highaltitude.log.20130418

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[05:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Jens Pirnay "Re: [UKHAS] Re: DL-FLDFIGI [Win] GPS Setvbuf error"
[05:38] <Darkside> same here too..
[05:38] <Upu> morning Darkside
[05:38] <Darkside> hey Upu
[05:39] <Darkside> hows things
[05:39] <Darkside> i am matlabbing
[05:39] <Upu> very very windy
[05:39] <Darkside> fun
[05:39] <Darkside> its a nice day here
[05:39] <Upu> I'm watching my fence slowly tear itself apart
[05:39] <Upu> and hoping the antenna doesn't come down
[05:40] <Darkside> uploading a pic taken out my window
[05:40] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/de1YgUb.jpg
[05:41] <Upu> lol
[05:41] <Darkside> beautiful day
[05:41] <Upu> imagine the opposite of that and you have mine
[05:41] <Darkside> 22 degrees
[05:41] <Darkside> heh
[05:41] <DrLuke> it's really nice here aswell
[05:42] <DrLuke> although there are some irrus louds
[05:42] <DrLuke> cirrus*
[05:43] <x-f> morning, sunny and windy here
[05:46] <x-f> also, some bridges are getting stress-tested by nature - http://youtu.be/EpEOhQB-lCo
[05:48] <Upu> not sure I'd want to walk over that
[05:54] <x-f> adrenaline for the rest of the life
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[06:21] <costyn> x-f: that bridge is nuts man
[06:22] <costyn> x-f: is it getting hammered by the ice floating by?
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[06:29] <eroomde> morning
[06:31] <jarod> Darkside that a guy wire? :)
[06:31] <number10> morning
[06:34] <Darkside> jarod: yeah
[06:34] <Darkside> well
[06:34] <Darkside> tensioned wire with a bit of coax running on it
[06:35] <jarod> ah, not a 1KM mast ... ok :P
[06:37] <x-f> costyn, yes, the ice on rivers were as thick as 30-40 cm, we also got lots of snow during the winter, now it was very warm last two weeks, and the seasonal floods have started, water levels in some areas are up by 5-6 meters
[06:38] <eroomde> this is really awesome
[06:38] <eroomde> http://www.holmea.demon.co.uk/GPS/Main.htm
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[06:54] <eroomde> infact that guy is awesome
[06:54] <eroomde> his fractional-N synthesiser is lovely. Especially all his techniques for reducing ground bounce in the FPGA.
[06:55] <eroomde> he is a clever banana
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[07:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Mike Willis "RE: [UKHAS] Tools for Prototyping"
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[07:23] <fsphil> ground bounce sounds painful
[07:27] <eroomde> fo yo high speed signals yes
[07:28] <fsphil> hmm.. not something I have to worry about at 300 baud. I must have a play with something faster
[07:30] <kokey> 'winter' is starting in cape town
[07:30] <kokey> people are wearing coats and everything
[07:30] <kokey> I'm wearing a short sleaved shirt
[07:30] <kokey> and put a flat cap on when I go outside
[07:35] <fsphil> that's a stark outlook
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[07:59] <Brace> kokey: sounds awful, hope you can cope with the grimness
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[08:21] <kokey> yeah it was raining and everything yesterday
[08:21] <kokey> the sun is shining today as it does after the rain stops
[08:23] <costyn> kokey: sounds lovely
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[08:26] <fsphil> we know summer has started here when it begins raining
[08:27] <Brace> http://theoatmeal.com/blog/seattle_weather < pretty much what we get in the UK
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[08:29] <Brace> excepet for I'd say our summer is a lot earlier
[08:29] <Brace> normally Mayish
[08:29] <Brace> and we sometime get luck with another fortnight of decent weather in September
[08:31] <fsphil> whoa, a customer emailed a jpeg2000 file. first time I've seen one 'in the wild'
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[08:35] <DrLuke> craz,
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[08:43] <Brace> fsphil: jp2 right? never seen one either
[08:44] <fsphil> yea. I've seen them but have had to go out and look for them
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[08:46] <DrLuke> your customer wants to meys with you :P
[08:46] <DrLuke> mess*
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[08:48] <kokey> Brace: it's only been early the past couple of years
[08:49] <kokey> I remember distinctly around 2005-2007 that it only started around mid June
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[08:52] <fsphil> DrLuke: haha, he didn't count on me having a plugin for photoshop
[08:52] <DrLuke> hehe
[08:52] <DrLuke> send any replies with an even more obscure format
[08:52] <DrLuke> like that disney one
[08:53] <fsphil> ssdv
[08:53] <DrLuke> haha
[08:53] <DrLuke> just send him a soundfile
[08:56] <daveake> I had one image sent as some strange extension which I think was some sort of MS Office object
[08:56] <fsphil> and a note just saying "RTTY, 300 baud, 8N2"
[08:56] <daveake> LSB
[08:56] <costyn> daveake: I always "love" it when customers send screenshots inside MS Word documents <sigh>
[08:56] <daveake> Don't for get to convert to a tz first
[08:57] <daveake> yep me too :(
[08:57] <daveake> For my programs I have a "send to support" button which takes and sends a screenshot, stack dump and PC/Windows info
[08:58] <daveake> but they still send ms office docs/spreassheets with screen dumps
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[09:15] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Permission In US, Canada, Greenland & Norway"
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[09:18] <fsphil> they've an awful habit of using caps lock to make single capital letters here
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[09:53] <craag> Well the RSGB websdr is actually worse than I thought it might be. Congrats rsgb..
[09:53] <hibby> wow.
[09:53] <hibby> that's impressive
[09:53] <hibby> is it like $hamSite++[6~
[09:55] <craag> It's an old java-only version of the WebSDR software, in a tiny iframe, pointed at a dyndns address, hosted by a small business on the same building as a HF APRS transmitter..
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[10:24] <PE2G> Hi, currently om 404.210 MHz near Stowmarket, UK, a DFM-06, alt. 22 km climbing 2 m/s.
[10:25] <PE2G> http://s17.postimg.org/f6igm4qsf/Screen806.jpg
[10:26] <cuddykid> is this a flight going on atm?
[10:26] <costyn> my UK geography knowledge is improving a lot lately due to all these launches. :) although not sure if the knowledge is of any use :)
[10:26] <cuddykid> what radio is that on 404?
[10:26] <fsphil> it's a met office sonde
[10:27] <cuddykid> ah
[10:27] <mfa298> wow, that rsgb websdr is like going back in time 6 years
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[10:27] <costyn> wind is going bonkers here today. 50+ km/h winds
[10:27] <fsphil> costyn: when I was last in a plane I was able to recognise landmarks from my balloon pics
[10:28] <costyn> fsphil: nice
[10:28] <costyn> mfa298: link?
[10:29] <costyn> mfa298: not sure why, but nearly all amateur radio webpages look like they were made in 1999 and never updated after that
[10:29] <mfa298> costyn: http://rsgbbeta.org/myrsgb/web-sdr-receiver/
[10:30] <mfa298> the rsgb have just launched a new site, which might just have been designed in the early/mid 2000's
[10:30] <HixWork> I've been navigating the UK and a bit of Europe from plane windows for a few years. Great way to whille away the time in flights
[10:31] <eroomde> it is windy here too
[10:31] <eroomde> decided not to cycle today as the forcast was 35km/h direct-on headwind on the way home
[10:31] <eroomde> which is next to impossible to make progress against
[10:31] <eroomde> would take me about 3 hours to get home
[10:31] <oh7lzb> Function before form! Craigslist is from late 90s, but it's still clearly the most popular classifieds site.
[10:32] <costyn> mfa298: ah yea, it just looks old because the Java gui elements are outdated
[10:32] <costyn> mfa298: and the use of an serif font doesn't help either
[10:33] <mfa298> costyn: the websdr looks like it's doing what the first version of http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/ did in around 2007
[10:34] <costyn> mfa298: ah yea
[10:35] <mfa298> actually, reading the history it might even have been 2004/2005
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[10:43] <x-f> relevant to today's weather observations - http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ch/2013/ch130418.gif
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[11:46] <HixWork> The arduino interrupt code - am I correct in thinking that only one function can access the timer?
[11:47] <Darkside> only one function will get called
[11:47] <Darkside> the ISR
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[11:50] <PE2G> Hi, just airborne: De Bilt ozone sonde
[11:50] <PE2G> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FPE2G-11&timerange=10800&tail=10800
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[11:51] <Darkside> hah did you write a sondemonitor to APRS thing?
[11:51] <costyn> 80 km/h I'd thought it would be faster :)
[11:52] <PE2G> Did not write anything myself
[11:52] <Darkside> so someone wrote one
[11:53] <costyn> PE2G: did it launch from Soesterberg or is that the first trackpoint you have?
[11:53] <oh7lzb> Wat? You putting sondes on my web site? Outrage!
[11:53] <Darkside> oh7lzb: ohi aprs.fi person
[11:53] <costyn> PE2G: nevermind, I see it was already at 2KM there
[11:53] <Darkside> when are you going to support DF bearings already :p
[11:53] <costyn> oh7lzb: :)
[11:53] <PE2G> http://projetoicaro.wordpress.com/sm2aprs_en/
[11:53] <Darkside> i wanna do cooperative foxhunting!
[11:53] <Laurenceb> you'll have to get rid of peta then
[11:54] <Darkside> lol
[11:54] <oh7lzb> Darkside: As soon as I have my DF project working on the roof of my car :)
[11:54] <Darkside> amateur radio foxhunting
[11:54] <Darkside> oh7lzb: awwwww
[11:54] <Darkside> can't you do it before that :P
[11:54] <Darkside> at the moment it just interprets it as a comment
[11:54] <costyn> Laurenceb: and good riddance... what a scary, pretentious, lying, hypocritical company
[11:54] <oh7lzb> People Eating Tasty Animals?
[11:54] <Darkside> (which, i guess, it is)
[11:54] <PE2G> Diffiicult reception because of two sondes almost on the same freq 403.900 and 430.910
[11:55] <oh7lzb> Darkside: Got a nice algorithm for phase difference measurement between a reference signal (sine) and a noisy received tone?
