highaltitude.log.20130514

[00:04] <Willdude123> Hi arko
[00:04] <Willdude123> I was wondering, what do you do at the JPL?
[00:04] <arko> sup Will
[00:05] <arko> I'm a software engineer for the reliability testing lab
[00:05] <Willdude123> I see.
[00:05] <arko> My main job is to write software that takes test results
[00:05] <arko> tracks and notifys if there are problems and tracks it overall
[00:06] <arko> notifies*
[00:06] <Willdude123> Ooh
[00:06] <arko> hehe have tracking in there tqice
[00:06] <arko> twice*
[00:07] <arko> i should also mention that it's only electronic parts
[00:07] <arko> so non-mechanical
[00:07] <Willdude123> Does the JPL do much more than just the curiousity rover?
[00:07] <Willdude123> I si
[00:07] <arko> yes
[00:08] <arko> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/
[00:08] <arko> I'm currently working on SMAP which will measure soil moisture
[00:08] <arko> should really help agriculture
[00:09] <arko> jpl has lots of missions, some more popular/famous than others
[00:09] <arko> we also have a small R&D section
[00:09] <arko> pretty much cover all the bases, earth land and ocean to other planets
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[00:54] <heathkid> does anyone have a Radiometrix WFX2? I can't find how much it weighs...
[00:55] <heathkid> it's not in the datasheet
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[03:10] <nigelvh> Evening KT5TK_QRL
[03:10] <heathkid> did everyone fall asleep?
[03:10] <heathkid> ah
[03:10] <heathkid> hello nigelvh
[03:10] <nigelvh> Evening
[03:10] <arko> just watched the successful landing of the soyuz
[03:10] <arko> crew is home safe :)
[03:10] <heathkid> pm
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[03:36] <Arithmetic> it's kind of economically revealing that various places on earth are more dangerous
[03:36] <KT5TK> I've put some info about PecanPico3 on my new blog: http://kt5tk.wordpress.com
[03:36] <nigelvh> Evening KT5TK
[03:36] <KT5TK> Hi nigelvh
[03:37] <nigelvh> Nice looking blog there.
[03:38] <KT5TK> I try to get familiar with all that new web stuff...
[03:38] <nigelvh> Half suprised you're not hosting it yourself.
[03:39] <nigelvh> Have you done a cold test with the 4464 and the 22pF?
[03:40] <KT5TK> Yea, I got a new computer at home in my office. Trying to explore new options, but I'm already frustrated that I can't upload zip files to the wordpress server
[03:40] <nigelvh> I found a nice cheap VPS service.
[03:40] <KT5TK> Not yet
[03:40] <nigelvh> vpscheap.net
[03:40] <nigelvh> Just a couple bucks for a smaller VPS
[03:41] <KT5TK> looks nice. I hope they'll survive for a couple of years
[03:41] <KT5TK> Unlike many other providers
[03:42] <KT5TK> Astrid wants me to come to dinner. bbl
[03:42] <nigelvh> Tell her hi for me.
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[04:15] <heathkid> KT5TK: when you get back... how much does the PecanPico2 weigh and how are you powering it?
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[04:57] <nigelvh> Also KT5TK, is that populated all the way? I see lots of empty pads.
[05:06] <KT5TK> heathkid: I didn't weight it yet. Will do that tomorrow in the lab. This is what PecanPico1 was: http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/750/20121220184123.jpg
[05:06] <KT5TK> There is a boost/buck converter on board. So it can take anything from 1 .. 5 V
[05:07] <KT5TK> I didn't populate the RTC and the receiver passive components this time.
[05:08] <nigelvh> Is the RTC on the opposite side?
[05:08] <KT5TK> Because I'll fly it next weekend and I won't have time to take care of those.
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[05:09] <KT5TK> No, the RTC is a tiny component with 8 pads between the GPS and the VCXO
[05:09] <nigelvh> I see
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[05:10] <nigelvh> Looks like you're using a chip inductor on the TXout pin on the 4464.
[05:10] <nigelvh> Couldn't find any coils?
[05:11] <KT5TK> That's the 470nH choke for the Vcc supply
[05:11] <nigelvh> Yeah.
[05:11] <nigelvh> Figured didn't need the performance of the coil?
[05:12] <KT5TK> It's supposed to block RF and it has a lower DC resistance
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[05:13] <nigelvh> Hmm
[05:13] <KT5TK> Here is my parts list: http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=33053ee4fd
[05:13] <KT5TK> That's all except the GPS
[05:14] <nigelvh> You get your GPSs from Upu?
[05:14] <KT5TK> Yes
[05:14] <nigelvh> Also, that's a spendy GPS antenna.
[05:14] <KT5TK> Do you know a cheap and light one with a LNA?
