highaltitude.log.20130427

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[00:28] <Dan-K2VOL> any habhub guys still awake?
[00:29] <Darkside> dont think so
[00:29] <Darkside> hey Dan-K2VOL
[00:29] <Dan-K2VOL> Hey Darkside
[00:29] <Dan-K2VOL> what are you up to these days
[00:29] <Darkside> i didn't have enough string to try making a cage for the foil balloon last time
[00:30] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe
[00:30] <Darkside> been starting playing with picos
[00:30] <Darkside> it ruptured at the neck
[00:30] <Dan-K2VOL> they are pretty nifty
[00:30] <Darkside> small tear, descended at 1m/s
[00:31] <Dan-K2VOL> interesting
[00:33] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm debating whether or not to buy a big old mylar wheel sealer that was used to make superpressure balloons in the 60s
[00:34] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
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[01:25] <flyingtoaster0> hello
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[02:06] <heathkid> "superpressure balloons"???
[02:14] <Dan-K2VOL> sup heathkid
[02:18] <heathkid> hey there Dan-K2VOL
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[02:18] <heathkid> what's a "superpressure balloon"?
[02:19] <Dan-K2VOL> it's a sealed balloon that doesn't change in size
[02:19] <Dan-K2VOL> constant-altitude
[02:19] <Dan-K2VOL> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superpressure_balloon
[02:20] <Dan-K2VOL> long duration flight, but must be extremely strong, as it becomes pressurized for the life of the balloon
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[02:24] <nigelvh> exit
[02:24] <flyingtoaster0> hi! I'm new to high altitude ballooning and, i just had a few questions before I really get started
[02:24] <nigelvh> whoops.
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[02:24] <Dan-K2VOL> hi flyingtoaster0
[02:24] <Darkside> flyingtoaster0: this is the place to ask
[02:25] <flyingtoaster0> great :)
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[02:25] <flyingtoaster0> I read up on the hab wiki about sending telemetry down and everything, and it seems as though that shouldn't be a big problem. but one thing I was a little confused about was actually tracking it
[02:25] <Dan-K2VOL> where are you located flying
[02:26] <flyingtoaster0> heheh, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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[02:26] <Darkside> flyingtoaster0: if you use dl-fldigi on the ground, with a radio, the position data is automatically uploaded and shown on spacenear.us/tracker/
[02:26] <flyingtoaster0> right, right
[02:26] <Dan-K2VOL> though you might likely be best off just using APRS for a first flight, as otherwise there's not many people normally in NA set to receive the UKHAS data
[02:26] <Darkside> you will, of course, need a radio
[02:27] <flyingtoaster0> right, i was thinking of using an SDR USB dongle
[02:27] <Darkside> yeah, that can work
[02:27] <Darkside> though we'd recommend putting a HABAmp in front of it
[02:27] <Darkside> as the RTLSDR's aren't the best receivers
[02:27] <flyingtoaster0> and sorry, what's ARPS?
[02:27] <flyingtoaster0> yeah, that's somewhat what i thought^
[02:27] <Darkside> APRS - amateur packet reporting system
[02:28] <Darkside> you need an amateur radio licence for that
[02:28] <flyingtoaster0> and I'm assuming that HABAmp simply helps increase the gain from whatever antenna i'm using?
[02:29] <Darkside> and filters out signals from outside the band
[02:29] <flyingtoaster0> ahhh
[02:31] <flyingtoaster0> hmm, ARPS, eh? so my understanding is that it's a specifically formatted string at a specific frequency?
[02:32] <Dan-K2VOL> It's a common protocol with distributed receivers already in place
[02:32] <Dan-K2VOL> that automatically pass data to the web
[02:32] <flyingtoaster0> oh cool!
[02:32] <Darkside> flyingtoaster0: but you will need an amateur radio licence..
[02:32] <Dan-K2VOL> similar to the HABHUB / DL-FLDIGI, but older and extremely rigid in the radio and format requirements
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[02:33] <flyingtoaster0> ahhh gotcha
[02:33] <Dan-K2VOL> and the transmitter will likely cost more
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[02:33] <flyingtoaster0> do you mean I would need a licence to transmit it?
[02:33] <Dan-K2VOL> the DL-FLDIGI is probably cheapest to start with
[02:33] <Dan-K2VOL> yes
[02:33] <flyingtoaster0> hmmm
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[02:33] <flyingtoaster0> yeah DL-FLDIGI seemed like the most immediately afforable option
[02:34] <Dan-K2VOL> but there aren't regular listeners in north america for DL-FLDIGI
[02:34] <flyingtoaster0> yeah, that's what it seemed like :/
[02:34] <nigelvh> Yes, in NA, you use APRS or you're on your own.
[02:34] <nigelvh> Essentially...
[02:34] <flyingtoaster0> well i mean, that being said, i looked into antennae, and found that most people use a yagi?
[02:34] <Darkside> you only need a yagi of you're stationary
[02:34] <Darkside> if*
[02:35] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah you won't if you chase it
[02:35] <Darkside> if you're chasing it, a simple 1/4 wavelength monopole antenna (on a mag-mount) works wonders
[02:35] <flyingtoaster0> oh really?
[02:35] <flyingtoaster0> because that's kind of my primary concern: actually tracking it and being able to get pictures from it
[02:36] <nigelvh> If it's your first time, I'd recommend just doing a cheap onboard camera and hoping to pick it up afterward.
[02:36] <nigelvh> Doing pictures over the radio gets much more complicated.
[02:36] <flyingtoaster0> ahh, i suppose that's true
[02:36] <flyingtoaster0> i was also considering throwing an old phone in there as backup telemetry
[02:37] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah, start flying simple to get logistical and rules experience
[02:37] <flyingtoaster0> right, right. makes sense
[02:37] <nigelvh> Phone isn't going to have any sort of service above a few thousand feet.
[02:37] <flyingtoaster0> right
[02:37] <nigelvh> So the gains may be limited, and consider that it's entirely likely you may lose it.
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[02:38] <flyingtoaster0> the gains might be limited?
[02:38] <TonioElGringo> wow, lot of people here
[02:38] <Dan-K2VOL> hello Tonio
[02:38] <TonioElGringo> hi
[02:38] <nigelvh> The gains of using a phone would be limited just because the range is limited.
[02:38] <flyingtoaster0> ohhhh, right, right
[02:39] <nigelvh> If it's a phone you are willing to lose, a phone could make a potentially good camera
[02:39] <flyingtoaster0> hmm, that's actually true
[02:40] <nigelvh> As well as potential help in finding it. Potentially.
[02:40] <Dan-K2VOL> however, the temperature may be a problem for a phone, depending on how well you seal your box
[02:40] <flyingtoaster0> i did see an app specifically for this purpose. ie: auto pictures, auto texting coordinates
[02:40] <flyingtoaster0> right
[02:41] <Dan-K2VOL> Likely better to just let it record locally and use FindMyiPhone or something after it lands to save battery
[02:41] <flyingtoaster0> ahh, true
[02:42] <nigelvh> Are you in the US?
[02:42] <flyingtoaster0> Canada
[02:42] <nigelvh> Is ham radio allowed in the air? As well as do you have a ham license?
[02:43] <Dan-K2VOL> it is nigelvh, but he doesn't
[02:43] <nigelvh> Then thats what i would recommend
[02:43] <nigelvh> Get your ham license
[02:43] <flyingtoaster0> does using a NTX2 require a ham license?
[02:44] <Dan-K2VOL> depends on how much power you use to transmit with
[02:44] <nigelvh> And the frequency
[02:45] <flyingtoaster0> ohh? sorry, the transmitting power: is that baud?
[02:45] <nigelvh> No, baud rate and transmitting power are different.
[02:45] <Dan-K2VOL> no, that would be milliwatts or dB
[02:45] <Darkside> dBm
[02:45] <Dan-K2VOL> thanks
[02:45] <Darkside> Dan-K2VOL: >_>
[02:45] <flyingtoaster0> ahhhh
[02:46] <flyingtoaster0> Darkside: earlier, you mentionned a "1/4 wavelength monopole antenna". what did you mean by 1/4 wavelength?
[02:46] <flyingtoaster0> like 1/4 wavelength of what exactly?
