highaltitude.log.20130520

[00:00] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/pmevXni.jpg
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[02:32] <arko> anyone know a good methods to testing finite state machines?
[02:32] <arko> this test fixture is getting ugly and uneligant
[02:37] <nigelvh> Magic
[02:37] <nigelvh> Also, depending on *what* you're trying to test, high velocity projectiles are good ones too.
[02:38] <arko> i have a finite state machine written in verilog
[02:38] <arko> essentially i need to prove it expermentally that it's finite
[02:38] <nigelvh> That doesn't explicitly rule out high velocity projectile testing.
[02:38] <arko> i can show on paper with k-maps and blah blah
[02:38] <arko> i could shoot my laptop but i dont think that will help
[02:39] <nigelvh> Depends on your definition of "help"
[02:40] <arko> true
[03:11] <heathkid> anyone have experience launching a keychain HD video camera?
[03:11] <Randomskk> keep them away from GPSs
[03:12] <heathkid> the one I have needs replaced... the one I'm looking at only has a 250mAh Li-Poly (only good for 60 minutes of recording so that'll have to go).
[03:12] <heathkid> how far away and why?
[03:12] <Randomskk> a lot of them spit out a good deal of noise
[03:12] <heathkid> I can shield it with some lightweight mu-metal
[03:13] <Randomskk> if you like
[03:17] <heathkid> I'm looking at the new "808 #18" if you're familier with it
[03:18] <Randomskk> hmm no don't think so. it's been a year since I looked into the variants
[03:18] <heathkid> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110974157375
[03:18] <heathkid> should be the same guts inside as this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/808HD-11-HD-DV-KeyChain-Lens-Camera-Cam-H-264-720P-New-/160595839562
[03:19] <heathkid> only with AVI
[03:19] <heathkid> I've still got a few pins left on the arduino...
[03:20] <heathkid> maybe have the tracker control the camera
[03:20] <heathkid> but should I ditch the onboard battery for a few Energizer Ulitmate Lithium's instead?
[03:21] <heathkid> one hour of recording isn't going to be enough
[03:21] <heathkid> looks like it's about 4GB/hour of recording 720P
[03:22] <heathkid> I'd like 4 hours of recording or more
[03:23] <heathkid> though even if I swap out the battery to some AA's... I should still be within my payload weight budget to get a 102 minute to burst w/ my Kaymont 600.
[03:23] <heathkid> make sense?
[03:23] <heathkid> or is there a better camera anyone knows about that is tiny? (not the gopro...) :)
[03:25] <Randomskk> seems reasonable
[04:35] <nigelvh> Upu on?
[04:36] <nigelvh> Or someone who's got a uBlox in front of them?
[04:41] <Darkside> what about them
[04:42] <nigelvh> Are the RXD and TXD pins labelled as they should be connected, or as their function. IE, should RXD be connected to the uC's TXD, or should they be connected straight through?
[04:42] <Darkside> uhh
[04:42] <Darkside> TXD to RXD
[04:43] <nigelvh> So they're labelled by function. Ok.
[04:43] <nigelvh> That's one thing I'm not fond of with Serial.
[04:46] <Randomskk> they're pretty much always labelled by function on everything
[04:46] <Randomskk> in fact I don't think I've seen anything that's done otherwise
[04:46] <Randomskk> you always want to connect a TX pin to an RX pin
[04:46] <Randomskk> what does get confusing is cross-board connectors admittedly
[04:46] <nigelvh> I've seen it the other way.
[04:46] <Randomskk> on ICs/devices?
[04:47] <nigelvh> On some cheap GPS modules.
[04:47] <Randomskk> :/
[04:47] <nigelvh> So now I always try to check.
[04:47] <Randomskk> dodgy
[04:47] <Randomskk> yea it is always worth checking
[04:47] <nigelvh> How's the morning treating you?
[04:48] <Randomskk> this dawn is a 4/10, grey and cold
[04:48] <Randomskk> sky is uniformly overcast
[04:48] <Randomskk> and I've just thought up a new method for my research that might actually work, unlike the previous one
[04:49] <Randomskk> but is hard and I'm not sure on all the details and I have a day or two at best to get it working
[04:49] <nigelvh> Hmm
[04:49] <nigelvh> That sounds less than fun.
[04:49] <Randomskk> quite
[04:49] <Randomskk> but I'm fairly convinced my current technique won't work
[04:49] <Randomskk> however there's a separate thing I need to get done too, before I write the whole thing up
[04:49] <Randomskk> so I'm not sure whether to go ahead with the other stuff and say "well it's a shame it didn't work"
[04:49] <Randomskk> or try this new thing and hope it might work better
[04:49] <nigelvh> Well, sometimes life does that to you.
[04:50] <nigelvh> Life's a jerk like that.
[04:50] <Randomskk> it sure is
[04:50] <Randomskk> though this is mostly my fault really
[04:50] <Randomskk> for not working on it all year
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[04:50] <Randomskk> made my bed and now very much (not) sleeping in it
[04:51] <nigelvh> I've been there a time or two.
[04:51] <Randomskk> it's not exactly new territory for me either
[04:51] <Randomskk> but a year long masters project is by far the most important and largest of all the occasions I've found myself in this position
[04:52] <nigelvh> In one instance I was doing said work in a hotel room at 1AM the night before, and my laptop hard died. Had to grab another laptop and install my entire environment before I could finish. Not fun.
[04:52] <Randomskk> ouch
[04:52] <nigelvh> I didn't sleep that night.
[04:52] <Randomskk> I bet
[04:52] <Randomskk> my sleep pattern has totally degraded now
[04:52] <Randomskk> I'm not sure what's going on but I've apparently started polyphasic sleep by accident
[04:53] <Randomskk> sleeping roughly 12-4, both sides of the clock
[04:53] <nigelvh> What's even better is I did all that work the night before, and a failure with a commercial bit of equipment scrubbed the launch, so my work didn't matter anyway.
[04:53] <Randomskk> D:
[04:53] <Randomskk> isn't that always the way
[04:53] <nigelvh> Yeah...
[04:55] <heathkid> hello everyone
[04:55] <nigelvh> Evening
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[05:00] <heathkid> well... I'm *trying* to get a balloon flying... :)
[05:00] <heathkid> seems my paraschute was too big (ordered a few spherachutes of various sizes)
[05:00] <heathkid> with HAB attachment
[05:00] <nigelvh> Sounds reasonable
[05:01] <heathkid> figured out the keychain video camera I have sucks...
[05:01] <heathkid> ordered a new one... BUT... it has a 250mAh li-poly... only good for 1 hour of recording
[05:01] <nigelvh> Keychain cameras aren't known for being all that great.
[05:02] <heathkid> ordered a couple 32GB Class-10 micro SDHC cards
[05:02] <heathkid> I've heard they are "noisy"?
[05:02] <heathkid> this does 720P 30fps and the example videos I've seen are VERY nice
[05:03] <nigelvh> Yes, they seem to have a tendency to jam GPSs
[05:03] <heathkid> I've got some lightweight mu-metal for shielding
[05:03] <heathkid> spare SEM parts/stuff...
[05:03] <nigelvh> Ok. just make sure to test well.
[05:04] <heathkid> oh, I'll probably test my payload better than anyone here ever has... :)
[05:04] <heathkid> high altitude chamber to >100k ft.
[05:04] <heathkid> sub-zero envioronmental chamber to -55C (lowest I can go)
[05:04] <Randomskk> actual launches are also a very effective test mechanism ;)
[05:04] <heathkid> true
[05:05] <heathkid> and if the calculations are right... I'm at 101 minutes to burst using a Kaymont 600 w/ a 300g payload
[05:05] <heathkid> might have to add some weight as ballast but if not.. faster ascent than 5.1m/s
[05:06] <heathkid> tracker works on aprs.fi and tested today using one AA Energizer Ultimate Lithium on spacenear.us and got 13.5 hours
[05:06] <heathkid> all data looked great
[05:06] <heathkid> well, yesterday now
[05:07] <heathkid> I'm ready for a launch.. just need to receive some parts and get some gas! :P
[05:08] <heathkid> several parts shipping from HK so in the mean time I'll be assembling the payload enclosure
[05:08] <heathkid> and trying to figure out the camera mount
[05:09] <heathkid> didn't think I needed a radar reflector but will add one to stabalize the payload so it doesn't rotate around
[05:09] <heathkid> just some balsa wood and mylar as a stabalizer
[05:10] <heathkid> once I get the camera I need to disassemble it and wire up a new battery holder as the 250mAh Li-Po isn't going to cut it
[05:11] <heathkid> no way it'll survive the cold temps and one hour of recording isn't enough
[05:13] <heathkid> it'd die half way up
[05:14] <heathkid> I know not to make the insulated inclosure air tight (it'll explode)...
[05:14] <heathkid> just not sure how to assemble it just yet
[05:14] <heathkid> trial and lots of errors?
[05:15] <heathkid> for the enclosure?
[05:15] <nigelvh> Just grab some insulation board and cut out some walls and duct tape them together.
[05:16] <heathkid> what's a good size?
[05:16] <heathkid> my payload is *tiny*
[05:16] <nigelvh> Whatever size your stuff fits in.
[05:17] <heathkid> my entire payload would fit in the size of a pack of cigarettes
[05:18] <nigelvh> Then make it that size.
[05:18] <heathkid> well, maybe a bit thicker if I change over to AA lithiums for the camera
[05:19] <heathkid> small = harder to locate
[05:19] <heathkid> have to look for the paraschute?
[05:19] <nigelvh> Make it pink.
[05:19] <heathkid> :) was going to use the pink board at home depot
[05:20] <nigelvh> There you go.
[05:20] <heathkid> and it does still tranmit for almost an hour (just a short burst with no data)... once the battery gets low enough
[05:21] <heathkid> it reboots and has to get a new GPS fix
[05:21] <heathkid> with the uBlox-6 that only takes a few seconds
[05:21] <heathkid> I'll probably add a supercap to the uBlox
[05:22] <heathkid> the HX-1 draws too much current
[05:22] <heathkid> so after 13+ hours on one AA.... it's done
[05:22] <heathkid> but I get 30+ hours on 2AA's
[05:23] <heathkid> add three for the camera...
[05:23] <heathkid> not that much more weight
[05:23] <Randomskk> maybe the camera would run off the two main AAs as well
[05:23] <Randomskk> might cut it
[05:23] <heathkid> maybe
[05:23] <Randomskk> or could the camera run off the output of the step up psu?
[05:24] <heathkid> hmmm
[05:24] <Randomskk> that might just make your noise problems worse though
[05:24] <Randomskk> perhaps best to keep the camera totally separate
[05:24] <heathkid> I'm stepping up to 5V which I could run into the camera charging circuit
[05:24] <heathkid> but not on one AA. :)
[05:24] <heathkid> 3 maybe
[05:25] <heathkid> darn HX-1 draws a lot of current
[05:25] <heathkid> I need a cheap/easy way to do RTTY too
[05:25] <heathkid> all this *before* I get into the 70cm video downlink... :)
[05:26] <heathkid> but that's a ways off
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[05:35] <heathkid> looking at this one: http://www.hamtv.com/videolynx.html#VM-70X
[05:35] <heathkid> Randomskk: you're in the USA?
[05:39] <Randomskk> UK
[05:39] <heathkid> ah
[05:41] <Randomskk> (I'm also a student with a deadline, hence being awake at all sorts of hours)
[05:42] <heathkid> I'm not a student but everyone who seems helpful is WAYout of my time zone. :)
[05:42] <Randomskk> indeed
[05:42] <Randomskk> you're here at all the wrong times
[05:42] <heathkid> always
[05:42] <heathkid> stupid EST
[05:43] <arko> wow new doctor who
[05:43] <arko> ah crap, wrong channel
[05:43] <Randomskk> arko: ikr!
[05:43] <arko> but still
[05:43] <Randomskk> haha
[05:43] <arko> my reaction: #*(@#&$*#@&%)@#(*$)
[05:43] <Randomskk> hehe
[05:43] <arko> not spoiling but yeah
[05:43] <heathkid> it's sorta related...
[05:43] <arko> timezones and all :P
[05:44] <heathkid> if I could go back in time I'd never have started down this path... it's sort of an addiction
[05:44] <heathkid> could be worse though
[05:45] <heathkid> I've got a few Rb standards... fly one... other on the ground... does altitude make a difference or just speed?
[05:45] <heathkid> yes, I already know the answer to that...
[05:45] <Randomskk> altitude makes a difference, but Rb standards are nothing like accurate enough to notice
[05:45] <heathkid> but it'd still be fun to fly one! :P
[05:45] <Randomskk> altitude is the same as speed
[05:45] <Randomskk> since the earth is rotating
[05:45] <Randomskk> v=rw
[05:46] <heathkid> didn't think about it that way
[05:46] <heathkid> hmmm
[05:46] <Randomskk> which is why clocks upstairs go slower
[05:46] <Randomskk> not that you'd notice
[05:46] <heathkid> so I need to fly 3 Rb standards and a few GPSDO's...
