highaltitude.log.20130516

[00:01] <heathkid> after testing 2 AA's in my APRS tracker... batt voltage is now *higher* than it was when I started testing 20 hours ago!
[00:01] <heathkid> guess I could go to AAA's
[00:02] <heathkid> since I finally found a solution for fast ascent to burst w/ a Kaymont 600 and a 250g payload.
[00:02] <heathkid> I'm excited!
[00:08] <Arithmetic> SpeedEvil, i said i'd do that at 100meg, 500meg and billion (USD) lotto levels..Somehow the "odds" still seem unfair. one of the lawyermediamoguls in the u.s. mentioned that 2 guys in the same d.a. office both "won" huge cash prizes
[00:08] <Arithmetic> (i myself, never bought those tickets)
[00:09] <Arithmetic> odds games can be interesting metaphors however
[00:10] <Arithmetic> i hear von neumann watched some poker games in berlin while first figuring odds which later missile launchers like rand used
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[02:02] Nick change: Arithmetic -> Syria-Us
[02:05] <heathkid> anyone around?
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[02:16] <arko> yes?
[02:22] <heathkid> how are you doing arko?
[02:23] <heathkid> it's been pretty slow tonight
[02:24] <heathkid> here's the calculations using a Kaymont 600 with a 225g payload:
[02:24] <heathkid> Burst Altitude: 31086 m Ascent Rate: 5.09 m/s
[02:24] <heathkid> Time to Burst: 102 min Neck Lift: 999 g
[02:24] <heathkid> Volume: 1.56 m
[02:24] <heathkid> 3
[02:24] <heathkid> 1558 L55.0 ft
[02:24] <heathkid> 3
[02:24] <heathkid> so 102 minutes to burst
[02:24] <heathkid> at over 100k ft.
[02:24] <heathkid> nice! :)
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[02:38] <arko> nice
[02:42] <Syria-Us> how do you Tel when the war is over, heathkid? ;)
[02:42] <Syria-Us> ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_REHDxhfKg&list=PL8242E7D8A9C8445C )
[02:47] Nick change: Syria-Us -> BillionaireBegga
[03:00] <heathkid> you want me to watch a 46 minute long video right now???
[03:04] <heathkid> and the real cold war started with HAB launches...
[03:05] <heathkid> right... not there now?
[03:05] <heathkid> and I've watched that show before... it's old... 1992
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[03:32] Nick change: BillionaireBegga -> wantnothTrdUnsts
[03:34] <heathkid> no one here talking about HAB stuff tonight?
[03:57] <heathkid> nite...
[03:58] Nick change: wantnothTrdUnsts -> TelePrime
[03:59] Nick change: TelePrime -> MultiMind
[03:59] <heathkid> FYI.. at about the 24 hour mark (actually just over by a few minutes...) the 2AA Energizer Ultimate Lithium on my APRS tracker have only dropped to 2.829v. I'm very impressed! Especially considering the calculations put it at a 102 minute launch to burst at over 100k ft.
[03:59] <heathkid> :)
[03:59] Nick change: MultiMind -> Arithmetic
[04:00] <heathkid> that's using a Kaymont 600 with a 225g payload
[04:00] <heathkid> anyway... good night everyone...
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[06:43] <daveake> nicks = nicks - 1
[06:45] <number10> your arithmetic is improving daveake
[06:46] <daveake> random success
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[06:50] <x-f> a million monkeys
[06:50] <x-f> good morning, everybody
[06:50] <daveake> yeah I'm one in a million :p
[06:53] <x-f> hmm, should be 1/7116906850
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[06:55] <eroomde> moratron the tron is on
[06:57] <x-f> power supply question - can i connect two fresh Lithium Energizer AAs to a NCP1402 3.3v step-up, if a fresh battery produces more than 1.5V?
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[07:08] <daveake> The devcice itself will withstand 6V, so that side is OK. The input connects to the output via a schottky diode so Vout will be Vin - the diode drop. 2 very fresh Lithoum AAs will be 3.6V, so I think it will be just fine
[07:10] <arko> morning yall
[07:10] <SpeedEvil_> morning
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[07:16] <x-f> thanks, daveake!
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[07:32] <x-f> i have the Sparkfun's NCP1402 board - https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10967 - from the schematic it has the schottky diode, should be ok, however comments "what if Vin is above 3V?" are left unanswered
[07:33] <UpuWork> datasheet says 6v
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[07:36] <x-f> it says that about Vout too
[07:47] <x-f> "Just remember that experience is directly proportional to the amount of equipment you have ruined." :)
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[08:04] <griffonbot> Received email: Tomasz Brol "[UKHAS] PICO Launch friday 17 or saturday 18 may Heading Norway :-)"
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[08:35] <griffonbot> Received email: Radim Mutina "[UKHAS] Slovakia - STS-3 PICO TEST Flight Announcement Saturday May 18"
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[09:12] <griffonbot> @daveake: Pi weather balloon flight on Bloomberg #raspberry_pi #UKHAS http://t.co/5SaAF1IlWT [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/334959625923350528]
[09:14] <craag> hehe, he's a ballonist (sic)
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[09:16] <daveake> yeah just spotted that!
[09:17] <daveake> lo that he says "put Pis in the hands of children" as it cuts to me and Upu running across the field
[09:17] <daveake> lol
[09:17] <craag> sky children!
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[09:23] <DrLuke> I've read that as piss first. Thanks dirty mind
[09:24] <daveake> If you have raspberry piss you need to see a doc!
[09:24] <DrLuke> lol
[09:25] <costyn> daveake: heh... first time I've heard your voice on video; seeing as the streams are usually mute
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[09:25] <daveake> mute would be better :)
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[09:26] <daveake> So you didn't watch the BBC thing? Shame on you :p
[09:31] <costyn> I can't... iPlayer not supported
[09:31] <costyn> "not available in your country"
[09:31] <daveake> http://www.daveakerman.com/dl/Cracking%20The%20Code%20-%20Weather%20Balloon.wmv
[09:31] <daveake> Grab it from there no restrictions :)
[09:31] <costyn> th
[09:31] <costyn> thx
[09:31] <fsphil> wmv?
[09:31] <daveake> Erm pass can't remember who made it
[09:32] <daveake> Prolly my fault
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[09:40] <alanoakden> Hi All. Sci1 is going to be launched tomorrow at about 10am. Could someone approve the flight doc for me?
[09:41] <UpuWork> hey alanoakden
[09:41] <UpuWork> got a parachute ?
[09:41] <alanoakden> indeed
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[09:41] <UpuWork> and paste the flight doc id on #habhub channel
[09:41] <UpuWork> good luck afk
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[09:47] <kokey> oh, there was a BBC thing?
[09:48] Nick change: daveake__ -> daveake
[09:48] <daveake> Yeah show for BBC Learning, aimed at 8-11 year olds
[09:48] <chris_99> ooh that's really cool daveake, are the images sent over RTTY?
[09:49] <daveake> Yes
[09:49] <daveake> fsphil did all the hard work
[09:49] <kokey> oh, cool, I'll look it up
[09:49] <chris_99> do you have a linky i could look at for more info on that?
[09:49] <kokey> I'm having a strong sense of deja vu here now
[09:50] <daveake> :)
[09:50] <daveake> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01661f7
[09:50] <kokey> daveake: thanks :)
[09:51] <kokey> cool you're in the preview imagine
[09:52] <fsphil> professional balloonist
[09:55] <craag> *ballonist (according to bloomberg)
[09:55] <daveake> lol
[09:56] <kokey> quick, someone send dave a tenner so he can be a professional like steve
[09:56] <kokey> imagine=image
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[10:25] <costyn> kokey: haha
[10:25] <costyn> daveake: nice BBC video
[10:26] <daveake> cheers
[10:26] <daveake> was fun
[10:26] <costyn> maybe we should change the instructiions on the payload generator to have people go to #habhub to ask for flight approvements
[10:26] <daveake> number10 was still rxing that one on the ground
[10:26] <costyn> it still says one should go to #highaltitude
[10:26] <costyn> yea... MomDB
[10:26] <costyn> :)
[10:29] <number10> :)
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[12:07] <cuddykid> hm - the data sheet doesn't tell me which is gate, source or drain - http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irl520npbf.pdf
[12:07] <cuddykid> am I right in assuming from left to right it's gate, drain, source? Or is that not a clever assumption to make?!
