highaltitude.log.20130603

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[01:33] <durhab> For any American users out there: do you have any experience with using APRS to track the location of a high-altitude balloon? If so, how did you do it (what was in your payload)?
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[03:29] <heathkid> where did durhab go?
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[03:29] <arko> ether
[03:29] <heathkid> seems so
[03:29] <arko> shanana
[03:30] <Stark_> Hey everyone, quick question.. Can you obtain altitude from a ublox lea-6h GPS unit ?
[03:30] <arko> yes
[03:31] <Stark_> how :$
[03:31] <arko> http://aprs.gids.nl/nmea/#gga
[03:31] <heathkid> simple answer is... use a uBlox-6 set to flight mode, have a HAM licence, and spend a month or two tweaking things so it works and you can at least receive your own signal first.... :)
[03:31] <arko> Request the nmea packet format $GPGGA
[03:31] <Stark_> oh sweet, and it gives altitude with it
[03:31] <arko> i think a few of the other ones have altitude as well
[03:31] <arko> yeah
[03:32] <Stark_> is a HAM licence required?
[03:32] <Darkside> no
[03:32] <heathkid> for APRS
[03:32] <Darkside> not for using the module lol
[03:32] <arko> not to recieve gps :P
[03:32] <arko> but to transmit on APRS
[03:32] <heathkid> my answer was for durhab
[03:33] <heathkid> as long as you're FCC Part 15 no need for a ham license
[03:33] <heathkid> just be nice and no interference
[03:33] <arko> jam the APRS system \o/
[03:33] <heathkid> but if you want to use ham frequencies... yes
[03:33] <heathkid> that wouldn't be very nice arko
[03:33] <heathkid> :)
[03:33] <arko> no it would not
[03:34] <heathkid> a lot of pilots use them too
[03:34] <arko> i wish the ham community would wake up and think about security
[03:34] <arko> :/
[03:34] <Stark_> ok sweet, I was going to use a NTX2 and NRX2 to transmit the GPS signal recieved from the uBlox.. basically following this: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[03:34] <heathkid> it's not just for fun and storm chasing
[03:34] <heathkid> and HAB launches
[03:34] <arko> even D-star has holes
[03:34] <arko> tons of them at that
[03:34] <arko> my friend and I demo'd many issues a year back
[03:35] <Stark_> it's 434mHz
[03:35] <Stark_> and i'm canadian too by the way
[03:35] <heathkid> congrats
[03:35] <arko> lol
[03:35] <Stark_> so.. would a ham licence be required ?
[03:36] <arko> no idea about canaga
[03:36] <arko> canada*
[03:36] <heathkid> just keep it under 15mW and on 434 MHz you're fine (in the US)
[03:36] <heathkid> don't know about canada.... but probably okay
[03:37] <Stark_> awesome, thanks guys
[03:37] <heathkid> though the DNS may come after you!!!
[03:37] <Stark_> lol
[03:37] <Stark_> hope not
[03:37] <arko> Domain Name Servers?
[03:37] <heathkid> Dept. of National Security
[03:38] <Stark_> department of national security im guessing lol
[03:38] <arko> haha
[03:38] <Stark_> ^^
[03:38] <heathkid> sort of like the US's border patrol with homeland security built in
[03:39] <heathkid> like a military version of the RCMP
[03:40] <heathkid> but they are all great folks
[03:43] <heathkid> and I was testing you Stark...
[03:43] <heathkid> it's the DND
[03:43] <heathkid> :)
[03:43] <heathkid> Dept. of National Defense
[03:44] <heathkid> not Dungeons and Dragons
[03:45] <arko> haha
[03:45] <heathkid> although maybe similar?
[03:45] <heathkid> :)
[03:46] <heathkid> I'm some guy in the middle of the US and know more about Canadian military, intelligence agencies, and defense??? really?
[03:47] <heathkid> though I'd move to Ottawa in a heartbeat if I could. I LOVE that city!
[03:54] <Stark_> lol yeah I know what DND is
[03:54] <Stark_> I live in Ottawa :p
[03:54] <heathkid> :)
[03:54] <heathkid> one of my favorite places in the world
[03:55] <heathkid> you can keep quebec though
[03:55] <heathkid> ;)
[03:56] <Stark_> haha perfect, cheap beer
[03:57] <heathkid> ever been to the Highlander Pub?
[03:57] <Stark_> yea
[03:57] <Stark_> only once though
[03:57] <heathkid> awesome doesn't begin to describe it!
[03:58] <heathkid> I'd love to work my way through their list of single malt's
[03:58] <heathkid> but great beer too
[03:58] <heathkid> not as good as Germany though...
[03:58] <heathkid> but darn close
[03:59] <heathkid> US beer pretty much sucks by any comparison
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[04:00] <heathkid> must be the water
[04:00] <heathkid> oh yeah... Canada as like 90%+ of the world's fresh water supply?
[04:00] <heathkid> has
[04:01] <heathkid> major world power but doesn't know it yet...
[04:01] <nigelvh> Only until america realizes it...
[04:02] <heathkid> nigelvh: don't mess with Canada
[04:02] <heathkid> seriously
[04:02] <heathkid> not like it was 200 years ago
[04:02] <heathkid> better tech than you'd believe possible
[04:03] <heathkid> probably the best place in the world to live
[04:03] <nigelvh> Probably.
[04:03] <heathkid> but I like it here
[04:04] <heathkid> and want to do a HAB launch very soon... :)
[04:04] <heathkid> got my temp sensors in the mail Saturday
[04:04] <nigelvh> Still working on that eh?
[04:05] <nigelvh> We launched three yesterday.
[04:05] <heathkid> :(
[04:05] <heathkid> I'm slow
[04:05] <heathkid> and don't have a helium tank
[04:05] <heathkid> three??? reallly?
[04:06] <nigelvh> It's your first, and an individual. We've done a number of them, and have University resources.
[04:06] <heathkid> :)
[04:06] <nigelvh> Yes, three
[04:06] <heathkid> yes... my first
[04:06] <heathkid> wish I had University resources behind me
[04:06] <heathkid> only one behind me is my wife who thinks it's all a waste of $
[04:07] <heathkid> she doesn't understand
[04:07] <nigelvh> Happens occasionally.
[04:08] <heathkid> eh... probably
[04:08] <heathkid> let's see... "there are plenty of pics on the Internet... why do YOU need to do it?"
[04:09] <heathkid> oh, figured out the stereoscopic thingy
[04:09] <heathkid> tether two balloons a few hundred meters apart
[04:09] <heathkid> the tether would keep them aligned
[04:09] <nigelvh> Stereoscopic what?
[04:09] <heathkid> altitude may be a problem though
[04:09] <heathkid> two cameras
[04:09] <heathkid> 3D imaging
[04:10] <heathkid> at altitude
[04:10] <nigelvh> For normal human viewing, or to get 3D detail?
[04:10] <heathkid> both
[04:10] <heathkid> need to have the balloons seperated VERY far apart to get any 3D perception
[04:11] <heathkid> on the ground... 3 to 6 inches between cameras is more than enough
[04:11] <nigelvh> Your eyes get 3d. You're just going to enhance the 3d effect.
[04:12] <heathkid> at 100k ft.... will take a LOT more distance between cameras
[04:12] <nigelvh> Depends on if the goal is getting images that look "real" to humans.
[04:12] <nigelvh> You'll make mt. rainier look like olympus mons with a setup like that.
[04:12] <heathkid> ever seen a 3D view of the Earth from near-space?
[04:13] <heathkid> nope
[04:14] <heathkid> but tether two balloons a few hundred meters apart and it'll keep them pointed in the same direction (my theory anyway)
[04:14] <heathkid> again... altitude will vary
[04:15] <heathkid> I may have never done a launch yet... let alone 3 in a weekend... but I'm sure launching them at the same time doesn't mean they ascend at the exact same rate.
[04:15] <nigelvh> Yep
[04:16] <heathkid> so for a 3D pic of Earth... need a way to get the altitude the *same*
[04:16] <heathkid> thoughts?
[04:17] <nigelvh> Two balloons and a bunch of photos and just correlate altitude. Or hope to get a good photo on the way up and the way down on one balloon.
[04:17] <heathkid> would need to use pressure sensors... not GPS (not accurate enough)
[04:17] <heathkid> the two payloads would need to communicate with each other (zigbee?)
[04:18] <nigelvh> Nope. Just keep a log of altitude and time, and use the time data from the photo to correlate once they've been recovered.
[04:18] <heathkid> ah
[04:18] <heathkid> NICE!!!
[04:19] <heathkid> do you think (agree) that tethering two together would keep them pointing in the same direction?
[04:19] <heathkid> it should
[04:19] <nigelvh> No
[04:19] <heathkid> why not?
[04:19] <Darkside> you'll have slight variations with balloon filling
[04:20] <Darkside> and you will end up with one pulling the other up
[04:20] <nigelvh> Tethering is just likely to cause issues. You'll probably end up with one balloon rising faster than the other and pulling up on the other setup
[04:20] <Darkside> snap
[04:20] <heathkid> oh
[04:20] <nigelvh> Also wind loads are going to vary a bit, and innumerable other factors.
[04:21] <nigelvh> Just take photos and correlate altitude.
[04:21] <heathkid> have you tried this?
[04:22] <heathkid> at burst altitude?
[04:22] <nigelvh> Correlating photos and altitude? Sure. Using it for 3d? No.
[04:23] <nigelvh> And I'd venture to say that GPS positions and altitude are going to be good enough. Even if launched at the same place, and nearly the same time, your balloons will end up miles apart at top altitude. GPS alt and positions are going to be good enough to use in composing a 3d image.
[04:23] <heathkid> dang... that would rank up there with the first Earthrise photo from the Apollo missions or Carl Sagen's "Pale Blue Dot" photo...
[04:24] <nigelvh> Would it be cool? Yes. Would it be in that category, that's for history to decide.
[04:25] <heathkid> I think I'll start with a first launch and try to recover the camera... :)
[04:25] <nigelvh> A good and achievable plan.
[04:26] <heathkid> :)
[04:26] <nigelvh> As a note, of the three we launched yesterday, we recovered two.
[04:26] <heathkid> ouch
[04:26] <heathkid> what happened to the third?
[04:26] <nigelvh> That's pretty normal.
[04:26] <nigelvh> Recovery is a tough prospect all the time.
[04:27] <nigelvh> We were unable to get any positions below about 26k feet on the way down, so we just didn't have a good idea of where to look.
[04:27] <nigelvh> Hopefully a farmer/hunter will find it and call us.