[02:46] <Darkside> the frequency in use
[02:47] <Darkside> so if you're on 434.650MHz, the wavelength (in metreS) is 300/f
[02:47] <Darkside> so the wavelength of a 434.650MHz signal is 0.69m
[02:47] <Darkside> 1/4 of that is 17.25cm
[02:47] <nigelvh> Commonly known as the 70cm band.
[02:48] <Darkside> now, through some annoying antenna theory, the actual length of a 1/4 wave antenna should be 0.235*wavelength
[02:48] <Dan-K2VOL> :-)
[02:48] <flyingtoaster0> heheh:)
[02:48] <Darkside> so the length should be more like 16.2cm
[02:48] <flyingtoaster0> why would it need to be 1/4 wavelength?
[02:48] <flyingtoaster0> (sorry, no antenna theory here :( )
[02:48] <Darkside> because a 1/4 wavelength bit of metal, positioned above a ground plane, presents a good impedance match to 50 ohms
[02:49] <nigelvh> 1/4 wavelength is a common length that works well.
[02:49] <Darkside> which is the common characteristic impedance used in modern day radio systems
[02:49] <flyingtoaster0> ahhhhh gotcha
[02:49] <Darkside> or as nigelvh said - 'it works well'
[02:50] <flyingtoaster0> hmm, interesting. In regards to yagi antennae: how..."directly" must they be pointing at the payload?
[02:50] <Darkside> depends on the yagi
[02:50] <flyingtoaster0> i guess what i mean is: would i have to constantly adjust it?
[02:50] <flyingtoaster0> ahh
[02:50] <Darkside> the bigger it is, the narrower the beamwidth
[02:50] <flyingtoaster0> narrower the bandwidth, and higher the gain?
[02:50] <Darkside> yes
[02:50] <nigelvh> Beamwidth and bandwidth are different
[02:51] <Darkside> sorry, yes
[02:51] <nigelvh> But yes, the narrower the beam width is the higher the gain
[02:51] <Darkside> i read that as beamwidth
[02:51] <nigelvh> There is a lot of terminology.
[02:51] <flyingtoaster0> hahah, it seems so
[02:53] <flyingtoaster0> interesting. well this is kind of encouraging. i was a little intimidated with regards to tracking at first
[02:53] <Darkside> in generall you don't need the yagi unless the payload is either far away from you, or low down to the ground
[02:53] <flyingtoaster0> oh really? so chasing should be sufficient then?
[02:54] <nigelvh> Yes, a yagi can be helpful when it's on or near the ground to help determine direction.
[02:54] <Dan-K2VOL> And you want to get as close to the balloon on final descent so you can to receive as many data points
[02:54] <Dan-K2VOL> if it drops into a valley and you lose the signal
[02:55] <TonioElGringo> anyone has good documentation on delta-wings or similar vehicles coming down the atmosphere form 120/140km? I have some troubles computing the aerodynamic coefficients in hypersonic speeds...
[02:55] <Darkside> TonioElGringo: i think the people you are after are asleep at the moment
[02:56] <TonioElGringo> oh, okay
[02:56] <heathkid> or won't tell you anyway
[02:56] <Dan-K2VOL> And this is primarily a balloon chat room, so you may want to continue searching as well
[02:56] <heathkid> hypersonic speeds from 140km up???
[02:56] <Dan-K2VOL> heathkid, that would be a spaceship deorbiting
[02:56] <heathkid> exactly
[02:56] <TonioElGringo> well, I have this suborbital vehicle to design
[02:56] <heathkid> not a balloon
[02:57] <Dan-K2VOL> you might want to look in the NTRS archive whenever they decide to put it back online
[02:57] <TonioElGringo> and since the name of the chan was HighAltitude...
[02:57] <Dan-K2VOL> Logical ;-)
[02:58] <Dan-K2VOL> is it for a school project tonio?
[02:58] <TonioElGringo> king of
[02:58] <TonioElGringo> kind*
[02:59] <TonioElGringo> It is for a student contest held by Dassault and EADS
[02:59] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
[03:01] <TonioElGringo> I am also working on a project about a solid engine launcher in China
[03:01] <TonioElGringo> but I figure this chan is not about putting things in orbite?
[03:01] <Dan-K2VOL> no
[03:04] <TonioElGringo> okay, thanks anyway!
[03:05] <flyingtoaster0> in regards to chasing: I suppose the most logical thing to do is simply to go where it goes, and of course have a prediction of where it will land?
[03:05] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, the habhub predictor will do that for you
[03:06] <flyingtoaster0> excellent!
[03:06] <flyingtoaster0> what kind of range would one generally be able to get with a monopole antenna?
[03:07] <flyingtoaster0> i mean, of course, it depends on obstructions and such, but...
[03:07] <nigelvh> The record the guys in the UK have is about 750km
[03:07] <flyingtoaster0> oh wow!
[03:07] <nigelvh> In general if you're chasing it you'll be nowhere near that far away.
[03:08] <Dan-K2VOL> also, don't launch when it looks like your prediction will take it where you don't want to chase it :-)
[03:08] <flyingtoaster0> ahahah of course :)
[03:08] <flyingtoaster0> are links allowed here?
[03:08] <Dan-K2VOL> I think so
[03:08] <nigelvh> Yeah
[03:08] <flyingtoaster0> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/5-070A-SMA-female-17-5CM-UHF-L-Whip-Antenna-/261035346940?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Antennas&hash=item3cc6eb4bfc&_uhb=1#ht_3720wt_1111
[03:09] <flyingtoaster0> is this what i would be looking for?
[03:09] <nigelvh> On the balloon, it's very easy to make the antenna with a few pieces of wire.
[03:09] <nigelvh> Don't buy one.
[03:09] <flyingtoaster0> oh really? i mean like, for chasing
[03:10] <nigelvh> For chasing that won't be what you want.
[03:10] <flyingtoaster0> oh
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[03:11] <nigelvh> This is the antenna I have on my car and it works well. http://www.diamondantenna.net/nr770ha.html
[03:12] <nigelvh> And you'd need a mag mount to go with it. I have this one: http://www.diamondantenna.net/spm35.html
[03:12] <flyingtoaster0> i've been searching "17.5cm monopole antenna", am i missing something?
[03:12] <flyingtoaster0> ah sorry
[03:12] <flyingtoaster0> didn't see the messages
[03:12] <nigelvh> If you want to search for an antenna, I'd search along the lines of "70cm" which indicates the band rather than the length of the antenna.
[03:13] <nigelvh> Also, Evening KT5TK
[03:14] <nigelvh> also keep in mind that you'll need a radio.
[03:15] <flyingtoaster0> right. would SDR with a HAMAmp be sufficient?
[03:17] <flyingtoaster0> an SDR USB dongle, i mean
[03:21] <nigelvh> In theory yes, though it may be more of a hassle to deal with in the car
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[03:21] <nigelvh> Though it's also likely your cheapest option, which has advantages
[03:24] <flyingtoaster0> excellent! as long as it works, i suppose
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[03:25] <nigelvh> As for the balloon system, I'd look at the trackuino project (despite my own feelings on it). It will be a good start.
[03:26] <nigelvh> If you want to go the APRS route that is.
[03:26] <nigelvh> The UK guys use RTTY
[03:26] <nigelvh> Which is another excellent option.
[03:27] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone know of atool to browse weather models?
[03:27] <Dan-K2VOL> that's not McIDAS or IDV
[03:33] <nigelvh> I'd take that as a no...
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[05:07] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RkDOOsGg-9I
[05:07] <arko> epic
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[06:23] <SpeedEvil> http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4901098/nasa-red-faced-after-curiosity-rover-draws-image-of-penis-on-mars.html epic
[06:39] <arko> -__-
[06:41] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/vqVpI.gif
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[07:26] Nick change: junderwood -> junderwood_M0JCU
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[07:32] <junderwood_M0JCU> Stealth launch?
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[07:37] <cm13g09> junderwood_M0JCU: referring to ESRB?
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[07:39] <craag> Morning cm13g09
[07:39] <cm13g09> morning craag
[07:39] <craag> what, balloon in the air already
[07:39] <cm13g09> ESRB is up
[07:40] <cm13g09> and that wasn't on the radar as far as I can tell...
[07:41] <craag> Proposed launch at 10am :|
[07:41] <cm13g09> craag: for ESRB?
