highaltitude.log.20130517

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[00:48] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/ual91-2013-05-17-close-call-weather-balloon.jpg :O
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[00:52] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/ual91-2013-05-17-close-call-weather-balloon-crossed-paths.jpg
[00:57] <jarod> they were minutes apart :O
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[05:21] <Maxell> jarod: same height?
[05:26] <jarod> at some point almost
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[05:52] <x-f> good morning, everyone.
[05:52] <Upu> morning x-f
[06:11] <x-f> as a follow-up to my yesterday's question - i connected a LiPo with 3.6V to the NCP1402 board and got 3.5V on the output. this was kind of within the limits of my Arduino clone (3.3V, 8 MHz), i hooked it up, it worked and i had 3.3V on NCP1402's output, so i assume all should be fine running on two Lithium AAs.
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[06:26] <KF7FER> Upu you have a moment?
[06:26] <KF7FER> I got back a set of PCBs from the fab that looked like https://www.dropbox.com/s/i7t03rycc9c9bqx/holy.jpg
[06:27] <KF7FER> those holes _should_ be covered in soldermask - or they always have before
[06:27] <KF7FER> do you think those PCBs would be ok to use? (I'm thinking the MAX-6 docs say no unfilled vias under the GPS)
[06:28] <Darkside> it'll be fine
[06:29] <KF7FER> ok, thanks! of course.... and isn't there always an "of course"?
[06:29] <KF7FER> I effed up and moved the HX1 a bit and ended up with a ground via under the 5v line and well... instant short to ground <sigh>
[06:29] <KF7FER> $35 worth of coasters
[06:30] <KF7FER> so I couldn't use the boards but I was really worried about the unfilled vias
[06:31] <KF7FER> I won't worry if it happens again, thanks
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[06:36] <steve_____> morning
[06:37] <steve_____> does anyone have a time for the SCI-1 launch today?
[06:41] <eroomde> filled vias are quite gucci!
[06:41] <eroomde> is it definitely the same drill size as before KF7FER?
[06:42] <KF7FER> yes. same eagle files as well. every time before (10x) they've been filled
[06:42] <KF7FER> I was told they are trying different fabs
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[06:43] <eroomde> might have just been luck
[06:44] <eroomde> in my experienced filled vias is definitely not the norm
[06:44] <KF7FER> really? I got 2x sets back from the same fab and they were 100% filled
[06:44] <KF7FER> waiting for the next batch
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[06:44] <KF7FER> well 100% meaning all the small vias
[06:45] <KF7FER> the larger ones were still open
[06:45] <KF7FER> larger > 20mils
[06:46] <KF7FER> maybe I'm just lucky. But then again, my old boss always said "better lucky than good"
[06:46] <KF7FER> that's me :-)
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[06:52] <KT5TK> My vias are also filled: http://kt5tk.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/pecanpico3.jpg
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[06:53] <KT5TK> Don't think either case is a problem
[06:56] <UpuWork> hi Brad
[06:57] <UpuWork> just reading back
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[06:57] <UpuWork> hard to see on the pics , vias not tented under the ublox ?
[06:58] <eroomde> they're tented, it looks like
[06:58] <eroomde> but not filled
[06:59] <UpuWork> My first NEO board failed on tented vias but still worked
[06:59] <eroomde> i.e. they don;t have an exposed anulus of copper, like the pad of a PTH part
[06:59] <eroomde> that's quite normal
[06:59] <eroomde> but KF7FER seems to have lucked out with getting filled vias in the past too
[06:59] <UpuWork> oh filled ?
[06:59] <UpuWork> don't think I've ever had filled ones
[06:59] <KF7FER> hey... no copper. but I guess I'm surprised, I've done at least a dozen orders with them totally filled
[06:59] <UpuWork> hard to tell I use 0.3mm holes
[07:00] <UpuWork> hang on I'll grab a few boards and see
[07:00] <KF7FER> my vias are 13mils
[07:00] <UpuWork> filed it under don't worry it will work fine
[07:01] <KF7FER> good enough for me. but not nearly as purdy ;-)
[07:01] <UpuWork> none of mine have been filled
[07:01] <UpuWork> tented yes
[07:01] <UpuWork> filled no
[07:01] <KF7FER> so maybe it's better lucky than good?
[07:02] <UpuWork> well I would expect you'd have to ask the fab explicitly to fill them
[07:02] <KF7FER> really this is the exception. I didn't know better
[07:02] <KF7FER> now I do. This is truly the place of wonder and education
[07:02] <UpuWork> anyway
[07:03] <UpuWork> makes it lighter
[07:03] <UpuWork> I'll ask Mitch when he wakes up
[07:03] <KF7FER> unless your a dumbass and short 5v to ground. In which case it makes it smokier ;-)
[07:03] <UpuWork> can you fix it with a scalpel ?
[07:03] <KF7FER> maybe not. I didn't try
[07:04] <KF7FER> well maybe... but really ugly and would you pay money for a board hacked like that?
[07:04] <UpuWork> no but as a prototype
[07:04] <UpuWork> just to prove the rest works
[07:05] <KF7FER> well too bad I know the design works... I just messed up an improvement
[07:05] <UpuWork> fair enough
[07:05] <KF7FER> I was just curious if it made a difference. I see it doesn't
[07:05] <KF7FER> that's almost worth the $38 coasters. Almost ;-)
[07:05] <UpuWork> well could be worse
[07:06] <KF7FER> speaking of worse... do you use reflow to make your boards?
[07:06] <UpuWork> no hand soldered
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[07:07] <KF7FER> nice. Very impressive.
[07:08] <KF7FER> I'm having reflow issues... not enough capilary action (I can't spell, sorry)
[07:08] <UpuWork> don't have to apologise to me for spelling
[07:08] <eroomde> what are you using to cook them>
[07:08] <eroomde> ?
[07:09] <KF7FER> Basically it's http://www.instructables.com/id/Closing-the-Loop-on-Surface-Mount-Soldering/
[07:09] <KF7FER> but I'm using a teensy 2.0 to control the plate
[07:09] <UpuWork> oh hot plate
[07:09] <UpuWork> I tried that
[07:09] <KF7FER> problems?
[07:10] <UpuWork> not great results
[07:10] <UpuWork> don't think it got hot enough
[07:10] <UpuWork> Ed's toaster works
[07:10] <eroomde> mmm
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[07:10] <KT5TK> I also use hot plate and low melting paste
[07:10] <eroomde> i use a toaster oven and a controller
[07:11] <KT5TK> Key is to heat up slowly
[07:11] <eroomde> thw results are pretty good
[07:11] <eroomde> well, i think the proper profile is important and not necessarily just slowly
[07:11] <eroomde> because you don;t want to boil off all the flux too soon
[07:11] <KF7FER> I do the 100 pre-heat and then do the 180 degree preheat... but I'm a bit slow to hit 180 within 2mins
[07:12] <KF7FER> well 100 to start then preheat to 180
[07:12] <KF7FER> I think my problem is I need to make sure the parts are more precisely aligned
[07:12] <KT5TK> Probably my plate heats up very fast. Flux never burns away
[07:13] <eroomde> yes aligment helps a lot
[07:13] <eroomde> and using a stencil
[07:13] <eroomde> too much paste can cause lots of problems
[07:13] <KF7FER> esp w/ a 10pin SON I imagine ;-)
[07:13] <KF7FER> I'm 99% sure that's my latest problem - I've been too sloppy
[07:14] <KF7FER> haven't made sure about alignment during parts placement
[07:14] <eroomde> it's especially tricksy for QFNs
[07:15] <KF7FER> I'm using a stencil but it's really small... so I suspect it's me. Thank goodness no QFN's here ;-)
[07:15] <eroomde> i have just made some small boards with QFNs
[07:15] <eroomde> results were ok but i think i need to remake my stencil jig
[07:15] <eroomde> to be a bit more precise
[07:15] <KF7FER> what do you do for a stencil?
[07:16] <eroomde> get one made by the fab house from stainless
[07:16] <KF7FER> nice.
[07:17] <KF7FER> I just got a set in kapton from http://ohararp.com/Stencils.html
[07:17] <KF7FER> not bad if you can batch your order
[07:17] <KF7FER> I wish they were stainless but....
[07:19] <eroomde> this is the one i did this week
[07:19] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/znxeaixm3xlpzbi/2013-05-15%2012.45.25.jpg
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[07:20] <KF7FER> nice. so what's the transmitter?
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[07:22] <eroomde> it's a receiver
[07:22] <eroomde> for gps singals
[07:24] <KF7FER> I see. So two antenna connectors?
[07:24] <griffonbot> Received email: Alan Oakden "Re: [UKHAS] First Launch - Sci1"
[07:24] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve "[UKHAS] Re: First Launch - Sci1"
[07:24] <eroomde> one is an alternative clock input
[07:25] <eroomde> so i can sample the gps freqs with sevral receivers at once from a single clock
[07:25] <KF7FER> explains the odd connector then
[07:25] <eroomde> which lets you experiment with gps attitude stuff
[07:25] <KF7FER> you can fake - err, test - different altitudes?
[07:26] <SpeedEvil> attitude
[07:26] <SpeedEvil> orientation
[07:26] <UpuWork> Darkside has a GPS tester that can do that KF7FER
[07:26] <KF7FER> oops... just one extra t. gonna be picky?
[07:26] <SpeedEvil> you compare the differential position of n antennas and solve for orientation
[07:26] <eroomde> pitch/roll/yaw rather than lat/lon/alt
[07:27] <SpeedEvil> n>1
[07:27] <KF7FER> nice. I bit more than the "see spot run" stuff I'm looking at then
[07:27] <KF7FER> I=a sorry
[07:28] <SpeedEvil> well, n=1 may get you something, from signal strength and phase
[07:28] <KF7FER> so MAXIM has a single-chip GPS solution then?
[07:28] <eroomde> it's an rf front end
[07:29] <eroomde> so it mixes the gps freq (1.5ish ghz) down to about 4mhz
[07:29] <eroomde> then has a 1-bit adc which samples it and spits it out
[07:29] <eroomde> you have to then make the receiver
[07:31] <KF7FER> I'll get right on it ;-)
[07:31] <KF7FER> (quick response, eh?)
[07:31] <eroomde> :)
[07:32] <KF7FER> I'm still looking at the pic. Real nice board.
[07:32] <eroomde> well if you can get the sampled bits into a pc then it becomes just a software problem
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[07:32] <fsphil> always a better place to be
[07:32] <SpeedEvil> I was wondering about the pi for this a bit ago
[07:33] <eroomde> here it is plugged into my fpga dev board
[07:33] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ff9v02f3hcjvneu/2013-05-15%2012.52.11.jpg
[07:33] <SpeedEvil> beagkebone may be easier
[07:33] <fsphil> it seems ackward to get a lot of data into the Pi
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[07:33] <eroomde> yeah i'm sure you could fit it onto something like that
[07:34] <SpeedEvil> it can do DMA in
[07:34] <fsphil> other than USB, which doesn't seem reliable
[07:34] <eroomde> beaglebone has NEON too which will help
[07:34] <fsphil> through the GPIO?
[07:34] <SpeedEvil> yes
[07:34] <fsphil> ah
[07:34] <fsphil> now that could be useful
[07:35] <radim_OM2AMR> sorry guys for STS-3 disturbance in tracker, I ran filtered view and didn't saw, that is cleared already :-(
[07:35] <SpeedEvil> http://pythonhosted.org/RPIO/pwm_py.html
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[07:36] <fsphil> might be able to do reliable rtty with that
[07:36] <fsphil> although probably too fast
[07:36] <UpuWork> fixed radim_OM2AMR
[07:37] <radim_OM2AMR> thanks UpuWork, I'm very sorry
[07:37] <SpeedEvil> DMA works great for example controlling >>2 servos
[07:37] <UpuWork> no problems Radim
[07:38] <fsphil> could I setup that to sample 8-bit parallel data straight into memory?
[07:38] <SpeedEvil> as I understand it, yes
[07:38] <SpeedEvil> but I've not gone into any detail
[07:41] <SpeedEvil> sprite_tm over on #df3120 did some stuff on this
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[07:51] <radim_OM2AMR> HEllo OE1FEA
[07:51] <OE1FEA> hi @ll
[07:53] <radim_OM2AMR> could you decode STS-3 tomorrow ? We will launch near Bratislava - from OM1ATS QTH, see spacenear.us
[07:53] <OE1FEA> being a little confused: there are no balloons or cars at http://spacenear.us/tracker ???
[07:53] <radim_OM2AMR> tracker is cleaned for upcoming flight now
[07:54] <OE1FEA> yes, i will try STS-3 tomorrow
[07:54] <OE1FEA> but I'm a newbie .... hope, I make all right :)
[07:54] <radim_OM2AMR> OE1FEA, we will launch at 9UTC cca
[07:55] <OE1FEA> ok 11:00 local time
[07:55] <radim_OM2AMR> right, approximately :-)
[07:55] <radim_OM2AMR> we'll try to be there on irc
[07:56] <OE1FEA> I'm sitting in the south of Vienna on a hill called Wienerberg. Have a X50 on the roof (works with Bratislava) and a 70mc Moxon
[07:57] <radim_OM2AMR> great conds, so you have a chance to hear it
[07:59] <OE1FEA> Now the Moxon is directed 303° to Leeds. Will try to capture some pakets, when SCI-1 / AVA ??? HAB is @ burst heigth .... maybe .. 1.400 km ...
[08:03] <OE1FEA> Radim, will you make also an english or german project site of your sts-project?
[08:05] <radim_OM2AMR> OE1FEA, great idea, maybe english version sometimes. Now please try to use google translate.
[08:05] <OE1FEA> ;)
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[08:08] <OE1FEA> I'm preparing for my first launch in the autumn. mybe, there are some things to share ... ;)
[08:10] <radim_OM2AMR> realy, great, we can meet together if you wish, I'm working in Bratislava, it's no so far from Wien
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[08:12] <OE1FEA> Radiim. in Bratislava you can connect to R82-Kahlenberg (438.950) relais?
[08:13] <radim_OM2AMR> I'll try it, but I'm at home today - see the spacenear map :-) Near Piestany
[08:21] <OE1FEA> From Piestany no connect to Kahlenberg? Uses CTTS 162,2 Hz to open relais ....
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[08:24] <OE1FEA> Radim, asking for some flight parametes: ascending, descanding rates, burst heigth ...
[08:27] <OE1FEA> Radium, Your start time is shown in my google calendar at 13:00 local time ...???
[08:27] <radim_OM2AMR> OE1FEA, we can just estimate it as this is the mylar foil balloon, ascend rate, we hope about 1 m/s, descend rate is unknown, burst height - maybe 4000m, maybe less
[08:28] <OE1FEA> this is a zero pressure balloon?
[08:29] <radim_OM2AMR> hmm, something wrong with timezones maybe, I set 11 in Europe/Bratislava timezone if I'm right
[08:29] <radim_OM2AMR> yes, zero pressure Qualatex balloon from randomsolution
[08:31] <x-f> umm.. it's a superpressure balloon :)
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[08:31] <fsphil> zero pressures have a hole at the bottom
[08:31] <OE1FEA> maybe we have to put in UTC in calendar ...
[08:32] <NickB> got a question
[08:32] <NickB> I would like to fit two transmitting antennas to a payload using the same groundplane
[08:32] <NickB> is this adviceable?
[08:33] <lz1dev> two transmitters one antenna ?
[08:33] <NickB> no two seperate antennas
[08:33] <NickB> on the same groundplane
[08:33] <OE1FEA> no, this isn't easy, beacuase you have protect the not sending transmitter from HF ...
[08:33] <radim_OM2AMR> fsphil, :-D yes, good point, but currently is "zero" pressure in a box :-) if we can count normal pressure as zero
[08:33] <lz1dev> NickB: would be better to use one antenna and schedule the transmissions :)
[08:34] <NickB> there are two transmitters, each having an antenna
[08:34] <NickB> 434.650 and 343.240 as backup
[08:35] <NickB> *434
[08:35] <OE1FEA> NichB: better use 2 antennas ;)
[08:35] <NickB> yes they both have a seperate antenna
[08:35] <craag> NickB: With a bit of spacing between the radiating elements, that'd be fine.
[08:35] <NickB> ah ok
[08:35] <OE1FEA> or switch transmitter (if possible) between 2 frequencies
[08:36] <NickB> they are two seperate systems
[08:36] <NickB> Pi for SSDV and gps and a backup transmitter with gps
[08:37] <fsphil> you could have an antenna on top and another on bottom
[08:37] <radim_OM2AMR> NickB, we used it too, with two antennas and one common ground foil in the bottom of the box
[08:37] <NickB> ok
[08:38] <OE1FEA> bottom isn't sooo good, because back on earth, there will be near no radiation if stucks in bottom ...
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[08:38] <NickB> good idea fsphil
[08:38] <NickB> thx all
[08:39] <fsphil> there's usually enough signal even if it's on the ground, as long as you're fairly nearby
[08:39] <radim_OM2AMR> OE1FEA, bottom, but radiation elements were directed to the earth, so ground foil was on top of antenna in fact
[08:41] <OE1FEA> Radim, how good transmitt will work, when antennas stuck in earth after landing? ;)
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[08:42] <OE1FEA> hurray, SCI-1 back on screen ;)
[08:43] <radim_OM2AMR> OE1FEA, you should be fast enough to be nearby, when it lands :-) With 10mW you can hear it from 300m-500m distance with 5ele yagi.