[04:30] <heathkid> nigelvh: can I pm you?
[04:31] <nigelvh> Sure
[04:37] <arko> that feeling when 1500 lines of code gives you no warnings
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[06:43] <costyn_> arko: can't be right... :)
[06:43] <arko> it works like a charm... my cleanly functioning state machine disagrees :D
[06:44] <costyn_> :)
[06:44] Nick change: costyn_ -> costyn
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[06:47] Nick change: MichaelC|Sleep -> MichaelC|Away
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[07:06] <Andy__> morning all
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[07:16] <chrisstubbs> Upu/Upuwork, what is the model no of the MOSFET in your library?
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[07:35] <fsphil> anyone got a good boat? http://hourly.sanslogic.co.uk/
[07:36] <costyn> fsphil: hehe mine are just as bad the coming week :)
[07:37] <Chetic> natrium42: hi5 _o/
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[07:40] <fsphil> silly summer winds
[07:42] <natrium42> hi Chetic :)
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[07:56] <griffonbot> Received email: Arko "[UKHAS] Layerone 2013 - Near Space Exploration Talk"
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[09:37] <Laurenceb> anyone here got a gopro 3 ?
[09:38] <Randomskk> yea
[09:38] <Randomskk> well not in front of me
[09:38] <cuddykid> ditto
[09:38] <Laurenceb> do you need to pay extra for the raw mode firmware?
[09:39] <cuddykid> never heard of it
[09:39] <cuddykid> sounds interesting though
[09:39] <Laurenceb> the "proscene" or something?
[09:39] <cuddykid> protune?
[09:39] <Laurenceb> thats it
[09:39] <Randomskk> no
[09:39] <Laurenceb> cool
[09:39] <Randomskk> but I think the pc-side software costs money
[09:40] <Laurenceb> do you know how many bits of colour it has?
[09:40] <Randomskk> no
[09:41] <Laurenceb> ill try and find documentation then :P
[09:44] <Laurenceb> looks like 8 bit
[09:44] <Laurenceb> boo
[09:44] <Randomskk> not surprised
[09:45] <Laurenceb> guess you can always use CHDK
[09:46] <Laurenceb> looks like some of the canon cameras are 12bit
[09:48] <Laurenceb> http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/G1_X
[09:48] <Laurenceb> 14 bit O_o
[09:50] <Randomskk> nice
[09:52] <griffonbot> Received email: David Bowkis "[UKHAS] Launch announcement ANU-6 Cambridge 8th June"
[09:54] <costyn> number10: IR modified?
[09:55] <HixWork> Did we ever get an ANU-5?
[09:56] <Laurenceb> lol HixWork
[09:57] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "[UKHAS] Launch announcement Cambridge 8th June"
[09:59] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "[UKHAS] Launch announcement - Chalgrove 5/6/7 June - Vortex Flight 6"
[09:59] <cuddykid> ping UpuWork
[09:59] <Upu> hi cuddykid
[09:59] <cuddykid> Upu: hiya - wondering about the cheapest way to get a 1/2 decent SDR
[10:00] <Upu> 1/2 decent is the FCD
[10:00] <Upu> passable just get the EZCAP one
[10:00] <cuddykid> would it be those ezcap + pre-amp?
[10:00] <Upu> E4000 yeah
[10:00] <cuddykid> does the FCD need pre-amp?
[10:00] <Upu> I use one it helps
[10:01] <Upu> and FCD has a biasT so you can power it off the FCD
[10:01] <cuddykid> FCD is quite expensive though - hm
[10:01] <Upu> yeah but its as good as a real radio for 1/6th the cost
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[10:01] <cuddykid> this is just an additional radio for listening into other trackers on same fligth
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[10:03] <Upu> I've given up with the SDR
[10:03] <Upu> distance wise I struggle to decode
[10:03] <cuddykid> ah right
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[10:03] <Upu> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Circuits-ZFSC-2-4B-Co-ax-Power-Splitter-Combiner-200MHz-to-1GHz-/360618590472?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item53f68b0108
[10:03] <cuddykid> might be best not skimping then :P
[10:03] <Upu> share the antenna
[10:03] <number10> yes we had anu 5 hix - it was a pico especially for Laurenceb
[10:04] <costyn> number10: hheheeh
[10:04] <costyn> number10: what do you mean by IR modified? (canon camera)
[10:04] <mattbrejza> even with the habamp a e4k sdr still isnt nearish a fcd+?
[10:04] <number10> costyn: similar to this but on an a490 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canon-EOS-550D-Rebel-T2i-665nm-Enhanced-Color-IR-Infrared-converted-camera-/181146257261?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item2a2d28876d
[10:05] <Upu> mattbrejza no
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[10:05] <Upu> not in my experience
[10:05] <costyn> number10: interesting
[10:05] <Upu> it works
[10:05] <Upu> and you will decode stuff
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[10:05] <Upu> just not as much as the FCD or the 817
[10:05] <mattbrejza> hmm
[10:05] <mattbrejza> just not as sensitive>
[10:06] <costyn> the SDRs are terribly fiddly to set up and tune as well. At least I find it that way.
[10:06] <costyn> many many parameters :)
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[10:06] <HixWork_> cuddykid, http://goo.gl/AMsmQ works better than my AR8000 for me
[10:06] <mattbrejza> any idea whats on the front of the fcd+?
[10:06] <mattbrejza> i understand theres a SAW and preamp
[10:07] <cuddykid> HixWork_: do you use that with a pre-amp?
[10:07] <mattbrejza> btw are the habamps still using saw->preamp or the other way round now?
[10:07] <mattbrejza> (i understand why it was orginally done the way it was)
[10:08] <Upu> other way
[10:09] <Upu> I'm going to put the new one back on sale shortly
[10:09] <mattbrejza> new?
[10:09] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/HAB%20Filter/Untitled.png
[10:09] <Upu> you can select the power option via jumpers
[10:09] <Upu> and selling them naked or in an enclosure
[10:10] <mattbrejza> oh just making your life easier version
[10:10] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/HAB%20Filter/IMG_1541.JPG
[10:10] <Upu> indeed :)
[10:10] <chrisstubbs> Upu do you have the part no to hand for the MOSFET in your library? Trying to find one with a gate voltage suitable for 3.3v
[10:10] <Upu> hey chrisstubbs
[10:10] <Upu> 1 sec
[10:10] <chrisstubbs> cheers :)
[10:11] <chrisstubbs> Dont know how much longer i can use IE at work without having to hurt myself
[10:11] <chrisstubbs> search bar on farnell wont work. qwebirc bareley works
[10:11] <cuddykid> Upu: do you still stock HAB amp? - if so, how much incl postage?
[10:11] <Upu> no idea chrisstubbs its a SOT23 I think
[10:12] <Upu> I'll find out tomorrow when I get to work
[10:12] <chrisstubbs> yeah thats the package im after really
[10:12] <chrisstubbs> ok thanks :)
[10:12] <Upu> cuddykid yes I do will put them on the shop in the next day or two
[10:12] <Upu> bsp318
[10:13] <Upu> chrisstubbs
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[10:13] <mattbrejza> chrisstubbs: just get a generic logic level FET
[10:13] <mattbrejza> they all have the same pinout anyyway
[10:13] <mattbrejza> make pcb now, order later
[10:14] <mattbrejza> (does sometimes end badly)
[10:14] <mattbrejza> but mosfets are generic
[10:14] <chrisstubbs> cheers upu, looks promising
[10:16] <chrisstubbs> was looking at the 2n7002 but the gate threshold seemed a little close to 3.3v for comfort
[10:16] <HixWork_> cuddykid, not got one yet, though to be fair it performs well without
[10:16] <cuddykid> HixWork_: have you tested it on a flight yet?
[10:16] <mattbrejza> did you want sot23 or sot223?
[10:16] <cuddykid> as in, tracked one
[10:17] <HixWork_> I tracked a flight which landed in milton keynes down to 1200m and that was with the yagi pointing through the house
[10:17] <HixWork_> http://i.imgur.com/IGANBvN.jpg
[10:17] <HixWork_> so the signal wasn't what you could term as optimal
[10:18] <HixWork_> http://i.imgur.com/m7xrdF2.png though it performed really well
[10:18] <cuddykid> nice
[10:18] <HixWork_> better than my AR8000, though i think that has been hacked with and in my opinion is a p.o.s
[10:19] <cuddykid> I'll get one of those then :)
[10:19] <HixWork_> for the money its a no brainer
[10:19] <HixWork_> plus i now get R4 at work :)
[10:20] Nick change: oh7lzb_ -> oh7lzb
[10:20] <cuddykid> GPS/GSM trackers have come down in price - I remember the day where I thought I had a bargain for £60 - now they're £25! Certainly a no-brainer to fly on flights you want to get back
[10:22] <HixWork_> got a link?
[10:22] <HixWork_> kinda makes my stock of MC55's redundant then
[10:22] <cuddykid> one mo
[10:23] <cuddykid> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=171038982724
[10:23] <cuddykid> just got another
[10:23] <cuddykid> been using the one I have on all past flights - proved crucial to recovery sometimes
[10:24] <HixWork_> cheers
[10:25] <cuddykid> battery lasts a long time on it too
[10:26] <HixWork_> suppose it has no screen to power so makes sense
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[10:31] <chrisstubbs> mattbrejza: sot23 if possible
[10:31] <chrisstubbs> but not too fussed really
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[10:32] <ibanezmatt13> Good Afternoon :)
[10:33] Action: mfa298 wonders where ibanezmatt13 is. I'm pretty sure it's still morning here :p
[10:33] <mattbrejza> chrisstubbs: care about current?
[10:33] <x-f> 13:33 - afternoon :)
[10:33] <ibanezmatt13> 54
[10:34] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, school is messing with my brain...3
[10:35] <chrisstubbs> mattbrejza: suitable for a servo so under 1A
[10:35] <chrisstubbs> 500ma maybe?
[10:36] <ibanezmatt13> 41
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[10:36] <mattbrejza> http://uk.farnell.com/taiwan-semiconductor/tsm2314cx/mosfet-n-ch-20v-4-9a-sot23/dp/1864589 chrisstubbs
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[10:47] <chrisstubbs> mattbrejza: that looks perfect, thanks!
[10:47] <mattbrejza> np :)
[11:02] <HixWork_> if anyone is looking fo ra gerber viewer this seems pretty good [free too] http://sourceforge.net/projects/gerbv/?source=dlp
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[11:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Chris Stubbs "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - 14th June 2013 4PM"
[11:15] <x-f> nice, four launch announcements in a row
[11:17] <chrisstubbs> woop :)
[11:18] <fsphil> typical, I'm out most of this weekend
[11:18] <mfa298> so four payloads during the week, four on saturday, and one the week after.
