highaltitude.log.20130402

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[00:00] <arko> ?
[00:01] <arko> ha!
[00:01] <arko> so now
[00:01] <SpeedEvil> if the distance to the balloon and your friend are not the same
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[00:01] <arko> i plugged in the altitude it actually burst it
[00:01] <arko> 21456m ish
[00:02] <arko> the diameter would have been 3.2m
[00:02] <arko> a whole 1.2m larger
[00:02] <arko> but then it would have risen too fast!
[00:03] <arko> hmm i need to do futher work, i think this is a big janky, doesn't explain diameter if the mixture was bad
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[00:28] <arko> ha! threw a picture of it tied up into illustrator
[00:28] <arko> used a known distance
[00:28] <arko> my height
[00:28] <arko> scaled the picture
[00:28] <arko> ~1.8m diameter
[00:29] <arko> no where near 3.2m (which would have given us a 21456m)!
[00:29] <arko> promising, but not exactly all too scientifically sound..
[00:30] <arko> but if the helium to air ratio was wrong, in order to get the necklift we had, it would have had to been much much larger!
[00:30] <arko> >2.0m
[00:38] <Lunar_Lander> you're doing photogrammetry :)?
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[01:15] <Rob_Someone> Does smoking weed count here?
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[01:23] <arko> for what?
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[01:34] <nigelvh> That was an odd question... Though I suppose it was probably a joke on the "high" part of "highaltitude"
[01:35] <arko> ohh
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[02:03] <hyde00001>
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[03:42] <arko> http://www.flickr.com/photos/arkorobotics/sets/72157633147095080/
[03:42] <arko> there we go, all the pictures for the public
[04:04] <meatmanek> hot pink: good idea.
[04:05] <meatmanek> white things are surprisingly hard to spot.
[04:06] <meatmanek> the only reason we were able to recover our first balloon was that it had red duct tape around it
[04:07] <meatmanek> otherwise it probably would have looked like every other white/light grey rock around
[04:18] <nigelvh> Yes, we just use pink insulation foam board.
[04:18] <nigelvh> Intrinsically pink.
[04:25] <nigelvh> I'm watching the old Junkyard Wars show, and listening to those British sayings is quite entertaining.
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[04:29] <nigelvh> Like "bodger" and "double quick"
[04:31] <nigelvh> and something that sounded like "winkle piggers"
[05:09] <griffonbot> Received email: Costyn van Dongen "Re: [UKHAS] Strange wind forecasts..."
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[05:38] <Upu> Arko that payload is Upu Approved colour scheme
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[06:18] <fsphil> nigelvh: it's originally called Scrapheap Challange
[06:19] <fsphil> arko: you've out-pinked Upu
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[06:24] <arko> :)
[06:24] <arko> i almost went blind painting it
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[06:30] <fsphil> there seems to be pointy things near the balloon arko, coming out of the neck
[06:30] <fsphil> http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8241/8611276957_e3d1752112_o.jpg
[06:30] <fsphil> what are they?
[06:31] <eroomde> murder-ties?
[06:31] <fsphil> they do look like it
[06:31] <arko> zip ties and rope
[06:31] <arko> those shouldn't have popped it.. right?
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[06:32] <eroomde> depends. if it was busy up there from a turbulent pov, then those murder-ties might have done their job
[06:32] <eroomde> 20km can be busy
[06:32] <eroomde> this is about 20ish km
[06:32] <eroomde> http://vimeo.com/1598522
[06:33] <arko> are you calling them murder-ties for a reason?
[06:34] <arko> omg
[06:34] <arko> this is why it popped early isnt it
[06:34] <fsphil> it's a possibility
[06:35] <arko> damn.. i was really hoping to prove it was bad
[06:35] <arko> i didnt notice this part
[06:35] <arko> i was busy preping the payload, the balloon team was filling and roping
[06:36] <arko> #$*@#*^%(@#*%\
[06:36] <eroomde> it's plausible
[06:36] <eroomde> i am perhaps being slightly on the side of subjectivity by calling them murder-ties
[06:36] <arko> lots of turbulence
[06:37] <eroomde> but we do usually chop them flush and cover them in tape
[06:37] <arko> i should have checked them
[06:37] <arko> uggg
[06:37] <arko> im so stupid
[06:37] <arko> >_<
[06:43] <griffonbot> @amarttinez: RT @daveake: Portable tracking station in an unused Peli case http://t.co/Hr7IcegCPQ #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/amarttinez/status/318976989769891840]
[06:45] <eroomde> arko: will be interesting to see what comes back when you find it
[06:45] <eroomde> especially what state the balloon is in
[06:45] <arko> yeah
[06:46] <arko> we are going to recover it next weekend
[06:46] <arko> not this upcoming weekend
[06:46] <arko> but the next
[06:46] <arko> there is going to be a meeting this weekend with the Search and Rescue folks
[06:46] <arko> then it's going to be off to the desert the next weekend
[06:46] <fsphil> this puts my mountain trek into context
[06:46] <fsphil> I only had to walk 2 km
[06:48] <arko> 1km is our radius of landing estimate
[06:49] <fsphil> the shocking pink should definitely help
[06:50] <arko> yeah
[06:50] <arko> im pretty sure we are getting it back
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[07:50] <costyn> arko: I've leared that you snip off any remaining bits from the zipties, then tape them over with duct-tape so there's no pointy bits anywhere
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[07:54] <arko> Yeah, i really should haave kept my eye on kore than just getting the payload ready
[07:57] <arko> More
[07:58] <arko> Ha, got the landing site down pretty tight
[07:58] <arko> I think about 0.25km diameter
[07:58] <arko> Worst case of 1km
[07:59] <arko> I just need to have my error calc checked
[08:00] <radim_OM2AMR> morning to all, ping UpuWork :-)
[08:18] <fsphil> that's not bad
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[08:26] <UpuWork> moring radim_OM2AMR
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[08:36] <costyn> someone made a low altitude panorama from our video footage https://revspace.nl/images/5/50/HAB_view_cylindrical.jpg
[08:36] <radim_OM2AMR> UpuWork, just one question as usual :-)
[08:37] <radim_OM2AMR> I have trouble with uBlox init settings, I tested your demo script, it looks it doesn't accept init hex sequence
[08:39] <radim_OM2AMR> $PUB messages to disable some sentences work fine
[08:41] <radim_OM2AMR> I have only one difference from your code - I'm using just one serial as Arduino says SoftwareSerial is not available on 4 MHz..
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[08:50] <UpuWork> yes do use hardware serial :)
[08:50] <UpuWork> 1 sec
[08:50] <UpuWork> https://github.com/Upuaut/Ava/blob/master/fc0334_PavaR7_PAVA_550/fc0334_PavaR7_PAVA_550.ino
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[08:50] <UpuWork> see lines 219-225
[08:52] <radim_OM2AMR> oh, NMEA off :-)
[08:52] <costyn> UpuWork: why is this more reliable?
[08:52] <UpuWork> that what you're after ?
[08:52] <radim_OM2AMR> so serial buffer will be free of unnecessary NMEA messages during init
[08:53] <UpuWork> that is subject to acknowledgement
[08:53] <UpuWork> whereas the PUBX commands aren't
[08:53] <UpuWork> also it does it in one line so is quicker
[08:53] <costyn> ah
[08:54] <UpuWork> Turning off all GPS NMEA strings apart on the uBlox module
[08:54] <UpuWork> apart on ?
[08:54] <UpuWork> nice comment
[08:54] <costyn> yea was wondering what the intention was there :)
[08:54] <UpuWork> turns off all NMEA strings
[08:54] <costyn> well the intention with the comment :)
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[09:05] Nick change: Thorn__ -> Thorn
[09:05] <radim_OM2AMR> nice UpuWork, I'll try it , thanks for advice
[09:05] <UpuWork> nps
[09:06] <HixWork> if you are given an eagle .brd file and no sch is it possible to create a linked schematic from it or is it dead linkwise?
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[09:08] <griffonbot> Received email: Andrew Myatt "[UKHAS] Proposed launch of AURA & AURA2"
[09:08] <UpuWork> no you can't do it that way round Hix not that I'm aware of anyway
[09:09] <HixWork> thought that was the case, I was given a brd file but no accompanying sch file. Oh well. guess its a case of manually creating it again
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[09:13] <Brace> HixWork: sorry to rub it in, but the ice climbing at the weekend was ****ing excellent, clear blue skies, fat ice and first on the route
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[09:18] <HixWork> Brace :/
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[11:01] <griffonbot> @Peli_uk: RT @daveake: Portable tracking station in an unused Peli case http://t.co/ogHUwoe2SW #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/Peli_uk/status/319041925132988416]
[11:01] <daveake> hah
[11:02] <daveake> do I get a free case now? :p
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[11:03] <costyn> nice
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[11:05] <anerDev> hallo guys !
[11:05] <anerDev> the predicotr have a problem ! Like a april foolfish
[11:05] <anerDev> http://d.pr/i/qYD7
[11:05] <anerDev> uhauahhua
[11:05] <eroomde> dietary complaint?
[11:07] <fsphil> now you're just being foolfish eroomde
[11:08] <costyn> anerDev: heheh
[11:08] <anerDev> auhuhauh
[11:08] <anerDev> but why ?!?
[11:08] <daveake> noooo not a fishpun thread .......
[11:08] Action: daveake walks away from keyboard
[11:08] <costyn> we've haddock too many of those already the past few weeks
[11:08] <eroomde> i'd fell gill-ty about too many fishpuns
[11:08] <eroomde> we should fin-ish now before it's too late
[11:09] <costyn> anerDev: april 1st joke :)
[11:09] <anerDev> ahuauh
[11:09] <anerDev> ophhsss
[11:09] <anerDev> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=5f73230158b937498d739add9e7a434466a1352e
[11:10] <anerDev> whatch where the ballon drop down ! uhahuahua
[11:10] <costyn> anerDev: splash!
[11:10] <anerDev> ahuauhahuau
[11:10] <anerDev> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=89a5638b59ab9e3a6db7a191d36d6532b09979f2
[11:10] <eroomde> anti-acids, seriously
[11:10] <eroomde> they'll sort you right out
[11:10] <anerDev> when help me ! watch O.0 HAUHAUHUA
[11:11] <eroomde> i'm trying to help you
[11:11] <costyn> hehehe
[11:11] <anerDev> seriously, when this foolfish finish ?!?
[11:11] <eroomde> i often ask myself
[11:11] <costyn> eroomde: he does sound like he's in pain
[11:11] <anerDev> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=fa387ee6336b5c63bbf696abfd160f3c3b849c77
[11:11] <anerDev> fuckoff, I will try tomorrow ! uhahuahua
[11:11] <costyn> anerDev: you can click on the red link in the top left
[11:11] <eroomde> or just milk
[11:11] <costyn> anerDev: it will take you to your actual prediction
[11:11] <eroomde> let us end the foolfish together
[11:12] <anerDev> ohh uahhuhuahuahuahuahu
[11:12] <fsphil> that's batter
[11:12] <eroomde> if there's blood in it, see a doctor immediately
[11:12] <costyn> anerDev: I think we've seen enough uahahahah
[11:12] <anerDev> ahuhauhua
[11:12] <anerDev> one question guys !!
[11:13] <eroomde> all good chemists
[11:13] <costyn> are we doing fish puns or medical puns?
[11:13] Action: costyn is confused
[11:13] <anerDev> this setting are correct: GFS: GFS - lat/lon delta 3 3 - time delta: 5 h
[11:13] <eroomde> that's not a question
[11:13] <anerDev> yes is a ? (help me)
[11:14] <costyn> eroomde: forgive the guy's english ;)
[11:14] <anerDev> my eng is bad :/
[11:14] <eroomde> so is your cough
[11:14] <costyn> trololol
[11:14] <eroomde> those settings define how big a box, in space and time, the systel will download to run your prediction
[11:15] <eroomde> if you think you're likely to go outside the box (which is the delats in degrees on lat and lon), or if you think your flight will last longer than 5 hours, incease those parameters
[11:15] Action: fsphil ponders a box in spacetime. whoa
[11:15] <anerDev> box is the payload ?
[11:16] <anerDev> O.0
[11:16] <costyn> anerDev: no box is area on the map
[11:16] <anerDev> ahhh
[11:16] <anerDev> uhauhahua
[11:16] <anerDev> and gfs ? and time delta ?
[11:16] <costyn> anerDev: did you read what eroomde wrote?
[11:16] <eroomde> don't worry about gfs
[11:17] <anerDev> sorry, don't scroll down the page
[11:17] <anerDev> =D
[11:17] Action: costyn sighs
[11:18] <anerDev> but the time depend by ascent and descent speed ?
[11:18] <eroomde> yes
[11:18] <costyn> anerDev: the burst calculator will show how long your flight is
[11:18] <eroomde> but you have to calculate that really
[11:18] <eroomde> you know the ascent rate and busrt altitude in advance
[11:18] <eroomde> so you can work out th flight time
[11:18] <eroomde> roughly
[11:19] <anerDev> thank u ! =D
[11:22] <anerDev> in sicily we have a strong wind !
[11:22] <anerDev> lunch in Marsale, drop down in Ragusa
[11:22] <anerDev> 300 km !
[11:23] <costyn> anerDev: long drive
[11:23] <fsphil> 300 km isn't unusual
[11:24] <anerDev> yes, but we have roads that the speed limit is 80 km/h -__-
[11:24] <anerDev> but in UK if a ballon drop down in the sea
[11:24] <anerDev> how retrieved?
[11:24] <costyn> anerDev: usually not
[11:25] <costyn> payloads have washed up ashore at later times
[11:25] <fsphil> there have not been many launches lately for this very reason
[11:25] <anerDev> 80% time yes and 20% no ?
