highaltitude.log.20130528

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[02:57] <nigelvh> Ping KT5TK
[03:15] <KT5TK> hi nigelvh
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[06:50] <griffonbot> @GolfRomeoEcho: @daveake: Write-up of my Pi In The Sky flight number 6 http://t.co/mJ0u2KJGg0 #UKHAS #raspberry_pi really cool :) [http://twitter.com/GolfRomeoEcho/status/339272518311505920]
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[06:55] <ibanezmatt13> Morning :)
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[06:57] <ibanezmatt13> Yesterday I managed to get my code converting the correct image into packets after the best image had been selected, moved and the rest deleted. What I need to work out now is what to do with the packets file that the SSDV program has returned.
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[06:58] <ibanezmatt13> I know how to open the packets file as a file object in Python. I just don't know what the file consists of because it only shows me Windings when I try to open it. I know it contains bytes, but I need to somehow send these bytes to the serial port.
[06:59] <ibanezmatt13> Does anybody know what the program must do to the packets file in order to send the individual bits over the radio?
[07:00] <daveake> Read 'em send 'em done.
[07:01] <ibanezmatt13> But what exactly must I read? What is the file made up of?
[07:01] <daveake> What I do is read 256 bytes at a time, send those 256, then go back. Once in a while I send a telemetry packet between the ssdv packets.
[07:01] <daveake> bytes
[07:02] <ibanezmatt13> So I'd do, f = open("packets", "rb"); f.read(256)
[07:02] <ibanezmatt13> well, variable = f.read(256)
[07:02] <daveake> Looks ok (I don't know much Python)
[07:03] <ibanezmatt13> alright thanks :) So, once I've read 256 bytes, when I go to read the next lot, will it move onto the next 256 bytes as opposed to repeating the first one?
[07:04] <daveake> yes
[07:04] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[07:04] <daveake> You could read 256 one at a time; same deal
[07:04] <daveake> Perhaps a Python tutorial would be in order?
[07:05] <ibanezmatt13> I was trying to get the serial working last night. I had to go into two files and do some stuff. I have the python serial library installed. But, I'm not sure whether I was opening the port correctly.
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[07:06] <daveake> Well, if you look up the open function for the serial library, it'll have a return value which you can test to see if it works
[07:07] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes it does, just found it. I'll try it now :)
[07:07] <ibanezmatt13> It didn't work. It said now such file or directory
[07:08] <ibanezmatt13> It imported serial fine though
[07:08] <ibanezmatt13> http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/shortintro.html#opening-serial-ports
[07:08] <daveake> > It said now such file or directory
[07:08] <daveake> That's probably a clue
[07:08] <ibanezmatt13> I may have not edited those files correctly...
[07:09] <daveake> Also, on the Pi, the serial port has getty running on it by default. You need to disable that (Google is your friend)
[07:09] <ibanezmatt13> I think I did disable that by commenting it out as per the Adafruit website. I also edited the /boot/cmdline.txt as per Aadafruit's tutorial as well.
[07:10] <daveake> ok that side should be fine then
[07:11] <ibanezmatt13> the error was that it could not open port due to no directory
[07:12] <ibanezmatt13> Perhaps there is a different way to configure the serial depending on the OS?
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[07:17] <ibanezmatt13> I've just double checked those two files; nothing wrong there...
[07:18] <UpuWork> morning
[07:18] <UpuWork> hey ibanezmatt13
[07:18] <UpuWork> will post today :)
[07:19] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: Morning :) Thank you very much. Do you know how long it should take?
[07:19] <UpuWork> post office...
[07:19] <UpuWork> should be tommorrow
[07:19] <UpuWork> but don't hold your breath
[07:19] <ibanezmatt13> alright, thanks :)
[07:19] <daveake> This help? http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=40180&p=332237
[07:20] <ibanezmatt13> I'll read it. I got that exact message
[07:21] <daveake> I just googled; it's a useful skill ;)
[07:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> Morning
[07:23] <ibanezmatt13> Well, I hadn't put a space in what I wrote but it's working now I think. I made a 3 letter string called 'a' and wrote it to the serial. It returned the number 3. What would that have done exacltly if I had the NTX2 hooked up to it?
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[07:24] <SP9UOB-Tom> seba-3 chasing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekh3lCLF9SE&feature=youtu.be
[07:25] <ibanezmatt13> SP9UOB-Tom: Nice :)
[07:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> anyway - i have idea to make PICO floating - just put straw into the valve
[07:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> must test this soon :)
[07:26] <fsphil> moooorning. back to work, yay-ish
[07:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: this should make pico a zero-pressure balloon :-)
[07:27] <fsphil> wouldn't it all leak out the instant it went sideways?
[07:27] <daveake> SP9UOB-Tom Yeah I wondered about that. Should work :)
[07:28] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: i dont know, maybe i need just pull off the valve to outside - "reverse gear"
[07:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> i cant find the correct word
[07:29] <number10> nice video Tom
[07:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> fold out ?
[07:30] <SP9UOB-Tom> number10: thanks :-)
[07:30] <number10> I notice your chase car has something that daveakes doesnt
[07:30] <Darkside> :<
[07:30] <fsphil> uh-oh
[07:30] <SP9UOB-Tom> number10: its not mine, chasing team was wery well organized :-)
[07:30] <number10> the orange flashing light
[07:30] <number10> daveake is going to have to get one of these
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[07:34] <daveake> lol
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[07:36] <number10> oh BTW - nice pictures on your write up daveake
[07:36] <daveake> cheers :)
[07:39] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: should I open and close the serial port for each transmission of 256 bytes?
[07:42] <daveake> Probably. In C at least it forces a wait till the data has gone. You want that because otherwise when you get round to sending telemetry that may get delayed waiting for previous data to get sent.
[07:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> all: where is the map of APRS areas
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[07:42] <ibanezmatt13> ok :) thanks
[07:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> ok found it
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[07:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> bye all
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[07:49] <zyp> ibanezmatt13, actually you should just call flush() on it
[07:49] <zyp> that would do the same wait until data has gone without actually having to close and reopen the port
[07:50] <zyp> (the reason close works is because close invokes flush first)
[07:57] <ibanezmatt13> so would I open it before my loop, and after I've written to the port would I just write flush(). And then close the port when it finishes the loop?
[08:00] <zyp> something like that
[08:00] <fsphil> or flush before you write
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[08:00] <Randomskk> but not before you wipe
[08:00] <fsphil> yes
[08:00] <Randomskk> v important
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[08:01] <zyp> fsphil, flush after you write, before you prepare new telemetry
[08:01] <fsphil> zyp: then you'd have a gap
[08:01] <fsphil> a very small gap at 300 baud to be fair :)
[08:02] <ibanezmatt13> I've got a loop: while packets != '': serial.write(packets) flush()
[08:03] <ibanezmatt13> I basically, read the packets file. And then I have a while loop which works when there are still packets left to be sent. In the loop, I open the serial, re-read the file to update packets variable, write to serial, flush() then it does it again
[08:05] <fsphil> that'll be pretty close to it
[08:05] <fsphil> though with the flush() there probably is no need to open the port each time
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[08:08] <ibanezmatt13> when I got to flush() it failed saying flush() is not defined. Must I install flush?
[08:08] <ibanezmatt13> or import it
[08:08] <fsphil> flush is a property of the serial object
[08:08] <fsphil> well, a method
[08:08] <fsphil> same as write
[08:09] <ibanezmatt13> oh so I have to do serial.flush() I just did flush() :)
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[08:20] <griffonbot> Received email: GMT "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Sunday 26th May"
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13> How long on average does it take for a 30 packet image to be sent?
[08:22] <fsphil> depends on your baud rate
[08:22] <fsphil> and number of stop bits
[08:22] <ibanezmatt13> Mine is transmitting a full packet every 7-8 seconds.
[08:23] <fsphil> if two stop bits, each byte takes 11 bits
[08:23] <fsphil> (1 start bit, 8 data bits, 2 stop bits)
[08:23] <fsphil> just multiply that by 256 for the number of bits per packet
[08:23] <fsphil> then you can work how how long that takes to transmit if your sending 300 bits per second
[08:23] <fsphil> then just multiply by the number of packets
[08:23] <ibanezmatt13> thanks. :)
[08:24] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Sunday 26th May"
[08:25] <fsphil> 1 stop bit is in theory better (less waste) but in practice fldigi doesn't like it
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13> I'm just troubleshooting my program. I've just realised that it is sending the same packet each time. I wondered why it said it had sent 40 packets for a 30 packet image. I'll rethink the way I've written it
[08:29] <griffonbot> Received email: NickB "[UKHAS] Re: Falcon - Launch announcement (25th of May)"
[08:34] <ibanezmatt13> this is part of what I have written: https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5661338 It is opening and closing the ports fine, but it is constantly writing the same packet to the port.
