highaltitude.log.20130415

[00:08] <gonzo_> there were 210 yesterday
[00:08] <Darkside> arko: 230 or something
[00:12] <arko> nice!
[00:12] <arko> :)
[00:18] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/mpvuLLC.png
[00:19] <arko> data from our hab so far
[00:34] <Wolfy-K4GHL> interesting...
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[01:43] <nigelvh> I like the data you've got there arko. Particularly the magnetometer. It's EXACTLY what I would have expected.
[01:50] <arko> why so much noise?
[01:52] <nigelvh> The magnetic field of the earth is (obviously) oriented in a given direction. Your payload rotates, so you're seeing the measured strength vary based on the angle of the axis of the sensor versus the axis of the magnetic field.
[01:52] <nigelvh> So if you measure at a fast enough rate, you've got a payload compass.
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[03:48] <Wolfy-K4GHL> well it certainly has been an interesting weekend... Yall have a great evening (whats left of it if any) .. I am off to bed :) Thanks for the education this weekend :)
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[04:58] <arko> jonsowman: cambridge seems like a silly place http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTPtTgMzMY0
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[05:14] <griffonbot> @mak_fin: RT @AnthonyStirk: AVA recovered in Austria check this out : http://t.co/dLJHEmaZf3 thanks to OM2AMR and friends for recovery #ukhas @Ras ... [http://twitter.com/mak_fin/status/323665560204369921]
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[06:05] <x-f> counting the numbers :)
[06:05] <x-f> good monday
[06:05] Action: arko dances
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[06:29] <fsphil> arko: there was about 260 users at one point
[06:31] <arko> wow
[06:31] <arko> thats awesome
[06:31] <arko> doubled the people in the room
[06:33] <x-f> only one balloon from last weekends launch-o-geddon was recovered
[06:33] <eroomde> it was called launch-o-geddon
[06:33] <x-f> the one who wasn't meant to be recovered at all
[06:33] <eroomde> not launch-o-happy-bunnies-and-ponies-and-unicorns
[06:33] #highaltitude: mode change '-o eroomde' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[06:33] <UpuWork> neither were meant to be recovered
[06:33] <eroomde> safe to take off my hat now
[06:34] <UpuWork> however never count on a Slovak
[06:34] <x-f> PYSY was
[06:34] <UpuWork> oh yes that was
[06:34] <x-f> i don't know about uXABEN
[06:34] <arko> i didn't even launch one this week and i got one :P
[06:34] <UpuWork> no that was intended to land in netherlands
[06:34] <UpuWork> no intention to recover unless someone wanted to go get it
[06:34] <arko> kerbal space program needs habs
[06:35] <x-f> arko, congratulations :)
[06:35] <arko> bah, thanks
[06:35] <arko> :P
[06:35] <eroomde> but you can do it fo real!
[06:36] <arko> eroomde hah yeah
[06:36] <arko> but it would be fun to import noaa data
[06:36] <arko> and watch it actually fly
[06:36] <eroomde> indeed
[06:36] <arko> mod so you can solder the boards :P
[06:36] <arko> haha
[06:36] <arko> so stupid
[06:36] <arko> i would still play it <_<
[06:36] <eroomde> we could just do js annimations in the predictor
[06:37] <arko> heh, and i finally get around to the launch
[06:37] <arko> video upload
[06:37] <eroomde> real time predictor
[06:37] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhUAiXzdfJk&feature=youtu.be
[06:37] <eroomde> impressed you announced the time
[06:37] <arko> DUDE
[06:37] <arko> so freakin helpful!
[06:37] <eroomde> i always forget
[06:37] <arko> no one wrote it down!!!
[06:38] <arko> so i kept going to this video
[06:38] <arko> haha
[06:38] <arko> i almost gave Gale Crater time too
[06:38] <arko> :P
[06:40] <Darkside> what a huge payload
[06:40] <Darkside> lol
[06:40] Action: eroomde mumbles
[06:40] <arko> Darkside: Upu's picture still stands
[06:40] <Darkside> :P
[06:40] <Darkside> yup
[06:40] <arko> the thing was so damn well insulated too
[06:40] <x-f> arko, did you figure out what caused the premature burst? was it really because of untrimmed zip ties?
[06:40] <arko> got to like a cozy -5c
[06:41] <arko> x-f: there was no evidence of a puncture
[06:41] <arko> it was punctured later during transport back home
[06:41] <UpuWork> which picutre ?
[06:41] <arko> MURICA
[06:41] <arko> :P
[06:41] <UpuWork> haha
[06:41] <arko> im using that in my presentation at Layerone if that is ok
[06:41] <arko> with credits of course
[06:42] <UpuWork> lol
[06:42] <UpuWork> be my guest
[06:42] <arko> :) cool
[06:42] <eroomde> an email address to which to send hate mail
[06:42] <UpuWork> yeah
[06:42] <UpuWork> lol
[06:42] <arko> eroomde: ?
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[06:46] <eroomde> http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3twyzk/
[06:46] <arko> hahaha
[06:50] <UpuWork> lol
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[06:52] <jonsowman> arko: haha yeah, seen him a few times!
[06:52] <jonsowman> my main conclusion was the bins aren't acoustically optimal for guitars
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[06:53] <eroomde> wrong channel jonsowman?
[06:53] <arko> ohh
[06:53] <arko> took me a minute
[06:53] <arko> that dude in the trash can
[06:53] <eroomde> ?
[06:53] <jonsowman> no eroomde
[06:53] <jonsowman> 05:58:44 arko> jonsowman: cambridge seems like a silly place http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTPtTgMzMY0
[06:53] <eroomde> oh god that was like a hour ago
[06:53] <arko> haha
[06:53] <jonsowman> lol
[06:54] <jonsowman> this is early for me
[06:54] <jonsowman> revision time
[06:55] <number10> when is first exam jonsowman
[06:55] <jonsowman> week today
[06:55] <jonsowman> :o
[06:57] <eroomde> YAY
[06:57] <jonsowman> my thoughts precisely
[06:57] <number10> not long then - you must have finished revion and just be calming down ready for exam ;)
[06:57] <number10> revision
[06:57] <jonsowman> hahah
[06:57] <jonsowman> a likely story
[06:58] <number10> you'll be fine
[06:58] <jonsowman> hope so :|
[06:58] <number10> it does seem a short year
[06:58] <jonsowman> going to be a fun week of revision
[06:59] <jonsowman> it has gone really quick
[06:59] <arko> ait im out
[06:59] <arko> night yall
[06:59] <jonsowman> night!
[07:00] <number10> cu
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[07:04] <griffonbot> @daveake: RT @AnthonyStirk: AVA recovered in Austria check this out : http://t.co/dLJHEmaZf3 thanks to OM2AMR and friends for recovery #ukhas @Ras ... [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/323693246100426752]
[07:08] <griffonbot> @daveake: RT @AnthonyStirk: Ever needed skis to recover a payload ? http://t.co/POah8rOtiY #ukhas [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/323694369385365504]
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[07:24] <griffonbot> @ryanteck: RT @AnthonyStirk: AVA recovered in Austria check this out : http://t.co/dLJHEmaZf3 thanks to OM2AMR and friends for recovery #ukhas @Ras ... [http://twitter.com/ryanteck/status/323698339298291712]
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[07:30] <UpuWork> test sucess
[07:31] <fsphil> almost, there's been no text yet :)
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[07:33] <test123> Hi! Just stopped by to see if there were any way to get info on the Pi launch i read about on RaspberryPi.org. I got to see the map of where the balloon went but couldn't get any data on wether it was retrieved after flight or not.
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[07:34] <eroomde> test123: PIE lost, AVA recovered
[07:34] <daveake> I'll write up the flights today test123 and I'll put a link on the RPi site later
[07:34] <fsphil> PIE is likely sitting in a field somewhere in France
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[07:37] <test123> I noticed the last received location was near a lake, hope recovering won't include a dive. Looking forward to read the report. Love the UFO picture :-)
[07:38] <daveake> After that last position it would have climbed, possibly to well over 40km, then probably burst. I don't know how much further that would be but a landing in france seems likely
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[07:53] <dg9bfc> good moring :-)
[07:53] <dg9bfc> ups ... morning
[07:54] <fsphil> morn!
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[07:54] <dg9bfc> or how we say here in nothernd dl: moin mpin
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[07:55] <dg9bfc> a question ... is there any newsgroup to subscribe to know the balloon launches?!?
[07:55] <pk> 2 ballons flying, more to come?
[07:55] <dg9bfc> and if yes ... whre to fing/how to join??
[07:55] <fsphil> dg9bfc: http://groups.google.com/group/ukhas
[07:55] <daveake> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/ukhas
[07:55] <daveake> oh too slow
[07:59] <HixWork> g'moaning
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[08:01] <HixWork> dg9bfc, there is a calendar in ical format here: http://habitat.habhub.org/calendar/
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[08:15] <pe2bz> Hi. Can anyone send the link to the PIE SSDV images ?
[08:15] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
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[08:15] <x-f> http://ssdv.habhub.org/
[08:16] <pe2bz> x-f: Thanks !!
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[08:26] <Upu> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ICOM-IC-R10-communications-receiver-scanner-IC-R10-/171024588297?ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123
[08:26] <Upu> if anyone is interested
[08:29] <dg9bfc> GOTCHA! .... after some tweaking i can now read my news from gmail in outlook (and hopefully also answer them via that soft) ... now more logging in via webbrowser to gmail
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[08:51] <M0TVU> Morning ...
[08:52] <M0TVU> Anything planned for today?
[08:52] <craag> M0TVU: Are you not satisfied???!!?
[08:52] <craag> :P
[08:53] <x-f> :))
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[08:53] <fsphil> hah
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[08:53] <M0TVU> lol - I just didn't want to tread on toes. I'll do some testing then
[08:53] <fsphil> MOAR LAUNCHES!
[08:53] <craag> Nothing til this coming weekend afaik.
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[08:54] <UpuWork> lol
[08:55] <M0TVU> 434.650 ontop of the roof here in North Birmingham
[08:55] <HixWork> chrisstubbs and stratodean are scheduled for this weekend no?
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[08:58] <M0TVU> I'm hoping my temperature sensors arrive today.
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[09:02] <mattbrejza> the reason firefox was being slow: http://i.imgur.com/HEVrC3U.jpg
[09:02] <mattbrejza> (3 weeks worth of flights)
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[09:08] <fsphil> that poor web browser
[09:08] <mattbrejza> was using 4GB of ram
[09:09] <mattbrejza> look about 5 min to fully close
[09:09] <HixWork> that'll do it :)
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[09:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Andrew Myatt "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Proposed launch of AURA & AURA2"
[09:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Jens Pirnay "[UKHAS] Re: PYSY-4 Launch Announcement 13.4.2013"
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[09:12] <fsphil> We must be up to natrium68 by now
[09:13] <x-f> we have number10 and number36 here
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[09:14] <HixWork> and an mfa298 and willdude123
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[09:40] <UpuWork> ping radim_OM2AMR
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[09:50] <Babs> Morning all - A bristol stag do (messy) looked like a busy weekend for everyone judging by the spacenear this morning....I've noticed stratodean uses a 6-cell battery pack to power its arduino, I've used a 4-cell which works ok on a static test, but I've never used it in anger yet (i.e. at distance). Has anyone experience of launching an uno and having it transmit effectively up there whilst using a 4-cell arrangement? or does eve
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[09:53] <mattbrejza> 3 AAAs will do
[09:53] <mattbrejza> although i normally use AAs because theyre used for cameras
[09:54] <joph> just old cameras use AA
[09:54] <mattbrejza> i had made a lithium battery adapater thingy
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[09:59] <Babs> So the 4-cell AA pack http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8622607640/ will do the job then? Cool, thanks one less bit of polystyrene to cut out....
