highaltitude.log.20130409

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[02:35] <arko> evening
[02:35] <arko> it tiz
[02:35] <nigelvh> Yo
[02:35] <arko> sup dude
[02:35] <nigelvh> Eating some dried strawberries, replying to emails, watching some TNG, you?
[02:36] <arko> just proved using stats that my hab has landed withing 0.75km of a zone with a probability of 99.991%
[02:37] <arko> most likely within 0.25km
[02:37] <arko> redid all the math one last time before the search and rescue folks head out friday
[02:37] <weiz_> where is it?
[02:38] <weiz_> I mean part of the world
[02:38] <nigelvh> Good job, but it makes all the difference to find it before the radio stops transmitting.
[02:38] <arko> turtle mountains
[02:38] <arko> oh, california
[02:38] <arko> nigelvh: i know, but it landed in a very hard to get to spot
[02:38] <arko> very hard to get to
[02:38] <arko> wilderness, so no driving
[02:38] <nigelvh> And?
[02:38] <arko> 100deg F weather
[02:39] <arko> horrible hiking conditions, rocks and loose dirt
[02:39] <weiz_> what is on the payload?
[02:39] <arko> looks harmless, but one must be careful
[02:39] <arko> cameras, radios, instrumentation
[02:39] <weiz_> damn, we lost the last Whitestar with thousands of hours of work put in
[02:40] <arko> oh i know that feel
[02:40] <arko> HABEX1
[02:40] <arko> RIP :(
[02:40] <arko> so much work and time
[02:40] <arko> and money ohhh the money
[02:40] <weiz_> thats why you need a team
[02:40] <arko> where you drom weiz_?
[02:41] <weiz_> I live in Kentucky but I am in Peru right now
[02:41] <weiz_> at an internet cafe with a shitty bylingual typeboard listening to leftover crack and trying to study plasma physics
[02:41] <weiz_> i took a break to check in here
[02:43] <weiz_> these kids are using a plastic whistle and one of those childrens lawn mower toys with the balls that pop up in the cage while you push it. The guy to my left is watching what could be considered porn and the guy on the right is watching cooking shows
[02:43] <weiz_> not condusive to study
[02:45] <arko> wow
[02:45] <arko> peru
[02:45] <arko> how is it over there?
[02:45] <weiz_> I like it
[02:45] <weiz_> I have been making bronze jewelry and selling it to break even on food
[02:46] <weiz_> Hitchiked here from Guyana
[02:46] <arko> wow
[02:46] <arko> doing this for fun?
[02:47] <weiz_> for life, sure, its fun
[02:47] <weiz_> hard to seperate the two
[02:50] <weiz_> I wish I could go to our hackerspace right now instead of a loud internet cafe
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[04:58] <KT5TK> We've launched a Pico floater tonight. Didn't get very high, still it was fun to track. http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FKT5TK-2&timerange=21600&tail=21600 Landing prediction: 31.368451,-95.19499 Half way between Lufkin and Crockett on 7
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[05:00] <arko> woah nice!
[05:02] <KT5TK> 130 miles are not bad for a party balloon. But likely one of the 4 mylars burst or got a leak
[05:02] <KT5TK> so we just got up to 12kft
[05:05] <arko> oh cool, so you used several mylar balloons ay
[05:05] <KT5TK> yes 4
[05:05] <KT5TK> My payload was ~9-g plus a 808 camera. So quite heavy for a pico
[05:06] <KT5TK> 90g
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[05:12] <arko> 30 minutes until the next update
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[06:35] <arko> man it's windy outside
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[07:05] <arko> has anyone ever put a pressure sensor inside their balloon?
[07:09] <Darkside> yeah
[07:09] <Darkside> mattbrejza did i think
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[07:20] <arko> neat
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[07:51] <GW8RAK> Morning all. Does anyone want some surface mount resistors for the price of postage?
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[08:01] <Brace> arko: a mate of mine as a 9 way sensor board (his words not mine) that measures a load of stuff like that, which we're planning on putting in our payload
[08:01] <Brace> I don't know exactly what it measures, but it's that sort of thing
[08:02] <jonsowman> wonder if he means this https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10183
[08:03] <Brace> jonsowman: yes, I think it's that sort of thing
[08:03] <Brace> he's an embedded linux dev, so he's got lots of little things like that from his work for various things
[08:04] <jonsowman> :)
[08:04] <Brace> which is useful as it cuts down payload costs a bit :D
[08:04] <jonsowman> haha
[08:04] <jonsowman> handy
[08:05] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[08:05] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
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[08:07] <jonsowman> I assume the AURAs aren't going ahead today
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[08:15] <HixWork> Is this a well known thing that i missed out on? - When creating components in Eagle, rather than changing grid spacing you can just lay thre pard/pad/whatever on 0,0 and use the info button to specify the centre instantly
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[08:23] <jonsowman> HixWork: yeah that's pretty well known :P
[08:24] <HixWork> :/ late to the party as ever
[08:24] <jonsowman> HixWork: or you can ctrl-click to pick the object up at its centre
[08:24] <jonsowman> then type the coords into the command line at the top
[08:24] <jonsowman> (0.343, -3.141)
[08:24] <HixWork> ah, oki
[08:24] <jonsowman> and press enter
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[09:05] <willdude123> Morning.
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[09:46] <Babs> *taps microphone* is this thing on?
[09:47] <Babs> I'll go first. For my quarter wave antenna, understand the need to have some degree of flexibility in the antenna pointing down from the payload package to avoid stabbing people in the head in the event of parachute failure, but I have two questions:
[09:48] <Babs> 1. If it is just a hangy down wire (technical term) is that stiff enough to still transmit a good signal when it is wafting around on the way up?