[11:19] <fsphil> aah not all weekend
[11:19] <mfa298> nd most frequencies more than 192KHz apart :(
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[11:20] <chrisstubbs> Darn forgot to include a frequency in the announcement
[11:20] <cm13g09> HixWork_: I've been using gerbv for ages
[11:20] <chrisstubbs> will probably decide closer to the time anyway incase I need to fit in
[11:20] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: you need to keep up with the others and have at least 2 payloads
[11:21] <chrisstubbs> MOAR payloads
[11:21] <cm13g09> mfa298: You need to keep up and build one ;)
[11:21] <chrisstubbs> will populate all 10 cheapo boards and launch them all
[11:21] <cm13g09> (says the man who's never launched a balloon!)
[11:21] <mfa298> cm13g09: you're going to have to invest in a suitable radio so you can track them
[11:22] <cm13g09> lol, I am, aren't it
[11:22] <cm13g09> *I
[11:22] Action: cm13g09 blames chrisstubbs for needing to go radio shopping
[11:23] Action: cm13g09 considers rtlsdr
[11:23] <mfa298> if you want to spend a bit more consider the FCD Pro+ - unless you want a decent transciever.
[11:24] <cm13g09> (and yes, chrisstubbs, if it weren't for your regular launches.... when I move back to Essex, I'd have limited things to track)
[11:24] <cm13g09> mfa298: HOW MUCH!?
[11:25] <cm13g09> You seriously think I'm going to spend £125 to pick up other people's balloons.....
[11:25] <fsphil> you can track most launches from anywhere in the country
[11:26] <mfa298> cm13g09: however they are as good as something like the FT817 for recieving. the rtlsdrs are deaf by comparison.
[11:26] <HixWork_> cm13g09, get one of these http://goo.gl/AMsmQ
[11:26] <cm13g09> fsphil: I know, I was kinda making a slightly sarcastic comment.... Sarcasm on IRC is like helium jokes.... they never go down well....
[11:26] <HixWork_> it's suprisingly effecitve
[11:26] <chrisstubbs> Hopefully the signals from this one will be much much stronger this time around
[11:27] <mfa298> they're good for pretty much any amateur band you want to listen to as well
[11:27] Action: cm13g09 waits.....
[11:27] <cm13g09> cheers HixWork_
[11:27] <cm13g09> I knew I'd found something before
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[11:28] Action: cm13g09 is slightly disappointed that nobody said anything....
[11:28] <HixWork_> cm13g09, re 12:26 http://goo.gl/hwZZn
[11:28] <fsphil> feeling deflated?
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[11:28] <cm13g09> thank you!
[11:28] <gonzo_> someone knocked the wind out of you?
[11:29] <mfa298> did someone burst your bubble
[11:29] Action: cm13g09 should not have started that on #HA!
[11:29] <x-f> :))
[11:29] <gonzo_> it's the pressure of HABing
[11:29] <HixWork_> see what you've done? You let yourself down in public
[11:30] <cm13g09> sigh!
[11:30] <chrisstubbs2> LUNCHTIME! brb
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[11:30] <gonzo_> sigh, should that be more of a wheeze?
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[11:31] <fsphil> yea you can really chute yourself in the food here
[11:31] <fsphil> foot*
[11:31] <fsphil> food too
[11:35] <gonzo_> bit off more than you could chew?
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> this is all too much.
[11:35] <gonzo_> a tangiantial pun thread
[11:35] Action: SpeedEvil invokes the Chewbacca defence.
[11:36] <gonzo_> I'll keep my arms and legs to myself
[11:38] <x-f> let's not lose our heads, though
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[11:38] <Laurenceb> this solar eclipse idea seem exciting...
[11:38] <Laurenceb> but...
[11:38] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=W_9eYcGIT88
[11:38] <Babs> Laurenceb - I'm dead into the idea.
[11:39] <Laurenceb> their footage is pretty lame
[11:39] <Babs> Wide angle lens camera pointing at the centre line of the shadow
[11:39] <fsphil> yea gopro just ain't doing it
[11:39] <Babs> if its stable enough a timelapse of the photos would be spectacular
[11:39] <Laurenceb> needs lots of depth
[11:40] <Laurenceb> i was thinking canon + chdk shooting raw
[11:40] <Laurenceb> hence G1-X in 14bit mode
[11:40] <Babs> canon dslr + magic lantern
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[11:41] <Laurenceb> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Central_eclipses_2001-2020.GIF
[11:41] <Babs> chdk is limited by card size, you would rapidly fill up the card
[11:41] <Laurenceb> 2017 is narrower + much closer to midday in the us
[11:41] <Babs> magic lantern has gone up to 128gb
[11:42] <Laurenceb> oh
[11:42] <fsphil> you'd need a couple of launches to be sure
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[11:43] <Laurenceb> there is an eclipse to north of shetland islands in 2015
[11:43] <Babs> fsphil - plus it would be interesting to have an equivalent one pointing at the sun rather than to the ground
[11:43] <Laurenceb> just move the camera
[11:45] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_eclipse_of_March_20,_2015
[11:45] <Babs> Its an interesting one Laurenceb. Presumably two balloons both switching between the sun and the shadow would stand a better chance of capturing both views than one solely dedicated to the shadow, and one solely dedicated to the sun.
[11:46] <Laurenceb> i think you could slew the camera in a second or so
[11:46] <Laurenceb> with a gyro platform
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[11:53] <Laurenceb> ooh nice
[11:53] <Laurenceb> 14bit raw video at 24fps
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[12:03] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - 14th June 2013 4PM"
[12:04] <eroomde> ooh eclipse chat
[12:05] <eroomde> coolio
[12:05] <Laurenceb> http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5509.0
[12:05] Action: Laurenceb wants
[12:05] Action: Laurenceb thinks its going to be all about the camera
[12:07] <Babs> eroomde - was up to 1am last night working out the whole "how it would work"/"how to test" thang
[12:07] <Babs> am not mentioning it to the fiance until after the wedding. I still have half of her task list to complete. Although did buy a 9-axis breakout board thingy.
[12:09] <zyp> looking at eclipses from above is pretty spectacular
[12:09] <zyp> I happened to be in a plane during the 2008 eclipse: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3221/2731248501_17d47053c8_b.jpg
[12:10] <GW8RAK> Is that her wedding present Babs?
[12:10] <Babs> Testing it by getting an airborne camera to consistently point at a moving point travelling along a straight bit of motorway has to be a good test
[12:10] <Laurenceb> zyp: omg you can see all the planets
[12:10] <Laurenceb> /trololololol
[12:11] <fsphil> aircraft windows are useless for photography :)
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[12:11] <zyp> yeah, unfortunately
[12:11] <fsphil> I tried some astrophotography last time I was on a plane
[12:11] <fsphil> mostly photographed my own reflection
[12:11] <Laurenceb> ewww
[12:11] <Babs> Approximating the centre of the shadow by a straight line over the small distance covered by the balloon ~ straight piece of motorway
[12:11] <fsphil> yea
[12:12] <Laurenceb> Babs: pointing is easy
[12:12] <Laurenceb> not sure if i should reveal how...
[12:12] <Laurenceb> or keep it secret for epic victory
[12:12] <fsphil> does it involve going up and aiming it manually?
[12:12] <Laurenceb> lol
[12:12] <Laurenceb> it involved gyroscopes
[12:12] <Babs> For you Laurenceb yes! Sadly, I have spent the last 13 years doing corporate finance
[12:12] <Laurenceb> not the mems sort
[12:12] <fsphil> that would make aiming really easy. the rest might be a bit trickier though
[12:13] <Laurenceb> very big gyros
[12:13] <Babs> EDIT: I will be aces at working out the bill of materials
[12:13] <fsphil> hah
[12:13] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:13] <fsphil> can you work it that we can all do it for free?
[12:14] <Babs> fsphil - easy
[12:15] <fsphil> kidnap a rich persons dog?
[12:16] <eroomde> what is secret about pointing?
[12:16] <Laurenceb> gyros
[12:17] <Laurenceb> big gyros
[12:17] <eroomde> oh i wasn't at the bottom
[12:17] <Laurenceb> epic epic epic gyros
[12:17] <eroomde> well, you could use gyroscopes
[12:17] <eroomde> kind of think reaction wheels might be the better fit for this
[12:17] <fsphil> mirrors. fixed camera, rotating mirror
[12:17] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba84EL6wO10
[12:17] <Laurenceb> s/lulz/gyros
[12:18] <Laurenceb> eroomde: with a huge gyro you dont need anything else
[12:18] <Babs> Laurenceb - if you don't want to launch something Saturn V-ish in weight, we might need a lighter solution
[12:18] <Laurenceb> it just stabilizes itself
[12:18] <eroomde> it damps itself
[12:18] <Laurenceb> huge physically
[12:18] <Laurenceb> well yeah
[12:18] <eroomde> i'm not sure that's the same thing as being stable
[12:18] <Laurenceb> damps is a better word i guess
[12:18] <eroomde> it's just one term in the eqation
[12:18] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:19] <Laurenceb> so think "semi yo-yo" gyro
[12:19] <Laurenceb> at ~40km theres not much air to give you issues
[12:19] <eroomde> with a reaction wheel you can just input a current and get whatever physic term you want by modelling it in software
[12:19] <eroomde> damped, proportional or integral
[12:19] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:20] <Laurenceb> but it looks to be like you could get ~milliradian wobble easily with a simple gyro
[12:20] <eroomde> but the bearing friction would also slowly spin you up in the opposite direction
[12:20] <eroomde> which would make for less good photos
[12:20] <Laurenceb> shrug
[12:20] <Laurenceb> thats a "feature"
[12:20] <chrisstubbs> Has anyone used a balloon valve with a hab size latex before - http://goo.gl/BPqsd
[12:20] <eroomde> it's a fail
[12:21] <Babs> This is the fellow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GVXqNLLH7Q
[12:21] <Laurenceb> you can change the rotation speed
[12:21] <Laurenceb> to pan
[12:21] <chrisstubbs> was thinking it would be easier to fill a 200g balloon with 50g of neck lift using that as you can take away and measure in between fills
[12:22] <eroomde> Laurenceb: that'd be a reaction wheel :)
[12:22] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:22] <Laurenceb> i was thinking kind of a fusion of the two ideas
[12:22] <Laurenceb> ewww servos
[12:22] <eroomde> Babs: we can do that super-peazy
[12:22] <Laurenceb> bad bad
[12:22] <eroomde> and get rid of the lag he's getting
[12:25] <Laurenceb> eroomde: you dont need "video"
[12:25] <fsphil> even with the lag that's kinda neat :)
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[12:25] <Laurenceb> theres not that much happening
[12:25] <eroomde> who said anything about video?
