highaltitude.log.20130524

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[02:23] <heathkid> just a comment... the Spherachutes are awesome!!!
[02:23] <heathkid> FAST shipping even for a custom order and *very* tiny when packed
[02:23] <heathkid> I *will* continue ordering from them
[02:23] <heathkid> again... and again...
[02:24] <heathkid> highly recommended! :)
[02:33] <Randomskk> they are sooo tiny packed, aren't they?
[02:33] <Randomskk> it's adorable
[02:33] <Randomskk> did yours come in the little bags?
[02:40] <arko> you're awake?
[02:41] <Randomskk> that or you're asleep
[02:41] <Randomskk> :P
[02:41] <arko> go home Randomskk, you're drunk
[02:41] <Randomskk> (132 hours remain until my masters project is due in)
[02:41] <arko> :P
[02:41] <Randomskk> (I no longer have a sleep schedule)
[02:41] <arko> wooO!!
[02:41] <arko> you are super human now
[02:41] <Randomskk> definitely not woo
[02:42] <Randomskk> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/kozdb97hoda4sj6/EtELqUusKx
[02:42] <arko> hahaha!
[02:42] <Randomskk> the only time I need
[02:42] <arko> lol
[02:42] <Randomskk> when I can't work I go to sleep, and sleep until I need to work (4-5 hours later)
[02:42] <arko> oh that works
[02:42] <arko> takes some adjusting
[02:43] <Randomskk> you're telling me ;)
[02:43] <arko> i tried it one summer for fun
[02:43] <arko> had trouble adjusting back more
[02:43] <Randomskk> I had two or three days with a regular polyphasic pattern
[02:43] <Randomskk> that was fun
[02:43] <Randomskk> slept 12-4 both sides of the clock
[02:43] <arko> nice
[02:43] <Randomskk> worked quite well - I got to see sunrise and sunset, got to be awake to chat with my housemates at breakfast and dinner
[02:43] <arko> :)
[02:43] <Randomskk> and got two 8 hour blocks where I could just work, fresh and uninterrupted
[02:44] <Randomskk> then it slipped out, unfortunately
[02:44] <arko> ahh
[02:44] <arko> why are you on irc then!?
[02:44] <arko> shouldn't you be doing master stuff
[02:44] <Randomskk> I am
[02:45] <Randomskk> xkcd/303
[02:45] <arko> givin you a hard time
[02:45] <arko> love that one
[02:45] <arko> works great for xilinx
[02:45] <arko> because it really does take a long time to compile
[02:46] <Randomskk> haha true
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[03:00] <eroomde> oh god
[03:00] <eroomde> led flashing takes 5 mins
[03:01] <arko> wuuuut
[03:01] <arko> ed?
[03:02] <arko> is it national dont sleep day?
[03:03] <eroomde> yes
[03:18] <KF7FER> arko: I've been helping this friend of mine in SoCal with a HAB project and he mentioned he's been talking to someone who works at JPL about HABs. I don't suppose you've been talking to Larry about his mice?
[03:19] <arko> hmm
[03:19] <arko> doesnt ring a bell
[03:19] <KF7FER> bummer I was hoping it was you
[03:19] <arko> tell him to come to the double tree in Monrovia, CA saturday at noon
[03:19] <arko> im launching my hab
[03:19] <arko> its 10 mins out from JPL
[03:19] <KF7FER> cool! good luck
[03:19] <arko> i'd be cool to meet him :P
[03:19] <arko> thanks!
[03:27] <KF7FER> so what are you flying for hardware?
[03:29] <arko> its a pico board i made
[03:30] <arko> im giving a talk about high altitude balloons at the Layerone conference
[03:30] <arko> then as a demo launching a pico
[03:30] <KF7FER> nice! what a great idea
[03:30] <arko> :)
[03:32] <KF7FER> man Trackuino is killing me... I'm trying to sleep the CPU and power down the GPS (while feeding it via the battery backup) but I can't seem to hot/warm/lukewarm start
[03:32] <arko> hmm
[03:32] <arko> question
[03:32] <arko> what are you using as your antenna?
[03:33] <KF7FER> chip
[03:33] <arko> for the aprs part
[03:33] <arko> radio
[03:33] <arko> 144
[03:33] <KF7FER> oh. for testing just a generic "mag mount" 5/8wave antenna
[03:33] <arko> damn
[03:33] <arko> im trying to figure out what antenna to use to fly
[03:33] <arko> upu suggested a slim-jim but i dont have the time or parts
[03:33] <KF7FER> oh. gimme a sec, I got a great idea
[03:34] <arko> i almost want to fly my diamond antenna
[03:34] <KF7FER> how about a length of RG58? http://www.hamuniverse.com/vertbazooka.html
[03:35] <arko> hmm
[03:35] <KF7FER> a fellow ham made one of out a length of RG58 I sent him (had an SMA female on one end) and he's on-line
[03:35] <arko> not sure i have any rg58
[03:35] <KF7FER> well RG-8 is spec'd, it's just rg58 is lighter
[03:35] <arko> what about just a basic wire antenna?
[03:35] <KF7FER> 1/4 wave ground plane?
[03:35] <KF7FER> made from a Pl-239 or even SMA?
[03:36] <arko> i was just thinking a piece of wire
[03:36] <KF7FER> heh. you wanna know a secret? I once flew with what was basically a coat hanger on the end of some rg58. Got picked up nearly as much as the 1/4 wave ground plane
[03:37] <KF7FER> but the bazooka antenna is just a piece of wire
[03:38] <KF7FER> I was trying to make a real antenna but I messed up
[03:39] <KF7FER> LOS seems to cure a multitude of sins - or at least it really helps
[03:40] <arko> KF7FER: hmmm
[03:40] <arko> not sure what to do here
[03:40] <arko> i dont have any RG-8 around either
[03:40] <KF7FER> got anything with a shield?
[03:41] <KF7FER> I suspect it would work
[03:41] <arko> any other design other than a bazooka?
[03:52] <KF7FER> well did you see that Upu seems to fly with a 1/4 wave made from wire? like ethernet strands? Not sure how that translates to higer powered use
[03:52] <arko> im at 300mW
[03:52] <arko> so 2m/4
[03:53] <arko> 0.5m antenna sounds like a plan to me
[03:53] <KF7FER> right, which is 10x higher than the UK guys to with rtty
[03:53] <arko> i just dont know how well it will work
[03:53] <KF7FER> to=do
[03:53] <arko> what if its not matched right
[03:53] <arko> i cut short or long
[03:53] <KF7FER> you'll go to hell?
[03:53] <arko> yes
[03:53] <KF7FER> really I'm sure I'm wrong in saying this but at 300mW I'm not sure how much it matters
[03:53] <arko> on fire while crying
[03:54] <arko> lol
[03:54] <KF7FER> maybe do a few loops of the wire or use a ferrite core?
[03:54] <arko> you;re probably right
[03:54] <KF7FER> in testing I've transmitted way too often w/o an antenna to no ill effect
[03:54] <KF7FER> I don't recommend it, but it's happened and I've lived to tell the tale
[03:54] <KF7FER> esp. w/ Trackuino and time slotting disabled
[03:54] <Elijah_____> most transmitters are tough enough to withstand a little of that
[03:55] Nick change: Elijah_____ -> Elijah_
[03:55] <Elijah_> and whoa, not sure how I got so many _'s
[03:55] <KF7FER> just lucky?
[03:55] <Elijah_> guess so :-)
[03:56] <KF7FER> so power doesn't matter?
[03:56] <KF7FER> of course I don't key a $500 radio without an antenna
[03:56] <arko> so i'll just cut a 51.9cm wire
[03:56] <KF7FER> but sometimes when you reflash firmware the board transmits before you can disconnect power ;-)
[03:56] <Elijah_> I'd say it does to some extent, but I've transmitted 100 watts into an open with a Kenwood wit no ill effects
[03:57] <arko> and have ground radials
[03:57] <arko> i guess those have to be quarter wave too
[03:57] <KF7FER> arko: I'd think so
[03:57] <Elijah_> In a pinch if you're just testing, I've taken two 100 ohm resistors and stick that across the output - close enough
[03:58] <Elijah_> at low duty cycle like packet, they'll take a couple watts
[03:58] <KF7FER> I'll keep that in mind, thanks
[03:59] <KF7FER> but arko - I'm sure there must be much better people on here than me to ask about antennas... I'd hope someone else would chime in with better answers
[03:59] <arko> yeah
[04:00] <arko> i dont know jack about antennas
[04:00] <arko> i've been googling but a lot of these require a lot more than just basic wire
[04:00] <Elijah_> On the last flight I participated in, I flew a j-pole made out of twin lead
[04:00] <KF7FER> what's your board connection look like? SMA with no connector?
[04:00] <KF7FER> so you solder directly to the PCB?
[04:01] <arko> yup
[04:01] <Elijah_> If you have access to a network analyzer or antenna tuner, just cut everything a little long and then start trimming
[04:01] <arko> sma no connector
[04:01] <arko> i have an sma
[04:01] <arko> but i dont want to solder it on if im not going to use it
[04:01] <KF7FER> ok. but wouldn't you solder your wire antenna to it?
[04:01] <Elijah_> I would put it on, antennas get beat up and you'll want to be able to replace 'em easily
[04:02] <arko> thats what i want to do actually
[04:02] <arko> just solder onto that rf_out pad on the sma
[04:02] <arko> run a 51.9cm wire out from it
[04:02] <arko> for 144.390Mhz
[04:02] <arko> and ground radials
[04:02] <KF7FER> Elijah_: it's pretty easy to desolder a broken antenna and save the weight
[04:03] <KF7FER> I've used an actual SMA in the past but now I'd prefer to solder directly to the PCB
[04:03] <Elijah_> I suppose, but an SMA doesn't weigh that much
[04:03] <Elijah_> aah
[04:08] <KF7FER> not really. but when you're doing the pico thing every gram counts
[04:09] <Elijah_> yea
[04:10] <Elijah_> what are you using for an RF module, arko?
[04:10] <arko> hx1
[04:10] <Elijah_> aah ok, cool...
[04:17] <KF7FER> plenty of power really
[04:17] <Elijah_> Yeah, I just wish they were frequency agile
[04:18] <Elijah_> I guess you can order them in other frequencies tho?
[04:18] <KF7FER> yup but still not agile
[04:18] <Elijah_> yeah
[04:18] <KF7FER> I'm actually looking at the Bi1MH. Is the same transmitter but includes a receiver and is 500mW
[04:18] <Elijah_> Is that another radiometrix module?
