highaltitude.log.20130422

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[03:52] <natrium42> nice, was reading an article and noticed they used cuddykid's photo http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/348515
[03:52] <natrium42> from HABE5
[03:55] <arko> hah@
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[06:22] <eroomde> yoyo
[06:26] <arko> sup
[06:28] <eroomde> i have awken
[06:28] <eroomde> that's about it so far today
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[06:28] <arko> i cant help think of Metalocalpse
[06:28] <arko> and their song Awaken
[06:29] <arko> everytime i hear tha word.. good times
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[06:29] <arko> so i got my fpga stuff working
[06:29] <arko> the other good news is that i've stopped accidentally writing VHDL in my Verilog
[06:30] <eroomde> nice
[06:30] <nosebleedkt> hi all :D
[06:30] <eroomde> what is your stuff?
[06:30] <eroomde> do you get to use pleasing gold space-grade FPGAs?
[06:31] <arko> man i wish
[06:31] <arko> this is for my school lab
[06:31] <arko> very unsatifying
[06:31] <arko> but fun regardless
[06:31] <arko> i wish i had rad-hardened FGPA's
[06:31] <eroomde> http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3u18kp/
[06:32] <arko> lol
[06:33] <arko> scumbag rad hardware http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3u18lb/
[06:34] <arko> also, i ran into issues sampling buttons at 50Mhz
[06:34] <arko> that was fun
[06:35] <eroomde> wyzat?
[06:35] <arko> not sure
[06:35] <arko> had pulldown resistors
[06:35] <arko> and it still was acting weird
[06:36] <arko> i wonder if it was acting funny because it was falling into the rf domain
[06:36] <arko> sampling at 100khz and it worked fine
[06:36] <eroomde> mmm, could be all sorts
[06:37] <eroomde> funky traces would be enough to cause bounce
[06:37] <eroomde> get a decent scope on it
[06:37] <arko> yeah
[06:37] <arko> the tektronix i use is in downtown
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[06:37] <eroomde> my leica fund is sharing space with an Agilent 3034
[06:37] <arko> haha
[06:38] <arko> i love those scopes
[06:38] <arko> we have them at school
[06:38] <arko> but so dam expensive
[06:39] <eroomde> yep
[06:39] <eroomde> but nice
[06:39] <eroomde> so many funky trigger modes
[06:39] <eroomde> you can stabilise that shit no matter what
[06:39] <arko> love HP and it's branch off Agilent
[06:39] <arko> great equiptment
[06:39] <eroomde> you know about klabs.org yep?
[06:39] <eroomde> yes me too
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[06:41] <arko> oh wow
[06:41] <arko> Cassini
[06:41] <eroomde> it's like the ukhas wiki x100 for space electronics
[06:42] <arko> :O
[06:42] <arko> wow!
[06:42] <arko> how did i not know about this!?
[06:42] <arko> this is awesome!!
[06:42] <eroomde> it's a total hodepodge of gold
[06:43] Action: arko high fives eroomde
[06:44] <eroomde> coffee reading in the style of akin's laws
[06:44] <eroomde> http://klabs.org/richcontent/Misc_Content/Quotes.htm
[06:45] <arko> http://klabs.org/DEI/Processor/PowerPC/rad750/lesson_2041/index.htm
[06:45] <arko> oh neat
[06:46] <eroomde> I can never afford this rad hard crap
[06:46] <eroomde> and trying to harden each transistor seems to me like trying to make each hard disc platter perfect
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[06:46] <eroomde> rather than just accepting the false read rate and doing good systematic error correction
[06:47] <arko> well
[06:47] <arko> that is implemented regardless actually
[06:47] <arko> spaceX does the same
[06:47] <arko> they just fly redudant and reset
[06:47] <eroomde> but with rad-hardened stuff?
[06:47] <arko> nah
[06:47] <arko> they dont have any
[06:48] <arko> also, tons of error correction with rad-hard stuff
[06:48] <arko> all sorts of good practice and compensation
[06:48] <arko> the real problem is damage
[06:48] <arko> not so much correction
[06:49] <eroomde> interesting
[06:49] <arko> think about a mosfet getting hit
[06:49] <arko> you can burn it up
[06:49] <arko> super easy
[06:50] <eroomde> so which bit to they hit?
[06:50] <eroomde> so they break through the gate insulation?
[06:50] <arko> say it knocks the silicon, pulls charge to high energy states
[06:51] <arko> butt loads of current
[06:51] <Darkside> hrm
[06:51] <Darkside> you cans ee how it'd screw up flash too
[06:51] <Darkside> with floating gagtes
[06:51] <arko> burn a hole in the thin foil aluminum gate
[06:51] <Darkside> floating gates
[06:51] <Darkside> it'd just discharge the gate
[06:51] <eroomde> yeah i can understand memeory
[06:51] <arko> memory for sure
[06:51] <arko> it's some nasty stuff
[06:52] <arko> sometimes it could be simple
[06:52] <eroomde> well i guess i can understand all of it. just makes you realise how much energy there is to destroy quite a large surface area of fet silicon
[06:52] <arko> like say a gate that's tied to the 1.8v fpga vcc line
[06:52] <arko> if there is even a slight voltage increase, it could burn out the whole fpga
[06:52] <arko> so voltage spikes can be damaging
[06:53] <arko> yeah, it's a lot of energy
[06:53] <arko> its not really worth it to go rad-hard for anything out of LEO
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[06:54] <arko> earths mag field protects you quite a bit
[06:54] <eroomde> i was just thinking that
[06:54] <arko> anything out of the van allan belt and you better be flying rad-hard
[06:54] <arko> there are some really bad particles out there
[06:54] <eroomde> can you have some cap discharge to an electromagnet that blips a huge short duration field to deflect stuff from the chip
[06:54] <eroomde> without inducing massive voltages in the chip itself :D
[06:55] <arko> there are techniques out there
[06:55] <arko> lots
[06:55] <arko> but there is only so much you can do
[06:55] <fsphil> mini aurora
[06:56] <eroomde> i have heard the environment is much noiser for hab things at the poles
[06:56] <arko> eroomde: thats totally a technique used
[06:56] <arko> aurora hab would be epic
[06:57] <eroomde> i think the stabilised platform to catch a total solar eclipse idea is so epic as to be mandatory-necessary
[06:57] <arko> :O
[06:57] <arko> love it
[06:57] <arko> someone do it!
[06:58] Action: x-f checks the schedule for next eclipse.
[06:58] <arko> May 10
[06:59] <arko> OZ people!!
[06:59] <arko> Darkside:
[06:59] <arko> its up to you
[06:59] <arko> you have a mission now
[06:59] <arko> Good luck, we are all counting on you
[06:59] <Darkside> ?
[06:59] <arko> http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/OH/OHfigures/OH2013-Fig02.pdf
[06:59] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3740895090/in/set-72157621752577188/
[06:59] <Darkside> may 10th when
[06:59] <eroomde> but with totality
[06:59] <eroomde> i NEED this photo
[06:59] <Darkside> arko: annular
[06:59] <x-f> Darkside, this year
[06:59] <Darkside> not total
[07:00] <arko> ah damn it
[07:00] <Darkside> also do you realise how car away that path is from where i live?
[07:00] <Darkside> thats like 2000km
[07:00] <Darkside> more i think
[07:00] <arko> psshh
[07:00] <arko> you can walk that
[07:00] <arko> no big deal
[07:00] <eroomde> "I'm still not entirely sure what klabs *is*, but I do know it is exactly the reason Tim Berners-Lee was brought into this world."
[07:00] <Darkside> 2100km
[07:01] <eroomde> -- R. Goodwins in sci.space.history, February 2005
[07:01] <arko> hahaha
[07:01] <Darkside> so yeah
[07:01] <LazyLeopard> Heh. Australia's not small.
[07:01] <Darkside> anyway, its just an annual
[07:01] <Darkside> 0.9544
[07:01] <Darkside> not enough
[07:01] <eroomde> we need to find a total one
[07:01] <arko> eroomde: http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEplot/SEplot2001/SE2015Mar20T.GIF
[07:01] <eroomde> over soewhere we can launch
[07:01] <arko> now it's up to you!
[07:01] <eroomde> that's not near me...
[07:02] <eroomde> unless we go to soviet russia
[07:02] <eroomde> or mongolia
[07:02] <eroomde> they have lots of flat planes
[07:02] <arko> total is north of UK
[07:02] <arko> isnt it?
[07:03] <eroomde> yep
[07:03] <eroomde> i don;t want to ditch thing thing into the sea
[07:03] <eroomde> it'll be no ordinary hab
[07:04] <eroomde> it'll be SLR and actively stabilised
[07:05] <x-f> make it amphibia and Kraken II
[07:05] <arko> ohh
[07:06] <arko> that would sweet
[07:06] <arko> damn it bonny tyler
[07:06] <arko> no google, i dont want to listen to total eclipse of the heart
[07:07] <eroomde> have you heard the literal version?
[07:07] <arko> nope
[07:07] <arko> http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEplot/SEplot2001/SE2017Aug21T.GIF
[07:07] <arko> damn it
[07:07] <arko> it's up to me now
[07:07] <arko> what mess i got myself into this time
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[07:08] <arko> wow
[07:08] <arko> this is amazing
[07:09] <eroomde> so through the midwest in 2017?
[07:09] <arko> yeah
[07:09] <eroomde> wow
[07:09] <eroomde> ok
[07:09] <eroomde> that's our target peeps
[07:09] <arko> yep
[07:09] <eroomde> 2017
[07:09] <arko> i will fly out to try myself
[07:09] <eroomde> there will be a world armada
[07:10] <eroomde> that's a bit hurrican season in the corridor isn't it?
[07:10] <eroomde> so we might want to be more west-coast
[07:10] <eroomde> and the landscape is nicer anyway
[07:10] <arko> yikes
[07:10] <arko> screw midwest weather
[07:10] <arko> this video eroomde, so amazing
[07:11] <eroomde> fsphil: you in?
[07:12] <arko> alright, time to go home and sleep
[07:12] <arko> night yall!
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[07:47] <fsphil> yep eroomde, should be just about recovered from funding the last eclipse trip
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[08:23] <Babs> Ping Upu (or Upu_work for that matter)
[08:33] <UpuWork> morning Babs
[08:36] <Babs> ahhh, Upuwork not Upu_work. Morning Anthony - quick q
[08:36] <UpuWork> shoot
[08:36] <Babs> have you flown a cutdown yet and if so have you got an image of how you mounted it?
[08:36] <UpuWork> personally no
[08:37] <UpuWork> but depends on the type
[08:37] <UpuWork> usually just above the parachute
[08:37] <Babs> I'm going to use one of those pyros I built
[08:37] <Babs> in a polystyrene ball a la your aprs combi tracker of last week
[08:38] <UpuWork> well it needs to be somewhere above the parachute
[08:38] <UpuWork> so it disconnects the balloon from the rest of the arrangement
[08:38] <Babs> with the pyro mounted in the end of it, wires in the polystyrene ball so stop them being strained
[08:39] <Babs> yep, going to be above the parachute (and a few metres above it judging by the plastic I got imbedded in the fence at home from when the thing blew (!)
[08:39] <Babs> *embedded
[08:40] <Babs> just wondered whether there was any photos of how people had stopped the metal wires twisting under load
[08:40] <Babs> Robert Harrison refers to it cryptically on his flickr site
[08:40] <Babs> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/3602260499/
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[08:41] <UpuWork> its a good point but I've not seen anything to address that
[08:41] <UpuWork> yeah they go off :)
[08:41] <Babs> b of the bang. I've seen your youtube video too.
[08:42] <UpuWork> I'm uncomfortable with flying them
[08:42] <UpuWork> I'd rather just over fill the balloon and have it burst early
[08:42] <Babs> I'm going to do both
[08:43] <Babs> there is more redundancy in BABSHAB than in a branch of HMV
[08:43] <UpuWork> just make sure it blows the pyro in the air regardless
[08:43] <UpuWork> and put something in the code to ensure it knows its above a certain altitude
[08:43] <UpuWork> i.e if sats >=4
[08:44] <UpuWork> you don't want a duff reading causing it to fire on the ground
[08:44] <Babs> Not sure I can get the geofence thang done in time. I still haven't had chance to test the code we were discussing a few weeks ago.
[08:45] <Babs> But I might do it on a 2 hour arduino timer on, for example, a 3-hour flight to make sure it pops up there
[08:46] <eroomde> i have flown and blown many tens of that style of pyro. one technique to stop twistage is to run tape or webbing or tubular stuff (rather than just braid) as the rigging yp to the chute and pyro. that is far more resistant to twisting
[08:46] <Babs> Do you have a photo eroomde?
[08:46] <eroomde> nope
[08:46] <eroomde> this is from like 2007
[08:46] <eroomde> beyond the half life of digital recording for teenage/student me
[08:47] <eroomde> but tubular kevlar i commend as a good thing
[08:47] <Babs> ahh, the days when you used to have to delete stuff to make space
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[08:47] <eroomde> because you can do proper loop terminations (rather than knots) and generally all sorts of other advantages. i might have some phots of that
[08:47] <Babs> Did you just use a timer fuse or a geofence?
