highaltitude.log.20130419

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[04:52] <arko> la la la
[04:52] <arko> people are sleeping
[04:52] <arko> blah blah
[04:53] <natrium42> 4reelz
[04:54] <arko> FO REALZ
[04:54] <arko> oh burnistoun
[04:54] <arko> wonder if they are back in season
[04:55] <nigelvh> Evening. I'm not sleeping
[04:56] <arko> USA!
[04:56] <nigelvh> 'MURIKA!
[04:57] <Darkside> MURICA
[04:57] <Darkside> IN AMORICA
[04:57] <natrium42> arko, you should name your payload MURICA
[04:58] <nigelvh> With the subtitle "Fuck Yeah."
[04:58] <arko> haha
[04:58] <arko> agreed
[05:05] <arko> weird
[05:05] <nigelvh> Yes?
[05:05] <arko> i went from a 5v system to 3.3v and lost components
[05:05] <arko> i was expecting to gain with boosting
[05:05] <nigelvh> That does not suprise me.
[05:05] <nigelvh> If there were bits to talk with lower voltage stuff, that adds up.
[05:06] <arko> yea, no kidding
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[05:12] <nigelvh> I still run most my boards at 5V because I'm too lazy to bother reducing the clock speed.
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[05:50] <Upu> lol at random early morning 'muricas
[05:50] <nigelvh> Later evening for us.
[05:53] <KF7FER> kinda early isn't it, Upu?
[05:53] <KF7FER> being an MERICAN I'm too lazy to look
[05:54] <Upu> lol morning Brad
[05:54] <KF7FER> actually not eh?
[05:55] <KF7FER> So arko... did you get your Trackuino/MAX-6 issues sorted out?
[05:55] <arko> yeah
[05:55] <arko> working on it right now
[05:56] <arko> last trace
[05:56] <arko> 3.3v input
[05:56] <KF7FER> cool. so can I ask you a couple quick questions?
[05:56] <arko> for the HX1 it boosts up
[05:56] <arko> sure thing
[05:56] <KF7FER> you running 1.4?
[05:56] <arko> 1.4?
[05:56] <arko> arduino?
[05:56] <KF7FER> of the Trackuino firmware... or are at least basing your code on it
[05:57] <KF7FER> vs say 1.3
[05:57] <KF7FER> (sorry I wasn't more specific)
[05:57] <arko> oh
[05:57] <arko> yeah
[05:57] <arko> 1/4
[05:57] <arko> 1.4*
[05:57] <arko> latest
[05:58] <KF7FER> Ok. You've used 1.3?
[05:58] <arko> uh nope
[05:58] <arko> first time ever with trackduino
[05:58] <arko> downloaded it last week
[05:58] <KF7FER> oh, ok. So 1.4 introduced a bug where if you're not using time slotting the first packet will be transmitted without the LED ever being lit
[05:59] <KF7FER> then it starts with the whole "pulsing" thing
[05:59] <KF7FER> I suspect Upu will find this amusing given his comments the other day ;-)
[05:59] <nigelvh> Oh trackuino...
[05:59] <KF7FER> but I think code reuse has it's rewards - if your not using it blindly
[05:59] <KF7FER> nigelvh - yup
[06:00] <nigelvh> I ended up writing my own packet code just because I disliked trackuino's code.
[06:00] <nigelvh> Could I say mine is objectively better? Who knows. Do I like it better, did I learn things, and do I find it more maintainable? Yes.
[06:00] <KF7FER> Seems good enough for now but I've really be focusing on the hardware and trying to get that right first
[06:01] <arko> KF7FER: interesting
[06:01] <arko> i'll need to look into this
[06:01] <arko> didnt know
[06:02] <KF7FER> check it out. Easy enough to do. Just put a radio within range of the tracker and power it up. You'll record a packet and no LED. That's new to 1.4
[06:02] <KF7FER> anyways a simple fix
[06:02] <KF7FER> I ask because.... the delay is important when it comes to the MAX-6
[06:02] <KF7FER> I'm failing the ACK call after I set flight mode and I see a 3 second delay before the LED lights
[06:02] <KF7FER> I modified the code to turn the LED on at the end of setup
[06:02] <KF7FER> but now I see a delay
[06:03] <KF7FER> the same code in a standalone application works perfectly
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[06:03] <KF7FER> so I'm thinking I botched the implementation
[06:03] <arko> oh cool
[06:03] <arko> ah
[06:03] <KF7FER> or that perhaps Trackuino is broken
[06:03] <KF7FER> nods to those who write their own code ;-)
[06:04] <KF7FER> probably me though
[06:04] <KF7FER> just wondering... that's why I'm asking about your delay
[06:04] <nigelvh> The problem with APRS is that the specs aren't written correctly, so I had a hell of a time getting my code working.
[06:04] <KF7FER> not specific enough?
[06:05] <oh7lzb> APRS specs/documentation are in a very horrible state.
[06:05] <nigelvh> My specific issue was that it states the checksum needs to be transmitted in a given bit order, but they were actually needing the other bit order.
[06:06] <KF7FER> ouch
[06:06] <KF7FER> I've heard the docs are pretty stale
[06:06] <KF7FER> I haven't waded that deep obviously
[06:07] <nigelvh> In summary, at one point I used Audacity to record a known good transmission, then record my transmission and compare the differences to see where it went wrong.
[06:07] <nigelvh> It was a pain.
[06:07] <KF7FER> wow... is there actually some sort of "audio diff" or did you have to do that too?
[06:08] <nigelvh> If by "audio diff" you mean "lining it up and looking at where the phase is off with my eyes" then yes.
[06:08] <oh7lzb> At that point you've really learned how it really works. :)
[06:08] <KF7FER> I can imagine
[06:08] <nigelvh> Yes, I'm VERY familiar with transmitting AX.25
[06:08] <oh7lzb> Did that sort of thing with POCSAG once.
[06:10] <nigelvh> POCSAG?
[06:10] <arko> oh!
[06:10] <arko> pagers
[06:10] <oh7lzb> Post Office Code Standardization Advisory Group!
[06:10] <oh7lzb> Yup, built code to run a beeper/pager transmitter using an arduino
[06:11] <nigelvh> That sounds like a nightmare.
[06:11] <arko> woah awesome!
[06:11] <arko> i've been learning a lot about POCSAG and FLEX
[06:12] <oh7lzb> Certainly less of a nightmare than AX.25.
[06:12] <arko> yeah
[06:13] <oh7lzb> First prototype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOHg-e67ONU
[06:13] <oh7lzb> Second model, with arduino and a real commercial 200W pager transmitter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4vyAdpsD1M
[06:13] <arko> oh that all too familiar sound
[06:13] <nigelvh> Is AX.25 really all that bad comparatively? I've done code for RTTY and AX.25, and besides the specs being off, it didn't seem all too odd.
[06:14] <arko> oh7lzb: wait, isn't commerical 929Mhz or so?
[06:15] <oh7lzb> Then OH8HQL designed a custom board for the modem: http://www.oh8hql.net/projects/pocsag/
[06:15] <oh7lzb> runs my arduino code unmodified
[06:15] <nigelvh> Did you convert the pager/transmitter to the ham band?
[06:15] <oh7lzb> http://www.oh8hql.net/projects/pocsag/images/pissmodem.jpg
[06:15] <arko> wow thats awesome!
[06:16] <oh7lzb> fits our commercial pocsag transmitter bonk's interface/extension board connector directly :)
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[06:17] <oh7lzb> arko: POCSAG is run on lots of different frequencies. On 27 MHz around the CB band, in many places at around 146-148 MHZ, on 450 MHz, on 929
[06:17] <oh7lzb> at least those
[06:18] <nigelvh> Hmm
[06:18] <oh7lzb> so when buying a pager you have to be careful to get one which you can configure to receive on a ham band
[06:18] <eroomde> morning
[06:19] <nigelvh> Morning
[06:19] <eroomde> nice coming down to breakfast and seeing lots of interesting looking scrollback courtesy to Team NightShift
[06:19] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/S2PHeXM.png
[06:20] <arko> Upu: ^
[06:20] <arko> oh7lzb: do you do commerical radio?
