highaltitude.log.20130424

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[00:30] <arko> woot
[00:30] <arko> success: 23:40:32 KJ6KRW/TELEM>CQ>UI,?,F0 (1199 baud):
[00:30] <arko> [1262348062936;16;794;1;3;28;8.9;31.4;70.3;-6.3;-77.9;-0.7;-0;-0.5]
[00:30] <arko> capped a packet from the Phonesat 2.0 beta
[00:34] <Darkside> cool
[00:34] <Darkside> i got a few last night
[00:34] <Darkside> though not from the beta
[00:35] <arko> what doyour packets look like?
[00:35] <Darkside> KJ6KRW-2>CQ,TELEM:Ç5qjuH0iCS47YCaA!*;TU:f^CP+F!kd!"oD7SH12S!"T&nR66p/,,'qs!>G[R=hlUXTE,=%;;4[8Xq`M(&0LuPrh%o6)k;%],t1Z/938Eg4E"lqe40i]SpT[H%tfi[ia]W_qT^e8qu6D)&dos'H2mJmIjBGsp#5T8/1EP@Fke?TM&["\WP$^\!!Ç
[00:36] <Darkside> they are image packets
[00:36] <arko> wow awesome
[00:36] <Darkside> so i got 4 image packets
[00:36] <Darkside> and one telemetry
[00:36] <Darkside> KJ6KRW-2>CQ,TELEM:Ç5l^lb!<<*"$31&/EW?(I5l^ldr=[^Uh*>f"1II0!s$Mf-O1oHL?U#Oo$9ggDj[#Jg!5[QC!'rdKzzzzzzzz!,,q[Ci:G.Ec5e;FD,5.@<Q.%Ç
[00:36] <arko> aww man, i wish i got an image.. gonna try again tomorrow
[00:37] <Darkside> not much image to look at :P
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[00:39] <arko> aww
[00:39] <arko> did you decode the image?
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[02:12] <techplex> Hey All, I've just found spacenear.us/tracker does it work with bolloons in the USA? Does it have a limitation to the age of the data?
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[02:19] <arko> hi
[02:19] <arko> yes it does
[02:20] <arko> you have to ask one of the folks here, DanielRichman or jcoxon
[02:20] <arko> they will pipe the APRS data to the tracker
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[02:50] <techplex> ah, thanks @arko
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[03:37] <heathkid> arko: how so?
[03:38] <heathkid> is there a page I can go to so I can register a launch?
[03:38] <arko> not exactly sure how exactly, it's some script, habhub folks can do it
[03:38] <heathkid> or would that be too easy?
[03:38] <arko> US launch?
[03:38] <heathkid> yes
[03:38] <heathkid> US / APRS
[03:38] <arko> i went to #habhub and asked when i did it
[03:39] <arko> they know
[03:39] <heathkid> ah
[03:41] <heathkid> thanks arko
[03:41] <arko> np
[03:41] <heathkid> I plan on doing many launches starting soon...
[03:42] <heathkid> I'd like to retrieve as many as I can (of course)... :)
[03:51] <heathkid> I'm still trying to figure out video
[03:52] <heathkid> other than a small keychain HD cam I have to retrieve... I really want live video or pics
[03:52] <heathkid> TX? Mode? Help?
[04:00] <heathkid> not exactly hoppin' in #habhub
[04:02] <arko> UK is asleep
[04:02] <arko> mostly
[04:02] <arko> this is quiet reading time for US people, as we await our friends to awaken
[04:03] Action: arko sips his tea
[04:03] <arko> look into SSDV for habs
[04:03] <arko> if you want to do a live video stream
[04:12] <heathkid> I've done SSTV in the past with great results... SSDV is new to me
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[04:47] <natrium42> ssdv sound like a lot more fun, as it's "crowd-sourced"
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[06:21] <eroomde> morn
[06:22] <arko> WO!
[06:22] <arko> morning
[06:22] <x-f> morning
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[06:28] <arko> i can see the finish line with this stupid lab
[06:28] <arko> then i can sleep to awaken early to get satellite data!
[06:28] <arko> yay!
[06:31] <x-f> http://itvnet.lv/gallery/zala_zeme/daba/14706_230449.jpg - piles of ice by a calm river
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[06:45] <eroomde> arko: which lab?
[06:45] <arko> ee lab for school, it's freq analysis stuff
[06:45] <arko> kinda boring
[06:46] <eroomde> such is life
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[08:59] <kokey> I should ebay myself a few cameras before I get to the UK
[08:59] <kokey> which are the popular ones to use
[09:00] <kokey> powershot A560?
[09:03] <kokey> A590 with missing dust covers, sounds ideal
[09:04] <costyn> kokey: pretty much any Canon which can run CHDK and takes AA batteries (so you can put energizer lithiums in them)
[09:08] <kokey> I'll get an A580 and an A590
[09:08] <kokey> I think
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[09:11] <fsphil> I've launched a few A560's, got pretty good pics
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[10:11] <mattbrejza> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22277215 T-1:00
[10:12] <Randomskk> uhm
[10:12] <Randomskk> oh there we go
[10:13] <mattbrejza> they need a mic that wont clip
[10:13] <Randomskk> took quite an alarming amount of time to start moving upwards
[10:13] <mattbrejza> yea
[10:14] <mattbrejza> it was held down until full power im guessing
[10:14] <Randomskk> yea
[10:14] <Randomskk> still you'd think that would be factored into the countdown
[10:14] <mattbrejza> liquid engines take longer than solids?
