highaltitude.log.20130530

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[00:04] <arko> fly a pure helium balloon to find out :P
[00:04] <arko> thats expensive stuff
[00:10] <KT5TK_QRL> it could be the humidity of the surronding atmosphere though
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[00:11] <arko> ah
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[00:12] <KT5TK_QRL> At least I noticed that the altitude of several floaters was connected with a 0 C temperature.
[00:14] <KT5TK_QRL> Picos I mean
[00:17] <arko> oh interesting
[00:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> ok night all
[00:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> see You tomorrow
[00:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> i mean today ;-)
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[00:18] <KT5TK_QRL> SP9UOB gn and good DX for your balloon!
[00:19] <KT5TK_QRL> It's supposed to turn West, so that I can pick it up in Berlin...
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[03:21] <heathkid> dang RPI camera boards...
[03:22] <heathkid> in stock... not in stock... shipping... no. wait... huh? do they really exist? (yes I know they do)... worth a 101 day wait?
[03:23] <heathkid> at this point I'd trade a BeagleBone Black for a RPi camera...
[03:23] <heathkid> any takers?
[03:26] <heathkid> didn't think so...
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[04:23] <x-f> woo, it's still flying!
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[04:23] <arko> fly on you crazy diamond!
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[04:24] <arko> looks like it's climbing
[04:24] <x-f> because of sunrise
[04:25] <x-f> it hasn't been received for 30 minutes now
[04:25] <arko> uh oh
[04:25] <x-f> Polish hams need to wake up
[04:25] <arko> srsly
[04:25] <arko> wake up poland!
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[04:35] <KT5TK_> Oh, New data coming in for SP9UOB
[04:35] <arko> its alive!
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[05:17] <KT5TK_> SP9UOB burst
[05:18] <x-f> :(
[05:18] <Darkside> KT5TK_: why are you flying a habamp?
[05:18] <KT5TK_> It's part of my 70cm to 10m transverter
[05:18] <Darkside> ooh
[05:19] <KT5TK_> http://kt5tk.wordpress.com
[05:19] <Darkside> oooooh
[05:19] <Darkside> nice
[05:20] <Darkside> open sourcing the design? :-)
[05:20] <KT5TK_> Well, it's basically the developmentboard
[05:21] <KT5TK_> But I'll design a PCB for the MAX3543 if it works fine
[05:21] <Darkside> cool
[05:22] <KT5TK_> The Arduino code is on my blog
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[05:28] <py2uep> could anyone tell me a reference for the transmitter sp9uob is using?
[05:30] <Darkside> reference?
[05:30] <Darkside> pretty sure he made it
[05:32] <py2uep> yes, ie: the rtty modulator he is using.
[05:32] <Darkside> most likely either a radiometrix NTX2 or a RFM22B
[05:34] <py2uep> ok, Darkside. Thank you.
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[05:39] <arko> uh oh
[05:39] <arko> did the balloon pop?
[05:41] <arko> woah
[05:41] <arko> what just happened?
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[05:43] <arko> well it looks like its out of radio range now
[05:45] <jcoxon> morning
[05:45] <arko> morning jcoxon
[05:46] <jcoxon> so think it rose due to sunrise?
[05:46] <jcoxon> and rose too high
[05:46] <jcoxon> ?
[05:46] <Upu> but early for that
[05:46] <Upu> bit
[05:47] <Upu> oh wait
[05:47] <Upu> 4.30am local time
[05:47] <Upu> yeah makes sense and got to just below 5km
[05:47] <arko> sucks that it popped
[05:47] <Upu> need to launch at night then it seems :)
[05:49] <x-f> local time in Poland is GMT+2 (DST)
[05:49] <jcoxon> need to launch in winter in the north
[05:50] <arko> winter is coming
[05:50] <jcoxon> as an experiement we should launch in hte morning and see if we can actually get float
[05:50] <jcoxon> most of my floats have launched quite late
[05:50] <Upu> I think next time I launch I'll do it later on it the day
[05:51] <Upu> got one here ready to go just waiting on weather
[05:51] <arko> nice
[05:52] <jcoxon> to maximise flight we need to reduce the sunrise/sunset impact
[05:52] <Upu> suggestions ?
[05:53] <Upu> white balloon ?
[05:55] <jcoxon> yeah, silver is as good as we'll get i suspect
[05:55] <jcoxon> some sort of active management
[05:56] <jcoxon> i think we need to do some pressure measurements inflight
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[06:38] <ibanezmatt13> good morning :) How did lastnight's launch go?
[06:39] <x-f> it went down
[06:39] <lz1dev> hmm, very strange
[06:40] <lz1dev> it rased in altitude at around 2am
[06:40] <lz1dev> raised*
[06:40] <UpuWork> local time = sunrise lz1dev
[06:40] <ibanezmatt13> That's interesting
[06:40] <daveake> yup
[06:40] <lz1dev> UpuWork: you are right
[06:41] <ibanezmatt13> Was it recovered
[06:43] <UpuWork> not yet it only went down an hour ago
[06:43] <ibanezmatt13> this is the one in england right?
[06:43] <arko> Poland
[06:44] <ibanezmatt13> thought so
[06:44] <arko> http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=SP9UOB
[06:44] <ibanezmatt13> I've got it now
[06:45] <ibanezmatt13> 5000m. Is it supposed to be a really high flight or is this normal?
[06:46] <UpuWork> it was a foil party balloon
[06:47] <ibanezmatt13> really?
[06:48] <UpuWork> yep
[06:49] <ibanezmatt13> wow
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[06:49] <fsphil> impressive flight
[06:50] <ibanezmatt13> it's travelled pretty far.
[06:50] <fsphil> james had done that got to scotland
[06:51] <number10> and sweden
[06:52] <arko> wow, very impressive, i didnt know it was a foil balloon
[06:53] <number10> I had two that landed just off the coast of suffolk and norfolk :( failed to float
[06:53] <number10> must do another
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[08:35] <anerDev> hi guys !
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[08:38] <ibanezmatt13> Hi all
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[08:40] <Babs> Any word on what happened with SP9UOB?
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[08:42] <costyn> Babs: burst this morning
[08:42] <costyn> Babs: 07:17 < KT5TK_> SP9UOB burst <-- so 6:17 your time
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[08:46] <Babs> Thanks costyn - it looked to have risen in the morning sun i guess which is probably what pushed it over the edge?
[08:47] <costyn> I guess... wasn't really following it... was there something special about this floater?
[08:47] <Babs> not sure
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[08:49] <ibanezmatt13> ping UpuWork
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[08:54] <ibanezmatt13> I'm trying to understand how the shift is calculated on this tutorial using a voltage divider but I can't seem to fully understand it http://www.ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[08:55] <eroomde> mornatron
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[08:56] <ibanezmatt13> morning :)
[08:57] <HixWork> moaning
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[08:59] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, the shift is controlled by voltage differential, which is controlled by the divider
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[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> I got that bit, it's just I can't work out what is going on with those calculations.
[09:00] <ibanezmatt13> || means 'or' doesn't it?
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[09:00] <daveake> parallel
[09:00] <HixWork> gotcha, that bit had me stumped. ping costyn
[09:01] <ibanezmatt13> there's this as well http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:ntx2_divider.jpg
[09:02] <daveake> Basically, when the data pin is high it is (effectively) putting R3 in parallel with R5
[09:02] <daveake> When low it puts it in parallel with R4
[09:02] <daveake> After that it's straight potential divider maths
[09:02] <ibanezmatt13> ah that makes sense. I just couldn't visualise that. Thanks
[09:02] <HixWork> that jpg has been added since i had the p[roblem, it explains how || works top right
[09:03] <daveake> Yeah once you "get" that bit it's easy
[09:04] <ibanezmatt13> However, for a Pi, I assume the calculations will differ
[09:04] <HixWork> thanks for the helper sheet btw Randomskk
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[09:11] <costyn> HixWork: hiya
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[09:12] <daveake> ibanezmatt13> However, for a Pi, I assume the calculations will differ
[09:12] <daveake> Why?
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[09:12] <HixWork> morning Costyn. issue sorted, it was a voltage divider question, but randomskk has added a helper sheet
[09:13] <HixWork> daveake, ibanezmatt13 has left the building
[09:13] <costyn> HixWork: ok :)
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[09:13] <HixWork> you all goos?
[09:13] <HixWork> *good
[09:13] <daveake> I'm always too slow
[09:14] <eroomde> i am SPLENDID
[09:14] <costyn> Randomskk: nice helper sheet
[09:14] <costyn> Randomskk: I haven't seen someoen with such nice handwriting in a while
[09:17] <HixWork> i thought it was pretty succinct, very neat too
[09:17] <HixWork> that good eroomde
[09:17] <costyn> yes
[09:17] <HixWork> sometimes notees beat a wiki :)
[09:19] <eroomde> catching someone when they're in finals-revision mode is a good idea too
[09:20] <eroomde> fast and waffle-free but thorough derivations
[09:20] <eroomde> the art of answering an exam question :)
[09:20] <HixWork> heh
[09:20] <jonsowman> mm
[09:20] <jonsowman> tell me about it
[09:20] <jonsowman> i should scan my notes
[09:25] <anerDev> Upu why in the sto re there isn't excap usb dongle ?
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[09:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> morning all :-)
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[09:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not a bad flight, suprised how early it started to rise!
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[09:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> Geoff-G8DHE: it Was 4:30 am local time, few minutes after local sunrise
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[09:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah yes of course you are quite a way East of us! Must wake up ;-)
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[09:35] <Babs_> ping fsphil
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[09:36] <fsphil> pong Babs_
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[09:44] <Babs_> fsphil - sorry, got your query on the airport photo time, tracked it to the gps trace via the flight logs and it didn't make sense. The flight log at the time of the photo had it 4k in altitude and at the wrong orientation to the photo.
[09:45] <Babs_> I looked at it hard for an hour, picked up my camera and realised that the time was wrong on it, hence the time stamps on all of the photos were wrong
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[09:45] <eroomde> nice
[09:46] <Babs_> EDIT: fsphil to answer your original query - ~5 mins after launch, 872m in height
[09:46] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... Had fun matching up the time-stamps on my holiday photos... three or four different cameras, each variously wrong and in different timezones. ;)
[09:46] <Babs_> the path for the first half hour or so basically traced a circle around the airfield with the airfield as its centre. It stays in frame for ages.
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[09:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> Exiftool is brilliant for correcting batches with timestamps screwed up!
[09:47] <Babs_> LazyLeopard. It's on extra thing to add to my checklist.
[09:47] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[09:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> Take a photo of a watch just before launch!
[09:48] <Babs_> Thanks Geoff-G8DHE. By luck rather than design the tracker outputs every 12 secs, the photo is taken every 6 secs, which means a quick fill down in excel alongside the flight log enables me to quickly pick out where a photo was taken in space
[09:49] <Babs_> presumably some of the new cameras which gps log everything would do that automatically. would be interesting to see at what alt they cut out.
[09:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah thats handy!
[09:49] <kmccoy> When I'm going out photographing, I always take a photo of my phone's GPS info screen to ensure that I can easily line up for geotagging even if my camera's clock has drifted since I last connected to my computer.
[09:49] <Babs_> it appears my brand of science is 50% design 50% luck.
[09:50] <Babs_> well, it worked for Alexander Fleming anyway
[09:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> I have quite a nice one it does full atitude as well as time/lat/long use it for doing the high res pano's, that way I know where the camera points as well as when and where!
