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[00:30] <chrisstubbs> Arko around?
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[02:22] <arko> Supp
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[02:33] <mrShrimp> Hello, does anyone know whether or not the SoftwareSerial code on the uBlox 6 wiki page (http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox6) works with the module on a Software Serial TX and RX line, or do the timing errors in SS make it necessary to use the second code block on that page?
[02:35] <mrShrimp> I do not have a "UM232 Serial UART Development Module or equivalent", so I would like to be able to test the module with SS, but the last time I used SS with a GPS, it didn't work.
[02:36] <mrShrimp> Can I have some help please?
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[04:41] <Maxell> mrShrimp doesnt understand the concept timezones, I think.
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[05:54] <Chetic> or patience
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[07:03] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning :)
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[07:06] <ibanezmatt13> I'm gonna have a go at SSDV today. But first, I need to put an OS for my Pi onto an SD card. Shall I just use the standard Raspian or shall use another one?
[07:06] <Darkside> i think raspbian was ok
[07:06] <Darkside> it shouldnt depend on anything in particular
[07:06] <daveake> Latest Raspbian
[07:06] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'll do that now :)
[07:06] <daveake> That works just fine, and will control a webcam or the Pi cam
[07:07] <ibanezmatt13> I was thinking of getting the Pi cam; is it any good?
[07:07] <daveake> The SSDV side will run on anything so that doesn't care
[07:07] <daveake> What do you think? http://i.imgur.com/9H02fEU.jpg
[07:08] <ibanezmatt13> That's pretty damn good, did you use SSDV?
[07:08] <daveake> And apparently, there was a bug in the Pi Cam s/w (fixed on Friday but I wasn't told) which meant that full size images were actually smaller ones upscaled
[07:08] <Darkside> that'd be a saved image
[07:08] <daveake> Yes that's saved
[07:08] <Darkside> smaller images are sent down via ssdv
[07:08] <daveake> That'd take waaay too long over the radio
[07:09] <daveake> But it shows what the camera can do
[07:09] <ibanezmatt13> How long would say a 50% compressed JPEG take to be sent over radio?
[07:09] <ibanezmatt13> on averag
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[07:09] <daveake> Can't say
[07:09] <daveake> Depends on image size and content
[07:09] <daveake> and baud rate
[07:09] <daveake> Look at the samples from yesterday at http://ssdv.habhub.org/
[07:10] <ibanezmatt13> they really are excellent.
[07:10] <daveake> Where it says how many packets, multiply that by 256 that's how many bytes over the radio
[07:10] <daveake> Then calculate for your baud rate
[07:10] <number10> were most people using SDR dongles yesterday - anyone using an FT817
[07:10] <daveake> I was
[07:11] <number10> I found it really difficult to decode even though strong signal
[07:11] <daveake> It worked better than my FCD, however I wasn't using a habamp
[07:11] <ibanezmatt13> would I be able to use a 300 baud rate or must it be 50 for radio transmission?
[07:11] <number10> more so errors on the location string
[07:11] <daveake> Even the ICOM R10 decoded well in the car
[07:12] <daveake> for SSDV 300 is good
[07:12] <daveake> Don't use 50 waay too slow
[07:12] <ibanezmatt13> so 300 can be used for radio and GPS
[07:12] <daveake> Do the calcs yourself
[07:12] <number10> the belgium flight the other day was OK
[07:12] <daveake> yes
[07:12] <daveake> 600 is probably pushing it however with a lot of listeners yesterday it worked really well
[07:15] <ibanezmatt13> So at 300 baud with a 20 packet image, it would take about 17 seconds? That seems a bit quick to be right...
[07:16] <ibanezmatt13> And a 70 packet image would take about a minute. Really?
[07:17] <Darkside> much longer than that
[07:17] <Randomskk> baud is bits per second
[07:18] <ibanezmatt13> So at 300 bits per second, a 20 packet image (5120 bits) would take 5120/300 ?
[07:18] <number10> perfect day for a launch
[07:18] <daveake> Each byte is many bits (1 start, 8 data, say 2 stop) so that's a factor of 11 you need in your calcs
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[07:19] <daveake> I'm launched out
[07:19] <Randomskk> it looks like your 17 second figure was assuming 300 bytes per second, not bits per second
[07:19] <ibanezmatt13> that makes sense
[07:20] <Randomskk> a 20 packet (256 bytes/packet) image on 300 baud takes about 188 seconds
[07:20] <daveake> it's always good when reality makes sense :)
[07:20] <ibanezmatt13> How about, 20 packet image, 300 baud, 187 seconds?
[07:20] <Randomskk> you definitely start to appreciate how much data is in an image after decoding it at 300 baud
[07:20] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: correct (see just above)
[07:21] <ibanezmatt13> oh yes! I missed that. But I just multiplied the bytes by 11
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[07:23] <number10> dare I ask Randomskk ?
[07:23] <Randomskk> ?
[07:23] <ibanezmatt13> So my plan today is to use Git on my Pi to compile fsphil's SSDV program. I will then run "make" in whatever the directory it saves it in to get the one runnable file I need which could be in sbin or somewhere like that. That right?
[07:23] <Randomskk> oh
[07:23] <Randomskk> haha
[07:23] <number10> started?
[07:23] <Randomskk> computation finished
[07:24] <Randomskk> haven't started writing yet
[07:24] <Randomskk> about to though!
[07:24] <Randomskk> got like, 1 hour / page assuming I don't sleep or eat
[07:24] <number10> good - at your data rate it shouldnt take long - its just that first start bit
[07:24] <Randomskk> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URNw4U6as7c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91FvOw1HES4
[07:25] <daveake> ibanezmatt13: Almost. "git" just downloads the files to the Pi; make runs the compiler and linker to produce the executable
[07:25] <daveake> ^^ these are things you'll need to know
[07:25] <daveake> as it's a bit different to Python
[07:25] <ibanezmatt13> linker?
[07:25] <daveake> links things together :)
[07:26] <ibanezmatt13> ah :)
[07:26] <daveake> The SSDV program, like most others, is split into multiple source files
[07:26] <daveake> The compiler compiles each one
[07:26] <daveake> The linker combines the compiled files (object files) into a single executable file
[07:26] <ibanezmatt13> Something was mentioned yesterday about using GCC seen as it's a C program?
[07:26] <daveake> And here endeth the lesson :)
[07:26] <number10> it looks good Randomskk - not that I understand it - you would get extra marks for pretty
[07:27] <daveake> Yeah just type "make" it'll all happen for you
[07:27] <ibanezmatt13> thanks :)
[07:27] <ibanezmatt13> I'm gonna go get Pi set up now! :)
[07:27] <daveake> goodo
[07:27] <Randomskk> number10: :) sadly not sure many marks are for pretty
[07:27] <Randomskk> oh well
[07:28] <ibanezmatt13> I've got a nice Sandisk 16GB ultra 45 mb/s card, so it should be good enough ;)
[07:31] <number10> much more is happening compared to the video that you posted a couple or so days back
[07:32] <Randomskk> yes
[07:32] <Randomskk> the whole thing has "worked" (with reservations)
[07:32] <Randomskk> so now it's time to write it up
[07:32] <daveake> Best get started then :)
[07:32] <Randomskk> hehe
[07:32] <Randomskk> 55 hours til handin
[07:32] <Randomskk> 50 pages, 12k words
[07:33] <Randomskk> better get started indeed
[07:33] <daveake> who needs sleep?
[07:33] <Randomskk> not me!
[07:33] <daveake> Evidently!
[07:33] <number10> has jon completed his?
[07:33] <Randomskk> weeks ago
[07:34] <Randomskk> I mean he's still prodding the occasional footnote or touching up the abstract or something
[07:34] <number10> ah - he can cook for you today and keep nudging you when you drop off
[07:34] <daveake> So on the day that I uses a Pi Cam to take a pic of Land's End from 35km or so, someone else complained to the Pi foundation that all the photos he took with his came out green
[07:34] <Randomskk> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62498867/IMG_20130525_124221.jpg
[07:34] <daveake> He was advised to removed the green protective plastic ....
[07:34] <Randomskk> daveake: haha
[07:34] <x-f> haha
[07:34] <Randomskk> nicely done
[07:36] <number10> it must feel strange in a way - knowing that for jon anyway - thats you last piece of work ac CU
[07:36] <number10> +r
[07:37] <number10> at CU
[07:37] <number10> I best give up typing while the goings good
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[07:40] <daveake> True, this is good for you :-)
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[07:49] <ibanezmatt13> I have my Pi running, but I can't use a card reader to write the new OS to my card. So I'm using a card with Raspian but it has a load of junk on it. Is there a way of resetting the card so that only the OS is on it without actually putting it into a card reader.
[07:49] <ibanezmatt13> ?
[07:49] <daveake> Erm, how did Raspbian get on it?
[07:50] <ibanezmatt13> Well when I prepared the card a while back, I had a working card reader.
[07:50] <daveake> OK, so the "junk" is ion the Linux partition on the card?
[07:51] <ibanezmatt13> I think so
[07:51] <daveake> Well login to the Pi and delete said junk
[07:51] <ibanezmatt13> Is that "sudo apt-get remove" or something like that?
[07:52] <daveake> Well you haven't said what the junk is ...
[07:52] <number10> daveake: does the He from balloonheliem.co.uk come with some sort of standard balloon filler nozzle regulator or do you have ask?
[07:52] <ibanezmatt13> well things like MP3 files which I don't need
[07:52] <daveake> number10 Yes you get one you need to tell them which type
[07:52] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 Remove them with "rm"
[07:53] <daveake> Try not to delete the whole card :p
[07:53] <ibanezmatt13> just rm filename
[07:53] <number10> aha - daveake - I dont know what they are called
[07:53] <daveake> When you're done, do an apt-get update and apt-get upgrade
[07:53] <daveake> Well, ask the guy to show you and then decide which you think it's easy to attach a hose to :)
[07:54] <ibanezmatt13> ok. If I want to remove a whole directory (for a game which I don't need) is it apt-get remove?
[07:54] <daveake> NO
[07:54] <daveake> rm -rf <dir name>
[07:54] <daveake> apt-get is for installing / uninstalling
[07:54] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks :)
[07:54] <daveake> Your images never got "installed" so they can't get uninstalled
[07:55] <number10> I thought oyu had to tell them the sort when ordering before getting it delivered to a local depo
[07:55] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, i see that :)
[07:55] <daveake> Remember that "rm -rf" is an axe; be careful where you swing it
[07:55] <costyn> yea if you're unsure, don't use the 'f'
[07:55] <ibanezmatt13> it's not working
[07:55] <daveake> It removes a folder and everything in that folder including sub-folders
[07:56] <daveake> So doing this in the root, for all folders, can end in tears
[07:56] <ibanezmatt13> oh sorry, yes it's working
[07:56] <daveake> Shame you don't have a card reader
[07:56] <daveake> Very useful for backing up your SD card
[07:56] <daveake> So, erm, get one
[07:57] <costyn> yea, they're dirt cheap anyways
[07:57] <ibanezmatt13> well I do, but it's on my Dad's laptop and he's video conferencing til 12. :) So because I'm all ready to go, I thought I'd try it on here before I do it on the proper one. Makes sense really :)
[07:57] <ibanezmatt13> Mine broke as well
[07:58] <daveake> I binned an old one last week you could have had that
[07:58] <daveake> Anyway they're cheap as chips
[07:58] <ibanezmatt13> I'll get one this week
[07:59] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, I'm gonna do and udate and an upgrade now, I can't be doing with going through all the stuff I have
[08:00] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydqrH2tBRnc I'm the one on the piano. We arranged it ourself.
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[08:03] <ibanezmatt13> Some mistakes but not bad for a first attempt :)
[08:04] <ibanezmatt13> just done a sudo apt-get upgrade and it said "15MB will be freed" That's good even though it's not a lot
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[08:25] <fsphil> doing an update on the current raspbian image takes ages
[08:25] <fsphil> they really need to update the image
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[08:26] <ibanezmatt13> apt-get upgrades take soo long
[08:27] <griffonbot> @daveake: So the best image on my Pi flight yesterday was .... filename "snap314.jpg". Is there a higher power at work here? :p #raspberry_pi #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/338934569896120320]
[08:29] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 If you think that's slow, you should try compiling ffmpeg on the Pi ...
[08:29] <daveake> (don't)
[08:29] <ibanezmatt13> I tried ffmpeg once, limited success
[08:30] <eroomde> it takes some hardcore incantations
[08:30] <daveake> It's a bit delicate, but it does work. I modded mine to do a live overlay of altitude, and the first compilation was many many hours
[08:30] <ibanezmatt13> I programmed a PIR motion sensor to activate a 10 second video recording from a webcam when it detected movement. It didn't work
[08:31] <costyn> daveake: I've done overlay of data with just using subtitles... just include it inside an mkv file (for your own use) or upload it to youtube, which can display it too
[08:31] <daveake> Well, it can crash if you ask it do do a resolution it doesn't like, it's that bad
[08:31] <costyn> daveake: of course, that's only for a text overlay
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[08:31] <Darkside> hrm
[08:31] <Darkside> you guys might be awake for a launch we're doing on wednesday morning :P
[08:31] <Darkside> as we're launching around 8am our time
[08:31] <daveake> costyn Yeah but this was live streaming from the Pi, adding telemetry data.
[08:31] <ibanezmatt13> I'll be up
[08:31] <eroomde> won;t pick up any signal tho
[08:31] <costyn> daveake: aah ok; encoding on the fly, cool :)
[08:32] <Darkside> well
[08:32] <Darkside> we might have a websdr up
[08:32] <Darkside> so you can use that :P
[08:32] <ibanezmatt13> well, I could try. Where is it launching from?
[08:32] <Darkside> haha
[08:32] <Darkside> Adelaide, South Australia
[08:32] <daveake> costyn This was one of Upu's "Wouldn't it be cool if ..." comments resulting in 2 days hard labour for me :p
[08:32] <ibanezmatt13> I'm sure I'll pick something up... :)
[08:32] <costyn> daveake: haha
[08:34] <daveake> Something tells me my payload was spinning yesterday :p http://imgur.com/8Le4O1W
[08:34] <eroomde> what are peeps doing for their BH?
[08:34] <daveake> recovering
[08:34] <costyn> daveake: haha ... was that on the way up or down?
[08:34] <daveake> down!
[08:34] <daveake> BBQ possibly
[08:35] <costyn> eroomde: BH?
[08:35] <eroomde> bonk halliday
[08:35] <costyn> BH is what we use in Dutch for 'bra' :)
[08:35] <Randomskk> working furiously, what else?
[08:35] <costyn> literally 'breast holder' hehe
[08:35] <eroomde> cambridge has no idea about bank holidays though
[08:35] <Randomskk> it could be worse, I had an exam on the last bank holiday
[08:35] <eroomde> they don;t penetrate the bubble
[08:35] <Randomskk> yes, we have no need for these new fangled bank holidays
[08:35] <eroomde> or new fangled banks
[08:36] <Randomskk> quite
[08:36] <eroomde> the knights templar have just about reached the attention of the university senate
[08:37] <Randomskk> I'm surprised we don't use the julian calendar for term dates
[08:38] <eroomde> '[mathematical] proof is a social construst' - overheard on radio 4
[08:38] <eroomde> this is why arts grads should have a license
[08:38] <KT5TK> Building a transverter from a TV tuner front-end: http://kt5tk.wordpress.com/
[08:40] <eroomde> nice
[08:40] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: But it is.
[08:41] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Try getting a caveman to agree with your proof.
[08:41] <griffonbot> @cowanh00: RT @daveake: So the best image on my Pi flight yesterday was .... filename "snap314.jpg". Is there a higher power at work here? :p #raspbe& [http://twitter.com/cowanh00/status/338937964983885824]
[08:41] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: or a dog
[08:41] <eroomde> what is your point?
[08:42] <SpeedEvil> To be fair, I'd be only really happy if it was restated 'the importance of proofs is a social construct'
[08:42] <eroomde> it's possible to show proof to uninitiated people. Plato spent a while on this in his fictional dialogue with meno, a slave boy
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[08:43] <eroomde> demonstrating the undeniability of scribe and compass proofs to someone unititiated
[08:44] <SpeedEvil> You need a willing observer that sees the world as you do.
[08:44] <eroomde> sorry the slave blonged to meno*
[08:44] <SpeedEvil> And is willing to pay attention, for proofs to mean anything.
[08:46] <SpeedEvil> A proof - as an isolated thing that nobody pays attention to is not a useful discovery.
[08:47] <eroomde> it doesn't have to be a useful discovery
[08:47] <eroomde> that has nothing to do with anything
[08:47] <eroomde> i can't eat a painting
[08:47] <eroomde> but that doesn't make it not art
[08:48] <fsphil> http://imgur.com/gallery/kdcgZLO
[08:48] <SpeedEvil> A painting may be imperceptible to some audiences though.
[08:48] <SpeedEvil> This pretty much does make it not art.
[08:49] <SpeedEvil> (To them).
[08:49] <SpeedEvil> If your proof has no possible audience, it's not really a proof - in a social sense.
[08:49] <eroomde> i'm not really sure proof has a social sense
[08:49] <ibanezmatt13> My Pi is now ready for use! So how shall I run the git command to get https://github.com/fsphil/ssdv? Is it just " git https://github.com/fsphil/ssdv" ?
[08:50] <eroomde> i think once you have a set of axioms (i agree there is a debate to be had about these) then you have a logic
[08:50] <craag> ibanezmatt13: "git clone https://github.com/fsphil/ssdv"
[08:50] <eroomde> and it can be completely self contained
[08:50] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks
[08:50] <GW8RAK> ibanezmatt13 - did you manage to hear any balloon signals over the weekend with your Alinco?
[08:50] <SpeedEvil> A proof on one level is an internally consistent mathematical argument. On another level, it's a proof of something. If it's not paid attention to, or understood, then in some senses it's legitimately questionable as to if it's a proof.
[08:51] <SpeedEvil> Anyway - this is not a useful argument, though I can't prove it.
[08:51] <SpeedEvil> Many things on radio 4 annoy me much, much more :)
[08:51] <ibanezmatt13> GW8RAK: I must admit, I didn't really try. I will when the next one goes up though :)
[08:51] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: yes what craag said :)
[08:51] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[08:52] <SpeedEvil> Primarily people, especially government ministers, making statemets about benefits these days.