[05:46] <heathkid> no problem
[05:46] <heathkid> need a bigger balloon
[05:46] <heathkid> :)
[05:46] <Randomskk> think you want a cs standard to even hope to notice
[05:47] <Randomskk> my relativity is rusty though, idk
[05:47] <heathkid> WAY to heavy for a balloon launch
[05:47] <heathkid> and
[05:47] <Randomskk> I know it
[05:47] Action: heathkid can't afford a cs standard....
[05:47] <heathkid> even a broken one
[05:48] <heathkid> so I've got 3 Rb standards and 3 GPSDO's....
[05:48] <heathkid> ladyheather doesn't like me
[05:48] <Randomskk> :P
[05:48] <heathkid> because I've never hooked it all up
[05:48] <heathkid> yeah... the Thunderbolts
[05:48] <heathkid> wish I was back to only having ONE clock!
[05:49] <heathkid> sort of a time/frequency joke in there somewhere...
[05:50] <heathkid> timenuts isn't an addiction... it's a sickness!
[05:51] <heathkid> and I've gone down that path...
[05:52] <heathkid> did you know 1mm of coax affects timing?
[05:52] <heathkid> better measure it correctly
[05:52] <heathkid> for your GPS antennas!
[05:52] <heathkid> :P
[05:52] <Randomskk> indeed
[05:52] <Randomskk> though not by as much as the time spent worrying about it :P
[05:53] <heathkid> actually I think I remember one guy was having timing issues and it was like 0.001mm off in his antenna coax length
[05:53] <heathkid> do any snips even get that accurate?
[05:53] <heathkid> dang
[05:54] <heathkid> it's like... oh, I found the problem... my antenna feedline was .000001nm too long
[05:54] <heathkid> they are that serious
[05:54] <heathkid> I can't afford to be that serious
[05:55] <heathkid> besides... it's all *RELATIVE*! lol :P
[05:55] <heathkid> sorry
[05:55] <Randomskk> haha great :P
[05:55] <heathkid> couldn't help myself...
[05:57] <heathkid> I'm off to bed....
[05:58] <heathkid> good night
[05:58] <heathkid> or early morning in your case...
[05:58] <heathkid> nite
[05:58] <Randomskk> nn
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[06:18] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning :)
[06:18] <arko> MORNING
[06:19] <ibanezmatt13> I have been searching for voltage regulators for my Raspberry Pi. For the Model A, I now understand that 115mA is required at 3.3V for power, so I found this...http://www.maplin.co.uk/150ma-ultra-low-dropout-positive-voltage-regulator-46323
[06:19] <ibanezmatt13> It's an ultra low drop out 3 pin regulator
[06:19] <Darkside> you'll need a lot more than 115ma
[06:19] <Darkside> especially if you plan on connecting anything else
[06:20] <ibanezmatt13> I don't plan on connecting anything else, but on Daveake's website, he states that 115mA is plenty.
[06:20] <Darkside> hrm
[06:20] <Darkside> maybe on the 3.3v line
[06:20] <Darkside> it neeeds 5v too iirc
[06:21] <ibanezmatt13> With the Pi, I'll be using the NTX2 radio transmitter and a Ublox GPS module.
[06:21] <Darkside> k
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[06:21] <ibanezmatt13> This will be done using serial.
[06:21] <Darkside> always overspec your regulators
[06:21] <Darkside> that 150ma regulator will get very hot supplying 150ma
[06:21] <Darkside> so get one thats designed for 1A or so
[06:22] <daveake> +1
[06:22] <daveake> (No I don't mean 2A)
[06:23] <eroomde> also use the rest of the 2kg mass budget with copper heatsink
[06:23] <ibanezmatt13> I believe I have just had an elementary electricity error. I forgot that the Pi would draw however much current it needed. That makes sense. So I can get a regulator with say a 0.8A current output at 3.3V and that would be ok?
[06:24] <daveake> It's not that so much; it's that a 150mA regulator will be physically smaller and so will be less able to dissipate the heat
[06:25] <daveake> I think I said yesterday get on in a TO220 case as they have an integral heatsink
[06:25] <daveake> aka piece of metal
[06:25] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right. I'll keep looking! :) Just one thing, how many regulators will I need? How will I regulate the GPS and Radio?
[06:26] <daveake> 1 will do it so long as it can provide the current and disspiate the heat
[06:26] <daveake> dissipate
[06:26] <eroomde> i'm not sure i understand cory doctorow
[06:26] <ibanezmatt13> So, I guess that the batteries are connected to the regulator, and then from the regulator to the Pi. Do I parrallel for the GPS and Radio or do they just get power solely from the GPIO?
[06:26] <eroomde> i decided to give it an honest go recently
[06:27] <eroomde> but... nope
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[06:28] <daveake> The GPIO 3.3V pin connected to all the other 3.3V points on the PI, so that isn't really a valid question
[06:28] <daveake> s/pin/pin is/
[06:29] <daveake> What I do is remove the existing regulator then providfe 3.3V/GND/5V to the pads that the regulator was soldered to
[06:29] <daveake> Then hang the GPS and radio off the GPIO pins
[06:30] <ibanezmatt13> What about the TP1 and TP2? Would they still be used?
[06:30] <daveake> Not in this scheme
[06:30] <daveake> A simpler option, but less efficient, is to provide 5V to the entire board.
[06:31] <daveake> Then you leave the regulator on the board
[06:31] <daveake> And you add an external 5V regulator, typically connected to the TP1/2 points
[06:31] <daveake> In that case you need more batteries
[06:31] <ibanezmatt13> So if I still used tp1 and tp2, with say 5V, would I not need to remove the onboard regulator at all, and would that be enough to power the radio and gps?
[06:31] <daveake> But, to be honest, given your questioning I think that's the best option
[06:31] <daveake> Yes
[06:32] <ibanezmatt13> alright, thanks. I'll probably go for that option then :)
[06:32] <daveake> So, get a decent 1A 5V LDO, get 6 AAs or AAAs, connect those to Vin/GND on the regulator, and take Vout/GND to the test pin.
[06:32] <daveake> That's what I did on my first launch
[06:32] <daveake> first Pi launch
[06:33] <ibanezmatt13> And I guess I can solder the Vout/GND onto the tp1/2 points for a good connection?
[06:33] <daveake> Yes definitiely do that
[06:33] <ibanezmatt13> thank you very much :)
[06:33] <daveake> You don't want to be using connectors
[06:34] <ibanezmatt13> definitely not... :)
[06:34] <eroomde> but make sure the soldered connections are strain releived
[06:34] <eroomde> they shouldn;t be taking any mechanical load
[06:34] <ibanezmatt13> Will do, thanks :)
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[06:34] <eroomde> i hadn;t finished
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[06:34] <daveake> Now, I know you said you have a model A, but a word of warning ... dont do this witha model B or if you've got anything drawing a heavy current (e.g. 3G dongle). An external linear reg can get *hot* under those circumstances.
[06:35] <eroomde> too lagte
[06:35] <daveake> blast
[06:35] <daveake> ah well he'll be back
[06:35] <daveake> When he asked "what are 5V and 3.3V lines" yesterday I instantly realised I'd taken him down the wrong path
[06:36] <eroomde> eeek
[06:42] <UpuWork> hehe
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[06:43] <number10> cold northerly winds predicted for friday - hope that doesnt stay that way into the BH weekend
[06:44] <eroomde> winter is coming
[06:44] <number10> I want to use the BBQ this year :(
[06:45] <eroomde> yes me too
[06:45] <eroomde> and i want to cycle to work
[06:45] <eroomde> cold northerly winds are not conducive
[06:46] <number10> no - and my brother invited me on his boat on friday - think I'll give that one a miss
[06:46] <eroomde> i'm hoping to catch up with some friends
[06:46] <number10> waitrose are doing racks of venison thought I would try that on the BBQ as lamb racks go well on it
[06:46] <eroomde> it's easy to not see all your university friends for half a year
[06:46] <eroomde> number10: that sounds amazing
[06:47] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Brightwalton - Sunday 26th May"
[06:47] <number10> I have one in the freezer to try - see how it goes
[06:47] <eroomde> i'm going to try guineafowl this w/e
[06:48] <eroomde> as per your suggestion
[06:49] <number10> will be interested to see if it comes out well with the same way you cook the chicken - but slightly smaller breast will need some time ajustment I should imagine
[06:49] <eroomde> yes i imagine so
[06:49] <eroomde> 45-50 mins or so
[06:51] <eroomde> there must be some old italian recipe for small birds
[06:51] <eroomde> involving spatchcocking and pizza ovens
[06:51] <eroomde> or something
[06:53] <number10> I fancied making an oven outdoors - http://www.rivercottage.net/shop/product/build-and-bake/ - click the pictures - looks fairly straight forward
[06:53] <number10> dig up some clay - some sand and a few bricks
[06:57] <eroomde> it's my dream
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[07:25] <arko> I would make pizza everyday
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[07:33] <anerDev> Hi guys
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[08:31] <KT5TK> Another failed recovery attempt: http://kt5tk.wordpress.com/2013/05/20/blt33-2-recovery-attempt/
[08:32] <Steffanx> not published yet KT5TK?
[08:33] <KT5TK> Hmm, it should be. Try to refresh
[08:33] <UpuWork> also 404
[08:33] <KT5TK> Sorry, I'll check again
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[08:39] <KT5TK> http://kt5tk.wordpress.com/ try again
[08:42] <UpuWork> jesus did you have a fight with a cat ?
[08:42] <KT5TK> No cat, sorry
[08:42] <UpuWork> nasty trees those
[08:43] <UpuWork> having another go ?
[08:43] <KT5TK> I don't think so. I'm finally at home and have solid internet connection
[08:44] <UpuWork> shame but sucessful flight
[08:44] <UpuWork> raido worked well
[08:44] <UpuWork> radio
[08:44] <KT5TK> Yes, I was happy about that too
[08:45] <UpuWork> when you've recovered I sent you a mail
[08:45] <KT5TK> I have to work on my GPS code.
[08:45] <UpuWork> whos are you using ?
[08:45] <Brace> KT5TK: sounds like you had a fun night
[08:45] <UpuWork> Try : https://github.com/Upuaut/APRS_Projects/tree/master/Pico92
[08:45] <UpuWork> I know that works
[08:45] <KT5TK> Since I always shut it off and restart it doesn't get a proper altitude
[08:46] <UpuWork> just stick it in power saving and leave it it ?
[08:46] <KT5TK> I derived my GPS code fromTrackuino
[08:46] <UpuWork> ah
[08:46] <UpuWork> probably not the best source
[08:46] <UpuWork> check my code out as its pretty well tested and I didn't write the GPS part so more chance of it working
[08:48] <KT5TK> Well, I went through it several times and I made sure I have the basics correct. I believe I know what it does. The problem is that I don't wait patiently until the GPS has a proper altitude fix
[08:49] <x-f> wow, pretty impressive story
[08:50] <KT5TK> Louisiana wilderness
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[08:51] <UpuWork> wire the GPS battery to the µC 3.3V line
[08:51] <UpuWork> and it should get a lock very quickly on power up
[08:52] <UpuWork> you can sanity check it by ensuring its reporting lock = 3 AND satellites >4
[08:53] <KT5TK> I have that first part, but checking for >4 satellites is what I should do
[08:53] <UpuWork> they do return some random locations and altitudes until they get a fix
[08:54] <UpuWork> note : if(alt>maxalt && sats >= 4)
[08:54] <UpuWork> in my code
[08:54] <KT5TK> Yes, will do that
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[09:40] <daveake> I wish there was a chemical "Em", because then I could ask if an Alchamist was someone who tried to make Am from Em
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[09:42] Nick change: Arithmetic -> RowlA
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[09:57] <Laurenceb> KT5TK: tried doing rx with that silabs ic ?
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[10:07] <SpeedEvil> Jolla.com sailfish phone pre orders open.
[10:19] <Ugi> For slightly obscure reasons I have a Honeywell HSCDANN001BA2A3 absolute pressure sensor in my bits box. Anyone know of any reason why I should not interface it to my payload and send back live pressure readings along with position, temp etc?
[10:20] <Darkside> go for it
[10:21] <Darkside> i'd be interested to know how low it goes
[10:21] <Ugi> That was what I thought! Better at 30km than sitting in my garage!
[10:21] <Ugi> I've not tried this before but I gather that the telemetry protocol allows for custom fields like that.
[10:21] <Darkside> sure does
[10:23] <Ugi> Fab - I'm just designing the circuit board, so I'll make sure it goes in - it speaks I2C so should not be an interfacing issues.
[10:24] <bertrik> speaking of pressure sensors, what kind of atmospheric pressure model do you guys use?