[09:50] <Babs_> excellent
[09:50] <kmccoy> Geoff-G8DHE, which one?
[09:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> Trouble is not much software can use the tilt and roll!
[09:51] <kmccoy> I use geosetter, and it can take the directional info, but I don't have the gear to take advantage of it yet.
[09:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> Solemeta Geotagger Pro 2 http://tinyurl.com/ony9kf4 and http://360.g8dhe.net/cameraattitude/cameraattitude.htm
[09:53] <kmccoy> Awesome, thank you!
[09:53] <Babs_> "When you go indoor or to a place where GPS signal got blocked, Pro 2 device will automatically reuse the last known position for tagging the subsequent images, we call this function "In Door Lock"."
[09:54] <Babs_> Truly an attempt at a Steve Jobs reality distortion field
[09:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes I use geotagger for adding extra data as well along with ExifTool when neccesary, Friedmann does have it on his list to add but isn't doing many changes to the software at present so have towait :-(
[09:54] <Babs_> "When it doesn't work we will use last known position but give it a cool name"
[09:54] <Babs_> nice bit of kit though
[09:56] <kmccoy> I messed with Friedman's stuff, but I really like geosetter, so my workflow is camera - geosetter to sync with my gps logger - lightroom.
[09:56] <eroomde> haha that's hilarious
[09:56] <eroomde> and truly, truly terrible
[09:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> My current desire is a faster up date time from it, its OK when on a Tripod or Monopod, but it would be nice to have full atitude when hand held but for that you really need 10 samples per second!
[09:56] <eroomde> someone should spend a night in a cell for that kind of marketing
[09:57] <HixWork> If you have a Canon or Nikon SLR you can interface the raw output from a uBlox straight into the camera. I am in the process of doing a board for my D2X
[09:58] <HixWork> this will ensure that images are automatically geotagged in the Exif
[09:59] <HixWork> and in response to Geoff-G8DHE if you use the 10Hz uBLoxs job's a good'un
[10:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes but its the atitude data I want so that I know where the camera points, EXIF2 doesn't allow for it so the cameras don't store it, they only pick out the time/lat/long to add, hence my page to get ExifTool to add the data!
[10:01] <Babs_> Hixwork - why do you need to do that when you can 1. spend a half hour plotting your location trace on google earth 2. Lining up two points in a photo that are vertically above each other and then 3. Using a ruler held against your monitor to line up the equivalent points in google earth and see which location point that lines goes through to work out where the photo is taken
[10:02] <Babs_> (Copyright) Babs methodology
[10:02] <HixWork> shit - good point. I'll not bother then :p
[10:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> Could store it to a log file of course, but I suspect that it might be possible with the Geotagger if they allowed for it, bt not much need ;-)
[10:02] <Babs_> arf
[10:03] <Babs_> you guys are too smart for your own good. I might dispense with a Ublox next time and just send up a sextant.
[10:03] <Babs_> Plus a canary in a cage with a stop watch around its neck to work out when the air runs out
[10:03] <fsphil> makes sense Babs_
[10:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> Couple of servo's to adjust it
[10:03] <eroomde> some ceramic capacitors are piezoelectric
[10:04] <eroomde> i.e. if you bash them you'll get a voltage spike across them
[10:04] <Babs_> retro habbing fsphil.
[10:04] <eroomde> isn't that jolly annoying
[10:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> Try using cheap Microphone cable for that!
[10:04] <fsphil> Babs_: a C64 HAB is on my todo list
[10:05] <Babs_> It would be awesome to transmit the sound of a tape deck loading a program rather than rtty fsphil
[10:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: respect!
[10:05] <gonzo_> also you can sometimes hear them sing in low frew smpsu's
[10:05] <gonzo_> freq
[10:06] <eroomde> there's a name of that
[10:06] <eroomde> i forget what
[10:06] <fsphil> the tape output could totally do rtty
[10:06] <Babs_> with fl-digi modified to decode what game is being loaded up rather than the gps location. "I'm receiving a signal of Daley Thompson's Decathlon in Poland"
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> :)
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: I have a zx81 I was looking at
[10:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> lol
[10:07] <Babs_> "no, wait, that was an incomplete decode. It's actually Jet Set Willy"
[10:07] <fsphil> oooh now that'd be cool
[10:07] <daveake> $$CAN'T CONTINUE
[10:08] <HixWork> Babs, you're gonna need some string and definitely some pulleys, don't forget some nice polished brasswork too
[10:08] <fsphil> $$SYNTAX ERROR
[10:08] <daveake> $$FORMULA TOO COMPLEX
[10:09] <Babs_> HIxwork - I am rejecting any hardware for my new product unless it was made on a lathe or a spinning jenny
[10:09] <Babs_> product? project
[10:09] <HixWork> really?
[10:09] <fsphil> wouldn't jenny get dizzy?
[10:09] <HixWork> what about drop forgings?
[10:09] <HixWork> or castings for that matter
[10:10] <Babs_> I looked at buying a forging business once. Proper industry is cool.
[10:10] <HixWork> HMRC are clamping down of forging
[10:10] <eroomde> they've given us R&D tax releif instead
[10:10] <daveake> they're brassed off
[10:10] <Babs_> oh god its started
[10:11] <HixWork> I wish you had, I've got loads of stuff I'd like to forge
[10:11] <Babs_> HMRC are always giving forging businesses a rub down.
[10:11] <fsphil> steeling is bad HixWork
[10:11] <HixWork> crankshafts, conrods
[10:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> Just like this http://tinyurl.com/nu33zvk
[10:11] <HixWork> wishbones
[10:12] <Babs_> Forging industry fact of the day: Your insurance doesn't pay out if stuff is lifted out of your yard by a crane sitting outside the walls, but it does if someone breaks into your yard through the gate and drives off with it.
[10:13] <fsphil> interesting
[10:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> $$ R Tape loading error
[10:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> if ZX Spectrum was used ;-)
[10:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> anyway, first ARHABS if i recall correctly was flying with Z80 onboard
[10:14] <Babs_> fsphil - I think it reflects the fact that if you are in the metal industry, most of the insurance claims result from business owners nicking their own stuff and claiming on insurance, which they are more wont to do if they can steal their stuff without bashing locks in that need replacing
[10:15] <eroomde> one of the amusing side effects of doing more work with analogue electronics is that ossaccionally when googling you come across audiophile forums
[10:16] <fsphil> amusing.. or depressing?
[10:16] <eroomde> and if there's ever been a better exposition of the phrase 'a little knowledge is dangerous', then I've yet to find it
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[10:17] <fsphil> You have to browse those sites on a CRT monitor to really appreciate them
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[10:17] <eroomde> which ceramic capacitor dialectric sound more '3D'
[10:18] <eroomde> really furious deates
[10:18] <eroomde> debates*
[10:18] <daveake> http://www.audio-consulting.ch/?Parts:Woodlenses
[10:18] <daveake> I was trying to find the wooden volume knob for $1000
[10:19] <eroomde> or spending $10k on a rhubidium 10MHz clock for all their gear, as if the human ear is within even 9 orders of magnitude sensitive enough to detect the phase jitter improvement between than an a quartz crystal
[10:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> " The wood used is a very slow growing and extremely hard precious wood growing in Switzerland" Ah yes well known for its clocks as well
[10:20] <daveake> That's cheap. Speaker cable at $7000/m
[10:20] <eroomde> I'm not sure whether i should shoot these people or try and sell them things
[10:20] <eroomde> it could make me very rich
[10:20] <HixWork> if you paid that for it it would be bloody precious
[10:20] <daveake> sell
[10:21] <HixWork> sell then shoot
[10:21] <HixWork> babs can advise on the insurance implications of that i reckon
[10:22] <mfa298> when I come accross audio people like that I tend to point them at "The Sound of Reproduction" by Flanders and Swann.
[10:34] <griffonbot> @g4fui: RT @daveake: Pi In The Sky 6 written up at El Reg http://t.co/UbB8SBhJZT #raspberry_pi #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/g4fui/status/340053710946320384]
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[10:41] <ibanezmatt13> ping UpuWork
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[10:44] <HixWork> heh found one http://i.imgur.com/EUdtJkF.png
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[11:01] <eroomde> you might find eagle easier than catia for pcb design :p
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[11:16] <HixWork> easier to model the outline for the board in Catia then export as dxf ;p
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[11:21] <cuddykid> ping UpuWork
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[11:50] <UpuWork> hi cuddykid
[11:50] <UpuWork> hi mattbrejza
[11:50] <UpuWork> doh
[11:51] <mattbrejza> :/
[11:52] <UpuWork> sorry missed the tab complete
[11:52] <fsphil> multiping
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[12:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> bye all
[12:21] SP9UOB-Tom (~verox@matrix.verox.pl) left irc: Quit: sleeep! :-)
[12:21] <morteh> sup dudes
[12:22] <fsphil> mostly blue sky atm
[12:22] <morteh> good launch weather?
[12:22] <fsphil> it is actually
[12:23] <fsphil> very little wind
[12:23] <morteh> is there somewhere in the uk that do balloon kits that you can just create your own payload for?
[12:25] <fsphil> hab supplies have the basic bits, some soldering and programming required
[12:25] <mattbrejza> well other than the payload there isnt that much you need
[12:26] <morteh> well you must need a special balloon / mounting type thing
[12:26] <mattbrejza> yea its all bought seperately
[12:26] <morteh> http://distilleryimage4.s3.amazonaws.com/c37cc214bc2011e2a15422000a9f19a4_7.jpg
[12:26] <morteh> heres my control module
[12:27] <mattbrejza> the 'kit' of stuff is a balloon, parachute, length of string and some gaffa tape + cable ties
[12:27] <mattbrejza> then a pvc pipe + hose + gaffa tape to fill the balloon
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[12:28] <morteh> sounds good
[12:28] <mattbrejza> ah, nice to see something that isnt an ardunio
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[12:29] <morteh> how does the parachute deploy?
[12:29] <morteh> wish i was brave enough to borrow my friends gopro ;/
[12:29] <mattbrejza> its already 'deployed' the way its tied between the string and the balloon
[12:29] <Laurenceb> http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/7/2/4/175724.jpg?v=1
[12:30] <mattbrejza> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning seen?
[12:30] <morteh> ooh, will give that a read
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> morteh: Get accidental damage insurance.
[12:31] <LazyLeopard> fsphil: Ah, you must be in another part of the world. ;) Here it's grey, windy and wet...
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> morteh: 'I accidentally dropped it from 100000feet
[12:31] <morteh> lol, you got a new one?
[12:31] <mattbrejza> you can get cheap cameras for about £30, oc not quite as good as a gopro
[12:31] <morteh> yeah, you want the best qualitay obviously
[12:32] <morteh> anyone ever done a pinhole camera?
[12:32] <mattbrejza> well some are alright
[12:32] <Laurenceb> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/171517448/in/set-72157594182476393/
[12:32] <Laurenceb> heh that takes me back
[12:32] <mattbrejza> could just have a decent stills camera instead
[12:32] <Laurenceb> 2006 pegasus
[12:32] <chris_99> i just got an RPi camera, i'm suprised by how good it is
[12:33] <morteh> yeah, was just going to say that, qualitay ive seen from that looks good
[12:33] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[12:33] <morteh> it expensive?