[06:20] <arko> sup eroomde
[06:20] <oh7lzb> http://www.unication.com/alpha_legend.html - see "Frequency Range", the 143 - 153 MHz model will be good for 2m
[06:20] <arko> yeah, i've seen the 929 for pagers here
[06:20] <arko> oh wow
[06:20] <arko> thats perfect
[06:21] <oh7lzb> all the newer beepers are programmable, download programming software and program with a TTL level converter + 1 diode
[06:21] <oh7lzb> some can even be configured using the buttons, without software
[06:21] <eroomde> i remember when we were first taught this - so true
[06:21] <eroomde> http://xkcd.com/1201/
[06:21] <oh7lzb> The fun thing is that the thing runs on a single battery for a month or so.
[06:22] <arko> eroomde haha
[06:22] <arko> wow, i think im gonna grab one
[06:22] <arko> im planning on buying an ettus N210
[06:23] <oh7lzb> arko: We mostly use these old commercial radios, built by a Finnish company, we got the from Sonera (former Telecom Finland, our localized version of BT), when they dismantled their network
[06:23] <arko> i can finally do something with the POCSAG modules i have in GNU Radio
[06:23] <arko> oh sweet!
[06:23] <nigelvh> My next project is going to be arduino packet decode, so that could be used as a pager like device.
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[06:25] <oh7lzb> but you can also use any newish FM ham rig as the transmitter, as long as it has a 9600 bit/s "data" audio connection which bypasses the audio filter stages
[06:25] <oh7lzb> i.e. yor HAB ft-817 will work fine :) Or a ft-7800 or some other mobile rig.
[06:26] <arko> nice
[06:26] <oh7lzb> We've used Motorola bonk with great success, just have to configure the pin on the back to be a "fast data" pin with no audio stages
[06:26] <oh7lzb> you need good low frequency response to transmit slow FSK
[06:28] <oh7lzb> http://search.cpan.org/~hessu/POCSAG-Encode-1.00/ there's my POCSAG bitstream encoder, and http://wiki.ham.fi/POCSAG_Encoder_and_modem is the rest of the project
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[06:31] <arko> damn
[06:31] <arko> nice documentation
[06:31] <arko> bookmarkin this
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[06:33] <eroomde> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2311137/Duck-Tape-Duct-tape-new-home-decoration-craze--theres-entire-shop.html
[06:33] <eroomde> Upu: "Darling - I've made the front room pink! what do you think?"
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[06:36] <arko> man
[06:36] <arko> i should just go 4 layer
[06:36] <nigelvh> Why do you need 4 layers?
[06:37] <arko> just to get less loss on these lines
[06:37] <arko> but i doubt it would be a problem
[06:37] <arko> more so i can run more wires
[06:37] <arko> break things out
[06:37] <nigelvh> Bah, you can do it with two.
[06:37] <arko> yeah i know
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[06:38] <arko> screw it, im ripping it up again
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[06:38] <arko> ROUND4... FIGHT
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[06:38] <nigelvh> I've done ripups a good number of times. Sometimes it's helpful to rip it up but ALSO reconsider your part placement.
[06:39] <nigelvh> Sometimes it's not always the most intuitive placement that works best.
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[06:39] <UpuWork> zomgpop so need to go to that shop
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[06:42] <eroomde> i like 4 layers!
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[06:42] <arko> me too
[06:42] <eroomde> it's very hard to do it on 2 if you've got lots of high speed signals
[06:42] <arko> cost isn't much more
[06:42] <nigelvh> arko, what's the project?
[06:42] <arko> board is tiny
[06:43] <arko> my pico board
[06:43] <nigelvh> You can do it in two.
[06:43] <nigelvh> You seen KT5TK's pico boards?
[06:43] <KT5TK> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xh9czvbrfka8wih/Fj-JoLJphp/PecanPico3
[06:44] <KT5TK> good morning
[06:44] <nigelvh> Morning KT5TK
[06:44] <eroomde> that's wee
[06:44] <eroomde> i'm doing 4 layers on my gps board
[06:44] <KT5TK> just sent them off
[06:44] <eroomde> i don;t think the gps chip was designed for 2 layer boards
[06:44] <nigelvh> Nice. I just sent off some of mine too, but not a tracker, so less interesting there.
[06:46] <KT5TK> Next project is a linear transverter with a RF2051
[06:46] <nigelvh> For?
[06:47] <arko> holy cow
[06:47] <KT5TK> To hang it on a balloon to make a 443 to 29 MHz repeater
[06:47] <arko> thats a lot of parts
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[06:47] <arko> what does it do?
[06:47] <nigelvh> That would be pretty cool
[06:47] <KT5TK> Like on Oscar 7
[06:48] <KT5TK> Though Oscar 7 is 2m to 10m
[06:48] <nigelvh> Yes, same idea though
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[06:48] <KT5TK> I thought about a habamp, but with a 120kHz SAW on the input
[06:49] <nigelvh> I'm looking forward to seeing if I can kind of bitbang recieve APRS with the 4464
[06:49] <KT5TK> Then a RF2051, a filter and a rf power amp for 10 m
[06:49] <KT5TK> Now that would be interesting.
[06:50] <KT5TK> What would you bitbang?
[06:51] <nigelvh> It's not really designed for AFSK, but it does do FSK recieve, so if I set the two 'tones' to the frequencies where AFSK would be modulating, then have it toggle a pin, I might be able to get it to give me a pin that moves with the audio frequency.
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[06:52] <nigelvh> Just like you can "bitbang" transmit AFSK by modulating FSK like that.
[06:52] <nigelvh> It's not clean, but it works.
[06:52] <KT5TK> So you do the entire audio modulation on the arduino?
[06:52] <KT5TK> demodulation
[06:52] <nigelvh> Yes.
[06:53] <KT5TK> Some guy did this, but with some different OS on the ATmega
[06:54] <nigelvh> I recall there being an arduinotnc project, but my first step would be to see how well the 4464 would deal with that scenario.
[06:54] <nigelvh> Move to demodulating the audio afterwards.
[06:55] <KT5TK> http://www.bertos.org/use/examples-projects/arduino-aprs
[06:56] <oh7lzb> The guys here flew a linear transponder on a balloon once or twice, quite a few years back. Great fun.
[06:56] <eroomde> i believe one of the polish hams on this channel wrote an airborne AFSK (for aprs) decoder on a dsPIC
[06:57] <oh7lzb> arko: The Ettus N210 makes me drool, but it's an expensive little box. Needs a WBX 50-2200 too to make it useful.
[06:57] <arko> yeah
[06:57] <arko> i need to get the top board for it
[06:57] <nigelvh> Yeah, I fully expect it to be possible. As always the devil is in the details, and I'd like to end up with something that really works, rather than sorta works if all the conditions are just right.
[06:58] <KT5TK> oh7lzb: The transverter is a project we try to launch for MSWE http://www.nj2bb.org/museum/
[06:58] <eroomde> http://sp9uob.verox.pl/dstnc.html
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[06:59] <eroomde> we could make an ettus clone for less than that quite easily
[06:59] <nigelvh> There are advantages to the signal processing capabilities of the dsPIC
[06:59] <eroomde> it's a smaller FPGA than the one I'm using for the multi-head gps receiver
[07:00] <eroomde> and it's *much* simpler if you are happy with receive-only
[07:01] <nigelvh> My goal is to get my current tracker using the 4464 doing both TX and RX so it can handle commands or messages.
[07:01] <nigelvh> That would be cool.
[07:01] <nigelvh> Also need to actually update my boards to the 4464, for now just been fiddling with one KT5TK sent me.