[04:18] <KF7FER> yes
[04:19] <KF7FER> I think I'm going to end up with something like the MX146 or building my own transmitter like others here have done
[04:19] <KF7FER> I'm actually trying to sell some lightweight low-power APRS boards based on the HX1
[04:20] <KF7FER> if you can make it to http://www.seapac.org I'll be there with a few in-hand
[04:20] <Elijah_> who built their own transmitter? I'd be interested to see that
[04:20] <KF7FER> KT5...err.. lost in my memory. The pecan guy
[04:20] <Randomskk> depends what you mean by built your own
[04:20] <Randomskk> for VHF you're probably using an IC to do most of the work
[04:20] <Elijah_> Oh ok... Jack crabtree is the guy I work with here, he's speaking at that
[04:20] <KF7FER> sorry that was sloppy
[04:21] <Randomskk> making your own PLL and everything else is a huge faff
[04:21] <Randomskk> that said the ntx2 doesn't, it's all discrete
[04:21] <KF7FER> you're right, it's using an existing chip
[04:21] <Randomskk> and it's magical
[04:21] <Randomskk> I've made one using the adf7012, which was fun: http://randomskk.net/u/wombat.png
[04:21] <KF7FER> KT5TK
[04:21] <KF7FER> that's it! thanks!
[04:21] <Randomskk> which I think is the same chip he used
[04:21] <KF7FER> exactly what I was talking about. +1 Randomskk
[04:21] <Elijah_> oh ok, cool
[04:22] <Randomskk> the ntx2 doesn't actually use any chips though, it's made of pure rf magic
[04:22] <Elijah_> Yeah, that's tricky to do right though I think
[04:22] <Randomskk> very tricky
[04:25] <Elijah_> I like the idea of using a DDS
[04:25] <Randomskk> good for HF but at VHF it's a bit tricky
[04:25] <Randomskk> DDS+upconverter could work
[04:25] <Randomskk> and UHF for that matter
[04:25] <Randomskk> depends what data modes you're thinking of using though
[04:25] <Elijah_> Some of the DDSs work up to above VHF, one of the guys here in ANSR did it awhile back
[04:25] <Randomskk> for FSK and AFSK there's not a huge amount of point over just normal FM modulation
[04:26] <Randomskk> only really worthwhile for IQ modulation imo
[04:26] <Randomskk> if you wanna try 64QAM from a balloon be my guest :P
[04:26] <Elijah_> It's overkill, but a fairly simple and inexpensive transmitter is the nice part
[04:26] <Randomskk> the ntx2 is a fairly simple and relatively inexpensive transmitter though
[04:26] <Elijah_> he was just using it for APRS, so AFSK
[04:26] <Randomskk> fe
[04:26] <KF7FER> Elijah_: So you know Jack? He's the speaker for Saturday night and the reason I decided to bring my boards to SeaPac
[04:27] <Elijah_> Yes, he's the one that got me interested in balloons
[04:27] <Elijah_> he works at embry riddle where I went to school
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[04:27] <KF7FER> cool! I figured if the speaker of the show was a HAB guy, what better place to show my boards at?
[04:27] <KF7FER> I hope to get a chance to talk to him
[04:28] <Elijah_> I'm sure you will, he's a great guy
[04:28] <Elijah_> what do the boards do?
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[04:28] <Elijah_> and price, maybe we'd like to buy one
[04:28] <KF7FER> APRS tracker w/ HX1 that uses a boost converter
[04:29] <KF7FER> so runs off 1xAA or 2xAA
[04:29] <Elijah_> oh ok... integrated GPS or..?
[04:29] <KF7FER> MAX-6
[04:29] <KF7FER> all in one
[04:29] <KF7FER> just add power and 2m antenna
[04:29] <Elijah_> nice
[04:29] <KF7FER> basically a MicroTrak that's actually micro
[04:29] <KF7FER> think about 1oz for tracker and battery
[04:30] <Elijah_> wow, that's light
[04:30] <Elijah_> open source software?
[04:30] <KF7FER> of course. Based on the Trackuino project. Eagle design files are included, so it's open source hardware as well
[04:30] <Elijah_> sweet!
[04:30] <KF7FER> heck drop me an email at bradb667@gmail.com and I'll send you the Eagle files
[04:31] <KF7FER> plus the code, it's been modifed to support the MAX-6
[04:31] <Elijah_> Ok I will... depending on the price maybe ANSR would buy one
[04:32] <KF7FER> it's amazing but my oldest daughter is doing her post-graduate work at ASU and I'd hope to come visit her and perhaps...well, since I'm there... check out ANSR
[04:32] <KF7FER> she starts this fall
[04:32] <Elijah_> really, yeah if you can work the timing right you'd be welcome to join a flight
[04:33] <KF7FER> just got her BA. That'd be cool!
[04:33] <Elijah_> Nice, where from/what in?
[04:34] <KF7FER> she graduated from WSU/Vancouver... she's a social worker type. I think it's in HD. <sigh> Dad wishes she was more of a hardcore geek but she's still a geek
[04:34] <KF7FER> HD=Human Development for those of us - like me - who didn't know you could get a BA in HD
[04:34] <Elijah_> haha
[04:35] <Elijah_> yeah, true
[04:35] <KF7FER> you can get a BA is CS. Imagine that!
[04:35] <KF7FER> is=in
[04:35] <Elijah_> Really, I'd think that'd be a BS
[04:35] <KF7FER> I was shocked to see somebody get a BA in computer science. There was one guy.
[04:35] <KF7FER> everybody else got a BS
[04:36] <Elijah_> I did BSCE at embry riddle... thought about continuing on but I was ready to be done with school
[04:36] <Elijah_> weird
[04:36] <Randomskk> over here BA in compsci is pretty common
[04:36] <Randomskk> I have a BA in engineering
[04:36] <Randomskk> that might just be here
[04:36] <Elijah_> Is that the UK?
[04:36] <Randomskk> UK yea
[04:36] <KF7FER> damn english making a mess of things as usual ;-)
[04:36] <Randomskk> but not sure how many UK unis do a similar thing. here (cambridge) essentially all the first undergrad degrees are BAa
[04:36] <Randomskk> BAs*
[04:37] <Elijah_> Yeah, those liberals!
[04:37] <Randomskk> my masters will be (hopefully!) an MEng
[04:37] <Elijah_> :-)
[04:37] <Elijah_> is that an MS then?
[04:37] <Randomskk> but (pending funding and four years of hard work) my postgrad would be a PhD, not an EngD
[04:37] <Randomskk> it's a masters of engineering
[04:37] <Randomskk> MSci is what we call science masters
[04:37] <Elijah_> aah
[04:37] <Randomskk> MMath too
[04:38] <Randomskk> you can probably guess that one ;)
[04:38] <Elijah_> haha
[04:38] <Elijah_> I think math is usually considered arts here
[04:38] <Randomskk> huh weird
[04:38] <Randomskk> I also get an MA for funsies in a couple years
[04:38] <Randomskk> just on account of my BA being so "hard"
[04:38] <Elijah_> interesting
[04:39] <Randomskk> cambridge and oxford thing
[04:39] <Randomskk> it's kinda silly
[04:41] <Elijah_> Yeah, I guess the 'high profile' schools have to do something to distinguish themselves
[04:41] <Elijah_> not to sound like I'm throwing stones or something, just something I've noticed :-)
[04:42] <Randomskk> at this point I think it's just because eight hundred years ago, everyone did the same course, got their BA (equivalent) after three years at the university, then went off and studied/apprenticed/whatever for another three years and got their "masters"
[04:42] <Randomskk> back when you actually made a "masterpiece" >_>
[04:43] <Randomskk> then they just kinda kept on giving masters three years after your BA
[04:43] <Elijah_> interesting
[04:43] <Randomskk> the problem with hundreds of years of tradition is that most of it is stupid
[04:43] <Randomskk> "how many cambridge professors does it take to change a lightbulb?"
[04:43] <Randomskk> "change?"
[04:44] <Randomskk> not that I'm bitter or anything :P
[04:44] <Elijah_> haha
[04:44] <Elijah_> Yeah, that's what I kind of dislike about academia, there's a lot of BS
[04:44] <Elijah_> not to be confused with a... BS lol
[04:44] <Randomskk> plenty of that in industry too though
[04:44] <Elijah_> true
[04:45] <Randomskk> just smells different
[04:45] <Elijah_> but at least you don't ahve to learn about crap you don't care about and will never use
[04:45] <Elijah_> (underwater basketweaving)
[04:45] <Randomskk> haha
[04:45] <Randomskk> to be fair to my course, it's been mostly good stuff
[04:45] <Randomskk> or at least, I plan to be an engineer, so everything in my engineering course is good
[04:45] <Randomskk> and we don't have a major/minor system
[04:45] <Randomskk> so I just do engineering
[04:45] <Elijah_> that's good
[04:46] <Randomskk> (but really, I think I'd quite like to have taken some classes in other things for the first year or two!)
[04:46] <Randomskk> (my engineering course spends two years as a general engineering before anyone specialises, so I did civil/mech/aero/thermo/material/info/electrical engineering for two years, at least)
[04:46] <Randomskk> but I can't write an essay to save my life :P
[04:47] <Elijah_> lol
[04:47] <Elijah_> Well, it would actually be kind of nice to know more about the other disciplines
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[04:48] <Randomskk> it's nice to know that in theory I could like, analyse a bridge or an engine or a power plant or some steel or something
[04:48] <Randomskk> but in practice what I've learnt is that I don't know enough to do any of those things safely and should recruit someone else for the purpose
[04:48] <Randomskk> which is probably better than not knowing anything about it at all and thus believing a few minutes with wikipedia would educate me enough :P
[04:49] <Elijah_> hahaha
[04:50] <Elijah_> depends on the criticality I suppose
[04:50] <Randomskk> indeed
[04:50] <Randomskk> I'm probably okay working out the stresses in four bars of carbon fibre for a quadcopter frame
[04:50] <Elijah_> A lot of stuff you can sufficiently overbuild to not really need any 'engineering' to get it to work
[04:50] <Randomskk> but less hot on working out temperature distribution in a nuclear reactor core or such :P
[04:50] <Elijah_> lol right
[04:51] <Randomskk> ah but the fun is in engineering it *just enough* that it works :P
[04:52] <Elijah_> hehe I don't know, I just like to make cool stuff
[04:52] <Randomskk> fair enough :P
[04:57] <Elijah_> working on a little APRS board here actually too, going to try one of those quadrifiler helix GPS antennas
[04:57] <Elijah_> http://tech.ansr.ad7zj.net/wiki/index.php/File:IMAG0807.jpg
[04:58] <Randomskk> neat
[04:58] <Elijah_> ever tried one of those? We've been flying patch antennas (for GPS)
[04:58] <Randomskk> yea the quad gps antennas are good
[04:58] <Randomskk> sure, we mostly use them
[04:58] <Randomskk> the sarantel ones?
[04:58] <Elijah_> yeah
[04:58] <Elijah_> makes sense, I'm not sure why we haven't tried it sooner really
[04:58] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/7020889371/in/set-72157629680728261
[04:59] <Elijah_> says 'bad bad panda', lol
[04:59] <Randomskk> weird. refresh?
