highaltitude.log.20130430

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[03:12] <arko> call me the king of orbital mechanics for one night
[03:12] <arko> i busted out my protractor
[03:12] <nigelvh> kook. Got it.
[03:12] <nigelvh> koom*
[03:12] <nigelvh> ;)
[03:13] <arko> put it on my display, got a damn good trajectory to mars now
[03:13] <arko> barely any delta-V
[03:13] <nigelvh> Nice
[03:14] <arko> i do feel silly with a protractor to a screen but its worth it
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[05:16] <arko> uggg
[05:17] <arko> landing on mars is way harder than i thought
[05:17] <arko> slowing down transorbital velocity takes too much fuel :(
[05:40] <nigelvh> Yes, I didn't figure landing on another planet would be too easy...
[05:47] <KT5TK> No problem. Just go down with full speed and hit the Curiosity rover. Sure you will notice if it worked. No expensive communication gear necessary...
[05:53] <nigelvh> haha
[05:53] <nigelvh> How's the evening treating you KT5TK?
[05:54] <KT5TK> Good. I got my Pecan3 PCBs today
[05:55] <KT5TK> Was just too tired to start populating one tonight
[06:06] <nigelvh> That happens sometimes
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[06:45] <SpeedEvil> arko: aerobraking
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[06:47] <arko> SpeedEvil yeah trying that at the moment actually
[06:58] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pln9JKEjFks&feature=player_embedded
[06:58] <eroomde> back up
[06:59] <SpeedEvil> x-15ellent
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[07:17] <fsphil> it's an odd shape of a thing
[07:28] <x-f> hmm.. yesterday it was flying to the other side :|
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[07:37] <arko> eroomde: i need you to design me some rockets for entering mars atmosphere
[07:37] <arko> but for kerbal
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[07:45] <jonsowman> arko: hahaha your tweet
[07:46] <arko> :)
[07:46] <jonsowman> i have that exact same geoliner
[07:46] <arko> my gf brought it back for me from austria :)
[07:46] <jonsowman> standard engineering dept issue here
[07:47] <arko> nice!
[07:47] <fsphil> oooh cool, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22341160
[07:47] <arko> i love this thing
[07:47] <jonsowman> it has seen me through some difficult times
[07:47] <jonsowman> bwim mechanics and structures examples papers/exams
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[07:48] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[07:49] <fsphil> you're up early
[07:50] <fsphil> I'm always impressed how many replies I get to an automated email our site sends out, where the very first line reads: [This is an automated message - please do not reply]
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[07:58] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "[UKHAS] Launch announcement - Vortex flight 5 - Thursday 2013-05-02"
[08:00] <Randomskk> arko: you have the same geoliner as me and jonsowman!
[08:00] <Randomskk> I... think
[08:01] <Randomskk> oh I see he has already mentioned it :P
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[08:27] <gonzo__> a geoliner, sounds like a land going cruis ship
[08:27] <gonzo__> cruise
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[08:32] <nigelvh> The land titanic
[08:32] <nigelvh> The largest land yacht ever built.
[08:37] <gonzo__> do mountains=iceburgs? At least they will see them coming!
[08:37] <nigelvh> Or mailboxes. Deadly deadly mailboxes.
[08:38] <nigelvh> Deadly enough to breach all 6000 hulls. When will they ever learn!?! If only they had built it with 6000 and 1 hulls.
[08:39] <gonzo__> have to be carefull when jumping over the side into the lifeboats too. Could be a bit splashy
[08:40] <daveake> A friend of mine died under the weight of his mailbox. He POP3ed his clogs.
[08:40] <gonzo__> IMAPpy you told me that
[08:41] <gonzo__> you are aheader the game on mail puns
[08:41] <nigelvh> My smtpies for your loss.
[08:41] <daveake> I shall mime my reply
[08:43] <gonzo__> can we move forward on this?
[08:43] <nigelvh> I'm sure you'll pine on this for a while.
[08:43] <gonzo__> I cc what you mean
[08:43] <gonzo__> it's a good outlook on life
[08:44] <nigelvh> I at least hope it was expressly delivered.
[08:45] <nigelvh> Please allow my to exchange my condolences.
[08:46] <x-f> this may bounce back but i think you're over the quota with these puns
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[08:48] <gonzo__> you are all a load of draft buggers
[08:48] <gonzo__> (sorry, the pun reserves are running dry)
[08:48] <x-f> do-not-reply
[08:50] <gonzo__> virused we continue?
[08:50] <russss> have I plugged my event on Sunday in here yet? https://www.emfcamp.org/wave
[08:50] <russss> you should come. There's a pun in the name
[08:50] <russss> also priyesh and danielsaul are giving a talk
[08:58] <fsphil> there's something fishy about that boat
[08:59] <Babs> Got my BABSHAB stability test thang running side by side. Without counterweights (wobbly), with counterweights (much less wobbly), with spinning counterweights (a little bit less wobbly still). I'll apologize on Jonathan Ives' behalf for the cr@ppy quality of my iphone camera. http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8689422745/in/set-72157632733154985
[08:59] <fsphil> I can't quite plaice it
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[09:09] <gonzo__> he's just codding you on
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[09:55] <shadyron> Hi,
[09:55] <mfa298> welcome
[09:56] <shadyron> I'm looking at obtaining a balloon that has quite a low burst height - something around 5000-6000ft. Does anyone have any recommendations for something that would do this, but still be able to lift a fairly normal(ish) amount - radios, camera, etc.
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[09:57] <mfa298> that probably depends on what you mean by normal(ish), for some people radios. camera etc might be 200g, for others its over 1kg.
[09:57] <mfa298> but this might give some help in determining what will work. http://habhub.org/calc/
[09:57] <shadyron> Fair point - probably looking at around 500g to lift. Most of the stuff I'm coming across makes a big play of getting as high as possible - which is totally understandable.
[09:57] <shadyron> Thanks
[09:58] <mfa298> what are you planning on flying and where are you located ?
[09:58] <shadyron> Hm. Doesn't work with burst altitude <10k
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[09:59] <x-f> use a normal-ish balloon and a cutdown device
[09:59] <shadyron> I'm in the UK, looking at launching in fields south of Leicestershire where it's relatively open, as a science project for a 5 year old. Reason for looking at low burst altitude is to keep his attention - with higher altitudes, flight is looking to be in excess of 45 minutes. The less time, the better. A quick up, down, recover and then look at the captured images - hopefully!
[09:59] <mattbrejza> you may want to try #mediumaltitude (may not exist)
[10:00] <shadyron> matt: Yeah, I feel a bit of a heretic being here and asking for totally the opposite!
[10:00] <mattbrejza> heh
[10:00] <mfa298> with the calc, if you play with balloon size and ascent rate you might get a lower burst, (I just tried kaymont 200, with 7.5m/s ascent and it estimates burst at 6km)
[10:00] <mattbrejza> tbh foil balloons barely go above 5km
[10:01] <shadyron> That's useful to know, thanks. Maybe get multiple foil balloons to lift the required weight.
