highaltitude.log.20130423

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[00:01] <arko> woah cool
[00:01] <arko> just heard the nasa phonesat's
[00:02] <arko> one of the Antares's payloads
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[00:02] <nigelvh> phonesat/
[00:02] <nigelvh> ?*
[00:03] <arko> phonesat.org
[00:03] <arko> launched yesterday
[00:06] <nigelvh> Ah, interesting. I'll have to leave my radio tuned there.
[00:07] <nigelvh> Anything special to uplink the packets, or do they just expect you to copy/paste them to their web site?
[00:08] <arko> i think it's copy/pasta
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[00:15] <nigelvh> It would be easier if they were prepared to just have people tune igates to that freq and let the packets flow in over the internet.
[00:16] <arko> lol
[00:16] <arko> i wish
[00:17] <nigelvh> It would be especially easy for me because I normally have an igate running, so it would just be changing the freq.
[00:19] <nigelvh> Oh well..
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[00:24] <nigelvh> Alright, station set up. Now to wait for the next pass.
[00:24] <arko> :)
[00:24] <arko> going to drive up a mountain tomorrow to get all three of them
[00:24] <arko> i have 3 radios, so might as well
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[00:25] <nigelvh> Why do you need three radios?
[00:25] <nigelvh> From what I can see they all use the same freq.
[00:26] <arko> oh
[00:26] <arko> this last pass they were all different
[00:26] <arko> at least thats what the chart told me
[00:26] <arko> crap
[00:26] <nigelvh> Well, they'll be slightly off due to doppler
[00:26] <nigelvh> but in theory they're all on the same freq, just transmitting at different times.
[00:26] <arko> well yeah, but it seems they are all tuned to 437.435 or whatever
[00:27] <arko> ah just realized
[00:27] <arko> derp
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[00:32] <nigelvh> I have to admit, I find their site somewhat lacking in info.
[00:34] <nigelvh> Especially when compared to ARISSAT
[00:34] <nigelvh> http://www.arissat1.org/v3/
[00:34] <nigelvh> Though ARISSAT burned up months ago.
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[00:37] <K9JKM> Kewl ... folks are still looking at that stuff ... I wrote the arissat releases
[00:38] <nigelvh> I really enjoyed ARISSAT. I ran the software and recieved a number of packets, as well as got three rather noisy SSTV images.
[00:38] <K9JKM> Yeah, it was fun
[00:38] <nigelvh> I was impressed by the 1kbpsk
[00:38] <nigelvh> Worked a lot better than I imagined.
[00:38] <K9JKM> That morse code detector also works on decoding shortwave morse code
[00:41] <K9JKM> That 1kbpsk includes the forward error correction algorithms that amsat first tested on AO-40 satellite but first tests were 400 bps
[00:42] <K9JKM> I used to be able to receive good signals on 2 GHz downlink when AO-40 was 50km away
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[00:43] <nigelvh> I don't have any gear up that high, but satellite operations are always facinating.
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[00:43] <nigelvh> Especially that it's within reach of amateur groups to put something like this together and up in orbit.
[00:44] <K9JKM> The next time there is a 2GHz ham downlink (nothing up there now) those microwave TV downconverters are available for around $20 US
[00:45] <nigelvh> I have a 1.2GHz TV downconverter.
[00:45] <K9JKM> My downcoverter cost $30 cuz I bought a pre-converted one that moved the IF frequency into the 144 MHz amateur radio band ... then used all mode VHF rig to copy it
[00:46] <K9JKM> I bet some of these up and coming USB dongles may be useful for that in the future
[00:47] <nigelvh> I'd bet they will.
[00:47] <K9JKM> I bought one of the RTL usb receivers and got it running with SDR# but haven't had any time to get back to it
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[00:48] <K9JKM> I think its a hoot hearing the signal and seeing the waterfall image at the same time ... but I'm a geek
[00:48] <nigelvh> The SDR's are something I keep planning to play with and have yet failed to actually do so. I've got enough "real" equipment that covers most of my needs.
[00:49] <K9JKM> I'm mostly still using real radios too
[00:50] <K9JKM> I couldn't justify $200 US for the FUNcube dongle so I took the cheap route to see what I could see
[00:50] <nigelvh> Also, amsat's page seems to be pretty messed up.
[00:50] <K9JKM> Very messed up
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[00:50] <K9JKM> Only thing that shows is some test posts with "news"
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[00:51] <K9JKM> http://amsat-uk.org/ is probably the better place at the moment for ham radio in space
[00:53] <nigelvh> Yes, it appears decidedly less messed up.
[00:54] <nigelvh> At some point here I also need to make a little effort into making a contact with the ISS.
[00:54] <K9JKM> RSGB added a new toy also ... websdr receiver at http://rsgbbeta.org/myrsgb/web-sdr-receiver/
[00:55] <K9JKM> I'm getting ready to transmit to ISS in a minute or so ... QTH is Chicago area
[00:55] <nigelvh> I'm in Seattle, so a little off.
[00:56] <K9JKM> Its over Winnipeg or so at the moment
[00:56] <nigelvh> Probably not the greatest point for me. But the next pass looks promising.
[00:59] <K9JKM> Got my CQ thru ...
[00:59] <K9JKM> K9JKM]CQ,RS0ISS*,qAR,K8OE:=4211.29N/08827.08W-Greetings
[00:59] <K9JKM> No one replied yet
[00:59] <nigelvh> Nice
[01:11] <nigelvh> Get anything?
[01:11] <codrBlu> Once I build an APRS transmitter for my balloon, what is the best way to test it without upsetting any HAMs in my neighborhood? Do I just lower the power so it doesn't leave the lab, put a tiny antenna on it, or do I need to put it in a metal box?
[01:12] <K9JKM> Many put a 50 ohm resistor on the antenna output
[01:12] <nigelvh> Yes.
[01:13] <codrBlu> Understood. Thanks.
[01:13] <nigelvh> Also, PLEASE PLEASE be sure to set an appropriate path for APRS. At MAXIMUM use WIDE2-1
[01:13] <nigelvh> NOT WIDE1-1, and preferably no path at all.
[01:13] <K9JKM> But the resistor needs to be rated for your transmitter power ... if you output 1 watt then your resistor should be 1 watt ... and carbon composition because wire wound resistors are inductors at radio frequencies
[01:15] <K9JKM> I have 3 - 150 ohm 1 -watt resistors soldered in parallel for a test load on my 5W handheld ... 5 watts out of the radio so I can only send test transmissions lasting 10 seconds or so
[01:15] <K9JKM> Resistors get warm but don't burn up
[01:16] <codrBlu> So the resistors reduce your 5W to what?
[01:17] <nigelvh> They don't. They present a load for your transmitter. If you run a transmitter without a load, you're likely to damage it.
[01:18] <K9JKM> What is going on is that I'm cheating a bit ... I am transmitting 5 watts into three 1 watt resistors ...
[01:19] <K9JKM> But they fit conveniently soldered into an antenna connector where you would normally solder the coax cable to
[01:19] <K9JKM> Since it is underated I cannot transmit long into the load
[01:19] <codrBlu> So putting a resistor on the output doesn't reduce the range of my transmission?
[01:19] <K9JKM> I can transmit long enough to read the power meter, etc.
[01:20] <nigelvh> Yes it does, because the resistor does not make a good antenna.
[01:20] <K9JKM> Yeah, resistor is a sucky antenna but it is still 50 ohm load on the transmitter
[01:20] <K9JKM> You can still likely hear thru the resistor for a couple hundred feet
[01:21] <K9JKM> At least everyone won't hear you testing
[01:21] <codrBlu> Ah. Your limit of 10 seconds is because you could burn out the radio or the load?
[01:21] <nigelvh> The load.
[01:21] <nigelvh> His resistors are not rated for 5W of power, so he reduces the time he spends transmitting.
[01:22] <codrBlu> Got is. So if I have a 300mW transmitter and I use a 50 ohm 300mW resister, I can transmit all day at the reduced range?
[01:22] <K9JKM> Test transmissions for me are usually short anyways ... like when I hook up a power meter
[01:23] <K9JKM> Standard resistor ratings are usually like one-quarter, one-half, one watt
[01:23] <nigelvh> In summary, yes. In practice, it's best to rate your resistors a bit higher, so if you have 300mW transmitter, then a 1/2W or 1W resistor would be appropriate.
[01:23] <K9JKM> So if you get a one watt or half-watt resistor it should be good
[01:23] <codrBlu> Cool.
[01:24] <K9JKM> 300mW into a 50 ohm resistor won't go far at all
[01:24] <codrBlu> Thanks for the help, and I will definitely do more research into path settings so I understand your recommendations.
[01:25] <nigelvh> Thank you. APRS is very sensitive to path settings, and the wider your path the load on the APRS network goes up exponentially.
[01:26] <K9JKM> Is your APRS transmitter on a fixed frequency like 144.390 or can it be tuned?
[01:26] <nigelvh> Random guess I'd say it's an HX1 and can only do 144.39
[01:26] <K9JKM> OK, probably be safe with the 50 ohm resistor
[01:26] <codrBlu> It will likely be a Radiomentrix 144.39 fixed. Hopefully the only radio receiving my APRS signal will be the one on my bench.
[01:27] <nigelvh> With a resistor on the output, I'm sure it will be fine for testing.
[01:28] <nigelvh> codrBlu, also, when ordering your HX1, make sure to ask for the HX1-144.390-10, not the HX1-144.390-3
[01:29] <codrBlu> Ah. Ok. Wasn't aware of those different part numbers. Thanks.
[01:29] <nigelvh> They are essentially the same, but the -3 model is a narrower bandwidth and the -10 works better.
[01:30] <nigelvh> Same price, just a different option.
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[01:33] <nigelvh> also just to confirm codrBlu, what country you in?
[01:33] <codrBlu> U.S.
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[01:33] <nigelvh> Ok, then you're all good
[01:33] <nigelvh> I just ask because most people on here are in the UK, and ham radio isn't allowed in the air in the UK.
[01:34] <codrBlu> Right. I have seen that. Do most people do direct to ground transmissions then?
[01:35] <nigelvh> The guys in the UK use what's known as the ISM band. It's where things like wireless weather stations and car key fobs operate. Then they have a bunch of people listening and combine all the recieved data.
[01:35] <codrBlu> A bunch of people holding directional antennas?
[01:36] <nigelvh> No, mostly it's just people with vertical antennas on their houses.
[01:36] <K9JKM> Gotta trot ... 73
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[01:37] <codrBlu> Oh! So HAMs use their existing antennas or special ISM antennas on their towers to receive these non-HAM signals?
[01:37] <nigelvh> Yep
[01:38] <nigelvh> Conveniently, one of the ISM bands sits in the middle of the ham 70cm band, so existing ham antennas work well.
[01:38] <codrBlu> That's pretty awesome. Do they do APRS-like digital telemetry over this ISM signal?
[01:38] <nigelvh> Yes, they use the RTTY protocol mostly, but it is a digital protocol like APRS.