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[10:00] <eroomde> that should do
[10:00] <fsphil> I use those little 2x2 AA holders, they're great
[10:00] <eroomde> do tape them up before flight though
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[10:00] <eroomde> also it has been strong my experience that battery holders are not created equal
[10:00] <fsphil> https://secure.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8622543326/in/photostream/ -- skill level: MASTER
[10:00] <eroomde> I tested a large selection out of frustration once and found that many had a contact resistence of typically 2 ohms!
[10:01] <eroomde> The bulgin battery holders were the best I've found, by some margin.
[10:01] <eroomde> you can even get nice panel-mount ones which are IP67 (jet of water) proof
[10:02] <Babs> fsphil - melted two sheets with the wrong adhesive. Adhesive skill level: Sub amateur
[10:02] <eroomde> so you can load the batteries easily into the integrated payload
[10:03] <Babs> That may work for Babs tracker II eroomde - another downside of prototyping. Spending hours doing it one way only to work out at the end that one would have done it another. Batteries and location are a case in point...
[10:04] <Geoff-G8DHE_> <Babs> In your Gimbal setup do you have any sort of Gyro to maintain stability or is it just to remove movment from the tether line ?
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[10:06] <eroomde> Babs: indeed. But that's why we do v1 right :)
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[10:08] <Babs> Geoff-G8DHE - there are two main counterweight groupings. The first is the payload, which sits below the gimbal. The second counterweight grouping is in the form of three spinning wheels that sit on top of three rods 120 degrees from each other - you can see the basic arrangement here (although i just have dummy counterweights rather than the spinning wheels in this vid, and its the former incarnation of my payload box)
[10:08] <Babs> here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8589746393/in/set-72157632733154985
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[10:09] <Babs> The weights are far smaller than the payload to keep total weight down, but as they are positioned away from the gimbal (vs. the payload which is as close as possible to the gimbal) they should do the same job
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[10:11] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ah right I hadn't spotted the relevance of the lumps on the three rods!
[10:11] <Babs> Haven't yet tested the difference in the time to get the system leveled with the wheels spinning vs. not spinning. It should make some improvement, but I'm not expecting much. More of a test of concept more than anything.
[10:12] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Right I was looking for some spinning wheels within the actual payload area all at right angles or something like that!
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[10:13] <Babs> I sort of took a look at this http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Skycam_Husky_Stadium.jpg&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Skycam_Husky_Stadium.jpg&h=1716&w=3052&sz=1274&tbnid=VGRqNqDlsU0u-M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=160&zoom=1&usg=__lDAz2UaaCC_m3zJuWC0DSE2IUrQ=&docid=_9SRvbC-1fYKIM&sa=X&ei=mNJrUeeoJ-Wf0QXm74HADA&ved=0CEEQ9QEwAw&dur=6380 and tried to replicate it
[10:13] <eroomde> maybe actively controlled momentum wheels for controlled pointing....
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[10:13] <Randomskk> interesting idea eroomde i wonder if anyone has ever thought of trying that
[10:13] <Randomskk> :P
[10:14] <Babs> Its the same gimbal in the middle, two sets of weights (one at the top, one at the bottom) (and i presume the top package has some sort of spinning gyro thing in it)
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[10:14] <Babs> eroomde - the principles of that stability cube thing that someone (I forget who) posted the other day I think would have some applications here
[10:14] <mattbrejza> the idea being that if you accelerate or brake the wheels actively you can make it more stable while requiring less weight than spinning at a static speed?
[10:15] <Geoff-G8DHE_> The top package contains the aerial for the P2P link back as well as .... who knows ..
[10:15] <Babs> Also, my system is passive, whereas an active system would be far more effective
[10:15] <eroomde> mattbrejza: well, just that accelerating a wheel imparts and equal and opposite torque back onto the frame
[10:16] <eroomde> whereas there is in theory no equal torque imparted back for something spinning at a constant speed
[10:16] <eroomde> of course there is in reality from bearing friction and so on
[10:16] <Babs> Geoff-G8DHE - agreed, but there has to be a gyro in it somewhere. I took a look at one at Twickenham a while back and it is really stable.
[10:17] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Yes they are neveer had a look inside either! Ill have a chat with a colleague who is a BBC news cameraman he may have had the chance to study them in more detail!
[10:17] <eroomde> whereas a constant-angular-velocity spinning wheel provides some counter-torque in the 2 axes that are *not* its rotational axis
[10:17] <mattbrejza> but a mass moving at a static speed gets stability from the gyroscopic effect
[10:17] <eroomde> exactly
[10:17] <eroomde> but in the orthogonal axis to the momentum-wheel
[10:17] <eroomde> axes*
[10:18] <mattbrejza> yea
[10:18] <Geoff-G8DHE_> quite doesn't have to be heavy just spun fast!
[10:18] <dharnke> hi i wanted to know, i was looking at the wiki page for helium (cubic metres) needed for a 300g balloon is 0.84cu m. Should i order more helium than that amount or roughly the exact amount?
[10:18] <eroomde> there are also control moment gyros which take a gyro and actively rotate it about one of its other axis
[10:18] <eroomde> to provide a torque around the third remaining axis
[10:18] <eroomde> they're pretty powerful things
[10:19] <Geoff-G8DHE_> I'd just love to try assembling some Spherical images, but looking at other results so far the pacjage needs to be made more stable first!
[10:19] <eroomde> the space shuttles uses them to counteract the torque from the atmosphere
[10:19] <eroomde> space station*
[10:20] <mattbrejza> so would actively accelerating the wheels provide more stability for less mass than a constantly span gyro?
[10:20] <eroomde> because there's a density gradient from the atmosphere between the top and bottom of the station, it wants to start rolling
[10:20] <Geoff-G8DHE_> <dharnke> I assume you need that + the volume of the tank and tubing at least ?
[10:20] <eroomde> mattbrejza: well, with reaction wheels you have active control
[10:21] <fsphil> eroomde: that can't be very much above 0
[10:21] <eroomde> you can apply a bit more torque to the wheel to move a bit more in the other direction. whereas a gyro just spun up is passively stable
[10:21] <eroomde> it'll damp your movement but it won't do much against it gently drifting around
[10:21] <Babs> The other way which would be interesting to look at would be to have two weights moving along rails at right angles to each other. As the package starts to tilt, the weights are moved further away from the COG to stablise it
[10:22] <Babs> Sort of like what the segway tries to achieve by shifting the COG around
[10:22] <mattbrejza> useful if you wanted to try to take a long exposure of the sky on a hab, although i have a feeling that might be pushing how stable youll be able to get it
[10:22] <dharnke> i thought i needed some extra for tubing
[10:22] <eroomde> i would *love* to do an actively stabilised hab that could do some astrophotography
[10:23] <eroomde> it would be the epicest of things (imo)
[10:23] <Babs> Of course, you would need some sort of coding ability beyond 10 Print "Babs" 20 Goto 10 which is around about what I can muster up
[10:23] <Babs> to get it working
[10:23] <Geoff-G8DHE_> My own thoughts run around a gimbal to the tether line and then some vanes on the payload to impart a small spin to the whole payload - or stabilse it whilst the tether untwists itself.
[10:23] <mattbrejza> you could have analogue circiuts to point it...
[10:24] <fsphil> wide angle lense, and image stacking would make astrophotography easier
[10:24] <Babs> and valves!
[10:24] <eroomde> gotta love valves
[10:24] <eroomde> but srsly, turning picam into a star tracker would be a splendid thing
[10:24] <mattbrejza> many points to the first person to make good use of valves
[10:25] <lz1dev> fsphil: no.
[10:25] <lz1dev> stacking highly distorted images is kinda hard
[10:25] <mattbrejza> grumpy_cat.jpg
[10:25] <Babs> Geoff G8DHE - you can use a central rotating bearing to achieve the same. There's a vid on my page. Its a plastic bearing but works pretty well under load
[10:25] <fsphil> eroomde: it didn't image any stars, at least any that survived jpeg encoding. though Laurenceb did notice the LED on the board might have limited how sensitive it was getting
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[10:26] <fsphil> lz1dev: aah right, yea that's true
[10:26] <Babs> together with the flight computer being loaded up through a punch card system
[10:26] <eroomde> i think you'd want some kind of star tracker to get pointing information good enough
[10:26] <eroomde> i'm not suprised it didn;t pick up stars during the day
[10:26] <fsphil> eroomde: we have night time images
[10:26] <eroomde> the sky is still pretty bright, even if dark relative to earth and the sun
[10:26] <eroomde> oh yes of course yuou dfo
[10:26] <eroomde> i must learn to type
[10:26] <mattbrejza> whens the next eclipse due?
[10:27] <mattbrejza> that would be a good deadline
[10:27] <eroomde> mattbrejza: that's such a good idea i might dance on the spot
[10:27] <eroomde> IT MUST BE DONE
[10:27] <fsphil> 2015, just north of the UK actually
[10:27] <eroomde> would prefer a land recovery though
[10:27] <fsphil> yea, it's in the north sea
[10:27] <fsphil> you need a boat to see it
[10:27] <fsphil> north atlantic even
[10:28] <mattbrejza> tbh would the exposure time required be short enough for a non stabilised camera?
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[10:31] <eroomde> mattbrejza: not sure
[10:32] <eroomde> but i'd have thought it would need a moderate amount of stability to get a sharp picture with a decent aperture
[10:32] <HixWork> Do you think I could solder an SMA end launch onto this board to improve the crap receiver quality with an old router antenna? http://goo.gl/atoQc
[10:32] <mattbrejza> yea, suppose theres a difference between a okay photo and a super decent one
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[10:33] <manav16> Hi, is anyone there atm?
[10:33] <HixWork> need an f1.2 lens up there :)
[10:34] <HixWork> Hi manav16
[10:34] <mattbrejza> if you pointed a camera downwards you should even be able to see the shadow
[10:34] <fsphil> someone did that for the Oz eclipse
[10:34] <Babs> eroomde - the SLR would help, although for all of the discussion on stability getting it very high and away from 99% of the atmospheric buffeting and (most importantly) using some sort of bearing arrangement to stop the payload spinning would be the best way I think
[10:35] <Babs> that and taking lots and lots and lots of photos. Not an elegant solution, but prob most effective.
[10:35] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_9eYcGIT88
[10:35] <Babs> I like the idea of the shadow mattbrejza
[10:35] <Randomskk> if you take lots of photos anyway you could possibly do something clever with them
[10:35] <manav16> Hi, is it ok if I ask a question, unrelated to balloons? Its a very simple question, I think, but its my first time with Raspberry Pi, and I really needed help ASAP Ok, I have 2 raspberry pi's, 2 sd cards, 2 HDMI Cables, and 2 power supplies. So in the first SD Card I put xbian, through its installer: http://xbian.org/. Then i tried to boot it. The green light was flashing, and then the screen turned black for a second, then blu
[10:36] <fsphil> you'd be much better asking this on the raspberry pi forum
[10:36] <manav16> I did, but I just thought over here there are people who are here already, while on the forums it could take some time for a answer
[10:37] <mattbrejza> i think based on that video something stabilised and pointed would be needed to get anything decent
[10:38] <fsphil> yes
[10:38] <fsphil> a downward facing camera would be a must too
[10:38] <Babs> Here is an interesting one though wrt to eclipse. Yes, the eclipse is in Northern Europe at sea level, but presumably the eclipse at 30-40km high would happen in a different place (and a slightly different time). Might be lucky and bring it into the realms of land
[10:38] <fsphil> the shadow for that eclipse was very stretched, the sun was quite low
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[10:39] <JelmerD> I guess a lot of you guys have put a video about flying on youtube. When making a video, you would like to have some music in the backround, right? What I am searching for is the correct law. When I use some music in the background, let's say "Ben Howard - Old Pine" and I mention the title in the video, do I need permission?