[04:59] <Randomskk> working here
[04:59] <Elijah_> I did, flikr must be down or something
[04:59] <Randomskk> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7127/7020889371_cd9483df26_b.jpg
[05:00] <Elijah_> just says 'we are aware of the problem and are fixing it"
[05:00] <Elijah_> o ok, there we go
[05:00] <Elijah_> that looks really nice
[05:00] <Elijah_> actually looks like the PCB layout you posted earlier
[05:00] <Randomskk> it is :P
[05:01] <Elijah_> you're using the quad antenna without the LNA?
[05:01] <Randomskk> there is an LNA
[05:01] <Randomskk> but in general we don't bother
[05:01] <Elijah_> aah ok
[05:01] <Randomskk> the small black chip right of the ublox
[05:01] <Elijah_> not necessary since it has a clear view of the sky I suppose
[05:01] <Randomskk> is a SAW+LNA+SAW
[05:01] <Elijah_> aah ok
[05:01] <Randomskk> but it's _tiny_ and _really annoying_ and I don't think it actually helps much
[05:01] <Randomskk> as you say, clear view of the sky
[05:01] <Randomskk> http://randomskk.net/u/supernemo.png is the footprint for that part
[05:01] <Elijah_> the antenna I have has a similar thing, but it's part of the antenna itself
[05:02] <Randomskk> and it has an inductor from the antenna input to ground
[05:02] <Randomskk> so when you test continuity with your dmm
[05:02] <Elijah_> this has 40 dB of gain IIRC, quite a bit really
[05:02] <Randomskk> it looks like the antenna is shorted to ground
[05:02] <Randomskk> then I get sad
[05:02] <Elijah_> lol
[05:02] <Randomskk> then you try reworking that chip, which is a nightmare, because the pads are all underneath and tiny
[05:03] <Elijah_> I did that making a quarter wave 'stub' match for a yagi antenna once, it's a DC short so when you ohm out the other end of the cable it's easy to get disheartened
[05:04] <Randomskk> yea
[05:04] <Randomskk> need a vector network analyser clearly :P
[05:04] <Randomskk> oh well
[05:04] <Elijah_> yeah
[05:04] <Elijah_> the magic of RF
[05:04] <Randomskk> indeed
[05:04] <Randomskk> brb
[05:05] <Elijah_> kf7fer, I sent you an email
[05:07] <KF7FER> working on a reply right now ;-)
[05:07] <Elijah_> K no hurry, just wanted to be sure you got it
[05:08] <KF7FER> I was impressed your wrote so quickly so I figured I'd return the favor
[05:08] <Elijah_> I think my email address has a tendancy to trigger spam filters since it's unusual
[05:09] <Elijah_> I have to or I forget to do it at all :-)
[05:09] <KF7FER> a man after my own heart. If I don't do it now I'll never remember
[05:13] <Elijah_> hehe
[05:13] <Elijah_> OK it's bedtime for me, nice talking
[05:13] <KF7FER> night
[05:21] <arko> ok
[05:21] <arko> went with a center fed dipole
[05:21] <arko> on the board
[05:22] <arko> 1 wire goes down as the rf_out
[05:22] <arko> then rf_gnd
[05:22] <arko> pad
[05:22] <arko> up
[05:22] <arko> two wires
[05:22] <KF7FER> so what sort of wire did you use?
[05:24] <arko> pretty thick gauge wire with kapton insulation
[05:24] <arko> https://twitter.com/arkorobotics/status/337801074297696259
[05:24] <KF7FER> I bet at 10k it works just as good as any other ;-)
[05:25] <arko> heh
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[07:08] <eroomde> morning
[07:08] <eroomde> again
[07:08] <arko> good morning
[07:08] <eroomde> i am headache free
[07:08] <eroomde> which is nice
[07:09] <arko> drugs!
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[07:11] <eroomde> sleep and water
[07:11] <Upu> natures finest
[07:13] <eroomde> i feel like being productive today
[07:13] <arko> heh
[07:14] <number10> morning
[07:16] <x-f> good morning
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[07:33] <eroomde> morning
[07:33] <eroomde> i feel like this is what happens inside gentleman's clubs
[07:33] <eroomde> until the bar opens at 10am
[07:33] <Randomskk> haha
[07:33] <Randomskk> lots of "good morning to you"
[07:33] <Randomskk> some toast or perhaps crumpets
[07:33] <Randomskk> the FT
[07:34] <eroomde> 'do you think he's a qwar?'
[07:34] <number10> you been up all night Randomskk ?
[07:34] <Randomskk> yea but I last slept 3pm-8pm so like
[07:34] <Randomskk> idk
[07:34] <eroomde> when is hand-in?
[07:34] <Randomskk> for a while I had a nice polyphasic thing going but even that wisp of a pattern has slipped away
[07:34] <Randomskk> now I just sleep when I can't work
[07:35] <number10> project progressing?
[07:35] <Randomskk> eroomde: weds 4pm, 127 hours
[07:35] <Randomskk> a fact never far from my mind:
[07:35] <Randomskk> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/fd9usjg3m3hm7fs/LOfw_qSpJj
[07:35] <Randomskk> it is progressing, just about
[07:35] <Randomskk> almost at the point where I can finally start the actual computational run on EC2
[07:35] <Randomskk> hopefully this evening
[07:35] <Randomskk> so I can start writing the (50 page) report saturday
[07:36] <number10> and you have that all in your head so it should be easy
[07:36] <Randomskk> here's hoping
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[07:36] <number10> I thik I would be a little stressed
[07:36] <number10> +n
[07:37] <Randomskk> far too late for stress
[07:37] <eroomde> you're just at the right point in the curve
[07:37] <eroomde> and then think 'well if i can do it in about 5 days, why did i not just do this at the beginning of michaelmas?'
[07:38] <Randomskk> yes indeed
[07:38] <Randomskk> and also "if I can do all this in five days, what could I have accomplished if I'd been working this hard since michalmas?"
[07:38] <eroomde> probably death
[07:38] <Randomskk> then I realise what I would probably have accomplished is my own death or being sectioned
[07:38] <Randomskk> indeed
[07:39] <eroomde> but equally i do suprise myself by how fast things can move if i just stop nose picking
[07:39] <Randomskk> it is amazing
[07:39] <Randomskk> I've basically done my whole project from scratch in about two weeks
[07:39] <Randomskk> well a year of prototypes and contemplation perhaps
[07:39] <Randomskk> my notebook is now almost full - of which 75% is from the time since exams finished
[07:39] <eroomde> i guess we dicount the year of letting ideas churn around
[07:40] <fsphil> there's a lot to be said about nose picking
[07:40] <eroomde> you'll have to backdate the pages to make it look like a consistent effort :)
[07:40] <Randomskk> sadly too late for that
[07:40] <Randomskk> it's all datestamped
[07:40] <Randomskk> that said it pretty much all just looks like https://www.dropbox.com/sc/ynyuuquag38zk4y/dDUS9iHHC2
[07:40] <Randomskk> so I don't know if they're going to pay all that much attention
[07:41] <arko> wow
[07:41] <arko> where did you get that notebook?
[07:41] <eroomde> sod this!
[07:42] <Randomskk> arko: https://www.dropbox.com/sc/rngvq1vulultb4v/eRjSGyI1hu
[07:42] <Randomskk> it's a paperblanks
[07:42] <eroomde> we have a shop in oxford that sells those things
[07:42] <eroomde> all you need to bring are the keys to your house
[07:42] <Randomskk> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/effp28yib0aeewj/1-dnDC-8sm
[07:42] <Randomskk> eroomde: haha
[07:43] <Randomskk> this isn't real leather bound
[07:43] <Randomskk> sadly
[07:43] <arko> WOAH!
[07:43] <eroomde> that diagram is wonderful
[07:43] <arko> there is a store that sells them down the street from me
[07:43] <arko> thanks!
[07:43] Action: arko loves notebooks
[07:43] <eroomde> like the kind of thing you get in insurance company management structure realignment brainstorm sessions
[07:43] <Randomskk> arko: it's really nice. the paper is so thick so writing on both sides is just not a problem at all
[07:44] <Randomskk> and it's lovely paper
[07:44] <Randomskk> but also it looks the business
[07:44] <eroomde> done by those £500/hr whiteboard artists that conference venues love to upsell you
[07:44] <arko> nice!
[07:44] <Randomskk> eroomde: haha I know
[07:44] <arko> yeah these are pricey
[07:44] <Randomskk> this notebook is alternately pages of scribbled rambly thinking-on-paper, tables of random numbers and diagrams like that
[07:45] <fsphil> aah, evolution
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[07:45] <Randomskk> yes, a scribbly mess
[07:45] <Randomskk> that's currently my sad times
[07:45] <Randomskk> I have the simulation and selection and other things working (at long last, omg)
[07:45] <Randomskk> "working"
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[07:46] <Randomskk> and I've got parent selection and stuff. and mutators. but crossover is proving entertaining
[07:46] <fsphil> sounds like fun
[07:46] <Randomskk> yea....
[07:46] <Randomskk> should have picked another project
[07:46] <fsphil> well, if it wasn't all crammed into such a short and panicy time
[07:47] <Randomskk> in theory I had all year
[07:47] <Randomskk> so this is pretty strictly my fault
[07:47] <fsphil> I'd be in the same boat
[07:47] <eroomde> i was in the same boat
[07:47] <Randomskk> from what I hear I've got a day or two until I'm in the boat ed was
[07:47] <Randomskk> :P
[07:48] <eroomde> i started writing my thesis on monday morning
[07:48] <Randomskk> and a proper keyboard so might even manage to avoid rsi
[07:48] <Randomskk> eep
[07:48] <Randomskk> did you ever actually fly your thing?
[07:48] <eroomde> but my prose quality increases with urgency
[07:48] <eroomde> nope
[07:48] <Randomskk> aww
[07:48] <Randomskk> was it ever close to flyable?
[07:48] <eroomde> i just did a bunch of stuff on the stability of kalman filters in a control loop
[07:49] <Randomskk> I see
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[07:49] <eroomde> + a cad design
[07:49] <Randomskk> mine is going to be lacking in rigorous mathematical analysis I fear
[07:49] <Randomskk> or indeed any amount of control theory or application
[07:49] <Randomskk> despite being in the control group
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[07:49] <eroomde> schmetails
[07:50] <Randomskk> indeed
[07:50] <Randomskk> also looks like I might have a different assessor
[07:50] <Randomskk> as the timetable now says my assessor is TBC
[07:51] <eroomde> who was it?
[07:51] <Randomskk> mc smith
[07:51] <Randomskk> with jorge goncalves as supervisor
[07:52] <eroomde> he was my assessor too
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[08:26] <HixWork> does anyone have or can anyone point me to an RFM22B footprint for Eagle please?