[01:39] <codrBlu> Wow. I have so much to learn. So excited.
[01:40] <nigelvh> When did you get your ham license?
[01:41] <codrBlu> Hopefully getting it next weekend. :-)
[01:42] <nigelvh> Good luck. If you've studied with the online tests, the technician class should not be a problem.
[01:42] <codrBlu> Yeah. It's mostly the regulations I'm boning up on. I got my degree in electronics engineering so most of that is coming back to me.
[01:43] <nigelvh> Most of the regulations are common sense things. Like "How far away from power lines should you build your tower?" "Far enough away that if it falls over the tower won't hit them."
[01:43] <codrBlu> lol
[01:46] <nigelvh> In summary, the online tests are very helpful, but it shouldn't be a big deal to get the technician.
[01:47] <codrBlu> Cool. I'm hoping that once the radio is built, I can find a local HAM who will listen for my APRS signal with the load on to verify it is behaving properly.
[01:47] <codrBlu> Maybe take it to a local HAM club.
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[01:48] <nigelvh> Well, if you've got a load on it, you're going to need to be pretty close to the reciever. A ham club meeting would be a good option.
[01:48] <nigelvh> Keep in mind to warn them ahead of time so they can bring a laptop or something to make sure your packet actually decodes properly.
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[01:49] <codrBlu> Ah. Good idea on the call-ahead.
[01:50] <nigelvh> What part of the country are you in? I'm up in Washington (Seattle)
[01:50] <codrBlu> I'm over in Ohio.
[01:51] <nigelvh> Hmm, I don't know much about how much ham activity is in ohio.
[01:51] <nigelvh> I'm sure you'll be able to find a group reasonably close to you.
[01:52] <codrBlu> Yeah. I have been concentrating on the flight computer design and getting my license. I need to start getting to know the community.
[01:54] <nigelvh> The community can be very helpful to you. Especially on flight day. If you let them know you'll be flying, I'm sure many of them would be interested in keeping their radios tuned to your balloon to pick up the telemetry.
[01:55] <codrBlu> Do people need to turn on/tune in their APRS or is it usually an always on, always listening sort of thing?
[01:56] <nigelvh> Depends on the person. I have an APRS digipeater that I run at my house that's always on, but most people probably don't.
[01:56] <nigelvh> Appologies, I have an igate, not a digipeater.
[01:57] <codrBlu> I see. If they are going to be listening, for fun, could I transmit a short recorded piece of audio, like me saying "hello", in between telemetry transmissions, or is 144.390Mhz APRS digital only?
[01:58] <Darkside> digital only
[01:58] <nigelvh> Generally it's digital only.
[01:58] <Darkside> noone will be listening to the raw aydio
[01:58] <codrBlu> Got it.
[01:58] <Darkside> it'll all be going into modems
[01:58] <Darkside> APRS isn't that nice to listen to for long periods
[01:58] <codrBlu> Heh. Kinda like listening to a dialup modem.
[01:59] <Darkside> yeah, kind of
[02:05] <codrBlu> Anyone have an upcoming flight?
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[03:16] <heathkid> depends....
[03:17] <heathkid> what's the smallest and cheapest way to do video?
[03:18] <heathkid> I could do a pico tomorrow... but have a Kaymont 1500 just beggin' for a launch! :)
[03:19] <heathkid> USA... <4 lbs. no problem (no NOTAM required)... right?
[03:19] <heathkid> but I'd like video
[03:19] <codrBlu> I would still file a NOTAM as a courtesy.
[03:19] <heathkid> of course
[03:19] <heathkid> I'm about 6 miles from our local airport... I'd file anyway
[03:20] <codrBlu> Video probably depends on the quality you want.
[03:20] <heathkid> waaaaay back when... I did SSTV with good results
[03:20] <codrBlu> You can get a really cheap and small analog VGA camera
[03:20] <heathkid> have plenty...
[03:21] <heathkid> even some that are serial
[03:21] <heathkid> just don't know what mode I should use
[03:21] <codrBlu> Now you are beyond me.
[03:22] <heathkid> and... it'll take another TX for video...
[03:22] <heathkid> APRS no problem... video (different story)
[03:22] <heathkid> or just send it up with a HD cam and hope I recover it! :)
[03:24] <codrBlu> I'd love to try direct to ground video some day.
[03:24] <nigelvh> cam is going to give the best pictures and easiest implementation
[03:24] <nigelvh> We've done live video, but it's a good bit more work and money
[03:24] <heathkid> not *quite* ready yet for the rapid ascent to over 100k ft. to burst and a parashute/parafoil to return to launch site... just yet.
[03:25] <codrBlu> My personal goal is a high altitude floater with a live controllable HD video stream. :-)
[03:25] <codrBlu> Someday.
[03:25] <heathkid> I can barely get the parafoil out of the box without tangling it all up!
[03:25] <heathkid> heh
[03:26] <heathkid> my personal goal is a complete orbit and return to launch site
[03:26] <codrBlu> :-)
[03:26] <codrBlu> That's my immediate goal as well.
[03:26] <nigelvh> HD is going to be a LOT of work. Video streams take up HUGE amounts of bandwidth.
[03:26] <heathkid> I'd be happy with VGA
[03:26] <nigelvh> NTSC is what you'll get.
[03:26] <heathkid> yeah
[03:27] <codrBlu> True. Someday I will push that boundary.
[03:27] <heathkid> HD would work though
[03:27] <nigelvh> Which is doable and reasonable. But like I said, a good bit more money and effort and power and weight.
[03:27] <codrBlu> Yep.
[03:28] <nigelvh> HD can often even be a problem for modern short range WiFi networks, so balloon data transfer of HD is a little remote without a LOT of money.
[03:28] <heathkid> right now I've got a complete APRS "tracker" that'll run off 3 AA batteries
[03:28] <codrBlu> I wonder if a series of floaters at different altitudes acting as relays for the HD would help.
[03:28] <heathkid> throw in a little keychain HD cam and off it goes...
[03:28] <heathkid> just hope I find it
[03:28] <nigelvh> That's getting into the crazy ideas realm.
[03:28] <heathkid> right?
[03:28] <codrBlu> I love crazy ideas.
[03:28] <nigelvh> I'd go for the cheap onboard cam
[03:28] <heathkid> you want crazy?
[03:29] <heathkid> how about multiple cut-downs for repeaters
[03:29] <codrBlu> Leave a trail of smaller balloons as repeaters?
[03:29] <heathkid> yep
[03:30] <codrBlu> Hmm. I'm thinking of solar electric propeller controlled repeaters flying in formation.
[03:30] <heathkid> too heavy
[03:30] <heathkid> and won't work well at night
[03:31] <heathkid> remember... a complete orbit
[03:31] <codrBlu> You could put quite a propeller, motor and battery up at 4 pounds.
[03:31] <codrBlu> Oh. I get yeah.
[03:32] <codrBlu> How about an RC plane as relay?
[03:32] <heathkid> heavy
[03:32] <heathkid> parafoil is better
[03:33] <heathkid> thermopiles to search for lift
[03:33] <heathkid> :)
[03:33] <codrBlu> Although for a complete orbit, what are you transmitting too? At this point, sending the live video to satellite might be best.
[03:33] <heathkid> indeed
[03:33] <heathkid> but which ones?
[03:33] <codrBlu> Expensive though.
[03:33] <codrBlu> The spot repeater transmits to the Globalstar network. That might be an option.
[03:33] <heathkid> BGan of course
[03:34] <codrBlu> I mean the spot GPS tracker.
[03:34] <heathkid> ah
[03:34] <heathkid> 4 lbs. would be pushing it
[03:34] <codrBlu> Well the SPOT is VERY light.
[03:35] <heathkid> SPOT? link?
[03:35] <codrBlu> With just a satellite transmitter, camera, solar panel and battery, perhaps you could do it. Might need a slightly bigger balloon.
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[03:38] <codrBlu> Here is a cellphone sized satellite video phone from 2005: http://www.engadget.com/2005/04/18/sk-teletechs-imb-1000/
[03:38] <codrBlu> Take out the extraneous bits, and you would have a very interesting base for a satellite balloon platform.
[03:40] <codrBlu> Nevermind. That is only receiving video from satellite
[03:40] <heathkid> doubt I need the MP3 player. :)
[03:40] <heathkid> yep
[03:41] <codrBlu> Wow. BGAN video streaming is $20 per minute.
[03:42] <codrBlu> Ok. I'm back to the multiple balloon theory. Much cheaper.
[03:42] <heathkid> there is a sat uplink solution but not sure it'd work well
[03:42] <heathkid> at least not for HD video
[03:43] <heathkid> and it's not small enough so forget that for now
[03:43] <heathkid> we get enough balloons in the air in a mesh network... hmmm
[03:44] <heathkid> would take a massive effort
[03:44] <codrBlu> I wonder if we could utilize the same tech that the airlines are using to connect passengers' calls to the cell network. If you could get a cellular data connection from the balloon, that would work.
[03:44] <heathkid> although a few cubesats would be nice too
[03:44] <heathkid> as repeaters
[03:46] <heathkid> could be done
[03:46] <heathkid> guess it depends on how much $ you want to launch without any guarantee of getting it back...
[03:46] <codrBlu> Well, with that much tracking, I don't see why you wouldn't get it back.
[03:46] <heathkid> lots of water on Earth
[03:47] <heathkid> haven't seen a HAB/Boat/Sub yet...
[03:48] <codrBlu> :-)
[03:48] <heathkid> though solar would work to keep things going if it would float on water as well as in the air. :)
[03:48] <codrBlu> HAB payloads are small enough, I imagine you could make one that would last quite awhile floating on the ocean.
[03:49] <codrBlu> I'm thinking sphere with solar panels all around.
[03:49] <heathkid> so we need to train dolphins to retrieve HAB payloads
[03:49] <codrBlu> Ha!
[03:50] <codrBlu> Also, what is the likelihood that it lands in the ocean too far to call up a charter service to go fish it out.
[03:51] <heathkid> I don't have that kind of $$$
[03:51] <heathkid> message in a bottle "HAB"
[03:52] <heathkid> with my luck... it'd sink anyway
[03:52] <heathkid> or get eaten by a shark
[03:53] <codrBlu> I'll bet you could find a plastic sphere to use as a base. Seal it up good and you would be good for months at sea.
[03:54] <heathkid> all I really care about is when it's in the air floating
[03:54] <codrBlu> I'm just thinking to ensure you get it back if it lands in the ocean.
[03:54] <heathkid> that'd never happen
[03:54] <codrBlu> It would be cool though.
[03:55] <heathkid> yes it would... but probably better off buying a lottery ticket
[03:55] <codrBlu> If a message in a bottle can make it, a little plastic sphere can make it.
[03:55] <heathkid> I have absolutely no expectation of retrieving my first launch
[03:56] <codrBlu> Really? How far are you expecting it to go?
