highaltitude.log.20130602

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[00:44] <anerDev> good night guys
[00:45] <anerDev> no no wait, !!
[00:45] <anerDev> ping fsphil
[00:45] <arko> fsphil: thanks man
[00:46] <anerDev> I don't know the utility of the checksum
[00:46] <arko> yeah, oddly enough, i've never had a business card
[00:46] <arko> it just never came up
[00:46] <anerDev> anyone can tell me the "utility" ?
[00:51] <anerDev> :/ good night
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[02:03] <heathkid> anyone use 32 Gauge Nichrome Wire for a cutdown?
[02:04] <heathkid> at 10.55 ohms per foot at room temperature... how do I calculate what it would be at burst altitude (100k+ ft.)?
[02:04] <heathkid> I'm wanting to use an accelerometer to detect free fall then cut loose the balloon so there is no chance of it getting tangled with the paraschute.
[02:04] <heathkid> thoughts? ideas?
[02:05] <heathkid> I'm sure it's not "room temperature" at that altitude
[02:05] <heathkid> :)
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[02:23] <heathkid> or is that not an issue anyway?
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[02:48] <SpeedEvil> well...
[02:49] <SpeedEvil> will the temperature when it's cutting down be close to that?
[02:49] <SpeedEvil> of the wire
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[03:23] <heathkid> SpeedEvil: I have no clue.. never tried it
[03:23] <heathkid> all I need to cut through is 50 lb. test fishing line
[03:24] <heathkid> I guess I'll just need to test it when it arrives
[03:29] <heathkid> again... I'm in the wrong time zone for asking questions...
[03:29] <heathkid> <sigh>
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[05:44] <nigelvh> Evening all
[05:45] <arko> yo
[05:45] <arko> did you launch?
[05:45] <nigelvh> Yep, three today
[05:45] <arko> awesome!
[05:45] <nigelvh> Recovered two of them
[05:45] <arko> my gf is in seattle oddly enough
[05:45] <arko> oh sweet!
[05:45] <arko> werent too difficult?
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[05:46] <nigelvh> The two we recovered were easy.
[05:46] <arko> nice!
[05:46] <nigelvh> We had nice low position reports so we just picked them up.
[05:46] <arko> :)
[05:46] <nigelvh> We also launch in eastern washington where it's all fields, so that makes it easier.
[05:46] <arko> heh, yeah
[05:47] <arko> not forest
[05:47] <nigelvh> Your GF live here, or just visiting?
[05:47] <arko> visitng
[05:47] <nigelvh> Fun stuff. At least it's good weather this weekend.
[05:47] <arko> she's apart of the nationals for the asce steel bridge competition
[05:47] <nigelvh> Seattle's not known for it.
[05:47] <arko> i think they are out at the bar now
[05:47] <nigelvh> Seems particularly fitting to come up here with the recent I-5 bridge collapse.
[05:48] <arko> yeah
[05:49] <arko> turns out taking care of bridges is important
[05:49] <arko> oh man
[05:49] <nigelvh> You know, that little deal.
[05:49] <arko> from Animals to Atom Heart Mother
[05:49] <arko> damn me and my entire pink floyd collection
[05:50] <nigelvh> Haha
[05:59] <nigelvh> Yeah, the third balloon we lost GPS on. Makes it kind of hard to find.
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[06:05] <arko> yeah...
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[06:14] <jcoxon> morning all
[06:15] <nigelvh> Evening
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[06:16] <jcoxon> hey nigelvh
[06:16] <nigelvh> How's things?
[06:17] <jcoxon> good thanks
[06:19] <jcoxon> good balloon flights?
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[06:19] <nigelvh> Yeah, All three flew. Two recovered. The third seemed to lose GPS, and so it's hard to find those.
[06:19] <nigelvh> Got a sticker on it though so perhaps someday we'll get a call.
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[06:23] <jcoxon> will be a welcome suprise
[06:23] <nigelvh> Indeed
[06:23] <arko> morning
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[06:33] <jcoxon> time to persuade Upu to launch :p
[06:34] <arko> lol
[06:34] <arko> if we all chant at the same time...
[06:34] <Upu> hmm ?
[06:34] <arko> morning
[06:34] <arko> hah
[06:35] <jcoxon> pico pico pico
[06:35] <Upu> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/1517_trj001.gif
[06:36] <arko> going for a floater?
[06:36] <jcoxon> interesting
[06:36] <Upu> I don't have timetoday sorry
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[06:36] <arko> aww
[06:36] <jcoxon> oh well
[06:36] <arko> haha
[06:36] <Upu> maybe this evening
[06:36] <jcoxon> don't feel pressured :-!
[06:36] <arko> man, casual habing sounds awesome
[06:36] <Upu> heh
[06:36] <arko> i have to plan weeks ahead usually
[06:36] <arko> gathering people and parts
[06:37] <Upu> you're welcome to come up and finish painting my fence and I'll go launch
[06:37] Action: arko books tickets
[06:37] <daveake> come here; we have bacon
[06:37] <arko> this is one of those moments where i wish i was a billionare
[06:37] <arko> just do crazy stuff like that
[06:37] <arko> fly to the uk for the day
[06:38] <Upu> lol
[06:38] <arko> mmm bacon
[06:38] <Upu> afk
[06:38] <arko> daveake: please email me some bacon
[06:38] <daveake> illegal attachment
[06:38] <arko> lol
[06:38] <daveake> customs will remove it
[06:38] <arko> try 7zipping it
[06:38] <arko> customs cant read it
[06:39] <arko> zip never works
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[07:03] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning :)
[07:04] <ibanezmatt13> I'm just wondering, how close can you actually get the NTX2 and the uBLOX GPS? I've seen some pictures with them literally touching each other, but other people talk about how if they're too close they conflict.
[07:06] <lz1dev> im no expert, but transmitting may interfere with gps signal reception
[07:07] <jcoxon> ibanezmatt13, the ubloxes are pretty good at coping with interference
[07:07] <jcoxon> they can go pretty close
[07:08] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, ok :)
[07:08] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks
[07:08] <jcoxon> but if you can get them further then thats best
[07:08] <ibanezmatt13> That's what I'll definitely do for my actual flight, they're only gonna be close for testing
[07:15] <ibanezmatt13> probably gonna order my Rapsberry Pi Model A today :)
[07:25] <Upu> I just went out with dog, ground winds are way too high for a pico atm
[07:26] <Upu> morning ibanezmatt13
[07:26] <Upu> forgot to mention if there is a live flight in progress its ettique not to upload testing data
[07:26] <Upu> you can put dl-fldigi in offline mode
[07:26] <Upu> however there is a launch this morning up north ish
[07:29] <ibanezmatt13> Morning Upu :)
[07:29] <ibanezmatt13> OK, I'll put dl-fldigi in offline mode
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[07:30] <Upu> its ok at the moment
[07:30] <ibanezmatt13> In fact, I'll have a go at tracking the flight
[07:30] <Upu> meant to be about lunch time I think
[07:30] <ibanezmatt13> ok, do you reckon I'll be able to get anything if I try to receive it?
[07:30] <ibanezmatt13> I'm pretty high up
[07:31] <Upu> what antenna do you have ?
[07:32] <ibanezmatt13> it's a WSM-270 designed for the car roof. If I go up to Billinge Hill, very high up, I may be able to get something
[07:32] <ibanezmatt13> worth a try
[07:32] <Upu> pretty sure you'll pick it up
[07:33] <Upu> got internet in the car ?
[07:33] <ibanezmatt13> I'll give it a go. :) Looking forward to it
[07:33] <ibanezmatt13> yeah :)
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[07:33] <ibanezmatt13> but I'm taking a laptop, so I can just run dl-fldigi in offline mode and see what I can get
[07:33] <Upu> how long does it take you to get up there ?
[07:33] <ibanezmatt13> 3 minutes in a car :)
[07:34] <Upu> I wouldn't set off until its launched
[07:34] <ibanezmatt13> I'll probably set off when it's getting pretty high. Aren't I more likely to pick it up if it's at altitude?
[07:35] <Upu> yeah
[07:35] <Upu> my guess is you'll be able to receive it fairly low ~4-6km
[07:35] <ibanezmatt13> that would be good. Where exactly is this launch?
[07:35] <Upu> there is no exactly in HAB
[07:35] <Upu> and its a first launch
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[07:36] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:glossary:ish
[07:36] <Upu> "Balcan One will be launching from Horncastle at around midday"
[07:36] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, will it be uploading to the server?
[07:37] <Upu> absolutely
[07:37] <ibanezmatt13> good. What are the winds today; east or west?
[07:37] <ibanezmatt13> Please say east...
[07:37] <Upu> prediction is around the area it launches from
[07:37] <Upu> it goes west then back east a little
[07:38] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, I really hope it doesn't start going east :\
[07:38] <Upu> why ? you'll still pick it up
[07:38] <ibanezmatt13> No, I mean that it could go in the North Sea :)
[07:39] <Upu> it goes over the sea and back in
[07:39] <ibanezmatt13> ah right.
[07:40] <ibanezmatt13> I'm gonna fire up my Pi. I messed it up last night some how so I'm having to reflash the SD card. Thankfully everything's backed up
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[07:52] <number10> balcan 1 was a short notice announcement - anyone know if its someone who has tracked before?
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[07:58] <Phil_M0DNY> number10: I don't think it is, why?
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[08:02] <number10> just wondered how well they were going to track and chase Phil_M0DNY
[08:04] <Phil_M0DNY> They are a bit out of the way of most of us.
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[08:10] <Ian_2E0XOD> Hi Guy's nice to see a good turn out on the map
[08:12] <Ian_2E0XOD> We will be onsite and setting up soon link http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=balcan%20engineering%20horncastle&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.balcan.co.uk%2F&ei=eP2qUeDnL5C20QWPlIDoDg&usg=AFQjCNHODKtnBMEjlktQ3v2rX6xWYT5EoQ&bvm=bv.47244034,d.d2k
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[08:12] <Ian_2E0XOD> Launch Site location: Horncastle in Lincolnshire
[08:13] <ibanezmatt13> Anybody know the Linux way to download a .tar.gz file onto the Pi. Is it something like wget http://r.... ? How do you download a tarball?
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[08:15] <x-f> it's exactly like that - using wget
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[08:15] <Upu> hi Ian_2E0XOD
[08:15] <Upu> what balloon are you using and whats predicted burst alt ?
[08:15] <Ian_2E0XOD> Hi Upu
[08:16] <Ian_2E0XOD> The tracker shows a sse path burst atlertude aprox 30000
[08:16] <Upu> what balloon is it ?
[08:16] <Ian_2E0XOD> Depending on temp and conditions
[08:17] <Ian_2E0XOD> Latex 2mtr
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[08:17] <Upu> 2mtr ?
[08:17] <Upu> what weight
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[08:18] <Ian_2E0XOD> lifting aprox 300g - payload 100g
[08:19] <Upu> generally the balloons are rated by weight are you saying its a 300g latex ?
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[08:21] <m3eav> is Balcone one not goign to be on the fldigi software list?
[08:22] <Ian_2E0XOD> Hi sorry distracted - Balloon weight agout 200g however the lifting weight states 300g
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[08:23] <Ian_2E0XOD> I need to set off soon I do belive that it is on the list
[08:23] <m3eav> can oonly see sts-3 on fldigi active flights?
[08:24] <Ian_2E0XOD> checking
[08:26] <Ian_2E0XOD> Hi I will check with the Team for further information ?
[08:27] <m3eav> ok, refreshing the program here but can;t see it
[08:27] <Upu> probably not going to get 30km with that
[08:27] <Upu> also yes Ian_2E0XOD you don't have a flight document approved
[08:28] <Upu> best join #habhub and get that sorted out
[08:28] <Ian_2E0XOD> M3EAV - 2E0XOD thanks for the information
[08:28] <m3eav> NO probs
[08:28] <m3eav> Ian my name too :-)
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[08:28] <Ian_2E0XOD> Launch information approved late Saturday
[08:29] <Ian_2E0XOD> Quite popular M3EAV
[08:29] <m3eav> :-)
[08:30] Nick change: Upu2 -> UpuWork
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[08:31] <Ian_2E0XOD> Nice to see that M3's are trying this type of project if you have time and would like to try your hand at construction then give this site a visit > http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=2e0xod&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fm3xod-2e0xod.webplus.net%2F&ei=5AKrUfzFAabP0AXv4IDQDw&usg=AFQjCNF0jZQbsw98IWhXKF2enCySnHxZPw&bvm=bv.47244034,d.d2k
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[08:33] <m3eav> Lol, i have been doing more than this for 30 years !!
[08:34] <m3eav> nearly always listening
[08:34] <m3eav> I suppose eventually i must get around to getting a higher class license:-)
[08:35] <Ian_2E0XOD> Me to only that some of my construction progect was removed on the legal advice of HSE possible Libility with inexperienced constructors
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[08:37] <Ian_2E0XOD> In 1970 using a President Zacharty CB - Transmitted Software data onto another computer over the air using a Texas TI99/4A dont make them anymore TI revertet back to Calculators
[08:38] <m3eav> I used ot use CB to send my farmer friend wefax and wxsat pics:-)
[08:38] <Ian_2E0XOD> Great times
[08:39] <m3eav> They was fun
[08:39] <Ian_2E0XOD> Unfortunatly on websites you need to have a disclaimer now
[08:39] <gonzo_> I used to run an rtty link on cb when I was a teen
[08:39] <Ian_2E0XOD> You must remember the good old NASA days
[08:40] <m3eav> ugh, officious suits and pedantic rules the UK in a nutshell
[08:40] <Ian_2E0XOD> I agree
[08:41] <Ian_2E0XOD> Thanks for the chat Guy's must go now 73 to all Ian de 2E0XOD
[08:41] <m3eav> bye, take care seeya soon
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[08:49] <fsphil> morning
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[08:51] <m3eav> morning
[08:54] <fsphil> ooh it's a 200g balloon
[08:54] <fsphil> just reading the scrollback
[08:54] <fsphil> he said 300g yesterday
[08:54] <fsphil> I'll be even more impressed if it floats
[08:55] <number10> is that the intention
[08:55] <fsphil> well I'm not sure, they where not clear on that either
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[09:52] <anerDev> hi gusy
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[09:57] <Upu> if it floats its getting wet
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[10:00] <daveake> morning
[10:00] <fsphil> g'mornings
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[10:00] <m3eav> morning
[10:00] <daveake> When is the expected ISH for the Horncastle flight?
[10:00] <Upu> "today"
[10:01] <Upu> no flight doc though
[10:01] <daveake> ah
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[10:01] <daveake> and still aiming to float it? in the air?
[10:01] Action: fsphil shrugs
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[10:06] <gonzo_mob> midday was the last posting ish
[10:09] <PE2G> Hi all, there will also be a HAB from Emsdetten, Germany from 11 UTC
[10:09] <PE2G> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=57028a21840b60234461cd63b74e67335261e012
[10:09] <PE2G> Will use THOR4, no info on freq yet
[10:11] <PE2G> Expected burst 30 km, rx in UK should be possible
[10:11] <m3eav> is their a twiiter feed for ALL balloon launches(with notice) in the UK?
