highaltitude.log.20130510

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[00:10] <arko> woot my pico boards shipped
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[02:32] <BrainDamage> http://spacehams.blogspot.ca/
[02:33] <Darkside> looool
[02:37] <arko> wat
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[04:54] <KF7FER> wow... campsite in the sky for only $2k?
[04:55] <KF7FER> I know, I'm late. sorry
[04:56] <KF7FER> of course if you want to be really crazy, check out: http://nearspaceorbust.blogspot.com/
[04:56] <KF7FER> the blog is behind the times but they are going to launch a pair of mice soon
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[05:57] <arko> haha
[05:57] <arko> i recognized the location based on the mountain form
[05:57] <arko> Riverside
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[05:58] <arko> 100mi from where we launched
[05:59] <KF7FER> small world?
[05:59] <arko> haha
[05:59] <arko> yeah
[06:00] <KF7FER> you aren't helping them then? I got a mail about some JPL guy helping with the project
[06:00] <arko> am i?
[06:00] <arko> i dunno
[06:00] <arko> i dont think so :P
[06:01] <arko> though i would like to meet said jpler
[06:01] <KF7FER> heh. got me. I've been helping Larry with a tracker to make sure the mice live
[06:01] <arko> wait your a jpler?
[06:01] <KF7FER> I'll double-check my mails at let you know ;-)
[06:01] <KF7FER> not me
[06:01] <arko> oh
[06:01] <KF7FER> long distance
[06:01] <arko> gotcha
[06:01] <arko> yeah that would be cool, it's hard to find hab people in LA
[06:01] <arko> or maybe i suck at finding them
[06:02] <KF7FER> hard? try the big city of Salem, oregon. Seems like nobody cares about HAB here
[06:02] <KF7FER> LA... big city... bright lights and all that shite
[06:02] <arko> yeah
[06:02] <arko> but we have crappy landing spots
[06:02] <arko> mountains
[06:02] <arko> sucks
[06:02] <KF7FER> damn mountains getting in the way
[06:03] <arko> i know one guy who makes habs professionally for jpl, but he's a bit hard to talk to...
[06:03] <arko> long story
[06:04] <KF7FER> I'm bummed you're not the JPL guy I heard about :-/ Will have to dig deeper
[06:05] <KF7FER> mice in space - what's not to love about that? well, other than mice poo
[06:05] <arko> haha
[06:05] <arko> ooo just remembered that one of spacecrafts we've been working on is finally going to be spacecraft assembly facility
[06:05] <KF7FER> cool!
[06:05] <arko> i shall pay it a visit tomorrow, so far i have only known it on paper and computer
[06:06] <arko> nice to see the actual hardware :P
[06:06] <arko> or seen pieces
[06:06] <KF7FER> sounds so horrible ;-)
[06:06] <arko> hehe
[06:06] <arko> the horrible stuff is seeing the tests
[06:06] <KF7FER> so you're doing a pico board?
[06:07] <arko> yeah!
[06:07] <arko> arrives tomorrow :)
[06:07] <KF7FER> tell me more... inquiring minds and all that
[06:07] <arko> its nothing special really
[06:07] <arko> HX1 on 144.390, ublox, and 328
[06:07] <KF7FER> cool! what does it weigh? Can I see it? Wanna see mine?
[06:08] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/e7mNWzz.png
[06:08] <arko> goal is less than 50g with 2 AA batteries
[06:08] <Darkside> use a chip antenna
[06:08] <arko> gonna launch it after my talk at the Layerone conference :)
[06:08] <arko> Darkside: yeah, takes the weight away
[06:08] <KF7FER> nice. And yes, Darkside is 100% correct ;-)
[06:09] <arko> not to mention, it wont cost me $20 an antenna
[06:09] <KF7FER> buy from Upu it's closer to $10 ;-)
[06:10] <arko> i always buy my hab gear from Upu :P he had 1 of the active antennas so didn't want to take that away
[06:10] <arko> plus i wanted two
[06:10] <arko> :P
[06:12] <KF7FER> no argument there - Upu gives good hardware w/ fast delivery. Considering the whole "old world" thing
[06:12] <KF7FER> I've got 6 SL1252's here for new boards ;-)
[06:12] <arko> yeah it's crazy, his stuff arrives faster than some things from the US
[06:12] <KF7FER> but the chip antenna rocks!
