have this issue on your flight?
[09:38] <Babs> Fly the balloon and then get it to drive back itself, brilliant
[09:38] <SpeedEvil> but if you need Ethernet, you're probably doing it wrong.
[09:38] <SpeedEvil> whatever it is.
[09:38] <SpeedEvil> Babs: I had a better idea.
[09:39] <SpeedEvil> Babs: add a glider, and have it fly into post boxes
[09:39] <Babs> go on speedevil
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[09:39] <Babs> nice. lateral thinking is the way forward.
[09:39] <fsphil> SpeeDevil .. hehe, never noticed that before
[09:39] <fsphil> </easily amused>
[09:40] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: someone mentioned it in the pi channel a bit AFO
[09:40] <SpeedEvil> ago
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[09:50] <ibanezmatt13> daveake1: did you ever have any problems with interference with the Pi Cam? When I'm running my RTTY, if I take a video, the GPS pretty much fails and the NTX2 goes all over the place.
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[09:59] <daveake1> ibanezmatt13 You need more powwwwer
[09:59] <ibanezmatt13> I thought that it would be fine plugged into the mains
[09:59] <ibanezmatt13> You mean I should power one of the components off the batteries as opposed to the Pi?
[10:00] <fsphil> noise on the ntx2 is often caused by a struggling PSU or voltage regulator
[10:00] <fsphil> struggling, or cheap
[10:00] <cuddykid> fsphil: using model B and had my other pcb (GPS/radio) hooked up onto the pi via 5V output on pi
[10:01] <fsphil> the B consumes quite a bit more power than the A unless you do what SpeedEvil mentioned
[10:01] <fsphil> the ethernet chip is a big drain
[10:01] <ibanezmatt13> That makes sense, everything was being powered by the Pi. I'll probably power the GPS and radio separately. And yes, I have been using a model B, not got a Model A yet
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[10:01] <ibanezmatt13> I believe the model has no ethernet does it not?
[10:02] <ibanezmatt13> model A*
[10:02] <fsphil> yep
[10:02] <ibanezmatt13> Well, off for break now. Should be finishing school for good either tomorrow or Friday. Have a good day :)
[10:03] <fsphil> don't need ethernet at 30km :)
[10:03] <fsphil> that would be a lot of cats
[10:03] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: Yeah, is there an easy way to disable the GPU as well?
[10:03] <fsphil> dont' think the GPU does much if it boots into text mode
[10:03] <fsphil> or even graphics mode probably
[10:03] <ibanezmatt13> ah that's ok then
[10:03] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks, see you later :)
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[10:05] Nick change: DanielRi1hman -> DanielRichman
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[10:31] <domlin> hii
[10:35] <griffonbot> @NSEballoon: @EssexHam Planning a PicoCheapo launch for the 14th June @ 4PM http://t.co/RTebzUYY43 #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/NSEballoon/status/342228229651845122]
[10:37] <x-f> CheaPico
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[10:54] <chrisstubbs> x-f I like the name
[10:55] <domlin> cheapoo
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[10:57] Nick change: Brace_ -> Brace
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[11:01] <cuddykid> lots of HAB stuff in the post today :D
[11:01] <cuddykid> styrofoam hot knife has arrived
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[11:07] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Stubby vs 1/4 wave"
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[11:09] <fsphil> still no post here
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[11:28] <Babs> oooooo, shiny HAB stuff for me too
[11:28] <Babs> * that ooooo was not written in the style of John Inman, for anyone who was wondering
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[11:30] <SpeedEvil> I was thinking father Jack.
[11:30] <Babs> shiny shiny http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8958570596/
[11:30] <Babs> feck
[11:31] <eroomde> toys for pointing?
[11:32] <Babs> yo eroomde
[11:32] <Babs> exactly
[11:33] <Babs> reading up on it all, the words "kalman filter" come up frequently
[11:33] <Babs> Now I understand its not a cigarette component
[11:34] <Babs> I have a question on filters, just a conceptual one before I attack it all in earnest
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> It makes for a smooth smoke.
[11:34] <Babs> so, as I understand it, you measure a position at the start of everything which you assume is correct
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> No.
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> You measure a position, and an estimated error.
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> You start out with a gaussian distribution about your measured position
[11:35] <Babs> and then measure a position a small time t later using an accelerometer (which is confusing in terms of a name as it actually measures force, and I kow f=ma but still, they should just call it a force meter)
[11:36] <Babs> that position may or may not be correct
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> It's not a force meter.
[11:36] <Babs> i know speedevil, it is just easy for my tiny mind
[11:36] <Babs> and you use the gyro to correct for that position measurement
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> As I understand it.
[11:37] <Babs> but there must be an error at time t + a little bit, since the gyro correction must itself have a small error in surely?
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> You have an initial pointing, position, velocity, and their corresponding uncertainties.
[11:37] <Babs> so what stops these small errors building up (even after correction) into one large error some large time T further down the road?
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> Nothing
[11:38] <SpeedEvil> The idea is that you combine all the input from all the sensors in order to make the best possible position.
[11:38] <SpeedEvil> If you have no absolute sensors - such as GPS or magnetometers - you cannot avoid infinite drift.
[11:38] <SpeedEvil> Gryo + magnetometer + accellerometer lets you work out orientation unambiguously.
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[11:39] <Babs> So on that basis, does this mean that after an hour or so of not being in contact with something being pointed, even with an accelerometer and a gyro, it might actually not be pointing in the direction it thinks it is
[11:39] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[11:39] <SpeedEvil> The maxim gyro specified a .45 degree an hour random walk
[11:39] <Babs> because all of the errors have built up
[11:40] <SpeedEvil> So - if everything has gone just right - you will likely be that mcuh out.
[11:40] <Babs> .45 degree is ok
[11:40] <SpeedEvil> You'll be pointed that far off.
[11:40] <Babs> does the magnometer drift too?
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[11:40] <SpeedEvil> For different reasons. The magnetic field of earth is not quite constant.
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[11:41] <Babs> or can you use it to periodically reset the direction the board thinks it is pointing in to the correct direction?
[11:41] <SpeedEvil> In addition to varying over space, it varies over time.
[11:41] <SpeedEvil> That's the point of a kalman filter.
[11:41] <SpeedEvil> The magnetometer has a high certainty that the magnetic field is pointing in a certain direction
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[11:42] <Babs> so i read that the kalman corrects for a varying amount over time, the variance is related to the magnetic field drift?
[11:42] <SpeedEvil> The filter lets you take the accellerometer and gyro to take this limited information, and transform it into more generally useful information on your course on the earths surface
[11:42] <SpeedEvil> Eventually.
[11:42] <Babs> as in the kalman's ability to correct varies over time
[11:43] <SpeedEvil> Over a long period, if you are not constrained by anything else, the directional uncertainty will be limited by the magnetic field uncertainty.