[09:49] <number10> some people use a straw
[09:49] <x-f> people usually put a drinking straw on it to keep it straight
[09:49] <Babs> 2. Once the antenna is built, how do you avoid fracturing the wire when you are prepping the capsule at home (ie. if you are setting it down, presumably the antenna is bending back and forth as you are lifting it up and down
[09:50] <Babs> straw. makes sense. I was going to use a straw for the radials, makes sense to use it for the antenna
[09:50] <fsphil> I set it on two boxes with a gap between for the antenna
[09:51] <Babs> Thanks fsphil - I thought maybe carve a channel into the bottom of the box, bend the antenna over once and tape it horizontally in the same plane as the radials, and then just untape it when it is ready to go. One or two bends back and forth would probably be OK i guess
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[09:52] <Randomskk> could use flexible wire
[09:53] <eroomde> Babs: i used insulation pipe lagging
[09:54] <eroomde> see: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4721971075/in/set-72157624203062811
[09:54] <eroomde> ignore the draper box it's resting on
[09:54] <eroomde> the radials are heatshrunk to thick cable ties
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[09:57] <Babs> eroomde - as in the cable ties keep the wire stiff, and then you heatshrink a sleeve over the top?
[09:57] <Babs> Is that metallic gaffer tape?
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[09:59] <eroomde> Babs: yes to furst q
[10:00] <eroomde> first*
[10:00] <eroomde> 2nd q) radiator insiulation from a hardware shope. foil-backed foam
[10:02] <Babs> (and this is clearly a rubbish question because you got it to work) I'm surprised the gps works through layers of foil. Presumably they are thin enough that the signal passes straight through. I had some runners-blanket mylar type materials that I was going to attach to mine, but then bailed as I thought it might impede signal getting through
[10:03] <Randomskk> the lid is not covered
[10:03] <Randomskk> though iirc it wasn't even conductive
[10:03] <Randomskk> just shiny
[10:03] <Randomskk> can't remember for sure though
[10:03] <Randomskk> mainly the lid is not covered
[10:04] <Babs> ahh ok. thanks both
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[10:08] <Babs> Lastly, does anyone tune their antennas with an SWR, or is the pickup good enough to not worry about it?
[10:11] <eroomde> it's good enough usually
[10:11] <Darkside> if you have a SWR meter it wouldnt hurt to check
[10:11] <Darkside> but yeah
[10:11] <Darkside> if you cut it right, its usually fine
[10:11] <eroomde> but it's worth noting that SWR meters only show you what the impedance match is like
[10:11] <eroomde> a good impedance match doesn't mean a good antenna
[10:11] <eroomde> it's quite easy to build 50 +0j Z heaters
[10:12] <Darkside> if the impedance match is right into a 1/4 wave monopole, it means the radiation pattern should be close to ideal
[10:12] <eroomde> and specifically, sometimes you might be getting more rf out into the air with a 'worse' swr match then a better one
[10:13] <eroomde> but yes I agree with Darkside, it's difficult to go wrong with a 1/4 wave with monopole. Just get it geometrically right and all will be fine
[10:13] <eroomde> 1/4 wave with ground plane*
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[10:15] <Darkside> any other type of antenna just adds more chance to do something wrong
[10:15] <Darkside> and a 1/4 wave monopole gives a 'nice' radiation pattern
[10:15] <eroomde> I agree
[10:16] <Darkside> though if you're directly below it it won't help too much
[10:16] <eroomde> but equally you're at your closest and it usually works out ok
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[10:16] <willdude123> No flights today I presume.
[10:16] <Babs> On 434.075Mhz, I calculated the right length to be 16.4cm for the antenna, 17.2cm for the radials?
[10:17] <Darkside> as long as the radials are longer than the driven element, thats fine
[10:17] <Darkside> the length sounds fine
[10:17] <eroomde> the radials are less critical. they're just approximating an infinite ground plane. so as long as they're >= 1/4 wave they'll do the job
[10:17] <Darkside> it should be approx 0.235*wavelength
[10:18] <eroomde> 16.4mm for the active element is fine
[10:20] <Babs> OK cool - thanks all - in other news - bought some UHU all purpose adhesive after I ran out of UHU POR. Said it was good for polystrene on the packet but I can now confirm it has a great ability to instead burn through blue foam like the dribble from the Alien's mouth in Aliens I (and II and III for that matter)
[10:20] <Darkside> haha
[10:21] <eroomde> yes i have come across that one too. likewise some spraypaints
[10:21] <Babs> Almost did an impromptu crash test outside of my third floor window as a result. I've calmed down now.
[10:21] <eroomde> I hope you didn;t destroy all that beautiful work you did with the scalpel?
[10:23] <eroomde> Or rather, that the glue didn;t destroy it?
[10:24] <eroomde> i wish I could unmap hitting ; instead of ' from my fingers
[10:26] <Babs> Just two of the 30 or so panels, and then two of the less complicated ones. As with all prototypes, when you make another copy it is doubly as good and you do it in half the time so in the end its not the end of the world
[10:26] <Babs> However, I wasn't seeing it in that degree of rational clarity at 11pm last night :-$
[10:30] <eroomde> I sympathise
[10:30] <eroomde> Especially as most haobby engineering tends to be done at that time.
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[10:35] <Babs> IIt is all fitting together quite well though http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8625299967/in/set-72157632733154985 although the litmus test is really whether it stays together and I get it back. As William Morris said, nothing useless can be truly beautiful.
[10:36] <chrisg7ogx> good windy morning!
[10:44] <eroomde> It's looking very good Babs
[10:44] <eroomde> I do very much like the truss method of construction
[10:44] <eroomde> and available 3D printing is the missing link that put me off it when I had a go a few years ago.
[10:46] <Babs> Ta. The carbon fibre is biblically strong. I reckon the next time around it could go a lot thinner.Haven't yet had the courage to stand on it yet to test it (and won't mind).
[10:47] <Babs> In retrospect it is overengineered.
[10:47] <Babs> A right angled barrel jack for the arduino. Is it known by another name? I'm struggling to find it on farnell, although I am sure they must have one.