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> to install git is it just sudo apt-get install git ?
[08:52] <GW8RAK> Okay, but if you want me to send some data ground to ground, I can do so today. Don't know if you are able to get up Billinge hill
[08:52] <eroomde> i don't see any senses in which that's true. I just think it you can show a statement, within a framework of a logic, to be consistent, then that's it. that's fulfills the requirement of proof
[08:52] <craag> ibanezmatt13: yep
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> ok :)
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[08:54] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: From your perspective, you can see how from a social science perspective, a proof which is not understood by anyone (for example, some of the extensive computational proofs before computation)- or is not understood by anyone as a proof - isn't a proof.
[08:54] <SpeedEvil> The basic problem is their vocabulary.
[08:55] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[08:55] <SpeedEvil> Reading judgements of the upper tribunal, where they do exactly this sort of logic chopping is breaking my brain.
[08:55] <eroomde> i guess if they redefine proof in their own way then yes, they can conclude what they like
[08:56] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I've done the git bit. But I don't know what just happened, where is are the files?
[08:56] <ibanezmatt13> oh i see, it's in the home directory as SSDV
[08:56] <daveake> It goes where you "are"
[08:57] <ibanezmatt13> so shall I change directory to the SSDV directory and run make?
[08:57] <daveake> yep
[08:57] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: yes
[08:57] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[08:57] <SpeedEvil> On a more silly note - Laurenceb linked this over on ##physics
[08:57] <SpeedEvil> http://electrictakeoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Two-Stage-Tether-to-Orbit.pdf
[08:57] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, it's doing some GCC things
[08:57] <daveake> yep
[08:58] <ibanezmatt13> it's finished
[08:58] <fsphil> yay
[08:58] <mfa298> when its done you should see an executeable file called ssdv
[08:58] <daveake> Except it won't execute :)
[08:58] <ibanezmatt13> where will that file be
[08:58] <daveake> where you are
[08:58] <daveake> i.e. current working directory
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> i see ti
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> it
[08:59] <fsphil> to install it, run sudo make install
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> sudo make install ssdv?
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> from this directory?
[08:59] <fsphil> aye
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> ok :)
[09:00] <mfa298> you dont need the ssdv on the end just "sudo make install"
[09:00] <ibanezmatt13> ok that's done
[09:00] <fsphil> so in theory if you just type ssdv
[09:00] <fsphil> it'll say something
[09:00] <ibanezmatt13> it says "no mode specified"
[09:01] <daveake> that's the correct something :)
[09:01] <ibanezmatt13> good :)
[09:01] <steve_____> gak arduino's and clocks
[09:01] <steve_____> I got myself some atmega328 chips with 16MHz crystals
[09:02] <ibanezmatt13> Now I guess comes the hard bit...
[09:02] <steve_____> however in order to use the pi as a programmer I need to run it at 3v3
[09:02] <steve_____> which means 12MHz crystals max
[09:02] <steve_____> and another trip to marlin :(
[09:03] <steve_____> maplin
[09:03] <griffonbot> Received email: NickB "[UKHAS] Re: Falcon - Launch announcement (25th of May)"
[09:03] <Randomskk> steve_____: so technically yes
[09:03] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: ssdv --help
[09:03] <Randomskk> but in reality you can run an AVR at 16MHz on 3v3
[09:03] <Randomskk> and it works
[09:03] <ibanezmatt13> thanks fsphil
[09:03] <steve_____> I have managed to program
[09:04] <steve_____> perhaps I'll keep testing
[09:04] <Randomskk> lots of people use 16MHz on 3v3, even in flights, and it's fine
[09:04] <steve_____> cool thx
[09:04] <daveake> Oh, just remembered ... my flight was found yesterday by ... a tree surgeon
[09:04] <daveake> Might be handy in future :)
[09:04] <steve_____> nice
[09:05] <steve_____> I heard that someone called you
[09:05] <fsphil> daveake: hah
[09:05] <daveake> Yep. We'd tried all the roads around the landing area and got absolutely nothing on the radio, which really didn't make sense.
[09:06] <daveake> The batteries were soldered in and even if the Pi had died we should still have had a carrier
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[09:06] <daveake> Then the phone rang :)
[09:06] <steve_____> execellent
[09:06] <daveake> We'd actually been right next to where it landed, but by then it was miles away in the guy's car!
[09:07] <steve_____> I guess they don't expect people to be chasing them
[09:07] <daveake> Fortunately I printed "If you fuind me I'm probably lost please call ..." on the outside
[09:07] <daveake> It'd have been even more confusing if we'd got the signal then it'd started moving!
[09:08] <daveake> A real chase!
[09:08] <steve_____> ha
[09:09] <daveake> Poor guy heard a loud thud then saw a big pile of latex (1.1kg of it) and attached parachute and payload
[09:09] <steve_____> :)
[09:09] <daveake> He was about to drive away from the place and it landed 2 car lengths in front of him
[09:09] <steve_____> at least it didn't cause damage
[09:09] <daveake> at 20mph
[09:09] <daveake> indeed
[09:10] <steve_____> well - its good news that you got it back
[09:10] <ibanezmatt13> I'm going to use fswebcam to take a picture, and I'm gonna experiment with that ssdv program
[09:10] <daveake> It was all tangled together. Looking at the photos the camera got covered early on
[09:10] <steve_____> hopefully next time I will be able to decode a little more
[09:10] <daveake> Yeah
[09:10] <daveake> The decoding went really well yesterday - hardly any lost packets
[09:10] <daveake> Well till it tumbled out of the sky
[09:11] <steve_____> I could hear it well enough
[09:11] <steve_____> just couldn't decode
[09:11] <steve_____> I got 2 images
[09:11] <steve_____> and 1 telemetary
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[09:11] <steve_____> that was it
[09:11] <daveake> worthwile anyway they may have been uniqeue to you!
[09:11] <daveake> Whereabouts are you?
[09:11] <daveake> unique
[09:11] <steve_____> not far away near the M3
[09:12] <steve_____> I think I need to get a habamp
[09:12] <daveake> OK close enough
[09:12] <daveake> Yep they're good
[09:12] <steve_____> I was using a dongle and X30
[09:12] <steve_____> as I said I could hear it well enough
[09:12] <steve_____> anyways - lesson learnt (I think)
[09:13] <mfa298> steve_____: you might just need to play with some of the settings in dl-fldigi. for a faster baud rate some of the default settings don't work as well
[09:13] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: With the ssdv --help, what [-e|-d] mean? Is that just a fixed parameter for each use of the program
[09:13] <fsphil> encode or decode
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[09:13] <steve_____> member:mfa298 - I did play a bit but still couldn't decode
[09:14] <ibanezmatt13> So do I choose encode?
[09:14] <fsphil> yep :)
[09:14] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a go
[09:15] <steve_____> anyways off to cook breakfast
[09:15] <steve_____> bb4now
[09:15] <mfa298> steve_____: the main one that needs changint is the rtty filter bandwidth which needs to be set to close to the baud rate (default is something like 68)
[09:15] <steve_____> yes
[09:15] <steve_____> I did that - opened it right up
[09:15] <steve_____> between 400 - 600
[09:16] <steve_____> still no luck
[09:16] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: I tried it and it did something really quickly. I don't know what it did though...
[09:16] <steve_____> i was decoding 85% of the characters
[09:16] <G0MJW-PC> Morning
[09:16] <steve_____> but couldn't quite get them all
[09:16] <steve_____> anyways - thanks :)
[09:16] <steve_____> gtg
[09:16] <mfa298> steve_____: ah ok
[09:16] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: it should have said
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[09:17] <ibanezmatt13> it said "usage: and then basically what it said in the help section"
[09:18] <ibanezmatt13> I ran this "ssdv [-e] [t 50] [-c bob] [-1 4] [picture.jpg] [encoded.jpg]"
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[09:18] <Randomskk> you don't want square brackets
[09:19] <ibanezmatt13> do i just use spaces?
[09:19] <Randomskk> yes
[09:19] <ibanezmatt13> that's why it didn't work. Take 2...
[09:19] <Randomskk> the usage has the square brackets by convention: they indicate arguments to the program
[09:19] <mfa298> square brackets in a help message generally indicate something is optional
[09:19] <ibanezmatt13> that makes sense
[09:20] <ibanezmatt13> YES! it wrote 131 packets!!!!!
[09:20] <ibanezmatt13> god knows where to but it worked!
[09:21] <fsphil> where you told it :)
[09:21] <ibanezmatt13> where's that :)
[09:21] <ibanezmatt13> oh i see, yes
[09:21] <ibanezmatt13> sorry
[09:22] <ibanezmatt13> so it's produced another image... what has it actually done?
[09:22] <fsphil> it's not an image
[09:22] <fsphil> well it is
[09:22] <fsphil> but it's ssdv packets
[09:22] <ibanezmatt13> I see, what would be the next step if I wanted to send this to the NTX2?
[09:23] <fsphil> either send all the bytes in that file
[09:23] <fsphil> or send the file in 256 byte chunks
[09:23] <fsphil> with other stuff in between
[09:23] <ibanezmatt13> is one better than another?
[09:24] <fsphil> up to you :)
[09:24] <fsphil> but images at 300 baud take ages, so you may want to put some telemetry lines in between the packets
[09:24] <ibanezmatt13> I've always wondered how you return something from a command into a python program. I know you would do os.system('the command here') but how do I get the SSDV packets into my send function in python?
[09:25] <fsphil> just read the file it produces
[09:25] <Randomskk> with open("encoded.jpg", "rb") as f:
[09:25] <Randomskk> data = f.read(256)
[09:26] <Randomskk> for byte in data:
[09:26] <Randomskk> send(byte)
[09:26] <ibanezmatt13> Wow, that's just like opening normal files in python.
[09:26] <fsphil> it is a normal file :)
[09:27] <ibanezmatt13> when you say send byte, is that the part in my program which goes serial.write(whatever is going to radio) ?
[09:27] <Randomskk> sure
[09:27] <Randomskk> send() is some function that transmits one byte out of the radio
[09:27] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: thanks :)
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[09:31] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5656108
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[09:32] <Randomskk> that will only send the first packet, and also you should f.close() if you're not going to use the context manager
[09:32] <Randomskk> but yes
[09:32] <Randomskk> oh, wait
[09:32] <Randomskk> well
[09:32] <Randomskk> your outer loop will always do the same thing
[09:33] <Randomskk> you want to open the file outside of the loop, then read from it inside the loop, then close the file after the loop
[09:33] <ibanezmatt13> that makes sense, one sec
[09:33] <Randomskk> you also want to check if the read returned nothing
[09:33] <Babs> BABSHAB and its gyros doing an impression of Johnny Five dying in Short Circuit 1 (needs sound) - http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8852335762/
[09:33] <Randomskk> if f.read(256) gives you "", that means you're out of data in the file
[09:34] <Randomskk> it'd be neater to put that in the while loop, too
[09:34] <Randomskk> for instance
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[09:34] <Randomskk> f = open("encoded.jpg", "rb"); packet = f.read(256); while packet != "": send(packet); packet = f.read(256); (end while loop); f.close()
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[09:35] <ibanezmatt13> that makes a lot more sense, yes :)
[09:36] <Randomskk> python does not take well to being compressed onto one line
[09:36] <Randomskk> possibly its sole failing as a language :P
[09:37] <ibanezmatt13> thanks :)
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[09:39] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: So when the while loop ends, it'll just close the file and end the program
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[09:40] <Randomskk> right.
[09:40] <Randomskk> obviously you could do other things if you wanted
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[09:42] <ibanezmatt13> so the finished piece https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5656108
[09:43] <Randomskk> not quite. sorry, my fault
[09:43] <Randomskk> one second
[09:43] <Randomskk> well I'll just explain
[09:43] <Randomskk> you have transmitter.write(byte)
[09:43] <Randomskk> but you don't have a byte yet
[09:43] <Randomskk> you still need a loop inside the while loop, for byte in packet
[09:44] <Randomskk> and you should still transmitter.close
[09:44] <ibanezmatt13> Of course :) one sec
[09:44] <Randomskk> also where your comment says "read one byte from the file", you're actually reading 256 bytes (one packet)
[09:44] <Randomskk> and aaaalso you should really put spaces after commas, on like 2
[09:44] <Randomskk> that's so minor I hate to mention it, but there you go
[09:44] <fsphil> good formatting is important :)
[09:45] <ibanezmatt13> thanks for the advice! I'll put it into practice
[09:45] <Randomskk> my editor whines at me if my code is not perfect PEP8
[09:45] <Randomskk> and the whining adds a sidebar with error indicators which is so annoying that I ensure I never have issues
[09:45] <Randomskk> so no lines over 80, spaces where proper, perfect indentation and line continuation, properly formatted names, the "correct" number of blank lines between things
[09:45] <Randomskk> two spaces before an inline comment apparently
[09:46] <Randomskk> (it also checks all my syntax and other things like unused imports and unused variables and stuff)
[09:46] <ibanezmatt13> that's very disciplined coding :)
[09:46] <fsphil> handy
[09:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> Babs looks like the gimbal worked really well! Congratulations!
[09:48] <ibanezmatt13> sorry for the poor formatting https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5656108
[09:48] <mfa298> neat coding helps a lot when you come back to it later, especialy with things like C and perl where the compiler/interpreter doesnt care about white space.
[09:49] <ibanezmatt13> what happens when I've finished with the encoded file? I need to somehow delete it in readiness for my next one
[09:49] <Randomskk> probably ssdv will just overwrite it
[09:50] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: close but no cigar
[09:50] <Randomskk> you should read the next packet _outside_ of the byte loop
[09:50] <Randomskk> which should make sense if you think about it
[09:51] <Randomskk> on the topic of pedantry, 4 spaces is generally preferred for python code, and you can probably set up your text editor to do that for you
[09:51] <ibanezmatt13> yes it does make sense.
[09:52] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5656108
[09:52] <Babs_> Thanks Geoff-G8DHE - it all held together too which was good news - do you by any chance have the link to the the flight overview summary earth google thing you posted yesterday? I lost it (what utility do you use to convert the basic string to a google earth file btw?)
[09:52] <Randomskk> that looks good ibanezmatt13
[09:53] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: I thank you greatly! :) The fact that I actually understand the code makes me happier than anything else
[09:53] <daveake> just a comment that the encoded file isn't a jpeg so personally I wouldn't name it as something.jpg
[09:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup there all at http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights choose the flight from the list and look for OBJECT MOVIE and also click the Pano link in the index to go to the Pano pages (its a quick cludge to my normal site - must tidy it up!)
[09:54] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I thought it was, but now I know. I'll have it all modified for later. Thanks again :)
[09:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> If you want any Pano's made from any images shout if you don't have the tools happy to assist!
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[09:56] <Babs> Thanks Geoff-G8DHE - will take a look
[09:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh just relaised I didn't do an actual Pano from your- yet ... got lost in the rush of flights and data from PIE6
[09:57] <fsphil> mmmm pie
[09:58] <daveake> Ah thanks for the flight path and pano image Geoff-G8DHE
[10:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> daveake if you have any more good images I can include them over GE images, helps if I know the time of the image as otherwise getting the perspective right is "fun" not ;-)
[10:00] <daveake> Ah yeah I can do that
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[10:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Right off to do a Babshab Pano ...
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[10:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> Babs_ just noticed the second part of your question, to convert the data to a KML file, Habitat does it! Just click the link in the nottom corner of the normal tracker window and the data is sent to GE every 20 seconds, I just save that file! I have copies of the final result so when this Pano finishes I'll give you a link to the KML file as well
[10:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> Babs_ right Pano at http://360.g8dhe.net/default.php?HAB amd GE KMZ file is at http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/BABSHAB/babshab.kmz to play with in GE.
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[10:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> If you want t make any alterations to theKMZ/L files shout if you not sure of the format etc. key points have been pulled to the front of the "Positions" folder to make it easier.
[10:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> If anyone else wants the KMZ/L files for flights shout I have them all saved, it should also be possible to convert the CSV file dumps fro Habitat to KML using GPS Babel (but not needed to do it yet).
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[10:52] <chrisstubbs> Something has gone horribly wrong
[10:52] <chrisstubbs> when i plug my usb ttl board in and connect it to my board, it moves my mouse and randomly clicks
[10:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its that Higher Power that daveake has been talking about ....
[10:58] <chrisstubbs> lol
[10:58] <daveake> Bill Gates?
[10:58] <daveake> It's his fault
[10:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> Could be! Watch out for Melinda
[10:59] <daveake> Stupid Windows thinks any active serial device is a damn serial mouse
[11:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> bbl
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[11:06] <ibanezmatt13> I've got my latest SD card updated with the new Raspbian OS. I have just installed fswebcam and I have got the SSDV working again. What I would like to do now is install the serial library for python... What must I do to get this?
[11:09] <ibanezmatt13> is it something like pyserial?
[11:09] <chrisstubbs> yeah thats exactly what you need if you want to program it in python
[11:10] <ibanezmatt13> what shall I run to download and install the library into python?
[11:10] <chrisstubbs> there are install instructions on their site http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/pyserial.html#installation
[11:10] <ibanezmatt13> thanks :)
[11:11] <chrisstubbs> i just downlaoded it via the browser, right click unzipped in in the file manager, opened terminal, navigated into the direcotry and then installed it like the website says
[11:11] <ibanezmatt13> I'll do that
[11:14] <ibanezmatt13> So, I've downloaded the file and unzipped it into the Pi's home directory
[11:14] <chrisstubbs> ok open terminal
[11:15] <chrisstubbs> and type "ls" <enter>
[11:15] <ibanezmatt13> Ok
[11:15] <ibanezmatt13> you want me to cd?
