highaltitude.log.20130521

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[01:00] <nigelvh> ping Upu
[01:00] <nigelvh> Probably too late.
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[02:09] <BrainDamage> http://i.imgur.com/2JYjREL.jpg apollo flight plan
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[03:43] <heathkid> okay... testing the tracker with a 808HD keychain video camera less than 2" away...
[03:43] <heathkid> so far so good... zero interference with the GPS
[03:44] <arko> oh thats good
[03:48] <heathkid> let's go a step better...
[03:49] <heathkid> okay... NOW... camera recording while sitting ON TOP of the GPS antenna and chip... :)
[03:49] <heathkid> oops
[03:49] <heathkid> hold on
[03:50] <heathkid> dropped me to 3 sats
[03:50] <heathkid> don't block the antenna! :)
[03:50] <heathkid> now just on top of the GPS chip
[03:55] <heathkid> let me take it back outside... seems I only had 3 or 4 sats to begin with...
[03:57] <heathkid> okay...
[03:57] <heathkid> now I'm back to 6 sats with the 808HD camera pointing at the led less than 1/4" away from the GPS chip
[03:58] <heathkid> not on top of it... things were getting warm
[03:59] <heathkid> still getting good results
[03:59] <heathkid> seems immune to interference from the 808
[03:59] <heathkid> now this is an older 808... not sure which version (couple years old)...
[03:59] <heathkid> have a new 808HD version 18 on the way
[04:00] <heathkid> still at 6 sats
[04:00] <heathkid> has anyone flown a li-poly to 100k ft.?
[04:01] <heathkid> was thinking of just swapping out the 250mAh to something larger for longer record time... seems to be 250mAh per hour of recording
[04:01] <heathkid> 720P30
[04:02] <heathkid> I need 102 minutes plus descent time ...plus....
[04:02] <heathkid> current calculations for a 300g payload are 102 minutes to burst... plan to use either an 18" or 24" Spheroschute
[04:03] <heathkid> depending on how close I get to 300g without having to add ballast
[04:03] <heathkid> right now... just the electronics and batteries are maybe 1/6 that...
[04:04] <heathkid> well... right now I'd be lucky to hit 60g
[04:04] <heathkid> unless I change the li-poly in the camera
[04:04] <heathkid> am I talking to myself again? :P
[04:10] <heathkid> figures...
[04:10] <heathkid> once again... I'm in the wrong time zone.
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[04:42] <heathkid> but if anyone cares... my testing for an hour (limited testing)... shows the 808HD keychain camera has no affect on the uBlox-6 GPS module...
[04:43] <heathkid> it *might* (not sure) drop one sat with it in VERY close proximity
[04:44] <heathkid> it either does or doesn't... but still within what I've seen without it even charged let alone recording 720P HD video less than 1/4" away from the uBlox chip...
[04:44] <heathkid> take that for what it's worth...
[04:45] <heathkid> I'll test the newer version before launch... but one way or another... an 808 is going up with my payload
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[05:14] <x-f> that's good news
[05:17] <x-f> some have flown LiPo batteries, the iHAB project does that, iirc
[05:17] <Randomskk> I've flown lipos, they worked fine
[05:19] <x-f> morning, Randomskk, still on your random timezone? :)
[05:19] <Randomskk> I'm actually up early!
[05:19] <Randomskk> I think I'm sleeping in two four hour chunks now
[05:19] <Randomskk> but really I have no clue what's going on
[05:20] <arko> what year is it?
[05:20] <Randomskk> I just work until I need to sleep, then I sleep until I need to work
[05:20] <Randomskk> it's a year?
[05:20] <arko> good answer
[05:20] <Randomskk> I think I've worked out how to do multiscale blob detection on my gpu using just the diffusion and localisation code I wrote for the other parts
[05:20] <Randomskk> maybe
[05:20] <Randomskk> bit worried about memory usage though. will have to do it in parts
[05:21] <x-f> heathkid, your 250 mAh LiPo most likely won't survive the whole flight, especially if you leave it inside the 808 camera and not in a warmer place somewhere deeper in the payload
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[05:26] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=v8_7yPocGPg
[05:26] <arko> this is great
[05:27] <arko> nsfwish
[05:27] <arko> lang?
[05:27] <arko> op, ok, its nsfw crap. my appologizes
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[05:38] <Upu> ping nigelvh yes it was too early :)
[05:38] <nigelvh> Two bits. 1. the GPSs arrived. Thank you.
[05:39] <Upu> super
[05:39] <nigelvh> 2. The timepulse output, does it stay pulled low until it grabs lock and then begins pulsing at 1Hz?
[05:40] <Upu> in fairness I've never used it
[05:40] <Upu> Darkside might know
[05:40] <nigelvh> Alrighty. I've got an LED connected to it, and it's sitting on. Though I'm using a chip antenna and it's inside.
[05:41] <nigelvh> Datasheet says it should pulse for 100ms @ 1Hz, but doesn't say what it does before lock.
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[05:48] <nigelvh> Also also, it's probably just my printer, but the MAX6 footprint seems very slightly off from the actual "pins"
[05:48] <Upu> from my library ?
[05:48] <nigelvh> yeah
[05:48] <nigelvh> If I line up pin 1, pin 8 is slightly offset on the pad.
[05:49] <Upu> suspect your printer
[05:49] <nigelvh> Like I said, probably my printer.
[05:49] <Upu> thats a fairly well tested layout
[05:49] <nigelvh> I figured.
[05:50] <nigelvh> It's not enough to make it not work, just ever so slightly off.
[05:50] <Upu> making your own PCBs ?
[05:50] <nigelvh> Yeah
[05:50] <nigelvh> I can etch single sided here at home.
[05:51] <nigelvh> Actually, I'm not so sure it is my printer now. I've got one of Thomas' PecanPico2 PCBs and I'm pretty sure he used your footprint and it's the same.
[05:52] <Upu> hmm ok I'll double check it when I get to work
[05:52] <Upu> I've never noticed it
[05:52] <nigelvh> Let me see if I can get a high res photo
[05:52] <nigelvh> Like I said, not enough to be a problem, but I noticed it.
[05:58] <Upu> worth fixing though if it is an issue
[05:58] <eroomde> mornotron
[05:58] <Randomskk> good morning
[05:58] <Upu> I'll check
[05:58] <Randomskk> is it as grey and crap there as here?
[05:58] <Upu> morning Ed
[05:58] <eroomde> yes
[05:58] <Upu> warm though Randomskk
[05:58] <eroomde> battleship grey
[05:58] <Upu> I have the window open
[05:59] <eroomde> but yes warmish
[05:59] <eroomde> can cycle to work in shorts
[05:59] <Randomskk> I imagine you cycle to work in shorts in pretty much any weather :P
[05:59] <Upu> lol was just typing that
[05:59] <nigelvh> Alright Upu, here's some photos. This one is the pin I lined up. http://digitalnigel.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/20130520-225810.jpg
[05:59] <nigelvh> Here's the one slightly off http://digitalnigel.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/20130520-225824.jpg
[06:00] <Randomskk> opencl+python is such a lovely combination
[06:00] <nigelvh> Like I said, not huge.
[06:00] <Randomskk> I can get python to unroll all my loops and write all my code for me
[06:00] <Upu> but noted
[06:00] <Randomskk> doing it in c++ must be awful
[06:00] <Upu> ok thanks I'll have a look
[06:00] <nigelvh> But you can tell the "dip" isn't in the center of the pad.
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[06:04] <ibanezmatt13> Morning :)
[06:07] <ibanezmatt13> I'm very interested in the idea of tracking other peoples' flights from my house. So I'm looking at getting everything set up on the receiving end prior to launching my own.
[06:08] <ibanezmatt13> So for that, I guess I need one of those tall poles for my garden to mount an aerial onto. I guess a normal aerial will not do the trick?
[06:08] <eroomde> it depends on lots of things
[06:08] <eroomde> but in general yes, the more unobstructed view of the sky the better
[06:08] <eroomde> being on a hill helps
[06:08] <Randomskk> a tall pole with a reasonable antenna on the top will set you up well
[06:09] <eroomde> being stuck in the bottom of a valley means getting an expensive pole won't help much
[06:09] <eroomde> most people just put something on the roof
[06:09] <Randomskk> a crap whip antenna stuck in my window leaves me barely able to hear payloads half a mile away :(
[06:09] <ibanezmatt13> Where I live we are on pretty elevated ground compared to most of the North West. So really, I'm looking at a decent antenna for the roof?
[06:09] <eroomde> yeah
[06:10] <eroomde> the watson w-50 is a popular colinear antenna
[06:10] <Randomskk> if you want to buy one, the diamond x-50n is nice
[06:10] <Randomskk> or watson w-50 is good too
[06:10] <Randomskk> what radio do you have?
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[06:10] <ibanezmatt13> it's an Alinco. I'm not sure of the exact model number, but it is definitely capable of receiving SSB
[06:10] <ibanezmatt13> It's also handheld, but it has antenna input and PC output
[06:11] <arko> anyone here have experience with OrCAD SPICE?
[06:11] <ibanezmatt13> How do these antennas connect into my reciever?
[06:13] <Randomskk> coax cable
[06:13] <Randomskk> which you'll need to get
[06:13] <Randomskk> something like rg-213 would be good, or for very short lengths rg58 is cheaper
[06:13] <ibanezmatt13> and that'll definitely go into my reciever?
[06:13] <Randomskk> and then connectors, which you'll probably need to put onto the cable yourself, depending on the antenna and your radio
[06:14] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks :)
[06:14] <Randomskk> e.g. the x-50n is an N-type connector, so that end of the cable will need a male N plug
[06:14] <Randomskk> your radio might be an SMA connector, so you'd need that for the cable - or it might be something else like SO239
[06:14] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, I'll have a look into that.
[06:15] <Randomskk> so long as you have a soldering iron and some wire cutters etc you should be okay to put the connector on, but it can be a bit tricky sometimes
[06:15] <Randomskk> some are a bit fiddly
[06:16] <ibanezmatt13> I'm just gonna have a look at my reciever
[06:16] <Randomskk> if you take a photo we can probably identify the socket, but best to see if it's in the documentation somewhere
[06:17] <ibanezmatt13> I'll grab a picture of it now
[06:18] <ibanezmatt13> I can't take a picture at the moment but I've discovered that it's an Alinco DJX-10
[06:19] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.alinco.com/pdf.files/Instruction/Handheld/djx10insweb.pdf
[06:20] <ibanezmatt13> Looking at it, it says BNC connector. But that may be just for the antenna that comes with it?
[06:20] <ibanezmatt13> Would a BNC connector be ok?