[10:48] <fsphil> sometimes just called DC plugs
[10:48] <willdude123> No launches today?
[10:48] <fsphil> don't believe so willdude123
[10:49] <HixWork> babs - these are much less expensive than farnell and no £20 order min http://www.bitsbox.co.uk/connectors/power_con.html
[10:49] <HixWork> DC PCB-mount Power Socket.
[10:49] <HixWork> Available to suit 2.1 and 2.5mm power
[10:49] <HixWork> 26p
[10:51] <Babs> magic. thanks hixwork!
[10:52] <HixWork> they seem pretty good, oredered last night at about 20:00 and its been dispatched this morn at about 09:00
[10:53] <HixWork> one thing to watch with them barrel jacks is if you are using a fabbed PCB then make the holes ~3.2mm plated through holes
[10:53] <HixWork> as the slot profile isn't something most of them do
[10:53] <HixWork> just fill it with solder, seems fine
[10:54] <HixWork> bottom left http://i.imgur.com/PbShViC.jpg
[10:54] <eroomde> I recommend taping those connections on before flight
[10:54] <eroomde> if it's not locking, lock it
[10:55] <HixWork> hot glue or similar, I've got a breakout for 2 wires to be soldered too
[10:56] <Babs> It's a male plug for the battery pack for the arduino so isn't fabbed, but the stress on the plug will be in line with the plug so I'm going to do it right angled instead. The whole arduino is locked into the styrofoam shell and there will only be a gap for the wire so should be ok*
[10:57] <Babs> *Although I think a similarly confident statement was said about 0-rings 27 years ago
[10:57] <fsphil> those are the ones that usually go wrong
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[10:58] <Babs> fsphil - you reckon the straight one is the way forward? (I have one made up already)
[11:01] <fsphil> personally I use locking headers
[11:02] <fsphil> someting a bit like http://cpc.farnell.com/molex/22-04-1021/2-5mm-pin-header-2-way-lock/dp/CN09570
[11:02] <Babs> I'm limited a little as I'm using an arduino uno with a shield
[11:03] <fsphil> I'd try and secure it down. either a bit of glue or tape
[11:03] <fsphil> just to stop vibrations, more than having it fall out
[11:03] <fsphil> *stopping it fall out
[11:04] <Babs> Good tip. I'll post a picture when I get it up and running.
[11:08] <fsphil> possibly overkill, but one less thing to worry about
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[11:38] <chrisg7ogx> is Aura not launching today?
[11:40] <fsphil> last email yesterday said "AURA Launch tomorrow now very very unlikely"
[11:41] <cuddykid> anyone know of any small polystyrene cooling/payload boxes? After having a look on fleebay the smallest seems to be quite big
[11:42] <cuddykid> ideally looking for something with internal: ~15cm x 15cm x 15cm or so
[11:42] <cuddykid> if not smaller (just going to contain a tracker)
[11:43] <chrisg7ogx> tks phil
[11:43] <fsphil> you could make one easily enough cuddykid
[11:43] <cuddykid> fsphil: true, but I need 10 of these, so if already made would be best
[11:43] <fsphil> ah
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[11:47] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: mug holder a little too small?
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[11:48] <cuddykid> I think it's slightly pushing it - saw those on eBay
[11:48] Nick change: Penfold_ -> Penfold
[11:48] <cuddykid> seem to be a lot of them and egg holders!
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=200745503984&index=1&nav=SEARCH&nid=03402021313
[11:48] <cuddykid> think I'll go with a pallet of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/POLYSTYRENE-BOXES-COOL-BOX-FISH-BOX-VARIOUS-SIZES-QUANTITIES-/321102848184?pt=UK_BOI_Restaurant_RL&var=&hash=item4ac338a0b8
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[12:00] <Brace> SpeedEvil: I just found them as well
[12:00] <Brace> the mugholder
[12:02] <SpeedEvil> cut away some of the internals - seconds with a sharp knife - and you've got a 10*15*10 or so cm box
[12:02] <SpeedEvil> inside
[12:04] <mattbrejza> arko: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/ckmcpr_-q0U (wasnt actually me but i was chasing it)
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[12:10] <Gaz> Afternoon all.
[12:10] Nick change: Gaz -> Guest65587
[12:10] <Maxell> hai
[12:11] <Guest65587> I take it this IRC channel is as opposed to a UKHAS forum?
[12:11] <UpuWork> yeah its a little more interactive than a forum
[12:11] <Guest65587> Yes I like it, takes me back to 'the good old days' :)
[12:12] <Maxell> Hey! I've been non-stop on IRC for the last 3 years! It's not old! :P
[12:15] <Guest65587> In that case, I was wondering if I could ask a question. A couple of friends and I are looking to launch a weather balloon. We're based in Milton Keynes. We've been using the habhub to get a rough idea of where our balloon will end up 'drifting'. We're aiming for our burst altitude to be around the 60k feet region, but with current wind it seems to think our payload will end up half way between Ipswich and the Netherlands!
[12:15] <Guest65587> I was wondering what kind of altitude you guys normally aim for, and if you've had any issues with losing balloons to the sea.
[12:16] <cuddykid> 30km
[12:16] <cuddykid> or higher :)
[12:16] <jonsowman> they do go in the sea sometimes, use the predictor to try and avoid that
[12:16] <jonsowman> winds are particularly bad at the mo
[12:16] <cuddykid> yeah, winds are awful currently
[12:16] <cuddykid> especially from milton keynes
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[12:20] <cuddykid> google maps is having an odd moment, no imagery at any zoom level for me
[12:21] <fsphil> 18km is quite a low altitude to aim for
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[12:38] <Guest65587> Thanks for the replies. I used the predictor earlier in the day and it seems to think we'll travel about 185km from the launch site, and land about 20km west of Ipswich. I assume this is just because of the high winds we're having at the moment then? Our planned launch isn't until the end of July/early August so I guess I will just have to asses much closer to launch date.