[10:15] <mattbrejza> hmm need on board cameras
[10:15] <Randomskk> indeed
[10:15] <Randomskk> lol test card
[10:15] <Randomskk> lol bbc
[10:15] <mattbrejza> :(
[10:17] <daveake> I had a BBC test card for PIE5 to transmit, but it ran out of time
[10:19] <fsphil> aww missed it
[10:22] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: to a zeroth order
[10:22] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: liquid fuel is free
[10:22] <SpeedEvil> it costs almost nothing to increase the size of tanks
[10:23] <SpeedEvil> this means that having your first stage loaded with so much fuel that the overall acceleration is well under a g can be sane
[10:23] <SpeedEvil> this changes for latter stages
[10:23] <SpeedEvil> a side benefit is that the atmosphere is thick low down
[10:23] <mattbrejza> yea they take a while to clear the tower these rockets
[10:23] <mattbrejza> unlike the cusf one
[10:24] <SpeedEvil> you have to throttle back to avoid exceeding structural limits often
[10:24] <SpeedEvil> a very low initial acceleration can avoid this
[10:25] <SpeedEvil> falcon heavy initial launch is this year
[10:28] <mattbrejza> still not as big as the saturn V ?
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[10:42] <Babs> Morning all, is Daveake on?
[10:42] <daveake> nope
[10:42] <daveake> :)
[10:42] <Babs> Thanks Daveake http://imgur.com/RJlrchZ
[10:43] <daveake> Hah cheers!
[10:43] <Babs> HAB-LIBRARY
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[11:10] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: getting there. a little under half to Leo
[11:11] <SpeedEvil> double shuttles
[11:12] <mattbrejza> if KSP has taught me anything, just strap a few more solid boosters to the side and that should sort it :P
[11:12] <mattbrejza> (seems legit)
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> but then again, what you can do now with 55 tons may exceed what you could do then with 159
[11:12] <mattbrejza> 1/2 isnt too bad oc
[11:12] <mattbrejza> use all the carbon fibre...
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> also. seen grasshopper latest video?
[11:12] <mattbrejza> just googling
[11:13] <SpeedEvil> if they can get that working, it's a game changer
[11:13] <SpeedEvil> http://www.spacex.com/multimedia/videos.php
[11:14] <SpeedEvil> recovering all, or most of the craft, and being able to rely without significant expensive rework can easily drop costs to a tenth or less
[11:14] <mattbrejza> i wouldnt want to be anywhere near its landing location
[11:14] <SpeedEvil> the space shuttles liquid fuel cost well under .1% of a launch
[11:14] <fsphil> oh wow
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> and the accidents were all due to the solids
[11:20] <mattbrejza> i thouhgt the insulation from the external fuel tank caused one?
[11:20] <fsphil> yea, lump of ice hitting the wing
[11:22] <gonzo__> was it ice, or insulation foam?
[11:23] <daveake> foam I thought
[11:23] <fsphil> wikipedia says foam
[11:24] <SpeedEvil> it was foam/ice from the solid rockets
[11:24] <mattbrejza> ice was related to the o-rings on the solid booster's failure?
[11:24] <mattbrejza> (a different failure)
[11:24] <SpeedEvil> o-ring stffening in cold
[11:24] <daveake> Just that they were too cold to be able to keep the gap closed
[11:25] <daveake> A known problem but NASA wanted to launch
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> the foam/ice came from the bipod attach area
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> where the solids attach to the ...
[11:25] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if he's misremembered
[11:28] <mattbrejza> i think it was the bipod attachment between the tank and the shuttle
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> yeah
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[11:32] <gonzo__> I miss the shuttel flights
[11:33] <gonzo__> we used to listen to the satellite feeds of the big loop, to the TAL sites
[11:33] <gonzo__> and catch a bit of the VHF comms as tyhey passed over
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[12:18] <mfa298> mattbrejza: craag: did you have any joy with the phonesats yesterday (or earlier today)?
[12:19] <craag> mfa298: Haven't tried.
[12:20] <craag> I took a look last night but of course that wasn't much use.
[12:20] <mfa298> I heard the passes yesterday but couldn't get the tnc in the ts2000 to decode, which might have been down to doppler shift.
[12:21] <mfa298> having stuck my details into the site it suggests there's another good pass at 13:50 with Frequency (inc doppler) of 437.430
[12:25] <craag> Is there any easy setup software for decoding it?
[12:25] <mfa298> I think it's just ax25 data so any packet decoder should work.
[12:26] <mfa298> I was going to try the built in tnc on the ts2000 as that seemed like the easiest method (although software might work better)
[12:27] <Babs> blow through from the o-ring ended up firing a flame/hot gas which had the bipod attachment right in its path. http://www.earthlyissues.com/images/oring.jpg (pic of the blow through). This ended up melting through the strut at which point the solid booster pivoted arouind the other bipod attachment and fired straight into the main tank.
[12:28] <costyn> Babs: is that the gray smoke ? and it was an o-ring in the solid booster?
[12:28] <mfa298> looking at the recieved packets I think some are APRS, but possibly not all
[12:30] <craag> Hmm I'll have a go with agwpe later in the week
[12:30] <craag> working in linux today
[12:30] <Babs> costyn - the gray smoke is the blow through. Basically the booster comes in sections like short pieces of drain pipe, and these are attached together with two o-rings trying to provide a flexible joint so that when the thing starts shaking around under load, the joints between the booster sections stay sound.