[11:25] <BrainDamage> https://measureandstir.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/i-should-buy-a-boat-cat.jpg
[11:25] <anerDev> ahhh ok ok !
[11:25] <costyn> anerDev: if they land in the sea, 4 out of 5 aren't seen again
[11:26] <anerDev> AUAHUAHUAHUHUAHUAHUAHUAHUHAUUHAUHHUAHUAUHHUAUHAUHAHUUHAUHAHU BrainDamage
[11:26] <fsphil> I don't think my hourly has touched land for a few months now, except for the isle of man
[11:26] <fsphil> oh ok now that's excessive
[11:26] <costyn> anerDev: yes, please stop using AHAUAHAHAH
[11:26] <costyn> (really)
[11:26] <anerDev> ok, I will use lol
[11:27] <fsphil> calm down :)
[11:27] <costyn> anerDev: better, thanks :)
[11:27] <eroomde> that's slightly less visually offensive
[11:27] <anerDev> but why I can't use ?
[11:27] <eroomde> because it's stupid
[11:27] <anerDev> ahh iok ok
[11:27] <anerDev> :)
[11:27] <eroomde> filling up everyone's IRC with shouty nonesense
[11:27] <costyn> ^^this
[11:27] <anerDev> :/
[11:27] <anerDev> guys I go to eat ! meet later
[11:27] <anerDev> and thank u
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[11:30] <costyn> eroomde: sad that he totally didn't get you were talking to him about his "cough" it was quite amusing :)
[11:30] <eroomde> I didn;t have my hopes up too high that he would
[11:31] <costyn> hehe
[11:31] <eroomde> still, nice to have him on
[11:31] <eroomde> reminds me of my days dealing with Italians at ESA
[11:31] <willdude123> Hi.
[11:31] <eroomde> (no offense BrainDamage :p )
[11:31] <costyn> hehe
[11:31] <willdude123> What does 'TX generate' in dl-fldigi do?
[11:31] <BrainDamage> I have bad feelings towards my connationals too
[11:35] <fsphil> depends where it is willdude123
[11:38] <willdude123> Under 'File'
[11:44] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "[UKHAS] Launch announcement XABEN44 - Wed 3rd / Thurs 4th."
[11:45] <costyn> seems winds are improving with the sudden onslaught of launch announcements :)
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[11:47] <fsphil> willdude123: it saves the output sounds as a wav file
[11:48] <cuddykid> looks like I may well be doing a launch on thurs now
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[11:51] Nick change: MichaelC|Sleep -> MichaelC
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[11:53] <cuddykid_> looks like a rather strong jet stream though - too slow an ascent means it goes miles away
[11:53] <costyn> cuddykid_: then you need extra stirks
[11:53] <cuddykid_> I'll have to eliminate all floaty possibility
[11:53] <cuddykid_> indeed costyn
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[11:53] Nick change: cuddykid_ -> cuddykid
[11:54] <cuddykid> if I get it right, I won't have to travel far at all :D
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[12:03] <cuddykid> hm, when someone goes "Will be able to confirm that by EOP" - what does that mean?! I take it's something to do with end of day? anyone know?
[12:06] <mattbrejza> end of play?
[12:06] <costyn> end of program? end of project? end of procedure?
[12:06] <costyn> emergency oxygen pack?
[12:06] <cuddykid> kik
[12:06] <cuddykid> lol
[12:06] <costyn> engine oil pressure?
[12:06] <kokey> are there balloon options for the kerbal space program?
[12:06] <costyn> Early Onset Periodontitis
[12:07] <costyn> ok, I'll stop now
[12:07] <kokey> I only see airship plugins
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[12:16] <costyn> fsphil: sooo... any plans for that ncurses dl-fldigi? :)
[12:17] <kokey> hehe
[12:25] <eroomde> ....|...|....
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[12:25] <eroomde> ....|...|....
[12:25] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
[12:25] <eroomde> .....|...|...
[12:25] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[12:25] <eroomde> ....|...|....
[12:25] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[12:25] <UpuWork> burst ?
[12:25] <eroomde> there you go, the ncurses waterfall
[12:25] <eroomde> it can even show drift
[12:25] <daveake> USB or LSB?
[12:25] <eroomde> yes that was burst
[12:25] <costyn> eroomde: nice
[12:25] <eroomde> well identified
[12:26] <UpuWork> is willdude123 awake ?
[12:26] <daveake> UpuWork is the font of all knowledge
[12:26] <UpuWork> bidet of all knowledge
[12:27] <costyn> haha
[12:27] <UpuWork> willdude123 Ciemon has posted your FCD it seems via Special Delivery so should be here with me tommorrow
[12:27] <BrainDamage> I wanted to find a font typeface test with the word "knowledge" but I failed :/
[12:29] <eroomde> I THINK IT'S JUST CAPSLOCK
[12:29] <eroomde> I KNOW EVERYTHING
[12:29] <eroomde> AHUAUAHAUAHHUAUAUAHUA
[12:29] <UpuWork> AUAHUAHUAHUHUAHUAHUAHUAHUHAUUHAUHHUAHUAUHHUAUHAUHAHUUHAUHAHU
[12:29] <UpuWork> damn beaten
[12:30] <UpuWork> I had to scroll back to find it
[12:30] <costyn> lol
[12:30] <eroomde> 11:11 < anerDev> seriously, when this foolfish finish ?!?
[12:31] <costyn> one wonders
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[12:41] <fsphil> costyn: been reading up on ncurses. it's .. interesting
[12:41] <costyn> I wouldn't have expected otherwise
[12:43] <fsphil> it will be easier to just take fldigi's modem and make a UI from scratch
[12:45] <costyn> depends on how much work it is :) I mean, I'm not sure a lot of people would use it
[12:46] <costyn> just a few niche cases perhaps
[12:46] <fsphil> more for fun :)
[12:46] <eroomde> and pi's?
[12:46] <costyn> well if you consider it fun ... :)
[12:47] <costyn> then by all means.
[12:48] <fsphil> having it work with the rtl-sdr directly would be cool. but over my head
[12:48] <fsphil> it would involve "complicated math"
[12:48] <costyn> that would be cool yea
[12:48] <costyn> fsphil: fft andsuch?
[12:49] <fsphil> it's an IQ signal, I'm not sure how to convert that into something fldigi's modem can use
[12:49] <fsphil> it just expects simple audio signal
[12:49] <fsphil> +a
[12:49] <eroomde> fft's not complicated!
[12:49] <craag> Could you bolt some gnuradio code to the front of it?
[12:49] <eroomde> just need to find the right way of explaining a really simple and beautiful idea
[12:50] <Randomskk> keep chasing that rainbow eroomde :P
[12:50] <costyn> fsphil: well routing around pcm data shouldn't be hard? why not include a remote control of rtl-sdr in the new gui?
[12:50] <eroomde> i was caught short by the xkcd cartoon about the mit grads applying for jobs
[12:50] <Randomskk> eroomde: MIT grads?
[12:50] <eroomde> i have started sentences in exactly that way before
[12:50] <Randomskk> you know it changes right?
[12:50] <eroomde> yes
[12:50] <eroomde> hence being specific
[12:50] <Randomskk> ah, good good
[12:50] <eroomde> it was CMU last time i went
[12:50] Action: Randomskk is running 128 cpu cores on skein
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[12:50] <mattbrejza> its not too hard to convert 1MSPS IQ signals to an audio signal
[12:50] <Randomskk> good thing it's out of teaching time
[12:51] <Randomskk> I got a 392 error result, but by the time I woke up other people had too
[12:51] <Randomskk> :(
[12:51] <mattbrejza> also i had a demodulator in java if anyone wanted to play with
[12:51] <mattbrejza> i kinda missed the start of this though
[12:51] <eroomde> Education: 'Have you every really looked at the Fourier...'
[12:52] <costyn> mattbrejza: I was egging fsphil on to make an ncurses dl-fldigi, he thought it'd be cool if it talked to rtl-sdr directly
[12:54] <mattbrejza> you could just have a web interface
[12:54] <costyn> the waterfall is the hard part
[12:54] <costyn> (it would seem to me)
[12:54] <fsphil> html5 probably has something for that
[12:54] <fsphil> do the fft in javascript :)
[12:55] <mattbrejza> yea just stream a line at a time
[12:55] <mattbrejza> and get the client to scroll it
[12:56] <fsphil> you can even play audio
[12:56] <oh7lzb> I think it might be doable already on some browsers
[12:56] <fsphil> there's no reason that websdr interface couldn't be done in javascript now
[12:56] <oh7lzb> I've been doing some crypto work in JS lately. For real.
[12:56] <craag> The webrtc api has a component for doing a waterfall iirc
[12:56] <mattbrejza> also the signal processing to go from rtlsdr output to demodulator input isnt hard, i could do it once ive worked out the drivers
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[12:56] <oh7lzb> And webgl is also nicely supported for nice accelerated graphics rendering on new browsers.
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[12:59] <oh7lzb> http://shoffing.com/pages/projects/trigvis/ http://www.chromeexperiments.com/webgl/
[12:59] <costyn> oh7lzb: cool
[13:00] <oh7lzb> If you have a webcam which works with your browser, http://www.mrdoob.com/lab/javascript/webcam/displace/
[13:00] <oh7lzb> Chrome on macbook seems to work nicely :)
[13:00] <costyn> oh7lzb: hmm on mine it asks for permission then says "webcam required"
[13:01] <griffonbot> Received email: Daniel Richman "[UKHAS] Strange predictor behaviour"
[13:01] <oh7lzb> gave permission, worked. Chrome 25.0.1364.172 on OS X 10.8
[13:02] <costyn> weird
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[13:02] <oh7lzb> Relaunched to Chrome 26, still works.
[13:04] <craag> There's some stuff with the web audio api here: http://chromium.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/audio/index.html
[13:04] <oh7lzb> http://www.storiesinflight.com/jsfft/visualizer/ for FFT
[13:05] <oh7lzb> ah, http://www.storiesinflight.com/jsfft/visualizer_webaudio/index.html works for Chrome.
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[13:05] <oh7lzb> With FFT, no waterfall, but that's a start.
[13:06] <costyn> nice
[13:06] <costyn> I see the start of something beautiful, an UKHAS developed websdr :)
[13:06] <craag> Waterfall is just a historical fft though.
[13:06] <fsphil> totally
[13:06] <oh7lzb> This is starting to look more like "easy cut 'n paste" than "impossible, needs native code"
[13:06] <fsphil> not working in firefox
[13:06] <oh7lzb> only a matter of time to have FF support
[13:07] <fsphil> yep
[13:07] <mattbrejza> surely best to do most stuff server side?
[13:07] <oh7lzb> That stuff is going to be Really Popular and get plenty of customer demand, once game developers start using that.
[13:07] <fsphil> yea the fft will have to be done server side
[13:07] <craag> mattbrejza: That's what I thought with the webrtc stuff.
[13:07] <eroomde> js is the assembly of the web
[13:07] <eroomde> i read it on HN
[13:08] <oh7lzb> Nope, you can do fft on the client.
[13:08] <Randomskk> good timing eroomde
[13:08] <eroomde> do it in js on my android's web client
[13:08] <fsphil> the audio being sent to the client will only be a small portion of the fft though
[13:08] <Randomskk> I just read this tweet :P
[13:08] <Randomskk> JavaScript isn't Assembly for the web. Assembly is JavaScript for the Silicon Object Model.
[13:08] <craag> Haven't yet found a server-side client for the webrtc yet though, everything is about peer-to-peer atm.
[13:08] <oh7lzb> Ah, if you have the audio on the server, then it's better done there, if you don't need the audio on the client for anything else.
[13:09] <eroomde> http://bit.ly/pmiGgA
[13:09] <fsphil> that's a strangely nice tune on that fft page
[13:09] <fsphil> 30 minutes is a bit much though
[13:10] <oh7lzb> I was thinking of, "plug your receiver to your computer or iphone, and open up this web page here, to decode"
[13:10] <craag> A webpage that captures mic input, performs a local waterfall/fft, then streams the audio to a server for demodulation was what I was thinking of.
[13:10] <oh7lzb> "no extra hardware needed"
[13:10] <oh7lzb> nah, no need to stream to server :)
[13:10] <eroomde> might aswell stream the fft output if you're going to the trouble of doing it locally
[13:10] <oh7lzb> won't work so nicely on 3G
[13:10] <craag> oh7lzb: If you can get javascript demod working, sure!
[13:10] <oh7lzb> craag: why not :)
[13:11] <oh7lzb> Running filters might be heavy.
[13:11] <craag> Meanwhile, matt and I were talking about putting his demodulator into... brace yourself.. a java applet
[13:11] <costyn> craag: wat... nobody uses java :P
[13:11] <oh7lzb> huh
[13:11] <eroomde> http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6fy4sei7I1qd4fu6o1_500.jpg
[13:11] <costyn> eroomde: hahahaha
[13:11] <fsphil> java? isn't that what hackers use?
[13:11] <costyn> eroomde: I was gonna say... feels like 1999
[13:12] <Randomskk> it's okay i'm already writing one in python :P
[13:12] <oh7lzb> I read somewhere that the next major java release will have an exploit API
[13:12] <costyn> haha
[13:12] <oh7lzb> the only way to make it easier to own.
[13:13] <eroomde> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dF8OTc9iZSA/UORbHgli5yI/AAAAAAAAKAw/G3Se6QJ_rCg/s1600/Ba_dum__CHING_by_Draygone.gif
[13:13] <craag> yeah, java is not ideal. But he has a working hands-off demodulator (so it doesn't need much of a UI), all that really needs doing is hooking it up to the applet audio input api, and putting a (js?) parser/uploader on the back I think.