[10:39] <fsphil> I prefer the real audio from the camera :)
[10:39] <JelmerD> Does anyone of you know that stuff? I have been looking for hours now, but I can't find a specific answer :(
[10:40] <JelmerD> fsphil: I agree on that, but sometimes you "have to" because it's nicer ;-)
[10:41] <LazyLeopard> JelmerD: It depends a lot on where you want the video seen. Wrong choice, and you'll find folks get "This video not viewable..."
[10:41] <mattbrejza> i think youtube has a library of free to use music?
[10:41] <mattbrejza> simply saying 'music by____' is not realyl enough
[10:41] <LazyLeopard> Either find some specifically open licenced music, or write and perform your own.
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[10:43] <JelmerD> LazyLeopard: writing my own, that wouldn't be smart I think. Would be a bit like *bang bang bang* on a drum as a complete retard haha
[10:43] <LazyLeopard> If it's been put out by one of the big labels, don't bother even thinking about using it.
[10:43] <radim_OM2AMR> UpuWork, I'm here, launch break :-)
[10:43] <LazyLeopard> Or find someone you know who writes and performs, and get permission from them.
[10:44] <JelmerD> Well, for example "Sail" has been used a lot on videos and they are all viewable. And as far as I know the rights are by a big label as well. Of course it depends on the label if they will take action, but as long as you don't claim to be the copyrightholder of the music, isn't that enough?
[10:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> Right dragged away by the phone - thinking about stability a long tube of payload, with gimbal connection at the top and the vanes I spoke of earlier ought to help things, the length to minimise sway, rotation contolled to some extent by vanes ... thoughts ?
[10:45] <UpuWork> hey radim_OM2AMR :)
[10:45] <UpuWork> sent you a mail
[10:45] <radim_OM2AMR> ok, I'm replaying to you
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[10:45] <LazyLeopard> JelmerD: You may find it's viewable here, but not in (say) Germany.
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[10:46] <UpuWork> thanks!
[10:47] <LazyLeopard> I think YouTube (in some countries) has specific arrangements for certain lables to allow certain works to be used on videos posted there, but the place to ask about that is YouTube...
[10:47] <mattbrejza> there must be a FAQ about it
[10:48] <JelmerD> LazyLeopard: hmm okay, because you can acknowledge on Youtube that you are using the music and that you "have a good-faith belief" that the claim is invalid because you may use it under the fair-use policy. That is the core of my question :) I basically want to know if it smart to sign that and make it viewable everywhere :)
[10:48] <mfa298> JelmerD: for UK at least I think you need to look into PRS and PPL and it can get expensive depending on the purpose and the audience.
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[10:49] <LazyLeopard> Anyway... Suppertime!
[10:49] <JelmerD> LazyLeopard: true that. mattbrejza: yep there is, but it doesn't answer the question. It's a lot of bollocks :p
[10:49] <mattbrejza> oh o
[10:49] <mattbrejza> k
[10:49] <JelmerD> mfa298: hmm okay.
[10:49] <mfa298> Best place to look for music is stuff that's released under Creative Commons.
[10:49] <JelmerD> I guess I will try to find a friend of mine who studies rights, maybe (s)he can help me out :)
[10:49] <Babs> Geoff G8DHE - the length won't minimise sway, all it will do is increase the period of oscillation, which you might not want either.
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[10:50] <mfa298> JelmerD: http://ccmixter.org/ can be a good source - there are different levels Creative Commons - often you may just need to acknowledge where it came from
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[10:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Babs yes your right but increasing the period assists as well, as the exposure is going to be quite short anyway given the lighting levels with the sun visible.
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[10:52] <JelmerD> mfa298: yeh, just found that link via http://creativecommons.org/legalmusicforvideos Thanks though! I will have a look at it
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[10:53] <mfa298> you might get away with fair use on youtube but that could be risky (I'm not sure that fair use applies in all countries), I've mostly looked at it from the live audio point of view.
[10:55] <mattbrejza> while you may be able to claim fair use, try arguing it when the record company ban hammers the video
[10:56] <mfa298> yep, Personally I'd try to steer clear of fair use (I'm not sure how much it even applies in the UK, I think it might be more of a USA thing)
[10:57] <mattbrejza> na UK too
[10:57] <Randomskk> it's almost certainly not fair use if you're using most of the song as background for your video
[10:57] <Randomskk> fair use is using small segments for criticism and discussion
[10:57] <Randomskk> not as background music for your video
[10:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> Varies by country see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_Kingdom#Fair_dealing_and_other_exceptions
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[11:19] <griffonbot> @Raspberry_Pi: RT @AnthonyStirk: Ever needed skis to recover a payload ? http://t.co/POah8rOtiY #ukhas [http://twitter.com/Raspberry_Pi/status/323757387737608192]
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[11:26] <griffonbot> @ercpe: RT @AnthonyStirk: Ever needed skis to recover a payload ? http://t.co/POah8rOtiY #ukhas [http://twitter.com/ercpe/status/323759257969360896]
[11:27] <mattbrejza> funny looking skis
[11:27] <Steffanx> That bot really should stop retweeting retweet :)
[11:27] <Steffanx> *retweets
[11:27] <fsphil> yea turns out there where no skis :)
[11:29] <Steffanx> fsphil, they didn't say there where. So the answer to the question is still: no :)
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[11:34] <mfa298> I'm sure a decent IRC client would allow you to ignore retweets from griffonbot
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[11:35] <Steffanx> mfa298 .. it's not THAT bad, but it will be when 100 people retweet with #ukhas in it
[11:36] <mfa298> you obviously missed it when the original tweet was sent last night, there was a lot of RT spam, but for the odd occasion it's not too bad to just ignore it.
[11:36] <griffonbot> @pchandyman: RT @AnthonyStirk: Ever needed skis to recover a payload ? http://t.co/POah8rOtiY #ukhas [http://twitter.com/pchandyman/status/323761798648037376]
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[11:37] <fsphil> most of those where willdude123 :p
[11:37] <mfa298> true, he did add to the spam
[11:39] <mfa298> it could probably do with some rate limiting so if lots of people re-tweet quickly you only get a summary line, but that's likely to be a lot of effort for the occasional occurance.
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[11:46] <cuddykid> is this the correct acetylene hose for H2 reg http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-35023-10-Acetylene-Hose/dp/B004OVXPT4/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1366026106&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=10mm+acetyline ?
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[12:08] <cuddykid> daveake: ah, just the person :) is this the correct hose for H2: http://www.rapidwelding.com/dynamic/DisplayItem.aspx?c=ACYHOSE10MM&po=A5130 ?
[12:09] <mattbrejza> just use garden hose and gaffa tape (what could possibly go wrong)
[12:09] <daveake> Mine is acetylene hose. However it's heavy. I'm going to make another with the thinnest lightest hose I can find :)
[12:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Jens Pirnay "[UKHAS] DL-FLDFIGI [Win] GPS Setvbuf error"
[12:12] <mattbrejza> lolwut ^
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[12:13] <mattbrejza> actually fldigi does use gps for something, nm then
[12:13] <fsphil> it has a chase car feature
[12:13] <cuddykid> anyone tried air products before for H2/He?
[12:13] <cuddykid> just found out there's a depot very close by
[12:14] <HixWork> Anyone know if i can use a dongle and SDR# to test my 2.4GHz video sender? RX seems to have dies, but then again it could be Tx
[12:14] <mfa298> I've seen the same thing on windows when I've tried using GPS with it. But then unless you're a mobile tracker there's not much need to use gps
[12:14] <HixWork> *dies
[12:14] <HixWork> **Died ffs
[12:14] <fsphil> if it can tune up that high, you should see a carrier from it with no video input
[12:15] <fsphil> I believe these video senders use FM
[12:15] <mattbrejza> im fairly sure the e4k doesnt do 2.4GHz but you can try i guess
[12:15] <mfa298> challenge is likely to find a dongle that can tune that high. But if you can you should be able to at least see something in the waterfall
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[12:16] <mfa298> E4000 looks to be the highest at 2.2GHz
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[12:16] <fsphil> I wasn't abel to get my FCD to see any wifi signals
[12:16] <fsphil> able*
[12:17] <mfa298> that's according to http://sdr.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/rtl-sdr
[12:17] <HixWork> just had a play in the office, seems like there is a load of stuff around 2.43GHz http://i.imgur.com/HMP9lC7.png
[12:17] <fsphil> wonder how much of that is real
[12:17] <HixWork> though from that I'm not sure how to use it for debugging, short of turn on/off and watch waterfall
[12:17] <fsphil> yea
[12:18] <mfa298> HixWork: that's what I'd do to start with
[12:18] <fsphil> or change the channel, see if the frequency changes
[12:18] <fsphil> then apply video, see if the signal changes
[12:18] <mattbrejza> hmm, wifi is either OFDM or DSSS, which doesnt look like that
[12:18] <HixWork> was fine yesterday, got a feeling there's so much stuff in homes on that band that its probably interference causing issues
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[12:19] <HixWork> though the Tx is 500mW ;p so should be frying everything else locally
[12:19] <fsphil> video senders should always generally give some kind of picture
[12:19] <fsphil> you do know the limit is 10mw :)
[12:19] <HixWork> It shipped from HK UK warehouse *shrug*
[12:20] <mattbrejza> unless you put it on a train apparently
[12:20] <HixWork> mattbrejza, aren't a lot of cordless phones 2.4GHz?
[12:20] <fsphil> everything is on 2.4ghz. more or less
[12:20] <mfa298> lots of stuff can use 2.4GHz
[12:21] <mattbrejza> theres 500mW for rfid at 2.4GHz too
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[12:21] <HixWork> the Tx looks fairly robust, but runs pretty warm [no real surprise at 500mW]
[12:22] <mattbrejza> theres 500mW for video cameras at 1.39GHz
[12:22] <mattbrejza> hadnt seen that before
[12:22] <HixWork> whereas the Rx is proper cack quality as you'd expect for what it cost, Rx andtenna is a length of 7/02 wire cut to length and soldered to the pcb
[12:22] <fsphil> I've not seen much hardware for that mattbrejza
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[12:23] <mattbrejza> http://www.rangevideo.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=229
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[12:24] <mattbrejza> ok it doesnt actually do 1.39, rather 1.36 (close enough right?)
[12:24] <HixWork> check out the quality of the soldering on the marketing shots http://goo.gl/PlZS8
[12:24] <HixWork> anf the high gain antenna http://goo.gl/atoQc
[12:25] <fsphil> that's awful
[12:25] <HixWork> Highest quality don't you know ;p
[12:26] <mattbrejza> i would assume video at 1.39GHz from a balloon is pushing it
[12:26] <fsphil> can you use it from the air?
[12:26] <fsphil> I bet it's not permitted
[12:26] <mattbrejza> it doesnt say you cant :P
[12:26] <mattbrejza> which means no
[12:27] <mattbrejza> its almost as if ofcom have done these regs to stop one transmitter putting out a lot of power over a wide area
[12:27] <fsphil> spoil sports
[12:28] <mfa298> mattbrejza: I think I'd looked before and airborne video is very limited
[12:28] <mattbrejza> yea same
[12:28] <G6WTR> as a good generalism the 1.3Ghz, if no one complains the Radiocomms ageny wont look for it, and as its going upwards they have no hope in finding it!
[12:28] <mattbrejza> unless you do UWB over a few GHz
[12:29] <griffonbot> @AnthonyStirk: Write up of AVA's flight this weekend http://t.co/hE6jjYkOgs Thanks to everyone involved #ukhas [http://twitter.com/AnthonyStirk/status/323775165991354369]
[12:30] <Upu> let the spam begin...
[12:30] <HixWork> reckon it's safe to remove the wire "antenna" and solder an SMA end launch to the board and use an old router antenna?