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> i wish that the CSI interface was open
[12:33] <fsphil> LazyLeopard: yea it's odd, we've had three days of sunshine in a row
[12:33] <morteh> 17quid no bad
[12:33] <morteh> SpeedEvil: can you only use it with the pi? ;/
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> Err - no
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> I mean that there are eighteen billion CSI cameras out there - including some silly ones - 42MP
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> It would be nice to be able to use more than the sole camera picked
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[12:35] <daveake> SpeedEvil and 18 million different versions of CSI AIUI
[12:35] <daveake> The RPi camera guy was complaining that CSI doesn't really define that much and that every camera is different
[12:35] <SpeedEvil> Sure - it's more of a general bus
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> Which is why a nice datasheet for the CSI interface and let us get on with it would be nice
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[12:37] <daveake> They are working on a V4L2 driver
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[12:37] <daveake> then we don't have to use their apps
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[12:42] <morteh> so could you use a rpi camera with an arduino?
[12:42] <mattbrejza> no
[12:43] <mattbrejza> (well perhaps but you wouldnt want to)
[12:43] <morteh> why not?
[12:44] <lz1dev> for the sake of your sanity
[12:44] <mattbrejza> you would have to write your own driver
[12:44] <mattbrejza> make up a parallel differential interface
[12:44] <lz1dev> is timing important ?
[12:44] <Randomskk> you couldn't
[12:44] <Randomskk> too much data
[12:44] <morteh> i wanted to send up my tiny real time thing
[12:44] <Randomskk> don't even think about it
[12:45] <morteh> i got a sd slot & 16g card
[12:45] <Laurenceb> you can interface with stm32
[12:45] <mattbrejza> well i was wondering if you could get single photos off it very slowly
[12:45] <Laurenceb> - F4
[12:45] <Randomskk> stm32 could maybe manage
[12:45] <Randomskk> I've done webcams with 8bit busses on an stm32f3
[12:45] <Randomskk> f103*
[12:45] <Randomskk> don't recommend
[12:45] <Laurenceb> but thats a bit mad
[12:45] <Randomskk> huge faff. f4 with camera interface built in would be better
[12:45] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:45] <morteh> i thought theyd of made it some easy to use SPI type thing
[12:46] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: but i wonder if you could DMA from a gpio
[12:46] <Randomskk> you can but...
[12:46] <Randomskk> not well enough
[12:46] <Laurenceb> using clk into a timer and using timer to drive the dma
[12:46] <Laurenceb> i see
[12:46] <Randomskk> hmm
[12:46] <Randomskk> actually I wonder if you could do it on an interrupt
[12:47] <Randomskk> if the camera vsync line went to a pc interrupt
[12:47] <Randomskk> you could trigger the gpio port dma on that
[12:47] <Randomskk> and another on hysnc to say when it was done
[12:47] <Laurenceb> yeah, fewer clks that way
[12:47] <Laurenceb> but you can trigger timers off an input
[12:47] <Laurenceb> probably easier
[12:48] <Laurenceb> or just use F4....
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[12:48] <Randomskk> indeed just use f4
[12:48] <daveake> Perhaps use a Pi? |Bit left field I know ... :)
[12:49] <Laurenceb> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/image-sensors/7141492/
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> Carambola!
[12:50] <Laurenceb> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/image-sensors/7141436/
[12:52] <Laurenceb> in fact, even http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/image-sensors/7141549/
[12:52] <Laurenceb> would talk to F4
[12:52] <Laurenceb> tricky to solder all of those
[12:55] <Laurenceb> http://uk.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/stm32f4dis-cam/module-stm32f4-1-3mp-camera/dp/2250206
[12:56] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> I've got an old design that used a SDRAM and a stm32 - one of the earlier ones
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> Setup the camera for a line, setup the SDRAM to burst mode, on the right page, and then just clock the pair of them enough times to read out a line directly into the sdram
[12:57] <morteh> what kind of interface does that use
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> Was quite neat - but never got it built.
[12:58] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqLPuvvxqA8
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[13:00] <ibanezmatt13> In the past hour, my Watson magmount antenna and my switching voltage regulator from Honk Kong has arrived. I've got both of them working. All I need to do now is get dl-fldigi working :)
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[13:00] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: :)
[13:00] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[13:00] <morteh> sounds like rpi camera is easiest way to go
[13:01] <ibanezmatt13> Just waiting for GPS and NTX2. Looks like I'll have that tomorrow
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> morteh: Or carambola and USB camera
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> (memory is an issue though)
[13:02] <morteh> whats carambola?
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> http://shop.8devices.com/carambola
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> 70mA or so idle@5v
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[13:03] <ibanezmatt13> Does the NTX2 require an antenna?
[13:03] <fsphil> yes, except at very short range
[13:03] <fsphil> it'll work fine in the same room without one
[13:03] <ibanezmatt13> does it come with an antenna or must I get that separately
[13:04] <daveake> Solder one up
[13:04] <fsphil> nope it's just a module
[13:04] <fsphil> but you can make one
[13:04] <morteh> what is the carambola for? to handle communication with the webcam?
[13:04] <fsphil> nobody buys a 70cm antenna for an ntx2 :)
[13:04] <ibanezmatt13> make one?
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: First - you will need a shrubbery!
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> morteh: No - I mean to do everything.
[13:04] <daveake> For regular payloads I use some RG174 coax and some single core wire
[13:04] <morteh> ah
[13:05] <ibanezmatt13> what does it look like when it's attached to the NTX2?
[13:06] <daveake> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mF2Kyo6-8GU/ULPJNIxeexI/AAAAAAAAA7I/IWLYiqOTld0/s1600/IMG_1638.JPG
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[13:06] <ibanezmatt13> thanks daveake
[13:06] <daveake> Other end solders to the 3 radio pins on the ntx2
[13:06] <daveake> (centre wire to the centre pin; shield to the outer pins)
[13:06] <UpuWork> still floating round the Post Office Delivery system ibanezmatt13 sorry
[13:07] <ibanezmatt13> it's ok. I wonder what's taking them so long
[13:07] <daveake> And generally the radials get stuck to the outside of the payload box
[13:07] <daveake> like http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-R5zyNoIaHU4/UWrc2n6P6zI/AAAAAAAABTk/xsqZ0TyUdeU/s1600/IMG_2021.JPG
[13:07] <ibanezmatt13> where do the four outer wires go?
[13:08] <daveake> see pic
[13:08] <daveake> they all solder to the shield in the wire
[13:08] <daveake> and like I said, the other end solders to the 2 gnd pins on the ntx2
[13:09] <morteh> what do you use the ntx2 for? gps tracking?
[13:10] <daveake> radio transmitter
[13:10] <daveake> generally, telemetry encoded using rtty
[13:10] <morteh> says usable range over 500m, do the balloons not go higher than that?
[13:11] <daveake> 500m on the ground
[13:11] <ibanezmatt13> I think I'm looking at this a little wrong. There are 4 wires there. Two of them go to the RF ground pins on the NTX2? The other two?
[13:11] <daveake> wrong end - it's the 3 pins at the other end
[13:11] <daveake> oh wait
[13:11] <daveake> 4 radials all solder together, and to the braid
[13:11] <ibanezmatt13> So the whole thing is interlinked
[13:12] <daveake> at the ntx2 end the braid goes to the 2 gnd pins either side of the tx pin
[13:12] <daveake> morteh Record is comfortable over 800km .. LOS you see
[13:12] <ibanezmatt13> so the braid splits?
[13:13] <morteh> nice, i might buy one to play with
[13:14] <daveake> If there's enough braid to play with, split it. On thinner coax there isn't, so just solder on some regular wire
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[13:14] <daveake> he split it
[13:14] <fsphil> rage quit
[13:14] <daveake> afraid of braid
[13:14] <fsphil> right to the core
[13:15] <daveake> We'll coax him back
[13:15] <fsphil> Wire we talking about this?
[13:15] <UpuWork> I'm braid of this ?
[13:15] <morteh> ;F
[13:16] <daveake> I'll get my jacket
[13:16] <UpuWork> ohm my god are we making puns again
[13:16] <fsphil> thankfully there are amp-le
[13:16] <UpuWork> attenuate the conversation ?
[13:17] <daveake> on reflection, yes
[13:17] <fsphil> a sine of the times
[13:21] Action: daveake waves
[13:21] <fsphil> that resonates with me
[13:23] <Phil_M0DNY> and wins a standing wave from me
[13:23] Nick change: Phil_M0DNY -> craag
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[13:35] <gonzo_> did that pun threag get correctly terminated?
[13:36] <Randomskk> we stubbed it out
[13:36] <fsphil> it took the high pass, we took the low
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[13:37] <Randomskk> sadly not before everyone had jumped on the band wagon
[13:37] <gonzo_> at least I'm in tune with the conversation
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[13:48] <eroomde> i missed it
[13:48] <eroomde> how are you Randomskk?
[13:48] <Randomskk> rested
[13:49] <Randomskk> slept better than I have in months
[13:49] <eroomde> can imagine
[13:49] <eroomde> all done now
[13:49] <Randomskk> reading grace at formal this evening, then going home friday evening for a day for my/my mother's birthday
[13:49] <Randomskk> meanwhile toying with mcmc methods for this decoder thing
[13:49] <Randomskk> yup
[13:49] <Randomskk> well
[13:49] <Randomskk> presentation on wednesday
[13:49] <eroomde> and thinking how you should apply that creative energy to something you actually really enjoy
[13:49] <Randomskk> but that can wait til after the weekend at least
[13:50] <Randomskk> pymc3 is in alpha and looks really neat
[13:50] <Randomskk> thinking maybe you could do a graphical model of the entire system, so the state estimation ends up inline
[13:50] <eroomde> http://uk.farnell.com/nxp/lpc811m001fdh16fp/mcu-32bit-cortex-m0-30mhz-16tssop/dp/2320693?Ntt=LPC811M001FDH16FP
[13:50] <Randomskk> kalman filter's just a special case of a graphical model right?
[13:50] <eroomde> yes
[13:50] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/model.png
[13:51] <eroomde> quite a simple graphical model with linear dynamics and gaussian messages and no cyclic bits
[13:51] <Randomskk> exactly
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[13:51] <Randomskk> so shove that at the start to give a density for the balloon state
[13:51] <Randomskk> plus some other less nice things for the time and sentence id
[13:51] <eroomde> There's a think called Loopy Beleif Propagation
[13:51] <eroomde> which is basically kalman filters for cyclic graphs
[13:51] <eroomde> i love the name
[13:51] <Randomskk> then somehow transform that into a bitstream probability, which is a bit hard perhaps
[13:51] <Randomskk> going from a probability distribution over a real number to a probability distribution over bits for its ascii representation seems weird
[13:52] <Randomskk> but meh. it must be doable
[13:52] <Randomskk> in theory you can just sample the real number, convert it into bits, repeat many times, take the frequencies of the bits
[13:53] <Randomskk> pymc3 now supports Theano which looks _very_ neat
[13:53] <Randomskk> including automatic GPU use
[13:54] <Randomskk> so work out the whole model, probably write some custom functions for the hard parts, then give it all to pymc3. we observe the received radio signal and we want the bitstream
[13:54] <Randomskk> not sure if it could really work in real time though
[13:55] <Laurenceb> if the state is too large...