[05:15] <nigelvh> True enough. I just figured a chip antenna would be good enough
[05:15] <KT5TK> It may be. I can use a chip antenna on that PCB
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[05:16] <nigelvh> Yeah, I saw the pads.
[05:17] <KT5TK> I had best experience with the GPS antenna in the list
[05:17] <nigelvh> I'm sure. A real antenna like that will certainly give better performance.
[05:22] <nigelvh> I have to say I like the wire holes you've got in the board.
[05:24] <KT5TK> I use them to strain-relief the antenna wires
[05:25] <nigelvh> Yeah, I like the idea
[05:25] <nigelvh> Is that still your dual band filter?
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[05:25] <KT5TK> No that one is for 2m only
[05:26] <nigelvh> That would be a cool setup, having it switch bands for different transmissions during the flight.
[05:26] <nigelvh> Do a higher power APRS transmission then a lower power 434 rtty perhaps.
[05:27] <KT5TK> It may be possible to implement that on this PCB
[05:27] <KT5TK> It's just some work to simulate something usable with LTspice
[05:28] <KT5TK> If you don't care so much about the 2nd harmonic it may be quite easy
[05:29] <nigelvh> Yeah
[05:29] <KT5TK> simply design the LPF for 70cm only...
[05:30] <nigelvh> Yeah
[05:30] <nigelvh> So have there been any other tricks to the 4464 software, or is it pretty much where we were? Get it to transmit, and modulate the VCXO?
[05:31] <KT5TK> That's essentially it
[05:32] <KT5TK> I have only written a function that sets the PLL according to a desired frequency so that you don't need to hardcode that
[05:32] <nigelvh> Yeah
[05:32] <nigelvh> Once I get a board made I really want to see what I can get the recieve to do.
[05:34] <KT5TK> The basics are solved. It should be easy to expand the code in any direction
[05:34] <nigelvh> Yeah, the key will be does my "brute force" method actually work reliably.
[05:35] <KT5TK> It wood be fun. Good luck with that
[05:36] <nigelvh> Yeah. Being able to send an APRS command packet would be pretty awesome.
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[05:37] <KT5TK> I'd be happy if it could decode simple DTMF tones
[05:38] <nigelvh> That's also an interesting prospect considering DTMF is two tones at the same time.
[05:39] <KT5TK> MFSK :)
[05:39] <nigelvh> True
[05:40] <KT5TK> not really technically speaking...
[05:41] <KT5TK> With your brute force method RTTY might be the easiest way to start
[05:41] <nigelvh> Yeah
[05:42] <nigelvh> That would be pretty straightforward I think.
[05:42] <KT5TK> That's certainly enough to upload simple commands
[05:43] <nigelvh> Definitely
[05:49] <KT5TK> I noticed today that Mouser is out of Si4464s
[05:50] <KT5TK> A Si4463 should work as well for the frequencies we use
[05:51] <nigelvh> Should. Not as centered, but good enough
[05:52] <KT5TK> They used to have 10 in stock. I've bought them all a few months back.
[05:52] <nigelvh> Have you tried tuning one outside one of the bands?
[05:52] <KT5TK> I wonder what I could do to get them back in stock
[05:53] <KT5TK> No, I didn't try.
[05:53] <nigelvh> Just looking at the 4464, 225 isn't in the band, but it's close.
[05:56] <KT5TK> Fres-239 can do 177...239 MHz on the Si4464
[05:56] <KT5TK> So it should work for sure
[05:57] <nigelvh> Fres-239?
[05:57] <KT5TK> Datasheet page 5
[05:57] <nigelvh> Oh, yes. It does look good for that.
[05:58] <nigelvh> Well, nice job KT5TK. Looking forward to your flight.
[05:58] <nigelvh> But It's bed time for me.
[06:01] <KT5TK> http://www.mouser.com/search/include/aoo_popup.aspx?mouserpartnumber=634-SI4464-B1X-FM
[06:01] <KT5TK> On order til 5/31/2013
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[07:42] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve "[UKHAS] Re: Decoding RTTY tips"
[07:42] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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[07:46] <eroomde> a happy customer
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[09:32] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve "[UKHAS] Re: Decoding RTTY tips"
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[10:51] <Laurenceb> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/thermal-imaging-cameras/0563144/
[10:52] <lz1dev> suprisingly cheap
[10:54] <gonzo__> wonder if RS will do samples?
[10:55] <SpeedEvil> I know of some unused ones if you want them.
[10:55] <SpeedEvil> just need the coolant replaced.
[10:56] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Space_Observatory
[10:56] <Laurenceb> lol
[10:57] <gonzo__> buyer collects?