[12:39] <Guest65587> 30km or higher seems crazy! I'd love to get that high, although for our first I think we're just trying to play it safe. If it goes to plan, we will schedule another for a much higher altitude.
[12:40] <jonsowman> 185km is more than typical
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[12:42] <Guest65587> Wow, in that case I'll be hoping for much more northerly winds! :)
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[12:43] <jonsowman> they do tend to be westerly
[12:43] <jonsowman> just not quite as strong as currently
[12:43] <jonsowman> Guest65587: you're fairly near Cambridge - we (CUSF - www.cusf.co.uk) have a permanent launch site at Churchill College
[12:44] <jonsowman> if you're interested in using it you'd be welcome. it saves faffing around with your own site and getting permission
[12:46] <Guest65587> Thank you Jonsowman, that's really useful! The launch site is less than an hours drive from me. I will get in touch with cusf slightly closer to the time to arrange use of their site. Thanks again!
[12:47] <jonsowman> no problem, use the address on the contact page :)
[12:47] <jonsowman> I may have left CUSF by then, in which case I've just volunteered someone else. but don't worry, it'll be fine :D
[12:47] <Randomskk> haha
[12:48] <fsphil> I like the way you did that
[12:48] <Brace> shouldn't be hard, they're student, bribe them with beer
[12:48] <Randomskk> wish we had time for drinking
[12:48] <lz1dev> or free sondes
[12:51] <Guest65587> Haha! I'm sure a beer bribe can be arranged. I've actually got a few friends studying at Cambridge at the moment so I'll have a word with them and see if they can work their magic from the inside :p
[12:51] <jonsowman> I'm sure we can sort something out :)
[12:52] <Brace> it doesn't seem that hard to get a notam, so I might do that
[12:52] <Brace> so I don't have to travel to cambridge
[12:53] <jonsowman> the choice is yours of course, but the offer's there
[12:53] <Brace> but launching in Wales has issues, as there's not many listeners and if the wind is wrong it's not far to the irish sea
[12:53] <Guest65587> Thank you again for all the advice guys, you've been more than helpful. Have a good day, and I'm sure I'll sure you'll see me here often asking questions!
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[12:56] <mattbrejza> Brace: wales is probably one of the better places to launch as far as hitting land is concerned
[12:56] <mattbrejza> and you will have a decent number of listeners > 3km or so
[12:56] <Brace> mattbrejza: really?
[12:57] <fsphil> normally the winds will carry it east
[12:57] <Brace> that's good to know
[12:57] <fsphil> west wales to east england is probably the widest bit of land you can get in the uk
[12:57] <mattbrejza> either the wind is bad, in which case dont launch, or the wind is good and you have a massive target
[12:57] <HixWork> NOTAMS should be easy away from Cardiff or Valley too
[12:57] <mattbrejza> while at cam you can easily slightly underfill and get wet
[13:01] <Brace> HixWork: can't see why it'd be a problem at Cardiff
[13:01] <Brace> it's not like they actually have any flights from that dive they call an airport
[13:02] <Brace> and St Athan's is basically mothballed these days
[13:03] <fsphil> last time I went to Cardiff I had to fly to Bristol
[13:04] <Brace> fsphil: yup, that's normal, I normally go to Bristol
[13:05] <fsphil> flybe still fly to cardiff
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[13:11] <Brace> fsphil: I'm probably overstating the case a bit, but it's not exactly doing well
[13:12] <fsphil> yea I don't doubt it
[13:16] <HixWork> from the CAA's point of view Cardiff is still anactive Class A piece of airspace
[13:16] <HixWork> regardless if it's used or not, they'll see it that way
[13:16] <HixWork> I reckon
[13:17] <Brace> heh
[13:18] <Brace> they're a bunch of spoilsports
[13:18] <HixWork> with POWEEEEER! ;p
[13:23] <fsphil> ah crap, http://hourly.sanslogic.co.uk/
[13:23] <fsphil> Inverness
[13:24] <gonzo_> We had a NOTAM issued quite close to bournemouth/solent. But the limitation was, we could only launch when the winds were away from that airspace
[13:25] <HixWork> chrisstubbs has the same, he's not too far from City and Stansted so can only lauch with a SW wind
[13:29] <gonzo_> we were very lucky to have actually got the req wind direction and launched. As the winds ate 95% of the time in the not-allowed direction
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[14:06] <willdude123> Anybody know why my MAX6 Ublox module breakout isn't fitting into my breadboard>
[14:06] <willdude123> Or do I need female-male jumper wires?
[14:07] <craag> Wrong spacing on the pins?
[14:09] <willdude123> craag: Why would there be?
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[14:10] <craag> Or are the pins too big for the holes?
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[14:11] <mfa298> if the spacing is correct it might need careful application of pressure. I've got a couple of similar things which take some pressure to go into breadboard and there's several pins to go in at the same time
[14:11] <mattbrejza> hey craag dont suppose youve worked out what PA you intend to put on the front of your DDS?
[14:12] <craag> mattbrejza: Not really. I was going to have a go at one of SM0VPOs designs with a couple of BC547s.
[14:12] <craag> Haven't actually constructed an RF amp before..
[14:12] <willdude123> It won't actually fit on my breadboard with the NTX2, so I might get some female-male jumper wires.
[14:13] Nick change: Troll_Academy -> Laurenceb
[14:13] <mattbrejza> i suppose yours could be class E
[14:13] <mattbrejza> i was going to see what i could geneate with a high speed DAC, but i would need something linear
[14:14] <mattbrejza> also 10mW is nothing, could almost use an opamp
[14:15] <willdude123> Looks like you can't get female male jumper wires.
[14:16] <craag> mm, I was thinking for the 250mW databuoy in the databuoy band, just a simple class C amp.
[14:17] <mattbrejza> oh ok, i was looking at 27MHz ISM
[14:17] <craag> But for hab stuff, yeah 10mW perfectly well could be an opamp.
