highaltitude.log.20130331

[00:02] <kiwi_> chrisstubbs: Does it help to write "harmless" on it? :)
[00:02] <fsphil> better than "honestly not a bomb"
[00:02] <chrisstubbs> maybe if bo,b disposal get called in
[00:02] <chrisstubbs> *bomb
[00:02] <chrisstubbs> then again terrorists could just write the same on a WMD
[00:04] <mfa298> reading a bit of scrollback, i don't know about tv but in big IT places you get tape jukeboxes for backup tapes with a robot arm to put tapes into drives.
[00:05] <kiwi_> Yeah.. would probably not deliver an atom bomb by balloon though
[00:05] <kiwi_> Or what do I know, I'm not a terrorist. Honestly ;)
[00:05] <chrisstubbs> "tape jukebox for backup" i like the sound of that machine
[00:08] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: http://business.chip.de/bii/7/5/8/9/7/7/2/d5f6c8304f407068.jpg
[00:08] <chrisstubbs> oh my
[00:09] <chrisstubbs> i hope they get really really tangled up in tape, very very often
[00:09] <Lunar_Lander> OH MAN
[00:09] <Lunar_Lander> that John on EEVBlog got a function/noise generator
[00:10] <Lunar_Lander> and someone wrote it costs 21000 Australian dollars
[00:10] <mfa298> I've heard of some of them having a habbit of dropping tapes behind the slots they should be stored in.
[00:10] <mfa298> but much better than having to have someone sit there swapping tapes all night for the backup run
[00:10] <Lunar_Lander> mfa298, yeah
[00:11] <Lunar_Lander> I think tapes are still used in computing centers quite often
[00:11] <Randomskk> gmail is all backed up to tapes, as everyone found out after they lost loads of email that time :P
[00:11] <Lunar_Lander> but I remember reading a book on nuclear magnetic resonance, came out in 1989 I think but my version was from 2005
[00:11] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[00:11] <mfa298> still used a lot for backups as they're fast and good storage for sequential writing
[00:11] <Lunar_Lander> and he wrote
[00:11] <Lunar_Lander> "computer storage can be done on tape, also magnetic discs"
[00:11] <fsphil> we got rid of our tape backups, use esata drives
[00:11] <Lunar_Lander> where in a physics lab will you find that
[00:12] <Lunar_Lander> at least at our labs, everything runs on normal PCs
[00:12] <mfa298> I wouldn't be surprised if the TV station that was mentioned earlier had a similar system if they're using magnetic tape still (probably digital rather than analogue)
[00:13] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[00:13] <Lunar_Lander> in Germany you are required by the law to record your own program
[00:13] <mfa298> For big scale stuff tape is still cheaper but you need to be backing up a lot of data and in some sort of centralised way.
[00:13] <Lunar_Lander> and store it for five years I think
[00:13] <Lunar_Lander> and the computer TV station GIGA once had like a look in the archive room
[00:13] <Lunar_Lander> everything full of cassettes
[00:14] <chrisstubbs> http://bit.ly/10c10Av jeeeez there are some nice photos on there
[00:14] <Lunar_Lander> not VHS but some other format
[00:14] <Lunar_Lander> (that was around 2005)
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[00:15] <Lunar_Lander> don't know why btw
[00:15] <Lunar_Lander> maybe that german Ofcom can come back and ask for tapes if something happens on the programs
[00:15] <bubbu> in payload weight are we factoring in weight of balloon as well?
[00:15] <Lunar_Lander> or stuff like that
[00:15] <Randomskk> bubbu: no
[00:16] <bubbu> everything including parachutes minus the balloon
[00:16] <bubbu> ?
[00:16] <Randomskk> yes
[00:16] <bubbu> parachute*
[00:16] <Randomskk> everything attached to the balloon
[00:16] <bubbu> okay, so basically I'm filling the balloon until I get the neck lift figure shown on the calculator. Once I have that neck lift, I already know I've achieved my free lift figure.
[00:17] <Randomskk> correct
[00:17] <Randomskk> assuming your payload weight is correct etc
[00:17] <bubbu> okay
[00:18] <bubbu> if I go over my free lift .. that just means I'll have a higher ascent rate.. won't negatively affect my flight?