[10:01] <mattbrejza> you would need quite a few
[10:02] <mattbrejza> might be easier getting a 100g balloon or even a smaller one
[10:02] <mfa298> shadyron: hopefully you're aware of the legal aspects to what you can do in the UK (which is where most of us are so there's plenty of advice avaiable)
[10:03] <shadyron> mfa: Yup. Been reading up on it. Aiming to do it over the summer which is why I'm planning now. Going to be talking to Leicester Airport soon for some advice, too.
[10:03] <mfa298> multiple foil balloons can get interesting if only some of them burst, you could end up with a very slow descent meaning it could travel a long way.
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[10:03] <mfa298> if you've not found it yet http://ukhas.org.uk/ is a very good resource on what most people here use for radio and gps.
[10:04] <mfa298> if you've been looking at american sites suggesting APRS there's a lot of issues with using that in the UK.
[10:04] <shadyron> Yup, that's where I started out. Been using the CU reckoner to try and plot where might be best to launch from. I'm somewhat unfortunate that I live on the North Wales coast, so pretty much any launch from around here is guaranteed to end up in the sea. Thankfully I have family in Leicestershire which is much more convenient.
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[10:04] <shadyron> Been ignoring that :)
[10:05] <shadyron> (I know a bit about radio so appreciate the regulatory stuff - was looking at using a mobile phone for that side of stuff)
[10:06] <mfa298> I think phones stop working somewhere around 2km so they're not idea.
[10:06] <shadyron> I'd only be using it for the GPS element when it's landed - reporting via SMS
[10:07] <shadyron> Although I am aware of coverage issues - would need to check that out beforehand.
[10:08] <mfa298> for preference most uk people go for rtty in the 70cms ism band which works well (even withjust 10mW) but that tends to require some electronics and microprocessor programming.
[10:10] <gonzo__> you could fly a secondary gps/gsm tracker (one of the key fob sized ones?) as a backup, to air with reciovery
[10:10] <gonzo__> but for tracking in-flight, the licence exempt 70cm is your friend
[10:11] <gonzo__> air=aid
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[10:12] Action: shadyron scribbles notes down
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[10:20] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
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[10:35] <eroomde> yoyoyo
[10:35] <eroomde> yo
[10:35] <eroomde> y
[10:35] <Darkside> o
[10:35] <Laurenceb> trolololololol
[10:39] <gonzo__> No singing! (And get that suit on...)
[10:39] <eroomde> at the stars wars, star wars cantina
[10:40] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cAWAIwf3nOY
[10:40] <mattbrejza> eroomde: you enjoy a good appnote? http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/application-note/an118fa.pdf (from page 13, appendix B)
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[10:42] <Laurenceb> lol Note 2
[10:44] <mattbrejza> its also the first time ive seen them put a photo of the actual circuit in the state they work on it in an appnote
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[10:45] <Laurenceb> rofl - didnt spot that
[10:47] <Laurenceb> page 48
[10:47] <mattbrejza> ah yes :D
[10:49] <Babs> The excess solder looks like the baddie terminator from Terminator 2 got all over excited at some point in the proceedings. Was probably watching robot wars or something.
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[11:10] <gonzo__> I remember one book of app notes that were written when the two engineeris has a new baby. The forward explained that when at uni, they would rate writeups in terms of the numbers of pizzaz eaten whilst writing them. So they rated the app notes in terms of the number of feeds the baby had. So there were pictures of bottles on each app note
[11:10] <gonzo__> app notes are only read by engineers, who have a sense of humopur, unlike managers and sales people. So why not have some fun with them!
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[12:13] <g0cxw> Hi, I'm new to this... can anyone let me nkow if there are any balloons being launched this week in the south of England
[12:14] <daveake> There's one in Oxfordshire on Thursday morning
[12:14] <daveake> Are you set up for tracking yet?
[12:18] <g0cxw> I have an SDR and colinear and FLdigi...I just hope I can hear at least a little data
[12:20] <daveake> Depends on the SDR but they tend to be a little deaf compared to a good receiver.
[12:22] <daveake> Other factors of course are your aerial and how high it is, but once the balloon is up over your horizon you should be able to pick it up
[12:23] <daveake> I'm in Berks so I'll get this one when it's just a few 100 metres up. Cambs ones need to be 2-4km for me
[12:29] <g0cxw> Antennas at about 30M above ground but my location is not very high above sea level... Also i'm at work until about 18.00hrs. is there a website for the launch. I'm looking at spacenear.us there seems to be some balloons in the air but no info on frequencies data rates etc
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[12:30] <cuddykid> ordered a powder fire extinguisher :)
[12:30] <cuddykid> £11 incl delivery - not too bad
[12:31] <daveake> What size?
[12:31] <cuddykid> 1kg
[12:31] <daveake> You're only planning on a small fire then? :p
[12:32] <cuddykid> yes haha - will have the fire brigade on speed dial for when the grass catches fire and my fire extinguisher runs out
[12:33] <daveake> Just don't go to the loo before launch
[12:33] <cuddykid> daveake: can you remember the spanner sizes required for attaching the reg?
[12:33] <daveake> You could probably manage best part of 1kg :)
[12:33] <daveake> just a sec
[12:33] <cuddykid> lol
[12:33] <daveake> 19/28
[12:34] <cuddykid> chers
[12:34] <cuddykid> cheers even
[12:34] <daveake> Well if you do set fire to yourself you might want to Turn Back Time
[12:35] <cuddykid> it's going to be a bit odd holding what effectively is a bomb before launch
[12:36] <daveake> Meh
[12:36] <daveake> Well try not to set light to it
[12:36] <cuddykid> :)
[12:36] <cuddykid> daveake: do you store the cylinder outside or inside?
[12:36] <daveake> outside
[12:37] <daveake> They're quite happy outside and you don't want a slow leak inside your house
[12:37] <cuddykid> that's probably a better idea
[12:37] <cuddykid> indeed
[12:37] <daveake> That said it's quite often in the back of the 4x4
[12:39] <cuddykid> predictions look fantastic for sunday/monday where I am - just don't have anything to launch
[12:39] <cuddykid> in fact, anytime in the next week is much better than usual
[12:57] <Babs> Cuddykid - from my experience having had a "meths incident" launching a hot air balloon when I was 8/9 make sure you aren't wearing any synthetic fibres when you launch....
[12:58] <daveake> Well he won't be afterwards :p
[12:59] <cuddykid> lol
[12:59] <Babs> snarf
[12:59] <cuddykid> guess it's a case of mobile phones away too..