[08:26] <HixWork> Though I am seriously considering giving KiCAD a go for the new board
[08:27] <zyp> I can suggest just making one
[08:29] <number10> I think there is something on Upu s store http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=65
[08:29] <number10> ah looks like the eagle link is a 404
[08:30] <fsphil> he has them in github
[08:30] <Darkside> make a footprint
[08:30] <Darkside> its good practice
[08:31] <fsphil> https://github.com/Upuaut/Eagle-Libraries
[08:31] <fsphil> but yes, try making one
[08:31] <fsphil> (says the guy who never has)
[08:31] <fsphil> then you can tell me how to :)
[08:31] <HixWork> I'm at work, so it's a bit awkward. I'm giving serious thought to KiCAD though so I suppose I'll have to do it from scratch to learn the program
[08:32] <HixWork> I saw no RFM22B in that lbr hence the q
[08:32] <HixWork> its not that bad fsphil I've done a few - it just takes a while
[08:33] <HixWork> if only you could just dimension the damn things like normal CAD it'd be a hell of a lot easier
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[08:33] <HixWork> maybe doing it then importing as a dxf could be easier for a trained CAD monkey
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[08:57] <chrisstubbswork> HixWork: still aftr an rfm footrpint?
[08:57] <chrisstubbswork> i think there is is one in the sparkfun lib
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[09:05] <HixWork> sweet - cheers chrisstubbswork - currently kicking off kicad learning ph1
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[09:11] <chrisstubbswork> HixWork: good luck!
[09:15] <chrisstubbswork> Why no eagle, cant install it at work?
[09:20] <HixWork> Mitch has been extolling KiCAD's virtues for a number of months and tbh I find Eagle infuriating - I'm used to a variety of CAD softwares and Eagle is the most annoying I've come across
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[09:23] <fsphil> kicad is also already packaged for most linux distros. which is nice if you use that sort of thing
[09:23] <chrisstubbswork> Yeah after a couple of months of Eagle I went back to AutoCAD utterly confused
[09:23] <HixWork> I don't like AutoCAD but compared to Eagle it's lovely
[09:24] <Laurenceb_> kicad is just confusing
[09:24] <Laurenceb_> but i guess its learnable
[09:26] <HixWork> what do you find confusing laurenceb_?
[09:27] <Laurenceb_> all the weird file formats and ... stuff
[09:27] <Laurenceb_> the library system too
[09:28] <chrisstubbswork> The library system in Eagle makes next to no sense to me
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[09:28] Action: HixWork sighs and just wishes Catia did PCB stuff
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[09:36] <zyp> chrisstubbswork, I think it makes perfect sense, it's just a bit tedious
[09:37] <HixWork> I find it very tedious, changing grid settings and moving things around instead of just being able to dimenions their locations
[09:37] <HixWork> *dimension
[09:38] <zyp> dimension?
[09:38] <zyp> nothing stops you from saying «put a pad of size w,h at position x,y»
[09:40] <eroomde> or just right clicking and setting the origin
[09:40] <eroomde> which i do a lot
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[09:41] <HixWork> yeah, but for things like the MC55 hirose header there are 50 pins and it would be nice if you could just say copy this instance along x at 0.8mm for 24 new instances
[09:42] <eroomde> yes, step and repeat would be nice
[09:43] <HixWork> or just a standard pattern feature with x,y number and spacing
[09:43] <HixWork> it's all xml based so it should be relatively wasy to implement
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[10:31] <HixWork> will a vreg generate heat with no load being pulled from it?
[10:32] <Randomskk> a tiny bit
[10:32] <Randomskk> look for quiescent current
[10:32] <jonsowman> I_q
[10:32] <jonsowman> using latex too much
[10:32] <Randomskk> no such thing
[10:32] <jonsowman> good
[10:32] <HixWork> enough to warm the crystal on an RFM22B?
[10:32] <fsphil> you can quit any time you want
[10:33] <zyp> HixWork, quite likely not
[10:33] <HixWork> grr
[10:33] <zyp> it should be microamps
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[11:24] <chrisstubbswork> HixWork: I'm looking into chaning the crystal loading capacitance via software to try and stop the drift
[11:24] <HixWork> nice!
[11:24] <chrisstubbswork> also going to try and get an RFM board thermally cycled at work to see why they crap out
[11:25] <chrisstubbswork> +20 to -50 a few times, see if they consistently drop out / come back to life
[11:25] <HixWork> plan
[11:26] <chrisstubbswork> I threw together some code that just read the tep from the RFM's built in ADC then changed the frequency slightly to try and compensate last night
[11:26] <chrisstubbswork> the tuning wasnt fine enough, so going to try again with the crystal capacitance register tonight
[11:26] <HixWork> good work
[11:26] <chrisstubbswork> ugh this keyboard is terrible
[11:27] <chrisstubbswork> anyway lunchtime methinks :)
[11:27] <chrisstubbswork> bbl
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[12:08] <chrisstubbswork> stupid IE
[12:20] <fsphil> had to believe there was once a time when IE was the more stable browser
[12:21] <fsphil> hard*
[12:26] <chrisstubbswork> Running it on a P4 laptop dosent help either
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[12:54] <zyp> fsphil, that's just because the better options weren't conceived yet
[12:56] <mfa298> I'm not sure that's necessarily true. Firefox has it's roots in some early web browsers
[13:06] <zyp> true, mozilla spawned out of the netscape 4 source that was opensourced
[13:08] <zyp> then, IIRC, a new rendering engine (gecko) were developed as part of mozilla, and when mozilla got usable it was then brought back into what became netscape 6
[13:08] <zyp> they skipped 5 to keep up with IE which was at version 6 at the time
[13:09] <x-f> no FF is at v21 and that doesn't make any sense to me
[13:09] <x-f> now*
[13:09] <zyp> and then mozilla forked into firefox later to create a browser that was more lightweight than the entire netscape navigator suite
[13:10] <zyp> IIRC it was first called phoenix, then firebird, before becoming firefox
[13:10] <zyp> (blame BIOS and database vendors)
[13:10] <lz1dev> wasnt firebird some sort of database thingamajig
[13:10] <zyp> yep
[13:11] <Brace> still is a database iirc
[13:11] <Brace> I liked it when it was called phoenix
[13:11] <lz1dev> firefox seems a bit bloaty lately
[13:12] <zyp> so I'm inclined to argue that IE6 was the first IE that had a better alternative
[13:12] <lz1dev> im happy that we no longer have to deal with IE6
[13:13] <fsphil> +1
[13:14] <mfa298> I think most people who can escape IE6 are happy about escaping it.
[13:15] <mfa298> I think I used more netscape/mozilla than IE prior to v6 but that's due to having linux on the desktop more.
[13:15] <mfa298> at which point I tended to use the same on windows to keep the same environment.
[13:16] <mfa298> although I seem to recall there being unix versions of IE5
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[13:23] <Futurity> Hi All, I was wondering is there are any Elsworth launches planned this weekend?
[13:25] <mattbrejza> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/ukhas/YW7taGbWtn0
[13:25] <mattbrejza> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/ukhas/NidlrC4oydE
[13:25] <mattbrejza> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/ukhas/4SH8KyibwJg (might be in cam on sun)
[13:25] <mattbrejza> Futurity: ^
[13:27] <Babs> All - will post properly to the googlegroup later on when i have time but BABSHAB will not now launch on Saturday because of hooky wind shears and instead on Sunday at 0700 from Great Tew. Jonsowman, I think unless anything changes vastly windwise this will now be locked in so I appreciate the offer of Churchill but will not need to trouble you now. Babs
[13:27] <jonsowman> not a problem :)
[13:28] <jonsowman> and good luck!
[13:28] <daveake> Just make sure it doesn't float then :P
[13:28] <daveake> I'm probably still launching, midday or so depending on the prediction which keeps changing
[13:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Sounds lke I might need all 7 VFO's in SDR-Radio running on Sunday then!
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[13:42] <Babs> Thanks both - daveake - on the floating potential. I assume >5 m/s climb not much chance of floating, <4 m/s a bit of a chance of floating, between 4-5 m/s you take your chances?
[13:43] <number10> i would keep it > 5
[13:44] <Babs> I'm keen on hanging around a bit up there and cracking off as many photos as possible. I should have completed my cutdown so I wouldn't have to worry about it.
[13:44] <number10> between 4-5 it may float - you have a large balloon - it will be wslightly windy so difficult to measure lift
[13:45] <number10> thats ok - as long as you are confident the cutdown will work
[13:45] <daveake> Aim for 5 should be fine :)
[13:45] <daveake> 5+
[13:45] <Babs> number10 - on floating, are we on about genuinely sticking up there until uv breaks the balloon, or simply taking a lot lot longer to burst?
[13:45] <Babs> number10. no cutdown, so confidence on that aspect of BABSHAB ~ 0/10
[13:46] <daveake> Generally they float over night, falling as the sun goes down then rising as it comes up again. Generally they birst soon after that
[13:46] <costyn> Babs: not much difference between those is there? the UV will cause the balloon to burst eventually
[13:46] <mfa298> Geoff-G8DHE: 7 vfo's I thought the limit was 6 or has it changed recently?
[13:46] <costyn> Babs: :)
[13:46] <daveake> Dunno if it's the UV, or the balloon having stretched the day before is more inclined to rise in the morning and the extra altitude does it in
[13:46] <Babs> 5 m/s 33000m, 4.4m/s 33,500m
[13:48] <Babs> got a meeting, back in a couple of hours. an extra 19 mins of flight time at 4.4m/s but judging by comments on here before the hwoyee may spend a bit longer getting a bit larger in any case so its probably less of an issue. Thanks all
[13:48] <number10> if the flight starts to level out a little then it will travel further - my camera launch on ANU2 started to do that at ~ 42250m - on the same day daveake's travelled a lot further
[13:49] <number10> fortunately it was heading north and nowhere near the coast
[13:49] <daveake> yours did :p
[13:50] <daveake> Still, we got to rx mine when it had "landed", and the fish & chips weren't bad :[
[13:50] <daveake> :P
[13:50] <number10> :)
[13:50] <number10> or was that a burger in nottingham
[13:51] <number10> no that was another day
[13:51] Action: SpeedEvil ponders the phrase 'the good burgers of nottingham'
[13:51] <daveake> ah yeah that was when I got the record for 54 minutes before Steve beat me :)
[13:52] <number10> as yes, and I got the camera record that no-one has beat
[13:52] <number10> :)
[13:52] <daveake> yet
[13:52] <daveake> :)
[13:52] <mfa298> 2 hour meeting on a friday afternoon sounds like a nasty form of punishment
[13:52] <number10> until this weekend?
[13:52] <daveake> possibly
[13:53] <number10> has to be a proper stills camera though ;P
[13:53] <daveake> 5MP not "proper" enough??
[13:53] <number10> well I suppose so
[13:53] <daveake> gee thanks :)
[13:54] <number10> thats ok
[13:54] <Laurenceb> i doubt anyone will get about 45Km
[13:54] <Laurenceb> unless theres a new type of balloon...
[13:55] <number10> I think mick mondo wasnt far off that
[13:55] <Laurenceb> *above
[13:55] <number10> below
[13:55] <daveake> 2 years ago people here said "you'll never get above 40km"
[13:55] <Laurenceb> heh
[13:56] <daveake> mondo mick's was a bit special
[13:56] <Laurenceb> herp derp
[13:56] <daveake> Heck, my first Pi flight had a gopro and a total of 3 trackers, with a 1200 balloon, and that got to 40km
[13:57] <daveake> sorry 2 trackers
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[14:02] <number10> just looking at the records page - steves are xaben 24 and 25 - I cant believe he has done 25 launches since last year
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> he's really into huffing helium.