[12:31] <Babs> relies on rubber to be flexible for it to do that, only it was so cold on launch day the rubber was essentially stiff and couldn't deform quickly enough to keep a sound joint in between the sections
[12:32] <Babs> so a gap was created, hot gases escaped and burnt through the o-ring and then it was only a matter of time
[12:33] <costyn> Babs: ok, thanks for the extra info
[12:33] <Babs> the guys at Norton Thiokol who made the o-rings actually thought the "matter of time" would be milliseconds, so when it didn't blow up on the pad they thought the danger had passed
[12:34] <Babs> Feynman did a cool demo of it that's now gone down in legend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rwcbsn19c0
[12:35] <costyn> ugh... silly fahrenheit
[12:37] <gonzo__> you would have thought they would have learned the lessons of sloppy management on apollo 1
[12:37] <gonzo__> suppose each generation needs to relearn
[12:38] <costyn> well in a hugely complicated engineering project like this there shit is bound to happen
[12:39] <fsphil> mfa298: someone yesterday mentioned they where sending images via packet
[12:39] <WILLdude> Hi.
[12:39] <WILLdude> Sup guys, and bots, and (women?)
[12:40] <fsphil> and misc
[12:40] <costyn> WILLdude: no such thing as women on the internet
[12:40] <Babs> John Young has faith in the system. I'm not sure my heart rate would have stayed as low during launch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KezwDfFcFhU
[12:40] <mfa298> fsphil: it sounded like packet, of and looking at the list of recieved packets some of those look like APRS but I think others are just data. Will have to see if I get anything in a few mins
[12:40] <WILLdude> fsphil: I was going to say guys, bots and fsphil
[12:40] <fsphil> yea I think the data ones are images
[12:41] <fsphil> sadly not ssdv so you don't get to see it :)
[12:41] <fsphil> I guess they'll release it when they've got enough packets
[12:42] <mfa298> fsphil: and unfortunately it looks like a manual copy and paste as well to upload data.
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[12:43] <fsphil> yea, strange to do that. it's not like there isn't a global network now
[12:44] <mfa298> if #highaltitude did cube sats they'de be the best cube sats ever (ssdv, auto upload and an irc channel)
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[12:44] <gonzo__> is this phonesat?
[12:45] <gonzo__> there is a network being set up to support the student satellites. Called GENSO
[12:46] <gonzo__> like our system, but with centralised schedualling and control
[12:46] <mfa298> this is phonesat, its due to pass overhead shortly
[12:47] <gonzo__> so they can juggle what sats are in range of stations and command them to follow specific sats
[12:47] <mfa298> thay would be good
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[12:57] Action: mfa298 realises he might have heard more if the antenna was in the right socket on the back of the radio
[12:58] <daveake> always helps :)
[12:59] <daveake> I was having no luck at all tracking a flight a few weeks ago, when I realised I hadn't plugged the aerial in
[13:00] <costyn> the back/front connector selection on the 817 is also a good one :)
[13:02] <mfa298> at times I find the TS2000 is a bit of a pain with different connections for 2m and 70cms
[13:23] <gonzo__> if you are using batts, the front connector is the NC posn for the relay, so takes a bit less current
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[15:19] <eroomde> Babs: yo
[15:19] <eroomde> a thought re: cutdowns
[15:20] <eroomde> i found this old vid on the external hdd
[15:20] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1vhHefnrLU&feature=share&list=UUDdAMHrUMRwFU3JafszKI2w
[15:20] <mattbrejza> done in cued's special low gravity lab
[15:20] <eroomde> it uses explosive pyrotechnic protractors. they are little screws with two wires coming out of one end, and an internal charge which protracts a small hardened steel pin upon application of current through the wires
[15:21] <eroomde> the gases are completely sealed inside
[15:21] <eroomde> so no leakage, they can be sent by normal post and so on
[15:22] <eroomde> these are the protractors we use
[15:22] <eroomde> http://www.monetti.net/pdf/en/PRODUCTS_ACTUATORS_GAS_GENERATORS/01/DR%202006%20C2%20EN.pdf
[15:23] <eroomde> i would commend them as probably (imo) the best way of doing a fast, reliable, and safe cutdown
[15:31] <Babs> eroomde - excellent - thanks for popping that on, that external hdd is a goldmine. I reckon I'm too late to build any other cutdown now as I still have a chunk of testing to do (albeit the capsule etc. etc. is basically done). So I either don't fly a cutdown and overfill just to be sure, or fly the pyros I've already built
[15:31] <Babs> I like the parachute ripcord based one too
[15:31] <Babs> ie the series of rings
[15:31] <Babs> and pin
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[15:33] <Babs> Maybe for BABSHAB-3, which I might try some kind of sky anchor thing to see how far I can fly one sans camera. Need to dig out my maths lecture notes for that one.
[15:36] <steve____> Hello - I was wondering if anyone could share experiences with a Kenwood TH-F7E portable transceiver as an initial investment in tracking balloons?
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[15:38] <eroomde> i'm not sure i know about the series of rings
[15:39] <eroomde> steve____: that's the one that can doo ssb right?