[13:14] <mattbrejza> yea but ive already got a java class that will demod rtty nicely
[13:14] <mattbrejza> no more work needed
[13:14] <craag> :)
[13:14] <costyn> but but... java
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[13:14] <mattbrejza> yea but thats what you program android in
[13:14] <costyn> all this webgl and html5 sounded so nice.
[13:15] <eroomde> you can do android dev in C and C++
[13:15] <eroomde> especially good for DSP
[13:15] <eroomde> that's what my friends who do cvis for androind use
[13:16] <mattbrejza> yea but i started in java and it seemed to work fine, so its still in java
[13:16] <oh7lzb> Yeah, java is good for a lot of Android and server-side work. A HTML5 thing could run on all platforms with a single implementation.
[13:16] <mattbrejza> ideally it would use ints rather than double too
[13:16] <mattbrejza> but hey, it just works
[13:16] <mattbrejza> (TM)
[13:16] <eroomde> wyzat?
[13:16] <oh7lzb> (once those platforms get their implementations running)
[13:16] <eroomde> most android handsets have vector floating point ALUs now
[13:17] <mattbrejza> might not make that much difference then
[13:17] <mattbrejza> depends how well dvorak uses it i suppose
[13:17] <eroomde> lost
[13:17] <BrainDamage> I read that as flotation point, so you could bundle them in a payload with some waterproofing and hope for recovery!
[13:17] <mattbrejza> dvorak is the 'java vm' for android
[13:18] <BrainDamage> dvorak? not dalvik?
[13:18] <costyn> makes sense
[13:18] <BrainDamage> dvorak is a keyboard layout
[13:18] <mattbrejza> lol whoops
[13:18] <costyn> haha
[13:18] <eroomde> 'java... difficult to type.... hmm must be dvorak'
[13:19] <BrainDamage> ( or a composer if you're into classical music )
[13:19] <eroomde> he's still a composer even if you're not into classical music
[13:19] <mattbrejza> both words start with d and has a v in it
[13:20] <mattbrejza> and a k
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[13:20] <eroomde> devillify
[13:20] <eroomde> too slow
[13:21] <oh7lzb> I was a big fan of the "New World" symphony (No. 9) as a little kid already.
[13:21] <eroomde> in england that's called 'that hovis advert music'
[13:21] <oh7lzb> wat?
[13:22] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SwxZ5UQ8aE
[13:23] <eroomde> i'd like to say advertising today is less patronising, sickly, preposterous, and egenrally like bathing in a bath of warm sick
[13:23] <eroomde> but it isn't
[13:24] <oh7lzb> heh.
[13:25] <HixWork> I'm not a fan of the Hobis music, I much prefer that one off the Orange advert ;p
[13:25] <daveake> eroomde Did you ever see the Rochard Briers series "If you see God, tell him"?
[13:25] <daveake> i
[13:25] <eroomde> don't think so
[13:27] <daveake> Short version: Gets hit on the head with large heavy object, and the resulting brain damage leaves him with a 30-second attention span. From that point on he believes anything he sees in an advert"
[13:27] <daveake> Very funny dark comedy
[13:27] <eroomde> i shall track it down
[13:27] <daveake> I shall send it to you if you wish
[13:27] <daveake> I bought it after I saw an advert* .....
[13:27] <daveake> *lie
[13:28] <eroomde> yus pluz
[13:28] <eroomde> golly
[13:29] <eroomde> i am listenign to a piece i have heard a few times before. but i had to sit up and take notice at the speed and power of her left hand octaves. that's quite amazing
[13:29] <eroomde> http://youtu.be/jv08OinmQ8k?t=6m12s
[13:29] <daveake> taster http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6c37QgA0-k
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[14:01] <DrLuke> In case you ever wondered what's hiding beneath the can of a ublox: http://i.imgur.com/ctQPgkN.jpg
[14:02] <eroomde> more ublox
[14:02] <eroomde> it's ublox all the way down
[14:02] <DrLuke> yep
[14:02] <DrLuke> I sadly killed this one while desoldering it
[14:02] <cuddykid> wonder what's hiding beneath that ublox :)
[14:02] <DrLuke> I pulled off the pads :(
[14:03] <cuddykid> I've done that before
[14:03] <DrLuke> luckily my boss pays so I don't care :P
[14:06] <DrLuke> also, hats off to whoever made the predictor april fools joke
[14:06] <HixWork> I wish the cvould ESD shield it with something that doesnt attract solder like bears to honey
[14:07] <DrLuke> lol
[14:07] <DrLuke> works perfectls with solderpaste
[14:07] <HixWork> I doubt I'll be hand soldering one again :/
[14:08] <DrLuke> yeah I've tried that aswell
[14:10] <costyn> DrLuke: that was Randomskk and DanielRichman :)
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[14:12] <willdude123> Afternoon guys/
[14:12] <UpuWork> hey willdude123
[14:12] <UpuWork> Ciemon posted your dongle
[14:13] <willdude123> Great.
[14:14] <willdude123> Thanks.
[14:14] <costyn> this explains anerDev's foolfish http://i.imgur.com/yMrWgFb.png
[14:18] <x-f> i wondered, if something was lost in translation, when he mentioned the fish
[14:18] <costyn> apparently not... that's really what they call it there :)
[14:21] <fsphil> I thought something fishy was going on
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[14:24] <costyn> fsphil: come off it
[14:24] <costyn> been there done that
[14:24] <costyn> :P
[14:24] <x-f> catch it?
[14:25] <fsphil> this is not the plaice for this
[14:29] <costyn> fsphil: I didn't know that word :)
[14:29] <x-f> at least you hooked on it
[14:29] <eroomde> !salmon jcoxon
[14:30] Action: willdude123 slaps jcoxon with a salmon fillet
[14:30] <mfa298> you guys should really stop baiting these pun fests
[14:31] <Brace> if you can come up with some better fish puns let minnow
[14:31] <Brace> as these ones are naff
[14:32] <costyn> if I cod, I would
[14:33] <willdude123> Anyone have any good ideas about what to use an uneeded linux server for?
[14:34] <Randomskk> got much cpu?
[14:34] <craag> I'm not sure I want to be herring any more of these
[14:34] <Randomskk> I'm still crunching skein hashes for that xkcd
[14:34] <fsphil> blowfish?
[14:35] <Brace> willdude123: seti?
[14:35] <x-f> willdude123, i use mine for some basic radio astronomy related thinglets
[14:35] <eroomde> like wavelets
[14:35] <eroomde> but more abstract
[14:35] <willdude123> It's a VPS.
[14:35] <Randomskk> so are four of my twelve servers
[14:35] <willdude123> Randomskk: I think so.
[14:36] <eroomde> i give up with today. i shall go home
[14:36] <Randomskk> admittedly they are EC2 high CPU extra large instances
[14:36] <Randomskk> maybe I should spin up more
[14:36] <willdude123> What are the skein hashes for xkcd?
[14:36] <Randomskk> fsphil: it's threefish based
[14:36] <Randomskk> willdude123: http://xkcd.com
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[14:37] <costyn> I have no idea whats going on in that comic
[14:38] <Randomskk> a lot of it is/was being generated based on things
[14:38] <willdude123> What's this about? http://almamater.xkcd.com/
[14:38] <Randomskk> so the company mentioned at the start changed as people modified certain wikipedia articles
[14:38] <Randomskk> hints as to which article to mention next led you to the one to change
[14:39] <Randomskk> the size of the puppy got bigger as more people donated to wikipedia (to compensate for all the vandelism I guess)
[14:39] <Randomskk> but the two universities mentioned depend on who's winning a hash breaking competition
[14:39] <Randomskk> http://almamater.xkcd.com/best.csv
[14:39] <Randomskk> at the moment kit.edu is winning somehow
[14:39] <willdude123> Err okay. How do you break hashes?
[14:39] <Randomskk> willdude123: you don't. you guess as many random numbers as you can and see how good they get you
[14:40] <costyn> Randomskk: interesting
[14:40] <fsphil> KITT is winning? don't tell lunar
[14:40] <Randomskk> so far I've guessed something like
[14:40] <Randomskk> well
[14:40] <Randomskk> many
[14:40] <Randomskk> very many
[14:40] <willdude123> So you input random data on the second screen?
[14:40] <willdude123> How do you guess?
[14:40] <Randomskk> well, yes, but actually no because that'd be too slow
[14:40] <Randomskk> so you compute the hash on your own PC
[14:40] <Randomskk> and compare it
[14:40] <Randomskk> and only submit good ones
[14:41] <willdude123> Good ones?
[14:41] <Randomskk> ones that hash to a number similar to the number he is looking for
[14:41] <Randomskk> so far I've computed something like 9 000 000 000 000 hashes
[14:41] <willdude123> Which is 5b4da.....
[14:42] <willdude123> What hash method is used?
[14:42] <Randomskk> the best was 392 bits different to his 1024-bit target
[14:42] <Randomskk> skein 1024 1024
[14:42] <fsphil> xkcd has probably wasted more electricity than amount donated to wikimedia
[14:42] <Randomskk> quite likely
[14:42] <Randomskk> though I only have 128 normal CPU cores working on it
[14:42] <willdude123> What's the wikimedia bit about?
[14:42] <Randomskk> which can't be much compared to some competitors
[14:42] <fsphil> I can let you use four more :)
[14:42] <Randomskk> other people at cambridge are using fpga and gpu clusters
[14:42] <Randomskk> but amusingly I am beating them :P
[14:43] <willdude123> What do the winners get?
[14:43] <fsphil> pride
[14:43] <Randomskk> willdude123: their university on the comic
[14:43] <Randomskk> at 6AM today, the comic locks
[14:43] <Randomskk> so whoever is in 1st and 3rd place then gets on the comic forever
[14:43] <willdude123> What if they aren;t at a university?
[14:43] <Randomskk> well, whatever university or other .edu domain they put on the form
[14:43] <Randomskk> or .ac.uk or whatever
[14:44] <Randomskk> fsphil: annoyingly I'm no longer sure how many hashes I've tried
[14:44] <Randomskk> as most of the 128 workers have overflowed the 64 bit counter
[14:44] <fsphil> I've got about 8 cores here
[14:44] <eroomde> at least cambridge is beating oxford
[14:44] <fsphil> between three CPUs
[14:44] <Randomskk> eroomde: (thanks to me!)
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[14:44] <UpuWork> sounds like Distributed.net
[14:45] <eroomde> do you get your money back?
[14:45] <willdude123> So people make random numbers by themselves?
[14:45] <fsphil> is this just an elaborate way of him finding his old password that he forgot?
[14:45] <eroomde> what about the speech groups' hypermegacluster in div f?
[14:45] <Randomskk> eroomde: I don't have access :(
[14:45] <Randomskk> just using ts-access
[14:45] <Randomskk> but that's 8 servers each with 16 cores (I'm only using 12 each to be nice...)
[14:46] <willdude123> Randomskk: Bet they cost you a lot.
[14:46] <Randomskk> (+ four EC2 high cpu extra large instances, each 8 cores)
[14:46] <Randomskk> willdude123: those are the ones at the engineering dept at cambridge
[14:46] <Randomskk> so they're free
[14:46] <Randomskk> the EC2 boxes are $2.40 an hour for the four of them
[14:46] <Randomskk> which does add up over a day or two
[14:47] <Randomskk> the EC2 boxes are exhausting a 64 bit search space sequentially
[14:47] <Randomskk> 32 threads, partitioning the space equally and going through it
[14:47] <Randomskk> each one is 0.000005% through
[14:47] <Randomskk> the CUED cluster is searching a 128 bit space at random
[14:47] <willdude123> Did you rent them then?
[14:47] <fsphil> when is 6AM.. guessing that's not UTC?
[14:47] <Randomskk> fsphil: 6AM BST
[14:47] <fsphil> oh tomorrow
[14:47] <Randomskk> (midnight EST)
[14:48] <fsphil> I'll fire up a few process when I get home
[14:48] <Randomskk> willdude123: I didn't rent the engineering ones -- any student can log in and run jobs
[14:48] <fsphil> is there a script you're using?
[14:48] <Randomskk> typically they don't appreciate people running quite such a huge job
[14:48] <Randomskk> fsphil: it's a python script and some C code I wrote
[14:48] <Randomskk> plus the NIST skein C reference
[14:48] <Randomskk> the python script runs many copies of the C program, for easy multithreading
[14:49] <Randomskk> you just tell it how many workers to run, plus some numbers to help ensure multiple servers don't work on the same problem
[14:49] <willdude123> Anyone know how to setup boinc headlessly?
[14:49] <eroomde> 1) chop your head off
[14:49] <eroomde> 2) set up boinc
[14:49] <fsphil> I can just start them all at random points
[14:49] <willdude123> eroomde: You know what I mean.
[14:49] <willdude123> :)
[14:49] <Randomskk> fsphil: yea, exactly. but the question is how you find random points that other servers aren't on
[14:50] <Randomskk> it's deterministic from the command line argument
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[14:50] <Randomskk> but I mean, that doesn't really matter
[14:50] <eroomde> right off
[14:50] <eroomde> bbl
[14:50] <fsphil> well the space to scan is kinda huge
[14:50] Action: craag wonders how long before his program gets kicked off the faculty's computation server..
[14:50] <Randomskk> yea it really is
[14:50] <Randomskk> craag: who are you computing for? :P
[14:50] <craag> soton.ac.uk
[14:51] <mfa298> willdude123: I know you can setup boinc remotely but it's been a while since I did it
[14:51] <Randomskk> craag: want a handout? :P
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[14:51] <Randomskk> I trolled MIT last night
[14:51] <craag> handout?