[11:55] <Darkside> oh7lzb: nope
[11:56] <Darkside> i have a book here about doppler DFing
[11:56] <Darkside> well
[11:56] <Darkside> a folder with stuff in it
[11:56] <Darkside> i ave a friend who wrote one in M68K assembly
[11:56] <oh7lzb> That's a prerequirement for getting my DF running. My PLL isn't quite working.
[11:56] <gonzo_> fox hunting is banned in the UK. They do what is calkled 'drag hunting' now. So suppose you will be a load of old hams running around the countryside in women;s clothes?
[11:56] <costyn> gonzo_: lol
[11:57] <Darkside> oh7lzb: well you could at least support the DF message so those of us doing it manually can do it
[11:57] <Darkside> i was going to be submitting bearing packets manually
[11:57] <oh7lzb> Also, someone needs to finish painting+wallpapering the apartment first.
[11:57] <x-f> costyn, there you go - 194 km/h at 6.1 km
[11:57] <Darkside> as in, take a bearing with a yagi, then with a bit of python code, enter the bearing, and it submits it to APRS-IS
[11:57] <Darkside> problem is hardly any software will parse the damn DF packets
[11:58] <Darkside> ui-view won't
[11:58] <oh7lzb> You paint my apartment, I do the DF code? :)
[11:58] <Darkside> :P
[11:58] <Darkside> but difficult when i'm down here in australia
[11:58] <costyn> x-f: ooh :)
[11:58] <costyn> x-f: that's some serious head/tail wind if you're an airliner
[11:58] <gonzo_> just mail him a paint tin with a stick of gelagnite in it
[11:59] <Darkside> mr bean style
[11:59] <Steffanx> You are not that Benadski on circuitsonline.net are you costyn ?
[11:59] <oh7lzb> The things-to-do list is a bit too long right now to do DF stuff. Maybe later this year.
[11:59] <gonzo_> mythbusters tested that one ages ago
[11:59] <costyn> Steffanx: no, but a guy at my hackerspace is called Benadski
[11:59] <costyn> Steffanx: which is him
[12:00] <Darkside> oh7lzb: aww its just a line, right? >_>
[12:00] <costyn> Steffanx: join #revspace here on freenode if you want to talk to him
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[12:01] <costyn> Steffanx: why did you think I was him?
[12:02] <Steffanx> Nah, i was actually for 99.9% sure you werent him. :)
[12:02] <costyn> Steffanx: is it because we're both Dutch? :P
[12:03] <Steffanx> He links to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKNbJCVRXhA in his forum signature
[12:03] <oh7lzb> Darkside: Parser feature, DB+JSON schemas to store and communicate, and the UI code to show if
[12:03] <oh7lzb> to show it.
[12:03] <costyn> Steffanx: ah, yes, well I'm Costyn hehe :)
[12:04] <costyn> Steffanx: but so yea, now you know the link... we are members at the same hackerspace
[12:04] <x-f> costyn, jarod on another chatroom said, that one airplane just missed the approach
[12:05] <costyn> x-f: due to wind?
[12:06] <x-f> should be
[12:06] <costyn> x-f: can't find it on flightradar24.com, but I'm sure he's right
[12:07] <x-f> http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/a6-edi
[12:08] <costyn> x-f: not just any plane either :)
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[12:10] <Steffanx> x-f it's there for sure :)
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[12:23] <HixWork> cheers Darkside
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[12:33] <HixWork> Ha, British Navy Seals http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-22168838
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[12:38] <Willdude123> Afternoon guys..
[12:38] <fsphil> seems strange spacenear.us being so emtpy
[12:39] <fsphil> ello will
[12:41] <PE2G> fsphil: Follow the O3 Sonde to fill the emptiness :)
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[12:45] <Willdude123> Arduino nano looks interesting...
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[12:46] <Willdude123> I don't get how people use raw ICs as flight micrc
[12:46] <Willdude123> *microcontrollers
[12:47] <HixWork> it's basically a nano without al the pins broken out
[12:47] <mattbrejza> if you actually look at the nano there isnt that much on it
[12:47] <HixWork> *all
[12:47] <mfa298> Willdude123: the arduino is mostly just an AVR microcontroller and a few other bits to make it work
[12:47] <mattbrejza> (i assume he means from a hardware point of view?)
[12:48] <costyn> Willdude123: do they still sell the nano?
[12:49] <costyn> Willdude123: as far as I know it has been replaced with the micro
[12:49] <mfa298> I think the other part to using an AVR without the arduino stuff is being able to read and understand the datasheet that comes with the chip
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[13:12] <PE2G> O3 sonde burst at around 32 km
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[13:15] <andyn> Could someone please approve our flight doc? PSB is the callsign
[13:15] <costyn> oh7lzb: all those ship tracks on aprs.fi, are those from the AIS system?
[13:17] <PE2G> costyn: yes, they are.
[13:19] <andyn> I guess this is the wrong time to ask for the doc approval, it is mid night in UK :)
[13:19] <Darkside> not qwuite
[13:19] <Darkside> andyn: see pm
[13:19] <Darkside> i'm with the project horus team
[13:19] <Darkside> they need the document id, not just the callsign, iirc
[13:20] <gonzo_> it's mid day here in UK
[13:20] <staylo_> that's the problem with being an island, you never know what time zone you'll end up in
[13:21] <gonzo_> we're OK on our island, as we invented time
[13:21] <oh7lzb> costyn: yes, they are.
[13:22] <gonzo_> then we mess it up by adding an hour in the summer
[13:22] <LazyLeopard> Yeah. Stupid idea.
[13:23] <costyn> ok thx
[13:23] <LazyLeopard> Here I'm told they've had DST foisted on them by legislators three or four times, and each time they've subsequently given it the boot in a referendum.
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[13:35] <Maxell> Do you guys know the freqency of the ozone sonde sonde
[13:35] <Maxell> PE2G: I think you know :P
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[13:35] <PE2G> 403.900
[13:35] <Darkside> somewhere berween 401 and 403.5MHz
[13:35] <Darkside> whoops
[13:36] <PE2G> Maxell: Are you in the landing area?
[13:37] <Maxell> PE2G: no, The Hague.
[13:40] <Maxell> Yeah, nothing here
[13:41] <PE2G> Elevation from Almelo is stil 6 deg.
[13:41] <Maxell> Hmm.
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[13:42] <Maxell> PE2G: could be the HAMamp doing it's thing.
[13:42] Nick change: aTRain_ -> [a]Train
[13:42] <fsphil> habamp will filter out sondes
[13:42] <Maxell> I recieved one before we had the habamp with the Diamond X-50N
[13:43] <fsphil> it's quite a sharp filter, anything outside 430-440 mhz will get filtered pretty good
[13:43] <fsphil> I can't hear my local sonde at 402.7mhz with it in line
[13:44] <Maxell> :)
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[13:44] <Maxell> More reasons for the discone next to it.
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[13:45] <PE2G> I'm receiving this on the same 7 el. yagi that I use for HABs
[13:45] <gonzo_> or put the amp at the mast head and the filter down at the radio end, so you can bypass it if req
[13:45] <Maxell> I hope the E4000 can handle a strong pager next to it or I should make a pager-filter next to it
[13:45] <Darkside> it won;t handle it
[13:46] <Maxell> fuc
[13:46] <Darkside> depends on the band though
[13:46] <Darkside> pagers on 2m, rx on 70cm?
[13:47] <Maxell> Pager is 169.650 MHZ and 420-430 MHz
[13:47] <gonzo_> if very close, and using a dual band rx ant, you can still get overload of the LNA. Though with the dynamic ranges of some of tghese new devices, that is becoming less of an issue
[13:48] <gonzo_> (i thought pager TX were all disappearing? Does anyone/anything use them still?)
[13:48] <fsphil> last I decoded them it was mostly service updates and medical emergencies
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[13:50] <gonzo_> these days, I'm sure that there are more reliable systems, than hoping that a 100W VHF tx will be heard on a tiny loop antenna in someones pocket.
[13:51] <fsphil> sms
[13:51] <gonzo_> exactly
[13:51] <gonzo_> or an aknowledged system
[13:52] <gonzo_> well, sms is ack'ed at the far end, but the operators don't choose to send that info back
[13:53] <x-f> reports don't work for SMS in UK?
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[13:56] <cuddykid> got a big tarpaulin sheet :D perfect for setup/filling
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[14:01] <HixWork> you can turn on sms reporting x-f
[14:01] <HixWork> in the UK
[14:02] <x-f> yeah, that's what i mean
[14:02] <kokey> "I need a pointer in the direction of someone who knows how to build a
[14:02] <kokey> regulated power supply for extremely high-powered (36 Volt, 50 Watt)
[14:02] <kokey> surface-mount LEDs.
[14:02] <kokey> "
[14:02] <costyn> kokey: whooo... fun :)
[14:03] <costyn> kokey: Google wasn't any help?
[14:03] <costyn> kokey: i have a 10W and 30W lying here which recently arrived, haven't had a chance to see how to power them
[14:04] <costyn> kokey: http://www.eetimes.com/design/power-management-design/4012512/Design-a-low-cost-high-performance-LED-driver?pageNumber=0
[14:04] <costyn> kokey: guy at my hackerspace is gonna make this
[14:05] <cuddykid> odd.. now my pi refuses to connect via ethernet
[14:05] <costyn> kokey: but this is dimmable with PWM, there are easier circuits
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[14:10] <PE2G> I lost the O3 sonde at ~1100 m: http://postimg.org/image/ltydqrjj3/
[14:11] <GW8RAK> The pagers at home are a real killer for weather satellite listening
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[14:18] <fsphil> pagers in general are annoying
[14:18] <fsphil> as is tetra
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[14:26] <HixWork> Can tetra be listened in on?