[12:30] <fsphil> I did that to one of mine HixWork
[12:30] <mfa298> probably safe, may not be legal
[12:30] <mfa298> don't forget most wifi antennas are silly sma
[12:30] <HixWork> just the Rx I' talking about
[12:31] <HixWork> tX as it shipped http://goo.gl/VyibK
[12:31] <mfa298> grrrr @ android. Seems like changing your password is a bad idea.
[12:32] <mattbrejza> the why 2.4GHz wifi wont work well graph: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dielectric_loss_water.png
[12:32] <cuddykid> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093511/Pilot-warns-copycat-weather-balloon-experiments-bring-airplane.html
[12:33] <HixWork> Had to be the Daily Fail scaremongering didn't it
[12:34] <UpuWork> f?cking daily mail sooner it goes bust the better the world will be
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[12:34] <HixWork> aye aye
[12:34] <cuddykid> yeah, they love the scare mongering
[12:35] <fsphil> good writeup UpuWork
[12:36] <Babs> Awesome flight Upu.
[12:36] <griffonbot> @daveake: RT @AnthonyStirk: Write up of AVA's flight this weekend http://t.co/hE6jjYkOgs Thanks to everyone involved #ukhas [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/323776890550775808]
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[12:39] <UpuWork> cheers guys
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[12:47] <x-f> that article is from January 2013
[12:48] <x-f> when i was at the CAA, we talked back and forth a few hours, and they said they knew about only one plane that has ever landed with some latex from a meteosonde on its wing
[12:49] <x-f> pilots have reported seeing the balloons, but no damage has ever been reported
[12:49] <x-f> err.. Jan 2012
[12:50] <cuddykid> yup, 1) the chance is ridiculously slim 2) if there was any inherent danger, I'm sure with such a strict organisation like CAA it would have been banned long ago
[12:50] <fsphil> the daily mail isn't happy unless it's trying to ban something
[12:52] <LazyLeopard> ...or claim something causes cancer...
[12:52] <fsphil> indeed
[12:52] <Brace> heh, the weekends flight went well it seems
[12:52] <Brace> love the recovery
[12:52] <LazyLeopard> ...or, preferably, both at once.
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[12:55] <UpuWork> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9dqNTTdYKY
[12:55] <UpuWork> for the Daily Mail
[12:55] <UpuWork> if I recall contains swearing
[12:56] <gonzo_> when talking about HAB stuff, people always bring up the plane risk. They are quite supprised when told that the UK met office launched around 24 sondes every day. (last I read was 2/day at up to 12 sites.)
[12:57] <willdude123> Hi.
[12:57] <fsphil> the sonde launch site here is only about 20km from an airport
[12:57] <UpuWork> afternoon Will
[12:57] <gonzo_> have a talk to do at my local club this sunday.
[12:58] <willdude123> internet security in schools is messed up
[12:59] <willdude123> :P
[12:59] <willdude123> Seriously.
[12:59] <willdude123> I am on IRC.
[12:59] <willdude123> At school.
[13:01] <willdude123> So how's stuff?
[13:01] <willdude123> Anything heard of PIE?
[13:02] <mfa298> Internet policy tends to be driven by HR (or similar) rather than people that actually know stuff. I've worked in places that wanted to block Facebook for everyone (to improve productivity), they re-thought that when it was pointed out that people needed to access FB as part of the job to update groups/pages
[13:03] <fsphil> we've had similar incident
[13:03] <mfa298> willdude123: it could be a while before anything is heard from PIE (if ever)
[13:03] <willdude123> Would it have added much to the weight if there was an aprs payload?
[13:04] <mfa298> may not have helped as I don't think it's clear if APRS can be used airborne in france
[13:05] <UpuWork> its unclear
[13:05] <UpuWork> though it was enabled for AVA :/
[13:05] <UpuWork> not that it was used
[13:05] <mfa298> I don't think there was any intention to recover it anyway
[13:05] <UpuWork> in fairness we had a PAVA in a ball which was meant to be strung under PIE
[13:06] <UpuWork> it was only 45g and would have lasted 45 hours +
[13:06] <UpuWork> but we forgot about it, launches can be hectic
[13:06] <mfa298> UpuWork: have you thought about also enabling APRS for when the balloon has landed (or close to landing) as that would be legal in more countries
[13:06] <willdude123> Bye!
[13:06] <UpuWork> yeah would work in theory but you'd have to be close to something
[13:06] <UpuWork> byw Will
[13:07] <UpuWork> that could recieve
[13:07] <UpuWork> as your antenna is likely to be bent on landing
[13:08] <mfa298> agreed on the ground it might not help much. I was wondering whether you could cheat slightly and assume you're on the ground when you're below a certain height. although choosing when to send the packet could be tricky
[13:08] <fsphil> best to have one on top and one on bottom
[13:09] <UpuWork> if AVA's APRS had been working it would have been RX'd on the ground I suspect
[13:09] <UpuWork> even though the antenna was in snow
[13:22] <Babs> The snow picture reminds me of the gang of criminals trying to recover the beacon locators with the suitcases of money in the Stallone movie Cliffhanger. I was half expecting Craig Fairbrass to appear from behind a tree in one of the photos and take out OM2AMR with a revolver.
[13:25] <Babs> Found it: http://aka.media.entertainment.sky.com/image/unscaled/2010/03/29/Cliffhanger-01-4.jpg
[13:28] <x-f> haha
[13:28] <kokey> blah I lent my canon ixus to my mom
[13:28] <kokey> and she's on the other side of the country
[13:29] <x-f> dunno, i'd say they were the SWAT themselves - a unit dispatched from their HQ in Slovakia to recover a secret surveilance minisat disguised as "Wilson", when "the eagle landed" in Alps
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[13:29] <kokey> what's the issues with those keychain cameras again?
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[13:29] <x-f> possible interference with GPS
[13:29] <x-f> kokey, planning a launch soon?
[13:30] <kokey> probably not that seen
[13:30] <kokey> seen=soon
[13:30] <kokey> need to add temp sensors, resolder the lot, put it in a casing, better antenna
[13:30] <kokey> need to get balloons and gas too
[13:30] <x-f> get SamSilver to track it too
[13:30] <kokey> and hustle the local ham radio communities to help me track
[13:30] <kokey> I'm in Cape Town at the moment
[13:31] <x-f> he is somewhere down there too
[13:31] <kokey> ooh
[13:32] <kokey> anyway I'll be in UK at the end of may so I might not get everything together in time, so I can pick up a few canon ixus/powershot cameras while I'm there
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[13:46] <kokey> oh looks like SamSilver might be on the east coast
[13:47] <kokey> oh wait, nope, might be CT
[13:47] <fsphil> yea CT iirc
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[14:01] <kokey> ah, looks more like Durban or near there
[14:02] <kokey> unless he moved recently
[14:02] <kokey> anyway at least he might help with the legalities
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[14:33] <Laurenceb> http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/lewis-page
[14:33] <Laurenceb> wtf
[14:33] <Laurenceb> thats doesnt make any sense whatsoever
[14:33] <Laurenceb> how can that guy be a guardian writer
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[14:42] <griffonbot> @stratodean: Here's how we are going to track our balloon this weekend! http://t.co/RORVLpgAh4 #stratodeanlaunch #forestofdean #ukhas #secondtimelucky [http://twitter.com/stratodean/status/323808641046171648]
[14:57] <Wolfy-K4GHL> Is there a power point presentation anywhere yall know of that details the configuration and launch and recover of any of these balloons that I could get to show to my radio club?
[14:59] <HixWork> not that I know of Timzaman made quite a nice schematic of the payload and tracking setup though here http://www.timzaman.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/hohoho-i-schematic1.jpg
[14:59] <HixWork> hmmm, apologies for the total lack of punctuation there :/
[15:02] <fsphil> its overrated anyway
[15:03] <griffonbot> @daveake: My write-up of Pi In The Sky flight 5 - lost in (near) space! http://t.co/JJW15vcZUd #Raspbery_Pi #UKHAS @Raspberry_Pi [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/323813740107681792]
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[15:06] <UpuWork> Question
[15:06] <UpuWork> 2013-04-13 14:36:24 UTC: M0UPU-11>APRS,WIDE1-1,MB7UH,WIDE2,MB7UKS*,MB7UKS,qAR,MB7UKS-1:!/4/*:OMLbO /A=079372|![|PA/M0UPU,1585,16
[15:06] <UpuWork> that packet was recieved by a UK station ?
[15:06] <mattbrejza> lol aprs
[15:06] <craag> yeah
[15:07] <UpuWork> that shows you why the law is pointless it was over the Netherlands at the time
[15:07] rmsds (b2fad595@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.250.213.149) joined #highaltitude.
[15:07] <fsphil> physics doesn't really bother with man-made laws
[15:08] <UpuWork> 2013-04-13 18:35:05 UTC: M0UPU-11>APRS,M0JAJ*,WIDE1*,WIDE2-1,qAR,MB7UIP:!/4mhRP]%hO /A=114870|"Y|DL/M0UPU,2735,0 [Location changes too fast (adaptive limit)]
[15:08] <UpuWork> germany...
[15:08] <fsphil> good range
[15:09] <Wolfy-K4GHL> Thanks Hix...
[15:09] <HixWork> nps Wolfy-K4GHL
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[15:11] <griffonbot> @AnthonyStirk: RT @daveake: My write-up of Pi In The Sky flight 5 - lost in (near) space! http://t.co/JJW15vcZUd #Raspbery_Pi #UKHAS @Raspberry_Pi [http://twitter.com/AnthonyStirk/status/323815820528594944]
[15:14] <fsphil> nice work daveake
[15:14] <daveake> cheers :)
[15:15] <daveake> might edit later but got some actual work to do, and I wanted to "unleash the Lester" before the day's out
[15:15] <daveake> A lot of the exciting stuff was Upu's flight but I left that side to him :)
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[15:18] <Wolfy-K4GHL> Not sure I'm going to follow through with it yet dave, but should I decide to, may I parse out some of the stuff you have posted for a presentation?
[15:19] <daveake> sure. I'll add a link to my flicr set you can take from there too
[15:19] G6WTR (3e03425e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.3.66.94) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[15:27] <Wolfy-K4GHL> thanks :) how does one get launches on the tracker site?
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[15:29] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Hum still here
[15:31] <HixWork> Wolfy-K4GHL, http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/ to get on the tracker I believe the document needs to be approved by someone on habitat
[15:33] chrisstubbs (~chrisstub@host86-150-148-104.range86-150.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:36] <HixWork> hey chrisstubbs
[15:37] <mfa298> totally off topic, but the IT peeps will like this: http://fishbowl.pastiche.org/2013/04/14/it_security_in_a_nutshell/
[15:39] <chrisstubbs> Hey HixWork
[15:39] <chrisstubbs> haha
[15:39] <HixWork> Nice day round these parts eh?
[15:39] <chrisstubbs> yeah not bad at all, wes lovley yesterday
[15:40] <chrisstubbs> OT again, and it looks completley rubbish. but for £30 I WANT THIS THING IN MY LIFE: http://bit.ly/ZlhDL1
[15:42] <griffonbot> @arkorobotics: RT @daveake: My write-up of Pi In The Sky flight 5 - lost in (near) space! http://t.co/JJW15vcZUd #Raspbery_Pi #UKHAS @Raspberry_Pi [http://twitter.com/arkorobotics/status/323823631106965504]
[15:42] <HixWork> recon it can run HABModem and tracker?