[07:42] <cm13g09> (I'm not on the mailing list
[07:42] <craag> You should be
[07:42] <craag> Yeah
[07:42] <cm13g09> lol
[07:43] <cm13g09> I see the one for NSE/CHEAPO....
[07:45] Action: cm13g09 now needs to sort out the UKHAS filtering
[07:48] <junderwood_M0JCU> cm13g09, yes
[07:49] <junderwood_M0JCU> Payload is only in dl-fldigi as experimental
[07:49] <cm13g09> ah I see
[07:49] <junderwood_M0JCU> and isn't on the banner of spacenear.us
[07:49] <junderwood_M0JCU> although there was a UKHAS message earlier in the week
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[07:49] <cm13g09> seems to be making a U-turn and heading for Heybridge basin....
[07:51] <junderwood_M0JCU> I think it's likely to get wet at some stage
[07:51] <cm13g09> mm
[07:51] <cm13g09> it does look like that
[07:51] <cm13g09> doesn't it?
[07:51] <cm13g09> on the plus side.... HAB activity in my area back home
[07:52] <cm13g09> (currently lurking in Southampton at Uni)
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[07:55] <alexb__> Seems like there are quite a few balloons that have landed days ago on http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[07:55] <cm13g09> alexb__: yes - although they could be people testing
[07:55] <alexb__> ok
[07:55] <craag> alexb__: Yeah, it'll be cleared as soon as a VIP wakes up.
[07:56] <cm13g09> craag: it's manual clearning?
[07:57] <cm13g09> also.... wet feet for ESRB
[07:57] <number10> if you refresh some of them will clear
[07:57] <cm13g09> looks plausible...
[07:57] <number10> who is hyde?
[07:58] <cm13g09> it's almost like we need a whois service for balloons....
[07:58] <SpeedEvil> :)
[07:58] <SpeedEvil> longfinger
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[07:58] <SP9UOB_Tom> morning all
[07:59] <number10> if you do another refresh of spacenear the other test flights should clear
[08:00] <craag> Thanks number10
[08:01] Nick change: number10 -> number10_M0MDB
[08:01] <craag> I'm getting really deep fading on ESRB, not a single decode yet
[08:01] <cm13g09> craag: not at all surprising... really....
[08:01] <craag> cm13g09: Why?
[08:02] <cm13g09> I wouldn't have expected it to reach Southampton from there anyway
[08:02] <craag> Oh it's well within range.
[08:03] <cm13g09> if you say so
[08:03] <craag> The green circle on the map is the 5 degree horizon. If you're using a half-decent antenna and you're within that circle, you'll be able to pick it up.
[08:03] <cm13g09> OH!
[08:04] Action: cm13g09 couldn't see the circle, assumed spacenear was doing something odd.... zoomed out, and discover it covering a large chunk of the UK
[08:04] <craag> People on top of hills (eg ASTRA) can pick it up anywhere in the blue circle, or further
[08:05] <cm13g09> ESRB is a bit of a boomerang balloon, isn't it?
[08:05] <cm13g09> it's on its way back to whence it came from
[08:06] <craag> Yeah wind changes weirdly at altitude.
[08:06] <craag> Looks like it might be getting dunked though :/
[08:06] <cm13g09> mm
[08:07] <cm13g09> depends if it hits an on-shore wind when it comes back over land
[08:07] <cm13g09> and it looks like it might have done a bit
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[08:08] <craag> It'll do roughly the opposite shape of what it's doing on the way up, but slightly smaller and in the same direction.
[08:08] <craag> (on descent)
[08:08] <craag> cm13g09: I'm not sure onshore counts for much at 25km altitude.
[08:09] <cm13g09> no
[08:09] <cm13g09> I was thinking that
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[08:09] <cm13g09> but it did seem to get a kick as it came back over land....
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[08:10] <craag> Just coincidence.
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[08:11] <junderwood_M0JCU> What on earth is wrong with the signal? It should be an easy decode from here
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[08:12] <craag> Yeah, I'm getting fades from 20dB snr down to completely invisible within the same sentence
[08:12] <craag> non-omni I'm guessing
[08:13] <junderwood_M0JCU> It was OK to start with but it's gone downhill fast
[08:13] <kpiman> getting no decodes in Doncaster
[08:13] <craag> I'm yet to get a decode in southampton.
[08:14] Action: cm13g09 can't easily decode in Soton
[08:14] <junderwood_M0JCU> I think there's some QRM on that frequency as well
[08:15] <cm13g09> It just needs to make an avoidance of Hanningfield...
[08:16] <craag> cm13g09: No radio?
[08:16] <cm13g09> craag: more like no antenna that'll be capable
[08:16] <junderwood_M0JCU> cm13g09, you don't need much of an antenna
[08:16] <craag> Slim-jim in the loft?
[08:16] <cm13g09> not got access to that
[08:17] <cm13g09> I've got the 2m Dipole
[08:17] <cm13g09> or the ant on my handheld....
[08:17] <craag> Ah, and your window is south-facing
[08:17] <junderwood_M0JCU> That might do it if you're not too far away
[08:17] <craag> You might as well give it a go
[08:17] <craag> you're a lot further up the hill than me!
[08:17] <junderwood_M0JCU> I've used a 20m dipole successfully before now
[08:17] <cm13g09> give me a frequency then ;)
[08:17] <junderwood_M0JCU> 434.072
[08:18] <craag> cm13g09: What radio are you using
[08:18] <craag> ?
[08:18] <craag> (needs to be ssb)
[08:18] <cm13g09> it's a 5R ;)
[08:18] <cm13g09> lol
[08:18] <cm13g09> no chance then
[08:19] <cm13g09> I only have a 5R or the 2800
[08:19] <craag> no rtl-sdr?
[08:19] <cm13g09> nope!
[08:19] <cm13g09> not yet anyway
[08:19] <craag> ah darn
[08:20] <cm13g09> uh oh...
[08:20] <cm13g09> it seems to be heading for Southend...
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[08:26] <cm13g09> ESRB seems to be wandering all over the place...
[08:26] <cm13g09> and going up and up and up...
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[08:27] <arko> Top of the mornin
[08:28] <cm13g09> morning arko
[08:28] <f5ct> freq. esrb ? thanks
[08:28] <cm13g09> 434.072
[08:29] <f5ct> many thanks
[08:29] <arko> Are you flying cm13g09?
[08:29] <cm13g09> no
[08:29] <cm13g09> just watching
[08:29] <arko> Cool
[08:29] <cm13g09> the only thing that's flying in my world this morning, is a linux build on a 8-core i7
[08:31] <SP9UOB_Tom> cm13g09: [verox@matrix ~]$ cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep name
[08:31] <SP9UOB_Tom> model named_pronox.conf: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770K CPU @ 3.50GHz
[08:32] Last message repeated 7 time(s).
[08:32] <craag> GREEN LINE :D
[08:32] <cm13g09> SP9UOB_Tom: that's the kinda of machine, yeah
[08:32] <craag> First one in about 3 quarters of an hour of listing
[08:32] <cm13g09> craag: I saw ;)
[08:32] <SP9UOB_Tom> verox@matrix ~]$ free -m
[08:32] <SP9UOB_Tom> total used free shared buffers cached
[08:32] <SP9UOB_Tom> Mem: 16011 15217 794 0 430 10436
[08:32] <SP9UOB_Tom> -/+ buffers/cache: 4350 11660
[08:32] <cm13g09> and it's still going up
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[08:32] <cm13g09> SP9UOB_Tom: ok... you win there ;)
[08:33] <SP9UOB_Tom> just under my desk :-)
[08:33] <cm13g09> yeah, same here
[08:33] <cm13g09> the joys of doing embedded linux projects
[08:34] <cm13g09> has anyone got any idea when ESRB might consider come back from the edge of space? It seems to be on track for one of the highest flights I've seen on here
[08:35] <craag> cm13g09: They haven't said, and don't appear to be on here.
[08:35] <cm13g09> hmm, yeah
[08:36] <craag> But high-30s is quite normal for a 1600g balloon I think.
[08:40] <cm13g09> up past 37
[08:41] <bertrik> we're trying to receive esrb at revspace, the hague, netherlands too now
[08:42] <GMT> it's not a very good signal, and not displaying correctly in fl-digi
[08:42] <craag> bertrik: It's not a good signal at all, antenna appears to be faulty/damaged.