[11:15] <chrisstubbs> there should be a folder caller pyserial.x.x
[11:15] <chrisstubbs> yeah cd into that
[11:15] <ibanezmatt13> there is, it is version 2,6
[11:15] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[11:16] <chrisstubbs> then just run
[11:16] <chrisstubbs> python setup.py install
[11:16] <chrisstubbs> if it fails then sudo python setup.py install
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[11:16] <ibanezmatt13> Thank you very much :)
[11:16] <chrisstubbs> no problem :)
[11:17] <ibanezmatt13> the last message it returned was "could not create /usr/local......, permission dennied
[11:17] <chrisstubbs> sudo python setup.py install
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[11:19] <ibanezmatt13_> when i import it into python, is it just import serial, or import pyserial
[11:19] <chrisstubbs> errrrr
[11:19] <chrisstubbs> oh the server all my code is stored on is unplugged
[11:20] <mfa298> you might have also have been able to do "sudo apt-get install python-serial" rather than downloading the source
[11:20] <ibanezmatt13_> I see.
[11:20] <ibanezmatt13_> I think it installed ok though
[11:20] <ibanezmatt13_> Im gonna try it in python now and see what it returns. It's either pyserial or serial...
[11:20] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13_, http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/shortintro.html#opening-serial-ports
[11:21] <chrisstubbs> import serial
[11:21] <chrisstubbs> the docs are great for this
[11:21] <chrisstubbs> lots of info there that will be useful
[11:21] <ibanezmatt13_> import serial returns, no such module... so does pyserial
[11:21] <ibanezmatt13_> will have to reinstall
[11:21] <chrisstubbs> thats odd
[11:21] <chrisstubbs> what python version are you using?
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[11:21] <ibanezmatt13_> i didn't run it as sudo...
[11:22] <ibanezmatt13_> it did say it didn't have permission for something at the end
[11:22] <chrisstubbs> ah ok yeah just run it as sudo and it will overwrite it all
[11:22] <ibanezmatt13_> ok
[11:22] <chrisstubbs> and should worjk
[11:22] <ibanezmatt13_> yep, it worked
[11:23] <mfa298> this is why it's always worth checking if there's a pre built package. It will get all the dependancies and install it in the right place for you.
[11:23] <ibanezmatt13_> yeah, I heard there was something called pip. But everything's running fine now, importing serial works! :)
[11:24] <chrisstubbs> are you going to be using the serial port on the "GPIO" header?
[11:24] <ibanezmatt13_> Can I get rid of the tar.gz unzipped folder now that I have the unzipped folder (stupid question)
[11:24] <chrisstubbs> yeah you can
[11:24] <ibanezmatt13_> yes, I am I think
[11:24] <ibanezmatt13_> I'm using the RXD and TXD pins
[11:24] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: for preference I would get stuff from apt first, then pip, then install from source.
[11:25] <ibanezmatt13_> I'll go by that method in the future :)
[11:25] <mfa298> using apt to install stuff means it will get updated when you do an apt-get upgrade if there are bug fixes
[11:26] <ibanezmatt13_> that's a good point
[11:26] <chrisstubbs> I had no idea you could apt-get it like that, nice and easy!
[11:26] <ibanezmatt13_> nor did i
[11:26] <ibanezmatt13_> :)
[11:26] <mfa298> learning to use the apt- tools is your friend.
[11:27] <ibanezmatt13_> just so I can recieve upgrades, if I do the apt-get install as well, will it overwrite it?
[11:27] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13_, are you going for ntx2 & gps, or ntx2 & webcam?
[11:27] <mfa298> I just ran "sudo apt-cache search pyserial" and it told me there was a package called python-serial
[11:27] <mfa298> which you can then sudo apt-get install
[11:27] <chrisstubbs> nice trick
[11:27] <ibanezmatt13_> chrisstubbs: erm, ntx2, gps and webcam.... for the serial, ntx2 and gps
[11:28] <ibanezmatt13_> after doing the apt-cache thing, do I just run sudo apt-get install followed by the name of the package
[11:29] <mfa298> yes
[11:29] <ibanezmatt13_> thanks
[11:29] <chrisstubbs> ok, well my gps is hooked up over USB so you will need to switch baudrates inbetween messages to pick up data from the gps, then switch back to transmit it
[11:29] <chrisstubbs> if its on the same port
[11:29] <mfa298> the "apt-cache search" searches through all packages for anything that matches the last term
[11:29] <ibanezmatt13_> Yeah, that's exactly how I'm doing it. And mfa298, that's a very helpful trick
[11:29] <fsphil> I do worry about USB during flights, it's not a great connection
[11:30] <chrisstubbs> I dont have a lot of faith in the gps, i will be flying a new cheapo board with it for redundancy
[11:30] <mfa298> the first rule of any linux distro: learn to use it's package manager
[11:30] <chrisstubbs> if you saw the usb board you would understand why :P
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> mfa298: Not linux from scratch
[11:31] <fsphil> LFS was quite educational
[11:31] <mfa298> SpeedEvil: even on LFS, it's just your pakage manager is wget; tar; ./configure; make; make install
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[11:31] <mfa298> :p
[11:32] <mfa298> I never got that far with LFS.
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[11:33] <mfa298> although last time I tried it I think it was on an early pentium or possibly a 486 so it took a while to install.
[11:33] <essential> look at the linguistics to that sometime. 'make install'
[11:33] <essential> <---pointed this all out to various cs community, many a moon ago btw
[11:34] <Hix> New tracker board designed http://i.imgur.com/Q8iCOyk.png
[11:34] <Hix> just need to work out what i want to break out now
[11:34] <essential> would you advise a musician playing at your wedding to: "start music-make"??
[11:35] <essential> (these are structures not very well thought through, by those originating or adding on)
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[11:35] <Hix> is that your "modified" gps chrisstubbs ;p
[11:36] <chrisstubbs> yeah
[11:36] <mfa298> it's no worse than start shutdown
[11:36] <Hix> heh
[11:36] <essential> after the amazing test balloons fly due to klooged Klumsy engineering, maybe it's time to reset the basis to make the climate surfing that much more graceful, eh
[11:38] <chrisstubbs> oo nice board hix
[11:38] <chrisstubbs> brave man going for that SD slot, looks horrific to solder
[11:38] <fsphil> rounded corners make everything better
[11:38] <Hix> microSD too :D
[11:38] <chrisstubbs> the ones with the pins on the end are few and far between now, especially ones with eagle libs
[11:38] <fsphil> Hix: why the through hole crystal?
[11:39] <Hix> i don't reckon anything is as horrid as the MAX6
[11:39] <chrisstubbs> lol
[11:39] <Hix> bits box fsphil
[11:39] <fsphil> gotcha
[11:39] <chrisstubbs> i hasd a ba***rd NEO6 yesterday
[11:39] <Hix> make do and mend :)
[11:39] <Darkside> Hix: to solder?
[11:39] <Darkside> yeah
[11:39] <Darkside> getting the heat into those little notches is a pain
[11:39] <Darkside> i find its the hardest thing on my PCBs to solder
[11:39] <Darkside> and that includes the QFN chips whichi do by hand
[11:39] <Hix> Darkside: they bridge like hell
[11:39] <chrisstubbs> I had to use a fat tip just to get the heat into the ground pins in the end
[11:39] <Darkside> oh
[11:39] <Darkside> i dont get that
[11:40] <Darkside> i ue liquid flux
[11:40] <Darkside> use*
[11:40] <Hix> yup
[11:40] <Darkside> then bathe the board in IPA afterwards
[11:40] <Hix> but theyre still horrid
[11:40] <chrisstubbs> what band liquid flux do you use?
[11:40] <Darkside> uhm
[11:40] <chrisstubbs> *brand
[11:40] <fsphil> I need to get some IPA
[11:40] <Darkside> chemical cupboard downstairs brand
[11:40] <chrisstubbs> the stuff i use is shocking
[11:40] <Darkside> liquid rosin something
[11:40] <Hix> i thought the TQFP would be worse, but no
[11:40] <Darkside> it looks like whiskey
[11:40] <Darkside> so much so that i wrote "not whiskey" on the side of my bottle
[11:40] <Hix> i bought a flux pen from RS
[11:41] <Darkside> hrm
[11:41] <Hix> like a paint marker, very handy
[11:41] <Darkside> some flux pens are ok
[11:41] <Darkside> some are crap
[11:41] <Darkside> the one that was good was silver
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[11:41] <Darkside> and had a silver label
[11:41] <Darkside> then there was a whit eone with a green/white label which was crap
[11:41] <Darkside> as the flux dried up as soon as it got hot
[11:41] <fsphil> I got a pen from CPC, which is white
[11:41] <Darkside> was apparnerlt 'no clean'
[11:41] <Darkside> which was bull
[11:41] <chrisstubbs> http://bit.ly/Z9OpPw
[11:41] <chrisstubbs> that one?
[11:41] <fsphil> and made soldering through hole parts much easier
[11:42] <Darkside> not that one
[11:42] <fsphil> not that one
[11:42] <Hix> circuit works from chemtronics
[11:42] <Hix> CW8100
[11:42] <chrisstubbs> ah thats the one i have, just as crap
[11:42] <Laurenceb__> im currently trying to solder 304 stainless
[11:42] <Laurenceb__> normal flux wont work - using plumbing flux
[11:42] <fsphil> the one I have is chemtronics though
[11:42] <fsphil> http://cpc.farnell.com/chemtronics/cw8100/no-clean-flux-dispensing-pen/dp/SA00859
[11:43] <fsphil> and yea the no-clean bit is a lie
[11:43] <Darkside> uploading a pic of mine
[11:43] <Hix> chrisstubbs: http://goo.gl/jrYuQ
[11:43] <Darkside> that pen looks ssimilar to the ones that i dont like
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[11:44] <fsphil> it definitely helped my through hole soldering, but it makes a mess of smd stuff
[11:44] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/5hEf5Le.jpg
[11:44] <Darkside> theres my bottle of flux
[11:45] <Darkside> you can see i respect OH&S chemical labelling rules
[11:45] <fsphil> does whiskey often come in syringes there?
[11:45] <Darkside> nah
[11:45] <Darkside> its not a real syringe
[11:45] <Darkside> has a flat tip
[11:45] <Hix> only if you need a fast hit fsphil
[11:45] <Darkside> really good for dispensing small amounts of flux though
[11:45] <fsphil> looks it yea
[11:46] <Darkside> anyhoo, all i know is the bottle was labeled 'liquid rosin'
[11:46] <Darkside> or somesuch
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[11:47] <Darkside> http://au.element14.com/multicore-loctite/638135/flux-638135-5l/dp/1115468
[11:47] <Darkside> that looks familiar
[11:48] <chrisstubbs> Too much flux
[11:48] <Darkside> it'll last you years
[11:48] <fsphil> that's a lot of flux
[11:48] <Hix> christ 5L
[11:48] <Darkside> the bottle i decanted mine from has been in that cupboard for the last 5 years
[11:48] <fsphil> they ship it from the UK
[11:48] <fsphil> I bet it's still more expensive here
[11:49] <Hix> course - its the UK
[11:49] <Darkside> also
[11:49] <Darkside> decanting the stuff is a bitch
[11:49] <Darkside> its not water soluble
[11:49] <Darkside> so when you get it all over your hands, it's an IPA cleanup job
[11:49] <Darkside> which is always fun
[11:49] <Darkside> leaves your hands very dry
[11:49] <fsphil> £143.09
[11:49] <Hix> I'm assuming isopropyl not india pale ale
[11:49] <Darkside> fsphil: thats cheaper
[11:49] <Darkside> Hix: yes, isopropyl alcohol :P
[11:50] <fsphil> yep, 224.45 AUD
[11:50] <fsphil> though it doesn't include vat
[11:50] <Darkside> still cheap with VAT
[11:50] <fsphil> hmm, still cheaper
[11:50] <fsphil> 269.34 aud
[11:50] <fsphil> that's a bit rude
[11:50] <Darkside> even with the 50+ price
[11:50] <Darkside> yeah
[11:50] <Darkside> i get 10% off
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[11:50] <Darkside> 20%*
[11:50] <Hix> has anyone tried the coke can smd stencil thing yet?
[11:51] <Darkside> i havent used a chip that i couldnt solder by hand yet
[11:51] <Darkside> QFNs are no match for the power of the cark side
[11:51] <Darkside> dark*
[11:51] <Darkside> crap
[11:51] <Darkside> need regexbot in here
[11:51] <fsphil> hah
[11:52] <Hix> hello carkside
[11:52] <Darkside> :<
[11:52] <Hix> I've got a hirose DF12-50 connector for my GSM modules, no way that can be done by my hands
[11:53] <Hix> http://goo.gl/LPb8w 0.5mm (b/p)itch
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[11:54] <Darkside> what
[11:54] <Darkside> that looks easy
[11:54] <Darkside> this is what drag soldering is for
[11:54] <fsphil> I soldered an IC with a similar pitch recently, but can't test it because I messed up on the larger IC. duh
[11:54] <Darkside> that doenst look any harder than TQFP100s
[11:54] <fsphil> well I say soldered, ovened
[11:55] <Hix> I've only ever succeeded in bridging with drag method
[11:55] <fsphil> but paste applied manually :)
[11:55] <Darkside> and i've re-soldered something very similar to that connector in my IC-R10
[11:57] <Hix> I've got hot air now so reckon that the coke can stencil has got to be the way froward for jobs like that
[11:57] <Darkside> nawwww
[11:57] <Darkside> learn how to do it by hand
[11:57] <Darkside> wide-tipped iron, liquid flux
[11:57] <Darkside> easy
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[12:01] <Hix> I might try and get hold of some from work, surely they'll have some
[12:02] <Hix> I've got syringes sitting in my kit box so can use them
[12:03] <fsphil> I'm sure I got some IPA before, can't remember where it is
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[12:04] <SpeedEvil> http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=265553901
[12:05] <fsphil> that looks kinda icky
[12:05] <fsphil> I like that half that page is a disclaimer
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[12:05] <fsphil> well less than half
[12:06] <[2]chrisstubbs> c'mon BT... 24kb/s
[12:06] <SpeedEvil> The same boilerplate is on kitty litter
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[12:08] <fsphil> that's unusually bad even for BT
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[12:11] <[3]chrisstubbs> The U-center online installer is 2.5mb
[12:11] <[3]chrisstubbs> you have to download that in order to download the 6mb actual program
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[12:13] <Hix> someone is having a very strong smelling barbeque. This is no on. I have no meat in the fridge. grrrr
[12:13] <Hix> *not
[12:15] <fsphil> that's awful isn't it :)
[12:15] Action: Hix has tuned into a dribbling Homer
[12:16] Action: [3]chrisstubbs regrets trying to reuse a ublox
[12:16] <Hix> as in trying to remove it?
[12:17] <[3]chrisstubbs> an unuseable signal from one satelite. thats all :P
[12:17] <[3]chrisstubbs> yeah i removed it (without totally screwing it up this time), cleaned it up, and soldered it onto a new board
[12:17] <Hix> think that confirms what your picture said - borked
[12:18] <[3]chrisstubbs> Its putting out NMEA. It could the the ublox or the chip antenna thats borked
[12:18] <[3]chrisstubbs> I wonder if the chip antennas get screwed up if they are heated a bit much
[12:18] <Hix> try a length of wire instead - seriously effective
[12:18] <Hix> for testing
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[12:20] <Hix> 46.7mm
[12:20] <Hix> single core works fine
[12:22] <LeoBodnar> Does everybody use Radiometrix 434 MHz modules?
[12:22] <Hix> them or RFM22Bs LeoBodnar
[12:23] <Hix> chrisstubbs: http://stratosvision.com/docs/IMG_20130127_161516.jpg sorry it's full res
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[12:23] <LeoBodnar> How much Tx frequency shifts during the flight? Does it need manual Rx adjustment?
[12:24] <Hix> NTX2 seem pretty good if well packaged and insulated
[12:24] <Hix> RFM22B not so much
[12:24] <chrisstubbs> wow hix
[12:24] <fsphil> fldigi will track small frequency changes
[12:24] <fsphil> for most payloads that's fine
[12:25] <chrisstubbs> Might not even bother with chip antennas anymore :P
[12:25] <Hix> heh - works really well for testing
[12:25] <Hix> anyone know the difference in gain between the chip antennae and the new sarantel quadrifiliar [sp?]
[12:25] <LeoBodnar> I have a little project in the works with GPS and GSM modules and UHF TX based of Si4032. I am planning to discipline TX frequency to 1PPS signal from GPS.
[12:27] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar, neat trick
[12:28] <chrisstubbs> will be interested to see if that works
[12:28] <LeoBodnar> Now TX carrier stays within +-150Hz from the 434.075. Don't know if it worth bothering or not.
[12:28] <LeoBodnar> It does work. Frequency is adjusted between packets.
[12:28] <chrisstubbs> cool :)
[12:29] <chrisstubbs> is there much of a jump when it does change frequency, or is it smooth?
[12:29] <LeoBodnar> Unfortunately the smallest TX carrier adjustment step is 156 Hz.
[12:30] <chrisstubbs> ah yeah i have had the same problem using the temperature sensor to adjust the frequency
[12:30] <LeoBodnar> The only other way I can see to adjust smoother is to have a varactor pulling XTAL.
[12:30] <chrisstubbs> Yeah changing the internal registers to skew the capacitance is nowhere near fine enough
[12:31] <LeoBodnar> One step is from 220 to 6000 Hz :)
[12:32] <LeoBodnar> Is it worth spending time on?
[12:33] <LeoBodnar> I thought it might keep trackers happier.
[12:33] <chrisstubbs> I drew the line when it came to the varactor idea, simply becuase i would have no idea what im doing
[12:34] <chrisstubbs> if you can do it, then why not!
[12:39] <Randomskk> LeoBodnar: you would probably do just as well with some insulation on your crystal
[12:39] <Randomskk> or a TCXO
[12:43] <Geoff-G8DHE_> LeoBodnar Is that using the old Huff & Puff technique ?
[12:45] <chrisstubbs> I wonder how many samples you have to order from atmel before they stop sending you bits :P
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> Once you have the whole set.
[12:47] <chrisstubbs> haha
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[12:49] <Hix> Whats the formula for track width for 50Ohm on 1.6mm FR4?
[12:49] <Hix> GPS MHz
[12:49] <ibanezmatt13> When I have taken an image, I know that I can use SSDV to create a file containing the packets. When I have finished with the image, I need to take another one. How do I get the SSDV program to know which is the latest image?