[06:20] <Randomskk> yea
[06:20] <Randomskk> that's right
[06:20] <Randomskk> so you need to get a BNC connector for whatever coax you end up getting
[06:21] <Randomskk> plus whatever is required at the other end for the antenna
[06:21] <ibanezmatt13> is coax the name of the whole cable?
[06:21] <Randomskk> coax is short for coaxial and just refers to any cable with a central conductor and an outer shield layer
[06:22] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, didn't know that :)
[06:22] <Randomskk> specific types are like RG58 and RG213 and W103 and so forth, with varying thicknesses and loss-per-metre and so forth
[06:22] <Randomskk> also you want 50 ohm cable for ham radio stuff
[06:22] <Randomskk> TV uses coax too, but 75 ohm
[06:22] <Randomskk> which would work but not quite as well
[06:22] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a look into that. Does the aerial itself need some sort of power?
[06:23] <Randomskk> nope
[06:23] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right, it said on one of the websites 200W?
[06:23] <eroomde> that's the maximum power it is rated to transmit
[06:23] <eroomde> but you are receiving
[06:24] <ibanezmatt13> that makes sense. So it's literally a cable from the antenna to my reciever and that's all?
[06:25] <Randomskk> yup
[06:25] <Randomskk> you just need to ensure the cable has the correct connectors at each end
[06:25] <ibanezmatt13> excellent! Thanks for the help, got to get off to school now. Thanks again :)
[06:25] <Randomskk> np
[06:26] <eroomde> we can help you put connectors on if you just get the cable and connectors separately
[06:26] <eroomde> it's not too hard
[06:29] <ibanezmatt13> that'd be great :)
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[06:37] <eroomde> i have to make more cables today
[06:37] <eroomde> dumdeedum
[06:37] <Randomskk> for anything exciting?
[06:37] <eroomde> we had one come back from afghanistan yesterday
[06:37] <eroomde> coevered in desert
[06:37] <eroomde> it's a tough environment out there
[06:38] <eroomde> hot-wire cutdown cables
[06:38] <Randomskk> cool
[06:38] <Randomskk> yes you suddenly appreciate environmental sealing a lot more in the middle of a desert I imagine
[06:39] <eroomde> the sand is quite alkaline too
[06:39] <eroomde> it's good at galvanic attack
[06:39] <eroomde> i am pleased that i silicone-coat the insides of the connectors before heat-shrinking
[06:40] <eroomde> as it still gets in despite nominally being sealed with adhesice heatshrink
[06:40] <Randomskk> nice
[06:41] <Randomskk> I imagine it's quite satisfying seeing very well sealed things stand up
[06:41] <eroomde> unless itsnhermetically sealed, water still gets in
[06:41] <eroomde> as james is fond of reminding
[06:41] <Randomskk> there's a nice demonstration pic somewhere
[06:41] <Randomskk> of some multistrand cable in insulation
[06:41] <eroomde> but yes it was just really caked in dust and corrosive crap
[06:41] <Randomskk> half in a glass of salty water
[06:41] <eroomde> yes i've seen that
[06:41] <Randomskk> other half hanging over a piece of paper
[06:42] <eroomde> and a pile os salt
[06:42] <Randomskk> indeed
[06:44] <Randomskk> I'm currently quite happy at how I can use the same piece of code to do signal diffusion, gaussian blurring, laplacian approximations and thus the same to do edge and blob detection
[06:44] <Randomskk> it works out to being surprisingly efficient
[06:45] <Randomskk> scale space is wonderful really
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[06:45] <Randomskk> and I'm starting to like opencl more and more
[06:45] <Randomskk> really really want to try doing this bayesian decoder business on it
[06:45] <Randomskk> ...after project
[06:45] <eroomde> :)
[06:45] <eroomde> when is deadline?
[06:45] <Randomskk> week wednesday
[06:45] <Randomskk> so, quite soon
[06:45] <Randomskk> esp considering I only have a title page so far
[06:46] <Randomskk> still frantically coding
[06:46] <eroomde> started writing?
[06:46] <eroomde> ah
[06:46] <Randomskk> my wpm is up to 145 or so, the report is 12k words, I figure I can bash that out in an hour or two ;)
[06:49] <eroomde> i saw no flaws in that reasoning
[06:49] <Randomskk> sigh
[06:50] <Randomskk> I do have a few of my figures ready, but I'm gonna need to make a few diagrams too
[06:50] <Randomskk> still I think a few more days of coding will get me a lot closer to a useful result
[06:50] <Randomskk> at the moment I don't really have anything to show for it
[06:54] <eroomde> i know the feeling
[06:54] <eroomde> Some Maths is usually good filler
[06:54] <Randomskk> yea I can put some of that in probably
[06:54] <eroomde> in lieu of actual results
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[06:55] <Randomskk> and a lot of talk about distributed programming and optimising things and some nice diagrams and chat about implementing a few computer vision bits on GPUs which might be nice
[06:55] <Randomskk> and I can probably get in the stuff I did on machine learning too, though I'm not sure if I'll still be using it
[06:55] <Randomskk> but I did train up a random forest and a support vector machine and have comparative results
[07:01] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/ZYP9TcP.png
[07:01] <arko> aww man, the bulb went out
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[07:04] <arko> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light
[07:05] <arko> for those who dont know, this bulb had been running for 110years
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[07:14] <UpuWork> ping nigelvh
[07:14] <UpuWork> its only the bottom left pad by the ublox logo isn't it ?
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[07:36] <fsphil> arko: (sorry) .. what a bright idea
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[07:37] <fsphil> I've had a few 'long lasting' bulbs fail after just a few years
[07:37] <arko> lol
[07:37] <arko> someone had to pun
[07:38] <fsphil> at least it was over in a flash
[07:38] <arko> i was half expecting it to be davake
[07:39] <daveake> <innocent face>
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[07:41] <arko> http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130213005641/fallout/images/d/dd/Oh-you-93067263235.jpeg
[07:41] <arko> daveake^
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[07:42] <daveake> hah
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[07:43] <arko> i expect daveake to only speak in puns at ukhas
[07:43] <arko> should i say, predict
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[08:42] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave B "Re: [UKHAS] FF and Flash etc."
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[09:24] <x-f> hmm, Stratodean's One GoPro at some point had similar white flashes just like fsphil's BBC launch
[09:24] <x-f> http://youtu.be/_1rgpJFRp1I?t=5m
[09:25] <griffonbot> Received email: Geoff Mather "Re: [UKHAS] FF and Flash etc."
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[09:51] <costyn> x-f: weird... some sort of encoding error?
[09:55] <HixWork> quite ironic that outside of the anti-fog inserts everything is clear
[09:55] <HixWork> just around the periphery of the image
[10:03] <daveake> I don't know if it's in the wiki but if not it should be there .. "Don't use the GoPro case"
[10:04] <daveake> Seems to be a popular problem and often mentioned here
[10:06] <HixWork> i did ask some time ago, what is the general opinion on fitting a one way check valve to allow pressure to equalise on the ascent for those that are conscious of water landings with a GoPro?
[10:08] <mattbrejza> (or use a waterproof camera)
[10:08] <daveake> I don't think anyone's tried, however that essentially is what the case does. It allows the air to escape but doesn't let it back in. Just try opening the case after landing!
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[10:08] <daveake> The strips are the main problem you could try removing them
[10:08] <Brace> has anyone used a rpi camera in a flight yet? how well do they hold up?
[10:08] <daveake> Yes and meh
[10:08] <daveake> But I was unaware that the software defaults to spot metering
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[10:09] <daveake> Which is sub-optimal
[10:09] <SpeedEvil> Brace: Don't think so
[10:09] <Brace> daveake: do you have a link to the photos?
[10:09] <SpeedEvil> The camera is pretty new.
[10:09] <SpeedEvil> The Pi alone - yes
[10:09] <daveake> SpeedEvil You're too slow :p
[10:09] <daveake> SlowEvil
[10:09] <Brace> :)
[10:09] <daveake> :)
[10:10] <daveake> http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1063
[10:10] <daveake> Best was http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/sky1.jpg
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[10:11] <Brace> that's pretty good really, I'd be happy with that
[10:11] <daveake> Yes, but the ones after were rubbish
[10:12] <daveake> I think it was the combination of a very stable flight (so no photos aimed downwards), plus spot metering, plus a lot of solid white cloud
[10:12] <Brace> so turn spot metering off then
[10:13] <daveake> I will, of course. Just wasn;'t aware it defaulted to that till after the flight when an RPi guy told me
[10:14] <Brace> yeah, I meant in general (i.e. when my mate and I use an rpi camera, we should turn it off)
[10:14] <daveake> yes definitely
[10:14] <daveake> I don't know if they changed the default. I was using pre-preoduction camera/software
[10:15] <mfa298> The pictures it "took" during the night were good though :D
[10:15] <Brace> mfa298: yeah they were awesome
[10:15] <daveake> ah yes lol
[10:15] <daveake> There were more but it ran out of time
[10:16] <SpeedEvil> daveake: neat - I diddn't realise
[10:16] <daveake> I had one comment along the lines of "How did you manage to get the camera to photograph a Windows update screen during flight?"
[10:16] <SpeedEvil> hah
[10:18] <HixWork> mattbrejza, a waterproof camera will have the same issues no?
[10:18] <mattbrejza> we used a contour which was waterproof and it was fine
[10:18] <SpeedEvil> In principle, a sealed box isn't that hard to make.
[10:18] <HixWork> not sure what the cause of fogging is if the case allows pressure to equalise
[10:18] <mattbrejza> also took better cloud images than the gopro
[10:19] <mattbrejza> well gopro 2
[10:19] <mattbrejza> rather than the new one
[10:19] <daveake> Those anti-fog strips emit moisture
[10:19] <SpeedEvil> I'd probably go with a polycarbonate jar, and solvent weld the top on.
[10:19] <SpeedEvil> Purge through a couple of tiny holes with dry nitrogen
[10:19] <daveake> Yes purging is the way to go
[10:19] <HixWork> has anyone flown a GoPro in a case with no strips inside then?
[10:20] <daveake> Not that I know of
[10:20] <HixWork> hmm, gotta be worth a try
[10:20] <daveake> yup
[10:20] <Brace> that's the first time I've looked at the new flickr interface, it's actually quite nice
[10:20] <HixWork> can't be any worse than with the strips
[10:20] <Brace> daveake: good choice in restaurant btw, that's an excellent chinese :)
[10:20] <daveake> nope
[10:20] <daveake> hah That was Liz's recommendation
[10:21] <Brace> ahhh, well she has good taste
[10:21] <daveake> She's part Malaysian guess she should know :)
[10:22] <Brace> that and it's in the Good Food guide
[10:22] <SpeedEvil> Bake the perspex first to remove water
[10:23] <fsphil> x-f: oh that's interesting
[10:24] <GW8RAK> daveake - just been reading your blog and was thinking about SSDV. Has anyone tried transmitting 300bd on 2 channels simultaneously to get 600bd effective? Some of my customers did that in the Arctic a few years ago (6 satellite phone channels for 4 each = big costs)
[10:26] <mattbrejza> dave has had two NTX2s sending two seperate images at once
[10:26] <mattbrejza> rather than them sending the same image
[10:26] <daveake> I tried both here - separate images or 1 interlaced
[10:27] <GW8RAK> I was specifically thinking of 1 image being downlinked faster or in higher res.