[12:59] <cuddykid> never know, highly unlikely but best to be on the safe side
[13:00] <daveake> Well you need h2 + o2 + spark
[13:00] <daveake> Difficult to get the o2 bit without breaking the latex
[13:00] <cuddykid> true
[13:01] <daveake> And if a phone can make a spark at the surface of a nearby balloon, you might want to keep it away from your head anyway
[13:01] <Babs> Maybe do a photoshop of yourself without eyebrows just to make sure its a look you can cope with for a few weeks
[13:01] <daveake> hah
[13:01] <daveake> marker pen
[13:02] <Babs> Unless there is a new series of Stars in their Eyes coming out - "Tonight Matthew, I am going to be Gail Porter"
[13:03] <cuddykid> haha, all in the name of HAB
[13:05] <daveake> High;y Agonizing Burns
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[13:07] <cuddykid> I'm amazed that anyone can just buy canisters of h2 though
[13:07] <daveake> sssh
[13:07] <fsphil> you can buy worse
[13:07] <mattbrejza> yea but then you can get methane out the tap
[13:07] <cuddykid> very true
[13:07] <cuddykid> ha
[13:08] <chris_99> someone could easily make their own hydrogen from drain cleaner and coke cans if they wanted..
[13:08] <daveake> I make my own methane from tins of beans
[13:08] <chris_99> haha
[13:08] <fsphil> the wind in the willows
[13:09] <fsphil> poor mr.toad
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[13:11] <daveake> brust burst
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[13:29] <Brace> trump trump
[13:30] <gonzo_> someone open a window please
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[14:57] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/9BK6XKT.png
[14:57] <eroomde> gps freq downmixer+adc stick for plugging into fpga board
[14:59] <mattbrejza> multilayer must make everything much easier
[14:59] <eroomde> sooooo much
[14:59] <mattbrejza> is that the maxim front end?
[15:00] <eroomde> yup
[15:01] <mattbrejza> is the intention to have multiple of those and do some fancy differnetial stuff?
[15:02] <eroomde> hence the ext osc input :)
[15:02] <mattbrejza> that might have been what gave it away
[15:05] <mattbrejza> it still seems odd that you can get away with a 2 bit output on each channel and thats enough
[15:05] <mattbrejza> does sample at 50MSPS i suppose
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[15:17] <eroomde> 1 bit, just on I, at 16MSPS infact
[15:17] <eroomde> will yeild https://www.dropbox.com/s/9q3fxkqgsfqd2nw/beforeafter.png
[15:17] <eroomde> (PLL vs kalman filter tracking on carrier and code phase, green and orange respectively, ellipses are 1 standard dev from 1000 samples)
[15:18] <mattbrejza> ah nice
[15:18] <mattbrejza> i was probably looking at the other maxim gps IC
[15:18] <mattbrejza> i would assume the ublox is likely to use kalman over PLL?
[15:18] <mattbrejza> and probably lots of other little things?
[15:19] <eroomde> not for sat tracking
[15:19] <eroomde> they'll all use PLLs
[15:19] <eroomde> they'll use KFs for the position loop
[15:20] <eroomde> but not the millisecond to millisecond carrier and code phase tracking loop
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[15:20] <mattbrejza> i suppose if theyre 50 channel rxrs that could get a bit processor intensive
[15:20] <mattbrejza> (cant remember if its actually 50)
[15:21] <eroomde> i'm not really sure what they mean by 50ch anyway
[15:21] <eroomde> it's not like you will ever see that many sats at once, ever
[15:22] <mattbrejza> i thought it ment it can search for 50 at once
[15:22] <mattbrejza> does it have attempt every possible DSSS code until it finds valid ones>
[15:23] <eroomde> ah right
[15:23] <eroomde> though there are only 36
[15:23] <mattbrejza> (i might be wrong)
[15:23] <eroomde> maybe + galileo and glonnas and so on
[15:24] <mattbrejza> well sparkfun have some 50 channel ones, but only seem to do GPS
[15:24] <mattbrejza> is probably more of a marketing thing
[15:24] <mattbrejza> hmm even a 66 channel one
[15:26] <mattbrejza> apparently 59 are planned for 2014 though
[15:26] <mattbrejza> (satelites in the sky)
[15:28] <eroomde> there are lots of ways of doing the search and i can see ways of using up N channels per sat depending on how they do it
[15:28] <eroomde> i.e. looking in different doppler bins
[15:28] <gonzo_> I think the chans include reflections etc. So you can get a few ghost locks
[15:28] <gonzo_> with older 12chan devices, they got easilly confused by reflections
[15:29] <gonzo_> (the ones I tried anyway)
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[15:29] <mattbrejza> time to put a lassen near a large metal object/building and see what happens
[15:30] <HixWork> time to infestigate 808 cameras ;p
[15:30] <HixWork> with a v instead of an f
[15:30] <gonzo_> we used to have the old jupiter ones, and they would get all upset by reflections from the steel clad buildings, even though there was a good sky view
[15:31] <gonzo_> I suspect the largetr number of chans the new RX will handle allows them to differentiate between the real and reflected sigs
[15:32] <gonzo_> (though a good CP antenna helps there, as the reflected sigs have the wriong sense)
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[15:49] <Brace> gonzo_: does a 4chan one come bundled with abuse and pictures of cats?
[15:49] <Brace> badumtish
[15:49] <Brace> thankyew, I'm here all night
[15:49] Action: Brace bows
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[16:00] <x-f> :>
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[16:08] <Babs> ping Willdude123 - I found my copy of Foundation Radio Nowzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz - if you do want it sending across if you haven't already ordered, PM me
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[16:09] <arko> morning
[16:09] <x-f> (sorry, cat)
[16:09] <x-f> morning
[16:09] <arko> the cat has a message for us
[16:10] <x-f> your lucky number today
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[16:13] <eroomde> board sent off
[16:13] <eroomde> hurrah
[16:14] <fsphil> your cat may have sent itself a message from the past
[16:15] <chrisstubbs> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKYQ5ibxslI
[16:15] <arko> oh?
[16:16] <arko> gps board?
[16:16] <eroomde> yus
[16:16] <arko> \o/ woot
[16:16] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/9BK6XKT.png
[16:18] <chrisstubbs> Is that for the raw gps signals?
[16:18] <eroomde> yep
[16:18] <chrisstubbs> cool :)
[16:19] <arko> wow
[16:19] <arko> very clean
[16:20] <arko> what happen to the other chip
[16:20] <arko> ?
[16:20] <eroomde> it's just interfacing to the fpga now
[16:20] <arko> gotcha
[16:20] <eroomde> as i wasn't sure that it would work with the gps chip without a ram buffer
[16:20] <eroomde> so i'm getting the eval board for the gps chip and will breadboard it first
[16:20] <arko> cool
[16:20] <eroomde> and if that works then i'll make it
[16:21] <arko> nice
[16:21] <eroomde> also to fit several side by side on the fpga card they are constrained to 20mm wide, which was too narrow to get it all in with the usb chip :)
[16:21] <arko> hmmm
[16:22] <eroomde> well, as it was anyway
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[16:22] <arko> you need a minimum of two?
[16:22] <eroomde> 3 for attitude
[16:23] <arko> wow
[16:24] <eroomde> i have 4 slots, the test setup will be 3 of these in a slot each and one slot for the IMU
[16:24] <eroomde> but want to do some stuff just with one slot atm
[16:25] <eroomde> higher samples rates and high resolution,to see how good we can get velocity estimates frop each of the sat dopplers
[16:25] <arko> do you have some harness in mind for this?