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[08:42] <gonzo_> sounded bursty
[08:42] <craag> And yeah, you'll need to set it up manually. (480 shift, 8N1)
[08:43] <craag> yep burst
[08:43] <cm13g09> that's coming down fast!
[08:44] <junderwood_M0JCU> they do
[08:44] <junderwood_M0JCU> until they find some atmosphere for the parachute
[08:44] <cm13g09> fair enough
[08:45] <cm13g09> we've lost it?!
[08:45] <junderwood_M0JCU> No. Just struggling for decodes.
[08:45] <junderwood_M0JCU> It's having a rough ride
[08:45] <cm13g09> fair enough
[08:45] <junderwood_M0JCU> Should improve once it starts to slow down a bit
[08:46] <junderwood_M0JCU> Spinning quite fast from the look of the waterfall
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[08:47] <GMT> at least they won't have to drive too far to recover it
[08:47] <cm13g09> GMT: true
[08:48] <junderwood_M0JCU> It could still end up in the drink
[08:48] <cm13g09> junderwood_M0JCU: it'd have to try pretty hard to do so!
[08:48] <GMT> there was a weather-sonde landed in that area last week
[08:48] <junderwood_M0JCU> the low level winds are towards the NE and it will spend much more time down there than where it is at the moment
[08:48] <cm13g09> true
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[08:50] <cm13g09> junderwood_M0JCU: at which point, Hanningfield is not out of the question....
[08:50] <junderwood_M0JCU> My guess would be to the north east of there
[08:50] <GMT> what's wrong or special about Hanningfield?
[08:51] <cm13g09> GMT: large body of water
[08:51] <junderwood_M0JCU> I think it's that big lake
[08:51] <GMT> ah, okay
[08:52] <junderwood_M0JCU> should turn NE at about 17km
[08:52] <cm13g09> I'm from Essex, and although there's 3 tiny villages around it, the area is just known as Hanningfield, and its primary landmark is the reservoir....
[08:56] <cm13g09> right, back in a bit, I wonder where this will end up!
[09:02] <cm13g09> junderwood_M0JCU: you're right.....
[09:03] <junderwood_M0JCU> :)
[09:04] <junderwood_M0JCU> and then a turn to the SSE at about 5 km
[09:04] <craag> Just north of Wickford would be my guess.
[09:04] <junderwood_M0JCU> and it can drift a long way during the descent from 5 km
[09:04] <junderwood_M0JCU> I wouldn't bet agains Southend
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[09:05] <junderwood_M0JCU> I just wish it would stop spinning
[09:05] <craag> They're lucky they've got F5APQ on the job
[09:06] <junderwood_M0JCU> a big yagi on a big hill
[09:06] <craag> He seems to be single-handedly responsible for most of the positions coming in :)
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[09:09] <bertrik> esrb is getting very weak now here, just barely visible in the waterfall
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[09:15] <craag> morning f5apq
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[09:15] <f5apq> morning all
[09:16] <craag> Looks like you've been working hard with ESRB
[09:18] <craag> The river crouch is looking likely now
[09:18] <f5apq> i have a good take of in that direction
[09:21] <WILLdude> Anything heading my way today?
[09:22] <craag> WILLdude: There's a launch from elsworth later that you should be able to track.
[09:22] <WILLdude> Hmm.
[09:23] <WILLdude> I have a shit los to cambridge though.
[09:23] <craag> Just wait until it's well up in the air.
[09:23] <craag> I don't tend to bother looking at the radio until I'm inside the green circle.
[09:23] <WILLdude> qWhere is it going and when is it launching?
[09:24] <craag> Launching at about 11 I think, don't know where it's going.
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[09:24] <craag> Probably not very far considering ESRB's path just now.
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[09:25] <WILLdude> I won't bother.
[09:25] <cm13g09> craag: have we had anything landing back where it started?
[09:26] <craag> cm13g09: A couple of fields over once I think.
[09:26] <craag> Very rare.
[09:26] <cm13g09> hehe, fair enough
[09:26] <cm13g09> yeah
[09:26] <cm13g09> I can believe it would be
[09:27] <cm13g09> ~15 mins to landing based on the altitude and rate
[09:27] <Hix> Morning peeps
[09:27] <WILLdude> I need some bitcoins.
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[09:28] <Hix> WILLdude: http://goo.gl/oBsYc
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[09:30] <WILLdude> Hix: Quoting the total amount of electricity used isn't a good way to convince people it's bad.
[09:31] <Hix> with the exception of Octave [eroomde will definitely say Octave] what options are there that people would recommend as a piece of maths software, a la mathcad etc?
[09:32] <Hix> Octave seems excellent, but it's another programmng language to learn
[09:32] <WILLdude> Mathematica?
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[09:32] <craag> I had 10 bitcoins a few years ago (when they first started), lost them in a hdd failure and didn't think much of it til I saw the price crash...
[09:32] <WILLdude> Lol.
[09:32] <WILLdude> Can you borrow supercomputers at a uni for bitcoin mining?
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[09:33] <WILLdude> It's actually leveled off now pretty much.
[09:34] <WILLdude> Y'know if anyone wants to get me some money.. http://bitbin.it/sdy8tY4K
[09:35] <WILLdude> :P
[09:38] <Hix> anyone used Maxima? opinions on it? Mathematica seems to have pretty much the same functionality and based on the same underlying code but Maxima is o.s
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[10:01] <Hix> hmmm, Maxima looks pretty nice.
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[10:10] <bertrik> Any more HAB launches today? craag mentioned one at around 11, is that today?
[10:11] <craag> According to the mailing list there's a MONDO launch at 11.
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[10:13] <bertrik> craag, 11 in UK time, so 10:00 UTC?
[10:14] <craag> I assume so....
[10:14] <bertrik> thanks
[10:14] <craag> Well... 11 ISH ;)
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[10:16] <cm13g09> craag: this sounds like all times are HAB standard time....
[10:18] <costyn> anybody around that can clear out old data from the tracker?
[10:18] <costyn> and put up the current launches in the box on the upper left?
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[10:46] <bertrik> hydest001 about to launch?
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[10:55] <futurity> Does anyone know the frequency details of hydest001/
[10:56] <junderwood_M0JCU> I think it's just testing
[10:56] <mfa298> I can't see anything on the list for it. It could just be testing
[10:56] <junderwood_M0JCU> It appeared yesterday as well
[10:57] <junderwood_M0JCU> .. and I can't see a launch from a bedroom window working :)
[10:57] <futurity> I take it no more launches today then? Was looking to help track
[10:57] <futurity> ;)
[10:57] <futurity> seems that there is only the one launch on the tracker
[10:57] <futurity> at 9am
[10:57] <mfa298> There should be one from near cambridge
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[10:57] <futurity> nothing listed in the top left box
[10:58] <mfa298> i don't think that has been updated since lat week
[10:58] <futurity> oh
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[10:58] <junderwood_M0JCU> There was a message on the list about a Mondo launch today but nothing further
[10:59] <mfa298> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ukhas/ZYvKXRh34Zw/Gob50STLMiIJ
[10:59] <mfa298> ^^ Details for the mondo launch
[11:00] <mfa298> although it doesn't look like mondo made it onto the ical feed
[11:00] <mfa298> then again I don't think ESRB did either
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[11:02] <futurity> if its not on the ical feed, then i take it that the balloon won't appear on the map either?
[11:02] <Randomskk> it can still appear on the map
[11:02] <Randomskk> the ical feed is flight docs
[11:02] <futurity> if not on the map, it makes pointing the yogi a bit tricky ;)
[11:02] <Randomskk> so someone might have not made one
[11:02] <futurity> i see
[11:03] <Randomskk> but still have a configuration doc that allows it to be parsed and get on the map
[11:03] <Randomskk> you're not meant to, though
[11:03] <Randomskk> also google can take a fair few hours to refresh the ical feed if it's on your google calendar
[11:03] <futurity> does the ical details contain the auto config settings for fl-digi software
[11:03] <mfa298> anything that's recieved will appear on the map but I don't think it will appear in the dl-fldigi list of current flights
[11:03] <Randomskk> futurity: yes, check event description
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[11:03] <futurity> cool
[11:04] <futurity> i'll pop back later on and hopefully it'll be on the map and trackable ;)
[11:04] <futurity> many thanks for your help guys
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[11:09] <gonzo__> hmmm, just got a bigger colinear ant, shoudl I go and put it up for the next launch?