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[08:45] <x-f> OE1FEA, antennas should deform easily to not cause any damage for ground objects (or subjects) on a misfortunate landing
[08:46] <OE1FEA> Radim, this wouldn't fit to my project. Will have only one hunting team and in the Alps it would be an impossible mission ;) So I take the antennas to the top (along with the ropes, if J-poles) or to the side ...
[08:46] <OE1FEA> x.f: so I preffere J-Poles (wire) fitted to the ropes on top ...
[08:46] <radim_OM2AMR> in the Alps ? there are no impossible missions :-D see AVA floater rescue :-)
[08:47] <fsphil> mine was impossible :)
[08:47] <fsphil> lost in a national park
[08:47] <fsphil> without an accurate location
[08:48] <OE1FEA> Yeah Radim ;) My first flight will be a test filight for APRS and RTTY systems. Also TCP/IP APRS tracker will on board (last backup for landing) ....
[08:48] <OE1FEA> will use both 144.800 and 70cm ,,,,
[08:50] <radim_OM2AMR> OE1FEA, great, we flown twice APRS/RTTY payload. When you will launch near Wien, you can easily fly to Slovakia. We are prepared to help you. We are chasing for radiosondes from Wien - Hohe Warte
[08:50] <OE1FEA> TCP/IP via free UMTS provider (drei.at)
[08:50] <fsphil> ( may be sending a payload your direction june or july
[08:51] <OE1FEA> Radim, with tracking the weathers sonds from ZAMG (Hohe Warte) I had still ni success :( give me some hints ;)
[08:51] <radim_OM2AMR> fsphil, great :-)
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[08:54] <radim_OM2AMR> OE1FEA, it's easy, try to tune in 400 - 405 MHz band, NFM. You should use sondemonitor app for decoding - you can find some details here radiosonda.sk (google translate again :-)
[08:56] <OE1FEA> tnx Radim, when (times) they start every day? 6 und 12 utc ?
[08:56] Ugi (5004924d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.4.146.77) joined #highaltitude.
[08:57] <Ugi> Hello UKHAS!
[08:57] <radim_OM2AMR> 11:40 and 23:40 UTC
[08:58] <fsphil> yo Ugi
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[08:58] <Ugi> Hi there - just found your web site and thought I would say Hi
[08:59] <S_Mark> Hello, the UKHAS site?
[09:00] <Ugi> Yes - am I in the right place?
[09:00] <OE1FEA> Tnx again, Radim. I will do some new tries ... :) but now watching SCI-1 .... bye bye from Erwin, OE1FEA
[09:00] <S_Mark> yes you are
[09:01] <Ugi> Great - A friend & I have been wondering about sending a balloon up & you guys seem to know what you're about with that.
[09:01] <fsphil> we do? :)
[09:01] <fsphil> yes yes we do
[09:02] <fsphil> *ahem*
[09:02] <S_Mark> haha
[09:02] <Ugi> Well, you _look_ like you do, which is the main thing, I guess ;-)
[09:02] <fsphil> where abouts in the world are you Ugi?
[09:03] <S_Mark> I am kind of still a beginner with one launch under our belt, we have a write up here www.stratodean.co.uk that might (or might not!) be of interest
[09:03] <Ugi> At work in London <shhh!> but based in Essex.
[09:04] <Alchamist> Great write up by the way S_Mark - been reading it with interest this morning! :)
[09:04] <S_Mark> ah thanks very much
[09:06] <eroomde> are you two aspiring tv presenters?
[09:06] <Ugi> Thanks <S_Mark> I'll look at that with interest when not at work!
[09:06] <S_Mark> haha no we are defo not
[09:06] <S_Mark> just a bit of fun
[09:06] <eroomde> it is
[09:07] <costyn> Ugi: you've been looking through the wiki I guess? Most information on getting started and our recommended best way of doing it is mostly in there
[09:07] <costyn> Ugi: how familiar are you with electronics and radio?
[09:07] <S_Mark> defo read the wiki!
[09:07] <OE1FEA> somebody from SCI-1 here? how much will the overtime be? ;)
[09:08] <Ugi> Hi <costyn> - I have some experience with AVRs & could probably put that together but not really with radio
[09:08] <S_Mark> if its 11.00UTC wont that be 12.00 BST?
[09:09] <Ugi> My main issue is how to track - do I need to spend £1K on and IC7000?
[09:09] <OE1FEA> tbx. my error, didn's see the UTC at 11:00 ... ;)
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[09:09] <OE1FEA> also 2 hours left ...
[09:10] <S_Mark> my tracker cost under £100
[09:10] <S_Mark> its an SDR
[09:10] <mfa298> Ugi: whilst a lot of people use a real rig like that there are various cheaper options especially for testing
[09:10] <OE1FEA> in the google calendar it is shown with 11:00 local time (Vienna) to me ... as Radim says, there seems to be some faults in the calendar with UTC/local time ....
[09:11] <S_Mark> see the blog when you are not on work time lol
[09:12] <S_Mark> a real rig will always beat it but its enough for us an our purposes
[09:12] <mfa298> OE1FEA: looking at the email it just said 10am (which I assume is local time) so it might be soon-ish
[09:12] <Ugi> There seem to be some older options like FT-790r mentioned - are they still up to the task or too unreliable?
[09:13] <mfa298> Ugi: I think there are a lot of fans for the FT-790r and the FT-817.
[09:13] <costyn> Ugi: yea, a lot of people go with the software radio... a USB dongle with an antenna. In my opinion they are harder to setup and use than dedicated amateur radio rigs, but they do work
[09:13] <mfa298> IF you're interested in recieve only then the rtl-sdr is good for testing and potentially full tracking
[09:13] <OE1FEA> mfa298: 10am is UTC, GMT+1 or GMT+2 ????
[09:13] <mfa298> the FCD Pro Plus is a nice middle between the rtl-sdr and a big radio
[09:14] <mfa298> OE1FEA: email just said 10am which I assume might be local time. Local time in the UK is now 10:14
[09:14] <costyn> mfa298: but for that price you can get a 2nd hand radio on ebay
[09:15] <costyn> OE1FEA: usually all times are local, so in this case BST, which is GMT+1 at the moment I believe (please correct me, I'm a CET/GMT+2 guy)
[09:15] <OE1FEA> maf298: ok, but on speacenear.us is written 11:00 UTC ;)
[09:15] <costyn> OE1FEA: meh ... that is confusing :)
[09:15] <S_Mark> email says 10am, so yeah i guess that is UK time, that should say 9:00UTC on the tracking site
[09:16] <mfa298> costyn: depends on the radio, IC-7000 and FT-817 are much more than a FCD Pro Plus. The 790r might be a similar price but is 70cm's only.
[09:16] <Ugi> First time I would certainly be looking at read-only. I wouldn't be too upset to get final position by SMS and retrieve the remains for the data off an SD card but real-time radio position would really add to the excitement!
[09:16] <costyn> mfa298: yea, very happy with my 817, it just works :)
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[09:16] <S_Mark> Ugi dont forget that you will have an army of trackers tracking your balloon aswell
[09:16] <costyn> Ugi: It really does add a lot to the excitement and fun. And moreover everyone here can join the fun in listening in to your balloon and talking about it
[09:17] <S_Mark> it wont be down to just you tracking it
[09:17] <mfa298> For home tracking I've now moved to using the FCD, but out mobile I'd probably use the 817 still.
[09:18] <costyn> Ugi: I would suggest getting a USB SDR with HABamp (amplifier/filter for 70cm radio) and a 2nd hand 70cm antenna on ebay and getting some tracking experience before you start out on making your own payload
[09:18] <mfa298> Ugi: if you want to send data to the balloon payload via radio you'll need to get a Radio License (similarly to use the transmit function on any of the trancievers)
[09:18] <S_Mark> tbh 98% of the tracking on my first launch was done by others and not by us (due to laptop battery issues!)
[09:18] <costyn> ah yea.. sending data *to* the balloon is something that isn't done very much (yet)
[09:19] <Ugi> Having other trackers too would be fab - take some of the pressure off my non-existant radio skills. Would not attempt ground ->air data at least first time.
[09:19] <mfa298> I think for the UK it's a legal grey area anyway doing uplinks. I think someone tried asking ofcom but didn't get any real useful reply back.
[09:20] <Alchamist> Looks like SCI-1 is up!
[09:20] <Ugi> Is that a balloon up today?
[09:20] <GW8RAK> For receive only don't forget the Yupiteru 7100 scanner.
[09:20] <costyn> Ugi: yes
[09:20] <GW8RAK> Around £70
[09:20] <costyn> Ugi: you'll need to learn something about radio anyways. for making your payload including antenne a little knowledge is required, but it's not much nor that complicated
[09:21] <craag> Ugi: http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[09:21] <mfa298> Ugi: you'll need to understand some bits of radio to do ground -> air anyway (at least enough to pass the license exams). The radio modules we use in the air are license exempt (ISM band) so there isn't a license issue there.
[09:22] <mfa298> GW8RAK: have you done any comparisons of the 7100 against other things - I got one but havn't really used it yet for HAB.
[09:23] <mfa298> might be useful to add it to the list on the wiki of recievers.
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[09:24] <GW8RAK> The 7100 is nearly as sensitive as the 817, but the perceived difference could be down to audio quality. I've not measured minimum detectable signals as my sig gen leaks a bit and at very low levels, it's difficult to know what is input via antenna and what is pickup.
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[09:24] <GW8RAK> I don't think there is any significant difference between the two. However it is very much more sensitive than an RTL-SDR.
[09:25] <mfa298> GW8RAK: that was the impression I got when I tried some side by side comparisons on 20m for the 7100, 817 and FCD.
[09:25] <mfa298> good to know it seems to hold true on higher frequencies
[09:26] <Ugi> cragg: Cool! I picked a good day to look in!
[09:26] <GW8RAK> I normally add a preamp to the rx and that makes an enormous difference. The best difference is that the minimum detectable height from Cambridge to N Wales goes down from 16km to about 10km IIRC and the max range increases by 100km on a good day
[09:26] <Arithmetic> ugi i've felt that way about this chan several times, glancing the last week or so
[09:27] <Arithmetic> only the last week or so, that is
[09:27] <GW8RAK> G0MRF is the preamp of choice as it has low response below 420MHz
[09:27] <GW8RAK> Also got a G4DDK wide band preamp to build, but it's small.
[09:28] <mfa298> Ugi: if you hang around there are a few people from around the Essex direction so they might be useful people to talk to and there might be the option of attending a launch when one happens
[09:28] <costyn> Ugi: as you can see by the receivers list, there are already 3 people receiving the payload data
[09:28] <GW8RAK> mfa298, the 7100 covers HF, but I don't think it is widely regarded as being particularly good down there.
[09:30] <S_Mark> I think chrisstubbs is from Chelmsford
[09:30] <mfa298> doing a not particularly scietific test it seemed to be comparable to the 817 and FCD+ on 20m but the extra filtering on the 817 would probably help in weak signals.
[09:30] <fsphil> oh I forgot this one was nearer me
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[09:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> Anyone with dial freq for SCI-1
[09:32] <fsphil> ~434.650
[09:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> several possibilities around there from here ;-)
[09:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> None seem right
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[09:33] <Alchamist> Does anyone know of any that launch around the Staffordshire/West Mids area?
[09:34] <S_Mark> cuddykid and habjoe are Worcester way I think, I will be launching from the Forest of Dean tomorrow
[09:34] <cuddykid> Alchamist: I'm just north of Worcester
[09:35] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth is also based in worcester
[09:35] <cuddykid> habjoe is malvern
[09:36] <Alchamist> cuddykid: Great, thanks. I'd love to pop along to a launch or two if there are any coming up?
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[09:36] <cuddykid> Alchamist: yep, more than welcome - I should have one going up in mid-June
[09:36] <cuddykid> keep an eye on the mailing list
[09:37] <Alchamist> S_Mark: Sadly tomorrow I am out on an outside broadcast, so not able to get there :(
[09:37] <eroomde> you could broadcast the launch
[09:37] <Alchamist> cuddykid: I will, ta. Where do you normally launch from?
[09:38] <S_Mark> I could lol
[09:38] <cuddykid> Alchamist: near Ombersley,
[09:38] <cuddykid> are you nearby?
[09:38] <eroomde> Alchamist: do you work in tv or radio (or other?)
[09:39] <Alchamist> cuddykid: I'm about 60 miles north - between Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent
[09:39] <Alchamist> eroomde: Radio - Community Radio at that
[09:39] <cuddykid> not too far then
[09:40] <Alchamist> cuddykid: Nope - quick trip down the M6/M5 or the like
[09:40] <Alchamist> Though nothing's particulary "quick" in my vehicle!
[09:42] <OE1FEA> mmh, the predict of SCI-1 on http://habhub.org/predict doesn't fit to the real flight .... no affinity ...
[09:42] <fsphil> oh I must turn on live prediction
[09:43] <costyn> fsphil: that'd be great
[09:43] <costyn> although we don't know predicted burst?
[09:43] <fsphil> gonna guess 32km
[09:43] <costyn> 600g payload, 1200g balloon, 5m/s ascent rate
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[09:44] <fsphil> about right
[09:44] <costyn> fsphil: calculator says 34
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Lumex/SNR-40135/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvkSJWT1okH7H1Zcr5mcFqa%252b50PJ9fH004%3d interesting range of sensors - 2.4/4.4um - 700/400c peak photo conductive
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=snr-40059%20spectral%20sensitovity&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lumex.com%2Ffiles%2FLumex_MicronSensIR_ProductBrochure.pdf&ei=WfuVUZXQBdO1hAfdzoHICg&usg=AFQjCNGm8rJHGTQsmcaiT4i-v6k5G8ny1w&bvm=bv.46471029,d.ZG4
[09:47] <SpeedEvil> has the spectral responsivoty on page 9
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[09:47] <fsphil> there we go
[09:48] <fsphil> I'm surprised I don't have the signal yet
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[09:49] <fsphil> and just as I say that
[09:49] <fsphil> it appears
[09:49] <GMT> appears on what freq?
[09:49] <g8gtz> quite strong with me but not getting many decodes...
[09:49] <g8gtz> 434.g50
[09:49] <costyn> heh... nice prediction, following the mainland
[09:49] <g8gtz> 434.650
[09:50] <fsphil> yes it's a risky launch site
[09:50] <GMT> ok, thanks, I'm on that, but nothing heard. had a scan around for a signal, still nothing.
[09:51] <Ugi> Is this the radio module that you guys use? Looks cheaper than I was expecting! http://uk.farnell.com/radiometrix/tx2a-433-64/rf-mod-tx-fm-433-92mhz-64kbps/dp/1348821
[09:52] <fsphil> yea it's almost spot on 434.650
[09:52] <fsphil> shift is 380hz
[09:53] homewld (51982950@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.152.41.80) joined #highaltitude.
[09:53] <fsphil> nearly got a decode
[09:53] <mfa298> Ugi: most people use the NTX2 or RFM22B usually from here http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=71_63
[09:54] <HixWork> http://uk.farnell.com/radiometrix/ntx2-434-650-10/rf-module-tx-fm-434-65mhz-10kbps/dp/1348829?Ntt=NTX2
[09:54] <HixWork> oops late, yeah, Upu store cheaper
[09:54] <fsphil> don't order it from upu's store without checking with him first, he does deals :)
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[09:56] <Ugi> Thanks mfa298/HixWork
[09:56] <HixWork> nps
[09:57] <fsphil> still one character away from a decode
[09:57] <fsphil> annoying that
[09:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> Going up nicely ;-) http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/SCI-1/index.php?ind=1
[09:58] <fsphil> frequency is a bit wobbly
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[09:59] <fsphil> finally, got one
[10:00] <daveake> I can see it now. I'd put a hbabamp on there if I could remember where I hid them
[10:00] <GMT> nothing heard here in London, despite others near hear getting decodes ... maybe need a habamp
[10:00] <fsphil> stopped decoding again
[10:01] <fsphil> it's quite variable
[10:01] <Alchamist> out of interest, is that a receiver or payload issue normally?
[10:02] <fsphil> can be both
[10:02] <daveake> Some directions will be better than other depending on local geography
[10:03] <fsphil> when a payload is low on the horizon, geography can have a huge effect
[10:03] <Ugi> Am I reading the map right - that tiny transmitter was heard all the way to Calais!
[10:03] <costyn> Ugi: yep
[10:03] <Ugi> Wow!
[10:03] <fsphil> current record is 800km
[10:03] <costyn> Ugi: even though it's below the horizon :)
[10:04] <Ugi> Is that the blue line?
[10:04] <costyn> Ugi: yes
[10:04] <mfa298> The blue line is an approximation of the horizon
[10:05] <mfa298> it assumes ground level is sea level which isn't always true
[10:05] <daveake> Roughly. If you're on a hill with no hills around then your horizon is a bit lower :)
[10:05] <eroomde> it's usually not true for ground
[10:05] <eroomde> otherwise it would be sea
[10:05] <costyn> mfa298: but at calais it would be :)
[10:05] <fsphil> it shouldn't be a perfect circle either
[10:05] <daveake> And there's plenty of that near Calais
[10:05] <fsphil> on that map projection
[10:05] <costyn> fsphil: ah yea good point
[10:06] <mfa298> costyn: but the antenna could be on a huge pole.
[10:06] <costyn> eroomde: well, lots of places here in Holland were we're at a negative ASL
[10:06] <Alchamist> "Another stupid question time:" What's the green line then?