[12:25] <Laurenceb> so you can take a few seconds out to bleed off yaw rate
[12:25] <Laurenceb> a few times a minute
[12:26] <Laurenceb> using a big CF tube "tail" fin
[12:27] <Laurenceb> with a square meter or two of 10µm polythene
[12:28] <x-f> do you need more than one reaction wheel? payload is hanging on a string, you can / need to affect only one axis anyway
[12:29] <Laurenceb> Babs: you can use PTP to grab data off the camera
[12:29] <Laurenceb> with another board (think flight computer)
[12:29] <x-f> he left, Laurence
[12:29] <Laurenceb> fail
[12:30] <Laurenceb> x-f: gyro + "tail fin" give three axes
[12:30] <Laurenceb> if you are clever
[12:30] <Laurenceb> well - two axis stabilization + third axis control
[12:31] <HixWork_> if the effort to get everything stable works, we need to fly one of these bad-boys http://goo.gl/PVuuV
[12:32] <Laurenceb> wow
[12:35] <HixWork_> Just eating my lunch gave me an idea, I want to produce a Wagyu Ragu papardelle ready meal range and get Jonathan Ross to adverticse it. Levi Roots eat your heart out
[12:37] <x-f> if the effort to get everything stable works, a HDR panorama photo would be the next logical step :)
[12:37] <Laurenceb> with a gyro, you still need a tilt motor
[12:37] <Laurenceb> i was thinking a stepper, but they are heavy
[12:37] <Laurenceb> something like http://uk.farnell.com/nanotec/st6318f1004-a/motor-stepper-size-63/dp/1962049
[12:37] <HixWork_> only if the HDR was subtle, there's a plethora of OTT HDR out there that look awful
[12:38] <Laurenceb> HixWork_: i don't think it has to be as bad as it is
[12:38] <Laurenceb> you can make it more subtle aiui
[12:39] <HixWork_> that stepper has really low holding torque
[12:39] <Laurenceb> about good enough for a well balanced light dslr
[12:39] <HixWork_> but not a 205mm^2 CMOS ;p
[12:40] <HixWork_> just imagine what the lens would need to be like for that sensor
[12:40] <Laurenceb> rofl
[12:40] <HixWork_> it'd need some exit pupil
[12:40] <Laurenceb> http://uk.farnell.com/sanyo-denki-sanmotion/ss2421-5041/42mm-slim-pancake-stepper-motor/dp/1708572
[12:40] <Laurenceb> thats better
[12:40] <Laurenceb> only 70grams :P
[12:42] <Laurenceb> has anyone launched 1Kg to 40Km ?
[12:42] <HixWork_> Babs had a fair payload mass, though not 40Km
[12:44] <griffonbot> Received email: Chris Stubbs "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - 14th June 2013 4PM"
[12:44] <griffonbot> Received email: Radim Mutina "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - STS-4 Demo Flight - 8-th June 2013"
[12:46] <Laurenceb> howyee 1600 gram might come close i guess
[12:46] <Laurenceb> DSLR is heavy :(
[12:47] <HixWork_> mine is ~1200g without battery or glass :/
[12:47] <Laurenceb> canon?
[12:47] Nick change: HixWork_ -> HixWork
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> Cannon are more fun.
[12:48] <HixWork> Nikon D2X
[12:48] <HixWork> doubles as a weapon
[12:51] <eroomde> i reckoned you could do a pointy payload for about 5kg
[12:51] <Laurenceb> eeeek
[12:51] <eroomde> but not with a huge unmodified dslr
[12:51] <eroomde> 5kg is fine
[12:51] <eroomde> if you want the image quality then you don't necessarily need an slr
[12:51] <eroomde> just a leica
[12:51] <Laurenceb> ita not going to 40km fast
[12:51] <eroomde> no
[12:51] <eroomde> but do you need to go to 40km?
[12:52] <Laurenceb> probably want something close
[12:52] <Laurenceb> >35Km
[12:52] <eroomde> wyzat?
[12:52] <Laurenceb> nice black sky
[12:52] <Laurenceb> the haze will be below you
[12:53] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=W_9eYcGIT88
[12:53] <Laurenceb> thats too low
[12:53] <Laurenceb> nasty haze around the same level
[12:53] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_9eYcGIT88&feature=player_detailpage#t=230s
[12:54] <Laurenceb> it'd be nicer to be higher
[12:54] <HixWork> I just remembered I have a Fuji S2 Pro that has been dropped, I could maybe strip the hell out of it
[12:54] <HixWork> that'd get the weight out
[12:54] <Laurenceb> HixWork: i think you'll need custom firmware
[12:54] <Laurenceb> with high bit count RAW mode
[12:55] <Laurenceb> eroomde: aiui the Australian one burst at 37km, but they were at about 35Km during the eclipse
[12:55] <HixWork> custom firmware for what?
[12:55] <Laurenceb> the camera
[12:55] <HixWork> but what for?
[12:55] <HixWork> firing it?
[12:55] <Laurenceb> yes, and setting exposure mode and stuff
[12:55] <Laurenceb> i guess its not essential
[12:56] <HixWork> manual exposure ftw
[12:56] <Laurenceb> but PTP would be nice
[12:56] <HixWork> firing simple
[12:56] <Laurenceb> for SSDV downlink
[12:56] <HixWork> it spits out 16bit RAW as std
[12:57] <Laurenceb> wait wut
[12:57] <Laurenceb> 16bit * 3 /pixel?
[12:57] <Laurenceb> of real data?
[12:58] <HixWork> not sure
[12:59] <HixWork> 16 bit TIFF-RGB so assuming thats 16/channel
[13:00] <HixWork> nah - lower down in the spec i read CCD-Raw (12-bit) so 4/ch
[13:00] <Laurenceb> seems more sane
[13:00] <HixWork> good old marketing bs
[13:00] <Laurenceb> no that'll be 12bits/colour channel
[13:00] <HixWork> hmm
[13:09] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Pico Cheapo launch - 14th June 2013 4PM"
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[13:15] <eroomde> Randomskk:
[13:15] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/IsNa5yC.jpg
[13:15] <eroomde> inside K2
[13:15] <eroomde> K1, even
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[13:24] <Laurenceb> nice
[13:24] <Laurenceb> engine testing?
[13:24] <Laurenceb> at low pressure?
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> Naah - it's clearly for foam parties.
[13:31] <eroomde> it was used in the past for big things
[13:31] <eroomde> hasn't been used for decades
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> :(
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[13:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Turan Orenbas "[UKHAS] Telemetry Code"
[13:50] <eroomde> I don;t think that's his problem
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[13:52] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Telemetry Code"
[13:52] <griffonbot> Received email: John D. Tanner "Re: [UKHAS] Telemetry Code"
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[14:44] <Laurenceb> canon powershot s110 looks good
[14:46] <Laurenceb> - for eclipse viewing
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[15:00] <ibanezmatt13> I've just done a test to see what happens to my program if the GPS looses power and then gains power again. The program stopped receiving GPS data and just hung on the "gps.readline()" function as expected. But, the program never moves on from this part, it stays frozen. I was trying to think of a way to use a timeout in my program so that if no data is received after x seconds, re-open the port but where it hangs at the m
[15:01] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5694404 I've commented the line
[15:02] <Brace> ibanezmatt13: which number?
[15:02] <Brace> 23 right?
[15:02] <ibanezmatt13> line number?
[15:02] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[15:02] <HixWork> what makes the S110 look so good Laurenceb?
[15:02] <ibanezmatt13> it hangs there
[15:02] <Laurenceb> HixWork: lightweight
[15:03] <ibanezmatt13> only when the GPS isn't working though. I'm hoping it'll never happen, it's just for test purposes
[15:03] <Laurenceb> and 12 bit RAW mode with optical image stabilization
[15:03] <Brace> I'd write something in to restart it if it's crashed personally
[15:04] <ibanezmatt13> that's what I thought. But if it freezes on that point, how can I tell it to start again?
[15:04] <HixWork> oh ok. do you think the IS is reliable enough though?
[15:04] <Laurenceb> HixWork: i think you could do a payload for 700grams
[15:04] <Laurenceb> HixWork: itd help to reduce effect of gyro vibration
[15:04] <Laurenceb> itd be impossible to balance a gyro prefectly
[15:05] <HixWork> a stabilised one?
[15:05] <Laurenceb> so vibration would blur the image
[15:05] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:05] <HixWork> hmm using them thin steppers?
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: it's not very impossible
[15:05] <Laurenceb> one 70gram pancake stepper for tilt
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: couple of accellerometers + file
[15:05] <Laurenceb> gyro speed control for yaw control
[15:05] <Brace> ibanezmatt13: I'm a numpty python programmer (and don't know the hardware at all) but is there someway to detect that the connection to the GPS has closed?
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> And a rotation sensor.
[15:06] <Brace> eg while GPS.open = True:
[15:06] <Laurenceb> and pitch and roll damping
[15:06] <Brace> == even
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> Of course, you need to microstep, or you get torque ripple
[15:06] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: hard to sync well
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I was meaning an optical encoder
[15:06] <Laurenceb> CHDK supports inertial sensors
[15:06] <Laurenceb> most canon cameras have an imu
[15:06] <HixWork> that for image rotaion in exif?
[15:06] <Laurenceb> but its hard to get well syncronised data
[15:06] <ibanezmatt13> Brace: That could be possible. I could just check for it to return something. But where would I put this. See, if it hangs on that readline part, there's no way I can get it to run a check
[15:07] <HixWork> hence the gyro chip the other day?
[15:07] <Laurenceb> i guess you could delve into chdk source and try and have syncronised multithreaded imu code running on the camera
[15:07] <Laurenceb> but thats a rabbit hole
[15:07] <Brace> ibanezmatt13: dunno, I'll look at the readline docs
[15:07] <Laurenceb> digic image processor is undocumented
[15:08] <Laurenceb> yeah i guess you could flash an led when the image is being exposed
[15:09] <Laurenceb> but even that is tricky
[15:09] <Laurenceb> aiui chdk is just a task running ontop of vxworks or something
[15:09] <HixWork> I bought a G9 for HAB, it's heavy but pretty good
[15:09] <Brace> ibanezmatt13: what happens if you put the [sizehint] in?
[15:09] <ibanezmatt13> ping daveake
[15:10] <ibanezmatt13> sizehint?