[12:10] <fsphil> page 8
[12:10] <fsphil> it labels the pins
[12:11] <fsphil> your assumption was right
[12:11] <fsphil> the tab is drain too
[12:11] <SpeedEvil> also
[12:11] <SpeedEvil> diode test
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> this will get you source and drain
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> then a 9v battery will tell you if it's n or p channel
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> (does not work for depletion mode FETs)
[12:14] <cuddykid> ah yes, so it does fsphil - silly me!
[12:15] <daveake> They seem to have tried hard to hide it
[12:16] <cuddykid> usually it's clear on the front page
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[13:10] <W0OTM> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iND7ka54sqw
[13:18] <Babs> Polystyrene envy
[13:18] <fsphil> nice cloud layers
[13:19] <fsphil> overselling the "space" bit though :)
[13:20] <HixWork> I miss 35mm film cannisters
[13:21] <cuddykid> directed someone called Bilal over to this channel - he's hoping to launch a balloon in 2 months time but doesn't sound like he knows much about HAB& prepare for an onslaught of questions
[13:21] <mattbrejza> hmm america doesnt seem to have wind
[13:21] <HixWork> grits and refried beans gonna change that
[13:24] <Babs> Blazing saddles. Phenomenal.
[13:25] <fsphil> grits?
[13:25] <Brace> hmmm grits and refried beans
[13:25] <Babs> sort of crisp things
[13:25] <fsphil> aah
[13:26] <Babs> Brace - I read that in Homer Simpson's voice.
[13:26] <Brace> Babs: probably accurate
[13:26] <Brace> that's about my mental level
[13:26] <Babs> How are kids these days going to learn how to get steadily blind drunk without the assistance of 35mm film canisters
[13:26] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] BABSHAB launch - Great Tew, Saturday 25th May-Monday 27th
[13:27] <daveake> Might be doing a Pi launch on the 26th, but not at 7am :)
[13:28] <fsphil> six?
[13:28] <daveake> higher, higher
[13:28] <fsphil> six pm?
[13:28] <daveake> lower, lower
[13:29] <fsphil> close enough
[13:29] <fsphil> that's my usual launch estimate
[13:29] <daveake> :)
[13:30] <cuddykid> daveake: talking about pi - did you run into problems running the python script (if you went for a python script) on startup?
[13:30] <HixWork> drunk on 35mm Brace?
[13:31] <daveake> cuddykid Nope :)
[13:31] <cuddykid> hm
[13:31] <cuddykid> daveake: did you use PySerial/
[13:31] <daveake> The only Python was to poke the position into Habitat
[13:31] <cuddykid> ah
[13:31] <daveake> And that wasn't started until after it got 3G connected
[13:32] <Brace> HixWork: nope, staring down the barrel of a 5 hour file server migration, to be started at 1700 this afternoon
[13:33] <HixWork> No, i was asking how
[13:33] <Brace> oh
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[13:34] <Brace> oddly, I've never been into photography
[13:36] <Brace> I'm assuming you're talking about using 35mm film cannisters as shot glasses?
[13:37] <HixWork> film cannisters were ftw
[13:37] <Brace> missed that one :D
[13:38] <HixWork> ahh nope. I've used them as mountaineering ashtrays though :)
[13:38] <HixWork> photos and footprints and all that
[13:39] <Babs> Brace - exactly. But with beer. 1 a minute filled with beer, for 100 minutes.
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[13:40] <chris_99> heh, we tried that at uni, with shot glasses, and failed heh
[13:40] <Babs> Coors Light. Easy. Stella. Not so easy.
[13:40] <chris_99> it's suprisingly hard
[13:40] <Babs> My mate was at Harvard and they did a case study on American "Light" beer.
[13:41] <Babs> Apparently they invented it to enable people to drink more for longer without getting drunk.
[13:41] <chris_99> what % is light beer?
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[13:41] <Babs> Best bit of the whole lecture was apparently when this German guy got called to give his opinion
[13:41] <Babs> and he said
[13:41] <dshaw_> hey everyone, has anyone in the USA used the ntx2 for high altitude balloon projects :X?
[13:42] <Babs> "Personally, I vould be embarrassed to drink zis beer in front ov my girlfriend zo I do not hav ein opinion"
[13:42] <Babs> (with apologies to Allo Allo for my poor typed German accent)
[13:42] <chris_99> heh
[13:43] <Babs> 4.2%, about 20-25% below normal.
[13:44] <chris_99> aha
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[13:47] <craag> dshaw_: I think there's a few that use it, in addition to aprs.
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[13:47] <nick_> American "light" beer is generally higher alcohol than ales. I thought it was meant to be "light" based on calories, not alcohol.
[13:47] <craag> dshaw_: It has the advantage of ~10 second position updates, over ~10 minutes with aprs.
[13:48] <nick_> It's sad that beers are advertised as low calorie..
[13:48] <craag> But doesn't use the existing aprs network of course.
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[13:48] <dshaw_> craag: great to hear! i'm trying to launch my tracker right now that utilizes the ntx2, but i'm unable to figure out about FCC compliance and if it's even legal for me to launch using the ntx2
[13:48] <dshaw_> craag: contacted the FCC, distributor and manufacturer of the ntx2 :(
[13:49] <craag> dshaw_: I take you don't have a ham license, that's why you're using the NTX2?
[13:49] <Babs> nick - don't know. Development based on being able to drink more without getting fat would seem to be a more admirable goal.
[13:49] <craag> Should be fine legally for the RF as 10mW.
[13:50] <mattbrejza> yea 433 isnt ISM in the US
[13:50] <dshaw_> craag: Unfortunately, I do not. I do have a way to contact someone that does, though, and they could accompany and thus I could use their callsign, but they want to know that the ntx2 requires one first and which jurisdiction it falls under
[13:50] <mattbrejza> or at least not that we coul;d find the other day
[13:50] <craag> mattbrejza: ah
[13:50] <mattbrejza> but other stuff is ISM
[13:50] <craag> darn, I thought it was.
[13:50] <mattbrejza> theres the 902-928 band
[13:50] <craag> other stuff?
[13:51] <craag> oh
[13:51] <craag> might jsut be easier to find a ham though..
[13:51] <mattbrejza> no 910 rfm?
[13:53] <craag> Well receivers start to be more difficult then
[13:53] <mattbrejza> http://atlascompliance.com/pdf/18301.pdf is where the regs state it
[13:53] <mattbrejza> 915 saw filter on the habamp
[13:53] <mattbrejza> scanner
[13:54] <craag> dshaw_: So basically, you can't use the NTX2, at least not without a ham license.
[13:55] <craag> There are other license-exempt bands, which you can see in the doc linked.
[13:55] <mattbrejza> from the fcc specs: 'ISM equipment operating on a frequency specified in X is permitted *unlimited* radiated energy in the band specified for that frequency
[13:56] <mattbrejza> '
[13:56] <mattbrejza> hmm
[13:56] <craag> ermm wat
[13:56] <craag> :O
[13:56] <mattbrejza> they only specify power for outside of the ISM band
[13:56] <mattbrejza> as in the spurious
[13:56] <fsphil> so with proper filtering you could transmit 100 watts?
[13:56] <mattbrejza> would seem so
[13:56] <fsphil> hah
[13:57] <mattbrejza> no BW requirements either it seems
[13:57] <mattbrejza> UpuWork: ^ (we were talking about this the other day)
[14:00] Action: craag starts looking at work visas
[14:00] <mattbrejza> seems fun :/
[14:00] <mattbrejza> well at least the 'holiday' should be
[14:02] <mattbrejza> dshaw_: if you wanted a non-ham transmitter see if you can get a 915MHz rfm22b
[14:03] <mattbrejza> but recievers are a bit more interesting
[14:03] <craag> It might be a good idea to team up with a ham for using an APRS backup.