[13:55] <Laurenceb> as in too many dimensions
[13:55] <Randomskk> the whole thing would be ridiculously many dimensional
[13:55] <Laurenceb> then it might not converge
[13:55] <Randomskk> almost all those boxes are a dimension
[13:55] <Laurenceb> yeah
[13:55] <Randomskk> yea
[13:55] <Randomskk> but at the same time
[13:55] <Randomskk> we can put decent priors on like, all of them
[13:55] <Laurenceb> particle filter...
[13:55] <Randomskk> and most are fairly bounded
[13:56] <Randomskk> so it could work
[13:56] <Laurenceb> each instance will be fairly low recourse
[13:57] <eroomde> hmm, so a letter or number is going to be turned into some length of bits
[13:57] <eroomde> and each of those bits has a probability that is itself some distribution
[13:58] <Randomskk> that said I guess it's just a single probability per bit, isn't it
[13:58] <eroomde> but the bits dpeneds on the other bits
[13:58] <Randomskk> that's true
[13:59] <eroomde> it's sort of analogous to a dirichlet distribution
[13:59] <eroomde> but i'm in flaky territory here, memory-wise
[13:59] <Randomskk> mm
[13:59] <eroomde> but as i recall dirichlet is basically a multivariate distribution whose dimensions are themselves probability distributions
[14:00] <Laurenceb> eeek
[14:01] Nick change: craag -> Phil_M0DNY
[14:01] <Randomskk> are you thinking of a dirichlet process?
[14:01] <eroomde> possibly
[14:01] <Randomskk> the dirichlet distr is a multivariate beta basically
[14:01] <eroomde> i just went to get my copy of mackay from the lab
[14:03] <eroomde> as i recall it in the context of arithmetic codes with baseband codes
[14:03] <eroomde> so the overall next term in the message has some prior likelihood but also each bit in the stream has some likelihood
[14:04] <eroomde> i need to go back through mackay i guess. this kind of hand wavy recollection is of not much value
[14:04] <Randomskk> I can imagine arithmetic coding stuff might be relevant
[14:04] <Laurenceb> if you want small arm http://www.st.com/web/catalog/mmc/FM141/SC1169/SS1574/LN1447/PF254169
[14:04] <Laurenceb> should be avaliable soon
[14:04] <eroomde> i'm just amazed at the price of that one
[14:04] <eroomde> if only gps's weren't so expensive
[14:04] <eroomde> you could do £5 trackers
[14:05] <eroomde> a pico swarm
[14:05] <eroomde> i suspect there are non-gps ways of getting good enough position back anyway
[14:05] <Laurenceb> we need ground station correlators
[14:05] <eroomde> like that
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[14:05] <Randomskk> that would be cool
[14:05] <eroomde> yeah i guess you could actually build a usb accessory
[14:05] <Randomskk> shame the tv sdr dongles are so poor
[14:06] Nick change: wibble -> Guest65554
[14:06] <Randomskk> wonder if you could get around it with enough of them
[14:06] <eroomde> that itself used gps time to stamp the output of a correlator looking at a spread message that we send
[14:06] <Laurenceb> cc1020 ftw
[14:06] <eroomde> and then habhub gets the timestamped pings and works out the pseudoranges
[14:06] <eroomde> et voila
[14:06] <Laurenceb> need a way to generate spread cheaply on the balloon :S
[14:06] <eroomde> an io pin?
[14:06] <Laurenceb> hmm
[14:06] <Laurenceb> i guess tons of bandwidth isnt needed
[14:06] <eroomde> and some very cheap source of carrier
[14:07] <Laurenceb> actually
[14:07] <eroomde> bpsk is easier too
[14:07] <Laurenceb> you could just use silabs
[14:07] <eroomde> the BOM cost of an ntx2 can't be more than a fiver really
[14:07] <Laurenceb> and high rate nonsense
[14:07] <Laurenceb> like 256Kbps
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> Well, you have a GPS there.
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> All we need is a way to get precise time out of it, and spreading gets easy
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> oh - /me should read backscroll
[14:10] <eroomde> :)
[14:10] <eroomde> can send anything really
[14:11] <eroomde> so long as the receivers have a coherent clock
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[14:11] <eroomde> but yeah, speudorandom noise as fast as the engineering allows would be best
[14:11] <eroomde> that's like pseudorandom noise but with more vomit
[14:11] <Randomskk> haha
[14:11] <SpeedEvil> Some legislation states things like maximum reception distances.
[14:12] <SpeedEvil> I noted that this is _way_ more than you might expect for a tiny FM reciever playing a CD of Christina Aguilera.
[14:12] <eroomde> oh blah
[14:12] <eroomde> they'll never find us
[14:12] <eroomde> if we just pick a random chip rate like 1.25739MHz
[14:12] <SpeedEvil> As you can't only do direct reception - but the whole CD (modulo wow and jitter) is a spreading code
[14:15] <Laurenceb> ok really simple way
[14:15] <eroomde> you could do this with dongles
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[14:15] <Laurenceb> si4432/whatever
[14:15] <eroomde> i mean the ezcap dongles
[14:15] <eroomde> if you could allow a custom front end
[14:15] <Laurenceb> then send a second or so of nonsense at ~256kbps
[14:15] <eroomde> which would be pretty trivial
[14:15] <Laurenceb> record it
[14:15] <Laurenceb> correlate
[14:15] <Laurenceb> job done
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[14:15] <eroomde> yes but the receivers all need a coherent clock
[14:16] <Laurenceb> didn't DarkSide solve that issue?
[14:16] <eroomde> where? who?
[14:16] <eroomde> i missed this
[14:16] <Laurenceb> habamp
[14:16] <Laurenceb> with a glitcher
[14:16] <Laurenceb> based off 1pps
[14:16] <Laurenceb> gives a broadband pulse
[14:16] <eroomde> whose 1pps
[14:16] <Laurenceb> or something
[14:17] <Laurenceb> from a local gps
[14:17] <eroomde> well anyway, you could do it with a slight mod to a hab amp
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: They don't need a coherent clock - if you track the clock
[14:17] <eroomde> i mean as far as i can see a habamp is just a saw and lna unless i'm missing something
[14:17] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: i think they do
[14:17] <Laurenceb> yeah it is
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: just a jitter and wow free clock
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> and the same on the top
[14:17] <eroomde> i'm almost 100% sure the receivers need a coherent clock
[14:17] <Laurenceb> iirc DarkSide did a mod
[14:18] <gonzo_> similar was done years ago to triangulate HF chirp tx stations (think it was initially done from WWV)
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: What do you mean by coherent?
[14:18] <eroomde> all the receivers need to know the same time
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: If you mean 'in synchrony with the transmitter' - no
[14:18] <eroomde> no i don't
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> GPS recievers don't have that
[14:18] <eroomde> i mean coherent
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> You mean multi-site reception?
[14:18] <Laurenceb> arggggg
[14:18] <eroomde> no, i mean what i say
[14:18] <eroomde> i have no idea what you mean
[14:19] <eroomde> but that's by the by
[14:19] Action: Laurenceb facepalm
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: I have no idea what you mean. :)
[14:19] <eroomde> all the receivers need to be able to say 'i received the ping at this time'
[14:19] <eroomde> and 'this time' has to be based on the same time for all of them
[14:19] <Laurenceb> there is another way....
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> Sure - which doesn't mean that the recievers clocks run at teh same rate.
[14:20] <eroomde> now i'm not mega sure that 1pps is up to this
[14:20] <SpeedEvil> It means that the variance is detectable.
[14:20] <Laurenceb> self contained GPS module based 434mhz beacon
[14:20] <Laurenceb> for local use
[14:20] <SpeedEvil> And PLL and similar goodness can work.
[14:20] <Laurenceb> at each receiver
[14:20] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Or there is another way
[14:20] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Fly one payload outputting a signal at xkhz - with a GPS
[14:20] <eroomde> i think a pll would be a bit noisy with only 1pps input for the kind of accuracy needed
[14:20] <SpeedEvil> Fly another at x+1khz - with just a beacon
[14:21] <SpeedEvil> You can then do the very simple maths
[14:21] <Laurenceb> yeah but then you need 2 balloons
[14:21] <Randomskk> eroomde: what kind of accuracy would you be aiming for?
[14:21] <Laurenceb> very pointless
[14:21] <eroomde> anyway, i'm going to ignore the stream of noise and just state what i think would work which is what i've been trying to do for 5 minutes
[14:21] <Laurenceb> lolz
[14:21] <eroomde> have a dual freq bandpass on the front of the ezcap dongle
[14:21] <eroomde> one set for L1, the other for whatever the balloon frequencies are
[14:22] <eroomde> decode both the actual gps and the balloon stuff in software
[14:22] <Laurenceb> wtf
[14:22] <eroomde> that way you can corrlate super precisely with gps because you're sampling gps and the balloon signal with the same clock
[14:22] <Laurenceb> you'd need two local oscillators?!
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: You mean sample at 2.8ghz or whatever?
[14:22] <eroomde> no you wouldn't
[14:22] <Randomskk> just swap between them
[14:22] <eroomde> 1.5GHz
[14:22] <eroomde> not that even
[14:22] <eroomde> just undersample
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[14:22] <Laurenceb> hmmm
[14:23] <eroomde> if your inputs are bandpass filtered you can just undersample and pick an LO such that each frequency modulo the L.O. doesn't collide
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> Doesn't sound insane.
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> If the LO is low noise enough
[14:23] <Laurenceb> you know there is a hardcore analogue filter in there
[14:23] <eroomde> it's 2 saw filters
[14:23] <Laurenceb> after the mixer
[14:23] <Laurenceb> very strong cutoff
[14:24] <Laurenceb> id still go with DarkSide's approach
[14:24] <eroomde> sure, but you usually have that in the IF anywa. the both just have to fit in the same 10-20MHz (or whatever the bandiwidth of the samplers is)
[14:24] <eroomde> you won't have other images inside that range provided the SAWs have done their job
[14:26] <SpeedEvil> I wonder how much atmospherics exist at high atlitude at 433
[14:26] <SpeedEvil> And if you can use them to sync
[14:26] <SpeedEvil> (to leave GPS for a moment)
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> That is - how much are emitted at high altitude and can be received by a plurality of recievers
[14:28] <Laurenceb> not a lot
[14:28] <Laurenceb> also itd be emitted from different directions
[14:28] <SpeedEvil> It would be interesting to measure
[14:28] <Laurenceb> eroomde: lots of listeners are using ham setups
[14:28] <Randomskk> sure but ezcap dongles are like £10
[14:28] <Laurenceb> yeah
[14:29] <Randomskk> just say "well it requires an sdr"
[14:29] <eroomde> Laurenceb: what is your point?
[14:29] <eroomde> you can't do anything like this with ham setups
[14:29] <Laurenceb> i was going to say habmap mod was easier
[14:29] <Laurenceb> hmm
[14:29] <Laurenceb> yeah actually
[14:29] <Laurenceb> you need lots of bandwidth
[14:29] <eroomde> you could do ranging tones with ham setups i guess
[14:29] <Laurenceb> less accurate
[14:29] <Randomskk> but why bother, when an sdr gets you high bandwidth and the ability to do gps at the same time?
[14:29] <eroomde> modulate a tirnagle wave on fm and send it out and receive it and ompare the phase
[14:30] <Laurenceb> if you want +-1km or so tho...