[10:57] <HixWork> we've got a flir i5 at work, great fun, pretty useful too
[10:59] <gonzo__> we had a prototype of a scanning mirror one once, used a sensor similar to a PIR type
[10:59] <gonzo__> and a pinhole lens
[10:59] <Laurenceb> very slow
[10:59] <gonzo__> never saw it running so not sure of the effectivness
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[11:00] <gonzo__> think it was for some mil application, so poss was just following a target rather than scanning a scene
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[11:00] <Laurenceb> ah
[11:01] <gonzo__> but most people don't need fast moving pics, just a simple one time raster. So that technique may still be useable
[11:01] <Laurenceb> http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/bespoke/bespoke2.jsp?bespokepage=cpc/en_CC/special_offers/bargains/part_detail/picamera.jsp
[11:01] <Laurenceb> hmm
[11:02] <SpeedEvil> deeply annoying
[11:02] <SpeedEvil> I would love just a generic CSI driver
[11:02] <Laurenceb> yeah
[11:04] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/raspberrypi/userland/tree/master/host_applications/linux/apps/raspicam
[11:06] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/raspberrypi/userland/blob/master/host_applications/linux/apps/raspicam/RaspiCamControl.h
[11:07] <Laurenceb> looks like all the camera functionality is hidden in there
[11:07] <Laurenceb> but it goes via gpu
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[11:11] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW1VeV66ugk
[11:23] <costyn> why is it so hard to make an infrared camera? ie why are they so expensive?
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[11:30] <Laurenceb> custom silicon
[11:30] <Laurenceb> or rather silicon nitride
[11:30] <Laurenceb> so custom "silicon" and custom fab process
[11:31] <Laurenceb> double the expense
[11:31] <Laurenceb> it'd be interesting to try an all silicon design
[11:32] <Laurenceb> i can get ~1micron wafers done for <£10K
[11:33] <mattbrejza> na, make a SoC GPS, micro and ISM radio instead :P
[11:33] <costyn> mattbrejza: that'd be pretty cool :)
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[11:33] <mattbrejza> although id guess the ublox is somewhat smaller than 1 micron
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[11:34] <mattbrejza> a 4 layer board and putting a cc430 fully under the ublox would be a decent improvement
[11:43] <chris_99> costyn, what range IR do you mean, you mean thermal?
[11:44] <costyn> chris_99: err yes :)
[11:44] <costyn> chris_99: FLIR / thermal imaging cameras
[11:44] <chris_99> ah, yeah they use exotic stuff like galium arsenide
[11:44] <chris_99> i looked into obtaining a 'cheap' sensor and it it cost around £1K
[11:44] <chris_99> just for the sensor
[11:44] <costyn> which is expensive or difficult to use I guess?
[11:44] <chris_99> yeah
[11:46] <chris_99> actually it's InGaAs even
[11:49] <Laurenceb> theres the "thermopile" type sensors
[11:49] <Laurenceb> that use heated cavities
[11:49] <chris_99> i imagine they're not very precise?
[11:51] <chris_99> oh actually i stand corrected they look pretty nifty, i didn't think you could use them like a camera, but http://www.heimannsensor.com/products_imaging.php
[11:53] <Laurenceb> thats how much of the non really high end military stuff works
[11:56] <chris_99> intriguing, i'm gonna investigate the prices of those, as i was looking into IR spectroscopy, not sure if they cover the range i want yet though
[11:57] <costyn> chris_99: ok, thaqnks for the info
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[12:14] <chrisstubbswork> daveake: how did you go about getting the ublox chip into flight mode using the pi?
[12:15] <daveake> Just write the bytes to it, via the serial port or i2c depending on which tracker
[12:15] <chrisstubbswork> is the code very different to the ublox example by upu on ukhas?
[12:15] <daveake> Well the bytes are the same :)
[12:15] <daveake> Just write the buffer
[12:16] <chrisstubbswork> do you reak back the response to check it? or just hope it worked
[12:16] <chrisstubbswork> *read
[12:16] <daveake> At the mo, the latter
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[12:16] <chrisstubbswork> thats all i was worried about as it seems quite complex
[12:16] <daveake> ok
[12:17] <daveake> Sending is easy
[12:18] <chrisstubbswork> Ok, I will give it a go tonight
[12:18] <chrisstubbswork> Will try reading the response too (in python), but I dont expect to get it working too easily :P
[12:20] <chrisstubbswork> im off for a bit, cheers!