[10:27] <daveake> Both work but the problem with interlaced is you need 2 listeners to get a complete image
[10:27] <cuddykid> daveake: congrats on the radio licence - just saw your tweet
[10:27] <daveake> ah ta :)
[10:27] <GW8RAK> True, but it's not a major problem having 2 rx's
[10:28] <daveake> Indeed. 2 channels of SSDV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-87YlNoZfM&feature=share&list=UUqu2gUbNzBRzb2Ejn5XtC1w
[10:28] <GW8RAK> Another licencee - excellent
[10:28] <daveake> M6Can'tWait
[10:29] <daveake> I'll go for the int lic in Sept
[10:30] <GW8RAK> Presumably, the technique can be extended to n radio channels or does it need a lot of processing power?
[10:30] <daveake> No tis easy on the processor
[10:31] <GW8RAK> My customers clocked up $250K on their expedition just on phone calls.
[10:31] <cuddykid> just watching the bloomberg bit - "credit card sized chip", I think it's a little smaller than that bloomberg!
[10:31] <daveake> Just need the AVR timer interrupt to service multiple NTX2s
[10:32] <HixWork> what was the exped GW8RAK ? thats a fair bit of sat calling or was there data too
[10:32] <daveake> btw it was UpuWork's idea to do the 2 channels.
[10:33] <daveake> He tends to have these ideas then leave the implementation to me :p
[10:33] <daveake> Teamwork :)
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[10:37] <daveake> That's going to be confusing
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[10:38] <Ugi> Hi Guys (& indeed Gals)!
[10:39] <fsphil> dual images again or split down the middle?
[10:40] <Ugi> There's a balloon on the tracker map today called NSEPI - looks like it was a comm's test last night.
[10:41] <Ugi> Anyone know anything about it? I just ask because it's tracked position is ~10miles from my house!
[10:41] <cuddykid> MI5 I believe
[10:41] <mfa298> Ugi: at a guess it could be chrisstubbs
[10:42] <cuddykid> yes, it's chrisstubbs
[10:42] <cuddykid> there's a few HABists around that area I believe Ugi
[10:42] <mfa298> checking the map and seeing who the reciever is gives it away. My first guess was before looking at the map
[10:43] <GW8RAK> HixWork - mostly data from ice penetrating radar. Catlin Arctic survey
[10:43] <Ugi> Fab. Does chrisstubbs frequent these here pages?
[10:43] <costyn> Ugi: yes, now that we've mentioned him a couple times he should notice
[10:43] <mfa298> A heat map of where HABists live could be interesting. I suspect hot areas would be around Chelmsford and Southampton.
[10:44] <mfa298> and I suspect a Heat Map of launch locations would be totally different.
[10:44] <Ugi> I just wondered whether there was a balloon going up near me soon. If nothing else, I hopefully have a 2nd-hand radio in the post and would be fun to track overhead!
[10:45] <GW8RAK> fsphil - I was just asking about sending one image over two simultaneous radio channels
[10:45] <HixWork> where are you based Ugi? I'm Waltham Abbey / Epping way
[10:45] <mfa298> Ugi: with a reasonable antenna and location you should be able to track a lot of flights.
[10:45] <Ugi> Shenfield, near Brentwood in Essex
[10:46] <costyn> Ugi: good location to track
[10:46] <Ugi> Location may be the issue - we are next to an electric train line, which I guess is pretty noisy.
[10:46] <mfa298> with a good enough reciever it shouldn't be an issue
[10:46] <mfa298> what radio are you getting ?
[10:47] <GW8RAK> Most electrical noise will be down in HF with not a lot getting up to UHF
[10:47] <Ugi> An old FT-790R (as a first toe in the water) is that likely to cut it?
[10:47] <daveake> perfect
[10:47] <mfa298> I've not used them but they seem to be popular
[10:47] <GW8RAK> That will do it, and not just as a first toe in the water.
[10:48] <GW8RAK> Add a preamp and it'll be as good as anything available now.
[10:48] <mfa298> next bit will to have a reasonable antenna.
[10:48] <Ugi> Good to hear. What type of pre-amp? Do I need that right away?
[10:48] <Geoff-G8DHE_> What sort of aerial do you have Ugi
[10:49] <mfa298> The filtering on the reciever of that should be good to not be affected by most rf an electric train produces.
[10:49] <Ugi> I don't have it yet - in the post now - but just comes with a basic (whip?) antenna I understand
[10:49] <GW8RAK> Since you are close to the main centre of activity, I'd try it as it is for a few flights. I use a G0MRF one which has low response below 420MHz
[10:49] <chrisstubbs> Hi Ugi
[10:49] <chrisstubbs> Just at work, brb
[10:49] <Ugi> No sweat.
[10:50] <Geoff-G8DHE_> In that case you really want to get a simple monopole up outside, but your close enough to some action to probably get some signals on the whip
[10:51] <Ugi> I thought that if chrisstubbs was sending something up from 10 miles, I ought to be able to catch that at least!
[10:51] <Geoff-G8DHE_> almost certainly you will
[10:51] <Geoff-G8DHE_> But you will then want to continue tracking further afield!
[10:52] <Ugi> I imagine that I might!
[10:52] <mfa298> a lot of flights from that area are sent up from cambridge, but you should be able to get a reasonable range.
[10:52] <mfa298> if you're using the whip that comes with it you might want to be outside.
[10:53] <Ugi> How do I go about putting up an outside antenna? Is that something to buy or make or either or both?
[10:53] <mfa298> I think I've picked up payloads on my handheld radio at 20-30 miles with it's standard rubber duck antenna (when outside)
[10:53] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Both yes buy the aerial itself and then mount it - depends what sort of house access you have
[10:54] <mfa298> you can either build or buy an antenna. Buying is easier and should be waterproof. Building requires some skill and if it's outside you'll need to waterproof it.
[10:54] <Ugi> I am having some roof-work done in the next 6 months, I hope. Would it be useful to have an antenna mounted on the TV pole at the top of the house when that happens?
[10:55] <mfa298> that's likely to be an ideal location. But you need to ensure that the mountings are strong enough.
[10:55] <mfa298> Then have some decent coax down to where you use the radio (RG213 is probably a good choice)
[10:55] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ideal, and a monopole type is not heavy on the mountings either
[10:55] <GW8RAK> And if you put it up there, it will be up for a long time, so make sure you consider future requirements
[10:56] <Ugi> OK. Sounds like I should riase that issue again once we know that this is defo' happening - waiting on planning permission ATM
[10:56] <gonzo_> a 6-10ft fibre glass dual band type colinear is oprobably about optimal for HAB work
[10:57] <Ugi> 10ft! That sounds like a monster antenna!
[10:57] <Geoff-G8DHE_> http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/amateur-radio/antennas/base-antennas/sirio-sa270sn something like this is quite cheap mine has been up for 20+ years still performing well
[10:57] <gonzo_> (I have the oposite. I've just taken antennas down so the roofers can get access!!)
[10:58] <gonzo_> 10ft will look tiny when it's up on the roof. Just have to get 8it there before the missis sees it.
[10:58] <mfa298> In terms of radio that's nowhere near a monster antenna
[10:58] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTKKTHwRFzY
[10:58] <craag> 10ft is maybe a little OTT for a hab antenna. Especially as if he's that close to launch sites, less gain at the horizon may be better.
[10:59] <Geoff-G8DHE_> That one above is only 4 foot long
[10:59] <mfa298> it's amazing what people don't notice. I've done radio events where we've had a 10m telescopic mast with something similar on top and you ask people coming in if they saw it and the say no.
[10:59] <Ugi> I could probably justify (both in cost and size) the one linked above.
[10:59] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE_: Yep, that gets a +1 from me!
[10:59] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0m8ttwktufx16wz/2013-05-21%2011.57.05.jpg
[10:59] <eroomde> Randomskk: ^
[11:00] <eroomde> the new side cutters mit der ultra-flush edge
[11:00] <gonzo_> I used to run a 4ft one. Worked well, but the 10ft I just put up is a defenite improvement. I am a long way from the launch sites though
[11:00] <eroomde> with my general purpose ones for comparison
[11:00] Action: daveake Approves eroomde
[11:01] <Geoff-G8DHE_> If you can afford more then do so, it will be up for a long time and the longer it is the higher the gain which always helps! Plus its not the sort of thing you need to change or play with, its sort of single install and forget job!
[11:01] <gonzo_> playing with the elevation on the yagi, I found that there was little improvement pointing the antenna above the horison. Apart from a reduction in the local qrm
[11:01] <mfa298> Ugi: in the mean time, if you could get access to something like a scafold pole that could make a good mast to put an antenna on - and you can probably put it up as a temporary mast so shouldn't need planning.
[11:01] <daveake> and use some decent cable
[11:02] <gonzo_> so from my yagi tests I surmidsed that (at my location) gain at the horison would be good. Ant it was.
[11:04] <Ugi> Thanks all - I'll try to get something up outside when I can convince Mrs Ugi I'm not just messing about!
[11:04] <gonzo_> I have a scaff mast that has an H assy concreted in the ground, so that the scaf can hinge down. Something like that would do as a temp mast. If installed so you can tilt it down and hide it along a fence etc. with an ali scaf pole (20ft) it works well free standing. Even with an extra 12ft of extension pole and a 10ft colinear
[11:05] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ugi consider this range anything which covers 433/70cms but dual band is conmmon 145/433 - 2m/70cms http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/amateur-radio/antennas/base-antennas/?sort=1&stock=&brand=&f[]=102
[11:07] <mfa298> for masts it can also be worth looking on the ham resellers as they often have useful options.
[11:08] <Ugi> Fab. Thanks for the links.
[11:08] <mfa298> althoguh for the telescopic ones the top sections may not take much weight.
[11:15] <fsphil> GW8RAK: yea that's possible, though it's risky as either channel having issues would ruin every image
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[11:23] <chrisstubbs> Ugi I have a few payloads being built for flights in the next couple of months
[11:23] <chrisstubbs> there is also a guy in galleywood
[11:23] <chrisstubbs> and cm13g09 local to chelmsford
[11:23] <chrisstubbs> Better be off now, I will be on tonight at about 5PM :)
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[11:23] <Ugi> Cool. Thanks
[11:30] <HixWork> This could be useful, you can get 5m lengths for ~£20 http://goo.gl/9CEzH
[11:39] <mfa298> I think at a radio rally you can probably get parts for a similar cost with slightly tapered ends so you can easily stack them.