[08:47] <eroomde> have used both before
[08:47] <eroomde> and uplinks
[08:48] <Babs> uplink would be cool. so little time!
[08:48] <eroomde> uplinks to make everything a lot easier
[08:48] <UpuWork> timers are bad
[08:48] <UpuWork> especially when launch takes longer than you expect
[08:49] <eroomde> i think i used a remove-before-flight pull-link
[08:49] <eroomde> to put the thing into flight mode
[08:49] <Babs> agreed UpuWork. I am going to have 2 pp3 clips outside the ball, and then clip them together to boot up the arduino as the last thing on my check list (its separate from the flight computer)
[08:50] <Babs> eroomde - looks like trying to achieve the same thing as my pp3 clip method
[08:50] <eroomde> yus
[08:50] <mfa298> I think the SHARP team last year did a cut down based on the actual time which wasn't that successful due to the amount of faffing they did on the ground before hand
[08:50] <eroomde> there is not a good pull-to-make robust switch, as far as i can see
[08:50] <eroomde> on the market, i mean
[08:50] <eroomde> i.e. a tag you can yank out that will make a good positive engagement
[08:50] <Babs> then the only way it could go wrong (remember these famous last words) is to have a bad fill and the thing come down sooner than you thing
[08:50] <Babs> *think
[08:50] <eroomde> i've had use for such a think on many occassions but never found one
[08:50] <daveake> When I did a cutdown with a timer, the timer started at 2000m
[08:51] <Babs> I've got a couple of pp3 clips, just going to use that I think
[08:51] <daveake> The bit I missed was to disable the timer after landing :)
[08:51] <eroomde> i always put an isolating arm switch on any pyro systems
[08:51] <daveake> Fortunately that was a nichrome cutdown not pyro
[08:51] <eroomde> it's not safe to not, really
[08:51] <UpuWork> I've seen one of Steve's pyros go off on the ground due to a time out
[08:51] <daveake> and heard
[08:51] <UpuWork> that made everyone jump
[08:52] <daveake> I bet
[08:52] <Babs> Hi daveake - i actually have a bit of code that fsphil and upu helped me with but haven't had time to test it that doesn't allow a fire if no lock/under min altitude/satellites below 4 etc. etc.
[08:52] <daveake> btw your book will be in the post today I packed/stamped it at the time but forgot to actually post it
[08:53] <eroomde> that's happened (not to mine!) several times in habs i've been involved with
[08:53] <eroomde> for a number of reasons
[08:53] <eroomde> it's not cool to not have a before-flight arming procedure
[08:53] <Babs> I have a great video of me cr@pping myself setting one off on my terrace at home
[08:53] <Babs> daveake - thanks, much appreciated
[08:54] <eroomde> a subtlety with the lock thing
[08:54] <eroomde> or rather, an indcident where a fire if(fire_condition && good_lock) might fail
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[08:55] <UpuWork> I appreciate why you're putting a pyro on but I wouldn't fly an explosive one
[08:56] <vk3yt> evening/morning upu
[08:56] <Babs> Code here - http://shortText.com/1bEx80
[08:56] <UpuWork> hey vk3yt
[08:56] <eroomde> (this was the cause of one pyro-in-face-incident): having onboard landing prediction code that works by measureing the winds on the way up, and assuming they're the same on the way down and so keeping a rolling updated 'i will land x meter east and y meters N of here' score, is to not even start that bit of code until you get a good lock either
[08:56] <Babs> Understood Upu - I'll have a think about it
[08:57] <eroomde> because such a bit of code was on a payload a few years ago with a pyro cutdown, and it was being integrated on the table outside and went from a position of 00.000, 00.000 to suddently having a lock at elsworth in the space of one second
[08:57] <eroomde> so the payload thought it was moving at 40,000km per second
[08:57] <eroomde> and decided then that it would definitely lan d outside its onboard geofence so it had better cutdown now
[08:57] <Babs> Those jetstreams can be quite powerful eroomde
[08:58] <Babs> 40,000km/s is Superman-esque
[08:58] <UpuWork> are you using software serial ?
[08:58] <eroomde> and so blew up when someone was fiddling with it on the payload
[08:58] <eroomde> they had ringing in their ears for a bit
[08:58] <Babs> Upuwork - yes for the GPS
[08:59] <UpuWork> ok in that case I really wouldn't put anything explosive on there
[08:59] <UpuWork> nichrome
[08:59] <UpuWork> fine
[08:59] <Babs> but i haven't even had chance to do a walkaround test with that with an LED yet
[08:59] <UpuWork> but explosive absolutely not
[08:59] <eroomde> i think software serial is fine if you do it properly
[08:59] <eroomde> this isn't so much about rules and religion as just thoroughly testing
[08:59] <UpuWork> yes if but TinyGPS does some odd stuff
[08:59] <UpuWork> yeah sure this is just my opinion
[09:00] <UpuWork> I'm a nervous flyer
[09:00] <UpuWork> :)
[09:00] <Babs> i think its whether I fly the cutdown at all, but if I do given time constraints it wont be gps based, only timer based. And then if timer based, conscious of the discussion on here today so will have to have a think about it.
[09:00] <UpuWork> try watching your ball of H2 bounce along the ground for 1km
[09:00] <fsphil> timer based can be annoying if your launch is late
[09:00] <fsphil> or you abort and forget to stop the timer
[09:00] <eroomde> unless it's based on something you do just before letting go
[09:01] <fsphil> yea, release a safety plug
[09:01] <Babs> If its filled correctly (and then a bit more) then chance of float probably minimal anyway.
[09:01] <eroomde> obviously you do have to remember to plug it back in :)
[09:01] <Babs> If the pyro is encased within a polystyrene ball its all encased anyway (I guess)
[09:01] <fsphil> you can bring a few wires out
[09:01] <number10> a certain person forgot to disable thier one and it went off in the car - was only nichrome though
[09:01] <Babs> akthough my nano would be toasted quite nicely.
[09:02] <daveake> number10 How silly .... :)
[09:02] <number10> :)
[09:02] <number10> no names mentioned
[09:02] <eroomde> there's a lot of value in a laminated pre-and-post launch checklist
[09:03] <Babs> and one of these judging by the bad experiences on here this morning http://www.fernbyfilms.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/the-hurt-locker-pic1.jpg
[09:03] <vk3yt> Thanks guys for linking APRS to spacenear.us yesterday for PSB
[09:04] <fsphil> was an interesting flight vk3yt
[09:04] <fsphil> it seemed reluctant to come back down
[09:05] <vk3yt> Yes it was. We started with wind blowing the first balloon on the ground and bursted it
[09:05] <eroomde> Babs: have found an old external hdd
[09:05] <eroomde> let me find some stuff
[09:05] <eroomde> s
[09:05] <eroomde> you will notice i am not such a cautious flyer as others
[09:06] <vk3yt> We couldn't have wind clearance until 3pm
[09:07] <UpuWork> oh welcome vk3yt
[09:07] <UpuWork> reminds me I need to turn it off
[09:07] <vk3yt> then it decided to fly back to Melbourne, the second most populous city in Aus
[09:07] <Babs> thats awesome, thanks eroomde - don't go to too much trouble though if its not immediately findable
[09:08] <vk3yt> we had to cut it down at 20km, before it get too close to the airport
[09:08] <Darkside> hey vk3yt
[09:08] <vk3yt> Hi Darkside
[09:08] <Darkside> i received it from mt lofty here, 700m ASL
[09:08] <Darkside> couldnt get a valid decode though
[09:08] <Darkside> didnt have a good enough antnena with me
[09:09] <Darkside> so yeah
[09:09] <Darkside> 100g floater
[09:09] <vk3yt> really? that is 600km away?
[09:09] <Darkside> good job on that :P
[09:09] <Darkside> yes
[09:09] <Darkside> well, 550km
[09:09] <Darkside> i think
[09:09] <Darkside> also you have a bug in your RTTY cofe
[09:09] <Darkside> code
[09:09] <Darkside> you're dropping leading zeros after the decimal point
[09:09] <UpuWork> oh you triggered a cut down ?
[09:09] <UpuWork> nice
[09:09] <Darkside> i.e. 0.0774 goes to 0.774
[09:09] <Darkside> thats why the position of the RTTY payload was so far out
[09:10] <eroomde> Babs: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9lc76dmutz2mt0m/CIMG0019.JPG
[09:11] <eroomde> that gives an exampler of proper loop termination of braids
[09:11] <eroomde> often called chinese finger terminations
[09:11] <eroomde> they're much stronger than knots, as a perfectage of the breaking strain of the raw material
[09:11] <eroomde> sort of 95% vs about 80% for the very best knots (and usually less)
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[09:12] <vk3yt_> Sorry Darkside, got disconnected
[09:13] <eroomde> this is a payload lofted. there is a cutdown above the predeployed chute. we just run the wires up one of the parachute rigging lines and up the canopy to the apex
[09:13] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/54g4cjwytt2a9s6/CIMG0037.JPG
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[09:13] <Darkside> vk3yt_: you have a bug in your code
[09:13] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jxtpm3zfoophzz3/01%20-%20Lift%20%28IMG_5399%29.JPG
[09:13] <vk3yt_> Yes we saw that
[09:13] <Darkside> you're dropping 0's after the decimal point in latitude/longiture
[09:13] <eroomde> same deal but with extra helicopter. pyros used to release in all cases
[09:13] <Darkside> basically: don't write your own float to string conversion
[09:14] <Darkside> if you're using floats that is
[09:14] <Babs> eroomde - that is badass. What was it cutting down, a giant Redwood?
[09:14] <vk3yt_> I only had APRS tracker with me, the other guys had RTTY. THey were asking me to cutdown early as they thought the balloon were going over the water
[09:14] <Darkside> well
[09:14] <Darkside> it floated at 20km
[09:14] <Darkside> so yeah
[09:15] <Darkside> and it floated on dusk, so it likely wouldnt have burst until morning
[09:15] <eroomde> Babs: hopefully not damaging anything...
[09:15] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/l65gvueif4rvqdt/04a%20-%20Test%20parachute%20flight%20%28IMG_5415%29.JPG
[09:15] <eroomde> with chute deployed
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[09:16] <UpuWork> how did you get it to float ? What was neck lift and payload weight
[09:16] <Babs> eroomde - How did you get into Cape Kennedy to steal that off the nearest Saturn V?
[09:17] <eroomde> contacts
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[09:18] <eroomde> there was an upward facing high speed camera beneath the parachute to films its deployment. here is the video from that camera when the chute is deployed from a standstill, from high altitude. you can see the pyro fragments in the first few frames of daylight
[09:18] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzEcSO6oDcY&list=UUDdAMHrUMRwFU3JafszKI2w&index=9
[09:18] <Babs> What were you testing?
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[09:18] <eroomde> parachute for the european space agency
[09:19] <eroomde> we thought we could use our scrappy band of student habbers to do Real Research (tm) so proposed this project
[09:19] <eroomde> deploying chutes in mars like conditions (mach 0.8, low dyankic pressure at high altitude etc)
[09:19] <Babs> I have parachute envy
[09:19] <eroomde> this was for ExoMars
[09:19] <Babs> and chinese finger termination envy
[09:20] <eroomde> chinese fingers are The Way To DO It
[09:20] <eroomde> you just need tubular stuff
[09:20] <eroomde> rather than braidy stuff
[09:20] <Babs> and not having a capsule shaped like thunderbird 3 envy
[09:20] <eroomde> important for this app because it was about 6kN dynamic peak inflation force when the chute deployed at transonic speeds
[09:21] <Babs> I understood approx one third of the words in that sentence
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[09:22] <eroomde> the parachute gave the payload a fuck of a yank
[09:22] <eroomde> about 100g
[09:22] <Babs> pah, I'm only joking. by the transonic thing I presume you mean you were testing it for an entry somewhere other than earth?
[09:22] <eroomde> when it deployed
[09:22] <eroomde> yes
[09:23] <Babs> cool
[09:23] <eroomde> we were trying to mimic the conditions you'd encouter on mars. a parachute exerts its peak force when it opens, which is higher than the equilibrium force it generates at the same speed
[09:23] <Babs> I thought i recognised it http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/files/2012/08/hirise_curiosity_parachute.jpg&imgrefurl=http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/08/06/mars-orbiter-catches-pic-of-curiosity-on-its-way-down/&h=401&w=610&sz=69&tbnid=-seK9_5u0l1dAM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=137&zoom=1&usg=__uxb16F1fDgmEGrNfUvdsYFW3I5o=&docid=zN8nV9AZAvI4YM&sa=X&ei=kgF1UcpFqpLsBvrQgdgJ&ved=0C
[09:24] <Babs> that remains one cool photo. when you read about the tolerances they had to get to to capture it it is mindblowing.
[09:24] <eroomde> but the exact shape of that force profile depends on a bunch of things like speed and mach number and mass ratio (a measure of the ratio of the mass of air entrained by the chute vs the mass of the payload, which affects how quickly it decelerates)
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[09:24] <eroomde> and it's very difficult if not impossible to do it in a wind tunnel, but the top of earth's atmosphere does a passable job
[09:25] <SpeedEvil> fuuunky. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_DgFzqTsdc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
[09:25] <Babs> right, I have to leave parachutes and get back to excel modelling. interesting! thanks for finding the pyro photo.