[11:10] <Maxell> shouldn't thye be launching in the near future?
[11:11] <Maxell> what freq is mondo on?
[11:15] <mfa298> that's some fast ascent/descent on roll.
[11:16] <Maxell> dem spikes
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[11:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> what freg is ROLL on ?
[11:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> freq
[11:33] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: It appears to be erroneous data. It's not launching today. (afaik)
[11:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh right ah I see I thought it was a track in progress but its just a series of error jumps
[11:34] <craag> I bet it looks funky in GE!
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[11:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> Hadn't go that far, was having a relax in bed and thought there might be one flight today only to see several!
[11:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> so jumped up here and put the Rx's on only no info on the panels or on the lists
[11:36] <craag> We had one early 'stealth' flight, we're expecting a MONDO launch from Elsworth, but no sign yet.
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[11:37] <mfa298> im wondering if its happening now
[11:38] <number10_M0MDB> I left radio on and went out - seems to have tracked ESRB untill the end
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[11:51] <malgar> hello! New launches this weekend?
[11:54] <number10_M0MDB> possibly mondo soon and tomorrow chepo
[11:55] <number10_M0MDB> chapo
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[11:55] <number10_M0MDB> cheapo - third time lucky
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[11:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> Is Daveake flying ROLL or just happens to be tracking ?
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[11:59] <mfa298> I suspect it's some bad data
[12:00] <mfa298> although looking at the track it appears it's been picked up by other people
[12:00] <junderwood_M0JCU> Looks like testing to me
[12:00] <junderwood_M0JCU> Has G3WDI gone fishing?
[12:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its very organised data in that case! Not random!
[12:01] <number10_M0MDB> handy place to have a tracker
[12:01] <mfa298> looking at the track there are various other recievers so i'm wondering if something else is putting data in
[12:02] <junderwood_M0JCU> Hmm. One of them appears to be me and I can guarantee I'm not!
[12:02] <daveake> That ROLL data wasn't uploaded today. Must be a habitat thing
[12:02] <daveake> ROLL died in the channel last year
[12:03] <daveake> I've deleted it
[12:03] <junderwood_M0JCU> Was it on 27th April by any chance?
[12:03] <daveake> nope
[12:03] <junderwood_M0JCU> The ghost of missions past
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[12:09] <homewld> Not quite fishing should be at JO02UK!
[12:19] <homewld> quit
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[12:37] <SP9UOB_Tom> daveake: nice to see you :-)
[12:37] <SP9UOB_Tom> daveake: i need color approval ;-) http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pliki/IMG_0055.JPG
[12:38] <gonzo__> anything else due up today?
[12:38] <number10_M0MDB> mondo was - last email said something about permission
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[12:41] <gonzo__> was that a flight doc approva, rather than a notam?
[12:41] <number10_M0MDB> and expect to launch 11ish - so its a little late not appearing on the map - even for ish time
[12:42] <gonzo__> hab-ish
[12:42] <mfa298> it sounded like they were waiting for flight doc approval
[12:42] <number10_M0MDB> oh yea just read it again was talking about docs
[12:43] <mfa298> i think it was lauching from elsworth so presumably notam is already covered
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[12:45] <Maxell> SP9UOB_Tom: lol pok├Ęballs
[12:45] <cm13g09> so no extra flights today then.
[12:46] <SP9UOB_Tom> Maxell: :-)
[12:46] <Maxell> Sounds like it :(
[12:46] <cm13g09> at least, not uk based
[12:46] <Maxell> heh
[12:46] <mfa298> cm13g09: starting to look that way, but there should be one tomorrow morning
[12:46] <Maxell> I don't think I'll be able to do Poland. Not sure tough
[12:48] Nick change: cm13g09 -> cmalton-busmobil
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[13:00] <malgar> I'm thinking about beacons for local searching of the payload in the case of gps wouldn't work at ground level. My idea is a loud buzzer and a led emitter. Other ideas?
[13:09] <GMT> some kind of smoke bomb?
[13:09] <craag> malgar: LED is a bit difficult as it needs to be omni-directional and bright. A buzzer has been used, but people tended to advise a clear on-off switch for when it gets annoying.
[13:11] <malgar> ok
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[13:19] Nick change: cmalton-busmobil -> cmalton
[13:19] Nick change: cmalton -> cm13g09
[13:19] <mfa298> must be some good hab points for whoever can send the lat/long via smoke signals.
[13:20] <cm13g09> lol
[13:21] <malgar> how many bauds using smoke signals?
[13:23] <malgar> As I said before I'll use the tk102 gsm/gps tracker.. It would be possible to send coordinates to habitat received through the gprs socket?
[13:26] <craag> malgar: Is this one of the units that (sometimes) sends you the co-ordinates by sms?
[13:29] <craag> If so, then no.
[13:31] <malgar> no sms.. strings over ip
[13:31] <craag> oh
[13:32] <malgar> data strings
[13:32] <craag> It's possible then.
[13:32] <craag> Whether it's implemented or not, I don't know.
[13:32] <malgar> I could manage the raw string on my server to get a compatible format for habitat
[13:34] <craag> That might be an easy way to do it. You'd then submit a 'payload telemetry' doc to habitat, the same way dl-fldigi does.
[13:35] <malgar> it could be an interesting experiment
[13:35] <craag> Is it worth it for a GSM tracker though? As you're only going to get a couple of flights points at most?
[13:36] <malgar> this model should also memorize all the data untill it gets gprs signal
[13:36] <malgar> and the it sends them
[13:36] <malgar> then
[13:36] <craag> Does the GPS in it work at altitude?
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[13:37] <malgar> craag: obviously not
[13:37] <malgar> but i need to be cheapm lightweight ans simple in this launch
[13:37] <malgar> and
[13:37] <malgar> ouff
[13:37] <malgar> -m
[13:38] <craag> ?
[13:39] <craag> ok
[13:40] <malgar> craag: I'm using a crap transmission chip in my head :P
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[13:40] <malgar> so you could receive bad data when you try a connection with me :P
[13:41] <craag> How often does it update the position?
[13:41] <malgar> 5 s
[13:42] <craag> Ok, that's not bad. Just have to hope it does un-limit the GPS and connect on the way down.
[13:44] <craag> Basically there's so much that can go wrong with GSM trackers in a balloon, a lot of which is very easy to completely avoid by using a radio tracker.
[13:44] <craag> Hence why we reccomend that :)
[13:45] <malgar> craag: as I explained before.. another reason about my choice is because of the mountains and the valleys. Except small spots in narrow valleys GSM has a good coverage. A radio Tracker would work perfectly untill the balloon goes below the horizon entering in a valley. And that is the most important moment to get data
[13:45] <craag> malgar: Here's the docs for inserting telemtry into habitat: http://habitat.readthedocs.org/en/latest/habitat/habitat/habitat.uploader.html
[13:46] <malgar> gsm coverage here is similar to.. hmm think about "filling" the valleys with a liquid up to the top
[13:48] <malgar> craag: tnx! it seems very clear
[13:48] <Laurenceb_> is there a launch today?
[13:48] <malgar> anyway I will launch in June, not earlier
[13:52] <craag> malgar: np, if you get stuck then #habhub is the channel to ask in
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[13:58] <malgar> how many developers are there behind hab?
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[14:01] <Laurenceb_> none
[14:01] <Laurenceb_> they are all beneath it
[14:01] <malgar> Laurenceb: :P
[14:02] <craag> malgar: About 4 - 5
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[14:26] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
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[14:28] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[14:29] <cm13g09> afternoon Lunar_Lander
[14:29] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[14:29] <cm13g09> busy
[14:29] <cm13g09> very busy
[14:29] <cm13g09> final year University project is due on Wednesday
[14:30] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[14:30] <Lunar_Lander> let me guess
[14:30] <Lunar_Lander> a balloon?
[14:30] <cm13g09> nope
[14:30] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[14:31] <Lunar_Lander> what is it?