[16:25] <arko> dont antennas need to be apart?
[16:25] <eroomde> will mount it all to a nice bit of milled aluminium
[16:25] <eroomde> yes they do
[16:25] <eroomde> but the boards are just sma connectors
[16:25] <eroomde> so the antennas can be put wherever
[16:26] <eroomde> provided all the lengths of coax are the same
[16:26] <arko> yeah i was gonna say
[16:26] <arko> prop delay
[16:26] <chrisstubbs> I can imagine a horrific ammount of code will have to go with this :P
[16:26] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/l66hpeujziegjvm/2013-04-30%2017.24.05.jpg
[16:26] <arko> also what about signal loss on the line?
[16:26] <eroomde> it's not too bad - i've built in a boas tee to make it active, and the ants im using have lna ands saw at the ant end
[16:26] <eroomde> bias*
[16:27] <eroomde> that's a (crap cameraphone) pic of the fpga card with the slots along the top edge
[16:27] <eroomde> so one of these http://i.imgur.com/9BK6XKT.png can go into each of those slots. or 3 of them at least
[16:28] <Elijah__> You're building a board to decode GPS signals directly?
[16:29] <eroomde> yes
[16:29] <eroomde> well, i already have
[16:29] <eroomde> this is v2
[16:29] <Elijah__> oh, nice...
[16:31] <arko> TWO CAN PLAY THESE GAME MR ED http://i.imgur.com/07rjXSR.jpg
[16:31] <Elijah__> You do the despreading and decoding of the signal in an FPGA?
[16:32] <eroomde> software atm
[16:32] <arko> fpga just samples and buffers?
[16:33] <eroomde> i'm taking a bayesian approach to tracking the freqs and codes which is quite computational
[16:33] <arko> oh wow this fpga wont break a sweat
[16:34] <eroomde> indeed, fpga AT THE MOMENT just buffering and handling usb
[16:34] <arko> sampling IF_N and IF_P is around 16Mhz right?
[16:34] <eroomde> N and P?
[16:34] <eroomde> I and Q?
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[16:35] <Elijah__> never heard n and p...
[16:36] <arko> mm
[16:36] <arko> isnt it a intermedate frequency with diff signaling?
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[16:37] <arko> or at least thats what i thought
[16:39] <arko> im being stupid nvm
[16:40] <eroomde> heh nice pic arko
[16:40] <eroomde> sexy pencil too
[16:41] <arko> yes it is, it's been through a lot so it's not very clean :P
[16:41] <arko> you're using a SE4110L right?
[16:41] <eroomde> nope
[16:41] <eroomde> max2769
[16:41] <eroomde> nice that you have those PMOD connectors too
[16:41] <eroomde> you can plug one of my boards right in
[16:43] <arko> yep!
[16:43] <eroomde> i suspect one might find its way to you
[16:43] <eroomde> via mr fedex
[16:43] <eroomde> we'll have to wait and see :)
[16:43] <arko> :D
[16:44] <arko> that'd be epic
[16:44] <arko> are you interfacing to this over the baseband outputs?
[16:44] <eroomde> yep
[16:44] <eroomde> I0, I1, Q0, Q1
[16:44] <arko> ok
[16:44] <Elijah__> that spartan dev board looks similar to the one I have...
[16:44] <eroomde> let's start a club
[16:45] <arko> so whats that type of output called?
[16:45] <eroomde> I and Q i guess
[16:45] <eroomde> quadrature
[16:45] <Elijah__> your sampler board takes the GPS to an IF and samples it to digital?
[16:45] <arko> IF
[16:45] <arko> ok
[16:45] <arko> thats intermediate frequency?
[16:46] <eroomde> yep
[16:46] <arko> cool
[16:46] <eroomde> so the output of this is on an IF< not a baseband, sorry was being a bit vague
[16:46] <eroomde> you can se the IF digitally
[16:46] <eroomde> but the default is 4.blah MHz
[16:46] <arko> ah
[16:46] <eroomde> you can make it zero though
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[16:46] <arko> why does this chip have two of these?
[16:47] <eroomde> one for I and one for Q
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[16:48] <arko> hmm
[16:48] <eroomde> so it downconverts twice, both with the same frequency
[16:48] <eroomde> so the IF for both is the same
[16:48] <eroomde> but one mixer uses the local oscillator, and the other mixer uses the local oscillator 90 degrees phase delayed
[16:48] <eroomde> you need to do this to track BPSK signals
[16:49] <eroomde> however it can also output just I, and then you do the I and Q stuff in software
[16:49] <eroomde> that's what i'm doing
[16:49] <eroomde> so far i have just been using 1 bit ADC on I
[16:49] <eroomde> it can do up to 3 bits though
[16:50] <eroomde> and up to about 50MSPS
[16:50] <Elijah__> nice
[16:50] <eroomde> but you can get very good results just with 1 bit and 16msps. quite amazing really
[16:50] <arko> wow
[16:50] <eroomde> but we're going to try and max out the usb link just by cranking up to full speed on one sampling stick
[16:51] <Elijah__> The GPS signal is pretty wide, like 20MHz or something isn't it?
[16:51] <eroomde> just 2mhz
[16:51] <Elijah__> oh
[16:51] <eroomde> well, no less, than that
[16:51] <eroomde> but 2 is a fine window
[16:51] <arko> hmm
[16:51] Nick change: MichaelC1 -> MichaelC
[16:51] <eroomde> the spreading codes are 1023 bits long and are sent once per ms
[16:51] <eroomde> so 1.023MHz chip rate
[16:52] <arko> im confused about one thing here, Q is the 90 deg phase delay of I?
[16:52] <Elijah__> and it's BPSK?
[16:52] <eroomde> yes
[16:52] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[16:52] <arko> ok
[16:52] <arko> that makes sense now
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[16:52] <arko> http://www.holmea.demon.co.uk/GPS/Main.htm
[16:52] <arko> he did the same thing right?
[16:52] <arko> took in just I
[16:52] <eroomde> so if you want to measure the amount of sininess at a certain freq, you need an I sampled version of it and a Q sampled version of it
[16:52] <eroomde> and take the magnitude of the two responses
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[16:53] <eroomde> just like the fourier transform
[16:53] <eroomde> signal_t * e^iwetc etc
[16:53] <eroomde> where e^blah is from euler's formula cos + isin
[16:53] <Elijah__> yeah
[16:54] <arko> ah
[16:54] <Elijah__> but all the satellites are transmitting on the same freq right...
[16:54] <arko> how do you gauge the sininess from the result of the FTT?
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[16:54] <eroomde> because if you just see how well the samples signal correlates with one sin wave, your comparison sin wave might accidently be 90 degrees out of phase with the sin wave burried in the adc samples
[16:54] <arko> computationally
[16:54] <eroomde> so you won;t pick it up as the correlation score is zero
[16:54] <Elijah__> when you decode the BPSK why don't they interfear with each other
[16:55] <eroomde> whereas with the cos wave, being 90 degrees out of phase, you'll get a strong correlation score
[16:55] <arko> WOAH
[16:55] <arko> thats cool
[16:55] <eroomde> that's all I and Q is
[16:56] <arko> thats a pretty robust design
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[16:56] <eroomde> lets you find a sinusoid regardless of its phase
[16:56] Action: jonsowman just did a sigproc exam and never wants to hear of it again
[16:57] <eroomde> lucky you
[16:57] <arko> haha
[16:57] <jonsowman> was not easy
[16:57] <jonsowman> :|
[16:57] <arko> any more exams left?