[10:27] <bertrik> I tried the simple model from wikipedia p = p0 * exp(-C*h) but it didn't quite fit measured data from one of costyn's flights
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[10:34] <ibanezmatt13> Hi All :) I have found a possible 5V LDO regulator. It has the TO-220 casing and has 1A output current. http://uk.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/l4941bv/ic-v-reg-5-0v-4941-to-220-3/dp/9756051 Would this be ok to go into TP1 and TP2 on the Pi?
[10:39] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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[10:40] Action: mfa298 thinks there might be a bit of an echo in here.
[10:41] <cm13g09> mfa298: indeed
[10:41] <mfa298> I guess he didn't want an answer then.
[10:41] <cm13g09> lol yeah
[10:41] <cm13g09> 1 down, 3 to go
[10:42] <qyx_> linear regulator for rpi?
[10:43] <daveake> Oh dear I missed him
[10:44] Nick change: iamdanw_ -> iamdanw
[10:44] <daveake> It's a model A linear will be ok
[10:44] <mfa298> qyx_: I think the aim is so that it can be run from batteries at altitude rather than a fixed psu
[10:45] <daveake> I explained how to do it last night by replacing the onboard reg but then he asked "what's a 3.3V and 5V rail" at which point I wished I'd not mentioned the possibility.
[10:45] <qyx_> but linear?
[10:45] <qyx_> heh
[10:45] <daveake> model A draws 115mA
[10:45] <daveake> So you're looking at 200mA total
[10:45] <daveake> So it's OK
[10:46] <daveake> But there are switching regs on ebay for £1 I'll suggest he uses one of those
[10:46] <daveake> Easier for a beginnner to connect up
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[11:00] <Ugi> Are there switching regs for 3v3? I've struggled to find one. Was thinking of running all at 3v3 with 8MHz AVR.
[11:00] <mfa298> have you tried the likes of Farnell/RS/Rapid etc. ?
[11:01] <mfa298> I'd imagine they're less likely to be found on ebay as there are few people interested in 3v3 - people want 12v -> 5v for lots of things.
[11:04] <cm13g09> mm
[11:04] <cm13g09> +1 mfa298
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[11:08] <daveake> Search ebay for LM2596S
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[11:08] <daveake> Zillions of the things available for £1-odd; variable down to 1.5V IIRC
[11:14] <Ugi> Thanks daveake - I actually have a couple of those that I bought for 12v -> 5v. Didn't notice they went right down to 1.5v. Perfect!. Do they need much smoothing? Not tried one on the 'scope.
[11:16] <daveake> No they do iut all
[11:17] <daveake> Just set the voltage then glue the pot before you change it accidentally :)
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[12:05] <cuddykid> daveake - do you set the voltage at exactly 5.0v on those regs for use with pi? worried in case (being chinese) it drops a few .1vs and then the pi shuts down
[12:06] <daveake> Well I don't use the onboard 3.3V regulator, so those problems don't happen
[12:06] <daveake> Alternatively, swap the onboard for something that is fit for purpose
[12:07] <daveake> The existing reg has too high a dropout voltage, as you probably know, hence all the issues caused by dodgy 5V supplies
[12:08] <mfa298> maybe someone should ask Eben to do a Rpi-HAb version with lots of stuff removed.
[12:08] <cuddykid> that explains the problems :)
[12:08] <cuddykid> thanks
[12:08] <daveake> Well that won't happen but something else may ... <no carrier>
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[12:11] <cuddykid> dun dun dunnn
[12:19] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave B "Re: [UKHAS] FF and Flash etc."
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[12:32] <eroomde> reply fail
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[12:48] <griffonbot> Received email: NickB "[UKHAS] Re: Falcon - Launch announcement (25th of May)"
[12:51] <griffonbot> Received email: Geoff Mather "Re: [UKHAS] FF and Flash etc."
[12:57] <HixWork> Brace, seen this? http://allyswinton.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/swim-on-blanc.html#more
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[13:12] <Brace> HixWork: ouch
[13:13] <HixWork> lucky boy
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[13:19] <Brace> yeah
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[13:21] <ibanezmatt13> Good Afternoon :) I have been searching for a 5V voltage regulator for my Pi model A. I have found this: http://uk.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/l4941bv/ic-v-reg-5-0v-4941-to-220-3/dp/9756051 It has a current rating of 1A.
[13:21] <ibanezmatt13> Would that be ok?
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[13:23] <iain-G4SGX> Afternoon peeps.. How's it hangin?
[13:23] <ibanezmatt13> http://uk.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/l4941bv/ic-v-reg-5-0v-4941-to-220-3/dp/9756051 Would that suffice as a LDO regulator for a Pi model A
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[13:26] <iain-G4SGX> I'm not familiar with the Pi, but can't see it drawing more than an amp @ 5V even when transmitting but best ask someone who knows more..
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> So you think that'll be ok? I've heard that if the regulator is designed for 1A, it should be able to dissipate the heat of say 0.5A pretty well...
[13:28] <iain-G4SGX> May still need a heatsink, should be able to tell from the specs somewhere.
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[13:29] <ibanezmatt13> I'm definitely using a heatsink, but will the actual regulator be OK for what I need? I will be powering an NTX2 radio transmitter and Ublox GPS to the Pi as well. It should be fine.
[13:29] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13: my pi pulls about 0.57 amps when capturing from the webcam
[13:30] <chrisstubbs> Its also worth nothing I am running a GPS too so that will draw slightly more power.
[13:30] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs: so for a GPS and radio transmitter, without a webcam, it shouldn't be more than 1 a shoud it?
[13:30] <chrisstubbs> Correct. It should be well under 1A
[13:30] <chrisstubbs> however even if the voltage regulator can output 1 amp. You may need a heat sink
[13:31] <HixWork> woo hoo, friend at a certain satellite manufaturing facility obtained me some of this http://goo.gl/FFT7B
[13:31] <chrisstubbs> Mine seems to overheat and cut out when it is wrapped up in its foam box
[13:31] <ibanezmatt13> Brilliant, so I should get that then... Also, it states that it requires 1uf capacitor for stability. How do regulators need to be connected? #
[13:31] <iain-G4SGX> I just received my PIC dev board. Its tiny and for £20 odd quid its a bargain, considering just piggy-backing a TX and GPS board underneath instead of designing anew board as its got all i need on it.
[13:31] <iain-G4SGX> http://www.g4sgx.org/images/pic.jpg
[13:32] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13: Check fig.6 of the datasheet
[13:33] <number10> how much did that cost iain-G4SGX ?
[13:33] <ibanezmatt13> I'll do that :) thanks
[13:33] <chrisstubbs> Voltage regulators produce a ripple on the output, the capacitor will "flatten" that out
[13:33] <iain-G4SGX> £25
[13:33] <iain-G4SGX> 125K prog memory & 4 uarts
[13:34] <number10> thats handy - is it a 32 bit PIC
[13:34] <ibanezmatt13> So the capacitor is connected in series before the regulator?
[13:34] <iain-G4SGX> no, 8 bit but with on board USB and loadsa other usefull stuff
[13:34] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13: betwwen the GND and Output. But it is also good practice to put another between the GND and Input
[13:35] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, thanks :)
[13:36] <chrisstubbs> Like I said, go with the values and setup on the datasheet. Also look into buying a heatsink that will fit the TO 220 package
[13:44] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: I think you logged out a bit to quickly earlier.
[13:45] <mfa298> however data sheets are generally your friend, they'll tell you what input/output caps you need and where.
[13:46] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: thanks. And yes, I'm in school at the moment and the internet got blocked I'm afriad...
[13:46] <griffonbot> @LadyGaanjah: Y ahoora exaamen del #HABE2 Aer que tal se nos daa jajaja (; [http://twitter.com/LadyGaanjah/status/336477998012329984]
[13:48] <jonsowman> :\
[13:48] <mfa298> the datasheets should also tell you what the voltage drop is likely to be at different loads and different temperatures as well as what heat the reg will need to disapate for an input voltage / load
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[13:51] <ibanezmatt13> am i right in thinking that i only need the 5v regulator? Will this be fine for the GPS and radio? Is it true that the GPS and radio will be powered from the Pi itself?
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[13:53] <GW8RAK> What is your supply voltage ibanezmatt13?
[13:55] <ibanezmatt13> erm, well if i use say 6 1.5V batteries, probably about 9V
[13:55] <mfa298> that's potentially going to depend on the radio and gps. For the NTX2 I think you want a supply of 5v, but the data pin shouldn't be more than 3.3v - so that can be powered from your regulator directly.
[13:56] <ibanezmatt13> so I'll have to parallel the circuit from the regulator to go into the pi and ntx2?
[13:56] <GW8RAK> If you use a simple regulator, you'll be losing 4V at 1A or about 4W of power as heat. At altitude you could find that it overheats as there is not enough air to cool it.
[13:57] <GW8RAK> A small switching regulator from ebay may be better. (Can't see any comments above about using one of these)
[13:57] <mfa298> you can probably use the 5v pin on P1 but check if there's a limit for the power you can draw.
[13:57] <mfa298> I think daveake was thinking of suggesting a switching reg from ebay earlier as well.
[13:58] <mfa298> Should be better for heat and likely to be easier to wire up.
[13:58] <GW8RAK> So that is you thinking that someone else was thinking of suggesting? lol :)
[13:59] <mfa298> 11:46 < daveake> But there are switching regs on ebay for £1 I'll suggest he uses one of those
[13:59] <mfa298> 11:46 < daveake> Easier for a beginnner to connect up
[13:59] <ibanezmatt13> I se
[13:59] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a good look at those too
[13:59] <GW8RAK> It was just the wording of it mfa298 - no offence meant
[14:00] <mfa298> you'll probably also find it's easier for an expert to connect up - I've got a couple of them from eBay for powering various things from a SLA/car
[14:00] <iain-G4SGX> Chinese switching regs. can be notoriously RF noisy. Even with a CE mark.. Work checking out.
[14:01] <griffonbot> @LadyGaanjah: 16:00 ¡COMENZAMOS! #HABE2 [http://twitter.com/LadyGaanjah/status/336481694465003520]
[14:01] <mfa298> GW8RAK: no offence taken.
[14:01] <GW8RAK> I'll have to try harder next time :)
[14:01] <ibanezmatt13> I may just stick with the linear regulator. I may be wrong but it just seems a little easier to understand...
[14:01] <mfa298> For Chinese stuff doesn't the CE mark just mean "China Export"
[14:02] <GW8RAK> Chinese Excreta?
[14:02] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: you should be able to find a switching reg with 4 wires, 2 go to the battery and to for the pi - very easy to use.
[14:02] <iain-G4SGX> Probably! :) I got a few switch modes with CE marks that completely wipe out all my HF.
[14:02] <Geoff-G8DHE_> <ibanezmatt13> You can better LDO than 450mV see these http://bit.ly/12P3Zzb
[14:02] <eroomde> there is CE and C E
[14:03] <eroomde> for eurpean C E, the c is a segment of a circle which if you continued it round would tangentially kiss the E
[14:03] <GW8RAK> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-Terminal-5V-1A-Switching-Voltage-Regulator-Power-Supply-/261169797371?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cceeed8fb looks useful
[14:03] <eroomde> for chine export the C is much nearer the E
[14:03] <iain-G4SGX> sneaky
[14:03] <eroomde> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/CE_marks.jpg
[14:04] <ibanezmatt13> gonna have to sign out now, end of lesson. Thanks for the help :)
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[14:07] <iain-G4SGX> Quick question, the Ublox GPS units use a 50 ohm antenna impedance. Is there a very thin 50 ohm coax that is used or do people create a 50 ohm PCB track and connect antenna directly?
[14:08] <mfa298> i think most people just have the antenna on the pcb with a short pcb track (hopefully at 50 ohm impedance)
[14:08] <iain-G4SGX> Ive seen those PCB GPS antennas, are they any good?
[14:09] <mfa298> this might be the sort of thing thats easiest for ibanezmatt13 when he returns. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230873115373
[14:09] <mfa298> iain-G4SGX: I've not done much GPS myself yet but I think a fair number of people are using the chip antennas happily.
[14:10] <mfa298> you might need to have it near a window / outside for testing so it can see the satelittes. But that's not an issue at altitude.
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[14:10] <craag> iain-G4SGX: They work amazingly well.
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[14:11] <craag> In conjunction with the ublox max-6 at least.
[14:14] <iain-G4SGX> cool, next dumb question, can the Ublox MAx6 operate happily close to the TX ( an inch away) without any upset or is it best to put one on the other side of the PCB with a nice big groundplane in between.?