[12:50] <chrisstubbs> Hix, Upu told me to have the track the same width as the GPS pad
[12:50] <chrisstubbs> and keep it as short as possible
[12:50] <Hix> there is a formula somewhere though based on dielectric thickness
[12:50] <chrisstubbs> as for actual numbers, no idea :P
[12:51] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: that's likely to depend on how your doing it.
[12:51] <Geoff-G8DHE_> ibanezmatt13 Also is the image worth sending ? Look back in the archives Daveake explained how he "looks" for good images to send
[12:51] <mfa298> some people take pictures regularly and then chose the best picture to send via ssdv
[12:52] <chrisstubbs> time to go make the most of this sun!
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[12:52] <mfa298> you also might not want to send back the photos at their original resolution.
[12:53] <ibanezmatt13> For now, I'll try and get it sending anything, and I'll add that feature later. I just need to know the basics on how to get the code written really. I'm thinking of using functions
[12:53] <mfa298> you might not want to do everything in a single script
[12:54] G7UXW (d92c87e4@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[12:54] <mfa298> for instance do you only want to take a picture when you're ready to send it via ssdv, or do you want lots of pictures on the SD card when you recover it from altitude
[12:55] <ibanezmatt13> well, I want some saved pictures which I can look at after recovery, but some every 5 mins or so for SSDV
[12:56] <ibanezmatt13> But for simplicity, I could just take some pictures on a separate camera, and just use the Pi for SSDV?
[12:56] <Hix> http://www.avagotech.com/pages/appcad
[12:56] <Randomskk> that sounds more complex :P
[12:57] <mfa298> if the camera on the pi is good enough why add weight and more expense when you've already got everything you need.
[12:57] <G7UXW> Hi All I,ve been looking back at the data I captured yesterday, dont seem to have any telemetry only a screen full of letters and stuff any ideas ??
[12:57] <ibanezmatt13> exactly
[12:58] <mfa298> So what you need to do is work out how to take images on a regular basis and then choose one from the set that have been taken recently to send via ssdv
[12:59] <ibanezmatt13> I know how to take pictures every x seconds and save them. I also know how to take x pictures, scan for the best one and save only the best one
[12:59] <ibanezmatt13> all using fswebcam :)
[13:00] <mfa298> that sounds like you have an answer then.
[13:00] <mfa298> latest isn't necessarily the best.
[13:01] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I know :) I don't know how it works but it does check for the "best".
[13:01] <mfa298> the only thing you probably do want to ensure is that the next image is newer than the last one you sent.
[13:02] <LeoBodnar> Hix, how long is the track length?
[13:02] <Hix> haven't got one yet
[13:02] <ibanezmatt13> I need to take images and name them in such a way that the SSDV program knows which is the latest image to turn into packets
[13:02] <Hix> but dug this out http://stratosvision.com/docs/UbloxTrackWidthCalc.pdf
[13:02] <Geoff-G8DHE_> G7UXW Is that from the PIE6 flight ? If so yes it was pictures interlaced with a bit of telemetryevery 30 seconds or so
[13:04] <mfa298> I'd just save all the images with some incrementing identifier (number / time etc). Then just look for files which are newer than the previous one you sent.
[13:05] <mfa298> I think Daveake does it by moving the set of likely candidate images to another folder once he's chosen the one to send.
[13:05] <ibanezmatt13> So I could call image 1: 1.jpg
[13:05] <ibanezmatt13> then increment that
[13:05] <LeoBodnar> I think on 1.5mm PCB you need about 1.1 mm width for 50R impedance
[13:05] <G7UXW> G8HDE Thanks Geoff yes it was pie6 ok now I know what I'm looking for now .....Where are the upcoming flight details published
[13:05] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: I recommend something like "0001.jpg" so they sort correctly when you have more
[13:05] <mfa298> that would be one way of doing it - there are lots of ways you could do it - some of which will depend on what language you're using.
[13:06] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, thanks. I'm using Python
[13:06] <LeoBodnar> Hix, do you have the groundplane on the other side?
[13:06] <mfa298> I don't use python so I can't make recomendations there.
[13:06] <Hix> LeoBodnar: i have ground fill on both sides of board
[13:06] <ibanezmatt13> I think I know how to increment a value; it's checking for the latest value that's my falling point
[13:07] <Geoff-G8DHE_> G7UXW Try searching for "$$" it precedes the callsign for the telemetry, the list is published on the forum https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ukhas and also as an iCal
[13:07] <mfa298> The other common way of naming things is something like Picture-20130527-140650.jpg (yyyymmdd-hhmmss)
[13:07] <ibanezmatt13> It's the checking for the latest one that is the problem though
[13:08] <Geoff-G8DHE_> iCal is http://habitat.habhub.org/calendar/
[13:08] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: but if you're taking pictures say every 30 seconds but an ssdv transmission take several minutes you may not want the latest image. you might find one of the others is better
[13:09] <ibanezmatt13> I mean the latest image that has been chosen as the best
[13:09] <fsphil> oh man, too hot
[13:09] <fsphil> not often I have to complain about that :)
[13:09] <Geoff-G8DHE_> You could simply send the file with the biggest size, pretty good indicator of detail!
[13:09] <fsphil> largest file may be the file with most clouds :)
[13:09] <ibanezmatt13> that's a good idea
[13:10] <Geoff-G8DHE_> No clouds are nearly all the same colour and compress
[13:10] <fsphil> although that's probably want you want - more ground
[13:10] <LeoBodnar> Hix, you need to open top ground fill around microstrip to maintain impedance.
[13:10] <fsphil> full cloud cover would compress well, it's the patchy clouds that don't
[13:10] <Randomskk> does anyone do anything cleverer than largest file size?
[13:10] <fsphil> I think Tim did something clevererer
[13:11] <fsphil> but I don't recall what it was
[13:11] <G7UXW> Geoff >> Thanks for the info Kevin G7UXW
[13:11] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: remember you want to make the desision about which is best from the set of images that have been taken between the last one you sent and now. So the best time to do that is just before sending it.
[13:11] <Hix> LeoBodnar: yes, been told this, willdo
[13:12] <ibanezmatt13> I see.
[13:12] <mfa298> you probably want the images being taken as a seperate process to the sending the ssdv images.
[13:12] <ibanezmatt13> so not in the same script?
[13:12] <fsphil> yea put the images into a directory while the current one is being sent
[13:13] <fsphil> then you choose your next image from those
[13:13] <fsphil> and clear the directory
[13:13] <fsphil> (either delete them, or move then elsewhere)
[13:13] <ibanezmatt13> So I delete the images after every transmission?
[13:13] <fsphil> optional
[13:13] <fsphil> but you might want a copy of the full images
[13:13] <fsphil> there's no guarantee you'll receive them fully via radio
[13:13] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: that depends on what python supports and how you want to split things up. If you can do multithreaded programs in python it could be in the same script, but personally I'd just run fswebcam from a cron job.
[13:14] <fsphil> plus you can store a much higher resolution version on the SD card
[13:14] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Keep an index in order of size of all images, then send the one that is at the top of the index, don't delete any images they can be viewed later
[13:14] <fsphil> fswebcam can write files with multiple resolutions at the same time
[13:14] <fsphil> you could save one to archive, and a smaller one to your 'to-transmit' directory
[13:15] <ibanezmatt13> that's all very good information :)
[13:15] <LeoBodnar> HIx, ignore 1.1mm, http://www.atmel.com/Images/Atmel-42131-RF-Layout-with-Microstrip_Application-Note_AT02865.pdf says for 50R on FR4 width is twice the PCB thickness, i.e. 3mm
[13:16] <ibanezmatt13> Can the checking for the better images be done in fswebcam completely?
[13:17] <fsphil> wouldn't make sense
[13:17] <fsphil> I'd just keep fswebcam doing the one job
[13:17] <Randomskk> LeoBodnar, Hix: in reality, for traces shorter than 1/16 of the wavelength (i.e. 4cm or so), it doesn't matter
[13:17] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: if fswebcam is just taking pictures in a seperate process how will it know when you're ready to send the next image to choose the best one to send.
[13:17] <Randomskk> also in reality that rule ^ is only applicable for normal microstrips which has other requirements about ground planes and so forth
[13:18] <Randomskk> if you're routing an RF signal around a board, you need to care, if you're just connecting the gps to the antenna a few mm away, you don't need to care
[13:18] <LeoBodnar> I was going to point this out - wavelength for GPS is 200mm. But it's a good exercise.
[13:18] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[13:18] <fsphil> it would be an interesting exercise in python, reading a directory and choosing the largest file
[13:18] <ibanezmatt13> it would
[13:18] <Randomskk> LeoBodnar: oh, forgot it was gps, so yea, a bit longer
[13:18] <Randomskk> (if you're routing around the entire board in a HAB payload you're probably doing it wrong anyway)
[13:18] <Randomskk> shorter*
[13:19] <ibanezmatt13> if in python I returned the length of each file (the packets file) and found one with the most packets, could I do it that way?
[13:20] <Hix> hah, my board is only 50x50 and trace to ant is right by the pad so should be ok
[13:20] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: you could, but to do that you have to compute the packetised version of every file
[13:20] <Randomskk> just like
[13:20] <Randomskk> well
[13:21] <ibanezmatt13> i know what you mean
[13:21] <Randomskk> conceptually: when you're ready to transmit a new image, have python get the list of all files in the directory, take only those that are new since last transmission, go through each file and get its size, select the largest sized file, transmit that file
[13:21] <Randomskk> you might do the "take only those that are new since last transmission" by deleting or moving all files in the directory before you start each transmission
[13:21] <mfa298> depending on how much space you have to store images you might not want to store the packets version of the file for every image.
[13:22] <Randomskk> or you might do it by just keeping a record of the last file you considered and starting there next time
[13:22] <Randomskk> getting file size is fairly easy
[13:22] <ibanezmatt13> is it?
[13:22] <Randomskk> os.stat("file.jpg")[6]
[13:22] <Randomskk> import os first
[13:22] <ibanezmatt13> what does the [6] do?
[13:22] <Randomskk> or os.path.getsize()
[13:22] <Randomskk> stat returns a 10-member tuple
[13:23] <Randomskk> just use os.path.getsize, on reflection
[13:23] <Randomskk> import os.path
[13:23] <Randomskk> s = os.path.getsize("file.jpg")
[13:23] <ibanezmatt13> if I just import os, will it still work
[13:23] <fsphil> oh much easier
[13:23] <Randomskk> not really any easier than os.stat("file.jpg")[6]. in fact longer to type.
[13:23] <Randomskk> but yea
[13:23] <Randomskk> "simpler"
[13:23] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: I don't think path gets imported as part of os, so no.
[13:23] <ibanezmatt13> alright, thanks :)
[13:24] <griffonbot> Received email: Ian2E0XOD "[UKHAS] Re: Request for permission to use images from peoples flights"
[13:24] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] Transmit power of HAB's"
[13:24] <Randomskk> for file in os.listdir("/directory/path"):
[13:24] <griffonbot> Received email: Geoff Mather "[UKHAS] Re: Falcon - Launch announcement (25th of May)"
[13:24] <griffonbot> Received email: chris hillcox "[UKHAS] Re: BABSHAB launch - Great Tew, Saturday 25th May-Monday 27th
[13:24] <griffonbot> Received email: Geoff Mather "[UKHAS] Re: Planned Launch - Saturday"
[13:24] <mfa298> easiest way to find out is to try it
[13:24] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Sunday 26th May"
[13:24] <Randomskk> s = os.path.getsize(file)
[13:24] <Randomskk> hello emails
[13:24] <mattbrejza> so all mods are either working or been afk all weekend it seems
[13:24] <fsphil> list burp
[13:25] <jonsowman> who did that
[13:25] <jonsowman> lol
[13:25] <Randomskk> not guilty
[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: will i have to import os.listdir separately as well?
[13:26] <Randomskk> no
[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[13:26] <Randomskk> just `import os` and `import os.path`
[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> thanks :)
[13:26] <Randomskk> (path is a submodule of os)
[13:26] <jonsowman> Geoff-G8DHE_: ping when you're around
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> Is there a way to choose the largest value of some variables in python?
[13:27] <Babs> Geoff-G8DHE - sorry, went out for a cycle - thanks for the pano, really really interesting, plus the kmz file. Going to use that to try and map some of the things i saw through the camera to real life location names. cheers
[13:28] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: max() will return the largest value in a list
[13:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Pong
[13:28] <Randomskk> but then you have to check which file was responsible
[13:28] <Randomskk> so you might find it _simpler_ to just check as you go through the loop
[13:28] Action: fsphil declares this Battery Check Monday -- I've had so many batteries fail due to discharging I've made a point of going around and making sure they're all charged in one go
[13:28] <jonsowman> hi Geoff-G8DHE, could I suggest that you create a wiki page and put all the panos o there instead of emailing each one? it adds quite a lot to list volume
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> i see
[13:29] <Randomskk> best_file = ""; biggest_size = 0;
[13:29] <Randomskk> for file in os.listdir("/dir"):
[13:29] <Randomskk> size = os.path.getsize(file)
[13:29] <jonsowman> Geoff-G8DHE: also perhaps additionally email just the flight owner if you wish
[13:29] <Randomskk> if size > biggest_size:
[13:29] <Randomskk> best_file = file
[13:29] <Randomskk> transmit(best_file)
[13:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup can do
[13:30] <jonsowman> Geoff-G8DHE: thanks, there's a lot of people signed up to the list purely to receive launch annoucements, so we try and keep the volume down as much as possible
[13:30] <jonsowman> thank you :)
[13:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> No problem
[13:30] <jonsowman> you're welcome to send an email to the list saying "from now on, panos are here: <link>"
[13:30] <ibanezmatt13> I must say, Randomskk that was very very helpful.
[13:31] <Randomskk> once you learn the deep magic of list comprehensions you could do this stuff in a much more succinct form
[13:31] <Randomskk> but it's less clear than that expanded example I wrote
[13:31] <ibanezmatt13> I'm gonna go through and comment everything so I understand exactly what happens
[13:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> I was thinking of doing that anyway, actually, just hadn't got round to finishing the Index page on the site as it was a spur of the moment creation when I first did them!
[13:32] <mfa298> wow, someone learning code that sees the importance of commenting things :D
[13:32] <jonsowman> Geoff-G8DHE: great
[13:32] <Hix> mfa298: comments ftw
[13:33] <Randomskk> best_file = max((os.path.getsize(f), f) for f in os.listdir("dir/"))[1]
[13:33] <mfa298> normally you only learn how useful they are when going back to code you wrote years ago, or you're trying to debug someone elses code.
[13:33] <Randomskk> ^ one line version
[13:34] <ibanezmatt13> The code looks great, but when you say "file", won't this only do it for one file?
[13:34] <Randomskk> hm?
[13:35] <ibanezmatt13> if we want the biggest file, that checks only one file doesn't it?
[13:35] <Randomskk> the code returns the filename of the largest file in the directory
[13:35] <ibanezmatt13> now that makes good sense :)
[13:36] <ibanezmatt13> so when you say size=os.path.getsize(file) what do I write instead of file?
[13:37] <Randomskk> nothing
[13:37] <Randomskk> note `for file in os.listdir("dir/")`
[13:37] <ibanezmatt13> So I just do ()
[13:37] <Randomskk> file gets updated every loop iteration
[13:37] <Randomskk> it's a variable
[13:37] Tommo_ (51b2ea40@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Quit: Page closed
[13:38] <ibanezmatt13> Oh right, so it's size=os.path.getsize(file) and the file in the parameters doesn't change. I see
[13:38] anerDev (~anerDev@host119-55-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #highaltitude.
[13:39] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: it's probably best to use the longer version until you start to understand the code better as it's easier to see what's happening and write comments against it.
[13:39] <ibanezmatt13> for file in os.listdir("dir/") this one?
[13:40] <mfa298> the shorter version is good when you can understand what it's doing better
[13:40] <ibanezmatt13> you mean the really long one line one?
[13:41] <mfa298> by shorter version I meant the one all on one line.
[13:41] <ibanezmatt13> oh right :)
[13:41] <mfa298> the long version being the one spread over 6 lines of code
[13:42] <ibanezmatt13> that's the one I understand more :)
[13:42] <ibanezmatt13> what if the size is less than the biggest size?
[13:43] <Randomskk> then nothing will happen, which is what you want, because it means it's already found a better image than the one currently under consideration
[13:43] <Randomskk> do you understand what the for loop does?
[13:43] <mfa298> you might want to look up conditional statements (if..then..else)
[13:43] <LeoBodnar> Here is the tracker I was talking about. I have no idea what I am doing. http://leobodnar.com/files/IMG_1209.jpg http://leobodnar.com/files/IMG_1210.jpg
[13:44] <ibanezmatt13> It
[13:44] <ibanezmatt13> I think so*
[13:45] <mfa298> understanding the conditional statements (if..then..else) and for loops is good as they're the basis of most computer languages.
[13:46] <ibanezmatt13> I thought I understood these, but it's quite apparent I dont...
[13:46] cn8dn (6dbe23ba@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[13:46] <Randomskk> it may be helpful to try and work out what the computer will be doing, line by line
[13:46] <cn8dn> hello
[13:46] <Randomskk> the crucial thing is how the "for" loop makes it keep looping around
[13:46] <Randomskk> especially in python where it's a little different to a C for loop
[13:47] <ibanezmatt13> so that for loop simply keeps it going until the getsize function finds the largest file?
[13:47] <Randomskk> no
[13:47] <Randomskk> it keeps going through all the files in the directory
[13:47] <costyn> LeoBodnar: looks nice!