[10:14] <Upu> not a central one no the mailing list is where its at
[10:16] <Upu> right I'm off to paint the fence yay someone tweet me or something when its up pls
[10:17] <m3eav> Tyanks guys
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[10:38] <m3eav> ooh i see a ballon on spacenear.us:-)
[10:38] <m3eav> still not showing on fldigi active payloads list
[10:40] <fsphil> it won't appear there until they have an approved flight doc
[10:40] <LazyLeopard> Looks like a damp landing...
[10:40] <mfa298> and the second payload has appeared
[10:41] <fsphil> the prediction is assuming 30km burst
[10:41] <fsphil> will set that to 20
[10:41] <m3eav> i see, ok fsphil
[10:41] <iain_G4SGX> Hmm. No flight docs? Makes it a bit tricky upoading..
[10:42] <mfa298> I thought Jess was asking about that yesterday so it might just be no one has approved it
[10:42] <iain_G4SGX> Not much point in tracking..
[10:42] <fsphil> I don't recall
[10:42] <fsphil> I've set 20km burst, 4m/s ascent
[10:43] <mfa298> iain_G4SGX: as long as they have a payload doc you should be able to upload data, you just have to manaully select the payload doc
[10:45] <iain_G4SGX> ok
[10:46] <mfa298> looks like I wasn't imagining things.
[10:47] <mfa298> 14:41 < Jess--> Who do I need to speak to about getting a flight doc approved?
[10:48] <mfa298> iain_G4SGX: unless it gets approved before the flight you'll need to go into the DL Client settings and you can select the payload docs from the "All Payloads(testing)" tab.
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[10:48] <mfa298> there does appear to be payload docs for both payloads (whether they're correct will be a different matter)
[10:49] <Babs> Morning HAB fans. What is the one sentence summary of this morning's events, I've been out gardening
[10:49] <Babs> If you can call a 4mx4m slab of decking a garden
[10:50] <mfa298> In terms of this moenings HAB activities I think it can be sumarised as "Waiting"
[10:50] <Babs> Just looked on this http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[10:50] <Babs> That balloon is never going to lift that car
[10:50] <fsphil> todays flight is a lot of unknowns :)
[10:51] <Babs> ahhh, the famous Bushism. Are they unknown unknowns, or known unknowns?
[10:51] <daveake> Needs a full Babs of lift, then it might :)
[10:51] <Babs> When's your next launch fsphil?
[10:51] <Babs> daveake - I have my own proto glossary entry!
[10:51] <Babs> That was a tense 3.5 hours of flying last week
[10:52] <daveake> sure was!
[10:52] <fsphil> was hoping for today Babs but didn't get finished in time
[10:52] <mfa298> one the plus side it does look like both payloads might be within the bandwidth of the FCD Pro+
[10:52] <iain_G4SGX> Quite close to me, but I've got a church in the way, full of christians imagine, soaking up all that RF..
[10:52] <fsphil> so aiming for next weekend
[10:52] <Babs> what is the setup fsphil? are you aiming to fly over this way?
[10:52] <fsphil> antenna on the top of the church iain_G4SGX :)
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[10:53] <fsphil> Babs: Pi+Cam, and yep aiming to float - though floats atm are heading west
[10:53] <Babs> *wakes up arko
[10:53] <fsphil> not that far west :) i wish
[10:53] <iain_G4SGX> fsphil: I wish..
[10:53] <Babs> The Pi - is that moving to be the flight hardware of choice?
[10:54] <SpeedEvil> No.
[10:54] <Babs> You and daveake trailblazing a path
[10:54] <SpeedEvil> It's way too high power.
[10:54] <daveake> Well if you want to do SSDV it's a good option
[10:54] <SpeedEvil> For many things.
[10:54] <Babs> as in high power consumption SpeedEvil?
[10:54] <SpeedEvil> For short flights, and yes, SSDV, sure
[10:54] <SpeedEvil> yes
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[10:54] <SpeedEvil> Especially if you've got a camera, it's probably not a big additional draw
[10:55] <fsphil> the PiA+Cam is cheaper than a uart camera
[10:55] <daveake> and better pix
[10:55] <Babs> ahhh, ok. still at the beginning stage on this kind of thing.
[10:55] <Babs> I've got a spreadsheet up and running to try and work out the calcs for this whole twin balloon sky anchor thing
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[10:55] <LazyLeopard> Babs: Rumsfeld's the "unknown unknowns" man. Bush could never have put together anything nearly as coherent!
[10:56] Action: LazyLeopard ducks
[10:56] <Babs> Good knowledge LazyLeopard
[10:56] <Babs> what are the unknowns anyway?
[10:57] <fsphil> nobody knows
[10:57] <Babs> *arf
[10:57] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[10:57] <Babs> I guess that is the point of unknowns
[10:57] <daveake> balloon size, payload weight, ascent rate, burst alt, mission aims
[10:58] <Babs> daveake - brilliant.
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[10:58] <LazyLeopard> That about covers it. ;)
[10:58] <Babs> it's like a communist era space launch
[10:59] <daveake> j k i l these a few of my favourite thingsj k i l
[10:59] <Babs> Expect to see some grainy SSDV of a monkey floating at 30,000 metres
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[10:59] <Babs> or a burst on the launch pad (appears to be someone's driveway) quietly covered up
[10:59] <daveake> There was talk also of some water-based liquid plastic sealant thing to spray or pour inside the balloon to stop the helium leaking out
[11:00] <Babs> daveake - isn't it easier just to use a latex balloon rather than a paper bag?
[11:00] <daveake> :)
[11:01] <Babs> how the &&&& do you get an accurate coverage inside a balloon anyway?
[11:01] <pb0ner> is it correct BALCAN-ONE does not show up in the flights/payload list of dl-fldigi?
[11:01] <m3eav> does anyone know ifg anyone has made a program for the g-5500 az-el rotor that works withg an rtl or radio that can auto-track based on signal strength?
[11:01] <daveake> Interesting descent rate on one-a
[11:01] <m3eav> failing that a script/sware that uses the transmitted gps coords of the device aloft to track the rotor wth
[11:02] <daveake> Babs You don't and if it's water-based it'll freeze and ... well I don't think it's a good idea
[11:02] <Babs> daveake - its like the titles of Holby City
[11:02] <LeoBodnar> Have been discussing this auto tracker project in the office last week
[11:02] <mfa298> m3eav: there's habrotate that might work with what youve got
[11:02] <mfa298> https://www.thecraag.com/HABrotate
[11:02] <LeoBodnar> Using Meade telescope tracking base
[11:02] <cuddykid> http://i.imgur.com/yPuEbob.png unbelievable - been a long long time since I've seen that. Weather better not change in 2 weeks time! Got plenty of launches to do then..
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[11:03] <m3eav> thanks mfa298, will investigate that
[11:03] Nick change: mikemike -> Guest76334
[11:04] <m3eav> i built a manual tracker (tv rotor azimuth actuator for el) but it was to fiddly and tied your hands, so got all this gadgets and trimmings including a g-5500 and interface and thought how brilliant it owudl be if it could autotrack baloons or any oyher non keplar device based on signal or gps transmissions
[11:05] <m3eav> next i will get an auto-type keyboard that can spell too :-)
[11:05] Action: mfa298 wonders which payload isn't working - or do they have two balloons
[11:05] <mfa298> looks like Balcan-one-a is going up
[11:05] <fsphil> oh they've launched
[11:05] <daveake> yup
[11:05] <fsphil> both
[11:06] <mfa298> ah one has got data now.
[11:06] <daveake> 800m and 900m
[11:06] <mfa298> when I looked one-a was going up but one was still at 40m
[11:06] <m3eav> thanks for that mfa298, once i got it all setup i will try it out
[11:06] <daveake> 1000 and 1000m
[11:07] Action: daveake detects a pattern
[11:07] <fsphil> oh man
[11:07] Action: mfa298 suspects they've only got one radio at the launch site.
[11:07] <fsphil> it's stopped reporting altitude
[11:08] <cuddykid> I'm going to have that problem - only have 1 radio and have 3 transmitters - 2 GPS, 1 ssdv
[11:08] <pb0ner> is it correct BALCAN-ONE does not show up in the flights/payload list of dl-fldigi? the do show in configuration/all payloads-tab
[11:08] <mfa298> 1 significant figure
[11:08] <fsphil> 1000m to 2000m
[11:08] <daveake> well that's a new one
[11:08] <fsphil> totally
[11:08] <LeoBodnar> Is it rockoon?
[11:08] <fsphil> I can't think what's causing that
[11:09] <gonzo_> maths error?
[11:09] <mfa298> or formatting error if they're using some form of printf statement
[11:09] <daveake> GPS parsing is my guess
[11:09] <jcoxon> ummm
[11:09] <jcoxon> the raw data looks good
[11:09] <jcoxon> i think its a habitat issue
[11:09] <daveake> oh
[11:09] <jcoxon> oh wait
[11:10] <jcoxon> $$BALCAN-ONE-A,139,32,5317823,-9064,20187,5*5FC1\n
[11:10] <jcoxon> is altitude in cm?
[11:10] <gonzo_> freq?
[11:10] <fsphil> yea the raw data is odd
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[11:11] <m3eav> 434.202 /434.252 gonzo
[11:11] <gonzo_> or I clild just read the email
[11:11] <gonzo_> ta
[11:11] <m3eav> 450/7/n/2
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[11:11] <jcoxon> yeah thats habitat
[11:11] <fsphil> even 20187 should parse correctly
[11:11] <jcoxon> i think the filter is bust
[11:12] <fsphil> even though it's not at 20km wouldn't it show that?
[11:12] <jcoxon> so there is a filter to factor it by 0.1
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[11:12] <jcoxon> but round to 1
[11:12] <jcoxon> so habitat is correcting it but rounding to 1 place
[11:12] <jcoxon> rather then say 5
[11:12] <jcoxon> so we get 1000m jumps
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[11:15] <fsphil> rounding after the * 0.1?
[11:15] <GMT> Im not getting anything on 434.202 ... just a single tone ... is 434.252 any better?
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[11:16] <mfa298> I don't hear anything on either yet - although a lot of other noise on .202
[11:16] <G8KNN> good signals on both frequencies
[11:16] <mfa298> then again it should only have just come over my horizon
[11:17] <G8KNN> ryryxyryry BALCAN-ONE Radio Rebooted
[11:17] <jcoxon> refresh spacenear.us
[11:17] <jcoxon> i've fixed alt issue
[11:17] <m3eav> i am getting a very narrow band signal with significant doppler on .202, maybe local interference/temp oscilation?
[11:17] <LazyLeopard> Just about hearing something at 434.202.47
[11:19] <mfa298> jcoxon: is there a flight doc for these waiting to be approved ?
[11:19] <LazyLeopard> 434.253 is rather stronger
[11:21] <daveake> presumably the dodgy ascent rate is because there's no time field?
[11:22] <m3eav> flight track is drawing a nice pattern:-)
[11:22] <g4fui> AOS in Penrith (434.255255)
[11:22] <fsphil> spacenear appears rather confused
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[11:24] <S_Mark> That prediction accurate? Just wondering why chase if landing in middle of North Sea
[11:24] <jcoxon> they aren't txing time
[11:24] <jcoxon> so everything is a little confused
[11:24] <daveake> Actual ascent rate about 3.7
[11:24] <jcoxon> as it can't do the maths for ascent rate etc
[11:25] <fsphil> I'll just disable that prediction I think
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[11:25] <S_Mark> lol fsphil
[11:25] <S_Mark> It'll end up where it ends up then
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[11:26] <fsphil> wonder why it can't use the current time
[11:26] <LazyLeopard> Ah. I was looking at the string thinking it looked very odd, and completely missed lack of time...
[11:28] <fsphil> steady ascent
[11:28] <daveake> only 4 sats on one and 5 on the other
[11:28] <daveake> possibly the camera?
[11:29] <LazyLeopard> It likes rebooting....
[11:30] <GMT> getting decoeds now on BALCAN1A but no good ones yet
[11:32] <fsphil> I still keep reading that as BACON-ONE
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[11:32] <iain_G4SGX> Ooooh, Balcon-ONE just dramatically QSY'd
[11:33] <iain_G4SGX> Also Balcan 1 is stronger but less decodes..
[11:34] <GMT> what did it QSY to?
[11:35] <fsphil> it's further west than the prediction .. it might make land
[11:35] <iain_G4SGX> abt 300HZ higher
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[11:43] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[11:43] <mfa298> that's going to make life interesting with the payload switching between balloon and parachute symbols
[11:44] <cn8dn> hello
[11:44] <cn8dn> please
[11:44] <cn8dn> you with programs for raspberry
[11:44] <GMT> not so many trackers on Balcan1 ... I will switch to that one (if I can find its signal)
[11:44] <ibanezmatt13> I'm trying to pick Balcan 1 up to, can't get signal
[11:45] <iain_G4SGX> Balcan 1 now much weaker than ONE-A for me
[11:46] <GMT> B1 decoding nicely now
[11:46] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: you might need to tune around a bit to find them. they're not always on the exact frequency they say they shoudl be on
[11:46] <ibanezmatt13> oh right, you reckon I'll pick it up from here?
[11:46] <ibanezmatt13> Wigan
[11:46] <GMT> ... and everyone's scanner or receiver is tuned slightly differently on SSB
[11:47] <ibanezmatt13> what frequency are you on?
[11:47] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: it's worth a try, if you're inside the gree circle then it should be easy to find it.
[11:47] <GMT> my scanner reads 434.203, but another one says 434.201 ... take your pick ... somewhere in that area
[11:47] <ibanezmatt13> not inside green circle.
[11:47] <mfa298> if your only in the blue circle it might depend on how well stuff is setup and where the balloon is
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[11:48] <ibanezmatt13> I'm well within the blue one.
[11:48] <fsphil> you'll likely receive it then
[11:48] <ibanezmatt13> I suppose I have more chance of recieving when its quite high
[11:48] <fsphil> but it can also depend on local geography
[11:48] <Hix> has anyone used u.fl connectors on flight computer? Thinking that a u.fl to sma pigtail would be nice, simple and low bulk
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[11:48] <mfa298> as it goes up the circles will get bigger
[11:49] <ibanezmatt13> I wonder what frequency Upu's on? I'm quite near to him relatively
[11:49] <mattbed> just checked the tracker page to see how its all going, is it still going up or coming down? it keeps changing
[11:49] <GMT> UPU is on 434.252
[11:49] <mfa298> it may depend on where the antenna is. If you're at home you'll want the antenna on the same side as the house as the balloon. Bricks etc. usually aren't good for RF
[11:49] <ibanezmatt13> I'm upstairs, out of window, facing East :)
[11:49] <LazyLeopard> Dial 434.253.22 here
[11:49] <fsphil> any hills nearby?
[11:50] <iain_G4SGX> Or christians?