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> Carrier tracking a beacon would work OK it seems to me as long as you';ve got several receirvers
[14:30] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: remians to be seen if it can do gps at the same time
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[14:31] <SpeedEvil> (GPS or otherwise locked)
[14:31] <eroomde> it can if you can play with the tuning
[14:31] <eroomde> what can they tune up to?
[14:31] <Laurenceb> 2GHz or something
[14:32] <ibanezmatt13> Anybody know how to stick this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-LM2596-DC-Buck-Step-Down-Voltage-Adjustable-Converter-Power-Module-Regulator-/150841422837?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item231ed973f5 to this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/One-Heatsink-Aluminum-Heat-Sink-for-LM2596-2577-2587-/300652492466?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item460048f6b2
[14:32] <ibanezmatt13> I believe you need some sort of thermal conductivity paste
[14:32] <ibanezmatt13> But where do I get this from?
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> Or a thermal interface pad
[14:33] <ibanezmatt13> Where can those be found? In a shop or on Ebay?
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[14:34] <eroomde> i'm sure the gps + balloon thing would be possible if their signal strngths fall within the dynamic range of the receiver
[14:35] <Laurenceb> there is another option
[14:36] <Laurenceb> balloon rebroadcasts something
[14:36] <Laurenceb> like dcf77
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> Maybe even GPS
[14:36] <eroomde> yeah indeed
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> Mixer to go from GPS to 433
[14:37] <eroomde> but harder for BOM<£5
[14:37] <SpeedEvil> You'd only have a slice of the GPS spectrum
[14:37] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[14:38] <SpeedEvil> I suppose it gets a little trickier if you're not willing to spatter crap everywhere :)
[14:39] <eroomde> i guess you low pass
[14:39] <eroomde> but just one transister would do it
[14:39] <eroomde> balanced unity amplifier
[14:40] <eroomde> switch between the collector output and the emiter output
[14:40] <eroomde> insta-bpsk
[14:40] <eroomde> well you have to do the sietching i guess
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[14:40] <eroomde> switching*
[14:40] <eroomde> and you need some source of sinewave
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> Oh - right
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[14:41] <SpeedEvil> I was thinking of something with actual ICs. :)
[14:41] <eroomde> think of the BOM :)
[14:41] <Laurenceb> silabs is cheapish
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[14:42] <Randomskk> might be nice to have a 434MHz carrier transmitted too, for foxhunting
[14:42] <eroomde> individual transistors are cheap
[14:42] <Laurenceb> too hardcore
[14:43] <SpeedEvil> I was thinking of the $2.50 analog devices mixer
[14:43] <eroomde> transistors are not hardcore
[14:43] <Laurenceb> a 434mhz discrete transistor tx is
[14:43] <eroomde> the most surprising thing about learning rf electronics properly is that the active stuff is really not that complicated
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[14:43] <eroomde> no it isn't
[14:44] <eroomde> you are just not familiar with it
[14:44] <Laurenceb> heh
[14:44] <eroomde> there's a difference
[14:44] <Randomskk> the ntx2 manages just fine with a handful of transistors
[14:44] <Laurenceb> and custom xtals
[14:44] <Laurenceb> those aren't cheap
[14:44] <eroomde> yes but the have VCXOs
[14:44] <eroomde> we don;t need that bollocks for bpsk
[14:45] <Laurenceb> id imagine dcf-77 rx would be easy
[14:45] <eroomde> just a way of toggling the phase 180 degrees
[14:45] <eroomde> which is one transistor
[14:45] <eroomde> and 2 resistors
[14:45] <Laurenceb> how do you get to 434mhz?
[14:46] <eroomde> exercise for the reader
[14:46] <Laurenceb> lol
[14:47] <eroomde> xtal and PLL tho, would be my hunch
[14:47] <eroomde> the centre frequency is not that important
[14:47] <SpeedEvil> Saw oscillator?
[14:47] <eroomde> we can search for it and track it in software
[14:47] <eroomde> or that
[14:48] <Randomskk> the chip on joey takes a standard enough crystal and outputs 434mhz
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[14:48] <Randomskk> 8pin soic thing
[14:48] <Randomskk> it's just like an x13 pll or something
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[14:49] <eroomde> that'd do it
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[14:49] <eroomde> then one bipolar transistor can produce a positive and negative image of the input going to its base
[14:49] <Randomskk> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/96892.pdf
[14:49] <Randomskk> wonder if they do one with built in bpsk instead of ask
[14:50] <Randomskk> no, apparently not. shame
[14:52] <Laurenceb> ask still correlates
[14:52] <Randomskk> it does fsk too
[14:52] <Randomskk> hmm
[14:52] <Randomskk> you could even forego a microcontroller, use a lfsr as the prng
[14:53] <Randomskk> I mean, an attiny8 would be cheaper and smaller and allow a longer lfsr, but it'd be entertaining
[14:53] <Randomskk> probably want something with a longer period though
[14:53] <eroomde> sure, tho you can send data with a micro
[14:53] <Randomskk> true
[14:54] <Randomskk> what data would you want to send though?
[14:54] <eroomde> you can xor your LF data with the HF pin toggling that drives the bpsk switching circuit
[14:54] <Randomskk> (and how would you superimpose it? do something like gps?)
[14:54] <eroomde> exactly, for the latter
[14:54] <Randomskk> makes sense
[14:54] <eroomde> you might want to send temp or baro alt
[14:54] <Randomskk> be easy enough to do all that on a really small micro
[14:55] <eroomde> yeah, especially if it's only a non-crazy switching rate
[14:55] <eroomde> like 100khz
[14:55] <eroomde> hmm well actually
[14:55] <Randomskk> be nice if you could foxhunt the output on an amateur radio
[14:55] <eroomde> you'd have to turn the spread off
[14:56] <Laurenceb> turn it off when landing detected
[14:57] <Randomskk> I guess if you have a baro onboard that's easy
[14:57] <eroomde> yus
[14:57] <Randomskk> just do it when you expect to be about below 500m or so, calibrated from launch pressure
[14:57] <Randomskk> heck for 500m you probably don't really need to calibrate
[14:57] <Laurenceb> temperature might work..
[14:57] <Randomskk> maybe
[14:57] <Laurenceb> and you can get that from an avr
[14:57] <Randomskk> true
[14:58] <eroomde> avrs are too expensive
[14:58] <Randomskk> attinys aren't
[14:58] <Randomskk> well
[14:58] <eroomde> this is about the 77p cortex m0 :)
[14:58] <Randomskk> that would be better
[14:58] <eroomde> which is 30MHz
[14:58] <Randomskk> does it have a temperature sensor built in too?
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[14:58] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: do you remeber if Darkside made some kind of gps sync habamp mod?
[14:58] <eroomde> don;t think so
[14:58] <Laurenceb> no adc either
[14:59] <Randomskk> haha
[14:59] <Randomskk> the revision history for the datasheet
[14:59] <Randomskk> for that m0 eroomde linked
[14:59] <Randomskk> "Editorial updates (temperature sensor removed)."
[15:00] <eroomde> nice
[15:00] <Randomskk> it has a comparator Laurenceb
[15:00] <Randomskk> comparator + two resistors + thermistor
[15:00] <Randomskk> good enough for 'on the ground'
[15:00] <Randomskk> if you want to report temperature back anyway, 1wire sensor could work
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> there are rather cheaper ways
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> thermistoe plus IRC
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> rc
[15:01] <eroomde> you mean where R is the thermistor?
[15:02] <Randomskk> haha gnarly
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> err, yes
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> that's what I meant :-)
[15:03] <Laurenceb> http://sp9uob.verox.pl/SEBA-1/IMG_1898.JPG
[15:03] <SpeedEvil> other positoonont is possible
[15:03] <Laurenceb> hehe
[15:03] <SpeedEvil> for example, DAB
[15:03] <SpeedEvil> which has the major advantage of being lots louder than GPS
[15:03] <eroomde> 198 longwave
[15:03] <SpeedEvil> dab is somewhat faster :-)
[15:04] <eroomde> is it accurate?
[15:04] <SpeedEvil> it's a bitstream
[15:04] <eroomde> and surely you have to know where you are for your to work out your time with DAB?
[15:04] <SpeedEvil> you just use it as a click
[15:04] <SpeedEvil> clock
[15:04] <eroomde> where you are relative to the DAB transmitter*
[15:04] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> you would need to over determine with receivers
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> to solve for range, unless more than one transmitter is in view at once
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> pulsars!
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[15:06] <Randomskk> haha excellent
[15:06] <Randomskk> track anywhere in the local solar vicinity ;)
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> may need a bigger transmitter
[15:07] <Laurenceb> correlate between receivers
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[15:08] <SpeedEvil> one advantage of dab over dcf77 is that the speed and randomness would mean multiple balloons would not interfere
[15:09] <KT5TK> Did you look into NDBs? They were made for air navigation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-directional_beacon
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[15:10] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[15:11] <SpeedEvil> seems like cheating.
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[15:15] <bertrik> RDS sends time too (only once a minute though)
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[15:18] <SpeedEvil> handy for if you're not sure you're on mars.
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[15:49] <HixWork> ping jonsowman
[15:49] <morteh> pong
[15:50] <eroomde> you are not jonsowman
[15:50] <eroomde> you mess with the system and people will knock on your door
[15:50] <HixWork> that your "government" speak eroomde :p
[15:50] <eroomde> re earlier chat, seems like the cheapest thermistors i can find in mall quants are 7p
[15:50] <jonsowman> hi HixWork
[15:51] <eroomde> but the C it's matched wit might be a bit expensive to get round their terrible thermal coefficients
[15:51] <eroomde> unless you just manually cal everything
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[16:07] <Laurenceb> grr need to talk to Darkside
[16:07] <Laurenceb> does he have a site?
[16:07] <Laurenceb> i seem to remember photos
[16:08] <eroomde> he's probably asleep
[16:08] <chrisstubbs> is he project horus?
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[16:09] <DrLuke__> 1 hour to go until the smd workshop :)
[16:09] <eroomde> is this about gps injection into the habamp?
[16:09] <number10> rfhead.net Laurenceb
[16:10] Nick change: DrLuke__ -> DrLuke
[16:10] <Laurenceb> thanx
[16:11] <eroomde> is this still about gps 'injection' into the habamp?
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[16:11] <Laurenceb> yes
[16:12] <eroomde> hmm
[16:12] <eroomde> well it can't be that hard
[16:14] <eroomde> http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Habamp.jpg
[16:14] <eroomde> so this looks like the simplest possible thing that could possibly work
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[16:16] <eroomde> from right to left, dc injection for the LNA, the LNA itself, an ac coupling cap, saw, then for some reason a second AC coupling cap
[16:16] <eroomde> maybe DC said something to offend him
[16:17] <Laurenceb> ah i remember
[16:17] <Laurenceb> it wasnt quite like that...
[16:17] <eroomde> i guess you could stick in a PPS between the SAW and the second AC coupling cap
[16:17] <eroomde> and you'd just see the edges
[16:17] <Laurenceb> he used 1pps
[16:17] <Laurenceb> to a cap/resistor network thingy
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[16:18] <Laurenceb> then 1pps to the network to the adc
[16:18] <Laurenceb> after the vco/mixer ic
[16:18] <eroomde> 'do the network'?
[16:18] <Laurenceb> i fail
[16:19] <Laurenceb> 1pps->cap -> ADC
[16:19] <eroomde> ah right, so somewhere inside the receiver itself?
