highaltitude.log.20130601

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[00:06] <Laurenceb_> crazy max power output
[00:06] <Laurenceb_> well - ~ order of magnitude higher than best lead acid
[00:07] <Laurenceb_> looks like only a little higher than lipo
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[00:08] <Laurenceb_> might make a good drag racing power supply
[00:12] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[00:12] <SpeedEvil> what's it weigh?
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[00:15] <Laurenceb_> 25Kg, 75V, 94F
[00:16] <Laurenceb_> enough to accelerate itself to 330mph
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[00:19] <SpeedEvil> err
[00:19] <SpeedEvil> look at the >1s burst figure
[00:20] <SpeedEvil> a pile of good lithium ion would beat it
[00:20] <SpeedEvil> unless the 60s figure is way closer to 4000 than 50a
[00:27] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[00:27] <SpeedEvil> of course, cycle life is way better
[00:28] <arko> woah
[00:28] <arko> its mars outside
[00:28] <arko> the sky is orange/red
[00:28] <arko> this is neat
[00:28] <arko> expect the sun isn't blue
[00:28] <arko> but whatevs
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[04:15] <heathkid> anyone used an 808 #18 keychain camera on a flight yet?
[04:15] <heathkid> I'd love to see some video
[04:15] <heathkid> I've done testing with a #11 and the uBlox-6 with zero interference
[04:16] <heathkid> no flights yet... but it was recording less than an inch away from the uBlox
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[04:16] <heathkid> I haven't tried the newest #18 yet... just received them today
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[04:49] <heathkid> anyone?
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[07:08] <heathkid> oh well...
[07:09] <heathkid> good night everyone...
[07:09] <Upu> hey heathkid
[07:09] <Upu> morning
[07:09] <Upu> I've had interference
[07:09] <heathkid> hello Upu
[07:09] <Upu> from a key chain camera
[07:10] <heathkid> I tested with a #11 and had zero interference with the uBlox-6
[07:10] <heathkid> haven't tried yet with the #18
[07:11] <heathkid> I did find out don't put the keychain camera on TOP of the uBlox... but an inch or two away and everything was fine.
[07:12] <heathkid> but
[07:12] <heathkid> that was on the ground testing... not in the air
[07:12] <heathkid> what sort of interference did you get?
[07:12] <heathkid> with the GPS?
[07:14] <heathkid> interferring with what?
[07:15] <Upu> yeah locked it out entirely
[07:15] <Upu> done it on one of Daves flights too
[07:17] <heathkid> hmm... which model/version?
[07:17] <heathkid> an 808?
[07:17] <Upu> an AEE one
[07:17] <Upu> AEE MD91 I think
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[07:17] <ibanezmatt13> Monring :)
[07:17] <Upu> http://www.aee.com/old/en/productshow.asp?sendid=52
[07:17] <ibanezmatt13> Morning*
[07:17] <Upu> that one
[07:17] <Upu> morning ibanezmatt13
[07:18] <ibanezmatt13> Last night, Chrisstubbs and I spent a good while setting up my NTX2 and GPS (making it better) :)
[07:18] <Upu> working now ?
[07:18] <ibanezmatt13> Now, I have a CRC16 checksum working with my transmissions. Yes, working now :)
[07:19] <Upu> are you transmitting a UKHAS format string ?
[07:19] <ibanezmatt13> I'm in dl-fldigi HAB mode now and I'm trying to upload my info to the server online. It has come up with a message on the bottom saying "uploaded payload_telemetry successfully." Yes I think I am
[07:19] <Upu> wow
[07:19] <Upu> what are you going to do next week launch a mission to mars ?
[07:19] <Upu> you only got the parts yesterday
[07:20] <ibanezmatt13> I know, that's what prior research does for you :)
[07:20] <Upu> 300 baud ?
[07:20] <ibanezmatt13> I can't see it online though yet. And yes, 300
[07:20] <Upu> [2013-06-01 07:20:22,065] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: Parsing [ascii] '$$MATT,0720.00,53.532838,-2.705253,95.0*0DE0\n'
[07:20] <Upu> nope thats because you need a payload document for it
[07:21] <Upu> http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[07:21] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks
[07:21] <ibanezmatt13> create new payload config doc?
[07:21] <Upu> Click create new
[07:21] <Upu> work through it shout if you get stuck
[07:21] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks :) payload name can be anything right?
[07:22] <Upu> Yeah
[07:22] <ibanezmatt13> ok :)
[07:22] <Upu> the call sign is put in as part of the parser
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[07:23] <Upu> there is sentence wizard but the checksum needs to be correct
[07:23] <ibanezmatt13> parser wizard?
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[07:23] <ibanezmatt13> shall i click, new format wizard?
[07:23] <Upu> yep
[07:24] <Upu> and paste a checksummed string in
[07:24] <Upu> one that went green
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[07:24] <ibanezmatt13> it says check sum not recognised: $$MATT,072408.00,53.53282,-2.705245,96.5*7BE4 that's what I decoded
[07:25] <ibanezmatt13> I downloaded crcmod for python, and used a standard crc16f function
[07:26] <Upu> Should be
[07:26] <Upu> CRC-CCITT
[07:26] <ibanezmatt13> where will I find the function for that?
[07:26] <Upu> on the wiki
[07:27] <Upu> just trying to calculate it manually
[07:27] <ibanezmatt13> will it be the same for python
[07:27] <Upu> no idea
[07:28] <Upu> create a document manually
[07:28] <Upu> I've never used the wizard
[07:28] <Upu> you may want to add a counter to your telemetry
[07:28] <Upu> i.e $$MATT,223,072408.00,53.53282,-2.705245,96.5*7BE4
[07:28] <Upu> like a sentence ID
[07:28] <arko> anyone here had experience with osmocom?
[07:29] <Upu> just increment it every time
[07:29] <ibanezmatt13> ok
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[07:30] <ibanezmatt13> I've now got an incrementation. Can't seem to find this CRC-CCITT
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[07:33] <heathkid> am I here?
[07:34] <x-f> somewhere, yes
[07:35] <heathkid> try this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/160779407885
[07:35] <heathkid> several available on eBay
[07:35] <ibanezmatt13> the package I use states: This package allows the use of any 8, 16, 24, 32, or 64 bit CRC. So I imagine CRC-CCITT won't be included?
[07:35] <GW8RAK> arko only the sdr bit
[07:36] <arko> hmm
[07:36] <arko> im stuck trying to update osmosdr
[07:36] <arko> for gnuradio
[07:36] <heathkid> I'm off to bed....
[07:36] <arko> night!
[07:36] <heathkid> pretty late here... EST
[07:36] <heathkid> night everyone...
[07:36] <GW8RAK> Didn't get that far. Found the sdr tv dongles to be too deaf for most things
[07:36] <heathkid> but please try the 808 keychain camera...
[07:37] <heathkid> like I said.. I got zero interference with GPS and APRS
[07:37] <heathkid> haven't tried it with 70cm RTTY though...
[07:37] <heathkid> night...
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[07:39] <ibanezmatt13> I guess it has something to do with crcmod.mkCrcFun(0x11021, rev=False, initCrc=0xFFFF, xorOut=0x0000) ?
[07:39] <ibanezmatt13> That's the function for the checksun
[07:40] <ibanezmatt13> That function just sets up the CRC-16 function, but I can't seem to find how to change that to make it a CRC-CCITT
[07:44] <ibanezmatt13> https://code.google.com/p/pycrc16/ bingo!
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[07:55] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: found this https://code.google.com/p/pycrc16/
[07:55] <ibanezmatt13> looked perfect as it supports CRC-CCITT. Extracted it on Pi, tried to install it into python, then it failed.
[07:57] <ibanezmatt13> I did tar -zxvf crc16-0.1.1.tar.gz then cd crc16-0.1.1 then sudo python setup.py build then sudo python setup.py install. No luck. I may try PIP, it may work
[07:58] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: don't
[07:58] <Randomskk> install crcmod
[07:58] <Randomskk> "sudo pip install crcmod"
[07:58] <Randomskk> or maybe "sudo easy_install crcmod"
[07:58] <ibanezmatt13> I installed that, does it definitely support crcmod. I already have it
[07:58] <ibanezmatt13> that works fine but it only gives a crc16, not a CRC-CCITT
[07:59] <Randomskk> crc-ccitt is one type of crc16
[07:59] <Randomskk> import crcmod
[07:59] <Randomskk> crcmod supports every type of crc ever
[07:59] <Randomskk> and even has crc-ccitt fuilt in
[07:59] <Randomskk> crc16 = crcmod.predefined.mkCrcFun('crc-ccitt-false')
[07:59] <ibanezmatt13> that means that my problem is that I don't know the function for the CRC-CCITT mod
[07:59] <Randomskk> hex(crc16(data))[2:].upper().zfill(4)
[08:00] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks, it's that top line I needed :)
[08:00] <Randomskk> it's both lines that you need
[08:00] <Randomskk> the top line just creates a function that makes a crc generator
[08:00] <Randomskk> the second line creates a valid ukhas style checksum, as four digits with zero padding
[08:00] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I already have the second one.I was just doing another variant of the crc16 checksum
[08:00] <Randomskk> ok
[08:00] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[08:01] <Randomskk> canonical reference https://github.com/ukhas/habitat/blob/develop/habitat/utils/checksums.py
[08:01] <ibanezmatt13> thanks :)
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[08:22] <ibanezmatt13> I believe I am now using CRC-CCITT, but I still get the same error: "checksum invalid or unrecognised" this is what i decoded $$MATT,082048.00,20,53.532808,-2.705221,96.0*A0CD
[08:22] <m3eav> hydest001? is that going up?
[08:22] <m3eav> it seems hard ot get good latest info?
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[08:24] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: a common mistake is to include the $$ in the CRC calculation
[08:24] <fsphil> the CRC should be calculated from the text between the $$ and *, not including
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13> I don't think I did include it in the checksum
[08:25] <jcoxon> morning all
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[08:25] <fsphil> mornin' jcoxon
[08:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> morning all
[08:25] <fsphil> n' SP9UOB-Tom
[08:26] <m3eav> when is the next UK balloon? does not seem to be one all year according ot tables
[08:26] <jcoxon> m3eav, they often come in batches
[08:26] <jcoxon> as people build payloads and then wait for good weather
[08:26] <jcoxon> i think we are in the phase of waiting for good weather
[08:26] <fsphil> or in my case, wait for good weather and then build a payload
[08:26] <m3eav> I see, so one needs to watch often then, no preset dates all the time
[08:26] <fsphil> if I finish a payload today I might be launching tomorrow -- but the odds are not good atm
[08:27] <m3eav> supposed ot be two days of fine weathewr in uk right now
[08:27] <m3eav> "supposed" to be :-)
[08:28] <m3eav> I was wonderting what that HYDEST001 was showing up on the tracker...someone testing maybe
[08:29] <ibanezmatt13> here it is https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5689683
[08:29] <fsphil> you're not including the callsign
[08:30] <ibanezmatt13> I thought I'm not supposed to?
[08:30] <fsphil> everything between the $$ and *
[08:30] <ibanezmatt13> oh right
[08:30] <ibanezmatt13> I've been doing between the $$MATT bit
[08:31] <ibanezmatt13> thanks, I thought you meant between the whole callsign :\
[08:32] <fsphil> well $$ is not part of the callsign
[08:32] <fsphil> it's just a marker for the start of the string
[08:33] <ibanezmatt13> I understand, I'll try it now :)
[08:34] <SP9UOB-Tom> some young adepts of HABBing launch today from Central Poland
[08:34] <SP9UOB-Tom> some young adepts of HABBing are launching today from Central Poland
[08:35] <jcoxon> cool
[08:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> they want to track with gsm-only, so I gave them my SR0FLY tracker
[08:35] <ibanezmatt13> i got a green check sum!
[08:35] <fsphil> congrats :)
[08:36] <fsphil> you should be able to make the payload doc now
[08:36] <ibanezmatt13> i don't think my shift is set right though. How wide does it have to be?
[08:36] <fsphil> wide as you want
[08:36] <ibanezmatt13> does it not mak a difference
[08:36] <fsphil> as long as it is equal or greater than the baud rate
[08:36] <ibanezmatt13> oh right, didn't know that
[08:36] <fsphil> and not so wide that they're near either side of the waterfall
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[08:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> and again i nieed quick flight doc approval :-)
[08:37] <fsphil> I normally use 350hz for 300 baud
[08:37] <ibanezmatt13> my two signal lines are very broken. That might be why?
[08:37] <fsphil> at 300 baud they won't be solid lines
[08:37] <ibanezmatt13> I'll screenshot it for you
[08:39] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2eky5pbpca087by/Untitled.jpg
[08:40] <fsphil> yea bit of a wobble there
[08:40] <fsphil> that could be your power supply
[08:40] <ibanezmatt13> for which component?
[08:41] <fsphil> either radio maybe
[08:43] <anerDev> hi guys
[08:44] <anerDev> guys, but for the transmission data, wha't the output setting ?
[08:44] <anerDev> output format ?
[08:45] <fsphil> you mean the $$PAYLOAD,123,... strings?
[08:45] <anerDev> yeah
[08:46] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[08:46] <fsphil> described there
[08:46] <anerDev> $$CALLSIGN is the name of payload ?