[07:01] <eroomde> it's basically just adc-->FPGA-->GigE
[07:02] <eroomde> it'd live or die on whether the layout is good
[07:03] <nigelvh> Would even potentially make a good digipeater.
[07:03] <nigelvh> Albeit low power.
[07:03] <arko> http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/18/mit-police-officer-hit-gunfire-cambridge-police-dispatcher-says/4UeCClOVeLr8PHLvDa99zK/story.html
[07:03] <arko> holy shit
[07:05] <UpuWork> that was quick
[07:06] <UpuWork> I saw the pictures of them on BBC News
[07:06] <nigelvh> Anyway, bed time for me. Night all!
[07:08] <arko> nice!
[07:08] <arko> night*
[07:08] <UpuWork> And Rolf Harris has been arrested as part of operation Yew Tree
[07:08] <griffonbot> @stratodean: We've added some better navigation to the site http://t.co/LmyeaNpiOk #forestofdean #ukhas #lessscrollingmorereading [http://twitter.com/stratodean/status/325143862886666240]
[07:09] <oh7lzb> arko: in related news, http://gawker.com/5994999/is-the-new-york-post-edited-by-a-bigoted-drunk-who-fucks-pigs
[07:10] <arko> my web broswer blocks gawker
[07:10] <arko> :P
[07:10] <arko> set by me
[07:10] <arko> sorry dude, the link title looks funny
[07:14] <arko> wow man
[07:14] <arko> MIT shooting related to bombing
[07:14] <arko> just confirmed
[07:15] <jonsowman> :|
[07:16] <jonsowman> just seen the news
[07:16] <arko> terrible
[07:16] <jonsowman> it is :(
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[07:17] <arko> http://www1.whdh.com/video/7newslive
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[07:20] <arko> Upu: want to over look my pico when you have time?
[07:20] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/vx3Po7S.png
[07:21] <UpuWork> hey Arko
[07:22] <UpuWork> wang me the Eagle files over I'll take a look later
[07:22] <arko> pm'd
[07:24] <Darkside> arko: sarantel, really?
[07:24] <Darkside> thats going to add a heap of weight
[07:25] <arko> hmmm
[07:25] <arko> how many grams?
[07:26] <Darkside> dunno
[07:26] <Darkside> a few
[07:27] <KT5TK> 3g at least sarantel http://www.sarantel.com/products/sl1350
[07:27] <arko> meh
[07:27] <arko> i'll just import antigravity
[07:27] <arko> time to sleep
[07:27] <arko> night yall
[07:28] <jonsowman> night
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[07:29] <KT5TK> I've used this one and I like it: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=AP.10F.07.0039Bvirtualkey57580000virtualkey960-AP10F070039B
[07:30] <fsphil> life is not like python :)
[07:31] <UpuWork> its active as well Darkside
[07:32] <KT5TK> 2 Stage 25dB 10mm Active Ceramic Patch Antenna
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[07:58] Nick change: x-f_ -> x-f
[07:59] <Babs> New balloon book out in the last couple of days on balloons. Nothing technical and all historical. Presumably some salient tales of the perils of hydrogen at some point in it but discussion on NMEA protocols unlikely. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Falling-Upwards-How-Took-Air/dp/0007386923
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[08:01] <Babs> It does feature this guy however http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Glaisher He had some kahunas.
[08:02] <daveake> Probably in a similar vein to the Richard Branson book "Reach for the Skies", and that's worth a read
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[08:08] <Babs> I'll put it on my list daveake. Thanks.
[08:09] <daveake> pm your address you can have mine :-). We're having a clearout ...
[08:11] <fsphil> I know someone who might be interested in that book
[08:11] <daveake> lol
[08:11] <fsphil> though they might already have it
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[08:17] <Babs> Its probably dedicated to him on the inside cover fsphil
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[08:19] <Babs> Imagine the same book written in 200 years. "One early pioneer, fsphil, had become obsessed with dropping a balloon on what is now the People's Republic of Tax-evader-ville. On his 201st attempt, he was successful"
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[09:58] <HixWork> anyone seen this on jetstreams? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22073834
[09:59] <HixWork> http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nclimate1866.html
[10:03] <griffonbot> Received email: Rachel Smith "[UKHAS] Advice needed for Space Launch"
[10:04] Action: fsphil guess not actually space
[10:04] <fsphil> yep
[10:06] <mattbrejza> it would help if they said where they were based, although at a guess somewhere near northampton
[10:17] <costyn> HixWork: well that sucks about that turbulence
[10:17] <HixWork> hmmm yeah
[10:17] <costyn> HixWork: climate change is so depressing. I try to do my bit in reducing my footprint, but it all seems so inevitable and unstoppable
[10:17] <HixWork> another reason to increase flight prices too
[10:18] <costyn> HixWork: well maybe that's a positive thing, if less people fly there'll be less CO2 put into the atmosphere
[10:19] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Advice needed for Space Launch"
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[10:19] <mattbrejza> isnt steve's friends flight on .650 gonna clash?
[10:23] <HixWork> he's launching after Chris ha landed iirc
[10:23] <HixWork> *has
[10:23] <mattbrejza> well aura (joe) is launching after chris
[10:24] <mattbrejza> but the qmu one with steve is seperate?
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[10:24] <mattbrejza> guess theyll have to rely on sun
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[10:36] <griffonbot> Received email: Adrian Hicks "Re: [UKHAS] Advice needed for Space Launch"
[10:36] <griffonbot> Received email: Tomasz Brol "Re: [UKHAS] Re: DL-FLDFIGI [Win] GPS Setvbuf error"
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[11:09] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Advice needed for Space Launch"
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[11:19] <LokisSword> Anyone seen a predictor path for the AURA flight on saturday?
[11:20] <mattbrejza> probably south and east a little
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[11:27] <g7ogxcjris> GOOD MORNING
[11:27] <craag> AFTERNOON!
[11:27] <daveake> VIETNAM
[11:29] <x-f> EHLO
[11:29] <g7ogxcjris> so it is! are we waiting for AURA?
[11:29] <fsphil> ELLO
[11:30] <mattbrejza> you might be waiting a while
[11:30] <g7ogxcjris> just had vy heavy shower here otherwise a nice sunny day
[11:30] <g7ogxcjris> oh ok matt
[11:31] <mattbrejza> (as in 24hrs or so)
[11:32] <g7ogxcjris> Simon Brown's SDR is now in Beta, http://v2.sdr-radio.com/Download.aspx
[11:32] <HixWork> Tomorrow is HAB relay day, NSE1, AURA, and XABEN all following one another on 434.650, keeps setups nice and simple :)
[11:33] <HixWork> just a case of swivelling a yagi round
[11:33] <g7ogxcjris> great and XYL is working!
[11:34] <g7ogxcjris> never did manage to get my brain cell around SSDV tho
[11:36] <craag> A 6x redundant 3G link unit on Man Lab, would be v nice for a chase car, or the SHARP launch site.
[11:37] <mattbrejza> talking of whom, they need to actually launch that?
[11:37] <mattbrejza> although the project should have been handed in by now
[11:38] <craag> It's been handed in according to their twitter, despite never having flown.
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[11:39] <craag> I'll ask andrew this afternoon.
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[11:43] <griffonbot> Received email: PeteA "[UKHAS] Re: Notification of Launch on Sat/Sun 20th/21st"
[11:48] <LokisSword> AURA's launch site is about 30miles south of me so I'm hoping it will be a good chance of getting my first live decodes from tracking.
[11:48] <fsphil> that's practically on top of you
[11:48] <mattbrejza> yea you should have no issues then
[11:50] <LokisSword> Yeah but I'm only on this aerial at the moment: http://www.moonraker.eu/Scanning-Receiving-and-Avionics/Mobile-Scanner-Antennas/SKYSCAN-MOBILE-SCANNER-ANTENNA
[11:51] <LokisSword> So might still not have a chance
[11:51] <LokisSword> Wonder if I might just have the stuff lying around to make a Moxon in time
[11:51] <craag> LokisSword: From 30 miles, with a view of the sky, you could pick it up with a piece of wire in the antenna socket.