[03:56] <heathkid> depends on what I decide to do
[03:56] <heathkid> fast ascent to burst... or get it to float
[03:57] <heathkid> I'm in Indiana so the jetstream passes over us very frequently
[03:57] <heathkid> Europe would be no problem if planned right
[03:57] <heathkid> someone going to ship it back?
[03:57] <heathkid> heh
[03:57] <codrBlu> You would be surprised what the community will do.
[03:58] <heathkid> I hope for the best
[03:58] <codrBlu> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=522
[04:03] <heathkid> nice!
[04:03] <heathkid> can anyone here speak about UKHAS helping out some guy in Indiana, USA *IF* I manage to get across the pond?
[04:04] <heathkid> right now all I have is APRS
[04:04] <heathkid> 2m
[04:04] <codrBlu> Might have to try tomorrow. It's like 5am there.
[04:05] <heathkid> oh yeah...
[04:06] <heathkid> I used to work for a company in Austraila so my timing is a bit off all the time... worked 24 hours a day
[04:06] <heathkid> an hour commute each way to work so it turned out by the time I got home... the Oz office was open
[04:06] <heathkid> sucked to be me
[04:07] <heathkid> I'd fall asleep at the computer or even on the phone
[04:07] <heathkid> Saturday and Sunday were more like one day
[04:08] <codrBlu> Yikes.
[04:08] <heathkid> anyway... I'll probably just do an APRS pico launch for starters...
[04:08] <heathkid> or maybe not
[04:08] <heathkid> gotta test out the new boards and then get them flying
[04:09] <codrBlu> If you do APRS, then there should be no reason not to get your payload back for an up and burst.
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[04:09] <heathkid> we've got a new run of boards... got to test them a bit and then get one flying
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[04:10] <codrBlu> You design the boards?
[04:10] <heathkid> partners... working with KF7FER
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[04:13] <codrBlu> Cool. I'm designing my first computer with an Arduino pro mini, a GPS board and a radio board. Version 2 will be more of a custom board.
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[04:18] <Wolfy-K4GHL> Wow Dave Akerman is famous.. he's on CNN... High-altitude ballooning enthusiast David Akerman can attest to that. He's using RPi to track and transmit photographs from his unmanned balloon flights, which have ascended 40.5 kilometers (25.2 miles) into near space with a camera. http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/28/tech/raspberry-pi-inventions-mci/index.html
[04:19] <codrBlu> Cool. HAB on CNN.
[04:20] <codrBlu> Goodnight all.
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[04:38] <KT5TK> Cool Icom radio at Burger King: http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7o0K/burger-king-chipotle-chicken-sandwich-aliens
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[04:45] <nigelvh> I've seen that commercial. Interesting how it's becoming a little more mainstream.
[04:46] <nigelvh> Icom is not far from me. I sent them my resume a bit ago in case they come up with something.
[04:46] <nigelvh> Hopefully they wouldn't mind that I've got four Yaesu's and only one Icom
[04:48] <nigelvh> How's the evening treating you KT5TK?
[05:10] <KT5TK> Hi nigelvh
[05:10] <KT5TK> Busy at work.
[05:10] <KT5TK> I just came home a few minutes ago
[05:11] <KT5TK> Was doing some DNA comparison on some Native American samples
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[06:08] <eroomde> morning
[06:08] <eroomde> or whatever it is for you
[06:12] <arko> evening
[06:12] <arko> or whatever
[06:13] <eroomde> zulu felicitations
[06:13] <eroomde> i'm telling you, it'll catch on
[06:13] <arko> cant see why not
[06:14] <eroomde> i am having crumpets
[06:14] <eroomde> they are the best of things
[06:14] <eroomde> crumpets w/ PB and black coffee
[06:14] <arko> mmmm
[06:14] <arko> breakfast...
[06:14] <arko> make me want to sleep so i can eat it sooner
[06:15] <eroomde> i had a good 10pm dinner last night
[06:15] <eroomde> i have dinner on monday at about 5pm as i have badminton at 8
[06:15] <eroomde> so i try and eat early
[06:15] <eroomde> but then i cycle in on tuesdays and found that it helped to eat something before bed on monday eve so my legs have something to burn on tue morning
[06:16] <eroomde> the snack yesterday was ribeye steak, asparagus and pasta
[06:16] <arko> oh damn
[06:16] <arko> i want that now
[06:16] <eroomde> snacking like a boss
[06:16] <arko> good snack
[06:16] <arko> i had pizza
[06:17] <arko> from Georgies (that place we went to)
[06:17] <arko> and beer
[06:17] <arko> so it wasnt all bad
[06:17] <arko> now im stuck here finishing a lab i dont want to do >_>
[06:17] <eroomde> that was a good pizza and beer
[06:17] <eroomde> what was the beer we had?
[06:17] <eroomde> was mexican
[06:18] <arko> Newcastle
[06:18] <arko> hahaha
[06:18] <arko> british
[06:18] <eroomde> i had*
[06:18] <arko> oh
[06:18] <eroomde> i'm going to newcastle this weekend infact
[06:18] <arko> Dos Equis
[06:18] <arko> You dont always drink beer in the states, but when you do, you tried Dos Equis
[06:19] <eroomde> that's the one
[06:19] <eroomde> oh is that the bloke?
[06:19] <eroomde> wow
[06:19] <eroomde> i had no idea is was memeing
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[06:21] <arko> yeah
[06:21] <arko> the commericals are pretty good
[06:21] <arko> kinda like a stig thing
[06:21] <arko> "some say..:
[06:22] <eroomde> arko: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NoxiK7K28PU#!
[06:23] <arko> quadrotor video!
[06:24] <arko> love it
[06:24] <arko> turns out someone at marshall did this a few days ago too
[06:24] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed4EyXxwWS4&feature=youtu.be&t=50s
[06:24] <arko> :P
[06:25] <eroomde> nice
[06:25] <eroomde> i love the water vapour plumes
[06:25] <eroomde> very steampunk
[06:26] <arko> I KNOW!!
[06:26] <arko> these videos man
[06:26] <arko> so epic
[06:27] <eroomde> arko: is there a vhdl tutorial that stands out particularly?
[06:28] <arko> i learned at JPL, twas a free class
[06:28] <arko> so
[06:28] <arko> i didnt really learn from the internex
[06:28] <eroomde> sigh
[06:28] <arko> i dont know anything worth mentioning really... i wish udacity did a course
[06:29] <eroomde> where is my local space centre
[06:29] <arko> srsly
[06:30] <arko> isnt that you guys? ;P
[06:30] <arko> http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-111-introductory-digital-systems-laboratory-fall-2002/index.htm
[06:30] <arko> theres that
[06:30] <arko> MIT's stuff aint too bad
[06:30] <arko> just out of date
[06:30] <eroomde> mmm, my friend took that
[06:31] <eroomde> there was a cam/mit exchange program
[06:31] <arko> oh neat
[06:31] <eroomde> i remember him telling me about that course. he made a resistor cube for his final project
[06:31] <arko> nice!
[06:31] <arko> those are fun :)
[06:35] <eroomde> http://www.freerangefactory.org/dl/free_range_vhdl.pdf
[06:37] <arko> oh nice
[06:37] <arko> i just tend to have a hard time learning from books like that
[06:37] <eroomde> yeah i think so too
[06:37] <eroomde> it's more a language reference
[06:37] <arko> yeah
[06:37] <arko> i do like the first 3 then get ADD and start making my own stuff
[06:37] <arko> all the while not learning everything else
[06:37] <arko> it's bad :/
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[06:43] <arko> oh good, mathematica has a bodeplot function
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[06:49] <arko> but some how i cant figure out how to name the axis
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[07:03] <x-f> morning
[07:04] <x-f> daveake, you know you're on CNN?
[07:05] <daveake> That was ages ago :)
[07:05] <daveake> Well, last month
[07:06] <x-f> you didn't share the link! :)
[07:06] <x-f> Wolfy-K4GHL mentioned it earlier this morning
[07:11] <arko> daveake is too cool for hollywood dude
[07:12] <daveake> Yeah I can't mention every news item :p
[07:12] <arko> haha
[07:13] <Penfold> but they're all on your fan page, right? :D
[07:14] <arko> respect
[07:14] <arko> blah, messy mathematica problem finished, time to sleep.. i cant look at another bode plot..
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[07:27] <SpeedEvil> http://t.co/LXmMCYDD0e API!
[07:27] <SpeedEvil> woo!
[07:27] <SpeedEvil> spacex grasshopper 250m hover
[07:41] <oh7lzb> Wow.
[07:43] Nick change: daveake1 -> daveake
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[08:20] <costyn> Semafoor: hiya
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[08:21] <costyn> Semafoor: please see PM
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[08:57] <lz1dev> anyone tried to listen for the phonesats?
[08:58] <fsphil> I struggle to get O2 as it is
[08:59] <HixWork> heh
[09:01] <gonzo__> second person asked that? Summut stewing?
[09:02] <gonzo__> someone hacke iridium?
[09:03] <russss> http://www.phonesat.org/
[09:04] <gonzo__> ah, OK. Misinterptered that one!
[09:08] <eroomde> russss: are you going to be at the aker faire?
[09:08] <russss> eroomde: yes
[09:08] <eroomde> cool
[09:08] <eroomde> me too
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[09:15] <daveake> I have a faire? :p
[09:15] <eroomde> oh i missed that
[09:15] <eroomde> both the m and the absence of the m
[09:16] <daveake> Consistent
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[09:30] <mfa298> just reading the phone sat page, how old school having to manually submit packets.
[09:30] <gonzo__> they claim , linear vertical polarisation?
[09:30] <Darkside> heh
[09:30] <gonzo__> how?
[09:30] <Darkside> well
[09:30] <Darkside> off the sat
[09:30] <Darkside> :P
[09:31] <Darkside> not necessarilt what you get at the receiver on the ground
[09:31] <gonzo__> hehe, yep
[09:31] <Darkside> the ionosphere does interesting things
[09:31] <Darkside> faraday rotation
[09:31] <gonzo__> so does the orbit
[09:31] <Darkside> yes
[09:31] <mfa298> presumably they mean it's pointing towards earth, so when it's directly overhead we'll be nicely in the null
[09:32] <Darkside> \Omega=\frac{e^3 \lambda^2}{8\pi^2 c^3 \epsilon_0 m^2} \int{NB\cos{\theta dl}}
[09:32] <Darkside> where $e=1.6022 \times 10^{-19}$ C, $m=9.1096\times 10^{-31}$ kg, $c\approx 3\times 10^8$ m/s, and $\epsilon_0 = 8.854\times 10^{-12}$F/m. $\lambda$ is the wavelength of the signal in metres, $N$ the electron density, in electrons/$m^3$, and B the earth magnetic field vector, in Wb/$m^2$.
[09:32] <gonzo__> I was thinking just that!
[09:32] <Darkside> i assume you can all parse LaTeX equation cide in your head
[09:35] <gonzo__> I suppose given a low enough orbot they can clain 'sort of' vertical iss, well more vert for more of the time.......