[08:46] <anerDev> yes LOL
[08:46] <fsphil> yea you'd put whatever name you want there
[08:47] <anerDev> optional speed,optional bearing,optional internal temperature,
[08:47] <anerDev> I don't use in my arduino sketch
[08:47] <fsphil> don't include them then, they're optional
[08:47] <anerDev> I use only lat lon alt temp humidity pressure
[08:47] <anerDev> ah ok ok
[08:47] <fsphil> perfect
[08:48] <fsphil> at a minimum it needs a callsign, lat, lon, alt, checksum
[08:48] <anerDev> ook
[08:48] <fsphil> you can add anything you want onto that
[08:48] <anerDev> now I rewrite my scketch
[08:48] <fsphil> well, also a counter
[08:48] <anerDev> ook
[08:49] <anerDev> my latitude/long output is xxxx.xxxx
[08:49] <anerDev> this is nmea ?
[08:50] <anerDev> like this: 3807.960807;1443.544879;
[08:50] <fsphil> yea
[08:50] <anerDev> perfect !
[08:50] <fsphil> such an ackward format that
[08:50] <anerDev> I'm re-writing the sketch
[08:50] <anerDev> if you would like, you can wathc there
[08:51] <anerDev> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3y9jvwa6hkbhegj/VZplDdb_e-/demo/betanoserial
[08:52] <fsphil> jcoxon: the high altitude winds seem to have gone west again
[08:52] <jcoxon> yes
[08:52] <jcoxon> indeed
[08:52] <jcoxon> though not particularly fast sadly
[08:53] <jcoxon> though i don't think they ever get that fast
[08:53] <fsphil> no, it would take longer than a latex balloon has lasted so far
[08:53] <fsphil> we might need a large foil balloon
[08:55] <jcoxon> indeed
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> I've succesfully created a payload config file. Ready to start testing...
[08:57] <anerDev> fsphil counter add, checksum add
[08:57] <anerDev> now i put the callsing
[08:58] <anerDev> fsphil but, can i use this format of output $$ASSM,%d | %s - %s - %s | %d | %d | %d ?
[08:58] <anerDev> with | instead of , ?
[08:58] <fsphil> nope
[08:59] <fsphil> brb, breakfast
[08:59] <anerDev> what ?
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[09:05] <Hix> anerdev you need , not |
[09:05] <anerDev> ook
[09:06] <Hix> http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[09:09] <anerDev> wha't bearing ?
[09:10] <daveake> Direction
[09:10] <daveake> not needed- optional
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[09:13] <anerDev> direction in what sense ?
[09:13] <anerDev> to north, to west & ?
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[09:16] <daveake> angle
[09:17] <anerDev> ook
[09:17] <anerDev> thank u
[09:18] <ibanezmatt13> i've got the crc-ccitt checksum working and created a payload config file
[09:18] <Hix> has anyone flown an IMU?
[09:18] <ibanezmatt13> Now what do I need to do to get tracking it on spacenear.us/tracker?
[09:19] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/
[09:19] <daveake> See http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/
[09:19] <fsphil> there's an error coming up
[09:19] <ibanezmatt13> that's very confusing
[09:21] <fsphil> not too bad
[09:21] <fsphil> the bit your looking for is {"error":"forbidden","reason":"Validation errors: 91840.0 is not of type u'string'"}
[09:22] <ibanezmatt13> 91840.0? what's that?
[09:23] <ibanezmatt13> ah, could that be something in the config file?
[09:24] <fsphil> seems to be time -- you're transmitting time in an odd format
[09:24] <fsphil> normally it's hh:mm:ss
[09:25] <ibanezmatt13> from the gps it comes through as hhmm.ss
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[09:25] <ibanezmatt13> sorry no it doesnt
[09:25] <ibanezmatt13> hh.mm.ss.00
[09:26] <ibanezmatt13> strangely
[09:26] <ibanezmatt13> i'll change it
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[09:30] <SP9UOB-Tom> 1.5V payload cutdown :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdY7LFo6fCI
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[09:32] <LazyLeopard> How well does it work at -40C ?
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[09:34] <SP9UOB-Tom> LazyLeopard: should work OK, it will be assisted with 1F supercap, which makes the spiral bright orange
[09:34] <LazyLeopard> ;)
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[09:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> anyway this is intended to take down payload from the tree, and not from tropopause
[09:36] <LazyLeopard> Ah. ;)
[09:36] <ibanezmatt13> I've redone my payload config but still no luck. I'm getting successful checksum data. Do I have to do something with that file?
[09:37] <fsphil> have you checked logtail again?
[09:37] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I redid the whole file as well
[09:38] <ibanezmatt13> still errors
[09:38] <ibanezmatt13> cant work out what's wrong
[09:38] <fsphil> what's the error?
[09:39] <ibanezmatt13> one of them is that it could not save the file
[09:39] <ibanezmatt13> WARNING habitat.parser_daemon MainThread: Could not save doc dca325a136b1314b1d82d4595561344642843a78573a157cc9ad1fcbe8c0b15e, unauthorized: {"error":"forbidden","reason":"Validation errors: u'-2.70529' is not of type u'number', u'53.532803' is not of type u'number'"}
[09:39] <ibanezmatt13> something to do with latitude
[09:39] <fsphil> not a type of number. ook
[09:40] <ibanezmatt13> i set it to be a string
[09:40] <fsphil> well that's the problem
[09:40] <ibanezmatt13> let me just get through a new file, and I'll let you know when I get to thee latitude bit
[09:42] <fsphil> you don't need the .00 in the time either
[09:42] <ibanezmatt13> ok, it wants me to setup this field: 094159.00
[09:42] <ibanezmatt13> that's time
[09:42] <ibanezmatt13> I know it's in a funny format
[09:43] <ibanezmatt13> options are float, string, constant, coordinate
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[09:43] <fsphil> it would be quite simple to change that to hh:mm:ss
[09:43] <ibanezmatt13> would it?
[09:43] Nick change: ms7821_ -> ms7821
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[09:43] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a go
[09:44] <fsphil> yea, just a bit of string manipulation. python is quite good at that
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[09:45] <ibanezmatt13> So I need to do something like newtime=list(time) hours = newtime[0] + newtime[1] minutes=newtime[2] + newtime[3] seconds = newtime[4] + newtime[5] ?
[09:45] <ibanezmatt13> would that work
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[09:46] <fsphil> you can do it even easier than that
[09:46] <ibanezmatt13> that one where you do something like newtime[2:0] or something like that
[09:47] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not sure exactly how to do that
[09:47] <fsphil> the format is basically string[start:length]
[09:47] <fsphil> in your case length would be 2 for all of them
[09:47] <fsphil> actually it might be 3
[09:47] <ibanezmatt13> 3?
[09:48] <ibanezmatt13> 094122.00
[09:48] <fsphil> yea I remember getting an unexpected result last time I played with this
[09:49] <ibanezmatt13> hours=time[start:3] what is start?
[09:49] <fsphil> try it and find out :)
[09:49] <ibanezmatt13> I shall experiment :)
[09:49] <fsphil> nice way of trying things is to run python on the command line
[09:49] <fsphil> just type in python, hit enter
[09:50] <fsphil> then you can enter python commands and see the output
[09:50] <fsphil> >>> print "narf"[1:3]
[09:50] <fsphil> ar
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[09:50] <fsphil> actually you don't even need the print
[09:51] <ibanezmatt13> ah i see what's happening
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[09:53] <fsphil> ah, it's not start:length
[09:53] <fsphil> it's start:end
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[09:53] <ibanezmatt13> that would make sense :)
[09:54] <fsphil> I was thinking of php's substr() command
[09:54] <ibanezmatt13> when I turn it into a string, it gets rid of the 0 on the front...
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[09:55] <Hix> hi daveake - quick OT questoin; do you know of a source of reasonably priced linear pots for automotive use? Bosch motorsport stuff is extremely expensive
[09:55] <fsphil> try "%06i" % time
[09:56] <ibanezmatt13> where shall i put that?
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[09:56] <fsphil> that creates a string, so you could assign it to a vairable
[09:56] <fsphil> newtime = whatever
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[09:56] <fsphil> then do your splitty thing on that
[09:57] <ibanezmatt13> so I need to do string = "%0gi" % time ?
[09:57] <fsphil> something like that
[09:57] <fsphil> only 6 not g
[09:57] <fsphil> this is assuming time is a number
[09:57] <ibanezmatt13> sorry, yes
[09:58] <ibanezmatt13> I see what that's done, thanks :)
[09:58] <fsphil> there's probably a magical python way of doing this, but this should work ;)
[10:00] <fsphil> the formatting that does is documented at http://docs.python.org/release/2.5.2/lib/typesseq-strings.html
[10:00] <Leo_> Hix, what is your expected price for linear transducers?
[10:00] <ibanezmatt13> it worked, thanks fsphil :)
[10:00] <Leo_> Hix, and length!
[10:01] <Hix> Leo_: a lot less than the €400 Bosch are asking per unit 0-~100mm
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[10:03] <Leo_> Hix, what ends do you need? I have specced a few £150 ones of RS last week for a project. How many do you need? I have a few somewhere. Do you need high IP rating?
[10:03] <Leo_> *sp off
[10:04] <Hix> mountings, not bothered as can adapt to suit, IP65 i suppose would be sufficient, though not critical either
[10:04] <Hix> tried RS this morn bu ttheir site is down for maintenance
[10:05] <Leo_> Hix, this is the link I have from this project BOM http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/?sra=oss&r=t&searchTerm=pz34a&x=0&y=0
[10:05] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: I get an error on the line string = "%06i" % time it says, %d format: a number is required
[10:06] <Hix> cheers Leo_ I'll have a look when they are back up
[10:06] <Hix> what was your project if you don't mind my asking?
[10:07] <Leo_> Pedals in an F1 car sim
[10:07] <Leo_> What's yours? :)
[10:07] <Hix> ah ok. I'm looking at a suspension logging system. Are you working for a team or a sim mfr?
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[10:11] <Leo_> We are a small independent electronics company at Silverstone, doing custom projects mostly for sim but sometimes for motorsport teams as well.
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[10:13] <martijn__> hi all
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[10:16] <S_Mark> Any small motors that work in near space?
[10:17] <SpeedEvil> lots
[10:17] <SpeedEvil> most, even
[10:17] <jcoxon> that said i'm not sure a list exists of tested motors
[10:17] <Hix> RC servos would robably be good 5v and pwm driven
[10:17] <jcoxon> people worry about grease in servos
[10:18] <SpeedEvil> for higher voltage DC motors, arcing may be a real concern
[10:18] <jcoxon> due to the temps
[10:18] <SpeedEvil> and fan cooling is a lot less efficient
[10:18] <Babs> S_Mark http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8631201039/in/set-72157632733154985
[10:19] <S_Mark> Ah cool thanks everyone! What's that then Babs?
[10:19] <cuddykid> Upu: received the board - absolutely fantastic job you've done again!! Thanks :D
[10:19] <S_Mark> That was used in your gyro
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[10:20] <ibanezmatt13> I'M ON! http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[10:20] <qyx_> Babs: hm, these are from ebay? aren*t they slow for gyro?
[10:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> some photos from SEBA-3 payload: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/116415765810711336360/albums/5884208644847012753
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[10:21] <SpeedEvil> S_Mark: whayt're you wanting the motor for?
[10:21] <Hix> morning Babs got the CR2 to open, needed update to camera RAW
[10:21] <Hix> also Babs did you see this? http://www.iso1200.com/2013/04/are-you-ready-for-diy-movi-2-axis.html
[10:21] <S_Mark> Just thinking of a few ideas really, maybe a rotating picture
[10:21] <Babs> qyx_ S_Mark - pololu robot wheels http://www.pololu.com/catalog/category/51
[10:22] <S_Mark> Not really driving anything. You get yours from here Babs?
[10:22] <Babs> qyx_ they are pretty rapid. certainly quick enough to feel a gyro effect in your hand
[10:22] <Babs> and did a good job on BABSHAB
[10:22] <qyx_> yep, they are available on ebay for like $6
[10:23] <qyx_> i have some, but they are only 60rpm
[10:23] <qyx_> i think there are different gearings so yours may be faster
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[10:24] <Babs> Hix - that is pretty cool
[10:24] <Babs> will be interesting to see how the RAW manipulation comes out - I've started to get some good results but it is a bit trial and error
[10:25] <Babs> qyx - yes, there are some higher rpm ones but they have less torque
[10:25] <Babs> you basically need to find a balance between rpm, torque and battery drain
[10:25] Action: SpeedEvil wishes maglev was easier.
[10:26] <Babs> going to have a look at that one hix - its only for gopro weight cams but should be able to adapt the design i would imagine
[10:26] Action: SpeedEvil just wants to make a bearing that can take a ton at 60000rpm
[10:26] <SpeedEvil> (not for hab use)
[10:27] <Babs> Speedevil - Birmingham Airport feels the same way http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asVQzbOftqE
[10:28] <SpeedEvil> 60000rpm is a decent service rate for a train.