[16:57] <eroomde> Elijah__: they don't intefere because they're spread with codes that all have zero correlation with any of the other codes
[16:57] <jonsowman> arko: two
[16:57] <arko> good luck dude
[16:57] <jonsowman> :(
[16:57] <jonsowman> thank you
[16:59] <arko> man, i have such a hardtime understanding this stuff over irc
[16:59] <arko> whiteboards work wonders
[16:59] <eroomde> yeah
[16:59] <jonsowman> true
[16:59] <eroomde> i know what you mean
[17:00] <eroomde> i was (probably still will but am not good at pulling finger out except for work work) do a vidcast explaining how to do an rtty decoder
[17:00] <eroomde> which would cover stuff like I and Q
[17:00] <Elijah__> really cool project eroomde
[17:00] <arko> DO IT
[17:00] <arko> i would watch
[17:00] <Elijah__> yeah
[17:00] <eroomde> i also think i could explain GPS at the ukhas conf
[17:01] <eroomde> by writing a whole decoder in ipython notebook as i went along in the talk
[17:01] <arko> :O
[17:01] <arko> you are doing this now
[17:01] <eroomde> it's actually not mega complicated
[17:01] <arko> no turning back
[17:01] <jonsowman> yeah do it
[17:01] <eroomde> it might be like 2 hrs tho. it's a bit more than 1 hrs work. but if thee's 2 or 3 parallel afternoon workshoppy sessions, i'd happily do one
[17:01] <jonsowman> yeah
[17:01] <chrisstubbs> I started reading http://www.u-blox.com/images/downloads/Product_Docs/GPS_Compendium%28GPS-X-02007%29.pdf today. Very nice explanations
[17:02] <arko> dude, im down
[17:02] <arko> if you hold it, i will be there
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[17:03] <eroomde> kk
[17:03] <arko> workshop ftw
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[17:04] <arko> if one of these boards happens to find it's way to me, let me know what to buy from digikey
[17:04] <eroomde> it would find its way to you populated
[17:06] <arko> \o/ time saving bonus
[17:06] <eroomde> well there's qfn parts
[17:06] <arko> even though i enjoy smd soldering
[17:06] <eroomde> you'd need a stencil
[17:06] <eroomde> etc etc
[17:06] <arko> nah
[17:07] <arko> i got a hot plate
[17:07] <arko> ;)
[17:07] <arko> and a heatgun if needed
[17:07] <arko> you saw the stuff we had at the space
[17:07] <eroomde> indeed
[17:07] <arko> we did bga
[17:07] <eroomde> but you'd still need a stencil!
[17:08] <arko> yeah
[17:08] <eroomde> having too much or inaccurate paste under these tiny pitch QFN parts is a realy pain
[17:08] <arko> yeah
[17:08] <eroomde> lots of hot air reework and solder braid
[17:08] <arko> one thing i figured out was to tin the pans
[17:08] <arko> pands*
[17:08] <arko> pads*
[17:08] <eroomde> ah that's a good idea actually
[17:08] <arko> on both the component and board
[17:08] <eroomde> so apply the solder to the pads then reflow like that
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[17:08] <arko> then with tweezers align
[17:08] <arko> then heat
[17:08] <eroomde> that's very neat
[17:09] <arko> works like a charm
[17:09] <arko> it's ghetto
[17:09] <arko> and you need to watch the heat on the chip when you tin it
[17:09] <arko> but with some flux it works fine
[17:09] <eroomde> can imagine
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[17:09] <arko> but yeah, stencil is best
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[17:09] <arko> i'd take that any day
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[17:11] <arko> man, this fpga lab lecture is boring
[17:11] <arko> probably because i know the stuff already but still
[17:11] <eroomde> i could do with attending it
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[17:12] <arko> come on over
[17:12] <arko> i have cookies now, things just got better
[17:12] <eroomde> first i must cycle home
[17:12] <eroomde> on which note, gd eve
[17:12] <arko> laterz
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[17:14] <arko> chrisstubbs: thats an awesome pdf
[17:15] <chrisstubbs> arko yeah made great reading at work today :)
[17:15] <chrisstubbs> it looked technical so nobody oicked up on me spending half a day reading it lol
[17:15] <Elijah__> lol
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[17:16] <chrisstubbs> all quite interesting, but my concentration started drifting when i got the the maths of the geoid bit
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[17:17] <chrisstubbs> and coordinate systems
[17:17] <Babs> "We could solve the problem of local clock synchronization by outfitting our car with an exact atomic clock, but this would probably exceed our budget"
[17:17] <chrisstubbs> haha
[17:17] <Babs> *probably*
[17:18] <chrisstubbs> I have to use someone elses account at work to access the network drives, but the PC's lock after 5 mins or so.
[17:18] <Babs> In the words of Lloyd Christmas "So you're saying there's a chance"
[17:19] <chrisstubbs> I had to throw together a crude excel macro that moves the mouse a pixel every few mins
[17:19] <arko> haha
[17:20] <Elijah__> didn't know you could do that with excel
[17:20] <Elijah__> we used a thing called 'mouse jiggler' here
[17:20] <arko> "that looks complicated, he must be busy, lets not bother him"
[17:20] <Elijah__> does the same thing but is a .net utility
[17:20] <chrisstubbs> they get pissy about using anything like that :(
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[17:21] <chrisstubbs> mcafee threw a shit fit when i tried to copy the .xls onto a memory stick
[17:21] <chrisstubbs> Elijah__, you can edit macros in VBA (the worst kind of VB)
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[17:24] <chrisstubbs> ed is brave for trying to do this GPS thing
[17:24] <chrisstubbs> any idea how successful his prototype was?
[17:26] <Elijah__> yeah, I guess I didn't realize it had access to all the visual basic calls though
[17:27] <Elijah__> I've seen that demon.co.uk page on the home made GPS before, someone else has apparently done somthing similar successfully
[17:27] <Randomskk> I think a fair number of people have at some point
[17:27] <Randomskk> it's challenging but not impossible, so I think it attracts a lot of people
[17:27] <Elijah__> pretty cool really, you could get around the altitude/speed limit most commercial recievers have this way :-)
[17:28] <Randomskk> doing it very reliably on a few mA in real time on an embedded platform is much harder - modern ubloxes are amazing
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[17:28] <Elijah__> That was the takeaway I took from reading that page.... that a fingernail-sized chip that can decode GPS is a miracle
[17:28] <Elijah__> lol
[17:29] <Randomskk> I've seen it done with those tv sdr dongles too iirc
[17:29] <Randomskk> they make getting the radio samples into a PC very very easy
[17:29] <Randomskk> and from there it's all doing clever maths really
[17:30] <Elijah__> really, I'm surprised they have the sensitivity
[17:30] <Elijah__> although I guess an antenna with LNA would help with that
[17:31] <craag> http://www.gnss-sdr.org/documentation/gnss-sdr-operation-realtek-rtl2832u-usb-dongle-dvb-t-receiver
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[17:31] <arko> wow
[17:31] <Randomskk> http://michelebavaro.blogspot.it/2012/04/spring-news-in-gnss-and-sdr-domain.html
[17:32] <arko> i didnt even think that could happen
[17:32] <arko> obviously wouldn't be possible without an LNA
[17:32] <chrisstubbs> oh btw has anyone used the NEO-6 in USB mode?