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[14:32] <daveake> He must have a BOC Frequient Flyer card
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[14:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> mfa298 Yes 6 I think its a case of being next to 7 on kbd
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[15:02] <mfa298> Geoff-G8DHE: shame, more vfo's would be useful at times - although might need a bigger screen
[15:03] <mfa298> I thought it was probably a typo.
[15:06] <mattbrejza> i should get round to playing with the rtl driver and java
[15:06] <mikewintermute> daveake: how heavy was the 40km payload?
[15:06] <mattbrejza> connect up my decoder and see if it can decode 10 payloads at once
[15:08] <daveake> <mikewintermute> not surte about 800g total probably
[15:09] <daveake> Really shouldn't have got that high
[15:09] <daveake> I think my Pi payload was around 450g, and Upu had a box with GoPro
[15:15] <mfa298> hmmm, I probably ought to power up the new pi and see if mattbrejza's java decoder works better with more ram (can java ever have enough ram ?)
[15:15] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Planned Launch - Saturday"
[15:19] <craag> Theoretically using a funcube to decode on the pi should use minimally more cpu than using a normal sound input.
[15:19] <mattbrejza> mfa298: it doesnt use that much RAM, i cant see it making a difference unless it was causing issues before
[15:20] <mattbrejza> yea the funcube should owrk if it appears as a soundcard
[15:20] <craag> It does, just need to use/filter the whole 200khz.
[15:21] <craag> Would give your auto-search algorithm a workout!
[15:21] <mattbrejza> its IQ out?
[15:21] <mattbrejza> so wouldnt work straight away
[15:22] <mfa298> mattbrejza: when I tried it before it wasn't that successful but I'm not sure if the issue was cpu/mem/power/usb or a combination. At least with a new Pi power and mem should be improved a bit.
[15:22] <mattbrejza> the other thing with the autosearch is it wouldnt do a long enough FFT to see two signals 300Hz apart
[15:22] <mattbrejza> so it would have to look for peaks then demod at each peak, then work as it currently does
[15:23] <mfa298> mattbrejza: FCD is IQ out on the sound card interface so currently would need something else in the middle (gnuradio)
[15:23] <craag> mm, could probably use the habitat telemetry data to get a good idea where to looke though.
[15:23] <mattbrejza> rtty decoder has been pushed into the background as far as my time is concerned atm
[15:24] <mattbrejza> i dont actualyl have a fc so i would look at the rtl dongles first
[15:24] <craag> mm
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[15:28] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Planned Launch - Saturday"
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[15:32] <daveake> lol Steve
[15:36] <mattbrejza> should we moderate steve for his own good? :P
[15:36] <daveake> :)
[15:36] <eroomde> no need to stop people saying stuff that is confidential to their own company
[15:36] <eroomde> their shout
[15:38] <daveake> He doesn't shout now that he found a smaller font
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[15:43] <Babs> number10 - what was your camera record?
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[15:45] <number10> babs: altitude 42525 http://www.ukhas.org.uk/general:uk_records
[15:46] <number10> 42545 or whatever
[15:47] <Babs> ahh, highest picture
[15:47] <number10> yes - I didnt know we were keeping records of such at the time
[15:48] <number10> but it gives daveake something to challenge - as he does like a bit of competition
[15:48] <Babs> Have you got the photo link?
[15:49] <number10> yes - hold on - they are not brilliant - and I think lower altitude ones are better - the day was cloudy too
[15:50] <number10> http://www.flickr.com/photos/65839734@N04/sets/72157629829822100/
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[15:51] <number10> flickr seems to be a bit of a problem since they upgraded the site
[15:54] <Babs> number10 - cool photos. I agree though, it is really slow. IT would be nice if they offered the old site to the extent you wanted it until they got the new one sorted out.
[15:55] <number10> will be good to see your photos with an SLR - just dont underfill if it heading towards the coast
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[15:55] <daveake> I wonder if it's slow because of the new format, or because they suddenly gave non-pro uses 1TB of storage :p
[15:56] <number10> i was thinking of not renewing the pro account - that happend auto today
[15:57] <number10> Babs: BTW the chap with the formula 1 T is daveake if you didnt already recognise him - he is famous now
[15:58] <daveake> lol
[15:58] <daveake> yes I won't renew mine
[15:58] <number10> not too sure what adverst you get
[15:58] <number10> adverts - on the freebe
[16:00] <HixWork> Indianapolis GP tee?
[16:01] <HixWork> ahh yes
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[16:07] <chrisstubbs> hows kicad going hixwork?
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[16:10] <Babs> number10 - agreed. actually it moves so slowly and has a lot of wales to cover so should probably ok with a 1-2 hour delayed burst
[16:10] <Babs> but still, don't want to lose it....
[16:10] <number10> indeed
[16:10] <eroomde> when are you launching Babs ?
[16:11] <Babs> Have a 64gb card in it with Magic lantern installed, shooting raw + jpeg and it'll rattle off 1600 photos on that basis
[16:11] <Babs> Probably Sunday morning at 0700 eroomde
[16:11] <Babs> Current prediction http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=896f0d450a87792e8b7e384e91f099a7c2339597
[16:12] Action: mfa298 wonders how may trackers will manage to be up for that
[16:12] <Babs> the external battery I've got driving it is good for 4000 + photos
[16:12] <eroomde> why from up there?
[16:12] <eroomde> well i guess central london is out
[16:12] <Babs> was tempted to pop in a 128gb card but that fact is i haven't tested it
[16:12] <Babs> I sit right under the flight path
[16:13] <Babs> even though I think I have some payback for the hong kong airlines flight waking me up at 0500 every morning, i still don't think its justified to send a balloon up from my house just to annoy them back
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[16:13] <Babs> you can apparently get in trouble for that kind of thing
[16:14] <Babs> so am driving up to my mates in oxford and launching from there
[16:14] <Babs> got refused to launch from RAF Benson which is next door to his house
[16:14] <eroomde> tis where i live
[16:14] <eroomde> not a bad flight path
[16:14] <Babs> they wanted £2m minimum public liability insurance
[16:14] <Babs> ffs
[16:14] <Babs> you live in RAF benson?
[16:15] <eroomde> nice pubs for sunday lunch near the landig site too
[16:15] <Babs> Maverick, Goose, Iceman, Eroomde
[16:15] <eroomde> no, oxford
[16:15] <eroomde> i was being vague
[16:15] <eroomde> also i think they just do helicopters from benson
[16:15] <eroomde> which doesn't attract people who give themselves names like that
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[16:16] <Babs> it is virtually the same path as last year http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/7338004654/in/set-72157629918448066
[16:16] <Babs> Yes, "Chopper" is not necessarily a good call sign
[16:17] <Babs> Are you in college/Iffley/Abingdon Road/Cowley?
[16:17] <eroomde> botley road
[16:17] <eroomde> osney island
[16:17] <Babs> They do all the London flypasts from there
[16:18] <Babs> My mate was in his garden,looked up and there was a guy in the gun turret of a lancaster who gave him the peace sign
[16:18] <daveake> I got a lot of calls from Benson when I had a notam for a week
[16:18] <daveake> The pilots obviously never spoke to each other
[16:18] <eroomde> no they don't
[16:19] <daveake> ooh lock. nice little gps. there's a good boy. Amazing how this little chip antennae get a lock inside my office where they can barely even see the window
[16:19] <Babs> my brother in law is in the RAF, has mates at RAF Benson and I still couldn't launch from there
[16:20] <Babs> I don't think anyone talks to anyone
[16:20] <Babs> although tbf, I did get a nice rejection letter
[16:20] <daveake> :)
[16:21] <daveake> I've only had one permission refused by DM, and apparently that was because of some little show on at Fairford
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[16:26] <number10> Babs: cuddykid is towards the landing area I think - if he comes online I am sure he would help track
[16:26] <Babs> I think daveake was happy, it was just the RAF boys that weren't
[16:26] <cuddykid> hello hello
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[16:26] <cuddykid> where's the predicted landing?
[16:26] <number10> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=896f0d450a87792e8b7e384e91f099a7c2339597
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[16:27] <cuddykid> I that would have been near me
[16:27] <cuddykid> but unfortunately I'm in notts
[16:27] <daveake> cuddykid Free SLR
[16:27] <daveake> ah
[16:27] <cuddykid> what about HABJOE or WillDuckworth
[16:27] <Babs> I will check when i see him on here, in the meantime any early risers would be appreciated. I have a couple of back up trackers on there, but it would be nice to see my NTX-2 setup working effectively if anyone has insomnia
[16:27] <cuddykid> either of them may be able to do it
[16:27] <daveake> I might be thataway collecting mine in the afternoon. That doesn't help does it? :p
[16:27] <number10> cuddykid: youl be soon saying I left my radio at home.... ecuses
[16:27] <number10> ex
[16:27] <daveake> LunarKid
[16:28] <cuddykid> this is for tomorrow right?
[16:28] <cuddykid> I'm back next weekend.. probably..
[16:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> I'll leave rge radio listening overnight ... it ight lock on!
[16:28] <Babs> I'm aiming to see it come down
[16:28] <eroomde> i am entertaining sadly
[16:28] <eroomde> as in, i have people over
[16:28] <Babs> (This may be a big aim, but if you don't aim high.....)
[16:28] <cuddykid> unusual to head due west
[16:28] <number10> 26th cuddykid
[16:28] <eroomde> rather than that i cause amusement
[16:28] <Babs> Thanks Geoff
[16:29] <daveake> There was someone "BadClown" on earlier. He entertains sadly too.
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[16:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> Is the Tx well insulated ?
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[16:30] <daveake> Leav Left
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[16:32] <arko> morning
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[16:34] <cuddykid> http://panther.acudworth.co.uk/hourly/
[16:34] <cuddykid> sunday would be superb for me.. shame I have to wait another few weeks to launch
[16:35] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FH6QPAD-BU&sns=em
[16:35] <arko> curiosity timelapse!
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[16:50] <arko> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=67df4a546c84f02d01847ee8c2ada63c6c0616d3
[16:51] <arko> here's my prediction for tomorrows launch
[16:51] <arko> thats a far drive :/
[16:51] <arko> might as well go to vegas
[16:51] <eroomde> sparkfun now stock the MPU-6000
[16:51] <eroomde> which is nice
[16:52] <eroomde> it's the everything-in-one inertial measurement unit
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[16:52] <eroomde> but with an SPI (good) rather than I2C (bad) interface
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[17:01] Nick change: [1]Geoff-G8DHE -> Geoff-G8DHE
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[17:22] <arko> eroomde: have you seen the MPU-9050?