[10:28] <Hix> babs - whack some in the ftp folder and I'll have a play
[10:28] <Babs> S_Mark - got mine from either pololu in the US, or else there is a shop in Scotland that does them too (I forget which one but a bit of googling should find it)
[10:28] <SpeedEvil> might complicate the platform though
[10:28] <Hix> s_Mark proto-pic and sk pang in the UK do pololu stuff
[10:28] <S_Mark> ok great thanks
[10:28] <Babs> proto pic was the one i used
[10:29] <Hix> yup the're a good place
[10:29] <Hix> babs, started thinking about a larger version yesterday :D http://i.imgur.com/eApi1Dz.png
[10:29] <Babs> Hix - I'm getting an error when i click on the link 404 not found - have to shoot now to see a house but if you email me another link i cacn do it
[10:30] <Babs> laters all
[10:30] <Hix> bye
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[10:31] <Leo_> How about this camera gimbal support? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDj9aPjWAgo
[10:32] <SpeedEvil> Leo_: but what about gyre support. Especially in the wabe.
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[10:33] <SpeedEvil> ( http://www.jabberwocky.com/carroll/jabber/jabberwocky.html )
[10:35] <Leo_> lol
[10:38] <SP9UOB-Tom> Cekcyn is UP, no RTTY :-( http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FSP2GZY-11&timerange=3600&tail=7200
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[10:39] <Leo_> Do you guys worry when sending a few kilogram payloads up there? Does it not become a bit dangerous without a backup parachute? Especially with protruding parts like gyros.
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[10:40] <ibanezmatt13> If I want to take my payload off the tracker when I'm done testing, how should I do that?
[10:41] <S_Mark> I think you just need to ask here and someone will do it for you
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[10:41] <cuddykid> you can't, it will remain there forever and ever :)
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[10:41] <ibanezmatt13> oh dear :) nevermind, I just need to modify a few things, thanks :)
[10:42] <SpeedEvil> Leo_: I prefer to design stuff so I wouldn't mind if it fell on my head,
[10:43] <SpeedEvil> having said that, I've not launched a payload that counted FET
[10:43] <SpeedEvil> yet
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[10:47] <ibanezmatt13> could somebody with the sufficient authority please remove the "MATT" payload from the tracker. I've got a new one named "MATT_test" slightly more appropriate :)
[10:47] <Hix> I think that any system like that wuld need to be enclosed Leo_
[10:48] <daveake> done
[10:49] <ibanezmatt13> thanks daveake
[10:51] <Leo_> I haven't been long enough here to know what current collective attitude to this is. Obviously the probability of accident is tiny. But with modern media one accident will probably put this hobby to an end.
[10:52] <Leo_> I can see there was 3rd party insurance placeholder page put on the wiki recently.
[10:52] <cuddykid> daveake: I've ordered a sack trolley thing to transport the cylinder - otherwise I don't think I'll ever be able to move it around more than a few meters!
[10:54] <SpeedEvil> insurance is problematic.
[10:55] <SpeedEvil> I note however that a freedom of information request revealed that the met office, who launch 6 a day (?) have had three claims against them totalling 1k
[10:56] <daveake> cuddykid Yeah otherwise it's a 2-man job
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[10:57] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: pump that helium! Work it!
[10:57] <cuddykid> hydrogen
[10:57] <cuddykid> haha
[10:57] <cuddykid> he cylinder is fine
[10:57] <cuddykid> but h2 at some 70 odd kg is a little too heavy for me unfortunately :P
[10:57] Action: SpeedEvil is still consideroing a natural gas launch.
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[10:57] <SpeedEvil> how much was the h?
[10:57] <cuddykid> around 25/30 I think
[10:58] <SpeedEvil> for?
[10:58] <cuddykid> 3.6m3
[10:58] <cuddykid> T cylinder
[10:58] <cuddykid> the h2 is around 9m3
[10:58] <cuddykid> no, he
[10:58] <daveake> Oh AP?
[10:58] <SpeedEvil> £6 of natural gas.
[10:58] <cuddykid> sorry - BOC Helium -> T; BOC H2 -> big one
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> equivalent
[10:59] <mfa298> I suspect the met office payloads are fairly lightweight so their ability to cause damage is reduced. Some of the payloads sent up are much larger - although generally people look for a prediction that will cause less damage.
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> mfa298: perhaps. uea
[10:59] <daveake> BOC H2 is 7.2 m^3 and £44 + VAT + del
[10:59] <cuddykid> oh, I thought it was near 9m3 daveake ?
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> daveake: delivery?
[11:00] <daveake> The AP one might be
[11:00] <daveake> yeah you pay for delivery or indeed collection
[11:00] <SpeedEvil> daveake: I thought you had to collect
[11:00] <SpeedEvil> oh
[11:00] <SpeedEvil> makes sense
[11:00] <daveake> Well I always collect
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[11:00] <daveake> If you collect 2 it's the same fee
[11:00] <cuddykid> do you know how much delivery is daveake? If it's not much I'll go with that I think
[11:01] <daveake> Can't remember but it's on the BOC site
[11:01] <Leo_> I'll stick with micro payloads for now.
[11:02] <SpeedEvil> can anyone ballpark say a 1300g balloons inflation pressure?
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> I assume its going to be more than 20mb - 20cm of water head
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[11:16] Jess-- (51a81682@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.168.22.130) joined #highaltitude.
[11:17] <Jess--> has anyone managed to get the gps part of fl-digi working?
[11:17] <Jess--> I just get the createfile() failed error
[11:17] <mfa298> Jess--: I think a few people have issues with it on windows
[11:18] <mfa298> although unless your mobile there's little point to have it set to use gps.
[11:19] <Jess--> planning on using it on a chase tomorrow
[11:20] <mfa298> I think most people just leave the settings on there as static, if you want to show your mobile position on the map there are a few smartphone apps that do that.
[11:24] <Jess--> is there any chase car software for windows?
[11:24] <mfa298> the only ones I'm aware of are iPhone or android.
[11:25] <Jess--> oh well... time to upgrade the iphone
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[11:26] <fsphil> the mobile tracker page can upload positions iirc
[11:26] <mfa298> I've generally used dl-fldigi to get the data and then the android app to upload my position when out on a chase.
[11:26] <fsphil> http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/
[11:26] <mfa298> fsphil: good call - I'd forgotten that
[11:27] <jdtanner> Morning all. Anyone flying today?
[11:27] <fsphil> I was hoping to fly tomorrow but it's increasingly unlikely
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[11:31] <fsphil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/volaremission/8910318102/
[11:32] <mfa298> Jess--: does that mean you're planning to launch tomorrow ? If so it might be worth announcing on the list so people are around to help track.
[11:33] <fsphil> yes do please announce launches, if someone else was launching at the same time there might have been a frequency clash :)
[11:33] <Jess--> launch planned from horncastle with 2 trackers, trying to get everything tied together today with docs etc
[11:34] <Jess--> frequencies planned 434.202 / 434.252
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[11:57] <griffonbot> @adamcudworth: 3rd revision of the HABE flight computer expertly soldered up by @AnthonyStirk #ukhas http://t.co/eCW9ayz3nt [http://twitter.com/adamcudworth/status/340799268732432384]
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[12:45] <S_Mark> OK, if I want to learn eagle PCB creation, where is the best place to start
[12:45] <S_Mark> ?
[12:47] <Randomskk> sparkfun have good tutorials
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[12:50] <S_Mark> Ok thanks
[12:51] <S_Mark> Before eagle though, you need the circuit drawn?
[12:51] <S_Mark> It's just a design program
[12:51] <S_Mark> That right?
[12:53] <Randomskk> it's a schematic capture program in addition to a pcb layout program
[12:53] <Randomskk> so you typically draw the circuit in eagle first
[12:53] <Randomskk> that way, it already knows what components and connections to use on the PCB
[12:55] <S_Mark> Ok
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[13:08] <Hix> S_Mark: http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=16338 should get you off to a start
[13:09] <Leo_> Why most people use 434.075MHz freq? Is it because Radiometrix modules have fixed TX frequency?
[13:10] <Hix> mostly leo though 434.650 is normally more quiet
[13:10] <Hix> S_Mark: https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/108 is good too
[13:11] <S_Mark> Thanks Hix I will have a look now
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[13:11] <Leo_> It would be interesting to see 434MHz band survey to find a quiet area.
[13:15] <Hix> .075 is not normally :/
[13:15] <mfa298> it can vary a lot between different areas.
[13:16] <mfa298> 434.650 is an amateur repeater frequency (input I think) so can be noisy if your near such a repeater
[13:16] <Hix> Gimbal design has started http://i.imgur.com/ZPRIVpU.png
[13:18] <chrisstubbs> nice modelling hix
[13:18] <Leo_> looks good so far!
[13:18] <Hix> thank you, I'm wearing gold lame with a pink arran sweater ;p
[13:19] <Hix> oh you meant the CAD
[13:19] <chrisstubbs> haha how did i see that one coming
[13:19] <Leo_> lol
[13:19] <chrisstubbs> what motor are you using?
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[13:19] <Hix> at the moment a 3026 - though i think it's way over the top, i just had one in the CAD bin
[13:20] <chrisstubbs> wow expensive! :P
[13:21] <Hix> BRC hobbies are a really good supplier for brushless motors
[13:21] <Leo_> What's the idea behind the gimbal control? Does motor work in position hold/servo mode or totrque?
[13:21] <Hix> not really think they are ~25
[13:21] <SpeedEvil> either works Leo_
[13:21] <SpeedEvil> both have advantages
[13:21] <chrisstubbs> oh from googling they two i found were $100
[13:22] <Hix> I have no idea about the control as yet, apart from it will be a bitch to program
[13:22] <Hix> look at BRC chrisstubbs
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[13:22] <nigelvh> ping Upu
[13:22] <Leo_> These motors are sensorless, aren't they?
[13:22] <chrisstubbs> the british rabbit council
[13:23] <nigelvh> Or ping anyone who can run the APRS -> spacenear.us script.
[13:24] <Hix> chrisstubbs: http://goo.gl/UsyAq would probably be ott too
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[13:24] <Hix> yes Leo_
[13:25] <Hix> though the plan is for the imu to be mounted under the camera
[13:26] <Leo_> I took apart Boeing 737 directional gyro last week. Lovely toy.
[13:28] <Laurenceb_> wow
[13:28] <Laurenceb_> some interesting developments here
[13:28] <Laurenceb_> rather than "launch $FOO on a hab"
[13:28] <Laurenceb_> :P
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[13:28] <Laurenceb_> you guys seen all the gimbals on RC Groups
[13:29] <Hix> yeah
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[13:29] <Hix> mostly gopro based
[13:29] <Leo_> So is this for stabilisation or control?
[13:29] <Hix> stab
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[13:30] <Hix> and an element of control
[13:30] <ibanezmatt13> Aftrernoon all :)n
[13:30] <Hix> idea forming about stitching pics together at +/-pitch and yaw
[13:30] <Hix> to get one mahoosive image of "space"
[13:30] <Leo_> How about taking apart optical image stabilisation lens and making it control massive voice coil that move the whole camera rather than optical correction plate only?
[13:31] <Hix> just to crank people i added that last word :p
[13:31] <Randomskk> the photo is _of_ space, just not _from_ space :P
[13:31] <Laurenceb_> lol
[13:31] <Leo_> Has anybody launched stereoscopic imaging system yet?
[13:32] <Randomskk> don't think so. not sure you'd get much out of it. almost planar affine
[13:32] <Hix> not sure it'd have any real percievable benefit
[13:32] <ibanezmatt13> I'm trying to implement some error correction into my code. Reason is: The NTX2 will send a few complete datastrings, however, when one such as 'altitude' is not provided by the GPS, the whole thing fails with "altitude not in range" or whatever.
[13:33] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: that sounds more like a bug in how you're reading the gps
[13:33] <Leo_> Two ballons with two cameras = massive stereo base
[13:33] <Hix> heh
[13:33] <Randomskk> Leo_: keeping them pointing even vaguely in the same direction would be very difficult
[13:33] <Randomskk> and the separation would likely change a lot over time
[13:33] <Randomskk> you might get a couple of cool images though
[13:34] <Laurenceb_> would there even be anything interesting to see?
[13:34] <Randomskk> no
[13:34] <Randomskk> the geometry is so simple
[13:34] <Leo_> Clouds! Lots of
[13:34] <Randomskk> just reconstruct the 3d
[13:34] <Randomskk> map the image you have onto a spherical earth approximated by the visible horizon
[13:34] <Randomskk> job done
[13:34] <Randomskk> no need for stereo cameras if you already know the scene geometry
[13:34] <ibanezmatt13> I'm opening the serial, readine the line, then closing it. Then I split it into individual fields with time=data[1] latitude=data[2] etc... I had it working perfectly, but every now and again it doesn't return one of them and the program stops :\
[13:35] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: sounds like a bug :P
[13:35] <ibanezmatt13> I'll keep checking
[13:35] <nigelvh> Randomskk, are you able to run the APRS->space near.us script?
[13:35] <Randomskk> nope, sorry
[13:35] <Randomskk> well
[13:35] <Randomskk> I don't know how
[13:36] <nigelvh> Damn
[13:36] <nigelvh> Thanks anyway
[13:36] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: sounds a bit like you might also want to check you're getting valid data from the gps. If it doesn't have a lock it won't give useful data
[13:36] <Randomskk> nigelvh: think i've just figured out how though, maybe
[13:36] <Leo_> about 15 years ago I have been trying to make a panorama scanning camera based on linear CCD rotating at a high speed. Maybe it can be resurrected for the ballon panoramic head?
[13:37] <ibanezmatt13> that's what I'm trying to put in now, but I'm just thinking how to do it. Something like if I don't have a lock, pass, else: do everything
[13:37] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: I'm pretty sure I said this before. Don't trust any data your given by users/devices. Check it's valid first!