[14:18] <mattbrejza> the last HF thing i did was class E
[14:18] <Darkside> i got 40mW with a AD8008
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[14:18] <craag> class e looks quite exotic..
[14:18] <Darkside> class E's are nice
[14:19] <Darkside> but not for 10mW
[14:19] <Darkside> :P
[14:19] <Darkside> bit overkill
[14:19] <craag> Darkside: What freq were you using with the ad8008?
[14:19] <Darkside> 40m
[14:19] <mattbrejza> it was a right pain getting the output components right for class E
[14:19] <craag> Ah nice.
[14:19] <Darkside> anyway, i have some VN66's that i want to make a Class E amp out of
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[14:19] <Darkside> mattbrejza: oh?
[14:20] <Darkside> i found some good existing designs for amateur band output filters
[14:20] <Darkside> wound my own toroids, and found the caps i needed easily enough
[14:20] <mattbrejza> i just did the design out of a text book
[14:20] <Darkside> winding toroids is a pain
[14:20] <mattbrejza> also the 5th order filter was being annoying too
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[14:21] <mattbrejza> i might just use a AD8008 this time :P
[14:21] <Darkside> heh
[14:21] <Darkside> if you only want 40mw..
[14:21] <mattbrejza> not even that
[14:21] <mattbrejza> silly ism regulations
[14:21] <craag> Only allowed 10mw
[14:21] <Darkside> i can get 600mW with a 5V supply from my circuit
[14:21] <Darkside> 6W with 12V
[14:21] <Darkside> and thats only class D
[14:22] <mattbrejza> class D RF?
[14:22] <Darkside> 85% efficiency
[14:22] <mattbrejza> although 40m is barely RF
[14:22] <Darkside> which isn't that good for a class D
[14:22] <mattbrejza> nearer DC :P
[14:22] <Darkside> lol
[14:22] <mattbrejza> after i can only get 10% DC on 869 it looks like i might try the other extreme
[14:22] <Darkside> i designed a atmega32u4 + ad9834 based HF data TX for a uni project
[14:23] <craag> bbl
[14:23] <Darkside> still need to fly this tranmitter at 5W someday
[14:23] <Darkside> need to be careful with the failure modes though
[14:23] <Darkside> open circuit: fine
[14:23] <Darkside> short circuit: FETs blow up
[14:23] <fsphil> goes from radio signals to smoke signals?
[14:23] <Darkside> yup
[14:23] <mattbrejza> antennas are a bit of a pain at 27MHz
[14:24] <Darkside> wat
[14:24] <Darkside> vertical dipole
[14:24] <Darkside> i flew a verticle dipole on 40m
[14:24] <Darkside> so don't complain
[14:24] <mattbrejza> was more thinking reciever side
[14:24] <Darkside> fracker was 20m long
[14:24] <Darkside> 1/4 wave monopole
[14:24] <Darkside> bit over 2.5m high
[14:24] <Darkside> or just find any random 27mhz CB antenna
[14:25] <mattbrejza> true
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[14:25] <Darkside> when i flew the 40m one we used a mobile whip for msot of the flight
[14:25] <mattbrejza> i want to see if you can use the 300kHz band at only 10mW
[14:25] <mattbrejza> path loss should suggest its doable
[14:25] <Darkside> with a decent antenna
[14:25] <Darkside> and decent at that band is... hard
[14:26] <mfa298> lots of options for CB antennas and they can be pretty cheap, several of which can be tuned for different frequencies.
[14:26] <Darkside> 500m long lol
[14:26] <mattbrejza> also not sure how multipath and fading will turn out
[14:27] <mattbrejza> could turn the whip into a yagi by carefully positioning 2m poles on the ground in a line
[14:27] <Darkside> i dont think multipath will be a problem
[14:27] <mattbrejza> might work...
[14:27] <Darkside> not with LOS
[14:28] <mattbrejza> also gonna have to work out which SDR works best at 27MHz
[14:28] <Darkside> heh
[14:28] <mattbrejza> after the 820s are supposed to be crap at 434MHz
[14:28] <Darkside> use a real radio
[14:28] <willdude123> In the ublox test script, what does the output mean?
[14:28] <Darkside> like an 817 or something
[14:28] <mattbrejza> maybe i wont start at using 300kHz
[14:28] <willdude123> I am getting things like:
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[14:28] <willdude123> $GPGSA,A,3,15,18,24,26,,,,,,,,,4.42,2.55,3.61*09
[14:28] <mfa298> FCD+ seemed to be as good at recieving on 20m as my 817
[14:28] <fsphil> the 817 isn't all that sensitive < 500khz
[14:29] <Darkside> fsphil: yeah FCD++ would be good
[14:29] <mattbrejza> 300kHz BW
[14:29] <fsphil> yes it's much better
[14:29] <Darkside> ok sleep time for me
[14:29] <Darkside> midnight here
[14:29] <fsphil> ack, forgot to order rg58 again
[14:29] <x-f> willdude123, 3D fix, looking good!
[14:30] <mfa298> not sure what would be good for <500kHz that probably gets interesting for all sorts of things.
[14:30] <mattbrejza> niht
[14:30] <mattbrejza> night even
[14:30] <willdude123> x-f: Huh?
[14:31] <fsphil> worth getting better than RG58 for HF?
[14:31] <mattbrejza> well the time signal is at 60kHz
[14:32] <mfa298> willdude123: you might find the info on http://aprs.gids.nl/nmea/ helps.
[14:33] <mfa298> fsphil: I think RG58 is probably good for HF unless you're running stupid power
[14:33] <mfa298> stupid being >100W
[14:33] <fsphil> mfa298: 100W max
[14:33] <fsphil> will get some, it's good and cheap
[14:34] <mfa298> I think RG58 is good for at least 100w, I've used it for 100w and not had an issue
[14:34] <mfa298> although usually that's only radio <-> tuner so it's had a good match on it.