[08:34] <ibanezmatt13> Does anybody know how to read 256 bytes, then delete these 256 bytes. So, when you next open the file, the next 256 bytes are ready to be read?
[08:35] <Randomskk> uhm
[08:35] <Randomskk> don't do that
[08:35] <fsphil> hehe
[08:35] <Randomskk> just keep reading
[08:35] <fsphil> every time you open a file, it opens at the start
[08:35] <Randomskk> we covered this like yesterday or two days ago
[08:35] <Randomskk> as in, you even had working sample code for this
[08:36] <ibanezmatt13> Hang on, let me check my Github
[08:36] <Randomskk> open the file once, then read the first 256 bytes, then while what you read is not "", transmit it byte by byte and read the next 256 bytes
[08:37] <ibanezmatt13> So I don't close the file until it is done
[08:37] <Randomskk> correct
[08:37] <ibanezmatt13> That's where I've been going wrong I think
[08:38] <Randomskk> sounds like it
[08:38] <ibanezmatt13> So I open the serial, open the file, and read the file once, all before loop. Then in the loop, all I do is re-read, write to serial and flush?
[08:39] <Randomskk> in the loop you write to serial then re-read
[08:39] <Randomskk> since you've already read it once
[08:39] <ibanezmatt13> That makes sense :) Thanks
[08:41] <ibanezmatt13> Wow! It's working! It looks so good :)
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[08:41] <Randomskk> nice
[08:44] <HixWork> 'Mornin
[08:44] <fsphil> morn
[08:44] <ibanezmatt13> I'm a little confused. If I had a 31 packet image, why did it end the loop after 16 packets?
[08:44] <HixWork> for what ;p
[08:44] <fsphil> the passing of the bank holiday
[08:45] <eroomde> you're doing 2 packets at a time?
[08:46] <ibanezmatt13> How could that be? https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5661338
[08:46] <ibanezmatt13> In fact forget that, that's before I updated it
[08:47] <ibanezmatt13> I've seen the issue
[08:47] <ibanezmatt13> Take 2...
[08:47] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Sunday 26th May"
[08:50] <ibanezmatt13> I think it's working, it's still going past 16 packets
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> IT WORKED!
[08:54] <eroomde> nice
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[09:34] <ibanezmatt13> How is it possible to interlace telemetry and SSDV? I have a program which transmits images, and I'll soon have another which transmits GPS. How can I interlace the two without conflict?
[09:36] <lz1dev> transmit a couple of ssdv packets then a GPS sentence
[09:36] <lz1dev> repeat :)
[09:37] <ibanezmatt13> That would make sense. Would it not interupt the sending of the packets?
[09:37] <lz1dev> let me put it another way
[09:38] <lz1dev> say you want to get a gps position every 30sec, so you send sentenances in 30sec interval
[09:38] <lz1dev> all the other time, you can send ssdv packets
[09:38] <lz1dev> ssdv image has a lot of packets, so whenever you are not sending telemetry, send those
[09:39] <ibanezmatt13> I understand :) Thanks. It took me about 4 minutes to send a 30 packet image!
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[11:11] <cn8dn> hello
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[11:50] <griffonbot> @DJToadie: RT @daveake: Write-up of my Pi In The Sky flight number 6 http://t.co/2lBcdTJhua #UKHAS #raspberry_pi [http://twitter.com/DJToadie/status/339348026663514113]
[11:52] <daveake> "Armchair Astronaut" LOL http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/28/raspberry-pi-camera-sky/?utm_medium=feed&utm_source=Feed_Classic&utm_campaign=Engadget
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:52] <chrisstubbs> Hah, the "HAB Geezers" article from a while back made me laugh
[11:54] <HixWork> 2 spare tickets to "Infinite Monkey Cage" 10-06-13 18:00 Portland place. Anyone want one/them?
[11:55] <Babs> Nice. Where did you get the polystyrene raspberry "Armchair" Dave?
[11:56] <griffonbot> @daveake: Full set of hi-res images from Pi In The Sky flight 6 http://t.co/ERL3LRGjFL #UKHAS #raspberry_pi [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/339349514349592576]
[11:56] <daveake> Get? Made :)
[11:57] <daveake> Printed 2 copies of the logo; stuck them down to 2 sheets of extruded foam, then cut round with a hit wire cutter
[11:57] <daveake> er, cut with scissors before sticking down
[11:57] <SpeedEvil> I was about to say that's what it looked like :)
[11:58] <daveake> I won't do it again - it span terribly when falling
[11:59] <chrisstubbs> daveake, were 2 of the radials connected together between the two antennas?
[11:59] <daveake> yup
[11:59] <chrisstubbs> ok cool
[12:00] <chrisstubbs> so were they 1/2 wavelength apart?
[12:00] <daveake> 1/4
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[12:00] <Babs> We should create a separate IRC channel dedicated to sculptures in polystyrene. I loved the photo overlay by the way Dave
[12:01] <daveake> Ah that was Geoff Mather not me :)
[12:01] <griffonbot> @ukscone: RT @daveake: Full set of hi-res images from Pi In The Sky flight 6 http://t.co/ERL3LRGjFL #UKHAS #raspberry_pi [http://twitter.com/ukscone/status/339350795013193728]
[12:02] <chrisstubbs> Ok thanks, I had been wondering about the technicalities of putting antennas that close together
[12:02] <griffonbot> @_smstext: RT @daveake: Full set of hi-res images from Pi In The Sky flight 6 http://t.co/ERL3LRGjFL #UKHAS #raspberry_pi [http://twitter.com/_smstext/status/339350876487548929]
[12:02] <Babs> Geoff is a google earth guru
[12:02] <daveake> Well, I read somewhere min distance was 1/4, and really that's all I had without making the thing much larger
[12:03] <daveake> It flew upside-down because that gave me a wider base for the aerials
[12:03] <griffonbot> @_RaTTuS_: RT @daveake: Full set of hi-res images from Pi In The Sky flight 6 http://t.co/ERL3LRGjFL #UKHAS #raspberry_pi [http://twitter.com/_RaTTuS_/status/339351141341073408]
[12:03] <daveake> sorry about the RTs
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[12:06] <mfa298> with it being purely transmit and at low power the spacing probably doesn't make much difference. The only thing possibly to be aware of is if a radial is shared between both transmitters.
[12:07] <ibanezmatt13> I've got a new webcam for my Raspberry Pi. However, when I run fswebcam it says it couldn't find an input. The webcam however has a driver installed (shown at startup). Any ideas?
[12:07] <fsphil> if it loaded up correctly you'll see a device in /dev
[12:08] <fsphil> something like /dev/video0
[12:08] <ibanezmatt13> I'll check now
[12:09] <ibanezmatt13> That directory doesn't exist
[12:09] <UpuWork> ping ibanezmatt13
[12:09] <UpuWork> oh there you are
[12:09] <UpuWork> pm
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[12:09] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Upu :)
[12:10] <fsphil> /dev always exists :)
[12:10] <UpuWork> private message :)
[12:10] <HixWork> This place is really cheap for components http://www.toby.co.uk/index.aspx
[12:10] <chrisstubbs> Prices to 3 d.p
[12:10] <cuddykid> nice coverage daveake !!
[12:11] <cuddykid> not surprised in the least though - the images you captured were extraordinary (even when we're used to seeing many similar ones)
[12:11] <mattbrejza> i bet i cant order a 20p component from that site and get it by 9-11am the next day
[12:12] <mattbrejza> and it only cost me 20p in total :P
[12:12] <daveake> Yeah I'm really please. Best pix since CLOUD7 (the one that photographed Darkside's flight)
[12:12] <daveake> +d
[12:12] <cuddykid> what megapixel is the pi camera?
[12:12] <daveake> Best pix /of mine/, I mean
[12:12] <daveake> 5
[12:12] <HixWork> have you got a farnell account mattbrejza
[12:13] <mattbrejza> yea
[12:13] <HixWork> so no £20 min then?
[12:13] <daveake> Though possibly it was upscaling - there was a bug fix on Friday and I'm not sure I got it
[12:13] <mattbrejza> also get a 17% discount
[12:13] <mattbrejza> nope
[12:13] <HixWork> git [not hub]
[12:15] <mattbrejza> you might manage to open a trade account and get no minimum order though
[12:16] <HixWork> "Postage and packing is free for all online orders worth £40.00 or more, with a mainland UK delivery address. For smaller orders the charge is still only £3.95 for standard Royal Mail delivery."