[09:26] <SpeedEvil> solar quadcopter ^
[09:27] <Steffanx> lol that thing flies :S
[09:28] <eroomde> lates
[09:28] <SpeedEvil> if you do the numbers, it's not quite insane
[09:28] <Steffanx> Now take it outside :)
[09:28] <SpeedEvil> I was doing similar ones for a magic carpet
[09:29] <qyx_> probably it doesn't have enough lift to carry accumulators
[09:29] <SpeedEvil> as you drop the exhaust velocity of the fans, power needed gets quite low
[09:29] <qyx_> so falls down if sun goes away
[09:29] <eroomde> i'm enjoying going through this old hdd. 3kg balloons are big! https://www.dropbox.com/s/ladar503wepcp8o/CIMG0031.JPG
[09:29] <Darkside> jaysis
[09:29] <SpeedEvil> but, a helicopter with (say
[09:29] <Darkside> jaysus
[09:30] <Darkside> thats insane
[09:30] <SpeedEvil> 5m/s exhaust velocity, while twchbicakky possible, and very low power will only work in winds of well under 1m/s or so
[09:30] <SpeedEvil> well.
[09:31] <SpeedEvil> I point to our resident nutters design for a solar powered thermal rocket :-)
[09:31] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[09:32] <SpeedEvil> my search on eBay for triple junction solar keeps not firing
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[09:39] <kokey> I'd be a bit nervous if that big balloon was filled with hydrogren
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[09:46] <SpeedEvil> hydrogen is quite safe till you get about 6% of air in it
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> that is a lot of air
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> you pretty' much need gross holes to get air inside the balloon
[09:47] <cuddykid> someone pointed out this article this morning - http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/348515 - uses one of my pics :)
[09:47] <SpeedEvil> and if you have gross holes in a latex balloon, you don't have a balloon in the next several milliaeconeda
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[11:56] <_markh_> I'm using a Arduino Pro mini to control my payload. All the s/w is working on a Duemilenova. Just wondering whether to attach sensors on flyleads or engineer something cunning using header pins as lego...
[11:57] <daveake> One of my attempts at the latter - http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=310 :)
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[12:03] <_markh_> daveake: Cool, Presumably only some pins off each lined up and some were wired. Any idea of what percentage you had to wire?
[12:04] <_markh_> I have the same radio and GPS, different temp/pressure sensor
[12:04] <daveake> Yeah it took a while to find the optimal layout :-). The rfm was the worst and at a guess I had to wire about half the lines
[12:06] <daveake> This one's a bit clearer to see what needed wires http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=277
[12:07] <daveake> The wiring side is a bit fiddly
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[12:24] <_markh_> That's really good. I was thinking I'd have to wire some. I'll have a play around tonight and see how it might hang together. Good write up.
[12:26] Nick change: MichaelC|Sleep -> MichaelC
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[12:35] <WILLdude> Yo.
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[12:43] <eroomde> yo WILLdude
[12:43] <eroomde> WILL.I.HAB
[12:43] <costyn> haha
[12:44] <mattbrejza> eroomde: stumbled along this: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lmp90079.pdf
[12:44] <mattbrejza> makes PT100 sensors no effort (amlost)
[12:45] <Darkside> mattbrejza: do you have any pics of your weenie msp430 SoC board?
[12:46] <mattbrejza> ive only just bothered getting a imgur account so ive got to look through my emails...
[12:47] <eroomde> oh nice
[12:47] <eroomde> so it has the constant current source built in?
[12:47] <mattbrejza> yep
[12:48] <mattbrejza> also it makes general ADC applications much easier
[12:48] <mattbrejza> (has a application note for RTD sensors)
[12:48] <mattbrejza> pg 45/46
[12:48] <mattbrejza> Darkside: http://imgur.com/a/SWyR6
[12:49] <Darkside> mattbrejza: cheers
[12:49] <mattbrejza> im making a rev 2 thats not so weenie though
[12:50] <mattbrejza> the front end can be simplified with a integrated balun/filter that you can get from farnell
[12:50] <Darkside> mattbrejza: was that 2 layers?
[12:50] <mattbrejza> yep
[12:50] <Darkside> cool
[12:50] <Darkside> got a link to the frontend thing?
[12:51] <mattbrejza> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=2031+202465&Ntk=gensearch&Ntt=balun&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial
[12:51] <mattbrejza> oops
[12:51] <mattbrejza> its changed
[12:52] <mattbrejza> 0896bm15a0001 is the 869 one though
[12:53] <mattbrejza> ull never guess what the 433 one is...
[12:53] <mattbrejza> 0433bm15a0001
[12:53] <Darkside> http://au.element14.com/johanson-technology/0433bm15a0001e/balun-433mhz-impedance-matched/dp/2148531
[12:54] <mattbrejza> yep
[12:54] <mattbrejza> i crystal pulled the cc430, but changing the frequency should work, but untested
[12:54] <Darkside> hrm
[12:55] <Darkside> so does the cc430 run off the same crystal as its PLLing from?
[12:55] <mattbrejza> yea (on mine)
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[12:55] <mattbrejza> but the cc430 has lots of clock options
[12:55] <Darkside> i guess the small variations you're doing arent going to affect the runtime of stuff as much
[12:56] <mattbrejza> na, the amount you pull is less than the variation between different units
[12:56] <Darkside> thought so
[12:57] <mattbrejza> btw that opamp you said can put out 40mW (AD8008?)
[12:57] <mattbrejza> do you just put a 50ohm resistor on the output and connect a antenna?
[12:58] <mattbrejza> or 20ohm and match it to 50ohm?
[12:58] <Darkside> 50 ohm i think
[12:58] <Darkside> cant remember much about it now
[12:59] <Darkside> i might have a circuit somewhere
[12:59] <mattbrejza> i was thinking the supply would need to be more to produce the required output swing at 50
[12:59] <Darkside> supply was 12v iirc
[12:59] <mattbrejza> yea 3.3V might be pushing it somewhat
[13:00] <mattbrejza> 5-12V supply range
[13:01] <mattbrejza> still much easier than designing a linear PA
[13:01] <Darkside> getting schematic
[13:02] <mattbrejza> thanks
[13:02] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/n7MSgCE.png
[13:02] <mattbrejza> so two filters and then 50ohm output resistor
[13:02] <mattbrejza> seems simple enough
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[13:03] <Darkside> i got that from.. something else
[13:03] <Darkside> cant remember now
[13:03] <Darkside> it works pretty nicely though
[13:03] <Darkside> that took the output from a DDS
[13:03] <Darkside> an AD9835
[13:03] <mattbrejza> yea im using a DAC and FPGA
[13:03] <mattbrejza> just need to get round to doing it
[13:04] <Darkside> lol FPGA
[13:04] <Darkside> wry
[13:04] <Darkside> low power single chip solution dude
[13:04] <Darkside> AD9834
[13:04] <griffonbot> @adamcudworth: Picked up my hydrogen regulator - almost ready to replace He with H2. #ukhas http://t.co/BQOnyjGtTO [http://twitter.com/adamcudworth/status/326320611108470784]
[13:04] <Darkside> though i guess it depends waht you want to do
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[13:04] <Darkside> fast PSK is difficult on the AD9834
[13:04] <mattbrejza> you can get some pretty decent fpgas these days im led to believe
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[13:04] <Darkside> 'clean' PSK31 is very possible on it though
[13:04] <Darkside> very very possible
[13:05] <Darkside> in fact i've done it. with a Class-E amplitifer
[13:05] <Darkside> amplifier*
[13:05] <Darkside> :P
[13:05] <Darkside> yes, PSK through a nonlinear amp
[13:05] <mattbrejza> do you have to step the phase in little steps?
[13:05] <Darkside> yup
[13:05] <Darkside> optimised phase shaping
[13:05] <Darkside> still working on the optimal bit
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[13:05] <Darkside> its a really scrwewed up optimisation problem
[13:05] <Darkside> anyhoo
[13:06] <Darkside> i get a reasonable output with a simple raised cosine transition
[13:06] <mattbrejza> yea i was going for the classic waveform -> cosine filter -> mix
[13:06] <Darkside> its not perfect though
[13:06] <Darkside> but nice enough that i'd probably be willing to use it in the 40m PSK segment
[13:06] <Darkside> ant not get yelled at
[13:06] <mattbrejza> i want to see how far i can push it though, so id be going faster than psk31
[13:06] <Darkside> well i've done PSK250 using the same method
[13:07] <Darkside> it just looks like crsp
[13:07] <Darkside> crap
[13:07] <mattbrejza> 27MHz ISM here
[13:07] <Darkside> oh
[13:07] <Darkside> glhf
[13:07] <Darkside> no skywave for you
[13:07] <mattbrejza> yea
[13:07] <Darkside> not locally anyway
[13:07] <Darkside> you'll be running on LOS
[13:07] <mattbrejza> thers the 6 MHz HF ISM though
[13:07] <Darkside> now that would be more interesting
[13:07] <Darkside> however
[13:07] <mattbrejza> and yea was going for seeing how much throughput i could get LOS
[13:07] <Darkside> you can't fly any kind of antenna at that frequency that radiates up
[13:08] <Darkside> else you would get skywave
[13:08] <Darkside> whats the power limit on 6MHz?
[13:08] <mattbrejza> carbon nanotube horizontal antennas not made yet?
[13:08] <Darkside> lol
[13:08] <mattbrejza> 10mW
[13:08] <Darkside> oh
[13:08] <Darkside> nevermind then
[13:08] <Darkside> you won't get over local noise
[13:09] <mattbrejza> well 42uVdB @ 10m i think they give it as
[13:09] <mattbrejza> unit is probably wrong there
[13:09] <fsphil> S6 noise on 6mhz here
[13:09] <fsphil> but here was never very good for HF
[13:09] <Darkside> 42dBuV
[13:09] <mattbrejza> close :P{
[13:09] <Darkside> which is a bit over S9
[13:09] <Darkside> well, its S9+10dB it hink
[13:09] <Darkside> which is about -60dBm
[13:10] <Darkside> coupling to free space is -60dB or something i think
[13:10] <Darkside> so something like 0dBm output power
[13:10] <Darkside> or 1mW
[13:10] <mattbrejza> dont suppose youre going to that conference in budapest this year?
[13:10] <mattbrejza> a bit far for you
[13:10] <mattbrejza> ICC
[13:10] <Darkside> nah
[13:10] <Darkside> URSI is the one i want to go to
[13:10] <mattbrejza> ah
[13:11] <mattbrejza> i thought 42dBuV was 10mW when i looked at it
[13:11] <mattbrejza> because the 27MHz one is listed as 10mW/42dBuV
[13:15] <fsphil> poo, I made the same assumption
[13:15] <mattbrejza> i dont intend to look at 6MHz again though
[13:16] <mattbrejza> 10mW still isnt that much
[13:20] <gonzo__> think I calculated 42dBuV as 10mW
[13:24] <craag> mattbrejza: was 6MHz the one we were trying to pick up with the wire vertical on lanchester?
[13:24] <mattbrejza> yea
[13:24] <mattbrejza> that didnt go well
[13:25] <craag> And it got stomped on by some wideband data transmission
[13:25] <mattbrejza> thats also what happens when you dont launch your own payload (434MHz wasnt too great either)
[13:25] <mattbrejza> i think 27MHz is cleaner here though
[13:25] <craag> ah yeah, 433 signal was weak, and v rarely had gps lock I seem to remember
[13:26] <craag> 27Mhz is looking clean, I've been peeking at it occasionally.
[13:26] <mattbrejza> yea, look us a while to realise the antenna should be allowed to touch its ground plane
[13:26] <mattbrejza> got it back twice though :P
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[14:03] <mattbrejza> http://www.wmo.int/pages/prog/www/IMOP/meetings/Upper-Air/ET-IOC-3/Doc3.1%281%29.pdf
[14:04] <mattbrejza> old met office sondes ^
[14:04] <mattbrejza> they used to have a windmill on them as a 'timer'
[14:07] <costyn> mattbrejza: like bombs did? :)
[14:07] <mattbrejza> i didnt know that actually
[14:08] <Randomskk> mattbrejza: in that pdf, the page "Chinese secondary radar"
[14:08] <costyn> mattbrejza: that's how they exploded bombs before they hit the ground, by a simple propeller which tightened a nut into the trigger
[14:08] <Randomskk> that's one hell of a 434MHz Yagi stack in the background!