[11:43] <Babs> ahh, ok. Thats a great help. Thanks Speedevil. I think eroomde was mooting doing a short primer on it at the HAB conference, that would be interesting
[11:43] <SpeedEvil> But this may be better than the minute to minute measurement error of the magnetic field, as the gyro helps.
[11:44] <fsphil> does it help then adding another gyro?
[11:44] <SpeedEvil> If, for example, the magnetometer reports that it's 5 degrees out for a couple of minutes due to a local bit of iron, you can basically ignore it, as the gyro is more accurate short term
[11:44] <Babs> in the meantime http://www.starlino.com/imu_guide.html is quite interesting
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: random walk drops with 1/sqrt(n) gyros. Add a hundred gyros, and drop the random walk to a tenth.
[11:45] <Babs> being called away, thanks speedevil i really appreciate it
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> np.
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> Please note, my understanding of the details are wooly.
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> I've never done a kalman filter.
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: the concept of a payload with a hundred gyros amuses me.
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[11:46] <SpeedEvil> I think it would let you gyrocompass to within about a couple of degrees of latitude. (once on the ground)
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[11:47] <Geoff-G8DHE__> the magnetic declination varies both by location and height see http://magnetic-declination.com/ for ground level
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> yep
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> Spherical harmonics ++
[11:47] <Geoff-G8DHE__> your talking a couple of degrees around the UK
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> More during magnetic storms
[11:48] <Geoff-G8DHE__> Oh yes inded!
[11:48] <Geoff-G8DHE__> *indeed
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> http://aurorawatch.lancs.ac.uk/livedata
[11:51] <Laurenceb> taulabs/openpilot have ported USGS worldmagneticmodel
[11:51] <Laurenceb> so it runs on stm32 and "only" uses a few tens of KB
[11:52] <Laurenceb> input position+time and it outputs field estimate
[11:53] <Laurenceb> atm you need to recompile with new data files aiui
[11:53] <Laurenceb> there was a plan to add easy uploading of new models.. im not up to speed with developments
[11:57] <Laurenceb> i was benchmarking it in my house with poor gps lock
[11:57] <Laurenceb> the heading was <2degrees off with ~0.5degree rms "walk"
[11:58] <Laurenceb> using an OS map and aligning a calibrated board with landmarks
[12:00] <fsphil> ah ha, things have arrived
[12:00] <fsphil> got the vreg for the pi
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[12:21] <eroomde> sorry was away Babs
[12:21] <eroomde> if you come and visit westcott I'll give you the DL
[12:23] Nick change: nick___ -> nick_
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[12:23] <Laurenceb> interestingly openpilot used a simpler complimentary filter on CC3D
[12:24] <Laurenceb> but taulabs are now back to using an EKF
[12:24] <eroomde> EKF is basically Correct for embedded things
[12:24] <eroomde> things are usually gaussian enough for you to get away with
[12:24] <eroomde> things are usually linear enough for you to linearise
[12:24] <Laurenceb> there are epic damaz between openpilot and taulabs
[12:24] <eroomde> (or not as the case may be)
[12:24] <eroomde> i suspect i will be not in the least interested in them
[12:25] <griffonbot> Received email: Mike Willis "Re: [UKHAS] Stubby vs 1/4 wave"
[12:25] <Laurenceb> https://code.google.com/p/vrgimbal/
[12:25] <Laurenceb> ^ eclipse problem solved
[12:27] <Laurenceb> id like to see some torque plots of a rewound brushless motor
[12:28] <Laurenceb> they almost look suitable for rockoon launchers
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[12:34] <SpeedEvil> why rewpu
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> rewound?
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> you mean as steppers?
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[12:36] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:37] <Laurenceb> its how those gimbals are made
[12:37] <Laurenceb> yo dawg, we heard you like piss poor ideas....
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[12:50] <cuddykid> 2 h2 cylinders should be arriving tomorrow :)
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[12:53] <griffonbot> Received email: Joe "Re: [UKHAS] Stubby vs 1/4 wave"
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[13:32] <K9JKM> ... watching at aprs.fi for BASE 72 W9YJ-11 ... launch planned for 1400 UTC
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[14:13] <x-f> http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20130605.png
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[14:15] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[14:16] <mfa298> I'm so implimenting that on a website sometime.
[14:16] <mfa298> probably along with shibolet
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[15:58] <ibanezmatt13> Good afternoon :) I've just finished high school for good. Can't believe it
[15:59] <nigelvh_> Damn, I'm only 24 and things like this make me feel old.
[15:59] <ibanezmatt13> Haha :)
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[16:00] <nigelvh_> I run into it a bunch too. I volunteer with a few classes at the local University, and I'm starting to hear students use slang that I don't know the meaning of&.
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[16:02] <ibanezmatt13> nigelvh_: slang? :) haha
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[16:06] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: reading bits of scroll back from when I've not been around it sounds like you could do with noting down some of what's said as it looks like you keep asking the same questions.
[16:07] <ibanezmatt13> You're probably right. I've started noting things down. Sorry about that.
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[16:09] <mfa298> it's ok, just saves people getting annoyed answering the same questions again.
[16:09] <mfa298> also one thing that might be worth doing with your code is add in some debug lines that you can easily turn on and off.
[16:10] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean running the program from different places?
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[16:10] <mfa298> easiest way of doing it might be to have something like "debug=false" near the top of your code and then have some lines like "if debug print blah"
[16:11] <ibanezmatt13> that's a good idea. I'll probably do that, thanks :)
[16:11] <mfa298> effectivly it's just a set of print statements you can turn on and off with a variable
[16:11] <mfa298> so when you want debugging data you set debug=true at the top
[16:11] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, much easier than printing all sorts of different statements, great idea
[16:12] <mfa298> if you want to get more complex you can have different levels with numbers "if debug >2 print blah"
[16:12] <ibanezmatt13> Would that just involve using an incrementing variable in different instances?
[16:13] <mfa298> you can then leave those debug print statements in the code so they're already in place when you need to debug an issue.
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[16:14] <mfa298> yep, I'd tend to have basic debug lines with level 1 "Getting Data from GPS, Getting SSDV image, Sending packet", level 2 might show a bit more detail "GPS data is: + NEMA_Sentence"
[16:15] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I need to do more things like that. I've been having a rethink on my code. If I include SSDV, GPS, and RTTY in one python program, should I have a function for each? i.e, a function to read gps, a function to packetise, and a function to send
[16:15] <ibanezmatt13> I think it would look more organised
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[16:15] <mfa298> making the code look organised is always a good thing.
[16:16] <ibanezmatt13> I have been having one big problem with the GPS though...
[16:16] <mfa298> functions are generally good.