[00:19] <Randomskk> burst sooner
[00:19] <fsphil> the balloon will burst slightly earlier
[00:19] <Randomskk> (as more gas)
[00:20] <bubbu> ah yes, i understand
[00:20] <bubbu> for my country we are restricted to 115 cubic feet
[00:20] <bubbu> anything higher means approval from the minister of transport, but that's an arm and a leg
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[00:21] <Randomskk> I bet
[00:21] <Randomskk> what country are you in?
[00:21] <fsphil> feet, arms, legs. some odd units there :)
[00:22] <bubbu> canada
[00:22] <bubbu> lol
[00:22] <fsphil> isn't it all metric there now?
[00:22] <bubbu> with the burst calculator, there is an advanced option with other fields.
[00:22] <bubbu> lol
[00:22] <bubbu> no
[00:24] <Randomskk> ignore those ;)
[00:24] <bubbu> instead of using a fishing scale, I could just fill a jug with water or something to equal the neck lift?
[00:25] <lz1dev> yep
[00:25] <fsphil> many people do just that
[00:25] <lz1dev> are there any flight on monday ?
[00:25] <lz1dev> flights*
[00:28] <bubbu> what are the advantages/disadvantages of stacking payload?
[00:30] <chrisstubbs> lz1dev none on the calendar feed
[00:32] <chrisstubbs> im off for the night, going to try and go to the bootsale in the morning and pick up some goodies
[00:32] <chrisstubbs> laters
[00:33] <fsphil> nite
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[00:39] <mfa298> bubbu: for stacked payloads (assuming you mean several payloads under a single balloon) there's a few reasons people might do it.
[00:39] <mfa298> 1) backup trackers - in case one fails
[00:40] <mfa298> 2) seperation of tasks - tracker payload, camera payload (some of the cheap cameras have been known to jam GPS)
[00:40] <mfa298> 3) adding a second payload to a balloon could be cheaper than two seperate balloons
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[00:42] <bubbu> what sorts of things jam a GPS
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[00:44] <mfa298> i think its been radio interference from some of the cheap keyring sized video cameras
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[01:35] <bubbu> hey guys, I'm putting a proposal together for a local radio club.. looking for assistance to help with tracking but I'd like to be more specific .. basically we have the onboard tracking system figured out.. but not on the ground. What should I be seeking specifically from these guys?
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[01:48] Nick change: MichaelC -> MichaelC|Sleep
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[02:32] <bubbu> Hey guys, I am looking for pictures of payload designs and housing for a class of students to examine. Anyone know where I can access a good database of photos, or perhaps someone who can send me a bunch of photos?
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[02:34] <Darkside> bubbu: hold on
[02:34] <Darkside> i have some
[02:35] <Darkside> hmm
[02:35] <Darkside> http://projecthorus.org/
[02:35] <Darkside> well if you go through the launch history theres some pics in there
[02:36] <Darkside> some more here: http://pipe2.darklomax.org/pics/2012-10-07_Horus_29/
[02:36] <bubbu> checking now
[02:37] <Darkside> hm
[02:37] <Darkside> dont have much showing the inside the payloads
[02:38] <bubbu> no probs bud, thanks for the link :) I got a few photos.
[02:39] <Darkside> np
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[06:26] <x-f> morning
[06:27] <x-f> happy Easter!
[06:28] <x-f> joyful DST!
[07:10] <eroomde> zulu felicitations!
[07:11] <eroomde> that isn;t the time
[07:11] <eroomde> oh no wait, it's BST
[07:11] <eroomde> british summer time
[07:11] <eroomde> i can see snow fro my window
[07:11] <eroomde> i do not live on or within several hundred miles of any mountains
[07:32] <eroomde> Upu: 1) tyvm! 2) Do you know if unblox are releasing any timing modules with the 7 -series?