[14:09] <mattbrejza> that must work very nicely :P
[14:09] <mattbrejza> well i suppose its not suprising bearing in mind they had no timing electronics
[14:09] <Babs> Page 22 is an oft neglected part of HABing. The "relaxation room"
[14:10] <mattbrejza> cant see them putting valves on these things
[14:10] <Randomskk> could just have a big capacitor maybe
[14:10] <Randomskk> but yea
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[14:19] <eroomde> next gen beaglebone $45
[14:19] <eroomde> that's rediculous
[14:19] <eroomde> they're so so much better than Pis too
[14:19] <eroomde> so ridiculous i have to spell it rediculous
[14:20] <Randomskk> and with nice headers and all
[14:20] <eroomde> and proper PSUs
[14:20] <nommo> I think you'll find it's redonkulous
[14:20] <Randomskk> not sure how I feel about their weirdly kubrick esque marketing
[14:21] <Randomskk> so it's dual core with a third CM3 power management core? weird but cool
[14:21] <eroomde> indeed
[14:21] <eroomde> TCXOs ahve gotted cheaper
[14:21] <eroomde> 16.368MHz = £3
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[14:22] <Laurenceb> ooh
[14:22] <Laurenceb> HDMI
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[14:23] <Randomskk> the feature list just goes on and on
[14:23] <Randomskk> http://www.ti.com/product/am3359
[14:23] <HixWork> ello
[14:24] <eroomde> oh US stock
[14:24] <Randomskk> eroomde: http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=2291620
[14:24] <Randomskk> 2 may apparently, but £27
[14:24] <Laurenceb> insane
[14:24] <Laurenceb> Rpi is dead :P
[14:25] <Robint91> Randomskk, is that the new one?
[14:25] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: as if
[14:25] <Randomskk> Robint91: yes, hence it not being available until may 2 :P
[14:25] <Robint91> 19353 will be available for delivery on 3 May, 2013 -_-
[14:26] <Randomskk> still that's quite soon
[14:26] <Randomskk> not quite as much a media darling as the rpi
[14:26] <mattbrejza> they must have got a good price on the AM3359 from TI
[14:27] <Randomskk> 512MB DDR3 RAM
[14:27] <Robint91> mattbrejza, the AM335x is really cheap
[14:27] <Randomskk> 2GB onboard flash plus a µSD slot
[14:28] <mattbrejza> well $22 on TI's site
[14:28] <Robint91> mattbrejza, see that atmel cortex A5?
[14:28] <mattbrejza> nope
[14:28] <Randomskk> ooh, and the bb is 3.3V on all signals
[14:29] <Robint91> mattbrejza, http://www.atmel.com/microsite/sama5d3/default.aspx
[14:29] <Randomskk> though the ADC ports are 1v8 max
[14:29] <mattbrejza> cant say i have any use for that though :P
[14:29] <Randomskk> it has a 6pin FTDI-style serial header
[14:30] <Randomskk> also it makes the rpi look fat http://circuitco.com/support/index.php?title=File:CONN_REVA5A.jpg
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[14:32] <craag> That looks like it conceals some impressive routing
[14:32] <Randomskk> 6 layers too
[14:32] <costyn> micro hdmi and micro sd make more sense too, although I understand why they used the non-micro versions on the RPi
[14:32] <eroomde> v impressive
[14:33] <eroomde> i think we have there rev 1 of the realtime gps/inertial majigga
[14:33] <Randomskk> not fpga?
[14:34] <kokey> looks like it has two IDE controllers ;-)
[14:34] <Randomskk> kokey: yea it supports hardware RAID on them :P
[14:34] <Randomskk> takes up a lot of the board space but I'm sure it'l prove worthwhile
[14:34] <kokey> I guess those sockets are cheap to get
[14:34] <eroomde> fpga too
[14:34] <eroomde> there would be a daugher card
[14:34] <Randomskk> eroomde: would be really cool
[14:34] <eroomde> this would do the kalmanic irigation
[14:35] <Randomskk> had the 4F6 exam today, which is bill's
[14:35] <eroomde> fit a straight line to noisy data?
[14:35] <Randomskk> of course
[14:35] <eroomde> + the other 4
[14:35] <eroomde> or whatever
[14:35] <Randomskk> I swear it's just a photocopy of the last four years of exams
[14:35] <eroomde> that was by far my easiest exam
[14:35] <Randomskk> what were people's marks in it like?
[14:35] <eroomde> also when i went to the loo halfway through bill followed me to ask how it was going
[14:35] <eroomde> dunno in general. but my easiest 1st
[14:36] <Randomskk> yea, derive cramer-roe, prove nayman-fisher, talk about MAP/bayes/naymen-pearson, find a likelihood detector in gaussian noise, etc etc
[14:36] <Randomskk> didn't even have a gibbs sampler or maximum entropy distributions this year
[14:36] <Randomskk> haha nice
[14:36] <eroomde> i don't remember having it last year!
[14:36] <Randomskk> I was finished by halfway through >_>
[14:36] <eroomde> er, 3 years ago
[14:36] <eroomde> blimey
[14:36] <eroomde> what have i been doing
[14:36] <Randomskk> haha
[14:36] <Randomskk> time flies huh
[14:37] <eroomde> when you're layout out PCBs
[14:37] <Randomskk> sadly bill wasn't at the exam, I think sumeet was there in his place
[14:37] <Randomskk> but yea it's pretty rote stuff
[14:37] <kokey> just add a GSM module and an LCD screen and you have a very nice DIY mobile phone
[14:37] <Randomskk> more concerned about statistical pattern processing in two weeks' time
[14:37] <eroomde> that sounds like a toughy
[14:38] <Randomskk> 4F10, used to be mark gales'
[14:38] <kokey> will probably fit into a vitage nokia
[14:38] <Randomskk> til he left to do 4F13 which was even harder, but coursework only
[14:38] <Randomskk> reassuring to hear that f6 being easy doesn't also mean it's impossible to get good marks. was concerned it'd be curved all weird
[14:40] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ec2jY3oQoC0
[14:46] <cuddykid> that beagleBone looks fantastic
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[14:52] <Wolfy-K4GHL> Any of yall on know anything about receiving the phonesat sigs on UHF and decoding the telemetry from them?
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[14:54] <gonzo__> Wolfy-K4GHL, you probably want to ask on #hearsat (starchat)
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[15:01] <griffonbot> Received email: navrac "[UKHAS] Re: Altitude control with valve"
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[15:14] <costyn> Laurenceb: that's pretty cool. so that white thing is an alpha emitter?
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[15:29] <Randomskk> ls
[15:29] <Randomskk> uhm
[15:36] <fsphil> 0 files found
[15:40] <gonzo__> +++ Redo from start +++
[15:41] <mfa298> +++Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe And Reboot +++
[15:42] <fsphil> ls: Corrupted file system detected
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[15:43] <gonzo__> Out of cheese error
[15:43] <fsphil> good old Hex
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[16:21] <arko> morning
[16:22] <WILLdude> Hola!
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[16:25] <arko> sup willdude
[16:27] <WILLdude> Meh.
[16:27] <WILLdude> I'm stil confused about antennae.
[16:27] <arko> how they work or what to use?
[16:30] <WILLdude> The latter.
[16:30] <WILLdude> I have an awkwardly shaped house.
[16:30] <arko> hmm
[16:31] <arko> i used a mag mount on my roof for years, not the best
[16:31] <arko> but it worked
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[16:35] <WILLdude> Hah Putty is still technically in beta.
[16:36] <arko> oh putty
[16:36] <WILLdude> I mean PuTTY
[16:36] <arko> man, i 've recieved like 10 funding offers for my next HAB
[16:36] <arko> this is insane
[16:37] <WILLdude> Lucky.
[16:37] <WILLdude> By whom?
[16:38] <arko> mix of folks
[16:38] <arko> a few non-profits for teaching kids
[16:38] <arko> some friends
[16:39] <arko> and two companies you've probably never heard of
[16:39] <arko> ^ lol hipster
[16:41] <arko> Upu: i think im gonna send off the board this week
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[16:43] <Robint91> what is PSKR ?
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[16:46] <arko> PSK with some R in it
[16:47] <cuddykid> fsphil: any idea why when I call fswebcam it now for some reason tells me "postrm called with unknown argument '--font'" ?
[16:47] <arko> google says R stands for Robust
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[16:53] <WILLdude> arko: I'm very very jealous.
[16:53] <WILLdude> a) You have friends.
[16:53] <arko> im overwhelmed
[16:53] <WILLdude> b) You have funding.
[16:54] <WILLdude> c) You are allowed to do a flight.
[16:54] <arko> :) you'll get there dude
[16:54] <arko> sooner than you think
[16:55] <arko> friends are easy part, one you build a network people will know people with money
[16:55] <arko> bam, funding
[16:56] <arko> i think im going to take up the non-proft org that hit me up, they want to do a hab class at their community center
[16:56] <arko> middle school / high school kids
[16:56] <arko> if i can inspire one kid to go into engineering, i'll be happy
[16:57] <WILLdude> That's really cool.
[16:58] <Robint91> arko, some PSK with FEC?
[16:58] <arko> http://www.w1npp.org/ARES/topics/NBEMS-~1/FLDIGI/DIGITA~1/PSKDESC.HTM
[16:58] <arko> Robint91: ^
[16:59] <arko> i need coffee
[16:59] <Robint91> arko, yes
[16:59] <Robint91> FEC
[16:59] <arko> this morning isn't going to start itself
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[17:00] <arko> ohhh, you just gave me an idea
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[17:00] <Robint91> arko, SSDV over PSK500R?
[17:01] <arko> write an fpga program to take this hamming decoder module i wrote to decode packets
[17:01] <arko> oh thats an even better idea
[17:01] <arko> is PSK500R have error correction?
[17:01] <arko> i assume not
[17:01] <craag> yes
[17:01] <Robint91> arko, yep, R=1/2 K=7
[17:02] <arko> neat
[17:02] <Robint91> same like MFSK
[17:02] <arko> hah cool, i just found a page about it
[17:02] <arko> brb coffee
[17:03] <Robint91> "Any digital mode that can carry text or data can be used, although the current implementation is limited to 8-bit RTTY (Radio TeleTYpe)."
[17:03] <Robint91> silly FLDIGI
[17:04] <craag> Robint91: For ssdv?
[17:04] <Robint91> craag, yes
[17:05] <craag> It requires 8bit data, which makes using varicode-based modes difficult
[17:05] <Robint91> craag, base64?
[17:05] <Robint91> craag, It isn't ideal
[17:06] <Robint91> so ssdv packet -> base64 -> varicode -> base64 -> fldigi
[17:06] <craag> yuck
[17:07] <craag> You could modify PSKR to deal in 8-bit packets
[17:07] <craag> Seeing as you'll need to modify fldigi anyway.
[17:07] <Robint91> craag, the idea is not to touch the modulation
[17:08] <craag> Well you're not touching the modulation, just the text-encoding.
[17:09] <craag> But yes, you could do the base64, it just wouldn't be nearly as efficient.
[17:11] <Robint91> craag, but adding base64 to ssdv make it usable in almost every mode
[17:11] <Robint91> where as adapting a signle mode to do binary does not
[17:13] <craag> True
[17:13] <craag> But we really want the most bandwidth we can get, to get pictures down quicker, or with less errors.
[17:14] <craag> And base64 on top of varicode optimised for english text really doesn't help with that.
[17:19] <craag> It'll work, I'm just not a fan of using it over implementing it properly.
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[17:27] <arko> coffee aquired, mission accomplished
[17:27] <arko> acquired*
[17:29] <fsphil> craag: Robint91 for PSK modes I'd just skip the varicode totally and send raw ssdv bits
[17:30] <fsphil> cuddykid: I'm not sure what postrm is
[17:30] <craag> Yeah, that's what I meant.
[17:30] <fsphil> seems to be a debian thing
[17:30] <cuddykid> fsphil: I did another make install and seems to have done the job - looked like somehow it magically uninstalled itself
[17:30] <fsphil> ah
[17:30] <Robint91> fsphil, mhh
[17:31] <craag> The problem is that a lot of these modes use '00' to signal a character break.
[17:31] <cuddykid> not sure why it didn't give me "command not found" though..
[17:31] <fsphil> character break wouldn't matter too much, as rtty the text will just be nonsense
[17:31] <cuddykid> fsphil: am I correct in thinking if I just pipe bytes (in 256 chunks) from the ssdv output file over radio that should do the trick?
[17:32] <fsphil> cuddykid: yep. as long as each 256 packet is intact it'll work
[17:32] <cuddykid> excellent
[17:32] <fsphil> you could stream the whole lot in one go too
[17:32] <craag> fsphil: But then you have to run the checksum for each bit that comes in... at 250 baud.
[17:32] <cuddykid> still working on pi -> arduino comms - think I might have some sort of arduino tells pi it's ready for next chunk then pi sends
[17:34] <fsphil> craag: yea it would need to be done per-bit sadly
[17:34] <cuddykid> big problem is the lack of RAM on atmega to save all the data
[17:34] <eroomde> cuddykid: might be able to help you out with such a thing shortly
[17:35] <cuddykid> :)
[17:35] <fsphil> don't fancy driving the ntx2 from the pi?