[14:14] <eroomde> the latter
[14:14] <iain-G4SGX> tnx
[14:14] <craag> Definetely best further away
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[14:15] <craag> My PCBs have the gps chip antenna ~5cm from the tx antenna however, and work well :)
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[14:17] <iain-G4SGX> Ok thanks, best be on the safe side, as I say I'm considering just piggy backing the dev board with GPS & TX board. Dev board only weighs 7g and is tiny
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[14:24] <UpuWork> iain-G4SGX the chip antenna works very well or the Sarantel ones are good too
[14:24] <UpuWork> you can put an active antenna on there as well if you want but not really needed for HAB
[14:26] <iain-G4SGX> Yet another dumb question.. Apologies.. When keying the TX modules I see most use potential divider. Has anyone had any success using a D to A converter instead ?
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> no particular reason why not
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> just that for a one bit signal, divider works well
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[14:29] <iain-G4SGX> Yes just started reading the specs for the Ublox. An A-D would give great flexibility for implementing future modes etc. I know my PIC has a programmable reference voltage output but yet unsure at what speed it can work at
[14:30] <chrisstubbs> iain-G4SGX: I think fsphil used the analouge pin of an arduino to drive it with PWM at one point
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[14:34] <fsphil> yea worked well
[14:34] <fsphil> well, PWM
[14:34] <iain-G4SGX> All good info, just trying to create a system that's as flexible as poss. Im quite interested in some of the new data modes. I'm sure with carefull lobbying we can maybe persuade ofcom to create a new NOV given time. Bring us 'into line' with Europe and the US ! lol
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[14:35] <fsphil> you can use a DAC too but the ntx2 has enough filtering to allow pwm to work as well
[14:36] <mfa298> iain-G4SGX: we've already had a few chat's about NoVs on here with a few ideas of how to try. Someone (UpuWork?) had tried already but never heard back from ofcom/rsgb.
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[14:38] <UpuWork> yeah forget it
[14:38] <UpuWork> if they don't deny it for the transmitting on radio amateur band they'll get you on no way to shut down a remote beacon
[14:39] <eroomde> an experimental permit might be an easier option
[14:39] <eroomde> but not really a lasting solution
[14:41] <mfa298> although the experimental permit form looked like it could be a challenge to fill out. It seemed to be expecing you to only want more power for experimentation.
[14:42] <eroomde> balloon flights are experiments :)
[14:43] <mfa298> agreed, might just need to re-write their form to request a suitable experimental permit (or have lots of N/A's on it)
[14:44] <eroomde> I think they might also like to send someone over
[14:44] <eroomde> just to check you're not a crank
[14:44] <eroomde> but some shiny test equipment and tea and biscuits can sort that
[14:44] <iain-G4SGX> Without owning your own satellite, experiments into which communication systems and frequencies are best suited for satellites can only be assessed by HAB's
[14:45] <SpeedEvil> on a general point of law, they probably can't refuse a licence on the grounds it doesn't fit the form
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[14:45] <mfa298> judging by some ham rallies just having a shower and knowing how to use it might be enough to prove your not a crank.
[14:45] <SpeedEvil> they have to have some process for exceptions, or they are probably 'fettering discretion' - and liable to judicial review.
[14:46] <SpeedEvil> however, judicial review may be a leeeeeetle extreme in this case.
[14:48] <chrisstubbs> 'ferreting discretion'
[14:48] <iain-G4SGX> Old boys network what we need. Anyone a Mason? lol Someone with an Ofcom contact.
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[14:49] <mfa298> alternativly do we just have to get enough people on board and get someone to send them a similar request every week until they give in.
[14:50] <chrisstubbs> mfa298: what frequency/power will the application be for?
[14:50] <chrisstubbs> or just to use a normal foundation HAM licence
[14:51] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: in one of the recent discussions there was some talk about just making small steps - so potentially just to use 10mW on 434 but with a ham callsign as that just opens up the door.
[14:51] <GW8RAK> Can Foundation licence holders get an NOV?
[14:51] <mfa298> I suspect initially such NoVs would need to be done by Full license holders.
[14:52] <craag> 434 maybe more difficult than any other band as it's primarily MoD.
[14:52] <chrisstubbs> mfa298: can you not do that anyway? At the end of the day its a license free band
[14:52] <mfa298> if we can get them to allow HAM with 10mW on 434 we can try a step further for 2m or more power etc.
[14:53] <craag> The MoD's 70cm repeater approval process is painful (and slow) enough.
[14:53] <iain-G4SGX> Difficult to justify the NOV though, maybe suggest 15mW?
[14:53] <iain-G4SGX> To compare 'experimentaly' with the 10mw data
[14:54] <GW8RAK> When I suggested that the air cadets launch a balloon, the powers that be self combusted.
[14:54] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: when I'd looked before one thought I had was that there was a secondary freq for ARPS on 70cms (although it has very little use) but the only thing the NoV has to say is it can be used airborne and we could initially just use normal HAB power and frequency - i.e. make it as easy for Ofcom to say yes as possible (and open the door to ask for more later)
[14:56] Action: mfa298 needs to get a payload made first (having found I missed a few vital components off the RS order last week)
[15:01] <chrisstubbs> speaking of legalities
[15:02] <chrisstubbs> is there any difference in the air. nav. law or ofcom laws about doing a flight for a company?
[15:02] <chrisstubbs> than to doing a standard perosnal one
[15:02] <chrisstubbs> *personal
[15:03] <craag> Nope.
[15:03] <chrisstubbs> Cool, for some reason i thought there was just one difference
[15:03] <chrisstubbs> oh well. home time!
[15:03] <chrisstubbs> laters
[15:03] <chrisstubbs> :)
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[15:04] <mfa298> the only time that stuff for a company could get akward is if we could get a NoV for amateur radio
[15:06] <craag> Yeah, but in that case you have an ISM beacon for the company flight, and a piggybacked amateur radio experiment payload :)
[15:08] <iain-G4SGX> Shame the RSGB are so crap, this is a perfect job for them.
[15:09] <mfa298> hmmm, just wondering if this could be a good time to ask them. I think there was a bit about HAB in the recent radcom (although mines still in the wrapper)
[15:10] <craag> mfa298: Yeah that was talking about the 868MHz band being the next big thing.. which is perhaps a bit unhelpful in this case.
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[15:16] <mfa298> having just read the article the bit that looked interesting says that amateur radio isn't allowed airborne due to concerns from the CAA - If that's the case it could make NoVs / Experimental licenses more interesting.
[15:16] Nick change: prawnsalad -> pwefwef1
[15:16] Nick change: pwefwef1 -> prawnsalad
[15:16] <griffonbot> @LadyGaanjah: Ya esta, echo, solo falta el idazlan. #HABE2 [http://twitter.com/LadyGaanjah/status/336500804590641152]
[15:17] Nick change: prawnsalad -> pwefwef2
[15:17] Nick change: pwefwef2 -> prawnalad
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[15:18] <iain-G4SGX> As far as |I see it it their job to intercede between the ham community and Ofcom. They have frequent meetings. If they refuse to help it will just prove what everyone is saying about them recently.
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[15:21] <mfa298> reading some forums I think people havn't had much faith in the RSGB for a long time.
[15:23] <iain-G4SGX> We could present them with a petition to start with. Maybe just asking for a small NOV for 15mw . Fairly sure if we suggest 10mw they will say that is already covered with current legislation. They may want a remote switch off facility though, easy to do.
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[15:25] <craag> I'm still thinking 434 may not be the best band to expand onto, it's all going to have to be passed my the MoD, and we've already seen issues with car locks and the like with 10mW.
[15:26] <mfa298> might also be able to cover the remote switchoff by stating that intial test flights will be limited to 2 hours (which I think is time in the license for turning off an unattended beacon)
[15:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> Car lock problems are not due to 10mW, but the ERP from a local repeater!
[15:26] <mfa298> although don't want be limited to 2 hours permanently.
[15:27] <mfa298> If the CAA are part of the issue I can see 2m being harder as well as thats closer to their frequencies.
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[15:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> When was the CAA last asked ? That clause has been in the licence since before 1950!!!
[15:27] <gonzo_> what you want is a special research licence, reather than an NoV
[15:28] <gonzo_> they would tend to be valis for a period
[15:30] <gonzo_> I could see then rejecting a general lifting of the caluse. And having people using watts of power on their 2mtr hheld in a commercial plane
[15:31] <mfa298> I think generaly lifting is unlikely to happen anytime soon. But starting with a special research permit and moving towards a standard NoV could be good.
[15:33] <gonzo_> the research permit is the path that people use to get permission for high power EME work etc
[15:35] <gonzo_> would be easiest to get in the primary bands. say 2mtrs. Which would give us the option of using something like the 144.390MHz modules at a few 100mw, or airborne aprs
[15:35] <gonzo_> shared bands are more of a prob
[15:35] <craag> Yeah I'd say go for 2m
[15:35] <gonzo_> 70cm could take years of paperwork
[15:36] <craag> It's soon to be expanded anyway :)
[15:36] <gonzo_> 2mtrs?
[15:36] <craag> yeah
[15:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> Talking about adding 146-147
[15:36] <gonzo_> 70cm will almost certainly be reduced
[15:37] <gonzo_> but there is so littel useage it's greedy to have
[15:37] <craag> What I'm wondering is whether we want to use APRS, or a different freq so we can use higher duty-cycle?
[15:37] <craag> APRS isn't going to be much use for ssdv
[15:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> They MoD haven't given up any 70cms so far so but they are giving up some of 23cms
[15:37] <gonzo_> the moves in the mucrowave bands is to try and get smaller primary allocations that will be safe in the long term
[15:38] <gonzo_> the 2300mhz area is due to be auctioned soon
[15:38] <gonzo_> 9600bd at 2mtrs would be nice
[15:39] <gonzo_> (I can finally use my modems!!)
[15:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Given the amount of data people send we don't need a higher baud rate! It might be easier to go for video!
[15:41] <gonzo_> only because we are hamstrung by the power limitations
[15:41] <gonzo_> if we could run higher power then there would be higher rate systems flown.
[15:42] <craag> Well have 1hz position and telemetry updates with 1/2 FEC is probably as much as most people want, but still demands about 1000bps.
[15:44] <gonzo_> should be able to get posn and alt down to 10bytes. With FEC that is a raw 200bd ?
[15:44] <craag> hehe I tend to send a lot of telemetry :P
[15:45] <craag> But also had mentally included rs232 overhead.. oops
[15:45] <gonzo_> the 10/15sec updates are probably all that is needed, the 1Hz is just a nicety
[15:45] <gonzo_> (I added the start/stop bits)
[15:46] <craag> gonzo_: Of course, remember our american colleagues use 10 minute updates :P
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[15:46] <craag> Or some do.
[15:47] <gonzo_> neccesity being the mother of invention (and bad spelling) I'm still always impressed at the UK tracking network
[15:48] <mfa298> which has to be a good reason to try and stay away from APRS (or only have it as a secondary tracking method)
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[15:50] <Laurenceb> http://img.pr0gramm.com/2013/05/mpbe5bw.jpg
[15:50] <craag> Using a single FM channel as a downlink with a max erp. of 1W, and 2h max time limit would enable quite a lot.
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[15:52] <gonzo_> a permenant SRP would be nice. Or limited to a month!
[15:53] <gonzo_> I suspect that most stations have a dual band colinear or similar and using a dongle or 817. So would be reasonbly painless to run 2mtrs as well.
[15:54] <gonzo_> just some habamps with different filters req!
[15:55] <craag> 2m saw filters are hard to come by..
[15:56] <UpuWork> http://www.golledge.com/pdf/products/saw/gsrf.pdf
[15:56] <UpuWork> afk
[15:56] Action: cm13g09 re-emerges from a databases exam
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[16:04] <craag> afternoon cm13g09
[16:05] <cm13g09> hi craag
[16:05] <craag> how was it?
[16:05] <cm13g09> harder than I wanted it to be :P
[16:05] <craag> :/ whens your next?
[16:05] <cm13g09> managable though
[16:07] <HAB> Hello good people, may i ask a couple of quick questions?
[16:07] <jonsowman> first rule of IRC, don't ask to ask
[16:07] <jonsowman> (yes)
[16:07] <HAB> right
[16:07] <HAB> :)
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[16:08] <eroomde> second rule, don;t name yourself with a reserved keyword
[16:08] <eroomde> hab is not a good name oin a hab channel
[16:09] <jonsowman> haha
[16:09] <HAB> ok myself and a couple of friends are starting out on this project to learn from scratch. We want to start purchasing some hardware. im guessing the Arduino Uno r3 is a good starting place?
[16:09] <jonsowman> have you read this? http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
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[16:11] <HAB> Yes we have
[16:11] <eroomde> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[16:11] <eroomde> that ?
[16:12] <ibanezmatt13> Hi all :) Just wondering, if I use 6 1.5v AA batteries, which equates to 9V in total, and my regulator has a drop out voltage of 450mA (so it will start to fail at 5.45v), how can I calculate the time the batteries will give out a voltage above 5.45v?