[09:35] <gonzo__> ish
[09:39] <cuddykid> fsphil: did you message me in response to the 8 bit ascii question last night? IRC client was bouncing away but couldn't scroll back far enough :P
[09:40] <fsphil> cuddykid: yea, and yea :)
[09:41] <fsphil> it's 8-bit, not really ascii so you have to be careful how you handle it
[09:41] <cuddykid> fsphil: excellent - I'll try the 8 bit in a sec! Hopefully that sorts out the problem :)
[09:41] <cuddykid> fsphil: currently I'm just casting to a char when it comes in via serial then sending it to rtty_txbyte which expects a char
[09:42] <fsphil> that should be safe
[09:42] <fsphil> just remember that 0x00 can appear so you can't treat it as a C-style string
[09:43] <fsphil> and linux will sometimes try and convert newline types
[09:43] <daveake> yup
[09:44] <cuddykid> what does it try and convert them to?
[09:44] <eroomde> I put an old video up from the external HDD trapsing
[09:44] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1vhHefnrLU&feature=youtu.be
[09:45] <eroomde> a useful thing is that pyrotechnic protractors might be The safe pyrotechnic way of doing things like cutdowns
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[09:45] <daveake> cuddykid NL --> CR NL for example
[09:46] <cuddykid> oh
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[09:46] <daveake> Have a look at the ioctl settings
[09:46] <cuddykid> will do, thanks :)
[09:46] Nick change: Vlad___ -> Vlad
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[09:46] <fsphil> which is fine if the data is ascii
[09:46] <daveake> Fortunately I guessed that one quickly when SSDV didn't work but telemetry had
[09:47] <daveake> But if Linux comms is new to you it could waste a *lot* of time
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[10:33] <cuddykid> hm, my image packet is only taking about 5 secs to send - it should be more like 10secs shouldn't it fsphil ?
[10:33] <fsphil> at 300 baud yea
[10:34] <cuddykid> hm
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[10:34] <fsphil> is your loop using char? it might be overflowing at 127
[10:35] <cuddykid> fsphil: I'm using this atm - http://pastebin.com/BS7LxCcj
[10:35] <fsphil> wouldn't flushing it clear incoming bytes?
[10:36] <cuddykid> I'm only sending 1 packet for now
[10:36] <cuddykid> so should have stored it by the time it's flushed
[10:36] <cuddykid> I've stuck a rtty_txstring in the middle to verify that I can decode fine and that works
[10:38] <fsphil> even if it wasn't receiving right, it should still be taking 10 seconds to send with that loop
[10:39] <Darkside> KJ6KRW-2>CQ,TELEM:.5qjuH0iCS47YCaA!*;TU:f^CP+F!kd!"oD7SH12S!"T&nR66p/,,'qs!>G[R=hlUXTE,=%;;4[8Xq`M(&0LuPrh%o6)k;%],t1Z/938Eg4E"lqe40i]SpT[H%tfi[ia]W_qT^e8qu6D)&dos'H2mJmIjBGsp#5T8/1EP@Fke?TM&["\WP$^\!!.
[10:39] <Darkside> aww yeh
[10:40] <lz1dev> nice
[10:42] <cuddykid> fsphil: if you get a mo - https://www.dropbox.com/s/5rwhhqkc9z4hgu9/capture.wav
[10:43] <lz1dev> Darkside: how strong is the signal ?
[10:43] <cuddykid> fsphil: 8N1 425 shift - it should say something like "About to send over packet.." then send it over (but only lasts ~5secs)
[10:43] <cuddykid> bb in 5
[10:44] <Darkside> it was wuite strong lz1dev
[10:45] <Darkside> well, one of them was
[10:45] <mfa298> Darkside: what antenna and software are you using to decode it ?
[10:45] <Darkside> im using my kenwood TH-D72 as a TNC
[10:45] <Darkside> antenna was a 70cm yagi
[10:45] <Darkside> 7 elements
[10:47] <mfa298> I might have to try the TS2000 with it's TNC then. Although I've only got a simple dipole. I'll have to hope the 2000 makes up in sensitivity.
[10:57] <x-f> mfa298, thanks for the hint on mosh a few days back, it really works and i stay connected when switching between networks :)
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[10:58] <mfa298> x-f: I've used it a couple of times when out mobile and it's been good for IRC when the 3G connection is flaky.
[10:59] <fsphil> IRC works quite well over radio
[11:00] <fsphil> someone should setup an amateur radio IRC server sometime
[11:00] <mattbrejza> irc over rtty?
[11:00] <fsphil> I had it going over packet
[11:00] <mattbrejza> na, balloon launched irc server
[11:00] <fsphil> hah
[11:00] <mattbrejza> 600 baud rtty
[11:01] <mfa298> need a suitable repeater that everyone can recieve, I wonder how we could get one high enough to cover the uk.
[11:01] <fsphil> launch in the north of england, should cover pretty much the entire british isles
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[11:07] <lz1dev> Darkside: hmm, i wonder if the ezcap will manage to receive it
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[11:11] <mfa298> lz1dev: with a habamp I'd expect it to be possible with an ezcap. I'm not sure if the ezcap would be sensitive enough on its own.
[11:15] <craag> mfa298: Are you talking about the phonesats?
[11:15] <mfa298> craag: yes
[11:16] <craag> What downlink freq are they?
[11:16] <mfa298> 437.425
[11:16] <mfa298> from http://www.phonesat.org/packets.php
[11:17] <craag> Hmm right on the edge of the habamp, but might help a little.
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[11:18] <mfa298> I did make the assumption that it was close enough to help (althoguh that might have been a bad assumption)
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[11:19] <craag> mfa298: HAve you had much look listening for them?
[11:19] <craag> *much luck
[11:19] <mfa298> havn't tried yet.
[11:20] <cm13g09> afternoon mfa298
[11:20] <mfa298> I've just stuck the data into the HRD satelite tracking app and it looks like there's a pass at 12:35 local and possibly a better pass as 14:03
[11:21] <mfa298> afternoon cm13g09
[11:22] <craag> Hmm I'll try at 14:03 then
[11:22] <mfa298> sorry 12:30 local for the first one.
[11:22] <craag> I'm hoping the zepler discone will be optimal for this kind of thing.
[11:22] <mattbrejza> so FM at 437.425 ish?
[11:22] <mattbrejza> lets see what astra can do
[11:22] <craag> or ASTRA..
[11:22] <craag> That should do nicely :)
[11:23] <craag> Til we get the az/el tracking array on zepler at least...
[11:23] <mfa298> I suppose I'd better actually try now and see what I can get. Not sure if I've got any suitable software for it though.
[11:24] <mattbrejza> any ideas what it will be called in hrd?
[11:25] <mattbrejza> also i cant seem to turn SQL off :(
[11:26] <mfa298> I had to add the file from the phonesat site to get them in the list
[11:27] <mattbrejza> hmm
[11:27] <mfa298> I added this file http://www.phonesat.org/phonesat.txt
[11:30] <mattbrejza> yea found it
[11:30] <mattbrejza> but HRD is a right PITA
[11:30] <mfa298> I just used it as I had it installed and I thought it could do sats
[11:34] <mattbrejza> urgh why wont skype allow one way calls (i have no mic)
[11:34] <mattbrejza> stupid thing
[11:34] <mattbrejza> i probably would be getting it if it wasnt for SQL being probably turned up too high
[11:35] <mfa298> wow, that sounded like some packet on the 817, although I don't think the FCD+ saw anything
[11:35] <mattbrejza> all i have is the fldigi waterfall
[11:35] <craag> data over skype is *not good*
[11:36] <mattbrejza> yea but at least i can hear whats going on
[11:36] <mattbrejza> if it worked at all ¬.¬
[11:36] <craag> :(
[11:37] <mfa298> I heard a couple of good packets on the 817, now I'll just have to try and decode them, the FCD+ didn't seem to do as well but it's got a little bit more coax on it (and it's pretty old RG58 I think)
[11:38] <mfa298> mattbrejza: you want FM mode for this (I'm probably pointing out the obvious)
[11:39] <mattbrejza> yea i think i heard something
[11:39] <craag> mattbrejza: Have you considered putting astra up as a GlobalTuner and just asserting control with an admin account when you want to use it?
[11:39] <mattbrejza> but cant remotely turn off SQL
[11:39] <mattbrejza> craag: will that work without port forwarding?
[11:40] <craag> mattbrejza: Erm good point, I could find out.
[11:40] <mattbrejza> oh that was def. a ax25 packet
[11:40] <mattbrejza> (i recorded and now replaying
[11:40] <mattbrejza> )
[11:40] <mattbrejza> SQL ¬.¬
[11:51] <fsphil> cuddykid: there doesn't seem to be any sign of a packet there at all. The first two bytes in each packet are ascii characters "Uf"
[11:51] <cuddykid> fsphil: yep, noticed that whilst inspecting files - I'll have a more detailed look in a few mins
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[12:02] <SP9UOB_Tom> pinf UPU
[12:02] <SP9UOB_Tom> ping UPU
[12:07] <cuddykid> probably want ping UpuWork
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[12:22] <WILLdude> Afternoon.
[12:27] <WILLdude> So. Sup?
[12:28] <eroomde> not much
[12:28] <eroomde> it is nice
[12:28] <daveake> sunny
[12:28] <eroomde> dog lept into the lagoon
[12:28] <daveake> poodle went for a paddle?
[12:28] <eroomde> i leapt into some code
[12:34] <gonzo__> wellies got stuck, foot in mud
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[12:34] <gonzo__> (sounds like a usual day's debugging)
[12:35] <Laurenceb> http://usb.brando.com/3-digits-combination-usb-flash-drive-security-lock_p01117c062d015.html
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[12:58] Nick change: MoALTz_ -> MoALTz
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[13:36] <cuddykid> looks like the stupid software serial is causing problems
[13:36] <cuddykid> did 2 perfect reads, then 1 mangled read
[13:41] <daveake> How surprising*
[13:41] <daveake> *sarcasm
[13:41] <cuddykid> not going to be able to use hardware serial either
[13:42] <cuddykid> hm, might just have to drive ntx2 from pi then
[13:47] <fsphil> what's software serial for?
[13:47] <cuddykid> reading in serial from pi
[13:47] <fsphil> why not use the hardware serial?
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[13:48] <cuddykid> 1) I don't have a breakout for hardware pin 2) already taken up by gps data
[13:48] <fsphil> I'd stuck gps on SS, then you can disable it when not reading gps
[13:48] <fsphil> stick*
[13:48] <cuddykid> it's all on a pcb unfortunately
[13:48] <fsphil> ah
[13:49] <cuddykid> might actually be better running two standalone systems rather than trying to integrate
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[13:51] <daveake> cuddykid Probably, yes, but if you do want to integrate, how about making the AVR an i2c slave?