[11:50] <fsphil> hah
[11:50] <ibanezmatt13> Still can't pick anything up. No hills I'm afriad
[11:50] <ibanezmatt13> but where not in a dip or anything
[11:50] <ibanezmatt13> we're*
[11:50] <fsphil> annoyingly both these payloads are within the range of my FCD
[11:50] <LazyLeopard> Other one's on 434.203.01
[11:50] <fsphil> but I can't decode two at once
[11:50] <mfa298> ideally if you can, get the antenna outside - some windows will reduce the rf as well.
[11:50] <ibanezmatt13> it is outside :)
[11:51] <LazyLeopard> The lower one is seriously wobbly
[11:51] <LeoBodnar> Hix, I have
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[11:52] <Hix> there's no reason it should be any less effective than an SMA launch is there?
[11:52] <LeoBodnar> Hix - U.FL Just get/make a tool to detach them properly, they are a bit gentle
[11:52] <GW8RAK> I'm on 434.252.5
[11:52] <fsphil> nothign from either here yet, still below the horizon
[11:56] <m3eav> nothing on portland but my antenna is ten foot lower thasn last time temporarily
[11:56] <LazyLeopard> GW8RAK: Yeah, it's drifting back down
[11:57] <GW8RAK> ibanezmatt13 are you using your rubber duck aerial?
[11:57] <fsphil> altitude has stopped
[11:57] <ibanezmatt13> define rubber duck :)
[11:57] <fsphil> are they floating?
[11:57] <jcoxon> oh no
[11:57] <GW8RAK> short black rubber covered aerial
[11:57] <fsphil> or is habitat playing silly buggers again?
[11:57] <ibanezmatt13> no I'm not. Got a decent one :)
[11:57] <jcoxon> no i reckon it could be ublox portable mode
[11:58] <GW8RAK> what have you got?
[11:58] <Hix> my thinking is: http://goo.gl/7kRhs on the pcb connected to one of these http://goo.gl/QPt8U leading through payload to antenna mounted on this http://goo.gl/9GY34
[11:58] <ibanezmatt13> WSM-270
[11:58] <fsphil> isn't it 18km the normal mode cuts out at?
[11:58] <jcoxon> not on a ublox
[11:58] <jcoxon> 12km
[11:58] <LazyLeopard> Another reboot. It likes them...
[11:58] <fsphil> ah nuts
[11:58] <daveake> yup
[11:58] <ibanezmatt13> so it is probably still acsending?
[11:58] <m3eav> balcon1 still rising according ot speacnea\r
[11:58] <fsphil> well if I do receive it then I'll know it's ascending
[11:59] <iain_G4SGX> If all else fails.. reboot.. lol
[11:59] <LeoBodnar> HIx, I have used them - http://leobodnar.com/files/IMG_1211.jpg
[11:59] <m3eav> it just went from .145 to .160
[11:59] <mfa298> if it is float it was a very sudden transition from ascent to float.
[11:59] <fsphil> which is the stronger of the two?
[11:59] <LazyLeopard> Ho hum. Guess we're guessing altitudes now....
[11:59] <iain_G4SGX> yep, qsy'd for me earlier like that
[11:59] <LeoBodnar> If you don't want removable antenna, just get a long U.FL lead and solder one end
[11:59] <LazyLeopard> fsphil: Here it's the higher frequency one
[12:00] <mfa298> shame their not on IRC. I wonder if they're assuming its now floating rather than ascending ?
[12:00] <GW8RAK> ibanezmatt13, you may have trouble hearing it on that aerial. It's not particularly strong. Is the arial mounted on metal biscuit tin lid or similar?
[12:00] <fsphil> 434.250 LazyLeopard?
[12:00] <GW8RAK> Strong - signal from balloon
[12:00] <LazyLeopard> 252.8
[12:00] <fsphil> thanks
[12:00] <fsphil> tuned there, will see if anything appears
[12:00] <ibanezmatt13> it's mounted on something metal, and I'm quite elevated
[12:01] <Hix> nice board LeoBodnar http://leobodnar.com/files/IMG_1209.jpg other side is even better
[12:01] <Hix> though does that module work at altitude?
[12:01] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, nice
[12:01] <Hix> and have you got onboard usb programming?
[12:01] <LeoBodnar> Cheers, :)
[12:01] <g4fui> Both trackers are stuck at the same location/alt
[12:01] <GW8RAK> It's barely audible here without the preamp and I've got 10dB of gain on the aerial
[12:02] <LeoBodnar> Yes, USB configuration and firmware upload
[12:02] <jcoxon> those telit modules aren't cheap iirc
[12:02] <Hix> sweet, is it an ATMega?
[12:02] <mfa298> it must still be going up, I can hear the beginnings of some rtty where
[12:02] <mfa298> s/where/here/
[12:03] <jcoxon> yeah they haven't put the ublox into a flight mode
[12:03] <LeoBodnar> No, PIC24FJ series
[12:03] <jcoxon> it'll restart when it comes below 12km
[12:03] <LeoBodnar> GSM module is about £30 from memory
[12:04] <Hix> LeoBodnar: does that mean that you've had to write all the code from scratch?
[12:04] <Hix> whats to the left of the telit? are they smd electrlytic caps?
[12:04] <mfa298> now to see if I can work out which set of lines I need for Balcan-one
[12:04] <Hix> *electrolytic
[12:05] <LeoBodnar> Yes - and I do it in assembly as well lol. I just reuse the code from my other devices.
[12:05] <fsphil> ok it's just appeared on my waterfall
[12:05] <Hix> I'm assuming with that density its been flowed
[12:05] <LeoBodnar> Tantalum caps
[12:05] <Hix> ah, nearly
[12:05] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: what you tuned to?
[12:05] <Hix> very sweet board.
[12:05] <fsphil> 434.247 mhz according to this .. but it's inaccurate
[12:05] Action: Hix now looks at rev.2 board and sighs
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[12:06] <PE2G> Very good signal on 434.2538 here: http://s17.postimg.org/8cjqnw1qn/Screen900.jpg
[12:06] <fsphil> radios on 70cm tend not to be accurate
[12:06] <fsphil> you always need to tune around a bit
[12:06] <mfa298> for me the one on .253 seems to be stronger- although that could be local interference makign it harder to hear the rtty
[12:06] <GW8RAK> That's not inaccurate fsphil, that's just wrong :)
[12:06] <fsphil> lol GW8RAK
[12:07] <LazyLeopard> mfa298: Number of receivers on -A says it's not just you. ;)
[12:07] <fsphil> how do you know the speed of light just isn't slower here? :)
[12:07] <LeoBodnar> Hix, it's just Rev.A for me :) I am going to use different UHF chip as I want the UHF frequency to be disciplined by GPS 1PPS pulses. This needs finer UHF frequency correction as now.
[12:07] <fsphil> brb, lunch
[12:07] <jdtanner> Nice signal over here in the Peaks...but no 3.5mm cable to 3.5mm cable to track...sorry chaps.
[12:07] <ibanezmatt13> PE2G: where are you based?
[12:07] <LazyLeopard> Yet to get a clean line from -ONE
[12:08] <PE2G> ibanezmatt13: http://no.nonsense.ee/qthmap/?qth=JO32HI
[12:08] <Hix> LeoBodnar: are the ublox pulses really accurate then?
[12:08] <ibanezmatt13> wow!
[12:08] <LeoBodnar> I am receiving -ONE-A on a TV dongle original stick antenna in the living room. In Northants.
[12:08] <Hix> and I was thinking the telit was a satmodem :/ stupid me rtfm
[12:09] <g0hww> what are the rtty params for balkan one-a?
[12:09] <g4fui> 50bd 7N2
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[12:10] <LeoBodnar> Hix, around 30nsec accuracy
[12:10] <Hix> wow!
[12:10] <m3eav> rtty is 450/7/n/2
[12:10] <g0hww> thanks. good decode now
[12:10] <m3eav> 50 baud
[12:10] <PE2G> 470 Hz shift I have
[12:10] <g0hww> with 50bd
[12:10] <GW8RAK> agreed, 470Hz shift
[12:10] <LazyLeopard> Both are the same - 50 baud, 450 shift, 7N2
[12:10] <fsphil> oh it's falling
[12:10] <m3eav> oh well accordin gto spacenear it is 450?
[12:10] <fsphil> signal gone here
[12:10] <LazyLeopard> Wow! Green decode from -ONE ;)
[12:11] <fsphil> yea, must have burst
[12:11] <GW8RAK> Not dropping very quickly
[12:11] <m3eav> not high enough for my temp antenna pos on portland
[12:11] <m3eav> not had anything....boo hoo
[12:11] <GW8RAK> or is that the right descent rate for the altitude/air density?
[12:12] <fsphil> I could be wrong, but faded quite fast here
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[12:12] Nick change: [1]G8KNN -> G8KNN
[12:12] <gonzo_> quite a wobble then
[12:13] <fsphil> oook, it's back
[12:13] <fsphil> I must have been wrong
[12:14] <fsphil> this is a very weird flight
[12:14] <LazyLeopard> Like the old times. ;)
[12:15] <LazyLeopard> Anyone doing direction-finding yet? ;)
[12:15] <x-f> :)
[12:15] <m3eav> lol, both going in opposite diorectiosn now?
[12:16] <mfa298> need some elevation based DF to get a height
[12:16] <ibanezmatt13> still not got anything. What is the lowest and highest frequency it could be. I'll scan between them
[12:17] <LazyLeopard> 434.250 to 434.255 is a good range to sweep the dial over.
[12:17] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: you should find it within a few khz of the advertised frequency
[12:17] <GW8RAK> You won't hear it now ibanezmatt13, it's very weak here
[12:17] <GMT> I think B1A is stronger, so try between 434.250 and 434.255
[12:17] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[12:18] <cuddykid> just tuned in - have we got a GPS problem? Cocom limit?
[12:18] <GMT> yup
[12:18] <LazyLeopard> and yup, and yup
[12:18] <cuddykid> ah, that's annoying
[12:18] <cuddykid> what GPS?
[12:18] <mfa298> agreed, stick to B1A it seems to be a much more stable signal. I think I'm just starting to hear B1 but it's appearing and disappearing very quickly
[12:19] <LazyLeopard> Even B1A is being a bit wobbly here at times. B1 has been wobbly all the time.
[12:20] <mfa298> sounds a bit like it could have a poor radiation pattern and be spinning/swinging a bit
[12:20] <ibanezmatt13> would does 7n2 mean
[12:20] <mfa298> 7 bits, no parity, 2 stop bits
[12:20] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[12:22] <Phil_M0DNY> cuddykid: ublox, not in airborne mode.
[12:23] <mfa298> if it kept up the previous rate i should be around 20km now
[12:23] <Upu> that burst ?
[12:23] <Upu> wtf
[12:23] <Upu> lol
[12:23] <ibanezmatt13> I've got something near left end of waterfall
[12:23] <ibanezmatt13> how do I shift it to the right?
[12:23] <Upu> retune then
[12:23] <Upu> thats burst
[12:24] <Upu> where actually is it ?
[12:24] <gonzo_> bot sure it's burst, looks to be bobbong about
[12:24] <m3eav> Hope they got wellies, very long ones......
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[12:25] <Upu> oh not in flight mode
[12:25] <Upu> easy mistake to make I guess not like its well documented
[12:25] <Upu> oh wait
[12:25] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/best_variable_dipole_ever.jpg
[12:25] <mfa298> Guestimating with the flight path and the prediction I'd guess it's somewhere over boston
[12:26] <Upu> should kick in as it drop below 12000 meters
[12:26] <gonzo_> yep, just frozen values. The bobbing I saw was prob bit errors
[12:27] <Upu> it will just be returning garbage atm
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[12:27] <GW8RAK> signal strength coming back up
[12:28] <Upu> BALCAN-ONE-A Radio Rebooted
[12:28] <Upu> needs more than that to fix it :)
[12:28] <LazyLeopard> Aye
[12:28] <LazyLeopard> It's got very faint here.
[12:29] <Upu> unless the code doesn't recover....
[12:29] <LazyLeopard> I'd have thought, based on signal strength, that it'd be well below 12km by now.
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[12:30] <mfa298> I'm still decoding and I don't think I could hear it when it was at 12km before
[12:30] <Upu> is the altitude its reporting now accurate ?
[12:30] <Upu> 7184
[12:30] <mfa298> although I think I've lost B1
[12:31] <Upu> why isn't that appearing on spacenear.us ?
[12:31] <ibanezmatt13> should I tick RV?
[12:31] <Upu> screen shot what you can see
[12:31] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/best_variable_dipole_ever_outside.jpg :D
[12:31] <LazyLeopard> If you're on LSB rather than USB, then yes.
[12:31] <Upu> its not RV, make sure your receiver is in USB
[12:31] <mfa298> isn't the 7184 lat/long.
[12:32] <GW8RAK> It's going up according to my data now
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[12:32] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: https://www.dropbox.com/s/aj6yxkkfs73qz04/dl.png
[12:32] <iain_G4SGX> yep me too
[12:32] <mfa298> I think altitude is the field that's currently around 120660
[12:32] <Upu> thats not it ibanezmatt13
[12:32] <ibanezmatt13> ah
[12:32] <Upu> tune up and down a little
[12:33] <ibanezmatt13> I have been doing
[12:33] <Upu> 434.252
[12:33] <GMT> ... and open up the filter bandwidth to about 200
[12:33] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[12:33] <ibanezmatt13> should rv be on
[12:33] <GW8RAK> Is there a quick way of taking a screenshot in Win7?
[12:34] <Upu> should look like this : http://i.imgur.com/xljjoeW.jpg
[12:34] <Upu> alt + prt scn
[12:34] <GW8RAK> ty
[12:34] <ibanezmatt13> I've not put the freq into dl-fldigi
[12:34] <daveake> GW8RAK snipper for sections
[12:34] <Upu> don't worry about that
[12:34] <Upu> tbh just listen to the radio
[12:34] <Upu> you'll hear it
[12:34] <ibanezmatt13> ty?
[12:35] <Upu> don't plug it into the PC just tune about till you hear something you'll know you've got it
[12:35] <ibanezmatt13> I'm getting noise
[12:35] <Upu> you've not got it then
[12:35] <ibanezmatt13> I've got RTTY!
[12:35] <ibanezmatt13> 434.0720 That can't be right one
[12:35] <Upu> probably not rtty
[12:36] <g0hww> http://www.g0hww.net/2013/06/balcan-one-a.html
[12:36] <GW8RAK> You won't hear it now ibanezmatt13; I've got 25dB of gain and it's only S2
[12:36] <Upu> This flight didn't follow the six P's rule
[12:36] <Upu> Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
[12:36] <GW8RAK> What is the altitude doing? Has something crashed?
[12:37] <Upu> code issues
[12:37] <Upu> signal is still strong here
[12:37] <Upu> unless...
[12:37] <Upu> its floating ?
[12:37] <ibanezmatt13> it's definitely RTTY
[12:37] <GW8RAK> Drifting quite quickly now
[12:37] <Upu> what was the ascent rate prior 12km ?