[13:47] <Randomskk> and while doing so, works out if the current file under consideration is bigger than anything seen before
[13:47] <Randomskk> and if so, notes it down
[13:47] <Randomskk> `for file in os.listdir("dir/"):`
[13:48] chrisstubbs (~chrisstub@host86-160-129-81.range86-160.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[13:48] <cn8dn> please
[13:48] <cn8dn> have software
[13:48] <Randomskk> os.listdir("dir/") returns a list of file names -- all the files in the directory dir/
[13:48] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[13:48] <cn8dn> raspberry pi
[13:48] <Randomskk> for file in os.listdir("dir"): will run a loop, executing the code inside the loop once per entry in that os.listdir list, with the variable `file` updated each time to the new filename
[13:49] <Randomskk> try running this code to make it clearer
[13:49] <Randomskk> for file in os.listdir("."):
[13:49] <Randomskk> print file
[13:49] <cn8dn> ball
[13:49] <Randomskk> it will print out the names of all the files in the current directory
[13:49] <ibanezmatt13> I understand that part
[13:49] <Randomskk> if you understand why it does that you should be able to work out how the rest of the code works
[13:50] <LeoBodnar> I have found that patch antenna works better than the helical one. http://leobodnar.com/files/IMG_1211.jpg
[13:50] <ibanezmatt13> let me just type the code up and I'll see what it looks like. I'm jotting everything in a notepad and it looks a bit messy
[13:51] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: the best way to learn is start small and built it up - and keep running what you've written.
[13:52] <mfa298> when I'm experimenting with something new I'll often write a couple of lines of code, run it and see what happens. Then build up a bit more code.
[13:52] <ibanezmatt13> I can't run it yet because I have no images and certainly no packet files...
[13:53] <Randomskk> so make a folder with some fake images
[13:53] <mfa298> for just testing for the largest file you don't need images. You just need a set of files.
[13:53] <Randomskk> get some cat GIFs off the internet
[13:53] <Hix> LeoBodnar: i believe the quadrafilar are more effective when orientation canot be guaranteed
[13:53] <Randomskk> mfa298 is correct but you'll find it's more fun with cat GIFs
[13:53] <ibanezmatt13> I could just take some images with my webcam now
[13:53] <Randomskk> everyone loves cat GIFs
[13:54] <ibanezmatt13> cat GIFs, lol
[13:54] <Hix> yup: The SL1250 antenna is ideal in applications where:
[13:54] <Hix> • the device is handheld, body-worn, or otherwise surrounded by high-dielectric materials that would de-tune conventional antennas;
[13:54] <Hix> • the antenna is tightly integrated with other antennas, e.g., Bluetooth®/GPS receivers or GPS/GSM mobile phones;
[13:54] <Hix> • there are tight constraints on the size of the device or the amount of space allocated to ground planes;
[13:54] <Hix> • the orientation of the device is random; or
[13:54] <Hix> • the antenna will be embedded in the device.
[13:54] <Hix> ooh, sorry
[13:54] <mfa298> When I did my Uni 3rd year project based on image processing my initial test data were 3x3 8bit images - because that gave data I could easily print out and check what was happening.
[13:54] <Randomskk> edge conditions must have been awful :)
[13:55] <ibanezmatt13> I'll take 20 images now
[13:55] <Randomskk> ;) *
[13:55] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: cover the camera with your hand for some images, or point at the ceiling, or half at the ceiling
[13:55] <Randomskk> to simulate having differing amounts of intrestingness in the image
[13:55] <mfa298> Hix: there are much worse things to accidentally paste :p
[13:55] <Hix> heh
[13:56] <mfa298> unless you have a really long password. But trying to get that lot right within three attempts much by impossible
[13:56] <cn8dn> please price ?
[13:56] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: I did that just then I have 4 very different images stored in /home/pi/Images
[13:56] <Randomskk> good. then in /home/pi/send_image.py (or whatever you want to call it)
[13:56] <Randomskk> for file in os.listdir("Images"):
[13:57] <Randomskk> print os.path.getsize(file)
[13:57] <Randomskk> (be sure to import os and import os.path first)
[13:57] <ibanezmatt13> I'll do that now
[13:57] <Randomskk> you may find it more obvious if you
[13:57] iain_G4SGX (~iain@ joined #highaltitude.
[13:57] <Randomskk> print file, os.path.getsize(file)
[13:57] <costyn> cn8dn: what are you looking for? we do not sell anything here
[13:57] <costyn> cn8dn: the raspberry software is not for sale
[13:58] <costyn> cn8dn: at least the custom software used yesterday
[13:58] daveake (~Dave@daveake.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[13:59] <cn8dn> I seek not the modules for a ball than
[13:59] <ibanezmatt13> didn't work
[13:59] <ibanezmatt13> No such file or directory
[13:59] <costyn> cn8dn: are you using Google Translate?
[13:59] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: your script is most likely in the wrong place
[13:59] <Randomskk> and note that it's case sensitive
[13:59] <cn8dn> yes
[13:59] <LeoBodnar> I wonder if one ground plane can be used for GPS and UHF to separate them and enhance radiation pattern. Aluminised mylar maybe?
[14:00] <Randomskk> you could do os.listdir("/home/pi/Images")
[14:00] <costyn> cn8dn: I'm sorry but it is not working; I do not know what you are asking
[14:00] <ibanezmatt13> I did exaclt that
[14:00] <Randomskk> make sure that's actually the directory path then
[14:00] <cn8dn> je cherche les module pour mettre dans un ballon
[14:01] <ibanezmatt13> I would like a module in order to something in the balloon
[14:01] <costyn> cn8dn: you want to put a raspberry pi under a balloon?
[14:01] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: I'm pretty sure it is...
[14:02] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Sunday 26th May"
[14:02] <cn8dn> or another pack
[14:02] <anerDev> hi guys !
[14:02] <cn8dn> ready to fly
[14:02] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Sunday 26th May"
[14:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> jonsowman Did anything come of the UKHAS-launches group that was going to be created ?
[14:03] <costyn> cn8dn: we make our own, which require knowledge of electronics and radio
[14:03] <cn8dn> do you have link
[14:03] number10 (56aacfba@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[14:04] <ibanezmatt13> I ran this code: for file in os.listdir('/home/pi/Images') ; print os.path.getsize(file)
[14:04] <anerDev> guys, the gas for the balloon is the helium ?
[14:04] <costyn> cn8dn: http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[14:04] <anerDev> or the best, for the cost, is the helium methane or hydrogen ?
[14:04] <chrisstubbs> anerDev, hydrogen is cheaper
[14:05] <costyn> anerDev: for your first launch, go with helium
[14:05] <chrisstubbs> but helium seems to be easier
[14:05] <cn8dn> than
[14:05] <costyn> anerDev: but hydrogen is cheaper but much more dangerous
[14:05] <anerDev> uhmm
[14:05] <daveake> get helium
[14:05] <daveake> end of
[14:05] <chrisstubbs> Hydrogen requires specialist regulators and hoses. helium can be used with a balloon inflator and garden hose
[14:05] <anerDev> because in my place sale 8 m^3 = 160 ¬
[14:05] <anerDev> ook
[14:05] <daveake> yes that's same here
[14:05] <costyn> anerDev: that's actually a good pirce
[14:06] <anerDev> ook
[14:06] <costyn> anerDev: I paid 120 for 3 m^3
[14:06] <daveake> but for a normal flight you only need 3-4
[14:06] <number10> 8 pages I hope by now Randomskk
[14:06] <Randomskk> you'd be lucky
[14:06] <anerDev> because my payload +-1.200 Kg
[14:06] <jonsowman> hehe
[14:06] <anerDev> http://d.pr/i/GJn4
[14:06] <Randomskk> number10: but I have successfully got latex headers, footers, font, layout all sorted
[14:07] <costyn> anerDev: yes, so 3.5 m^3 helium
[14:07] <number10> OK... get to it Randomskk - I expect 5 pages by 8 this evening
[14:07] <anerDev> ook is very hight the price !
[14:07] <anerDev> :/
[14:07] <Randomskk> hehe I'll do my best
[14:07] Action: mfa298 suspects Randomskk is managing one word in the report, one word in IRC
[14:07] <costyn> anerDev: unfortunately yes, but for your first launch you should use helium
[14:07] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: It works in the /home/pi directory, but nowhere else. I'll keep experimenting
[14:07] <Randomskk> mfa298: that'd be a good radio
[14:08] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: you can put the absolute path to the directory, like os.listdir("/home/pi/Images") and it should work from anywhere
[14:08] <iain_G4SGX> cn8dn: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi
[14:08] <Randomskk> if you only put a relative path (no / at the start), like os.path.listdir("Images"), it'l only work from /home/pi
[14:08] <anerDev> tomorrow I will order PAWAN 1200 and the 42in Spherachute
[14:08] <ibanezmatt13> I see, I'll keep trying
[14:09] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: if it doesn't work with a full path like Randomskk just said and it still fails try running "ls /home/pi/Images" from a command line.
[14:09] <daveake> 42"? how heavy is your payload?
[14:10] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: the ls function works, but it won't run the program from anywhere unless the images are loose in /home/pi...
[14:10] <daveake> oh 1.2kg
[14:10] <anerDev> yeah ! :7
[14:10] <anerDev> :/
[14:10] <daveake> quite heavy then, and 42 is about right from memory
[14:11] <mfa298> is the path exactly the same in your script as the ls command (including capitals)
[14:11] <anerDev> 1 kg is good ? daveake
[14:11] <daveake> er lighter is always better
[14:12] <costyn> anerDev: you have the superduper arduino shield stack payload right?
[14:12] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: yep
[14:12] <costyn> anerDev: ;)
[14:13] <anerDev> costyn I have many shield
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[14:13] <daveake> oh, that one
[14:13] <fsphil> hah
[14:13] <anerDev> sorry guys, we meet lather ! I
[14:13] <anerDev> later
[14:13] <daveake> no lather
[14:14] <fsphil> rinse and repeat
[14:14] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: did the python script give any errors ?
[14:14] <anerDev> my payload have a shit weight ! :ç
[14:14] <daveake> Well, it is a ridiculously large tracker
[14:14] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: no such file or directory: image.jpg
[14:14] <fsphil> you could track it visually
[14:14] <Randomskk> uhm, why does it have jpg there ibanezmatt13?
[14:14] <costyn> anerDev: please post a picture
[14:15] <ibanezmatt13> it's a picture :)
[14:15] <Randomskk> the directory is a picture?
[14:15] <Randomskk> oh!
[14:15] <Randomskk> hang on
[14:15] <Randomskk> I see what's happening.
[14:15] <iain_G4SGX> Afternoon guys, did PIE get recovered OK yesterday?
[14:15] <Randomskk> os.listdir() gives you file names
[14:15] <Randomskk> os.path.getsize() requires paths to files
[14:15] <ibanezmatt13> so it's the other way round
[14:15] <Randomskk> you should try something like os.path.getsize("/home/pi/Images/" + file)
[14:15] <craag> iain_G4SGX: Yep, it had already been picked up and taken home by someone, who then called Dave.
[14:15] <daveake> Is it this? http://www.cbc.ca/nl/community/blog/iStock_000008357749Medium_Pile%20of%20Pancakes.JPG
[14:16] <Randomskk> or, better:
[14:16] <costyn> daveake: haha
[14:16] <Randomskk> imgdir = "/home/pi/Images/"
[14:16] <daveake> iain_G4SGX yes :)
[14:16] <Randomskk> for file in os.listdir(imgdir):
[14:16] <Randomskk> print file, os.path.getsize(imgdir + file)
[14:16] <fsphil> mmmm pancakes
[14:16] <costyn> daveake: superstack;reminds me of 3Com superstack switches
[14:16] <anerDev> costyn we meet lather, sorry !
[14:16] <ibanezmatt13> I'll try that
[14:16] <costyn> Randomsk / ibanezmatt13 : cna you guys take your debugging/troubleshooting in a private session please?
[14:17] <fsphil> this is interesting :)
[14:17] <mfa298> costyn: why did you have to bring up bad memories (3Com switches)
[14:17] <ibanezmatt13> I think I've got it, I'll try not to interupt...
[14:18] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: this is where starting with a few simple lines and building up can be useful. I would probably have started off with the for file and a print line.
[14:18] <iain_G4SGX> Nice one.. I wrote my first bit of pic code in 15yrs today. Things have changed in pic world, lot of catching up to do.
[14:19] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: yeah :) Randomskk: It didn't work :(
[14:20] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 General comment - it's probably going to help yuo learn if, when something doesn't work, you spend a bit of time figuring out why not. Then ask when you get stuck :)
[14:21] <ibanezmatt13> Advice recieved :)
[14:27] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] Re: BABSHAB launch - Great Tew, Saturday 25th May-Monday 27th
[14:27] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] Re: Transmit power of HAB's"
[14:27] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Sunday 26th May"
[14:30] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Transmit power of HAB's"
[14:31] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[14:31] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Sunday 26th May"
[14:34] <fsphil> nice
[14:36] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Sunday 26th May"
[14:39] <griffonbot> Received email: Philip Heron "Re: [UKHAS] Transmit power of HAB's"
[14:40] <fsphil> had to join in
[14:41] <chrisstubbs> ritty
[14:42] <chrisstubbs> the probelm with IRC is i have no idea how these things are usually pronounced
[14:42] <zyp> iain_G4SGX, is there even anything left of the pic world?
[14:42] <chrisstubbs> ritty or arr-tee-tee-why
[14:43] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Sunday 26th May"
[14:44] <fsphil> I usually spell it
[14:44] <fsphil> ritty just doesn't sound right to me
[14:45] <mfa298> could try adding different vowels to make it pronoucable
[14:46] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Sunday 26th May"
[14:46] <fsphil> retty
[14:46] <fsphil> ratty
[14:46] <mfa298> ratty
[14:46] <zyp> of course, you could always just say «radioteletype»
[14:49] <fsphil> true
[14:50] <mfa298> why would you ever want to do that :P
[14:51] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Sunday 26th May"
[14:56] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Sunday 26th May"
[14:58] <costyn> daveake: you still have something to aspire to http://awesome.naquadah.org/images/6mon.medium.png
[14:58] <fsphil> !!
[14:58] <costyn> for when you take IRC so seriously you need 2 extra monitors for it
[14:59] <daveake> Already have 6 :)
[14:59] <costyn> daveake: err... :)
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[15:00] Action: fsphil has screen envy
[15:01] <mfa298> i've found that for some stuff more monitors doesn't always help. They end up being too far away so you don't see what's happening.
[15:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> and then this http://tinyurl.com/bub2ot4
[15:02] <mfa298> (unless there's a big red indicator on them to tell you when everythings broken)
[15:02] <iain_G4SGX> zyp; Of course. The Pi is popular but who really needs a whole linux o/s for this sort of app? Seems a bit over the top to me but can see its appeal.
[15:03] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Sunday 26th May"
[15:03] <chrisstubbs> darn dominos minium order is £9
[15:04] <chrisstubbs> £9.99, looks like im getting 2 pizzas with that 50% off deal :P
[15:04] <daveake> iain_G4SGX The appeal (for HAB) is that it makes SSDV cheap and easy
[15:04] <fsphil> a Pi A + camera is cheaper than the uart camera alone
[15:04] <fsphil> madness really
[15:05] <daveake> Indeed. And much higher res, so you can take full size images as well as the low res SSDV ones
[15:06] <daveake> Also, if say you want 3G backup, add a dongle and you've got it. And once you have, you can use it for live streaming on the ground, or ftp-ing images after landiing, or whatever.
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[15:08] <iain_G4SGX> Havent thought about the camera yet, but the pic's got a high speed USB port and a USB library availavble so shouldn't be an issue eventually.
[15:09] <chrisstubbs> SSDV on a pic sounds horrific :P
[15:09] <iain_G4SGX> why?
[15:09] <daveake> There are PICs and PICs
[15:09] <iain_G4SGX> clock frequency on mine is 64 Mhz
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[15:09] <fsphil> chrisstubbs: it's been done on a PIC32
[15:10] <chrisstubbs> I could imagine trying to do it on a pic16f84a
[15:10] <fsphil> well no
[15:10] <LeoBodnar> PICs don't have high speed USB ports, only full speed
[15:11] <fsphil> 68 bytes of Data RAM
[15:11] <fsphil> ver yno
[15:11] <fsphil> very no*
[15:11] <iain_G4SGX> I think you maybe had better look at the more recent micros, they have upped their game to compete with the PI etc.
[15:11] <chrisstubbs> What i mean is i couldn't imagine it :P
[15:11] <fsphil> you need at least 1kB
[15:11] <fsphil> 2kB probably
[15:11] <iain_G4SGX> Mines got 128K program memory and 4K ram
[15:12] <fsphil> that's plenty
[15:12] <fsphil> brb
[15:12] <iain_G4SGX> And some rather novel new addressing modes to speed things up on certain procedures.
[15:14] <iain_G4SGX> Yeh USB is full speed only though , 12Mb/s
[15:14] <zyp> iain_G4SGX, I'm not referring to the pi, I'm referring to cortex-m
[15:15] <LeoBodnar> Arduino Due has Cortex M3 ARM processor with high speed USB
[15:15] <iain_G4SGX> Ah I see.. True indee.
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[15:17] <iain_G4SGX> I'm a bit of an old git so plan to use assembler. I've written Usart routines for pics before and still have my notes somewhere.
[15:17] <zyp> and quite honestly rpi is a toy
[15:17] <zyp> outside of a hobbyist setting it's not competing with anything
[15:18] <iain_G4SGX> Its created a lot of interest though.. This hobby has seen a resurgence of interest because of its availability and price.
[15:18] <LeoBodnar> G4SGX, I am codung PIC24Fs and dsPIC33 in assembly :)
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[15:19] <LeoBodnar> *coding
[15:19] <iain_G4SGX> LeoBodnar: Wooh. I'm sticking to 8 bit so i dont have to re-learn too much! lol.
[15:21] <iain_G4SGX> Beer and parties in the last 15yrs has addled my brain ! Finding it much harder to assimilate new info.
[15:23] <LeoBodnar> Then look at PIC24s, all the same but 16 working registers. I have also started about 15 years ago. When Atmel was not even on the horizon :)
[15:24] <LeoBodnar> Blimey, make it 20
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[15:29] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: I have finally succeeded. I went through line by line and discovered that I needed to reset the best_image size which I didn't do, and I needed to print the best_image name out of the loop. All is good now though. :) https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5657583
[15:30] <chrisstubbs> Nice work ibanezmatt13 :)
[15:30] <Randomskk> looks good! however it will still only work if you're in the correct directory I think?