[14:26] <fsphil> don't believe so
[14:27] <fsphil> it's encrypted, though how strong that is I don't know
[14:27] <HixWork> thought not, shame I live right next to the Met's Helicopter base, some of the downlink info would be interesting
[14:29] <gonzo_> the police/fire/rescue ones have pretty good encryption apparentkly
[14:29] <gonzo_> you can still do traffic analysis though
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[14:52] <cuddykid_> hm, tried everything I can think of to get the pi connecting back via ethernet (no ethernet lights on) - switched over router, switched cat cables, switched power supply.. still nothing
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[14:56] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, does ifconfig return anything at all?
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[15:01] <cuddykid> chrisstubbs: don't have monitor + usb keyboard unfortunately so only way in is via ssh
[15:01] <chrisstubbs> Ah :/
[15:03] <chrisstubbs> to see the kernel output you can connect a ttl>usb module to the gnd and txd on the pi
[15:03] <costyn> cuddykid: I've had that happen... the RPi basically crashed and still crashes a lot with only the power button still on
[15:03] <costyn> I mean power light
[15:03] <cuddykid> yeah, only power light is red
[15:04] <chrisstubbs> dont know if that could throw out any error messages, and i think you can login and execute commands using the serial port too
[15:04] <cuddykid> it was working only a few hours ago
[15:04] <cuddykid> very odd
[15:04] <chrisstubbs> oh its only your power light on? no OK light either?
[15:04] <chrisstubbs> could be magles SD card syndrome
[15:04] <chrisstubbs> *mangled
[15:04] <cuddykid> yep, think I might reflash the SD
[15:05] <costyn> chrisstubbs: mine will boot fine but then crash after a while, especially if it's in an enclosure
[15:05] <cuddykid> no OK light on - that just blinks on startup now
[15:05] <chrisstubbs> sometimes i have to reseat the sd card in mine if it pops out a little
[15:05] <chrisstubbs> costyn, overheating?
[15:05] <costyn> chrisstubbs: seems like it
[15:05] <Steffanx> costyn doest it crash or does ethernet stop working?
[15:06] <chrisstubbs> i stuck a little heatsink on mine and got a fan to put on the case, but didnt bother with the fan and case in the end
[15:06] <costyn> Steffanx: crashes, but in effect ethernet lights go out and only power light is on
[15:06] <costyn> chrisstubbs: yea think I'll get a heatsink
[15:06] <Steffanx> ( i have some issues with ethernet that stop working after a 'high' load/high amount of data )
[15:06] <Steffanx> costyn, i could send you a few..
[15:06] <Steffanx> The fist perfectly
[15:06] <Steffanx> *fit
[15:06] <chrisstubbs> lol
[15:07] <costyn> Steffanx: well I'm in NL, not sure what postage would be... I can pay for that of course
[15:07] <costyn> Steffanx: thanks for the offer in any case
[15:07] <Steffanx> http://www.berliancom.com/shop/pccooler-rhs-02-b17-aluminium-ramsink-8pcspack/ <= those
[15:08] <costyn> Steffanx: still, might have a look around at our hackerspace, we have a lot of old hardware lying around
[15:08] <chrisstubbs> i had a heatsink for a pololu stepper driver on mine
[15:09] <Steffanx> I don't care about postage, but ok. costyn :)
[15:10] <griffonbot> @BalloonAdvice: Predict this weather balloon flight path to win a space flight ticket: http://t.co/racBhf2RwT #ukhas #balloon [http://twitter.com/BalloonAdvice/status/324902815124316161]
[15:10] <costyn> Steffanx: let me see if we might already have them, if not I'll let you know :)
[15:11] <costyn> wtf that tweet
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[15:11] <x-f> it's Dan
[15:14] <cuddykid> resorted to re-installing wheezy on sd
[15:14] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, worth a go!
[15:14] <cuddykid> yeah, got a local copy of the script I was working on anyway - so nothing lost really
[15:15] <chrisstubbs> i had an SD card that just seemed to internally short itself after a few days use in the Pi. Came up as like a 16mb drive and git very very hot
[15:15] <chrisstubbs> ah goood :)
[15:15] <cuddykid> it was behaving odd last night actually - had a ridiculous amount of python and fswebcam processes running (testing :P) but wouldn't exit them when running sudo killall ____
[15:24] <cuddykid> damn, hasn't fixed the problem
[15:24] <cuddykid> oh no.. I speak to soon
[15:24] <cuddykid> the ok light is now being a little more active
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[15:26] <cuddykid> bingo, ethernet leds are back on
[15:27] <cuddykid> corrupted SD then
[15:27] <chrisstubbs> bloody pi
[15:27] <chrisstubbs> are you using one of their "reccomended" sd's?
[15:27] <cuddykid> I always though it was a bit odd, the only way to turn it off is to yank out the power
[15:27] <cuddykid> it could well be in the middle of a read/write process
[15:28] <cuddykid> probably not - just using any old SD I could find
[15:28] <cuddykid> it's actually a microSD with SD adapter :P
[15:28] <chrisstubbs> i didnt think the SD would make much difference, but mine has been a lot more stable since i switched to a brand/model they reccomended
[15:28] <mfa298> you can do a "sudo poweroff" or sudo "shutdown -h now" to turn it off cleanly
[15:28] <cuddykid> well, the last command I got to enter was sudo reboot
[15:29] <NickSF> cuddykid I find that using a microSD adapter can make it appear to run slower (not sure if its just my eyes or not) - I know putting a class10 micro SD into an adapter doesnt give you the class10 speed
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[15:29] <NickSF> speed for read/write*
[15:30] <cuddykid> ah ok, this is only temp though, should have an 8GB SD on the way if it ever arrives.. ordered it weeks ago
[15:30] <mfa298> even with SD cards some which say they're class 10 don't seem to be that fast.
[15:32] <NickSF> mfa298: granted, but i out a 32GB c10 microSD (via SD adapter) in DLSR and it wouldnt manage HD video until the c10 SD card arrived
[15:32] <NickSF> Put* fat fingers :(
[15:33] <Willdude123> Afternoon.
[15:35] <Willdude123> This looks interesting space.lklm .com
[15:35] <Willdude123> *space.klm.com
[15:37] <Brace> alias 'sudo shutdown -h now' to something like 'off'
[15:37] <Brace> save you a lot of typing
[15:38] <Brace> alias off='shutdown -h now'
[15:38] <Brace> in your .bashrc
[15:39] <chrisstubbs> blimey that explosion in texas was unbelievable
[15:39] <SpeedEvil> not really
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[15:40] <SpeedEvil> fertiliser plant and ship and similar explowitns happen throughout recent history
[15:40] <chrisstubbs> much bigger bang than i expected
[15:40] <chrisstubbs> in the bbc video at least
[15:40] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_Explosion
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[15:42] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEPCON_disaster
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_nitrate_disasters
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> ah, that was the page I was looking for
[15:43] <Willdude123> Could the predictor code actually be used for http://space.klm.com ?
[15:44] <chrisstubbs> if you knew all the variables i guess so
[15:45] <Willdude123> Ah, they haven't announced balloon size, payload weight or anything.
[15:46] <chrisstubbs> I liked their animation thing
[15:49] <costyn> Brace: or you can just use 'poweroff'
[15:49] <costyn> Brace: which already does that
[15:49] <costyn> chrisstubbs: animation is quite slick yea
[15:50] <Willdude123> I'm going for 44.3km
[15:51] <Willdude123> chrisstubbs: What size would you say that balloon is?
[15:51] <Brace> costyn: off is 5 characters less
[15:51] <costyn> Willdude123: 44km will not happen
[15:51] <Brace> actually on some servers I have it set to 'of'
[15:52] <craag> I don't think the animation will bear any resemblance to the size of the balloon.
[15:52] <chrisstubbs> wait for them to come on here and ask for advice, then find out :P
[15:52] <Brace> I try to set aliases for common stuff so they're *really* short
[15:52] <Willdude123> I need an educated guess.
[15:52] <Willdude123> HMm.
[15:53] <mfa298> Brace: I'm not sure quite why you'd need to save 5/6 characters for a command on a server you hardly ever need to run.
[15:53] <Willdude123> What did ava burst at?
[15:53] <fsphil> just under 40km
[15:53] <Brace> mfa298: have you ever had to do server management via your phone?
[15:54] <Brace> admittedly, 'off' is something I mainly use a lot at home, not at work
[15:54] <Willdude123> So wait, this must be expected to burst quite low.
[15:55] <Brace> it's just a personal thing
[15:55] <mfa298> Brace: not usually, as I've yet to find a phone that can run the VMWare vi-client. Also poweroff is one of the commands I hardly ever run on a server (ps, vmstat, iostat, etc are much more common)
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[15:55] <craag> Willdude123: Odds are it'll be a lot heavier than usual.
[15:56] <costyn> Willdude123: yep, camera's on board
[15:56] <mfa298> for the occasional times I do need to turn a server off, I want to know I can turn it back on!
[15:56] <costyn> Willdude123: anywhere between 32 and 35 would be my guess
[15:58] <Willdude123> Just looking at different arduinos.
[16:00] <Willdude123> Arduino Micro looks pretty cool.
[16:02] <Willdude123> Wonder if it'd be useful in a hab flight.
[16:04] <costyn> Willdude123: I wouldn't recommend the micro. the pins have been labelled in a frankly stupid manner, making it difficult to figure out which label goes with which pin
[16:05] <costyn> Willdude123: i have one which I'm using for a (non-HAB) project, I'm often frustrated by it
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[16:06] <costyn> Willdude123: but any arduino will do frankly, I'd recommend getting one with a USB interface in any case, making programming easier than a pro mini for example
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[16:35] Nick change: Morseman_ -> Morseman
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[16:42] <Willdude123> Is there a way to make the Ublox 6 publish only certain sentences?
[16:44] <Upu> indeed :)
[16:45] <Upu> http://pastebin.com/qFB8Vd3w
[16:45] <Willdude123> http://pastebin.com/qFB8Vd3w
[16:45] <Willdude123> Sorry.
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[16:46] <Willdude123> Thanks.
[16:46] <Willdude123> Does that filter out everything except GPGLL?