[15:39] <craag> mfa298: Is it the TH-F7E that you've got?
[15:39] <steve____> yes it can do ssb
[15:40] <steve____> I am a complete newbie and so I was just wondering if anyone had experience with it
[15:40] <mfa298> craag: sounds about right (It's those letters and numbers, I struggle with remembering the order)
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[15:41] <steve____> I was looking on the UKHAS wiki and I see that there are some recommendations
[15:41] <steve____> but its not there
[15:41] <eroomde> i don;t know if anyone has experience with it
[15:41] <mfa298> steve____: it works but it doesn't seem to be as sensitive as the FT817 or FCD+
[15:41] <eroomde> i looked at it iirc
[15:41] <eroomde> but i can't remember why i didn't go for it
[15:41] <eroomde> it might have been a bit deaf compared to a proper ham rig
[15:41] <steve____> being a newbie cost is a factor for me
[15:42] <eroomde> tbh i would either go the sdr route or get a decent mobile (rather than handheld) ham rig
[15:42] <steve____> I dont want to spend £500 on a radio
[15:42] <eroomde> sdr then
[15:42] <eroomde> £25
[15:42] <mfa298> I've heard payloads with my one before even when using the rubber duck that comes with it although I've not tried using it to decode
[15:42] <eroomde> ah righ6t craag has one
[15:42] <eroomde> i will defer
[15:42] <eroomde> not craag, mfa298
[15:42] <eroomde> talk to him
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[15:43] <steve____> I do want to consider launching my own payload at some point though so I want something that I can use to track it
[15:43] <mfa298> steve____: I've not done a proper comparison yet with trying to actually recieve data but it's probably comparable to the rtl-sdr I've got (E4000 based)
[15:44] <steve____> Obviously there will be limitations
[15:44] <steve____> I guess ideally I should go for the recommended Yaesu FT-790R
[15:44] <Babs> eroomde - Anthony pointed me in the direction of it https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/3Ring_release_animation.gif
[15:44] <mfa298> Depending on how much money you want to spend and what performance you want it could be an option.
[15:44] <steve____> but I suspect they are limited availability
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[15:45] <mfa298> One of the cheapest options if you want a good performance reciever is the FCD+
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[15:45] <Babs> Still needs something to pull a pin but if you had the pin spring loaded and combined it with something similar to your arrangement it could work
[15:45] <Babs> I think Anthony actually has one built and shown on youtube but I might have this completely wrong
[15:47] <mfa298> a mobile or handheld reciever can be useful when you're trying to direction find the payload when you're close to it as they're easy to carry. SDR's require a computer/laptop so aren't so portable when scrambling through woods.
[15:48] <steve____> I thin the TH-F7E is portable
[15:48] <craag> Yeah, there is a great convenience trade-off with SDRs versus more expensive real ham rigs.
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[15:49] <mfa298> steve____: the TH-F7E is very portable.
[15:49] <eroomde> that looks more design for humans :)
[15:49] <steve____> I am happy with the laptop as I am considering GMS for wood scambling
[15:49] <mfa298> it's a small hand held reciever.
[15:50] <steve____> I was concerned with two things
[15:50] <steve____> 1) The size - is it going to be powerful enough
[15:50] <steve____> and 2) the brand - others dont seem to be using it
[15:51] <steve____> although I am pleased that people here have considered it and are aware of its capabilities
[15:51] <mfa298> I'd say the TH-F7E is a reasonable reciever but not as sensitive as some of the slightly larger recievers - although you could add a hab amp which would likely help.
[15:52] <steve____> being a newbie I dont need the best - just looking to a) track other peoples payloads initially and then hopefully use it to track my own
[15:52] Action: mfa298 thinks that next time there's a suitable flight he might have to do a FT817/TH-F7E/FCD+ comparison.
[15:53] <HixWork> Babs, Isn't that a main parachute cutaway system
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[15:53] <Babs> yes, I think its a standard parachute deployment for sky divers. Most of them land ok so I guess its had a lot of field testing...more than any other mech anyway
[15:54] <Babs> hixwork..hmmm, don't know. I presume it was the mech to release the flap containing the parachute but I could be very wrong
[15:54] <mfa298> steve____: if you want something really cheap that works at home (with a decent antenna) then the cheapest option is the rtl-sdr (e.g. one of these https://www.cosycave.co.uk/category.php?id_category=60)
[15:54] <HixWork> you could have a loop of fishing line holding the top loop in place, nichrome to burn that and then the rest is free to fall away
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[15:55] <HixWork> i think the system is to cut away the main chute before deploying the reserve, but i'm a but rusty on them
[15:55] <HixWork> Yay http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-ring_release_system
[15:57] <HixWork> steve____, I used this on sunday http://goo.gl/AMsmQ
[15:57] <HixWork> it was better than my AR8000
[15:58] <HixWork> bu tthat is a p.o.s after someone tried to hack it before selling it on to me, still it proved, very good compared to my pervious tracking
[15:59] <mfa298> for recieve only there's also the MVT-7100 of which there are usually several on ebay (I'm not sure how they match the good rigs for sensitivity though)
[15:59] <Babs> hixwork - looks like you are right
[15:59] <HixWork> I was fairly sure i remembered that bit having hoped never to rely on it
[15:59] <HixWork> but not 100%
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[16:00] <HixWork> is this for your EOS recovery system?