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: microwave oven magnetrons are available at 915
[14:05] <mattbrejza> interseting
[14:05] <mattbrejza> would need one reasonably sized battery...
[14:06] <craag> lol
[14:07] <craag> apparently quite legal in the UK though :P
[14:07] <craag> *USA
[14:07] <craag> not UK
[14:11] <fsphil> someone in an OFCOM office just spat their tea all over their keyboard
[14:12] <fsphil> at least they don't have rules on visible light yet
[14:12] <craag> hehe, new keyboard for baldock then
[14:14] <fsphil> "You mean people can transmit information through 'the air' without a license?! this ... 'sound' needs to be regulated immediatly."
[14:15] <HixWork> the've already done that no? Anti terrorsim act covers anything where OFCOM fails
[14:21] <dshaw_> craag: mattbrejza: thanks for all the info. it seems the FCC isnt too clear at this freuqnecy. even if i do acquire a HAM license, I want to make sure I can use this range for my purpose
[14:24] <mattbrejza> there is nothing wrong with 434 as far as being in the HAM band goes
[14:24] <fsphil> shame there isn't a universal ISM band
[14:24] <craag> fsphil: there's 2.4GHz :P
[14:24] <fsphil> oh yea
[14:24] <mattbrejza> ISM is reasonably similar across regions
[14:25] <mattbrejza> only 434/868/915 are different it seems
[14:25] <mattbrejza> (According to wiki)
[14:26] <mattbrejza> dshaw_: hams fly 434 no issue
[14:26] <mattbrejza> prboably best you speak to them in case there is any slight issues that need addressing though
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[14:32] <chris_99> you guys seen http://thepihut.com/products/raspberry-pi-camera-module
[14:33] <fsphil> have one sitting on my desk right now
[14:33] <chris_99> nice :)
[14:33] <chris_99> thats cool it can do 1080p too
[14:33] <fsphil> I'd hoped to put it in my nest box, but too late now
[14:34] <mattbrejza> http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1063
[14:34] <fsphil> so it'll probably end up on a balloon
[14:34] <mattbrejza> http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1005 rather
[14:36] <chris_99> cool :)
[14:36] <chris_99> is there any video from one
[14:37] <mattbrejza> youtube...
[14:38] <fsphil> with such a small lense I don't think it's going to be that good
[14:39] <chris_99> i got a tiny keychain camera from china that does 720p and it's not actually that bad
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[15:40] <chrisstubbs> Afternoon all
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[15:43] Nick change: craag_ -> craag
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[15:51] <fsphil> evenin'
[15:52] <LazyLeopard> afternoon
[15:52] Action: LazyLeopard declares the lawn mown.
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[15:53] <fsphil> and it was good
[15:53] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[15:53] joph (~joph@foo.kueni.stw.uni-erlangen.de) joined #highaltitude.
[15:53] <LazyLeopard> Hadn't been mown for a month or more, 'cos I fled the country to get some warmer weather down under last month.
[15:54] <fsphil> isn't it winter there now?
[15:54] number10_ (569e9134@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.158.145.52) joined #highaltitude.
[15:54] <LazyLeopard> Autumn, but they'd had the warmest April on record.
[15:54] <fsphil> typical
[15:54] <LazyLeopard> ...at least in Perth.
[15:55] <LazyLeopard> ...and though it was warm here my first couple of days back, most of the last week has been chillier than it ever was there.
[15:55] <fsphil> it's been unusually cold this week
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[15:55] <fsphil> we had some sleet last weekend
[15:56] <LazyLeopard> ..and for the most part even here it's either been raining, or just stopped raining, or just about to rain, and windy with it.
[15:56] <LazyLeopard> More like March than May.
[15:56] number10 (d42c14ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.44.20.206) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[15:57] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
[15:57] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... Short bit about HAB in this month's RadCom. Presume I'm the last to notice it.
[16:00] <fsphil> when was that issue out?
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[16:01] <chrisstubbs> hahahah just seen the rsgb's new site.... this is what all the hype was about...
[16:01] <fsphil> yea it's awful
[16:02] <fsphil> half the links didn't work for me last time I was on it
[16:02] <fsphil> give up
[16:02] <craag> chrisstubbs: Yep, I despise it
[16:05] <chrisstubbs> Rory cellan-jones gets slated on his twitter too, my day is taking a turn for the better
[16:06] <LazyLeopard> fsphil: landed on my doormat yesterday.
[16:07] <fsphil> LazyLeopard: ah, then it's probably arrived here today.
[16:08] <LazyLeopard> Page 11, when you get to it.
[16:08] <LazyLeopard> fsphil: Which links?
[16:09] <fsphil> I couldn't get to the band plan LazyLeopard, it kept bringing me to a 404 page
[16:10] <craag> fsphil: Use google, it's honestly a better homepage!
[16:10] <fsphil> hasn't caught up yet craag
[16:10] <fsphil> it returns http://www.rsgb.org/committees/spectrumforum/band-plans.php
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[16:11] <fsphil> rgsb's own search returns pages that 404
[16:11] <craag> fsphil: Dang yeah, it worked the other day.
[16:11] <fsphil> http://rsgb.org/main/operating/band-plans/
[16:11] <fsphil> that page exists
[16:11] <craag> grr <rsgb rant />
[16:11] <fsphil> but the link on it 404's
[16:11] <LazyLeopard> [iframe src="http://www.rsgb.org/main/committees/spectrumforum/docs/rsgb_band_plan_2013.htm" scrolling="yes" name="myframe" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="800"]
[16:12] <craag> their radcom past-issue viewer is horrible!
[16:12] <LazyLeopard> They just flipped from rsgbbeta.org to rsgb.org. That iframe would have worked while it was rsgbbeta.org...
[16:12] <craag> darn, that escaped the tags
[16:12] <fsphil> iframes
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[16:12] <fsphil> sheesh
[16:16] <LazyLeopard> It's called "dragging dinosaurs into the recent past, kicking and screaming" ;)
[16:17] <fsphil> who did the HAB story, someone here?
[16:17] <craag> fsphil: If it's the one that was in the Club Newsletter, it was WUSAT.
[16:17] <craag> Mainly about their use of 868
[16:18] <fsphil> ah
[16:18] <LazyLeopard> Seems to have come from AMSAT
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[16:23] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] iHAB-10 Launch - Recap"
[16:23] <mattbrejza> hmm ft/min :/
[16:23] <mattbrejza> eww
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[16:33] <Uggy_> Dear all, I'm new and try to understand the voltage calculation for NTX2 TXD pin described on http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2?s[]=ntx2
[16:34] <Uggy_> In fact I look a http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:ntx2_voltage_divider_equation.png?id=guides%3Alinkingarduinotontx2
[16:34] <Uggy_> and I don't understand calculation described.
[16:34] <Uggy_> I understand formula for RXD High (even if I find 2.76V instead of 2.71)
[16:34] <Uggy_> but I don't understand descrived formula for RXD Low. Formula don't use resistance in // and ignore R3.
[16:34] <Uggy_> But for Low level, R3 still exist in // with R4.
[16:34] <Uggy_> Does someone can give me some details ? Where is my mistake ? Or does the mistake is on the wiki ?
[16:34] Nick change: Uggy_ -> Uggy
[16:36] <Randomskk> Uggy: interesting. you are right
[16:36] <Randomskk> but
[16:36] <Randomskk> perhaps RXD1 actually goes high impedance
[16:36] <Randomskk> which would be like disconnecting it and thus not leave R3 in parallel
[16:36] <Randomskk> but
[16:36] <Randomskk> the code doesn't do that
[16:37] <Randomskk> so yes
[16:37] <Uggy> Randomskk: thx to look on it
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[16:38] <mattbrejza> also the TXD/RXD notation is really confusing
[16:39] <Randomskk> also for some reason they've written R3 = 20K + 4.7K = 24.7K
[16:39] <Randomskk> but like, the diagram shows it as 20K
[16:39] <Uggy> looking on previous revision.. I think I could understand the possible mistake added
[16:39] <Uggy> yes for 2 resistance in // they writed R1 + R2 like R1 // R2
[16:40] <Uggy> but then someone else changed "spirit" of this
[16:40] <Uggy> and take really + as serial instead of //
[16:41] <mattbrejza> RXD1 needs changing to GPIO or something else
[16:41] <mattbrejza> RXD is just wrong
[16:42] <Randomskk> yes
[16:42] <Randomskk> it's very confusing
[16:42] <Randomskk> well
[16:42] <Randomskk> I mean it's very unclear
[16:42] <mattbrejza> shotgun not editting
[16:42] <Randomskk> also shotgun
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[16:42] <Randomskk> I don't even have eagle
[16:42] <Randomskk> the equation is unclear and wrong too
[16:42] <mattbrejza> i was going to ms paint it
[16:42] <mattbrejza> (if i were)
[16:43] <Uggy> so you both confirm formula for RXD Low is wrong ?