[10:06] <costyn> mfa298: it says 15m ASL
[10:06] <Alchamist> *green circle
[10:06] <mfa298> I think I've closer to the sea than F5APQ but I can manage around 100m ASL
[10:06] <eroomde> Alchamist: 5 degrees elevation LoS if i remember correctly
[10:07] <eroomde> i.e. a more practical radio range
[10:07] <daveake> yep
[10:07] <costyn> Alchamist: 5 degree horizon, but still fuzzy on why it's useful to know
[10:07] <fsphil> inside the blue circle you'll probably receive it
[10:07] <Alchamist> Thanks guys
[10:07] <fsphil> inside the green circle if you're not receiving it something is broke :)
[10:07] <eroomde> because you can more realistically pick up stuff at 5 degrees el
[10:07] <eroomde> vs 0 degrees el
[10:07] <eroomde> be it gps sats or habs
[10:07] Action: Alchamist chuckles
[10:07] <fsphil> this payload is fading in and out quite a bit
[10:07] <costyn> fsphil: ok, that confirms what I rememberd, just seems like there should be a better explanation :P
[10:08] <costyn> fsphil: a more technical one I mean
[10:08] <costyn> quite a lot of receivers on the map, butnot many receiving
[10:08] <costyn> how come gonzo_ has negative 'last time seen' :)
[10:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> Still below the South Downs for me (chalk with lots of water in it :-( )
[10:09] <daveake> not near a decode yet. Too weak. Might be too hilly thataway.
[10:09] <fsphil> I would expect this signal to be decoding better, considering it's only 345km away
[10:09] <daveake> ditto
[10:09] <UpuWork> hi
[10:09] <mfa298> fsphil: with the addition that something is broke can include a poor locatio
[10:09] <g6wtr> can I have a percise freq to listen on please
[10:09] <GMT> juuuust about hearing a signal now.
[10:09] <fsphil> mfa298: indeed. or being inside a metal building
[10:09] <eroomde> could be a dodgy antenna
[10:10] <costyn> eroomde: could be... it's their first launch
[10:10] <daveake> I'm only using the yagi in the loft, which is lower than the colinear I usually put up
[10:10] <eroomde> especially if the fading is at a plausible payload-rotation freq
[10:10] <fsphil> g6wtr: tune to 434.650 USB -- it'll be very near that
[10:10] <costyn> too bad they're not online here
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[10:10] <g8gtz> yep - good signal but poor decodes at 350 shift
[10:10] <UpuWork> not even rotated my antenna
[10:10] <UpuWork> but ok
[10:10] <eroomde> well you're local
[10:10] <g6wtr> OK hearing NOWT ON 2m FOLDED DIOP[OLE IN eastleigh
[10:11] <fsphil> shift is 370hz currently
[10:11] <UpuWork> wow
[10:11] <UpuWork> antennas never pointed in that direction
[10:11] <fsphil> lol
[10:11] <UpuWork> 12' elevation
[10:11] <Ugi> I see we now have a signal from a chase-car!
[10:11] <fsphil> 1.0 elevation here
[10:11] <mfa298> g6wtr: a standard 2m dipole usually works well for me although I'm not hearing anything at the moment just down the road from you. Although Astra seems to be doing well as normal.
[10:11] <fsphil> 94.1 degrees bearing
[10:11] <g8gtz> sry meant 370
[10:12] <costyn> Ugi: yea there are various smart phone apps available which will post their location to the tracker map
[10:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> Very smooth flight path http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/SCI-1/index.php?ind=2
[10:13] <costyn> Ugi: just a bit of extra fun for the people here following the launch. sometimes people turn on a live video stream during launch, chase and recovery. also very fun
[10:13] <fsphil> missing the dales entirely thankfully
[10:13] <daveake> yeah more people should do the live stream
[10:13] <daveake> I hardly ever get to watch one myself :p
[10:13] <g8gtz> Data all looks OK to me but comes up as bad decode
[10:13] <UpuWork> unsuprisingly strong signal
[10:13] <UpuWork> 70km away
[10:14] <fsphil> strong here but fading at times
[10:14] <Ugi> Looks great - we were thinking of doing this with our kids & the maps & projections etc would make it a load more engaging for them!
[10:14] <g8gtz> 338km and good signal
[10:14] <UpuWork> Uggy did you register on the Wiki this morning username Ugi ?
[10:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> try it in Google Earth as well much more visual!
[10:15] <Ugi> Hi UpuWork - I'm Ugi & I've not been Uggy! All I have done so far is trawl the wiki briefly and pop my head in here.
[10:16] Action: UpuWork points at Uggy
[10:16] <UpuWork> too many of you :)
[10:16] <fsphil> the gonzo_, the Babs and the Uggy
[10:16] <fsphil> (ping apology :)
[10:17] <fsphil> interesting little turn in the flight path
[10:18] <GW8RAK> Wish I was home. Don't get many balloons getting over 5 degree elevation "up North"
[10:18] <fsphil> yea it's odd
[10:18] <fsphil> up to 1.3 degrees here
[10:21] <GW8RAK> Predicted landing site could be a bit of a walk in
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[10:22] <Ugi> Better than the North Sea, I guess!
[10:23] <GW8RAK> It'll probably land right on top of one fsphil lost in the same area
[10:24] <fsphil> it's flying just east of where that landed now
[10:24] <fsphil> just west of richmond
[10:24] <fsphil> nice part of the world
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[10:24] <UpuWork> someone done the latest wind data ?
[10:24] <fsphil> yea
[10:24] <UpuWork> cheers forgot this morning
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[10:26] <g6wtr> take ur scanners into work hang a wire diole in the window and play thats what i am doing !!!
[10:26] <chrisg7ogx> STRONG SLIGHTLY UNSTABLE SIGNALS ON THE SOUTH COAST
[10:26] <chrisg7ogx> SRI sri
[10:26] <UpuWork> VERY GOOD KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
[10:26] <UpuWork> lol
[10:26] <chrisg7ogx> i have no light on keyboard to tell me im in uppercase
[10:27] <fsphil> wireless?
[10:27] <UpuWork> might be worth making one :)
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[10:27] <chrisg7ogx> connected to the mains as an incentive?!
[10:27] <mfa298> g6wtr: mine's a home made 2m dipole hanging out the window. Doing that seems to require balloons in the right place though. as the building can get in the way, I'm guessing you're having the same sort of issue.
[10:27] <chrisg7ogx> yes wireless
[10:28] <Arithmetic> what are the cancer issues to all this EM experimenting btw?
[10:28] <fsphil> yea wireless keyboards tend not to have LEDs
[10:28] <mfa298> Arithmetic: it's lower power than your mobile phone
[10:28] <chrisg7ogx> surprising as a ham lots of rf in shack but no probs..
[10:28] <g6wtr> I hvae clear line to the north but its a folded 145Mhz commercial dipole and hear nowt! in Eastleigh
[10:28] <Arithmetic> mfa298 well there are a few assumptions there, but continue
[10:29] <chrisg7ogx> got a luverly HTC One mobile
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[10:29] <fsphil> g6wtr: it may well have a filter in it
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[10:29] <mfa298> Arithmetic: well for the hab payloads done in the UK they're all 10mW, your mobile phone will be using more than that, Same for your home wifi.
[10:29] oakdenalan (1f59e3f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.89.227.240) joined #highaltitude.
[10:30] <chrisg7ogx> g6wtr horizontal??
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[10:31] <g6wtr> think what we need is a dual band colinear up did try but found hole for coasx not big enough"!
[10:31] <Arithmetic> mfa298, when i first started thinking about hacking that's not a bad word right--just putting together nice legal stuff--to do wireless internet places which "couldn't" get that..My concern after a bit was about the EM signals. it's one thing if corp america or whoever chose to blast that through brains regardless of cancer risks..It's another thing if i design gear doing that to other humans
[10:31] <mfa298> g6wtr: it could be worth trying listening to other things around the 70cm band. There's gb3iw locally and I can often hear a fair bit on the PMR frequencies.
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[10:31] <g6wtr> no its vertical think IW is off air due to death of owner of its site
[10:31] <chrisg7ogx> g6wtr i'm using dual band co0linear in god's waiting room (bognor)
[10:32] <UpuWork> hmm this one could cross 0
[10:32] <fsphil> uhoh
[10:32] <Arithmetic> mfa298, if it's all old men expecting to die in a balloon or elsewhere soon, maybe that could be a risk-factor to calculate too
[10:32] <UpuWork> unsure what the rotator does when it hits that scenario...
[10:32] <UpuWork> ping craag
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[10:32] <chrisg7ogx> g6wtr yes ATV site moving to HMS Collingwood
[10:32] <Arithmetic> old guys thinking they will die soon will surprise at times however ;)
[10:32] <mattbrejza> Arithmetic: does it concern you that the tv transmitter over london puts out over 100,000,000 times the power of a HAB payload?
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[10:33] <mfa298> Arithmetic: the recommendation for wifi gear is not to be within 20cms when it's 100mW, for a HAB payload at 10mW it's less power and whats usually seen as a less harmful bit of spectrum.
[10:33] <UpuWork> craag what does habrotate do when the azimuth goes -ive ?
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[10:33] <Arithmetic> mattbrejza, i think i see your point. but consider if all that were replaced with something more healthy. by people looking at the bigger pic
[10:33] <mfa298> g6wtr: I thought I'd heard IW recently. The southampton repeaters are offline due to site issues.
[10:34] <mattbrejza> think of all thge people who have died from heart attacks due to higher blood pressure because theyve worried about EM radiation
[10:34] <Arithmetic> mfa298, i recall looking up some of this stuff when someone asked me to choose cell phone gear. the first cell was local here. and the first phone of that type. medicine has kind of a murky interface with engineering at times of course
[10:34] <chrisg7ogx> very strong sigs here now s/n 30 dB
[10:34] <g6wtr> SH & SU are here being rehoused so you should not herar them either!
[10:34] iain-g4sgx (577378bd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.115.120.189) joined #highaltitude.
[10:34] <g6wtr> I am ther keeper of SH & SU !
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[10:35] <chrisg7ogx> g6wtr permanent qrt?
[10:35] <Arithmetic> mattbrejza, or folks in line for a weed i mean coffee machine, vending who died instead of having proper cell calls with their mistresses at the age of 40-45 yes. the males not the mistresses ;)
[10:35] <Arithmetic> hopefully WE'd be thinking of all when trying to assess that. again, these are just some things coming to mind looking at some wireless situations some time back
[10:36] <mfa298> Arithmetic: the other thing to consider is that the modules used in HAB payloads are often used in the likes of wireless temp sensors, wireless keyboards and mice, energy sensors etc.
[10:36] <Babs> fsphil, just got back from a meeting - what is the Babs reference. Have I messed up again?
[10:36] <mattbrejza> just think, your next door neighbour might be a ham, putting out 400W, and only lives a few meters away
[10:36] <g6wtr> I lost G6WTR years ago, on air under my G4 HI We should hear about SH & SU Shortly theen youll hear them we will be high then BGS can see over the top of that building from new site !
[10:36] <chrisg7ogx> SSSsssh!
[10:37] <Arithmetic> mfa298, iSuppose someone decent at public health risk subtractions already has modeled how many those have killed or not
[10:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> Being a HAM and sitting under 1.5Kw erp packet node for something like 10 years, I've yet to develop any symptoms!
[10:37] <Arithmetic> mattbrejza, you don't know how close that is to my considerations too
[10:37] <UpuWork> says Geoff-G8DHE from one of his two mouths
[10:37] <mattbrejza> i wonder how much RF your microwave leaks
[10:37] <mfa298> Arithmetic: for HAB the higher risks are likely to be how it lands rather from the RF energy.
[10:37] <mattbrejza> at 1kW, some must escape
[10:38] <Arithmetic> i don't know about em and cancer..it's just something i consider when suggesting what might be the next new wave to communication as it were. hdw or is that sftw wise
[10:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> :-)
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[10:38] <chrisg7ogx> g6wtr CC is having some Mods soon as well, not scooter variety!
[10:38] <Arithmetic> mfa298, lol. well some of us artistic types might help there too. that's another more pressured domain isn't it
[10:38] <mattbrejza> Arithmetic: radio frequency EM causes heating, that is all
[10:38] <Alchamist> sci-1 chase @120.6kmh ... entirely legal speed in the uk ... ;)
[10:39] <Arithmetic> i don't know what em causes in terms of human cells
[10:39] <mattbrejza> a photon of RF has less energy then a photon of visible
[10:39] <Arithmetic> the first electron charge measurement people respect was done about a mile from here
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[10:39] <Arithmetic> i know the concept more generally of interaction to biologicals
[10:39] <chrisg7ogx> oscillation if the nerves are at the right frequency????
[10:39] <mfa298> g6wtr: good to hear about SH & SU. I shall have to listen to IW, I thoguht I'd heard it on monday but I could be wrong. Although I think the Portsmouth repeaters might be back at times although they might be a bit far to test from your work location.
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[10:40] <g6wtr> I am ass with PC group can tell you PC is not at Eastleigh
[10:41] <daveake> Alchamist Some of us run chase car apps that somehow limit the uploaded speed to 70mph :)
[10:41] Action: Arithmetic senses a code untold in play
[10:41] <Alchamist> daveake: I can't imagine why that would be! ;)
[10:41] <Arithmetic> http://physics.aps.org/articles/v5/9
[10:41] <daveake> Because I got fed up of comments along the lines of "Dave do you know what the speed limit is?"
[10:42] Action: Alchamist laughs
[10:42] <Arithmetic> sounds like hal has an attitude problem
[10:42] <Arithmetic> wasn't hal deceived though, in the university of chicago plotting
[10:42] <mfa298> g6wtr: I wasn't sure if you'de be able to hear it there or not. I think I've sometimes picked it up in Southampton but very patchy - just trying to think of 70cms signals you could use to test what you could recieve - but you've probably got as good an idea of that as I do.
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[10:43] <Arithmetic> to the "follow-on" movie to kubrick's film ;)
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[10:44] <Arithmetic> i read the university of chicago is the 4rth-ranking college in america, tying with columbia..Which seemed kind of arbitrary in terms of not putting columbia in a plummeting position and princeton too
[10:44] <Arithmetic> maybe it's just me.
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[10:44] <Arithmetic> anyway, carry on on the carrier sig talk. didn't mean to sidechan
[10:45] <g6wtr> can hear it 651.4 on fairhaven in eASTLEIGH
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[10:45] <Arithmetic> i was thinking if the proper antenna were put up
[10:45] <Arithmetic> i might catch some sigint saying the uofc was 2nd, displacing yale
[10:45] <Arithmetic> but maybe that's more claude shannon dialect
[10:46] <chrisg7ogx> g6wtr how do you like your Fairhaven?
[10:46] <Arithmetic> hard to hear.
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[10:47] <chrisg7ogx> s/n reduced now 17 dB
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[10:47] Action: Arithmetic givesup trying to speak electricLendGineerease ;)
[10:47] <g6wtr> Id test withthe test set or even clasic FM rx goes from 550kc to well over a gig!
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[10:48] <g6wtr> good for laugh is PMR 446
[10:49] <chrisg7ogx> is SCI-1 going for float?
[10:49] <costyn> chrisg7ogx: lets hope not
[10:49] <chrisg7ogx> lol
[10:49] <UpuWork> not with that ascent rate
[10:49] <costyn> chrisg7ogx: it shouldn't; ascent rate is high enough
[10:49] <costyn> burst calc says about 34k
[10:50] <gonzo_> annoying, all the LNA's are powered off at home. Really must finish the remote control stuff
[10:50] <costyn> fsphil: did you set it to 32k or 34k?
[10:51] <x-f> costyn, 34km, you can see it on the map if you click the "poof"
[10:51] <costyn> x-f: ah yes
[10:51] <costyn> I knew that :)
[10:52] <x-f> i was just reminding :)
[10:52] <costyn> hehe
[10:56] <Ugi> I noticed that all calc's seem to assume a 320ft/m ascent rate - is that so that the balloon doesn't travel too far? I couldn't immediately see why that was the one fixed "variable".
[10:57] <Ugi> Little turn there..
[10:57] <costyn> Ugi: ft/m? we use metric here :P
[10:58] <jonsowman> that's about 1.6m/s
[10:58] <jonsowman> :\
[10:58] <jonsowman> where did you see this figure?
[10:58] <costyn> yea wondering that too
[10:58] <chrisg7ogx> from David Cameron
[10:58] <costyn> Ugi: this is the calculator you should use http://habhub.org/calc/ :)
[10:59] <Ugi> OK - sorry if I misremembered the actual number but what I meant was, everyone seems to aim for the same ascent rate.
[11:00] <Ugi> costyn - thanks, I'll look at that.
[11:00] <costyn> Ugi: ok, yea. 5m/s is a good target. slower you risk it 'floating' and not bursting, faster and you don't get as much altitude
[11:00] <costyn> Ugi: and if you want faster, you need more gas which is expensive so you want to use the least amount
[11:01] <Ugi> I see - I assume "floating" means that it levels off and never reaches a burst height.
[11:01] <jonsowman> yep
[11:01] <costyn> Ugi: yea, the balloon runs out of lift before it reaches is maximum size and will happily float for a few days
[11:01] <jonsowman> it will burst eventually
[11:01] <jonsowman> but might have gone a long way
[11:02] <jonsowman> typically involving water in this country
[11:02] <Ugi> Sounds quite cool in itself
[11:02] <costyn> Ugi: all the while being carried along by high winds, usually covering several thousand KMs
[11:02] <jonsowman> basically, aim for 4-5m/s and you'll be happy
[11:02] <jonsowman> unless you're specifically aiming to float
[11:02] <costyn> Ugi: it is, sometimes people send up floaters to see how far they go
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[11:03] <costyn> Ugi: the "UK"HAS network has extended well into eastern europe now, lots of potential listeners in Poland and surrounding countries
[11:03] <costyn> funny enough hardly any Germans so far
[11:04] <Ugi> I can see from the map, quite a few Polish trackers shown now.