[12:37] <daveake> 3.7 I calculated
[12:38] <Upu> well that would float a 1600g
[12:38] <Upu> just
[12:38] <daveake> It's a 300
[12:38] <daveake> or 200
[12:38] <daveake> or maybe a 100
[12:38] <number10> or
[12:38] <daveake> 2 metres
[12:38] <Upu> a 2meter actually get it right
[12:38] <mfa298> based on my signal I'd guess its not far above 12km now
[12:38] <qyx_> wasnt that made to float?
[12:38] <qyx_> someone mentioned it yesterday
[12:38] <Upu> we don't think they understood what float meant
[12:39] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/best_variable_dipole_ever_in_action_from_55cm_to_33cm.jpg =)
[12:39] <ibanezmatt13> two yellow lines! Don't know what this is though
[12:39] <Upu> screen shot
[12:39] <daveake> are they moving together?
[12:39] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[12:40] <ibanezmatt13> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0t6vzsm6pd79ac8/dl1222.png
[12:40] <Upu> not it
[12:40] <ibanezmatt13> it won't tune in properly though
[12:40] <ibanezmatt13> oh
[12:40] <Upu> tune the radio to 434.251
[12:41] <ibanezmatt13> tuned in to that now, nothing...
[12:41] <Upu> is the antenna outside ?
[12:41] <daveake> That signal looks like your payload is it still running?
[12:41] Jess-- (bc1dae5f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.29.174.95) joined #highaltitude.
[12:41] <LeoBodnar> Frequency shift probably reflects the onboard temperature
[12:41] <ibanezmatt13> could be actually
[12:41] <daveake> lol
[12:41] <Upu> payload is still strong from mine
[12:41] <daveake> turn it off!
[12:41] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[12:42] <Upu> haha
[12:42] <LeoBodnar> And altitude
[12:42] <Upu> some explain how AGC's work :)
[12:42] <GW8RAK> down to .251 now
[12:42] <mfa298> I've lost the signal now so based on ascent it's close to 12km
[12:42] <Upu> ok
[12:42] <GMT> you said the before
[12:42] <Jess--> balcan one a seems to be messed up, balcan-one seems to be holding ok, not sure whats going on with the altitude reporting
[12:42] <ibanezmatt13> ok it's off
[12:43] <daveake> Jess-- We are
[12:43] <daveake> ublox not in flight mode
[12:43] <Upu> getting temp drift now
[12:44] <GW8RAK> AFC can't keep up with the drift
[12:44] <Jess--> checked and double checked, should be in flight mode, but it did get some weird results at low altitude to, went smooth up to 1000m then steps to 4000m and then smooth again
[12:44] <Upu> 100% not in flight mode
[12:44] chrisg7ogx (6d9cf8e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.156.248.226) joined #highaltitude.
[12:44] <Jess--> freq shift is lower for warmer temps
[12:45] <Upu> are you using tinygps ?
[12:45] <daveake> Jess-- The altitude-in-steps was to do with the conversion in habitat
[12:45] <daveake> jcoxon fixed it earlier
[12:45] <ibanezmatt13> still nothing on 434.252 Upu
[12:45] <GMT> BALCON1 gps back
[12:46] <Upu> sure ?
[12:46] <qyx_> both falling
[12:46] <qyx_> maybe
[12:46] <mfa298> they both seem to be reporting a reasonable altitude. but position isn't where id expect them to have been
[12:46] <GMT> B! alt readings ... 14058, 14218, 14368, 14506, 14649
[12:47] <Upu> alt seems to be correct
[12:48] <chrisg7ogx> both now suddenly gone here
[12:49] <Jess--> suspect they will be lost in the wash
[12:49] <iain_G4SGX> drifting up now..
[12:49] <ibanezmatt13> will I be able to hear the RTTY clearly if I pick it up on my radio?
[12:50] <Jess--> yes it was the tinygps Upu
[12:50] <chrisg7ogx> no ships of any size showing up on AIS http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/
[12:50] <Upu> ok suspected as much
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[12:51] <Wouter-[pa3weg]1> hello all
[12:51] <iain_G4SGX> VERY drfity uppy
[12:51] <Wouter-[pa3weg]1> I´m out i the field
[12:51] <Wouter-[pa3weg]1> no signal on 434.252?
[12:51] <m3eav> drifty uppy? Is that a scientific term:-)
[12:52] <Upu> you need a boat Jess
[12:52] <iain_G4SGX> Oh yes,
[12:52] <Upu> and a code review
[12:52] <qyx_> why they seem to be descending on the altitude graphs?
[12:52] <chrisg7ogx> gary moore out in the field classic..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsKpazeA5L8
[12:52] <Upu> because they are coming down
[12:53] <m3eav> the opposite of a fally downy i guess?
[12:54] <Jess--> certainly looks like the payloads will be lost, going to head in the general direction just in case but I dont hold out much hope
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[12:54] <iain_G4SGX> Is the map postioin accurate?
[12:54] <Upu> suspect so now
[12:55] <Upu> it was in the default portable mode which has an altitude cap of 12km
[12:55] <Upu> deviation is this mode is pretty good so thats likely to be very accurate position
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[12:56] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[12:57] <Upu> Hey Brian
[12:57] <ibanezmatt13> is it only at 12km?
[12:57] <ibanezmatt13> will it not go any higher?
[12:57] <Upu> ibanezmatt13 this wasn't a good one to track
[12:57] <daveake> It did earlier
[12:58] <daveake> It's coming down now
[12:58] <Upu> one of the radios had a dicky signal
[12:58] <ibanezmatt13> ah well.
[12:58] <Upu> and the was a bug in the code
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[12:58] <daveake> The GPS was left in a mode where it won't work above 12km
[12:58] <ibanezmatt13> what bug?
[12:58] <Upu> so the GPS stopped @ 12km
[12:58] <Upu> not putting the GPS in flight mode
[12:58] <Upu> 2.9km and still strong in Yorkshire
[12:59] <ibanezmatt13> I don't think I know how to do that either. I guess it's just a matter of writing to the gps some sort of comamnd to set flight mode?
[12:59] <Upu> yep
[12:59] <daveake> yes
[12:59] <Upu> see wiki
[12:59] <jdtanner> doh :/
[12:59] <daveake> like the ones to turn off NMEA sentences that you don't want
[12:59] <jdtanner> Bummer :(
[12:59] <ibanezmatt13> ok :)
[13:00] <LazyLeopard> Looks like it'll be getting wet shortly.
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[13:00] <fsphil> who broke the map?
[13:00] <Upu> Balcan 1 :)
[13:00] <GMT> there's another NOTAM for this weekend, a launch from Birmingham ... anyone heard anything?
[13:02] <Upu> fading for me
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[13:03] <LeoBodnar> What is positional accuracy in flight mode on U-BLOX?
[13:03] <Upu> high deviation
[13:04] <Upu> no idea what that means but +/- 5 meters possibly
[13:04] <Upu> its about 2 meters in portable
[13:04] <Upu> if that
[13:04] <LeoBodnar> Dynamic mode switch then
[13:04] <iain_G4SGX> Glug, nio trace anymore
[13:04] <Upu> I switch from fligth to pedestrian below 1km
[13:04] <Upu> ..then landed on a 1.6km mountain last time :/
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[13:05] <Upu> right afk fence painting
[13:05] <fsphil> I stick with flight mode - accurate enough I think
[13:05] <LeoBodnar> How do you check if mode switch was successful?
[13:05] <fsphil> the ublox will reply to the command with an ACK
[13:05] <fsphil> or you can query it to see what mode its in
[13:05] <LeoBodnar> ACK that
[13:06] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Upu enjoy, i made enough damage today, so ill stay inside :-)
[13:06] <fsphil> it's best to query, then set it if it's not avaiation
[13:06] <fsphil> then it'll still work even if the gps resets for some reason
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[13:07] <fsphil> howdy Balcan
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[13:10] <chrisstubbs> what on earth happened to balcan-one-A
[13:11] <GMT> seemed to be a very poor signal from B1A
[13:11] <jdtanner> flight-mode wasn't enabled, so hit a 12km software ceiling :(
[13:12] <chrisstubbs> aw man :(
[13:12] <LeoBodnar> What have we learned?
[13:12] <LeoBodnar> TX time!
[13:12] <LeoBodnar> Set flight mode
[13:12] <LazyLeopard> ...and B1 suffered exactly the same issue, with added wobblyness on signal.
[13:13] <m3eav> houdl have a checklist at launch time
[13:13] <LeoBodnar> Keep UHF frq stable
[13:13] <chrisstubbs> and i guess when it hit the 12k limit thats why it jumped around so much?
[13:13] <LeoBodnar> Checklist: 1. Have checklist
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[13:13] <fsphil> yea the gps will do odd things when above its limit
[13:14] <LazyLeopard> 0. Read WIKI. There's probably at least one checklist ther already. ;)
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[13:14] <LeoBodnar> Is there info out there of what equipment was used on this flight?
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[13:24] <m3eav> catch you next time guys...byeee
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[13:31] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar, just a tracker and 808 cam i think
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[14:09] <griffonbot> @daveake: Babbage Bear on the operating table to have some of the Right Stuff(ing) replaced by a #raspberry_pi tracker #UKHAS http://t.co/dnvFM3cZ8l [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/341194924722630656]
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[14:21] <monkeymonkey> Hi. Looking for advice on a suitable launch site.
[14:22] <monkeymonkey> Am based in the South East, near Guildford, but so are lots of airports. Does anyone know of any sites within an hour or so of there that have been used please?
[14:26] <griffonbot> @asbradbury: RT @daveake: Babbage Bear on the operating table to have some of the Right Stuff(ing) replaced by a #raspberry_pi tracker #UKHAS http://t.c& [http://twitter.com/asbradbury/status/341199260626329600]
[14:26] <jdtanner> The sites near Cambridge? I think they are 2hrs away though.
[14:27] <jdtanner> Maybe try and find a site in the South Downs?
[14:28] <mfa298> i don't think there have been many launches in that area.
[14:29] <mfa298> you might just need to look at some predictions and choose a site based on them and then see if you can get permission from the CAA
[14:29] <monkeymonkey> OK, thanks. I was wondering about going somewhere like Salisbury.
[14:29] <mfa298> in some locations you might have restrictions based on when the airports open or windo directions
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[14:29] <monkeymonkey> Yes, we had CAA permission for a launch in Petworth, Sussex last Autumnn, but it had tight constraints on wind direction so couldn't go ahead.
[14:30] <mfa298> One was launched from southampton a year ago but I think that had a launch before 7am condition
[14:30] <monkeymonkey> I'm hoping to find a site that we can still go ahead whatever the wind direction.
[14:31] <mfa298> South Downs or New Forest might bw worth a try. I know mattbrejza did a launch from the northern edge of the new forest earlier this year. I'm not sure if that had so many restrictions
[14:32] <mfa298> although that might be more then a 1 hour drive from where you are.
[14:33] <monkeymonkey> That's fine - I don't mind going a bit further if there's a high chance we'll be able to launch.
[14:33] <griffonbot> @ukscone: RT @daveake: Babbage Bear on the operating table to have some of the Right Stuff(ing) replaced by a #raspberry_pi tracker #UKHAS http://t.c& [http://twitter.com/ukscone/status/341200971646509057]
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[14:34] <ibanezmatt13> Have we had a splash down?
[14:36] <jcoxon> looks like it
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[14:39] <ibanezmatt13> is it safe to upload test data to the server now? I'd like to test my payload :) Made some slight changes
[14:40] <mfa298> probably, but don't quote me on that (I don't think anyone else has announced a flight).
[14:41] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: go for it. can always clear your test data if it's an issue
[14:41] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks :)
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[14:49] <ibanezmatt13> I'm on spacetracker now. Am I definitely allowed?
[14:50] <ibanezmatt13> Have all the HAB flights ended?
[14:54] <ibanezmatt13> I managed to get a piece of RG74 coaxial cable before for my NTX2 antenna
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[14:55] <griffonbot> Received email: Benjamin Freeth "[UKHAS] Looking To Make Contact With High Altitude Balloon Explorers
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[14:57] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: best trick is to keep an eye on the mailing list. People generally announce on their if they're flying (and I'm only aware of the earlier one being announced today)
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[15:02] <SpeedEvil> <AsktonH> To switch the devices to low power, you just do (as root) "echo 0x0 > /sys/devices/platform/bcm2708_usb/buspower". To switch power back on : "echo 0x1 > /sys/devices/platform/bcm2708_usb/buspower"
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> - over on #raspberrypi
[15:03] <SpeedEvil> This is basically suspending all USB devices, and drops a B's power use close to an A
[15:03] <SpeedEvil> (but sometimes oopses)
[15:03] <daveake> interesting
[15:05] <fsphil> cool
[15:05] <fsphil> though the A is cheaper :)
[15:05] <daveake> and lighter :)
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> True, of course.
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> Technically true.
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> Actually quite a bit as it doesn't have the jack, thinking about it
[15:06] <fsphil> yea that seems the heaviest part
[15:10] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Looking To Make Contact With High Altitude Balloon
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[15:33] <ibanezmatt13> What are the results of today's flights?
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[15:34] <fsphil> they highlight the importance of testing
[15:35] <mfa298> and the importance of communication
[15:35] <ibanezmatt13> oh right, so not a raging success
[15:36] <ibanezmatt13> Have they been recovered?
[15:36] <fsphil> though to be fair, you can't test a ublox at > 10km without either a simulator or actually flying it
[15:36] <ibanezmatt13> true
[15:36] <fsphil> but the flight mode thing is quiet well documented
[15:36] <ibanezmatt13> is there no way of checking that flight mode has been enabled during testing?
[15:36] <fsphil> yea you can query it
[15:36] <fsphil> I think there's code on the wiki for it
[15:36] <ibanezmatt13> Was it an ATMega board?
[15:37] <mattbrejza> and if its acks the config
[15:37] <mattbrejza> *it
[15:37] <fsphil> on swift i had it query the current mode, and if it wasn't flight mode it set it
[15:37] <fsphil> did that every minute or so
[15:37] <mattbrejza> mine just sets it every few sentences
[15:37] <ibanezmatt13> both ways is better than not at all :)
[15:37] <fsphil> indeed
[15:37] <mattbrejza> if it isnt working then theres not much i can do os i dont bother querying :P
[15:38] <fsphil> true true
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[15:38] <mattbrejza> i can tell if its working as the code also disables sentences
[15:38] <ibanezmatt13> I'm currently uploading my payload test data to spacenear.us/tracker
[15:39] <ibanezmatt13> My NTX2 has no antenna yet, but it's in the garden, and I'm upstairs in the house and it's decoding fine. Not bad eh :)
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[15:40] <fsphil> the range of these things always impresses me
[15:40] <G4MYS> not hearing a thing on either freq in Southampton is there a problem with Belcan 1?
[15:40] <fsphil> they're swimming in the sea G4MYS
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[15:40] <qyx_> they are already drowned
[15:40] <qyx_> drown
[15:41] <ibanezmatt13> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-R5zyNoIaHU4/UWrc2n6P6zI/AAAAAAAABTk/xsqZ0TyUdeU/s1600/IMG_2021.JPG I've been looking at that, but even though daveake explained to me, I can't seem to fully understand where those four parts of that wire are going to...