[12:17] <mattbrejza> farnell?
[12:17] <HixWork> nope that Toby site
[12:18] <mattbrejza> oh right
[12:18] <HixWork> not tried farnell for a trade account, but bet they won't do it
[12:18] <HixWork> I'll try though
[12:18] <mattbrejza> their homepage says free over £30
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[12:32] <HixWork> This is pretty neat http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-22657086
[12:38] <griffonbot> @adamcudworth: if anyone is interested in sending up an 'experiment' onboard the HABE Lab - there is still time - tweet me if interested! #ukhas [http://twitter.com/adamcudworth/status/339360089871900673]
[12:39] <chrisstubbs> HixWork, that reminds me. Thought you would like this: http://bbc.in/10xnGNz
[12:40] <chrisstubbs> 100% essex
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[12:45] Nick change: chrisstubbs -> csaway
[12:49] <griffonbot> @xranby: RT @daveake: Full set of hi-res images from Pi In The Sky flight 6 http://t.co/ERL3LRGjFL #UKHAS #raspberry_pi [http://twitter.com/xranby/status/339362787258138624]
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[13:00] <griffonbot> @daveake: Pi In The Sky 6 written up at El Reg http://t.co/UbB8SBhJZT #raspberry_pi #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/339365466814435329]
[13:03] <cuddykid> Dave noted: "If you have to go to Swindon it's best to do it from 39km whilst looking somewhere else."
[13:03] <cuddykid> ha
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[13:03] <daveake> Yeah, I like feeding Lester with quotes :)
[13:09] <griffonbot> @TALGroup: Earth, as seen by Raspberry Pi camera attached to weather balloon: http://t.co/NWixGo7vyU #raspberry_pi #UKHAS http://t.co/6GvIMk6NiJ [http://twitter.com/TALGroup/status/339367784880410625]
[13:09] <griffonbot> @2e0sql: RT @daveake: Pi In The Sky 6 written up at El Reg http://t.co/UbB8SBhJZT #raspberry_pi #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/2e0sql/status/339367941529276416]
[13:10] <daveake> Blimey even I'm getting fed up with the RTs :p
[13:12] <eroomde> there was talk of turning off RT on griffonbot
[13:12] <eroomde> they're just noise
[13:16] <daveake> Agreed, and that would be good
[13:16] <UpuWork> I'll kill the bot for an hour or two
[13:16] <daveake> Sometimes I skip the #UKHAS tag on my tweets just because I know the RTs will spam the channel
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[13:17] <daveake> sore botty
[13:17] <eroomde> i'm not sure that's a solution
[13:17] <eroomde> false positives might be less bad than no postivies at all
[13:19] <daveake> Well, for example, I do it for launch announcements because those go in the mailing list anyway
[13:19] <eroomde> i mean killing griffonbot
[13:19] <daveake> But yes would be nice not to worry aboutthe RTs
[13:19] <daveake> Oh
[13:19] <daveake> Yes true :)
[13:20] <UpuWork> just needs to filter out RT's
[13:20] <eroomde> yus
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[14:28] <ibanezmatt13> ping UpuWork
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[14:31] <ibanezmatt13> I've been trying to work out how to interlace GPS transmission with SSDV image transmission. If I want to have my GPS always transmit every 60 seconds, how can I stop and start the transmission of packets?
[14:32] <fsphil> just send a string between each packet
[14:32] <ibanezmatt13> that makes sense :)
[14:33] <fsphil> that would give you a position every 10 seconds roughly
[14:33] <fsphil> does slow down the image transfer slightly
[14:33] <ibanezmatt13> that's quite logical; never thought of that
[14:33] <daveake> Yeah, but not a massive amount. Go for that as it's simple
[14:33] <fsphil> yea
[14:33] <fsphil> ssdv doesn't care what's between packets
[14:34] <fsphil> or even that they be in order
[14:34] <daveake> The telemetry can be quite short
[14:35] <ibanezmatt13> yah I only really need altitude, time, lat, lon and lock.
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[14:36] <ibanezmatt13> I have hooked up an LED to the serial and I can see it flickering when I transmit packets. It's quite cool :)
[14:39] <fsphil> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=449d7c909f6df4301aa79d6f5b3b6b724d08f621
[14:40] <fsphil> early prediction so inaccurate. but would be nice
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[14:40] <ibanezmatt13> That would be pretty good :)
[14:41] <ibanezmatt13> I'm running these two programs simultaneously: https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5663226 https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5318252
[14:41] <fsphil> it might happen
[14:41] <ibanezmatt13> hopefully
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[15:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> Anybody in a position to check and see if the Google Earth link is working OK from the tracker? I'm not getting any data after the initial tracker file has loaded ?
[15:28] Nick change: Guest34459 -> nick_
[15:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah ha its started working again ...
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[15:50] <Guest54262> Mr Coxon around?....
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[15:51] <Babs> Hix - dropped you a file but its large, let me know if it gets through
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[15:56] <MGAerospace> hi to all, should i make an order on randomsolution but i can't contact them because they don't answer to my emails
[15:57] <MGAerospace> they are closed?
[15:58] <UpuWork> hey MGAerospace
[15:58] <UpuWork> I'll PM you the mail address he may be out on jobs
[15:59] <UpuWork> I'm sure he will respond when he's back
[15:59] <UpuWork> ok I'm afk now
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[16:01] <_Matt>
[16:01] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[16:01] Nick change: _Matt -> Guest43267
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[16:02] <eroomde> michael qintana?
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[16:07] <Guest43267> Anyone know how I can contact James Coxon?...
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[16:10] <Guest43267> No?...
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[16:11] <craag> Guest43267: He has an email address on the wiki
[16:11] <craag> Dunno how up to date it is though
[16:11] <Guest43267> is it something like jacoxon@.....
[16:11] <craag> yeah
[16:11] <MGAerospace> ok
[16:11] <Guest43267> No response from that. Perhaps he's on hol?
[16:12] <craag> The other place to look is the google group
[16:12] <craag> But yes, he probably has exams, etc at the moment
[16:12] <Guest43267> Who are the other "chiefs" of UKHAS?
[16:12] <craag> Depends what type of 'chief' you are after
[16:13] <HixWork> Big Chief balloon drifting into forest
[16:13] <craag> afaik there's no real leadership, just people who take the time to set stuff up and manage it
[16:13] <Guest43267> erm... issues related to the group in general really.
[16:13] <Guest43267> I know it's a "tight" community
[16:14] <craag> We're very open to anyone
[16:15] <Guest43267> Yes I know, and that's how Ive managed to get a project nearing the stages of launch.. with the help from you guys. I couldnt have done it without you
[16:15] <Guest43267> but at the same time
[16:16] <Guest43267> I know that theres a general attitude towards letting people find their own way
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[16:16] <Guest43267> i.e. lots of people buying "off the shelf" kits could damage our hobby
[16:16] <Guest43267> Am I right?...
[16:16] <craag> There is, we want people to understand what they're doing, and potential consequences (however remote).
[16:17] <mfa298> I think the only real concern is that if there's a cheap off the shelf way to send up a balloon people would do it without understanding the regulations they need to follow.
[16:17] <mfa298> So you'd potentially get people sending up a huge balloon from central london without understanding the risks.
[16:17] <Guest43267> Totally agree, and having started my project not even knowing what an Arduino was, I appreciate that attitude entirely
[16:18] <mfa298> (as an example)
[16:19] <Guest43267> In James' absence then, can I get the opinion of you guys re my query?
[16:19] <craag> Sure, it's a free channel.
[16:19] <Guest43267> Thanks...
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[16:20] <LazyLeopard> Well, that and not wanting to completely swamp the NOTAM administrators... ;)
[16:20] <Guest43267> After doing some tracking, and then attending the annual conference last year, I was hooked and was dead keen to build my own kit and "have a go".
[16:20] <Babs> it would have been a lot easier for me to send up a massive balloon from central london on Sunday
[16:20] <Guest43267> So I did...
[16:21] <Guest43267> With lots of help from people on here
[16:21] <Babs> so sometimes there are downsides to knowing how it all works ;-)
[16:21] <Guest43267> I plan to launch sometime in the next 6 - 8 weeks.
[16:22] <craag> cool
[16:22] <craag> (I'm the guy who was at the conference with the jiffy-bag payload btw)
[16:22] <Guest43267> Im funding the whole thing through my small business, and the payload will be carrying two mascot teddies representing two local charities.
[16:23] <Guest43267> If we're lucky enough to get the payload and teddies back, they will be raffled/auctioned off. Plus people can sponsor them too.
[16:23] <Guest43267> The local rag and radio have shown an interest
[16:23] <craag> sounds awesome!