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[17:36] <cuddykid> that was the first plan, then I thought it'd be best just to interface it with current flight comp and interleave packets and location data
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[17:36] <cuddykid> having to work with software serial might also prove a nightmare down the line - no problems just yet though
[17:37] <eroomde> i'm having layout fatigue
[17:37] <eroomde> it's all just slightly too small
[17:37] <eroomde> but to make the board bigger would be to admit defeat
[17:37] <eroomde> which one doesn't do
[17:38] <arko> i believe in you
[17:38] <cuddykid> haha, I know that feeling
[17:38] <Robint91> mhh
[17:38] <eroomde> arko: it's getting there infact
[17:38] <arko> you believe in yourself more importantly
[17:38] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/CHXSPyw.png
[17:38] <cuddykid> then UpuWork jumped in and saved me haha
[17:38] <bertrik> Is software serial that problematic? can't imagine it being too hard
[17:38] <eroomde> just need to get those 3 little passive in the bottom (inductor, big cap, small cap, for the pll supply) into a decent spot
[17:38] <cuddykid> bertrik: it's the reliability of it - often courses a lot of problems
[17:39] <Robint91> cuddykid, PSK63 and DominoEX modulated from a STM32F4 http://i.imgur.com/bkpEQKj.png
[17:39] <Robint91> http://i.imgur.com/sHqrnJ6.png
[17:39] <fsphil> the interrupt in SS seems to cause all sorts of issues
[17:39] <eroomde> then i can do the east bit which is wire up the parallel bus from the usb to the central connector and to the underside of the right hand ic
[17:39] <Robint91> cuddykid, I want to do PSK500R
[17:39] <cuddykid> nice Robint91
[17:39] <cuddykid> Robint91: have you modded fldigi to include that in the bottom right? is it a compass?
[17:39] <Robint91> cuddykid, I have CPU power for around 8 PSK63 carriers
[17:40] <Robint91> cuddykid, default fldigi
[17:40] <cuddykid> ah, never seen it before :)
[17:40] <fsphil> I believe that shows phase
[17:40] <bertrik> cuddykid: fsphil I think it also depends on whether you use it for send or for receive. Sending is probably easier.
[17:40] <fsphil> sending would yea
[17:41] <cuddykid> yes, this is receiving so even more risky
[17:41] <fsphil> it's basically what we do for rtty
[17:41] <fsphil> just faster
[17:44] <Robint91> rtty isn't great
[17:44] <fsphil> but it's so simple :)
[17:45] <cuddykid> shame we can't get power exemption for HAB flights to do more interesting things like live video link
[17:46] <WILLdude> TinyGPS is annoying.
[17:46] <cuddykid> daveake: have you heard anything from these diven60 people? Haven't heard anything back from them since when I spoke to you about it
[17:47] <daveake> nope
[17:47] <cuddykid> been chasing them up for money for components - they're really pushing it time wise
[17:48] <WILLdude> Where do I go from here? In terms of tinygps. http://pastie.org/7698533
[17:49] <Robint91> what is the official git repo for dl-fldigi?
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[17:51] <craag> Robint91: https://github.com/danielrichman/dl-fldigi
[17:51] <arko> eroomde: nice!
[17:51] <arko> is this is the gps board?
[17:53] <WILLdude> Does anyone understand tinygps.
[17:53] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude, yeah
[17:54] <WILLdude> chrisstubbs: Can you help?
[17:56] <arko> ah just read the bottom nvm
[17:56] <chrisstubbs> possibly, whats up?
[17:57] <WILLdude> Where do I go from here? In terms of tinygps. http://pastie.org/7698533
[17:57] <WILLdude> I just need some pointers.
[17:57] <cuddykid> any reason why rtty baud rates jump from 300 to 600 in fldigi? Any reason we don't try 400..?
[17:58] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude, ermmmmmmm have you had a play with the example code?
[17:58] <chrisstubbs> under file --> examples
[17:58] <WILLdude> I've looked at it. Don't really understand it.
[17:59] <arko> eroomde: is the other sma on top of the board for clk in?
[18:00] <Robint91> craag, fsphil it takes around 11 seconds to send a 256byte message with base64 encoding (around 380 chars) with PSK500R
[18:00] <chrisstubbs> gotta go for dinner, try and get the example code working. just swap their softwareserial out for your Hw serial
[18:01] <WILLdude> I use ss.
[18:04] <fsphil> Robint91: that's no better than 300 baud rtty
[18:04] <malgar> do you think that is possible to send commands to the payload thru the 434mhz radio?
[18:06] <arko> eroomde: http://i.imgur.com/TgWHumu.png
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[18:06] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:06] <arko> thats what I can see at least
[18:06] <craag> malgar: Absolutely.
[18:06] <arko> it's like tetris :)
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> TETRIS!
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:07] <arko> also, by moving that diode you get rid of that bottom layer trace
[18:07] <craag> malgar: Look at UKHAS 2012, there's a demo by Darkside of remote-commanded cutdown.
[18:07] <malgar> woow
[18:07] <malgar> very cool
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> btw malgar
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> also contributing to HAB is a certain thing
[18:08] <malgar> Lunar_Lander: ? what?
[18:08] <Lunar_Lander> POKEMON!
[18:08] <Robint91> fsphil, this asks for QAM64+
[18:08] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:08] <Robint91> to get fast SSDV
[18:08] <craag> Robint91: Sent as raw data it would take about 8 seconds.
[18:08] <fsphil> QAM64 is perhaps overkill :)
[18:09] <fsphil> plus the mode needs to be resilient to frequency drift
[18:09] <fsphil> I think that's difficult for the QAM modes
[18:10] <craag> RTTY is extremely drift tolerant, I've had it decoding a flight at >100hz/second drift :)
[18:10] <mattbrejza> i dont think freq drift is the issue with QAM
[18:10] <craag> QAM is a painful mode to transmit at any power.
[18:10] <fsphil> doesn't it mess around with the constellation?
[18:10] <malgar> what causes drift?
[18:10] <fsphil> malgar: mostly temperature changes
[18:11] <malgar> uh, why temperature?
[18:12] <craag> malgar: It changes the frequency of the quartz crystals used as references on the transmitters
[18:12] <mattbrejza> yea bt with any phase related scheme you do carrier recovery
[18:12] <Lunar_Lander> malgar, sorry that was just because I had a lot of joke potential energy ;)
[18:12] <malgar> ahhh ok
[18:13] <Robint91> http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/peterfr2/QAM.htm
[18:13] <fsphil> I may be thinking of OFDM
[18:13] <Robint91> seems nice
[18:14] <fsphil> he spelled it crowd wrong
[18:17] <mattbrejza> QAM will make bit syncing a bit more interesting though
[18:19] <malgar> are you guys interested in radio transmission because of the ballons or did you have a previous background?
[18:19] <jonsowman> does "i wanted pretty pictures" count?
[18:19] <arko> dude
[18:19] <arko> thats is my reason too!
[18:19] <Robint91> malgar, I'm more interrested in the radio communication of it
[18:19] <jonsowman> great minds eh
[18:20] <arko> i was like, damn i need to make my own wallpaper
[18:20] <arko> hmm
[18:20] <jonsowman> lol
[18:20] <arko> lets drop a few $100
[18:20] <jonsowman> but it does provide an excellent and cheap platform for long range radio testing
[18:20] <arko> and now i have a sweet wallpaper
[18:20] <arko> hehe yeah
[18:20] <jonsowman> arko: pretty satisfying isn't it :D
[18:20] <arko> very
[18:20] <fsphil> my desktop atm is the recent hubble shot of the horsehead nebula
[18:20] <arko> oh you see this? yes we took that
[18:20] <jonsowman> i've been doing this since 2008 >.>
[18:20] <Robint91> thinking QAM64 at 1khz BW gives around 6kbps raw
[18:20] <arko> fsphil: A+++
[18:21] <Robint91> so raw data -> FEC 1/2 -> scrambler -> QAM64
[18:21] <arko> eroomde: around?
[18:21] <craag> Robint91: What power level are you aiming to use?
[18:21] <Robint91> craag, too much
[18:21] <craag> UK?
[18:22] <Robint91> craag, the amp on my board that I'm designing can do 1W peak
[18:22] <arko> eroomde: around?
[18:23] <Robint91> craag, but in "normal use" 100mW - 250mW
[18:24] <craag> Robint91: QAM needs a very linear amplifier though. That's the main reason DVB-S (QPSK) is used for Digital Amateur TV, rather than DVB-T (QAM).
[18:24] <mattbrejza> DVB-T is OFDM
[18:24] <Robint91> craag, I know, I have found a good small AMP
[18:24] <Robint91> craag, for low power amp linearity isn't a big problem
[18:25] <fsphil> OFDM is a whole lot of fun
[18:25] <craag> mattbrejza: Huh, apparently so it is. Hams do spout some rubbish sometimes..
[18:25] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[18:25] <mattbrejza> each subcarrier is QAM though
[18:26] <fsphil> it's many QAM carriers
[18:26] <Lunar_Lander> the DVB modes have internal differences?
[18:26] <Lunar_Lander> besides the way of transmission?
[18:26] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[18:26] <craag> Gotcha, that makes sense.
[18:26] <Robint91> Lunar_Lander, yeah
[18:26] <Robint91> Lunar_Lander, DVB-C is only QAM
[18:26] <Robint91> and not OFDM
[18:26] <mattbrejza> well there is a PSK mode of DVB-T but meh
[18:26] <Robint91> I think
[18:26] <Lunar_Lander> is the PSK to like make a better signal coming from the satellite compared to AM?
[18:26] <craag> But I've had quoted to me that a Motorola 50W microwave linear brick will do 20W QPSK, 3W QAM before distortion.
[18:26] <mattbrejza> i think DVB-S is single carrier though
[18:27] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. because you have to run 36000 km twice at least
[18:27] <fsphil> analogue satellite TV used FM
[18:27] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[18:27] <Robint91> mhh damm DVB-C2 uses OFDM with 4096QAM
[18:27] <Robint91> DAMM
[18:27] <Lunar_Lander> I told you I am doing EPR spectroscopy right?
[18:27] <mattbrejza> you can do stuff like pre-distortion to improve the usable power of a transitter though?
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> our prof said amazing things
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> making a broomstick Yagi if you want DVB-T on the camping site
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:28] <craag> mattbrejza: Probably outside the capability of most hams ;)
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> or making a satellite dish as the microwaves are the same frequency as Sat-TV
[18:28] <fsphil> analogue TV wasn't even AM, it was missing part of one of the sidebands iirc
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:28] <Robint91> mattbrejza, I saw a demo of it, you can improve any amp a lot with predistrotion
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[18:28] <Robint91> fsphil, VSB
[18:28] <fsphil> that's it
[18:28] <fsphil> which is a weird way of doing it
[18:29] <craag> Anyway, Robint91 ok on the amp, what frequency were you planning to use out of interest?
[18:29] <mattbrejza> my desk is right next to someone who is very knowledgable about RF, he'll be useful if I ever bother doing anything special
[18:29] <Robint91> somewhere between 430 and 440MHz
[18:30] <Robint91> craag, depending on the filter
[18:30] <Robint91> craag, it is possible to put a signal between 100Mhz and 1Ghz with the correct filter
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> is making a satellite dish difficult?
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:30] <fsphil> not really
[18:31] <Robint91> Lunar_Lander, make it parabolic
[18:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:31] <fsphil> making it look nice is tricky
[18:31] <craag> Robint91: And this is planned to be produced by the DAC and then mixed up to 433?
[18:32] <Robint91> craag, yep, making I and Q signals with the DAC and producing the 4
[18:32] <Robint91> 433 Mhz by mixing and adding those two
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[18:33] <Robint91> craag, school example of a quadrature direct conversion transmitter
[18:33] <WILLdude> Is this: had it decoding a flight
[18:33] <WILLdude> at >100hz/second drift :)
[18:33] <WILLdude> Sorry.
[18:33] <WILLdude> Putty again.
[18:34] <WILLdude> Is this:CHARS=294 SENTENCES=0 CSUM ERR=0
[18:34] <WILLdude> A typical TinyGPS simple test output?
[18:34] <craag> Cool. I had been toying with the idea of modifying the ATV digilite transmitter to output QPSK at 1-25KHz in the same way, but hadn't thought about finding a DAC fast enough instead.
[18:34] <Robint91> craag, I just use the internal DACs of my MCU
[18:34] <Robint91> craag, I have two 1MSPS DACs
[18:34] <WILLdude> Urgh.
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[18:35] <WILLdude> I might as well just decode it myself.
[18:35] <craag> Robint91: Yeah, I'm used to AVRs, just moving to KL25Zs, so not used to having fast hardware so much :)
[18:35] <WILLdude> Oh.
[18:35] <WILLdude> That's before it has lock.
[18:36] <griffonbot> @adamcudworth: H2 warning sign constructed - might well scare a few away! #ukhas http://t.co/dBVl5gvBb7 [http://twitter.com/adamcudworth/status/326404094040363008]
[18:36] <mattbrejza> craag: any reason for that platform over other arm ones?
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[18:37] <mattbrejza> seems a reasonable price though for the memory those ICs have
[18:37] <craag> mattbrejza: It was cheap, and the M0+ has more than enough power for what I do, and some v deep sleep modes.
[18:38] <mattbrejza> i went the stm32 route
[18:38] <mattbrejza> i see freescale have priced their dev board to challenge ST though
[18:38] <Robint91> mattbrejza, the F4 is a very powerfull MCU
[18:39] <craag> Yeah I heard a lot about the stm32s, never tried them though.
[18:40] <mattbrejza> it probably wouldnt be able to keep up with the >100MSPS DAC i intend to use at some point though
[18:41] <craag> Never had any reason to burn more power. But when I found out that the KL25 takes the same power as an AVR, but at 48MHz, I decided it was time to move over to arm-based stuff.
[18:41] <mattbrejza> yea AVRs nom power
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> more than other micros?