[16:19] <Laurenceb> yes, onboard the dongle
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[16:19] <Laurenceb> so it momentarily saturates the adc on rising edge
[16:19] <Laurenceb> then you search for the starts of the short saturation periods
[16:20] <Laurenceb> that will be present on one of the channels
[16:20] <Laurenceb> of course you can then start doing clever oversampling/tracking tricks in software
[16:20] <Laurenceb> to make up for the adc sampling rate limit
[16:21] <Laurenceb> also helps to have >1pps
[16:21] <Laurenceb> which max6 can do
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[16:22] <Laurenceb> or max7 :P
[16:23] <Laurenceb> but oh noes, £19 / base station
[16:23] <Laurenceb> its more expensive than dual SAW + balun, but just a little easier
[16:24] <mattbrejza> im assuming this is tracking a balloon where on the balloon side we dont care if it has a gps?
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> ye
[16:25] <Laurenceb> correct
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> It's basically timestamping recievers so that multiple signals can be accurately added up
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> And compared.
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> On another topic.
[16:25] <mattbrejza> i was thinking of this as well, but your solution is much more basestation hardware friendly
[16:25] <Laurenceb> actually, with just a cap the IF will leak up the line top the gps
[16:25] <Laurenceb> probably best to stick a transistor or something in there
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> I'm pretty sure that this would - if on DAB frequencies - with enough recievers - give us a radar.
[16:26] <SpeedEvil> Which would be a totally different way of tracking
[16:26] <Laurenceb> heh
[16:26] <Laurenceb> radar cross section of a hab is very small
[16:26] <SpeedEvil> Not if you make it from Al foil.
[16:27] <Laurenceb> again with the nutty ideas :P
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[16:27] <SpeedEvil> I do wonder if mylar shiny balloons have nonzero radar crossection
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[16:29] <Laurenceb> work out the skin depth
[16:29] <Laurenceb> the Al is a few hundred nm
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[16:38] <Laurenceb> hi Darkside
[16:38] <Laurenceb> did you modify a dvbt dongle to add 1pps gps time sync?
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> Quick, catch him!
[16:40] <Laurenceb> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Bztr05rzA9c/T4SXh5zDyqI/AAAAAAAAA7s/L-eVFm3f9g4/s1600/fc0012.JPG
[16:41] <Laurenceb> theres 4 DC blocking caps between the vco/mixer and adc/decoder
[16:41] <Laurenceb> should be possible to use a transistor to ground the adc side of one
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[16:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> Anybody tried adding a Bias-T connection to a TV dongle yet ?
[16:49] <Upu> no I have a design for one though
[16:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> any details before I design another one ?
[16:49] <Upu> 1 sec
[16:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> I might then get round to buying a HabAmp
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[16:50] <Laurenceb> wonder if that micrel transmitter could be clocked off a clkout pin
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[16:51] <Upu> Darkside
[16:51] <Upu> is your bias-t design sharable ?
[16:52] <Laurenceb> officialscapegoat
[16:52] <Upu> its just a DC blocking cap
[16:52] <Upu> and an inductor
[16:52] <Phil_M0DNY> Upu: If it's the one on the habamp, the schematics are on his website I think ;)
[16:53] <Phil_M0DNY> *habamp v1
[16:53] <Upu> this is a standalone injector
[16:53] <Phil_M0DNY> ah
[16:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup its alright I want to keep the full range of the tv dongle so it needs more than just a simple choke at UHF
[16:53] <Upu> screws on the dongle output
[16:53] <Phil_M0DNY> nice
[16:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah haven't seen that one
[16:54] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/P492Fhh.png
[16:54] <Upu> don't think it was ever made
[16:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah right I saw he just brought out power leads from his dongle to the early ones
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[16:57] <Upu> well yeah I've made a new version of the HABAmp
[16:57] <Upu> just under testing atm
[16:57] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/HAB%20Filter/IMG_1262.JPG
[16:57] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/HAB%20Filter/IMG_1261.JPG
[16:58] <Upu> going to sell it in the enclosure and you can select which power you want via the jumpers
[16:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> Makes sense I'd seen the image of the new HabAmp board, so thought I'd try to get a Bias-T into the dongle, but don't want to compromise the tuning range
[17:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Is the new design lna then filter or the rverse ?
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[17:01] <Phil_M0DNY> Geoff-G8DHE: It's lna then saw filter.
[17:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Thought so! from that last image
[17:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> bbl had the call for tea!
[17:02] <Upu> we switched it round
[17:05] <Phil_M0DNY> Upu: Send me one and I can do some nice VNA plots for you ;)
[17:07] <Upu> oh interesting
[17:07] <Upu> you have access to a VNA ?
[17:08] <Phil_M0DNY> I have one of the usb sdr-kits ones sitting on my desk for as long as my lecturer doesn't want it back for.
[17:08] <nigelvh_> Yeah, I have one too. They're fantastic.
[17:09] <Upu> might take up on that offer, Darkside is testing the 1090Mhz version on his big jobbie
[17:11] <Phil_M0DNY> ok, I'd be happy to do it, but it could be any day now that I have to give it back.
[17:12] <Phil_M0DNY> Drop me an email, gotta dash to uni radio club meeting now :)
[17:12] <Upu> nps have fun
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[17:39] <jcoxon> evening all
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[17:41] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[17:42] <daveake> evening
[17:42] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 is this something someone else can help with?
[17:43] <ibanezmatt13> I was just wondering how Upu's balloon flight was going :)
[17:44] <daveake> what flight is that then?
[17:44] <ibanezmatt13> there's a balloon near Bradford
[17:45] <Phil_M0DNY> He's just testing.
[17:45] <daveake> Yeah that'll be a test
[17:45] <ibanezmatt13> oh right. I was going to say if he was setting one off I could have attempted to track it
[17:45] <daveake> He'd announce first if he was flying something
[17:45] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[17:50] <ibanezmatt13> How is he testing? Is it attached to the ground
[17:51] <Phil_M0DNY> ibanezmatt13: Nah, it's just the tracker.
[17:51] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok#
[17:51] <Phil_M0DNY> Probably just sitting on his windowsill or something.
[17:53] <ibanezmatt13> how does it appear on the website? Is that part of the program he's written for it?
[17:54] <Phil_M0DNY> He'll be receiving it with dl-fldigi, that automatically uploads it.
[17:54] <ibanezmatt13> That makes sense :)
[17:54] <Upu> it is on the window sill
[17:54] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Upu :)
[17:54] <Phil_M0DNY> :D
[17:54] <Upu> its actually cuddykid's tracker I soldered for him
[17:54] <Upu> with my code on it
[17:55] <ibanezmatt13> is it working as planned?
[17:56] <Upu> yup
[17:56] <ibanezmatt13> good
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[18:32] <Hix> Is it just me or is there an unlimited number of hours you can spend arsing around on a board once youve "completed" it?
[18:34] <SpeedEvil> Probably only about a million hours, tops.
[18:34] <mfa298> Can a board (or bit of software)ever be completed?
[18:37] Action: SpeedEvil throws Turing at mfa298.
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[18:45] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LM2596S-DC-DC-Step-down-Adjustable-Power-Supply-Module-/271213276591?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item3f25922daf
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if the three pots are there so people will order it just to find out what they do.
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[18:53] <chrisstubbs> "Item's color might be different from the picture because of the aberration" thats a new one
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[18:55] <SpeedEvil> Haven't you ever heard of chromatic abberation?
[18:57] <anerDev> hi guys ! I ordered hwoyee 1000g and 42 in sphrerachute ! =D
[18:57] <daveake> Nearly 3 times the price of the ones I bought. I guess that's down to the extra pots
[18:58] <chrisstubbs> oo it has LEDs too
[18:58] <Hix> chromatic abberation on what?
[18:58] <Hix> what did i miss there?
[18:58] <chrisstubbs> ebay listing photos
[18:58] <Hix> ahh
[18:59] <chrisstubbs> "Item's color might be different from the picture because of the aberration."
[18:59] <Hix> chinglish
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[19:32] <fsphil> http://www.southgatearc.org/news/may2013/raspberry_eye_in_the_sky.htm -- they didn't pick up on daves new callsign :)
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[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> Hi :) I have my antenna installed and I can recieve normal FM radio stations. However, I can't reach any of the repeaters
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> I've tried connecting to several repeaters but I can't seem to pick anything up
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[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> are the 2m repeaters NFM or USB or LSB?
[19:51] <fsphil> NFM
[19:51] <fsphil> what radio and antenna do you have?
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> Alinco DJX-10, and a Watson 2m/70cm antenna
[19:52] <fsphil> how high up is the antenna?
[19:52] <ibanezmatt13> not high at all :/
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> I'm probably gonna go up to Billinge Hill (one of the highest points in North West) later this evening, so I could test it then.
[19:54] <ibanezmatt13> I'll try a few 2m and 70cm repeaters.
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[19:54] <ibanezmatt13> Am I expecting to not hear anything apart from some morse every 15 minutes?
[19:54] <fsphil> remember they don't transmit all the time
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> what's the best way of testing it all out?
[19:56] <fsphil> does the hill have line of sight with your house?
[19:56] <ibanezmatt13> not reall
[19:56] <ibanezmatt13> really*
[19:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> Upu when are the new HabAmps likely to be in stock ?
[19:57] <ibanezmatt13> from the hill you can see the welsh mountains and then pennines and southport
[19:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> I would have thought you would hear one of the analogue repeaters in use from a hilltop.
[19:59] <cm13g09> I doubt anyone here has, but was just wondering if anyone here has played with the CC1101, and ideally, the cheap chinese USART -> CC1101 units (usually badged HC-11)
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> which analogue repeater should I try? Most of them seem to be digital, and others are not operational
[19:59] <fsphil> ah thought maybe you could run your payload at home, try receiving it from the hills
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> I've not got the transmitter yet though :(
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> Just wanted to see if I could get something out of the reciever
[20:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Have you put all the repeaters channels into memories, then you can tune thru all the channels, and any local ones would then appear
[20:00] <jcoxon> ibanezmatt13, how about some aprs?
[20:00] <jcoxon> on 144.800Mhz
[20:00] <jcoxon> FM
[20:00] <ibanezmatt13> what is aprs?
[20:00] <jcoxon> its a form of packet radio often used for sending messages and locations
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> so if I tune to 144.800 NFM, what should I hear
[20:01] <jcoxon> funny beeps
[20:01] <jcoxon> but its not difficult to get software to decode it
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[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> we're going up to the hill now. Will be back soon
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[20:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> Go to this page http://www.ukrepeater.net/list1f.php
[20:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> then dort by Frequency if its not already sorted
[20:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> and then look down the Output Coloumn
[20:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> and load into memories all the 145.xxx and 43x.xxx freq's
[20:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> then you can tune thry all the repeater channels or set the radio to scan those memory channels (best way)
[20:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> on top of the hill and it will stop on the channels that are in use.
[20:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> Duh he's gone
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[20:10] <daveake> you have to watch for that
[20:10] <daveake> I don't :p
[20:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> If I was a touch typist ;-)
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[20:16] <Upu> hey Geoff-G8DHE sorry was afk
[20:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> Thats all right!
[20:16] <Upu> just testing and I need to price them up
[20:16] <Upu> I'm going to supply in a enclosure
[20:17] <Upu> so they are going to be more expensive this time round
[20:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not optional enclosure then ?
[20:18] <Upu> well can be
[20:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not the expense but one I will probably mount with the dongle in a another cse as a single unit.