[16:00] <steve____> Ok - thanks for the recommendation, they dont mention 430MHz or SSB at all
[16:01] <HixWork> steve____, http://i.imgur.com/m7xrdF2.png
[16:01] <HixWork> Last Sun SDEAN launch
[16:01] <mfa298> often the scanners (like the MVT-7100 and the AOR8000 cover large ranges of frequencies), the SDR dongles are often similar
[16:02] <mfa298> I think the E4000 is something like 60MHz -> 2200MHz
[16:02] <steve____> cool
[16:02] <steve____> thats is certainly what I am after
[16:02] <mfa298> (E4000 being one of the rtl-sdr tuner chips)
[16:02] <jonsowman> can you still get them?
[16:03] <jonsowman> they went out of business a while back
[16:03] Nick change: staylo_ -> staylo
[16:03] <jonsowman> impossible to find e4k based rtls these days i thought
[16:03] <mfa298> cosycave seems to have a range of them.
[16:04] <jonsowman> interesting
[16:04] <jonsowman> maybe someone found a batch of them in a shed somewhere
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[16:04] <HixWork> jonsowman, http://i.imgur.com/tnNTTLY.jpg
[16:05] <jonsowman> very odd
[16:05] <jonsowman> a while back nobody could source any
[16:05] <jonsowman> must have found some old stock
[16:05] <steve____> would I be able to plug it in to my terrestrial antenna and expect to be able to track balloons or should I look for a better alternative :)
[16:05] <jonsowman> i got one a long time ago which is e4k based
[16:06] <arko> mornin
[16:06] <jonsowman> o/
[16:06] <craag> steve____: You should get/make an antenna for 434MHz.
[16:06] <HixWork> best result I've has so far http://i.imgur.com/yqPmE1w.png
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[16:09] <HixWork> steve____, http://stratosvision.com/docs/Mountain_Yagi_434_4Element.pdf
[16:10] <mfa298> TH-F7E (and TS-2000) are now on the wiki for future reference.
[16:11] <steve____> yes I saw that the home made yagi this morning
[16:11] <craag> steve____: A simple omnidirectional antenna such as a dipole or a collinear is a good one to start with for tracking other people's flights.
[16:11] <steve____> I think thats a better idea
[16:11] <craag> You don't have to point it the whole time :)
[16:11] <steve____> I dont want to be waving it around
[16:12] <craag> A yagi is a good idea for when you do your own flight/recovery though.
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[16:13] <steve____> excellent
[16:13] <steve____> well thanks for your advice
[16:14] <steve____> Ordering a https://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=267 now and will see if I cant start tracking
[16:14] <craag> :)
[16:15] <craag> Where are you located?
[16:16] <steve____> In Camberley UK
[16:17] <craag> Nicely placed, you shouldn't have a problem tracking any UK flights.
[16:17] <steve____> excellent
[16:18] <steve____> not considered radio as a hobby before
[16:19] <steve____> but I do like the idea of high altitude ballooning and I guess I need to learn this stuff to be able to track
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[16:19] <craag> Tracking is really quite simple, just a basic understanding of antennas is helpful
[16:20] <craag> Most of the rest of it is operating the dl-fldigi software
[16:20] <steve____> yeah I have downloaded that and read the guides
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[16:20] <steve____> how do you register a payload
[16:20] <craag> Well there'll be plenty of people on here during any flights, happy to help out.
[16:21] <craag> We have a database on habitat.habhub.org
[16:21] <craag> You create a 'Payload Doc' on http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[16:21] <steve____> a cool :)
[16:22] <craag> Then it knows how to interpret your telemetry data, and puts the position on spacenear.us/tracker
[16:22] <WILLdude> Yoyoyo.
[16:22] <steve____> yeah I saw that - its a nice way to collaborate
[16:23] <steve____> much better than going it alone
[16:23] <craag> A 'Flight Doc' then adds autoconfigure for your shift/data rate parameters to dl-fldigi on the day so other people can set it up easily.
[16:25] <steve____> I have another question if you all dont mind
[16:25] <craag> Shoot :)
[16:25] <mfa298> steve____: ask away, questions are encouraged!
[16:26] <steve____> how can you prevent a lot of other noise on the same frequency
[16:26] <steve____> I mean it would be bad news if you couldnt get your data because of too much other traffic
[16:27] <mfa298> to some extent you can't, but that's where the distributed set of listeners helps.
[16:27] <mfa298> most interference it fairly local (things like remote weather station sensors, car keyfobs) so only affects one or two people at a time
[16:28] <craag> The ISM band isn't very busy really, and what other traffic there is, is terrestrial so not everyone will be affected.
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[16:28] <mfa298> with the more adanced recievers (and the sdrs) you can often apply filtering as well to reduce some of the interference.
[16:30] <steve____> what did you all do before dl-fldigi then - just accept the noise - I guess that would have been a problem for data payloads
[16:31] <WILLdude> Hi chrisstubbs
[16:31] <chrisstubbs> afternoon
[16:32] <mfa298> steve____: I was into radio before HAB so you tend to work around interference or filter it out on the radio. If you can't you find a new frequency.
[16:33] <steve____> its quite a wide range of skills need to fly - I like the idea
[16:34] <steve____> I have a computer background and have recently picked up electronics
[16:34] <WILLdude> WILLdude
[16:34] <WILLdude> Test.