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> read the data sheet of the batteries
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> find when the voltage crosses 5.45/6
[16:13] <eroomde> they'll be dead long before that
[16:13] <ibanezmatt13> Ah that makes sense, I'll take a look. Thanks. I can never think of the obvious things...
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> but yes
[16:13] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: look at the capacity of the batteries in mAh
[16:13] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: ok, i'll check the data sheet now
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> at under 0.9v, most chemistries have very limited energy left
[16:13] <eroomde> work out the current consumption of the thing you're powering in mA
[16:14] <eroomde> and divide the capacity by the consumption to get the run time in hours
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> if a linear regulator
[16:14] <eroomde> i think it was from memory
[16:15] <ibanezmatt13> I figured that the radio transmitter has 0.18A, the Pi needs around 500mA, and the GPS needs over 100mA. So that's about 0.78A consumption I guess...
[16:15] <HAB> ah that looks interesting, i'll give it a read through, but in terms of hardware is the components of a basic payload for video flight, a micro controller, gps module, radio transmition chip and antenna.
[16:15] <eroomde> 0.18A!
[16:15] <eroomde> that's a lot
[16:15] <qyx_> gps over 100?
[16:15] <jonsowman> HAB: yes that sounds right, yep
[16:15] <eroomde> HAB: define video flight
[16:15] <ibanezmatt13> I may be wrong... That's what it says
[16:16] <ibanezmatt13> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51
[16:16] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: which transmitter are you using?
[16:16] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: NTX2 434.075
[16:16] <ibanezmatt13> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=62
[16:16] <eroomde> it won;t be pulling 180mA
[16:16] <eroomde> trust
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> also, use a pi model a
[16:16] <eroomde> i think someone forgot a 0
[16:16] <eroomde> 0.018A
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> that wants about 200ma less
[16:16] <ibanezmatt13> I'm sorry, I missed a 0 out!
[16:16] <HAB> basically stick a camera on video mode and send it up, nothing fancy, just want a taste of this hobby
[16:16] <eroomde> :)
[16:17] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, that's what I meant. My apologies :)
[16:17] <eroomde> HAB: cool, just so long as you know it'lkl be video stored onboard
[16:17] <eroomde> i.e., you can't send video down with our normal tech
[16:17] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: so say about 650mA
[16:17] <eroomde> as a round number
[16:17] <ibanezmatt13> yeah let's go for that :)
[16:18] <HAB> yeah i understand that, but as i am a novice in electronics i want to keep things a simple as possible
[16:18] <eroomde> cool
[16:18] <ibanezmatt13> so i need to find the capacity of the batteries?
[16:18] <jonsowman> HAB: there's no better way to learn than by doing it
[16:18] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: yes
[16:19] <ibanezmatt13> I gathered that I need to use Lithium batteries; any particular type?
[16:20] <craag> ibanezmatt13: Energizer Ultimate Lithium are the most used.
[16:20] <ibanezmatt13> I'll take a look, thanks
[16:20] <craag> ibanezmatt13: THere's a datasheet for the AA variant here: http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf
[16:20] <ibanezmatt13> thank you very much
[16:20] <HAB> scary though, i have no idea the lengths of code that are needed. as there are so many objectives of sending up a High altitude Ballon its hard to find a standardised setup for taking photos or video, and what the agreed upon method of tracking
[16:21] <jonsowman> HAB: there is a pretty standard telemetry format in the UK, the wiki has details
[16:22] <craag> HAB: Start small, try some basic porjects with the arduino first to get used to the code and how it relates to inputs/outputs.
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[16:22] <ibanezmatt13> Am I looking for discharge in ah?
[16:22] <craag> Then you can move to using the radio transmitter as an output, then the GPS as an input, then build it up from there. That's how I did it :)
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[16:24] <HAB> craag: right i understand i'll get and purchase a few bits start playing around then we'll see!
[16:24] <jonsowman> good idea :)
[16:25] <craag> Have fun!
[16:25] <ibanezmatt13> Somehow, I cannot seem to find the amp-hour rating for this particular battery on the datasheet...
[16:25] <arko> 3000mAh isnt it?
[16:25] <craag> ibanezmatt13: 'Milliamp-Hours Capacity'...
[16:25] <jonsowman> L91? yep
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[16:26] <ibanezmatt13> yeah the l91. I'm still looking...
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[16:26] <arko> look at the chart Milliamp-Hours Capacity
[16:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> First chart Milliamp-Hours Capacity
[16:26] <arko> first page
[16:26] <arko> lol
[16:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> But watch teh temperature
[16:26] <HAB> Thank you for your help jonsowman, craag, eroomde. i'll get purchasing.
[16:26] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, i got it now. Didn't think to look at the bar charts... :\
[16:26] <jonsowman> good luck
[16:26] <HAB> i'll need it...
[16:27] <jonsowman> the wiki has lots of help, and you can always come back here
[16:27] <ibanezmatt13> let's call it 2650mAh, that ok?
[16:28] <HAB> Thanks guys
[16:28] <ibanezmatt13> just one issue, that's for 21 degrees c
[16:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> So look lower down and convert it to power
[16:29] <ibanezmatt13> I'll do that now
[16:31] <ibanezmatt13> hmm
[16:33] <ibanezmatt13> it's a little more complex than i thought...
[16:33] <ibanezmatt13> It's a little more complex than I first thought...
[16:34] <jonsowman> welcome to engineering
[16:34] <ibanezmatt13> :
[16:34] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[16:34] <arko> lol
[16:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> 0.65Amp * 1 Volt = 0.65Watts ~ 3.5 Hours @ 0°C
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[16:36] <ibanezmatt13> I see! Of course. Power = Current x Voltage. That was a lot easier than I was making out, thanks
[16:36] <mfa298> Should be a new rule of HAB, Learn to read datasheets.
[16:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> But the volts vary of course over the life ;-)
[16:36] <daveake> and temperature
[16:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> indeed 0° is only the start!
[16:37] <ibanezmatt13> so surely, 3 hours is not long enough for a full flight?
[16:37] <daveake> Nope
[16:37] <daveake> You need 3 hours or so for the flight, a couple of hours before for faffing around and a couple more at the end to find it
[16:38] <ibanezmatt13> so we need a few batteries...
[16:38] <daveake> I've flown a payload with 6 hours runtime but I wouldn't want to go lower
[16:39] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: I found a potential regulator. http://uk.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/l4941bv/ic-v-reg-5-0v-4941-to-220-3/dp/9756051
[16:39] <daveake> A pack of 6 AAs, and a switching reg, should give you about 20 hours with a typical Pi model A tracker
[16:39] <daveake> 'cos that's what I got :p
[16:40] <ibanezmatt13> switching reg, that sounds complex...
[16:40] <daveake> Search ebay for LM2596S
[16:40] <ibanezmatt13> ok, will do
[16:40] <ibanezmatt13> thansk
[16:40] <cm13g09> daveake: they are amazing little chips aren't they?
[16:41] <daveake> Yep work well so cheap
[16:41] <cm13g09> :)
[16:41] <daveake> Modules for £1.05 delivered IIRC
[16:41] <ibanezmatt13> how do these differ from linear regulators?
[16:41] <nigelvh_> Well this is useful. My boss just gave me an oyster card. Totally useful here in the US.
[16:41] <nigelvh_> Also he says it's empty.
[16:42] <daveake> They work completely differently, ut essentially, they're more efficient
[16:42] <cm13g09> nigelvh_: THAT was pointless
[16:42] <ibanezmatt13> Do these regulators need capacitors?
[16:42] <daveake> All on the board
[16:42] <arko> daveake: did you modify the OS settings/config to save power?
[16:43] <arko> like regulating cpu speed, etc ect
[16:43] <daveake> no, but Eben suggested switching the analog video o/p off
[16:43] <daveake> CPU speed makes bugger-all difference I believe
[16:43] <arko> ah
[16:43] <daveake> I'll try some things this week
[16:43] <arko> found this a while back
[16:43] <arko> http://freneticrapport.blogspot.com/2013/02/more-raspberry-pi-power-saving-part-3.html
[16:43] <daveake> ta
[16:43] <arko> there is a link to part 1 and 2
[16:44] <ibanezmatt13> so is it simply a case of, positive and negative from batteries into regulator, and then +5V/GND into Pi?
[16:44] <arko> was interested to see how it works in practice
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[16:46] <arko> its coffee time!
[16:47] <cm13g09> ibanezmatt13: pretty much
[16:47] <cm13g09> as far as I can tell
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[16:48] <ibanezmatt13> So with the LM2596S, is there nothing to worry about regarding drop out voltage?
[16:49] <ibanezmatt13> on the data sheet it says it has a drop out voltage of 1.5V
[16:50] <ibanezmatt13> so it'll start falling at 6.5V; is that ok?
[16:51] <daveake> Well make sure you have plenty of batteries
[16:51] <ibanezmatt13> I'll probably go for 9 AA batteries.
[16:52] <daveake> why?
[16:52] <ibanezmatt13> Will 9V not drop to 6.5V during flight?
[16:54] <GW8RAK> ibanezmatt13 - this is the sort of thing to consider ebay item number 281100339930
[16:54] <ibanezmatt13> I've just been looking at that exact one ! :)
[16:54] <daveake> By the time a Lithium AA gets to 1V there's bugger-all capacity left
[16:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> At 1 Amp load its drop out is less than 1 volt according to the data sheet
[16:55] <daveake> So that's between 6 and 7 batteries really for the 6.5V you mentioned
[16:55] <daveake> And as I said, my last Pi flight used 6 AAs and ran for 20 hours
[16:55] <daveake> Should be enough for you
[16:56] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, I'll do some more research. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281100339930?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D281100339930%26_rdc%3D1 Is this the exact thing I should get?
[16:56] <daveake> I'd go for 6
[16:56] <daveake> yes
[16:56] <ibanezmatt13> yeah I'll go for 6 :)
[16:56] <ibanezmatt13> alright, well I'll purchase that now as it should take some time to get here from Hong Kong
[16:57] <daveake> tbh 6AAAs will give you 8 hours
[16:57] <daveake> less weight. batteries no cheaper so, up to you
[16:58] <ibanezmatt13> that's good to know. I really hope I don't have a mid-flight power failure. Would it be difficult to get a mobile phone to pin point it's GPS and send it on an SMS?
[16:58] <daveake> won't work mid flight
[16:58] <ibanezmatt13> I'll use 6 AAA's then
[16:58] <daveake> probably won't work on landing either
[16:59] <ibanezmatt13> Sorry, I meant when it gets within reception of a good mobile signal
[16:59] <ibanezmatt13> after it's landed
[16:59] <daveake> yes and it quite likely won't get one
[16:59] <ibanezmatt13> i see. So i guess there's no way of having a backup if the radio fails?
[17:00] <qyx_> what, why?
[17:00] <daveake> It can work, and one of my payloads streamed a video of its own recovery, but you can't rely on it
[17:00] <ibanezmatt13> I'll just make sure I do a good job of it and hope for the best...
[17:01] <ibanezmatt13> So that LM2596 is definitely what I'm getting?
[17:02] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: There are a variety of backup systems people have tried but they all have interesting ways of failing. Especially when they're at ground level. SMS being a good example of that.
[17:02] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: i see, it should be fine if i do it properly
[17:02] <mfa298> radio has the advantage that you can get a fix during the whole flight so you can get useful predictions.
[17:02] <mfa298> and as long as there's a carrier it's possible to direction find it using a directional antenna
[17:03] <ibanezmatt13> what shall i do with recieving the radio info? Do I need a really tall aerial. I figured i'll need a line of sight
[17:04] <mfa298> height helps.
[17:05] <ibanezmatt13> so will i need to buy a directional yagi antenna and climb my roof?
[17:05] <mfa298> for recieving at home a colinear on the roof (or on a pole in the garden) is likely to be best
[17:06] <mfa298> a directional yagi you'll need to rotate as flights move to keep recieving it.
[17:06] <ibanezmatt13> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/displayProduct.jsp?sku=2096217&CMP=e-2072-00001000&gross_price=true&mckv=YKMwxwd8|pcrid|14164337469|plid|{placement} would that thing work
[17:06] <GW8RAK> Get in touch with your local amateur radio club and explain what you are doing. You may bell be able to borrow what you need or you'll probably be given an aerial.
[17:06] <mfa298> yagi may be of use when you're out tracking mobile if you need to get a bearing on the payload
[17:07] <mfa298> That yagi won't be much good, wrong frequency
[17:07] <ibanezmatt13> i could probably do with hiring one that's a good point
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[17:08] <ibanezmatt13> How do we track the payload from a car? When we're picking it up?
[17:08] <mfa298> for home use a lot of people use something like the diamond X-50 http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/x-50_diamond_2m_70cm_fixed_station_vertical-p-1915.html
[17:08] <mfa298> for mobile tracking some form of magmount 2/70 antenna works well.