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[14:51] <Randomskk> by posting a better record than anything they'd found
[14:51] <Randomskk> craag: I have a few inputs that are better than 413 bits
[14:52] <fsphil> is it just looking for strings that end in \0?
[14:52] <Randomskk> fsphil: hm?
[14:52] <Randomskk> nah
[14:52] <Randomskk> well, what do you mean
[14:52] <Randomskk> you can submit any binary data you want to the competition
[14:53] <Randomskk> doesn't have to be ascii
[14:53] <fsphil> oh anything that results in that hash?
[14:53] <Randomskk> or end in \0
[14:53] <Randomskk> yes
[14:53] <fsphil> ah
[14:53] <Randomskk> though it does make submitting a bit harder
[14:53] <Randomskk> as no http library is happy letting me just stick totally binary data in the form field
[14:53] <Randomskk> and it doesn't urldecode
[14:53] <Randomskk> so you can't be like %ff
[14:53] <Randomskk> (I'm having python write a binary file containing the http request, then using netcat to send it to the server)
[14:54] <Randomskk> ahaha. my worker threads have each overflowed their signed 64 bit counter four times
[14:54] <Randomskk> so many hashes
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[14:54] <fsphil> could the hash be calculated backwards from the result?
[14:54] <fsphil> er
[14:54] <Randomskk> yes. if you break skein
[14:55] <fsphil> the source data*
[14:55] <Randomskk> what do you mean?
[14:55] <craag> Randomskk: Nah, I'm going to try to get this program working, and achieve some :)
[14:55] <fsphil> calculating the hash can be done with a series of very simple operations
[14:55] <Randomskk> craag: good luck :D
[14:55] <fsphil> just do it backwards
[14:55] <Randomskk> fsphil: do it backwards from the hash?
[14:55] <fsphil> yea
[14:55] <Randomskk> to find his original data?
[14:55] <willdude123> Do most universities let you run jobs?
[14:55] <Randomskk> do you know how hashes work? :P
[14:55] <Randomskk> specifically they are nonlinear
[14:56] <Randomskk> the entire point is that it should be impossible to reverse
[14:56] <Randomskk> if you managed that, you'd have broken a brand new, super secure, very high end hashing function (and probably the underlying cipher threefish)
[14:56] <costyn> hehe
[14:56] <Randomskk> the NSA would probably want words :P
[14:56] <lz1dev> hash cracking competition Randomskk ?
[14:56] <fsphil> hah
[14:56] <Randomskk> skein was a finalist for SHA3
[14:56] <costyn> fsphil likes a challenge
[14:56] <Randomskk> lz1dev: yup. xkcd.com
[14:57] <Randomskk> willdude123: yea, I think so.
[14:57] <costyn> lz1dev: http://almamater.xkcd.com/ more specifically
[14:58] <lz1dev> yeah found it :)
[14:58] <costyn> so is it an Apple recruitment ad?
[14:58] <costyn> I don't understand the Apple references
[14:58] <fsphil> it changes
[14:58] <fsphil> was amazon earlier
[14:59] <costyn> ah
[14:59] <fsphil> I think it depends on wikipedia edits
[14:59] <lz1dev> whats the number in the ladderboard?
[15:00] <Randomskk> number of bits in error between the best hash from that uni and the target
[15:00] <costyn> so less is better
[15:01] <Randomskk> yes
[15:01] <costyn> Randomskk: are you cam.ac.uk?
[15:01] <Randomskk> yes
[15:01] <Randomskk> (other people are also working for cam.ac.uk, but I haven't spoken to any of them and so far I'm doing best :P)
[15:01] <costyn> cool
[15:01] <Randomskk> ooh. the EC2 cluster just found another, but it's only 399
[15:03] <costyn> how many bits total in the string?
[15:03] <Randomskk> 1024
[15:03] <Randomskk> which is quite a lot
[15:03] <Randomskk> it's a huge hash
[15:04] Action: Randomskk debates spinning up more ec2 boxes
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[15:04] <Randomskk> oh no, cmu.edu just found a 390 bit hash!
[15:04] <Randomskk> damn it, they were just below cam.ac.uk a moment ago
[15:05] <costyn> it's just a random search right? just gotta be lucky?
[15:05] <fsphil> be funny if it was the hash of the xkcd comic image
[15:07] <fsphil> ... which is a blank image. not that simple
[15:11] <willdude123> fsphil: Would I get better reception on 70cm band if I had a raspi outside of my house transmitting TCP packets?
[15:11] <Randomskk> costyn: yea
[15:11] <willdude123> (With an FCD and HABampo)
[15:11] <Randomskk> but at this scale it's not really luck
[15:12] <Randomskk> so much as how much computational power you can get through in time
[15:12] <Randomskk> luck averages out :P
[15:12] <fsphil> the most important thing is the location of the antenna willdude123. it needs to be as high as possible
[15:12] <fsphil> and with a line of sight of the transmitter/payload
[15:12] <lz1dev> cant you bruteforce the answer using best.csv
[15:12] <Randomskk> lz1dev: ?
[15:13] <lz1dev> change 1 bit, see got higher on the ladder
[15:13] <willdude123> In fact, I have an upstairs bedroom, which would probably be the highest I could put it, but even so, there wouldn't be line of sight for 180 degrees.
[15:13] <lz1dev> repeat
[15:13] <Randomskk> no
[15:13] <Randomskk> uhm
[15:13] <Randomskk> the ladder is kinda irrelevant to breaking it anyway: you can work out how good you were offline
[15:13] <Randomskk> but it's a hash function
[15:13] <Randomskk> it can take an infinitely large input
[15:14] <lz1dev> yeah yeah, i know
[15:14] <Randomskk> and any single bit change should be distributed throughout the entire result
[15:14] <willdude123> fsphil: I couldn't really have it on top of the roof.
[15:14] <fsphil> I wouldn't recommend going onto the roof nope
[15:14] <lz1dev> Randomskk: so people are submitting collisions ?
[15:15] <Randomskk> as it were
[15:15] <Randomskk> people are submitting inputs to the hash function that give something close to the right output
[15:15] <willdude123> fsphil: But i'll only get 180 degrees line of sight from my bedroom, and that's the highest I can go.
[15:15] <fsphil> willdude123: depends where the payload is
[15:15] <fsphil> it could be that direction
[15:16] <fsphil> you gotta work with what you've got :)
[15:16] <fsphil> if it's close enought it may even work through the house
[15:16] <fsphil> or via reflection of something nearby
[15:16] <willdude123> It's quite a big problem though.
[15:16] <willdude123> Hmm.
[15:16] <fsphil> enough doesn't have a t, but I keep ending it with one
[15:17] <willdude123> There's nowhere with 360 degrees line of sight, which could be a problem.
[15:17] <craag> Huh, looks like someone's trying to simulate a neural net on the same computation server, maybe I'll give them a couple of free cores..
[15:17] <Randomskk> that doesn't sound as important :P
[15:17] <Randomskk> what kinda resources does it have?
[15:18] <mfa298> willdude123: location and direction is a problem several people have. I can't hear a lot of flights due to where I am and where I can put aerials
[15:19] <craag> Randomskk: 2x 6-core 2.66ghz xeons with ht, 96gb ram.
[15:19] <craag> Shame ram isn't really useful for this
[15:19] <Randomskk> seriously
[15:19] <Randomskk> so much ram
[15:19] <Randomskk> there are memory tradeoffs you can make
[15:19] <Randomskk> for e.g. counting the number of bit errors
[15:19] <craag> ooo a 411 :D
[15:20] <Randomskk> but not so much in computing the hash
[15:20] <craag> mm
[15:20] <willdude123> Trying to figure out the heading of my bedroom.
[15:21] <willdude123> I think it's a west heading bedroom.
[15:22] <willdude123> Well I'm getting a HABamp from Upu, so that'll help.
[15:22] <Randomskk> is it currently filled with sunlight, or not?
[15:22] <mfa298> if it's west facing you might have the same issue as I have.
[15:22] <willdude123> daveake: Where are you planning on launching from?
[15:23] <mfa298> although in a house you should do better with stuff from the other side then I do.
[15:23] <UpuWork> is this something you can throw a GPU at ?
[15:23] <Randomskk> yes
[15:23] <Randomskk> but I don't have any opencl code for skein
[15:24] <Randomskk> it's basically exactly the same problem as bitcoin mining
[15:24] <Randomskk> so gpus are good
[15:25] <willdude123> mfa298, I can poke an antenna out East, West and South.
[15:26] <willdude123> UpuWork: Do you know where Dave is going to launch PIE5?
[15:26] <mfa298> willdude123: East should do you well as a lot of flights are cambridge / east anglia way
[15:29] <lz1dev> willdude123: maybe from a boat
[15:46] <willdude123> Launching from a boat? Really?
[15:47] <lz1dev> who knows
[15:50] <Ciemon> willdude123: streetmap.co.uk is idal for working out how your house is oriented.
[15:50] <Ciemon> s/idal/ideal
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[15:54] <Ciemon> Anyone here know of a decent Android ssh client?
[15:56] <mfa298> Ciemon: I use connectBot which seems to work fairly well
[15:57] <Ciemon> I have that here, but the font is way too small and I can't find a way to change it.
[15:57] <fsphil> volume control
[15:58] <Randomskk> apparently the person who got the kit.edu score had about 5E13 hashes
[15:58] <Ciemon> Oh ffs... thanks fsphil
[15:58] <Randomskk> I'm at 1.6E12 :(
[15:59] <Ciemon> Now I can turn my laptop off :)
[16:00] <fsphil> connectbox is nice, but miss a real keyboard
[16:00] <fsphil> bot*
[16:01] <fsphil> +I
[16:01] <fsphil> not that I can type with a real one
[16:01] <Ciemon> think I'll get a bluetooth keyboard for when I need it
[16:01] <fsphil> I've never trusted wireless keyboards
[16:02] <lz1dev> Ciemon: connectbot
[16:02] <willdude123> Ciemon: Is it for Irssi?
[16:02] <Ciemon> as in security?
[16:02] <fsphil> yea
[16:02] <Ciemon> willdude123: yes
[16:02] <willdude123> I use Irssi connectbot.
[16:02] <willdude123> You can live with it, but it's a bit annoying.
[16:03] <willdude123> Ciemon: Thanks for posting the FCD to Upu.
[16:03] <Ciemon> Yeah I've used that, but this is more for remote access, I just have irssi running permanently "remotely"
[16:03] <willdude123> In a screen session?
[16:04] <Ciemon> No, in a byobu session, so that I get all the server data at the bottom of the screen
[16:04] <Ciemon> and then I can open extra terminal sessions within byobu
[16:04] <fsphil> I must try that sometime
[16:04] <willdude123> I just use screen. Works fine for me.
[16:04] <fsphil> you can have multiple terminals in screen too
[16:04] <Ciemon> fsphil: fair point on security. I guess a dock would do
[16:04] <fsphil> Ctrl+A c
[16:06] <mfa298> and you can have server/session data at the bottom of screen
[16:06] <Ciemon> I like having server stats on view which is why I use byobu
[16:07] <Ciemon> combined with terminator, the awesomeness is hard to beat
[16:07] <Ciemon> imho ;)
[16:07] <mfa298> depends on what stats you want but you can do at least some if it in screen (I've got servername, date and time and load avg) on my screen session
[16:08] <Ciemon> The joys of Linux!
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[16:14] <arko> Morning
[16:14] Action: willdude123 is trolling apple online support.
[16:15] <eroomde> how are things arko?
[16:15] <arko> Not too shabby
[16:16] <arko> School is back
[16:16] <arko> From spring break
[16:16] <arko> I didnt get half the classes i needed :/
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[16:17] <arko> This school is not funded well like every other uni in cal
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[16:19] <eroomde> that sucks a bit
[16:20] <arko> Indeed
[16:20] <arko> How are things on your side of the sea?
[16:21] <willdude123> Just asked apple online support to give me a carboard steve jobs cutout.
[16:22] <eroomde> watching GoT
[16:22] <eroomde> left work early
[16:22] <eroomde> lazybones perogative
[16:22] <Randomskk> nice going
[16:22] <Randomskk> should I watch got? is it actually that good?
[16:23] <Randomskk> I have two seasons of veronica mars to get through but then I'll be out of tv
[16:23] <arko> Oh dude, new GoT was cool
[16:23] <arko> Saw it last night
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[16:25] <willdude123> Anyone know much about HABamps?
[16:25] <eroomde> yes watch it Randomskk
[16:25] <arko> ^^
[16:25] <Randomskk> eroomde: from the start?
[16:25] <eroomde> yes
[16:25] <Randomskk> is any of it out on dvd yet?
[16:25] <eroomde> else total bewilderment will ensue
[16:26] <arko> Worth watching just for the opening credits/theme song
[16:26] <eroomde> willdude123: ask the question.if someone does they'll answer
[16:26] <eroomde> not sure about dvd
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[16:27] <arko> Randomskk: read the book first ifnyou can
[16:27] <arko> I made the mistake of watching then reading
[16:27] <willdude123> Will I be able to receive signals from other directions than where the antenna is pointing? Like is it sensitive enough.
[16:27] <eroomde> the books might be a bit offputting
[16:28] <arko> Really? It helped things make sense to me
[16:28] <eroomde> GRRM looked exactly like how i imagined he might
[16:28] <eroomde> put it that way
[16:29] <arko> Lol
[16:29] <mfa298> I got really confused when watching GoT at first due to the large number of people
[16:30] <arko> Yeah.. lots of characters
[16:30] <mfa298> I've been reading the first book and it's not starting to make more sense
[16:30] <arko> Haha
[16:31] <mfa298> s/not/now/
[16:31] <mfa298> that was a bad mistype
[16:32] <arko> Ha!