[13:51] <daveake> Then you have h/w support
[13:52] <cuddykid> interesting idea
[13:54] <cuddykid> ah, found out I've been using the old 'SoftwareSerial' rather than newer 'NewSoftSerial'.. I'll hesitantly give the newer version a go but don't expect much improvement
[13:55] <x-f> SoftwareSerial from Arduino 1.x is newer than NewSoftSerial
[13:56] <cuddykid> oh
[13:56] <x-f> NewSoftSerial was newer than SoftwareSerial, when Arduino was on 00xx versions
[13:56] <cuddykid> lol
[13:56] <cuddykid> right, that closes that possibility down
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[14:28] <Laurenceb> "software" serial is a plain bad idea
[14:29] <eroomde> not impossible to do right though
[14:31] <fsphil> it shouldn't be as difficult as SS seems to be making it
[14:31] <eroomde> but i think half the people having problems with it only have one serial device anyway - the gps
[14:31] <eroomde> so why on earth not just use the uart to talk to the gps?
[14:33] <Darkside> because they think they need the UART for programming
[14:33] <Darkside> when they can really just disconnect the gps to program, use the resistor trick, or just not program via uart in the first place
[14:34] <Darkside> i don't see the point in an 'arduino compatible' programming header, when i have to have an ISP header to flash a bootloader anyway
[14:34] <Darkside> may as well just program using the ISP
[14:34] <eroomde> or just use that little 2x3 pin header on the side that they previously though was for skewering little cubes of cheese
[14:34] <Darkside> yes.
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[14:34] <mattbrejza> hmm interesting idea
[14:34] <Darkside> of course not everyone has a decent IP programmer
[14:34] <Darkside> ISP*
[14:34] <Darkside> using an arduino as one is a bit of a hack
[14:35] <mattbrejza> (the cheese one)
[14:35] <eroomde> it's like £25 for the isp mk2
[14:35] <Darkside> yeah
[14:35] <Darkside> its not much
[14:35] <eroomde> which is about the most expensive way of doing it
[14:35] <Darkside> and they are great
[14:35] <eroomde> about £2 on ebay
[14:35] <Darkside> at some point i need to take a look into the msp430 series
[14:36] <Darkside> mattbrejza: what dev environment were you using?
[14:36] <mattbrejza> eclipse
[14:36] <fsphil> haha
[14:36] <Darkside> what compiler?
[14:36] <mattbrejza> er...
[14:36] <fsphil> eclipse kills my laptop
[14:36] <Darkside> is there a gcc target?
[14:36] <mattbrejza> didnt have to look that far :P
[14:36] <Darkside> heh
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[14:36] <mattbrejza> but im fairly sure there is a version of gcc or something
[14:36] <Darkside> yeah
[14:36] <Darkside> ok
[14:36] <Darkside> well thats useful
[14:37] <mattbrejza> mspgcc apparently
[14:37] <Darkside> one of our team has been using MSP430s for as long as they'e been around
[14:37] <Darkside> knows them back to front
[14:37] <mattbrejza> they are reasonably similar to avrs
[14:37] <mattbrejza> its not as bad as say going to ARM
[14:38] <Darkside> mm
[14:38] <fsphil> is there an mspdude?
[14:38] <mattbrejza> lots of examples too from TI
[14:38] <eroomde> i am using fpgalink atm
[14:38] <eroomde> which is kind of fpgadude
[14:38] <mattbrejza> as a programmer i just use the £3 dev board
[14:39] <Darkside> whatsitcalled again
[14:39] <mattbrejza> launchpad
[14:39] <Darkside> the red one
[14:39] <Darkside> thats it
[14:39] <Darkside> so you use the launchpad to program your payload board?
[14:39] <Darkside> the weenie one
[14:39] <mattbrejza> was a bit of a bodge to getit to work at 1.8V
[14:39] <Darkside> nice though
[14:39] <mattbrejza> yea but it needed logic level shifting
[14:39] <Darkside> ah
[14:40] <Darkside> how much is a proper programmer / debug interface?
[14:40] <mattbrejza> 20-30 maybe (without looking)
[14:41] <Darkside> not too bad
[14:41] <mattbrejza> btw eroomde, continuing on from PT100 being a good temperature sensor, any wise words for humidity?
[14:41] <Darkside> but im pretty sure i have a launchpad in a drawer somewhere
[14:41] <Darkside> mattbrejza: +1 on the himidity question
[14:41] <Darkside> humidity
[14:41] <mattbrejza> you can debug with them too which is nice
[14:41] <Darkside> you vcan get lots of capacitive humidity sensors
[14:41] <Darkside> but then you need a way of reading them
[14:42] <mattbrejza> just a oscillator and frequency counter
[14:42] <Darkside> i know you can do tricks with logic inputs and measuring how long the cap takes to discharge
[14:42] <Darkside> or that
[14:42] <mattbrejza> its a shame the cc430 doesnt have more timers though
[14:43] <mattbrejza> they have lots of capture outputs at least
[14:43] <eroomde> mattbrejza: no idea bout humidity i'm afriad
[14:44] <mattbrejza> i know the sondes have two sensors, one measuring and one being heated, and they switch over
[14:44] <mattbrejza> but cant remember why
[14:44] <mattbrejza> google time then
[14:44] <Darkside> yeah i see that on the output
[14:44] <Darkside> you see the 2 sensors alternative
[14:45] <Darkside> well, on the analog sondes anyway, where all you can see is the raw data values
[14:45] <Darkside> on the digital ones you just get a value
[14:45] <gonzo__> we used to use that method to measure air speed
[14:45] <mattbrejza> on the sensor stick there are two little blobs which i was told were humidity
[14:45] <Darkside> mattbrejza: im pretty sure its the other open bits
[14:46] <Darkside> theres the wire for temp, then theres the other 2 things
[14:46] <Darkside> and yeah, theres other blobs in the sensor stick too
[14:46] <Darkside> dunno what they are
[14:46] <mattbrejza> well i was refering to the blobs that kinda hang in a little cut out
[14:46] <mattbrejza> which i think is what you mean
[14:47] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/analog_sonde.jpg
[14:47] <Darkside> yes
[14:47] <Darkside> but you can see the other blob i mean in that picture
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[14:48] <mattbrejza> yea tahts the same stick as the digital ones
[14:48] <Darkside> yup
[14:48] <Darkside> i'd very much like to know how it is read
[14:49] <Darkside> anyway, time i went to sleep
[14:49] <Darkside> night all
[14:49] <mattbrejza> night
[14:56] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[15:30] <cuddykid> anyone have a python (or C) script for pi to do rtty via NTX2? - save me having to write one :P
[15:31] <HixWork> I'm playing with octave instead of doing work. Not necessarily a bad thing
[15:31] <HixWork> B = rand (3,2)
[15:31] <HixWork> oops
[15:33] <fsphil> cuddykid: you won't be able to do rtty reliably in software on the Pi. You'll need to use the hardware uart, or with a bit of hacking possibly the audio out
[15:33] <cuddykid> fsphil: is that because of timing inaccuracies?
[15:34] <fsphil> linux won't guarantee timing, the OS could be doing all sorts in the background
[15:35] <fsphil> there may be sneaky ways around that
[15:35] <fsphil> I've not looked
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[15:44] <eroomde> eg hanging for 500ms to wait for the i2c temp sensors to return a value
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[15:54] <cuddykid> excellent, some guy has written a library (wiringPi) that should hopefully do delays down to microsecond accuracy - should be good enough for 300 baud I would think
[15:54] <mattbrejza> whats wrong with the uart?
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[15:55] <mattbrejza> (a simple resistor arragment and using another GPIO can be used as a mux if needed)
[15:55] <cuddykid> how would I do that with ntx2 - just sending at correct baud via serial?
[15:56] <mattbrejza> yea, im fairly sure thats what dave did
[15:56] <cuddykid> ping daveake
[15:56] <mattbrejza> however not sure if you can set it to 7n1
[15:56] <mattbrejza> but tbh 8n1 is basically 8n2
[15:56] <daveake> pung
[15:56] <mattbrejza> *7n2 is 8n1
[15:57] <eroomde> 8n1 is the new baudot
[15:57] <cuddykid> hiya - I've decided to go with bolting ntx2 to pi now and skipping arduino stuff, is this what you did before using 2 ntx2s?
[15:57] <daveake> Yeah all I did was set up the baud rate / bits / etc., switch off output translation, then send the telemetry sentence or SSDV packet to the serial port
[15:58] <daveake> On most of my Pi flights the GPS was connected by I2C
[15:58] <daveake> So the async port was free for the NTX2
[15:59] <cuddykid> and with uart tx -> txd on ntx2?
[16:00] <daveake> yes using the usual 1-pin circuit
[16:01] <daveake> Didn't you watch my conf talk? :P
[16:01] <cuddykid> no haha, perhaps I should watch it
[16:01] <cuddykid> ah, yes, I see now on the wiki - been a while since I used ntx2
[16:02] <cuddykid> when I used it before I was doing the 2 pin tx to ntx2
[16:03] <cuddykid> right - looks simple enough (famous last words) - I'll rip the ntx2 off my old board later and give it a shot
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[16:22] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:42] <Steffanx> lo
[16:42] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[16:47] <Steffanx> Like always, busy. bored. Wonderful
[16:50] <cuddykid> "Pedro from Brazil has won the much-desired ticket to space. His place in space was only 14,7 km away from the balloon's highest point" - seems a long way to me given the amount of entries
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[16:51] <Lunar_Lander> cuddykid, what was the objective of the contest?
[16:52] <cuddykid> pick the closest point of burst (in 3D space)
[16:52] <Lunar_Lander> and what is that ticket he won?
[16:52] <cuddykid> there were a huge number of entries
[16:52] <cuddykid> one of these 'space' flights
[16:52] <Lunar_Lander> Richard Branson Spacelines?
[16:52] <Lunar_Lander> or so
[16:52] <cuddykid> something like that yep
[16:52] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[16:53] <cuddykid> just that 14.7km seems quite a way away given the cluster of entries
[16:53] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[16:55] <chrisstubbs> Afternoon
[16:55] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:55] <Lunar_Lander> cuddykid, do you have a link to the contest?
[16:55] <cuddykid> Lunar_Lander: http://space.klm.com - I think their servers are taking quite a beating atm
[16:56] <Lunar_Lander> "503 Service Unavailable
[16:56] <Lunar_Lander> No server is available to handle this request. "
[16:56] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[16:56] <Lunar_Lander> so KLM royal dutch airlines launched a balloon?
[16:56] <cuddykid> yep
[16:56] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[16:57] <cuddykid> I wasn't too far away by the looks of it (habhub predictor helped :D )
[16:57] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[16:57] <cuddykid> looks like it was a JP aerospace jobby
[16:58] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[16:58] <chrisstubbs> ping WILLdude, check maplin website :P
[16:58] <cuddykid> yep, their instantly recognisable rig
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[17:03] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, did you have any success with ssdv?