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[13:02] <fsphil> http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/05/14/milky_way_over_la_a_little_math_makes_our_galaxy_appear_over_the_bright.html
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[13:09] <UpuWork> impressive
[13:10] <lz1dev> stars move pretty quick, any exposure more than 20s
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[13:10] <lz1dev> is blurry
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[13:13] <daveake> That's nice work
[13:21] <Darkside> welp
[13:21] <Darkside> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM8CQXFOqBw
[13:21] <Darkside> this film is disturbing
[13:21] <Darkside> australia at its finest
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[13:52] Action: Elwell reads wikipedia entry on it - yep think I'll have to sit and watch that
[13:53] <HixWork> fsphil, there's an apline photographer who does some awesome astro/mountaineering images http://goo.gl/AcW3L
[13:53] <HixWork> *Alpine
[13:54] <fsphil> that is nice
[13:57] <kokey> I want to build something to slowly move my camera for time lapse video
[13:57] <kokey> not just pan/rotate, but lift it etc.
[13:58] <kokey> Darkside: thought that would be the harden the F up video
[14:01] <Darkside> kokey: no
[14:02] <Darkside> its an extremely confronting movie
[14:02] <Darkside> anyway
[14:05] <Brace_> HixWork: have you seen the paragliding over the alps movies? they're ace
[14:05] Nick change: Brace_ -> Brace
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[14:31] <HixWork> this picture of Ueli Steck always makes me think - WOW - solo too http://goo.gl/md5hh
[14:31] <Brace> HixWork: drinking beer in the square in the middle of Cham after a climb is what it's all about...
[14:32] <HixWork> Brace, YUP
[14:33] <HixWork> that picture of Ueli is like an alpine where's wally
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[14:34] <Brace> yeah
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[14:36] <lz1dev> HixWork> that picture of Ueli is like an alpine where's wally
[14:36] <lz1dev> find him
[14:36] <lz1dev> had to open it a second time
[14:36] <HixWork> heh
[14:36] <HixWork> he's unreal
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[14:39] <HixWork> being fair Brace: the Hillaty step can get a wee bit lairy at times http://goo.gl/8lfUH so more than just a very high walk
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[14:45] <Laurenceb> nice
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[14:46] <Laurenceb> asbestos detection crew just turned up at my office
[14:46] <Laurenceb> this is encouraging
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[14:47] <mattbrejza> Laurenceb: http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss149/patbrandon1/YepItsWood.jpg ?
[14:47] <HixWork> has anyone done a google image search for Atari Breakout - You're welcome
[14:48] <Brace> HixWork: yeah, it's a pretty serious walk, but when there's a ladder up the only bit of climbing on the route, you know it's being dumbed down a bit...
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[14:49] <Laurenceb> they are installing kit in the air con ducts
[14:49] Nick change: nick_ -> Guest42816
[14:49] <mattbrejza> hmm nice to know
[14:49] <mattbrejza> good thing about a nice new building
[14:50] Nick change: griffonbot -> Guest89334
[14:50] <mattbrejza> although the windows did leak around the frames :/
[14:50] <Laurenceb> im slightly worried now
[14:51] <Laurenceb> ill keep away from any old dust
[14:51] <Laurenceb> well i was doing that already, as i had my suspicions
[14:51] <Brace> Laurenceb: as long as they haven't been drilling / doing major work while you're there, you're probably safe
[14:52] <mattbrejza> surely the department should know if there is any in the building, is it just a case of whether its been disturbed?
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[14:54] <Laurenceb> yeah it shouldnt be floating about
[14:54] <Laurenceb> but it might be accumulated in old dust
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[15:17] <mfa298> That sounds like a really good excuse for not cleaning: But there might be asbestos in it and I don't want to disturb it.
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[15:19] <W0OTM> WooHoo - iHAB-9 payload was found! After almost 3 months after the launch in Feb, the iHAB-9 balloon and payload was found today in a farm field south of Aledo, Ill. More details to come later today.
[15:20] <W0OTM> I keep my perfect recovery record :)
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[15:21] <Brace> W0OTM: nice :D
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[15:46] <eroomde> lots of confusation and hand waving about parachutes
[15:46] <eroomde> this makes a sad ed
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[15:55] <griffonbot> Received email: Alan Oakden "Re: [UKHAS] First Launch - Sci1"
[15:56] <UpuWork> please correct us :)
[15:57] <eroomde> drag coefficient of 1.5!!!
[15:57] Nick change: arko_- -> arko
[15:57] <eroomde> i think you were just doing it to upset me upu :)
[15:58] <UpuWork> just went off the chart
[15:58] <UpuWork> I know nothing
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[15:58] <UpuWork> back soon
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[16:04] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] First Launch - Sci1"
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[16:18] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] First Launch - Sci1"
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[16:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] First Launch - Sci1"
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[16:45] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] First Launch - Sci1"
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[17:21] <steve_____> I am so pleased with my RTTY hack I have had it running all day :)
[17:21] <steve_____> Why is there a recommended maximum carrier shift?