[11:04] <costyn> Ugi: yep, and when there's an actual launch there they double in number :)
[11:04] <costyn> they're quite enthuisiastic there for some reason
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[11:05] <Geoff-G8DHE_> There should be a flight tomorrow a small Pico balloon which is intended to float I think
[11:05] <Alchamist> Apart from the size & weight (I'm guessing), is there any other reason why there aren't more people using Pi's in the payload opposed to Arduinos and the like?
[11:05] <LazyLeopard> That's a lot of active stations for a weekday launch...
[11:05] <costyn> Alchamist: they're more complicated, thus more bits to fail, it needs more power, etc
[11:06] <costyn> Alchamist: interfacing with other bits is a bit more complicated too
[11:07] <Alchamist> True, but I would have thought the tradeoff was more comutational power for sensors and data recording? I know there's only a limited amount of data that can be sent RTTY
[11:07] <costyn> Alchamist: but also because more people have experience with Arduino's and not that much yet with RPi
[11:07] <g6wtr> someone was asking about an aerial look on ebay for 2 /70cm colinear, get it home and dismantlke it soldering all the pressed connections on the indside one firm in cornwall will do the smallest for about 40 quid in N to SO259 adaptor
[11:07] <costyn> Alchamist: but there's also a limited nubmer of sesnors you want to sample, and the rate they change doesn't require a RPi
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[11:07] <GW8RAK> More computational power, but how much computation is needed? Most experiments tend to be quite simple.
[11:08] <costyn> Alchamist: an Arduino is more than fast enough; and if you want to record more data you can write to an SD card with an arduino too
[11:08] <mattbrejza> the only thing you need a pi for is processing images, and even then its a bit of an overkill
[11:09] <iain-g4sgx> Got home early from work, very weak for me but getting a few decodes in. All set for this weend though.
[11:09] <Ugi> Does anyone get enough bandwidth to send live images? 50 baud doesn't seem like it would cut it.
[11:09] <gonzo_> also for flight hardware, you want it to be as simple and reliable as possible. The Pi is just too complicated for that
[11:09] <Alchamist> True enough.
[11:09] <GW8RAK> And batteries = weight
[11:09] <Alchamist> I guessed there was a reason, as they are similarly priced etc
[11:09] <costyn> Ugi: yes, we send at 600 sometimes
[11:10] <costyn> Ugi: at least, that's what daveake did on his last flight
[11:10] <costyn> Ugi: http://ssdv.habhub.org/ <-- still some pictures up from the last flight
[11:10] <gonzo_> where Pi's have flown, there has always been a backup simple tracking beacon flown as well
[11:10] <costyn> Ugi: actually those seem to be just some test pictures from cuddykid
[11:11] <cuddykid> yeah, all my test photos
[11:11] <cuddykid> live cloud updates :)
[11:11] <costyn> burst any time now
[11:11] <UpuWork> well should be a clean burst at this ascent rate
[11:11] <Ugi> 34.2km and rising - getting tense here
[11:12] <UpuWork> what balloon is it ?
[11:12] <costyn> hwoyee 1200 afaik
[11:12] <UpuWork> oh...
[11:12] <UpuWork> they can do 40km
[11:12] <costyn> with 600g payload?
[11:12] <fsphil> oh this is higher than I expected
[11:12] <UpuWork> we got 40km with 1kg
[11:12] <UpuWork> from a 1200
[11:12] <costyn> wtf
[11:12] <costyn> UpuWork: was that recently?
[11:12] <UpuWork> they are a bit random
[11:12] <gonzo_> are they flying any payload, apart from tracker?
[11:13] <UpuWork> within 12 months I think
[11:13] <UpuWork> it was the first pi cam one
[11:13] <costyn> gonzo_: some science stuff guessing form the name :)
[11:13] <UpuWork> 39997m or something
[11:13] <costyn> UpuWork: amazing :)
[11:13] <Ugi> I guess when it bursts it will fall _fast_ - not much air to slow the 'chute up there...
[11:13] <costyn> Ugi: indeed
[11:13] <costyn> Ugi: you'll see it reach speeds of up to 150km/h
[11:14] <Ugi> This is not helping my work rate ;-)
[11:14] <costyn> Ugi: same :)
[11:14] <UpuWork> lol
[11:14] <UpuWork> welcome to midweek launches
[11:14] <UpuWork> I want to go to the sandwich shop
[11:14] <UpuWork> but no idea what the rotator does when it crosses the '0' line so just hanging on atm
[11:15] Action: fsphil waits for the kaboom
[11:15] <costyn> UpuWork: 0 north?
[11:15] <fsphil> oh wow. 4.8 degree elevation
[11:15] <UpuWork> yep
[11:15] <fsphil> that's a record for a flight I didn't do :)
[11:15] <costyn> fsphil: :)
[11:15] <UpuWork> currently 3.8' & 21 elevation for me
[11:15] <fsphil> bearing is 89.7 degrees, so it's officially north of me
[11:15] <UpuWork> which is out of the antennas beam width
[11:16] <fsphil> not liking the north eastern track of it
[11:16] <GW8RAK> I'm not even tracking this and I'm watching it.
[11:16] <costyn> at the landing area, what am I looking at in Google maps? looks like weird fields, can't identify it
[11:16] <UpuWork> it should swing back when it bursts
[11:17] <UpuWork> as long as it misses the petrochemical wonderland that is Teesside should beok
[11:17] <iain-g4sgx> MMmm lots of decodes now
[11:17] <GW8RAK> Heather moorland which has been burnt
[11:17] <costyn> GW8RAK: ah ok, thanks
[11:18] <GW8RAK> it enourages new growth which the grouse feed on
[11:19] <UpuWork> 37km :)
[11:19] <UpuWork> Welcome to Hwoyee land
[11:19] <costyn> http://goo.gl/maps/Sa8L9 should be easy recovery
[11:20] <costyn> what happened to all the trees? are there naturally no trees there?
[11:20] <chrisg7ogx> still great sigs on the south coast
[11:20] <GW8RAK> Cleared a few thousand years ago
[11:20] <costyn> ah
[11:21] <GW8RAK> Grouse bring in more money than conifers, so there's little incentive to plant boring conifer forests
[11:21] <costyn> GW8RAK: do people hunt them?
[11:22] <Brace> costyn: yup, that's the idea :D
[11:22] <Ugi> Can it really be 7'C up there? Must be an error?
[11:22] <GW8RAK> The grouse moors are well managed. I'm assuming you are outside the UK
[11:22] <UpuWork> 38km and ascent rate dropping a little
[11:22] <GW8RAK> Beaters drive the birds towards a line of guns.
[11:22] <OE1FEA> I think also there must be an error at outside temp ...
[11:22] <GW8RAK> Ensures that his lordship and his mates don't have to walk very far.
[11:22] <UpuWork> OE1FEA possibly not
[11:22] <costyn> Ugi: that's pretty warm indeed, but there's little air to dissapate heat by convection. the sun could be warming the temp probe
[11:22] <UpuWork> its warmer at that altitude
[11:23] <costyn> and there's always an inversion in temperature, but haven't seen it this high before
[11:23] <UpuWork> burst
[11:23] <chrisg7ogx> burst?
[11:23] <UpuWork> yes
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[11:23] <Ugi> This is the time that the servo closes that empty water-bottle in the payload right?
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[11:23] <UpuWork> incoming...
[11:24] <costyn> Ugi: ?
[11:24] <chrisg7ogx> Wow! pull back on that stick
[11:24] <Brace> Ugi: it's the time the ballon bursts
[11:24] <UpuWork> impressive height for a 1200g
[11:24] <Ugi> Just to show how much vaccuum there was - like coming down from a plane, only more so
[11:24] <costyn> UpuWork: indeed
[11:24] <Brace> nothing mechanical, they just burst at a certain height
[11:24] <GW8RAK> 252kph descent speed
[11:24] <Ugi> Upwork - yes, spotted that just after posting.
[11:25] <costyn> Ugi: would be interesting,but not sure anybody has done it before
[11:25] <chrisg7ogx> Brace because of natural weakness?
[11:25] <costyn> chrisg7ogx: well much like a small party balloon also bursts if there's too much pressure
[11:25] <Brace> chrisg7ogx: yup
[11:25] <costyn> chrisg7ogx: limit of stretching reached
[11:25] <Brace> sorry, pressure
[11:26] <Brace> balloon expands as it goes up and after a certain point it goes pop cause it can't stretch anymore
[11:26] <chrisg7ogx> costyn so how can you give an estimate of such a variable?
[11:27] <costyn> chrisg7ogx: I'm not sure actually, mostly experience of sending up lots and lots of balloons I think
[11:27] <chrisg7ogx> i.e. this one must have been slightly better quality/thicker?
[11:27] <costyn> chrisg7ogx: I'm guessing so yes
[11:27] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Possibly temperature as well ?
[11:27] <Brace> I'm pretty sure it's the weight of the balloon, which governs it, i.e. how thick the material is and how stretchy it is
[11:27] <costyn> someone reported their hwoyee being heavier than what it said on the label
[11:27] <chrisg7ogx> ok thanks thought i was missing something pressure valve or some sort of membrane
[11:28] <costyn> heh
[11:28] <costyn> there are no roads close to the landing point
[11:28] <Brace> nope
[11:28] <Brace> it's fairly simple :D
[11:29] <Alchamist> I know you wouldn't, but what would happen if you had two balloons attached, with half the gas in each?
[11:29] <mfa298> Alchamist: I think you'de struggle to do that easily with Latex balloons as they expand a lot.
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[11:29] <chrisg7ogx> http://metofficenews.wordpress.com/2013/05/16/met-office-keeping-a-close-eye-on-space-weather/
[11:29] <mfa298> people have done it with mylar party balloons but they don't go as high.
[11:30] <chrisg7ogx> the sun has a "zit" #1748!
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[11:33] <Ugi> Que?
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[11:34] <Geoff-G8DHE_> The IRC network has a problem at the moment!
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[11:34] <Alchamist> I thought netsplits were a thing of the past these days ... haven't seen one of those in years!
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[11:35] <fsphil> ah it burst
[11:35] <Geoff-G8DHE_> They were blaming a DOS attack earlier in the week
[11:35] <mfa298> Alchamist: freenode have had a few DDOS attacks against them which have caused netsplits
[11:35] Action: Alchamist nods
[11:35] <costyn> bloody annoying, DDOS attacks
[11:36] <Alchamist> In fairness, I've not been on external IRC servers for a few years either, which is probably why I haven't seen many
[11:36] <chrisg7ogx> north korea radio strong tho!
[11:36] <gonzo_> kids. Real hackers would not attack irc
[11:36] <chrisg7ogx> what are these attacks?
[11:37] <gonzo_> Bit like a christian robbing a church
[11:37] <fsphil> yea cause christians are always nice people :)
[11:37] <gonzo_> (though taking the lead off the roof was always seen as fair game!)
[11:38] <mfa298> chrisg7ogx: I'm not sure exactly how freenode has been attacked. But DDOS is a style of attack where lots of people send requests with the aim of overwhelming the server.
[11:38] <gonzo_> Well, more like pissing on your own doorstep
[11:38] <chrisg7ogx> ah yes seen similar attempts on news. fist one i was aware of was during first gulf war
[11:39] <costyn> mfa298: well, not 'people', but more compromised hosts (so PCs with malware/trojans/viruses)
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[11:39] <chrisg7ogx> some of us may be doing it
[11:39] <costyn> chrisg7ogx: DDOS attacks during the first gulf war?
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[11:39] <Alchamist> In olden days they used to use the netsplits as a way of taking over IRC channels ... that was always fun getting caught up in the middle of chanwars
[11:39] <costyn> chrisg7ogx: well if you have a "dirty" PC yea you might be contributing :)
[11:39] <chrisg7ogx> attempts to overload certain systems
[11:40] <mfa298> costyn: true, but saying people is easier to explain.
[11:40] <costyn> mfa298: yea
[11:40] <costyn> hmm the chase car is going in the wrong direction
[11:41] <mfa298> chrisg7ogx: DDOS is Distributed Denial of Service. And it's the usual form of attack if someone just wants to take something offline (which is the most common)
[11:41] <costyn> or at least taking a longer route
[11:41] <chrisg7ogx> mfa298 thks
[11:41] <fsphil> I remember dalnet used to split all the time
[11:41] <Ugi> I assume the chase chase is likely to be tracking too
[11:41] <fsphil> getting some odd sideband noise on the signal
[11:42] <fsphil> Ugi: sadly that's not always true :)
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[11:42] <chrisg7ogx> dambusters special call GB70DAM on 7.155
[11:42] <costyn> Ugi: yep, thats usually a good idea. when the payload gets low, you've got to be close otherwise you can't receive it any more and no one else can hear it any more either
[11:42] <mfa298> chrisg7ogx: they've been around for years and are generally hard to protect against so if you're being attacked like that you normally have to get your provider(s) to block things.
[11:42] <Ugi> Why so? Is the equipment hard to handle in the field? I no nothing about this type of gear
[11:43] <fsphil> these days I just have a laptop, funcube dongle and an antenna on the roof
[11:43] <gonzo_> GB70DAM running airborne???
[11:43] <fsphil> maybe a few spare batteries just in case
[11:43] <Alchamist> I take it the funcube is worth the pricetag then/
[11:43] <Alchamist> ? even
[11:43] <costyn> mfa298: my companies sells sophisticated hardware anti-ddos appliances, which work quite well. they sit inline on the transit provider's line and filter out attacks
[11:43] Action: Alchamist slaps his typist again
[11:44] <chrisg7ogx> no on ground
[11:44] <mfa298> Ugi: tends to depend on how many are in the vehicle and what alse they need to look at.
[11:44] <chrisg7ogx> radio hams
[11:44] <fsphil> it's difficult to chase and drive at the same time
[11:44] <fsphil> though not impossible
[11:44] <costyn> yea you need at least a driver and someone to man the laptop :)
[11:44] <Ugi> I see that might make it interesting!
[11:45] <fsphil> or some kind of HUD with direction and distance details
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[11:45] <costyn> fsphil: like dave has :)
[11:45] <daveake> http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/IMG_1483-1024x768.jpg
[11:45] <fsphil> but having one person for driving and one for tracking is always best
[11:45] <costyn> heh.. chase car and payload were just in the same place
[11:45] <fsphil> 9000m and I'm still decoding
[11:45] <mfa298> costyn: depends on what the attack is like. I've seen some that could be blocked fairly easily (lots of small udp packets). When there's 3Gbps of DDOS traffic on a 2Gbps link there's not so much you can do locally so need the provider to do something.
[11:45] <fsphil> nice
[11:46] <gonzo_> and having a missus willing to drive
[11:46] <UpuWork> weeee full 360
[11:46] <fsphil> ACTION SHOT
[11:46] <chrisg7ogx> and having a missus willing
[11:46] <daveake> That was me driving. The "missus" was UpuWork
[11:46] <UpuWork> lol
[11:46] <fsphil> they're an odd couple
[11:47] <UpuWork> that shot came out quite well
[11:47] <Brace> daveake: I like the number of screens there
[11:47] <daveake> needs moar
[11:47] <costyn> mfa298: true, in that case you're out of luck
[11:47] <Brace> daveake: ala matrix
[11:47] <chrisg7ogx> nice pic similar to storm chasers
[11:47] <UpuWork> I just held the camera over my shoulder
[11:48] <fsphil> still decoding at 7800m
[11:48] <fsphil> just
[11:48] <Ugi> Not too many stations within the green circle now - how low is it likely to get before it gets lost?
[11:48] <UpuWork> its in my blind spot so I'm likely to loose it soon
[11:49] <fsphil> the chase car seems to be uploading, so we should see it most of the way down
[11:49] <UpuWork> M0DTS will have it all the way down probably
[11:49] <mattbrejza> oo java decoder beat fldigi again (dispite fldigi having a slight headstart)
[11:49] <Brace> nice little stroll in the moors for them it seems
[11:49] <mfa298> I was going to say, for once M0DTS seems to be in the right bit of the country.
[11:49] <daveake> He had my Yorkshire one after it landed
[11:49] <UpuWork> anyway blue circle is the one to look at
[11:50] <fsphil> 6960m -- this is so weird :)
[11:50] <fsphil> we need more northern launches
[11:50] <UpuWork> indeed
[11:50] <costyn> heh... if they keep driving they'll get to the landing spot just as the payload does
[11:50] <costyn> should both take about 23 minutes
[11:50] <UpuWork> nice decent rate
[11:50] <UpuWork> good job they held off for the correct sized chute
[11:50] <fsphil> failed to decode that one
[11:51] <fsphil> that's it for me I think
[11:52] <Ugi> fingers crossed it misses that reservoir¬!
[11:52] <UpuWork> oh it will
[11:52] <fsphil> it's quite a hilly area
[11:52] <UpuWork> M0DTS missing the odd packet ?
[11:52] <fsphil> they might see it landing if it goes on the right side of the hills
[11:53] <UpuWork> signal is going a bit for me
[11:53] <fsphil> mostly gone here
[11:53] <fsphil> they disapppear so quickly when they're close
[11:53] <fsphil> -p
[11:54] <UpuWork> its going to go quick for me
[11:54] <fsphil> just got a trace
[11:54] <UpuWork> hills right behind the house
[11:54] <fsphil> is there another much wider signal?