[17:04] <cuddykid> chrisstubbs: ran into problems with software serial on arduino so now going down the route of driving ntx2 directly from pi
[17:04] <cuddykid> software serial wasn't giving reliable reads - kept mangling data
[17:04] <chrisstubbs> ah bloody ss
[17:05] <chrisstubbs> root of all evil
[17:05] <cuddykid> yep
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[17:06] <chrisstubbs> tried to make a external 4 cell battery pack for my cannon cam but the batteries still only last long enough to take one photo :P
[17:06] <bertrik> I read that new versions of the arduino IDE ship with an improved software serial, NewSoftSerial, supposedly much better than the old one
[17:07] <Lunar_Lander> no that was the pre-1.0 system
[17:08] <chrisstubbs> NewSoftSerial is now known as just softwareserial and replaced the old one afaik
[17:08] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[17:08] <cuddykid> yep, which also caused confusion :P
[17:08] <cuddykid> the old new software serial
[17:08] <cuddykid> need the new but not new software serial instead :)
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[17:10] <Lunar_Lander> btw they did chose a name that is not good historically
[17:10] <Lunar_Lander> at least I as a german don't want to use the acronym
[17:11] <bertrik> is the software-serial-formerly-known-as-new-soft-serial also problematic for receiving?
[17:11] <cuddykid> yes, it's a nightmare for receiving
[17:11] <cuddykid> I'm guessing it should be mostly fine transmitting
[17:13] <arko> mornin
[17:14] <chrisstubbs> Hi arko
[17:14] <arko> whats crackin?
[17:15] <Lunar_Lander> arko, I don't like the naming of Software Serial
[17:15] <Lunar_Lander> the abbreviation has a bad historical background
[17:15] <Lunar_Lander> they should change that
[17:15] <arko> find/replace the library and rerelease it
[17:16] <arko> i think the license allows you to
[17:16] <Lunar_Lander> yay!
[17:16] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[17:16] <arko> i was very upset the day i found out that there is no real standard to variable/function naming
[17:16] <arko> at least, universally used
[17:16] <chrisstubbs> caall it LL
[17:16] <chrisstubbs> *call
[17:17] <arko> LunarLandersHappyFunTimeSerial.begin();
[17:17] <chrisstubbs> oh btw arko: http://www.arco.co.uk/
[17:17] <chrisstubbs> makes all the safety gear at our work haha
[17:17] Action: arko is an expert in safety
[17:17] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[17:18] <arko> theres also http://www.arco.com/
[17:18] <arko> the gas company
[17:18] <bertrik> the nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from
[17:18] <arko> im also shaving cream and deoderant
[17:18] <chrisstubbs> jeez what a horrid animation
[17:18] <arko> bertrik yeah
[17:18] <arko> true
[17:18] <Lunar_Lander> I am a famous computer game
[17:18] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[17:18] <arko> you guys dont have arco gas stations?
[17:19] <arko> i think it's BP owned so nvm
[17:19] <chrisstubbs> not that i have ever seen
[17:22] <chrisstubbs> why did i bother driving all the way to maplin to buy a DC connector for this camera, it makes such a crappy connection im going to have to solder it on anyway
[17:25] <arko> what kinda connector?
[17:25] <chrisstubbs> i could only find a spec for the connector on the CHDK forum in another language
[17:25] <chrisstubbs> 0.7mm x 2.5mm i got
[17:26] <chrisstubbs> cannon a530
[17:27] <arko> can you remove the connector and solder in wires?
[17:32] <chrisstubbs> Reverted to my first solution. Nails and polycarbonate rod :P http://bit.ly/14MIPXQ http://bit.ly/14MIQeg
[17:38] <Upu> hey SP9UOB_Tom
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[17:39] <SP9UOB_Tom> hey UPU
[17:39] <Upu> you were after me earlier sorry been out on site all day
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[17:43] Action: SP9UOB_Tom got NOTAM :-)
[17:43] <SP9UOB_Tom> D1725/13 - ONE BALLON WILL BE LAUNCHED AT 0900 AND 1000 PSN (WGS-84): 501621.06N 0184021.01E DIMENSION: 1,5-15M RATE OF CLIMB: 1 - 3 M/S COLOUR: CREAMY CEILING UP TO 45000M AMSL FREQ: 437,600MHZ ORGANIZER PHONE: +48 500267765. FIR BOUNDRY CROSSING IS POSSIBLE. GND - 45000M AMSL, 0900-1800, 04 MAY 09:00 2013 UNTIL 05 MAY 18:00 2013. CREATED: 23 APR 12:35 2013
[17:44] <SP9UOB_Tom> look at the ceiling :-)
[17:44] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[17:44] <arko> creamy?
[17:44] <Lunar_Lander> creamy ceiling xD
[17:44] <arko> i want a pastery now
[17:45] Action: SP9UOB_Tom is obliged
[17:49] <WILLdude> Hi.
[17:49] <SP9UOB_Tom> all: any hints to solder LGA-8 Package ?
[17:50] <SP9UOB_Tom> Hotair or oven ?
[17:50] <SP9UOB_Tom> anyway, interesting project: http://www.digitalmisery.com/projects/altstick/
[17:53] <Upu> BMP085 style SP9UOB_Tom ?
[17:55] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: MPL3115A2
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[17:57] <Upu> pads come to edge
[17:57] <Upu> so you can do that by hand just make the pads stick out a little
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[18:04] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: must try :-)
[18:05] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander: just be glad it's not called the Arduino Software Serial
[18:06] <x-f> Advanced..
[18:07] <fsphil> pulseaudio keeps crashing. my linux desktop sound is as reliable as win98 atm
[18:08] <WILLdude> Upu: Do you have any idea why my arduino doesn't tx when the serial port is open?
[18:09] <Upu> depends how you have it wired WILLdude
[18:09] <SP9UOB_Tom> fsphil: remove pulseaudio and use alsa instead
[18:09] <Upu> I'm going to call "something is wrong"
[18:09] <daveake> that old chestnut
[18:10] <WILLdude> Upu: USB A-B
[18:10] <WILLdude> Gtg dinner.
[18:11] <fsphil> SP9UOB_Tom: yea alsa was certainly a bit more reliable, but I do like pulse's ability to control stuff per-app
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[18:14] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, lol
[18:20] <cuddykid> hm, pulsing on the ntx2 - anyone know what that would be? (hooked up to pi)
[18:24] <cuddykid> seems to decode fine for a few seconds then go to garbage
[18:24] <fsphil> last time I had that it was a problem with the power supply to the ntx2
[18:24] <cuddykid> after waiting for a while it starts decoding fine again
[18:24] <cuddykid> ah, that may be the problem - usb powering the pi
[18:25] <fsphil> yea that's worth looking at
[18:25] <cuddykid> I'll get a proper psu
[18:26] <daveake> Power it via the test points, thus bypassing all the fuses
[18:27] <griffonbot> Received email: Matt "[UKHAS] ESRB launch update"
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[18:28] <craag> darn, SHARP frequency collision
[18:29] <cuddykid> new psu seems to have worked :)
[18:32] <cuddykid> hm, the pulsing has stopped, however it still is failing on decode after about 15secs, then working fine again after a bit
[18:32] <cuddykid> think that could still be psu?
[18:32] <fsphil> how does the signal sound?
[18:33] <cuddykid> signal sounds fine
[18:33] <cuddykid> just like normal
[18:34] <fsphil> 2 stop bits?
[18:34] <WILLdude> So. My arduino stops txing when I open the serial monitor.
[18:35] <cuddykid> fsphil: just 1
[18:35] <fsphil> try 2
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[18:36] <cuddykid> that looks much better fsphil :)
[18:36] <cuddykid> thanks!
[18:37] <fsphil> np. seems to be a flaw in current fldigi at higher baud rates
[18:37] <cuddykid> this is a lot easier than messing about with integrating it
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> WILLdude, when you open up the serial monitor, that usually causes a program restart
[18:40] <cuddykid> yes! fsphil - decoded an image packet! woo
[18:40] <cuddykid> excellent
[18:40] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/cbWy9e8.jpg
[18:40] <fsphil> welcome to the exclusive club :)
[18:40] <arko> hahaha
[18:40] <daveake> :)
[18:40] <cuddykid> haha :D
[18:41] <fsphil> just remember it's being uploaded to the live page
[18:41] <fsphil> unless you put dl-fldigi into offline mode
[18:41] <arko> http://ssdv.habhub.org/
[18:41] <daveake> Yeah, no wandering in on it in the morning before you're dressed...
[18:41] <arko> oops
[18:41] <cuddykid> lol
[18:41] <arko> why did i copy/paste that
[18:41] <cuddykid> only got the first packet sending atm
[18:41] <fsphil> lol
[18:42] <fsphil> ooh I see someone else is testing too
[18:42] <WILLdude> Lunar_Lander: Can I stop it from doing that?
[18:43] <cuddykid> hm, fsphil - I get a lot of "timed out waiting for frame" - is that common behaviour?
[18:43] <daveake> nope
[18:43] <fsphil> the Pi's usb bus is a bit iffy
[18:43] <fsphil> well it's more power I thnk
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> WILLdude, no
[18:44] <fsphil> how old a board is it cuddykid?
[18:44] <WILLdude> Even if it resets, why should it stop working?
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> good question
[18:44] <cuddykid> fsphil: few weeks - it's rev B
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> it should continue to work
[18:44] <fsphil> ah not the polyfuse then
[18:44] <cuddykid> nope
[18:44] <fsphil> is there anything in dmesg?
[18:44] <cuddykid> yeah, I just had about 10 in a row of timed out, then just now a success
[18:45] <WILLdude> Ugh.
[18:45] <WILLdude> No tx at all now.
[18:45] <cuddykid> fsphil: is that what it outputs to terminal? or a log file?
[18:45] <fsphil> dmesg is a program, it dumps kernal messages
[18:46] <fsphil> kernel*
[18:46] <cuddykid> oh I see
[18:46] <WILLdude> ARRRRRRGGH!
[18:46] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude, http://bit.ly/15Gdgy9
[18:47] <fsphil> if your gps is on the same serial line as the monitor, it's possibly interfering
[18:47] <WILLdude> Thanks.
[18:47] <WILLdude> fsphil: It's using ss.
[18:48] <chrisstubbs> going to the shops, bbl
[18:48] Nick change: chrisstubbs -> csaway
[18:49] <fsphil> I'm not familiar with arduino, I believe the reset line can be controlled via serial - it's possible that's being held low
[18:49] <WILLdude> ARRRRRRRGHHHH.
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> WILLdude, to the GPS or to the computer?
[18:49] <WILLdude> No tx at all.
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> which one is the hardware serial
[18:49] <WILLdude> Lunar_Lander: It using ss to the gps and normal serial to the pc.
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> try changing it around
[18:51] <WILLdude> You can't use ss over usb can you?
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[18:52] <fsphil> brb
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[18:53] <WILLdude> UURGh.
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[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> WILLdude, one moment
[18:54] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] MONDO poss launch"
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> yea, you'd need a FTDI breakout
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> but it will be worth it
[18:54] <WILLdude> Just about working.