[16:24] <Guest43267> The newspaper article went out a few weeks back and really helped generate awareness for the cause
[16:24] <Guest43267> Here's my query....
[16:24] <Guest43267> Tomorrow, I do a local BBC radio interview
[16:24] <craag> :O
[16:24] <Guest43267> I want to know if its a good idea to mention the group, and if so, to what extent, if Im asked
[16:25] <Guest43267> I dont want every kid listening to flood the site!
[16:25] <Guest43267> assuming they're interested ofcourse
[16:25] <Guest43267> you know what I mean...
[16:25] <HixWork> I can't see an issue with that. The RPi event linked to UKHAS with noticable effect on visitor figures
[16:26] <craag> Yeah spacenear.us is well armoured now.
[16:26] <HixWork> those interested stayed others drifted off
[16:26] <craag> No need to worry about that.
[16:26] <Guest43267> If Im asked how it all works then obviously things like the tracker & FlDigi are very important.
[16:26] <mfa298> I think daveake probably manages to bring in good stress testing of the systems with the RPi flights.
[16:26] <Guest43267> Im anticipating this question....
[16:26] <Guest43267> So Matt, what do people need to do if they want to get involved with this?
[16:27] <craag> DO you have a website/blog for this?
[16:27] <mfa298> With describing how it works on the radio you probably need to keep the description fairly simple and maybe point them towards the ukhas site for more details.
[16:27] <Guest43267> I could say - we need as many listeners as we can so everyone buy a 70cm radio and download FlDig!!!!
[16:27] <craag> If so, point some links at the tracking guides on the ukhas wiki.
[16:27] <Guest43267> Thats a good idea
[16:27] <HixWork> worth mentioning that you can use cheap dongles and free software to track
[16:28] <eroomde> i'll give you cheap dongle
[16:28] <HixWork> for people who wanted to test the water
[16:28] <Guest43267> Great idea
[16:28] <craag> gotta run, good luck with the interview though Guest43267 !
[16:28] <Guest43267> thanks craag
[16:28] <daveake> mfa298 True :-). And I think the server load, even with the Pi lot watching, was "meh"
[16:28] <mfa298> but remember most people listening to the radio broadcast probably don't care about the technical side of how it works so you want simple terms they'll understand
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[16:29] <Guest43267> I'll keep it simple, and if you think its cool to broadcast a link to the beginner page of the wiki then Ill do that
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[16:31] <HixWork> tbh you just need to tell them to google "uk high altitude society" as the first thing that comes up is the site and a link to the beginners guide below it
[16:31] <mfa298> I'd probably only go as far as saying "people all over the country track the flights using a radio reciever (that can just be a cheap usb dongle) and some free software. More details can be found on our blog."
[16:31] <Guest43267> Incidentally, this will be my first launch. I was nervous to start with, but now that the local paper & radio want to be there - theres even more pressure. If anyone lives in the SouthEast and would like to help - Id be really grateful
[16:31] <HixWork> where are you based?
[16:32] <Guest43267> I'm in Essex but Im guessing I'll need to move across / up country for the launch, pending the predictor readings??
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[16:33] <HixWork> snap. Just outside Epping, chrisstubbs has had permission from Chelmsford, though it's reliant on wind and invariably thats over the north sea
[16:34] <Guest43267> Im actually in Chelmsford. I dont mind travelling out of county if it means I satnd a chance of getting my kit back!
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[16:37] <Guest43267> Thanks for your help guys.
[16:38] <HixWork> nps
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[16:59] <x-f> oho, 52 people tracked BABSHAB
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[17:05] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[17:35] Nick change: Upu- -> Upu
[17:37] <WILLdude> Trying to get this damn ublox working again.
[17:37] <WILLdude> It's a shitload of fun!
[17:37] <WILLdude> Seriously.
[17:37] <WILLdude> Hours spent trying to figure out what the fuck is wrong with it.
[17:37] <WILLdude> Never getting anywhere.
[17:38] <WILLdude> It's so enjoyable.
[17:38] <Upu> Will watch the language
[17:38] <Upu> pls
[17:38] <WILLdude> Sorry.
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[17:38] <WILLdude> Waiting for the arduino exe to respond.
[17:38] <WILLdude> Such fun!
[17:39] <Upu> what are you trying to do ?
[17:39] <WILLdude> Getting my ublox back up and running.
[17:40] <WILLdude> Thus far, I have concluded that the issue is it's not entering the GPS.available loop.
[17:40] S_Mark (~S_Mark@79-75-88-210.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:40] <Upu> thats not the GPS
[17:40] <Upu> thats the Arduino code
[17:40] <Upu> step back and lets ascertain if the module is working at all
[17:40] <WILLdude> OK.
[17:41] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/BO-M6ALC%20Instructions.pdf
[17:41] <WILLdude> BTW, I've tested it and last time I tested GPS.available was equal to 63.
[17:41] <WILLdude> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/BO-M6ALC%20Instructions.pdf
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[17:41] <WILLdude> Ooops.
[17:41] <Upu> Follow getting started to the letter
[17:41] <WILLdude> So it's transmitting something.
[17:44] <WILLdude> Looking good, the TX light is blinking.
[17:44] <WILLdude> Yep, working.
[17:44] <Upu> ok so the GPS is fine
[17:45] <Upu> so issue with code
[17:45] <WILLdude> http://pastie.org/7975622
[17:45] <WILLdude> That's it
[17:45] <Upu> where does it stop ?
[17:46] <WILLdude> The gps.available loop.
[17:47] <Upu> what does it output ?
[17:47] <WILLdude> gps.available is equal to 64, I've tested.
[17:47] <WILLdude> Nothing.
[17:47] <WILLdude> I could add an else statement?
[17:48] <Upu> have you got the RX & TX the right way round ?
[17:48] <nigelvh_> If GPS.available is equal to 64 he's getting data and the buffer is full.
[17:48] <nigelvh_> I'd guess he's not actually reading data.
[17:48] <nigelvh_> (having not looked at the code)
[17:49] <WILLdude> Upu: Yeah.
[17:49] <WILLdude> I'll just test the buffer again.
[17:49] <Upu> declare d at the top ?
[17:49] <WILLdude> How?
[17:49] <Upu> char d;
[17:50] <Upu> above void setup
[17:50] <Upu> http://pastie.org/7975645
[17:50] <WILLdude> Ooh.
[17:50] <Upu> and just dump everything out
[17:50] <Upu> warning : you'll get nulls
[17:50] <WILLdude> I got stuff.
[17:50] <WILLdude> But it is gobbledegook
[17:50] <Upu> yeah but should be something in it
[17:51] <WILLdude> My previous code is TXing.
[17:51] <S_Mark> I think I had this problem, and what nigelvh_ says is true, you need to do into softwareserial.h and up the buffer from 64 to 128
[17:51] <S_Mark> go*
[17:51] <WILLdude> But it's rubbish.
[17:51] <Upu> back soon
[17:51] <S_Mark> you on windows WILLdude?
[17:51] <mfa298> as a possibly silly question what does gps.available actually return and does it evaluate as a boolean true ?
[17:52] <WILLdude> S_Mark: Yea
[17:53] <S_Mark> shut arduino down, go to where it is installed, find softwareserial in your library folder, and at the top somewhere of softwareserial.h there is a buffer set to 64, change it to 128
[17:53] <WILLdude> TXing bull****
[17:55] <WILLdude> Heh
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[17:55] <WILLdude> Trying that ATM.
[17:55] <WILLdude> Hi daveake.
[17:55] <daveake> hiya
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[17:56] <WILLdude> There's an article on the Pi in this month's wire.
[17:56] <WILLdude> *wired
[17:56] <WILLdude> I wonder if it'll mention you. ;)
[17:56] <WILLdude> S_Mark: TXing rubbish still.
[17:57] <daveake> Not that I'm aware of
[17:57] <Upu> comment out the switch to 4800 baud and the subsequent switch to 4800 baud
[17:57] <Upu> and remove power from the module
[17:59] <S_Mark> anyone know where I can get Visual studio 2012 for free without being a student?
[17:59] <WILLdude> thepiratebay.is
[17:59] <WILLdude> ?
[18:00] <jonsowman> let's not advertise places for illegally downloading software on this channel please
[18:00] <mfa298> I think you can get an express version of some of the tools for free from MS
[18:01] <Randomskk> http://vim.org
[18:01] <WILLdude> Sorry.