[16:34] <craag> Most of the data-critical payloads will save it on board (eg on an sd card), so you just need enough position data to recover the payload on the ground.
[16:34] <mfa298> But that's not so easy to do when the transmitter is a few km up in the air. But in general I've not found interferrence to be much of an issue. The odd times people have had issues it's usually only affected them or it only affects them for short periods.
[16:35] <WILLdude> Can anyone write a message saying "WILLdude: something" ?
[16:35] <WILLdude> I wanna test my bleep
[16:35] <craag> steve____: It's a fun challenge!
[16:35] <craag> WILLdude: boo
[16:35] <WILLdude> Do it again.
[16:35] <craag> WILLdude: BOO!
[16:35] <WILLdude> Cool.
[16:35] <WILLdude> Pm me plz?
[16:36] <WILLdude> Just as test.
[16:36] <craag> done
[16:36] <WILLdude> Shoot.
[16:36] <craag> oh
[16:36] <craag> wrong willdude
[16:36] <WILLdude> Now I've got it.
[16:36] <WILLdude> So cool.
[16:36] <steve____> the problem on saving the data on board is you cant guarantee getting it back
[16:37] <eroomde> do both
[16:37] <steve____> I guess that is why a lot of people send data in flight
[16:37] <eroomde> you can save much more interesting stuff onboard
[16:37] <craag> It's also nice to have a live feed :)
[16:37] <steve____> of course
[16:37] <eroomde> and just send back the essentials
[16:38] <steve____> I think sending back pictures is part of the fun
[16:38] <steve____> not essential I know but it does add something to it
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[16:39] <mfa298> A decent proportion of the payloads with radio telemetry on board get recovered and most of the others it's known where they landed (usually in a tree or the sea). It the people that rely on SMS who have more issues with recovery.
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[16:46] <arko> hmm
[16:46] <griffonbot> Received email: Geoff Mather "[UKHAS] Re: STRATODEAN Launch 10am 21/04/13 from Coleford, Forest of
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[16:47] <arko> i think i'm gonna make a 144Mhz filter
[16:47] <arko> the front end on these RTL are painful to work with
[16:48] <Babs> hixwork - sorry, was in a meeting
[16:48] <Babs> yes, just looking at some redundancy for keeping everything out of the north sea
[16:49] <Babs> could overfill and get it up and down quickly, but then it reduces the ability to obtain 00s or potentially 000s of photos if you are up there near a; for a shorter amount of time
[16:49] <Babs> could overfill and get it up and down quickly, but then it reduces the ability to obtain 00s or potentially 000s of photos if you are up there near apogee for a shorter amount of time
[16:49] <Babs> so wanted a standard fill, but with a cutdown just in case it did the floaty floaty thang
[16:50] <Babs> I have pyros built, but am too late to test my geofence code cycling around London with an on-off buzzer in my rucksack
[16:52] <Babs> Notwithstanding the fact that big rucksacks with buzzers that come on intermittently don't exactly have much good PR at the present time
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[17:17] <x-f> hah, true though
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[18:34] <WILLdude> Urgh.
[18:34] <WILLdude> I'm bored.
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[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> today http://s.gullipics.com/image/n/3/y/5yvanf-ko8bpo-l3wp/IMG0049.jpeg
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:42] S_Mark (~S_Mark@212-139-122-79.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> hello S_Mark
[18:42] <S_Mark> Hey Lunar_lander
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[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> how are you today?
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[18:43] <S_Mark> Yeah good thank you. Finally have an even on which to start lookinhg through
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:44] <S_Mark> looking through the pics and vids from the weekend
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> glad to be able to speak to you before undergoing surgery tomorrow
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> and then you all will have holidays from me until next week
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:44] <S_Mark> Oh dear, nothing serious I hope
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> no, just a spot on the back that is bugging me
[18:45] <S_Mark> Ah ok, can you take a laptop in help your recovery :p
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> ah I only got my desktop PC
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> I got an old IBM ThinkPad T23 at uni
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> which is really just for programming arduinos and stuff
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> and tracking
[18:46] <S_Mark> I have only just invested in a laptop
[18:46] <S_Mark> has a desktop the whole time since
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:47] <S_Mark> Hopefully when you come back out there should be a write up waiting!
[18:47] <S_Mark> With associated pics and vids
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> today http://s.gullipics.com/image/n/3/y/5yvanf-ko8bpo-l3wp/IMG0049.jpeg
[18:50] <HixPad> chrisstubbs: Seen this beauty? http://lowpowerlab.com/blog/2013/02/11/diy-smd-metal-stencils-the-definitive-tutorial/
[18:52] <HixPad> fsphil: Any joy with the nests?
[18:57] <S_Mark> Hix that looks brill, a lot of steps though
[18:58] <HixPad> It's excellent, especially since hackvana announced no more stencils
[18:59] <S_Mark> So they used to do this and sell it did they?
[18:59] <HixPad> Got pics and vids up yet S_Mark
[18:59] <HixPad> God no, hackvana was proper pro stuff
[19:00] <HixPad> But no more stencils, only pcbs for now. Btw do it he's a great guy and so cheap
[19:00] <S_Mark> No sorry not yet, been out both Monday and last night, tonight is the first evening and have started to prep them. What do people use for online galleries? Picasa web allows 1000 images in a gallery. Flickr has good stuff but dont really wanna pay
[19:00] <S_Mark> Most of our blog pictures are already on picasa
[19:00] <S_Mark> What about the merging with Google+
[19:00] <HixPad> Imgur ftw
[19:01] <S_Mark> for galleries too?