[16:43] <Randomskk> yes
[16:43] <Uggy> ok thanks
[16:43] <mattbrejza> resistors seem right though
[16:43] <Randomskk> you're right, it should be (R3||R4)/((R3||R4)+R5)
[16:43] <Uggy> should one of us change the wiki ?
[16:43] <Randomskk> ideally yes
[16:43] <Uggy> ok..
[16:43] <Randomskk> but redoing the equations in latex is annoying
[16:43] <Randomskk> and redrawing the circuit diagram is too
[16:43] <Randomskk> so, hmm
[16:44] <mattbrejza> also that equation is an image rather than wiki formulas
[16:44] <Randomskk> yea but idk if that wiki even does formulas
[16:44] <mattbrejza> i tihnk is an addon
[16:44] <Uggy> why not just scan a paper ?
[16:44] <Randomskk> could do
[16:44] <Uggy> I agree it's not perfect.. but..will be fast :)
[16:45] <Randomskk> ok fine I'll bite ;)
[16:45] <Randomskk> one minute
[16:45] <Uggy> until someone brave will use Latex
[16:45] <mattbrejza> also call RXD someting else while youre at it
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[16:45] <Uggy> Also, does the internal resistance of the NTX2 should be take in consideration ?
[16:46] <Uggy> on the datasheet I read 100K
[16:46] <mattbrejza> yea, but its not that much of an issue when its in parallel with a 4K7 resistor
[16:46] <Uggy> ok I see
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[16:49] <Uggy> with these resistance values, I get 1000 Hz shift (for 5V VCC) and 700Hz shift (For 3.3 V Vcc)
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[16:50] <Uggy> but the wiki say: should be kept in the 300-600Hz region.
[16:50] <Uggy> could you explain ?
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[16:51] <Uggy> or may be I'm wrong somewhere ?
[16:51] <mattbrejza> if its too wide youll have to tune the radio mor eoffen
[16:54] <Uggy> ok.. but.. what is correct ? resistor values (1000Hz shift) or 300-600Hz region (resistance value wrong) ?
[16:54] <Uggy> or does the shift in true life is not what we get from calculation ?
[16:55] <Uggy> due to other factors
[16:55] <Uggy> Or does my shift calculation are wrong ?
[16:56] <Randomskk> no, I get 1056Hz shift too
[16:56] <Randomskk> from a 5V supply
[16:56] <Randomskk> lol
[16:56] <Uggy> ok ;)
[16:57] <Uggy> I get 1051Hhz :)
[16:57] <Randomskk> close enough
[16:57] <Uggy> yes ;)
[16:58] <mattbrejza> http://i.imgur.com/OwYP4wt.gif
[16:59] <Randomskk> ugh :P
[16:59] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/ntx2_divider.jpg
[17:00] <mattbrejza> yours does explain it better
[17:00] <mattbrejza> but probably want to link to it rather than have it on the page
[17:01] <Uggy> you are so fast guys ! :)
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[17:02] <Uggy> I like https://randomskk.net/u/ntx2_divider.jpg very much
[17:03] <Uggy> this is what I would have read ! :)
[17:03] <Randomskk> in conclusion, this circuit gives too big a shift
[17:03] <Randomskk> and I don't know why the wiki page on it is so wrong
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[17:04] <mattbrejza> does this wiki support comments?
[17:05] <mattbrejza> so i can dump my latex in one
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[17:05] <mattbrejza> alongwith the link to the online render
[17:05] <mattbrejza> er
[17:05] <Randomskk> don't think so
[17:05] <Randomskk> Upu: around?
[17:06] <Upu> yup here
[17:06] <Randomskk> to summarise, the ntx2 linking article on the wiki seems to have a circuit that gives 1kHz shift
[17:06] <Randomskk> and also the equations for it are wrong
[17:06] <Randomskk> but presumably the circuit does actually work
[17:06] <Randomskk> so what gives
[17:06] <Upu> hmm well when I wrote it the shift based on 5V gives ~ 400-500 hz
[17:07] <Upu> the equations I didn't do
[17:07] <Randomskk> that's a 20k resistor and two 4k7 resistors?
[17:07] <Upu> yeah
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[17:07] <Randomskk> weird
[17:07] <Upu> but your maths would indicate different
[17:07] <Randomskk> might be missing something
[17:08] <Randomskk> if you assume that setting the arduino pin low disconnects it, then you don't get R3 in parallel, and then you get the right voltage shift, maybe
[17:08] <Upu> I'll test it shortly I have an NTX here
[17:08] <chrisstubbs> Just built one with 2x 2k7 and a 20k and it is indeed 425ish shift
[17:08] <chrisstubbs> *4k7
[17:08] <Randomskk> yea, so if for arduino pin LOW you assume you just have 4k7/(4k7+4k7), i.e. the 20k goes away, you get 2.5V at the ntx2
[17:09] <Randomskk> chrisstubbs: what code is your arduino running?
[17:09] <Randomskk> just digitalWrite HIGH/LOW?
[17:09] <chrisstubbs> raspberry pi
[17:09] <Randomskk> ok
[17:09] <Upu> I'll do it with an Arduino in 10 mins
[17:09] <Randomskk> but it's just setting it high/low?
[17:09] <chrisstubbs> just bashing out the 8 bit serial daya
[17:09] <Upu> just having a shower
[17:09] <chrisstubbs> ugh typing is not going well today..
[17:10] <chrisstubbs> so yeah high/low
[17:10] <Uggy> raspberry is 3.3V -> shift should be 700Hz from calculation
[17:10] <Upu> internal 100k Randomskk
[17:10] <Randomskk> the internal 100k shouldn't have any effect I don't think
[17:10] <Upu> k
[17:10] <Upu> brb
[17:10] <Uggy> yes 100K does not change a lot
[17:10] <Randomskk> it all makes sense if when the input is low, the 20k resistor goes away
[17:10] <Randomskk> but it shouldn't go away I don't think
[17:10] <Randomskk> nominate mattbrejza to explain :P
[17:11] <mattbrejza> well equation is now correct
[17:11] <mattbrejza> and Randomskk 's picture explains it nicely
[17:11] <Uggy> No, if low input, I don"t understand why 20K will go away... ?
[17:11] <Randomskk> mattbrejza: but my maths disagrees with reality
[17:11] <Randomskk> because the circuit as drawn gives a 420Hz shift or so
[17:11] <Uggy> 20K // 4.7K
[17:11] <Randomskk> not a 1kHz shift
[17:11] <mattbrejza> so those resistors give different voltages?
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[17:12] <Randomskk> chrisstubbs: do you have a multimeter or oscilloscope?
[17:12] <chrisstubbs> yeah both
[17:12] <chrisstubbs> scope ios kinda hard to get to though
[17:13] <Uggy> if gpio is low.. it means R3 is connected to ground.. so R3//R4
[17:14] <mattbrejza> yep
[17:14] <Uggy> I have to leave for 1hour guys.. thank you very much for your fast investigating with me..