[18:02] <S_Mark> ok cool I will have a look thanks
[18:02] <mfa298> S_Mark: try http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/eng/products/visual-studio-express-products
[18:02] <WILLdude> Upu: Do you have any idea how to get W7 cheaply? (legally)
[18:02] <Upu> nah they are making it super hard to get it now
[18:02] <mfa298> if you really need visual studio (rather than a very good text editor)
[18:02] <Upu> they just want people on Windows 8 which is bleurgh
[18:02] <S_Mark> lol
[18:03] <Upu> afk again
[18:03] <mfa298> I've not found Win8 to be as bad as people make it out to be - Although I don't often look at the metro screen
[18:04] <WILLdude> Upu: I guess I can stretch to Windows 8.
[18:04] <WILLdude> I have a copy on my laptop.
[18:04] <WILLdude> Can I transfer it?
[18:05] <mfa298> WILLdude: there used to be various student deals for windows and other software - although some needed an existing version to upgrade
[18:05] <mfa298> WILLdude: unless you have a retail version of windows (unlikely) it's not transferable
[18:05] <WILLdude> I don't think I'm considered a student.
[18:05] <WILLdude> I upgraded.
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[18:08] <mfa298> The cheapest way I know of for getting a new copy of windows is an OEM license which may need to be bought with some hardware
[18:08] <WILLdude> Ugh
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[18:11] <WILLdude> Err
[18:11] <WILLdude> ???
[18:11] <WILLdude> hah
[18:11] <mfa298> from a quick look that license term (about buying it with hardware) might not apply any more.
[18:12] <WILLdude> Hmm
[18:12] <mfa298> Oddly Win8 OEM from Software4Students costs more than getting Win8 OEM from Scan.
[18:12] <WILLdude> There are dodgy ebay ones.
[18:12] <WILLdude> What's OEM?
[18:12] <mfa298> it's £70 from scan - which is roughly what I'd expect
[18:13] <WILLdude> I guess I can manage 70 quid.
[18:14] <mfa298> OEM is the version for system builders and people who build their own PC's (which is why you used to have to buy it with some hardware)
[18:14] <WILLdude> I do have to convince my dad first.
[18:14] <nigelvh_> You might check if newegg.com still has win7 oem licenses.
[18:14] <WILLdude> About building on a barebones PC.
[18:15] <mfa298> the idea is that the system builder provides the windows support rather than MS - The retail version costs more but I think you might then get some free support calls to MS.
[18:15] <WILLdude> IDC tbh.
[18:15] <WILLdude> :)
[18:16] <WILLdude> I don't need MS support. I have Upu.
[18:16] <WILLdude> That sounded wrong.
[18:17] <mfa298> I don't think many people get the retail version. If you're building a PC you should know enough to be able to use google to get help.
[18:20] <Tiger^> actually, you can't use win7 OEM when building your own PC.
[18:20] <Tiger^> you could with win xp and you can with win8, just not 7.
[18:20] <nigelvh_> Yes you can. I did.
[18:20] <Tiger^> oh, sure you can :)
[18:20] <Tiger^> but the license explicitly forbids it.
[18:21] <nigelvh_> That's crap.
[18:21] <WILLdude> Hah
[18:21] <nigelvh_> That's like saying your car can't go faster than 70mph because the speed limit is 70
[18:21] <WILLdude> Do terrorists facepalm when it asks if they are involved in terrorism on their ESTA form?
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[18:21] <WILLdude> Didn't think so.
[18:27] <daveake> My chase car never goes above 70 :p
[18:28] <nigelvh_> Yes, my car "never" goes above 70 either.
[18:28] <daveake> The uploaded chase car data can't be wrong ....
[18:29] <mfa298> you're talking in real units of m/s right? I don't think my car can even get to 70 in that case.
[18:29] <nigelvh_> miles per hour because I live in UHMEHRIKUH
[18:29] <daveake> In that case neither can mine :)
[18:30] Nick change: csaway -> chrisstubbs
[18:30] <chrisstubbs> Oo another chelmsfordian on the scrollback
[18:31] <number10> thats three of you chrisstubbs
[18:32] <chrisstubbs> blimey, I have competition
[18:32] <chrisstubbs> aha
[18:32] <number10> wasnt one launch just down the road from you
[18:32] <chrisstubbs> Yep, and I managed to completley miss it :(
[18:33] <K9JKM> Found this but ya gotta speak Polish ...
[18:33] <K9JKM> http://southgatearc.org/news/may2013/ham_radio_picnic_video.htm#.UaT4ItimWi4
[18:33] <K9JKM> Balloon launch in Poland
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[18:34] <chrisstubbs> Shame I missed the guy, would have been happy to help. If he reappears feel free to put him in contact :)
[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:35] <Steffanx> LO
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[18:42] Nick change: seva_ -> seva
[18:56] <cn8dn> re to install debian
[18:56] <cn8dn> cusf-landing-prediction
[18:59] <WILLdude> Can most poles speak english?
[19:00] <arko> Yo yo
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[19:10] <Upu> evening jcoxon
[19:13] <jcoxon> evening
[19:13] <jcoxon> am back
[19:15] <jcoxon> whats been happening?
[19:15] <jcoxon> just gone through 150 emails in my inbox
[19:16] <Upu> been away myself
[19:16] <Upu> good time ?
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[19:17] <jcoxon> yeah, was hard work
[19:17] <jcoxon> :-)
[19:17] <jcoxon> not really relaxing
[19:17] <jcoxon> but amazing
[19:17] <Upu> can imagine
[19:17] <WILLdude> Upu: So do you have any ideas on how to legally get W7 or W8 cheaply?
[19:17] <Upu> define cheap ?
[19:18] <Upu> you can buy Win 8 from MS for not much
[19:18] <jcoxon> aren't their student deals?
[19:19] <arko> Msdn
[19:20] <mattbrejza> dreamspark?
[19:21] <arko> Oh yeah
[19:23] <WILLdude> Upu: Affordable by me :)
[19:23] <WILLdude> I gues 70 quid isn't bad.
[19:23] <Upu> just stick with what you have
[19:23] <WILLdude> thepirate*** does it cheaper.
[19:24] <WILLdude> Upu: I am hopefully getting a new PC though.
[19:24] <Upu> anyway topic Will you're off it
[19:24] <WILLdude> Sorry.
[19:24] <WILLdude> It's slightly relevant.
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> I saw an interesting phenomenon
[19:27] <chrisstubbs> black and decker 12v dc power supply that puts out 20v ac
[19:27] <chrisstubbs> that can go in the bin
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> on my new board I read Analogue Pin A3 and of course it floated around randomly
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> now I soldered that screw terminal to it to connect to the sensor later, and now the floating is much narrower
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. it only floats in a range of 5 bits or so
[19:28] <mattbrejza> youve made yourself a charge sensor
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> just without the amplifier and so on, right?
[19:29] <mattbrejza> although ADCs dont have a very high input impedance
[19:29] <mattbrejza> so maybe something else is going on
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> will have a look at it again
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[19:31] <mattbrejza> its nothing to worry about, strange stuff happens when you leave things floating
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> thanks mattbrejza
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, did you see my new payload board?
[19:40] <Upu> linky Lunar_Lander
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
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[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/u/c/t/5yveyg-kqzc71-rzxn/IMG0087.jpeg
[19:43] <Upu> breadboard v2
[19:43] <Upu> we need to teach you Eagle :)
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[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[19:45] <nigelvh_> Eagle is like the head cheerleader. Damn is she stupid and a pain to deal with, but totally worth it.
[19:45] <Upu> lol
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:46] <nigelvh_> You're welcome.
[19:47] <nigelvh_> In all seriousness though, learn eagle. Sparkfun has a few good tutorial videos that should get you started.
[19:48] <nigelvh_> Making PCBs is SOOOO worthwhile. I can't imagine going back to making all my stuff on protoboards.
[19:49] <S_Mark> nigelvh_ - once to have the eagle file - then what do you do with it? lol
[19:49] <S_Mark> you*
[19:49] <craag> Also it makes the projects look a lot more impressive, once you've managed to convince them that you made it yourself ;)
[19:49] <S_Mark> etch it yourself?
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[19:49] <nigelvh_> Depending on the board I will either etch it myself or send it off.
[19:50] <S_Mark> who to?
[19:50] <ibanezmatt13> Evening :) https://www.dropbox.com/s/ooeeq4cr4mh0s24/WP_20130528_193631Z.mp4 there's everything working nicely :)
[19:50] <nigelvh_> I use a few different places depending on the project. Oshpark is a good one, pcbfabexpress for faster stuff, goldpheonix for larger runs.
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh_, yeah, I mean I can draw schematics
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> but then there is the BRD file and routing
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> actually I have made a adaptor board for the HIH-6121
[19:51] <nigelvh_> It's not that terrible
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> I probably will get it on friday from the university of applied sciences who made it for me
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> and see what it looks like
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> By the way, when I have my GPS, what must I do to it to get it working; i.e, will I have to solder some headers onto it or will they already be on it or... ?