[19:01] <HixPad> You can create galleries yeah
[19:01] <S_Mark> whats the storage space
[19:01] <HixPad> Sure you can batch upload too
[19:01] <HixPad> Think unlimited
[19:01] <HixPad> Anyone advise otherwise?
[19:03] <HixPad> Oh, hang on. You can set up sugarsync or Microsoft drive, or whatever they call it. Gives you ~5Gb
[19:03] <S_Mark> ok will look into it. quiet on here tonight?\
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> no one commented on the photo I took
[19:04] <S_Mark> Sorry Lunar_Lander - looks good, weird clouds±
[19:04] <S_Mark> !
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[19:04] <HixPad> Think it's the warm weather, why be in and on irc in the few days of niceness we get :)
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> I am forced to stay inside
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> as explained above
[19:04] <S_Mark> cloudy and grey here
[19:05] <HixPad> Missed that Lunar_Lander
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> ah surgery tomorrow
[19:05] <HixPad> Oh, nothing major?
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> no, just a spot on my back that has to be removed
[19:05] <Upu> is it called Kevin ?
[19:05] <Upu> baaah dum
[19:06] <HixPad> Heh
[19:06] <HixPad> Upu: Did you see the coke can SMd link?
[19:06] <Upu> yeah I think I'll just get them from mitch :)
[19:07] <HixPad> He's quit stencils
[19:07] <Upu> he has ? How come ?
[19:07] <HixPad> Fab was being a shit
[19:07] <HixPad> Bummer
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[19:08] <HixPad> Found smtstencils.co.uk
[19:08] <HixPad> Ah singular
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[19:09] <S_Mark> brb
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[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> wb
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5599125/ if anyone would like to have a look
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> did I make the big mistake of having programmed a 10 second on/off cycle?
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. switch on for 10 sec and switch off for 10 sec?
[19:19] <fsphil> HixPad: they've been in most mornings, except today oddly
[19:20] <lz1dev> Lunar_Lander: how offen do you call cutdown_check()?
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> every time the loop runs
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> and the loop takes some 22 seconds due to the 50 baud transmission
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[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:33] <lz1dev> looks good, but im not sure about it being able to be on a second time
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[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> lz1dev, hm
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> when I once programmed in a hardcoded altitude it like cycled on and off
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[19:54] <lz1dev> it might do, if somehow the balloon got way over 20km
[19:54] <WILLdude> Hi guys, and fsphil.
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> well the code must have worked on the march 5 flight
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[19:56] <WILLdude> Lunar_Lander: I read that as mach 5 then
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[19:59] <lz1dev> Lunar_Lander: its solide code, it will try cutdown multiple times, and makes sure it switched off
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> I know that
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> I tested it
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> but currently we are thinking about why it took more than 500 m to initiate descent
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> (in the final code, 22000 m was in as the condition)
[20:01] <lz1dev> perhaps it didnt work the first time or the gps was inaccurate
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[20:03] <LokisSword> evening all :)
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> but when I look at it
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[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> I think it turns on the MOSFET for 10 seconds and then switches it off for 10 seconds
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> then repeats
[20:03] <lz1dev> if you call it every 22s
[20:04] <lz1dev> it switches it for 22s and then off for 22s
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> well as you see it has these millis functions
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> and as far as I was aware, that timing is independent of the main loop
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. instead of using delays
[20:05] <lz1dev> technically, if you call the function once over 20km
[20:05] <lz1dev> and never again, the mosfet will be forever on
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:07] <lz1dev> the interval at which you call the check function dictates how long the mosfet is on
[20:07] <lz1dev> unless that interval is less than 10s
[20:08] <WILLdude> URRGH.
[20:08] <WILLdude> I'm so bored.
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> hm ok
[20:08] <WILLdude> I tried to start a machine learning course, then I realized I have no clue about any of the maths.
[20:09] <WILLdude> I tried to start a CS course then I realized I got too frustrated.
[20:09] <WILLdude> I tried to start a Maths course and then I realized I was shit at maths.
[20:09] <WILLdude> Urgh.
[20:11] <mfa298> WILLdude: you need to take small steps. It may also be worth not trying Uni courses (assuming that's what you've been looking at) as you won't necessarily have the levels you need below that yet (especially for maths)
[20:11] <WILLdude> I don't think they were uni coursers.
[20:11] <WILLdude> Hmm.
[20:11] <WILLdude> I have no clue where to start.
[20:11] <WILLdude> Algebra with udacity might be okay.
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[20:12] <mfa298> if you want to learn to programme then it might be worth trying a C in 21 days type book or find something for python and just try writing code on window/linux/pi (and ignore the UBlox and NTX for now)
[20:12] <griffonbot> Received email: Alex Proffitt "[UKHAS] Re: STRATODEAN Launch 10am 21/04/13 from Coleford, Forest of
[20:12] <WILLdude> Hmm...
[20:12] <WILLdude> I can do python reasonably well.
[20:12] <WILLdude> Hmm.