[11:39] <mfa298> I think those sections are around 1.5m so you need a few to get a decent height (but much easier to transport)
[11:40] <mfa298> my telescopic mast (with 2m sections) will just about fit in my fairly small car.
[11:40] <daveake> When I've moved house I'm getting one of these http://www.hamradiosales.co.uk/Mvc-022s.jpg
[11:40] <mfa298> although a single 5m length would be good for something slightly more permanent
[11:41] <mfa298> oooh, a clark mast. They're very nice - although pricey (and fairly heavy)
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[11:42] <daveake> Yeah, but the next house (fingers crossed) is a converted barn I don't really want a permanent mast
[11:42] <daveake> It's on the top of a hill and the garden has a rear gate onto the adjacent launch pad, er, field, so otherwise perfect :)
[11:43] <mfa298> when I got mine I wanted something that could be carried fairly easily (including via bus) so clark masts were just out of being suitable.
[11:43] <daveake> Yeah, not really portable unless it's bolted to the back of a LandRover
[11:44] <mfa298> I've got one of these www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/atm-65_11-section_portable_aluminium_mast_19_8m_65ftlong-p-5382.html
[11:44] <mfa298> which isn't bad, but takes a bit of effort to put up
[11:44] <daveake> 20m !! Not bad :)
[11:44] <mfa298> and I've never used the whole 20m in one piece.
[11:44] <daveake> Mine is 10m but needs the guys
[11:45] <mfa298> I've usually used 6 sections at one end with a vertical and end of a hf dipole and then used the other sections for the other end of the dipole.
[11:45] <daveake> nice
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[11:45] <mfa298> I've tended to guy unless I've got something substantial to tie onto at the bottom.
[11:46] <daveake> yeah
[11:46] <mfa298> (like a 3m high fence that mounted into lots of concrete
[11:46] <daveake> I usually leave the guy ropes connected but lying on the ground, so it's a bit quicker to erect
[11:46] <daveake> but then I only ever use mine at home
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[11:48] <gonzo_> I have welded scaf base concreted into ground, 20ft ali sfac, rotator, 12ft lighter alo pole (tv ant mast) and a 4ele 4mtr yagi and 10ft colinera on top. All freestanding.
[11:49] <mfa298> The other thing I've used as a mobile mast is a 2m length of 34mm waste pipe from wickes - although that's only good if the local obstructions are lower than 2m
[11:49] <gonzo_> the flex in all the ali seems to just flex in high winds
[11:50] <gonzo_> undo a clamp and the whole lot just walks down to the ground in a few sec
[11:55] <craag> mfa298: I thought I might try this weekend bringing along a 4m alu scaff to lash/lean up against something with the collinear on top.
[11:56] Action: mfa298 wishes I had a garden to put a mast in.
[11:58] <mfa298> craag: that could be good - I've got my 2m abs pipe still and gp15 which also works well (and just needs a bit of gaffer to lash it to a suitable fence post)
[11:59] <craag> mfa298: Where were you thinking of tracking from btw?
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[12:00] <mfa298> cr no idea yet
[12:00] <mfa298> s/cr/craag:/
[12:02] <Babs> *Puts on Linen Suit*
[12:02] <Babs> *Adopts man from Del Monte voice*
[12:02] <Babs> The man from the CAA, he say yes
[12:02] <craag> Babs: :)
[12:02] <Babs> BABSHAB is go
[12:03] <costyn> Babs: noice
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[12:05] <Babs_> Good job too, because my best mate got 9 cubes of helium delivered yesterday
[12:06] <Babs_> even him and I can't entertain doing silly high pitched voices for sufficiently long time to use all of that up on our own
[12:06] <costyn> Babs: haha
[12:06] <LazyLeopard> Good luck!
[12:06] <costyn> Babs: besides which, doing it more than a few times is dangerous
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[12:07] <Babs_> Cheers LazyLeopard, my permission is for between 0400-0700 however so it will be an early start
[12:08] <Babs_> Daveake's lie-in to avoid a frequency conflict on Saturday is assured
[12:08] <UpuWork> good luck babs
[12:08] <chris_99> do you need to ring up the air traffic control too out of interest
[12:08] <UpuWork> sadly won't be about
[12:08] <daveake> Thanks Babs_ :)
[12:09] <Babs_> Cheers UpuWork - shame you won't be around, does your set up track automatically?
[12:09] <UpuWork> once locked in yes
[12:09] <UpuWork> but won't be about to do that sadly
[12:09] <UpuWork> in Scotland where Whisky is good and internet not so
[12:09] <Babs_> chris_99 - no, I just need to keep my phone on
[12:09] <chris_99> aha cool
[12:10] <LazyLeopard> Babs_: Ugh!
[12:10] <LazyLeopard> Is that launch time, or total flight time?
[12:11] <Babs_> launch time
[12:11] <LazyLeopard> Ok.
[12:11] <Babs_> For some reason they gave me that window last year, the only thing I can think of is that north of Oxford is a little busy for either private airfields or Birmingham and Heathrow
[12:12] <Babs_> Although I think daveake launches from not too far away and I don't think he has such problems
[12:12] <daveake> hmm
[12:12] <daveake> No restrictions here no
[12:12] <daveake> Had one application rejected when there was some minor airshow on at Fairford :p but otherwise no issues
[12:13] <Babs_> Secondary launch location in Foxcote too as a backup
[12:13] <Babs_> daveake - you should have offered a balloon as a target for it
[12:13] <daveake> :)
[12:13] <Babs_> Eurofighter 1 - Pie 0
[12:14] <daveake> Wow, my notam has been issued already
[12:14] <Babs_> Or Pi even
[12:14] <Babs_> Unless you were flying a Pie
[12:14] <daveake> DM must be on holiday for the rest of the week
[12:14] <Babs_> daveake - arf
[12:14] <daveake> Not heard from him yet; just spotted it on notaminfo
[12:14] <Babs_> He's spraying them out today like David Beckham in his pomp
[12:15] <daveake> Reaching all corners of the net
[12:15] <Babs_> Am massively obsessed currently with Upu's hourly predictor
[12:16] <daveake> Yours is the Great Tew one?
[12:16] <daveake> and the Foxcote one?
[12:16] <Babs_> Daveake, yes.
[12:16] <daveake> Interestingly mine is much bigger than yours :p
[12:16] <Babs_> Where are you seeing them?
[12:16] <daveake> No idea what determines that
[12:16] <daveake> http://notaminfo.com/ukmap
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[12:21] <chrisstubbs> Need to fill out another form for my next launch!
[12:21] <daveake> I got it in one .... DM: "I am away after today"
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[12:21] <chrisstubbs> Hope he forgets about the stupid restrictions he put on the last one
[12:22] <Babs> "He held the entire world of HAB-ing in his hands"
[12:22] <Babs> There is a Hollywood film in the making there surely
[12:24] <daveake> I love the smell of latex in the morning
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[12:25] <Babs> "I want permission to launch"
[12:26] <Babs> "YOU CAN'T HANDLE PERMISSION TO LAUNCH"
[12:26] <costyn> hehehe
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[12:33] <chrisstubbs> daveake: will you be running 300/600 baud?
[12:34] <daveake> Probably 600 on both channels
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[12:34] <chrisstubbs> Ok cool
[12:34] <daveake> Then I don't have to change the code :)
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[12:38] <fsphil> is this going to be the oddly shaped payload?
[12:38] <daveake> Odd, you say? :)
[12:38] <daveake> yes
[12:39] <costyn> define odd?
[12:39] <daveake> This one http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1005
[12:41] <costyn> daveake: ha, cool
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[12:43] <daveake> It does of course have to fly upside-down. And those photos were taken befoire I connected the aerials
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[12:54] <Ugi> Great lookign pi projectdaveake - just had a quick look from your link.
[12:54] <fsphil> it's certainly snazzy
[12:54] <fsphil> mine will not be nearly as pretty
[12:55] <fsphil> though I may draw a face on it
[12:55] <Ugi> Did I read that you are using two NTX2s? Is that necessary?
[12:55] <fsphil> that worked well for the last flight to do it
[12:55] <Ugi> I've never done any of this, but the usual method seems to use a 500Hz shift from the available 3KHz - could you not get two bands into that 3KHz from one transmitter?
[12:56] <fsphil> you could but it would be risky
[12:56] <daveake> You'd really need to temperature-control them to get them spaced
[12:56] <Ugi> One shifted 500-1000Hz second 2000-2500, for example
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[12:57] <daveake> Last flight I put them a few kHz apart, meaning those with an SDR could decode both with one receiver
[12:57] <Ugi> I see - just wondered. Seemed like a way to get more from the hardware.
[12:58] <daveake> Oh sorry you said 1 transmitter
[12:58] <daveake> No
[12:58] <daveake> You could try a different encoding scheme rather than rtty
[13:00] <Ugi> encode with more than two states?
[13:01] <daveake> yes, sorry bit busy here I'll let someone who knows about that answer :)
[13:02] <Ugi> No worried - I should walk before I try to run! It's just that it seems like more could be wrung from that 3KHz window!
[13:02] <Ugi> Thanks for your time
[13:02] <Ugi> _worries_
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[13:06] <mfa298> Ugi: I think a few people have been thinking of using other modes. Although drift might become more of an issue
[13:08] <Ugi> Cool. I don't have any Linux experience so it'll be a long time before I'm pushing any records but it's interesting to think about. I'm still amazed that you can get anything from a 10mW transmitter at 100s of miles!
[13:09] <Brace> it's always impressive how far UHF can go with a clear line of site
[13:10] <Brace> personally I've always found HF more interesting, but that's just me
[13:11] <Ugi> 10mW is about half the power-draw of a red LED! How in the name of anything are you supposed to see that from 100 miles!?
[13:11] <Ugi> Why so HF?
[13:11] <daveake> super duper receivers
[13:11] <gonzo_> simple fsk is all we can do with the licence exempt madules that we mainly use. Though mfsk is doable, so still open for development
[13:11] <daveake> That power and band are license-free
[13:12] <daveake> and allowed for airborne use
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[13:12] <gonzo_> HF is just so noisy, you need lots of filtering etc on the rx
[13:14] <fsphil> was tuning about HF yesterday, heard some aircraft over the atlantic - got me thinking, where is the HF antenna on an aircraft?