[15:10] <Brace> i.e. is there a maximum size you're expecint
[15:10] <HixWork> and I'm currently analysing a load of HAB images to try and map the EV info to create some statistical data for exposures
[15:10] <Brace> nvm
[15:10] <Brace> i'm looking at readlines()
[15:10] <Brace> not readline()
[15:10] <ibanezmatt13> oh right
[15:11] <Brace> you are intending to use the GNU Realine module right?
[15:11] <ibanezmatt13> nope, ublox max 6
[15:11] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[15:11] <ibanezmatt13> I assumed that was a type of GPS, am I wrong?
[15:11] <Brace> nope
[15:12] <Brace> I'm talking about python modules
[15:12] <ibanezmatt13> I've never heard of it...
[15:12] <Brace> ok
[15:12] <Brace> I think you need to be using readlines()
[15:12] <Brace> and not readline()
[15:12] <Brace> they're two different things
[15:13] <Brace> tho I could be wrong
[15:13] <ibanezmatt13> oh right, I'll have a look
[15:13] <ibanezmatt13> But I'm not having any problems at all at the moment, only when I deliberately turn the GPS off
[15:13] <ibanezmatt13> and on again
[15:14] <Brace> ok
[15:14] <ibanezmatt13> The chance of that happening in flight is extremely low if I solder everything properly, secure everything properly and provide enough voltage, I should hope :)
[15:14] <Brace> well is there someway of doing what I originally suggested?
[15:14] <ibanezmatt13> erm.. I would imagine so
[15:15] <ibanezmatt13> I'll keep looking
[15:15] <fsphil> google pyserial timeout
[15:15] <ibanezmatt13> Hi fsphil :) ok
[15:15] <Brace> ah, that sounds like the badger
[15:16] <ibanezmatt13> Haha! Yes! Of Course :)
[15:17] <ibanezmatt13> Stupidly, I didn't include that because I thought what that did was pause after it had read the GPS
[15:19] <fsphil> I'd be concerned why it doesn't work after you switch the gps back on
[15:19] <ibanezmatt13> As would I :)
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[15:24] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: I'm using the timeout when I open the port, but the GPS is still not outputing anything. Almost as if it just completely hangs at the readline() function
[15:25] <fsphil> it should be waiting for a \n character
[15:25] <ibanezmatt13> If I restart the program now, it'll work fine, but it's just hanging there, and not returning anything at all
[15:26] <fsphil> what timeout have you set?
[15:26] <ibanezmatt13> 5
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[15:28] <ibanezmatt13> here's the code https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5694404
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[15:32] <fsphil> definitly freezes there?
[15:33] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I'll video it for you
[15:34] <fsphil> I mean have you put a print after that, just to see if it is running past that line?
[15:34] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, it isn't running past
[15:34] <fsphil> try a smaller timeout too
[15:34] <ibanezmatt13> I'll just try one
[15:35] <ibanezmatt13> ok ao it's running now because I've restarted it. It's working fine. I'll now disable then re-enable the GPS
[15:36] <ibanezmatt13> new news, it is moving past the print line
[15:36] <ibanezmatt13> so now it's just printing the print line but no GPS data
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[15:37] <ibanezmatt13> you would expect it to eventually start providing GPS data again...
[15:38] <fsphil> yep
[15:38] <ibanezmatt13> it's not doing that. Yet, if I restart the program it works fine
[15:39] <fsphil> worth printing out the lines you're getting from the gps
[15:40] <fsphil> see if there's anything unusual on them
[15:40] <ibanezmatt13> I'll do that now
[15:41] <ibanezmatt13> I've worked out something as well. If I restart the program continuously, it doesn't work. If I wait for around 10 seconds, then restart it, it works. So maybe it's because it has not got time to do anything
[15:46] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: http://sdrv.ms/13gn0w0
[15:47] <ibanezmatt13> that's what it does if I try to print the GPS data out after I've turned off power to GPS, and on again
[15:47] <fsphil> hehe, "please install silverlight to play this video"
[15:48] <ibanezmatt13> I'll fix that :) one sec
[15:48] <fsphil> ah, there is a download link
[15:48] <ibanezmatt13> that should work
[15:48] <fsphil> that's not really helpful
[15:49] <ibanezmatt13> Basically, it started printing a load of rubbish, and never got to a GPGGA sentence
[15:50] <fsphil> I don't think opening and closing the device is helping
[15:50] <fsphil> I'd suggest opening the device, looping until you get a GPGGA string, then closing
[15:51] <ibanezmatt13> That's what I'm already doing :) I was trying to modify the code so that if the GPS temporarily failed in that way, the program would be able to continue after a short time.
[15:51] <fsphil> you're opening it, reading the first line, and closing it
[15:51] <fsphil> regardless of what's on the first line
[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> how will it know if it's a GPGGA without reading?
[15:52] <fsphil> you keep reading until you get a GPGGA
[15:52] <fsphil> then close
[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> oh I see
[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I got that. Sorry :)
[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks, I'll try it
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[16:05] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: That didn't work...
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[16:12] <x-f> ibanezmatt13, can you paste the output from the GPS?
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[16:13] <ibanezmatt13> erm, yeah give me one minute
[16:13] <x-f> take your time
[16:14] <ibanezmatt13> it's not printing what it should. It prints a load of windings with things like go to www.ublox.com interlaced. It's all a bit messed up
[16:15] <x-f> on the video i saw bits of a proper sentence
[16:16] <ibanezmatt13> small bits as well yes, but only the GGMRC sentence
[16:16] <x-f> yeah, but you're disabling the RMC sentence in you script..
[16:17] <ibanezmatt13> I know, that's why I'm confused
[16:18] <x-f> it prints its firmware version (along with "ublox.com") only on startup
[16:18] <ibanezmatt13> it was doing that persistently
[16:18] <x-f> wild guess, but maybe it lacks the power and that keeps it rebooting
[16:19] <ibanezmatt13> possibly
[16:19] <ibanezmatt13> is it safe to power it with 5v?
[16:19] <x-f> depends on the breakout version you got
[16:19] <ibanezmatt13> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51
[16:20] <ibanezmatt13> no you cant
[16:20] <ibanezmatt13> oh, I've got something
[16:20] <ibanezmatt13> It's now repeatedly saying "no lock" which I programmed it to do
[16:21] <ibanezmatt13> if it wasn't getting a GPGGA, it would print "invalid sentence"
[16:21] <ibanezmatt13> So it must be working, just with no lock
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[16:26] <mfa298> might be worth suggesting to ibanezmatt13 to add lots of print statements with a if debug==1 clause so he can have a debug=0 or debug=1 line at the top to have a debug mode in his code.
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[16:47] <SpeedEvil> Somewhat off-topic.
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> Is anyone aware of the internal structure of stainless steel wall cheap vacuum thermoses.
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> Are they just stainless and an unfilled void?
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> Or is there MLI or something in there?
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[16:49] <mfa298> I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a void or filled with something like expanding foam. But I've not had one open to see whats inside
[16:49] Action: SpeedEvil is wondering about misusing one.
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[16:50] <SpeedEvil> (To make a teeny 300C or so oven)
[16:51] <mfa298> if you're going for really cheap ones you could always get an extra one and open it up
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> yeah
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[16:52] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1400ml-Three-Tiers-Double-Wall-Stainless-Steel-Vacuum-Food-Flask-Jar-With-Handle-/221144391361?hash=item337d3b9ec1
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[17:08] <chrisstubbs> Has anyone used the ATMEGA8A before?
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[17:20] <chrisstubbs> evening S_Mark
[17:21] <S_Mark> evening chrisstubbs
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[17:22] <S_Mark> just wiring up my mosfet and servo on eagle
[17:23] <chrisstubbs> cool :)
[17:23] <chrisstubbs> I think it was mattbrejza that found that mosfet
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[17:25] <S_Mark> thanks mattbrejza!
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[17:32] <chrisstubbs> tossing up if I should use an atmega8a on this board or order some new 328p's
[17:32] <chrisstubbs> got them on ebay as they has "atmega328p" in the title, didnt see "compatible"
[17:33] <chrisstubbs> wondering if they will need different fuses set to the 328p?
[17:34] <S_Mark> fuses
[17:34] <S_Mark> ?
[17:34] <nigelvh_> Hardware configuration bits. They're known as "fuses"
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[17:36] <arko> arduino really did a bad job documenting those
[17:36] cuddykid (~acudworth@host-92-28-52-199.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[17:36] <arko> you have to dig into the board config file
[17:36] <arko> to find them
[17:37] <nigelvh_> They're all in the boards.txt file
[17:37] <arko> yeah
[17:37] <mfa298> or read the datasheet for the chip
[17:37] <nigelvh_> The idea of arduino is you don't have to worry about them.
[17:37] <arko> it would have been nice if it was on webpage
[17:37] <nigelvh_> If you're smart enough to assemble your own stuff, then they figure that you can figure out the fuse bits.
[17:38] <mfa298> there's odd bits online but I'm never sure how much I want to trust some of the online lists
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[17:41] <nigelvh_> Called the data sheet. Calculate your own.
[17:42] <cn8dn> hello
[17:42] <cuddykid> oh good lord - mosfet problems (no surprise there)
[17:43] <cuddykid> for some reason the N channel fet is open no matter whether gate is +ve or gnd
[17:45] <SpeedEvil> Positive to what voltage?
[17:45] <SpeedEvil> What voltage is the rds(on) of the FET specified at?
[17:47] Nick change: oh7lzb -> Hes
[17:47] Nick change: Hes -> oh7lzb
[17:47] <cn8dn> for the system raspberry or ardunio uno ?
[17:48] <cuddykid> SpeedEvil: it's an IRL520N so should open fine from 3v3
[17:48] <mfa298> cn8dn: if it's for a balloon the choice probably depends partly on what you want to do.
[17:48] <cuddykid> worked fine in prototyping, now I've transferred it to stripboard it doesn't wok
[17:48] <mfa298> but for a basic payload arduino / avr / pic is likely to be better than a raspberry pi
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[17:50] <SpeedEvil> I think you're only guaranteed about 500uA@3.3V
[17:50] <cuddykid> SpeedEvil: it should be shut though if gate is grounded?
[17:50] <cuddykid> That doesn't happen - it's open at all time
[17:50] <SpeedEvil> yes
[17:50] <SpeedEvil> By 'open' - you mean shorted?