[15:42] <chrisstubbs> if it had GPS and android it would be awesome for sports
[15:43] <mattbrejza> the problem is android rather than is power
[15:43] <Wolfy-K4GHL> ROFL on the fishbowl link.... I believe it having worked for M$
[15:43] <chrisstubbs> i dont even think thats android, looks like chinese java
[15:43] <HixWork> looks like samsung low end android interface
[15:43] <griffonbot> @G0TDJ: RT @daveake: My write-up of Pi In The Sky flight 5 - lost in (near) space! http://t.co/JJW15vcZUd #Raspbery_Pi #UKHAS @Raspberry_Pi [http://twitter.com/G0TDJ/status/323823857037352960]
[15:43] <griffonbot> @G0TDJ: RT @AnthonyStirk: Write up of AVA's flight this weekend http://t.co/hE6jjYkOgs Thanks to everyone involved #ukhas [http://twitter.com/G0TDJ/status/323823876876419072]
[15:44] <daveake> busy bot
[15:44] <UpuWork> i suspect this is the calm before Liz wakes up
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[15:45] <daveake> lol
[15:45] <mattbrejza> if that thing had gps (or if you got one that did) you could have it display an arrow to your payload
[15:45] <mattbrejza> but then a phone isnt really that big
[15:45] <chrisstubbs> i mean it has BT so you could connect a BTGPS is the OS supports it
[15:46] <mattbrejza> would need a compass in it too
[15:46] <HixWork> mattbrejza, HAB Modem watch coming out on play soon? ;)
[15:47] <mattbrejza> lol no
[15:47] <willdude123> Afternoon.
[15:47] <gonzo_> I was going to ask how ling before they make an andriod version. But phones are going the other direction. They will be back to the transportable breeze block size again at this rate
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[15:48] <Babs> christubbs - I think you should buy it, organise a Dick Tracy-themed fancy dress party and then annihilate the opposition by taking a call during the presentation ceremony for best costume.
[15:48] <chrisstubbs> i want it so badly
[15:48] <willdude123> Sup bruvvas?
[15:48] <willdude123> *guys
[15:48] <chrisstubbs> going to email the seller to see if it runs android / supports BTGPS
[15:48] <mattbrejza> it would be feasible to interface to the pebble watch i suppose
[15:48] <chrisstubbs> afternoon willdude123
[15:49] <willdude123> How's the arm?
[15:49] <chrisstubbs> willdude123, its not going to be doing much any time soon im afraid man
[15:49] <chrisstubbs> will let you know when i have done somthing with it
[15:49] <willdude123> Thats fine, I know you have NSE and stuff.
[15:50] <chrisstubbs> yeah want to get some launches done this month then i will pay around with pi/arm stuff :)
[15:51] <willdude123> I was thinking, when I got onto the irc channel earlier, the web ssh client made me solve a captcha every 30 seconds. Can I get a web ssh client that doesn't do that?
[15:51] <willdude123> *onto the irc channel at school
[15:52] <mfa298> willdude123: you can probably install something on a vps (or similar that give you access to your irssi session) but you need to make sure its suitably secured
[15:54] <willdude123> I looked at shellinabox.
[15:54] <willdude123> Would that work?
[15:55] <mfa298> possibly,
[15:56] <mfa298> I came accross ajaxterm (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AjaxTerm) a while back.
[15:56] <mfa298> I think you need to run it on a webserver with SSL to make it secure
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[15:58] <willdude123> Minor problem is that an extremely outdated browser is used.
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[15:58] <willdude123> I think it's IE7
[15:58] <HixWork> Sick of the corporate network here so looking into a scoks proxy atm
[15:59] <HixWork> anyone know how to get ssh server running on cent os as W2K8 looks like an arse
[16:00] <mfa298> ssh is usually running on centos by default
[16:00] <HixWork> or the fact that I can ssh into it already means that it is runnig?
[16:00] <HixWork> ah, like you said mfa298 :)
[16:01] <mfa298> the server needs to be running to ssh into it so if you can ssh in it's working
[16:01] <mfa298> server being the ssh server software (usually openssh)
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[16:01] <willdude123> Is shellinabox ssh or direct?
[16:01] <mfa298> I think most linux distros turn ssh on by default
[16:02] <HixWork> hmm, methinks I may have a proxy coming right up
[16:02] <mfa298> willdude123: you're probably best off looking at the site for it, the first I'd heard of it is when you mentioned it
[16:03] <griffonbot> @DomasoFan: RT @daveake: My write-up of Pi In The Sky flight 5 - lost in (near) space! http://t.co/JJW15vcZUd #Raspbery_Pi #UKHAS @Raspberry_Pi [http://twitter.com/DomasoFan/status/323828808560025600]
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[16:03] <mfa298> HixWork: it's possibly to tunnel a lot of stuff directly through ssh - I've only done it for specific things but I think you can setup more generic tunneling with it as well
[16:05] <HixWork> hmm, something no worky
[16:05] <Geoff-G8DHE_> upuwork Has anyone tried applying for an NoV to allow using APRS on 2metres at low power ?
[16:06] <mfa298> Geoff-G8DHE_: I think Upu might have although I'm not sure he ever heard back, hopefully he might appear and confirm (or not)
[16:09] <mfa298> I've wondered if it would help if a group of people asked together, or maybe asked about more generic use of AR from airborne (with a few examples of what we want to acheive), ATV would probably be a good one.
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[16:10] <Geoff-G8DHE_> A while back now during the packet BBS heyday (I ran GB3VRB) asked about using PGP to sign messages, the response was very promising.
[16:12] <Geoff-G8DHE_> They wanted a "Project", timescales, resources etc to be detailed but were quite reasonable about it, at the end I couldn't get enougth others to committ for the 18 months we were proposing ....
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[16:12] <fsphil> you shouldn't need permission to pgp sign something -- it's not encryption?
[16:13] <gonzo_> I spoke with the main man for this att rsgb, and he reconed that special research permit was the way to go.
[16:13] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Discussion was it was not in clear text etc. but yes the proposal covered the non-encryption aspect!
[16:13] <gonzo_> sort of a lime itmited NoV
[16:14] <gonzo_> (time
[16:14] <Geoff-G8DHE_> All NoV's are time litmited unless they have changed ?
[16:14] <gonzo_> time limited
[16:14] <Geoff-G8DHE_> *limited
[16:14] <gonzo_> would be limited to specific investigations, rather than a yearly thing
[16:14] <fsphil> you have to limit your lime
[16:14] <Geoff-G8DHE_> With you
[16:14] <fsphil> too much is bad for you
[16:14] <mfa298> I think the NoV's that are more research have some time limits (for the project) e.g. 5Mhz
[16:16] <mfa298> special events are shorter duration NoV's (up to a month I think) but that's not so much of a project.
[16:16] <Geoff-G8DHE_> They are handled by RSGB directly anyway they have the "contract" from OfComm
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[16:19] <mfa298> ooo, looks like there's a new rsgb website coming next month including a live sdr reciever - what's the betting it won't cover 434MHz
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[16:21] <willdude123> Ajaxterm isn't working.
[16:21] <willdude123> :(
[16:22] <willdude123> Not connecting :(
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[16:23] <arko> morning
[16:24] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Afternoon
[16:29] <willdude123> So anyterm and ajaxterm and shell in a box don't work.
[16:29] <willdude123> Any others?
[16:30] <craag> mfa298: wow hadn't noticed about the SDR. I'd bet on a clone of the dutch hf websdr.
[16:30] <mfa298> willdude123: I'm sure they do work (I know of axajterm being setup by someone else) but I don't have any experience of them myself
[16:31] <craag> Hopefully not a globaltuner-type thing. That would be annoyingly un-useful.
[16:31] <mfa298> craag: that would be my guess as well.
[16:32] <craag> I don't think there's many VHF/UHF data people that will touch the rsgb.
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[16:32] <craag> They're all a bit too clever.
[16:32] <Upu> Geoff-G8DHE_ never heard back
[16:33] <Upu> but AVA was repeated from Netherlands and Germany by UK based stations
[16:33] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Was it long ago ?
[16:33] <Upu> yeah I should chase it I guess
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[16:34] <Geoff-G8DHE_> It just struck me that it might be a way of getting the idea accepted, even if we started with say a request for 10mW on 434.75 using packet....
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[16:37] <mfa298> might be worth asking for a bit more power or a different frequency as we can probably do 10mW packet as an ISM transmission anyway
[16:37] <craag> There's so many other services on 70cm though, I don't think they'd give us any more on that band.
[16:39] <Geoff-G8DHE_> No should be OK, MoD still have first dibs and their not about to give it up to just OfComm unless ordereed to from on high!
[16:40] <Geoff-G8DHE_> but even so 23cms isn't too bad, but actually going lower might be easier.
[16:40] <Geoff-G8DHE_> The main thing is to allow AR from the air!
[16:41] <mfa298> 433.800 could be interesting to ask for, it's just outside the ISM band and is listed as an alternative for APRS in the bandplan
[16:41] <craag> Hmm yeah.
[16:41] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Indeed sounds good.
[16:41] <willdude123> Can't connect to ajaxterm. Grrrrrr.
[16:42] <mfa298> scratch the first bit, it is within ISM. but would give a reason to ask for packet and AR from the air
[16:42] <craag> Using >1W on it might still jam wireless key fobs across v large areas..
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[16:43] <mfa298> it might be a case of see if there are any suitable modules and ask for a power limit based on that maybe around 300mW as that seemed to do ok for 2m APRS from the air.
[16:43] <Geoff-G8DHE_> We know we don't need vast power, its the change of ruling on AR from the air which is cirtical, once that is accepted once then, other things can follow ..
[16:44] <mfa298> asking for 10mW could be a safe bet as we could already do that, just not with an AR call sign
[16:45] <Geoff-G8DHE_> That's my reasoning! Once there and show no interference then the precedent is set....
[16:45] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Even using a listen before Tx might be viable, but increases the current draw for low power stuff.
[16:46] <mfa298> showing that the power and frequency are already allowed airborne could help with that as well (if we started off with 10mW)
[16:47] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Exactly and enough stuff using the band already un-licensed what more could be required ....
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[16:48] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Thing is not to cause OfComm hassle, if they can do it cheap they prefer it as its quicker to say Yes than No in some cases (not all) ..
[16:49] <mfa298> I think that's also part of the band we don't use with trackers so much as it's in the 10mW <10% duty cylce or 1mW section
[16:49] <mfa298> but for aprs that shouldn't be an issue.
[16:50] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Yes the protocol is irrelevant
[16:51] <mfa298> although if we're doing packet with AR callsigns that might be the sensible option.
[16:52] Action: mfa298 wonders if there's much of a 433.800 aprs network existing
[16:52] <craag> mfa298: Not that I know of.
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[16:53] <craag> Would be a great chance to implement it with something other than afsk
[16:53] <mfa298> I just found one list of the MB7 gateways and there looks to be one that's active
[16:53] <craag> oh :(
[16:53] <Geoff-G8DHE_> How do you do that by the way on the IRC channel ? i.e. the "* nick thought" thing ?
[16:53] <mfa298> /me
[16:53] <craag> /me though..
[16:54] Action: Geoff-G8DHE_ help
[16:54] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ah ha, there must be a list of commands somewhere other than the IRC standard ones ?
[16:55] <qyx_> /help
[16:56] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Yes i know that one ;-) but these Bot type commands aren't listed :-(
[16:56] <qyx_> these depends on network services / bots
[16:56] <mfa298> with the 433.800 and aprs I was just thinking that lots of things fit nicely for a first attempt (already listed as an alternative aprs frequency and part of the ISM band) in which case the only thing for ofcom/rsgb to decide is if we can use AR callsigns from airborne.
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[16:57] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Thats it its allowing the RA callsign from the air, once that has precedent set then, other things can be asked for - slowly ....
[16:57] <mfa298> I think /me is fairly standard - I've seen it on most IRC servers I've used.
[16:58] <craag> mfa298: So we need to try flying a 10mW AFSK tx on 433.8
[16:59] <craag> HT + attenuator?