[16:16] <mfa298> I saw in the scroll back you'de had a couple of issues with it
[16:17] <ibanezmatt13> If something interferes with it and it reboots, I have an if statement which prints invalid sentence if the GPS doesn't return anything worthy of sending. However, it continues like this indefinitely. However, if I end the program and restart it, it's fine
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[16:17] <ibanezmatt13> I thought it would keep looping until it got a succesful sentence
[16:19] <mfa298> that's where having debug lines like I suggested, at present with what I remember of your code you can't tell if the code isn't reading data from GPS (so stops on the gps.readline) or gets bad data so doesn't send anything and loops back to the readline
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[16:20] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5694404
[16:21] <ibanezmatt13> I can't see why it should do that though.
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[16:21] <mfa298> question to ask yourself with that code is what will you see happen if the string from GPS isn't valid.
[16:22] <ibanezmatt13> it should print "invalid sentence" I'm sorry, I've modified the code since then with loads of print statements
[16:22] <ibanezmatt13> I'll update it later when I get home
[16:22] <mfa298> that's good.
[16:23] <ibanezmatt13> Where it says "pass" on the two if statements, they now say "print invalid sentence" and "print no lock"
[16:23] <mfa298> excellent
[16:23] <mfa298> having your code tell you what it's doing can be very useful.
[16:24] <ibanezmatt13> but even when it repeeatedly prints "invalid sentence" it never gets back to a valid sentence
[16:24] <ibanezmatt13> Now if I close then re-run the program, it works straight away
[16:24] <ibanezmatt13> That's what I don't understand
[16:24] Nick change: 5EXAAQTO8 -> arko
[16:26] <mfa298> what you might want to do is also print out the sentence you're getting
[16:26] <ibanezmatt13> I did that too. It printed out a load of rubbish repeatedly. Windings and stuff like that
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[16:28] <mfa298> which might suggest something odd is happening with how it's recieving data so you might need to reset something for the gps.
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[16:29] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, not sure what I would reset. Maybe the commands I send at the start to filter out the sentence I want
[16:29] <mfa298> maybe have a think about what you do to the gps when you start the program which won't happen if it reboots
[16:29] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: that's part of it. There might also be a reset command you can send to the gps
[16:30] <ibanezmatt13> I'll shall Google it. See if there's anything about the ublox
[16:31] <ibanezmatt13> Ooh, off out for a meal now. :) Celebrations for succesfully completing compulsory education. See you later :) And thanks once again
[16:31] <mfa298> here's the sort of thing I was suggesting for the debug lines http://pastie.org/private/x3t44sikweeukf97szbng
[16:32] <ibanezmatt13> I'll read it now
[16:32] Nick change: MichaelC1 -> MichaelC
[16:32] <ibanezmatt13> I see, that's quite clever
[16:33] <ibanezmatt13> I've gotta dash, I'll be on later around 9ish
[16:33] <mfa298> means when you don't want the debug information you just change the debug value rather than having to delete lots of lines
[16:33] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks for the support mfa298 :)
[16:33] <ibanezmatt13> makes perfect sense
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[18:16] <Guest79872> Received email: Mike Willis "RE: [UKHAS] Re: Stubby vs 1/4 wave"
[18:20] anerDev (~anerDev@host119-55-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #highaltitude.
[18:21] <anerDev> hi guys
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[18:46] <chrisstubbs> evening anerDev
[18:46] <anerDev> hello chrisstubbs
[18:46] <anerDev> I'm making the cad of my payload
[18:46] <chrisstubbs> ah cool
[18:46] <anerDev> would you like to watch ?
[18:46] <chrisstubbs> schematic/pcb or 3d model?
[18:47] <anerDev> nope
[18:47] <anerDev> the polystyrene box cad
[18:47] <chrisstubbs> Heh: http://i.imgur.com/0KciwyP.png
[18:47] <chrisstubbs> ah cool, yeah go for it if you have a photo
[18:48] <anerDev> or you like cad file ?
[18:48] <chrisstubbs> Just gopt with a screenshot
[18:48] <anerDev> http://d.pr/i/c9UI
[18:49] <chrisstubbs> may not have the software you are using etc
[18:49] Lunar_Lander (~gd-compto@p54888EA0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:49] <chrisstubbs> ah AutoCAD :)
[18:49] <anerDev> hello Lunar_Lander
[18:49] <anerDev> yes
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> I would like to apply for the "Stupidiest Champion of the Week"
[18:49] <chrisstubbs> haha what have you done Lunar_Lander?
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> reason: installed a BMP085 sensor, not responding
[18:49] <anerDev> lol
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> cause: did solder SCL and SDA but forgot VCC and GND
[18:50] <chrisstubbs> haha
[18:50] <anerDev> guys, sorry, we meet between 20 min :/
[18:50] <anerDev> hauh
[18:50] <chrisstubbs> catch you later anerDev
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[18:51] <daveake> LL: You win again :P
[18:52] Nick change: zyp_ -> zyp
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[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> xD thanks
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> but I wondered about something
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[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> got a code based on the "Datalogger" example of the SD library
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[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> uploaded it to the arduino let it run and got a blank SD
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> uploaded the example as such and get a file as advertised
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> uploaded the first code again and this time there is a file and everything works
[18:57] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, could it be that the first program did not create the file, but the second program did?
[18:57] <chrisstubbs> then the thrid had a file to write to, so worked
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> no, formatted the card inbetween
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. formatted it before each run
[18:59] <chrisstubbs> Hm odd, maybe it just didnt program correctly
[18:59] <Guest79872> Received email: Joe "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Stubby vs 1/4 wave"
[19:00] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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[19:00] <chrisstubbs> Lol I think there was a bit of a mix up on the mailing list today
[19:01] <chrisstubbs> pretty sure someone got "stubby andtenna" and "chris stubbs" confused at one point :P
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> Do you have a stubby antenna?
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> LOL
[19:01] <chrisstubbs> errrr
[19:02] <chrisstubbs> a few 2.4GHz ones maybe :P
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[19:05] <chrisstubbs> yay got all the little bits on my wish list I couldn't afford last month
[19:05] <chrisstubbs> depressing when you cant even afford heat shrink and marker pens
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[19:06] <Upu> my next payload is going to use chrisstubbs as an antenna
[19:06] <chrisstubbs> Do it!
[19:07] <chrisstubbs> will probably be more effective than the cheapo v1
[19:07] <Upu> you could have attached a soggy beer mat to that and gotton better performance
[19:07] <chrisstubbs> XD
[19:07] <Upu> lol
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[19:08] <chrisstubbs> I am going to take some kit in tommorow for these RFM22B tests
[19:08] <LeoBodnar> Hi guys
[19:08] Action: SpeedEvil ponders freeze distillation at altitude.
[19:08] <Upu> evening Leo
[19:08] <chrisstubbs> Was thinking 10 cycled from +20c to -50c. Is there anything else you think I can be testing while im there upu?