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[15:41] <G4MYS> Arrr they may explain a lot Tracker is showing them at 419 M hopr it was a good chase, for you all not a good day for me today!
[15:41] <S_Mark> thats my pic
[15:41] <S_Mark> they arent
[15:41] <fsphil> I don't think I decoded any data from them
[15:41] <S_Mark> just taped down
[15:42] <ibanezmatt13> oh right. So how you connected to NTX2?
[15:42] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/5431825038/
[15:42] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: the four bits of wire on the box all connect to the braid of the coax
[15:42] <fsphil> it's that, taped down
[15:42] <S_Mark> well the straw in the middle is housing the corse of the coax
[15:42] <S_Mark> core*
[15:43] <ibanezmatt13> what do you mean that the four bits of wire connect to the braid of the coax? I can't visualise it...
[15:43] <S_Mark> http://www.stratodean.co.uk/2013/03/payload-part-two.html
[15:44] <S_Mark> lol early vid
[15:44] <mfa298> do you know what coax cable looks like inside ?
[15:44] <ibanezmatt13> no :\
[15:44] <mfa298> there's a central conductor, then an insulator and then another conductor (usually braided / platted)
[15:45] <S_Mark> watch the video
[15:45] <ibanezmatt13> watching it
[15:45] <mfa298> the central conductor is what's known as a driven element and points down (for a balloon)
[15:45] <S_Mark> the cable is the coax, unbraided to about 17cm
[15:45] <S_Mark> takes flipping ages
[15:46] <fsphil> yep :)
[15:46] <fsphil> requires zen meditation
[15:46] <S_Mark> http://www.stratodean.co.uk/2013/04/the-gps-tracker.html
[15:46] <S_Mark> there is a pic on there
[15:46] <fsphil> I cheat now
[15:46] <S_Mark> of it unbraided
[15:46] <fsphil> cut off most of the braid, make four stumps out of what is left
[15:46] <fsphil> then solder four wires onto them
[15:47] <S_Mark> that is a cheat :p
[15:47] <S_Mark> where is the fun in that haha
[15:47] <fsphil> I'm slightly more sane after it :)
[15:47] <Hiena> So true.
[15:47] <x-f> haha
[15:48] <x-f> i once tried to do this with a RG213
[15:48] <x-f> never again
[15:48] <fsphil> ooch
[15:48] <ibanezmatt13> didn't realise you could link it to the NTX2 with a normal connector :)
[15:49] <mfa298> that depends on what you mean by normal ;)
[15:49] <mfa298> but you can use something like an sma if you want or you can just solder directly onto the ntx2
[15:49] <cuddykid> made some more little soldiers - I hope these work otherwise this is going to be a real gamble
[15:49] <ibanezmatt13> Which would be more feasible for me?
[15:50] <mfa298> depends on how easily you want to be able to disconnect things
[15:50] <fsphil> you can put little sma sockets onto stripboard
[15:50] <S_Mark> thats what I did
[15:50] <ibanezmatt13> is there not a chance of it coming undone?
[15:50] <fsphil> I had to use a small drill bit to widen the holes
[15:50] <S_Mark> same
[15:50] <cuddykid> if you want to reuse go down the SMA connector route
[15:50] <mfa298> sma shouldn't come undone.
[15:50] <ibanezmatt13> I'll do that then :)
[15:50] <fsphil> normally not but you can always put a little tape on it
[15:51] <mfa298> but make sure you're not using rp-sma (as used on wifi devices) on part of it.
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[15:51] <fsphil> no that would be silly
[15:51] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[15:51] <fsphil> the whole -RP thing is annoying
[15:51] <ibanezmatt13> I'm really pleased with my tracker so far. It's working on spacenear.us./tracker perfectly! :)
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[15:53] <mfa298> who ever thought the -rp was a good idea should be taken outside and ...
[15:53] <ibanezmatt13> well, powering down now for a barbecue :) Have fun :)
[15:54] <fsphil> nice
[15:54] <ibanezmatt13> indeed :)
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[15:56] <anerDev> hi guys !
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[16:07] <daveake> hateful job
[16:07] <daveake> ^ making gp radials from coax
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[16:10] <Babs> I found it quite pleasant daveake
[16:11] <daveake> You're strange :p
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[16:11] <eroomde> i like making cables and connectors
[16:11] <Babs> If you think that is strange, I did hand plait 20m of cord for BABSHAB and gave myself RSI in the process
[16:11] <eroomde> provided you have the right tools
[16:11] <eroomde> it's quite zen
[16:12] <Babs> There is something therapeutic about doing a nice tidy job of things
[16:12] <daveake> indeed
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[16:13] <eroomde> yes
[16:13] <Babs> We looked at buying a business that made the actuators for A380s a year or so back
[16:13] <Babs> the toroid winding things they made were fantastically beautiful examples of neatness
[16:15] <daveake> I remember as a kid wonder HTF toroidal transformers get wound in a factory
[16:15] <daveake> wondering
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[16:16] <Babs> These were all by hand, but I think its just because they were high spec
[16:17] <Babs> More toroidal neatness http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/6065191561/in/set-72157627369539467
[16:18] <eroomde> golly
[16:19] <mfa298> thats impressive
[16:19] <daveake> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98q4Ic6UL7c
[16:19] <daveake> You might want to FF that a bit
[16:19] <Babs> All held together by friction. For once I didn't need a half litre of UHU-POR to keep it all together
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[16:20] <Babs> Although folding the individual components together on a 6 hour train journey did lead one bemused passenger to enquire whether I was a drug dealer making wraps for crack
[16:20] <daveake> lol
[16:22] <Babs> If I have a daughter I am going to get her a toroid winding machine so she can wipe the floor with her friends when it comes to pom pom making
[16:22] <eroomde> lucky her :)
[16:23] <fsphil> you don't know if you have one?
[16:23] <eroomde> it's the crack
[16:24] <fsphil> hmm.. I smell food
[16:24] <fsphil> someone's having a bbq
[16:25] Jess-- (51a81682@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.168.22.130) joined #highaltitude.
[16:26] <Jess--> Many thanks to all that monitored the Balcan-One launch today
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[16:27] <S_Mark> found it yet?
[16:28] <Jess--> gone without trace, I had garbled rtty down to 391m
[16:28] <LazyLeopard> Into the Wash?
[16:29] <Jess--> yeap, couldnt have got nearer the middle of the wash if we tried
[16:29] <chrisstubbs> I would imagine there is a reasonable chance of it getting washed up there
[16:30] <LazyLeopard> Tumbled in the mud...
[16:31] <Jess--> It may get washed up, there's contact details attached to each payload, I know the electronics will be useless but it would be nice to retreive the memory card from the camera
[16:31] <LazyLeopard> What sort of container?
[16:32] <Jess--> polystyrene so it should float pretty well
[16:32] <fsphil> did you check the predictor before launching? it had it splashing down
[16:32] <LazyLeopard> Yeah.
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[16:33] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, the predictor was saying its landing was going to be wet, but there was some debate about burst height.
[16:33] <Jess--> the last point we checked the predictor it was showing a good south track, ending between spalding and peterborough
[16:34] <Jess--> always knew it was a big risk this close to the coast
[16:34] <Jess--> hence the budget payloads
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[16:34] <LazyLeopard> Ah. Something must've changed significantly after your last check.
[16:35] <number10> what size was the balloon Jess-- ?
[16:36] <Jess--> 1m balloon
[16:36] <fsphil> when we say size, we mean weight
[16:37] <fsphil> many balloons can be 1m in size depending how you fill it :)
[16:37] <eroomde> mass
[16:37] <eroomde> /pedant
[16:37] <Jess--> Think it had a lifting capacity of 300g
[16:37] <fsphil> that's not what we mean either
[16:37] <eroomde> they're not specified by capacity either
[16:37] <Jess--> I dealt with the trackers rather than the balloon
[16:38] <eroomde> they're specified by their own mass
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[16:38] <number10> how far it travels is all down to the mass of the balloon, the payload, and how much lift you have
[16:38] <eroomde> eg a 1600g balloon a lot of us use is so named because it has a mass of 1.6kg
[16:38] <Jess--> so the gps not being in flight mode was my fault, and I need to get to the bottom of that
[16:38] <eroomde> indeed - you probably would have got erronious results from the predictor/calculator if you don;t know the balloon mass
[16:38] <fsphil> you're not the first to do that :)
[16:39] <number10> you need to have these things measured before predicting where the balloon may land
[16:39] <Jess--> what's annoying me is that I have 2 init strings for the gps, one pedestrian mode and one flight mode, I know 100% that what flew was using the flight mode init
[16:40] <eroomde> i think the ublox should acknowledge when you change its settings
[16:40] <Babs> You can even get erroneous results if you *know* the balloon mass
[16:40] <Babs> I definitely didn't measure anything incorrectly. Really.
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> alions.
[16:41] <eroomde> mass flow is a completely solved problem for simple gases like He and H
[16:41] <eroomde> i will make a thing
[16:41] <eroomde> an open mass flow meter
[16:42] <eroomde> i do this all the time for test rigs at work, there's no reason it shouldn't work for hab
[16:42] <eroomde> it'll be a little box with gas in and gas out and will turn a volve on and then off again after a certain mass of helium has gone in
[16:43] <SpeedEvil> :-)
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[16:44] <Laurenceb_> you're convinced this will be more accurate than measuring lift?
[16:44] <eroomde> you can buy calibrated orifice plates off the shelf
[16:44] <eroomde> you then just measure the drop across them with a differential pressure meter
[16:44] <Laurenceb_> i've got one on my face
[16:44] <eroomde> and the upstream pressure
[16:44] <Jess--> I'm thinking we probably hit 20,000m does that seem right with what you can see of the graph?
[16:44] Action: SpeedEvil avoids searching for calibrated orifice.
[16:44] <eroomde> and the BS tables give you a polynomial to turn that into a mass flow
[16:44] <Babs> I really like how people build stuff on this site. No one builds stuff anymore.
[16:44] <Babs> It gets me all nostalgic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-j5XWo1fPI
[16:45] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: lift doesn't work very well with transverse winds
[16:45] <Laurenceb_> surely if you measured lift with a strain gauge sensor
[16:45] <Laurenceb_> and averaged over a few seconds
[16:45] <Laurenceb_> or longer..
[16:45] <Laurenceb_> i guess you need to wait a while
[16:45] <eroomde> what if it's windy?
[16:46] <eroomde> windy is zero-mean
[16:46] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[16:46] <eroomde> isn't*
[16:46] <Laurenceb_> yeah i guess if there is a velocity gradient
[16:46] <Laurenceb_> which there probably will be
[16:46] <eroomde> mass flow just works
[16:46] <Laurenceb_> heh
[16:46] <Babs> I'm going to try an alternative to eroomde's jazzy open mass flow meter using stuff that is at the limit of my own technical ability
[16:46] <Laurenceb_> using orifice or hot wire?
[16:46] <eroomde> orifice
[16:46] <Laurenceb_> ok
[16:47] <Laurenceb_> i guess thats pretty accurate without complex cal
[16:47] <Babs> *googles "How to make a pair of calipers 6ft wide + formula for measuring the volume of a sphere"
[16:47] <Laurenceb_> ive built those before, but used crappy honeywell sensor with bad warm up drift
[16:47] <Laurenceb_> so it didnt work well
[16:47] <eroomde> they go a bit non-sphere at either end
[16:47] <eroomde> i'll just use ones from RS
[16:48] <eroomde> can build it into a peli case
[16:50] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[16:51] <eroomde> Babs: if only i could share what i'm building next :)
[16:51] <eroomde> i can't say how excited i am
[16:51] <eroomde> but the quantity is a lot
[16:53] <Babs> You're very excited, or you are building a lot of them?
[16:54] <fsphil> I think it's just 1
[16:54] <fsphil> probably a pizza oven or something
[16:54] <Laurenceb_> rocket motor
[16:54] <Babs> I am wondering whether the 4 years to 2017 is enough time for me to learn sufficient C++ to get a camera pointing at the centre of an eclipse shadow as the shadow moves across earth, while the camera moves freely in space
[16:54] <fsphil> pizza rocket
[16:55] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[16:55] <Laurenceb_> maybe i should try this
[16:55] <fsphil> basic sun tracker
[16:55] <Laurenceb_> imagine if the balloon popped to early or something
[16:55] <fsphil> even though it's eclipsed, it'll still be the brightest thing in the sky
[16:55] <Laurenceb_> EPICALLY PWNED
[16:55] <Babs> eroomde - I want to visit your workshop
[16:55] <Laurenceb_> 4 years wasted
[16:56] <Laurenceb_> but yeah itd be extremely epic
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[17:14] <Babs> Logging in from the train is a royal pain in the a
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[17:15] <eroomde> Babs: 1) yes come and visit and 2) yes I/m sure you can learn enough c or c++
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[17:15] <Babs> Are you in Oxford? whereabouts?
[17:15] <eroomde> i'd learn c as it's the lingua franca of systems engineering and embedded
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[17:15] <eroomde> I live in oxford, but work is the former Rocket Propulsion Establishment at Westcott
[17:15] <eroomde> bewteen bicester and aylesbury
[17:15] <Babs> Is there a good primer (c for dummies or something)
[17:15] <eroomde> learn c the hard way
[17:15] <eroomde> is very good
[17:15] <Babs> is that the title?
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[17:16] <eroomde> that's a free online book title, rather than my being flippant
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[17:16] <Babs> I basically want to do it the way that I learnt basic on the Apple II
[17:16] <eroomde> http://c.learncodethehardway.org/book/
[17:16] <Babs> Get some simple programs, built up and mess around with the code, breaking, rebreaking and combining
[17:17] <Babs> *Babs attempts to quickly download book before he disappears under the Severn
[17:17] <eroomde> this is probably the thing then.
[17:17] <eroomde> there's a big emphasis on you typing in and testing a snippet each chapter then prodding and breaking it
[17:17] <eroomde> and fixing it
[17:17] <fsphil> I like C, at it's basic level it's really simple
[17:17] <eroomde> i like the mental model
[17:17] <eroomde> and i like that it doesn't have nasty suprises
[17:18] <fsphil> yea
[17:18] <eroomde> sometimes with python a really nice datastructure that lets you write what you think is Correct code will turn out to be 100 times slower than something else
[17:18] <eroomde> just because of some quirk of how the datastructure is called in cpython
[17:18] <eroomde> and classes are just a bit slow in python
[17:19] <eroomde> i guess pypy should help but anyway, details
[17:19] <fsphil> strings can sometimes be a bit ackward in C
[17:19] <eroomde> yes
[17:19] <eroomde> everything is an exercise fopr the reader
[17:19] <fsphil> and I like the try { } catch error handling style
[17:19] <fsphil> which C doesn't have
[17:19] <eroomde> need to dissappear for 5 for the next round of oven cleaning
[17:20] <cuddykid> daveake: is it best to power pi via test points?
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[17:22] <daveake> They're convenient, and better than using the micro usb socket :)
[17:22] <cuddykid> no difference to using gpio rail?