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[16:59] <mfa298> that's what I was thinking, as that's already legal (with 10% duty cycle),
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[17:00] <mfa298> what we probably want is a 433.800 NTX2 or similar.
[17:01] <craag> Yeah... won't get one without a custom order though :/
[17:01] <Hix> Upu was saying you can change the crystal
[17:01] <Hix> though apparently it's an arse.
[17:01] <craag> Whats the frequency agile one that Upu's goign to try soon?
[17:02] <craag> ah LMT I think
[17:02] <Hix> LMT1 iirc
[17:03] <mfa298> I wonder if something like the TX2M would work http://www.radiometrix.com/content/tx2m-tx2i
[17:03] <craag> LMT2 - 433.9 - 434.65 :(
[17:03] <mfa298> has a 1200 baud modem in it - not sure if its afsk, yet.
[17:05] <Hix> what about things like the TX2H can you somehow reduce the power to 10mW?
[17:05] <mfa298> TX2M has an analogue in as well so we could presumably produce tones that way
[17:05] <Hix> they're on;ly a tenner but more powerful than an NTX2
[17:07] <Upu> lmt2
[17:08] <Hix> Upu, is it possible to cut the power of TX2H to <10mW?
[17:09] <bertrik> mfa298: for more advanced modulation methods, for example?
[17:09] <Hix> seems stupid that the version of NTX2 that has 2.5 times the power is half the cost
[17:11] <mfa298> bertrik: my thought was initially to do APRS on 433.800 as it fits nicely with the UK AR Bandplans and the ISM band for airborne (so should give the easiest possible NoV for Ofcom/RSGB to authorise)
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[17:15] <Upu> sorry back
[17:15] <Upu> the LMT2 is a better bet
[17:15] <Upu> its 10mW
[17:15] <Upu> Frequency agile
[17:15] <Upu> and TCXO on it
[17:15] <Upu> you can also coax it into doing alternative modes
[17:16] <Babs> nice coax pun Upu
[17:16] <Babs> ;-)
[17:17] <Upu> or however you spell it :/
[17:17] <willdude123> Does anybody undrstand AJAXterm?
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[17:20] <Hix> anyone offer some wisdom on a socks proxy? Ive forwarded port 22 on router at home to cent os > ssh into it no problems. set windows to use socks proxy on localhost:22 but keep getting a 130 error
[17:20] <arko> hahaha! I didn't know those funny images were actually onboard PIE, i thought it was on the web end
[17:21] <Hix> using putty with tunnel set to dynamic22
[17:22] <mfa298> if you're setting it up in putty I think you have to specify an additional port for it to listen on
[17:22] <Upu> yeah arko SSDV
[17:23] <arko> yeah, i just thought when it got dark someone injected fakes into the website for fun or something
[17:23] <arko> the fact that those were stored onboard and transmitted
[17:23] <arko> awesome
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[17:24] <nigelvh> Hix, http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/security/use-putty-as-a-secure-proxy-on-windows/421
[17:24] <nigelvh> This is a very well documented procedure.
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[17:24] <arko> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ssdv
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[17:25] <arko> nice write up
[17:25] <mfa298> Hix if you're doing it with putty on the windows box Ithink you need to select dynamic in tunnels and add a port into the source port box and click add, that port is where you point the socks client
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[17:28] <Hix> yup, in tunnels I've selected dynamic and port 22 add save config
[17:28] <Hix> set windows to use localhost:22 as socks
[17:28] <mfa298> id be tempted to use a different port rather than 22 (although it should work)
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[17:31] <Hix> nigelvh, that is what I've followed. Ive set a tcp forward port 22 on the router at home to the ip of centos on the network
[17:31] <Hix> mfa298: using 22 just to get working then I'll change it
[17:32] <Hix> just got port forwarded to that port already and know it works as can ssh into centos
[17:32] <craag> Hix: You're sshing on port 22, and you've got an open ssh session to home right?
[17:32] <Hix> yup
[17:33] <craag> Try tunneling 8080 instead.
[17:33] <Hix> ok
[17:34] <mfa298> seems to have worked for me, I used 1080 for the tunnel port, set FF to use a socks proxy on localhost:1080
[17:34] <mfa298> whatsmyip.org shows the address of the machine I ssh'ed to
[17:34] <craag> Yeah, I use this technique often on linx for tpb access :)
[17:34] <craag> *linux
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[17:36] <craag> Hix: Working?
[17:37] <craag> You're still sshing on port 22 btw, so you don't need any more ports opened on your router, just to clarify.
[17:37] <Hix> Nope. Set port forward for 8080 then in putty set tunnel to dynamic port 8080
[17:37] <Hix> something is blocking something somewhere
[17:37] <Hix> which clears things up nicely :)
[17:37] <craag> So your ssh session onto home-ip:22 is working and opening a shell?
[17:39] <Hix> yes fine
[17:39] <Hix> can pwd ls etc and see CentOS working tickedyboo
[17:39] <mfa298> when acting as a socks proxy putty will listen on localhost (and whatever port you've put as the source port in putty)
[17:39] <craag> cool, and you have Dynamic tunneling on Local port 8080.
[17:40] <craag> No remote port, leave it blank
[17:40] <Hix> yup just dynamic on 8080 then add shows as D8080
[17:40] <craag> k
[17:40] <craag> what browser do you have?
[17:40] <Hix> Chrome
[17:41] <craag> Do you have ff?
[17:41] <craag> (I'm a chrome fan, but ff handles it's own proxies)
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[17:41] <Hix> not at moment, can install it tho
[17:41] <craag> Might be worth a try if nothing else is working
[17:41] <craag> Just to troubleshoot
[17:42] <mfa298> i think you can also manually set proxies in IE (as a way of testing)
[17:43] <Hix> chrome is using the windows internet setting dialog
[17:43] <Hix> which iirc IE does too?
[17:44] <mfa298> i had a feeling you could tell IE to do it's own thing. although it's been a while since I've looked at IE
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[17:45] <Hix> heh, whys that then ;p
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[17:45] <mfa298> IE8 you can specify a proxy manually.
[17:45] <mfa298> and that looked similar to what I remember in older versions
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[17:47] <mfa298> the settings dialogue even looks the same in IE10 (after hunting around for IE on the laptop)
[17:48] <mfa298> I don't think the options in IE have changed much since at least IE6 - I can't remember IE4/5 that well now
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[17:50] <Hix> looks like firefox doesn't like it either
[17:50] <Hix> nope failed
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[17:52] <Hix> apart from the D8080 in tunnels nothing else should be specified or checked? two options on top local ports accept and remote ports do the same both unchecked
[17:52] <craag> Hix: Socks v5, 127.0.0.1, 8080 in the SOCKS, rest blank?
[17:52] <Hix> in ff?
[17:52] <craag> yeah
[17:53] <Hix> twas, but not looking like its worked
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[17:54] <Hix> nope fail
[17:54] <qyx_> never worked for me in ff
[17:54] <qyx_> add foxyproxy addon and specify socks proxy here
[17:54] <craag> hmm the only thing i can think of is try socks v4
[17:55] <craag> other than that im stumped
[17:59] <Hix> working. deleted everything in putty then set up a new profile, seemed to do it. cheers
[17:59] <craag> :)
[18:00] <Hix> now for a big F.U to work protocol :D
[18:00] <Hix> to be honest the biggest annyoance was youtube being blosked and flickr
[18:01] <Hix> jesus, I really should just slow down the typing in IRC, this is appaling
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[18:08] <fsphil> so it was you who named flickr
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[18:13] <Hix> fsphil: heh, probably my US equiv, wish i had though
[18:14] <eroomde> i'm doing that thing where i'm layout out a pcb but all i'mn really doing is zooming in and out a lot with my mouse's scroll wheel
[18:14] <eroomde> in mental paralysis
[18:14] <arko> everyone makes fun of me for that
[18:14] <arko> i never understood
[18:14] <arko> i zoom around like crazy
[18:14] <fsphil> I select random bits of text in wikipedia articles I'm having trouble digesting
[18:14] <Hix> eroomde: I spend a LOT of time in CAD with my spacemouse just rotating and zooming
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[18:15] <Hix> then the idea just comes. It's like a form of muzak
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[18:15] <willdude123> Can anyone help me with ajaxterm?
[18:15] <Hix> spacemeeces are ftw
[18:16] <Hix> just horrible when you switch to a program that doesnt support them, it's like losing a limb
[18:17] <fsphil> spacewhaty?
[18:17] <willdude123> Can anyone get on to http://vps.willdover.co.uk:8022 ?
[18:18] <Hix> 3D motion controller, its like the big nipple on a thinkpad, sensitive to pressure in 6DOF you use it to pan, zoom, rotate fsphil
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[18:18] <Hix> fsphil: http://goo.gl/oUBsy
[18:18] <fsphil> my nipple only moves the mouse*
[18:19] <fsphil> *context is important
[18:19] <x-f> willdude123, not accessible
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[18:20] <Hix> good integration fsphil
[18:20] <Hix> heh
[18:20] <willdude123> Dammit.
[18:20] <fsphil> that thing looks scary
[18:20] <willdude123> Ajaxterm is messed up.
[18:20] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:20] <fsphil> ello jcoxon
[18:21] <jcoxon> spacenear.us is beginning to calm down
[18:21] <Hix> they are a massive win if you spend all day in CADland
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[18:21] <eroomde> Hix: does it do anything in eagle?
[18:21] <Hix> function buttons are really cool too
[18:21] <willdude123> Anyone familiar with ajaxterm?
[18:21] <Hix> unfortunately no eroomde
[18:21] <eroomde> the permentantly orthogonal to layout perspective makes me think not
[18:22] <Hix> though CS4 upwards, acrobat and google earth have adopted it
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[18:22] <Hix> you can use it to pan zoom in pdf shame eagle doesnt
[18:22] <Hix> sure it wouldnt be a massive task for someone to write a driver for eagle for it
[18:23] <Hix> I have an ancient one called a spaceball heh
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[18:25] <Hix> who did the logo, was it daniel saul?
[18:25] <eroomde> i have used it for google earth
[18:25] <eroomde> when i visited the goog in mountview they had a massive google earth thing in their foyer
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[18:25] <Hix> pdf is good for spec sheets eroomde
[18:26] <Hix> you can pan and zoom at the same time
[18:26] <eroomde> a wall of very large lcd screen around you in a circle, and in the middle a plinth with a space navigator
[18:26] <eroomde> and you could fly around the world in a quite enjoyable way
[18:26] <Hix> they take a while to get used to the sensitivity but they are a dream to use, cars should have them
[18:26] <Hix> its the fewteeeer
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[18:43] <mclane> ping mattbrejza
[18:43] <mattbrejza> pong
[18:43] <g4sgx-iainnalksl> Hi guys, Tnx for the weekend, most stimulating.. Been putting together a design for a PIC computer but am stuck when it comes to a camera module. Any ideas on whats best? all seem very high temp. Serial or USB.
[18:43] <jonsowman> haha
[18:43] <jonsowman> oops wrong window
[18:43] <jonsowman> sorry
[18:43] <mclane> Hi Matt, do you know this application: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=36930621 ?
[18:44] <mattbrejza> yea i have seen that before
[18:44] <mattbrejza> it is something that i may look into (interfacing to SDRs)
[18:44] <mclane> I have installed it together with your app on my Google Nexus 7
[18:44] <mclane> works basically
[18:45] <mclane> but only via loudspeaker / mic
[18:45] <mattbrejza> ha yea, i was wondering how you were getting them to talk
[18:45] <mattbrejza> well good to know a tablet can handle both at once
[18:45] <mclane> so I would need a "virtual headset to mic cable"
[18:46] <mclane> In Linux there is pulseaudio with the monitor feature providing such a service
[18:46] <mattbrejza> yea wiring audio out to mic in should work, although a bit hacky
[18:46] <mclane> is there something similar in Android??