[17:09] <ibanezmatt13> how do these plug into my pc?
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[17:09] <mfa298> antennas don't plug directly into your pc. They either go into a dedicated radio reciever which then feeds sound into your pc.
[17:09] <mfa298> or you use some form of SDR dongle
[17:09] <mfa298> like the rtl-sdr or FCD Pro+
[17:10] <ibanezmatt13> And i assume that dl-fldigi program decodes the sound?
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[17:10] <mfa298> dl-fldigi takes the sound and decodes that.
[17:10] <chrisstubbs> "
[17:10] <chrisstubbs> Alert icon
[17:10] <chrisstubbs> Sit tight! Your video edits are almost 10% finished. Come back to this page in a little while.
[17:10] <chrisstubbs> stupid paste. stupid youtube!
[17:10] <jonsowman> Alert icon
[17:10] <jonsowman> nice
[17:10] <jonsowman> who needs graphics
[17:10] <mfa298> There's a good list of the various recievers on http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[17:11] <chrisstubbs> guess that copied the alt tag
[17:11] <ibanezmatt13> For now, I'll wait until my regulator arrives and I'll start by making sure everything gets good power. I guess the tracking is one of the last things I'll be doing. Thanks again for the info. I'm bookmarking all of these links! Thanks
[17:11] <ibanezmatt13> I'd better do some revision now :) thanks again
[17:12] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: I'd get into tracking other peoples flights first
[17:12] <ibanezmatt13> how do i do that?
[17:12] <mfa298> you'll need a reciver anyway to test your transmitter works
[17:12] <mfa298> cheapest option is to get a habamp and rtl-sdr
[17:12] <ibanezmatt13> i have a receiver which can receive SSB
[17:12] <mfa298> and make some sort of antenna
[17:12] <ibanezmatt13> I don't have a tall antenna
[17:13] <ibanezmatt13> make?
[17:13] <mfa298> in that case that's what you plug a big antenna into
[17:13] <mfa298> this is what I use to track hab flights. http://m1ari.co.uk/node/10
[17:13] <ibanezmatt13> and how do i track other flights? Do I just tune in to receive that particular frequency
[17:14] <mfa298> tune into it and feed the audio into dl-fldigi.
[17:14] <ibanezmatt13> that looks good, I'll start doing that as soon as possible. Thanks guys. Got to go now I'm afraid. Thanks for all the help, really appreciate it!
[17:14] <mfa298> at least one person uses something like a j-pole antenna which is made from ladder line.
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[17:30] <anerDev> hey guys
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[17:36] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:38] <anerDev> hello !
[17:38] <anerDev> i have 2 question:
[17:38] <anerDev> - the stylo antenna is good for transmitt the data from the ballon to the earth ? Or the best is the cross antenna ?
[17:40] <anerDev> - I don't understand the differente between the RocketMan balloon and Spherachute parachute
[17:40] <fsphil> one is a balloon, one is a parachute
[17:41] <fsphil> you mean Rocketman parachute?
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[17:42] <arko> hmm
[17:42] <mfa298> I'm not sure I understand the question about antennas - Are those particular brands of antenna ?
[17:42] <arko> do the HAB1200 and HAB350 have the same neck diameter?
[17:42] <arko> the website lists starting at HAB800
[17:43] <arko> 3cm
[17:44] <anerDev> and why are in the page of the parachute ?
[17:44] <anerDev> mfa298 no no, in general what's the best antenna from transmitt ?
[17:44] <mfa298> and the only thing I can think of for cross antenna is crossed dipoles / turnstile antenna which probably isn't whats needed
[17:45] <mfa298> for the payload most people make a simple driven element and radials antenna
[17:45] <anerDev> a link about this ?
[17:46] <anerDev> a tutorial for make radials antenna
[17:46] <mfa298> I'm not sure I have a link for a tutorial to make one.
[17:47] <mfa298> but it's going to look similar to the groundplan antenna you've linked to several times.
[17:47] <anerDev> the groundplan antenna I use for receive the data, not for transmitt !
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[17:48] <mfa298> you can make something of a similar design to go on the payload.
[17:49] <anerDev> uhmm ook
[17:49] <anerDev> one moment
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[17:52] <anerDev> this is my situation of the antenna: http://d.pr/i/RuIP
[17:53] <WILLdude> Hello
[17:54] <mfa298> is that your current payload box - if so what antennas do you already have ?
[17:54] <anerDev> hi
[17:54] <anerDev> yes, this is my payload box
[17:54] <anerDev> Now I'm using the stylo antenna (long)
[17:54] <anerDev> the short antenna is the gsm
[17:55] <mfa298> I assume stylo is the manufacturer then.
[17:55] <mfa298> Is that's what's on the radio module you're currently using (NTX2?)
[17:56] <anerDev> yes
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[17:57] <mfa298> if it's designed for 434MHz then it will probably work.
[17:57] <anerDev> the antenna say: "RH701 144/430 MHz & Wide Band Receiving coverage, made in japan"
[17:57] <mfa298> although if it's designed to need a ground plane it might not work optimally if there isn't one
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[17:59] <anerDev> in the package can't read this
[17:59] <anerDev> but is this possible ? http://d.pr/i/uRzN
[18:00] <ibanezmatt13> I've just been looking at the Ublox GPS. It says it needs 3.3V but more than 100mA. In which case, doesn't that mean it needs it's own 3.3v regulator. If I'm powering the Pi using a 5v reg, does that mean i need another one?
[18:00] <mfa298> it will probably work, My only concens would be whether there's enough ground plane for it (if it needs one) and what it's radiation pattern will be like
[18:01] <anerDev> I'm searching the datasheets
[18:01] <daveake> It needs >100mA in spikes. I've used one on a Pi and it's been fine.
[18:01] <mfa298> your picture will be about right for radiation pattern but that's likely to be true for most antennas suitable for HAB
[18:01] <ibanezmatt13> So I still need only the one switching regulator?
[18:03] <ibanezmatt13> Will I be powering the GPS with pin 1 3.3v supply on the Pi's GPIO?
[18:03] <anerDev> mfa298 http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/rh-701_diamond_2m_70cm_super_flexible-p-307.html
[18:04] <anerDev> there isn't write that need ground plan
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[18:05] Nick change: nigelvh_ -> nigelvh
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[18:06] <mfa298> anerDev: whilst doesn't say it needs a ground plane it's designed for a hand held radio so if it needs a level of groundplane that could come from the radio chassis
[18:07] <mfa298> it should work but I don't know how well it will radiate
[18:07] <mfa298> of the things you can buy it's probably as good as anything else
[18:08] <anerDev> ook ! =D
[18:09] <anerDev> can I use an aluminium shet like a ground plane ?
[18:09] <anerDev> *sheet
[18:11] <mfa298> if it needs one then that would work. But we don't know what the antenna looks like inside. It could be a design that doesn't need a groundplane, it could be a design that does need one (and assumes you'll get it from the radio)
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[18:13] <anerDev> ook !
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[18:14] <anerDev> another question: the weight of my payload is < 1Kg
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[18:15] <anerDev> I think the best balloon is Brand New, High Quality Balloon. Hwoyee 1600
[18:15] <anerDev> but what's the recomanded parachute ? http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Parachutes.html
[18:15] <fsphil> http://habhub.org/calc/
[18:16] <fsphil> that balloon is very big
[18:16] <mfa298> You might have issues using a Used balloon
[18:16] <fsphil> very very big
[18:17] <eroomde> anerDev: 999g is <1kg
[18:17] <eroomde> 1g < 1kg
[18:17] <eroomde> need more info
[18:17] <eroomde> also are you on the mailing list?
[18:18] <anerDev> nope
[18:18] <anerDev> need you my email ?
[18:18] <eroomde> no
[18:18] <eroomde> but there was a good discussion recently on parachute sizes
[18:19] <anerDev> link please
[18:19] <anerDev> Brand New, High Quality Balloon. Hwoyee 1200 is good but is out of stock ! -.-"
[18:19] <anerDev> where can i buy ?
[18:19] <eroomde> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ukhas/giEVDwTUJ6I/mnniYTcO1YgJ
[18:19] <eroomde> read that and the next 4 or 5 or so
[18:20] <eroomde> anerDev: ask RocketBoy when they'll be back in stock
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[18:22] <eroomde> anerDev: you are on the mailing list...
[18:22] <anerDev> on google group
[18:22] <eroomde> or at least you were
[18:22] <anerDev> yes :)
[18:22] <anerDev> one moment
[18:23] <anerDev> whrew can I contact rocketboy ?
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[18:24] <eroomde> he runs the balloon shop
[18:24] <eroomde> so via the contact address on his site
[18:24] <eroomde> or he also comes on irc
[18:25] <anerDev> I don't understand the different between RocketMan Ballon Parachute and Sphrerachute
[18:25] <anerDev> !
[18:25] <eroomde> they're just brands
[18:25] <eroomde> pick one that you think will be big enough
[18:27] Nick change: jol02 -> jolo2
[18:27] <anerDev> ok, but what's the difference ?
[18:28] <eroomde> the people who make them
[18:28] <eroomde> slioghtly different design
[18:28] <eroomde> actually the rocketman chutes are a bit shit, stability-wise
[18:29] <anerDev> ok, the best are sphrachute ?
[18:29] <eroomde> i'd get the spherachute
[18:29] <eroomde> yep
[18:29] <anerDev> ok
[18:30] <anerDev> in my case, I think the best is the 30in spherachute
[18:30] <anerDev> descent rate is 5.963131615936924
[18:30] <anerDev> m/s
[18:30] <eroomde> sounds about right
[18:30] <arko> not to mention they balloon attachment option is nice
[18:30] <arko> the*
[18:31] <eroomde> suspect it's not going to be quite that precise tho ;)
[18:31] <arko> sig figs yo
[18:31] <arko> haha
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[18:32] <eroomde> that's to within tens of picometers/sec
[18:34] <anerDev> O.0
[18:34] <arko> that maybe within the size of an atom
[18:34] <eroomde> .
[18:35] <arko> whats an angstrom, 100picometers?
[18:35] <eroomde> yes
[18:35] <arko> 10^-10m
[18:35] <arko> ok yeah
[18:35] <arko> hah
[18:36] <arko> im not sure where im going with this
[18:37] <eroomde> no
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[18:48] <arko> exciting day, going watch pyro tests later
[18:48] <arko> distance =/= distance/sec derp
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> hi GW8RAK
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> hi arko and everyone else
[18:48] <arko> blarg
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> the Challenger movie about Richard Feynman's work is well done
[18:50] <GW8RAK> Hi Lunar_Lander
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[18:51] <GW8RAK> Just got in to find that my Raspberry Pi has crashed and corrupted the SD card.
[18:51] <GW8RAK> So it's back to the beginning and see if I can get it working again
[18:51] <SpeedEvil> http://xkcd.com/182/
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[18:54] <chrisstubbs> GW8RAK, yeah they seem to like doing that
[18:54] <GW8RAK> So it's not just me then.
[18:55] <GW8RAK> And tonight's job was to backup the image in case it got corrupted like the previous one did.
[18:55] <chrisstubbs> Im sure you hear it a lot, but its really fussy about the SD card and PSU
[18:55] <chrisstubbs> good plan
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> hi chrisstubbs
[18:56] <GW8RAK> This is a Farnell "official" SD card and 2A psu
[18:56] <chrisstubbs> evening lunary
[18:56] <chrisstubbs> oops
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[18:56] <chrisstubbs> GW8RAK, ah well you would think it would be perfect
[18:56] <chrisstubbs> is the PSU stable, no noise?
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> evening dave
[18:57] <chrisstubbs> Also all the 99p chinese micro USB cables seem to be such a high resistance the pi dosent get enough voltage
[18:57] <mfa298> So far for my pi I've replaced backup with documentation - meaning I can just copy and paste commands to get things going again.
[18:57] <GW8RAK> I haven't put it on the scope to test it, but I've no reason to doubt it. Can also try a Farnell psu
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> GW8RAK, did you see the BBC2 challenger movie?
[18:59] <GW8RAK> No, was it on recently?
[18:59] <GW8RAK> Challenger? First shuttle to fail?
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> aired may 12
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> a movie centered around richard feynman
[19:01] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, "the fantastic mr feynman"?
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> the film before it
[19:02] <GW8RAK> I've got a terrific picture of it launching taken from out at sea. Yacht in foreground and a trail of steam heading upwards
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> where feynman gets into the training shuttle
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> that doesn't look like a shuttle cockpit
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> at least not the 2000's version
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> the overhead panels are different
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[19:09] <russss> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Shuttle_Landing_Simulator_cockpit.jpg
[19:09] <russss> was that one, iirc
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[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> looked more crammed like the "new" one http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap120418.html
[19:11] <chrisstubbs> Pi payload and bench PSU are set up on the table outside... this is going to be expensive if it rains
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[19:23] <fsphil> rain? in this part of the world?!