[11:55] <chrisg7ogx> goodbye to all tks fer company till tomorrow..
[11:55] <costyn> chrisg7ogx: cya
[11:55] <fsphil> still got a trace
[11:55] <Ugi> tomorrow? Do you guys launch these _every day_?
[11:56] <costyn> 14 minutes drive, predictor says little less than 20 minutes until landing
[11:56] <fsphil> gone now
[11:56] <UpuWork> http://i.imgur.com/Jcf5VpQ.png
[11:56] <chrisg7ogx> think there's a pico
[11:56] <costyn> Ugi: well on the weekends there's usually a launch
[11:56] <costyn> UpuWork: interesting
[11:56] <fsphil> depending on the weather
[11:57] <mfa298> Ugi: people often wait for good weather and good predictions when tends to limit the times people can launch so there are often several together.
[11:57] <Ugi> Fab - I must tune in again. Is there a list of upcoming launches?
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[11:57] <costyn> Ugi: yes, there's a calendar and a mailing list
[11:57] <mfa298> Ugi: best thing is to join the mailing list
[11:57] <mfa298> http://groups.google.com/group/ukhas
[11:57] <Ugi> Thanks - will do.
[11:57] <costyn> Ugi: http://habitat.habhub.org/calendar/ iCal feed
[11:58] <mfa298> you can also keep an eye on the tracker page as details are usually put on there and keep an eye on this channel
[11:58] <Babs> Upuwork - some lenticular clouds over your way recently apparently http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-16302606
[11:58] <Babs> That would be a cool thing to photograph HAB-wise
[11:58] <UpuWork> interesting
[11:58] <fsphil> oh sweet
[11:59] <UpuWork> didnt see them
[11:59] <costyn> seems like quite a hilly area
[11:59] <costyn> but with a bit of luck they should see their payload coming down
[11:59] <Babs> It looks pretty much like the same cloud but from various different angles
[11:59] <costyn> Babs: that is really cool
[11:59] <Alchamist> And from 2011 ... ;)
[12:00] <fsphil> I'm betting it lands on the far side of that hill to the north of the prediction
[12:00] <costyn> Alchamist: haha
[12:00] <fsphil> 400m asl
[12:00] <daveake> ditto
[12:00] <costyn> in Cuddy's wood? :)
[12:00] <Babs> Costyn - Did you see the Russian dashcam that got the airliner stalling the other day? that was pretty cool (ignoring the death and destruction, from a pure "that is a rare event to see on vid perspective")
[12:00] <fsphil> hah
[12:00] <costyn> Babs: yes saw it, crazy stuff
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[12:01] <fsphil> north of cuddy's wood
[12:01] <fsphil> don't think it'll get into that vally
[12:01] <Babs> crazy
[12:02] <UpuWork> Check the road they are on
[12:02] <UpuWork> http://goo.gl/maps/elUxm
[12:02] <Babs> Has anyone used the HABHUB app and if so how does one appear on spacenear? is it one of the flight docs fields?
[12:03] <costyn> UpuWork: cool
[12:03] <GW8RAK> Lovely bit of moorland road
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[12:03] <costyn> UpuWork: reminds of the Isle of Man roads they always drive on TopGear
[12:03] <UpuWork> Cuddys wood is my guess
[12:03] <UpuWork> just north
[12:04] <GW8RAK> car's getting close
[12:04] <Ugi> Amazing sudden turn predicted on the map - is that known difference in wind direction lower down?
[12:04] <UpuWork> yes Ugi
[12:04] <UpuWork> chase not updated for 3 mins
[12:05] <fsphil> no gsm probably
[12:05] <fsphil> m0dts might receive this on the ground
[12:05] <fsphil> ah it's going to clear that hill
[12:05] <Ugi> How low before you can see it by eye from the ground?
[12:06] <costyn> Ugi: depends on the clouds
[12:06] <UpuWork> they are really hard to see
[12:06] <UpuWork> only seen it once
[12:06] <costyn> Ugi: but the parachute and payload are usually pretty small, so hard yes
[12:06] <costyn> UpuWork: saw both of mine :D
[12:06] <UpuWork> also low cloud @ 1000feet means its only got about 60 seconds left in the air
[12:06] <Ugi> I guess it would depend, just wondered - seems pretty close
[12:06] <fsphil> cleared the hill
[12:06] <UpuWork> M0DTS getting it on the ground again...
[12:07] <costyn> amazing
[12:07] <fsphil> still in the air I think
[12:07] <UpuWork> I mean effectively :)
[12:07] <fsphil> ground is 400m, it's at 800
[12:07] <fsphil> think he's lost it now
[12:07] <UpuWork> nope
[12:07] <UpuWork> just updated :)
[12:07] <fsphil> hah
[12:07] <costyn> hehe
[12:07] <UpuWork> super slow
[12:07] <UpuWork> 2.5 mins left
[12:07] <costyn> well they won't see it now
[12:08] <UpuWork> costyn they could be under it
[12:08] <UpuWork> chase hasn't updated in 7 mins
[12:08] <costyn> ah yea, it's not updating
[12:08] <fsphil> hope it missed those woods
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[12:08] <costyn> fsphil: cuddykid's woods? :P
[12:08] <UpuWork> and now we wait
[12:09] <fsphil> yea cuddykid, that's just rude putting a forest under the payload :)
[12:09] <cuddykid> lol
[12:09] <OE1FEA> touch down and HF out of range?
[12:09] <costyn> OE1FEA: yes
[12:09] <fsphil> yea it'll be on the ground now
[12:10] <OE1FEA> chase car has hunting antenna? :)
[12:10] <mattbrejza> yea it wont need one
[12:10] <UpuWork> I wouldn't be surprised if they have a visual OE1FEA
[12:11] <daveake> M0DTS dropped out so I reckon it's on the far side of that hill
[12:11] <OE1FEA> otherwise the have to search some 100s of meters :)
[12:11] <daveake> They'll get a signal then they'll know where it is
[12:12] <daveake> It may require some strenuous walking however :p
[12:12] <UpuWork> I suspect they will have it just not uploading
[12:12] <UpuWork> the predicted landing is on a hill side
[12:12] <daveake> yep
[12:12] <Alchamist> How do you guys go about recovery when it's in the middle of a load of fields or the like?
[12:12] <daveake> walk
[12:12] <UpuWork> Find land owner ask permission
[12:12] <daveake> and that
[12:12] <UpuWork> or
[12:13] <Alchamist> I guessed you walked! :)
[12:13] <UpuWork> enter field of triffids
[12:13] <daveake> oh yeah
[12:13] <Alchamist> I meant - like there it will be in the middle of nowhere - how do you go about getting permission etc
[12:13] <costyn> launch UAV and have it recover it :P
[12:13] <daveake> don't remind me :(
[12:13] <UpuWork> ask at local pubs etc
[12:14] <OE1FEA> or landed by the buildings (farm?) there ...
[12:14] <Alchamist> I take it you generally get a good reception from the land owners?
[12:14] <Alchamist> rather than shotguns and cries of "Gerrof my land ..."
[12:14] <UpuWork> most people are quite bemused by it all
[12:14] <daveake> Especially if you have a bottle of bubbly
[12:14] <costyn> Alchamist: usually yes...
[12:15] <costyn> Alchamist: at first they have no clue what you're talkinga bout
[12:15] <costyn> Alchamist: bottle of wine or other alcohol soon makes people friendly
[12:15] <UpuWork> on Ali's flight the land owner broke out a chain saw and cut his own tree down to assist
[12:18] <OE1FEA> Owner there: Cote House Farm :)
[12:18] <cuddykid> essential chase car item - a bottle of bubbly :P
[12:19] <costyn> heh... those road names in that area... most just seem to be 2 random English words put together
[12:20] <costyn> Bale Hill, CLap Shaw, Park Bank
[12:21] <mattbrejza> well 'hill', 'shaw' and 'bank' are all natural 'structures'
[12:21] <mattbrejza> although i had to look up shaw
[12:21] <costyn> mattbrejza: ah, so there is a pattern
[12:21] <mattbrejza> who came up with the first part of those names or why i have no idea
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[12:22] <iain-g4sgx> Lot of old Viking names that part of the country.
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[12:27] <GW8RAK> Where are you costyn?
[12:28] <costyn> GW8RAK: Netherlands
[12:28] <costyn> GW8RAK: not tracking unfortunately
[12:28] <GW8RAK> Thank you. Just wait until I launch and you have to deal with Welsh placenames
[12:28] <fsphil> hah
[12:28] <costyn> GW8RAK: hahah ok :)
[12:29] <fsphil> gwlendllowvvwwoooop
[12:29] <GW8RAK> Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
[12:29] <daveake> There's a place in Yorkshire called Great Habton
[12:29] <fsphil> what's alarming is that one is real
[12:29] <daveake> Someone should launch from there
[12:29] <x-f> http://i.imgur.com/bwU4r.gif
[12:29] <costyn> GW8RAK: omg
[12:30] <costyn> x-f: nice
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[12:31] <fsphil> go go go to Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
[12:31] Nick change: db -> Guest15230
[12:31] <fsphil> just rolls of the tongue
[12:31] Nick change: Guest15230 -> g6gzh
[12:31] <GW8RAK> No, it's the spit which comes off the tongue with Welsh
[12:32] <fsphil> I hear they have to have special phone covers there
[12:32] <GW8RAK> lol
[12:32] <costyn> GW8RAK: as a Dutchman I'm used to using a lot of gutteral sounds, but this... this... I have no idea how even to begin
[12:32] <GW8RAK> Telephone sanitisers as in HHGTTG
[12:32] <fsphil> haha
[12:32] <costyn> ahaha
[12:32] <GW8RAK> As least you use normal vowels costyn.
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[12:33] <costyn> GW8RAK: yea... about those... what happened that they lost them all in Wales?
[12:34] <GW8RAK> They are used, but w and y are also used as vowels.
[12:34] <daveake> I was thinking ... the word "Dutch" gets used a lot - Double Dutch, Dutch Courage, Going Dutch ... but I don't think there are any phrases that use "Belgian". Wonder why ... :p
[12:34] <costyn> I see
[12:34] <fsphil> there's a place not far from here called Moneymore. yes please
[12:34] <GW8RAK> But if in doubt, put in a double "l" or a double "f".
[12:34] <Alchamist> Belgian Chocolate?
[12:34] <GW8RAK> No X in welsh
[12:34] <costyn> daveake: no idea :)
[12:34] <daveake> not a phrase :)
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[12:35] <GW8RAK> I think for Belgian, you can use Flems :)
[12:36] <costyn> too bad the SCI team isn't here on IRC
[12:36] <Alchamist> Let me see ... A ... C ... phlem ...
[12:37] <fsphil> bit of a thunderstorm in south wales
[12:38] <fsphil> and cornwall
[12:38] <Alchamist> which bit of a thunderstorm?
[12:38] <fsphil> the lightning bit
[12:38] <fsphil> http://www.blitzortung.org/Webpages/index.php?lang=en&subpage_0=12
[12:38] <fsphil> sorry to go off topic :)
[12:40] <GW8RAK> Time to go home I think and kick the sheep out the garden.
[12:40] <Alchamist> It's times like this I wish Google offered real time satellite ... We could watch them recovering the payload
[12:40] <Arithmetic> 'white shoe boys' seems a bit harsh for brussels even to me...But then, how would i even know who they knew :)
[12:40] <fsphil> caught red hoofed?
[12:40] <Arithmetic> as if goog isn't extracting rather than offering
[12:40] <GW8RAK> Just seen one in the webcam
[12:41] <Arithmetic> what a great scam that is, to have a populace pay for a technology then resell it to "them"
[12:41] <Arithmetic> ahh well.
[12:41] <Arithmetic> it's the terms used isn't it. such as offering rather than repaying debt.
[12:43] <Alchamist> Balloon going up in Poland?
[12:43] <Arithmetic> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nichelle_Nichols,_NASA_Recruiter_-_GPN-2004-00017.jpg
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[12:44] <x-f> yep, SP9UOB has launched
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[12:44] <x-f> 29C
[12:44] <fsphil> lies
[12:44] <fsphil> it can't get that hot
[12:45] <x-f> at 2.2km altitude
[12:45] <x-f> we have +31C on the ground now
[12:45] <fsphil> can't hear you, bla bla bla
[12:45] <x-f> sorry :)
[12:46] <Alchamist> 1.2m/s rise? Is that aiming for float?
[12:46] <fsphil> isn't it a pico?
[12:46] <x-f> yep, it's a pico
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[12:54] <x-f> in 40 hours it could touch the UK - http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/131011_trj001.gif
[12:54] <eroomde> just had a phone call
[12:54] <Randomskk> cool story bro
[12:54] <fsphil> love the ending
[12:54] <eroomde> 'hello, i'm Colonel StJohn something retired'
[12:54] <eroomde> 'yes?'
[12:54] <eroomde> 'I have a propsal for the future-propulsion-research-department'
[12:54] <eroomde> '... yes?'
[12:55] <Randomskk> these are always good
[12:55] <Randomskk> not related to Spacefleet perchance?
[12:56] <eroomde> 'I have found a way to turn amonnia into steam super-instantly.... gelatine-coated ping-pong balls.... 800 amps ..... I showed them .... Jacobs ladder copper bus bar..... i have 18 mentions on google you know ..... i put the schematics on the facebook as photos to get round the censors.... of course cold fusion would solve this but ..... potassium permangenate but just enough to fill a yoghurt pot'
[12:56] <eroomde> 15 minutes
[12:57] <Randomskk> haha
[12:57] <eroomde> during which time i was in spasms of laughter and iain and james had to leave the room heaving
[12:57] <eroomde> ' so I expect you'll be wanting to persue this then. When shall we arrange a meeting?'
[12:58] <eroomde> it was at the 'you just need to pass 800A through gelatine-coated pingpong balls' that i lost it
[12:59] <HixWork> are they rated to 800A then? Seems a little high for a ping-pong ball
[12:59] <daveake> Much less. About tennish
[12:59] <jonsowman> :|
[12:59] <Alchamist> It's the gelatine that ups the rating ...
[12:59] <HixWork> ahh, now i understand, I mean if he can't even spec the right ping-pong ball who would take him seriously
[13:00] <eroomde> well quite
[13:00] <eroomde> 'i'm what they call a charlaton, but this charlaton has 18 mentions on the google!'
[13:00] <Randomskk> you should probably steal his idea and patent it then develop future propulsion techniques
[13:00] <Randomskk> give him something to whine about
[13:00] <Randomskk> "this charlaton has 18 mentions on the google" fantastic
[13:01] Action: HixWork googlea mentalists
[13:01] <LazyLeopard> All self-references, no doubt.
[13:01] <Randomskk> "I noticed that your mission statement on your website seemed to chime with my project, in that I am developing, with others, a project to build and operate a space-capable UAV that can take experimental payloads on a sub-orbital trajectory, as a replacement for the currently-used expendable rockets."
[13:01] <HixWork> *googles
[13:01] <eroomde> yes i saw that
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> haha
[13:02] <Randomskk> though later, same email
[13:02] <daveake> You sure he said "colonel" not "general"? 'cos I keep thinking of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Daa8ZnxC-0Y
[13:02] <Randomskk> "A consortium has been collected together consisting of four companies, namely "LAJP" in Ukraine, who will supply the rocket motors,"
[13:02] <Randomskk> the rocket motors for their rocket-replacement project?
[13:02] <fsphil> oh they'll be replaced later
[13:02] <Randomskk> http://www.spacefleet.co.uk/
[13:03] <fsphil> all these hits will make them quite excited
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[13:04] <Randomskk> semi-liquid fuel huh
[13:04] <daveake> http://spaceentrepreneurs.ning.com/profile/RaymondDWright
[13:05] <fsphil> they didn't use spacetrepreneurs
[13:05] <Randomskk> his friends list
[13:05] <Randomskk> includes like http://spaceentrepreneurs.ning.com/profile/Pett
[13:05] <daveake> "The international collaborators in the EARL project have ageed a MOU. All we need is the funding (~£2M)"
[13:05] <Randomskk> whose wall is full of "thanks for adding!" and "welcome to the club" and "I appreciate your friendship"
[13:05] <fsphil> lol
[13:05] <daveake> They have a digital model. Impressive.
[13:05] <daveake> s/They/He/
[13:05] <Randomskk> and http://spaceentrepreneurs.ning.com/profile/StaceyGirlInc
[13:06] <Randomskk> call me a cynic but
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[13:06] <fsphil> they'll probably list you as an interested investor now eroomde
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[13:08] <iain-g4sgx> sp9 has a very slow ascent rate..
[13:08] <fsphil> it's a pico flight iain-g4sgx
[13:08] <daveake> pico (foil)
[13:08] <fsphil> the aim is to float it
[13:08] <fsphil> which requires a very low ascent rate
[13:08] <fsphil> or they rip
[13:09] <iain-g4sgx> Ah OK, first float Ive seen since ava etc few weeks ago.
[13:14] <x-f> there will be another tomorrow from Slovakia, and Upu said, he may launch one this weekend as well
[13:18] <cuddykid> think I might shrink the size of these images down - it's taking over 10minutes to send most
[13:19] <Babs> eroomde, you still on?
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[13:27] <iain-g4sgx> sp9 looks ike its falling
[13:29] <x-f> :/
[13:29] <mfa298> thats a quick decent.