[18:42] <mattbrejza> the M0 (or maybe M0+) only has 10-12k gates
[18:42] <SP9UOB_Tom> craag: im using dspics they are really powerfull
[18:42] <craag> I mentioned it to Atmel at the careers fair and they said 'errrmmmmm hey look we have some touchscreens!'
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:42] <mattbrejza> also all of these options cost less than a atmega 328 :P
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> but do you know a cool thing?
[18:42] <craag> mattbrejza: That as well!!
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> Atmel originally comes from Norway!
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:43] <craag> 50p for a KL15z with the same IO as a 328.
[18:44] <mattbrejza> i only just worked out how you rotate in eagle != 90 degrees...
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> who makes the KL15z?
[18:45] <mattbrejza> freescale
[18:45] <craag> SP9UOB_Tom: I never got into PICs. A quick look and they're still only 16 bit :P
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> and how do you program it?
[18:46] <craag> Lunar_Lander: JTAG usually afaik.
[18:46] <mattbrejza> stm32 are swd or jtag
[18:46] <mattbrejza> (swd is ST's thing but only two wire)
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> so with a programmer like the avrisp?
[18:46] <craag> The dev board has a USB <=> JTAG debugger
[18:47] <mattbrejza> yea pretty much all dev boards allow you to use their programmer in an external application
[18:47] <craag> With breakout so you can use it with other baords
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:47] <craag> what matt said :)
[18:47] <mattbrejza> so you buy the <£10 dev board and you already have a programmer
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> and how do you code it?
[18:47] <mattbrejza> c
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[18:48] <craag> Lunar_Lander: There's a range of environments for it. There's Freescale Codewarrior which is a full IDE. (AVRStudio like)
[18:48] <craag> Or there's the mbed SDK, that's a bit like the arduino libraries.
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[18:50] <craag> The mbed RTOS is a bit buggy atm, but the rest of it is pretty good.
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> stupid question
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> do you have to program it in C or does it understand higher commands?
[18:50] <SP9UOB_Tom> craag: but pic32 are 32 bits with MIPS core
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[18:52] <craag> SP9UOB_Tom: Ah ok! I guess I've been a bit blinded by AVR/MSP/Freescale's education campaigns. I'll keep an eye out for people using those.
[18:52] <fsphil> someone did ssdv on a pic32 a while back
[18:53] <craag> TI giving out $2 dev boards including shipping.. I still have a stack somewhere, never really saw a reason to use them.
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[18:54] <joph> craag, where?
[18:54] <joph> link?
[18:54] <craag> joph: Not any more :)
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> do you mean the stellaris launchpad?
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> they were $4
[18:54] <craag> Yeah that's the one.
[18:54] <craag> Ah my bad.
[18:54] <joph> ?
[18:54] <joph> oh
[18:54] <joph> i already have one of these ;)
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> and I was once shown the ST Discovery
[18:55] <craag> I was amazed when mine turned up with a USA shipping label on it :P
[18:55] <fsphil> I have a discovery board here, but found it annoying to get going
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> and my friend said that this is like the biggest development board you can have
[18:56] <joph> Lunar_Lander, yeah, the stm32f4 is great
[18:56] <daveake> an disappointing discovery
[18:56] <daveake> a
[18:56] <joph> toolchain takes time to setup
[18:56] <fsphil> I'm so used to having avr-gcc and avrdude, it's so simple to program for avr
[18:57] <fsphil> the discovery had me faffing around with compiling gcc and programming it with gdb
[18:57] <arko> wow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Balloon_Law
[18:57] <arko> looks like i cant fly a mylar balloon
[18:57] <arko> because whoever designed our stupid cities thought underground powerlines are for losers
[18:57] <joph> fsphil, you can download gcc/gdb already compiled
[18:58] <joph> compiling the gcc for arm would take a long time
[18:58] <fsphil> it did
[18:58] <joph> ~1hour with a quadcore
[18:58] <craag> arko: It says 'prohibits from releasing ... at specified events.'
[18:59] <joph> st-flash and st-util are like avrdude ;)
[18:59] <arko> yeah
[18:59] <joph> just offering more stuff
[18:59] <arko> no so habbing
[18:59] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Altitude control with valve"
[19:00] <fsphil> joph: I'll have another go at it one of these days
[19:00] <craag> arko: But isn't it banning release only at specified events? So you just can't hab at these events??
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[19:00] <arko> well, i was planning on launching at Layerone after my talk
[19:00] <joph> fsphil, have a look at the article on mikrocontroller.net, it explains setting up the toolchain with eclipse for debugging
[19:00] <arko> i dunno, i dont want to cause a power outage anway
[19:00] <nigelvh> Arko, I believe the idea was to prevent events from organizing releases of thousands of balloons.
[19:01] <arko> yeah
[19:01] <arko> it is
[19:01] <craag> Or fairs carelessly releasing bunches of them
[19:01] <arko> http://www.whittierdailynews.com/breakingnews/ci_23045154/metallic-ballons-blamed-whittier-power-outage
[19:01] <arko> we have all sorts of issues
[19:01] <arko> im just going latex, i dont want people getting hurt or power cutting out
[19:02] <craag> Yeah probably best not, after your popularity boost from the last hab :)
[19:03] <arko> :P
[19:03] <arko> "popularity boost" lol
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[19:07] <qyx_> uff that language
[19:07] <qyx_> "i heard an electric something.."
[19:07] <qyx_> "Edison worker"
[19:08] <qyx_> or is Edison some sort of company?
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[19:09] <qyx_> ah, nevermind
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[19:13] <Semafoor> Hey
[19:14] <Steffanx> Hooooo
[19:14] <Semafoor> I am new to the whole HAB 'scene', very enthusiastic about the whole thing.. But already got a very important question: how do you guys get the helium for your balloon? any tips?
[19:15] <Steffanx> ( was a reference to heeeeeeeey.com / hooooooooo.com in case you didnt notice :P )
[19:16] <Semafoor> haha the heeeey / hoooo thing is briliant...
[19:17] <Steffanx> I would expect that kind of info on their wiki, but it's not there :(
[19:17] <chrisstubbs> Back
[19:17] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude, progress report?
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[19:22] <Semafoor> any ideas?
[19:22] <Steffanx> Where are you located btw? US? UK?
[19:23] <chrisstubbs> Semafoor, we use BOC / balloonhelium.co.uk in the UK
[19:23] <Semafoor> ow my bad, I am located in The Netherlands
[19:24] <chrisstubbs> Semafoor, could be worth contacting party/fancy dress stores if you have such a thing over there, check if their helium is "pure" and ask them where they get it
[19:25] <chrisstubbs> some welding companies may be able to point you in the right direction too
[19:26] <Semafoor> if I google a bit I get a lot of balloon shops, but high prices if you ask me..
[19:26] <Semafoor> but thanks! will try that
[19:26] <qyx_> try messer tatragas, they are located in many countries in eu
[19:27] <chrisstubbs> Yes helium is quite expensive
[19:27] <x-f> costyn used helium for his launch, iirc
[19:27] <x-f> he's from NL too, Semafoor
[19:28] <x-f> he might be online tomorrow during the work hours
[19:28] <Semafoor> ok cool, I will contact him
[19:28] <Semafoor> are there any alternatives for helium?
[19:28] <x-f> hydrogen :)
[19:30] <Semafoor> ok, well I am new to the whole thing so I want to start with something small... will hydrogen be something i can use?
[19:31] <chrisstubbs> Helium is really advised for first flights as hydrogen can get dangerous if not treated correctly
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[19:32] <Semafoor> ok
[19:32] <chrisstubbs> see: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:hydrogen
[19:32] <SP9UOB_Tom> UPU ?
[19:32] <malgar> craag: https://www.thecraag.com/FIZZLE_Launch_2nd_March isn't the limit 10mW? you used 100mW
[19:32] <Upu> SP9UOB_Tom ?
[19:32] <SP9UOB_Tom> need color approval ;-)
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[19:32] <Upu> pink
[19:32] <SP9UOB_Tom> http://sp9uob.verox.pl/SEBA-1/IMG_0050.JPG
[19:32] <SP9UOB_Tom> LOL
[19:32] <Upu> http://www.pro-teccovers.co.uk/images/approved-stamp.png
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[19:33] <Robint91> SP9UOB_Tom, what are the dimensions?
[19:33] <SP9UOB_Tom> that's whad i need to launch :-)
[19:33] <Upu> lol
[19:33] <Upu> 120mm ball ?
[19:34] <SP9UOB_Tom> Robint91: 37 grams, ball diameter 98 mm
[19:34] <Upu> 37 impressive
[19:34] <SP9UOB_Tom> http://sp9uob.verox.pl/SEBA-1/IMG_0047.JPG
[19:35] <Robint91> SP9UOB_Tom, nice what is in ti?
[19:35] <SP9UOB_Tom> http://sp9uob.verox.pl/SEBA-1/IMG_0045.JPG
[19:35] <Steffanx> Is there some rule that forces you to use that *nice* pink colour?
[19:35] <Robint91> ah the rfm22b
[19:35] <SP9UOB_Tom> http://sp9uob.verox.pl/SEBA-1/IMG_0043.JPG
[19:35] <Upu> Just building a version 2 of my floater today
[19:36] <Upu> Steffanx no its a running joke but pink is easy to see
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[19:36] <Semafoor> well I have some leads, thanks guys!
[19:37] <Upu> launching under a foil SP9UOB_Tom ?
[19:37] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: no - under 1600 Hwoye / H2
[19:37] <SP9UOB_Tom> :-)
[19:37] <Upu> oh someones playing altitude games :)
[19:37] <SP9UOB_Tom> right :-)
[19:38] <Upu> good luck
[19:38] Action: SP9UOB_Tom is also preparing SPUTNIK - SolarPowered UTNIK ;-) http://sp9uob.verox.pl/SEBA-1/IMG_0048.JPG
[19:39] <Upu> Thats something I'm going to revisit in summer
[19:39] <Upu> http://www.daveakerman.com/?attachment_id=800
[19:39] <Upu> :)
[19:39] <SP9UOB_Tom> nice :-)
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[19:41] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: im launching at 4th may, the plan is to beat 45 km :-)
[19:41] <Upu> well :)
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[19:42] <Upu> unless you have some other trick up your sleve I think you'll struggle
[19:42] <Upu> I think Micks record was a failure
[19:42] <Upu> just failure at the other end of the scale :)
[19:43] <Upu> I've struggled to get one over 40km since PAVA did 43km
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[19:44] <Upu> however you never know :)
[19:44] <nigelvh> Does paying spacex to deliver a balloon to orbit count?
[19:44] <Upu> I'll be watching
[19:44] <Upu> no nigelvh :)
[19:44] <nigelvh> Damn
[19:44] <SP9UOB_Tom> just to check :-) im aiming to get 3 m/s ascend and see whats happen
[19:44] <Upu> that will float
[19:44] <Upu> 40.5km :)
[19:44] <Upu> its such a balance
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[19:45] <Upu> 1.5m/s - 2.5m/s seems to end up with a 39km float on 1600gs, however might be slightly more with your payload
[19:45] <SP9UOB_Tom> i have 2 payloads 2 ballons and 2 notams :-)
[19:45] <chris_99> if you put a filled balloon in a vacuum it's guaranteed to explode isn't it
[19:45] <Robint91> what is the differenc between a floater and a normal balloon
[19:45] <Robint91> execpt the ascend rate?
[19:45] <Upu> Robint91 floaters don't have enough gas to rise to burst altitude so they "float"
[19:46] <SP9UOB_Tom> the plan is launch first, see what happen, and then launch second
[19:46] <Upu> take a look at the data on UKHAS SP9UOB_Tom
[19:46] <Upu> there is alot of luck involved
[19:46] <Upu> I know the neck lift and ascent rates have varied wildly on the balloons that have done 43km +
[19:47] <Upu> No secret sauce formula
[19:47] <Upu> but I think 3m/s is too low
[19:47] <Robint91> Upuis 43km max?
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[19:47] <Upu> no Mick Mondo did err 1sec
[19:47] <SP9UOB_Tom> maybe small rocket motor ;-)
[19:47] <Upu> MONDO-10 - 44379m (145600 ft)
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[19:48] <Robint91> but 50km isn't possible?
[19:48] <Upu> Not with latex
[19:48] <SP9UOB_Tom> nor ublox ;-)
[19:48] <Upu> PAVA 43337 XABEN 43412 BUZZ 43639 XABEN 43721
[19:48] <Upu> then Micks "anomoly" :)
[19:48] <Upu> ublox will do 50km
[19:48] <Upu> just
[19:49] <SP9UOB_Tom> i'm wonder so 2000g would be better
[19:50] <Upu> well again no
[19:50] <malgar> what's the trick to go so high? big balloon?
[19:50] <Upu> 1600g Hwoyee
[19:50] <Upu> Hydrogen
[19:50] <Upu> light payload
[19:50] <Upu> luck
[19:50] <SP9UOB_Tom> all check :-)
[19:50] <malgar> hydrogen!!
[19:50] <Upu> yup
[19:50] <Upu> the 2000g never gave the improvement over the 1600g you'd expect
[19:50] <Robint91> n 2002, a balloon named BU60-1 reached 53.0 km (173,900 ft).