[17:22] <steve_____> I think I need to adjust my circuit to widen the gap to enable more than 600 baud
[17:22] <steve_____> I have a 450Hz split at the moment
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[17:28] <craag> steve_____: More than 600 baud? What do you need that for?
[17:28] <steve_____> Also is :)
[17:28] <steve_____> perhaps SSTV
[17:29] <steve_____> I dont
[17:29] <steve_____> I am looking at gross bit rate and thinking I don't want to go there either
[17:30] <craag> gross bit rate?
[17:31] <steve_____> where symbol rate < gross bit rate
[17:31] <steve_____> so you can transfer more data than the baud rate
[17:32] <steve_____> but thats a step too far for me atm
[17:33] <craag> Do you mean multiple bits/symbol?
[17:33] <steve_____> yes I think so
[17:33] <craag> So like 4-FSK, as opposed to 2-FSK that RTTY is.
[17:34] <craag> RTTY also has large overheads on every character
[17:34] <steve_____> I am not sure that its limited to that
[17:34] <craag> But it works :)
[17:34] <steve_____> it does
[17:34] <craag> oh no, you can you 256-FSK or more if you want :)
[17:34] <steve_____> and as I said I am so pleased I have been transmitting all day
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[17:35] <steve_____> I meant its not limited to FSK
[17:35] <steve_____> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbol_rate
[17:36] <craag> yep
[17:36] <steve_____> FSK would be easier to implement
[17:36] <steve_____> less brutal maths
[17:36] <craag> Very easy with an NTX2
[17:37] <steve_____> why doesn't everyone do it?
[17:37] <craag> Because the demodulator code already exists for RTTY, so it's easier to just use that.
[17:38] <craag> You only have one shift you need to get right, and you can key it with one digital output.
[17:38] <craag> More bit-rate is only really desirable with ssdv
[17:38] <craag> For position data, 4 updates a minute is perfectly enough.
[17:39] <steve_____> in fldigi?
[17:39] <steve_____> but you could transmit data many many times as fast
[17:39] <steve_____> yes
[17:40] <craag> faster ssdv would be great, and we are looking into other ways to do the transmission minus the rtty overhead
[17:41] <steve_____> gtg - drop the mrs off
[17:41] <craag> But most people just want position updates, along with a couple of temperature and battery readings.
[17:41] <steve_____> speak soon
[17:42] <craag> :)
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[18:09] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:13] <eroomde> no
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[18:15] <fsphil> it's 50/50 either way
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[18:17] <eroomde> too early to tell
[18:18] <daveake> I'm unsure
[18:18] <eroomde> let's call the whole thing off
[18:23] <fsphil> who's going to let the freenode admins know?
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[18:32] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] First Launch - Sci1"
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[18:53] <GadgetDroid> Upu how did the board testing go
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[18:57] <Upu> hey Gadget-Mac
[18:57] <Upu> should be with you tomorrow
[18:57] <Gadget-Mac> Cool.
[18:57] <Gadget-Mac> Positive toy fest then
[18:57] <Gadget-Mac> RPi and active GPS antenna arrived today
[18:57] <Gadget-Mac> RPi camera, beaglebone black shipped today, as did two more sdr dongles
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[18:59] <craag> wow quite a toy collection :)
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> hello Upu
[18:59] <Laurenceb_> im no toy
[18:59] <Upu> whatever you say ukladyboy
[19:00] <Gadget-Mac> Well with the rain, tinkering time is available
[19:00] <Laurenceb_> toyboy
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[19:03] <griffonbot> Received email: Alan Oakden "Re: [UKHAS] First Launch - Sci1"
[19:11] <zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/rxP4z.JPG <- does anybody happen to know what kind of connector this is?
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[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, received the GPS today :)
[19:16] <mfa298> zyp: is that a single connector or is there a connector on another connector there ?
[19:17] <zyp> a single connector
[19:17] <Upu> cool thanks for letting me know :)
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[19:18] <mfa298> I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like, it looks longer than most standard connectors
[19:19] <zyp> was looking through a box of old cables that were about to be thrown out, found a lot of nice coax cables with that kind of connectors
[19:19] <mfa298> the end looks a bit like part of the uk tv antenna socket but with part missing
[19:20] <mfa298> if it's a fairly standard size of coax I'd be tempted to chop off those plugs and put on something more useful (bnc/sma/N)
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[19:21] <SP9UOB> Any other Denmark stations :) ?