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[17:22] <eroomde> no
[17:22] <eroomde> link me up
[17:23] <arko> err
[17:23] <arko> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11486
[17:23] <arko> MPU-9150
[17:23] <arko> its 9Dog
[17:23] <arko> dof*
[17:24] <eroomde> interesting
[17:24] <arko> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11486
[17:24] <eroomde> i hope you can get the raw values out
[17:24] <arko> yep
[17:24] <arko> raw
[17:24] <arko> euler
[17:24] <arko> and my fav
[17:24] <arko> quaternion
[17:24] <arko> :D
[17:25] <arko> oh and DCM
[17:25] <eroomde> what *is* DCM
[17:25] <arko> you might want to wait though
[17:25] <eroomde> i know ardupilot use it
[17:25] <arko> Direction cosine matrix
[17:26] <arko> MPU-9250 will have SPI
[17:26] <arko> where the 9150 has shitty i2c
[17:26] <arko> but the chip is great if you want to save board space
[17:26] <arko> http://www.invensense.com/mems/gyro/mpu9250.html
[17:26] <arko> you can email them for samples usually
[17:26] <arko> company is really good about it
[17:27] <eroomde> hmm
[17:27] <eroomde> DCM seems odd
[17:27] <arko> it is
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[17:27] <eroomde> maybe it's this paper
[17:27] <eroomde> so it's a reference frame
[17:27] <arko> real men work in quaternions
[17:28] <eroomde> but this paper seems to imply that they also use it to correct for drift
[17:28] <arko> yeah
[17:28] <arko> if you are reading about the ardupilots implentation of it
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[17:29] <arko> err
[17:29] <arko> are you?
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[17:29] <eroomde> but they seem to just be doing this with a PI controller
[17:29] <arko> YES
[17:29] <arko> it's weird
[17:30] <eroomde> god this is terrible
[17:30] <arko> they use a PI controller as a filter almost
[17:30] <arko> it is
[17:30] <arko> its stupid
[17:30] <arko> i remember looking at the code 2 years ago
[17:30] <arko> err
[17:30] <arko> 1 year ago
[17:30] <arko> it made 0 sense to me
[17:30] <arko> back when i was working on the isaac robotics dev board
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[17:31] <eroomde> so
[17:31] <eroomde> hmm
[17:31] <arko> i chose to do quaternions into a kalman to get a proper state estimate
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[17:31] <arko> then to pid's for control
[17:31] <eroomde> yeah, it's like they haven't heard of kalman filters
[17:31] <eroomde> which actually solve this problem optimally
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[17:31] <arko> it might be because its an 8bit processor
[17:32] <arko> thats busy doing all these things
[17:32] <arko> that was the reason i went with arm
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[17:32] <arko> so i could do kalmans with little sweat
[17:32] <eroomde> you can run them at like 1khz on an arm no sweat
[17:32] <arko> yeah, apm is stupid
[17:32] <eroomde> for small state vecotrs
[17:32] <arko> :)
[17:32] <eroomde> sorry, atmega*
[17:32] <eroomde> it's not that computational
[17:32] <eroomde> and anyway the DCM is still doing matrix math
[17:32] <arko> thank you for reaffirming me that this is stupid
[17:33] <arko> to me*
[17:33] <eroomde> it's basically what you would design if you had never done information theory
[17:33] <arko> i always complained about this, but no one really knew what was going on (at least in the forums)
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[17:35] <arko> http://www.amazon.com/Quaternions-Rotation-Sequences-Applications-Aerospace/dp/0691102988
[17:35] <arko> very highly recommend this book
[17:35] <eroomde> s'ok i understand them
[17:35] <arko> i have a nice hardback copy
[17:35] <arko> oh i'm sure
[17:36] <arko> it's just a great reference book
[17:36] <eroomde> spent a couple of days with pencil and paper and then python
[17:36] <arko> those moments when you go "how was that again?"
[17:36] <eroomde> yes, it's not intutive
[17:36] <eroomde> because it's a different kind of algebra
[17:36] <eroomde> so it's more 'here are thine rules'
[17:36] <arko> yeah 4d is bizzar
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[17:37] <arko> it was like a year ago now that i was coding this stuff for the isaac stuff and i've forgotten all the exact math
[17:37] <arko> i remember concepts
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[17:37] <eroomde> i think in use i'll just have an internal quaternion state and translate it to a different frame for usage
[17:38] <arko> shittttt, i just remember that i actually wrote my own quaternion library for C where i wrote optimized code for a certain datatype
[17:38] <arko> made doing the math much much faster
[17:38] <arko> that sounds like a great way to approach it
[17:38] <arko> let me know if you want my quat library
[17:38] <arko> had some really snappy arctan2 functions too
[17:39] <arko> super optimized
[17:39] <arko> the library alone took my rate from 300Hz to 800Hz
[17:39] <eroomde> nice
[17:40] <arko> that was when the processor was very very busy
[17:40] <eroomde> it's a bit in the future atm
[17:40] <arko> IAR's compiler is awesome
[17:40] <eroomde> the gps atm hasn't got attitude backed in
[17:41] <Laurenceb> arko: for arm cortex?
[17:41] <arko> yep
[17:41] <Laurenceb> interesting
[17:41] <arko> arm sam3x
[17:41] <Laurenceb> ah
[17:41] <arko> its a cortexm3
[17:42] <arko> eroomde: ahh
[17:42] <eroomde> that is next
[17:43] <eroomde> well, along with dual freq
[17:43] <arko> :)
[17:43] <eroomde> i am having electronics fun
[17:43] <arko> those boards are v cool
[17:43] <eroomde> building my own LNAs and IF amp/filter chains and AGC and so on
[17:43] <eroomde> proper analogue
[17:43] <eroomde> i haven't done much of that before
[17:43] Action: arko is extremely jealous
[17:43] <eroomde> i've always resorted to Op Amps which are like sanitised WASP analogue
[17:47] <arko> any chance a board will make it my way?
[17:47] <eroomde> it's all very hairy when you leave kansas though
[17:47] <eroomde> yes
[17:47] <arko> :D !!!
[17:47] <eroomde> i made one booboo
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[17:47] <arko> hah
[17:47] <arko> kaynar can fix that
[17:48] <eroomde> it did
[17:48] <eroomde> tcxo footprint wrong in once place
[17:48] <eroomde> well annoying
[17:50] <arko> summer break is 2 weeks away
[17:51] <eroomde> bipolar transistors are amazing
[17:51] <arko> i plan to get really into gps in the first month
[17:51] <arko> oh?
[17:51] <eroomde> yes
[17:51] <eroomde> i have ignored them for too long
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[17:51] <eroomde> they are really fast
[17:52] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9www6tzkm6i9e47/2013-05-24%2018.48.49.jpg
[17:52] <arko> is this for the dual freq?
[17:52] <eroomde> observe the precision bodge
[17:52] <eroomde> yes, the IF amp stages will all by bipolar
[17:52] <eroomde> but in general
[17:52] <arko> haha nice
[17:52] <arko> yeah
[17:52] <eroomde> i could make an op-amp now
[17:53] <arko> :)
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[17:53] <eroomde> all these bipolar circuits are really pleasing
[17:53] <eroomde> you can go FAST
[17:53] <eroomde> you don't have to drive gate capacitance like you do with FeTs
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[17:55] <arko> i dont really know much about using bipolars/fet's for rf
[17:55] <arko> yet...
[17:55] <eroomde> TAoE is a good starting point as always
[17:56] <arko> the ee's bible
[17:57] <eroomde> also bipolars are insensitive to ESD
[17:57] <arko> yeeah
[17:57] <eroomde> which i guess is cool
[17:57] <eroomde> if you need that kind of thing
[17:57] <arko> fet's are stupid easy to kill/degrade
[17:57] <arko> it's that super thin aluminum on the gate
[17:57] <arko> you can blow holes in it with static
[17:58] <eroomde> yes, a spark can jump across the gate to the drain/source silicon
[17:58] <eroomde> and kaput it
[17:58] <arko> yarp
[17:58] <arko> i had a great prof for transistors/fets
[17:58] <arko> he taught us about some awesome stuff that are practical and important
[17:58] <arko> wish i had more like him :/
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[18:12] <anerDev> hi guys !
[18:13] <anerDev> this is good yagi antenna for receive the signals ? http://www.ebay.it/itm/70-cm-UHF-Yagi-Richtantenne-Amateurfunk-PMR-BOS-Antenne-/250826224761?pt=DE_Handys_Kommunikation_Antennen&hash=item3a66687479&_uhb=1
[18:15] <mfa298> depends on what you're trying to acheive
[18:15] <chrisstubbs> anerDev, looks suitable
[18:15] <anerDev> I will buy tomorrow ! thank u =D
[18:15] Action: x-f has a deja vu.
[18:15] <chrisstubbs> but yeah a omnidirectional antenna may be more suitable
[18:15] <chrisstubbs> what ive said now makes no sense :P
[18:16] <anerDev> LOL
[18:16] <anerDev> now I'm using a ground plane antenna
[18:16] <mfa298> if you want something directional it'll work, if you want something that will get really weak signals that a vertical won't that may not be much better
[18:16] <chrisstubbs> by suitable i meant for the frequency, but it depends if you want to have it set up as a base station, or for RDF out in the field
[18:16] <mfa298> anerDev: where do you plan on using a yagi ?
[18:18] <anerDev> on my car
[18:19] <mfa298> when driving ?
[18:19] <anerDev> not for permanent station, for example at home
[18:19] <anerDev> yes, during the drive
[18:19] <anerDev> my friend drive and I put the yagi in the correct point
[18:19] <mfa298> it's not a particularly good choice for driving.
[18:19] <anerDev> why ?
[18:20] <eroomde> try it and find out
[18:20] <mfa298> you want it outside the car at which point trying to point it in the right direction will be difficult/ dangerous
[18:20] <mfa298> a 2/70 magmount antenna is likely to be best for driving.
[18:20] <anerDev> but is unsafe during the car movement ?
[18:20] <daveake> use a magmount on the roof
[18:21] <daveake> put a yagi in the boot in case you need it for df or the signal is weak when you stop
[18:21] <daveake> don't use it while driving that's just asking for trouble
[18:22] <mfa298> something like this would be better when you're in the car http://cpc.farnell.com/watson/wsm-270/wsm-270-mini-mag-antenna/dp/IT44456?in_merch=Products%20From%20This%20Range
[18:23] <anerDev> one moment
[18:24] <anerDev> now I'm using this: http://www.aurelwireless.com/wp-content/uploads/shortform/650200313G_sf.pdf
[18:24] <anerDev> this groundplane is better than the yagi and the magmount ?
[18:25] <anerDev> http://www.rotronic.it/media/catalog/product/cache/11/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/l/o/log-an-gp433.jpg
[18:25] <mfa298> there's not enough information on that page to tell how good it is (I seem to recall saying that before)
[18:26] <mfa298> a lot depends on how you're using it and what you're trying to do.
[18:26] <anerDev> for use in the car
[18:26] <anerDev> for the mount the best solution is the mag
[18:26] <mfa298> magmount antennas are *very* good for a car when driving as they're omnidirectional and they stay where they're put on the car roof
[18:26] <anerDev> but for receive ?