[16:32] <eroomde> willdude123: depends on the antenna rathher than the amp
[16:32] <mfa298> willdude123: it'd going to depend on what antenna your using
[16:32] <willdude123> Just a quarter wave.
[16:33] <willdude123> Basic one.
[16:33] <eroomde> they just ened to point up
[16:33] <eroomde> and ahve equal gain out to the sides
[16:33] <eroomde> lowest gain directly above
[16:33] <griffonbot> Received email: Jens Pirnay "[UKHAS] Re: Strange predictor behaviour"
[16:33] <willdude123> I have nowhere with good line of sight to put an antenna.
[16:34] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Greig "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Strange predictor behaviour"
[16:34] <mfa298> willdude123: do you think you might be able to get into the attic to put the antenna up there ?
[16:34] <eroomde> you might be alright without great LoS
[16:34] <arko> imgur.com/zU2eLTy
[16:35] <Randomskk> hmm
[16:35] <eroomde> just put it in the best place you can, ideally by or just outside a window
[16:35] <Randomskk> $140 to get 20 EC2 boxes running til the xkcd deadline
[16:35] <Randomskk> I probably shouldn't
[16:35] <Randomskk> just want one or two bits closer...
[16:35] <eroomde> whip round srcf irc?
[16:36] <Randomskk> apparently a couple of other cambridge groups are trying
[16:36] <Randomskk> just none have got much to show for it
[16:36] <Randomskk> the dtg are
[16:36] <Randomskk> and apparently some of the cl's fpga clusters are
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[16:45] <chrisstubbs> afternoon
[16:45] <willdude123> mfa298: Maybe.
[16:46] <willdude123> I don't think I could wire it though.
[16:46] <willdude123> I'll maybe talk to Upu.
[16:46] <willdude123> I practically live in the attic though.
[16:46] <willdude123> I'm only about 2.5 metres down from it.
[16:46] <Upu> theres more than 2.5meters of Coax in this box
[16:49] <mfa298> willdude123: if you can get it in the attic then that might give you a reasonable all round coverage. If you do that ideally you also want the habamp near the attic
[16:49] <mfa298> I know of someone who had to do something similar and I think he managed ok with tracking stuff
[16:50] <willdude123> Upu: But I don't have direct acess.
[16:51] <willdude123> I am practically in the attic, the loft is above me.
[16:51] <willdude123> I'll talk to my dad about it.
[16:51] <Upu> theres more than one way to drill a hole in the roof without your parents noticing is all I'm saying
[16:51] <Upu> joking btw
[16:52] <willdude123> Well, how many ohms is tv coax?
[16:52] <mfa298> the easiest option would be to see if you can put a hole in the ceiling (with permission)
[16:52] <mfa298> tv coax is usually (supposedly) 75 ohm
[16:52] <mfa298> but if it's the cheap (low loss) stuff I'd stay as far away as possible
[16:52] <willdude123> I already have tv coax going to an aerial in the loft so it must be possible.
[16:53] <chrisstubbs> willdude123, is it plastered into the wall though?
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[16:54] <willdude123> My dad just drilled a hole in it.
[16:54] <willdude123> Hi dave.
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[16:54] <willdude123> Maybe in the future, it'd be better to have a raspberry pi transmitting the data over TCP from the lofgt.
[16:55] <mfa298> willdude123: well if he can drill a hole for tv coax he should be able to drill a hole for this (depending on what cable you're getting it could be a similar size)
[16:56] <willdude123> As I said though, I practically live in the attic (converted bungalow) so I guess I could temporarily put the antenna wherever I wanted.
[16:56] <willdude123> My bedroom is a weird shape.
[16:56] <chrisstubbs> out the window on a long pole?
[16:56] <mfa298> if it's in a converted attic you might be in a reasonable place anyway
[16:56] <willdude123> chrisstubbs: That's an idea.
[16:57] Action: chrisstubbs takes no responsibility for antennas falling off and smashing stuff
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[16:58] <mfa298> willdude123: if the top of your window is near the roof line then the long pole approach might work
[16:58] <chrisstubbs> what antenna have you decided on?
[16:58] <willdude123> A quarter wave.
[16:58] <mfa298> 2m of 34mm abs waste pipe from the local DIY store works well for antenna mounts
[16:59] <chrisstubbs> ah nice and easy
[16:59] <chrisstubbs> i duct taped a extendible fishing pole thing to a couple of broom handles and put my antenna on that before i fot the proper mounting kit
[17:00] <willdude123> Lol.
[17:00] <willdude123> I'll speak to my Dad about it.
[17:00] <chrisstubbs> good plan :P
[17:02] <chrisstubbs> the sunny weather is deceitful
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[17:02] <mfa298> willdude123: the best thing to do is experiment. finding a good antenna placement can be a bit like black magic
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[17:14] <arko> How much does a pico launch cost on average?
[17:14] <arko> Helium + ballon
[17:15] <arko> Balloon
[17:15] <chrisstubbs> balloon is like £3.50 i think
[17:15] <chrisstubbs> and a disposable can of helium about £30
[17:15] <arko> Wow, thats cheap
[17:15] <arko> $60ish?
[17:16] <chrisstubbs> no idea in USD mate sorry, is your helium any cheaper?
[17:16] <arko> Nope
[17:16] <arko> Heh
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[17:17] <SP9UOB_Tom> hi all
[17:18] <arko> Hello
[17:18] <chrisstubbs> Arko: 36" Silver Qualatex - £3.95 / disposable 30 helium: £18.95
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[17:19] <arko> Hmm, so im trying to find an super small camera that transmits an analog video feed
[17:19] Action: SP9UOB_Tom just finished brand new tracker: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pico/pico1.jpg
[17:19] <arko> So i dont have to recovernit
[17:19] <chrisstubbs> hi tom
[17:19] Action: SP9UOB_Tom is so proud :-)
[17:19] <chrisstubbs> oo very tidy
[17:19] <SP9UOB_Tom> http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pico/pico2.jpg
[17:19] <chrisstubbs> is that a PIC i see? ;)
[17:19] <arko> Nice work!
[17:20] <arko> chrisstubbs: hmm not bad at all
[17:20] <SP9UOB_Tom> chrisstubbs: yes :-)
[17:21] <griffonbot> Received email: chris hillcox "[UKHAS] Re: Proposed launch of AURA & AURA2"
[17:22] <cuddykid> hm, dropbox is down
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[17:23] <eroomde> idea:
[17:23] <eroomde> fly cameras that happen to emit 100mW of interference
[17:23] <cuddykid> https://www.dropbox.com/s/nbj295inicc75ks/Hex_Snippet.mov <- snipped from hex flying earlier - windy conditions but it was remarkably stable
[17:24] <eroomde> which happens to be usefully modulated with telemetry
[17:24] <arko> Ohhh
[17:24] <eroomde> cuddykid: down for me too
[17:24] <eroomde> oh no up now
[17:24] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, what kinda weight can that thing lift?
[17:25] <arko> Encode the position in the stream!
[17:25] <cuddykid> chrisstubbs: about 2kg
[17:25] <cuddykid> obviously would shorten flight time though
[17:25] <cuddykid> but it's pretty powerful
[17:26] <chrisstubbs> jeeez
[17:26] <chrisstubbs> i have the perfect thing for HAB recovery ;)
[17:26] <cuddykid> yup!
[17:27] <cuddykid> need to get some FPV gear then await a tree landing to swing the hex into action
[17:27] <chrisstubbs> robot arm it up ;_)
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[17:34] <willdude123> arko:Wouldn't it be better to just have video from the flight uploaded on landing?
[17:35] <arko> Well, the odds are the pico will land in mountains or water
[17:35] <arko> Not much flat ground here
[17:35] <arko> I want to get the data before falls below the horizon
[17:36] <arko> And to do it cheap
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[17:38] Nick change: chrisstubbs -> csaway
[17:40] <eroomde> i talked about, and never did, as is the way with me and hab nowdays, a QRSS type beacon for hab
[17:40] <eroomde> which is a very slow morse, of the order of 10-30s for a dit
[17:40] <SP9UOB_Tom> eroomde: im trying to get WSPR :-)
[17:41] <Randomskk> eroomde: for what purpose?
[17:41] <eroomde> and have it spend 30mins/1hr/whatever sending a gps position back for when tou just don;t have LoS, with a very very low power hf system
[17:41] <Randomskk> it seems like the snr cliff is soooo steep
[17:41] <SP9UOB_Tom> eroomde: the main goal is - there is distributed listeners network :-)
[17:41] <Randomskk> oh on HF
[17:41] <eroomde> yes
[17:41] <eroomde> v low freq hf
[17:41] <Randomskk> SP9UOB_Tom: would the wspr network work when you want to actually find the other station's position?
[17:41] <Randomskk> eroomde: like, ULF?
[17:41] <eroomde> propagate like a banshee
[17:41] <Randomskk> :P
[17:41] <eroomde> no. VLFHF
[17:42] <Randomskk> aww
[17:42] <eroomde> there is not constradicrtion there :)
[17:42] <SP9UOB_Tom> Randomskk: in "frame" is QTH locator encoded - mainhead grid
[17:42] <eroomde> it would be fairly simply to make too
[17:42] <SP9UOB_Tom> Randomskk: which gives about 2 km accurate position
[17:42] <eroomde> i was wondering about it from the pov os recovering rocket stages in terrain where LoS is not something you have
[17:42] <eroomde> unless you have an aeroplane
[17:42] <eroomde> i.e. the thing that made me think about it was not that abstract
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[17:47] Nick change: MichaelC -> MichaelC|Away
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[17:51] <arko> eroomde that would be perfect for transatlantic or that autonomous mini boat idea
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[17:53] <cuddykid> going ahead with a thurs launch :)
[17:55] <arko> :)
[17:55] <fsphil> I had the same idea arko, but vs. a satellite modem HF is at best a backup
[17:55] <fsphil> plus 2-way
[17:56] <Randomskk> rockblock is definitely a nice option
[17:56] <Randomskk> (also now has habitat integration!)
[17:57] <fsphil> and you can transmit coordinates with better than 2km accuracy :)
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[18:05] <willdude123> Hi daveake.
[18:05] <arko> http://www.imgur.com/QsRiXbe.png
[18:05] <arko> Like thatish
[18:06] <daveake> Upu approved colour scheme
[18:06] <arko> Pink all the things!
[18:06] <arko> From now on all my habs shall be pink
[18:07] <natrium42> lol
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[18:07] <eroomde> the archers is on
[18:07] <natrium42> Pink is Upu's favourite colour
[18:07] <eroomde> it is bright outside
[18:08] <eroomde> run sundaymorning.sh
[18:08] <arko> natrium42: i was in the bay area a few weeks ago! We should grab drinks when im up there again
[18:08] <eroomde> segfault
[18:08] <arko> eroomde the fx show?
[18:08] <eroomde> pub
[18:08] <eroomde> yes the fx show
[18:08] <eroomde> yep
[18:08] <eroomde> the archers
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[18:08] <arko> Love thatbshow
[18:08] <eroomde> that fx show
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[18:09] <arko> That show*
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[18:09] <arko> Oh
[18:09] <arko> Totally not that show
[18:09] <arko> Hahaha
[18:10] <eroomde> it's this dire thing that usually reminds me to think about going home
[18:13] <KT5TK1> SP9UOB_Tom: Don't listen to randomskk. WSPR is fun and definitely worth a try for a HAB. Rockblock is evil commercial technology and thakes the fun out of the amateur projects
[18:14] <eroomde> well that's him told
[18:15] <Randomskk> ouch
[18:16] <SP9UOB_Tom> KT5TK1: I try to setup WSPR tracker to my transasiatic flight
[18:16] <mattbrejza> solution: make your own iridium modem
[18:16] <mattbrejza> (ARGOS might be easier)
[18:17] <eroomde> 'telemetry packet 457 to the collection point'
[18:18] <daveake> Sorry SSDV packets are only available at Extra stores
[18:18] <KT5TK1> SP9UOB_Tom: Good, that was also my thought. The same tracker could also transmit PSK or rtty in alternating cycles
[18:19] <KT5TK1> For the times when you have good reception and get a precise position
[18:20] <KT5TK1> But out at the ocean a 2km precision is just fine
[18:20] <griffonbot> Received email: Costyn van Dongen "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Proposed launch of AURA & AURA2"
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[18:21] <fsphil> but you wouldn't be able to command it
[18:21] <fsphil> wspr won't support extra telemetry either
[18:21] <SP9UOB_Tom> KT5TK1: also it can receive! (direct conversion) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKm-Hswbau0
[18:21] <fsphil> knowing the temperature, battery status, even small images
[18:21] <fsphil> these are all impossible with wspr
[18:21] <KT5TK1> It's an autonomous vehicle. That's what it should be ;)
[18:22] <SP9UOB_Tom> fsphil: Protocol can be modified
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[18:22] <mattbrejza> try sending images at 1.6baud
[18:23] <fsphil> possible of course, but it would make current ssdv look like 4K TV
[18:23] <mattbrejza> would swinging cause issues with 1.6Hz spacing?
[18:23] <KT5TK1> SP9UOB_Tom: Interesting (rx). Though I wouldn't count on it.
[18:24] <SP9UOB_Tom> KT5TK1: i have enough computing power on my dsPICs :-)
[18:24] <arko> Wow, ive been getting messages and random emails from people who tracked our hab, didnt realize how many people watched
[18:24] <fsphil> sweet
[18:25] <fsphil> nice drawing
[18:25] <KT5TK1> SP9UOB_Tom but you don't want to waste battery power
[18:27] <KT5TK1> There is really not much you can command at a floater.