[16:46] <Willdude123> *GPGGA
[16:46] <Upu> remove the GGA line
[16:47] <Willdude123> Oh so that removes all of them, and I should just remove lines as needed?
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[16:50] <Upu> yep
[16:51] <Willdude123> Would there be much benefit to disabling all strings and polling the GPS as needed?
[16:52] <eroomde> yes
[16:52] <eroomde> take a look at the ubx protocol
[16:52] <eroomde> it's a much nicer way of going about things
[16:53] <Willdude123> ubx protocol?
[16:53] <Upu> its another way to talk to the module
[16:54] <eroomde> http://www.u-blox.com/images/downloads/Product_Docs/u-blox6_ReceiverDescriptionProtocolSpec_%28GPS.G6-SW-10018%29.pdf
[16:54] <eroomde> there is joy and enlightenment to be had within that pdf ^
[16:54] <eroomde> or failing that, the ubx protocol specification
[16:54] <Upu> personally I'd work with NMEA initially
[16:54] <Upu> get a feel for it
[16:54] <Willdude123> I agree.
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[16:55] <eroomde> the way it works is, NMEA is a standard invented in about the age of the old testament and handed down from generation to generation so that you can plug your shiny ublox-6 based thing into your crusty old fishing boat chart computer and still have them be able to talk to each other
[16:55] <costyn> eroomde: lol!
[16:55] <eroomde> but there are much nicer ways of doing things that don't involve lots of string-conversion boobytraps, like ubx
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[16:57] <eroomde> and ubx is the proprietary format that ublox give you to talk to your gps unit properly (if you can program the thing talking to it, why not use it? it's actually easier. It just has to support the old nmea standard so you can plug it directly into some other black box and have it work)
[16:58] <Willdude123> How come the tutorial on the website only covers NMEA?
[16:58] <Willdude123> So should I start with NMEA?
[16:58] <eroomde> donlt look at me, I didn't write it
[16:58] <SpeedEvil> nmea is simple
[16:58] <Upu> because its readable in plain text
[16:58] <SpeedEvil> and can be done in almost any language.
[16:59] <Upu> UBX is a binary protocol
[16:59] <SpeedEvil> you can read the raw output by hand
[16:59] <SpeedEvil> which helps lots for debugging
[16:59] <costyn> eroomde: unbelievable amount of documentation. I had no idea there was that much to these gps chips
[16:59] <Upu> I agree with everything Ed says
[16:59] <Willdude123> So the UBX protocol, what does it do differently?
[16:59] <eroomde> costyn: there's a lot there if you want it
[16:59] <Upu> but I'd work with NMEA initially but entirely up to you
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[17:00] <griffonbot> Received email: PeteA "[UKHAS] Notification of Launch on Sat/Sun 20th/21st"
[17:00] <eroomde> i disagree that it's 'simple'
[17:00] <eroomde> having to do type conversions is definitely more complicated than not having to
[17:00] <Upu> simple as human readable
[17:01] <Upu> but that
[17:01] <eroomde> you might mean 'easy' rather than 'simple'
[17:01] <Upu> as a comparison
[17:01] <Upu> uint8_t setNMEAoff[] = {
[17:01] <Upu> 0xB5, 0x62, 0x06, 0x00, 0x14, 0x00, 0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0xD0, 0x08, 0x00, 0x00, 0x80, 0x25, 0x00, 0x00, 0x07, 0x00, 0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0xA0, 0xA9 };
[17:01] <Upu> sendUBX(setNMEAoff, sizeof(setNMEAoff)/sizeof(uint8_t));
[17:01] <Upu> turns all those sentences off via UBX
[17:01] <Upu> in one line
[17:01] <Laurenceb> on avr that will be loaded to ram
[17:01] <Upu> so here is some advice
[17:01] <Laurenceb> you need PROGMEM
[17:01] <Upu> go get u-center
[17:02] <Willdude123> Okay, how do I connect my module to my PC, do I do it via my arduino?
[17:02] <Upu> put some "null code" on the Arduino
[17:02] <Upu> i.e void setup ();
[17:02] <Upu> void loop ();
[17:03] <Upu> sorry
[17:03] <Upu> void setup() {}
[17:03] <Upu> void loop() {}
[17:03] <Upu> then connect the GPS to pins 0 / 1
[17:03] <Upu> and you should be able to point u-center at the Arduinos com port
[17:04] <Willdude123> Okay, I'll go and do that.
[17:04] <Willdude123> What does u center do?
[17:04] <Morseman> Is this documented somewhere please Upu? I'm guessing I'll need to remember this when I get my Arduino back out of the cupboard...
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[17:06] <Willdude123> and do that.
[17:06] <Willdude123> 13:01 < Willdude123> What does u center do?
[17:06] <Willdude123> and do that.
[17:06] <Willdude123> 13:01 < Willdude123> What does u center do?
[17:06] <Willdude123> 13:01 < Morseman> Is this documented somewhere please Upu? I'm guessing I'll need to remember this when I get my Arduino back out of the
[17:06] <Willdude123> cupboard...
[17:08] <eroomde> Morseman: I think all upu is saying is that you are just making the arduino be a zombie so you can talk to the gps directly through the usb/serial connection on the arduino
[17:08] <Upu> yeah 1 sec
[17:09] <eroomde> as if the arduino chip itself wasn't even there
[17:09] <Upu> you're just basically utilising the FTDI to make a serial to USB connection
[17:09] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/BO-M6ALC%20Instructions.pdf
[17:09] <eroomde> as far as your pc is concerned, when you plug the arduino into it, it just looks like another serial port
[17:09] <eroomde> and you can then open uCenter on your pc and tell it that the gps is on that specific serial port
[17:10] <Upu> u-center is ublox diagnostic software you can use it to change stuff and see what the underlying command is
[17:17] <Willdude123> Right.
[17:17] <Willdude123> Err.
[17:18] <Willdude123> I have Pin 4 connected to RX on my Ublox, and Pin 5 connected to TX on my ublox, which way do I put them into the hardware serial ports?
[17:18] <Upu> RX on the GPS to TX on the Arduino
[17:18] <Upu> and vice versa
[17:19] <Willdude123> In my code, I do SoftwareSerial GPS(4,5);
[17:20] <Willdude123> So does that mean pin 4 connects to RX on my Ublox and pin 5 connects to TX on my ublox?
[17:20] <Willdude123> That's how I have it set up and it works.
[17:21] <Maxell> Does the HABamp block GMS signals? (I need to calibrate my dvb-t dongle)
[17:21] <Willdude123> I'm confused, the Software Serial apparently needs it the other way around.
[17:21] <Willdude123> But it works.
[17:22] <eroomde> Maxell: quite likely!
[17:22] <eroomde> oh i read that as gps
[17:22] <eroomde> not gms
[17:22] <eroomde> no idea what gms is sorry
[17:22] <eroomde> ignore me
[17:23] <Willdude123> Ugh.
[17:24] <Steffanx> He probably meant GSM?
[17:27] <Maxell> yeah, a bit retard
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[17:28] <Willdude123> U-center isn't installing.... :(
[17:28] <Maxell> I use kalibrate to calculate the PPM offset and it uses GSM850 baseband freqs. I think the HABamp is filtering them :P
[17:30] <mfa298> assuming GSM850 is at 850MHz the habamp will be blocking it.
[17:32] <Willdude123> How do I use U center?
[17:34] <Willdude123> Upu?
[17:35] <Upu> have you got it installed ?
[17:36] <Willdude123> Yeah.
[17:37] <Willdude123> I've got it on COM3.
[17:37] <Willdude123> But should I make it record?
[17:37] <Upu> ok so it should have some green bars on the right
[17:37] <Upu> and be giving a position ?
[17:37] <Willdude123> Nope.
[17:38] <Upu> blue bars ?
[17:38] <Upu> screen shot
[17:38] <Willdude123> Just says Fix Mode: No Fix.
[17:38] <Willdude123> One sec.
[17:39] <Willdude123> http://imageupload.co.uk/viewer.php?file=r2b9bp6zqotc75hwpmol.png
[17:40] <Upu> not connected possibly
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[17:40] <Upu> click view -> text console
[17:40] <Upu> are you getting the expected stream of NMEA ?
[17:40] <Willdude123> Nope.
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[17:40] <Upu> power cycle it you may have the module in 4800 baud
[17:41] <Willdude123> I may have got the TX and RX the wrong way around.
[17:41] <Willdude123> Power Cycle?
[17:41] <Upu> turn it off
[17:41] <Upu> and back on
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[17:41] <griffonbot> @BalloonAdvice: The 'natural shape' of modern plastic balloons changes as diff pressure rises - teardrop, squat teardrop, then elastica. #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/BalloonAdvice/status/324940773114146817]
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[17:41] <Upu> what ?
[17:41] <Upu> is this Hillcox ?
[17:42] <jonsowman> no
[17:42] <jonsowman> Dan-K2VOL
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[17:42] <Upu> really ?
[17:42] <jonsowman> yep
[17:42] <Dan-K2VOL> hola
[17:42] <Willdude123> Nothing still Upu.
[17:42] <jonsowman> o/
[17:42] Action: Upu shuts up
[17:42] <Upu> hi Dan :)
[17:43] <Upu> swap RX and TX round will
[17:44] <Willdude123> Working, geen bar present.
[17:44] <Willdude123> Fix mode 2D/DGPS.
[17:44] <Upu> there you go
[17:44] <Upu> ok
[17:44] <Willdude123> That's it.
[17:44] <Upu> click view -> messages
[17:44] <Willdude123> I'm waiting for a lock, right?
[17:44] <Upu> Messages View
[17:45] <Willdude123> Nothing in there.
[17:45] <Upu> don't worry about that
[17:46] <Upu> ok so in here are all the many things you can poke and prod in the ublox
[17:46] <Willdude123> So I'll just wait and if I have to wait>5 minutes for a lock, I'll just assume it's broken.
[17:46] <Upu> well can be no signal
[17:46] <Willdude123> Oh messages view, alright.