[15:30] <Randomskk> if you have
[15:30] <Randomskk> imgdir = "/home/pi/images"
[15:30] <ibanezmatt13> Yes you're right, that's ok though
[15:30] <Randomskk> then use os.listdir(imgdir) and os.path.getsize(imgdir+file)
[15:30] <Randomskk> it should work from anywhere
[15:30] <Randomskk> and be easier to change
[15:30] <ibanezmatt13> I'll try that now
[15:31] <Randomskk> also, I should have mentioned this earlier, but using file as a variable name isn't the best idea as it'l hide the actual file library stuff
[15:31] <Randomskk> perhaps rename it to fname (short for filename)
[15:31] <ibanezmatt13> My Mum's shouting at me to come down for my desert :) Just give me two minutes
[15:31] <Randomskk> sure.
[15:31] <Randomskk> (dessert at 4.30pm? I'm jealous!)
[15:31] <Randomskk> unless you actually meant desert :P
[15:32] <ibanezmatt13> I'm back now, yeah I meant dessert :)
[15:32] <number10> 1.5 pages done Randomskk ?
[15:33] <Randomskk> maybe
[15:33] <number10> :)
[15:33] <Randomskk> probably not far off 1.5 pages
[15:33] <Randomskk> not convinced by quality
[15:33] <number10> thats good
[15:33] <Randomskk> apparently I've forgotten how to write anything
[15:33] <number10> well quality isnt good
[15:34] <Randomskk> I kinda know many things I want to say and none of them are coming out. the prose is stilted at best
[15:34] <Randomskk> sigh
[15:34] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: That doesn't work...
[15:34] <number10> maybe itsits lack of sleep
[15:34] <number10> its
[15:34] <Randomskk> I've slept loads
[15:34] <Randomskk> :(
[15:35] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: sorry, imgdir="/home/pi/images/"
[15:35] <Randomskk> note trailing slash
[15:35] <Randomskk> so that when you +fname, it forms a full path
[15:35] <ibanezmatt13> Yep, it works now. Thanks :)
[15:38] <ibanezmatt13> I've got another program which basically does this a = os.system('sudo python bestimage.py') ; print a basically, it inputs what another program outputs.
[15:38] <ibanezmatt13> It works slightly
[15:38] <ibanezmatt13> The program returns the file name I want but with a 0 on the next line...
[15:39] <ibanezmatt13> I need to input the output of the bestimage program into another program.
[15:39] <Randomskk> I don't think os.system returns the output of the program you ran
[15:39] <ibanezmatt13> nor do I, I'm not sure what does
[15:39] <Randomskk> submodule.check_output()
[15:40] <Randomskk> uh
[15:40] <Randomskk> subprocess
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[15:40] <Randomskk> import subprocess; result = subprocess.check_output("some_program whatever")
[15:40] <ibanezmatt13> I'll give it a go
[15:41] <mfa298> ultimately it's probably best to make your best image code into a routine/function you can call within the program that sends the ssdv/telemetry data.
[15:41] <mfa298> whilst it's not likely to be an issue here calling an external program is generally a low process
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[15:43] <ibanezmatt13> I doubt I'm doing this correctly, result = subprocess.check_output("here I think i messed up") print result
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[15:43] <ibanezmatt13> I was thinking of making this program executable instead or a python program
[15:44] <ibanezmatt13> *of a python program
[15:45] <mfa298> if you've coding in python its probably best to stick with the python stuff for now for debugging
[15:46] <ibanezmatt13> ok, so when i did result = subprocess.check_output(what goes here) what goes there?
[15:46] <mfa298> in terms of calling out to other external programs that's a slow operation regardless of whether the language is interperated or compiled - that's down to how the operating system works.
[15:46] <ibanezmatt13> Is there a more efficient way of doing what I need to do?
[15:46] <mfa298> I assume the program your calling. However you know more python programming than I do.
[15:47] <mfa298> I think you're script to get the best image you're effectivly using like a routine/function so it might be better to impliment it like that (within your existing code)
[15:48] <mfa298> I assume python allows you to have functions/sub routines
[15:48] <ibanezmatt13> It does
[15:48] <ibanezmatt13> So I should run everything in one script?
[15:49] <mfa298> you know your code best so you're the only person that can decide that for sure but I suspect having that bit of code in your code that sends the ssdv/telemetry would make sense
[15:50] <mfa298> however for learning how bits work and testing out parts of the code small scripts like you've just done can be a good idea.
[15:51] <LeoBodnar> What is Pi's power consumption?
[15:51] <ibanezmatt13> In fact, that makes sense. I could have one program handle pictures + transmission, and have another for gps + transmission. And yes, I agree
[15:51] <ibanezmatt13> LeoBodnar: Model B, about 450mA, Model Aa is less
[15:51] <daveake> B = 2W A=0.55W
[15:51] <mfa298> if you've got two programs trying to talk to the same radio transmitter you might have issues
[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> perhaps it's a good idea to just have everything in its own function within one script
[15:53] <daveake> On my Pi tracker, I have 1 script for taking images and a C program that does the rtty (and runs the SSDV program when needed)
[15:53] <LeoBodnar> 2W? This is huge for what essentially is a glue logic.
[15:53] <mfa298> I would probably split out the captuting images into a cronjob and then have another script that handles gps, radio and selecting the next image to send
[15:53] <fsphil> wonder if running the Pi slower would help
[15:53] <daveake> 2 reasons. 1 is that photos take a while and this allows the telemetry to keep running throughout
[15:54] <daveake> 2nd is that it can take several images over a period, then choose which to send
[15:54] <daveake> CPU speed doesn't make much difference on the Pi
[15:54] <fsphil> aww
[15:54] <daveake> A lot of the power on the B is the USB/NIC chip
[15:54] <ibanezmatt13> That makes sense, thanks :)
[15:54] <fsphil> I set it at 200mhz, not sure if it honoured it
[15:55] <daveake> dunno. It probably idles a lot
[15:55] <mfa298> I think I'd end up using C as well for the Pi and potentially with a couple of threads - but I'm not sure you can do threaded programming easily in python
[15:55] <ibanezmatt13> I'll experiment. But I'm definitely gonna learn C at some point
[15:55] <fsphil> yep, 200mhz is slow
[15:56] <ibanezmatt13> I already know a bit, but I can't find a decent compiler which runs it properly for me
[15:56] <daveake> I actually have the GPS code in a separate program, so I can grab the altitude easily (via shared memory) for adding to the batc stream
[15:56] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: I'd get to be happy with python first. Then you should find learning C is easier as you already know the basic concepts
[15:56] <ibanezmatt13> good idea :)
[15:56] Action: fsphil tries 10mhz
[15:57] <LeoBodnar> I need time to soak this in. I just finished a VHF beacon design that had 0.4mA current draw including transmitter.
[15:57] <mfa298> for C the most used compiler for Linux/Unix is gcc which works well
[15:57] <fsphil> hah, 10mhz is painful
[15:57] <fsphil> but it's doing it
[15:58] <fsphil> gonna take a while to boot
[16:00] <LeoBodnar> * 18mA when transmitting, 0.040mA when idling
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[16:00] <mfa298> ouch, I think the slowest CPU I've booted linux on was 66MHz.
[16:00] <mfa298> but that was probably linux 2.2 or an early 2.4 kernel
[16:00] <fsphil> 486?
[16:00] <mfa298> yes
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> I think here...
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> 16mhz
[16:01] <LeoBodnar> I tried version 0.2 in 90's on I don't remember what
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> 386sx
[16:01] <LeoBodnar> It came on two floppies.
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> X was not fast.
[16:01] <fsphil> still impressed that the amiga at 8mhz had a useable gui
[16:01] <fsphil> just about
[16:02] <mfa298> I think my first Linux was Redhat 5.1 (the first time they had 5.1 rather than the 5.1 from a couple of years ago)
[16:02] <fsphil> redhat linux
[16:02] <fsphil> I've a 4.2 disk somewhere
[16:02] <fsphil> my first ever linux distro
[16:02] <fsphil> I hated it
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[16:04] <SpeedEvil> https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=42142 - on a related topic
[16:04] <SpeedEvil> - $15 the size of a couple of postage stamps, and faster in every way than my first PC
[16:05] <mfa298> I realise I might have told a lie. In terms of MHz the slowest CPU was 40MHz (Sparc Station 2)
[16:05] <fsphil> still booting
[16:06] <mfa298> with a 105Mb hard drive that needed percausive maintenance when it had been off for a while
[16:06] <fsphil> no networking yet
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> http://shop.8devices.com/wifi4things/carambola2
[16:07] <fsphil> percausive maintenance, like that
[16:08] <LeoBodnar> When in Uni in 80s I made a copy of IBM PC including original 4.77MHz 8086.
[16:08] <mfa298> I think that range of drives were known for having that issue
[16:09] <LeoBodnar> Were they IBM drives?
[16:10] <mfa298> I think it was seagate.
[16:11] <LeoBodnar> We had a sticky IBM in AS/400
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> I think it was pretty much a general problem
[16:13] <LeoBodnar> The rumour of the day was that IBM had internal document prescribing service engineers to revive stuck drive by dropping it from strictly predetermined hight onto a desk.
[16:14] <mfa298> that sounds familiar
[16:14] <LeoBodnar> Anybody remember hard drives with removable platters the size of the washing machine?
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[16:15] <mfa298> i remember seeing them on tv/films but they're a bit before my time
[16:15] <SpeedEvil> I dismantled one
[16:15] <LeoBodnar> Where Linux is bleeding the power then? Is it not going to sleep mode or something similar between bursts of activity?
[16:15] <SpeedEvil> Somewhere I've got a 24" platter
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: In what context?
[16:16] <LeoBodnar> Why idling Linux system needs 100s mA of current?
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: Depends.
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> A) The hardware can't idle below that.
[16:18] <mfa298> i wonder if the gpu gets slowed down as well or if that's still running at full rate
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> B) Linux does not have drivers, because the documentation hasn't been released or there has been no work on them
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> Do you mean in the context of the Pi?
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> If so - the networking chip actually uses the most when idle.
[16:19] <mfa298> i was thinking of the Pi as I think thats where this started from
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> My n900 phone uses about 6mA idle@4C
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> V
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> But the pi has no proper powersaving at all.
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> If it can do better if the sofrware is optimised is anohter question
[16:22] <mfa298> for most people the power used by the Pi would already be considered low power sothey probably dont care much about power saving
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> That too.
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> It only gets deeply annoying if you want to battery power it.
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> 200mA@5V is nothing.
[16:23] <mfa298> and save weight with as few batteries as possible
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> Till you want to have it run off a solar panel say
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> I worked out the amount needed to keep a pi running 24*7 on a solar panel here.
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> You end up needing a 250W solar panel.
[16:24] <mfa298> might be easier to move somewhere that gets a bit more sun
[16:24] <LeoBodnar> Or use pen and paper to do the calculations
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> (Dark winter days - short day length make it really painful
[16:28] <LeoBodnar> 400MHz is ridiculously high for this. By the time light travels from your laptop screen to your eyes Pi would have processed one instruction clock. All this to send RTTY data?
[16:29] <Randomskk> if the RTTY data is error coded compressed images, that seems fairly reasonable
[16:29] <Randomskk> the nature of the modulation doesn't really have much bearing on the computational power required to generate the data to be sent
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[16:31] <LeoBodnar> Apollo 13 guidance computer had 1MHz clock and 1K RAM. lol
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> And that wasn't 1MHz instruction rate
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[16:33] <ibanezmatt13> Managed to work this next part out too: https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5657583 I worked out how to move everything from one directory to another.
[16:33] <Babs_> You can do a bunch of stuff with 1K RAM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1K_ZX_Chess
[16:33] <Upu> evening all
[16:33] <Upu> hey Babs
[16:33] <Upu> how'd it go ?
[16:33] <Babs_> hey Upu
[16:33] <Randomskk> sure and the scout missiles were launched into orbit on paper tape
[16:33] <Randomskk> as eroomde is fond of reminding
[16:33] <chrisstubbs> Welcome back upu
[16:34] <Randomskk> but ram is very very cheap and lots of it means you can do useful interesting things quickly and even use high level languages!
[16:34] <Upu> cheers chrisstubbs
[16:34] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: well done (although I wonder if you can do it in python rather than having to use os.system
[16:34] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Upu :)
[16:34] <Upu> oh hi Matt just replied to your e-mail
[16:35] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks :) My Dad couldn't do Tuesday but posting was fine anyway
[16:36] <Babs_> Upu - Positives: all equipment recovered, stability gimbal worked really well - see http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8845053028/ (you have to watch it for a few seconds before you realise its a video and not a still), high speed impact after chute got tangled in balloon but the cage worked well and protected the equipment
[16:36] <Upu> that is stable wow
[16:36] <cuddykid> Babs_: is that custom made gimbal?
[16:37] <Babs_> Negatives: ascent rate was a lot slower than forecast - as the burst altitude was spot on one thought is that the large size of the balloon might have caused it a bit of extra air resistance on the way up. I'd been greedy on the intervalometer to set it for a 2 hrs 30 flight leaving no room for error
[16:37] <Babs_> meaning that i didn't get any photos above 28km
[16:37] <Babs_> :-(
[16:38] <Randomskk> wow that is stable
[16:38] <LeoBodnar> This python script is what is usually done in bash shell script on *nix, is it not?
[16:38] <Randomskk> is it passively stabalised Babs_ ?
[16:38] <Upu> did the cut down work Babs ?
[16:39] <Babs_> cuddykid - yes. Taught myself google sketchup which in reality was no great shakes. your iphone app was essential btw as the i had zero internet signal.
[16:39] <cuddykid> Babs_: nice - and great :D
[16:39] <ibanezmatt13> Is it possible to use the serial on the Pi when nothing is connected to it? I just want to see if my program returns any errors
[16:39] <Randomskk> yes
[16:39] <Babs_> upu - didn't fly it. Was lucky as there was little jetstream once it got up there. After about 2 mins of ascending at 2m/s there was a point where we thought we were going to have to call on fsphil to pick it up
[16:39] <mfa298> LeoBodnar: python is more of a programming language than just a shell script.
[16:40] <Randomskk> mfa298: python can be used for shell scripting just as effectively though
[16:40] <Upu> well congratulations that stabalisation rig really worked, fancy bringing it to the conference so we can see it ?
[16:41] <mfa298> I'd probably liken python to perl in terms of where it fits in the chain of languages.
[16:41] <Babs_> randomskk. no, passive. but here is a comparison with no stabilisation, the counterweights on but not spun up, and the counterweights spun up http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8689422745/in/set-72157632733154985
[16:42] <Babs_> Upu - no problems - some of the joints split when it hit the ground pretty hard but it will all fit together ok
[16:42] <Randomskk> Babs_: so spinning masses?
[16:42] <Randomskk> mfa298: disagree - it does things perl does but also you can write very large programs with it too
[16:43] <mfa298> You can do some pretty large things with perl as well.
[16:43] <Babs_> exactly randomskk. I found a scooter dealer in Kennington who gave me some scooter wheel balancing weights and mounted them on model robot wheels http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8462641974/in/set-72157632733154985
[16:43] <Randomskk> very cool
[16:43] <Randomskk> mfa298: you *can* but you definitely shouldn't :P
[16:45] <cuddykid> Upu: I'm going to need another tracker built if possible - no rush though - I'll work out the various components required tomorrow afternoon, after this exam is out the way with :)
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[16:46] <Upu> nps cuddykid
[16:46] <Upu> you supplying parts or shall I just bill you for it ?
[16:46] <cuddykid> I've got some spare GPS ants
[16:46] <Babs_> Upu..... http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8852335762/
[16:46] <mfa298> Randomskk: tell that to some of the people who've written programs used by a lot of academic institutions there's at least two decent sized bits of code used pretty widely that are perl.
[16:46] <cuddykid> Upu:apart from that - probably best for you to just bill me the rest
[16:47] <Upu> ok
[16:47] <Randomskk> mfa298: I do :P
[16:47] <Upu> that didn't seem that heavy Babs
[16:47] <Randomskk> these days I find fewer and fewer people willing to defend it
[16:47] <cuddykid> Babs_: did you just have motors spinning the weights?
[16:47] <Randomskk> back when perl was so popular perhaps sensible languages weren't as widespread
[16:47] <Randomskk> but in the face of python, ruby etc you'd be hard pressed to justify it
[16:47] <mfa298> true a lot of those sorts of things predate python being popular.
[16:48] <cuddykid> I see now - just seen the pics Babs_
[16:48] <Babs_> No phone signal and the forest got in the way of me being able to track it down, so it was lucky I had the spot as a backup
[16:48] <Babs_> cuddykid - if you are at the conference i'll bring it along to show you
[16:48] <cuddykid> should be :)
[16:49] <Babs_> It's probably patch-upable in a Millennium Falcon stylee for another flight
[16:49] <Babs_> Although I might just print another one out :-)
[16:49] <mfa298> but in terms of where they sit in terms of what you'de use the languages for I'd put perl, ruby, python in the same sort of area (probably with the likes of VB), pure shell scripting languages are a lot simpler in terms of what they can do.
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[17:09] <LeoBodnar> bash, sed, awk do 90% of what I ever needed. It is a shame people are getting Pi and skim through Unix stuff straight into higher level languages. Could have just as well got themselves Windows CE box.
[17:09] <ibanezmatt13> I've updated my code so that when it has decided what the best file is, the SSDV program splits it into packets. Everything works as I expected it to :)
[17:11] <ibanezmatt13> Is the following definitely correct for opening serial in python? serial.Serial('/dev/ttyAMA0', 300) ?
[17:12] <mfa298> LeoBodnar: agreed on the bash, sed, awk doing most of whats needed. I do a lot of systems documentation a lot of which uses sed to edit files.
[17:13] <mfa298> I'm fairly old fashioned in that I'd then move to perl if I need something that can't be done easily with sed, awk, grep, etc.
[17:18] <LeoBodnar> Too many options, but barebones solutions are elegant. Can Pi run realtime version of Linux?
[17:18] <LeoBodnar> This would be great for most control/robotics projects.
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[17:19] <zyp> LeoBodnar, no it wouldn't, the chip doesn't have much in the way of IO
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> zyp: It has quite a lot of IO
[17:20] <zyp> compared to what?
[17:25] <craag> For a lot of IO, the beaglebone black looks like a better solution.
[17:25] <craag> I don't know what it's RT support is like though.