[17:15] <mattbrejza> np
[17:15] <Uggy> I will be back in 1 hour our so to read what you said ;)
[17:15] <Randomskk> chrisstubbs: if you get a minute it'd be interesting to see what the voltage at the NTX2's TXD pin is, for a 0 or a 1 from the rpi
[17:16] <Randomskk> because something slightly odd is going on :P
[17:16] <chrisstubbs> Randomskk, ok i will give it a go
[17:16] <chrisstubbs> http://i.imgur.com/H0CdKfQ.jpg
[17:16] <chrisstubbs> fldigi screeendump
[17:16] <chrisstubbs> circuit is identical to the one on ukhas
[17:17] <chrisstubbs> let me get the scope out...
[17:17] <Uggy> chrisstubbs: your are on Pi , so 3.3V ?
[17:18] <Uggy> be back soon..thx..
[17:18] <Upu> ok making the circuit just need to find the resistors
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[17:21] <chrisstubbs> the ntx2 is connected up like: http://i.imgur.com/vXmCBxR.png
[17:21] <mattbrejza> Randomskk's image ha sbeen added
[17:22] <Randomskk> thanks
[17:22] <Randomskk> be nice if it worked though
[17:23] <Randomskk> chrisstubbs: what voltage is the pi uart outputting?
[17:23] <mattbrejza> well i still ahve the latex window open should someone suggest some better values
[17:23] <Randomskk> 1v8? 3v3? 5v?
[17:23] <mattbrejza> itll be 3.3V id say
[17:23] <chrisstubbs> about to check
[17:23] <mattbrejza> the only thing 5V is USB
[17:23] <chrisstubbs> im taking teh 5v from the GPIO header
[17:23] <mattbrejza> and everyone wuld have a moan if it were 1.8V
[17:23] <Randomskk> everyone does have a moan, I thought it had a ton of 1v8 io
[17:24] <mattbrejza> oh
[17:24] <mattbrejza> i dont actually read rpi forums
[17:24] <Randomskk> might be wrong, i don't either
[17:24] <chrisstubbs> errr
[17:24] <mattbrejza> 'GPIO voltage levels are 3.3 V and are not 5 V tolerant. There is no over-voltage protection on the board'
[17:24] <chrisstubbs> what ascii char has a binary value of 11111111?
[17:24] <mattbrejza> http://elinux.org/RPi_Low-level_peripherals
[17:24] <Randomskk> lol
[17:24] <Randomskk> chrisstubbs: problematically you'll have start and stop bits too
[17:25] <chrisstubbs> darn
[17:25] <Randomskk> also all the printable chars are 0-127 so have the first bit set to 0
[17:25] <chrisstubbs> thats the easy method out the window
[17:25] <Randomskk> better to try and write the I/O high or llow
[17:25] <Upu> 2.140
[17:25] <Randomskk> rather than tx a byte
[17:25] <Randomskk> or use a scope
[17:25] <Upu> 2.596
[17:25] <Randomskk> Upu: haha what
[17:25] <chrisstubbs> will have to scope it after dinner
[17:25] <Upu> hmm
[17:25] <Randomskk> you might wanna measure your resistors
[17:25] <Randomskk> and your voltage supply
[17:26] <Upu> did do
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[17:26] <Upu> haha
[17:26] <Upu> give me a sec :)
[17:26] <SP9UOB> evening All
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[17:29] <Upu> ok confused :)
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[17:31] <Randomskk> maybe do it without the avr or ntx2 and just wire the input pin to + or - and measure the output to start with
[17:31] <mattbrejza> brb
[17:31] <Upu> ok you're correct that doens't work
[17:31] <Randomskk> that really should work
[17:32] <Upu> gettng about 0.5v deviation
[17:33] <Randomskk> with an AVR and an NTX2?
[17:33] <Upu> not using AVR yet
[17:33] <chrisstubbs> my scope is a bit old and useless for serial
[17:33] <Randomskk> what frequency shift are you getting?
[17:33] <chrisstubbs> anyway dinnertime, brb
[17:33] <Upu> just putting the TXD in to ground/VCC
[17:33] <Upu> via 20k
[17:34] <Randomskk> right
[17:34] <Upu> what you'd expect with 0.5v
[17:34] <Upu> ~900
[17:34] <Randomskk> ok
[17:34] <Upu> hang on
[17:34] <Upu> just tring to find a 47k resistor
[17:41] <Upu> 44k
[17:42] <Upu> gives about 400 shift 2.313 / 2.558
[17:44] <Randomskk> lol
[17:44] <Randomskk> so
[17:44] <Randomskk> what
[17:44] <Upu> gives about 300 shift @ 3.3v
[17:44] <Upu> so what indeed
[17:44] <Randomskk> glad to hear I'm not just crazy
[17:44] <Randomskk> is this with an AVR though?
[17:44] <Upu> no 1 sec
[17:46] <Upu> near as dammit 400Hz
[17:47] <Randomskk> with the 44k?
[17:47] <Randomskk> on an vr?
[17:47] <Randomskk> avr
[17:47] <Upu> yup
[17:47] <Randomskk> how about with the 20k?
[17:47] <Randomskk> I mean, I can guess...
[17:47] <Randomskk> but I don't see how that page has stayed up if that circuit and that code gives you 1kHz shift
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[17:50] <Upu> I have no idea
[17:51] <Upu> I'm trying to work out where the 22k crept in
[17:52] <Upu> as it was 47k on my actual boards
[17:52] <mattbrejza> ill change it in a mo
[17:52] <Upu> I can sort it if you want mattbrejza its my fault
[17:53] <Upu> ahem
[17:53] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/guides:linkingntx2-2.jpg?cache=
[17:53] <Upu> check the colour banding on the resistor there
[17:53] <Randomskk> yea
[17:53] <Randomskk> I was looking at that
[17:53] <Randomskk> and thinking "hmmm"
[17:54] <Randomskk> then I got distracted
[17:54] <Upu> 47k
[17:54] <Upu> wierd sorry everyone
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[17:54] <Upu> who noticed it ?
[17:54] <Randomskk> Uggy noticed that the maths didn't make sense
[17:54] <Randomskk> I suspect maybe someone thought 20k, then the maths didn't work, then they did a Thing to the maths so it "worked"
[17:54] <Randomskk> or w/e
[17:54] <Upu> congrats Uggy
[18:00] <Upu> I'll fix image later
[18:07] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj4qVYdpVz0&feature=youtu.be
[18:07] <Upu> from earlier sorry Youtube was being slow
[18:08] <Upu> your diagram is ace Randomskk :)
[18:09] <Randomskk> might redo it for 47k
[18:09] <mattbrejza> Upu: ill fix it as i have the latex open in front of me
[18:09] <Randomskk> but dinner time
[18:10] <Upu> ok thx I redid the schematic
[18:10] <mattbrejza> :)
[18:11] <mattbrejza> id put 47K on the schematic tbh
[18:11] <mattbrejza> as its a resistor people have
[18:11] <Upu> ok
[18:12] <Upu> 32k works for 3.3v
[18:12] <Upu> ish
[18:14] <mattbrejza> 33k is the standard one?
[18:14] <mattbrejza> latex updated
[18:16] <mattbrejza> source: http://pastie.org/7917139
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[18:18] <Upu> grr stupid caching
[18:18] <cuddykid> excellent - new logic level fet does the trick for cutdown firing :)
[18:18] <daveake> :)
[18:18] <cuddykid> can't believe I've actually got a fet working..
[18:19] <mattbrejza> the hard part is getting the right one rather than acutally getting it to work
[18:20] <cuddykid> opted for the IRL520N in the end
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[18:36] <Uggy> Upu: Thx ;)
[18:36] <chrisstubbs> daveake, http://chris-stubbs.co.uk/wp/?p=258
[18:36] <daveake> cool
[18:37] <chrisstubbs> Come to think of it, do you even use python?
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[18:44] <daveake> Not for the tracker, no
[18:44] <daveake> Just for poking data into habitat via 3G
[18:48] <chrisstubbs> That wont be of much use to you then :P
[18:48] <daveake> not much :)
[18:49] <chrisstubbs> oh well
[18:49] <chrisstubbs> at least the next person that comes asking "how do i put the ublox into flightmode in python" will have an answer
[18:49] <daveake> true :)
[18:56] <Uggy> Randomskk: mattbrejza: Upu: Thx to have checked resistance values and maths and fixed the wiki so fast ! :)
[18:56] <mattbrejza> np :)
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[19:15] <Upu> hey Uggy
[19:15] <Upu> you were just working through trying to understand it ?