[17:51] <cuddykid> yep
[17:51] <cuddykid> looked in case I've shorted anything whilst soldering - but doesn't look like it
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> In that case, you've likley killed it by static
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[17:51] <cuddykid> as in - there's no change from when I put 3v3 through the gate and when the gate is grounded
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[17:52] <cuddykid> SpeedEvil: is there anyway to check whether I've killed it by taking resistance readings or whatnot?
[17:52] <cn8dn> Radiometrix NTX2 gps
[17:53] <eroomde> hummous The Hague gold gamalan
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: It hould alwyasy change
[18:01] Babs (d4b78c31@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.183.140.49) joined #highaltitude.
[18:04] <arko> i want hummus now
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[18:05] <cuddykid> ping Upu
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[18:37] <Laurenceb_> http://mikrokopter.altigator.com/camera-mounts-c-5.html
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[18:55] <cuddykid> winds are looking rather good for a launch this weekend
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[18:56] Action: chrisstubbs checks hourly
[18:56] <chrisstubbs> my hourly is broken :P
[18:56] <cuddykid> oh dear
[18:56] <cuddykid> plus, weather looks superb for this weekend!
[18:56] <cuddykid> just whether I can get everything ready for one of the launches in a day
[18:56] <chrisstubbs> all the scenario detials are blank, at least i can download my own VM image and install it again :P
[18:57] Action: cuddykid contacts DM for permish
[18:57] Nick change: chrisstubbs -> DMballoonman
[18:57] Action: DMballoonman denies
[18:57] <DMballoonman> mwahahaha
[18:57] <cuddykid> haha
[18:57] Nick change: DMballoonman -> chrisstubbs
[18:57] <chrisstubbs> DM was taken :(
[18:59] <chrisstubbs> Ok I have one question for these fuses if Upu/any fuse loving people are around
[18:59] <chrisstubbs> for 8mhz do i want EXTHIFXTALRES_16CK_64MS?
[18:59] <chrisstubbs> they name these things really well
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[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:10] <cuddykid> evening Lunar_Lander
[19:11] <cuddykid> haven't done a launch in a while with lovely warm temps
[19:11] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: best trick is to spend hours pouring over the data sheet. All the info you should need about startup times and clocking is in there.
[19:11] <mfa298> just takes a bit of reading the right chapter
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> which part?
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[19:12] <fsphil> I don't think I've ever done a launch in summer
[19:12] <fsphil> it's either been ice or snow
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[19:13] <cuddykid> summer launches are a billion times superior to winter launches :)
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[19:14] <cuddykid> 23C and 8mph winds - I'll take that thanks :)
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[19:15] <chrisstubbs> operation burn random fuses appears to be a success, I have blink :)
[19:16] <mfa298> get the wrong fuses and it could be russian roulette fuses
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[19:17] <chrisstubbs> so I have heard
[19:17] <chrisstubbs> flicked through the datasheet but it seems a little sparse on clock related stuff for the mega8
[19:17] <chrisstubbs> the word "crystal" dosent even appear
[19:17] <Laurenceb_> eclipse question answered: http://www.xflysystems.com/products/copy-of-dji-zenmuse-gimbal-nex7
[19:18] <chrisstubbs> Laurenceb is paying
[19:18] <chrisstubbs> that thing looks awesome
[19:19] <Laurenceb_> id worry about stability if it was mounted on a lightweight payload
[19:19] <mfa298> I think for the 324 / mega32u2 versions that I have there's a chapter on clocking it which have details of different types of clocking - I think crystals come under being a full swing or low voltage type on those - don't know what your versions do though.
[19:20] <chrisstubbs> the mega8 seems pretty crap to me, wont bother getting them again
[19:20] <chrisstubbs> 8k memory
[19:23] <chrisstubbs> oh what 8k, there is no way my tracker code will fit on that
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> wtf
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> how can you not fit into 8k
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> ur doing it wrong
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> my first tracker was 620bytes
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> including sms
[19:25] <mattbrejza> just dont use "tiny"GPS and youll be fine
[19:25] <fsphil> hehe
[19:25] <fsphil> so true
[19:26] <Laurenceb_> ive got a work project with 64KB of thumb2 that does fat32, usb mass storage and cdc-acm
[19:26] <Laurenceb_> and talks to a µSD card
[19:28] <Laurenceb_> clearly a case of too many libraries
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[19:28] <chrisstubbs> yeah a few
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[19:36] <cuddykid> is it normal to get a resistance of ~150k ohm between drain and source (nothing connected)
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[19:45] <Laurenceb_> http://www.dji-innovations.com/feature/zenmuse-gimbal-z15-features/
[19:47] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: no, it should be essentially infinite
[19:47] <SpeedEvil> 150K indicates you've damaged the gate
[19:47] <SpeedEvil> They are static sensitive
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[19:49] <ibanezmatt13> I've been running my program for 4.5 hours now and it's still going! :) spacenear.us/tracker
[19:50] <ibanezmatt13> I've been contemplating the need for a backup tracker. Is it worth the risk without one?
[19:52] <Babs> ibanexmatt13 - i needed all 3 of my trackers to get BABSHAB back
[19:52] <Babs> albeit with a yagi and a bit of walking I could have probably found it just with one
[19:54] <ibanezmatt13> I don't have a Yagi. Is it worth getting one?
[19:54] <number10> you could also get some help in recovery on the day ibanezmatt13
[19:55] <Babs> i don't have one either, but it would be cheaper than a SPOT and a TK-102. Although you would need a portable radio to be able to use it fully. If you don't have one of those you might struggle.
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah I suppose so :) I'm gonna launch at Cambridge I think as randomskk suggested. Should be a few people there to help
[19:55] <SpeedEvil> But radios are resaleable and hold rheir value well.
[19:55] <Babs> not sure quite how well the laptop dongle performs walking around fields but i guess someone on here will have tried it
[19:56] <ibanezmatt13> I've not got an SDR either. I'm pretty sure if we chase as close to underneath it as possible, the antenna I've got will suffice as well as everybody else who'll hopefully be tracking it
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> I still think I should go for a backup tracker. Perhaps a mobile phone - I should only really need the backup most when it's on the ground
[20:00] <Babs> ibanezmatt13 - just in case you are topping out with weight with a mobile http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mini-Global-Tracker-GPRS-connection/dp/B003XDQUQE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370289626&sr=8-1&keywords=tk102
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> that looks ok :) But, I really do want to minimise weight
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> And expenditure...
[20:01] <number10> your payload may land in a location not covered by your mobile provider - but it is worth considering a gsm/gps backup tracker several people have used those like Babs just posted
[20:02] <Babs> number10 is right. BABSHAB landed in a little dip out of signal.
[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> I'll definitely consider it :) Especially for a first time launch
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[20:03] <Tiger^> definitely - a backup GSM tracker (ok, not a complete backup tracker, but GSM comms for the primary tracker) saved my recovery :)
[20:03] <ibanezmatt13> How do they work? I guess they don't need to be wired up to a microcontroller.
[20:04] <ibanezmatt13> Or do they?
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[20:07] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7-nwfae4VXQ
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> haha :)
[20:10] <ibanezmatt13> Babs: That tracker you linked me to looks pretty good. :) It says that you just call it, and it'll text you exactly where it is. So does that mean it doesn't need to be connected to anything at all?
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[20:10] <x-f> that is a very stable gimbal :)
[20:11] <Babs> you need to get a pay as you go SIM (don't use the 3 network, for some reason it doesn't work). vodafone works, load it up with a text package, drop it into a slot in the TK-102 like you would a mobile phone and you are done
[20:12] <Babs> you can also set it to text you every pre set number of minutes
[20:12] <Babs> although above 2000ft it will drop out of signal
[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, that's the backup tracker sorted :) Thanks very much Babs
[20:14] <Babs> you charge it and charge lasts a couple of days. just make a space in your payload big enough for a matchbox sized doobrie and you are done
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[20:15] <ibanezmatt13> Excellent
[20:15] <ibanezmatt13> The hardest part of this project for me will be soldering the NTX2 onto some stripboard. I have never done it before, and I'm pretty sure I'll end up messing it up
[20:16] <Babs> Solder some headers onto your strip board ibanezmatt13
[20:17] <Babs> if you get it right, you can just insert the ntx2 onto the headers
[20:17] <ibanezmatt13> The problem for me is designing how to put it onto the strip board. So many ways to do it, some many ways to balls it up
[20:17] <Babs> if you get it wrong, you've just messed up some strip board and headers and your shiny ntx2 is ok
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[20:17] <Babs> have you got it working with the test leads?
[20:18] <ibanezmatt13> Yes, on breadboard
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[20:19] <number10> if you haven't done much soldering practice on something that doesnt matter first
[20:19] <Babs> Then you will be ok, maybe code each end of the wire on the breadboard (wire A point to wire A point, wire B point to wire B point and so on) and replicate it on your strip board
[20:19] <ibanezmatt13> Any good software for designing things on stripboard?
[20:19] <Babs> at least that's how i did it, i'm sure others have a better way
[20:20] <Babs> like software ^
[20:21] <ibanezmatt13> I'll try it. I thought that things could come out of headers?
[20:21] <ibanezmatt13> Would that be ok when it's up there?
[20:22] <number10> pencil and paper for your layout on stripboard is the easiest. I would use a square pad board and some thin wire
[20:22] <Babs> they probably can, but if you've got it all working on a bit of dummy breadboard, its pretty easy to replicate exactly the same setup and solder the ntx-2 in place
[20:22] <ibanezmatt13> good point. I'm sure I'll be able to do it
[20:25] <ibanezmatt13> Babs: That tracker weighs nearly 600g!
[20:26] <number10> the little gps thing - no
[20:27] <number10> thats the boxed weight - spare battery etc
[20:27] <ibanezmatt13> oh of course
[20:27] <ibanezmatt13> sorry
[20:27] <Babs> That would be one dense matchbox sized package
[20:27] <ibanezmatt13> it would :)
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[20:40] <ibanezmatt13> what temperature sensor do people tend to use in HABs? Analog or digital?
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[20:41] <Belleas> Evening all
[20:41] <fsphil> how brave do you feel ibanezmatt13 ? :)
[20:41] <fsphil> hiya Belleas
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: ds18b20 is common
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[20:41] <jcoxon> evening all
[20:41] <fsphil> evneining jcoxon
[20:41] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: is it hard?
[20:42] <Phil_M0DNY> I'd suggest the ds18b20, I've had issues with analog ones picking up rf interference from the TX.
[20:42] <fsphil> nah it's really not
[20:42] <number10> evening
[20:42] <jcoxon> the only issue with onewire is the arduino lib can hang
[20:42] <jcoxon> so just be careful with the ds18b20
[20:42] <ibanezmatt13> is it possible to do it one a pi?