[14:31] <steve_____> So I managed to get everything setup using a RTL-SDR USB dongle I have Gqrx to tune the dongle and using a headphone to microphone jack to send the signal to dl-fldigi, I can see myself on the tracker at http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[14:31] <steve_____> yay
[14:32] <steve_____> I only have the small little aerial that came with the dongle
[14:32] <cm13g09> Lunar_Lander: it's a traffic graphing router that's a single unit
[14:32] <Lunar_Lander> sounds cool
[14:32] <steve_____> should I be able to 'hear' anything
[14:32] <steve_____> is there a test channel I can tune in to?
[14:32] <cm13g09> Lunar_Lander: yeah, hard work
[14:32] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[14:33] <cm13g09> mfa298: > PM
[14:33] <craag> steve_____: No
[14:33] <craag> steve_____: You'll have to wait for a flight :)
[14:34] <steve_____> there is one tomorrow right?
[14:34] <craag> Yep, from essex.
[14:34] <steve_____> will that be too far away from me to hear in the corner of Surrey and Hampshire?
[14:34] <craag> You'll be able to hear it once it gets high.
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[14:35] <craag> Watch for when the green circle encloses you.
[14:35] <steve_____> ok cool thanks :)
[14:35] <craag> I'm in Southampton and often wait for that before even looking at the radio (I'm on a south facing hill)
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[14:36] <steve_____> the green circle is small on the balloons that are on the map now - is that because they are no longer transmitting?
[14:36] <Lunar_Lander> no
[14:36] <Lunar_Lander> that's because of them being on the ground
[14:36] <Lunar_Lander> meaning low radio range
[14:37] <steve_____> ok - so they are still transmitting though else they would be removed from the map?
[14:38] <craag> No, they stay on there until they're manually removed.
[14:38] <steve_____> good stuff - thanks again for the answers :)
[14:39] <craag> No worries. ~9am tomorrow for the flight launch.
[14:39] <steve_____> Two last questions before I unplug - what time is the flight tomorrowish and how can I find out for myself?
[14:39] <steve_____> one question then - hehe
[14:39] <craag> steve_____: We have a mailing list here: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/ukhas
[14:40] <craag> Flights will be announced on there.
[14:40] <steve_____> excellent
[14:40] <steve_____> CHEAPO: 434.300MHz, 50 baud, 425hz shift, ASCII-7, 2 stop bits, no parity
[14:40] <craag> That's the one.
[14:42] <steve_____> oh dear - sorry more questions
[14:43] <craag> no worries, I'm waiting for sims to run. shoot.
[14:43] <steve_____> I tune in Gqrx to 434.300MHz and then the remainder of the config is in dl-fldigi?
[14:43] <craag> Yep, 434.300 SSB (USB)
[14:44] <craag> that's all you need in gqrx
[14:44] <steve_____> Normal filter and Fast AGC?
[14:44] <craag> The rest you should be able to autoconfigure by selecting the flight in the dropdown in dl-fldigi
[14:44] <steve_____> awsome
[14:44] <steve_____> that is already done
[14:45] <craag> Yeah, filter at ~70hz and Fast AGC is best I find.
[14:45] <craag> You might have to twiddle the shift sometimes to line the red lines up with the data.
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[14:46] <steve_____> in dl-fldigi do you mean?
[14:46] <craag> Yeah.
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[14:46] <craag> You should have 2 red lines overlaid on the waterfall?
[14:46] <steve_____> ok
[14:46] <steve_____> yes
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[14:47] <craag> To decode, those should line up with the 2 yellow lines that you'll see from the balloon.
[14:47] <steve_____> great
[14:47] <craag> Shift is how far apart the lines are.
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[14:47] <craag> Usually the specifiec shift is correct
[14:47] <WILLdude> Afternoon.
[14:47] <steve_____> excellent which is auto configured for me :)
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[14:48] <craag> Just jump on here and we'll help you out :)
[14:48] <steve_____> will do - hopefully I won't need too much more help
[14:48] <craag> Sometimes the frequency isn't exactly what's advertised (the transmitter will cool down), so it's worth keeping an eye on here.
[14:49] <steve_____> is that a case of 'finding' it again
[14:49] <steve_____> tuning
[14:49] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[14:49] <craag> Well the guys launching will hopefully find it out before launching it :P
[14:50] <craag> But for us with SDRs, it's very easy to find it :)
[14:50] <steve_____> nice - looking forward to it
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[14:50] <steve_____> speak to you tomorrow
[14:50] <craag> cya
[14:52] <mfa298> with the sdr's there's also the added bit of finding it as the frequency shown isn't always accurate
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[15:00] <nommo> anyone know what i might be getting at 431.998MHz? I just plugged my dongle in for the firs time with SDR#
[15:00] <nommo> it's the only strong signal I can hear (bear in mind I'm a total n00b)
[15:02] <Hix> nommo, it'll be out of calibration so MHz could bbe a way off
[15:03] <mfa298> nommo: there can be lots of different things on that band so it's difficult to guess what it could be
[15:04] <nommo> HIx, Ah OK - I just made a dodgy dipole from some coax... didn't really expect to hear anything! It's a constant tone - is that what you expect to hear from 'something'
[15:04] <Hix> where are you based nommo, there's a lot of crap on that band
[15:04] Action: nommo is perched on edge of bed trying not to move antenna
[15:04] <Hix> airband is useful for dialling in a dongle
[15:04] <nommo> based near ciren
[15:04] <Hix> ahh, i remember you said where you were last week
[15:04] <nommo> cirencester that is
[15:05] <Hix> let me look up a local freq for airband
[15:05] <mfa298> 144.800 NFM can be good as well as there's often APRS traffic there
[15:05] <nommo> lots of military round here fwiw
[15:06] <nommo> mfa298: cheers
[15:06] <mfa298> a constant carrier sounds like some sort of interference.
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[15:06] <nommo> if i move the cnetre the tone goes up or down... just wondered whether there would be an signal in it... binary loike
[15:06] <mfa298> depending on the dongle you might always see what looks like a carrier in the centre of the waterfall which is just an artefact of the device.
[15:06] <Hix> nommo 119.000MHZ Brize, so maybe in range, should be something there
[15:07] <Hix> though you may need to move around a good bit to get something
[15:07] <nommo> mfa298: Ahh yes - the DC spike or whatever it is - I am tuned well to the 'left' of that
[15:07] <bertrik> does it generally shift up or down when cooling?
[15:08] <mfa298> If you see a pure carrier then the tone you hear will depend on the tuning. It's effectivly a case of Carrier Freq - Tuner Freq = Freq you hear
[15:08] <Hix> http://goo.gl/OoYRV 127.475 Gloucestershire Airport ATIS [automated weather]
[15:08] <malgar> I'm reading the doc about SSDV. Why JPG is sent without header?
[15:08] <nommo> Hix: Thanks - I'll give that a go thanks!
[15:09] <nommo> This tone is giving me a headache ;)
[15:09] <Hix> heh
[15:09] <nommo> bertrik: Cooling?
[15:09] <bertrik> nommo, sorry, my irc screen was scolled up and I was looking at an old message
[15:10] <nommo> bertrik: Hah - no worries - I'm always doing similar
[15:10] <Hix> just for ref nommo http://www.airscene.co.uk/tinc should give you something to listen to when no HAB activity
[15:11] <nommo> Hix: Excellent thanks - that was going to be my next Q
[15:11] <Hix> would say Brize Norton and Lyneham would be your best bets around there
[15:14] <nommo> Hmm - getting a similar tone on 119.498
[15:14] <nommo> and 119.998
[15:15] <Hix> for airband choose AM
[15:16] <nommo> So what does a APRS or similar signal'sound' like to us humans? Like the old testcard noise?
[15:16] <nommo> I am on USB - that may explain something ;)
[15:16] <nommo> (but I don't know what!)
[15:16] <Hix> heh
[15:16] <bertrik> the digital signals I've heard so far are often of the beeep-krghhghfggrr kind
[15:17] <Hix> set filter to ~4000
[15:17] <Hix> try 127.475 or thereabouts, you should get weather info form a recorded voice
[15:18] <nommo> bertrik: like a ZX Spectrum loading Manic Miner?
[15:19] <mfa298> nommo: that's probably a reasonable description
[15:20] <nommo> mfa298: :) Now I know what to listen out for
[15:21] <mfa298> nommo: here's a youtube clip where you can hear APRS data http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROeHT0lGLqw
[15:21] <nommo> mfa298: thanks!