[17:32] <arko> but i thought the sample rate on those is too low
[17:32] <Randomskk> think so yea
[17:33] <Randomskk> arko: what? I don't think it needs an LNA
[17:33] <Randomskk> rate is fine, it captures like 20MHz chunks of spectrum
[17:33] <Randomskk> you only need say 5MHz
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[17:33] <Randomskk> br cookin
[17:34] <arko> ok im reading this
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[17:34] <arko> skimming was a bad idea
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[17:39] <Randomskk> talking of signal processing
[17:39] <Randomskk> finally done with signal processing
[17:39] <Randomskk> yay
[17:39] <Randomskk> https://www.dropbox.com/s/a33ztcae9xijajf/4f7.pdf
[17:40] <Randomskk> worst module by far
[17:40] <Randomskk> if you ever want to derive a kalman filter, don't even think of doing it that way
[17:40] <Randomskk> god it's awful
[17:44] <chrisstubbs> Wiener Filter made me laugh
[17:44] <jonsowman> haha
[17:44] <jonsowman> same
[17:44] <chrisstubbs> Need to learn this crazy square bracket maths
[17:44] <chrisstubbs> its everywhere
[17:45] <Randomskk> matricies? :P
[17:45] <jonsowman> oh i see
[17:45] <jonsowman> lol
[17:45] <jonsowman> i was wondering
[17:45] <Randomskk> try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_algebra
[17:45] <Randomskk> that's _definitely_ the best page to start with
[17:45] <jonsowman> lol
[17:45] <Randomskk> it gets right in there with vector spaces and axioms and shiz
[17:45] <jonsowman> https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_algebra
[17:45] <arko> how have you not had linear algebra yet!?
[17:45] <jonsowman> there you go
[17:45] <chrisstubbs> the diagram makes me want to close the page
[17:45] <arko> hahah
[17:45] <arko> simple wiki
[17:46] <Randomskk> the links at the bottom of wikipedia have a variety of perhaps better options
[17:46] <Randomskk> http://linear.ups.edu/index.html
[17:46] <Randomskk> really it just comes down to "matricies are like big grids of numbers so you can work with lots of equations all at once"
[17:46] <arko> yeah
[17:46] <Randomskk> then "now here are fifty magic tricks, memorise them all and you can solve some toy problems"
[17:46] <jonsowman> now differentiate wrt this vector and cry
[17:47] <arko> "and if you do, we all get ice cream"
[17:47] <Randomskk> like "oh yea if you had d(h'uh)/dh that's totally 2h'u"
[17:47] <arko> man
[17:47] <arko> equivalent statements
[17:47] <chrisstubbs> I got asked to leave my A-Level maths class becuase the teacher said i had no hope in hell of passing
[17:47] <arko> we were forced to memorize those
[17:47] <Randomskk> that seems a bit mean
[17:47] <arko> it was horrible
[17:48] <arko> chrisstubbs: teachers like that make me sick
[17:48] <Randomskk> I meant chrisstubbs but I'm sure memorising some linalg identities was tough too :P
[17:48] <chrisstubbs> she was a straight A* student teacher, cant have any people just after a pass like me
[17:48] <Randomskk> I got put in set 4 out of 5 for maths at GCSE
[17:48] <Randomskk> only kid in my set not taking foundation GCSE
[17:48] <arko> pshh
[17:48] <Randomskk> (where 5 is the worst)
[17:49] <chrisstubbs> I was set 2 and came out with an A for GCSE after weeks of cramming
[17:49] <Randomskk> that said if they saw my performance in today's exam they'd probably feel justified, ugh
[17:49] <jonsowman> can't've been that bad Randomskk
[17:49] <Randomskk> no not "foundation GCSE" bad I guess
[17:49] <arko> finally the pdf finished downloading
[17:49] <chrisstubbs> lol
[17:50] <arko> i scroll, run across Wiener Filter
[17:50] <arko> promised myself to not laugh
[17:50] <arko> i did
[17:50] <jonsowman> pronounced veener, i hasten to add
[17:51] <Randomskk> I implemented one at work for a thing
[17:51] <Randomskk> and everyone was like "ha ha weener"
[17:51] <arko> yikes
[17:51] <arko> HAHHa
[17:52] <arko> wow man
[17:52] <arko> what was this for?
[17:52] <Randomskk> my "digital filters and spectrum estimation" module
[17:52] <arko> this is crazy
[17:52] <Randomskk> the exam was this afternoon
[17:52] <Randomskk> it was brutal
[17:52] <arko> good god
[17:52] <jonsowman> my notes weren't as.. dense
[17:53] <mattbrejza> the notes start off alright
[17:53] <arko> christ
[17:53] <Randomskk> robust and nonlinear control: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9cf7iwmdjem7vxx/4f2.pdf
[17:53] <Randomskk> signal detection and estimation: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yzvd4jxz5xll2cc/4f6.pdf
[17:53] <Randomskk> computer vision and robotics (the robotics part is a lie): https://www.dropbox.com/s/bo1i5fpogwmapz1/4f12.pdf
[17:53] <jonsowman> i should scan mine
[17:54] <Randomskk> nonlinear control is fun because it has things like "lipschitz continuity" and "lyanpunov's indirect method"
[17:54] <arko> im totally holding on to these
[17:54] <arko> im taking that class next quarter
[17:54] <Randomskk> these are somewhat condensed notes-on-notes from my actual lecture notes, I should point out
[17:54] <jonsowman> arko: for the nonlinear stuff?