[17:47] <Maxell> mfa298: thanks. I'll remove the habamp the next time up at the dvb-t dongle and do the offset calculations and put the habamp back :P
[17:47] <fsphil> habamp is great until you want to receive something just outside 70cm :)
[17:47] <Willdude123> Upu: It's taking a strangely long amount of time.
[17:48] <Willdude123> I used to get a lock quite quickly.
[17:49] <fsphil> gps can be like that indoors
[17:49] <Willdude123> It's next to a window.
[17:49] <Upu> if you have a 2D lock its working Will
[17:49] <Upu> anyway
[17:49] <Upu> give me a sec just working out which commands it is to turn the NMEA messages off been a while
[17:50] <arko> eroomde:
[17:50] <fsphil> yikes, sun's out
[17:50] <fsphil> and gone again
[17:51] <fsphil> shortest summer ever
[17:51] <arko> We call that a day
[17:51] <arko> :P
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[17:51] <fsphil> your days last 15 seconds? :)
[17:51] <eroomde> arko: what happened?
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[17:51] <arko> Lol
[17:51] <Upu> Willdude123 will come back to you later on sorry just a little busy atm
[17:51] <arko> I read http://www.holmea.demon.co.uk/GPS/Main.htm
[17:51] <Willdude123> Okay.
[17:51] <arko> Over breakfast
[17:51] <Willdude123> 10 minutes and still no lock.
[17:52] <arko> Im want to build one now
[17:52] <arko> This dude is freakin brilliant
[17:52] <fsphil> make sure there's no wires near the gps antenna
[17:52] <arko> But jtag?
[17:52] <arko> I want to fix that part
[17:52] <eroomde> yes
[17:52] <eroomde> but we can forgive him
[17:52] <eroomde> he is a clever banana though
[17:52] <fsphil> yea jtag isn't great as an actual in production interface
[17:52] <arko> Yes
[17:52] <arko> Absolutely
[17:53] <fsphil> but I bet it's a nice handy cheat
[17:53] <arko> Reading this was like a sports fan watching a sports game
[17:53] <fsphil> oooh new Daft Punk album
[17:54] <arko> He does a good job describing
[17:54] <Babs> I know it's en vogue to make stuff from off the shelf stuff and hack them together but that guy is brilliant
[17:55] <arko> Ive gotta do a gps project now
[17:55] <arko> fsphil cant wait
[17:55] <Babs> I hope he's mining his own metals in a small open cast mine at the bottom of his garden
[17:55] <fsphil> I've gotta do an ultra wideband project
[17:55] <Willdude123> http://www.holmea.demon.co.uk/GPS/Main.htm
[17:55] <arko> 2.5sec cold start blew my mind
[17:55] <Willdude123> Oops.
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[17:57] <Willdude123> 15 minutes and still no lock.
[17:57] <fsphil> antenna free from obscructions?
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[17:57] <arko> Screened twisted pair
[17:57] <arko> Brilliant, i probably would have never thought to do that
[17:57] <arko> Then cursed as to why there was noise
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[18:00] <Willdude123> The baudrate of a ublox 6 is 9600 baud, right?
[18:00] <arko> I need to read more about gps before i go about designing
[18:00] <Willdude123> Because I am not getting a fix.
[18:00] <arko> Looks like too much fun to not behaving
[18:01] <arko> Default is 9600i believe
[18:01] <arko> Can you talk to the chip?
[18:01] <fsphil> the baud rate has nothing to do with the lock. if you're receiving valid text from it, the baud rate is fine
[18:01] <Willdude123> I don't think I am.
[18:01] <fsphil> the module will send text even without a lock
[18:02] <Willdude123> Fucking Hell.
[18:02] <arko> Are you getting anything?
[18:02] <arko> Thats the spirit
[18:02] <Willdude123> Nope.
[18:03] <Willdude123> Not at all, even if I reverse rx and tx, nothing.
[18:03] <Willdude123> Upu told me to put null code onto the arduino, and I'm using that.
[18:03] <arko> Hmm
[18:04] <Willdude123> Fuck this.
[18:04] <x-f> ..
[18:06] <arko> Chillll
[18:06] <arko> Step away for a bit, and come back to it with a fresh head
[18:06] <arko> :)
[18:06] <Willdude123> Do I need to set it to NMEA or something?
[18:07] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, have you connected power and gnd to the ublox breakout correctly?
[18:08] <Willdude123> Yeha, it was working before I started this. I'll take the NTX 2 out and start with some new jumper wires though.
[18:08] <chrisstubbs> yeah stripping back often helps eliminate the confusion
[18:10] <Babs> Have you got clouds above you Willdude123 ? I spent a whole evening one night trying to get a lock and then the skies cleared and bam. GPS should penetrate through them but it was the only thing that I could put it down to
[18:12] <chrisstubbs> Babs, think he is having serial/wiring troubles not lock troubles
[18:14] <Babs> Ahh ok - I'll ask a question - the live tracker in spacenear - does that happen automatically as soon as the balloon starts descending or is something else needed to activate it?
[18:14] <chrisstubbs> the live predictor?
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[18:15] <x-f> you ask nicely, give all the information, and somebody sets it up
[18:15] <chrisstubbs> an admin needs to set it up with your parameters beforehand
[18:15] <fsphil> it also runs during the ascent
[18:17] <Babs> Christubbs - yes - is there a standard form for it or is it a case of posting launch time, ascent rate burst altitude etc on one of the channels?
[18:18] <chrisstubbs> have you posted on the mailing list (google groups)?
[18:20] <Babs> Not yet, launch not until 25/26 May so was waiting until nearer the time - on a train at the mo so going through all my launch checklists as I have no scalpel or polystyrene with me ;-)
[18:21] <chrisstubbs> aha fair enough. yeah post on there and yet people know on here
[18:21] <cuddykid> lab rig - http://pic.twitter.com/GqZ12rnVnj
[18:21] <Babs> Scalpel + Polystyrene = Babs Life
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[18:21] <chrisstubbs> oooo pvc pipe
[18:22] <cuddykid> yeah from wicks :)
[18:22] <cuddykid> going to be lines down from that to payload box - on either end so it doesn't turn around much in flight
[18:23] <chrisstubbs> Nice :)
[18:23] <chrisstubbs> What gadgets are going in this then?
[18:23] <cuddykid> all the 'experiments' + a570 + gopro + possibly an android
[18:23] <cuddykid> and the usual tracking kit
[18:24] <cuddykid> inside the main box it's two layer - bottom layer will be all my kit, then there's a separator for the other stuff to go ontop
[18:24] <chrisstubbs> just spotted the little window
[18:24] <cuddykid> there's 2 of them - on either side :)
[18:25] <cuddykid> should hopefully let quite a bit of light in
[18:25] <chrisstubbs> are the experiments from a school?
[18:25] <Babs> Cuddykid that's awesome
[18:25] <cuddykid> took it outside yesterday and with daylight it lit the inside up
[18:25] <cuddykid> chrisstubbs: there's a couple of schools getting involved
[18:26] <chrisstubbs> sweet :) Aim for my garden a little better this time, you missed last time ;)
[18:26] <cuddykid> haha, yes, I will :D
[18:28] <chrisstubbs> you seem to have done well with sponsors
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[18:29] <cuddykid> I've been surprised how generous some companies are
[18:29] <chrisstubbs> its the small ones that seem to care the most
[18:29] <cuddykid> indeed
[18:30] <chrisstubbs> at least in engineering from my previous projects
[18:31] <cuddykid> I've certainly noticed that
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[18:56] <eroomde> haha!
[18:56] <eroomde> blinking LED
[18:57] <eroomde> my first ever vhdl + jtag dependency hell
[18:57] <eroomde> and i now have dun FPGA stuff
[18:57] Action: eroomde is well chuffed
[18:58] <fsphil> congrats. as long as it isn't a warning LED blinking
[18:58] <eroomde> it's definitely the one i wanted
[18:58] <eroomde> at about 1Hz
[18:59] <eroomde> 50MHz xtal divided by 2^26
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[19:01] <eroomde> I am really absurdly pleased. every first-blinking-led is a special moment on a new platform
[19:01] <eroomde> i'm so pleased i might go home and make some dinner
[19:01] <bertrik> and there was much rejoicing!
[19:03] <eroomde> there was
[19:03] <eroomde> all downhill from here
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[19:04] <eroomde> right home time
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[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:06] <chrisstubbs> nice eroomde :)
[19:06] <chrisstubbs> Just need to get it RTTY'ing ;)
[19:07] <chrisstubbs> Evening Lunar_Lander
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[19:08] <chrisstubbs> not bad thanks man
[19:08] <chrisstubbs> and you?
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> quite OK
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> was a long day but now I know how to work with the EPR machine
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> that is quite good
[19:11] <Willdude123> Remind me, how do I print everything from the Ublox module to serial?
[19:11] <chrisstubbs> epr machine?
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> electron paramagnetic resonance spectrometer
[19:11] <Willdude123> This doesn't work.
[19:11] <Willdude123> http://pastie.org/7648750
[19:11] <fsphil> I thought that said paranormal for a second
[19:11] <chrisstubbs> *googles*
[19:12] <Willdude123> Maybe the GPS IS not ready.
[19:12] <Willdude123> Sorry for the caps.
[19:12] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, hm it should. Is this the code that worked before?
[19:13] <Willdude123> Dunno, accidentally deleted the code that did work.
[19:13] <Willdude123> :|
[19:13] <chrisstubbs> hah you would be surprised how often that seems to happen
[19:14] <Willdude123> It just prints out 1-1-1-1-1-1....
[19:14] <chrisstubbs> did you have no success with connecting the ublox to 0 and 1 then?
[19:14] <chrisstubbs> oh erm do you need serial.write?
[19:14] <chrisstubbs> i may be wrong
[19:14] <Willdude123> I didn't, so I ripped all the jumper wires out and have started again.
[19:15] <chrisstubbs> my bad.. Serial.read: Returns
[19:15] <chrisstubbs> the first byte of incoming serial data available (or -1 if no data is available) - int
[19:15] <chrisstubbs> indicating no data is availible
[19:18] <Willdude123> Should I try swapping tx and rx?