[19:09] <chrisstubbs> *10 cycles
[19:09] <Upu> over time
[19:09] <Upu> they don't tend to break on short duration
[19:09] <Upu> it seems to be the cold soak that does it
[19:10] <chrisstubbs> Ah right okay
[19:10] <LeoBodnar> We are going to launch an almost guaranteed flop tomorrow or on Friday. Total payload is 45 grams total. I can't find any guide on how to book a flight on habitat.
[19:10] <chrisstubbs> overnight maybe?
[19:10] <Upu> hey LeoBodnar do you have a telemetry string thats parsing and going green in dl-fldigi ?
[19:10] <chrisstubbs> In that case I will drop it down to 5 cycles as I imagine they might get a bit annoyed about me using their chambers all day :P
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[19:11] <Upu> its generally the long duration flights that have the issues
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[19:11] <chrisstubbs> Right okay will try and get a bit of both in then :)
[19:12] <LeoBodnar> Upu, yes, I have also managed to somehow acquire HELIOS name by randomly clicking in dl-fldigi :(
[19:12] <chrisstubbs> Can anyone think of a reasonable method for monitoring when the rfm22b dies, I was thinking about using the SDR and just leave a screen recorder running on the waterfall
[19:12] <Upu> lol
[19:12] <Upu> can you paste a sample string ?
[19:13] <daveake> chrisstubbs Record the audio stream
[19:14] <chrisstubbs> Thats a fair idea daveake, Suppose I could set the bandwidth of the audio output nice and wide on sdr# so it dosent drift ouyt
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[19:14] <LeoBodnar_> Upu, $$B-1,43,19:14:20,52.12964,-0.99132,146,8,3.22,34*A8DC
[19:15] <Upu> ok
[19:15] <Upu> Go here : http://habitat.habhub.org/
[19:15] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: I think at most dl-fldigi only does 4khz (default is 3)
[19:15] <Upu> Click Genpayload
[19:15] <LeoBodnar> SAT#, Voltage, Temperature*chcksum
[19:15] <Upu> now this is a two step process, firstly you define the payload configuration, you can then check you're appearing on the map
[19:16] <Upu> secondly you do a flight document which needs to be approved but lets get the payload doc correct first
[19:16] <Upu> so click create new
[19:16] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, I am really just looking for what time the radio drops out, not too worried about data as the thing will be hooked up to a datalogger anyway with thermocouples
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[19:16] <Upu> and work through it
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[19:16] <LeoBodnar> in dl-dldigi?
[19:16] <Upu> http://habitat.habhub.org/
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[19:17] <Upu> Genpayload
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[19:17] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: my initial thought was to just to have a video cam recording the screen. But your screen capture idea is probably better than that
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[19:19] <LeoBodnar> OK, I'll be back!
[19:19] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, I have thought of both, screen cap software seems to use a lot of memory
[19:19] <Upu> once you're done upload a few sentences and lets see if you're on the map, if you're not we'll work out why
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[19:20] <LeoBodnar> Any suggestions for Tx frequency?
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[19:21] <Upu> if you're frequency agile whatever you fancy
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[19:21] <LeoBodnar> OK
[19:21] <Upu> you can always amend the document later and currently its not used anywhere*
[19:21] <Upu> * I think
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[19:22] <Upu> I think the idea is you can auto tune your rig based on the payload document but its not implemented yet
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[19:23] <fsphil> must give that a go
[19:23] <fsphil> there isn't much to it I don't think
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[19:28] Nick change: MichaelC1 -> MichaelC
[19:29] <LeoBodnar> I have filed the format doc online
[19:29] <Upu> so you have
[19:29] <Upu> right first time
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[19:29] <Upu> check http://spacenear.us/tracker/
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[19:30] Nick change: lbm -> Guest55852
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[19:30] <Upu> ok now you have done that you can test away
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[19:30] <Upu> however if you're planning on doing a launch you need to do 2 things
[19:31] <Upu> 1/ Go back to http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/ and click create new flight document
[19:31] <Upu> once done it will give you an ID
[19:31] <Upu> copy this and then join #habhub and ask for it to be approved
[19:31] <Upu> 2/ Mail the mailing list with details of the launch so you get lots of listeners
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[19:32] <Upu> put on est burst alt and est ascent rates etc so we can set up the live predictions for you
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[19:32] Action: Upu wonders if freenode will sort itself out
[19:33] <LeoBodnar> OK, I will try this step by step, will come back with more questions! Thanks for your help so far! :)
[19:33] <Upu> no problems not going anywhere :)
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[19:34] <oh7lzb> we're getting quite a DDOS, 3 out of 4 DNS servers went down due to it
[19:34] <Upu> aprs.fi ?
[19:34] <oh7lzb> ... one being hosted by myself, so aprs.fi went down too
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[19:34] <oh7lzb> freenode is getting the DDOS at its DNS servers
[19:35] <nigelvh_> That sucks
[19:35] <Upu> why would someone DDOS freenode ?
[19:35] Nick change: oh7lzb -> Hes
[19:35] <nigelvh_> Because idiots/jerks/because
[19:35] <eroomde> there's nothing like finding a spot treatment that works for you
[19:35] <eroomde> according to a lady on the tv
[19:35] <eroomde> she's perhaps technically correct
[19:35] <eroomde> but she should still kill herself
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[19:36] <Upu> lol
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[19:36] <LeoBodnar> We have 30" balloon with 50g payload, do we need CAA approval?
[19:36] <Upu> foil balloon ?
[19:37] <LeoBodnar> No, some jumbo party balloon :)
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[19:37] Nick change: [1]Geoff-G8DHE -> Geoff-G8DHE
[19:37] <Upu> the rule is
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[19:38] <Upu> to launch without a NOTAM the whole lot can't exceed 2 meters at any time
[19:38] <Upu> so imagine a 2 meter sphere
[19:38] <Upu> everything has to fit in it
[19:38] <Upu> now trouble is your balloon will expand
[19:38] <Upu> at launch its 80cms
[19:39] <Hes> Freenode is providing too good service to charitable open source groups, what's a more appropriate DDOS target?
[19:39] <Upu> I doubt there is any data for how large it will get at altitude
[19:39] <Upu> I can think of a few Hes :)
[19:40] <LeoBodnar> It looks like it will burst hardly when more than 1.5m dia
[19:40] <chrisstubbs> so technically you need a NOTAM to launch one of those silly solar ballons
[19:40] <chrisstubbs> they are about 6m3 iirc
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[19:42] <Upu> and to comply you may need to get the tracker in the neck of the balloon
[19:42] <LeoBodnar> If balloon bursts on the surface when it is 1.5m dia, would it burst up there when it expands to the same size?
[19:42] <Upu> any pictures of your tracker ? Always interested to see what people come up with
[19:43] <Upu> probably
[19:44] <LeoBodnar> Tracker is here: http://leobodnar.com/files/IMG_1209.jpg We are flying with unpopulated GSM module this time
[19:44] <LeoBodnar> Back side http://leobodnar.com/files/IMG_1211.jpg
[19:44] <Upu> very tidy
[19:44] <Upu> whats the radio ?