[18:27] <KT5TK1> Just let it go.
[18:27] <eroomde> tell it to float more
[18:27] <eroomde> drop ballast
[18:28] <nigelvh> "float more damnit!"
[18:28] <SP9UOB_Tom> KT5TK1: power is not the problem (in daytime :-) http://sp9uob.verox.pl/solar/sputnik.jpg
[18:28] <eroomde> uplink a message for it to sound out
[18:28] <eroomde> make a lisp REPL
[18:29] <KT5TK1> If you want to implement some valve or balast drop that this can be automatic in the onboard micro firmware
[18:29] <mattbrejza> it doesnt need to listen continuously anyway
[18:29] <eroomde> can be but you might not be able to work out the whole system dynamics in advance
[18:29] Nick change: csaway -> chrisstubbs
[18:29] <eroomde> you might want to deliberately induce a drop when you think you need one and then measure the response
[18:29] <arko> Responds with "im floating damn it!"
[18:29] <eroomde> for an automatic v2
[18:30] <fsphil> or unexpected behaviour of balloon, you might want to terminate early
[18:30] <arko> Haha eroomde with the lisp repl again
[18:30] <eroomde> they did it on voyager dude
[18:30] <eroomde> i'm telling you
[18:30] <arko> I know i know! You told me!
[18:31] <arko> I love the idea
[18:31] <fsphil> 2-way is also useful for telling the payload to retransmit something, if it was missed the first time
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[18:31] <eroomde> with a repl
[18:32] <arko> Or tell it to do it louder
[18:32] <KT5TK1> I'd say one step at a time. First make sure you can track a HAB through the whole ocean. Then think about remote control.
[18:32] <eroomde> or do it live
[18:32] <arko> "PREACH IT BROTHA!"
[18:32] <arko> that could be your highest power setting
[18:32] <SP9UOB_Tom> or just talk to it when its sad and alone over Siberia
[18:32] <arko> Haha
[18:32] <eroomde> have a master boot uc
[18:32] <eroomde> upload new firmware over the air
[18:32] <arko> "Sup?" "Nm u?" "Meh"
[18:33] <arko> Eroomde jpl had some fun with that in their ear
[18:33] <arko> Y days
[18:33] <arko> Early
[18:33] <eroomde> ears
[18:34] <arko> :p
[18:34] <fsphil> I don't want to know how they had fun with their ears
[18:34] <arko> Me neither
[18:34] <arko> Early days*
[18:42] <arko> hahaha
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[18:42] <arko> i just googled ADF7012 eagle
[18:42] <arko> first hit is Upu
[18:42] <arko> thanks Upu, saves me a good deal of time
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[18:54] <Upu> haha
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[19:03] <fsphil> he's everywhere
[19:04] <daveake> Upu's Present Universally
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[19:05] <SP9UOB_Tom> evening all
[19:05] <Upu> thats one of those things I don't recall the name of line PINE
[19:05] <Upu> Evening Tom
[19:05] <Upu> like
[19:06] <fsphil> howdy Tom
[19:06] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pico/pico1.jpg
[19:06] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pico/pico2.jpg
[19:06] <SP9UOB_Tom> :-)
[19:07] <Upu> tidy SP9UOB_Tom :)
[19:07] <Upu> PIC :)
[19:07] <fsphil> we'll let you away with it this time. great looking board
[19:08] <SP9UOB_Tom> thanks :-) im so proud :-))
[19:08] <Upu> stepup as well :) AA :)
[19:09] <eroomde> dspic?
[19:09] <Upu> ah 1.8v
[19:09] <Upu> does the PIC run 8Mhz @ 1.8V ?
[19:09] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: even @32 MHz
[19:09] <Upu> interesting
[19:10] <Upu> any less power usage at 4Mhz or is it all about the same ?
[19:10] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pico/insulaton.jpg :-)
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[19:11] <Upu> looks kinda familar :)
[19:11] <Upu> put some thing in close contact with the board
[19:11] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: little less, but it can go to deep sleep @32 kHz - 0.8 uA :-)
[19:11] <Upu> anything really bit of cotton tissue etc
[19:11] <Upu> and make sure the RFM is rebooting occasionally
[19:11] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: its rebooted every 90 secconds
[19:11] <Upu> ok
[19:12] <eroomde> why do you have to reboot the rfm22 periodically?
[19:12] <Upu> because of Chinese
[19:12] <Upu> I don't think the components are rated to -40
[19:12] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: what for? (cotton tissue). Humidity ?
[19:13] <Upu> and when they get cold they have a nasty habit of locking up
[19:13] <Upu> and 1.8v boards don't generate much heat
[19:13] <Upu> I'm working on my own version with all the comps rated to -40 and with a TCXO
[19:13] <eroomde> ah
[19:13] <Upu> no SP9UOB_Tom just extra insulation minimise the "free" air as much as possible
[19:13] <Upu> gaps
[19:13] <eroomde> hence the interest in impedence matching?
[19:14] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: i have styrofoam
[19:14] <Upu> doesnt' matter mine did when it froze up over Germany
[19:14] <Upu> you got it eroomde
[19:14] <eroomde> i mean, not that that's not a paerfectly swell thing to be naturally curious about for no particular reason anyway :)
[19:14] <Upu> no I generally have a reason
[19:14] <Upu> apart from blinken leds
[19:14] <eroomde> they need no reason
[19:14] <Upu> indeed
[19:15] <Upu> SP9UOB_Tom more layers = more insulation
[19:15] <Upu> simple as that
[19:16] <Upu> I think the antenna cools the whole board down
[19:16] <Upu> my next board has an onboard antenna
[19:16] <eroomde> just to be difficult, insulation when it gets big enough relative to the object can start doing more harm than good
[19:17] <eroomde> eg hot water pipe lagging
[19:17] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: antenna will be outside connected with small piece of coax
[19:17] <eroomde> there is an optimal radius of pipe insulation, beyond that the increase in surface area has a more negative effect (in terms of rate of heat transfer) than the extra distance between the object and the air
[19:18] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/byGMut8.png
[19:18] <Upu> 70mm diameter fits in a 10cms poly ball
[19:18] <Upu> antenna stub screns on , clip a battery in
[19:19] <Upu> nothing poking out
[19:19] <SP9UOB_Tom> upu: cool :-)
[19:19] <Randomskk> eroomde: sometimes it's less than 0!
[19:19] <Randomskk> with small enough objects, adding _any_ insulation makes them lose heat quicker
[19:20] <KT5TK_QRL> Upu: is the software for the tracker already on that CD?
[19:20] <Upu> hmm ?
[19:20] <SP9UOB_Tom> KT5TK_QRL: LOL :-)
[19:20] <KT5TK_QRL> At least it looks like a CD
[19:20] <Upu> well yes :)
[19:20] <Upu> its a PCB honest
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[19:20] <Upu> just a backup tracker thats very quick to deply
[19:21] <KT5TK_QRL> very nice in deed.
[19:21] <Upu> I found these wonderful Keystone AA battery clips (metal)
[19:21] <Upu> with locking clips
[19:21] <Upu> really nice quality
[19:21] <KT5TK_QRL> It has a RF22b "slot"
[19:22] <Upu> yeah
[19:22] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: did You found smaller than AAA 1.5V battery ?
[19:22] <Upu> They are still making it
[19:22] <Upu> no I never looked , is there much point going sub AAA ?
[19:22] <Upu> AAA with power saving can do 18 hours on the 1.8v boards
[19:23] <eroomde> Randomskk: http://almamater.xkcd.com/best.csv
[19:23] <eroomde> cam.ac.uk -> ac.uk ?
[19:23] <Randomskk> eroomde: I know D:
[19:23] <Randomskk> yea
[19:23] <Randomskk> looks like someone submitted as ac.uk
[19:23] <Randomskk> so collapsed them all
[19:23] <Randomskk> but also
[19:23] <Randomskk> he's allowed any resolving domain it seems
[19:23] <Randomskk> hence all the .coms
[19:23] <Randomskk> including a load of porny ones
[19:23] <Randomskk> and like nsa.gov and xkcd.com and other stupid things
[19:23] <Randomskk> cry
[19:23] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: i know, but AAA are heavy ;-)
[19:23] <Randomskk> the only redeeming thing is that apparently a 392-bit-error code hasn't yet been distributed
[19:23] <eroomde> oh yes
[19:23] <Randomskk> so mine is still special
[19:23] <Randomskk> but I can no longer execute plan move-oxford-to-bottom-of-the-list
[19:24] <Randomskk> (by bumping everyone except oxford to 392)
[19:24] K9JKM (~chatzilla@c-67-184-171-11.hsd1.il.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: I'm getting tired of holding my nose in the election booth
[19:24] <Upu> SP9UOB_Tom you can do a tracker all in with an AA for 25g :)
[19:24] <fsphil> everytime I see the Pixar logo animation, I keep hoping the I will spring back and finally get revenge on the lamp for squishing it
[19:24] <nigelvh> Haha
[19:24] <Upu> sorry
[19:24] <Upu> 26.98
[19:24] <Upu> https://plus.google.com/photos/118244444241111963790/albums/5851582788244965537/5851585722867601330?banner=pwa
[19:24] <Upu> fatty
[19:25] <Upu> only because I added the battery connectors
[19:25] <nigelvh> fsphil, My fiance and I are planning a Pixar themed wedding.
[19:25] <fsphil> oh wow
[19:25] <fsphil> take many pictures :)
[19:25] <Upu> lol indeed
[19:25] <Upu> lots of anglepoise lamps ? :)
[19:25] <nigelvh> Wall-E and eva space cake, "To infinity and beyond..." on the invitations. etc.
[19:27] <SP9UOB_Tom> im really must but some silverfoil balloons :-)
[19:27] <nigelvh> I'm really looking forward to that cake. lemon poppyseed with lemon creme
[19:28] <nigelvh> Mmmmmmmmm
[19:28] <Upu> btw http://www.bosch-sensortec.com/homepage/products_3/environmental_sensors_1/bmp180_1/bmp180
[19:28] <Upu> BMP085 eol
[19:29] <Upu> 300hPa is 10km I think
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[19:32] <costyn> Upu: looks nice
[19:32] <KT5TK_QRL> That's the same spec as BMP085. But the old one went further down
[19:32] <Upu> yep
[19:32] <Upu> cheers for the mail btw
[19:32] <KT5TK_QRL> in practice
[19:32] <costyn> how do they recon you can use it for indoor navigation?
[19:33] <cuddykid> hm, what freq can the rfm be adjusted up to? Going to fly 2 on 1 flight (1 is on 434.33) so wondering what is a 'safe' freq to set the other one on
[19:33] <Upu> 434.500 ?
[19:33] <Upu> anything really
[19:33] <fsphil> 434.350?
[19:34] <cuddykid> ah ok, brill :) thanks
[19:34] <Upu> I tend to go in 25khz
[19:34] <fsphil> it shouldn't drift that much unless you have no insulation
[19:34] <Upu> yeah RFM22B's are great insulation detectors
[19:34] <Upu> lack of
[19:34] <cuddykid> :P
[19:34] <Upu> Mitch assures me we'll have a quote for the PCBs "this evening"
[19:34] <Upu> its 3am in China
[19:35] <eroomde> wow
[19:35] <eroomde> he really needs to automate
[19:35] <KT5TK_QRL> Upu Which PCB?
[19:36] <Upu> I have 5 on order with him atm
[19:37] <cuddykid> Upu: no probs, chased the people up again and still haven't got back!
[19:37] <Upu> HABAmp V2 : http://i.imgur.com/UX4rPn6.png
[19:37] <Upu> yeah fsphil you can have one that does 868Mhz
[19:38] <costyn> Upu: nice... with the jumpers you could even change the filter remotely if you hook it up to a uC
[19:38] <costyn> wait
[19:38] <costyn> I'm an idiot
[19:38] <Upu> the jumpers only control how its powered :)
[19:38] <costyn> nevermind
[19:39] <costyn> skip disregard that brainfart plz
[19:39] <Upu> lol
[19:39] Action: costyn cowers in a corner
[19:39] <costyn> that was wishful thinking
[19:39] <Upu> yeah its a physical swap of the SAW
[19:40] <number10> nice pic-o tracker SP9UOB_Tom
[19:40] <craag> Theoretically couldn't you put the 434,868 SAWs in parallel, and just rely on the rtl-sdr frontend to filter out the other option?
[19:41] <eroomde> that still lowers your SNR
[19:41] <eroomde> which ever filter you're not using is pure N
[19:41] <Upu> we moved the amp before the SAW
[19:42] <chrisstubbs> its alive... http://imgur.com/JVl2Px1
[19:42] <eroomde> as in: antenna->amp->saw->rtl-sdr?
[19:42] <Upu> oh is this what you were letting willdude123 play with remotely
[19:43] <Upu> yes eroomde
[19:43] <Upu> old one was saw -> amp
[19:43] <craag> eroomde: true, but still a great improvement over no filter at all, and the ism bands are remarkably quiet compared to the rest of the spectrum here.
[19:43] <chrisstubbs> yeah :) rewrote the software in vb.net and added some webcam streams :)
[19:43] <Upu> there was a reason for that though
[19:43] <eroomde> why the switch?
[19:44] <Upu> reduces the noise factgor
[19:44] <Upu> to 0.75db
[19:44] <Upu> Darkside originally designed it for automotive use where antennas were close together, if something close keyed up the amp over loads
[19:45] <craag> Upu: Swapping them round was recommended to me a while back, that particular amp is not easily overloaded.