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[19:31] <chrisstubbs> Upu, got a GPS fix at last. Turns out they dont put the metal sheilds on those uBlox modules just for fun ;)
[19:32] <Upu> what were you jamming it with ?
[19:32] <OM1ATS> Hello ! Good news from Slovakia. STS-3 is rescued :)
[19:32] <chrisstubbs> With a proper antenna on the NTX2, and the ublox placed nearby
[19:32] <chrisstubbs> the sheild came off when i removed the chip from one of my screwed up boards with hot air
[19:33] <Upu> hmm your active antenna may not have filtering in it ?
[19:33] <chrisstubbs> chip antenna
[19:33] <Upu> good news OM1ATS how did you get it down from that tree ?
[19:33] <Upu> ah ok
[19:33] <OM1ATS> with 13m sonde killer
[19:33] <Upu> sonde killer ? :)
[19:34] <Upu> pics ?
[19:34] <OM1ATS> sonde killer is secret :)
[19:35] <craag> It's a pole with a bladed hook on the end right?
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> OM1ATS, cool!
[19:36] <OM1ATS> yes its rigth !
[19:36] <craag> Thrown up so it catches on the cord, then pulled down with an attached rope to sever the cord?
[19:36] <craag> At least that was what I got from past pics
[19:37] <Upu> nice
[19:37] <craag> Looked into it for trying to rescue mine, but trying to hit a 10cm piece of cord at 18m would be hard :/
[19:38] <OM1ATS> fishing rod + telescop pole, Radim send more photos.
[19:38] <Upu> super
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> russss, so you watched the Challenger movie?
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[19:39] <Upu> hi
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> did you see the challenger movie too?
[19:40] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Guys! I've been looking a little more into powering everything so I made a circuit diagram. It's a real messed up quick diagram but it shows what I thought would need to happen in the circuit. I don't think it's right but you could have a look: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rhf9svdur2sv508/power.png
[19:40] <ibanezmatt13> it only concerns power
[19:42] <daveake> I don't recall the GPIO pin numbers but that looks correct
[19:42] <chrisstubbs> yeah the pin numbers look right
[19:42] <chrisstubbs> you can power it from the +5v and GND lines on the header too
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> can you draw 60 mA from the pin?
[19:43] <daveake> yes
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> that is good
[19:43] <ibanezmatt13> as you previously mentioned, the GPS needs over 100mA but the pins cannot give that, so. What did we say before about this?
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> the GPS needs 60 mA in the sarantel version according to my measurements last summer
[19:44] <daveake> "pins cannot give this" = not true
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> Sorry, i meant continuously
[19:44] <daveake> still not true
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> really?
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> an arduino can't supply that, as they only output 50 mA max
[19:44] <daveake> It's a Pi
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> what's the max on a pi?
[19:45] <chrisstubbs> The GPIO pins cant, but the power rails can
[19:45] <chrisstubbs> GPIO header is a bit of a misleading name
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> I didn't know that. That makes good sense
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, I know, I only wanted to point out the difference
[19:45] <daveake> Right, as Chris said "GPIO" is a bit confusing
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> Would I use the 3.3v for the GPS and 5v for the radio?
[19:45] <daveake> The GPIO *connector* has 5V and 3V
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> you can use 3.3V for both
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> if you like
[19:46] <daveake> 5V is limited by your external PSU
[19:46] <chrisstubbs> "The maximum permitted current draw from the 3.3 V pins is 50 mA. "
[19:46] <daveake> 3.3V is limited by the 3.3V regulator
[19:46] <OM1ATS> This is my STS-3 path http://imageshack.us/a/img35/1066/sts3eg.jpg
[19:46] <daveake> Nominally on a model B it's 50mA left after everything else. In practice you can draw enough for a UBlox no problem
[19:46] <chrisstubbs> OM1ATS, thats a neat bit of software!
[19:46] <daveake> On a model A there's lots more free
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> so I can parallel the radio and gps on the 3.3v pin on the pi?
[19:47] <daveake> Rough guess 400mA
[19:47] <daveake> You can but the NTX2 is happy on 5V or 3.3V
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> would it not make any difference?
[19:48] <daveake> I'd put it on 5V as that's probably a cleaner line, however it has its own regulator so it probably doesn't make a noticeable difference
[19:48] <ibanezmatt13> so is the circuit in my rather awful diagram ok?
[19:48] <daveake> It's fine
[19:48] <ibanezmatt13> that's good! :)
[19:49] <craag> chrisstubbs: That software is RadioMobile btw, great for plotting rf links and coverage.
[19:49] <ibanezmatt13> I'm still undecided on which GPS module I'm gonna get. There are 3 on the HAB supplies store which look OK, but I'm still undecided.
[19:50] <chrisstubbs> craag, i like their website
[19:51] <craag> chrisstubbs: Yeah... website is from 1980s... software looks like 90s, but the simulation maths in it is sound.
[19:51] <lz1dev> http://i.imgur.com/Mpbe5bW.jpg
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> Is the Sarantel antenna the best for the GPS
[19:52] <chrisstubbs> you have to create your own installation directory, what is this!
[19:52] <chrisstubbs> but yeah I tried to make a simalar tool in PHP with the google elevation API
[19:52] <chrisstubbs> not pretty
[19:52] <craag> chrisstubbs: There's an online version if you just want coverage plots.
[19:52] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: you probably want one on a breakout board and there's probably only one that's actually suitable for use with the pi
[19:53] <daveake> Sarantel are more sensitive and/or less susceptible to noise than the chip antenna
[19:53] <craag> chrisstubbs: http://www.cplus.org/rmw/rmonline.html
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: i've been looking at these: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_60
[19:53] <chrisstubbs> Neat :)
[19:53] <daveake> And you want the one that runs from 3.3V power/logic
[19:54] <ibanezmatt13> this one runs from 3.3v http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> doesn't Upu have a model that you can run at 5 V?
[19:56] <craag> Lunar_Lander: Yes, but the Pi uses 3.3V serial.
[19:56] <mfa298> Lunar_Lander: there is one for 5v logic but ibanezmatt13 is using a pi with 3.3v logic
[19:56] <daveake> Yes but that would be the wrong one
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> ok, that I didn't think of
[19:57] <mfa298> heh, three answers for the price of one. You get good deals in this channel!
[19:57] <ibanezmatt13> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51 so this would be fine for 3.3v
[19:57] <ibanezmatt13> ?
[19:57] <Upu> yep
[19:57] <Upu> it would
[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, did you see the feynman-challenger movie?
[19:58] <Upu> I did yes
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> excellent! thanks
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> do you know who played the role of that chairman?
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[19:58] <Upu> I didn't notice no
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> he seems to be the guy who was the Sheriff in Rambo First Blood
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> and the idiot commander in Rambo II
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> like he always gets the bad roles
[19:59] <Upu> having seen neither I can understand why it didn't jump out at me
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> sad that the BBC has no cast list on the film's website
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[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
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[20:03] <S_Mark> Hello
[20:03] <Upu> evening
[20:03] <chrisstubbs> S_Mark, photosphotosphotosphotosphotos ;)
[20:03] <S_Mark> lol
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:04] <S_Mark> They are uploaded, Cassie just working on a post
[20:04] <chrisstubbs> Nice :)
[20:04] <S_Mark> Whilst you are all here lol - maths time
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, one last thing from eurovision if you like
[20:04] <S_Mark> I have every sentence transmitted saved on my SD card
[20:05] <S_Mark> I want to work out the rate of ascent / decent
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fgLrfi9JCI check this :)
[20:05] <S_Mark> is it a case of extrapalating per second the difference in altitude?
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> usually the altitude curve is linear
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> so velocity is constant
[20:07] <S_Mark> ok, excel the best tool for this??
[20:07] <daveake> You just need time/alt shortly before burst, and ditto shortly after launch
[20:08] <daveake> (alt2-alt1)/(t2-t1) sorted
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[20:08] <chrisstubbs> an ascent rate / altitude graph would be interesting
[20:08] <daveake> no need for Excel
[20:08] <daveake> sure
[20:08] <daveake> It'll be a straight line :)
[20:08] <daveake> Pretty much
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:08] <S_Mark> so that would give me ascent, nice and easy.
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> and then a big jump on burst
[20:09] <S_Mark> what about decent
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> and a decaying exponential
[20:09] <daveake> btw Lunar I'm famous in Germany now :p
[20:09] <bertrik> S_Mark: did you figure out the software problem from earlier this weekend?
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, cool, how comes?
[20:10] <daveake> I'm in the Pi article in Linux für Profis
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[20:11] <chrisstubbs> descent rate is what i meant on the graph, to see how the air density affects the parachute
[20:11] <daveake> What do you mean, you haven't seen it yet? ;)
[20:11] <S_Mark> Hi bertrik, it was a very weird one. I was getting different results when I was flashing the same code to the Arduino
[20:11] <S_Mark> Was like it wasnt being cleared, so I resorted to flashing the blink example and then my code
[20:11] <S_Mark> not good
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[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, yea decaying exponential
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[20:24] <MickyMondo> Anthony ... you there..?
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[20:26] <MickMondo> Hi all
[20:26] <chrisstubbs> lolwhut my payload traveled in time
[20:27] <MickMondo> Upu are you about ...?
[20:28] <chrisstubbs> http://imgur.com/2Dt6RNI look at the time underneath the selected cell
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[20:29] <bertrik> your sequence numbers are swapped too
[20:29] <lz1dev> just sort them
[20:30] <chrisstubbs> well spotted
[20:30] <chrisstubbs> how did that happen
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[20:40] <MickMondo> Hi all
[20:41] <fsphil> yoyo
[20:42] <MickMondo> Is Upu on here ..?
[20:42] <Upu> hey Mick
[20:42] <Upu> fire up your payload
[20:43] <Upu> upload some strings lets see whats up
[20:43] <MickMondo> lol,,, Hi ya... its up and running,,, I seem to remember a problem with this before
[20:44] <MickMondo> heres an EG .. $$MONDO-1,014,20:21:54,+5132.9796,+00038.0654,00058,000.3,000.0,00.0,+29,100*67
[20:44] <Upu> checking
[20:44] <fsphil> still on that 8-bit checksum :)
[20:44] <MickMondo> Ha Ha arrrrrrrr yes
[20:45] <Upu> you need to fix that :)
[20:45] <Upu> ok
[20:45] <Upu> [2013-05-20 20:44:47,017] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: All attempts to parse failed
[20:45] <Upu> [2013-05-20 20:44:47,016] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: CantExtractCallsign exception in simple_binary: CantExtractCallsign
[20:45] <Upu> [2013-05-20 20:44:47,016] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: CantParse exception in UKHAS: CantParse
[20:45] <Upu> [2013-05-20 20:44:47,016] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: Parsing [b64] 'JCRNT05ETy0xLDA4MiwyMDo0NDoyMSwrNTEzMi45ODAzLCswMDAzOC4wNjg0LDAwMDU5LDAwMC4wLDAxOS41AAAsMDAuMiwrMzUsMTAwKjY3Cg==' (c9c9b787525dbbea0ada9fce74fad300553a195e9c1967cf5b234790ac4f51cb) from MONDO
[20:45] <Upu> [2013-05-20 20:44:28,591] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: All attempts to parse failed
[20:45] <Upu> now if I recall someone said you were transmitting some non-printable characters or something
[20:45] <MickMondo> Fix what
[20:45] <Upu> are you transmitting some nulls ?
[20:45] <Upu> XOR check sum
[20:45] <jonsowman> yeah there were some nulls
[20:45] <Upu> but later
[20:45] <jonsowman> lz1dev in #habhub
[20:45] <Upu> ah jonsowman is probably your man
[20:46] <MickMondo> Ok cheers
[20:46] <jonsowman> if you b64 decode that data you'll probably find some non-ascii chars
[20:46] <jonsowman> if it's the same problem as last time
[20:47] <fsphil> MDo0N .. neary
[20:47] <fsphil> nearly*
[20:47] <jonsowman> MickMondo: for example, in this sentence
[20:47] <jonsowman> $$MONDO-1,088,20:46:21,+5132.9777,+00038.0648,00057,000.1,019.5,-00.1,+35,100*42
[20:47] <lz1dev> MickMondo: after 019.5
[20:47] <lz1dev> there are 2 nulls
[20:47] <jonsowman> yeah
[20:48] <lz1dev> 0000030: 3035 392c 3030 302e 302c 3031 392e 3500 059,000.0,019.5.
[20:48] <lz1dev> 0000040: 002c 3030 2e32 2c2b 3335 2c31 3030 2a36 .,00.2,+35,100*6
[20:48] <jonsowman> http://pastie.org/private/qtsiifi7ikegbq1wiqrg
[20:48] <lz1dev> haha
[20:48] <jonsowman> i've no idea why your code is doing that but that's why it won't decode
[20:48] <lz1dev> we did the same thing
[20:48] <jonsowman> haha yep
[20:49] <jonsowman> great minds ;)
[20:49] <MickMondo> lol,,, Ok I'll check it out, cheers for that
[20:49] <jonsowman> no problem
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[21:12] <Willdude123> Hi
[21:13] number10 (569e9134@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.158.145.52) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[21:14] <Willdude123> Anyone around?