[13:31] <HixWork> 38333m not a bad maiden
[13:50] <eroomde> Babs: briefly
[13:51] <eroomde> my gps pcb is spening 5 mins warming up
[13:51] <eroomde> before i take the hot air gun to it
[13:52] <daveake> There's probably not much (if any) balloon still attached to that
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[13:59] <x-f> knowing Tom, he might launch another one tomorrow
[14:06] <daveake> If not now :)
[14:07] <Babs> My mate had a similar experience to your colonel, although the guy was more incompetent than charlatan - he does the technology transfer for an English Uni. Basically the PHDs bring their tech to him and he does the "Yes its clever, but is the commercial application actually real or not" bit
[14:08] <Babs> He had a guy come to him one day with the following:
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[14:08] <iain-g4sgx> Bought one of these, PC oscilloscope. Seems a bargain, anyone used one? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281107624760&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123
[14:08] <Babs> PhD: "I've got this invention. It's a box, and you ask it a question. *whatever* the question is, it then speaks the answer"
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[14:09] <Babs> My mate: "That certainly sounds as if it has a very wide commercial potential. How does it work, what's inside it?"
[14:09] <daveake> Ask the box :)
[14:09] <Babs> PhD: "I haven't got to that stage that, at the moment it's just a concept"
[14:10] <Babs> My mate: "I think it needs a bit more work to get to the fund raising stage"
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[14:21] <UpuWork> interesting
[14:21] <UpuWork> SCI chase car appears to be in a field
[14:21] <daveake> And not near where you'd expect the payload to be
[14:22] <UpuWork> well unless it took a swerve before it landed
[14:22] <UpuWork> if you put the path on they have been going round
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[14:22] <cuddykid> looks like it missed my wood
[14:22] <daveake> Well I'm thinking it should have stopped a bit short because of the ground alt
[14:22] <UpuWork> yes concur
[14:23] <drew_> if i wanted to have a go at launching a weather ballon just to take some pictures where would i start?
[14:23] <daveake> ukhas.org.uk
[14:24] <daveake> Answers 99% of all known questions
[14:24] <UpuWork> the other 1% are covered you're just not asking the right questions
[14:24] <drew_> indeed... are there any projects going on in west sussex that i could help with?
[14:25] <Babs> daveake: 99% of all known questions? sounds as if the box concept strikes again
[14:25] <daveake> I wondered if you'd mention that :)
[14:26] <drew_> box concept?
[14:26] <Babs> There is a definite gap now that Cannon and Ball have retired daveake. We should go on tour.
[14:26] <daveake> hah
[14:26] <UpuWork> lol
[14:26] <daveake> drew_ Just some off-topic chat earlier
[14:27] <Babs> Hale and Pace, the Chuckle Brothers, Cannon and Ball, Christine and Neil Hamilton. So many comedy duos, so little time.
[14:27] <drew_> so i guessing that there isnt any projects that i could help out with to learn how this is all done the proper way
[14:28] <daveake> Ant and Dec
[14:28] <daveake> Oh, you said "comedy"
[14:28] <UpuWork> drew_ I'm sure you would be welcome to come along to a launch
[14:28] <daveake> drew_ You're probably welcome to go along to a launch to see how it's done; just ask when you see a local flight announced
[14:29] <drew_> now i feel rather silly so sorry about all the questions. how/where do i find out about these launches
[14:30] <daveake> That's one of the 99% ;)
[14:30] <daveake> There's a mailing list
[14:30] <daveake> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/ukhas
[14:30] <Babs> drew - ukhas google group, go to ukhas and upcoming launch details are listed there. on any one day, the upcoming launches are listed on spacenear.us
[14:30] <daveake> Join that
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[14:31] <drew_> thanks very much chaps
[14:31] <daveake> Also there's an iCal calendar which you can (for example) load into Google Calendar
[14:31] <Babs> daveake - you're quicker than me. I will have to be Morecombe, you can be Wise.
[14:31] <drew_> is it an expensive hobby?
[14:31] <daveake> I'm Launchin' In The Rain, I'm ....
[14:32] <daveake> Compared to most yes
[14:32] <drew_> all the good ones are i guess
[14:32] <daveake> I reckon a launch, once you've got the kit, costs £200 in balloon/gas/petrol
[14:32] <daveake> can be a bit less
[14:32] <daveake> can be more if you lose the payload
[14:33] <drew_> its the kit that im a little lost with
[14:33] <UpuWork> well start slowly
[14:33] <UpuWork> get the radio bit working
[14:33] <UpuWork> which is very simple
[14:33] <daveake> You'll need a tracker (and everyone here will rightfully tell you to make a radio tracker 'cos they're the bestist), at around £60 in parts
[14:33] <UpuWork> every used an Arduino ?
[14:33] <drew_> which is why i think it best to find a local launch so i could learn
[14:33] <daveake> A receiver can be £12 ish
[14:34] <UpuWork> yeah I would start by recieving other peoples launches
[14:34] <UpuWork> it helps
[14:34] <daveake> camera around £30 on ebay
[14:34] <drew_> cool, may i ask where you guys a based
[14:35] <daveake> All over
[14:35] <daveake> I'm in Berks
[14:35] <daveake> See https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ukhas/LkteE6wS5L8/VuPKEfjQ41sJ for costs ....
[14:35] <mattbrejza> you can see where people are thanks to the little icons on the tracking map http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[14:36] <daveake> I hit stage 5 last yar
[14:36] <drew_> gentleman thanks dave
[14:38] <eroomde> Babs: that's amazing
[14:38] <eroomde> i messed up the tcxo on the gps board
[14:38] <eroomde> I read VC as VCC
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[14:39] <Randomskk> eroomde: oops
[14:39] <Randomskk> greenwire?
[14:40] <eroomde> it shall be yes
[14:40] <Randomskk> :(
[14:40] <eroomde> but first a glass of water
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[14:44] <eroomde> nice oscillators tho
[14:44] <eroomde> i'm hoping this will fix it
[14:44] <eroomde> nothing is shorted
[14:44] <eroomde> but the max chip wasn't doing anything
[14:44] <eroomde> and it turns out the xtal was on wrong
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[14:44] <eroomde> so no clock would explain no power-draw
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[14:47] <Babs> get into carbon fibre and 3-D printing if you want to spend more on the hobby. It's analogous to sitting in front of a fire burning up £50 notes to stay warm.
[14:48] <daveake> I used to do track days. Those can eat up money. Not as much as actually racing, mind.
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[14:50] <HixWork> Babs, you should throw some Ti into the mix, just to keep yourself a bit warmer :)
[14:52] <Babs> daveake - got to race a single seater the other week. 0-100mph and back again in 8 seconds. I think its fair to say I didn't really scratch the surface of the performance envelope.
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[14:53] <Babs> but i'm blaming it on the damp track rather than my driving ability
[14:53] <daveake> That's pretty quick
[14:53] <daveake> :)
[14:53] <Babs> It feels like you have been kicked in the head when it takes off
[14:54] <HixWork> what was it Babs?
[14:54] <Babs> Then I did the equiavelent two seater, and halfway through changed places with the instructor. They have a little bar on the dash that you have to hold to stop your arms flying around and hitting him on the head when he goes around corners.
[14:55] <Babs> Hixwork - http://www.palmersport.com/our-cars/formula-jaguar.aspx
[14:56] <daveake> Slicks + downforce can be pretty brutal
[14:56] <Babs> true daveake - and the low pressure when you go quick pulls the helmet upwards as well
[14:56] <Babs> which is a little disconcerting
[14:56] <HixWork> ahh, they used to be like lmp cars the formula jags
[14:57] <Babs> lmp?
[14:57] <HixWork> I've had a lid nearly off in the past at silverstone
[14:57] <HixWork> LMP sorry
[14:57] <HixWork> le mans prototypes
[14:57] <daveake> btw I wrote the telemetry s/w for A1GP, that collated/processed data from the cars over a radio link, and fed the TV stream
[14:58] <daveake> Got to see some races for free, which was nice
[14:58] <Babs> They have a two seater which is pretty similar. its actually the best one, because there you have an instructor just how far you can push the car.
[14:59] <Babs> daveake - cool! The camera kit they have is so great now on the cars, although arguably it makes the stuff look too easy. The in car of Senna at Monaco in the Senna film which is vibrating all over the place is more like it.
[15:01] <Babs> daveake - they give you four telemetry streams at the end of the laps (wheel speed, throttle angle, brake angle and one other) and then map the pro's telemetry over the top of it to see just how much faster, how later they braked etc.
[15:01] <Babs> I claimed a damp track a la top gear as my excuse
[15:01] <daveake> :)
[15:03] <daveake> I call by car a "4 shit" car. Take a passenger into a corner on a track, and listen to them. After you go past the point they think you should brake, the go "Shit!". Normally my braking is around the 4th such ...
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[15:04] <eroomde> nice
[15:04] <Babs> daveake :-)
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[15:14] <griffonbot> Received email: Solar Balloonman "[UKHAS] Re: Solar Pico project."
[15:14] <eroomde> i swear this CA is actually just water in a CA bottle
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[15:17] <HixWork> daveake, did you actually get paid for the A1GP job?
[15:18] <daveake> Surprisingly, yes
[15:18] <HixWork> he knocked virtually everyone in the series
[15:19] <daveake> This was for Pi Research (no relation to RPi of course!)
[15:19] <daveake> Whether they got paid or not I don't know
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[15:20] <HixWork> di you work for Pi? or just a consultancy gig?
[15:20] <Babs> I met his wife once
[15:20] <Babs> Not in a biblical sense
[15:20] <daveake> latter
[15:20] <HixWork> who TT's?
[15:21] <HixWork> ok daveake
[15:21] <Babs> Dude who ran A1GP. She was at a dinner and was running around going "My husband runs A1GP". I failed to get free tickets.
[15:27] <UpuWork> Sci is moving again
[15:27] <UpuWork> took them a while
[15:30] <HixWork> my husband runs A1GP into the ground
[15:31] <HixWork> Tony Texeira
[15:31] <HixWork> sp?
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[15:34] <Babs> That's him. South African dude.
[15:35] <Babs> Even though his name looks like the most American name possible.
[15:37] <eroomde> Hank Ironfist
[15:38] <fsphil> He used to be hard but now he's just rusty
[15:39] <Babs> When I was in chemicals we had a guy working with us called Randy Bender
[15:39] <Babs> (No joke) he said to "Yes yes, I know you Brits find 'Randy' a funny name"
[15:40] <HixWork> I've wokrd with a Dick Spray and a Dick Lovett
[15:40] <eroomde> there was a portugese-indian guy at my school who was called eduardo pissmitten
[15:40] <Babs> snigger
[15:40] <HixWork> heh
[15:40] <Babs> I was best man to Alastair Dick. A Dick.
[15:40] <Babs> His middle name is William. So he's A Willy Dick.
[15:40] <fsphil> aerial installer in this town is called Willy Drips
[15:41] <Babs> He grew up in Limpsfield.
[15:41] <Babs> and his parents house is in Itchingwood Common.
[15:41] <Babs> His Dad is also A Dick (Andrew)
[15:41] <Babs> and his mother is Felicity, but her friends call her Flick. So she is Flick Dick.
[15:42] <Babs> Amazingly he has triumphed over adversity and done OK for himself.
[15:42] <HixWork> *Sprey
[15:42] <Babs> I think Willy Drips wins fsphil
[15:44] <fsphil> I'll have to get a picture of the van sometime
[15:44] <HixWork> There was also a guy from the MOD when working on an armoured vehicle called Major Payne
[15:44] <fsphil> lol
[15:45] <Babs> I interviewed a Dr Doctor once
[15:45] <Babs> I was tempted to scald myself and tell him "Can't you see I'm burning burning".
[15:45] <eroomde> worth it for the joke opportunity
[15:46] <Babs> You can't let those kind of things pass, they come around too rarely
[15:46] <fsphil> worth it for the 'not again' look
[15:47] <Babs> Like the tour guide at Falling Water in the US who pointed at the masonry there and asked me "Do you have stonemasons in your country?"
[15:47] <daveake> http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/funny-names-9.jpg
[15:47] <Babs> "I think we had them before you Sir"
[15:47] <eroomde> i gave some murican friends a tour round oxford on sunday
[15:48] <eroomde> they are caltech and MIT grads
[15:48] <Babs> Even St Catz is older then their country.
[15:48] <Babs> *than
[15:48] <HixWork> Fay King is another, but she was very shy so the opportunity to take the piss never happened
[15:48] <HixWork> Faye
[15:49] <HixWork> dman
[15:49] <eroomde> I said something like, with reference to the stoneowrk on the colleges, 'the more modern colleges had to appease henry the 8th in the 1500s so you've lost all the catholic blah blah etc'
[15:49] <HixWork> oh ffs
[15:49] <eroomde> at which point they fell about
[15:49] <eroomde> at me classifying 1500s as modern
[15:49] <Randomskk> I found this wonderful box of maps accompanying a book in the library
[15:50] <HixWork> daveake, that's gotta win FOREVER!
[15:50] <Randomskk> the book had details on everything of any artistic/architectural interest in cambridge
[15:50] <Babs> (At this point I should say that I love the states and Americans, if you work hard over there it doesn't matter where you come from you can get on in life)
[15:50] <HixWork> bet he's a real C*%$
[15:50] <Randomskk> like, photos and text and all
[15:50] <Randomskk> and the box had these hand drawn maps of a few colleges
[15:50] <Babs> BUT
[15:50] <Randomskk> huge and really really accurate
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> how old?
[15:50] <Randomskk> like, had the individual paving slabs on path ways
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> wow
[15:50] <Randomskk> the areas were drawn in different hatchings to indicate age
[15:50] <fsphil> sure it wasn't just a bad photograph?
[15:50] <Randomskk> with "Modern (After 1850)"
[15:51] <Randomskk> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/jg994n7xqw7qqmc/R2hr2VZp--
[15:51] <Babs> When i drove over there we went into a small town and we asked what there was to visit and a lady said "You need to go to X, they have a house there that is preserved *exactly* as it was 50 years ago, the food, furniture, everything
[15:51] <Babs> I thought "That is my Nan's house"
[15:51] <SpeedEvil> hah
[15:51] <eroomde> yes
[15:51] <Randomskk> the map even has the keep off the grass signs on it
[15:51] <eroomde> i accidently offended someone on the train from chicago -> california
[15:52] <eroomde> when the announcer said there were gold rushers there in 1850 and now it's an archeological site
[15:52] <eroomde> and i asked what it was they were archeologing
[15:52] <Randomskk> hehe
[15:52] <Babs> archeologing - good verb
[15:52] <eroomde> and he repeated the sentence back to me somewhat flippantly
[15:53] <eroomde> 'it was a gold rush shite in the 1850s and now it's an archeological site'
[15:53] <daveake> interesting choice of words there
[15:53] <Babs> I went to an ex-Indian reservation and there were two great signs
[15:53] <fsphil> he's quite rude then
[15:53] <eroomde> and i said, confused, 'yes, but what are the archeologists hoping to study there?'
[15:53] <daveake> shite?
[15:53] <fsphil> ancient poo
[15:53] <Babs> 1. "Native American Indians lived here for over 1000 years until 1850 when they went extinct"
[15:54] <eroomde> and then as if i was a simpleton, very slowly, 'the gold rush site'
[15:54] <eroomde> and i said something like 'but 1850 isn't archeology!?'
[15:54] <Babs> 2. It is a rich site for archaeology. People have excavated flints, pots, tools and other trash"
[15:55] <eroomde> 1850 is the box we found in grandad's attic that we still need to sort through
[15:55] <eroomde> romans is archeology
[15:55] <eroomde> 'well, maybe where you come from'
[15:55] <eroomde> the conversation stalled a bit after that
[15:55] <nick_> I met an archeologist the other night who is looking into human caused climate change from 5000 years ago.
[15:56] <daveake> that was all that shite
[15:56] <fsphil> they where all doing it
[15:58] <eroomde> this CA is taking forever
[15:58] <eroomde> it's stopping me working
[15:58] <eroomde> and the kalman filter is being a shit
[15:58] <eroomde> and it's friday
[15:58] <eroomde> and blah
[15:58] <eroomde> fed up of maths and screen and solder fumes
[15:58] <eroomde> i want beach and a drink
[15:59] <HixWork> ooooh nearly eascape time
[15:59] <eroomde> well not really
[15:59] <eroomde> i want to get this board up
[15:59] <eroomde> it's got a smelly qfn and a smell TCXO
[15:59] <HixWork> brain, mmet fingers. please communicate with one another
[15:59] <eroomde> that was a good mmeting
[16:00] <HixWork> i'm giving up typing
[16:00] <HixWork> :D
[16:01] <eroomde> i'm gonna put on leg warmers and dance around the elctronics lab in the style of flashdance
[16:02] <Babs> I think they wore more than just leg warmers in flashdance eroomde
[16:02] <Babs> fleshdance?
[16:04] <daveake> He's got nothing but a slow glowing dream
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[16:05] <daveake> You know, when it's 5pm on a Friday and you're looking up the lyrics for "What A Feeling" on Google, it's probably a good time to stop.
[16:06] <HixWork> heh - now
[16:07] <Randomskk> it's 5pm friday and I'm thigh deep wading through gaussian process classification and a crying about my lack of training datapoints
[16:07] <Randomskk> sigh
[16:08] <HixWork> I'm modelling SMD parts in Catia so powerpoint looks prettier - wtf???
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[16:19] <nigelvh_> It's 0920 here.
[16:19] <nigelvh_> You all and your 5pm crap
[16:19] <eroomde> fromflashdance to boogie wonderland
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[16:21] <Ugi> Anyone know what happened to sci1? Looks like there's now a second car out to rescue the first rescue-car! Are they likely to post if/when they recover the payload?