[20:13] <LokisSword> ^^ I post a comment on mailing list it shows up here? Oh :D
[20:13] <fsphil> we see all
[20:13] <LokisSword> it seems so
[20:13] <fsphil> well, unless it's cloudy
[20:14] <fsphil> there was a small but greater than zero chance of an aurora tonight, so naturally it's clouded over
[20:14] <LokisSword> Roll on Friday and payday - time to invest in some hab kit
[20:15] <WILLdude> It's made me realize I'm shit at everything.
[20:15] <mfa298> WILLdude: if you're fairly happy with python try reading up on Finite State Machines (and see if you can write one in python). You'll find that this should help understand the processes you'll need for a lot of low level programming.
[20:15] <LokisSword> isn't that the truth, I bought my daughter a telescope for christmas and had very little chance to use it so far
[20:16] <fsphil> ah so it's your fault :)
[20:16] <Brace> WILLdude: the only way to get better (in anything in life) is to do more of it, so get practising!
[20:16] <mfa298> One simple FSM could be to parse a log file.
[20:16] <WILLdude> The thing is I'm shit at practicing.
[20:16] <fsphil> not so bad as swearing though
[20:16] <fsphil> at*
[20:17] <WILLdude> Sorry.
[20:17] <mfa298> the best advice I can give for practicing is to set a goal that you can achieve fairly easily.
[20:17] <LokisSword> I second mfa298's comment on getting a C in 21 days type book, the examples are always pretty dry but the content it pretty good
[20:17] <fsphil> I was rubbish at programming for years. still am in many ways :)
[20:17] <mfa298> If the goal is too hard it will take a long time to see any progress which can be very fraustrating.
[20:18] <LokisSword> I've got a SAMS one from a good few years ago and it's very good
[20:18] <WILLdude> Err.
[20:18] <WILLdude> Hmm.
[20:18] <mfa298> I think I started off with C and C++ using SAMS books - and their still on the shelf
[20:19] <mfa298> With a lot of projects I also find having a decent amount of space to work and lots of paper helps. A lot of my code/electronics starts off as scribbles on bits of paper with details of how I want it to operate and what data I need.
[20:20] <Brace> SMART - Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Realistic, Timely - your motto for goal setting
[20:21] <LokisSword> seconded - I've just built myself a 3m long desk to use for hobby projects / radio gear... PC right there but I still tend to do most brainstorming where I really break the problem down on paper
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> there is a train model called FLIRT - Fast, Light, Innovative Regional Train
[20:22] <mfa298> looking in my folder of notes I've got about 12 pages of scribbles for a tracker payload and I've not even ordered parts yet. I've also got 4-5 pages of scribbles for a webapp I want to write and I've not touched a computer to start writing any of it yet.
[20:23] <WILLdude> Fft.
[20:24] <fsphil> I tend to use gedit for notes
[20:24] <fsphil> my desk is far too small though
[20:24] <fsphil> or I need more shelves
[20:24] <jonsowman> problems solved ^
[20:25] <mfa298> WILLdude: If by fft you're thinking of Fast Fourier Transforms then that's probably something to stay away from for now.
[20:25] <LokisSword> ;)
[20:25] <WILLdude> I WAST THINKING MORE OF FOOFT
[20:25] <WILLdude> Sorry
[20:25] <fsphil> the fast means time to madness
[20:25] <mfa298> fsphil: my desk is fairly small, but I've found the floor can make a good extension for notes
[20:25] <WILLdude> I was thinking of a fooft sound.
[20:26] <fsphil> hehe mfa298. I used to keep stuff on the floor but I hate not being able to move the chair
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[20:26] <LokisSword> WILLdude: what are you trying to achieve, what hardware are you using and what prior experience do you have?
[20:27] <mfa298> WILLdude: I suspected that was the case but just wanted to make sure. I'm still not sure I understand how fourier works (I just know it does and havn't had to worry about it for 10 years)
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[20:47] <griffonbot> Received email: Geoff Mather "[UKHAS] Re: STRATODEAN Launch 10am 21/04/13 from Coleford, Forest of
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[20:53] <SP9UOB_Tom> evening all
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> hi SP9UOB_Tom
[20:53] <SP9UOB_Tom> hi Lunar_Lander
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> everything good?
[20:54] <SP9UOB_Tom> in fact no - i got sick :-(
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> get well soon!
[20:55] <SP9UOB_Tom> hope so - thanks :-)
[20:56] <SP9UOB_Tom> i hope so antibiotics will do the job :-)
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[21:10] <griffonbot> Received email: STRATODEAN "[UKHAS] Re: STRATODEAN Launch 10am 21/04/13 from Coleford, Forest of
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[21:39] <eroomde> whadup
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[21:44] <Willdude123> eroomde:Me?
[21:44] <eroomde> you are iup?
[21:44] <Willdude123> Iup?
[21:50] <natrium42> eroomde: kan u spel?
[21:51] <eroomde> noe
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[22:06] <lz1dev> :3
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[22:13] <fsphil> is back 2 normaal?
[22:16] <arko> wut
[22:18] <fsphil> grammer and spelling seemed to abandon the channel briefly
[22:19] <mfa298> has spelling ever found this channel ?
[22:20] <fsphil> oh yes, but but it was beaten away with a big stick
[22:21] <fsphil> one less but needed there
[22:22] <lz1dev> eP‡ PyÝ Žon ‡Plž1uƒ Pqon‡¿
[22:23] <fsphil> ¢øøB
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[22:35] <nigelvh> Afternoon spelling bee champions!
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[00:00] --- Thu Apr 25 2013