[19:22] <SP9UOB> evening All
[19:22] <zyp> mfa298, yeah, that's what I had in mind
[19:22] <zyp> one of the cables actually had BNC connectors
[19:22] <Upu> a few SP9UOB
[19:23] <Upu> mail Brian
[19:25] <mfa298> if you really wanted to find out what those connectors are you might be best off trying to find out what it was connected to
[19:26] <lbm> SP9UOB: yes, denmark here :-)
[19:26] <zyp> yeah
[19:27] <fsphil> this is denmark calling
[19:27] <fsphil> hmmm... almost time for eurovision
[19:28] <lbm> exactly :-)
[19:28] <zyp> mfa298, it looks like it might be QLS: http://www.telegaertner.com/en/karl-gaertner/coax/artikel/qls.php
[19:31] Darkside (~Darkside@compsci.adl/officialscapegoat/Darkside) joined #highaltitude.
[19:32] <zyp> or the related QMA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QMA_and_QN_connector
[19:34] <SP9UOB> Upu: my planned pico is headinig Denmark :-) http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=4329760e297c7ef322d6cb23e2c19837bc00fa42
[19:35] <Upu> yep you could do with Brian :)
[19:36] <lbm> SP9UOB: i'm able to help you track
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[19:37] <lbm> SP9UOB: when is the flight planned?
[19:37] <SP9UOB> Upu: what is good ascend rate for pico ? less=better i think ?
[19:37] <Upu> < 1m/s
[19:37] <SP9UOB> lbm: if weather permits saturday @ 6 UTC
[19:37] <Upu> as slow as you can go and still go up :)
[19:38] <daveake> Whatever minimum angle avoids the nearest tree :)
[19:38] <SP9UOB> Upu: it can be hard :-) I never filled those Qualatex envelopes
[19:38] <SP9UOB> daveake: i have airport to launch :-)
[19:38] <lbm> SP9UOB: i'll try
[19:39] <daveake> Nearest control tower then :p
[19:39] <SP9UOB> lbm: thanks :-) 437.600 ish
[19:39] <SP9UOB> daveake: ;-)
[19:40] <lbm> SP9UOB: could you request it added to the ukhas calendar?
[19:41] <SP9UOB> Upu: does Qualatex's have some kind of valve? or so ?
[19:41] <SP9UOB> lbm: yes i;ll do it
[19:41] <Upu> just a small valve you stick the filler in
[19:41] <Upu> self sealing
[19:42] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:filling_foil_balloons
[19:42] <SP9UOB> Upu: so eventually i can add more gas if needed?
[19:42] <Upu> check this out : http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/19992_trj001.gif
[19:42] <Upu> yes
[19:43] <Upu> if that carries on and moves over France I'm launching a foil on Sat too :)
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, did you get my question of yesterday?
[19:44] <SP9UOB> Upu: can You do the same prediction for me?
[19:44] <Upu> sure
[19:44] <Upu> 45 hour flight time
[19:44] <Upu> ?
[19:44] <SP9UOB> anyway: 4000 is default altitude for picos?
[19:44] <SP9UOB> Upu: should be ok
[19:44] <Upu> 3500-4500
[19:44] <Upu> 1 sec
[19:45] <Upu> running
[19:46] <Upu> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/19993_trj001.gif
[19:46] <Upu> thats 50 hours
[19:46] <Upu> if you hit 4500 its going over to Lithiunia
[19:46] <SP9UOB> wow Great
[19:47] <Upu> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplit-bin/trajsrc.pl
[19:47] <Upu> Select GFS put in start next
[19:47] <SP9UOB> oh thanks :-)
[19:47] <Upu> Check Isobaric date and tie
[19:47] <Upu> time
[19:47] <Upu> select run time as appropriate
[19:47] <Upu> stick 3500, 4000 and 4500 in Level height boxes
[19:48] <Upu> then press Request
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, my question was if I can use the product photo of the old sarantel GPS for my report
[19:49] <SP9UOB> Upu: thank You
[19:50] <mattbrejza> im fairly sure if you use the photo in the report and give credit to the author you dont need to ask permission..?
[19:50] <mattbrejza> (not that it hurts to)
[19:51] <Upu> I said you could Lunar
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> ah thanks :)
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> do you still have the photo from the 2012 version of the GPS?
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[19:51] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "Re: [UKHAS] First Launch - Sci1"
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[19:57] <SP9UOB> can someone approve flight doc: f4f6599be575c5b63868a0b89bffe1af
[19:57] <Upu> checking lunar
[19:58] <Upu> 3.3v on ?
[19:58] <Upu> one
[20:01] <Upu> Lunar_Lander
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> the sarantel one, 3.3V
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:02] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_0358.JPG
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> cool thanks!