[16:25] <Babs> Ugi - live stream from the payload site http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T93HAh-JI8A
[16:26] <Ugi> Thanks Babs, only I can't stream video here at work.
[16:27] <Babs> :-(
[16:27] <Ugi> exactly :-(
[16:28] <arko> morning
[16:28] <eroomde> there is no green wire in the lab
[16:28] <eroomde> for green wire fixes
[16:28] <eroomde> i couldn't believe it
[16:28] <Babs> Morning Arko - you have missed an afternoon full of high quality HAB discussion
[16:28] <eroomde> 'well... we didn't make mistakes in PCBs before i employed you...', said boss
[16:28] <eroomde> that's me told
[16:29] <arko> Babs: have i?
[16:29] Nick change: WILLdude_ -> WILLdude
[16:29] <Babs> arko - ermmmm, no, not really. I think someone mentioned trackers at about 1305 BST and that's about it.
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[16:31] <arko> got my first pico built and working last night
[16:31] <arko> https://twitter.com/arkorobotics/status/335285494055329792
[16:31] <Babs> In summary, as a group we know lots of people with weirdly funny names, eroomde has got solder fum induced fury, dakeake Hixowrk and I discussed racing cars and everything went a bit disco-tastic at about 1630. Eroomde is wearing leg warmers. I am not sure of the attire of everyone else.
[16:31] <arko> on my way out i found another 328P so I built another one
[16:31] <arko> now i have two!
[16:32] <Babs> is that an arko designed board?
[16:32] <chrisstubbs> nice work arko
[16:33] <arko> Babs yes
[16:33] <arko> it's really not complicated or something that hasn't be done before
[16:33] <WILLdude> Hello
[16:33] <Babs> Nice.
[16:33] <Babs> WILLdude in the house.
[16:33] <arko> HX1 + ublox + atmega328
[16:33] <arko> but i needed a starting point for doing picos
[16:34] <arko> next one will be much more wild :)
[16:34] <arko> im launching this after my talk next week
[16:34] <WILLdude> I had a really weird dream, that SR71 Blackbirds crossbreeded with dementors, and then bombed the thames and the channel and multiple landmarks.
[16:34] <arko> brb coffee run
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[16:36] <chrisstubbs> I wonder what defines 'wild' :p
[16:38] <chrisstubbs> trying out the split keyboard on th tablet, the keyboard covers the input box though :(
[16:39] <chrisstubbs> was sci-1 recoveered today?
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[17:10] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/lwKzEVF.jpg
[17:10] <arko> funny thing is that I dont want this house
[17:10] <jarod> where's that?
[17:10] <arko> Los Angeles
[17:10] <jarod> <-- loves the masts ;P
[17:10] <arko> hollywood area
[17:10] <arko> yeah, love the design
[17:10] <arko> but that house puts your right alone the 405
[17:10] <arko> worst freeway in the world
[17:11] <arko> shame, it's a nice house too
[17:11] <arko> http://imgur.com/a/w4fmj#0
[17:11] <arko> pretty cheap house too
[17:11] <arko> 1.2million
[17:12] <arko> for the area
[17:16] <jarod> where i live... is all based on radio reception :P
[17:18] <arko> hah
[17:18] <jarod> http://x264.nl/discone.jpg \o/
[17:18] <arko> nice
[17:21] <arko> you should get a turret dish to pick up sats
[17:21] <arko> :)
[17:21] <arko> i know i would want to do that
[17:22] <jarod> :)
[17:22] <lz1dev> q/fq 17
[17:25] <arko> asl?
[17:25] <arko> q/fq/17 ?
[17:26] <arko> which makes me wonder now how many people here actually remember that
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[17:53] <lz1dev> arko: lol
[17:53] <eroomde> arko: got board powered up
[17:53] <eroomde> seems to work
[17:53] <eroomde> had an issue with tcxo
[17:53] <eroomde> or rather an issue with me making its footprint wrong
[17:53] <eroomde> but fixed now
[17:54] <eroomde> anyway drinks time
[17:54] <eroomde> ttfn
[17:55] <arko> awesome!
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[17:55] <arko> enjoy the drinks!
[17:55] <NickB> http://hackaday.com/2013/05/17/homebrew-gps-gets-%C2%B11-meter-resolution-with-a-raspberry-pi/
[17:55] <arko> i got my pico working yesterday but no one was around to share drinks with
[17:55] <NickB> crazy stuff
[17:56] <arko> yeah
[17:57] <arko> eroomde: did you get a gps fix?
[18:01] <arko> omg
[18:01] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/KiVHlVo.jpeg
[18:01] <arko> hamvention
[18:09] <mattbrejza> http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/local/ruptured-sewer-line-floods-hamvention-flea-market/nMrgb/
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[18:34] <cuddykid> arko: http://ssdv.habhub.org shows a typical british day - cloud, cloud and more cloud :)
[18:34] <arko> oh boy its grey
[18:34] <cuddykid> yes - we endure that for weeks, if not months on end for a few days sunshine :)
[18:35] <fsphil> glorious sunshine here
[18:35] <fsphil> really unexpected
[18:35] <fsphil> a summers day
[18:36] <fsphil> sorry. summer was today
[18:36] <cuddykid> lol
[18:36] <cuddykid> that's it now, have to wait another year
[18:37] <arko> have a few clouds
[18:37] <fsphil> I need a job in a warm country over winter
[18:37] <arko> the heat has been terrible though
[18:37] <arko> fsphil: come to la
[18:37] <fsphil> I'd be afraid of getting a tan
[18:37] <cuddykid> what's the average temp this time of the year arko?
[18:38] <fsphil> but yea la is on my list of places
[18:38] <SpeedEvil> don't Irish people catch fire in the sun?
[18:39] <fsphil> we're so pale it just all gets reflected
[18:39] <cuddykid> that's just a hypothesis, never had enough sun to put it to the test
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[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[18:51] <arko> cuddykid: about 25-30C
[18:51] <arko> but it's been 31-33
[18:52] <cuddykid> nice
[18:52] <cuddykid> I guess it doesn't differ much year round?
[18:53] <cuddykid> we went to california a few years back - was unusually cool apparently - around 20
[18:53] <cuddykid> (this was july)
[18:53] <cuddykid> around LA area
[18:54] <griffonbot> Received email: Geoff Mather "Re: [UKHAS] First Launch - Sci1"
[18:57] <arko> yeah
[18:57] <arko> it's suppose to be colder actually
[18:57] <arko> its 20 at the moment
[18:57] <arko> suppose to be 30 by the end of the weekend
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[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[19:12] <S_Mark> hey lunar
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[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[19:13] <Upu> launching tomorrow Mark ?
[19:14] <S_Mark> Yes hope so, just having some tracker issues - might have to come back with a few queries in a min
[19:14] <Upu> sure
[19:14] <Upu> whats it not doing ?
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[19:15] <Upu> hi Lunar
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> did I tell you my prof is awesome at electronics :)?
[19:15] <Upu> no you didn't but you don't tend to get the Professor part by being crap
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> I like showed him my opamp oscillator I built from a circuit plan
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> and it was switching too fast
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> and he said "you just replace the cap by a foil cap and better get a small signal diode"
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> just after looking at it for a moment
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[19:17] <S_Mark> Well I wanted to add some temperature sensors which seemed pretty straightforward, add it to a free pin, include the onewire and dallas files and its done, easy. Since then the rest of it seems to have given up the ghost - sometimes it wont get a fix at all and additionally the radio will transmit a $ or $$, then like a random .g or something then carryon from the middle of the time column
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> strange
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> got your code somewhere?
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> for example http://paste.ubuntu.com/
[19:19] <bertrik> sounds like a buffer or stack overflow
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:20] <S_Mark> so adding the additional functionality has overrun the space allocated to the buffer?
[19:20] <S_Mark> I'll try increasing them in a sec
[19:21] <fsphil> is it on arduino?
[19:21] <fsphil> that should report a % used value
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[19:22] <S_Mark> Arduino uno
[19:22] <S_Mark> how can I get to that value?
[19:22] <fsphil> when you compile it there should be a report in the output
[19:22] <fsphil> iirc - I rarely use arduino
[19:23] <bertrik> fsphil: isn't that % used of program space? the problem sounds like a *ram* space issue
[19:23] <mattbrejza> i think you have to manually run the command
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, your code?
[19:23] <mattbrejza> itll tell you 'statically' used ram
[19:24] <fsphil> yep, so as long as you're not using malloc() it should be fairly accurate
[19:25] <mattbrejza> it seems really odd that arduino doesnt even tell you device flash usage
[19:25] <fsphil> I've got the size command in my makefile now
[19:25] <fsphil> nice to keep an eye on it
[19:25] <S_Mark> I do do a RAm usage call - ram caused me issues when adding the SD card stuff
[19:26] <mattbrejza> ah, the command is avr-size
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[19:27] <mattbrejza> avr-size -C --mcu=$(MCU_TARGET) $(PRG).elf apparently
[19:28] <fsphil> that's it
[19:28] <mattbrejza> S_Mark: ^
[19:29] <S_Mark> ah great, I will try and see what I can get from that now. Thanks
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[19:40] <bertrik> S_Mark: cppcheck can also be useful to spot silly coding mistakes
[19:40] <S_Mark> where can I find that. I have found avr-size but on the mac not sure where my cpp.elf files are - in windows its in a temp folder in your profile
[19:41] <S_Mark> need the appdata equivalent on the mac, or I will just go upstairs on the desktop lol
[19:41] <bertrik> I only know how to get it with linux or with cygwin
[19:42] <S_Mark> ok
[19:42] <S_Mark> thank you
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[19:56] <Tommo_> Arduino programmed and pin 13 led flickering with what should be RTTY
[19:56] <fsphil> optical communications!
[19:57] <Tommo_> Radiometrix TX ordered, cant wait
[19:57] <Upu> will be shipped Monday thanks for the order Tommo
[19:58] <Tommo_> got the bug now
[19:58] <Upu> lol
[19:58] <fsphil> hopefully the good bug
[19:58] <fsphil> not the bad kind
[19:58] <bertrik> S_Mark: I can run your program through cppcheck if you don't mind pasting it on pastebin (or similar)
[19:58] <chrisstubbs> Raspi is having a bad time running on my bench psu. think there might be some noise issues :P
[19:59] <S_Mark> I will update my github now bertrik
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[20:01] <Tommo_> Upu.. cheers
[20:01] <Ugi> upu: are you supplier of Radiometrix units? Could you post a link? Thanks
[20:02] <Upu> Hey Ugi : http://ava.upuaut.net/store/
[20:02] <Upu> GPS modules and Radio modules please ask if you have any questions
[20:02] <Ugi> Fab - I'll go check it out.
[20:02] <S_Mark> https://github.com/stratodean/Tracker/tree/master/STRATODEAN bertrick
[20:03] <S_Mark> see what you can find out, I think it is a ram issue
[20:04] <Tommo_> he he.. if the TX works then it a GPS module next
[20:04] <bertrik> [rtty.cpp:22]: (error) Buffer is accessed out of bounds.
[20:05] <Upu> TX will work Tommo
[20:05] <bertrik> you print 6 characters in the buffer, but you need another one for the \0
[20:05] <Upu> got anything to receive with ?
[20:05] <Tommo_> yeah an sdr
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[20:06] <S_Mark> chksum_str ?
[20:06] <bertrik> yes
[20:06] <Upu> cool Tommo well we updated the tutorial yesterday as its been wrong for 2 years and no one had noticed
[20:06] <S_Mark> ah because of $$SDEAN
[20:07] <S_Mark> I need it to be 7?
[20:07] <S_Mark> no
[20:07] <fsphil> yea, C strings are terminated with a 0x00 character
[20:07] <fsphil> if the buffer you're writing into has only enough space for the letters, it'll overflow
[20:07] <Upu>  \0
[20:08] <Tommo_> i'm going to be a eal newby , so you guys better get those tutorial sorted out :)
[20:08] <Upu> its sorted now
[20:08] <Tommo_> *real
[20:08] <Upu> its ok Tommo
[20:08] <Upu> everyone here is happy to help just check UKHAS wiki before asking questions :)
[20:08] <bertrik> S_Mark: not sure if that really is the source of the symptoms you see, but this one should definitely be fixed
[20:08] <S_Mark> char chksum_str[7];
[20:09] <bertrik> right :)
[20:09] <Tommo_> I have been listening in... having a laugh at the banter
[20:09] <fsphil> any word on todays flight?
[20:09] <Upu> nothing yet
[20:09] <Upu> he didn't come on IRC much
[20:09] <Upu> where are you based Tommo ?
[20:10] <Tommo_> did it get an altitude record looked pretty high
[20:10] <griffonbot> Received email: STRATODEAN "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - STRATODEAN Two - 18/05/13
[20:10] <Tommo_> Southend-On-Sea
[20:10] <fsphil> you could do your send_byte() loop as a for() loop
[20:10] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] First Launch - Sci1"
[20:11] <Upu> oh interesting I think I took a picture of you on my first launch
[20:11] <Upu> https://www.dropbox.com/s/tvf4y71dbt2edhd/IMG_0248.JPG
[20:12] <S_Mark> for the length of the string? rather than wait til the end of the string?
[20:12] <Tommo_> Thats me on the left
[20:12] <Upu> hope you were waving :)
[20:13] <fsphil> something like, for(; *data != '\0'; data++)
[20:13] <fsphil> then just pass *data to the send_byte() function
[20:13] <Tommo_> I should take that picture to work as the guys there dont see the point
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[20:14] <Upu> Check this Tommo_ : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/Nosebleed/7738891384_bbbf849a5b%20IMG_0876_stitch.jpg taken over Greece by someone on here
[20:15] <Ugi> Upu: I have a heap of ATMega328s, an Adafruit GPS, some cheap SD-card breakouts and some DS18B20s in the garage - if I add an NTX2 does that sound like the makings of a basic payload?
[20:15] <Upu> it does apart from the Adafruit GPS doesn't work above 27km
[20:15] <Upu> so its not much use
[20:15] <Upu> as pretty much any balloon you can launch will exceed that
[20:16] <Ugi> Ah. Oh dear.
[20:16] <Ugi> Guess I look for another then - why 27Km?
[20:16] <Tommo_> Thoose pictures are stunning... even if I showed them to the guys where I work they would swear it was NASA
[20:17] <Upu> not sure they send me a new version which did work above 27km but they've never put it on sale
[20:17] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:adafruitugps
[20:17] <Upu> just get one of the ublox based ones from my shop they work up to 50km
[20:19] <bertrik> S_Mark: did the bug fix help?
[20:20] <Ugi> Sounds like I should do that, although I might check the firmware version as suggested in the link you posted. Thanks.
[20:20] <S_Mark> Yes possibly bertrik, still testing thanks
[20:21] <S_Mark> fsphil ISO C++ forbids comparison between pointer and integer - looks like my C++ still has a while to go
[20:22] <S_Mark> cancel that
[20:22] <S_Mark> " not '
[20:23] <cuddykid> I think that's enough ssdv photos
[20:23] <cuddykid> been on for about 12 hrs!
[20:23] <cuddykid> looks like it works..
[20:25] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, just been playing with how im going to power my pi, the output of my bench supply scrambled all my photos haha
[20:26] <fsphil> S_Mark: aah, *ptr shouldn't be a pointer though. C++ might be funky about it though
[20:26] <fsphil> too many thoughs
[20:27] <chrisstubbs> and i cancelled my overnight test as the pi died before i even went to bed
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[20:28] <Upu> Ugi Adafruit actually asked me to put the notice on there that their modules don't work above 27km as they were getting annoyed customers
[20:28] <Upu> they seem like nice enough people
[20:29] <Ugi> Yes, I think they are, and their stuff is usually pretty good, in my fairly limited experience, but I guess they didn't have this application in mind.
[20:29] <Ugi> I didn't buy it for this, but I was hoping I could get away without needing a new one!
[20:30] <Upu> They sent me the only one they had that could go > 27km and I sort of landed it in the English Channel :)
[20:30] <Upu> not before getting it to 38.5km though
[20:31] <bertrik> there's a beach somewhere where all the gps'es wash up :)
[20:32] <Upu> Wissant in France
[20:33] <Tommo_> i've been searching the net and theres a guy that keeps dumping his payload in the north sea!!
[20:34] <Upu> Well I put one in there but got it back
[20:34] <Upu> Apex Alpha landed in the sea and was recovered a month or two later
[20:34] <Tommo_> how did you get it back... message in a bottle ?
[20:34] <Upu> very cool guy found it on the beach
[20:34] <Upu> boat
[20:34] <Upu> we knew where it was
[20:35] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: I don't know if you answered your question last night, but you should be able to hit alt-F2 (and some others) on the pi console and get another login prompt
[20:35] <mfa298> you should also be able to ssh in if you've enabled it.
[20:35] <chrisstubbs> Oh thanks, i will try that shortly :)
[20:36] <chrisstubbs> Yeah i can SSH in if i need to, but the keybaord is a little easier
[20:36] <mfa298> for starting up the script in rc.local you might want to use "nohup <script> &"
[20:36] <chrisstubbs> that backgrounds it?
[20:37] <mfa298> nohup stop's the script exiting when it doesn't have a terminal and the & puts it the background
[20:37] <chrisstubbs> Will read up on that one too
[20:37] <mfa298> obviously dont include the " and replace <script> with whatever you're trying to run
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[20:38] <mfa298> If you want to get really advanced look at signal handling, syslog and how to daemonize your script (usually requires a call to fork) but that's a bit more advanced.