[14:35] <willdude123> mfa: So has $GPGLL,5115.38400,N,00110.23336,W,143417.00,A,A*77
[14:35] <fsphil> I'm planning on putting the tuner out in the shed next to the antenna
[14:35] <willdude123> That got an actual lat/long position in it?
[14:35] <gonzo_> that's the place for it phil
[14:35] <gonzo_> mine is in a box on a pole
[14:35] <mfa298> fsphil: that's probably good, I've tented to run ladderline to a dipole/doublet (ex G5RV)
[14:35] <willdude123> mfa298: What does that sentence mean?
[14:36] <gonzo_> used to have a dipole, but there's a cb vert on the pole now, wuith the matching copils removed,
[14:37] <fsphil> that's basically my setup
[14:37] <Randomskk> willdude123: yes. https://maps.google.com/maps?q=%4051.2564,-1.17055
[14:37] <fsphil> CB vertical
[14:37] <willdude123> mfa298: Oh don't wory now, I've read the thing.
[14:37] <mfa298> willdude123: you should be able to work it out if you find gpgll on the page I linked earlier
[14:37] <willdude123> I feel stupid now.
[14:37] <fsphil> I'm a bit limited on how long I can make the ground radials
[14:37] <willdude123> I just announced my location to the whole channel.
[14:37] <gonzo_> yep. A convenient way of buying an ali vertical ant with all the mounting bits
[14:38] <Randomskk> as an aside, maybe avoid posting what is presumably your home location on a public irc
[14:38] <gonzo_> won't bhe long before you are doing that to the world, on spacenear
[14:38] <willdude123> Randomskk: I sure will.
[14:39] <UpuWork> willdude123 http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm#GLL
[14:39] <UpuWork> the sentence you're interested in is GPGGA
[14:39] <UpuWork> http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm#GGA
[14:40] <UpuWork> you have a lock it seems
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[15:10] <UpuWork> who's is STS project ?
[15:10] <UpuWork> Radim duh
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[15:16] <craag> Hmm 300 KHz could be interesting.
[15:16] <HixWork> is there a way to control the tstop layer in eagle when creating footprints?
[15:17] <HixWork> with the pitch and size of pads i've got on the specsheet the tstop ends up pretty much touching
[15:17] <Randomskk> it's okay for tstop to touch
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[15:17] <Randomskk> but yes, pad settings include the stop settings
[15:19] <Randomskk> just bear in mind that fab houses' tolerances on stop layers are not infinitely precise and if you make your apertures too small they might not line up with the pads and cause more issues than had they been too big
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[15:22] <HixWork> I was concerned about bridging if the tstop is too close together
[15:23] <HixWork> here is how it looks, pads are 0.5mm pitch and 0.28mm width http://i.imgur.com/bbSyl5E.png
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[15:35] <Laurenceb> http://www.domainsmoon.com/ajm.html
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[16:21] <arko> Mornin
[16:24] <willdude123> Good afternoon.
[16:25] <willdude123> Laurenceb: Whatever that is, that's a really badly designed website.
[16:26] <Laurenceb> looks legit to me
[16:27] <willdude123> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/sci.math.research/Ud_mTC-jGlw
[16:27] <willdude123> Sorry for the long URL.
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[16:35] <willdude123> Laurenceb: I highly doubt it.
[16:35] <willdude123> Their formatting requirements are so strict.]
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[16:41] <willdude123> Anyone know how to only poll the ublox 6 for the latitude and longitude?
[16:44] <mfa298> willdude123: searching for the datasheet is likely to be the way to go
[16:44] <craag> willdude123: You can either parse the NMEA, or use the UBX protocol to poll it.
[16:44] <craag> As mfa298 says, the datasheet is your friend :)
[16:45] <craag> Specifically the one that says 'Receiver Protocol description' or something like that.
[16:48] <willdude123> Okay.
[16:48] <willdude123> Right.
[16:49] <_markh_> willdude123: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox6 Halfway down it tells you how to turn off most messages, leaving only GPGGA
[16:50] <willdude123> Oh, I see, that's under the Hardware serial bit so I didn't see.
[16:50] <willdude123> So instead of: GPS.print("$PUBX,41,1,0007,0003,4800,0*13\r\n");
[16:50] <willdude123> We put Serial.print("$PUBX,40,GLL,0,0,0,0*5C\r\n");
[16:51] <craag> The first one looks like it's setting the GPS to 4800 baud?
[16:51] <craag> If so, you'll still need that one.
[16:52] <craag> Btw: If you scroll down further on the wiki page, there's a bit about how to poll the GPS with a PUBX message.
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[16:52] <willdude123> Okay.
[16:53] <willdude123> With GPS as opposed to serial?
[16:54] <craag> Yeah, that's just what you've called your serial interface in the code.
[16:56] <willdude123> Where should it go?
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[16:57] <craag> Erm
[16:57] <craag> You're using software serial, so you change the baudrate down to 4800 right?
[16:57] <cuddykid> got the hexacopter back! One arm has damage, others are remarkably fine
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[16:57] <craag> cuddykid: Great, how did you do it??
[16:58] <willdude123> Yes, that's in the code.
[16:58] <cuddykid> craag: got a local tree guy to climb up :)
[16:58] <cuddykid> fortunately it didn't rain on the equipment over night
[16:58] <craag> willdude123: So after that you want to disable the NMEA messages.
[16:58] <craag> Then inside your main loop you want to poll it.
[16:59] <willdude123> Okay.
[16:59] <craag> cuddykid: Awesome. Did you say it was on autonomous before you crashed it?
[17:00] <cuddykid> craag: yeah, was doing auto mission great, then it came to near the end and it just started to fly off (in wrong direction) - switched back to manual but it was pretty high and far away so lost orientation and smashed into the biggest (and only!) tree around
[17:01] <cuddykid> there's a compass calibration bug in the ardupilot code atm as others have been experiencing similar issues
[17:01] <craag> Ah ardupilot, nice!