[19:45] <Upu> I guess you do PCB's for a living then ?
[19:45] <Upu> ah yes
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[19:46] <LeoBodnar> Yes :) It's Si4032 but it will be replaced on the new revision. It was a quick bodge to get it up there quick :)
[19:46] <Upu> Interesting
[19:46] <Upu> Si4464 ?
[19:47] <LeoBodnar> Planned replacement is Si4060
[19:51] <Upu> when you're not so busy I'd love to chat to you about that, I have a design but I'd like to pass it by someone who has a working one
[19:51] <Upu> whats the microcontroller on there (last question honest!)
[19:53] <LeoBodnar> Keep going it's my pleasure! :) It's PIC24FJ series because it has a USB port
[19:55] <Upu> looks great going to be very interested to see how that Si4032 works, I'm redoing the RFM22B as its EOL now I think that uses Si4032 as well
[19:56] <Upu> no idea what altitude that balloon will get too
[19:56] <Upu> the 36" foils get to 5km
[19:56] <LeoBodnar> Just spin your own design based on Si products directly! The biggest chore is programming them from host MCU but you must have gone through this already anyway.
[19:57] <Upu> well I have done it was just the output filter I wasn't sure about as never done one
[19:57] <Upu> but I think it will work
[19:57] <Upu> I should stop prevaricating and just get on and make it
[19:58] <nigelvh_> Upu, look at LTspiceIV and put in the values from any random online LPF calculator
[19:58] <Upu> yeah done it
[19:58] <Upu> it looks ok
[19:58] <nigelvh_> That's what KT5TK and I have done.
[19:58] <Upu> I'll just get on and design it
[19:59] <LeoBodnar> Has anybody used these 3.6v lithium batteries? http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1972508
[19:59] <Upu> the PCB that is
[19:59] <nigelvh_> Not those ones specifically, but we've used other 3.6V lithium primaries.
[19:59] <LeoBodnar> Si App notes have all the required component values and even PCB layout if you stick to 434MHz band.
[19:59] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/ideas:power_supply
[19:59] <Upu> Stick with tried and trusted Energizer Lithiums
[20:00] <Upu> use a step up
[20:00] <Upu> you should still get 12 hours from a single AA
[20:01] <nigelvh_> Yeah, I need to make my next revision 3.3V. My 5V board doesn't run well on 1AA
[20:01] <nigelvh_> Too far to boost with much current.
[20:01] <WILLdude_> Hi Upu.
[20:01] <Upu> is that 5V ?
[20:01] <Upu> hey WILLdude_
[20:01] <WILLdude_> I got a detention for forgetting to solve 2 sets of simultaneous equations for y.
[20:01] <Upu> Ah to be at school
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> OK
[20:02] <WILLdude_> And the people who didn't even do it, got one too,
[20:02] <nigelvh_> My current version of the board was 5V with a 3.3V reg for the emitter.
[20:02] <nigelvh_> I need to just drop everything down to 3.3V
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[20:02] <Upu> I generally run at 1.8V
[20:02] <WILLdude_> Seriously, that guy makes me want to cut myself.
[20:02] <WILLdude_> Well, I did.
[20:02] <Upu> I have some MAX7C's coming soon
[20:03] <nigelvh_> Yeah, 1.8 is good, but it's harder to find parts to do everything.
[20:03] <Upu> WILLdude no emo on channel pls
[20:03] <Upu> yeah I know
[20:03] <nigelvh_> 3.3 is a good one.
[20:03] <WILLdude_> Soz
[20:03] <Upu> TCXO and stuff
[20:03] <Upu> the MAX7C uses way less power at 3.3v
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[20:06] <nigelvh_> Yeah
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[20:10] <chrisstubbs> Does anyone know of a reliable lightweight screen recorder for windows? Something you could happily leave recording all night on a reasonably low power PC without it crashing.
[20:10] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[20:10] <Upu> evening Brian
[20:10] <chrisstubbs> Camstudio seems to make massive files and i can imagine this crashing on a 5 hour test
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> do you actually need more than occasional screenshots?
[20:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi Anthony. FYI my GP9 is now mounted. Im hab ready again
[20:11] <Upu> super :)
[20:11] <Upu> will have to send some your way :)
[20:11] <chrisstubbs> SpeedEvil, a screen shot every 10 seconds could work i guess
[20:11] <chrisstubbs> will record the audio in audacity or something too as a failsafe
[20:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes sounds like a good idea. Also seems i have alot better take off to west now, i hear alot more from west Denmark now, then i did at my old qth
[20:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i hear repeaters i only heard during tropo, from the old qth. So looks good for north sea dir
[20:15] <Upu> weathers not been right for picos recvently
[20:15] <Upu> recently
[20:15] <LeoBodnar> How much notice do the flight docs need? We are planning to launch this Friday.
[20:15] <eroomde> asap to give someone a chance to approve it
[20:15] <Upu> just pop on and get it approved
[20:16] <eroomde> realitically, 6 hours if it's in uk awake time
[20:16] <Upu> you can set it for Friday with 3 days surrounding and get it approved now
[20:17] <Upu> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/1429_trj001.gif
[20:17] <Upu> perfect if it floated @ 5km
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[20:18] <eroomde> seriously high stakes
[20:19] <OZ1SKY_Brian> that should be readable from here
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[20:19] <Upu> your sarcasm is noted Ed
[20:19] <Upu> :)
[20:19] <eroomde> no!
[20:19] <eroomde> honestly i meant that
[20:19] <eroomde> as in, you have to get it just right
[20:19] <Upu> oh I thought you were being silly
[20:20] <eroomde> not on this occassion
[20:20] <fsphil> the air between those two layers is going to be fun
[20:20] <eroomde> yes, it might even just sit still
[20:20] <Upu> I don't think you can get them that accurate
[20:20] <Upu> also 5km is burst region
[20:20] <anerDev> guys, here I'm
[20:20] <Upu> woo
[20:20] <anerDev> chrisstubbs can I send to you the autocad file ?
[20:21] <chrisstubbs> Errr let me check if i have it on this pc STILL
[20:21] <chrisstubbs> Yeah I do
[20:23] <LeoBodnar> So can we change the launch time when approved? and how?
[20:23] <Upu> it doesn't have to be accurate LeoBodnar
[20:23] <Upu> its just an approximation
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[20:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Also seems to be better in direction sweden, hear a few of those repeaters as well, and one german. Nothing from Norway heard yet
[20:32] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Surely nothing from uk, thats to far far away
[20:34] <anerDev> anyone would like to watch my polystirene box autocad scheme ? :/
[20:35] <chrisstubbs> Thought I would buy myself some better quality microUSB cables for use with the pi and charging my phone etc in the hope they would be a lower resistance. This one dosent even make a connection on the power lines :P
[20:36] <chrisstubbs> go for it anerDev
[20:36] <anerDev> image or cad file ?