[13:37] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I'm onto it now
[13:37] <Randomskk> nigelvh: callsign?
[13:37] <nigelvh> I need to link up K7NVH-11, K7NVH-12 and K7NVH-13. Three balloons this morning.
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[13:39] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: get in the habit of *always* checking functions don't return an error and that data you're passed from something external (user/gps/sensors) is sensible. That way you'll have fewer problems like this (and if you do you'll know what the problem is)
[13:40] <ibanezmatt13> I understand :) So, if I don't get a lock, what shall I do: skip everything and re-loop until I get a lock?
[13:41] <Jess--> Who do I need to speak to about getting a flight doc approved?
[13:42] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: that's upto you, some people will resend the old position, some people might send what the gps has given them. with both of those you may want to indicate if you have a lock or not, or how many sats you can see
[13:43] <ibanezmatt13> good idea, I'll work on that now :)
[13:43] <Hix> Jess--: #habhub
[13:44] <Jess--> cheers hix
[13:44] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: the thing to consider it what would be most useful for your payload to do if it can't get a lock. The answer to that could be different to what someone elses payload should do.
[13:45] <ibanezmatt13> If it doesn't get a lock, I'd probably send the old information. That way I can see that the program is still working, it's just not got a lock, as opposed to knowing nothing at all
[13:48] <Leo_> Another UHF question - do you transmit continuous RTTY downlink or bursts of data from time to time?
[13:48] <mfa298> Leo_: generally people go for fairly continuous data, at 50bd it can take a short while to send a string (depending on how long the string is)
[13:49] <Laurenceb_> paladin.randomskk.net
[13:49] <mfa298> sometimes there's a short gap for polling debies
[13:49] <Laurenceb_> /facepalm
[13:49] <mfa298> devices
[13:49] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: and what
[13:49] <Randomskk> my system naming scheme is d&d character classes
[13:49] <Laurenceb_> seriously...
[13:49] <Randomskk> seriously, so what?
[13:50] <Randomskk> gotta have a naming scheme
[13:50] <mfa298> I've seen much worse naming schemes
[13:50] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: It ran fine for a bit, then it said made an error on this line if data[6] != 1 and counter > 0: "list index not in range" what does that mean?
[13:50] <Leo_> This would be illegal on 434MHz band. EU regulations allow maximum TX duty ratio of only 10% within any hour! Oops
[13:51] <Randomskk> Leo_: look more carefully
[13:52] <mfa298> Leo_: assuming your in the UK look for IR2030. There are bits of spectrum that allow continuous data on 434 and from airborne devices
[13:52] <Randomskk> (though I think ir2030 is no longer applicable)
[13:53] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: look at rest of your program (probably at what data is). I can't debug a single line like that and you know python better than I do.
[13:53] <Randomskk> oh, no, this copy of ir2030 I have has been aligned to ec 2006/771/ec
[13:56] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: I think I understand now. Because I'm splitting the NMEA sentence into it's individual fields by commas, that means that for instance, time=data[1] will only apply if it's the first element of the string. So, if it doesn't get time, then time won't equal data[1]. Same for lock, which is where it fails
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[13:56] <ibanezmatt13> So I need to find a way of seeing if it has returned anything without refering to individual elements of the NMEA sentence
[13:57] <Leo_> Thanks for the clarification, http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/spectrum/spectrum-policy-area/spectrum-management/research-guidelines-tech-info/interface-requirements/IR_2030.pdf page 17 says: Non-specific short-range devices / Equipment may be used airborne / 434.04- 434.79 MHz / 10 mW e.r.p.
[13:57] <Leo_> This is December 2011
[13:58] <ibanezmatt13> Perhaps I could split the sentence up and simply scan for a '0'. The only '0' that should ever be in the sentence is the '0' to indicate no lock
[13:58] <Leo_> No reference to duty ratio restrictions. This is UK only, right?
[13:58] <eroomde> yes
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[13:58] <eroomde> iirc the duty cycle restrictions were if your BW was >25khz
[13:58] <eroomde> tho i may be misremembering
[13:58] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, http://aprs.gids.nl/nmea/#gga check out the "Fix Quality:" field
[13:59] <chrisstubbs> you can use an if statement to check if it has a lock
[13:59] <ibanezmatt13> Hi chrisstubbs. I tried that, but sometimes the GPS doesn't return all the fields
[13:59] <ibanezmatt13> in which case, the if statement wouldn't work. Unless I do it in some other way...
[13:59] <Leo_> eroomde, it says "Channel Spacing d 25 kHz". I assume this makes BW d 25 kHz :)
[14:01] <chrisstubbs> odd, can you get a few sample strings from the gps and try and figure out why it is not returning all the fields
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[14:01] <ibanezmatt13_> sorry chrisstubbs, internet went off :\
[14:03] <chrisstubbs> odd, can you get a few sample strings from the gps and try and figure out why it is not returning all the fields
[14:03] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: liberal use of the print statement is your friend - especially when debugging.
[14:03] <ibanezmatt13_> I'll try that just to be sure
[14:03] <mfa298> if you're not sure what's happening print out the data string you get from the gps, and the various elements of data you think they should be.
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[14:05] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: you might find a real irc client better than using the web client. (x-chat is probably a decent choice for windows)
[14:05] <ibanezmatt13_> OK, the GPS is currently returning all fields
[14:06] <ibanezmatt13_> oh right, I'll look for that later, thanks :)
[14:06] <ibanezmatt13_> so the GPS looks to be working fine
[14:06] <Hix> ibanezmatt13_: http://www.silverex.org/download/xchat-2.8.6-2.exe
[14:07] <ibanezmatt13_> Thanks
[14:07] <ibanezmatt13_> The only thing I've done is taken out the last three lines which open serial for radio, write datastring, then close
[14:09] <ibanezmatt13_> I may have found the problem!
[14:09] <cuddykid> interesting - just ran some continuity checks on cutdowns - successfully detected the duff ones :)
[14:09] <ibanezmatt13_> In fact, nevermind :(
[14:10] <cuddykid> however - what was interesting to note that I was getting very small voltage ~0.3v or so on the duff ones (in comparison to ~2.8v on non-duff) - any one know why I would get a small read out rather than none (as if nothing was connected up)?
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[14:13] <ibanezmatt13_> chrisstubbs and mfa298: https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5690523
[14:13] <ibanezmatt13_> it prints everything out fine without the last 3 lines
[14:14] <ibanezmatt13_> with the three lines, it works for a few loops, then it comes up with an error
[14:14] <ibanezmatt13_> one of them is in the forloop: substring not available. Other times it's list index not in range...
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[14:15] <ibanezmatt13_> the penultimate line appears to be the culprit
[14:15] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: I'd add lots of print statements to that.
[14:16] <ibanezmatt13_> Yah so would I. I'd taken them out to make it easier to read so that you could identify what was going on
[14:16] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13_, you may need to wait untill all the data has been sent over the serial port before closing it
[14:16] <mfa298> for instance I'd print out NMEA_Sentence as soon as it's readt from the GPS
[14:16] <ibanezmatt13_> chrisstubbs: I thought it did that automatically
[14:16] <ibanezmatt13_> mfa298: I'll do that now
[14:17] <mfa298> I'd bet that because you're changing between serial devices the line you get from the GPS sometimes has garbage in it.
[14:17] <mfa298> as I said earlier *Don't* trust any data that comes from an external device to be correct
[14:17] <ibanezmatt13_> I was thinking of doing a serial.flush()
[14:17] <chrisstubbs> rtty.flush() #wait for image to send
[14:18] <chrisstubbs> smap, thats just what you need
[14:18] <mfa298> your code is assuming that what you've read from the gps is a valid GGA string.
[14:18] <ibanezmatt13_> I didn't know where to put it though
[14:18] <chrisstubbs> *snap
[14:18] <ibanezmatt13_> before closing port?
[14:18] <chrisstubbs> the line after you send to the serial port
[14:18] <chrisstubbs> but mfa298 is still right, you should have some form of validation
[14:19] <ibanezmatt13_> ok, I'll do that now. mfa298 that makes complete sense :)
[14:19] <ibanezmatt13_> flushing has made no difference :\
[14:21] <ibanezmatt13_> if I print the NMEA_sentence after reading, it returns sometimes a valid sentence and other times, a load of garbage and a sentence after it!
[14:21] <mfa298> As I've said several times. Check the data you're getting is valid!
[14:21] <ibanezmatt13_> I think the best way to sort that is to check that it starts with $
[14:22] <cardre> You have two devices connected to the same serial port also, writing at one speed (radio) and reading data from another one (gps)
[14:22] <cardre> this is going to mess up your serial buffers
[14:22] <mfa298> I'd probably check for $GPGGA (or whatever you get at the start of the sentence)
[14:22] <ibanezmatt13_> the confusing thing is. It was actually working perfectly before
[14:23] <ibanezmatt13_> cardre: what's the best way to avoid this? By checking for the sentence type at start
[14:23] <cardre> in your code you're opening the serial ports and the GPS could be part way through sending a string you've already missed the beginning of
[14:23] <ibanezmatt13_> oh that makes sense, of course
[14:23] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: it was probably working due to pure luck - which isn't going to help much when your payload is 30km above you.
[14:23] <ibanezmatt13_> exactly
[14:24] <cardre> I don't know how the other RPi HAB have done it, but ideally you need a separate serial port for each, then you don't keep opening/closing the same serial port with different speeds
[14:24] <ibanezmatt13_> so if data[0]="$GPGGA": do everything. else: ?
[14:25] <ibanezmatt13_> would I just do 'pass' for else?
[14:25] <cardre> i'd do a loop inside of your gps open/close that does this test until it gets a valid start string, like you suggested $GPGGA
[14:26] <cardre> that way you keep reading lines until you get one that starts with the valid string
[14:26] <cardre> then you're more likely to succeed in continuing with the rest of your code
[14:26] <ibanezmatt13_> If it is otherwise, should I just run 'pass' ?
[14:29] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: as cardre said I'd go for trying to read the string a few times from the gps (although after a few tries I'd probably give up and send a string possibly with the last known good position and some sort of error code (so you know what's happening)
[14:30] <nigelvh> K7NVH-11 is away
[14:31] <ibanezmatt13_> It's working now! :) At the moment, if it doesn't get a valid string it just passes it. I'll change that though. The checking for GPGGA is what was needed most I think. Thank you very much for the help :)
[14:32] <cardre> No prob. I'd still put a little test in there though, consistent bad timing may mean you keep missing the start of the string many times
[14:32] <cardre> so you should have a num_tries variable that counts down and exits the loop once you've got a valid start
[14:32] <ibanezmatt13_> yeah, now I realise why error checking is so important. Thanks
[14:33] Nick change: DrLuke__ -> DrLuke
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[15:00] <ibanezmatt13_> can anyone work out why dl-fldigi is not decoding anything https://www.dropbox.com/s/o0phvux4mpnbq82/fdgdfgf.jpg
[15:01] <ibanezmatt13_> and also why the two red shift lines keep moving to the right toward the end of the waterfall?
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[15:04] <nigelvh> K7NVH-11 is in the air on APRS.fi. Doesn't seem to be working on space near.us
[15:05] <daveake> you need to move your selection in the sdr program
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[15:06] <daveake> both "lines" need to be somewhere in the middle of the window in dl-fldigi
[15:07] <ibanezmatt13_> will i achieve that by turning the receiver freq down slightly?
[15:09] <daveake> in the SDR program there should be a waterfall where you selected a certain part of the range to send to dl-fldigi
[15:09] <daveake> Just move the selection
[15:09] <ibanezmatt13_> I'm not using an SDR program?
[15:09] <ibanezmatt13_> am I
[15:09] <ibanezmatt13_> ?
[15:10] <daveake> Thought you were. What's your receiver?
[15:10] <ibanezmatt13_> DJX-10
[15:10] <daveake> OK just twiddle the tuning knob then :)
[15:10] <ibanezmatt13_> up or down?
[15:10] <daveake> try it
[15:11] <daveake> surely easier than asking?
[15:11] <ibanezmatt13_> haha! It worked, and yes, I'm sorry but I ask far to much for things like this. I will try to refrain from doing so, sorry :\
[15:12] <daveake> Well, lots of times you actually know the answer so pretend we're not here for a moment :)
[15:13] <ibanezmatt13_> yes, if it's a pathetic question, just tell me to work it out myself :)
[15:13] <mfa298> most of these things, if you think you know the answer try it and see if you're right. It's the best way to learn and understand.
[15:13] <daveake> ^^ this
[15:13] <ibanezmatt13_> a valid question, I hope: what's the green bar at the right of the waterfall which keeps going up and down? And what does SQL mean
[15:14] <daveake> 1st is probably showing the signal strength
[15:15] <ibanezmatt13_> ah ok
[15:15] <daveake> SQL is Squelch you don't want that on
[15:15] <ibanezmatt13_> oh, it's on :\
[15:16] <ibanezmatt13_> it's off now, and it's made a massive difference! Almost every one now is being uploaded to the spacenear.us/tracker thing
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[15:16] <mfa298> Generally its best to have it off. otherwise you might miss bits of the signal when tracking a balloon at a distance (it may not make much difference witha strong signal)
[15:17] <ibanezmatt13_> I'll leave it off :)
[15:17] <chrisstubbs> Does anyone have experience driving a servo with a 3.3v signal? (the servo will still be powered by 6v externally)
[15:18] <daveake> Your actual radio will have a squelch knob turn that one way and it'll go silent at some point
[15:18] <daveake> and you should turn it the other way
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> All the way
[15:18] <ibanezmatt13_> that's on 0.