[20:41] <Tommo_> Just out of interest have any of you guys tracked the telemetry from a weather ballon?
[20:41] <Tommo_> *balloon
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[20:42] <mfa298> Tommo_: there are a few people that track the weather balloons.
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[20:44] <Tommo_> II tracked one the other night for the first time, signal was very strong ... late at night and my wife is starting to despair for me
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[20:59] <cuddykid> lol chrisstubbs
[21:00] <cuddykid> I've got one of these 5V power regs off ebay - hopefully it'll work fine, yet to try though
[21:00] <chrisstubbs> I have been testing with an LDO
[21:00] <chrisstubbs> the first one i tried could only put out 250ma, this one is 1A
[21:00] <chrisstubbs> But the voltage at the pi is only 4.3v so i think thats why the eyetoy is playing up
[21:01] <chrisstubbs> good old high resistance usb cable
[21:02] <mfa298> there do seem to be a range of dodgy usb cables. I've got a couple i got on amazon that are useless for anything
[21:02] <chrisstubbs> theres probably a good reason i found this one cut in half in my draw
[21:03] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid have you just got like a 7805 reg?
[21:03] <cuddykid> one sec, I'll check
[21:03] <mfa298> I've started adding red leccy tape to anything that seems to be dodgy
[21:03] <chrisstubbs> fair idea
[21:04] <chrisstubbs> http://imgur.com/Zg1y6yW thats the kinda photos im getting back from the webcam
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> hi chrisstubbs
[21:04] <chrisstubbs> hey lunar
[21:04] <mfa298> I just have to make sure I don't have good cables that have been coiled up and secured with red tape now
[21:04] <cuddykid> chrisstubbs: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170734419936&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:GB:3160
[21:04] <chrisstubbs> I was JUST looking at one of those
[21:04] <chrisstubbs> looks neat
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[21:05] <cuddykid> yeah, getting clean 5V from it
[21:05] <cuddykid> daveake recommended
[21:05] <chrisstubbs> 1.5-35v @ 3A
[21:06] <cuddykid> not sure whether to set it at 5.0v exactly or just above - don't want the pi to just stop if it drops below 5.0
[21:06] <chrisstubbs> not exactly expensive, think i might get one to have a play with. is this what he used on his pi payload then?
[21:06] <cuddykid> apparently so
[21:06] <chrisstubbs> cool
[21:08] <cuddykid> hoping to use it to power both pi and flight computer
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[21:11] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/tGgcfLKxu-WwtoR-yA9tXtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[21:11] <chrisstubbs> screw microusb
[21:11] <chrisstubbs> stupid connector anyway :P
[21:12] <cuddykid> nice
[21:12] <cuddykid> yeah, I'm hoping to run via gpios or test points
[21:12] <chrisstubbs> thats not mine btw, but i think its a good idea
[21:12] <cuddykid> is there any difference do you know between powering it via the gpio rail or test points?
[21:12] <chrisstubbs> also tempted to put a Vbatt sensor on the GPIO
[21:14] <cuddykid> that's a good idea
[21:15] <Tommo_> with RPi in mind i got spammed by these guys http://www.rapidonline.com/SearchResults.aspx?kw=raspberry+pi they might have something interesting
[21:19] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, webcam is now flawless
[21:19] <chrisstubbs> and teh shifts in frequency under load no longer happen
[21:19] <cuddykid> excellent
[21:19] <cuddykid> with a proper power supply?
[21:19] <chrisstubbs> must have been a voltage drop due to the current through the high resistance USB cable
[21:19] <chrisstubbs> oh the webcams shat itself nevermind
[21:19] <chrisstubbs> but the rtty looks clean
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[21:28] <SP9UOB> evening :-)
[21:31] <chrisstubbs> Hello
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[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> hi SP9UOB
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> we were thinking
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> could you receive a balloon launched from south of Berlin?
[21:34] <x-f> hi, Tom! were you able to recover your pico?
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[21:38] <SP9UOB> x-f: yes... it was... untethered !!! I didnt fount the balloon
[21:39] <SP9UOB> Lunar_Lander: i should receive it
[21:39] <SP9UOB> x-f: yes... it was... untethered !!! I didnt found the balloon
[21:39] <SP9UOB> which is strange...
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:40] <SP9UOB> must slip off the neck
[21:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> <SP9UOB> Will you still be flying tomorrow ?
[21:41] <x-f> interesting
[21:42] <SP9UOB> Geoff-G8DHE: yes, im changing battery now :-)
[21:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> sounds good!
[21:43] <chrisstubbs> SP9UOB, good to hear you got it back!
[21:43] <SP9UOB> could someone clear the map (just SP9UOB)
[21:44] <chrisstubbs> was sci-1 recovered too?
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[21:51] <Upu> no confirmation as yet
[21:52] <Upu> I'll sort it Tom
[21:52] <Upu> you flying again tomorrow ?
[21:52] <SP9UOB> thanks Upu
[21:52] <Upu> oh btw noticed you'd knocked PAVA from ARHAB lightest payload :)
[21:52] <SP9UOB> Upu: yes weather is good, but i need much less gas :-)
[21:52] <Upu> this is a declaration of war you know :)
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[21:53] <SP9UOB> Upu: LOL :-)
[21:53] <SP9UOB> Tracker WAR ;-)
[21:53] <SP9UOB> Tracker WARs ;-)
[21:54] <Upu> I never registered the last one (30g)
[21:55] <SP9UOB> ...and my 24 g ;-)
[21:55] <Upu> is that with antenna ?
[21:55] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PAVA/IMG_1260.JPG
[21:55] <SP9UOB> upu: yes
[21:55] <Upu> meh I'll just have to use an AAA :P
[21:55] <SP9UOB> http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pico/IMG_0125.JPG
[21:56] Action: SP9UOB is using AAA :-)
[21:56] <Upu> ahhh!
[21:56] <Upu> mine has an AA in it :)
[21:56] <SP9UOB> respect ! ;-)
[21:56] <Upu> what duration do you get from an AAA ? ~15 hours ?
[21:57] <SP9UOB> real duramens uses CR2023
[21:57] <SP9UOB> ;-)
[21:57] <Upu> lol
[21:57] <SP9UOB> UPU: about 20 houts
[21:57] <SP9UOB> UPU: about 20 hours
[21:57] <Upu> thats impressive
[21:58] <Upu> I think mine is ~ 17-18 hours at room temp
[21:58] <Upu> from AA
[21:58] <Upu> AAA
[21:58] <SP9UOB> pics are very low power hmm... i cant find the right word
[21:59] <qyx_> cr2032 is not that bad idea though
[21:59] <Upu> Steve's XABEN uses a Pic
[21:59] <nigelvh_> cr2032 can't supply much current.
[21:59] <Upu> and power is about the same as an AVR
[21:59] <SP9UOB> Upu: mine 1.8V Was working more than 50h from AA
[21:59] <qyx_> yes, you cannot probably transmit continuously
[21:59] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/%C2%B5Xaben.JPG
[22:00] <Upu> yeah you get more than I do
[22:00] <number10> all the best payloads use pics
[22:00] <Upu> I think its 50 hours with a MAX7
[22:00] <Upu> ~48 with a MAX6G
[22:00] <SP9UOB> Upu: no MAX6
[22:00] <arko> is than a ADF?
[22:00] <Upu> no thats a PIC
[22:00] <arko> err ADF7012
[22:00] <arko> ok
[22:01] <arko> whats the rf chip on that?
[22:01] <arko> RM22?
[22:01] <S_Mark> can someone approve a flight doc please
[22:01] <Upu> yes
[22:01] <S_Mark> 837baed1e3b49bfc0ff4ad7905d6b9bb
[22:01] <mattbrejza> http://imgur.com/a/Fgesk :P
[22:01] <SP9UOB> it consumes almost no power :-)
[22:01] <arko> ah cool
[22:01] <Upu> yes and Matt wins :)
[22:01] <Upu> however transmission was iffy from that mattbrejza :)
[22:01] <mattbrejza> yea its flown twice though
[22:01] <mattbrejza> although second time not in that case
[22:02] <SP9UOB> i'll bring my toys to the Conference :-)
[22:02] <mattbrejza> its only because i was being diffuilt and trying to save power when i didnt need to
[22:02] <Upu> you are the undisputed champion of light weight payloads
[22:02] <mattbrejza> shame ive lost that payload currently
[22:02] <mattbrejza> i have another gps-less one
[22:02] <Upu> worth trying again
[22:02] <SP9UOB> just one ASIC to rule them all ;-)
[22:03] <Upu> why was the signal ropey ? Antenna ?
[22:03] <mattbrejza> yea
[22:03] <SP9UOB> GPS, tracker, DDS, PA, and stepup :-)
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[22:03] <mattbrejza> i flew again and there was no issues
[22:03] <mattbrejza> when i wasnt trying to get it in a neck of a balloon
[22:03] <Upu> fair enough
[22:04] <mattbrejza> the POP launch in feb/mar that had the tree cut down was using that as a nackup
[22:04] <mattbrejza> backup
[22:04] <Upu> didn't realise
[22:04] <Upu> I thought it had only flown once
[22:04] <Upu> S_Mark, DanielRichman has approved the doc
[22:04] <mattbrejza> its only flown once as a pico
[22:05] <S_Mark> thank you DanielRichman and Upu
[22:05] <Upu> I'll sort tracker out tomorrow morning
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[22:09] <SP9UOB> thanks
[22:09] <SP9UOB> night all
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[22:23] <griffonbot> @stratodean: Late night tracker temperature testing #peasdontleavemeoutallnight #ukhas http://t.co/x6lyX4LUYV [http://twitter.com/stratodean/status/335520861748592640]
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[22:32] Action: bertrik starts listening for weather sondes
[22:32] <chrisstubbs> aha S_Mark i like the hashtags on your photos
[22:32] <S_Mark> haha
[22:33] <S_Mark> Ahh better go and get them back in!
[22:33] <S_Mark> ok back
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, hope all goes well
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> and you are back home for Eurovision
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:37] <S_Mark> Thank you!
[22:38] <S_Mark> Haha I think I will give Eurovision a miss :p
[22:39] <mfa298> what, you don't want to watch everyone not voting for the UK.
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> I wonder about it
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[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> in the first years the UK won quite often
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> even was in the 1969 winner squad :)
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> (in that year, four countries won)
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> and then Irland won 1992-1994 and again in 1996
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> impressive
[22:42] <mfa298> i think we have the problem of having bad acts and/or bad music choice and some political voting goes against us.
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> and the winners are bashed for years after
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> if you check out Ell and Nikki on youtube on eurovision 2011
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> people still comment like today how similar the song was to Atomic Kitten
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> actually do you know how they did it in germany?
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> there is that guy Stefan Raab
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> and he competed in eurovision six times, five times by sending in people and once he sang himself
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> in 2000
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> and he actually scored quite good, like always top ten
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> and as we know, he won with Lena in 2010
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> but the years inbetween
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> in 2004 he sent Max and got 7th place I think
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> in 2005 there was this girl Gracia and she got 0 points in the end
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> that was a smash to the face
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> after 2012 Raab dropped out and the German acts in the preselection were shit again
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> we'll fail tomorrow
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> badly
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> but was astonished that Ireland did not send Jedward again xD
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[23:09] <fsphil> everyone will fail tomorrow
[23:09] <fsphil> even the winner
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> well did you remember Lena singing?
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> that Satellite song
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> was to be "love, oh love"
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> she sang "larf, oh larf"
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> or something like that
[23:12] <griffonbot> @DGAlexander84: RT @stratodean: Late night tracker temperature testing #peasdontleavemeoutallnight #ukhas http://t.co/x6lyX4LUYV [http://twitter.com/DGAlexander84/status/335533326486093826]
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[23:15] <arko> has anyone launched a hab were it's tied like: Balloon -> Payload -> Parachute? such that the parachute would inflate and slow down the ascent rate?
[23:16] <heathkid> I'd just really love to see a photo of how to attach the parashoot between the payload and the balloon...
[23:16] <arko> oh thats easy
[23:16] <arko> get a spherachute
[23:16] <arko> they have an option for a tie point for habs
[23:16] <arko> i think there a uk guy too
[23:17] <arko> forget who
[23:17] <heathkid> I'm in the US
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[23:17] <arko> oh cool
[23:17] <heathkid> but need to figure it out
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[23:17] <heathkid> :)
[23:17] <arko> go with spherachutes
[23:17] <heathkid> I already have a 36" paraschute I was planning to use
[23:17] <arko> http://spherachutes.com/items/spherachutes/list.htm
[23:17] <fsphil> my parachute was tied to the middle last time, but opened
[23:18] <heathkid> well... and a couple of paragliders (but definitely NOT for a first launch)
[23:18] <arko> select the weather balloon attachment
[23:18] <heathkid> what size should I get for a Kaymont 600 launch w/ a 225g payload?
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[23:19] <arko> hmm
[23:19] <arko> 600 maybe a bit too big
[23:19] <arko> 350 aint a bad choice
[23:19] <heathkid> just over 100k ft. in 102 minutes
[23:19] <arko> use the habhub.org/calc
[23:20] <heathkid> fast ascent to burst for first launch
[23:20] Action: heathkid doesn't want a floater just yet... :)
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[23:21] <heathkid> and my 600 just arrived today
[23:21] <arko> well i guess you are going with a 600
[23:21] <heathkid> also have a 1200
[23:21] <fsphil> the problem with the way I did it was it just caused the payload to bounce around a lot
[23:21] <fsphil> why would you want to slow it down?
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[23:22] <heathkid> from all the videos I've watched of a burst... there's not much balloon left is there?
[23:22] <fsphil> depends on the burst
[23:22] <fsphil> if the balloon rips rather than bursts, you get it all back
[23:22] <heathkid> also, inverting the parachute to slow ascent will only work so long before there's not enough air...
[23:23] <fsphil> yea it'll only slow the initial part of the ascent
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[23:23] <arko> i was just wondering about it
[23:24] <fsphil> slowing it down higher up would be great for controlling floats
[23:24] <heathkid> hmm... you could use a bag of fine sand and a cutdown to "burst" the balast
[23:24] <arko> not much ballloon left unless you had a bad balloon like i did http://imgur.com/a/Cbs69
[23:25] <fsphil> I've seen the remains of balloons act like parachutes
[23:25] <heathkid> hmm... I just don't want things to get all tangled up
[23:25] <fsphil> but usually they just bring it down faster
[23:25] <heathkid> and drop like a rock
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[23:27] <fsphil> cutting it down before the expected burst point will give you the cleanest descent
[23:28] <arko> i always wonder where those things land
[23:28] <arko> some random dude just walking
[23:28] <arko> *PLOP*
[23:28] <fsphil> lol
[23:28] <arko> dafuk?
[23:28] <fsphil> ooh man the smell too
[23:28] <arko> the smell sticks to you too
[23:29] <arko> when we got our hab back the first thing i did was shove the balloon in a bag
[23:29] <Randomskk> arko: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak3Q1cHrbFY
[23:29] <arko> tie it off
[23:29] <fsphil> haha, good video that
[23:30] <arko> hahaha!
[23:30] <arko> the music is great
[23:30] <arko> AHAHAHHAHAHA
[23:31] <arko> harmless science experiment
[23:31] <arko> the accident on the road comment
[23:31] <arko> Randomskk: this is gold
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[23:33] <arko> Randomskk: is this your hab?
[23:34] <Randomskk> CUSF's
[23:34] <Randomskk> so yes, essentially
[23:34] <arko> can i used the "harmless scientific experiment" clip in my talk?
[23:34] <Randomskk> we recovered it, though no thanks to them. they also managed to break the gsm tracker by throwing it on the floor, but oh well
[23:34] <arko> i have a slide about safe landing zones
[23:34] <Randomskk> haha if you want
[23:35] <arko> this would be perfect
[23:35] <arko> i need more lulzy things
[23:35] <arko> i dont have a good example
[23:35] <arko> aww
[23:35] <arko> they seem quite angry in the video
[23:36] <Randomskk> when we turned up they were like "oh is the balloon thing yours?" "yup" "oh okay it's just in the office, come get"
[23:36] <Randomskk> they seemed quite friendly about it at the time and we didn't realise anything was amiss
[23:36] <Randomskk> until we got back to the car, opened it up
[23:36] <Randomskk> and found the gsm tracker we'd duct-taped to theinside missing
[23:36] <Randomskk> we were like "uhm wat"
[23:38] <arko> they took it?
[23:38] <Randomskk> you can see them pull it out in the video
[23:38] <arko> "freebees"
[23:38] <Randomskk> there was another camera feed where you can more clearly see it get thrown to the floor
[23:38] <Randomskk> but that had the sponsor's item in it, so yea
[23:38] <Randomskk> anyway when we went back they did go "look" again and "found" it and returned it
[23:38] <Randomskk> so oh well
[23:39] <arko> i dont know how they go "oh this fell out of the sky! free stuff!"
[23:39] <arko> haha
[23:39] <arko> this is great
[23:40] <arko> do we know if a hab has caused an accident before?
[23:40] <arko> i wonder how that would go over in a court
[23:40] <arko> since Habs are legal
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[23:50] <SpeedEvil> arko: there is a freedom of information request somewhere on damages from the met office sondes
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> IIRC three, with a total cost of a grand
[23:51] <arko> ?
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> radiosondes
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> insurance claims against the met office
[23:52] <arko> ah
[23:53] <gonzo_> only one is really verifiable
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[00:00] --- Sat May 18 2013