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> software serial to GPS is too unstable
[18:55] <WILLdude> Will one let me read serial from both devices via hardware serial?
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> no
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> as both devices talk on the same line without possibility to discern them
[18:57] <arko> door!
[18:57] <eroomde> yoyo peepers
[18:57] <eroomde> s'up arkonaut
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:58] <cuddykid> watching my first ssdv image coming through :)
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[18:58] <eroomde> nice work cuddykid
[18:58] <Upu> Right WILLdude
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> WILLdude, that is the same reason why any device should be disconnected from UART 0 when programming the arduino
[18:59] <cuddykid> cheers eroomde - thanks fsphil for your great software (and help!) and also daveake
[18:59] <Upu> pics of your set up please, nice clear ones
[19:00] <arko> sup erdoom
[19:00] <eroomde> erdoom
[19:00] <eroomde> like some kind of indecisive fear mongerer
[19:01] <eroomde> 'what shalt become of me oh wise one?'
[19:01] <eroomde> 'er,... doom'
[19:01] Action: SpeedEvil found his doom II CD today.
[19:03] <arko> hah
[19:03] <eroomde> can you even run it?
[19:03] <arko> 'oh no.. not err.. doom'
[19:03] <eroomde> a dos emulator inside a 98 emulator inside an XP emulator inside windows 7 inside a vm?
[19:03] <arko> probably need a dos emulator or something
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[19:05] <arko> winception
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[19:06] Action: arko plays the windows error window sound effect dramatically
[19:06] <eroomde> arko: i got a fifo buffer doing shit today
[19:06] <arko> nice@!
[19:06] <eroomde> i could send data to it from my terminal,a nd then read bytes from it
[19:06] <arko> as long as it doesn't act like a gigo bus
[19:06] <arko> woo!
[19:06] <eroomde> i don't know what a gigo bus is
[19:06] <eroomde> garbage in garbage out?
[19:07] <arko> yeah
[19:07] <arko> :P
[19:07] <eroomde> cleva
[19:07] <arko> crap, g2g lunch time
[19:07] <arko> time to stuff my face with food before the next class
[19:08] <arko> good luck!
[19:08] <Upu> ukhas
[19:08] <Upu> is great ?
[19:08] <arko> yes
[19:08] <Upu> At least it wasn't a password this time
[19:09] <eroomde> i have done that before
[19:09] <eroomde> put a leading space inside
[19:09] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: in principle, load the wad file into the Linux client
[19:09] <eroomde> /msg nickserv identify eroomde <mypassword>
[19:09] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: handy tip
[19:09] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: what is a wad file?
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> add a substitution for part of your password string
[19:11] <SP9UOB_Tom> making PCB design really calms me down :-)
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> the level and ... files.
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> SP9UOB_Tom: it is strangely zen.
[19:11] <eroomde> i swing between finding pcb layout fun and annoying
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> it gets annoying when the board is too small.
[19:12] <eroomde> annoying when i realise i have to change loads of stuff anyway
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> that too
[19:13] Action: SpeedEvil needs to try to get his laser solderer up
[19:13] <eroomde> i parsed the datasheet of the chip i'm using today in a way that means by gps-stick plan A is a fail
[19:13] <eroomde> or at least the behaviour of the usb chip is sufficiently ambiguous that i don;t want to risk it just yet
[19:13] <SpeedEvil> data sheets are a pain
[19:14] <SpeedEvil> I have somewhere on a disk revisions a-k of a Ti omap processor.
[19:14] <SpeedEvil> to try to work out how USB host works
[19:14] <SpeedEvil> information appears and dissapears at random as versions change
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> I was part of the team that got host mode working on the n900. after many announcements from Nokia that could be reasonably parsed as saying it won't work
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[19:28] <jcoxon> evening all
[19:29] <Upu> evening James
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon
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[19:31] <number10> evening
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[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon, were you actually the founder of UKHAS?
[19:39] <jcoxon> ummmmm
[19:39] <jcoxon> i think that is lost to the mists of time
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[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> like the edge of the observable universe?
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:44] <jcoxon> indeed
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> WILLdude, still there?
[19:44] <jcoxon> certainly was around when it stuff started happening
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[19:47] <WILLdude> Lunar_Lander: Yep.
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> can you take a photo of your setup?
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> as Upu has requested
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[19:48] <WILLdude> Lunar_Lander: Not really at the moment.
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:48] <Upu> no rush
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[19:51] <Laurenceb__> jcoxon was first in UK iirc
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:51] <Laurenceb__> obviously the ARHAB guys had been launching for decades
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[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> yea, bill brown 1987
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> and the finnish 1967
[19:52] <Laurenceb__> ok, almost 18 years or so
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> more
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[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> I was born '89 and I am 23
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[19:52] <Laurenceb__> to 1967, yes :P
[19:52] <Laurenceb__> ukhas started up in 2006
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[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:15] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
[20:19] <WILLdude> Hmm.
[20:19] <WILLdude> I have a big decision to make.
[20:20] <WILLdude> Should I buy a robot arm or save up to build a pc?
[20:20] <WILLdude> Hmm.
[20:20] <csaway> WILLdude, both ;)
[20:20] Nick change: csaway -> chrisstubbs
[20:21] <chrisstubbs> i suppose the novelty of the robot arm will wear off
[20:21] <WILLdude> But the awesomeness of controlling it via python won't.
[20:21] <chrisstubbs> true!
[20:24] <WILLdude> Well, I can't use my savings (they're on loan to my parents atm ;)). But if I put 30 quid towards a robotic arm, I'll have about 500 pound for a pc.
[20:24] <WILLdude> Which isn't really enough, by my PC standars.
[20:24] <WILLdude> *standards.
[20:24] <chrisstubbs> that should get you set
[20:24] <chrisstubbs> oh lol
[20:25] <WILLdude> They are giving me a fair interest rate.
[20:25] <chrisstubbs> my parents took my savings to put a heated flooring in the bathroom, and im the one that gets shouted at when i use it aha
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[20:26] <WILLdude> Took them.
[20:26] <WILLdude> Did they give any back?
[20:27] <chrisstubbs> nope, i kinda got the sour end of the deal
[20:27] <chrisstubbs> had any hab/gps/ntx2 related success ?
[20:28] <WILLdude> Nope.
[20:28] <WILLdude> Well.
[20:28] <WILLdude> It works.
[20:28] <WILLdude> Kinda
[20:28] <WILLdude> I think.
[20:29] <chrisstubbs> excellent
[20:29] <WILLdude> I've yet to parse it.
[20:29] <WILLdude> That can wait for friday at the earliest though.
[20:29] <WILLdude> Procrastinators unite!
[20:29] <WILLdude> Nah cba actually, I'll do it tomorrow.
[20:29] <WILLdude> Actually, I guess I'm not that bothered.
[20:30] <WILLdude> Don't think I'll do it at all.
[20:30] <WILLdude> :)
[20:30] <WILLdude> Lol.
[20:31] <chrisstubbs> thats pretty much all your options covered there
[20:40] <eroomde> i like how 'nah actually i'll do it tomorrow' is used to contradict procrastination
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[20:41] <eroomde> pro = for
[20:41] <eroomde> cras = tomorrow
[20:42] <eroomde> tination = the nation in jamaican
[20:43] <WILLdude> Lol.
[20:46] <WILLdude> I need some beer can!
[20:47] <WILLdude> Me and one of my acquaintances (I don't have friends) were discussing creative ways to manage gypsies who are illegally settled or don't pay tax.
[20:48] <lz1dev> give us your best solution
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[20:49] <WILLdude> Shooting range targets.
[20:49] <WILLdude> Exploding caravans, brainiac style.
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[20:52] <lz1dev> so basically give them jobs as crash test dummies ?
[20:52] <WILLdude> Kinda.
[20:52] <WILLdude> Well, lock them in their caravans.
[20:52] <lz1dev> the current crash test dummies wont be happy about your idea
[20:53] <WILLdude> Tow them to a verly large bomb-proof hangar.
[20:53] <WILLdude> Pour nitroglycerin all over their caravan.
[20:53] <WILLdude> Explode.
[20:54] <WILLdude> Hang their corpses, and use them on shooting practice ranges.
[20:54] <lz1dev> there might be some infastructure and operation problems in your plan
[20:54] <WILLdude> Or they could do that first.
[20:54] <WILLdude> Like?
[20:54] <lz1dev> where do you find a large hanger
[20:54] <WILLdude> Someone overhearing our conversation called me a fascist idiot.
[20:54] <WILLdude> I said he should be shot for saaying that.
[20:55] <WILLdude> lz1dev: RAF.
[20:55] <WILLdude> lz1dev: Large fields would work too.
[20:55] <lz1dev> RAF might be keeping stuff in there
[20:55] <lz1dev> and you've gotta bring it out
[20:55] <lz1dev> tedious work
[20:55] <WILLdude> HMm.
[20:56] <WILLdude> It's more expensive to imprison them though.
[20:56] <WILLdude> Perhaps pay the real owners of the land they're on money to help them clean up.
[20:57] <WILLdude> Burning them and selling the scrap metal would be a good idea.
[20:57] <lz1dev> what did caravans ever do to you?
[20:58] <WILLdude> Well, if their residents don't pay tax.
[20:58] <WILLdude> Maybe they should just be repossessed, with the gypsies in the caravans.
[20:59] <WILLdude> The gypsies are then killed in a manner proportional to the amount of crime they had commited.
[20:59] <WILLdude> But hey, that's just me.
[21:00] Action: mfa298 isn't sure this is the sort of conversation that should be happening here.
[21:00] <mattbrejza> WILLdude: might have been reading the daily mail too much
[21:00] <Upu> lol
[21:00] <lz1dev> he might be working for the daily mail
[21:00] <lz1dev> :P
[21:01] <eroomde> maybe just have it on #high
[21:01] <WILLdude> I hate the daily mail.
[21:04] <WILLdude> Daily Mail just takes it too far.
[21:05] <mfa298> most of what you've just said looks very much like it could have just come straight from the daily fail
[21:06] <mattbrejza> you should give them some tips on constraint
[21:07] <mattbrejza> (there is probably a better word there)
[21:07] <chrisstubbs> Well done giffgaff, entire network is down :P
[21:08] <mattbrejza> one bit of hardware dies and the whole network goes down :/
[21:10] <mfa298> so which bird of prey are they blaming it on
[21:11] <craag> lol
[21:13] <chrisstubbs> data appears to be working, all is not lost
[21:14] <mfa298> when I tried giffgaff back in the summer their data service seemed to be pretty poor.
[21:15] <chrisstubbs> its okay i guess, ping is quite slow compared to orange
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[21:15] <chrisstubbs> O2/gg seem to be the only network with decent coverage round my way
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[21:16] <Willdude123> Hi.
[21:16] <Steffanx> Lo.
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[21:19] <Willdude123> What?