[06:13] Action: arko regrets not doing a chip antenna
[06:13] <KF7FER> next time ;-)
[06:13] <arko> heh yeah
[06:13] <arko> i want to move away from the HX1 anyway
[06:13] <KF7FER> I've been surprised how well the chip antenna works
[06:13] <arko> so im redesigning for sure
[06:13] <KF7FER> and +1 for that, yes. Me too.
[06:13] <KF7FER> HX1 works but there must be better
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[06:22] <KF7FER> arko.. my "pico-ish" board is https://www.dropbox.com/s/sflgacbkdufculh/newBoard.png
[06:22] <arko> wow
[06:22] <KF7FER> with a SL1252 that is ;-)
[06:22] <arko> nice work!
[06:23] <KF7FER> thanks. Props to Upu and Darkside for their help
[06:23] <Darkside> :P
[06:23] <arko> why the offset pins?
[06:23] <KF7FER> offset?
[06:23] <arko> Yeah, Upu looked mine over too, y'all are nice peeps :)
[06:23] <KF7FER> oh for expansion? blame sparkfun
[06:23] <arko> yeah
[06:23] <arko> sparkfun?
[06:24] <arko> i mean, i know who they are
[06:24] <KF7FER> they give a footprint for headers that hold themselves on the board
[06:24] <KF7FER> offset so to speak ;-)
[06:24] <KF7FER> or am I wrong?
[06:24] <arko> ah
[06:25] <arko> hmm i've never actually used those
[06:25] <arko> hah
[06:25] <KF7FER> they work great
[06:25] <KF7FER> anyways... thanks to some VERY cool peeps I've done some great work
[06:25] <arko> :)
[06:27] <KF7FER> well I'm on contract for the wonderful state of Oregon and have to be in the office by 8am helping with the Windows 7 migration so I must be off
[06:27] <KF7FER> please kill me now ;-)
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[06:33] <arko> good luck hah
[06:33] <arko> win7 aint that bad
[06:34] <KF7FER> win7 isn't the problem... it's trying to identify what apps 5k people have installed on their machines
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[06:35] <KF7FER> based on an analysis of their registry keys
[06:36] <KF7FER> Some apps like Visual Studio or SQL Server put 20+ registy keys after an install and each one is available as a stand-alone installation
[06:37] <arko> !fun
[06:38] <KF7FER> oh well, stuff happens
[06:38] <KF7FER> anyways... nice board.
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[06:38] <KF7FER> my last beer so it's time to go :-/
[06:38] <arko> thanks, you too
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[07:08] <cm13g09> KF7FER: Don't worry, I'm doing what you're doing on a smaller scale (~1k users) this summer - I'll agree it's painful!
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[10:00] <cuddykid> ping Upu
[10:00] <cuddykid> UpuWork rather :)
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[10:03] <Brace> KF7FER: where in Oregon? I have family in Portland and have visited once, lovely place
[10:03] <cuddykid> does the Funcube dongle need a HABAmp?
[10:03] <Darkside> no
[10:03] <Darkside> tough it helps
[10:04] <Darkside> though
[10:04] <Darkside> the new fcd++ probably doesnt need it
[10:04] <cuddykid> ok, cheers
[10:04] <cuddykid> Darkside: and is this the right EZCAP dongle: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EZCAP-FM-DAB-Radio-DVB-T-Digital-TV-USB-Receiver-Dongle-Stick-w-Antenna-Remote-/151014219517?pt=UK_Computing_Video_Capture_TV_Tuner_Cards&hash=item2329261efd
[10:06] <UpuWork> hey cuddykid
[10:06] <cuddykid> morning UpuWork - just looking at the EZCAPs as someone has asked me
[10:06] <UpuWork> original funcude it helps
[10:06] <UpuWork> ok
[10:06] <cuddykid> either going for Funcube ++
[10:06] <cuddykid> or EZCAP + preamp
[10:07] <cuddykid> is the price difference worth it for fc++?