[17:27] <zyp> craag, any decent microcontroller has more IO than the rpi
[17:27] <ibanezmatt13> In Python, how do you make variables so that they can be recognised in different functions. I tried 'global' but it didn't work
[17:27] <zyp> ibanezmatt13, usually you don't
[17:27] <craag> zyp: Yep, I've used SPI expanders, makes it all quite messy :(
[17:28] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: I don't know about python but generally global variables are frowned upon
[17:28] <zyp> ibanezmatt13, you can use «global» if you do it correctly, but nobody does that
[17:28] <mfa298> it's generally better to pass the variables to the function as part of the function call
[17:28] <zyp> usually you put the functions into a class and make them member variables
[17:29] <ibanezmatt13> I've heard that before. So, in my processpictures function, I have a variable called best_image. In my next function sendpictures, would I put best_image as an argument. E.g, sendpictures(best_image)
[17:30] <zyp> ibanezmatt13, you are new to programming, aren't you?
[17:30] <mfa298> I suspect you'de need your processpictures function to return the value of best_image to the calling function
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[17:31] <zyp> ibanezmatt13, you don't appear to fully understand functions and the way to use them
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[17:32] <craag> zyp: Yep he's new to it and learning steadily.
[17:33] <zyp> I'd suggest finding a good tutorial on how functions work and reading up on that
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[17:34] <ibanezmatt13> Sorry, my laptop shut down
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[17:41] <steve______> anyone know why I have to keep on 'burn bootloader' from Arduino IDE in order to successfully load a sketch? I otherwise get avrdude: verification error: content mismatch?
[17:42] <ibanezmatt13> I can't seem to pass the variables between the two functions. https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5658252 Should be really easy
[17:42] <steve______> the 16 MHz clock is working fine @ 3v3 :)
[17:43] <steve______> ibanezmatt13: you are not calling the functions in that script
[17:43] <steve______> you just have 2 functions defined
[17:44] <ibanezmatt13> when I open the shell, I run each of them by doing a() and printa()
[17:44] <ibanezmatt13> I do run them, but the second one doesn't work
[17:44] <mfa298> I suspect you also need to return the values from the a() function,
[17:44] <zyp> ibanezmatt13, you are not using functions like functions are supposed to be used
[17:44] <mfa298> by default when the function ends they'll probably be cleaned up (I'm assuming python does the same as most languages)
[17:46] <steve______> the variables defined in a() are not persistant
[17:46] <steve______> they only exist while inside the scope of a():
[17:46] <steve______> you need to do something like this
[17:46] <ibanezmatt13> here's the proper thing https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5657583 I need to pass best_image from func1 to func2 ready for SSDV
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[17:47] <zyp> ibanezmatt13, in function1 you should return best_file
[17:47] <ibanezmatt13> how do you mean? just by doing return best_file at the bottom of the function?
[17:48] <zyp> yes
[17:48] <steve______> or call function2() from within function1()
[17:48] <zyp> that's also possible
[17:48] <ibanezmatt13> will I still need any arguments?
[17:48] <steve______> def function2(best_file):
[17:48] <zyp> ibanezmatt13, what you need to think about is API
[17:49] <steve______> then on line 27
[17:49] <ibanezmatt13> API?
[17:49] <steve______> function2(best_file)
[17:49] <zyp> what is each function supposed to do, what do it need to know to do that, and what do you expect to get back when it's done?
[17:49] <zyp> API is the specification of that
[17:50] <ibanezmatt13> I see. https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5657583
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[17:50] <steve______> yes but you need to change function2
[17:50] <steve______> def function2(best_file):
[17:51] <ibanezmatt13> It's just understanding the Python way to do things which makes me make errors. Oh sorry, I forgot that bit
[17:51] <zyp> this is not python specific
[17:51] <zyp> this is programming basics
[17:51] <steve______> hehe - I don't even claim to know Python
[17:51] <zyp> it's the same in every functional language
[17:52] <mfa298> you probably also need to clean up some of what's in function1 - you probably don't want to wait 250 seconds at the end of it now!
[17:52] <ibanezmatt13> So that I understand this part of the basics, what exactly has happened now that we've modified it?
[17:52] <ibanezmatt13> what does function2(best_file) do, and why do we have to define it in this way
[17:52] <zyp> s/functional/procedural/
[17:53] <steve______> It calls function2 with the variable best_file passed to it
[17:53] <mfa298> your function2 just displays the value of best_file
[17:53] <zyp> ibanezmatt13, first of all I want you to give your functions sane names
[17:53] <zyp> names that reflect what the function is supposed to do
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[17:54] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I rushed the name for the purpose of getting it on Github quickly. My names are process_images() and send_images()
[17:54] <mfa298> one thing to realise is that most of what you're doing is calling functions. It's just that most of those functions are written for you: os.path.getsize() is a function that you pass a filename to.
[17:54] <ibanezmatt13> And thank you guys :)
[17:54] <ibanezmatt13> That makes sense :) They don't explain it like this anywhere else
[17:55] <m0tek> what is up?
[17:55] <craag> m0tek: Sometimes balloons!
[17:56] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[17:56] <steve______> http://www.tutorialspoint.com/python/python_functions.htm
[17:56] <m0tek> that's plausible
[17:56] <mfa298> I think there's a lot of stuff that you can/should remove from function1 either it should be done in the level of code above the function or it's going to be in another process
[17:57] <m0tek> also naming things well is very important
[17:57] <steve______> zip is correct you should understand why you want to use the function
[17:57] <m0tek> function1...
[17:57] <steve______> if you are just using a simple script then the main reason is program flow or code reuse
[17:58] <ibanezmatt13> So I guess I could define the variables at the start before the function
[17:58] <steve______> otherwise you can just put it all in one block
[17:58] <mfa298> for the variables you need to think of where they they're going to be used.
[17:59] <ibanezmatt13> well they'll be used primarily in the first function, but one of them will be used in the next one
[18:00] <mfa298> if you're ultimately going to do what was suggested earlier for taking pictures then the fswebcam commands are just there to provide test data (so shouldn't be in the function)
[18:00] <mfa298> you probably also dont want to sleep during the function
[18:01] <mfa298> and you need to think about when you move the files around (and also look to see if there's a better way than using os.system)
[18:01] <m0tek> there's a lady opposite me on the bus talking on the phone in a language that has clicks
[18:01] <ibanezmatt13> I thought using fswebcam was the best for taking an image, compressing it and saving it?
[18:01] <mfa298> in terms of the best_file variable that's where you need to learn a bit more about how functions work.
[18:01] <m0tek> it's completely fascinating
[18:02] <KT5TK> This 70cm to 10m transverter is going to fly next Saturday on a 300g Hwoyee for the Museums Ship Weekend event: http://kt5tk.wordpress.com . Launch about 12:30 local CDT time (= 18:30 UTC)
[18:02] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: fswebcam is the tool to use but if you sent that code up on a flight, you'll take five images straight after the other (so they'll be near identical) and then spend several minutes sending them down.
[18:03] <mfa298> what you will probably want to do is take 1 picture every x seconds (which means you won't be doing that in this script)
[18:03] <ibanezmatt13> I could have a delay between each one?
[18:03] <m0tek> kt5tk what's it for?
[18:03] <KT5TK> It's like a repeater
[18:03] <m0tek> ah cool
[18:04] <ibanezmatt13> the problem is, how will the other script know when to check for the best images?
[18:04] <KT5TK> You send up 70 cm and it will send down your signal on 10m
[18:04] <mfa298> The suggestion earlier is that you have something else (another script or a cronjob) that takes the images and stores them (potentially both high res and low res for ssdv)
[18:04] <nigelvh> Nice KT5TK
[18:04] <nigelvh> I assume you've tested that it works?
[18:04] <mfa298> the other script only takes the images it doesn't do any thing else.
[18:04] <m0tek> where is it launching? wonder what the propagation might be like
[18:04] <KT5TK> The advantage to a regular repeater is that you can use any modulation you want
[18:05] <KT5TK> and several people can use it simultaneously
[18:05] <ibanezmatt13> Oh I understand, let me have a little look, I think I know what you mean :)
[18:05] <mfa298> this script looks at the images it's got to choose from, selects it, send it and does something with the rest.
[18:05] <nigelvh> Does it go the other way too? 10m->70cm?
[18:05] <mfa298> s/selects it/selects one/
[18:06] <KT5TK> Yes, i tested it, but we'll do more testing tomorrow
[18:06] <KT5TK> No, it always goes 70 -> 10m
[18:07] <nigelvh> Hmm. Well if propagation is good I might have a chance to hear 10m.
[18:07] <nigelvh> You said it's flying this next weekend?
[18:07] <KT5TK> Yes, Saturday
[18:07] <nigelvh> Timing?
[18:07] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5318252 (for taking pictures repeatedly, could run it as a cronjon) https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5657583 (for getting best image and sending) I've updated both
[18:07] <KT5TK> Launch about 12:30 local CDT time (= 18:30 UTC)
[18:08] <nigelvh> That's going to be right in the middle of when we're launching three balloons. I think I might have my hands full.
[18:09] <KT5TK> It'll be on APRS.fi as N5BPS-11.
[18:10] <nigelvh> Mine should be K7NVH-11/12/13
[18:10] <KT5TK> NBPS was the former callsign of the Cavalla museum ship
[18:10] <KT5TK> We'll watch yours too.
[18:11] <KT5TK> What trackers are you using?
[18:11] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: that looks more like it.
[18:12] <nigelvh> One of them will be my tracker board, and two of them will be MT-8000FA boards
[18:12] <mfa298> you probably don't need the time.sleep in the best image script
[18:13] <nigelvh> We had them laying around, so we figured we might as well use them.
[18:13] <mfa298> in terms of the taking pictures, it's either a script like that (gives you better control over the timing if you want <1 minute between images) or a cronjob which means the system deals with the timing for you (you just tell it to run the command at a set of times)
[18:13] <nigelvh> Pain as far as batteries though.
[18:14] <KT5TK> At least they should be loud on the air..
[18:14] <nigelvh> We won't have them turned up nearly that high
[18:14] <nigelvh> Maybe 500mW if that.
[18:14] <KT5TK> Put a WIDE3-3 path on them and make America happy ;)
[18:14] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: for bestimage most of your variables at the start should be in the process_image function still as that's where they're used.
[18:15] <nigelvh> Why not go all out and do a WIDE6-6 path.
[18:16] <WILLdude> Having tremendous amounts of fun here trying to get my UBLOX working again.
[18:16] <KT5TK> :) . Do you connect those MAX-6 on them?
[18:17] <WILLdude> Yeah.
[18:17] <WILLdude> I had got it working before.
[18:17] <WILLdude> But needed to take everything out.
[18:17] <WILLdude> Now it's not working.
[18:17] <nigelvh> No, I cant get them to configure flight mode, so I've got some old GPS' left over that do high altitude without needing configs, the MAX6's will go on my board and a couple other custom bits.
[18:18] <WILLdude> Oh haa.
[18:18] <WILLdude> Oops.
[18:18] <WILLdude> This is getting very annoying.
[18:18] <WILLdude> Such fun!
[18:18] <KT5TK> yeah, that sounds like a problem. Proprietary code...
[18:19] <nigelvh> Yeah, the other option would be to attach flash chips to the MAX6's so they'd save their settings. I may do that in the future, but I don't have the time presently.
[18:19] <KT5TK> So you use Argentdata GPSes?
[18:19] <nigelvh> Yeah
[18:19] <nigelvh> We have in the past, but they're out of stock, so we can't get any.
[18:19] <Laurenceb__> just store the settings on the micro
[18:19] <Laurenceb__> its not that hard
[18:20] <KT5TK> They weight more than a complete PecanPico
[18:20] <nigelvh> Laurenceb__ this is a commercial tracker board that I can't set the software.
[18:20] <fsphil> yay, my Pi finally booted
[18:20] <nigelvh> My tracker sets it just fine.
[18:20] <Babs_> Highest photo before the card filled up yesterday http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8856753551/in/set-72157632733154985
[18:20] <Laurenceb__> ah
[18:20] <WILLdude> Argh
[18:20] <fsphil> now to try ssh'ing into it
[18:20] <steve______> back up the card :)
[18:21] <fsphil> wish I'd timed it. this took about an hour to boot
[18:21] <steve______> really
[18:21] <steve______> that sounds very wrong
[18:22] <WILLdude> Can someone help me plz?
[18:22] <steve______> mine takes seconds
[18:22] <fsphil> steve______: I'm running it at 10Mhz
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: thanks
[18:22] <WILLdude> The TX light on my arduino is on!
[18:22] <WILLdude> Nothing is TXing.
[18:22] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: it's probably not valid python code but this is the way I'd go about writing it http://pastie.org/private/h70piidosa0wqwnm3fusq
[18:22] <steve______> no wonder you had trouble trying to boot it :)
[18:23] <mfa298> I've just used what you've written and moved bits around and renamed a few bits.
[18:23] <steve______> why - is it just to save power
[18:23] <WILLdude> http://pastie.org/private/h70piidosa0wqwnm3fusq
[18:23] <WILLdude> Ooop
[18:23] <fsphil> steve______: was just curious
[18:23] <WILLdude> Bloody hell.
[18:23] <steve______> how did you set the clock speed to 10MHz
[18:24] <fsphil> option in /boot/config.txt
[18:24] <steve______> :)
[18:24] <fsphil> I didn't expect it to actually work
[18:24] <steve______> I can't think of a good reason to do that apart from curiosity
[18:25] <fsphil> and possibly power
[18:25] <fsphil> but I've not measured it, and it's possible it made no difference
[18:25] <mfa298> isn't that the standard reason for trying lots of things - because you can, or because RPi
[18:25] <steve______> yay - I have just had success as well
[18:25] <fsphil> yay, nearly at a login prompt
[18:26] <steve______> my ATMega328 chip is working fine on a breadboard
[18:26] <steve______> on 3v3 and a 16MHz clock
[18:26] <fsphil> woo, got a prompt
[18:26] <steve______> using y raspberry pi to programme it
[18:27] <Upu> Babs how often was it taking pictures (delay between them) ?
[18:27] <WILLdude> Hi Upu.
[18:28] <Upu> hi William
[18:28] <fsphil> now the trick.. waiting on vim to load so I can change the clock back
[18:28] <steve______> no more stupid avrdude: verification error: content mismatch
[18:28] <WILLdude> Upu:Just setting up the UBLOX again.
[18:28] <steve______> ha
[18:28] <steve______> you can edit the file via a card reader
[18:29] <steve______> I think
[18:29] <steve______> its it /boot right
[18:29] <mfa298> fsphil: it might be quicker/safer to flush and writes to the card and pull the plug - then edit the config.txt on another machine
[18:29] <fsphil> yea, but I've no idea where it is
[18:29] <Upu> oh ok hows it going Will ?
[18:29] <steve______> its the partition you will be able to see
[18:30] <fsphil> I believe in vim
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[18:31] <mfa298> looking at scroll back I think that could have been 2 1/2 hours to boot. you said about 10Mhz being painful around 1700
[18:31] <fsphil> done
[18:31] <mfa298> an incantation in sed might have been quicker to edit the file
[18:31] <fsphil> vim actually wasn't bad
[18:32] <fsphil> oddly useable at 10mhz
[18:32] <mfa298> hmm, I wonder if there's a horrible number of contect switches as the pi is running the start up scripts which might have made it even slower.
[18:33] <mfa298> of which there should be fewer once it's booted.
[18:33] <fsphil> likely
[18:33] <steve______> depends on what you are starting up
[18:33] <fsphil> there where a few SD card warnings too, there might have been timing issues with the storage
[18:33] <fsphil> which may have caused most of the boot time
[18:34] <mfa298> I can imagine the new boot methods that ubuntu and fedora are implimenting could be nasty with the context switching by trying to start as much in paralell as possible
[18:34] <fsphil> makes sense on modern machines I guess
[18:34] <mfa298> although I think the pi is still on the older rc.d stuff - which is a lot easier to understand and debug
[18:36] <fsphil> it's still shutting down
[18:36] <fsphil> why did I do this again? :)
[18:36] <steve______> pull the plug
[18:36] <steve______> :)
[18:38] <fsphil> there we go
[18:38] <fsphil> 700mhz
[18:38] <fsphil> aaaaah
[18:39] <steve______> Does anyone know of a good reason to use an external clock on the ATMega's - is it required for transmitting RTTY?
[18:39] <fsphil> I think the internal one drifts with temperature
[18:40] <steve______> thats a good enough reason
[18:40] <fsphil> well so does the external probably, just not as much
[18:40] <mattbrejza> the issue is with the uart and GPS rather than rtty
[18:41] <fsphil> yes good point, even more important those
[18:42] <fsphil> an 8mhz crystal isn't great for doing 9600 baud either :) you need one of those funky 7.3728 mhz crystals
[18:42] <fsphil> then it's pretty much spot on
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[18:44] <steve______> why is the UART comms more reliant on the clock than RTTY
[18:44] <KT5TK> RTTY is much slower
[18:46] <KT5TK> Therefore timing issues have not such a big influence
[18:46] <steve______> yeah
[18:46] <mattbrejza> its more that the clock recovery in the RTTY demodulator is much better at coping at clock mismatch then UART
[18:46] <mattbrejza> a 5% clock error is 5% whether at 9600 or 50
[18:49] <KT5TK> Well if you know that there is a constant error, you can compensate for that. But compensating at higher baudrates gets increasingly difficult
[18:49] <steve______> I was immersed in RTTY and microsecond delays
[18:49] <steve______> it blows my mind thinking about microseconds
[18:50] <mattbrejza> i found the ublox cared much more about slightly higher baud then slightly lower ones
[18:50] <mattbrejza> so if you test the uart over the expected frequency range of the drifting crystal and it still works then you can have confidence in it working
[18:50] <steve______> yes - I have all that still to come :)
[18:51] <steve______> and thats without thinking about the physical bits
[18:51] <mattbrejza> for testing internal is fine
[18:51] <mattbrejza> ive flown on internal before
[18:51] <steve______> did it work?