[19:50] <Robint91> damm
[19:51] <Upu> Yeah Jaxa
[19:51] <SP9UOB_Tom> Robint91: was it amateur ?
[19:51] <Upu> wasn't a latex
[19:51] <Robint91> ee whats happen
[19:51] <Robint91> <Upu> that will float
[19:51] <Robint91> sigh
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[19:51] <Robint91> http://www.isas.jaxa.jp/e/special/2003/yamagami/03.shtml
[19:51] <Robint91> SP9UOB_Tom, Upu ^
[19:51] <Upu> not latex
[19:52] <Upu> huge zp balloon
[19:52] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:flight_data
[19:52] <SP9UOB_Tom> 60000cubic meters...
[19:52] <Upu> Note BUZZ6
[19:53] <Upu> PAVA
[19:53] <Laurenceb__> the JAXA assembly rig is nice
[19:53] <Upu> neck lifts etc
[19:53] <Laurenceb__> id say it feasible to build a balloon to exceed 45Km
[19:53] <Laurenceb__> but not easy
[19:53] <Upu> build one for sure
[19:53] <Upu> getting a off the shelf latex up there ?
[19:54] <Laurenceb__> thing about the JAXA balloon was it carried quite a bit of payload
[19:54] <Upu> We have a few ideas
[19:54] <Laurenceb__> if you use the thinnest polythene and no payload it scales to a bit nicer size
[19:54] <Upu> I'll share one in a PM SP9UOB_Tom as you have two ballons
[19:54] <Laurenceb__> but 53Km with polythene is a pita either way
[19:55] <Laurenceb__> there is a much easier method....
[19:55] <Laurenceb__> even a modified estes motor will give you tens of Km launched from ~35Km
[19:57] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: i have 4 :-) and anoter 2 ordered ;-)
[19:57] <malgar> I find so few websites about 434mhz rtty except ukhas wiki. Why?
[19:58] <malgar> do you play rockery Laurenceb__ ? :) I own a small rocket
[19:58] <Upu> we are the only people really using it
[19:58] <malgar> rocketry
[19:58] <malgar> Upu: why?
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[20:01] <SpeedEvil> someone picked it, it worked, inertia.
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[20:01] <Upu> well its quite slow and old fashioned
[20:01] <Upu> but it works for our needs
[20:02] <Upu> its far from perfect
[20:02] <Upu> and people are mulling over making it better
[20:02] <Upu> i.e no error correction
[20:02] <craag> We're playing with other ways of doing it, but there's nothing quite as simple that works so well just for basic telemetry :)
[20:02] <malgar> craag: https://www.thecraag.com/FIZZLE_Launch_2nd_March isn't the limit 10mW?
[20:03] <craag> malgar: Not for the 868MHz band
[20:03] <griffonbot> Received email: Cresswell family "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Altitude control with valve"
[20:03] <craag> But it's also got some weird restrictions, you have to listen every now and then.
[20:03] <craag> And the only receivers are SDR dongles.
[20:04] <Laurenceb__> malgar: spin stabilised from HAB looks doable
[20:04] <malgar> craag: ok.. so why dont you always use 868Mhz?
[20:04] <Laurenceb__> an estes D motor
[20:04] <Laurenceb__> with a nozzle extension
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[20:05] <craag> malgar: There aren't common receivers for it, and the radio modules are most complex (as they have to be able to receive as well)
[20:05] <craag> *more complex
[20:05] <malgar> ok very interesting craag
[20:05] <Upu> would love too Laurenceb slight issue I'm not entirely sure if thats legal in the UK :)
[20:05] <craag> Plus it's about to get 4G as a next-door neighbour (~860MHz), that might cause issues with receivers.
[20:06] <Laurenceb__> Upu: well it helps if its above controlled airspace at launch
[20:06] <craag> I'm not going to be building anything more for it, although I might fly fizzle again.
[20:06] <Upu> yup
[20:06] <Laurenceb__> i was running some sims..
[20:06] <Laurenceb__> Estes D motor with nozzle and trimmed down casing, in a carbon fibre tube
[20:07] <Laurenceb__> got to 80Km from 40Km launch
[20:07] <Laurenceb__> with a ~1gram beacon onboard
[20:07] <Laurenceb__> im working on some tracking code
[20:07] <Laurenceb__> to find position and altitude from the doppler trace from multiple listeners
[20:09] <malgar> anyway I decided for GSM tracking here.. too much valleys and no listeners on 434Mhz. GSM has a good coverage even on the narrow valleys
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[20:09] <malgar> maybe a second launch I'll use radio to get telemetry when the balloon is up in the sky
[20:11] <craag> malgar: Radio is good even if you are the only listener, at least then you know which valley it's in if the GSM fails, rather than having no idea at all.
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: with a balloon borne beacon for synch, it might be very easy
[20:11] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[20:11] <Laurenceb__> receiver drift would be an issue otherwise
[20:11] <malgar> the new tk102 seem to have a data buffer when there isn't signal
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> absent expensive GPS synced receivers
[20:12] <SpeedEvil> or rubidium
[20:12] <Laurenceb__> interesting to see why Estes motors are so poor
[20:12] <SpeedEvil> in principle, you could put together a rb locked system for £100
[20:13] <Laurenceb__> main reason is not the low ISP, but the crappy mass fraction of a hobby rocket
[20:13] <Laurenceb__> and the fact it burns crazy fast and hits tons of air
[20:13] <Laurenceb__> the ISP is good enough to give some impressive altitude if you solve those issues
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> is a D 160ns?
[20:14] <Laurenceb__> about 2 seconds if you are lucky
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> NHS
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> Ns
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> sigh
[20:15] <Laurenceb__> lulwut
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> impulse
[20:15] <Laurenceb__> the performance is pretty Royal Staffordshire Hospital, if thats what you mean
[20:16] <Laurenceb__> ISP is 120s or so
[20:16] Action: SpeedEvil is exhausted after spending all day clearing the greenhouse and this keyboard is not helping.
[20:16] <Laurenceb__> might get 150s with nozzle extension in a vacuum
[20:16] <chrisstubbs> malgar, the TK102's reliability is like flipping a coin
[20:17] <chrisstubbs> it might work ok, but be prepared to never see your payload again
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: teeny bit of foil for the nozzle?
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[20:18] <mfa298> malgar: I imagine the idea is that the data buffer will hold messages until the module moves into an area with signal, howver once landed your module won't move into a signal area on its own
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> Ta
[20:18] <LokisSword> evening :)
[20:18] <Laurenceb__> foil?!
[20:18] <malgar> mfa298: :D
[20:18] <Laurenceb__> you'd use some ablative
[20:18] <Laurenceb__> like tufnol
[20:19] <malgar> chrisstubbs: really? oO :( I just bought it on ebay
[20:19] <mfa298> there's also a difference between areas you can get a signal when the radio is 2m above ground and the areas you can get a signal when the module is on the ground
[20:19] <mfa298> radio in that intance being the gsm module radio
[20:19] <SpeedEvil> wondering, as it is fairly cool at the end of the nozzle.
[20:19] <malgar> chrisstubbs: but if I intensely try it before flight I could get an idea if it could works
[20:19] <chrisstubbs> malgar, i flew one saturday, and after it not responding to phone calls for 20 mins after landing it texted back some garbage, followed by some coordinates
[20:19] <SpeedEvil> mfa298: especially upside down
[20:20] <chrisstubbs> stratodean flew one on sunday that did not work at all after landinf
[20:20] <malgar> did you use the original firmware?
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[20:21] <chrisstubbs> malgar, yeah
[20:21] <chrisstubbs> malgar, http://bit.ly/11pWMGz
[20:22] <malgar> :D
[20:22] <chrisstubbs> the middle message made me lose faith
[20:22] <malgar> try this
[20:22] <malgar> http://www.tracker-me.com/index_eng.html
[20:23] <chrisstubbs> malgar, from the reviews i read about that firmware, it breaks after 45 min or so
[20:23] <malgar> lol
[20:23] <malgar> cool
[20:24] <malgar> chrisstubbs: but before launch, your tk102 was working well?
[20:24] <chrisstubbs> "About 38 minutes past the tracker will no longer respond to commands"
[20:24] <chrisstubbs> malgar, yeah i called it right after we released it and it replied ok. when it did spring back to life the coordinates were in the correct area
[20:25] <malgar> maybe the problem is due low temperature
[20:25] <malgar> or low pressure
[20:26] <chrisstubbs> combination of altitude, bad software and temperature. in that order
[20:27] <malgar> chrisstubbs: how muc did you pay it?
[20:27] <malgar> is the one with sd card?
[20:27] <chrisstubbs> malgar, about £40 3 years ago
[20:27] <malgar> ahh it's old
[20:28] <chrisstubbs> no no SD card
[20:28] <WILLdude> Hi.
[20:28] <chrisstubbs> howdy will
[20:28] <WILLdude> chrisstubbs: I've decided to not use tinygps.
[20:28] <malgar> I read that the new version is wuite different
[20:28] <malgar> q
[20:28] <chrisstubbs> malgar, you may be in luck then
[20:28] <chrisstubbs> whys that WILLdude
[20:28] <WILLdude> More educational, efficient to do it myself.
[20:29] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude, good choice
[20:29] <WILLdude> I'm having a busy week, a relative's funeral is on thursday so I've not got time for much.
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[20:30] <chrisstubbs> ah sorry to hear that
[20:30] <malgar> chrisstubbs: anyway I'll launch not earlier than June. At the moment there is a lot of snow on the mountains
[20:30] <chrisstubbs> well theres no rush, just a bit of fun at the end of the day
[20:30] <mfa298> WILLdude: often it's more efficient to use existing code/libraries (although I don't know if that's true for tiny gps)
[20:30] <malgar> I would like to avoid a climb on snow
[20:30] <mfa298> but the learning experience of doingit yourself can be a good thing
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> malgar, which mountains exactly?
[20:33] <malgar> Lunar_Lander: italy, alps, near austria
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> ah cool
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[20:36] <WILLdude> Could a temperature control system be built in a payload, to prevent drift?
[20:37] <WILLdude> Urgh. My code has stopped working again.
[20:37] <Upu> probably but easier to use a transmitter with a TCXO on it
[20:37] <arko> food coma
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[20:40] <WILLdude> Hi Upu.
[20:40] <Upu> evening William
[20:41] <WILLdude> You can call me Will, by the way.
[20:41] <WILLdude> William is fine too.
[20:41] Nick change: WILLdude -> WILLIAMdude
[20:41] <WILLIAMdude> Not as catchy is it?
[20:41] Nick change: WILLIAMdude -> WILLdude
[20:41] <Upu> :)
[20:42] <WILLdude> My arduino stops txing when I open the serial monitor.
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[20:42] <WILLdude> Bit weird.
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[20:44] <arko> do you have a pastebin of your code?
[20:44] <WILLdude> One sec.
[20:44] <WILLdude> I'll try putty.
[20:45] <WILLdude> How peculiar.
[20:45] <WILLdude> It works, almost.
[20:45] <arko> i wish arduino had a good debugger :/
[20:46] <arko> avrstudio is great and all, but it would be the one thing i would add to the arduino gui
[20:46] <arko> almost?
[20:46] <WILLdude> The problem is, if I start the arduino with the serial port open, it doesn't tx.
[20:46] <arko> but if you connect later it does?
[20:46] <WILLdude> But I went on the serial port with putty, later, and it worked.
[20:47] <arko> did the arduino reboot and start over again?
[20:47] <chrisstubbs> WILLdude, i think i had that probelm. Reinstall of arduino ide sorted it
[20:47] <WILLdude> Err. No.
[20:47] <arko> oh
[20:48] <arko> hmm, ive never been able to even open the com port when the arduino isn't connected
[20:49] Nick change: MI6VIM -> fsphil-m
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[20:49] <WILLdude> I might try 1.5.2
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[20:50] <arko> chrisstubbs: you are able to open a com port before it's connected?
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[20:52] <chrisstubbs> While the arduino is not plugged in, no
[20:52] <Upu> evening Lunar
[20:52] <arko> hm, perhaps i've misunderstood Will's issue
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[20:54] <arko> Upu: you dont have any sarantel active antennas do you?
[20:54] <arko> in stock
[20:55] <Upu> not officially
[20:55] <arko> ah
[20:55] <Upu> I do have a 1206 somewhere
[20:56] <Upu> http://www.sarantel.com/products/sl1206
[20:56] <arko> im looking for a 1204
[20:56] <Upu> I have one but its on a PCB
[20:56] <arko> i believe thats what i used on my pico
[20:57] <arko> if you've got like 1, it's not a big deal, i dont want to dry out any supplies
[20:58] <Upu> I bought them in for testing
[20:58] <Upu> but never used them
[20:58] <arko> ah
[20:58] <Upu> well used one for testing on my test board
[20:58] <arko> found this supplier in the US http://www.richardsonrfpd.com/Pages/Search-Results.aspx?productCategory=10106&supplierid=1054
[20:59] <arko> err http://www.richardsonrfpd.com/Pages/Product-Details.aspx?productId=922305
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[20:59] <arko> i think im gonna grab a radiometrix and atmega from ya though
[20:59] <arko> i soldered my other one to my prototype
[20:59] <arko> rather have two anyway
[21:00] <Upu> ok no probs
[21:00] <Upu> lots of stock
[21:00] <arko> it's not a huge pain to ship over seas right?