[19:54] <ibanezmatt13> ping UpuWork
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[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[19:56] <S_Mark> hello
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> just watching the Stratodean Two video
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> "The Camera was boiling?
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh_, http://s.gullipics.com/image/u/d/8/5yveyg-kqzdvq-h0n/Bildschirmfotovom20130528215543.png my first board attempt
[19:57] <nigelvh_> Not bad at all.
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[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, how are you today?
[20:02] <S_Mark> good thank you, ah yeah the video lol
[20:02] <S_Mark> better image quality this time though
[20:02] <S_Mark> !
[20:03] OZ1SKY_Brian (~Brian@x1-6-20-4e-7f-c8-44-7a.k599.webspeed.dk) joined #highaltitude.
[20:03] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[20:04] <Upu> wanderer returns
[20:04] <Upu> evening Brian
[20:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi Anthony
[20:04] <Upu> hows the house move going ?
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: Hi :) I've sent you an email.
[20:05] <OZ1SKY_Brian> its going ok, im here, but still stuff to do, and antennas/radios is still abit on standby.
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[20:06] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Planing on a tower, just need to find out how the bulding permit should be put together, before sending it off to city hall.
[20:06] <OZ1SKY_Brian> how are things your way?
[20:06] <Upu> no probs ibanezmatt13
[20:07] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks :)
[20:07] <Upu> define evening we close @ 5.30 :)
[20:07] <ibanezmatt13> one sec
[20:07] <Upu> good Brian, sort tower out we want to send some your way :)
[20:07] <Upu> back in 5
[20:08] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Upu yes i miss radio, need to get something going soon. Right now i just have a 5band vertical and a 70cm beam h-pol up. I need more, lots more. hi
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> hello OZ1SKY_Brian
[20:09] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi lunar
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, yeah :)
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> anybody any idea how to open a private session with someone on here?
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[20:10] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: most irc clients you use /msg <nick> Message
[20:11] <mfa298> like: /msg ibanezmatt13 Hello
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[20:11] <ibanezmatt13> is that a private message?
[20:12] <mfa298> that example isn't but it's what I'd type if I wanted to say "Hello" just to you.
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[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> I had a separate window with somebody before, I just wondered how they did it?
[20:12] <mfa298> Private messages should appear as a seperate window/tab (or similar)
[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> for me they appear in the same tab
[20:13] <mfa298> that's probably what they did. The web chat function might have a better way of doing it. I've not used it myself so I don't know how it works
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> ok :)
[20:15] <chrisstubbs> daveake, there was a reference to the tardis payload in this months WIRED magazine btw :)
[20:15] <chrisstubbs> just skim read it, didnt find any details though :(
[20:16] <daveake> ah didn't know ta :)
[20:17] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake
[20:18] <chrisstubbs> Just uploading some pics for you, possibly not worth buying and framing though :P
[20:19] <Upu> hi ibanezmatt13
[20:19] <ibanezmatt13> My Dad says he can't collect before 5:30 but could probably get there for 6-7. Is there any other place he could collect from?
[20:20] <chrisstubbs> daveake, http://bit.ly/17o0VjQ http://bit.ly/17o0ZA9
[20:22] <daveake> Cheers, I'll save my money :p
[20:25] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: I think collection would be easier anyway :)
[20:25] <Upu> not really ibanezmatt13
[20:25] <Upu> shall I just post it tomorrow ?
[20:26] <ibanezmatt13> Will the post office let you?
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[20:27] <ibanezmatt13> will it have the header installed?
[20:27] <Upu> yes I'll sort that out
[20:27] <Upu> and post tomorrow
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[20:27] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, that would be perfect :) Cheers
[20:28] <anerDev> Hi guys !
[20:29] <anerDev> http://spaceinvideos.esa.int/esalive Luca's Parmitano Launch
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[20:30] <jshriver> greetings :)
[20:31] <anerDev> 20 seconds !
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[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, great to see that Stratodean is Sheep tested now
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:32] <S_Mark> haha, glad that it didn't land on one!
[20:33] <anerDev> Go Luca ! =D
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[20:36] <anerDev> I think that they use RTTY modulation ! LOL
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[21:09] <chrisstubbs> Evening S_Mark
[21:10] <S_Mark> Hey hows it going
[21:10] <S_Mark> hmm might have a nickname change
[21:10] <S_Mark> how controversial is that?
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> Meh
[21:10] <S_Mark> lol
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> Don't do it more than once a day
[21:10] <chrisstubbs> S_<tab> is hard work :P
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[21:11] <S_Mark> lol. Been up to much chrisstubbs
[21:11] <chrisstubbs> crawling about in the loft trying to get this darned new server to work, all working fine and as soon as i put in the the loft one of the hard drives failed
[21:12] <S_Mark> ah always the way!!
[21:12] <chrisstubbs> then spent hours fighting with drivers for 2 video capture cards. death to the guy that made those
[21:12] <chrisstubbs> possibly not death
[21:12] <chrisstubbs> eternal tech support
[21:13] <S_Mark> all sorted now?
[21:13] <chrisstubbs> Hows stratodean 3 looking?
[21:13] <chrisstubbs> yeah pretty much
[21:14] <S_Mark> haha, having a week off :p
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[21:17] <chrisstubbs> Aha :P
[21:17] <chrisstubbs> I need to try the new cheapo boards soon
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[21:20] <S_Mark> whens the plan for that?
[21:21] <chrisstubbs> Tossing up if i should launch it on its own, or wait and launch it with the pi
[21:23] <S_Mark> you'd be running with two experimental boards wouldn't you?
[21:23] <S_Mark> risky
[21:23] <S_Mark> or no?
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[21:23] <chrisstubbs> Well two experimental boards is better than one ;)
[21:25] <Upu> just watching the video S_Mark looked windy
[21:25] <S_Mark> Hey Upu, yeah was when we were setting up, but settled down at launch
[21:25] <Upu> yup seemed too
[21:26] <Upu> I guess that overlay was put on after the event ?
[21:26] <S_Mark> yes, matched with the telemetry from the sd card
[21:26] <S_Mark> using dashware
[21:26] <Upu> cool
[21:26] <Upu> lol at the ascent rate
[21:27] <S_Mark> I know haha!
[21:27] <Upu> been a while since I've seen one go up like that
[21:27] <Upu> lol Mini chase car
[21:27] <Upu> that is cool
[21:27] <S_Mark> Haha yeah that was Cassie's brother who came back to help us
[21:28] <S_Mark> Was a fun day, that video is also going in a local film festival
[21:28] <Upu> its nice to have more of a story to it
[21:29] <S_Mark> Yeah it is, takes a while to do though afterwards
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[21:31] <Upu> shame the UK is so cloudy when you can see in gaps its awesome
[21:31] <Upu> your payload is remarkably stable when falling
[21:32] <S_Mark> Yeah someone else mentioned that, I can only think that it is because it is fairly weighty at 1000g?
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> xD Caravan
[21:33] <Upu> dem hills!
[21:33] <Upu> heavy landing :)
[21:33] <Upu> oh cool you can see the parachute coming in afterwards thats acre
[21:33] <Upu> ace
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> and sheep
[21:34] <Upu> lol yes
[21:34] <Upu> haha at the sheep
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> btw Shaun the Sheep is a big hit in germany
[21:34] <S_Mark> Yeah it was a risk heading towards the beacons! But we thought it would be fun either way :p
[21:35] <S_Mark> Defo recommend a trip to brecon beacons, after the Forest of Dean of course :p
[21:35] <Upu> lol
[21:35] <Upu> 2 for 2 then nice
[21:35] <Upu> launching again ?
[21:36] <S_Mark> yes we will be I think, dont think the next one will be as quick to come around though
[21:37] <Upu> very good enjoyed that
[21:38] <S_Mark> Ah thanks! Takes ages to do but glad people like it after
[21:38] <Upu> yeah I can imagine the amount of work in there
[21:38] <nigelvh_> Hey Upu, this weekend I'll have three APRS flights going. Want a notice on friday, or flight docs or something?
[21:38] <Upu> just give me a yell nigelvh I'll set the scripts up
[21:38] <Upu> what time UTC is launch ?
[21:40] <nigelvh_> Umm, first is probably about 14:00UTC ish, second probably around 16-17:00, third probably 18-19:00 ish
[21:40] <nigelvh_> Saturday
[21:41] <Upu> yeah should be about
[21:41] <Upu> mail me the call signs
[21:42] <nigelvh_> Sent
[21:42] <nigelvh_> Hopefully that's the appropriate account.