[20:36] <chrisstubbs> Image
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[20:37] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: that sounds a bit like some of the microusb cables I've bought.
[20:37] <anerDev> http://d.pr/i/Yceb
[20:37] <chrisstubbs> Yeah, ebay cant be trusted
[20:37] <chrisstubbs> Cant bring myself to buy one from maplin/pcworld though
[20:37] <anerDev> like a little boy bomb ! LOL
[20:37] <mfa298> mine came from the amazon market place. I order some 2m ones and got 1m ones that don't work
[20:37] <chrisstubbs> Haha, what are the different layers anerDev?
[20:38] <eroomde> looks good though anerDev
[20:38] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, aha good old china :)
[20:38] <anerDev> the circle are the top view
[20:38] <anerDev> in the bottom there are side view
[20:38] <LeoBodnar> I have booked Friday launch.
[20:38] <eroomde> anerDev: what about this for a scary bomb-payload?
[20:38] <eroomde> http://www.eng.cam.ac.uk/news/stories/2011/CU_Spaceflight/Helicopter_montage.jpg
[20:39] <anerDev> fuksya are the sensor box, blue-sky is the piezo siren, green square is the gps antenna, yello square is the battery, red square is arduino and other shield, green tube at the bottom are the stylo 433 Mhz and gsm antenna
[20:40] <chrisstubbs> Cool :)
[20:40] <anerDev> erromde my box have a similar layout like a little boy ! =D
[20:40] <chrisstubbs> Will your antenna be 1/4 wave with radials?
[20:40] <eroomde> The Great Debate
[20:40] <chrisstubbs> lol
[20:40] <eroomde> chrisstubbs: yes it does look a bit menacing!
[20:40] <anerDev> don't have radials
[20:40] <anerDev> is a normal stylo antenna
[20:41] <anerDev> eroomde LOL !
[20:41] <chrisstubbs> Oh right okay sorry missed that!
[20:41] <anerDev> total widht is 280 mm and total height is 500 mm
[20:48] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, should ahve looked a little closer at what i was buying. I saw they were gold plated and thought they would be half decent: http://bit.ly/18P5KAe
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[20:52] <mfa298> sometimes it's worth reading the negative feed back.
[20:54] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, just checked haha, looks like most of what he sells is s**t
[20:55] <mfa298> although I did have a laugh at someone complaining about the quality of the cable for some Dr Dre Beats - they probably got what they deserved there.
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[20:55] <chrisstubbs> Oh yeah I agree
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> mfa298, they got crap cables?
[20:56] <chrisstubbs> Saw the advert for that beats pill thing. Looks horrid
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> I figured
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> they are like "styler" headphones
[20:56] <mfa298> I suspect someone with Beats would complain about the quality if the cable was replaced with something really good.
[20:56] <chrisstubbs> Also i find the advert for that HP beats laptop misleading. I dont think Dr Dre actually installs a beats chip onto the motherboard
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> you can get Sennheiser ones for a bit less
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> but they are much better
[20:57] <mfa298> I think about 20% of the cost is for quality and 80% for the name
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> and with Sennheiser you have real audio research behind it
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[20:57] <chrisstubbs> I have some nice sports Sennheiser headphones, great design and only about £20
[20:57] Nick change: WILLdude_ -> WILLdude
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> that's why TV and radio use sennheiser equipment
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:58] <mfa298> I'd trust sennheiser (and possibly Sony) a lot more - although I'm not sure I'd trust Sony as much as before.
[20:58] <Upu> also +1 for Sennheiser
[20:59] <chrisstubbs> Its impossible to shake these things out of your ears, they like hook in :P
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> btw we got a Sony TV for about 15 years before it finally broke down
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> and guess what we did when it broke down inbetween?
[21:00] <fsphil> not watch TV?
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> we didn't buy a new one but brought it to REPAIR
[21:00] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, Hit it?
[21:00] <daveake> Wired both live and neutral to it>
[21:00] <daveake> ?
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> back then you could bring stuff to service
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:00] <nigelvh_> Or these days you can repair it yourself.
[21:01] <nigelvh_> I recently repaired my computer monitors. Some of the power supply capacitors were shot, replaced them and the monitor is good to go.
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:02] <LeoBodnar> I have repaired some monitors too. Swapped two out of the four around :)
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> there was a guy on TV who repairs flatscreen TVs
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> he is one of the few people doing that
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> but often he has to replace the whole mainboard in them
[21:03] <nigelvh_> Yeah, that is a risk. The old analog stuff was much easier to repair individual bits.
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[21:04] <LeoBodnar_> brb on another screen
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> that is true
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[21:17] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Lunar_Lander i hear germany tonight on vhf
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[21:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i think its a relay in hamburg
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[21:36] <OZ1SKY_Brian> any dutch here togniht?
[21:36] <fsphil> I was there for a week in 1996 if that counts?
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> OZ1SKY_Brian, btw did you read the PDF?
[21:37] <nigelvh_> My heritage is from there...
[21:37] <OZ1SKY_Brian> fsphil unless your there now, it does not, lol
[21:37] <fsphil> ah well :)
[21:37] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes lunar, remember we talk about it last time :-)
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[21:38] <OZ1SKY_Brian> fsphil just wanted a dutch to check a freq
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[22:02] <ibanezmatt13> With the new knowledge that my components are underpowered, I'm gonna get some Lithium AA batteries and use them with my regulator. daveake with the switching regulator board I have, shall I just solder some normal circuit wire onto each of the four connectors to use with my Pi?
[22:03] <Willdude123> Just want to let you guys know I'll be away until Tuesday.
[22:04] <chrisstubbs> Going anywhere nice WILLdude?
[22:04] <chrisstubbs> willdude123
[22:04] <Willdude123> Alencon
[22:04] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, are you looking at the little switch mode supply?
[22:04] <Willdude123> Student sexchange.
[22:05] <Willdude123> *exchange
[22:05] <fsphil> school isn't what it used to be
[22:05] <chrisstubbs> if so then yeah, 2 wires would go to your batteries/power supply and 2 would go to the pi's power input. I used some female header to pipe the power in through the "GPIO" header
[22:06] <ibanezmatt13> Hi chrisstubbs :) Yeah, it's an LM2596 DC/DC Step down switching regulator
[22:06] <ibanezmatt13> It's got four corners, -in, +in, -out, +out
[22:07] <chrisstubbs> Yeah pretty straightforward to set up, do you have a volt meter?
[22:08] <chrisstubbs> you will want to connect that to the outputs and set the voltage using the screw on the pot before connecting it to the pi
[22:08] <ibanezmatt13> yeah I have a multimeter :) I'll be sure to do that.