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[07:50] <Upu> not sure I can ask
[07:51] <Upu> the NE06-t is the current one
[07:51] <Upu> or the LEA
[07:51] <Upu> I can get those I got a few for Darkside
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[08:08] <eroomde> s'ok, justw wonderinf if they were going to do one for the 7 series as 10Hz pseudoranges is a good halfway house for an IMU
[08:08] <eroomde> especially if the pseudoranges continue beyond the cocom limits
[08:08] <Upu> you can crank a 7C up to 10Mhz I think ?
[08:08] <Upu> NEO-6T isn't expensive
[08:08] <Upu> < £30 I think
[08:09] <eroomde> not the pseodoranges, i dont think
[08:09] <eroomde> i presume they're at nav-solution update rates
[08:10] <Upu> Ask Darkside he's played with them
[08:11] <eroomde> Darkside: if you have used the ublox raw features, what is the pseudorange update rate?
[08:19] <eroomde> so the RXM-RAW message is defined in the ublox7 receiver spec
[08:19] <eroomde> with the note 'only available with raw data product variant'
[08:19] <eroomde> which implies, to me at least, the something might be coming
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[08:47] <Darkside> eroomde: hrm
[08:47] <Darkside> i never used the raw data
[08:48] <eroomde> kk nvm
[08:49] <eroomde> Upu: i think mitch might enjoy that bbc film a great deal
[08:49] <Upu> if he can get it
[08:49] <Upu> I've not watched, is it a dramatisation ?
[08:50] <eroomde> yes
[08:51] <Upu> I'll give it a watch later
[08:51] <eroomde> william hurt does feyman well
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[09:41] <eroomde> arko: what news?
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[10:10] <costyn> eroomde: looks like a hairy landing spot
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[10:15] <eroomde> a mohavian haircut
[10:15] <eroomde> too tenuous i retract
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[10:23] <Geoff-G8DHE_> <eroomde> That Challenger film was quite good it made me get the Feynman write up in "'What Do You Care What Other People Think?': Further Adventures of a Curious Character" and what is probably the definitive story from Allan McDonald himself "Truth, Lies, and O-Rings"
[10:24] <eroomde> cool, let me know what you think of them. I think I might have read what do you care but haven't read the mcdonald one
[10:25] <Geoff-G8DHE_> The Feynman write up is quite short but as normal very clear, the AM one is LONG I've been reading it for a week at nights and still only 50% way through its very through but still a good read! Shout if you want to read them.
[10:25] <eroomde> i'd love to read the AM one once you've finished!
[10:26] <Geoff-G8DHE_> What format epub/mobi/azw3 ?
[10:27] <eroomde> ePUB would be great
[10:27] <Geoff-G8DHE_> I'll PM you in a mo
[10:27] <eroomde> tyvm]
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[11:15] Nick change: MichaelC|Sleep -> MichaelC
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[11:38] <M0TVU> Morning
[11:38] <M0TVU> Afternoon even
[11:38] <kiwi_> Hi
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[11:39] <M0TVU> This string is passing the dl - crc check but I can't get it to to pass the payload doc checker
[11:39] <M0TVU> M0TVU,113548,5233.737,-1153.800,7,00180*
[11:39] <M0TVU> ooops
[11:39] <M0TVU> $$M0TVU,113922,5233.737,-1153.800,7,00180*685A
[11:40] <fsphil> if you're going to use gps-style coordinates (ddmm.mmmm), the longitude needs more digits
[11:40] <fsphil> dddmm.mmmm
[11:40] <M0TVU> Is that all it is?
[11:41] <fsphil> dunno, guessing :)
[11:41] <fsphil> are you getting a specific error?
[11:41] <M0TVU> Green on dl-fldigi
[11:42] <M0TVU> Payload says - Checksum invalid or type unrecognised. Tried xor crc16-ccitt fletcher-16 fletcher-16-256
[11:42] <M0TVU> Back in a while gotta pop out
[11:42] <M0TVU> I'll ask again in a bit off for sunday lunch
[11:43] <fsphil> it's crc16-ccit
[11:43] <fsphil> +t
[11:43] <fsphil> it should detect that automatically
[11:45] <fsphil> hmm that checksum is wrong
[11:46] <fsphil> should be 1BCB
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[11:48] <fsphil> which makes the green bar in dl-fldigi a bit odd
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[12:25] <Willdude123_> High.