[20:42] <ibanezmatt13> on*
[20:43] <fsphil> yep
[20:43] <jcoxon> http://www.raspberrypi-spy.co.uk/2013/03/raspberry-pi-1-wire-digital-thermometer-sensor/
[20:43] <ibanezmatt13> is it likely to mess up my program for sending everything? Would I run it as a separate program?
[20:44] <jcoxon> looks pretty easy on the pi
[20:44] <ibanezmatt13> ok, well do it. How are they connected?
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[20:45] <Belleas> i have just been asked whati want for fathers day... first thought was the habamp.Cant seem to see it on the hab supplies site though. has anyone had this problem or heard it has been discontinued?
[20:45] <jcoxon> check the link - its pretty clear
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> S_Mark: Hi S_Mark
[20:45] <S_Mark> hello ibanezmatt13
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> S_Mark: Can you remember how heavy your payload was for flight 2?
[20:45] <S_Mark> 1100g
[20:45] <fsphil> that actually seems easier than doing 1-wire on the avr
[20:46] <ibanezmatt13> does that include the box?
[20:46] <S_Mark> yep thats everything
[20:46] <ibanezmatt13> May I ask what balloon you used?
[20:46] <S_Mark> 1000g
[20:46] <ibanezmatt13> Hwoyee, Totex?
[20:47] <S_Mark> I think 1100g with parachute
[20:47] <S_Mark> hwoyee
[20:47] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks for that
[20:47] <number10> ibanezmatt13: you can play around with sizes of payloads and ballons with the CUSF calculator here: http://www.cusf.co.uk/calc/
[20:47] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[20:47] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[20:47] <S_Mark> got to 33000 with an ascent rate of around 5.5 I think
[20:47] <number10> just plug in some numbers and see
[20:47] <S_Mark> the video says ascent rate
[20:48] <chrisstubbs> yeah the ds18b20 works nice on the pi
[20:49] <S_Mark> yo chrisstubbs
[20:49] <chrisstubbs> ohai mark
[20:51] <chrisstubbs> how is eagle progress?
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[20:51] <chrisstubbs> dont mention mosfets btw i think cuddykid is at the end of his tether
[20:51] <S_Mark> ok think I have finished this eagle for now, who would like 5 mins of eagle checking!? This is my first eagle ever - so very open to suggestions!
[20:51] <S_Mark> lol uh oh
[20:51] <chrisstubbs> fire away!
[20:52] <cuddykid> yes, I am completely and utterly fed up with fets
[20:52] <cuddykid> going back to the good old relay! :)
[20:52] <arko> oh there not that bad
[20:52] <arko> they're*
[20:53] <cuddykid> somehow, I manage to destroy every one I set my hands on
[20:53] <arko> what your schematic?
[20:53] <S_Mark> ok, I just got in from football so about to have a shower, I'll leave this here and then everyone can have a look while I am away - looking to power this from 4xAA and am yet to add the SD card to the drawing.
[20:54] <S_Mark> http://i.imgur.com/zqjn4SD.png
[20:54] <S_Mark> ok thoughts welcome, back in 10!
[20:54] <ibanezmatt13> I'm planning an 800g payload, Hwoyee 1200g balloon, 4m/s climb = 35000m in 140 mins. That feasible?
[20:54] <Randomskk> sounds reasonable ibanezmatt13
[20:54] <Randomskk> I assume you've checked with the calculator http://habhub.org/calc
[20:55] <ibanezmatt13> excellent. Would we still be allowed to fly at Cambridge. That's our preferable option
[20:55] <ibanezmatt13> yes I have :)
[20:55] <Randomskk> yes though again I note it's probably got to be in term time
[20:55] <Randomskk> which means before june 29th or after september-ish
[20:56] <Randomskk> otherwise everyone is likely to be at home
[20:56] <ibanezmatt13> Ahh, that's not really what we were looking at.
[20:56] <Randomskk> having said that, sometimes people are around, so it's worth checking
[20:56] <Randomskk> but in general needs to be term time
[20:56] <Randomskk> which means a three month block for summer where no one is around :P
[20:56] <Randomskk> we get great vacations
[20:57] <Randomskk> there's another launch site in cambridgeshire that can launch on weekends, you might be able to fly from there too
[20:57] <ibanezmatt13> That would be ok
[20:57] <ibanezmatt13> Ideally, we want to launch with somebody with experience :)
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[21:07] <S_Mark> back
[21:08] <chrisstubbs> all looks good to me mark
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[21:08] <chrisstubbs> havent spotted any probelms as of yet
[21:08] <arko> do the wiggle test
[21:08] <chrisstubbs> ?
[21:09] <arko> grab parts and wiggle them
[21:09] <S_Mark> haha
[21:09] <arko> make sure they are wired
[21:09] <fsphil> dancing is optional
[21:09] <arko> ^^
[21:09] <chrisstubbs> not a bad idea at all
[21:09] <arko> yeah, i ended up running a wire and it didnt actually connect
[21:09] <arko> so i never routed it
[21:09] <arko> since it didnt show up
[21:09] <S_Mark> ah
[21:09] <arko> yeah fun
[21:09] <fsphil> eagle has a ton of gotchas
[21:09] <arko> srsly
[21:10] <chrisstubbs> should there be a resistor on the gate of the mosfet?
[21:10] <arko> electrical check should catch it though
[21:10] <nigelvh_> I always just hit the rats nest button and at the bottom of the window it says how many air wires remain.
[21:10] <nigelvh_> When you're done it says "Nothing to do."
[21:10] <S_Mark> resistor?
[21:11] <S_Mark> to stop a short?
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[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[21:11] <S_Mark> thanks Lunar_Lander
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> what is the round object connected to 10, 11, 12?
[21:12] <S_Mark> gps antenna
[21:12] <S_Mark> sarantel
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:12] <S_Mark> thats a ublox max6
[21:12] <S_Mark> poor labelling
[21:12] <S_Mark> !
[21:13] <S_Mark> I guess the best thing I could do now is prototype it
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> no problem
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> that is true
[21:13] <S_Mark> using through hole versions of the smd components?
[21:13] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, whats your opinion on R8 and R9?
[21:14] <chrisstubbs> from the examples I looked at for transistors they used resistors between base and arduino, but not for MOSFET
[21:16] <chrisstubbs> upon reading a little more, looks like the resistors are a good idea :)
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> Random question. Is anyone familiar with giant hogweed?
[21:17] <fsphil> that is certainly random
[21:17] <S_Mark> you think resistors from base to ground then?
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yheVkbhx0Mc
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> one sec
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> I'm trying to work out if this strongly smelling of mint large plant that resembles it is.
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> Or if it's something else.
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> ah there you got me
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> I got no idea about servos so far
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> ah you mean the control transistors
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[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> or what?
[21:19] <chrisstubbs> I was wondering about the resistors for the mosfet
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, yeah on a MOSFET you would connect Gate and Source with a 10k
[21:20] <chrisstubbs> some examples have no resistors, some have a resistor between gate and arduino, and some have a pulldown
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> I have the latter one
[21:21] <S_Mark> is this instead of the 270?
[21:21] <chrisstubbs> but pulling the arduino pin low would have the same effect as a pulldown anyway?
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> I think it is to ensure that the MOSFET is fully switched
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. fully off or on
[21:23] <fsphil> the arduino pin might take a few microseconds to pull low
[21:23] <S_Mark> right
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> a MOSFET partially open is bad
[21:24] <fsphil> if it's controlling a motor it might move a bit
[21:24] <S_Mark> open to suggestions! Just want to move these servos once 180!
[21:24] <S_Mark> and open to suggestions on the servos too!
[21:24] <fsphil> I didn't use a mosfet for my servo
[21:24] <fsphil> just apply power, and a pwm signal from the avr
[21:25] <chrisstubbs> fsphil, as the servo only rotates once, I suggested turning the servo off after with a mosfet to save power
[21:25] <fsphil> 273 updated packages for raspbian. gonna be a while....
[21:26] <chrisstubbs> good idea or bad idea?
[21:27] <fsphil> does a servo draw power when not moving?
[21:27] <chrisstubbs> the one i tested did
[21:27] <fsphil> then yes :)
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[21:27] <fsphil> I never measured
[21:28] <fsphil> though it might move, I guess keeping power on it will ack as a break
[21:30] <Belleas> I have a newb question, im looking to buy the uBLOX MAX-6 Breakout With Sarantel Antenna but one of the options is to have the pitch header installed. Are these the connectors so it can be attached to a breadboard?
[21:30] <Belleas> might be a daft question
[21:30] <chrisstubbs> could do, but would need a reasonable amount of tourqe to turn the gearbox on it
[21:30] <chrisstubbs> Belleas, yes thats the one
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[21:31] <Belleas> :) Cheers. Also, what is the advantage of having a battery holder installed? opposed to just running from the 5v of the arduino?
[21:32] <chrisstubbs> the battery will keep some data on the ublox allowing it to get a fix faster next time you use it
[21:32] <chrisstubbs> however many people dont bother with it for HAB
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[21:33] <Belleas> right, might skip it as well then :)
[21:33] <Belleas> thanks for the help chrisstubbs
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> what do the servos do by the way?
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[21:34] <S_Mark> Just a little idea Cassie and I have had :p
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[21:34] <S_Mark> nothing too exciting haha
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> let me guess
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> the servos rotate
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:36] <S_Mark> :p
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> some light entertainment
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> if you want to see why I laughed my back off
[21:43] <fsphil> sounds painful
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jQym_woiMLQ
[21:45] <S_Mark> high pitched noise!!!
[21:45] <S_Mark> lol
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> ^eclipse problem solved
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> pwm
[21:45] <S_Mark> but good camera, that you Lunar_Lander?
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> noo
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> I don't know who the guy is
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> I wanted to show you this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdn8gQkHyHI
[21:46] <chrisstubbs> i was getting ready for dramatic hamster
[21:49] <fsphil> or dramaticat
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> so how do you like it?
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[21:50] <Uggy> Hi guys...I'm fighting against my NTX2.. It seems I'm loosing the fight.. I can't decode properly.. I receive garbage...
[21:51] <chrisstubbs> Uggy how does your waterfall look?
[21:52] <Uggy> Well.. the shift looks ok ~500Hz
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QnigI1WuZcU
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> so epic
[21:53] <chrisstubbs> ok, and you have checked your rtty settings are correct, i guess you used the tutorial and code on ukhas?
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[21:53] <Uggy> is it ok to have the yellow line 100hz wide when transmitting
[21:53] <Uggy> ?
[21:53] <Uggy> same for both lines..