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[19:29] <jcoxon> yay for european pico flights
[19:30] <Uggy> Upu: exactly... I'm new.. so I start from zero :)
[19:30] <Upu> I know
[19:30] <Upu> well Uggy thanks for restoring my faith
[19:30] <Uggy> so I tried to understand by myself..
[19:30] <Upu> I was beginning to think people never read them
[19:30] <Uggy> ahah :)
[19:30] <Upu> makes it all worth while
[19:31] <Upu> only taken people 2 years to notice that
[19:31] <Uggy> well.. most of you already have something working I guess
[19:31] <Upu> the resistor in the pictures was correct value by the way
[19:31] <Uggy> so no reason to read beginner stuff :)
[19:31] <Upu> got an NTX2 already ?
[19:31] <Uggy> yes.. received it 2 weeks ago or so.. but did get time to test much...
[19:32] <Upu> ok no probs
[19:32] <Uggy> did not
[19:32] <Uggy> just see it worked..
[19:32] <Upu> well seriously thanks for taking the time to understand what you're doing its appreciated
[19:32] <Uggy> I'm using sdr usb key
[19:32] <Upu> yup should work
[19:32] <Uggy> Upu: you're welcome..
[19:33] <Uggy> Thank you for putting all this valuable informations and share with everybody
[19:33] <Uggy> why resistors were ok ? as you replace 20K by 47K ?
[19:33] <Uggy> did I missed something ?
[19:33] <Upu> 20k didn't give the correct shift in voltage
[19:34] <Uggy> yes agree..
[19:34] <Upu> needs to be around 45k ish to get the right shift in voltage to give about 400hz between the tones
[19:34] <Upu> its not an exact science and it makes no difference if you don't get the shift spot on
[19:34] <Uggy> agree.. so why do you say the values were correct ?
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[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:34] <Upu> they are correct now
[19:35] <Upu> they were correct in the pictures
[19:35] <Uggy> ahh ok... :)
[19:35] <Upu> just not in the text
[19:35] <Upu> hi lunar
[19:35] <Uggy> which picture ?
[19:35] <Uggy> 20K was in the picture
[19:35] <Upu> the photographs
[19:35] <Upu> if you read the bands on the resistors in the photographs its a 47k one
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[19:36] <Uggy> ahh ok !
[19:36] <Uggy> well you have good eyes ! as this is small ! :)
[19:36] <Upu> I was toying with launching a pico too jcoxon but prediction isn't great
[19:37] <Uggy> ok..in fact we can zoom in
[19:38] <Uggy> I admit I did not though about looking on the photograph to check colors ;)
[19:38] <Upu> jcoxon http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/13783_trj001.gif
[19:39] <eroomde> does that count as crossing the atlantic?
[19:39] <Upu> kinda :)
[19:39] <Upu> not exactly a good coverage area
[19:39] <jcoxon> eroomde, ummm closest we've got to it
[19:40] <jcoxon> :-p
[19:41] <jcoxon> Upu, i'm always interested in other picos though
[19:41] Action: jcoxon likes a good float
[19:41] <Upu> yup should be interesting
[19:41] <Upu> both are single cell 1.8v new designs
[19:42] <jcoxon> oh nice
[19:42] <jcoxon> once i get back from holiday i'll crack on and launch a pico
[19:42] <Uggy> I'm french (sorry ;) ) Do you know if some french people are lauching ?
[19:43] <Upu> very few Uggy but you have some amazing receivers
[19:43] <jcoxon> yeah some really good trackers in france
[19:43] <Uggy> ok.. why "amazing" ? powerful devices ?
[19:43] <eroomde> they will fly into africa to recover
[19:44] <Upu> always receiving when there is a launch
[19:44] <eroomde> and then rent a 4x4 and head into the morocan mountains
[19:44] <Upu> happy to collect when some stupid englishman sends a balloon over France
[19:44] <jcoxon> always help us out
[19:44] <Uggy> ok :)
[19:44] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=509
[19:45] <Uggy> may be they want free british NTX2 ! :)
[19:45] <Uggy> thx for the ava link.. will read it..
[19:45] <Upu> that one didn't have an NTX2 :) No he sent it straight back
[19:47] <Uggy> any particular reason to track and not launch ?
[19:47] <Uggy> is it another hobby ?
[19:48] <eroomde> yeah i guess so
[19:48] <eroomde> lots of ham radio enthusiasts like listening to new things
[19:48] <Uggy> ok ..I see... How they tracked wihtout ntx2 ?
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[19:49] <Upu> they use SDR's like you have or usually amateur radio equipment
[19:49] <Uggy> yes... but is there an ntx2 into the payload ?
[19:49] <eroomde> i think Uggy meant how was the payload communicating
[19:49] <Upu> ah sorry
[19:49] <Uggy> yes ;)
[19:50] <Upu> no in that one there was a smaller alternative called the RFM22B
[19:50] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/pAVA/img014.jpg
[19:50] <Upu> that at the bottom
[19:51] <Uggy> ohh ok..thx
[19:52] <Uggy> what is the main difference beetween ntx2 and RFM22B (I will read more on this ..googling by myself later)
[19:52] <Upu> the RFM22B communicates in a different manner
[19:52] <Upu> digitally
[19:53] <Upu> whereas the NTX2 is analogue
[19:53] <Upu> the RFM can run at lower voltages too
[19:53] <Uggy> Mmmm.. ok..
[19:53] <Uggy> Will check this..
[19:53] <Upu> its also frequency agile meaning you can tell it what frequency to use
[19:54] <Upu> however it is more complex and not quite as robust as the NTX2
[19:54] <eroomde> but it;s drifty and the freq agility is coarse
[19:54] <Uggy> ok.. thx
[19:54] <Uggy> I must leave now.. (my wife ;) )
[19:55] <Uggy> thank you all for your support ! :)
[19:55] <Upu> welcome see you soon
[19:55] <eroomde> bon soir
[19:55] <Uggy> sure.. will keep an eye on chan more often now ! :)
[19:56] <Uggy> eroomde: Bonsoir too !
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[20:02] <mattbrejza> the rfm keeps breaking too...
[20:03] <jcoxon> cant fault an ntx2
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[20:05] <S_Mark> Hi all - any launches this Saturday? We are thinking of un-scrubbing and launching STRATODEAN Two in the afternoon.
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[20:09] <chrisstubbs> There is one on the Calendar in Poland but that looks like it!
[20:10] <S_Mark> ok great!
[20:11] <griffonbot> @stratodean: This weekend's STRATODEAN Two launch is tentatively back ON for Saturday pm #keepingyouonyourtoes #ukhas. Trackers much appreciated! [http://twitter.com/stratodean/status/335125271265030144]
[20:11] <Upu> think you should be ok S_Mark
[20:11] <Upu> whats the prediction ?
[20:12] <S_Mark> Hey Upu, ok great, usually enough trackers on a Saturday afternoon? Wales
[20:12] <S_Mark> .
[20:12] <Upu> I think you'll be well covered
[20:12] <Upu> try avoid the M1 this time huh ? :)
[20:12] <S_Mark> Haha yes for sure!
[20:12] <arko> Aloha
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> hey S_Mark
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[20:14] <S_Mark> Hey Lunar
[20:14] <S_Mark> Good thank you, winds and weather have changed
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> we got like a thunderstorm in the afternoon today!
[20:16] <S_Mark> Still gunna be cloudy though but we'll take it for now
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[20:20] <WILLdude> Hello
[20:20] <Upu> evening Will
[20:20] <arko> Yo yo
[20:21] <eroomde> yo singleton
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> hi arko
[20:23] <arko> Suuup
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> :) how is Pasadena?
[20:23] <S_Mark> We are thinking of moving the camera to the side rather than faced down this time. While the shots were good at launch and landing, they were mostly boring during the majority of the rest of the flight
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> just be careful to keep antenna parts out of the FOV
[20:23] <arko> Its cooler now, was 33C ish the other dday
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> (source: own experience)
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> arko, ohhhh
[20:23] <arko> eroomde: how was the visit?