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> just liked the response
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[21:32] <mattbrejza> dont you love it when a datasheet doesnt state the current/power consumption of a device ¬.¬
[21:33] <mattbrejza> but i get the impression its 'not that much'
[21:34] <mattbrejza> will have to do i suppose
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[21:36] <SP9UOB_Tom> night all
[21:36] <chrisstubbs> what are you working on mattbrejza?
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[21:36] <mattbrejza> a board that has lots of ADC inputs
[21:36] <mattbrejza> so i have a super nice ADC
[21:36] <mattbrejza> but no power stats
[21:36] <mattbrejza> well i have its analogue current consumption
[21:38] <chrisstubbs> HAB related data logger?
[21:38] <mattbrejza> yea
[21:38] <chrisstubbs> Nice
[21:38] <mattbrejza> also interfaces very nicely with those PT100 sensors Ed was talking about
[21:39] <eroomde> the shizzle
[21:40] <mattbrejza> anyone know any low noise step ups?
[21:40] <mattbrejza> although im guessing depends on the size of your inductor mostly
[21:40] <eroomde> and layout
[21:40] <eroomde> but do LC filtering on o/p
[21:40] <mattbrejza> yea i have ferrites
[21:40] <eroomde> and then maybe LDO after that if you really care
[21:40] <mattbrejza> and then a linear reg
[21:41] <eroomde> and then maybe active decoupling after the LDO if you really really care
[21:41] <mattbrejza> with a 16bit ADC should make the effort
[21:41] <mattbrejza> active decoupling?
[21:41] <eroomde> but that's more for like VCOs on lab instruments
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[21:41] <mattbrejza> sounds like too much effort
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[21:41] <eroomde> VCC ---- 2n2222 ---- filtered vcc
[21:42] <eroomde> and the base of the 2n2222 is driven by an rc filtter from vcc to gnd
[21:42] <eroomde> with a bias voltage
[21:42] <eroomde> so like
[21:42] <mattbrejza> sounds like a crude linear reg
[21:42] <eroomde> gnd --- R1 ---- base ---- R2||C1--- gnd
[21:42] <eroomde> sorry
[21:43] <mattbrejza> vcc - r1?
[21:43] <eroomde> vcc --- R1 ---- base ---- R2||C1--- gnd
[21:43] <mattbrejza> ok not that much effort then
[21:43] <eroomde> you'll see it in app notes for vco supplies and other things where you really really care
[21:43] <eroomde> but probably silly for a temp sensor
[21:44] <mattbrejza> btw thoughts on using a 3-wire or 4-wire arrangement for the PT100?
[21:44] <mattbrejza> one allows you to have a offset so you can get more gain, the other one uses one less current source
[21:44] <mattbrejza> one assumes the leads have the same resistance
[21:44] <Laurenceb__> Willdude is drunk?
[21:45] <mattbrejza> so i suppose depends what i want
[21:45] <eroomde> i usully just do 4
[21:45] <eroomde> but decision might be driven by your chipoid
[21:45] <mattbrejza> app notes have 2/3/4-wire appnotes
[21:45] <eroomde> i have always just done in the old fashioned way with my own constant current source and int amp
[21:45] <Laurenceb__> "<WILLdude> Daily Mail just takes it too far."..."<WILLdude> Hang their corpses, and use them on shooting practice ranges"
[21:45] <Laurenceb__> something does not make sense here :P
[21:46] <mattbrejza> i think ill just do 4-wire, and leave a current source free
[21:46] <mattbrejza> in the end thats gonna be the most noticable difference
[21:46] <Laurenceb__> PT100?
[21:46] <Laurenceb__> on how much cable?
[21:46] <mattbrejza> <1m
[21:46] <Laurenceb__> hmm
[21:46] <mattbrejza> like from a payload to the outside of the payload
[21:46] <Laurenceb__> cable resistance might not be too bad
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[21:47] <mattbrejza> still might as well 4-wire it, for the sake of two more bits of wire
[21:47] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[21:49] <eroomde> get some dual shielded twisted pair
[21:49] <eroomde> made out of solid money
[21:49] <Laurenceb__> or mogami microphone cable
[21:49] <Laurenceb__> i use it for everything
[21:49] <mattbrejza> ill just go looking for CAT5
[21:49] <mattbrejza> it just needs to be twisted
[21:50] <mattbrejza> differential measurements \o/
[21:50] <Laurenceb__> http://www.mogamicable.com/category/bulk/ultra_flex_mini/
[21:51] <Laurenceb__> linear tech make some nice stuff if you want differential ADC with PGA and filtering
[21:51] <mattbrejza> i could get a $100 monster network cable and cut the ends off and use that
[21:51] <Laurenceb__> or stm32F3...
[21:52] <Laurenceb__> lolz
[21:52] <mattbrejza> i was gonna use a lmp80090
[21:52] Action: Laurenceb__ googles
[21:52] <mattbrejza> oops
[21:52] <mattbrejza> lmp90080
[21:53] <Laurenceb__> niceee
[21:53] <mattbrejza> electronics is like no effort these days
[21:53] <Laurenceb__> i could use that on some of my projects
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/giIbEBW/new fun with PCBs
[21:54] <mattbrejza> its a 'i dont know what i want this for atm, but should be fine for most stuff' ADC
[21:54] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[21:54] <Laurenceb__> think ill stick with stm32f3 tho
[21:54] <eroomde> i use the AD7076
[21:54] <Laurenceb__> its has 16bit adc :P
[21:54] <eroomde> where that number is a guess
[21:55] <Laurenceb__> lol
[21:55] <eroomde> but the shape is a bit lik 7076
[21:55] <eroomde> but i can't remember exactly
[21:55] <mattbrejza> is that the 8 channel sim. sampling thing?
[21:55] <eroomde> yes
[21:55] <Laurenceb__> this is for pressure sensors?
[21:55] <eroomde> AD7606
[21:56] <eroomde> this is for many ting
[21:56] <eroomde> including pressure sensors
[21:56] <Laurenceb__> :P
[21:56] <Laurenceb__> "2nd order anti-alias filter,"
[21:56] <Laurenceb__> niceeeee
[21:56] <mattbrejza> built in AAF
[21:56] <eroomde> i do analog AA
[21:56] <eroomde> their builtin is wierd
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[21:56] <eroomde> the cutoff of their AAs is only like half the sample freq
[21:56] <eroomde> they are tied
[21:57] <eroomde> and the rollof is not good
[21:57] <eroomde> just odd
[21:57] <Laurenceb__> i see
[21:57] <eroomde> i want to sample at like 4x the cutoff freq of a good filter
[21:57] <eroomde> i did 4-pole bessel
[21:57] <eroomde> mit de opamps
[21:57] <eroomde> AD8510
[21:57] <eroomde> where that is a guess of the shape
[21:57] Action: Laurenceb__ just samples crazy fast with a 12bit adc on some of his projects
[21:57] <eroomde> yes that's the one
[21:58] <eroomde> nice low offset input opamps
[21:58] <eroomde> 2 poles per op amp, 2 opamps per channel. so 2 channels per ad8510
[21:58] <Laurenceb__> crazy oversampled 12bit adc ~= 16bit or so
[21:58] <eroomde> 8513 sorry
[21:58] <Laurenceb__> then anti-alias in software
[21:59] <mattbrejza> i used to remember how much oversampling you needed per bit resolution
[21:59] <mattbrejza> 4x per bit?
[21:59] <Laurenceb__> yes
[21:59] <mattbrejza> woop
[21:59] <Laurenceb__> its just basic statistics :P
[21:59] <Laurenceb__> variance is 1/sqrt(number of samples)
[21:59] <mattbrejza> yea i think i knew the proof at one point
[21:59] <Laurenceb__> and so on... i wont go into it :P
[22:00] <Laurenceb__> i remember this stuff via the proofs
[22:00] <mattbrejza> i can remember the odd bit of info like 4x
[22:00] <mattbrejza> and that the impedance of free space is 377ohm
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[22:03] <ramfly> When choosing a parachaute. What kind of decsent rate should I aim for?
[22:03] <Willdude123> I wonder if I'll always be tinkering with ntx2s and ublox modules without ever flying them.
[22:03] <mattbrejza> you can always attach it to your cat
[22:03] <Willdude123> True.
[22:03] <Willdude123> Bit heavy.
[22:04] <eroomde> ramfly: 5m/s
[22:04] <mattbrejza> should put it on a diet then
[22:04] <SpeedEvil> add a balloon. to counter some of the weight
[22:04] <ramfly> Great. That's about what I was thinking. I'm going to go for a 30" chute I think
[22:04] <Willdude123> I'd love to do a launch. I'll ask my parents if I can go to one sometime.
[22:06] <Willdude123> Meh.
[22:06] <mattbrejza> your school doesnt have money to throw at balloons?
[22:06] <Willdude123> No
[22:07] <Willdude123> If I launch, I'll have no need to just do other boring things everyone else does.
[22:07] <Willdude123> Such as:
[22:07] <mattbrejza> you can get money from people like the IOP, but you need to work with a teachr
[22:07] <Willdude123> Playing football.
[22:08] <Willdude123> Being too competitive.
[22:08] <Willdude123> Being obnoxious in class.
[22:08] <Willdude123> Drinking copious amounts of energy drink.
[22:08] Pricey (~pricey@freenode/staff/pricey) joined #highaltitude.
[22:08] <Willdude123> Getting a girlfriend.
[22:09] <natrium42> Willdude123: just do this http://i.imgur.com/cM1VN.jpg
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[22:10] <Willdude123> And a whole load of other wastes of time and productivity.
[22:10] <mattbrejza> urgh i want a linear step up to exist
[22:10] <mattbrejza> much easier to choose one that way
[22:11] <mattbrejza> you need to do some sport Willdude123 otherwise ull get fat
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[22:11] <mattbrejza> but kinda hard if they only offer football
[22:12] <K9JKM> Did you guys see this video yet?
[22:12] <K9JKM> http://www.southgatearc.org/news/april2013/essex_434_mhz_high_altitude_balloon_video.htm#.UXcHEEqUQQ8
[22:13] <Willdude123> Indoor football is okay I guess,
[22:14] <Laurenceb__> i think you are getting trolled
[22:14] <Willdude123> mattbrejza: I'm already fat.
[22:14] <Willdude123> Laurenceb_:: who?
[22:14] <Laurenceb__> YOU
[22:14] <Laurenceb__> anyway im getting some sleep
[22:14] <Laurenceb__> cya
[22:14] <Laurenceb__> have fun
[22:14] <Willdude123> By whom and for what reason?
[22:15] <mattbrejza> Laurenceb__ can tell by the pixels and having seen many in his time
[22:16] <Willdude123> Basically habbing is an alternative to having a life.
[22:16] <mattbrejza> also bed sounds like a good idea, looking through parametric listings for components while tired doesnt work well
[22:17] <mattbrejza> there is time for all
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[23:19] <natrium42> LiraNuna: did you get a height ajustable desk?irc
[23:20] <natrium42> wrong channel, sorry
[23:20] <natrium42> WILLdude: how old are you?
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[00:00] --- Wed Apr 24 2013