[11:52] <craag> I'm basically saying that, with a line-of-sight to the balloon, that antenna will be fine :)
[11:53] <LokisSword> craag: Thanks, that's encouraging news
[11:54] <LokisSword> I've never dabbled with radio before, but I've been lucky in scoring an ICOM PCR-1000 on long term loan from a work mate who's a serious ham.
[11:54] <craag> Nice!
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[12:17] <cuddykid> interesting - finally managed to mount the linux formatted partition of pi sd card.. /boot is empty
[12:17] <cuddykid> some how it's wiped itself
[12:18] <Randomskk> are you sure
[12:18] <Randomskk> often /boot is on a separate partition
[12:18] <Randomskk> so it'l look like the / partition has an empty /boot directory until you actually mount /boot to it
[12:18] <cuddykid> ah, one sec
[12:19] <cuddykid> I have one small partition with code such as bootcode.bin in
[12:20] <cuddykid> the other big partition - with directory boot is empty
[12:20] <Randomskk> that does sound like it could possibly be /boot :P
[12:20] <cuddykid> I guess!
[12:20] <cuddykid> hm, why won't this thing boot up then - something's got corrupted somewhere
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[12:23] <mfa298> i think for the pi /boot is usually a seperate small FAT partition as the GPU needs to be able to load the code from there
[12:23] <S_Mark> if you are looking at the pi sd on a pc then it will look like its only 60mb card
[12:25] <S_Mark> launch in two days
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[12:41] <cuddykid> going to replace all the files in boot partition and see if that helps
[12:41] <cuddykid> Hi WillDuckworth
[12:41] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: got a H2 reg on order :)
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[12:42] <Willdude123> Good afternoon.
[12:44] <Willdude123> Excited, I finally got to filter nmea sentences.
[12:46] <Willdude123> Is there anywhere I can read up on the Ublox protocoL?
[12:50] <craag> Willdude123: The Receiver Description datasheet
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[12:51] <Willdude123> Oh yeah. Forgot about that.
[12:51] <Willdude123> Looks complicated.
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[12:51] <Steffann> It's not that hard Willdude123
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[12:56] <mfa298> you might find it easier to print the data sheet out, that way you can mark pages and scribble on it which can help a lot.
[12:58] <Willdude123> I don't get why nmea is supposed to wbe worse.
[12:59] <mfa298> I've not done enough to know for sure, but I think with UBX you can ask the device for information rather than waiting for it to spit it out, in terms of writing code that can make the code nicer
[12:59] <mattbrejza> you also dont have to do string parsing
[12:59] <mfa298> however if you're using NMEA it should be possible to drop and GPS unit in and it will work,
[12:59] <mattbrejza> and get ints rather than a string
[12:59] <mfa298> s/and/any
[13:00] <mattbrejza> you also need to use ubx to set flight mode
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[13:11] <WillDuckworth> hi cuddykid - how's it going?
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[13:12] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: not bad thanks - got this lab rigging set up and ready to go - probably won't be launching til early-mid june though
[13:12] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: getting all the bits for H2 on order
[13:13] <WillDuckworth> sounds good
[13:13] <cuddykid> and sorting out this pi, which keeps corrupting it's SD card
[13:13] <WillDuckworth> are you ordering h2 from boc?
[13:13] <cuddykid> yep
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[13:13] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: I'll pick it up from the steel centre place in worcs
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[13:14] <cuddykid> ordered my H2 reg via them too - came to just over £120 (incl vat)
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[13:29] <griffonbot> Received email: Jens Pirnay "[UKHAS] Re: DL-FLDFIGI [Win] GPS Setvbuf error"
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[13:34] <griffonbot> Received email: Mike Willis "Re: [UKHAS] Re: DL-FLDFIGI [Win] GPS Setvbuf error"
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[13:59] <cuddykid> after yet another restore, I have my pi back :) - guess I've got a matter of minutes or hours before it corrupts itself again!
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[14:01] <mfa298> cuddykid: your not overclocking the pi are you ?
[14:01] <cuddykid> nope
[14:01] <cuddykid> I think it's an 'incompatible' SD card
[14:02] <cuddykid> will have to do until I get another
[14:02] <mfa298> the other thing that might mean it corrupts is if the power supply is a bit dodgy
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[14:58] <cuddykid> h2 reg has arrived at local boc depot - that was quick :)
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[15:30] <Willdude123> Does zeusbot do message delivery?
[15:30] <mfa298> Willdude123: I don't think he's on here that often. He just tracks flights sometimes
[15:31] <Willdude123> I had a discussion with him about joining Basingstoke Ham Radio club.
[15:31] <Willdude123> He found me in the phone book, except it wasn't me.
[15:32] <UpuWork> PM'd his mail address
[15:32] <UpuWork> http://www.qrz.com/db/G8GTZ
[15:33] <UpuWork> afk
[15:33] <mfa298> if he's who I think he is I've prodded someone who might be able to help.
[15:33] <Willdude123> My granddad said it was someone DOncaster.
[15:33] <Willdude123> Or somehing.
[15:33] <Willdude123> HHe has the same name to me.
[15:33] <Willdude123> So he probably say me in the phone book.
[15:34] <craag> Hi Willdude123
[15:34] <Willdude123> GOod job my ganddad lives ext dorr.
[15:34] <Willdude123> *door
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[15:35] <craag> Willdude123: see PM
[15:38] <Willdude123> Alright.
[15:40] <HixWork> I'm going to attempt to try the "E4000" cozycave dongle this weekend, however, the SMA end launch I have is too small for the slot in the board after the coax connector is removed, will it affect things if i use wire to brifdge the solder? http://i.imgur.com/Nv3uoO8.jpg
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[15:42] <griffonbot> Received email: Rachel Smith "Re: [UKHAS] Advice needed for Space Launch"
[15:42] <Willdude123> Hi again.
[15:42] <Willdude123> Ugh.
[15:42] <Willdude123> Where do IRC logs go?
[15:42] <Willdude123> In IRssi
[15:43] <Willdude123> Does it log by default?
[15:43] <x-f> they aren't saved by default
[15:45] <x-f> Willdude123, "/set autolog on" and then "/save"
[15:45] <x-f> you can see/set the path with "/set autolog_path"
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[15:51] <mfa298> alternativly the logs for this channel are on habhub
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[15:58] <Willdude123> Yeah. I'd like to keep private logs too though.
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[16:00] <craag> mattbrejza: sharp launching next saturday.
[16:01] <craag> blast should be transmitting as well.
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[16:17] <chrisstubbs> just done a bit of a full systems test for tommorow. chase car laptop was lagging like hell on dl-fldigi
[16:17] <number10> what ids the prediction chrisstubbs
[16:17] <number10> is
[16:18] <chrisstubbs> taking ages to sync up and missing the first bit of each sentance. but got another laptop and its all gooood now
[16:18] <chrisstubbs> coming down in kent number10
[16:18] <number10> ah - a not so nice m25 chase over the bridge
[16:18] <mfa298> I've found low powered PC's struggle a bit with dl-fldigi - although that was an old mini-itx system running XP, my netbook was ok but I think only just.
[16:19] <chrisstubbs> yeah, hope the traffic wont be too bad
[16:19] <mfa298> If you're willing to have Java installed then mattbrejza's app seems better (although I've not tested it on the old mini-itx yet)
[16:19] <chrisstubbs> intel atom netbook beat core 2 duo dell XPS
[16:19] <craag> You could try matt's java decoder app, it's a lot better on CPU
[16:20] <chrisstubbs> going to use the netbook, fits a bit better in the car :)
[16:20] <mfa298> there's nothing wrong with having multiple systems.
[16:21] <chrisstubbs> yeah domlins bringing his i5 laptop tommorow too if we need it
[16:21] <fsphil> chrisstubbs: transmit a few 0x00 bytes at the start
[16:22] <mfa298> (I was thinking multiple systems per person)
[16:22] <craag> Changing code the night before a launch :O
[16:22] <craag> never...