[13:14] <gonzo_> used to be strung from the back of the cockput to the tip of the tail
[13:15] <daveake> http://balanis.faculty.asu.edu/AHE/ximg/heli500.JPG
[13:15] <fsphil> wouldn't that make it fairly directional?
[13:16] <fsphil> aah it's on the outside of the tail
[13:16] <gonzo_> it's so short wrt wavelength it's probably go so many lobes, it's prob closer to omni
[13:16] <gonzo_> they use to be. Strung outside
[13:16] <daveake> http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/481712.pdf
[13:17] <daveake> ^^ coupler - plane is the antenna
[13:17] <gonzo_> nit seen them run along the body. they used to be in free air
[13:20] <daveake> eeek http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eiYoBbEZwlk
[13:22] <costyn> TimeWarp = awesome!
[13:28] <fsphil> daveake: difficult to watch even though I knew it would work
[13:28] <daveake> yep
[13:29] <daveake> Understandably he did approach the blade very very slowly :)
[13:30] <fsphil> great invention though
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[13:32] <daveake> yup
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[13:37] <Brace> I know that on older (WWII) planes the antenna were strung along the top of the plane, not sure what they do now
[13:38] <Brace> my Grandad was a bomb aimer/radio operator on a Halifax in WWII, so I've heard quite a lot of detail about the radios from him
[13:38] <costyn> seems like it wouldn't be too hard to implement on other powertools as well
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[13:50] <Brace> costyn: probably, but table saws (and to an extend bandsaws) really are what most folks loose fingers on
[13:50] <costyn> Brace: ok yea
[13:50] <Brace> I'm a wimp, so most of my woodworking is using handtools
[13:50] <daveake> I once removed a fingernail with a belt sander
[13:51] <daveake> that hurt
[13:51] <Brace> but I reckon you could implement a similar system with a bandsaw
[13:51] <Brace> just got to get something to grab the bandsaw blade to stop it
[13:52] <Brace> and a mitre saw could use the same mech as a table saw
[13:52] <Brace> however you'd have to be a real numpty to hurt yourself using a mitre saw
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[14:49] <ibanezmatt13> Good Afternoon :) I've just been looking at this http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:raspberrypi It says: "consider using a switching regulator to supply the GPS etc and the pi (remove the onboard regulator and insert your 3.3V on the GPIO connector)." I have ordered the switching regulator, but I do not see how this is possible given that you power the Pi with 5v and the GPS with 3.3v????
[14:51] <daveake> The model A doesn't need 5V
[14:51] <daveake> Anyway ignore that do what I said yesterday :)
[14:51] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah I will, I was just a little curious :)
[14:54] <ibanezmatt13> With hardware serial on the Pi, does it work by turning one of the pins on and off really quickly to get 1s and 0s?
[14:54] <daveake> yes
[14:54] <daveake> though "really quickly" is relative :)
[14:55] <ibanezmatt13> So if I wanted to test my Pi, could I make a simple LED circuit and see if it flickers really quickly?
[14:57] <ibanezmatt13> would that work?
[14:57] <daveake> https://projects.drogon.net/raspberry-pi/gpio-examples/tux-crossing/gpio-examples-1-a-single-led/
[14:59] <ibanezmatt13> is that just a normal LED circuit?
[14:59] <daveake> Yes just follow that guide everything is explained
[15:00] <Uggy> Hi guys..
[15:00] <Ugi> I don't think you will see serial data at 9600 baud - that's too fast for your eye to resolve. Need a 'scope or something.
[15:01] <Uggy> daveake: does the C code for Arduino available on the wiki works on the Pi ? Does it need many changes ? Is there an aleady working C code for pi ?
[15:01] <ibanezmatt13> I was thinking of using the serial.write function to write to the serial at around 50 baud, and then see if it makes an LED flicker.
[15:02] <Ugi> That you should see, only you still can't resolve 50Hz terribly easily. Might try slower still.
[15:02] <ibanezmatt13> so if i went for say 1 baud, would it work as a circuit?
[15:03] <ibanezmatt13> Does the serial write to the radio on the TX pin?
[15:03] <daveake> The instructions there are for controlling the pin from code, directly, not via the serial port
[15:04] <daveake> You won't be able to run the serial port that slow
[15:04] <daveake> Uggy What code? NTX2? That won't. Anything else should be easy enough to convert over.
[15:04] <ibanezmatt13> What if I ran it at the slowest rate that it would run, with a buzzer as opposed to an LED. That could be interesting...
[15:05] <daveake> nothing stopping you
[15:05] <ibanezmatt13> I'll experiment with that.
[15:05] <Ugi> With a piezo element you should hear 4800 baud at least, I would think.
[15:06] <Uggy> daveake: yes ntx2 ? do I have to take the arduino code and change it ? or does someone published it somewhere ?
[15:06] <ibanezmatt13> I'll give it a go
[15:06] <daveake> It won't work. RTTY requires accurate timing and you can't do that on the Pi from a normal program
[15:07] <daveake> The moment the operating system switches to another process your carefully calculated timing will fly out of the window
[15:07] <Uggy> daveake: ok.. .. so how does it work ?
[15:07] <fsphil> possibly with DMA but at that point you're playing with dark magic :)
[15:08] <fsphil> DMA stands for Dark Magic Access
[15:08] <daveake> :)
[15:08] <fsphil> though some people think it means Direct Memory Access
[15:08] <ibanezmatt13> Will python not be good enough to run the real thing?
[15:08] <daveake> Go read my page on the wiki it tells you what you can do
[15:08] <daveake> It just doesn't tell you how :)
[15:09] <ibanezmatt13> I may have read it already, but I'll take another look
[15:09] <daveake> Implementation is left as an exercise for the reader
[15:09] <kokey> best way to do an SD card on an Arduino?
[15:09] <Uggy> daveake: Mmmm ok... let me see again..
[15:10] <GW8RAK> How slow will the serial port on the Pi go?
[15:10] <daveake> Dunno. I've used 50.
[15:11] <fsphil> did 50 work?
[15:11] <daveake> Not entirely :D
[15:11] <fsphil> hah
[15:11] <daveake> Seemed to get a bit confused
[15:11] <GW8RAK> That's the problem :)
[15:12] <daveake> This was my first Pi tracker where I swapped between rtty and nmea on the same port.
[15:12] <GW8RAK> Do you output 8 bit ASCII same as with Arduino etc?
[15:13] <daveake> So for rtty you send the sentence, close the port (which forces it to wait for the data to go), then open again set the baud rate listen for NMEA then when you've got a position close the port re-open at 50 baud back to RTTY
[15:13] <ibanezmatt13> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:raspberrypi is that
[15:13] <daveake> And that ^^ for the beginners listening is what you need to do
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[15:13] <SP9UOB> hi all
[15:13] <daveake> 8 bit 2 stop no parity yes
[15:13] <daveake> But you can set that in ioctl calls
[15:14] <SP9UOB> ladies and gentelmen please meet the SONDEKILLER ;-) http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pico/sondekiller.jpg
[15:14] <GW8RAK> Just trying to understand what comes out the serial port. Don't intend to fly it.
[15:14] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5274154 With the help of some people, I wrote this code. It's python but everybody seems to do everything in C... I guess that's because it's quicker
[15:14] <daveake> For SSDV you then have to remember to turn off output translation otherwise you find CR getting converted to CR LF which, in the middle of a biinary SSDV packet, isn't a good idea
[15:14] <UpuWork> not loading here SP9UOB
[15:14] <UpuWork> might be my end
[15:15] <daveake> nor here
[15:15] <mattbrejza> fine here
[15:15] <x-f> or here
[15:15] <daveake> UpuWork Today's UpuPost arrived earlier
[15:15] <SP9UOB> UpuWork: strange - have ipv6?
[15:15] <mattbrejza> i do
[15:15] <daveake> oh, loads now
[15:16] <SP9UOB> 11 meter fishing rod with blades at the end - works flawesly
[15:16] <mattbrejza> maybe i dont have ipv6
[15:17] <UpuWork> I do
[15:17] <SP9UOB> anyway both picos are recovered
[15:17] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 In tha code read_gps() closes the serial port if it sees a GGA message but not otherwise. You might want to think about that
[15:18] <UpuWork> not pinging
[15:18] <SP9UOB> maybe problem with v6 upstream, v4 works ok
[15:18] <griffonbot> Received email: SP9UOB "[UKHAS] Re: PICO Launch friday 17 or saturday 18 may Heading Norway :-)"
[15:18] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I'm gonna tweak it. Would Python work for the real thing or would it be too slow?
[15:19] <daveake> Should be fine
[15:19] <x-f> SP9UOB, there are two or three blades?
[15:19] <ibanezmatt13> that's good
[15:19] <SP9UOB> three blades soldered at one end - as You can see
[15:19] <daveake> Have you actually run it yet?
[15:19] <UpuWork> yeah its our end
[15:19] <UpuWork> we are having some IPV6 routing issues atm it seems
[15:20] <daveake> 'cos "/dev/tty/AMA0" is wrong
[15:21] <SpeedEvil> if /dev/tty/ama0 is wrong, I don't, want to be right.
[15:21] <daveake> haha
[15:21] <daveake> one slash too many
[15:22] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: I thought that the first part of that program disabled the other sentences so that it would only be a GGA sentence anyway. Is that wrong?
[15:23] <daveake> That's fine, but you're relying on that happening otherwise the port doesn't get closed then your program crashes and you lose the payload
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[15:24] <ibanezmatt13> so should i just open the port, read the info and close the port anyway?
[15:24] <daveake> yes
[15:25] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[15:25] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[15:25] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5274154 is that ok?
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[15:26] <daveake> No. You've not understood what I said. It's the read_gps() function that's wrong
[15:27] <daveake> You need to open the port, do something with it, then close it. Don't randomly leave it open
[15:28] <ibanezmatt13> erm, I'll have a look at that
[15:28] <ibanezmatt13> Which part is making it stay open?
[15:29] <daveake> read_gps
[15:29] <daveake> oh hold on you changed it
[15:29] <daveake> that's wrong too
[15:29] <ibanezmatt13> Oh dear...
[15:29] <daveake> You *must* test the sentence you *can't* assume it's going to be a GGA
[15:30] <ibanezmatt13> that's what i thought, so that part goes back in
[15:30] <UpuWork> glad you recovered anyway SP9UOB
[15:30] <daveake> I suggest you come back to this when you've got the GPS wired up. Start from a very simple program to listen to the GPS and display the data. Then work up
[15:30] <daveake> That way you understand the code you've written
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[15:31] <ibanezmatt13> Good idea. I'm going to save up and get it ASAP :)
[15:31] <daveake> cool
[15:32] <daveake> And it's /dev/ttyAMA0
[15:32] <ibanezmatt13> i see, thanks
[15:32] <daveake> If you open /dev/tty/AMA0 and don't check you've opened it OK (which you haven't) then it's all going to fail badly
[15:33] <ibanezmatt13> I'll modify that part. I think I understand
[15:34] Nick change: MoALTz_ -> MoALTz
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[15:36] <ibanezmatt13> Does anybody know of a coupon code for this http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=51 ?