[20:08] <Laurenceb_> http://hackaday.com/2013/05/14/retrotechtacular-first-laser-transmitter-built-50-years-ago/#comments
[20:08] <Laurenceb_> lol hipster glasses
[20:08] <Laurenceb_> fashion goes full circle
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[20:26] <SP9UOB> night all
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[20:29] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Parachutes - was First Launch - Sci1"
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[20:44] <steve_____> bedtime reading: http://www.answers.com/topic/sideband
[20:44] <steve_____> best explanation I have found today
[20:45] <fsphil> I figured out what sideband meant when I saw an AM signal on an SDR program
[20:46] <fsphil> I'd always thought the audio was in the carrier
[20:46] <steve_____> I was surprised to see both sidebands being transmitted
[20:47] <steve_____> being a complete novice I was only expecting a pair of frequencies
[20:47] <steve_____> not a pair on each sidebad
[20:47] <steve_____> band
[20:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] First Launch - Sci1"
[20:51] <griffonbot> Received email: Henry Hallam "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Decoding RTTY tips"
[20:51] <Laurenceb_> Hallam ?!
[20:51] <Laurenceb_> long time no see
[20:54] <mattbrejza> steve_____: in FSK transmission you only get a pair of signals, the 'other sideband' is a reciever artifact
[20:56] <steve_____> I guess that explains why one is half the power of the other
[20:56] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Decoding RTTY tips"
[20:56] <mattbrejza> well its much less than half
[20:56] <mattbrejza> and always mirrored around the LO
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[21:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Parachutes - was First Launch - Sci1"
[21:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Decoding RTTY tips"
[21:01] number10 (~ombot@host86-158-145-52.range86-158.btcentralplus.com) left irc:
[21:02] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "Re: [UKHAS] Parachutes - was First Launch - Sci1"
[21:04] <mattbrejza> im sure glad mail clients are decent these days
[21:05] <eroomde> steve_____: it falls out of the maths quite nicely
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[21:05] <eroomde> if you multiply a local thing one one frequency with another frequency it all falls out that you get images of the thing you're mixing around the carrier frequency
[21:06] <mattbrejza> which is also what the 'fuzzyness' around each rtty tone is
[21:06] <steve_____> I think I am beginning to understand
[21:07] <steve_____> I've said it before though was not planning on knowing this much about radio :)
[21:07] <mattbrejza> eroomde: that image seems a good reason why to log all GPS output data
[21:07] <junderwood> Not sure whether it was coning or gliding round in circles but it's fascinating data
[21:08] <steve_____> Its nice to have a basic understanding though
[21:09] <steve_____> thx
[21:09] <eroomde> junderwood: they're sort of the same thing but as a function of where the system center of mass isn, aren't they?
[21:10] <junderwood> caused by the same phenomena but look completely different
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[21:10] <junderwood> coning is dynamic and needs a certain amount of momentum to keep it going
[21:11] <junderwood> gliding round in circles can be relatively quick or glacially slow
[21:12] <eroomde> might be worth some time-series analysis of that kml
[21:12] <eroomde> i don't remember the sample rate
[21:12] <eroomde> 4 or 1Hz i guess
[21:12] <junderwood> it's a shame kml doesn't include time stamps
[21:13] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Decoding RTTY tips"
[21:13] <junderwood> should be possible to divide time of flight by number of data points
[21:13] <eroomde> you weren't saying that a few years ago...
[21:14] <mattbrejza> tbh should use DMA
[21:14] <mattbrejza> :P
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[21:17] <eroomde> jcoxon: what was the sample rate for the haps-1 gps log?
[21:17] <eroomde> was it 1hz or 4hz or something else?
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[21:24] <jcoxon> ummmm 1hz i think
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[21:29] <Upu> is Alan Oakden on here ?
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[21:29] <eroomde> the dr will see you now
[21:29] <junderwood> 3.6 m between samples
[21:30] <Laurenceb_> what are you trying to work out?
[21:30] <junderwood> Either (a) 1 Hz sampling rate or (b) parachute too small
[21:30] Action: Laurenceb_ tl;dr
[21:30] <jcoxon> eroomde, why?
[21:30] <eroomde> email list
[21:31] <junderwood> Trying to decide whether HAPS-1 was coning or gliding round in circles
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> what was HAPS-1?
[21:33] <junderwood> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/missions:haps:haps-1
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[21:33] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: 2008 flight from cam with james and doug
[21:34] <eroomde> the one before nova 8 also with doug
[21:34] <eroomde> with the dawn panorama
[21:34] <junderwood> Period was between 5 and 8 seconds. Rather quick for flying round in circles, rather slow for coning.
[21:35] <junderwood> My bet would be coning with the parachute a long way (10m?) above the payload
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> ah, interesting
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> i have my rogallo data .. somewhere
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> was ~300m radius circles after the servo broke iirc
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> 2.5m vertical, 9m/s horizontal
[21:39] <junderwood> Was that a HAB flight?
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[21:41] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
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[21:43] <Laurenceb_> shhhh
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> it was a technically a parachute flight
[21:44] <junderwood> I would be very interested to know how it performed at high altitude.