[10:07] <UpuWork> Funcube + tbh
[10:07] <UpuWork> yeah its as sensitive as an 817
[10:07] <UpuWork> though still think the habamp may help
[10:07] <UpuWork> should do a SAWless habamp for it :)
[10:08] <cuddykid> excellent, cheers :)
[10:13] <cuddykid> anyone have an old HAM radio (suitable for HAB tracking) up for sale?
[10:15] <griffonbot> Received email: MikeB "[UKHAS] Re: School project needs some help - Bristol"
[10:16] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] School project needs some help - Bristol"
[10:19] <mfa298> I've found the FCD+ is very close performance to the FT817 (to the point the FT817 didn't get used the last couple of times I've tried tracking)
[10:20] <mfa298> FCD+ also has the benefit of being able to work when people try 868Mhz payloads or if you want to listen to HF etc.
[10:22] <UpuWork> well last launch with CHEAPO the FCD with the HABAmp performed way better than the 817
[10:22] Nick change: M0JSN -> jonsowman
[10:23] <mfa298> FCD+ can also help when there are multiple payloads (as long as they're close together), that's the one time the rtl-sdrs are more useful.
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[10:32] <gonzo_> the fcd pro+ has saw filters and lna in for 2mtrs and 70cm. So i expect it is close in performance to the 817?
[10:32] <fsphil> I must try the FCD+ on my colinear
[10:32] <gonzo_> Also has excellent performance on 6mtrs
[10:32] <fsphil> that'll properly test its filters
[10:33] <gonzo_> they were added after the esperience of the mk1
[10:33] <mfa298> it also seemed to perform well on HF with 5m or wire chucked out a window
[10:33] <gonzo_> I really should use mione
[10:33] <gonzo_> only ever plugged it in to test
[10:33] <fsphil> the linux support is not quite there yet
[10:33] <mfa298> I did find a module for gnuradio which I've got half working
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[10:34] <mfa298> https://github.com/dl1ksv/gr-fcdproplus
[10:34] <gonzo_> have a rev1, which I use as an SDR add on to the 817. Tapped the 63mcs IF out and feed the FCD with that
[10:35] <fsphil> gqrx treats it the same as the FCD, means the sample rate is wrong and it won't tune
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[10:36] <mfa298> with that module it seemed to find the fcd+ but not the HID control interface.
[10:36] <mfa298> I've not got much further than that yet.
[10:36] <gonzo_> I have only ever used spectravue and the simple tune prog
[10:37] <fsphil> having the sdr program do the tuning is vastly better :)
[10:37] <gonzo_> as I'm onlt setting it once for IF work
[10:37] <fsphil> ah true
[10:37] <gonzo_> with the pro+ that may have to change though
[10:37] <mfa298> I've mostly really used it on windows so far. But tryign to make the old netbook useful for mobile HAB
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[12:11] <BrainDamage> the future of hab! http://spacehams.blogspot.ca/
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[12:12] <Laurenceb> wtf
[12:12] <daveake> It's a "habitat", Jim, but not as we know it
[12:13] <fsphil> those brave habsters
[12:13] <Laurenceb> i lolled
[12:13] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qST2EbH94E&feature=player_embedded
[12:19] <mfa298> seems like that blog is missing a fair bit of real science - I just read the bit about flying a tent for a person (only needs 55 baloons)
[12:20] <Laurenceb> im not sure but..