[15:37] <Uggy> daveake: reading again your page and try to understand it.. so you mean you can not use usual gpio to send 1 and 0 in accurate way.. (timing) ? but we could use serial ?
[15:38] <UpuWork> hi ibanezmatt13
[15:38] <UpuWork> use "UKHAS"
[15:38] <UpuWork> cheers
[15:38] <daveake> yes
[15:38] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: Thank you very much! :) and Hi
[15:38] <UpuWork> hi and welcome
[15:39] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: I've not read all the scrollback but a couple of rules to bear in mind. Never trust what you're given is going to be what you expect and if there's a return value (indicating an error) or a seperate way to check for error conditions (e.g. the serial device can't be read) check it and handle it.
[15:40] <mfa298> When you don't do those things is when nasty things tend to happen.
[15:40] <Uggy> daveake: ok... do I don't yet understand :) if I send data on serial.. this will be converted high and low level.. and then that will "use" 2 frenquencies on the ntx2 ?
[15:40] <daveake> yes
[15:40] <daveake> RTTY *is* normal RS232 stylee serial
[15:40] <ibanezmatt13> I'll look into that. That's always been something I've always forgotten to do. I will make sure that I do that! :)
[15:40] <iain-G4SGX> Re: convo yesterday over NOV's etc..Just had an interesting reply from the RSGB chair of the spectrum forum. Seems like he's interested in getting involved. Will know more later hopefully.
[15:41] <craag> iain-G4SGX: :)
[15:41] <mfa298> iain-G4SGX: that's great news :D
[15:41] <daveake> So for example, when someone uses an Arduino Mega with its 4 serial ports, I do wonder why they're waggling the RTTY line in code instead of just using a serial port
[15:41] <Uggy> daveake: ok... .. and an accurate timing is not important in that case ?
[15:42] <daveake> It's absolutely important but the serial port hardware *does it for you* that's the whole point
[15:42] <ibanezmatt13> Where is the HAB supplies store located?
[15:42] <daveake> In Upu's shed
[15:42] <UpuWork> about 5 meters to my left
[15:42] <daveake> ^ lie
[15:42] <UpuWork> in the UK
[15:42] <ibanezmatt13> haha, where abouts?
[15:42] <UpuWork> Bingley
[15:42] <iain-G4SGX> "It is something on which we have a strategic interest, and the possibility exists in the forthcoming VHF Spectrum Review and later in the year the review of our licensing conditions, that we may be able to make some headway. "
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[15:43] <mfa298> 5 meters to UpuWork's left is a very accurate position.
[15:43] <Uggy> daveake: ok .. thx.. will go reading more about that.. then will come back later.. ;)
[15:43] <ibanezmatt13> west yorkshire. My Dad has a customer there that he visits regularly :)
[15:45] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: testing the return value of functions is a very good practice to get into. Even if you initally just print something out. It can make debugging a lot easier when things don't work as expected.
[15:45] <UpuWork> ibanezmatt13 he's welcome to collect
[15:45] <UpuWork> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/IMG_1015.JPG
[15:45] <ibanezmatt13> My Uncle says that to me always, and I always forget...
[15:46] <UpuWork> the bay I use for soldering which is technically "hab supplies" is at the far end of the bench
[15:46] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: I may ask him kindly to do that :)
[15:46] <ibanezmatt13> do you sell everything there?
[15:47] <UpuWork> how do you mean ?
[15:47] <fsphil> similar colour theme to our office
[15:47] <UpuWork> oh we don't have a walkin shop
[15:47] <UpuWork> so order what you want and pay for it
[15:47] <UpuWork> but select collect in shop
[15:47] <UpuWork> so you don't get postage
[15:47] <UpuWork> good old magnolia
[15:48] <ibanezmatt13> that's what i meant. so we would go to the address stated at the bottom of the web page?
[15:48] <UpuWork> http://www.nevis.co.uk/contact-us.html
[15:48] <UpuWork> but do the order first and let me confirm all parts are in
[15:48] <ibanezmatt13> thank you very much :)
[15:48] <UpuWork> welcome
[15:48] <ibanezmatt13> will do
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[15:49] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have to ask first but I'll let you know :)
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[15:49] <Uggy> UpuWork: regarding the changes on the resistors values last week , there is a last one reference to 20K resistor into the page (not a big deal but.. in case you want to change)
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[15:50] <UpuWork> checking
[15:50] <Uggy> > so this acts like another voltage divider in conjunction with the 47k/20k resistor
[15:51] <UpuWork> fixed thanks
[15:53] <Uggy> thx (may be 32k/47k ? )
[15:53] <Uggy> depending 5V/3.3V
[15:54] <Uggy> as the diagram show 47k
[15:55] <UpuWork> 47k is for 5V
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[15:55] <UpuWork> 32k is for 3.3v
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[15:55] <UpuWork> ok I'm off back later from home
[15:55] <Uggy> yes agree. the driagram does not show 32k.. (3.3v) so it could confuse people
[15:56] <Uggy> anyway 20k disapear ;)
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[16:08] <SP9UOB> lopw ewftpdkfgjghm,xcmjfbhcdbhn hvcfghl;
[16:08] <SP9UOB> sorry
[16:08] <SP9UOB> that was my 4 yrs old son
[16:09] <griffonbot> Received email: Radim Mutina "[UKHAS] Re: Slovakia - STS-3 PICO TEST Flight Announcement Saturday
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[16:16] Action: x-f lol'd at the second picture.
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[16:20] <SP9UOB> x-f: which picture ?
[16:21] <x-f> SP9UOB, https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0j1yhkzadiupku/IMG_7165.JPG
[16:21] <arko> mornin
[16:21] <x-f> Radim's 14 meter sondekiller/monster
[16:21] <x-f> morning, arko
[16:22] <SP9UOB> Radims :-)
[16:22] <SP9UOB> much improvisations :-)
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[16:24] <Babs> I bought this last week just in case I don't land near a JCB this time. More solid than it looks. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0013UOYAS/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
[16:25] <Babs> scalpel duct taped to the end should work well i reckon
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[16:26] <daveake> Did you see the cutdown that Upu and I made?
[16:28] <daveake> telescopic pole + tape + scissors + nylon cord http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6892064294/in/set-72157629717191599
[16:28] <x-f> fancy
[16:28] <daveake> it worked :)
[16:28] <arko> hahaha
[16:29] <arko> thats awesome
[16:29] <arko> jedi scissor staff
[16:29] <Babs> Nice.
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[16:30] <Babs> Nice, do you have a pantograph with a boxing glove on the end of it like Wile E Coyote just in case the scissors don't work?
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[16:30] <daveake> That's for a future flight to "release" Space Ted from the capsule in case he "does a Felix" and sulks
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[16:31] <mfa298> Babs: just have to hope your payload doesn't land >8m up the tree.
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[16:33] <Babs> mfa298 - need some of Willy Wonka's Fizzy Lifting Drink for those eventualities but unfortunately amazon doesn't stock it
[16:33] <mfa298> or hope there is something suitably climbable close enough.
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> contact some of the UFO people to get some sky rawlplugs
[16:33] <Babs> If you hear some loud burping at around 10am south of Bath on Saturday morning you'll know I found some
[16:34] <ibanezmatt13> Is it true that the Raspberry Pi Model A has a power rating of 2.5W?
[16:34] <daveake> No
[16:34] <Babs> from burping to power rating in one easy step
[16:35] <ibanezmatt13> They like to put erroneous
[16:35] <ibanezmatt13> information
[16:35] <daveake> Well if you remember from yesterday morning
[16:35] <daveake> [06:19] <ibanezmatt13> I have been searching for voltage regulators for my Raspberry Pi. For the Model A, I now understand that 115mA is required at 3.3V for power, so I found this...http://www.maplin.co.uk/150ma-ultra-low-dropout-positive-voltage-regulator-46323
[16:35] <ibanezmatt13> i have been looking at that also :)
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[16:36] <daveake> You'll need 200mA or so total
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[16:36] <daveake> Assuming it's just a tracker no webcams or 3G or anything
[16:36] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LTxJWsn1HQ
[16:37] <ibanezmatt13> there's a nice demo half way through
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[16:40] <ibanezmatt13> if the model a is powered with 3.3v, will it still be able to run the 5v rail, pin 2 i believe?
[16:40] <arko> Randomskk: http://pruvop.com/hads/
[16:40] <arko> your talk about blob detection reminded me of this
[16:41] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 Keep it simple run it from 5V
[16:41] <ibanezmatt13> will it draw a lower current if I do that
[16:42] <daveake> Current is the same
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[16:42] <ibanezmatt13> so it has a power of just over 0.5w?
[16:42] <daveake> You can save *power* by running the whole Pi from 3.3V but please keep it simple and run it from 5V
[16:42] <ibanezmatt13> will do
[16:43] <daveake> Simpler / More likely to work / won't void the warranty
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[16:44] <ibanezmatt13> for school, I have to know that power = voltage x current. But, if the current is the same, that means that the power is variable? This has nothing to do with the project but still?
[16:45] <ibanezmatt13> i thought that if you have say a 40w bulb, depending on what voltage you provide, the current will vary
[16:46] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: some of that is probably down to what the pi does on the board as some components need 5v (USB) and others are 3v3
[16:46] <mfa298> so the pi will drop the 5v down to 3v3 on the board but it might not use the most efficient method of doing that
[16:46] <ibanezmatt13> yeah that makes sense
[16:48] <mfa298> my understanding of a linear regulator is that the current in will be similar to the current out. The voltage drop is done by converting excess voltage into heat
[16:48] <daveake> exactly that
[16:48] <ibanezmatt13> I watched a really good video on how regulators work and that's what was said.
[16:49] Nick change: prawnalad -> prawnsalad
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[16:49] <ibanezmatt13> If i loose track of this payload, it's gonna be a damn shame. Recovering the payload will save me nearly £200 for a second flight.
[16:49] <mfa298> switching regulators are better in that respect as they do more complex stuff meaning they're more efficient (less heat) but they can be more electrically noisy.
[16:49] <daveake> It's not a bad idea to have a trusted tracker tag along on your flight
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[16:50] <daveake> You'll probably find someone local who's willing to come along and fly his tracker under yours
[16:50] <ibanezmatt13> Well if it was just me tracking it, I'd probably never see it again :\
[16:50] <daveake> Plenty of others will track it; my point is that with a second tracker you're protected against your tracker failing
[16:51] <ibanezmatt13> Is anybody based in NW England? :)
[16:51] <daveake> yes (not me)
[16:51] <mfa298> well as long as your tracker works well you'll get lots of people tracking it. If it doesn't work so well you'll get people trying to track it and complaining (or making a guess as to it's location if it's not sending telemetry)
[16:52] <mfa298> and getting involved in tracking other peoples flights will give you experience in tracking your own.