[16:22] <fsphil> hah
[16:22] <fsphil> hour before the launch :)
[16:22] <nigelvh> Only the night before?
[16:23] <mfa298> better than SHARP/BLAST, changing it after it should have launched
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[16:23] <eroomde> early days had people changing the code several hours after launch
[16:23] <eroomde> this was before ISH was invented
[16:23] <nigelvh> Need to set up a breakaway programming connection, so you can program as it's lifting off.
[16:23] <eroomde> the stated launch time become more of the time at which you consider a feature freeze
[16:23] <fsphil> OTA upgrade
[16:23] <mfa298> or a pair of AVR's for OTA
[16:23] <nigelvh> That would be fun to play with.
[16:24] <craag> I think there was the idea of using wifi to program SHARP at one point, so it could be re-programmed *just* after launch :P
[16:24] <fsphil> I'm sure you could load a new firmware into eeprom, reboot and have a bootloader flash it
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[16:24] <arko> morning
[16:24] Action: mfa298 wonders how long it would take to flash over 300bd rtty
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[16:24] <fsphil> morning mr.arko
[16:24] <craag> Depends how many bit-errors you cn put up with!
[16:25] <fsphil> 3 minutes assuming no errors and a 5k firmware
[16:25] <mfa298> not sure you can use enough power/bandwidth on 2.4Ghz to really make wifi feasible
[16:25] <craag> mfa298: It was mainly so they could seal the payload box, then re-program it without opening it up again, a process that seems to happen a lot at their launches..
[16:27] Action: mfa298 tries to remember what SHARP stands for, something about being a "Re-useable Platform", cough, cough
[16:27] <chrisstubbs> Shift looks like crap on NSE for tommorow, could be anywhere between 425 and 350hz :/
[16:27] <craag> Hopefully they're not in channel. I could be torpedoing any chances of a future piggyback here..
[16:28] <chrisstubbs> bear that in mind to any listeners :)
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[16:49] <chrisstubbs_> oooo kraken was found?
[16:50] <jonsowman> yep
[16:51] <chrisstubbs_> anywhere near the beach you searched first time?
[16:51] <jonsowman> exactly the same place
[16:51] <jonsowman> i can only conclude they got there first
[16:54] <cuddykid> anyone know what the micro seconds delay should be between txbits for 300 baud?
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[16:55] <cuddykid> no probs - got it
[16:55] <chrisstubbs_> cuddykid on arduino? i thought you had to use a timer interrupt?
[16:55] <cuddykid> chrisstubbs_: I am doing for main code - this is just some prototype code for ssdv
[16:57] <cuddykid> just a quick throw together to see if I can get pi sending ssdv bytes to flight comp and then that to beam it over 300baud
[16:58] <chrisstubbs_> mine struggeles with anything over 100 baud without interrupts
[17:00] <nigelvh> I do 1200 baud without interrupts
[17:00] <nigelvh> (APRS)
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[17:04] <cuddykid> now the nightmare of trying to debug this thing - sounds good over radio, but not decoding
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[17:07] <cuddykid> guessing the delay is slightly out
[17:07] <jonsowman> scope
[17:08] <eroomde> scope is your friiiend
[17:09] Nick change: Guest23860 -> Edjuh
[17:09] <K9JKM> scöpe?
[17:10] <Willdude123> Wait. My granddad says the guy who phoned him was Tim Doncaster or something. I thought it was G8GTZ, which is Noel Matthews.
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[17:11] <cuddykid> no scope
[17:11] <cuddykid> :(
[17:11] <Willdude123> Hmm.
[17:12] <eroomde> get a scope
[17:12] <eroomde> they are your eyes when doing electronics
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[17:12] <cuddykid> got it
[17:12] <fsphil-m> Plus they look cool
[17:13] <cuddykid> it's being picked up at 150 baud
[17:13] <cuddykid> yes, I do need a scope
[17:13] <eroomde> we had this convo before when talking about brushless controllers :)
[17:13] <eroomde> it's the best purhcase you'll make
[17:13] <cuddykid> yes :)
[17:13] <eroomde> just an old hameg 30MHz analog one will be a super thing
[17:13] <eroomde> and will cost you hardly anything
[17:13] <eroomde> infact i got mine free from the university electronics lab
[17:13] <eroomde> as it's easier to give them away than pay for WEEE
[17:14] <cuddykid> I'll have a chat with the uni
[17:14] <cuddykid> actually - Laurenceb ^ know of any scopes going free?!
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[17:16] <Laurenceb> sorry, i dont
[17:16] <Laurenceb> you can use my MSO4054
[17:17] <Laurenceb> but not take it away :P
[17:19] <nigelvh> If you want to pay for shipping I've got an old 10MHz scope
[17:19] <cuddykid> probably be quite a bit coming from the US - thanks anyway though :)
[17:20] <cuddykid> got it working on 300 at last - had to half the micro sec delay down to 1670
[17:20] <cuddykid> seems a bit odd - checking through the code again..
[17:20] <mfa298> radio rallies can be good for scopes
[17:21] <nigelvh> Yeah, go to your local ham radio swap meet. There's bound to be scopes.
[17:21] <nigelvh> Or befriend your local ham club. I got a nice 100MHz scope that one of the hams I know didn't want anymore.
[17:22] <cuddykid> :)
[17:22] <mfa298> I was tempted to get one at the last rally i went to, but I'm not really sure I can justify the space. Having lots of test kit doesn't really work with a small flat
[17:22] <nigelvh> It's a MUST HAVE for electronics work.
[17:22] <nigelvh> There's really no compromise.
[17:23] <nigelvh> I can flat out say that I couldn't get half the stuff I get done without a scope.
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[17:25] <craag> Willdude123: Tim DOncaster is the secretary for Basingstoke ARC.
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[17:27] <zyp> a LA is often a more appropriate tool for digital work than a scope
[17:27] <zyp> and comes without the same space requirements
[17:28] <zyp> and while I can agree that a scope is an essential tool, I find myself using my LA way more often
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[17:30] <arko> same
[17:31] <mfa298> I don't have either yet but a LA is on the shopping list as I can see it being more useful and won't require me to find more space
[17:32] <nigelvh> zyp, depends on what you do more of. I do a good bit of analog work, so a LA is not helpful there. And a scope + my eyes can do some basic LA functions. So for me the scope is more useful. Though a LA is on my list at some point.
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[17:33] <zyp> nigelvh, of course
[17:33] <S_Mark> Sorry about the spacenear map
[17:33] <S_Mark> Had some gps lock issues
[17:33] <craag> S_Mark: Not an issue, it'll be cleared down before tomorrow's flights.
[17:34] <craag> But hmm interesting positions there!
[17:34] <S_Mark> Great, yeah thought there are a few flights tomorrow so doing some final testing now!
[17:34] <jonsowman> lol
[17:34] <mfa298> that is some impressive gps issues
[17:35] <jonsowman> silly ublox
[17:35] <jonsowman> http://archive.hexoc.com/livescripts_old/
[17:35] <jonsowman> oops
[17:35] <jonsowman> ignore
[17:35] <S_Mark> If I stop transmitting for a min, could someone clear me off it please?
[17:35] <craag> Clearly your gps wants to make a transatlantic flight!
[17:36] <S_Mark> Hope not!
[17:36] <craag> :P
[17:36] <S_Mark> lol
[17:36] <jonsowman> S_Mark: cleared
[17:37] <S_Mark> That's great thank you
[17:37] <jonsowman> np
[17:37] <S_Mark> Has there ever been thought of a spacenear test version?