[12:20] <Laurenceb> i think it might be troll
[12:21] <mfa298> it seems like it should be but it doesn't read like one.
[12:22] <BrainDamage> seems the guy also works on other projects: http://hampture.blogspot.ca/
[12:23] <Laurenceb> oh
[12:24] <Laurenceb> yeah its troll
[12:25] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "[UKHAS] Old Radio For Sale? (Suitable for HAB tracking)"
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[12:44] <WILLdude> Hi
[12:44] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[12:44] <WILLdude> Sorry
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> it's OK.
[12:53] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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[13:02] <wa0vus> Getting all lined up for balloon launch at 1400z in Iowa
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[13:09] <SpeedEvil> good lick!
[13:11] Action: Laurenceb worked out the mass for an injector pumped version of the peroxide/kerosene rocket
[13:11] <Babs> No mountain recovery equipment needed there wa0vus
[13:11] <Laurenceb> turns out its about 6kg, about the same as the piston pump thing in the pdf
[13:13] <Laurenceb> www.quantumg.net/mockingbird.pdf <- that
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[13:16] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: what about stupid. blow down pressure fed.
[13:16] <Laurenceb> that gives crazy tank mass, check their numbers
[13:16] <Laurenceb> they made it work using light tanks
[13:17] <Laurenceb> peroxide giffard injectors are very light, they can be made from nylon or ptfe
[13:17] <Laurenceb> but the regenerative condenser to get the steam weights about 5Kg or so
[13:19] <Laurenceb> actually.. i think you can pump liquid oxygen using an injector
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[13:21] <SpeedEvil> 404
[13:21] <SpeedEvil> oh, nvm
[13:21] <SpeedEvil> it took a couple of bogus vchara at the end
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> ah, right.
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> ,y attempt at a design was rather more modest.
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> I was looking at structural and other fractions more like 30% of total mass.
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> and accepting multiple stages as a cost of doing business
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[13:27] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/PxqrA9P.png
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[13:29] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[13:29] <Laurenceb> never seen that idea before..
[13:29] <Laurenceb> but the thermodynamics seem to work
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[13:30] <Laurenceb> you need a way to condense all the oxygen
[13:30] <Laurenceb> raising the pressure does it
[13:30] <Laurenceb> no moving parts and can be made from plastic
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[13:34] <SpeedEvil> looks plauusibkle.
[13:34] <SpeedEvil> but I'm mostly asleep.
[13:34] <Laurenceb> odd that so few people have looked at this idea
[13:34] <Laurenceb> theres a lot of papers from the 1960s
[13:35] <SpeedEvil> turbopump s are great
[13:35] <SpeedEvil> and efficient
[13:35] <Laurenceb> but they dont seem to understand the thermodynamics properly, and some of them use stuff of steam trains
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[13:35] <Laurenceb> which is hardly ideal
[13:35] <SpeedEvil> and nobody really makes small rockets
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[13:35] <Laurenceb> i found one paper where they used compressed air and wondered why it failed
[13:35] <SpeedEvil> hah
[13:36] <Laurenceb> everything needs to condense for it to work :P
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> enthalpy, enthalpy, they've all got it enthalpy.
[13:36] <Laurenceb> yeah
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[13:47] <Laurenceb> wow
[13:47] Action: Laurenceb has been setting wheetos on fire
[13:47] <Laurenceb> energy density is insane
[13:47] <Laurenceb> these are like fireworks
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[13:49] <BrainDamage> next rocket fuel generation: breakfast cereals
[13:50] <Laurenceb> yeah
[13:50] <BrainDamage> https://lh3.ggpht.com/_RsCCizsWvNw/SmoRlJba-wI/AAAAAAAAEIo/KnaFaYpy1iU/s400/weetos+003.jpg
[13:50] <gonzo_> I know someopne who loads rifle cartriages with rice crispies
[13:50] <Laurenceb> no - not the breakfast things
[13:50] <BrainDamage> seems relevant
[13:51] <Laurenceb> these were some own brand onion ring type things
[13:51] <Laurenceb> like crisps - lost the packet now
[13:51] <Laurenceb> http://www.glutenfreetraderjoes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/onion-rings-in-bowl.jpg
[13:51] <Laurenceb> that sort of stuff
[13:56] <Laurenceb> http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=52.866591,-1.210299&spn=0.020259,0.038581&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=52.866627,-1.210145&panoid=V9OVYO-NHt-vAvuh6o9Lhw&cbp=12,142.63,,2,2.08
[13:56] <Laurenceb> where is batman?