[16:52] <mfa298> plus over time you get to learn from other peoples mistakes.
[16:52] <ibanezmatt13> I would love to start tracking other flights
[16:54] <ibanezmatt13> I guess all I need to buy for the tracking side of things is the antenna and cable
[16:54] <Upu> define north west ?
[16:54] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: yep if you've already got the radio reciever (which I think you said you did yesterday)
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[16:55] <chrisstubbs> Ugi:I'm back now
[16:55] <chrisstubbs> Uggy == Ugi?
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[16:57] <ibanezmatt13_> Not sure what happened then...
[16:57] <natural> felt like a reduction in altitude
[16:57] <natural> lol
[16:57] <ibanezmatt13_> :)
[16:57] <arko> anyone here know of or done a hab launch with methane?
[16:57] <natural> hab?
[16:58] <arko> yeah
[16:58] <natural> are we flying habitats now? ;)
[16:58] <natural> sorr
[16:58] <natural> i dont knwo what hab stands for
[16:58] <Upu> high altitude balloon
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[16:58] <arko> ok, after messing with the habhub calc it seems to be a stupid amount of gas to get the necessary lift
[16:58] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: with the radio you've got you might find the antenna it came with will allow you to hear some flights if you're outside and they're not too far away
[16:59] <ibanezmatt13_> that's a great thought!
[16:59] <ibanezmatt13_> one thing i've never been able to understand is dl-fldigi
[17:00] <ibanezmatt13_> setting that up for my reciever does not look easy
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[17:01] <ibanezmatt13_> Does dl-fldigi work for anything?
[17:01] <Ugi> Hi chrisstubbs - sorry, I stepped away for a minute (I'm also at work).
[17:01] <mfa298> you should be able to just plug the audio out from the radio into a line in (or potentially mic-in) on your PC
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[17:02] <Ugi> PS I'm not Uggy, we just happen to have similar names
[17:02] <ibanezmatt13_> I'll do that, but setting up dl-fldigi looks complex
[17:02] <mfa298> dl-fldigi then just decodes the rtty tones at the audio level.
[17:02] <mfa298> the guide on the wiki should help with setting it up.
[17:02] <ibanezmatt13_> I'll take a look at that
[17:03] <mfa298> but that's where it's good helping to track other peoples flights as you get to learn how dl-fldigi works before you're relying on it for your own payload
[17:04] <Ugi> chrisstubbs: I was just wondering, since your balloon was showing on the tracker, whether you were due to launch one soon.
[17:04] <ibanezmatt13_> how will I know when to test out my reciever? Do the launch dates come up on the website
[17:04] <Ugi> I live only a few miles from your tracking point last night (in Shenfield)
[17:05] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13_: I think there's a short clip of rtty from an old payload on the wiki as well which you can feed into dl-fldigi to test. It will also give you an idea of what rtty sounds like.
[17:05] <mfa298> Launches are generally announced on the mailing list
[17:06] <mfa298> http://groups.google.com/group/ukhas
[17:06] <mfa298> there's also an ical feed
[17:06] <ibanezmatt13_> thanks, I'll keep an eye on that. And I think I've found the dl-fldigi test on the wiki
[17:06] <mfa298> http://habitat.habhub.org/calendar/
[17:07] <chrisstubbs> Ugi yeah ive been working flat out all day! If you want to check out some details of my last two flights: http://chris-stubbs.co.uk/wp/?page_id=266
[17:07] <chrisstubbs> Yes probably pi in the next 1-2 months
[17:07] <chrisstubbs> maybe a pico before that
[17:07] <chrisstubbs> brb dinner :()
[17:07] <chrisstubbs> :)
[17:08] <marcosscriven> had anyone here used a 3D printer to print custom bits for high altitude projects?
[17:08] <marcosscriven> had = has
[17:09] <Ugi> Cool. I'll be offline for a while but back tomorrow if not B4.
[17:10] <Babs> A little http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/sets/72157632733154985/
[17:10] <Babs> marcosscriven - well, in fact a lot
[17:11] <marcosscriven> Babs: i was about to say nice site, then realised it was the new Flikr :)
[17:11] <marcosscriven> very cool project - do you share the STLs at all?
[17:11] <Babs> First time I've booted it up - not sure whether i like it or not
[17:12] <Babs> Yes, you can have them all. Only thing is that none of it has been tested up there yet
[17:12] <Babs> although it will have by this Saturday all being well
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[17:16] <marcosscriven> Babs: I was looking for cool things to add here: http://www.fabfabbers.com/models/
[17:19] <Babs> What is the purpose of the site? A repositry, commericial or to store and display? Is it your site?
[17:19] <Babs> *commercial
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[17:23] <nigelvh_> ping Upu
[17:23] <Upu> pong nigelvh
[17:23] <nigelvh_> BTW, I stuck my GPS in the window, and figured out the TIMEPULSE port does stay low until a lock, then will blink high for 100ms @1hz when it has a lock.
[17:24] <nigelvh_> Now you know.
[17:26] <Upu> thanks :)
[17:26] <Upu> I brought a board home to test it for you
[17:27] <Upu> but don't need too now :)
[17:28] <nigelvh_> Thanks for the effort though!
[17:29] <nigelvh_> Just was curious to make sure it was working as expected and I didn't have a solder jump or something.
[17:30] <marcosscriven> Babs: it's a site for sharing 3D models
[17:32] <Upu> glad its working as expected
[17:32] <Upu> you can amend the frequency of output I think
[17:32] <nigelvh_> Yeah, I believe the data sheet mentioned something like that.
[17:33] <nigelvh_> Doesn't matter to me all too much, just an indicator that it works.
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[17:40] <nigelvh_> Suppose I could save a little power by spreading the blinks out.
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[17:42] <Babs> marcosscriven - ahh, ok. I will see whether it all works and if it does maybe pop the files on there. I'm all self taught so to the professionals on there it probably all looks a bit amateurish i would imagine.
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[18:01] <marcosscriven> Babs: looks good to me
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[18:14] <chrisstubbs> Babs, nice little motor
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[18:30] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[18:31] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[18:32] <cm13g09> mfa298: to PM
[18:52] <Babs> chrisstubbs - from pololu - they do a bunch of mini ones of all different sizes and gears
[18:52] <chrisstubbs> What does it do?
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[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[18:56] <Babs> they are connected into a pololu robot wheel that I have attempted to convert into a gyro with the addition of some motorcycle wheelbalancing weights
[18:57] <Babs> I would send you a link but flickr is overloaded thanks to yahoo updating it with the professionalism of a British builder
[18:57] <Babs> the gyros then spin and then attempt to limit the payloads propensity to rock around
[18:58] <Babs> in the same way that if you hold the axle of a bicycle wheel and spin it it tries to stay on the same axis
[18:58] <chrisstubbs> Interesting!
[18:59] <Babs> There are some videos on there of it without the stabilising wheels, with the stabilising wheels but no motors spinning and with the stabilising wheels and the motors spun up to show the comparison
[19:00] <Babs> again, i would post the link but.....
[19:00] <Babs> it works in my loft, just remains to see whether it works in the real world
[19:00] <number10> when is the launch planned Babs
[19:02] <Babs> This saturday number10, assuming the wind is in the right direction, at 0700
[19:02] <Babs> and if not, same time on Sunday
[19:02] <Babs> and if not then same time on Monday
[19:02] <number10> great - must have missed the email - I'll recheck
[19:03] <chrisstubbs> Babs have you submitted your flight doc yet?
[19:04] <daveake> Ah thanks for reminding me chrisstubbs :)
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[19:04] <chrisstubbs> lol
[19:05] <chrisstubbs> I have my uses
[19:05] <Babs> yes, has not been received chrisstubbs?
[19:07] <chrisstubbs> Its not on my calendar feed yet
[19:07] <chrisstubbs> Your not falcon are you?
[19:08] <chrisstubbs> only falcon on dl-fldigi too
[19:08] <Babs> No, BABSHAB. I only did it this afternoon so I guess it might be that it is just waiting to be approved by the team on here
[19:08] <chrisstubbs> Ah yes probably
[19:09] <chrisstubbs> have you posted your flight doc ID in #habhub?
[19:09] <Babs> No, not sure what it is
[19:10] <Babs> its my second launch but only the first one with the group on here
[19:11] <chrisstubbs> Ah ok
[19:11] <chrisstubbs> when you submitted your flight doc it would have given you an ID
[19:11] <chrisstubbs> do /join #habhub in your IRC client then ask for it to be approved by the nice people there
[19:12] <Babs> done
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[19:18] <chrisstubbs> :)
[19:18] <chrisstubbs> Hmmm think my header looks a little tacky http://chris-stubbs.co.uk/wp/?page_id=266
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[19:27] <Laurenceb_> health and safety executive?
[19:27] <chrisstubbs> Laurenceb ?
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[19:31] <Laurenceb_> HSE on the box
[19:32] <chrisstubbs> NSE?
[19:32] <Laurenceb_> oh
[19:32] <chrisstubbs> Or have I missed another type :P
[19:32] <Babs> thanks chrisstubbs, randomskk, all working
[19:33] <chrisstubbs> *typo, ironic
[19:35] <chrisstubbs> beats http://chris-stubbs.co.uk/~dncwd/nse/ :P
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[19:35] <chrisstubbs> Think i may have overshot on the Costs page
[19:37] <chrisstubbs> The lift calcualtor i wrote is also horribly wrong
[19:37] <Babs> does anyone use hand warmers nowadays?
[19:37] <arko> be a man
[19:38] <arko> no handwarmer challege
[19:38] <nigelvh_> Also most hand warmers require abundant oxygen to work.
[19:38] <chrisstubbs> I didnt bother on the last flight
[19:38] <chrisstubbs> ptobably wont bother again
[19:38] <chrisstubbs> ARGH typos
[19:38] <nigelvh_> Don't always work good at altitude.
[19:41] <Babs> i guess the gel ones don't need oxygen, but mine remained toasty without them last year
[19:43] <mfa298> The gel ones you recharge by heating them in water shouldn't need oxegen but they don't last that long so I'm not sure they'de help much)
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[19:44] <Babs> i think its just as easy to use a bunch of polystyrene and a resistor.