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: nice
[21:54] <chrisstubbs> Uggy that should be ok
[21:54] <chrisstubbs> might help if you take a printscreen
[21:54] <Uggy> ok.. give me few sec thx
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[21:54] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: The other plus side is that it makes lightsabre noises on rapid slews.
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[21:56] <Laurenceb_> heh
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[22:00] <Uggy> here is a screenshot of my first battle with ntx2 http://pix.toile-libre.org/?img=1370296773.png
[22:00] <Uggy> not sure if this should looks like this or not.
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[22:01] <chrisstubbs> in the corner of dl-fldigi there is a button labelled "Rv"
[22:01] <chrisstubbs> is that green or not?
[22:02] <fsphil> signal looks a bit noisy
[22:02] <Uggy> rv is not green
[22:02] <fsphil> very*
[22:02] <Uggy> what could be the cause of the noise ?
[22:02] <fsphil> how are you powering it?
[22:03] <Uggy> From the Pi
[22:03] <fsphil> the Pi's psu might not be very good
[22:03] <fsphil> when it's not transmitting data, you should have a steady tone
[22:03] <chrisstubbs> in your setting under op mode>rtty>custom
[22:04] <chrisstubbs> printscreen that window
[22:04] <Uggy> ok... thx..
[22:04] <chrisstubbs> the pi's serial port should be set up to use 8 bit ascii and 2 stop bits
[22:06] <chrisstubbs> like so: http://pastebin.com/zwD0PbtQ
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[22:07] <Uggy> http://pix.toile-libre.org/?img=1370297200.png
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[22:07] <Uggy> I'm using a USB serial
[22:07] <chrisstubbs> oh you should have 2 stop bits
[22:07] <chrisstubbs> and check your baud rate (75) matches your code
[22:07] <Uggy> I setup my ssty to 1 stop bit (I think)
[22:08] <Uggy> you can see in the screeshot my stty command
[22:08] <Uggy> to use 75 baud rate
[22:08] <Uggy> at least I think
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[22:09] <Uggy> I will test with 2 stop bit if you think it could be the problem
[22:09] <chrisstubbs> give it a try
[22:09] <fsphil> your baud rate might be too slow too
[22:09] <chrisstubbs> i have never used SSTY im afraid
[22:09] <chrisstubbs> ^possible
[22:09] <fsphil> hardware uarts seem to struggle below 300 baud
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[22:10] <fsphil> but I think your main problem is that noise
[22:10] <chrisstubbs> cant remember if i tested the pi at 50 or not
[22:10] <Uggy> well I tested 300.. without success
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[22:10] <Uggy> lets try 2 stop bit
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[22:12] <chrisstubbs> failing that, as fsphil said you may have power supply noise issues
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[22:13] <chrisstubbs> also, could the problem lie in the USB>serial board
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[22:14] <chrisstubbs> I doubt they are designed for such a low baud rate
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[22:14] <chrisstubbs> even 300 on a usb ttl?
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[22:17] <Uggy> ok..
[22:18] <Uggy> so you mean that usb could be not appropriate
[22:19] <Uggy> if it can't go as low as 300
[22:19] <Uggy> and we need something around 50 -> 300 ?
[22:20] <chrisstubbs> you could try 600
[22:20] <chrisstubbs> dont suppose you can find a spec or datasheet for your usb serial board?
[22:20] <Uggy> ok..
[22:20] <Uggy> I already read the datashet
[22:21] <chrisstubbs> does it specify baudrates?
[22:21] <Uggy> yes.. let me check again...
[22:21] <Uggy> but if I remember it goes down to 75
[22:22] <Uggy> http://www.electronicaestudio.com/docs/PL2303.pdf
[22:22] <Uggy> page 10
[22:22] <Uggy> 75
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[22:26] <chrisstubbs> hmmmm
[22:26] <chrisstubbs> im not sure then im afraid
[22:26] <chrisstubbs> noise could be a culprit
[22:26] <chrisstubbs> you could try using the pi's onboard serial - thats tried and tested
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[22:26] <Uggy> ok.. noise..
[22:27] <Uggy> how do you see the noise ? because the line is to wide ?
[22:27] <chrisstubbs> It didnt look noisy to me
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[22:27] <chrisstubbs> but i trust fsphil's judgement
[22:27] <chrisstubbs> :P
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[22:27] <Uggy> ok ;)
[22:28] <Uggy> well .. and could it be the 3.3v of the PI itself that does not give enough power ?
[22:28] <Uggy> it's 10 mW ?
[22:32] <chrisstubbs> im off now im afraid
[22:32] <chrisstubbs> good luck :)
[22:32] <chrisstubbs> and try the pis serial on the GPIO
[22:32] <Uggy> ok.. I'm tired too for this noght
[22:32] <Uggy> night
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[22:38] <fsphil> Uggy: yea the noise when it's not transmitting data
[22:38] <fsphil> you should have a steady and solid tone
[22:39] <fsphil> if you have another psu then it's worth trying
[22:40] <Uggy> fsphil: ok thx..
[22:40] <Uggy> I currently don't have one.. but will try to get one soon
[22:41] <Uggy> what do you mean "solid tone"... ? narrow yellow line ?
[22:44] <fsphil> yes
[22:45] <Uggy> somthing arround 10Hz wide ?
[22:47] <fsphil> ideally 0hz, but practically yea it'll be a few hz wide
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[22:48] <fsphil> I can't find a good screenshot to show it
[22:48] <Uggy> ok I see...
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[22:59] <Uggy> http://pix.toile-libre.org/?img=1370300282.png I have narrow line .. then wide when transmitting.. and no decoding at all :)
[23:02] <fsphil> that looks better, what did you change?
[23:02] <daveake> The narrow line when not sending data is correct
[23:02] <Uggy> ok .. good..
[23:02] <daveake> What baud rate are you sending at?
[23:02] <Uggy> well I disconnect SDR key.. and started again software..
[23:03] <Uggy> Hi daveake . i tested 75.. 100..300
[23:03] <fsphil> ah so possibly a receiver problem
[23:03] <daveake> (follow-up question will be: why is dl-fldigi set to 75 baud?)
[23:03] <daveake> Stick to 330 (both sides of course)
[23:03] <Uggy> daveake: because by stty is set to 75
[23:04] <fsphil> 300*
[23:04] <daveake> 300
[23:04] <daveake> oops
[23:04] <Uggy> ok.. let me try again 300
[23:04] <Uggy> daveake: I'm not on the embeded PI serial.. but on an USB/serial
[23:04] <daveake> Also make sure that the data bits / parity / stop bits are the same both side
[23:04] <fsphil> also turn SQL off in the bottom right
[23:05] <daveake> Uggy doesn't matter what's sending same stuff applies
[23:05] <Uggy> ok thx.. I'm trying that
[23:07] <Uggy> ok..something interesting...
[23:07] <Uggy> let me do a screenshot
[23:07] <Uggy> may be some kind of utf8 or unicode issue... you will tell me
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[23:09] <Uggy> http://pix.toile-libre.org/?img=1370300952.png
[23:09] <Uggy> what do you think ?
[23:09] <Uggy> good news is i can reproduce same set of data
[23:10] <fsphil> your filter bandwidth seems too small
[23:10] <fsphil> it'll be in the rtty config page
[23:11] <fsphil> should be at least 300hz
[23:12] <Uggy> 300 ? ok
[23:13] <daveake> looks like a parity/databits mismatch
[23:13] <daveake> Make sure they match exactly between stty and dl-fldigi
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[23:14] <daveake> Also, check the receiver is set to USB
[23:15] <Uggy> yes receiver set to "USB"..I'm checking again parity/databit
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[23:18] <Uggy> -cstopb is one stop bit ---- and set to one stop bit in fldigi
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[23:20] <Uggy> -parenb Disables parity --- and set to "parity none" in dl-fldigi
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[23:25] <Uggy> I have regular.. but wrong decoding..
[23:25] <Uggy> http://pix.toile-libre.org/?img=1370301887.png
[23:25] <Uggy> may be something related to my terminal ?
[23:26] <daveake> Try click Rv see if that fixes it
[23:26] <Uggy> Rv enabled now.. not better
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[23:27] <daveake> turn it back off then
[23:27] <Uggy> ok
[23:27] <fsphil> your filter bandwidth is still to little
[23:27] <daveake> somewhere you still have a mismatch between stty and dl-fldigi
[23:28] <fsphil> it looks to be 100hz, it should be 300 at least
[23:28] <daveake> Your images aren't very useful. Try the rtty config page that might be more useful
[23:28] <Uggy> yes it was 100..
[23:29] <Uggy> but when setup 300.. I don't have any decoding
[23:29] <fsphil> it must be at least the baud rate
[23:29] <Uggy> ok.. I will remind this.. thx
[23:32] <Uggy> any idea why I don't decode anything anymore at 300 ?
[23:32] <Uggy> http://pix.toile-libre.org/?img=1370302299.png 300
[23:32] <fsphil> screenshot of rtty config please
[23:32] <fsphil> and make sure SQL is off
[23:33] <daveake> sorry those screennshots aren't helping
[23:33] <Uggy> yes.. SQL was off
[23:33] <daveake> Please upload the rtty config page
[23:33] <Uggy> ok..
[23:36] <Uggy> http://pix.toile-libre.org/?img=1370302556.png
[23:37] <fsphil> seems ok. try transmitting something other than all A's
[23:38] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@62.10.7.232) joined #highaltitude.
[23:39] <daveake> How come the rtty setup page has a shift of 450, but the status bar and waterfall are showing 525?
[23:39] <Uggy> I sent "hello world".. but nothing decoded (at 300 filter)
[23:39] <fsphil> hmm well spotted
[23:39] <fsphil> that is odd
[23:39] <fsphil> increase the filter a bit more, 350 maybe
[23:39] <daveake> Try the "save" button
[23:40] <Uggy> agree with you about 450/525... ??? no idea ! ?
[23:40] <daveake> And run stty to check the current port settings
[23:41] <Uggy> I did "save" button.. dont see what iw wrong..
[23:41] Action: fsphil starts brain shutdown
[23:41] <fsphil> nite all
[23:41] <Uggy> thx fsphil bye
[23:41] <Uggy> trying 350.. and checking ssty settings....
[23:44] <Uggy> uploading pic in few sec
[23:44] <Uggy> http://pix.toile-libre.org/?img=1370303081.png
[23:53] daveake (~daveake@89.206.140.50) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[23:59] <Uggy> Well NTX2:1 Uggy:0 :)
[23:59] <Uggy> at least for this night
[00:00] --- Tue Jun 4 2013