[18:27] <anerDev> ook
[18:27] <anerDev> I?m searching on ebay
[18:27] <mfa298> if you need something when you're on foot trying to find the payload then a yagi is useful as you can see which direction the signal is strongest.
[18:28] <anerDev> ahhh ok ok !
[18:28] <daveake> There was a convo about this at http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs_highlighted/highaltitude.log.20130107.html you may remember it :)
[18:28] <mfa298> A good yagi (very expensive and large) is good for really weak signals - but they're generally mounted on a building with a rotator
[18:28] <anerDev> alors
[18:29] <anerDev> when the payload is in the sky, and I'm in the car, I will use the magmount antenna
[18:29] <anerDev> when the payload is on the earth I will use yagi, because the signal is weak !
[18:29] <mfa298> when the payload is in the air and you're in the car then a 70cm magmount is best
[18:29] <anerDev> perfect
[18:29] <anerDev> but when the payload is down the signal can't propagate correctly
[18:30] <anerDev> and in this case I will use yagi
[18:30] <mfa298> with the yagi you were looking at it's more about the directionality than the signal strength
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[18:30] <anerDev> perfect !
[18:30] <anerDev> on ebay i found this: http://www.ebay.it/itm/2m-70cm-Micro-Mag-Small-but-powerful-Antenna-/300714094809?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones_Communication_Radio_Antennas&hash=item4603f4f0d9&_uhb=1#ht_1002wt_1413
[18:30] <mfa298> that yagi doesn't have much more gain than the magmount I linked to.
[18:30] <daveake> Usually, if you drive to the last known position or the predicted landing point, you'll get a strong enough signal via a magmount
[18:30] <daveake> If not, get out the yagi. But mostly you won't need to
[18:31] <daveake> Or just drive round till the signal is stronger.
[18:31] <anerDev> perfect ! =D Now i have understand
[18:31] <anerDev> http://www.ebay.it/itm/2m-70cm-Micro-Mag-Small-but-powerful-Antenna-/300714094809?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones_Communication_Radio_Antennas&hash=item4603f4f0d9&_uhb=1#ht_1002wt_1413
[18:31] <anerDev> this is good ?
[18:32] <daveake> It's fine
[18:32] <mfa298> that should work.
[18:33] <anerDev> I think that this is best, for the quality, http://www.ebay.it/itm/2m-70cm-144-430MHz-Micro-Mount-Ham-Radio-Mobile-Antenna-/370798985046?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones_Communication_Radio_Antennas&hash=item5655577f56&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_1081
[18:34] <mfa298> I'd probably go with the 2nd one as it actually gives some information about it.
[18:35] <daveake> Yep
[18:35] <mfa298> from a quick google rg58 looks to be a better cable than rg174
[18:36] <mfa298> (I never thought Id be saying rg58 is better than another rg- cable)
[18:36] <anerDev> the second link use RG58 cable
[18:36] <daveake> Not so good for getting through gaps around windows
[18:37] <anerDev> the rg58 cable ?
[18:37] <daveake> yes
[18:37] <anerDev> uhmm
[18:38] <anerDev> you advise me to buy this?
[18:38] <anerDev> http://www.ebay.it/itm/2m-70cm-Micro-Mag-Small-but-powerful-Antenna-/300714094809?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones_Communication_Radio_Antennas&hash=item4603f4f0d9&_uhb=1#ht_1002wt_1413
[18:38] <mfa298> I've not had a problem with rg58 in the car
[18:39] <anerDev> sorry guys, but now I go
[18:39] <anerDev> i have an emergency, we meert tomorrow
[18:39] <anerDev> thnak u !
[18:39] <anerDev> =D
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[18:39] <daveake> Mine are RG174. Not tried RG58 in the car. The 4x4 has huuge gaps with 2 seals so I'm sure RG58 would be fine
[18:40] <mfa298> I'm assuming mine is rg58 now. I'm pretty sure I did check when I got it.
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[18:48] <chrisstubbs> The xtalshift bit provides a
[18:48] <chrisstubbs> coarse shift in frequency but is not binary with xlc[6:0]
[18:48] <chrisstubbs> what does
[18:49] <chrisstubbs> "not binary" mean?
[18:49] <chrisstubbs> in this context
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[19:00] Action: mfa298 hopes the weekends balloons do better than todays airplanes!
[19:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> chrisstubbs are you hoping to do some temp. test on the RFM22 ?
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[19:02] <chrisstubbs> yes that is the plan!
[19:03] <chrisstubbs> trying to get my head around the datasheet. I have managed to read the ADC values from the rfm okay
[19:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK would be interested in results, I keep wondering about using huff-puff approach to stabilise them?
[19:03] <daveake> mfa298 It'll be an interesting weekend if one HAB catches fire while another gets a military escort!
[19:03] <chrisstubbs> now im playing with the crystal loading capacitor settings, but cant seem to tune it fine enough to be worthwhile
[19:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> what sort of range can you get then ?
[19:04] <chrisstubbs> It dosent seem to be very consistant (possibly becuase i keep changing things)
[19:05] <mfa298> hmmm, should it be +ve or -ve hab points if you can get a military escort when it's airborne
[19:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> right, the xtal probably won't be that linear at that freq either which is why an FLL might be worthwhile
[19:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> given that we can get an accurate timing signal from GPS o the ublox, then the clock dividers in the RFM22 itself it might be possible to do the FLL
[19:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> in software in the procesor.
[19:06] <chrisstubbs> FLL?
[19:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> Frequency Locked Loop rather than PLL see http://bit.ly/huff-puff its quiet an old technique now but not seen much. locks the VFO etc in small steps
[19:07] <chrisstubbs> Just did a test, adjusting the loading capacitance value by one (smallest change) shifted the frequency by about 600Hz
[19:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ouch that's a bit steep then
[19:08] <chrisstubbs> I had a little more success just adjusting the center frequency
[19:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> wonder if it might be easier to replace the xtal with an external source that could be netter controlled
[19:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> *better
[19:10] <chrisstubbs> there are 2 frequency offest registers, one is used for sending the rtty bits with a offset of ~500hz, so i may try to use the other to fine tune the frequency depending on temp
[19:10] <chrisstubbs> Or just wait for Upu to finish his version with a TCXO
[19:10] <chrisstubbs> :P
[19:10] <chrisstubbs> I was hoping there would be a crude solution in software
[19:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh is Upu doing a TXCO then ?
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[19:11] <chrisstubbs> He has been experimenting with it i think
[19:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah that might resolve the problem, must have missed that
[19:14] <daveake> the rfm22b is only intended to work down to -20, because of the xtal. Upu is trying some better specced xtals
[19:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah that would be good provided the rest of the chip is happy!
[19:15] <chrisstubbs> The thing is the RFM22B datasheet says: utilizing the on-chip temperature sensor and suitable control software, the temperature dependency of the crystal can be canceled
[19:15] <daveake> Yes, might be, might not be!
[19:16] <chrisstubbs> I understand it will probably still crap out when the crystal gets out of its minimum temp. spec.
[19:16] <daveake> I don't think it's just the drift
[19:16] <daveake> yes
[19:17] <chrisstubbs> I just wanted to experiment with some anti-drift code
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[19:26] <chrisstubbs> Ok this is more promising, got it to 150hz precision
[19:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> Hope yet then
[19:27] <daveake> That sounds like register I use to set the 2 rtty frequencies
[19:27] <daveake> Just shifts by n * 150Hz
[19:27] <chrisstubbs> yeah thats it dave
[19:27] <daveake> IIRC navrac was the first to use that
[19:27] <daveake> Works better for rtty than setting the frequency
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[19:33] SP9UOB (~verox@matrix.verox.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[19:33] <SP9UOB> evening all
[19:35] Lunar_Lander (~gd-compto@p54888D33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:36] <SP9UOB> Lunar_Lander: do You have 10m receiver
[19:36] <SP9UOB> ?
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> no, sorry
[19:40] <SP9UOB> im launching tommorow with HF payload
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> http://s2.b3ta.com/host/creative/5680/1369419594/spectrum.gif
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> epic lolz
[19:44] <SP9UOB> could someone accept flight document: 3bc1fbeff57c1ed0c9f2877399509da1 please?
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96E0RfyL2Gc <- new cutdown
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[19:47] <SQ9DIQ> SP9UOB are you here now
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[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> Good evening all :)
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[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
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[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> It looks like I'll be purchasing my GPS and radio transmitter later tonight! :D
[20:09] <SP9UOB> daveake: can You approve flight document: 3bc1fbeff57c1ed0c9f2877399509da1 please?
[20:10] <daveake> sorry I'm not one of those who can :)
[20:11] <ibanezmatt13> could you just confirm that this is the right GPS for me? http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51 I'm allowed to purchase tonight! :)
[20:11] <daveake> If that's the one I told you to buy, then yes it is
[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> I think it is :) And, I guess it doesn't matter whether I get the 434.650 or the 434.075 NTX2 does it?
[20:12] <daveake> Either
[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks :)
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[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, I took a photo of the new 64 g payload
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/f/e/v/5yv7rd-kqsx78-2fwx/IMG0087.jpeg
[20:18] <fsphil> Upu is beyond the wall atm
[20:18] <ibanezmatt13> Lunar_Lander: What is the red break out board on the right?
[20:19] <SpeedEvil> tell him to not walk towards the light fsphil
[20:20] <x-f> ibanezmatt13, it's a MicroSD card holder
[20:20] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right, and is that little IC programmable?
[20:20] <ibanezmatt13> stupid quesrion
[20:20] <fsphil> where's the radio Lunar_Lander?
[20:20] <ibanezmatt13> question*
[20:20] <x-f> with the white label?
[20:20] <ibanezmatt13> yeah
[20:21] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: I was thinking that myself :)
[20:21] <x-f> yes, it is the ATmega328-P
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:21] <ibanezmatt13> So would you right a C program for one of those and flash it onto it?
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> without P
[20:22] <fsphil> write*
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, we will fly that on a balloon by PTB, the german version of NPL
[20:22] <ibanezmatt13> of course, my apologies :)
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> and they will have a 70 cm radio
[20:22] <fsphil> NPL?
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> will have to check with the frequencies
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> national physics lab
[20:23] <x-f> Lunar_Lander, looks good :)
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[20:23] <fsphil> yes very neat
[20:23] <fsphil> you're getting better at this
[20:23] <fsphil> you should try a custom PCB next
[20:23] <x-f> no yellow wire spaghetti mess :)
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> ah wait
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/u/n/z/5yv7rd-kqsx6i-chy/IMG0090.jpeg
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:24] <x-f> heh :)
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> this time I colour coded GND#
[20:26] <fsphil> worlds hardest game of snakes and ladders
[20:26] <chrisstubbs> Probably going to give up with AFC code very soon. it seems to just switch to random frequencies around the 434mhz ballpark
[20:27] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: that's going to make tracking interesting.