[17:02] <willdude123> craag: So I poll the GPS and wait a second or so before Serial.write(GPS.read());
[17:02] <willdude123> ?
[17:04] <craag> willdude123: Yeah try that first. There's also a function that you can use to check how many bytes are in the buffer from the GPS, so you can see exactly when it's replied.
[17:06] <willdude123> Nah, I get nothing back.
[17:08] <_markh_> willdude123: If you're using SoftwareSerial, I'd stronly advise you to read the stuff at http://arduiniana.org/libraries/newsoftserial/
[17:08] <_markh_> Using 4800 baud isn't a good idea
[17:08] <willdude123> The code does.
[17:09] <willdude123> *uses it
[17:09] <_markh_> Well, you end up hanging around for long periods of time in your ISR
[17:09] <_markh_> (The ISR used by SoftwareSerial)
[17:11] <craag> _markh_: Are you saying he should use faster or slower? People have had success with 4800 baud.
[17:12] <craag> I haven't used softwareserial myself.
[17:12] <willdude123> This is my edited version of Upu's code http://pastie.org/7389316
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[17:15] <willdude123> Just read that Ublox 6 is better with UART hardware serial. I'll ask Upu about that when he's around.
[17:16] <_markh_> Well, I use the UBlox 6 with SoftwareSerial just fine.
[17:17] <_markh_> The code you've posted can't work properly as GPS.available() indicates there's data
[17:17] <_markh_> then you wait 1 second and read, There'll be more than 63 vytes (Software Serial has a buffer limit of 63 bytes)
[17:18] <_markh_> so you'll alwats get an overflow (use GPS.overflow() to check)
[17:20] <_markh_> I use TinyGPS in conjunction with UBlox 6 and Software Serial. Code fragment at http://pastebin.com/LTjAVg2t
[17:23] <willdude123> bjhttp://pastebin.com/LTjAVg2t
[17:23] <willdude123> Sorry
[17:26] <willdude123> I'll look into that.
[17:27] <_markh_> I allow the UBlox to give me GPGGA and GPRMS sentences for TGPS.
[17:28] <_markh_> Throttle back the frequency of navigation messages if you need to...
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[17:40] <arko> fsphil: http://www.layerone.org/speakers/#arko
[17:40] <arko> got it fixed, now just says above 100kft
[17:40] <willdude123> Arrgh.
[17:41] <willdude123> I'm getting messed up GPGLL sentences.
[17:41] <willdude123> $GPGLL,,,,,174040.00,V,N*4C
[17:42] <x-f> it's not messed up, you probably removed the power and it lost the lock
[17:43] <willdude123> So how do I get the lock again>
[17:43] <x-f> you wait :)
[17:44] <number10> make sure the gps has a good view of the sky willdude123
[17:44] <x-f> depends on your location - outside or closer to the window it would get it quite quickly
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[17:46] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[17:46] <x-f> hello
[17:48] <willdude123> Grrf.
[17:48] <willdude123> Still can't get a lock, by the looks of it.
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[17:50] <Lunar_Lander> which GPS willdude123 ?
[17:50] <x-f> "good things come to those who wait""
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[17:51] <willdude123> Yay.
[17:51] <willdude123> Lock.
[17:51] <willdude123> :)
[17:54] <willdude123> Now I know what torture sat navs have to go through in cars. :)
[17:56] <craag> In developing your payload you'll spend a good deal of time waiting for a GPS lock :P
[17:58] <x-f> true :)
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[18:01] <willdude123> craag: I'm not building a payload, per se.
[18:02] <craag> Ah ok. Well it applies to pretty much any device that relies on GPS :)
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[18:41] <eroomde> yoyo
[18:42] <lz1dev> yoyos are great bit of fun
[18:43] <arko> yooo
[18:44] <arko> going from VHDL to Verilog is weird...
[18:44] <lz1dev> :D
[18:51] <fsphil> Going from weird to weirder
[18:54] <willdude123> Great, I can receive telemetry from my gps and I can transmit RTTY, now I just need to combine them.
[18:54] <jonsowman> nice!
[18:54] <jonsowman> good work
[18:54] <lz1dev> voltron!
[18:54] <arko> woot!
[18:54] <willdude123> Combining them could be hard.
[18:55] <fsphil> not as much as you'd think
[18:55] <fsphil> although there are a few traps
[18:56] <willdude123> Like tying to merge two bits of code together, and creating an unworkable mess?
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:56] <willdude123> *trying
[18:56] <fsphil> no :p
[18:57] <fsphil> part of the trick of programming is learning how to keep things separated
[18:57] <jonsowman> willdude123: it's only software, you can quite easily fix mistakes
[18:57] <fsphil> unless it's a self-driving car
[18:57] <willdude123> I'll think about what I need to do.
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[18:57] <jonsowman> * NB: does not apply once launched
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[18:58] <fsphil> I'm surprised nobody's done OTA firmware updates :)
[18:58] <willdude123> fsphil: Exactly what I was thinking.
[18:58] <willdude123> I should have done an April Fools' payload
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, xD Knight Rider
[18:59] <willdude123> Pretending it actually existed.
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[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> nothing happening
[20:03] <fsphil> you can't see it?
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> where?
[20:04] <fsphil> ah man
[20:04] <fsphil> you're missing out
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:11] <HixPad> Highaltitude went under the radar :)
[20:12] <HixPad> Below sealevel as it were
[20:12] <fsphil> I sea what you did there
[20:13] <HixPad> Ah you've surfaced
[20:13] Action: fsphil waves
[20:14] <HixPad> Bah
[20:15] Action: mfa298 wonders what will bubble up next
[20:16] <HixPad> Something will wash ashore
[20:16] <HixPad> That looks such a bad word
[20:16] <x-f> Kraken is making a very strange path
[20:17] <eroomde> linky?