[19:45] <Upu> however most people seem to be using them at stationary locations where this isn't an issue
[19:45] <Upu> well fixed anyway
[19:46] <Upu> the main reason I redesigned it if you look closely is the support for 1090Mhz
[19:46] <costyn> speaking of keys, my car fob didn't work the other day when I had my live 70cm payload in the car with me hehe..
[19:46] <eroomde> which amp is it?
[19:46] <Upu> Minicircuits one
[19:47] <eroomde> does it have a part number?
[19:47] <Upu> ofc 1 sec
[19:48] <Upu> PSA4-5043+
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[19:53] <KT5TK_QRL> Upu is there a drop in SAW that could do 145 MHz?
[19:53] <Upu> checking
[19:54] <KT5TK_QRL> I ish I had one for http://websdr.tkrahn.com:8901
[19:54] <KT5TK_QRL> wish
[19:54] <Upu> http://www.golledge.com/pdf/products/saw/gsrf.pdf
[19:54] <Upu> nothing centered on 145
[19:54] <Upu> 147
[19:55] <Upu> with a bandwidth of 8Mhz
[19:55] <KT5TK_QRL> That might work.
[19:55] <KT5TK_QRL> Is it pin compatible?
[19:56] <Upu> http://www.golledge.com/pdf/products/specs/ma05175.pdf
[19:56] <Upu> nope
[19:57] <KT5TK_QRL> :(
[19:57] <Upu> You can have the eagle files if you want to mod it
[19:58] <KT5TK_QRL> Might be the way to go.
[19:58] <Upu> do you have dropbox ?
[19:59] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, but didn't use it for a long time.
[19:59] <mfa298> as craag was saying being able to have two saw filters in parallel could be useful for dual band options. Although as 868 is only the 2nd harmonic of 434 I'm wondering how easily you could do a dual band antenna (now trying to remember the antenna theory from doing the RAE)
[19:59] <KT5TK_QRL> I'll have to check my credentials
[20:00] <Upu> pm me the mail address you use
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[20:03] <SP9UOB_Tom> the pico is online :-) $$SP9UOB,4,20:02:47,5016.64279,01839.23862,273,1,0,4,144,0,0b*91C4
[20:05] <willdude123> Good Evening.
[20:05] <craag> mfa298: A white-stick antenna should work ok on 868 I think, but I was thinking it would be cheaper than 2x habamps, and less kit in all! :)
[20:06] <craag> Interesting though that most of my 868 rx problems were frontend overload more than anything else.
[20:06] UpuWork (~UpuWork@2a02:b80:12:1:191:db39:49b:e2da) joined #highaltitude.
[20:07] <mfa298> it's certainly worth a try with various antennas to see what works, and I'd agree with the less kit
[20:07] <craag> mfa298: The real antenna fun will come when my 40MHz phase-programmable DDS arrives.
[20:08] <craag> Did you say you had an FCD now?
[20:08] <mfa298> for 434/868 I'd be tempted to try a long wire (which doesn't need to be too long for that) and a variable cap as a basic tuner style arrangement.
[20:09] <mfa298> craag: I do (and the MVT-7100)
[20:10] <willdude123> chrisstubbs: Can I have a go at the Arm with the new software?
[20:10] <craag> I used a 3/4 wave 868 whip on the car that seemed to work v well for chase. That'd probably be perfectly adequate for 434 LOS.
[20:10] <craag> But if you're chasing, you can probably afford to swap for a correct antenna :P
[20:12] Action: craag should probably try an 868 receiver poll, see how many around there are.
[20:12] <craag> fsphil: When are you planning your 868 flight?
[20:12] <mfa298> 3/4 for 868 might work, reasonably as a dual band (trying to work the numbers)
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[20:15] <craag> It'd be a slightly long 1/4 wave for 434, probably not enough to screw with the directionality, so with los it'd probably be fine.
[20:16] <gonzo__> the double freq could make it difficult to make a dual band 434 and 868 antenna
[20:16] <gonzo__> 3x freq is doable
[20:17] <craag> gonzo__: Yep! It would be good to see how well the hab-standard colinear works.
[20:18] <gonzo__> would be much better to make a proper tuned ant
[20:19] <craag> Oh yeah, but most people won't want to put up an extra antenna at home :P
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[20:20] <craag> gonzo__: Do you have 868MHz rx capability?
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[20:20] <mfa298> I can also see with the likes of the FCD being able to have one ant + habamp + FCD that work reasonably well will help dual band payloads if your struggling to decode.
[20:20] <gonzo__> a std 1/4 wave at 434 will be 1/2wave at 868. That will change from a 35R to about 1000r. Which is a hell of a mismatch
[20:21] <gonzo__> similraly mismatches will peobably occur in a colinear
[20:22] <mfa298> gonzo__: that's what I was thinking with the original idea
[20:22] <craag> yep, it's an annoying frequency tbh.
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[20:23] <gonzo__> a colinear with an 868meg habamp in a bit of plastic pipe would be pretty minimal size
[20:24] <craag> That would be quite nice, and work well with the bias tee in the fcd :)
[20:24] <mfa298> I'm interested in craag's idea of 3/4 on 868 and see how well it works for 434.
[20:24] <gonzo__> and as it will be an rx ant in most cases (no need to use it as an AR tx ant), there is no need for expensive cables
[20:24] <gonzo__> some sat TV cable is fine (and what UI use)
[20:26] <craag> Well hopefully I'll have a fizzle flight soon when finding 3G is easier than squeezing blood from a stone, and I can sit still and play with aerials :)
[20:28] <craag> At the launch site last time though, any antenna plugged into the FCD was causing frontend overload and no decodes, even with LNA gain at 0dB and the payload laying on the ground 20m away!
[20:28] <gonzo__> what was the RX?
[20:29] <craag> funcube pro plus
[20:29] <mfa298> if it's not too long a run of cable even rg58 might be reasonable with a habamp,
[20:29] <Upu> I can make a test 868Mhz mdule for you to play with at some point
[20:31] <craag> Upu: That would be great :D
[20:32] <craag> Upu: I found the problem with the rfm22 that caused it to cut out last time.
[20:33] <Upu> pull down ?
[20:33] <craag> It helps if you actually assert the SDN pin, not the pin next to it..
[20:33] <Upu> yes that too
[20:33] <craag> no pull-down, nothing, SDN was floating..!
[20:33] <fsphil> craag: was hoping last month, gonna try again in May
[20:33] <Upu> thats not going to end well
[20:34] <craag> Upu: No issues on the ground! But I guess some threshold characteristics changed at ~20km.
[20:34] <Upu> temp :)
[20:34] <craag> I won't be making that mistake again... :(
[20:34] <Upu> postive the caps are only rated for -10
[20:34] <craag> indeed
[20:34] <Upu> I have a design anyway
[20:35] <craag> I only had -2 internal temp, with -50 external according to ALPHA.
[20:35] <Upu> using Si4464
[20:35] <Upu> but I can select the components
[20:35] <Upu> and TCXO
[20:35] <craag> Oh yeah, based on KT5TK's?
[20:35] <Upu> a little yes his runs at 2 meters
[20:35] <craag> mm
[20:36] <craag> Cool! TCXO should help.
[20:36] <Upu> possibly using navrac's idea so we can look at other modes
[20:36] <Upu> but keeping it as simple as I can initially
[20:36] <craag> Sounds great!
[20:37] <Upu> loads of ideas in my head
[20:37] <Upu> we can switch in a habamp for RX work in the air
[20:37] <craag> I've got a HF DDS chip arriving soon, so I'll be playing with n-psk on 27MHz.
[20:37] <willdude123> Upu: Do you have an idea of what I'll need to purchase for the receiver yet?
[20:38] <Upu> yeah willdude123
[20:38] <Upu> nothing
[20:38] <Upu> I made you a 1/4 wave this evening
[20:38] <Upu> you'll jus have to screw it together
[20:38] <craag> Upu: Ah nice! Would be good to have sensitive rx for uplink.
[20:39] <Upu> dual band with switch in PA for APRS
[20:39] <Upu> etc etc
[20:39] <craag> oo
[20:39] <Upu> I have many ideas
[20:39] <Upu> but one step at a time
[20:39] <willdude123> Upu: Great. Thanks very much"
[20:40] <craag> Upu: Saw this on fb, do you know the guy behind it? https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151427617198229
[20:41] <craag> Looks v compact for 2x TX!
[20:41] <Upu> interesting
[20:41] <Upu> not seen that one before
[20:41] <willdude123> This looks interesting: http://rockblock.rock7mobile.com/
[20:41] <Upu> yeah we have one of those willdude123
[20:41] <craag> I tried replying to his post, but he hasn't got back to me yet.
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[20:42] <Upu> be interested to see if he came up with that himself or he got some ideas
[20:42] <Upu> pair of TPS62100's
[20:42] <Upu> wonder what radio he has
[20:42] <Upu> willdude123 http://imgur.com/RLy04Ql
[20:43] <craag> I'm guessing there's an NTX module underneath by the width
[20:43] <Upu> not soldered the main element
[20:43] M0NSA (~HeliosFA@requiem.soton.gia-lan.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[20:43] <Upu> HX1
[20:43] netsoundWW (~netsound@2001:470:c074:1001:3cd9:b32b:1a15:9133) joined #highaltitude.
[20:43] <craag> *radiometrix module
[20:43] <craag> yeah
[20:43] <Upu> RTTY
[20:43] <Upu> hmm
[20:43] <Upu> thats just a Micronut
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[20:44] <willdude123> Would one of those rockblock things work on a high altitude balloon?
[20:44] <Upu> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/MicroAPRS.jpg
[20:45] <Upu> wait
[20:45] <willdude123> Upu: pm
[20:45] <Upu> its got an RFm22B on it as well
[20:45] <Upu> the HX1 is on top of the RFM22B
[20:46] <craag> Ah, ok, nothing new then.
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[20:46] <craag> I wondered if it was an Si4464 design or similar
[20:47] <Upu> its got a HX1 on there
[20:47] <Upu> what the 70cms is using not sure
[20:47] <chrisstubbs> Upu heres a question thats been bugging me for a while. Why do you sell the MAX6 isntead of the NEO6?
[20:47] <Upu> wait
[20:47] <willdude123> chrisstubbs: How's the robot arm?
[20:47] <Upu> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/1.jpg
[20:47] <Upu> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/2.jpg
[20:48] <Upu> must be someone I've spoken too as I have some pics
[20:48] <craag> Huh, there we go. I thought you might have :)
[20:48] <Upu> chrisstubbs its smaller
[20:49] <fsphil> I've a spair neo6 if you're after one :)
[20:49] <Upu> and similar in functionality
[20:49] <chrisstubbs> ah fair enough :)
[20:49] <fsphil> spare*
[20:49] <Upu> we used to use the NEO
[20:49] <Upu> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_0298.JPG
[20:50] <Upu> he's Australian craag I think
[20:50] <KT5TK_QRL> 145.175 sounds like Aus
[20:50] <Upu> also there is no 1.8v NEO if I recall
[20:51] <Upu> yeah
[20:51] Lunar_Lander (~gd-compto@p54888FAF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:51] <Upu> evening Lunar
[20:52] <daveake> Bit late this evening Lunar; did you forget to put your clock forward? :)
[20:52] <KT5TK_QRL> http://www.qrz.com/db/VK3YT
[20:53] <KT5TK_QRL> His call is on the PCB
[20:54] <craag> KT5TK_QRL: so it is :)
[20:54] <Upu> thats it
[20:54] <Upu> Yes its not the guy who's facebook its on
[20:54] <Upu> he's been on here
[20:54] <Upu> willdude123 daveake flew one of those Rockblocks
[20:54] <Upu> its somewhere in the English Channel if you want to go find it
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> no, I was ill today
[20:55] <SP9UOB_Tom> night all
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> night SP9UOB_Tom
[20:55] <Upu> night Tom
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[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> how were your days?
[20:57] <Upu> not really sure about resting the HX1 on the GPS module like that
[20:57] <Upu> probably won't be an issue I guess
[20:57] <Upu> good Lunar are you better now ?
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> yes, thanks
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> just applied for the lake constance balloon launch payload slot
[21:00] <Upu> whens that for ?
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> with just one hour remaining in the competiton
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> end of June on the HAM RADIO
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> they offer two 150g payloads, one for like schools and one for advanced people
[21:05] <Upu> ok
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> so you'll get a GPS order :)
[21:05] <Upu> jolly good :)
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:06] <willdude123> Upu: It didn't work I take it.
[21:07] <Upu> it did to a point
[21:07] <Upu> needs further work
[21:08] <willdude123> When did it cut out?
[21:08] <willdude123> Did he just decide not to get it because it was in the sea?
[21:08] <Upu> 10km on the way down
[21:08] <Upu> annoyingly as it would have transmitted whilst floating
[21:09] <Upu> and we may have found it
[21:09] <Upu> we got a boat but it was getting dark
[21:10] <willdude123> Have any light pico payloads done SSDV?
[21:11] <willdude123> daveake's PIE5 is really light apparently.
[21:12] <fsphil> my last one was 150g I think
[21:12] <fsphil> I really should start recording values
[21:13] <willdude123> What is the highest photo taken from a HAB?
[21:14] <daveake> ANU-2 - 42545m (139582 ft) Highest Images
[21:14] <fsphil> llooooong way up
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[21:16] <willdude123> Can I see them?
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[21:16] <fsphil> secret
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> the lake constance balloon had like a label on the payload
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> something like an RF warning
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> why do you think you'd need that?
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> something like an 1 W TX isn't dangerous?
[21:17] <willdude123> I'll google it.