[13:57] <Randomskk> I more enjoy the "parking her could cost a child's life" and "show you care, park elsewhere" sign...
[13:57] <Randomskk> ...directly in front of a ton of parked cars?
[13:57] <Laurenceb> i know lol
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[14:09] <Babs> Suddenly it all makes sense. The doughnut shaped contrails rumoured to be out of the back of the hypersonic aurora plane are actually a result of them using onion ring type breakfast cereal to generate thrust. http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/63173/
[14:10] <Babs> I bet they've got a patent on that one too laurenceb
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[14:47] <griffonbot> Received email: Solar Balloonman "[UKHAS] Solar Pico project."
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[14:49] <craag> Ermm that looks to be over 2m in diameter?
[14:50] Nick change: MichaelC1 -> MichaelC
[14:50] Nick change: bertrik_ -> bertrik
[14:56] <mattbrejza> dw, i cant see that getting more than 60m (or whatever the limit is) :P
[14:57] <mfa298> hard to judge the size with no easy reference but it certainly looks like it could be over 2m.
[14:57] <craag> hehe good point
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[14:57] <mfa298> and if he's talking about a larger one that's definetly likely to be >2m
[14:58] <mfa298> the video description talks about it going out of vision and being found 4 miles away so it could have got over 60m. Although I doubt there's much lift from it.
[14:58] <craag> mattbrejza: Got the parts for the charge sensor, will have a go at it this weekend
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[15:00] <mattbrejza> oh cool :)
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[15:01] <mfa298> around 45s into that video you can just glimpse the tops of some trees so it's not that high up.
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[15:09] <craag> Still, cool idea, just can't see it being that useful (or easy to track :P)
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[16:27] <arko> mornin
[16:28] <arko> im looking for a google reader replacement :/
[16:28] <arko> this empty void is missing
[16:28] <arko> this reader is missing, leaving an empty void*
[16:28] <eroomde> arko: http://i.imgur.com/Da4FK3v.png
[16:28] Action: arko hasn't had coffee
[16:28] <arko> wow
[16:28] <eroomde> so the dataset is using sats 30, 31, 2 and 25
[16:29] <eroomde> and 29
[16:29] <eroomde> so varience is much much tighter roughly in the axis they lie on
[16:29] <eroomde> SW/NE
[16:29] <arko> whats the error on that?
[16:29] <eroomde> and much greater in the axis SE/NW
[16:29] <arko> yeah
[16:29] <eroomde> where there aren't so many good sats
[16:29] <arko> ellipse
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[16:31] <arko> do you have this updating live on google earth?
[16:31] <eroomde> no, just per dataset atm
[16:32] <arko> ah cool
[16:32] <eroomde> still doing tracking loop development
[16:33] <arko> just wondering, would be interesting to see the error change shapes as the sats pass over head
[16:34] <eroomde> yes def
[16:34] <eroomde> will get there
[16:35] <Laurenceb> eroomde: what gui is that?
[16:35] <Laurenceb> nice results
[16:35] <Laurenceb> pity about the unity
[16:36] <eroomde> matplotlib
[16:36] <Laurenceb> nice
[16:36] <Laurenceb> and for the map?