[20:18] <Upu> fair enough I'll price up the options
[20:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> Easier to plug in to laptop in the campervan without having extra bits cables leads etc.
[20:19] <Upu> sure
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[20:19] <Upu> I'll price it up tomorrow if I get a spare moment
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[20:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK no massive rush unless the weather turns fine, then we will be mobile most of the time ;-)
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[20:24] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening
[20:24] <SP9UOB-Tom> PICO is propably fall into the lake :-(
[20:25] <Upu> no further transmission ?
[20:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> no
[20:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> even no traces
[20:25] <Upu> thats unlucky
[20:26] <Upu> been to the lake ?
[20:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> shift happens ;-)
[20:26] <Upu> it does, usually at 425hz :)
[20:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> not me - SP9GZY
[20:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> not me - SP@GZY
[20:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> not me - SP2GZY
[20:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> argh
[20:26] <Upu> you know what this means ? Time to launch another
[20:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> weather is not ok to launch pico
[20:27] <SP9UOB-Tom> upu: this time with straw in the valve
[20:27] <Upu> think that will work ?
[20:27] <SP9UOB-Tom> let me check :-) I have one qualatex left
[20:28] <Upu> I await the results of your experiment :)
[20:28] <SP9UOB-Tom> anyway i have working solar setup with 2 small cells (1V) and MAX7 :-)
[20:28] <Upu> nice
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[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> cells weight about nothing :-)
[20:29] <Upu> super light
[20:29] <Upu> evening Lunar
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> duty is heavier than mountains, solar cells are lighter than a feather.
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> unless you are trying to carry them up a ladder and it's windy
[20:33] <fsphil> house up the road from here got 12x 100W panels installed today
[20:33] <fsphil> </PV envy>
[20:33] <fsphil> they also have a south facing roof which I don't
[20:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> Trying to beat EU Tax hike no doubt +47% aparently to stop dumping
[20:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> starts 6th June to December to start with :-(
[20:34] <fsphil> urg
[20:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: im building my house, im planning to install 2kW (peak) solars
[20:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> All the dealers are holding on to them in order to cash in on the increased price ....
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: 100w is unlikely
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: 230ish is usual
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> Geoff-G8DHE: doesn't work that way
[20:36] <anerDev> good night guys
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[20:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> we have here 180Wp monocrystal for about 800 z³ -> about 195 EUR
[20:36] <fsphil> SpeedEvil: they might be .. I calculated it only roughtly from the size, compared to my own
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> the duty is paid to the EU
[20:36] <fsphil> but mine are quite old
[20:36] <fsphil> I'm making sure my next house has a south facing roof
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: it depends
[20:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: i told the same to my architect
[20:37] <fsphil> my panels are 55W and these seem to be twice as big
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: an unshaded east west roof can be almost as good
[20:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> and I have :-)
[20:37] <fsphil> SpeedEvil: really?
[20:37] <fsphil> I've no shadows on the roof, except itself
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps4/pvest.php
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> while it is less good in winter, it gets sun a lot earlier in the summer
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> also, it's possible to use a 3.5kw inverter and 7kw of panels, half on each side
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> this vastly boosts your output
[20:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup several round my way have that setup
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> but does not exceed the 16a/phase or 4kw limits
[20:39] <fsphil> SpeedEvil: that's a lot better than I expected
[20:39] <SP9UOB-Tom> http://sp9uob.verox.pl/dom/elewacje.pdf
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> actually flat amusongly works not terribly
[20:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> large surface facing directly to the south
[20:40] <fsphil> nice SP9UOB-Tom
[20:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> nice indeed
[20:40] <mattbrejza> SP9UOB-Tom: i hope your new house has a special HAB launching roof that opens to allow the balloon to fly away after filling
[20:40] <fsphil> lol
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[20:41] <fsphil> fill from the comfort of your own front room
[20:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> lol
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> and a tethered 2km balloon for antenna
[20:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> Isn't that the structure by marker 2 ?
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[20:41] <daveake> intrinsicallly safe electrics so you can use h2
[20:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> it maybe problem because of wier antennas
[20:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> wire antennas
[20:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> :-)
[20:42] <fsphil> hopefully your inverters are not RF noisy
[20:42] <fsphil> I got a cheap one that is quite shouty over 80-20m
[20:42] <ibanezmatt13> Just picked up some sort of repeater transmitting data. It had a constant baud rate. https://www.dropbox.com/s/rhx2a9uo9dnyvn2/WP_20130530_201724Z.mp4 please watch!
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[20:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: im thinking about DC 320V installation
[20:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> no inverters
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[20:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> look, allmost all devices have switching PSuS
[20:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> with rectifier at input
[20:43] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: don't think that's a repeater
[20:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nor packet either was that 140.02MHz ?
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[20:44] <fsphil> there are similar data signals here
[20:44] <fsphil> I think they're commercial
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[20:44] <ibanezmatt13> Was it definitely data
[20:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> Of some sort yes
[20:44] <fsphil> oh it is data yes
[20:44] <fsphil> but not amateur
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> Could I have a go at decoding it with dl-fldigi
[20:45] <fsphil> SP9UOB-Tom: interesting
[20:45] <fsphil> SP9UOB-Tom: how are you going to distribute that around the house?
[20:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Use this table to put the 2m and 70cm Tx freq's into memoeries then tyou can scan them http://www.ukrepeater.net/repeaterlist0.htm
[20:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> washing mashine, freezer etc may be powered from grid network
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> thanks Geoff-G8DHE
[20:45] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: it won't be a format that fldigi can understand
[20:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: just like normal AC
[20:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Don' worry about the DVU (Digital repeaters)
[20:46] <Upu> not sur ewhat that is ibanezmatt13
[20:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> fuses, sockets etc
[20:46] <ibanezmatt13> I couldn't work it out either
[20:46] <fsphil> there used to be an OFCOM website you could look up frequencies and who's operating on it
[20:46] <fsphil> last time I did it those data links where from various businesses
[20:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> buffering DC is easy
[20:47] <fsphil> SP9UOB-Tom: will you have batteries?
[20:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> yes
[20:47] <fsphil> I'd probably keep mine grid-tied just to avoid having batteries
[20:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> in case of moving clouds :-)
[20:47] <fsphil> though it's ironic sitting during a power cut with a PV array and no electricity :)
[20:48] <ibanezmatt13> Is there anything that I can tune to now to try and use dl-fldigi. Anything at all?
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[20:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> wel, i was thinking about ongrid inverter but is not cheap
[20:48] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: if you really wanted to use fldigi i have some flight recordings
[20:48] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: there's very little on VHF or UHF -- does the radio do shortwave?
[20:48] <mattbrejza> cant use the radio oc
[20:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> Only if you can find some amateur type data signals to tune into
[20:49] <ibanezmatt13> I think it does SW
[20:49] <ibanezmatt13> Certainly does MW
[20:49] <fsphil> we're probably the main users of digital text modes on UHF
[20:49] <fsphil> you'll get all sorts of RTTY around 7.050 mhz ish
[20:49] <fsphil> or maybe 14.050 mhz
[20:49] <fsphil> USB
[20:50] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a go
[20:50] <fsphil> but your antenna might not be good for it. a long wire out the window works well
[20:50] <fsphil> you should hear rtty, morse code and psk31
[20:50] <fsphil> fldigi can handle all those
[20:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> ibanezmatt13: pure HAB RTTY http://sp9uob.verox.pl/balon/capture.wav
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[20:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: back to the batteries - they gives You authonomy :-)
[20:52] <fsphil> true
[20:52] <fsphil> I'd love to get off the grid totally
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[20:52] <SP9UOB-Tom> anyway - please - if im writing something in bad english - please correct me ;-)
[20:52] <fsphil> don't get enough sun here :)
[20:53] <fsphil> your english is better than some english people I know
[20:53] <fsphil> and I'm not joking
[20:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: yup, i was in London several times. I think in Your location can be only worse :-)
[20:53] <fsphil> I must wire up a raspberry pi to my inverter
[20:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> i have problems with grammar
[20:53] <fsphil> it can report how much power it generates
[20:54] <daveake> Way better than a couple of examples that we've had here
[20:54] <fsphil> well not generates
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[20:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: this is my todays consumption: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/dom/moc.png
[20:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> power consumption i mean
[20:57] <fsphil> if you've IPv6, in theory running this on linux will show the view from my Pi camera: nc 2001:8b0:34:1:ba27:ebff:feca:d18b 5500 | mplayer -demuxer h264es -fps 25 -
[20:57] <fsphil> oooh nice
[20:58] <fsphil> I've nothing to measure power consumption
[20:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> it is measured by PIC :-)
[20:58] <fsphil> just what the panels generate
[20:58] <fsphil> consumption would be more useful I suspect
[20:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> i jave LE02d counter and PIC connected to it
[20:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> have
[20:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> it generates one impulse per Wh
[20:59] <ibanezmatt13> picked something up on 14.0043 USB
[20:59] <ibanezmatt13> some sort of beeping
[20:59] <fsphil> could be morse code
[20:59] <ibanezmatt13> sounds like it
[20:59] <ibanezmatt13> shall I record it for you?
[20:59] <fsphil> try decoding it in fldigi
[20:59] <ibanezmatt13> I don't know how to use it at all
[21:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: i see You
[21:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> :-)
[21:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> so not exactly You
[21:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> but Your neighbour
[21:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> here is total dark
[21:00] <fsphil> aah cool, is it playing smoothly?
[21:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> well yes
[21:00] <fsphil> not far from it here
[21:01] <fsphil> be dark in 30 minutes
[21:01] <SP9UOB-Tom> so go with the dog ant let me see ;-)
[21:01] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: There are two different tones going on. Sounds like two different morse codes on same frequency
[21:01] <SP9UOB-Tom> wait... UPU has a dog
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[21:01] <fsphil> I've a dog too. I won't turn the camera around, the room is too untidy :)
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[21:02] <Upu> SP9UOB-Tom http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGW228zvjEw&list=UUGkq3Q2JQhN_ChjcPPwAW3A&index=12
[21:03] <SP9UOB-Tom> just like mine - dont be shy ;-)
[21:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: nice :-)
[21:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: :-)
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[21:06] <fsphil> see, pretty bad
[21:06] <Willdude123> Evening
[21:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: friend of mine has installed remote cameras in his garage, and send its address to co-workers
[21:06] <fsphil> actually I've no idea if I even poitned it right
[21:06] <fsphil> pointed*
[21:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: tto dark :-)
[21:06] <fsphil> couldn't see the screen
[21:06] <ibanezmatt13> any idea how to config dl-fldigi to listen to USB 14.0040?
[21:07] <ibanezmatt13> It's got a yellow waterfall
[21:07] <SP9UOB-Tom> and he call to his wife, told her, he is watching
[21:07] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: morse code signals can be quite near eachother - they don't take up much bandwidth
[21:07] <SP9UOB-Tom> and she give him a show...
[21:07] <fsphil> eek
[21:07] <SP9UOB-Tom> with few peoples watching :-)
[21:08] <ibanezmatt13> is morse RTTY?
[21:08] <fsphil> are they still together? :)
[21:08] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: nope
[21:08] <ibanezmatt13> what is it?
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[21:08] <fsphil> morse is morse
[21:08] <Willdude123> Wikipedia it.