[18:52] <mattbrejza> yea
[18:52] <steve______> nice
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[18:52] <mattbrejza> but its not the best idea
[18:52] <mattbrejza> i put a crystal on it in the end as i had one lying around
[18:52] <mattbrejza> if you intended on using a rfm they are supposed to have a clock out
[18:52] <mattbrejza> could use that
[18:53] <steve______> I have the micro controller, clock and radio on a breadboard already working
[18:53] <steve______> its running 600 baud fine atm
[18:54] <mattbrejza> :)
[18:54] <steve______> I need to widen the carrier shift and then I could try a higher baud
[18:55] <mattbrejza> yea the shift should be equal to the baud
[18:55] <mattbrejza> or multiples of
[18:57] <steve______> I have a shift of 345 atm
[18:57] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: That code looks really understandable. How should I run the functions though?
[18:57] <steve______> with resistors laying around
[18:58] <mattbrejza> also that shift will change with temperature
[18:58] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: that's what line 22 and 25 does
[18:58] <mfa298> although as I don't know python that bit might not be exactly right.
[18:59] <mfa298> I also renamed the variables to try and make it clearer where the variables are used.
[18:59] <ibanezmatt13> I'll try it
[19:00] <mfa298> best_file, myfile, thefile will all have the same contents but they're technically different variables.
[19:01] <mfa298> looking at it again line25 should probably read: send_image(imgdir + myfile)
[19:02] <mfa298> but I'm sure you could have worked that out - and there are probably worse errors due to me not using python.
[19:03] <mfa298> I also realised line 12 has an error - the downsides of writing a program in a language you don't use and not testing it.
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[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:09] <x-f> evening
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> ah well, the joy of electronics
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> you plug it together as on the circuit diagram
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> and it doesn't work
[19:09] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: I tried the code. It keeps returning "none" even though there are images in the right directory
[19:10] <mfa298> did you see the comments I made above about some of the errors I just spotted in it
[19:10] <ibanezmatt13> sorry, I missed that. I'm working on two different inputs on my monitor, Pi and PC :)
[19:11] <x-f> Lunar_Lander, speaking of electronics, which LDO did you chose for your new tracker?
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> http://lv.farnell.com/microchip/mcp1826s-3302e-ab/ic-ldo-3-3v-1a-to-220-3/dp/1578423?Ntt=1578423
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:12] <x-f> thanks, will check it out
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome
[19:13] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: that doesn't work either. The error looks like some Python formatting issue, I'll try to fix it
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[19:17] <mfa298> I just copy and pasted and it seemed to work - I was just adding a couple of comments and cleaning it up a bit and I'll wack my .py file on a web server somewherewq
[19:17] Action: mfa298 notes that <esc>:wq isn't needed in irc!
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[19:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
[19:23] <Upu> evening Tom
[19:23] <Upu> how did the MAX7 launch go
[19:23] <Upu> ?
[19:24] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/_design/ept/_list/csv/payload_telemetry/flight_payload_time?include_docs=true&startkey=[%223bc1fbeff57c1ed0c9f2877399509da1%22,%227e7d946b36bb0d73328f3d95e31c3118%22]&endkey=[%223bc1fbeff57c1ed0c9f2877399509da1%22,%227e7d946b36bb0d73328f3d95e31c3118%22,[]]&fields=sentence_id,time,latitude,longitude,altitude,speed,heading,satellites,battery,temperature_internal,flags
[19:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> was jammed by ATV i think
[19:25] <Upu> oh
[19:25] <Upu> damn did you get it back ?
[19:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> yes
[19:25] <Upu> ok
[19:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> unfortunetly i cant see frames with no lock - habitat doesnt show them
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[19:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> i want to see flags field when no lock
[19:26] <eroomde> Babs_: 'hi De'
[19:26] <eroomde> lol
[19:27] <eroomde> De is (oddly) hamspeak for 'from'
[19:27] <SP9UOB-Tom> anyway, i really need this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Srh_TV_J144
[19:27] <wb8elk> Testing WSPR mode for an upcoming balloon flight for the next few days on 20m standard WSPR frequency
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> hello wb8elk
[19:28] <SP9UOB-Tom> wb8elk: now?
[19:28] <wb8elk> Yes...it is on now
[19:28] <SP9UOB-Tom> i try to listen
[19:29] <wb8elk> I usually hit Europe with it around 2300 UTC
[19:29] <wb8elk> and around 0600 UTC Australia hears me
[19:29] <wb8elk> running 200 milliwatts
[19:29] <wb8elk> It has been on for the past week and will be on this week as well
[19:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> wb8elk: dds? pulled crystal?
[19:30] <wb8elk> planning to fly it at the GPSL Superlaunch on June 15th
[19:30] <wb8elk> VCXO
[19:30] <wb8elk> hopefully will have a TCVCXO on it for the flight...it is on order
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[19:31] <SP9UOB-Tom> wb8elk: pre-programmed?
[19:34] <wb8elk> I use the VCXO as a reference to my Cypress synthesizer
[19:34] <SP9UOB-Tom> wb8elk: i see
[19:35] <wb8elk> If you leave WSPR running on 20m tonight, you may hear my signal....I usually am received all over Europe after 2300 UTC
[19:36] <wb8elk> I have to leave for dinner now with friends....let me know if you hear me on WSPR...although I will see you on the map if you do receive it
[19:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> wb8elk: im working on it - im after system update and wspr refuses to work: ImportError: No module named ImageTk
[19:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> looking for module :-)
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[19:45] <nigelvh> ping kt5tk
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[19:49] <fsphil> wb8elk: ooh neat, will have a listen
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[20:03] <SP9UOB-Tom> wb8elk: ok. wspr ready :-)
[20:08] <Babs_> eroomde - this whole irc channel is an intermittent route to public humiliation for me for not being in the know in terms of lingo huh?
[20:09] <Upu> I always wondered what de meant
[20:09] <Upu> shoud have asked I guess
[20:09] <Upu> So Babs how many images did you get and how oftem was it taking them ?
[20:10] <mfa298> I think it originated as one of those odd morse things, same as hihi
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[20:14] <fsphil> the hihi thing I find oddly annoying
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[20:18] <ibanezmatt13> A quick Linux question...
[20:18] <ibanezmatt13> How do you remove everything in a directory without ever removing the directory itself?
[20:18] <fsphil> it's prounced as Leenux
[20:18] <fsphil> oh, wrong question
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[20:18] <Upu> cd to the director
[20:18] <Upu> type rm -rf *
[20:18] <Upu> but be careful
[20:19] <Upu> and always do pwd before to check you're in the right directory
[20:19] <Upu> twice if you're logged in as root
[20:19] <ibanezmatt13> I am running some code from the home directory on my Pi, but in my code, I need a line which removes everything in the /home/pi/to_transmit directory
[20:20] <ibanezmatt13> but if the directory is empty, will it not remove the directory itself
[20:21] <ibanezmatt13> would it be rm -rf /home/pi/to_transmit * or something like that? Remember, I can't delete the directory
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[20:22] <fsphil> rm /my/directory/*
[20:22] <Babs_> UPu - 1500, 1 every 6 seconds
[20:22] <Babs_> too greedy. i should have done 1 every 10 and even with the extended flight i would have got them at all stages in the flight
[20:22] <ibanezmatt13> rm /home/pi/to_transmit/* ?
[20:22] <fsphil> yea
[20:23] <fsphil> or to be really safe
[20:23] <ibanezmatt13> will that remove the directory though if nothing's in it?
[20:23] <fsphil> rm /home/pi/to_transmit/*.jpeg
[20:23] <Upu> ok if there was a slight rotation on some you could stitch them together in photosynth
[20:23] <fsphil> nope
[20:23] <fsphil> the directory will remain
[20:23] <ibanezmatt13> I'll take the really safe option, thanks :)
[20:23] <x-f> Babs_, how did you control your 550D?
[20:23] <Upu> I don't mean photosynth I mean Microsoft ICE
[20:23] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: I tested the script and changes a couple of bit in it. There's a downloadable version at http://hab.yapd.net/chooseimage.py
[20:24] <ibanezmatt13> Wow, thanks. I'll take a look
[20:25] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: That's pretty similar to what I did to it! :D I managed to get the functions thing working in the end, and now I've got it moving the best pic to archive and then deleting the others. Thanks for the help mfa298, I couldn't have done it otherwise
[20:26] <mfa298> for removing the files an alternative way to do it might be keep a note of the files you decided not to use and move them/delete them. That way you'll keep any that got saved between choosing the image and moving the other files out of the way
[20:26] <ibanezmatt13> thanks :)
[20:26] <mfa298> I added the big couple of comments to help indicate what's the main bit of code and which are the function declarations.
[20:27] <mfa298> the additions to the print statements also help see what's running when
[20:27] <ibanezmatt13> that really helps
[20:27] <anerDev> good night guys !
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[20:32] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: When I ran the program, it deleted the directory
[20:33] <Babs_> upu - i should try that - only is there are 64gb of files...(i shot in raw)
[20:33] <fsphil> rm /directory/* won't
[20:33] <fsphil> so you must be doing something else
[20:33] <Babs_> x-f - magic lantern (like chdk, but for slrs) - it has an intervalometer on it
[20:33] <Upu> ouch well convert them all first
[20:33] <ibanezmatt13> It works if there's something already in the directory
[20:33] <Upu> you can batch convert
[20:34] <Upu> and they just throw a hand full at a time into it
[20:34] <ibanezmatt13> I did rm /home/pi/to_transmit/*.jpg
[20:34] <Babs_> i should try that -
[20:34] <fsphil> that will not remove an empty directory
[20:34] <Upu> Babs this is what nosebleedkt managed to make out of about 12 Canon A560 images : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/Nosebleed/u7kJZ.jpg
[20:35] <Babs_> summary on the slr is it is good, but not spectacularly better vs. the normal compact
[20:35] <ibanezmatt13> well that's rather confusing
[20:35] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: if you're doing it from your python script there's probably a much better way. Using os.system to run linux commands is a lazy way of doing it.
[20:35] <Upu> and this : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/Nosebleed/620510_502209346459781_645899209_o.jpg
[20:35] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: what is the other way?
[20:35] <mfa298> search google.
[20:36] <ibanezmatt13> ok will do. I just can't work out why the command I'm using deletes the whole directory when it shouldn't
[20:36] <x-f> Babs_, cool, thanks, didn't know about magic lantern
[20:36] <mfa298> I think both perl and php use a function called "unlink" to remove files so it might be something like that
[20:36] <ibanezmatt13> h m
[20:36] <ibanezmatt13> I'll keep looking :)
[20:37] <Babs_> although really there isn't enough of a data set of launches for me to judge whether conditions weren't optimal for photos particularly
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[20:38] <mfa298> first link on google for "python remove files" looks to have a few options (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1995373/deleting-all-files-in-a-directory-with-python)
[20:38] <Babs_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8856753551/ is good, but not order of magnitude better than the similar one taken with the compact canon http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/7279503558/in/set-72157629918448066
[20:39] <Upu> they do look amazing
[20:39] <Upu> sadly we don't have the clear skies of northern Greece
[20:39] <Upu> certainly seem better exposed than mine
[20:40] <Babs_> this is definitely the best one http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8858695548/
[20:40] <fsphil> lol
[20:40] <arko> hahaha!
[20:42] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: looks like you can use os.remove os.unlink to remove a file - and you already know how to get a list of files - some of that might also feed into remembering the files you considered last time so you only remove files you've considered rather than all files.
[20:43] <Upu> lol Babs
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[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> hey Upu
[20:58] <Upu> hi Lunar
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[21:00] <Upu> no one really knows the origins but google abiogenesis
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> xD yeah
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> actually at uni in my group they work on that
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> the hypothesis that life didn't started in the sea but like near geysirs
[21:07] <chrisstubbs> Why is it that things stop working as soon as you install them in the most awkward place possible: http://bit.ly/19hDfMK
[21:07] <chrisstubbs> Poor mans rack ftw
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[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
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[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> Fish! http://s.gullipics.com/image/x/3/t/5yvfqw-kqyms6-wgk5/IMG0105.jpeg
[21:14] <chrisstubbs> wasafish
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> plaice
[21:16] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: that's not a proper poor mans rack. Real people go for the LackRack
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[21:17] <chrisstubbs> woah thats cool
[21:17] <chrisstubbs> Might be a bit noisy for the living room coffee table though :P
[21:17] <mfa298> lol
[21:19] <mfa298> I'm not sure you've got enough batteries there.
[21:21] <griffonbot> @daveake: Write-up of my Pi In The Sky flight number 6 http://t.co/2lBcdTJhua #UKHAS #raspberry_pi [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/339129178131677184]
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[21:21] Action: mfa298 waits for the twitter flood
[21:22] <ibanezmatt13> Good news, I now have my program using SSDV and creating a file called packets.
[21:23] <griffonbot> @ukscone: RT @daveake: Write-up of my Pi In The Sky flight number 6 http://t.co/2lBcdTJhua #UKHAS #raspberry_pi [http://twitter.com/ukscone/status/339129842282926080]
[21:24] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, there are some jump leads that i can hook up to 2 110Ah deep cycle batteries if the power is out for more than a few days
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[21:24] <chrisstubbs> :P
[21:24] <mfa298> you should have some solar feeding into it.
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[21:24] <chrisstubbs> The UPS has been powered off all winter becuase my dad stacked a load of tyres in front of it :(
[21:25] <mfa298> looks like your inverter is 12/24 just wondering which you're running it at ?
[21:25] <chrisstubbs> Yeah I had a big BP solar panel given to me becuase the glass was shattered. The connectors had been so badly shorted they pretty much turned to dust though
[21:25] <chrisstubbs> 12v
[21:26] <chrisstubbs> http://hackaday.com/2012/06/28/roll-your-own-battery-backup-system/
[21:26] <chrisstubbs> thats me :)
[21:26] <chrisstubbs> the old version
[21:26] <griffonbot> @AnthonyStirk: RT @daveake: Write-up of my Pi In The Sky flight number 6 http://t.co/2lBcdTJhua #UKHAS #raspberry_pi [http://twitter.com/AnthonyStirk/status/339130421000413184]
[21:26] <mfa298> you might find it works better if you could run 24v, although keeping the batteries charged might be harder.
[21:27] <chrisstubbs> I think the inverter is 12v only
[21:27] <chrisstubbs> there is tick boxes on it for if its a 12v/ 24v model iirc
[21:27] <mfa298> ah, when I saw 12/24 on it I assumed it could do both
[21:28] <chrisstubbs> unfortunately not
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, ah you anticipate something like the winter here in the Muenster area 2005?
[21:28] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, long power outage?
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah it snowed like anything
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> and then some power poles collapsed
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> some people were out of power for three days
[21:29] <chrisstubbs> Ah thats not too bad
[21:29] <mfa298> the ultimate trick is get a 48v psu for the dell instead and run it as a 48v system. Although getting a 48v psu is probably a challenge
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> I think there was a rise in birth numbers there nine months later XD
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> I read that RWE (the power company) paid them some compensation or so
[21:29] <chrisstubbs> I looked at those carputer 12v psu's when i had a standard dell dimension desktop up there. But i didnt understand how such a tiny power supply could deliver like 200w
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> ah well the birth number rise is within statistical fluctuations
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnsterl%C3%A4nder_Schneechaos
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> check the photos
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> http://dx.com/p/navior-sagittarius-pattern-intelligent-two-way-bluetooth-anti-lost-alarm-ic-locator-white-204939
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[21:31] <SpeedEvil> What's this - is this just a bluetooth button plus gps?
[21:31] <chrisstubbs> wow they got pretty messed up
[21:33] <chrisstubbs> SpeedEvil, possibly not GPS as it wont work very well indoors
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> Dunno.
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> Modern chipsets can work surprisingly well.
[21:34] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, a tree grew into the bottom of the transformer at the end of our road once
[21:34] <chrisstubbs> produced a nice fire
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> Especially if it gets the phone to send the asist data
[21:34] <chrisstubbs> hmm maybe
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[21:36] <chrisstubbs> "anti-lost"
[21:36] <chrisstubbs> :P
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[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> SEBA-3 Chasing :-)
[21:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekh3lCLF9SE&feature=youtu.be
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[21:48] <chrisstubbs> Night!
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[21:57] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] Re: Transmit power of HAB's"
[21:57] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Sunday 26th May"
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[21:58] <Willdude123> Hello.
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> HELO
[21:59] <Willdude123> I started trying to get me ublox working again.
[21:59] <Willdude123> *my
[21:59] <Willdude123> I failed.
[21:59] <Willdude123> I tried printing GPS.available to serial but that just kept printing 63.
[22:00] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Transmit power of HAB's"
[22:01] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Sunday 26th May"
[22:02] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Sunday 26th May"
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[22:05] <griffonbot> @pimoroni: RT @daveake: Write-up of my Pi In The Sky flight number 6 http://t.co/2lBcdTJhua #UKHAS #raspberry_pi [http://twitter.com/pimoroni/status/339140309210509313]
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[22:23] <griffonbot> @Ben_Nuttall: RT @daveake: So the best image on my Pi flight yesterday was .... filename "snap314.jpg". Is there a higher power at work here? :p #raspbe& [http://twitter.com/Ben_Nuttall/status/339144911070834689]
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> Oh - fail
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> I went looking for the picture.
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[22:49] <griffonbot> @nerdsville: RT @daveake: Write-up of my Pi In The Sky flight number 6 http://t.co/2lBcdTJhua #UKHAS #raspberry_pi [http://twitter.com/nerdsville/status/339151352640962562]
[22:49] <fsphil> wb8elk: still tx'ing wspr?
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[22:54] <fsphil> I seem to be hitting a line of stations from new york down to atlanta
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[23:10] <fsphil> forgot how bad wspr is, keeps crashing
[23:10] <nigelvh> WSPR works fine for me.
[23:11] <fsphil> it's made for windows, on anything else it's quite dire
[23:11] <nigelvh> I've used it on Ubuntu too and it's been fine.
[23:11] <fsphil> I've not been able to run it for more than 6 minutes
[23:12] <nigelvh> Odd
[23:12] <nigelvh> I leave it running for weeks at a time.
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[23:14] <fsphil> trying again
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[23:24] <fsphil> nope, gone again
[23:24] <fsphil> giving up
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[23:29] <nigelvh> Hmm
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[23:36] <KT5TK> wb8elk: I've received you on wspr
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[00:00] --- Tue May 28 2013