[16:36] <eroomde> google earth
[16:36] <eroomde> i just made a function that makes an ellipse kml from a dataset
[16:36] <Laurenceb> ah
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[16:36] <Laurenceb> looks better than me and hallam got
[16:37] <eroomde> the annoying thing about google earth is the absolute position accuracy of the image tiles is a big wobbly
[16:37] <Laurenceb> this with kalman filter to get positon?
[16:37] <Laurenceb> yeah ive seen that
[16:37] <eroomde> bit*
[16:37] <eroomde> can be a few m out
[16:37] <eroomde> this is using a vectored kalman filter
[16:37] <Laurenceb> ok
[16:37] <eroomde> so the state vector includes the positions of every single sat
[16:37] <Laurenceb> wtf
[16:37] <eroomde> and puts a prior on where it expects the code phase and carrier to be given all the other sats
[16:37] <Laurenceb> thats going to kill the processor
[16:38] <eroomde> it's still a fairly small kalman filter
[16:38] <Laurenceb> size of state vector?
[16:38] <eroomde> this big: |----------------------------------------|
[16:38] <Laurenceb> how many terms :P
[16:38] <eroomde> but i'm not exactly going to be running this on an atmega if/when it eventually gets realtime
[16:38] <eroomde> it'll be a decent FPGA and dsp chip
[16:39] <Laurenceb> yeah i guess with fpga...
[16:39] <Laurenceb> but if its floats everywhere
[16:39] <eroomde> the std devs are pretty good now with this tracking
[16:39] <Laurenceb> you cant exactly have a ton of parallel fpus
[16:39] <eroomde> for 100 raw samples, st devs projected onto the ground are about 0.9m and 1.5m
[16:39] <Laurenceb> not bad at all
[16:39] <eroomde> 1000 raw samples*
[16:40] <Laurenceb> but i saw drift over larger timescales
[16:40] <Laurenceb> most related to ionospheric
[16:40] <eroomde> well we've got ionospheric correction but yes, we don;t have any say 1 hour datasets to compare to
[16:40] <eroomde> however, working on a new dual freq receiver anyway
[16:40] <Laurenceb> longer == ~10seconds
[16:40] <eroomde> so we can knife that problem in the heart
[16:40] <Laurenceb> sheeet
[16:40] <Laurenceb> thats hardcore
[16:41] <eroomde> 1khz positions at on your mach 5 rocket to within 5cm accuracy
[16:41] <eroomde> yum yum
[16:41] Action: Laurenceb has been devising nutty thermodynamics thingies
[16:41] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/PxqrA9P.png
[16:41] <eroomde> POA
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[16:42] <eroomde> right gtg
[16:44] <arko> yikes
[16:44] <arko> http://www.geekosystem.com/ammonia-leak-iss/
[16:44] <arko> ammonia leak on the iss
[16:51] <Laurenceb> am moaning about it
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[16:55] <x-f> eroomde, what is the maximum altitude for your GPS?
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[16:55] <cuddykid> life must have to be really bad to resort to sniffing epoxy - that stuff is gut wrenching
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[18:19] <arko> http://vimeo.com/7638752#
[18:20] <arko> uk peeps ^
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[18:47] <mfa298> arko: impressive find!
[18:48] <arko> >_> i cheated, it was on reddit
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[18:48] <mfa298> it's still a valid way of finding things.
[18:49] <arko> indeed
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[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:09] <chrisstubbs> Hey LL
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> finally the weekend
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> for you too?
[19:11] <chrisstubbs> at last :)
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[19:13] <number10> arko good video. I always find it facinating that nearly evryone wore hats in those days.
[19:14] Steffanx (~Steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx) joined #highaltitude.
[19:14] <arko> no necked people
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[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> evening GW8RAK
[19:14] <number10> i have pictures of my father from the same time - he was the only one not weraing a hat
[19:14] <number10> wearing
[19:15] <GW8RAK> Hello Lunar_Lander how are you?
[19:15] <arko> number10: rebel :P
[19:16] <number10> :) he probaly was
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> GW8RAK, quite good, thanks and you?