[15:21] <mfa298> for APRS you need the radio in NFM mode
[15:21] <nommo> Ah ok - lots to learn!
[15:22] <mfa298> after a while you might get to start reckognising what things looks like in the waterfall
[15:23] <mfa298> most stuff on the amateur bands will be NFM or USB, Airband tends to be AM, Marine band tends to be NFM, Broadcast radio will be WFM.
[15:24] <mfa298> nommo: if you get interested in radio you might find joining your local radio club and even doing the foundation radio exam is useful.
[15:26] <nommo> Hix: Not picking up that weather on that - but there's a strong signal nearby at 126.918... just sounds like fuzz though...
[15:26] <nommo> mfa298: I'llat least be ordering a book or two :)
[15:26] <Hix> you'll have to scan arounf the frequency as dongle will likely be out by quite a bit
[15:27] <nommo> I guess it's not really worth calibrating until I've got a decent antenna
[15:30] <mfa298> you might be able to get an idea of how close it is by looking at an FM signal, If you know what freq a local station should be on you can see where it appears on the waterfall
[15:31] <nommo> Ah yes - I'll also give that a go thanks
[15:32] <mfa298> I didn't find them so easy to work with but it might at least give you an idea of how close the tuning is
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[15:41] <WILLdude> Are we allowed to beg on here?
[15:42] <WILLdude> Wrong chan
[15:42] <WILLdude> Meant for #bitcoin :P
[15:42] <Hix> damn you nommo, I was doing stuff and things, now I'm on airband waging a yagi around ;p
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[15:43] <nommo> Hehe soz Hix :) Ummm I'm supposed to be doing stuff too!
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[15:44] <Hix> HAM peoples, is there any issue with having 2 colinears for different frequencies next to each other on a pole?
[15:44] <Hix> i.e Airband and 70cm next to each other
[15:45] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Yes, like any aerial having any other conducting material within about 1 wavelength will affect the response
[15:45] <Hix> bugger
[15:45] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Unless your able to place them both witin null spots i.e. above each other
[15:46] <Geoff-G8DHE_> *within
[15:46] <Hix> hmm, looking at conversion, 120MHz needs ~2m between it and another ant then
[15:47] <Geoff-G8DHE_> you might get away with less but depends on how critical you need to be 1 lambda is a rule of thumb
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[15:48] <Hix> to be fair, not that critical, as currently I'm using a 70cm Yagi for airband :)
[15:48] <Geoff-G8DHE_> You will normally end up with a Null in the direction of the other aerial
[15:49] <Geoff-G8DHE_> the closer the obstruction is the deeper the null
[15:50] <mfa298> if it's a vertical yagi and colinear then putting one above the other is probably the best way to go if you can.
[15:50] <mfa298> for airband and 70cm's you might find a 2m/70cm dualband colinear works reasonably well
[15:52] <Hix> oh, really, that would be a bonus HAB and airband in one antenna
[15:54] <mfa298> you probably want to look at the specs and see what they show for gain on lower frequencies. It's not going to be an ideal match but could work.
[15:55] <mfa298> especially worth a try if you were looking at a dualband antenna for hab anyway (I'm not sure if there are many single band 70cms antennas out there)
[15:55] <Hix> tbh airband is just an added bonus if i can use 1 ant for both, not massively bothered
[15:57] <craag> a 2/7- collinear should work well for airband rx
[15:57] <craag> *2/70
[15:57] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Yup the normal White sticks have a usefull response down to airband its still circular but significiantly lower gain
[15:58] <mfa298> as with all such things height and decent coax will help a lot.
[15:59] <Geoff-G8DHE_> There are also some helical wound aerials around that might be a little better, they normally have wider bandwidths
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[16:03] <craag> You probably don't want so much gain on airband though?
[16:03] <Geoff-G8DHE_> http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/SDRSharp/message/3679 Others find them OK
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[16:34] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Daniels "[UKHAS] UK Frequencies"
[16:39] <griffonbot> Received email: Jon Sowman "Re: [UKHAS] UK Frequencies"
[16:39] <jonsowman> on the ball as ever griffonbot
[16:39] <cm13g09> AHA, UKHAS mail - time to set up the filters :)
[16:40] <jonsowman> mark as read & -> trash
[16:40] <jonsowman> i joke
[16:40] <jonsowman> partly
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[16:49] <cm13g09> jonsowman: no, just file it in a reasonable folder
[16:49] <jonsowman> hehe
[16:49] <cm13g09> the mark as read the entier folder when unread count > 0
[16:52] <cm13g09> hopefully that's got it
[16:55] <futurity> Hi All,
[16:56] <futurity> Looking at the map, there doesn't seem to have been a launch from Cambridge today?
[16:56] <mfa298> futurity: I dont think it happened in the end
[16:57] <futurity> No problem
[16:57] <mfa298> should be a launch tomorrow morning
[16:58] <mfa298> at the sort of time most people might not like for a sunday morning.
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[17:18] <cm13g09> mfa298: lol
[17:19] <cm13g09> I do understand the concept of 6AM on a Sunday ;)
[17:21] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Good for you! Not sure I will understand it ......
[17:24] <mfa298> I'll stick with being aware of it's existance but have no plans to confirm it.
[17:24] <mfa298> cm13g09: although the question remains, from which side of 6AM are you aware of it ?
[17:24] <cm13g09> I have seen the 05:30 side of it
[17:25] <cm13g09> (and now I have a cat demanding feeding!)
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[17:48] <eroomde> yo
[17:48] <eroomde> arko: around?
[17:49] <eroomde> i am at makerfaire. it is alright
[17:50] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[17:51] <eroomde> i am opposite the american chap with the bright hair
[17:52] <eroomde> who is omnipresent in maker-ey circles on the internet
[17:52] <eroomde> for get the name
[17:52] <eroomde> forget*
[17:52] <eroomde> sounds like an old usergroup
[17:52] <eroomde> usenet group*
[17:52] <eroomde> mitch altman (ty goog)
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[17:54] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL
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[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> oh well
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> saturday night silence
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[18:47] <fsphil> WUB WUB WUB
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> UZ UZ UZ UZ UZ
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> HAB REMIX!
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9rqismqvBA
[18:49] <malgar> lol
[18:50] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaYB3oD2lDE
[18:51] <malgar> you could play it at 30 km high
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[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:54] <fsphil> right, time to watch Doctor Whooooooo
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> YAY
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> on BBCShop there was something about ordering a sonic screwdriver
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[19:08] <arko> eroomde: yo
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> hi arko
[19:09] <arko> Suplunar
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> today I watched episode 208 of TBBT
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> and learned that the crashed rover discovered life on mars but due to the deleted data they couldn't find who did it
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> I mean in the series of course
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[19:14] <SP9UOB_Tom> Pity. APRS coverage ends on Poland, and begins again over Japan :-(
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[19:16] <cuddykid> a quite HABing weekend - haven't had one of them in a while
[19:16] <cuddykid> *quiet
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, more music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhJfdWxpI2Q
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[19:25] <cuddykid> anyone know if it's possible to ssh into pi via local network and then use 3G dongle for connection - basically I need to test 3G dongle with pi without a monitor
[19:26] <Dan-K2VOL> canyou serial port in?
[19:27] <daveake> cuddykid yes that works
[19:27] <cuddykid> daveake: how do I get it to use 3G dongle for internet rather than ethernet?
[19:27] <mfa298> should work if you're connecting to ssh on the local network
[19:28] <daveake> It'll do that automatically
[19:28] <cuddykid> oh ok
[19:28] <cuddykid> I'll give it a go
[19:29] <daveake> Have fun :)
[19:29] <cuddykid> daveake: did you live stream ascent/descent in the end? think I remember you saying something similar
[19:29] <daveake> Programmed it for both. It didn't get 3G in time during descent
[19:29] <mfa298> you can control how it talks to different things by adjusting the routing table (but connections on the same network will usually take precedence over almost anything else)
[19:29] <cuddykid> ah
[19:30] <cuddykid> nice
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[19:50] <WILLdude> Hi.
[19:50] <WILLdude> 5kb/s on a torrent.
[19:50] <WILLdude> Seriously.
[19:51] <fsphil> blockage in the interwebs
[19:51] <WILLdude> I am seeding it faster than I am downloading it.