[17:23] <daveake> Well it's bypassing the GPIO connector, but no not really
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[17:39] <cuddykid> pi powered on using batt pack :)
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[17:54] <cuddykid> for some reason my pi home directory decided it wasn't a directory anymore
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[17:58] <cuddykid> hm, getting rather large freq shifts with my new power supply when (i think) it's taking photos
[17:59] <cuddykid> fsphil: any idea why I'm getting what I'm getting http://ssdv.habhub.org/ ?
[18:00] <cuddykid> I'll reboot it and hope it's just a rogue :)
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[18:05] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, when i ahd image probl;ems i set fswebcam to skip the first 9 images or so
[18:06] <chrisstubbs> possibly just becuase the eyetoy is a POS though ;)
[18:06] <chrisstubbs> brb dinnertime
[18:06] <chrisstubbs> ^typo failure
[18:09] <cuddykid> I think it's power supply problems
[18:09] <cuddykid> silly chinese regulator
[18:10] <cuddykid> issue is now I've soldered it up to pi, I can't accurately check the output voltage it's outputting
[18:11] <cuddykid> when I take a reading it's being affected by the reg on board pi
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[18:19] <cuddykid> yeah, was power supply probs
[18:19] <cuddykid> cranked it up to some unknown level :P - next thing I know the onboard reg will probably blow
[18:19] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[18:31] <ibanezmatt13> I've been trying to implement error checking into my code so that while it's in the stratosphere, it doesn't fail... https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5694404 Once the program's got going, it never fails. However, occasionally when I execute the program, it hangs at the line where it reads the GPS.
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[18:33] <benjaminfreeth> I'm trying to locate groups or individuals in the North East of England with an interest in HAB - is there anyone currently online from or close to that area?
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[18:33] <ibanezmatt13> I'm here!
[18:33] <ibanezmatt13> Sorry, read that wrong :(
[18:33] <ibanezmatt13> North-West :)
[18:33] <benjaminfreeth> ok thats quite close!
[18:34] <benjaminfreeth> Where abouts in the NW?
[18:34] <ibanezmatt13> Greater Manchester, prepared to travel anywhere in the country for Habbing though :)
[18:34] <benjaminfreeth> I m Newcastle based so NW is only like an hour away
[18:34] <benjaminfreeth> ha ha
[18:34] <ibanezmatt13> What you planning?
[18:34] <benjaminfreeth> ah ok little bit further
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[18:35] <Upu> Hi benjaminfreeth
[18:35] <Upu> I'm in Halifax
[18:35] <benjaminfreeth> Well i m based at Newcastle University and I'm working with a microcontroller platform called .NET Gadgeteer. I d really to use it and get a group together to try out some HAB launches
[18:35] <fsphil> cuddykid: missed that, get it sorted?
[18:35] <benjaminfreeth> Hi Upu
[18:35] <fsphil> was it corrupt locally?
[18:35] <Upu> politely don't use the Gadgetter
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[18:36] <cuddykid> fsphil: yeah - problem with power supply
[18:36] <mfa298> based on the previous experience of a group using gadgeteer, stay well away from it
[18:36] <benjaminfreeth> ah ok. I use arduino too.
[18:36] <Upu> thats fine
[18:36] <Upu> they work well
[18:36] <cuddykid> I failed to realise that the batts I were using were almost dead - hence not giving out 5v via the reg
[18:36] <benjaminfreeth> ah whats up with the power supply with it?
[18:36] <Upu> I think cuddykid has an issue with a Raspberry Pi PSU ?
[18:37] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: You planning on doing a launch soon?
[18:37] <benjaminfreeth> ah ok... so the launch failed because the batteries werent supplying the correct voltage (at 5V) but the gadgeteer board which runs at 3.3v was working fine?
[18:37] <Upu> in a month or so
[18:37] <cuddykid> Upu / benjaminfreeth yeah, was trying to power pi from AAs (via reg) - kept acting funny - because batts were almost dead and only 4.2v was getting through to pi
[18:37] <Upu> but down south
[18:37] <benjaminfreeth> shame
[18:37] <cuddykid> on a plus note, found out the pi can work on lower voltages than expected
[18:37] <mfa298> benjaminfreeth: I think you're getting confused with different payloads / groups
[18:37] <Upu> I have a pico payload
[18:37] <benjaminfreeth> ha ha - ok
[18:38] <ibanezmatt13> I was going to ask, where is the best place for launching HABs? I'm prepared to travel anywhere in the country. :)
[18:38] <Upu> which I may wang up at some point when predictions are favorable
[18:38] <cuddykid> ibanezmatt13: where are you based?
[18:38] <benjaminfreeth> i think other microcontrollers can run at variable volatges? like arduino can be run at 3.3volts too
[18:38] <Upu> Manchester :)
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> hello everyone
[18:38] <Upu> hi Lunar
[18:38] <ibanezmatt13> Yes, Manchester :)
[18:38] <Upu> I run the "arduino" at 1.8v
[18:38] <mfa298> I think a lot of the issues with the gadgeteer were related to garbage collection messing up the timing
[18:38] <ibanezmatt13> But my Dad says we can go absolutely anywhere :)
[18:38] <Randomskk> mfa298: I think there were a lot of issues ;)
[18:38] <mfa298> it was also much bigger and heavier than most other payloads
[18:38] <Upu> you'll probably need too what with that small airport
[18:39] <cuddykid> ibanezmatt13: hm - maybe somewhere around here - Worcester
[18:39] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: you're always welcome to come launch from the CUSF site in Cambridge
[18:39] <Randomskk> we have an ongoing launch permission
[18:39] <cuddykid> usually winds go east so you're left with a lot of country before the sea :)
[18:39] <Upu> oh I'm helping out with that school launch down there sometime aren't I
[18:39] <Randomskk> but it's a bit closer to the sea than other places
[18:39] <benjaminfreeth> yok good advice around Gadgeteer - thanks for that
[18:39] <fsphil> yea the last few gadgeteer launches didn't go well
[18:39] <mattbrejza> the latest issue was caused by dodgy cables between gadgeteer modules
[18:39] <mfa298> Randomskk: although half the other issues were with how the group were doing working rather than gadgeteer itself.
[18:39] <ibanezmatt13> That would be good. Ideally, I wanted to launch on the same day as another flight so that I could meet up with some people and get some experience :)
[18:40] <Upu> coming along to a launch is well recommended
[18:40] <benjaminfreeth> i d like to do that too (<ibanezmatt13> That would be good. Ideally, I wanted to launch on the same day as another flight so that I could meet up with some people and get some experience :))
[18:40] <Randomskk> mfa298: you'll note I didn't say there were a lot of issues with gadgeteer specifically :P
[18:40] <benjaminfreeth> When is the next launch happening?
[18:40] <benjaminfreeth> and where?
[18:40] <Upu> well there is meant to be a launch next weekend with a school but i've not heard from them
[18:40] <cuddykid> well, I've got a few going up in 2 weeks time
[18:40] <benjaminfreeth> ah ok
[18:40] <Upu> do you have a radio benjaminfreeth ?
[18:41] <Upu> as getting some practice tracking is invaluble
[18:41] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: well, the offer's open. email contact@cusf.co.uk if you want, so long as it's inside university term there'll be people around with experience who can help out
[18:41] <ibanezmatt13> That's great, I'll keep that in mind, thanks :)
[18:41] <benjaminfreeth> no i was hoping someone on here near to the north east would have a radio - i can pretty much get or make everything else - the radios the missing part of the equation for me
[18:41] <Upu> get an SDR
[18:41] <Upu> they are £10
[18:42] <cuddykid> wow, what a difference a good clean 5v makes for the pi
[18:42] <Upu> but you're welcome to come to Halifax with your design and I can check it out / verify reception etc
[18:42] <benjaminfreeth> Cheers Upu - that would be great
[18:42] <cuddykid> they definitely need to get it sorted so you can power it properly from batt supply for next revision
[18:42] <benjaminfreeth> i m checking out the SDR online
[18:42] <Upu> cuddykid just remove the supplied regulator
[18:43] <Upu> benjaminfreeth http://dx.com/p/mini-dvb-t-digital-tv-usb-2-0-dongle-with-fm-dab-remote-controller-92096
[18:43] <cuddykid> Upu: still, would be nice if it was different to begin with. Now, I'm just feeding in 5v to gpio rail - works a treat
[18:43] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[18:43] <Upu> apparently they don't need 5V you just need to put something on it
[18:43] <Upu> so you can power the lot from 3.3v
[18:43] <benjaminfreeth> was lookoing at this:
[18:43] <benjaminfreeth> http://www.wosars.org.uk/blog/software-defined-radio-£10-usb-receiver
[18:44] <benjaminfreeth> i ll check those links - thanks for sending them through
[18:44] <Upu> I trimmed the step up off a PAVA board for Dave to use
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[18:44] <ibanezmatt13> I've looked at the Wiki for payload materials, and there's a lot of good info. But how do I create the actual box? Do I have to mould the box myself?
[18:44] <Upu> ibanezmatt13 old polystyrene box or make it out of house insulation and Uhu Por
[18:44] <Upu> you'll need a hot wire cutter though
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[18:45] <mfa298> benjaminfreeth: that looks like a similar thing to the links upu gave
[18:45] <Upu> ibanezmatt13 https://plus.google.com/photos/118244444241111963790/albums/5520396694145470305?banner=pwa
[18:45] <ibanezmatt13> thanks Upu! Lots of good pics on there :)
[18:45] <Upu> smaller one : https://plus.google.com/photos/118244444241111963790/albums/5721284963524937009?banner=pwa
[18:45] Nick change: fsphil_ -> fsphil-m
[18:46] <mfa298> they're a great way of testing you can recieve your payload. and with a decent antenna (and optionally a pre-amp) they're good for tracking other peoples flights
[18:46] <Upu> also ibanezmatt13 https://plus.google.com/photos/118244444241111963790/albums/5866449031725163409?banner=pwa
[18:46] <ibanezmatt13> thanks :)
[18:46] <Upu> you can see Dave's Pi one
[18:47] <Upu> and my PAVA APRS which is just in a poly ball
[18:47] <Upu> inane smiling face is optional
[18:47] <fsphil-m> But recommended :-)
[18:47] <Upu> https://plus.google.com/photos/118244444241111963790/albums/5866449031725163409/5866449172647436210?banner=pwa&pid=5866449172647436210&oid=118244444241111963790
[18:47] <ibanezmatt13> Was Eben there?
[18:47] <Upu> yeah
[18:47] <Upu> https://plus.google.com/photos/118244444241111963790/albums/5866449031725163409/5866449144879607490?banner=pwa&pid=5866449144879607490&oid=118244444241111963790
[18:47] <ibanezmatt13> I have a problem...
[18:48] <ibanezmatt13> I need a Raspberry Pi Cam Module for my launch. Yet, the delivery date into many companies is only 19th August!
[18:48] <benjaminfreeth> has anyone tried this with success : Note on Antennas For testing all that is really needed is a piece of wire 164mm (1/4 the wave length of a 434Mhz signal) pushed in the end of the dongle. A small 433/434Mhz stub antenna screwed in the end will also suffice. Neither of these will allow you to track real flights unless they are extremely close.
[18:48] <benjaminfreeth> ?
[18:48] <benjaminfreeth> Great pictures of the payload build - really clear
[18:48] <Upu> yep for local testing fine
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> benjaminfreeth: tried what/
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> benjaminfreeth: For local - a papeclip will work fine
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> Anything 10-1000mm
[18:51] <benjaminfreeth> ok thanks SpeedEvil. The notes suggest its not up to tracking a proper launch - what equipment are you using for tracking instead?
[18:51] <benjaminfreeth> ok Upu - you have had success with this to for local testing
[18:51] <Upu> Yep
[18:52] <Upu> I flew a stub : https://www.dropbox.com/s/v7ypm5amkkn10p0/2012-12-20%2018.16.04.jpg and it was ok but not as good as a proper quarter wave
[18:52] <mfa298> benjaminfreeth: people use a range of things for tracking payloads from the ground. Part of it depends on how much you want to spend
[18:52] <Upu> you can make a quater wave for tracking out of some old TV coax
[18:52] <ibanezmatt13> I guess with Habbing you can't request permission from CAA to launch "anywhere" can you? There are lots of fields where I live, but it's near to the flight path. How do you know where you're likely to get permission form?
[18:52] <Upu> the trick is get it high
[18:53] <mfa298> there's a list of the sorts of things people use on the ground for tracking on http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[18:53] <benjaminfreeth> Could you recommend something that will work beyond testing in the workshop but for a tight budget please?
[18:53] <Upu> sure the USB dongle
[18:53] <Upu> + a home made quarter wave on the roof
[18:53] <Upu> or
[18:53] <Upu> Watson W50 / Diamond X50 on the roof
[18:53] <Upu> plus a HABAmp
[18:53] <benjaminfreeth> ok so the USB dongle + quarter wave built from old TV coax will suffice - thanks Upu
[18:53] <S_Mark> benjaminfreeth: I started this process about 6 months ago, have had 2 launches, I documented every nearly step in our project here: stratodean.co.uk!
[18:54] <benjaminfreeth> thanks for the link mfa298 - checking that now
[18:55] <mfa298> for a cheap start the usb sdr dongle, a home made antenna and a hab amp is a good place.
[18:56] <Upu> tbh benjaminfreeth there is a lot of information
[18:56] <Upu> I'd just read peoples blogs like Stratodean
[18:56] <mfa298> spending a bit more best options are probably the FT790 or FCD Pro+ instead of the usb sdr
[18:56] <Upu> get an idea for what you want etc
[18:56] <Upu> if you have a little more money the Fun Cube Dongle is way better
[18:57] <Upu> but for testing just get a crappy TV dongle
[18:57] <Upu> but yes http://www.stratodean.co.uk/ is a good place to start
[18:57] <S_Mark> Cheers upu :p
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[18:58] <S_Mark> hello
[18:58] <benjaminfreeth> Thanks everyone i'm going to do some reading and check those links - cheers for your advice thats great
[18:58] <Upu> Dave Akermans www.daveakerman.com is good
[18:59] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/ is amazing best blog evar
[18:59] <daveake> lol
[18:59] <S_Mark> haha
[18:59] <mfa298> I wonder who's blog that is :p
[19:00] <cuddykid> if frequent updates don't float your boat - head over to http://habe.acudworth.co.uk/blog :)
[19:00] <Upu> anyway benjaminfreeth I guess we've overloaded you with info
[19:00] <Upu> best bet is just hang about here
[19:00] <Upu> you'll pick up a lot just by being here
[19:00] <fsphil-m> I need to start this weblog nonsense :-)
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[19:00] <cuddykid> for me it's a case of - oh, haven't posted in a few months.. why not write something :)
[19:01] <mfa298> I probably ought to put more stuff on my blog.
[19:01] <mfa298> one page isn't really a blog
[19:02] <fsphil-m> It kinda is
[19:03] <daveake> Keep 'em wanting more
[19:04] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.hindleys.com/index.php/materials/plastics-foam/sheet/styrofoam-high-density-polystyrene-foam/styrofoam-sheet-600mm-x-1245mm-x-25mm.html That Ok for my box?