[21:00] <Upu> not for me
[21:00] <arko> :)
[21:00] <Upu> is for your wallets
[21:00] <Upu> :)
[21:00] <arko> meh
[21:00] <arko> rather you than some huge company
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[21:01] <WILLdude> Upu: Rather you than paying for it :)
[21:01] <Upu> Well I'm cheaper than anyone I've found for ublox and Radiometrix
[21:01] <Upu> even with the VAT on
[21:01] <arko> yeah
[21:01] <Upu> well the MAX modules anyway
[21:01] <arko> you rock the prices
[21:02] <Upu> there seems to be alot of NEO6M's turning up on ebay / china
[21:02] <Upu> note 'M' not 'Q'
[21:02] Action: chrisstubbs likes neo6
[21:02] <WILLdude> Where would we be without Upu?
[21:02] <gonzo__> lost at sea?
[21:02] <WILLdude> We all need Upu.
[21:02] <arko> M is the 1.8v right?
[21:02] <Upu> still waiting for the Lassen to get a lock
[21:02] <Upu> no 'M' is the version without a TCXO
[21:03] <arko> oh!
[21:05] <WILLdude> Upu: Not making much progress.
[21:05] <Upu> keep at it WILLdude its not easy at first
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[21:06] <WILLdude> Yeah. I haven't got much time due to the funeral of a relative taking plcace soon and it'll be difficult to cope with.
[21:07] <arko> Upu: possible bug with your store? my previous cart was in there
[21:07] <arko> so i added the new stuff, then at check out it had everything from last time
[21:07] <arko> or maybe i screwed up and clicked something
[21:07] <Upu> it does that
[21:08] <Upu> just delete everything I think
[21:08] <arko> yeah
[21:08] <arko> no biggy
[21:08] <mfa298> WILLdude: there's no race to make it work, just play with the code when you've got the time and your enjoying working on it.
[21:09] <Upu> cheers Arko
[21:09] <arko> cheers brotha
[21:09] <arko> gotta get the pico board out soon too
[21:09] <arko> i think im gonna send it out wednesday
[21:09] <WILLdude> mfa298: Absolutely.
[21:10] <Upu> I'm out of the office tomorrow will post Wed
[21:10] <arko> i need to find the drc file i used for this one manufacturer
[21:10] <arko> if you have time, not a problem if you are too busy
[21:10] <WILLdude> It's amazing how many times I am about to post something on IRC and then realize it's a stupid question and research it myself.
[21:11] <arko> i just realized a possible problem is the AA voltage maybe too high
[21:11] <arko> 1.802v per battery
[21:11] <Upu> http://habhub.org/zeusbot/pisg.html
[21:11] <arko> suppose to 3v3 total
[21:11] <Upu> "Willdude123 didn't know that much either. 30.6% of his/her lines were questions." :)
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> you're not running the micro directly from batteries?
[21:11] <arko> i am
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> that is almost always a bad idea
[21:12] <arko> yeah it is
[21:12] <Upu> single battery ?
[21:12] <arko> two
[21:12] <Upu> I did consider this
[21:12] <arko> i usually look up the voltage ranges
[21:12] <Upu> it may work with the MAX7C
[21:12] <Upu> won't work with the 6's
[21:12] <arko> hmm
[21:12] <arko> yeah
[21:12] <arko> the atmega will be just fine
[21:12] <arko> whats that, like 1.8 - 5.5 or something crazy like that
[21:13] <WILLdude> Upu: At least I;m second place now.
[21:13] <Upu> you are will :)
[21:13] <fsphil-m> Who is first?
[21:13] <Upu> nothing wrong with questions
[21:13] <arko> im envy that, learning and not knowing is awesome
[21:13] <SP9UOB_Tom> anyone know how much free lift has chinese lantern :) ?
[21:13] <Upu> smrtz
[21:13] <Upu> lol
[21:13] <SP9UOB_Tom> i have really lightweight payload :-)
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[21:14] <Upu> just enough to lift the candle :)
[21:14] <arko> oh snap,i should check the booster input voltage too
[21:14] <arko> time to redesign!
[21:14] <arko> :P
[21:14] <WILLdude> I just have the perfect balance of the lack of intelligence and experience, and I have plenty of perserverance with the subject.
[21:14] <Upu> lol
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> consider what you put into payloads carefully
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> http://m.farmersguardian.com/45270.article?mobilesite=enabled
[21:15] <Upu> WILLdude experience yes, you're 12 ffs I couldn't even tie my shoe laces at that age
[21:15] <WILLdude> They all come together to make a high percentage of my messages being questions.
[21:15] <Upu> intelligence I would argue that
[21:16] <WILLdude> Upu: I can't tie them either.
[21:16] <arko> WILLdude: i'm not too sharp, i think im just dedicated enough to keep smashing my head into the wall till i break through the drywall
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> "This website would like to store information on your computer for offline-mode use"
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> says firefox
[21:16] <Upu> don't worry lunar
[21:16] <WILLdude> Upu: Well, I kinda can.
[21:16] <WILLdude> Upu: Bunny ears bow :(
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[21:17] <SP9UOB_Tom> well, in Poland we have new regulation - if webpage uses cookies - they MUST warn user, and instruct how to disable cookies - horrible
[21:17] <arko> easy solution is to tie your shoe laces the first time you buy your shoes then slip in and out of them
[21:17] <SP9UOB_Tom> arko: clever ;-)
[21:17] <WILLdude> SP9UOB_Tom: That is the same across the EU.
[21:17] <WILLdude> Us too.
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[21:18] <mfa298> SP9UOB_Tom: I think that's a cross europe law, but most sites try to do as little as possible
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> yeah farnell annoys me with that big blue bar at the top
[21:18] <arko> omg http://i.imgur.com/eWlBTVT.jpg
[21:18] <arko> what a troll question
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> "The Farnell/Element 14 website uses cookies"
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> yesterday I saw a creationism test
[21:19] <cuddykid> hm, somethings going wrong somewhere.. sending the 256 bytes over rtty but it only lasts 5 secs max and not recognised as a packet
[21:19] <Upu> oh yeah I saw that
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> "Is the earth billions of years old? True False"
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> False was circled
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> correct
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[21:19] <arko> that question hurts
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> the other questions too
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[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> "Did dinosaurs and people live together? True False"
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> True was circled
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> correct
[21:21] <arko> ._.
[21:21] <arko> was this an american school?
[21:21] <Upu> sadly yes
[21:21] <arko> somewhere in the midwest?
[21:21] <arko> oh christ
[21:21] <arko> well literally
[21:21] <arko> fyi uk, we aren't all like that
[21:21] <SP9UOB_Tom> so EU regulations are getting stranger and stranger....
[21:21] <Upu> we know :)
[21:21] <arko> oh good
[21:22] <Upu> South Carolina
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[21:22] Action: SP9UOB_Tom is thinking about moving to Equador :-)
[21:22] <Upu> http://24.media.tumblr.com/f2bd1660e469b6de1ab85a323e95a56f/tumblr_mllfjrgUor1r1q3ryo1_500.jpg
[21:22] <Upu> http://25.media.tumblr.com/84a341b1ff97e99c26d2cf6a6223dfef/tumblr_mllfjrgUor1r1q3ryo2_500.jpg
[21:22] <arko> :'(
[21:23] <arko> as much as i laughed at it, this is actually really sad
[21:23] <arko> some kid is growing up with this stuff
[21:23] <Upu> yeeeeeup
[21:23] <arko> i'm not some /r/athiesm nut, but that's just sad
[21:24] <arko> so it looks like i will be hosting a hab class for a community center this summer
[21:24] <eroomde> yoyo
[21:24] <arko> gonna teach kids eagle
[21:24] <arko> arduino
[21:24] <arko> etc
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> the final question sounds really much like indoctrination
[21:24] <Upu> thats brave :)
[21:24] <arko> they are paying for the hab
[21:24] <arko> yeah i know, kids are impossible to work with
[21:24] <arko> it's gonna suck, but im gonna try
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> like "if you hear someone criticizing us, what do you say?"
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> you know what I mean?
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[21:24] <arko> if i get 1 kid to try engineer, i'll be happy
[21:25] <arko> sup eroomde, get my comments earlier?
[21:25] <Upu> hell yeah :)
[21:25] <Upu> right dog walk bbs
[21:25] <arko> lates
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> maybe will get polymer research on my balloon :)
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> from a guy who flew with Darkside
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[21:31] <cuddykid> anyone know why this isn't producing desired results http://pastebin.com/BS7LxCcj - sending 256 bytes of data over from pi (verified it's arriving correctly), just not getting recognised as image packet in fldigi
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[21:34] Nick change: bertrik_ -> bertrik
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> hi benoxley
[21:38] <griffonbot> @NSEballoon: Write up of NSE's flight: http://t.co/2g1jklZwXH #ukhas [http://twitter.com/NSEballoon/status/326449909727391744]
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[21:40] <arko> woah nice
[21:41] <chrisstubbs> Cant wait to do it all again :)
[21:42] <chrisstubbs> I better be off, night
[21:42] <Upu> night :) (just watching)
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[21:48] <arko> man
[21:48] <eroomde> 111no
[21:48] <arko> i think im going to select a MRO HiRISE image and get it printed on a canvas
[21:48] <arko> frame it at home
[21:49] <arko> 111no?
[21:49] <eroomde> i didn't get yor comments earlier arko
[21:49] <arko> [11:06:32] <arko> eroomde: http://i.imgur.com/TgWHumu.png
[21:49] <SP9UOB_Tom> its time to sleep
[21:49] <SP9UOB_Tom> night all
[21:49] <arko> moving that diode could free up that bottom trace
[21:49] <arko> night tom
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[21:51] <eroomde> oh i did it before leaving work
[21:52] <arko> nice
[21:52] <eroomde> sec
[21:52] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/hiAGxpW.png
[21:53] <eroomde> i will neaten up 2moz
[21:53] <eroomde> but the principle is there
[21:53] <arko> :)
[21:54] <arko> very nice
[21:54] <arko> wait that chip has the correct D+/D- arrrangement?
[21:54] <eroomde> the easy bit next, just routing the data output from front end chip via connector to usb chip
[21:54] <eroomde> yes it does!
[21:54] <arko> wow!
[21:54] <eroomde> cool uhuh?
[21:54] <arko> very haha
[21:54] <arko> it's rare to find that
[21:54] <arko> what is it?
[21:55] <eroomde> FT232H
[21:55] <arko> oh
[21:55] <arko> just an ftdi chip?
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[21:55] <arko> never used the extra functionality on those
[21:55] <nigelvh> Do you need the full functionality of the FT232H?
[21:56] <nigelvh> I've switched to the FT230XS as it's much cheaper and does most of the same stuff.
[21:57] <eroomde> i'm using high speed (about 100MB/s) with async fifo and also the spi to configure the front end chip
[21:57] <arko> im thinking about getting this framed http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Curiosity_Rover_%28Exaggerated_Color%29_-_HiRISE_-_20120814.jpg
[21:57] <arko> for home
[21:57] <arko> ohh
[21:58] <eroomde> the ft232h is $4 too
[21:58] <eroomde> nothing
[21:58] <arko> wow thats nifty
[21:58] <nigelvh> The FT230XS is $2
[21:58] <nigelvh> Not a huge difference, but some.
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[21:58] <eroomde> thinking about it for more than 2 minutes makes it not worth the difference :)
[21:59] <eroomde> these are prototypes rather than for mass production
[21:59] <arko> nice
[21:59] <arko> have you thought about shielding?
[21:59] <nigelvh> yeah, one offs have more flexibility there.
[21:59] <arko> the sparkfun one had some, figured it wouldnt hurt
[21:59] <eroomde> yes
[22:00] <eroomde> i can possible get a can round the max2769 & its passives
[22:00] <eroomde> possibly*
[22:00] <eroomde> but not mega bothered about it really
[22:01] <eroomde> it didn;t seem to make much snr difference to the v1
[22:01] <eroomde> suspect its more to pass EC law when next to a hairdryer or something
[22:01] <arko> haha
[22:02] <arko> who does that!?
[22:02] <arko> 'la la la, just prototypin with gps, oh hey a hair dryer'
[22:02] <arko> i know why, sometimes its fun to imagine
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[22:03] <eroomde> i may have to put a bit of gate logic in to make it play nice
[22:04] <eroomde> there's a read into the fifo and send the fifo command. not sure how best to spaff it
[22:04] <eroomde> must study the datahseet
[22:05] <cuddykid> fsphil: if you're around - am I right in thinking the ssdv stuff has to be sent 8 bit ascii?
[22:05] <cuddykid> just been looking through the bytes in output file and some look in extended ascii
[22:05] <eroomde> may yet regret descoping the cpld
[22:05] <eroomde> got the smd mcx connector on for external clocking
[22:06] <eroomde> so you can coherently clock several of these things
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[22:18] <fsphil> cuddykid: yes
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[23:27] <LokisSword> right, there we go - everything but a kidney listed on ebay to start offsetting cost of HAB supplies :)
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[00:00] --- Tue Apr 23 2013