[12:25] <Willdude123_> *Hi
[12:25] <Willdude123_> Lol.
[12:25] <Upu> *Lo ?
[12:25] <Willdude123_> I was thinking of the channel name when I said hi.
[12:25] <Willdude123_> So I said high..
[12:25] <Willdude123_> So hi.
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[14:19] <Morseman> It's quiet on here. Anyone would think it's a holiday or something...
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[14:32] <M0TVU> Closer everyday - yet so far away - lol
[14:32] <M0TVU> My test is somewhere in Canada
[14:32] <M0TVU> A long way from Sutton Coldfield ....
[14:32] <M0TVU> Seems I have some pretty weird GPS co ords
[14:33] <daveake> -64.8 will do that
[14:33] <M0TVU> lol
[14:33] <M0TVU> It was nearly there
[14:33] <M0TVU> Closest i've come so far
[14:33] <daveake> And why the separate and strangely named "Longditude:" ?
[14:33] <M0TVU> I have no idea ....
[14:33] <M0TVU> I ran through the parser and all seemed ok
[14:33] <daveake> I suspect your payload doc does though
[14:34] <M0TVU> Yes I'm off to correct whatever rubbish I put in there
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[14:59] <M0TVU> It's getting closer to home.... A quick trip aross the atlantic and it's now in ireland - What fun!
[15:01] <fsphil> you wouldn't wanna go there, it's cold n' stuff :)
[15:06] <M0TVU> Almost there fsphil
[15:11] <M0TVU> By jibberdy I think he's cracked it..... :-)
[15:16] <fsphil> looking good
[15:16] <M0TVU> Phew! - Ok now I need to get up on a hill with it portable and see if anyone can hear it .....
[15:18] <fsphil> there's an interesting conflict in the ofcom rules. since you're transmitting with a callsign, does an ISM device become an amateur radio and covered by those rules
[15:18] <M0TVU> I'm not sure I tried to understand this myself.
[15:19] <craag> Yeah, generally using your callsign under ISM licensing is frowned upon.
[15:19] <fsphil> my own opinion is that it doesn't, as you can transmit anything over ISM - including callsigns
[15:19] <M0TVU> I agree
[15:19] <fsphil> but if I made an audio repeater with two ISM radios, what then
[15:20] <M0TVU> The only thing that ofcom could get annoyed about is always leaving the PTT on when using an amateur radio callsign
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[15:20] <M0TVU> I'm not sure fsphil - it treads a fine libe - i'll come up with a balloon call
[15:20] <fsphil> I suspect ofcom wouldn't actually care
[15:21] <M0TVU> libe?
[15:21] <M0TVU> In my experience they wouldn't know what this was anyway and it would only confuse them into making me apply for a special NOV
[15:21] <fsphil> as long as the transmittion was under 10mw
[15:21] <craag> Ofcom wouldn't, that's a fact. But you might get other Amateurs giving you a bit of grief.
[15:22] <fsphil> someone here did apply for an NoV to transmit on 144.800 from a balloon. I don't believe they ever responded
[15:22] <M0TVU> I think that's the golden bit - under 10mw I think you can get away with just about anything
[15:22] <M0TVU> lol
[15:22] <M0TVU> That doesn't suprise me one bit
[15:22] <mfa298> it probably comes down to ofcoms reading of the rules and if they want to get you if the rules aren't clear im not sure i want that battle
[15:23] <fsphil> yea as it would me on the person transmitting to prove ofcom wrong
[15:23] <fsphil> me/be
[15:23] <M0TVU> Me neither and so i'll opt for TVU.Ballon or something
[15:23] <M0TVU> Skyrider
[15:23] <M0TVU> Now that would go nicely - there's a ham radio link there
[15:23] <fsphil> Skymoose
[15:24] <mfa298> although whilst its ground based as long as you're within the beacon rules you should be fine
[15:24] <fsphil> FlyingDonkey
[15:24] <fsphil> yea next time I do a flight with the swift board, I'm going to enable aprs on the ground
[15:24] <fsphil> although there are no igates here
[15:24] <M0TVU> findme_ifyou_dare
[15:25] <fsphil> I've decided to use a different name for each flight now, rather than hadie 1 2 3 4 ..etc
[15:25] <fsphil> cause that's boring
[15:25] <M0TVU> maybe something like - byebye_camera
[15:25] <fsphil> "Splash"
[15:26] <M0TVU> I think Skyrider .... It goes well with hallicrafters
[15:26] <M0TVU> Or maybe just SX-28
[15:26] <mfa298> I'm thinking of using the goons: HFITW (He's Fallen in the Water)
[15:26] <fsphil> MERHAB
[15:28] <fsphil> so my detailed scientific experiments today have concluded, after detailed analysis and study, that you can have too much chocolate.