[17:37] <jonsowman> it's never really an issue
[17:37] <S_Mark> There probably has lol
[17:38] <jonsowman> but yes it has been considered
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[17:40] <chrisstubbs_> Hi S_Mark
[17:41] <S_Mark> Hey chrisstubbs
[17:43] <chrisstubbs_> GPS gone to 0,0 again? :P
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[17:44] Nick change: S_Mark2 -> S_Mark_
[17:44] <S_Mark_> How's it going chrisstubbs
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[17:47] <chrisstubbs_> Pretty much according to plan
[17:47] <S_Mark> I've got a question for anyone, why is dl-fldigi called dl-fldigi. Am I right in thinking that it is a port of fldigi? Again same question applies...!
[17:47] <S_Mark> Ah great
[17:47] <chrisstubbs_> shift seems to be a bit low on NSE but not going to change anything now, tracking laptop also failed at tracking as dl-fldigi was lagging too much to decode
[17:48] <S_Mark> oh no
[17:48] <mfa298> S_Mark: I think the DL is distributed Listener
[17:48] <chrisstubbs_> got 2 spares though
[17:48] <chrisstubbs_> right im off for dinner, bbl
[17:49] <mfa298> and it's a number of additions to fldigi (I'm not sure what fldigi stands for, presumably something about digi modes)
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[17:50] <fsphil-m> It uses the fltk GUI toolkit
[17:50] <S_Mark> ah ok, distributed as in everyone has the same software and using it for a common goal
[17:50] <S_Mark> Ah right - and where does that come from, who made it originally?
[17:51] <Willdude123> Will I pick up any of the weekend's payload?
[17:51] <Willdude123> I'll check where all those places are.
[17:52] <mfa298> fltk looks like it's just a toolkit for creating graphical interfaces (there's various similar toolkits)
[17:52] <fsphil-m> Yea
[17:53] <S_Mark> Ah ok cool. Yeah I was just interested really, good bit of software that everyone uses, just wondering if people knew the origins
[17:53] <mfa298> so fldigi probably comes from being a programme for digital modes using fltk
[17:53] <mfa298> fldigi is used by a lot of hams for sending/recieving the various digital modes
[17:54] <mfa298> I came accross it first with psk31 on HF.
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[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> helll
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:39] <nigelvh> Yo
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> weekend!
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> Antares will launch no earlier than Saturday
[18:42] <cuddykid> daveake: what size spanners are needed for the h2 reg if you can remember?
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[18:58] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, your baisingstoke, right?
[18:58] <chrisstubbs> you should get NSE/cheapo if you stick your antenna of the right side of the house!
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[19:43] <arko> man
[19:43] <arko> boston is insane right now
[19:43] <chrisstubbs> certainly looked hectic on the news
[19:44] <arko> eroomde: Boston PD has gone LAPD like that manhunt here last time
[19:44] <arko> streets are deserted
[19:44] <arko> http://imgur.com/a/cA7Y1
[19:47] <eroomde> wow
[19:47] <eroomde> i know that square
[19:47] <arko> yeah
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[19:48] <arko> it's nuts, my friend was forced to stay in his lab till like 1am or so
[19:48] <arko> mit
[19:52] <arko> eroomde: found some dudes hack who used the internal pll of the attiny45 to transmit at 96Mhz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if2DShx3BsE
[19:52] <arko> turns out it works pretty well
[19:53] <arko> no i need to ge 2 coin batteries and stick these on peoples radios
[19:53] <arko> friends car radios*
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[20:03] <Laurenceb_> arko is in boston?
[20:04] Action: Laurenceb_ is travelling to Boston next month
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[20:07] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "[UKHAS] Launch announcement - XABEN48"
[20:09] <craag> oo 600 baud
[20:11] <chrisstubbs> fair number of launches this weekend!
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[20:13] Nick change: sunpy|cadair -> wibblewibble
[20:14] <Willdude123> Hi.
[20:14] <chrisstubbs> sup will
[20:15] <Willdude123> chrisstubbs: Yeah, Oakley.
[20:15] <chrisstubbs> Any more progress on the GPS?
[20:16] <Willdude123> Well, I have it just outputting GPGGA.
[20:16] <chrisstubbs> cool, just got to do somthing with the data now
[20:16] <chrisstubbs> aka the fun part
[20:17] Nick change: wibblewibble -> __Cadair__
[20:20] <Willdude123> Hmm. I have a list of the coordinates I want to average out.
[20:20] <Willdude123> Is there a way to convert the NMEA output latitudes into decimal.
[20:20] <Willdude123> ?
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:21] <Willdude123> In excel.
[20:21] Nick change: __Cadair__ -> Cadair
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[20:22] <mfa298> Willdude123: the first thing is to start trying to find parts of the string. The first thing might be to just look for a $ and make your code print "New String"
[20:22] <chrisstubbs> Talk about low dropout, this 5v reg is working down to 4.2v
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> 12.34567
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> 12 is degrees
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> 34 is minutes, 567 is decimal minutes
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[20:24] <SpeedEvil> so divide 34.567 by 60, and add to 12
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> and remember you need to multiply by different factors for lat and long
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[20:33] <LokisSword> evening all
[20:33] <LokisSword> (please adjust as relevant to your time zone)
[20:36] <craag> LokisSword: It's always morning on irc ;)
[20:38] <LokisSword> hah, fair enough.. just building a moxon for tomorrow
[20:38] <craag> Cool!
[20:39] <fsphil> 600 baud and no images. sheesh, what's steve up to :)
[20:39] <mfa298> trying to break spacenear/habitat I think
[20:39] <craag> Just trying 1hz updates I think.
[20:39] <craag> yeah, and that!
[20:40] <fsphil> spacenear is a good bit harder than it used to be
[20:40] <mfa298> craag: lets hope he has better internet at the launch site then when you tried fast updates
[20:40] <chrisstubbs> copied 1.9mb of CHDK files onto my sd card and it now takes up 2.24gb... wtf
[20:41] <craag> mfa298: Yeah! I'm sure he will though, it's always been impeccable before.
[20:44] <Willdude123> invalid conversion from 'const char*' to 'char'
[20:44] <Willdude123> When I try to do a conditional on a character.
[20:44] <fsphil> neat, http://distancetomars.com/
[20:44] <Willdude123> charchar d = GPS.read(); if (d="$"){ Serial.write("Sentence Found"); }
[20:44] <mfa298> use ' rather than " for a character
[20:44] <Willdude123> * I didn't put charchar
[20:44] <fsphil> use == instead of =
[20:45] <fsphil> = assigns a value, == compares
[20:45] <fsphil> also use '$' not "$"
[20:45] <fsphil> "$" is a string, '$' is just one character
[20:46] <mfa298> also if you havn't in your code it's worth spliting it onto several lines to make it more readable.
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[20:50] <fsphil> TimZ makes a friend: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er5N1Zv3oac
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[20:58] <mfa298> nice get out of copyright message on there
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[21:02] <arko> Laurenceb_: no i am not, im in los angeles
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[21:02] <Robint91> hi all
[21:02] <arko> helloo
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[21:09] <chrisstubbs> Right time for sleep!
[21:10] <chrisstubbs> See you bright and early tommorow guys :)
[21:12] <mfa298> oh yeah, someone thought launching a balloon early on saturday was a good idea didnt they :p
[21:12] <chrisstubbs> Maybe ;)
[21:13] <chrisstubbs> well 9 isnt exactly early
[21:13] <fsphil> on a saturday it is :)
[21:13] <mfa298> On a Saturday it could be counted as early.
[21:15] <chrisstubbs> looks like i will be the only listener then
[21:15] <Morseman> I may be about
[21:17] <chrisstubbs> yay :) should be up about 2 hours if 10 or 11 sounds more reasonable
[21:17] <chrisstubbs> thats the bit that will matter the most!
[21:17] <Morseman> Oh rats, the ISP is on a go slow again - I'll catch up with spacenear.us as soon as I can!
[21:18] <mfa298> Chances are it will have to get up fairly high for me to hear it anyway so there's a chance I'll try :p
[21:19] <mfa298> AURA should be in a better direction for me.