[17:54] <jonsowman> the actual lecture notes are excellent
[17:55] <Randomskk> http://www-control.eng.cam.ac.uk/jmm/4f3/slides1.pdf
[17:55] <arko> im taking signal processing
[17:55] <Randomskk> hmm
[17:55] <jonsowman> /4f3
[17:55] <Randomskk> http://www-control.eng.cam.ac.uk/Homepage/officialweb.php?id=1
[17:55] <jonsowman> lol
[17:55] <Randomskk> oh right
[17:55] <Randomskk> yea
[17:55] <Randomskk> well feel free to chat
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[17:55] <Randomskk> maybe by next quarter I'll have gotten over the mental scarring from these exams
[17:55] <arko> maybe im not cambridge material
[17:55] <arko> this is some really dense stuff
[17:56] <Randomskk> my notes are dense by necessity
[17:56] <Randomskk> it was 16 lectures worth of stuff
[17:56] <jonsowman> arko: have a look over slides1.pdf ^
[17:56] <arko> i am
[17:56] <Randomskk> though if you've not done any control before that might be entertaining
[17:57] <Randomskk> the signal processing course is at http://www-sigproc.eng.cam.ac.uk/~sss40/teaching.htm
[17:57] <jonsowman> yeah some idea of your control background, if any, might be useful
[17:57] <Randomskk> which has the notes for adaptive filtering and for spectrum estimation
[17:57] <Randomskk> for instance, here's how you derive the kalman filter from first principles
[17:57] <arko> yeah oddly enough
[17:57] <Randomskk> http://www-sigproc.eng.cam.ac.uk/~sss40/4f7material/kalmanLec.pdf
[17:58] <arko> this is very similar to the model i used for the self balance bot i made
[17:58] <jonsowman> "This model is too simple though"
[17:58] <jonsowman> aargh
[17:58] <Randomskk> jonsowman: at least kalman filtering derivations didn't come up today!
[17:58] <jonsowman> true
[17:58] <jonsowman> that would've been bad
[17:58] <Randomskk> well not much worse
[17:58] <Randomskk> D:
[17:58] <Randomskk> brb attending to dinner
[17:58] <jonsowman> can't've been that bad
[17:59] <arko> if you guys dont mind me asking, how old are you?
[17:59] <jonsowman> 22
[17:59] <arko> ok cool
[17:59] <arko> 23
[18:00] <arko> man i feel stupid
[18:00] <jonsowman> it is difficult, but I'm sure you're more than capable of understanding it
[18:00] <jonsowman> it does look awful if you just glance through the notes
[18:00] <jonsowman> but when it's taught (especially that lecturer) it all makes a lot more sense
[18:01] <arko> :)
[18:01] <arko> good prof takes students a long way
[18:01] <jonsowman> absolutely
[18:02] <jonsowman> difficult but very interesting and useful module
[18:02] <jonsowman> goes for all of them really
[18:06] <arko> yeah
[18:06] Action: arko waits to demo his program so he can get lunch
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[18:17] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:18] <chrisstubbs> evening lunar
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[18:29] <arko> i wish this fpga board had a SID :(
[18:29] <arko> i want to do chiptunes
[18:29] <arko> to pass time
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[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> hi chrisstubbs and arko
[18:48] <chrisstubbs> How's it hanging?
[18:49] <chrisstubbs> DPD were supposed to deliver my new server today, so much for 24hr delivery :(
[18:49] <arko> \o/ finished demo, off to lunch
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> OK, thanks and with you?
[18:50] <chrisstubbs> whoop
[18:51] <chrisstubbs> not too bad apart from that
[18:51] <chrisstubbs> was looking forward to a evening playing with it :P
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:52] Nick change: zarya_ -> zarya
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> yellow sky http://s.gullipics.com/image/h/b/r/5yv9ce-kpjfzc-sxth/IMG0054.jpeg
[18:54] <chrisstubbs> brb dinnertime
[19:09] <fsphil> arko: you done anything with the SID? I've not done much beyond randomly poking values into it to make weird noises
[19:10] <eroomde_> heh i am reading your 4f2 notes Randomskk
[19:10] <eroomde_> that really takes me back
[19:10] <eroomde_> although equally i have no memory of some of it
[19:11] <eroomde_> i remember things like singular value decomposition being explained as an asside in about 2 lines of linear algebra, before ploughing on with them
[19:11] <eroomde_> that was a tough tough course
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[19:17] <SP9UOB_Tom> evening all
[19:18] <SP9UOB_Tom> can somebody clear the map, and put my tommorows flight on the map ?
[19:20] <Randomskk> eroomde_: haha it really was
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[19:26] <arko> fsphil: not really, just super basic noises
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[19:33] <eroomde_> i'm re-reading sumeets notes you linked to
[19:33] <eroomde_> i actually get this so much more this time round
[19:33] <eroomde_> just by virtue of being interested in it ansd having written a few now
[19:33] <eroomde_> the derivation of the KF, i mean
[19:34] <eroomde_> really should have been more concentious about studying this stuff at the time
[19:37] <arko> Sometimes i think i focus more when im working on something requiring it
[19:37] <eroomde_> that's true for all x, for me
[19:38] <daveake> I always find it much easier to learn something that I happen to need at the time
[19:38] <arko> I learned kf on my own for the quadrotor code and when i was done i did the udacity course and relearned kf.. but it toally reenforced
[19:39] <arko> Thrun is awesome
[19:39] Action: Laurenceb_ is a permanoob
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> im such a n00b... today i rederived GLS from first principles :(
[19:40] <eroomde_> the thrun explanation of kalman filters is perfect, from the pov of actually explaining what they're doing
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> I could have just used a book to look up what i wanted...
[19:40] <SpeedEvil> GLS?
[19:40] <eroomde_> but he doesn;t even touch actually deriving the kalman filter
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> generalised least squares
[19:40] <SpeedEvil> ah
[19:40] <arko> Eroomde yah
[19:41] <arko> Thats still a mystery to me
[19:41] <eroomde_> but that's just algebra really
[19:41] <Laurenceb_> you can derive it using vectors in 3D..
[19:41] <arko> I get it
[19:41] <Laurenceb_> or just copy from a book like a normal person
[19:41] <SpeedEvil> doing it from first principles means that you will remember how to do it for at least an extra week vs copying.
[19:41] <eroomde_> it's sort of crunching the linear algebra for minimising the cost function in some problem you set up
[19:41] <Laurenceb_> true :D
[19:42] <arko> Oh
[19:42] <eroomde_> arko: http://www-sigproc.eng.cam.ac.uk/~sss40/4f7material/kalmanLec.pdf
[19:42] <eroomde_> tho, these are sumeet's notes and sumeet could think in maths
[19:42] Action: Laurenceb_ is trying to fit prob density functions for photon path length through scattering materials to spectrometer data
[19:43] <arko> You read my mind
[19:43] Action: Laurenceb_ has been attempting this for several weeks...