[19:05] <Upu> yep used it a lot works well
[19:05] <Upu> you'll need a hot wire cutter too
[19:05] <ibanezmatt13> I'll get one of those
[19:05] <Upu> and some Uhu Por glue
[19:05] <ibanezmatt13> okie dokie :)
[19:05] <Upu> and some pink gaffer tape
[19:06] <S_Mark> Defo need the glue, I used a sharp knife with success
[19:06] <Upu> last part is very important
[19:06] <S_Mark> Bright yellow :p
[19:06] <Upu> is for loosers
[19:06] <S_Mark> haha
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> Unless it's got a raspberry pi inside, when it should be red
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13> Mine's got a Pi inside
[19:08] <cuddykid> yeah, I've been using bread knife for past years
[19:08] <ibanezmatt13> I need red...
[19:08] <ibanezmatt13> Do I definitely need a hot wire cutter?
[19:08] <cuddykid> though, I caved in a bought a hot wire blade thing a couple of days ago
[19:08] <cuddykid> ibanezmatt13: no
[19:08] <Babs> purists love scalpels
[19:08] <cuddykid> ibanezmatt13: bread knife will do
[19:09] <ibanezmatt13> alright :) thanks
[19:09] <cuddykid> but it's harder to cut camera holes (especially wide angle go pro) - hence I've got one of these on order - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230981196413?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
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[19:11] <ibanezmatt13> what are these things like http://www.hindleys.com/index.php/materials/plastics-foam/sheet/styrofoam-high-density-polystyrene-foam/foam-cutter.html ?
[19:12] <Upu> never used one but probably ok
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> I'll probably get one of those then. I have a bread knife as a backup :)
[19:14] <fsphil> I need a good cutter for making the inside cavaty
[19:14] <ibanezmatt13> So I've got my program working almost perfectly now. The error checking in place currently is as follows: I check for a particular NMEA sentence, and only if it has a lock will it send anything to NTX2. I know that's not perfect, but I'm working on it. However, sometimes when I first load the program, it freezes on the gps.readline() part and doesn't budge. Which basically means the GPS hasn't got a lock. How shall I modi
[19:15] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5694404
[19:15] <fsphil> gps still sends lines even without a lock
[19:15] <fsphil> your problem is elsewhere
[19:16] <ibanezmatt13> My program only sends to NTX2 if it has a lock at the moment
[19:16] <fsphil> though I'm not sure what it could be
[19:16] <ibanezmatt13> That's definitely why. I want it to do this, but if it does for some reason fail, I need some way of restarting the whole python program
[19:17] <fsphil> or some kind of timeout
[19:18] <ibanezmatt13> that's what I thought. But if it's constantly trying to read the GPS, how can I make a timeout
[19:18] <ibanezmatt13> ?
[19:18] <PaulCDR> evening everyone,
[19:18] <PaulCDR> i finally got my tracker built, http://imgur.com/nspkPPP
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[19:19] <PaulCDR> dodgy soldering and all, anyone forsee any issues with the ntxt so close to the GPS?
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[19:20] <mattbrejza> yea thats not close :P
[19:20] <fsphil> I'd be mostly worried about vibration on the gps module
[19:20] <fsphil> with it sticking out like that
[19:20] <fsphil> though if it's well supported by the container it's going in, won't be a problem
[19:20] <chrisstubbs> where did you have that etched PaulCDR?
[19:21] <fsphil> using smd resistors, nice
[19:21] <PaulCDR> fsphil, the battery holder on the bottom sits flush on the board, i think its stable.
[19:21] <fsphil> so much neater than through hole
[19:21] <PaulCDR> i got it etched using the gonaked service from spirit circuits
[19:22] <Upu> looks good PaulCDR
[19:22] <fsphil> yea should be fine then
[19:22] <fsphil> just keep wires away from the antenna
[19:22] <PaulCDR> i didnt realize how small the smds were till they arrived
[19:22] <Upu> heh
[19:22] <fsphil> I thought I'd broke mine a while back, turned out to be just a wire from the battery sitting beside the gps antenna
[19:22] <Upu> if you can see them
[19:22] <Upu> they aren't small :)
[19:22] <Babs> PaulCDR - mine was closer, and worked fine last weekend http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8626446162/in/set-72157632733154985
[19:23] <PaulCDR> lol, for my first attempt at a circuit board, they were small
[19:23] <Upu> I approve of the GPS module you're all using
[19:23] <fsphil> lol
[19:23] <chrisstubbs> PaulCDR, free PCB's :O Whats the catch?
[19:24] <Upu> no catch
[19:24] <chrisstubbs> it looked home etched at first but the holes are far too neat :P
[19:24] <Upu> no solder mask or nice stuff
[19:24] <chrisstubbs> do you ahve to buy other stuff from them or is it just... free?
[19:24] <chrisstubbs> *have
[19:24] <Upu> they just do this free service
[19:25] <Upu> its a nice idea loss leader I suspect
[19:25] <chrisstubbs> thats nice of them
[19:25] <PaulCDR> no, i hope no one here works for spirit circuits, but i they do you 3 or 4 prototype boards for you to perfect your design on the exception they get an order from you.
[19:26] <PaulCDR> that was my second board, the first one had some layout problems so tweaked the design a bit and got my second board done
[19:26] <chrisstubbs> cool :)
[19:27] <chrisstubbs> But yeah the solder mask is worth the money for some SMD jobs
[19:27] <PaulCDR> its called their naked service. copper and holes and thats it.
[19:27] <PaulCDR> oh and its 2 layer
[19:28] <PaulCDR> all through hole plating
[19:28] <griffonbot> @Pauletas_Cjr: @Larsen_LD: @Pauletas_Cjr ya Bosh queimou... Mas eu acho que vão passar eu tenho a certeza bro. E nós tbm. #CUSF ( nosso grito ) [http://twitter.com/Pauletas_Cjr/status/341275052748201984]
[19:28] <cuddykid> ha
[19:28] <Upu> oh reminds me
[19:28] <cuddykid> new name for CUSF - "nosso grito"
[19:28] <Upu> I'll just leave this here : http://i.imgur.com/oFvzVnc.png
[19:29] <mattbrejza> chrisstubbs: http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mfb2g09/old/IMG_2523.JPG dont need a solder mask for smd...
[19:29] <PaulCDR> just need to figure out an antenna now and hopefully launch in 6 weeks.
[19:30] <chrisstubbs> wow someone has a steady hand, neat
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[19:30] <mattbrejza> helps to have decent stuff to solder with
[19:31] <PaulCDR> what goes onto that UPU?
[19:31] <Upu> its an Arduino shield
[19:31] <Upu> with a GPS and a transmitter on it
[19:32] <Upu> prototype
[19:32] <PaulCDR> way over my head by the looks of it.
[19:33] <Upu> its basically what you and Babs have put together just integrated on a board
[19:33] <PaulCDR> so no breakout boards?
[19:33] <Upu> thats the one
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[19:34] <PaulCDR> i see now, the ublox on the top right???
[19:34] <Upu> correct
[19:34] <PaulCDR> nice, what transmitter do you use for that?
[19:34] <Upu> LMT2
[19:35] <Upu> its like the NTX2 you have
[19:35] <Upu> but frequency agile and with better stability
[19:35] <PaulCDR> are they much more expensive?
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[19:36] <Upu> yeah about £15 more
[19:36] <Upu> but you can pick the frequency you want to transmit at
[19:36] <Upu> and they have a TCXO so signal drift is considerably less
[19:40] <PaulCDR> as i said, im hoping to launch in about 6 weeks on the west of northern ireland, has anyone got a guide or a link of what i need to do so i can use the tracker
[19:41] <Babs> This may have a very basic answer, but...
[19:41] <Babs> If I am looking to get an output from my arduino of a 3-axis orientation, why does everything seem to point towards an accelerometer?
[19:42] <Babs> I would have thought that an accelerometer is only useful if velocity is changing
[19:42] <Upu> PaulCDR you need to visit http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[19:42] <Upu> you make a payload document
[19:42] <Upu> once thats done you can check upload to spacenear.us
[19:42] <chrisstubbs> babs you are being accelerated by gravity
[19:42] <Babs> If a platform is just on a tilt but stationary, why would an accelerometer help?
[19:42] <Upu> then before launch day you need to make a flight document and get it approved
[19:43] <Babs> chrisstubbs - so is it detecting acceleration as the Earth rotates and my orientation in a frame of reference stationary in space moves then?
[19:44] <russss> I never really understood that
[19:44] <russss> but it will give you the vector of gravity
[19:45] <chrisstubbs> its just detecting the 9.81 acceleration downwards i guess
[19:45] <chrisstubbs> 9.81ms-2
[19:45] <russss> despite the fact that it's not being accelerated
[19:45] <PaulCDR> ok, seams straight forward. cheers. does dl-fldigi upload to habhub hten?
[19:45] <Upu> yep
[19:45] <Upu> are you transmitting anything yet ?
[19:46] <Babs> So if I get this fellow http://www.amazon.co.uk/3-Axis-Digital-Accelerometer-Grove-%C2%B116g/dp/B00BL8EW72/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370202012&sr=8-1&keywords=3-axis+digital+accelerometer then I should be able to write a pretty simply sketch to get it outputting x, y and z ?
[19:46] <russss> " The proper acceleration measured by an accelerometer is not necessarily the coordinate acceleration (rate of change of velocity). Instead, the accelerometer sees the acceleration associated with the phenomenon of weight experienced by any test mass at rest in the frame of reference of the accelerometer device. For example, an accelerometer at rest on the
[19:46] <russss> surface of the earth will measure an acceleration g= 9.81 m/s2 straight upwards, due to its weight."
[19:47] <chrisstubbs> and from what i understand, theoretically in freefall it would measure 0
[19:47] <russss> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_acceleration
[19:47] <chrisstubbs> someone like eroomde would probably know more
[19:47] <Babs> I presume it just outputs variable voltages out of three outputs depending on orientation, which I then just push into the arduino and detect three variables, which through multiplication of some factor I still have to work out, will give me the x,y and z?
[19:47] <PaulCDR> yeah, i think i have the code working ok http://imgur.com/MO5q5w7
[19:48] <mattbrejza> whta are you trying to measure Babs ?
[19:48] <russss> damn you relativity
[19:49] <Babs> mattbrejza - I want to ultimately get my camera to point to a specific point on the ground from the balloon wherever it is located in space (including upwards, not just x,y,z)
[19:49] <Babs> So I am thinking that the ublox gives me a lat, long and alt
[19:49] <mattbrejza> youll need gyro and compass too
[19:50] <Babs> my specific point on the ground is defined by a lat, long and alt
[19:50] <mattbrejza> an accelerameter wont tell you what direction you are pointing in
[19:50] <mattbrejza> a compass will work okish if youre rotating slowly and level
[19:51] <Babs> based on the two points I can calculate an orientation that the camera has to be at (defined by a line going from the point on the ground, through the front of the lens and out the back of the camera)
[19:51] <mattbrejza> do you intend to control it, or just wait until it swings into that direction?
[19:51] <mattbrejza> either way to get orientation youll need a 9 axis accel/gyro/compass sensor
[19:52] <Babs> and use a couple of servos to move the camera until the orientation of an accelerometer fixed to it matches the orientation I require
[19:52] <Babs> control it, active
[19:53] <mattbrejza> yea youll need to look at kalman filters
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[19:53] <Babs> If you imagine one of those Police, Camera, Action videos where they are chasing some hoodlum with a thermal imaging camera and whereever the helicopter is, the guy is in the middle of the frame, I'm looking to do that
[19:54] <Babs> only my hoodlum is stationary, and I won't have a human controlling the camera, just a couple of servos
[19:54] <chrisstubbs> Babs, http://bit.ly/149r963
[19:55] <mattbrejza> well good luck with that :P
[19:55] <PaulCDR> UPU, do you know what it means in dl-fldigi "Warning! caught runtime_error: habitat::unmergeableError"
[19:55] <chrisstubbs> knew i had seen that before
[19:55] <PaulCDR> is this because i have no payload setup
[19:57] <Babs> mattbrejza, if the mount is pretty stationary from a rotational perspective, if altitude isn't changing much then the movements needed should be quite small
[19:57] <mattbrejza> i suppose if things are stable it might make things easier
[19:58] <mattbrejza> depends how accurate you want to be
[19:58] <mattbrejza> you could just use a compass to work out where you are pointing and assume you are flat
[19:58] <Babs> I am thinking that if I can replicate this, rotating around the horizontal and vertical shouldn't be too demanding http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8845053028/
[19:59] <mattbrejza> yea might only need a comapss then
[20:00] <Babs> mattbrejza - yes, I think combining the http://bit.ly/149r963 and then having a stepper on the up/down which is just manually calibrated according to altitude and a calculated bearing should be a good approximation
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[20:00] <mattbrejza> should probably speak to ed though
[20:00] <mattbrejza> he knows this somewhat better than me
[20:00] <Babs> But as there are plenty of arducopters which are using a similar thing as a stability aid, I presume doing the whole thing in three axes should be pretty doable
[20:01] <Babs> don't know, just thinking about things at the moment. thanks.
[20:01] <mattbrejza> the quadcopter things have 9 axis sensors in them
[20:01] <mattbrejza> (well at least 6)
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[20:05] <griffonbot> @stratodean: Been working on a new tracker for STRATODEAN Three allll day! Going to be seeing this in my sleep! #schematic #ukhas http://t.co/YSPtA93VcZ [http://twitter.com/stratodean/status/341284551013834752]
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[20:08] <PaulCDR> how are people powering their trackers?
[20:09] <mattbrejza> 2x AAA lithums
[20:09] <PaulCDR> energizer??
[20:09] <mattbrejza> yea
[20:10] <PaulCDR> 3v?
[20:10] <mattbrejza> yea
[20:10] <Upu> depends really
[20:10] <Upu> mine runs from a single AA
[20:10] <Upu> or AAA
[20:10] <Upu> but depends on the regulator
[20:11] <PaulCDR> is that an arduino based one?
[20:11] <Upu> well sort of
[20:11] <Upu> its an ATMega328
[20:11] <PaulCDR> atmega chip based one?
[20:11] <PaulCDR> ahh
[20:11] <Upu> and I write the software in Arduino environment
[20:11] <Upu> I took the design for an Arduino Pro and modified it
[20:12] <PaulCDR> what about power for mine, what are the recommendations?
[20:12] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=383
[20:12] <mattbrejza> 3xAA + LDO
[20:12] <Upu> are you using an 5V arduino board ?
[20:13] <Babs> Your 9-axis advice was correct mattbrejza http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GVXqNLLH7Q
[20:13] <Babs> this just uses it in 3 separate chips rather than combined
[20:14] <PaulCDR> yeah, the arduino uno r3
[20:14] <Upu> ok 4 x AA then
[20:14] <mattbrejza> 9 axis is needed if everything is moving around and a bit nuts, but you might be able to get away with something easier
[20:14] <Upu> just checking the regulator used on the Uni
[20:14] <Upu> Uno
[20:14] <Upu> its probably a Micrel one
[20:15] <Babs> mattbrejza - might as well do a proper job first time!