[21:43] <Upu> got it
[21:44] <nigelvh_> Excellent
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[21:44] <nigelvh_> It's going to be a busy day for me...
[21:49] <iain_G4SGX> Question.. The telemetry string sent to the TX, what is its max length ? Will it exceed 250 chars? (For normal RTTY telemetry)
[21:50] <fsphil> don't believe there is a limit
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[21:50] <fsphil> there's certainly a practical limit
[21:50] schoppenhauer (~quassel@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer) joined #highaltitude.
[21:51] <nigelvh_> However, the longer the string, the more likely you are to run into a bit error that will invalidate your checksums.
[21:51] <schoppenhauer> hello!
[21:51] <iain_G4SGX> I need to work out how much RAM I need for the TX buffer
[21:51] <fsphil> it will depend on your payload
[21:51] <fsphil> hiya schoppenhauer
[21:52] <nigelvh_> You need to figure out what data you need to get down
[21:52] <fsphil> I normally use 100 bytes
[21:52] <fsphil> but I only really transmit position
[21:52] <nigelvh_> Yeah, I usually use a 128byte buffer.
[21:52] <schoppenhauer> I was planning a balloon flight for a while now, and just found out about UKHAS. Nice wiki you have!
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[21:53] <schoppenhauer> (so far I had to pick information from manual googling)
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> are you from Germany?
[21:53] <schoppenhauer> Lunar_Lander: yes
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> like me
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:53] <fsphil> there's something to be said about googling :)
[21:54] <schoppenhauer> fsphil: what do you mean?
[21:54] <schoppenhauer> Lunar_Lander: ah, from where? I am from munich.
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> Osnabruck
[21:54] <fsphil> schoppenhauer: I often see many questions that would be answered by a simple google
[21:54] <fsphil> people don't use it enough
[21:55] <fsphil> some people*
[21:55] <schoppenhauer> fsphil: well, I used it ... but the current problem I was investigating was about how to configure the parachute. and there are a lot of howtos for this when having model rockets ... and meteorologists apparently seem not to use parachutes at all...
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> btw you are lucky
[21:56] <schoppenhauer> fsphil: but the UKHAS wiki seems to have plenty of information
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> you are right at the pulse of balloon insurance :)
[21:56] <fsphil> the UK met office use parachutes iirc
[21:56] <S_Mark> thanks for the tweet upu!
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> you get it at the Allianz in Munich
[21:56] <Upu> welcome :)
[21:56] <schoppenhauer> Lunar_Lander: balloon insurance?
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> in germany you need flight insurance
[21:57] <schoppenhauer> oh. i did not know that (i knew i need a license by the dfs, but not about insurance)
[21:57] <fsphil> I will insure you for up to ¬5 damages Lunar_Lander
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> one moment schoppenhauer
[21:57] <schoppenhauer> Lunar_Lander: is this specialized haftpflicht?
[21:57] <fsphil> for the cheap price of ¬10/flight
[21:58] <mfa298> fsphil: I've been come accross people asking questions at interviews where the expected answer is google. Apparently the candidates never think of that as an answer
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> schoppenhauer, yea, one sec
[21:58] <fsphil> mfa298: I guess 'Binging' it wouldn't probably result in being escorted from the building
[21:58] <mfa298> probably
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> schoppenhauer, this is the website of "mclane" from Regensburg: http://www.pirnay.com/index.php/de/home/m-blog/14-blog-120726-genehmigungen
[21:59] <nigelvh_> Yeah, I've said a number of times in interviews that "I don't know what the exact syntax of that command is, the man page would tell me, or google"
[22:00] <mfa298> the time I heard of it one of the interviewers apparently had to prompt the candidate with something along the lines of "the obvious answer you're probably thinking of is the correct one"
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[22:01] <mfa298> nigelvh_: just don't use google to get the man page for find - the results probably arn't what you're looking for
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[22:01] <nigelvh_> Haha
[22:01] <fsphil> in your area?
[22:01] <nigelvh_> Throw a "linux" in front and you'll get good results.
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[22:02] <schoppenhauer> Lunar_Lander: do you know how much that costs? (the allianz homepage has ... strange categories)
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> we paid some 110 euro
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> but were insured for damages up to 1.5 mio.
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[22:03] <chrisstubbs> woah thats a lot of cash
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> yeaj
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> *yea
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> just call Mr. Hoffart (his number is on the insurance paper as you can see)
[22:03] <nigelvh_> "Lunar's balloon landed on my house and destroyed it. I'll take my 1.5million please&"
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> it landed in the river, there is proof for that
[22:04] <schoppenhauer> Lunar_Lander: ah thanks!
[22:04] <nigelvh_> My house was in the river before your balloon landed on it.
[22:04] <nigelvh_> Now it's gone.
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome
[22:04] <nigelvh_> Please send the check to america.
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> didn't know you lived in Lower Saxony nigelvh_
[22:04] <schoppenhauer> hm ... that was one question I was wondering ... what if the thing lands in a river, or in a sea?
[22:04] <nigelvh_> Living and having a house somewhere are different.
[22:05] <nigelvh_> Also, real and "real" are different as well.
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> schoppenhauer, we had luck, there were some workers with a boat nearby who helped us out
[22:06] <schoppenhauer> Lunar_Lander: ok. so it is generally a good idea to make the thing "swim"
[22:06] <schoppenhauer> Lunar_Lander: because divers will probably be harder to get.
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> use a styrofoam box
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:08] <schoppenhauer> yes, but it must have a hole to look through ... and the window must be water-resistant for it not to sink.
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[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> ah well
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[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> ours had a hole and the Canon camera lens was put through
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> no window
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> the lens got some water but none got in the box
[22:08] <nigelvh_> You don't need it to be water tight, foam will float fine.
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[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> and the camera was dry after 2 days
[22:09] <ibanematt13> Does anybody know of an antenna that can be mounted to the roof of a car?
[22:09] <chrisstubbs> ibanematt13, search for " 70cms magmount"
[22:09] <ibanematt13> ok, thanks :)
[22:09] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gn all
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[22:12] <ibanematt13> chrisstubbs: http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamantm/3243.html would that be ok?
[22:13] <chrisstubbs> Yeah its for the correct frequency
[22:13] <chrisstubbs> and an SMA plug on the end, neat. Will that fit your radio/SDR?
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> good night :)
[22:13] <ibanematt13> erm, done think so, but I guess I could change that
[22:14] <mfa298> ibanematt13: i think there are two versions one with pl258 and one with sma plugs
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[22:15] <ibanematt13> I'll check which one i need
[22:15] <mfa298> sma is the better one of the two
[22:15] <chrisstubbs> Oh sorry just skim read it. Thats correct
[22:15] <mfa298> i think your radio was a bnc connector so you'll need an adapter
[22:16] <ibanematt13> Yes it is, I'll just get an adapter
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[22:19] <chrisstubbs> Dont suppose anyone on here has made a DIY antenna rotator?
[22:20] <K9JKM> I got a TV rotor from ebay for $18
[22:20] <K9JKM> Have 144 and 440 yagis on it
[22:20] <chrisstubbs> wow
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[22:21] <chrisstubbs> I was thinking about making one out of a wiper motor and worm gear to get the speed down, but I will look into that
[22:21] <chrisstubbs> had no idea you could get tv ones
[22:21] <S_Mark> ibanematt13: http://www.stratodean.co.uk/2013/01/the-receiver-and-antenna.html
[22:21] <S_Mark> the link at the bottom is the one I have used successfully
[22:22] <mfa298> with the sort of weight most HAMs have on a rotator I'm not sure theres much scope for safely DIYing a rotator
[22:23] <chrisstubbs> I was thinking about having a yagi rotate about the mast, not turn the whole mast
[22:23] <ibanematt13> S_Mark: Thanks :)
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[22:24] <mfa298> that could be a cunning way of doing it.
[22:24] <nigelvh_> Generally you put a smaller mast on the rotator and put the yagi on that.
[22:24] <K9JKM> The 3-element 144 MHz yagi and 7-element 440 yagi aren't much more of a load than a TV antenna
[22:24] <S_Mark> no probs!
[22:25] <K9JKM> I have it at 20° fixed elevation ... this arrangement is useful for low orbit satellites, ISS, and also tracks balloon beacons
[22:26] <cuddykid> ping arko
[22:26] <S_Mark> night all
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[22:27] <nigelvh_> Someday when I have time and money to spare I'll build an XY rotator.
[22:27] <nigelvh_> That would be awesome.