[19:17] <GW8RAK> Life is good at present but very busy at work
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> same here
[19:22] <chrisstubbs> Upu did you download the design rules file for hackvana?
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> GW8RAK, but it is good to have you back here :)
[19:23] <Upu> yes
[19:23] <chrisstubbs> Upu is it just the CAM file?
[19:23] <Upu> just looking for them
[19:23] <chrisstubbs> ah ok cheers :)
[19:24] <Upu> oh its just the cam
[19:24] <Upu> I made my own DRU 1 sec
[19:24] <GW8RAK> I'm trying to find time for some electronics and other things, but currently playing with robotics and Raspberry Pi
[19:24] <Upu> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5qqwpvg7nn9ews3/Hackvana.dru
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[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:26] <chrisstubbs> thanks
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[19:43] <nigelvh> arko, that is an amazing find. Despite me being a bit late to the party.
[19:55] <fsphil> hey good video
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[20:05] Nick change: bertrik_ -> bertrik
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> wonder if you could map the color back to real life
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[20:07] <EspacioCercano> Hello everyone
[20:08] <nigelvh> Hello not everyone.
[20:09] <lz1dev> hello subset of everyone
[20:10] <x-f> hello others
[20:10] Action: EspacioCercano has created a monster :P
[20:11] <EspacioCercano> btw, I'm having a hard time trying to find any available UnitraQ GT-320FW GPS modules. Argent Data is out of stock and I can't seem to find it anywhere else on the Internet. Any ideas?
[20:14] <nigelvh> Most of the UK guys use the uBlox Max6 module
[20:14] <nigelvh> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_60
[20:14] <nigelvh> You need to send it a command to enter flight mode, but it will support high altitude well.
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[20:21] <nigelvh> I don't know if Upu is on now, but he runs the store I linked to, so should be able to answer any questions about those modules.
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> hey EspacioCercano
[20:23] <EspacioCercano> Thanks nigelvh
[20:23] <nigelvh> Yep
[20:23] <EspacioCercano> Hey Lunar_Lander
[20:24] <Upu> hi
[20:24] <Upu> you do need to send a command
[20:24] <Upu> but its quite easy and they are very proven
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> evening Upu
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[20:26] <Upu> hi lunar
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> today I finally got tinyGPS to give, at least, the blank spaces which would be there for no signal
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> maybe that is good
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> don't know
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[20:39] <nigelvh> Upu, quick question if you're still around?
[20:39] <Upu> shoot
[20:40] <nigelvh> I'm looking at the FAQ on your store. Specifically about charging VAT even for customers outside the UK, and am just wondering why you publish the non VAT prices on your store if you'll charge it no matter what?
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[20:40] <Upu> err thats generally how its done with shops
[20:41] <Upu> as businesses can claim it back
[20:41] <Upu> it also makes it easier for my accounts people with the invoices
[20:42] <nigelvh> So publishing the non vat price even though you're going to charge vat makes it easier for the accounts people?
[20:42] <Upu> its all accounty stuff
[20:43] <Upu> which I don't generally get involved with
[20:43] <nigelvh> I understand the reasons for charging it, just seems odd to publish the price like it's an option.
[20:43] <Upu> thats just the default on the shop
[20:43] <nigelvh> But thanks for the clarification.
[20:43] <Upu> and when schools in the UK buy stuff they can claim it back so we have to itemise it
[20:43] <nigelvh> I see.
[20:44] <oh7lzb> Over here shops selling mostly to consumers are required to publish the final prices incl. VAT
[20:45] <Upu> well as my company is VAT registered I think thats also applicable here
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[20:45] <oh7lzb> shops selling to companies (and others who do not pay VAT or can reclaim it) can publish prices without VAT
[20:45] <nigelvh> Yes, that makes sense.
[20:46] <oh7lzb> but I don't understand what published prices have to do with accounting...