[19:51] <WILLdude> TalkTalk :(
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[19:51] <fsphil> have you tried turning it off and on again?
[19:51] Action: WILLdude says yes, fsphil hangs up
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[19:52] Action: WILLdude phones back and finds an unapologetic indian man on the phone who does exactly the same thing.
[19:52] Action: WILLdude switches to BT.
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:53] <fsphil> There are not many providers worse than TalkTalk
[19:53] <fsphil> Orange would be one
[19:53] <fsphil> O2 is a bit naff too
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[20:10] <daveake> 38 next?
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[20:11] <chrisstubbs> evening all
[20:11] <fsphil> ello chrisstubbs
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> hello chrisstubbs
[20:12] <chrisstubbs> may have some issues with tommorows launch :P
[20:12] <fsphil> someone steal the balloon?
[20:13] <chrisstubbs> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=cbf4c2ad9bd3588991e701aa64be840ebf51a716
[20:13] <chrisstubbs> she's goin' lannndannn
[20:14] <fsphil> ooooh
[20:14] <chrisstubbs> prediction was in suffolk a couple of days ago
[20:15] <fsphil> it may change yet, though not likely much
[20:15] <fsphil> we seem to be between two weather systems
[20:15] <fsphil> things are very mixed up
[20:16] <chrisstubbs> yeah, not sure if i should call it off now, or wait till the morning
[20:17] <fsphil> best to be safe
[20:19] <chrisstubbs> prediction said it would rain this morning and didnt until like 4pm, would have been a perfect launch
[20:19] <chrisstubbs> really wound me up
[20:22] <chrisstubbs> not much better for later on in the day either
[20:22] <malgar> how do you decide the wire lenght?
[20:22] <chrisstubbs> malgar, the string between balloon-payload?
[20:24] <malgar> yes
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[20:26] <chrisstubbs> 5-10m is the kinda ballpark you want to be in
[20:26] <eroomde> i use 30m
[20:26] <chrisstubbs> balloon-parachute < parachute to payload to avoid tangling though
[20:26] <chrisstubbs> the more the merrier
[20:28] <chrisstubbs> DanielRichman, thanks for changinf the flight doc btw :)
[20:29] <malgar> when the balloon will be launched tomorrow?
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[20:30] <malgar> and who is the launcher? is there a webpage about this launch?
[20:32] <chrisstubbs> malgar, im the launcher
[20:36] <eroomde> turn to the darkside, it is your destiny
[20:36] <eroomde> etc
[20:37] <chrisstubbs> im going to get stuff ready and will check the prediction again at about 6am tommorow morning
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[20:44] <malgar> chrisstubbs: 6am? why are you launching so early in the morning?
[20:45] <chrisstubbs> not launching, thats when i will wake up to check the forecast
[20:45] <chrisstubbs> launch time will be dependant on forecast
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[20:45] <malgar> ok! could you give me more infos about the ballo, payload,..?
[20:45] <malgar> balloon
[20:46] <chrisstubbs> balloon: 300g mil. surplus one, its our old spare from the launch last weekend
[20:46] <chrisstubbs> payload: DIY SMD tracker with ublox neo6 and rfm22b
[20:46] <chrisstubbs> cannon a530 camera & 808 cam
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[20:52] <malgar> chrisstubbs: payload weight?
[20:53] <chrisstubbs> 400g
[20:55] <malgar> another question.. I don't see how to get the permalink of a predict simulation
[20:55] <chrisstubbs> just copy from the url bar
[20:56] <malgar> hermm
[20:56] <malgar> :P
[21:01] <WILLdude> Evening guys, and chrisstubbs .
[21:01] <chrisstubbs> am i not a guy? haha
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[21:02] <WILLdude> This is why I both love and hate facebook:
[21:03] <WILLdude> http://pastie.org/7730514
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[21:13] <malgar> 8 simulations of 10 lands in forest or above mountains 3000m high
[21:13] <malgar> I love risk
[21:13] <malgar> :P
[21:13] <malgar> -s
[21:13] <malgar> still having to learn english well
[21:14] <fsphil> me too
[21:14] <fsphil> the fun is when you land in a forest 3000m high
[21:14] <mfa298> you'll probably find those predictions change as the winds change
[21:16] <malgar> mfa298: well, if the balloon will head to south, there are the plains.. without trees.. just fields
[21:16] <malgar> but they are 100 km away
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[21:17] Nick change: meatmanek_ -> meatmanek
[21:17] <mfa298> there's always the option of choosing a different launch location.
[21:17] <malgar> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=6f2c2659079f71aaa05bf1b921bb0a5981974e3e look at this one :)
[21:17] <malgar> zoom to the landing site
[21:18] <malgar> and switch to satellite images
[21:19] <mfa298> you might find the landing site is earlier than the predicted landing.
[21:19] <mfa298> Some of the predictors assume ground level is at 0m (I can't remember what that one does)
[21:20] <UserHal9k> i have a nutty idea about a very high pressure rocket
[21:21] <fsphil> nutty, high pressure and rocket... what could possibly go wrong :)
[21:21] <mfa298> although looking at your launch location I wonder if it would even get a couple of km, you might want to check the ascent rate will get up the slope your on.
[21:22] <malgar> mfa298: sure.. this is a launch with standard values
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[21:23] <malgar> just a random simulation
[21:23] <UserHal9k> my idea: what would happen if we had 2,000 concentric spheres, one inside the other, and had the propellant stored in the innermost sphere at 100 MPa? then you don't need a chemical reaction.
[21:23] <UserHal9k> the idea is the pressure differential between each concentric sphere would be tolerable, say 50 kPa, so i think it wouldn't destroy itself (then again who knows)
[21:25] <fsphil> wouldn't that work out to about the same as a single thicker sphere?
[21:25] <UserHal9k> i'm thinking force depends on surface area and pressure difference
[21:25] <UserHal9k> at least the net force anyway
[21:25] <malgar> I'm thinking if there is a better shape of the payload to go through the trees.. I really have the fear to see it at the top of the trees
[21:26] <UserHal9k> ..so i'm thinking if that force is 100 MPa on one side of a sphere and say 1atm (or close to 0) on the other the force will be too big for any material to withstand
[21:26] <UserHal9k> unless it's really thick
[21:26] <fsphil> I'm not quick enough at the maths but I bet it would end up heavier
[21:27] <UserHal9k> well i computed 20 km/s exhaust speed
[21:27] <UserHal9k> so if it's heavier, we have to compare to the performance we get
[21:27] <UserHal9k> that's the initial exhaust speed, it goes down as the pressure falls off
[21:28] <fsphil> the temperature is gonna plunge too
[21:29] <UserHal9k> i think we're ok as long as it doesn't liquify
[21:29] <UserHal9k> like, use helium
[21:30] <fsphil> I've seen liquid helium :) though it's mighty cold before it does
[21:31] <UserHal9k> one possible problem is the valving system: you can't just let that high pressure stuff flow out, you have to avoid having adjacent valves in the concentric spheres open at the same time
[21:31] <UserHal9k> i've only played with liquid nitrogen
[21:31] <UserHal9k> not helium
[21:33] <fsphil> well to be fair I saw a tank of it, not the actual stuff
[21:33] <UserHal9k> malgar, are you doing a rocket landing simulation? or a glider?
[21:34] <malgar> UserHal9k: simple balloon
[21:34] <UserHal9k> cool
[21:35] <UserHal9k> does anyone know how to compute the thickness titanium needs to be, to withstand a 50 kPa pressure differential? or is that the wrong question, maybe it has a breaking "force" not "pressure" ?
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[22:52] <jarod> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ_TN-L98FA&hd=1 - 255.550 MHz 2013-04-27 23:33 UTC Satcom Pirates
[23:03] <arko> wut
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[23:13] <chrisstubbs> does anyone know who launched ESRB?
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[23:18] <cuddykid> I was wondering that chrisstubbs
[23:18] <cuddykid> right - done enough coding for this evening
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[23:26] <chrisstubbs> landed about 4mi from my house and i had no idea about it
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[23:27] <Steffanx> Hmm, read your email :P
[23:28] <Steffanx> Some Matt ( phone number included as well) announced it on the mailing list
[23:28] <Steffanx> An mail from the 23rd of april.
[23:29] <Steffanx> *a
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[00:00] --- Sun Apr 28 2013