[20:27] <chrisstubbs> yeah
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, yea :P
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> btw our city put up nice ads for promoting bicycles
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/c/x/d/5yv7rd-kqs0ni-rga2/IMG0091.jpeg
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> it says "You don't save taxes by the way over Switzerland, but by riding a bike"
[20:28] <chrisstubbs> It will correct the frequency for a bit and stay within the waterfall drawing zig zags. then just jump like 10khz
[20:28] Action: fsphil notices the Gym in the background
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> that is like a gym where you get sent by a doctor if your back hurts or so
[20:29] <mfa298> on the plus side, that sort of payload would mean there's a reason behind asking for a dial frequency every 10 minutes
[20:29] <fsphil> kranken
[20:29] <fsphil> sounds painful
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> physiotherapy
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> that's the word
[20:30] <fsphil> ah
[20:30] <fsphil> bone braken
[20:30] <fsphil> kraken*
[20:30] <fsphil> braken works too
[20:30] <chrisstubbs> RTTY-FHSS
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:31] <fsphil> RTTY -- random teletype
[20:31] <mfa298> sounds like it should be an april 1st payload
[20:31] <chrisstubbs> just make it print garbage too, so even if you do lock on you can never tell if its decoding properly
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[20:32] <fsphil> sounds like ssdv
[20:32] <mfa298> you could god for really confuse people by having some random characters but still pass the checksum
[20:32] <fsphil> sounds like 8-bit CRC
[20:33] <chrisstubbs> lol
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[20:34] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> <delurks>
[20:34] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> chrisstubbs: 10kHz jump sounds like channel change - accidental write to register 79h, maybe?
[20:35] <chrisstubbs> nope dont touch 0x79
[20:35] <chrisstubbs> The code just needs some decent debugging im sure
[20:36] Action: chrisstubbs adds serial debugging
[20:37] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> Does it still do it if you slow the SPI bus a bit?
[20:38] <chrisstubbs> Didnt know you could do that, and I have no idea how :P
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> btw my payload like had a hard time getting a lock
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> and I was wondering why
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> then I found out that the code of course had stopped as it was told to in the setup section as there was no SD card
[20:38] <SP9UOB> fsphil: 29.494 MHz payload is ready, im launching tommorow
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> now the strangeness was, that even with a card inserted, the red LED was on and the code still stopped
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> removing the instruction to light the Red LED before breaking the program then worked
[20:40] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> Will google rfm22 library and see if I can figure it
[20:40] <x-f> SP9UOB, five payloads, one balloon?
[20:40] <chrisstubbs> h4yn0nnym0u5e, its a fault with my code
[20:40] <chrisstubbs> the loop stops running
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[20:41] <SP9UOB> x-f: yeah:-)
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[20:41] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> That's easier to fix than SPI speed!
[20:41] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> Tho I've known SPI a bit cranky when you try to get it to go fast on new hardware...
[20:44] <chrisstubbs> ok this is working pretty well now ;)
[20:49] <fsphil> SP9UOB: aah brill, I'll have a listen out
[20:49] <fsphil> SP9UOB: what time?
[20:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement: XABEN50"
[20:50] <fsphil> there's been a few reports of good 6m propagation lately
[20:50] <SP9UOB> fsphil: launch @10 utc
[20:50] <fsphil> busy weekend
[20:50] <SP9UOB> anyway im still waiting for flight doc approval
[20:50] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> excellent :)
[20:52] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> SPI defaults to 1MHz in the RFM22 library, plenty slow enough for a small PCB
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[20:55] <chrisstubbs> Results of the badly written AFC experiment: http://bit.ly/13QNwtg
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[20:56] <chrisstubbs> Looks like its going to create more problems than it solves
[20:57] <mfa298> could be interesting.
[20:58] <mfa298> would probably work better if you could do a smaller jump
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[20:58] <chrisstubbs> good interesting or bad interesting? :P
[20:58] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, thats the smallest frequency change I seem to be able to get out of the rfm
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[20:58] <chrisstubbs> not sure if thats down to the rfm, or the precision of floats in arduino
[20:58] <ibanezmatt13> The Radio transmitter and GPS is on its way! :)
[20:59] <mfa298> that size of change might be a bit akward.
[20:59] <mfa298> I wouldn't be surprised if you're limited to that size of jump
[21:00] <chrisstubbs> palying with the xtal loading caps gave an even bigger jump, i expected it to be much more fine
[21:00] <chrisstubbs> but i suppose that xtal frequency is getting multiplied up
[21:00] <chrisstubbs> "Floats have only 6-7 decimal digits of precision."
[21:01] <mfa298> I'm not sure I'd like having to have the filters that wide in fldigi
[21:01] <chrisstubbs> but yeah there would be no reason for the manufacturers to make the adjustments so fine for a cheap module like that
[21:01] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, would it pick up too much noise?
[21:01] <mfa298> although I suppose it might be better than having to retune the radio too often
[21:02] <mfa298> the extra noise would be my concern - although it could be ok.
[21:02] <chrisstubbs> an experiment, but not sure if its an experiment worth flying
[21:02] <mfa298> it's probably something to try on a real flight with a normal tracker as backup and see how well it works for people
[21:03] <chrisstubbs> the next flight i was planning already had 2 experimental trackers on it :P
[21:04] <h4yn0nnym0u5e> jumps are in 156.25Hz units, according to my calcs based on the data sheet
[21:04] <mfa298> that sounds vaguely familiar from when I looked at the datasheet ages ago.
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[21:04] <chrisstubbs> Ah yes they are, just spotted that number on page 25
[21:04] <mfa298> and looks to be the sort of size the jump was in the video
[21:05] <mfa298> I suppose for a flight it might depend on how often it's jumping and how noisy the band is for the various recievers
[21:06] <mfa298> although on the plus side having the transmitter retune like that it can do it between sentences and have a long enough preamble that the recievers can lock on and not loose a sentence
[21:08] <ibanezmatt13> When using the NTX2 anda Raspberry Pi, do you set the circuit up as a voltage divider as shown on this tutorial? http://www.ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[21:12] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[21:12] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, yes you do, but the resistor values may be different
[21:12] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[21:12] <chrisstubbs> as its powererd by 5v, but the data is 3v3
[21:13] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks :)
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[21:26] <Willdude123> Evening.
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[21:27] <Willdude123> My location: Oakley, United Kingdom
[21:27] <Willdude123> Wtf
[21:27] <Willdude123> My location: Oakley, United Kingdom
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[21:27] <Willdude123> Dafuq again.
[21:27] <Willdude123> Idk
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> who does claim that you are from there?
[21:28] <Willdude123> Accidentally pressed à button.
[21:28] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:31] <Laurenceb_> DOYOULIVEINOAKLEY????
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[21:37] <Laurenceb_> looks like you live close to the world famous tom66
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> you should meet up
[21:39] <Laurenceb_> http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/3/2/4/0/5/7/a4918699-78-DSCN7695.jpg
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[21:42] <arko> holy smokes
[21:42] <arko> get some iso on that shit
[21:43] <jonsowman> [M#[03@kernelslacker 1h
[21:43] <jonsowman> er
[21:43] <jonsowman> sorry
[21:45] <chrisstubbs> Laurenceb, i hope thats flux
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[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> the board looks like it has been exposed to high temperature
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[21:54] <eroomde> how cool is this
[21:54] <eroomde> http://uk.farnell.com/analog-devices/ad8302aruz/rf-if-gain-phase-detector-tssop14/dp/1498702
[21:55] <eroomde> gives you gain and phase difference between 2 inputs up to 2.7GHz
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, did you see my board I told of yesterday?
[21:55] <eroomde> DIY VNA
[21:55] <eroomde> no
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> I think you also wanted to see how it looks like
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/f/e/v/5yv7rd-kqsx78-2fwx/IMG0087.jpeg
[21:55] <eroomde> nice
[21:55] <eroomde> SD FAIL :)
[21:56] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: ad has kitty's of really cool parts
[21:56] <SpeedEvil> lots of
[21:56] <eroomde> yeah
[21:56] <eroomde> this looks great i'd absolutely love to make a VNA around one
[21:56] <eroomde> the 0-3ghz siggen would be the tricksie bit
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> btw what I noticed
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> the screw terminal is connected to A3
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> and since then the pin does not float around that much anymore
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> like an unconnected analogue pin floats
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> but now it like gives almost the same bit value on every sample
[21:58] <eroomde> screw terminal to what?
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> the green one
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> it will later be the connection to the electrometer
[21:59] <SP9UOB> http://amsat-uk.org/2013/05/24/near-space-amateur-radio-balloon/
[21:59] <SP9UOB> Well :-)
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[22:00] <heathkid> has anyone flown the RFM22B?
[22:00] <craag> heathkid: Many people.
[22:01] <heathkid> good to know
[22:01] <craag> It's a bit more drifty on temperature, and the crystal is only rated down to -20, so tends to fail if it gets too cold (eg float flights).
[22:01] <craag> Normal up/down flights it tends to work fine.
[22:02] <heathkid> wouldn't need a transceiver for a float flight anyway
[22:02] <heathkid> well... maybe
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: so i thought up a cool "rocket" experiment to try
[22:02] <SP9UOB> night all
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> slush LN2 with N2 gas
[22:02] <craag> upu is working on some kind of tcxo replacement crystal I believe.
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> in a giffard injector
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[22:03] <Laurenceb_> might give a good proof of concept
[22:03] Action: SpeedEvil wishes cryogenics was easier.
[22:04] <Laurenceb_> LN2 + vac pump
[22:04] <Laurenceb_> simple
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[22:07] <Laurenceb_> wonder how far you could go towards a totally plastic rocket
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[22:08] <SpeedEvil> does composite count?
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> kevlar
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> kevlar for tanks, ablative chamber.
[22:09] <Laurenceb_> with injectors the pumps can be made from nylon
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> I suppose you're going to say water bottle rockets don't count.
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[22:11] <Laurenceb_> heh
[22:11] <Laurenceb_> PET tanks might work
[22:11] <Laurenceb_> not sure how going below glass transition point effects tensile strength
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> quite.
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> 120psi pressure fed isn't terrible
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> sure, you aren't getting to orbit in one stage.
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[22:50] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/bZRuS7p.jpg
[22:51] <lz1dev> http://i.imgur.com/tOUVBZq.gif
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00222346708212361?journalCode=lmsb20#.UZ_u1dfR6f4
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> intriguing
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> wtf is "toughness"
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[22:52] <SpeedEvil> fracture energy
[22:52] <Laurenceb_> arko wtf?!
[22:53] <Laurenceb_> oh i see
[22:53] <Laurenceb_> it does have a physical meaning :P
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> biracial means the expanded plastic as found in transparent bottles
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[22:59] <Laurenceb_> http://66.18.210.80/manuals/KF%20Contromatics/Zeus_Low_Temp-PTFE.pdf
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> interesting stuff
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[23:24] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: that does not really clarify strength
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> biaxial pet bottles at 0 c are not noticeably brittle
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> 70c under the glass transition
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> i think they are saying it reacts
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> oh, with lox
[23:31] <Laurenceb_> yeah
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[00:00] --- Sat May 25 2013