[21:19] <willdude123> I want to become a hamlet. The equipment is quite expensive though and it sometimes involves speaking to other people, so I probably won't be allowed to do it.
[21:19] <fsphil> I don't speak to people on radio, I use digital modes :)
[21:19] <fsphil> me and microphones don't get on well
[21:21] <willdude123> Like PSK?
[21:22] <fsphil> yea
[21:22] <mfa298> willdude123: people do lots of things with amateur radio. I've been licensed for a number of years and used it for very little talking to people.
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> hamlet, king of denmark?
[21:22] <willdude123> I think I have just written the best twitter bio that I could: I usually don't follow back, unless I care about what you do (not what you eat for dinner).
[21:22] <willdude123> Lunar_Lander: A small ham.
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:23] <fsphil> I've totally posted pictures of my dinner on twitter before :)
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:23] <Upu> you can use radio for talking to people ? interesting I'll give that a go one day
[21:23] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - HABE 7 - Thurs 04/04"
[21:23] <mfa298> Upu: apparently so.
[21:23] <Morseman> willdude123 remind me not to follow you - HI
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> I got like a phone where you can take the receiver with you
[21:24] <chrisstubbs> willdude123, fixed the robot server. XP needed a good old reboot
[21:24] <Upu> another launch
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> I think there is a radio in the receiver
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> so probably can talk to people over the waves
[21:24] <Morseman> Not talked to people via Amateur Radio for quite a while now...
[21:25] <mfa298> Recently I think I've talked to people as much via Amateur Radio involved in HAB chasing as I have for anything else.
[21:26] <griffonbot> Received email: Henry Hallam "Re: [UKHAS] Strange predictor behaviour"
[21:26] <daveake> Soon we'll need a calendar showing days where there's no launch
[21:26] <Morseman> fsphil I'm no fan of microphones either
[21:27] <Morseman> I used to go /M on 2M and 70cm but now need to make a latching PTT as most /M PTT units are not latching
[21:27] <mfa298> My standard view is that a microphone is something to put in front of someone else (as much doing audio work as radio)
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[21:52] <griffonbot> Received email: Arko "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Strange predictor behaviour"
[21:53] <S_Mark> Hi all, getting 'Expected 3-d data' as an error in fetchdatalog when running the hourly predictor on a pi, anyone know the issue off the top of their head?
[21:55] <Upu> heh
[21:55] <Upu> ping DanielRichman ---/\
[21:55] <DanielRichman> hahaha
[21:55] <DanielRichman> yeah here's the solution
[21:55] <DanielRichman> pip install Pydap==3.0.1
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[21:56] Nick change: azend_ -> azend
[21:57] <S_Mark> Haha seen this before have you, ok will give it a try now
[21:57] <Upu> about 5 mins ago
[21:58] <S_Mark> lol, not doing this on a pi too are you by chance?
[21:58] <Upu> no we are looking to move the spacenear.us tracker to a beefier server and the test one we have running on new server exhibited that error too
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[21:59] <S_Mark> Ah ok!
[21:59] <S_Mark> Any reason an older version of Pydap works and the new one doesn't?
[22:00] <S_Mark> Seems strange
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> does anyone remember the old ASTRA promo videos which ran on a special channel on the sat?
[22:00] <fsphil> they had a few Lunar_Lander
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=namjnSvTavA
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> I like the music in the satellite construction part
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> starting at 2:20
[22:07] <DanielRichman> S_Mark: presumably api breaking upgrade
[22:08] <S_Mark> Ah the old backwards compatibility. Seems to be working better so far anyway so thanks for the quick resolution lol
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[22:35] Nick change: MichaelC|Away -> MichaelC
[22:36] <craag> Considering the keyspace for this xkcd hash, wouldn't it be better to just allow each input to be posted once? It would stop all this spam :(
[22:37] <Randomskk> perhaps
[22:37] <Randomskk> the spam is terrible
[22:37] <Randomskk> how're you doing?
[22:37] <Randomskk> oh man, 398 is way down there :P
[22:37] <craag> Yeah I was excited about that 398
[22:38] <Randomskk> 398 was a really good result. this time yesterday.
[22:38] <Randomskk> know how many hashes per second you're getting?
[22:38] <craag> Only took 5 hours on the computation server.. but now the spammers have got there.
[22:38] <Randomskk> yea you want 396 or better really
[22:39] <Randomskk> I'm tempted to fire up more EC2 instances
[22:39] <craag> I didn't put anything in for counting tbh, it seemed like a good speed and it's optimised as far as I know how.
[22:39] <Randomskk> no progress output at all?
[22:39] <Randomskk> fe
[22:39] <Randomskk> written in C?
[22:40] <Randomskk> what skein implementation are you using / how are you counting the error bits?
[22:40] <craag> In C, I used a skein hash implementation that was referenced on one of the forums as being quick.
[22:41] <griffonbot> Received email: Andrew Myatt "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Proposed launch of AURA & AURA2"
[22:42] <craag> Iterates through each character of the hex, it's a bit bodged together tbh, but just me sittign here.
[22:42] <Randomskk> fair enough. how many cores?
[22:43] <craag> 2 on laptop, 4 on desktop, 24 on computation server, 32 on uni batch server, and another 32 on EC2.. :P
[22:44] <Randomskk> not bad :P
[22:44] <craag> If I can't optimise it further, just needs moar hardware!
[22:44] <Randomskk> what EC2 instance types are you running? (and how many?)
[22:44] <craag> You're not doing too badly sitting up there at 392!
[22:45] <Randomskk> 392 was lucky
[22:45] <Randomskk> 4% odds of finding that, given the number of hashes I'd done when I got it
[22:45] <Randomskk> would need more than 10x the computers to make it 50% likely to have gotten it :P
[22:46] <craag> I'm running one of the Cluster Compute 8x XL instances
[22:46] <Randomskk> oh cool
[22:46] <Randomskk> I'm using the high cpu xlarge
[22:47] <Randomskk> I guess the cluster compute is a bit better? but this doesn't really need the high interconnection speeds
[22:47] <craag> I don't think it's as cost-efficient as more smaller ones, but it was v easy to set up!
[22:47] <Randomskk> indeed
[22:47] <Randomskk> I am a bit tempted to spin up more of these c1.xl instances
[22:47] <Randomskk> but 58¢/hr adds up surprisingly fast!
[22:48] <craag> I haven't tried EC2 before, so I figured I'd splash out for a few hours and have a play :)
[22:48] <Randomskk> how're you finding it?
[22:48] <Randomskk> this is the first time I've used it in anger
[22:48] <Randomskk> only set up a micro instance briefly once before to play with the idea
[22:48] <craag> fantastically easy to use.
[22:48] <Randomskk> it's great isn't it
[22:49] <Randomskk> I wish I had the time to try setting up a server image that would boot, start computing this stuff, email good results
[22:49] <Randomskk> then I could literally just click the "deploy 100 more servers!!!" button
[22:49] <fsphil> hah
[22:49] <Randomskk> 100 of these servers would start _churning_ out results
[22:49] <Randomskk> they are pretty beefy
[22:49] <craag> I was considering adding in a git backend to update a repo, then have a github irc bot to post updates.
[22:49] <Randomskk> about 4 million hashes per second per server, so 400MH/s for 100 of them...
[22:50] <craag> But jsut decided to get it working and get churning
[22:50] <Randomskk> with 100 I'd get a 402-or-better result every 13 minutes
[22:50] <Randomskk> on average
[22:51] <Randomskk> but it would still take 93 hours to have 50% odds of finding the top place result :(
[22:51] <Randomskk> I would be surprised if anyone displaces kit.edu
[22:51] <Randomskk> short of having a huge gpgpu cluster
[22:52] <craag> my EC2 instance hasn't produced any winners yet though, all but the 398 came from my 4-year old desktop.
[22:52] <Randomskk> hehe
[22:52] <Randomskk> what's your threshold to display them?
[22:52] <Randomskk> 400?
[22:53] <craag> No, if-better-than-last-best
[22:53] <craag> So most is sitting on ~402.
[22:53] <Randomskk> oh, fair enough
[22:54] <Randomskk> ooh, got a 396
[22:54] <Randomskk> what I really want though is a 393 or 394
[22:54] <Randomskk> so I can put everyone on the table at 393 except ox.ac.uk
[22:54] <Randomskk> so they'd stay at 395 and go to the bottom of the table :P
[22:55] <craag> heh
[22:55] <Randomskk> might leave caltech where they are too, so no one can be sure if it was cam or mit
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[23:04] <craag> oh oh oh... kit is off the throne
[23:05] <Randomskk> yea!
[23:05] <Randomskk> uic AND cmu both got 388!
[23:05] <Randomskk> at suspiciously similar times
[23:05] <craag> mm
[23:05] <Randomskk> damn, the odds of me finding a 388 are even more slim
[23:05] <Randomskk> maybe uic and cmu are collaborating
[23:05] <Randomskk> adelaide.edu.au got a 392 :|
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[23:07] <JamieCH> Reading back through this conversation just makes me feel bad =( The best my laptop has done over the last ~12 hours is 415
[23:07] <Randomskk> who're you computing for?
[23:07] <Randomskk> 415 isn't bad for one laptop!
[23:08] <JamieCH> Durham, but someone else on there has beaten my 415
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[23:08] <Randomskk> 409 :(
[23:09] <fsphil> 461 :)
[23:09] <Randomskk> :P
[23:09] <fsphil> 458, woo
[23:09] <fsphil> 451
[23:09] <fsphil> this is easy ;)
[23:09] <Randomskk> keep going :P
[23:09] <Randomskk> what're you running on?
[23:10] <fsphil> ancient laptop
[23:11] <craag> oh and I grabbed a trial linode instance, just about to expire now but got to 404
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[23:12] <Randomskk> oh nice
[23:13] <craag> I tried adding some benchmarking, but it seemed to fail with my pilfered-from-tutorial-websites pthreads code.
[23:14] <craag> Either that or it's all running very slowly and I am just being extremely lucky!
[23:15] <fsphil> I've no idea if the hashes I'm calculating are even valid
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[23:20] <Randomskk> 384!
[23:20] <Randomskk> what is this madness
[23:21] <fsphil> my quad core PC is getting quite loud :)
[23:22] <Randomskk> I'm glad for my water cooling
[23:22] <Randomskk> my CPU is only at 38C
[23:22] <Randomskk> despite all 8 execution threads running at 3.9GHz 100% for the last day
[23:22] <fsphil> 438 best so far
[23:22] <craag> I wonder if someone's put together an opencl implementation..
[23:22] <craag> Someone at cmu
[23:22] <Randomskk> I suspect so
[23:23] <fsphil> be quite neat if I got Cookstown High School on the list
[23:24] <fsphil> it's amazing how quicky the program stops reporting new low scores
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[23:28] <craag> huh, maybe I should have checked my case fans before doing this, I thought the cpu fan was a bit loud.
[23:28] <craag> CPU temp 89 degrees
[23:28] <craag> case fan: 0 rpm
[23:28] <fsphil> ah, 426
[23:28] <fsphil> eep
[23:29] <fsphil> laptop getting toasty now
[23:29] Action: craag starts blowing through the side of the case.. "only a few hours to go, you can do it!"
[23:30] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> what are you discussing btw?
[23:31] <fsphil> quad core in the lead, by 1
[23:31] <craag> Lunar_Lander: http://almamater.xkcd.com/
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> I was guessing
[23:32] <craag> Trying to crack the skein hash
[23:32] <craag> By brute force
[23:32] <craag> Hence, some hot CPUs!
[23:32] <fsphil> this effort alone might be enough to break this cold spell in europe
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> how does it work?
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> first the uni domain name
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> then Data to Hash
[23:33] <fsphil> yep
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> what is supposed to go in there?
[23:34] <fsphil> the value used to get a hash close to the one listed
[23:34] <craag> The idea is to find the input that made the hash you see
[23:34] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:34] <Lunar_Lander> doesn't that take 120 years at that lenghth or so?
[23:34] <craag> Or something that outputs as close as possible
[23:34] <craag> Lunar_Lander: yep
[23:34] <fsphil> I'm 426 bits away
[23:34] <fsphil> which is quite poor :)
[23:34] <craag> Hence the competition is how close you can get.
[23:35] <craag> I'm at 398
[23:35] <craag> Randomskk is way ahead.
[23:35] <fsphil> I might hack this script to ping me when it finds something new
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> my first try was 480 I think
[23:36] <craag> Lunar_Lander: We've written programs to do it for us, trying many many hashes per second :)
[23:36] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:36] <Lunar_Lander> Saturn V is 484
[23:36] <craag> I was using ~100 cores earlier.
[23:37] <fsphil> nice
[23:37] <fsphil> got 6 processes running here atm
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> what is the sense in that
[23:37] <craag> Can't afford to run the EC2 Compute Cluster all night though :(
[23:37] <fsphil> I'm feeding the result back into the hash
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> ah damn it
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> my prime guess is at 516
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> this "correct horse battery staple"
[23:38] <fsphil> hah
[23:38] <fsphil> it might not be a string
[23:38] <fsphil> although it probably is
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> Physics Rocks! and Physics makes the world go round work neither
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think about this woman btw? http://www.prosieben.de/tv/beauty-and-the-nerd/die-beauties/beauty-julia-1.3492773/
[23:41] <fsphil> nothing found in the last 20 minutes
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> TV stinks is 499
[23:42] <craag> come on.. just a 397 to lift me out of the muck..
[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> great physicsts don't work either
[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> still would like opinions on the woman
[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:45] <craag> Lunar_Lander: We're too busy optimising our code to look at women..
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[23:54] <fsphil> totally
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[00:00] --- Wed Apr 3 2013