[20:17] <HixPad> Land ho
[20:17] <x-f> https://www.thecraag.com/kraken/
[20:17] <HixPad> track.poseidon.sgsphysics.co.uk
[20:19] <eroomde> is it periodic with tides?
[20:20] <HixPad> Seems to be and NE wind
[20:20] <HixPad> Your logger all sorted eroomde ?
[20:20] <lz1dev> /fq 13
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[20:28] <eroomde> HixPad: nothing new
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> is Upu on?
[20:29] <Upu> Evening Lunar
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> hi
[20:30] <Upu> evening
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for sending out the GPS units :)
[20:30] <Upu> more than welcome thanks for paying for them
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> :) you're welcome
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> might even need one more chip unit
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> but not now
[20:30] <Upu> fine I made some more today
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> the new version?
[20:32] <Upu> yours was an old one sorry last one i had
[20:32] <Upu> its just the same but doens't have SCL/SA
[20:32] <Upu> SDA
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> no problem
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> I only need the serial port :)
[20:32] <Upu> yep
[20:32] <Upu> any new ones will be the new style
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[20:53] <craag> What benefit does a synchronised start give you over the sliding window?
[20:54] <mattbrejza> computation effort
[20:54] <mattbrejza> so maybe not so much of an issue here
[20:54] <craag> mm
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[20:55] <craag> Also means we can have transmitters without gps/rtc.
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[20:55] <mattbrejza> if you have a start sequence it doesnt need a rtc?
[20:56] <craag> start sequence?
[20:57] <mattbrejza> well when you transmit $% thats the start of the string, thats what the decoder looks out for
[20:57] <Upu> PYSY really needs some checking in the code
[20:57] <Upu> :)
[20:57] <craag> true
[20:57] <craag> bbl
[20:59] <mattbrejza> hmm whats going on there
[20:59] <Upu> deleted
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[21:02] <Upu> Evening Mark glad it worked
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, why the PYSY code?
[21:04] <Upu> I think they are uploading positions where they don't have a lock
[21:04] <S_Mark> Hey Upu, yeah all back up and running now, thanks very much! Had a bit of a panic, I have a new mac and must be running a different version of the Arduino IDE than my windows PC - it was giving the same 99.999 results when flashed using the mac but works great on the PC.
[21:05] <S_Mark> Gunna make a new video tomorrow lol, tracker and tracking
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[21:05] <Upu> ok cool :)
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[21:07] <S_Mark> This prediction isn't great though http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=25ee8ac40740873b3be19e6e8066e906dfae2346
[21:08] <S_Mark> Usually land around Oxford or Guildford, not Hull
[21:08] <S_Mark> Hope that will changce
[21:08] <Upu> interesting
[21:09] <Upu> not seen one coming North for a while
[21:10] <S_Mark> Yeah what you reckon, likely to change?
[21:10] <jonsowman> well it's not *quite* in the sea
[21:10] <Upu> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=e27d8565980c9dced5dd512504ec86b2f5ee044a
[21:10] <Upu> if you put alot more gas in it
[21:10] <Upu> Still a hell of a drive
[21:10] <Upu> and I'm not about on Sunday to recover it for you
[21:11] <Upu> it will change, which way and how much is who knows
[21:11] <S_Mark> Ah yeah you are that way aren't you! Yeah I think if it was anything past like Nottingham we might have to abort
[21:12] <Upu> yeah thats about an hour and half from here
[21:12] <Upu> check again on Friday
[21:12] <Upu> too early at the moment
[21:12] <S_Mark> I have the hourly running on the pi now
[21:12] <Upu> ok :)
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[21:13] <S_Mark> http://predictor.stratodean.co.uk/ Don't all go on it else you might kill it lol http://predictor.stratodean.co.uk/
[21:13] <S_Mark> oops\
[21:13] <Upu> I won't click it
[21:13] <S_Mark> haha
[21:14] <S_Mark> Have a look, its a strange 'male' shape at the moment
[21:14] <Upu> you have indeed drawn a penis
[21:15] <Upu> http://hourly.upuaut.net/
[21:15] <mattbrejza> http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/hSbE0.gif
[21:15] <S_Mark> Haha
[21:15] <Upu> lol
[21:16] <jonsowman> thanks mattbrejza
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> meh
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> 160 km crossrange on the predictor
[21:18] <lz1dev> the good ol' penis shapped flight path
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[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[21:24] <fsphil> oh dear
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[21:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> Wow might have to give this ago on chase vehicle routes! http://hyperlapse.tllabs.io/
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[22:11] <chrisstubbs> hah thats cool. but the animation is already making me feel ill :P
[22:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> The video is excellent, but yes the 60 frame demo cab be a bit repetitive!
[22:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> *can
[22:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> Now if only SV actually had the balloons in sight!
[22:14] <chrisstubbs> sounds like a job for a roofrack, SLR with a big lens and HABrotate :P
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[22:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> There's a thought!
[22:16] <craag> Hehe, we did think about putting up a webcam stream of a telescope tracking a hab flight.
[22:17] <craag> But then we realised we would save some bandwidth by providing the text 'clouds!' instead!
[22:17] <chrisstubbs> lol
[22:24] <griffonbot> Received email: John Couto "[UKHAS] Altitude control with valve"
[22:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> I wonder how light one of these could be made ... then Pano's from a flight might be easily possible http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6xY6DfD8Kw
[22:26] <craag> Would still be cool to try with a telescope on a suitable day, although I suspect habrotate wouldn't be quite accurate enough.
[22:29] <arko> wass up
[22:31] <chrisstubbs> reminds me of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UytSNlHw8J8
[22:31] <chrisstubbs> oh wow its an 808 cam
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[22:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> And an alarm for location when its landed as well ;-)
[22:40] <arko> hahaha
[22:40] <arko> the ending is great
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[23:38] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Altitude control with valve"
[23:42] <griffonbot> Received email: Dan Bowen "Re: [UKHAS] Altitude control with valve"
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[00:00] --- Wed Apr 10 2013