[22:30] <chrisstubbs> I was wondering if you needed an adjustable elevation for hab tracking
[22:32] <cuddykid> http://imgur.com/Gp19nbX
[22:33] <K9JKM> The trajectory of the flight will likely spend 70-90% of its time at horizon to 20° elevation in respect to your station
[22:33] <K9JKM> That 10% of the time that it flies overhead of your station is not going to occur very often
[22:36] <nigelvh_> True, I mostly want it for satellites.
[22:37] <K9JKM> Here are the conditions for fixed elevation of low earth orbit satellites, please refer to:
[22:37] <K9JKM> http://aprs.org/LEO-tracking.html
[22:37] <chrisstubbs> I have a colinear which works well for the cambridge flights, but it would be cool to set somthing a little better up
[22:39] <K9JKM> LEO satellites are usually 10X higher in the sky than balloons at 30km so thinking "horizon" for most receiving applications is a moderately safe assumption
[22:39] <nigelvh_> I have done a good bit of receiving the POES satellites which are polar orbiters.
[22:39] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: one thing to bear in mind. A metal mast with a vertically polarised antenna may reduce how well the antenna works. Yagis are normally horizontally polarised for ham stuff
[22:39] <K9JKM> Special assumptions beyond that just mean you need to spend more money as the complexity increases
[22:39] <chrisstubbs> Ah yes
[22:40] <chrisstubbs> could it be offset to the side slightly with a plastic mount to avoid losses?
[22:40] <K9JKM> I have my yagis at 45° to the mast
[22:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its normal to use a fibreglass mast to get round the metal problem see here http://www.g8dhe.com/amateurradio/g8dhe/beams.jpg
[22:40] <chrisstubbs> That thing is a monster :P
[22:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> the Az rotater sits on the top of the telescopic, the El rotator fits on a 1 foot stub out the top
[22:41] <K9JKM> You can make cross-polarized yagis with phased feedline for circular polarization for more complexity and cost
[22:41] <arko> cuddykid: sup
[22:41] <cuddykid> hi arko
[22:41] <cuddykid> arko: just need to do the washing up - bb in 10
[22:41] <K9JKM> Ooo, beautiful setup
[22:41] <mfa298> Ive heard of people using a wooden broom handle as well as a mount
[22:41] <arko> kk
[22:41] <K9JKM> I use PVC pipe
[22:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its not that large! http://360.g8dhe.net/default.php?80820
[22:42] <K9JKM> PVC is too flexible for heavy antennas tho'
[22:43] <gonzo_> mine are on a horizontal cross boom, and the ends that go through the yagi are wooden extension pieces, of 30-odd-mm dowel
[22:43] <gonzo_> seems to work well
[22:43] <chrisstubbs> Broomstick :P
[22:43] <gonzo_> BIG broom.
[22:44] <K9JKM> I heard of a sawed off hockey stick used for a boom in Alaska
[22:44] <gonzo_> only prob is, the wood softens and the clamps go slack
[22:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> try http://www.wsplc.com/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww.wsplc.com%2facatalog%2fMasts.html&WD=pole%20fibreglass&PN=Poles_and_brackets.html%23a243#a243
[22:44] <chrisstubbs> Er this antenna im picking up.. they guy said its a 19 element tonna
[22:45] <chrisstubbs> that sounds absoutley massive
[22:45] <gonzo_> not taht big geally
[22:45] <gonzo_> really
[22:45] <LazyLeopard> 70cms?
[22:45] <gonzo_> once it's in the air, it will look like a tv ant
[22:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Thats the one on the left of my mast 19 ele Tonna
[22:46] <chrisstubbs> ah thanks Geoff-G8DHE
[22:46] <chrisstubbs> about 3m long he said?
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[22:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes I guess its about that long time since I needed to measure it!
[22:46] <LazyLeopard> Sounds about right
[22:46] <chrisstubbs> haha :)
[22:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not sure they are even available now
[22:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah yes they changed names http://www.f9ft.com/indexe.html
[22:48] <chrisstubbs> Yeah W&S do one for £94
[22:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.f9ft.com/indexe.html all the detail
[22:48] <chrisstubbs> a HAM has kindly offered it to me
[22:48] <Darkside> right
[22:48] <Darkside> we are getting ahead of the balloon
[22:48] <Darkside> then our man at the launch site will launch it
[22:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah you have to select it from the right menu
[22:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> 2.82m length 16.4 dBi
[22:49] <chrisstubbs> I want this thing in my life :P
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[22:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> It will look big on the ground, but none of my neighbours saw it grow when it went up ;-)
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[22:50] <chrisstubbs> do you have planning permission?
[22:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nope its been up some 20+ years no problems, nor at the house previous
[22:51] <chrisstubbs> I didnt bother with my x-50 but this yagi might make things a bit extreme
[22:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> actually its more like 30+
[22:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> Depends on the neigbhourhood how close/dense the housing etc. have you got a reasonable garden around it ?
[22:53] <chrisstubbs> we have a reasonably long garden
[22:53] <chrisstubbs> but our house is a bungalow, as are most of the others around it
[22:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> Mines 50 foot total and about 30 wide
[22:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> No point in going higher than the roof line anyway, thats always been my guide line mast to roof height aerials just above
[22:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> Right I'm off 73
[22:56] <chrisstubbs> Geoff-G8DHE, http://bit.ly/13XxqS2
[22:56] <chrisstubbs> ah okay, night! :)
[22:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> Do you mind Wife just finished having 4 implants ! I eoxpected there to be the glint of a diamond in each one for the price!
[22:57] <chrisstubbs> oh what
[22:57] <chrisstubbs> that linked to the wrong photo
[22:58] <chrisstubbs> http://www.flickr.com/photos/68579973@N02/8438340353/
[22:58] <chrisstubbs> stupid bitly
[22:58] <Darkside> balloon is being cut loose
[22:58] <cuddykid> arko: I'll catch you tomorrow as I'm shattered after having to wake up abnormally early for an exam this morning :P
[22:58] <arko> kk
[22:58] <chrisstubbs> Good luck Darkside :)
[22:58] <arko> go go go
[22:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah right more like it! Stick a small rotator on top of the mast, then stub mast to take Tonna and the X50 on the top only add
[22:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> another foot at most
[22:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> to the height
[22:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> 1.4m either side of the pole for the Tonna
[23:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Use glassfibre as you will want tothe Tonna vertical I expect for HAB
[23:00] <chrisstubbs> thanks Geoff-G8DHE thats given me a bit to think about
[23:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Have fun - good luck with the Exams and the ablloon those flying!
[23:01] <chrisstubbs> Knowing me I will be doing this on the cheap but its good to get an idea :)
[23:01] <chrisstubbs> arko: what happened to your pico?
[23:02] <arko> landed in the mohave
[23:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup my early aerials were a lot simpler until I played with the Sats for a while and needed the El rotator - gone
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[23:03] <arko> chrisstubbs: http://imgur.com/a/cOi2z
[23:03] <arko> yellow is habexpico
[23:03] <arko> blue is habex2 that we did 2 months ago
[23:04] <chrisstubbs> Nice :)
[23:04] <chrisstubbs> I was following it on spacenear.us for a bit but it stopped updating for me i think
[23:05] <chrisstubbs> The flight looked short at first until i remembered how big the US is :P
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[23:05] <arko> nice! Darkside just launched
[23:05] <arko> good luck dude
[23:06] <arko> chrisstubbs: yeah, the radio died at 50000ft then came back around 2000ft on its way back
[23:06] <chrisstubbs> Ah that will be why then! Must have gone to bed before it came back
[23:06] <chrisstubbs> Darkside, floater?
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[23:14] <Darkside> hrm
[23:14] <Darkside> not intended to be
[23:14] <Darkside> crap
[23:15] <arko> uh oh
[23:15] <chrisstubbs> Slow ascent, but it might get a move on
[23:15] <Darkside> yeah
[23:15] <Darkside> tis slowly going up
[23:15] <arko> thats moving far
[23:15] <Darkside> hrmm
[23:15] <Darkside> we're going to have to decide where to cut it
[23:16] <arko> NO! SLEEP! TILL MELBOURNE!
[23:16] <Darkside> lol
[23:16] <Darkside> screw that
[23:16] <Darkside> we have a cutdown
[23:16] <arko> haha
[23:16] <arko> i assume you dont want it to go into NSW
[23:17] <Darkside> no
[23:19] <Darkside> we'll likely wait until its past lake alexandrina
[23:19] <Darkside> then cut it
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[23:21] <nigelvh_> Darkside, what do you use as a receiver for your cutdown?
[23:21] <Darkside> RFM22B
[23:21] <nigelvh_> Makes sense.
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[00:00] --- Wed May 29 2013