[19:18] <chrisstubbs> yeah go for it
[19:19] <Willdude123> Arduino ide crashes after using the serial monitor.
[19:19] <chrisstubbs> lol mine hangs for a min or so when i open the tools menu
[19:19] <chrisstubbs> think its a fault with the 64bit serial driver if i recall
[19:21] <Willdude123> Fucking thing.
[19:22] <Willdude123> So I have to restart it every time I want to upload new code.
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[19:22] <Willdude123> Fucking hell.
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[19:23] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, you can try using putty for the serial moitor side of things
[19:23] <chrisstubbs> but you still have to exit that when you want to upload code and start it again after
[19:23] Action: bertrik likes putty
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[19:24] <chrisstubbs> bertrik, beats hyperterminal
[19:25] <Upu> Willdude123 stop being potty mouth pls
[19:27] <Willdude123> I'm very sorry guys.
[19:27] <Willdude123> Sorry Upu.
[19:28] <Willdude123> Upu: Using http://pastie.org/7634324 nothing is TXed to the PC at all.
[19:29] <Upu> so is the GPS on pins 4 and 5 ?
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[19:30] <chrisstubbs> you need a GPS.begin(9600);
[19:30] <chrisstubbs> between lines 5 & 6
[19:30] <chrisstubbs> you connect to the gops at 9600 (its defualt speed) then tell it to switch to 4800, then reconnect to it at that speed
[19:31] <Upu> yeah
[19:31] <chrisstubbs> ugh fat fingers, thats just about readable
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[19:31] <Upu> Evening lunar
[19:31] <Upu> what you need to understand Will is pins 0 and 1 are connected to a hardware UART in the AVR chip.
[19:32] <Upu> these are used by the Arduino software to program the chip
[19:32] <Upu> the software serial you're using is a software implementation of this
[19:32] <Willdude123> Almost periodic rubbish is coming through.
[19:32] <Willdude123> Okay.
[19:32] <Upu> So you need to open both at 9600
[19:32] <Upu> issue the command to the GPS to drop the speed
[19:33] <Upu> then reconnect the GPS at 4800
[19:33] <Willdude123> Oh yeah.
[19:33] <Upu> do you have a FTDI board by any chance ?
[19:33] <Willdude123> Nope.
[19:33] <chrisstubbs> good investemnt, i have about 3 now
[19:33] <Willdude123> How much are they?
[19:33] <Upu> buttons
[19:33] <Upu> https://www.sparkfun.com/search/results?term=FTDI&what=products
[19:34] <chrisstubbs> you can get cheap ebay ones for under £2 but the drivers can be a bit nasty, proper FTDI ones are better
[19:34] <Upu> Sorry
[19:34] <Upu> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9716
[19:34] <Upu> this one
[19:34] <Upu> using that
[19:34] <Upu> and some 1k resistors
[19:34] <Upu> you can put the GPS on hardware WHERE IT BELONGS and then put that on 4 & 5 and output debug to it
[19:34] <Willdude123> Okay.
[19:35] <Willdude123> Yay, getting nmea sentences now.
[19:35] <chrisstubbs> http://bit.ly/102uDRD
[19:36] <Upu> just for the moment
[19:36] <Upu> stick with NMEA
[19:36] <Upu> now go add the code to turn off everything apart from the GPGGA sentences
[19:37] <Willdude123> Right.
[19:39] <Upu> then when you have that let me know
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, why the 1 k resistors for the FTDI?
[19:41] <Upu> 1k's are for the GPS RX & TX lines
[19:41] <Willdude123> Nothing coming through.
[19:41] <Upu> so you can keep it connected but still program the Arduino
[19:41] <Upu> ok Willdude123 look at what changed in your code, go back to when it works
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> ah in that configuration
[19:42] <Upu> http://www.billporter.info/how-to-add-multiple-uart-connections/
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> wouldn't it be easier to introduce a soft serial for the PC connection?
[19:42] <Upu> its not an issue you had as you used an mega with 4 UARTS on it
[19:42] <mclane> hi, has someone experience with cc1101 devices? How to do 50 baud rtty / 500 Hz shift?
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:42] <Willdude123> Upu: Where should I put the block of code?
[19:42] <Upu> mclane try mattbrejza
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, well now I tried the chip GPS with an atmega328P :)
[19:43] <Upu> where do you reckon Willdude123 ?
[19:43] <Willdude123> Well, in void setup loop.
[19:44] <Upu> yep try under GPS.Flush
[19:44] <Willdude123> Under the line telling the GPS to switch to 4800 baud.
[19:44] <Willdude123> Oh OK.
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[19:44] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, 328P on breadboard?
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> with a 8 MHz xtal and fuses set appropiately
[19:45] <chrisstubbs> arduino bootloader?
[19:45] <Willdude123> Upu: Still nothing.
[19:45] <Willdude123> Upu: Should I try disabling all of them and polling for GPGGA instead?
[19:45] <Upu> did you paste ALL that code in ? As it disables ALL the NMEA sentences ?
[19:45] <Upu> also
[19:45] <Upu> as you're not removing power to the GPS
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[19:45] <Upu> remember it will keep any settings
[19:46] <Willdude123> No, I didn't.
[19:46] <Upu> so power it off entirely
[19:46] <Upu> try just one line at once
[19:46] <Upu> so go back to where it works
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, it has the bootloader but I program it with the avrispmkII
[19:46] <Upu> and just disable say VTG
[19:47] <mclane> ping mattbrejza
[19:48] <Willdude123> Upu: I have just disabled GLL, but it is sill working.
[19:48] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, nice! Beats programming with another Arduino as ISP :P
[19:48] <Willdude123> *transmitting.
[19:48] <Upu> ok well its not working
[19:48] <Upu> pastebin code
[19:49] <Willdude123> http://pastie.org/7649175
[19:49] <Upu> ok
[19:49] <Upu> school boy error
[19:49] <Upu> which is apt
[19:49] <chrisstubbs> hah
[19:49] <Willdude123> Upu: School boy error
[19:50] <Upu> where are you sending that command ?
[19:50] <Willdude123> Ah I see.
[19:50] <Willdude123> :)
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, :)
[19:53] <cuddykid> definitely a problem with this pi/sd card
[19:53] <cuddykid> once again refusing to connect to ethernet
[19:54] <fsphil> a few of my SD cards refuse to work on the Pi
[19:54] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, i dont understand how they made it so fussy about SD's
[19:54] <chrisstubbs> I expect thats where the problem lies
[19:55] <Upu> working Willdude123 ?
[19:55] <Steffanx> cuddykid i guess you really need a keyboard + tv/screen to see why it fails
[19:57] <cuddykid> I believe it's not even booting up properly
[19:57] <cuddykid> the green light only flashes once (briefly) on start up then doesn't turn on again
[19:57] <cuddykid> it used to though (before shutting the pi down)
[20:01] <mattbrejza> mclane: pong
[20:01] <mclane> Hi matt, do you know how to program the cc1101 for rtty?
[20:01] <mclane> upu pointed me towards you
[20:01] <mattbrejza> when i did my cc1101 rtty i did a ntx2 crystal pulling network with a varactor, but i guess you can also change the carrier freq in the same way as the rfm22b is done
[20:02] <mattbrejza> *ntx2 style
[20:03] <Willdude123> Upu: One sec.
[20:03] <mclane> with the rfm 22b i just change the carrier frequency whereas with the NTX2 I do a kind of analog modulation as far as I understand it
[20:04] <mclane> how did you do with the cc1101?
[20:04] <mattbrejza> you add a few extra passive components onto the crystal circuit
[20:04] <Willdude123> Argh.
[20:04] <Willdude123> I messed something up somewhere.
[20:05] <Willdude123> Now I am struggling to start again.
[20:05] <mclane> ok, so I cannot just reprogram the synthesizer frequency as in the rfm22?
[20:05] <mattbrejza> you can, but i didnt know if that would work as well, so when i made the board i also put the crystal pulling circuit
[20:05] <mattbrejza> but in the end i didnt try changing the carrier
[20:06] <Willdude123> Arrgh. I am getting rubbish into serial again.
[20:06] <mclane> ok, then I will have to digg into the TI docs for the cc1101 to see how to program the synthesizer
[20:06] <mattbrejza> well you have to set it anyway
[20:07] <mclane> yea sure
[20:07] <mattbrejza> the crystal pulling newtork only makes slight changes from what you program it to
[20:07] <Willdude123> Where did I go wrong here? http://pastie.org/7649331
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[20:08] <mattbrejza> mclane: were you going to make your own board or get one of those £6 ones from ebay/dx?
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[20:09] <Upu> remove all power to the GP S and reconnect and try again Will ?
[20:09] <Willdude123> Tried.
[20:09] <Upu> did that code work before ?
[20:09] <mclane> no, I am looking into this: www.panstamp.com
[20:09] <Willdude123> I think so.
[20:09] <Willdude123> If I removed the right bits.
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[20:10] <mattbrejza> ah
[20:10] <Willdude123> Urgh.
[20:11] <Willdude123> Maybe I'll have to start again :(
[20:11] <Upu> get back to where its working
[20:11] <Upu> save it all
[20:11] <Upu> and use that as your reference point
[20:11] <mclane> but I do not want to use their protocol stack, just the HW (which is nice and small)
[20:11] <Willdude123> I don't think I can change anything without preventing it from functioning.
[20:12] <mattbrejza> http://dx.com/p/rf1100-232-cc1101-433mhz-wireless-rf-transceiver-module-156755
[20:12] <mattbrejza> is an alternative that ive seen
[20:12] <mattbrejza> theres an avr on there that you should be able to reprogram
[20:12] <mattbrejza> alternatively http://dx.com/p/cc1101-wireless-module-w-external-antenna-blue-160898
[20:15] <mclane> ah ok, interesting
[20:15] <mclane> thanks matt
[20:15] <mattbrejza> no problem
[20:15] <Willdude123> Upu: Just got it working.