[15:18] <daveake> yep
[15:19] <ibanezmatt13_> how wide can the shift be?
[15:20] <daveake> Well it needs to be >= the baud rate
[15:20] <mfa298> if you really wanted to it could be 3KHz - but that's defenetly not recommended.
[15:20] <daveake> but not so wide that it takes up lots of the available bandwidth
[15:20] <ibanezmatt13_> it's on 425. Does that have anything to do with why I'm not getting a load of garbage in dl-fldigi?
[15:20] <daveake> because then listeners will have to keep retuning if the freq shifts during flight
[15:21] <daveake> 425 is fine for <= 300 baud
[15:21] <SpeedEvil> Also, you need the sidebands to get best SNR
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[15:21] <SpeedEvil> really
[15:21] <mattbrejza> it ideally has to be a multiple of the baud rate than just greater than the baud rate
[15:21] <mfa298> the shift set in dl-fldigi will need to be the same as your transmitter is using (the resistor network)
[15:21] <ibanezmatt13_> that's where I fail
[15:22] <ibanezmatt13_> I have no idea how to calculate the shift
[15:22] <ibanezmatt13_> absolutely no idea
[15:22] <number10> I am sure all you need to know is on the wiki ibanezmatt13_
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> IIRC about six times baud rate + shift - should be under the bandwidth of the receiver for optimal SNR
[15:22] <mfa298> its the set of sums on the wiki.
[15:22] <ibanezmatt13_> I followed the tutorial but the formulas made no sense
[15:23] <number10> thats not a fault with the tutorial
[15:23] <mfa298> they're just the resistor in series / resistor in parallel formulae
[15:23] <ibanezmatt13_> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2 Nah, it's my understanding that isn't right :)
[15:23] <Upu> ping nigelvh here now
[15:24] <nigelvh> Hey
[15:24] <nigelvh> K7NVH-11 is in the air.
[15:24] <nigelvh> Doesn't seem to be working on space near.us
[15:25] <Upu> oh
[15:25] <Upu> crap 1 min
[15:25] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: you might find the Detailed explanation link is easier to follow
[15:26] <Upu> fixed
[15:26] <nigelvh> Thanks
[15:26] <Upu> want the others on there ?
[15:26] <mfa298> it might be worth trying to work through what's there with those values and 5v and see if you can understand where the result comes from, then try putting in the values of your resistors and the 3.3v for the pi.
[15:26] <nigelvh> Sure, they're not in the air now, but will be in a bit
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[16:09] <cuddykid> what value pulldown resistor is right for gate to ground (mosfet)?
[16:09] <cuddykid> around 10k?
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[16:14] <SpeedEvil> Depends.
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> Values up to probably around 100 meg in some cases
[16:15] <SpeedEvil> What for?
[16:15] <SpeedEvil> Turnoff time will be about R*gateC
[16:16] <cuddykid> just to prevent gate from floating around
[16:16] Action: Laurenceb_ was thinking about the "spread spectrum beacon" idea
[16:16] <Laurenceb_> theres one really good use
[16:16] <Laurenceb_> finding rockoon altitude
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:17] <Laurenceb_> then you can have a second reference beacon + gps on the balloon
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: 10K isn't unreasonable
[16:17] <Laurenceb_> and very simple lightweight beacon with chip ant on the rockoon
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[16:19] <Hix> laurenceb_ what was the outrageously cheap IMU you linked to the other day?
[16:19] <Laurenceb_> maxim gyro you mean?
[16:19] <Laurenceb_> or the mpu-9150?
[16:19] <Hix> maxim i believe
[16:19] <Laurenceb_> search maxim site
[16:19] <Hix> k
[16:20] <Laurenceb_> maxim-ic, not the other one :P
[16:20] <Laurenceb_> no k7nvh updates :S
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> Maxim, and cheap used in the same sentance?
[16:20] Action: SpeedEvil has doubts.
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[16:22] <SpeedEvil> http://www.maximintegrated.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/7982 - that's not a terrible price for an 'ultra accurate gyro'
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> Now to read
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> 9mdps/sqrt(hz)
[16:23] <Hix> http://www.maximintegrated.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/7982
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> I guess that's 9 millidegrees per second
[16:23] <Hix> goddit
[16:23] <Laurenceb_> per root second
[16:23] <Hix> google automatically took me to Maxi.com too much silicon and not enough IC
[16:24] <Laurenceb_> so basically no random walk :P
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[16:26] <SpeedEvil> Aha!
[16:26] <SpeedEvil> 'angular random walk' - 0.45 degees an hour
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[16:27] <Hix> heh
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> Silly.
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> That would (for stationary stuff) get you a not terrible gyrocompass.
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[16:29] <qyx_> wait waht
[16:29] <qyx_> full scale 16bit adc?
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[16:29] <qyx_> hm, nice
[16:30] <qyx_> 960 digit/dps
[16:31] <Laurenceb_> but its the bias instability that kill it
[16:31] <Laurenceb_> well, for most gyros
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> Not read closely
[16:32] <qyx_> 4 deggree per hour
[16:32] <qyx_> but that can be calibrated
[16:32] <Laurenceb_> yeah only 2dps max
[16:32] <SpeedEvil> What's it once calibrated though
[16:33] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[16:33] <Laurenceb_> 4dph when calibrated
[16:33] <Hix> gif time http://goo.gl/jiasN
[16:34] <Laurenceb_> if you calibrated itd be good enough for strapdown
[16:34] <Laurenceb_> for some rocketry stuff
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> PRetty much.
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> Though I've not read the accellertion biases)
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> During launch phase, the drift due to random walk is bugger all.
[16:37] <Laurenceb_> there might be some acceleration coupling
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[16:39] <Laurenceb_> "lthough it is always a good practice to keep V
[16:39] <Laurenceb_> DD
[16:39] <Laurenceb_> clean
[16:39] <Laurenceb_> with minimum ripple, unlike most of the competitors, who require an ultra-low noise, low-dropout regulator t"
[16:39] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[16:39] <Laurenceb_> sync input too, thats very useful
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[16:42] <SpeedEvil> hmm
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[16:57] <qyx_> O_o the price is only ~4e?
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[17:01] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[17:01] <SpeedEvil> Wierd.
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[17:09] <cuddykid> is there anyway to check if I've buggered my mosfet whilst soldering?
[17:09] <cuddykid> circuit no longer works
[17:09] <Hiena> Check the DS, GS, DG resistances.
[17:10] <Hiena> The most common failure the GS and DS short.
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[17:12] <Hiena> Keep in mind the digital mosfet's usually has a parallel diode.
[17:13] <cuddykid> all are practically inifinite
[17:13] <cuddykid> so no connection between any
[17:13] <Hiena> Ok. Is it P or N type mostfet?
[17:13] <cuddykid> N
[17:14] <Hiena> How is it driven from your circuit?
[17:14] <cuddykid> just a simple arduino -> gate
[17:14] <cuddykid> was working fine on breadboard
[17:15] <cuddykid> think I've destroyed the fet whilst soldering
[17:15] <cuddykid> are they sensitive to heat?
[17:15] <Hiena> Nope. Rather the electrostatic discharge-
[17:16] <Hiena> Is your soldering iron low voltage type or it's running from the mains?
[17:16] <cuddykid> mains
[17:17] <Hiena> Yikes. No transformer?
[17:17] <cuddykid> oh, there's a big power supply/heat controller thing
[17:18] <Hiena> That sounds better.
[17:18] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Have I overdone the aerial for 70cms on the Campervan do you think ? http://tinyurl.com/mr7spwj
[17:18] <Hiena> cuddykid: do you have a schematic?
[17:19] <cuddykid> unfortunately not
[17:19] <Hiena> Is there serial resistor between the aurdino io and the gate?
[17:19] <cuddykid> no
[17:19] <cuddykid> wasn't before and it worked fine
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[17:21] <qyx_> Geoff-G8DHE_: that ball radome is on your car or on some building in the background?
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[17:22] <Geoff-G8DHE_> On the Van by the looks of it ;-)
[17:22] <Hiena> That not so wise. The Mosfet GS acts as a capacitor and when you flip the bit it's pulls a relatively high current. It could kill your mosfet or your controller.
[17:24] <SpeedEvil> also, extremal spicules can discharge through the drain gate capacitor and kill the driver
[17:24] <SpeedEvil> external spikes
[17:25] <Hiena> Try to isolate the Mosfet's gate and power it while you touch the gate and the supply line. If it's still working it should turn on.
[17:26] <Hiena> Your fingers will act as pull-up resistor.
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[17:28] <ibanezmatt13> http://sdrv.ms/11ehcjh I'm rather pleased :)
[17:30] <fsphil> well MS resisted the urge to plug IE. I'm surprised
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[17:32] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13_ nice work :)
[17:32] <chrisstubbs> still not using your desktop client yet though?
[17:32] <ibanezmatt13_> thanks. No not yet, will sort it now :)
[17:32] <ibanezmatt13_> xchat?
[17:33] <mfa298> xchat is a reasonable one for windows
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[17:33] <chrisstubbs> I use hydraIRC but it is a bit pants sometimes
[17:33] <fsphil> are you using LSB or is the RV button ticked? the stop bit seems to be on the lower frequency
[17:33] <ibanezmatt13_> every single line of data that dl-fldigi is decoding is turning green! I'll install xchat :) fsphil: RV
[17:34] <fsphil> ah. that means your backwards :)
[17:34] <ibanezmatt13_> say whaa ?
[17:34] <ibanezmatt13_> backwards?
[17:34] <fsphil> the stop bit is normally the high tone
[17:34] <fsphil> on the right
[17:35] <ibanezmatt13_> should I change it?
[17:35] <ibanezmatt13_> it is working fine though
[17:35] <fsphil> yea but everyone else will then have to press Rv too
[17:35] <fsphil> should just be a matter of swapping the resistors around
[17:36] <ibanezmatt13_> hmm, I had a bit of trouble with the resistors. I'll just specify in the notes clearly that dl-fldigi must be set to RV. :)
[17:36] <daveake> ???
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[17:36] <daveake> It's a Pi
[17:36] <daveake> So UART
[17:36] <daveake> So 1 pin not two
[17:36] <daveake> he'll be mis-tuned in his receiver
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[17:37] <ibanezmatt13_> 10 points to Griffindoor
[17:37] <ibanezmatt13_> :)
[17:37] Action: fsphil gets shownthedoor
[17:37] <ibanezmatt13_> haha :)
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[17:38] <fsphil> I've only used two-pins once, you'd think I'd remember this stuff
[17:38] <daveake> :)
[17:39] <chrisstubbs> fsphil: http://bit.ly/10PMU6L
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[17:40] <fsphil> huh
[17:40] <ibanezmatt13_> here you go http://sdrv.ms/13tQTrs
[17:40] <ibanezmatt13_> haha :)
[17:41] <chrisstubbs> aha nevermind, "shown the door" just made me laugh
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[17:43] <ibanezmatt13_> It's all well and good having this setup on a breadboard, but this will not be good enough for an actually HAB flight. So, how do I go about soldering. By that, I know how to solder, I just need to know what to solder. I guess I need stripboard, perhaps?
[17:43] <fsphil> reminds me of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9XrrEaZ7Y4
[17:43] <mfa298> stripboard is probably easiest as it's a similar concept to bread board
[17:44] <ibanezmatt13_> The only thing I'm thinking about is this: I need to design a payload box. I don't know what the dimensions of the final thing is gonna be. So I need to get the strip board thing right first time. Also, I read something about the NTX2 and GPS conflicting
[17:45] <mfa298> if you're feeling adventurous you might not need the stripboard. Just solder it dead bug/ ugly bug style. resistors straight onto the ntx2 pins etc.
[17:45] <ibanezmatt13_> nah, I'll go for stripboard. If I did that I'd mess it up, I'm sure :\
[17:46] <ibanezmatt13_> How far away must the GPS be from the NTX2?
[17:46] <mfa298> you can cut the stripboard down to a suitable size
[17:47] <ibanezmatt13_> seen as I have no idea of the dimensions, what would be an "appropriate" size that would almost certainly be ok?
[17:47] <mfa298> ideally you might want to aim to have the gps module nearer the top of the box (nearer the satellites) and the ntx2 at the bottom (nearer the recievers)
[17:47] <ibanezmatt13_> So will the strip board be vertically orientated?
[17:47] <mfa298> for the stripboard big enough to get the compoents on.
[17:48] <mfa298> You might not need strip board for the ntx2 - just use some suitable wires (either solder or with a header)
[17:48] <ibanezmatt13_> and I'll be putting the stripboard vertically in the box?
[17:49] <mfa298> which ever way makes sense for the payload box, antenna etc.
[17:49] <ibanezmatt13_> hmm, don't know. Wwill probably go for stripboard, but I'll consider it.
[17:49] <ibanezmatt13_> Thanks :)
[17:49] <mfa298> oops, sorry, meant you might not need the stripboard for the gps.
[17:50] <mfa298> unless you want to go for soldering the resistors onto the legs of the ntx2 you'll want stripboard for that ntx2
[17:50] <ibanezmatt13_> I'm not sure what you mean by using the GPS with a header as opposed to stripboard..