[20:46] <Upu> well they appear on the invoice which makes my accounts departments lives easier
[20:46] <nigelvh> Just as a person who wouldn't be subject to VAT, it had lead me to believe (before reading the FAQ) that I could get them at the lower price.
[20:46] <Upu> I know I get asked about it alot
[20:47] <nigelvh> I suppose that's why it's in the FAQ
[20:47] <Upu> at the end of the day I never realised this was going to be so popular
[20:47] <oh7lzb> ok, so just a technical thing, you have to put in VATless prices and the shop shows those, just to get them in the accounting db and invoices
[20:47] <Upu> I was really concerned about buying 50 GPS modules
[20:47] <Upu> I shipped my 500th last week
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[20:47] <oh7lzb> heh
[20:48] <oh7lzb> good, good
[20:54] <arko> living room in Hyde Park: http://i.imgur.com/aHMIvTg.jpg
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[20:56] <Upu> yeah budget hotels in London are ropey
[20:56] <arko> hrh'
[20:56] <arko> heh
[20:59] <chrisstubbs> How do you make Eagle refresh the DRC check list after fixing things?
[20:59] <fsphil> mine had a TV...
[21:00] <nigelvh> rerun it
[21:01] <chrisstubbs> Ah found the "Check
[21:01] <chrisstubbs> " button
[21:01] <chrisstubbs> i was only using the "show list" button before
[21:01] <Upu> chrisstubbs just load it and apply
[21:01] <nigelvh> I just hit the DRC button on the left side.
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[21:02] <nigelvh> Once I've fixed things, I hit it again and it checks again.
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[21:13] <chrisstubbs> nigelvh, oh i see the one you mean
[21:13] <chrisstubbs> i was pressing the yellow !
[21:13] <chrisstubbs> :)
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[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, congrats on the 500th sold GPS :)
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[22:37] <Laurenceb_> http://www.garvspace.com/index.html
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> interesting
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[22:44] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> bookmarked
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> I have been having a couple of days when I'm basically asleep.
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> unpleasant.
[22:46] Nick change: DanielRi1hman -> DanielRichman
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> :(
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[23:03] <Laurenceb_> http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=1343487
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[23:42] <Laurenceb_> WTF
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> do poeple buy train fares at this time or something
[23:42] <nigelvh> maybe&.?
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> each time i hit f5 on nationalrail.co.uk the prices have increased
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> gove £55 to £135 in 3 minutes
[23:42] <nigelvh> Damn
[23:43] <Laurenceb_> im not even sure i want to bother...
[23:43] <nigelvh> Where are you trying to go?
[23:45] <Laurenceb_> london
[23:45] <nigelvh> Is it worth the monies?
[23:46] <Laurenceb_> no
[23:46] <Laurenceb_> i dont understand wtf is happening
[23:46] <Laurenceb_> just jumped to £186
[23:46] <nigelvh> Damn
[23:47] <Laurenceb_> maybe some trainline script kiddy is trolling me
[23:47] <nigelvh> You just need to get into the SELLING train tickets business.
[23:47] <Laurenceb_> try and price a journey from derby to london euston square on 17/5/13
[23:48] <Laurenceb_> hmm ill try avoiding the tube...
[23:48] <nigelvh> What time?
[23:48] <nigelvh> return?
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> yeah return
[23:49] <nigelvh> Same day?
[23:49] <nigelvh> Times?
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> midday ish arrive then return in evening..
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> yes
[23:50] <nigelvh> Cheapest fare I see is £64
[23:51] <nigelvh> 2013-05-17 12:00 and 2013-05-17 20:00 from Derby to London Euston and back.
[23:53] <nigelvh> I do see a 186 fare "with Travelcard"
[23:53] <Laurenceb_> no Euston Square
[23:53] <Laurenceb_> underground
[23:54] <nigelvh> Those show cheaper.
[23:55] <nigelvh> http://imgur.com/v4CF9Hc
[00:00] --- Sat May 11 2013