[20:15] <mclane> I will drop out now - gn
[20:15] <mattbrejza> night
[20:16] <chrisstubbs> disconnect and reconnect job will?
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[20:17] <Willdude123> Yay.
[20:17] <Willdude123> $GPGGA,201703.00,5115.35163,N,00110.21977,W,1,03,2.70,65.3,M,46.8,M,,*7D
[20:17] <Willdude123> I know I did just announce my location, but you know, YOLO.
[20:17] <chrisstubbs> please, spare the YOLO
[20:17] <Upu> right so save it as "KNOWN WORKING"
[20:18] <Upu> with caps
[20:18] <Willdude123> K.
[20:18] <Willdude123> Right, so, I'm gonna need some help parsing this .
[20:18] <mattbrejza> now would be a good time to learn to use git or similar, but 1 step at a time...
[20:18] <Upu> yeah trying to keep it simple :)
[20:19] <Willdude123> 5115.35163,N,00110.21977,W
[20:19] <Upu> ok so you've remove all sentences apart from GPGGA ?
[20:19] <Willdude123> That means 51 degrees North, 15.35163 minutes.
[20:19] <Willdude123> Upu yeah.
[20:19] <Upu> super ok
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, btw besides programming the AVR with the ISP, I then used RealTerm to read the serial port instead of the arduino IDE :)
[20:19] <Upu> so notice how the sentence is built up
[20:19] <Upu> it starts with a $
[20:19] <Upu> and ends with *
[20:20] <Upu> (the bit after the * is the check sum)
[20:20] <Willdude123> Okay.
[20:20] <Willdude123> So right, 15.35163 minutes in minutes and seconds is...
[20:20] <Upu> so now put the incoming byte in a char
[20:20] <Upu> and print the char instead
[20:21] <Upu> this is one step at a time as when this works you can put a if char = $ we have a sentence start
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> Willdude123, wolframalpha
[20:22] <Willdude123> invalid conversion from 'int' to 'char*'
[20:22] <Willdude123> Oh.
[20:22] <Willdude123> Got it.
[20:23] <Willdude123> $GPGGA,202257.00,5115.37264,N,00110.24116,W,1,04,2.24,128.5,M,ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ...
[20:23] <Upu> yeah thats ok
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> what do the y mean?
[20:24] <Willdude123> Why does it do that Upu?
[20:25] <nigelvh> It's a null byte, the terminal puts them there because it doesn't have a char to put there.
[20:25] <Upu> what nigelvh says
[20:25] <Upu> you can detect it and not print it
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> something like a CR or a linefeed?
[20:25] <Willdude123> Should I declare it within the if gps avaliable conditional?
[20:25] <nigelvh> Similar, but not, it's a null char
[20:26] <Upu> if char != '\0' ... print .. otherwise don't bother
[20:26] <nigelvh> literally nothing, but the terminal prints the y to show that there are bytes there that it can't print.
[20:26] <Willdude123> Yep that works.
[20:26] <Willdude123> Putting it in the gps.available loop works.
[20:27] <Willdude123> I'm going to try and manually understand what this means now.
[20:28] <eroomde> you are wonderful
[20:30] <Willdude123> Who???
[20:30] <Willdude123> What?
[20:30] <nigelvh> eroomde (and the rest of us) are appreciative of those who are willing to put their own effort into learning.
[20:31] <Willdude123> Ugh.
[20:31] <Willdude123> Thanks.
[20:32] <nigelvh> We are happy to help. We've just had instances of people who just wanted us to provide the code, and that's not really what we're interested in doing.
[20:32] <Willdude123> Woot.
[20:32] <Willdude123> I found myself.
[20:32] <nigelvh> So, asking questions, then going to learn more yourself is prized.
[20:32] <mfa298> if you're struggling to understand it you might find an introduction to C tutorial might help - but there will be some differences to the arduino (as it tries to simplify some things)
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[20:33] <Willdude123> It's about 6 meters off, but it works. :)
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[20:33] <Willdude123> Apparently, Google Earth can parse NMEA.
[20:33] <eroomde> 6 meters is good enough!
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[20:33] <eroomde> does it move around will?
[20:33] <eroomde> despite being still
[20:33] <Willdude123> A little, I think.
[20:33] <eroomde> you might find if you collect say 100 posititions it outputs, and average them , then it'll be about right
[20:34] <eroomde> it's basically because the positions the unit gives out are a guess
[20:34] <eroomde> (a good mathematical guess)
[20:34] <eroomde> but still just a guess
[20:34] <eroomde> the sattelites can get you pretty close but they have sources of error
[20:35] <nigelvh> I have a precision time reference that at startup grabs 2000 position points to average it's own position to get better time accuracy.
[20:35] <eroomde> one of them is a layer in the atmosphere called the ionosphere, where the speed of light (and radio waves) is different to normal air or a vacuum
[20:35] <eroomde> and the ionosphere changes shape and thickness and stuff depending on lots of things like the earths magnetic field and solar activity. and so the effect it has on the signal from the gps sats to the ground chages as its shape changes
[20:36] <Willdude123> Interesting :)
[20:36] <eroomde> and it's difficult to exactly know what its shape is, so the gps sattelites just send down a rough estimate for the receiver to use to compensate
[20:36] <eroomde> but again it's not perfect
[20:36] <bertrik> eroomde: talking about WAAS/EGNOS now?
[20:36] <eroomde> there are a bunch of sources of error like that
[20:36] <Willdude123> I feel so proud of my code I want to tweet to my 6 or so followers about it.
[20:37] <Upu> tweet away Will
[20:37] <eroomde> bertrik: nope just stuff provided in the ephemeris
[20:37] <eroomde> Willdude123: tag it #ukhas and you'll get a lot more people seeing it :)
[20:37] <Upu> lol
[20:38] <Upu> #ukhas doesn't get enough use
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[20:39] <mfa298> if you're lucky you'll get to upset the uk housing awards (or whatever it was the other day using ukhas)
[20:39] <eroomde> we live in hope
[20:39] <eroomde> nice now that the arab spring has died down
[20:39] <eroomde> #arhab was getting hammered
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[20:41] <griffonbot> @willdude567: Upu: We really don't need more use of #ukhas . [http://twitter.com/willdude567/status/324986160545951744]
[20:42] <griffonbot> @willdude567: Griffonbot spam FTW! #ukhas [http://twitter.com/willdude567/status/324986223661826048]
[20:42] <eroomde> can't say we didn;t ask for that
[20:42] Action: Upu revokes Willdude123 #ukhas privileges
[20:43] <griffonbot> @willdude567: Just started with my Ublox GPS module. #ukhas [http://twitter.com/willdude567/status/324986463022354434]
[20:43] Action: eroomde problem of the day #475:
[20:43] <eroomde> getting a block of parmesan out of the fridge to grate over pasta
[20:43] <eroomde> then eating the reaminder afterwards
[20:43] <Upu> I'm not seeing the problem
[20:43] <Willdude123> eroomde: Is that a regular section of yours?
[20:43] <eroomde> you're not my artery
[20:43] <eroomde> Willdude123: i have many little problems
[20:44] <mattbrejza> looks like youre cycling tomorrow then
[20:44] <eroomde> correct!
[20:44] <eroomde> that's exactly the reason
[20:44] <Willdude123> eroomde: Is rocketman your ringtone, it should be
[20:44] <eroomde> big bowl of chicken and pasta
[20:44] <cuddykid> cycling to the shops to get more parmesan
[20:44] <eroomde> my ringtone is 'bleep bleep' on a matter of principle
[20:44] <Upu> +1
[20:45] <mfa298> I see no issue with cheese being eaten (unless it's cheap tasteless stuff)
[20:45] <chrisstubbs> there is nothing worse than people with annoying ringtones whose phones go off every 5 mins
[20:46] <arko> My text tone is the mario coin sound
[20:47] <chrisstubbs> ah thats not too irritating
[20:47] <arko> Every now and then peopple send me 10+ texts one after another
[20:47] <arko> While i run around gettin coins
[20:47] <nigelvh> I keep my phone on vibrate.
[20:47] <arko> Same here mostly
[20:47] <arko> Class and work
[20:48] <nigelvh> Mine is NEVER on ring.
[20:48] <arko> People get irritated
[20:48] <nigelvh> Class, work, home, doesn't matter.
[20:48] <chrisstubbs> This is the one i have a problem with: http://bit.ly/Z1N7ap
[20:48] <eroomde> mfa298: the thing is it was a brand new pack
[20:48] <eroomde> i opened it and grated like the first 2m of the edge
[20:48] <arko> I hate any tone that is someone talking
[20:48] <eroomde> then after the pasta ate the remaining 15cm of wedge
[20:49] <arko> "Phone call!!!!"
[20:50] <nigelvh> I always thought the ringtone from the Geico commercial would be a good one to annoy people.
[20:50] <mfa298> as long as you have a good drink of something to go with the cheese, although the waist line might not be so pleased with that.
[20:51] <mfa298> a whole block of parmesan might be a bit excessive though.
[20:51] Action: mfa298 is reminded to add parmesan to the shopping list
[20:53] <Upu> eroomde you'll know this can you freeze grated parmesan ?
[20:53] <arko> Without changing the flavor?
[20:53] <Upu> Well we never eat it all
[20:53] <eroomde> Upu: you can eat it too
[20:53] <Upu> lol yes but say we didn't want to eat it :)
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> well you can store it in the fridge OK
[20:54] <eroomde> arko: i got a blinking led
[20:54] <eroomde> on the spartan £
[20:54] <eroomde> 3*
[20:55] <eroomde> I am disproportionaly chuffed
[20:55] <arko> \o/ progress
[20:55] <eroomde> first evar hardware programming
[20:55] <arko> :)
[20:55] <eroomde> the battle was getting the configuration toolchain with the jtag on linux tbh
[20:55] <arko> Haha
[20:56] <chrisstubbs> Oh yes thats what i like to see! http://i.imgur.com/H7BfaCC.png
[20:56] <griffonbot> @Daniel_Richman: http://t.co/1D7HoAhCHP 13/04 launches (incl. @daveake's @Raspberry_Pi) stats: 12k IPs, 13mil reqs+ajax. Load<0.3, eth0<30% throughout #ukhas [http://twitter.com/Daniel_Richman/status/324989764564557824]
[20:56] <griffonbot> @AnthonyStirk: RT @Daniel_Richman: http://t.co/1D7HoAhCHP 13/04 launches (incl. @daveake's @Raspberry_Pi) stats: 12k IPs, 13mil reqs+ajax. Load<0.3, ... [http://twitter.com/AnthonyStirk/status/324989892067213312]
[20:56] <DanielRichman> I wasted an inordinate amount of time fitting that into 1 tweet
[20:56] <Upu> it did complain atme
[20:57] <arko> Chrisstubbs: ??