[17:51] <chrisstubbs> the header is the pins that came soldered onto your ublox breakout board
[17:51] <chrisstubbs> you can just wrap your wires around those and solder them
[17:51] <ibanezmatt13_> oh of course! Sorry, that was a bit thick :)
[17:52] <cuddykid> seems my circuit might have been right - was showing a high voltage with no load, but I mistakenly assumed it would be the same with load
[17:52] <cuddykid> deary me, electronics and me don't really go
[17:52] <cuddykid> I'll stick to software :)
[17:52] <daveake> <cough>MOSFETs<cough> :)
[17:52] <cuddykid> yes
[17:53] <ibanezmatt13_> Just thought I'd let you know that the wicker basket I've been sitting on has just collapsed and I am now inside it on top of many plugs :o
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:53] <cuddykid> they are accountable for 10years off my life haha
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13_: Ow
[17:53] <ibanezmatt13_> :)
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13_: Wicked.
[17:53] <ibanezmatt13_> good one :)
[17:53] <daveake> That's the last straw
[17:53] <ibanezmatt13_> not this again! :D
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> We'ave done this before.
[17:54] <ibanezmatt13_> how do you think of these so quickly? :)
[17:55] <daveake> We reed them on wikipedia
[17:55] <ibanezmatt13_> simply first class...
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[17:56] <chrisstubbs> I was going to say that, dave was just a bit qwicker
[17:57] <ibanezmatt13_> :)
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[17:57] <mfa298> like most stuff on this channel it's down to practice
[17:58] <ibanezmatt13_> daveake: you know that lm2596 switching regulator that's on a circuit board that you linked me to?
[17:58] <ibanezmatt13_> For the heat sink, is it better to get it with the heatsink attached, or if I got it separately, how would I attach the heatsink?
[17:58] <ibanezmatt13_> I believe I need this thermal interface pad
[17:59] <ibanezmatt13_> But where can I get that?
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[18:01] <daveake> You don't need a heatsink for those regs
[18:02] <ibanezmatt13_> really?
[18:02] <ibanezmatt13_> I've tested it and you're right, it doesn't get hot at all. I was just curious
[18:02] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100x100mm-thermal-heatsink-transfer-pad-Gap-Filler-Adhesive-pads-100-x-100-mm-/130890361224?pt=UK_Computing_Thermal_Compounds_Supplies&hash=item1e79ac6988
[18:02] <SpeedEvil> For example
[18:02] <ibanezmatt13_> thanks you SpeedEvil
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> It may be needed to be clamped, ideally
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> But those regulators don't need a heatsink for low power
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> IIRC at maximum - they really should
[18:03] <ibanezmatt13_> I won't bother with one, but thanks for that :)
[18:04] <SpeedEvil> Or at least blow air over them
[18:04] <daveake> Think about it ... the Pi/GPS/NTX2 takes 1W, and if those are say 80% efficient they'll dissipate about 200mW
[18:04] <daveake> Which is naff all
[18:05] <ibanezmatt13_> Here's what I was deliberating with my Dad earlier... If we've got all these components tightly packets in a box, surely they'd overheat up there. But also, surely they'd freeze up there. How can I make sure that the temperature remains appropriate?
[18:06] <daveake> In practice, with the insulation provided by the box, the internals won't get cold
[18:07] <daveake> You can measure it btw - the processor chip has a sensor
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> Pi wants about 2 really
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> but, yes
[18:07] <daveake> That will be 10-20 above ambient (I forget how much)
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> Oh - model A
[18:07] <daveake> yeah
[18:07] <ibanezmatt13_> will I require a certain material for the box? How do I access the CPU temperature?
[18:07] <ibanezmatt13_> Oh by the way!
[18:08] <ibanezmatt13_> In fact, nevermind
[18:08] <ibanezmatt13_> :)
[18:08] <daveake> google is your friend
[18:08] <ibanezmatt13_> I was going to say that I might use a model B, but I won't
[18:08] <daveake> no don't
[18:08] <ibanezmatt13_> yeah, just realised
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[18:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> all: what should look like "no gps lock" lat/lon fields (in config set as 0)
[18:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> [2013-06-01 18:14:12,650] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: CantExtractCallsign exception in simple_binary: CantExtractCallsign
[18:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> [2013-06-01 18:14:12,649] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: Exception in UKHAS main parse: ValueError: (field latitude): could not convert string to float:
[18:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> [2013-06-01 18:14:12,647] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: Selected payload_configuration eea7bee2205ef34be8f0c934ed51f555 for 'SP9UOB'
[18:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> [2013-06-01 18:14:12,592] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: Parsing [ascii] '$$SP9UOB,4,00:00:00,0.0,0.0,0,0,0,0,112,37,08*A928\n' (2dea095b6582ab583aff6c9fdc9b4af9f07af9008631056796a69e5d00b2a34f) from SP9UOB
[18:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> it returns an error 0.0
[18:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> and when is set to 0 (no decimal point) its still returns an error
[18:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> [2013-06-01 18:20:51,186] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: CantExtractCallsign exception in simple_binary: CantExtractCallsign
[18:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> [2013-06-01 18:20:51,186] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: Exception in UKHAS main parse: ValueError: (field latitude): need more than 1 value to unpack
[18:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> [2013-06-01 18:20:51,183] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: Selected payload_configuration eea7bee2205ef34be8f0c934ed51f555 for 'SP9UOB'
[18:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> [2013-06-01 18:20:51,117] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: Parsing [ascii] '$$SP9UOB,1,00:00:00,0,0,0,0,0,0,110,38,08*005D\n' (b4c064f2a9bb04ef61292c80e70d46ce558c05a8064e7d0c57a75bb25645486b) from SP9UOB
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[18:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> and im really have no idea what it should look like
[18:22] <cuddykid> this cutdown module is giving me so much grief
[18:23] <cuddykid> the one that said it should fire (given the continuity check) is refusing to fire
[18:23] <cuddykid> porting the breadboard to stripboard now doesn't work
[18:23] <cuddykid> just one thing after another
[18:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> cuddykid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdY7LFo6fCI ;-)
[18:24] <cuddykid> nice
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[18:31] <iain_G4SGX> Evening chaps. Well got my CRC working but have now realised why no-body uses a UART for keying the tx-module. Back to bit banging i suppose.
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[18:39] <fsphil> iain_G4SGX: only one uart eh?
[18:39] <qyx_> iain_G4SGX: why?
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[18:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> ok solved :-)
[18:42] <iain_G4SGX> Can't clock the UART that slow unless my clock frequency is really low. 300 Baud is absolute minimum with a 8Mhz clock. Planned to use 32Mhz
[18:42] <mattbrejza> also most uarts cant do 7bit
[18:42] <iain_G4SGX> 50 Baud is too slow..
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[18:44] <costyn_> zoom zoom zoom http://i.imgur.com/nwvzgSG.png
[18:45] <costyn_> distance between launch and landing about 2.5km
[18:45] <iain_G4SGX> 7 bit? Thought it was 8 bit and 2 stop bits. Have I missed summut else?
[18:45] <mfa298> it can be whatever you want (as long as dl-fldigi understands it)
[18:46] <mfa298> 7 bit will be slightly quicker and (i think) makes it harder to trigger an odd display bug in dl-fldigi that stops the decode screen from scrolling
[18:47] <qyx_> iain_G4SGX: what mcu?
[18:48] <iain_G4SGX> Ah OK. I did notice that problem last time on Dl-Flidgi. Using an PIC 18F87J94, with 4 USARTS and USB, 4K RAM, `128K Program space
[18:49] <fsphil> 8-bit is only really useful if you're sending binary data rather than just text
[18:49] <mattbrejza> yea 8 bit is just one more bit to go wrong
[18:49] <fsphil> the scroll bug is fixed in git but not released yet :)
[18:49] <SP9UOB-Tom> we should use baudot, but no * sign in the alphabet
[18:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: and GPS read bug ?
[18:50] <fsphil> baudot has a shift mode, makes it annoying
[18:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: there is no need to shift very often
[18:50] <fsphil> SP9UOB-Tom: no idea - runs fine here but I'm on linux
[18:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> telemetry string contains numbers
[18:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> at most
[18:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: on laptop i have only WIN7
[18:51] <fsphil> numbers are shifted
[18:51] <iain_G4SGX> If you're sending images also you'll need 8 buts though no?
[18:52] <fsphil> if the shift byte is lost the rest of the string is unreadable
[18:52] <fsphil> iain_G4SGX: yes
[18:52] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: i know, same with letters
[18:52] <SP9UOB-Tom> but 5 bits only :-)
[18:52] <SP9UOB-Tom> some kind of compression
[18:52] <fsphil> I made a 4-bit mode a while back
[18:53] <fsphil> not sure there is much point though
[18:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: does fldigi understand it ?
[18:53] <fsphil> just use 100 baud :)
[18:53] <daveake> 300 is so slow :p
[18:53] <fsphil> only special versions used it, was just playing about with it
[18:54] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:hatty
[18:54] <fsphil> numbers and commas are 4-bit, rest are 8-bit
[18:55] <fsphil> are you not on 2400 yet daveake?
[18:55] <SP9UOB-Tom> 9600 gmfsk
[18:55] <SP9UOB-Tom> but not with 10mW output
[18:55] <fsphil> would be nice
[18:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> another pico payload almost ready - launch in friday
[18:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> i've made decompresion valve :-)
[19:01] <iain_G4SGX> A thought did occur to me.. In the UK we can't transmit form the air, BUT we are allowed balloon antennas. (Well practised for low frequencies). SO is it that its attached to the ground that makes a difference or at whet end the feed point is? ie. MAybe its possible to test higher powers if its on a long line connected to the ground?
[19:03] <fsphil> you can't transmit from a tethered balloon either
[19:03] <fsphil> in your case for the HF stuff you're transmitting from the ground
[19:03] <fsphil> the balloon is just holding up the antenna
[19:03] <SP9UOB-Tom> really stupid regulations
[19:04] <fsphil> yep
[19:04] <chrisstubbs> so as long as the PTT button is on the ground its okay? ;)
[19:04] <fsphil> hah
[19:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> remote controlled PTT ?
[19:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> :-)
[19:05] <iain_G4SGX> So we can transmit from a long balloon wire if it if fed from the ground end but not the balloon end essentially.
[19:05] <iain_G4SGX> odd
[19:05] <fsphil> seems to read that way
[19:05] <fsphil> (c) Aircraft and Airborne Vehicles incl
[19:05] <fsphil> udes full size and models and also includes
[19:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> im wondering what's the point. If OFCOM allow TX airborne onle few people will use it
[19:05] <fsphil> balloons whether tethered or free;
[19:06] <fsphil> or do it through an exception or NoV to the regular license
[19:07] <fsphil> though that would require work
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[19:11] <chrisstubbs> I was thinking... you are not allowed to "broadcast" on a HAM license
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[19:11] <chrisstubbs> so how is APRS allowed, becuase you are not calling another HAM
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[19:14] <iain_G4SGX> I think its classed as a network node and special rules apply, not sure.
[19:14] <iain_G4SGX> Probably buried in the regs somewhere
[19:18] <ibanezmatt13> I've been thinking. For simplicity, for my first launch, I'm probably not going to use SSDV. Instead of this, I would prefer to use a webcam to take short HD videos and save them onto the Pi's SD card.
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[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[19:18] <ibanezmatt13> So for instance, every 120 seconds, take a 20 second 1080p video and save it.
[19:18] <ibanezmatt13> Evening :)
[19:18] <chrisstubbs> "Sorry, there was a problem retrieving your licence, please call our licensing team" screw you ofcom
[19:19] <ibanezmatt13> are there any programs I can install on the Pi which will allow me to control the capturing and saving of video?
[19:19] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, why no ssdv?
[19:20] <ibanezmatt13> well, I'm not that impressed with the results if I'm honest. I'd rather have good video footage that I can view after recovery. Also, it made my code look all over the place. I think simplicity for a first launch is ok
[19:20] <ibanezmatt13> If we successfully recover, I'll aim to do at least three this summer
[19:20] <mfa298> APRS might also be classed as a beacon
[19:21] <ibanezmatt13> So I can do SSDV then when I have more of an idea as to what I'm doing
[19:21] <lz1dev> ssdv kidna sucks over APRS
[19:22] <SP9UOB-Tom> lz1dev: im working on it
[19:22] <SP9UOB-Tom> 128 byte chunks
[19:22] <lz1dev> yep with user defined packet
[19:22] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: thats why a few days ago when we were talking about some of this I said about using fswebcam to save the files seperately. You can then have it store high res images to keep, and some lower res ones to send via ssdv. That way you have both live images and good quality images.
[19:22] <SP9UOB-Tom> RScodes are not needed
[19:22] <lz1dev> still its really slow
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[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, thanks again to you and Steve
[19:23] <ibanezmatt13> I could but I just wasn't really impressed with the results.
[19:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> to APRS-IS are routed only packets with OK CRC
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> the resistor method is awesome!
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> seems to need less voltage too for the same effect
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> which is logical
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[19:24] <SP9UOB-Tom> and huge receiver network
[19:25] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: I have an idea. I can use some sort of program to record 20 seconds of video, save it. Then take a low res picture, send it. Then take another 20 seconds of video, save it, etc...
[19:25] <daveake> LL what did I do?