[19:45] <Babs> you can never have too much polystyrene http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8622543326/in/set-72157632733154985
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[19:46] <mfa298> from what others have said plenty of insulation and then your payload will heat itself
[19:47] <SpeedEvil> if you've got a camera
[19:48] <SpeedEvil> otherwise not so much
[19:48] <chrisstubbs> Babs, I keep thinking that thing is made of Knex
[19:49] <arko> http://hackaday.com/2013/05/21/33-node-beowulf-cluster-built-with-raspberry-pi/
[19:52] <Babs> I'm not sure the makers of Knex would be flattered by the amount of glue it took to put it together
[19:52] <anerDev> hi guys !
[19:52] <chrisstubbs> Lol
[19:52] <chrisstubbs> evening anerDev
[19:52] <anerDev> =D
[19:53] <Upu> whats the total payload weight Babs ?
[19:53] <anerDev> I contact Steve, from RandomEng., he say that "will be back in stock in about 2 to 3 weeks. " the Hwoyee 1200
[19:53] <anerDev> but for now we can buy the Pawan 1200 at the same price !
[19:54] <Upu> from Steve ?
[19:54] <anerDev> yes
[19:54] <Upu> oh cool
[19:54] <anerDev> =d
[19:54] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[19:54] <anerDev> I will buy the Pawan 1200 and the Spherachute Balloon Parachute - 36in
[19:55] <anerDev> my pyaload weight is +- 1 Kg
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[19:55] <Upu> hi Lunar
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[19:59] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Epic_Meal_Time_episodes
[19:59] <Laurenceb_> seriously...
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[20:22] <steve______> hiya
[20:23] <Upu> evening
[20:23] <steve______> so I have a Russian translation of the instructions for tracking from the wiki
[20:24] <steve______> how do I go about getting it online?
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[20:24] <Upu> you have something transmitting ?
[20:24] <steve______> nope - there was a request a couple of weeks back for a Russian translation for this page http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[20:25] <Upu> ah
[20:25] <Upu> gotcha
[20:25] <Upu> ok do you have an account on the Wiki ?
[20:25] <steve______> nope
[20:25] <Upu> go make an account and tell me what the name is
[20:25] <Upu> and I'll give you posting privs
[20:26] <steve______> steve
[20:26] <steve______> just done
[20:27] <Upu> ok you should be able to edit stuff now
[20:27] <steve______> not sure about the cyrillic letter
[20:27] <steve______> s
[20:27] <steve______> I can try copy and paste
[20:27] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide:russian
[20:27] <Upu> edit that
[20:28] <Upu> thanks for doing it
[20:28] <Uggy> chrisstubbs: No ... Uggy != Ugi
[20:29] <chrisstubbs> Aha just checking
[20:30] <steve______> It seems to be ok
[20:30] <steve______> obviously I can't speak russian
[20:30] <steve______> so I am not 100% sure of the content but I trust the guy
[20:33] <anerDev> good night guys ! =D
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[20:37] <cuddykid> 100 cable ties for 24p delivered! From farnell too so can't be too bad - http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-power/100x2-5mm-blk-100pk/cable-tie-100x2-5mm-blk-100pk/dp/CBBR669796
[20:37] <mfa298> thats notbad
[20:38] <cuddykid> might be a little small for tying off balloon though at 10cm in length
[20:38] <mfa298> although at the rate some places get through cable ties they need to be cheap
[20:38] <chrisstubbs> Is there still a minimum order total to pay by card at CPC/farnell?
[20:40] <cuddykid> don't think so - I'll find out now, going to get some on order
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[20:43] <cuddykid> ergh, hate having to 'register'
[20:43] <cuddykid> sure I've bought from farnell before too but not recognising me
[20:47] <cuddykid> no minimum order chrisstubbs :)
[20:47] <chrisstubbs> whoop :D
[20:48] <cuddykid> have 500 on their way for just £1! and 20p to the thieving government!
[20:48] <chrisstubbs> haha
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[20:48] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, do you access couchdb using GET and POST?
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[20:50] <cuddykid> chrisstubbs: no posting, just get
[20:51] <Babs> Is there a preferred white balance setting for up in the stratosphere? Or just auto and hope for the best?
[20:51] <cuddykid> and the odd PUT for uploading location data
[20:51] <lz1dev> you can POST docs
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[20:54] <Babs> Cuddykid - you programmed the hab tracker app right?
[20:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> w/b will be a Bright Sunlight setting once above the clouds!
[20:54] <Upu> Babs stick it on landscape and hope for the best
[20:54] <cuddykid> Babs: yeah
[20:54] <cuddykid> iOS one
[20:55] <Babs> how do i enter my call sign on it? i get a prompt when i try to turn on tracking but can't see where to do it
[20:55] <Babs> Upu - not format but white balance
[20:55] <Upu> I'd go auto
[20:55] <cuddykid> Babs: back to the map screen and top right corner
[20:55] <Babs> thats what i figure. auto and a photo every 6 seconds. 1 in 1500 has to work at least
[20:56] <cuddykid> there's a cog wheel - it opens up settings menu
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[20:56] <Willdude123> Oh noes,
[20:56] <Babs> got it - thanks cuddykid - it was hiding in the map
[20:56] <Willdude123> My parents are trying to understand Bitcoin.
[20:56] <cuddykid> I'm trying to understand Bitcoin lol
[20:57] <Willdude123> Started second physics course today.
[20:57] <Babs> and if that is all done and i have show my location set to on, it just uploads to spacenear automatically
[20:57] <cuddykid> Babs: should do yep
[20:57] <Willdude123> The only true source of info on bitcoin is the IRC chan.
[20:57] <Upu> tell them its used for buying illegal goods and services like drugs and assassination
[20:57] <Upu> lets see how long you're mining then
[20:57] <Willdude123> No thanks.
[20:57] <Willdude123> :-)
[20:57] <cuddykid> Babs: you can exit the app too and it should be still uploading data - until you flick the switch to turn it off
[20:58] <Willdude123> I'm kinda pleased I didn't tell them I bought the BTC, otherwise, I wouldn't have got those shares so cheap.
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[21:00] <cuddykid> bitcoin and Tor are all you need to run your successful dodgy business :)
[21:01] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[21:02] <Upu> tbh WILLdude if you're going to waste electricity you might as well do something constructive with it
[21:02] <Willdude123> I'm not mining.
[21:02] <Willdude123> That's a waste of power.
[21:02] <Babs> Perfect, thanks Adam - nice app
[21:03] <Willdude123> https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=ASICM
[21:04] <Willdude123> Well, unless you have ASICs
[21:04] <Upu> looks so above board
[21:04] <Upu> I'm very dubious about it all
[21:05] <cuddykid> glad you like it Babs :)
[21:06] <chrisstubbs> Bitcoin - Its money, but nobody owns it. and its not worth anything. but it is.
[21:06] <chrisstubbs> imagine it on dragons den
[21:07] <cuddykid> yeah, I've been trying to get my head around how it's going to hold it's value etc (having been brainwashed into thinking that way through uni econ course)
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[21:08] <Willdude123> Why would it have no value Chris?
[21:12] <Upu> because of Myspace
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[21:12] <Babs> Gold is the funniest one in terms of retention of value
[21:13] <Willdude123> Anyway, this physics course I'm taking looks good.
[21:13] <Babs> Warren Bufffett quote: Today the world's gold stock is about 170,000 metric tons. If all of this gold were melded together, it would form a cube of about 68 feet per side. (Picture it fitting comfortably within a baseball infield.) At $1,750 per ounce -- gold's price as I write this -- its value would be about $9.6 trillion. Call this cube pile A. Let's now create a pile B costing an equal amount. For that, we could buy all U.S. cr
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[21:14] <Babs> all U.S. cropland (400 million acres with output of about $200 billion annually), plus 16 Exxon Mobils (the world's most profitable company, one earning more than $40 billion annually). After these purchases, we would have about $1 trillion left over for walking-around money (no sense feeling strapped after this buying binge). Can you imagine an investor with $9.6 trillion selecting pile A over pile B?
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> C C C CC
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> combo breakkker
[21:14] <Upu> too slow ?
[21:15] Action: Laurenceb_ heads back to /b/
[21:15] <Upu> probably best :)
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[21:16] <Willdude123> It's got motion analysis stuff too.
[21:17] <Willdude123> And computer models.
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[21:24] <MikeH_> Anyone who knows the habhub backend here?
[21:25] <Randomskk> uh huh
[21:25] <cuddykid> MikeH_: #habhub
[21:25] <cuddykid> or unless you're talking about the app HABHUB?
[21:26] <Randomskk> I assume "backend" means not the app :P
[21:26] <cuddykid> so do I
[21:26] <cuddykid> never know though!
[21:26] <lz1dev> what are you suggesting?
[21:26] <lz1dev> implying perhaps
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[21:27] <MikeH_> The sentence wizard and docs don't seem agree on the format lat and long support + & - but I can't get 52.997200, -2.191910 to work
[21:28] <lz1dev> you might want to be more specific
[21:29] <Randomskk> MikeH_: what's not working?
[21:30] <MikeH_> I tried to use the payload generator wizard to make a new payload
[21:31] <MikeH_> entered a string that was accepted, then went on to select fields, latitude works, longtitude only accepts string or constant for this 52.997200, -2.191910
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[21:32] <SpeedEvil> it may be wanting dd.mm
[21:32] <Randomskk> MikeH_: try taking out the space, just for the wizard
[21:32] <Randomskk> oh but that will break the checksum, ugh
[21:32] <Randomskk> try taking out the space entirely
[21:32] <Randomskk> from your payload
[21:33] <MikeH_> space works for latitude?
[21:33] <Randomskk> might be a combination of the - and the space, not sure
[21:33] <Randomskk> it should be okay on the backend, so it's just the automatic document generator not working, but
[21:33] <Randomskk> it's stupid to transmit a space anyway
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[21:42] <Arithmetic> hmm i like this though, at a packing level: 'try taking out the space entirely .. from your payload' :)
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[21:53] <MikeH_> spaces taken out
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[21:55] <Arithmetic> yup. some ibm crew in zurich or somehwere once got a nobel prize for packing-efficiency work :)
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=31119.15
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> epic rage thread
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[21:56] <Arithmetic> someone had a, Can spaceX save nasa headline but i didn't look at the article in mainsCream
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[22:06] <Laurenceb_> hmm someone has applied modern data to Sciama and error is <8%
[22:06] <Laurenceb_> thats... intriguing
[22:07] <Laurenceb_> but id still bet on crackpot
[22:07] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] Re: BABSHAB launch - Great Tew, Saturday 25th May-Monday 27th
[22:08] <Arithmetic> always bet on the crackpots if even vaguely astro ;)
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[22:17] <Laurenceb_> seems a pretty odd coincidence that vector-tensor theory would fall within the error band
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[00:00] --- Wed May 22 2013