[15:28] <M0TVU> Well hopefully I can get it in the air should we ever get any nice weather
[15:28] <cm13g09> fsphil: agreed
[15:28] <M0TVU> agreed
[15:28] <fsphil> http://hourly.sanslogic.co.uk/ , urg
[15:29] <M0TVU> Im on a diet
[15:29] <fsphil> my notam ends today and I didn't launch again
[15:29] <M0TVU> Well im off to talk the dog out. bye for now ....
[15:29] <fsphil> good luck
[15:30] <fsphil> I think I'll have a play on HF
[15:30] <mfa298> talk the dog out, that makes it sound like a negotiation
[15:30] <fsphil> "Don't do it Puddles! It's not worth it!"
[15:31] <cm13g09> mfa298: that's not as bad as some typos I found in one document last night....
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[15:35] <oh7lzb> we've been playing HF all weekend, working multi-multi in the SSB contest.
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[15:39] <Willdude123_> Hi.
[15:40] <jonsowman> afternoon
[15:40] <Willdude123_> Anyone know how to make my VPS an IRC bouncer?
[15:40] <cm13g09> Willdude123_: I've just installed irssi on mine
[15:40] <jonsowman> a lot of people use an irc client like irssi/weechat that runs on the VPS itself
[15:40] <jonsowman> so you just connect to the VPS and use it when you need
[15:40] <cm13g09> and then ssh into the screen session
[15:41] <Willdude123_> Ah, that's a good idea.
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[15:41] <cm13g09> I assume it's a Linux-based VPS?
[15:41] <Willdude123_> I have an idea for how to get IRC at my school now.
[15:41] <Willdude123_> Yep.
[15:41] <mfa298> screen and irssi is a good option if you just want it as a way to keep a client always on
[15:41] <jonsowman> if you search the next for irssi+screen you'll find setup guides :)
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[15:41] <mfa298> altough some vps providers block IRC
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[15:41] <jonsowman> *net
[15:41] <cm13g09> Rackspace don't
[15:41] <jonsowman> linode <3
[15:42] <cm13g09> neither do Linode
[15:42] <cm13g09> Rackspace, if you ask me, is for people who have money :P
[15:42] <cm13g09> but they're still pretty epic
[15:42] <mfa298> I'm not sure any of mine block it although i think some say your not supposed to in the regs
[15:43] <Willdude123_> Does irssi use up much RAM? Only got 64/128mb RAM.
[15:43] <jonsowman> Willdude123_: hardly anything
[15:43] <mfa298> I've never checked but its unlikely to be much
[15:44] <Willdude123_> How to install on linux?
[15:44] <mfa298> it should be in your package manager
[15:44] <cm13g09> mfa298: mine's using 5MB res, 98 virt
[15:44] <mfa298> as to the commands it depends on which distro your using
[15:44] <Willdude123_> It's not in the repos.
[15:45] <cm13g09> Willdude123_: which distro?
[15:45] <Willdude123_> Ubuntu.
[15:45] <cm13g09> it IS in the repo
[15:45] <Willdude123_> Must've done it wrong.
[15:45] <cm13g09> My server is ubuntu ;)
[15:45] <Willdude123_> Is it called irssi?
[15:45] <Willdude123_> In the repos.
[15:45] <cm13g09> yeah, fairly sure it was
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[15:46] <Willdude123_> Nope, not working. Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.
[15:46] <jonsowman> it is
[15:46] <cm13g09> Willdude123_: it's in mine...