[19:25] <ibanezmatt13> I'm more interested in video really
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, well you said I should just try the resistor cutdown and ask no more questions
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> or so
[19:25] <daveake> oh
[19:26] <daveake> np easy choice
[19:26] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: Do you know of any decent programs for Pi which can record x seconds of video and save it?
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, and I like the "show effect" better than with nichrome
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:27] <daveake> I use ffmpeg
[19:27] <ibanezmatt13> I've heard of that actually. I'll look into it. I used 'motion' once before and it didn't go to plan...
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[19:31] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: ffmpeg is an astronomical file, wow! If I put that one, surely I won't get any storage space?
[19:31] <ibanezmatt13> Unless I use a really big card
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[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: will it run ok on a 16GB card?
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> Will I be able to store enough HD video for say an hour or so
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[19:37] <daveake> Try it. I would think you'd need < 8GB for 1 hour
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> including having the ffmpeg installed?
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> I'll install it now
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[19:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all
[19:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> oh Radim
[19:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> hi
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> hi radim_OM2AMR and SP9UOB-Tom
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> I must go to the post office
[19:47] <radim_OM2AMR> take it easy Tom :-)
[19:47] <radim_OM2AMR> Hi Lunar Lander
[19:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> radim_OM2AMR: anyway i be driving to Italy somewhere near Your QTH :-)
[19:49] <radim_OM2AMR> Tom, when ? You can make little break
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[19:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> radim_OM2AMR: August i think. We love Bibione in northern Italy
[19:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> radim_OM2AMR: launching next weekend?
[19:51] <radim_OM2AMR> SP9UOB-Tom, yes, during our OM HAM FEST
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: I've had a look at how to compile ffmpeg. Cross-compiling using a toolchain looks pretty arduous. Would it work if I just did "sudo apt-get install ffmpeg?" Which one did you do?
[19:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> radim_OM2AMR: one possibility is drive trough Czech Republic, and second via slovakia
[19:52] <Ian_2E0XOD> Hi Guy's not sure if you are aware of the HAB launch Balcan One on Sunday 12;00 hrs ?
[19:52] <SP9UOB-Tom> radim_OM2AMR: one possibility is drive trough Czech Republic, and second via Slovakia
[19:52] <ibanezmatt13> Ian_2E0XOD: Where you launching from?
[19:53] <Ian_2E0XOD> Hi Balcan One will be launched fro Horncastle uk
[19:53] <radim_OM2AMR> SP9UOB-Tom, small pico payload, 100g beritex pilot balloon
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right, I'll see if I can track it :)
[19:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> radim_OM2AMR: we'll be listen :-)
[19:53] <Ian_2E0XOD> Great all reports welcome
[19:53] <fsphil> I read that as Bacon One
[19:54] <Ian_2E0XOD> Correct Balcan One
[19:54] <fsphil> Ian_2E0XOD: have you send a launch annoucement to the ukhas list?
[19:54] <fsphil> it's the best way to get listeners
[19:54] <SP9UOB-Tom> radim_OM2AMR: iw weather permits im planning to launch my last qualatex - this time with valve
[19:54] <Ian_2E0XOD> This was done today via Jess M0VBR
[19:55] <fsphil> ah, possibly stuck in the queue
[19:55] <Ian_2E0XOD> Hope to meet up with you Guy's on the forum
[19:55] <radim_OM2AMR> SP9UOB-Tom, we will try to make floater, we'll see
[19:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> ok im really tired today - night all
[19:56] <fsphil> night tom
[19:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> radim_OM2AMR: chase team in Poland will be ready :-)
[19:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> night
[19:56] <radim_OM2AMR> GN Tom
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[19:56] <Ian_2E0XOD> I am using the High Float liquid on this launch any suggestions on performance
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[19:57] <fsphil> what is that?
[19:57] <Ian_2E0XOD> The liquid is plased into your Balloon before launch
[19:57] <Ian_2E0XOD> This is guarenteed to stay afloat longer
[19:58] <fsphil> sounds risky :)
[19:58] <fsphil> if it stays up too long then I might be recovering it :)
[19:58] <Ian_2E0XOD> No it has been proven
[19:58] <fsphil> (I'm in N.Ireland)
[19:58] <Ian_2E0XOD> Hope you can recover
[19:59] <fsphil> got a product link?
[19:59] <Ian_2E0XOD> Yes I will look itup now
[20:00] <Ian_2E0XOD> The company is called BalloonHelium.co.uk
[20:00] <Ian_2E0XOD> Based in Leed uk
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[20:00] <fsphil> ah, that stuff is for party balloons
[20:01] <Ian_2E0XOD> The product is water based plastic solution
[20:02] <Ian_2E0XOD> The solution seals the Balloon inside to stop any Helium from escaping through the Balloon walls
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[20:02] <fsphil> I'm sceptical, but it's worth a go
[20:02] <fsphil> you might need quite a lot
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> also if it cures and the balloon expands it will crack and possible rip open the balloon
[20:03] <fsphil> does it have a temperature range?
[20:03] <fsphil> it gets very cold up there, a water-based product may freeze
[20:03] <daveake> water-based ... sounds like a really bad idea to me
[20:04] <fsphil> it's not the helium escaping that limits the flight times of weather balloons
[20:04] <fsphil> it's the stretching
[20:04] <Ian_2E0XOD> The water based solution will dry out over time and the plastic coating is expandable
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[20:05] <daveake> Bigger problem is UV attacking the Latex
[20:05] <fsphil> yea. we need latex suncreme
[20:05] <fsphil> eam*
[20:05] <Ian_2E0XOD> True all types of conditions have an effect on Balloons
[20:06] <daveake> For less leakage just use H2
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> well it is expandable
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> but the balloon will increase from 2 m in diameter to about 20 m
[20:06] <Ian_2E0XOD> Never thought about the Sun Cream
[20:06] <fsphil> but again unless you intend to float the balloon at altitude, none of this really matters
[20:07] <daveake> 20m LL?
[20:07] <Ian_2E0XOD> The WX Balloon diamiter is 2mtr the Burst size is 1.5 times is origional size
[20:08] <Ian_2E0XOD> Correct it is designed to stay as a floater much longer
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, well a 1500 expands to 10 m diameter
[20:08] <fsphil> aah you're floating
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> mixed that up, sorry
[20:08] <fsphil> then it will be heading for me
[20:08] <Ian_2E0XOD> #]This will give you a possible bigger distance
[20:08] <fsphil> not planning on recovering it then?
[20:09] <Ian_2E0XOD> Depends on where it lands but all possibilities are welcomed
[20:10] <Ian_2E0XOD> Like NASA once used it may be too expencive to recover
[20:10] <fsphil> what are you flyin?
[20:10] <fsphil> +g
[20:10] <Ian_2E0XOD> I am looking at about 100gms or less
[20:11] <fsphil> 100g balloon?
[20:11] <Ian_2E0XOD> No the payload
[20:11] <fsphil> how big is the balloon?
[20:11] <fsphil> s/big/heavy/
[20:11] <Ian_2E0XOD> Balloon lifting power approx 300 gms
[20:12] <Ian_2E0XOD> 2mtr diamiter
[20:12] <fsphil> aaah I thought it was bigger
[20:12] <fsphil> I don't believe anyone has floated a balloon smaller than 1000g?
[20:13] <daveake> Is this type known to float?
[20:13] <fsphil> they tend to just burst, or develop a slow leak
[20:13] <Ian_2E0XOD> That will be the next stage if all 6 launches are successfull
[20:14] <Ian_2E0XOD> That is true if the lifting power is to great then the altertude is reached much quicker giving you a shorter distance depending on conditions
[20:15] <Ian_2E0XOD> Many Amateurs test out progects using this method
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[20:15] <fsphil> by floating we mean they reach a certain altitude, and then stop ascending
[20:15] <fsphil> they float at a mostly fixed altitude
[20:15] <Ian_2E0XOD> Correct
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[20:15] <fsphil> a slow ascent rate before burst isn't floating
[20:16] <fsphil> it certainly gets you more distance if the winds are good
[20:16] <ibanezmatt13> I've just tried to install ffmpeg onto my pi by doing "sudo apt-get install ffmpeg" and it finished installing in 30 seconds, and it's supposed to take 10 hours! So, it didn't work. Any other ways I can install ffmpeg onto my Pi?
[20:16] <fsphil> I managed 500km on a regular flight
[20:16] <fsphil> 2m/s ascent I believe
[20:16] <daveake> 10 hours to build from scratch
[20:16] <ibanezmatt13> apparently
[20:17] <daveake> install shouldn't take long
[20:17] <ibanezmatt13> sorry, compiling
[20:17] <ibanezmatt13> will ffmpeg definitely do what I need?
[20:17] <Ian_2E0XOD> I have managed to make up all the Payload equipment within a few days depending on my work load
[20:18] <fsphil> got it tested and appearing on the map?
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[20:19] <Ian_2E0XOD> fsphil - well done - I am looking forward t your next launch
[20:19] <fsphil> me too
[20:19] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: "Be aware, though, that Raspberry Pi does not have a very powerful hardware (it has a Broadcom System On a Chip (SoC), which includes 700 MHz ARM processor, with possible overclocking up-to 1 GHz, VideoCore IV GPU and usually is shipped with 256/512 MB of RAM memory), so you probably won't be able to run any kind of encoder on it, but you can use it as a very cheap 1080 media player."
[20:20] <fsphil> the winds are very poor atm for floating from here -- it just heads out over the atlantic ocean
[20:20] <fsphil> never to be seen again :)
[20:20] <Ian_2E0XOD> 500km that is a very good distance - what was the conditions then
[20:20] <fsphil> I believe Upu described the conditions as "blizzard"
[20:20] <fsphil> it wasn't even meant to go that far
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[20:20] <Ian_2E0XOD> Have you reied out using 2 Ballons tethered together
[20:21] <fsphil> https://secure.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/6454843377/in/set-72157628264170117
[20:21] <Ian_2E0XOD> Thanks
[20:21] <Ian_2E0XOD> Not bad at all
[20:22] <Ian_2E0XOD> We need the Tropical Storm winda from the USA to better the distance
[20:23] <Ian_2E0XOD> Directions would be in a North Easterly direction the changing South Easterly
[20:23] <fsphil> or balloons that float more than a few days
[20:23] <fsphil> the record is california to spain
[20:23] <fsphil> 3 days I think
[20:24] <Ian_2E0XOD> The directions on the Product state a floating time of 3 Days that will be at MSL
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[20:24] <Ian_2E0XOD> Now that is a Record
[20:24] <fsphil> what ascent rate will you be aiming for?
[20:25] <Ian_2E0XOD> Possibly 2-4/s
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[20:25] <fsphil> I'll be very surprised if that floats
[20:26] <daveake> Is this intended to float or is that another flight?
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[20:26] <Ian_2E0XOD> That depends on the Conditions eb warm/cold damp/dry and preasure settings
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[20:27] <Ian_2E0XOD> Hopefully once the altertude is reached then float
[20:28] <fsphil> would be nice to see a small balloon floating
[20:28] <Ian_2E0XOD> We are experiencing Strong Sun conditions due to the CME on May 31st 2013
[20:28] <fsphil> CME will have zero effect on your balloon
[20:28] <daveake> I don't know if anyone has floated a 100g balloon, but generally the ascent rate needs to be lower than 2-4 m/s
[20:28] <Ian_2E0XOD> This will mean weathe rconditions may change in the next few days
[20:29] <daveake> There was a 2000g flight last weekend at about 2.5m/s average, and that didn't float
[20:29] <daveake> Personally I'd aim at around 1m/s and see how that goes
[20:29] <fsphil> CMEs have zero effect on weather
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[20:29] <ibanezmatt13> Lost connection :\
[20:30] <Ian_2E0XOD> CME effects Upper Jet Streams
[20:30] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 sorry I was a bit slow ... if you want to record HD video on the Pi you need the Pi cam not a webcam
[20:30] <daveake> and the supplied s/w not ffmpeg
[20:30] <Ian_2E0XOD> I will try your suggestion at 1m/s
[20:30] <ibanezmatt13> is the pi cam on sale yet?
[20:30] <daveake> Yes but prolly sold out by now
[20:31] <daveake> 1m/s is a good starting point
[20:31] <ibanezmatt13> I will look around, thanks :)
[20:31] <Ian_2E0XOD> Thanks for that information
[20:32] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: I think they've sold out :(
[20:34] <Ian_2E0XOD> Thanks for the Chat Guy's hopr to meet you on the forum later 73 for now Ian
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[20:38] <ibanezmatt13> Will more Pi Cams be manufactured?
[20:40] <ibanezmatt13> in the near future?
[20:40] <daveake> Yep
[20:41] <daveake> They ordered 10k for the first batch
[20:41] <daveake> Unsurprisingly those didn't last long
[20:43] <ibanezmatt13> how long do you reckon they'll be?
[20:44] <ibanezmatt13> and the software it comes with, will that allow the controlled recording and saving of videos every x seconds without the use of any other programs?
[20:44] <daveake> no idea
[20:44] <daveake> yes
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> ok, that would be perfect. I just registered my interest with Farnell. Apparently they'll inform me when they're in stock. Thanks :)
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[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, friend of mine got himself a Raspberry B and installed Archlinux on it
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> he is quite satisfied with it
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[20:53] Action: Hix has entered a world of pain trying to understand 2/3 axis stabilisation
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[20:54] <SpeedEvil> go for 4 axis.