[20:24] <S_Mark> No lens covering on the GoPro this time either
[20:24] <S_Mark> !
[20:24] Action: chrisstubbs seconds lunars experince
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> arko, got a thunderstorm
[20:24] <arko> Fun
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> this afternoon
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> saw some cloud-cloud lightning bolts
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[20:31] <WILLdude> I think I'm becoming addicted to Les Miserables music.
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[20:33] <S_Mark> Guys, on our first launch some of you mentioned about removing the gaps between transmissions - are we talking no gap at all, just continual transmissions with no delay?
[20:33] <chrisstubbs> Thats the theory mark
[20:34] <S_Mark> OK cool, just checking :)
[20:34] <chrisstubbs> Using SS and delays I'm not sure if its possible to get it down to absolutley no gap
[20:34] <LazyLeopard> ...depends what you mean by gaps, I guess?
[20:35] <Upu> where just carrier is transmitting
[20:35] <Upu> easier with none
[20:35] <LazyLeopard> You want a bit of space between one line and the next
[20:35] <Upu> not really
[20:35] <S_Mark> yeah I thought there was differing opinions, thats why I asked
[20:35] <LazyLeopard> Sometimes that's the bit that gives the clearest indication of the current frequency.
[20:36] <Upu> well personal preference I guess
[20:36] <Upu> I prefer no gaps
[20:36] <LazyLeopard> especially at 300
[20:36] <Upu> from a receiving point of view
[20:36] <LazyLeopard> Again, define "no" ;)
[20:36] <S_Mark> ok, yeah I defo want the easiest signal to receive
[20:36] <Upu> no delay in code
[20:36] <WILLdude> Evening Upu.
[20:37] <Upu> Evening Mr Dude
[20:37] <SP9UOB> S_Mark: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pico/sp9uob.wav
[20:37] <WILLdude> Evening Iron Man
[20:37] <Laurenceb__> willdude@wikipedia?
[20:37] <Laurenceb__> wikipedophile eh?
[20:37] <WILLdude> Seriously.
[20:37] <WILLdude> Laurence, people my age make that joke.
[20:38] <LazyLeopard> Presumably there's a gap of sorts while the position's read from the GPS?
[20:38] <S_Mark> Thanks SP9UOB, that makes it very clear
[20:38] <Upu> not if you're using interupts
[20:38] <WILLdude> Laurenceb_: Used to do Wikipedia.
[20:38] <S_Mark> Ok, I am not using interupts but I will try to minimise the gaps as much as possible
[20:38] <S_Mark> Will test later
[20:39] <chrisstubbs> S_Mark, is your current code on github?
[20:39] <S_Mark> Yes
[20:39] <LazyLeopard> Just don't turn the transmitter off when you're not sending data. ;)
[20:39] <S_Mark> with the gap removed
[20:39] <chrisstubbs> Whats your username?
[20:39] <S_Mark> guess lol
[20:39] <S_Mark> stratodean
[20:40] <chrisstubbs> oh :P
[20:40] <WILLdude> I used to edit a lot.
[20:40] <WILLdude> I don't much any more.
[20:40] <WILLdude> I probably could become an admin in 6 months or so.
[20:40] lz1dev_ (~rgp@46.47.80.192) joined #highaltitude.
[20:40] <WILLdude> But I cba to write a gazillion caffeine fuelled pages a day.
[20:42] <griffonbot> Received email: STRATODEAN "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - STRATODEAN Two - 18/05/13 Afternoon,
[20:42] lz1dev (~rgp@46.47.80.192) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[20:42] <griffonbot> Received email: chris hillcox "[UKHAS] Re: BABSHAB launch - Great Tew, Saturday 25th May-Monday 27th
[20:42] <Darkside> maybe a short delay (1-2 seconds) to collect data
[20:42] <Upu> interupts
[20:43] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[20:43] <SP9UOB> Lunar_Lander: my Pico will be tommorow over Germany (possibly...) http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=f13ae904197c4fb8928b29f2eb5527c432a3b0a1
[20:43] <Upu> and third time spelt correctly
[20:43] <Upu> interrupts!
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[20:44] <S_Mark> I will test it later and see what happens
[20:44] <chrisstubbs> S_Mark your timing is theoretically 150µs out ;)
[20:44] <S_Mark> is it?
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[20:45] <chrisstubbs> probably not, it varies from arduino to arduino anyway
[20:45] <S_Mark> the 50baud transmission delay?
[20:46] <SP9UOB> anyway, is someine is interrested: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pico/pico_pic18f26k22.pdf
[20:46] <chrisstubbs> no sorry that is right, 1/50 seconds = 20000µs
[20:46] <chrisstubbs> why is my code 20150
[20:46] <S_Mark> Yes the examples do show 20150
[20:47] <S_Mark> I think it is to do with the software serial
[20:47] Action: chrisstubbs points to Upu
[20:48] <chrisstubbs> oh really?
[20:48] <S_Mark> Yeah, about the timings on the Arduino not being that accurate
[20:48] <Upu> Interrupts
[20:49] <Upu> its a bit like nuking from orbit
[20:49] <Upu> only way to be sure
[20:49] <chrisstubbs> Upu CHEAPO used interrupts, and look at hoe good that was!
[20:49] <chrisstubbs> *how
[20:49] <Upu> interrupts don't help with crap antennas :)
[20:50] <Upu> timing was spot on chrisstubbs
[20:50] <WILLdude> Has anyone seen this?
[20:50] <WILLdude> http://ninjablocks.com
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[20:50] <chrisstubbs> Yeah and the serial was flawless
[20:50] <S_Mark> The code on gitgub, minus the temp stuff was what ran last time
[20:50] <WILLdude> It's basically an consumer-ified arduino
[20:50] <S_Mark> I'm gunna run with that for now
[20:50] simrun (~simrun@gateway/shell/freebnc/x-qlhbygjwonffoksb) got netsplit.
[20:50] uwe_ (~uwe_@dslb-088-064-210-138.pools.arcor-ip.net) got netsplit.
[20:50] Darkside (~Darkside@compsci.adl/officialscapegoat/Darkside) got netsplit.
[20:50] LWK (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) got netsplit.
[20:50] <chrisstubbs> S_Mark all looked in order to me
[20:51] <chrisstubbs> you did say you took the delay out of that github code right?
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[20:51] <S_Mark> Yes - but not tested yet. That's great thanks, should have got someone to look at it first time round lol
[20:52] <chrisstubbs> Should be good!
[20:52] <chrisstubbs> Interrupts would be better, but it seemed to work pretty well last time
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[20:53] <S_Mark> did you run interrupts on your last launch?
[20:53] <chrisstubbs> Yeah on CHEAPO
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[20:54] <chrisstubbs> so technically both launches
[20:54] <chrisstubbs> first launch had two trackers
[20:54] <S_Mark> the one that worked on the first launch was no interrupts?
[20:54] <mfa298> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/13783_trj001.gif
[20:55] <chrisstubbs> Yeah NSE was just delay code and SS
[20:55] <S_Mark> ok
[20:55] <S_Mark> I have to go for a sec, brb in 10/15
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[20:58] Nick change: chaoshax -> anti-hatter
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[21:12] <chrisstubbs> Ping cuddykid
[21:12] <cuddykid> evening chrisstubbs
[21:13] <chrisstubbs> My PiPythonSSDVGPSNTX2 whateverelseitdoes code is pretty much done :D
[21:13] <SP9UOB> time to sleep, night all
[21:13] <chrisstubbs> Just need to figure out how to 1) disable the serial console thing and 2) get the script to run on boot
[21:13] <chrisstubbs> night SP9UOB
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[21:14] <chrisstubbs> Did you have any luck with the delay on yours cuddykid?