[18:46] <mattbrejza> not that i know of, but i havnt looked
[18:47] <mclane> The Google Nexus 7 tablet has no mic in connector ;((
[18:47] <mattbrejza> ah
[18:49] <mattbrejza> a quick search suggests its not possible without modifying android
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[19:04] <fsphil> g4sgx-iainnalksl: whatever is cheapest/easiest to use :)
[19:04] <Upu> evening
[19:05] <chrisstubbs> Hey upu
[19:05] <Upu> did BONZO get recovered ?
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[19:07] <Ijon_Tichi> Upu i was looking over the backlock of the chan from time to time, bot sadly no updates about BONZO as i remember
[19:07] <Ijon_Tichi> :/
[19:07] <Upu> shame
[19:07] <Upu> car was close to it
[19:07] <Upu> oh well
[19:08] <Upu> ping gonzo_ ?
[19:08] <Ijon_Tichi> or ive missed something but i expect the worse :(
[19:09] <gonzo_> eve
[19:09] <mfa298> Upu: I think GMT went to look but couldn't hear any signals where he was in the area
[19:09] <Upu> odd
[19:09] <Upu> hey gonzo_
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[19:09] <Upu> bonzo get recovered ?
[19:09] <gonzo_> the antenna was just thin wire
[19:10] <gonzo_> could have gotten squashed up on landing
[19:10] <Upu> ah ok
[19:10] <gonzo_> nope, GMT could not hear anything
[19:10] <Ijon_Tichi> last thing i remember is that the one who searched for it didnt here it, and the area were it possibly will be was to big to search it all
[19:10] <gonzo_> but it does not take much to lose a 10mw signal when it;s on the ground
[19:11] <gonzo_> he was using a scanner whoch was probably not the most sensitive rx going
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[19:12] <gonzo_> will try another next time the winds are going north
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[19:12] <Upu> yeah send it my way
[19:12] <Upu> I'll do another floater at some point
[19:12] <Upu> think I'll have a week off though first
[19:13] <gonzo_> and you will send it back, hab-airmail
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[19:14] <mfa298> is that the HAB variation of ultimate frisbee
[19:15] <Ijon_Tichi> hehe, just wait for the right wind direction and put it under the actual payload for return xD
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[19:15] <Upu> well 2 for 2 at the moment
[19:15] <Upu> the one to France was returned :)
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[19:25] <gonzo_> my first tracker flew three times, I think
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[19:28] <mclane> mattbrejza: there is pulseaudio for android: http://arunraghavan.net/2012/01/pulseaudio-vs-audioflinger-fight/
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[19:29] <willdude123> Hi.
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[19:30] <mfa298> willdude123: with your ajaxterm did you open up the port on the linux firewall ?
[19:31] <mfa298> also I think you want to run it on https as otherwise I think you username and password go unencrypted over the internet
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[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, gonna test the chip antenna GPS tomorrow :)
[19:43] <mattbrejza> mclane: i still think that method requires you to mess around with android too much
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[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> man
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> Denver has a snowstorm
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> look at the date!!!
[19:48] <PD3EM> Boston: two explosions during Marathon near finishline :-(
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[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> yeah just heard it and read it in Sueddeutsche newspaper
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[19:51] <PD3EM> was a great day yesterday with the AVA recovery
[19:51] <Upu> Was amazing
[19:51] <Upu> written up here http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=522
[19:52] <Upu> Dave's written up as well
[19:52] <PD3EM> yeah... saw it on twitter
[19:52] <PD3EM> Nice phot's from the recovery
[19:52] Nick change: azend_ -> azend
[19:53] <Upu> Yep Radim and friends did an amazing job
[19:53] <PD3EM> they sure did!
[19:53] Nick change: azend -> azend_
[19:54] <PD3EM> was a long trip fori them. abt 200km drive, hike trough the snow and drive back
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> one of my balloon team guys has an idea for his Raspberry Pi
[19:55] <PD3EM> great
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> he wants to make a webserver
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> with a harddrive which can be switched on with a relay
[19:57] <PD3EM> and connect to it over radio?
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> via internet afaik
[20:01] <mfa298> I'd have thought it's better to just tell the drive to spin down.
[20:01] <chrisstubbs> does anybody use thier FT-817 on AA batteries?
[20:01] <mfa298> using a relay just sounds like it could do nasty things
[20:02] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: I have tried it in the past but don't normally
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[20:02] <nigelvh> Lunar, no relays. Hard drives support spinning themselves down without disconnecting the interface. Use that.
[20:02] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, do you know if you can plug it into the DC input while batteries are in it?
[20:02] <chrisstubbs> i remember seeing a warning somewhere not to?
[20:03] <chrisstubbs> eg plug it into car cig. lighter adapter
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[20:03] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: not sure off hand, although I thought you possibly could as long as the cable is wired properly
[20:03] <PD3EM> Thought it would be launched with a HAB ;-)
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, his idea was hooking up the power supply to the relay
[20:03] <mfa298> I think one of the cables indiciates if it's rechargeable or not
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> PD3EM, xD yea
[20:04] <chrisstubbs> oh right i see what you mean, yeah i have the standard non rechargabe AA pack, so i presume the recharge bit is disconnected, i guess i should check the manual :P
[20:05] <mfa298> i tend to just use the rechargeable pack or run from the car/off an sla
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[20:05] <nigelvh> Lunar_Lander, is this a USB drive?
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> I don't remember if he said what sort of drive it is
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> I think a SATA one
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> something just crossed my mind
[20:06] <nigelvh> If it's USB that would probably work ok. Don't do it with sata. The interface isn't designed to be disconnected like that, and if you shut off power, then the sata would shut down.
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> a thing he might not have thought of
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> he said something about the relay and mains voltage
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> there is no mains voltage in a computer
[20:07] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, SLA is a good idea, just checked the manual and i see no warnings, i think the warning was on the CAT control software's "turn off over serial port" command when running on batteries
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> he needs to be careful with that
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[20:07] <nigelvh> Yes, and he can't just disconnect power from a SATA drive.
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[20:07] <nigelvh> If it's a sata drive, he needs to have the computer send a spin down command.
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> I'll have to talk to him again
[20:08] <nigelvh> If it's USB, it's designed to handle disconnections and reconnections, so that could work.
[20:08] <mfa298> SATA2 is supposed to support hot plug as part of the spec, although I've never really wanted to trust it.
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:09] <mfa298> but I'd have thought for most things spindown is probably safer as you know the drive will have written data before it spins down
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[20:09] <nigelvh> Exactly
[20:11] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: from memory I think the bits I've seen about changing the cables on the FT817 is so that you can use the AA holder as a rechargeable pack
[20:12] <chrisstubbs> ah ok cool, might look into that some time later :)
[20:13] <chrisstubbs> as long as the AAs dont blow up when i plug it into the car thats fine by me for now
[20:13] <g4sgx-iainnalksl> Hi, can anywell tell me what module can be used to TX APRS data on 144 Mhz?
[20:13] <nigelvh> Most people use the Radiometrix HX1 and an Arduino
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> thanks mfa298 and nigelvh
[20:14] <fsphil> remember that you can't transmit on 144 mhz in the UK from the air
[20:14] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: some details on here http://www.qsl.net/bg9bl/ft817/ft817.htm
[20:14] <Upu> I used a HX1 module
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[20:23] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, oooo so many relays
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> I got a GPS question from my friend
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> he got a NEO-6Q
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> and he asks what active antennas are good
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> and which passive ones
[20:24] <Upu> same as max6
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[20:26] <arko> ah crap, there was a bombing in boston
[20:26] <arko> :/
[20:26] <Upu> yeah
[20:26] <Upu> not good
[20:27] <on3ptz> is there some more information of the modules used in the balloons ?
[20:27] <Upu> hi on3ptz
[20:27] <Upu> AVA or PIE ?
[20:27] <on3ptz> pie is ras pie i think
[20:27] <Upu> Yeah
[20:28] <on3ptz> so i like ava more
[20:28] <arko> im curious about the PIE hardware
[20:28] <Upu> https://plus.google.com/photos/118244444241111963790/albums/5866449031725163409/5866449047251231666?banner=pwa
[20:28] <Upu> Thats PIE
[20:28] <arko> ava awesome for running on 1.8v
[20:28] <Upu> its a Model A with alot stripped off it
[20:28] <Upu> there are 2 NTX2 075 modules slightly detuned
[20:28] <arko> whats that on the bottom left?
[20:29] <Upu> and a Arduino Pro to multiplex (?) between them
[20:29] <arko> foil protected
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[20:29] <Upu> bottom left is one of my GPS modules
[20:29] <Upu> This one : http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=52
[20:29] <arko> rf protection with foil?
[20:29] <Upu> interference yes
[20:29] <Upu> just in case
[20:29] <arko> nice
[20:29] <arko> ok
[20:29] <arko> i was wondering if that was 100% necessary
[20:30] <Upu> 6 AA energizers and a pair of antennas
[20:30] <arko> but good idea
[20:30] <Upu> AVA was slightly different
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, so the Sarantel as a passive antenna?
[20:30] <Upu> yes Lunar
[20:30] <arko> are those glued in?
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> and active?
[20:30] <Upu> Yes Arko
[20:30] <arko> cool
[20:31] <Upu> Yes Lunar_Lander you can use passive or active
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:31] <arko> excited to get AVA back?
[20:31] <Upu> Let me find some pics of AVA
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> do you know any specific active antenna model?
[20:31] <Upu> any Lunar
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:32] <Upu> Sarantel range
[20:32] <Upu> anything you just need an inductor and a resistor to power them see data sheet
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:32] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/IMG_1064.jpg
[20:32] <on3ptz> With my balloon GPS i had the problem that the GPS stopped sending valid data above 25km
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[20:32] <Upu> need a better GPS :)
[20:32] <Upu> so AVA was 2 PCB's that clipped together
[20:33] <Upu> bottom one was a modification of my PAVA boards, AVR running at 1.8V 4Mhz
[20:33] <Upu> on the flip side is the GPS and radio
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[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> thanks Upu
[20:33] <arko> https://plus.google.com/photos/118244444241111963790/albums/5866449031725163409/5867011870539275858?banner=pwa
[20:33] <arko> wow thats tiny
[20:33] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/pAVA/img014.jpg
[20:33] <on3ptz> Did AVA also send images ?
[20:33] <Upu> no
[20:33] <arko> what was the final mass?
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[20:34] <Upu> not alot Arko looking
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[20:35] <chrisstubbs> chase laptop seems to work
[20:36] <Upu> http://imgur.com/QgDpXf3
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[20:36] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: that's always a good start
[20:36] <arko> wow
[20:36] <arko> thats like nothing
[20:36] <Upu> that will run for 72 hours from a pair of AA energizers
[20:37] <arko> wondering how much He im gonna need for my floater next month
[20:37] <arko> 1.8v FTW
[20:37] <arko> :P
[20:37] <Upu> actually
[20:37] <Upu> sorry less
[20:37] <Upu> but quite a lot
[20:37] <arko> yeah
[20:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> Boston marathon bombed :-(
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea :(
[20:38] <Upu> AVA was just a test "pico" APRS & 70cms RTTY payload with geofencing code on3ptz
[20:38] <arko> yeah, it's messed up :/
[20:38] <arko> ahh ok
[20:38] <arko> how many cubic feet of H?
[20:38] <Upu> cubic what ?
[20:38] <arko> lol
[20:38] <arko> cubic meters
[20:39] <Upu> tbh not sure
[20:39] <Upu> there wasn't much neck lift
[20:39] <Upu> ping daveake what was the neck lift
[20:39] <Upu> and don't say 2 rolls of pink gaffer tape
[20:39] <arko> http://files.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/277689_S/The-Land-Before-Time.jpg
[20:39] <arko> s/time/feet/
[20:39] <Upu> which is what we measured it with
[20:39] <daveake> 2 rolls ... oh
[20:39] <daveake> 300g
[20:39] <arko> you got 300g of neck lift?