[21:19] <chrisstubbs> Ok cool
[21:19] <chrisstubbs> Night!
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[21:20] <mfa298> extra unseen costs of HAB - wanting to buy a house on the top of a hill (rather than being surrounded on 3 sides by re-inforced concrete
[21:20] <Morseman> I get up at about 8am to give one of our cats its meds, and if we are having my grand daughter, I'm on the road at about 10am (ish) but this weekend we don't have Megan so I'll be home longer
[21:21] <Morseman> mfa298 same for Amateur Radio above 28MHz :-)
[21:22] <Morseman> Being 170m ASL helps for HAB monitoring as well
[21:22] <Morseman> But Upu always seems to have better RX than I do...
[21:23] <mfa298> with my current location it's also true for Amateur radio below 28MHz although that's more about being able to get wires outside.
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[21:25] <mfa298> When I moved into this flat my radio operations mostly consisted of occasional mobile usage so it was less of an issue.
[21:26] <Morseman> OK - got an idea of where and when tomorrow - would have been ideal as Kate was going to be away, but she's not now, so my life is not under my complete control as I would have liked...
[21:27] <Morseman> Not very good at under 28MHz to be honest
[21:28] <Morseman> I'd hoped to be able to drop the antenna pole, turn the 70cm yagi to vertical and replace the 23cm amp tomorrow whilst Kate was away - not likely to happen now. :-(
[21:30] <Morseman> What bands did/do you do mobile mfa298 ?
[21:30] <mfa298> maybe you should keep the yagi horizontal and persuade people to launch HAB's with a horizontal Halo antenna.
[21:30] <mfa298> mobile was mostly 2/70 with a handheld when I started off.
[21:30] <Morseman> I'm considering using crossed dipoles...
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[21:31] <mfa298> I could probably do 10m now in the car.
[21:31] <WilldudeTablet> Hi.
[21:31] <mfa298> although I don't often drive far enough to make operating worth while.
[21:31] <Morseman> But as well as turning the 14 ele 70cm beam I have a 70cm Wimo to put up for horizontal polarisation as well
[21:32] <mfa298> most of my decent sized operating has been doing special events so generally hasn't been under my own call
[21:32] <Morseman> I have used 2M and 70m in the car, and 70MHz (4M) as well
[21:33] <mfa298> I keep meaning to play with 4m, need to sort out a microphone for the ex PMR I bought - but it seems to be a not so common one
[21:33] <Morseman> I have an FT817 and a 10M vertical for mobile, so 10M is possible as well...
[21:33] <fsphil> if it's dry long enough tomorrow I'll have my vertical wired up. might have a play on 10m
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[21:34] <mfa298> I tend to be 817 for mobile these days.
[21:34] <Morseman> I used to do JOTA and various other special events, but not done much on that front lately
[21:34] <Morseman> I Kate lets me ( ! ) I could set up on 10M with a small antenna
[21:35] <mfa298> hmm, maybe I should prod some of the locals tomorrow and find a hill to track balloons from and take a 10m antenna.
[21:35] Action: craag runs
[21:35] <mfa298> although I have no idea what propogation is like these days
[21:37] <fsphil> worth a shout
[21:37] <Morseman> 10M is always a good local band, but no one seems to use it, a bit like 27MHz for CB
[21:38] <craag> mfa298: I would, but got 3yp to finish, and I'm already taking sunday out to go up to kempton park.
[21:38] Action: mfa298 thinks one of the other locals is busy tomorrow
[21:38] <mfa298> craag: I suspected 3yp's might get in the way.
[21:38] <Morseman> Most people seem to wait for short or long skip Es and the, at max. solar activity, longer range contacts. But, at 'normal' times it's not used much.
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[21:40] <fsphil> nor is CB here now
[21:40] <Morseman> My daughter has handed in her dissertaion but has other essays and presentations to do, so I know that it's a busy time if you are an under, or post, graduate..
[21:41] <mfa298> there's a bit of CB here but it's mostly the locals late at night on C19.
[21:41] <Morseman> Not listened in a long while - I was on CB before I got my Amateur licence - way back in late 70s...
[21:43] <mfa298> I had a friend when I was at school who was into CB, so I then jumped over that straight into AR and I think he moved onto AR a year or two later.
[21:43] <Morseman> I had a look on some websites and found out that there's more frequencies available now. I admit I was on illegal AM, but now there's more tham the old UK FM frequencies available now
[21:43] <mfa298> although I think that was when CB was still fairly popular
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[21:44] <mfa298> I think there's 40 UK channels and 40 Euro channels now and I think the euro channels are accross most of europe (if not all)
[21:45] <fsphil> indeed
[21:45] <fsphil> it's a big chunk of spectrum
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[21:46] <Morseman> Yes, that's what I found out, but looking at prices at truck stops (cheap eating places when you have to drive many miles) the 'rigs' are more expensive than Amateur Radio rigs...
[21:47] <mfa298> you can get them fairly cheapyly on ebay, there's even the occasional CB handheld
[21:47] <Morseman> Audio quality always seemed poor on a 'CB' radio
[21:48] <mfa298> although you have to be careful of the people who've done things to their radios (although that can also be true for amateur kit)
[21:48] <Morseman> That's true!
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[21:49] <mfa298> I think the audio quality can be hard to judge at times through the echo mics. Although when I've used it for comms a few times it's been ok.
[21:49] <Morseman> I wonder what ratio of Amateur HABers to non-Amateur HABers?
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[21:50] <fsphil> suspect it'll be close to 50/50
[21:50] <Morseman> If many non-Amateur HABers might be a good idea to get a basic CB for on the ground comms?
[21:50] <mfa298> I think a lot of HABbers are licensed as well but not all
[21:50] <fsphil> pmr446 would probably be better
[21:50] <eroomde> the foundation license is so easy nowadays
[21:50] <Morseman> I have some pmr446
[21:50] <eroomde> especially to the more technical types attracted to hab
[21:51] <Morseman> Trouble is the restriction on antennas
[21:51] <fsphil> though the flaw with 446 mhz is it's rather near 434 mhz
[21:51] <mfa298> the other interesting question might be of the licensed people how many have done AR -> HAB and how many are HAB -> AR
[21:51] <arko> you guys have hab licenses?
[21:51] <eroomde> i did my first few habs without a licence
[21:51] <eroomde> then got the license so i could make radios
[21:51] <Morseman> arko No it's a question of chicken and egg...
[21:51] <eroomde> so HAB -> AR for me
[21:52] <eroomde> although i'm not much into AR, just the technical stuff
[21:52] <mfa298> CB is probably more useful than PMR but for cheap radios you're looking at 2nd hand.
[21:52] <fsphil> HAB -> AR here, though with some CB'ing in the 90s
[21:52] <number10> no nead for a license for hab arko
[21:52] <arko> gotcha
[21:52] <Morseman> arko How many got interested in HAB and then did AR and how many, like me, had AR then got interested in HAB
[21:52] <mfa298> I'm part of the AR -> HAB crowd
[21:53] <Morseman> mfa298 same here
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[21:54] <Morseman> Maybe I should plot my path as CB > AR > HAB :-)
[21:54] <eroomde> i might have been that way in that i'd probably have got a license so i could experiemnt by now even without hab
[21:54] <mfa298> I'd hazzard a guess that most of the G somethings have done AR -> HAB
[21:54] <eroomde> but it just so happens i did my first hab at 18 which was before i ever particularly had the urge to AR
[21:54] <eroomde> (M0 here)
[21:55] <Morseman> mfa298 to prove your theory I'm also known as G0DJA on here ;)
[21:55] <mfa298> Morseman: I'd remembered you were a G0 something
[21:55] <Morseman> :)
[21:56] <mfa298> I'm only a lowly M1 (although I don't think they're available these days)
[21:56] <number10> I thought it would be cool to make the radio for a hab. decided to take AR and was disapointed to find out that you cant tx airborne
[21:56] <Morseman> No such thing as a 'lowly'...