[20:55] <Hix> may as well make it 6, save arsing around
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> true
[20:55] <Hix> :D
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[21:03] <Hix> found this, for those that were discussing controlling a HAB camera pointing at the ground for the eclipse http://goo.gl/CEFTk
[21:03] <Hix> mostly so it's in the logs
[21:05] <chrisstubbs> I love how it just goes on to PWM trolling
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[21:07] <Hix> http://www.euclideanspace.com/maths/algebra/vectors/lookat/index.htm was embedded too
[21:07] <Hix> that's when i opted out
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[21:09] Action: Hix need to take a long hard look at himself and ask "wtf are you doing on a Saturday evening in sumer"
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[21:45] <cuddykid> has anyone else experience a significant amount of duff rocket igniters (Estes)?
[21:45] <cuddykid> I think I might have had a bad batch
[21:45] <cuddykid> one of my packs - the majority don't work
[21:45] <Upu> every one I had worked
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> try baking in the oven at 200c
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> more seriously
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> stored in good condiorions?
[21:46] <cuddykid> still trying to get my head around why the continuity checked said ok, but it didn't fire
[21:46] <cuddykid> yeah
[21:46] <cuddykid> all dry
[21:47] <cuddykid> I put 12v through the one that passed continuity check - still didn't budge
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[21:49] <cuddykid> oh you stupid chinese battery connector - new one and the connection is awful
[21:52] <cuddykid> Upu: do you have a copy of the code that the board is running? (as you sent me)
[21:54] <Upu> yup
[21:55] <Upu> you need to change the define for the STATUS_LED & RFM22B_SDN
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[21:57] <Upu> RFM22B_SDN = 9
[21:57] <Jess--> anyone help with a bit of quick advice, I need to put a message on the ukhas mailing list announcing a launch for tomorrow, which list do I add it to ukhas launches or just ukhas?
[21:57] <Upu> and LEDS are A2/A3
[21:57] <Upu> just UKHAS
[21:58] <Jess--> Cheers Upu, getting nervous now ;)
[21:58] <Jess--> the old vbrtest tracker will be flying under the name of balcan-one-a
[21:58] <Upu> where are you launching from ?
[21:58] <Jess--> horncastle
[21:59] <Upu> oh up north ish
[21:59] <Upu> got a NOTAM ?
[22:00] <Jess--> all in place as far as I am aware, handled by 2e0xod (Ian)
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[22:01] <mattbrejza> done a flight doc?
[22:01] <Jess--> yes, that was done this afternoon
[22:02] <Upu> and whats the est burst ?
[22:03] <Jess--> unknown to me, Ian should be able to give me more info tomorrow
[22:04] <Upu> well good luck
[22:06] <cuddykid> that's a nice bit of code Upu :)
[22:06] <Upu> ta
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[22:06] <Upu> no temp sensing
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[22:07] <cuddykid> or no OK led?
[22:07] <cuddykid> easy to pop those in though
[22:07] <Upu> yeah yeah your board is different to mine
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[22:07] <Upu> I only have one LED
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[22:11] <ibanezmatt13> does anybody have a picture of an ntx2 and gps soldered onto a stripboard?
[22:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Jess Baughan "[UKHAS] Balcan One Launch Announcement 02.06.2013"
[22:12] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/TINY-closeup.png
[22:12] <ibanezmatt13> thanks Upu :-)
[22:13] <ibanezmatt13> so i guess id do pretty much the same on some stripboard instead of that shield?
[22:15] <S_Mark> ibanezmatt13: http://www.stratodean.co.uk/2013/04/the-gps-tracker.html
[22:15] <ibanezmatt13> thanks :-)
[22:16] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: only read some of the scrollback - but as I said the other day, learn to use apt. When looking for software that is the best way to get stuff on rasbian (or any debian based linux distribution). Downloading tar.gz files (or similar) and compiling manually should be a last resort!
[22:17] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok, thanks mfa298. thankfully, i dont need that software now :-)
[22:18] <mfa298> also with the Pi just try things out, that's the way to see if things work (and also learn). Unless you're seriously overclocking the pi there's not much you can break that can't be fixed by re-flashing the SD card.
[22:18] <mfa298> still learn to use apt. If you want to get on well with linux distributions getting to know the package managment system is a *very* good first step.
[22:19] <ibanezmatt13> ok, ill learn it :-)
[22:19] <mfa298> it's the equivalent of learning to run setup.exe on windows (and add/remove programs or programs and features for removing software)
[22:20] <chrisstubbs> Jumping on the bandwagon http://bit.ly/13uvK0d #resistorbodge
[22:20] <mfa298> except apt has much more software and will actually remove things properly
[22:20] <ibanezmatt13> that makes sense
[22:21] <chrisstubbs> Evening S_Mark
[22:22] <chrisstubbs> I forgot to say you will want to add upu's and sparkfun's libraries when you get started with eagle
[22:22] <Upu> sparkfun one for sure :)
[22:23] <arko> YYEEEHAA!!!
[22:23] <chrisstubbs> Upu does your PAVA code read battery voltage from the ADC?
[22:24] <arko> Habexpico1 was recovered in the mohave!
[22:24] <arko> just now
[22:24] <arko> they are headed back to town
[22:24] <chrisstubbs> result!
[22:24] <arko> crazy desert people
[22:24] <arko> these dudes are nuts
[22:24] <arko> and awesome
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[22:24] <ibanezmatt13> is stripboard like a breadboard? Does it allow current to flow through rows?
[22:24] <arko> they were looking for an excuse to go out there
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> just deserts
[22:24] <arko> while im stuck here doing my final project
[22:24] <Upu> no I turned it off , if you disable the internal ADC it saves noticeable power
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: yes
[22:24] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, correst
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[22:25] <chrisstubbs> Upu ah okay fair enough. Just got it working on mine but its using 110mA :(
[22:25] <chrisstubbs> seeking gps + writing to sd + transmitting, so i suppose its doing a lot
[22:26] <Upu> using a step up ?
[22:26] <chrisstubbs> nope, step down if anything (3.3v LDO) http://chris-stubbs.co.uk/wp/?p=280
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[22:27] <Upu> probably about right if its acquiring
[22:27] <Upu> anyway night all
[22:28] <arko> nice!
[22:28] <arko> night*
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[22:31] <Iain-G4SGX_> I see most if not all micro's use a crystal clock. Has anyone tried using the internal RC clock available on most uP ? I'm using interrupts ans assembler so clock accuracy is not too important for me.
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[22:32] <S_Mark> Hi sorry here now!
[22:32] <Iain-G4SGX_> I wondered if stability at low temps was a problem
[22:32] <ibanezmatt13> off to bed for me. I'll undoubtedly be up on here at 7 :-) good night!
[22:33] <chrisstubbs> Iain-G4SGX_, used but not flown with, not sure if i would trust it either!
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[22:34] <qyx_> Iain-G4SGX_: using internal RC clock most of things requiring accurate timing will not work
[22:35] <qyx_> often RC is not stable enough to be used for serial communication
[22:35] <Iain-G4SGX_> Will have to stick an Xtal in then. Saved me some wasted time ! Seems stable enuf down here but probably the foirst thing to go when it gets cold.
[22:35] <mfa298> I know a few people have asked about using the internal clock and the general feeling is that the clock won't be stable enough for talking to the GPS.
[22:36] <mattbrejza> the ubloxes dont seem to care to about a somewhat lower baud, but they do for slightly faster ones
[22:36] <mfa298> if it drifts a bit what the uC thinks is 9600 baud may not be 9600 baud.
[22:37] <mattbrejza> oc 'somewhat' and 'slightly' isnt very useful
[22:37] <Iain-G4SGX_> Is there a clock out of the Ublox for synchronous? Just being lazy, got the spec sheet here, havent got that far yet!
[22:37] <mattbrejza> i2c
[22:37] <mattbrejza> shame no spi
[22:37] <mattbrejza> (on max 6)
[22:41] <Iain-G4SGX_> I got a space on the board for an xtal, but will have to check sizes formats etc. On the right of the chip in this photo http://www.g4sgx.org/images/pic.jpg
[22:44] <mattbrejza> can you derive the system clk from that watch xl?
[22:45] <Iain-G4SGX_> Its only 32K but yes
[22:46] <mattbrejza> for the same ppm temperature cooefficent a 32k or 4M crystal will have the same error
[22:46] <mattbrejza> so it doesnt matter
[22:46] <mattbrejza> it might have more jitter but it doesnt matter
[22:46] <mattbrejza> even if its ppm is a bit crap its still better than internal
[22:49] <Iain-G4SGX_> Yeh, worth thinking about. Speed will only be an issue if i start working the chip harder later on I suppose. Good point.
[22:49] <mattbrejza> oh by 'derive' i ment PLL it up to 1MHz or so
[22:49] <mattbrejza> mind you 32kHz still might be enough
[22:50] <mattbrejza> or just drive the UART module from the 32khz crystal
[22:51] <Iain-G4SGX_> PLL not possible on that oscillator config. Only on the main oscillator or internal. The UART is tied to the main clock generator I beleive.
[22:52] <mattbrejza> well at least there is a spot on that board for an external main xl
[22:52] <mattbrejza> unless you wanted the challange of the code running at 32k
[22:52] <mattbrejza> which it should be for a basic tracker
[22:53] <arko> http://imgur.com/a/jSOVz#0
[22:53] <Iain-G4SGX_> yep. In assembler not too much of a challenge. No delay loops just interupts
[22:54] <Iain-G4SGX_> Pretty much time any routines quite accurately.
[22:54] <mattbrejza> very different landing locations were you are arko :P
[22:54] <arko> :)
[22:54] <arko> yeah
[22:55] <arko> launched this after my talk
[22:55] <arko> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-v-B03a1Jk
[22:55] <mattbrejza> :)
[22:56] <S_Mark> Watching your vid arko!
[22:56] <S_Mark> Good so far :p
[22:56] <arko> haha
[22:56] <arko> its pretty crappy
[22:56] <arko> probably the worst talk i've given
[22:57] <arko> but i hope its fun
[22:57] <fsphil> it's not easy doing talks
[22:57] <S_Mark> very clear explanations though!
[22:57] <S_Mark> Have retweeted lol
[22:58] <S_Mark> whats layerone then?
[22:58] <arko> its a hacker conference in los angeles
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[23:01] <arko> im usually fine giving talks, but this one i got really really nervious
[23:01] <mattbrejza> new temperature sensor fianlly working: http://i.imgur.com/Cc7nROz.jpg
[23:01] <arko> this talk is probably stupid simple for folks here, its pretty basic
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[23:09] <chrisstubbs> haha picoamericur
[23:10] <arko> thats Upu's picture
[23:10] <arko> i totally forgot to mention it in the talk
[23:10] <arko> >_>
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[23:16] <S_Mark> I think the ukhas conference should be at JPL
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[23:17] <chrisstubbs> and they should pay for our flights!
[23:17] <S_Mark> agreed
[23:17] <fsphil> nah, I'd rather they do more rockets
[23:18] <arko> hahaha
[23:18] <arko> you know what
[23:18] <arko> i agrree
[23:18] <arko> lets do that
[23:18] <arko> i dont have to fly out there then
[23:18] <arko> but i do want to visit
[23:22] <S_Mark> good plan
[23:22] <S_Mark> right I am off for now, catch ya tomorrow
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[23:22] <arko> later!
[23:22] <arko> and youre gone
[23:22] <chrisstubbs> haha
[23:23] <chrisstubbs> can you put up a copy of your presentation at some point? :)
[23:23] <arko> oh sure
[23:23] <arko> i can do that right now
[23:24] <chrisstubbs> awesome :) not too death by powerpointey so I like it!
[23:24] <chrisstubbs> bullet points and not reading from the slides
[23:24] <arko> uploadin'
[23:25] <arko> yeah
[23:25] <arko> i did say "um and uh" alot
[23:25] <arko> a lot*
[23:25] <arko> http://wiki.032.la/images/Near_Space_Exploration.pptx
[23:25] <arko> booya
[23:26] <chrisstubbs> awesome cheers dude :)
[23:26] <chrisstubbs> does the camera guy fall over 30 mins? the camera just spins round haha
[23:27] <chrisstubbs> I'm doing some school talks/launches at some point with domlin so will need to put together a very compressed powerpoint for it
[23:28] <arko> fall over?
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[23:29] <chrisstubbs> at 30 mins the camera just gets knocked to the side then moved back :P
[23:29] <arko> oh i dunno
[23:29] <arko> hah
[23:32] <fsphil> u.k.haus -- I don't think I've ever said that word out loud
[23:32] <anerDev> hey guys
[23:33] <fsphil> morning anerDev
[23:33] <anerDev> morning yo fsphil
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[23:33] <arko> fsphil ha!
[23:33] <arko> i was wondering
[23:33] <anerDev> is very late and I'm returning from the disco lol
[23:33] <arko> how do you actually say that word?
[23:34] <fsphil> i'd probably say it the same way
[23:34] <fsphil> or haas
[23:35] <arko> haha
[23:35] <arko> weird words
[23:35] <arko> dlfidilfiddilfdli
[23:35] <arko> is the other one
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[23:36] <fsphil> lol yea, I think I heard someone call that flidigy
[23:36] <fsphil> fladigy
[23:38] <fsphil> ah man, you don't have a business card
[23:38] <fsphil> that was a good talk
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[00:00] --- Sun Jun 2 2013