[21:08] <fsphil> rtty is rtty :)
[21:08] <ibanezmatt13> is there no op mode in dl-fldigi for it?
[21:08] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: sure :-) They are cool guys :-) But the history is alive between friends
[21:09] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: it calls it CW
[21:09] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[21:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> unfortunetly no one has a record
[21:09] <fsphil> lol
[21:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> anyway ipv6 streaming is working really stable
[21:10] <fsphil> I've kept the bitrate and resolution down a bit
[21:10] <fsphil> the default is 1920x1080, 30fps and 10mbit/s
[21:10] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: at http://sp9uob.verox.pl/dom/moc.png you Can see when the freezer turns on, and the oven
[21:11] <fsphil> guessing the oven is the big spike
[21:11] <fsphil> around dinner time :)
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> SP9UOB-Tom: if you look closely, you can also work out house temperature and freezer openings
[21:11] <fsphil> your average usage is pretty similar to ours actually
[21:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: PC and IC-9100 was working all night - pico tracking
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> you can then go onto correlate electricity versus TV signal. to work out what's being watched
[21:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: as meter im using this: http://www.fif.com.pl/produkt/1543/793
[21:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> it gives 1 impulse per Wh
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> oh, right
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> above needs more samples
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> I have a meter giving 6s watt readouts
[21:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> SpeedEvil: i imp/Wh is enough
[21:13] <fsphil> our meter is digital but I don't see any way to interface with it
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: webcam
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> OCR
[21:14] <fsphil> it needs buttons pressed to display current usage
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> also, you van pick up the flashes
[21:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: this is in my house connected in series with power company meter
[21:15] <SP9UOB-Tom> so i have own metering with interface :-)
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> To bring this sort-of-back-on-topic
[21:15] <fsphil> nice thing about the meter (if I could read from it) is it measures exported electricity too
[21:15] <fsphil> not that I do very often
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> Most of the purchaseable 'whole house' energy meters have a 433MHz transmitter
[21:15] <fsphil> I had wondered about that SpeedEvil :) reading it with an rtlsdr
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> though mine has USB
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> which is rather easier
[21:16] <fsphil> just a bit
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Current-Cost-Black-EnviR-Eon-Energy-Electricity-Saving-Monitor-/181143083603?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item2a2cf81a53
[21:17] <fsphil> brb
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> the deeply insane barking mad part is that the above has a AC power supply for the display.
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[21:17] <SpeedEvil> The barking mad part? It doesn't use it for a phase reference.
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[21:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: now i can see compression
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[21:18] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Current-Cost-Development-Board-Pack-of-3-/180548999321?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item2a098f1899
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> Though - how cool is that!
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[21:37] <cm13g09> well that was entertaining
[21:37] <cm13g09> just spent ~3 hours working on those HC-11 modules
[21:37] <cm13g09> got them working :
[21:37] <cm13g09> :)
[21:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all
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[21:45] <Laurenceb__> SpeedEvil: current cost is arduino based
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> No, it's not.
[21:46] <chrisstubbs> think they are pic
[21:46] <chrisstubbs> from the ones i have smashed apart
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> Whatever it is, it's certainly not arduino
[21:46] <Laurenceb__> ok maybe not
[21:46] <Laurenceb__> i was looking at some of the kit for it
[21:47] <Laurenceb__> and grabbing firmware off
[21:47] <Laurenceb__> havent dismantled the central unit yet
[21:48] <cuddykid> fsphil: is the restriction on image size for ssdv just that height & width have to be divisible by 16?
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> AVR based - perhaps
[21:49] <fsphil> cuddykid: yep, and <= 4080
[21:50] <cuddykid> fsphil: brilliant, cheers
[21:52] <fsphil> there's also a restriction on the number of MCU blocks but that won't be a problem unless you've a pretty large image
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[21:59] <mfa298> fsphil: reading through the scrollback there's a large(ish) pdf for the Frequency's from Ofcom at: http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/spectrum/information/uk-fat/
[22:00] <mfa298> I've usually found you need to look a few pages either side of what you're interested in to find all the matching allocations
[22:01] <fsphil> I can't find the website I used before
[22:01] <fsphil> I should really bookmark things
[22:02] <mfa298> I think I still have a really old spiral bound list of frequencies somewhere (probably from around 20 years ago)
[22:02] <mfa298> I suspect it's not that accurate these days
[22:02] <mfa298> book marking only works if you can find the bookmark
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> And the book
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[22:05] <fsphil> I made the mistake of using a gift card as a bookmark, in a book that wasn't that interesting
[22:06] <fsphil> didn't find that card again for a year
[22:08] <mfa298> I'm not sure these new-fangled plastic gift cards work so well as bookmarks.
[22:09] <mfa298> the older paper oens were much better for that - you also knew how much your bookmark was worth
[22:09] <chrisstubbs> Well the A23 battery probably isnt suitable for HAB http://bit.ly/18C7OLE
[22:09] <chrisstubbs> might make a good rfm22b warmer for 5 mins though
[22:10] <SpeedEvil> hawt
[22:10] <SpeedEvil> Is that one of the 12v ones?
[22:10] <chrisstubbs> plus the regulator on my board is only rated up to 6v
[22:10] <chrisstubbs> so i had to use a 7805 with it :P
[22:10] <chrisstubbs> yeah 12v
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> Also, it's likely that the temperature is higher
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> Unless the battery diameter exceeds the lens diameter of the IR thermometer
[22:11] <chrisstubbs> that thermometer isnt going to win any prizes
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[22:11] <chrisstubbs> battery is so flat the screen is unreadable when the laser is on
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> Favourite trick with an IR thermometer.
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> Take a boiling pan of water.
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> Place a sheet of foil over it.
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> What temperature do you measure when you point the thermometer at it?
[22:12] <chrisstubbs> er
[22:12] <chrisstubbs> how shiny is the foil?
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[22:13] <qyx_> using 7805 to convert 12V->5V is just waste of expensive power
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> normal aluminium foil, fresh off the roll
[22:13] <chrisstubbs> the reflected temperature?
[22:14] <chrisstubbs> qyx_, i got 5 of the batteries for £1 :P
[22:14] <chrisstubbs> think i will stick with the lithiums lol
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> chrisstubbs: yup!
[22:14] <chrisstubbs> cool :)
[22:14] <chrisstubbs> Will try that one day
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> chrisstubbs: I diddn't expect it to work that well - I managed to get a reading of 7C
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> It was cold in the kitchen
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> Smear the thinnest coat of oil on the top of the foil, and it jumps to 100C
[22:15] <chrisstubbs> when I first got it I did the obligatory walk round the house seeing how hot stuff is
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> Also valuable if you need to measure the temperature of metals while heating.
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> You can get it _badly_ wrong if you forget that
[22:16] <chrisstubbs> I used when building the hot end on my reprap
[22:16] <chrisstubbs> the readings were way off, and that could be why
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> And the smallest thing it can measure accurately is the diameter of the lens - and then only at exactly the lens
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> It starts to widen immediately
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[22:30] <Laurenceb__> hmm i want to make a "spread spectrum" beacon now
[22:30] <Laurenceb__> using that lpc micro + micrel tx looks easy
[22:31] <qyx_> why in ""?
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[22:31] <Laurenceb__> well its not psk
[22:31] <qyx_> fhss or dsss?
[22:31] <Laurenceb__> unless you add external stuff
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[22:31] <Laurenceb__> AM with ground side correlation
[22:32] <qyx_> i was considering using any 433MHz OOK transmitter going thru iq modulator
[22:32] <qyx_> with f303
[22:32] <Laurenceb__> heh
[22:33] <Laurenceb__> eroomde was suggesting uber cheap
[22:33] <Laurenceb__> seems a good aim
[22:33] <qyx_> uber cheap what?
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> Payload
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> For RAIP
[22:34] <Laurenceb__> whut O_o
[22:35] <Laurenceb__> :P
[22:35] <Laurenceb__> i guess F3 is hardly more expensive
[22:35] <Laurenceb__> probably still possible to do payload for <£5
[22:36] <qyx_> just beacon?
[22:36] <Laurenceb__> yes
[22:36] <qyx_> hm, you still can do gps in sw :>
[22:36] <Laurenceb__> yeah we were wondering how to sync the basestations
[22:37] <Laurenceb__> one idea is gps 1pps to the adc on a dongle
[22:37] <Laurenceb__> through a npn transistor
[22:37] <qyx_> nice idea
[22:37] <Laurenceb__> so it momentarily grounds the adc on either the I or Q
[22:38] <Laurenceb__> i should play in matlab
[22:39] <Laurenceb__> mathematically, its carrier*AM_prn_envelope
[22:39] <Laurenceb__> so gps style fourier deconv should work
[22:39] <Laurenceb__> similar to sat acquisition in gps
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[22:40] <Laurenceb__> then some kind of traking loop to track the 1pps timebase, and maybe some data sent on the carrier
[22:40] <Laurenceb__> then time offsets to central server
[22:41] <mattbrejza> it could send N samples either side of the timepulse and have the server align the demodulated data
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> Is there any point in sending ...
[22:42] <mattbrejza> somewhat more effort on the servers end
[22:42] <Laurenceb__> easier way
[22:42] <Laurenceb__> just send the correlation plot
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[22:42] <Laurenceb__> then server side kalman filtering
[22:43] <Laurenceb__> annoyingly you need at least 4 listeners
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> Well, sort-of
[22:44] <qyx_> 4?
[22:44] <qyx_> to determine 3D?
[22:44] <Laurenceb__> but you could potentially do it with very short (like 10ms) tx "chirps"
[22:44] <Laurenceb__> yes
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> You can sort of fake altitude if you have temperature
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[22:44] <Laurenceb__> so thats like tens of µA
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> Which would take it down to 3
[22:45] <Laurenceb__> if you had a photodiode it could run off that
[22:45] <qyx_> actually if you are able to trasmit in exact period
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> Doesn't 868 have a burst mode which would allow more power?
[22:45] <qyx_> not all receivers would be needed all the time
[22:46] <qyx_> it has 0.1% duty cycle at 500mW or somethink like that
[22:46] <qyx_> g
[22:46] <Laurenceb__> i was thinking of micrel tx at 434, 10dBm
[22:47] <Laurenceb__> thats ~10mA @ 3v for tx
[22:48] <qyx_> a job for a CR2032 or similar low cost
[22:48] <qyx_> if just bursts are required
[22:49] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[22:49] <Laurenceb__> supercap is a little silly
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[22:52] <Laurenceb__> http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/PowerStor-Cooper-Bussmann/PHV-5R4H155-R/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsCu9HefNWqppZeoL0TlRLCVDfj950BrrI%3d
[22:52] <Laurenceb__> -40C supercap
[22:52] <qyx_> some of the lithiums go down to -55
[22:56] <Laurenceb__> then you need charge control
[22:56] <qyx_> what for?
[22:59] <Laurenceb__> charging lithium
[22:59] <Laurenceb__> or
[22:59] <Laurenceb__> non rechargeable, i see
[23:00] <qyx_> yes, i meant primary cell
[23:00] <Laurenceb__> got you
[23:01] <qyx_> 10mA tx at 10% duty cycle should last for about 200 hours
[23:01] <Laurenceb__> heh
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[23:02] <qyx_> should, never tested that on cr2032
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[23:41] <SpeedEvil> Well, teeeny solar
[23:42] <SpeedEvil> But there is probably little point
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[00:00] --- Fri May 31 2013