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[22:09] <daveake> Adjust before you connect the Pi :)
[22:09] <ibanezmatt13> I made a blackberry phone charger to test it. A PP3 regulated down to 5v. I got an old charger cable, cut the end off and used the red and black wire to go to the blackberry. Worked very well :)
[22:09] <ibanezmatt13> Will do daveake :)
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[22:10] <ibanezmatt13> Wwhat exactly should I regulate it to? For a model B, I guess something around 5v, and for a model A, as low as 3v?
[22:11] <daveake> No. 5V on both. The onboard regulator needs it.
[22:12] <daveake> If you remove the onboard 3.3V regulator and you have no need for 5V (i.e. no USB devices) then you can feed 3.3V directly. But you're not doing that 'cos I told you not to :)
[22:14] <ibanezmatt13> haha, ok :) 5v it is
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[22:25] <Willdude123> Hi Dave.
[22:27] <fsphil> there is no dave, only zool
[22:27] <fsphil> zuul*
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[22:28] <mfa298> looks like you upset him.
[22:31] <Willdude123> Whaa?
[22:33] S_Mark (~S_Mark@212-139-250-208.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:35] <chrisstubbs> Evening S_Mark
[22:35] <S_Mark> Hey
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:35] <S_Mark> Hello
[22:35] <S_Mark> Just about to look at putting my order in to farnell
[22:36] <chrisstubbs> Ah ok cool
[22:36] <S_Mark> Launch this weekend then?
[22:36] <chrisstubbs> Not for me, next weekend maybe
[22:37] <S_Mark> ah must have read that wrong
[22:37] <chrisstubbs> there are a few this weekend though, and i cant get my yagi up on a dodgy temp mast becuase my parents are opening our garden
[22:37] <chrisstubbs> Will probably make a bit of a mess if it falls on someone
[22:37] <S_Mark> Haha yes probably dont do that
[22:38] <chrisstubbs> Upu has been cracking jokes at my expense, so he must be feeling better today
[22:38] <S_Mark> lol really
[22:39] <S_Mark> Yeah must be doing alright again
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[22:40] <S_Mark> aliexpress ship time?
[22:40] <chrisstubbs> 3 weeks if you are lucky
[22:40] <chrisstubbs> :P
[22:40] <S_Mark> ah really
[22:41] <chrisstubbs> I suppose it depends, but the few bits i have ordered were about that
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> good night :)
[22:42] <S_Mark> Bye Lunar_Lander
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[22:42] <chrisstubbs> night Lunar_Lander!
[22:42] <chrisstubbs> missed it
[22:43] <chrisstubbs> How expensive is it all looking then S_Mark?
[22:43] <S_Mark> Not sure yet, havent really looked into the price, have had to put this on hold due to revision!
[22:44] <S_Mark> left uni a few years ago now, should have left revision there too!
[22:45] <S_Mark> Will be back full on it next week though, Edinburgh this weekend
[22:47] <chrisstubbs> 100% HAB
[22:48] <S_Mark> yes 100%
[22:48] <S_Mark> lol
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[22:53] <S_Mark> right, think I will have to look at it again soon, didn't realise the time
[22:53] <S_Mark> Will catch you soon chrisstubbs
[22:54] <chrisstubbs> yeah its getting late!
[22:54] <chrisstubbs> laters!
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[22:54] <chrisstubbs> Think I will follow, bye!
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[23:11] <LeoBodnar> Hi, how can I look at flight variables other than altitude on habitat charts?
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[23:12] Nick change: Nathan -> Guest26613
[23:13] <Guest26613> Hello.
[23:15] <mfa298> LeoBodnar: you can export all the data as csv/json
[23:15] <mfa298> I think the mobile tracker will also show graphs for current flights
[23:16] <mfa298> http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/ and http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/
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[23:18] <MobileNathan> Hi guys. My friends and I are planning on sending a weather balloon up into the stratosphere, and we have all the aspects figured out (even FAA regulations) but we are stumped on what GPS tracker to use. We have heard that we can use a HAM radio to track the payload, but we are not sure how to do that. If someone could clear this up, that would be great!
[23:18] <mfa298> MobileNathan: where are you located ?
[23:19] <MobileNathan> California. We were thinking of going out to the Mojave to launch.
[23:19] <mfa298> most of the guys in the USA use ARPS to track ballons but you'll need a HAM license for that
[23:20] <MobileNathan> I realize that, but how exactly do you track the payload with a HAM radio? Do you put some sort of tracker inside the payload?
[23:21] <mfa298> there are various APRS tracker boards that people use - or they design their own
[23:21] <mfa298> they send the data over the radio using APRS which various stations can recieve
[23:22] <MobileNathan> Oh, so you could buy an APRS tracker and put it in the payload, but would you track it with a HAM radio, or is there another way online or something?
[23:23] <mfa298> aprs data is usually uploaded to aprs.fi
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> You can, and ideally should have your own radio, to ensure coverage when you launch.
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> Launching and then finding out your payload is not in fact transmitting can make one a sad panda.
[23:24] <MobileNathan> So once you get a HAM license, you buy an APRS tracker and can you input your call sign into it? And SpeedEvil, how do you track your APRS tracker with a HAM radio?
[23:25] <mfa298> there is a difference betweem having a ham radio and having a license. If you don't have a license you'll need to get one (or find someone to join your team that has a license).
[23:25] <heathkid> with a *lot* of reading and Google searches...
[23:25] <MobileNathan> I plan on taking the test to get licensed on the 21st. I am studying.
[23:25] <MobileNathan> But I don't have a HAM radio yet.
[23:26] <mfa298> there's a lot of information out there about APRS and a lot of people use it on their vehicles so you can easily try recieving it before even thinking about it for a balloon
[23:27] <heathkid> you don't need a ham radio to receive... you can use a scanner too... or a pretty cheap handheld but your mileage may vary.... you'll need a good antenna.
[23:27] <mfa298> for local aprs you can probably recieve it with a cheap hand held radio
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[23:27] <mfa298> you then just feed the audio into a pc with suitable software.
[23:28] <heathkid> I'm using soundmodem and UI-View32 (works well)
[23:28] <heathkid> took a couple weeks to get it working right though...
[23:28] <heathkid> but I was also setting up a digipeater
[23:28] <MobileNathan> I was planning on buying a handheld radio, and then buying an antenna. Do you guys recommend a good site where I can read up about APRS? And heathkid, does this software come for Mac, too?
[23:29] Action: heathkid doesn't do Mac
[23:29] <heathkid> so I don't know
[23:30] <MobileNathan> Any software for Mac? If there is not, how could I do it?
[23:30] <mfa298> ui-view32 is windows only, and considering its not been updated for several years is very good
[23:30] <heathkid> use a PC running Windows
[23:30] <heathkid> :)
[23:30] <mfa298> in terms of software for a mmacbest place to look is google
[23:31] <heathkid> MobileNathan: you're going to spend a *LOT* of time on Google...