[21:14] <cuddykid> haven't tried it yet - sorry
[21:14] <cuddykid> been working on cutdown stuff today
[21:15] <chrisstubbs> Ah cool :)
[21:15] <cuddykid> I don't think it's going to help though
[21:15] <cuddykid> I might give it a try later this evening if I get time else I'll try tomorrow
[21:15] <cuddykid> let me know if you have any problems running it on boot
[21:15] <chrisstubbs> Hmm i was thinking about having another script with a delay that then starts the python script when its all logged in and ready
[21:15] <cuddykid> I tried both putting command in rc.local and crontab but neither worked properly
[21:16] <chrisstubbs> I tried to disable the serial console thing and kernel panic happened
[21:16] <cuddykid> rc.local should be called only after all the other stuff is running iirc
[21:16] <chrisstubbs> had to reinstall raspbain :P
[21:16] <cuddykid> I've reinstalled it so many times lol
[21:16] <cuddykid> had so many SD corruptions
[21:17] <chrisstubbs> yup had a fresh one in the post today
[21:17] <chrisstubbs> thought i destroyed it straight away becuase one PC just didnt want to write to it
[21:17] <Brace> cuddykid: yeah, that's how rc.local works
[21:17] <cuddykid> cheers Brace
[21:18] <cuddykid> chrisstubbs: it's so frustrating
[21:18] <Brace> putting the script in /etc/init.d/ should get it running at boot
[21:19] <Brace> there's also an option in cron called iirc @boot which runs the cronjob at boot
[21:19] <Brace> both work fine normally, but I know that my pi can be a little quirky at times, so not 100% surprised you're having issues
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[21:27] <mfa298> for the init.d method you probably need to add links into /etc/rc3.d as well.
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[21:28] <mfa298> rc.local is likely to be the easiest. although it's worth adding nohup and send it to the background (unless you've daemonised your code)
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[21:30] Action: mfa298 is wondering what you do to your pis. I've only had SD card issues once and that was when I tried serious overclocking.
[21:31] <chrisstubbs> I like having disagreements with Linux
[21:32] <mfa298> linux isn't too bad like that, you can usually fix it (apart from ubuntu)
[21:33] <Randomskk> yea, ubuntu generally doesn't need fixing
[21:33] <chrisstubbs> I spent a good hour trying to fix it when the kernel panic kept happeneing but it seemed easier to reinstall
[21:33] <Randomskk> :P
[21:33] <chrisstubbs> i only had 2 python modules and fswebcam installed anyway
[21:34] <mfa298> apart from the assumption it (at least used to have) that ipv6 would be a kernel module. So failed to do IPv6 if it was compiled into the kernel (xen vps)
[21:34] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, got it running on boot
[21:34] <chrisstubbs> :)
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[21:35] <cuddykid> chrisstubbs: excellent! where did you stick it?
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> on another topic.
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Skywhale
[21:35] <chrisstubbs> PM
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[21:36] <mfa298> Randomskk: unfortunately every time I try ubuntu it just upsets me more with weird design descisions and weird bugs - Downloaded the latest the other day to see if it's any better.
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[21:45] <Laurenceb__> lol SpeedEvil
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[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> wb S_Mark_
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> so you got your second payload almost done?
[21:58] <S_Mark_> Yes almost
[21:59] <S_Mark_> Only a few tweaks from the first one. We are hoping for better photos and videos this time - thats our main aim for this launch. Once we have these then we might move on to do other fun stuff.
[21:59] <S_Mark_> Still HAB related
[22:00] <Laurenceb__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2wYvr20nAg&feature=player_detailpage#t=69s
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:00] <Laurenceb__> rofl @ the announcher
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> so you removed the temperature sensors?
[22:01] <S_Mark_> cuddykid you recreating Felix's jump?
[22:01] <cuddykid> S_Mark_: sort of similar
[22:01] <cuddykid> going to be a 3D printed mascot/man hanging below main rig with his own chute
[22:02] <cuddykid> hopefully cutaway and parachute back whilst being filmed
[22:02] <S_Mark_> sounds interesting
[22:02] <cuddykid> all very ambitious.. hah
[22:02] <S_Mark_> lol
[22:03] <S_Mark_> so you will have to recover two payloads
[22:04] Nick change: S_Mark_ -> S_Mark
[22:04] <cuddykid> yep
[22:04] <cuddykid> should be 3 radios on board too - 1 for mascot, 1 for main rig, 1 for ssdv
[22:06] <S_Mark> Sounds good. Would we know this mascot from any popular culture!?
[22:06] <cuddykid> no, unfortunately not - it's a company's mascot
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[22:07] <S_Mark> Ah yeah
[22:09] <chrisstubbs> Linux question: Is they a key combo i can use to exit a python script thats running before the login prompt is displayed
[22:09] <chrisstubbs> ctrl-c and ctrl-z dont work
[22:14] <lz1dev> which login prompt?
[22:15] <chrisstubbs> http://bit.ly/11InIoJ
[22:16] <chrisstubbs> thats the script running
[22:16] <chrisstubbs> Not up to speed with my linux terminology, the bash login?
[22:16] <chrisstubbs> the one before you can run startx
[22:19] <lz1dev> if ^C doesnt work
[22:19] <lz1dev> you are probably out of options
[22:20] <chrisstubbs> ah darn :P
[22:20] <chrisstubbs> not a massive problem. i can still kill it over SSH
[22:20] <lz1dev> you can probably remove the script from running
[22:21] <chrisstubbs> I need it to run on boot, would just be nice to have an easy way of stopping it
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[22:21] <lz1dev> erm
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[22:22] <lz1dev> either you cant send interrupts, like ^C
[22:22] <lz1dev> or the script might be ignoring them
[22:22] <lz1dev> if you run it after login, can you ^C it ?
[22:24] <chrisstubbs> yeah that works
[22:28] <arko> just found this next to our hackerspace http://i.imgur.com/Jlo87UN.jpeg
[22:28] <chrisstubbs> aha
[22:28] <chrisstubbs> Have you opened an accout yet?
[22:28] <arko> ha! i just spotted myself in the window reflect
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[22:29] <arko> not yet
[22:29] <arko> :P
[22:29] <arko> gonna bring my hab and see if i can open an account
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[22:38] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, failed at the first hurdle of the overnight test
[22:38] <chrisstubbs> crashes if it dosent get a GPS fix :P
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[22:39] <cuddykid> haha
[22:39] <cuddykid> at least you found that out now!
[22:39] <cuddykid> i'm off - hopefully the over night test here will succeed
[22:39] <chrisstubbs> true, but i did put code in place to check if it has a fix...
[22:39] <chrisstubbs> clearly dosent work :P
[22:41] <arko> http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA16934.jpg
[22:42] <arko> wow i had no idea how far the ussr bot had driven
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[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> arko, let's convince JPL administration to get the world record to the US with Opportunity
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[22:45] <arko> trust me, they are going for it
[22:45] <arko> opportunity will likely make it
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> just 1.24 km
[22:45] <chrisstubbs> whoop code fixed
[22:46] <arko> it has the most operating time by many years
[22:46] <chrisstubbs> need to learn the difference between strings and integers still
[22:46] <arko> the real difference was that we stopped and did science
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:46] <arko> chrisstubbs nice playstation eye
[22:46] <chrisstubbs> cheers, its my only webcam that works with the pi apparently
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> curiosity drove 700 m in 9 months
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> I think that is much faster than MER
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[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> one tenth of what Spirit made in six years
[22:47] <gonzo__> my gran used to do about the same speed
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> but I think Curiosity has had several stops so far
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> and the Computer A failure
[22:48] <arko> well yeah, it moves faster and is gunning it for mount sharp
[22:48] <arko> it's busy doing science
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> I think it may have the world record in the end
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> if it really runs till 2020 or later
[22:50] <arko> it doesnt really mean anything though
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> what is v_max on it?
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[22:51] <arko> 0.08mph
[22:51] <arko> ish
[22:51] <arko> 1.5inch/sec
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> 2.7 cm/s
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> no
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> silly me
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> 3.7 cm/s
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> but it is what is technically possible
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> I suppose you can't deploy something like the Apollo rover and remote control it
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> it will crash badly without a human at the wheel
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[23:05] <chrisstubbs> Night all
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[00:00] --- Fri May 17 2013