[21:57] <Morseman> I was a G6 something and hated the way some people looked down on others due to their callsign issue - Snobbery in its worst case
[21:58] <mfa298> well some people certainly used to think so. One of these days I'll finish learning morse code so I can appreciate it (having never had to appreciate it in an exam situation)
[21:58] <Morseman> I did the CW test 3 times until I passed, it was never a good way to assess techical ability IMHO
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[21:59] <Morseman> I lie CW, I like using it, I'm a member of several organisations that encourage its use, but accept that it is not everyones cup-of-tea
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[22:00] <Morseman> but, like many things, it can be an acquired taste.
[22:00] <Morseman> lie = like
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[22:00] <eroomde> guess i can see the fun. just you and your paddle
[22:01] <eroomde> but it's not really very efficient
[22:01] <mfa298> I can see the reasons behind needing the test but I think I prefer the current system.
[22:01] <Morseman> On UHF and SHF it has great advantages...
[22:01] <Morseman> I prefer the current system as well
[22:02] <eroomde> same :)
[22:02] <Morseman> On Aurora it's so much easier to copy than SSB
[22:02] <mohsul_> i am launching tomorrow, and wanted to ask if i could get it approved: b03dbf2bb5e78013914ee4d5ee7ba7e0 ??
[22:02] <craag> mohsul_: Be patient, Daniel will get round to it.
[22:02] <eroomde> i have little interest in manually generating beeps, it seems like an arbitrary imposition between me and permission to experiment with radio waves
[22:02] <eroomde> so i'm glad it's gone
[22:03] <eroomde> mohsul_: ask on #habhub
[22:03] <craag> There's talk of removing the morse-appreciation from the foundation license now.
[22:03] <Morseman> Plus, on bands over 50MHz the DX stations often go to CW to avoid the SSB pile ups for a while. ;)
[22:03] <mohsul_> oh, sorry, i thought no one was active on that channel
[22:04] <eroomde> you might have to be patient
[22:04] <eroomde> it's a friday evening
[22:04] <eroomde> people have other things to do
[22:04] <Morseman> eroomde to each their own. You do what you want and I'll do mine - No problem with that personally
[22:04] <eroomde> zackly
[22:04] <mfa298> eroomde: I think the reasoning used to be that if the primary user of a lot of the HF spectrum wanted you to get off it was likely they'de tell you via morse, although I expect that wasnt true for a number of years before the change
[22:05] <eroomde> as long as people can show so generally competency and ability to be responsible, let them at it
[22:05] <Morseman> occasionally we overlap on things like HAB - who knew? :)
[22:06] <eroomde> indeed!
[22:06] <Morseman> mfa298 that was probably only the case before about 1930 - It's been a old chestnut ever since
[22:06] <craag> mfa298: My dad found the old post office key that was with my FT101, so I'm planning to try learning cw as a break from exam revision.
[22:06] <mfa298> maybe they should change the morse appreciation for rtty appreciation or HAB appreciation - we could significantly improve the listener network
[22:07] <craag> hehe
[22:07] <eroomde> i did start being able to decode rtty at one point
[22:07] <eroomde> i mean, super roughly
[22:07] <eroomde> could tell when i had lock
[22:07] <nigelvh> Dial up anyone?
[22:08] <craag> Yeah thats useful!
[22:08] <Morseman> Since at least the second world war, if they want to tell you to stop, they will find you in other ways not involving Morse code...
[22:08] <eroomde> :)
[22:08] <mfa298> so that's what those Black helicopter were
[22:08] <arko> http://windytan.blogspot.fi/2012/11/the-sound-of-dialup-pictured.html?m=1
[22:08] <nigelvh> That was an awesome infographic
[22:09] <arko> yeah
[22:09] <arko> love it
[22:09] <eroomde> yes amazing
[22:09] <arko> i sometimes like to hear the sounds just for comfort
[22:09] <Morseman> But, CW is still a useful mode. EME, 10GHz rainscatter, VHF/UHF via aurora all come into my preference (except I've never managed EME yet)
[22:09] <arko> although i hated it a long time ago
[22:09] <qyx_> one question here, how is duty cycle applicable to dsss modulation? i assume that it limits the rf transmitter, not the incoming data
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[22:10] <Morseman> If I'd passed my CW test 1st go I'd probably have thrown the key in the back of the cupboard and never used it again
[22:10] <eroomde> yes it would apply to the transmitter
[22:10] <eroomde> i suspect there is no way you could argue dsss is allowable
[22:10] <eroomde> but i suspect there is little chance anyone would notice you flying it too :)
[22:11] <Morseman> But, I failed, twice, on the sending part, so when I finally passed I decided to keep the skill available
[22:11] <mfa298> there are some good comments on that modem clip
[22:11] <eroomde> i did take a couple of cw lessons
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[22:11] <eroomde> but really i think the point was i rushed my 3 exams (did them in about 6 weeks) just because i really wanted to start tinkering with the electronics
[22:11] <eroomde> and just saw it as a hurdle that had to be jumped
[22:11] <eroomde> i may yet grow to appreciate it a bit more
[22:12] <mfa298> I've started trying to learn morse a few times, I can now at least reckognise a CQ call on HF
[22:12] <qyx_> eroomde: so 863-860MHz 7MHz bandwidth dsss using 1023bit pseudorandom sequence and 0.1% allowed duty cycle for that band and dsss it doesn't seem to be buch usable
[22:12] <eroomde> i suspect 0.1% is basically unusually
[22:12] <qyx_> according to EN 300 220
[22:12] <mfa298> but I think I've enjoyed it more because I've never had to do morse as part of an exam
[22:12] <eroomde> unless you send a single sentece once an hour or somwething
[22:13] <qyx_> hm, thats 6.8bits/second
[22:13] <qyx_> ok, nevermind
[22:13] <eroomde> are you particularly keen to use spread spectrum?
[22:14] <qyx_> i'd only like to try it, but seems not to be feasible
[22:14] <qyx_> to hide the communication
[22:15] <eroomde> well, if you want to hide anyway, why care about duty cycle rules?
[22:15] <qyx_> hm :)
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[22:16] <eroomde> code hop just to be sure :)
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[22:16] <eroomde> and maybe use something other than 1023 bits long as everyone knows thoseones and i could find you in about 1 second
[22:16] <eroomde> :)
[22:18] <qyx_> i could use anything randomly generated, but mls's correlations can be done easily
[22:18] <eroomde> mls?
[22:19] <arko> eroomde: jpl just posted a bunch of mech engineering jobs today
[22:19] <arko> https://careerlaunch.jpl.nasa.gov/
[22:19] <arko> just sayin
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[22:19] <arko> 2020 rover apparently
[22:19] <qyx_> maximum length sentences
[22:19] <eroomde> i don't do mech eng :)
[22:20] <arko> fair enough, nither do i
[22:20] <arko> im betting there will be ee jobs soon
[22:21] <eroomde> i thought they were low on money atm
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[22:21] <eroomde> half of them had to pull out of the AIAA conf on decelerators
[22:21] <eroomde> including tom
[22:21] <eroomde> travel budgets axed
[22:22] <arko> stupid budget
[22:22] <arko> yeah, nothing has been approved for 2014 as of yet
[22:22] <arko> proposed stuff aint lookin muhc better
[22:22] <arko> not terrible, but not good
[22:24] <eroomde> qyx_: i did consider doing something like this on 70cms
[22:24] <eroomde> and not telling anyone (whoops)
[22:24] <eroomde> just to have a reliable full duplex link with a hab
[22:24] <eroomde> but it's a lot of effort for not much, really
[22:24] <qyx_> yep, there are even no restrictions on that in this document
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[22:57] <arko> http://io9.com/roboticists-discover-the-secret-of-insect-flight-and-i-476242076
[22:57] <arko> very cool
[22:58] <arko> had to unblock gawker to see it :P
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[00:00] --- Sat Apr 20 2013