[20:57] <chrisstubbs> sunsunsunsunsunsunsunsunsunsunsunsun
[20:57] <arko> Oh, thats like everyday here
[20:57] <arko> We get excited for clouds
[20:57] <mfa298> make the most of it, that's summer right there, blink and you might miss it
[20:57] <arko> Not always
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[20:58] <LokisSword> hola!
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[20:58] <mfa298> sounded like there might be rain again later on sunday,
[20:58] <eroomde> arko is noy lying
[20:59] <eroomde> i am quite jealous
[20:59] <eroomde> the biggest concern in my life when i drove back from arko to SF at the beginning of february was how long i could drive with the roof of my mustang down before getting sunburnt
[20:59] <eroomde> at the beginning of february...
[20:59] <Upu> For me it would be about 1min 30secs
[20:59] <Upu> oh
[20:59] <eroomde> it was snowing 2 weeks ago here
[20:59] <Upu> 2 min 10 seconds
[21:00] <arko> eroomde hahaha
[21:01] <mfa298> I do remember camping a few years ago at the end of april and finding half my tent collapsed under the snow (and that was near the south coast)
[21:01] <arko> eroomde: move to pasadena
[21:01] <arko> Easy
[21:01] <arko> No more clouds
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[21:01] <chrisstubbs> Evening Mr Mark
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[21:02] <eroomde> no more space industry work
[21:02] <arko> Jpl?
[21:03] <eroomde> i guess that's easier
[21:03] <S_Mark> Hello
[21:03] <eroomde> to be all foreign
[21:03] <arko> SpaceX
[21:04] <arko> Aww
[21:04] <arko> Forgot about that
[21:04] <arko> Do an O1-visa
[21:04] <arko> Naturalize by shooting deer, eat steak, and drive a truck
[21:05] <arko> Boom citizenship
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:05] <eroomde> hyuk hyuk
[21:05] <chrisstubbs> S_Mark, hows things?
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> hello S_Mark
[21:06] <S_Mark> Hello Lunar_Lander
[21:06] <S_Mark> Yeah good thank you chrisstubbs
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> today was a good day at the lab
[21:06] <S_Mark> night off at pizza express lol
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> made sodium phosphate buffer
[21:06] <S_Mark> ah great
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> and carried around an EPR resonator
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> then was told that it was worth 20000 euro
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> some of this stuff is just expensive because it can be
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> I want to make a teeny MRI machine
[21:08] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, my brain kinda shut down after googling the EPR but the photos i saw looked impressive :P
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> :) yeah
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> the magnets are massive
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> not great, just good enough to detect left or right hand. :-)
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> the power supply makes sounds because something mechanical in them does the current switching
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> maybe 32*32*32
[21:09] <S_Mark> sounds very good
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> MRI is beautiful mathematically
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> in germany there is a special day where kids are able to visit the workplaces of their parents once a year
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> it literally reads out the Fourier spectra of the image slice
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> and when this happens, our group at uni makes some experiments for them
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> one of these is taking like cream, sugar and chocolate in a bowl
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> then stir and add liquid nitrogen
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:12] Action: SpeedEvil wants a source of ln2/lo2
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> lHe would be good too :-)
[21:13] <chrisstubbs> we use ln2 for cooling ccd's at work
[21:13] <chrisstubbs> i did the training course on it but still not actually ever used it :(
[21:14] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: BOC?
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> cheap
[21:15] <eroomde> it's about the cheapest thing they do
[21:15] <eroomde> after CO2
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> well, yes.
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> but getting 10l will not be cheap
[21:16] <mattbrejza> hey, anyone know anything useful about trying to build a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_mill ??
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> yes
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> easy
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> you just shield and then not an electrode
[21:17] <mattbrejza> i was wondering whether you need a connection to gnd or not
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> no
[21:17] <mattbrejza> oh ok
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> I mean yes
[21:17] <mattbrejza> might try flying one then
[21:17] Action: SpeedEvil is not awake
[21:17] <mattbrejza> oh might be a slight issue then
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[21:17] <SpeedEvil> if you don't have a ground, you need a reference voltage
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> say a 20m wire
[21:18] <mattbrejza> hmm
[21:19] <mattbrejza> some sort of charge meter might be easier to start with
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> field mill is easy
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> fan motor
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> coke can cut up
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> opamp to amplify
[21:22] <mattbrejza> but 'gnd' being a 20m long bit of wire dangling below?
[21:22] <mattbrejza> just to drain the charge away?
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[21:23] <SpeedEvil> no, you measure the difference in voltage between the reference, and the field mill
[21:24] <mattbrejza> oh
[21:24] <mattbrejza> yea got it
[21:25] <mattbrejza> so the wire has to be insulated with a metal contact at the bottom?
[21:25] <SpeedEvil> ideally
[21:27] <mattbrejza> and of course the longer the wire the more voltage the mill will pick up, but ideally wanting something light
[21:27] <mattbrejza> so we shall see
[21:27] <mattbrejza> 'voltage will pick up' might not have been the best wording
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[21:28] <mattbrejza> someone decided they wanted to try to detect electric field differences around a thunder storm cloud
[21:28] <mattbrejza> or any cloud for that matter
[21:30] <benoxley> should be fun
[21:32] <mattbrejza> looks like benoxley is cutting up a coke can
[21:32] <benoxley> ouch
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[21:33] <benoxley> cut myself
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[21:38] <mattbrejza> thanks SpeedEvil
[21:38] <benoxley> mattbrejza: good description http://www.nshss.org/docs/academic-papers/McCanna.pdf
[21:45] <craag> That looks like a cool experiment.
[21:46] <mattbrejza> just need someone to make it :P
[21:46] <craag> You'll have to try launching near a thunderstorm of course, for science.
[21:47] <mattbrejza> well the idea was to get it launchable on a 100g balloon or smaller
[21:47] <mattbrejza> but clouds in general should be good too
[21:47] <mattbrejza> ive also seen a charge meter that is probably simpler
[21:47] <craag> mm
[21:51] <craag> Pico charge meter looks like it should be quite easy. Nowhere near as accurate as the field mill obviously.
[21:51] <mattbrejza> wanted to give it a go? :P
[21:54] <craag> As far as I understand it, it's just measuring very small voltage fluctuations on an exposed metal node.
[21:54] <craag> At very high impedance.
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[22:03] <mattbrejza> yea, but would you need to somehow discharge your electrode after some time?
[22:03] <craag> In a ground-less system (such as a hab), I'm not sure how the voltage comparision works..
[22:04] <mattbrejza> well its not really voltage comparision in this case, just a case of electrons being added or removed from our electrode?
[22:04] <mattbrejza> the field mill measures the potential between the mill and the end of a long wire
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[22:22] <mattbrejza> craag: hmm http://www.arm.gov/sites/aaf/workshop2008/posters/nicoll.pdf
[22:22] <mattbrejza> also benoxley
[22:24] <craag> well that's killed my netbook
[22:24] <mattbrejza> yea not much better here
[22:24] <mattbrejza> it scrolls eventially
[22:27] <craag> That circuit's about what I expected.
[22:29] <mattbrejza> more info: A double Gerdien instrument for simultaneous bipolar air conductivity measurements on balloon platforms
[22:30] <mattbrejza> 'This content is outside your institutional subscription' ¬.¬
[22:31] <mattbrejza> found one
[22:32] <mattbrejza> im fairly sure ive found a much more simple charge meter before
[22:34] <mattbrejza> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19191452
[22:34] <mattbrejza> much happier
[22:34] <craag> Well very simply, two spaced electrodes with a carefully calibrated op-amp amplifiying voltage between them?
[22:35] <mattbrejza> this one has just an electrode and opamp with no odd fan mechanism and +-30V
[22:35] <mattbrejza> http://rsi.aip.org/resource/1/rsinak/v80/i1/p014501_s1
[22:36] <mattbrejza> cba to read them however
[22:36] <mattbrejza> (at this time)
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[22:45] <craag> Well you're always going to be measuring a pd? It could be between your electrode and circuit board, but it's still a pd due to an electric field. So why not have one vertical electrode on a flat plane, then a bunch of vertical electrodes arranged around it and use the relative PDs to the central electrode to calculate the magnitude and direction of the electric field?
[22:45] <craag> Do let me know if that's not right, I have just come back from the pub.
[22:47] <mattbrejza> under 'theory of operation' describes why you cant just measure E field with a couple of electrodes
[22:47] <mattbrejza> http://www.precisionstrobe.com/jc/fieldmill/fieldmill.html
[22:47] <mattbrejza> link is always useful
[22:48] <craag> Ah I see..
[22:49] <mattbrejza> the above stuff i posted was to measure charge collected on electrodes, which is slightly differnt to measuring E field
[22:50] <craag> Gotcha, I was mixing the two and it all sounded so easy! oops.
[22:50] <mattbrejza> the last charge link i posted seems easy enough (TN)
[22:50] <mattbrejza> (TM)
[22:52] <mattbrejza> http://i.imgur.com/JAPuMgC.png
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[22:53] <craag> Yep, got it now the vpn is working.
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[22:55] <mattbrejza> its interesting how they connect their sensors to the vaisala sondes and use them to send data back
[23:01] <mattbrejza> bed, laters
[23:01] <craag> cya
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[00:00] --- Fri Apr 19 2013