[15:46] <cm13g09> hmm
[15:46] <cm13g09> let's see
[15:46] <jonsowman> jon@helios:[~]$ apt-cache search irssi
[15:46] <jonsowman> irssi - terminal based IRC client
[15:47] <cm13g09> 12.04 is precise, yes?
[15:47] <jonsowman> yeah
[15:47] <Willdude123_> IDK.
[15:47] <cm13g09> if so, packages says it's in: http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/irssi
[15:47] <jonsowman> $ cat /etc/issue
[15:47] <Willdude123_> I don't get anything.
[15:48] <cm13g09> hmm, paste us one of the "deb" lines from /etc/apt/sources.list
[15:49] <Willdude123_> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu precise main restricted universe
[15:49] <Willdude123_> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu precise-updates main restricted universe
[15:49] <Willdude123_> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu precise-security main restricted universe multiverse
[15:49] <Willdude123_> deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu precise partner
[15:49] <Willdude123_> Sorry.
[15:50] <cm13g09> yeah
[15:50] <cm13g09> so you've got precise
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[15:50] <cm13g09> do you get anything back from "apt-cache show irssi"
[15:50] <Willdude123_> Nope I'll update the repos.
[15:51] <cm13g09> yeah
[15:51] <cm13g09> do an apt-get update first then
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[15:52] <mfa298> I've learnt the hard way to always do apt-get update first.
[15:52] <mfa298> although I solved that issue by changing to CentOS
[15:52] <cm13g09> and now you have to deal with RPMs :P
[15:53] <cm13g09> (sorry, last time I dealt with RPM was 5 years ago, and I've vowed never to touch it again, unless I have to!)
[15:53] <mfa298> having to run two commands (apt-get update and apt-get upgrade) just seems wrong
[15:53] <cm13g09> I don't
[15:53] <cm13g09> I have apt's periodically update package lists turned on
[15:54] <cm13g09> because I check my boxes with icinga for updates
[15:54] <Willdude123_> I should setup a cron job to do it every hour.
[15:54] <cm13g09> hourly's a bit much
[15:54] <cm13g09> I do it daily
[15:54] <cuddykid> 1/2 way to building my pyro cutdown modules :) drilled the holes in tubes
[15:55] <mfa298> as with all these things a lot of is comes down to what you're used to (same with vim / emacs)
[15:55] <jonsowman> unattended-upgrades
[15:55] <jonsowman> sorted.
[15:56] <cm13g09> yeah
[15:56] <Willdude123_> Screen is complicated.
[15:56] <jonsowman> there's tmux alternatively
[15:56] <cm13g09> indeed
[15:56] <mfa298> like all things useful it takes a while getting used to screen but once you've learnt it it's very useful
[15:56] <Willdude123_> How do I quit irssi.
[15:57] <mfa298> /quit
[15:58] <fsphil> screen is amazing
[15:58] <Willdude123_> irssi looks really really complicated.
[15:58] <fsphil> I ran linux for years without knowing about it, was a great day when I discovered it
[15:58] <Willdude123_> So how do I start irssi in a screen session?
[15:58] <fsphil> I could start a compile or update remotely, and disconnect from it and leave it running
[15:58] <mfa298> irssi isn't to bad once you've got used to it
[15:59] <mfa298> fsphil: screen get's even more interesting when you start using the -x option. done that a few times during upgrades as multiplayer screen (several sys admins watching the same session)
[16:00] <mfa298> Willdude123_: if you just start screen it'll start a new session
[16:00] <mfa298> then just run irssi inside that
[16:00] <Willdude123_> And to disconnect and re-attach?
[16:00] <mfa298> you might find it useful to have a .screenrc file to give you a status line at the bottom
[16:00] <mfa298> Ctrl a - d will detatch
[16:01] <Willdude123_> What's that?
[16:01] <mfa298> screen -rd will re-attach
[16:01] <mfa298> my screen session has s status line at the bottom that lists the various screens I've got open
[16:01] <mfa298> makes it obvious when you're in screen
[16:03] <jonsowman> screen -x if you wish to save typing a character :p