[21:14] <Willdude123> erooomde: What was that Carus thing you suggested I read?
[21:15] <fsphil> just us invisible people
[21:16] <mfa298> nope, im not here, honest
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[21:24] <eroomde> Willdude123: Camus
[21:24] <eroomde> albert camus
[21:24] <eroomde> he wrote a book called l'etranger
[21:25] <eroomde> or The Stranger
[21:25] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[21:26] <Willdude123> K
[21:27] <Willdude123> Any good?
[21:27] <eroomde> yes
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[21:30] <Willdude123> Must be in the pub
[21:30] <Willdude123> Lic domain
[21:30] <Willdude123> Lol
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[21:39] <cuddykid> at last flickr have updated their old interface
[21:40] <S_Mark> have they?
[21:40] <cuddykid> yep, much better - a new grid layour
[21:40] <daveake> about time
[21:41] <S_Mark> everyone gets a terabyte
[21:41] <S_Mark> !?
[21:41] <cuddykid> looks like it!
[21:41] <cuddykid> so glad they've removed the limit, that was plain annoying
[21:41] <cuddykid> "You have a Flickr account where you get a free terabyte of space for original photos and HD videos"
[21:42] <cuddykid> yep
[21:42] <fsphil> so what do Pro users get now?
[21:42] <S_Mark> thats amazing
[21:42] <daveake> I'm glad you mentioned the change; if I'd seen the new site without being told, I'd think it'd been hacked
[21:42] <lz1dev> lol
[21:42] <fsphil> it's not like Yahoo to improve something
[21:42] <lz1dev> thats true
[21:43] <Randomskk> maybe it's to make up for buying tumblr
[21:43] <cuddykid> yahoo seem to be going on a drive to make stuff better
[21:43] <lz1dev> they mostly buy things
[21:43] <Randomskk> or like, a pre-apology
[21:43] <Randomskk> "sorry about fucking up tumblr. here's mor space for your flickr."
[21:43] <cuddykid> ha
[21:43] <daveake> I note with amusement that articles today about the Tumblr takeover included quotes along the lines of "We won't ruin it. Promise"
[21:43] <lz1dev> i thought thumblr was pretty good at whats it beeing used for
[21:43] <S_Mark> haha I saw that
[21:43] <Randomskk> hmm
[21:43] <Randomskk> Pro: unlimited storage
[21:43] <Randomskk> Free: 1Tb
[21:43] <Randomskk> uh, TB
[21:43] <Randomskk> choices choices
[21:44] <cuddykid> hardly a reason to go pro
[21:44] <daveake> hah
[21:44] <Randomskk> I've been pro for years
[21:44] <daveake> ditto
[21:44] <daveake> 2 I think :)
[21:44] <Randomskk> the 200-photo limit was fairly significant
[21:44] <daveake> yup
[21:44] <Randomskk> but I'm not even close to 1TB of data
[21:44] <cuddykid> yeah, I was tempted
[21:44] <Randomskk> and I already have an ad blocker
[21:44] <daveake> me neither
[21:44] <Randomskk> so no ads isn't much of a biggie either
[21:44] <Randomskk> $24/year for "detailed stats" basically then
[21:44] <lz1dev> everybody love stats
[21:44] <daveake> Well that's $24/annum saved then :)
[21:47] <cuddykid> still think they could make it easier to upload photos - I love imgurs drag and drop straight onto the page
[21:48] <daveake> If only imgur actually worked
[21:48] <daveake> Very temperamental IME
[21:48] <cuddykid> oh - flickr have a drag and drop too I've just found - happy days
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[21:50] <eroomde> i like their tiling
[21:50] <chrisstubbs> ahh the login page is still just as bad
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[21:54] <cuddykid> yes, login is still awful!
[21:57] <chrisstubbs> Double your Flickr fun with an additional 1 terabyte of space - $499.99/year
[21:57] <cuddykid> what?!?!?
[21:57] <chrisstubbs> http://www.flickr.com/account/upgrade
[21:57] <cuddykid> how outrageous
[21:58] <chrisstubbs> you could get 5x 3tb hard drives for that
[21:58] <cuddykid> surely that must be a typo
[21:58] <cuddykid> they must mean $49.99
[21:58] <cuddykid> even then, that's quite a bit
[21:59] <chrisstubbs> $49.99 for ad free
[21:59] <chrisstubbs> this is making me sad, better close the page
[22:00] <cuddykid> adblocker does the trick :)
[22:00] <cuddykid> for free :D
[22:00] <chrisstubbs> yeah
[22:00] <chrisstubbs> Dont even realise what your missing until you use someone elses computer
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[22:01] <mfa298> doing storage at an enterprise level tends to cost more than just buying a couple of SATA drives - although a lot of that goes into backing it up which flickr probably dont do for your data
[22:01] <cuddykid> yep
[22:01] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, true
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[22:02] <chrisstubbs> suppose someone has to pay for all the free storage
[22:02] <chrisstubbs> and its not a typo, its the same on the detials page
[22:03] <Randomskk> oh
[22:03] <Randomskk> "Pro" is no longer a thing
[22:03] <Randomskk> but if you're currently Pro, youc an keep it
[22:03] <Randomskk> for the same price
[22:04] <mfa298> a couple of years I think the rough figure people would use for enterprise storage was around £1k/TB but that was for enterprise SAS and included backups and the rest of the infrastructure (Disk enclosures, FC switches etc)
[22:04] <chrisstubbs> Its yahoo
[22:04] <chrisstubbs> they probably daisychined 30000 USB hubs
[22:05] <chrisstubbs> and loads of external HDD's
[22:05] <chrisstubbs> 1k/TB is crazy!
[22:05] <mfa298> if you think of the costs of backing it up that's a good proportion of it.
[22:06] <chrisstubbs> yeah true
[22:06] <mfa298> Plus the hardware costs a fair bit when you're into FC and disk enclosures.
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
[22:06] <mfa298> At that level you have racks just full of disk enclosures with lots of disks in.
[22:07] <chrisstubbs> FC fibre?
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[22:07] <mfa298> Fibre Channel
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[22:08] <cuddykid> "chrisstubbs: they probably daisychined 30000 USB hubs" lol
[22:09] <mfa298> I think that's what the accountants would like IT folks to do for storage.
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[22:13] <chrisstubbs> max 127 ports, thats no fun
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[22:14] <mfa298> you'll need a lot of USB controllers for that.
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[22:18] <chrisstubbs> http://bit.ly/13CN55Q
[22:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> And now with all those high res photo's the media companies will download and strip the metadata and use your photo's for free!
[22:19] <mfa298> I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of Yahoo / Flickr etc. use the likes of the Sun Thumper server (http://techreport.com/blog/13849/behold-thumper-sun-sunfire-x4500-storage-server)
[22:19] <mfa298> 48 internal hard drives
[22:22] <mfa298> hmmm, I wonder how much one of those costs 2nd hand these days.
[22:23] <nigelvh> I'm sure they use SAN arrays
[22:23] <nigelvh> The Dell EqualLogic arrays are pretty popular.
[22:24] <craag> mfa298: Impressive bit of kit!
[22:24] <mfa298> nigelvh: I suspect the same as well. With the amount of users pretty much anything else will struggle with the random access
[22:24] <nigelvh> Yes.
[22:24] <nigelvh> Plus the sheer scalability of size.
[22:24] <mfa298> Thumper (Sun X4500) is pretty old now. Although a nice way to get lots of storage in a single server.
[22:25] <craag> mfa298: It's a fantastically simple, cheap and high-bandwidth IO structure.
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[22:26] <craag> (I've got a comp. architecture exam next week feat. Opterons+HT)
[22:27] <mattbrejza> did denis bother teaching transparent latches this year?
[22:27] <mfa298> SAN arrays have got better in the last few years with dense trays and starting to use SATA for low performance storage as well as more intellegence to put data on suitable speed drives.
[22:27] <craag> mattbrejza: Briefly, but I don't think it's in the exam.
[22:27] <mattbrejza> well he didnt teach it to us
[22:28] <mattbrejza> still came up...
[22:28] <craag> Ah, I remember him mentioning that now!
[22:28] <craag> He did say he wasn't planning to question it. But he only wrote the papers last week, so who knows...
[22:29] <mfa298> I seem to recall (many years ago) having a revision lesson with Denis when he covered the material for a different module that he didn't teach.
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[22:29] <K9JKM> ... the actual art arises from convincing your management they should pay money for that performance
[22:29] <mattbrejza> he does have to confirm with the class what he has actually turned up to teach
[22:29] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[22:29] <craag> Yep, has got 20 minutes into comp. arch. teaching realtime a couple of times now
[22:30] <mfa298> K9JKM: Managment, customers/users and almost anyone who doesn't understand storage.
[22:30] <craag> Rather similar, so you just get all the comp-sci students looking confused.
[22:30] <K9JKM> Yeah, just tell 'em it will be fast and they can find everything everytime
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[22:44] <mfa298> hmmm, you've got to love Solaris package names, I've just installed one called SUNWccccrr
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[23:21] <Laurenceb_> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=26952.60
[23:21] <Laurenceb_> lolz
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=42142 madness
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> sigh
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> heh that looks like a clone board
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> insanely cheap
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> http://jeelabs.org/2012/09/14/another-embedded-ecosystem/
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> clone of that
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> nasaspaceflight forum doesnt like the electric rocket idea :P
[23:28] <Laurenceb_> http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/20/arduino-yun-weds-arduino-wifi-and-linux-at-maker-faire-2013/
[23:28] Action: Laurenceb_ was playing with silly maths
[23:28] <Laurenceb_> i found Sciamas original 1958 tensor gravity paper and put in modern data
[23:29] <Laurenceb_> result : density of universe is out by 13% from current value
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> dark mutterings.
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> electric rocket?
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> you mean resistojet?
[23:31] <Laurenceb_> no, electric pump
[23:31] <Laurenceb_> http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/astro/denpar.html
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> or electrically ...
[23:31] <Laurenceb_> ^basically that
[23:32] <Laurenceb_> i get Ác,0 = 8.21 x 10-27 kg/m3
[23:32] Action: SpeedEvil has no clue.
[23:32] <Laurenceb_> WMAP indicates universe is under critical density...
[23:32] <Laurenceb_> so no big crunch
[23:32] <Laurenceb_> and Sciamas original equation holds
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> many people don't realise how awesome modern brush less motors run close to melting can be
[23:32] <Laurenceb_> he thought it gave unreasonable values...
[23:33] <Laurenceb_> tl;dr : Mach effect might be real
[23:35] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[23:35] <Randomskk> I thought the tl;dr was that they are crazy
[23:36] <Laurenceb_> someone has got to have thought to look at this before...
[23:36] <Laurenceb_> well i decided to bypass the crazy
[23:36] <Randomskk> yay, my distributed opencl edge detection works
[23:36] <Laurenceb_> take the original non crazy paper and apply modern data
[23:36] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/edge_detect_2.png
[23:36] <Randomskk> ah
[23:36] <Laurenceb_> nice, but can you find a way to line fit without loads of gaps?
[23:37] <Randomskk> don't need to
[23:37] <Laurenceb_> ive never seen how to do that properly
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[23:37] <Randomskk> for my purposes
[23:37] <Laurenceb_> lol
[23:37] <Randomskk> though there are good algorithms
[23:37] <Randomskk> none that are easy to write on a gpu admittedly
[23:37] <Laurenceb_> i was trying to find polygons with different number of faces within a scene
[23:37] <Laurenceb_> i see
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> so anyways, i grabbed the 1958 paper and applied WMAP data
[23:38] <Randomskk> though counting connected edges would be nice
[23:38] <Randomskk> right
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> it agrees nicely
[23:38] <Randomskk> hmm
[23:38] <Randomskk> maybe you should write a paper
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> heh
[23:38] <Randomskk> use huge fonts and publish the pdf on your own website
[23:38] <Randomskk> colours and comic sans too
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> lol
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> the maths is pretty basic
[23:39] <Laurenceb_> grab a bunch of equations i dont understand and put the numbers in
[23:40] <Laurenceb_> already done: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Starships-Stargates-Interstellar-Exploration/dp/1461456223
[23:40] <Laurenceb_> or from the more sane angle, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalar-tensor_theory
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[23:41] <SpeedEvil> if you make a reactionless thruster that works, can I buy a couple? I hate putting up shelves. Sky-rawlplugs.
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[23:43] Action: Laurenceb_ zzz
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> night
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[00:00] --- Tue May 21 2013