[20:15] <Upu> hmm
[20:15] <Upu> NCP11117
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[20:16] <mattbrejza> if you do it 'properly' you might not need such a stable platform
[20:16] <mattbrejza> but it depends on how mobile the rotating part is
[20:16] <Upu> 1.2V drop
[20:16] <Upu> I'd be using 4 cells
[20:17] <mattbrejza> 1.2 is a bit crap really
[20:17] <Upu> its alot crap
[20:17] <PaulCDR> so 4 AA's in a holder it is then
[20:17] <PaulCDR> energizer lithums?
[20:17] <Upu> I'd probably replace it
[20:18] <Upu> yep
[20:18] <Upu> its about 0.9v drop out @ 200mA
[20:18] <Upu> thats rubbish
[20:18] <Upu> 4 should be fine
[20:19] <Upu> at full charge thats 7.2V
[20:19] <Upu> from Energizers
[20:19] <S_Mark> the uno regulator drops 2v
[20:19] <S_Mark> I was using 6xaa which was overkill
[20:20] <S_Mark> but got solid 5v
[20:20] <fsphil> the Pi camera sold out pretty quickly
[20:21] <PaulCDR> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AAA-x-4-Battery-Holder-Black-With-12cm-Leads-/170869088088?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item27c8975f58
[20:21] <PaulCDR> do the job??
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[20:25] <Upu> use AA's
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[20:25] <Laurenceb_> arggg
[20:26] <Laurenceb_> now Hix has got me thinking about 2017 eclipse
[20:26] <fsphil> hehe
[20:26] <PaulCDR> yeah, noticed that, i have just bought a AA one
[20:26] <S_Mark> solar eclipse?
[20:26] <Upu> balloon launch Laurenceb ?
[20:26] <fsphil> join us Laurenceb_. join us :)
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[20:26] <Upu> I think there are going to be many balloons up that day
[20:27] <jdtanner> Evenin' all.
[20:27] <S_Mark> when and where?
[20:27] <fsphil> USA, 2017
[20:27] <fsphil> the track goes from coast to cast
[20:27] <fsphil> coast*
[20:27] <S_Mark> nice
[20:27] <S_Mark> holiday time
[20:27] <fsphil> definitly
[20:27] <Upu> in fact Arduino recommend 7V min to the Uni
[20:27] <Upu> Uno
[20:27] <chrisstubbs> host ukhas over there at the same time and we cann all launch
[20:28] <fsphil> hah
[20:28] Action: chrisstubbs imagines the chaos
[20:28] <fsphil> well we could get all the USians there
[20:28] <fsphil> though it's a big country too
[20:28] <fsphil> even having it somewhere there might still be too far away
[20:28] <chrisstubbs> USHAS
[20:28] <Upu> http://learn.adafruit.com/arduino-tips-tricks-and-techniques/3-3v-conversion
[20:29] <fsphil> 3.3v. it makes sense
[20:29] <Upu> I have no idea why they continue to punt them out @ 5V
[20:30] <fsphil> all the addons probably
[20:30] <fsphil> but they should just do it now, get it over and done with
[20:30] <Upu> PaulCDR the cold can have a negative effect on stuff so if 4 x AA is marginal I'd go with six
[20:31] <fsphil> yea, if nothing else it'll keep the vreg a bit warmer
[20:32] <PaulCDR> Ok, ill do that, anyone wanna buy a 4x AA battery holder, brand new, not used yet? lol
[20:32] <Upu> I have many :)
[20:32] <fsphil> I have no use for this at all, but I'm still tempted: http://cpc.farnell.com/unbranded/c-9895/educational-kit-robot-arm/dp/HK01086
[20:33] Action: Laurenceb_ checks eclipse details
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[20:33] <PaulCDR> random question UPU, i was flicking through some photos on your site, https://plus.google.com/photos/118244444241111963790/albums/5658660548779579377/5658660837451243314?banner=pwa&pid=5658660837451243314&oid=118244444241111963790
[20:34] <PaulCDR> who is the dude on the right?
[20:34] <Upu> Steve Randall
[20:34] <PaulCDR> was he on the dick and dom show by any chance?
[20:34] <fsphil> you get 10 steve points for spotting him
[20:34] <Upu> yeah
[20:34] <Upu> he does a lot of TV work
[20:35] <Upu> James May
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> he is a star!
[20:35] <PaulCDR> lol, it was wrecking my head that lol
[20:35] <fsphil> he was on Coast a while back
[20:35] <Upu> https://plus.google.com/photos/118244444241111963790/albums/5635427279414187281?banner=pwa
[20:35] <chrisstubbs> fsphil buy the robot arm
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Total_solar_eclipse_of_21_August_2017.jpg
[20:36] <fsphil> chrisstubbs: I'm trying to resist
[20:36] <chrisstubbs> well at least get the usb one
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> hmm looks doablwe
[20:36] <chrisstubbs> then you can use you awful network control software for it :P
[20:36] <PaulCDR> thats class, not surprised james may was interested in this
[20:37] <S_Mark> eclipse would be amazing
[20:37] <S_Mark> hmmmmm
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> but im no camera expert :(
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> i could do a stabilized platform...
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> not sure what to put on it
[20:37] <S_Mark> camera with a filter
[20:37] <S_Mark> lol
[20:37] <S_Mark> no idea
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> how wide is the area of totality?
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> aha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_solar_eclipses_in_the_21st_century
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> nice width for Hab
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> OK PEOPLE
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> check this https://oernen2balloon.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=23
[20:41] <fsphil> some people are OK
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[20:41] <eroomde> nice site Lunar_Lander
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> well thanks
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> I have to write much more on it
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> at the moment it is just a carrier for the PDF there
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> Google Drive can't publish PDFs they say
[20:42] <eroomde> \tableofcontents seems to be {\tt } font?
[20:42] <ibanezmatt13> Does anybody know where I can get a Pi Cam before they start selling them again? They all sold out before I could get one and they're saying that they're only gonna be delivered on the 19th August!
[20:43] Action: Laurenceb_ wonders how craptastic a gopro would be for the eclipse
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, yeah, LyX does that automatically
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[20:43] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: ebay
[20:43] <ibanezmatt13> none on ebay unfortunately, nobody is selling :\
[20:44] <fsphil> someone launched a gopro during the australia eclipse last year Laurenceb_
[20:44] <fsphil> it wasn't great for the eclipse but it did show the shadow on the ground nicely
[20:44] <Laurenceb_> im looking at the photos now
[20:44] <Upu> you can use a normal webcam ibanezmatt13
[20:45] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=W_9eYcGIT88
[20:45] <jdtanner> Could I just butt in and ask a quick serial-type question?
[20:45] <S_Mark> Guys, anyone have any pros and cons on temp sensors ds18b20 in normal v parasite mode?
[20:46] <jdtanner> It is more of a "am I thinking along the right lines" actually :)
[20:46] <fsphil> normal seems easier
[20:46] <fsphil> don't ask to ask jdtanner, fire away :)
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> hey jdtanner
[20:46] <PaulCDR> thanks for your help guys good night
[20:46] <fsphil> nice paul
[20:46] <fsphil> nite*
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[20:47] <Laurenceb_> some serious exposure issues there
[20:47] <Laurenceb_> - the aus balloon
[20:47] <jdtanner> I'm using an Arduino Pro Mini (one serial rx/tx) and have been using software serial to communicate with my GPS. However, I'm now moving away from that to use that actual hardware serial of the Arduino. I seem to remember that I had problems last time I tried this with the programming of the arduino clashing with the GPS serial.
[20:47] <jdtanner> (phew)
[20:48] <jdtanner> So...whenI'm programming my Arduino, if I placed a switch on the Rx line of the GPS then I could flip that to "off" whilst programming to bypass the serial clash.
[20:48] <jdtanner> I think...
[20:48] <ibanezmatt13> Wow, just found one on Ebay. Not as cheap as in the shop but I couldn't wait until the end of August :) Upu, I know I could use a normal webcam, but the Pi module from what I've heard is really high quality and doesn't require a lot of power. It comes with it's own software and is really easy to use. Really glad I found it. :)
[20:50] <jdtanner> Actaully...the Tx line of the GPS
[20:50] <LeoBodnar> S_Mark more restrictions in parasitic mode. The sensor cannot signal back when conversion is done, pullup timing is critical, etc. Why do you want to use parasitic?
[20:51] <S_Mark> Ahh maybe that is why I had problems last time when I added them
[20:51] <Upu> just use some 1k resistors
[20:51] <Upu> jdtanner
[20:51] <S_Mark> I have flown in parasitic mode
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[20:52] <S_Mark> but wasnt very reliable
[20:52] <Upu> http://www.billporter.info/how-to-add-multiple-uart-connections/
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, S_Mark did you get the PDF?
[20:52] <S_Mark> LeoBodnar - now designing a new board, I'll stick to normal mode then?
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[20:52] <S_Mark> Lunar_Lander: what pdf was that?
[20:52] <jdtanner> Hey Upu long time no chat :) I've been crazy busy with the new job...but things are getting back to normal now :) Is it as easy as a 1k resistor?
[20:52] <Upu> hey Lunar_Lander
[20:52] <Upu> will jhave a look in a bit
[20:52] <Upu> yup
[20:53] <LeoBodnar> S_Mark, I think one less wire is not worth the headache.
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[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark,
[20:53] <S_Mark> OK excellent
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> check this https://oernen2balloon.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=23
[20:53] <jdtanner> Upu cheers for the link :)
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> and jdtanner the link is for you too
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:54] <jdtanner> It is just blank mate
[20:54] <S_Mark> Thanks Lunar_Lander, will look in a min!
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> jdtanner, blank?
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> no wordpress site?
[20:54] <jdtanner> (I've got that sodding link bookmarked already...should have checked first lol)
[20:55] <jdtanner> There is a wordpress site, but it is just an empty post
[20:55] <jdtanner> Otherwise, it is very nice.
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah there is a PDF link
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> where it says Flight Report 1
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> http://oernen2balloon.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/flight-report-1.pdf
[20:57] <jdtanner> ah, thanks
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[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome
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[20:59] <WILLdude> Heh, recently picked up an AMD 7850 and now I have 3 free games that I have no interest in playing and are worth around £50
[21:00] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude, +1 for new pc, -1 for instagram on the pic haha
[21:00] <chrisstubbs> you are even
[21:01] <LeoBodnar> Looking at U-BLOX UBX protocol, how do you poll navigational solution data? All other messages seem to have corresponding polling request messages but not NAV ones.
[21:01] <chrisstubbs> and Lunar_Lander you went with "stromdrifter" in the end, I like it!
[21:01] <WILLdude> -1?
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[21:02] <chrisstubbs> yeah just remembered seeing your tweet a few days ago
[21:02] <WILLdude> Oh yeah instagram. I think I'm the only boy who doesn't use it for 'material' if you know what I mean.
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[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, yea :)
[21:03] <WILLdude> I know it's offtopic, but does anyone want to purchase them?
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[21:42] <jdtanner> Anyone ever had a bonkers temperature reading from a BMP085?
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[21:43] <jdtanner> I'm currently getting -13421773.00 when intgrated with my code, but the Adafruit library test code gives a more reasonable temperature of 22.32
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> negative temperatures can indicate a population inversion.
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> Are you currently in an energetic plasma?
[21:45] <jdtanner> lol
[21:45] <jdtanner> 13421773 is a prime number...but that doesn't really help
[21:49] <bertrik> I remember seeing a very large number in the BMP085 example, perhaps you're suffering from some kind of integer overflow
[21:49] <jdtanner> Yeah, it must be something in my code that is causing it as the adafruit example works fine
[21:57] <jdtanner> gah
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[22:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gn
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[22:19] <jdtanner> Ok, so this is going on here for future reference for eeejuts like me
[22:19] <jdtanner> the massive BMP number was the "uncalibrated" reading from the BMP085...I forgot to add bmp.begin(); to my code
[22:19] <jdtanner> stoopid
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[22:30] <fsphil> easily done
[22:30] <chrisstubbs> fsphil, are you good with transistors?
[22:31] <fsphil> not really, only done the basics so far
[22:31] <chrisstubbs> aha same, I can blow them up but thats about it ;)
[22:31] <chrisstubbs> looking at NPN's for turning a servo on and off to save power for S_Mark
[22:32] <fsphil> a mosfet might be better
[22:32] <chrisstubbs> Not a bad plan
[22:32] <chrisstubbs> the transistors only seemed to go up to 100ma or so, and i expect the servo will peak a fair bit more
[22:32] <fsphil> there are some that can be driven with a logic level
[22:33] <chrisstubbs> BUZ71 rings a bell, will have to read up :)
[22:33] <fsphil> the 100ma thing might be for when they're not fully saturated, dunno
[22:33] <chrisstubbs> or not "hard on" as my electronics teacher used to say?
[22:33] <fsphil> hah
[22:34] <fsphil> we didn't do any kind of electronics in school
[22:36] <chrisstubbs> same :(
[22:37] <chrisstubbs> well I did but not in proper electronics lessons
[22:37] <chrisstubbs> Did a bit at college after though
[22:37] <chrisstubbs> anyway im off, night all!
[22:37] <fsphil> nite!
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[23:30] Nick change: MichaelC -> MichaelC|Sleep
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[23:42] <durhab> Hello, anyone out there: I'm representing a few people in Durham, NC, USA, looking to do some high-altitude ballooning. We want to send up our first launch with a small payload: a GoPro to record the ascent & descent, a GPS tracker (hopefully that will transmit over APRS) and a thermometer/altimeter combo to get data on the layers of our atmosphere. Would anyone be able to answer questions regarding this setup?
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[23:48] <durhab> Anybody there?
[23:49] <mfa298> durhab: This is the right place to ask, but a lot of people are UK/Europe so will be asleep
[23:50] <durhab> Right. Are you able to answer anything?
[23:50] <mfa298> for some stuff but i was going to head off to bed soon.
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[23:51] <durhab> Okay. Really quick then, do you have any experience with the OpenTracker USB?
[23:52] <mfa298> one of the first rules of this channel is dont ask to ask questions, just ask them, anyone thats around and able to answer them will do
[23:53] <mfa298> personally I don't have much experience with aprs
[23:53] <durhab> Sorry, I don't use IRC. Should I just ask everyone about APRS tracking, leave the tab open and check back later?
[23:54] <mfa298> however a couple of things you will probably need to consider are, you will probably need a HAM license to use one, and you need to ensure the GPS is capbable of working at altitude
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[23:55] <mfa298> it's well worth keeping the window open (and monitor it) chances are some of the USA guys will appear at some point
[23:55] <durhab> Another person in my group has a HAM license, and the GPS we were planning on is here https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=144
[23:57] <mfa298> I'd want to check what "in excess of 25km" means. The record for altitude is around 44km, how high you're likey to get will depends on the payload and balloon
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[00:00] --- Mon Jun 3 2013