[23:31] <MobileNathan> Trust me, I already have. It's kinda ruining my hopes for this project.
[23:31] <heathkid> you'll get there
[23:31] <heathkid> it just takes time
[23:31] <MobileNathan> I am scared something will go wrong (especially with the tracking aspect).
[23:31] <mfa298> there is a lot of info on google about aprs
[23:32] <MobileNathan> Allright, I will research.
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> Also - lurk here, and you may pick up clues.
[23:33] <heathkid> also... http://http://habhub.org/
[23:33] <heathkid> the UK folks use RTTY but still a great source of info
[23:33] <mfa298> as with any project, break it down into sensible sized chunks. learn about aprs, get the license and a reciever, at that point you might understand aprs better so you'll be in a better position to look at the various tracker boards
[23:33] <MobileNathan> Yeah, I was recommended to come here from a tutorial. I can tell it is going to be helpful.
[23:33] <heathkid> read the UKHAS wiki
[23:34] <MobileNathan> Good idea mfa298.
[23:34] <MobileNathan> And I will do that heathkid.
[23:35] <mfa298> and keep asking questions (especially if you get stuck), but it does help if you've done some research first.
[23:37] <MobileNathan> Yeah, my friends and I have been trying to do research, but couldn't find much on how to track the payload with a HAM radio. This chat has been the most help so far. Also, if this is our primary method of tracking, we were thinking about a GPS tracker that uses a SIM card and sends a SMS with the coordinates of the tracker as our secondary. Would you recommend this, or is there something better. I can't spend too too
[23:37] <MobileNathan> much money on the secondary.
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[23:37] <mfa298> sms or spot can work as a secondary but they both have some issues
[23:38] <heathkid> since you're in CA... http://www.cnsp-inc.com/
[23:38] <mfa298> most gpses dont work at altitude (they'll usualy cut out somewhere below 20km)
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[23:38] <heathkid> use a uBlox-6 in "Flight Mode"
[23:39] <heathkid> ...and this advice coming from someone who hasn't done a first launch yet. :)
[23:39] <heathkid> just need helium...
[23:39] <mfa298> most mobile networks also dont work above a couple of km and your relying on it landing in an area with coverage and in a position that it gets a signal
[23:40] <heathkid> and... still working on the sensors and payload packaging
[23:41] <MobileNathan> Yes, I have heard great things about the SPOT tracker, but it is $150/yr. The SMS one has gotten mixed reviews, but I am mainly relying on the primary tracker anyway. heathkid, you seem pretty educated for someone who hasn't done their first launch. And that's a good point mfa298; we would need cellphone coverage. Also, how to you advise we monitor the altitude (and temperature if possible) from the ground?
[23:41] <mfa298> heathkid: you're in good company, I've not yet built a payload (got most of the bits now) although I have helped out at a couple of launches
[23:42] <mfa298> aprs will give you altitude and I think you can put tempand other data into the comment field
[23:42] <heathkid> well... we're on yet another revision of the tracker... and changed temp sensors to a 1-wire
[23:42] <heathkid> yes mfa298, you can
[23:42] <heathkid> temp, batt voltage, etc.
[23:42] <heathkid> well, internal and external temp, batt voltage, etc.
[23:42] <MobileNathan> Ok, and I believe I could but a computer on board that will record the sensor recordings, am I correct?
[23:42] <nigelvh__> http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=K7NVH-11
[23:43] <mfa298> I think spot also has the issue that it only works if the unit is the right way up. if it lands on its side or upside down you might not get any data from it
[23:43] <nigelvh__> Here's an example from my flight on Saturday
[23:43] <nigelvh__> Various data bits in the comment field.
[23:43] <heathkid> I'm wanting to add a pressure sensor, light sensor, and an accelerometer to sense "free fall" for a cutdown on the balloon *after burst* so little chance of things getting tangled...
[23:43] <MobileNathan> Woah, that is cool nigelvh, so what exactly are all those numbers?
[23:44] <heathkid> I know... even cutdown.... it's still going to fall at the same rate anyway
[23:44] <MobileNathan> I just want to record altitude (maybe pressure) and temperature.
[23:44] <nigelvh__> A= is the altitude in feet, S is number of satellites, F is degrees fahrenheit, V is battery voltage, RF is a unit less measure of rf power, xf is times the transmitter failed to start, xt is the total number of transmissions since turn on.
[23:45] <heathkid> oh... batteries... use Energizer Ultimate Lithium's
[23:46] <MobileNathan> What did you use to record all that data, nigelvh_?
[23:46] <heathkid> aprs.fi logs it
[23:46] <nigelvh__> I just grabbed it from aprs.fi
[23:46] <MobileNathan> But I mean what did you put in the payload?
[23:46] <nigelvh__> It's a custom tracker I built.
[23:46] <MobileNathan> Ahh.
[23:47] <nigelvh__> http://digitalnigel.com/wordpress/?p=1432
[23:47] <MobileNathan> So I could just buy one and it would work, right?
[23:47] <nigelvh__> No. My boards aren't for sale.
[23:47] <MobileNathan> But I mean buy one that people are selling.
[23:47] <MobileNathan> On the market.
[23:47] <nigelvh__> In theory an APRS tracker would work, yes.
[23:48] <heathkid> but no one really sells a true HAB APRS tracker (yet)
[23:48] <MobileNathan> So you really have to build one?
[23:48] <nigelvh__> MobileNathan, I'd really recommend going through the exercise of building your own. They're not too hard, can be done for reasonably inexpensively, and the trackuino code provides a basic base for you.
[23:49] <nigelvh__> Also keep in mind that you must have an amateur radio license.
[23:49] <nigelvh__> If you don't already.
[23:49] <MobileNathan> I realize I have to have a license, I am currently studying to get one. My friend sitting next to me suggests we build one, too. I think we might do that. I really wanted to launch this Summer, but I think we will have to wait.
[23:50] <nigelvh__> Build one. It's a great learning experience.
[23:50] <MobileNathan> Allright.
[23:51] <nigelvh__> This is part of why people don't generally sell HAB trackers. The learning experience brings you into the community and helps to make sure that the laws are followed and you've got the best chance with your flight.
[23:52] <MobileNathan> This is going to be some hard work. I don't think I will launch this summer.
[23:52] <MobileNathan> :(
[23:52] <nigelvh__> Not impossible. Hard work, yes.
[23:53] <MobileNathan> Well, it will be rewarding. I have always wanted to get footage from space, but my own footage. Luckily my friends want to help, too. We are all freshmans in high school; this stuff interests us.
[23:54] <nigelvh__> Well learning about radio and electronics are excellent endeavors.
[23:55] <MobileNathan> How many launches have you done?
[00:00] --- Thu Jun 6 2013