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> 11km launch
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> so not that high
[21:45] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] First Launch - Sci1"
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> it just scaled pretty much 'perfectly'
[21:45] <junderwood> We're planning something similar in the future (in a non-controlled, definitely not UAV sort of way)
[21:46] <junderwood> Same L/D all the way from 11km?
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> to within the error - there was up/down drafts and mess etc
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> and vertical velocity scaled as you would expect
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> all pretty predictable
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> there were some bursts of stalling - looked like turbulence to me
[21:49] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] First Launch - Sci1"
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> it was slightly back heavy
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> rather lightly built for a ~10m/s landing, so i based the trim off a scale model without glide testing it at all
[21:52] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] First Launch - Sci1"
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> i aimed to verge on back heavy, that way its unconditionally stable, as you take CoG forwards you reach a point where its vulnerable to "death diving"
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> theres a relatively small region in the middle where its stable and hard to stall
[21:53] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "Re: [UKHAS] First Launch - Sci1"
[21:55] <junderwood> I would expect the parachute to be much more sensitive to control inputs at higher altitudes
[21:56] <junderwood> It's a shame you didn't take it a bit higher.
[21:56] <junderwood> For the sort of parachute and payload sizes that tend to get flown, the "interesting" altitudes tend to be above about 15 km
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[21:57] <Laurenceb_> yeah... pity the servo broke a km or so down
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> and it saw being goofy right from the start
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> due to knot coming undone -> slack in the control
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[21:58] <Willdude123> Evening.
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> s/saw/was
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[21:58] <junderwood> Shame.
[21:59] <junderwood> Definitely worth trying again at some stage
[21:59] <Laurenceb_> yeah, i learnt to appreciate the reason for knots
[21:59] <Laurenceb_> work happened :P
[21:59] <junderwood> :)
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[22:00] <Laurenceb_> its not exactly hard to do
[22:00] <Laurenceb_> you just need to understand rogallo behaviour if you are taking that route
[22:00] Upu- (~Upu@2a00:14f0:e028:0:544e:c31e:57f3:c250) joined #highaltitude.
[22:01] <Laurenceb_> theres little documentation, i built 5 different prototypes
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[22:01] <junderwood> I was thinking more in terms of a ram-air but rogallos look much more basic
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[22:02] <junderwood> (=simple)
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[22:05] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] First Launch - Sci1"
[22:08] <eroomde> sleepy time - nn
[22:08] <Willdude123> Night ed
[22:10] <chrisstubbs> I have spent most of the evening converting upus UBX ACK parser to python
[22:10] <Willdude123> Cool.
[22:10] <chrisstubbs> no errors which is a good start. but i dont think its going into flight mode :P
[22:10] <Willdude123> Ack?
[22:10] <fsphil> sound I make when something doesn't work
[22:11] <chrisstubbs> haha
[22:11] <chrisstubbs> acknowledgement
[22:11] <chrisstubbs> when you tell it to go to flight mode, it will respond with an ACK packet
[22:12] <chrisstubbs> I dont think its sending the command out properly
[22:12] <lz1dev> fsphil: mp3?
[22:12] <lz1dev> :P
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[22:15] <Laurenceb_> the early hand glider guys discovered the rogallo "death dive" and named it appropriately
[22:15] <Laurenceb_> with a CoG shift hang glider, you cant pull yourself back to pull out
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> well sometimes you cant..
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[22:16] <Laurenceb_> this is why the ribs were introduced
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IuFIBNZlUk
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[22:19] <Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sswv4WUi0aY
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[22:20] <junderwood> Looks like a good way to kill yourself :)
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[22:21] <lz1dev> http://i.imgur.com/rI6o1rH.jpg
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[22:21] <Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5p544wUe2Q
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> some crazy slope soaring
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[22:22] <lz1dev> that interlacing
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[22:23] <Laurenceb_> hahah
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r5p544wUe2Q#t=111s
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> L/D just got pwned
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> looks not very sane :-)
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[22:28] <Laurenceb_> mad skillz given the hardware
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[22:33] <chrisstubbs> ooooh yay the gps IS sending back a good response
[22:34] <chrisstubbs> its just my awful python script isnt reading it right
[22:34] <chrisstubbs> think i can sleep on that note, night!
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[23:00] <griffonbot> @steamfire: I have been studying balloons for 10 years, yet I STILL misspell bouyancy. ;-) Always A-OK on polyethylene terephthalate though! #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/steamfire/status/334443113332482048]
[23:08] <Arithmetic> bouy is an odd word, with odd pronunciation in american english at least
[23:10] <Arithmetic> Boo-e and the density ghost. boyyy! is that further than it looks
[23:11] <jonsowman> buoy...
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[00:00] --- Wed May 15 2013