[19:43] <arko> Was gonna ask for docs explaining
[19:43] <eroomde_> it just takes a bit of time to figure out what's he's actually saying in english
[19:44] <eroomde_> E (v(n)v(l)) =
[19:44] <eroomde_> 2
[19:44] <eroomde_> v
[19:44] <eroomde_> that didn;t copy properly at all
[19:44] <arko> Lol
[19:45] <eroomde_> well, instead of saying 'uncorrelated white noise' he'll say E[v(n)v(l)] = sigma_v^2 delta_{n,l}
[19:45] <eroomde_> where delta_{n,l} = 0 for n != l
[19:46] <arko> Oh fun
[19:46] <eroomde_> i.e, a sample of the noise at one time (n) is not correlated with a sample of the noise at another time (l) and so the noise power is multiplied by zero for samples of the noise at two different times
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[19:46] <arko> Right
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[19:46] <eroomde_> it's just a faffy way of writing something obvious, which is that white noise as zero autocorrelation at any shifts other than zero
[19:47] <eroomde_> bit like a gps spreading code
[19:47] <eroomde_> you sort of train yourself to read it but at first it seems very intimidating
[19:48] <cuddykid> sounds like my econometrics
[19:48] <arko> Cool, throwing that in my read folder
[19:48] <arko> :)
[19:48] Nick change: MoALTz_ -> MoALTz
[19:51] <eroomde_> economis is terrible
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[19:51] <eroomde_> they fling loads of stuff at you and everything is X's principle where X is the name of a dead guy
[19:51] <eroomde_> and when you actually dig in it's just the most trivial concepts
[19:52] <eroomde_> but just all dressed up
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[19:57] <cuddykid> I agree eroomde_
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[19:58] <cuddykid> the only 1/2 useful/relevant in real world bit is econometrics
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[19:58] <cuddykid> the rest is just bull
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[19:58] <SP9UOB_Tom> x-f: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a5a82aaa992440479981689a611008bf20e405dc polish Your antenna for tommorow :-)
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[20:00] <eroomde_> i remeber in an organisation behaviour lecture (again mandatory) the poor gil over from the business school to lecture put up a slide with something like:
[20:01] <eroomde_> productivity = (self_actualisation * financial_motivation)/(working_hours*beurocratic_overhead)
[20:01] <eroomde_> literally, with mathematical notation and everything
[20:02] <eroomde_> I nearly walked out
[20:02] <eroomde_> There's epistemic tomfoolery and there's taking the fucking piss
[20:02] <daveake> you obviously needed more self_actualisation
[20:03] <eroomde_> i needed a drinkj
[20:03] <daveake> :)
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[20:05] <eroomde_> /rant
[20:05] <eroomde_> it's may day tomorrow. lots of people out tonight in oxford
[20:05] <eroomde_> it seems to be a bit of a thing here
[20:07] <x-f> SP9UOB_Tom, thanks, but i will have to wait for the flights on 4th May, this one will stay below my horizon
[20:08] <Laurenceb_> eroomde_: bridge jump
[20:08] <eroomde_> i won't be no
[20:09] <Laurenceb_> lol
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[20:11] <daveake> Talking of may, eroomde_, I thought you might be interested in http://t.co/RVpRvZRPQ1
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[20:12] <arko> I need a drink too :/
[20:13] <eroomde_> nice
[20:13] <eroomde_> very nice
[20:13] <eroomde_> wonder if there are still tickets
[20:14] <daveake> There were 25 mins ago when he tweeted thus
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> earlier I read about the strangest thing
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Headroom_broadcast_signal_intrusion_incident
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[20:19] <Laurenceb_> first confirmed case of trolling
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> interesting
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> in 1987 Bill Brown also flew the first american HAB
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> *amateur HAB
[20:20] <Laurenceb_> coincidence?!
[20:21] <Laurenceb_> i think not
[20:21] <Laurenceb_> i blame the extra shooter from the grassy knoll
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> no, he was living in New Hampshire I think
[20:22] <griffonbot> Received email: mclane "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement PYSY5 - 4.5.2013"
[20:22] <Laurenceb_> i give up
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> he actually cut into Dr. Who
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> not good
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> he = that guy in Chicago
[20:24] <eroomde_> no dr who
[20:24] <chrisstubbs> shame they dont do that to the new dr who
[20:24] <eroomde_> the humanity
[20:24] <chrisstubbs> the effects would probably be better
[20:25] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hbw86UWyDE
[20:25] <Laurenceb_> ^ me talking to Lunar
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> well it had to be a guy with technical experience
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> someone knowing the station frequencies
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[20:33] <SP9UOB_Tom> x-f: there is chance to float :-)
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[20:34] <x-f> SP9UOB_Tom, fingers crossed :)
[20:34] <S_Mark> Hello Lunar
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> how are you today?
[20:36] <S_Mark> Good thank you, you?
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> quite OK, thanks
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> we are just puzzling about this thing
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Headroom_broadcast_signal_intrusion_incident
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[21:40] <domlin> evening all
[21:41] <fsphil> yo
[21:45] <jonsowman> evening
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[22:42] <arko> Upu: around?
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[23:05] <arko> im looking everywhere to find a pcb house that will make pink pcbs
[23:05] <arko> it's next to impossible
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[23:08] <nigelvh> I haven't heard of pink. I've seen red.
[23:09] <arko> yeah same here
[23:09] <nigelvh> Why do you need pink?
[23:09] <arko> because it would be bad ass
[23:09] <arko> pink pcbs
[23:09] <arko> im on the phone with a production house right now trying to see if they will blend the white and red
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[23:09] <arko> :P
[23:09] <nigelvh> And how much is that going to cost you?
[23:11] <arko> arm and a leg
[23:11] <arko> http://www.mos-electronic.com/en/index.htm
[23:11] <arko> theres those peeps
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[23:12] <arko> they said no
[23:12] <arko> :(
[23:12] <arko> the owner is a good friend of mine, was wondering if i could pull something off
[23:12] <arko> unsuccessful
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[23:14] <nigelvh> Damn, unrelated to your PCB search, the price for the Radiometrix HX1 has jumped from $28 last year to $68 this year.
[23:14] <nigelvh> That's ludicrous.
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[23:28] <nigelvh> At least, that's what the US distributor is charging.
[23:28] <nigelvh> Radiometrix is listing them at about $35
[23:29] <nigelvh> I could buy one shipped from the UK for less than I could buy it without shipping from the US distributor.
[23:31] <nigelvh> And Upu's store is even cheaper.
[23:31] <nigelvh> Damn...
[23:32] <arko> ok found a place
[23:32] <arko> $87 for 5
[23:32] <arko> sooo im not doing that
[23:32] <nigelvh> That's not terrible
[23:33] <nigelvh> $87 for the lot, or each?
[23:35] <nigelvh> For the lot is pretty reasonable, each is a bit expensive.
[23:35] <arko> all of them
[23:35] <arko> pretty cheap really
[23:35] <nigelvh> Yeah, that's a pretty good price
[23:35] <arko> not really*
[23:35] <arko> heh
[23:35] <arko> well
[23:36] <arko> for a prototype run
[23:36] <nigelvh> Depending on the size of your boards.
[23:36] <arko> 2x1
[23:36] <arko> very small
[23:36] <nigelvh> It's not a hobbyist price, no, but for a manufacturing price, that's what I'd expect.
[23:37] <nigelvh> Hobbyists can manage cheaper because they combine orders.
[23:37] <nigelvh> You want a single order from a fab house, that's in the range I've been used to seeing.
[23:37] <arko> oh yeah
[23:37] <arko> im lookin for hobbist price ;)
[23:37] <arko> goal was to make this all for $100
[23:37] <arko> including helium balloon etc
[23:37] <nigelvh> I'm not sure you'll find hobbyist price and pink in the same deal.
[23:38] <nigelvh> oshpark does purple and has good prices. Other places do black or green or whatnot. But pink is pretty special.
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[00:00] --- Wed May 1 2013