[20:39] <daveake> Well I can go weigh them to check
[20:39] <daveake> about that yes
[20:40] <Upu> well I think mine was 181g of neck lift
[20:40] <Upu> the payload was 180g
[20:40] <arko> oh wow
[20:40] <daveake> lol
[20:40] <arko> that looks like quite a bit of hydrogen as is
[20:40] <Upu> yeah it was about 300g
[20:40] <daveake> Upu yours had no lift :p
[20:40] <Upu> not that much
[20:40] <arko> wow
[20:40] <daveake> It went up though will-power
[20:40] <arko> damn it, this is going to be more expensive than i thought
[20:41] <arko> gonna need to order some more parts for Upu too :P
[20:41] <arko> daveake: nice write up btw :)
[20:41] <on3ptz> i did last buy the SSTV camera module from https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=150 , din't get it working since it runs on smoke, and the smoke escaped from the chip ....
[20:41] <daveake> cheers arko :)
[20:41] <chrisstubbs> on3ptz, ouch!
[20:42] <on3ptz> supid lose wires :)
[20:42] <on3ptz> stupid
[20:42] <arko> ah!!
[20:42] <arko> hate it when the smoke gets out
[20:43] <arko> damn, i might go with Hydrogen then, He is gonna run quite a bit
[20:44] <on3ptz> did someone try using a laser on a balloon ?
[20:44] <on3ptz> (laser pointing down)
[20:44] <arko> for what?
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[20:45] <on3ptz> at night it will give a nice effect
[20:46] <arko> laser show at the edge of space
[20:47] <on3ptz> well i did that :)
[20:47] <nigelvh> Perhaps just an LED. A laser is probably in poor taste just because you have no control on where it's pointing. If it were to hit somebody in the eye, or a pilot, it would be bad.
[20:47] <arko> pew pew
[20:47] <on3ptz> i have a 800mw green one
[20:47] <arko> yeah that would be bad
[20:47] <arko> for pilots
[20:47] <on3ptz> range +- 400km
[20:48] <on3ptz> if you use it there are everywhere planes :)
[20:48] <on3ptz> so you point in to a other direction
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[20:49] <on3ptz> and then you see even more planes ...
[20:49] <on3ptz> end then you stop
[20:49] <on3ptz> and 5 min later you hav e2 helicopters above you
[20:50] <on3ptz> so it's now in the closet forever
[20:51] <x-f> O.o
[20:51] <on3ptz> a non focused laser is more fun
[20:54] <chrisstubbs> Upu how much data did the BATC stream use for your launch?
[20:54] <Upu> you mean on the 3G ?
[20:54] <chrisstubbs> yeah
[20:54] <arko> Upu: how much did the 300g balloon cost?
[20:55] <Upu> give me a few mins chrisstubbs
[20:55] <chrisstubbs> cheers :)
[20:55] <Upu> Arko it was a 1600g balloon
[20:55] <arko> o wow
[20:55] <Upu> and about £90 from Random Engineerin
[20:55] <Upu> g
[20:55] <arko> thats expensive
[20:55] <arko> yeah
[20:56] <Upu> well big balloon
[20:56] <arko> so it doesn't burst right away?
[20:56] <Upu> yeah they are the ones you need to get high and float
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[20:57] <Upu> 128.26Mb chrisstubbs
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[20:57] <chrisstubbs> oh blimey thats okay haha
[20:57] <Upu> yeah its nothing
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[20:58] <chrisstubbs> is the BATC bit hard to set up?
[20:58] <Upu> £7.13 it cost me
[20:58] <Upu> nah
[20:58] <on3ptz_> hmmm batc.tv is much nicer than our own http://www.hamtv.be system
[20:58] <Upu> just need Adobe Flash Media Live Encoder
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[20:59] <arko> makes sense
[20:59] <Upu> might even up the frame rate next time, the 3G at Elsworth is very strong
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[20:59] <arko> i was hoping to do that with the foil balloons, but had doubts
[20:59] <arko> need to start looking into this
[20:59] <Upu> I looked at other things
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[20:59] <Upu> ustream is good but a totally utter complete waste of time as just when it gets interesting they slap an ad in your face
[21:00] <fsphil> could just do the streaming directly, icecast or some other media server
[21:01] <Upu> yeah couldn't get that working reliably
[21:01] <chrisstubbs> i was tempted to use ustream, maybe not after hearing that :P
[21:01] <Upu> tbh none of the open source things worked properly
[21:01] <chrisstubbs> ustream has a mobile app which wouls be handly
[21:01] <on3ptz_> we mostly use composite video-encoders made for CCTV
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[21:05] <chrisstubbs> well depending on 3G etc there may/may not be a stream of NSE, probably using ustream though for simplicity
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[21:14] <chrisstubbs> Ah yes i have been meaning to ask a ntx2 question mr upu
[21:15] <chrisstubbs> habjoe also want to launch on saturday using 434.650, is it an ok idea for us to adjust the pots on our ntx2's each way a bit so we dont clash?
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[21:22] <Upu> you can but you need to be careful
[21:22] <Upu> it worked for PIE
[21:22] <chrisstubbs> careful of what exactly?
[21:22] <Upu> ping daveake, did you adjust the bias points down on those modules or just retune them ?
[21:23] <daveake> I put them back to original settings
[21:23] <Upu> if you over do it the shift messes up
[21:23] <Upu> ok
[21:23] <fsphil> the two ntx2s being on different payloads means the temperatures will change differently
[21:23] <daveake> They were already 4kHz apart :)
[21:23] <daveake> indeed
[21:23] <fsphil> there is a risk of a clash
[21:23] <daveake> Not sure I'd go for that
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[21:24] <daveake> These were in the same payload and glued together and onto the battery pack :)
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> a BMP085 hooked to 5V gives some 60 bars as pressure
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[21:25] <chrisstubbs> Yeah the frequencies may drift over eachother in flight i suppose, not ideal
[21:25] <chrisstubbs> im not sure what to do now
[21:28] <jcoxon> chrisstubbs, launch in pm?
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[21:31] <WilldudeTablet> Good evening.
[21:32] <chrisstubbs> I rescheduled my launch before habjoe, should have started a new thread to make it a little clearer of our intentions
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[21:36] <LokisSword> Hey all
[21:37] <fsphil> howdy
[21:37] <LokisSword> Have some better radio kit on the way :)
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[21:37] <LokisSword> Got chatting to a buy at work who turns out to be a Technician level ham
[21:37] <LokisSword> er... buy = guy
[21:38] <fsphil> the spending begins!
[21:38] <fsphil> whatcha getting?
[21:38] <LokisSword> He's going to lend me his ICOM PCR-1000 on long term lend
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[21:39] <fsphil> ah interesting gadget
[21:39] <WilldudeTablet> Upu: So how does a PCB work? :-)
[21:40] <LokisSword> Yup, I think that with a netbook would make a good mobile tracking platform
[21:40] <mfa298> LokisSword: that sounds like a good result
[21:40] <fsphil> WilldudeTablet: magic
[21:40] <WilldudeTablet> What is the point of the NRX2 if most people use their own SDRs or SSBs?
[21:40] <fsphil> WilldudeTablet: it appears to use RS232?
[21:40] <fsphil> the NRX2 is for short range reception
[21:41] <fsphil> the ntx2 is really only meant for short range data
[21:41] <LokisSword> mfa298: yes, I thought so - just need a decent mounting point on the roof for an aerial now :)
[21:41] <WilldudeTablet> So why aren't more powerful modules used?
[21:42] <fsphil> 10mw is as powerful as they get
[21:42] <fsphil> legally
[21:42] <fsphil> well there are exceptions
[21:42] <LokisSword> I'll relegate the SDR to DVB-T and spend some money on a better aerial, rather than pre-amp for the SDR
[21:42] <fsphil> 500mw on 869mhz for example
[21:42] <WilldudeTablet> So why isn't that used?
[21:42] <fsphil> it's limited to 6 minutes of transmittions per hour
[21:42] <fsphil> 10% duty
[21:43] <WilldudeTablet> Can you tamper with car fobs on the NTX2 frequency?
[21:43] <fsphil> or 6 seconds per minute, whichever way you want
[21:43] <griffonbot> Received email: STRATODEAN "[UKHAS] STRATODEAN Launch 10am 21/04/13 from Coleford, Forest of
[21:43] <fsphil> you can jam them quite effectivly :)
[21:44] <WilldudeTablet> Can you open cars?
[21:45] <fsphil> no, just prevent others from opening their own car
[21:45] <griffonbot> Received email: Chris Stubbs "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - NSE1 - Sat 20th April 2013 - 9AM"
[21:45] <WilldudeTablet> Why can't you?
[21:45] <fsphil> can't I what?
[21:46] <mfa298> the key fobs have various security encodings so you can't pretend to be one
[21:46] <mfa298> if they could be easily fooled they wouldn't provide very good security
[21:46] <WilldudeTablet> Ah OK.
[21:47] <daveake> Unless it's a BMW http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=25953
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[21:51] <LokisSword> Ah that's better a proper IRC client :D
[21:51] <fsphil> I solved this problem by having a dodgey fuel line, my car would probably stop after a minute
[21:51] <WilldudeTablet> Did ava and pie fail for the same reason.
[21:51] <WilldudeTablet> ?
[21:51] <fsphil> ava didn't fail
[21:51] <fsphil> pie just ran out of power, which wasn't reailly a failure either
[21:52] <fsphil> that was by design
[21:52] <Upu> hey willdude123 PCB just uses copper tracks where wires go so makes it more robust
[21:53] <WilldudeTablet> Oh Okay.
[21:53] <fsphil> how do antennas work. that's real magic
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> probability function waves
[21:54] <mfa298> come on then fsphil, tell us about the magic :p
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> or something
[21:54] <LokisSword> ah well, atleast thsi hobby has made me re-use a load of stuff that was gaining dust :D atom netbook, e220 3g dongle, usb gps dongle ... see I knew it would all come in handy one day *cough*
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[21:55] <eroomde> LokisSword: another fine member of the busty-netbook club
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[21:55] <LokisSword> got 2 lol, mine and the missus's
[21:55] <fsphil> if my eeepc didn't have a faulty battery it would be a great little machine for tracking
[21:55] <LokisSword> other one is running a minecraft server for the kids...
[21:55] <qyx_> you must be kidding you are about to send laptop to the sky
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[21:56] <LokisSword> qyx_: that'd be some balloon flight - not sure I'd want to take responsibility for that landing on someone!
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[21:57] <fsphil> PC104 FTW
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> I have thought of a zx81
[21:58] <fsphil> I suppose it's only a matter of time before someone launches a PC
[21:58] <arko> sup eroomde
[21:58] <eroomde> fsphil: they are good car dash pcs
[21:58] <fsphil> I've got a C64 motherboard for it, but I'm not sure if I wanna risk it
[21:58] <eroomde> just with 12V in
[21:58] <fsphil> that's true eroomde
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[21:59] <fsphil> it would be trivial to drive an NTX2 from a c64 but gps would be tricky
[21:59] <fsphil> from what I can tell it has no uart
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[22:00] <LokisSword> retro-habing
[22:00] <LokisSword> I can see it catching on
[22:00] <fsphil> hook up the video out to a 2.4ghz transmitter
[22:01] <fsphil> play some sid tunes
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[22:01] <SpeedEvil> or do a DV launch. with an Amiga.
[22:02] <arko> haha
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[22:02] <fsphil> A600 is quite compact :)
[22:03] <fsphil> I like my amiga too much to risk it
[22:08] <arko> good ol 68000
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[00:00] --- Tue Apr 16 2013